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<v Speaker 1>Finally, helloly, hello, Hey, how's it going. That's all right? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>other than that, I'm in a very bad place right now, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland, Northern Ireland. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, like you spend a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>time abroad and you're like, oh, I see, Which is

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<v Speaker 1>not to say that like France is not also constantly

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<v Speaker 1>teaching on the verge of becoming fascist, but at least

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<v Speaker 1>shit works there. Like you go over there and like

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<v Speaker 1>their roads are all nice, right, Like all of their

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<v Speaker 1>town centers have like open shops in them. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>like it's really clean and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I sometimes I do. I do think about how

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<v Speaker 2>like France was like a couple of a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>legislative maneuvers and like fuck ups away from having Marine

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<v Speaker 2>lipin right now as or president or whatever it was.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I think she got done for something now.

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<v Speaker 2>Though, so yeah, and now that, but she got done

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<v Speaker 2>by people who are like even more reactionary than she

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<v Speaker 2>is as far as no, yeah, so yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you know, don't you don't have to like say

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<v Speaker 1>like so like I don't want to go so far

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<v Speaker 1>as to say that I'm like a Frond's apologist. But

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<v Speaker 1>I do think it's good there that like sometimes you

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<v Speaker 1>can see like a firefighter throw a flaming garbage bin

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<v Speaker 1>at a cop, and also like there's stuff works. That's all.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all. Yeahs are probably related to.

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<v Speaker 2>Be fair, to be fair, Yeah, I don't I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what I would do if I went to like

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<v Speaker 2>going to another place. I really don't know how I

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<v Speaker 2>would handle it, because I'd be like this, you just

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<v Speaker 2>have you just have buses and trains. They go to

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<v Speaker 2>places there aren't like you just I don't even like

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<v Speaker 2>I would, I wouldn't even know. I don't even know

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<v Speaker 2>what to do. I wouldn't know what to do with

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<v Speaker 2>that because I would literally like I would be like

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<v Speaker 2>the like the medieval peasant thing, like my mind blown

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<v Speaker 2>every second of every minute just by like tiny things

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<v Speaker 2>I see, you know it like yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like I mean and granted, like one of the things.

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<v Speaker 1>So it is true, like it is a fundamental fact

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<v Speaker 1>that one of the things that's going on over there

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<v Speaker 1>that makes it better than here is that they're still

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<v Speaker 1>in the EU. Now, to be clear, you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>against Fortress Europe. I think that it's bad and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't like it. But also like the reasons why we

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<v Speaker 1>hear in the UK left that you have nothing to

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<v Speaker 1>do with how racist it is as an institution, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>And it's like and it still exists as this terrible

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<v Speaker 1>racist institution, but at least like they'll give you money

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<v Speaker 1>for like your roads or like a theater or to

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<v Speaker 1>like pay for things. And so now we just like

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<v Speaker 1>don't have any of that, and our government doesn't pay

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<v Speaker 1>for anything. So everything is just like falling apart in

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<v Speaker 1>real time here, and when you go to places where

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<v Speaker 1>they're still investing in stuff, it's just it makes you

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<v Speaker 1>so angry, Like it makes me so angry that we

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<v Speaker 1>just don't have a force of political will to do

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<v Speaker 1>anything to improve life. It's like the the just like

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<v Speaker 1>the governing consensus here in the United Kingdom is that

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<v Speaker 1>this is as good as things can be. Like they

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<v Speaker 1>just get they can't get better, sorry, Like better things

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<v Speaker 1>aren't possible. It has to be exactly like this. And

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, oh, okay, word, you know, like we've had

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<v Speaker 1>like all of these riots with like the fascists like

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<v Speaker 1>again lately, and the government here just keeps being like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>they've got really legitimate concerns, damn And you're like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's crazy. Then meanwhile, over the.

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<v Speaker 2>Weekend, Oh okay.

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<v Speaker 1>The police arrested like four hundred and fifty old people

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<v Speaker 1>yeah again, yeah yeah, for writing two sentences on a

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<v Speaker 1>on a poster. So it's like it's so like that

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<v Speaker 1>is those concerns are not legitimate. The only concerns that

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<v Speaker 1>can be legitimate are the concerns of fascists. And the

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<v Speaker 1>only thing that things can do is get more racist.

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<v Speaker 1>They can't get better or fairer or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's like, I mean, I'm not saying that

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<v Speaker 1>France isn't racist, obviously, it very much is. But also

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<v Speaker 1>you get to like eat a stick.

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<v Speaker 2>The time tradition there, God damn it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, you know, but at least I would get

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<v Speaker 1>to eat a stik tartar like on a nice square

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<v Speaker 1>that is pretty when you watch trams go by, and

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, god damn it. Anyway, yeah, like I'm fine,

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<v Speaker 1>everything's fine. It's fine, isn't it. Things are fine?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I'm fine.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah oh man.

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<v Speaker 1>Like seriously, though, like I when I got off the plane,

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<v Speaker 1>the first thing that happened was in the airport. One

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<v Speaker 1>of the escalators wasn't working, and then I got down

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<v Speaker 1>to the train station and my train was delayed, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, yep, we're definitely back, yep. Oh hm hm.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, I see, uh yeah, I can't. I just like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just it's just sad. I don't even know. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's what are you gonna do?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, what are you gonna do?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like it's it's you know, I don't like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>even know what to say about it. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what to say about it because I don't like, I

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<v Speaker 2>can't like, I can't get a handle on what's going

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<v Speaker 2>on at any point. I you know, I am. I

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<v Speaker 2>am heartened by the Corbin Party. However, that name that changed.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So to be clear, that's the intention, that's the

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<v Speaker 1>intention of it, is that they're gonna they're gonna have

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<v Speaker 1>a vote on it. Weren't on the street. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know who said this through, but uh, Justin

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<v Speaker 1>just sent me over a thing right before we started recording.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know where he got it from, but I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to read it out word for word. Anyway, because

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<v Speaker 1>we love this like it's at the top of it.

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<v Speaker 1>It says the Horny People's Party for the Many, not

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<v Speaker 1>the screw, thank you very much. That says we may

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<v Speaker 1>not officially know what the Corbin and Sultana Party is

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<v Speaker 1>called yet. Popular suggestions so far include both of the

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<v Speaker 1>People's Party and Arise, but we do know one thing.

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<v Speaker 1>They are shaggers. So so far, internal car columns has

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<v Speaker 1>been full of stories about inner party banging amongst volunteers

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<v Speaker 1>and junior staffers, and already they've got a slightly surprising

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<v Speaker 1>reputation for horniness. Still, though it could be worse, the

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<v Speaker 1>Carbonicea Sultanas are the least are at least relieved that

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<v Speaker 1>they don't have the same reputation as junior stafferers in

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<v Speaker 1>Reform who are becoming known for their phenomenal ghakiness. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there you go, listening. I'm doing light. I'm doing light

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<v Speaker 1>Green Party entryism at the moment. So I joined the

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<v Speaker 1>Green Party to vote for Zach Polanski and we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to see how that goes down, because I think I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if you've seen any of his campaign materials,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's really good, Like he's got that thing like,

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<v Speaker 1>he's really sharp, he's to the point, and he's trying

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<v Speaker 1>to do socialism over there. And also he's floated at

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<v Speaker 1>the very least the possibility of a coalition with whatever

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<v Speaker 1>the Corbon Party is. So I'm trying to push them left.

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<v Speaker 1>But if I don't stay in, if I voted for

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<v Speaker 1>him and I got the outcome I wanted, that's good.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so I if that doesn't work out, then

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go for the corbord one. But I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, you know, positive positive developments on both sides

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<v Speaker 2>of the pond in that regard. I think I am

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<v Speaker 2>not a member of DSA. I was in the past.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't leave because I had problem had huge problems

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<v Speaker 2>with them. I left because I moved and they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really have one here anymore. It got disbanded for various

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<v Speaker 2>and sundry reasons. But the DSA at their most recent

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<v Speaker 2>convention apparently voted as far as I can tell, to

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<v Speaker 2>do away with their old delegate system. And I mean

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<v Speaker 2>it kind of opened it up to socialist communist entryism

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<v Speaker 2>into the part to a degree. Uh, And I think

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<v Speaker 2>that is good. I think they can use the structure

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<v Speaker 2>that they have to do a lot of good and

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<v Speaker 2>set themselves up as like a temp post as a party,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. I uh, I the only you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>only thing is like they there, there are still some

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<v Speaker 2>Zionists in there, and they have to be removed. I

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there were some votes on stuff, and they

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<v Speaker 2>did thankfully vote to become a aggressive anti Zionist party,

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<v Speaker 2>but they you know, some people voted against that for

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<v Speaker 2>like various reasons, and some people voted against it because

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<v Speaker 2>they are Zionist. And you know, they have to make

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<v Speaker 2>those zone in those internal decisions. But you know, any

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<v Speaker 2>any org at this point, if you are forming it,

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<v Speaker 2>it is leftists. You're doing leftist entryism. It's already a

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<v Speaker 2>Marxist party whatever it is. You know, Israel, like the

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<v Speaker 2>genocide has to be a red line. You can't like,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't have any kind of like apologists in therefore,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't have people doing that like from a messaging standpoint,

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<v Speaker 2>that's bad and uh, it's you know, counterintuitive to what

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<v Speaker 2>we're trying to do now. So yeah, that's my thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Wherever you are, if you're hearing me, I you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's uh, you gotta remove those people like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and each ORG can go through their own

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<v Speaker 2>procedures for how to do that. It's not for me

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<v Speaker 2>to say exactly how that's done. But I mean I

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<v Speaker 2>think you have to do it or you're not considered

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<v Speaker 2>a serious ORG.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, I feel it.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel to everyone, uh not just DSA. As I said,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very very proud of you guys. Thank you. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>the Mark sister are going to be piling into that thing,

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<v Speaker 2>like like the disease is trying to get through the

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<v Speaker 2>door and that the episode of The Simpsons where mister

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<v Speaker 2>Burns has all the diseases and the guys like pushing

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<v Speaker 2>all the little things through a doorway. Anyway, Yeah, this

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<v Speaker 2>is a this is an audio medium. Everybody knows exactly

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm talking about. Yeah, uh yeah, it's uh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there's you know, bad stuff but uh but but uh

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<v Speaker 2>but good good uh some good things. And I don't

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<v Speaker 2>and I really think that I was talking about this

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<v Speaker 2>in the discord, but I really think that we have

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<v Speaker 2>to get away from like saying like everyone feels this way,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone feels everyone is like this. Everyone does this not

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<v Speaker 2>because I don't like not because it's like oh not

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<v Speaker 2>all whatever, but because I think saying everyone like that

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<v Speaker 2>just increases like defeatism and nihilism, and it's counterproductive to

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<v Speaker 2>what we're trying to do here because like, it's not everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>Like in all of the western countries I know of

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<v Speaker 2>the people are completely opposed to what the leadership is

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<v Speaker 2>doing on things like on on like Gaza and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, so it's not everyone. And I do think

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<v Speaker 2>that people like make themselves very defeatist and very and

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, stuff like that. It's you know, Graham,

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<v Speaker 2>she said it, you know, pessimism of the intellect, optimism

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<v Speaker 2>of the spirit. But occasionally there you do have to

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<v Speaker 2>have a little bit of optimism of the intellect because

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<v Speaker 2>it's not everyone. If it was everyone, you wouldn't see

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<v Speaker 2>these poles, you wouldn't see these protests. They wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>trying to arrest eighty five year old people with one

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<v Speaker 2>leg in you know, New Shropshire, sure to Lund, England

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever, for if their position in this was secure.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not. It's a failing position, and you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>is what it is. So there's there's no reason to

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<v Speaker 2>seed all of that to it just because annoying and

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<v Speaker 2>shitty people are in power, you know. Yeah, these political

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<v Speaker 2>systems are in are are beyond imperfect. They're corrupt and awful.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, bad people are going to get into power

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<v Speaker 2>in them. That's just I mean, that's that's how it like,

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<v Speaker 2>that's how it goes, you know. I'm sorry. Uh, and

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<v Speaker 2>that sucks, but it is. You know, you just got

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<v Speaker 2>to keep going anyway. Yeah, yeah, let's uh, let's get

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<v Speaker 2>to talking about this. Uh, get into the show because yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we got some stuff to cover here, Yeah, we sure do. Yeah, Hello,

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<v Speaker 2>and welcome back to We Are Not So Different, a

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<v Speaker 2>podcast about how we've always been idiots. My name is

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<v Speaker 2>Luke and as all as, I'm joined by doctor Eleanor Jennege,

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<v Speaker 2>and we are here to talk about We actually had

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of separate things to discuss today, but before

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<v Speaker 2>we get into it, we got a question from Arcturus,

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<v Speaker 2>one of our patrons. He said, many times I've heard

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<v Speaker 2>people compare the Trump administration to a medieval court, in

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<v Speaker 2>the sense that it's filled with yes men who grovel

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<v Speaker 2>around him in hopes of gaining power and or money.

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<v Speaker 2>But to what extent we're with medieval courts? Actually? Like this,

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<v Speaker 2>is it to some extent a modern assumption. I imagine a

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<v Speaker 2>lot would depend on the individual monarch, but in general,

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<v Speaker 2>would groveling around a medieval monarch actually actually get you

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<v Speaker 2>much in the way it seems too for republican politicians,

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<v Speaker 2>or would the monarch and everyone else simply have contempt

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<v Speaker 2>for such sickophants.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, depends on the monarch, you know, like, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I struggle to think of a time in

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<v Speaker 2>history where monarchs haven't been flattered into giving stuff by

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<v Speaker 2>sycophants like oh yeah, any like I don't. I might

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<v Speaker 2>dare say that any monarch, any emperor who's ever lived,

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<v Speaker 2>has been like, has had at least one person like,

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<v Speaker 2>even the most straight shooting ones of them all, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>have one guy's like, sir, but your sister's cousin lives here,

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<v Speaker 2>and they could use a new grain silo or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>He's like, you know what, you're right, here's twenty thousand

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<v Speaker 2>ducats and he's like, but sir, there's only nineteen thousand.

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<v Speaker 2>He's like, keep a little extra for yourself. Yeah, eleanor yeah, anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to believe that hasn't happened every time anyone's

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<v Speaker 2>been in powered throughout Oh oh, for.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, and it's like, you know, don't get me wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes that's just the homies. But if you think the

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<v Speaker 1>homies aren't in there flattering, of course they are. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know so that there's always going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>certain amount of finangling going on. And you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>see the sort of interpersonal and inter palace conflict play

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<v Speaker 1>out all the time. So I'm think you hear like

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<v Speaker 1>a really good example of sort of like what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on in when you read Procopius's Secret History, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>when he's all like, secretly, this is what was going on,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like, you know, none of that was true, I

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<v Speaker 1>would wager, But the point is he's still in there

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<v Speaker 1>kissing ass. You know. Homeboy is like filating the boot

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<v Speaker 1>on the regular and then going home and writing his

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<v Speaker 1>little weird like porn fantasies at the same time. And

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<v Speaker 1>that just kind of gives you an idea of like

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<v Speaker 1>an average courtier, right, So that's like he's doing all

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<v Speaker 1>of that behind the books to like blow off steam,

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<v Speaker 1>but it just kind of shows us what he's doing

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<v Speaker 1>in real life actually, And you know, certainly we can

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<v Speaker 1>see that particular families will be in power, out of power,

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<v Speaker 1>or connected to people. And I mean you tend to

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<v Speaker 1>see more of it with worst kings, right and like

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<v Speaker 1>you know that, yeah, like and obviously the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>go down in history like as the worst, most bullshit

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<v Speaker 1>kings you've ever seen in your life, they're a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more susceptible to it, right. So the people who simply

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<v Speaker 1>cannot stop giving away shit to their favorites, those are

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<v Speaker 1>the ones we really know about. Like think about here,

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<v Speaker 1>like Edward the Second and his series of boyfriends, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and like the way he did giving the dispensers everything

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<v Speaker 1>they ever wanted and pissing off the entire kingdom. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>that goes like above slightly because that's about who you're

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<v Speaker 1>actually fucking, I guess.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's like, I mean, would that be too dissimilar

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<v Speaker 2>from this, Like I'm not saying that Trump is fucking anyone,

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<v Speaker 2>but there are people who are getting into these positions

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<v Speaker 2>by fucking people, you know, by yeah, oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, I mean, and I do think that like

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<v Speaker 1>sexuality is always like in there in one way or another.

