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Speaker 1: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

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what you can do for your country.

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Speaker 2: Mister garbageaw tear down this wall.

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Speaker 3: It's the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and Stephen Hayward.

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I'm James Lylyx. At today we talked to novelist, social commentator,

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artist guy thinker Andrew Clayman about his new book A

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Woman Underground. So let's have yourselves a podcast.

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Speaker 2: And just the other day, speaker at his rally called

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Puerto Rico a floating isle of garbage. Well, let me

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tell you something. I don't know the Puerto rican that

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I know, or Puerto Rico where I'm in my home

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state of Delaware. They're good, decent, honorable people. Only garbage

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I see floating out there is his supporters.

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Speaker 3: Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and fifteen.

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I'm James Lylyx in Minneapolis, which is expecting snow that

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I'm not ready for it, but bringing a sunny care

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charmed to the rest of the podcast is Peter Robinson

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and Stephen Hayward, who maybe, for all we know, in

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Iceland or Madagascar or where do you happen to be Today's.

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Speaker 1: I'm back home in California, where we are expecting our

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first reign of the season sometime in the next week.

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Speaker 3: Well, it is Halloween, and we won't talk about that

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because by the time people get to this, that'll be gone.

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I'm not looking forward to it, frankly, two hours of

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door billing and dog barking and having to say cute

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costume ol when what are you iron man? Of course.

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But the other thing that will be pertinent by the

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time this comes out is the election. So Peter Stephen,

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it's coming down to it. Predictions more time.

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Speaker 4: I'm going. I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 5: I'm going around the neighborhood as a garbage man. Right.

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Speaker 3: It was a brilliant bit of theater too. I mean

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when he's standing up there and saying, you know, they

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told me to where this night looks thin, that's all

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it took. I mean, it's funny, he's having fun. Of course,

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that man.

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Speaker 5: Has his faults, but he is not Hitler for goodness sake.

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So I'll trot it. I'll trot out my little bit

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of thinking, and then I submit it to the adjustment

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by the two of you.

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Speaker 3: Polls.

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Speaker 5: It seems to me you can never really trust the magnitudes,

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but you can trust the direction. And in the last

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couple of weeks they've all moved in Trump's direction by

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how much in one battle of ground state after another.

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It looks to me to be within the margin of error.

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It looks to be to be remaining within the margin

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of turnout operations. I'm not an expert on this by

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any means, but I've heard over and over again from

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people who are are experts that the Democrats turnout operation

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is just better, more seasoned, more highly organized, better funded

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than the Republican turnout operation. And also, if the margins

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are as tight as they seem to be, it may

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well remain within the margin of shineance, particularly in Philadelphia

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and Milwaukee. So do I care to make a prediction?

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I do not, it feels but of course it would

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feel this way to me because I have certain hopes

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I incline in this election. It feels to me as

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though the man having fun is Donald Trump. It feels

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to me as though the candidate behaving as though it

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sees option options opening out in front of it. In

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these last few days is the campaign of Donald Trump.

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He's added a stop in New Mexico, which nobody thought

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was in play until about seventy two hours ago, and

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he seems to have added a stop in Virginia. Now,

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whether that's really in play or just close enough to

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enable him to mess with people's minds, I don't know.

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But the movement, the fun, and the daring moves all

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seem to be taking place on his side.

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Speaker 1: Steve James, Well, I've always had a theory that the

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camp pain it's having the most fun is usually the

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winning campaign. That goes back to Reagan in nineteen eighty.

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You remember Reagan used to get on his campaign plane,

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he'd changed into a pair of sweatpants, and then as

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the plane was taking off, he would roll an orange

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down the aisle. This became kind of a you know,

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fun thing for the press, Corn in the back and

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all the rest of that. And and the campaign where

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you're hearing rumors of backbiting and and you know, a

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turmoil and trouble. That's always the losing campaign. That was

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Bush in ninety two, for example. And you hear that

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from the Harris campaign. Now, so look, I think Trump's

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gonna win. I think it's possible he wins comfortably. And

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here's there are two problems though, at least two problems,

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leaving aside the cheating problem. One is that my hunch

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is that the polls are going to be maybe not

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as wrong as they were the last two cycles around,

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but still under rating Trump's strength. Even if the error

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on Trump's strength is half what it was last elections,

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that still means he wins by a point and a

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half in the national vote and in the swing states.

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What makes me what's odd about this, since I do

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follow polling way more than any sensible human should, is

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all the polsters.

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Speaker 4: Saying, boy, we're working really hard.

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Speaker 1: To correct our under our undersampling and our underestimation of

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Trump in the past, and yet all the major polls

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are converging around the same point. I would expect more

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variance in all the leading polls if the posters are

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experimenting and trying to figure out ways to make up

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with their defects instead of clustering together. And I think

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that's no one wants to break from the pack, except

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I will mention Peter, I know you were traveling. You

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may have missed this. CNN had to pull out midweek

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that had very good news for Kamala Harris. It's a

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real outlier after By the way, the last CNN poll

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that I remember was good news for Trump. So that's

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a weird one, and we'll just have to pay attention

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to that. But the other problem is, you know, early

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voting started slowly and then has gone gangbusters the last

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two three weeks. I think maybe it's now up to

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like fifty million votes. One of the things I wish

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we knew is how many of those people had second

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thoughts after they cast an early vote. So here you

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have all this business with garbage people and Puerto Rico

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and all this crazy stuff at the end. And you know,

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one of the arguments against early voting, aside from potential

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fraud and so forth, is that you don't have the

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late breaking information we're not all expressing. I'm an old

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believer in the view that election day should be a

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collective expression at a single point in time of almost

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the entire electorate, and we don't have that now we

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have election month, and I think that's a real civic problem.

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So it's going to be interesting if we ever find

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out the extent to which the early vote, which has

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favored Republicans more this year than in the past, differs

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substantially from the election day in person vote. One final

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point about turnout. So here's the thing to think about, Peter,

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And I've got to think Democrats are paranoid right now.

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Their turnout operation has always been great. But who have

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they targeted for maximum votes? Well, labor union members groups

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where Trump is picking off large numbers of people. So

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if I'm a Democratic operative right now, I'm terribly worried

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that my turnout operation is going to turn out the

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margin of victory for Trump.

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Speaker 4: And wouldn't that be fun?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 5: That would be So I guess I see what you

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think of this. If we did a kind of probability dispersion,

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I'd say three chances in five that Trump loses the

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popular vote but wins in the electoral college, one chance

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in five that kamalo ekes out a narrow victory, but

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also about one chance in five that Trump wins the

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popular vote and the electoral college, and that this whole

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thing breaks in his way in his direction over the

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next few days, and that he wins by three or

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four points and it's just a solid, unambiguous victory. And that, honestly,

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of course, is what I'm hoping for, because the backbiting,

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the agony the lawsuits, the incriminations that we now know

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can go on for more months when we get a

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mixed result. Anyway, it just seems to me, four out

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of five in my little personal probability dispersion, four out

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of five chances Trump wins in one way or another,

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and about one in five that he wins pretty let's

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put it this way, unambiguously decisively. Does that sound right

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to you, guys?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's right.

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Speaker 1: The remote possibility that Trump wins the popular vote but

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loses the electoral college, and you can game out the

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states to get that outcome. But what it will mean

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that no one has recognized is that in a lot

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of blue states, democratic support has eroteed substantially.

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Speaker 4: That's the only way Trump would get so.

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Speaker 1: In other words, instead of instead of Harris winning New

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York by twenty three points as Biden did four years ago,

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she only wins it by ten. And that kind of

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erosion democratic support would be an interesting thing. If you

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have fluke like that, that happens, and of course watch

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everybody switch sides and suddenly Democrats will love the electoral college,

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which will.

