Speaker 1: Get ready.
Speaker 2: October twenty twenty four. Allegedly, according to that thing we
Speaker 2: call a calendar, this is the O'Kelly effect. It is
Speaker 2: a Wodin's day as I speak to you, Wednesday, middle
Speaker 2: of the week, that's right, And oddly enough, yesterday, when
Speaker 2: it was Tuesday, Tiesday, the second day of the week.
Speaker 2: You know, when you start counting from Monday and all
Speaker 2: that good stuff broadcast days, I should have been broadcasting. However, somehow,
Speaker 2: stupidly I thought all day that it was Monday, so
Speaker 2: I missed yesterday's broadcasts. We got a bunch of things
Speaker 2: to cramm in for this week to finish it out,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna be broadcasting every day in some way,
Speaker 2: shape or form, broadcasting and recording every single day, multiple shows, guys,
Speaker 2: from now until Sunday, all the way when we break
Speaker 2: into Monday where I'm sitting. Okay, so a lot of shows.
Speaker 2: I don't know. There's like eight or nine shows all
Speaker 2: together that are going to be produced in the next one, two, three, four,
Speaker 2: four full days and now. Okay, so get ready for it.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna be filler either. Tonight. We're gonna start
Speaker 2: off right away with Larry Hancock, the author of a
Speaker 2: great many books on my shelf, including someone would have
Speaker 2: talked including you know, let's see nexus including there are
Speaker 2: many tipping point great one to point out. And you know,
Speaker 2: I thought maybe Larry was done writing about the JFK assassination.
Speaker 2: But we've got something else and available for pre order
Speaker 2: right now, is indeed the Oswald Puzzle that is co
Speaker 2: authored by Larry Hancock and David Boylen b. You know,
Speaker 2: I always messed that at bo y l an. He
Speaker 2: said it's fine when I pronounced it that way. I
Speaker 2: have a feeling it's not. But who knows. Maybe he's
Speaker 2: used to it, or maybe he's just now so accustomed
Speaker 2: to it he accepts all pronunciations. But anyway, that's his
Speaker 2: co author on this one Oswald puzzle. Okay, and let's
Speaker 2: see is that exactly. I have a link right here
Speaker 2: which I'm gonna give to you guys in the chats
Speaker 2: and also anyplace else you ask for it. I'll give
Speaker 2: you the link because you can pre order it now
Speaker 2: as we speak. So it'll go into the live chatroom
Speaker 2: at ochelli dot com. And you guys will see that
Speaker 2: and know that, hey, I was broadcasting live even if
Speaker 2: you roll it back later and be that you can
Speaker 2: go and get the book now, and I already know
Speaker 2: it's going to be something good. We've been talking for
Speaker 2: months with Larry about this reevaluation, re examination, another sort
Speaker 2: of look at the historical figure that is Lee Harvey
Speaker 2: Oswald because of the evolution of actual solid evidence, other
Speaker 2: information streams, and who knows, maybe even the shift let's say,
Speaker 2: prejudices and biases which might have existed no offense to
Speaker 2: Larry but in his work and other researchers work previously,
Speaker 2: because there was just so many missing pieces to the puzzle, right,
Speaker 2: there were so many pieces that needed to be added
Speaker 2: and maybe a few that needed to be subtracted. Okay,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just that simple. And I'm trying to
Speaker 2: go to it right away to see if I can
Speaker 2: pick it up, and you know, it's funny. Let's see
Speaker 2: if we can get it directly. But I think I
Speaker 2: have the link already posted in the Ocelli chat room,
Speaker 2: and I do want to copy that link and see
Speaker 2: if I can get it again and run it straight
Speaker 2: away through my browser. And yes, indeed, Oswald Puzzle hardcover,
Speaker 2: it says it's going to be released January fourteen, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five, and Larry Joe Hancock is the author. David
Speaker 2: Boylin is also the author all that listed pre order
Speaker 2: price guaranteed and all that good stuff through Amazon dot com.
Speaker 2: So let's see, let's just make sure again we posted
Speaker 2: correctly in the Live Ocelli chat room. But those of
Speaker 2: you that hear this YA podcast later on, it will
Speaker 2: be included in the show notes. So with all that aside,
Speaker 2: and all of the previous mentions and previous podcasts. For
Speaker 2: many years now, I've done shows with Larry Hancock, gratefully, proudly,
Speaker 2: including a one oh one series to give people an
Speaker 2: idea about the well, the official and maybe somewhat an
Speaker 2: occasion slightly less than official ask you know, well investigations.
Speaker 2: That's the word I was searching for. Anyway, the investigations
Speaker 2: that took place, we gave you one oh one on that,
Speaker 2: we started a two on one series, dropped it there
Speaker 2: because it was seemingly like you needed to go do
Speaker 2: the research. After that, we did an entire series devoted
Speaker 2: to the Larry Hancock collection, which has now been added
Speaker 2: to since then, not only this book, but a couple
Speaker 2: other pieces. Meanwhile, he's written about a few other topics
Speaker 2: outside of the jfk assassination that are all interlinked to
Speaker 2: what the behaviors, procedures and activities of mostly the intelligence agencies,
Speaker 2: but through the lenses of political influenced the spheres thereof
Speaker 2: the public knowledge. Examining many, many things in context on
Speaker 2: this show to give you just a hint of all
Speaker 2: the information very carefully researched and presented by Larry Hancock,
Speaker 2: some other co authors, including Stu Wexler on other books,
Speaker 2: and indeed he's touched upon the Martin Luther King Junior assassination,
Speaker 2: the Robert F. Kennedy assassination, the John F. Kennedy assassination,
Speaker 2: the thing that we have now become accustomed to call
Speaker 2: UAPs instead of UFOs through book called Unidentified, and another
Speaker 2: piece of contextual history creating chaos. Heavy focus on well, Russia,
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union for sure, but there were other things
Speaker 2: going on there and we had to talk about that
Speaker 2: due to the links of Putin and his recent need
Speaker 2: to be discussed in mainstream media, his actions, the current
Speaker 2: conflict in Ukraine. All of that and the past history,
Speaker 2: plus the links to various other topics. It was necessary
Speaker 2: to discuss that. But also Larry covers the US and
Speaker 2: other individuals creating chaos so to speak, on the globe
Speaker 2: plus in denial. How about the way that you know
Speaker 2: these supposedly less than publicly observed actions of various agencies
Speaker 2: and military operations took place? And exactly how covert operations
Speaker 2: function for better or worse different time periods. Why why
Speaker 2: other nations had more success than well we, you know,
Speaker 2: the proverbial we did in recent history. Look, I just
Speaker 2: tried to capitalize it all, and I can't do it.
Speaker 2: But if you go to larrydsh Hancock dot com, you
Speaker 2: can not only follow Larry's blog and his most recent
Speaker 2: pieces of work, but you can roll it back and
Speaker 2: learn more from Larry Hancock than you can from I
Speaker 2: don't know just about any sort of collegiate experience you
Speaker 2: might have in a class that's supposed to focus on
Speaker 2: modern contemporary history, the intelligence agencies and how you know, political, psychological,
Speaker 2: and indeed covert warfare are conducted on the planet. I
Speaker 2: don't think you're going to find a class or even
Speaker 2: a set of classes that will handle it as well
Speaker 2: as Larry Hancock has throughout the years and the many
Speaker 2: volumes that he has written, and by the way, I
Speaker 2: recommend all of them one way or another depends on
Speaker 2: which point of entry you want to travel when it
Speaker 2: comes into getting into this topic. And the stuff is
Speaker 2: written so that an academic can certainly learn from it,
Speaker 2: so that a higher education can get value out of it.
Speaker 2: But it's all so accessible and understood if you are
Speaker 2: willing to dive into the complex pool that Larry has
Speaker 2: by doing his research, by investigating things, by revealing documentation,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Larrydashhancock dot com, like
Speaker 2: I said, follow his work, follow in there, but also
Speaker 2: you could follow him throughout the years on the Ocelly effect.
Speaker 2: So now that I'm done with that very long arduous,
Speaker 2: you know, introduction, Larry, Sorry, I know I'm long winded,
Speaker 2: But how are you doing tonight, sir?
Speaker 3: I'm doing fine. And that introduction kind of reminded me
Speaker 3: why at one point I decided I was done and
Speaker 3: would not need to write another book. But you know, okay,
Speaker 3: I did get over that, but I know I'm doing fine.
Speaker 3: We're still we're still working with publisher getting the things
Speaker 3: wrapped up. We've I think as we talked about, we
Speaker 3: have are adding a fairly large photo section to the book,
Speaker 3: and believe it or not, that's that's led to some
Speaker 3: more insights about oustl We've actually learned some things with
Speaker 3: those photos. But we've also learned that getting photo rights
Speaker 3: for book publication is a challenge unto itself. So yep,
Speaker 3: still very much involved with getting the the books written,
Speaker 3: now involved in getting it out.
Speaker 2: Well, the book's written, it is available again for pre
Speaker 2: sale at Amazon, and certainly going to remind people as
Speaker 2: to where they can get that a few times. But
Speaker 2: again in the show notes with the podcast, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera. You will see it there. But Larry, how
Speaker 2: about we start with the photos then, which is an
Speaker 2: odd place to begin. This is kind of unique. I mean,
Speaker 2: you've had photos and other books that you have written.
Speaker 2: For sure, you've certainly released other interesting photographic pieces before.
Speaker 2: But tell me what is going on here with the
Speaker 2: added challenge and could you give us a hint or
Speaker 2: at least one of those new pieces of information that
Speaker 2: you gathered from this process of getting authorization to reprint,
Speaker 2: to use, et cetera, these photographic pieces, could you give
Speaker 2: us I don't know, an anecdote or two about this
Speaker 2: to take a snapshot.
Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the things that is different
Speaker 3: in previous books. Sure we had had pictures of people,
Speaker 3: but we weren't really doing what we're doing in this book.
