Speaker 1: So they can't let that happen. And while the printing
Speaker 1: is bad, they're not what would they rather have keep
Speaker 1: printing and and and make sure things are not going
Speaker 1: apocalypse level or let it crash and then the whole
Speaker 1: world burns down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and that's it's kind of like, you know, scary,
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's like this is kind
Speaker 2: of just the realistic, you know, view of what you know,
Speaker 2: what we kind of what we're in. They have to
Speaker 2: continue to kick this can down until they can't anymore.
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Speaker 1: Welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast Crypto water Cooler Series,
Speaker 1: Episode sixteen. It's been a while since we've done this, David,
Speaker 1: but everyone, I have David, who's the co host of
Speaker 1: the next block YouTube channel with me.
Speaker 2: Hey, how's it going with Tony good Man?
Speaker 1: Seems the market starting to turn a bit. We're starting
Speaker 1: to see some upside after this FED rate cut. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I've seen so much talk right
Speaker 2: now recently with the FED rate cuts and obviously, you know,
Speaker 2: we knew, we expected that there would be I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure how has said you know that there was expected
Speaker 2: to be some rate cuts in twenty twenty four. Some
Speaker 2: people were thinking, no, they're gonna wait till twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: and you know, really it's it's kind of a mixed
Speaker 2: bag on you know, what's gonna happen, you know with
Speaker 2: these uh, you know, rate cuts, and as big as
Speaker 2: they've been, most of the posts I've seen have highlighted that,
Speaker 2: you know, the past few times we've seen. These rate
Speaker 2: cuts have been obviously at the tops of some pretty
Speaker 2: big bubbles, right the two thousand and one you know,
Speaker 2: two thousand dot com bubble, the Wait financial crisis. Uh
Speaker 2: and so there's a lot of fear and uncertainty around that,
Speaker 2: and then you know, with the macro stage. But I've
Speaker 2: also seen some posts if you zoom out right and
Speaker 2: you go back even further, that not all of these
Speaker 2: uh you know, fed or when the FED decides to
Speaker 2: cut rates after you know, having you know, hiked them,
Speaker 2: you know, five or so consecutive times in a row.
Speaker 2: It's not always down only right or or you know,
Speaker 2: meaning that the recession is here. So I think that's
Speaker 2: something to keep in mind, is you really can't just
Speaker 2: take you know, this one single incident and say, Okay,
Speaker 2: recessions coming, you know, I need to sail run for
Speaker 2: the hills, because you know, there's a lot of other
Speaker 2: factors that are going to kind of tie into you know,
Speaker 2: where we go from here. And it does seem like
Speaker 2: Bitcoin is rebounding and you know, acting nice, you know,
Speaker 2: with the you know, recent cuts, it's obviously sitting in
Speaker 2: a very uh you know, interesting spot as far as
Speaker 2: certain indicators that I follow. Definitely seems like it could
Speaker 2: you know, retrace some, but it also could be nearing
Speaker 2: a breakout where we start to see it, you know,
Speaker 2: pump into new all time highs. What are your thoughts
Speaker 2: with the with the recent cuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you brought up some great points, and that is
Speaker 1: everyone is maybe because it's burned in our minds because
Speaker 1: it's traumatic, you know, milestones in the market that took
Speaker 1: place two thousand and one, two thousand and seven. But I
Speaker 1: keep telling people like, it doesn't mean that we're automatically
Speaker 1: just going to crash, especially factors different. There's no mortgage bubble,
Speaker 1: in real estate bubble right and right now. In fact,
Speaker 1: the housing market is almost dead because no one's selling
Speaker 1: and in two thousand and one. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: the same as well, you know, we're not in this. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can argue it as an AI bubble, so to speak,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's as big as the dot
Speaker 1: com bubble at all that that was, you know significant.
Speaker 1: I think AI bubble may go for a few more
Speaker 1: years before do you see some sort of major pullback.
Speaker 1: One could argue that the Japanese yen carry trade situation.
Speaker 1: That crash that took place in early August is almost
Speaker 1: the pricing in of these ray cuts, right if you
Speaker 1: want to say there's going to be some volatility, And
Speaker 1: then September historically it has been a red month for
Speaker 1: the stock market in crypto, So I think come Q four,
Speaker 1: we're gonna see some movement. And I think the short term,
Speaker 1: if you get too blinded by the short term, you're
Speaker 1: gonna miss the macro because I think we're starting the
Speaker 1: next boom cycle. They're coming out of quantitative tightening, the
Speaker 1: cutting rates. What they're going to have to do print
Speaker 1: money to service a debt. Right that is that is
Speaker 1: not an if, That is just a when you know,
Speaker 1: maybe they start qey two months from now and global
Speaker 1: M two is breaking out. So I think bitcoin and
Speaker 1: crypto and the stock market are all going to rally
Speaker 1: off of this. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I will say if you look at bitcoin's history,
Speaker 2: when September has been a green month and it's so
Speaker 2: so far has still been a decent month with you know,
Speaker 2: this recent pop back up, when it has ended green, October, November,
Speaker 2: December have all been really you know, good for bitcoin
Speaker 2: price action, and so not to say that if it,
Speaker 2: you know, does somehow go red that it dooms you know,
Speaker 2: it's all going to you know, come falling down. But
Speaker 2: I still remain pretty optimistic as well. You know, you
Speaker 2: still have elections. There's still many things that could cause
Speaker 2: uncertainty and the price of bitcoin to fluctuate, but to
Speaker 2: fluctuate in a good, uh you know position as well.
