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Speaker 1: Joining us tonight is Jake Rattlesnake. I like to go

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by Lord Rattlesnake or Lord Jake most based chat of

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all the lands. You don't have an argument, present your

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people or shut up. Everyone with you is definitely inherently biased.

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So this is when debate becomes very interest. I do

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hear what you're saying, and I can see that you're

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dressed as a cat a dog. You said you'd like

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to go to play fetch? Well, yes, so how does

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that tie into your relationship?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: What are you looking for if you're a dog? Yeah,

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I think it's John Junior will be president one day.

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If I think I was a gambling and I put

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money on that.

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Speaker 2: Found of Rattlesnake TV.

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Speaker 3: Jake's yeah, what's up, Jay?

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Speaker 1: How are you man?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great, dude, Glad to be back with you.

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Speaker 1: So I a pleasure, always a pleasure. Let me just

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move these screens around here, because it looks like I'm

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looking away from you. You never know what it's going

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to like look like in on the stream as opposed

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to streamyard.

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Speaker 2: I don't blame you look in a way. If I

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look director, yea, you you're going to get scared. That's true,

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that's true. All right, that looks better.

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Speaker 1: All right, guys, We've got the one and only Jay

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Dyer with us today. We're going to be talking about

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the Candice Oone's looking glass, the ancient Sumerian technology that

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the CIA has got in their hands on, and Charlie

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Kirk being a time traveler. We're going to talk about

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that theory, the origins of that, where it comes from,

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and what have you. We're going to go into some geopolitics,

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regime change, Iran Venezuela, all these different types of operations

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that are happening in the US's current current position in

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global politics. Maybe a bit of global reserve currency, where

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jac is that going, the bricks nations, these types of things.

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We're going to go into a little bit of kabbala

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as well, and then I want to pick Jay's brains

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about apologetics, apologetics basics and debate skills and tactics and

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how we can sort of how we can all get

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better at that. So Jay, for those of you who

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haven't explored your work before, tell us a bit about

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where they can find you.

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Speaker 2: You can find me on my website Jason Alsils dot com.

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Everything there is kind of the central hub, including my

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archive of the last ten years of interviews, lectures, debates,

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comedic material. You can find me on the Alice Jone

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Show usually on Fridays, but today was didn't work out.

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But you can find me on YouTube under my name.

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You can find me on Instagram under my name, and

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you can find my books at my shop in the

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website at the website.

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Speaker 1: Very nice, very nice. So, I mean, we're talking about

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it off camera. I'm not sure how much you're able

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to divulge. But what have you got going on this year?

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Speaker 2: What looks like we may, if everything goes well, have

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a debate with the stuff on MOLINEU. That's going to

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be a round two on atheism. We might have some

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more whatever podcast debates in the near future. We might

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have some other big names that I can't name right

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at the moment. But beyond that, I think we're gonna

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have another big conference down in Florida, Orthodox conference with

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some big names when that gets all kind of inked.

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So it's gonna be I think, a popping off year.

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And thanks to you, we've had some clips popping off

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and all the clips channels are kind of expanding the

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audience so I think twenty twenty six is gonna be

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a big one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you think about the Tea list? It

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looks like there's a bit of a trend going now,

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people doing the various TIA lists of apologists and stuff

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like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate you guys giving me the props. Yeah,

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there's a couple of places I disagree with you guys.

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I disagreed with Trent Horn being kind of high up.

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I think I think Trent Horn's a little overrated. But

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otherwise I think you guys are pretty much spot on.

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And I was kind of surprised to see Jake the

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Muslim mata retard giving me such a high position.

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Speaker 1: What did he say?

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Speaker 2: He ranked me in the top tier as well, because

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I don't know why I figured he would have put

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me in the bottom. But we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if you look at it objectively, it's

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pretty much undernia blow this stage.

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Speaker 2: Though. Well you're too kind, dude.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but was there anyone that we were missing on there?

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Anyone that you particularly think is like a really good apologist?

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Speaker 2: Who? I mean, you contemporary? There's not that many, So

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I think I think you guys had most people that

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I could think of, but I mean I would have

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put Bonson probably on there, but I mean Bonson's technically

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not contemporary because he died in the nineties. But so otherwise,

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you guys, right.

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Speaker 1: Nice, all right, man. Well, one of the big news

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stories of this week has been Candice Owens's new theory. Now,

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look at the start, I was thinking, all right, she's

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like maybe poking a few holes here, and they're poking

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a few holes in FBI narratives. There was the text messages,

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there was the meetings at the in the Hamptons, these

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sorts of things that it definitely peaked my curiosity, and

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I thought that there was some decent investigative journalism going

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on there. But it seems like almost it's just it's

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gone in to this place now where it's like the

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fix has to be has to be fed, and there

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has to be a show, so there has to be

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a theory, so there has to be all this crazy

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stuff happening. And the most recent one is that the

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CIA has access to ancient Sumerian technology and a looking glass,

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and that Charlie kirk was privy to this, and that

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Charlie Kirk is was a time traveler and disturbed the

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continualm or something like that. So how did you see that? Like,

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am I getting that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I played multiple clips on my life dream last

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night where that is where she's taken it, and that's

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exactly what I predicted it. So I got into this

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maybe a month and a half or so ago because

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I didn't really have a whole lot of time to

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follow a lot of this, you know, Charlie Kirk speculation stuff.

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I kind of assumed that, you know, the government's probably

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not telling the truth. But and like you, I thought, well,

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this is probably, you know, some good questions to ask. Initially,

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and then the Plaine drama was a little weird. There

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was some holes in that that I saw Crowder's video

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I think did a good job critiquing. And then Alex

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did a critique too, back six weeks ago or four

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weeks ago, and then it just sort of got a

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little bit weirder. So I actually tuned in. I was like,

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I'm going to check out what her whole thesis is.

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I'm going to follow this. And then I noticed a

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pattern that something I've seen, you know, analyzing alt media

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and mainstream media for fifteen twenty years, is that people

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want to. It's almost like episodes of a drama where

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you have next week's episodes got to be up the anne,

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you know, even more extreme, more intense. It's like, you know,

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to X Files next week for the craziest Monster of

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the Week episode. So that's what it was. And I said, actually,

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I said, watch, what's going to happen is she's going

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to take it to the next level. It's going to

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be an even wilder yarn that she spends next month

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making all the so called conspiracy theorists look bad, making

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us look like a bunch of idiots. And that's unfortunately,

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where it's gone. Because I had a lot of high hopes,

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know when Canda started covering a lot of the Zioni stuff,

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I thought, maybe she's gonna be another voice, But unfortunately

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it's just gotten more and more absurd and she just

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quadruples down, doesn't walk it back at all. So that's

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where we're at. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what exactly is it? Because I know that

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there is a theory out there, or maybe there is

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some evidence out there that a part of the Middle

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Eastern Wars was I don't I don't know anything about it.

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I just know the surface level. I've maybe watched a

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video on it a few years ago or something that

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there was some sort of like ancient technology or whatever

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that was in Iraq. Is there any credence to whatsoever

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to this.

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Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of. I mean, you have sometimes

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people mentioning this kind of stuff. I think one of

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the Hillary emails mentioned.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's what I was. That's what I remember there was.

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Speaker 2: There was mention of something like you know relics or

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you know, ancient relics. But that doesn't mean that it

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was some sort of advanced a you know, history channel

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ancient aliens technology. I mean, it just gets so absurd

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and there's no evidence for any of that. So that's

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sort of the yarn that I think she was connecting

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it to. And you know, maybe a little bit of

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cern thrown in there for good measure. A lot of

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the you know, conspiracy classic type stuff, which is pretty

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fringe arena material, which you know, if she had sucked

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to critiquing Zionism and you know, calling out dB that

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kind of stuff, that might have been a little more grounded,

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but it's just gotten crazier and crazier in order to

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also in gonzo journalism. So I'll put herself into the story.

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So you'll notice all these stories also are about her.

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They're coming after her. Masad, you know, French intelligence is

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sending you know, their operatives, the Foreign Legion, the CIA

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was also there, and then there's tunnels, and it just

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keeps changing because every week has to be this cliffhanger

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that brings you to the next dopamine hit of the craziest,

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most wild speculation. And again, if you go and see

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her comments, it's all like soccer moms and Karen. We're

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not talking about rational you know, patriarchal logos, minded dudes

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that are that are working through the evidence. We're not

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talking about you know, guys that have been in Black

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Ops or veterans. Because most of those guys that comment

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on this say that she's full of it. And I

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think it's it's pretty obvious when you when you get

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into this, particularly with the Mitch Snows story, you know,

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his whole narrative crumbled. It was obvious that he was

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a grifter pretty quickly. You know, how does a guy

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who's a Black Ops green beret that get imprisoned in

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the garage by his wife who breaks his thumbs? I

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mean the stories are just preposterous. And then of course

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turns out that that guy was, you know, a psychopath,

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and all of his stories made absolutely no sense. You

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don't stumble onto for what Chuka and accidentally wander into

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a skiff and hear colonels planning an assassination doesn't work

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that way. And you know, anytime I had people defending

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this position, I asked them to call in, And anytime

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they would call in, I would ask them, I say, well,

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can you tell me a couple of books that you

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read on assassinations or anybody that you've interviewed. You know,

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I've interviewed the biggest hit man in the world multiple times,

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so I know a little bit about it. I'm not

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an expert on assassinations, and nobody has any knowledge of this.

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So it's it's all just like you know, wine mom

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gossip or something at the you know, at the at

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the soccer match, you know, want moms gossiping. So anyway,

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I'm rambling, but you get the idea, and then it

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just sort of got to the next level with you know,

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she's relying on her dreams, she's relying on Marion feast

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days that she had a prayer the day of the

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Immaculate Conception and blah blah blah, and that told her intuitively,

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and so it's's getting more and more absurd. And really

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the only question at this point I think is is

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it an actual sort of break in terms of psychosis?

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Is this schizophrenia? And I don't mean that in a

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mean vindictive way. I don't have any animosity really just

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being honest and objective in the analysis. Is it disinformation

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you know co Intel pro style stuff. Is she being

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handled or you know, is this just gripting? It could

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be any of those things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever seen that meme where it's like

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the woman looking in the mirror and then it just says,

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now go and make it about you. Kind of seems

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that way.

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Speaker 2: Then.

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Speaker 1: The reason one was that Charlie was you know, monitored

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from a young age and he was you know, prepped

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and molded to do this. And the Candice also, they

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tried to get her into the Smart School, the special

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Smart School, but she said no. So she's like really

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dodged a bullet with that.

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Speaker 2: So it is I was in the gay program. I

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could speak to that. I was in California in the

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gay program, Gifted Gate Gifted and Talented Education g A

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t E. That's what it stands for.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, these aid the gay program.

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Speaker 2: In fact, we did a Sam Hyde episode about that

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and we were calling it. We were calling it the

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Gate Program. So yeah, no, I wasn't in the gay program.

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I was in the street. I promise.

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Speaker 1: The check and I found with that.

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Speaker 2: I was in the gay program. We had to write

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like this, So yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if these days they had the

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gay program.

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Speaker 2: You know, that is what education is now, it's the

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gay program. So eight education literally is that? I mean yeah,

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I mean all it was was just, uh, you know,

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the sort of smart kids being kind of given their

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own curricula and put into other programs. Whether we did

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a lot of artistic stuff and not so much a

257
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lot of like roape memorization type stuff. So uh, there

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wasn't any MK ultra. There was no Professor X, you know,

259
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picking out new mutants or any of this nonsense. But

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that's the way that she's sort of blown this up

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based on again the popularity of this theory on TikTok. Right,

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So if you go to TikTok and you look up

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the gay program, In the last year, this wild narrative

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has been spun through a bunch of idiotic TikTokers that

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the Gate Program was the secret you know MK Ultra

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Stranger Things type thing where they're picking the smart kids

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and trying to turn them into literal X men, all

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of which is nonsense. That's not what the Gate program was.

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Speaker 1: And you would have looked into this stuff. I mean,

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in terms of the Skull and Bones societies and all

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these sorts of things, there is some level of grooming

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that goes on, like you said that was going If

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I was an elite and I was looking for people

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to come in and fill the cabinets of the various

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different countries that I wanted to to fill the cabinets off,

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like a Clauschwalb or something like that, then I would

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look at the IVY leagues and I'd be like, who's

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going to be the future leaders? Let me influence these guys.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, no, that's legitimate. That does happen, but that's not

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what the Gate Program was, and that's not what you know.

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There's no evidence that Charlie Kirk was some sort of

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chosen groomed person because he would disrupt the time continuum

283
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and you know, we got to have we got to have,

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you know, Marty McFly and Doc Brown find a flux

285
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capacitor somehow to take us back can fix the time

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to you know what I mean. Yeah, it's somebody said

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on Twitter. I thought it was pretty funny. It was

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like you could tell what movies she's been watching lately

289
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from her conspiracy theory. So she must have watched The Matrix,

290
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Back to the Future and an Inception because like the

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stories kind of match up to that. I was like, yeah,

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it sounds like x fols to me too, But.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what this whole looking glass thing is

294
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though it is allegedly some sort of ancient Sumerian technology, like,

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what's the the law behind that?

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Speaker 2: Well, first, I would say some of these projects are real,

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and we try to do, you know, on my channel

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with the people that we've interviewed, I try to do

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as best I can with actually finding real elite documents

300
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and reading the real things and not relying on you know,

301
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secondhand speculation. But I think, you know, at the level

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of Candice and people like that, there's there's really no

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vetting going on, which is kind of odd to be

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that large of a channel and to not vet sources

305
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like Mitch Snow or documents. So I'm not aware of

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and I haven't found. I'm not saying it doesn't exist,

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but I've not yet seen the the actual document about this.

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I'm not saying that it couldn't exist. There is project

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the Gateway Process, which doctor David Patrick Carey and I

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did a livestream on that because we actually went and

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found the document and read it. And this is you know,

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if you look at stories like Stark Goats, right, that's

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a real project where they were studying things like remote

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viewing at Stanford Research. There is the Stargate project, so

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these things are real where they study this stuff. But

316
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Stargate got shut down because they really couldn't reproduce the work.

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There was limited success with remote viewing, the other projects

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with mind powers and all this nonsense. If you if

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you've seen ministera Goat, you'll know what I'm talking about

320
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because it's got It's a George Clooney movie based on

321
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a John Ronson book. So it's a real project with

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the first Earth Battalion, which was a bunch of military

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guys that were trying to sort of experiment with mind powers,

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psychic powers, remote viewing, et cetera. But they had limited

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success with this. And again Stargate project. That's real, but

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there's not any evidence beyond some of the studies of

327
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like meditation, which is in the Gateway Process document. Beyond that,

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there's no evidence of time travel or seeing into the future.

329
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All of that's nonsense. People have to understand too. Sometimes

330
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a CIA declassifies things that are just publications that somebody

331
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wrote that were that they had for some reason classified.

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It might have been somebody's name that was mentioned, it

333
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could have been anything. Just because some of these declassified

334
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doesn't mean that, oh, this was a real, you know,

335
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government operation. For example, there was some document declassified that

336
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was a large speculative publication some years back that dealt

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with poll shifts. Okay, well, that doesn't mean that there's

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going to be a poll shift. It just means that

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there was a document declassified that in many of the

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pages happened to mention this speculative theory. So in the

341
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same way, even if there is some document, I mean,

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they can they can declassify fake documents or things that

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really weren't even successful or real projects that has nothing

344
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The fact that is declassified has nothing to do with

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whether it's actually valid or not, so I would say

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there is no I mean, there are other things called

347
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Operation Looking Glass, which have to do with like air

348
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force and military stuff, but there's no I don't think

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there is any real technology of seeing in the future.

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It's much of nonsense, right.

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Speaker 1: Just to let you guys know that we are going

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to be we'll read super chats in between every segment,

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so we're going to be doing a bunch of different

354
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topics today. In between we'll basically just read anything that's

355
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like yellow and up. So any final thoughts on the whole,

356
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that whole situation, they're like, what your predictions are in

357
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the future where you see that whole situation going with

358
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Candice and you know, Carroll and these sorts of figures

359
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who are quite popular these days.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that she's kind of locked into, uh,

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quadrupling down, so I don't expect her anytime soon to

362
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back off. In other words, we've seen this pattern pretty consistently.

363
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She's just going to keep upping the anti. In fact,

364
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she even hinted that the mystical Sumerian Wakanda technology suddenly

365
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stopped working in twenty twelve. I mean, what that's my

366
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in calendar bullshit. I don't think I don't think anybody

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believes in the Mayan calendar twenty twelve nonsense. In episodes,

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she's really weird to tie to for to tie that

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into that, and uh yeah, I mean there's something going

370
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on with you know, she seems to think that, you know,

371
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all of reality is sort of sort of turning around

372
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her and Turlie Kirk, which to me is is it

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In an Orthodox church, we would call that delusion or prelst.

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Speaker 1: Right, what does prelst mean? Again?

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Speaker 2: Prelest is a spiritual delusion. So it's more than just

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kind of being deluded or arrogant. It's actually thinking that

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God is talking to me and sending me these messages

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and I don't have to listen to anyone else sort

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of you know checking me or you know, firewall giving

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me some feedback because God's talking to me. Right. So

381
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it's this It's a supreme form of kind of spiritual

382
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delusion where you think you're kind of anointed and God's

383
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you know, using you.

384
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Speaker 1: Yeah, get a lot of that with the various like

385
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some of the weird sort of sects of Christianity.

386
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Speaker 2: Out there. Oh, absolutely, Yeah, Well she's influenced by it.

387
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She's influenced by the sort of charismatic vein of Catholicism,

388
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and so unfortunately the Romancalloic Church has for the last

389
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few decades adopted the Pentecostal charismatic you know methodology where

390
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you just sort of had these experiences and that's supposedly

391
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,680
God talking to you, and that's the proof itself. How

392
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do I know? Well, God, that's God, God's my feelings.

393
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God's the one that's you know, gibbering through me through

394
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these you know, speaking in tongues. But of course, in Scripture,

395
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tongues are just languages. There's there's no gibberish. So she's

396
00:19:50,839 --> 00:19:54,359
actually influenced by this sort of Catholicism.

397
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Speaker 1: I had a long chat a few weeks ago with

398
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a random Protestant and I'll I was trying to understand

399
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,279
why they thought what they thought. It was like in

400
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,720
like a personal personal life sort of conversation, and we

401
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,079
were going around in circles because I was sort of saying, look,

402
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,759
like the Bible it's good, Like I think that it's

403
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good to obviously read scripture and to no scripture, and

404
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:16,759
these sorts of things. But it's not my job to

405
00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:19,319
interpret the scripture. And this is why we've got like

406
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,240
thousands of years of saints and all of these different

407
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,440
theologians who can tell me that, Like, I could spend

408
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,200
my whole life trying to interpret the Bible, and I

409
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,200
would come to so many wrong conclusions that it would

410
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be ridiculous. So this is why I appreciate the idea

411
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of you know, church authority and having that structure as

412
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opposed to everybody just doing their own interpretations. And every

413
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time I feel a feeling that's like God speaking to

414
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me and we're going around circles because they just kept saying, no,

415
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:46,920
I know what this means, and I can interpret it

416
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because God tells me like and you know, God speaking

417
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,119
to me. And I read the words of God and

418
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I was like, well, how do you differentiate if I

419
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,799
believe this and you believe this and we read the

420
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same scripture? What's the sort of what's the threshold breaker here?

421
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Speaker 2: Right?

422
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Speaker 1: And they just yet like will tell me like it's

423
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it's bizarre in my mind.

424
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a recipe for disaster and sort of delusion

425
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,359
and hints that term preless. I mean, you know, we

426
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,400
have an Orthodox Church, for example, there's checks and balances.

