Speaker 1: In the Book of Genesis, God told Rebecca of Prophecy
that she would have not just twins, but two nations
in her womb, and one of those twins was Esau,
one of the most mysterious figures in the Bible. What
was the what is the mystery behind his origin? Why
was he Harry read? Does he have a connection to Bigfoot,
to the nepheline? And why did God be Why did
God feel so strongly about this man in scripture that
he said Jacob I loved Eso, I hated. We were
going to unravel the mysteries of Esou and even looked
to be a profitbal text to find out if he
had supernatural power. All tonight with our special guest Justin
Brown on Thursday Night Theology, which starts right now.
Speaker 2: The disclaimer to the fair season Karen's out There, Oh
Dare You? All guests only show do not reflect the
opinions of the host. The purpose of the show is
to have interesting conversations, stretch.
Speaker 3: Your minds and grow, not what we want.
Speaker 2: If you are looking for an echo chamber, hey, listen
your discretion.
Speaker 4: He's advised.
Speaker 1: Did you talk about extreme?
Speaker 3: What is happening and what is up. Hold out your glass,
because we're about to feel.
Speaker 5: The join us as we travel and explore the vast unknown.
It's a hero's journey with dragons to slay, damsels to save,
and innumerable treasures to hoard torches high. You know, look
at it from a different perspective, different perspective.
Speaker 1: Yes, we are back. Hello and greetings, and happy Thursday
to all of you. I'm your host, Ryan Peterson. Welcome
to Thursday Night Theology, the live show that is about you.
Of course, it's about your questions about the Bible. Whatever
it is in scripture, in prophecy, or in the Book
of Genesis, if it's mysterious, if it's complex, if it's
something the Church might not touch, we want to talk
about it right here on Thursday Night Theology. And this
is a perfect topic for tonight from what I'm saying
for this intro, because we're talking about a figure that
there's a lot of questions about Esau in scripture. And
not only are we going to get into these questions,
We're going to have a special guest who is just
completed the manuscript of a forthcoming book about Esau and
the mysterious kind of supernatural history. In his life, both
in scripture and in the apocrytal text and in Hebrew
ancient Hebrew history. So we're going to get into all
of that in a moment, and of course we will
also have live Q and A and for those who
are new Thursday the Theologies, where I answer your questions,
the questions I receive on social media, in DMS, in email,
on my website. I take two to three questions and
try to apply my research to answer them.
Speaker 4: We also do live Q and A after each question.
Speaker 1: But tonight we have a very special show, so we're
gonna change up a little bit, but we still will
do live Q and A. So if you have questions
on any topic regarding the power normal, the supernatural, the Bible, prophecy,
anything like that, be sure to put in the chat
because we will we will answer some of them during
the live Q and A sessions sections of the show tonight.
So yes, so that is the uh the order of business.
And for those who don't know, I am, of course
Ryan Peterson, author of Judgment of the Nathelene and the
Final Nethilene. More details on that later. But now, as
I said, we're gonna get into this topic of es
and I'm very excited to introduce our guest tonight. You know,
we're in first of all, for those for those who
are regular watches, you know, I'm back for my birthday,
to my little birthday hiatus vacation. I was out in Boulder,
Colorado watching some football. I was watching with my brother,
my uh and my sons watching some uh, some good
college football kickoff in Boulder, Colorado with a coach Prime
and the Buffs who you know, Coach Promise is.
Speaker 4: You know what I love about him is that every
locker room speech is like a sermon. So it was exciting.
Was a great time.
Speaker 1: And then the ladies came and joined as my wife
and daughter came out. We had a great time hiking
enjoying beautiful weather and amazing food up in Boulder.
Speaker 4: But I'm back.
Speaker 1: I'm back, refreshed and ready to roll and answer some
questions for you. So as we think about football season
and everything kicking off becau. I'm a huge football fan.
I love college football, I love the NFL. And even
though my Jets lost last week, you know you told
you there's always excitement about the up and coming players.
You know, Oh, we have Molik neighbors and the giants,
these exciting rookies, the quarterbacks and all these new players.
There's always that excitement to see what are they gonna do,
what are they gonna bring to the table. So why
am I mentioning that because our next guest, I think
in the months and in the year to come, you're
gonna hear his name a lot more. He's already off
to a great start. But I think with his upcoming book,
I have a feeling he's on the rise as a
player to watch in.
Speaker 4: This fear of biblical authors.
Speaker 1: So he is the host of the Big Bible podcast
as well as the Prometheus Lens podcast, and as I
mentioned before, he is the author of the forthcoming book,
The Epic of Esau. So, without further ado, I like
to introduce again our player on the Riots, mister Justin Brown,
to the stage.
Speaker 3: Hey, Ryan, thank you for having me. Thank you for
the kind words.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 3: I'll try my best to live up to that, but
I will fall short. Brother.
Speaker 4: It's all good, It's all good.
Speaker 1: No, thank you for coming on, Thank you for making
time to come on and spend some time live for
the Thursday Night Theology family. I believe you're making your
first live show appearance right now.
Speaker 3: Right, Oh yeah, I got the pre game or first
game butterflies. As we see, I'm a pre record guy.
Speaker 1: It's all good, No pressure, no pressure. This is a wonderful,
loving family here. And by the way, I should also
mentioned this is a great time of fellowship. So if
you're new here, if you're older for season one, if
you're season two, say hello to each other.
Speaker 4: Share where you're from, share your own ideas, your own questions.
Speaker 1: It's a great time to let iron shop and iron
and get into God's work and just grow and learn
our knowledge of our savior. Soak so Justin, so as
we get started, you know, before we even get to
the book, why don't you just tell us a little
bit about you and also really talk about you know,
the Big Bible podcast in Prometheus Lens.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, my name is Justin Brown. I'm just regular
nine to five Joe like everybody else. Man. I'm from
the hills of East Tennessee. And you know, I work,
I come home, I sleep, I pay my bills and
taxes and rents and repeat that. I grew up in
the church since I was a little kid, and I
always had a fascination with history and with the Bible.
And it was probably around twenty twelve I first discovered
Trace Smith from God to Nutshell and he was talking
about the Nephelom giants and fallen angels breeding with the
daughters of men and making these hybrid creatures. And I
was like, this dude's a heretic.
Speaker 4: I've heard my whole life.
Speaker 3: I know the scriptures that's not in there. And then
after I got to digging in and searching, I was like,
oh my gosh, this was like a diamond in the
rough that was just right there. And I just looked
over it and relied on my pastors and stuff to
talk about these things, and they just didn't and it did.
It just lit a fire under me, and I got
introduced to people like you and Derreck Gilbert, Mike Kiser,
and I just started reading and just diving into these
subjects and still under this day, I can't stop. I'm
addicted just the thrill of the hunt and finding these
gold nuggets in God's word in history. And like I said,
it went on since twenty twelve, and it was around
twenty twenty two I was like, you know what, I
want to have some conversations with some people and try
to learn some more and just you know, expose some
people in my area to this type of you know,
supernatural world view to the Bible. And I reached out
to probably fifteen or twenty guys that were in my
friend group or in my church group, and we had
three guys show up and I talked about the Three
Rebellions with Mike Haser's Unseen Realm. And after three meetings,
my buddy Steve was like, justin we're talking about some
pretty profound stuff. We should be recording this and do
like a podcast. And I had honestly just discovered podcasting
like at this time, and it was just beginning to
listen to Mike Kaiser's Naked Bible. Sure, and I had
no clue about any of this stuff, and I laughed.
I was like, no, I ain't doing that. I ain't
gonna be the full uh huh and uh. He stayed
only pretty good. And that that was at the birth
of the Dig Bible podcast. And we've done that and
we're still doing that. But about year and a half in,
I was like, man, I need more. So I started
the second show and where the Dig we just mainly
you know, stick to the scripture. With the Prometheus lens,
I go into ancient history, lost civilizations, conspiracy theories, bigfoot, uh,
just that whole gambit of stuff, but filter it through
a biblical lens, and it's all connected.
