WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.240 Welcome to Sex's Medicine, your number one resource for holistic 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:07.639 sex education. I'm Davey word Ericson, and I invite you 3 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:11.480 to join me every week for another enriching and powerful 4 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:18.440 conversation about the intersection of sexuality, spirituality, pleasure, and personal growth. 5 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:23.199 Each episode of Sex's Medicine is dedicated to awakening your 6 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:26.839 heart and mind to the true purpose and power of 7 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:31.280 human sexuality. Please join me on this journey of self 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.280 discovery as we explore the art of using pleasure as 9 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:41.679 medicine to awaken, heal, and empower every area of your life. 10 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:45.479 Sex's Medicine broadcasts every Thursday at seven pm Pacific on 11 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:49.359 Contact Talk Radio Networking. You can listen to the replay 12 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:55.560 and subscribe to Sex's Medicine on Spotify, Stitcher, tune in, iTunes, iHeartRadio, 13 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:59.679 and YouTube. And now get ready for another episode of 14 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:07.159 Sex Is Medicine. Hey, everybody, welcome to sex Is Medicine. 15 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:09.840 I am your host, Davy ward Ericson, here with you 16 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:15.319 once again for another delicious and exciting episode where we 17 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:21.120 explore the connection between sexuality, spirituality, pleasure, and personal growth. 18 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:24.519 One of our favorite topics. I just want to give 19 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:26.280 you a reminder that this is going to be the 20 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.159 last month of sexist medicine for twenty twenty one. We 21 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:33.280 are taking a little winter vaca for November December of 22 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.560 twenty twenty one in early twenty twenty two, but we 23 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:37.640 plan to be back at you in the spring of 24 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.680 twenty twenty two. And in the meantime, of course, you 25 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:44.799 can stay connected to all of this deliciousness at authentic 26 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:46.680 tontra dot com and make sure that you follow us 27 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.280 on all of our social media outlets at Authentic Tentre. 28 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.120 You can also follow my little personal journey of poppy 29 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:57.280 love on davy Ward tntra as well. This evening, we 30 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:01.120 have a wonderful, wonderful guest who has been a colleague 31 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.519 of mine for many many years, a graduate of our 32 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:07.040 Authentic ton for Certification program, actually graduate from our first 33 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.159 the year went to a full year of training, our 34 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:13.599 full first full year of training twenty sixteen, and that 35 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:17.159 is TK and TK Spider is. 36 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:22.080 The I got my spiders on. 37 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:26.639 Oh yeah, for all, you're a rock climber. You're like 38 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:30.199 a spider climbing rocks. Yay, I thought so, I thought so. 39 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:33.039 So TK is joining us this evening to talk about 40 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:37.000 queering TONTRA, a topic that is really important in something 41 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:39.919 that we absolutely want to explore moving into more of 42 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.280 at the institute. So thank you so much, TK for 43 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:43.000 being here with. 44 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:47.240 Us, Thanks for having me Davey, Yeah, yay. 45 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:50.919 So could you share a little bit about yourself? TK? 46 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.520 So you you graduated in twenty sixteen from our training 47 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:57.639 program and what have you been up to since then? 48 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:02.039 I can't believe twenty sixteen only five ish years ago. 49 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:10.479 I I've been doing authentic entre practitioner work. I was 50 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:12.960 working in sports medicine for a while. I'm an athletic 51 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:19.439 trainer certified as well. I stopped doing that. I work 52 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:22.960 at a route setting gym. I do sex and authentic 53 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:29.159 contra coaching. I came out early this year as non 54 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:34.879 binary trans mask. I've been in the kink world. My 55 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:40.000 partner and I have performed at Folsome and Twisted Windows, 56 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:47.439 and we submitted to HUMP so kind of exploring avenues 57 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.879 with kink and infusing and integrating TNTRA and what it 58 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:55.639 means to be queer and trans and polyamorous. And now 59 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:59.840 I am relaunching my formal former Lovecraft collective dot com 60 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:05.439 to queering Tantra dot org with a focus on queer 61 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:09.520 and trans bodies and changing language and infusing what it 62 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:13.879 means to be queer into sexual liberation. Yeah, and that's 63 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:14.960 kind of hand in handle. 