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Speaker 1: Wow, we got something we're in Greetings. Hello, shall we play?

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Speaker 2: Then?

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Speaker 3: Oh love to.

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Speaker 4: Let's play Global Thermo Nuclear War.

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Speaker 5: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't

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Be Serious Podcast. I am here with my friend Jason Coln. Jason,

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I got a story for you. Ready for this?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 5: Okay. In nineteen eighty three, heads of the military believed

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that a real nuclear attack was about to occur. They

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begin readying their nuclear forces, placing air units on alert,

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and loading nuclear warheads onto combat planes in preparation for war.

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And all of this was based upon a misinterpretation of

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what was a simulation, something they should have known was

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just a war game. You want to know what the

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plot twist is. Let's plot twist. This happened four months

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after the movie Wargames came out. This is real life

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plot twist. This is not the plot of the movie.

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This is the plot of real life a situation called

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the Able Archer eighty three incident, where NATO was conducting wargames.

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The Soviet Union was sure that it was all just

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a ruse, and they literally manned their lanes, loaded the

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nuclear warheads, and we came other than the Cuban missile crisis.

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We came closer to nuclear war at that moment, and

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nobody knew what was going on over here at all. Really,

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we're going to tell you more about this. That's incredible. Later.

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Speaker 3: Hey, wait, before you get any further, I still really

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enjoy How, like Gene Hackman, you say nuclear, I.

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Speaker 5: Knew it's gonna come. I can't help it. Nucular. I

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learned the word by watching Quest for Peace. That's how

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I know that word. That's why I say nu killar.

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Speaker 3: Okay, fantastic guys.

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Speaker 5: We are blessed to be joined by a very special

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guest today. We have a Patreon member of all things.

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He hit us up and he said love the show

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and I said great, you have any episodes you'd like

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to hear? And he said, I'd be great if I

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could hear an intelligent podcast about wargames and AI and

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that sort of thing. And I said, super, why don't

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you come do that for us? And so we are

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here today with doctor Chad Briggs, a global security expert.

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He advises global organizations on the intersection between climate change

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and national security. He has advised the US Department of State,

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the US Air Force, the Swedish military, the EU, the

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US Department of Energy, all kinds of other academic organizations.

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He's an intelligent guy, but an underachiever and alienated from parent.

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Oh wait a minute, I'm sorry. That was Matthew Brof.

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I gotta let you far there on that one. Chad.

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It is so wonderful to have you with us. Thank

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you for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, guys, glad to be here.

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Speaker 3: Chad. Would you say you're a little more Dabney Coleman

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or are you more General Barringer on this deal?

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Speaker 2: I'm more a professor Falkan.

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Speaker 3: Really awesome, nice, awesome, nice.

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Speaker 5: That is fantastic. So just to give you guys an

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idea of this notion of the intersection between national security

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and climate change. In April of twenty eleven, they are

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conducting wargame scenarios. It's a simulation. It is led by

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Air Force Colonel I'm not kidding, Wilbur Wright. What. Yes,

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he led the simulation. But the participants were presented with

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four different scenarios. One was that the Mexican government had collapsed.

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The other was that Iran was carrying out a nuclear test.

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The third was that China was taking control of the

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Spratley Islands in the South China Sea. And the fourth

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was the eruption of Mount Spur, the volcano in Alaska.

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And a lot of the officers laughed off this fourth

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option until a couple of days later when they realized

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that they couldn't see anything on the ground because all

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of the volcano ash had basically eliminated all of their

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aerial observation capabilities. And so that is kind of Chad's

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specialty is how does environmental change affect national security and

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potential warfare? Did I get that about right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean technically it was more they didn't want

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to fly through the ash clouds because that's really dangerous

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and if you're trying to get aircraft from North America, Asia,

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kind of hard to miss Alaska. So it just it

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just sort of threw off a lot of their assumptions

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about stuff. But yeah, it was trying to just insert

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ideas of well, you know, we always assume that environment

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it's there, it's a steady state. But what if it

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you know, what if we did it thrown a curveball

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and something happens you just don't expect.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So a few days into the scenario, real tornadoes

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and thunderstorm started happening in Alabama, and they're listening to

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news reports and one of the participants leans over to

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Chad and says, is this really happening or is this

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part of the simulation?

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately that was real. That was a huge outbreak

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of tornadoes that night. That was one of the things

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we shoot for, is for people just not to know

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necessarily if something's real or if it isn't. But that's

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also one of the most famous lines from wargames.

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Speaker 3: I was just gonna mention this. Today coincidentally is the

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forty third anniversary of the eruption of Mount Saint Helens. Oh, yeah,

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which I take would it'll be a big deal of

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satellite images and that type of thing.

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Speaker 5: So nineteen eighty the world becomes covered in ash yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And unfortunately I'm old enough to remember that.

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Speaker 3: I mean too. Today we're going to compare war games

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from nineteen eighty three to Tron from nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they were. It was the first time for a

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lot of folks to be seeing this type of stuff

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pretty accurately portrayed in a lot of circumstances. Obviously a

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lot of fantasy and Tron, but still had some components

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that were very cutting edge and brand new to the

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audiences that were watching them, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Chad, what are your memories of these two movies?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was in grade school. I think when these

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came out. Tron completely blew me away, you know, in

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terms of its vision of computers. It's it's computer graphics.

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I didn't quite understand the story, and we can get

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into that just because Blinton, the Jeff Bridges' character was

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already living the dream because he already owned an arcade,

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So what more could you get?

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Speaker 5: The right war games?

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Speaker 2: I remember, and you know, my brother and I were

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both into computers. He ended up getting a master's in

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computer science and where's the list alamos now? And this

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kind of inspired us a lot. But I didn't understand

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wargames until I was much older, and I understood the politics.

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Both of them sort of caught up to technology, but

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in really different ways. So they're they're they're really really

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influential for me. And of course I also remember the

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Tron arcade game I believe absolutely made more money than

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the movie itself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we absolutely have to talk about that.

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Speaker 5: By the way, Jason pointed this out and sure enough

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I saw it as you come in on David Lightman

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in that first arcade scene, as it pans across the arcade,

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you see very prominently the video game Tron.

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Speaker 3: Along with the much less influential Jungle Hunt game you

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didn't like Jungle Hut.

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Speaker 2: I like Jungle Hunts better Jungle Hunt than Tron.

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Speaker 5: The nerves that I would build up whenever I was

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having to fight those spiders, the spiders which were there

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spiders in the moon. Yeah, okay, they call them grid bugs,

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Oh right, right, the grid bugs. Okay, yeah, So it

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was just spiders to me that one. And then when

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you got a couple levels up, when you were diving

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into the Master Control rainbow spinny thing and it was

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going so fast and you were going so fast, anxiety

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to the max. But I would still shove my borders

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in for sure.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Yes, okay, which one we which one

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we're going to talk about first?

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Speaker 5: I'd say let's talk about war games first. Yeah, yeah,

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all right, see, let's sign up here up here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Con that indicates our current defense condition.

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Speaker 2: It should read the def con five.

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Speaker 5: Which means piece it's.

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Speaker 2: Still on four because of the little stunt you pulled.

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Speaker 3: Actually, if we hadn't caught it in time, it might

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have gone to def Con one.

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Speaker 5: You know what that means, David, No, what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: World War three?

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Speaker 5: Chad? Tell us, tell us what you know or you know,

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give us some information on how things went from the

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development of the movie war games to when you got

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involved yourself doing them, Like, what's what's kind of the

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history there? I talked a little bit earlier about the

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able Archer incident in eighty three, and part of what

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happened in that scenario was that they started using a

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lot of new technology. So what do you know? What

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do you know about what happened between nineteen eighty three

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and whenever you started participating live and in living color

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with true wargames simulations.

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Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you there were actually a couple

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other incidents too, and I will go into detail about it,

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But you have November nineteen seventy nine. That was another

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nuclear alert that was thrown off by someone mistakenly putting

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a training tape into the computer, which then was interpreted

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as being real because of course the computer doesn't know

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the difference.

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Speaker 5: That came up when they were writing the script for

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wargames because they began to question, you know, could this

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really happen? Would the military really not know what was

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going on in this situation? And literally turned on the

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news story and Walter Cronkite is saying, oh, for three minutes,

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we thought we were at the brink of nuclear war.

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And it turns out somebody just left a simulation tape

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inside the tape player.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and something similar happened the following summer. So June

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nineteen eighty, that was a computer glitch, but the people

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at NORAD suddenly saw thousands of nuclear missiles headed for

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the United States. I had to figure out is this

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real or not? Or is this just And turned out

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it was just the computer hiccupping and just throwing out

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odd radar returns that didn't actually exist.

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Speaker 3: Turns out Chad was just playing missile command in the

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next room.

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Speaker 5: So you guys, you and your brother were into computers.

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Did you do any you do any hacking back? Then

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try to sneak into any school.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I would never have done anything. Now, I was

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an overachiever in school, so I didn't have to change grades.

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But and I will say my junior high principle was

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pretty smart. Because he co opted me. I think he

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knew and this is like nineteen eighty six and I

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tay seven. So he was testing out some sort of

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new library system, you know, get the computer online at

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the school. This is the first time that they were

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really trying this, and so he invited me and said, hey,

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we want you to figure this out and whether it's

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worth doing. And it's sort of like I realized later, Okay,

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this is keep your enemies close closer. Yeah, right, and

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I know what they're up to. Yeah, I knew how

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to do those sorts of things because sometimes, I mean, honestly,

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it is so easy to break into computers sometimes some

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of the back doors, and you know what they don't

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address is that oftentimes it's just people making the mistakes.