Speaker 3: In this book, we're telling Oswell's story. This is very
Speaker 3: much a picture of Oswell as an individual, Oswell as
Speaker 3: a character, the development of Lee R. V. Oswold, issues
Speaker 3: of continuity and his activities and his agenda. So it's
Speaker 3: a very personal story. So, you know, it's just in
Speaker 3: other books we might have shown one picture of a
Speaker 3: David Phillips or you know, a different CI officer, or
Speaker 3: you know, even in the King books. Yeah, we had
Speaker 3: some crime scene photos in the King books. But this
Speaker 3: is a different kind of book because it's a very
Speaker 3: personal book about an individual. And so for this book,
Speaker 3: we have to deal with this individual's life history. We
Speaker 3: have to capture it in a way that for example,
Speaker 3: the Warrant Commission did not I mean, everyone who's familiar
Speaker 3: with the JFK assassination was imprinted by Life magazine and
Speaker 3: by the cover photo of Life magazine with Lee Harvey
Speaker 3: Oswald holding rifle and wearing a pistol and a pistol belt.
Speaker 3: You know that that imprinted everyone starting right after the
Speaker 3: assassination and for decades. This is the immag of Lee
Speaker 3: Harvey Oswell. Obviously, you know, potentially a violent person. You know,
Speaker 3: a guy who can be expected to have shot the prayer.
Speaker 3: You know that established the perception of Lee Harvey Oswell.
Speaker 3: What we needed to do is go back and show
Speaker 3: the pictures that the Warrant Commission had, some of them
Speaker 3: of Lee Harvey Oswell as an individual. Pictures of Lee
Speaker 3: Harvey Oswell is a as a child, as a teenager,
Speaker 3: as a as a marine inside Russia. Right now, let
Speaker 3: me important pictures. So from a developmental standpoint, not that
Speaker 3: not that some of those pictures have not appeared before,
Speaker 3: but presenting them in a chronological fashion to support the
Speaker 3: story is much different than we've done in any other
Speaker 3: book that I've been involved.
Speaker 2: With, that you've been involved with. Right, So, what I
Speaker 2: was going to point out is that, obviously, like a
Speaker 2: book like Robert Crodin's In Search of Lee Harvey Oswald,
Speaker 2: which I have no problem adding a plug too here,
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the essential pieces of reference
Speaker 2: if you want a physical reference book in your hands.
Speaker 2: You know, from a photographic standpoint, it gives you a
Speaker 2: great deal of reference when it comes to Oswald, and
Speaker 2: it gives you a lot of stuff that wasn't seen elsewhere.
Speaker 2: Now there is the expose aspect of this, and you
Speaker 2: can show many fascinating things in other books, in other ways, etc.
Speaker 2: Much like in a film a motion picture way. For
Speaker 2: probably three decades, the one film that was taken by
Speaker 2: the US governments as a documentary of those last three
Speaker 2: days right or those last two days, whatever it was
Speaker 2: in Dallas, was whether people knew it or not, injected
Speaker 2: into nearly every single motion picture documentary in even theatrical films,
Speaker 2: if the Kennedy assassination was mentioned, if it was meant
Speaker 2: to be shown in a photographic way, two guarantees that
Speaker 2: you had in the world of documentaries and films. And
Speaker 2: the one guarantee was the use of that film by
Speaker 2: the US government, and the other was the still shot
Speaker 2: which came from Mary Mormon. Those two things were guaranteed
Speaker 2: images no matter what direction you went in. If you
Speaker 2: were a warrant commissioned supporter, if the whole point of
Speaker 2: it was to say Russia did it, it didn't matter
Speaker 2: what direction you were coming from. These things were universally inserted,
Speaker 2: so they became part of the overall image. And that
Speaker 2: happened because of the publication in a lot of books.
Speaker 2: A lot of stills became absolutely associated to xyz et cetera.
Speaker 2: Like Lee rvy Oswald's mug shot is probably one of
Speaker 2: the most famous mug shots in the world, right, even
Speaker 2: though we've seen many other celebrities, many other people of
Speaker 2: note or notoriety or notorious right notoriety one way or
Speaker 2: the other. We've seen a lot of their mug shots,
Speaker 2: but that mug shot was just you universal, It was
Speaker 2: there everywhere. Now that in mind, there is a big
Speaker 2: difference between utilizing the pictures to do something, to tell
Speaker 2: a story, to actually weave through a narrative, or to
Speaker 2: create one with the pictures. There's a big difference between
Speaker 2: doing that and simply attaching them, simply continuing on and
Speaker 2: showing continuity in a in a way with that universe.
Speaker 2: Let's say of media, and I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people's books have wasted time, you know, and and not
Speaker 2: not yours, necessarily, not anybody by name, but I will
Speaker 2: say a lot of people have wasted time simply attaching
Speaker 2: things that you've already seen elsewhere one way or another,
Speaker 2: and it's been done in a haphazard fashion. You know,
Speaker 2: in some cases people drew their own conclusions from images
Speaker 2: that were printed here there the other place, and in
Speaker 2: other cases people had to go and search things out
Speaker 2: and say, oh, look, in Jesse Curry's book, this part
Speaker 2: isn't redacted from a photo, which everywhere else it is.
Speaker 2: You know, stuff like that happened, But for the most part,
Speaker 2: people were attaching photos without utilizing them in and of
Speaker 2: themselves to do a job. What it sounds like to
Speaker 2: me you've done is very thoughtfully created a photographic section
Speaker 2: which actually serves purposes plural and you know, in some
Speaker 2: cases it might be to show people something brand new,
Speaker 2: but it's never that simple. It's not just I have
Speaker 2: a couple of pictures in here that are really important
Speaker 2: and brand new. Because, believe it or not, there was
Speaker 2: a time when I used to purchase books simply because
Speaker 2: I wanted that new picture that wasn't available anywhere else,
Speaker 2: and I would have to suffer through or sit there
Speaker 2: and ignore the text of a book because I simply
Speaker 2: wanted the photo section. I mean, that's the truth. About
Speaker 2: a couple of books I purchased in my life. I
Speaker 2: simply wanted to look at this thing, access it, find out,
Speaker 2: you know, is there a credit given for it? Where
Speaker 2: could I obtain a copy of this thing? And in
Speaker 2: some cases I would literally physically buy a book simply
Speaker 2: so I had it and I could examine what they had,
Speaker 2: determine what generation it was, et cetera, et cetera. Stuff
Speaker 2: like that I used to have to do, but not
Speaker 2: because these pictures told a story, but because the pictures
Speaker 2: in and of themselves may or may not have been
Speaker 2: relevant to something that could be investigated. So what you're
Speaker 2: telling me is you're not giving me the needle, the haystacks,
Speaker 2: and no map. You're actually providing us with a photo
Speaker 2: section that serves multiple purposes. Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And it has to be in a developmental fashion, man,
Speaker 3: for to treat Oswald as a as a new unique individually,
Speaker 3: we have to develop him and we have to watch,
Speaker 3: you know, his agenda develop, and we can see that,
Speaker 3: we can write about it, but we can see it
Speaker 3: letter if we see some examples of what's going on
Speaker 3: with him at a given time. Two or three examples
Speaker 3: of this in nineteen sixty three, nineteen sixty two, nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty three. If there's always been a lot of speculation
Speaker 3: of well, it's clear that Oswell was making copies of
Speaker 3: things at work. He was developing his photographic skills while
Speaker 3: he was working at Jaggerstowell. You know, is that suspicious?
Speaker 3: Why was he doing that? Why did he Why was
Speaker 3: this important to him? Is this like some kind of
Speaker 3: training as a spy? Well, he already was in Russia.
Speaker 3: What's going on with that? Well, it makes much more
Speaker 3: sense when you can show letters that are written to
Speaker 3: Oswald from the people that he was sending the materials
Speaker 3: that he was developing those skills for. When you see
Speaker 3: a letter from the worker saying, dear mister Oswald, thank
Speaker 3: you for sending us copies of this and this. Your
Speaker 3: photographic work is great. We appreciate your volunteering. You know,
Speaker 3: that makes some sense out of what's going on with
Speaker 3: Oswell at that point in time. It's very very important.
Speaker 3: Another thing we often and we couldn't put all the
Speaker 3: pictures that were of interest in of course we're limited,
Speaker 3: but we often don't see the other side of Oswall.
Speaker 3: I've now seen by looking at photo collections pictures or
Speaker 3: letters written to him after his return from the Soviet
Speaker 3: Union that were actually positive, like, oh, people are saying
Speaker 3: you're a trader. I don't believe that. I believe that
Speaker 3: you went there for a reason, and I believe Americans
Speaker 3: should be able to travel where they want to. Oswell
Speaker 3: did get reinforcement. We don't ever talk about or see that.
Speaker 3: And in the spring of nineteen sixty three we talk
Speaker 3: about the fact that, you know, you can see how
Speaker 3: his his beliefs are developing. He was actually invited to
Speaker 3: speak at as a Jesuits training school, right, and he
Speaker 3: went delivered a presentation. We've all known that, We've talked
Speaker 3: about it happening. In the book. We show you a
Speaker 3: picture of one of several thank you letters that were
Speaker 3: written to him by people who listen to that speech
Speaker 3: that elaborate on what they learned from him. They're real
Speaker 3: positive reactions to him. Again, Oswell was not a loner.
Speaker 3: Oswell was interacting with people. He was actually reaching out
Speaker 3: and he was getting feedback as his own personal agenda developed, right,
Speaker 3: And that kind of gives you a sense of what's
Speaker 3: going on with him. But you know, when you talk
Speaker 3: about those things piecemeal, it's different than when you see
Speaker 3: them in a serious developmental series in the book book.
Speaker 2: Well right, And I think that there's also the personal aspect,
Speaker 2: which is often missing because people ascribe a certain personality
Speaker 2: to him and then they are stuck trying to stick
Speaker 2: to that. I think in some cases, you know, he
Speaker 2: could be producing photos not only to seek out that
Speaker 2: positive reinforcement, you know, but to interact with some of
Speaker 2: those people. Sure you love those pictures, I'll send you
Speaker 2: some more. He might have also started to ascribe importance
Speaker 2: to certain things because people have asked questions about what
Speaker 2: it is he chose to retain and you know, and
Speaker 2: stuff like that over the years, and there's been weird
Speaker 2: statements about it. Well, he kept this because operationally, not necessarily,
Speaker 2: it may have been chuck.
Speaker 3: I hate to break in, but I got to tell
Speaker 3: you that's what we learned by going through the photo section.
Speaker 3: Oz Will kept everything, got a receipt for a subscription.