64 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.959 Yeah really, and that's a huge topic in the realm 65 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:24.279 of specifically because it is so binary, and we'll explore 66 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:26.560 some of the reasons for that, but because that's also 67 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:30.000 it's very exclusionary, right, there's not a big push in 68 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:32.680 the in the world of at least neo Western neotntra 69 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:38.639 to include non binary bodies and bodies that aren't aren't 70 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:42.360 easily fitting into this box of either or and and 71 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.639 and and for example, So when I, when you and 72 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:48.360 I first met were working together, you were female. That's 73 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.680 how you you identified. And then in your journey, it 74 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:56.120 sounds like your journey of personal liberation has allowed you 75 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.480 to claim the totality of who you are, which is 76 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.759 beyond this box of you know, female woman and into 77 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:06.319 non binary and then also as a man. So are 78 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:08.399 you open to sharing a little bit about that journey. 79 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:16.759 Yeah, it's it's an interesting one. It's spending a lot 80 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:19.920 of time wrestling with language and what it means to 81 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:27.879 exist in a world that has these power structures set up, 82 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.160 so like gender identity and what is what we consider normative, 83 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:35.160 A lot of it's about power, Like when the reasons 84 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:37.319 our brains are categorizing these things, the stuff that we're 85 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:45.800 socialized is socialized into is about competence, power, threat, sexual attraction. 86 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:47.800 But all that kind of plays and boils into the 87 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.959 metal level of power. So I spend a lot of 88 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.000 time wrestling with that and almost Scorpio. You're a scorpio too. 89 00:05:55.439 --> 00:06:02.000 There's like this deep need to understand what's happening, which 90 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:03.720 I think is part of why we're called ta tantra, 91 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:08.199 and so in trying to figure out what's going on 92 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:13.399 understanding why I would like cringe at the word fem 93 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:16.439 or like this kind of idea of like a woman's circle, 94 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.560 and how I actually started to realize I didn't feel 95 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:25.959 like I fit into those spaces. Yeah, just kind of unfolded, 96 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:32.240 and I, in hindsight, my childhood seems so it's like, 97 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:36.560 so twenty twenty makes so much sense. And now the 98 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:42.240 language is evolving to like include new understandings, and I 99 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:44.480 think that that's really the like this stuff has always 100 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:50.079 been here, we're just using words that express it. Differently 101 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:52.600 and more powerfully. 102 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:58.639 Yeah yeah, yeah, So expanding expanding our language, and expanding 103 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:02.000 our understanding of what it means to be human ultimately, 104 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:09.759 and it's many myriad forms, yeah yeah, so exploring all 105 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:14.040 of those concepts. So so for you, it sounds like 106 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.360 as you have been practicing and as you've been like 107 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:22.000 coming more into alightnment with your own authentic self, that's 108 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:27.680 what has catalyzed your exploration outside of these you know, 109 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.800 belief structures and these power dynamics and started to explore 110 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:34.600 outside of that. And so what are some of the 111 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:37.480 things that you've you've you've found now that you've kind 112 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:41.000 of left the container of like the traditional masculine feminine 113 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:43.279 orientation to tantra, what are some of the things that 114 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:47.800 you've seen and in the field and and and you know, 115 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:49.720 looking back, like what are some of the things that 116 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:54.319 you see? If that's a clear question, I. 117 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:56.240 Think, so I'll try and if I don't quite get it, 118 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:10.399 we can try again. Some of it is using more 119 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:16.920 like whole language. So when someone says the term masculine, 120 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:21.040 that's a cultural like da yeah, And I mean I 121 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:26.879 love being masculine, right. My association with the word feminine 122 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:29.759 is not as loving. And so when I think of 123 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:33.679 the things that someone might call feminine, I have a 124 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:36.279 very soft side, and I have a very nurturing side, 125 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:38.919 and I have a very like that the loving carrying 126 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:44.559 the stuff we culturally associate with that. And so some 127 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.039 of it is just a shift away from these kind 128 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:51.840 of umbrella terms that we have used, I mean partially 129 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:56.200 because they are useful into more specific and more like 130 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.679 whole and inclusive language. 