Speaker 4: Amen.
Speaker 1: And it's amazing too. How you know, being a fellow
nine to five Joe, how God just you don't expect
to even be doing these things. But God has his
own plans for us. So you know, you know, props
to you for listening and obeying the Lord.
Speaker 4: That's the important thing, right, So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you just step out in obedience and
say yes, uh, He'll take care of the rest. It's
like I hear people all the time that's been in
podcasting for eight ten years and not had the guests
that we've had, and not had the numbers that we've had,
and they come to me and they are like, hey,
what do you what's your secret? What do you do?
Then I'm like, I asked them.
Speaker 4: They say, yes, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: God man, But it's awesome. The Prometheus lens. It's it's
one well it's not even a year yet, it'll be
a year in the middle of October, and I just
hit one hundred thousand downloads with that with the show,
Wow it go God, Man, It's all God, That's all God.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, and I'll say this too, that
for me, after you reach out to me the first time,
my backstory of connecting with you and why I'm so
happy to have you on here is because I really
love the fact that you and Steve were so you
were newer in podcasting, but you know, and the whole
theme of dig it was so much care for God's word, right,
you know, we love this stuff.
Speaker 4: Everything we're talking about tonight is supernatural. We love it.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the fact that
you guys are so dedicated to really searching the scriptures
and and it was those types of injuries are just
so much more fun for me because that's my that's
my If we're just getting deep into scripture, it's just
you know, it's no different than me and you sitting
down at restaurant talking about football. So so I really
I have a tremendous amount of respect for the approach
you have in that show and of course beneath these
lines as well. So that's awesome. But we're here tonight
to talk about the Epic of Esa, which by the way,
is a very great, excellent name, by the way, to
add some more literation to that. Uh so, why don't
you We're gonna obviously jump into it, but why don't
you just give us, let us know like where you
are in the process in terms of publishing, writing, drafting,
and then just give the high level overview of the
book kind of your thesis, and then we're gonna really
get deep into the text.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is my first book also, you know,
once again completely ignorant and just said yes and went
out and started doing it. But I have now finished
the book and going through and just making adjustments and edit's,
looking for spell checks and that sort of thing. But
I actually had two publishers reach out to me, and
both of them didn't, you know, make a commitment, you know,
to me, but they just said that they saw me
talk about it on some podcasts and they were interested
and wanted to see the manuscript. So I've been getting
it out to those individuals and they're looking at it.
So if everything goes good, hopefully I'll have all that
took care of, because like I said, I I don't
know what I'm doing with that stuff, but you know,
one way or the other, I almost get it out.
So just figuring it out and navigating the waters. But
the book itself was honestly and it's funny how everything
comes full circle.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: Come out With Trey Smith. We had him on the
dig Bible podcast and he made an offshoot comment. He's like, yeah,
you guys live in East Tennessee. That's bigfoot country. Maybe
I should come down and we'll go bigfoot hunting. And
I knew of bigfoot. I thought it was cool, but
I'd never really like deep dived on it. I never
watched the Patterson Gimlin films and never really listened to
the podcasts on it and stuff. I just knew the
general overview, and it was just like out of nowhere.
It was like a lightning bolt just hit me in
the head and was like Genesis twenty five, twenty five
he saw, you know, for those that's unfamiliar, it's you know,
it says that he come out he had covered in
hair from head to toe like a Harry Cloak. And
I was like, man, that sounds pretty squatchy to me.
I brought that up and we kind of had a
little laugh about it and just as things progressed. It's
like God just kept slapping me upside the head with
these things. And it was I had Gary Wayne on.
We were talking about the epic of Gilgamesh and we
got to Inky Do and I'm like, dude, that sounds
a lot like Esau. And then I had another guest
on and we were going through the Book of Jasher
and then I come to him and Nimrod interfacing and
I'm like, gosh. And then I discovered these garments that
were interlace, and then I did. I started finding all
these little pieces and I'm like, dude, this is an
awesome story. But it's like spread across through the Book
of Jasher, the Targums, the Bible and Jewish you know,
lore and history. I was like, if I could just
take all these little pieces and throw them together, I
have a really epic story here that I think needs
to be told. And honestly it was. I had talked
to Bo Kennedy from The Bump podcast about doing a
show on it, and I would love to take credit
for the name, but that was actually Bo and he
was like, what do you want to call the show?
And I said, man, I don't know. Let me think
on it. He's like, I think you should call it
the Epic of Esau Nice And I was like, dude,
that's awesome. Yeah, run with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great name. It's a great name. It's
a great name. And you already got into the introduction
that Genesis twenty five, twenty five, and so this so
the the blessing I get when I have a co
host is I can get now I can ask my questions,
so things I want to talk about it, I want
to know and and this is something like I love
this because he saw you know. It's one of those
stories where very similar to Genesis six, you don't really
get the full picture in one passage, right because, like
you said, it sprinkled throughout the Bible and even in
other texts and so, but there are some very glaring
details that you have to wonder something, you have to
know something greater is at play here, right and even
in gleaning is in Genesis by Arthur Pink on my
Favorite Books of all Time on the Bible.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what Pink says.
Speaker 1: There's clearly something, there's something more supernatural at play. When
you get the introduction of Jacob and Esau so I
just want to actually go there and go to you know,
put the verses up and have you just kind of
like just get your thoughts on what you think here.
Speaker 4: And so let's just.
Speaker 1: Go to the scriptures here and here we are in
Genesis twenty five, and I'll read it and I'll just
throw it to you and start in verse twenty one.
And Isaac entreated the Lord for his wife. And of
course this is speaking of Rebecca, because she was barren,
and the Lord was entreated of him, and Rebecca, his wife,
and the children struggled together within her, and of course
this is Jacob and Esau. And she said, if it
be so, why am i thus? Why is this happening?
And she went to inquire of the Lord, and the
Lord said, unto her, two nations are in thy womb,
and two manner of people shall shall be separated by
from thy bowels, and the one people shall be stronger
than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger.
And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold
there were twins in her womb. And the first came
out red all over like a hairy garment. And they
called his name Esau. And after that came his brother out,
and his hand took hold on Esau's heel, and his
name was called Jacob, and Isaac was threescore years old
when she bare them. And of course that's verses twenty
one to twenty six in Genesis chapter twenty five. So
just in that those five verses, there's so much at play.
One we have a supernatural birth and then.
Speaker 4: A prophecy given.
Speaker 1: And I'm just gonna start with the two nations in
my woman, two manner of people, because that's one of
those passages in scripture. Again, that's a very peculiar, strange statement, right,
And you know there's no other woman who was told
in scripture you're going to have two nations and two
manner of people in your womb in these two twins.
And so let's just take it from there. What are
your thoughts, you know, in terms of your research about
what was going on with Rebecca to lead God to
make this proclamation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with me when I read that, and it's honestly
because of people like yourself and people like Mike Kiser
and the influences that it's had and how I think
and how I digest you know, the word of God.
Now I'll never forget. When I read the book Unseen Realm,
he was like, you have to remove all of your
modern filters and see it as the ancient people would
have seen it, because it's written to a peculiar people.
So with that lens, when I read that, it was
like number one boom, Like you said, two nations are
in the womb, two peoples. And the first thing that
come to my mind in the words of La Marzouli,
everything hinges on Genesis three point fifteen, and it plainly
says in that the first prophecy. Given that's written anyway,
you know, I will put enmity between her seed and
thy seed, talking about bruising the heel and crushing the head.
And then you have another red flag is because it
says the younger will rule over the older one. The
context of the ancient Israelite that is completely backwards, because
it's the oldest that has the birth right, it's the
younger that serves the older. So this was anybody reading
that during this time that would immediately through a bunch
of red flags and was like, no, this this ain't right.
You know, something's weird here, and we would draw their attention,
and that was my first instinct when I read that story.
