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<v Speaker 1>Get ready.

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<v Speaker 2>October twenty twenty four. Allegedly, according to that thing we

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<v Speaker 2>call a calendar, this is the O'Kelly effect. It is

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<v Speaker 2>a Wodin's day as I speak to you, Wednesday, middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the week, that's right, And oddly enough, yesterday, when

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<v Speaker 2>it was Tuesday, Tiesday, the second day of the week.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when you start counting from Monday and all

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<v Speaker 2>that good stuff broadcast days, I should have been broadcasting. However, somehow,

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<v Speaker 2>stupidly I thought all day that it was Monday, so

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<v Speaker 2>I missed yesterday's broadcasts. We got a bunch of things

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<v Speaker 2>to cramm in for this week to finish it out,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm gonna be broadcasting every day in some way,

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<v Speaker 2>shape or form, broadcasting and recording every single day, multiple shows, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>from now until Sunday, all the way when we break

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<v Speaker 2>into Monday where I'm sitting. Okay, so a lot of shows.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. There's like eight or nine shows all

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<v Speaker 2>together that are going to be produced in the next one, two, three, four,

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<v Speaker 2>four full days and now. Okay, so get ready for it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not gonna be filler either. Tonight. We're gonna start

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<v Speaker 2>off right away with Larry Hancock, the author of a

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<v Speaker 2>great many books on my shelf, including someone would have

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<v Speaker 2>talked including you know, let's see nexus including there are

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<v Speaker 2>many tipping point great one to point out. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought maybe Larry was done writing about the JFK assassination.

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<v Speaker 2>But we've got something else and available for pre order

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<v Speaker 2>right now, is indeed the Oswald Puzzle that is co

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<v Speaker 2>authored by Larry Hancock and David Boylen b. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I always messed that at bo y l an. He

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<v Speaker 2>said it's fine when I pronounced it that way. I

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<v Speaker 2>have a feeling it's not. But who knows. Maybe he's

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<v Speaker 2>used to it, or maybe he's just now so accustomed

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<v Speaker 2>to it he accepts all pronunciations. But anyway, that's his

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<v Speaker 2>co author on this one Oswald puzzle. Okay, and let's

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<v Speaker 2>see is that exactly. I have a link right here

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<v Speaker 2>which I'm gonna give to you guys in the chats

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<v Speaker 2>and also anyplace else you ask for it. I'll give

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<v Speaker 2>you the link because you can pre order it now

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<v Speaker 2>as we speak. So it'll go into the live chatroom

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<v Speaker 2>at ochelli dot com. And you guys will see that

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<v Speaker 2>and know that, hey, I was broadcasting live even if

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<v Speaker 2>you roll it back later and be that you can

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<v Speaker 2>go and get the book now, and I already know

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to be something good. We've been talking for

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<v Speaker 2>months with Larry about this reevaluation, re examination, another sort

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<v Speaker 2>of look at the historical figure that is Lee Harvey

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<v Speaker 2>Oswald because of the evolution of actual solid evidence, other

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<v Speaker 2>information streams, and who knows, maybe even the shift let's say,

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<v Speaker 2>prejudices and biases which might have existed no offense to

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<v Speaker 2>Larry but in his work and other researchers work previously,

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<v Speaker 2>because there was just so many missing pieces to the puzzle, right,

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<v Speaker 2>there were so many pieces that needed to be added

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe a few that needed to be subtracted. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's just that simple. And I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 2>go to it right away to see if I can

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<v Speaker 2>pick it up, and you know, it's funny. Let's see

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<v Speaker 2>if we can get it directly. But I think I

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<v Speaker 2>have the link already posted in the Ocelli chat room,

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<v Speaker 2>and I do want to copy that link and see

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<v Speaker 2>if I can get it again and run it straight

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<v Speaker 2>away through my browser. And yes, indeed, Oswald Puzzle hardcover,

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<v Speaker 2>it says it's going to be released January fourteen, twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five, and Larry Joe Hancock is the author. David

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<v Speaker 2>Boylin is also the author all that listed pre order

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<v Speaker 2>price guaranteed and all that good stuff through Amazon dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's see, let's just make sure again we posted

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<v Speaker 2>correctly in the Live Ocelli chat room. But those of

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<v Speaker 2>you that hear this YA podcast later on, it will

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<v Speaker 2>be included in the show notes. So with all that aside,

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<v Speaker 2>and all of the previous mentions and previous podcasts. For

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<v Speaker 2>many years now, I've done shows with Larry Hancock, gratefully, proudly,

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<v Speaker 2>including a one oh one series to give people an

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<v Speaker 2>idea about the well, the official and maybe somewhat an

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<v Speaker 2>occasion slightly less than official ask you know, well investigations.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the word I was searching for. Anyway, the investigations

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<v Speaker 2>that took place, we gave you one oh one on that,

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<v Speaker 2>we started a two on one series, dropped it there

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<v Speaker 2>because it was seemingly like you needed to go do

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<v Speaker 2>the research. After that, we did an entire series devoted

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<v Speaker 2>to the Larry Hancock collection, which has now been added

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<v Speaker 2>to since then, not only this book, but a couple

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<v Speaker 2>other pieces. Meanwhile, he's written about a few other topics

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<v Speaker 2>outside of the jfk assassination that are all interlinked to

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<v Speaker 2>what the behaviors, procedures and activities of mostly the intelligence agencies,

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<v Speaker 2>but through the lenses of political influenced the spheres thereof

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<v Speaker 2>the public knowledge. Examining many, many things in context on

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<v Speaker 2>this show to give you just a hint of all

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<v Speaker 2>the information very carefully researched and presented by Larry Hancock,

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<v Speaker 2>some other co authors, including Stu Wexler on other books,

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<v Speaker 2>and indeed he's touched upon the Martin Luther King Junior assassination,

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<v Speaker 2>the Robert F. Kennedy assassination, the John F. Kennedy assassination,

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that we have now become accustomed to call

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<v Speaker 2>UAPs instead of UFOs through book called Unidentified, and another

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<v Speaker 2>piece of contextual history creating chaos. Heavy focus on well, Russia,

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<v Speaker 2>the Soviet Union for sure, but there were other things

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<v Speaker 2>going on there and we had to talk about that

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<v Speaker 2>due to the links of Putin and his recent need

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<v Speaker 2>to be discussed in mainstream media, his actions, the current

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<v Speaker 2>conflict in Ukraine. All of that and the past history,

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<v Speaker 2>plus the links to various other topics. It was necessary

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<v Speaker 2>to discuss that. But also Larry covers the US and

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<v Speaker 2>other individuals creating chaos so to speak, on the globe

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<v Speaker 2>plus in denial. How about the way that you know

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<v Speaker 2>these supposedly less than publicly observed actions of various agencies

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<v Speaker 2>and military operations took place? And exactly how covert operations

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<v Speaker 2>function for better or worse different time periods. Why why

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<v Speaker 2>other nations had more success than well we, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the proverbial we did in recent history. Look, I just

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<v Speaker 2>tried to capitalize it all, and I can't do it.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you go to larrydsh Hancock dot com, you

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<v Speaker 2>can not only follow Larry's blog and his most recent

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<v Speaker 2>pieces of work, but you can roll it back and

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<v Speaker 2>learn more from Larry Hancock than you can from I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know just about any sort of collegiate experience you

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<v Speaker 2>might have in a class that's supposed to focus on

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<v Speaker 2>modern contemporary history, the intelligence agencies and how you know, political, psychological,

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<v Speaker 2>and indeed covert warfare are conducted on the planet. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think you're going to find a class or even

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<v Speaker 2>a set of classes that will handle it as well

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<v Speaker 2>as Larry Hancock has throughout the years and the many

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<v Speaker 2>volumes that he has written, and by the way, I

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<v Speaker 2>recommend all of them one way or another depends on

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<v Speaker 2>which point of entry you want to travel when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes into getting into this topic. And the stuff is

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<v Speaker 2>written so that an academic can certainly learn from it,

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<v Speaker 2>so that a higher education can get value out of it.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's all so accessible and understood if you are

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<v Speaker 2>willing to dive into the complex pool that Larry has

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<v Speaker 2>by doing his research, by investigating things, by revealing documentation,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Larrydashhancock dot com, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, follow his work, follow in there, but also

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<v Speaker 2>you could follow him throughout the years on the Ocelly effect.

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<v Speaker 2>So now that I'm done with that very long arduous,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, introduction, Larry, Sorry, I know I'm long winded,

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<v Speaker 2>But how are you doing tonight, sir?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing fine. And that introduction kind of reminded me

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<v Speaker 3>why at one point I decided I was done and

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<v Speaker 3>would not need to write another book. But you know, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>I did get over that, but I know I'm doing fine.

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<v Speaker 3>We're still we're still working with publisher getting the things

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<v Speaker 3>wrapped up. We've I think as we talked about, we

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<v Speaker 3>have are adding a fairly large photo section to the book,

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<v Speaker 3>and believe it or not, that's that's led to some

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<v Speaker 3>more insights about oustl We've actually learned some things with

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<v Speaker 3>those photos. But we've also learned that getting photo rights

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<v Speaker 3>for book publication is a challenge unto itself. So yep,

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<v Speaker 3>still very much involved with getting the the books written,

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<v Speaker 3>now involved in getting it out.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the book's written, it is available again for pre

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<v Speaker 2>sale at Amazon, and certainly going to remind people as

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<v Speaker 2>to where they can get that a few times. But

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<v Speaker 2>again in the show notes with the podcast, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. You will see it there. But Larry, how

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<v Speaker 2>about we start with the photos then, which is an

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<v Speaker 2>odd place to begin. This is kind of unique. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you've had photos and other books that you have written.

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<v Speaker 2>For sure, you've certainly released other interesting photographic pieces before.

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<v Speaker 2>But tell me what is going on here with the

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<v Speaker 2>added challenge and could you give us a hint or

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<v Speaker 2>at least one of those new pieces of information that

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<v Speaker 2>you gathered from this process of getting authorization to reprint,

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<v Speaker 2>to use, et cetera, these photographic pieces, could you give

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<v Speaker 2>us I don't know, an anecdote or two about this

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<v Speaker 2>to take a snapshot.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think one of the things that is different

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<v Speaker 3>in previous books. Sure we had had pictures of people,

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<v Speaker 3>but we weren't really doing what we're doing in this book.

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<v Speaker 3>In this book, we're telling Oswell's story. This is very

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<v Speaker 3>much a picture of Oswell as an individual, Oswell as

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<v Speaker 3>a character, the development of Lee R. V. Oswold, issues

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<v Speaker 3>of continuity and his activities and his agenda. So it's

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<v Speaker 3>a very personal story. So, you know, it's just in

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<v Speaker 3>other books we might have shown one picture of a

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<v Speaker 3>David Phillips or you know, a different CI officer, or

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<v Speaker 3>you know, even in the King books. Yeah, we had

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<v Speaker 3>some crime scene photos in the King books. But this

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<v Speaker 3>is a different kind of book because it's a very

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<v Speaker 3>personal book about an individual. And so for this book,

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<v Speaker 3>we have to deal with this individual's life history. We

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<v Speaker 3>have to capture it in a way that for example,

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<v Speaker 3>the Warrant Commission did not I mean, everyone who's familiar

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<v Speaker 3>with the JFK assassination was imprinted by Life magazine and

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<v Speaker 3>by the cover photo of Life magazine with Lee Harvey

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<v Speaker 3>Oswald holding rifle and wearing a pistol and a pistol belt.

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<v Speaker 3>You know that that imprinted everyone starting right after the

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<v Speaker 3>assassination and for decades. This is the immag of Lee

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<v Speaker 3>Harvey Oswell. Obviously, you know, potentially a violent person. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>a guy who can be expected to have shot the prayer.

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<v Speaker 3>You know that established the perception of Lee Harvey Oswell.

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<v Speaker 3>What we needed to do is go back and show

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<v Speaker 3>the pictures that the Warrant Commission had, some of them

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<v Speaker 3>of Lee Harvey Oswell as an individual. Pictures of Lee

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<v Speaker 3>Harvey Oswell is a as a child, as a teenager,

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<v Speaker 3>as a as a marine inside Russia. Right now, let

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<v Speaker 3>me important pictures. So from a developmental standpoint, not that

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<v Speaker 3>not that some of those pictures have not appeared before,

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<v Speaker 3>but presenting them in a chronological fashion to support the

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<v Speaker 3>story is much different than we've done in any other

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<v Speaker 3>book that I've been involved.

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<v Speaker 2>With, that you've been involved with. Right, So, what I

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<v Speaker 2>was going to point out is that, obviously, like a

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<v Speaker 2>book like Robert Crodin's In Search of Lee Harvey Oswald,

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<v Speaker 2>which I have no problem adding a plug too here,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's one of the essential pieces of reference

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<v Speaker 2>if you want a physical reference book in your hands.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, from a photographic standpoint, it gives you a

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<v Speaker 2>great deal of reference when it comes to Oswald, and

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<v Speaker 2>it gives you a lot of stuff that wasn't seen elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Now there is the expose aspect of this, and you

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<v Speaker 2>can show many fascinating things in other books, in other ways, etc.