Speaker 3: Oswa was a pack rat. If anybody thinks that he
Speaker 3: was selective in what he collected, no, it's amazing what
Speaker 3: you find in the materials taken from his private possessions.
Speaker 3: The kind of junk stuff he read aimed. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like everything, every piece of paper, it's it's all there.
Speaker 4: So I had not fully realized that until I started
Speaker 4: looking at again samples of that the Dallas police had collected,
Speaker 4: like I say, receipts and copies of his you.
Speaker 3: Know, tax payments and copies of this and that, and
Speaker 3: and it's amazing. You see his reading material. Everybody, Oh,
Speaker 3: we don't know what Oswald really thought. Yeah, if you
Speaker 3: look at all the stuff he was reading this he
Speaker 3: kept it off. As a matter of fact, apparently he
Speaker 3: made sure that when he went to Russia he left
Speaker 3: it in a place where he could retrieve it when
Speaker 3: he got back. Photos a huge photo collection. Guy had
Speaker 3: a photo album. They didn't even have time to photo everything.
Speaker 3: They took dozens and dozens of individual photos and then
Speaker 3: shot of his photo album. It's really I had not
Speaker 3: really appreciated his pack rat nature and the fact that
Speaker 3: he constantly took photos. We think of the backyard photos
Speaker 3: and maybe seen something unusual and anomalous. No, no, he
Speaker 3: took photos all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he actually an honest interest in photography. And again
Speaker 2: that is way different than what somebody who has an
Speaker 2: interest in photography would take today, and even if you
Speaker 2: wind back thirty years, that's a whole different animal from now.
Speaker 2: And also from his time period, they didn't have the
Speaker 2: Kodak disc, you know what I'm saying. In the nineteen sixties,
Speaker 2: they didn't have, you know, the disposable cameras like we
Speaker 2: had for a while when film was still a thing.
Speaker 2: When was the last time you knew somebody to actually
Speaker 2: take film to remember, this was the thing for about
Speaker 2: what twenty years. Taking your film to the pharmacy was
Speaker 2: commonplace in a lot of places because because cheap cameras
Speaker 2: were everywhere. No, there was a point at which you
Speaker 2: had to have either an expensive camera or you know,
Speaker 2: or you had to very much take care of some
Speaker 2: weird little thing that did produce photos. But either way,
Speaker 2: your interest in photography was easily seen in the sixties
Speaker 2: and seventies and eighties based on what you had and
Speaker 2: what you were willing to use. Now, on top of that,
Speaker 2: if he did something, it caught something photographically that he
Speaker 2: thought was significant, he would make multiple copies. See that's
Speaker 2: what I see with the you know, well, gee, was
Speaker 2: he using you know, his his machines at work to
Speaker 2: do stuff? And well, maybe he was, and not because
Speaker 2: it was secret work and this and that, but because
Speaker 2: it was kind of a cheapskate too. That's something I've
Speaker 2: heard from many people that knew him that he didn't
Speaker 2: really if he could figure out a way to not
Speaker 2: spend some money to be cruval, he definitely did it.
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking to myself, just like people did when,
Speaker 2: you know, copy machines were a big deal. You know
Speaker 2: a lot of people used to go to work and
Speaker 2: have a copy machine at work and you didn't have
Speaker 2: one at home. They weren't something that was usually at home.
Speaker 2: A lot of people would make copies at work and
Speaker 2: you know, just the copy machine just to make a
Speaker 2: paper copies. So I need to make copies. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: have to go find a place that makes copies. That
Speaker 2: used to be a thing folks. And they would go, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'll take care of it. I have a copy machine
Speaker 2: at work. And then they started and really people got
Speaker 2: fired over this and all kinds of things overuse of
Speaker 2: the copy machine. You know, whether it was making flyers
Speaker 2: for your kids school event or it was something else.
Speaker 2: You would get told, oh, you cannot use this for
Speaker 2: personal use. That was the thing and that was just
Speaker 2: photo that was like the copies of things on paper.
Speaker 2: When you had access to photographic copies. Well, I knew
Speaker 2: people that did that too, and believe me, they would
Speaker 2: figure out ways to get free photoprints and extra sets
Speaker 2: of prints sent to people or to themselves. There's a
Speaker 2: whole thing that goes on here, and mister cheapskate, if
Speaker 2: you could figure out a way to kind of do
Speaker 2: it not get in trouble, maybe he did. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've never looked at those work records because I don't
Speaker 2: think anybody has gotten him entirely, have they.
Speaker 3: He did not get in trouble, Okay not what as
Speaker 3: a matter of fact, and I think it's important to
Speaker 3: point out he made himself fairly skilled. And if you
Speaker 3: want to talk about how history might have changed when
Speaker 3: he came back to Dallas in the fall of nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty three, the first thing he did when he got
Speaker 3: back to Dallas is started applying for jobs all over
Speaker 3: the place. And he actually we have the documents that
Speaker 3: show when he had gone to Mexico City he listed
Speaker 3: his occupation as photographer. When he came back, one of
Speaker 3: the first things he did was to apply at other
Speaker 3: photographic processing houses like Jaggerstovell, and I've sent in his
Speaker 3: copy of letter. They were interested. He had a job offered.
Speaker 3: They wanted to hire him, and just on his bad luck,
Speaker 3: the gotten manager that wanted to hire him called Jaggers
Speaker 3: on a reference that he had listed and happened that
Speaker 3: day to get the manager who was in and the
Speaker 3: manager said, well, this work was fine, except you know,
Speaker 3: it made people nervous sometimes here because he spoke Russian,
Speaker 3: and they didn't hire him. You know, I think what
Speaker 3: have happened if that manager had just hired Lee Harvey
Speaker 3: Oswell into a photo processing plan again in Dallas, in
Speaker 3: you know, November nineteen sixty.
Speaker 2: Three, he certainly wouldn't have time, you know, ostensibly, off
Speaker 2: the top of my head, probably wouldn't have time to
Speaker 2: go refinishing floors at the school book depository, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, which is his original work. Thing was
Speaker 2: he was brought over there temporarily right in order to
Speaker 2: help finish the floors, if I remember correctly, that was
Speaker 2: that was one of the main jobs.
Speaker 3: And then they had assigned some of the longer term
Speaker 3: workers there to do the floors, and he was brought
Speaker 3: in temporarily until they finished the floors to do the route,
Speaker 3: because they were they wanted to retain those guys. They
Speaker 3: were long term employees, and I think they probably trusted
Speaker 3: him a little bit more. They had worked in both buildings,
Speaker 3: but he was kind of a temporary slot as a
Speaker 3: book filler while they were working on the flooring.
Speaker 2: Well, I know it was brought up while he was
Speaker 2: being hired that that was one of the reasons for it, right,
Speaker 2: that they needed extra people because of this redoing the floors. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then yeah, they did make him in order for
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that's all he started at. I'm just
Speaker 2: saying that seems to me like he wouldn't have time
Speaker 2: for that if he had gotten a job in the
Speaker 2: first graphic field, where they also would have paid him more.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and that's the kind of job he wanted.
Speaker 3: He wouldn't have been looking for more jobs, we know
Speaker 3: than in November he was looking for other jobs. He
Speaker 3: interviewed for other jobs. But again, just to get back
Speaker 3: to basically the two points Oswald, what we try to
Speaker 3: do in the book is give the picture of Oswald
Speaker 3: to the Warrant Committee, the warret Commisson had much of
Speaker 3: this information, it just didn't match what the message that
Speaker 3: they wanted to deliver. So the characterization of Oswald, you
Speaker 3: know what, we faced the fact that there are two
Speaker 3: contra characterizations of Oswalt, one by the Warren Commission that
Speaker 3: wants to present him a certain way, you know, another
Speaker 3: within the conspiracy community, which has kind of got its
Speaker 3: own ways of presenting everything he does is being suspicious.
Speaker 3: Nobody really has dealt with Lee Oswall is just okay,
Speaker 3: this is Lee Harvey Oswald, this is this is his character,
Speaker 3: is his development, This is his agenda, not anybody else's agenda.
Speaker 3: How do we know that? Well, you can see that
Speaker 3: when you start looking at his correspondence, when you start
Speaker 3: looking at his possessions, his job application, and long story
Speaker 3: short that but that's one of the reasons the photo
Speaker 3: section in the book is to present Oswald in a
Speaker 3: way that the Warrant Commission did not and could they
Speaker 3: intentionally avoided a real life picture of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Speaker 2: Right, And as you very fairly stated, Okay, let's be
Speaker 2: extremely fair here. It's not just the Warren Commission and
Speaker 2: the official explanations that seized upon a particular either agenda
Speaker 2: or type of agenda to move forward with really truly
Speaker 2: not examining things from the point of view that we
Speaker 2: kind of all wish they would have, you know, in
Speaker 2: a perfect world and open investigation, something that you know
Speaker 2: goes after this from all angles. Let's let the information
Speaker 2: build the narrative, as opposed to building a prosecutor's brief
Speaker 2: and then filling in the blanks, which it very much
Speaker 2: seems like they did. So let's look at your table
Speaker 2: of contents, okay, And I think what's fascinating here as
Speaker 2: I look at it is that this was a very
Speaker 2: intentional outline that allows us to do precisely what you're
Speaker 2: talking about, which is step back. Yes, we can use
Speaker 2: all that information most likely or not all of it,
Speaker 2: but maybe a whole lot of it that was developed
Speaker 2: by people that had agendas. But let's temper this properly
Speaker 2: and go at it from the terms like I'm going
Speaker 2: to read off to everybody if you don't mind, I'd
Speaker 2: like to, in an uninterrupted way, read off the chapters
Speaker 2: here that you've given me in a list and not
Speaker 2: even really break them up, just pause and give people
Speaker 2: an idea of what the overall narrative that is being
Speaker 2: built here is would that be okay with you?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And one thing that we'll do check is clearly show
Speaker 3: that this is actually two books and one on the
Speaker 3: first book is Lee Harvey Oswald and the second book
Speaker 3: is Lee Harvey Oswald on November twenty second.
Speaker 2: Ah, okay, so really we begin anew when the chapter
Speaker 2: actually says November twenty second slash alternative views. Is that right?
Speaker 3: That would be it?
