WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:05.519 Ask not what your country can do for you, ask 2 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:07.480 what you can do for your country. 3 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.039 Mister garbageaw tear down this wall. 4 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:15.919 It's the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and Stephen Hayward. 5 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:18.920 I'm James Lylyx. At today we talked to novelist, social commentator, 6 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:23.199 artist guy thinker Andrew Clayman about his new book A 7 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:25.960 Woman Underground. So let's have yourselves a podcast. 8 00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:29.120 And just the other day, speaker at his rally called 9 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:32.679 Puerto Rico a floating isle of garbage. Well, let me 10 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:36.280 tell you something. I don't know the Puerto rican that 11 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:39.920 I know, or Puerto Rico where I'm in my home 12 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:44.280 state of Delaware. They're good, decent, honorable people. Only garbage 13 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.240 I see floating out there is his supporters. 14 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:52.399 Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and fifteen. 15 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:57.679 I'm James Lylyx in Minneapolis, which is expecting snow that 16 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:00.000 I'm not ready for it, but bringing a sunny care 17 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.960 charmed to the rest of the podcast is Peter Robinson 18 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.359 and Stephen Hayward, who maybe, for all we know, in 19 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:09.599 Iceland or Madagascar or where do you happen to be Today's. 20 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:13.000 I'm back home in California, where we are expecting our 21 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:15.760 first reign of the season sometime in the next week. 22 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:18.879 Well, it is Halloween, and we won't talk about that 23 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:21.200 because by the time people get to this, that'll be gone. 24 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:23.200 I'm not looking forward to it, frankly, two hours of 25 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:27.480 door billing and dog barking and having to say cute 26 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:30.480 costume ol when what are you iron man? Of course. 27 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:33.840 But the other thing that will be pertinent by the 28 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:37.640 time this comes out is the election. So Peter Stephen, 29 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:41.400 it's coming down to it. Predictions more time. 30 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:42.760 I'm going. I'll tell you what. 31 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:47.879 I'm going around the neighborhood as a garbage man. Right. 32 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:51.560 It was a brilliant bit of theater too. I mean 33 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:53.560 when he's standing up there and saying, you know, they 34 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:55.519 told me to where this night looks thin, that's all 35 00:01:55.560 --> 00:02:00.000 it took. I mean, it's funny, he's having fun. Of course, 36 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:01.439 that man. 37 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:05.359 Has his faults, but he is not Hitler for goodness sake. 38 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:09.199 So I'll trot it. I'll trot out my little bit 39 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:11.159 of thinking, and then I submit it to the adjustment 40 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:12.280 by the two of you. 41 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:15.199 Polls. 42 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:17.960 It seems to me you can never really trust the magnitudes, 43 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:22.240 but you can trust the direction. And in the last 44 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:26.280 couple of weeks they've all moved in Trump's direction by 45 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:28.680 how much in one battle of ground state after another. 46 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.199 It looks to me to be within the margin of error. 47 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:35.120 It looks to be to be remaining within the margin 48 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.800 of turnout operations. I'm not an expert on this by 49 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:40.759 any means, but I've heard over and over again from 50 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:44.080 people who are are experts that the Democrats turnout operation 51 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:49.199 is just better, more seasoned, more highly organized, better funded 52 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:55.960 than the Republican turnout operation. And also, if the margins 53 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:57.639 are as tight as they seem to be, it may 54 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:02.759 well remain within the margin of shineance, particularly in Philadelphia 55 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:06.439 and Milwaukee. So do I care to make a prediction? 56 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:11.400 I do not, it feels but of course it would 57 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.400 feel this way to me because I have certain hopes 58 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.639 I incline in this election. It feels to me as 59 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:22.400 though the man having fun is Donald Trump. It feels 60 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.520 to me as though the candidate behaving as though it 61 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:28.520 sees option options opening out in front of it. In 62 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:31.520 these last few days is the campaign of Donald Trump. 63 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.280 He's added a stop in New Mexico, which nobody thought 64 00:03:35.319 --> 00:03:38.479 was in play until about seventy two hours ago, and 65 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:41.680 he seems to have added a stop in Virginia. Now, 66 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.280 whether that's really in play or just close enough to 67 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.919 enable him to mess with people's minds, I don't know. 68 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:53.759 But the movement, the fun, and the daring moves all 69 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:55.879 seem to be taking place on his side. 70 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.560 Steve James, Well, I've always had a theory that the 71 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:01.879 camp pain it's having the most fun is usually the 72 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:04.680 winning campaign. That goes back to Reagan in nineteen eighty. 