131 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:02.399 Yeah, I hear that. I hear that a call for 132 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:06.279 for for humanity and so specifically I know that, I'll say, 133 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:08.360 and you know, there's as we talk about, there's different 134 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:11.279 styles of tantra, and there's different ways of practicing tantra, 135 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:15.320 and so I observe a lot of the masculine feminine 136 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.679 dynamic kind of conversation happening in the realm of neo 137 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.360 Tantra and David Data. It's like as a as a man, 138 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:24.559 as a masculine man, you need to be powerful and 139 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:27.159 have your polarity, and as a feminine woman, like you 140 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:29.559 can't be that good at business. You have to like 141 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.720 be receptive or you're not going to be a man. 142 00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:34.960 You're gonna have too much masculine energy to get fucked 143 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:40.600 or something like that, right, So that's yeah, i'd not 144 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:45.000 crazy making too. And in terms of Tibetan Tnraed Buddhism, 145 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:47.519 I know that for me, where my mind goes and 146 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:50.600 where the emphasis and the masculine feminine is often is 147 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:53.799 on the expression of universal energy. So there's this concept 148 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:57.120 in Tibetan Buddhism that the feminine is formed. So that's 149 00:09:57.159 --> 00:10:00.639 the way like universal energies are are feminine and masculine, 150 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:04.039 and so the feminine is the physical, it's the form, 151 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.639 it's everything having to do with the flesh and the 152 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:11.080 senses and being incarnate or environment. And then the masculine 153 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:15.440 is conceptual and etheric and you know, kind of out 154 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.799 of body. And so the whole thing of tntras, you know, balancing. 155 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.639 We have masculine and feminine within us, and it's balancing 156 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.120 the essences. There's also you know, things just in terms 157 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:27.279 of hormones. I know, in the Daoist tradition and in 158 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:31.720 the Tibetan tradition, feminine essences feminine. They're talking about hormones 159 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:33.840 and they call them the red essences. And it's like 160 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.919 the estrogen and the progesterone and certain hormones that are 161 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:44.840 specific to female gonads. And then the masculine essences are 162 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.679 like the semen and the prosthetic fluid and that sort 163 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.399 of thing, and the testosterone, and those are masculine because 164 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:55.240 those are produced by what are typically called male hormones. 165 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.919 So in terms of you know, rectifying and having more 166 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:02.879 all inclusive legguage, when we're talking about you know, physiological 167 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.240 components or hormones or universal energies, do we need to 168 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.600 be looking at using opening up our terminology and describing 169 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:14.639 those those things differently without using masculine and feminine or 170 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:17.679 are things like when we're describing universal energy, is it 171 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:19.120 acceptable under that umbrella? 172 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:23.279 Great question, And I'm glad you brought up form and 173 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:29.960 energy because that's a that's a big part of energies, right, 174 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.159 It's like what we're embodying and swaying and changing through 175 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.320 in terms of that stuff. So I was just reading 176 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:40.600 through Passionate Lane. We're talking about the red fluids and 177 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:45.960 the white fluids, and one of the things that I've found, 178 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:52.039 you know, in my own engagement or like with my consort, 179 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:56.559 is that you can embody that energy. Yeah, and you 180 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:02.679 can uh, you can embody that energy, and then whatever 181 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.919 fluids you're producing can be whatever fluids you're infusing them with. 182 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:11.000 Energy wise, yes, And so as we move away from 183 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:14.320 this idea of like super binary endocrine systems, because as 184 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:18.399 we study more about testosterone, we find that different bodies 185 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:23.879 that we previously thought would have very specific levels, actually 186 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.600 it's not as binary, and it's not as clear, especially 187 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:30.360 with people from the global self or the periphery, right, 188 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:33.679 So making that more inclusive in terms of like what 189 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:39.120 are we embodying when we are engaged in sex or 190 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:45.559 tantra the partner or by ourselves. Why not make white 191 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:49.320 fluid when you're feeling like it? And I think that 192 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:54.159 that's a big part of kind of what we might 193 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.879 get into later about tantra being part kind of a 194 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.559 counterculture as we like where it came from and how 195 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:05.799 it got passed down to like everyday people, that this 196 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:07.519 is like an evolution of that. 197 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.320 Yeah, and you're you're exactly correct, and that tantra is 198 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:14.720 counterculture like the origins of it. So this whole conversation 199 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:21.320 of queering entre is so fucking dondric like, so like 200 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:27.440 breaking out of our our conceptual reality, our concept of reality, 201 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:30.320 and so so I hear that in terms of like 202 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.480 that would be a wonderful in my experiment to do. 203 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.080 In terms of like, you know, if I'm if I'm 204 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:41.960 really you know, calling on like typical stereotypical feminine energies, 205 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.120 is my body producing hormones that are congruent with that, 206 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.279 And if I shift my energies to be more you know, 207 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:52.840 masculine quote unquote masculine oriented, Am I producing more white essences? 