1 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,640 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittles, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:29,679 Federalist and your experience shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:30,079 --> 00:00:32,640 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,280 the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST. 6 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,000 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,479 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,960 Our guest today is political strategist and policy leader John Tillman, 9 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,439 author of the new book Political Vice, How the Radical 10 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:57,719 Left Controls America and the Path to Regaining Our Liberty. John, 11 00:00:57,719 --> 00:00:59,479 thank you so much for joining us in this edition 12 00:00:59,479 --> 00:01:00,640 of the Federalist Radio Hour. 13 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: Great to be with you, Matt, Thanks for having me on. 14 00:01:03,399 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely, you have seen a lot of the left in Illinois. 15 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:16,480 You have covered politics and policy for a long time, 16 00:01:16,719 --> 00:01:23,560 and I think the left is the dominant feature. The 17 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,680 radical left is the dominant feature in Illinois under Governor J. B. Pritzker. 18 00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:34,840 Give us a little sense of how all of this 19 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,120 domination from the left started, because you ask a very 20 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,719 interesting question, how does the radical left keep winning even 21 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:45,840 when it's losing? 22 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: The radical left understands that politics is about pressure, and 23 00:01:52,319 --> 00:01:55,799 in order to apply pressure to politicians and the political system, 24 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,200 you have to gain power. And where does power come from. 25 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,719 Power comes from media capacity. Power comes from being able 26 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:07,079 to activate normally dormant or latent voters into taking action. 27 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:10,560 And there's two kinds of that. There's orchestrated and we're 28 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,240 seeing a lot of that on the political lef Now 29 00:02:12,319 --> 00:02:15,199 that all the riots and protests that you see in 30 00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:18,639 the streets, these are all orchestrated by nonprofits and political 31 00:02:18,719 --> 00:02:21,599 organizations that are fomenting the discord to try to create 32 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,360 a narrative and apply pressure to the political system and 33 00:02:24,439 --> 00:02:27,800 politicians in it. And then lead influencers are the third part, 34 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:31,080 and the lead influencers are the most important part in 35 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,919 the traditional political vice because they apply direct pressure to 36 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,759 political actors and they also apply and manipulate the media 37 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,120 and the public. And so the reason that Illinois is 38 00:02:41,159 --> 00:02:43,199 the way it is, or California or New York is 39 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,840 part of it is just the belief systems that exists there. 40 00:02:46,039 --> 00:02:48,039 But don't forget that both those states, all three of 41 00:02:48,039 --> 00:02:51,159 those states at one time voted reliably republican. So what 42 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,680 makes it change. And also don't forget that Florida, Missouri, Ohio, Indiana. 43 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,639 These are all one time blue and or purple states 44 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,439 become reliably read. So the question is what happens in 45 00:03:02,439 --> 00:03:04,919 each of these cases to change it. And what I 46 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,120 believe my theory of the political device is that there's 47 00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:10,120 a specific kind of capacity you have to build in 48 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:14,960 the media, in grassroots and people engagement, if you will, 49 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:18,280 and building elite influencers in order to apply pressure and 50 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,039 thus have power in the political system. 51 00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: Lawfair plays a significant role in all of this, and 52 00:03:24,479 --> 00:03:31,120 the left has made lawfair one of their leading vices. 53 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:36,319 We saw all of that, of course, employed after President 54 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:41,360 Trump got out of office. They did everything they could 55 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,719 to stop him from being a candidate from president again, 56 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:53,680 everything from impeachments to indictments to prosecutions on bogus charges 57 00:03:53,879 --> 00:03:59,800 in very deep blue jurisdictions. How much does law fair 58 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:02,400 play into the left strategy. 59 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,319 Speaker 2: It's a huge part of it, and it's a part 60 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,599 that has really emerged over the last ten years with 61 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,240 the emergence of Donald Trump. And so lawfair really engages 62 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,879 every aspect of the political advice. It's brought. The lawsuits 63 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,759 are brought by elite influencers, often attorneys general, prosecutors in 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,000 these Democrat localities where they have control of the system, 65 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,160 and then they run media campaigns and have their friends 66 00:04:28,199 --> 00:04:31,399 in the corporate legacy media run the stories as those 67 00:04:31,439 --> 00:04:34,560 cases are brought, and those stories and the contextualization of 68 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,720 those stories of course have a negative slant in terms 69 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,040 of the treatment of the subject of the Lawfair and 70 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,000 the case you're talking about Donald Trump, but not just 71 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,439 Donald Trump, all the J sixers that were prosecuted viciously 72 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,959 Roger Stone. I mean, pick anybody you want who's been 73 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,279 prosecuted by the Lawfair strategy the left. And then of course, 74 00:04:52,319 --> 00:04:57,360 simultaneously they're running campaigns to try to persuade the American voter, 75 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,920 American citizens that the the subject of the law Fair 76 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,839 is guilty and unworthy of continued support. And in that case, 77 00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:10,399 they were trying to essentially preempt Trump not only legally 78 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,480 from being able to run, but they wanted to destroy 79 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,160 his brand loyalty among voters. I think it failed in 80 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,879 spectacular fashion because of the unique nature of Trump, and 81 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,600 also Trump is one of the perhaps the very best 82 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,319 politician in the history of the world to build his 83 00:05:26,399 --> 00:05:29,720 own direct marketing channels to voters and really bypass corporate 84 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:31,560 media's ability to control a narrative. 85 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And you think about what's happened over the 86 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,240 better part of the last ten years, and it's breathtaking, 87 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:47,879 to say the very least. How do I guess the 88 00:05:47,959 --> 00:05:53,040 question is, as we've seen the disorder in the streets 89 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,519 with the protest against ice again, as you mentioned, all performative. 90 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,319 Isn't it curious that you see all of this stuff 91 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,120 happening in a mid term election year, just as we 92 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,360 saw in twenty twenty with the Black Lives Matter movement. 93 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,360 But the left does so many things that are truly 94 00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:23,879 appalling to much of America, the majority of America. How 95 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:28,040 are they able to continue to do these sorts of 96 00:06:28,079 --> 00:06:30,759 things and have electoral success. 