Speaker 2: Okay? Now, just one quick question before I read this off,
Speaker 2: and I do want to read it off und uninterrupted
Speaker 2: as best I can. I won't even interrupt myself, which
Speaker 2: I am likely to do on occasion. But before I
Speaker 2: do that, does the photo section cover the entirety of
Speaker 2: this two book format or is it really focused in
Speaker 2: one area in particular?
Speaker 3: Or what the photo section? It's broken into two parts.
Speaker 3: One is the first section is Lee Harvey Osweald basically
Speaker 3: before Dallas. In other words, Lee Harvey Oswell as a child,
Speaker 3: as a teenager in the Marines, in Russia. This is
Speaker 3: Lee Harvey Oswell up to you know, his return to
Speaker 3: the United States, and that it ends with I and
Speaker 3: Marina and baby June coming back to the United States.
Speaker 3: The second section is Lee Harvey Oswald essentially in nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty two nineteen sixty three, what's going on with him
Speaker 3: specifically during that time period, you know, as the best
Speaker 3: we can that does extend into yeah, what was he
Speaker 3: doing in the spring? Was what happens at the time
Speaker 3: of his arrest? You know this is but it's not
Speaker 3: a book about the assassination per se. It is a
Speaker 3: book about Lee Harvey Oswald, covering what happened to him
Speaker 3: on November twenty second, quite frankly through his death and funeral.
Speaker 2: So two sections, Okay, Well, to be honest with you, Larry, I, personally,
Speaker 2: because of that photo, section would break it into three.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why. Because the transitional time here,
Speaker 2: when you get up to him returning and him returning
Speaker 2: with Marina, it seems to me as though that could
Speaker 2: end the story there. But then we have, you know,
Speaker 2: what you call a turn to activism. And I'm going
Speaker 2: to read all these chapters in a row and give
Speaker 2: people an idea of the overall singular narrative. But it
Speaker 2: seems like if you if you break there and then
Speaker 2: keep what's there until we get to November twenty second,
Speaker 2: it almost seems like three sections is appropriate.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts already at the publisher.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's already at the publisher, But I'm just asking you.
Speaker 2: I mean, could one not Heah.
Speaker 3: Look, there aren't actually enough pictures, I mean quite frankly,
Speaker 3: unless you decide to go into all of the pictures
Speaker 3: that we all know so well from the assassination itself,
Speaker 3: and we feel people have seen that. You know, we're
Speaker 3: not dealing with the shooting of the president, so we're
Speaker 3: looking at pictures of just Lee Harvey Oswald.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because, believe it or not, I think if you
Speaker 2: just take a look at the illustrations of Groden's book
Speaker 2: and you line this up. Now, I haven't seen the
Speaker 2: photo section, by the way, guys, so I would like
Speaker 2: to see it. But it almost feels like to me,
Speaker 2: I could break this into three sections myself at home.
Speaker 2: You know, I have the book. Now, I can do
Speaker 2: what I want. I can break it into three sections
Speaker 2: and just take out my trusty copy of In Search
Speaker 2: of Lee Harvey Oswald by Robert Grodin and lay his
Speaker 2: picture is not necessarily his text, but his photographs alongside
Speaker 2: of this, and I might be able to fill in
Speaker 2: the blanks. What do you think of that?
Speaker 3: That that you could that reminds me of the Christmas
Speaker 3: that I spent taking the book about photographs of that
Speaker 3: day in Dallas, you know, very very expensive hardbound book
Speaker 3: and cutting it apart to re sequence everything until I
Speaker 3: understood the motorcade and my wife came out and went,
Speaker 3: didn't you just pay forty dollars for that book that
Speaker 3: you're now cutting apart? And I went, dear, maybe I
Speaker 3: should just go wrap your prison, you know, so I
Speaker 3: can picture doing that check. I really can't.
Speaker 2: Larry. It sounds like you and I had a similar
Speaker 2: Christmas once, except my book was fifty dollars instead of forty,
Speaker 2: and my horrified was it let's see wife, my horrified
Speaker 2: excuse me, my horrified girlfriend at the time was sitting
Speaker 2: there saying, you bought two copies of this for that reason. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you change that story a little bit. You and
Speaker 2: I did the same thing. Seriously. I took it, and
Speaker 2: I'm not going to name the book, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can do it this time too. Feel free
Speaker 3: to buy two copies, no problem.
Speaker 2: So maybe I'll buy two copies of Larry's physical book
Speaker 2: and I'll reshape it but let's give you the overall
Speaker 2: singular narrative as laid out in the book, and you
Speaker 2: when once you have it to yourself, you could do
Speaker 2: it digitally on a computer, or you could do it
Speaker 2: by hand with a razor blade like I did. Or
Speaker 2: did you use rate the whole razor blade kind of
Speaker 2: thing and do that Larry?
Speaker 5: Or no?
Speaker 3: I think I just had a good cetus.
Speaker 2: There's either way it works. And then you just cut
Speaker 2: and paste yourself. And then your only problem becomes when
Speaker 2: they have things on two sides. And then you got
Speaker 2: to sit there and go, well, is it primarily the
Speaker 2: thing on this side or this side that I want
Speaker 2: to make sure I have? And that becomes your only difficulty,
Speaker 2: and then you say to yourself, can I afford a
Speaker 2: third copy? So anyway, all of that fun aside, And
Speaker 2: by the way, yeah, we encourage you two or three
Speaker 2: copies of this. Go right ahead, cut them up, rearrange them,
Speaker 2: and you know, show people when they come to your house.
Speaker 2: This is my reformulated version of Larry's book. And I
Speaker 2: can also point you to a place to get a
Speaker 2: cheap copy of Groden's older book, So if you wanted to,
Speaker 2: you could intersperse this and create this unique thing. Anyway,
Speaker 2: now that I've given people an arts and crafts project, Larry,
Speaker 2: let's get to the narrative, the arts and crafts project
Speaker 2: that you've actually provided to all of us here to
Speaker 2: mentally resemble, re edit, almost like the Jepersonian Bible, where
Speaker 2: he recut the Bible. I'm thinking of. You know, historically,
Speaker 2: it's interesting recutting it, but don't recut it until you've
Speaker 2: actually gone through it first. And here's why the book
Speaker 2: chapters are as follows. Are you ready for this, Larry,
Speaker 2: I'm ready all right, And it goes like this. Every
Speaker 2: pause will be the next chapter. But please continue on
Speaker 2: thinking of these as separate in your minds, guys, because
Speaker 2: again this theater of the mind. Little audio. So here
Speaker 2: we go. Viewpoints, character and development, Expanded horizons, Breaking Away,
Speaker 2: Russian Saga, Back in the USA, Lee and Marina, Marina
Speaker 2: and Lee, A turn to Activism, New Orleans, Oswald, Entangled,
Speaker 2: Oswald's Agenda, Mexico City, Oswald and the CIA. November twenty second,
Speaker 2: Alternative Views, dre Backstory, Independent Action, Oswald and Miami Cubans,
Speaker 2: Oswald and New Orleans Cubans. Framing Oswald under the Influence,
Speaker 2: and then the epilogue, and the only thing I added
Speaker 2: in there is and then the epilogue. Okay, the epilogue
Speaker 2: is there, but the end then is all meat. So
Speaker 2: aside from that, and I'll put that exactly. I'll give
Speaker 2: you the chapters here in the Ocelli chat room. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I'll include them in the text of
Speaker 2: the podcast, but possibly I will. Why not, we can
Speaker 2: put it in the show notes, Larry, if that's okay
Speaker 2: with you, that's fine. But here are the chapters as
Speaker 2: presented in there in the live Ocelli chat room. For
Speaker 2: those of you that you know might have missed something,
Speaker 2: you can also rewind it. But that to me lays
Speaker 2: out the narrative. Although I still claim that we could
Speaker 2: break just before a turn to activism and end at
Speaker 2: Oswald and the CIA, and that is your middle section here,
Speaker 2: and you could break it into three. But you could
Speaker 2: probably do it without the photographs, honestly, and still break
Speaker 2: it into three. And you have a very very logical,
Speaker 2: step by step walk through the guy who is Lee
Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald, and it is a puzzle. It's still you know, look,
Speaker 2: as much as you've assembled hear Larry, you must say
Speaker 2: it still resembles a puzzle as opposed to and entirely
Speaker 2: completely filled in absolutely perfect image in and of itself. Right,
Speaker 2: you still have some holes in this image, would you say,
Speaker 2: or do you think you've actually filled them all? In?
Speaker 3: Oh, certainly we have holes. In terms of the second
Speaker 3: half of the book, let's let's let's be realistic looking
Speaker 3: at from a historical perspective.
Speaker 2: Beginning at November twenty second.
Speaker 3: Book is well documented, Okay, I mean we have all
Speaker 3: sorts of records, photo we have Oswald's own possessions, his
Speaker 3: own writing characterizing Oswald historically as straightforward.
Speaker 2: The stuff collected by the Dallas Police, as well as
Speaker 2: things that have been collected afterwards over the years, even right,
Speaker 2: the additional backyard photograph, et cetera, et cetera. All of
Speaker 2: that stuff that has been collected cumulatively over time is
Speaker 2: documents the first half all the way up to we
Speaker 2: get to November twenty second, and alternative views all the
Speaker 2: way up to that part you're saying is very well
Speaker 2: documented photographically and otherwise. Yes, yeah, And I.
Speaker 3: Have no in my own mind, I have no problem
Speaker 3: with that being the correct story. One of the good points.
Speaker 3: And as with any history, yeah, we have Oswell in
Speaker 3: his own way. And fortunately Oswald wrote a lot, He
Speaker 3: made a lot of notes, he wrote a lot, he
Speaker 3: read a lot. We have all of that. It's it's
Speaker 3: impossible to think that that's all artificial. That is Oswald
Speaker 3: Oswell being the cheap skate that you're talking about. Oswald's
Speaker 3: saving the receipts for the books and magazines and subscriptions
Speaker 3: he ordered. Absolutely and Osweald, for example, No, he's not
Speaker 3: going to buy something for the household, but he's sure
Speaker 3: going to pay the subscription for those newsletters he wants
Speaker 3: to read every month.
Speaker 2: Right, So the worker, Yeah, the real person, right, the worker?
Speaker 2: And what was the other one? Actually opens up in
Speaker 2: my head. I can't remember it.