427
00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:20,039
Nobody has this sort of, uh, you know, lone wolf

428
00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:23,720
anointing kind of thing. We do believe in God moving

429
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,759
you and speaking to you in special ways, but in

430
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:31,400
our framework there's always spiritual authorities and other people that

431
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,880
you bounced that off of. For example, if I was

432
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,920
to ever have some kind of vision or experience, I

433
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,119
would talk to my spiritual father about that. And he's

434
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,599
a virtuous, you know, honorable husband priest that I've known

435
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for many, many years, and I trust him because I

436
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,240
know that he's not gonna steer me in the wrong direction.

437
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:51,799
I have other friends like Father Deaconductor and and I

438
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asked people that would give me good counsel. And you know,

439
00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:56,720
the Protestant world, you don't really have that. It's just

440
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,200
sort of you on your own, doing your own thing.

441
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But you actually need that check some balance. We would say,

442
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,720
precisely because we are so susceptible to pride. We're so

443
00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:10,680
susceptible as fallen human beings to trusting in our own hearts.

444
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And if you read the Book of Jeremiah, for example,

445
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there's a section where Jeremiah says that the false prophets

446
00:22:16,519 --> 00:22:19,799
trust in the vision of their own hearts that they

447
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think is God, but they're actually confirming and believing a deception.

448
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Speaker 1: Yeah, i've been. I'm halfway through The Soul after Death

449
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:32,119
by Sarah and Rose at the moment. It's probably my favorite,

450
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,039
my favorite of the Saints that I've read. I just

451
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,079
like how dense the books are with information. There's not

452
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,319
much waffling that goes on. It's just like interesting topic,

453
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,680
interesting topic, interesting topic, boom boom boom, facts fax facts.

454
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,920
Great book. I actually stole it from the Wilson's I

455
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,640
need to send them a new copy. But he does

456
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,039
talk about this about seeing apparitions and these sorts of things.

457
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,880
You don't want to take it at face value. You

458
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,480
want to actually go and like approach your spiritual father

459
00:22:56,599 --> 00:22:58,680
or somebody about this as opposed to just seeing a

460
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,400
ghost or even like a dead family member or something

461
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,400
like this. And it goes all into out of body

462
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,440
experiences and astral project projection and what the Orthodox view

463
00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:09,920
is on this, and it's super super interesting stuff.

464
00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:13,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great one. You'd also probably like his

465
00:23:13,319 --> 00:23:15,680
book Orthodoxy in the Religion the Future because that gets

466
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,160
I read that. Yeah, oh, cool.

467
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:17,839
Speaker 1: That's a great book.

468
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: The other one that's really good from him is Nihilism

469
00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:24,119
Roots of the Revolution, because it's kind of a presuppositional

470
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:29,079
critique of Marxism, socialism, communism, and most of what we

471
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,839
know as modern leftism. He does a really good critique

472
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:32,039
of that.

473
00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, Well let's get through some super chats

474
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,920
here and then we'll move on. Jordan says Jake ingrats

475
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,599
on being the first black woman on rad elsonk TV

476
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,799
to be in a positive light.

477
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:44,279
Speaker 2: Well, we all know who the real queen is, and

478
00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:45,559
it ain't Canvas. I'll tell you that.

479
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: Sniper Mike gifted five. Thank you, Sniper Mike. Anthony says,

480
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,640
great collab. I hope you guys do this more. Hope

481
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,559
you had a great birthday yesterday, Jay, this year is

482
00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:55,880
going to be great for you both. Birthday yesterday. Hey,

483
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:56,599
have your birthday.

484
00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah. I just turned sweet sixteen, got me

485
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,200
a nice little grand Now I'm out there ready to

486
00:24:01,319 --> 00:24:03,680
take it for a spend. Thank you guys so much.

487
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,960
Everybody's really generous and super chat. I appreciate that. Yeah.

488
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,319
Speaker 1: Uh, Cam says the CIA has the observatory from Assassin's Creed.

489
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember there's some kind of you know, future

490
00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:20,279
vision Tech and Assassin's Creed. So that's that's funny. I'm

491
00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:22,599
surprised that. By the way, what I mean, we're only

492
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,079
like a week or two away from the next episode

493
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,160
of Candace's X Files where she goes full full wakando

494
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,759
or yakub. Right, So when when is yakub gonna appear?

495
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:31,720
It's got to be soon.

496
00:24:33,079 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: Moment Killer says, God blessed brothers. Keep up the Lord's work.

497
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,079
Thank you, sir, appreciate that dishwasher safe. Speculum says, thank you,

498
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,119
Jay for traveling back to do this interview.

499
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, you watch Candace. She'll just got okay, okay.

500
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,599
Speaker 1: Cam says, California is kind of like a gay program anyways, true.

501
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,279
Speaker 2: All of California is the gay program.

502
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Giovanni says, yeah, Jake, is that what you want

503
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,720
to do today? Talk about Venezuela. They're making fun of

504
00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:09,720
my venezuela, venezuela, venezuela, venezuela, venezuela, venezuela. Wila Blaine says,

505
00:25:09,759 --> 00:25:12,000
I came back from twenty forty nine to donate this.

506
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:13,960
Thank you. I appreciate all the time travel and brothers.

507
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,759
Speaker 2: Hopefully I'm the Pope of the future and not Candae.

508
00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:18,920
I know that, you know, probably by them will have

509
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:21,559
a black woman pope, but hopefully it's it's me and

510
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,000
not her, all right.

511
00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: Next one I wanted to get into. Other big story

512
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,079
of the week is obviously the United States's role in

513
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,720
global politics. So it appears to me, and let me

514
00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:35,519
know what you think about about this, right, it appears

515
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:38,079
to me as though there is a shifting of the

516
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:40,480
power of the great power politics happening in the world

517
00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:44,160
right before our eyes. You've got the bricks nations Brazil, Russia, India, China,

518
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,440
South Africa and the adjacent countries as well, and their

519
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:49,920
express goal seems to be to knock the US off

520
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,279
its purchase the global reserve currency, to trade in juan

521
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,119
to even create their own sort of trading currency so

522
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,240
they don't have to rely on the US dollar anymore,

523
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,640
and they don't have to be or full victim two sanctions,

524
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,400
if you will, and these types of things. And now

525
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,200
it looks to me as though one of the reasons

526
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:10,799
is though Trump is trying to get Greenland and he's

527
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,039
deposed Maduro is to maybe consolidate a little bit of power,

528
00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:21,319
consolidate the United States' position as the global superpower. Do

529
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,079
you think that that's too simplistic? Is there a lot

530
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:24,960
more going on at play?

531
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: There? No, Also, what could be happening is because the

532
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:32,640
US economy is pretty bad, you know, seizing these resources

533
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,880
could also be just another source of resource money. So

534
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,440
you know, Venezuela having all the oil, basically top oil producer,

535
00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:44,599
that could be a lot of revenue. Because the US

536
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,759
economy is pretty much screwed, there's no way out of

537
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:51,799
the debt given the usery based you know, Fiat printing

538
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,240
model that we've adopted since nineteen thirteen. So there's no

539
00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:59,079
way out of that other than just seizing resources. And unfortunately,

540
00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:03,480
when you have a gigantic or borros of debt as

541
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:06,240
we have, like it's almost it's almost like it forces

542
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,440
people to engage in these activities to maintain the imperium.

543
00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:12,680
And we have an empire, whether we acknowledge that or not.

544
00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:15,759
Even Preziski said it's a US imperium. So I think

545
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:20,920
your right to point to those factors. But also, you know,

546
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,640
we seem to be even in you know, foreign Middle

547
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,480
Eastern countries media, it was reported that some of these

548
00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:31,680
actions in Venezuela were actually at the behest of foreign

549
00:27:31,759 --> 00:27:34,279
Middle Eastern countries, if you if you grasp what I'm saying.

550
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:36,680
So that's a big part of this too, is doing

551
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:43,079
what our allies tell us to do. And I think

552
00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:44,880
that's a little bit surprising because people wouldn't think of

553
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,000
Venezuela as that. But one of the market you know,

554
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,359
my good friend Tristan, you know, he lives in Ecuador

555
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,240
and he knows Latin South American politics very well, and

556
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:56,640
he sent me a ton of information on this which

557
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,039
actually confirms that that there was quite a bit of

558
00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:03,079
foreign interference, shall we say, uh, in Venezuela. And that

559
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,400
doesn't mean that I'm saying socialism is good. It's not.

560
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,279
It's really a false dialectic between the neoliberal I m F.

561
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,640
Shock doctrine, you know, death slavery model or do you

562
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,960
want to be in the socialist death slavery trap model.

563
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,440
Both of those are bad. They're both a false dialectic.

564
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:24,720
So there's really no easy answer for America's you know,

565
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:30,559
pax imperium packs Americana in Latin South America. But the

566
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:33,200
same model as you're pointing to. I think with regime

567
00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:36,000
change is the same. It's the color revolution model that's

568
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:39,480
being used. They're there, it's just straight of regime change.

569
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,559
They're also going to use the same, you know, strategy

570
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:44,640
with Iran. You know, Israel has been calling for the

571
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:51,200
installment of the relative of the shaw as the the

572
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,079
next leader of Iran. But you know, the CIA in

573
00:28:55,119 --> 00:29:02,240
British intelligence had an alliance with the the Ayatola's as well.

574
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,640
So it is when when the revolution happened, that the

575
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,480
CIA was right there in the middle of that as well.

576
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:10,880
So there's a lot going on, but suffice to say that,

577
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,960
you know, the reason these things happen is ultimately for

578
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:18,680
resource control, uh and for as you said, geopolitical stuff

579
00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:22,759
right right, strategic strategic stuff.

580
00:29:23,119 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So there's this argument that you've got.

581
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:36,119
Speaker 2: The are you there? I lost you?

582
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: I lost you there for a sake you're back.

583
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe the Internet or stream Labs or stream yard

584
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,160
froze or something. But I was trying to say a geo.

585
00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:04,839
Somebody came in and distracted me. Geostrategic purpose is right,

586
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,680
So to make sure that there's a unipolar world, not

587
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,000
a multipolar world. That's what the bricks stuff is about,

588
00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:15,440
you know, Russia, China, India creating a multipolar world. So yeah,

589
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,880
I forgot to mention bricks. Sorry.

590
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean, yeah, there's this argument that you've

591
00:30:20,359 --> 00:30:23,200
got the Clean Break Memo late nineteen nineties, all of

592
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,519
these countries that they wanted to destabilize overthrow so that

593
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,960
basically the Israelis can be the hedgemon in that region

594
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,240
in the Middle East. A lot of these countries got overthrown,

595
00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:37,640
the leader's got deposed, Syria, Iraq, Libya, these different countries,

596
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:40,440
and then the theory goes that Iran is sort of

597
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,160
like the last one on the chopping block. They get

598
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:44,839
rid of Iran, and then the Israelis have achieved their

599
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,240
goal of being the hedgemon in that region. Is did

600
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,400
you give credence to that theory?

601
00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, it's oded Yunin and it's the Clean Break memorandum.

602
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:56,240
So yeah, we did some livestreams on that six or

603
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,640
seven months ago when the Iran stuff was really popping off.

604
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720
I went back and those and then had a kind

605
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,559
of a pseudo debate with David Wood and a postic

606
00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:08,759
profit on all of that. But yeah, those memos those

607
00:31:08,759 --> 00:31:11,480
memorandums are absolutely the game plan, and that really makes

608
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,079
sense of why the US has done everything that's done

609
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:17,359
in the Middle East for the last you know, twenty

610
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,359
thirty years.

611
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,559
Speaker 1: So I was watching a debate on this exactly with

612
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:24,920
Dave Smith and Coleman Hughes. You might have seen this

613
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,200
debate where Coleman Hughes was saying, well, why is this

614
00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:31,480
such a significant memorandum? There are thousands of memorandums that

615
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,359
will come across the desk of the intelligence agencies in

616
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,759
the United States. This was just some random piece of paper,

617
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:38,559
and people are grabbing this and acting like this is

618
00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:40,839
some sort of a really significant thing. Do you think

619
00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:45,480
that it is as significant in terms of their actual

620
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,599
geopolitical strategy or is it just a random piece of

621
00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:50,400
paper memorandum that some guy in the office drafted up.

622
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: Well, I mean Natanyahu's memorandum and the strategy being followed

623
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,559
and lining up in many ways with the old ed

624
00:31:58,599 --> 00:32:01,319
your non strategy is not just random and random. So no,

625
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,720
that's just completely not true. That's to ignore the fact

626
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,960
that the US you know, engaged in these actions to

627
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,759
support Israeli policy. There. It's not every single one of

628
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:14,359
them I mean there's mentions, for example, of trying to

629
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:20,839
create a Christian government in I think Egypt, like a

630
00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:24,240
Coptic Christian government in Egypt. Well that didn't happen. So

631
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,039
the argument is not that every single thing successfully was achieved,

632
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,720
but it shows you a general layout and strategy, and

633
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:33,880
it doesn't mention all these countries and they have all

634
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,640
been toppled except for Iran. But that doesn't mean that

635
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,640
Iran is like I don't really view Iran as a

636
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,119
one percent you know, anti Western force. There's a lot

637
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:48,279
of backdoor deals. I mean, if you read Victor Strowsky's books,

638
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,519
Massade sold a lot of armaments to Iran on the

639
00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:54,599
down low. So there's a lot of backdoor deals that

640
00:32:54,759 --> 00:32:57,039
make even a lot of this just kind of dialectics

641
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,960
and you know, exactly what happened in the long term,

642
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,160
It's hard to say, but I mean we are really

643
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:06,880
obviously following, you know, the Zionist policy in the Middle East.

644
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,039
I don't it shouldn't even be questionable at this point.

645
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it is pretty it is

646
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,119
pretty self evident by this stage for sure. So in

647
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,119
terms of this, this Shah's son, this guy from what

648
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,240
I've seen has basically never really had a job or anything.

649
00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:25,400
He comes from a royal family, moved to America after

650
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,599
the revolution, hasn't really engaged in much politics himself. So

651
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,599
the idea for me that he can just come in

652
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:34,400
and just sort of click his fingers and take over

653
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,000
from the Iatola seems a bit far fetched, especially considering

654
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960
the changes in the region since nineteen seventy nine. Like,

655
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,480
it's a lot more volatile and dangerous from what I

656
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:45,839
can see, and there are a lot of very hostile

657
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,160
nonstate actors around. You've got your ISIS and al Qaeda.

658
00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:51,759
Even though, tell me if I'm wrong about this, but

659
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,039
they also hate the Ayatola because they see him as

660
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:59,799
a Sheite clerical apostate, and they kind of hate him.

661
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:02,480
Though they're all Muslims that they're Sunnis and she is there,

662
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:05,839
they don't like each other, and they see the Atola,

663
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,119
the son you see of the Ayatola, as illegitimate. Even

664
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:11,679
though they don't like the Shah. They also hate the Ayatola.

665
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,039
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah. I mean they've been fighting for centuries,

666
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,719
so I mean they you know, if you go back

667
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,400
to I'm going for a memory, here is a Karbala.

668
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,119
You know, the Shia have the whole ceremony where they

669
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:30,800
celebrate battling the Shia, I mean the Sunni. So yeah, yeah,

670
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:37,880
that's definitely the case, and that's why you have at times,

671
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,360
you know, the Shia have reached out to kind of

672
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:41,960
have more of an alliance with the West or with

673
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:46,039
Christianity because of the opposition of this of the Sunnis.

674
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:49,320
But ultimately, in the in the long game, if you're

675
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,199
an orthodox Christian, these all they're all really antichrist powers

676
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,840
because Shia Islam is just another form of neoplatonism. So

677
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,199
in many ways it's kind of similar to Sufism, but

678
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,199
there's nothing really that links it with Christianity ultimately, so

679
00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:08,239
there's always going to be the animosity. But in the

680
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,079
Middle East, yeah, there I think that you know, Iran

681
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:17,400
does obviously have designs because you wouldn't have the assassination

682
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:21,440
of these generals, you wouldn't have Masad engaging in things

683
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,960
like stutt Net, sucks Net and whatnot if there was,

684
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,199
if they weren't really trying to, you know, have their

685
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,840
version of hegemony in the region. So really, you know,

686
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:33,440
every time I say this, everybody gets mad and they say, oh,

687
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:36,360
so you're pro Israel. In your answer, I really don't

688
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,840
think there's any good or bad guys, you know, in

689
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,320
in this this level of geopolitics, and it's just it's

690
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,679
just going to be classic tribalism and fighting for you know,

691
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,400
regional dominance. So I don't really think the US wins

692
00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:53,599
either way. But I also don't necessarily support regime change,

693
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,960
and I do think that. I mean, if you get

694
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,039
into Shia Islam and look at what they believe, it

695
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:03,320
really it is a crazy cult. Really, yeah, absolutely.

696
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,679
Speaker 1: What makes them more crazy than the Sunnis?

697
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 2: Well, I mean Shia Islam is a little more mystical

698
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,079
and they're a little more apocalyptic in terms of their

699
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,559
you know, they think it like the end times and

700
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:19,239
these manifestations are going to you know, happen in their future. SONO.

701
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,800
A lot of times, any kind of like imminent eschatology

702
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,880
and times type stuff can motivate more radical, irrational actions.

703
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:31,679
I mean, Rabbinic Judaism is not much better, but no,

704
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,159
Shia Islam is an absolutely insane cult.

705
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: So what do you see happening there in the future.

706
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,800
Because it looks as though you had the Trump strikes

707
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,320
on the nuclear facilities in Iran, and then you've got

708
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,199
the revolution that looks like it's happening in the street,

709
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,320
looks like it's gaining momentum. There's a lot of protesters

710
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,719
being killed there at the moment, this could be seen

711
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,039
as the grounds for deposing the leader. Do you think

712
00:36:58,079 --> 00:36:59,960
that that's going to happen in the near future? Do

713
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:01,559
you think this is going to be a false alarm?

714
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,079
And also why do you think it is that we

715
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,440
are seeing this big sort of revolution happening. Do you

716
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,440
think that there's foreign involvement and interference or do you

717
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:12,360
like when I look at it, I tend to think

718
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,119
if I was in Tehran right now, if I was

719
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:17,760
a citizen of Tehran, I'd be looking around me and

720
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,039
be thinking, do we really want to go to war?

721
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,159
We've had a few strikes that have happened. We haven't

722
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:26,000
really been able to respond. The government isn't as strong

723
00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:28,039
as we thought. All of our different proxies are kind

724
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:30,360
of just getting taken out one by one. Do I

725
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,519
really want my home to get completely destroyed? Like it's

726
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:34,320
not a war that we're going to win. Get rid

727
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,599
of these guys, have a more Western friendly government so

728
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:38,159
that we don't go to war in our country doesn't

729
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:40,679
get destroyed. Maybe I'd be thinking that if I was

730
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,639
a citizen, But how do you see that going?

731
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: Probably? I mean, I know that there's the Mulahs are unpopular,

732
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,400
that's true. But also, you know, it's such a challenge

733
00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:02,840
because you know, you as leaders like Trump formerly, we're

734
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,119
opposed to these kinds of things. You know, you've had

735
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:08,639
many many people saying, let's not have this regime change,

736
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,480
let's not do this. And yet now here we are

737
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,000
supposedly because you know, because of the threat to Israel

738
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,159
and so we're we're probably going to see some sort

739
00:38:20,199 --> 00:38:22,840
of you know, false flag blamed on a ran. Eventually,

740
00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:27,119
you've got to have something to motivate, you know, popular support,

741
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,440
because nobody really wants this except for Nanna, who who's

742
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,039
you know, they wanted this for a long time. So

743
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:37,400
and and surprisingly, remember you know, the last few rounds

744
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,840
of this, you know, Trump didn't do exactly what na wanted.

745
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,840
Now it looks like, for whatever reason, we are doing

746
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,639
all of that. So you know, who knows what the

747
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:52,639
real game plan is. But I would guess that it's

748
00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:57,440
probably not going to be successful. I mean, again, you're

749
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,800
you have to understand it's a it's an ideology motivated

750
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,159
by a cult if you talk about Shia in general,

751
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,039
and that's not going to operate in a rational way.