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<v Speaker 1>That's just another way of currying favor in theory, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>So that that is certainly happening. And I mean you

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<v Speaker 1>can always kind of buy your way in. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's certainly true that money has always been at play,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And I guess what you tend to see

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<v Speaker 1>from like good kings or smart kings is what they

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<v Speaker 1>are able to do was kind of like turn the

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<v Speaker 1>people with money who are obviously against them, sort of

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<v Speaker 1>away from themselves and towards other objects.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So, for example, like there's an ongoing hate fest in

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<v Speaker 1>Bohemia between whoever is fucking king, you know, like usually

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<v Speaker 1>the Chevy Slits against the Rosenberks, who are a massively

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<v Speaker 1>powerful royal noble family. Sorry, And like what Charles the

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<v Speaker 1>Fourth does when he gets in is he'll give them

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<v Speaker 1>little missions. M m. Well, he'll be like, why don't

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<v Speaker 1>you go do this for me? And like it gives

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<v Speaker 1>them like prestige, and he pays them to do it,

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<v Speaker 1>and it gets them going out and doing things instead

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<v Speaker 1>of scheming against him or attempting to sway him to

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<v Speaker 1>their will. Right. So it's like he does this good

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<v Speaker 1>job of deflecting by saying, go out there and do

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<v Speaker 1>other things, Like he uses them to go around and

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<v Speaker 1>collect preachers that he likes, and which is why I

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<v Speaker 1>know about it, right, And then you certainly see in

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<v Speaker 1>like but then there are all there's always like weird

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<v Speaker 1>things going on, and it's like sometimes it could be

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<v Speaker 1>literally the church that is the sycophant, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>if we look for example.

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<v Speaker 2>At like anytime, uh the anytime the church was in Avignon,

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<v Speaker 2>they were they were they were absolutely sycophantic to to

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<v Speaker 2>the French, French monarch every time, like to yeah, to

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<v Speaker 2>the point that it would like people people at the

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<v Speaker 2>time were like, yeah, they're they're French vassals.

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<v Speaker 1>Like that are yeah, And like you certainly see a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of that with Saint Louis. That certainly comes up.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you see rather a lot of whispering and

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<v Speaker 1>ears at the French court in particular. You know those

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<v Speaker 1>groups that are up, there's groups that are down. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we when we were doing our one Hundred Years War episodes,

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<v Speaker 1>we saw a lot on on that, right, like when

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<v Speaker 1>when the king goes mad, the various parts at play

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<v Speaker 1>and the various groups who are kind of in there.

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<v Speaker 1>And I mean I suppose that this is something, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it certainly this doesn't go away in the early modern period.

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<v Speaker 1>Arguably it only exacerbates. I mean, go look at Louis

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<v Speaker 1>the fourteenth Court, like the ultimate snake pit. But you

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<v Speaker 1>know he's also doing that smart thing, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>Versailles is created very specifically because he brings all the

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<v Speaker 1>nobles there so they can't scheme against him, because if

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<v Speaker 1>all of your power is dependent on you being at

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<v Speaker 1>court and wearing a new dress every day, then you

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<v Speaker 1>don't have any time or money to be out in

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<v Speaker 1>the countryside scheming. You can only be at Versailles. So

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of keeps that stuff. But obviously there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of power plays going on there and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of like really strenuously enforced hierarchies as a result of that.

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean, I guess the other thing too, is like,

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<v Speaker 1>don't get me wrong, obviously we're seeing like Trump is

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<v Speaker 1>a terrible example of everything, right, Like he's the worst

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<v Speaker 1>turned up to eleven most fucked up example of anything

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<v Speaker 1>that you can ever have. But that it's not like

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<v Speaker 1>this hasn't been going on the whole time, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>with everyone. It's not like you know, it's like it's

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<v Speaker 1>you don't even necessarily need to be in the White

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<v Speaker 1>House all the time. You just need to like give

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<v Speaker 1>enough money. Yeah, too, like various things, because I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>what what are like campaign donations are super packs if

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<v Speaker 1>not a form of currying favor, you know, and we

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<v Speaker 1>definitely see kickbacks. So I think that the way it's

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<v Speaker 1>what people are responding to is that with Trump, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's just a little more obvious that there are certain

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<v Speaker 1>people with certain levels of power as opposed to organizations

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<v Speaker 1>with certain levels of power. So I think it's brought

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<v Speaker 1>it back down to the individual more, which is why

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<v Speaker 1>people respond and see it as being more than evil.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean I think with like

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think when they say medieval, it is

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<v Speaker 2>partly you know, derogatory, but also partly that like it

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<v Speaker 2>was the they they had, so they had trouble with

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<v Speaker 2>like subter refused to some degree. So like you can

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<v Speaker 2>kind of see the stuff that they're just like doing,

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<v Speaker 2>and it just plays out and it's very obvious sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>in history, and and you know that's just because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they haven't developed like you know, the advance, like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>how do we market this? How do I advertise it?

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<v Speaker 2>What kind of propaganda? That's not saying they didn't do

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<v Speaker 2>good propaganda or anything, but it's just different and it's

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not trying to say. And so like when you

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<v Speaker 2>see these people coming in and doing this, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>just like coming in and it's like a pay for

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<v Speaker 2>play thing like it there, and and it's been denuded

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<v Speaker 2>of every everything down down to like this like bare

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<v Speaker 2>like farcical representation of government. So like we've just stripped

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<v Speaker 2>it all the way back to you know, the Middle

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<v Speaker 2>Ages or even the classical era or something like that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, where the scheming vizier, the scheming unit, the

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<v Speaker 2>empress dowager who has too much influence, you know, like

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<v Speaker 2>any of these things, any of these tropes that are tropes,

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<v Speaker 2>but they also have basis in reality they've been happening.

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<v Speaker 2>But like with this, it's just so out in the

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<v Speaker 2>open that like it really is hard to like find

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<v Speaker 2>like this is like this is like real Banana Republic shit.

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<v Speaker 2>And people in America who think themselves better than that

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<v Speaker 2>and always have and in the West for that matter,

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<v Speaker 2>see it and they're scandalized by it because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>even though we've been do administering colonial and post colonial

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<v Speaker 2>states like this for hundreds of years, people in the

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<v Speaker 2>Imperial Corps are still dropping monocles, you know, because because

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's like, yeah, pay for play, which like it's always

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<v Speaker 2>been all politics has been paid for play, like the

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<v Speaker 2>whole time. It's just they're not hiding it, and that

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<v Speaker 2>bothers people.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that I agree with you. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that one of the major problems that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people have with Trump, like especially from the right, you know, like, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>is it's about politess. It's about the fact that you're

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to do a better job of hiding it than this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's supposed to be much more cloak and dagger, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>so we were not supposed to kind of see the

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<v Speaker 1>seemi underbelly of politics, which certainly exists and has always existed.

413
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:47.599
<v Speaker 1>And I mean, I do think that it is kind

414
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:51.359
<v Speaker 1>of problematic the way, as you say, people always want

415
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.079
<v Speaker 1>to say, Okay, well then it's like it's like a

416
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.000
<v Speaker 1>medieval court. I'm like, in what way is it more

417
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.319
<v Speaker 1>like a medieval court than I don't know, like the

418
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.559
<v Speaker 1>tutors like like look at Honda the eighth Court, Like

419
00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:04.880
<v Speaker 1>it's not like that, and if so, look at the.

420
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.839
<v Speaker 2>Debauch like look at the debauched courts of you know,

421
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>like Louis the fourteenth, Louis the sixth, Like not for

422
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:14.319
<v Speaker 2>Louis the fourteenth because he was very small, but like

423
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:18.799
<v Speaker 2>Louis the sixteenth, look at the the the the Tzars

424
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:21.680
<v Speaker 2>as they wound down towards the end, like they were

425
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:27.000
<v Speaker 2>getting fooled by like some some He'llbilly mystic who like

426
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.319
<v Speaker 2>because they were so inbred they could like he was

427
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.680
<v Speaker 2>just staring them down. Everybody else's like, why are you

428
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:36.359
<v Speaker 2>guys enthralled by this? And they were like he is magic, Like,

429
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:39.599
<v Speaker 2>how is that any different than than any of this?

430
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:42.680
<v Speaker 1>It's yeah, it's not. But I mean I do think

431
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:45.160
<v Speaker 1>that also there is this tendency to kind of roll

432
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.279
<v Speaker 1>every court ever together and call it medieval, and I

433
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:51.319
<v Speaker 1>think it is. One of these interesting things is that

434
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:58.880
<v Speaker 1>people people failed to engage with the fact that monarchy

435
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:02.799
<v Speaker 1>continue for quite some time, right, like, and that it

436
00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:06.480
<v Speaker 1>took the Communist Revolution to bring it down in Russia.

437
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:09.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, here it still exists, right and there's still

438
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:15.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of wild shit happening. And you know, when you

439
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.759
<v Speaker 1>look at how we needed World War two or World

440
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:19.480
<v Speaker 1>War one to sort a lot of this shit out

441
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:24.400
<v Speaker 1>here in Europe, that that is just something that is

442
00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:26.359
<v Speaker 1>fundamentally true, and it's something that is still in play

443
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:32.240
<v Speaker 1>and certainly you know, for example, here the if you

444
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.359
<v Speaker 1>want to look at the government, which I don't, but

445
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, like the government is completely enthralled to the

446
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.880
<v Speaker 1>royalty here. Like so for example, there was like a

447
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.480
<v Speaker 1>big thing, this was years ago now where they kind

448
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:44.920
<v Speaker 1>of like went and looked at who owned all of

449
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Scotland and turned most it turned out most of it

450
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:50.519
<v Speaker 1>was the Queen and everyone was like huh, like it

451
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.160
<v Speaker 1>seems bad and they were gonna do it with England

452
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:55.400
<v Speaker 1>as well, and basically the Queen stepped in and was like,

453
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 1>please don't do this.

454
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.359
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, we remember we did an episode on that

455
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.319
<v Speaker 2>article from I think it was last year about like

456
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 2>how what the king what the King and the Prince

457
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:09.920
<v Speaker 2>of Wales's own and you know they are in the

458
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:11.759
<v Speaker 2>hospital bays and shit like that.

459
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:16.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah yeah, and so like that is in theory

460
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of the other way around. Like in theory, the

461
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:21.119
<v Speaker 1>government is supposed to be in control here, but you

462
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 1>know you've got the royals who are able to pull

463
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:27.319
<v Speaker 1>these strings. And okay, so yeah, we're a backwards place,

464
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, in that we have a monarchy et cetera,

465
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.119
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. But the point is there are always these interests.

466
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.480
<v Speaker 1>There's always going to be like and provided money exists

467
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.039
<v Speaker 1>in these contexts, and you know, there isn't massive reform,

468
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:43.480
<v Speaker 1>which I don't know, maybe there will be, you know,

469
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:45.079
<v Speaker 1>where war was going on about it. We always talk

470
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.240
<v Speaker 1>about how I think when we started this show, I

471
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.839
<v Speaker 1>didn't really think we were in a pre revolutionary moment,

472
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:52.160
<v Speaker 1>and now I do think we are.

473
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, we Yeah, I definitely think we are. Now

474
00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:03.680
<v Speaker 2>I think we've I think uh, the I think the uh,

475
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.799
<v Speaker 2>the perilous nature, the precarity that people feel, the existential

476
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:12.200
<v Speaker 2>nature of everything coming together, uh, the situation in Gauza,

477
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:17.079
<v Speaker 2>the way that immigration is happening, concentration camps popping up,

478
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Government's not really giving a shit about it. This is

479
00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:25.680
<v Speaker 2>this is push. This is pushing people much further uh

480
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:28.519
<v Speaker 2>as it always has in the past. This is pushing

481
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:32.680
<v Speaker 2>people to uh to the left. You know people, people

482
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:34.799
<v Speaker 2>are are moving beyond that.

483
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:35.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

484
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:36.359
<v Speaker 2>I definitely think we are.

485
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.640
<v Speaker 1>So yeah yeah, And I mean I think that that's

486
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:42.880
<v Speaker 1>really the only thing that can eliminate what we have

487
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.400
<v Speaker 1>at the moment. And I guess, yeah, the point is

488
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.400
<v Speaker 1>that Trump is a really gross, over the top example

489
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:51.839
<v Speaker 1>of this sort of thing. But actually I think that

490
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.400
<v Speaker 1>really the early modern courts are are worse for it

491
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.440
<v Speaker 1>than the medieval ones. The medieval ones there's lived a

492
00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:02.440
<v Speaker 1>little more I think, I mean, there's a little more God.

493
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:04.559
<v Speaker 1>I guess there's a little more God, which kind of

494
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.480
<v Speaker 1>restrains people a little bit. But that but also I

495
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:07.799
<v Speaker 1>guess I don't know what I'm saying.

496
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I would really say that I don't really think there's

497
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:12.519
<v Speaker 2>much of a difference. I just think it changes, like

498
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:16.240
<v Speaker 2>technology changes, what you see changes, their ability to like

499
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:20.720
<v Speaker 2>hide and mask and and politicize and propagandize certain things.

500
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Uh changes, But like I mean, you've still got people

501
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:28.839
<v Speaker 2>doing power plays, you got powerful families, you got moneyed

502
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:32.839
<v Speaker 2>interest doing things you gotta, you gotta scheming, Vizier buying

503
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.640
<v Speaker 2>his way into the government and then running it as

504
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:39.920
<v Speaker 2>a shadow chancellor, which is, you know, a big you

505
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:45.240
<v Speaker 2>know thing throughout history. Like it's it's not it's I

506
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:47.960
<v Speaker 2>think the reason people feel this way about this, like

507
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:50.799
<v Speaker 2>if I'm if, I'm if, I'm like, okay, fine, Like

508
00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:53.359
<v Speaker 2>maybe they're not being derogatory to the Middle Ages. I

509
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.079
<v Speaker 2>just think it's so crass that people just have to

510
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:00.079
<v Speaker 2>reach for like you know, another crass age or something

511
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:01.920
<v Speaker 2>like that, and I don't know why they wouldn't stick

512
00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:05.279
<v Speaker 2>to some point in versailla or anything. But you know, hey, uh,

513
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:07.039
<v Speaker 2>I guess there are a lot of There are a

514
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of gestures around now, folks, so uh, yeah, yeah

515
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.480
<v Speaker 2>it's medieval. Hey, I'm sorry, Yeah, yeah, I need a

516
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.680
<v Speaker 2>mix of yeah, denegatory towards Medieval the Middle Ages, and

517
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:21.799
<v Speaker 2>then you know, some of it. It's just like I

518
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.640
<v Speaker 2>don't fucking know, man, it's real. It's it's a fucking

519
00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:26.759
<v Speaker 2>clown show out there, and I gotta be honest, it

520
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>does kind of remind me of like a medieval like

521
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:31.920
<v Speaker 2>gesture troop rolling through kind of deal.