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You know, well, either you're leaving the scenario tape in

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the computer or you just didn't put in the right password.

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So yeah, all those sorts of tricks we knew. And

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partly that's because when I started working on cybersecurity, you

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sort of have to know this, and I worked more

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on the human side of cybersecurity. It sort of inspired

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us just to sort of know how computers work. And

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maybe both movies inspired that because we were so taken

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in with this idea that hey, you can create programs

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and they're sort of like these little living things and

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they're yours and they're your identity, right and they live

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inside the computer. But the internet stuff I really didn't

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get into heavily until probably the mid nineties.

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Speaker 5: So Chad listened to our Best of eighty eight episode

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and said, boy, was I in an entirely different world

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as you guys were at that point. I made him

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send the list, but do you do you remember it?

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Do you know what your top five is from eighty

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h et Partly.

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Speaker 2: I was teasing you, guys. I thought you were sending

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me emails asking about albums by Poison, So why didn't

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I just throw in Melissa Athringe and see what you

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guys think. I don't know. It's a transition time, partly

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for me because I was leaving the US, and I

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think partly for music too, because eighty eight you start

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getting Millie Vanilli. By eighty nine you've got what new

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kids on the block? Yeah, boy bands. So when I

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looked at my computer, all the music from the eighties

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that I had, and like the compilation files that I'll

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have or it'd be like, you know, best of nineteen

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eighty five for one hour, it stops in nineteen eighty seven.

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By that point I was just cut off. I just

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I had no connection to it anymore. And you know,

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I went to Europe and to started listening to seventies music.

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That's what everyone is listening to.

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Speaker 5: So you were you were in Europe around that time,

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and you mentioned something about I think in an email

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to us about Aha. Yeah, listen to your episode because

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you're calling them heavy wonder you guys.

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Speaker 2: For you guys to say that Alha was a one

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hit wonder was for anyone who's ever lived in Norway,

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you know, it's sort of heresy personally, I like the

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sun always shines on TV better than take on me.

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Speaker 5: Wow, it's all about where you were, That's right, That's

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true what you were doing at the time, at the

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risk of forgetting to do this before we're done with

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our day, and at the risk of somebody calling me

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away and I don't get to ask this question. On

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one of your very first emails, I asked you how

261
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you came across us. You said you're looking for eighties podcast.

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You came across our Toto episode really got engaged with

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our Dirty Dancing the album episode, and you mentioned I

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won't name a specific country at the risk of offending somebody,

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but there's a country over in Europe that the military

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has a strange fascination and love affair with the movie

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Dirty Dancing. You give me more details, please.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I won't say the particular country, but I will

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say there's more than one country. I won't say it's

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the entire military. I just know people in the military

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you have a strange affiliation with it. But yeah, that

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movie resonates. I mean, you guys said on your Dirty

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Dancing podcast that that was the highest selling album ever

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in Germany and it did a thriller in Germany, and

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being a good professor, I had to go up and

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look it up, and yeah, it was true. But I

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think it resonated with people in a way, you know,

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because in the US, we had this idea of nostalgia

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for this sort of innocent time in the US the

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early sixties, and so Lucas gave us American graffiti. But

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Americans wouldn't care about a bunch of teenage kids driving

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around Medesto all night, right, But they had Dirty Dancing,

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which which is innocent America. It's the sort of America

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that they wanted to believe in. And the music I

285
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think really helped that so much because it was it

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was this sort of missimash of you know, fifties and

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sixties and even stuff from the eighties that they just loved,

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you know, and have a movie in a soundtrack start

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with the run ats like that. I think it was

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just intoxicating for so many people.

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Speaker 5: Did I tell you that Chad has driven his bike

292
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not once, but twice up to the resort where they

293
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filmed Dirty Dancing in Virginia? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Man, that's awesome. I love that, Jason Is.

295
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Speaker 2: It's actually a semi famous mountain for cyclists because it's

296
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a really tough one to climb, especially to the backside.

297
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But yeah, the first time I got up there, I

298
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didn't even know where I was and I looked around.

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It's like, wait a second.

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Speaker 3: That's the staircase the baby danced on it.

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Speaker 5: Fantastic.

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Speaker 3: That's awesome. Okay, So we want to get in the

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origin story of wargames.

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Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, sure, Okay. So Wargames starts off with Lawrence Lasker.

305
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He gets fascinated with a guy we've all heard of

306
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at this point named Stephen Hawking, who is less famous

307
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at that point in the general world, but was super

308
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famous in the science world, and also is interested in

309
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the fact that he has als and this idea that

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this you know, genius who could potentially come up with

311
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the theory of everything might not be able to commute

312
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indicated to us, and so he thinks, Okay, I want

313
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to have a story where this older genius finds this

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younger genius that he can communicate with. And that's how

315
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this story gets passed along by the way. Side note,

316
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the meeting that he had in mind was supposed to

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be the old geniuses in his mechanical wheelchair sitting on

318
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a pier trying, you know, fishing, and the young kid

319
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walks up from behind, and when he turns around, the

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old man is John Lennon.

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Speaker 3: That would have been amazing to see John Lennon in

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this role.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And obviously, unfortunately, I mean wise, it didn't work out.

324
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It did not work out. There were a couple of

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different important assassination attempts, and unfortunately John Lennon's was a success.

326
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So anyway, Lawrence Lasker has this idea he calls up

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his college roommate whose name is Walter Parks, and they

328
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start working together on this script and they spent this

329
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is seventy nine or so. They spend quite a bit

330
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of time developing this genius master and genius student story.

331
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They had this idea that he's going to be thirteen

332
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year old kid at California Berkeley, which sounds like real

333
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genius to me.

334
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Speaker 3: It does sound like real genius.

335
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Speaker 5: I don't know if they like snag that idea and

336
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redid it with real genius or not, but that's what

337
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it's sounded like anyway. At some point in this process

338
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they meet a very famous guy named Peter Schwartz. Peter

339
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Schwartz is what we call a futurist, and that just

340
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means he's like looking at different analytical models and trying

341
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to predict what's going to happen in certain fields in

342
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the future. And he says, hey, you know, computer games

343
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are getting really popular right now. And I don't know

344
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if you guys have looked at this, but those computer

345
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games really seem to resemble the same screen images that

346
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you see over at Norad with all of their war

347
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models on there. Of course, that's a little light bulb

348
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for both of them all say this is great. How

349
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do we combine these ideas right? And then of course

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they start getting interested in the hacker culture, which it's

351
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starting to really ramp up at this point. And Lawrence

352
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Lasker has a friend from Yale named Ron Rosenbaum who

353
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writes this article called The Subterranean World of the Bomb

354
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and talks about these military simulations that go on that

355
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are basically like games. They think, Wow, if you know,

356
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if only we could get into Nord and look around

357
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and see what it's like in there, we'd really have

358
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some meat for our story. Well, as it turns out,

359
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Norrad actually invites Hollywood types out. I'm watching the movie

360
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and I'm like, there's no way. There is no freaking

361
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way they're going to have a guided tour in the

362
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middle of the war games simulations.

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Speaker 3: The bus from Birmingham.

364
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Speaker 5: Turns out they do. Turns out they do. That's incredible,

365
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So they get they managed to get themselves out to Norad.

366
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They're going on this tour. They're about to get back

367
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on the bus and this guy named General Hardinger stops

368
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them and says, boys, I hear you're writing a story

369
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about me, and they're like, uh yeah. He goes, well,

370
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let's go, let's go talk, let's go have some drinks.

371
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And they're like, well, we got to get back on

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the bus. And he goes, I's got forty three men

373
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under my command right now, I think I can get

374
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you back to your hotel. And so they go with

375
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him and start talking about things, and it turns out

376
00:19:08,759 --> 00:19:11,359
very similar to the character that they develop. He feels

377
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that it is vital that human beings have some sort

378
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of involvement with the decision to set a nuclear strike

379
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into play. You got any info on that, Chad, I mean,

380
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,279
could it happen that there is no human involvement?

381
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Speaker 2: Well, it's it's kind of tricky. I mean if you

382
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,799
think back to the plots for fail Safe and Doctor Strangelove,

383
00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:35,519
right which her influences on wargame, and they're both on

384
00:19:35,599 --> 00:19:39,599
this idea of accidental nuclear war that in Doctor Strangelove

385
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,359
you get a general who just goes crazy and sets

386
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,440
off an attack that he shouldn't and fail Safe they

387
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:48,759
mistakenly think that a civilionaire liner is a bomber, and

388
00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:51,960
bombers get sent off to Moscow. That they can't control.

389
00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:53,759
All these strategies have been based on this idea of

390
00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:57,039
launch on warning, so you don't wait until the bombs

391
00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:59,480
actually hit before you launch your own missiles, right, But

392
00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:01,519
that means you have to rely upon what the computers

393
00:20:01,559 --> 00:20:03,799
are telling you. So you don't have plane spotters out

394
00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:06,400
there in Alaska actually just looking for the missiles. You're

395
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,960
relying upon radars and satellites to tell you that something's happening.

