WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:05.480 It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZY Constance video. 2 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:10.480 Last week, there was a very interesting hearing at the 3 00:00:10.519 --> 00:00:15.839 state House. There's a special Commission on combating Anti Semitism 4 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:20.039 at the Massachusetts State House, and on the hot seat 5 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:22.280 was a gentleman by the name of Max Page. He's 6 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:26.679 the president of the Massachusetts Teachers Association, the largest teachers 7 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:30.760 union in New England, represents one hundred and seventeen thousand 8 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:37.280 members with us tonight is a friend of this program, 9 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:43.039 Jeff Robbins, former the director of the Anti Defamation League 10 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:49.359 here in New England. And this hearing Jeff at the 11 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:55.079 State House last week drew some very interesting questions and 12 00:00:55.119 --> 00:01:01.039 some inadequate answers from Max Page. Could you set it 13 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:11.200 up a little bit. There's an article that I've read. 14 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:08.439 In a. 15 00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:14.159 Publication called The Free Press. I'm not all that familiar with, 16 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:19.799 but the article says, welcome to Homassachusetts. Rampant and ubiquitous 17 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.159 anti semitism is making its way into the largest teachers 18 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:26.840 union in New England. Lawmakers say this is frightening. 19 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:30.799 Welcome Jeff, Thank you, Dana, thank you for having me. Well, 20 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.280 there are sort of two pieces to it. Shortly after 21 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:38.680 the mass slaughter that occurred on October seventh. The Massachusetts 22 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:43.599 Teachers Association, which promptly denounced not the slaughter but the 23 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:49.680 Israeli quote unquote genocide, trying to prevent another slaughter, commissioned 24 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.680 a fellow who may be the last person in Massachusetts 25 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:58.000 who could have been commissioned to put together objectively so 26 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:03.480 called educational resources for teachers to use in their schools 27 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.400 with kids teaching them about the conflict. And to say 28 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:11.319 that the materials were biased doesn't begin to state it. 29 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.960 The fellow that they asked to commission this Villa name 30 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:19.120 Ricardo Rosa, had praised terrorists, had supported a professor who 31 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:24.159 called Zionist swine and the like. So, putting aside how 32 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:26.240 you feel about the conflict, the notion this guy was 33 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:30.719 in a position to develop educational materials that presented the 34 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.039 conflict in anything close to a fair fashion was ludicrous 35 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:39.199 and intellectually insulting, the more so from a teacher and 36 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:42.800 from a union. What happened this past week, this has 37 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:44.840 been a controversy, as you know, over the last year, 38 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:50.520 was that the legislative commission looking into anti Semitism went 39 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:52.599 beyond the question of whether or not this stuff was 40 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:56.960 just ridiculously biased and an affront. But whether or not 41 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.840 the materials that were disseminated under the leadership of this 42 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:04.960 fellow constituted blatant anti Semitism, and of course they surely did. 43 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:10.039 They featured, for example, the Star of David comprised of 44 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:16.120 dollar bills. They had a poster that was distributed telling 45 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:23.400 saying f off Zionists, describing Zionists as snakes and other stuff. 46 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.719 This is the kind of stuff which had it been 47 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.039 people of color or anybody else, would have never gotten 48 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.919 out of the starting gate. And so this examination is 49 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:35.719 the testimony. The hearing at the state House was a 50 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:39.159 questioning of the head of the Teachers Association as to 51 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:44.159 how this possibly could be justified. And among the gems 52 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:49.039 that came out of this testimony was the question by 53 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.719 one of the members of the legislative, Simon Cataldo, asking 54 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.879 him about the Star of David made of dollar bills. Quote, 55 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:01.639 you'd agree this is anti semitic image recorrect, And here's 56 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.080 what the president of the Massachusetts Teacher Association, the head 57 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:08.680 of a teachers union replied. He replied, I'm not going 58 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:13.039 to evaluate that. So you've got two problems. One is 59 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:16.680 absurd bias in our schools, and the second is blatant 60 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:17.480 and a Semitism. 