752
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,440
But yeah, I think it's it's just bad news all around.

753
00:39:12,519 --> 00:39:15,039
I mean, we've had some Orthodox clerics and people warning that,

754
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:16,599
you know, we might actually have a big war in

755
00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:18,440
twenty twenty six if a lot of this continues.

756
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: Wasn't there one? I mean I remember dph talking about this.

757
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,280
It might even have been with you. He was talking

758
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,559
about an Orthodox cleric who said that there would be

759
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:29,559
strikes on Iran and it would come to some sort

760
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:31,239
of a war, and he predicted that ages Ago.

761
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 2: I think that's Elder Apaisios said that before he died,

762
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,079
but he you know, he's a pretty recent holy man.

763
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,320
But yeah, I think his his story was that there

764
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,320
would be presages of a big war when it comes

765
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,960
to Iran, and then I think some didy to do

766
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:49,360
with Turkey and Greece if a recall.

767
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, difficult to see where it's going to go.

768
00:39:54,679 --> 00:39:57,440
Witsus came in and said, hi, j and Jakello WHITSI

769
00:39:57,559 --> 00:40:00,440
is good to see you. Blame Pisasik says Jay do

770
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:01,880
your nick cage impression.

771
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 2: I'm so glad to be here with my good buddy Jake.

772
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,079
Thank's probably the best shaman on the internet, because you're

773
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:13,079
going to give me a reading later. I've got a

774
00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:15,000
bit of a cold, so my neck cage is a

775
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:15,719
little off, but.

776
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:20,079
Speaker 1: You can't be sick on the nick cage. Not bad though,

777
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:25,079
Amelia sent twenty eight. Thank you very much, Amelia greatly appreciated.

778
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,599
All Right, what did we have next on the agenda here? Kabbala?

779
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:31,559
So this is something I'm curious. I've had you and

780
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:34,480
Dph talk about this a lot in your various streams.

781
00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:37,559
It's something that I've listened to a fair bit, but

782
00:40:37,639 --> 00:40:41,480
I just still don't understand it at all, some sort

783
00:40:41,519 --> 00:40:44,880
of a mystical practice. It's just one of those things

784
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,800
that's so late. Like, first of all, what is kabala

785
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,840
and what are the origins of kabbala?

786
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:55,079
Speaker 2: Well, the word just means the tradition or the receiver

787
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,280
passed on tradition. So the word is referring to, in

788
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,400
some sense, the oral teachings of Rabbinic Judaism, and it's

789
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,719
the idea that all the way back to Genesis or

790
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,280
to the time of the prophets like Ezekiel. There's this

791
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,840
oral form of revelation or Judaic tradition that's also been

792
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,480
passed down that's sort of concurrent with the rabbinical written

793
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:22,199
texts or the Torah or whatever. But there's also branches

794
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,360
of it that get into mysticism and what you'll find

795
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,760
in a lot of you know, Western religions in general,

796
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,039
whether it's from Meticism or whether it's Christianity or Islam,

797
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:35,320
a lot of times they will borrow or utilize the

798
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,159
structures of neoplatonism. So Neoplatonism is later Platonic schools in

799
00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:44,880
the first, second, and third century that developed Plato and

800
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,719
Aristotle into some sort of systematized way to understand the

801
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:54,320
structure of reality. One of the classic examples of neoplatonism

802
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,719
is what's called the Porphyrian tree. If you look that up,

803
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:00,320
it's a tree that's intended to kind of give you

804
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,280
the structure or the dimensions that make up reality. And

805
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,960
there's all kinds of theories, there's all kinds of schemes,

806
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,360
but this is a basic template that's used. And Christianity

807
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:22,800
or Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity, Sufism, Shia Islam and Judaism, particularly

808
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,280
with Kabbala, have appropriated and utilized Kabbala and the Porphyrian

809
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,320
treat to kind of give meaning and structure to reality

810
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,519
beyond just the basics of you know, Genesis and creation

811
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:37,960
and this kind of stuff. So it's a more of

812
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,960
a metaphysical thing, and within Kabbala and Judaism it gets

813
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,519
in many cases way more mystical, where you can have

814
00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:51,679
practices and include things like magic, sigil magic. There's a

815
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,440
there's a medieval Jewish myth called the Gollum. You probably

816
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:01,559
heard of the Gollumn, and this idea that through magical

817
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,239
incantations or perhaps even through technology or whatever, and using

818
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,360
the words, the Hebrew words and names of God, you

819
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,280
can create sort of animatronic or living beings. And I

820
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,960
don't even think that Judaism is necessarily the beginning of

821
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,039
that idea. You can find that idea in ancient Greece,

822
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:22,039
where some of the philosophers talked about creating sort of

823
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,920
technotronic beings or mechanical beings so to speak. So long

824
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,440
story short, A big part of that school of mysticism

825
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:39,320
deals with things like what we would call perhaps computer beings,

826
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,199
or Ai beings. Right, if you're a cabalistic Jew, you

827
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:44,760
would interpret or think of a lot of things like

828
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,079
Ai or robotics as a version of the Gollumn. So

829
00:43:49,079 --> 00:43:50,840
there's much more to it than that. But I mean

830
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,119
it kind of branches into gnosticism at times. A lot

831
00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:57,760
of the medieval Jewish coblists were influenced by Christian gnostics,

832
00:43:58,599 --> 00:44:02,400
so they utilize kind of good and evil as flip

833
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,480
sides of the same coin principles. So it gets all

834
00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:08,119
it's all over the place, and every different cobblist kind

835
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:10,920
of has its own scheme or system. So that's just

836
00:44:11,039 --> 00:44:13,840
quickly like what, like who.

837
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:16,559
Speaker 1: Is actually practice? Do we know that people are practicing

838
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:19,360
this sort of thing these days? And is it a

839
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,239
small portion of the Jewish religion? Is it like a

840
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,840
weird sect of the Jewish religion or is it something

841
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,760
that's pretty ingrained. It would be like orthodox people or.

842
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,079
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, any person within and even without Judaism

843
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:39,639
could conceivably be interested in or have some version of Kabbalism.

844
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,039
I mean, for example, many Western esotericists who weren't even Jews,

845
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:49,119
like Alistair Crowley, he borrowed heavily from the Kabbala. Albert Pike,

846
00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:52,679
who wrote the Bible of Masonry, Morals and Dogma, was

847
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,840
very influenced by Kabbala, so he utilizes it. And then

848
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,880
you know, we have pop culture figures who've been big

849
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,400
promoters of Kabbala, like Madonna and the La Cabbala Center.

850
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,679
Speaker 1: Can they know, though, d Can they know the sort

851
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,000
of tradition of what they're actually doing and what they're

852
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,559
actually saying or do you think that they have various

853
00:45:09,559 --> 00:45:13,280
influences around them that that make them do these because

854
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,880
I can't imagine Madonna really sort of looking into any

855
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,239
sort of medieval metaphysics.

856
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 2: No, I think in her case, I mean, I'm not

857
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,480
saying that what she's into is very well thought out

858
00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:28,039
or sensible. I'm not saying that like Madonna's controlling the

859
00:45:28,039 --> 00:45:31,800
world through the Rabbis. But I mean, I mean I've

860
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,199
read the you know, she for many years was promoting

861
00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:37,719
the Cabbala Center in La back to the late nineteen

862
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,280
nineties actually, and I've read some of the material from

863
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,199
her Cabala Center in La, and I mean, again, it's

864
00:45:44,199 --> 00:45:48,760
not like extremely in depth, like you know, reading Thomas

865
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,800
Aquinas or something like that, but I think, yeah, she

866
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,400
absolutely knows that it's medieval, you know, Jewish practice. You

867
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,599
can watch old videos of Madonna where she's actually promoting

868
00:45:57,639 --> 00:46:01,320
some pretty some ideas that are a little more sophisticated in

869
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,800
high tier than you would expect her to promote. I mean,

870
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,079
it's all demonic, but I'm saying I think she is

871
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:10,599
fairly serious about it. But again, beyond you know people

872
00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:13,159
like that that popularize it in the in the pop world,

873
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:16,719
I mean you have people like Ashton Kutcher was a

874
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:22,199
big promoter of it popularly speaking, but in a more

875
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:25,880
you know, serious geopolitical sense. I mean there you have

876
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,719
people like Jacque Atteli, who's the Kissinger of France. Uh,

877
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,679
you know, I read his books. He's he's obviously a

878
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,880
pretty systematic devotee of the ideas of it. I mean,

879
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,039
he utilizes it in his geopolitical writings, for example, and

880
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:40,199
brief Ish in the future. He predicted in two thousand

881
00:46:40,199 --> 00:46:42,400
and six that we would all be linked into a

882
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,400
global hive mind, which he calls the Gollum and he

883
00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:50,079
specifically links it to, you know, Kabbalism. You have a

884
00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:54,159
lot of people in Hollywood, directors Darren Darren Aronofsky, for

885
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,000
His first movie was about Kabbala. You've ever seen Pie?

886
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

887
00:46:59,039 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pie is pretty famou. I mean, it's a it's

888
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,239
a it's a movie about numerology amongst the Jewish Hasidic

889
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,039
community and a guy kind of goes crazy. But most

890
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:10,800
of his movies, I mean, whether It's a Mother, or

891
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,440
whether it's Black Swan or you know, they're all pretty

892
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,159
much cabalistic theme movies. So yeah, many people do practice it,

893
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,760
many people are just influenced by it. But I think

894
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,400
more so for the geopolitical sphere, it's it's Hegel who

895
00:47:24,519 --> 00:47:29,960
was really influenced by Kabbala, and he took cabalistic ideas

896
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,239
a thesis, antithesis, synthesis and turned that into a way

897
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,480
to understand all of reality. And then Carl Marx took

898
00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:41,039
that and turned that into dialectics for Marxism and socialism.

899
00:47:41,039 --> 00:47:43,599
So actually, when you talk about Marxism, you're actually talking

900
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:46,480
about a form of atheistic Cabala, so to speak.

901
00:47:47,519 --> 00:47:51,039
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. So because because Hegel was quite sort

902
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:54,480
of spiritual in his practice, in like his philosophy and

903
00:47:54,519 --> 00:47:56,280
the things that he believed, and the whole idea of

904
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:00,679
the dialectically. You said, the uh, thesis and thesis and

905
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,320
then synthesis, and then Max translated that into sort of

906
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,079
like dialectical materialism, is that what he calls it? And

907
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:09,880
then a way to view the world in history in

908
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:13,519
the sense that material conditions can just keep on changing

909
00:48:13,559 --> 00:48:15,840
and then create different synthesis. Is that correct?

910
00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:16,679
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

911
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: So Yeah, so that actually comes from this cabalistic metaphysical

912
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:24,800
way to view the world.

913
00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, at least there's a very heavy influence.

914
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,280
And there's an academic text that cover this is called

915
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,079
Hegel and Hermeticism. That's written by professor who's a Hegelian

916
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:37,039
scholar who went and looked back at the many medieval

917
00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:41,960
late medieval esoteric hermetic influences on Hegel, which a lot

918
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,800
of people had not really noticed before. But you have

919
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,199
people like you, awcome, I fere, you have people like

920
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,960
Giordano Bruno, the famous medieval hermeticist. They were into these

921
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,360
ideas and even though they weren't Jews, they were still

922
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,639
influenced by these ideas and that was a huge Yeah,

923
00:48:57,679 --> 00:49:01,199
there's a huge influence on Hegel himself, who was pretty

924
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,880
much a I guess what you the best way to

925
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,280
figure out to characterize Hegel would be as kind of

926
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,719
a version of neoplatonism, which one of the problems, and

927
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,440
I'm not going to spend too much time on us,

928
00:49:12,679 --> 00:49:15,559
is pretty abstruse and boring. But one of the problems

929
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:20,079
in Platonism was always that Plato's ideas and these these realms,

930
00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:23,400
these manifestations or whatever they're they're very static, and so

931
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,760
there was always a problem in Platonism to deal with

932
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:28,639
process and change. So, in other words, if the realm

933
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:31,400
of the ideas is eternal and static, how does it

934
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,559
have anything to do with the realm our realm, which

935
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:35,519
is always in flux and changing. So that was a

936
00:49:35,519 --> 00:49:41,559
constant problem in in Platonism and neoplatonism, and one of

937
00:49:41,559 --> 00:49:43,199
the things one of the things Hegel does is really

938
00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:46,280
try to resolve that through process philosophy. So he's a

939
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,840
huge proponent of there being these sort of ideals, but

940
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,880
they're always sort of in process, moving towards what he

941
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,719
called the Omega point, which is everything becoming self conscious.

942
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,280
And and you can find this influence very heavily. I'm

943
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,599
sure you mentioned this probably with doctor David Patrick Carey,

944
00:50:04,599 --> 00:50:07,480
and I think he would back this up, especially amongst

945
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,480
the transhumanists they're very much into these ideas of hegel

946
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,760
or tear the chardine, and the idea of the newestphere

947
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:19,119
and everything kind of becoming unified into this grand supra

948
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:24,960
consciousness via the web, the net, the global brain, Jacques Cattales, Gollum,

949
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:25,400
et cetera.

950
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: It's all the same idea, the idea, and this is

951
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,800
like the Omega point that is the sort of final

952
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:37,239
destination of the dialectic. Absolutely interesting. Interesting. Okay, So here's

953
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:40,880
this might be like a simplistic question, but do these

954
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,320
people believe in God?

955
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I've got Ray Kursvall's books. He's sort of

956
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,920
the you know, most famous transhumanist, and he says in

957
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,719
the books, I don't believe in God yet, and he

958
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,199
basically and he says some other comments like I'll believe

959
00:50:57,199 --> 00:50:59,000
in God when I'm when I become him or something

960
00:50:59,039 --> 00:51:02,000
like that. So, I mean, it's like, you know, for transhumanism,

961
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,559
you you know, they tend to believe that the it's

962
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:09,800
an emergent deity, it's a day sex mocking, it's a

963
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,599
god that will emerge out of the system, meaning you know,

964
00:51:12,679 --> 00:51:15,880
some super ai or whatever. Some of the people, though,

965
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,000
I think in that vein could be cabalistic. I've got

966
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,719
some books by cabalistic scholars that are into you know,

967
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,960
AI and transhumanism over there on my shelf, So I

968
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,880
would imagine that they just see it as some form

969
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,800
of mystical judaism. I mean, I think you've got a

970
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,199
whole range of people. I mean there's people who like

971
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:41,559
Peter Carroll, who's actually the godfather of modern Satanism and transhumanism,

972
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:44,559
even perhaps before Crowley, and he was kind of the

973
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,960
pioneer of technopaganism and cyberpunk stuff, because he actually thinks

974
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,239
that the Internet is kind of a form of chaos magic,

975
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,199
and that the Internet itself will kind of become some

976
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,559
sort of like uncontrolled deity. I I'm not saying that

977
00:51:59,559 --> 00:52:01,039
that's true, but I'm saying, like, so, I think you

978
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:05,199
have a range of people's views amongst these these technocrats.

979
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: But what about say, like the coblist, Because it kind

980
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,920
of appears to me as though from what you were

981
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,519
saying before, that they view the trajectory of humanity in

982
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,440
like the reverse way to we. They look at it

983
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,519
from man to God, whereas we look at it from

984
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:21,800
God to man. So do they believe in a source

985
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,239
or an original or are they big bang theorists sort

986
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:25,679
of people? Are they diagnostic?

987
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things I've noticed with I mean,

988
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,920
I haven't read a million cobblists, but I've read probably

989
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:37,000
five or six different Cabbalistic texts and views, and I've

990
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:39,559
read the premiere cobblists of the twentieth century was a

991
00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:42,599
guy named Gersham Sholm, and I've read two or three

992
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:45,519
of his books, and and he basically just says, you know,

993
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,639
you basically you have like this structure of the Neoplatonic tree,

994
00:52:50,039 --> 00:52:52,960
and then any individual cobbolist can come on and kind

995
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,559
of like paste on to the structure his version of it.

996
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,480
So there's almost as many kabbalahs as there are cobbylists, right.

997
00:53:00,519 --> 00:53:04,519
So you could read some medieval rabbi like Nachmanides and

998
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:06,360
he'd have his theory, and then you could read some

999
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,199
modern day rabbi or teacher I don't know any of

1000
00:53:11,199 --> 00:53:12,639
them off the top of my head, and they would

1001
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:15,039
have their own kind of theories, and sometimes they might

1002
00:53:15,199 --> 00:53:21,519
emphasize number theory and number magic, which again is that's

1003
00:53:21,519 --> 00:53:27,079
really just like hythe agoreanism, that's not anything new. You

1004
00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:31,400
might find others that emphasize, you know, Orthodox Judaism, and

1005
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,599
they might actually believe Orthodox Judaism and still be a Cabbalist,

1006
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,400
So you kind of have again it's it's like any

1007
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,679
other Western religion, Like you have the more rational strains

1008
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,760
and then you have the more mystical esoteric strains of it,

1009
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,480
and you could get anybody believing all kinds of things.

1010
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: M Yeah, well, because of these people would really have

1011
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,119
to believe what they believe, because if you did, if

1012
00:53:57,159 --> 00:53:59,559
you do take the metaphysical realities of the world and

1013
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:02,039
the spiritual warfare and the spiritual aspect to life, and

1014
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:04,280
if you do believe that your soul is different from

1015
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,239
your body and that there is some sort of an afterlife,

1016
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,599
then I would imagine it's a question that people take

1017
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,199
very seriously, if they're not just atheist materialists. But I

1018
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,920
do wonder sometimes why would you want to go down

1019
00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:17,280
that When you look at like Alister Crowley, for example,

1020
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,920
these Satanists, the people who worship demons, these sorts of things,

1021
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,440
why would you want to be on that team? For

1022
00:54:23,519 --> 00:54:25,039
lack of a better way to put it.

1023
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 2: I guess probably the most popular reason why would be

1024
00:54:33,039 --> 00:54:39,079
that those systems offer people a kind of a self

1025
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,159
apotheosis path. In other words, they offer to you this

1026
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,559
idea that you can become your own God. So it's

1027
00:54:44,639 --> 00:54:47,360
kind of a repeat of what you see in Genesis, ironically,

1028
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,639
where the serpent says, you know, you'll be your own guy,

1029
00:54:49,679 --> 00:54:52,559
that's why God wants to keep you down. And you know,

1030
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:56,199
Crowley and these different systems offer the same thing. And

1031
00:54:56,519 --> 00:54:58,400
you know, I have a book over there by I

1032
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,840
forget the name Ellen or Crieft or Crete or something

1033
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:08,400
like that. She's some sort of coubalistic academic mathematician woman.

1034
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,800
And in her book she says, well, one of the

1035
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,360
things that's fascinat about cabal is that it offers man

1036
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:18,559
this ability to through magic or technology, to become his

1037
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:21,159
own God. So I think that a lot of people

1038
00:55:21,559 --> 00:55:24,079
think and believe that they're gonna, you know, achieve some

1039
00:55:24,119 --> 00:55:28,119
kind of apotheosis. You ever see that. It's a really

1040
00:55:28,199 --> 00:55:32,880
silly nineties movie, but it's it's the Stephen King story

1041
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,760
lawnmower Man. If you're watched that, yeah, you should watch it.

1042
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,639
It's pretty funny because basically there's this retarded guy and

1043
00:55:39,679 --> 00:55:42,039
he's literally retarded. I'm not saying he's an idiot, like

1044
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:44,440
an actual retarded guy who's like a long cair dude,

1045
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,239
and Pierce Brosnan experiments on him to see if he

1046
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,320
can like raise the guy's IQ using the Internet, which

1047
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,920
is kind of new at the time, and the guy

1048
00:55:55,039 --> 00:55:59,039
ends up becoming this sort of deity in the Internet

1049
00:55:59,079 --> 00:56:02,079
world because he it's like this massively high IQ and

1050
00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:03,840
he tries to sort of take over the world. So

1051
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:06,159
Lawn more Man is a good funny example of what

1052
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:07,199
I'm trying to say here.

