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Speaker 1: You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership

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through your Apple account in the Apple Podcast app and

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also through Patreon or Spotify. To unlock a full VIP

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membership with full access to archives and ad free website

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Podcast app and many iOS and Android apps, along with

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streaming ability right from our ad free mobile site, go

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to pwtorch dot com slash go VIP. That's pwtorch dot

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com slash go VIP That'll give you all the details

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on everything you're missing out on by not being a

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VIP member, the whole array of VIP exclusive podcasts like

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The Way Keller news bulletins, our post pay per view roundtables,

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The Fix that I host with Todd Martin, Everything with

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Rich and Wade, and an array of other shows with

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different hosts and different themes, along with unlocking our archives

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dating back nearly four decades nearly two thousand. Pro Wrestling

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Torch weekly newsletters over two decades, a podcast on demand

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dating back to the mid two thousand, starting with pay

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per view roundtables of fascinating retro radio shows, including many

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that I hosted in the nineteen nineties and an AD

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free website. Exclusive content on that website only for VIP

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members written and audio, and a lightning fast, smooth, AD

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free VIP mobile site for all of our content. Don't

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miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a

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VIP membership pw torch dot com slash Go VIP, Go

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all the Way, Go VIP. Pw torch dot com slash

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Go VIP. This weekend is WWW SummerSlam. Very early in

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August ten years ago, WWE's pay per view around this

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time was the Battleground pay per View on July twenty fourth,

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twenty sixteen, and on today's PW Torch Daily Cast were

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bringing you back ten years to the live postgame show

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with Greg Parks and James Caldwell reacting to that event

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right after it concluded with live callers, plus add something

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the draft and talk leading into WWE's big brand split.

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This event headlined by a Battle of Shield members just

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like we'll see Sunday Night between Seth and Roman Rains.

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This is Dean Ambrose, Roman Rains and Seth Rollins for

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the WWE title. Also, Big Cast, who's making his return,

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Took teamed with Enzo and John Cena. Kind of a

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weird three sum but kind of makes sense in some

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ways too when you look back against aj Styles in

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the Club, Luke Gallows and Carl Anderson. Also Darren Young

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with Bob Backland that was so weird against the Miz

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for the Intercontinental title. Becky Lynch against Natalia, Kevin Owens

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and Sammy Zain in one of their classics. Also Zach

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Ryder against Rusev. Some familiar names here with Russev back

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on the roster. Also, plus Bailey and Sasha Banks against

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Charlotte and Dana Brook, The White Family against New Day,

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all three members the usso's against Brazoco in a pre

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show match. All that analyzed and covered here on the

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post show. Let's get to it. This originally live streamed

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on July twenty fourth, twenty sixteen, and it is today's

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best of PW Torch Daily Cast for Friday, July thirty first,

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twenty twenty six Here.

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Speaker 2: We go, we O.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the PW Torch Live Cast. I am Wade Keller,

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editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter and

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PW torch dot Com, and it is Friday July fifteenth,

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two thousand and eleven, and we've got a lot to

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talk about. We are on the eve eve of money

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in the Bank on Sunday Night, one of the more

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anticipated WWE pay per views since probably WrestleMania, with a

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big cmpunk John Cena Showdown. I think the bloom off

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the roads a little bit with the TV ratings shattering

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the perception that the cm punk angle is one of

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the hottest angles in years. The ratings show that it

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burned very intensely with an Internet that it was catered to,

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but it did not capture the imagination of the vast

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mainstream audience at WWE goes after the empirical evidence is

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in and it's not you know, it's anecdotal in the

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sense that it's still possible they could poper rating on Monday.

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But the fact is is the rating was down way

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more on Monday than typical up against the home Run

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Derby on ESPN and the Major League Baseball All Star

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Game ratings were down this year the next night, which

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you know, would indicate that WWE, if they had a

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real solid audience and a hot angle that on a

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massive scale cared a lot about the cmpunk angle. And

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this next chapter in it it's not like there was

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a ton of passion for the All Star All Star

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Game this year, so that you'd think would bleed over

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into the home run derby the night before. But nevertheless,

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also last night's TNA Impact, Sting regains the TNA World

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Heavyweight title from mister Anderson in the main event, a

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two hour theme of evil Clown, the Sting's Evil Clown

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Army attacking and more one by one by one and

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clearing the deck for Staying to beat mister Anderson without

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excessive interference from Immortal. I thought it was kind of curious,

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and it's one thing Bruce Mitchell and I, by the way,

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for VIP members, did a one hour review of last

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night's Impact, really went in depth on this big addition

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because it's right after a pay per view and it

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continues to bound for glory hype and it really is

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a big shift in gears with the world title change.

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And we did one hour breaking down the show and

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posted that earlier today for VIP members. One point I

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did not bring up in that one hour discussion with

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Bruce is that somebody asked aj Styles after he attacked

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and beat down Gunner in the parking lot somebody said,

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where's Bully Ray, and AJ styles said that's been taken

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care of something to that effect, But it turned out

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it wasn't. Billy Ray was hiding in the off Immortal's

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office and was not beaten down by the evil clowns,

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and thus was I can't believe I'm saying this, and

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was thus free to at least attempt to interfere on

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behalf of mister Anderson. So I don't know if that

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was a storytelling glitch or if that's foreshadowing that AJ

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was like was giving false assurances to his friends that

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they had taken care of Billy Ray, but in reality,

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you know, he wasn't taking care of it. I don't know,

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could be reading too much into it, but it was

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one kind of dangling, unexplained thing. If somebody listening to

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the show has an answer for that, and it can

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explain what AJ meant by that, if you watched the

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show last night, I'd definitely be interested in hearing that.

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So that lays on the table some subjects that we

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can talk about. We're gonna I'm gonna be joined in

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ten fifteen twenty minutes by John Pierre Marini. He's not

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able to join us due to other commitments at the

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very top of today's show, But he'll be joining us

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if you don't know who he is and you're a

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new listener. He is a lately been a weekly contributor

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as a co host on the show here. He is

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a former WWE rider from two thousand and nine and

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twenty ten, almost all of both of those years. He

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spent nearly two years in WWE, including working the last

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two Wrestling Mania. Is working firsthand, one on one with

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Sam Punk and John Cena over the years and provides

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unique insight and analysis from his experience behind the scenes.

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So he's going to be joining us in like I said,

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ten to fifteen minutes, as soon as he's able to

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call in. So I definitely encourage everybody to who's interesting

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in calling and talking about that to get your questions ready.

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If you are on hold and you very specifically have

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a question for John Piermarini, I recommend you hang up

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and just call back once he's on because I'm going

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to start taking phone calls and we literally have I

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don't need to say literally, we got nine people on

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hold wanting to talk right now, So it's a record

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number of people in mine here on a Friday. If

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your questions for John Piermarini, go ahead and call back

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once he gets on. That way, we don't have to

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go through people not wanting to give a general question

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or talk to me, because I want to get a

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few phone calls in before John joins us. John will

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be staying around after the bottom of the hour, I believe.

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I didn't double check the schedule, but I think he

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can stay around for a few minutes, so we may

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for live for archive listeners, we may go longer than

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an hour, and then we'll do some portion afterwards. Also,

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that's VIP exclusive where VIP members have a chance to

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listen to some content that is exclusive for VIP members.

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If you're interested in a pw Torch VIP membership, I'm

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planning to run a special this weekend. It's a big

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weekend with money in the bank and it's been a

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while since we did that. I haven't decided what is

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gonna be yet, but this weekend or really tonight, as

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soon as the show is over, I'll probably be posting

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something on pw torch dot com. So if you're listening

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to us live or on delay on iTunes or at blog,

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talk radio or elsewhere, and you're interested in jumping on board,

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it's a great time to jump on board. We're gonna

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have part seven of the Diamond Dallas Page Torch Talk

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posted another full hour with Dallas Page with great in

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depth talk about his career making I mean, it was

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really the biggest moment of his career in terms of

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elevating him against Rain Savage. And this installment parts seven

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and this is the seventh hour of this Torch Talk,

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and all seven hours are available if you become a

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VIP member right now. And it's a great torch talk

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marching through behind the scenes Dallas Page, who was friends

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with Eric Bischoff behind the scenes during ww's pre Nitro

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era and got to see all the follies of that era,

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and he talks about that in depth, and then also

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the rise of Nitro and the integral part of it

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that he was and great stories about people he helped,

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people who helped him, and the doubters and a lot

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of good stuff. And by the way, also as a

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VP member, not only can you immediately upon becoming a

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VIP member download those seven installments of the Dallas Page

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Torch Talk, and also We've got more coming up and

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I'll be doing more sessions with him, but we're also

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transcribing it in the PW Torch newsletter every week. Two

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different editions of the PW Torch Newsletter went out this week.

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We just posted the second sixteen page issue earlier today

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in PDF format. It's great to read on an iPad.

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I'm a new iPad on and have been enjoying that.

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We also put up back issues from five, ten and

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twenty years ago that are also in PDF format. Their

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computer screen friendly, laptop friendly, but a specially you can

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print them, but they're great on the iPad too. You

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get instant access as a VIP member to our archives

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with hundreds and hundreds of back issues dating back to

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the late eighties, and we put up two or three

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three new ones typically every single week from five, ten

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and twenty years ago. Some pretty cool stuff to look

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back on, especially going back twenty years, it's pretty crazy.

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So anyway, we'll we'll have a special on the VIP

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membership and so I encourage you to check out PW

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torch dot com. It'll be at the top of the

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main listing and you can see what that special is.

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So I'm sure. Well, what I'll do is I'll just

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put together a pretty big discount on signing up for

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one month, and so you'll be able to get in

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the door cheaper than our normal rate of ten dollars

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for a month, and it'll just be this weekend that

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we're running it, so you're gonna want to jump on

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that offer. But that will also include immediate access to

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our post Destination X pay per view roundtable that Bruce Mitchell,

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Pat McNeil and I recorded last Sunday night, the one

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hour post Raw Keller Hotline that Bruce Mitchell joined me

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for where we broke down the pros and cons and

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there were good and bad on Monday's show, big edition

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of Raw with those disappointing ratings, one hour of analysis

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with Bruce Mitchell and me, and then also one hour

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of Bruce Mitchell and me analyzing impact last night, and

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also our post Money in the Bank roundtable with Bruce

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Patt and myself or Bruce Patt and me discussing that

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pay per view on Sunday night right afterwards, and we'll

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have that available to VIP members on Sunday night. One

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programming note, even if you don't go VIP this weekend,

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and like I said, it's great week to go because

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we're gonna give a big discount to jump on board

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and tries for a month, but everybody gets a free

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listen to the live cast a special edition of it

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on Sunday night after Money in the Bank. James Caldell

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and Greg Parks will be hosting that and taking her

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calls live after Money in the Bank. I believe James

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is starting at a half hour after the pay per

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view NDS, but double check at blogtalk radio dot com

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to look at future show schedules and you can double

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check that it'll leave it starting at eleven thirty Eastern.

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So we don't do it after every pay per view,

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but this one's a big one. And well, Bruce Mitchell,

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Pat McNeil and I are recording the VIP audio show

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that we'll post Sunday night. James and Greg will be

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hosting the PW Torch live cast live. All right, With

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all of that said and out of the way, like

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I said, John Permerini will be joining us very soon

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here on the show. And I am, by the way,

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going to open the chat room for those of you

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who are disappointed that I did not already apologize for that.

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So the chatroom should be launched in about three seconds,

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so you can jump on in and participate live in

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a discussion with other listeners. Now, what I want to

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do is jump on the phone lines and let's if

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who can get some phone calls in on curt events

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before John Permerini joins us, and we'll go ahead and

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begin with area code nine one four. Thanks for holding.

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Please stay your name and where you're from.

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Speaker 4: How's it going?

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Speaker 5: This is Johnny from New York.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Johnny from New York. What's on your mind?

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Speaker 5: I just read a Patrick Gay's preview room predictions for

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money in the bank and his care for the Punk match.

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It was pretty out there's something I don't think would

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ever happen, but it would definitely be a dream. I

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don't know if you got a chance to read it,

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but basically it was all about like next has taken

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over and the Ring of Honor wrestlers coming out and

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help them punk and punk and escape and within the championship,

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and then he kind of went into the aftermath Monday

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night and whatnot. You what do you think the chances

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of anything like that even happening? And what do you

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think realistically what actually happen to Sunday in the main event.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm not ruling out much of anything, and I

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didn't read Pat's column. He just put it up put

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twenty minutes ago and I didn't have a chance to

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read it yet. But a scenario like that, I mean,

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I wouldn't rule it out. You know, Pat's calls these

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predictions in quote marks, but in a way it's kind

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of like what he might do. In fact, he even

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says at the beginning and the disclaimer projections are based

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on what the columnist would do if he were booking

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this event instead of Bully McMahon, the idiot daughter, the

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dufist son in law in their respective ass kissers as

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that in as Pat put it. So you know, it

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has kind of fantasy booking to a degree, or suggestive booking,

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I guess would be another way to put it. But

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I think we're gonna see, and I don't know that

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it's even with the TV ratings on Monday, I'm not

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sure that they're gonna change course. Even though the ratings

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were very disappointing, and I think, you know, a lesson,

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it was a learning moment for all of us who

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got excited about the punk promos. But you know, James

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Caldell took some heat forward immediately when he reported in

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his Raw report that you know, this punk promot's good,

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you know when it caters to a certain slice of

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the audience. But is it gonna go over the heads

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of a lot of mainstream fans and are they going

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to feel kind left out or lost? And so far

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the ratings indicate there might be something to that. So

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I think the original plan all along if I had

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to guess, and I'm not confident in this, but if

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I'm cornered into guessing, I think John Cen is gonna

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be Cea on Punk, and I think he's gonna be

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in Clean, and I think Punk's gonna go away. And

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I think on Monday, the gears are gonna shift entire

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or the storylines are gonna shift entirely to Summer Slam

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one month from now, on August fourteenth, and they're gonna

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shift to something else. And it's probably gonna be something

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I having to do with the money in the bank,

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winner or an angle I have to pay per view,

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or on rob that sets up you know, perhaps Alberto

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del Rio, whether he wins or loses money in the bank.

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He won that number one contender match and it got

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taken from him when Sam Punk got reinstated. I could

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see del Rio claiming I'm the number one contender in

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the gm agreen, and it just shifts right into more

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traditional hype. I think the two point nine rating is

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going to scare Vince a little bit, especially coming off

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to two point four rating the week before. Yes, it

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was fourth of July, but I think they're gonna be

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a little scared about doing insider angles. I don't think

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it's Vince's nature to want to make insider references like this.

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I think he got talkeed into it, and I think

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now he's going to go conservative and go back to

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a more traditional formula. So no, I don't think there's

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going to be a major invasion angle. And I think

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if there is a major invasion angle with Seampunk, it'll

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happen later after he takes some time off. I genuinely

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believe he's going to take some time off after this show.

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The only out is there's an angle where he wrestles

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also at SummerSlam, but again with the rating being so low,

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this being outside of Vince's comfort zone. I could see

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I Vince had entertained that idea. I could see him

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even canceling it and saying, punk just go away for

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three to six months. Let's plan be later.

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Speaker 1: Did you know that you can enjoy commercial free versions

330
00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:08,559
of all of your favorite weight color podcasts and pw

331
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com search pw Torch and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.

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our flashbacks, and also the pw Torch daily cast lineup. Again,

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all commercial free and nice streamline listening experience. But with

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including Everything with Rich and Wade, to Fix with Todd

342
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343
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,679
news bulletins, post pay per view roundtables, and an array

344
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of other VIP exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes.

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00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,679
Check out the lineup. Go to Patreon and search PW

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00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,639
Torch and subscribe and sync it up with Spotify or

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Speaker 3: Anything else that sounds a little good?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, something else real quick About Zach Ryder, I

351
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,039
think that, uh, what are you think gonna happen with him?

352
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Because I mean I've been watching out Superstars recently, even

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on his YouTube videos, and they're kind of you can

354
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,160
tell w W's going more and more into like what

355
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he's doing on YouTube, like mentioning on Superstars about the

356
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Internet Championship why' not? And that little team that he

357
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,960
had with NeXT's a couple of weeks ago. Do you

358
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,559
think actually has plans for him to Zach Ryder?

359
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,759
Speaker 3: Not really. I mean I don't think. I don't think

360
00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:33,880
that they're going to do a ton with him. I

361
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,160
think they see him as a Santino Morella level guy,

362
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and Santino's their comedy relief right now on Raw. You

363
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,720
know if Ed Cosky, the new lead writer for SmackDown,

364
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:46,240
has a thing for Zach and says, yeah, I'd like

365
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to see I want some comedy on my show and

366
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let's bring him on a SmackDown and start featuring him.

367
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,200
I know, I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't

368
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think they see him as a main event guy. I

369
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think they see him as a goof. And I think

370
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there's also a little bit of a belief that they

371
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,119
choose who they push. Wrestlers don't choose themselves to be pushed,

372
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and when the Internet chooses somebody, I think there's some

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resistance within the WWE machinery to that. So I'm a

374
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,160
I don't think even with Super Superstars, happens in kind

375
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,519
of a vacuum, you know. I don't know that that

376
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,839
there's gonna be a big you know that that getting

377
00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:20,240
mentioned on Superstars is an indication that Physic Man's like, yeah,

378
00:18:20,319 --> 00:18:22,680
let's do something big with this guy. At the same time,

379
00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:25,839
he's persistent ther you know, people keep talking about him

380
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:28,519
and bringing signs. So I wouldn't roll it out. I

381
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,680
just haven't seen anything that indicates it's it's going to

382
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,200
be fast tracked anyway. Johnny, thanks for you a call.

383
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,799
We're gonna keep roll through college here because we've got

384
00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:36,839
so many people on hold for a Friday, and we'll

385
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:38,799
go to our next call aera code three four seven.

386
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:41,079
Thanks for holding. Please state to name and where you're from.

387
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,559
Speaker 4: Mother's Christian, New York. I have a hypothetical questions. Did

388
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,000
Terry delay is to pass away tomorrow to a heart attack?

389
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,279
Do you see an affecting debus business? Or how maystream

390
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,559
the mainstream media would do them think he's been so

391
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,200
far loose in the company and say they in the

392
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:04,000
nineteen eighties and he's always been up about in terms

393
00:19:04,039 --> 00:19:06,079
of his drug use back in the day. You see

394
00:19:06,599 --> 00:19:07,720
it forty gotta vis.

395
00:19:07,559 --> 00:19:10,079
Speaker 3: Anyway, you know, I think coming on the heels, since

396
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:11,599
it was a hypothetical question, I will give you a

397
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,799
hypothetical answer, Chris. I think if he did, if he

398
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,920
died and Randy Savage died of heart related problems, I

399
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,160
think that one two punch within a month or so

400
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,319
of one another could lead to a bit of a

401
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,960
media storm. Holkogan is a big enough name and it

402
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,799
could put a you know, a real negative view on

403
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,400
the industry. Hogan. Holk isn't in his thirties. He's not

404
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,720
even in his early forties, so there's a level of well,

405
00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:40,799
he was older, he lived, you know, he lived, you know,

406
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,799
a rough life put himself through a lot, so I

407
00:19:43,839 --> 00:19:48,880
could see possibly, you know, I could see possibly something

408
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,400
like that. It's hard, you know, it's hard to imagine

409
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:54,480
what it would take to be bigger than what happened

410
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,440
with Chris ben Wat. You know, a guy in his thirties.

411
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:59,440
He killed his wife, he killed his son, he killed himself.

412
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,640
It isn't that long after Addy Guerrero has has has

413
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,960
there been enough distance between really high profile scandals. I

414
00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:10,000
don't know, you know, people might connect the outs and

415
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,759
go Savage Hogan. I remember them. It's a big deal.

416
00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:13,599
I think it'd be a pretty big deal. I don't know,

417
00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:16,440
and it would It would reflect on WWE because WWE

418
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,400
is is pro wrestling to most people, and even if

419
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,720
Hulk cogan' is not in WWE, people who don't watch

420
00:20:22,759 --> 00:20:26,799
wrestling think think of Hulkogan and WWE as largely one

421
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,079
and the same. All right, our phone numbers here are six, four, six, seven, eight,

422
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,799
two eight. You can call in and join the other.