208 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:55.279 That would be very interesting also when occurs to me, 209 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:58.759 that's it seems like a certain level of accomplishment as well. Right, 210 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.960 and then also there are certain aspects of our physicality 211 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:05.840 that that we we don't have control over yet. So 212 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.519 in terms of you know, conversion not conversion therapy, that's 213 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:18.720 a bad thing. In terms of hormones, hormon that's very different. 214 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:21.679 But yeah, but in terms of like, if I want 215 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:25.039 to you know, if I'm transitioning into a man, I'm 216 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:29.360 going to take hormones that's that decrease my as you know, 217 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.600 my my ovary hormones and increase what would be considered 218 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.480 more male hormones. So on the hormonal level, that is 219 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.600 still you know, applicable. I think even you know, in 220 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.559 the trans community, there's acknowledgment that our hormones do affect 221 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:41.240 their anatomy. 222 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.519 Yeah, yeah, it's true, and it's that's such an interesting space. 223 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:49.399 It's like blackness is not a monolith. Trans people are 224 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.919 not a monolith, right. So there's some people that are 225 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:55.919 trans and non binary and maybe don't want to take 226 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.399 hormones but want top surgery, And then there's some people 227 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:00.879 that do want to take hormones but don't want top 228 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:05.360 surgery or like all kinds of ways of expressing themselves. 229 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.600 And there's different amounts of physical dysphoria, and that's something 230 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:14.240 that very interested in working with people about. My own 231 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.960 comes in waves, and there's periods where everything's okay and 232 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.960 this is my body, and then there's periods where it's intolerable. 233 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.720 And so finding the ways through using this energy and 234 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.480 sex as medicine like to move that energy through, I 235 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:32.840 think is also really important. 236 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.320 So let's talk about that because that is a big issue, 237 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:40.960 the body dysphoria, right, and so how do we how 238 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:47.360 do we as inclusive providers support trans and queer people 239 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:52.240 in doing some of those somatic sexual healing practices and 240 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.519 approaching you know, the genitals in a way that's going 241 00:15:55.559 --> 00:16:01.679 to be supportive and loving as opposed to triggering and painful. Well, 242 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:03.360 I guess it's different for each person. 243 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:09.559 So much of our programming is like a client guided process. Yeah, 244 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.799 this is even more so, and so it really depends 245 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:21.519 on what's tolerable. Some people like having their breast tissue touched, 246 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:25.919 and some people that might be a source of dysphoria. 247 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.279 So for imagining, if there's any source of pleasure in 248 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.600 that part of the body, can you get at it? 249 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:37.519 And if so, can you grow it? And maybe it's 250 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:39.440 I want it to be touched this way, but not 251 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.840 that way. I want you to like, grab my muscle, 252 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.320 but don't grab the breast tissue, or you can pinch 253 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:50.080 the nipple, but don't caress my breasts. Right, So it's 254 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.840 a lot of that exploration, whether by yourself or with 255 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:57.799 a partner, of very similar exploration we do with cisgendered 256 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.159 people who haven't touched their bodies or don't know what 257 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:04.119 they like. It's the same kind of questioning process and 258 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:06.400 really making a lot of space and room for whatever 259 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.359 comes up, right, because we know trauma is stored in 260 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.119 the body, and especially in the genital tissues and so 261 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.440 same same kind of like in the genitals, some people 262 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.559 transmit don't or aren't into penetration and some really are 263 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:25.279 and some love it. Yeah, And so finding out whether 264 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:27.119 or not that's going to be something that's on the 265 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:31.640 table and not assuming starting out with thirty seconds, can 266 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.400 you touch yourself for thirty seconds and see if something's there? 