And and then with my modern view, it's, you know,
you have the red and the red hair. Immediately I
think of the red haired six fingered giants, and even
the birth when when he's born he's holding the hill
of his brother. But it's actually a reverse from the prophecy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, going back to I find the uh,
the fact again these details won't obviously the red, but
also he's you know, this is a newborn infant that
the Bible's telling us is it seems to be very
extraordinarily hairy, right, and so so again these these strange details,
and I think I think that's an interesting I think
you're you know, I think it's an interesting thesis that
you're putting out there that's there's something to me clearly
different about.
Speaker 4: Esau in his nature.
Speaker 1: That I think the Bible is trying to highlight something
about him that's very peculiar.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so I think you're onto something so.
Speaker 1: As now there now and then even then, as you
mentioned La Morzouli and Genesis through fifteen, even the heel right,
because it's jacob Is is holding on to the heel
and even that is like shades Genesis three fifteen, right
that you know, the bruising of the heel and all
those things, the crushing of the head, the bruising of
the heel. So so yeah, so so take us a
little further. You know, I know you gave a little
you gave a little uh hints before about as easily
gets older and the garments and uh, you know, let's
talk about that because I find that quite fascinating.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now with the garments, well, I thought fascinating. Now do
you want me to go to the the first mentioned
in the garden or with with Esau.
Speaker 4: Wherever you want to go you can start it.
Speaker 3: Well, I'd like to go back to Genesis three fifteen,
just for those because that's it's so important and absolutely
for those that don't know need to know.
Speaker 1: You can never read too much scripture on Thursday theology.
So let's go.
Speaker 3: So I had mentioned, you know that that prophecy and
how I said it's a reversal. Well, you know, for
those that are not familiar, you know, Mikeyser once again, Uh,
the word nakash you know, can mean serpent and Hebrew,
but can I also mean the shining one, the one
who practices divination. So context is key, you know, it's
what makes more sense in that situation. A talking snake,
you know, snakes don't talk. When the snake talked to her,
or the nakash talked to her, she wasn't afraid, she
wasn't startled, she didn't act afraid. So she obviously knew
this thing. She trusted this thing, and she was familiar
with this thing. So to me, a divine being on
the holy Mountain of God that she trusted and seen
every day makes more sense to me. But then when
you get the cursing, you know, that's when you get
that verse about I will put enmity between her seed
and thy seed. So it's saying outright that she has
a seed and that Satan has a seed. And I
know a lot of people when you say that or
bring up that, their alarms go off because a lot
of people's minds go straight to the extreme. And there
has been people that has you know, talked about there
was a physical sexual union between Eve and the serpents
and even used it to push and propagate you know,
racist you know ideology and things like that. That's not
where I'm going with this, whether it was physical, whether
it was spiritual, either way. I mean, the scripture says
they had seeds and there was gonna be entity between
them and the bruising of the hill and the crushing
of the head. And like you had mentioned, there's something
that the writers are trying to show us that there's
something very drastically different about this man and his brother.
So to me, and this is just conjecture on my part,
but it's like if he was a serpent seed, whether
actual or uh, what's the word I'm looking for, spiritual?
Either way, it's like Satan stepped in and reverse tried
to manipulate that prophecy. He's like, Okay, well I'll put
my seed, uh and flip him around where his head
is pushing on Jacob the chosen seed, and Jacob will
be squeezing and trying to bruise the heel of my seed.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's you know, and that's interesting too,
because again I like that you said that it could
be physical or spiritual, because that's really I do connect
Esau to the Neffli, but in a whole different way
in my research. But we'll get to that later when
we talk about him as a as an adult. But
I think that if you look at if you look
at Kane, right, keenan Abel. Again, we have these two brothers,
and of course we see that in the New Testaments,
is that Kane was all the wicked one?
Speaker 4: Right? I don't.
Speaker 1: Of course, I don't believe that he was a literal
seed of Satan. He was that he was the first
born son of Adam and Eve, And so I think
spiritually Esau could have fallen for me, definitely into that
same type of whether you want to call it possession, allegiance, apostasy,
to where he could be considered like kay, I mean,
the Bible says he was of the devil king that
he was, but again, is it is it genetic? I
don't believe so, but I think spiritually that that that's
what was taking place.
Speaker 4: And so but let's let's get into uh oh yeah.
Speaker 1: But before I go back to Genesis to chapter twenty five,
I want to did you want to talk about the
garments here or do you want to just go back
to the well.
Speaker 3: I was going to insert that in here too, because
then you have the garments that those most people talk about,
the skins and a lot of people, you know, say
that that was a lamb and that was the first
sacrifice in the covering of their nakedness and stuff like that.
I mean that that's a doctrine of man, you know.
I mean, that's something that we've come up with that
that sounds legit, and but it's not what's in the scripture.
You know, it does make sense, and I believed it
for a long time, but that's not exactly what the
scripture says. But when you go into there, it says,
and this is Genesis three and verse twenty, it says, Uh,
the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was
the mother of all living and the Lord God made
for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and
clothed them. Well, that word uh, garments and he clothed
them is for closes in Hebrew is he'll bish, so
he he'll bishes adam nakedness with a tunic in Hebrew,
which was Kannonit so that this phrase is most frequently
used in the tor to describe the clothing of the
priests of the Tabernacle, and some examples of that is
Exodus chapter twenty nine, Verse eight, Exodus chapter twenty eight,
verse thirty nine through forty. But what's important with that
is in describing of those garments and placing him on
the priests, it shows that and it even says it outright,
it was used to cover their nakedness exactly. So once
again this law first mentioned, it's drawing you back and
showing you that Adam was the first priest and king
of all creation. And when you go into you know,
the the Jewish thought of the rabbis, all of them
trace three IgE back to Adam. So I mean, this
was a commonly known and commonly accepted thing. But when
you get to Ezekiel twenty eight, and for those that
are not familiar with that, that's it's a condemnation against
the King of Tire. But halfway through there it changes
and he's no longer talking about a physical being. He's,
you know, it's he's talking about the spirit pulling the
strings behind this king, in which I'm of the belief
and a lot of people are also that this was
Satan who he was talking to. And just for those unfamiliar,
I'd like to go through just some of the verses
in there to show you why I think that In
twenty eight, starting In thirteen, it says you were in Eden,
the garden of God. Now I remember he's talking to
the King of Tire. The King of Tyre was not
in Eden. So once you know, that's a red flag
right there. He's no longer talking to this man. But
he says, every precious stone was your covering, sorry as topad, diamond,
baryl onyx, jasper, sapphire, emerald, carbuncle, and crafted in gold,
was your settings and in your gravings. And on the
day that you were created, they were prepared for you.
And it says that you were an anointed guardian cherup
and that you walked amongst the stones of fire. And
then you go on to sixteen, it says, so I
cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God.
All this is pointing straight to Satan, in my opinion.
And when you go to eighteen, it even says you
profaned your sanctuaries. So here is this entity that's described perfect,
beautiful in all their ways, perfectly describes the ephod that
the priest wears. It says that he has a sanctuary,
that he profaned it, and that he was cast from
the mountain of God. I mean all all signs point
to Satan. So and once again this would line up
to the description of his name, Nakash, the Shining One.
If he was wearing this breastplate with all these multiple colors,
stones and shining gold, and he would definitely be the
shining One.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'm of the belief that the coverings given
to Adam and Eve were the garments of Satan because
Satan was thrown out. He was he had a sanctuary, right,
so he was once the high priest of creation. So
once he transgressed and did what he did, his position
was taken away. His garments were taken away and were
given to humanity. And so if you think about that,
you know, like I said, this is conjecture. This is
something I've put together by looking at this and seeing
where things point. But if that does pan out, something
that was once Satan's prize possession, something that elevated him
and all his pomp, is now a constant reminder of
his shame, of his fall because humanity is now wearing it,
that alone would make Satan hate you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and I think also, I mean a
lot of this is right.
Speaker 1: This also goes back to I think the whole when
you think about Esau and Jacob, right, the older serving
the younger. Right, we are essentially the younger siblings of
the angelic realm.