396
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,200
But they can be wrong, right, So it's always it's

397
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,240
always a bit fantastical to begin with that. Okay, whatever

398
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,039
you see on the screen is just what the computer's

399
00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:20,839
telling you is on the screen, and you have to

400
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,519
trust that, right. So, yeah, there always had to be

401
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,599
some sort of control there, right, The two keys that

402
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,559
you saw famously at the first scene, that you've seen

403
00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:32,880
in other movies too, like Crimson Tide, and that's always

404
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,519
been there both for the US and the Soviets precisely

405
00:20:35,559 --> 00:20:38,240
because they always knew that. Well, you can't always trust

406
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,640
what the computer is seeing because the computer can't make

407
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,400
judgments on whether something's real or not.

408
00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 3: Crimson Die is a great reference, by the way. I

409
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,880
love that movie. Yeah, they get the message to launch

410
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,720
and then it's sort of corrupted or incomplete and they

411
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,200
have to decide no, this is a partial message. No,

412
00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:55,000
this is the real message. We need to launch. No,

413
00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:55,880
we don't need a launch.

414
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think there's an actual historical event that's related

415
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,440
to that as well. Was I think a similar situation Maybe.

416
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:04,599
I think it was the Soviets though, but it was

417
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,319
that incomplete message, and like, I think they had three

418
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,400
guys who had to do something, and two of the

419
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,880
three were like, we're doing it, and one guy was

420
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,359
a holdout and averted a nuclear catastrophe because of it,

421
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:16,839
Thank god.

422
00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 2: If that's the Petrov incident, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there

423
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,240
was a colonel by the name of Sanslow Petrov, and

424
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:27,200
he was in charge of this early warning system that

425
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:28,880
had been set up by the Soviets. It was a

426
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satellite system to watch for missile launches from the United States.

427
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,039
And he got this report from the satellites that there

428
00:21:35,039 --> 00:21:37,960
were missiles being launched. They couldn't exactly tell it was

429
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,680
maybe five missiles, and his protocol, right his checklist, said

430
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,759
you need to report this. It's not a judgment. You're

431
00:21:45,759 --> 00:21:47,759
just a lieutenant colonel. You're just supposed to report it

432
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:49,599
up the chain of command. And then things get moving,

433
00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:52,319
but he knew that the system was kind of glitchy.

434
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:55,599
He knew that, well, the US wouldn't attack US with

435
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,680
just a couple of missiles, they would attack with thousands

436
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,440
of missiles. So he refused to he refused to report it,

437
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,880
and of course he didn't tell anyone for a long

438
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,079
time because he would have gotten into trouble. But if

439
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:08,960
that had gone on, and you have to remember the context,

440
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:13,440
nineteen eighty three was a really really bad time between

441
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,039
the US and the Soviets. So September of nineteen eighty three,

442
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,240
the Soviets had just shut down Korean airliner, you know,

443
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:22,160
the Korean airliners seven forty seven, and only three weeks

444
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,240
later this happened, you know, this Petrov incident. And then

445
00:22:25,319 --> 00:22:28,519
only three weeks after that was the instant the able

446
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,519
Archer that you were mentioning earlier, right, which also coincidentally

447
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:35,079
was the same week that Wargames was released in West Germany.

448
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,759
Speaker 5: Wow, that's cool.

449
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 3: It's cool.

450
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,039
Speaker 2: Life imitating art right.

451
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 5: Well, And just to finish the story, like Reagan has

452
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,759
come in. I mean we for twenty years things have

453
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,759
kind of been cooling down, and the Reagan comes in

454
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:51,160
and turns the heat up to hide. He calls them

455
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,240
the Evil Empire. They start engaging in some serious psyops,

456
00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:57,559
which when I watched the When I was watching the

457
00:22:57,599 --> 00:23:00,519
documentary and John Badam was talking about how changed the

458
00:23:00,599 --> 00:23:03,680
name of the computer from Psyop to Whopper, He's like,

459
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,279
Syop doesn't make any sense. I'm like, it makes perfect

460
00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:10,160
sense because it's psychological operations. But okay, anyway, so they're

461
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,039
doing and I love this. So what the US would

462
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,559
do is they would have these planes, these attack planes,

463
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:22,240
fly straight for Soviet airspace, and at the very last second,

464
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:24,839
right before they enter the space, they would veer off.

465
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,440
It was the global thermal nuclear war equivalent of I'm

466
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,880
not touching you. I'm not touching you. Really, it's fantastic.

467
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,000
And so that is why the Soviets were at the

468
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:37,960
top of their paranoia. They were completely afraid of what's

469
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,400
going on. And so Norad is doing these real wargame simulations.

470
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,400
They add all these other components, and the Russians think

471
00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:48,480
this is a ruse, this is a fake. They're really

472
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:52,359
about to attack, and they literally put everything in place

473
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:58,640
to begin their retaliatory strike. Before the first US missiles hit, I.

474
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 3: Could just sear Maverick can go saying we can't shoot

475
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,640
this son of event. You might as well have fun

476
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:04,559
with him.

477
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, once things get started, it's hard to stop.

478
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,039
So during the Kuban missile crisis, Kennedy told all of

479
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:13,519
his advisors Street the Guns of August by Barbara Tuckman,

480
00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:15,759
because that talked about the start of World War One.

481
00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:18,279
And once you get things started, you can't back down.

482
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,359
It's really tough, just because organizationally, things get move in

483
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,359
and once someone starts firing, other people start firing back.

484
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,160
It's like being in a boxing match. Well, you know,

485
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,119
when someone punches you, you got punched back even a little

486
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:29,599
bit harder.

487
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, we didn't, Like I said, we didn't even know

488
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,920
that this had occurred. We did not know that the

489
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,720
Soviets were about to Nucas out of existence until like

490
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,039
almost two years later. There was a Soviet double agent

491
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,920
named Olegg Ordievsky. He was a double agent, and eventually

492
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,759
they figured out that he was a double agent and

493
00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:51,000
they were about to They sneak in, they get him

494
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:53,200
back out, and he's the one that tells them, hey,

495
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,839
this is how close everybody came beginning annihilated.

496
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,079
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sitting there playing with my Transformers and listening

497
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,839
to Michael Jackson. I was about to be glowing in

498
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:02,240
the dark.

499
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 5: I never learned to swim.

500
00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 2: I mean, people were scared them The Europeans remember the

501
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,440
Euromissile Crisis in nineteen eighty three, it's what they're referred

502
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,680
to it. And by then Threads had already been released

503
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,880
in the UK, right, which was the UK equivalent of

504
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,599
The Day After Tomorrow, and that was a pretty brutal movie.

505
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,000
You can find that, I think on YouTube these days.

506
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:24,720
But then I think it was nineteen eighty three. That

507
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,880
was when Day After Tomorrow came out in the US,

508
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,079
and that scared the hell out of me as a kid.

509
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,119
I mean, that's what I remember that more than wargames

510
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,960
at least be first interesting.

511
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so the company that put Wopper, you know,

512
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,599
the US military that put Wopper into play obviously didn't

513
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,160
work out at the end of War Games, so Cyberdine

514
00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:47,920
perfected that a few years later, and then Skynet and

515
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,559
I'm just kidding. Actually there's a lot of similarities here

516
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:54,119
between the Terminator franchise and wargames.

517
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 5: I think I don't know why we're talking about all

518
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,559
this old stuff. Why don't we talk about something that's

519
00:25:57,599 --> 00:25:58,359
relevant today.

520
00:25:58,519 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, So, okay, computers would never tell us what.

521
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,839
Speaker 5: To do exactly. There's no way that they can actually

522
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,039
learn and be intelligent. So the guys who are writing wargames,

523
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,240
Parks and Laskar, they have hit up this guy named

524
00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:15,599
Leonard Goldberg. He's a producer. He's like, hey, go write

525
00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:18,160
the script. After a year of waiting, he's like, I said,

526
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,599
write it, not carve it in stone. Let's get something.

527
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:25,480
But he's expecting this genius mentor to genius student story

528
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,400
that they proposed to him. So a little while later,

529
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:30,440
ficretary comes in and says, well, they didn't write the

530
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,200
story they said they're going to write, but they wrote

531
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,319
this war movie instead. He's like war movie. And then

532
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,799
she's like, why don't you just read it? We got it.

533
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:40,559
It's something, And he reads it and says, thank you

534
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:43,559
for an awesome weekend. It is a fantastic story. Yeah.

535
00:26:43,599 --> 00:26:46,680
So he shops it around to various studios, gets turned

536
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,759
down repeatedly, ends up that United Artist MGM says, yes,

537
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,480
we're willing to do this, and that is what we

538
00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:59,039
call a green light. Okay, so war Games came out first.

539
00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:02,119
We're going back in time now a year before when

540
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:02,839
Tron came.

541
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 4: Out nineteen eighty two.

542
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 5: Nineteen eighty two, so earlier than that, I'm going to

543
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,640
go back to let's say seventy six. This guy named

544
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,960
Stephen Lisberger is a aspiring animation artist. Has even put

545
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,559
together a little studio of his college friends, about five people,

546
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,319
called Lisburger Studios. He gets introduced to this new crazy

547
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,880
invention called.

548
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 3: Pong pong that's mind blowing.

549
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he is inspired. He is like, holy crap,

550
00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:52,319
I gotta make a movie about video games.

551
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: Hey, let's talk about that for just a second.

552
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:54,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

553
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: So if you're younger than we are, you don't really

554
00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:00,960
grasp how mind blowing that pong was. At that time.

555
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:04,880
The idea that you could actually compete using electronics on

556
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,359
a TV screen was unbelievable at the time.

557
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:12,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were so many quarters wasted invested investment in

558
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:17,200
time that was training training. Atari even called that special Olympics, right,

559
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:18,319
video Olympics.