97 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,079 Speaker 2: Well, they do it for a number of reasons. First 98 00:06:35,079 --> 00:06:37,680 of all, let's go back a little bit, and because 99 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,480 what's happening over the last twenty plus years is not 100 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,360 the way it used to be. It used to be 101 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,920 that you ran affirmative campaigns, try to persuade the persuadable 102 00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:48,639 middle voters and win a majority, and you had your 103 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:54,079 base coalition. The Democrats had working class union households, rural households, 104 00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:58,199 Southern whites primarily, who are all Democrats back in the day. 105 00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:01,519 And then you had suburban and affluent to the country 106 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,079 club Republicans if you will, and an independence and everybody 107 00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:07,199 in between. And it was a persuasion game. What started 108 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,279 to happen, and I'll use it started before this. I'd 109 00:07:10,279 --> 00:07:13,160 say it started really in twenty the two thousand election, 110 00:07:13,279 --> 00:07:15,519 but we really came to be able to see it 111 00:07:15,879 --> 00:07:18,839 in the twenty twelve election when Obama was reelected. The 112 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,439 hidden story during that period of time is that people 113 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,319 always talked about how Republicans have a gender gap problem 114 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:27,639 and they don't do well with minority voters, all of 115 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,680 which was true. But the other side of that coin was, 116 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,879 over time the Democrat Party had a white voter problem. 117 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,560 So in twenty twelve, Barack Obama beatn Romney, as you 118 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:42,759 may recall, and he got Obama got sixty percent of 119 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,879 the eighteen to twenty nine year old vote, He got 120 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,120 sixty seven percent of single women, he got seventy one 121 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,160 percent of Hispanic voters, and he got ninety three percent 122 00:07:54,279 --> 00:07:59,120 of black voters, so huge supermajorities across the spectrum, and 123 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,360 those were rucial to him winning because he only got 124 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:06,720 about thirty nine percent of white voters, and if you 125 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,079 took out white millennials and white single women, he was 126 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,639 probably down around thirty two to thirty three percent of 127 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,319 white voters, and that really brought to the four The 128 00:08:14,399 --> 00:08:17,160 problem was that Democrat Party had a problem with white 129 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,439 voters because their policies were creating division and alienating people, 130 00:08:21,839 --> 00:08:25,480 and so group identity politics as an electoral strategy really 131 00:08:25,519 --> 00:08:27,959 went full force from that point on. And that is 132 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,800 why all the protests that you see, all the riding 133 00:08:30,879 --> 00:08:37,240 you see DEI ESG, these are all designed gender transitioning. 134 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,000 You know, I think there's a consensus in America about 135 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,399 gay marriage, but some of the other things going on 136 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,600 and the more crazy stuff, you know, transvestites dancing for 137 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,720 children in elementary schools, all these crazy things, and people saying, wow, 138 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,559 what the heck happened? I thought we just wanted to 139 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,360 have a gay marriage be legal and everybody can move along. 140 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:57,840 How's all this is happening. It's because they're trying to 141 00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:02,200 create ever more slices of the grievance coalition based upon 142 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:07,919 your identity, because economic differences no longer mattered as white 143 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,240 voters broadly moved to the right, and so all these 144 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,080 things that you see going on that don't make any 145 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,279 sense are part of the lefts strategy to knit together 146 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,159 a grievance coalition. And so all the other things that 147 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,879 you just asked about in terms of why do they 148 00:09:20,879 --> 00:09:23,159 do these protests and all these things that they're fomenting 149 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,960 in the public and the media and through politics, is 150 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,639 because they need to gin up anger to maximize turnout 151 00:09:29,799 --> 00:09:33,240 of these different groups and get those supermajorities. So we've 152 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,720 gone from those big four I mentioned in twenty twelve, 153 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,080 single women, Hispanics, African Americans, and eighteen to twenty nine 154 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,840 year olds then called millennials. Those groups now have been 155 00:09:42,879 --> 00:09:50,919 supplemented by the LBGTU TQ coalition, Asians, suburban moms who 156 00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:54,600 have empathy for children who may be having mental health problems, 157 00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:57,000 and they decided that gender transitioning is the solution, and 158 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,919 on and on, and of course on top of all 159 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,279 that Trump arrangement syndrome helps feed it all. 160 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, and a lot of that going on in 161 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:10,200 America today. I thought, as I look back at twenty twelve, 162 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,080 I thought Mitt Romney lost because he put his dog 163 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,240 on on the top of his car as he was 164 00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:20,320 on a family vacation, and he had binders of women. 165 00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:23,200 I say all of this, John, of course, by way 166 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:29,399 of noting the corporate accomplice media. You cannot do what 167 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,159 the left has done in this country, all of the 168 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,080 crazy stuff that you just laid out without a complicit media, 169 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,759 and I do mean a complicit media. You take a 170 00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:45,639 look at the numbers of the negative coverage on Donald 171 00:10:45,639 --> 00:10:53,279 Trump at ninety two percent. You have late night talk shows, 172 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,799 although you know fewer and fewer people are actually tuning 173 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,559 into these, but they are just at nightly, you know, 174 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,519 talking points for the Democrat Party in this country. How 175 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,879 much has the media played in all of this over 176 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:16,840 the last you know, fifteen years or so, And that said, 177 00:11:17,399 --> 00:11:24,200 is their hold on the control of the message loosening 178 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:29,840 with the you know, with the changing of media and America. 179 00:11:30,759 --> 00:11:33,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great question. I think it's instrumental 180 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,559 for your listeners to understand what is going on in 181 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,000 the country. And it's a fairly big topic and I'll 182 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,200 try to dial it down a little bit. I write 183 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,240 about this in the book The twentieth century was an 184 00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:46,200 anomaly in human history. It was the first time in 185 00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:49,799 human history where you had mass communication. So it really 186 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,120 started about nineteen twenty seven, I use as the beginning 187 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,120 of this period, and then really started to end in 188 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,279 nineteen ninety seven. That's when you had the first twenty 189 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,519 seven is when you had a first national radio broadcast. 190 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,200 Eventually got all consolidated with television after the war. By 191 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,480 the time you got into the sixties, seventies and on 192 00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:07,679 through the rest of the century, you had three broadcast 193 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:11,720 networks that were associated radio networks, two newsweeklies, and about 194 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,840 a dozen daily newspapers, with the New York Times in 195 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,480 Washington Post being the two most important. Who really controlled 196 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:21,039 the content in news that the American people got, and 197 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,000 they controlled distribution. So if you were General Motors or 198 00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:26,600 Ford or whoever you were, Procter and Gamble, you could 199 00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:28,919 reach ninety seven percent of the American audience with a 200 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,200 singular message about your soap or your automobile by buying 201 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,360 those three networks, those newsweeklies and those daily newspapers. And 202 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:38,679 it was an amazing thing. It created a shared experience. 