Speaker 1: I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
Speaker 1: and I have three kids.
Speaker 2: I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
Speaker 2: out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1: This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
Speaker 1: and victories that come with it when coming out feels
Speaker 1: like the end of the world, but it's really just
Speaker 1: the beginning. This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 3: That's saloon.
Speaker 1: Did you like it? How I did it? More editorial?
Speaker 3: He did? Yeah. I mean, I'm we're in a professional
Speaker 3: role today. I say.
Speaker 1: I have to say though that the studio we've had
Speaker 1: to move places three times.
Speaker 3: Yes, And by studio, I me in my living room.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: We've rearranged furniture today. We've changed locations for this just
Speaker 2: three times alone for this little setup.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we've been doing a lot of work today.
Speaker 1: We clearly care deep We do tell them what we
Speaker 1: were working on today because I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: So we started a podcast a couple months ago called
Speaker 2: Bigay Solve Crime, and our main goal with starting that
Speaker 2: out was to talk about the murder of Katie Janis
Speaker 2: that happened here in Atlanta. In July twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: Katie and her dog Ooh, We were both murdered in
Speaker 2: Piedmont Park in Atlanta, which is the equivalent of like
Speaker 2: Central Park in New York City for Atlanta, very busy park.
Speaker 2: And Katie is a member of the LGBTQ community, So
Speaker 2: we felt really drawn to that crime and the fact
Speaker 2: that it's unsolved and seemingly kind of pushed to the side.
Speaker 2: And in the process of doing that podcast, we started
Speaker 2: talking to more people in the community about it. We
Speaker 2: met a film producer here in Atlanta, Sam Jones, with
Speaker 2: three Pop Productions, and she's joined our little team and
Speaker 2: we're working on an actual like film documentary about the case.
Speaker 2: And today was our first interview that we've we've done
Speaker 2: for it. We sat down with a former.
Speaker 1: She's actually still works for the police department. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: she heads up a cold case basically like a nonprofit
Speaker 1: for cold cases where you can call her team in
Speaker 1: to solve cases that haven't been able to be solved.
Speaker 1: She was saying that they get pulled in, the family
Speaker 1: can call on them, small police departments that don't have
Speaker 1: the man power can do it, or sometimes she just
Speaker 1: calls them and says I think I know how to
Speaker 1: solve this case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's just step one of the project that
Speaker 2: we're working on. We're just trying to bring more attention
Speaker 2: to this case. If anyone listening is like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: like I relate to or I knew Katie or anything
Speaker 2: like that, or have some expert insight, please reach out
Speaker 2: to us. Yes, our ultimate goal here is to get
Speaker 2: more eyes on the case and really get it solved,
Speaker 2: So that would be amazing.
Speaker 1: But also you do hear about these cases where once
Speaker 1: they start to like put a little bit of pressure
Speaker 1: on the police department to kind of revisit it ask
Speaker 1: more questions. Sometimes it just takes one person thinking.
Speaker 2: Back on something right they saw exactly. And we also
Speaker 2: want people to know more about Katie. You know, we're
Speaker 2: talking to some of her friends and kind of exploring
Speaker 2: her life and who she was is a person, because
Speaker 2: you know, I hate that when something really god awful
Speaker 2: happens to you in the way that you die, that
Speaker 2: becomes your story and it's like there's a life that was.
Speaker 3: Lived behind that person.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I am We've already been learning a lot about
Speaker 2: and I want to learn more so and for other
Speaker 2: people to know.
Speaker 1: And it deserves justice. Melissa and I talk about sometimes
Speaker 1: like these other cases, for instance, like Lacy Peterson or
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway, these cases get so much attention and there's
Speaker 1: so much pressure. The whole country is like, you know,
Speaker 1: looking and curious and trying to help, and this one
Speaker 1: just sort of feels like it came and went and
Speaker 1: we are part of this gay community and so to
Speaker 1: us really important. Yeah, and this person is walking around
Speaker 1: kind of like the cold case Lady Cheryl McCollum said today,
Speaker 1: they're probably out there pumping your gas or sitting next
Speaker 1: to you at a restaurant. This person is still walking around.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, and and we don't want to wait until
Speaker 2: it happens again, right, And that's unfortunately a very possible scenario.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Well, we'll be giving you guys more details
Speaker 2: on it as it comes along and gets put together.