423
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,400
God about eight people on hold right now who we

424
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,160
haven't gotten to yet, and so you can be nine

425
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,440
in line. We should be joined soon by John Piermarini,

426
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former WWE creative team member on the Raw Team under

427
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,160
Brian Gowertz, but also worked with SmackDown the SmackDown Crew

428
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,640
at times, and he'll be joining us for some analysis

429
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,240
of things in wrestling this week. Let's go to our

430
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,759
next call, area code two eight one. Thanks for calling.

431
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:56,240
Please state your name and where you're from.

432
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,759
Speaker 6: Anyway, Jan doing them doing good?

433
00:20:59,799 --> 00:21:00,640
Speaker 3: Jay? How you doing?

434
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 6: I'm okay? Just to kind of build up on what

435
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,039
I was saying yesterday about the whole rock scene and things.

436
00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:12,920
You know, Sine is really showing his true post with

437
00:21:13,079 --> 00:21:17,119
this Rock thing. It's insane jealousy. And these guys that

438
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,279
are trying to defend johnsena like seem Punster and Jordan's

439
00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:24,880
you know, you know, they look like a old really

440
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:29,119
because they're talking all this garbage about the Rock. Rock

441
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,759
didn't have to come back. He doesn't over anything. They

442
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:35,559
weren't even in the company when Rock was there, like

443
00:21:35,599 --> 00:21:39,279
he said, blazing the trail and selling out arenas. You know,

444
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:44,960
it's a business and they're criticizing him for his passion

445
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,119
and you know, well there, I just feel that there

446
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,759
are other things they could have criticized, like Triple A's

447
00:21:50,839 --> 00:21:54,119
main eventing like eight out of ten WrestleManias. He was

448
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,119
the one taking WrestleMania paydays from I mean, what was

449
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,160
Rock really doing from them? You know that that's just

450
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,359
my opinion, and they have real issues like the insurance.

451
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,799
You know, No, Sena is always willing to stand it.

452
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,759
He'll never stand against him or stand up for the

453
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:14,880
people that he works with. Have you noticed.

454
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: That that that Sena doesn't stand up for who say

455
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:21,720
that again?

456
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,599
Speaker 7: For uh, just his fellow wrestlers.

457
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 6: Like he's in a tradition where you can say, hey,

458
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,799
you know I about some health insurance?

459
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:32,519
Speaker 3: Right, oh right, right, yeah, oh definitely. You know, John

460
00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:35,000
Cena is no different than than other people. Vincick mannis

461
00:22:35,079 --> 00:22:37,079
chosen to push to the top over the years, and

462
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,240
I think anybody who shows the type of tendency to

463
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:42,559
rock the boat, uh you know, gets pushed down a

464
00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:44,799
little bit. I mean, Jesse Ventura went that direction a

465
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:46,920
little bit and it probably hurt him and his standing

466
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,279
with Vincent Man to a certain degree, although he wasn't

467
00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:51,880
the top guy and it didn't go it didn't go

468
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,079
real far. Jim Brunzell talked about that in a torch

469
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:56,960
talk that I did with him years ago about how uh,

470
00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:58,599
you know how he had looked into that and talked

471
00:22:58,599 --> 00:23:00,279
to lawds and that type of thing. But the thing

472
00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:02,400
is is, when you're at the very top and you're

473
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,440
making millions of dollars a year, do you really want

474
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,119
to give this amount of reason to dump you and

475
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,599
go with somebody else. And that's the problem. When you

476
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,880
get to the top, you start you kind of start

477
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,680
self editing, your critical thinking about the way the promotion operates,

478
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,079
and you think, hey, I worked hard, I deserve this.

479
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,480
I'm going to get what I can get, and everybody

480
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,319
else has the same chance to work as hard as

481
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,079
I do and be as good as I am and

482
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,279
get what I have. And I'm certainly not worried. If

483
00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:30,440
you're John Cena, he's thinking, I'm not worried about health insurance.

484
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,640
I'm not worried about retirement. I'm making great money. It's

485
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,160
my job to save my money. So yeah, I mean, no,

486
00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:38,880
it's not just John Cena. The system is rigged in

487
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,000
the sense that when you're making that kind of big money,

488
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:42,599
you don't want to put it at risk. As for

489
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,440
the whole Scena Rock thing, I mean, it's the cover

490
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:47,480
story in the new edition of the People Torch Newsletter

491
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,359
issue one, two and twelve that we just put up,

492
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:53,640
and my cover story is on the latest back and

493
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,720
forth between Scene and Rock. Bruce Mitchell also wrote a column,

494
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,359
a really good column on this that's exclusive for VIP

495
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,720
members today, on the Scena and Rock back and forth.

496
00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:04,039
And I think it's not I'm not picking sides. I

497
00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:06,599
think they're both looking bad. I think they've lost sight

498
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,519
of what the goal is. I think John Cena isn't

499
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:12,920
a bad spot because he's think I think John Cena

500
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,759
knows that Rock has a thin skin, that he's sensitive

501
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:17,799
to criticism. I think there's a lot more going on

502
00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:20,079
behind the scenes than we'll ever know, and that will

503
00:24:20,079 --> 00:24:22,759
ever be said, and people can read into some of

504
00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:24,440
the things that are being said and come up with

505
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,960
their own speculation and draw their own conclusions. But there

506
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,319
are games, there's mind games going on, there's bodies that

507
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,920
are buried, they know things about each other. There, there's

508
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:35,799
so much. They've both been in the same spot, and

509
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,000
Sena is needling Rock and he knows Rock can't back out. Now,

510
00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:41,799
you know, Rock can't back out of the match, so

511
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:44,680
Scena can say almost anything he wants. And Seena's a

512
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,319
little better, not than Rock, but I think he's better

513
00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:50,519
than Rock expected him to be at at battling him

514
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:53,680
in these back and forth promos, will call them even

515
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,960
though I think they're both trying to get under under

516
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,039
each other's skin and score points with their fan bases.

517
00:24:58,279 --> 00:25:00,319
I think in their mind they're rationalizing it as this

518
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,440
is helping build up our match because there's real animosity,

519
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,680
and I think there is legitimate animosity between them at

520
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,680
this point. I think it's clear Rock posting an eleven minute,

521
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,359
you know, point by point dressing down of John Cena

522
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,240
and really I mean going after him hard and Sena

523
00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:18,559
then going after Rock cart I don't think any of

524
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:20,160
them have I mean Rock has a good point. He

525
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,440
says no one's Warren gene short since ninety two. I

526
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,680
mean that's exaggerating a little bit, but you know, he's

527
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,279
picking on things. But Seena has been self deprecating about that.

528
00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:31,359
Rock hasn't been particularly self deprecating. He's been I think

529
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,920
somewhat defensive and I think come on a little too strong,

530
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,680
a little too heavy handed, and some of his comebacks

531
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,119
where the sensi humor isn't there, and he's coming across

532
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,319
as if maybe he you know, Sina has gotten under

533
00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:44,559
his skin. Rock is right, Rock paved the way. I

534
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:46,839
don't like that term, but because I think it's used

535
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,559
by old wrestlers to hang on for too long. But

536
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,200
there's some truth to it, and that Rock did work

537
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,359
full time on the road for five plus years and

538
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,160
John Cena's worked on the road for longer than that.

539
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,319
But had John Cena gotten the same movie offers that

540
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,839
Rock has gotten, Sena would be gone too, you know.

541
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,359
I mean, Sena has left full time on the road

542
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,440
for WWE to shoot movies, and he didn't leave entirely,

543
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:10,720
but that's because the movies he was doing weren't paying

544
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:12,920
millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars like

545
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:16,039
Rocks were. So I mean, if I'm grading this on

546
00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:19,039
debate points, Rock is winning. But if I'm grading it

547
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:21,160
on who's getting under whose skin and who's showing more

548
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,680
defensive tendencies, well Rock is losing. Rock is coming across

549
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,160
as more defensive. And I've had enough of the gay stuff,

550
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,119
you know, I mean, Rock insinuating making jokes about John Cena,

551
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,279
you know, having sex with guys in college, you know,

552
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,920
oral sex with guys in college as part of his

553
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:37,839
eleven minute rant, you know, and then Sena coming back

554
00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:39,759
and going, oh, I wonder if Glad's gonna come after Rock,

555
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,319
which I don't think it made either of them look

556
00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:44,759
good because it made it look like Sena wasn't really regretful.

557
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,359
He thinks it should all be fair game. And it's like,

558
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,160
you know, the fourth grader in classic goals, but teacher,

559
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,440
he did it first, or he did it too, and

560
00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:54,160
as if that means you're not guilty. So the whole thing,

561
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,119
I think it's just been unbecoming of their stature for

562
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,240
both of them. I think again, it's interesting for me.

563
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:00,920
I love it gives me something to write about. It

564
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,880
gives us something to talk about. But they should be

565
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,839
talking about wanting to beat each other in the ring,

566
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,279
not undercutting each other's weak points that have nothing to

567
00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:10,680
do with what they're doing there. But anyway, Bruce Mitchell's

568
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,200
got a great column on this. I go in more

569
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,480
depth on it and pull out the highlight quotes in

570
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,759
case you didn't see the video and analyze it myself

571
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,200
in this week's PW Torch newsletter. And as I said,

572
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,319
we'll have a special if you're not a VIP member yet,

573
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:22,839
it's great time to check it out. Go to PW

574
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,720
Torch dot com at the top of the main listening.

575
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,279
We'll have a special offer and you can immediately download

576
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:29,559
the PDF copy or read text versions on the VIP

577
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,400
website of all this coverage of scene of rock. Let's

578
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,759
go to our next call and it is area code

579
00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:36,680
five one six. Thanks for holding. Please state your name

580
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,319
and where you're from.

581
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, Highway. This is AJ from Long Island.

582
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: Hey J good ear for you me. What's going on?

583
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 7: Good?

584
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,319
Speaker 2: How's it going on? I just want to comment a

585
00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:46,000
little bit on TNA.

586
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 6: Last night.

587
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 2: I just had a couple of bullet points. So the

588
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,680
one thing I think, I think TNA should be commended,

589
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:55,440
you know, for signing Austin Are's whereas I mean, wwe

590
00:27:55,519 --> 00:27:58,359
rejected him from tough Enough. Yeah, you know, I I

591
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,960
know a lot of people give TN a lot of

592
00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:02,720
our time for their roster and signings, but I think,

593
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:05,279
you know, he is definitely a guy that's charismatic. He

594
00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:08,599
looks like he can be in different divisions. The one

595
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:11,279
problem I had with him on impact, and this seems

596
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,160
to be a growing trend with TNA, is the Impact

597
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,640
show after a pay per view always seems to be lagging.

598
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,440
I don't know if because they tape it the night

599
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:21,000
after or something like that, but Austin area is he

600
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:23,920
should have had a video Titan tron ready when he

601
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:24,279
came out.

602
00:28:24,319 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 7: It has just been a division logo.

603
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: TA needs to do a better job. And this is

604
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:31,440
one of my other points focusing on their stars, things

605
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,960
like better entrance music, you know, good Titan trons, and

606
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,440
one other thing I noticed that I was looking at

607
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,000
both sites there. I think one of the things that

608
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:41,440
can really improve TNA is if they trend their roster.

609
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,920
I think they have too many people on guys that

610
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,240
are kind of deadweight, guys like Devon Pope, Shannon Moore,

611
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:50,640
Scott Steiner and Kia Robbie, these guys that I think

612
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,880
just don't connect and they throw them in there then

613
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,559
they take them out. And looking at ww at RAW,

614
00:28:56,599 --> 00:28:58,839
they have forty four people listed on their roster base,

615
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:02,319
TNA has sixty two people. I understand they have explosion,

616
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:04,680
they have different stuff, but I think they do a

617
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,400
poor job focusing on stars, and it seems like the

618
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,279
flow of the show. It almost seems like they have

619
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:11,880
different producers for every segment. It doesn't seem like the

620
00:29:12,119 --> 00:29:14,440
show flows through. And I really wanted last Night show

621
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,240
to be good, you know, after seeing the reports and

622
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,960
things like that, but it just seems like there's a discourse.

623
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,799
I was hoping after the X Division pay per view

624
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,279
and talk to them sounding more guys, that there would

625
00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:27,200
be a greater focus on it, but I'm just not

626
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,039
sure where they are for that. I really do think

627
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:30,799
that though, if they trim their roster a little bit

628
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,279
and just focus on guys, having guys connecting with the audience,

629
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:37,920
like Crimson, like the Time Team Division, I think it

630
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,880
would be a better thing than you know, you get

631
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,079
guys that are thrown into programs and then I don't know,

632
00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:43,720
if it doesn't get the greatest reaction in the world,

633
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:46,000
then they automatically take them out. I mean, looking from

634
00:29:46,079 --> 00:29:48,920
last year, guys like Jay Lethal, Robbie, these were guys

635
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,880
that were pushed heavily on TV, given a lot of

636
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,799
TV time, and then all of a sudden they know

637
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:55,000
where to be heard of almost And I think that's

638
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:58,400
one of the discourses with the with the audience, as

639
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,799
far as the as far as with TNA, and again

640
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,119
it all leads to the main structure of Sure you

641
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,519
know Vince Rusoni spear moved. The booking community needs to

642
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:07,960
be overhauled for the most part, but I think there

643
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,640
are little changes that they can make that can really

644
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,880
improve the quality of the show that I think that

645
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,000
they're just missing for some odd reason though, and I'm

646
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,279
not sure why that's the case.

647
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 8: Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.

648
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:25,880
Will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress

649
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,559
Paradise at Peterbo Torch VIP as we mask on the

650
00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:32,240
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the

651
00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:35,240
great matches and shows from around the world, be it

652
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,720
the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place

653
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,480
for wrestlings past and the paradise too, and we've done

654
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:45,599
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series

655
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:49,599
celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and our

656
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,960
Eye was there when shows where our guests will join

657
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,359
me to talk about a classic bout that they were

658
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:57,720
in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect

659
00:30:57,799 --> 00:31:00,720
lots of it at the Pro wrest Paradise Detailed P

660
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:04,480
two Torch VIP subscription. Information on a list of all

661
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:08,359
the VIP benefits is available at pterbrew Torch vip info

662
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,359
dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with

663
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:16,519
popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you

664
00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:20,319
can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site.

665
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:26,039
Speaker 3: See you in the Paradise, Yeah, No, I like last

666
00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:27,839
night show a little better than you did, probably, but

667
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,720
I agree with with a lot of your criticism, and

668
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:32,480
I think in the macro and the big picture, you know,

669
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,599
there's obviously issues that TNA needs to work on. I

670
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,680
thought Austin Arey's coming out my first thought, and I

671
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,160
wrote it in my blog last another my actually report

672
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,839
on impact that I did live during the show. If

673
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,880
you're going to build the part of the X Division revival,

674
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,279
which Bruce Pritchard said in an interview, that they're going,

675
00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:49,440
you know that they're going to do, They're going to

676
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:51,400
give it a renewed push coming out of Destination X

677
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:54,240
and Aris is one of your big signs. You needed

678
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,680
to do more to introduce them, you know, or you

679
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,000
didn't need to, but it would have been great if

680
00:31:57,039 --> 00:31:58,599
they did, you know, to just throw them out there

681
00:31:58,759 --> 00:32:01,519
and to have an even Stephens with Shannon Moore, who

682
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,920
is you know, a virtual jobber in that company. That

683
00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:07,599
doesn't make Austin Arey seem like the new hot thing.

684
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:11,279
And that's one thing that teenage just isn't particularly disciplined about,

685
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,759
is Okay, if we're gonna do this, let's go all

686
00:32:13,799 --> 00:32:15,440
the way and do it right. And they kind of

687
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,720
went halfway. There's good ideas, and we want to executed.

688
00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:20,839
Austin airis. There's good things that they did with them

689
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,440
last night, and and part of Austin ares is just good.

690
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,400
I mean, he just comes across as a guy that

691
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,759
has that that inherent smugness and arrogance about him. And

692
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:30,799
I liked Alex Shelley the way he played off of him.

693
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,680
I even liked the way Shannon Moore broke down how

694
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,759
he had to cheat to win because I was in control.

695
00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:37,920
But again, there's so many things about the exhivision that

696
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,640
need to be done, and one of them is isolate

697
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,160
them from the heavyweights for you know, for a long time.

698
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,720
Go ahead and you're dying to get in there.

699
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: And just the thing the comments on the on that week, Yeah,

700
00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:48,799
it almost seems like they were teasing areas you know,

701
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,240
because he was getting cheers from the crowd, and if

702
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,039
they want to do a full fledge heir heel turn,

703
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:55,039
which it looks like they wanted, they should have had

704
00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:58,279
him attack Shelley to really, you know, get the get

705
00:32:58,279 --> 00:33:00,599
the fans to boom because you know that they shared

706
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,680
him from having a great match before of those that

707
00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:05,240
saw it. Another thing I noticed about teenage roster is that,

708
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,279
and I know way you've written about the flut, they

709
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:09,599
don't have a ton of main event talent guys, but

710
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,319
they have a lot of mid card, upper mid card guys.

711
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:16,079
It seems like the TV title would be so well used,

712
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:18,279
and they put so much focus on the impact the

713
00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:21,079
program itself. If you had weekend and week out, it

714
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:22,599
doesn't even have to be the main event. But if

715
00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:25,519
you have that title defended on a weekly basis with

716
00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:28,079
a credible guy, even someone like Van Dam or someone

717
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,200
Joe or somebody just to give that belt will get

718
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,680
so much more credibility and it would make the show

719
00:33:34,759 --> 00:33:36,920
so much more compelling. I mean, even though the UFC

720
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,680
is obviously real fighting, it's proof in the numbers when

721
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,400
they have cards and pay per views with non title

722
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,039
bouts compared to title bouts, and it's the same thing

723
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:47,160
with wrestling shows. I would imagine if you have a

724
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,920
title on the line, even if it's scripted, even if

725
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,720
it's pre taped, people will tune in because there's a

726
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:53,799
title on the line.

727
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's been diminishing returns AJ on the

728
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:58,440
value of title matches because there's been too many of them.

729
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,279
There's been too many title changes and too ops. They

730
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:02,920
just throw them on TV and don't build them up.

731
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,880
But I agree, well, first of all, you make somebody

732
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,800
a main eventor by giving them a main event push

733
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,079
and putting them in main event matches. And I think

734
00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:14,280
one of the defeated statitudes that TNA has had is

735
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,840
we can't create main eventors. And you know, they did

736
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,480
it with Samo Joe to an extent, They've done it

737
00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:20,119
with AJ Styles to an extent. They're trying to do

738
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,239
it Crimson. There's a few other examples, but almost everybody

739
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,599
else that they've ever pushed in a main event spot

740
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,679
was on Nitro or Raw in the early two thousands

741
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,719
or nineteen nineties. And there's this inferiority complex or in incompetence,

742
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,320
or a combination of both that they don't understand in

743
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,400
the time that that you know, since Kurt Angle's been

744
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,000
away from WWE, they've WWE has created a bunch more

745
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:46,280
stars into the vast majority of wrestling fans. Those are

746
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,920
the main eventors of pro wrestling today, Not Scott stein Er,

747
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,559
not Jeff Jarrett, not a lot of the people that

748
00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:53,480
TNA keeps pushing. They can make Brutus Magnus a main

749
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:56,119
event star in six months if they decide to do it.

750
00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:58,000
Will he be a successful main eventor and move the

751
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,960
needle on the ratings and buy rates? Well, who knows.

752
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,840
I mean, that's that's a whole other layer. But you

753
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,239
can take people who are mid carters and by definition

754
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,880
turn them into main eventors, and the way to do

755
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,920
that is put them in main events and give them

756
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,719
that main event push. They need to do the same

757
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,199
thing with Austin Ais. I agree about trimming the roster.