61 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:23.800 Well, we attempted to have the president, we invited once 62 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.639 again the president of the teachers Union, Max Page, to 63 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:31.040 join the conversation tonight, and also we certainly would have 64 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.720 welcomed the vice president, a woman named Deb McCarthy. They 65 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:39.399 sent us a pully brief statement, but I'd like to 66 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:41.600 reach us a bit of it. In meeting with the 67 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:46.879 Special Commission on Combating Anti Semitism in Massachusetts, the Massachusetts 68 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.839 Teachers Union Association, excuse me, had hoped for honest dialogue 69 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:55.240 and an exchange of ideas. Instead, the president of the 70 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.360 union and one of its members were subjected to two 71 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:02.439 hours of political grants that did not further the cause 72 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:07.319 of combating anti Semitism. So the question that was asked 73 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:13.199 is being characterized as grandstanding, and you're correct. I've seen 74 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:21.040 this picture, if you will, of dollar bills made into 75 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.360 a star of David, which of course is just an 76 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:28.720 old blood libel that you know, money is what drives 77 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:36.040 Jewish decisions, and it's deplorable that his response to that 78 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:39.079 was was simply he was not going to respond to it, 79 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:41.879 He's not going to dignify that question with an answer. 80 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.000 Yeah, you know, on top of everything else. What an 81 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:50.480 insult that the head of the Massachusetts that the Teacher 82 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:54.319 Association itself would issue a statement like that, unable to 83 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:58.079 answer a simple question about whether or not that was 84 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:02.839 anti Semitic imagery teacher. The head of the Teachers Association says, 85 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.439 I'm not going to evaluate that, and then tries to 86 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:11.000 basically respond to the fact that it was such a 87 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.519 pathetic answer by accusing the person who asked him the 88 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:18.240 question of grand standing or of not engaging in an 89 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:20.560 honest dialogue. It's just breathtaking. 90 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:27.920 So what happened today was my producer Marita sent left, 91 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.480 called and send an email to the mass Teachers Association 92 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:37.079 basically explaining to them that she was reaching out from 93 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.319 WZ News Radio. Just left you a voicemail as well. 94 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.800 We're looking to talk about this topic tonight at nine 95 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.480 and we're wondering if this is spokes for us from 96 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.040 the MTA. We'll join Dan this evening to discuss even 97 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:52.040 if it's for a segment or two. It's all done remotely, 98 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:54.480 so via telephone, no needs to travel anywhere in person. 99 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:56.519 We can be flexible, so please let us know whether 100 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:59.800 it's just to know if we can coordinate something for 101 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:05.040 this evening. And the response came back fairly quickly from 102 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:08.360 someone named Scott McClellan, who I guess is their PR person. 103 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:11.720 I can't set anything up, sorry, I hope Dan and 104 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.480 you realize that the resources are not items on the 105 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:18.720 front of our website, and that these are items available 106 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:21.879 to MTA members that the Board of Directors asked to 107 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:25.079 be provided to members in hopes of understanding the conflict 108 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:27.199 and being able to teach about it. 109 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:28.480 Yeah. 110 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:30.839 That doesn't even rise to the level. It doesn't rise 111 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:33.079 to the level of words salad. It's just garbage. 112 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:38.600 Yeah. So Marita response, She says, oh, hey, Scott, okay, 113 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.839 we don't entirely understand that in terms of the availability 114 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.800 of the items to members compared to the public, et cetera. 115 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:47.639 That's why we're hoping to have you guys who want 116 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.560 to explain it further so we can understand that better. 117 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:54.399 Is there another statement you can provide us on the 118 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:58.600 latest And there was that statement that I read and 119 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:06.160 that's it. Now invited mister Page on several occasions and 120 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:09.480 in the statement he says, as noted in opening remarks, 121 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:12.319 by delivering this is the statement from the Teachers Association 122 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:17.000 by MTA President Max Page. Anti Semitism is inextricably linked 123 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:19.600 to so many other forms of prejudice and hate that 124 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:23.360 we need a wide ranging, vocal and unequivocal reput repudiation 125 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:27.120 of hate in all its forms. And yet he wasn't 126 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:33.120 able to address what dollar bills you know, made into 127 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.759 a star of David might necessarily represent in these teaching materials. 128 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.039 There's a disconnect here that I don't understand. 