560
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,599
Speaker 3: When I was growing up, my church had a gym

561
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,880
and a little ping pong area. We had space invaders,

562
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,359
we had asteroids, and we had Donkey Kong guess what

563
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,000
I did all the time?

564
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 5: Redchid Bibelin prayed, no, that would be interorrect.

565
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 3: I played a crap ton of Donkey Kong.

566
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 5: Gotcha? Gotcha, Chad? Did you have an Atari growing up?

567
00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:43,359
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, we had an Atari twenty six hundred.

568
00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:44,559
Speaker 3: You Yes, of course.

569
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:50,039
Speaker 5: So Pong Breakout, eventually Pitfall, which was to me the

570
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:51,759
Atari game of all Atari games.

571
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: Eventually Tron Deadly Discs was an incredible twenty six hentred game.

572
00:28:56,279 --> 00:28:58,759
Speaker 5: So I know we're going to talk about, uh, we're

573
00:28:58,759 --> 00:29:00,480
going to talk about the video game here in a

574
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,599
little bit. But yes, the Deadly disc was supposed to

575
00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:06,799
be a part of the original game. They didn't even

576
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:09,160
have time to get it done. That's okay. Four games

577
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,119
was plenty for me. Unfortunately, it comes out right at

578
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,519
the time that video games are starting to the bubble

579
00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:15,400
is starting to burst.

580
00:29:15,559 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: I don't care that Tron. The black light from that

581
00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:21,359
video game and the music, the windy Carlos music blaring

582
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,279
through the arcade. I put a million dollars worth of

583
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:27,240
quarters of that game myself. Love that game.

584
00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:30,079
Speaker 5: So Liz Burger is inspired by Pong. He thinks, okay,

585
00:29:30,119 --> 00:29:33,440
how can I do Pong combined with Alice in Wonderland

586
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,599
and the wheels start turning right. But he is an animator,

587
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,000
he is not a live movie producer. And in nineteen

588
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,400
seventy nine he gets ten thousand dollars from AFI a

589
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,839
grant from them to a seven minute short film and

590
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,759
it involves animals competing in the Olympics. And the name

591
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:57,359
of the show is Animal Olympics. Yeah, very creative Animal Olympics.

592
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,880
That one does well enough that NBC decides to fund

593
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,599
a full film, which is a seven figure budget. He

594
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,559
leaves Boston, goes out to California with his partner and

595
00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:12,960
they start working on this full fledged Animal Olympics movie.

596
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,240
Go ahead, I got something for you that you skipped over. Okay.

597
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,599
Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy three, he won the Student Academy Award

598
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:24,720
for a little short film called Cosmic Cartoon where a

599
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:29,440
gladiator throws glowing discs. In nineteen seventy three.

600
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 5: Oh wow, that's solid, dude. I gotta tell you. I

601
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,960
saw that he won that thing. I'm like, it's too much,

602
00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:37,880
I'm gonna cut that out. I did not realize that

603
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,680
the game actually comes into DirectPlay. That's disks fantastic. So

604
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,039
he ends up producing two thirty minute parts, a Animal

605
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:51,119
Olympics Winter Games and an Animal Olympics Summer Games, but

606
00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:55,759
only the Winter Games gets aired on NBC because the

607
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,759
Soviets come into play again. They invade Afghanistan, and the

608
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,400
US boycotts the Olympics, and so they are taking all

609
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,519
Olympic related things off of the boob tube. And so

610
00:31:08,759 --> 00:31:11,640
he's got these two pieces, only one of which the

611
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,799
rest of the world has seen. Fortunately, he gets a

612
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,559
deal with HBO, puts those two parts together, adds about

613
00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:22,920
another thirty minutes of additional footage, and it airs exclusively

614
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,599
on HBO and gains a cult following. And I got

615
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,200
to say, I remember I looked at the pictures here

616
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,559
and I remember this cartoon. I remember seeing this on HBO.

617
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,039
I feel like there's a naked lion in there somewhere,

618
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:39,039
like a naked female lion, anamorphic thing. Yeah, that had

619
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:41,200
been a reason for me to remember it, But this

620
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,559
nineteen eighty what are you going to do? So interestingly,

621
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,200
one of the animators on this series, Brad Bird Get

622
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:51,279
out of Here? No, Yeah, brad Bird. One of his

623
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,880
very first credits is he is an animator on the

624
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,400
Animal Olympics. Also you had. The voices of the characters

625
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,559
were Gilda Radner, Billy Chris, and Perry Shearer.

626
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, that's fantastic. By the way, flashback to our

627
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,079
best movie since two thousand episode right, Well, we talked

628
00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:11,440
extensively about The Incredibles.

629
00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, because you picked it as number one because

630
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,039
it's best movie since two thousand. Well, Okay, I don't

631
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:17,480
know if I agree with you there, but we'll keep

632
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:20,000
on going. Okay, okay, So why am I telling you

633
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,480
about animallypics when we're here to talk about Tron Because

634
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,079
the opening studio credits marked the very first appearance of

635
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,839
the character Tron. At this point, it was a mascot

636
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:35,000
for Lisberger's company, and it was more like an electric light,

637
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,799
and it was yellow instead of blue. Okay, but do

638
00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:39,720
you know where the name Tron comes from?

639
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:41,079
Speaker 3: Electron?

640
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, electronics, Electronics. This is the Tron in the middle

641
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,799
of electronics. That is it. It's awesome. So the original

642
00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:52,559
Tron character actually looked like the Cylons from Battlestar Galactica. Yes,

643
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:53,799
if they had a beard like it was a big

644
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,160
bearded guy with that kind of look about him.

645
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: You're talking about the appearance of these things the appearance

646
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,720
of the characters in the movie Tron. You know why,

647
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:05,839
Jeff Ridges has a little skirt type of thing that

648
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:06,319
he wears.

649
00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 5: He literally Morgan was in the movie with him in

650
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:11,720
her own tight little outfit.

651
00:33:12,039 --> 00:33:17,599
Speaker 3: Basically, yes, to keep the film modest. Apparently, Jeff Bridges

652
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,799
is uh, he's the Huey Lewis of the movie world. Huh.

653
00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 2: It was a Disney film by then, his deadly disc

654
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,480
was showing a little too much, so they had to

655
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,039
cover him up.

656
00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:31,039
Speaker 5: That's hilarious. Hey, Jason, I was gonna tell you there's

657
00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:34,480
another podcast that's covered Tron recently that you should go

658
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:34,960
check out.

659
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, what is it?

660
00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:38,559
Speaker 5: So the name of the podcast is the All Eighties

661
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:39,519
Movies Podcast.

662
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bill and Jason. There are good buddies over there.

663
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,200
Oh yeah, you know, yeah I do.

664
00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:46,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, they do great stuff. They've just covered Tron. Be

665
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,519
sure and go and check out their episode on Tron.

666
00:33:48,839 --> 00:33:52,920
That is the All Eighties Movies podcast available on all

667
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:53,720
streaming platform.

668
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. In fact, they did The Outsiders and Tron recently,

669
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,200
so we're kind of crossing past a couple different ways. Yeah,

670
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:01,319
definitely go check him out. There are good friends over there,

671
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:02,720
all eighties movie podcast.

672
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 5: So they planned to use the money that they had

673
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,880
borrowed against the anticipated profits of Animal Olympics to develop

674
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,639
the storyboards for Tron. But then this article appears in

675
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,440
Variety magazine and this guy named Alan Kay sees the article.

676
00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:23,480
Alan Kay reads this article in Variety, and Alan Kay,

677
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,639
if you don't know who he is, is a pioneer

678
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:30,159
of the computer world. He is a computer scientist. He

679
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,480
is responsible largely for the object oriented programming and the

680
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:39,559
windy wing graphical user interface that Xerox came up with

681
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:42,719
that you know, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs stole the

682
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,960
ideas from. He's a mastermind of computers.

683
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: He sees this.

684
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 5: Little article in Variety and he calls up Steve Lisberger

685
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,039
and says, I want you to make me a consultant

686
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:56,519
on your movie. And he's like okay, and he goes

687
00:34:56,599 --> 00:34:59,199
and also, you don't need to do this hand drawn

688
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,960
animation stuff. You can do the animation with computers. And

689
00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:07,119
so that's how in nineteen eighty two we get one

690
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:10,079
of the very first uses of CGI.

691
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's incredible. You know, when I watched this movie,

692
00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:16,800
there's some effects that are a little hookey for today,

693
00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:20,360
but back in nineteen eighty two, this was mind blowing stuff.

694
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:21,079
Speaker 5: Yeah.

695
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: For them to have a computer that had two megabytes

696
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,119
of around, I mean that's nothing now, but back then

697
00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:29,559
it was just Yeah, it was mind blowing. And certain

698
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:32,599
scenes like the light cycles, you know, still kind of

699
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:33,159
holds up.

700
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,639
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the light cycle stuff is incredible.

701
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: And back then though, it was just beyond belief.

702
00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 5: It's amazing. I mean there was nothing like it at

703
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:42,280
the time at all.

704
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: I'll use more stories than that to make this podcast,

705
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,159
to make a phone call.

706
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. So Steve Lisberger has been working with this

707
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,360
friend of his name de Bonnie mcbird. She's an actress,

708
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:58,039
and so she starts working on him with the story.