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<v Speaker 2>Much like in a film a motion picture way. For

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<v Speaker 2>probably three decades, the one film that was taken by

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<v Speaker 2>the US governments as a documentary of those last three

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<v Speaker 2>days right or those last two days, whatever it was

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<v Speaker 2>in Dallas, was whether people knew it or not, injected

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<v Speaker 2>into nearly every single motion picture documentary in even theatrical films,

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<v Speaker 2>if the Kennedy assassination was mentioned, if it was meant

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<v Speaker 2>to be shown in a photographic way, two guarantees that

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<v Speaker 2>you had in the world of documentaries and films. And

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<v Speaker 2>the one guarantee was the use of that film by

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<v Speaker 2>the US government, and the other was the still shot

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<v Speaker 2>which came from Mary Mormon. Those two things were guaranteed

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<v Speaker 2>images no matter what direction you went in. If you

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<v Speaker 2>were a warrant commissioned supporter, if the whole point of

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<v Speaker 2>it was to say Russia did it, it didn't matter

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<v Speaker 2>what direction you were coming from. These things were universally inserted,

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<v Speaker 2>so they became part of the overall image. And that

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<v Speaker 2>happened because of the publication in a lot of books.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of stills became absolutely associated to xyz et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>Like Lee rvy Oswald's mug shot is probably one of

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<v Speaker 2>the most famous mug shots in the world, right, even

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<v Speaker 2>though we've seen many other celebrities, many other people of

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<v Speaker 2>note or notoriety or notorious right notoriety one way or

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<v Speaker 2>the other. We've seen a lot of their mug shots,

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<v Speaker 2>but that mug shot was just you universal, It was

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<v Speaker 2>there everywhere. Now that in mind, there is a big

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<v Speaker 2>difference between utilizing the pictures to do something, to tell

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<v Speaker 2>a story, to actually weave through a narrative, or to

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<v Speaker 2>create one with the pictures. There's a big difference between

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<v Speaker 2>doing that and simply attaching them, simply continuing on and

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<v Speaker 2>showing continuity in a in a way with that universe.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say of media, and I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people's books have wasted time, you know, and and not

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<v Speaker 2>not yours, necessarily, not anybody by name, but I will

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<v Speaker 2>say a lot of people have wasted time simply attaching

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<v Speaker 2>things that you've already seen elsewhere one way or another,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's been done in a haphazard fashion. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>in some cases people drew their own conclusions from images

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<v Speaker 2>that were printed here there the other place, and in

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<v Speaker 2>other cases people had to go and search things out

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<v Speaker 2>and say, oh, look, in Jesse Curry's book, this part

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<v Speaker 2>isn't redacted from a photo, which everywhere else it is.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, stuff like that happened, But for the most part,

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<v Speaker 2>people were attaching photos without utilizing them in and of

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<v Speaker 2>themselves to do a job. What it sounds like to

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<v Speaker 2>me you've done is very thoughtfully created a photographic section

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00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:27.399
<v Speaker 2>which actually serves purposes plural and you know, in some

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<v Speaker 2>cases it might be to show people something brand new,

258
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.440
<v Speaker 2>but it's never that simple. It's not just I have

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00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:35.519
<v Speaker 2>a couple of pictures in here that are really important

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<v Speaker 2>and brand new. Because, believe it or not, there was

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<v Speaker 2>a time when I used to purchase books simply because

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted that new picture that wasn't available anywhere else,

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<v Speaker 2>and I would have to suffer through or sit there

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<v Speaker 2>and ignore the text of a book because I simply

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<v Speaker 2>wanted the photo section. I mean, that's the truth. About

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of books I purchased in my life. I

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<v Speaker 2>simply wanted to look at this thing, access it, find out,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, is there a credit given for it? Where

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00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.400
<v Speaker 2>could I obtain a copy of this thing? And in

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<v Speaker 2>some cases I would literally physically buy a book simply

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<v Speaker 2>so I had it and I could examine what they had,

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<v Speaker 2>determine what generation it was, et cetera, et cetera. Stuff

273
00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:17.960
<v Speaker 2>like that I used to have to do, but not

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<v Speaker 2>because these pictures told a story, but because the pictures

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<v Speaker 2>in and of themselves may or may not have been

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<v Speaker 2>relevant to something that could be investigated. So what you're

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<v Speaker 2>telling me is you're not giving me the needle, the haystacks,

278
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:34.920
<v Speaker 2>and no map. You're actually providing us with a photo

279
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.240
<v Speaker 2>section that serves multiple purposes. Is that right?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? And it has to be in a developmental fashion, man,

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00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:48.680
<v Speaker 3>for to treat Oswald as a as a new unique individually,

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<v Speaker 3>we have to develop him and we have to watch,

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00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:57.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, his agenda develop, and we can see that,

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00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.839
<v Speaker 3>we can write about it, but we can see it

285
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<v Speaker 3>letter if we see some examples of what's going on

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00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.759
<v Speaker 3>with him at a given time. Two or three examples

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00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:12.759
<v Speaker 3>of this in nineteen sixty three, nineteen sixty two, nineteen

288
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<v Speaker 3>sixty three. If there's always been a lot of speculation

289
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.359
<v Speaker 3>of well, it's clear that Oswell was making copies of

290
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:25.839
<v Speaker 3>things at work. He was developing his photographic skills while

291
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.480
<v Speaker 3>he was working at Jaggerstowell. You know, is that suspicious?

292
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:33.839
<v Speaker 3>Why was he doing that? Why did he Why was

293
00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.119
<v Speaker 3>this important to him? Is this like some kind of

294
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.559
<v Speaker 3>training as a spy? Well, he already was in Russia.

295
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.400
<v Speaker 3>What's going on with that? Well, it makes much more

296
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:45.200
<v Speaker 3>sense when you can show letters that are written to

297
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:49.359
<v Speaker 3>Oswald from the people that he was sending the materials

298
00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.400
<v Speaker 3>that he was developing those skills for. When you see

299
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<v Speaker 3>a letter from the worker saying, dear mister Oswald, thank

300
00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:01.079
<v Speaker 3>you for sending us copies of this and this. Your

301
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:05.200
<v Speaker 3>photographic work is great. We appreciate your volunteering. You know,

302
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.359
<v Speaker 3>that makes some sense out of what's going on with

303
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.039
<v Speaker 3>Oswell at that point in time. It's very very important.

304
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:18.079
<v Speaker 3>Another thing we often and we couldn't put all the

305
00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.359
<v Speaker 3>pictures that were of interest in of course we're limited,

306
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.279
<v Speaker 3>but we often don't see the other side of Oswall.

307
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:31.000
<v Speaker 3>I've now seen by looking at photo collections pictures or

308
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.359
<v Speaker 3>letters written to him after his return from the Soviet

309
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.839
<v Speaker 3>Union that were actually positive, like, oh, people are saying

310
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:40.839
<v Speaker 3>you're a trader. I don't believe that. I believe that

311
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:43.920
<v Speaker 3>you went there for a reason, and I believe Americans

312
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.240
<v Speaker 3>should be able to travel where they want to. Oswell

313
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:51.640
<v Speaker 3>did get reinforcement. We don't ever talk about or see that.

314
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:57.000
<v Speaker 3>And in the spring of nineteen sixty three we talk

315
00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.200
<v Speaker 3>about the fact that, you know, you can see how

316
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.559
<v Speaker 3>his his beliefs are developing. He was actually invited to

317
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.759
<v Speaker 3>speak at as a Jesuits training school, right, and he

318
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.960
<v Speaker 3>went delivered a presentation. We've all known that, We've talked

319
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.839
<v Speaker 3>about it happening. In the book. We show you a

320
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:17.400
<v Speaker 3>picture of one of several thank you letters that were

321
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.440
<v Speaker 3>written to him by people who listen to that speech

322
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:25.119
<v Speaker 3>that elaborate on what they learned from him. They're real

323
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:30.359
<v Speaker 3>positive reactions to him. Again, Oswell was not a loner.

324
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.559
<v Speaker 3>Oswell was interacting with people. He was actually reaching out

325
00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:39.720
<v Speaker 3>and he was getting feedback as his own personal agenda developed, right,

326
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.400
<v Speaker 3>And that kind of gives you a sense of what's

327
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.000
<v Speaker 3>going on with him. But you know, when you talk

328
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.759
<v Speaker 3>about those things piecemeal, it's different than when you see

329
00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:51.559
<v Speaker 3>them in a serious developmental series in the book book.

330
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Well right, And I think that there's also the personal aspect,

331
00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:59.160
<v Speaker 2>which is often missing because people ascribe a certain personality

332
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.519
<v Speaker 2>to him and then they are stuck trying to stick

333
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.440
<v Speaker 2>to that. I think in some cases, you know, he

334
00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:08.079
<v Speaker 2>could be producing photos not only to seek out that

335
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.319
<v Speaker 2>positive reinforcement, you know, but to interact with some of

336
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:13.640
<v Speaker 2>those people. Sure you love those pictures, I'll send you

337
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.240
<v Speaker 2>some more. He might have also started to ascribe importance

338
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:20.440
<v Speaker 2>to certain things because people have asked questions about what

339
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:23.119
<v Speaker 2>it is he chose to retain and you know, and

340
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.279
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that over the years, and there's been weird

341
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:30.880
<v Speaker 2>statements about it. Well, he kept this because operationally, not necessarily,

342
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:32.759
<v Speaker 2>it may have been chuck.

343
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.400
<v Speaker 3>I hate to break in, but I got to tell

344
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.559
<v Speaker 3>you that's what we learned by going through the photo section.

345
00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:43.960
<v Speaker 3>Oz Will kept everything, got a receipt for a subscription.

346
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:49.079
<v Speaker 3>Oswa was a pack rat. If anybody thinks that he

347
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.880
<v Speaker 3>was selective in what he collected, no, it's amazing what

348
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.960
<v Speaker 3>you find in the materials taken from his private possessions.

349
00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.839
<v Speaker 3>The kind of junk stuff he read aimed. You know,

350
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:05.559
<v Speaker 3>it's like everything, every piece of paper, it's it's all there.

351
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:12.240
<v Speaker 4>So I had not fully realized that until I started

352
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:19.119
<v Speaker 4>looking at again samples of that the Dallas police had collected,

353
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.640
<v Speaker 4>like I say, receipts and copies of his you.

354
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:28.319
<v Speaker 3>Know, tax payments and copies of this and that, and

355
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:33.759
<v Speaker 3>and it's amazing. You see his reading material. Everybody, Oh,

356
00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:36.599
<v Speaker 3>we don't know what Oswald really thought. Yeah, if you

357
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.640
<v Speaker 3>look at all the stuff he was reading this he

358
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.079
<v Speaker 3>kept it off. As a matter of fact, apparently he

359
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:45.480
<v Speaker 3>made sure that when he went to Russia he left

360
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.640
<v Speaker 3>it in a place where he could retrieve it when

361
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:53.000
<v Speaker 3>he got back. Photos a huge photo collection. Guy had

362
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.119
<v Speaker 3>a photo album. They didn't even have time to photo everything.

363
00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 3>They took dozens and dozens of individual photos and then

364
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:06.640
<v Speaker 3>shot of his photo album. It's really I had not

365
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.359
<v Speaker 3>really appreciated his pack rat nature and the fact that

366
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.839
<v Speaker 3>he constantly took photos. We think of the backyard photos

367
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:20.960
<v Speaker 3>and maybe seen something unusual and anomalous. No, no, he

368
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:22.640
<v Speaker 3>took photos all the time.

369
00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he actually an honest interest in photography. And again

370
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.799
<v Speaker 2>that is way different than what somebody who has an

371
00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:31.839
<v Speaker 2>interest in photography would take today, and even if you

372
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>wind back thirty years, that's a whole different animal from now.

373
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:39.839
<v Speaker 2>And also from his time period, they didn't have the

374
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.799
<v Speaker 2>Kodak disc, you know what I'm saying. In the nineteen sixties,

375
00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:47.119
<v Speaker 2>they didn't have, you know, the disposable cameras like we

376
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:50.240
<v Speaker 2>had for a while when film was still a thing.

377
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:52.319
<v Speaker 2>When was the last time you knew somebody to actually

378
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.839
<v Speaker 2>take film to remember, this was the thing for about

379
00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:58.079
<v Speaker 2>what twenty years. Taking your film to the pharmacy was

380
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:01.519
<v Speaker 2>commonplace in a lot of places because because cheap cameras

381
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:04.359
<v Speaker 2>were everywhere. No, there was a point at which you

382
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.720
<v Speaker 2>had to have either an expensive camera or you know,

383
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:09.759
<v Speaker 2>or you had to very much take care of some

384
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.720
<v Speaker 2>weird little thing that did produce photos. But either way,

385
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.920
<v Speaker 2>your interest in photography was easily seen in the sixties

386
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.000
<v Speaker 2>and seventies and eighties based on what you had and

387
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.400
<v Speaker 2>what you were willing to use. Now, on top of that,

388
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.920
<v Speaker 2>if he did something, it caught something photographically that he

389
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:31.799
<v Speaker 2>thought was significant, he would make multiple copies. See that's

390
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.119
<v Speaker 2>what I see with the you know, well, gee, was

391
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.039
<v Speaker 2>he using you know, his his machines at work to

392
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:40.279
<v Speaker 2>do stuff? And well, maybe he was, and not because

393
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.160
<v Speaker 2>it was secret work and this and that, but because

394
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:46.519
<v Speaker 2>it was kind of a cheapskate too. That's something I've

395
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:48.440
<v Speaker 2>heard from many people that knew him that he didn't

396
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:50.839
<v Speaker 2>really if he could figure out a way to not

397
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.640
<v Speaker 2>spend some money to be cruval, he definitely did it.

398
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.759
<v Speaker 2>So I'm thinking to myself, just like people did when,

399
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, copy machines were a big deal. You know

400
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.599
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people used to go to work and

401
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:03.519
<v Speaker 2>have a copy machine at work and you didn't have

402
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:06.599
<v Speaker 2>one at home. They weren't something that was usually at home.

403
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.759
<v Speaker 2>A lot of people would make copies at work and

404
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:12.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, just the copy machine just to make a

405
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.000
<v Speaker 2>paper copies. So I need to make copies. I'm gonna

406
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.119
<v Speaker 2>have to go find a place that makes copies. That

407
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 2>used to be a thing folks. And they would go, no, no, no,

408
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I'll take care of it. I have a copy machine

409
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:25.000
<v Speaker 2>at work. And then they started and really people got

410
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.160
<v Speaker 2>fired over this and all kinds of things overuse of

411
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.160
<v Speaker 2>the copy machine. You know, whether it was making flyers

412
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.960
<v Speaker 2>for your kids school event or it was something else.

413
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.799
<v Speaker 2>You would get told, oh, you cannot use this for

414
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.039
<v Speaker 2>personal use. That was the thing and that was just

415
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.279
<v Speaker 2>photo that was like the copies of things on paper.

416
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.039
<v Speaker 2>When you had access to photographic copies. Well, I knew

417
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:47.359
<v Speaker 2>people that did that too, and believe me, they would

418
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:50.920
<v Speaker 2>figure out ways to get free photoprints and extra sets

419
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:54.440
<v Speaker 2>of prints sent to people or to themselves. There's a

420
00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:57.279
<v Speaker 2>whole thing that goes on here, and mister cheapskate, if

421
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:58.680
<v Speaker 2>you could figure out a way to kind of do

422
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.240
<v Speaker 2>it not get in trouble, maybe he did. I don't know.

423
00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I've never looked at those work records because I don't

424
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:05.759
<v Speaker 2>think anybody has gotten him entirely, have they.