129 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:46.159 Jeff Well, you're being charitable when you refer to it 130 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:50.000 as a disconnect. It's just patent dishonesty. I mean, had 131 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:53.559 there been an honest response to the question by your producer, 132 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:56.120 will you agree to come in and have an honest 133 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:59.519 dialogue about these issues, then the answer would have been yeah. 134 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:04.159 When is not only fly but circumnavigate the globe? Because 135 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.919 there is no capacity to answer these questions at all, 136 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.840 a fact which was amply demonstrated in the state House, 137 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.279 and that they basically choose to respond by blaming those 138 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:18.159 who asked them the questions that they couldn't answer, as 139 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.080 though it's the fault of the people who ask the 140 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.840 questions rather than their fault. I mean that speaks volumes. 141 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:25.840 Jeff, we're going to take a quick break. We're going 142 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.799 to be joined by Sarah cob in just a moment. 143 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:30.879 Sarah's the deputy director, as you well know, of the 144 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.759 New England Anti Defamation League. And I also want to 145 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.200 invite our callers to join this conversation because I think 146 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:42.440 it's terribly important when materials are being given to teachers 147 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:49.039 for their I guess consideration, but those materials are not 148 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:53.559 being circulated widely so parents can see. As I understand 149 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:56.200 that I could be wrong here, maybe the Teachers' Union 150 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:00.200 has sent these materials to the parents of students. Well, 151 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.879 but I don't think so. I just don't think so. 152 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.639 And we'll ask Sarah about that. Jeff, I want you 153 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.840 to stay with us. We'll incorporate Sarah into this conversation. 154 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:11.759 And if there's anyone out there for the Massachusetts Teachers 155 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:16.480 Union who wants to join the conversation, be it mister 156 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:20.000 Page or missus McCarthy or any other representative, you are 157 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.799 more than welcome, and you're welcome any night to come 158 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.480 on and talk with with Jeff or with Sarah or 159 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:33.120 with other representatives of you know, long standing organizations here 160 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.519 in New England that have fought against anti Semitism wherever 161 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.080 it raises its ugly head. We'll be back on Nightside. 162 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.279 Our phone number is six one seven two five four 163 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.200 ten thirty. Also there's one at six one seven nine 164 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:48.480 three one ten thirty. B right back on Nightside. 165 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:52.360 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 166 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:55.600 Nightside Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio. 167 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.600 I'm joined by Jeff Robbins, who is a syndicated columnist. 168 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:09.919 He's also a a learned, well well known attorney, specializes 169 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:14.320 in a number of different areas, but specifically also first Amendment. 170 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:17.320 We've talked with Jeff, Jeff as the former director of 171 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:22.200 the Anti Defamation League here in New England, and we're 172 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:26.279 now going to be joined by Sarah Colb, deputy director 173 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:30.480 of the New England Anti Defamation League. Sarah, welcome Tonight'sie. 174 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:34.639 Thanks for joining us. What is your reaction? I assume 175 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:38.679 it probably falls along the line of Jeff. With this 176 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:44.320 information that the Mass Teachers Association apparently has provided some 177 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:50.000 quote unquote teaching materials to their membership, which has a 178 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.399 pretty distinct and disgusting anti Semitic flavor. 179 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:58.960 Dan, thanks so much for having me and for having 180 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:02.440 this really critical conversation. Before I answer that, I just 181 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.879 think it's really important to take a step back and 182 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:09.159 look at what's happening in context. So, after October seventh, 183 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.440 the largest laughter of Jews since the Holocaust, Jews have 184 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:17.200 experienced an absolute tidal wave of anti Semitic hate that's 185 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.960 happening across the country, and that's certainly happening here in 186 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.879 this Commonwealth. It was already on the rise, but since 187 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.200 ten to seven it has gotten so much worse. Almost 188 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:31.039 immediately following the atrocities of ten to seven, the MTA 189 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.360 decided to blast Israel. This is in December of twenty 190 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.200 twenty three, blast Israel, accusing it of genocide against the Palestinians, 191 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:42.159 making no mention of the hostages or any of the 192 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:45.399 atrocities committed by Hamas, and essentially blaming Israel for. 193 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:47.080 All the violence that has ensued. 