758
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,880
I think one of the in this kind of parallels

759
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,880
an article in the PW Torch newsletter that I put

760
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,559
out earlier this week in my Future editorial on revamping SmackDown,

761
00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:27,320
and I suggested that there's a weight division that is

762
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,280
exclusive to SmackDown and that the heavy move over to

763
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,000
raw you need. I think there would be value in

764
00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:36,239
separating the two the X Division and the heavyweights, if

765
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:38,920
only because I don't trust T and A's discipline to

766
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,719
not treat Shannon more as a job or one week

767
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,719
and then two weeks later have him fight even Steven

768
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:46,559
with a new hot acquisition Austin Aires, which defines Austin

769
00:35:46,559 --> 00:35:49,000
ares down as at best barely better than a job

770
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:50,679
or he had to cheat to win to be the

771
00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:52,960
guy who's basically a job or you just can't do that.

772
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:58,400
Usc went have Jose Aldo on a card, get beat

773
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,199
up by Roy Nelson and then expect to have line

774
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,760
of pay per view with him a month or two later.

775
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,719
That's just that's just not good business. So anyway, that

776
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,719
will that'll wrap up my comment on that. I hear

777
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,880
John Prumerin has joined us. John, how you doing good?

778
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:11,159
Speaker 2: Wait?

779
00:36:11,159 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 9: How you doing man?

780
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:14,199
Speaker 3: Very good? Good Debby On the show, we've been talking

781
00:36:14,199 --> 00:36:16,760
about a variety of things, the punk scene of stuff.

782
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,679
Christian New York asked us what if Ulkogan died of

783
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,519
heart failure with the wrestling with w W take to blame,

784
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,559
and we talked about the Rock Sina War of Words,

785
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:27,639
and also last night's T and A impact. I want

786
00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:29,079
to throw a couple questions at you, and then we'll

787
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:32,239
get back to the phone lines. John, And we're down

788
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,679
about thirty minutes, and we got looks like about eight

789
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,239
or nine people on hold with questions. But real quick,

790
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:40,840
what's your first reaction to the two point nine rating

791
00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:45,360
on RON Monday, A dreadfully alarmingly low rating for what,

792
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,039
at least the internet community deemed one of the hottest

793
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:49,920
angles in a long time.

794
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,639
Speaker 9: Wow, I didn't even hear that at two point nine. Huh, yep,

795
00:36:54,119 --> 00:36:59,599
that's well. I mean, I guess it was hot until

796
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:02,719
people found out that it was a work.

797
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:03,199
Speaker 3: I guess.

798
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 7: I don't know.

799
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 9: That's that's surprising because I would I was actually, for

800
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,920
the first time pretty excited to see what they were

801
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,039
going to do with punk. But I guess just once

802
00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:16,079
people found out, you know, and but you know, wait,

803
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:18,639
do you know this better? It seemed like the general

804
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,840
mainstream media that did pick up on it felt like

805
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,880
it was a shoot. So I feel like it was

806
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,800
shreated that way. So it's kind of a shock. I

807
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,800
don't I don't really have an opinion as to why

808
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:32,760
people didn't do him.

809
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that the mainstream attention that was

810
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,639
given to it's probably a little bit overrated. I thought

811
00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:40,360
the same thing with Jeff Jarrett was on ESPN shows

812
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,639
and they chow clips of it, and I was just like,

813
00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:46,480
you know, nothing on ESPN move does any ratings other

814
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:49,679
than you know, major League Baseball and obviously the NFL

815
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,079
and Sports Center if you're not there. I mean, it's

816
00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:55,440
not nothing, but it's barely something. And you know, I

817
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,239
think this is kind of an opportunity to learn a lesson.

818
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,960
It's it's a it's a moment to reflect on whether

819
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,920
you and I and the people who listen to the

820
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,920
show and call this show, and maybe even some of

821
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,840
the senior not senior as in retirement age, but you

822
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,159
know above WWE's younger target demographic who are in the

823
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:18,280
mainstream media, who profascinated by that, is that really? Is

824
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,159
that really the market that WWE is going to poperating with?

825
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:25,800
You know? Or because when I was fourteen, Sampung's promo

826
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,320
wouldn't have done anything for me. I went to know

827
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,280
what he was talking about. It would have been over

828
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,519
my head. There were too many nuances, too many insider references.

829
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:34,480
I would rather see John Cena, you know, beat up

830
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,119
Alberto de Rio than have some nuanced things. John Cena

831
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,960
doesn't dislike Sampung, but he thinks he's a punk and

832
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,840
he shouldn't have said that. And vinsic Man comes out,

833
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,559
and I don't know who I'm supposed to cheer for boo,

834
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:46,440
and they're all they're all saying bad things about each

835
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,360
other and about the WWE brand, and I just think

836
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,039
some people's heads were spinning. And I'm just wondering if

837
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:55,960
this doesn't show that what you and I find a break,

838
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:58,360
you know, the holy the holy crap moments, a break

839
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,079
from the norm, maybe has a more limited audience. Even

840
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:06,079
when it's pretty well done. Then it is necessary to

841
00:39:06,119 --> 00:39:07,599
move the needle, and in fact, there might be a

842
00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:09,800
little bit of a turn off factor. And maybe it's

843
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,840
a lesson that you just just get back to getting

844
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,800
heels over who the average mainstream massive audience doesn't like,

845
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,159
and then have your babyface get presented as a good guy,

846
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,519
as a hero, not being cut down by a heel,

847
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,679
not making people think maybe I shouldn't be cheering this

848
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:26,679
guy because he's a kiss ask de vincic Man. Just

849
00:39:26,679 --> 00:39:28,840
get back to the heroes. Or heroes villains are villains

850
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:30,840
and go out there and cut promos and have good

851
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,360
matches and you know, get back to the one, the

852
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,480
basics of one on one. Maybe that's what's needed, more

853
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:39,119
so than some semi shoot comments that I think might

854
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:40,880
fly over the head of a lot, if not the

855
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,559
majority of fans, even if it gets the small flife

856
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,559
who have seen it all before excited because it's not

857
00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:47,280
familiar to them.

858
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, you can bring up a great point

859
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,599
because I feel like something like this would have worked

860
00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:57,000
maybe two years ago, three years ago when they were

861
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,280
starting to lose that that older eighteen an over audience

862
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:05,960
that went to the UFC, because I think that when

863
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,440
you watch UFC, I mean it was just the last

864
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:12,679
free card that they had Check Congo versus Pat Barry.

865
00:40:13,039 --> 00:40:15,599
I mean, I don't know if you watch that fight,

866
00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:21,239
but Pat Berry essentially knocked out Check Congo, who for

867
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,880
some reason survived and looked like he was defending himself,

868
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,519
got up and out of nowhere after he was dropped

869
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:33,480
two more times dropped Pat Barry. Now that is a

870
00:40:33,559 --> 00:40:37,519
holy crap moment. That that's real. And I think when

871
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:40,360
you get people like us that can watch UFC and

872
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,559
at any second see something like that and go, my

873
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:46,079
money's going there, or I'll watch this. I think that

874
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:50,480
it's a little too late to your point. Go okay,

875
00:40:50,639 --> 00:40:54,880
our audience right now are twelve to fifteen, and all

876
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,920
of what Ciampunk just said went over their head. And

877
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,000
you're right, they do want to just see massive villain

878
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,360
gain power and see their hero overcome the villain. And yeah,

879
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,519
maybe it's just too late. Maybe that the people that

880
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,719
saw that, I think that they were intrigued by going,

881
00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:15,840
oh my gosh, see them funk said what and then

882
00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:18,480
found out that it was a work and went okay,

883
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,480
you know, not interested, or to take it a step further.

884
00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:26,519
And we talked about this after the spoilers came out

885
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,360
the week after. Took a lot of the a lot

886
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,400
of the wind out of the sales. Wait in the

887
00:41:31,519 --> 00:41:35,199
sense that you kind of you kind of stripped it

888
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,239
of everything when you had Vincentmann come out with John

889
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,840
Cena turn it into a complete work reinstatum say the

890
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,960
matches on. I think people at that point went all right,

891
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:48,800
we know what's going to happen now, and until Wue

892
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,320
starts to do something different, if they do shock people

893
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,400
at Money in the Bank and you do have c

894
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:57,679
them Funk win the title and walk without a contract.

895
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,360
I think now you've got people going, wait, I wasn't

896
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,639
expecting that. Maybe I need to start two because they're

897
00:42:02,679 --> 00:42:07,280
doing something different. If people read the spoilers or hear

898
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,480
about what happens at Money in the Bank, it's John

899
00:42:09,519 --> 00:42:13,639
Cena over with a little help from Rock or somebody else.

900
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,039
I think people are just gonna go not. That's why I'm.

901
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,519
Speaker 3: Done with it. I think one of the fatal flaws

902
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:24,239
with semi shoots, pseudo shoots, Halsh shoots. You know that

903
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,039
those types of angles is you set and I talked

904
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:29,920
about this two weeks ago after it first happened. You

905
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:34,280
set expectations high among fans who are looking for in

906
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,840
craving that feeling that they had when they were first

907
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,440
fans that maybe this was real and maybe it wasn't.

908
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,760
But they become so discerning, so able to figure out

909
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,360
that none of it's real, that when something seems like

910
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,119
maybe it was real, especially when seampunk articulates their own

911
00:42:49,159 --> 00:42:52,199
frustration with maybe outgrowing the product a little bit, or

912
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,760
feeling like it's not aimed at them like it once was,

913
00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:58,519
or who knows what, but they are punk articulates some

914
00:42:58,559 --> 00:43:01,960
of their own frustrations with the product. Uh them, fans,

915
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:04,719
I think, get their hopes of going finally somebody speaking out.

916
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,239
But and I feel like I was here on you know,

917
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,079
we were here on like that week to go wait

918
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:11,639
a second, everybody calmed down. Nothing there that was said

919
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,159
wasn't calculated. Nothing there that was said violently went after

920
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:17,800
any sacred cows. It was designed to look like it did,

921
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,360
but it didn't. It was a shoot. I mean, it

922
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,800
was a work designed to look like a shoot. And

923
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,960
Vincient Mann is not upset. John Lorenidis is not upset,

924
00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:29,280
Triple Aahs and Stephanie McMahon are not upset. So let's

925
00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:32,320
enjoy it in that context. But I think what happened

926
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,559
is a lot of people are upset because they wanted

927
00:43:35,559 --> 00:43:36,920
to believe it was a shoot. And I think so

928
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:38,960
one of the dangers of going down that road and

929
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,159
getting people excited and thinking this is a hot angle

930
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,119
or it's a hot situation because it's not an angle

931
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,000
and something was said that wasn't supposed to be said,

932
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,599
and punks in trouble and want to see what's next.

933
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,039
The expectations get set way too high, and the fact

934
00:43:51,079 --> 00:43:53,639
is is there's an inevitable letdown. I think they even

935
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,119
ran into that last last year with a nexus when

936
00:43:56,159 --> 00:43:58,519
there was that tearing down the whole rock set thing

937
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:00,880
and they beat up Sena. There were people going that

938
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,480
was different, maybe something was real. I don't and there

939
00:44:03,519 --> 00:44:05,920
just wasn't the follow up on it. So again, that's

940
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,039
where I think it's nice to hotshot and get people excited,

941
00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:10,840
but if you don't have a follow up, or if

942
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,840
the follow up is incongruent with why people are excited

943
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,880
in the first place, there's no way to follow up

944
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,599
punk shooting. If you're trying to make it seem like

945
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:20,800
he really was shooting, you can follow that up with

946
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,280
a video package highlighting all the controversial things he said.

947
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,719
You know that that co ops it, that makes it

948
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,280
part of the show. So that's why I'm just kind

949
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,079
of anti holy crap moments in that in the shoot Realm,

950
00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:32,639
because there's just no way to follow up on it

951
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:34,599
and keep the people who you're targeting with the shoot

952
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:38,039
comments happy because they're inevitably going to be let down

953
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:40,360
when it just gets co opted into the endo the storyline.

954
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, I remember having a discussion with creative when we

955
00:44:44,639 --> 00:44:48,000
did that. It was right after it was the week

956
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:52,760
after Nexus tore up the set, and we were sitting

957
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,480
there talking about and pretty much laying everything out. And

958
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,960
I remember sitting there going, the second second you give

959
00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:05,360
these guys contracts, so and I remember it was just

960
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:09,239
they fought and they thought, and Vince wanted it and

961
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,719
Brian wanted it, and I just remember thinking, that's it.

962
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,400
You take away for everything that this group is the

963
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:20,840
second you give them contracts, and they got contracts. And

964
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,119
I can't remember specifics of exactly what happened after.

965
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:25,079
Speaker 1: But.

966
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 9: The whole character and story was stripped the second you

967
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,559
did and the second that you get people excited and go, wow,

968
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:40,119
what was that? And then you immediately go, don't worry,

969
00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:42,800
it's part of the show. You take away from it

970
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:48,519
because WWE has learned not to do exactly what's expected.

971
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,920
And I think that the problem with WWE right now,

972
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,400
to kind of backtrack a little bit, and I've used

973
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,599
this analogy before, is they're a lot like a cell

974
00:45:56,639 --> 00:45:59,920
phone company in the sense that they don't want to

975
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:03,440
target audience that they have. They don't care about making

976
00:46:03,639 --> 00:46:07,400
you as a customer happy, they care about going, oh, well,

977
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,599
we've got fifteen through through eighteen, Well, why don't we

978
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:13,800
try to get eighteen through thirty four? And they did

979
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,760
that when they had the older audience, they said, we

980
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,719
want the kids, or we want the females, or you know,

981
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,039
we want the people who don't watch wrestling. So they

982
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:24,039
did all these things so they lose everyone else, and

983
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:26,920
then they start going back and going, oh, well, we

984
00:46:27,039 --> 00:46:29,960
lost the eighteen to thirty four, so let's give eighteen

985
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,639
to thirty four something. But now that you've drawn in

986
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,400
all these kids, these kids are going, I don't, John Lerenitis,

987
00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:41,000
what is that you know? So I think that they

988
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:43,719
need to just start concentrating and going on. With the

989
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,719
cell phone companies, you're locked in. You got a contract,

990
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,480
you want to leave, sure, pay us, you can leave.

991
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,280
But with WWE you have the option of changing the

992
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,039
channel anytime you want. And the second that they go,

993
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,559
hey Wade, John, you're watching, and we don't target to

994
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:02,960
you anymore. We target to the little Jimmy's out there. Well,

995
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,360
the little Jimmies that aren't watching. They're not watching, and

996
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,679
now I'm not watching because now you're not giving me

997
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,679
what I want anymore. So I'm gonna turn the channel

998
00:47:11,679 --> 00:47:14,719
and maybe TNA is or maybe UFC is, or maybe

999
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,239
pond Stars is or whatever the case may be. But

1000
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:20,079
they just need to start getting focused and saying, where

1001
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:22,119
are we going, who do we want to target, and

1002
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:25,280
let's build from there. And my opinion is they're at

1003
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,039
a point where they're not going to steal the older

1004
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:30,960
audience from UFC. Their money is going to UFC. They

1005
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,880
need to say, let's start over. Let's build a whole

1006
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,639
new crop of fans, these twelve year olds and younger

1007
00:47:36,679 --> 00:47:39,559
and up to you know, sixteen, and let's hook these

1008
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:42,559
people and give them the stories that they want and

1009
00:47:42,679 --> 00:47:44,920
keep them here for the next ten to twenty years.

1010
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: You know, that last segment you're just listening to and

1011
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,000
the next one that you're waiting to listen to, those

1012
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:53,519
can be one second apart. With the VIP membership, you

1013
00:47:53,519 --> 00:47:56,559
can unlock our commercial free versions of our shows. Pw

1014
00:47:56,599 --> 00:47:59,199
torch dot com slash go vip tells you how to

1015
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,880
do it. That's p w torch dot com. Slash Go

1016
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:05,960
VIP options exist within the Apple podcast app using your

1017
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,239
Apple account through Patreon, which, by the way, you can

1018
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,000
sync up with Spotify or just about any iOS or

1019
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,360
Android app. With a full VIP membership, you can customize

1020
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,760
the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes.

1021
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,840
Go to pw torch dot com slash go vip for

1022
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,639
full details on all the options to listen commercial free

1023
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,960
and with upper tier options unlock our VIP exclusive podcast

1024
00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:29,400
run throughout the week every week.

1025
00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 3: And I think too on a that's a macro approach

1026
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,840
and not a micro approach. I would say stop, get

1027
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,400
over your inferiority complex about being scripted. Get over it

1028
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:43,440
your scripted entertainment, and anytime you start trying to convince

1029
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,960
people that you're real, you lose your stride. You get

1030
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,280
away from what makes pro wrestling what it needs to

1031
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,559
be in order to succeed. Have a world that you

1032
00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:54,960
create from the opening credits to the closing credits, that

1033
00:48:55,039 --> 00:48:58,920
says credible as possible, that comes with creative flexibility and

1034
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,880
the creative license of being scripted. Simulated fights, but don't

1035
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:06,559
pretend something is more real in order to try to

1036
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:08,199
spark a rating, because there's no way to follow up

1037
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:09,719
on it, and then you're left with all the fake

1038
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,920
stuff afterwards. You're not usc you're not even quote reality television.

1039
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,719
Just be exciting, dramatic hero versus villain, simulated combat and

1040
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,000
embrace it and don't stray from it, but have an

1041
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,360
internal logic that makes sense. Build up heroes where there's

1042
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,000
a reason not to like him. And when you have

1043
00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:31,159
a babyface hero like John Cena, embrace what's good about

1044
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,880
him and promote it, and don't confuse your audience by

1045
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,840
having somebody come out there and make those who like

1046
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,639
John Cena feel like fools. And I think that's what

1047
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,039
Sampunk has done. If we look at demographics, then we'll

1048
00:49:41,039 --> 00:49:43,079
skip July fourth, because that was an anomaly because of

1049
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:47,199
the holiday. But two weeks ago, among among males twelve

1050
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,800
to seventeen, the rating drop from a two point sixty

1051
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,360
five rating to a one point eight three rating, the

1052
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,320
twenty five percent drop from two weeks ago when Sam

1053
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,760
Bunk gave us promo you go back even further back

1054
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,800
on the three hour on June thirteenth, one month earlier,

1055
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,679
it was a two point nine to nine rating. They

1056
00:50:04,679 --> 00:50:08,719
lost one third of their teenage male viewers in compared

1057
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,599
to one month ago, and the majority of that drop,

1058
00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:15,280
the vast majority was from the Ciampunk promo show to

1059
00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:18,280
compared to the one that was this Monday. Adults went

1060
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,199
down too because the rating was so bad, but it

1061
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,280
wasn't as dramatic. Adults eighteen to thirty four, the rating

1062
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,400
went from one point five too down to one point

1063
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,199
three six. Among men eighteen to forty nine, it went

1064
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:29,760
down from a two point zero six to a one

1065
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,000
point nine to two. Those aren't big drops, and I

1066
00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:34,880
think that drop is attributable to the Home Run Derby

1067
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,519
on ESPN. The drop that you can't attribute to the

1068
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:41,000
Home Run Derby because it's too large and it's wwb's

1069
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,880
target PG demo is boys twelve to seventeen, and that

1070
00:50:45,159 --> 00:50:48,199
is a big drop, and I think they confused them.

1071
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,599
I think that some of them liked John Cena and

1072
00:50:51,639 --> 00:50:53,880
some of them were more susceptible to thinking what cmpunk

1073
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,079
did was real. So I think the twelve to fifteen

1074
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:58,360
year olds you made them feel bad like John Cena

1075
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,920
is an idiot there dork for liking because you let

1076
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,840
see them Punk go there. In the sixteen to nineteen

1077
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,360
year olds, sixteen to seventeen year olds who don't like

1078
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,239
John Cena, they thought what Punk said might be real,

1079
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,800
and now they feel betrayed. Because they were presented with

1080
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,559
something that looked like a shoot and it wasn't, and

1081
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:16,239
so again I just think he gets dangerous. Embrace who

1082
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,559
you are is pro wrestling. Promote the hell out of

1083
00:51:18,599 --> 00:51:21,159
the heels, and make sure they're bad people, and promote

1084
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:22,960
the hell out of the heroes, and build them up

1085
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,599
and protect them, and don't let you know your heels

1086
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,880
start poking and prodding and pointing out their weak points.