Speaker 4: And yet you know what's happening is being reversed. We
are taking the place of the falling angels. Right.
Speaker 1: It's just like Israel being brought into the promise that
God said, I'm putting you in a land that you
that was not yours. Right, You didn't earn this land.
I earned it for you, into homes that aren't yours, right,
And so I think that that was driving Satan. Is
this jealousy essentially of Adam, who we know. You know,
it's not conjectural that he was given dominion, right, dominion
and implies authority, rank, hierarchy, rulership, and God gave him dominion.
So yeah, I think that goes to the heart of
the entire conflict between the fall Angelic realm in humanity, and.
Speaker 3: It's an overarching story throughout scripture, the parable of the
Prodigal Son, that that's about the elder brothers. Like you mentioned,
the angelic race. That job says that we're there to
witness creation because they sang with joy at the side
of it. There are elder brothers and we got favor
from our heavenly father, and they were jealous, you know
on that parable? What is it the the younger son
squanders the inheritance and the older son never leaves, always
stays there, and then when he comes back, he's mad.
He's like, you know, you never killed a fat and
calf for me and through a party for me. You know,
I think all that. I'm not saying that that wasn't
maybe a literal thing, but there's so many deeper double
meanings in a lot of these stories.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's amazing pictures that God gives us all throughout scriptures.
So talk to me about how you.
Speaker 4: Connect these garments to Nimrod.
Speaker 3: M Okay, Now that's another interesting story because even how
you mentioned, we get these little blurbs and it's like
something was off, something was weird here. There has to
be more to this story. And even like with the
Book of Enoch and Genesis six, and you know, I'm
of the opinion it's because they didn't want to be
the dead horse. Whether it was very well known through
oral tradition or they had it in riding already. Either way,
it was something that the people were well aware of,
and the authors felt they didn't need to cover it
because it was already well known. But when you get
to Esau and Jacob, you know, and this was the
famous trading of the birthright.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And.
Speaker 3: As a kid, I read that and I was like,
that makes absolutely no sense to me. You know, in
modern terms, your dad is a multi millionaire and you're
the oldest. You're next in line to receive all that money,
to be the head of the business. And one day,
you know, you come in and you see your younger
brother eating a bag of the Rito's and you're like, man,
I'm starving, Hey giving them bag of Doritos and he's like,
huh sign over the company and it's yours A sure, yeah,
what No, that don't make some sense. So, I mean
that's kind of what this was here. But when you
go through and you read that, man, you have to
go to extra biblical books to get that answer. And me,
my opinion is I will look at these extra biblical
books and eat the meat and spit out the bones,
compare it to scripture and see if it lines up
and answers questions or fills in gaps and as long
as it doesn't contradict scripture and ties the narratives together
for a flowing story. I'm okay with that and I
can accept that. And I know some people they just
you know, strictly stick to the cannon. And this is
not a salvation thing. This is just for people like
me and you Ryan. We're treasure hunters. Man. He got
to know, you know what I mean. So God leaves
these bread crumb trails I believe for us to find
because it excites us, it draws us closer to God.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So in that story that starts off in Genesis twenty five,
starts in verse twenty nine, So this is something I'm
sure I don't have to go through line by line
with people. They're well familiar with it. But basically it
says that he come in exhausted from the field and
his brother was making a pot of red stew and
he says, give me some of that red stew. And
he's like, well, give me your birthright. And well, one
thing people look over a lot is in verse thirty one,
Esau says, I'm about to die of what use is
a birthright to me? So I mean he's literally saying
I'm about to die. I don't care about my birthright.
It wasn't that he's hungry, and people missed the urgency.
If you go to thirty three, it says then Jacob says,
swear to me now. You know, he says it twice.
You know, do this, tell me you'll do this thing.
Swear to me now. So there's some urgency there. So
it's like maybe he is on desk, door bed, you know,
doorstep literally. So, but when you go to the Book
of josh Er, that's where you get your gap feelings.
And here's where Nimrod comes into the picture. And when
I first read this, this totally just blew my mind
and answered so many questions I had in my head.
But in chapter twenty seven of the Book of Jasher,
verse one says, and he saw at that time after
the death of Abraham frequently went into the field to hunt,
and Nimrod, the king of Bible, the same was. Afriel
also frequently went with his mighty men to hunt in
the field and to walk about with his men in
the cool of to day. And Nimrod was observing east
all his days. For a jealousy had formed in the
heart of Nimrod against Esau all of the days. And
on a certain day, Esau went into the field to hunt,
and he found Nimrod walking in the wilderness with his
two men, and all his mighty men and his people
were with him in the wilderness, but they removed at
a distance from him, and they went from him in
different directions to hunt. And Esau concealed himself from Nimrod,
and he lurked from him in the wilderness, and Nimrod
and his men that were with him did not know him.
And Nimrod and his men frequently walked about in the
field in the cool of the day and to know
where his men were hunting in the field. And Nimrod
and his two men that were with him came to
the place where they were when Esau started out suddenly
from his lurking place, drew his sword and hastened and
ran to Nimrod and cut off his head. And Esau
fought a desperate fight with the two men that were
with Nimrod, and when they called out to him, Esau
turned to him and smote them to death with his sword.
All the mighty men of Nimrod, who had left him
to go in the wilderness, heard the cry at a distance,
and knew the voices of the two men, so they
ran to know the cause of it. When they found
their king and the two men that were with them
lying dead in the wilderness. And when Esau saw the
mighty men of Nimrod coming at a distance, he fled
and thereby escaped. And Esau took the valuable garments of Nimrod,
which Nimrod's father had bequeathed to Nimrod, and with which
Nimrod prevailed over the whole land. And he ran and
concealed them in his house. And Esau took those garments
and ran into the city on the account of Nimrod's men.
And he came into his father's house wearied and exhausted
from the fight, and he was ready to die through
grief when he approached his brother Jacob and sat before him,
and he said it to his brother Jacob, behold, I
shall die this day, and therefore then do I want
the birthright. And Jacob acted wisely with Esau in this manner,
and Esau sold his birthright to Jacob, for it was
brought about by the Lord.
Speaker 4: Interesting. So the the thesis.
Speaker 1: Here is that Nimrod had these garments from the garden,
and they were helping him assuming supernaturally giving in power.
And then eventually Esau obtained them after the fight.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it even says in here where it was it,
it says that through the garments is how he prevailed
over the land. So it attributed his grandeur to these garments.
And also the description of Nimrod and his men, it
said they were mighty men. They were gibore gibel rheim,
the same word used to describe the Nephelom giants exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, might the mighty men of old men of
Vernow in Genesis sixty four. And so, so this is
where something is very interesting to me right here, right
is in this aspect of it, because you know, I'm
gonna just put up here the verse here when you
get to the introduction of Nimrod in scripture, let's see
if we have it here, that's why I have it here.
Hang on, okay, So right, so cush begat Nimrod. He
began to be a mighty one in the earth. He
began to be a gibberem and so and so what
I talk about and of course says he was a
mighty hunter before the Lord before it is said, even
as Nimrod, the mighty hunter before the Lord. And what
I find there, and this is what I write about
in Judgment and Nephilim is it's it's I believe Scripture
is describing a process. Something happened to him. Right in
the Subtugen says he became a giant, but something he underwent,
something happened to him supernaturally that he became a gibbereem.
And so I I my speculation and my thesis on
that is that I think it was something done by
the falling angels, kind of like you see with Nbeca,
Nazzer and Daniel chapter four.
Speaker 4: But it's interesting that I find it interesting.
Speaker 1: In the Book of Joshure seems to be saying that
the garments made him become the great warrior hunter killer
that he's renowned for in ancient times.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing. It's like, I'm a type of person.
I think it's not one. It's not this or that.
It's a combination of this and this. You know, there
could have been some dead ancestor veneration, some cannibalistic rights
and things like that to turn something some dormant gene
on in his DNA to make him change like this.