1053
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: Right, So, I mean, then you contrast that with the

1054
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:12,599
Orthodox Christian way to view the world and the idea

1055
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:15,039
of Theosis, something that I've been looking into a fair

1056
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:19,079
bit recently. How would you if you had to explain

1057
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:21,960
the idea of what theosis is? Because I was watching

1058
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,159
this viy Have you ever seen that YouTube channel Harmony?

1059
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm not, but I've been hearing about those people have

1060
00:56:27,519 --> 00:56:28,880
been saying I should check it out.

1061
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good. He does breakdowns of various different

1062
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,679
Orthodox traditions and basically explaining Orthodoxy. And he's very like

1063
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,239
the cinematography is really good, Like it's very artistic. It's

1064
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,960
it's a good channel. And he did this video about

1065
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,039
theosis being the meaning of life. So I mean, tell

1066
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:47,639
me what theosis is.

1067
00:56:49,039 --> 00:56:52,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, in an Orthodox view, that's what we mean by grace.

1068
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,920
And you know, you hear Protestants or Roman Catholics talk about,

1069
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,000
you know, being said by grace. We agree with that,

1070
00:56:57,159 --> 00:56:59,480
but we see grace as more than just sort of

1071
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:03,280
God's position changing towards us from you know, anger to

1072
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,920
love or whatever. We see it as more of an

1073
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,079
ontological reality of participation. So it's very crucial in the

1074
00:57:10,199 --> 00:57:14,079
Orthodox view that we're not just being better people or whatever.

1075
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:17,320
We're actually participating in the uncreated energies and life and

1076
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,440
love of God and that's actually what transforms us. So

1077
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,400
it's a much more metaphysical ontological stress in the Orthodox

1078
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,239
view versus the typical sort of Western Protestant and Catholic

1079
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,280
view about where you stand legally based on whether you

1080
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,079
were good or bad. So that's kind of what it is.

1081
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:35,199
And the Orthodox view, you know, we kind of have

1082
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,400
this idea of there being a process to it, of

1083
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:44,320
of purgation and iminating and deification and illumination. We have

1084
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,320
this idea of the means of grace, which is the Church,

1085
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:53,119
the sacraments, confession, you know, prayer, Bible study, all of

1086
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:55,480
those things kind of are are part and parcel with

1087
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,440
how we participate in those uncreated energies of God. So

1088
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,239
the big difference between that and apotheosis or what a

1089
00:58:02,239 --> 00:58:05,119
lot of these you know, occult traditions or kabala or

1090
00:58:05,159 --> 00:58:07,920
whatever saying is that for those groups, it's kind of

1091
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,840
a ritual, sort of magical working that you're doing to

1092
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,960
become God. Whereas for us, we're never going to become

1093
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:18,400
God in some replacement or identity sense, but we can

1094
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:23,280
participate in God and become like God through grace. So

1095
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:27,519
it's two different too, very different positions.

1096
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: And that's sort of the God's intention is for you

1097
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:33,480
to like sort of live in the image, in His

1098
00:58:33,679 --> 00:58:35,599
image as much as possible, and to sort of shed

1099
00:58:35,639 --> 00:58:38,400
the passions and these sorts of things and prepare yourself

1100
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:43,320
in this in this life to be able to participate

1101
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,639
in those energies. Like I'm reading this book that I'm reading,

1102
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,800
the Soul after Death. One of the things that they're

1103
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:49,119
talking about in the part that I'm in at the

1104
00:58:49,119 --> 00:58:53,360
moment is the toll houses before when the soul leaves

1105
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,400
the body that goes through these toll houses, and it

1106
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,079
goes through a series of tests, if you will, where

1107
00:58:58,239 --> 00:59:02,000
different passions will be resented to you, and the demons

1108
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,800
will try and make their case and the angels will

1109
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,199
try and make their case. And it kind of makes

1110
00:59:06,239 --> 00:59:09,159
sense when I think about it, because you would have

1111
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,360
to shit, like, you're not going to be in communion

1112
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,519
with God in any way if you are, if your

1113
00:59:14,519 --> 00:59:17,000
soul is unclean, and if you have all of these

1114
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,760
different passions that you're sort of a slave to because

1115
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,639
you have to God's not going to allow that into

1116
00:59:22,679 --> 00:59:26,760
his orbit, right, So this is the idea that you

1117
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,639
have to sort of cleanse yourself and resist the passions

1118
00:59:29,639 --> 00:59:31,599
and shed those things so that you can eventually be

1119
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:34,239
almost like face to face with God. Is that correct?

1120
00:59:34,679 --> 00:59:38,079
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. I think the idea is that when we die,

1121
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:44,000
there's still probably attachments that we have, and the purpose

1122
00:59:44,079 --> 00:59:47,880
of that process after death is to remove, to get

1123
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,880
rid of any of those those passions that we're still

1124
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,800
sort of maintaining. As you said, so, one of the

1125
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,519
reasons in the Orthodox Church that we pray for the

1126
00:59:56,599 --> 00:59:59,280
dead is because we believe that there is still that

1127
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:03,079
efficacy of the Church and it's sacraments even when a

1128
01:00:03,079 --> 01:00:05,960
person who's died in the church moves on. So, yeah,

1129
01:00:06,239 --> 01:00:08,400
you absolutely nailed it. And I think it's fascinating too

1130
01:00:08,519 --> 01:00:10,960
that when and I think Father Sif from Rowe. It's

1131
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,199
been probably fifteen years since I read that book, but

1132
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,840
I remember Father Rose says something to the fact of

1133
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,840
when you look at even the other ancient religions, like

1134
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,280
they still have the same idea, Like that's the Batan

1135
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,360
Book of the Dead or Egyptian Book of the Dead,

1136
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,000
they have this idea of the journey after death, and

1137
01:00:27,079 --> 01:00:29,199
you know that's not aliens to the Christian tradition either,

1138
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:30,519
especially in the Orthodox world.

1139
01:00:31,519 --> 01:00:36,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is one thing I do wonder. It

1140
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,039
kind of makes sense to me when I think about

1141
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:40,440
the history if human actually got this from watching one

1142
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,559
of your videos you did a twenty there's like an old,

1143
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:44,559
old video that you've done. It's about twenty minutes or

1144
01:00:44,599 --> 01:00:50,920
so where you're describing the history of humanity basically, and

1145
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,039
that you have the full of like you have the

1146
01:00:54,039 --> 01:00:59,039
fallen angels that have dominion over the world. Christ comes along,

1147
01:00:59,119 --> 01:01:03,800
he defeats death, and then now we have the ability

1148
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,119
to be able to have power over demons because we

1149
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:09,719
have the power of Christ, and he came and defeated

1150
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,440
sin and death and these sorts of things. So before Christ,

1151
01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:18,599
all of these other ancient religions, Hinduism and all of

1152
01:01:18,639 --> 01:01:23,880
the different pagan religions and everything were all essentially manifestations

1153
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,199
of demons terrorizing human beings. Is that correct?

1154
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:31,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it was a little bit more to

1155
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,960
it in that I did a good podcast many many

1156
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,239
years ago, maybe six seven years ago with Seraphim Hamilton,

1157
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:41,000
and we did a whole assessment of kind of ancient

1158
01:01:41,159 --> 01:01:45,360
history from the orthodox Christian perspective in terms of Genesis

1159
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,440
and then the world perhaps before the flood, which the

1160
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,719
idea there would be that even in Genesis you kind

1161
01:01:52,719 --> 01:01:58,320
of have proto Christianity. So all the religions derived from

1162
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:04,119
a very early Genesis era proto Christianity. So the reason

1163
01:02:04,159 --> 01:02:08,119
that there's what we call the logos bermatikos or the

1164
01:02:08,159 --> 01:02:10,119
seeds of the truth of the logos, even in all

1165
01:02:10,119 --> 01:02:13,480
the other religions, whether Hindu or Buddha or whatever, like.

1166
01:02:13,559 --> 01:02:16,039
The reason that's there is because we would say the

1167
01:02:16,039 --> 01:02:19,599
original religion was actually proto Christianity. So over time what

1168
01:02:19,719 --> 01:02:23,599
happens is, you know, the descendants of Noah that lived

1169
01:02:23,639 --> 01:02:27,920
in China or wherever, like, they had this seed form

1170
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,159
of the truth that they remembered from their ancestors back,

1171
01:02:31,239 --> 01:02:33,199
you know, in the ancient era. But what happens is

1172
01:02:33,239 --> 01:02:36,119
that over time it gets corrupted, It sort of fades.

1173
01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:39,639
People start to worship, you know, the things of the earth,

1174
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:43,280
they worship the demons, et cetera, and that message gets perverted.

1175
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,119
But there's still some truths in those religions. So I

1176
01:02:46,119 --> 01:02:49,480
think that that sort of understanding it from that perspective,

1177
01:02:49,519 --> 01:02:52,360
which is kind of unique to our view that proto Christianity.

1178
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,360
There's another book that touches on this from the sort

1179
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,800
of the Eastern perspective, which is a christ the Eternal

1180
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,840
dal written by one of the students so Father Starved

1181
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:01,800
from Rose, where he talks about how you can find

1182
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,599
a lot of the orthodox Christian ideas even in like

1183
01:03:04,719 --> 01:03:08,480
Taoism and Confucianism and so forth, precisely because there is

1184
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:10,719
perhaps this proto Christianity.

1185
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So when I go around to Eastern

1186
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,360
Asian countries, for example, Indonesia, these sorts of different places,

1187
01:03:18,639 --> 01:03:22,079
and when I always notice that there is a lot

1188
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:26,400
of demon worship going on they actually create, Like when

1189
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,280
I was in Bali, they do this day of Silence

1190
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:31,880
and they literally create effigies of demons and they walk

1191
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,599
them around the street, and I was taking photos of

1192
01:03:34,639 --> 01:03:36,400
them because it all made sense to me after I'd

1193
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,800
heard this sort of information. They walk them around the

1194
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,320
street in order to cleanse the island of bad spirits,

1195
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,719
and then they will burn the demons. And it's this

1196
01:03:47,159 --> 01:03:50,360
warfare where they seem like terrorized by the demons, and

1197
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,679
it just seems like a very It just seems like

1198
01:03:52,679 --> 01:03:55,840
a crazy religion to be subscribed to, because Christianity, we

1199
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,360
believe that we obviously have power over these demons, but

1200
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,840
these people they like terrorized by them. It's like a

1201
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,960
fight against them. But we still have that fight against demons,

1202
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,440
but it's just so pervasive in these Eastern religions.

1203
01:04:09,159 --> 01:04:11,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the things that happened when

1204
01:04:11,599 --> 01:04:14,000
you have the perversion of the religion, whether it's in

1205
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,519
the ancient world or now, like, what happens is that

1206
01:04:16,599 --> 01:04:19,000
you end up, as Paul says in the New Testament,

1207
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:22,599
you kind of fall prey to being subservient to the

1208
01:04:22,679 --> 01:04:26,360
thing that you're worshiping. So when man turns away from God,

1209
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,199
and as he says in Romans One, you worships and

1210
01:04:28,239 --> 01:04:30,880
serves the creation rather than the Creator, you end up

1211
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,400
being enslaved to that. And that enslavement is, as the

1212
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:36,599
Church Fathers would say, really rooted in a kind of

1213
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:40,519
demonic power or activity. So you might be worshiping the stars,

1214
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:43,559
or you might be worshiping a totem figure, or you

1215
01:04:43,639 --> 01:04:46,159
might be an animist or whatever, but behind that worship

1216
01:04:46,199 --> 01:04:50,159
there is some sort of an enslavement entrapment that entraps

1217
01:04:50,199 --> 01:04:52,960
the spirit and the mind into thinking that you must

1218
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:57,360
placate these lesser powers and lesser deities and forces in

1219
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:01,239
order to get what you want harvest, you know, the

1220
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,519
crops next season. And so when you do that, it

1221
01:05:04,719 --> 01:05:07,119
just really it's it's worse off for you. And that's

1222
01:05:07,159 --> 01:05:10,639
the irony is that people, i think, think that, just

1223
01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,679
like with the transhumanists, they think, in this bargain, I'll

1224
01:05:13,719 --> 01:05:16,559
get something special out of this, I'll get to be God.

1225
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,599
But it's the same kind of in paganism, you're placating

1226
01:05:20,679 --> 01:05:25,199
these deities through rituals or rites or even perhaps self harm.

1227
01:05:25,519 --> 01:05:28,000
At times you have to do that, like in you know,

1228
01:05:28,159 --> 01:05:30,159
some of the shamanic or voodoo traditions, you have to

1229
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:33,039
actually hurt yourself to get the spirits to give you

1230
01:05:33,079 --> 01:05:35,800
what you want. And you know, all of that is

1231
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:39,440
just enslavement, as the New Testament says, and so Christ

1232
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:42,960
sets us free and we're not in bondage to any

1233
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,159
of the lesser elements, lesser deities, et cetera.

1234
01:05:48,159 --> 01:05:50,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, the time I was doing my friend was

1235
01:05:50,239 --> 01:05:51,679
doing a breath well, I don't know if I told

1236
01:05:51,679 --> 01:05:52,519
this to you, maybe.

1237
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,119
Speaker 2: I told you to tell me about that.

1238
01:05:54,639 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that when I were doing the breath work thing,

1239
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,920
and then to demonic. Yeah, yeah, they saying that we're

1240
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:02,639
going to welcome in the spirits and I just sort

1241
01:06:02,639 --> 01:06:04,000
of like, what the fuck? They said, We're going to

1242
01:06:04,039 --> 01:06:07,840
welcome in the femine goddesses. But it in yeah, there

1243
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:08,760
was a big red flag.

1244
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 2: But in you were in the gay program too, Yeah,

1245
01:06:14,079 --> 01:06:14,599
just briefly.

1246
01:06:14,639 --> 01:06:18,559
Speaker 1: I got out of there. But like the thing was

1247
01:06:18,599 --> 01:06:21,440
though that they are always really consciously aware of this

1248
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,960
as well. They're like, really be careful when you're doing

1249
01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:26,079
the meditation, because you don't want to welcome in the

1250
01:06:26,079 --> 01:06:29,800
wrong sort of spirits. And it's like, well, when I pray,

1251
01:06:30,679 --> 01:06:32,239
I guess I don't really have to worry about that

1252
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,360
so much, but Christians do still have to worry about

1253
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:35,920
that sort of like we were talking about before about

1254
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,480
apparitions and these sorts of things, we do still have

1255
01:06:38,519 --> 01:06:40,800
to worry about that demonic influence. Like what's the what's

1256
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:41,840
the actual difference there?

1257
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:49,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard a couple Orthodox priests and spiritual advisors

1258
01:06:49,159 --> 01:06:51,920
kind of make an analogy to one of the main

1259
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,320
difference is that a lot of times when a person

1260
01:06:54,679 --> 01:06:58,159
is serious about Orthodoxy, they've come into the church, this

1261
01:06:58,239 --> 01:07:00,840
kind of an experience tends to be more actial to them,

1262
01:07:01,559 --> 01:07:04,119
and before a person's in the church, a lot of

1263
01:07:04,159 --> 01:07:06,800
times these manifestations can be more internal, Right, So there

1264
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:09,519
was actually sort of the spirit within a person, these

1265
01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:12,960
manifestations kind of coming out of the person up to

1266
01:07:13,079 --> 01:07:15,360
like full on possession. Because like you, I mean, I've

1267
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:19,559
been around people sort of in meditation, New Age intentional

1268
01:07:19,639 --> 01:07:23,880
type settings, or guys that were like experimenting with shrooms

1269
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,599
and that kind of stuff. My own had a bad

1270
01:07:26,639 --> 01:07:29,079
trip when I was I think seventeen, So you know,

1271
01:07:29,519 --> 01:07:32,719
my assessment to those experiences is definitely that there was

1272
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,679
definitely something internal people were manifesting, speaking in other voices

1273
01:07:37,199 --> 01:07:42,119
very sort of you know, almost animalistic types of aggression

1274
01:07:42,239 --> 01:07:44,679
and voices that people would would have when they were

1275
01:07:44,679 --> 01:07:48,679
on these bad trips. Something else was running the ship,

1276
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,800
you know what I mean. So I think, you know,

1277
01:07:52,079 --> 01:07:54,360
demons is a perfect explanation of that. But I think

1278
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,039
when you're serious about Christianity, it's not so much that

1279
01:07:57,079 --> 01:07:59,639
the demons kind of manifest in that way, because you're

1280
01:07:59,679 --> 01:08:03,480
probably not going to be tripping shrooms, but you know

1281
01:08:03,519 --> 01:08:06,599
you're going to be battling more so with external temptations,

1282
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,159
you know, to lust or to whatever.

1283
01:08:10,079 --> 01:08:13,199
Speaker 1: Right, right, All right, man, Well let's read a few

1284
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:14,480
of these super chats out and then I want to

1285
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:18,000
get more into debate, talk into debate, tapic tactics, these

1286
01:08:18,039 --> 01:08:22,199
sorts of things. Mighty Maximus, a great supporter of the channel, says,

1287
01:08:22,239 --> 01:08:24,199
this is a great collab, Jay, You're a legend. Great

1288
01:08:24,239 --> 01:08:26,800
interview so far, Jake, Thank you very much, sir. Mighty

1289
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,640
Maximus also said, send another twenty for the mods and

1290
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,039
twenty for the chat, Thank you very much. Man Witzius

1291
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,199
sent five Rattlesneak TV memberships much appreciated, and so did

1292
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:42,239
Michael the Pilot be safe up there. Michael real Reign

1293
01:08:42,279 --> 01:08:44,840
says ten for ten. Hey, Jay, one thing I wanted

1294
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:46,600
to ask you is why do you think it was

1295
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,439
so easy for Christianity to spread through Scandinavian pagan European countries.

1296
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:57,159
Speaker 2: It's a good question. I mean, the only thing I

1297
01:08:57,159 --> 01:08:59,880
can think of that immediately comes to mind is that

1298
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,479
there was a lot of there's a lot of Christianization

1299
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,039
of the literature that happened by the monastic communities at

1300
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:11,279
that time. And we actually study this in one of

1301
01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:15,680
my grad lit classes, that the monastic groups that were

1302
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,399
missionizing those people would actually take their myths and they

1303
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:21,960
would kind of put Christian themes and elements in that.

1304
01:09:22,239 --> 01:09:25,279
We even see that with today's version of Bilwolf's The

1305
01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:29,039
Bowolf Story, which most scholars believe had you know, some

1306
01:09:29,159 --> 01:09:31,920
Christian revisions. We don't actually know what the original Beowolf

1307
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:33,920
story was, because what we have is a sort of

1308
01:09:34,079 --> 01:09:37,760
pseudo quasi Christian story. It's the same with Odin. I mean,

1309
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,720
I think Odin dies on a tree, you know, this

1310
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,479
kind of stuff. I think the monks were using their

1311
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,880
myths would be my guess.

1312
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: Right right, Joel says, I'm Coptic orthodox and we reject

1313
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:54,520
the Calcedonian definition of two separate nature. Do you believe

1314
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,039
the Coptic position is illogical of a unified nature?

1315
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 2: It is, and you know nature's you can't have two

1316
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,119
things be a nature because the nature is what it

1317
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:11,079
is to be that thing. That's the Aristotelian definition of

1318
01:10:11,079 --> 01:10:14,079
a nature. And so there's no such thing as a

1319
01:10:14,159 --> 01:10:17,920
tertiam quid divino human nature. We do believe in a

1320
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,960
real ontological change in the human nature of Christ. But

1321
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,640
you can go watch my lecture series that myself, David

1322
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,960
Urhan and Kai from Orthodoxia Hota. We're about five lectures

1323
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,119
into critiquing Oriental Orthodoxy.