203 00:12:38,919 --> 00:12:42,159 From the assassination of Kennedy and the other things that 204 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,639 went on in the sixties, to the riots in the 205 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,559 sixties and seventies, to the Challenger crisis, to football and baseball. 206 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:52,200 We had national shared experiences because we're all watching basically 207 00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:55,440 three or four channels and consuming a monolithic news feed, 208 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,240 and so in some ways it was good. But the 209 00:12:57,279 --> 00:12:59,919 bad part of it was is that the content was 210 00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:03,000 and distribution were controlled by about fifty people, and they 211 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,600 all had a similar workview. Matt I make the argument 212 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,799 that the Civil rights movement succeeded and the Civil Rights 213 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,600 Act passed in the nineteen sixties because the elites controlling 214 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,759 the media finally decided it was time. All the predicates 215 00:13:17,799 --> 00:13:20,000 to have had that happen in the fifties were present 216 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,360 in the fifties. They all did you go back and 217 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,120 look at what was going on in the fifties. The 218 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:27,600 Civil Rights Act could have passed in the fifties when 219 00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:30,960 Eisenhower was president, but the elite media didn't flip the script. 220 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,039 In the fifties. If you look at the news coverage, 221 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,600 they were still somewhat sympathetic to the states' rights and 222 00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:38,200 what was going on in the Democrat control South. By 223 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,159 the sixties, that completely flipped, and that's why it happened then, 224 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,840 and that's how important the control of narrative and corporate 225 00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:47,279 media is. So now you roll to the twenty first 226 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:50,159 century and all that started fragment because of full maturation 227 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,200 of cable penetration and the Internet. So you roll forward 228 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,799 and we look at what just has happened over the 229 00:13:54,879 --> 00:13:57,440 last ten years. I already wonders why did we get 230 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,360 into the censorship complex, and that all happened is because 231 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:05,440 those corporate media legacy players wanted to put the genie 232 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,399 back in the bottle and they wanted to continue to 233 00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:10,559 control both content and distribution. And they still have a 234 00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:13,480 large degree of control over narrative. But the beauty of 235 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,840 it is because of the Federalists and everybody else on 236 00:14:15,919 --> 00:14:19,320 the center right media landscape is they can't control. And 237 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,480 thank god that Elon Musk bought what is now the 238 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,000 next Platform. All of these things continue to erode their 239 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,240 ability to control the narrative. My final comment on this 240 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,840 subject for now is that if you and I were 241 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,399 in charge man of all the media and the United States, 242 00:14:34,679 --> 00:14:36,799 do you think that ten years from now the culture 243 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,360 would be different. I think the answer is obviously yes. 244 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:43,679 And people of the left control those levers. Obviously, that 245 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,919 has an effect on what people believe because of what 246 00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:47,679 they consume and how they learn. 247 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: Eighteen hundred companies are in the amazing tariff for refund. 248 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,320 Race the Watchdout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. 249 00:14:57,399 --> 00:15:00,279 Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politic in 250 00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:02,759 the economy and how it affects your wallet. One hundred 251 00:15:02,799 --> 00:15:05,879 and thirty billion dollars was taken in tariffs. Because those 252 00:15:05,879 --> 00:15:09,360 tariffs were crawled off, companies won their money back. Will 253 00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:11,399 they get it? Whether it's happening in DC or down 254 00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:14,000 on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check 255 00:15:14,039 --> 00:15:16,519 out the watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski 256 00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:19,000 on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 257 00:15:23,159 --> 00:15:26,679 Speaker 1: And they worked alongside the government, as we know, certainly 258 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,679 the Biden administration was a perfect example. It's happened before, 259 00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:35,240 of course, but the Biden administration and COVID really brought 260 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,159 this to the front. And as you noted, thankfully Elon 261 00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:43,159 Musk did purchase Twitter, which is now X and we 262 00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:48,360 were able to get those Twitter files part of a 263 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,799 massive collusion effort between the Biden administration and the major 264 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:02,360 social media networks to suppress the conservative right point of view. 265 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,679 You studied this, how how impactful was that? And you know, 266 00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:13,080 to put it in scooby Doo terms, would they have 267 00:16:13,159 --> 00:16:15,399 gotten away with it? If it hadn't been for that 268 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:16,600 meddling musk. 269 00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: They would still be getting away with it today we'd 270 00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:22,960 be in a very different world. Because what happens now 271 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,559 with X being an open platform or free speech still 272 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,399 reigns is they cannot And even though you know, the 273 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,200 number of people on X in any given days not 274 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,559 that large, but it has a ripple effect. X is 275 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,799 the rock into the middle of the pond, and those 276 00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:39,080 ripples affect the entire population and all of the narratives. 277 00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:41,600 But I'm still stunned by how many people who are 278 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,559 not on X and are just consuming the legacy media 279 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,639 really believe things that are untrue. You know that just 280 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,399 have I live in an affluent suburban community one of 281 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,799 my I have a home in Naples and in Chicago. 282 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,120 I'm now a Florida resident, but I have to say 283 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,559 that for the I R S and the State of 284 00:16:58,559 --> 00:17:02,399 Illinois auditors. But my home up in Chicago rval for 285 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,720 many years. He's also fairly affluent largely Republican modern Republican community. 286 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,480 Most of my neighbors think Ice is horrible. Most of 287 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,680 my neighbors think Donald Trump is a terrible person, and 288 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,400 that his presidency hasn't had any successes because they've consumed 289 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,559 the Washington Post, the New York Times, and CNN, among others. 290 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,440 And so we still have a long way to go 291 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,480 to get and penetrate with those voters who are gettable, 292 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,039 but they just are being indoctrinated and propagandized by the 293 00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:32,759 corporate media. 