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Speaker 5: Be and he is he is piling up. It's a

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ridiculous term, but they seem to be using it. He's

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piling up excess are unnecessary votes. He's up by ten

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in Florida, up by seven in Texas, up by nine

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in Ohio. Those are millions more votes, so to speak,

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than he needs. So who knows.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what late information could come to somebody

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who'd already cast their vote, Like the garbage thing, for example.

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I mean, wouldn't be any news to somebody to believe

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that the other side of the party believes that people

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who hold a particular set of ideas are garbage. They

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just haven't said it before, but they certainly implied it.

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You're right about the feeling, Peter. But the last time

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I had a feeling like this was Mitt Romney. Everything

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everything that's true, true, everything is coming up Mitt at

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the end. And I just remember how surprised we were

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on election nine. I don't really follow the polls very much.

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I've been doing things Roman style. I got up today,

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I got out my auspice Rod. I divided the sky

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into four into four quadrants, and then the birds flew

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through the upper right hand quadrant, which I believe foretels

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well for Trump. Now the garbage comment was interesting because

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it goes back to I mean, never mind what wood

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Biden said. What I find fascinating about it is the

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is the desire to wish out of the ether an

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apostrophe that has been pursued by many people in the media.

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He didn't say garbage supporters, he's garbage supporter apostrophe s

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and people have gone over this, like the audio Zapruder tape,

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trying to find the gap into which they can insert

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that little kernel of an apostrophe. When you see everybody

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in the you know, the usual suspects doing this, it

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reminds you of what the Washington Post is going through.

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The Washington Post declined to endorse anybody, and the reasons

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for that can vary when we can discuss that, putting

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them in the same category as the La Times in

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the USA today and the newspaper for which I work,

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by the way, and this has resulted apparently in a

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quarter million canceled subscriptions, because apparently people believe it is

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the duty and purpose of a news paper to be

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forthright in who they stand for as a matter of

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the entire paper's reputation. That's the thing that's interesting to

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me is these people are not just saying, well, it's

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the editorial board. Everybody knows that that's separate intellectually and

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technically and all the rest from the rest of the paper.

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But no, they seem to be giving the game away.

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Is saying, our paper as a whole must stand on

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the side of right or we're going to resign. Well,

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take an extra week off, you know with medical medical pay.

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And Bezos has said to the people, look, you got

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to start hiring conservatives. And he's not saying this, as

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I understand, is saying the editorial board has to hire

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these people. What he is saying, and I think correctly,

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is that the general population of the paper has to

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become more ideological diverse. Now, I don't know how you

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do that when you're hiring people. Sometimes you can do

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a wink and a nod. Where do you come from,

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what school did you go to? Stuff like that, or

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just read their social media and the rest of it.

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And I don't know how you can say that we're

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going to have these people and then not expect them

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to uphold abjective standards. But he is correct. When you

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have a monoculture in a newsroom, you just simply you

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don't have anybody to say. But that's not what the

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other side thinks. That's not what the other side is

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concerned about. You have people who listen to National Public

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Radio and read the New York Times in the Washington

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Post and exist in an ideological bubble, and there are

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no venn diagrams bursting their way into say, actually, there

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is another take on this. So they're always surprised, for example,

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when Trump wins. I mean, when Trump won last time,

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I had people coming up to me in the office

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because they knew that I was on the right side

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of things, and they were genuinely, genuinely christfallen that they

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couldn't see it coming. And the paper made a concerted

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effort to get out there and talk to people that

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they'd sort of cast to the wilderness of the political

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and cultural world.

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Speaker 1: You know, I still have in my file somewhere the

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Washington Post editorial right after the nineteen eighty election with

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Reagan's first landslide, and it said, gosh, there must have

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been something going on out there in the country that

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we just did not perceive. Flash forward to twenty sixteen,

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the Post ran almost the identical editorial. It was hilarious

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talk about learning nothing on the intervening time. Look, I

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think a couple things quickly. One is, there's a quote

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going around from New York Magazine attributed to a senior

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media executive. They don't name the person, saying it's pretty

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clear that if half the country thinks Trump's qualified to

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be president, they're not reading the media, the mainstream media anymore.

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It's like newsflash to the news business. The other one is,

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what is Joe Rogan's interview with Trump is now up

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to something like forty five million views, and by coincidence,

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the New York Times comes out with a story today

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that they've been investigating for a few weeks saying YouTube

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is empowering all these YouTubers like Ben Shapiro and Andrew

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Claven's son what Spencer Claven and others. Right, you're right,

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and they're saying and they're peddling misinformation and YouTube needs

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to censor them. So you know, what you're watching is

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the paranoia and panic of the failing media. I mean,

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Trump was way ahead of the curve on this. Obviously,

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He's absolutely right to call it fake news in the

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failing media. And so here's a real crisis and to me,

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the big question is, and I'll end here, is Bezos

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about to become the next Elon Musk comember Musk was

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an Obama supporting mostly liberal and who knew he was

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going to go all the way over to where he

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has landed now? And Bezos maybe he's going to follow

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the same trajectory. I think the first sign you mentioned, James,

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who they would hire, I'd say the post hire Byron

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york As, one of your principal political reporters from the

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Washington Examiner. That would be a sign that they're going

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to change.

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Speaker 5: Just well, okay, well minute, our guest. Our guest happens

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to know a thing or two about journalism. Let's bring

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him in and we'll ask him about oh a few

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things like what he's been working on lately, but possibly

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also immediate current events of these next few days.

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Speaker 3: Why not. That's a great way of segueing into Andrew

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Claven back to the podcast after an awful long time,

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of course, host to the Andrew Claven Show, which you

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could find I don't know, We'll I have a link

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to it somewhere here on Ricochet. Andrew, welcome back, Good

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to talk to you.

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Speaker 6: Hey, James, good to see it.

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Speaker 3: Author of A Woman Underground, which is the next book

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briefly A Prices. What's it about?

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Speaker 6: It's the fourth book in the Cameron Winter series. It's

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kind of the crucial crisis book where he has to

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go back into his past and find out what he's

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all about. So it's I think it's really one of

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the best books in the series. I'm really happy with it.

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Speaker 5: Drew, could I just before we continue about your book

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and your brilliant thoughts and so forth. It's come to this.

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We end up booking you because Spencer was unavailable.

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Speaker 6: I know, I know that's.

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Speaker 4: Everyone does that.

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Speaker 5: Explain that? Explain what that feels like.

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Speaker 6: Dad, Well, you know, it's a terrible thing as you

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come to the end of I think a fairly successful career,

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to see your brilliant son begin a successful career of

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his own. It's a bitter, bitter blow and I'm not

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sure I'll ever get over it.

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Speaker 5: Don't you wish you'd smothered him in the crib?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 6: I sud My wife was like, eh, you know, it's

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like she wouldn't go.

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Speaker 5: For it, Okay, So I just wanted to get that

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one out of the way.

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Speaker 4: James back to you.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, I'll be tell you.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to say something here that I write books

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myself too. We love the word, We love the story,

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the plot and the things and the depth that we

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can get to it. But if we wanted to reach

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modern males today, the modern mails where I was being

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told are in crisis, and they are from just about

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any metric that you look at. Why would we write

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a novel when we could write a game. I've been

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reading an off I've been reading an awful lot on

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Twitter because I follow some people who are insiders and

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outsiders of the gaming industry and the way that it's

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been hijacked by people who are determined to inject into

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every single possible game they touch social proselytizing, which is

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turning off vast swaths of the audience, which just basically

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want to play Call of Duty and not be lectured

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about pronouns and the rest of it. But it is

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a ripe medium that the right has yet to read

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the sort of get their hands around. Should we Is

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it simply too simplistic to deal with the issues that

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we think should be discussed. Would an attempt to sort

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of make it more right friendly just result in games

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that are as dead as the ones that try to

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go leftward. What do you think about the entire medium

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of gaming and and how we can use it to

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shape the culture we want.