Speaker 2: And you kind of mentioned this and I'd be interested,
Speaker 2: you know, I know you've interviewed a lot of people,
Speaker 2: uh you know who talk about you know, financial you know, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, turmoil and stuff like the O eight and
Speaker 2: oh you know two thousand crash. You know those had
Speaker 2: lynch pins, right, you know you said it was internet,
Speaker 2: but you know, Internet kind of just was just blowing
Speaker 2: up so crazy, kind of like AI has been. And
Speaker 2: then O Way obviously was the housing that's what you
Speaker 2: know caused the cascade. What do you think is actually
Speaker 2: going to be the lynch pin? I guess you could
Speaker 2: say for this unwine, because that's the thing I've been
Speaker 2: trying to find out, like or trying to figure out,
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, it's it's probably gonna be a
Speaker 2: lot harder, and it's probably maybe it's gonna be more
Speaker 2: confusing than some may think. But you know, there really
Speaker 2: isn't like right now anything. I feel like that's a
Speaker 2: super big bubble outside of you could say the debt
Speaker 2: right that, you know, the US is in and and
Speaker 2: and just the things that are fed is doing. But
Speaker 2: the economy still seems somewhat resilient.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's you know, people are dealing with higher you know,
Speaker 2: prices on things, but they're still making it right. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're seeing the cracks, you know, start to show up,
Speaker 2: I feel like with credit card debt and just people
Speaker 2: not having as much in savings. So like there's things
Speaker 2: that could you know, you know, that will show themselves,
Speaker 2: but like there's usually always that lynch pin that falls
Speaker 2: out that hey, this is what caused the cascade of everything.
Speaker 2: You know, Oh wait was Leman Brothers and stuff?
Speaker 1: You know? You have?
Speaker 2: What do you think? You know? What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2: So I think I.
Speaker 1: Shared a chart the other day on Twitter if I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken, and I could be wrong on here, but
Speaker 1: there were times in the past where rate cuts didn't
Speaker 1: trigger a crash, but instead of bull market. I think
Speaker 1: it was nineteen ninety five in nineteen eighty seven. After
Speaker 1: that crash, they cut rights and end the market's ripped.
Speaker 1: So it's it's hard to predict these things. But to
Speaker 1: your point, there's no major catalysts here. I was thinking
Speaker 1: maybe about a year ago, the commercial real estates in
Speaker 1: there because no one was going to offices. Companies left
Speaker 1: and so forth, a lot of people virtual. But I
Speaker 1: see a lot more companies are sending people to the
Speaker 1: office now. And I'm not sure, but I think the
Speaker 1: government did a some sort of forbearings or something like
Speaker 1: that right to help out, if I'm not mistaken. So
Speaker 1: I thought that was going to be a catalyst that
Speaker 1: drove was down. But David, what's fascinating, man, is I
Speaker 1: think since two thousand and eight, we're seeing the federal
Speaker 1: government step in and they're printing money and janet yelling,
Speaker 1: and the Treasury, well, I should say the Treasury are
Speaker 1: injecting liquidity to save things. An example in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: why didn't the collapse of those banks drop us like
Speaker 1: that should have been another like two thousand and eight ish.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying not not a severe, but why didn't
Speaker 1: affect the economy and the markets? They stepped in and.
Speaker 2: I'll say this, they're stepping in faster, right Like it
Speaker 2: used to be like they would let things kind of
Speaker 2: like crash and see and like just let something die,
Speaker 2: you know, and then kind of come in, you know,
Speaker 2: sitting you know, a few three six months later and like, okay,
Speaker 2: here's how we fix it. But like even with COVID, right,
Speaker 2: you saw immediately they were like, okay, nope, if we're
Speaker 2: going to try everything thing down, we're going to make
Speaker 2: sure that we're sending out checks like you know, like
Speaker 2: the printer gets. And that's what I'm saying with QE
Speaker 2: now on the horizon. It's like, even if there is
Speaker 2: this maybe lynchpin type thing that happens that might cost
Speaker 2: some you know, fear in the market for a week,
Speaker 2: two weeks and whatnot, it's like, we know that the
Speaker 2: government feels confident, or at least the Fed feels pretty confident.