294 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,839 Speaker 1: It is very frustrating and one of the most frustrating 295 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,119 points that I have seen play over and over again 296 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:45,759 by longer than I want to acknowledge career in journalism 297 00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:51,400 is that you have a lot of Republicans who have 298 00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:56,039 been beaten and bruised and battered over and over again 299 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:02,079 by the same corporate media, by this complete monolith media, 300 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,839 all pumping out the same message, anti conservative, anti Republican, 301 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,440 obviously anti Trump, and yet they keep going back to 302 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,559 these sources because they I think it's like the you know, 303 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:23,079 the the abused spouse or you know in that vein. 304 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,400 They just that they say they can change them. They 305 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,799 think they can change these people. That is not the case. 306 00:18:31,279 --> 00:18:34,039 Speaker 2: It is absolutely not the case. I am not opposed. 307 00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:37,920 I have my philosophy on media, especially for active as advocates, 308 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,799 politicians campaigns, is that you need a two pronged strategy, 309 00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:44,119 and I think Donald Trump has been the greatest example 310 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,720 of this, and that is the first strategy is use 311 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,960 the legacy media, third what I call third party channels, 312 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,240 use them with your eyes wide open, but use them 313 00:18:56,519 --> 00:18:58,640 in a way that fits into your strategy. And you 314 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,440 have to have a strategy. What is your rategy? I 315 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,920 think too often the people you're talking about don't have 316 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,240 a strategy. They just think tactically or ad hoc, and 317 00:19:05,319 --> 00:19:07,119 somebody comes to them and says, you know, do you 318 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,039 want to come on CNN or do you want to 319 00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:11,480 be interviewed by the New York Times? Well you should see? Okay, Well, 320 00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:13,640 how should I do that? How does that fit my strategy? 321 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,000 What's my goal? Okay? Tactically? How am I going to 322 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,119 approach it? If you actually do it that way, Half 323 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,119 the time you'll turn those down because they don't fit. 324 00:19:20,279 --> 00:19:22,759 Other times you'll do it because it does fit. And 325 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:25,039 Trump has been He hasn't been perfect, but he's been 326 00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:28,240 really good at that but the second strategy is to 327 00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:32,839 develop your own independent, proprietary channels to reach your target audience. 328 00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:36,880 Trump has done this brilliantly by developing a massive list 329 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,319 so you can text directly, developing a massive list so 330 00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:42,640 you can email directly, confone directly. And then of course 331 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,640 he's now built his platforms with true social and so forth, 332 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,359 and all of that shows that what we have to 333 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,680 do as believers in liberty and a class of the 334 00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:55,799 liberals who want to see the country return to an 335 00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:58,640 American consensus of our nobility as a nation, that our 336 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,799 free enterprise system is noble, that entrepreneurs are noble, capitalism 337 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,000 is noble. How do we create once again an American 338 00:20:04,039 --> 00:20:07,559 consensus on that we have to build alternative channels not 339 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,000 just to the right, but to the middle and the 340 00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:13,599 guttable soft left and reach them and then persuade. 341 00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: I think that is so critical because, as you mentioned before, 342 00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:25,480 there's so many issues, myriad issues, ice and budget cutting, 343 00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:30,960 waste out of government, and fraud. Trump campaigned on these 344 00:20:31,079 --> 00:20:37,160 kinds of things and he was very successful. Americans wanted 345 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:44,400 and they still support, the removal certainly of violent criminal 346 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,880 illegal immigrants specifically, but in the main they support the 347 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,240 deportation policies going on right now that Trump promised he 348 00:20:54,279 --> 00:20:59,720 would deliver. Why is there such a disconnect, though, between 349 00:21:00,319 --> 00:21:05,440 what the voters said and say they want and how 350 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,880 they are polled in the corporate media. 351 00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 2: I think, well, there's no disconnect among the voters. The 352 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,359 voters have reliably wanted those policies you just articulated. There 353 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,920 is a total disconnect between how the media portrays these 354 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,440 actions in keeping with the public's interest. And the reason 355 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,880 for that is that the corporate media, they are not 356 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:31,039 objective observers, as you well know and most of your 357 00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:34,480 listeners know. They are political activists masquerading as journalists. And 358 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:37,039 they understand the point I made earlier, which is for 359 00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:39,920 the Democrats to continue to win and compete in elections, 360 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,079 they need these illegal aliens to be here and to vote. 361 00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:47,359 And you know, it's a myth that, first of all, 362 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,920 that they don't vote. They do vote in significant numbers, 363 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,160 and eventually they'll all vote if they're here long enough. 364 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,799 As we've seen, and so that grievance coalition that I 365 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,799 talked about earlier, these voters aren't indust These illegal immigrants 366 00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:01,920 are instrumental part of it. So that's part of why 367 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,759 they're reporting and handling it the way they do. The 368 00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:08,359 second reason is because of what. I don't know if 369 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,920 I'm pronouncing his name correctly, but he's brilliant on the 370 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,200 X platform. God Sad GAA D. 371 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: Sad Probably not I know who you're talking about, but 372 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,759 pronunciation is a problem for yours truly as well. 373 00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 2: Anyway, most of your listeners probably know who he is. Anyway, 374 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,200 a brilliant thinker, and he has developed this term I 375 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,240 don't know if he invented or not, but certainly popularized 376 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,640 it about suicidal empathy. You know, it's interesting to me 377 00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:37,880 that the left has chosen to be extremely empathetic to 378 00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:41,119 criminals who come into this country, some of them violent, 379 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:45,960 over American citizens who've been victimized by those violent criminals. 