194 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.759 At the same time, they passed a resolution saying that 195 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:55.039 they were going to create curriculum on Israel Palestine. Now, 196 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.799 let's be clear, creating curriculum is not something that this Union, 197 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.600 as I understand it, had before, but for the first 198 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:06.879 time ever, they're going to create curriculum on an extraordinarily 199 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:12.039 complex global conflict. This is the same Union. Remind you know, 200 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:15.000 it's helpful to remember that just recently fought and won 201 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:19.080 a battle against standardized test standardized testing on you know, 202 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:23.120 regular topics like English and maths skills. But they instead 203 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:28.879 want to engage in providing curriculum on this highly complicated 204 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.360 global conflict that requires quite a bit of nuance and understanding. 205 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:36.879 So the resources were published a few months. 206 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:38.960 Ago, and it's pretty obvious that. 207 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.480 There is one single perspective that's being pushed. 208 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:42.399 You know. 209 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:46.399 Although there's a few unobjectionable resources sprinkled in, the overwhelming 210 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.519 majority are extremely empty Israel. And of course there are 211 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:52.480 many that are outright anti Semitic, like the ones that 212 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.320 you've been discussing so far and that we're highlighted by 213 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:00.480 the Commission. If the MTA were truly interested in providing 214 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:04.440 resources for teachers to promote their learning, as Max Page suggested, 215 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.320 how could it possibly justify giving such a one sided view, 216 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:13.559 and worse, including materials that engage in these hateful anti 217 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.799 Semitic tropes. Now I want to go back to what 218 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.919 I said earlier, it's not doing this in a vacuum. 219 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.960 It is doing this at a time when Jewish and 220 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.919 Israeli students are suffering immeasurably. The incidents of hate that 221 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.200 we are seeing in our K through twelve schools right 222 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:30.480 now have skyrocketed. 223 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:31.320 I'll just give you. 224 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.960 One tiny anecdote. Our twenty twenty four numbers are not 225 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.759 out yet, but we had one single week where at ADL, 226 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.559 New England, we got reports of five separate incidents of 227 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.639 swastika vandalism in a single week. So this is not normal, 228 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.080 but it is being normalized. And the MTA's actions here, 229 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.440 I think risk pouring gasoline on a raging fire. And 230 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.960 I have to say, while we're on the topic of gasoline, 231 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:59.960 that statement that you read by page in response to 232 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.759 the hearing feels like more gaslighting to me, which is 233 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.080 becoming all too common whenever the Jewish community points out 234 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:11.480 the clear anti Semitic hatre that's happening. We all know 235 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.519 what we found those images. But Paige refused to answer 236 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:17.720 the question and instead wants to shift our focus so 237 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:20.720 that we're talking about the motives of those asking the questions, 238 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:23.320 And he's doing that because he could not defend what 239 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.000 is obviously indefensible. 240 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.919 Well, I'm looking at some of these materials that apparently 241 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:32.600 were circulated to teachers. This is an article out of 242 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:40.279 the Free Press which is entitled Welcome to Hamassachusetts. So 243 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:45.039 there's the one that Jeff was referred to, which was 244 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:49.799 the dollar bill. Two dollar bills which are basically formed 245 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.919 in triangles, which are formed to make a star of David, 246 00:15:54.879 --> 00:16:00.279 which is nothing more than in old trope and blood libels. 247 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:06.679 There's one this is from THEMS Teacher Association Resources on 248 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:12.679 Israel and Occupied Palestine Visuals and Art, a hundred posters 249 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.639 made by artists from across the world in solidarity with 250 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:22.320 Palestine from apartheid Art, and it's a picture of looks 251 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.639 like a young woman with a mask and an automatic weapon. 252 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:29.519 What was taken by force can only be restored by force. 253 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:40.759 Another poster Day of Rage, Decolonize this place, solidarity contingent. 254 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.200 And then there's there's one a picture of President Biden, 255 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:50.240 who's labeled a serial killer. More than twenty thousand Palestinian 256 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:55.879 death since October seventh, Lip service is no solution to genocide. 257 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:00.559 And then a children's book mentioned in The material called 258 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:06.119 Handle Us Return, published last year by the Palestinian Feminist Collective, 259 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.279 includes lines like a group of bullies called Zionists wanted land, 260 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.519 so they stole it by force and hurt many people. 261 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:15.039 The book ends with a call to action and quoting 262 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.720 from the article in The Free Press, urging readers to 263 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.480 quote help handle a Free Palestine, asking them to fill 264 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.799 in prompts such as I will raise funds for the 265 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.640 children of Palestine, buy I will chant this at a 266 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:30.119 Palestine protest. I mean, this is nothing more than brainwashing. 