522
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:35.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, And like I mean, for example, I don't

523
00:31:35.079 --> 00:31:39.359
<v Speaker 1>find it that like, I don't find it particularly bad

524
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:41.440
<v Speaker 1>because it's like I don't know, like John the first

525
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:44.359
<v Speaker 1>he did ship like this, ever the second dishow like

526
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're there are all kinds of kings where

527
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:47.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh yeah, like I could see them doing

528
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:51.519
<v Speaker 1>that absolutely, you know, but I guess that I think

529
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.519
<v Speaker 1>VERSI more often. But then, to be fair to the

530
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:56.440
<v Speaker 1>average person, I think they don't realize that versall isn't medieval,

531
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 1>because I don't think that is true. I don't think

532
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.720
<v Speaker 1>people don't know what medieval is, and that's so that's fair.

533
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah you know.

534
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, like you know, you got people they're like, yeah,

535
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.559
<v Speaker 2>ever saw that was like what like sixteen hundreds, like

536
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, and you're like, well, not really but uh

537
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:15.960
<v Speaker 2>well kind yeah but not you know, and they're like yeah,

538
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.359
<v Speaker 2>sixteen hundreds and you're like fifteen hundreds is kind of medieval,

539
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:20.799
<v Speaker 2>and you're like okay, yeah sure, and you're just like

540
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:21.400
<v Speaker 2>wait what.

541
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, I trying and I

542
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:28.720
<v Speaker 1>guess that people are trying to voice their displeasure with

543
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.720
<v Speaker 1>a with a fucked up situation. So I'm not here

544
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 1>to be like actually actually but h.

545
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:35.839
<v Speaker 2>Random people go ahead.

546
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:38.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I was just gonna say, I guess that this

547
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:40.319
<v Speaker 1>sort of has just always kind of been around, so

548
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:44.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's maybe we've attempted to control for it,

549
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:46.039
<v Speaker 1>but we've never been successful at it.

550
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:50.799
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah, random people online doing it. You know,

551
00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:52.599
<v Speaker 2>like I might be like, all right, come on now,

552
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 2>but you know, like with journalists and stuff, you got

553
00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:57.680
<v Speaker 2>no excuse fucking like you know, yeah yea, yeah, like

554
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:00.599
<v Speaker 2>be less Laly, come on, if you you know, if

555
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 2>you're if you're you know, tying it to a specific

556
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:05.640
<v Speaker 2>medieval thing or something you want to make the Guster's joke.

557
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:07.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's kind of corny, but okay, fine, you know,

558
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:10.519
<v Speaker 2>but outside of that, you know, would be like, this

559
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.839
<v Speaker 2>is no different than the court of any of the

560
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:18.200
<v Speaker 2>debauched Droman emperors, or the debauched French kings, or the

561
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:25.200
<v Speaker 2>debauched nineteenth century or the debauched Ottomans or like or

562
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:28.359
<v Speaker 2>the debauched Clinton's or the debauched Trump's.

563
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.200
<v Speaker 1>Pot the debauched ming you know, yeah.

564
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:36.839
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, yeah, sorry, yeah, our characterists, thank you very much

565
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:39.400
<v Speaker 2>for the question. We're only gonna do one today, folks,

566
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.720
<v Speaker 2>because we have We're gonna be talking about another question

567
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:46.240
<v Speaker 2>in just second. But today I wanted to say, uh,

568
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:51.839
<v Speaker 2>we're not gonna plug the Pictreon because the situation in

569
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Gauza is desperate. We should have done this a long

570
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:58.039
<v Speaker 2>time ago, and I just I haven't done it. I

571
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:02.319
<v Speaker 2>haven't talked about it on here, but please donate any

572
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:08.599
<v Speaker 2>money you can spare. There are thousands upon thousands of

573
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:13.079
<v Speaker 2>individual accounts on uh you know, you could see him

574
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.079
<v Speaker 2>on Blue Sky people advertising him on Blue Sky, Twitter,

575
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:20.800
<v Speaker 2>wherever you are. You know, usually they're they're being advertised

576
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:24.360
<v Speaker 2>through a place called chuffed dot org, which I've seen

577
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.639
<v Speaker 2>people say does sound like kind of a fake thing,

578
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:29.119
<v Speaker 2>but it's not. I promise I've donated through there. It's

579
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:33.519
<v Speaker 2>it's real. It's it's a real thing. These are verified.

580
00:34:33.639 --> 00:34:37.400
<v Speaker 2>But also there's uh and I'll try to include links.

581
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 2>There's the Samir Project, which does food and aid and

582
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:44.840
<v Speaker 2>also has like a kid's camp that they try to

583
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.159
<v Speaker 2>run so that kids can kind of try to have

584
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:52.039
<v Speaker 2>a normal life there. Uh, Lifeline for Gaza is another one.

585
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:56.639
<v Speaker 2>There are some I'm missing eleanor Medical Aid for Okay, yeah,

586
00:34:56.679 --> 00:34:57.039
<v Speaker 2>go ahead.

587
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:01.559
<v Speaker 1>Medical Aid for Palestinians is a real great org as well,

588
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:05.559
<v Speaker 1>doing a lot of on the ground work, So shout

589
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:10.719
<v Speaker 1>them out. Yeah, you know, we are all very concerned

590
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:14.280
<v Speaker 1>about our comrades in Gaza. You know, if you're on

591
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:18.159
<v Speaker 1>blue Sky, you can see I try to kind of

592
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:21.840
<v Speaker 1>like big up the various accounts that are attempting to

593
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:29.000
<v Speaker 1>get some help, and you know, it's a horrifying situation. Obviously,

594
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:31.840
<v Speaker 1>there's only so much that we can do as individuals,

595
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.920
<v Speaker 1>but you know, let your inner anarchists out and attempt

596
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.400
<v Speaker 1>to do some mutual aid, you know, like grounded. These

597
00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:40.960
<v Speaker 1>people can't help us back, but I think we can

598
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.559
<v Speaker 1>all agree that their continued survival is good for all

599
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:48.280
<v Speaker 1>of us here on the planet. So yeah, anything that

600
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:49.880
<v Speaker 1>you can spare at the moment, if you can send

601
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.400
<v Speaker 1>it towards our friends in Palestine, that would be great.

602
00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:54.800
<v Speaker 2>A dollar, two dollars.

603
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:58.519
<v Speaker 1>Literally, anything like a doll a dollar for them is

604
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:00.360
<v Speaker 1>a big deal, you know. And if we all kind

605
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.840
<v Speaker 1>of like gave a dollar to someone every day, they'd

606
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 1>all be doing a little better, you know.

607
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:09.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, one thing I've seen suggested is like

608
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.159
<v Speaker 2>pick a couple of you know, campaigns, individual campaigns if

609
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.119
<v Speaker 2>you want, and just slide them a couple bucks every month.

610
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Like it. Like, things are tight here for a lot

611
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:25.280
<v Speaker 2>of people completely everywhere, not not America, not just America,

612
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.199
<v Speaker 2>not just the West. Everywhere in the world. Things are

613
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:30.320
<v Speaker 2>getting tight for regular people and we're all getting squeezed.

614
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.840
<v Speaker 2>But you know, these people, you know, especially in the

615
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.039
<v Speaker 2>Western countries, these people are being killed in our names

616
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:43.599
<v Speaker 2>with our tax dollars. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, that uh,

617
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:46.440
<v Speaker 2>that's what we're doing for today. Folks. Please help those

618
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:52.320
<v Speaker 2>people if you can, just yeah, for the love of

619
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.320
<v Speaker 2>whatever God or.

620
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Spiritual humanity or.

621
00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:07.320
<v Speaker 2>Whatever you you hold sacred, just fuck please anything. Yeah. Anyway, folks,

622
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:11.000
<v Speaker 2>we'll got two topics, and we'll include links for all

623
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:15.559
<v Speaker 2>that stuff in the show notes. Anyway, onto the main show, folks.

624
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.760
<v Speaker 2>We've got two topics for today. We don't normally do

625
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.440
<v Speaker 2>split episodes that often, but sometimes there are a couple

626
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.039
<v Speaker 2>of things on our minds and hearts and doing a

627
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:25.280
<v Speaker 2>whole episode on one of them just wouldn't work for

628
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 2>whatever reason. So here we are. First stuff, we got

629
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:32.840
<v Speaker 2>a question about periodization and the Middle Ages and attempts

630
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:38.079
<v Speaker 2>to reform away from well things words like medieval and

631
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:41.679
<v Speaker 2>Middle Ages and and other things like that. Now, before

632
00:37:41.719 --> 00:37:43.760
<v Speaker 2>you turn off the episode in a fit of rage

633
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.199
<v Speaker 2>that we're covering such a dry topic, at least hear

634
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:49.239
<v Speaker 2>us out. Come on, we can make it fun. Just

635
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.519
<v Speaker 2>give us a chance. But seriously, it's a good question

636
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:53.239
<v Speaker 2>and gives us a chance to go more in depth

637
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 2>on periodization and like, you know, oh why, like why

638
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:01.119
<v Speaker 2>is this just a random one thousand year period that

639
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.679
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really delineated by like technology on the front end,

640
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Like why do we do this, and like, how how

641
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:09.760
<v Speaker 2>do we come up with periods in the first place?

642
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:11.280
<v Speaker 2>If you if you think you come up with a

643
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:14.880
<v Speaker 2>new period, do you just you know, what do you

644
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:16.599
<v Speaker 2>do with it? Do you just write about it and

645
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:21.119
<v Speaker 2>hope people pick it up? Like you know, so yeah,

646
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:22.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's just one of those things like if

647
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.679
<v Speaker 2>you're going to do it about technology, that's fine, but

648
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:26.920
<v Speaker 2>then like you can't apply it to the world at all.

649
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Like if you go by gunpowder, if that's the marker

650
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:31.760
<v Speaker 2>of modernity, then like China got there in like eight ten,

651
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.199
<v Speaker 2>and you know, no, no, it's to China, But I

652
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:40.679
<v Speaker 2>don't think they were really modern in the ninth century,

653
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:45.280
<v Speaker 2>you know. And you know, so where do we draw

654
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:45.880
<v Speaker 2>these lines?

655
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:46.239
<v Speaker 1>Why?

656
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:48.960
<v Speaker 2>And how? And is it really possible to do completely

657
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:54.960
<v Speaker 2>global universal periodizations? Uh? Yeah, we will, you know, we'll

658
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:58.000
<v Speaker 2>discuss then. Since you ate all your dinner and those

659
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.320
<v Speaker 2>awful vegetables that tasted really good, but the way, I

660
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.559
<v Speaker 2>don't want to fucking hear any complain about it. It's

661
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:07.039
<v Speaker 2>time for some dessert. And look, we have to beat

662
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.440
<v Speaker 2>this drum. We've beat the drum before, but it's getting

663
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:11.639
<v Speaker 2>out of hand and we need to address it. We

664
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:15.239
<v Speaker 2>have to talk about what constitutes convert shit for Christians

665
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:19.239
<v Speaker 2>and the growing let's just say ahistorical views on what

666
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:21.679
<v Speaker 2>it meant to be a Christian until I don't know,

667
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.800
<v Speaker 2>like nineteen forty five or so. Because if there's one

668
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.360
<v Speaker 2>thing Christians have always always loved to do, it's cook

669
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.039
<v Speaker 2>up and say new herisies in stupid ways to perceive

670
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.599
<v Speaker 2>divinity and the difference between God and Jesus. We've got

671
00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:36.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of problems with you people. You're gonna hear

672
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:41.159
<v Speaker 2>about them. Yeah, not just yet. One second. First, we

673
00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:45.039
<v Speaker 2>got a question from our patron, Horatio hex He said,

674
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.159
<v Speaker 2>I have a weird question. Are there any attempts to

675
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.760
<v Speaker 2>modernize and quote de westernize end quote the periodization of

676
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:56.039
<v Speaker 2>historical events, especially since we start to have a truly

677
00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:59.360
<v Speaker 2>global view of history or is it too early to

678
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:04.119
<v Speaker 2>even and start thinking about that? And before I let

679
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.519
<v Speaker 2>eleanor go into it, I just want to briefly give

680
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:09.800
<v Speaker 2>you an example of how hard it is to do

681
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:16.920
<v Speaker 2>periodization based on the word feudalism. As we understand, it's

682
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 2>going to take a second. But you know, as we've

683
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.639
<v Speaker 2>discussed several hundred times or so on the show, The

684
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Pyramid of feudalism with the neat little hierarchies paying goods,

685
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.440
<v Speaker 2>services or marshall prowess up the chain until you get

686
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.039
<v Speaker 2>to the king, with reciprocal duties flowing downward and reciprocal

687
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:39.119
<v Speaker 2>military service and the Church enforcing social cohesion is far

688
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.880
<v Speaker 2>far too neat and tidy to reflect reality. China's version

689
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.519
<v Speaker 2>of feudalism that happened much earlier between one thousand and

690
00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:50.159
<v Speaker 2>two forty BCE didn't fit this mold perfectly. They had

691
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:55.159
<v Speaker 2>advanced political bureaucracy and manorial structures similar to the field

692
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:58.519
<v Speaker 2>systems that Europe would use later that govern peasant life,

693
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:03.039
<v Speaker 2>but the military dynamic was not even close. Later in

694
00:41:03.079 --> 00:41:06.159
<v Speaker 2>the eighth the ninth centuries CE is when you could

695
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:08.840
<v Speaker 2>say Europe got the closest to the popular conception of

696
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:12.880
<v Speaker 2>feudalism under the Martels and the Carolingian Empire, which had

697
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:18.559
<v Speaker 2>the reciprocal military service and manorial relationships, but with a

698
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:23.079
<v Speaker 2>state too decentralized and nation to enforce a lot of

699
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:27.079
<v Speaker 2>these precepts, and the Church's power over the superstructure is

700
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.719
<v Speaker 2>not yet total. After that, versions of quasi feudal practices

701
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:35.280
<v Speaker 2>cropped up all over Europe. And other places other parts

702
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.079
<v Speaker 2>of the world for the next thousand years or so,

703
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:41.760
<v Speaker 2>but none of them combined everything together as we understand feudalism. Thus,

704
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:45.480
<v Speaker 2>because the term feudalism is confusing and isn't totally applicable,

705
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:49.119
<v Speaker 2>we mostly use the term manorialism to describe these kinds

706
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:55.320
<v Speaker 2>of social relationships. However, there's always a catch and periodization,

707
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:58.039
<v Speaker 2>and this is no different. We can't actually say that

708
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.400
<v Speaker 2>the popular idea of feudalism never existed in reality because

709
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:04.840
<v Speaker 2>of late fifteenth century and early sixteenth century Japan, which

710
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.800
<v Speaker 2>seemed to combine all aspects of feudalism into a rigid

711
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:12.559
<v Speaker 2>social structure overseen by a universal religious entity. They did

712
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:19.360
<v Speaker 2>extreme reciprocal relationships between peasants and nobles and reciprocal military service,

713
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.119
<v Speaker 2>wherein vassals were given fiefs in exchange for fighting on

714
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:25.440
<v Speaker 2>behalf of the lords and the shogunates. You'll no doubt

715
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.360
<v Speaker 2>remember this from the book and Show shogun. This is

716
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:32.199
<v Speaker 2>really really close to the popular idea of feudalism, which

717
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:35.800
<v Speaker 2>means when periodizing things, we can't fully toss feudalism out

718
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.840
<v Speaker 2>with the bathwater, because it's very sparsely applicable. What's more,

719
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.039
<v Speaker 2>this was happening at the turn of the seventeenth century

720
00:42:42.079 --> 00:42:45.320
<v Speaker 2>in Japan, which is generally agreed to be the early

721
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:49.559
<v Speaker 2>modern period. So you've got Chinese feudalism from before the

722
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:54.159
<v Speaker 2>birth of Christ, European feudalism that filtered out in the

723
00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Middle Ages, and Japanese feudalism well after the age of

724
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.880
<v Speaker 2>exploration and colonialism began. And that's a twenty five hundred

725
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:05.440
<v Speaker 2>year period of history. Oh and before we make any

726
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:09.280
<v Speaker 2>hard and fast recommendations about the use of feudalism, we

727
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:12.400
<v Speaker 2>must remember that it has its own technical definition under

728
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.599
<v Speaker 2>Marxism in the form of the quote feudal mode of

729
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.440
<v Speaker 2>production end quote, which undergirds our present understanding of how

730
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.559
<v Speaker 2>the world works and the dominant modes of production. Everybody

731
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:26.679
<v Speaker 2>now understands that we live under capitalism, and you know

732
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:29.639
<v Speaker 2>that was Marx and Adam Smith to a lesser extent.