380 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,839 It's very bizarre, and the only explanation of it is 381 00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:54,400 they think political power comes through this policy. And that 382 00:22:54,559 --> 00:22:58,519 is an absolute appalling commentary on where the political left 383 00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:00,400 has gone. And I think this is one of the 384 00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:04,400 you know, there's that cartoon you've probably seen about the 385 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,079 moderate conservative who's standing still, but the left or even 386 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,920 moderate liberal, who's standing still and suddenly they look like 387 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,880 the right wing, because the left has moved so far 388 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,240 to the left and become so extreme, and whereas people 389 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,319 on the right generally not change their views, and you 390 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,279 know Elon Musk and many others, Bill Maher, Bill Maher 391 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,160 still a liberal, but when it comes to speech, he 392 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:29,119 is hardcore a free speecher, and to some that makes 393 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,599 him conservative, which of course he is not. But thankfully 394 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:36,119 he's a pro free speech guy. And that's that's good 395 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,039 for the country that you have people on the left. 396 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,000 There are others Glenn Greenwald, who are for free speech 397 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,279 even though they're of the left. But there's a doctor 398 00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:46,400 naire thinking now on the left that you really can't 399 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,640 be for free speech anymore. It's wild. 400 00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: It is interesting to see folks like Bill Maher looking 401 00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:56,200 at the modern left today. And let's face it, he 402 00:23:56,279 --> 00:24:00,079 has been liberal and has made no bones about that, 403 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:05,559 that's where his political philosophy is. But he's looking at 404 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,880 the craziness the insanity on the left and calling it 405 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,160 out because you get to a certain point, and as 406 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,839 you said, the left, the radical left in this country, 407 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:25,720 keeps pushing the liberals forward in this insane agenda. Our 408 00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:29,279 guest today is political strategist and policy leader John Tillman, 409 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,799 author of the new book Political Vice, How the Radical 410 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,880 Left controls America and the Path to regaining our Liberty. 411 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,400 We're going to talk about that path in just a moment. 412 00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:45,759 But you had mentioned before about the suicidal empathy. It 413 00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:51,720 does remind me of a situation playing out in Des Moines, 414 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,960 Iowa that drew national headlines, and that was the hiring 415 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,920 by the very progressive Des Moines School board of an 416 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:08,880 illegal immigrant who turns out had a very violent criminal background. 417 00:25:09,079 --> 00:25:13,400 This was the guy who was hired because he was black, 418 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:20,440 because he checked off the boxes of the liberals on 419 00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:24,519 this board. So you know, you have this sort of 420 00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:28,960 stuff going on in communities across this country where they 421 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,559 are trying to virtue signal and do all of the 422 00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:38,119 things that you know, the social justice so called left 423 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,960 wants to do. And then they find out this guy 424 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,799 has been apprehended by Ice because indeed he is an 425 00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:51,839 illegal immigrant, and we find out his record, and you 426 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,440 have people on that board saying what this guy sold them. 427 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:03,720 It was the concept they called radical empathy, and that 428 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,559 kind of stuff has gotten this country in a lot 429 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:10,759 of trouble. You know, a lot of people in Des 430 00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:14,119 Moines woke up to the fact, Hey, we got duped here. 431 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,400 But why are we at this point to begin with? 432 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 2: Because the controllers of our narrative, the ones who currently 433 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:24,720 have and have long had the commanding heights of the 434 00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:30,920 American cultural narrative, create the among whites, in particular, especially 435 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,119 suburban whites, this idea that you that to be a 436 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,000 virtuous person, you need to hire an unqualified or perhaps 437 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,440 in this case, dangerous person to demonstrate to the world 438 00:26:43,559 --> 00:26:47,720 that you are worthy of respect and admiration because you 439 00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:51,440 are so empathetic. It's a very, very strange idea, but 440 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,759 I think it's it's it's what's going on, and I 441 00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:57,839 can see it because I remember when I'm still in 442 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,480 shock about this. This is a really weird topic, but 443 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:02,240 I think it's important because it goes to the core 444 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,240 of how the left controls narrative and how they curtail 445 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,680 critical thinking and speaking out against this insanity. It was 446 00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:13,319 not that long ago, Matt that I'm sure remember that 447 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,359 the left and the right were unified in opposing I 448 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,279 believe it was in Africa, the genital mutilation of young women. 449 00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:22,559 It was a sort of a ritual that was going 450 00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:25,240 on then and everybody was protesting and trying to bring 451 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,160 attention to it. And then just a few years later 452 00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:32,440 you had the political left supporting the genital mutilation of 453 00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:35,799 children in America under the guise of gender affirming care. 454 00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:39,000 One of the most bizarre transitions I've ever heard. And 455 00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:42,599 when when that happened, I remember thinking that your transition 456 00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:46,559 children who and they're being given We want to listen 457 00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:49,279 to the children and hear them out when we can't 458 00:27:49,319 --> 00:27:51,839 even have somebody who's younger than eleven years old legally 459 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,599 babysit in this country, but we're going to have the 460 00:27:53,599 --> 00:27:56,720 eight year old choose their gender. This, of course is insanity. 461 00:27:57,319 --> 00:27:59,599 But people who raised their hand and said this is 462 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,160 insane were shouted down by that corporate media and the 463 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,799 political left. And I remember the first time. I certainly 464 00:28:06,839 --> 00:28:09,599 wasn't early. I was earlier than most, but I was 465 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,240 not one of the first. But I remember the first 466 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,440 time on a radio interview when I decided to use 467 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,960 the term gender genital mutilation of children as part of 468 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,440 gender firming care and to speak out against it. I 469 00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:25,759 was terrified, Matt because the power of the woke mindset 470 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,240 and the power to cancel was very very real, and 471 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,440 I thank god enough people have spoken out against that. 472 00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:34,160 I've spoken out against men and women's sports that I 473 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,359 do think the tide is turning. But all of it 474 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:42,480 is rooted in this radical, extreme, suicidal empathy that we're 475 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,599 talking about as a way for white people in particular 476 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,000 to demonstrate virtue. It's sick and wrong. 477 00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: I think the line that drove home all of that 478 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:59,880 to Americans even more so, Americans have really many, many 479 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,920 Americans have really rebelled, if you will, against this insanity. 