Speaker 2: You just print tons of money to bail out whoever
Speaker 2: or whatever is needed to keep the market going. And
Speaker 2: and I agree, it's like when you zoom out and
Speaker 2: you look at the like S and P or uh
Speaker 2: you know, Nasdaq, and you look at you know, over
Speaker 2: a long, long, long period time, talking like fifty sixty
Speaker 2: seventy years. It's like, we the chart doesn't really look
Speaker 2: like it's at a blowof top yet, and it does
Speaker 2: seem like, you know, this could still just be one
Speaker 2: of those times where the rates you know, start getting cut,
Speaker 2: but there's still a bull market left to go, and
Speaker 2: a lengthy one at that, so it could go in,
Speaker 2: you know, pretty far into twenty twenty five. And it's
Speaker 2: funny because one of the co hosts I used to
Speaker 2: have on our show, the next Block. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: think of his name now I'm blanking on it. Shoot,
Speaker 2: I can't remember anyways, but he would always highlight how
Speaker 2: you know, he had a chart that it showed the
Speaker 2: bull run topping out for bitcoin in November of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five, and of course this is back in like
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three. It was a jt.
Speaker 2: He was, you know, saying a lot of this, and
Speaker 2: I was like, no, there's no way it's going to
Speaker 2: be that far away. But now it's like it's it
Speaker 2: could literally line up between and be late this, you know,
Speaker 2: coming next year where we see bitcoin really blow off
Speaker 2: and have it have its big run. But obviously it
Speaker 2: could happen sooner.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I don't have a crystal ball, but it's definitely seeming
Speaker 2: like twenty twenty five is going to be a fun
Speaker 2: year for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the macro is setting up for that. The
Speaker 1: money printing, the ray cuts, global M two. I've been
Speaker 1: sharing throughout the year, and not a lot of people
Speaker 1: pay attention to these things, but like China injecting liquidity
Speaker 1: into their markets, this country, the EU doing things and
Speaker 1: they've already they started cutting rates ahead of the FED.
Speaker 1: So it's fascinating, man. And I was the other day.
Speaker 1: I was tweeting, I think the blockchain back there, and
Speaker 1: I was selling him like the Fed and Janet Yellen
Speaker 1: are stepping in. And part of it is all of
Speaker 1: the boomers. The majority of their wealth is in the
Speaker 1: stock market. So if you let that thing crash to
Speaker 1: depression levels, what do you think is going to happen?
Speaker 1: People are going to be killing each other in the streets,
Speaker 1: Like money market funds are gonna dry up, You're gonna
Speaker 1: go to the bank. There's not gonna be cash. You're
Speaker 1: gonna have bank runs like crazy. So they can't let
Speaker 1: that happen. And while the printing is bad, they're not.
Speaker 1: What would they rather have keep printing and make sure
Speaker 1: things are not going apocalypse level or let it crash
Speaker 1: and then the whole world burns down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and that's it's like, you know, it's scary,
Speaker 2: but at the same time, it's like this is kind
Speaker 2: of just the realistic, you know, view of what you know,
Speaker 2: what we kind of what we're in. They have to
Speaker 2: continue to kick this can down until they can't anymore.
Speaker 2: And I don't, like I say, I don't know what
Speaker 2: that lynch pin will be when they actually stop. I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people think that there just needs
Speaker 2: to be a complete, you know overhaul with you know,
Speaker 2: on how we look at monetary policy. Maybe bitcoin is
Speaker 2: a solution to that. Maybe some other crypto that's yet
Speaker 2: to be created as a solution to that. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it definitely is. You know, they're not going
Speaker 2: to just roll over. They're going to continue doing what
Speaker 2: they're doing because they when they benefit from it. But
Speaker 2: you know, there that's it's they're backed into a corner
Speaker 2: to do the only thing they can do. And that's
Speaker 2: and that's why we're seeing this next part of the cycle.
Speaker 2: And it'll be like I said, it'll be interesting to
Speaker 2: see what comes out of this election and what the
Speaker 2: whoever the winner is, whether it's Kamala Harris or Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: you know what they choose to do. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: as far as monetary policy, but I would not be
Speaker 2: shocked to see more q E and you know, an
Speaker 2: easy time, you know, easy money come. You know, you
Speaker 2: know both presidents would want that for their first year.
Speaker 1: I know. People, Look, we're in a very hyper politicized
Speaker 1: time right the election's coming up. I see the comments,
Speaker 1: I see the trigger comments, and it's like, who man,
Speaker 1: I can't wait for this to be over. Let's be clear,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is the pro crypto, can it. He's the
Speaker 1: one that has put its foot down, provided policy and
Speaker 1: so forth. I don't know where the hell Kamlahara stans
Speaker 1: we have it on the topic list here to talk
Speaker 1: about that. She said something yesterday to Wall Street. But
Speaker 1: at end of the day, I see no action. But
Speaker 1: with that aside, no matter if a Democrat Republican goes in,
Speaker 1: the money printer has to keep going because the music
Speaker 1: has to keep going. If the music stops, David, people
Speaker 1: are going to beach out up in the streets, because
Speaker 1: if they lose confidence in the money, if they see
Speaker 1: all their assets crashed down and they're like, what happened
Speaker 1: to my retirement, right, it's going to be nuts.