425
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.119
<v Speaker 3>He did not get in trouble, Okay not what as

426
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:11.920
<v Speaker 3>a matter of fact, and I think it's important to

427
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.240
<v Speaker 3>point out he made himself fairly skilled. And if you

428
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:18.359
<v Speaker 3>want to talk about how history might have changed when

429
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:20.880
<v Speaker 3>he came back to Dallas in the fall of nineteen

430
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.720
<v Speaker 3>sixty three, the first thing he did when he got

431
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:27.640
<v Speaker 3>back to Dallas is started applying for jobs all over

432
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.279
<v Speaker 3>the place. And he actually we have the documents that

433
00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:35.440
<v Speaker 3>show when he had gone to Mexico City he listed

434
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:39.000
<v Speaker 3>his occupation as photographer. When he came back, one of

435
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.440
<v Speaker 3>the first things he did was to apply at other

436
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:47.880
<v Speaker 3>photographic processing houses like Jaggerstovell, and I've sent in his

437
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.920
<v Speaker 3>copy of letter. They were interested. He had a job offered.

438
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:55.200
<v Speaker 3>They wanted to hire him, and just on his bad luck,

439
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.200
<v Speaker 3>the gotten manager that wanted to hire him called Jaggers

440
00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:02.720
<v Speaker 3>on a reference that he had listed and happened that

441
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:04.880
<v Speaker 3>day to get the manager who was in and the

442
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.039
<v Speaker 3>manager said, well, this work was fine, except you know,

443
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:11.880
<v Speaker 3>it made people nervous sometimes here because he spoke Russian,

444
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.319
<v Speaker 3>and they didn't hire him. You know, I think what

445
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.640
<v Speaker 3>have happened if that manager had just hired Lee Harvey

446
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.559
<v Speaker 3>Oswell into a photo processing plan again in Dallas, in

447
00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:26.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, November nineteen sixty.

448
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Three, he certainly wouldn't have time, you know, ostensibly, off

449
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:31.880
<v Speaker 2>the top of my head, probably wouldn't have time to

450
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:36.640
<v Speaker 2>go refinishing floors at the school book depository, you know

451
00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:39.279
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, which is his original work. Thing was

452
00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:42.359
<v Speaker 2>he was brought over there temporarily right in order to

453
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:46.039
<v Speaker 2>help finish the floors, if I remember correctly, that was

454
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:47.400
<v Speaker 2>that was one of the main jobs.

455
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:49.839
<v Speaker 3>And then they had assigned some of the longer term

456
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.359
<v Speaker 3>workers there to do the floors, and he was brought

457
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.759
<v Speaker 3>in temporarily until they finished the floors to do the route,

458
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:01.079
<v Speaker 3>because they were they wanted to retain those guys. They

459
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:03.680
<v Speaker 3>were long term employees, and I think they probably trusted

460
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:06.759
<v Speaker 3>him a little bit more. They had worked in both buildings,

461
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.759
<v Speaker 3>but he was kind of a temporary slot as a

462
00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 3>book filler while they were working on the flooring.

463
00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:14.799
<v Speaker 2>Well, I know it was brought up while he was

464
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:17.319
<v Speaker 2>being hired that that was one of the reasons for it, right,

465
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:22.319
<v Speaker 2>that they needed extra people because of this redoing the floors. Yeah,

466
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:23.960
<v Speaker 2>and then yeah, they did make him in order for

467
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying that's all he started at. I'm just

468
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:28.440
<v Speaker 2>saying that seems to me like he wouldn't have time

469
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.519
<v Speaker 2>for that if he had gotten a job in the

470
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.960
<v Speaker 2>first graphic field, where they also would have paid him more.

471
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, and that's the kind of job he wanted.

472
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.960
<v Speaker 3>He wouldn't have been looking for more jobs, we know

473
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.279
<v Speaker 3>than in November he was looking for other jobs. He

474
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:48.440
<v Speaker 3>interviewed for other jobs. But again, just to get back

475
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:54.240
<v Speaker 3>to basically the two points Oswald, what we try to

476
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:58.160
<v Speaker 3>do in the book is give the picture of Oswald

477
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:01.039
<v Speaker 3>to the Warrant Committee, the warret Commisson had much of

478
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:05.000
<v Speaker 3>this information, it just didn't match what the message that

479
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:09.400
<v Speaker 3>they wanted to deliver. So the characterization of Oswald, you

480
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:12.079
<v Speaker 3>know what, we faced the fact that there are two

481
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:16.759
<v Speaker 3>contra characterizations of Oswalt, one by the Warren Commission that

482
00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:20.720
<v Speaker 3>wants to present him a certain way, you know, another

483
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:24.799
<v Speaker 3>within the conspiracy community, which has kind of got its

484
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.920
<v Speaker 3>own ways of presenting everything he does is being suspicious.

485
00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:32.160
<v Speaker 3>Nobody really has dealt with Lee Oswall is just okay,

486
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.240
<v Speaker 3>this is Lee Harvey Oswald, this is this is his character,

487
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:40.319
<v Speaker 3>is his development, This is his agenda, not anybody else's agenda.

488
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:44.240
<v Speaker 3>How do we know that? Well, you can see that

489
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:47.359
<v Speaker 3>when you start looking at his correspondence, when you start

490
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:52.240
<v Speaker 3>looking at his possessions, his job application, and long story

491
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:57.000
<v Speaker 3>short that but that's one of the reasons the photo

492
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.119
<v Speaker 3>section in the book is to present Oswald in a

493
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:04.960
<v Speaker 3>way that the Warrant Commission did not and could they

494
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:10.519
<v Speaker 3>intentionally avoided a real life picture of Lee Harvey Oswald.

495
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, And as you very fairly stated, Okay, let's be

496
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:20.240
<v Speaker 2>extremely fair here. It's not just the Warren Commission and

497
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:26.240
<v Speaker 2>the official explanations that seized upon a particular either agenda

498
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:32.039
<v Speaker 2>or type of agenda to move forward with really truly

499
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.720
<v Speaker 2>not examining things from the point of view that we

500
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of all wish they would have, you know, in

501
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 2>a perfect world and open investigation, something that you know

502
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:46.079
<v Speaker 2>goes after this from all angles. Let's let the information

503
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:49.920
<v Speaker 2>build the narrative, as opposed to building a prosecutor's brief

504
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.000
<v Speaker 2>and then filling in the blanks, which it very much

505
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>seems like they did. So let's look at your table

506
00:30:55.720 --> 00:31:00.279
<v Speaker 2>of contents, okay, And I think what's fascinating here as

507
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:02.839
<v Speaker 2>I look at it is that this was a very

508
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:07.839
<v Speaker 2>intentional outline that allows us to do precisely what you're

509
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.519
<v Speaker 2>talking about, which is step back. Yes, we can use

510
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.000
<v Speaker 2>all that information most likely or not all of it,

511
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:18.160
<v Speaker 2>but maybe a whole lot of it that was developed

512
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.759
<v Speaker 2>by people that had agendas. But let's temper this properly

513
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.359
<v Speaker 2>and go at it from the terms like I'm going

514
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:27.880
<v Speaker 2>to read off to everybody if you don't mind, I'd

515
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:31.799
<v Speaker 2>like to, in an uninterrupted way, read off the chapters

516
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:34.279
<v Speaker 2>here that you've given me in a list and not

517
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.799
<v Speaker 2>even really break them up, just pause and give people

518
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:40.680
<v Speaker 2>an idea of what the overall narrative that is being

519
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.200
<v Speaker 2>built here is would that be okay with you?

520
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:44.279
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

521
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:44.599
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

522
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.599
<v Speaker 3>And one thing that we'll do check is clearly show

523
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 3>that this is actually two books and one on the

524
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:56.200
<v Speaker 3>first book is Lee Harvey Oswald and the second book

525
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 3>is Lee Harvey Oswald on November twenty second.

526
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Ah, okay, so really we begin anew when the chapter

527
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:10.480
<v Speaker 2>actually says November twenty second slash alternative views. Is that right?

528
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:11.880
<v Speaker 3>That would be it?

529
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay? Now, just one quick question before I read this off,

530
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:18.599
<v Speaker 2>and I do want to read it off und uninterrupted

531
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.839
<v Speaker 2>as best I can. I won't even interrupt myself, which

532
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.759
<v Speaker 2>I am likely to do on occasion. But before I

533
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.079
<v Speaker 2>do that, does the photo section cover the entirety of

534
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:33.720
<v Speaker 2>this two book format or is it really focused in

535
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:35.119
<v Speaker 2>one area in particular?

536
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.880
<v Speaker 3>Or what the photo section? It's broken into two parts.

537
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:44.920
<v Speaker 3>One is the first section is Lee Harvey Osweald basically

538
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.799
<v Speaker 3>before Dallas. In other words, Lee Harvey Oswell as a child,

539
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:55.839
<v Speaker 3>as a teenager in the Marines, in Russia. This is

540
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:01.519
<v Speaker 3>Lee Harvey Oswell up to you know, his return to

541
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:05.680
<v Speaker 3>the United States, and that it ends with I and

542
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:09.240
<v Speaker 3>Marina and baby June coming back to the United States.

543
00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:13.920
<v Speaker 3>The second section is Lee Harvey Oswald essentially in nineteen

544
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.519
<v Speaker 3>sixty two nineteen sixty three, what's going on with him

545
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:21.759
<v Speaker 3>specifically during that time period, you know, as the best

546
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:25.319
<v Speaker 3>we can that does extend into yeah, what was he

547
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:28.720
<v Speaker 3>doing in the spring? Was what happens at the time

548
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:30.920
<v Speaker 3>of his arrest? You know this is but it's not

549
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:33.960
<v Speaker 3>a book about the assassination per se. It is a

550
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.799
<v Speaker 3>book about Lee Harvey Oswald, covering what happened to him

551
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:44.440
<v Speaker 3>on November twenty second, quite frankly through his death and funeral.

552
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:51.000
<v Speaker 2>So two sections, Okay, Well, to be honest with you, Larry, I, personally,

553
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.960
<v Speaker 2>because of that photo, section would break it into three.

554
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.640
<v Speaker 2>And I'll tell you why. Because the transitional time here,

555
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:03.720
<v Speaker 2>when you get up to him returning and him returning

556
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:08.000
<v Speaker 2>with Marina, it seems to me as though that could

557
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:12.440
<v Speaker 2>end the story there. But then we have, you know,

558
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.920
<v Speaker 2>what you call a turn to activism. And I'm going

559
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 2>to read all these chapters in a row and give

560
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.400
<v Speaker 2>people an idea of the overall singular narrative. But it

561
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:23.800
<v Speaker 2>seems like if you if you break there and then

562
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:27.280
<v Speaker 2>keep what's there until we get to November twenty second,

563
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.639
<v Speaker 2>it almost seems like three sections is appropriate.

564
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:32.800
<v Speaker 3>What are your thoughts already at the publisher.

565
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's already at the publisher, But I'm just asking you.

566
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, could one not Heah.

567
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.079
<v Speaker 3>Look, there aren't actually enough pictures, I mean quite frankly,

568
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:43.280
<v Speaker 3>unless you decide to go into all of the pictures

569
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:46.760
<v Speaker 3>that we all know so well from the assassination itself,

570
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:51.679
<v Speaker 3>and we feel people have seen that. You know, we're

571
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:56.159
<v Speaker 3>not dealing with the shooting of the president, so we're

572
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.159
<v Speaker 3>looking at pictures of just Lee Harvey Oswald.

573
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because, believe it or not, I think if you

574
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:04.639
<v Speaker 2>just take a look at the illustrations of Groden's book

575
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.320
<v Speaker 2>and you line this up. Now, I haven't seen the

576
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:09.039
<v Speaker 2>photo section, by the way, guys, so I would like

577
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:11.519
<v Speaker 2>to see it. But it almost feels like to me,

578
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.280
<v Speaker 2>I could break this into three sections myself at home.

579
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:16.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, I have the book. Now, I can do

580
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:18.800
<v Speaker 2>what I want. I can break it into three sections

581
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.400
<v Speaker 2>and just take out my trusty copy of In Search

582
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.880
<v Speaker 2>of Lee Harvey Oswald by Robert Grodin and lay his

583
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.159
<v Speaker 2>picture is not necessarily his text, but his photographs alongside

584
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:30.760
<v Speaker 2>of this, and I might be able to fill in

585
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.559
<v Speaker 2>the blanks. What do you think of that?

586
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:37.599
<v Speaker 3>That that you could that reminds me of the Christmas

587
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:42.199
<v Speaker 3>that I spent taking the book about photographs of that

588
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 3>day in Dallas, you know, very very expensive hardbound book

589
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:50.480
<v Speaker 3>and cutting it apart to re sequence everything until I

590
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:54.840
<v Speaker 3>understood the motorcade and my wife came out and went,

591
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:58.119
<v Speaker 3>didn't you just pay forty dollars for that book that

592
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 3>you're now cutting apart? And I went, dear, maybe I

593
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:04.800
<v Speaker 3>should just go wrap your prison, you know, so I

594
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.239
<v Speaker 3>can picture doing that check. I really can't.

595
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Larry. It sounds like you and I had a similar

596
00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:13.239
<v Speaker 2>Christmas once, except my book was fifty dollars instead of forty,

597
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:19.039
<v Speaker 2>and my horrified was it let's see wife, my horrified

598
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.679
<v Speaker 2>excuse me, my horrified girlfriend at the time was sitting

599
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:28.079
<v Speaker 2>there saying, you bought two copies of this for that reason. Yeah,

600
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:29.840
<v Speaker 2>so you change that story a little bit. You and

601
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I did the same thing. Seriously. I took it, and

602
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to name the book, but.

603
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you can do it this time too. Feel free

604
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:36.960
<v Speaker 3>to buy two copies, no problem.

605
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.440
<v Speaker 2>So maybe I'll buy two copies of Larry's physical book

606
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:43.119
<v Speaker 2>and I'll reshape it but let's give you the overall

607
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.679
<v Speaker 2>singular narrative as laid out in the book, and you

608
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:48.000
<v Speaker 2>when once you have it to yourself, you could do

609
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:49.920
<v Speaker 2>it digitally on a computer, or you could do it

610
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.480
<v Speaker 2>by hand with a razor blade like I did. Or

611
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:55.119
<v Speaker 2>did you use rate the whole razor blade kind of

612
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:56.079
<v Speaker 2>thing and do that Larry?

613
00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:57.079
<v Speaker 5>Or no?

614
00:36:57.239 --> 00:36:59.199
<v Speaker 3>I think I just had a good cetus.

615
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:03.000
<v Speaker 2>There's either way it works. And then you just cut

616
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.800
<v Speaker 2>and paste yourself. And then your only problem becomes when

617
00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:08.519
<v Speaker 2>they have things on two sides. And then you got

618
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:10.840
<v Speaker 2>to sit there and go, well, is it primarily the

619
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:12.639
<v Speaker 2>thing on this side or this side that I want

620
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.159
<v Speaker 2>to make sure I have? And that becomes your only difficulty,

621
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:17.760
<v Speaker 2>and then you say to yourself, can I afford a

622
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:24.039
<v Speaker 2>third copy? So anyway, all of that fun aside, And

623
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:25.800
<v Speaker 2>by the way, yeah, we encourage you two or three

624
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:28.719
<v Speaker 2>copies of this. Go right ahead, cut them up, rearrange them,

625
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:31.679
<v Speaker 2>and you know, show people when they come to your house.