Speaker 3: The militant, the.
Speaker 2: Militant, The worker and the militant. Their subscriptions and renewals
Speaker 2: were certainly accounted for.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: If at any point in time they told him he
Speaker 2: had not paid for a subscription, he could probably provide
Speaker 2: them with a copy readily that he had and which
Speaker 2: year would you like it from? Very simple. Now. The
Speaker 2: other thing is that some of his stuff, it's not
Speaker 2: like everything was meticulously checked in orderly fashion, because a
Speaker 2: lot of people would point to, well, gee, you know,
Speaker 2: that was so weird that that highlight receipt, you know,
Speaker 2: from Mexico City turns up in a TV guide or whatever.
Speaker 2: To me, actually, as much as I don't believe Patricia
Speaker 2: and her story there or whatever, Priscilla what was her name, Patricia, Priscilla,
Speaker 2: I always mix that up.
Speaker 3: Priscilla McMillan, Priscilla McMillan.
Speaker 2: Sorry, you know why I keep going to Patricia because
Speaker 2: my ex wife and okay, sorry anyway, but Priscilla there
Speaker 2: McMillan finding this because she's living with Marina, right, and
Speaker 2: this is the evidence that pops up a long time later.
Speaker 2: People go, well, that's totally suspicious. Actually, in my mind,
Speaker 2: sometimes he didn't seem to be all that neat about this.
Speaker 2: He might have stuffed something like that into anything. It
Speaker 2: might be a bookmarker in his creative writing later. Even
Speaker 2: though he's saving that receipt, it's not like everything was
Speaker 2: filed perfectly, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Well, and also look at it's not like Oswald has
Speaker 3: a home of his own where I come home and
Speaker 3: I go to my office and my filing capt well
Speaker 3: is traveling my next points. He's got multiple apartments he's
Speaker 3: living in. He's leaving living at the YMCA. Then he
Speaker 3: goes over to the Paines where he wie, he's going
Speaker 3: to put something at the Pains you know. Yeah, Marina
Speaker 3: has a bedroom she sleeps in with the kids. His
Speaker 3: stuff is packed away, and you know where do you
Speaker 3: expect stuff is going to end?
Speaker 2: Well, for better or worse. There's a whole book devoted
Speaker 2: to missus Payne's garage, Okay, for a reason, because he
Speaker 2: had a lot of stuff out there. I mean, so
Speaker 2: he's got stuff stored with his wife, he's not living
Speaker 2: with He's got stuff in his uh, you know, in
Speaker 2: his brother's hands. Looks like at a certain point his
Speaker 2: mom has some things. He's got stuff kind of spread
Speaker 2: everywhere in a way because his own permanent residence where
Speaker 2: he can reliably store. It's not like he can go, Look,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna buy a file cabinet and I'm gonna put
Speaker 2: it where Lee, where are you putting it? Because you
Speaker 2: know you're moving from place to place, you're picking up
Speaker 2: your family. You went to New Orleans, you went back
Speaker 2: to Texas. What are we doing here? So he's got
Speaker 2: stuff that winds up spread around, not because he's trying to,
Speaker 2: but just based on circumstances as they emerge. Well, these
Speaker 2: things get packed up. And I don't know about you,
Speaker 2: but if you've ever had somebody assist you with packing
Speaker 2: your things when you've gone to move somewhere, oh, there's
Speaker 2: a whole unpredictable level of where stuff can end up. Right,
Speaker 2: So the idea that something might have been stuffed into
Speaker 2: a TV guide or whatever else, as much as I
Speaker 2: don't believe Priscilla about a lot of things, she says,
Speaker 2: the idea that she could have run across this stuck
Speaker 2: in a book as a bookmarker. He could have flipped
Speaker 2: it over and decided to write a note on the
Speaker 2: back of it, and therefore it ends up somewhere entirely
Speaker 2: different highlight receipt if I remember right. So it's not
Speaker 2: like this earth shaking significant thing that it got stuck somewhere. Weird.
Speaker 2: He's moving a lot, and so is his things, and
Speaker 2: you know, some thing's probably got lost, and some thing's
Speaker 2: got misplaced, and et cetera, et cetera. I mean, or
Speaker 2: am I making too much.
Speaker 5: Of this now?
Speaker 3: And if anyone's ever been through it. It's kind of
Speaker 3: strange that people think that that it is strange. I mean,
Speaker 3: having moved overseas in the service, having left stuff with
Speaker 3: my brother, having left stuff with my wife's parents, my parents,
Speaker 3: he went to me, moving into multiple different apartments. It
Speaker 3: kind of amazes me that I still have as much
Speaker 3: of my stuff as I do.
Speaker 2: So he goes to the military another time, when your
Speaker 2: stuff ends up somewhere where you are not okay, you
Speaker 2: know what do you have when you go into the military.
Speaker 2: Whatever's in your foot locker or whatever. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. You have your uniforms, et cetera. And sure
Speaker 2: you can acquire some personal life, but you go in
Speaker 2: there with nothing except you know what, whatever's in a
Speaker 2: double bag. You might be allowed, I don't remember. But
Speaker 2: the idea is you're not exactly going in there with
Speaker 2: the furnishings of your home, uh and all of your books,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. You're you're limited. Okay, You're in
Speaker 2: a place where limited space is allowed for you, and
Speaker 2: you're there for a period of time. And he spent
Speaker 2: a period of time like that and was in Japan.
Speaker 2: We all know that he's in Russia. He couldn't drag
Speaker 2: everything with him there, so all that travel, all of
Speaker 2: that uncertainty about where his home base is and whereas
Speaker 2: things are going to be. I don't see how you
Speaker 2: can logically say that he reliably put anything anywhere based
Speaker 2: on all that. Maybe it's just me.
Speaker 3: And another thing that we have. And again, something we
Speaker 3: tried to do in the book very carefully is corroboration.
Speaker 3: You know, if somebody said something about Lee Harvey Oswald,
Speaker 3: did somebody independently observe this same thing. And one of
Speaker 3: the things that proved very helpful is we've had some
Speaker 3: sources emerge over time. I became very good friends with
Speaker 3: a retired marine named Jack Slike, who served as a
Speaker 3: counterintelligence agent at Atsugi, where Oswald had served. He showed
Speaker 3: up a few months after Oswald had been there, but
Speaker 3: he had the opportunity to question lots of guys that
Speaker 3: had known Oswald and the marine to marine, you know,
Speaker 3: not Warren commissioned stafford to marine, Marine to marine. He
Speaker 3: knew the protocols and procedures, how they handle things that
Speaker 3: at Sugi security wise, how things went down, and doing
Speaker 3: surveillance on the bars. Jack was a great source of
Speaker 3: information on procedures to give us an insight into Oswald.
Speaker 3: One of Jack's things that he pointed out to me
Speaker 3: and actually was that the Warren Commission again was very selective,
Speaker 3: and it interviewed a lot of marines, but it was
Speaker 3: very selective in how they used their information. Uh something
Speaker 3: else And you and I have talked about this Ernst
Speaker 3: Tittivitz Ernst tittivits insights and being a close personal friend
Speaker 3: in Russia of Oswald when he was working in the factory,
Speaker 3: through his various relationship with women's es, courting a Marina,
Speaker 3: knowing Marina quite well, and knowing them after they got married. Again,
Speaker 3: when you can take different individuals and bring them together
Speaker 3: and go, you know, can I crosscheck this stuff? Does it?
Speaker 3: Does it make sense? Or is it out of sync?
Speaker 3: Was very helpful in the book. And that that's something
Speaker 3: again actually the Warren Commission avoided doing and to some
Speaker 3: extent so as conspiracy research, we we tend to leave
Speaker 3: in our live in our own silo. Right, if we
Speaker 3: see something that we find that suspicious, that's what we
Speaker 3: want to see, right, we don't go, you know, check
Speaker 3: three other sources and oh did they see it the
Speaker 3: same thing. Well, but the one advantage that we did
Speaker 3: in writing about Lee Rby Oswall at this point in
Speaker 3: time is that we literally had a more comprehensive you
Speaker 3: that we could use to cross check, and that was
Speaker 3: very helpful.
Speaker 2: Right right, So, look, I got a couple of sort
Speaker 2: of open questions that relate to the book. I'd like
Speaker 2: to get to those, and then I want to summarize
Speaker 2: this whole thing by handing it over to you and saying, Larry,
Speaker 2: what if I haven't already made the case for somebody
Speaker 2: who was interested in this topic to pick up this
Speaker 2: book because it's going to be an essential piece of
Speaker 2: reading for you to catch up on a more evolved,
Speaker 2: more modern look with better information, evidence, photographic section, et
Speaker 2: cetera at Lee Harvey Oswald. If I haven't made that
Speaker 2: case enough, I want you to make a case for
Speaker 2: why this book is unique with a you know, a
Speaker 2: couple of minutes of quick summary if you don't mind.
Speaker 2: But before we go there, I have a couple of
Speaker 2: loose questions that do relate to the book and some
Speaker 2: of what we talked about but might not have otherwise
Speaker 2: gotten asked, if you don't mind. That come from the
Speaker 2: live chat room, no problem. Okay. So a quick question
Speaker 2: about photographs, and I don't know if you want to
Speaker 2: reveal something like this or not, but it's up to you.
Speaker 2: Does aj Weberman have exclusive photos still or are they
Speaker 2: in Larry's book because apparently Weberman had some photographs that
Speaker 2: he was claiming exclusivity over for a while. Did you
Speaker 2: run into that issue with anything that you put into
Speaker 2: this to be published?
Speaker 3: And no, we literally could not. We the publisher requires
Speaker 3: that we have legal permissions to use everything that we found,
Speaker 3: so we had to go. So the answer to the
Speaker 3: question is, I honestly don't know if Weberman still has
Speaker 3: anything exclusive that he hasn't shared, but no, we're not
Speaker 3: using anything from Weberman.
Speaker 2: As far as you know, nothing that being used has
Speaker 2: anything to do with me.