1087
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,039
And then just tell good stories about simulated combat and

1088
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:32,800
tell a good story in the ring. That's what I

1089
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,039
would do, And I'd even not worry so much about

1090
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:37,159
the demographics because I don't think older people want to

1091
00:51:37,159 --> 00:51:39,480
see a bad story or fake shoots. I think older

1092
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,679
people want to see a good wrestling story told. And

1093
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,239
as a kid, I became a fan at age nine

1094
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,559
for a product that my great grandmother loved and that

1095
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,840
people my parents' age loved, And so I don't think

1096
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,079
you need to necessarily cater to kids because I think

1097
00:51:53,079 --> 00:51:55,159
they'll rebel against that and go to USC. I think

1098
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:56,920
just promote a good pro wrestling product, and I think

1099
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,000
kids will naturally be attracted to it.

1100
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, I don't want you need you to

1101
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,360
think that I'm telling you to go, you know, put

1102
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,840
cartoon characters and stuff on there. I just think that

1103
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,760
you need to you need to choose your audience, and

1104
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,079
you need to focus on what stories to tell based

1105
00:52:14,159 --> 00:52:17,119
on that audience. And I think, you know, to the

1106
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:21,440
point that I said, the younger demographic left because that

1107
00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:24,639
wasn't a story that appealed to them. And I think

1108
00:52:24,679 --> 00:52:29,440
that the older audience left because they said, all right,

1109
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,360
it's not a shoot, so I'm not that interested in.

1110
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 3: It, or you know what, John, I'd even contrast that,

1111
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:38,400
I'd say they're trying to fool me with another shoot.

1112
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:40,880
And I know wrestling's fake. Quit trying to pretend it's real.

1113
00:52:41,119 --> 00:52:43,199
I know it's not real. Just let me enjoy the

1114
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,079
story like I enjoy Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad

1115
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,480
or CSI I know it's not real. Quit trying to

1116
00:52:49,519 --> 00:52:51,719
insult me by pretending you're going to be real. If

1117
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,000
you're pro wrestling, you're not going to be real. And

1118
00:52:54,039 --> 00:52:55,880
if there's a real moment, it will have nothing to

1119
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,800
do with the following week, because if there is a

1120
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,000
real moment, that guy won't be on TV the next week,

1121
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:02,119
and then we'll get back to telling stories. I don't

1122
00:53:02,119 --> 00:53:04,440
think thirty five year olds want real I think they

1123
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,719
want to be entertained with a really well written show

1124
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,480
with characters that they get absorbed in watching the fact

1125
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:11,840
that it's not real means nothing to me when I

1126
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,960
watch a great a great scripted drama, a drama or comedy.

1127
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 9: Absolutely because people at this point understand that it's not

1128
00:53:18,199 --> 00:53:21,079
real and that's the part that they like about it.

1129
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:24,480
But they also don't want the realism in there. The

1130
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:27,679
funny thing about WWE is, you know, they're they're a

1131
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:30,039
little confused themselves because they want to sit here and

1132
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:32,639
go we are entertainment, We are not wrestling. We are

1133
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,559
like every other television show on TV. Compare us to CSI,

1134
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:39,199
compare us to those shows. But then the second that

1135
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,960
you want to say, you guys have writers or you

1136
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,400
know things are scripted, or what happens that no, no, no, no, no,

1137
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:46,880
you know, and then they back off from it. So

1138
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,400
you got to pick one. Do you want to put

1139
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,760
the facade out there that this is semi real you

1140
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,280
never know what's going to happen, or do you want

1141
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,440
to say we are SNL. SNL doesn't go out there

1142
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,760
and go I didn't know that I was gonna tell

1143
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,480
that joke, you know, I mean, pick one, pick one

1144
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:06,280
or the other, and and and and go with it. Yeah,

1145
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,199
I'll not just do an a MPM here way, so

1146
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:09,000
Mike get loud.

1147
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:14,159
Speaker 3: Oh okay, and and uh, you know, just from opening

1148
00:54:14,199 --> 00:54:17,280
credits to closing credits, just have an internal logic that's consistent.

1149
00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:18,960
You know, you can say whatever you want on the

1150
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,960
dot com, you can say whatever you want when you're

1151
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,920
being interviewed on ESPN or with some local newspaper. But

1152
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,039
from the opening to closing credits, just tell me a

1153
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:29,639
good story with characters I care about. Follow usas network motto,

1154
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,000
where characters matter, you know, this is where the care

1155
00:54:32,119 --> 00:54:35,760
and and make me again, make the heroes admirable, make

1156
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,800
the villains despicable, and then have them have an entertaining

1157
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,960
simulated combat fight in the ring like a fight scene

1158
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,880
in a movie, like a Bruce Willis movie or whatever.

1159
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:44,800
You know, That's what I'm gonna All Right, we got

1160
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,280
lot of people in hol John, Let's let's go ahead and

1161
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,400
shift the phone calls. Can you stick around after the

1162
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,960
bottom of the hour for some more phone calls? Sure? Okay, great,

1163
00:54:52,039 --> 00:54:54,920
So if anybody who last sticking around. We will try

1164
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,880
to get We'll try to get to you. Let's uh,

1165
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,639
let's see, uh eight one seven. You've been on hold

1166
00:54:59,679 --> 00:55:02,039
for about fifty minutes, so we definitely want to get

1167
00:55:02,039 --> 00:55:04,039
to your call. Please stay to name it where you're.

1168
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:08,559
Speaker 10: From, Heyway Destruction, Texas. And I have a couple of

1169
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,440
I have one question and a couple of comments. Sure,

1170
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:19,239
one comment the last thing that WWE really free themselves

1171
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,840
kind of when they drop the F and put the

1172
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,760
ww for WWE because it was already WWE when it

1173
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,000
was WWF. They didn't have to come out and say it.

1174
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,760
And the second comment, well, the second question I have

1175
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:42,519
is is the Devon and the kids and the Pope storyline?

1176
00:55:42,559 --> 00:55:43,800
Is that one going anywhere?

1177
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean it's going somewhere. I don't know where,

1178
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,239
but obviously it's on the air because they're building up

1179
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,159
the Devon Pope VIEWD and I don't know what the

1180
00:55:52,199 --> 00:55:57,599
next twistle turnal be, but it's going somewhere. Yeah.

1181
00:55:57,679 --> 00:56:02,039
Speaker 10: And then my my third kind of iman would be, actually,

1182
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:08,280
it's the money in the bank scenario. What if Punk

1183
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,440
wins and then John Cena goes off TV for a

1184
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,679
while Because I even think now after watching well for

1185
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,440
a while that he's even getting bored with his character

1186
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,039
because he's going out there and he's doing the same

1187
00:56:20,119 --> 00:56:23,159
thing and it's just it's getting it's even getting boring

1188
00:56:23,159 --> 00:56:26,119
for me to watch it. So he goes away for

1189
00:56:26,119 --> 00:56:29,239
a while. Hunt takes the championship, but away from the

1190
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:34,239
WDBE they don't create a new one, and then you

1191
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,400
lose the brand split, which gives me nothing to look

1192
00:56:37,519 --> 00:56:42,519
for to on Friday. Then you bring kind of the

1193
00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:46,199
FCW on the TV in my market so I can

1194
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,000
watch it, and then it would make more fun for

1195
00:56:50,119 --> 00:56:53,280
me because I get behind an independent wrestler that's in

1196
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,199
developmental then I get to watch him in WWE.

1197
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,119
Speaker 3: Okay, well, let me jump in Josh and hit a

1198
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:01,559
few things here. First of all, all John Cena is

1199
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:04,360
not going to go anywhere. He's headlining WrestleMania next year

1200
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,280
against the Rock and up until next year's WrestleMania, they

1201
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:12,320
are going to invest everything they have and making sure

1202
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,519
that John Cena stays over for that match one way

1203
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:16,280
or the other. Will there it be some twists in turns?

1204
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,840
Might they improvise? Might they turn them? Might they who? Yes?

1205
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:19,400
Who knows?

1206
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:19,559
Speaker 9: What?

1207
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:21,559
Speaker 3: Twist? And turns because you know, we've been talking about

1208
00:57:21,559 --> 00:57:24,320
Sam punk in that angle being the problem. But John

1209
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,159
Cena was the centerpiece of an addition of Monday Night

1210
00:57:27,239 --> 00:57:29,519
Raw that through one of the lowest ratings of this century.

1211
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,559
It wasn't a show that he wasn't on. It wasn't

1212
00:57:31,559 --> 00:57:33,000
a show where people didn't know he's gonna be on.

1213
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,440
He was one of the centerpieces of that show. He

1214
00:57:35,519 --> 00:57:36,840
was on in the first segment, he was on in

1215
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,519
the last segment. There's you know, ww East done a

1216
00:57:39,559 --> 00:57:41,599
bad job promoting the middle of the card. I you know,

1217
00:57:41,639 --> 00:57:44,079
there's no doubt about that. But a two point nine

1218
00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:46,199
rating falls mostly on the shoulders of the top guy.

1219
00:57:46,519 --> 00:57:48,559
So yeah, it is an issue, and I think WWE

1220
00:57:48,599 --> 00:57:50,599
needs to needs to be concerned about that. They're not

1221
00:57:50,719 --> 00:57:53,880
They're They're not going to set him away and the

1222
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,000
brand split so that you can watch indie wrestling or

1223
00:57:56,039 --> 00:57:58,679
developmental wrestling. That's just that's not feasible. That's not part

1224
00:57:58,719 --> 00:58:00,920
of their business plan. The fact that you would like that.

1225
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,519
My question as a follow up when people say that

1226
00:58:03,639 --> 00:58:05,840
is if I gave you a million dollars right now

1227
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,880
and said FDW has to be successful or I'm taking

1228
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,920
the million dollars away, would you actually put FCW on

1229
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,280
the air, And if not, then don't ask enso Man

1230
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,559
to do it, because he's not catering to you, he's

1231
00:58:16,599 --> 00:58:21,920
catering to profitability. And right now, SmackDown is still one

1232
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,000
of the top shows on cable even with the rating

1233
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:27,280
half of Rad's well not anymore. But you know, a

1234
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,079
one point seven to one point eight rating is still

1235
00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:31,599
number one on sci Fi. It's it's a rating where

1236
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:33,800
I think they can take some chances with the format,

1237
00:58:34,039 --> 00:58:36,000
but it's not one where they're going to dump the show.

1238
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,199
Speaker 9: You wait, I add something absolutely jump number one the

1239
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,199
using a cmpunk quote. The empty suits don't think that

1240
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,039
John Cena is the reason why they're pulling a two

1241
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:54,679
point nine. They think that it's everybody else besides John

1242
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,960
Cena that is causing them to pull a two point nine.

1243
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,480
So that's problem number one. Problem number two is I

1244
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,199
guess it's not a problem, but it's just a comment

1245
00:59:02,239 --> 00:59:08,239
regarding FCW. In technical terms, yes, it's an independent wrestling company,

1246
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:13,760
but that is FCW is not an independent promotion. FCW

1247
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,239
is a developmental system. What they put on their television

1248
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,320
is not good. If you ask me, and I'm sure

1249
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,440
people would would feel differently. But we used to get

1250
00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:28,280
all their DVDs and I used to watch them because

1251
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,239
I had guys up there that I wanted to bring up.

1252
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,360
And the programming is I mean, it's developmental. Let's get

1253
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:39,280
guys comfortable on a TV et cetera. But you would

1254
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,280
not want to promote that product on a national level.

1255
00:59:43,159 --> 00:59:45,599
Speaker 3: Right, It isn't designed. Yeah, it's not designed to be

1256
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:47,880
on a national level. And the fact is, do you

1257
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,199
really want to expose like, let's say you're I don't

1258
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,039
just use another analogy. If you're a TV show, do

1259
00:59:54,039 --> 00:59:56,920
you really want to expose John Ham before he stars

1260
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:58,360
in Mad Men? Do you really want to put him

1261
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,159
on shows before he's good at acting and promote the

1262
01:00:02,159 --> 01:00:04,360
show and go, hey, watch the show. Here's an actor

1263
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,000
who's not good yet, but hopefully someday he will be

1264
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,039
and then he'll be the star of a show. No, no,

1265
01:00:09,639 --> 01:00:13,000
FCW is there with a limited audience in Florida, so

1266
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:16,000
that it doesn't the national audience doesn't see people before

1267
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,599
they're ready for the big show, for the limelight. And

1268
01:00:18,679 --> 01:00:20,559
you know, could they make it development on the internet? Sure,

1269
01:00:20,599 --> 01:00:22,800
because I think Ultimately, the Internet is always going to

1270
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,840
be a limited audience. It's everybody on the internet, almost

1271
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,159
everybody is. I mean there's eighty year olds who know

1272
01:00:28,199 --> 01:00:30,039
how to you, you know, who know what the Google

1273
01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:34,360
is now. But are they visiting the PW Torch app

1274
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,760
every single day and devowering all the articles? Well no,

1275
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,840
I mean there's a lot of people on the Internet,

1276
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,559
but not everybody actually is fanatical enough to follow every

1277
01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:44,599
detail or take an hour of their day out to

1278
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:46,800
go watch an FCW show. So you could get away

1279
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:48,639
with putting it on the Internet, but that audience isn't

1280
01:00:48,679 --> 01:00:51,679
there for it to be a big national show if

1281
01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:53,639
you're just joining us. This is the PW Torch Love

1282
01:00:53,719 --> 01:00:57,360
Cast on Friday July fifteenth, twenty eleven. I'm Wade Keller,

1283
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:59,800
editor and publisher with the Progressing Torch newsletter and PW

1284
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,880
tor dot com. Joined today by John Piermarini, former writer

1285
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,360
for two years with WWE in two thousand and nine

1286
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,800
and twenty ten. He's become a weekly fixture on the

1287
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,639
show for the time being and it's been great having

1288
01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:12,480
him on. I want to remind people Sunday night, following

1289
01:01:12,559 --> 01:01:15,679
money in the bank, there will be a special edition

1290
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,440
of the PW Torch Live Cast. James Caldwell and Greg

1291
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,079
Parks will be hosting live Sunday night following Money in

1292
01:01:22,119 --> 01:01:26,320
the Bank, taking your phone calls about the just completed show,

1293
01:01:26,639 --> 01:01:29,880
so be sure to tune in for that on a

1294
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,800
Sunday night. I believe they're starting a half hour after

1295
01:01:33,239 --> 01:01:37,360
the conclusion of the pay per view, so definitely tune

1296
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,400
in then, and we welcome your calls. We are taking

1297
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,719
your phone calls right now about Money in the Bank TNA,

1298
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,800
Rock SNA. We have talked about too much about rock

1299
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:47,119
scenea yet, but seam punkin Sina also.

1300
01:01:48,679 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: Admit it. You love Nick Barbatty when he co hosts

1301
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:52,639
with me on the Wadekeller Post shows. Well now you

1302
01:01:52,639 --> 01:01:55,000
can listen to him every week on The Nikis Club,

1303
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,079
a VP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.

1304
01:01:58,159 --> 01:02:00,639
Speaker 11: Hey wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty. I'm back with the

1305
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:03,000
Nickys Club, the place where the family of Nickys comes

1306
01:02:03,039 --> 01:02:05,760
together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE, for

1307
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,840
WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns. I got you covered. The

1308
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,280
Nickis Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club

1309
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:11,639
in town.

1310
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,719
Speaker 1: Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling

1311
01:02:13,719 --> 01:02:16,559
life every week, so why not let him go vip

1312
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:20,079
PW torch dot com slash go vip for full details

1313
01:02:20,079 --> 01:02:23,559
on signing up. We're compatible with patreons, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

1314
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:26,000
and just about any other iOS or Android app out there.

1315
01:02:26,039 --> 01:02:28,800
You can also stream directly from our ad free VIP website.

1316
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,320
The nickis Club waiting for you every week at PW

1317
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:32,159
Torch VIP.

1318
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,559
Speaker 3: Let's go back to the phone lines and go to

1319
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:37,800
another person who's been on hold almost an hour, eight

1320
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,639
five zero. Thanks so much for holding. Please state your

1321
01:02:39,679 --> 01:02:41,360
name and where you're from.

1322
01:02:41,719 --> 01:02:43,119
Speaker 12: This is Charles from Florida.

1323
01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:45,159
Speaker 3: Hey, Charles from Florida. What's on your mind?

1324
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 12: I've got four questions, one of which would be really

1325
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,360
good for John, and none of them are pertaining to

1326
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,400
the pay per views bekin because I really don't. I

1327
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,960
think the storyline are overshut of the match. But my

1328
01:02:59,039 --> 01:03:02,679
first question is is there any more status of Bate

1329
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,360
on Daphney's lost through with PNA about the workmen's compting.

1330
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:07,679
Speaker 3: Go ahead and get me all four questions and I'll

1331
01:03:07,719 --> 01:03:08,719
write them down and then we'll.

1332
01:03:08,559 --> 01:03:13,039
Speaker 12: Tackle them okay, that's one. Two, I know fit Smley,

1333
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,039
we used to be the road agent for the girls.

1334
01:03:15,679 --> 01:03:16,639
Who does that now?

1335
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 3: Okay?

1336
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,639
Speaker 12: And the last I guess you guys, And the last

1337
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:24,039
two were just you guys kind of touched on. One

1338
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,719
is why doesn't since a lot of these guys are

1339
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:28,800
still green when they come up from SCW, why doesn't

1340
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,920
the he developed more tightest indy fit? And finally for John,

1341
01:03:33,559 --> 01:03:36,239
given all the backstories we've heard about the good ole

1342
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,079
Basin like the mid seventies to today, of what happened

1343
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:41,480
used to happen to the wrestlers backstage and off screen

1344
01:03:41,559 --> 01:03:43,679
and such, how can the bodies really try to pitch

1345
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:44,760
that as a drama.

1346
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,239
Speaker 3: Hit? Yeah, let me let me Charles, let me clarify

1347
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:50,800
question pitch what is a drama?

1348
01:03:52,159 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 12: Well, like the we get like on all these shoot videos,

1349
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,480
we get stories about what used to happen, like the

1350
01:03:57,599 --> 01:04:01,559
ron Erics, the Mid South days. How come Melans really

1351
01:04:01,559 --> 01:04:03,639
actually trying to write that up and try and pitch that,

1352
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,880
you know, like a TV series or.

1353
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 7: Even you know, like a mini movie.

1354
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 12: Because we've seen enough document document documentaries and even some

1355
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,239
things like The Wrestler to know there would be at

1356
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:16,719
least some sort of I don't think it's for it.

1357
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: So basically, do a TV show sort of like Friday

1358
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:21,320
Night Lights about high school football team, but make a

1359
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,800
fully scripted, full of actors weekly drama that would be

1360
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,199
about a pro wrestling circuit in you know whatever era.

1361
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,760
Is that kind of what you're getting at. Yeah, okay, yeah,

1362
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,719
and like that. It sounds good. And let me clarify

1363
01:04:32,719 --> 01:04:35,599
your SCW question. You want to know why WWE doesn't

1364
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,280
develop these guys better before they go on the main roster.

1365
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:39,039
Was that your question?

1366
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,079
Speaker 12: Well, it just seems like they're they're really green when

1367
01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:42,719
they come up.

1368
01:04:43,159 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 2: And they like they need more seasons.

1369
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,639
Speaker 12: Aside from just that one you know hour or so

1370
01:04:47,719 --> 01:04:49,719
they get with that CW. Like maybe they need to

1371
01:04:49,719 --> 01:04:52,199
be in front of a different audience for a while

1372
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:53,440
like they used to do in the old days, where

1373
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,440
they would go two or three different characteris before they.

1374
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,079
Speaker 2: Would go up to the next nineteen.