733
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:33.000
<v Speaker 2>You know. So if you're going to toss out feudial there,

734
00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:36.400
<v Speaker 2>then we have we're going to have to rework some things.

735
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Not only that, if you want to be hypertechnical about it,

736
00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:41.719
<v Speaker 2>you could break feudalism down into three component parts. First,

737
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the pastoral aspects of the manorial structure, with peasants paying

738
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:48.079
<v Speaker 2>up to lords for housing and protection, second the martial

739
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.760
<v Speaker 2>aspects of reciprocal military duties between liege lords, their vassals

740
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.960
<v Speaker 2>and retainers. And third the superstructural aspect of a monarch

741
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:58.280
<v Speaker 2>or emperor at the top with rigid social dynamics enforced

742
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.559
<v Speaker 2>by the religious entity. By now, it's pretty obvious why

743
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:04.559
<v Speaker 2>periodization is really difficult when you have to coordinate three

744
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.840
<v Speaker 2>different aspects appearing in different places around the world twenty

745
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:10.519
<v Speaker 2>five hundred years apart from one another in some cases,

746
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:14.559
<v Speaker 2>and all of their own little idiosyncrasies based on material conditions.

747
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.719
<v Speaker 2>Eleanor my mouth hurts, What are we to do with this?

748
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:20.159
<v Speaker 1>How?

749
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:25.079
<v Speaker 2>How do academics make sense of this? Like like, where

750
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:26.960
<v Speaker 2>where do you begin? Where do you even begin?

751
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:30.159
<v Speaker 1>Okay? So what I would say is we are trying

752
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.320
<v Speaker 1>to work on this, and so right now there is

753
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:41.440
<v Speaker 1>a specific move towards what we're calling the global Middle ages, okay,

754
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:44.719
<v Speaker 1>and we're defining this and what we're attempting to do

755
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:48.920
<v Speaker 1>in terms of periodization here is we're going by dates. Bitch. Okay, look,

756
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.239
<v Speaker 1>look what what year is it?

757
00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:51.599
<v Speaker 3>Right?

758
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:55.440
<v Speaker 2>That's the only thing you can do here? That's like yep, because.

759
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Because time is like a gratitude, the dating systems aren't

760
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:02.039
<v Speaker 1>all always the same. And like, of course, there are

761
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:06.039
<v Speaker 1>arguments to be made here about kind of forcing European

762
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:09.079
<v Speaker 1>dating on the world, et cetera, et cetera. But what

763
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:13.559
<v Speaker 1>we are kind of settling on for the global Middle

764
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:18.639
<v Speaker 1>Ages is like about five hundred to fifteen hundred. And

765
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.920
<v Speaker 1>the reason we think that this is kind of fruitful

766
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:29.119
<v Speaker 1>is that there are there are parallels in in varying places,

767
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:32.400
<v Speaker 1>like so, for example, the way trade networks work, the

768
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:37.760
<v Speaker 1>way that history itself is recorded, the way and even indeed,

769
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:43.079
<v Speaker 1>whether it is literacy rates, the way that taxes are collected,

770
00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:48.440
<v Speaker 1>things like this, you know, And what we are attempting

771
00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:51.920
<v Speaker 1>to do there is kind of decentralize the idea that like,

772
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:54.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, Europe is doing the four seventy six to

773
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:58.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, fourteen ninety two or fifteen seventeen thing,

774
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:00.559
<v Speaker 1>and then then then that's what the Middle Ages isn't

775
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:07.440
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't happening anywhere else, right, Yeah, so there is

776
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:12.159
<v Speaker 1>so for example, we will look at like the ecology

777
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:16.920
<v Speaker 1>of what's going on in these places or the tech

778
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:20.079
<v Speaker 1>of like how are people building boats. You know, things

779
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:25.400
<v Speaker 1>like this are very very similar across it. And I

780
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:31.440
<v Speaker 1>think that there there is, of course, like a certain

781
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:34.960
<v Speaker 1>level of anxiety still about using using the term medieval

782
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.000
<v Speaker 1>at all in a global context. But I think that

783
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:41.199
<v Speaker 1>the scholars who are doing this work have done a

784
00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:44.119
<v Speaker 1>really great job at kind of like highlighting how there

785
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.400
<v Speaker 1>are are these similarities, right. Like, you know, if if

786
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.960
<v Speaker 1>we're looking, for example, at like the Incan or Aztec

787
00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:54.039
<v Speaker 1>empires stuff like that, then then you could really see

788
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:56.880
<v Speaker 1>a lot of similarities to what's going on, uh you know,

789
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:01.159
<v Speaker 1>for example, I don't know in China, And indeed we

790
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:03.480
<v Speaker 1>certainly see a lot of trait that is kind of

791
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:07.119
<v Speaker 1>going from the Americas specifically into Asia. What the Global

792
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Middle Ages is attempting to do more particularly as a

793
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.159
<v Speaker 1>field of study, is like decentralize Eurasia a little bit, right,

794
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:16.480
<v Speaker 1>because like the trouble is that Eurasia does just tend

795
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:19.679
<v Speaker 1>to like push everybody else out of the way, isn't it.

796
00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Whereas you know, there's tons of stuff that we could

797
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:27.000
<v Speaker 1>be doing down in Africa or you know, certainly within

798
00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:31.960
<v Speaker 1>the Americas, and you know, increasingly in Australasia as well.

799
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:35.559
<v Speaker 1>So but they are. Granted, you know, one of the

800
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:39.480
<v Speaker 1>things that ends up happening in other regions where there

801
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:43.320
<v Speaker 1>hasn't been such an emphasis on literacy is that we

802
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:48.760
<v Speaker 1>are more reliant on archaeological things, or folklore studies or

803
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:55.039
<v Speaker 1>indeed oral histories, which is fundamentally these are different disciplines

804
00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:59.119
<v Speaker 1>than history, right because history as a discipline relies on

805
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.000
<v Speaker 1>the written record. That's what we're doing. We're taking the

806
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:05.480
<v Speaker 1>written record and we are interpreting it. Granted that we

807
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:10.559
<v Speaker 1>do that in conjunction alongside of archaeological finds, et cetera,

808
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.079
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, but we are trying to kind of like

809
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:16.159
<v Speaker 1>push that out and so that's what Global the Global

810
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Middle Ages is trying to do. But it's so young

811
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:23.519
<v Speaker 1>as a field that like people are largely unaware of it, right,

812
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Like you know, so this is something like as a

813
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:29.639
<v Speaker 1>I think it was first kind of come up with

814
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:33.719
<v Speaker 1>in sort of like the late nineties is when people

815
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:39.840
<v Speaker 1>started first looking at it. So it it has really

816
00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:42.639
<v Speaker 1>kind of blossomed out of that, like it especially became

817
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:46.559
<v Speaker 1>larger in like the teens. You know, I'm mostly aware

818
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.840
<v Speaker 1>of it from the UK side of things, but like

819
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:52.639
<v Speaker 1>Oxford and Birmingham and stuff have been working on the

820
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:55.920
<v Speaker 1>global Middle Ages, like and running huge conferences like twenty

821
00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:57.480
<v Speaker 1>twelve they had a really big one. In twenty fifteen

822
00:48:57.519 --> 00:49:01.000
<v Speaker 1>they had a really big one. And so so what

823
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.079
<v Speaker 1>they're we're attempting to do here is what they're kind

824
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:06.400
<v Speaker 1>of terming like a combinative studies, so like putting all

825
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:08.679
<v Speaker 1>like put everything in a big dish and shake it

826
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:11.119
<v Speaker 1>up and have a look at it, right instead of

827
00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:16.599
<v Speaker 1>like contrasting, which I think is good and useful. And

828
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:19.079
<v Speaker 1>so you know a lot of our friends are doing

829
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:24.280
<v Speaker 1>really awesome work in these places for sure. Now Here

830
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:26.639
<v Speaker 1>on this show we are a little bit stimy because

831
00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm a Europeanist, right and you know, yeah we do,

832
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:35.559
<v Speaker 1>we do, and and I think that that is that's

833
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:37.360
<v Speaker 1>an important thing to flag up. And you know, like

834
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.320
<v Speaker 1>I've got a pretty solid understanding of what's going on

835
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:43.000
<v Speaker 1>in Asia, but you know, if we're talking about subs

836
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.320
<v Speaker 1>of hoar in Africa, I get real shaky, real quickly.

837
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:48.119
<v Speaker 1>So like I defer to my betters in these things

838
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:51.400
<v Speaker 1>that I do, I read these things, yeah, I absolutely do.

839
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:58.480
<v Speaker 1>But so here, I guess what we're proposing is just

840
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:01.119
<v Speaker 1>kind of doing things based on date, and then what

841
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:03.440
<v Speaker 1>they are proposing even further within the study of the

842
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Global Middle Ages is, yeah, we're doing it based on date,

843
00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:07.920
<v Speaker 1>but the reason we're doing it based on date is

844
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:11.719
<v Speaker 1>that we can see globally there are certain things that

845
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 1>are common across all cultures, and you know, this makes

846
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:22.840
<v Speaker 1>it a useful term and a good way of kind

847
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:25.599
<v Speaker 1>of like branching out. So yeah, like the work is

848
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:27.719
<v Speaker 1>getting done, but the thing is it's in its infancy,

849
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:31.800
<v Speaker 1>which is why we are still kind of like not

850
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:35.400
<v Speaker 1>aware of it as a society. But yeah, I think

851
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:40.880
<v Speaker 1>like you can check out there is a Past and Present,

852
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:45.239
<v Speaker 1>which is like one of the big history journals. They

853
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:53.880
<v Speaker 1>did in twenty eighteen, a dedicated art dedicated volume on

854
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:59.079
<v Speaker 1>the Global Middle Ages, and the introduction is indeed free

855
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:01.159
<v Speaker 1>and unlock to read online, So if you want to,

856
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:02.679
<v Speaker 1>if you want to read a little bit more about it,

857
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:06.480
<v Speaker 1>we'll put the link in the show notes there so

858
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:08.760
<v Speaker 1>that you can check it out. But the answer is

859
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.360
<v Speaker 1>everybody's right, this is confusing and it's weird, and we

860
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:15.960
<v Speaker 1>are kind of like groping towards working on periodization, and

861
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:21.119
<v Speaker 1>the way that we do this is by nerding out

862
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:24.000
<v Speaker 1>most nerdally having some conferences, and we start with journal

863
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.599
<v Speaker 1>articles and then we move towards books and then you

864
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:29.079
<v Speaker 1>can then hopefully like broaden that out, and but it

865
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:32.599
<v Speaker 1>takes a while, and you know how fucking hard it

866
00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:34.360
<v Speaker 1>is for us to even get anyone to take the

867
00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:37.599
<v Speaker 1>concept of medieval history seriously as a discipline that should

868
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:39.880
<v Speaker 1>be studied, like, let alone, when you're trying to broaden it,

869
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.280
<v Speaker 1>like a way, we're we're fighting real uphill battle on

870
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.760
<v Speaker 1>this one, folks. So yeah, like it's definitely happening, but

871
00:51:48.920 --> 00:51:53.079
<v Speaker 1>it's these things happen slowly because you know, intellectual movements

872
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:55.440
<v Speaker 1>often do. So yeah, but whore, we're getting there, We're

873
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:55.880
<v Speaker 1>getting there.

874
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I need to get started on my

875
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:05.119
<v Speaker 2>paper about how the dating system should be reoriented around

876
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:08.760
<v Speaker 2>the date of the Trinity nuclear test, and you know,

877
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:11.360
<v Speaker 2>a year before that should be year zero, and then

878
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 2>everything before that pre modern era, everything after that is

879
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:19.920
<v Speaker 2>modern era or maybe you know whatever. But like, yeah,

880
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:23.239
<v Speaker 2>it's like doing this for the Middle Ages, doing it

881
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:29.480
<v Speaker 2>for for most doing it for most time periods across

882
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:33.440
<v Speaker 2>the world is hard. And the reason that dates are

883
00:52:33.559 --> 00:52:37.119
<v Speaker 2>used is because it's really the only thing we can

884
00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:40.679
<v Speaker 2>kind of agree on. Like I mean, if you look

885
00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:47.280
<v Speaker 2>at kind of what we think about as like medieval culture,

886
00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:50.880
<v Speaker 2>what represents you know, the Middle Ages in you know,

887
00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:55.199
<v Speaker 2>as between after the classical and Ancient era and before

888
00:52:55.480 --> 00:53:00.400
<v Speaker 2>the pre the early modern era, you know, like a

889
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:03.039
<v Speaker 2>lot most people say that China entered this when they

890
00:53:03.079 --> 00:53:06.599
<v Speaker 2>started the Three Kingdoms period, which was in the two hundred. See,

891
00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:13.519
<v Speaker 2>you know there was the Ghana Empire was quasi medieval,

892
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:15.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, probably in the four or five hundreds like

893
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:21.199
<v Speaker 2>these this is before the fall of the Roman Empire,

894
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:22.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean back in the two hundreds, is before they

895
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:28.159
<v Speaker 2>even split the damn thing. You know, Like so you can't,

896
00:53:28.519 --> 00:53:33.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, you have to, like you basically have to

897
00:53:33.639 --> 00:53:37.039
<v Speaker 2>give some on the edges in order to make this work.

898
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:39.639
<v Speaker 2>Because if you say that the global Middle Ages, or

899
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:44.480
<v Speaker 2>is it sometimes called post classical history, the post classical era,

900
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:48.559
<v Speaker 2>if you say it starts in two hundred, like okay,

901
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:52.159
<v Speaker 2>maybe for like one or you know a couple of

902
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:56.079
<v Speaker 2>other places, but for the majority of the world, no, not,

903
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:59.519
<v Speaker 2>they were not close. The Romans were still all over

904
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:03.440
<v Speaker 2>the Mediterranean, Europe and you know, parts of Africa and

905
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:09.559
<v Speaker 2>Western Asia, and you know they the Persians one of

906
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:13.119
<v Speaker 2>the most important civilizations of this time, the most important

907
00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:16.880
<v Speaker 2>civilizations in the history of the world in terms of

908
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:20.960
<v Speaker 2>what they did under the Sasanians and everything. They aren't

909
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:24.000
<v Speaker 2>considered to have reached the Middle Ages until the Arab

910
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:30.159
<v Speaker 2>the Caliphates conquest in like the early six thirties, I

911
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:35.960
<v Speaker 2>mean the late six thirties. Like you just you can't

912
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:40.440
<v Speaker 2>because like some of these places adopted iron earlier or later.

913
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Some of these places had like very like the Chinese

914
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.679
<v Speaker 2>had inventions obviously very far in front of other people.