Speaker 3: And anything that we're using certainly would not be exclusive
Speaker 3: to Weberman.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's all I wanted to get at. Let's see. Oh, okay,
Speaker 2: about the unknown fingerprint, the infamous You know, for years
Speaker 2: a lot of people said it was mac Wallace's print,
Speaker 2: and quite honestly, to my satisfaction, Joan Mellon has quite
Speaker 2: well proven it is not. But putting that issue aside,
Speaker 2: since the unknown fingerprint on the sixth floor wasn't mac
Speaker 2: Wallace's print, shouldn't someone have run that thing through codes
Speaker 2: or whatever the fingerprint software is. Seems like someone would
Speaker 2: be curious. So here's what the follow up question is
Speaker 2: I think on this altogether is, Look, we all know
Speaker 2: this fingerprint exists, it's part of the evidence collection. Has
Speaker 2: anyone to your knowledge, gone through and I don't know
Speaker 2: on an independent search to try and you know, we've
Speaker 2: disproven whose bid might be. What has anyone gone through
Speaker 2: and said, can we find a match for this supper
Speaker 2: somewhere in the case?
Speaker 3: And that would be the FBI's athist collection of fingerprints.
Speaker 3: One of the problems like that, and we ran into
Speaker 3: the same problem in the King case once doing I
Speaker 3: were working on that. The bottom line is you can't
Speaker 3: I have a photo. Well, actually we do have fingerprints
Speaker 3: from the King assassination. That would be very critical. However,
Speaker 3: I can't gain access to that FBI system unless I'm
Speaker 3: in law enforcement and unless it's an open case. Literally,
Speaker 3: that's the I have to prove to access that database
Speaker 3: that I am officially in law enforcement investigating an open case,
Speaker 3: which at that point in time the King case was
Speaker 3: not with the open record that Closed Case Records Act.
Speaker 3: That may become a different story now that that is
Speaker 3: moving forward on the King case, but certainly it can't
Speaker 3: be done on the JFK case unless some law enforcement
Speaker 3: agency was willing to open this up again, take those
Speaker 3: fingerprints and go to the FBI privately. You can't do
Speaker 3: it as well, I will say, give an expanded answer,
Speaker 3: though it's not that that question was never asked. In
Speaker 3: the fall of nineteen sixty four, before issuing its report,
Speaker 3: the Warrant Commission and the staffers were very concerned about
Speaker 3: exactly that question. They went back to the FBI and
Speaker 3: basically said, what about all those other prints? Have you
Speaker 3: checked out those prints about every you know, everybody in
Speaker 3: the building, everybody you know? Can you even match them
Speaker 3: to somebody else in the building? Is it possible somebody
Speaker 3: else with involved with this? They expressed that the FBI
Speaker 3: went back to the Dallas Police and the response to
Speaker 3: the Dallas Police officially gave them was a that A
Speaker 3: none of the none of the other businesses in the building,
Speaker 3: the publishing companies, the book companies are open to doing that.
Speaker 3: They they're they're very unresponsive to doing that. They don't
Speaker 3: want to have their people fingerprinted. They don't want to
Speaker 3: do that, okay, But it doesn't matter because and Dallas
Speaker 3: Police said this, that building was open to the public
Speaker 3: all week and long. There were dozens and dozens of
Speaker 3: reporters and other people in that building, not not touching
Speaker 3: the right but touching the book you know, the bookcases, uh,
Speaker 3: that sort of thing, and so it would make it's
Speaker 3: it's useless. And and basically that was the response that
Speaker 3: was given to the Warrant Commission is you're wasting your time.
Speaker 3: Anybody could have left those prints, okay, and we have
Speaker 3: no way of contacting, you know, and the Warrant Commission
Speaker 3: let that stand. Obviously, one of the arguments is certainly
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty three, law enforcement did not have a
Speaker 3: fingerprint file on everybody, only those people, you know.
Speaker 2: No, that's one response. The other response is that look
Speaker 2: in the uh, you know, next sixty years. Okay, somebody
Speaker 2: could have encouraged someone in law enforcement to just do this, especially.
Speaker 3: With a greed.
Speaker 2: Try Well, that's the open question, right is you.
Speaker 3: Know we did and people got their hands slapped and
Speaker 3: people got well, so yeah, somebody may have better reluctance
Speaker 3: doing I did.
Speaker 2: I see. So what you're telling me is there are
Speaker 2: possibilities for people to encourage someone in the right position
Speaker 2: to maybe utilize the newer technology. But thus far, any
Speaker 2: attempts that you've been part of or privy to have
Speaker 2: been rebuffed quite fully where it seems like no one
Speaker 2: actually wants to do it or let it proceed. Does
Speaker 2: that appear to be the case?
Speaker 3: Literally take the risk of you know it is, they
Speaker 3: would be literally breaking the law.
Speaker 2: But someone might think that that's you know, not that
Speaker 2: I mean, how how bad a punishment it.
Speaker 3: Might be worth the risk? So I'm I can't you know,
Speaker 3: condone freaking law.
Speaker 2: Nobody's Look, nobody's here to do that so far that
Speaker 2: I know of right, nobody is condoning that. I never do.
Speaker 2: I always make those statements like, look, an act of
Speaker 2: violence is never going to be encouraged by me, et cetera.
Speaker 2: Depending on the issue, I might say, you know, I
Speaker 2: would never encourage somebody to risk their own freedom for
Speaker 2: any particular cause that they did not you know, you
Speaker 2: deem it necessary, you deem it a morally you know,
Speaker 2: significant thing, Then that is a decision that you need
Speaker 2: to make for yourself if you're in the position to
Speaker 2: do so. But I would never encourage it openly. But
Speaker 2: I would say that if someone sought to do this,
Speaker 2: they might find themselves in a position if they were
Speaker 2: able to resolve something by this action, of not being
Speaker 2: worthy of prosecution or not being prosecuted for solving something.
Speaker 2: Here I'm just saying, but again, legally the normal channels,
Speaker 2: et cetera, this has not been an option so far.
Speaker 2: Is that about it?
Speaker 3: I think it. I do think that it's interesting that
Speaker 3: even the Warrant Commission itself realized that it was an issue.
Speaker 3: You know, that's considering all the things that they didn't
Speaker 3: realize were issues. I think it was interesting that they
Speaker 3: at least tweaked to that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did the chat. I have a chatter saying
Speaker 2: no one checked that print. But if you do dot
Speaker 2: dot yeah, that's.
Speaker 3: Let us know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'd be more than happy to accept
Speaker 2: the you know, press release from said action, because that
Speaker 2: wouldn't make me liable for anything. For sure. If I
Speaker 2: simply accepted a press release from someone who was able
Speaker 2: to prove that the proper investigation was done here and
Speaker 2: it revealed so on and so forth hypothetically, and it
Speaker 2: does seem like something that other JFK researchers might have
Speaker 2: attempted to do, you know, because different people have done
Speaker 2: different things to try and investigate this fingerprint before, and
Speaker 2: they've come up with various results. So I'm just thinking
Speaker 2: this is one of those things, given the evolution in technology,
Speaker 2: one might think is not a particularly laborious task to
Speaker 2: undertake and would just require proper access and you know,
Speaker 2: and the ability to handle the thing. No, anyway, I
Speaker 2: leave it to the listener to think about that. Larry,
Speaker 2: not trying to put you in any position. And again,
Speaker 2: I would never endorse somebody breaking the law and putting
Speaker 2: their own liberty in jeopardy for any particular reason. That's
Speaker 2: not for me to encourage. Very simple.
Speaker 3: I do think that I do think I'm fascinated by
Speaker 3: the subject as well, But I I kind of do
Speaker 3: think that the problem would be and the fingerprint bas
Speaker 3: is bigger now, obviously far bigger than it ever was then.
Speaker 3: So your options, you know, your likelihood of coming up
Speaker 3: with someone would be far better now just because more
Speaker 3: prints have been collected over the subsequent decades. But it
Speaker 3: kind of it appalled me when I read the Dallas
Speaker 3: Police saying, well, it's a waste of time because we
Speaker 3: left the crime scene totally open and all these people
Speaker 3: marched all over the place and did whatever. So it's
Speaker 3: kind of like, did you guys, I think that was
Speaker 3: a bad idea? I guess they didn't have yellow tape
Speaker 3: back then.
Speaker 2: Well they did shut down the building for a little while, right,
Speaker 2: but well.
Speaker 3: They did, but not not overnight. My friend Ian Briggs,
Speaker 3: this passed interview people that worked in the publishing houses there,
Speaker 3: the book companies, and those guys said, well, you know,
Speaker 3: I was out of town. I came back and you know,
Speaker 3: Saturday night, Sunday, I went into my office. I went
Speaker 3: into the our regular door and nothing, nothing was locked,
Speaker 3: There was nobody around. I just wandered around.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But nonetheless, there might have been a point at
Speaker 2: which if they had done see that's the question did
Speaker 2: they do a full see? Because if the full collection
Speaker 2: was done, you know, say by Saturday, and you know,
Speaker 2: and they were done Saturday afternoon with that collection, and
Speaker 2: they let the building open at some point right after that,
Speaker 2: then one could say, look, we have a snapshot in
Speaker 2: time where there was Prince collected that could not have
Speaker 2: existed previously and would not be added to by all
Speaker 2: the additional traffic over the weekend.
Speaker 3: Right if they had done that. Of course, fellow that
Speaker 3: I interviewed and talked to personally, Tom Alyea, maintained strongly
Speaker 3: and offered some pretty interesting evidence to prove it that
Speaker 3: the Dallas crime scene photos of all those boxes were
Speaker 3: actually not taken on November twenty second. That studeb Baker's
Speaker 3: assistant was brand new, didn't know how to do anything.
Speaker 3: He moved all the boxes around, took his pictures, and
Speaker 3: they had to restage all those shots on Saturday. And
Speaker 3: I think that's a fascinating thing, because again, you want
Speaker 3: to drive yourself nuts. Just Alieya said that the boxes
Speaker 3: and the official crime scene photos are not stacked the
Speaker 3: way he saw them the afternoon of the twenty second.
Speaker 2: Right, And for the record, Alia is one of the
Speaker 2: guys who took a film and is responsible for the
Speaker 2: film inside the book depository at the time that the
Speaker 2: search was being conducted for the rifle for the shooter,
Speaker 2: et cetera. He's the guy who actually had to throw
Speaker 2: his film out of a window in order to get
Speaker 2: it to one of the television stations so they could
Speaker 2: broadcast a look inside of the school book depository and
Speaker 2: the search. That's the guy we're talking about here, Tom Elliet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was fascinating. Type to Tom at
Speaker 3: length many times. And Tom was a lone nut believer.