626
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:37.920
<v Speaker 2>This is my reformulated version of Larry's book. And I

627
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:39.320
<v Speaker 2>can also point you to a place to get a

628
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:42.519
<v Speaker 2>cheap copy of Groden's older book, So if you wanted to,

629
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:47.599
<v Speaker 2>you could intersperse this and create this unique thing. Anyway,

630
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:49.880
<v Speaker 2>now that I've given people an arts and crafts project, Larry,

631
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.880
<v Speaker 2>let's get to the narrative, the arts and crafts project

632
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.320
<v Speaker 2>that you've actually provided to all of us here to

633
00:37:55.719 --> 00:38:02.280
<v Speaker 2>mentally resemble, re edit, almost like the Jepersonian Bible, where

634
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.559
<v Speaker 2>he recut the Bible. I'm thinking of. You know, historically,

635
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.800
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting recutting it, but don't recut it until you've

636
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:13.519
<v Speaker 2>actually gone through it first. And here's why the book

637
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.159
<v Speaker 2>chapters are as follows. Are you ready for this, Larry,

638
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:20.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm ready all right, And it goes like this. Every

639
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:23.320
<v Speaker 2>pause will be the next chapter. But please continue on

640
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:26.800
<v Speaker 2>thinking of these as separate in your minds, guys, because

641
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:29.440
<v Speaker 2>again this theater of the mind. Little audio. So here

642
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:35.679
<v Speaker 2>we go. Viewpoints, character and development, Expanded horizons, Breaking Away,

643
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Russian Saga, Back in the USA, Lee and Marina, Marina

644
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and Lee, A turn to Activism, New Orleans, Oswald, Entangled,

645
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Oswald's Agenda, Mexico City, Oswald and the CIA. November twenty second,

646
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Alternative Views, dre Backstory, Independent Action, Oswald and Miami Cubans,

647
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:17.039
<v Speaker 2>Oswald and New Orleans Cubans. Framing Oswald under the Influence,

648
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:20.519
<v Speaker 2>and then the epilogue, and the only thing I added

649
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:25.239
<v Speaker 2>in there is and then the epilogue. Okay, the epilogue

650
00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:28.119
<v Speaker 2>is there, but the end then is all meat. So

651
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:31.239
<v Speaker 2>aside from that, and I'll put that exactly. I'll give

652
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:33.920
<v Speaker 2>you the chapters here in the Ocelli chat room. I

653
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know if I'll include them in the text of

654
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:40.199
<v Speaker 2>the podcast, but possibly I will. Why not, we can

655
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:42.239
<v Speaker 2>put it in the show notes, Larry, if that's okay

656
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:46.800
<v Speaker 2>with you, that's fine. But here are the chapters as

657
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>presented in there in the live Ocelli chat room. For

658
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.360
<v Speaker 2>those of you that you know might have missed something,

659
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.480
<v Speaker 2>you can also rewind it. But that to me lays

660
00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:59.039
<v Speaker 2>out the narrative. Although I still claim that we could

661
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:03.920
<v Speaker 2>break just before a turn to activism and end at

662
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Oswald and the CIA, and that is your middle section here,

663
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.840
<v Speaker 2>and you could break it into three. But you could

664
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:14.840
<v Speaker 2>probably do it without the photographs, honestly, and still break

665
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:17.800
<v Speaker 2>it into three. And you have a very very logical,

666
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:22.519
<v Speaker 2>step by step walk through the guy who is Lee

667
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Harvey Oswald, and it is a puzzle. It's still you know, look,

668
00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:30.159
<v Speaker 2>as much as you've assembled hear Larry, you must say

669
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.280
<v Speaker 2>it still resembles a puzzle as opposed to and entirely

670
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:39.559
<v Speaker 2>completely filled in absolutely perfect image in and of itself. Right,

671
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.480
<v Speaker 2>you still have some holes in this image, would you say,

672
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:45.960
<v Speaker 2>or do you think you've actually filled them all? In?

673
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:51.599
<v Speaker 3>Oh, certainly we have holes. In terms of the second

674
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:56.320
<v Speaker 3>half of the book, let's let's let's be realistic looking

675
00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:58.679
<v Speaker 3>at from a historical perspective.

676
00:40:58.199 --> 00:40:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Beginning at November twenty second.

677
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.679
<v Speaker 3>Book is well documented, Okay, I mean we have all

678
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:10.280
<v Speaker 3>sorts of records, photo we have Oswald's own possessions, his

679
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:16.719
<v Speaker 3>own writing characterizing Oswald historically as straightforward.

680
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:19.559
<v Speaker 2>The stuff collected by the Dallas Police, as well as

681
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:24.280
<v Speaker 2>things that have been collected afterwards over the years, even right,

682
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:28.280
<v Speaker 2>the additional backyard photograph, et cetera, et cetera. All of

683
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:33.199
<v Speaker 2>that stuff that has been collected cumulatively over time is

684
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:35.880
<v Speaker 2>documents the first half all the way up to we

685
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:39.239
<v Speaker 2>get to November twenty second, and alternative views all the

686
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.440
<v Speaker 2>way up to that part you're saying is very well

687
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:47.719
<v Speaker 2>documented photographically and otherwise. Yes, yeah, And I.

688
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.199
<v Speaker 3>Have no in my own mind, I have no problem

689
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:55.320
<v Speaker 3>with that being the correct story. One of the good points.

690
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:59.480
<v Speaker 3>And as with any history, yeah, we have Oswell in

691
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:04.599
<v Speaker 3>his own way. And fortunately Oswald wrote a lot, He

692
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:06.880
<v Speaker 3>made a lot of notes, he wrote a lot, he

693
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.039
<v Speaker 3>read a lot. We have all of that. It's it's

694
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:14.079
<v Speaker 3>impossible to think that that's all artificial. That is Oswald

695
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.559
<v Speaker 3>Oswell being the cheap skate that you're talking about. Oswald's

696
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:21.320
<v Speaker 3>saving the receipts for the books and magazines and subscriptions

697
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:25.800
<v Speaker 3>he ordered. Absolutely and Osweald, for example, No, he's not

698
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:29.119
<v Speaker 3>going to buy something for the household, but he's sure

699
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.000
<v Speaker 3>going to pay the subscription for those newsletters he wants

700
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:32.960
<v Speaker 3>to read every month.

701
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Right, So the worker, Yeah, the real person, right, the worker?

702
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>And what was the other one? Actually opens up in

703
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:41.079
<v Speaker 2>my head. I can't remember it.

704
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:42.159
<v Speaker 3>The militant, the.

705
00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Militant, The worker and the militant. Their subscriptions and renewals

706
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:47.880
<v Speaker 2>were certainly accounted for.

707
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:48.719
<v Speaker 6>Uh.

708
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:50.440
<v Speaker 2>If at any point in time they told him he

709
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.960
<v Speaker 2>had not paid for a subscription, he could probably provide

710
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:55.880
<v Speaker 2>them with a copy readily that he had and which

711
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:59.480
<v Speaker 2>year would you like it from? Very simple. Now. The

712
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:01.559
<v Speaker 2>other thing is that some of his stuff, it's not

713
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:07.320
<v Speaker 2>like everything was meticulously checked in orderly fashion, because a

714
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:09.159
<v Speaker 2>lot of people would point to, well, gee, you know,

715
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:12.119
<v Speaker 2>that was so weird that that highlight receipt, you know,

716
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:16.280
<v Speaker 2>from Mexico City turns up in a TV guide or whatever.

717
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:21.400
<v Speaker 2>To me, actually, as much as I don't believe Patricia

718
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:26.199
<v Speaker 2>and her story there or whatever, Priscilla what was her name, Patricia, Priscilla,

719
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:28.440
<v Speaker 2>I always mix that up.

720
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.280
<v Speaker 3>Priscilla McMillan, Priscilla McMillan.

721
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, you know why I keep going to Patricia because

722
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.480
<v Speaker 2>my ex wife and okay, sorry anyway, but Priscilla there

723
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:40.719
<v Speaker 2>McMillan finding this because she's living with Marina, right, and

724
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:43.360
<v Speaker 2>this is the evidence that pops up a long time later.

725
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:47.639
<v Speaker 2>People go, well, that's totally suspicious. Actually, in my mind,

726
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.320
<v Speaker 2>sometimes he didn't seem to be all that neat about this.

727
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:54.559
<v Speaker 2>He might have stuffed something like that into anything. It

728
00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:58.079
<v Speaker 2>might be a bookmarker in his creative writing later. Even

729
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.320
<v Speaker 2>though he's saving that receipt, it's not like everything was

730
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:03.760
<v Speaker 2>filed perfectly, you know what I mean.

731
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.239
<v Speaker 3>Well, and also look at it's not like Oswald has

732
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:10.119
<v Speaker 3>a home of his own where I come home and

733
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:13.079
<v Speaker 3>I go to my office and my filing capt well

734
00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:17.760
<v Speaker 3>is traveling my next points. He's got multiple apartments he's

735
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:21.159
<v Speaker 3>living in. He's leaving living at the YMCA. Then he

736
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:24.920
<v Speaker 3>goes over to the Paines where he wie, he's going

737
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:28.119
<v Speaker 3>to put something at the Pains you know. Yeah, Marina

738
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:31.719
<v Speaker 3>has a bedroom she sleeps in with the kids. His

739
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.639
<v Speaker 3>stuff is packed away, and you know where do you

740
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:36.039
<v Speaker 3>expect stuff is going to end?

741
00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, for better or worse. There's a whole book devoted

742
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.519
<v Speaker 2>to missus Payne's garage, Okay, for a reason, because he

743
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.880
<v Speaker 2>had a lot of stuff out there. I mean, so

744
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:48.400
<v Speaker 2>he's got stuff stored with his wife, he's not living

745
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:51.159
<v Speaker 2>with He's got stuff in his uh, you know, in

746
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:54.159
<v Speaker 2>his brother's hands. Looks like at a certain point his

747
00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:58.000
<v Speaker 2>mom has some things. He's got stuff kind of spread

748
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:02.599
<v Speaker 2>everywhere in a way because his own permanent residence where

749
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 2>he can reliably store. It's not like he can go, Look,

750
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:07.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna buy a file cabinet and I'm gonna put

751
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:10.679
<v Speaker 2>it where Lee, where are you putting it? Because you

752
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:12.880
<v Speaker 2>know you're moving from place to place, you're picking up

753
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:14.639
<v Speaker 2>your family. You went to New Orleans, you went back

754
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:18.519
<v Speaker 2>to Texas. What are we doing here? So he's got

755
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:22.119
<v Speaker 2>stuff that winds up spread around, not because he's trying to,

756
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:26.679
<v Speaker 2>but just based on circumstances as they emerge. Well, these

757
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:28.679
<v Speaker 2>things get packed up. And I don't know about you,

758
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:31.760
<v Speaker 2>but if you've ever had somebody assist you with packing

759
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.840
<v Speaker 2>your things when you've gone to move somewhere, oh, there's

760
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:39.480
<v Speaker 2>a whole unpredictable level of where stuff can end up. Right,

761
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:42.559
<v Speaker 2>So the idea that something might have been stuffed into

762
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.400
<v Speaker 2>a TV guide or whatever else, as much as I

763
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:47.800
<v Speaker 2>don't believe Priscilla about a lot of things, she says,

764
00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:50.679
<v Speaker 2>the idea that she could have run across this stuck

765
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.719
<v Speaker 2>in a book as a bookmarker. He could have flipped

766
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:55.400
<v Speaker 2>it over and decided to write a note on the

767
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.280
<v Speaker 2>back of it, and therefore it ends up somewhere entirely

768
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:04.079
<v Speaker 2>different highlight receipt if I remember right. So it's not

769
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:08.400
<v Speaker 2>like this earth shaking significant thing that it got stuck somewhere. Weird.

770
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:12.920
<v Speaker 2>He's moving a lot, and so is his things, and

771
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, some thing's probably got lost, and some thing's

772
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:18.880
<v Speaker 2>got misplaced, and et cetera, et cetera. I mean, or

773
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:20.039
<v Speaker 2>am I making too much.

774
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:20.800
<v Speaker 5>Of this now?

775
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:23.679
<v Speaker 3>And if anyone's ever been through it. It's kind of

776
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:28.079
<v Speaker 3>strange that people think that that it is strange. I mean,

777
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:32.360
<v Speaker 3>having moved overseas in the service, having left stuff with

778
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.760
<v Speaker 3>my brother, having left stuff with my wife's parents, my parents,

779
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:41.280
<v Speaker 3>he went to me, moving into multiple different apartments. It

780
00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:43.679
<v Speaker 3>kind of amazes me that I still have as much

781
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:44.760
<v Speaker 3>of my stuff as I do.

782
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 2>So he goes to the military another time, when your

783
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:51.719
<v Speaker 2>stuff ends up somewhere where you are not okay, you

784
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:53.519
<v Speaker 2>know what do you have when you go into the military.

785
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Whatever's in your foot locker or whatever. You know what

786
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:58.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying. You have your uniforms, et cetera. And sure

787
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.599
<v Speaker 2>you can acquire some personal life, but you go in

788
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:05.000
<v Speaker 2>there with nothing except you know what, whatever's in a

789
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:07.960
<v Speaker 2>double bag. You might be allowed, I don't remember. But

790
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the idea is you're not exactly going in there with

791
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:14.199
<v Speaker 2>the furnishings of your home, uh and all of your books,

792
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:18.719
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera. You're you're limited. Okay, You're in

793
00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:22.039
<v Speaker 2>a place where limited space is allowed for you, and

794
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:24.280
<v Speaker 2>you're there for a period of time. And he spent

795
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:26.719
<v Speaker 2>a period of time like that and was in Japan.

796
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:29.400
<v Speaker 2>We all know that he's in Russia. He couldn't drag

797
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:33.559
<v Speaker 2>everything with him there, so all that travel, all of

798
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:36.079
<v Speaker 2>that uncertainty about where his home base is and whereas

799
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:39.519
<v Speaker 2>things are going to be. I don't see how you

800
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:43.679
<v Speaker 2>can logically say that he reliably put anything anywhere based

801
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:45.079
<v Speaker 2>on all that. Maybe it's just me.