915
00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:51.760
<v Speaker 2>They had a lot of inventions earlier in India, and

916
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, of course, the Islamic Golden Age is like

917
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:59.639
<v Speaker 2>you can't just base it on this because if you do,

918
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:07.159
<v Speaker 2>you are unable to period a period of size anything

919
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:10.440
<v Speaker 2>like if you want to base it on technology, because

920
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:15.400
<v Speaker 2>there's no technology. There's no like technological jumping off point

921
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:21.840
<v Speaker 2>around for one hundred to five hundred CE. That like

922
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:27.400
<v Speaker 2>that delineates it from before that, Like gunpowder hadn't been

923
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:30.199
<v Speaker 2>invented and wouldn't be for three hundred or so years.

924
00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:36.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, you know, silk production was only in China

925
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:39.599
<v Speaker 2>at that. You know, it's like these things have you know,

926
00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:43.719
<v Speaker 2>there's no way to make it fully global in a

927
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.559
<v Speaker 2>way that corresponds to everything, because even if you talk

928
00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:52.920
<v Speaker 2>about technological advancements in Afro Eurasia, the America's had completely

929
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:55.519
<v Speaker 2>different things, where like they did not make the same

930
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:58.000
<v Speaker 2>technological advancements and they didn't have a lot of the

931
00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:00.639
<v Speaker 2>same forms of writing that we did, but that didn't

932
00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:02.920
<v Speaker 2>stop them from having advanced empires. I've talked about the

933
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:05.719
<v Speaker 2>Inca on here before. They ran an entire system of

934
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:13.760
<v Speaker 2>like quasi like quasi primitive communist type deal where every

935
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:18.480
<v Speaker 2>family got land from the state and they had repositories

936
00:56:18.519 --> 00:56:20.760
<v Speaker 2>of grain and food and stuff like that. You know,

937
00:56:20.840 --> 00:56:24.400
<v Speaker 2>they also had a lot of patriarchal imperial stuff on

938
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:27.719
<v Speaker 2>top of that. But they did that, and the only

939
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:30.719
<v Speaker 2>writing or counting systems we know that they have were

940
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:35.119
<v Speaker 2>these little not keeping things that we don't understand called

941
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:40.559
<v Speaker 2>cupu and they did all that, like keeping records on knots.

942
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:46.360
<v Speaker 2>So like that is a political advancement that is insane

943
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:48.800
<v Speaker 2>compared to anyone else in the world at that time,

944
00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:51.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe even compared to China. Not that they were advanced

945
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:55.599
<v Speaker 2>beyond China, but like having that advancement so early without

946
00:56:55.760 --> 00:57:02.039
<v Speaker 2>writing that we can understand or find is that's like,

947
00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:06.840
<v Speaker 2>that's fucking like space age, like it's insane. Also proves

948
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:09.039
<v Speaker 2>that you know, you can, you can have you know

949
00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:12.400
<v Speaker 2>you can, you can do land reform and everybody's fine,

950
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:17.880
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to just be assholes. But you know anyway, point, Yeah, look,

951
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:22.760
<v Speaker 2>periodization is hard. I mean I yeah, yeah, it is

952
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:26.599
<v Speaker 2>eleanor what. What are some successful attempts to reform periodization

953
00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:29.159
<v Speaker 2>that you can think of, like just you know, obviously

954
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:32.000
<v Speaker 2>we say ce so that's a big one, even though

955
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:34.760
<v Speaker 2>to me that's just like lipstick on a pig. We

956
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:35.480
<v Speaker 2>haven't reduced.

957
00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah. A thing I like in terms of

958
00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:46.679
<v Speaker 1>periodization is the use of the term the long ye. Yeah,

959
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:49.159
<v Speaker 1>because I think it's way more useful, like like you know,

960
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:50.679
<v Speaker 1>the long fourteenth century.

961
00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:51.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

962
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:53.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, although they never do it for the fucking Middle Ages,

963
00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:56.400
<v Speaker 1>do they, But like you know, it's a can tell

964
00:57:56.400 --> 00:58:00.239
<v Speaker 1>you what the eighteenth century, that's one of the longest motherfuckers. Well,

965
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:04.280
<v Speaker 1>I know, the century longer than the eighteenth century has

966
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:07.440
<v Speaker 1>never existed, so but I think that's really good. I guess,

967
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:09.800
<v Speaker 1>like my from my standpoint as a social historian, I

968
00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:13.840
<v Speaker 1>think that using the term the long really helps like

969
00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:16.760
<v Speaker 1>just not be like yo, like these things don't just

970
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:21.440
<v Speaker 1>appear overnight, right, So the I think that it is

971
00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:26.199
<v Speaker 1>really good because it acknowledges spillover and how these things

972
00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:29.320
<v Speaker 1>are are interconnected. And I think that it's it's really

973
00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:31.679
<v Speaker 1>useful even in just a modern sense, because I think that,

974
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:34.679
<v Speaker 1>for example, the term the long nineties is really useful.

975
00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, the end of history. Yeah, we're in the law,

976
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:41.800
<v Speaker 2>We're in the long nineties until the current consensus breaks apart,

977
00:58:42.199 --> 00:58:46.960
<v Speaker 2>and then we're in something else in my opinion, but yeah, yeah,

978
00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:49.360
<v Speaker 2>So I think the long has been a really good one.

979
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:56.840
<v Speaker 1>I think that moving towards attempting to do things by

980
00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:02.000
<v Speaker 1>dates is good, but I it's a difficult one. I

981
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:06.639
<v Speaker 1>suppose also just acknowledging the early modern. That's that's an

982
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:10.440
<v Speaker 1>important thing I suppose to the modern, because before you

983
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:13.800
<v Speaker 1>just used to get a lot more like pre Enlightenment. Yeah,

984
00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.079
<v Speaker 1>just sort of like, okay, well it's all pre Enlightenment,

985
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:18.239
<v Speaker 1>isn't it, dude, Like you know, come.

986
00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:22.800
<v Speaker 2>On, it doesn't mean anything. It's stupid, yeah, not to

987
00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.039
<v Speaker 2>men like yeah, and I mean not to mention that

988
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:28.320
<v Speaker 2>in like you know, I don't know. Whenever they start

989
00:59:28.360 --> 00:59:32.519
<v Speaker 2>periodizing this in like this era, in like two three

990
00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.159
<v Speaker 2>hundred years, we're all going to be called postmodern, like yeah, yeah,

991
00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:40.159
<v Speaker 2>we're all going there, and they're gonna date postmodernity probably

992
00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:41.840
<v Speaker 2>to like the beginning of the Cold War or something

993
00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:46.159
<v Speaker 2>like that. But like, yeah, it's you know, like it's

994
00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:52.599
<v Speaker 2>it's it's hard, like it really is just fucking difficult

995
00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 2>to do, and like you like like and like I

996
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:01.400
<v Speaker 2>don't like the term post classic cool because like what

997
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:03.079
<v Speaker 2>the fuck does that even mean?

998
01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:06.599
<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, which, oh, I guess that's classical.

999
01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Post antiquity, post ancient, like what I.

1000
01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:12.559
<v Speaker 1>Like, late antique, that's I find laid a really useful,

1001
01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:16.800
<v Speaker 1>laid antic I think is good. I guess I use

1002
01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:19.320
<v Speaker 1>that one a lot. Yeah, laid antique.

1003
01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:21.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean go.

1004
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Ahead, hold on, I'll just pause.

1005
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. You know, period a periodization is uh tricky

1006
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:35.159
<v Speaker 2>because uh there's a lot of people. Uh, the world

1007
01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:40.519
<v Speaker 2>is vast and things haven't become terribly homogenized like they

1008
01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:47.559
<v Speaker 2>are now until the nineteen hundreds ish, like maybe the

1009
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:53.519
<v Speaker 2>late eighteen hundreds, like we are, you know, we it

1010
01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:58.400
<v Speaker 2>seems so set in stone to us, but you know,

1011
01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:02.400
<v Speaker 2>like the world's I've only been like this for a

1012
01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:05.480
<v Speaker 2>couple of hundred years. Before that, it was far less homogeneous,

1013
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:07.880
<v Speaker 2>and everybody was like kind of going at their own speed,

1014
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:11.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, separate and unequal development and all that sort

1015
01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:17.400
<v Speaker 2>of stuff. Yeah, that that's a lot about periodization. When

1016
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:20.280
<v Speaker 2>we say Middle Ages here, we mean global Middle Ages.

1017
01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:23.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, take your pick four seventy Look, I'll give

1018
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:26.559
<v Speaker 2>you four seventy six to fifteen seventeen. There you go.

1019
01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:29.440
<v Speaker 2>That encompasses the whole thing everybody. I don't want to

1020
01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:32.159
<v Speaker 2>hear it. I would normally do fourteen ninety two, but

1021
01:01:32.599 --> 01:01:35.440
<v Speaker 2>the five hundred to fifteen hundred people can have their

1022
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:39.119
<v Speaker 2>cake any I don't want to hear anything else. That's it, though. No,

1023
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:40.960
<v Speaker 2>we're not expanding it anymore.

1024
01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:41.719
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

1025
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:44.800
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, we don't call it post class school here

1026
01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:47.119
<v Speaker 2>because that term sucks to me.

1027
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:47.519
<v Speaker 3>Right.

1028
01:01:47.880 --> 01:01:51.000
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, when we're I promise when we're talking about

1029
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Middle Ages, we do try to delineate and make those delineations.

1030
01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:59.039
<v Speaker 2>Although I do use Medieval and Middle Ages to just

1031
01:02:00.719 --> 01:02:03.519
<v Speaker 2>any anywhere in the world during this period of time

1032
01:02:03.599 --> 01:02:08.239
<v Speaker 2>is medieval to me, even if we're talking about Medieval America,

1033
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:11.920
<v Speaker 2>is you know, is a much different place than medieval

1034
01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:16.480
<v Speaker 2>China than medieval Bohemia. But you know it's you know,

1035
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:20.320
<v Speaker 2>we got to do it otherwise we're just if we

1036
01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:22.599
<v Speaker 2>don't have a common way to speak about this, then

1037
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:24.840
<v Speaker 2>it all just breaks down and we can't even like,

1038
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:28.000
<v Speaker 2>forget doing history podcasts. We don't even have a way

1039
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:33.519
<v Speaker 2>to describe history because nobody can agree what anything means. Anyway, folks,

1040
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:37.719
<v Speaker 2>that's periodization. And now since you've sat through that, it's

1041
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:45.760
<v Speaker 2>time to talk about stuff that is annoying us. So

1042
01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:52.440
<v Speaker 2>you sat through the delicious and nutritious dinner, it's time

1043
01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:57.400
<v Speaker 2>to dive in ice cream Sunday bar that is Christianity. No, really,

1044
01:02:57.480 --> 01:02:59.960
<v Speaker 2>this one is fun. I promise that Eleanor and I

1045
01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:02.679
<v Speaker 2>I have looked on with trepidation for quite some time.

1046
01:03:03.079 --> 01:03:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Growing trend emerges where in some bog standard type of bullshit,

1047
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:11.199
<v Speaker 2>christian postulating is labeled as adult convert shit or an

1048
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:15.719
<v Speaker 2>example of the stupidity of quote. American Christianity end quote

1049
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:18.280
<v Speaker 2>as a defense against how embarrassing they are, and it

1050
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:22.039
<v Speaker 2>simply has to stop. I witness individuals on both Twitter

1051
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:25.119
<v Speaker 2>and Blue Sky saying quite openly that calling the Pope

1052
01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the Antichrist is not typical Christian behavior and is something

1053
01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:33.480
<v Speaker 2>only converts would do. And I don't even know where

1054
01:03:33.480 --> 01:03:35.800
<v Speaker 2>to begin with that shit, because calling the Pope the

1055
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Antichrist is so old that it predates the legalization of

1056
01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:44.039
<v Speaker 2>the religion itself. You know, none of this is intended

1057
01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>to defend the underlying stupid takes being offered. They are insane.

1058
01:03:48.400 --> 01:03:51.760
<v Speaker 2>It should be mocked, but not like this. And also,

1059
01:03:51.800 --> 01:03:55.599
<v Speaker 2>I believe that people use terms like American Christianity, America Protestantism,

1060
01:03:55.599 --> 01:03:58.199
<v Speaker 2>and American Catholicism as ways to deflect from the very

1061
01:03:58.199 --> 01:04:02.280
<v Speaker 2>real problems of reacttionarias that inhabit all levels, of course,

1062
01:04:02.360 --> 01:04:07.519
<v Speaker 2>all Christian institutions across the globe. But we will get there. Also,

1063
01:04:07.559 --> 01:04:12.400
<v Speaker 2>it's really asinine to think that American Protestantism is a monolithic,

1064
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:17.320
<v Speaker 2>monolithic thing. It's like six hundred different sex all arguing

1065
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:20.480
<v Speaker 2>about whether the color of the rug is should be

1066
01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:25.119
<v Speaker 2>green or blue or some shit like. That's not a monolith, people,

1067
01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:28.320
<v Speaker 2>not in the way that you think. Anyway. Uh, this

1068
01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:34.119
<v Speaker 2>started because I was I was annoyed, and I got

1069
01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:40.320
<v Speaker 2>annoyed because I saw something like I sent it to

1070
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Eleanor and I just I don't.

1071
01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:44.199
<v Speaker 1>It cracked my brain wide open.

1072
01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you that I do not understand. So it's

1073
01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:53.960
<v Speaker 2>a it's a it's a Reddit screenshot, and it says, say, say,

1074
01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:56.639
<v Speaker 2>for example, tooth Catholics of equal standing both go to

1075
01:04:56.679 --> 01:04:59.639
<v Speaker 2>confession at the same time. Ten minutes later, one engages

1076
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:02.519
<v Speaker 2>in vorn ocation, the other in sodomy. Both die at

1077
01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the same moment and are judged in heaven. What if any,

1078
01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:10.039
<v Speaker 2>would be the difference in terms of heavenly consequences? Would

1079
01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:13.239
<v Speaker 2>they be equal or would one be more grave? And

1080
01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:17.159
<v Speaker 2>somebody responded then said, uh, you know, sodomy would be

1081
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:19.320
<v Speaker 2>worse because it's not just the sin of lust, but

1082
01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:21.360
<v Speaker 2>also in a front of the divine order of creation.

1083
01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:24.000
<v Speaker 2>In other words, neither an anus nor mouth are meant

1084
01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:27.679
<v Speaker 2>to be sex organs. One my visualize, uh, and this

1085
01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:30.880
<v Speaker 2>just goes into like a bunch of bulls and shit

1086
01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:34.280
<v Speaker 2>like one. I visualize this as a vector in in

1087
01:05:34.519 --> 01:05:37.199
<v Speaker 2>space where the length of the vector magnitude of the

1088
01:05:37.239 --> 01:05:39.519
<v Speaker 2>sin is influenced by all the end dimension. Look, I'm

1089
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:43.920
<v Speaker 2>not shut up her, that's not okay. Look I don't

1090
01:05:43.960 --> 01:05:46.440
<v Speaker 2>care the bit please, the bit that I.