267 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.359 This is an education right And Dan, you raised a 268 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.839 really important point earlier about you know where these materials 269 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.200 sent to parents. No, they were not. These were provided 270 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:44.920 on the member's only website of the MTA. Now quarry 271 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.839 why it shouldn't be made public when the MTA is 272 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.440 now engaging, apparently in the creation curriculum on such a 273 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.599 sensitive topic that we should we shouldn't allow people to 274 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.759 know what their tax dollars are paying for and what 275 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.160 their students are learning in school. That seems really questionable 276 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:02.440 to me. 277 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:06.960 It's it's it's it's more than questionable. And again, just 278 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.400 the the demeanor of Max Page, this is a very 279 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:16.079 active UH political union. They've they've fought long and hard 280 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:22.680 and successfully to eliminate the uh mcast graduation requirement. They've also, 281 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.559 i think, stated publicly that they want to allow teachers 282 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.799 UH unions to strike. In Massachusetts, in the city of 283 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.559 Newton a year ago, teachers Union was out on strike 284 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:38.440 for nearly three weeks, pretty much the entire month of 285 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:39.799 January last winter. 286 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:40.680 UH. 287 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:44.559 And now they are they are basically, in my opinion, 288 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:49.079 just my opinion, politicizing what is going on in the 289 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.799 Middle East. For for students here, this is the sort 290 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.039 of thing that would be discussed at a college or 291 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:58.880 a graduate student level. You would not be indoctrinating students 292 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.440 with this at either junior high, high school or elementary 293 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.839 school level. I'd like to take a break, Jeff and Sarah, 294 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.680 because at the bottom of the hour, I want to 295 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.880 invite callers to join the conversation six one seven two 296 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.440 ten thirty or six one seven nine three one ten thirty. 297 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:23.680 We'll get to phone calls. This is frightening. And as 298 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:29.079 I say, I have some information UH today, some further 299 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.200 information about mister Page, who has been invited on this 300 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.640 program on many occasions. He's more than welcome UH to 301 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:38.920 join us on any night that he would like. UH, 302 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.519 And I certainly would love to have him join us 303 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:46.000 on some night with Sarah and or Jeff Uh to 304 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:51.000 discuss this in graded detail. I think it involves students, 305 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:55.319 It involves parents of students. If you're someone now in 306 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.519 your thirties or forties and you're listening to this program 307 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.559 and you have a parent in a public scho in Massachusetts, 308 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:05.200 this has a direct impact, a potential direct impact on you. 309 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.079 We'll take a quick break right back on Nightside after. 310 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:15.960 This Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio. 311 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:22.319 I am joined by Jeff Robbins and Sarah coleb. Sarah's 312 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.079 the deputy director of the New England Anti Defamation League. 313 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.960 Jeff is the former director of the Anti Defamation League 314 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:29.960 here in New England. And we are talking about some 315 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:35.039 teaching materials, allegedly anti Semitic teaching materials we've described them 316 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.839 during the first hour, that have been presented to teachers 317 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:43.200 across Massachusetts by the Massachusetts Teachers Association. It was the 318 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.200 subject of a hearing at the State House last week 319 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.640 in front of a special State Commission on Anti Semitism 320 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:54.559 and the president of the Teachers' Union, gentleman by the 321 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:56.359 name of Max Page, who has been invited to come 322 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.039 on this show on at least three occasions that I 323 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.640 can think of, and declined the opportunity on every occasion, 324 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.319 and even today when we were looking for a spokesperson 325 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.960 from the association, the Mass Teachers Association, we were told 326 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:14.880 no one is available. We're now going to go to 327 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.119 phone calls and let me start it off with Mary 328 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:20.680 in Natick. Mary, you a first tonight on Nightside. Appreciate 329 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.319 you phone call. You're on with Jeff Robbins and Sarah 330 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.200 cole Garad Ahead. 331 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.599 Mary, Hi, thank you for having me. 332 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:28.680 You're welcome. 