802
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:48.880
<v Speaker 3>And another thing that we have. And again, something we

803
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.679
<v Speaker 3>tried to do in the book very carefully is corroboration.

804
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:57.199
<v Speaker 3>You know, if somebody said something about Lee Harvey Oswald,

805
00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:01.800
<v Speaker 3>did somebody independently observe this same thing. And one of

806
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:04.800
<v Speaker 3>the things that proved very helpful is we've had some

807
00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:08.599
<v Speaker 3>sources emerge over time. I became very good friends with

808
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:13.199
<v Speaker 3>a retired marine named Jack Slike, who served as a

809
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:17.559
<v Speaker 3>counterintelligence agent at Atsugi, where Oswald had served. He showed

810
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:20.719
<v Speaker 3>up a few months after Oswald had been there, but

811
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:24.599
<v Speaker 3>he had the opportunity to question lots of guys that

812
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:27.840
<v Speaker 3>had known Oswald and the marine to marine, you know,

813
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:32.239
<v Speaker 3>not Warren commissioned stafford to marine, Marine to marine. He

814
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:36.199
<v Speaker 3>knew the protocols and procedures, how they handle things that

815
00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:39.840
<v Speaker 3>at Sugi security wise, how things went down, and doing

816
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:44.320
<v Speaker 3>surveillance on the bars. Jack was a great source of

817
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:50.400
<v Speaker 3>information on procedures to give us an insight into Oswald.

818
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:54.280
<v Speaker 3>One of Jack's things that he pointed out to me

819
00:48:54.679 --> 00:48:59.239
<v Speaker 3>and actually was that the Warren Commission again was very selective,

820
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:03.159
<v Speaker 3>and it interviewed a lot of marines, but it was

821
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:07.320
<v Speaker 3>very selective in how they used their information. Uh something

822
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.559
<v Speaker 3>else And you and I have talked about this Ernst

823
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:15.159
<v Speaker 3>Tittivitz Ernst tittivits insights and being a close personal friend

824
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:19.400
<v Speaker 3>in Russia of Oswald when he was working in the factory,

825
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:24.400
<v Speaker 3>through his various relationship with women's es, courting a Marina,

826
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.840
<v Speaker 3>knowing Marina quite well, and knowing them after they got married. Again,

827
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.280
<v Speaker 3>when you can take different individuals and bring them together

828
00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:38.840
<v Speaker 3>and go, you know, can I crosscheck this stuff? Does it?

829
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:41.079
<v Speaker 3>Does it make sense? Or is it out of sync?

830
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:44.440
<v Speaker 3>Was very helpful in the book. And that that's something

831
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:49.199
<v Speaker 3>again actually the Warren Commission avoided doing and to some

832
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:53.199
<v Speaker 3>extent so as conspiracy research, we we tend to leave

833
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:55.480
<v Speaker 3>in our live in our own silo. Right, if we

834
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:59.119
<v Speaker 3>see something that we find that suspicious, that's what we

835
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:02.480
<v Speaker 3>want to see, right, we don't go, you know, check

836
00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:04.880
<v Speaker 3>three other sources and oh did they see it the

837
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:08.840
<v Speaker 3>same thing. Well, but the one advantage that we did

838
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.480
<v Speaker 3>in writing about Lee Rby Oswall at this point in

839
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 3>time is that we literally had a more comprehensive you

840
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:19.920
<v Speaker 3>that we could use to cross check, and that was

841
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:21.079
<v Speaker 3>very helpful.

842
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Right right, So, look, I got a couple of sort

843
00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:28.280
<v Speaker 2>of open questions that relate to the book. I'd like

844
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:30.719
<v Speaker 2>to get to those, and then I want to summarize

845
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:33.840
<v Speaker 2>this whole thing by handing it over to you and saying, Larry,

846
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.639
<v Speaker 2>what if I haven't already made the case for somebody

847
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:39.800
<v Speaker 2>who was interested in this topic to pick up this

848
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:41.840
<v Speaker 2>book because it's going to be an essential piece of

849
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:45.960
<v Speaker 2>reading for you to catch up on a more evolved,

850
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:51.039
<v Speaker 2>more modern look with better information, evidence, photographic section, et

851
00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.760
<v Speaker 2>cetera at Lee Harvey Oswald. If I haven't made that

852
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:56.199
<v Speaker 2>case enough, I want you to make a case for

853
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:59.119
<v Speaker 2>why this book is unique with a you know, a

854
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:01.280
<v Speaker 2>couple of minutes of quick summary if you don't mind.

855
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:03.559
<v Speaker 2>But before we go there, I have a couple of

856
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:06.639
<v Speaker 2>loose questions that do relate to the book and some

857
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:10.000
<v Speaker 2>of what we talked about but might not have otherwise

858
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:11.840
<v Speaker 2>gotten asked, if you don't mind. That come from the

859
00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:18.039
<v Speaker 2>live chat room, no problem. Okay. So a quick question

860
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:20.119
<v Speaker 2>about photographs, and I don't know if you want to

861
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:22.360
<v Speaker 2>reveal something like this or not, but it's up to you.

862
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Does aj Weberman have exclusive photos still or are they

863
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:31.079
<v Speaker 2>in Larry's book because apparently Weberman had some photographs that

864
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:34.800
<v Speaker 2>he was claiming exclusivity over for a while. Did you

865
00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:38.760
<v Speaker 2>run into that issue with anything that you put into

866
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:39.760
<v Speaker 2>this to be published?

867
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:45.159
<v Speaker 3>And no, we literally could not. We the publisher requires

868
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:49.599
<v Speaker 3>that we have legal permissions to use everything that we found,

869
00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 3>so we had to go. So the answer to the

870
00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:56.679
<v Speaker 3>question is, I honestly don't know if Weberman still has

871
00:51:56.760 --> 00:52:00.320
<v Speaker 3>anything exclusive that he hasn't shared, but no, we're not

872
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:01.920
<v Speaker 3>using anything from Weberman.

873
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:06.119
<v Speaker 2>As far as you know, nothing that being used has

874
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:06.960
<v Speaker 2>anything to do with me.

875
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:10.079
<v Speaker 3>And anything that we're using certainly would not be exclusive

876
00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:10.679
<v Speaker 3>to Weberman.

877
00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:15.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's all I wanted to get at. Let's see. Oh, okay,

878
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:18.679
<v Speaker 2>about the unknown fingerprint, the infamous You know, for years

879
00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:20.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people said it was mac Wallace's print,

880
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:25.480
<v Speaker 2>and quite honestly, to my satisfaction, Joan Mellon has quite

881
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:30.360
<v Speaker 2>well proven it is not. But putting that issue aside,

882
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:34.519
<v Speaker 2>since the unknown fingerprint on the sixth floor wasn't mac

883
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Wallace's print, shouldn't someone have run that thing through codes

884
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:46.360
<v Speaker 2>or whatever the fingerprint software is. Seems like someone would

885
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:50.079
<v Speaker 2>be curious. So here's what the follow up question is

886
00:52:50.119 --> 00:52:52.559
<v Speaker 2>I think on this altogether is, Look, we all know

887
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:56.800
<v Speaker 2>this fingerprint exists, it's part of the evidence collection. Has

888
00:52:56.920 --> 00:52:59.679
<v Speaker 2>anyone to your knowledge, gone through and I don't know

889
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.000
<v Speaker 2>on an independent search to try and you know, we've

890
00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:06.440
<v Speaker 2>disproven whose bid might be. What has anyone gone through

891
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:09.199
<v Speaker 2>and said, can we find a match for this supper

892
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:09.920
<v Speaker 2>somewhere in the case?

893
00:53:09.880 --> 00:53:15.000
<v Speaker 3>And that would be the FBI's athist collection of fingerprints.

894
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:18.159
<v Speaker 3>One of the problems like that, and we ran into

895
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:21.360
<v Speaker 3>the same problem in the King case once doing I

896
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:26.360
<v Speaker 3>were working on that. The bottom line is you can't

897
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:30.639
<v Speaker 3>I have a photo. Well, actually we do have fingerprints

898
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:34.360
<v Speaker 3>from the King assassination. That would be very critical. However,

899
00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:38.519
<v Speaker 3>I can't gain access to that FBI system unless I'm

900
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:43.960
<v Speaker 3>in law enforcement and unless it's an open case. Literally,

901
00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:47.480
<v Speaker 3>that's the I have to prove to access that database

902
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:52.320
<v Speaker 3>that I am officially in law enforcement investigating an open case,

903
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.880
<v Speaker 3>which at that point in time the King case was

904
00:53:55.960 --> 00:54:01.000
<v Speaker 3>not with the open record that Closed Case Records Act.

905
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:05.079
<v Speaker 3>That may become a different story now that that is

906
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.880
<v Speaker 3>moving forward on the King case, but certainly it can't

907
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:12.760
<v Speaker 3>be done on the JFK case unless some law enforcement

908
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:16.440
<v Speaker 3>agency was willing to open this up again, take those

909
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:19.920
<v Speaker 3>fingerprints and go to the FBI privately. You can't do

910
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:26.679
<v Speaker 3>it as well, I will say, give an expanded answer,

911
00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:30.199
<v Speaker 3>though it's not that that question was never asked. In

912
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:35.000
<v Speaker 3>the fall of nineteen sixty four, before issuing its report,

913
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:39.880
<v Speaker 3>the Warrant Commission and the staffers were very concerned about

914
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:44.360
<v Speaker 3>exactly that question. They went back to the FBI and

915
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:49.159
<v Speaker 3>basically said, what about all those other prints? Have you

916
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:53.159
<v Speaker 3>checked out those prints about every you know, everybody in

917
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:56.719
<v Speaker 3>the building, everybody you know? Can you even match them

918
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:59.159
<v Speaker 3>to somebody else in the building? Is it possible somebody

919
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:03.639
<v Speaker 3>else with involved with this? They expressed that the FBI

920
00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:07.079
<v Speaker 3>went back to the Dallas Police and the response to

921
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:11.800
<v Speaker 3>the Dallas Police officially gave them was a that A

922
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:17.079
<v Speaker 3>none of the none of the other businesses in the building,

923
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:20.840
<v Speaker 3>the publishing companies, the book companies are open to doing that.

924
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:24.960
<v Speaker 3>They they're they're very unresponsive to doing that. They don't

925
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:28.159
<v Speaker 3>want to have their people fingerprinted. They don't want to

926
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:32.920
<v Speaker 3>do that, okay, But it doesn't matter because and Dallas

927
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:37.119
<v Speaker 3>Police said this, that building was open to the public

928
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:41.159
<v Speaker 3>all week and long. There were dozens and dozens of

929
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:46.559
<v Speaker 3>reporters and other people in that building, not not touching

930
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:50.840
<v Speaker 3>the right but touching the book you know, the bookcases, uh,

931
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:53.679
<v Speaker 3>that sort of thing, and so it would make it's

932
00:55:54.039 --> 00:55:57.480
<v Speaker 3>it's useless. And and basically that was the response that

933
00:55:57.559 --> 00:56:00.599
<v Speaker 3>was given to the Warrant Commission is you're wasting your time.

934
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:06.199
<v Speaker 3>Anybody could have left those prints, okay, and we have

935
00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:09.960
<v Speaker 3>no way of contacting, you know, and the Warrant Commission

936
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:13.599
<v Speaker 3>let that stand. Obviously, one of the arguments is certainly

937
00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:17.559
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen sixty three, law enforcement did not have a

938
00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:22.360
<v Speaker 3>fingerprint file on everybody, only those people, you know.

939
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:27.159
<v Speaker 2>No, that's one response. The other response is that look

940
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:32.320
<v Speaker 2>in the uh, you know, next sixty years. Okay, somebody

941
00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:39.159
<v Speaker 2>could have encouraged someone in law enforcement to just do this, especially.

942
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:39.320
<v Speaker 3>With a greed.

943
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Try Well, that's the open question, right is you.

944
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:47.360
<v Speaker 3>Know we did and people got their hands slapped and

945
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:51.079
<v Speaker 3>people got well, so yeah, somebody may have better reluctance

946
00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:51.800
<v Speaker 3>doing I did.

947
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:55.199
<v Speaker 2>I see. So what you're telling me is there are

948
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:58.320
<v Speaker 2>possibilities for people to encourage someone in the right position

949
00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:02.519
<v Speaker 2>to maybe utilize the newer technology. But thus far, any

950
00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:05.400
<v Speaker 2>attempts that you've been part of or privy to have

951
00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:09.119
<v Speaker 2>been rebuffed quite fully where it seems like no one

952
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:12.559
<v Speaker 2>actually wants to do it or let it proceed. Does

953
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:13.639
<v Speaker 2>that appear to be the case?

954
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:16.840
<v Speaker 3>Literally take the risk of you know it is, they

955
00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:18.679
<v Speaker 3>would be literally breaking the law.

956
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:25.079
<v Speaker 2>But someone might think that that's you know, not that

957
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, how how bad a punishment it.

958
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:31.280
<v Speaker 3>Might be worth the risk? So I'm I can't you know,

959
00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:32.920
<v Speaker 3>condone freaking law.

960
00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:37.079
<v Speaker 2>Nobody's Look, nobody's here to do that so far that

961
00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:40.360
<v Speaker 2>I know of right, nobody is condoning that. I never do.

962
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:42.599
<v Speaker 2>I always make those statements like, look, an act of

963
00:57:42.679 --> 00:57:45.079
<v Speaker 2>violence is never going to be encouraged by me, et cetera.

964
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Depending on the issue, I might say, you know, I

965
00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:50.760
<v Speaker 2>would never encourage somebody to risk their own freedom for

966
00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:53.920
<v Speaker 2>any particular cause that they did not you know, you

967
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:56.800
<v Speaker 2>deem it necessary, you deem it a morally you know,

968
00:57:56.920 --> 00:57:59.719
<v Speaker 2>significant thing, Then that is a decision that you need

969
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:02.760
<v Speaker 2>to make for yourself if you're in the position to

970
00:58:02.800 --> 00:58:06.920
<v Speaker 2>do so. But I would never encourage it openly. But

971
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:11.239
<v Speaker 2>I would say that if someone sought to do this,

972
00:58:11.559 --> 00:58:13.920
<v Speaker 2>they might find themselves in a position if they were

973
00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:17.840
<v Speaker 2>able to resolve something by this action, of not being

974
00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:22.880
<v Speaker 2>worthy of prosecution or not being prosecuted for solving something.

975
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:28.239
<v Speaker 2>Here I'm just saying, but again, legally the normal channels,

976
00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:32.639
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, this has not been an option so far.

977
00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Is that about it?