1375
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks TROS. Just to remind people, we're down to

1376
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,440
ninety seconds live. If you're listening to us live, we're

1377
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,719
going to continue on with a free extended version that

1378
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,280
you can listen to. And by the way, you can

1379
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,400
listen to it if you call the number right now

1380
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,320
six four, six seven eight. You don't have to participate,

1381
01:05:13,519 --> 01:05:15,000
but you can eaves drop in if you call in

1382
01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:16,760
right away, even though we'll be going off on the

1383
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,559
stream on the live stream right away. Otherwise, you can

1384
01:05:19,599 --> 01:05:23,159
download the archive. In the next half hour, it should

1385
01:05:23,159 --> 01:05:25,000
be on blog Talk Radio and you should be able

1386
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,519
to listen to the archive or to be on our

1387
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:29,360
iTunes speed. I'll go second, John, and I will also

1388
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:31,840
be staying after and doing some VIP exclusive content after

1389
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,679
we get through a couple more calls here. If you're

1390
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:35,679
on hold, stay on hold, even though we're about to

1391
01:05:35,679 --> 01:05:37,920
wrap up. The live portion of the program will be

1392
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,840
going off mid sentence any second. Now. I don't have

1393
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:43,639
the latest on the Daphne laws to Charles, but it's

1394
01:05:43,639 --> 01:05:47,039
a good reminder and I'll check into it. Finley, John,

1395
01:05:47,079 --> 01:05:50,719
when you were at wwe did anyone in particular, as

1396
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:52,679
far as a producer or an agent or a writer

1397
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,599
work with the women more than others.

1398
01:05:55,679 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 9: Well, I mean Skin listen pretty much as all of

1399
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,159
their matches and works with them. I think that I'm

1400
01:06:02,199 --> 01:06:05,079
trying to remember if he were to ever have somebody

1401
01:06:05,119 --> 01:06:07,639
with them on a matchup. I think it was Jamie Nobles,

1402
01:06:07,719 --> 01:06:11,880
so I'm assuming that Jamie Noble is probably taken over

1403
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:15,760
that role unless they brought somebody in, but none of

1404
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,960
the like Arn Anderson, I can't think of. I can't

1405
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,039
think of the agist right now. I'm assuming it's Jamie

1406
01:06:24,079 --> 01:06:24,800
Noble though.

1407
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,719
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, that makes sense. SCW and seasoning, I mean,

1408
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,280
they don't want to bring green guys up. I know,

1409
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,639
Mason Ryan, a lot of people are kind of, you know,

1410
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,800
wondering if that was exactly the right move and the

1411
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,400
right timing to bring him up. You know what, It's

1412
01:06:39,639 --> 01:06:41,199
tough John to know when the right time is to

1413
01:06:41,199 --> 01:06:43,519
bring somebody up. If you need a roster spots filled,

1414
01:06:44,119 --> 01:06:46,480
you do it. I think NXT is, you know, supposed

1415
01:06:46,519 --> 01:06:50,000
to be a means to give some seasoning to guys superstars.

1416
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,119
Is that is another outlet that's above SCW where they

1417
01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:55,679
think they're ready to be seen by hundreds of thousands

1418
01:06:55,679 --> 01:06:57,760
of people nationally, but they're not necessarily ready to be,

1419
01:06:58,039 --> 01:06:59,840
you know, a main fixture on the main show. But

1420
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:02,280
the part of it, too, Charles, is they don't have

1421
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,639
territories to go to, you know, I mean WWE doesn't

1422
01:07:05,679 --> 01:07:07,559
have a relationship with any other territory where they can

1423
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:09,480
set a wrestler for three years to learn how to

1424
01:07:09,559 --> 01:07:11,920
draw money and cut promos and figure out who they

1425
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,320
are as a person and as a character. So, you know,

1426
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,039
we're kind of stuck with the system we got. Now,

1427
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:17,519
john do you think there's anything they could do to

1428
01:07:17,519 --> 01:07:18,000
improve that?

1429
01:07:19,679 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 9: I think the problem is there'll be a time where,

1430
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,320
you know, there, like you said, there needs to be

1431
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,599
a foster spot filled, and Vince goes to Johnny, who's

1432
01:07:28,639 --> 01:07:31,199
who were going to have come up? He's just got

1433
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,119
kind of got to pick with what they got down there. Unfortunately,

1434
01:07:35,199 --> 01:07:39,719
you know, they're bringing in guys with initially with no experience,

1435
01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:42,639
and there's guys that stay down there for a year. Well,

1436
01:07:42,719 --> 01:07:45,199
I mean, that's what you're gonna get there they're no longer,

1437
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:47,760
you know. I think the miss perception too. Like the

1438
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,440
guy had said earlier, you know, FCW's a independent, why

1439
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,280
not just put them on TV? You know, Wade, you

1440
01:07:53,719 --> 01:07:55,679
more about this than me because I was just you know,

1441
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,360
a young fan, you know, reading Pro wrestling illustrated. But

1442
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,440
the indies were a place where guys were developed and

1443
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:06,480
then you know, with WWE or WWF or WCW wanted

1444
01:08:06,519 --> 01:08:08,800
to take somebody from there, they were ready to go

1445
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:13,960
on TV. That's not the case with FCW. So you

1446
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,960
don't have those guys. You have to go and grab

1447
01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:19,640
the Daniel Bryan's and the low Keys and stuff like

1448
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:23,600
that to be able to fill that void of people

1449
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,840
that can actually work. And FCW is more. So Let's

1450
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,520
take you know, John who's never done anything, but he's

1451
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,319
got the look, and let's put him in FCW. And

1452
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,640
when we need that type of person up here, we're

1453
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:40,600
gonna bring him up here. You know. NXT I think

1454
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:45,199
was sort of supposed to be that proving group and

1455
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:50,319
to an extent, ECW, but you know how wokex T

1456
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:50,960
is now.

1457
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,399
Speaker 12: But I don't know.

1458
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 9: I think Superstars could be a good avenue to kind

1459
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,560
of bring guys up and just kind of, you know,

1460
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,079
get that experience with the limited audience, but at least

1461
01:09:02,079 --> 01:09:04,560
you can feel what it's like with the WWE crowd.

1462
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,359
You can work some of these bigger name guys with

1463
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,279
more experience. I think too that if they were smart,

1464
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,239
you know, like you said, they don't have a relationship

1465
01:09:13,239 --> 01:09:15,720
with other independence. But take a guy who you're getting

1466
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:17,840
ready to bring up like a Wave Bearritt or whoever

1467
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,720
it may be, and send them around the country, you know,

1468
01:09:21,159 --> 01:09:24,119
or or send them down to Mexico or somewhere else

1469
01:09:24,159 --> 01:09:26,760
and just have them work and see what it's like

1470
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,880
and then have that sort of life and ring experience

1471
01:09:31,039 --> 01:09:32,960
and then bring them up and bring them in. I mean,

1472
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:35,840
you got guys with no experience who have been trained

1473
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,159
for a year and then you go, Okay, here it is.

1474
01:09:38,199 --> 01:09:43,760
And you expect these guys to respect the world of

1475
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,680
wrestling and the history and the tradition and they don't.

1476
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:48,720
But you can't blame them.

1477
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:54,359
Speaker 3: And over the years too, and they still do this.

1478
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:56,800
We'll have guys who aren't quite ready for TV. They'll

1479
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,880
put them on house shows and let them work opening matches.

1480
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:00,520
I think Kurd Angle worked on Man just for a

1481
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:02,479
while at house shows to get ready. There are other

1482
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:04,680
wrestlers who, you know, they get them ready and they

1483
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,800
put them on house shows, but they don't introduce them

1484
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:08,439
on TV. And that's a chance to get real in

1485
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:13,159
ring experience. That helps. I've been in this corporate world too.

1486
01:10:13,279 --> 01:10:16,640
It's a different world. Sending way Bear to Mexico would

1487
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,199
be an amazing experience for him, you know, I mean,

1488
01:10:19,359 --> 01:10:20,920
you know it would be he'd come back with different things.

1489
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:23,600
But I think WWE from a liability standpoint, can you

1490
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,319
really take somebody under contract and send them into a

1491
01:10:26,359 --> 01:10:28,680
wrestling ring and an environment where you don't know what

1492
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:30,840
the health standards are about cleaning the mat, you don't

1493
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,199
know about you know, commissions, you don't know about what

1494
01:10:34,199 --> 01:10:36,560
happens if somebody's injured. Do they have medical staff on

1495
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,199
hand right all of a sudden. I mean you you know,

1496
01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:41,600
there's just corporate liability issues that didn't exist in the

1497
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:44,760
seventies and eighties to think about too. And you know,

1498
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,399
Vincent Mann, I think was soured on the WW experience.

1499
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:48,920
The back issue of the pros and Torch and New

1500
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,479
Futter I just put up from ten years ago for

1501
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,479
VIP members yesterday, and it's just fresh in my mind

1502
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,319
because I was looking at it. It's all about the

1503
01:10:56,359 --> 01:10:58,479
buff Bagwell book or team match that stunk the ring

1504
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,520
out on Rob and then vinsick Mann pull the plug

1505
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,279
on WW is a separate entity. All the WW guys

1506
01:11:04,279 --> 01:11:07,560
were looked at as inferior workers with bad habits, a

1507
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,600
sense of entitlement. They didn't work full time house show schedules,

1508
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:12,760
but they were used to full time pay and in

1509
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,840
the ring, they just they worked a different style. WWE

1510
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,359
has WWE style, and so I think it's and you

1511
01:11:19,399 --> 01:11:21,960
know what, one thing out of fairness too. There's always

1512
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,159
been green guys who got pushes, you know. I mean

1513
01:11:24,199 --> 01:11:25,720
you go back to the seventies and look at tapes.

1514
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,560
There's green wrestlers getting pushes for various reasons that have

1515
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:31,880
the look they were the friend of the promoter, whatever

1516
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,359
it is. Wrestling has always had a mix of good

1517
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:37,119
workers and green guys, some of whom got better and

1518
01:11:37,119 --> 01:11:40,239
some of them didn't. Yeah, yeah, well, let's let's go

1519
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:41,760
ahead and try to get a couple more calls in

1520
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:45,479
here and go to go next to Eric Oda five

1521
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,640
five nine. You've been a hold a long time. Thanks holding.

1522
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:48,920
Please fix your name and where you're from.

1523
01:11:50,039 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 12: Hey, guys, keep from California.

1524
01:11:52,079 --> 01:11:54,399
Speaker 3: I see, thanks for holding so long. What's in your mind?

1525
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, no, Hey, just question about Tina and Rock.

1526
01:11:59,239 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 2: Let's say we gets to you know.

1527
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,319
Speaker 12: December, and you know Sema could really injured a really

1528
01:12:04,359 --> 01:12:04,720
bad one.

1529
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,119
Speaker 7: It's gonna knock him out for a long time. Do

1530
01:12:07,239 --> 01:12:08,760
they try to plug some of the in or do

1531
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:10,000
they just squash the match?

1532
01:12:11,279 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, John would Rock wrestle somebody besides Concina Asena got injured.

1533
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:15,279
I doubt it.

1534
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:21,399
Speaker 9: Uh, you know I was gonna say yes only because

1535
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:25,960
I think that to be perfectly honest. We've had some

1536
01:12:26,079 --> 01:12:31,479
scares with Sina. I think even leading up to WrestleMania

1537
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:35,960
twenty gosh, I can't remember which one was Atlanta, No,

1538
01:12:36,119 --> 01:12:41,079
not Atlanta, Arizona twenty six, WrestleMania twenty six. I think

1539
01:12:41,319 --> 01:12:44,920
if I'm not mistaken around or right before Royal Rumble,

1540
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,720
we had a scare with uh with Sina. We also

1541
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:52,119
had a scare with Undertaker, but we looked for backup options.

1542
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:56,680
And I know we talked about this before, but if

1543
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,560
Rock is sitting here going I'll work WrestleMania and I'll

1544
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,159
work at against Sena and he says I'm only coming back.

1545
01:13:02,159 --> 01:13:05,399
If it's Sena, well you're screwed. If he's willing to

1546
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:07,760
come back and say, all right, well you know what

1547
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:11,000
bring Punk back or All Work is or whoever it

1548
01:13:11,039 --> 01:13:14,880
may be, then yeah, we want WW wants to have

1549
01:13:15,119 --> 01:13:18,000
Rock at WrestleMania in the main event. If something were

1550
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,800
to happen to Sena and Rock is willing to wrestle

1551
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:24,880
somebody else, they'll do it. If he's not, they'll find

1552
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,119
something else for him to. But you know, you put

1553
01:13:27,159 --> 01:13:31,479
yourself in a hard position if Rock says, listen, I

1554
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,439
came back for Sena and nobody else because Rock's not

1555
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:37,640
necessarily for people like us, he'll take the brunt of it,

1556
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,720
but for for everyone else, they're gonna go, wwe promoted

1557
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:45,800
the Rock and you didn't even give us that. You know,

1558
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,319
I get it, No Sena, but now no Rock. I

1559
01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:50,039
think they they have to use him.

1560
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know. You know, Rock versus Miss Rock

1561
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:58,479
versus Punk Rock versus Triple H, Rock versus Undertaker, rock

1562
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,039
versus Randy Orton never had and that's not going to happen,

1563
01:14:01,079 --> 01:14:03,279
by the way, after some of these tours for them

1564
01:14:03,279 --> 01:14:06,199
in exchange. But yeah, I mean it's you know, ideally

1565
01:14:06,239 --> 01:14:07,840
there would be a backup plan that would work and

1566
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:09,760
Rock would be able to do it. But I almost

1567
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,560
think that they'd just they deliver, you know, Triple H Undertaker,

1568
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,880
they deliver. Uh, they'd bring Jericho or Batista back or something,

1569
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,399
and they'd make the best out of it and then

1570
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,600
they'd wait for seeing it to be healthy and and

1571
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:22,199
and do that too. I think that'd be, you know,

1572
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,039
another option, but they don't even want to think about it. Uh, Steve,

1573
01:14:26,039 --> 01:14:26,760
anything else for us?

1574
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:29,399
Speaker 2: What about?

1575
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 10: You know?

1576
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 12: Was bringing back as he says that he can wrestle

1577
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:32,880
some more.

1578
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:37,520
Speaker 3: If you really wanted to, Yeah, Austin Rock wanted to.

1579
01:14:38,079 --> 01:14:40,199
Yeah if Rock, If Austin wanted to work Rock, I

1580
01:14:40,199 --> 01:14:45,239
bet Rock would work with Austin. Again, they're cordial, boring,

1581
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:50,279
fair enough. H One question that Charles asked that we

1582
01:14:50,359 --> 01:14:53,039
forgot about backstage stories as a drama, sort of a

1583
01:14:53,039 --> 01:14:56,039
Friday night Lights type drama or heck, you know Glee,

1584
01:14:56,119 --> 01:14:58,039
you know it's what's what's a high school you know,

1585
01:14:58,159 --> 01:15:00,560
high school singing club or whatever? Could you do a

1586
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,840
drama that was just based around wrestlers on the road

1587
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,039
in the old territory days?

1588
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:10,319
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, if there was a network or production

1589
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:13,640
company that wanted to invest in a wrestling show. But

1590
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,439
I don't know if people do. I just don't fit.

1591
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:20,159
The people that are in charge of making these decisions

1592
01:15:20,359 --> 01:15:24,279
know about these stories of what it's like to be

1593
01:15:24,359 --> 01:15:27,720
a wrestler in the seventies or eighties or even now.

1594
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:32,039
When we started the ww Network, or not started it,

1595
01:15:32,079 --> 01:15:36,760
but started pitching stuff for it, Eventually we were told, well,

1596
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,000
we don't want to spend money, so don't pitch any

1597
01:15:39,039 --> 01:15:43,319
ideas that cost money. But I thought that it would

1598
01:15:43,319 --> 01:15:49,359
be interesting to do a series on Vince McMahon as

1599
01:15:49,399 --> 01:15:52,199
he's getting ready to start a wrestling company and then

1600
01:15:52,319 --> 01:15:56,079
kind of go into him starting it and you can

1601
01:15:56,159 --> 01:15:59,680
kind of tell that story. But I think it'd be interesting.

1602
01:16:01,319 --> 01:16:03,319
I just don't know if the people that make the

1603
01:16:03,359 --> 01:16:06,920
decisions or the people that write the stories are familiar

1604
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:07,760
with all that stuff.

1605
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'd have to bring you know, Terry and Dorry

1606
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:13,319
funk In and and Larry the Axe Henning and you

1607
01:16:13,359 --> 01:16:15,640
know some of the you know Territory or Jim Brounzell

1608
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,439
or Jesse Ventur, you know whatever. I mean, there are

1609
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,720
out there people who were traveled in the seventies and eighties.

1610
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,199
They didn't need they'd need three, four or five good

1611
01:16:22,199 --> 01:16:25,640
consultants to help any modern day writer capture the flavor

1612
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:27,920
of that moment. But you know, a period piece, I mean,

1613
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:32,840
Bad Men is a phenomenal period piece. Is it justified?

1614
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,279
Is that the other show on Uh? I don't know

1615
01:16:35,319 --> 01:16:37,960
that one's really good. But you know, there's period pieces

1616
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,960
out there that could be done. I mean it's more

1617
01:16:40,079 --> 01:16:42,279
expensive to period pieces. But the good news is there's

1618
01:16:42,279 --> 01:16:45,439
still a lot of old dilapidated arenas around that are

1619
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:47,520
in you know, some of the smaller markets or attached

1620
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,680
to newer buildings, so you'd at least have the sets

1621
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:51,680
that were built, and you could, you know, just film backstage.

1622
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,680
You'd have already made set and and then you know,

1623
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:56,399
film some matches with an old wrestling ring that you

1624
01:16:56,399 --> 01:16:58,560
could probably find on an indie scene, so you wouldn't

1625
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,119
have to recreate the sets. They still exist. They're just

1626
01:17:01,279 --> 01:17:03,960
you know, old dilapidated buildings that are out there. All right,

1627
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:06,600
we got another caller who's been on hold almost an hour,

1628
01:17:07,039 --> 01:17:09,479
so let's go to the last caller who's been on

1629
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:11,840
hold for a marathon. Although someone else has been on

1630
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,319
over forty minutes, so we'll get to you also, Erico

1631
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:15,960
nine to one four, thanks for holding so long. Please

1632
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:20,960
stay your name and where you're from. Nine one four,

1633
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:26,359
nine one four. I'm giving you plenty of opportunity because

1634
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:34,039
they held for fifty five minutes. Nine one four. All right,

1635
01:17:34,119 --> 01:17:37,600
nine one four hellope, all right, I'll put you on

1636
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,439
hold and I'll try I'll try you back because you

1637
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:42,399
held for so long.

1638
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:47,039
Speaker 1: Before pushing play on the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling post shows.

1639
01:17:47,119 --> 01:17:49,600
Check out pw torch dot com and our TV review

1640
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,520
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1641
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:54,199
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01:17:54,199 --> 01:17:57,159
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01:17:57,159 --> 01:18:00,600
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1644
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:03,800
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1645
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:07,000
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1648
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1649
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1650
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Speaker 3: Let's go to Erico two two then on Old forty minutes,

1651
01:18:21,279 --> 01:18:23,640
please stay to name it where you're from.

1652
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:25,319
Speaker 7: Hey, what's going on? Anthony?

1653
01:18:25,319 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 3: So Washington, DC, Ashton?

1654
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 7: He said, no, Anthony.

1655
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 3: Oh, Anthony, okay, cool? What's on your mind?

1656
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:37,119
Speaker 7: Anthony? What's going on? I was listening to the early

1657
01:18:37,159 --> 01:18:41,560
part of your discussion talking about how they you know,

1658
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,319
trying to get their identity together if they want to

1659
01:18:45,359 --> 01:18:48,920
be gg thirteen or where there are type of organs

1660
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:51,720
like you're talking about the Devin. Now, Yeah, I think

1661
01:18:52,039 --> 01:18:55,039
Vinson managed trying to do and and John you might

1662
01:18:55,079 --> 01:18:57,520
can correct me on the I think what Vince McMahon

1663
01:18:57,600 --> 01:18:59,199
is trying to do is trying to create another hawk

1664
01:18:59,279 --> 01:19:03,079
Ovid you of me if it kills him, he's going

1665
01:19:03,119 --> 01:19:05,279
to try to create another Hullo because I think he's

1666
01:19:05,279 --> 01:19:07,960
wanted hull cool and still got friction between them, so

1667
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,399
and he just want to prove, you know that he's

1668
01:19:11,399 --> 01:19:13,720
the one that you know made this great, you know

1669
01:19:14,279 --> 01:19:17,000
things that we see today as resting as it is today,

1670
01:19:17,239 --> 01:19:19,039
and not hul Kog. And I think it was like

1671
01:19:19,079 --> 01:19:22,840
a like in between, like you know, beat between the

1672
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,199
two and U and John Seeney is going to be

1673
01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:29,119
his proof that you know, he can create himOther Hope.