Speaker 3: He believed Oswald did it by himself.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: And Tom, we'd have this conversations kind of like, Tom,
Speaker 3: so you're telling me that all the crime scene photos
Speaker 3: and evidence are faked. You're telling me that they through
Speaker 3: the shell, the holes back on the floor and those
Speaker 3: aren't really the way they were after the shooting. Yet
Speaker 3: you believe everything else in the Dallas police evidence file. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And he would just look at me with this look
Speaker 3: like and I would go, well, I paid for lunch,
Speaker 3: so okay, you know, but I thought it was a
Speaker 3: a It's a wonderful thing to believe what you want
Speaker 3: to believe. Like Tom, you're telling me it's bogus, but
Speaker 3: you believe everything was right except that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, part of the basic evidence package is bs but
Speaker 2: they got it right anyway. That's interesting. Also what's interesting
Speaker 2: is what was it maybe two thousand and four. I'm
Speaker 2: thinking now I might have this off, but a book
Speaker 2: was released called First Day Evidence and are you familiar
Speaker 2: with it?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so should we could you give a basic
Speaker 2: description of what was in that book that goes along
Speaker 2: with this story just real past.
Speaker 3: Basically as a call it that the individual that published
Speaker 3: the book was the nephew of a Dallas police officer
Speaker 3: who had been in the photographic unit and had taken
Speaker 3: a lot of pictures of the prime scene evidence and
Speaker 3: had made copies for friends and scattered them around. But
Speaker 3: one of the essential points was that some of the
Speaker 3: pictures that he had taken of Prince were good enough
Speaker 3: and this nephew had come into possession of them that
Speaker 3: a forensics expert could take a look at them. And
Speaker 3: I think he said, you know, he was maintaining it
Speaker 3: was solid evidence of Oswald because there were eleven points
Speaker 3: of match, which is actually a pretty low number for
Speaker 3: court proof. But again, and this is interestingly enough, something
Speaker 3: we do cover in the book is the the the
Speaker 3: terrible handling of crime scene evidence by the Talis unit
Speaker 3: and particularly photographs. We talk about that a lot because
Speaker 3: it's very germane to the discussion of the well known
Speaker 3: backyard photo. So but yeah, First Day Evidence was Essentially,
Speaker 3: my uncle took pictures, took a lot of pictures, he
Speaker 3: saved a lot of them. I got them. And by
Speaker 3: the way, I can now prove that it was Oswald
Speaker 3: because of my uncle's pictures. Now, not that his uncle's
Speaker 3: pictures that would approve that apparently were used by the
Speaker 3: Warrant Commission or the Dallas Pleaze or anyway. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: that didn't happen as part of the official process, but
Speaker 3: now you're saying you can do it with pictures that
Speaker 3: he kept, and you inherited great well.
Speaker 2: And the other part of this was, you know, look,
Speaker 2: not only was it stored away for at that time
Speaker 2: thirty years plus, right, because taking a look at this,
Speaker 2: it was actually first published in ninety three, I was
Speaker 2: mixing it up. I was thinking two thousand and four.
Speaker 2: It was in my hands by nineteen ninety four. So
Speaker 2: my mistake there. But it kind of coincided with all
Speaker 2: of the excitement over the JFK film, first of all,
Speaker 2: and secondly, it appeared to me to be the most
Speaker 2: ardent defense of the idea that there was a print,
Speaker 2: because in the film, if you recall, there was this
Speaker 2: allegation sort of given to us that maybe Oswald had
Speaker 2: been printed in the morgue in order to place part
Speaker 2: of a pomp print on the rifle, the pomp print
Speaker 2: not being present when the FBI took all the evidence
Speaker 2: from Dallas, I believe what the night of the assassination.
Speaker 3: Right midnight.
Speaker 2: By midnight, they had already taken all this stuff. So
Speaker 2: they arrest Oswald in the early afternoon, and they're sending
Speaker 2: all the evidence to the FBI that they have, supposedly,
Speaker 2: and that means the guns, the uh, you know, the
Speaker 2: the shells, everything they're shipping to the FBI to be
Speaker 2: shipped back to them.
Speaker 3: E said, well, the one shell they decided to cleep
Speaker 3: it keeping his desk drawer. Yeah, for some reason.
Speaker 2: Desk drawer or file drawer or something like that. That's another story,
Speaker 2: but let's put that aside. The thing is that this
Speaker 2: was a defense of the idea that the pomp print
Speaker 2: had to have existed before Oswald was in the morgue,
Speaker 2: because his uncle, even though he didn't send it to
Speaker 2: them that night, had the good photograph. He had already
Speaker 2: lifted the pom print, right, so his lift was what
Speaker 2: they already had, but they didn't send that to the FBI.
Speaker 3: This would have been so much fun in court.
Speaker 2: Well, of course it would have. But I mean, do
Speaker 2: you do recall this part of it, right? Yes? Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: And this was the big controversy. And by the way,
Speaker 2: this book is kind of hard to get, or at
Speaker 2: least was for a time. Maybe it's a little easier
Speaker 2: to get. I don't think it had additional printings, but
Speaker 2: it might have. It might have. And the author was
Speaker 2: Gary Savage, just saying, but what was it called? Let's
Speaker 2: see the full title JFK First day Evidence stored away
Speaker 2: for thirty years in an old briefcase, no kidding. This
Speaker 2: is what it says. New evidence is now revealed by
Speaker 2: former Dallas Police crime Laboratory detect lab detective excuse me,
Speaker 2: r W. And then I guess the description continues.
Speaker 3: Rub subtitle is why you should trust the Dallas Police Force.
Speaker 2: It should be exactly right. Why should you trust it? Well,
Speaker 2: he just happened to have this lift and he did
Speaker 2: have the pomp print in his possession before Oswald could
Speaker 2: have ended up in the Morgan. You see what you
Speaker 2: see in JFK. There were a bunch of counter narrative
Speaker 2: books released at this time, just for the record for
Speaker 2: the audience. Okay, but just saying, let's see on the
Speaker 2: TV show Best about five years ago, they had a
Speaker 2: real film from the Dallas PD of all the evidence. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there was a film. There were a few things. There
Speaker 2: was a a reel of stuff that was on like
Speaker 2: a microfilm that was supposed to be all of Dallas's
Speaker 2: evidence that they tried to sell to that pawn Stars
Speaker 2: group of guys in Las Vegas. And apparently there was
Speaker 2: another film allegedly of all the evidence in Dallas that
Speaker 2: was a lot of that is online.
Speaker 3: We went through like forty four pages of photographs of
Speaker 3: evidence that materials taken from Lee Harvey Oswald. Yeah, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of it online now.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, a lot of stuff is available online. I
Speaker 2: mean you can see the one that cracked me up
Speaker 2: is the one that's got his flip flops and like
Speaker 2: everything that they collected, like the junken his pockets, you know,
Speaker 2: was pretty much revealed in these photographs that they staged.
Speaker 2: Kind of wild because again it doesn't look very organized
Speaker 2: for the crime lab guys.
Speaker 3: To it's not organized at all, you know, just saying
Speaker 3: there's bad as Oswald, It's like, man at least you
Speaker 3: guys captured is true. It's to nature here because it's
Speaker 3: all intermixed. Pictures from Russia are side by side with
Speaker 3: you know, private possessions. It's all intermixed.
Speaker 2: It's a whole big like just you know, grab bag
Speaker 2: of stuff that it looks like they kind of dumped
Speaker 2: out and spread out a little bit, like here's how
Speaker 2: world separated a little bit. But I mean, even the
Speaker 2: flip flops are not like they're not placed in a
Speaker 2: place that makes sense. It isn't even meant to be
Speaker 2: aesthetically balanced or anything. It's just here's the stuff from
Speaker 2: this bag. Okay, next bag, here's the stuff from that right.
Speaker 2: And it was like, wow, I can't believe that this
Speaker 2: stuff was collected like this people. But meanwhile, you're supposed
Speaker 2: to take it very seriously that his uncle had this lift,
Speaker 2: which I don't know if anybody can prove when it
Speaker 2: was actually taken, if anything's dated properly. I don't remember
Speaker 2: all that, but I do remember looking at it saying,
Speaker 2: this is the best they can do to defend this,
Speaker 2: you know, this side. Because people were shook up about
Speaker 2: the idea that Oswald may have been printed post mortem,
Speaker 2: you know. Okay, anyway, Larry, look, we've run a little
Speaker 2: extra time more than I wanted to, but I'm sure
Speaker 2: you could give us a very concise sort of statement
Speaker 2: about Listen, Larry, I've bought and I've read lots of
Speaker 2: Oswald stuff, and you know what a lot of it
Speaker 2: is repetitious. We've already been over how photographs are different.
Speaker 2: This is laid out in a different way. The narrative
Speaker 2: is fresh. We've already told them that. But give me
Speaker 2: one more little push. What is the reason why if
Speaker 2: I've got a collection of books on Lee Harvey Oswald,
Speaker 2: besides the arts and Crafts project I presented earlier, what
Speaker 2: is the reason why, Larry, and I hate to do
Speaker 2: this to you, I need to buy this book by
Speaker 2: Larry Hancock and David Boylin because I got to add
Speaker 2: to my collection four references, because I'm seriously Oswald Puzzle, okay,
Speaker 2: which is just how it's named on Amazon. Oswald Puzzle
Speaker 2: Hardcover says to be released January fourteen, but you can
Speaker 2: pre order it now by Larry Joe Hancock. I like
Speaker 2: how they give you the three names here, Larry Joe Hancock. Okay,
Speaker 2: some people make a big deal out of this. This
Speaker 2: guy they always name him by three names when they're
Speaker 2: this or that. No, they just it's your you know,
Speaker 2: but you're Larry Joe Hancock here Larry David boy Lin's
Speaker 2: just David boy Ln. But anyway, the two authors on
Speaker 2: oswald Puzzle, which has this black and white photo of
Speaker 2: Oswald with this ghostly overlay of other photos of interest
Speaker 2: that devly suggests to me the first half of the
Speaker 2: book for sure, as far as the you know, biographical
Speaker 2: presentation that could be had from the supposed first section
Speaker 2: of that narrative that we've already read from. So give
Speaker 2: us the reason, Larry, why is it I need to
Speaker 2: add this book to my collection? How does it round
Speaker 2: it out? What does it do well?