Speaker 2: So they and especially you know, this new generation, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, I guess you could say we're
Speaker 2: used to getting rugged, like, you know, way faster than
Speaker 2: previous generations. But it still affects people and and and
Speaker 2: most of them still are excited because they realize, oh, well,
Speaker 2: it's just down for a few months and then we're
Speaker 2: going to come back up. But they've never been through
Speaker 2: a real crash. That's what could be scary, and that's
Speaker 2: what I think they want to protect against. But to
Speaker 2: talk about the you know, Kamala versus Trump, who's more
Speaker 2: pro crypto? Who would be better for crypto? I ultimately
Speaker 2: think this right, both candidates, And I feel like I
Speaker 2: leaned fairly in the middle, probably more conservative than liberal
Speaker 2: and certain you know, you know, political views. But as
Speaker 2: far as looking at the candidates, right, I don't care.
Speaker 2: Both of them are going to say whatever they're going
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: That politicians exactly.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I think, Okay,
Speaker 2: who's actually going to change something? If they were to
Speaker 2: get elected, right, And here's where I lean more to.
Speaker 2: It's Trump not saying that he's a better person or
Speaker 2: anything like that, just looking at for crypto, like pro legislation,
Speaker 2: pro crypto movement. I've already I've heard Kamala Harris and
Speaker 2: I've seen rumors that if she were to win, not
Speaker 2: only would you know, there's a good chance that other
Speaker 2: people like Warren would get you know, ossily he could
Speaker 2: win in that scenario and there could be them two
Speaker 2: running it. But she's also mentioned that she likes Ginsler right,
Speaker 2: or that you know, she would put Gensler and Ginsler
Speaker 2: maybe even into a better position. And it's like, we
Speaker 2: know he doesn't like crypto and he's not pro crypto,
Speaker 2: even though he's you know, kind of started out thinking,
Speaker 2: you know, we thought when he got elected it would
Speaker 2: be good for it. But you know, Trump, I feel
Speaker 2: like if he won, he would change he said it.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure sure he's already said he would fire Ginsler, right,
Speaker 2: someone else. And then maybe if Deaton could beat Warren
Speaker 2: and you have a Trump, you know getting in, you
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about Elizabeth Warren. You get a
Speaker 2: new sec Commissioner, like, there are so many things that
Speaker 2: I feel like with that change would be positive for
Speaker 2: I really just don't know if Kamala wins, is she
Speaker 2: going to you know, change anything with Ginsler or is
Speaker 2: it just going to be the same thing we've seen
Speaker 2: where every single time change gets put forward, it just
Speaker 2: gets a big red ax from either Ginsler, it could
Speaker 2: be Harris Warren and her goonies, you know, and all
Speaker 2: the other people who are just anti crypto. So that's
Speaker 2: where I feel like, if you're someone in crypto land
Speaker 2: and you're and you want to see change, you have
Speaker 2: to get new people in with new ideas, hopefully younger
Speaker 2: people with younger ideas that actually want to see some
Speaker 2: of these de five platforms contend with some of the
Speaker 2: big banks and some of the you know stuff that
Speaker 2: we're seeing out there. But that's more or less what
Speaker 2: I see and is partly why I would like to
Speaker 2: see a Trump victory, because I do think he would
Speaker 2: bring in some new skin that could possibly get more
Speaker 2: change done on the side of crypto. I know he
Speaker 2: said he wants to, you know, make the United States
Speaker 2: the crypto capital of the world. We're going to hold
Speaker 2: the most bitcoin and all these things. Like I said, though,
Speaker 2: that's a lot of that's just talk. I don't really
Speaker 2: you know, there's no there's no guarantee. You didn't have
Speaker 2: a concrete plan on how he's going to do it.
Speaker 2: But I do think he would follow through with getting
Speaker 2: rid of Ginsler and hopefully getting in some more pro
Speaker 2: crypto people into the scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I agree with you. Like you, I'm more
Speaker 1: of an independent and uh, you know, there's certain things
Speaker 1: I I agree with conservatives on, and there's certain things
Speaker 1: I agree with progressives or even want to democrats or
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call him. But Donald Trump is
Speaker 1: the clear leader here. And I wrote a newsletter this
Speaker 1: morning about this. I'm not giving Kamala Harris the benefit
Speaker 1: of the doubt because you're currently in office with Biden
Speaker 1: and this nonsense is happening under your watch. So yeah,
Speaker 1: talk is cheap. I need to see action, you see policy.
Speaker 1: I need to see words coming out that we're going
Speaker 1: to make a big change of the sec well less things.
Speaker 1: Those words come out of your mouth and it's on
Speaker 1: paper as well. Nobody, I'm not believing you. And it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of be yes, And I know, like a
Speaker 1: lot of Democrats, to their credit, have partnered with the
Speaker 1: Republicans to pass like the FIT twenty one bill out
Speaker 1: of the House. I give them a lot of credit
Speaker 1: for that. They tried to repeal ASAB one two one.
Speaker 1: I saw Chuck Schumer obviously a big departure from Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Warren saying he's ready to work with Republicans to pass stuff.
Speaker 1: So that's really good. The issue is, though to what
Speaker 1: you're saying, whoever gets in office one is ready to
Speaker 1: maybe sign the crypto legislation bill, which is Trump Kamlin
Speaker 1: hars I don't know. She could say no, I don't care,
Speaker 1: right because he has not made any type of clear stance.