978
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:36.559
<v Speaker 3>I think it. I do think that it's interesting that

979
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:39.840
<v Speaker 3>even the Warrant Commission itself realized that it was an issue.

980
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:43.920
<v Speaker 3>You know, that's considering all the things that they didn't

981
00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:46.440
<v Speaker 3>realize were issues. I think it was interesting that they

982
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:48.360
<v Speaker 3>at least tweaked to that one.

983
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I did the chat. I have a chatter saying

984
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:56.400
<v Speaker 2>no one checked that print. But if you do dot

985
00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:58.800
<v Speaker 2>dot yeah, that's.

986
00:58:58.679 --> 00:58:59.280
<v Speaker 3>Let us know.

987
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, I'd be more than happy to accept

988
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:06.519
<v Speaker 2>the you know, press release from said action, because that

989
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:09.840
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't make me liable for anything. For sure. If I

990
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:13.760
<v Speaker 2>simply accepted a press release from someone who was able

991
00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:17.719
<v Speaker 2>to prove that the proper investigation was done here and

992
00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:23.199
<v Speaker 2>it revealed so on and so forth hypothetically, and it

993
00:59:23.239 --> 00:59:26.360
<v Speaker 2>does seem like something that other JFK researchers might have

994
00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:29.480
<v Speaker 2>attempted to do, you know, because different people have done

995
00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:34.840
<v Speaker 2>different things to try and investigate this fingerprint before, and

996
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.519
<v Speaker 2>they've come up with various results. So I'm just thinking

997
00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:42.400
<v Speaker 2>this is one of those things, given the evolution in technology,

998
00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:48.440
<v Speaker 2>one might think is not a particularly laborious task to

999
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:54.159
<v Speaker 2>undertake and would just require proper access and you know,

1000
00:59:54.280 --> 01:00:00.280
<v Speaker 2>and the ability to handle the thing. No, anyway, I

1001
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:03.480
<v Speaker 2>leave it to the listener to think about that. Larry,

1002
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:06.559
<v Speaker 2>not trying to put you in any position. And again,

1003
01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:10.440
<v Speaker 2>I would never endorse somebody breaking the law and putting

1004
01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:15.000
<v Speaker 2>their own liberty in jeopardy for any particular reason. That's

1005
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:17.760
<v Speaker 2>not for me to encourage. Very simple.

1006
01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:20.679
<v Speaker 3>I do think that I do think I'm fascinated by

1007
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:23.679
<v Speaker 3>the subject as well, But I I kind of do

1008
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:30.159
<v Speaker 3>think that the problem would be and the fingerprint bas

1009
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:33.719
<v Speaker 3>is bigger now, obviously far bigger than it ever was then.

1010
01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:37.480
<v Speaker 3>So your options, you know, your likelihood of coming up

1011
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:41.360
<v Speaker 3>with someone would be far better now just because more

1012
01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:44.639
<v Speaker 3>prints have been collected over the subsequent decades. But it

1013
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:48.679
<v Speaker 3>kind of it appalled me when I read the Dallas

1014
01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Police saying, well, it's a waste of time because we

1015
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.719
<v Speaker 3>left the crime scene totally open and all these people

1016
01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:58.440
<v Speaker 3>marched all over the place and did whatever. So it's

1017
01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:00.679
<v Speaker 3>kind of like, did you guys, I think that was

1018
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:03.880
<v Speaker 3>a bad idea? I guess they didn't have yellow tape

1019
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:04.440
<v Speaker 3>back then.

1020
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Well they did shut down the building for a little while, right,

1021
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:10.480
<v Speaker 2>but well.

1022
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:15.159
<v Speaker 3>They did, but not not overnight. My friend Ian Briggs,

1023
01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:19.760
<v Speaker 3>this passed interview people that worked in the publishing houses there,

1024
01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:24.360
<v Speaker 3>the book companies, and those guys said, well, you know,

1025
01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:26.639
<v Speaker 3>I was out of town. I came back and you know,

1026
01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Saturday night, Sunday, I went into my office. I went

1027
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:33.800
<v Speaker 3>into the our regular door and nothing, nothing was locked,

1028
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:36.079
<v Speaker 3>There was nobody around. I just wandered around.

1029
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:36.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1030
01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But nonetheless, there might have been a point at

1031
01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:43.639
<v Speaker 2>which if they had done see that's the question did

1032
01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:47.119
<v Speaker 2>they do a full see? Because if the full collection

1033
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:52.760
<v Speaker 2>was done, you know, say by Saturday, and you know,

1034
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:56.519
<v Speaker 2>and they were done Saturday afternoon with that collection, and

1035
01:01:56.599 --> 01:02:00.679
<v Speaker 2>they let the building open at some point right after that,

1036
01:02:00.920 --> 01:02:03.119
<v Speaker 2>then one could say, look, we have a snapshot in

1037
01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:08.360
<v Speaker 2>time where there was Prince collected that could not have

1038
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:12.519
<v Speaker 2>existed previously and would not be added to by all

1039
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:14.199
<v Speaker 2>the additional traffic over the weekend.

1040
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:19.199
<v Speaker 3>Right if they had done that. Of course, fellow that

1041
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:24.159
<v Speaker 3>I interviewed and talked to personally, Tom Alyea, maintained strongly

1042
01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:28.400
<v Speaker 3>and offered some pretty interesting evidence to prove it that

1043
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:33.360
<v Speaker 3>the Dallas crime scene photos of all those boxes were

1044
01:02:33.400 --> 01:02:38.800
<v Speaker 3>actually not taken on November twenty second. That studeb Baker's

1045
01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:42.400
<v Speaker 3>assistant was brand new, didn't know how to do anything.

1046
01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:46.239
<v Speaker 3>He moved all the boxes around, took his pictures, and

1047
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:50.679
<v Speaker 3>they had to restage all those shots on Saturday. And

1048
01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:54.039
<v Speaker 3>I think that's a fascinating thing, because again, you want

1049
01:02:54.079 --> 01:02:58.760
<v Speaker 3>to drive yourself nuts. Just Alieya said that the boxes

1050
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:02.199
<v Speaker 3>and the official crime scene photos are not stacked the

1051
01:03:02.239 --> 01:03:05.360
<v Speaker 3>way he saw them the afternoon of the twenty second.

1052
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, And for the record, Alia is one of the

1053
01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.800
<v Speaker 2>guys who took a film and is responsible for the

1054
01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:15.599
<v Speaker 2>film inside the book depository at the time that the

1055
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:18.840
<v Speaker 2>search was being conducted for the rifle for the shooter,

1056
01:03:18.920 --> 01:03:21.519
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. He's the guy who actually had to throw

1057
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:24.400
<v Speaker 2>his film out of a window in order to get

1058
01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:27.880
<v Speaker 2>it to one of the television stations so they could

1059
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:31.960
<v Speaker 2>broadcast a look inside of the school book depository and

1060
01:03:32.079 --> 01:03:35.119
<v Speaker 2>the search. That's the guy we're talking about here, Tom Elliet.

1061
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:38.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I thought it was fascinating. Type to Tom at

1062
01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:42.840
<v Speaker 3>length many times. And Tom was a lone nut believer.

1063
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:44.840
<v Speaker 3>He believed Oswald did it by himself.

1064
01:03:44.920 --> 01:03:45.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah.

1065
01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:49.159
<v Speaker 3>And Tom, we'd have this conversations kind of like, Tom,

1066
01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:52.719
<v Speaker 3>so you're telling me that all the crime scene photos

1067
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:58.119
<v Speaker 3>and evidence are faked. You're telling me that they through

1068
01:03:58.159 --> 01:04:01.960
<v Speaker 3>the shell, the holes back on the floor and those

1069
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.880
<v Speaker 3>aren't really the way they were after the shooting. Yet

1070
01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:09.920
<v Speaker 3>you believe everything else in the Dallas police evidence file. Yeah,

1071
01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:11.960
<v Speaker 3>And he would just look at me with this look

1072
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:14.119
<v Speaker 3>like and I would go, well, I paid for lunch,

1073
01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:18.800
<v Speaker 3>so okay, you know, but I thought it was a

1074
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:22.960
<v Speaker 3>a It's a wonderful thing to believe what you want

1075
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.320
<v Speaker 3>to believe. Like Tom, you're telling me it's bogus, but

1076
01:04:26.440 --> 01:04:28.599
<v Speaker 3>you believe everything was right except that.

1077
01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:33.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, part of the basic evidence package is bs but

1078
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:37.960
<v Speaker 2>they got it right anyway. That's interesting. Also what's interesting

1079
01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:41.400
<v Speaker 2>is what was it maybe two thousand and four. I'm

1080
01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:44.199
<v Speaker 2>thinking now I might have this off, but a book

1081
01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:49.599
<v Speaker 2>was released called First Day Evidence and are you familiar

1082
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:49.880
<v Speaker 2>with it?

1083
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:50.440
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

1084
01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:54.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, so should we could you give a basic

1085
01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:56.800
<v Speaker 2>description of what was in that book that goes along

1086
01:04:56.840 --> 01:04:58.480
<v Speaker 2>with this story just real past.

1087
01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:02.239
<v Speaker 3>Basically as a call it that the individual that published

1088
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:05.880
<v Speaker 3>the book was the nephew of a Dallas police officer

1089
01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:11.320
<v Speaker 3>who had been in the photographic unit and had taken

1090
01:05:11.360 --> 01:05:14.559
<v Speaker 3>a lot of pictures of the prime scene evidence and

1091
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:20.079
<v Speaker 3>had made copies for friends and scattered them around. But

1092
01:05:20.639 --> 01:05:23.360
<v Speaker 3>one of the essential points was that some of the

1093
01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:28.639
<v Speaker 3>pictures that he had taken of Prince were good enough

1094
01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:33.079
<v Speaker 3>and this nephew had come into possession of them that

1095
01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:36.840
<v Speaker 3>a forensics expert could take a look at them. And

1096
01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:42.199
<v Speaker 3>I think he said, you know, he was maintaining it

1097
01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:46.119
<v Speaker 3>was solid evidence of Oswald because there were eleven points

1098
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:49.760
<v Speaker 3>of match, which is actually a pretty low number for

1099
01:05:50.599 --> 01:05:56.239
<v Speaker 3>court proof. But again, and this is interestingly enough, something

1100
01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:00.199
<v Speaker 3>we do cover in the book is the the the

1101
01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:06.440
<v Speaker 3>terrible handling of crime scene evidence by the Talis unit

1102
01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:11.000
<v Speaker 3>and particularly photographs. We talk about that a lot because

1103
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.159
<v Speaker 3>it's very germane to the discussion of the well known

1104
01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:19.679
<v Speaker 3>backyard photo. So but yeah, First Day Evidence was Essentially,

1105
01:06:20.239 --> 01:06:23.119
<v Speaker 3>my uncle took pictures, took a lot of pictures, he

1106
01:06:23.239 --> 01:06:25.840
<v Speaker 3>saved a lot of them. I got them. And by

1107
01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:29.079
<v Speaker 3>the way, I can now prove that it was Oswald

1108
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:32.719
<v Speaker 3>because of my uncle's pictures. Now, not that his uncle's

1109
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:36.599
<v Speaker 3>pictures that would approve that apparently were used by the

1110
01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:40.480
<v Speaker 3>Warrant Commission or the Dallas Pleaze or anyway. It's like, Okay,

1111
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:44.599
<v Speaker 3>that didn't happen as part of the official process, but

1112
01:06:44.719 --> 01:06:46.760
<v Speaker 3>now you're saying you can do it with pictures that

1113
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:50.239
<v Speaker 3>he kept, and you inherited great well.

1114
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:54.400
<v Speaker 2>And the other part of this was, you know, look,

1115
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:57.159
<v Speaker 2>not only was it stored away for at that time

1116
01:06:57.920 --> 01:07:01.320
<v Speaker 2>thirty years plus, right, because taking a look at this,

1117
01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:04.760
<v Speaker 2>it was actually first published in ninety three, I was

1118
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:07.719
<v Speaker 2>mixing it up. I was thinking two thousand and four.

1119
01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:11.400
<v Speaker 2>It was in my hands by nineteen ninety four. So

1120
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:15.639
<v Speaker 2>my mistake there. But it kind of coincided with all

1121
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:20.440
<v Speaker 2>of the excitement over the JFK film, first of all,

1122
01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:26.719
<v Speaker 2>and secondly, it appeared to me to be the most

1123
01:07:27.440 --> 01:07:31.880
<v Speaker 2>ardent defense of the idea that there was a print,

1124
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:34.719
<v Speaker 2>because in the film, if you recall, there was this

1125
01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:39.639
<v Speaker 2>allegation sort of given to us that maybe Oswald had

1126
01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:42.920
<v Speaker 2>been printed in the morgue in order to place part

1127
01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:46.519
<v Speaker 2>of a pomp print on the rifle, the pomp print

1128
01:07:46.639 --> 01:07:49.360
<v Speaker 2>not being present when the FBI took all the evidence

1129
01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:53.679
<v Speaker 2>from Dallas, I believe what the night of the assassination.

1130
01:07:53.159 --> 01:07:54.760
<v Speaker 3>Right midnight.

1131
01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:57.239
<v Speaker 2>By midnight, they had already taken all this stuff. So

1132
01:07:57.280 --> 01:08:00.639
<v Speaker 2>they arrest Oswald in the early afternoon, and they're sending

1133
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:05.000
<v Speaker 2>all the evidence to the FBI that they have, supposedly,

1134
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:07.599
<v Speaker 2>and that means the guns, the uh, you know, the

1135
01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:12.880
<v Speaker 2>the shells, everything they're shipping to the FBI to be

1136
01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:14.559
<v Speaker 2>shipped back to them.

1137
01:08:14.920 --> 01:08:17.560
<v Speaker 3>E said, well, the one shell they decided to cleep

1138
01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:20.800
<v Speaker 3>it keeping his desk drawer. Yeah, for some reason.

1139
01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Desk drawer or file drawer or something like that. That's another story,

1140
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:26.119
<v Speaker 2>but let's put that aside. The thing is that this

1141
01:08:26.279 --> 01:08:29.079
<v Speaker 2>was a defense of the idea that the pomp print

1142
01:08:29.319 --> 01:08:32.520
<v Speaker 2>had to have existed before Oswald was in the morgue,

1143
01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:36.159
<v Speaker 2>because his uncle, even though he didn't send it to

1144
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:41.359
<v Speaker 2>them that night, had the good photograph. He had already

1145
01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:46.920
<v Speaker 2>lifted the pom print, right, so his lift was what

1146
01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:49.640
<v Speaker 2>they already had, but they didn't send that to the FBI.