1091
01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Think that we need to do right, like ignore all

1092
01:05:48.920 --> 01:05:54.599
<v Speaker 1>the vectors bit. But so he's like, he's there's three axes, lust, unnaturalness,

1093
01:05:54.639 --> 01:05:59.039
<v Speaker 1>and interpersonal violence and so the but like he gets

1094
01:05:59.079 --> 01:06:02.320
<v Speaker 1>down to it and he goes, so you can no, no,

1095
01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:06.639
<v Speaker 1>like he says, uh, so you can add more dimensions

1096
01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:09.000
<v Speaker 1>and look for other factors. For example, you can define

1097
01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:13.360
<v Speaker 1>a fourth dimension unitive ends and masturbation becomes us in

1098
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:16.159
<v Speaker 1>since it devolves lust, abuse of sex or organs, and

1099
01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:19.760
<v Speaker 1>personal isolation, but no interpersonal violence. But part of it,

1100
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:22.239
<v Speaker 1>he says, is that, like, so there's lust on natural

1101
01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:27.639
<v Speaker 1>and interpersonal violence, so heterosexual rape would be equal in

1102
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:32.199
<v Speaker 1>magnitude to sodomy, and homosexual rape is worse than the above. Okay, right,

1103
01:06:32.280 --> 01:06:35.719
<v Speaker 1>So the reason, the reason I've got a fucking problem

1104
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:39.920
<v Speaker 1>with this is Saint Augustine literally, not Saint Augustine, Saint

1105
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Aquinas literally did all this shit and you're wrong. Like,

1106
01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:46.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's just it's crazy to me to watch

1107
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:52.679
<v Speaker 1>this person who thinks he's a Catholic, Like ignore Thomas Aquinas.

1108
01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:56.559
<v Speaker 2>Hold on, plea, please just one ticket. Oh that's just

1109
01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:59.840
<v Speaker 2>one ticket, because I just have a threshold issue before

1110
01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:02.119
<v Speaker 2>we get there, before you before you tear this apart.

1111
01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:06.719
<v Speaker 2>And the threshold issue is this, there is nothing more

1112
01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:09.159
<v Speaker 2>Christian in history. And if you've heard us talk about

1113
01:07:09.159 --> 01:07:12.400
<v Speaker 2>these monks and these nuns and everything like that, there's

1114
01:07:12.519 --> 01:07:17.559
<v Speaker 2>nothing more Christian in history then devising insane scenarios to

1115
01:07:17.639 --> 01:07:21.679
<v Speaker 2>go and hester your priest or your bishop or whoever

1116
01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:27.960
<v Speaker 2>about regarding trite little like sexual alliances. Oh what if

1117
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:30.639
<v Speaker 2>I get a hand job while I'm riding in the

1118
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:33.519
<v Speaker 2>carriage to church and by going to heaven father or not,

1119
01:07:34.159 --> 01:07:35.239
<v Speaker 2>I got the hand job.

1120
01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:37.440
<v Speaker 1>In the church, but it was but it was on

1121
01:07:37.480 --> 01:07:40.400
<v Speaker 1>a Tuesday and my wife did it. Yeah?

1122
01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Is that okay? Father? Like what do we need? And dude,

1123
01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:45.400
<v Speaker 2>it's like just please just say a Helmary And I

1124
01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:47.519
<v Speaker 2>don't care this. Don't do it in the church again,

1125
01:07:47.639 --> 01:07:50.519
<v Speaker 2>leave me alone. I don't like you know. That is

1126
01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:55.840
<v Speaker 2>that is Christianity. That is look at look at Dante.

1127
01:07:56.239 --> 01:08:00.039
<v Speaker 2>Look at the minute that Dante was going through to

1128
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:03.880
<v Speaker 2>like divide these people into different types of sin, different

1129
01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:08.159
<v Speaker 2>types of sex, like and one sin is greater than

1130
01:08:08.199 --> 01:08:10.280
<v Speaker 2>the other sin is greater than the other sin, like,

1131
01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:15.159
<v Speaker 2>and it just depends on various things. That is Christianity.

1132
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.239
<v Speaker 2>That is Catholic Christianity, that is the history of Christianity.

1133
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:23.039
<v Speaker 2>Bar nunn eleanor please uh, Saint Augustine of Hippo or

1134
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:23.880
<v Speaker 2>whoever the fuck.

1135
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:27.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, I guess this is now that you brought up, Dante, though,

1136
01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:31.359
<v Speaker 1>Let's just point out to the one thing that also

1137
01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:33.520
<v Speaker 1>happens here. All these motherfuckers who just want to obsess.

1138
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:37.520
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting because they always want to obsess about the

1139
01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:41.479
<v Speaker 1>sex sins, right, Like, I don't see them going into

1140
01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:44.520
<v Speaker 1>this level of like I'm being like, oh, imagine n space. Also,

1141
01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:46.520
<v Speaker 1>shut the fuck up, your nerd. I will not imagine.

1142
01:08:46.760 --> 01:08:47.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm not imagining.

1143
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:50.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna imagine shit.

1144
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:53.079
<v Speaker 2>I can barely imagine in space when I'm thinking about

1145
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:56.439
<v Speaker 2>cool sci fi stuff. I'm certainly not imagining it here

1146
01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:02.520
<v Speaker 2>for you. Ranking and jobs like oh my god, I

1147
01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:05.319
<v Speaker 2>got a hand job here. Oh I fingered my Shut

1148
01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:10.199
<v Speaker 2>the fuck up. We were all in middle school and

1149
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:14.000
<v Speaker 2>I just said this ship to Saint Augustine too. Oh

1150
01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:18.520
<v Speaker 2>but like, shut up, I don't care.

1151
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:23.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't care about your body. Yeah, like, okay, so

1152
01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:26.640
<v Speaker 1>these guys only want to talk about sexual sins like

1153
01:09:26.680 --> 01:09:28.359
<v Speaker 1>no one is out here being like okay, like what

1154
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:31.439
<v Speaker 1>about sinning by cheating on your taxes or some ship. Like,

1155
01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:34.960
<v Speaker 1>nobody's doing that, right, So they always want to define

1156
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:37.239
<v Speaker 1>it in terms of lust. But if we look at Dante,

1157
01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:39.760
<v Speaker 1>what Dante shows us is that lust is kind of

1158
01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:43.199
<v Speaker 1>like the least worst sin, like, you know, in terms

1159
01:09:43.239 --> 01:09:44.760
<v Speaker 1>of the rings. He's like, he's like, well we've all

1160
01:09:44.800 --> 01:09:47.079
<v Speaker 1>been there, yeah, like yeah, you know.

1161
01:09:47.239 --> 01:09:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no Dante, yeah exactly. He like he he's like, yeah,

1162
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:53.560
<v Speaker 2>they sin, and then I mean later of course he's like,

1163
01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:56.880
<v Speaker 2>well the homosexuals are you know, a little worse. So

1164
01:09:57.039 --> 01:10:01.920
<v Speaker 2>you're like, okay, man, But again, that's the same, Like

1165
01:10:02.239 --> 01:10:04.199
<v Speaker 2>it's not the same thing because Dante was doing it

1166
01:10:04.239 --> 01:10:07.520
<v Speaker 2>more elegantly and he is not like a weird freak

1167
01:10:07.720 --> 01:10:11.359
<v Speaker 2>like this, at least not in this respect. But like,

1168
01:10:12.159 --> 01:10:16.359
<v Speaker 2>it's that's the same thing, Dante, Dante delineating those things

1169
01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:18.760
<v Speaker 2>is the same goddamn thing, except he doesn't say in

1170
01:10:18.880 --> 01:10:20.560
<v Speaker 2>space because he's not a fucking dweb.

1171
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and like and Aquinas absolutely does come up with

1172
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:26.680
<v Speaker 1>like a hierarchy of sin based on what whether or

1173
01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:31.039
<v Speaker 1>not he perceives the sin to be logical. Yeah, right,

1174
01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:33.079
<v Speaker 1>So it's like you don't need end space, because it's

1175
01:10:33.119 --> 01:10:36.079
<v Speaker 1>just got What we have instead is this idea of

1176
01:10:36.199 --> 01:10:40.760
<v Speaker 1>logic being harmonious with God and in and therefore in

1177
01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:43.199
<v Speaker 1>alignment with God. And so therefore the more out of

1178
01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:46.399
<v Speaker 1>alignment something is the worse it is, right, And so

1179
01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:51.199
<v Speaker 1>this guy's saying that, like, oh, specifically he says that.

1180
01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:57.199
<v Speaker 1>So the thing is he is actually letting his own

1181
01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:00.880
<v Speaker 1>modern ideas cloud his thought, if that's really what he

1182
01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:04.079
<v Speaker 1>wants to do, because he says that, like he says that, oh,

1183
01:11:04.640 --> 01:11:09.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, like the like sodomy is kind of the

1184
01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:15.840
<v Speaker 1>same as heterosexual rape and that homosexual rapist words, and

1185
01:11:16.159 --> 01:11:19.359
<v Speaker 1>it's like that is absolutely not true according to Aquinas,

1186
01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:24.600
<v Speaker 1>because what Aquinas's thing is is that the logic of

1187
01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:29.399
<v Speaker 1>sex is only for having children within marital circumstances, right,

1188
01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:34.720
<v Speaker 1>And so he says that actually rape, but the way

1189
01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:36.840
<v Speaker 1>a mad raping of women is not as bad as

1190
01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:41.439
<v Speaker 1>sodomy because at least someone can get pregnant, which is

1191
01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:44.960
<v Speaker 1>fucking dire, dude, Like it's so dire, it's so dire.

1192
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:48.319
<v Speaker 1>So this guy actually does have modern sensibilities because he's like, oh, yeah,

1193
01:11:48.319 --> 01:11:51.520
<v Speaker 1>like it's that's bad and it's bad and illogical likexodomy.

1194
01:11:51.640 --> 01:11:54.399
<v Speaker 1>It's not fucking illogical likexodomy. If you want to go down,

1195
01:11:54.439 --> 01:11:56.159
<v Speaker 1>if this is the fucking road you really want to

1196
01:11:56.199 --> 01:11:58.279
<v Speaker 1>go down, if this is what you actually want to

1197
01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:01.199
<v Speaker 1>go down, then you need to fucking own it, like

1198
01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:03.439
<v Speaker 1>eat it, you know, eat the eat the whole thing

1199
01:12:03.479 --> 01:12:05.920
<v Speaker 1>that belongs to you. Now, don't do this like oh,

1200
01:12:06.159 --> 01:12:09.039
<v Speaker 1>like guess that, like, oh it's betterly his bad. It's

1201
01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:11.039
<v Speaker 1>sort of shut the fuck up, you nerd. And the

1202
01:12:11.079 --> 01:12:14.600
<v Speaker 1>reason why he is right that the reason why, Well,

1203
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:17.359
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting though, because you notice here he's like, sodomy

1204
01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:20.359
<v Speaker 1>is uh is mouths and amuses. I'm like, what about

1205
01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:23.079
<v Speaker 1>the hands, bra, You're trying to get away with hand jobs?

1206
01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Bra?

1207
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Who's trying to get away with hand jobs? Right now?

1208
01:12:27.039 --> 01:12:30.840
<v Speaker 1>I know, I see your ass. You know. He's kind

1209
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:34.000
<v Speaker 1>of like trying to sort of like do these condemnations right,

1210
01:12:35.039 --> 01:12:38.279
<v Speaker 1>And also it doesn't really necessarily make sense because he

1211
01:12:38.319 --> 01:12:44.199
<v Speaker 1>also says here that like, like a homosexual rape is

1212
01:12:44.239 --> 01:12:46.680
<v Speaker 1>worse than all of the above, Well, what about when

1213
01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:51.880
<v Speaker 1>women are sodomized, when they're raped by men? That's better?

1214
01:12:53.960 --> 01:12:57.119
<v Speaker 1>Like how that would be? It should be the same

1215
01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:02.039
<v Speaker 1>for you? Right, And like The reason why the Aquinas

1216
01:13:02.119 --> 01:13:04.960
<v Speaker 1>is kind of more chill with rape than he should

1217
01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:06.560
<v Speaker 1>be is he's like, well, at the very least you

1218
01:13:06.600 --> 01:13:10.000
<v Speaker 1>could have a baby, and also that situation can be

1219
01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:13.880
<v Speaker 1>made right by forcing the rapists to marry the woman. Yeah,

1220
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:17.319
<v Speaker 1>in which case everything's fine now. Actually, so it's like you,

1221
01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:20.439
<v Speaker 1>if you want to get into this, this kettle of fish,

1222
01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:23.079
<v Speaker 1>then you need to realize that someone smarter than you

1223
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:25.239
<v Speaker 1>has already done this and it's actually worse and more

1224
01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:28.840
<v Speaker 1>horrifying that you are willing to deal with.

1225
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:33.319
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, he's yeah, like somebody has already done this.

1226
01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:39.479
<v Speaker 2>He's considered like a genius of the church, and a

1227
01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:42.640
<v Speaker 2>literal saint already did this. Yeah, a literal saint already

1228
01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:44.680
<v Speaker 2>did this. And he already did it in like a

1229
01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:49.600
<v Speaker 2>creepy or a more domineering, in patriarchal way than what

1230
01:13:49.640 --> 01:13:51.960
<v Speaker 2>you're saying, because he's like, this is fine because a

1231
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:55.600
<v Speaker 2>woman gets you know, if the woman gets pregnant. Then

1232
01:13:56.439 --> 01:14:00.359
<v Speaker 2>there was that politician in America who was like the last,

1233
01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:04.439
<v Speaker 2>the last Republican to like, uh get run out for

1234
01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:07.159
<v Speaker 2>wokeness and never be able to come back to you know,

1235
01:14:07.279 --> 01:14:11.560
<v Speaker 2>like if if there's a bay if the woman becomes pregnant. Uh,

1236
01:14:11.600 --> 01:14:15.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not rape. It automatically use like that.

1237
01:14:15.279 --> 01:14:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Because during real rape, a woman's body has ways of

1238
01:14:19.520 --> 01:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>shutting that whole thing down.

1239
01:14:21.520 --> 01:14:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, exactly, because we're actually ducks. Yeah something. Yeah yeah.

1240
01:14:28.479 --> 01:14:34.439
<v Speaker 2>So uh, folks, look, if you're going to do it,

1241
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:38.479
<v Speaker 2>you gotta you gotta be at least as depraved and

1242
01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:41.439
<v Speaker 2>insane as the masters here. I don't want to hear

1243
01:14:41.479 --> 01:14:45.199
<v Speaker 2>about in space or any of that. Uh yeah, I

1244
01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:48.359
<v Speaker 2>mean I mentioned it earlier, but uh, in the same

1245
01:14:48.439 --> 01:14:50.439
<v Speaker 2>thread where they were talking about that Reddit post, people

1246
01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:52.760
<v Speaker 2>were like, oh, they called the pope the anti Christ.

1247
01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Classic classic.

1248
01:14:55.399 --> 01:14:58.079
<v Speaker 2>That is so Catholic. Why why do you think the

1249
01:14:58.119 --> 01:15:02.039
<v Speaker 2>anti pope is called an antipope because he's related to

1250
01:15:02.199 --> 01:15:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the dude.

1251
01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:08.319
<v Speaker 1>It's like calling the Emperor anti Christ, calling the Pope

1252
01:15:08.319 --> 01:15:10.560
<v Speaker 1>anti Christ, calling that guy over there.

1253
01:15:10.399 --> 01:15:11.520
<v Speaker 2>At Christ hat.

1254
01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:16.720
<v Speaker 1>This is the number one thing that Christians like to do, is.

1255
01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:19.640
<v Speaker 2>That when you get mad at the pope for anything,

1256
01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:25.000
<v Speaker 2>doesn't he looked at you the wrong way? Yeah?

1257
01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:27.359
<v Speaker 1>But can we talk about that other that other tweet?

1258
01:15:27.680 --> 01:15:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh yeah, we're getting there, yeah anyway, Yeah, we'll

1259
01:15:31.159 --> 01:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>get there now. Because this is this is this is.