Speaker 1: There's no policy, so right now it's all fugezy, is
Speaker 1: just whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's you know, it kind of sucks, but
Speaker 2: you know, and the same time, it's like, this is
Speaker 2: what drives markets wild, right, is uncertainty. And this is
Speaker 2: why I think you could see leading into the elections,
Speaker 2: bitcoins start to take off and become a focal point
Speaker 2: because as both of these candidate, it's want to gain
Speaker 2: traction from the crypto communities. You know, they're going to
Speaker 2: want to, you know, make certain moves and say certain
Speaker 2: things to get people excited about the space. And honestly,
Speaker 2: it's why I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a
Speaker 2: run up right in October. October, if some people want
Speaker 2: to call it for bitcoin, and end of November where
Speaker 2: Bitcoin just does finally break out go to new all
Speaker 2: time highs, maybe we see an alt rally, But I
Speaker 2: would be a little hesitant on thinking that that rally
Speaker 2: would just continue into the spring of next year. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if we did see whoever wins. Maybe
Speaker 2: then there's a lull right as that transfer or power
Speaker 2: happens and we don't really have a lot of activity.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just still like wondering what's going to happen,
Speaker 2: and then maybe it ramps back up in you know,
Speaker 2: early twenty twenty five to maybe mid late you know,
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: So, David, are you thinking we see the top in
Speaker 1: late twenty twenty five or early twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: I mean, at this point, like I guess, it really
Speaker 2: just depends on who gets elected and what we see
Speaker 2: from that. I feel like if Trump were to get elected,
Speaker 2: I would not be I wouldn't be surprised to see
Speaker 2: an early kind of blow off top maybe early. I
Speaker 2: feel like if it is Kamala, it could be something
Speaker 2: that kind of takes a little bit longer, just because
Speaker 2: there's just so much uncertainty, you don't know, and it
Speaker 2: might not come as much as maybe we want it
Speaker 2: right because we don't know what regulation we look like
Speaker 2: if Ginsler gets what he wants, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: there's really a lot of uncertainty there. But I do
Speaker 2: think that if Trump wins and we get a new
Speaker 2: SEC commissioner and it's someone who's pro crypto, and obviously
Speaker 2: as if Trump follows through with a lot of the
Speaker 2: pro crypto things and pro bitcoin things he said, I mean,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five could be just a massive year for
Speaker 2: bitcoin and it could come very fast as we've seen,
Speaker 2: you know, these impulses right when when bitcoin does break out,
Speaker 2: because it's still just consoliding, like you zum out on
Speaker 2: bitcoin for the last six months, it's literally been just
Speaker 2: chopping between sixty and seventy you know K. But it
Speaker 2: breaks out, I mean, it takes a week, two weeks,
Speaker 2: three weeks, and it could go to one hundred hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty K. So that's what you have to be
Speaker 2: ready for if you're in crypto and you're holding these
Speaker 2: things is it doesn't take long for these things to happen.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what catches so many people off
Speaker 2: guard is by the time it does finally pop two
Speaker 2: three weeks later, they think, oh my gosh, it's here,
Speaker 2: and it's like that's it, Like, you know, that's the
Speaker 2: big meat of the move. Take the profits, sit back,
Speaker 2: wait because it can also do another one of those
Speaker 2: consolidation phases. And you know, money can move out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point, it can move really fast. And
Speaker 1: this is why, like we've said in previous episodes, have
Speaker 1: a plan, Like if you're pashing out some bitcoin at whatever,
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand, stick to that plan. Yeah, versus, oh man,
Speaker 1: it moved really fast. It means it's going to go
Speaker 1: even higher next. No, there's no guarantee of that, So
Speaker 1: you have to stick to your plan and regardless of
Speaker 1: the timeline, like like you're saying, if it happens earlier
Speaker 1: late or it happens at the end of this year,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but just have a plan so that
Speaker 1: you take your profits and you don't get caught flat footed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know one of the things we were
Speaker 2: going to talk about was, you know, at a high
Speaker 2: level at least, was black Rock. You know, they had
Speaker 2: a little bit of changes with how they're or how
Speaker 2: coin Base is going to custody their bitcoin right and
Speaker 2: you even had Base recently issue now c B bitcoin.
Speaker 2: So coin Base is version of bitcoin, and there is
Speaker 2: still kind of muddy in the water on like who's
Speaker 2: verifying how much you know, are they actually holding this bitcoin?