73 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:07.479 You remember Reagan used to get on his campaign plane, 74 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:10.120 he'd changed into a pair of sweatpants, and then as 75 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:12.439 the plane was taking off, he would roll an orange 76 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:18.439 down the aisle. This became kind of a you know, 77 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:20.759 fun thing for the press, Corn in the back and 78 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:22.879 all the rest of that. And and the campaign where 79 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:27.920 you're hearing rumors of backbiting and and you know, a 80 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:30.560 turmoil and trouble. That's always the losing campaign. That was 81 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.120 Bush in ninety two, for example. And you hear that 82 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:36.120 from the Harris campaign. Now, so look, I think Trump's 83 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:39.800 gonna win. I think it's possible he wins comfortably. And 84 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:42.360 here's there are two problems though, at least two problems, 85 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:47.480 leaving aside the cheating problem. One is that my hunch 86 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.399 is that the polls are going to be maybe not 87 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:52.680 as wrong as they were the last two cycles around, 88 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:57.199 but still under rating Trump's strength. Even if the error 89 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.759 on Trump's strength is half what it was last elections, 90 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:02.600 that still means he wins by a point and a 91 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:05.519 half in the national vote and in the swing states. 92 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.360 What makes me what's odd about this, since I do 93 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:11.279 follow polling way more than any sensible human should, is 94 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:13.120 all the polsters. 95 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:14.800 Saying, boy, we're working really hard. 96 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.160 To correct our under our undersampling and our underestimation of 97 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:20.480 Trump in the past, and yet all the major polls 98 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:23.439 are converging around the same point. I would expect more 99 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:26.639 variance in all the leading polls if the posters are 100 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:29.560 experimenting and trying to figure out ways to make up 101 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:32.759 with their defects instead of clustering together. And I think 102 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:34.800 that's no one wants to break from the pack, except 103 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:36.879 I will mention Peter, I know you were traveling. You 104 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.560 may have missed this. CNN had to pull out midweek 105 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:42.279 that had very good news for Kamala Harris. It's a 106 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.879 real outlier after By the way, the last CNN poll 107 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:47.839 that I remember was good news for Trump. So that's 108 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:49.920 a weird one, and we'll just have to pay attention 109 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:53.639 to that. But the other problem is, you know, early 110 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:56.759 voting started slowly and then has gone gangbusters the last 111 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.160 two three weeks. I think maybe it's now up to 112 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.720 like fifty million votes. One of the things I wish 113 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:03.800 we knew is how many of those people had second 114 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:05.959 thoughts after they cast an early vote. So here you 115 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.040 have all this business with garbage people and Puerto Rico 116 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.240 and all this crazy stuff at the end. And you know, 117 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.360 one of the arguments against early voting, aside from potential 118 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:17.560 fraud and so forth, is that you don't have the 119 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.839 late breaking information we're not all expressing. I'm an old 120 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:24.399 believer in the view that election day should be a 121 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:28.000 collective expression at a single point in time of almost 122 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:30.160 the entire electorate, and we don't have that now we 123 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.560 have election month, and I think that's a real civic problem. 124 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:36.160 So it's going to be interesting if we ever find 125 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.519 out the extent to which the early vote, which has 126 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:42.480 favored Republicans more this year than in the past, differs 127 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.759 substantially from the election day in person vote. One final 128 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.639 point about turnout. So here's the thing to think about, Peter, 129 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:52.240 And I've got to think Democrats are paranoid right now. 130 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:55.480 Their turnout operation has always been great. But who have 131 00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:01.160 they targeted for maximum votes? Well, labor union members groups 132 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.000 where Trump is picking off large numbers of people. So 133 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.079 if I'm a Democratic operative right now, I'm terribly worried 134 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:09.439 that my turnout operation is going to turn out the 135 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:10.759 margin of victory for Trump. 