709
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,280
Alan Ka comes into the project and she develops the

710
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:08,199
character Alan the creator of trone after Alan Kay yes,

711
00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:12,519
and she suggests Robin Williams as the Flynn character because

712
00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:15,079
she wants him to be fun and kind of crazy,

713
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:18,280
and so she gets credit in this as the story

714
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,119
by They definitely worked on the story together and Alan

715
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,679
Kay was heavily involved. But basically there's maybe one line

716
00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:28,679
in the whole thing that she composed that ends up

717
00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:30,480
in the movie, and later on they end up having

718
00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:33,079
kind of a bitter, kind of legal battle about writing

719
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:35,559
credits for the movie, but turns out okay for her

720
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:39,000
in the end because she and Alan Kay become so

721
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:41,960
close that they actually end up getting married and have

722
00:36:42,039 --> 00:36:43,280
been married.

723
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, that's fantastic.

724
00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:49,639
Speaker 5: So they develop the script. They get rejected by a

725
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:53,480
great many studios who just don't get it, but they

726
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:55,360
ultimately get picked up by Disney.

727
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, in fairness, I didn't really get it in

728
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,119
nineteen eighty two either, but one company that did was Disney.

729
00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:03,400
They decided to do it. Now, this is a time

730
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:06,400
when Disney is kind of feeling their way out of

731
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,119
the seventies. They're trying to branch out do more live

732
00:37:09,159 --> 00:37:13,280
action stuff. They've swung and missed three times, like swung

733
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,639
hard and missed The Black Hole, Yeah, which I liked

734
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:19,320
as a kid, but it wasn't Star Wars.

735
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,639
Speaker 2: In fairness, nothing could be Star Wars but Hole. I

736
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:27,320
asked so many questions of my poor mom of astrophysics

737
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,719
and cosmology that eventually it did help inspire me to

738
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,039
actually study the physics.

739
00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 3: But okay, it was your mother a physicist or was

740
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,320
she just the person.

741
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:38,159
Speaker 5: In the room that knew more than you.

742
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: She was just the poor person who had taken me

743
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:42,679
to the movie, and I expected her to know these things.

744
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: Why is the robot in hell?

745
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 5: Mom?

746
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,519
Speaker 3: What the heck is going on here? That movie scared

747
00:37:48,519 --> 00:37:49,719
the crap out of me as a kid.

748
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: That one scene, Maximilian still Ranks is one of the

749
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,840
really toughest robots they've ever created.

750
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:56,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt. So.

751
00:37:56,679 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 5: It was a swing in the miss in the seventies,

752
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,920
but we still like it today. Yeah, okay, what else

753
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,000
you got? What are there other three?

754
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 3: The other swing of miss is another movie called Midnight Madness.

755
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:09,920
I remember it, Chad, Nope, never heard of it, okay,

756
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,519
all right. And the other was a movie that I

757
00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:14,440
actually saw the trailer for. I remember watching it in

758
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,679
the theater. It may have been when I saw a

759
00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:23,480
black hole. It's called The Watcher in the Woods. Yeah,

760
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,800
well it kind of it is like a it's kind

761
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,960
of a ghost story for for Disney. Betty Davis was in.

762
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:30,519
I think it may have been her one of her

763
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:35,440
last movies. Anyway, all three of those tanked, and Disney

764
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,039
was still trying to find the way. So they say, okay, yeah,

765
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:40,599
we'll do your video game movie. That sounds cool. They

766
00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:43,599
read the script, they punted it back to him and said, hey,

767
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,519
we like what you're doing here. There's some religious aspects

768
00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:48,599
to this story. This is stuff I never picked up

769
00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:50,840
on at the time, the idea of do you believe

770
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,159
in users? How would I get here if there's not

771
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,920
a user? So there's there's some spiritual aspects to this.

772
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,679
I talked about that, yeah, for sure, and Disney actually

773
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,559
wanted to emphasize those, right, So they punted it back

774
00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:03,960
to him, says, bring more on this. They bring in

775
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:07,679
Wendy Carlos to do the music. Wendy Carlos had done

776
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,280
a clockwork Orange and the.

777
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 5: Shining fantastic soundtrack like that may be the best feature

778
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:16,480
of the whole movie. That and the animation might be

779
00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:18,440
the two top features of the movie.

780
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 3: Well, and I know the music so well from the

781
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,280
video game. Right, you walk in an arcade, you can

782
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,239
hear Wendy Carlos down the hall. There's Tron way over there.

783
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,039
And then you also have two Journey songs on this soundtrack.

784
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:31,199
Speaker 5: That's right, They're barely there, but they're there.

785
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:35,639
Speaker 3: You know why the Journey was picked because Supertramp was unavailable.

786
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,920
I'm not kidding. I like Super Trimp, but this is

787
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,960
the most interesting thing to me. So you talked about

788
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,760
how they're when they shot this, they're in colorless bodysuits.

789
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,719
There's no blue glowing nothing. It's white and black, and

790
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,239
there's no life to it when they film it. And

791
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,800
they add all that of course later. But this was

792
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,559
originally scheduled for a Christmas nineteen eighty two release, okay,

793
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:04,119
but Don Bluth had left Disney and taken a bunch

794
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,519
of animators with them to go create this thing called

795
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:11,280
The Secret of Nim, right, and Disney was pissed about

796
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,440
that and said, let's go head to head and go

797
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:17,239
kick the Secret of Nim's butt, okay, and so they

798
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,639
moved it to the summer of eighty two. Well, the

799
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,440
problem was the summer of eighty two, and we've already

800
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,159
discussed it in a three part podcast that we did, right,

801
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,320
was you were up against Blade Runner, the Thing Star

802
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,960
Trek to the Rathakon Pultergeist, but really et Et and

803
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,559
that was sort of the death blow for all these

804
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:40,679
movies and really was not a brilliant move by Disney.

805
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:43,679
Speaker 2: Jason didn't didn't a lot of the Disney animators refuse

806
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:44,320
to work on this.

807
00:40:44,599 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 3: That's interesting. What do you got for me on that?

808
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 5: I don't know.

809
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of the animators didn't want to work

810
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,679
on it because, just like today, they thought that, well,

811
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,360
if you computerize everything, then we're out of jobs. So

812
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:57,880
you know, they viewed this just like we view AI

813
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:01,280
art nowadays as well, this is just really stealing our stuff.

814
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,599
And later on, of course, the Academy Awards refused to

815
00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:07,519
even consider them for special effects because they said that

816
00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:10,199
using computers for special effects is cheating.

817
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:12,199
Speaker 3: That's amazing, right.

818
00:41:13,039 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 2: One other thing I can mention about black Hole was

819
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,000
that the opening credits for black Hole, where you see

820
00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:22,960
the sort of grid system and everything, that was the

821
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,360
first use in a movie of computer animation.

822
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,519
Speaker 3: Really. Yeah, so Disney's pioneering this stuff. So no wonder

823
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:30,880
they're interested in tront.

824
00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: They did, they did have some experience with it.

825
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 3: Wow, that makes me want to go back and watch

826
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,679
black Hole. Maybe we should cover the black Hole.

827
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,159
Speaker 5: We should cover the black Hole. I think that's a

828
00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:39,679
great idea.

829
00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: Maximilian goes to Hill.

830
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:48,639
Speaker 1: Greetings yesterday same was interrupted, although primary go pass not

831
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:54,000
yet being achieved. Solution this near game time denapsed. That's

832
00:41:54,199 --> 00:42:00,599
one dollars twelve minutes fifty seconds estimated time remaining two

833
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,440
as seventeen meets.

834
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:09,119
Speaker 2: Ten is the primary goal.

835
00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: To win the game.

836
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 5: Okay, so they've gotten the green light for war games,

837
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,800
and so now they need a director. Lawrence Lasker knew

838
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:26,760
this guy from college named Martin Brest, Yes, happened to

839
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,320
be absolutely on fire at the moment as a new

840
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,440
upcoming director, and so he gives him a call. Martin

841
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,800
Brest says, I'm in, and they've got to go right.

842
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,840
They've got a fantastic director. The only problem is is

843
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,320
that Martin is wanting to take this script in a

844
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,800
much darker place than Lawrence and Walter had intended it

845
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,719
for to go. So yeah, so they end up arguing

846
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,239
quite a bit about what should be done with various things.

847
00:42:57,559 --> 00:43:00,000
Martin is adding a lot to the script and manipul

848
00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:02,960
relating a lot of things, and at some point they're

849
00:43:03,199 --> 00:43:05,519
in an argument. Lawrence and Walter are in an argument

850
00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:08,400
with Martin on the phone, back and forth, back and forth,

851
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,440
back and forth, and finally Martin is like, you know what,

852
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,320
it's okay, don't worry about it. It's good. We're all

853
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,679
good and they hang up the phone and they said, Walter

854
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,760
said to Lawrence, it's all done. I think we might

855
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,480
have just gotten fired. And sure enough, within the next

856
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:27,559
hour they get a call from their agent and they said,

857
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,079
you're off the picture. And so this is pretty hard blow.

858
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:33,480
I mean, they started this project in seventy nine, this

859
00:43:33,519 --> 00:43:35,280
is eighty two. They put a lot of blood, sweat

860
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,800
and tears into developing this story and now they're completely

861
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,880
off of it. But it turns out that Martin was

862
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,960
not getting along with the studio either. Right now. What

863
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,400
he did contribute was that it was his idea to

864
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,599
put Ali in the second half of the movie. Like

865
00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:53,679
the original concept was, she sends him the money and

866
00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:56,639
he's just on his own after that. But they thought,

867
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,239
he needs somebody to talk You need somebody to talk to, right,

868
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,519
Are we gonna know what he's thinking if he doesn't

869
00:44:01,559 --> 00:44:04,559
have somebody to talk to. So he puts her flying

870
00:44:04,599 --> 00:44:06,840
in to meet David instead of just sending him money.