333 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.400 So let me start by saying, so, my name is 334 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.720 doctor Mary bar Halpern. I'm calling from Natick. I am 335 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:39.720 a clinical psychologist and I'm also the director of trauma 336 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.720 training in Parents for Peace, which is an organization that 337 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:48.319 fed radicalization. And interestingly enough, I spoke in the MPa, Sorry, 338 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:53.000 in the Combat Antisemitism Commission that was right before this 339 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.799 one with next Page, and I think what we're missing 340 00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.480 from this conversation is the outcome of what's happening. So 341 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:04.000 since October seventh, I've been seeing in my clinic a 342 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.599 lot of Jewish students and a lot of Israeli students 343 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:12.599 who are battling the depression and trauma and anxiety and 344 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:16.079 are afraid of going to school and are avoiding and 345 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:19.759 are isolating because of what's going on. And I really 346 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.319 do see it as something of failed education. As what 347 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.079 we think from the MPa, this is not just an 348 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.680 education issue. This is a social issue. This is what 349 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.599 leads to radicalization. And more than that, from what I'm 350 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.440 seeing through Parents for Peace is that this is word 351 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:41.000 toward what was being said back then and now also 352 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:46.200 by nail nazing and by white supremacists as well. 353 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:52.680 Okay, so I think I understand your perspective, and if 354 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.559 either Jeff or Sarah want a comment, they can, or 355 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:58.960 if you when they finish, if you have a question 356 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:04.240 for either of them, You're welcome to that question. Jeff, Sarah, 357 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:06.240 can you respond to what the caller had to say? 358 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:08.839 Well, I've got a comment on that is that? And 359 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:13.359 this is something Dan that you have been really vigorously, 360 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:18.160 robustly talking about for quite some time, is that the 361 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:23.240 effort to scare the Bejesus out of Jewish kids and 362 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:28.279 Jewish faculty on campus, by organizations like Students for Justice 363 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:32.240 in Palestine or by similar groups. It is aimed at 364 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:37.160 driving people underground, kids underground. It is aimed at depressing them, 365 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.480 as the caller says, and making them ashamed. And the 366 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.240 goal is that nefarious. It seems to me. It is 367 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:49.799 to basically intimidate people into silence and break them emotionally. 368 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.160 I don't think that's an overstatement. So what the caller 369 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:57.039 is talking about as the effect of this stuff, I 370 00:23:57.079 --> 00:23:59.359 think is the intent of this stuff. 371 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.839 Well, we've seen this whole resurgence of antisemitism, overt anti 372 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:08.359 semitism in the wake of October seventh. All of us 373 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:13.880 know about the hostage placards which have been torn down 374 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:19.119 in public places and off the fences of residents who 375 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:22.319 put those placards up to keep alive the memory of 376 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.960 these hostages. The anti Semitism has always been there, but 377 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:31.519 in recent months after October seventh, it became much more 378 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.400 overt and much more out there than anything I had 379 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:38.440 ever seen during my lifetime. And I'd love to know 380 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:41.480 if Jeff Sarah agree with that. I'd also love to 381 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:43.119 know if the doctor agrees with that. 382 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:46.319 I'm Sarah on one hundred percent agree. 383 00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:48.960 And I just want to highlight what doctor mar Halpern 384 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.079 said in what she sort of eloquently testified about before 385 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.440 the commission. We're talking here about the real world impact 386 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:58.559 of the hate that is already being experienced and the 387 00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.319 way that juition is really student are not only going 388 00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:04.440 through the trauma that these events have brought about, but 389 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:09.079 also being told that their experience doesn't matter. And I 390 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.440 just want to clarify something I said earlier. I probably 391 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:15.559 used the curriculum a little too loosely. Maxag in his 392 00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:19.200 testimony over and over sort of emphasize that this wasn't curriculum. 393 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.640 These are resources for teachers to reach for. But I 394 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:25.119 think ultimately the impact of it, if teachers are using 395 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:29.240 these resources to inform their teaching in the classroom, it is. 396 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.039 But I think we need to be very laser focused 397 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.160 on the experience that doctor mar Halburn has been studying 398 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:42.160 of Jewish and Israeli students already. When you're talking about 399 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.799 this kind of institutionalization of some of that hate, like 400 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:50.319 it's not enough what we're experiencing already, but bringing a 401 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:54.039