1324
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,279
Speaker 1: And the cut says, this has been a fantastic, fantastic interview.

1325
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:37,760
I'm a fan of both Jake and Jay. Do we

1326
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:39,800
get to see you guys team up in a debate

1327
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:40,560
anytime soon?

1328
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,039
Speaker 2: I'd love to. I mean, I've watched Jake's debates. I've

1329
01:10:44,079 --> 01:10:46,399
seen two or three. I think Jake's a good debater,

1330
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:50,039
very talented, he does really well. Super smart dude. So

1331
01:10:50,399 --> 01:10:51,720
I mean I'm always don Yah.

1332
01:10:52,279 --> 01:10:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks man, I appreciate that.

1333
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 2: If we can find somebody that would's hard to find. Opponent.

1334
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Yeah, something like a feminism debate

1335
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:00,520
would be all that would be fun team up on

1336
01:11:01,359 --> 01:11:04,319
all right, man, So speaking of debate something that I've

1337
01:11:04,359 --> 01:11:07,239
gotten into just the last few years. It helps me

1338
01:11:07,319 --> 01:11:10,399
to understand the world when you when and it helps

1339
01:11:10,399 --> 01:11:12,199
me to be able to think through ideas when you

1340
01:11:12,279 --> 01:11:14,880
learn the rules of debate, because one of the things

1341
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,039
that you always do when you're debating is you'll call

1342
01:11:17,079 --> 01:11:19,840
out logical fallacies. And people find that annoying when they

1343
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,279
watch you, if they're if they're not really a debate

1344
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,239
somebody who understands debate because they're like, oh, this guy's

1345
01:11:25,279 --> 01:11:27,840
just so focused on semantics. But that's the rules of

1346
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,119
the game. That's like, if the debate was a chessboard,

1347
01:11:30,359 --> 01:11:32,800
you can't just grab your castle and move diagonally. That's

1348
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:34,520
against the rules. And if somebody does, they're going to

1349
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,159
be like, hey, put your castle back. You can't do that.

1350
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,479
So it helps me to understand and think through ideas. Right,

1351
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:41,680
So if there's something that I'm trying to figure out

1352
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,760
is this true? Is this false? You can you can

1353
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:46,479
sort of attack it from a few different angles and

1354
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:50,640
find fallacies and find flaws in the argumentation. So what

1355
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:55,439
are the first steps for understanding debate from the casual observer.

1356
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,079
Speaker 2: You made the first point, which is step number one,

1357
01:12:01,159 --> 01:12:05,439
just to realize that it's not just a domain of

1358
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:10,399
playing a game, or it's not semantics and wordplay. It's

1359
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:14,520
not about who can be louder or talk more or whatever.

1360
01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:17,439
None of that is really what debate is. Debate is,

1361
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:21,439
like you said, best compared to a chess game, chess match,

1362
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,479
or some sort of game where there's rules and everybody's

1363
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,119
bound by the same rules. And even if you don't

1364
01:12:27,159 --> 01:12:31,039
recognize that as an opponent, and if your opponent doesn't

1365
01:12:31,039 --> 01:12:34,680
recognize that, that's actually an advantage that you have, right

1366
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:37,319
because if you know the rules of the game well

1367
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,920
enough and your opponent doesn't, even if they don't believe

1368
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:44,079
that there's rules, you can actually demonstrate to them that

1369
01:12:44,159 --> 01:12:47,800
they're making a huge mistake on their own terms. So

1370
01:12:48,119 --> 01:12:51,319
it's very effective first and foremost to learn at the

1371
01:12:51,319 --> 01:12:54,880
informal fallacies. You're not going to necessarily memorize all of them,

1372
01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:57,239
but you need to know some of the most basic

1373
01:12:57,359 --> 01:13:01,279
ones that happen all the time because you'll notice those

1374
01:13:01,359 --> 01:13:04,640
happen in not just debate settings, which most people probably

1375
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,760
aren't in a debate setting, but they happen in mass media.

1376
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,840
They happen in conversations that you're having with your spouse.

1377
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,119
They happen when you're at Thanksgiving dinner and your uncle's

1378
01:13:15,159 --> 01:13:17,039
trying to argue for you know why we need to

1379
01:13:17,079 --> 01:13:22,319
go into war somewhere, right, Because propaganda relies on fallacies,

1380
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:27,239
So deconstructing media or war propaganda requires that you know

1381
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,359
basic reasoning skills too, For example, not fall into a

1382
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:34,159
non sequitur. That's one of the most common fallacies, and

1383
01:13:34,199 --> 01:13:36,279
to just recognize and know that one would get you

1384
01:13:36,359 --> 01:13:37,880
way out of the game, because a lot of times

1385
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,800
people will, let's say, Candace is just a case example,

1386
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,640
and that we've moved on in the conversation. But one

1387
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:46,239
of the things that keeps happening in Candace's assessments is

1388
01:13:46,359 --> 01:13:49,079
non sequiturs. In other words, she will say a series

1389
01:13:49,119 --> 01:13:52,079
of things that may or may not be true or

1390
01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:55,920
partially true, and then she has a conclusion on the

1391
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,159
basis of these pieces of data or evidence that don't

1392
01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:03,279
necessarily But if the audience is a bunch of wine

1393
01:14:03,319 --> 01:14:06,079
moms and they're not perceptive enough to catch that they're

1394
01:14:06,119 --> 01:14:09,520
gonna oh yeah, honey, she was rat when she said, well,

1395
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,399
it doesn't follow from the fact that this guy was

1396
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:15,279
at the base in you know, Fort Wichuka, and this

1397
01:14:15,399 --> 01:14:20,479
guy is on the you know record causing a disturbance

1398
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,239
at the base and they arrested him, and that this

1399
01:14:23,359 --> 01:14:25,800
other guy happened to be there the same day at

1400
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:29,159
the base. It doesn't follow from those three things that

1401
01:14:29,359 --> 01:14:31,960
there was a planned assassination of Charlie Kirk. So, in

1402
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:37,000
other words, it's not saying it didn't happen necessarily, it's

1403
01:14:37,039 --> 01:14:40,159
just simply saying that you cannot conclude logically from those

1404
01:14:40,159 --> 01:14:44,119
three things that necessarily Charlie Kirk was assassinated or the

1405
01:14:44,279 --> 01:14:47,720
assassination was planned there on those pieces of data, it

1406
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,600
just does simply doesn't follow. And a lot of people

1407
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,239
will think when you say non sequitor that it means, oh,

1408
01:14:53,239 --> 01:14:55,760
you're saying that it didn't happen, you know. No, it's

1409
01:14:55,800 --> 01:15:00,199
just simply saying that you cannot conclude that. Okay, And

1410
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:02,399
you guys probably noticed there's a guy who's been doing

1411
01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:06,000
a lot of debates lately, Alex Soren, and he's an

1412
01:15:06,079 --> 01:15:08,960
Orthodox apologist who's got getting an audience recently because he's

1413
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:13,359
a lawyer. And so lawyers, for example, are almost kind

1414
01:15:13,359 --> 01:15:16,880
of intuitively familiar with a lot of these ideas because

1415
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,479
even if they didn't study logic or logical fallacies in

1416
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,880
you know, college or law school, like, they're still using

1417
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,199
the same principles even if they don't know the words, right,

1418
01:15:25,319 --> 01:15:28,479
Because if you're in a courtroom, right, and well we've

1419
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,880
all watched law movies or courtroom dramas, it's doing the

1420
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,680
same stuff. You're you're saying, you know, okay, you've got

1421
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:39,319
this testimony that you were at the house and you

1422
01:15:39,359 --> 01:15:41,840
know somebody saw you walking in and the murder happened

1423
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:45,359
that night. Right, Is that enough to conclude therefore you

1424
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:47,319
are the murder you're guilty? Well, of course not. You

1425
01:15:47,359 --> 01:15:52,239
need more than circumstantial evidence to prove or demonstrate guilt.

1426
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:55,600
So likewise, you're going to be using these same strategy

1427
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,920
and techniques in debate that are again just kind of

1428
01:15:59,119 --> 01:16:02,319
an extension of something like a courtroom.

1429
01:16:02,039 --> 01:16:05,279
Speaker 1: Right, right, So those are like the logical It is

1430
01:16:05,319 --> 01:16:07,680
so true though, when you do look at law and

1431
01:16:08,039 --> 01:16:10,159
the court room, you do have to be aware of

1432
01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:12,119
non sequitis, even if you don't know it's a non

1433
01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:16,119
sequitur that doesn't logically follow. Therefore that's not sufficient evidence.

1434
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,359
So all right, so learning the basics the chess match.

1435
01:16:20,199 --> 01:16:22,600
This is something because over the years of my channel,

1436
01:16:23,399 --> 01:16:26,359
I've dived into debates. I'm just a bit interested in it.

1437
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,880
And then you start to view things very differently when

1438
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,560
you look at this from this paradigm. So when I

1439
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,840
was a teenager, I used to love the hitch Slat videos,

1440
01:16:35,359 --> 01:16:40,840
the Christopher Hitchins shutting down Christian and then eventually, when

1441
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:43,399
you sort of understand the chess board, you realize, oh,

1442
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:45,520
that was just an appeal to emotion, or that was

1443
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,920
an appeal to authority, or that was just an anecdote,

1444
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:51,920
that wasn't actually a logical argument. And then the Christians,

1445
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,640
who are a bit more mild mannered will be making

1446
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:58,279
logical arguments. And even though Hitchins is very charismatic and

1447
01:16:58,319 --> 01:17:00,880
he's got that English charm and wit and everything, he

1448
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:03,199
actually wasn't making good arguments. It was just a series

1449
01:17:03,239 --> 01:17:05,159
of appeals to emotion and just rhetoric.

1450
01:17:06,319 --> 01:17:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember watching, and you know, I enjoy watching

1451
01:17:09,399 --> 01:17:12,359
some of your debate reviews and streams as well. I

1452
01:17:12,359 --> 01:17:18,560
remember watching the Sam Harris. I can't remember if it

1453
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:21,720
was Sam Harris versus I want to say maybe William

1454
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,439
Lane Craig. But that's a classic debate example that's good

1455
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:27,720
to review if you're new to this topic or you're interested,

1456
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:32,319
because in that debate, Sam Harris really just constantly flexes

1457
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:36,199
another version of emotional appeal. The whole debate is just

1458
01:17:36,279 --> 01:17:40,920
him saying, basically, I could never support a religion where

1459
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:46,079
this is how women are treated, and could you imagine

1460
01:17:46,279 --> 01:17:49,119
being in the Middle East and you see this poor,

1461
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,960
you know, child and having to deal with this. And

1462
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:55,680
none of that was an actual argument. It was all

1463
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:59,199
again just intended to emotionally elicit a response in the

1464
01:17:59,239 --> 01:18:02,079
audience so that you felt like Sam Harris was making

1465
01:18:02,079 --> 01:18:05,560
a really powerful case. And emotions are very powerful, especially

1466
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:10,359
in propaganda and advertising in movies, but they're the exact

1467
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:15,399
opposite in debate. Right, they have no authority in debate whatsoever.

1468
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:17,680
But so many people are trapped in that they think

1469
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:19,880
that the way that they feel about a subject of

1470
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:21,399
the way that the thing made in the argument made

1471
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:23,239
them feel. Or this is why you see, for example,

1472
01:18:23,279 --> 01:18:26,039
so many people get hung up on the way Andrew

1473
01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:28,199
debates or the way that I debate, or the way

1474
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:30,079
that you debated somebody. Oh you, but you were so

1475
01:18:30,199 --> 01:18:32,760
aggressive and you talked loud, Okay, But none of that

1476
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:34,760
has anything to do with whether what I said was

1477
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:38,239
true or false. You may not like it, but again,

1478
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:41,520
this is another common one. This is called a psychological report.

1479
01:18:42,319 --> 01:18:44,159
The fact that you weren't convinced, the fact that you

1480
01:18:44,199 --> 01:18:46,840
didn't like it, the fact that you found this unconvincing,

1481
01:18:47,279 --> 01:18:49,520
has nothing to do with whether it's true false. It's

1482
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:54,479
simply a psychological report, totally irrelevant, right, I mean, imagine

1483
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,399
being in the courtroom and right like and you say, well,

1484
01:18:57,399 --> 01:19:01,920
you know, your honor, I don't really find the you know,

1485
01:19:02,039 --> 01:19:09,319
prosecution's interrogation of me very convinsing. Okay, so what Yeah,

1486
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:11,279
So in the same way, you'll notice, like a lot

1487
01:19:11,279 --> 01:19:14,479
of a lot of debate is really just kind of

1488
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:18,239
filtering out the noise and getting to what's actually being

1489
01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:22,520
said and divorcing that from you know, everybody knows about

1490
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,439
at hominem, right like, well, you know what, Jake, you

1491
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:28,600
made some really interesting points, but you cheated on your wife,

1492
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,760
so I don't really have to listen to anything you say.

1493
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,600
That's an that's a fallacy, right, because Jake's cheating on

1494
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,920
his wife, not that he did, but would have nothing

1495
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,359
to do would have nothing to do with whether the

1496
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,279
argument that he said about this or that was true.

1497
01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:45,760
And and and sometimes there are exceptions which I think

1498
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:49,439
really low tier noubs don't realize, like there would be

1499
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:52,840
an exception. For example, if we were debating whether Jake

1500
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,560
cheated on his wife, then it would be appropriate to

1501
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,880
bring in the evidence or the arguments that he cheated, right,

1502
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,359
That wouldn't be at horminim. So there are some you know,

1503
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,560
anomalies which are in the minority where you would have

1504
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,800
to be against the man, But that wouldn't be a fallacy.

1505
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:09,640
That would be just the nature of what we're debating.

1506
01:20:10,159 --> 01:20:13,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, And also for example the Mitch snow thing, because

1507
01:20:13,039 --> 01:20:15,800
that was purely relying on his sort of eyewitness testimony.

1508
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:18,359
There wasn't exactly there wasn't any evidence there. It was

1509
01:20:18,399 --> 01:20:20,840
just like, is this guy a reliable source? And people

1510
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,039
were saying, well, it doesn't matter about all of the

1511
01:20:23,079 --> 01:20:25,359
other fraud things that he's done, because you know it

1512
01:20:25,359 --> 01:20:28,039
doesn't it doesn't like sort of necessarily say whether it's

1513
01:20:28,039 --> 01:20:30,279
true or false. But it's like, no, no, no, his character

1514
01:20:30,399 --> 01:20:32,279
and his past here is really the only thing that

1515
01:20:32,279 --> 01:20:33,000
we can go off.

1516
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 2: No, that's actually that's a great analogy to where you

1517
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:40,159
would want to get into the credibility of the witness.

1518
01:20:40,199 --> 01:20:43,640
In other words, when we're have a situation where as

1519
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:45,399
Candice was doing, and she was sort of hinging a

1520
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,600
lot of her position on the star witness, and then

1521
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:52,159
if the star witness's testimony and life is not credible,

1522
01:20:53,039 --> 01:20:55,520
that means his arguments and his claims are not credible.

1523
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,199
And that's exactly what would happen in the courtroom, right

1524
01:20:58,279 --> 01:21:00,479
if you watch any I mean I'm not a law

1525
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:04,000
courtroom person, but if you watch any courtroom drama, right,

1526
01:21:04,399 --> 01:21:09,600
you get the lawyer will try to question the credibility

1527
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:12,760
of the claims of the person, right. So that's absolutely

1528
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,439
totally not ad hominem. Right. I mean, if somebody had

1529
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:21,640
said Mitch knows arguments and claims are false because he

1530
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:25,039
cheated on his wife, that might be an ad hominem.

1531
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,800
But if we're saying Mitch is not a credible person

1532
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:32,159
because he has a history of lying and not being credible,

1533
01:21:32,239 --> 01:21:34,359
that's not an ad hominem. Right.

1534
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,279
Speaker 1: So when I I'm going to use a boxing analogy here, right,

1535
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,600
So in my years in the gym, some of the

1536
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,199
biggest there's always mistakes that you see with guys who

1537
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:45,079
are coming up and wanted to do fights, and even

1538
01:21:45,079 --> 01:21:47,680
the younger guys who want to become pro. Sometimes they'll

1539
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,640
get a bit sidetracked. They'll be focusing on girls too much,

1540
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,239
and they'll be focusing on partying too much, this sort

1541
01:21:53,239 --> 01:21:55,760
of thing. Sometimes they're a bit too cocky in the gym.

1542
01:21:56,199 --> 01:21:59,359
They just like have their guard down all the time,

1543
01:21:59,399 --> 01:22:01,479
don't think that they need to work on defense, and

1544
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,760
then they'll get caught a lot early career. If you

1545
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:07,520
get caught a lot. Sometimes they'll rely too much on

1546
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,119
aggression and power and these sorts of things. There are

1547
01:22:10,159 --> 01:22:12,680
all different kinds of mistakes that people make in a

1548
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:18,079
boxing format that will make them ultimately not be able

1549
01:22:18,119 --> 01:22:19,960
to live up to their potential. Or sometimes you just

1550
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:21,600
see things and you're like, you're just not cut out

1551
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:24,199
for this because your attitude is just wrong, or because

1552
01:22:24,239 --> 01:22:26,479
you just don't work hard enough, any of these types

1553
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,399
of things. So, what are some of the things that

1554
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:31,000
you see in terms of debaters that you think are

1555
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:32,880
some of the most common mistakes.

1556
01:22:33,359 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 2: Great analogy, great question. A lot of times people think

1557
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:41,119
that you can win every debate with some kind of

1558
01:22:41,119 --> 01:22:43,960
easy trick, like, h if I just learned the basics

1559
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:47,359
of presubpositional apologetics or the transcenental argument, I can just

1560
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:50,399
use that trick on everybody. And that might work for

1561
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:53,359
a lot of you know, normy co workers, or you

1562
01:22:53,359 --> 01:22:56,199
know somebody that you're debating with at the coffee shop

1563
01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:59,199
or the bar and they don't know anything about philosophy,

1564
01:22:59,279 --> 01:23:01,680
But that's not going to work if you debate somebody

1565
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,720
more sophisticated, you know, in a debate setting, right, or

1566
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,840
if you're you know, your atheist buddy says, oh, come

1567
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:10,119
talk to my friend, he's a professor, and you try

1568
01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:12,520
your TAG argument on my professor, buddy, that's probably not

1569
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:14,680
going to work because the professor is going to know

1570
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,760
a lot more things about you know, problems and philosophy

1571
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:21,039
problems in that type of argumentation, and they'll probably be

1572
01:23:21,079 --> 01:23:22,359
able to trip you up. So a lot of people,

1573
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,079
I think, get a little cocky when they learn tag

1574
01:23:25,159 --> 01:23:26,760
really quick, and then they think that they can just

1575
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,399
run that on anybody, and they don't know a lot

1576
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:31,800
more about epistemology. So I would say it's it's good

1577
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:35,840
to ground yourself in you know, some basics of epistemology.

1578
01:23:36,239 --> 01:23:38,600
I would say, read something like W. J. Wood's book

1579
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,319
on a Pistemology. It's very readable, it's very short. That

1580
01:23:41,359 --> 01:23:43,479
would help you with debate. I would so go back

1581
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,239
and listen to all of doctor Greg Monson's debates, because

1582
01:23:46,239 --> 01:23:48,800
he's a master at the craft. He's probably one of

1583
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:51,920
the best in the last century at debating. I'm not

1584
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,079
a Calvinist, but he was just I think everybody recognized

1585
01:23:54,119 --> 01:23:55,239
he was just an amazing debater.

1586
01:23:56,079 --> 01:23:59,079
Speaker 1: And would they that you said before the epistemology.

1587
01:23:58,399 --> 01:24:03,520
Speaker 2: Book you Jay would And it's just called a pistemology.