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Speaker 6: Well, I'm one of the rare conservative commentators who love games.

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I've been playing them since Pong. I continue to play them,

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although I feel that they kind of I feel they

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kind of crested in the nineties because the innovation was

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so exciting, just so exciting to watch Pong turn into

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these incredibly elaborate games. Now they're kind of plateaued. But

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you're absolutely right, they've been invaded by the woke. And

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what I like about that is that means there are

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many games that I can play with pleasure, but there

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are now also many games that I cannot play with pleasure.

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I can actually sit and not play the latest game

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that I know is going to lecture me about pronouns.

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And people ask me all the time if I think

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that games are an art, and I think that there

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are games that have in fact been artistic, the problem is,

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just like any art, just like the novel, movies, whatever,

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They're not an art if you don't treat them like

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an art. If you sit there for four hours staring

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at this thing in a darkened room, and never do

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anything with your life that's not using games as an art.

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But still, I think there's a lot of good stuff

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that can be done. And the good thing about being

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a conservative is you don't have to lecture people. You

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just have to give them the experience. It's closer to

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real life than anything that left can produce. So I mean,

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you know you mentioned call of duty. Just fighting the

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bad guys can be a conservative experience. I would like

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to see fewer action women. I think I now no

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longer will watch a movie in which a woman beats

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up a man because I just think it's inherently dishonest,

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and not only dishonest on the surface, but dishonest down

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to the ground. And so I think I'd like to

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see a lot less of that. But really, in games,

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what's happening is the really shapely girls women go around

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fighting people, and thirteen year old boys get to play

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bounce them around. I remember the first time that what

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with the tomb raider. What's her name again, I've forgot

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Laura Croft, Laura Croft. I remember the first time they

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made it so that her breast bounced when she jumped

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up and down. I saw for about twenty minutes just

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making her jump up and down. And that was my

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life for a while. And I think that can be

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very useful. But yeah, you know, listen, I'm for all

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the arts. I love every new thing. I think every

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I've kind of my life has been a little bit

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like the like Alfred Hitchcock system, where he would denigrate

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everything new and then use it. And that's what I've

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tried to do. I've written a movie that was released

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on an iPad. I've started doing podcasts when podcasts came along.

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And I think all these things our venues of culture,

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and culture is a beautiful thing. And I think it's

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culture is a way we encapsulate the society and play

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it back to itself so we can see it more objectively.

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Speaker 3: I do one more thing on that. It's a great

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way of putting it. There was a game called BioShock, Yes,

401
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which was which was all about, in the end, the

402
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intellectual limitations and perils of an iron Rand philosophy, which

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people loved. Yeah, give it to Ion. The next game

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to that was all about the perils and the horrors

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of collectivism. The third one was about the perils sort

406
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of national Christian exceptionalism, which didn't lecture you about it,

407
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but just laid out a very interesting world. And these

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are ways in which you can tell these tales. But

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sometimes I have to think. I have been playing recently

410
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a game called Sorry It's True gas Station Simulator, which

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is the most conservative thing I've ever done in my life,

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because you have to balance books, you have to order

413
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petrochemicals and all the rest of it, and it's it's

414
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it's it's absolutely fascinating and my father, gas station owner,

415
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would be very pleased. There I've said it. Peter, you

416
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were going to say, uh, Drew.

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Speaker 5: Book five in the Cameron Winters series, to be released

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next spring, The Bouncing Breasts, you know, I give that

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to you for free.

420
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Speaker 4: I give that to you inspired. Yeah, so listen.

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Speaker 5: So the current book is a Woman Underground. It's book

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four in the Camera and Winter series. I confess because

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you write so fast that the only one of the

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four I have read is the first book book never

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one when Christmas comes, absolutely marvelous, gobbled it down in

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a weekend, which I think is you'd be happy to

427
00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:23,000
hear that that's what you have in mind. These are

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to be their thought provoking, but their entertainments correct.

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Speaker 6: This is the whole thing for me, is you know

430
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I started out That's what I've started out trying to do,

431
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is take this form that I love and that I

432
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happen to have a gift for and try to make it,

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you know, really deep and interesting while not slowing it down.

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Speaker 4: That's okay.

435
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Speaker 5: So I want to I want to name the books

436
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where we're selling today. A Woman Underground that's book four,

437
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When Christmas Comes is book one, A Strange Habit of

438
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Mind is book two, and then The House of Love

439
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and Death is book three.

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Speaker 4: Have I got that?

441
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Speaker 6: Yep?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

443
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Speaker 5: What made you suppose that you could sustain the sheer

444
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inventiveness over a series? I had just questions about how

445
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you do this? How did you come up with Cameron Winter?

446
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Is that where you started first? Do you have in

447
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your desk drawer six more plots? Is this to be

448
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a dozen? How do the creative juices? It's so mysterious

449
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and yet at the same time it can't be entirely mysterious,

450
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because this is a business that you're in. You've got

451
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to keep readers satisfied. You've got to hit some kind

452
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of rhythm. How do you do it? Where do you start?

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Speaker 6: Well, you know, this is the only time I've ever

454
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written a series. I've written trilogies and I wrote one

455
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books series that had four books in it, But this

456
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is the first time I've ever thought committed myself to

457
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something longer. It began during the COVID lockdowns. My old

458
00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:48,359
friend Otto Pensler, who is the greatest mystery editor of

459
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his generation. Without there's nobody second, really, he's just the best,

460
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and he called me up and asked me if I

461
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would write a Christmas mystery, and that the fact was

462
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I had had this Christmas mystery in my head for

463
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thirty years and I just couldn't solve it. I couldn't

464
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figure out how to get from what I knew was

465
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the ending, from what I knew was the beginning to

466
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what I knew was the ending. I couldn't figure out

467
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the middle. But when he said that, it's kind of

468
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,319
inspired me, and I took a couple of days during COVID,

469
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took these long walks, and I cracked the story. And

470
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so I with every story to me, the idea is,

471
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who is the person or people you're going to put

472
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in the story to make it as rich as it

473
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can possibly be, because there's a big difference.

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Speaker 5: So you start with character.

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Speaker 6: I start with character and plot together like afterwords. I think,

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difference whether Superman fights a dragon or Frodo does it,

477
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,440
it makes it. It's a totally different story. And so

478
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,200
I fashioned Cameron Winter to be in this story that

479
00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:42,039
I finally solved. And the minute I did, I realized

480
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,519
that I felt I had tapped into a cultural vein,

481
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:48,279
which was this that I saw a big transition coming

482
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:51,799
in American culture. I thought the last rise of good

483
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,640
American fiction was the television revolution in the two thousands,

484
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,599
and that all of those stories were about anties and

485
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,200
I had been written writing anti hero novels up till then.

486
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,200
But then I saw them on TV and I realized

487
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,079
they were going to be there, the Sopranos and Breaking

488
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,880
Bad and The Shield and Deadwood and all these stories

489
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,880
that were bad guys but kind of good. And I

490
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,240
realized that the reason they were doing that is that

491
00:24:16,279 --> 00:24:19,440
they had outlawed manhood so that the only manhood could

492
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,240
be among outlaws. And I thought, okay, we've played that

493
00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:24,480
straight out. Because you could see it dying. You could

494
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,599
just see television, eat it up and spit it out.

495
00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:28,720
I thought, I'm going to take a guy who has

496
00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:30,559
been a bad guy and see if I can turn

497
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,279
him into a good guy over time. And so I

498
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:35,160
took this kind of broken man. This guy had come

499
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,519
out of government work doing some very bloody stuff, came

500
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:40,720
back to a country that was not the country that

501
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:43,519
he had left to fight for, and realized that he

502
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:45,200
had no place to be, that he was a killer

503
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,359
without a cause, as it were, and he had to

504
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,440
now find a way to express himself. That transformed him.