136 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:12.920 And wouldn't that be fun? 137 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:13.759 Oh? 138 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:16.480 That would be So I guess I see what you 139 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:20.399 think of this. If we did a kind of probability dispersion, 140 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:26.360 I'd say three chances in five that Trump loses the 141 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:30.639 popular vote but wins in the electoral college, one chance 142 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:35.199 in five that kamalo ekes out a narrow victory, but 143 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:37.800 also about one chance in five that Trump wins the 144 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:42.199 popular vote and the electoral college, and that this whole 145 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.000 thing breaks in his way in his direction over the 146 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.199 next few days, and that he wins by three or 147 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:52.800 four points and it's just a solid, unambiguous victory. And that, honestly, 148 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:55.639 of course, is what I'm hoping for, because the backbiting, 149 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.639 the agony the lawsuits, the incriminations that we now know 150 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.720 can go on for more months when we get a 151 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.160 mixed result. Anyway, it just seems to me, four out 152 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.439 of five in my little personal probability dispersion, four out 153 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:10.399 of five chances Trump wins in one way or another, 154 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:12.920 and about one in five that he wins pretty let's 155 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:16.120 put it this way, unambiguously decisively. Does that sound right 156 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:16.600 to you, guys? 157 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:17.759 Yeah, I think it's right. 158 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:22.240 The remote possibility that Trump wins the popular vote but 159 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.399 loses the electoral college, and you can game out the 160 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:27.040 states to get that outcome. But what it will mean 161 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:29.920 that no one has recognized is that in a lot 162 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:33.559 of blue states, democratic support has eroteed substantially. 163 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:35.320 That's the only way Trump would get so. 164 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.960 In other words, instead of instead of Harris winning New 165 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:41.240 York by twenty three points as Biden did four years ago, 166 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.200 she only wins it by ten. And that kind of 167 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:46.919 erosion democratic support would be an interesting thing. If you 168 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:48.879 have fluke like that, that happens, and of course watch 169 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.639 everybody switch sides and suddenly Democrats will love the electoral college, 170 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:53.600 which will. 171 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:57.120 Be and he is he is piling up. It's a 172 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:59.120 ridiculous term, but they seem to be using it. He's 173 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.919 piling up excess are unnecessary votes. He's up by ten 174 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:05.360 in Florida, up by seven in Texas, up by nine 175 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:08.159 in Ohio. Those are millions more votes, so to speak, 176 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:11.480 than he needs. So who knows. 177 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:13.799 I don't know what late information could come to somebody 178 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.440 who'd already cast their vote, Like the garbage thing, for example. 179 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.279 I mean, wouldn't be any news to somebody to believe 180 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:22.039 that the other side of the party believes that people 181 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.120 who hold a particular set of ideas are garbage. They 182 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.720 just haven't said it before, but they certainly implied it. 183 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:29.960 You're right about the feeling, Peter. But the last time 184 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:34.440 I had a feeling like this was Mitt Romney. Everything 185 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:37.399 everything that's true, true, everything is coming up Mitt at 186 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.960 the end. And I just remember how surprised we were 187 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.759 on election nine. I don't really follow the polls very much. 188 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.879 I've been doing things Roman style. I got up today, 189 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:49.679 I got out my auspice Rod. I divided the sky 190 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:55.480 into four into four quadrants, and then the birds flew 191 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:58.480 through the upper right hand quadrant, which I believe foretels 192 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:05.440 well for Trump. Now the garbage comment was interesting because 193 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.799 it goes back to I mean, never mind what wood 194 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:10.720 Biden said. What I find fascinating about it is the 195 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.679 is the desire to wish out of the ether an 196 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:18.279 apostrophe that has been pursued by many people in the media. 197 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:23.080 He didn't say garbage supporters, he's garbage supporter apostrophe s 198 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:26.240 and people have gone over this, like the audio Zapruder tape, 199 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:29.200 trying to find the gap into which they can insert 200 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:35.120 that little kernel of an apostrophe. When you see everybody 201 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.600 in the you know, the usual suspects doing this, it 202 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:40.639 reminds you of what the Washington Post is going through. 