1260
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:36.600
<v Speaker 2>This is fun and Ellen or I think her brain

1261
01:15:36.680 --> 01:15:37.760
<v Speaker 2>is going to explode.

1262
01:15:37.960 --> 01:15:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh I'm so mad about this.

1263
01:15:41.239 --> 01:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>You should be. However, we should also is it?

1264
01:15:46.840 --> 01:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh God got it? I got it on here somewhere

1265
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:51.760
<v Speaker 1>because I was rantic about it on well, I wasn't

1266
01:15:51.800 --> 01:15:53.319
<v Speaker 1>rantic about it. I was hinting that I was going

1267
01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:58.119
<v Speaker 1>to rant about it on a blue sky. Where's it going?

1268
01:15:58.239 --> 01:15:58.439
<v Speaker 3>Now?

1269
01:16:00.479 --> 01:16:04.279
<v Speaker 1>It's so I can't find it so bad. I want

1270
01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:06.680
<v Speaker 1>to be able to like get the exact wording right

1271
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:12.880
<v Speaker 1>because it's so it's so stupid, but it is. This

1272
01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:15.880
<v Speaker 1>is great podcasting. We should definitely leave all of this

1273
01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:22.800
<v Speaker 1>in for the listening discretion of our viewers. Uh, like,

1274
01:16:23.119 --> 01:16:26.319
<v Speaker 1>people are just gonna love it. But yeah, I honestly

1275
01:16:26.359 --> 01:16:30.840
<v Speaker 1>can't find it. It but it is more or less.

1276
01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:35.119
<v Speaker 1>This woman said, Jesus did not he wait, no, here

1277
01:16:35.119 --> 01:16:36.680
<v Speaker 1>it is okay. And also I'm going to give her

1278
01:16:36.720 --> 01:16:41.560
<v Speaker 1>at her at is toneski t O n E s

1279
01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>k e e E if you want to go yell

1280
01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:48.279
<v Speaker 1>at her on Twitter. And she says, Jesus did not

1281
01:16:48.520 --> 01:16:52.760
<v Speaker 1>primarily die for you because he loves you. He primarily

1282
01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:57.960
<v Speaker 1>died for his own glory.

1283
01:16:58.319 --> 01:17:01.279
<v Speaker 2>All right, hold on hold on, let's I want to

1284
01:17:01.319 --> 01:17:05.239
<v Speaker 2>say number one, that there is nothing more Christian in

1285
01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the history of the world than coming up with insane, stupid, nonsensical,

1286
01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:16.479
<v Speaker 2>bullshit reasons to like to to to to figure out

1287
01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:19.279
<v Speaker 2>like oh and say, the divinity of God is like

1288
01:17:19.319 --> 01:17:23.239
<v Speaker 2>special in some way that is the oldest thing in

1289
01:17:23.279 --> 01:17:25.760
<v Speaker 2>the world. To the point that this is a version

1290
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:31.600
<v Speaker 2>of an early heresy called docetism. Now it's a very stupid,

1291
01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:36.399
<v Speaker 2>very modern version of dosetism. But like the basically justism

1292
01:17:36.600 --> 01:17:41.640
<v Speaker 2>was that uh, Jesus is part of God, and the

1293
01:17:41.720 --> 01:17:44.000
<v Speaker 2>human form of Jesus that came onto the earth and

1294
01:17:44.079 --> 01:17:49.119
<v Speaker 2>was crucified was just uh an illusion and basically a

1295
01:17:49.159 --> 01:17:52.920
<v Speaker 2>way to uh to big up the power of God

1296
01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:57.399
<v Speaker 2>and Jesus essentially, you know, as someone said about the

1297
01:17:57.479 --> 01:17:59.640
<v Speaker 2>about that tweet, you know, oh, Jesus is or a

1298
01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:03.680
<v Speaker 2>farm on the cross, and that's what that's what doctism

1299
01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:05.960
<v Speaker 2>is to, you know, to to to a greater or

1300
01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:11.680
<v Speaker 2>lesser extent. Now, with that being said, eleanor please go

1301
01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:12.399
<v Speaker 2>the fuck off.

1302
01:18:12.680 --> 01:18:19.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so like it no, no, like no, in the

1303
01:18:19.079 --> 01:18:22.199
<v Speaker 1>first place, like the entire point of Jesus, the entire

1304
01:18:22.479 --> 01:18:26.279
<v Speaker 1>fucking point of Jesus is that he did it for everybody, like.

1305
01:18:26.439 --> 01:18:29.159
<v Speaker 2>The for God so loved the world that he said

1306
01:18:29.199 --> 01:18:31.800
<v Speaker 2>He's only begotten son, so that he may die on

1307
01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:34.680
<v Speaker 2>the car that like, it is a heresy of the

1308
01:18:34.760 --> 01:18:38.000
<v Speaker 2>highest order because it denies that. And I love when

1309
01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:43.359
<v Speaker 2>people do heresies that deny the underlying conceptions of the religion.

1310
01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:46.760
<v Speaker 2>They're being heretical against. It's like, okay, man, just go

1311
01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:50.680
<v Speaker 2>do something else. You're not Christian anymore, like I mean,

1312
01:18:52.159 --> 01:18:52.600
<v Speaker 2>it just.

1313
01:18:52.640 --> 01:18:55.960
<v Speaker 1>It's the entire point of it is okay. So so

1314
01:18:56.000 --> 01:19:01.279
<v Speaker 1>the Nicean creed, the Nicean creed, which you say every Sunday, okay,

1315
01:19:01.479 --> 01:19:06.680
<v Speaker 1>includes the lines like we believe in the One Lord

1316
01:19:06.760 --> 01:19:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of

1317
01:19:09.640 --> 01:19:12.079
<v Speaker 1>the Father God, from God, Light from Light, true God,

1318
01:19:12.119 --> 01:19:15.000
<v Speaker 1>from true God, begotten and not made one in being

1319
01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:17.560
<v Speaker 1>with the Father. Through him, all things were made for

1320
01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:21.479
<v Speaker 1>us men and for our salvation. He came down from

1321
01:19:21.520 --> 01:19:23.800
<v Speaker 1>heaven by the power of the Holy Spirit. He was

1322
01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:26.000
<v Speaker 1>born of the Virgin Mary and became man for our sake.

1323
01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:28.880
<v Speaker 1>He was crucified under Patrus Pilot. He suffered, died, and

1324
01:19:29.000 --> 01:19:31.600
<v Speaker 1>was buried. On the third day, he rose again in

1325
01:19:31.640 --> 01:19:33.560
<v Speaker 1>fulfillment of the scriptures, he has sent it into heaven

1326
01:19:33.560 --> 01:19:35.720
<v Speaker 1>is seated at the right head of the Father. You like,

1327
01:19:35.960 --> 01:19:38.880
<v Speaker 1>it is literally in there. He came down from heaven,

1328
01:19:39.079 --> 01:19:41.880
<v Speaker 1>like you know, for us and for our salvation. He

1329
01:19:41.960 --> 01:19:45.079
<v Speaker 1>came down from heaven, not for his like fucking glory

1330
01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:47.760
<v Speaker 1>glory form.

1331
01:19:47.880 --> 01:19:50.600
<v Speaker 2>No, Now, if he wanted to, there are way better

1332
01:19:50.640 --> 01:19:53.560
<v Speaker 2>ways to our farm than to get yourself strung up

1333
01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>on a fucking but sticks of wood. Wait, just levitate above.

1334
01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:01.560
<v Speaker 2>Everyone speak loud enough for where they can hear you.

1335
01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:04.840
<v Speaker 2>That's it. There you go, You've You've proven the whole thing. Yeah,

1336
01:20:04.840 --> 01:20:08.319
<v Speaker 2>the point of Christianity is that Jesus could have done that.

1337
01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:11.119
<v Speaker 2>He could have done all of it. He could have

1338
01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:14.079
<v Speaker 2>said no, and it would have ended because he had

1339
01:20:14.119 --> 01:20:16.600
<v Speaker 2>the same he had the same power as God to

1340
01:20:17.239 --> 01:20:20.680
<v Speaker 2>whatever extent you believe. But he definitely could have stopped him.

1341
01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:22.279
<v Speaker 2>So if he could turn water into wine, he could

1342
01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:27.079
<v Speaker 2>definitely pull himself off the cross and without without an issue.

1343
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:31.800
<v Speaker 2>And it's uh, it's like, it's it's also in it.

1344
01:20:31.960 --> 01:20:34.359
<v Speaker 2>It's it's the it's the fundamental thing. And like to me,

1345
01:20:34.640 --> 01:20:37.520
<v Speaker 2>like I am not a Christian anymore. I don't care

1346
01:20:37.560 --> 01:20:39.880
<v Speaker 2>about it. But like to me, like, if you're a Christian,

1347
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:42.399
<v Speaker 2>you think about it. The thing about it has to

1348
01:20:42.439 --> 01:20:47.159
<v Speaker 2>be that God and Jesus loved you enough to do this,

1349
01:20:47.279 --> 01:20:50.640
<v Speaker 2>and he loved you enough to go through this horrific

1350
01:20:50.680 --> 01:20:54.520
<v Speaker 2>pain and take and become the sin eater to do this.

1351
01:20:55.239 --> 01:20:56.920
<v Speaker 2>That that's the point. If you don't have that.

1352
01:20:58.800 --> 01:21:00.800
<v Speaker 1>What's the point? Like, I mean, this shit is in

1353
01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:04.439
<v Speaker 1>the Niciene Creed, it's in the Athanasian Creed. It's like one,

1354
01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:08.720
<v Speaker 1>it is the central chet tenant of Christianity. It's what

1355
01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:11.439
<v Speaker 1>makes you a Christian as opposed to Jewish.

1356
01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Right. One of the reasons that Nicee Creed was written

1357
01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:17.439
<v Speaker 2>in this way is because they specifically rejected doctism. There.

1358
01:21:17.439 --> 01:21:20.600
<v Speaker 2>They were like, no, there was no Ora farming. It

1359
01:21:20.880 --> 01:21:24.479
<v Speaker 2>just sucked for him. It sucked. It sucked.

1360
01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Like I mean, like have you read the Bible. Like

1361
01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:29.119
<v Speaker 1>the entire thing is about how much he doesn't want

1362
01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:30.720
<v Speaker 1>to do this, like going up to it. It's like,

1363
01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:33.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, father, but like take this cut from me,

1364
01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:36.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, and you know how how tempted he is,

1365
01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:38.079
<v Speaker 1>how he doesn't want to do it, Like you know,

1366
01:21:38.199 --> 01:21:41.159
<v Speaker 1>the the lamentations in the garden are all about how

1367
01:21:41.239 --> 01:21:42.680
<v Speaker 1>much he doesn't want to do this because it's gonna

1368
01:21:42.680 --> 01:21:44.920
<v Speaker 1>suck so badly, but he has to do it for everybody.

1369
01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, that's the whole fuck. That's the whole point,

1370
01:21:47.840 --> 01:21:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the whole point. If it was just for his glory,

1371
01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:52.239
<v Speaker 1>he'd be like, sweet, let me get out there. Yeah,

1372
01:21:52.760 --> 01:21:58.600
<v Speaker 1>like it it It just denudes the religion of what

1373
01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:01.439
<v Speaker 1>is there for. I don't I don't even understand why

1374
01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:03.239
<v Speaker 1>you want this girl, Like.

1375
01:22:03.560 --> 01:22:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh, like I've made this kind of joke before, but

1376
01:22:08.600 --> 01:22:11.119
<v Speaker 2>it is true. Like George Lucas and the people who

1377
01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:13.000
<v Speaker 2>wrote the Bible had the same idea, which is that

1378
01:22:13.039 --> 01:22:14.680
<v Speaker 2>if you have a chosen one, if you have someone

1379
01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:17.119
<v Speaker 2>who has all of this power and can like do

1380
01:22:17.199 --> 01:22:19.880
<v Speaker 2>whatever they want and is the person of destiny, you

1381
01:22:19.960 --> 01:22:23.159
<v Speaker 2>have to fully break them. You have to destroy them.

1382
01:22:23.479 --> 01:22:28.159
<v Speaker 2>They cannot be like, it cannot be that they that

1383
01:22:28.279 --> 01:22:30.800
<v Speaker 2>has to happen. Sometimes know whether that happens because they

1384
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:34.319
<v Speaker 2>betray themselves and they they do things that they never

1385
01:22:34.319 --> 01:22:37.119
<v Speaker 2>should have done and they commit horrific acts a genocide,

1386
01:22:37.760 --> 01:22:40.159
<v Speaker 2>or if it's that they have all this power but

1387
01:22:40.199 --> 01:22:43.319
<v Speaker 2>they choose to endure it as a human being would

1388
01:22:43.960 --> 01:22:49.760
<v Speaker 2>and die without like overawing everyone and and and turning

1389
01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:53.640
<v Speaker 2>themselves into the God Emperor of earth. That's another way

1390
01:22:53.640 --> 01:22:55.239
<v Speaker 2>to do it. If you don't have that, then there's

1391
01:22:55.239 --> 01:22:57.720
<v Speaker 2>no fucking point in being a Christian like there there

1392
01:22:57.920 --> 01:23:01.680
<v Speaker 2>there's no there's like just be an ah, like yes, exactly,

1393
01:23:01.800 --> 01:23:04.119
<v Speaker 2>worship the dollar. Who gives a shit? Hell, just go

1394
01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:07.079
<v Speaker 2>to one of those prosperity gospel churches where they like

1395
01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:09.520
<v Speaker 2>at least teach like God's going to give you this

1396
01:23:09.600 --> 01:23:12.520
<v Speaker 2>money because he loves you. That it's it's a horrific

1397
01:23:12.640 --> 01:23:15.920
<v Speaker 2>blasphemy to the Bible and everything, but it's closer than

1398
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:20.760
<v Speaker 2>this this like this is yeah, like you're not like

1399
01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:23.399
<v Speaker 2>you're not a Christian like and this is like this

1400
01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>is a problem with like with Christianity. Todays people just

1401
01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:31.680
<v Speaker 2>say this stuff and like you can't there's no way

1402
01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:36.399
<v Speaker 2>to tamp any of it down, Like you can't. There

1403
01:23:36.399 --> 01:23:40.560
<v Speaker 2>are no overarch there there are no real overarching uh

1404
01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:45.239
<v Speaker 2>structures to this. And I mean not that it worked

1405
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:46.640
<v Speaker 2>in the Middle Age just because you had all the

1406
01:23:46.640 --> 01:23:52.560
<v Speaker 2>heresies then too, but like once people like when people

1407
01:23:52.640 --> 01:23:55.960
<v Speaker 2>read things a spiritual import or even just regular stuff,

1408
01:23:55.960 --> 01:23:59.119
<v Speaker 2>but especially of spiritual import they like their mind imagines

1409
01:23:59.159 --> 01:24:02.000
<v Speaker 2>them and like in saying in weird different ways, it's

1410
01:24:02.039 --> 01:24:07.359
<v Speaker 2>not like it's not just like a static thing. And

1411
01:24:07.439 --> 01:24:09.800
<v Speaker 2>so like somebody's going to see this and be like, oh,

1412
01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:12.079
<v Speaker 2>God is or farming on the cross. I know the

1413
01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:13.960
<v Speaker 2>person's going to see it and be like God and

1414
01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:19.199
<v Speaker 2>Jesus are like completely and totally separate. And and then

1415
01:24:19.359 --> 01:24:21.279
<v Speaker 2>you know another person's going to see it another way,

1416
01:24:21.279 --> 01:24:23.680
<v Speaker 2>and you get into the arianism and all that sort

1417
01:24:23.680 --> 01:24:27.840
<v Speaker 2>of like you get into all those divinity debates, and

1418
01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:30.560
<v Speaker 2>so when you don't have that overarching thing and you

1419
01:24:30.560 --> 01:24:33.359
<v Speaker 2>don't have the superstructure, it all just kind of devolves

1420
01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>into this. And since like all of like the especially

1421
01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:41.880
<v Speaker 2>all of the western countries, but a lot of countries

1422
01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:43.640
<v Speaker 2>in the world are just like, well, we're just like

1423
01:24:43.800 --> 01:24:46.199
<v Speaker 2>marching on into oblivion and we're not going to do

1424
01:24:46.239 --> 01:24:49.000
<v Speaker 2>anything to stop it. Of course, people who have these

1425
01:24:49.119 --> 01:24:51.760
<v Speaker 2>like like people who are at the end of their

1426
01:24:51.840 --> 01:24:55.800
<v Speaker 2>rope are like, yeah, of course, you know, Jesus is

1427
01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:58.239
<v Speaker 2>or farming on the cross. I'm you know, I'm gonna

1428
01:24:58.279 --> 01:25:01.960
<v Speaker 2>die because you know, like because I can't pay for healthcare,

1429
01:25:02.199 --> 01:25:08.560
<v Speaker 2>like people just I don't and I don't really know

1430
01:25:08.600 --> 01:25:11.520
<v Speaker 2>how you fix that other than by Christians just being like, look,

1431
01:25:11.560 --> 01:25:13.640
<v Speaker 2>we just have to like excommunicate all these people, we

1432
01:25:13.680 --> 01:25:15.319
<v Speaker 2>have to get them out, like we have to do

1433
01:25:15.359 --> 01:25:18.199
<v Speaker 2>that because like even like even the Catholic Church now

1434
01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:20.680
<v Speaker 2>doesn't do that. All the fucking reactionaries are in there,

1435
01:25:20.720 --> 01:25:23.560
<v Speaker 2>and like, uh, none of the woke popes before now

1436
01:25:23.640 --> 01:25:27.439
<v Speaker 2>did anything. Like it's just like, I mean, I really

1437
01:25:27.479 --> 01:25:30.680
<v Speaker 2>don't I really don't know how you you stopped that

1438
01:25:30.760 --> 01:25:34.800
<v Speaker 2>apart from just like mass excommunicado, I don't fucking know.