505
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,119
And so this is a guy who's been searching for himself,

506
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,319
searching for what he can become, and it's been amazing.

507
00:24:57,559 --> 00:24:59,039
I knew the minute I did that. I thought this

508
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:01,240
is going to take at least ten books, because I

509
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,599
think it's going to take ten to fifteen years as

510
00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:06,240
this country moves through the transition we're going through. And

511
00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:08,079
I think I can kind of record that in a

512
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,319
fictional way that will give it more depth. I didn't

513
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,720
say and here are the stories I will tell. I

514
00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:17,200
simply understood that everything had to be based on his character, like,

515
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,160
in other words, he could never you know, he's not

516
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,720
going to go into musical comedy. He's got a certain

517
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,400
series of traits like every one of us, and those

518
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,240
traits and those instincts, and that nature is going to

519
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:30,160
guide him in where he goes. And that really brings this.

520
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,240
You know, originally the story brought the character into being,

521
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:35,440
but now the character brings the stories into being.

522
00:25:36,319 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 5: So you're talking to three people who do a fair

523
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,759
amount of writing, not as much well no, no, James writes, one,

524
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:43,599
excuse me, I don't do as much writing as the

525
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,359
rest of you. Therefore, of course I hate you. You're

526
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,880
so productive. But Drew just the kind of nuts and

527
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,359
bolts question of the kind that I find actually does

528
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,000
fascinate people. When do you do it? You're on the

529
00:25:54,039 --> 00:25:57,799
air all the time, you travel constantly. I can't pop

530
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,839
up at a conference without hearing that you just spoken

531
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,359
left and now I have to beat your example. Do

532
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,640
you get up at five in the morning and put

533
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,960
in three hours before breakfast or how does how do

534
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:09,279
you work this into your life?

535
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 6: Basically, I don't sleep very much, and I do wake

536
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:13,359
up at five in the morning, and I do get

537
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,480
to work very quickly. And you know, most of the

538
00:26:16,519 --> 00:26:19,160
time the phone doesn't start ringing until I actually turn

539
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,480
everything off while I'm writing, and most of the time

540
00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:24,200
by the time i'm finished writing because I'm actually a

541
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,400
slow writer. But if you write for three and four

542
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,880
hours every day, you will produce a book eventually, and so,

543
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,720
you know, so I do that, and then the phone

544
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:36,279
doesn't really start ringing until after I'm done, and I

545
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:40,799
try not to schedule things for my writing time. And yeah,

546
00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:45,240
I work. I work a hard day. But Steve, you're

547
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:48,079
the you are the Steve Hayward who writes the ghost stories.

548
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,759
Speaker 4: Right, Well, that's all my critics say.

549
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:55,799
Speaker 1: I suppose, right, Although I'm glad to hear about your

550
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:58,200
writing habits, and I'm always asking those things, and I'm

551
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,920
glad to hear you say you're a slow writer, because

552
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,119
that's what I think I am too.

553
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 4: I have to labor things for a long time, and

554
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,039
Peter won't believe me.

555
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: But look, so I'm going to get a lot of

556
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,240
trouble with this question set up. But you know, there's

557
00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:13,480
a saying popular with you know, my political philosopher pals

558
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,000
and sometimes the surface of things is the heart of things.

559
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,559
And so when I saw the title a Woman Underground,

560
00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:23,680
my first thought was, find me a woman underground anywhere,

561
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:24,319
They're everywhere.

562
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 4: I mean, you know what I mean.

563
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:26,559
Speaker 3: You know, the line is.

564
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: That we live in a guyanocracy now, right, and this

565
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,000
is what's going to get me in trouble. But I want,

566
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,240
I want to turn it around, which is we've already

567
00:27:34,279 --> 00:27:37,640
talked about it, but I want to draw you out further. Well,

568
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,079
here's one piece of data for you.

569
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:41,519
Speaker 4: You know, college enrollment is dropping.

570
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: That's probably a happy thing overall, but the demographic that

571
00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:48,359
is dropping fast in higher education is young males, especially

572
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,799
young white males, very disaffected.

573
00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:53,039
Speaker 4: You know, Spencer, your son is all over this.

574
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm watching these male subcultures that are

575
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,759
resisting this and so what they're into, weightlifting, they're in

576
00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:02,160
the Roman Empire. A lot of them are reading the

577
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,559
classics in a very serious way, but also Nietzsche, which

578
00:28:05,599 --> 00:28:09,400
of course is problematic. I mean, understand why. But it's

579
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,440
a very dissident culture which has shocked me. Right, I mean,

580
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,960
this is a very different sort of conservative or rebellious

581
00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:18,920
young young males from you know, when I was a

582
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,200
young male, which is around the time of the Boer War.

583
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: I don't know, well, how you sizing this up? What

584
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:28,079
worries you, what gives you hope? I'll end my question there.

585
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,079
Speaker 6: Well, I'm an anti feminist, so I'm going to say,

586
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:33,319
if you think you're going to be shocking, you're really not.

587
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:35,599
You're gonna have to catch up with me. I think

588
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,000
the future is always male. I think whatever men are

589
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,440
doing is the future. And that means if they're failing,

590
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,039
the country will fail with them, the society will fail

591
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:46,680
with them. But the thing is when when women take over,

592
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:49,920
this is almost an iron rule. When women take over

593
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,440
a business, it's because the business is finished. And that's

594
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,359
not because it's because the business has become irrelevant. That's

595
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,519
not because women are bad at it. It's because men

596
00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:00,160
have already moved on to the next thing. So as

597
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,119
women became directors, the movies were over. As women became anchor,

598
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,400
women that nobody was paying attention to television news anymore.

599
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,039
Speaker 5: And when you see the name is Andrew Clavin, everyone

600
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:13,000
this is not the voice of Peter Robinson or Steve

601
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,400
Hayward or James Lyax continue continued, ladies.

602
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,759
Speaker 6: But but it's that right, It's simply it's simply true.

603
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,799
Women create life and men create culture, and that's the

604
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:28,480
way it goes. And so I think what you're seeing

605
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,839
when you say men are being part of a subculture,

606
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,279
it's not really a subculture except in the New York

607
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:36,680
Times to be fit, which is one of the things

608
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,240
that's happening. I love the fact that the New York

609
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:40,240
Times say is this is right wing and I good,

610
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,200
so we'll be able to beat you guys up, which

611
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,480
is exactly what you need. And that's one thing. It's

612
00:29:45,559 --> 00:29:48,519
not a subculture. To read the classics. Reading the classics

613
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,240
is the right thing to do. Nietzsche, I think, is

614
00:29:51,559 --> 00:29:53,400
an interesting guy, but we're gonna have to deal with

615
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,960
him because Nietzsche followed the logic of God being dead,

616
00:29:56,079 --> 00:29:58,079
and he did it just like the Marquis de Sade.

617
00:29:58,119 --> 00:29:59,359
He did it honestly.

618
00:29:59,599 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: And that.

619
00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 6: What's up. Yeah, thinking man's ign rant, thinking man's sign

620
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,480
rent exactly. And I think one of the things that

621
00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:10,759
I hope we'll start to see, and you speak of Spencer,

622
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:13,720
he's got a new book about this, is that that

623
00:30:13,839 --> 00:30:16,839
really science is pointing us back to God. And I

624
00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:19,519
think that once men return to the church and a

625
00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:21,960
lot of this nonsense that's going on in the churches

626
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:25,519
where they're basically just adopting, you know, left wing talking

627
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:28,279
points as religion is going to go away. I think

628
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:30,759
that that is a feminization of the church. That's a

629
00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:35,559
representation of churches that have been taken over by women internally.

630
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,160
And so they basically just go with what is you know,

631
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,799
what's what's happening in the culture, because women are I

632
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:44,480
think susceptible to cultural persuasion.