Speaker 3: I think there are really three parts to it, Chuck.
Speaker 3: The first is it tackles three standing questions that I've
Speaker 3: always had, I think most everybody has always had. Basically,
Speaker 3: what was Oswald? What was this belief system? What what
Speaker 3: was he left? Was he right? Was the tool? Was
Speaker 3: the independent? We come down with answers to all those questions.
Speaker 3: You can like them, you cannot like them, But we
Speaker 3: come down with a very I think well supportive view
Speaker 3: of who he really was and what was this person agenda? Okay, no,
Speaker 3: no ifs answer, buts we take a very definitive position.
Speaker 3: The second is there there have been a very fundamental
Speaker 3: set of series of questions of was Oswell acting for someone?
Speaker 3: Was he an asset? Was he you know? What is
Speaker 3: really going on with him? We get very definitive about that.
Speaker 3: Was he FBI? Was he c I A Was he?
Speaker 3: You know? And you read off the chapter of Oswell's entanglement.
Speaker 3: We used entanglement for a very specific reason and and
Speaker 3: bring that out in the book, how Osweald became entangled
Speaker 3: with a lot of things that made him look a
Speaker 3: particular way when he may not have been, you know.
Speaker 3: So we we tackle those questions head on in terms
Speaker 3: of Oswell and the CIA, the FBI. We tackled the
Speaker 3: hard issue is like the Walker incident, the backyard photo,
Speaker 3: Mexico City, Russia. We tackle those and we give answers
Speaker 3: which we think are well defensible and balanced. So that's
Speaker 3: the second thing is a lot of that has been
Speaker 3: kind of discussed the speculative fashion. We're going to take
Speaker 3: a we take a firm position on those things in
Speaker 3: the book. But the third thing is is the big
Speaker 3: question of what was what was Oswald really thinking and
Speaker 3: what was Oswell doing on November twenty second. There have
Speaker 3: been many things that have been offered for that, things
Speaker 3: like was he a participant? Was he unwitting participant? Was
Speaker 3: there a false flag operation going on? Was he totally framed?
Speaker 3: And if he was totally framed and totally clueless, how
Speaker 3: do you explain some of his rather strange behavior on
Speaker 3: November twenty seven second And the second half of the
Speaker 3: book is an explanation for what we feel he really
Speaker 3: was thinking on that day and how it came about
Speaker 3: over the ninety two one hundred and twenty days period
Speaker 3: in advance of that day in Dallas. So I think
Speaker 3: the bottom line is you're going to see things in
Speaker 3: the book that solid positions that have been discussed, and
Speaker 3: they're going to be supported with information, some of it
Speaker 3: simply organized in a more structured fashion. Some of it
Speaker 3: brand new, And I have You've been good. You haven't
Speaker 3: asked me what is brand new in the book, which
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say, because you know I might my publisher
Speaker 3: would go.
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
Speaker 3: There is brand new data in the book, some of
Speaker 3: it discovered when we were working the photo section, which
Speaker 3: is going to be rather fast because it was there
Speaker 3: in front of us all the time. It's there in
Speaker 3: the Warren Commission report, It's there in the photos, and
Speaker 3: we never saw it. I never saw it. So there
Speaker 3: is new content in the book as well that I
Speaker 3: can guarantee. Whether people like it or not, that's another story.
Speaker 3: But it is new. So those are multiple reasons it is.
Speaker 3: It is one thing that it will offer we tried
Speaker 3: to be It has four hundred and thirty six in notes.
Speaker 3: The majority of those are linked to source material and
Speaker 3: in some cases to contrarian source material. So you can
Speaker 3: go take this book, see what we think, see what
Speaker 3: our assessment is, and then go look at what the
Speaker 3: other people say. So actually, it would be a very
Speaker 3: good starter book for someone that's relatively new to this
Speaker 3: and doesn't want to totally believe anybody, And that would
Speaker 3: be our answer is, hey, go look look at the
Speaker 3: other viewpoints and you make the choice.
Speaker 2: And on the other hand, it would be excellent for
Speaker 2: someone who has gotten fully entrenched in some of the
Speaker 2: things of the past, whether they are on the conspiracy
Speaker 2: advocacy side or they are on the lone nut belief side.
Speaker 2: Either way, you can gain a new insight here and
Speaker 2: get new information, and nobody's necessarily looking to support a
Speaker 2: particular agenda. Apparently, let's take an objective view with some
Speaker 2: context here, whether it's in the photographic section or point
Speaker 2: by point through the entire one piece narrative of the
Speaker 2: Oswald Puzzle. Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Our goal was to be objective with it, and
Speaker 3: it's not. I think long time conspiracy folks will find
Speaker 3: it interesting in some aspects annoying because it does deal
Speaker 3: with some sacred cows we have. We wrote it to
Speaker 3: be more of a book for the general public that
Speaker 3: if you've never you've never really waded into this and
Speaker 3: always wondered if the Warrant Commission told you the real
Speaker 3: story you need to read this, And no they didn't.
Speaker 2: But as per usual, Larry, you know, no matter what
Speaker 2: your intent was as an author, things do have a
Speaker 2: life of their own when once you release them. So
Speaker 2: I would say this thing is definitely going to have
Speaker 2: a life, and I'm wondering how pleasant or miserable it
Speaker 2: might be, not for it in and of itself, but
Speaker 2: for the reader. Depending on your preconceived notions, you could
Speaker 2: have a hard time with this thing. You could have
Speaker 2: an easy time with this thing, but one way or another,
Speaker 2: it's going to be a unique experience. So we'll leave
Speaker 2: it at that. Larry Hancock was my guest for more
Speaker 2: than an hour, let's say, nearly an hour and a
Speaker 2: half hour and twenty plus on the o'ceelly effect. I
Speaker 2: urge you to go to Larrydashhancock dot com and keep
Speaker 2: up with his work, not just his books, which you
Speaker 2: can find references and portals too. I, by the way,
Speaker 2: recommend all of them. Matter of fact, one of the
Speaker 2: very very few times that I have appeared on Amazon,
Speaker 2: I have a little book blurb if you will, on
Speaker 2: one of Larry's books on Amazon. Why because I highly
Speaker 2: recommend not only that book which I wrote something for
Speaker 2: which I was asked to do, but you know what,
Speaker 2: I recommend all of it, regardless of what you see
Speaker 2: written anywhere at any time. So Larryhancock, larrysh Hancock dot com,
Speaker 2: that's the place to go. Follow his work.
Speaker 7: And revelation through conversation in denial.
Speaker 6: Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks by Larry Hancock.
Speaker 6: Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations and
Speaker 6: are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips
Speaker 6: the cover off many of them, using new files.
Speaker 8: It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no
Speaker 8: one has ever written about before. It shows why it
Speaker 8: really failed and why the United States did not earn
Speaker 8: from it. It also shows why other countries today are
Speaker 8: doing secret operations with more success. This is the book
Speaker 8: that puts what some want to deny into the light.
Speaker 8: In Denial, secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larry Hancock.
Speaker 8: For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com.
Speaker 8: Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot
Speaker 8: com in digital or physical.
Speaker 2: Yo Yo.
Speaker 9: This Doug Campbell, host of the Dallas Action podcast presented
Speaker 9: by Wall Street Window, and you are listening to the
Speaker 9: o'chilly effect revelation through conversation.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Colin, I'm about the Dayfay assassination right, Well,
Speaker 2: what do you want to know.
Speaker 1: Any Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends he knew Ruby and
Speaker 1: Barry handswer weapons.
Speaker 2: Really I imagine I could claim I have four wheels.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, on the.
Speaker 7: Building and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy
Speaker 7: Come on now has.
Speaker 3: A real effort on the day of Heay assassination into claim.
Speaker 2: Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her
Speaker 2: own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy
Speaker 2: of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words
Speaker 2: and the known evidence in the case to get at
Speaker 2: well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith
Speaker 2: Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself
Speaker 2: signed if you request it by contracting doctor Brown at
Speaker 2: k I as jfk at aol dot com. It's a
Speaker 2: fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic
Speaker 2: claims Judith varied Baker in her own.
Speaker 6: Words, thank you for the great information the VI's.
Speaker 2: Expressed by caller schools or anyone else who happens to
Speaker 2: get on the air who Jelly dot comf you not
Speaker 2: necessarily reflect deviews of jelly dot com or joo chilly,
Speaker 2: and we are not responsible. We're getting stupidity which might.
Speaker 3: Instudent than you.
Speaker 7: Revelation through Conversation.
Speaker 10: The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national
Speaker 10: transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in
Speaker 10: the context of the Times and reveals never before published
Speaker 10: information about the Cuban missile Christ. President Kennedy would not
Speaker 10: have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred
Speaker 10: years ago. His assassination took place in the context of
Speaker 10: the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.
Speaker 5: Before World War.
Speaker 10: II, the United States was a continental republic. In the
Speaker 10: decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such
Speaker 10: as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba, but
Speaker 10: knew that there were short range missiles on the island
Speaker 10: aren't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because
Speaker 10: they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have led
Speaker 10: to a Third World War, and they wanted to go
Speaker 10: to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals
Speaker 10: why and will show you what President Kennedy was up against.
Speaker 10: For more information, the Warstate dot com.
Speaker 3: This is James Corbin at Coorter Report dot com and you're.
Speaker 1: Listening to the Ocelly Affected o'celly dot com in Denial.
Speaker 6: The Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock.
Speaker 6: Secret Wars became a staple of US covert operations and
Speaker 6: are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the
Speaker 6: cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes
Speaker 6: things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has
Speaker 6: ever written about before. It shows why it really failed
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Speaker 6: operations with more success. This is the book that puts
Speaker 6: what some want to deny into the light. In Denial,
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Speaker 6: go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your
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Speaker 1: Mike Swansonellowe dot com, Radio network, Bohellowe dot com, radio network.
Speaker 5: Ohchilly dot com
Speaker 9: Yo Yova's Doug Camp, host of the Dallas Action podcast
Speaker 9: presented by Wall Street Window, And you are listening to
Speaker 9: the o'chill effect revelation through conversation,