871
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,400
Now the studio is unhappy with this dark vision. It's

872
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,920
back and forth again, and eventually the studio says Martin,

873
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,119
I don't think we need you anymore, which is pretty rare,

874
00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:21,679
but He's like, Okay, you know, I stands on his principles,

875
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,239
doesn't cower? I mean he's on fire at the point

876
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,079
at that moment, so why not? Right? So he tells

877
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:28,679
Ali and Matthew, I don't think I'm going to be

878
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,599
directing this movie anymore. And of course they're paying they

879
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:33,800
think they're gonna get fired, right, right, And so he

880
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,119
ends up doing Okay.

881
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 3: He lands on Beverly Hills.

882
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 5: Cop next like, which does you know two hundred and

883
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,559
fifty million dollars or something? He did? Okay, he did

884
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:51,360
it right for this, we don't need to worry about him, right,

885
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,280
But they're now without a director, and so who do

886
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,760
they go to? A guy that we've discussed before, a

887
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,039
guy named John Adam.

888
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: John Badam. We talked about it on our Saturday Night

889
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:03,679
Fever episode. He's the guy who did that movie. Hey,

890
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,199
listen to the eighties of John Batham. Okay, yeah, listen

891
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:10,159
to this. He does, of course Saturday Night Fever. He

892
00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:13,599
does war games. He does Blue Thunder in nineteen eighty

893
00:45:13,639 --> 00:45:17,840
two Blue Thunder, remember that. He does Short Circuit Wow

894
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,800
with Johnny five and Steve Gutenberg and Ali Sheety.

895
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, he does Steak Out.

896
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty seven, one of your favorites. I love Steakout.

897
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,519
It's one of my favorites, Emilio asked as Richard Dreyvis.

898
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:29,639
Speaker 5: Yeah.

899
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,679
Speaker 3: Uh, And then of course he does Bird on a

900
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,639
Wire with Mel Gibson and Goldie Haun. I think that's

901
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,880
nineteen ninety. But still, that's a string of great, sort

902
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,079
of fun movies.

903
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 5: That's a string of sort of sort of sort of

904
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,599
sort of okay movies.

905
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 3: You tell me you don't like Short Circuit.

906
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 5: It was innovative for its time. I think if you

907
00:45:48,519 --> 00:45:50,239
go back to watch it now, we will be less

908
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,480
impressed than we were when we were then.

909
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,199
Speaker 3: Might be true, that might be.

910
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,039
Speaker 2: But it does talk about a computer becoming self aware,

911
00:45:58,119 --> 00:45:59,039
you know, Johnny.

912
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 5: Five, great point there you go.

913
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,119
Speaker 3: Hi, Hey, Plus, you got have a helicopter going upside

914
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:04,039
down in Blue Thunder.

915
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 5: So John Badam is thrown into this project. He starts

916
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,079
looking over what Martin Brest has done with the script,

917
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:18,280
and he calls up Lawrence and Walter and says, guys,

918
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,159
I'm looking at what I'm guessing is probably a three

919
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,559
hour long movie with the script. Do you guys have

920
00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:25,480
anything that you'd like to send me that I might

921
00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:28,079
be able to look at instead of this, and they said, yeah,

922
00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:30,679
we wrote a second draft that like nobody has looked at.

923
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,360
He goes send it over and they're like, well, you know,

924
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,519
a guy down the hall has a copy. He goes,

925
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,760
I'd prefer if you came and gave it to me.

926
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, give it direct.

927
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 5: At that moment, they're like, maybe we're back in. He

928
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,280
reads it. He says, this is the best script I've

929
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,840
read so far, and the writers are back in. They

930
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,199
no longer have to watch somebody else making love to

931
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:56,519
their girlfriend. They can enjoy making love to the girlfriend themselves.

932
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,280
So Badam brings on the one big chance other than

933
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,800
you know, going back to this second draft script, the

934
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,119
one big change that Batham brings is he brings on

935
00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:09,199
mister Barry Corbin.

936
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 2: Mister McKittrick.

937
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 3: After very careful consideration, sir, I've come to conclusion that

938
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,960
your new defense system sucks. He steals every scene that

939
00:47:19,039 --> 00:47:19,480
he's in.

940
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, he was the best. I mean, he was based

941
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,199
on the real life Nora in general of the time

942
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,199
and basically ad lid his way through the whole movie

943
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,159
that came up with the most quotable lines of the

944
00:47:30,199 --> 00:47:30,840
movie as well.

945
00:47:31,119 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely, they would come to him and they say, hey,

946
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:36,880
can you say something colorful right here? And he's like,

947
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,360
I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought of

948
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:41,519
doing a good that's all his stuff.

949
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 5: A question might be what happened to the guy that

950
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:45,800
was originally cast in that part.

951
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,639
Speaker 3: You know, he was moved to like the side character.

952
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,679
Speaker 5: He's the guy I can't even imagine, like you've got

953
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,039
the general's role. New director comes on and he says, Okay,

954
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:58,760
you're now going to be the general's helper. Yeah. Who

955
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:03,760
doesn't say any And it's the actor's name is Michael

956
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,639
Ensign And I mean he's been in a ton of

957
00:48:05,679 --> 00:48:07,679
stuff as well. Like when I saw him in the movie,

958
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:10,000
I'm like, he's a pretty famous actor. I wonder why

959
00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:12,000
he's not saying anything. And I think at one point,

960
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:17,119
probably improvised, Barry Corbin goes, where is that guy? Oh?

961
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:18,320
There he is. I didn't see you there.

962
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 3: That's good.

963
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,039
Speaker 2: By the way, guys, do you know what happened to

964
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,400
one of the versions of the original script that Alaska wrote?

965
00:48:26,119 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 5: What tell me?

966
00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: Oh? He rewrote it and it became Sneakers the movie

967
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,960
in nineteen ninety two with Robert Redford and Ben Kinsgilly

968
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:34,559
oh Perfet. Wow.

969
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 3: I love Sneakers the hacker movie, right, it is a

970
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:42,280
hacker movie perfect Redford, River, Phoenix City Potier, Dan Aykroyd.

971
00:48:43,679 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 2: A lot of what Alaskar originally wanted to write about

972
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:48,559
he couldn't put into war Games, and so he took

973
00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:52,320
all of that and years later rewrote it into Sneakers.

974
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 5: Fantastic.

975
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,119
Speaker 3: Wow, that's incredible.

976
00:48:54,159 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 5: By the way, if you don't recognize the name Michael Ensign,

977
00:48:57,519 --> 00:48:59,679
he's the hotel clerk from Ghostbusters.

978
00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:03,639
Speaker 3: Yes, he's also the guy in Titanic who's like, we're

979
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,840
dressed in our best and prepared to go down with

980
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:06,199
the ship.

981
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 5: There you go. I know, you bring Titanic into it.

982
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,079
Speaker 3: I love Titanic. Well, I mean, let's talk first of all,

983
00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:16,199
Matthew Broderick in the lead role. He was actually filming

984
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,119
Max Dugan Returns, which was his first movie at the time,

985
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,760
when he was hired to be in Wargames, and when

986
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,119
there's a change with the boss, he thought he was

987
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:25,840
going to get fired.

988
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, but they kept him.

989
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 3: Of course. Ali Sheety where you know her from Breakfast

990
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,320
Club and Sante almost fire and short circuit.

991
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's interesting. Obviously, John Hughes saw this

992
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,519
movie because he cast Ali Sheety in Breakfast Club, and

993
00:49:37,559 --> 00:49:40,199
then he casts Matthew Brodrick in Paris Bueler's Day Off,

994
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,079
where again he is using a computer to change his

995
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:45,480
grades nine times.

996
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 3: Grace, I'll tell you who the guy that I think

997
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,280
is the best in this movie. I mean, he's literally

998
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,679
the best in every movie. Dabney Coleman brings his A

999
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,679
game in this movie. He actually brings sense of authority.

1000
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,679
You really feel like you're in trouble when he's talking

1001
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:04,920
to you.

1002
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:09,039
Speaker 5: It is a true contest. It is a true contest

1003
00:50:09,199 --> 00:50:12,800
of Will's whenever he is arguing with Barry Corbin. I mean,

1004
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:18,119
those two guys are imminently confident and strong characters, and

1005
00:50:18,199 --> 00:50:20,679
those actors are the same way, and they both play

1006
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:22,800
them as perfect contrast to each other.

1007
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 2: I loved it, and you really needed them at the

1008
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,159
beginning of the movie because the second scene they do

1009
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,840
a lot of trying to explain what's going on with

1010
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,519
the whole command and control system of Nora in a

1011
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:34,800
two minute scene, which is not easy. You know, you

1012
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,159
could have exposition that would last for half an hour,

1013
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,480
or you could have a twelve part series that would

1014
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,920
talk about everything that they were mentioning. But it takes

1015
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,880
actors like yeah, Dadney Coleman and Barry Corbin to go

1016
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,159
through that. And that's when Corbin actually repeated one of

1017
00:50:49,159 --> 00:50:51,639
the lines that the General actually said to the writers

1018
00:50:51,639 --> 00:50:53,800
in the first place, Right, well, I sleep very well

1019
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,559
at night knowing those boys are down there.