633
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,079
Speaker 1: Let's stick with that theme and then switch to pop entertainment.

634
00:30:48,279 --> 00:30:50,599
You said something a few minutes ago that that grabbed me.

635
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,359
You said, it makes a difference whether Superman is fighting

636
00:30:53,359 --> 00:30:56,480
the dragon or Frodo is fighting the dragon. Well, now,

637
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:00,519
of course we see all these New Tolkien adaptation from

638
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,559
uh what Apple, I forget Amazon, right, and it's Missus

639
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:06,000
proto fighting the Dragon, right.

640
00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 4: And I mean, you know.

641
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: The criticism from the left of the Lord of the

642
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,440
Rings it's too male and too masculine, right, and so

643
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,759
lo and behold we have these utterly unwatchable adaptations now

644
00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:18,400
that are meant to appeal to women. And I mean,

645
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,279
when are the studios gonna wake up and say, you know,

646
00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:22,000
it's going to be popular. I've actually got a couple

647
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,400
of young screenwriters say, you know, we're really looking forward

648
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,920
to getting back to the good old days. We can

649
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,480
have women in short skirts and right, but that's where

650
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,599
the money is going to be made. And ultimately, isn't

651
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,920
money going to force the entertainment industry to turn this around? Well?

652
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think that one of the things,

653
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,559
you know, I was I was at a dinner once

654
00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:42,079
with the Ted Cruz and you know, he's a very

655
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,079
very bright guy, and he was kind of holding court

656
00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:45,240
and asking everybody a question.

657
00:31:45,319 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 5: He got to me and he's holding court. How surprised.

658
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 6: He got to me, and his question was, what do

659
00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:53,799
you know that nobody else knows? And think, so, what

660
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:55,680
I know that nobody else knows is they don't care

661
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,240
about the money. And this is true in Hollywood. And

662
00:31:58,359 --> 00:32:00,640
people in Hollywood do not care about them money. They

663
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,039
care about the love. They care about the awards, the prestige,

664
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:06,480
the women. And they get all those things by being

665
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,119
left wing and by showing their woke credentials. And those

666
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,119
things die and they die in the box office, and

667
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:14,799
they don't care. They keep making them even though they

668
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:18,640
die in the box office. Ultimately, you beat them by

669
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,960
competing with them. You cannot beat them by trying to

670
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:23,400
convince them. This is the thing that drives me crazy

671
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,119
about the Right, and it's like we want to convince

672
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,559
that the right is much more less interested in whether

673
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,680
I say something shocking like I just did than being

674
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,359
approved of by Bill Maher Like I could care less.

675
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,880
And I actually have some respect from Mark, but I

676
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,720
could care less what he thinks of me and what

677
00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:41,480
he thinks of the culture, because I know he's kind

678
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,640
of a lost soul. So you know, I think that

679
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,839
we have to compete with him by making things that

680
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,799
are innovative, that are exciting, and that includes taking up

681
00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:54,720
new technologies before the left dominates them. Right now. I

682
00:32:54,759 --> 00:32:57,119
mean you were talking about games, James, but I think

683
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,400
way beyond games is this new meta technolog g this

684
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,640
three D technology which is going to let us live

685
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,720
in stories and play stories like we're on the Holid

686
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,359
deck on that science fiction show. I think that this

687
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,640
is really exciting stuff. And it bothers me that everything

688
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,720
that comes out from the Right looks to me like

689
00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:20,079
a kind of nineties retread when I think that new stuff,

690
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:22,319
you know, should be coming down the pike. You know

691
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:25,240
you mentioned novels. I love the novel I understand that

692
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:27,880
it's an old form, but I think that there are

693
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,920
certain forms that are eternal because they're just so intimate.

694
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:33,720
One of them is theater. Theater is always dying, but

695
00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:37,079
it's always alive. Novels are always dying, but they're always alive.

696
00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:39,480
And so I write what I love. But still I think,

697
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:41,519
you know, if I were starting out now, what I

698
00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:44,680
would be doing is doing three dimensional stuff, and I

699
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,279
would be if somebody asked me to do it. I

700
00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:48,680
do it anyway, And I just think that these are

701
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,240
the things that should be leading us. And it drives

702
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:54,440
me nuts when we complain about the fact that all

703
00:33:54,559 --> 00:33:59,559
the social media sites are left wing, but until Elon

704
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,960
muskme long, nobody does anything about it. I think we

705
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,279
should be inventing that stuff.

706
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: Three D immersive meta style virtual reality is interesting, but

707
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,400
it seems to me like it's the cold fusion of entertainment.

708
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,159
It's always it's always just one step away from really

709
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,079
being the big thing. I've been watching VR come down

710
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:19,559
the pike for an awful long time. I had an

711
00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:22,239
experience it early on when meta Facebook came up with

712
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,280
their ghastly system, the metaverse, which which instantaneously, which was

713
00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:31,400
a nightmarish world of sliding around a disembodied torso in

714
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,639
these jaggy brooms with people babbling about it. It was

715
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,679
the worst. I said, all right, let's just wait for

716
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,760
Apple to do it. And Apple has done it, and

717
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,639
Apple's going to come out with something cheaper. But yet,

718
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,480
but yet, but yet. There are still something that seems

719
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,280
to me fundamentally isolating about sitting somewhere with this alien

720
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,320
face hugger on your face, engaged in an alternate reality,

721
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,719
engaged in a feely engaged in another world, while the

722
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,760
rest of life goes about you in what we used

723
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,000
to call meat space. So I get it. I gets

724
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:02,719
the attraction. I'm a little hesitant about it. But maybe

725
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,559
let's say that's in our future. You said earlier that

726
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:08,679
we're going through a cultural shift, going through a cultural shakeout,

727
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,880
and that eventually we're going to end up at a

728
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,480
different place at the end of it. And I assume

729
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,079
that you think it's going to be a better place,

730
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:16,920
because these masculine virtues about which you speak will eventually

731
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,239
have no choice but to assert themselves. When you said

732
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,960
that Hollywood doesn't care about whether or not they make

733
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,119
money because they want to signal their virtues. That's true,

734
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:26,119
But as Margaret Thatcher said about socialism, eventually you run

735
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:28,719
out of other people's money to fund the next version

736
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,119
of acolyte. And I think what we're seeing now is

737
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:34,159
this huge python pig that's been working its way over

738
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,760
through ever since me too, ever since twenty twenty, that

739
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,679
at the end of it will have produced no art,

740
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,199
will have produced, no profit, will have produced nothing but

741
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,639
all of these inert pieces of cultural embellishment that have

742
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:47,639
done nothing but deface the things to which they were attached.

743
00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:49,960
So that's one thing I think they're going to realize

744
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,039
that they have to shift. The second thing is, and

745
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:53,719
this is the part that I want your wisdom on.

746
00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:57,880
When I see on Twitter red pilled Jimbros start to

747
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,280
appreciate sculpture and the Paris Opera House and the rest

748
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,079
of it, and do the whole return thing where the

749
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,400
you is a Roman v and the rest of it.

750
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:08,920
That's all great. Going back to cultural traditions, to the

751
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,639
heritage of Western society is great, and the more people

752
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,360
understand that, the better. But the more I follow these

753
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,000
accounts and the more I get them, the more they

754
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:24,000
also shade into a very unfortunate sort of white not supremacy,

755
00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:27,280
but isolationism. After a lot of these I start to

756
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,239
get stuff from the algorithm saying, well, you know, Rhodesia

757
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,679
was actually a pretty good idea. And then the next thing,

758
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,960
and you get more of that, and you can see

759
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,880
how people get stuck into these little communities that do

760
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,920
not connect them to a greater pluralistic society like we have,

761
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,960
but funnel them into just another poisonous form of identitarianism.

762
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,800
How do we get a soft landing out of all this?