1588
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,560
It's part of the it's it's part of a series

1589
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:08,800
for the name of the series. But his installment's good.

1590
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:10,680
And if you want something that's a little more advanced,

1591
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:13,279
it's more of a grad school text on epistemology. It's

1592
01:24:13,359 --> 01:24:18,159
a Bonjour's text on a pistemology. It's a green text

1593
01:24:18,159 --> 01:24:22,159
by Bonjour. It's commonly used in grad programs. So those

1594
01:24:22,159 --> 01:24:25,239
are those are pretty good. But a lot of people

1595
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,840
don't know anything about epistemology. And they think, well, I

1596
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:30,039
can debate and do you know, learn a few of

1597
01:24:30,039 --> 01:24:32,479
the fallacies, and then I can do go to these debates,

1598
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:37,119
and you're gonna do a lot better if you, you know,

1599
01:24:37,359 --> 01:24:40,199
learn the basics, kind of like you give the analogy

1600
01:24:40,239 --> 01:24:43,319
to boxing or to fighting, or you know. It's like

1601
01:24:43,359 --> 01:24:48,439
I could learn guitar and and memorize a solo, right,

1602
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:50,800
but I'm not going to be able to play in

1603
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:54,840
every band and jam with them knowing that one solo. Right,

1604
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,319
You got to learn the basic chord structures. You need

1605
01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:02,479
to learn, you know, chord progressions, all these different things

1606
01:25:03,359 --> 01:25:05,720
that are actually going to make you a debater. And

1607
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:07,960
so it's the same. I think in this domain it's

1608
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:09,880
a lesser known art, but it is an art form

1609
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:11,840
and it is part of You need to know rhetoric.

1610
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:13,239
In other words, you need to be able to have

1611
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:18,159
a good degree of communication skills that are going to help.

1612
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:21,720
So I would focus on some public speaking stuff, learning

1613
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:23,079
a little bit of that too, if you want to

1614
01:25:23,079 --> 01:25:26,560
be serious about debating. But to go back to that

1615
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,399
main point of another thing that I've seen people make

1616
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,640
major mistakes. This is a huge one even for the

1617
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:33,920
people that are out doing pop debates. They're really bad

1618
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:38,279
about this, and that is not understanding and steal manning

1619
01:25:38,279 --> 01:25:43,039
the opponent's position. The way to win every debate is

1620
01:25:43,079 --> 01:25:45,840
to first of all, want to lose. And I know

1621
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:48,239
that sounds kind of corny, but I'm being serious because

1622
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,640
I want to be committed to the truth to the

1623
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:54,800
extent that if I'm wrong, I actually want to be wrong,

1624
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,399
and if the opponent is correct, then I actually want

1625
01:25:58,399 --> 01:26:00,000
to lose because I want to be on the right side.

1626
01:26:00,119 --> 01:26:03,159
So you have to first and foremost want and love truth.

1627
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:05,720
If you're out for your own gain and you're just

1628
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,880
debating for the heck of it, like, you're not going

1629
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:10,520
to get very far, and eventually you're going to lose

1630
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:12,640
because you're gonna come up against somebody who's actually smarter

1631
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:15,439
and better than you. But if you love and are

1632
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:18,399
committed to the truth, then even if you're wrong, you're

1633
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,079
still going to win because truth is what matters the most,

1634
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:23,880
and that's what debates ultimately about, even if people don't

1635
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:27,279
recognize that. So last point just simply that I see

1636
01:26:27,319 --> 01:26:31,560
so many debaters. They go into debates, they they come

1637
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:34,880
to the to the to the meeting, lazy, not knowing

1638
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,279
the other person's views, not knowing the other person's position.

1639
01:26:38,159 --> 01:26:41,039
For example, when I did all these Muslim debates, I

1640
01:26:41,079 --> 01:26:45,760
had to read the most boring, horrible Muslim texts that

1641
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:47,960
I never wanted to read, and I had to force

1642
01:26:48,039 --> 01:26:50,920
myself to do it. That's why it's a lot of work. Again,

1643
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:53,439
think about like a court case, right, a lawyer has

1644
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:56,880
to know through discovery, right and all this, like the

1645
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:01,520
other sides evidence their case. You've got to know the

1646
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:04,000
other person's position. And the way I think the way

1647
01:27:04,039 --> 01:27:07,319
Bonson always said it was something like you said, you

1648
01:27:07,359 --> 01:27:11,960
should know the opponent's position to the point that you

1649
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:15,720
could state it to their satisfaction. If you can do that,

1650
01:27:16,319 --> 01:27:18,239
you will be excellent at debate.

1651
01:27:19,039 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 1: Interesting one of the things I also I'm just going

1652
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,159
to bring it back to boxing again for a second.

1653
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:25,760
Sometimes you see somebody walk in the gym who's just

1654
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,439
got it. You know, they're quick, they have a good

1655
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,520
boxing IQ, they understand distance and range, they have a

1656
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,560
good temperament, they're not getting angry these sorts of things,

1657
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:36,439
and you're like, all right, yep, that person's got it.

1658
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,199
What are some of the things that you were recognize?

1659
01:27:38,239 --> 01:27:40,079
And if there is any debate. Is that you that

1660
01:27:40,119 --> 01:27:42,880
you know who you saw like and you were just like,

1661
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:44,600
all right, that guy's got it. And what are the

1662
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,079
what are the characteristics that you that you'd look for.

1663
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 2: Some of the unteachables being able to state your ideas

1664
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:01,399
and think quick in a in a concise way. The

1665
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:04,720
older I've gotten, I've noticed the talent and the ability

1666
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,760
to skill of being able to take complex ideas or

1667
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:12,239
to synthesize a really complex, long argument in a very quick,

1668
01:28:12,319 --> 01:28:17,399
easy way. That's crucial for audience success. So to be

1669
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:21,640
able to convince the audience of your position, even if

1670
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:25,520
it's really difficult technical ideas, that's a unique skill set

1671
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:27,399
that not everybody has. I mean, even to be able

1672
01:28:27,399 --> 01:28:29,880
to publicly speak is a skill set that not everybody.

1673
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:31,520
A lot of people are afraid of it. They're terrified of it.

1674
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:35,279
So those are some of the immediate sort of potentials

1675
01:28:35,279 --> 01:28:39,920
that you notice, I think in people, rhetoric and being

1676
01:28:40,039 --> 01:28:42,840
charismatic in a debate. What you pointed out when you

1677
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,239
and Andrew were ranking people, you know, being funny and

1678
01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:48,800
being charismatic can go a long way in a debate.

1679
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,239
I mean, you can't rest everything on that because then

1680
01:28:51,319 --> 01:28:54,199
it's just fluff and it's just noise. But to be

1681
01:28:54,359 --> 01:28:58,239
charismatic and to be funny and silly demonstrates, you know,

1682
01:28:58,279 --> 01:29:04,279
I think a very convincing element to the crowd. You'll

1683
01:29:04,399 --> 01:29:08,079
vibe with the crowd better. Being able to think on

1684
01:29:08,119 --> 01:29:13,479
your feet very quickly, obviously as a potentiality for debate,

1685
01:29:14,399 --> 01:29:16,600
and being a reader. I think being able to read

1686
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:18,640
books is a big part of it, because we live

1687
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,119
in a society where people don't debate and I mean

1688
01:29:21,159 --> 01:29:23,399
don't read, and then thus they can't debate and communicate

1689
01:29:23,399 --> 01:29:27,159
their ideas. They haven't thought hard on ideas or deeply

1690
01:29:27,199 --> 01:29:32,159
on ideas, and being able to debate without chat GPT,

1691
01:29:32,319 --> 01:29:34,680
without the Internet is also crucial. So that's another reason

1692
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:36,239
why we have to do a lot of in person

1693
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,720
or live debates now because so many people, especially on

1694
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:44,039
the left, you know, not so erudite, destiny clones. These people,

1695
01:29:44,039 --> 01:29:46,039
they've been caught, you know, trying to use chat GBT

1696
01:29:46,239 --> 01:29:48,520
in the midst of debates, and that's just cheating. I mean,

1697
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,159
imagine being you know, a chess master and you're over

1698
01:29:51,159 --> 01:29:54,359
here like asking the AI what the next best chess

1699
01:29:54,359 --> 01:29:55,600
move is? Is just retarded.

1700
01:29:56,199 --> 01:30:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Is there any like of the top top

1701
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:04,399
tier of debaters in your mind? Are there any guys

1702
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:07,359
who you look at and you're just like, damn, Like, yeah,

1703
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:11,319
that guy has really got an airtight worldview and anybody

1704
01:30:11,319 --> 01:30:14,600
would be a tough night at the office for them.

1705
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:16,560
Speaker 2: Well, there's some people that are really good at debate

1706
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:21,119
that don't have the best worldview. But I mean, I

1707
01:30:21,119 --> 01:30:23,279
think Bonson is probably the best debater, But I don't

1708
01:30:23,279 --> 01:30:25,039
think that. I mean, you have to get some pretty significant,

1709
01:30:25,079 --> 01:30:28,520
obviously flaws in his worldview. You know, Andrew is really

1710
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:32,600
good at I think andrews a silver tongue, and he's

1711
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:36,520
really good at turning the debate around, really good at

1712
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,119
internal critiques. That's, of course, you know, a thing that

1713
01:30:39,119 --> 01:30:43,520
comes out of presubscialism and tag. So you know, Andrew's great,

1714
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:49,439
Bonson is great. John Lennox is good. I think John

1715
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,800
Lennox I would have given John Lennox a higher place

1716
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:56,680
above Trent Horne honestly when you guys are ranking it.

1717
01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:59,800
But I'm trying to think of people that are just

1718
01:31:00,079 --> 01:31:02,880
really really good. I mean, it sounds kind of douchey,

1719
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:05,560
but like there's not I mean, I'll have to say

1720
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:10,039
Jim Bob, I've seen immense improvements, and Jimbob constantly impresses

1721
01:31:10,119 --> 01:31:13,000
me when he's pressing atheists and materialists. I think Jim

1722
01:31:13,039 --> 01:31:17,119
Bob is getting really good. There's a lot of potential.

1723
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:19,359
And I know Alex Soren's only done I think one

1724
01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:22,039
debate so far. He did really well in his first debate.

1725
01:31:23,159 --> 01:31:25,079
I mean, I think Chase Haggard has a lot of potential.

1726
01:31:25,079 --> 01:31:28,600
It could be really good at debate. So I mean

1727
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:31,880
I'm probably missing people. David Orhan did good in his debates.

1728
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:34,399
There's a lot of potential. But yeah, I would say

1729
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:38,319
elite tier debaters these days. You know, Honestly, Jordan Peterson,

1730
01:31:38,399 --> 01:31:40,239
if he had been more aggressive, he could have been

1731
01:31:40,279 --> 01:31:41,720
in a I feel like he really could have been

1732
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:45,520
an elite tier debater because there were so many places, well,

1733
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:47,880
there were so many points in the Matt Dill Honey

1734
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:50,119
debate or the Sam Harris debates where if he had

1735
01:31:50,119 --> 01:31:52,520
been aggressive, he could have come out and just demolished them.

1736
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:54,359
But he would always kind of get up to the

1737
01:31:54,399 --> 01:31:57,279
point and then kind of back off, probably to you know,

1738
01:31:57,399 --> 01:32:01,640
maintain friendships and relationships. So I'm not knocking him in

1739
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:04,680
some personal way. I'm just saying, like, I feel like

1740
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:07,760
he could have really been, you know, just super tear

1741
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:08,720
debate if he wanted to.

1742
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:12,079
Speaker 1: What do you think his strengths are Jordan Peterson.

1743
01:32:15,039 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 2: He's a very intelligent, quick thinker. He's very good at

1744
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:21,479
turner phrase and sort of silver tongue and able to

1745
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:28,000
synthesize those complex ideas in a very quick, clear way. Also,

1746
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:32,000
I think people overlook the fact that doing debate requires

1747
01:32:32,039 --> 01:32:36,720
the skill of improvisation. So if you've done improv, which

1748
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,359
I when I was I was actually a theater kid.

1749
01:32:40,319 --> 01:32:42,399
We used to do a lot of improv and I

1750
01:32:42,399 --> 01:32:45,279
think that actually helped thinking on my feet in debate

1751
01:32:45,359 --> 01:32:47,760
quite a bit. So that's a skill. And I think

1752
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:50,600
Jordan Peterson's good at thinking on his feet, So I

1753
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:52,880
think I think that's another key element here.

1754
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:55,560
Speaker 1: What do you think it would be the downfalls of Trent?

1755
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:57,479
For example, you said that you thought his score should

1756
01:32:57,479 --> 01:32:59,359
have been lower. What are some of the things that

1757
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:00,800
you're critical of the.

1758
01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:05,239
Speaker 2: You know, Trent Horn has had some good debates where

1759
01:33:05,239 --> 01:33:07,960
I think he performed well. He performed well against Alex O'Connor,

1760
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:11,359
he performed well against Matt Dillon, Hunty. But to be

1761
01:33:11,399 --> 01:33:14,479
honest with you, I don't think Alex and Matt are

1762
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:18,079
substantial challenges. So you know, when and I don't mean

1763
01:33:18,079 --> 01:33:20,039
this in a douchey way, but like when, So when

1764
01:33:20,079 --> 01:33:22,560
I debated Trent, you know, I brought some really hardcore,

1765
01:33:23,279 --> 01:33:26,079
intense technical material. I gave him a huge reading list.

1766
01:33:26,319 --> 01:33:28,640
I don't think you read any of it. Same with

1767
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:30,359
Tim Gordon. I don't think Tim read any of the

1768
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:34,319
of the reading list that I gave him before the debates. So, uh,

1769
01:33:34,359 --> 01:33:38,479
you know, I just think Trent has kind of he

1770
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:44,119
lacks some of the aggression that's necessary for debate. And

1771
01:33:44,239 --> 01:33:46,399
I think there's just sort of a level and I'm

1772
01:33:46,399 --> 01:33:48,720
saying this as a student of philosophy, there's sort of

1773
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:51,840
a tear and level of philosophy that if you just

1774
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:55,760
do kind of a surface level study of metaphysics and epistemology,

1775
01:33:56,319 --> 01:34:00,920
which I think Trent probably hasn't had no epistemic studies

1776
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:03,560
at all, Like, you're just not going to be able

1777
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:07,479
to deal with challenges at an epistemic level. So when

1778
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:10,000
I started asking him, for example, questions in our debate

1779
01:34:10,039 --> 01:34:14,439
about self evidence or the criterion problem, I mean, those

1780
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:18,039
are really well known fundamental issues and epistemology, and he

1781
01:34:18,159 --> 01:34:19,720
was kind of out to lunch, you know, had no

1782
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:23,840
idea really what that was. So from my perspective, I

1783
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:27,680
just think Trent, again, he's a smart guy. There's potential,

1784
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,960
but there's areas that he just doesn't want to go

1785
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:35,079
into and has kind of been kind of too passive

1786
01:34:35,279 --> 01:34:37,000
about in the last couple of years.

1787
01:34:37,399 --> 01:34:40,159
Speaker 1: Right. And then Alex O'Connor, because he's kind of seen

1788
01:34:40,359 --> 01:34:43,319
as the guy on the atheist side these days, he's

1789
01:34:43,319 --> 01:34:45,439
sort of it's almost as if he's taken the mantle

1790
01:34:45,479 --> 01:34:48,640
from the likes of Dawkins, Harris and these guys. However,

1791
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,800
he is probably a lot more charitable to Christianity and

1792
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:53,760
open minded, and it seems as though he's tried to

1793
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:56,920
sort of immerse himself in Christianity but couldn't find the belief,

1794
01:34:56,920 --> 01:35:00,279
couldn't find the faith, these sorts of things. So what

1795
01:35:00,399 --> 01:35:02,199
do you think his strengths and weaknesses?

1796
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:08,479
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess strengths would be that anybody that

1797
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:13,119
gets a significant audience, you know, has to be able

1798
01:35:13,159 --> 01:35:16,079
to handle, you know, quite a bit of opposition, and

1799
01:35:16,119 --> 01:35:18,880
not everybody can handle, you know, hundreds of thousands or

1800
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:21,640
millions of people opposing you, right, it's it's I think,

1801
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:23,640
a certain type of person that's able to handle that,

1802
01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:26,880
and not everybody can do that. So those are some strengths. Obviously,

1803
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:32,159
he's an intelligent person, he's he's a quick thinker, but

1804
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:38,079
just like with Trent, there's a really sort of vast

1805
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:43,760
lack of philosophical knowledge and depth that he he doesn't have,

1806
01:35:44,199 --> 01:35:46,399
So you know, when he comes up against somebody like

1807
01:35:46,399 --> 01:35:48,199
a John Lennox or somebody who's got more of an

1808
01:35:48,199 --> 01:35:51,439
advanced training in some of these fields, it just can't

1809
01:35:51,479 --> 01:35:54,359
do anything. And I think the Linux debate was when

1810
01:35:55,279 --> 01:35:58,199
O'Connor kind of sort of started saying, I don't know

1811
01:35:58,199 --> 01:35:59,920
if I want to do any more of these Christian debates,

1812
01:36:00,119 --> 01:36:02,239
because I was actually supposed to have a debate with

1813
01:36:02,479 --> 01:36:06,960
him on Piers Morgan and he's like, I'll pass. So

1814
01:36:07,159 --> 01:36:09,920
oh really, yeah, why do you think that I really

1815
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:13,159
wish that would have him? I think it's because, you know,

1816
01:36:13,319 --> 01:36:15,000
I mean, I'm not saying he spends a lot of

1817
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:17,920
time watching me, but I think again, anybody with a

1818
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:22,760
significant degree of philosophical understanding is not If you don't

1819
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:26,319
have that, you're just not going to perform well.

1820
01:36:25,399 --> 01:36:27,920
Speaker 1: Right, And so when you say he lacks because he

1821
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:31,359
talks about philosophy a lot and to the untrained eye,

1822
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:32,920
like even to me when I look at him, like, oh,

1823
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:35,199
this guy looks like he knows a lot about philosophy.

1824
01:36:35,359 --> 01:36:37,640
So what other areas that he's lacking?

1825
01:36:40,119 --> 01:36:43,800
Speaker 2: So, I mean, and how can I say this stuff

1826
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:46,119
sounding like a douchebag, Like if you if you've gotten it,

1827
01:36:46,239 --> 01:36:49,760
like if you did philosophy grad school type stuff, you're

1828
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:53,319
gonna notice people that may have had a few undergrad

1829
01:36:53,359 --> 01:36:55,760
classes or I don't know what his degree was, but

1830
01:36:56,079 --> 01:36:58,279
maybe he did a philosophy undergrad. I don't know. But

1831
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:01,560
part of the has to do with the education system though,

1832
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:03,560
is like a lot of the education system, even if

1833
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:05,640
you do a philosophy degree, I mean, there's a lot

1834
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:07,680
of gaps. There's a lot of things that are skipped.

1835
01:37:08,119 --> 01:37:11,640
For example, most modern philosophy programs you don't study metaphysics.

1836
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:15,439
So anybody who brings like a significant metaphysical challenge, like

1837
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:18,319
a Roman Catholic Wood or an Orthodox would to an

1838
01:37:18,319 --> 01:37:20,439
atheist debate, an atheist is not going to know what

1839
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:24,039
to say because they don't study that. And most atheists

1840
01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:28,640
and academics, even if they study philosophy, they probably didn't

1841
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,920
do an epistemology course. I mean maybe they did, maybe

1842
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:35,279
they did Enlightenment epistemology. So they're not going to know

1843
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:40,680
things like epistemic justification and what qualifies as justification. So

1844
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:45,199
those are very they're just very huge gaps that like,

1845
01:37:45,359 --> 01:37:47,680
if you don't have that, you're not going to do

1846
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:49,319
well against somebody who knows that.