And it could have been a mixture of that and
these garments, or it could have been and just the
ritual stuff. And it just coincidentally happened right when he
gives these garments, and people attributed it to the garments.
You know, whether these garments were supernatural or not. I mean,
who knows. Nobody knows, but we can say with certainty
that the people of that time believe them to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and definitely in the ancient Jewish writings that was
their belief. And so but another interesting thing too, and
I have here i'll throw the verses back up, is
you know, you see this reference here.
Speaker 4: To hunters.
Speaker 1: Right, of course Nimrod was he He says, he was
a mighty hunter with the Lord. You know, the only
the first two hunters in scripture are Nimrod and Esau. Yeah, yeah,
but there you know, so again it's another connection. And
then I just referenced this passage here in Jeremiah twenty
three where God is talking about a judgment. Right, this
is God claiming the judgment, and he says, and after
will I send in the highlighted section for many hunters,
and they shall hunt them from every mountain. So this
idea that when God sending a hunter, it's not a
hunter of animals, it's a hunter of humans. Right, This
is this is a you know, and you see here
because God says, from mine eyes are upon all their ways.
They are not hid from my face. Neither is their
iniquity hid from my eyes. So this is about judging
the iniquity in this passage of Judah and the idea
of a hunter being a hunter of people. And then
again you see this connection that the really the only
two hunters we find described in scripture are in Nimrod
and Esau. So I just find that fascinating, how there
is there are these hints of a link between these
two figures in scripture.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it even hints to like, when I read
that that in Jasher, it is like to me, it
words as though Nimrod was hunting Esau. And you gotta remember,
he's this hairy, huge man. You know what we in
our modern vernacular, if we've seen that, seeing him out
in the woods, we would say, without hesitation, I seen sasquatch,
I've seen Bigfoot.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So you have.
Speaker 3: It's like the Highlander there can only be one baby,
and here's these two ego maniacs, you know what I mean.
They're both mighty men, they're gibores, they're both known as
the mightiest hunter of the field. So there's like, Okay,
I'm going to show the other who's the mighty man,
who the one is and Nimrod, I'm sure he went
out with his men to hunt, and he was said
that jealousy built up in the heart of Nimrod against
the East all of his days. And it worded it
like they were going out on a hunt for this
wild beast of a man, and he's like, I'm gonna
have his head on my wall. It's gonna be like
modern deer hunters do today. It was gonna be his
trophy piece over his mantle.
Speaker 4: Exactly. Yeah, it's very very it's very very fascinating.
Speaker 1: And like even the fact that you know Nimrod again
has this you know in the Bible saying as it
is said Nimrod that might you know, he was a legend, right,
he was a legendary figure in the ancient world for
being a hunter.
Speaker 4: So him going.
Speaker 1: After Esau, that scenario would be pretty quite epic. Now, Yeah,
So what are your thoughts then on Esau despising the
birth rate?
Speaker 4: What do you what is your research brought to you
on that aspect of it.
Speaker 3: See, I don't think that he despised his birth right.
I think it was a desperation trade. And then because
you see, obviously like after he traded it, he hated
his brother. And if you read a lot of these
apocryphal books and stuff, he even plotted with his sons
to kill Jacob, and Jacob ends up, you know, giving
his son's money, bribed him not to kill him, and
it's like he played nice for the family, but he
despised him. And it grows even more because when you
look who he married into. Number one, when you read scripture,
he marries into Whoorie hit Tip giant clans, and it
says that the land that they come from was Mount Sier.
Mount Sier is in Hebrew that's Harry and they were
known giant clans. And then he takes a few wives
there and then he takes his third wife. Where does
he go. He goes to Ishmael and takes one of
his daughters. So there you have the joining together of
the two elder brothers that lost their inheritance and hated
their younger brothers for it. So you can imagine the
hatred that was shared and spewed around the campfire at
their family reunions.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, And I find also interesting to see.
Speaker 1: And that's to me, is like the big connection that
I make to Esau and Genesis three fifteen and the
Neffelin that he I think it very intentionally marries Canaanite women, right,
And so I'm going to throw the verse up here
because again I think there's another connection the scriptures showing
us here with his wives, right. It says here in
Genesis twenty six, Esau was four years old and he
took his wife Judith, the daughter of Bria, like you said,
at Hittite, right, So he's marrying into the descendants of Canaan.
And it says in Bashamath the daughter of Elon the Hitsite,
which were a grief of mind unto Isaac and to
Rebecca as you mentioned. And isn't it interesting here later
on in Genesis thirty six says Esau took wives of
the daughters of king and describing his lineage here, and
we're seeing this langage one. He's a polygamist, which we
see with Lammik in Genesis chapter four. And look look
at his wife, Ada, the daughter of Elon the Hittite,
and Lammik who took who was the first polygamist on record.
His wife was Ada of the.
Speaker 4: Women that when he took his wives.
Speaker 1: And so that to me again when we talk about
the spiritual act, like is he a seed? Is he
of the wicked one? This is to me this all
ties it in that he's literally flaunting himself against the
ultimate prophecy of Genesis through fifteen. He'll marry into the
king at lineage. He'll risk mingling seed and all these
things in direct defiance of yahweh.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And if you think about it, I know, I told
you we have talked about it before the show started.
I said, if you take this Harry quote unquote sasquatch
looking man and breed with giants, you have a very
high probability of throwing some really strange pups, to say
the least. And then you throw in the spiritual and
just the visceral Belico spirit of Ismael. And that's why
you have the hatred for God's people, because when you
look all of your Middle Eastern religions, the Muslims and
all these different religions that spring forth from that area,
I all trace their lineage back to Ishmael and Esaul.
And these are the people that want to totally annihilate
God's people. It is the total perfect embodiment of Genesis
three point fifteen, the enmity between her seed and diced.
And I even found reading flavous Josephus when he's talking
about the brothers. I think he chose a word very
carefully because he said to describe the hostility between those
two brothers. He says enmity. Wow, he's pointing back to
Genesis three fifteen.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's good. That's good. Yeah, No, definitely.
Speaker 1: And then you think about this, this the spiritual warfare aspect,
when you talk about this hatred right right, and this
desire for you know, genocide essentially right, it's it's it's demonic,
right or satanic fulling angelic, all those things. So yeah,
really fascinating. So speaking of Sear now, and again this
is one of my personal questions because I've always wondered
what is happening in Genesis thirty six with the descendants
of he saw in the dukes and all these descriptions. Uh,
do you have any thoughts of research insights on his
his lineage that we see clearly detailed in scripture.
Speaker 3: Now, honestly, I just looked into just his lineage of
marrining into those giant clans and and went through that.
And as far as I made it, I made it
up to like the priest of Balem because his Esau's nephew. Uh.
And I'm drawing a blank right now. Help me Ryan
the famous one.
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, his nephew, Esau's.
Speaker 3: Nephew, the Amalachi or what was his name? The famous
that was he had a whole clan named after him.
Speaker 4: That's the Yeah, well.
Speaker 3: What of him? But I can't remember his name now,
But this guy was described as a Nephelom giant. He
was a fierce warrior and he was the nephew of
Esau and even had a whole tribe named after him
Amelik Amelik.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 3: And when you get to Balm in that prophecy, I
found that kind of strange that he goes up on
this mountain and said of cursing God's people, you know,
he blesses them, but it says that he mentions all
these tribes and curses them, and it says that he
even turns, and he turns and starts addressing Amelik. Amelik
wouldn't there, and he was talking about, you know, disinherit him,
and it said that, you know, and I'm just kind
of going off top of the dome here. This is
something that just came up. And I don't have my notes,
but basically that you were first among the nations, but
you will be brought low. Yeah, And to me, I
was just like, man that sent goose bumps up my
back when I read that. I was like, Amelik wasn't there.
So was he Was he talking to the spirit of Amelik?