1439
01:25:36.159 --> 01:25:39.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like the entire thing is just incredible to me,

1440
01:25:39.399 --> 01:25:42.439
<v Speaker 1>because don't get me wrong, like this shit has always

1441
01:25:42.439 --> 01:25:44.880
<v Speaker 1>been around. Many people love to do this as much

1442
01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:48.239
<v Speaker 1>as everybody else, Like there are plenty of heresies that

1443
01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:50.439
<v Speaker 1>are kicking around. I guess what bothers me is when

1444
01:25:50.479 --> 01:25:55.199
<v Speaker 1>people are like, I'm a brain genius who consider this

1445
01:25:55.359 --> 01:25:57.840
<v Speaker 1>on like an end access. I will not consider it

1446
01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:00.600
<v Speaker 1>on an end access. Get the fuck off off Twitter,

1447
01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:03.439
<v Speaker 1>log off, Go speak to your priest about this, Like,

1448
01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:05.840
<v Speaker 1>go tell your priest, Go tell your priest to his face.

1449
01:26:06.199 --> 01:26:09.880
<v Speaker 2>If you're mapping sins on an on an in space

1450
01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:12.760
<v Speaker 2>access like that, you need to be doing one of

1451
01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:16.600
<v Speaker 2>two things. You need to be an advanced uh, like

1452
01:26:16.760 --> 01:26:20.399
<v Speaker 2>academic level mathematics so you can figure out like advanced

1453
01:26:20.439 --> 01:26:24.239
<v Speaker 2>forms of like quantum like whatever. Or you need to

1454
01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:26.439
<v Speaker 2>be a monk and you need to be writing like

1455
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:31.600
<v Speaker 2>cryptic monk shit in somewhat like if you're doing that

1456
01:26:31.640 --> 01:26:34.600
<v Speaker 2>and you and you could seriously conceptualize that, like what

1457
01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:36.640
<v Speaker 2>the fuck you're posting that shit on Reddit? What the

1458
01:26:36.680 --> 01:26:41.279
<v Speaker 2>fuck are you doing? Man? Like, like go go do something,

1459
01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:43.840
<v Speaker 2>like you know, go do something with that shit. And

1460
01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:48.840
<v Speaker 2>you're just like, oh, it's in the in space. Uh God,

1461
01:26:49.159 --> 01:26:52.000
<v Speaker 2>was are a farming up? Like what the fuck are

1462
01:26:52.039 --> 01:26:54.720
<v Speaker 2>we doing? What are you doing?

1463
01:26:54.880 --> 01:26:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Like like I just don't know what it's for.

1464
01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:00.239
<v Speaker 2>You know I And I mean like but an another

1465
01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:02.680
<v Speaker 2>thing is like and this is kind of the thing

1466
01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:05.720
<v Speaker 2>I was thinking about with like American Christianity, American Protestantism,

1467
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:13.159
<v Speaker 2>Like there are no overarching church organizations in this country

1468
01:27:13.199 --> 01:27:21.159
<v Speaker 2>that have like the kind of that that are rigid,

1469
01:27:21.239 --> 01:27:23.880
<v Speaker 2>that are set in stone, that have these huge like

1470
01:27:24.119 --> 01:27:28.000
<v Speaker 2>backings and everything like that, that have the institutional legitimacy

1471
01:27:28.079 --> 01:27:32.000
<v Speaker 2>that the Catholic Church does now or ever did in

1472
01:27:32.039 --> 01:27:35.159
<v Speaker 2>the past. There is nothing like that in America. The

1473
01:27:35.239 --> 01:27:38.079
<v Speaker 2>Catholic Church is not like that because it's badly riven

1474
01:27:38.119 --> 01:27:43.359
<v Speaker 2>here between like the you know people who go but

1475
01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:48.560
<v Speaker 2>they're like nice liberals, the lapse Catholics on they're kind

1476
01:27:48.560 --> 01:27:51.199
<v Speaker 2>of on one side, and then you have like the crazies,

1477
01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:54.119
<v Speaker 2>which I mean, it's that's like it pretty much everywhere

1478
01:27:54.119 --> 01:27:57.600
<v Speaker 2>else in the world too, with Catholicism. But like the

1479
01:27:57.680 --> 01:28:01.680
<v Speaker 2>people talk about American Protestantism as a monolithic thing, No,

1480
01:28:02.079 --> 01:28:06.960
<v Speaker 2>there's no Protestant monolith here in this country. Southern Baptist

1481
01:28:07.039 --> 01:28:11.079
<v Speaker 2>churches that are members of the Southern Baptist Convention disagree

1482
01:28:11.119 --> 01:28:15.000
<v Speaker 2>with and split off from them all the time. They're fighting,

1483
01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:20.079
<v Speaker 2>constantly fighting about everything. There. You know, there are seventy

1484
01:28:20.479 --> 01:28:25.079
<v Speaker 2>eighty ninety kinds of denominations of like Evangelicals. And then

1485
01:28:25.119 --> 01:28:27.960
<v Speaker 2>on top of that, you've got like the you've got

1486
01:28:27.960 --> 01:28:32.039
<v Speaker 2>like the pluralist religious groups. You know, you're Unitarian Universalists,

1487
01:28:32.039 --> 01:28:37.960
<v Speaker 2>You're you're Northeastern Protestants, you know that, you know, the

1488
01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:41.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of more refined they're more accepting of gay people

1489
01:28:41.119 --> 01:28:45.800
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that. You've got all that. It's none

1490
01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:48.479
<v Speaker 2>of this is a monolith and people here are just

1491
01:28:48.800 --> 01:28:52.800
<v Speaker 2>like giving giving up on church fair faster than they

1492
01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:57.000
<v Speaker 2>were before. Like it's not a thing. It's like this

1493
01:28:57.199 --> 01:29:02.560
<v Speaker 2>vague institutional backing that people have for certain issues like

1494
01:29:02.720 --> 01:29:08.199
<v Speaker 2>Israel and stuff like that, but there's no religious rigor

1495
01:29:08.279 --> 01:29:11.520
<v Speaker 2>to it. And most of these people can't like direct

1496
01:29:11.720 --> 01:29:18.880
<v Speaker 2>their flocks to do anything because they don't have that's

1497
01:29:18.920 --> 01:29:24.119
<v Speaker 2>not an institutional Like Protestantism in America has fractured so

1498
01:29:24.159 --> 01:29:29.239
<v Speaker 2>many times that like you've got non denominational groups that

1499
01:29:29.359 --> 01:29:33.159
<v Speaker 2>are denominations. You've got non denominational groups that are just

1500
01:29:33.199 --> 01:29:35.359
<v Speaker 2>like we want to have an electric guitar and let

1501
01:29:35.399 --> 01:29:38.199
<v Speaker 2>some guy talk about one love and everything like that.

1502
01:29:38.199 --> 01:29:40.279
<v Speaker 2>That might as well be hippie communes. And then you've

1503
01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:45.159
<v Speaker 2>got you know, non denominationalists that are like cults that

1504
01:29:45.359 --> 01:29:50.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, abduct children, like it's you've got all stripes.

1505
01:29:51.039 --> 01:29:58.199
<v Speaker 2>It's just this weird thing. And I don't I really

1506
01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:00.319
<v Speaker 2>don't know what they do with it. I have no idea.

1507
01:30:00.399 --> 01:30:02.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you. I don't know how you

1508
01:30:02.520 --> 01:30:05.960
<v Speaker 2>reform it other than like the dune thing where you like,

1509
01:30:06.159 --> 01:30:09.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, orange Catholic Bible like un ironically, I really

1510
01:30:09.680 --> 01:30:10.399
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

1511
01:30:11.079 --> 01:30:13.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I just think it's strange that there is

1512
01:30:13.920 --> 01:30:17.920
<v Speaker 1>this desire inside them to invent some new form of Christianity.

1513
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:20.439
<v Speaker 1>Like that's what I don't quite get. Like I suppose

1514
01:30:20.479 --> 01:30:24.239
<v Speaker 1>that you know, as we say, this is this is

1515
01:30:24.279 --> 01:30:32.119
<v Speaker 1>a deeply held Christian Uh. I guess this is what

1516
01:30:32.199 --> 01:30:34.039
<v Speaker 1>they do for sports. But on the other hand, I

1517
01:30:34.039 --> 01:30:36.439
<v Speaker 1>don't really see the point of being Catholic if you're

1518
01:30:36.439 --> 01:30:39.000
<v Speaker 1>not going to like be Catholic with it, right, Like

1519
01:30:39.079 --> 01:30:41.039
<v Speaker 1>if you're if you're gonna try to out smart a Quitas,

1520
01:30:41.119 --> 01:30:43.520
<v Speaker 1>if you're going to like say, the IC in Creed

1521
01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:46.479
<v Speaker 1>isn't real, then like why are you a Catholic at all?

1522
01:30:46.640 --> 01:30:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Just like go go be a Protestant. There's lots of them.

1523
01:30:49.279 --> 01:30:49.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't get it.

1524
01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Jesus our farming on the cross. Holy fuck, Like I cackled.

1525
01:30:56.479 --> 01:30:59.359
<v Speaker 2>I can't like that. Like that's good heresy, right, that

1526
01:31:00.159 --> 01:31:02.039
<v Speaker 2>is the hair. If you're gonna do a heresy, that's

1527
01:31:02.079 --> 01:31:05.720
<v Speaker 2>the heresy I'm looking for. That is like you're reviving

1528
01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:10.279
<v Speaker 2>some like second century bullshit. Okay, Okay, now we're.

1529
01:31:10.079 --> 01:31:14.239
<v Speaker 1>Cooking out, Yeah, like we're cooking Yeah, absolutely absolutely.

1530
01:31:13.640 --> 01:31:16.079
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, Yeah, if you're gonna do a heresy. Don't go

1531
01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:18.840
<v Speaker 2>half assed with it anyway, folks. We've been talking for

1532
01:31:18.880 --> 01:31:22.359
<v Speaker 2>a while. But but yeah, there's a lot going on

1533
01:31:22.399 --> 01:31:25.760
<v Speaker 2>in the world. We'll be back with the something else

1534
01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:29.319
<v Speaker 2>next time. I'm not sure what. And also with the

1535
01:31:29.359 --> 01:31:34.600
<v Speaker 2>final installment in our series on and Or very sad,

1536
01:31:35.159 --> 01:31:38.520
<v Speaker 2>we gotta we gotta pass the baton off to Rogue

1537
01:31:38.560 --> 01:31:42.199
<v Speaker 2>one and see how many of our faves get got.

1538
01:31:42.760 --> 01:31:46.479
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, folks, that's gonna do it for us Today, Eleanor,

1539
01:31:47.359 --> 01:31:48.439
<v Speaker 2>what is going on with you?

1540
01:31:49.640 --> 01:31:53.640
<v Speaker 1>A few things. I went and stopped over on Cancel

1541
01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Me Daddy to talk about historical cancelations, so you can

1542
01:31:57.720 --> 01:32:04.039
<v Speaker 1>check that app out there and over on YouTube, which

1543
01:32:04.039 --> 01:32:08.119
<v Speaker 1>you may have heard of. I did an interview with

1544
01:32:08.199 --> 01:32:12.720
<v Speaker 1>my good friend Ben Smoke for Ralph World, So if

1545
01:32:12.760 --> 01:32:15.319
<v Speaker 1>you check out my socials, I'll have the links up there,

1546
01:32:16.359 --> 01:32:18.720
<v Speaker 1>and we simply love to see it. So if you

1547
01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:22.319
<v Speaker 1>could watch those things and make large magazines that think

1548
01:32:22.359 --> 01:32:24.920
<v Speaker 1>they should hire me for shoots, I would appreciate.

1549
01:32:25.399 --> 01:32:29.399
<v Speaker 2>That would be cool. Yeah, oh yeah, you can. We

1550
01:32:29.399 --> 01:32:35.960
<v Speaker 2>we meet Eleanor. Derek and Danny went on the History

1551
01:32:36.000 --> 01:32:39.840
<v Speaker 2>of Philosophy audio Archive podcast to talk about the first

1552
01:32:39.880 --> 01:32:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Crusade and all that sort of stuff that we did

1553
01:32:43.600 --> 01:32:46.520
<v Speaker 2>with our first Crusades series. So yeah, check that out

1554
01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:49.000
<v Speaker 2>if you want to hear that, and you know, welcome

1555
01:32:49.039 --> 01:32:51.840
<v Speaker 2>to the Welcome to the Crusades dot com if you

1556
01:32:51.880 --> 01:32:56.800
<v Speaker 2>want to check that out. But yeah, I'm normalm where

1557
01:32:56.800 --> 01:32:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I normally am. I'm not normal. I'm very not normal, but.

1558
01:32:59.880 --> 01:33:00.840
<v Speaker 1>I am normal.

1559
01:33:01.279 --> 01:33:03.600
<v Speaker 2>I am not normal. Do not tell the news that

1560
01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:09.079
<v Speaker 2>I am normal. But yeah, I'm on the socials where

1561
01:33:09.079 --> 01:33:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I normally am. You can find my old show, People's

1562
01:33:10.920 --> 01:33:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Sistery of the Old Republic where you are listening to

1563
01:33:14.239 --> 01:33:17.119
<v Speaker 2>this anyway, folks, that's going to do it for us today.

1564
01:33:17.279 --> 01:33:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for listening, and we will see you next time.

1565
01:33:20.439 --> 01:33:22.760
<v Speaker 2>By