1674
01:19:29,199 --> 01:19:30,279
You what did you think about that?

1675
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,119
Speaker 3: I think that's pretty astute. I'll throw to John on

1676
01:19:33,159 --> 01:19:35,880
that in one second, but you know, I think that

1677
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:38,760
Hope for two reasons. Yeah, Vince wanted to prove that

1678
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,960
it was him, not hul Cogan. That's I think why

1679
01:19:41,079 --> 01:19:43,720
a Lex Express tour and got started and Lex Luker

1680
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:45,920
got pushed, and I think since has tried to create

1681
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,119
different Hulk Cogans over the years. But it's also good business.

1682
01:19:48,119 --> 01:19:50,039
You want another Hulk Hogan because Hulk Cogan drew money

1683
01:19:50,039 --> 01:19:52,359
for him and he's in physic Man's promoting comfort zone.

1684
01:19:52,359 --> 01:19:54,560
So that would be my That'd be my initiaction to that, John,

1685
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:55,039
how about you?

1686
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, I was gonna repeat that is that. I think

1687
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,119
he's been trying to make Hulkovi and again since Hole

1688
01:20:01,159 --> 01:20:04,600
Cogan was even there. I think with Ultimate Warrior he started,

1689
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,399
and then like you said, with Lex and and everyone

1690
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:11,359
in between. But you know, and I think that that's

1691
01:20:11,399 --> 01:20:14,239
why he's so big on promoting you know, Stone Cold.

1692
01:20:14,279 --> 01:20:16,479
Speaker 3: Steve Austin is the greatest superstar of all time.

1693
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 7: The rock is the greatest.

1694
01:20:18,319 --> 01:20:20,560
Speaker 9: I think he. I think he already proved he can

1695
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:23,119
do it without Hogan when he had rock In Austin.

1696
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:29,000
Regardless of you Know Who. Again, you could go, well,

1697
01:20:29,079 --> 01:20:32,039
who made who? Vincent Man made the Ring Master stone

1698
01:20:32,039 --> 01:20:34,880
Cold or Steve Austin made Stone Cold. You could work

1699
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:41,479
it both ways. I just don't know if there's going

1700
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:45,359
to be another Whole Cogan. Stone Cold is one thing,

1701
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:48,399
but I just Hoole Cogan is just once in a lifetime.

1702
01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:51,039
I think. I think Hogan hit and it was the

1703
01:20:51,399 --> 01:20:54,159
timing is right, and I don't think you'll see another one.

1704
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:57,640
I mean, look, they're trying so hard. I mean, John

1705
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:00,479
Cena is essentially Whole Cogan. I mean I don't really

1706
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,199
see much of a difference.

1707
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 3: But.

1708
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 9: It's just he's He's not whole Cogan. And the thing

1709
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,520
about Whole Cogan, too, is that Whole Cogan sort of

1710
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:17,119
fit to the demographic of the kids that were watching

1711
01:21:17,119 --> 01:21:19,319
at the time, me being one of them. It was

1712
01:21:19,359 --> 01:21:23,239
about heroes, you know, g I, Joe, about you know, America,

1713
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:26,600
and about you know, standing up for what's right, and

1714
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:31,199
John Cena is still doing that and that's not what

1715
01:21:31,359 --> 01:21:36,439
kids are looking for these days. What kind of Orton

1716
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:42,640
was supposed to be was the anti that, but they

1717
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:46,000
didn't really they didn't really do what was needed with

1718
01:21:46,279 --> 01:21:48,199
Orton to accomplish that.

1719
01:21:49,119 --> 01:21:52,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I think every era has its own style

1720
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:54,840
of hero you know, every era has its own style

1721
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:56,720
of tak show host, Every era has its own type

1722
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:59,239
of rock music. And I think every pro wrestling era

1723
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:02,079
has hero and the two have to meet at at

1724
01:22:02,079 --> 01:22:03,800
the right time. You know, you have to have the

1725
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,079
right type of person who walks in a room and

1726
01:22:06,199 --> 01:22:08,760
fills the room with their charisma, you know, and and

1727
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:12,279
and and is it just has that it factor where

1728
01:22:12,319 --> 01:22:14,600
they walk in any room and they just have it. Obviously,

1729
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:19,760
the Rock Triple hs to an extent, John Cena, Steve Austin,

1730
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:22,760
Hulk Hogan. I mean they walk into a room, you know,

1731
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:25,479
something different is there's somebody there with a presence. You

1732
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,159
need to have that. But you also then have to

1733
01:22:27,159 --> 01:22:29,239
have them fit in with a product and have wrestling

1734
01:22:29,279 --> 01:22:30,720
talent and be able to talk on the microphone and

1735
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,760
all that too. In it it Uh, it's a challenge.

1736
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:37,560
It's a challenge to find that person at the right time.

1737
01:22:38,079 --> 01:22:38,279
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1738
01:22:38,319 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 9: I think the one thing too that that kind of

1739
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:48,079
has Hogan and Austin and Rock and everyone else before

1740
01:22:48,159 --> 01:22:52,920
him sort of stand out as opposed to Sina is

1741
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:58,079
that those guys were not only characters, but they were

1742
01:22:58,119 --> 01:23:00,760
larger than life. And I don't say I mean I

1743
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:04,039
think that Ray Mysterio is a better example of that

1744
01:23:04,079 --> 01:23:07,319
than John Cena is you know, John Cena yeah, you

1745
01:23:07,359 --> 01:23:10,279
look at the guy and you go, uh, nobody's that big.

1746
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,880
But that doesn't necessarily make you larger than life. That

1747
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:17,159
makes you unique. And it's and and I think when

1748
01:23:17,279 --> 01:23:20,159
you look at John Cena, and even if you're in

1749
01:23:20,199 --> 01:23:24,199
a room with John Cena, nothing screams out this guy

1750
01:23:24,359 --> 01:23:27,520
is just a character. He's larger than life, this is something,

1751
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,520
this is that he's not real. And I think that

1752
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,479
with Hogan, you you had that audience of people like

1753
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:36,680
me who when I first started went wait is this real?

1754
01:23:37,079 --> 01:23:39,880
But you knew that whole Cogan was just this, this

1755
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:44,880
comic book character, this superhero. And and Sena doesn't doesn't

1756
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:48,279
possess that. And it's it's not even necessarily his fault

1757
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:52,880
because he's made to be the common guy. And I

1758
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:55,479
think that Vince saw that with Austin and said, well,

1759
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:58,079
that's what we gotta do. It've got to relate. But

1760
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,840
stonecold set himself up art because he did things that

1761
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:03,840
you wanted to do, way that I wanted to do,

1762
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,439
that I would never in a million years attempt to do.

1763
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,600
And that's what made him mark what John Cena, Okay,

1764
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:12,960
I can do exactly what John Cena does. I just

1765
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:13,800
can't look like him.

1766
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 3: Yep, yep. Well let's let's let's go ahead and that'll

1767
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:19,399
be the end of our phone call. Portion we'll go

1768
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:20,880
to a VP after show and talk for a few

1769
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,159
more minutes. John for VP ears. I do want to

1770
01:24:24,199 --> 01:24:26,760
let people are listening to us on blog talk radio

1771
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:30,479
dot com, Slash Pro Dash Wrestling Dash Torch, also through

1772
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:33,239
iTunes or through the PW Torch website, streaming, or any

1773
01:24:33,279 --> 01:24:36,960
other method. We're running a special this week for a

1774
01:24:37,039 --> 01:24:39,960
VP sign up. We're gonna offer a big discount on

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01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:44,159
your first month, so please check out PW torch dot

1776
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:46,439
com this weekend for details. We're not gonna run the

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01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:49,079
special for very long and it's money in the bank

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01:24:49,119 --> 01:24:52,720
weekend special, So if you've thought about the VP membership,

1779
01:24:53,359 --> 01:24:55,720
if it intrigues you, to be able to hear our

1780
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top shelf audio other than the live cast, which we

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offer for free, also instantly be able to download seven

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01:25:02,239 --> 01:25:04,399
hours of my one on one Torch Talk with Diamond

1783
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:08,640
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1784
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:11,399
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1785
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:16,760
John Piermarini, who walks through in fascinating detail his experience

1786
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,039
working behind the scenes in WWE throughout two thousand and

1787
01:25:20,159 --> 01:25:22,760
nine and twenty ten. That's part of it. You can

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01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,439
listen to it and read the entire transcript whichever format

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01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,319
you like better. Also hundreds and hundreds of back issues

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uses in PDF format and text format. Tons of audio shows,

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including my radio show that ended on KFAN back in

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that with special guests like Jim Cornette, Paul Hayman, Mick Foley,

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Cactus Jack, Jesse Ventura, Jerry Lawler and his son Brian

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Chris for all kinds of cool guests in our vintage

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of content. We're going to offer a killer price for

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and also, as I talked about earlier in the show,

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the Analysis, the one hour analysis with bruson Me on

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last Night's Impact, and the one hour special covering last

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Night's Raw and the post Destination X round Table, which

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was an hour with Bruce and Pat and a ton more.

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Plus add free access to pwwetorch dot com. Two new

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exclusive audio and text content covering this weekend's money the bank,

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1816
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show support for the Torch and the Lovecast, and I

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01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:48,840
think we'll give you a lot of bank for your buck.

1818
01:26:49,039 --> 01:26:51,680
Go to PW Torch dot com and at the very

1819
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:54,880
top we'll have a link with the special that we're offering.

1820
01:26:55,239 --> 01:26:57,439
Act now, it won't be there long, all right, John,

1821
01:26:57,439 --> 01:26:59,239
we'll wrap up the free portion there, come back and

1822
01:26:59,319 --> 01:27:00,439
hit on a few such So I want to talk

1823
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:03,079
about this war words with the rock in John Cena

1824
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:05,399
as part of the VIP after show here and get

1825
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:07,880
your thoughts on what you know, what kind of heat

1826
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:09,800
might be really going on and what from working with

1827
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,119
John Cena especially what you think is really at work

1828
01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:16,359
in these exchange So that we'll wrap up the free

1829
01:27:16,359 --> 01:27:19,439
portion and we'll be back for VIP members in about

1830
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,359
ten seconds for the VIP after show.

1831
01:27:36,079 --> 01:27:39,800
Speaker 2: Thank you for using blog talk radios. Goodbye.

1832
01:27:40,279 --> 01:27:42,359
Speaker 3: All right, John, have you had a chance to watch

1833
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:46,479
or read about the Rock eleven minute internet video he

1834
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:47,880
posted I think on Monday or I guess it was

1835
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:50,960
probably tuesdayor Wednesday in response to John Cena's promos that

1836
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:52,239
he cut on him in Front of the Life.

1837
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:54,119
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1838
01:27:54,159 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 5: I checked out.

1839
01:27:56,359 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 9: I think I read the transcript of the Rock and

1840
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:02,640
then what John Cena had said previously.

1841
01:28:03,039 --> 01:28:06,399
Speaker 3: So what's going on here? What's your take? I mean,

1842
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:08,680
you know, we talk about seampunk in a semi shoot problem.

1843
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:10,720
I think the real shoot of the month is John

1844
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,520
Cena trying to get under Rock skin and Rock reacting

1845
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:18,399
pretty heavy hand, pretty heavy heavy handedly and defensively in response,

1846
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:20,279
and they're kind of tearing each other down. I think

1847
01:28:20,279 --> 01:28:21,760
in their own mind they say it's worth it because

1848
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,520
we're promoting a fight. But I don't know, I think

1849
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:26,840
there might be more negative than positive in terms of

1850
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:31,479
how they're how they're coming across as secure celebrities.

1851
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, I almost wonder if this is just sort of

1852
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,239
Vince putting it in the hands of these two guys

1853
01:28:37,279 --> 01:28:39,640
to say, you know, do what you want to do

1854
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:42,319
with it. I trust both to you, and then this

1855
01:28:42,399 --> 01:28:44,319
is them trying to just kind of make it as

1856
01:28:44,359 --> 01:28:48,560
real as possible and get people to talk. I don't

1857
01:28:49,199 --> 01:28:51,399
I don't know though. I mean, again, this is all

1858
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,359
something that you can speculate on, but I don't know

1859
01:28:54,359 --> 01:28:57,279
what the truth actually is. I'm going to assume it's

1860
01:28:57,279 --> 01:29:00,840
a work. I'm gonna assume that Vince said it's all yours, guys,

1861
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:03,960
do what you're gonna do with it, and you know,

1862
01:29:04,159 --> 01:29:06,039
I trust you, And I think that this is them

1863
01:29:06,079 --> 01:29:09,800
just trying to quote unquote do the cool thing to

1864
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:12,039
get people to talk and get people to believe this.

1865
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:16,239
I don't necessarily think that this is them trying to

1866
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:20,159
really sort of dig at each other. And you know,

1867
01:29:20,199 --> 01:29:22,640
you got to think, in John Cena's terms, he's got

1868
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:25,039
to respect the fact that Rock is willing to come

1869
01:29:25,039 --> 01:29:26,279
back and work with him.

1870
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,920
Speaker 3: I think I think this is a couple talking about

1871
01:29:30,039 --> 01:29:32,520
I think John Cena has Rock where he wants him.

1872
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:35,479
John Cena wants to get himself over as able to

1873
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,199
stand on the same stage as a Rock and hold

1874
01:29:38,199 --> 01:29:40,640
his own verbally and that that's a huge victory. That's

1875
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:43,039
an elevation of his stature. Just to be in the

1876
01:29:43,079 --> 01:29:44,840
same discussion with the Rock is a big deal because

1877
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:48,239
three years ago, when Sina started trash talking Rock and

1878
01:29:48,359 --> 01:29:51,000
Rock wasn't in on it, I thought, you know, yeah,

1879
01:29:51,159 --> 01:29:53,520
dream on John, like Rock's ever gonna walk away from

1880
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:56,239
movies and hey, come out of schedule to fight you

1881
01:29:56,399 --> 01:29:59,960
nice try. You know. That's like me challenging President Obama

1882
01:30:00,319 --> 01:30:02,680
or John Bayner to a political debate. They're not going

1883
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:04,039
to take time out to do it with me. I

1884
01:30:04,079 --> 01:30:07,479
mean what seriously, they I'm not That's I'm not in

1885
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:10,079
their realm and that's not gonna happen. Okay, So that's

1886
01:30:10,079 --> 01:30:12,119
what I looked at John Cena. It's like, yeah, you're

1887
01:30:12,159 --> 01:30:15,119
smart to aim upward, you know, don't aim down, aim

1888
01:30:15,239 --> 01:30:17,199
up and try to put yourself on his status, on

1889
01:30:17,319 --> 01:30:19,479
his on his level, but you're not. And it just

1890
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:21,439
was a joke. Then here I am three years later,

1891
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:22,760
you know, when I got egg in my face. Yeah,

1892
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:25,359
Rock's coming back to fight scenea circumstances change. Rock wants

1893
01:30:25,399 --> 01:30:27,359
to get back in the action movie genre. He wants

1894
01:30:27,359 --> 01:30:29,640
to reconnect with WWE fans to help his movie career.

1895
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,119
So fine, okay, but Sena's got Rock where he wants

1896
01:30:33,119 --> 01:30:35,520
and where Scena now can say anything he wants, and Rock,

1897
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,439
I think, is so supremely confident that he can hold

1898
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:40,479
his own verbally with anybody. He thinks he can dress

1899
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:43,680
down anybody and take He's bulletproof. So scene is going

1900
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:46,800
all out, and I think I truly think that scene

1901
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:49,600
is getting under rock skin. Rock is I won't say

1902
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:52,640
notoriously thin skinned, but no one to be very image

1903
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:56,319
conscious and maybe a little defensive. And I think whatever

1904
01:30:56,359 --> 01:31:00,239
agreements they had, Seena's gone a little further than is

1905
01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:02,960
is comfortable with. So Rock shoots back and shows in

1906
01:31:03,039 --> 01:31:05,039
his shoot promos that they agreed they would have to

1907
01:31:05,119 --> 01:31:09,000
keep this alive. He's getting entering territory that he thinks

1908
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:11,720
will hurt Sina. I think Sena's laughing it off because,

1909
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:13,720
like you said, John, He's going I can't believe Rock's

1910
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:17,039
talking about me. And I kind of enjoyed the fact

1911
01:31:17,079 --> 01:31:19,600
that I think I'm getting under Dwayne Johnson's skin because

1912
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:22,039
that guy's a little full of himself. That guy's a

1913
01:31:22,079 --> 01:31:24,800
little too, you know, perfect and kind of a hot shot.

1914
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:26,399
And that I mean a few years ago when Rock

1915
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:28,119
showed up to induct his dad into Hall of Fame,

1916
01:31:28,159 --> 01:31:30,439
I heard stories from behind the scenes that you know,

1917
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:34,039
Rock carried himself like he was now Hollywood and not

1918
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:35,520
one of the boys, and there was heat on him

1919
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,479
for how long he was there, and there was you know,

1920
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:39,439
some people questioning whether he should have been at the

1921
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:41,479
Hall of Fame this year, just you know, you're back

1922
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:44,560
in WWE or part of WrestleMania, show up and take

1923
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:46,840
part in that aspect of things, sit in the audience.

1924
01:31:47,039 --> 01:31:49,000
And he didn't do that. And so I think there's

1925
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:52,319
a little bit of Sina representing Randy Orton and the

1926
01:31:52,319 --> 01:31:54,920
rest of the boys, so to speak, who are currently

1927
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,680
in wrestling. I think Seena's representing them by taking it

1928
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:00,239
to the Rock, and I think Rock is looking kind

1929
01:32:00,239 --> 01:32:03,079
of defensive and slightly rattled in trying to keep up

1930
01:32:03,119 --> 01:32:06,239
with Sena. And I think Rock is more right than Sena,

1931
01:32:06,279 --> 01:32:08,279
but I think Rock looks worse by the fact that

1932
01:32:08,319 --> 01:32:11,279
he feels the need to fire back at Sina in

1933
01:32:11,399 --> 01:32:14,560
such a defensive way. So I know that's kind of

1934
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:16,439
my take. I think if they got together, they'd smile.

1935
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:19,079
But I think deep down there's some there's some feelings

1936
01:32:19,079 --> 01:32:20,199
that I've been hurt and there's going to be some

1937
01:32:20,199 --> 01:32:22,239
resentment there. But they're going to be professionals and go

1938
01:32:22,279 --> 01:32:24,319
through with this. So I think you're right Vince said,

1939
01:32:24,319 --> 01:32:25,920
go do it. I think they're going and doing it.

1940
01:32:26,039 --> 01:32:28,439
And I think Sina's getting under rock skin. Rock's not

1941
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:29,840
th rolled with some of the things Sena's saying, and

1942
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:31,880
Sina doesn't care what Rock says because he's like, my god,

1943
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:32,720
Rock's talking about me.

1944
01:32:36,079 --> 01:32:39,760
Speaker 13: Hey everyone, long time PW George commis Sean raddickin here

1945
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:42,560
to let you know. I've revamped and renewed their Atticant

1946
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:47,199
Worldwide podcast for twenty twenty six, a weekly VIP exclusive.

1947
01:32:47,399 --> 01:32:49,600
Every week, I break down four or five of the

1948
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:53,840
biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis,

1949
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,000
providing insight that helps you understand the story better or

1950
01:32:57,039 --> 01:33:00,359
see it another way. Then maybe is the controversial takeout there.

1951
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:02,680
Then I bring on a special guest for the second

1952
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:05,800
half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone

1953
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:08,079
else who works in the business. Other times it's a

1954
01:33:08,119 --> 01:33:11,199
guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view at

1955
01:33:11,199 --> 01:33:14,279
a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have

1956
01:33:14,319 --> 01:33:17,600
included Bronson Reid from WWE and PCO. One of my

1957
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:20,359
areas of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I

1958
01:33:20,399 --> 01:33:23,000
often to cover a big topic from Japan with PW

1959
01:33:23,079 --> 01:33:27,119
Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I

1960
01:33:27,119 --> 01:33:29,399
don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on

1961
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:31,680
the news or give a standard hot take. I'll bring

1962
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,479
my decades of studying this industry and talking one on

1963
01:33:34,479 --> 01:33:37,920
one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show,

1964
01:33:38,159 --> 01:33:41,359
so you understand not just what's happening, but the context

1965
01:33:41,359 --> 01:33:43,960
of why get ahead of the news, get ahead of

1966
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:48,479
the pack with racking worldwide only at PW Torch VIP.