1847
01:37:50,199 --> 01:37:52,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So then taking it back, So we've got the

1848
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:56,279
basics of debate and some of the better debates out there,

1849
01:37:56,279 --> 01:37:58,319
some of the flaws in some of the prominent debates

1850
01:37:58,399 --> 01:38:01,600
world views in their skill sets. How about just four

1851
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:06,680
people who are like just debate enjoyers, just debate watchers.

1852
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:09,319
They like to watch the streams, but they've never done

1853
01:38:09,319 --> 01:38:11,920
any debates in their own personal life. But they look

1854
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:13,680
at all this bullshit around them and they want a

1855
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,079
way to be able to combat them. You get some

1856
01:38:16,199 --> 01:38:19,279
wokhr lady or a lawyer lady or whatever who's telling

1857
01:38:19,279 --> 01:38:22,960
you about her worldview, and they want to just be

1858
01:38:23,039 --> 01:38:25,640
able to just fucking clap back. You know what about

1859
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:27,520
for these sorts of people, where do we start?

1860
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:34,840
Speaker 2: I would start with go listen to the Bonds and

1861
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:38,239
Stein debate about four or five times all the way through.

1862
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:42,039
Take notes and you know, when you come to words

1863
01:38:42,039 --> 01:38:45,000
that you don't understand, look them up. The first thing

1864
01:38:45,039 --> 01:38:47,000
I did when I got into debating was that was

1865
01:38:47,039 --> 01:38:49,359
the debate that got me into it. Right, So this

1866
01:38:49,399 --> 01:38:53,239
is probably about nineteen ninety nine. I listened to that

1867
01:38:53,279 --> 01:38:55,439
debate on tape, cassette tape. I think I still have

1868
01:38:55,439 --> 01:38:59,560
the cassette tape somewhere, and I listened to it multiple times.

1869
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:01,439
I started making notes and I was like, this is

1870
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:04,159
this is fascinating. I'm going to learn how he does this.

1871
01:39:04,199 --> 01:39:07,600
How does he like, you know, lead this atheist into

1872
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:09,319
a trap, you know, and kind of set him up.

1873
01:39:09,359 --> 01:39:12,039
So that's one way to begin to learn. And if

1874
01:39:12,079 --> 01:39:14,720
you just kind of just even mimicking kind of the

1875
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:17,279
way that Bonson goes about it, would you would be

1876
01:39:17,399 --> 01:39:20,800
miles ahead of everybody else probably. And I've been saying

1877
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:23,520
I'm saying like for co workers and for you know,

1878
01:39:25,119 --> 01:39:27,760
you know, family members or whoever you're arguing with or whatever,

1879
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:30,680
that's a good way to begin to learn to clap back.

1880
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:33,479
I would learn, you know, print out. There's a lot

1881
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:36,520
of colleges that have you know, websites that list the

1882
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:39,479
informal fallacies. So I would print that out and I

1883
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:42,199
would learn a few of those, the more common ones.

1884
01:39:42,279 --> 01:39:46,760
Especially you'll start noticing them in ads or in people's conversations.

1885
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:52,399
You know. I would also, you know, you can go

1886
01:39:52,479 --> 01:39:55,319
and watch some of the Oxford Union debates and those

1887
01:39:55,359 --> 01:39:57,760
are good because they're more classical style. So you'll watch

1888
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,359
people like Peter Hitchens and you'll notice the way he

1889
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:03,000
uses rhetoric. So I would I would learn from some

1890
01:40:03,079 --> 01:40:05,600
of those. Obviously, you could watch some of my debates,

1891
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:08,000
you could watch some of Jake's debates, and just see

1892
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:15,560
how we go about replying to and and clapping back.

1893
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:17,600
And one thing, for example, like if you go watch

1894
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:21,600
my Shabira La debates, one thing that people didn't notice

1895
01:40:21,640 --> 01:40:23,560
that I think some people later said, hey, I appreciate

1896
01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:27,359
that you did this was you know, when you're when

1897
01:40:27,359 --> 01:40:31,319
you're in a debate with somebody, if it's a cross examination,

1898
01:40:31,439 --> 01:40:35,800
for example, like if I'm cross examining him, I would

1899
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,680
ask him questions and he would spout out all of

1900
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:41,560
this stuff, right, and the more that he said, the

1901
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:44,760
more he was giving me information to hang him with right.

1902
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,039
But when he asked me, I would give very quick,

1903
01:40:48,119 --> 01:40:50,840
one word answers, so I didn't give a bunch of

1904
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:54,159
blah blah blah so that he could trap me with right.

1905
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:57,520
So that's a tactic, but it's a it's a tactic

1906
01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:02,079
that's useful in these kinds of engagements or in these

1907
01:41:02,119 --> 01:41:04,479
kinds of discourses. Right. So I would say you can

1908
01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:07,000
learn some of those kind of tactics. You can't rely

1909
01:41:07,119 --> 01:41:09,439
totally on tactics because if you do, it's going to

1910
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:10,920
kind of be evident, even to people that are not

1911
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:12,760
trained in debate, they're gonna be like, you're just using

1912
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:16,279
you know, tactics and tricks, dude, But you didn't. You

1913
01:41:16,319 --> 01:41:19,520
didn't need to know some strategies and tactics, even.

1914
01:41:19,359 --> 01:41:23,159
Speaker 1: Especially when they're used against you as well. Hey, absolutly, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1915
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:24,840
I'm going to read a few more super chats and

1916
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:26,800
then I've got a couple more questions for you. If

1917
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:28,159
you don't mind, you you don't have to be anywhere

1918
01:41:28,239 --> 01:41:28,560
right now to you?

1919
01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:29,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? Cool?

1920
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:35,279
Speaker 1: Thanks man? All right, great? Where are we at this?

1921
01:41:35,439 --> 01:41:39,560
There goes my black queen, says JB. Left hand assassin

1922
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:43,520
sent five. Thank you. Bachman said, for to the Goat,

1923
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:45,800
tell Jake to read the Church Fathers. I'm on it, brother,

1924
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:49,840
Thank you, Yamaha. Banshee said for j will you ever

1925
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:53,039
appear on Peers Morgan Uncensored again anytime soon? If so,

1926
01:41:53,239 --> 01:41:55,119
just make sure to not share a panel with the

1927
01:41:55,159 --> 01:41:58,319
guy named Brian Shapiro or John Fusel, saying, I would

1928
01:41:58,399 --> 01:42:00,640
love to see you debate those guys. What's he talking about.

1929
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:03,800
Speaker 2: I'm actually not familiar with who those people are, but

1930
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:07,239
I did get an email the other day saying that

1931
01:42:07,279 --> 01:42:08,800
they would like to try to get me back on

1932
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:11,439
in near future, so hopefully, but I never know who

1933
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:12,479
they're going to have me on with.

1934
01:42:13,199 --> 01:42:16,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. If those guys are on there, do it.

1935
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:22,600
Us is Branch Shapiro fuel saying would be hilarious for Jay,

1936
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:26,159
I'm just getting into EO theology. First ten writings I

1937
01:42:26,199 --> 01:42:30,840
should get into builds a good foundation. First ten writings

1938
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:32,600
I should get into to build a good foundation.

1939
01:42:33,279 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 2: I would amongst Church for others, I would read Alphonasius

1940
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:38,439
is on the Incarnation. It's very small and readable. I

1941
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:41,720
would read the Five Theological Orations by Gregory now sand Zeus,

1942
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:45,800
small and readable. I would read Mystical Theology the Eastern

1943
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:48,920
Church by Loski. It's a little more advanced, and I

1944
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:53,960
would read as part of Katechesis. A classic is Pomezanski's

1945
01:42:54,039 --> 01:42:56,279
Orthodox Dogmatic Theology.

1946
01:42:57,319 --> 01:42:59,520
Speaker 1: The cut says for ten for each of you, one

1947
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:02,000
person you would debate past or president. Can't be a

1948
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:05,159
philosopher or president. Thank you to both. For me, it

1949
01:43:05,159 --> 01:43:06,880
would probably be one of the tick It'd probably be

1950
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:10,520
like a TikTok gurn, like Harry Sisson or Dean or Parker,

1951
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:11,119
one of those.

1952
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:13,279
Speaker 2: Guys that'd be great. Yeah, I mean, I'd love to

1953
01:43:13,319 --> 01:43:22,000
debate Ben Shapiro, Alex O'Connor, Sam Harris Dawkins in any

1954
01:43:22,039 --> 01:43:23,760
of those kind of big atheist guys. I love to

1955
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:25,479
be them.

1956
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:27,800
Speaker 1: Blaine says, smash the like button, don't forget to send

1957
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:31,319
in those Super's great idea by Blaine, left handed Assassin

1958
01:43:31,359 --> 01:43:33,520
with another five and Mighty Maximus says for the goal,

1959
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:36,640
thank you, sir. Papietary comes in and says, I tried

1960
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:38,840
mimicking Jay in a debate and I got called a

1961
01:43:39,079 --> 01:43:42,359
bs n then punched in the face. I think I

1962
01:43:42,399 --> 01:43:45,000
still need to learn. Yeah, Papietarry is a way you

1963
01:43:45,039 --> 01:43:45,800
got to go about it.

1964
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:49,000
Speaker 2: You know. Well, I've actually been pushed and punched a

1965
01:43:49,039 --> 01:43:52,359
couple of times, so really the best can get heated.

1966
01:43:54,199 --> 01:43:56,720
Speaker 1: Sniper Mike sent ten. Thank you, sir, guys. We've got

1967
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:59,239
how many we've got to go. We've got ten to

1968
01:43:59,319 --> 01:44:02,600
go yellow up to get to that goal. Ten yellow

1969
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:04,520
and up. If you've enjoyed the debate, then let's hit

1970
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:08,000
that goal. Let's do it all right, Jay, So I

1971
01:44:08,039 --> 01:44:10,319
just want to talk to you quickly about the future

1972
01:44:10,319 --> 01:44:13,319
of Orthodoxy because I'm noticing a huge change. Like I

1973
01:44:13,359 --> 01:44:16,239
was messaging the other day after I left my liturgy.

1974
01:44:16,399 --> 01:44:18,199
I don't even know if it's appropriate to say on stream,

1975
01:44:18,239 --> 01:44:19,960
but that there was a bunch of guys who'd come

1976
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:22,159
up to me and I started talking to you because

1977
01:44:22,640 --> 01:44:26,479
in the Orthodox Greek Church in Australia, it's very like

1978
01:44:27,359 --> 01:44:29,880
it's like a community, and it's hard for outsiders to

1979
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,319
come in. Sometimes no one talks to them because it's

1980
01:44:32,359 --> 01:44:34,479
all like the Greek community and then the serving community

1981
01:44:34,479 --> 01:44:37,079
in the Russian community whatever, and so people are coming

1982
01:44:37,079 --> 01:44:40,039
in looking staring up at the ceiling, the beautiful icons

1983
01:44:40,079 --> 01:44:42,640
and the beautiful paintings and everything. But so we're trying

1984
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:44,560
to make an effort to talk to people more to

1985
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:47,199
people like newcomers in the church. It's their first time.

1986
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:49,399
And there was like five or six just the other

1987
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:50,520
night that I spoke to. I was like, oh, so

1988
01:44:50,600 --> 01:44:52,640
had you like had what brought you here? And they're like,

1989
01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:54,880
oh yeah, I was just watching j Dyer debates on

1990
01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:57,000
the internet and I was like, damn, like all the

1991
01:44:57,039 --> 01:45:00,520
way here in Brisbane, Australia. So I I'm seeing a

1992
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:03,239
huge amount of people who are who are looking into

1993
01:45:03,319 --> 01:45:05,920
Orthodoxy but maybe struggling a little bit when they're going

1994
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:08,359
into the church because it's like this, like no one

1995
01:45:08,399 --> 01:45:11,319
really approached. Maybe it's just in my church. I think

1996
01:45:11,319 --> 01:45:12,800
it's better in America because you have a lot more

1997
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:15,560
English speaking churches. Like in my state there's only a

1998
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:19,000
few churches that do English speaking services, which I find bizarre.

1999
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:21,640
But how are you seeing that? Are you seeing a

2000
01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:24,079
big shift towards Orthodoxy And what do you think that

2001
01:45:24,119 --> 01:45:26,239
the future of the church looks like in terms of

2002
01:45:26,279 --> 01:45:29,479
like being able to accommodate for people in different in

2003
01:45:29,479 --> 01:45:32,960
different lands and places, like your average Australian who wants

2004
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:34,760
to go and go to an Orthodox church.

2005
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:39,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a pretty wild sort of explosion of this.

2006
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:42,279
I mean even to the point of Associated Press reported

2007
01:45:42,319 --> 01:45:44,520
on it. The other day, Wall Street journals reported on it.

2008
01:45:45,359 --> 01:45:48,279
I've had mainstream media outlets reach out to try to

2009
01:45:48,319 --> 01:45:50,159
interview me. I actually always say no because I don't

2010
01:45:50,159 --> 01:45:52,760
trust like mainstream reporters. So that's happened two or three

2011
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:54,119
times where I'm like, no, I'm not talking to you.

2012
01:45:54,239 --> 01:45:57,760
But yeah, I mean, but they I think they ended up,

2013
01:45:57,960 --> 01:45:59,880
you know, talking to Father Josiahren and I think they

2014
01:46:00,079 --> 01:46:03,199
talk to maybe Pagot and some other people. But I

2015
01:46:03,239 --> 01:46:06,319
mean there is an increase, for sure, a surge. Most

2016
01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:08,800
in the in America, a lot of parishes are experiencing

2017
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:13,760
doubling or tripling. My parish in Florida, for example, I mean,

2018
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,800
we've i think tripled in the last five years. We've

2019
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:20,239
had to expand, you know, space space wise, spatially, so

2020
01:46:21,039 --> 01:46:24,079
it is happening. You know. I don't really know what

2021
01:46:24,119 --> 01:46:27,039
the experience of those kinds of churches is in other countries.

2022
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:30,840
I know that Orthodoxy is expanding quite a bit in Germany.

2023
01:46:31,239 --> 01:46:34,880
I've met a lot of German orthopros, and I hear

2024
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:37,600
a lot about Australia, so that's good. One thing I

2025
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:39,760
would say is like, yeah, a lot of times, not always,

2026
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:42,359
but a lot of times it will be an ethnic

2027
01:46:42,399 --> 01:46:48,199
community and they're they're just being themselves. And Orthodoxy is

2028
01:46:48,239 --> 01:46:51,119
not like Protestantism or megachurches where it's like, oh, we're

2029
01:46:51,159 --> 01:46:54,159
just clamoring to try, you know, to get anybody in

2030
01:46:54,239 --> 01:46:56,960
under any circumstances. Right. So it's a very different model.

2031
01:46:57,000 --> 01:46:58,720
And part of the reason for that, and it was

2032
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:02,239
little too when I first started looking into this, is

2033
01:47:02,279 --> 01:47:03,840
like they want to make they want to make sure

2034
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:07,920
that you know you're serious. That's why you don't become

2035
01:47:08,039 --> 01:47:11,760
Orthodox like at a Billy Graham crusade. When you're evangelical, right,

2036
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:13,760
you just will come on down the alta and so

2037
01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:16,560
the sims proud, we'll give you some pizza. Like it's

2038
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:18,239
not like that, right, Like, so they want to make

2039
01:47:18,279 --> 01:47:21,680
sure it's going to take you time and that kind

2040
01:47:21,680 --> 01:47:24,079
of you know, the initiative is kind of left up

2041
01:47:24,079 --> 01:47:27,279
to you. But most people's experiences, even if it's you know,

2042
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:30,399
Greek churches or whatever, like if you approach and you

2043
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:33,239
initiate and say, hey, I'm interested, I like to come

2044
01:47:33,359 --> 01:47:36,960
to inquirers classes or whatever, that's the stage you know,

2045
01:47:37,039 --> 01:47:40,000
before becoming a catechumen, and usually the catechuman period as

2046
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:43,239
anywhere from six months to three years. So it really

2047
01:47:43,279 --> 01:47:46,000
just depends on what they decide at that church. So

2048
01:47:46,079 --> 01:47:48,800
I would just say, you know, it's just not evangelicalism.

2049
01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:52,039
It's more of a uh, you know, firewall to make

2050
01:47:52,039 --> 01:47:53,399
sure that people are serious.

2051
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:56,760
Speaker 1: Right, And so for people who are inquiring and who

2052
01:47:56,800 --> 01:47:59,800
are interested in Orthodoxy but maybe a little bit intimidated

2053
01:48:00,119 --> 01:48:02,039
to go down to it's not like the Protestant churches

2054
01:48:02,039 --> 01:48:04,319
where you walk in it's very sort of like, hey,

2055
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:07,199
how I come sit down here. You know, we're going

2056
01:48:07,239 --> 01:48:10,199
to be playing some music and everyone's you know, dancing along.

2057
01:48:10,720 --> 01:48:14,239
It is a little bit more serious in the divine letogy.

2058
01:48:14,239 --> 01:48:16,079
You know, I actually really like that because when I

2059
01:48:16,119 --> 01:48:19,000
go to church, it's a very deep, like serious, contemplative

2060
01:48:19,039 --> 01:48:22,199
sort of time, and I like the aesthetic beauty and

2061
01:48:22,239 --> 01:48:24,600
the reverence and everything. I really like that sort of stuff.

2062
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:26,199
But it might be a bit different for people who

2063
01:48:26,239 --> 01:48:28,880
are even just inquiring into Christianity or people who are

2064
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:31,319
coming from a Protestant background. So what would you say

2065
01:48:31,319 --> 01:48:32,520
to those sorts of people.

2066
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is different and you got to give it time,

2067
01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:40,479
so you know, don't rush it. Never rush it. When

2068
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:42,479
I was first looking at Orthodoxy two thousand and seven,

2069
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:44,560
I was really anxious. I tried to rush it and

2070
01:48:45,399 --> 01:48:48,399
ended up like not being ready for Orthodoxy until about

2071
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:52,520
ten years later. So yeah, there's no rush. Take your time,

2072
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:56,640
you know, ask all the questions that you have, get

2073
01:48:56,640 --> 01:49:00,039
all the questions out. That's really the only thing I

2074
01:49:00,039 --> 01:49:01,159
can think of it. And you know a lot of

2075
01:49:01,159 --> 01:49:05,840
websites have kind of church decorum or etiquette, so you

2076
01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:07,720
can look up and see kind of what you know,

2077
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:11,560
the proper Orthodox Christian church etiquette is, don't come in

2078
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:14,359
there praying and you know, like an evangelical service and

2079
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:16,840
raising your hands and hooting and hollering. It's none of that.

2080
01:49:17,159 --> 01:49:23,119
So yeah, it's just it's very liturgical, which means ordered,

2081
01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:26,880
ritual based service, which is how God's always been worshiped,

2082
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:29,159
whether it's the Old Testament, you know, or that Jesus

2083
01:49:29,199 --> 01:49:31,880
when Jesus went to the synagogue, it's a very ordered

2084
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:34,920
liturgical service. Same at the temple right, and then when

2085
01:49:34,920 --> 01:49:39,239
the church was established early on, early church was liturgical always,

2086
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:42,680
So that's the way that God has laid down that

2087
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:47,279
he's worshiped, we believe. So anything that seems a little

2088
01:49:47,279 --> 01:49:49,479
weird or new. I remember the first time when I

2089
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:50,960
was a product, I was raised proudest some of the

2090
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:52,479
first time I saw relic, I was like, well, this

2091
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:55,399
is weird. You know, over time all that goes away.

2092
01:49:55,399 --> 01:49:57,600
It's not weird at all, So just just give it time.