Or was he looking from that mountaintop toward the lands
of Amelik? And then he calls to attention his mightiness
and how he was first of the nations because in
my opinion, that bloodline, that DNA genetic advantage that they had,
and even their name, that name means the blood liquors.
And I think that's why. And I talk about it
in the book when Moses leads the Israelites out of
Egypt and goes into the wilderness, this was the lands
of those people and their first inco owner is with
that tribe. Well, then you get the laws from God,
and what does God say repeatedly, don't seek necromancers, don't
seek mediums, don't drink the blood. And it's my opinion,
and he says, and stop sacrificing to harry goat demons.
It's because my opinion, I'll say that, because they were
in the land of Seerra, these harry giant crossbreed people,
and they were having contact with them, and they were
doing as they did. These people were necromancers, they were cannibalistic,
doing sacrifice and drinking the blood. And I believe that
these are what's referred to in the Bible as these
harry goat demons. And then when you get into the
book Isaiah, that's where you get the whole Lilith. In
the screech Owl, it even mentions these wild animals. Well,
when you go through the original Hebrew, that's a satyr.
And what's a satyr. A satyr is a half goat,
half man. And I find it fascinating when you go
through the description of Esau. When Jacob steals the blessing,
he goes in, what's his mother tell him to do?
She says, go and kill one of the kid goats
and bring it to me. I'm gonna prepare a meal,
and we're gonna push you off as Esau because your
father's blind. And he freaks out. He's like, no, I'm
a smooth man. Mom, I'm a smooth man. What if
he finds out and he curses me instead? She says,
just do what I tell you, and you're cursing if
it come, will be on me. So it wasn't metaphoric language.
I've heard people say, oh, that was just poetic language.
Speaker 4: That was metaphor. There he was.
Speaker 3: He took a goat's fur and put it around him
to imitate his brother. That was literal. And if you've
ever felt of a goat's fur, oh man, it's oily,
it's cores. And once again you had this association with
the harry goat demons and the wild men of the
wilderness and these dancing says that Isaiah talks about. I mean,
all this stuff is connected. Even when you go into
later down the line, you have a crumpus, then you
have in Sardinia the mathones. These people dress up with
these hairy goats skins and wear bells, and dance, and
they grab and take women. And you have all these
stories throughout time and history of these wild men. I
mean it all that that's the origin point in my opinion.
Speaker 1: And there are many gods, ancient deities, pagan gods that
are associated with Esau.
Speaker 4: So so going out exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, So I think there's a lot happening
here spiritually at play that has influenced so much of
what's happening in the unseen realm on the fallen side.
So I definitely definitely agree with that.
Speaker 4: And so by the way, I had to just.
Speaker 1: You know, Instagram, just for the Instagram watchers, I had to,
I know, the live ended, I just I just restarted again.
So for whatever reason, Instagram only allows your lives to
go for one hour and then the end the stream
and you have to like restart it. So for those
Instagram sorry for the brief interruption, but welcome.
Speaker 3: Back, Welcome to the overtime session.
Speaker 4: Right, that's right.
Speaker 1: So let's see is there any and obviously you know,
I you know, I don't wanted you to give away
the whole book, but is there any other aspects you
want to touch and that we haven't hit on?
Speaker 4: And I have one question so that I didn't even
ask you in the pre roll.
Speaker 1: Do you talk about, uh, do you connect any of
this conflict and Esau and his whole epic, his own
origin or anything we surrounding him.
Speaker 4: Do you.
Speaker 1: Discuss end Time's prophecy in the book or have any
theories that connect it that that join any any any
connecting points to Jacob and Esau.
Speaker 3: Uh No, Honestly, I just kind of, you know, give
my hypothesis about you know, whether you know in one way, shape, form,
or the other, that I thought he was, you know,
a serpent seed, and how he was tied in with
these Nephelim, and how even in Isaiah and the septuagen
says that you know, in the end times that behold,
you know, giants are coming to fulfill my wrath. Yeah,
that that they're going to have a part to play
in it. And then also just the the the normal
people that grew up in those religions and ideologies are
ultimately fighting on in Satan's army to destroy destroy the
people of God. Their poems in the game. But one
thing that I did kind of go off. I was
all diving into the history and the genealogies and stuff.
I do end the book with this kind of like
some spiritual reflection, how us as modern readers, what kind
of moral lesson should we take from Esau? And I
talked about, you know, the parable of the of the
prodigal son, and how he had the opportunity to repent,
but he didn't. He hardened his heart and stayed the
course and just totally just went into full fledged rebellion
out of his anger. And where he didn't forgive, he
didn't choose forgiveness, and like a cancer, it just say
festered and it grew in him until it was just
he was just too far gone. But I kind of
touched on that in the end, just as us as
modern readers, the kind of spiritual lessons and takeaways you
know that I had taken from Esau.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And I think also from an apologetic standpoint,
I think it also helps everything we're talking about his nature,
his actions, all these things. Also I think shed light
on Paul writing about Eso and the idea that God
is quoting Malaki. The God hated Esau, right, Jacob, I
loved Esa. I hated and it's like, again, it's one
of those questions where someone can easily say, well, why
why is God just arbitrarily choosing to hate one twin
and love the other twin? And so do you have
any thoughts about that?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: With me, I think it's because you know, it says
that God is a god of love, and you know
he's our heavenly father. He loves us all, and why
he loves us all is because we are his children.
So for him not to love someone, to me, I'm like, well,
obviously he's not his children. And not only is it
not his children, it's someone that is in that's standing
in direct opposition of the father's will and trying to
harm his children. You know, if you have kids, you
know that all things in your life that were important
and that you loved all fall flat on their face
after that. You don't mess with a father's kids. If
someone's messing with your kids, man, you're going to go
into grizzly bear mode. So to me, when I read that, honestly,
that just affirmed my belief that Esau was different, he
was of a different breed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and I think again it also just you know,
anytime we can it clarifies. I mean, that's such a
powerful statement, right, And so I think anytime we can
make it easier to understand and see his history and
his attitude towards again Genesis three fifteen, it gives more
light of how that God is not never acting irrationally
or arbitrarily.
Speaker 4: Right. So awesome.
Speaker 1: Well, we have a lot of questions in the chat
about about what we've been talking about tonight.
Speaker 4: So I'm gonna get some you up for a little
live Q and A in overtime.
Speaker 1: Let's do it, all right, So we're gonna take a
quick break and then we come back.
Speaker 4: We're gonna get to your questions. So if you have
questions for.
Speaker 6: Justin about you get a friend, absolutely absolutely, I got
your back, my brother, I got your back, or any topic,
here's your chance.
Speaker 4: Don't put them in the chat. Now we're gonna get
some questions.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break, and we're gonna come back
with some live Q.
Speaker 4: And A after this break. Okay.
Speaker 1: And that, of course, was the trailer for the audiobook
of Judgment of the Nephila, my first book, which goes
through Genesis six, goes through everything we're talking about. Genesis
three point fifteen, the prophecy of the seed of the
woman and the enmity between that seed and the seed
of the serpent. Right, and so gets into Genesis six,
Genesis six, the Nephila and the giants, how this all started,
and how it traces all the way to the birth
of the messiety Isshua in the gospels.
Speaker 4: So and I have the Final Nephilum as well, which
is the sequel to Judgment of the Nephilim. And it
gets into the end times.
Speaker 1: It gets into revelation, the prophecies, the rise of Antichrist,
his agenda, his mission, his supernatural power, him being the seed,
the final seed of the serpent of Satan himself, and
he gets into as you see, they are UFOs, quantum physics, transhumanism,
touches on a lot of topics, so you can find
all that and more. There are also documentary study guides.
All the links to those things are in the description
of this video, as well as Justin's links.
Speaker 4: You can find his social media.
Speaker 1: You can find me these links, podcasts links, dig Bible
podcast links all in the description of the video. So
please uh subscribe to his channels, put some likes on there,
some some kind five star reviews, and support this Brothers
he gets ready to launch his book. So you're excited
to put your book out there in the public sphere.