1967
01:33:51,039 --> 01:33:56,399
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that that Rock probably feels that Sina

1968
01:33:56,479 --> 01:33:59,640
might be taking a little bit too much advantage of

1969
01:34:00,359 --> 01:34:06,399
the situation. I think that, you know, I think that

1970
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:08,920
Rock probably feels and this is the first I've heard

1971
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:11,039
of him being thin skin, but if that's the case,

1972
01:34:11,399 --> 01:34:13,960
then you know, you could kind of feel a little

1973
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:16,720
attacked by going I came back, you know, I told

1974
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:19,159
the ww Universe. I was here, and now you're going

1975
01:34:19,239 --> 01:34:21,600
and trying to tell everybody that I'm thinking I'm phony

1976
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:24,239
and that I'm not back. But I also feel like

1977
01:34:25,279 --> 01:34:28,640
Rock is treating this like it's a movie gig. You know, Okay,

1978
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:31,479
sure I could go to the premiere party or I cannot.

1979
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,520
I mean, I don't need to say, you know, with

1980
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,079
the WrestleMania Hall of Fame, you paid me to come

1981
01:34:37,159 --> 01:34:40,399
to guest hosts at WrestleMania, and you're paying me to

1982
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:43,800
come wrestle at next year's WrestleMania. I don't need to

1983
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:46,880
be there for raw. If we agreed on you know,

1984
01:34:47,079 --> 01:34:50,800
six seven, eight dates leading up to WrestleMania, great, I'll

1985
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:53,159
be there for it. I'm not obligated to be there

1986
01:34:53,159 --> 01:34:55,239
for the rest. And you know what, But that's also

1987
01:34:55,279 --> 01:34:59,439
the difference with the new sort of feel of the

1988
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:04,039
wrestling industry, where it's not about you know, this is

1989
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:06,680
your life and you've got to treat it with respect,

1990
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:08,319
and you've got to respect everybody.

1991
01:35:08,359 --> 01:35:08,840
Speaker 3: You've got to.

1992
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 9: Respect the business. Those people aren't are few and far

1993
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:17,039
between now and now people look at this and go,

1994
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:19,800
this is my job. I show up to my job.

1995
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:22,800
I do what I gotta do I go home, and

1996
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:25,720
it's not. I am a wrestler and my life is

1997
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:29,079
based around protecting and making sure that this business is

1998
01:35:29,079 --> 01:35:31,520
seen in you know, whatever light we want to show it.

1999
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,399
I do what I do. I make movies. I probably

2000
01:35:34,399 --> 01:35:36,600
went back to WWE so that I can connect with

2001
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:40,039
that audience again and get and bring back that popularity

2002
01:35:40,079 --> 01:35:42,880
that I had when I did Scorpion King. And I

2003
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:45,319
think that he thinks that seen us taking advantage of

2004
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:47,520
the fact that that's just kind of how Rock is

2005
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:50,399
viewing it without coming out and saying, look, Rock is

2006
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:53,239
doing this to get popular again, or Rock is doing

2007
01:35:53,239 --> 01:35:55,399
this to connect with you guys again. He can't say that,

2008
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:57,640
but he can find other ways to say it. And

2009
01:35:57,680 --> 01:35:59,880
I think that's that's coming back at Rock. And I

2010
01:36:00,039 --> 01:36:02,920
think that Seena probably smiles and looks and goes, Okay,

2011
01:36:03,279 --> 01:36:05,039
you said we could go at each other. I'm going

2012
01:36:05,119 --> 01:36:07,199
at you and it's bugging you. And I think he

2013
01:36:07,239 --> 01:36:09,680
probably just smiles about it. But I think that's probably

2014
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,039
where Randy Orton's comments come from, you know.

2015
01:36:12,239 --> 01:36:14,720
Speaker 3: And Raddy Orton and Reddy Orton in an interview with

2016
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:18,800
KUPD in Phoenix, a couple of weeks back talked about Rock,

2017
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:21,199
and he said that when that the Rock tried to

2018
01:36:21,199 --> 01:36:24,159
get him in trouble before WrestleMania earlier this year, Orton

2019
01:36:24,199 --> 01:36:27,039
said that he gave his opinion on Rock during immediate interview.

2020
01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:29,439
He said he wasn't buying Rock's return speech about coming

2021
01:36:29,439 --> 01:36:31,720
back and never leaving again. Orton said that he heard

2022
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:34,439
he quote got in trouble with NSAC Man through John Laurenidis,

2023
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:36,399
who pulled him aside and told him about it. And

2024
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:38,319
Orton said that Rock called the opfice and claimed that

2025
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:41,840
Orton buried him and Triple H in the interview, and

2026
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,079
Orton thinks Rock threw Hunter's name into the mix to

2027
01:36:44,079 --> 01:36:47,000
get management to pay attention even though he actually didn't

2028
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,560
Despairge Hunter in the interview. That's just one of you know,

2029
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:51,479
a number of ancots I've heard over the years about

2030
01:36:51,560 --> 01:36:54,000
Rock being quote image conscious, which I think is a

2031
01:36:54,039 --> 01:36:56,640
euphemism for kind of thin skinned, and you know, worried

2032
01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:58,319
about his image of that kind of thing, and for

2033
01:36:58,399 --> 01:37:00,319
good reason. I mean, he's you know, give the world

2034
01:37:00,359 --> 01:37:02,760
that he's in and the things he's experienced. So Orton,

2035
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:06,560
you know, really has gone after after Rock, and you

2036
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:10,800
know he Orton said, uh that I'm met better than

2037
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:12,920
Sena in the ring, but on the mic he's light

2038
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,920
years ahead of all of us, including the Rock. So

2039
01:37:16,079 --> 01:37:18,159
Orton's been a big for Postina and I I do,

2040
01:37:18,239 --> 01:37:20,439
I mean, I really sense that there's an us against

2041
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:22,880
them that's seen us playing into on the microphone to

2042
01:37:23,079 --> 01:37:25,000
rally the current locker room. And I think Seena's a

2043
01:37:25,079 --> 01:37:27,760
vessel for McMahon to an extent. Rock left the family.

2044
01:37:28,199 --> 01:37:30,039
He left to go to movies and there were contentious

2045
01:37:30,039 --> 01:37:32,319
moments and and you know, Vince's a businessman. He wants

2046
01:37:32,319 --> 01:37:34,279
to bring Rock back, but that doesn't mean there's not

2047
01:37:34,319 --> 01:37:36,479
resentment over the fact that Rock didn't make himself more

2048
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:41,479
available all the time. So yeah, so Sina, you know,

2049
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:44,640
I kind of see this is Sena's Sena is venting

2050
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:47,560
for McMahon. Casina wants to keep mcmahappy. I think McMahon

2051
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:51,199
Sena want the locker room to unite around some force,

2052
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:55,199
and that force is Rock who left us and uh

2053
01:37:55,279 --> 01:37:57,359
and says he's never leaving, but he really left and

2054
01:37:57,359 --> 01:37:59,159
he's not here. So I think there it's fair. I

2055
01:37:59,159 --> 01:38:01,199
love talking about because there so many things that work

2056
01:38:01,239 --> 01:38:03,680
in this and knowing, you know, knowing the people like

2057
01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:05,880
you do, and uh, you know, knowing them as I

2058
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:07,319
do in my ways of knowing them.

2059
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:07,760
Speaker 7: Uh.

2060
01:38:08,199 --> 01:38:10,760
Speaker 3: It is. Uh, it's a fascinating thing to watch play out.

2061
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:12,760
I'm looking forward to the next eight months.

2062
01:38:13,159 --> 01:38:14,000
Speaker 9: Yep, agreed.

2063
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:18,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. So Rock hin said that he's gonna be

2064
01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:22,319
at Survivor Series in that interview. What comes to mind

2065
01:38:22,319 --> 01:38:24,720
if you're sitting at a booking meeting, John and you know,

2066
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:26,720
a writer's meeting, and they say, yeah, let's come up

2067
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:29,359
with something for Rock and Sina to do at Survivor Series.

2068
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:31,439
We want to sell the pay per view, but we

2069
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:33,640
can't give away the match, and we want that paper

2070
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:35,840
to make people more excited about WrestleMania. Did you just

2071
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,359
rerun WrestleMania hype and what happened at Mania? Or you know,

2072
01:38:39,399 --> 01:38:41,439
put you on the spot here, But anything brainstorm Whites

2073
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:42,760
come to mind that you would do at that show.

2074
01:38:44,399 --> 01:38:48,520
Speaker 9: Uh, okay, I would need what I would usually do

2075
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:52,439
is you know, let's say Brian or Vince or whoever

2076
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:56,000
it may be, says, look, we need ideas for for

2077
01:38:56,159 --> 01:39:00,199
Rock Sena at Survivor Series. To me, that's something it's

2078
01:39:00,279 --> 01:39:02,399
so big that I off the top of my head,

2079
01:39:02,439 --> 01:39:04,560
it'd be hard for him to give you anything worth

2080
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:07,800
I guess pitching. You know, if we're sitting in a

2081
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:10,760
booking meeting me and you right now, it's something I

2082
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:12,720
want to really think about. But you know the other

2083
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:16,359
thing I would immediately throw out is if we got

2084
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:18,640
Rock and again, I know it's not as easy as

2085
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:20,720
you know, with his schedule or whatever, to say, well,

2086
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:22,800
why don't you come this day? It's instead of this day.

2087
01:39:23,239 --> 01:39:26,560
I think if you want to start building towards Russemania, fine,

2088
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:29,800
let's get Survivor series, Let's think of something. But this

2089
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:31,760
is the money in the bank. Is a perfect time

2090
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:34,600
for Rock. You know, there is a chance and it

2091
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:37,760
fits perfectly into the story. You're gonna tell me that

2092
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:42,760
my chance to beat up this guy John Cena who

2093
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:45,920
thinks he's maybe the greatest of all time when I am,

2094
01:39:46,359 --> 01:39:48,399
or whatever it is that they end up going with

2095
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:51,119
as far as the beast, this is my time to

2096
01:39:51,159 --> 01:39:55,000
make sure that that doesn't go away, because if Sam

2097
01:39:55,039 --> 01:39:59,239
Bunk walks out WWE Champion, there's no John Cena versus

2098
01:39:59,319 --> 01:40:03,439
Rocket Wrestlem. But Rock make sure that you know WWE

2099
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:06,520
is intact and John Cena is for employed, and the

2100
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:10,119
WWE title stays with John Cena, and I think that

2101
01:40:10,119 --> 01:40:12,840
that's where we want to kind of bring that story

2102
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:15,359
back up front, and then at Survivor Series we just

2103
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:17,960
kind of figure out, you know, first, I'd like to

2104
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:20,439
know what he's even happening in Survivor Series. To just

2105
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:25,000
say Cina and and rock this without knowing where where

2106
01:40:25,039 --> 01:40:29,239
they see Sina, you know, on that card, was a

2107
01:40:29,279 --> 01:40:31,439
little hard for me, but that's what I would bitch.

2108
01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:33,199
I'd say, why not get him at Money in the

2109
01:40:33,239 --> 01:40:36,760
Bank and have him saved with WWE and in a sense,

2110
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:39,319
you know too, do you want me to go one

2111
01:40:39,319 --> 01:40:42,600
step further? I personally think Sena's got to be heel

2112
01:40:42,600 --> 01:40:45,920
at WrestleMania, and I'm sure people disagree, and I'd like

2113
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,760
to get your take on it, but I would have

2114
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:51,039
rock safe Sina in a way that almost felt like

2115
01:40:51,359 --> 01:40:55,880
Fida maybe might have won that match without the rock.

2116
01:40:56,319 --> 01:40:58,920
And then Sina turns heel on the Rock. Maybe it's

2117
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:01,199
the next night or maybe the next night he comes

2118
01:41:01,199 --> 01:41:04,960
out on Raw and he says, Hey, meet me at

2119
01:41:05,119 --> 01:41:07,479
Survivor Series or whatever the case may be. However you

2120
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:11,279
promote that and you know you and you have Seena

2121
01:41:11,359 --> 01:41:14,920
turned heel on Rock at Survivor Series. Maybe it's the

2122
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:17,520
contract signing, I hate that, but something along the lines

2123
01:41:17,560 --> 01:41:20,640
where you get those two guys in the ring at

2124
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:23,479
the same time. You know, maybe you promote let's do

2125
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:26,640
a press conference, let's do something. But Sena turns heel

2126
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:31,039
and then you've got heal Sena going against babyface Rock

2127
01:41:31,119 --> 01:41:34,079
at at WrestleMania. And I'm curious what your thoughts on

2128
01:41:34,359 --> 01:41:37,000
if you were to turn Sena heel for WrestleManias.

2129
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:41,680
Speaker 3: You know, it's to me the there's obvious upside. You

2130
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:44,000
turn Scena heel and a lot of people are going

2131
01:41:44,079 --> 01:41:45,960
to feel like they've got full on permission to boo

2132
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:49,880
this guy. And they've got babyfaces now that you can

2133
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:52,039
get over just by virtue of John Cena wrestling them.

2134
01:41:52,439 --> 01:41:54,720
Because the audience, you know, the fans who don't like

2135
01:41:54,760 --> 01:41:56,880
Sena have had this tough choice. You know, do I

2136
01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,159
really want to pay to see Alberta Doria or miss

2137
01:41:59,359 --> 01:42:01,279
or you know what obnoxious heel? Do I really want

2138
01:42:01,319 --> 01:42:03,199
to pay to see him and cheer him against Sena?

2139
01:42:03,479 --> 01:42:06,199
Sometimes the heels just weren't appealing enough where you know,

2140
01:42:06,239 --> 01:42:08,159
they just kind of said, all right, well, you know

2141
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:09,720
that's just not a match that's going to make a

2142
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:12,279
difference for me either way. You turn see a heel

2143
01:42:12,359 --> 01:42:16,600
and you put him against babyfaces who appeal to the

2144
01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:19,479
fans who have been booing Seena all along, You no

2145
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:22,800
doubt open up you open up a lot of options.

2146
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:26,880
The problem is who are those baby faces? You know?

2147
01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:31,159
Do you bring Randy ortover from SmackDown? You know, Christian's

2148
01:42:31,199 --> 01:42:32,640
not going to be a top baby face. You've worked

2149
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:37,560
against Sena a big show, doesn't probably not at this stage?

2150
01:42:38,119 --> 01:42:40,119
Do you turn miss baby face? Is that too soon?

2151
01:42:40,319 --> 01:42:42,720
And it doesn't feel too much like just flipping a

2152
01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:46,439
few that was familiar to us? Alex Riley isn't ready

2153
01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:50,000
for that. I mean, you know, it's like it's not

2154
01:42:50,119 --> 01:42:53,279
a great long list of babyface, is it? Ray mysterio?

2155
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:57,399
Do you do that? I guess that's maybe. So that's

2156
01:42:57,399 --> 01:42:59,199
my problem is who are the faces to face Sina

2157
01:42:59,199 --> 01:43:01,159
if he turns heel? Because you need to have that,

2158
01:43:01,239 --> 01:43:02,840
you need to have a couple, you know, two three

2159
01:43:02,920 --> 01:43:03,880
main babyfaces.

2160
01:43:04,279 --> 01:43:05,720
Speaker 9: Well let me let me let me put it to

2161
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:08,960
you like this way. And this is just from like

2162
01:43:09,119 --> 01:43:12,199
say a storytelling standpoint. Now, I could be completely off

2163
01:43:12,199 --> 01:43:15,239
on this, and maybe if I sat down and said, okay,

2164
01:43:15,279 --> 01:43:18,840
I got to get from uh, you know, uh August

2165
01:43:19,079 --> 01:43:23,239
to April in pay per view buys and all that stuff,

2166
01:43:23,279 --> 01:43:24,840
maybe when you when you break it down like that,

2167
01:43:25,239 --> 01:43:28,479
Sure it may be tough, but I feel, let's play

2168
01:43:28,520 --> 01:43:31,920
into the scenario that you're given. Well, want the creative buzz.

2169
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:35,560
If we turned Sena heel, Okay, who are the baby faces? Well,

2170
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:40,319
maybe you put the WWE in a position storyline standpoint

2171
01:43:40,359 --> 01:43:44,800
that goes, we don't have anybody but maybe these heels.

2172
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:48,640
So you don't have to necessarily have these guys turn

2173
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:51,520
and go, oh, save the WWE. You have these guys

2174
01:43:51,600 --> 01:43:55,039
embraced Sena. You know, you have the mid and Alberto

2175
01:43:55,079 --> 01:43:57,920
del Rio and whoever else may be there, embrace Sena

2176
01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:00,720
and go great, you've seen the light. You're you're evil. Well,

2177
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:04,439
you know however you would portray him, and Sena just

2178
01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:06,439
goes through everyone. Well who's first up?

2179
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:07,239
Speaker 7: Okay, well it's.

2180
01:44:07,079 --> 01:44:10,119
Speaker 9: Ready Masterial, he's the pop guy. He goes through him,

2181
01:44:10,439 --> 01:44:13,560
he goes through Riley, he goes through Morrison, and almost

2182
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:17,479
like that Triple H from early two thousands. But in

2183
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:21,439
this case, you're actually saying, yes, this is what he's doing.

2184
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:24,560
He is dominating everybody. No one is able to stop

2185
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:26,199
this fight. Is it WrestleMania?

2186
01:44:26,319 --> 01:44:26,520
Speaker 6: Yet?

2187
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:30,279
Speaker 9: We need Ross? You eat Doring, Randy Orton over, and

2188
01:44:30,319 --> 01:44:33,640
you have him go through Randy Orton. Now you finally go,

2189
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:36,640
oh my gosh, what are we going to do? Now

2190
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:42,000
you're at WrestleMania. I even think at WrestleMania you could

2191
01:44:42,039 --> 01:44:46,199
have John Sena beat the Rock and you go, oh

2192
01:44:46,279 --> 01:44:49,439
my gosh, well what is going on here? And then

2193
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:53,600
that's when you have a guy like Miz who, let's

2194
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:56,439
say gets money in the bank here and he cashes

2195
01:44:56,560 --> 01:45:00,479
in that night at WrestleMania and you turn him babyface

2196
01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:02,760
where you're not doing the double switch. You're taking your

2197
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:06,239
time with it. But that's when people are waiting and waiting.

2198
01:45:06,239 --> 01:45:08,199
And I'm not saying that ms has this presence that

2199
01:45:08,239 --> 01:45:10,640
people go, that's gonna be the guy that's gonna beat

2200
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:13,479
John Cena. But I think that's the guy that people

2201
01:45:13,479 --> 01:45:16,000
would get behind. And I think that you have him

2202
01:45:16,039 --> 01:45:18,199
cash in, you have him beat John Cena for the

2203
01:45:18,279 --> 01:45:21,279
w WE title and and and you go with with

2204
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:25,600
miss your top babyfase and hope by that time you've

2205
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:30,039
built guys like Kofi or Riley or maybe you turn

2206
01:45:30,159 --> 01:45:33,119
swat or in that time being and and you build

2207
01:45:33,239 --> 01:45:37,000
these this new crop of babyfaces and and and go

2208
01:45:37,159 --> 01:45:37,640
that route.

2209
01:45:38,279 --> 01:45:38,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but.

2210
01:45:40,399 --> 01:45:42,800
Speaker 9: I can't even remember the original subject that we were

2211
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:43,199
talking about.

2212
01:45:43,199 --> 01:45:45,359
Speaker 3: Thinking it was Survivor Series and how we present Scena

2213
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:47,640
Rock and that would be you know, that would be

2214
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:51,479
an opportunity John to turn sena heel at Survivor Series.

2215
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:53,840
You could have Rocks show up and and it could

2216
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:55,479
be under the guise of what he talked about in

2217
01:45:55,479 --> 01:45:59,159
this promo, which in his internet promo shoot or otherwise.