Speaker 2: What are they doing with it? We don't know. You
Speaker 2: have to think back in the past really big blow
Speaker 2: off tops of bitcoin. Really it's it's blown off because
Speaker 2: of manipulation, if you if you really boil it down
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and a lot of these things
Speaker 2: can kind of you know, have their blow off tops
Speaker 2: with manipulation, especially when these large exchanges like Buinance, Coinbase
Speaker 2: and things like that get in the mix because they
Speaker 2: hold so much of the you know, so much of
Speaker 2: it that they can kind of do what they want
Speaker 2: with it and kind of you know, fudge things here
Speaker 2: and there. It seems now, I know, Coinbase is obviously
Speaker 2: maybe more trusted than Finance and certain other exchanges, especially
Speaker 2: here in the US, but I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 2: you know, manipulation is not a reason in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five why we get our next blowoff top because you
Speaker 2: still have these large, large, you know, institutions like Blackrock
Speaker 2: now in the space. They have their hands in everywhere,
Speaker 2: and to an extent, they can kind of do what
Speaker 2: they want because we still don't know regulation wise, you know,
Speaker 2: how everything's gonna you know, play out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's there's been a lot of controversy with Coinbase
Speaker 1: on blackrocksually because people have been saying, like, oh, should
Speaker 1: we trust Coinbase. It seems like they're doing some paper
Speaker 1: bitcoin issue ins or whatever with black Rock. And then
Speaker 1: to your point, there was an updated verbiage or filing
Speaker 1: with the SEC that black Rock put together and I'll
Speaker 1: read out the details here, but we don't have a
Speaker 1: full write up on it, but it says here coin
Speaker 1: based custody must now process a withdrawal of digital assets
Speaker 1: to a public blockchain address within twelve hours of receiving
Speaker 1: instructions from the Trust or its authorized representatives, subject to
Speaker 1: specific balance requirements. So yeah, there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: public criticism of coinbase and the black Rock and it
Speaker 1: comes around when the SEC just approved options for black
Speaker 1: rocks Bitcoin ETF. So I'm hearing a lot of positive
Speaker 1: information about that that it's going to bring a lot
Speaker 1: more liquidity, a lot more investors. But some people are saying, hey,
Speaker 1: look more paper bitcoin to your point of manipulation, these
Speaker 1: are the tools that have been used to manipulate gold
Speaker 1: and other assets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing. It's like every
Speaker 2: single blowoff top run that we've seen in crypto, right,
Speaker 2: there's always something that is you know, in hindsight, it's like,
Speaker 2: how did we not see that as just a massive,
Speaker 2: you know, just table of cards, right. Obviously the last
Speaker 2: one was really Tara Luna and a lot of what
Speaker 2: happened there with one of you know, with their whole
Speaker 2: stable coin and what they were doing. And now a
Speaker 2: lot of people were wondering, is it gonna be something
Speaker 2: related to bitcoin with a lot of this you know
Speaker 2: paper bitcoin that's being traded around like our exchange is
Speaker 2: actually holding it proof of reserves. We don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: what's really happening. It'll be interesting to see, like what
Speaker 2: public blockchain are they talking about that they have to
Speaker 2: I guess show those transactions on I don't know if
Speaker 2: they mentioned that more in the in that post or
Speaker 2: in the you know, wording of it. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it'd be like Base or just some other you know,
Speaker 2: centralized blockchain. I don't really know, but yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: very interesting. Uh when it comes to this manipulation, is
Speaker 2: like where's the you know, where's the shady stuff being
Speaker 2: done at because we know it's happening, right and and
Speaker 2: that's that's the scary part about this space anything and investing,
Speaker 2: is you know there's shady stuff going on. It's just
Speaker 2: kind of hard to pinpoint it when like you know,
Speaker 2: with the regulation, we don't have clear rules for some
Speaker 2: of these big players that they have to play by.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, and my hope is they're not. There's there's
Speaker 1: not something setting up here for some major manipulation.
Speaker 2: Let's hope not, you know, And I'm sure I'll get.
Speaker 2: I know, I get playing a lot because I post
Speaker 2: pretty against this certain chain. But I still think Solana
Speaker 2: is a table of cards. Like I know a lot
Speaker 2: of people love Solana and they think it's the next
Speaker 2: best thing, but like there are so many red flags
Speaker 2: if you actually just look at the chain and what
Speaker 2: it's doing. I mean, you know, they've had, they've done shoes,
Speaker 2: they've done phones, like they're just trying to curate to
Speaker 2: the next hype thing. And even with like, however, long
Speaker 2: now that they've had uptime, like, I still don't see
Speaker 2: anything legit being built on this blockchain other than meme coins.
Speaker 2: And I mean, and you're having some of the biggest
Speaker 2: meme coins with like Mother, with Iggy, you know, throwing
Speaker 2: parties in Singapore and going on Wall Street and talking
Speaker 2: with you know, Jim Kramer. It's like, you know, there
Speaker 2: is a lot of shady things happening on that chain.
Speaker 2: So I still don't really touch soalanage because I feel
Speaker 2: like in the next big run, that is a chain
Speaker 2: where I already know shady stuff happens, and it happens
Speaker 2: a lot, and I'm not gonna risk losing you know,
Speaker 2: the bulk of my worth in either holding soul, the
Speaker 2: you know, the the native token or even stable coins
Speaker 2: or whatever on that chain. Like that is still one
Speaker 2: that I have my I'm watching just because I know
Speaker 2: it's not as trusted as Bitcoin, as an ethereum or
Speaker 2: even you know, you could say some of the other ones,
Speaker 2: but it is, you know, one of the largest chains
Speaker 2: out there as far as volume right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am a bit reservations as well, and I
Speaker 1: hope it's not something that's also just being set up
Speaker 1: for some epig crash. Obviously I hold some soul tokens,
Speaker 1: but I'm more playing the speculative side of it. I'm
Speaker 1: not like some a sole advocate or whatever, but just
Speaker 1: in making a return. But to your point, there are
Speaker 1: some red flags as far as what's happening with the
Speaker 1: chain and is some of this legit or not?