Speaker 3: I am, uh, And honestly uh, I told you pre
roly was. I don't even care if I don't make
a dime off the book, because to me, it ain't
about the money. It's just about writing a book, getting
it out there, and maybe you know, drawing some attention
to my podcast and the stuff that I researched, because
that that is my passion. And it's like you know,
in these circles, it's you're you're not taken seriously or
given proper attention unless you have some author you know,
some books authored under your your name and onto your resume.
So that that's the whole point of me even written
this book, was just get my ideas out there and
then I can have a that check mark under my
resume and maybe get some people to have some discussions
with me.
Speaker 4: I love talking as do I, as do I.
Speaker 1: We take you very seriously already, so the book will
only enhance that. So it's all good, So we look
forward to it. So let's get to some comments and
questions here. All right, We've got a super chat here
from Jesus saves hope you had a wonderful holiday. Thank
you so much for your generosity. And yes, I had
a wonderful, wonderful holiday. I mean it's I got to travel,
I got to watch football, I got to spend time
with my family and some beautiful weather. It was a
great time. So God, it's good. So thank you very much, Christy.
Christie said, here Gilgamesh fought one. Also, I think this
is in reference to the fighting the Gibbereem, So.
Speaker 3: I talk about that in the book. I got a
whole chapter on the epic mission. How I think it's
just a twisted, fallen round version of the story of Esau.
And now even the Tom I seen Tom in the
chat said something about the Golden fleece. I talk about
that in the book. Also, I think that that's another
story that's connected that's kind of changed.
Speaker 1: Here we go, Tom Ali, Yeah, it's interesting that the
guard that that the garment spoken of Jesure that never
it's a similar story. Yeah, the Golden fleece. Right, And again,
when you talk about this ancient cosmology and how these
are just retellings, that's a perfect that's a really really
really good Uh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even Satan because it's aries the ram mm hmm.
And it goes back to and I hate to sound
new age, but the the astronomical stuff, the the the
housing of the sun, you know, the ages that were
in you know, I talked about it in the book
that I believe that that points back to the Age
of Ares. And this ram was sacrificed and its skin
was taken, and it was a birthright. It was a
symbol of authority that the king's wore. It sounds a
whole lot like the garments in the Garden of Eden.
And uh, even with the whole Satan connection. And you
go back to Isaac. He was the firstborn, the chosen son,
and he was going to be sacrificed. And what happens
a ram?
Speaker 4: I provided a ram?
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Very interesting stuff. All right.
Speaker 1: Let's see here, Well look at that, Jennifer said, reminds
me of Isaac and Ishmael. The younger got the birthright
and the older was spanished, but both were ahead of
two nations.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: So again right in line with your research.
Speaker 1: M all right, let's see here, got a great review,
yea great you give you a shout out, all right,
let's get to this is interesting. Do you have any
theories on this? You find anything about that?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't find anything about that. But I mean,
as I mentioned is when we started the discussion, you
hear so many stories about these red haired, you know,
six finger giants, especially in the North America, the native traditions,
and then Goliath had the six fingers and stuff. I
think it's a good possibility, but I've not found anything
that just come right out and said it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh and and you do mention. I'm assuming
you mentioned and you get into Bigfoot in the book
as well.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I talk about just how I there did
I dedicate a chapter or two of establishing what they
call the wild man. So if you go to Britain,
there's all kinds of stories about this. You know, Harry
Man in the in the woods and he would raid
the villages at night and take women and take food.
And then you go to North America, the Sasquats, you
go down to China, they call it the year and uh,
I talked about the mathones uh down there in Sardinia.
This is something that is culture blind, and it's throughout
all ages, throughout all people. So I kind of laid
and I tell some of those stories and lay that
foundation that you know, this is found everywhere, and this
is what it's saying, in my opinion anyway, what Esau was,
and just if we used our modern vernacular, that is
what we would call a bigfoot today. And I even
talk about other characters in the Bible that have this
that a lot of people look over. You know, if
you read the Targetms Cain. I know we've talked about
him tonight. It says that his mark was that he
was covered in hair and even given a horn, and
that Lomech how we get in Genesis that he comes
home distraught and says if Cain's cursing was time seven
mine seventy times seven. And because that story details that
he was blind in his older age and his son
helped him hunt, and his son mistaked Caine as a
beast of the field and Limeck accidentally kills him, and
then his anger kills his son for the mistake, and
then even Nebucenezzar. That's another story that I think. I
used to think that that was like a wirewolf, you know,
or something like that, But now I'm like, nah, I
believe he was. It was the same cursing as Cain
he saw. It's kind of like a common cursing calling
card of God. And yeah, you just see it throughout
other cultures and histories too.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the most fascinating passages in scripture
to me, because I mean it's there in very clear
detail that he is literally transformed, right, he's growing hair,
he's going feathers, right and so, and of course done
by the watcher angels. So and that's when I think
about Nimrod. That's what I think about. That's why I said,
that's my idea with Nimrod. There's a question about this too,
so we'll put this one.
Speaker 4: Up here from m A. Do you believe Nimrod was Harry?
Speaker 3: He could have very well been. I mean, but I
know the depictions and stuff we have, like the statues,
he's you know, so large, and he's holding a lion
like a kiddy cat. He's got this long flowing hair
and the chest hair and things like that, I think
that they were of the same breed. And even with
the genetics side scientific side of it, as I was
looking into this, we know it as Wolfman syndrome, and
it's a rare genetic thing, but it happens, and that's
why you have the bearded lady, the wolfman, and all
these people that were recorded in history. And this is
a genetic defect that basically the scientific name is called hypertrixosis.
And a lot of people don't realize, but if you
look this up on Wikipedia that I can't remember the
name of the hair. It was like ligano or something
like that. But basically, we are all covered in fine
hair in the womb. But at a certain point, your
DNA tells you to shed that hair, and those people
there's something wrong genetically or something misfires, and your body
doesn't tell you to shed that hair, and that is
how you get these bearded ladies and these wolf men
and things like that. So it's a genetic alteration and
or defect.
Speaker 1: Makes me think of Revelation nine in the fifth trumpet,
right the locust that says they have, you know, face
of a.
Speaker 4: Man and hair of a woman.
Speaker 1: Right, the Bible is specifically highlighting that to me, something
is abnormal about their hair. If they have a man's face,
how long it must be that they have hair of
a woman. So let's see here. So let's see you
get some other some other questions here for you. Do
you have any thoughts on this? Why do you think
Isaac favored Esau?
Speaker 3: I believe because one it was the cultural norm. You know,
the eldest is the one that got the blessing. That
would so Isaac, being a man raised in a certain tradition,
would would go with the cultural norm and the traditions
of the time. But I think it's honestly, it's just
think about today. Men. If we have a son and
he's a manly man, you know, he's out, he's working,
he's paying the bills, he's you know, going out and
hunting and can lift heavy weights, and you're proud of him.
He puts on that football jersey and he's scoring the
touchdowns and knocking people over. That's my boy, you know
what I mean. We do that today. So it's like
if you and it said that Jacob, you know, it
doesn't come right out and say that he was a
sissy man. But I mean it says that he was
a man of the house. Yeah, he wasn't outside doing
all these manly things. He was inside stuck onca Rebecca's hip.
He was kind of a mama's boy. So of course
the manly man Isaac favored the eldest number one, but
also he was the manly man.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think there's some definitely some long standing truth to
that answer right there. Oh, this is interesting, So life
travel word said, uh, and that's a fun way to live,
by the way, enjoying life, enjoying travel, and enjoying the
Word of God.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: I just came upon information tying the WHR rights to
Horace as he meaning you justin have you seen any
connections connections between the WHR rights and obviously the Egyptian
god Horace.
Speaker 3: No, I haven't looked into that. That's uh, appreciate that.
That gives me a new bunny trail go down.
Speaker 1: It happens to me every week. I got a question
about it. I never thought about that before. So that's
the that's the that's the beauty of the show. I
leave with so many ideas because our audience has always.