203 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:44.960 The Washington Post declined to endorse anybody, and the reasons 204 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:47.360 for that can vary when we can discuss that, putting 205 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.159 them in the same category as the La Times in 206 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:51.840 the USA today and the newspaper for which I work, 207 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:54.720 by the way, and this has resulted apparently in a 208 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.600 quarter million canceled subscriptions, because apparently people believe it is 209 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.320 the duty and purpose of a news paper to be 210 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:07.399 forthright in who they stand for as a matter of 211 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:11.120 the entire paper's reputation. That's the thing that's interesting to 212 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:12.720 me is these people are not just saying, well, it's 213 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:16.600 the editorial board. Everybody knows that that's separate intellectually and 214 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:19.080 technically and all the rest from the rest of the paper. 215 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:21.320 But no, they seem to be giving the game away. 216 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:24.799 Is saying, our paper as a whole must stand on 217 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.320 the side of right or we're going to resign. Well, 218 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.679 take an extra week off, you know with medical medical pay. 219 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.759 And Bezos has said to the people, look, you got 220 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:36.919 to start hiring conservatives. And he's not saying this, as 221 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.480 I understand, is saying the editorial board has to hire 222 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:42.200 these people. What he is saying, and I think correctly, 223 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:45.039 is that the general population of the paper has to 224 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.000 become more ideological diverse. Now, I don't know how you 225 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.320 do that when you're hiring people. Sometimes you can do 226 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:51.879 a wink and a nod. Where do you come from, 227 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:53.840 what school did you go to? Stuff like that, or 228 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:55.480 just read their social media and the rest of it. 229 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:57.279 And I don't know how you can say that we're 230 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.120 going to have these people and then not expect them 231 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:02.600 to uphold abjective standards. But he is correct. When you 232 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.519 have a monoculture in a newsroom, you just simply you 233 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:08.360 don't have anybody to say. But that's not what the 234 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.639 other side thinks. That's not what the other side is 235 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.200 concerned about. You have people who listen to National Public 236 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:16.919 Radio and read the New York Times in the Washington 237 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:19.320 Post and exist in an ideological bubble, and there are 238 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:23.080 no venn diagrams bursting their way into say, actually, there 239 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.759 is another take on this. So they're always surprised, for example, 240 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:28.480 when Trump wins. I mean, when Trump won last time, 241 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:30.480 I had people coming up to me in the office 242 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:31.960 because they knew that I was on the right side 243 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:37.080 of things, and they were genuinely, genuinely christfallen that they 244 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.000 couldn't see it coming. And the paper made a concerted 245 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.919 effort to get out there and talk to people that 246 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.960 they'd sort of cast to the wilderness of the political 247 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:46.840 and cultural world. 248 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:51.759 You know, I still have in my file somewhere the 249 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.799 Washington Post editorial right after the nineteen eighty election with 250 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.480 Reagan's first landslide, and it said, gosh, there must have 251 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:00.480 been something going on out there in the country that 252 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.840 we just did not perceive. Flash forward to twenty sixteen, 253 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:08.200 the Post ran almost the identical editorial. It was hilarious 254 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.679 talk about learning nothing on the intervening time. Look, I 255 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.440 think a couple things quickly. One is, there's a quote 256 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.559 going around from New York Magazine attributed to a senior 257 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:20.639 media executive. They don't name the person, saying it's pretty 258 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.799 clear that if half the country thinks Trump's qualified to 259 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.279 be president, they're not reading the media, the mainstream media anymore. 