267 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.759 Can you see you know? And then moving through that 268 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:44.119 really person to person, really gentle, very curious and like 269 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.519 trying to step back from these so many of them 270 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:49.599 are blind spots, I know because of our culture, but 271 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:50.440 step back from you. 272 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.960 Yeah, exactly, exactly, and I'm hearing, I'm hearing what an 273 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:00.640 incredible opportunity for communication this is and just how slow 274 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:05.640 and like really spacious it needs to be to to 275 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:10.720 support the individual and having their own wisdom arise to 276 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:13.480 communicate what their needs are in regards to this, as 277 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.079 opposed to us as the practitioners, presuming that we know 278 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:18.440 and just kind of shoveling it on them with our 279 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:19.720 biases and all of. 280 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:22.680 That impact and expecting it to shift. Like when I 281 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:24.440 first started working with you, I was in a period 282 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:28.839 of time where I really needed some like soft, juicy, feminine. 283 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.599 I was all into the juicy, and then there there 284 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:35.359 came a shift and I was like that, oh interesting, 285 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:39.920 that's actually an aspect of this thing. And so like 286 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.960 making room for it to move. And there is no 287 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:48.559 there is no there's no destination. It's just like a pleasure. 288 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:50.279 Your pleasure is going to change. You can grow it, 289 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:52.160 grow it, grow it, and then something might happen and 290 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.519 you'll be back to where you you know, it's the 291 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:56.920 same same thing. 292 00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:59.960 So the fluidity and the and the I'm also here, 293 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:02.599 the unboundedness. 294 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:07.920 And the the the the expectation that as our sexuality, 295 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:10.920 as we become more in touch with ourselves, the way 296 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.160 we express our sexuality is going to evolve and grow 297 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.559 and change, and sometimes that's going to look like breaking 298 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:16.640 the boxes entirely. 299 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.599 Oh totally. It's so painful. 300 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:23.279 Yeah right, yeah, yeah, tell me about that. What's so 301 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:24.160 painful about that? 302 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.039 Grief? So I've heard grief described as love with nowhere 303 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:38.079 to go? Yeah, And when I think of, you know, 304 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.559 my own experience, this idea of like who I am 305 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:44.000 in the world or who I'm how people see me, 306 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:47.079 how I've showed up for people? You know how my 307 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.960 mom asks, can I still call you my daughter? 308 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:50.240 Right? 309 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:53.680 So there's like all these aspects where it's like, actually, 310 00:19:53.720 --> 00:20:02.039 I'm grieving this person that I'm not anymore, and that's 311 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:08.880 breaking through a box or the it's coming out. Yeah, 312 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:14.319 but yeah, it's not. It's yeah, there's a lot of 313 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.200 grief there, and there's aspects of that it's like, oh, actually, 314 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.440 maybe I didn't want to break through all of that. 315 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.359 Maybe there's this aspect that's still okay in my childhood 316 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.960 thinks name actually feels okay, but the rest of this doesn't. 317 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:33.160 And so like that's that's a heavy process. 318 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:35.759 Yeah, And as you're as you're sharing this, what's coming 319 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:40.519 to me is because of like it's it's unfathomable in 320 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.319 some ways to someone who is who identifies as cysts 321 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:46.680 and hat and it's you know, our brains are wired 322 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:52.680 in that way. So these beautiful and precious nuances of 323 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:55.519 as we are, you know, as you are becoming, as 324 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.839 you were shedding who you used to be and becoming 325 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:00.400 more of who you are now, as you're just grabbing 326 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.680 that grief in that process of letting go, and just 327 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:09.880 how how poignant and precious that is and how tender 328 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.559 and sacred, quite frank of that space is. And so 329 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.920 I'm also hearing like the imperative of having having queer 330 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:22.599 contra teachers to be able to have the resonance and 331 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.200 the relatability to be able to hold that space for 332 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.359 for our students as they go, because it's really a rebirthing. 