2093
01:49:58,159 --> 01:50:00,800
Speaker 1: M Yeah. One of the things I've also noticed is

2094
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:03,560
that guys are coming in there and they've got their wives,

2095
01:50:04,079 --> 01:50:07,840
and the wives are really sort of worried about the

2096
01:50:07,920 --> 01:50:09,840
community and this sort of thing, Like they go to

2097
01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:12,119
the prost and they've got the mother's clubs and everything,

2098
01:50:12,159 --> 01:50:15,399
and you know, the Orthodox churches. Maybe it's harder to

2099
01:50:15,439 --> 01:50:18,560
break into a community and maybe they're not as focused

2100
01:50:18,560 --> 01:50:20,399
on that sort of thing. So what would you say,

2101
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:22,880
Maybe guys who are looking into it at their wives

2102
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:24,880
or girlfriends are not as interested.

2103
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:31,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that can be a challenge. I mean when I

2104
01:50:31,319 --> 01:50:34,000
first went to I got to Russian church and took

2105
01:50:34,119 --> 01:50:35,880
it took a while. It took maybe six months to

2106
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:38,239
a year before I really felt like, you know, I

2107
01:50:38,279 --> 01:50:43,000
actually have camaraderie with these people. But you know, I

2108
01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:45,760
had a really good, providentially speaking, really good spiritual father.

2109
01:50:45,880 --> 01:50:48,039
So we've always had a really good relationship and I

2110
01:50:48,079 --> 01:50:51,159
think that was a huge part of it. But for wives,

2111
01:50:51,199 --> 01:50:54,800
I think you're right. Girlfriends like they want to meet

2112
01:50:55,079 --> 01:50:58,399
the you know, other girls and have community and all that.

2113
01:50:58,479 --> 01:50:59,960
And I would say that, you know, one thing that

2114
01:51:00,159 --> 01:51:03,479
unique about Orthodox churches that's a big plus in this

2115
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:05,720
regard is that it may be different than the Greek

2116
01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:08,319
Church or I don't know, but in most American Orthodox churches,

2117
01:51:08,359 --> 01:51:10,520
like the children are a huge part of the liturgy,

2118
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:14,960
the children. Seeing the children participate that they communion, they commune.

2119
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:18,640
So that's something that I think they might be able

2120
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:22,439
to bond with other women about, especially is the kids

2121
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:25,560
and the communion aspect of it. You don't send your

2122
01:51:25,640 --> 01:51:28,199
children off to some other service or keep them away.

2123
01:51:31,159 --> 01:51:35,560
But yeah, again, you know that might be a challenge

2124
01:51:35,640 --> 01:51:37,800
in in places like where you are. I'm not sure.

2125
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:40,239
I just I'm only really familiar with the American experience,

2126
01:51:40,279 --> 01:51:43,279
so I don't know what it's like in Europe or Australia. Yeah.

2127
01:51:43,279 --> 01:51:45,920
Speaker 1: I went to Serbia a few months ago and I

2128
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:50,600
went to the Church of Saint Sava. Unbelievable, dude, Like, well,

2129
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:54,279
just they've got millions of what do they call it

2130
01:51:54,319 --> 01:51:57,399
with like when you put the paintings, but they're not paintings.

2131
01:51:57,439 --> 01:51:59,840
They're done with the little pieces of gold and pieces

2132
01:51:59,880 --> 01:52:04,119
of like mosaics, yeah, mosaics, Yeah, but there's millions of

2133
01:52:04,159 --> 01:52:06,199
pieces that go into all of the mosaics around it.

2134
01:52:06,199 --> 01:52:09,079
It's like literally unbelievable when you look at it that

2135
01:52:09,079 --> 01:52:13,520
that was all just and planning that would have gone

2136
01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:14,880
into it, and it's just beautiful.

2137
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:17,720
Speaker 2: So you've probably experienced more of the world of Orthodoxy

2138
01:52:17,720 --> 01:52:19,800
than I have because I've only been to We did

2139
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:22,880
go to a few Orthodox churches in Italy, so that

2140
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:26,199
was fascinating, but you know, I've only experienced America in Italy.

2141
01:52:26,279 --> 01:52:29,239
Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, it is fascinating. I went to a service

2142
01:52:29,279 --> 01:52:32,880
as well in Serbia there and the singing was on point.

2143
01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:34,600
Because I've only been to a few. I've been been

2144
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:36,880
to Andrew's one, been to the Greek one where I'm

2145
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:39,840
from here in Brisilan, and then been to the Serbian

2146
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:41,800
one in Belgrade as well. And this like they had

2147
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:43,960
the choir up the back and then they had the

2148
01:52:44,079 --> 01:52:45,840
church and the and the priest would say something in

2149
01:52:45,880 --> 01:52:47,319
the choir would say it, and the priest and the

2150
01:52:47,399 --> 01:52:51,560
choir like proper like great service. Everybody is standing. There's

2151
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:56,039
no seats the whole entire time. So yeah, super super cool,

2152
01:52:56,159 --> 01:53:00,199
like really really enjoy the Orthodox services. So going to

2153
01:53:00,279 --> 01:53:01,760
keep it. Let's read a feel more than you super

2154
01:53:01,840 --> 01:53:04,359
chet shall we does Brian Shapiro have time for debate,

2155
01:53:04,399 --> 01:53:07,600
considering he's constantly stalking robs his mighty maximus. I'm sure,

2156
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:10,399
I'm sure he'd do it if Piers Morgan called him again. Yeah,

2157
01:53:10,479 --> 01:53:14,199
Pa Pietary said, a dangerous loafe of bread. Wants to

2158
01:53:14,239 --> 01:53:16,640
know what got you pushed and punched over over in debate?

2159
01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:17,000
Speaker 2: Got you?

2160
01:53:17,119 --> 01:53:17,560
Speaker 1: I got you?

2161
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:22,359
Speaker 2: Bro. It was actually at a monastery, and it was

2162
01:53:22,479 --> 01:53:27,439
it was an academic conference at a Orthodox monastery, and uh,

2163
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:29,239
I just I just got there and there was this

2164
01:53:29,359 --> 01:53:33,119
sort of big, burly, sort of chunky Viking looking dude

2165
01:53:33,119 --> 01:53:37,960
who's a professor, a libertarian professor of ethics oddly enough,

2166
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:39,399
who was at this conference and he was there to

2167
01:53:39,399 --> 01:53:41,119
present a paper, and I was there, and that we

2168
01:53:41,199 --> 01:53:44,439
didn't know each other, but we started talking and I

2169
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:46,319
think everything that I was saying he was just kind

2170
01:53:46,319 --> 01:53:49,199
of interpreting it in the worst possible light, and the

2171
01:53:49,279 --> 01:53:51,600
conversation just got worse and worse, and it got more

2172
01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:53,359
and more heated, and he was starting to get really

2173
01:53:53,359 --> 01:53:57,840
red faced. And I'm this kind of person who, like, uh,

2174
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:01,760
I tend to continue like a provocation, like if somebody's

2175
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:03,439
like in my face, and like I don't like just

2176
01:54:03,520 --> 01:54:06,359
walk away like okay. And I remember saying something like,

2177
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:08,439
you know, this is an academic debate. I'm like, what

2178
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:11,239
are you actually gonna do? And that set him off

2179
01:54:11,399 --> 01:54:13,960
and he sort of it wasn't really it was like

2180
01:54:14,279 --> 01:54:15,960
it was like a he didn't really know what to do,

2181
01:54:16,039 --> 01:54:18,039
and he just sort of push punched me, and I

2182
01:54:18,079 --> 01:54:20,560
went sort of rolling over a table. And you had

2183
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:23,560
all these all these monks and nuns or like just

2184
01:54:23,600 --> 01:54:26,800
sort of like they couldn't believe that somebody punched a

2185
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:29,640
guy a at a monastery.

2186
01:54:30,720 --> 01:54:31,680
Speaker 1: Oh, that's hilarious.

2187
01:54:31,960 --> 01:54:33,680
Speaker 2: It was in nineteen I think.

2188
01:54:34,479 --> 01:54:38,359
Speaker 1: Blaine sent twenty Rattlesnake TV memberships. He's blessed twenty poles

2189
01:54:38,479 --> 01:54:41,159
with a membership. Thank you very much, Blaine. That is

2190
01:54:41,199 --> 01:54:42,239
greatly appreciated. My father.

2191
01:54:43,199 --> 01:54:45,359
Speaker 2: That was a true story, Father diacon and Ice was there.

2192
01:54:45,399 --> 01:54:47,000
He can attest. That doesn't really happened.

2193
01:54:47,279 --> 01:54:51,039
Speaker 1: He got beaten up by a hockey. Eddie Garcia sent

2194
01:54:51,119 --> 01:54:53,720
five and says I was Protestant, then atheists, then make

2195
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,359
a church and now I'm blackpilled. How can I get out?

2196
01:54:56,439 --> 01:54:58,279
I mean, Bill, in Germany.

2197
01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 2: There's a large, grow, going sizeable Orthodox population in Germany now,

2198
01:55:03,720 --> 01:55:05,880
so find a good Orthodox church. You'll find some good

2199
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:09,079
Germanic Ortho bros. Yeah.

2200
01:55:09,079 --> 01:55:14,359
Speaker 1: I was in Berlin as well, recently in September, and

2201
01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:16,840
you just got to stay away from the downtown. Like

2202
01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:18,880
Berlin is one of the most degenerate places I've ever

2203
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:20,960
been to. You go down to the downtown part and

2204
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:23,079
it's just sex, drugs and rock and roll down there,

2205
01:55:23,119 --> 01:55:26,479
So stay away from those parts. It's pretty funny.

2206
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:30,680
Speaker 2: I was gone, you know doctor David Patrick Harry, you

2207
01:55:30,680 --> 01:55:33,319
know he met his wife, Yeah out there. I think

2208
01:55:33,319 --> 01:55:36,520
she's from Austria, but you know, she was the one saying, hey,

2209
01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:39,239
there's like hundreds and hundreds of guys in Germany. They're

2210
01:55:39,239 --> 01:55:40,159
becoming Orthodox. Now.

2211
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. But yeah, I was down there at

2212
01:55:43,960 --> 01:55:46,039
the Berlin Wall and have you ever seen that that

2213
01:55:46,159 --> 01:55:49,760
mural of the two guys kissing on the Berlin Wall.

2214
01:55:50,239 --> 01:55:50,720
Speaker 2: It's like.

2215
01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:56,479
Speaker 1: This. The when the Berlin Wall fell, they did all

2216
01:55:56,479 --> 01:55:58,560
the murals on the Berlin Wall, and one of there

2217
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:00,840
is a mural of these two guys kids, and it

2218
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:04,960
was a Soviet guy and a Soviet communist and a

2219
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:09,039
German communist and they were doing the fraternal kiss but

2220
01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:11,960
where they go kiss, kiss, kiss, and then for some

2221
01:56:12,039 --> 01:56:13,680
reason I didn't know this, but for some reason, they

2222
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:15,720
just start kissing each other, like if they're like really like,

2223
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:18,359
we're in this together, me and you, bro it's communism.

2224
01:56:18,439 --> 01:56:20,640
Until the wheels fall off, they'll actually kiss each other

2225
01:56:21,359 --> 01:56:24,479
like how sus is that? And so these guys and

2226
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:26,199
that's what the painting is of. But all of the

2227
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:29,439
Wokis in Berlin think that when the Berlin Wall the

2228
01:56:29,479 --> 01:56:31,960
East and West they got together and started kissing each other.

2229
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:35,760
But yeah, the fraternal kiss, it's a real thing in socialism,

2230
01:56:36,039 --> 01:56:37,800
sus sus socialists.

2231
01:56:38,039 --> 01:56:41,199
Speaker 2: That's weird too because the tendency for the gate stuff.

2232
01:56:41,199 --> 01:56:43,279
Actually in the Cold War, it was actually the West

2233
01:56:43,279 --> 01:56:46,279
and the CIA that were actually pushing and promoting the

2234
01:56:46,439 --> 01:56:49,439
you know, sexual liberation side of it. Because the official

2235
01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:52,840
Soviet line was anti homosexuals. They're actually using that as

2236
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:55,560
leverage in the Cold War. I'm not pro Soviet. I'm

2237
01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:57,840
just saying it's odd that it's interpreted in that way.

2238
01:56:57,880 --> 01:56:59,960
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, but I don't think it's meant to be

2239
01:57:00,159 --> 01:57:03,279
explicitly gay thing because they would kiss cheek cheek cheek

2240
01:57:03,319 --> 01:57:07,680
and then like they do this like kiss if you know,

2241
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,479
I don't know, weird, weird shit. Four away from the goal, guys,

2242
01:57:11,479 --> 01:57:14,479
we're four away, four yellows away from the goal. We're

2243
01:57:14,520 --> 01:57:17,800
getting very close. Sounds like Jake is a Catechuman, says

2244
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:21,039
Octavian and not a Catechuman yet. We'll see how we.

2245
01:57:21,039 --> 01:57:21,479
Speaker 2: Go with that.

2246
01:57:23,359 --> 01:57:25,479
Speaker 1: AULTA Void for ten says, so you're saying if I

2247
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:27,399
go to church and I have to take off my pimp.

2248
01:57:27,159 --> 01:57:32,479
Speaker 2: Pat only depends on what church you go to. If

2249
01:57:32,520 --> 01:57:34,880
you go to a black pamp church, give it on, buddy.

2250
01:57:35,119 --> 01:57:39,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, great. Scott says Orthodox Christianity is the only

2251
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:42,680
church that makes the New Testament real because it wrote it.

2252
01:57:44,039 --> 01:57:45,000
Speaker 2: I would agree with that. Yeah.

2253
01:57:46,479 --> 01:57:48,720
Speaker 1: Rach Wilson says for twenty, great to see Rachel in

2254
01:57:48,720 --> 01:57:50,720
the chat. Great to see you guys streaming today. It's

2255
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:52,479
like my big brother and my little brother doing the

2256
01:57:52,560 --> 01:57:54,640
stream pretty much correct, He.

2257
01:57:55,760 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 2: Am I the little bro?

2258
01:57:58,920 --> 01:58:01,560
Speaker 1: I think I'm the little bro. Amelia sent fourteenth. Thank

2259
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:05,000
you very much, Amelia much appreciated. Yamaha banshees. There's there's

2260
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:08,880
an Orthodox church in Japan called Nikolaido, probably butchered it

2261
01:58:09,079 --> 01:58:12,079
in case you're trying to find some Orthodox sayings.

2262
01:58:13,279 --> 01:58:16,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is actually quite a few Orthodox churches in Japan,

2263
01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:18,560
I think really yem hmm.

2264
01:58:18,920 --> 01:58:20,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking at they've got that one in

2265
01:58:20,359 --> 01:58:24,840
Alaska as well. That's kind of interesting. In I was

2266
01:58:24,840 --> 01:58:26,760
in once again. I was in Indonesia and Bali and

2267
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:28,600
I was at my kickboxing gym and I was doing

2268
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:30,640
pads with some guy and then he saw my cross.

2269
01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:32,079
He's like, oh, you're Christian. I was like yeah, and

2270
01:58:32,119 --> 01:58:34,000
he's like what And I was like, I was like,

2271
01:58:34,039 --> 01:58:35,920
I'd go to Orthodox church. And he was like, oh,

2272
01:58:36,039 --> 01:58:38,479
you should come to this Orthodox church we've gotten in

2273
01:58:38,520 --> 01:58:40,960
there on the south of Bali. And I was researching

2274
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:42,640
one for I shouldn't find one, but apparently there's now

2275
01:58:42,680 --> 01:58:46,119
a Russian Orthodox church in Bali as well. And apparently

2276
01:58:46,119 --> 01:58:48,840
in the north of Bali there was a big mass

2277
01:58:48,840 --> 01:58:53,239
conversion that happened where there's a whole massive Orthodox community

2278
01:58:53,279 --> 01:58:54,439
up there, so, I mean.

2279
01:58:55,880 --> 01:58:57,159
Speaker 2: I've never even heard of that. That's great.

2280
01:58:57,800 --> 01:59:02,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, Marty Maximus came in with three times ten. Thank you,

2281
01:59:02,319 --> 01:59:05,680
mighty Maximith much appreciate that goal has been absolutely smash guys,

2282
01:59:06,079 --> 01:59:08,880
appreciate that. Q Todd for ten says, thanks for the story,

2283
01:59:09,000 --> 01:59:12,479
mister j for the goal, mister Jake, Thank you. Sir

2284
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:15,840
Anthony says, I struggle actually consistently going to church. Am

2285
01:59:15,880 --> 01:59:18,720
I making excuses for myself? I know I should be there?

2286
01:59:18,800 --> 01:59:19,439
Is this normal?

2287
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:23,159
Speaker 2: I think everybody has that struggle. Yeah. Absolutely, We're all

2288
01:59:23,199 --> 01:59:25,680
going to have the same passions that we battle. I

2289
01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:28,039
mean some of us will battle one passion versus another.

2290
01:59:28,079 --> 01:59:30,119
But yeah, absolutely, yep.

2291
01:59:30,399 --> 01:59:32,600
Speaker 1: All right, Jay, Well, I really appreciate your time today. Man,

2292
01:59:32,920 --> 01:59:35,279
tell every your links are all in the description everything,

2293
01:59:35,399 --> 01:59:38,680
all of the website, YouTube, all these sorts of things.

2294
01:59:38,720 --> 01:59:41,920
But what can we expect from you? And where's the

2295
01:59:41,960 --> 01:59:43,000
best places to find you?

2296
01:59:44,039 --> 01:59:46,319
Speaker 2: Thanks Jake. I always have fun talking to you, really

2297
01:59:46,359 --> 01:59:48,760
good show. Love your content too. By the way, you

2298
01:59:48,800 --> 01:59:51,039
can find me at Jasonelsons dot com. You can subscribe

2299
01:59:51,039 --> 01:59:53,359
there to the archives. You can get my books signed copies.

2300
01:59:53,399 --> 01:59:55,640
That's our Collywood one two and three and the philosophy

2301
01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:58,760
text as well in the shop. You can find me

2302
01:59:59,159 --> 02:00:02,840
on Twitter. You can find me fourth the out shown

2303
02:00:02,880 --> 02:00:07,760
show mostly on Fridays. You can find me Sam Hide Show.

2304
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:10,840
We wrote one full season of The Sam Hide Show,

2305
02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:13,960
so I think we'd be starting in season two soon. Yeah,

2306
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:16,359
and then everywhere else on social media, same name.

2307
02:00:17,359 --> 02:00:19,199
Speaker 1: All right, Well, don't forget to like the stream, guys.

2308
02:00:19,239 --> 02:00:22,199
I'm gonna stick around for a little bit and chat

2309
02:00:22,239 --> 02:00:25,199
with you guys. But Jay always a pleasure man, and

2310
02:00:25,199 --> 02:00:28,119
I'll see you very soon thanks to Gooday, see you later?

2311
02:00:28,159 --> 02:00:34,880
Did how good? Guys? Always fun having Jay on the channel,

2312
02:00:35,760 --> 02:00:38,079
Always fun to pick his brains about things. What did

2313
02:00:38,079 --> 02:00:41,000
you guys think? I want to do more interviews this year?

2314
02:00:41,119 --> 02:00:45,199
Get more into interview content. I really really enjoy the interviews.

2315
02:00:45,239 --> 02:00:47,399
I might do a few debates and everything still here

2316
02:00:47,439 --> 02:00:50,159
and there, but I really enjoy the interview content. The

2317
02:00:50,199 --> 02:00:53,279
debates are cool and everything, but I missed doing interviews

2318
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:58,760
picking people's brains. Rob Nor's streaming over here, or David

2319
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:02,079
Patrick Carry's streaming as well. Let's go DPH because you

2320
02:01:02,079 --> 02:01:04,079
guys are probably be a bit more interested in DPH

2321
02:01:04,159 --> 02:01:07,359
content after Jay all right, guys, we're going to go

2322
02:01:07,359 --> 02:01:10,680
over to DPH. He's streaming over there. Thank you so

2323
02:01:10,800 --> 02:01:13,920
much for joining me, much appreciated. Guys, much love. Take

2324
02:01:13,920 --> 02:01:14,760
care of yourselves.