1020
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:56,599
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1021
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course he had to throw into how do

1022
00:50:58,519 --> 00:50:59,400
doty references?

1023
00:51:01,639 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the actual general said I sleep well

1024
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,559
at night knowing I'm in charge. Yeah. Let me ask

1025
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:09,960
this Chad, like, is this a debate or has it

1026
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,000
ever been a debate among the wargame simulations of how

1027
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:16,199
much control do we put in the hands of the

1028
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:18,440
computers versus how much control do we put in the

1029
00:51:18,639 --> 00:51:19,320
ends of the humans?

1030
00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 2: I think theoretically, yeah, But that means by theoretically, I

1031
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,280
mean you're always going to have some academics or people

1032
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,719
at the Rand Corporation saying, hey, maybe we could be

1033
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,480
more efficient, we could have more control, right, But then

1034
00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:33,519
you end up getting the Walter Matthau character from Failsafe,

1035
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:37,800
you know, rather than the people who who are actually

1036
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,400
working at it. And so the military has always been

1037
00:51:40,519 --> 00:51:43,880
adamant no, no, we need men and no women, you know,

1038
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,760
to be in the command and control that there has

1039
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,000
to be a clear set of controls. And you got

1040
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:52,840
to have the men with the brass keys because they're

1041
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,960
the only ones who can stop it if they're.

1042
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:55,639
Speaker 3: The keys, sir.

1043
00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 5: By the way, early appearance by Michael Mattson and On Spencer, Yeah,

1044
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,400
Matt's and beat popping a guy's ear off and reservoir

1045
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,280
dogs in a few years and John Spencer's running the

1046
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:06,719
West Wing.

1047
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 3: That's right, And that.

1048
00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:11,079
Speaker 2: Was Madison's first role. In fact, he auditioned for it

1049
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:13,800
as a joke. He didn't think anything was going to

1050
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,480
come with it, but yeah, he he really made that

1051
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:17,119
first scene.

1052
00:52:17,199 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 3: And then you've got Art Lafleur, who's the third guy

1053
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,719
in that scene. He's the guy who plays the babe

1054
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,159
in Sandlot. He's kind of a.

1055
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 5: Guy, that guy, Yeah, who's talking to Yeah, talking to

1056
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:28,639
him as they come in. I remember that.

1057
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got some other guys, I mean so, I

1058
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,840
mean John Wood goes on to do Lady Hawk with

1059
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,519
Matthew Broderick. Yep, Okay, Barry Corbyn we talked about. He's

1060
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:40,599
the general who comes up with all the colorful lines

1061
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,159
he was in any which way, you can playing strip

1062
00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:46,719
poker with the old ladies, which I can't wait to

1063
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:47,519
talk about with you.

1064
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 5: Right Eddie, see the way he yanked me out of

1065
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,639
the car like that finger?

1066
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,639
Speaker 3: You have Eddie Deeson, the guy who plays Malvin. He's

1067
00:52:57,679 --> 00:52:58,360
from Greece.

1068
00:52:58,920 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: Wow, what'd you get?

1069
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 3: I was trying to break into provision.

1070
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to see the program for their new games.

1071
00:53:04,639 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 2: Wait, I'm not through yet. Remember you told me to

1072
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,480
tell you when you were acting foodly and insensitively. Remember

1073
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,400
that you're doing it right now.

1074
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,079
Speaker 3: And then, of course you have William H. Macy as

1075
00:53:18,119 --> 00:53:19,599
the nor D officer.

1076
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 5: I missed. I missed that.

1077
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 3: He is just he's in the background.

1078
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,159
Speaker 5: Wow, yeah, I missed that completely.

1079
00:53:26,519 --> 00:53:30,119
Speaker 3: One more name for you. You have James Tolkien, the

1080
00:53:30,199 --> 00:53:34,559
principle from Back to the Future. And the guy in

1081
00:53:34,679 --> 00:53:37,280
Top Gun who's gonna tell Maverick that he's gonna fly

1082
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,199
a cargo ship full of rubber dog crab.

1083
00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:41,559
Speaker 5: Jeez, didn't that guy ever have hair? Yeah?

1084
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:46,599
Speaker 3: There you go? How about that? The cast incredibly strong

1085
00:53:47,119 --> 00:53:50,000
in war games. Oh, one more name for you. Jason Bernard.

1086
00:53:50,159 --> 00:53:52,840
He plays the judge in Liar Larry, the kind of

1087
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:53,519
the black officer.

1088
00:53:53,519 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, I remember seeing him. I'm going Liar

1089
00:53:56,119 --> 00:53:58,719
Larry judge another guy. Yep. By the way, I don't

1090
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,079
know that everybody knows this, but Wood wasn't just Stephen

1091
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,199
Faukin character. He was also the voice of the computer.

1092
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,199
So they realized that when text appears on a computer screen.

1093
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,800
Unlike today where everybody's used to reading text on a

1094
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,280
screen all the time, back then ninety percent of people

1095
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,920
weren't reading whatever was up there. And so John Batham

1096
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,800
came up with this idea, Well, why don't we have

1097
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,000
why don't we give the computer a voice, a speaker

1098
00:54:27,079 --> 00:54:29,280
so that we can hear what it says. And by

1099
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,760
the way, one of the most memorable parts of the movie,

1100
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,440
I mean that voice is incredible. John Wood is the

1101
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,239
guy who gives the voice for the computer. Yep. John

1102
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,079
Badam comes to him and says, Okay, I want you

1103
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:41,320
to read these lines, but I want you to read

1104
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,960
them from right to left instead of left to right

1105
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,960
and yeah, and John Wood is like, why would I

1106
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,159
do that? He goes, well, because the computer would not

1107
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,280
have the personality of speech that you have, and so

1108
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,840
if you read them backwards, you've got to basically isolate

1109
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,639
each word and it will sound like a computer where

1110
00:55:00,639 --> 00:55:02,440
each word has been pre recorded.

1111
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,159
Speaker 3: So rather than shall we play a game, it's play

1112
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:08,320
a game.

1113
00:55:08,519 --> 00:55:09,559
Speaker 5: Good try thing it.

1114
00:55:10,519 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 3: I'd have to have it written down for me.

1115
00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they they really had trouble even using the computers.

1116
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:18,159
No one knew how to type, right, so they had

1117
00:55:18,159 --> 00:55:20,719
to come up with what is pretty common nowadays that

1118
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,320
whatever key you press, it'll it'll write what's supposed to

1119
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,000
be in the script. But at first they were trying

1120
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,639
to do it with Matthew Broderick. He just didn't know

1121
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:30,920
how to type, and so they were trying to give

1122
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,119
him computers so we could practice. But of course they

1123
00:55:33,159 --> 00:55:34,719
also had to give him a Galago so we could

1124
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,719
practice on that before the arcade scene.

1125
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 5: Focus a little more.

1126
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 3: On the gallery, I think, So I wish somebody had

1127
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,519
given me a gallagant game and focus.

1128
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 5: Okay, so we're ready to talk casting on Tron.

1129
00:55:44,519 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 3: Then let's talk casting on tron all right. Okay, So

1130
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:57,159
in the lead role of Kevin Flynn, we have Big

1131
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:02,079
Lebowski himself, Jeff Bridges. Jeff Bridges of course has done

1132
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,480
true grit against all odds. He's Obadiah Stain and Iron

1133
00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:10,960
Man Show in a Million Things. Glynn is Hans Solo.

1134
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:14,159
He's the Gunslinger, He's the guy who breaks the rules.

1135
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,480
He's the guy the girl really secretly likes. I'll make

1136
00:56:17,519 --> 00:56:20,920
the case that Riyori is Princess Lea. Tron is Luke,

1137
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,440
and Sarcus Darth.

1138
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 5: Vader, who's Gold five five five Gold five is Gold five.

1139
00:56:27,079 --> 00:56:30,039
You if you watch this movie and are familiar in

1140
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:32,880
the least with Star Wars, you gotta be going these

1141
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:34,199
guys were Star Wars fans.

1142
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 3: Dumont was clearly Obi Wan Kenobi obviously Yep, yep. Bernard Hughes,

1143
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,400
Bernard Hughes, who was also Berlin and the TV series,

1144
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,480
and of course the grandpa on The Lost Boys. Ah.

1145
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:49,199
The bad thing about this plays it's too many damn vampires,

1146
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,320
all right. Bruce Boxleitner plays Tron.

1147
00:56:52,639 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 5: Yes.

1148
00:56:53,039 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 3: The only thing I know from him is that he

1149
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,599
was in Babylon five. Yeah, shout out to our buddy

1150
00:56:57,679 --> 00:57:00,960
Van Allen Plexico. I've never seen Babylon five life, but

1151
00:57:01,079 --> 00:57:03,039
he runs a podcast on Babylon five. If you want

1152
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:03,960
to know about that, go listen.

1153
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:04,519
Speaker 5: To his stuff.

1154
00:57:05,039 --> 00:57:10,159
Speaker 3: Then, of course you have Cindy Morgan who plays Laura Baines.

1155
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:11,599
She's Lacy underalls.

1156
00:57:11,599 --> 00:57:15,679
Speaker 5: From Lacy Underalls like I saw, I'm like, I feel

1157
00:57:15,679 --> 00:57:18,239
like there's a hot girl behind those glasses somewhere. So

1158
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:22,039
I looked up the actress and sure enough, she's back there.