480 00:29:05,519 --> 00:29:08,759 At the State of the Union address, the President says, 481 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,640 we are going to make sure that kids are not 482 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:21,240 mutilated through these so called gender affirming surgeries and chemical 483 00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:28,559 castrations and whatever. And he called upon Congress, all of 484 00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:32,519 Congress to stand up in support of that. The left 485 00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:36,279 side of the aisle could not bring themselves to do that. 486 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,400 And he called it like he saw it, and I 487 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,640 think like the majority of Americans definitely see it. He said, 488 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:51,119 these people are crazy, and he's right. Yet they keep 489 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,039 doubling down and doubling down on this. And one of 490 00:29:54,599 --> 00:29:58,960 the areas that I'm very interested in and how this 491 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:05,960 happened to be is the Marxist leftist movement for so 492 00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:11,319 many different areas in our public schools, on our college campuses. 493 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,160 This has been going on for many, many years. It's 494 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:21,000 been a training ground in indoctrination camp How much is 495 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,640 this movement, this leftist radical leftist movement, counting on that 496 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,640 to continue moving forward. 497 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 2: I think it's core and it goes back to what 498 00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:33,279 we've been talking about. Is the reason all this is happening, 499 00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:36,480 the reason you have a grievance coalition based upon identity 500 00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:42,640 and identity politics, resentment, et cetera, is because class warfare. 501 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,799 The Marxist original theory of Marxism was class warfare, that 502 00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:50,079 the working class and poor would rise up against the 503 00:30:50,119 --> 00:30:54,160 olive arks, as Bernie Centers is fond of saying, and 504 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,200 take power and have a government of the people. And 505 00:30:58,279 --> 00:31:01,960 the reason that failed and failed with that construct is 506 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,920 because working class and poor people thrived in a capitalist 507 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,440 society and rose to become the bourgeoisie. Where I grew 508 00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:11,759 up in rural Michigan, the auto workers from downland Detroit, 509 00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:16,079 they all union members, you know, they largely all had homes, 510 00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:19,559 summer homes, lake homes up in our neck of the woods, 511 00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:22,559 and some of them ski some of them had snowmobiles, 512 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:24,839 they went fishing, they were living a great life. So 513 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,319 the grievance didn't work very well with them. So the 514 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,720 group by identity politics as a replacement for class warfare. 515 00:31:32,119 --> 00:31:35,519 And part of that is this suicidal empathy is what 516 00:31:35,599 --> 00:31:37,119 brings you into that coalition. 517 00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:37,599 Speaker 3: You know. 518 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: Part of it is it's really very brilliant what they 519 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,160 have done, because we on the right, really at our 520 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,960 own peril, don't understand the appeal of their arguments, and 521 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,440 their peal is quite compelling. And their peal is this, 522 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:54,200 First of all, there's two sides in this context to 523 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,480 the human condition. The one side is that we all 524 00:31:56,559 --> 00:31:58,559 at some point face a calamity in our lives. Are 525 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,400 many calamities in our lives. Something doesn't go right. We 526 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,519 didn't get the job we wanted, We got fired from 527 00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:06,279 the job. Our daughter didn't get into the school we'd 528 00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:08,519 hope she'd get into the girl that I wanted to marry, 529 00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:11,640 decided I wasn't worthy. On and on we have these calamities. 530 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,039 And the construct in America had long been that when 531 00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:16,839 you have when you fall down, you get up, you 532 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,680 dust yourself off, and you go back at it. And 533 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,279 that had been our construct. What the Marxists are doing 534 00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,400 and what the political left is doing is saying no, no, no, 535 00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:27,000 you've been knocked down, and the way we will help 536 00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:29,200 you get up. But in order to help you and 537 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,400 to create equity and fairness in your life and to 538 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,839 write this terrible wrong that these rapacious capitalists and exploiters 539 00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:39,200 of you and your identity have done, you must vote 540 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:41,359 for us and give the government power, and then we 541 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,799 will put our foot on the scale and create equity 542 00:32:43,799 --> 00:32:46,880 and fairness for you and create opportunity for you. That 543 00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:49,720 is very compelling when you're victimized and you feel like 544 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,559 something hasn't gone right for you, which happens to all people. 545 00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:55,559 The other side of the coin that we have to 546 00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:58,200 appeal to is that you know the natural. The other 547 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,119 side of the national human condition is that we're we aspire, 548 00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:04,319 We hope, we dream, we want to have it better 549 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:07,240 tomorrow than we have today. We like achievement and feeling 550 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,960 of achievement, and in particular, we love collaboration. We're a 551 00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:13,680 gathering species. We like to work with other people to 552 00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:17,200 create great things, and that is our appeal. And the 553 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,799 problem is that we don't understand that that is part 554 00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:22,200 of what we have to sell and always be selling 555 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,359 that there will be setbacks and challenges as you go 556 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,200 down this journey of pursuing the American dream. And it's 557 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,559 the journey itself that is more important to the destination 558 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,240 as you try to build and collaborate and build your 559 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,960 family and your community. And we have to acknowledge that 560 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,599 the other side has an appeal and talk about why 561 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,319 it's not a good choice for you, because basically, once 562 00:33:40,359 --> 00:33:44,200 you choose the less idea, you've conceded you created an 563 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:47,799 artificial ceiling on your upside potential. There's a reason Europe 564 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,680 is continuing to fall behind because they have gone all 565 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,400 in on this and Mississippi is more wealthy, as has 566 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,759 now been well known than all of Europe. How can 567 00:33:56,839 --> 00:33:59,920 that happen? It happens because they have chosen the state 568 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,599 as their benefactor. And when the moment you do that, 569 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,519 you limit your upside potential and you limit your aspiration. 570 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 1: Yes, but remember John aspirations. I mean, that was what 571 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,239 the message of a Kamala Harris Vibes campaign. 572 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 2: It's all about. 573 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: If you recall in twenty twenty four, she kept trying 574 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:25,519 to sell would be voters on her aspirations of aspirational thought. 