260 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:30.000 It's like newsflash to the news business. The other one is, 261 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.799 what is Joe Rogan's interview with Trump is now up 262 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:38.759 to something like forty five million views, and by coincidence, 263 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.879 the New York Times comes out with a story today 264 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.440 that they've been investigating for a few weeks saying YouTube 265 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:48.919 is empowering all these YouTubers like Ben Shapiro and Andrew 266 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.399 Claven's son what Spencer Claven and others. Right, you're right, 267 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.279 and they're saying and they're peddling misinformation and YouTube needs 268 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:59.039 to censor them. So you know, what you're watching is 269 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:01.440 the paranoia and panic of the failing media. I mean, 270 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:03.399 Trump was way ahead of the curve on this. Obviously, 271 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:05.399 He's absolutely right to call it fake news in the 272 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.000 failing media. And so here's a real crisis and to me, 273 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:12.120 the big question is, and I'll end here, is Bezos 274 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.039 about to become the next Elon Musk comember Musk was 275 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.440 an Obama supporting mostly liberal and who knew he was 276 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.159 going to go all the way over to where he 277 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:23.639 has landed now? And Bezos maybe he's going to follow 278 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:26.879 the same trajectory. I think the first sign you mentioned, James, 279 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.799 who they would hire, I'd say the post hire Byron 280 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.120 york As, one of your principal political reporters from the 281 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.240 Washington Examiner. That would be a sign that they're going 282 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:36.519 to change. 283 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.799 Just well, okay, well minute, our guest. Our guest happens 284 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:42.440 to know a thing or two about journalism. Let's bring 285 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.320 him in and we'll ask him about oh a few 286 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.240 things like what he's been working on lately, but possibly 287 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.960 also immediate current events of these next few days. 288 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:54.919 Why not. That's a great way of segueing into Andrew 289 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:56.960 Claven back to the podcast after an awful long time, 290 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.639 of course, host to the Andrew Claven Show, which you 291 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:00.919 could find I don't know, We'll I have a link 292 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.600 to it somewhere here on Ricochet. Andrew, welcome back, Good 293 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:04.200 to talk to you. 294 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:05.440 Hey, James, good to see it. 295 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.799 Author of A Woman Underground, which is the next book 296 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:11.480 briefly A Prices. What's it about? 297 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:14.399 It's the fourth book in the Cameron Winter series. It's 298 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.519 kind of the crucial crisis book where he has to 299 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.360 go back into his past and find out what he's 300 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:23.399 all about. So it's I think it's really one of 301 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.200 the best books in the series. I'm really happy with it. 302 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.120 Drew, could I just before we continue about your book 303 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:32.360 and your brilliant thoughts and so forth. It's come to this. 304 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:36.279 We end up booking you because Spencer was unavailable. 305 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:37.759 I know, I know that's. 306 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:40.960 Everyone does that. 307 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.159 Explain that? Explain what that feels like. 308 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:47.000 Dad, Well, you know, it's a terrible thing as you 309 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:50.080 come to the end of I think a fairly successful career, 310 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:52.879 to see your brilliant son begin a successful career of 311 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.360 his own. It's a bitter, bitter blow and I'm not 312 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:56.279 sure I'll ever get over it. 313 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:58.200 Don't you wish you'd smothered him in the crib? 314 00:15:58.679 --> 00:15:58.919 You know? 315 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.120 I sud My wife was like, eh, you know, it's 316 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:03.320 like she wouldn't go. 317 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.200 For it, Okay, So I just wanted to get that 318 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:06.759 one out of the way. 319 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:07.440 James back to you. 320 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:08.279 Sorry, I'll be tell you. 321 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.399 I'm going to say something here that I write books 322 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:15.000 myself too. We love the word, We love the story, 323 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:16.440 the plot and the things and the depth that we 324 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.480 can get to it. But if we wanted to reach 325 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.320 modern males today, the modern mails where I was being 326 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.200 told are in crisis, and they are from just about 327 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.679 any metric that you look at. Why would we write 328 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.200 a novel when we could write a game. I've been 329 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.600 reading an off I've been reading an awful lot on 330 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.240 Twitter because I follow some people who are insiders and 331 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.559 outsiders of the gaming industry and the way that it's 332 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.759 been hijacked by people who are determined to inject into 333 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:48.679 every single possible game they touch social proselytizing, which is 334 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:50.960 turning off vast swaths of the audience, which