Speaker 4: Had some really good questions.
Speaker 1: So, uh, all right, Nanny says, interesting that that coat's features,
thinking of Joseph and the many colored coat that Joseph
of course has in Genesis.
Speaker 3: Yep, bingo yatzi. I like, yeah, And there's even a
hint of those garments in scripture that a lot of
people look over. And I found it on a hunch
with Dereck Gilbert. I went on his show and we
were talking and we got to because for those just
that we were talking about those garments. If anybody was wondering, well,
how did Nimrod end up with these garments? Well, when
you go through Jasher, it trails these garments, and it's
a passing of the birthright, and it goes through the
proper lineage like it's supposed to, you know, goes through
Enoch and Methuselam and all the you know, the good
line But once it goes onto the ark with Noah,
it says that in Ham's going out, he stole them
in secret and passed them to Cush, and then Cush
gave them to Nimrod. And it says that he give
them to Nimrod at his twentieth birthday when he was
coming of age to be a man, and it said
when he put on the gard armits, that's how he
became mighty. I said, I believe when we read that story,
we see those garments, but people look over it all
the time. I said, a lot of people that know
the uncovering thy father's nakedness. When you look in Leviticus,
it says plainly, to sleep with thy father's wife is
to uncover thy father's nakedness. So that was an incestuous
act of rebellion to take over the home what Ham done.
So if you look at Rubin, Ruben done the same thing.
If you look at David's son Absalom, he done the
same thing. He run out David. What was the first
thing he did? He pitched a tent on top of
the house and went into all of his concubines in
the side of all of Israel. Back in the day,
that was just a way of flexing on the old man.
It was the assertion of dominance. So this is what
hann was trying to do there. But when you get
to that story, it says that the other brothers take
a garment and placed on their back and walk backwards
and covers their father's nakedness. I told Derek, I said,
I mean, I said it. Don't come right out and
say it, but I think that those are the garments.
And he was like hmmm, And he got to look
in and he was like, just and I think you're
onto something.
Speaker 4: He said.
Speaker 3: When you look into the original language, he said in
except two agent, he said, it has a definite article
to those garments. It doesn't say a garment, it says
the garment.
Speaker 4: So I think very interesting. That is very very interesting.
Speaker 3: And that was the symbol of authority. So it goes
perfectly in line with the narrative of the story too.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I watched that episode, that was
a great episode. Yeah, with Derek and I emailed them afterwords.
I was like, whoa, that was good. I was like,
you you're cooking man. When you brought that one out.
I was not expecting that. So, speaking of the scept
Tuo agent, we have another question. I think the sept
Tuo agent can actually answer.
Speaker 4: So uh.
Speaker 1: And to get this from Dusty who gave you the
shadow earlier, justin why were there three more stones on
the breastplate of the High Priest Aaron than on the
covering cherub going back to is he killed twenty eight?
Any ideas or personal thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: Uh. I talked about that in the book, you know,
I said that it was my opinion that the original nine.
I mean, you talked about it in that episode you
did with me when you come on to the show
and we did a show on the powerful stones exactly. Yeah, yeah,
and how those nine stones could have very well represented
the nine planetory spears. And I just postulated in the book.
I said, Well, to me, I don't know the you know,
one hundred percent definite answer, but to me, twelve is
definitely an upgrade from nine. So it's not only so
if my theory proved correct that these were the coverings,
you know, the priestly garments of Satan, and he was
demoted and stripped of his position, the garment taken and
given to Adam. So not only do you lose your position,
you lose your your e fod and priestley garments. You
only had nine stones, I'm giving them twelve. They're getting
an upgrade.
Speaker 1: Nice, all right, we have let's see you all right life.
Travel word is back with a super chat thank you
so much, and it says thanks. Horace's name related to
the roots how are in Semitic and might mean the
deep one. Similar in Arabic word Hower refers to the
bottom of the well and Hebrew horror cave.
Speaker 3: Interesting, especially when you get into the lore of the
of these giants and these wild men. Also they both
are connected to caves and all their stories. That's that's
where they like to dwell and hang out, and it
has the associations with the underworld and the abyss.
Speaker 1: And like the darkness over the face of the so exactly.
So hey, justin this was awesome and before yeah no,
thank you so much for coming on, and before we rap,
I want to make sure give you a chance to
anything else you want to share, and definitely let people
know one more time, how can we find you, how
can we follow you? And anything else you want to
share about the podcast, the book, The floor is yours,
my men.
Speaker 3: Now, I appreciate the time, and uh, I tell people
this all the time. It's like I'm the I'm the
super fan that gets to go backstage and I've been
doing this for about, you know, two and a half
years now, but it still doesn't get old. I still
get the butterflies and get excited to talk to you
guys because you are my motley crew. You know you guys.
I cut my teeth reading y'all's books and listen to
you guys on YouTube and following your stuff anything that
I know. It's because of people like you, Ryan, and
so I'm I'm just extremely thankful to be invited to
the table and just have conversations with you. But yeah,
the podcast, both of them, you know, the dig Bible
podcast that's me and two of my buddies, we just
dig through the word. And the other one, Prometheus Len's
you find us on all the YouTube, Spotify, Apple or
all the social media is just yeah, come check it out, man.
I try to have conversations that even a non believer
would would be into and sprinkle them with the truth
while I have their attention. I tell people, I try
to witness to those that are not believers or not
heard the word. But I don't try to just blatantly
beat them over the head into submission, you know. I mean,
I just kind of try to lightly let them figure
it out on their own. But I call it the
hero's journey. That's something we all need to do. We
need to step out in the unknown, and I ask
good questions and be able to have conversations with people
and read the things and just it's a journey, man.
But yeah, check me out. I'd appreciate it. I think
you guys will enjoy it. And just a shameless plug too,
because it's actually tomorrow. I have a group it's called
you know, it's my members group, but I have this
package called the All Access Pass. With that, we have
extra bonus members episodes, and we have a private Facebook community.
We have a forty eight hour early access to all episodes.
I got a bunch of documentaries that I've already filmed
on piece them together now those guys will get that.
But we also do a monthly members chat, and i'd
bute authors and speakers and researchers and guests of the show,
and you guys get to come in and sit down
and video chat with them, ask them whatever questions you got,
and we just have fellowship that way. It's it's really nice.
But we do that one Friday every single month at
eight pm Eastern Standard. But so tomorrow we're having one
and we're having Derek Gilbert in house. So if you
guys ever wanted to sit down, hang out with Derek
or ask you any questions you got, we are doing
that tomorrow at eight o'clock. Just go check out the
website Prometheuslims podcast dot com and follow the members links.
Speaker 4: Awesome, awesome, that's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: And I want you to come on, Ryan, We need
you to come hang out, you know.
Speaker 4: Man, give me a shot. Let me know. I would
love to come and chop it up with you with
all your your group and have a good time, you know.
Speaker 1: And but I'm very confident tomorrow be extraordinary having Derek
there to just ask questions to your bounce ideas off of.
Speaker 4: So that's awesome. That is awesome.
Speaker 1: And once again, for those everyone watching, you can find
the links to all these things. The podcast is justin
social media. Everything is in the description of this video.
So and also put some likes in this room support me.
You did a great job lot first live show, you
did an awesome job. So show them some love. And
once again yes, so if you're watching on replay, thank
you for watching. You can put questions in the comment
section of the video if you want your questions answered
on a future episode. So once again, justin thank you
so much. I appreciate you, brother, God bless you. I'm
excited to see the book and listen once it's ready.
If we be published, we'll bring you back on and
you can you know, we'll throw the throw, the action,
the cover up and all that stuff unless you we
can walk through one more time. So thank you so much.
I appreciate it. Thank you obviously for anyone who's watching
for more information. Again, the links to Justin, to the books,
to my social media, to his social media. It's all
in the description in the video, like subscribe, share God's word,
keep studying, stay faithful, and Lord willing see you next Thursday.
Thank you everyone, God blessed as