1159
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 2: Yes, it's great that you could go from being a high,

1160
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,760
high class socialite to being a computer programmer and such

1161
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:29,639
a short period of time.

1162
00:57:31,079 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 5: Well she wore the computer outfit, Well, yes she did.

1163
00:57:34,639 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 4: She did.

1164
00:57:35,159 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 3: By the way, the little dome thing that she had on.

1165
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:40,039
I heard her talking about this, so they would like

1166
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:42,760
glue it to her face in her head. It looks

1167
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,480
like a like those little plastic things you put on

1168
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:46,800
your head so you don't have to wash your hair.

1169
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,719
Ladies wear the shower cap, shower caup.

1170
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:50,239
Speaker 5: There you go.

1171
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 3: Hey, it's a shower cap. But they would kind of

1172
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,159
glue it to her face, and then as she would

1173
00:57:55,199 --> 00:57:57,519
take it on and off, she began to get these

1174
00:57:57,519 --> 00:58:00,199
little blisters on her face. She's like, why can and

1175
00:58:00,239 --> 00:58:02,920
I have a freaking hockey helmet like the guys get

1176
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:05,559
so towards the end of the movie, she actually is

1177
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:08,280
wearing a more of a hockey style. All right, you

1178
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:12,880
have David Warner who plays Ed Dillinger. He's also Sark. Yeah,

1179
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:13,840
he's Darth Vader.

1180
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:14,199
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1181
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 3: David Warner just passed away last year.

1182
00:58:16,519 --> 00:58:19,239
Speaker 5: I think we talked about how good he is being

1183
00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:22,239
a bad guy. He's a bad guy from the time banded,

1184
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,840
time banded bad guy in Titanic. He his favorite movie. Yes,

1185
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:28,280
what was the other one? He was a bad guy

1186
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,519
in another one too? Oh, he was. He was in

1187
00:58:30,519 --> 00:58:32,920
one of the Star Trek in one of the Star Treks.

1188
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was discovered country is Star Trek six.

1189
00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:37,639
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, he's good at being a bad guy, and

1190
00:58:37,679 --> 00:58:39,320
he's a good bad guy in this one too.

1191
00:58:39,559 --> 00:58:43,599
Speaker 3: By the way, Peter O'Toole was approached to play Sark

1192
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,159
in this movie. Peter O'Toole Lawrence of Arabia.

1193
00:58:46,239 --> 00:58:46,519
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1194
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,079
Speaker 3: Right, he read the script and he's like, hey, guys,

1195
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:50,119
this is really good.

1196
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 5: I want to play Tron.

1197
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,679
Speaker 3: And they're like, ah, you're not really what we had

1198
00:58:56,719 --> 00:59:00,000
in mind for Tron. Yeah, and he really tried to

1199
00:59:00,199 --> 00:59:02,079
sell them on the idea that he could play Tron.

1200
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:03,800
So he ended up getting neither.

1201
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:05,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, so he got my favorite year.

1202
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 3: Yes, also for the role of Yori, they wanted Debbie

1203
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:12,559
Harry of Blondie.

1204
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,559
Speaker 5: Well, they had a similar look. I mean, they definitely

1205
00:59:15,559 --> 00:59:16,880
have a similar similar look.

1206
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 3: I can see that both would look good in the

1207
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,599
you know, form fitting electronic suit argument.

1208
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,239
Speaker 2: I think Blondie music would have gone well in place

1209
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:26,679
of Journey.

1210
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,639
Speaker 3: That would have been easy, flip in, flip out.

1211
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:32,239
Speaker 5: Right, sure, Yeah, I feel like Flynn would have been

1212
00:59:32,239 --> 00:59:34,360
a bigger Blondie fan than he would have been a

1213
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:35,519
Journey fan. Yeah.

1214
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,199
Speaker 3: And then of course Bernard Hughes Uncle Grandpa from The

1215
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:45,400
Lost Boys, as Dumont call him Uncle Grandpa, Uncle Grandpa,

1216
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:51,039
don't dodge my oreos, Okay, And that's pretty much it

1217
00:59:51,079 --> 00:59:53,159
in Toronto. I mean, you got a couple other guys.

1218
00:59:53,199 --> 00:59:55,840
One guy plays Ram and one guy plays an accountant

1219
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,960
who gets killed ten seconds. But you know, right, so

1220
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,360
there's really not that much going on cast wise in Tron.

1221
01:00:02,679 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, so let's talk about the movies themselves. I'm gonna

1222
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,400
touch on Tron just a little bit. You mentioned that

1223
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:14,639
there's obviously some significant theological questions and impacts going on here.

1224
01:00:15,159 --> 01:00:19,079
He's a guy who is comes from above, goes down

1225
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:24,920
to the world below, and is a user incarnate and

1226
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:28,719
the powers that be very strong similarity to the Roman

1227
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,559
Empire and the games that they would have the peasants

1228
01:00:33,599 --> 01:00:38,440
and the other ladiators play all very similar and requires

1229
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,639
them to renounce their belief in the silly superstition or

1230
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:46,480
they're going to get the standard substandard training, or they

1231
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,840
can renounce it and have the expert training right right.

1232
01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:54,480
And the guys even say, you know, do you really

1233
01:00:54,519 --> 01:00:57,239
believe in the users? And the guy says, yeah, I

1234
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,639
mean if I don't have a user who created me,

1235
01:01:00,159 --> 01:01:05,079
So it's very It has a lot of those religious quotes. Sure,

1236
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,679
what was kind of interesting to me and Chad you

1237
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,239
touched on this just a little bit, But we all

1238
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:15,960
kind of have from almost our inception a little personality

1239
01:01:16,039 --> 01:01:20,800
that belongs in the computer system. Like from the time

1240
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,760
that we are born, we are immediately entered into a

1241
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,199
computer database as a number, our social security number. Right.

1242
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,960
Like I had this weird case where I was dealing

1243
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,360
with a guy who, even though he was alive, he

1244
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,400
appeared to be dead because somehow in the computer system,

1245
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,559
they had decided he was dead and he had no

1246
01:01:40,639 --> 01:01:43,199
way to prove that he was alive because the computers

1247
01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:46,119
said he was dead. Huh. So it's a very interesting

1248
01:01:46,199 --> 01:01:50,559
concept that we really are these little guys running around

1249
01:01:50,599 --> 01:01:55,039
an avatar computer person that is us, that's there from

1250
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:57,360
our birth until our death.

1251
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,599
Speaker 2: And then you add the new technology of like Facebook

1252
01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:04,320
and social media, who are keeping track of everywhere we

1253
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,440
go and what we buy and who our friends are,

1254
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:09,920
and they have their own idea of who we are,

1255
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,920
right and sometimes it's even a better idea. They know

1256
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:15,440
what we want to buy, they know what we want

1257
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,039
to see next. I think met is a little confused

1258
01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:19,360
over where I live.

1259
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 5: But that's probably true around a lot.

1260
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:26,519
Speaker 2: But it's true those identities exist, right, and there are

1261
01:02:26,519 --> 01:02:28,760
other computers that keep track for our credit scores and

1262
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,920
judges based upon that. And then there's a sort of

1263
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,039
online identities. You know, you can even ask if you're

1264
01:02:35,079 --> 01:02:36,800
better known on the internet, and you can ask chat

1265
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,239
GPT you know who is so and so, and then

1266
01:02:40,239 --> 01:02:42,840
they'll come up with an idea of well, this person right,

1267
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,199
And if people do a search for my name, you

1268
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,320
get really different results depending upon which keyword you use

1269
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,880
with it, because there are other Chad Briggs is out there.

1270
01:02:52,519 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 5: And the media out there with your name as well

1271
01:02:54,719 --> 01:02:55,400
you'll lit you up.

1272
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, So whenever you delete something from face, you have

1273
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:02,840
a little man in the computer who throws a disc

1274
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:03,800
at it and it blows up.

1275
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 5: All right, everybody that does it. For our first part

1276
01:03:09,679 --> 01:03:14,039
of the Tron Versus Wargames series, we are going to

1277
01:03:14,039 --> 01:03:17,760
be back next week. Chad, our expert guest, is going

1278
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,159
to be with us and we are going to be

1279
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,119
talking about real life wargames versus what we saw in

1280
01:03:23,159 --> 01:03:24,880
the movie and how close those might be.

1281
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 3: Please join us for that episode.

1282
01:03:27,239 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 5: Chad, as I mentioned before, not only is a super genius,

1283
01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:34,239
but also a Patreon subscriber, So if you want to

1284
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,519
be like the other super geniuses in the world, be

1285
01:03:36,639 --> 01:03:40,039
sure and check out our Patreon page. It's patreon dot

1286
01:03:40,079 --> 01:03:44,480
com back slash Shirly podcast where you can sign up

1287
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,400
for as little as five bucks a month, and like

1288
01:03:47,559 --> 01:03:51,960
Chad's favorite episode of Aha, take on Me, you get

1289
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,800
to hear our analysis of various one hit wonders and

1290
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,320
other random choices by Jason that the general public doesn't

1291
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,039
get to hear, just star Patreon subscribers, so be sure

1292
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:04,079
and check us out there. If you don't have the

1293
01:04:04,199 --> 01:04:06,920
funds to do that, do us a favor and hit

1294
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,599
a review, hit a five star review, write us a review.

1295
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 3: We'll see you guys here next week. Chad you coming back,

1296
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,079
I'll be here, awesome man, Bye, guys,