1147
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:52.800
<v Speaker 3>This would have been so much fun in court.

1148
01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, of course it would have. But I mean, do

1149
01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:57.960
<v Speaker 2>you do recall this part of it, right? Yes? Yeah, absolutely,

1150
01:08:58.119 --> 01:08:59.840
<v Speaker 2>And this was the big controversy. And by the way,

1151
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:02.520
<v Speaker 2>this book is kind of hard to get, or at

1152
01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:05.760
<v Speaker 2>least was for a time. Maybe it's a little easier

1153
01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:10.359
<v Speaker 2>to get. I don't think it had additional printings, but

1154
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:13.319
<v Speaker 2>it might have. It might have. And the author was

1155
01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:17.319
<v Speaker 2>Gary Savage, just saying, but what was it called? Let's

1156
01:09:17.319 --> 01:09:20.520
<v Speaker 2>see the full title JFK First day Evidence stored away

1157
01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:23.760
<v Speaker 2>for thirty years in an old briefcase, no kidding. This

1158
01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:26.720
<v Speaker 2>is what it says. New evidence is now revealed by

1159
01:09:26.760 --> 01:09:32.439
<v Speaker 2>former Dallas Police crime Laboratory detect lab detective excuse me,

1160
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:37.239
<v Speaker 2>r W. And then I guess the description continues.

1161
01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:41.560
<v Speaker 3>Rub subtitle is why you should trust the Dallas Police Force.

1162
01:09:41.760 --> 01:09:45.760
<v Speaker 2>It should be exactly right. Why should you trust it? Well,

1163
01:09:45.800 --> 01:09:47.760
<v Speaker 2>he just happened to have this lift and he did

1164
01:09:47.800 --> 01:09:51.640
<v Speaker 2>have the pomp print in his possession before Oswald could

1165
01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:53.199
<v Speaker 2>have ended up in the Morgan. You see what you

1166
01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:56.640
<v Speaker 2>see in JFK. There were a bunch of counter narrative

1167
01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:59.359
<v Speaker 2>books released at this time, just for the record for

1168
01:09:59.399 --> 01:10:04.920
<v Speaker 2>the audience. Okay, but just saying, let's see on the

1169
01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:09.199
<v Speaker 2>TV show Best about five years ago, they had a

1170
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:12.920
<v Speaker 2>real film from the Dallas PD of all the evidence. Yeah,

1171
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:18.000
<v Speaker 2>there was a film. There were a few things. There

1172
01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:21.239
<v Speaker 2>was a a reel of stuff that was on like

1173
01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:24.199
<v Speaker 2>a microfilm that was supposed to be all of Dallas's

1174
01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:28.720
<v Speaker 2>evidence that they tried to sell to that pawn Stars

1175
01:10:29.039 --> 01:10:32.000
<v Speaker 2>group of guys in Las Vegas. And apparently there was

1176
01:10:32.039 --> 01:10:36.520
<v Speaker 2>another film allegedly of all the evidence in Dallas that

1177
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:38.520
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of that is online.

1178
01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:43.359
<v Speaker 3>We went through like forty four pages of photographs of

1179
01:10:43.439 --> 01:10:48.399
<v Speaker 3>evidence that materials taken from Lee Harvey Oswald. Yeah, there's

1180
01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:50.039
<v Speaker 3>a lot of it online now.

1181
01:10:50.199 --> 01:10:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Actually, yeah, a lot of stuff is available online. I

1182
01:10:52.760 --> 01:10:54.479
<v Speaker 2>mean you can see the one that cracked me up

1183
01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:57.560
<v Speaker 2>is the one that's got his flip flops and like

1184
01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:01.000
<v Speaker 2>everything that they collected, like the junken his pockets, you know,

1185
01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:05.159
<v Speaker 2>was pretty much revealed in these photographs that they staged.

1186
01:11:05.239 --> 01:11:08.279
<v Speaker 2>Kind of wild because again it doesn't look very organized

1187
01:11:08.319 --> 01:11:10.279
<v Speaker 2>for the crime lab guys.

1188
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:14.000
<v Speaker 3>To it's not organized at all, you know, just saying

1189
01:11:14.119 --> 01:11:17.279
<v Speaker 3>there's bad as Oswald, It's like, man at least you

1190
01:11:17.319 --> 01:11:21.800
<v Speaker 3>guys captured is true. It's to nature here because it's

1191
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:26.960
<v Speaker 3>all intermixed. Pictures from Russia are side by side with

1192
01:11:27.520 --> 01:11:32.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, private possessions. It's all intermixed.

1193
01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:35.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a whole big like just you know, grab bag

1194
01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:38.039
<v Speaker 2>of stuff that it looks like they kind of dumped

1195
01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:40.560
<v Speaker 2>out and spread out a little bit, like here's how

1196
01:11:40.600 --> 01:11:43.119
<v Speaker 2>world separated a little bit. But I mean, even the

1197
01:11:43.159 --> 01:11:46.159
<v Speaker 2>flip flops are not like they're not placed in a

1198
01:11:46.199 --> 01:11:48.359
<v Speaker 2>place that makes sense. It isn't even meant to be

1199
01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:52.520
<v Speaker 2>aesthetically balanced or anything. It's just here's the stuff from

1200
01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:55.560
<v Speaker 2>this bag. Okay, next bag, here's the stuff from that right.

1201
01:11:55.640 --> 01:11:58.640
<v Speaker 2>And it was like, wow, I can't believe that this

1202
01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:02.079
<v Speaker 2>stuff was collected like this people. But meanwhile, you're supposed

1203
01:12:02.079 --> 01:12:05.880
<v Speaker 2>to take it very seriously that his uncle had this lift,

1204
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:08.319
<v Speaker 2>which I don't know if anybody can prove when it

1205
01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:13.159
<v Speaker 2>was actually taken, if anything's dated properly. I don't remember

1206
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:15.199
<v Speaker 2>all that, but I do remember looking at it saying,

1207
01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:19.479
<v Speaker 2>this is the best they can do to defend this,

1208
01:12:19.760 --> 01:12:21.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, this side. Because people were shook up about

1209
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:26.079
<v Speaker 2>the idea that Oswald may have been printed post mortem,

1210
01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:30.439
<v Speaker 2>you know. Okay, anyway, Larry, look, we've run a little

1211
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:34.239
<v Speaker 2>extra time more than I wanted to, but I'm sure

1212
01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:37.439
<v Speaker 2>you could give us a very concise sort of statement

1213
01:12:37.439 --> 01:12:40.000
<v Speaker 2>about Listen, Larry, I've bought and I've read lots of

1214
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:43.439
<v Speaker 2>Oswald stuff, and you know what a lot of it

1215
01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:47.039
<v Speaker 2>is repetitious. We've already been over how photographs are different.

1216
01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:49.920
<v Speaker 2>This is laid out in a different way. The narrative

1217
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:54.000
<v Speaker 2>is fresh. We've already told them that. But give me

1218
01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:57.680
<v Speaker 2>one more little push. What is the reason why if

1219
01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:01.000
<v Speaker 2>I've got a collection of books on Lee Harvey Oswald,

1220
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:04.720
<v Speaker 2>besides the arts and Crafts project I presented earlier, what

1221
01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:07.039
<v Speaker 2>is the reason why, Larry, and I hate to do

1222
01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:09.560
<v Speaker 2>this to you, I need to buy this book by

1223
01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Larry Hancock and David Boylin because I got to add

1224
01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:20.479
<v Speaker 2>to my collection four references, because I'm seriously Oswald Puzzle, okay,

1225
01:13:20.560 --> 01:13:23.600
<v Speaker 2>which is just how it's named on Amazon. Oswald Puzzle

1226
01:13:23.680 --> 01:13:27.479
<v Speaker 2>Hardcover says to be released January fourteen, but you can

1227
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:30.760
<v Speaker 2>pre order it now by Larry Joe Hancock. I like

1228
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:35.239
<v Speaker 2>how they give you the three names here, Larry Joe Hancock. Okay,

1229
01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:37.239
<v Speaker 2>some people make a big deal out of this. This

1230
01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:39.439
<v Speaker 2>guy they always name him by three names when they're

1231
01:13:39.479 --> 01:13:41.840
<v Speaker 2>this or that. No, they just it's your you know,

1232
01:13:42.319 --> 01:13:46.119
<v Speaker 2>but you're Larry Joe Hancock here Larry David boy Lin's

1233
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:49.319
<v Speaker 2>just David boy Ln. But anyway, the two authors on

1234
01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:53.720
<v Speaker 2>oswald Puzzle, which has this black and white photo of

1235
01:13:53.720 --> 01:13:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Oswald with this ghostly overlay of other photos of interest

1236
01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:02.720
<v Speaker 2>that devly suggests to me the first half of the

1237
01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:08.479
<v Speaker 2>book for sure, as far as the you know, biographical

1238
01:14:08.560 --> 01:14:13.319
<v Speaker 2>presentation that could be had from the supposed first section

1239
01:14:14.279 --> 01:14:17.119
<v Speaker 2>of that narrative that we've already read from. So give

1240
01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:19.000
<v Speaker 2>us the reason, Larry, why is it I need to

1241
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:21.640
<v Speaker 2>add this book to my collection? How does it round

1242
01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:23.680
<v Speaker 2>it out? What does it do well?

1243
01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:26.039
<v Speaker 3>I think there are really three parts to it, Chuck.

1244
01:14:26.199 --> 01:14:31.159
<v Speaker 3>The first is it tackles three standing questions that I've

1245
01:14:31.159 --> 01:14:36.359
<v Speaker 3>always had, I think most everybody has always had. Basically,

1246
01:14:37.359 --> 01:14:42.119
<v Speaker 3>what was Oswald? What was this belief system? What what

1247
01:14:42.279 --> 01:14:45.920
<v Speaker 3>was he left? Was he right? Was the tool? Was

1248
01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:50.880
<v Speaker 3>the independent? We come down with answers to all those questions.

1249
01:14:51.800 --> 01:14:54.239
<v Speaker 3>You can like them, you cannot like them, But we

1250
01:14:54.359 --> 01:14:57.159
<v Speaker 3>come down with a very I think well supportive view

1251
01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:04.479
<v Speaker 3>of who he really was and what was this person agenda? Okay, no,

1252
01:15:04.479 --> 01:15:07.640
<v Speaker 3>no ifs answer, buts we take a very definitive position.

1253
01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:12.800
<v Speaker 3>The second is there there have been a very fundamental

1254
01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:17.880
<v Speaker 3>set of series of questions of was Oswell acting for someone?

1255
01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:21.640
<v Speaker 3>Was he an asset? Was he you know? What is

1256
01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:25.840
<v Speaker 3>really going on with him? We get very definitive about that.

1257
01:15:26.239 --> 01:15:28.680
<v Speaker 3>Was he FBI? Was he c I A Was he?

1258
01:15:29.239 --> 01:15:34.439
<v Speaker 3>You know? And you read off the chapter of Oswell's entanglement.

1259
01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:38.520
<v Speaker 3>We used entanglement for a very specific reason and and

1260
01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:43.840
<v Speaker 3>bring that out in the book, how Osweald became entangled

1261
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:45.840
<v Speaker 3>with a lot of things that made him look a

1262
01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:50.720
<v Speaker 3>particular way when he may not have been, you know.

1263
01:15:50.960 --> 01:15:54.600
<v Speaker 3>So we we tackle those questions head on in terms

1264
01:15:54.640 --> 01:15:59.079
<v Speaker 3>of Oswell and the CIA, the FBI. We tackled the

1265
01:15:59.159 --> 01:16:04.560
<v Speaker 3>hard issue is like the Walker incident, the backyard photo,

1266
01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Mexico City, Russia. We tackle those and we give answers

1267
01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:14.800
<v Speaker 3>which we think are well defensible and balanced. So that's

1268
01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:17.439
<v Speaker 3>the second thing is a lot of that has been

1269
01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:22.279
<v Speaker 3>kind of discussed the speculative fashion. We're going to take

1270
01:16:22.319 --> 01:16:24.800
<v Speaker 3>a we take a firm position on those things in

1271
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:28.199
<v Speaker 3>the book. But the third thing is is the big

1272
01:16:28.319 --> 01:16:34.039
<v Speaker 3>question of what was what was Oswald really thinking and

1273
01:16:34.119 --> 01:16:38.880
<v Speaker 3>what was Oswell doing on November twenty second. There have

1274
01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:42.279
<v Speaker 3>been many things that have been offered for that, things

1275
01:16:42.399 --> 01:16:47.119
<v Speaker 3>like was he a participant? Was he unwitting participant? Was

1276
01:16:47.159 --> 01:16:51.479
<v Speaker 3>there a false flag operation going on? Was he totally framed?

1277
01:16:51.680 --> 01:16:55.800
<v Speaker 3>And if he was totally framed and totally clueless, how

1278
01:16:55.800 --> 01:16:59.039
<v Speaker 3>do you explain some of his rather strange behavior on

1279
01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:02.479
<v Speaker 3>November twenty seven second And the second half of the

1280
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:07.760
<v Speaker 3>book is an explanation for what we feel he really

1281
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:11.800
<v Speaker 3>was thinking on that day and how it came about

1282
01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:16.119
<v Speaker 3>over the ninety two one hundred and twenty days period

1283
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:20.760
<v Speaker 3>in advance of that day in Dallas. So I think

1284
01:17:21.359 --> 01:17:24.079
<v Speaker 3>the bottom line is you're going to see things in

1285
01:17:24.159 --> 01:17:30.039
<v Speaker 3>the book that solid positions that have been discussed, and

1286
01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:33.319
<v Speaker 3>they're going to be supported with information, some of it

1287
01:17:33.800 --> 01:17:37.279
<v Speaker 3>simply organized in a more structured fashion. Some of it

1288
01:17:37.399 --> 01:17:41.479
<v Speaker 3>brand new, And I have You've been good. You haven't

1289
01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:43.920
<v Speaker 3>asked me what is brand new in the book, which

1290
01:17:44.119 --> 01:17:47.880
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't say, because you know I might my publisher

1291
01:17:47.920 --> 01:17:48.399
<v Speaker 3>would go.

1292
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:50.039
<v Speaker 2>What are you doing?

1293
01:17:51.199 --> 01:17:54.279
<v Speaker 3>There is brand new data in the book, some of

1294
01:17:54.319 --> 01:17:57.960
<v Speaker 3>it discovered when we were working the photo section, which

1295
01:17:58.039 --> 01:18:01.239
<v Speaker 3>is going to be rather fast because it was there

1296
01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:04.199
<v Speaker 3>in front of us all the time. It's there in

1297
01:18:04.239 --> 01:18:07.640
<v Speaker 3>the Warren Commission report, It's there in the photos, and

1298
01:18:07.680 --> 01:18:12.279
<v Speaker 3>we never saw it. I never saw it. So there

1299
01:18:12.399 --> 01:18:14.680
<v Speaker 3>is new content in the book as well that I

1300
01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:18.119
<v Speaker 3>can guarantee. Whether people like it or not, that's another story.