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, but that's that's the entire space, right
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I was on our last show
Speaker 2: this past Thursday, on the next block Meet and see
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. You know, there was a group that,
Speaker 2: you know, I guess they got into Gemini or they
Speaker 2: it was one of the big exchanges, and they ended
Speaker 2: up stealing like two hundred and thirty million dollars worth
Speaker 2: of bitcoin. I believe it was and obviously is a
Speaker 2: big deal. But like that's still the reality of the
Speaker 2: space we're in is there is a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: questionable things happening. There's a lot of scammers, there's a
Speaker 2: lot that still has yet to be kind of sorted out.
Speaker 2: And I think that's why we're still you know, kind
Speaker 2: of at this just spot that we are as far
Speaker 2: as like adoption, right, people still don't feel comfortable, you know,
Speaker 2: putting big money, even with exchanges, right because there's still
Speaker 2: a chance that it gets stolen from them and as
Speaker 2: we know, not your keys, not your crypto and so
Speaker 2: you know, there's a whole side of you know, the
Speaker 2: crypto space that has yet to really get warmed up
Speaker 2: to wanting to try And I know we could talk
Speaker 2: a little bit about this, but I know Coinbase is
Speaker 2: trying to make you know, efforts to bring a billion
Speaker 2: you know users on chain. They're doing this thing called
Speaker 2: coinbase quests now with various chains that use US d
Speaker 2: C to try to get people using DeFi and n
Speaker 2: f t s and all this stuff. It's not really
Speaker 2: in the US yet because of regulation, but it's it's
Speaker 2: you know, in that greater part of the world just
Speaker 2: because they can transact and do more with DeFi and
Speaker 2: n f t s. But you know, certain things are
Speaker 2: certain strides are being made, but it's still not as
Speaker 2: easy as it needs to be from a user standpoint.
Speaker 2: And I think that's why, you know, like most of
Speaker 2: what we've talked about is still so much in the
Speaker 2: unknown as far as you know, winter, these blowofs kind
Speaker 2: of come wins, adoption going to happen, things like that.
Speaker 2: Things got to get easier for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: and it's got to get out way safer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got to figure it out, and I don't
Speaker 1: know how far away we are from those solutions that
Speaker 1: make it very easy and we have these safety controls.
Speaker 1: Although the one with the hack that you're talking about
Speaker 1: is the guys, the two young guys who stole like
Speaker 1: four thousand bitcoin and it's like worth two hundred and
Speaker 1: something million, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think one of the gap main guys I saw
Speaker 2: was zach xbte or whatever. His Twitter kind of had
Speaker 2: a whole thread on it. It's so funny too that they
Speaker 2: recorded themselves like once they actually got to be like
Speaker 2: it's just like it really doesn't make you think that
Speaker 2: like this space is still so like wild West, because
Speaker 2: it's like it's not these sophisticated, like you know, suit
Speaker 2: and tie type people. It's literally just people who know
Speaker 2: how to really had a socially engineer and work a
Speaker 2: computer really well. And you know, then they go out
Speaker 2: and they blow all their money on cars and crazy
Speaker 2: things and they get caught. Right, it's like Bernie madeof
Speaker 2: but just teenagers and twenty year olds who just knew
Speaker 2: how to use a computer really well.
Speaker 1: For sure. I know this week last item here we
Speaker 1: got the sec Ginster is going to appear before hearing.
Speaker 1: They have all five commissioners appearing at a hearing, and
Speaker 1: obviously this follows. They're well knowne to open sea. Obviously
Speaker 1: they settled with ETRO. I WISHTRO had fought back, but
Speaker 1: it should be some fireworks this week. Are you going
Speaker 1: to be watching some of those hearings?
Speaker 2: For sure, I'll be tuning in obviously. You know, Twitter
Speaker 2: does a really good job giving you the cliff notes
Speaker 2: as well if you miss everything live. But you know,
Speaker 2: it seems like every time we hear Ginzler speak, it's
Speaker 2: just a lot. It just frustrates me, just because he
Speaker 2: just dodges questions that he knows he can answer, but
Speaker 2: he won't because obviously he's you know, I would say
Speaker 2: told not to and told not to give clear concise.
Speaker 2: It's just kind of the political jargon that we had
Speaker 2: to endure. But I think actually it's dumb, right, you know,
Speaker 2: going after Open Sea and you know, UNI swap and
Speaker 2: certain things, because it's it's in the world we have now.