763
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,039
Speaker 6: Well, you know, how is going to be an individual thing,

764
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:57,199
because what we need is artists to do the right thing.

765
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,960
Going back. See, going back can result in exactly what

766
00:37:01,039 --> 00:37:03,639
you're saying. It can result in this kind of yearning

767
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:07,039
for the worst of the past, thinking that what really

768
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:09,400
made Europe great was the color of people's skin, which

769
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,679
is nonsense, both when it comes from the left and

770
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,239
from the right. But also going back you get the Renaissance.

771
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,440
You get people doing things that they think were done

772
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,840
before but they're actually reinventing. You get Shakespeare writing Roman

773
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,320
plays that turn into an entirely new art form. There's

774
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,679
a wonderful short story by Borjes where it's a review

775
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,880
of a new version of Donkey Hodie. And the thing

776
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,880
is that the new version is exactly the same as

777
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,440
the old version, but because it's being written today, it

778
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,920
has an entirely different meaning. And so I think that

779
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,480
there are openings for art, but you have to have

780
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:47,599
people who you know, art is not always leftist, but

781
00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:51,760
it's always liberal. It is always open to the varieties

782
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,320
of human beings, open to change, open to cultural criticism.

783
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,440
It's one of the reasons that conservatives back off from it.

784
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,440
Instead of saying, oh, you know, my conservative worldview is

785
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,840
not big enough to create, and so I'm going to

786
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,760
open it up a little bit and then get a

787
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,719
little bit looser. You know, we basically say, oh, that's

788
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,440
bad it has a naked woman in it, or that's

789
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,360
bad it has a gay person, or whatever we wind

790
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,719
up saying. And so, of course you're right, this is

791
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,199
a danger, James. It always it always is. I mean,

792
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,719
you know, they blame romanticism for fascism, but Romanticism is

793
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,000
one of the great movements in the arts, and it's

794
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,440
one of the most intelligent movements in the arts and

795
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,400
one of the most important movements in the arts, and

796
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,840
so I think if we can refine, retake that up,

797
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:35,719
and do it in a fresh way, I think, I

798
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,239
think that it's going to be great. And I'm not

799
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,000
predicting that things are going to be great. I'm think

800
00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:41,280
predicting that things are going to change, and that we

801
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,719
have a new day coming, that our generation is passing

802
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,760
away as even even we must. And I think, you know,

803
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,519
a new new forms are going to take place, and

804
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,679
I think it's I'm hopeful about it. I'm not at

805
00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:55,840
all despairing about it.

806
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:58,199
Speaker 3: Well, and let the records just show that Andrew Clavin

807
00:38:58,199 --> 00:39:01,000
has endorsed romanticism, which you have can be manifested in

808
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:03,599
novels like The Sorrows of Young Verter, which resulted in

809
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:06,840
an epidemic of teen suicides throughout Germany. So that's another

810
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,039
one for you. You mentioned you mentioned don Quixote.

811
00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 7: It would be good to do another version of that

812
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,039
today with with with Mill Gibson in a mad Max

813
00:39:17,159 --> 00:39:20,480
car tilting at the windmills, these dark satanic things that

814
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:24,280
spin in the countryside, that that I would absolutely love

815
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:24,599
to see.

816
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 6: I just want I just want to point out that

817
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,039
dark satanic mills is William Blake, one of the great.

818
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,679
Speaker 3: Romance poets and did these feet and Ancient Times, which

819
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,679
actually was covered by Emerson Lake and Palmer of all phones. Yeah,

820
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,760
and I is you really don't expect Blake and Uh

821
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,159
and British music to be twinned thus. But then again,

822
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,320
as Stephen will tell you, as us progressive fans know,

823
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,039
it was perhaps the last gasp of musical ability and

824
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:58,360
style and intelligence and sophistication in the Western popular music. There,

825
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,199
I'm shutting up, Peter Drew.

826
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,559
Speaker 5: I have a couple of questions about politics, and I

827
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:06,800
would like viewers to understand that I have backed well

828
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,440
away from my computer because I don't want to touch

829
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:10,480
you with a ten foot poll.

830
00:40:12,639 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 6: Thanks Peter.

831
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 5: Right, So Donald Trump's report, Donald Trump, the book again?

832
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,119
The book Again is a Woman Underground, book number four

833
00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:23,599
in the Cameron Winter Series. Donald Trump, I just checked

834
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:26,559
this in Real Clear Politics. They have him up another

835
00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:29,559
tenth of a point in the national average. So now

836
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:32,599
he's leading in the national vote by half a percentage point,

837
00:40:32,639 --> 00:40:34,440
still within the margin of era. But he ticks up

838
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,440
and up and up. Is it because whatever else he is,

839
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:39,599
he's a guy.

840
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:43,679
Speaker 6: Well, I mean there is a huge divide, right, But

841
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,039
I mean he's he's something like eight percent up with

842
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:50,039
men and Kamala's nine percent up with women. And so, yes,

843
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:53,320
there is something to that, and he has played run

844
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,840
a very bro campaign. But there's there's something else about

845
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,719
Donald Trump. I mean, I sensed that he was months ago,

846
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,360
that he was on the rise, and that he was

847
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,519
going to possibly complete what is now one of the

848
00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:10,159
most amazing comebacks in political history. You know, Trump. People

849
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,960
who hate Trump can't see what he is, I think,

850
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,599
and maybe people who love Trump also can't see what

851
00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:18,119
he is. But I think that one of the things

852
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:20,639
he is is first of all, a highly intelligent man

853
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,400
who adapts to situations and changes because he believes in

854
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,480
common sense fixing of things. All other all of his

855
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:32,039
flaws aside. I think he believes that the best thing

856
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:34,960
he can do is fixed stuff to make it run better.

857
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,599
And in doing that, Trump has become a real symbol

858
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,880
of American spirit in ways that I would not have

859
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,840
expected when he first came on the political scene. His

860
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:52,920
courage under fire, which is remarkable and inspiring. His absolute

861
00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:58,679
refusal to knuckle under to the woke mind viruses. Elon

862
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:03,079
Musk calls it his absolute refusal to change because he's

863
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:05,960
being attacked constantly, and in fact he kind of welcomes

864
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,679
the attacks. All of these things represent a spirit of

865
00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:12,960
America that has been beaten down for sixty years. And

866
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,760
I think when I look at him, what I see

867
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,599
is the future. Oddly enough, maybe not in his policies,

868
00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:20,800
but in what he represents, because I think people are

869
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,199
just not going to be held down any longer.

870
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 5: Let me try a thought on you guys, and on Steve,

871
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,119
on you Drew, but also on Stephen James. And this

872
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:31,960
is just in my head, so here it comes out

873
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,000
loud for the first time, and it may be wildly wrong,

874
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,440
but it seems to me that up until two months ago,

875
00:42:38,679 --> 00:42:43,280
maybe even six weeks ago, you could characterize Donald Trump

876
00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:47,800
as this atavistic figure from the nineteen fifties that if

877
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,679
he closed his eyes, what he really wanted was a

878
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,360
Queen's that where it was safe to play stickball in

879
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,159
the streets again, and a Detroit that was turning out

880
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:58,400
Cadillacs with big fins and a lot of chrome on

881
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,440
the grill. He wanted to take us back. Up until

882
00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:07,239
some weeks ago, Elon Musk is now part of the

883
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,320
Trump campaign, and in my opinion, the most important political

884
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,119
event of the last month and a half was the

885
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:18,000
capture of that booster rocket as it returned to Earth.

886
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:24,519
And so elon Musk Bobby Kennedy. Now, Bobby Kennedy says things,

887
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:27,960
many things that are crazy, but you know, about two

888
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,280
thirds of what he says is really serious and thoughtful.

889
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,639
And at some level nobody talks about this except Bobby Kennedy.