1301
01:18:18.159 --> 01:18:23.439
<v Speaker 3>But it is new. So those are multiple reasons it is.

1302
01:18:24.439 --> 01:18:27.640
<v Speaker 3>It is one thing that it will offer we tried

1303
01:18:27.680 --> 01:18:31.560
<v Speaker 3>to be It has four hundred and thirty six in notes.

1304
01:18:32.399 --> 01:18:37.039
<v Speaker 3>The majority of those are linked to source material and

1305
01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:41.159
<v Speaker 3>in some cases to contrarian source material. So you can

1306
01:18:41.239 --> 01:18:44.359
<v Speaker 3>go take this book, see what we think, see what

1307
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:47.439
<v Speaker 3>our assessment is, and then go look at what the

1308
01:18:47.479 --> 01:18:50.479
<v Speaker 3>other people say. So actually, it would be a very

1309
01:18:50.520 --> 01:18:54.079
<v Speaker 3>good starter book for someone that's relatively new to this

1310
01:18:54.279 --> 01:18:58.239
<v Speaker 3>and doesn't want to totally believe anybody, And that would

1311
01:18:58.239 --> 01:19:01.239
<v Speaker 3>be our answer is, hey, go look look at the

1312
01:19:01.279 --> 01:19:03.720
<v Speaker 3>other viewpoints and you make the choice.

1313
01:19:04.279 --> 01:19:06.279
<v Speaker 2>And on the other hand, it would be excellent for

1314
01:19:06.399 --> 01:19:10.920
<v Speaker 2>someone who has gotten fully entrenched in some of the

1315
01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:14.479
<v Speaker 2>things of the past, whether they are on the conspiracy

1316
01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:18.960
<v Speaker 2>advocacy side or they are on the lone nut belief side.

1317
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Either way, you can gain a new insight here and

1318
01:19:24.439 --> 01:19:29.079
<v Speaker 2>get new information, and nobody's necessarily looking to support a

1319
01:19:29.119 --> 01:19:34.239
<v Speaker 2>particular agenda. Apparently, let's take an objective view with some

1320
01:19:34.319 --> 01:19:38.359
<v Speaker 2>context here, whether it's in the photographic section or point

1321
01:19:38.399 --> 01:19:43.920
<v Speaker 2>by point through the entire one piece narrative of the

1322
01:19:43.960 --> 01:19:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Oswald Puzzle. Is that right?

1323
01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:50.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Our goal was to be objective with it, and

1324
01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:56.119
<v Speaker 3>it's not. I think long time conspiracy folks will find

1325
01:19:56.159 --> 01:20:01.359
<v Speaker 3>it interesting in some aspects annoying because it does deal

1326
01:20:01.439 --> 01:20:05.840
<v Speaker 3>with some sacred cows we have. We wrote it to

1327
01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:08.640
<v Speaker 3>be more of a book for the general public that

1328
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:12.359
<v Speaker 3>if you've never you've never really waded into this and

1329
01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:15.520
<v Speaker 3>always wondered if the Warrant Commission told you the real

1330
01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:18.680
<v Speaker 3>story you need to read this, And no they didn't.

1331
01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:22.359
<v Speaker 2>But as per usual, Larry, you know, no matter what

1332
01:20:22.399 --> 01:20:28.800
<v Speaker 2>your intent was as an author, things do have a

1333
01:20:29.079 --> 01:20:32.600
<v Speaker 2>life of their own when once you release them. So

1334
01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:35.439
<v Speaker 2>I would say this thing is definitely going to have

1335
01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:39.720
<v Speaker 2>a life, and I'm wondering how pleasant or miserable it

1336
01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:42.439
<v Speaker 2>might be, not for it in and of itself, but

1337
01:20:42.520 --> 01:20:46.760
<v Speaker 2>for the reader. Depending on your preconceived notions, you could

1338
01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:49.079
<v Speaker 2>have a hard time with this thing. You could have

1339
01:20:49.159 --> 01:20:52.079
<v Speaker 2>an easy time with this thing, but one way or another,

1340
01:20:52.359 --> 01:20:55.840
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be a unique experience. So we'll leave

1341
01:20:55.840 --> 01:20:59.119
<v Speaker 2>it at that. Larry Hancock was my guest for more

1342
01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:00.840
<v Speaker 2>than an hour, let's say, nearly an hour and a

1343
01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:04.079
<v Speaker 2>half hour and twenty plus on the o'ceelly effect. I

1344
01:21:04.159 --> 01:21:08.520
<v Speaker 2>urge you to go to Larrydashhancock dot com and keep

1345
01:21:08.600 --> 01:21:12.279
<v Speaker 2>up with his work, not just his books, which you

1346
01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:15.520
<v Speaker 2>can find references and portals too. I, by the way,

1347
01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:18.640
<v Speaker 2>recommend all of them. Matter of fact, one of the

1348
01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:22.159
<v Speaker 2>very very few times that I have appeared on Amazon,

1349
01:21:22.399 --> 01:21:25.800
<v Speaker 2>I have a little book blurb if you will, on

1350
01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:29.279
<v Speaker 2>one of Larry's books on Amazon. Why because I highly

1351
01:21:29.319 --> 01:21:31.920
<v Speaker 2>recommend not only that book which I wrote something for

1352
01:21:32.640 --> 01:21:35.960
<v Speaker 2>which I was asked to do, but you know what,

1353
01:21:36.760 --> 01:21:39.239
<v Speaker 2>I recommend all of it, regardless of what you see

1354
01:21:39.239 --> 01:21:45.119
<v Speaker 2>written anywhere at any time. So Larryhancock, larrysh Hancock dot com,

1355
01:21:45.159 --> 01:21:47.520
<v Speaker 2>that's the place to go. Follow his work.

1356
01:21:47.560 --> 01:22:36.079
<v Speaker 7>And revelation through conversation in denial.

1357
01:22:36.680 --> 01:22:41.119
<v Speaker 6>Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks by Larry Hancock.

1358
01:22:41.880 --> 01:22:45.439
<v Speaker 6>Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and

1359
01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:49.640
<v Speaker 6>are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips

1360
01:22:49.760 --> 01:22:52.479
<v Speaker 6>the cover off many of them, using new files.

1361
01:22:52.479 --> 01:22:54.880
<v Speaker 8>It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no

1362
01:22:54.960 --> 01:22:57.960
<v Speaker 8>one has ever written about before. It shows why it

1363
01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:00.880
<v Speaker 8>really failed and why the United States did not earn

1364
01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:03.880
<v Speaker 8>from it. It also shows why other countries today are

1365
01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:07.640
<v Speaker 8>doing secret operations with more success. This is the book

1366
01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:11.119
<v Speaker 8>that puts what some want to deny into the light.

1367
01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:16.600
<v Speaker 8>In Denial, secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larry Hancock.

1368
01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:21.479
<v Speaker 8>For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com.

1369
01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:24.640
<v Speaker 8>Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot

1370
01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:26.439
<v Speaker 8>com in digital or physical.

1371
01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Yo Yo.

1372
01:23:27.079 --> 01:23:30.239
<v Speaker 9>This Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action podcast presented

1373
01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:33.199
<v Speaker 9>by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to the

1374
01:23:33.279 --> 01:23:37.359
<v Speaker 9>o'chilly effect revelation through conversation.

1375
01:23:37.479 --> 01:23:41.439
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead, Colin, I'm about the Dayfay assassination right, Well,

1376
01:23:41.439 --> 01:23:42.039
<v Speaker 2>what do you want to know.

1377
01:23:42.119 --> 01:23:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Any Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends he knew Ruby and

1378
01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Barry handswer weapons.

1379
01:23:47.079 --> 01:23:49.439
<v Speaker 2>Really I imagine I could claim I have four wheels.

1380
01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:52.439
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, on the.

1381
01:23:52.439 --> 01:23:54.960
<v Speaker 7>Building and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy

1382
01:23:55.000 --> 01:23:55.960
<v Speaker 7>Come on now has.

1383
01:23:55.840 --> 01:23:58.960
<v Speaker 3>A real effort on the day of Heay assassination into claim.

1384
01:23:59.119 --> 01:24:03.159
<v Speaker 2>Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her

1385
01:24:03.199 --> 01:24:06.079
<v Speaker 2>own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy

1386
01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:09.600
<v Speaker 2>of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words

1387
01:24:09.640 --> 01:24:12.520
<v Speaker 2>and the known evidence in the case to get at

1388
01:24:12.640 --> 01:24:16.079
<v Speaker 2>well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith

1389
01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:19.399
<v Speaker 2>Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself

1390
01:24:19.560 --> 01:24:22.640
<v Speaker 2>signed if you request it by contracting doctor Brown at

1391
01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:26.880
<v Speaker 2>k I as jfk at aol dot com. It's a

1392
01:24:26.920 --> 01:24:30.960
<v Speaker 2>fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic

1393
01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:33.880
<v Speaker 2>claims Judith varied Baker in her own.

1394
01:24:33.640 --> 01:24:36.760
<v Speaker 6>Words, thank you for the great information the VI's.

1395
01:24:36.560 --> 01:24:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Expressed by caller schools or anyone else who happens to

1396
01:24:38.640 --> 01:24:40.039
<v Speaker 2>get on the air who Jelly dot comf you not

1397
01:24:40.119 --> 01:24:42.960
<v Speaker 2>necessarily reflect deviews of jelly dot com or joo chilly,

1398
01:24:43.079 --> 01:24:45.319
<v Speaker 2>and we are not responsible. We're getting stupidity which might.

1399
01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:46.039
<v Speaker 3>Instudent than you.

1400
01:24:46.119 --> 01:24:48.760
<v Speaker 7>Revelation through Conversation.

1401
01:24:48.399 --> 01:24:51.600
<v Speaker 10>The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national

1402
01:24:51.640 --> 01:24:54.640
<v Speaker 10>transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in

1403
01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:58.119
<v Speaker 10>the context of the Times and reveals never before published

1404
01:24:58.119 --> 01:25:01.840
<v Speaker 10>information about the Cuban missile Christ. President Kennedy would not

1405
01:25:01.880 --> 01:25:04.479
<v Speaker 10>have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred

1406
01:25:04.560 --> 01:25:07.920
<v Speaker 10>years ago. His assassination took place in the context of

1407
01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:10.920
<v Speaker 10>the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.

1408
01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:12.199
<v Speaker 5>Before World War.

1409
01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:15.119
<v Speaker 10>II, the United States was a continental republic. In the

1410
01:25:15.159 --> 01:25:18.920
<v Speaker 10>decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such

1411
01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:22.000
<v Speaker 10>as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but

1412
01:25:22.119 --> 01:25:24.439
<v Speaker 10>knew that there were short range missiles on the island

1413
01:25:24.520 --> 01:25:27.640
<v Speaker 10>aren't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because

1414
01:25:27.680 --> 01:25:30.520
<v Speaker 10>they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led

1415
01:25:30.560 --> 01:25:33.439
<v Speaker 10>to a Third World War, and they wanted to go

1416
01:25:33.479 --> 01:25:37.399
<v Speaker 10>to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals

1417
01:25:37.479 --> 01:25:40.279
<v Speaker 10>why and will show you what President Kennedy was up against.

1418
01:25:40.479 --> 01:25:43.479
<v Speaker 10>For more information, the Warstate dot com.

1419
01:25:43.760 --> 01:25:46.199
<v Speaker 3>This is James Corbin at Coorter Report dot com and you're.

1420
01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Listening to the Ocelly Affected o'celly dot com in Denial.

1421
01:25:49.520 --> 01:25:54.199
<v Speaker 6>The Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock.

1422
01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:58.560
<v Speaker 6>Secret Wars became a staple of US covert operations and

1423
01:25:58.560 --> 01:26:02.920
<v Speaker 6>are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the

1424
01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:06.199
<v Speaker 6>cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes

1425
01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:08.399
<v Speaker 6>things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has

1426
01:26:08.439 --> 01:26:11.720
<v Speaker 6>ever written about before. It shows why it really failed

1427
01:26:11.760 --> 01:26:14.760
<v Speaker 6>and why the United States did not earn from it.

1428
01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:17.920
<v Speaker 6>It also shows why other countries today are doing secret

1429
01:26:17.920 --> 01:26:21.199
<v Speaker 6>operations with more success. This is the book that puts

1430
01:26:21.199 --> 01:26:25.279
<v Speaker 6>what some want to deny into the light. In Denial,

1431
01:26:25.680 --> 01:26:31.800
<v Speaker 6>secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhancock. For more information,

1432
01:26:32.000 --> 01:26:35.199
<v Speaker 6>go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your

1433
01:26:35.279 --> 01:26:38.800
<v Speaker 6>copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital

1434
01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:39.920
<v Speaker 6>or physical.

1435
01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:43.000
<v Speaker 11>Force, oh Chili dot com. Do you like history, Real

1436
01:26:43.119 --> 01:26:46.680
<v Speaker 11>history that you were never taught in schools? Why the

1437
01:26:46.760 --> 01:26:51.359
<v Speaker 11>Vietnam War, Nuclear Balls in nation Building in Southeast Asia

1438
01:26:51.479 --> 01:26:56.119
<v Speaker 11>by author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never seen before

1439
01:26:56.319 --> 01:26:59.199
<v Speaker 11>that'll open your eyes to events that led up to this.

1440
01:26:59.680 --> 01:27:04.600
<v Speaker 11>Why the Vietnam Warcuar, Moms and nation Building in Southeast

1441
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:09.319
<v Speaker 11>Asia nineteen forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get your

1442
01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:14.039
<v Speaker 11>copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War

1443
01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:15.000
<v Speaker 11>by author.

1444
01:27:14.840 --> 01:27:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Mike Swansonellowe dot com, Radio network, Bohellowe dot com, radio network.

1445
01:27:54.039 --> 01:28:04.039
<v Speaker 5>Ohchilly dot com

1446
01:28:04.199 --> 01:28:07.319
<v Speaker 9>Yo Yova's Doug Camp, host of the Dallas Action podcast

1447
01:28:07.399 --> 01:28:10.600
<v Speaker 9>presented by Wall Street Window, And you are listening to

1448
01:28:10.680 --> 01:28:15.000
<v Speaker 9>the o'chill effect revelation through conversation,