Speaker 2: I saw someone make at tweet and it was like, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, Win's target going to get flagged where there
Speaker 2: you know, selling of unregistered securities And it was just
Speaker 2: a photo of the wall with like baseball cards and
Speaker 2: Pokemon cards and Yu gi Oh cards and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Because it's like those are collectibles. Those are you know, yes,
Speaker 2: it's a physical collectible, but you know there's a market
Speaker 2: to those if you go and you look and it's
Speaker 2: like it's the same thing. And I think n f
Speaker 2: t s should be seen as as what they are, collectibles,
Speaker 2: it's not securities. These you know, there's a pretty clear difference,
Speaker 2: I would say, now, you know, as far as certain
Speaker 2: tokens being securities and not, you know, hey there you
Speaker 2: might have more of a case. But I think going
Speaker 2: after n FTS and what's going on there, I think
Speaker 2: it's just it's really just the SEC trying to slow
Speaker 2: crypto as much as it possibly can. And that's where
Speaker 2: even going back to kind of what we said at
Speaker 2: the beginning, I think we just need a new you know,
Speaker 2: someone different to lead you know the sec outside of
Speaker 2: Gary Ginzler, because I think he's just either he's either
Speaker 2: he's bought out and he just can't make the decisions
Speaker 2: he wants to make and to help the space, you know, grow,
Speaker 2: or he really does not want to see it grow,
Speaker 2: and like I said, we just need somebody new that
Speaker 2: has a better idea of what crypto is, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: to get it pushed forward.
Speaker 1: Well, I believe he's bought out. I think he saw
Speaker 1: his videos before he went to the SE and the
Speaker 1: man was promoting al Graham talking about how great crypto is.
Speaker 1: He was teaching about it at MIT, so all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, these are all securities and blah blah blah
Speaker 1: and this and that. It's it's all nonsense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean literally, I vividly. I mean that's one
Speaker 2: of the reasons I started when I started the next block,
Speaker 2: we honed in on Algram because it was like, you
Speaker 2: know what, this chain is really fast. It hasn't gone
Speaker 2: down at the time, I mean it was doing. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was a top twenty five even top fifteen blockchain
Speaker 2: by market cap and then obviously, you know, he flips
Speaker 2: tail and starts calling it as security and then you
Speaker 2: know it's and he even knows the founder, Sylvia mcaulay,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's like it's very shady, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of everything he's done ever since he took you know,
Speaker 2: kind of control, and so it definitely feel like he
Speaker 2: has bought out. And that's why I would love to
Speaker 2: see you know, that's something Kamala could do, like even
Speaker 2: if Biden did it now, right, but something that she
Speaker 2: could say, Hey, we're going to you know, we're going
Speaker 2: to win the crypto community by our actions, and we're
Speaker 2: going to go ahead and get rid of him and
Speaker 2: put someone in that's actually pro crypto, Like you want
Speaker 2: to win a lot of votes from the crypto side,
Speaker 2: make a move like that. Don't let him just sit here,
Speaker 2: install and deflect and just you know, make it even
Speaker 2: muddier than it already is for these businesses to want
Speaker 2: to operate in the US because we're losing so much
Speaker 2: you know, talent and value with you know, dragging our
Speaker 2: feet here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, question is will she do that?
Speaker 2: And I don't think she's gonna get the chance. I mean,
Speaker 2: like I I was thinking to this too, is like
Speaker 2: Trump could go down as the only president to be
Speaker 2: to and zero against going against women. As far as
Speaker 2: getting elected, he would be the only one because he's
Speaker 2: literally like both times now he's had to run against women.
Speaker 2: Don't really know if that will benefitimity, but you know,
Speaker 2: I really can't. I don't see even though there's a
Speaker 2: I follow a poly market, which is obviously uh you know,
Speaker 2: a platform where you can place bets on political things
Speaker 2: and whatnot, and it still shows Kamala with a slim lead,
Speaker 2: But I don't know. For me, it's like I just
Speaker 2: don't see, you know, her beating Trump. I think I
Speaker 2: think Trump has it in the bag, but maybe maybe
Speaker 2: the race is a lot closer than I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's weird, man, this election cycle, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously with the switch with Biden and then yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just a lot going on and we'll see. Man, it's
Speaker 1: hard to tell. And sometimes that there's so many different
Speaker 1: polls and many I don't even know what to believe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the thing with Twitter, right, I mean
Speaker 2: you have like it's I aman saw something where it's
Speaker 2: talking about like you know news that used to be
Speaker 2: when it would break, like you'd be talking about it
Speaker 2: for you know, six months, right and now it's like
Speaker 2: massive news breaks, a crazy conspiracy becomes true, and it's
Speaker 2: like two weeks and then it's just replaced by something else.
Speaker 2: I mean, now the whole world's you know, trying to
Speaker 2: track down whoever Diddy had a party with, and you know,
Speaker 2: surfacing videos of Diddy talking with Clinton, Diddy talking with
Speaker 2: Obama and saying like, oh, you know, they're all in it,
Speaker 2: you know, in these Diddy parties. What's it going to
Speaker 2: be next week? Right, what are we going to be,
Speaker 2: you know, talking about It's really hard to keep up
Speaker 2: with everything that's going on. I'm just glad football's here
Speaker 2: and the Steelers are doing good. Let's be we can
Speaker 2: all agree on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to the election to be
Speaker 1: over because this is so noisy. Man. Uh, your point,
Speaker 1: like sports seasons back, so at least get an escape.
Speaker 1: But we'll leave it at that. David, great stuff, man.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on