333 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:34.200 Yeah, I mean, And people who do hormone replacement therapy 334 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:41.640 talk about their second puberty, so yeah, yeah, it is, 335 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:45.920 I mean. And interestingly, to draw a parallel, we become 336 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.880 different people throughout our lives all the time. Yeah, right, 337 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:50.599 Like you used to be a monk. 338 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:54.319 Yeah, I used to be a stripper too. I still 339 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:55.559 act like a stripper sometimes. 340 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.279 How many lives do we have? And so I think 341 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.279 that one of the as you know, the media doesn't 342 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:05.319 we we talked. The media talks a lot about trans 343 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:07.880 and queer people, but doesn't engage a ton with trans 344 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.960 and queer people. And the truth is the experience, not 345 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.079 the like socialized experience, but the I can only speak 346 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.640 for myself, but the truth is that experience is like 347 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:20.799 very similar to like you know, when I left LA 348 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.160 I moved to small town Montana. It was a different 349 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:25.960 kind of rebirthing. There was a different kind of reef there, 350 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.640 and this one just happens to be this other avenue 351 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.640 that people have all these like very socialized, intense normative 352 00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:39.160 scripts put on us children. But it's an experience I 353 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:41.279 think that everybody actually can relate to, and it's not 354 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:47.240 as foreign as to set people think or might think 355 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.440 it is. It's really you know, you're trying something else, 356 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:58.079 you're doing something else. Yeah, I think that gets conflated 357 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.319 and in fear because the passion is real. I don't 358 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.039 mean to say that this isn't real, right, but like 359 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:08.640 muh yeah, the experience, the experience of becoming should be 360 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:10.319 familiar to a lot of people. 361 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:16.240 Yeah, because it's a human experience, right, Yeah. Yeah. So 362 00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:20.720 then how can we as practitioners in the field of 363 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:25.400 TNDRA who who really who are committed and really want 364 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.440 to bring healing to all humans in all all expressions 365 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:33.440 of humanity? How can we demonstrate and provide and create 366 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:39.759 safer space for our queer brothers and sisters and siblings 367 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:40.839 and siblings. 368 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.880 So this is an interesting one. I there's a lot 369 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:51.519 of different language out there. I personally have been borrowing 370 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:56.799 from kink and using terms of pop and bottom mm hmm, 371 00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:01.240 to describe who's going to be, you know, sitting on 372 00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.640 someone's lap in the ab young position, or who's receiving 373 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:10.319 sensation and you know, a tounch of massage or something 374 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:16.359 like that. And then I tend to ask people what 375 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:21.000 they prefer to have their genitals called. Yeah, so not 376 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.799 assuming that somebody likes to have their vulva be called 377 00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:29.720 the vulva you know in specific medical situations. Maybe that's 378 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:35.599 appropriate in uh, some kind of emergent situation, but otherwise, 379 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.240 it's like there's a whole host of words out there. 380 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:45.039 I like to call mine my portal, and uh, what 381 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.599 else is there? A lot of it really is language. 382 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:51.640 So we're talking about masculine and feminine energies. I prefer 383 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.079 to like just stay away from those terms. And you 384 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:57.519 talk about I think you brought up earlier the form 385 00:24:57.559 --> 00:24:59.920 and energy and like what parts of you are full 386 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:03.240 and your energy and what's being expressed like this and 387 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.359 what's being expressed over here? And like actually, how much 388 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:12.640 more how much more space you're talking about expansiveness, how 389 00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:15.640 much more space? Using like we talk about nonviolent communication 390 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:21.200 and using these describing words, these intense like specific nuanced vocabulary, 391 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:23.519 more freedom. 392 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.039 Yeah, I hear that, And because it is like really 393 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.240 drilling down into what it is that you want to describe. 394 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:32.880 So in terms circling back to this whole concept of energy, 395 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:36.279 feminine energy versus masculine energy, Well, if we take the 396 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:39.839 time to really drill down into it, what are we describing? 397 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.839 So what are we talking about? 398 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.519 What are we talking about? Yeah, so the active, vital, 399 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.480 red energy is what comes to mind from me when 400 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.319 we say, you know, the in Tibetan, when we say 401 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.160