575 00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:30,639 I mean it was you know, I guess I'm talking 576 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:33,039 about this little tongue in cheek, but I mean that's 577 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:37,159 what the message they were trying to communicate. Unfortunately, I 578 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:40,039 think a majority of them, for at least unfortunately for 579 00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:43,719 the Democrats, the majority of Americans were getting a full 580 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:51,639 understanding that the Democrat parties aspirations were aspirations denihilism, destruction, 581 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,079 and so, you know, so here we are now at 582 00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:03,119 twenty twenty six, and in twenty twenty four, there were 583 00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:06,000 in November of twenty twenty four, there were a lot 584 00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:11,280 of people writing the obituary of the Democratic Party in 585 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,800 this country. And we have seen this that happen many 586 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,840 times before the Democrats and to the Republicans. It was 587 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,280 a bit premature, But all of that said, you have 588 00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:29,840 this battle really for the soul of America and for 589 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:36,199 the soul of just basic morality going on. Will people 590 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,239 on the right, or let me put it this way, 591 00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:46,199 will the rational human beings of all kinds continue to 592 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,360 engage in this fight? 593 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,119 Speaker 2: Oh, I think there's going to be a lot. Yes, 594 00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:53,920 I do believe there will be a lot of engagement. 595 00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:56,760 You're touching on a subject that I'm so glad you're 596 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,280 brought up, because I have been stunned by how many 597 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,079 people that are running organizations, practitioners on the right, running 598 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,960 nonprofits or political organization to advacy organizations as well as 599 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,280 the donor class kind of like dust off their hands. 600 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,280 If you can hear me doing that and say, oh 601 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,559 my god. You know, we have majorities in both the 602 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:18,159 House and the Senate, and Trump is one. We're in 603 00:36:18,199 --> 00:36:21,000 the driver's seat. It's all good. Now, we don't have 604 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:25,960 to fight anymore. Yeah, is insanity. We are we haven't 605 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,800 even landed on the beaches of Normandy were you know 606 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,480 where we're at right now is we're steaming toward midway 607 00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:35,719 and we still don't know if we're going to prevail, 608 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,519 and the odds are still against us. It really is 609 00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:42,119 frightening to me how many people on the right don't 610 00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:45,639 understand just how existential this fight is. You know, one 611 00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:47,519 of the things I talk about a lot is that 612 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,239 American greatness is not a birthright. Know, every generation must 613 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,159 earn it and by fighting for these principles we're talking about, 614 00:36:55,519 --> 00:36:59,440 and the fact that you know, European greatness of post 615 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,079 World War two is not a birthright, and we're watching 616 00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:06,280 them commit national suicide right before our eyes. And so 617 00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:09,400 we must reject that. We must have pride in the 618 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,679 Western canon. We must have pride in the American unique 619 00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:16,519 application of the Western canon. We must understand that we're 620 00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:19,599 noble and fight for and we must make moral arguments. 621 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,880 And what moral When you make a moral argument, what 622 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,719 that means is sometimes I'm not going to have empathy 623 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,480 for you, or I might have empathy, but I am 624 00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:31,960 going to reject your position though I feel empathetic towards you, 625 00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:35,800 because you are wrong. It is wrong to side with 626 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,760 the criminals who come here illegally. It is wrong to 627 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,440 allow too much immigration from people who have a faith 628 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,320 that wants to destroy the West and destroy the United States. 629 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,599 And of course I'm talking about Islam. The fact that 630 00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:54,880 the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful is irrelevant when 631 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,039 you have somewhere north of two hundred million who want 632 00:37:57,079 --> 00:37:59,840 to destroy the West. So you have to manage all 633 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,000 of this with a pride in the West and Western 634 00:38:03,039 --> 00:38:07,800 thinking that judo judo judo Korea Christian ethic, which I 635 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,559 had for getting out. So we are nowhere near winning, 636 00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:14,079 and we have to fight even harder. 637 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: You mentioned before the outset of this conversation that there 638 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,039 certainly is a lot of hope, and you lay that 639 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:26,199 out in this book. I mean, take a look at Florida. 640 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,519 How long had Florida been not just a blue state, 641 00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:36,679 but a deep blue state. Republicans have absolutely turned that 642 00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:41,480 around and it is has become a reliable red state. 643 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,639 I will note that having come from Wisconsin, I can 644 00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:52,239 tell you that that was a long time a blue state, 645 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,639 certainly a union and government union state. Scott Walker came 646 00:38:56,679 --> 00:39:01,119 in and changed that dynamic along with the Republican in 647 00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:09,760 twenty ten, and it was swing states, certainly, but definitely red, 648 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,280 leaning red, and now it is leaning back blue. So 649 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,039 all of these things are subject to change. What is 650 00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:21,880 the secret sauce for the right in as you mentioned, 651 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:28,880 not not just getting elected but saving this republic. There 652 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,119 are several factors. I've looked at it deeply. 653 00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:33,599 Speaker 2: As you note, I write about it in the book 654 00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:35,679 as to why do some places go red that had 655 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,880 once been blue and vice versa, and how does that 656 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,880 apply to the country. And the key is, you know, 657 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:44,679 let me just kind of go back for a second 658 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,000 to discuss a larger point, which is what the term 659 00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:52,599 grand strategy and the Cold War ended because Ronald Reagan, 660 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,079 along with Margaret Thatcher and the help of the Pope, 661 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,000 but Reagan in particular, implemented a grand strategy to defeat 662 00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:03,280 Soviet communism. And grand strategy the word strategy simply means 663 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,679 to create a plan. Grand strategy is an overarching plan 664 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,280 that governs everything you're trying to do to accomplish a 665 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,920 very big goal. So what we're trying to do is 666 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,079 restore faith and belief in American nobility, the American way, 667 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,400 and all the things that we're talking about here. And 668 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,559 in order to do that, you have to control the 669 00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:23,320 commanding heights of culture. When I first got involved in 670 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,400 this world after selling a business in two thousand and four, 671 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,199 I asked two very sophisticate, caated players and names that 672 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,519 your listeners might know, why is it that we've given 673 00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:33,480 up on fighting in culture? And I was told that 674 00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:35,639 it's all politics. Is now an all inside game. We 675 00:40:35,639 --> 00:40:37,400 can get done when we want what we want by 676 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,639 playing on the inside. The left controls too much. It's 677 00:40:40,679 --> 