just basically 335 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.120 want to play Call of Duty and not be lectured 336 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.600 about pronouns and the rest of it. But it is 337 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.960 a ripe medium that the right has yet to read 338 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.279 the sort of get their hands around. Should we Is 339 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.640 it simply too simplistic to deal with the issues that 340 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:12.480 we think should be discussed. Would an attempt to sort 341 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.000 of make it more right friendly just result in games 342 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:17.680 that are as dead as the ones that try to 343 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.640 go leftward. What do you think about the entire medium 344 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.079 of gaming and and how we can use it to 345 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:25.079 shape the culture we want. 346 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:30.240 Well, I'm one of the rare conservative commentators who love games. 347 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.680 I've been playing them since Pong. I continue to play them, 348 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.480 although I feel that they kind of I feel they 349 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.160 kind of crested in the nineties because the innovation was 350 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:43.200 so exciting, just so exciting to watch Pong turn into 351 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:46.519 these incredibly elaborate games. Now they're kind of plateaued. But 352 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:50.240 you're absolutely right, they've been invaded by the woke. And 353 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.799 what I like about that is that means there are 354 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.079 many games that I can play with pleasure, but there 355 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.599 are now also many games that I cannot play with pleasure. 356 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.160 I can actually sit and not play the latest game 357 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.079 that I know is going to lecture me about pronouns. 358 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:05.559 And people ask me all the time if I think 359 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:07.599 that games are an art, and I think that there 360 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:12.279 are games that have in fact been artistic, the problem is, 361 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.079 just like any art, just like the novel, movies, whatever, 362 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:16.559 They're not an art if you don't treat them like 363 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:19.119 an art. If you sit there for four hours staring 364 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.039 at this thing in a darkened room, and never do 365 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.319 anything with your life that's not using games as an art. 366 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.240 But still, I think there's a lot of good stuff 367 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:29.359 that can be done. And the good thing about being 368 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:31.319 a conservative is you don't have to lecture people. You 369 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:33.799 just have to give them the experience. It's closer to 370 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.119 real life than anything that left can produce. So I mean, 371 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.319 you know you mentioned call of duty. Just fighting the 372 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:43.480 bad guys can be a conservative experience. I would like 373 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:47.000 to see fewer action women. I think I now no 374 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.079 longer will watch a movie in which a woman beats 375 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.000 up a man because I just think it's inherently dishonest, 376 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.440 and not only dishonest on the surface, but dishonest down 377 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:56.759 to the ground. And so I think I'd like to 378 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:58.960 see a lot less of that. But really, in games, 379 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:04.160 what's happening is the really shapely girls women go around 380 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.759 fighting people, and thirteen year old boys get to play 381 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.440 bounce them around. I remember the first time that what 382 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:13.559 with the tomb raider. What's her name again, I've forgot 383 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:15.680 Laura Croft, Laura Croft. I remember the first time they 384 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:17.599 made it so that her breast bounced when she jumped 385 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:19.680 up and down. I saw for about twenty minutes just 386 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.000 making her jump up and down. And that was my 387 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.960 life for a while. And I think that can be 388 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.720 very useful. But yeah, you know, listen, I'm for all 389 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:30.599 the arts. I love every new thing. I think every 390 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:32.839 I've kind of my life has been a little bit 391 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:36.160 like the like Alfred Hitchcock system, where he would denigrate 392 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.839 everything new and then use it. And that's what I've 393 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.240 tried to do. I've written a movie that was released 394 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.200 on an iPad. I've started doing podcasts when podcasts came along. 395 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.759 And I think all these things our venues of culture, 396 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:49.640 and culture is a beautiful thing. And I think it's 397 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:54.400 culture is a way we encapsulate the society and play 398 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.240 it back to itself so we can see it more objectively. 399 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.960 I do one more thing on that. It's a great 400 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.279 way of putting it. There was a game called BioShock, Yes, 401 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.319