890
00:43:36,679 --> 00:43:40,079
But at some level we all know that half the

891
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:42,079
country is on adderall and the other half is on

892
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,199
a zempic and this is not right. Yeah, And Bobby

893
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,039
Kennedy at his best, and his best is pretty impressive.

894
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,519
I think sounds almost like Daniel Patrick moynihan. We have

895
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:56,280
social problems, and we're a great nation. We should address them.

896
00:43:56,679 --> 00:44:00,480
And so within this Trump, this Trump take us back

897
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:03,480
to the nineteen fifties, is not that at all anymore.

898
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,239
There is an openness to the future. There is a

899
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,480
seriousness about social problem that just sort of takes my

900
00:44:09,519 --> 00:44:11,960
breath away. Now, calm me down, But that's a little

901
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,920
bit in the direction of what you were saying a

902
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:14,920
moment ago, isn't it true?

903
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:18,119
Speaker 6: Yes? And I think one of the things that the

904
00:44:18,199 --> 00:44:23,760
American ruling class has not quite digested yet is how

905
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:29,719
entirely and catastrophically they failed during COVID. You know, there's

906
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,519
a line, I agree, there's time in Winston Churchill's memoir

907
00:44:33,559 --> 00:44:35,480
of his young life where he says, I went to

908
00:44:35,519 --> 00:44:38,800
a party with the heads of Europe before World War One,

909
00:44:39,039 --> 00:44:40,760
and I went to a party with the heads of

910
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,199
Europe after World War One, and all of the people

911
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,079
in those parties were different because they had failed. That

912
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:48,679
was the last time we had that kind of catastrophic

913
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,199
failure of leadership, and those people were cleaned out. No

914
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:54,519
one has been fired over COVID, no one has lost

915
00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:57,440
his reputation over COVID. Nobody has been held to account

916
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,400
for the lies that were told by the highest people

917
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,599
in the country and the most powerful people in the

918
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:05,239
country during COVID. But the people keep the score, and

919
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,119
so ultimately these guys are done. And the thing about

920
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,920
Donald Trump is because he's a fixer, you know, because

921
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,559
he's a guy who sees a problem and he fix it.

922
00:45:13,679 --> 00:45:16,480
He's not done. He's just moved on to the next thing.

923
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:19,719
And you're absolutely right about that rocket capture the Peter

924
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,159
it was. It was exactly the sort of thing that

925
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,519
Trump looks at and thinks like, ooh, you know that's cool,

926
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,039
and there's apps and while while the left is literally

927
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:31,400
sitting around going, how can we investigate that Elon Musk

928
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,360
to get him to stop allowing conservatives to speak on X,

929
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:37,159
you know, Donald Trump is going ooh, I like that.

930
00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:40,039
That's the future. This is the difference between the left,

931
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:42,880
which is dead, and the right, which is in transition.

932
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:45,840
And I think that, you know, you're just right about this.

933
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,800
The failure of our elite class is entire and the

934
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,639
consequences have been nil. But they will come.

935
00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 4: They've got to well, you know, the jump back in.

936
00:45:56,559 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: You know, it seems to me that what ought to

937
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,840
terrify these lablishment the established institutions that have failed that

938
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,079
you mentioned, Andrew is.

939
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 4: Someone it must do.

940
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: And he took over Twitter, what he fired seventy five

941
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,480
percent of the staff and found out to work just as.

942
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,079
Speaker 4: Well without them.

943
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,119
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd like to see it replicated with just

944
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:16,079
about every government agency. Fire half the staff, wouldn't matter

945
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:17,320
which half it would get better.

946
00:46:18,159 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 4: We don't want and.

947
00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 1: Then rfk Ju and your Yeah, I completely agree with

948
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,800
Peter that he says crazy stuff, but right now, public

949
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,480
regard for institutions is so low that first of all,

950
00:46:29,639 --> 00:46:31,920
neither one of them, if they're actually in official positions,

951
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,599
Musk and Kennedy will be swallowed by the bureaucracy the

952
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:37,239
way so many appointees are in both parties, but especially

953
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:38,599
Republican administrations.

954
00:46:39,079 --> 00:46:40,599
Speaker 4: And with Kennedy's virtue is.

955
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: Going to be he's going to come in in the

956
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:44,440
CDC and all the other hell people are going to

957
00:46:44,519 --> 00:46:46,280
tell him this and that, and he's just going to

958
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,920
look at him say I don't believe you anymore. And

959
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,360
you're going to really have to, you know, be sterurner

960
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:51,639
than that.

961
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 6: Right.

962
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,639
Speaker 1: And so just the disruption of this, I mean, when

963
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:57,079
you tell the American people, because these are crazy people

964
00:46:57,079 --> 00:46:59,400
who are going to disrupt our institutions, I think at

965
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,840
least half the country smiles when they hear that.

966
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,079
Speaker 4: And it's long overdue.

967
00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 6: That was one of the funny things about that project

968
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,159
twenty twenty five. They kept saying he's going to cut

969
00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:09,480
fifty percent of the bureaucracy, and I thought, oh, you know,

970
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:13,199
that's wrong about seventy five percent. Yeah, But you know,

971
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,159
my problem with RFK is that like buried, you know,

972
00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:18,960
just because somebody tells a lie, that doesn't mean the

973
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,920
opposite is the truth. And just the other day I

974
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,400
interviewed the doctor Martin McCarry who said many of the

975
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,840
same had spotted many of the same problems that RFK spots,

976
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,559
but he's a much more responsible, balanced, measured person who

977
00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:36,360
sort of talks about the various ways in which these

978
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,519
things can be addressed. And I would like to see

979
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,480
more people like him come forward and say, yes they

980
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,679
are lying, but that doesn't mean the opposite is true.

981
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,559
Yes they may have lined about the efficacy of the vaccine,

982
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:48,400
but that doesn't mean the vaccine is worthless or going

983
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,400
to kill you, you know. I mean, I think that everything

984
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,039
is more shaded than RFK admits, and he worries me

985
00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:56,039
in that regard.

986
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 5: Before James takes this out, I want to read the

987
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,639
books again. Number one when Christmas comes. Number two a

988
00:48:02,679 --> 00:48:06,440
Strange Habit of Mind. Number three is the House of

989
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,880
Love and Death, and number four is a Woman Underground.

990
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,639
They're the Cameron Winter Series. Here's what I'm going to do.

991
00:48:11,679 --> 00:48:14,960
I'm going to buy all four for Christmas, stick them

992
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,000
in different stockings, and then these are fun books. These

993
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,480
are books that you can read in a couple of

994
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:23,119
days and the family will pass them around. You made

995
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:29,920
for sales, Drew. Can we discuss a kickback over I'm easy.

996
00:48:29,639 --> 00:48:33,039
Speaker 3: To bruy, right, So to your point about RFK saying

997
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:34,679
some things, but you wish the source is greater. I

998
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,360
have my problems with psychiatry, but I don't necessarily want

999
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:38,960
to go to the l Ron Hubbard people to get

1000
00:48:39,079 --> 00:48:42,159
my talking points about it. We'll leave you. We'll go

1001
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,800
out with this prediction. Next week the election. What do

1002
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:47,599
you think is going to happen.

1003
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 6: Well, my feeling is that Trump is going to win,

1004
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,400
and he's not just going to win the electoral college,

1005
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,559
he's going to win the popular vote. But it is

1006
00:48:55,679 --> 00:48:57,719
just a feeling, and so it's not a prediction. It

1007
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,960
is just the way i'm It's what I feel in

1008
00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:00,800
the culture right.

1009
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: This moment, All right, everybody, A woman on the ground.