00:40:42,840 too big, it's a giant elephant. We can't do it. 678 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,159 The beauty of the twenty first century is we can 679 00:40:46,199 --> 00:40:49,480 bite off hunks of culture. The federalist is biting off 680 00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:51,760 a hunk of culture. The right of center media is 681 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,559 biting off a hunk of culture. The Harmon Brothers and 682 00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:57,280 Angel Studios is biting off a hunk of culture. What 683 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,480 we have to do is continue to build capacity, and 684 00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:03,760 our donor and investor class has to invest in building 685 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,440 capacity to compete for those commanding heights. So we have 686 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:12,000 to compete for mind share in podcasting, in news, in 687 00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:16,440 film and entertainment, in the high schools, in corporate communications, 688 00:41:16,519 --> 00:41:19,440 and build capacity one step at a time. Don't try 689 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,159 to bite the whole thing off. And if you look 690 00:41:21,199 --> 00:41:24,360 at where we are in media today, conservative media today 691 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,760 versus where it was when I got involved twenty two 692 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,119 years ago, it's night and day. We are so much 693 00:41:30,199 --> 00:41:32,400 better off. And that is why we're actually on the rise, 694 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,840 and that is why we're winning despite the left dominance 695 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,800 of culture. And when you look at the way we're 696 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,199 winning back mind share on all these issues. We've been 697 00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:42,639 talking about gender affirming care with children, which is one 698 00:41:42,639 --> 00:41:45,039 of the worst phrases I've ever heard in my life. 699 00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:51,280 It's a children destroying care. We are winning these arguments 700 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,079 and part of the reason so that Part one is 701 00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:57,159 investing in these capacities. Part two is making moral arguments 702 00:41:57,199 --> 00:41:59,760 and taking the moral high ground. You talked about President 703 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,840 Trump during the State of the Union asking people to 704 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,599 stand He also did that with respect to immigration. Do 705 00:42:05,679 --> 00:42:09,119 you protecting American citizens as the primary purpose of the 706 00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:11,800 federal government and they refuse to stand for that. He 707 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,480 is making moral arguments that cast the decision that the 708 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,440 issue in stark terms. That is what we have to do. 709 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,639 We have to be absolutely fearless in making moral arguments. 710 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,760 And the third thing we have to do is understand 711 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,199 where the battle really is. We tend to think the 712 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,360 battle is in the election season, and of course there 713 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,039 is a battle during the election season, but the real 714 00:42:32,159 --> 00:42:35,360 battle is at the headwaters of the river. And what 715 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,440 do I mean by that? Andrew Breitbart was very famous 716 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,039 for having popularized the term that politics is downstream of culture. 717 00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:46,239 That's true. That's why one of my organizations is called 718 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,280 the American Culture Project, and one of my others is 719 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,599 called the Commanding Heights, because it's about gaining the commanding 720 00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:56,000 heights of American culture. And so these battles are actually 721 00:42:56,079 --> 00:42:59,480 at the headwaters of the river. And yes, politics is downstream, 722 00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:03,480 the idea is, and views and people's belief systems are 723 00:43:03,559 --> 00:43:07,480 being formed way earlier than election cycles. They're being formed 724 00:43:07,519 --> 00:43:11,000 in the years, months and years prior to a given election. 725 00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:14,320 And that is why so when Donald Trump won in 726 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,519 twenty sixteen, it was years of disaffection that preceded him 727 00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:21,920 that allowed him to win. And what we have to 728 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,639 do is and what we have to convince our investor class, 729 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,880 our billionaire class, and our centimillionaire class that we need 730 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,000 to be investing in capacities to compete for mind share 731 00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:34,119 at the headwaters. And I'm very encouraged that that is happening, 732 00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:36,199 but we need far more of it, and we need 733 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,519 we need deeper investments across that spectrum. And the other 734 00:43:40,559 --> 00:43:42,960 thing I'll just add to this is that part of 735 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,239 the problem in the donor class is they're all generally 736 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,199 very successful business people, of course, and they want to 737 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,519 rationalize our capacities. Well, let's just have one group that 738 00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:55,599 appeals to young count Let's have one group that appeals 739 00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:58,639 to high school students. Let's have one digital marketing agency 740 00:43:58,679 --> 00:44:01,679 over here. That is not how the works. We need 741 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,360 many different kinds of deodorant, and we need many different 742 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,159 kinds of practitioners and activists appealing to all kinds of people. 743 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,760 And let you know, we're venture investing in freedom and 744 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,280 we need to do that liberally. 745 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the great successes is the diffusion of 746 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:22,480 course of media and communications over the last particularly twenty 747 00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:25,440 twenty five years in this country. And we saw the 748 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:30,960 results in twenty twenty four. Definitely play out, definitely have 749 00:44:31,039 --> 00:44:34,400 an impact at the end of the day. This is 750 00:44:35,199 --> 00:44:39,440 for me as I see it a battle between the 751 00:44:39,519 --> 00:44:45,960 sane and the insane. It is a battle between rationality 752 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:53,880 and irrationality. And you sound like you're encouraged that sanity 753 00:44:54,599 --> 00:45:01,280 will again win the day. On that final thought, how 754 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:02,239 encouraged are you. 755 00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 2: I'm very encouraged, But it is not inevitable. And I'll 756 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,199 add one more framework for you. It is a battle 757 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,199 between those who believe in persuasion and consent versus those 758 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,280 who believe in coercion and submission. The Western canon is 759 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:25,239 in essence about persuasion consent because individuals have agency. I 760 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,880 believe if we build the right capacities, make the right 761 00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:33,440 arguments that humanize these principles in that compelling fashion that 762 00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:36,559 persuasion consent will prevail, and that's why I'm optimistic. 763 00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:39,159 Speaker 1: Well, he lays it all out in the book, and 764 00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:42,559 it is available everywhere you find your books. Today, thanks 765 00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:46,599 to my guest, John Tillman, CEO of the American Culture 766 00:45:46,639 --> 00:45:50,199 Project and the founder and CEO of the Whole of Giants, 767 00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:52,679 will have to have you on again to talk about 768 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,559 those projects you are involved in a lot of different things. 769 00:45:55,639 --> 00:46:01,760 So he's also the author of the new book Political Vice, 770 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,119 How the Radical Left Controls America and the Path of 771 00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:08,719 Regaining Our Liberty. You've been listening to another edition of 772 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,440 the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent 773 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,920 at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, 774 00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:35,199 stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.