2218
01:45:59,199 --> 01:46:00,680
And and where he's that I want to go back

2219
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:02,840
to where I'll start it, you know, fifteen years ago,

2220
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:05,600
through the day or you know whatever, to the weekend.

2221
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:09,359
He made his debut at that building, and so you

2222
01:46:09,439 --> 01:46:12,239
play off of that. And it's supposed to be something

2223
01:46:12,279 --> 01:46:15,119
about the Rock. You know, it's a ceremony, it's an acknowledgement,

2224
01:46:15,119 --> 01:46:17,439
this family's gonna be there. He's going to accept you know,

2225
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:22,079
some sort of a honorary award from you know, MSc

2226
01:46:22,279 --> 01:46:25,319
or something like that, and Sina spoils it and he

2227
01:46:25,359 --> 01:46:27,319
does so in a way that's healis and that's kind

2228
01:46:27,319 --> 01:46:29,680
of you know the moment again. You can brainstorm one

2229
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:31,720
hundred ideas and come up with with you know, eighty

2230
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:33,520
five of them better than that one off the top

2231
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:34,720
of your head if you just sit down and kind

2232
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:35,760
of come up with it. But there could be a

2233
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:39,319
scenario where Rock is there under different pretense and Sena

2234
01:46:39,399 --> 01:46:41,800
injects himself and that's how the heel turn happens.

2235
01:46:43,560 --> 01:46:45,560
Speaker 1: iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native

2236
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:49,319
podcast app on your iPhone, you can unlock our commercial

2237
01:46:49,319 --> 01:46:53,159
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2238
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:55,840
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2239
01:46:55,880 --> 01:46:58,279
says PW Torch VIP on it. Click on that. There's

2240
01:46:58,279 --> 01:47:01,359
some free samples of VIP shows and you can unlock

2241
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:05,000
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01:47:08,159 --> 01:47:10,880
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01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:13,159
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2245
01:47:13,199 --> 01:47:15,760
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01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:19,359
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01:47:19,359 --> 01:47:22,479
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01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:25,600
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2250
01:47:28,319 --> 01:47:31,640
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2251
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:34,199
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2252
01:47:36,039 --> 01:47:38,800
Speaker 9: Right, I mean, I shoot, I used to always be

2253
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:41,199
one to say, let's go as big as we possibly

2254
01:47:41,239 --> 01:47:44,399
can and scale down from there. Have the Mayor of

2255
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:47,800
New York City legitimately give Lock the key to the

2256
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:50,079
city and he's going to present it averties. I mean,

2257
01:47:50,279 --> 01:47:53,279
you could have go on here and then all of

2258
01:47:53,319 --> 01:47:56,640
a sudden here comes Sina and maybe Sena sits here

2259
01:47:56,640 --> 01:47:59,720
and he goes, this is all great, and I'm here

2260
01:47:59,840 --> 01:48:03,319
to give you something to the right where it started

2261
01:48:03,359 --> 01:48:05,880
and this that, and he just fall on, turns heel

2262
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:07,880
and I'm not talking about to gives them an AA.

2263
01:48:08,239 --> 01:48:12,199
You got to have him do something brutal to this guy.

2264
01:48:11,039 --> 01:48:14,279
And there you go and you go, I'm sick of it.

2265
01:48:14,359 --> 01:48:16,359
I'm sick of rock, I'm sick of these people. And

2266
01:48:16,399 --> 01:48:21,199
I think that Sina, you know you if you were

2267
01:48:21,239 --> 01:48:26,800
trying to hate a girl, and that girl was just really,

2268
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:32,199
really really into a complete douchebag, and you knew him

2269
01:48:32,199 --> 01:48:34,680
for who he was. You know, he's a douchepeg. You

2270
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:36,760
know that he's going around and hooking up with other

2271
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:38,600
girls while he's trying to hook up with this girl

2272
01:48:38,640 --> 01:48:40,600
that you like, and you're trying to convince her. And

2273
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:42,119
every time you try to convince her and you go,

2274
01:48:42,239 --> 01:48:45,640
this guy is stupid or whatever, and she doesn't fall

2275
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:48,479
for it. Well, one time that that girl finds out.

2276
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:51,399
Now you're sitting there going and then the guy goes

2277
01:48:51,439 --> 01:48:53,520
to her face and says, yeah, I did it. You

2278
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:55,479
hate that guy even more. And I think that that's

2279
01:48:55,520 --> 01:48:57,880
what Sina's heel turn needs to be. And I think

2280
01:48:57,920 --> 01:49:00,199
that when Sina turns heel, he needs to sit there

2281
01:49:00,239 --> 01:49:05,800
and he goes, all you people that brewed me, how

2282
01:49:05,840 --> 01:49:07,600
do I explain this in the in the way of

2283
01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:11,000
pitching it like this? I put a smile on my

2284
01:49:11,119 --> 01:49:13,600
face and I was the face of the WWE, and

2285
01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:16,560
I did everything that was asked of me for money.

2286
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:19,600
I have more money than I could ever imagine right

2287
01:49:19,640 --> 01:49:21,760
now and I and I did it all because of you.

2288
01:49:21,960 --> 01:49:24,359
So I thank you. But you know what, every time

2289
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:26,720
you bowed me when I came out, that ate at me,

2290
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:28,680
But I kept a smile on my face because I

2291
01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:31,479
was collecting money for you by showing up that night.

2292
01:49:32,359 --> 01:49:35,279
But I think where you get these these older audience

2293
01:49:35,319 --> 01:49:38,479
are the people that are anti Sena to almost want

2294
01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:42,039
to protect these young kids now and go, you fooled them.

2295
01:49:42,079 --> 01:49:44,880
You never fooled me, but you fooled them, and now

2296
01:49:45,239 --> 01:49:47,359
I hate you even more. And then they go to

2297
01:49:47,399 --> 01:49:49,720
these little kids and I told you, I told you

2298
01:49:49,760 --> 01:49:52,760
that guy this and that, and now you got everybody

2299
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:54,840
just attacking this guy going. You thought you were going

2300
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:56,960
to get one over on me, and the little kids

2301
01:49:57,000 --> 01:49:59,319
think that you did you mean to tell me when

2302
01:49:59,319 --> 01:50:01,960
I bought that rich the band that when you came

2303
01:50:02,039 --> 01:50:04,640
and you know, signed it or gave me one or

2304
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:07,359
threw the shirt, you were just throwing it at a

2305
01:50:07,399 --> 01:50:10,560
dollar sign. That's all I was to you. And I

2306
01:50:10,600 --> 01:50:12,640
think that that's where you go with Sina and and

2307
01:50:13,039 --> 01:50:16,000
kind of even look like you embraced Rock. You know,

2308
01:50:16,319 --> 01:50:19,039
you loved you hated Rock when he first got here,

2309
01:50:19,359 --> 01:50:23,840
you hated me, and for some reason, you just embraced

2310
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:27,319
this guy like he is everything that you could ever want,

2311
01:50:27,880 --> 01:50:30,680
but you never embraced me. And all I did was

2312
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:32,920
try and try and try. But you know what I'm

2313
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:35,680
done trying. You want to hate me, go ahead, hate me.

2314
01:50:36,039 --> 01:50:36,960
I want you to hate me.

2315
01:50:40,319 --> 01:50:41,600
Speaker 3: Let me move on to one of the subjects before

2316
01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:43,000
I let you go, because I know we're runn along here,

2317
01:50:43,159 --> 01:50:45,439
and that is uh. You alluded to it last week

2318
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:46,560
and I should have followed up on it, or you

2319
01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:49,439
mentioned last week at Cosky taking over for Michael Hayes

2320
01:50:49,479 --> 01:50:52,079
on SmackDown. What what's your take on that situation and

2321
01:50:52,079 --> 01:50:53,920
what do you know about the circumstances.

2322
01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:58,600
Speaker 9: I don't know what the situation with Michael is. I'm

2323
01:50:59,159 --> 01:51:02,520
wondering it could be one of two things. One they

2324
01:51:02,600 --> 01:51:05,159
just felt like I mean, I remember when I was there,

2325
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:10,079
the creative process was looked down on as far as

2326
01:51:10,119 --> 01:51:12,319
SmackDown goes. So I wonder if it just got to

2327
01:51:12,359 --> 01:51:15,800
the point where Ben said someone news got to be

2328
01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:18,880
in here, or if they felt like Michael was better

2329
01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:22,840
suited in a different role and Ed was the next

2330
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:25,720
guy in line. But you know, like I've stated to

2331
01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:28,640
you and I've stated on my website and all that stuff,

2332
01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:31,319
I think Ed is a great guy. I've got nothing

2333
01:51:31,359 --> 01:51:33,760
bad to say about Ed. I think he's a creative guy.

2334
01:51:34,119 --> 01:51:36,800
I think that he is someone who's been there for

2335
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:40,439
ten years. And if you're looking for a spark in

2336
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:43,760
creative or if you're looking for something different, you're not

2337
01:51:43,880 --> 01:51:45,760
going to get it by a guy who's been pitching

2338
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:48,800
you ideas for ten years, because that guy is so

2339
01:51:49,079 --> 01:51:52,119
deep in your philosophy of what you want and what

2340
01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:57,119
he believes should be the product, that you're just going

2341
01:51:57,159 --> 01:52:00,000
to get exactly what Michael Hayes is going to give you.

2342
01:52:00,600 --> 01:52:04,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. I just think the structure

2343
01:52:04,439 --> 01:52:06,920
is such where, yeah, it is going to be what

2344
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:09,199
it is. And I don't know that you know, this

2345
01:52:09,239 --> 01:52:12,800
isn't like, you know, some rebellious thinker from the outside

2346
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:15,279
with the track record got handed the keys to the

2347
01:52:15,359 --> 01:52:18,199
number two show. This is somebody who's within the machinery

2348
01:52:18,279 --> 01:52:22,079
got handed a structure to fill out, and to fill

2349
01:52:22,079 --> 01:52:24,560
it out with a certain person's vision in mind. And

2350
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:26,520
you know, I don't think they're really open to a

2351
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:29,039
lot of major new ideas, you know.

2352
01:52:29,119 --> 01:52:33,279
Speaker 9: But that's the funny thing, because this wants different, he

2353
01:52:33,439 --> 01:52:36,319
wants new ideas. He wants someone to walk in there

2354
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:41,920
and be different. The problem is, and regardless of if

2355
01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:44,399
people think my ideas are good or not, it doesn't matter.

2356
01:52:44,600 --> 01:52:47,560
My ideas were different than than than everybody else on

2357
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:49,520
Creative And there's another guy there, and I don't want

2358
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:51,880
to mention names or anything, but there's another guy there

2359
01:52:52,119 --> 01:52:57,600
that has different ideas, and our ideas were the second

2360
01:52:57,600 --> 01:52:59,960
thing we pitched him. Whether this guy pitched to Mike

2361
01:53:00,479 --> 01:53:02,920
or I pitched it to Brian, it was just you

2362
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:05,319
just you push the train right off the tracks before

2363
01:53:05,479 --> 01:53:10,239
and go over with And unfortunately, unless you are put

2364
01:53:10,279 --> 01:53:12,600
in a position where you're sitting with Vince one on

2365
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:14,560
one or as we're in a production meeting and you

2366
01:53:14,640 --> 01:53:16,479
want to stand up for yourself and you want to

2367
01:53:16,479 --> 01:53:19,199
pitch something, which we did at times and it got

2368
01:53:19,239 --> 01:53:22,239
over and Vince used it. But you have these people

2369
01:53:22,279 --> 01:53:25,399
who the Brian's, the ed, the Michaels, who have been

2370
01:53:25,439 --> 01:53:27,520
there for ten years, and that's what they want to

2371
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:30,479
put on TV, and if it's not something that they

2372
01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:33,039
want to do, it's not going to filter through them

2373
01:53:33,159 --> 01:53:36,039
up to Vince. So Vince thinks, wow, I got this

2374
01:53:36,159 --> 01:53:39,079
team philosophy, and these guys are bland and they're not

2375
01:53:39,199 --> 01:53:41,680
doing anything, and they're so close to the product that

2376
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:44,960
he doesn't get that there's people there that do have

2377
01:53:45,039 --> 01:53:47,760
different ideas, that want to try something different. And I

2378
01:53:47,800 --> 01:53:51,239
think that he sees that when people step up and

2379
01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:54,199
pitch step to him one on one or pitched up

2380
01:53:54,199 --> 01:53:56,880
to him in production meetings when there isn't Brian just

2381
01:53:57,560 --> 01:54:00,880
switching for himself. I think he sees that, But then

2382
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:02,880
he only sees glinches. Oh, okay, that was you had

2383
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:05,279
a good idea today, not knowing that you have a

2384
01:54:05,319 --> 01:54:08,920
good idea every week, but you're not. It's not getting

2385
01:54:08,960 --> 01:54:10,840
to then, And a lot of the time you can't

2386
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:14,079
go straight to Vince or even in a production meeting,

2387
01:54:14,119 --> 01:54:16,399
you kind of keep your mouth shut sometimes because you go,

2388
01:54:17,159 --> 01:54:20,359
I know, I pitched this already. Know Brian said, no,

2389
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:22,840
it's not happening, and he gave every excuse in the

2390
01:54:22,840 --> 01:54:25,319
book why Vince wouldn't like it. If I pitch this,

2391
01:54:26,079 --> 01:54:29,159
I'm making my life miserable. So do I care that

2392
01:54:29,319 --> 01:54:30,920
much that I'm going to pitch it to Vince and

2393
01:54:31,000 --> 01:54:33,399
maybe it gets on TV in order to make my

2394
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:36,199
life miserable? No, so you don't say anything.

2395
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:40,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So so you're not. The short answer is

2396
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:44,960
to summarize, uh, don't look for anything radically different on SmackDown.

2397
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:46,279
Knowing Ed and knowing the system.

2398
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:51,800
Speaker 9: Well, look, you you've watched ECW, you've watched NXT. That's

2399
01:54:51,840 --> 01:54:55,399
what you're getting with SmackDown Superstars. You're gonna see a

2400
01:54:55,439 --> 01:54:57,239
lot of these and I think you already are the

2401
01:54:57,279 --> 01:55:01,319
ECW and the NXT. Alum put In prom in his

2402
01:55:01,439 --> 01:55:03,720
positions because I think he has a connection and if

2403
01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:07,800
he's guys, those are his guys. And I think again,

2404
01:55:08,279 --> 01:55:11,199
I told you this before in our long torch talk.

2405
01:55:11,760 --> 01:55:14,479
You have to have someone backing you. I back Swagger,

2406
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:17,439
I back to him, his ibag DEBIOSSI Drew guys like that,

2407
01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:21,079
and I'll be there and I'll fight for these guys.

2408
01:55:21,239 --> 01:55:23,319
Well Ed is going to fight for the guys that

2409
01:55:23,399 --> 01:55:25,479
he wants, and I think that you're seeing it's going

2410
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:27,279
to be the ECWNXD guys.

2411
01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:31,159
Speaker 3: Yeah. So actually that is a good takeaway from that question,

2412
01:55:31,840 --> 01:55:34,079
and that's a good point to make. He you know, familiarity,

2413
01:55:34,159 --> 01:55:36,920
knowing the strengths and weaknesses, and then being his guys.

2414
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:40,239
He's invested in them, and so maybe it will if

2415
01:55:40,239 --> 01:55:42,000
we're to expect any kind of a difference in the

2416
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:43,720
next two to three to four months. It might be

2417
01:55:44,680 --> 01:55:47,039
certain people that that Michael as might not have thought

2418
01:55:47,039 --> 01:55:49,640
to push or paid attention to, or knowing how what

2419
01:55:49,680 --> 01:55:51,960
their strengths and weaknesses are, and really felt a personal

2420
01:55:51,960 --> 01:55:54,079
connection to want to see him succeed. We might see

2421
01:55:54,079 --> 01:55:55,479
that with that with some new guys.

2422
01:55:56,199 --> 01:55:58,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, if you want, yeah, if you want to talk

2423
01:55:58,720 --> 01:56:03,560
about change, I think that you'll see. You know, I

2424
01:56:03,600 --> 01:56:04,399
think Wade.

2425
01:56:04,119 --> 01:56:06,239
Speaker 3: Barrett, no matter what, would have been sort of a.

2426
01:56:06,199 --> 01:56:09,359
Speaker 9: Michael or a Ed guy. I think he would have

2427
01:56:09,359 --> 01:56:11,319
been a Brian guy too, because he's a Vince guy.

2428
01:56:11,359 --> 01:56:14,119
And I think that I think Michael. Here's the difference

2429
01:56:14,159 --> 01:56:18,319
that you'll see. I think Michael booked for Vince. I

2430
01:56:18,319 --> 01:56:23,239
think Ed books for what he likes, but he also

2431
01:56:24,760 --> 01:56:28,039
everyone books for Vince. But I think that Michael essentially

2432
01:56:28,319 --> 01:56:30,600
who wrote in the limos with Vince, who flew on

2433
01:56:30,600 --> 01:56:33,119
the private jet, knew just exactly what Vince wanted, and

2434
01:56:33,119 --> 01:56:36,079
he'd sit down, he goes, what's everybody's ideas, this, this, this,

2435
01:56:36,119 --> 01:56:38,039
and this, Well, Vince wants to do this, So this

2436
01:56:38,079 --> 01:56:39,720
is what we're doing. And that's just the way that

2437
01:56:39,800 --> 01:56:41,920
it was and then I think with Ed is I

2438
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:44,680
think Ed will bring his own ideas to the table,

2439
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:48,680
but I think that Vince will ultimately go yes, no, yes, no,

2440
01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:52,439
yes no, and Ed will go okay, yeah. You know,

2441
01:56:52,479 --> 01:56:55,640
at least we'll give the credit of Brillan. Where Brian

2442
01:56:55,800 --> 01:56:58,760
wanted something, Brian will fight Vince for it. It was

2443
01:56:59,000 --> 01:57:02,479
always the greatest things that he would fight for. But

2444
01:57:03,159 --> 01:57:07,079
at least Brian had the balls to fight for what

2445
01:57:07,159 --> 01:57:09,800
he wanted and to stand up for Vince and nobody

2446
01:57:09,880 --> 01:57:10,840
else really does that.

2447
01:57:12,600 --> 01:57:15,399
Speaker 3: Very good, John, appreciate the insight and all the analysis

2448
01:57:15,479 --> 01:57:18,000
last hour and fifteen minutes that you've been on with us,

2449
01:57:18,039 --> 01:57:20,279
and I look forward to talking to you after Money

2450
01:57:20,319 --> 01:57:21,880
in the Bank. It should be an interesting not just

2451
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:24,399
a pay per view, but but the raw afterwards. I

2452
01:57:24,399 --> 01:57:26,000
think we're gonna learn a lot about what Vince thought

2453
01:57:26,039 --> 01:57:28,600
about the ratings the last two weeks, and we're gonna

2454
01:57:28,600 --> 01:57:31,720
get some final answers on Ceampunk's future and get a

2455
01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:35,600
sense of what they have planned for SummerSlam. Final comment

2456
01:57:35,600 --> 01:57:37,520
from you before I signed off, what is your main

2457
01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:40,560
event prediction for SummerSlam? The top one or two matches?

2458
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:46,159
Speaker 9: Oh, I think you go if Punk is not there.

2459
01:57:46,359 --> 01:57:49,399
I think you go Scina del Ruyo. I think you

2460
01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:53,960
go orton either Seamus or Mark Henry. I'm gonna lean

2461
01:57:54,039 --> 01:57:59,640
on the Mark Henry side, and perhaps they might try

2462
01:57:59,640 --> 01:58:01,760
to get us celebrity involvement there. I know they've been

2463
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:04,079
trying to do that, and if they did, I think

2464
01:58:04,159 --> 01:58:06,199
maybe a dmis versus the celebrity.

2465
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:10,119
Speaker 3: Ah cool, excellent. Well we'll see how that turns out.

2466
01:58:10,880 --> 01:58:13,359
Thanks again, John, appreciate it all right, Laate, take care,

2467
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:15,520
take care. Thanks everybody for joining us. From on behalf

2468
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:17,960
of John Fermarini, this is Wade Keller thanking all the

2469
01:58:18,039 --> 01:58:20,000
VIP members for your support and signing off.

2470
01:58:29,279 --> 01:58:32,439
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