1010
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,119
Is the book? Buy it in eye by it, buy

1011
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:09,920
it in Kindle, buy it in paper form. And we

1012
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,239
assume that the fifth book in the series, of which

1013
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,800
there are to be what ten, will be set in

1014
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,480
a VR world in which one can move about in

1015
00:49:17,519 --> 00:49:19,599
a terrogate characters and form your own adventure and the

1016
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:21,239
rest of it. If there's anybody we trust to do

1017
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,480
something interesting, fascinating, fun to read in that medium as

1018
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,920
in all others, it's Andrew Claven. Thank you for joining

1019
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,039
us in the podcast today, My friend beat to see

1020
00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:29,519
you guys.

1021
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 4: Bye bye, take care of Drew.

1022
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 3: So before we go, is there anything you guys? Here's

1023
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,159
what we should do. Actually, we got about four or

1024
00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:40,840
five minutes here. Each of you should make a prediction

1025
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,159
about the election, one for Trump and then one for Harris,

1026
00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:47,199
and then we'll edit it later depending on what actually happens,

1027
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:52,840
to make to make you sound an incredibly prescient because yeah,

1028
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:54,239
I told.

1029
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 5: You guys, I knew she would win. That's a that's

1030
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:57,679
a stand by for me.

1031
00:49:58,039 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: Can I remember that old movie Clue where they had

1032
00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:03,159
like four different endings in the movie, and it's.

1033
00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:07,639
Speaker 3: Like, okay, like that right, right, Well, if Harris wins,

1034
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:10,280
if nothing else, we're going to see an absolute boom

1035
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:15,039
in comedy. I mean, I don't know if they're going

1036
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:16,360
to Rogan, if they're going to do what they're doing

1037
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,039
with Rogan and just keep her away from people who

1038
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:25,239
would interrogate her in detail. But the malapropisms, the word salads,

1039
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,800
the nonsensical orations. Four years of the some people just

1040
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,840
may despair and say I can't take it, but you

1041
00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:33,960
have to admit it's not going to be lacking for entertainment.

1042
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,320
Same with Trump, of course, although people they are worried

1043
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,400
that there will be chaos because nobody knows what's going

1044
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,039
to happen. Nobody knows who's going to join the administration

1045
00:50:41,159 --> 00:50:42,440
or whether or not it's going to be like it

1046
00:50:42,519 --> 00:50:44,920
was before. People. Just as I said and Peter agreed

1047
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,960
with a while ago, it's not so much that people

1048
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,239
think that Trump is going to do all of these things.

1049
00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:51,280
It's a lot of people are voting for him because

1050
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,239
they know that he will not do these other things correct.

1051
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,639
And when it comes to an inflation and immigration, the

1052
00:50:56,639 --> 00:51:00,239
two big eyes there, we may see some action a one.

1053
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,760
If he does actually get Musk to come on and

1054
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,840
get out his shears and say, oh, two trillion, I

1055
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,400
can do that. That would be interesting to see. And

1056
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,159
the shrieks and the howls and the bloodletting and the

1057
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,440
rest of it. That's a national experiment I think we

1058
00:51:11,519 --> 00:51:12,880
need to have when it comes to kind of that

1059
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,719
and immigration. We're always seeing people talk about how it's

1060
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,079
going to be absolutely impossible to expel people who are

1061
00:51:18,079 --> 00:51:20,639
here illegally, even the criminals, even if we don't get

1062
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:23,039
to the point where the vans are going around and

1063
00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:26,079
shoving people in them. I think something that says that

1064
00:51:26,119 --> 00:51:30,360
you cannot make yourself a sanctuary city that turns rapists

1065
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,400
loose instead of telling Ice where they are. I think

1066
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,960
that era would come to an end by popular demand.

1067
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,079
If not loss. Am I wrong there? Well?

1068
00:51:40,119 --> 00:51:43,559
Speaker 1: I signed up this way, James. Look, there's downsides to

1069
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:46,360
eat a candidate winning. Doubts about Trump are well known.

1070
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,960
But I think it's what's worse the Democratic Party. If

1071
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,920
Harris wins, it's the worst thing that could happen to them.

1072
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,239
The party needs to clean house ever bit as much

1073
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,559
as it did after their losses in the nineteen eighties

1074
00:51:57,599 --> 00:51:59,760
that brought them Bill Clinton in a moved to the center,

1075
00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:03,599
really save them from almost oblivion. And if that, oh,

1076
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,599
good times for Conservatives. If Harris wins, I mean, will

1077
00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:09,320
be miserable and shold a lot of terrible stuff, But we.

1078
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 4: Will be on the offensive if we keep the Senate.

1079
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 5: If we keep the Senate and China doesn't move on Taiwan,

1080
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,199
we can almost live with the leader of the Democratic

1081
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,000
Party being this utterly incoherent vacuus person.

1082
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,639
Speaker 3: Midterms. Midterms would be lit as the kids.

1083
00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 4: True, that's right. And look Trump.

1084
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,119
Speaker 1: A Trump victory will ratify, especially I think his inspired

1085
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,039
choice of JD Vance as that I think it turns

1086
00:52:33,039 --> 00:52:36,079
out in retrospect that will ratify a change in the

1087
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:38,920
character of demo of the Republican Party that I think

1088
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:42,079
will mean a good times ahead for the long term.

1089
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 3: Agreed, Well, we we will meet next week. Wow, think

1090
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,880
of that next week, next week, It'll all it'll it'll

1091
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,840
be done, It'll be settled. Who am I kidding? Probably

1092
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,760
dragon for another two or three months. As Arizona says, well,

1093
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,400
we can't, we can't. We can't count we can't count them.

1094
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,119
I mean, for Heaven's sake. So where was that Argentina

1095
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:04,920
had an election and they knew the results? By oh,

1096
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,000
we used to have we used to And I to

1097
00:53:07,079 --> 00:53:09,519
go back to what Steven said at the beginning, I

1098
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:12,239
remember the first time that I voted in a presidential election.

1099
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,440
It was in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and I went to a

1100
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:17,760
church and there was an organist practicing for Sunday. So

1101
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,920
you had this, you had to caught in fugue playing

1102
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,320
throughout the whole building. You could feel the base notes

1103
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,440
in you. And you walked into this little booth and

1104
00:53:25,519 --> 00:53:28,639
you pulled the curtain behind you. You made your mechanical selections,

1105
00:53:28,639 --> 00:53:31,280
and then you picked up this great lever, a great

1106
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,000
lever like you were throwing a you know, the switch

1107
00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:36,559
on an electric chair or a train or something, and

1108
00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:39,119
you pulled it and you could almost sense the votes

1109
00:53:39,199 --> 00:53:41,800
just clattering off through these mystical relays to the place

1110
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,159
where they be tabulated. And it was great. It felt great.

1111
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,599
It felt much better than walking up with a little

1112
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:50,320
big pen and making an oval mark in this this

1113
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:53,960
little cheap little thing that they had that feels like

1114
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,199
a porta potty for hobbits. I enjoyed it then, and

1115
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,519
I really liked when we knew. By the end of

1116
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:01,960
the day, I think we can do it again. And

1117
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:05,119
I don't really see a compelling argument why we can't.

1118
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,239
But next week we'll find out. In the meantime, everybody

1119
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,480
sho go to ricochet dot com sign up if you haven't.

1120
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,360
The member feed is where you want to be, and

1121
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,000
it's where on election night, of course, we will have many,

1122
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:19,480
many conversations that it'll tell you it's the place you're

1123
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,360
looking for. Facebook, no, Twitter, No, you want community, you

1124
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,280
go to ricochet dot com. Peter, it's been a pleasure, Steven,

1125
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,000
it's been a pleasure as well. The book Andrew Claven

1126
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,000
a Woman Underground. Yeaht to buy it because he's one

1127
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,199
of us. And I have nothing more to say except

1128
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,199
thanks and we'll see you at the comments at Ricochet

1129
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,960
for point Oh next week, guys, oh next week Ricochet.

1130
00:54:43,679 --> 00:54:44,639
Speaker 5: Join the conversation.