Speaker 2: But we are very much like dedicated to doing this
Speaker 2: and excited about it very Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 1: And if you follow us on Instagram, you can see
Speaker 1: some of the very early footage of just while we
Speaker 1: were filming. But I think we're going to release soon
Speaker 1: a little bit more and you'll get to see the
Speaker 1: scope of where in the park and just even from
Speaker 1: like that that drone vantage point, it's so you get
Speaker 1: to see how big the park really is and how
Speaker 1: dark and how many trees. It just kind of brought
Speaker 1: it to life for me. Yeah, I was working about
Speaker 1: it from that perspective because I'm used to Piedmont Park
Speaker 1: in the daylight on the trail, like, it doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like this ominous place, right exactly, until you see it
Speaker 1: from that perspective, and then you're like, oh god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it happened in the middle of the
Speaker 2: night in the darkness of the park, so it's it's
Speaker 2: definitely scary, and I don't know, there's just so many,
Speaker 2: so many interesting.
Speaker 3: Layers to the whole thing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we're excited about it, and you can follow
Speaker 2: on Instagram Katie Janis doc check us out and we do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll be posting more little peaks behind the scenes and
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So right, let's get to our gay our other gay topic.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's get gay.
Speaker 1: Let's get gay. Let's just get you know, we looked
Speaker 1: so gay today. I said that. We took a picture
Speaker 1: earlier and I said, I look like a.
Speaker 3: Man, a man at all.
Speaker 1: I think I was trying to look a little dressy
Speaker 1: for the interview.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Same.
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't roll in here in my
Speaker 2: normal like close, I gotta get dressed. I know we
Speaker 2: look like a call like a basketball game right now
Speaker 2: that I know nothing about basketball, I can't even like really.
Speaker 1: Right now, we really do. Actually, it would be funny
Speaker 1: to do the pod next time. Really, fam Yeah, I
Speaker 1: actually am FEM sometimes that's what's really like shocking. I am.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I showed the girls the other day in the park,
Speaker 1: my me and my dress at them.
Speaker 3: I haven't even seen that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. They were like, what you need to
Speaker 1: do this way more often? Really, I'm going to show
Speaker 1: it to you after this.
Speaker 3: Can we post it?
Speaker 1: Can totally. I can't pull it up right now, but
Speaker 1: I can. I'll post it, okay anyway, all right, So
Speaker 1: today we're talking about a topic about capacity and like
Speaker 1: people have different levels of capacity for different things at
Speaker 1: different stages of their life. I'm gonna use me as
Speaker 1: the example because I'm going through a low capacity right
Speaker 1: now period in my life. It's very stressful right now.
Speaker 1: My business has suffered with the housing market. Also, my
Speaker 1: ex husband and I's relationship has really shifted. He got
Speaker 1: married for those of you who don't know, in the
Speaker 1: last month, and that was pretty like jarring for me,
Speaker 1: Like I think we just he ended up like eloping basically,
Speaker 1: But I think I just wasn't prepared. I had dreaded
Speaker 1: that day for so long, so when it finally came,
Speaker 1: it just felt jarring. Layered on top of just other
Speaker 1: stressors in my life right now, I feel a sense
Speaker 1: of like there's no room really right now for me
Speaker 1: to maintain what it would take to really be in
Speaker 1: present in a relationship, developing something I just don't have
Speaker 1: the capacity to every day be feeding a text string
Speaker 1: or a phone call. And what got me thinking about
Speaker 1: it is another friend of ours. I was expressing this
Speaker 1: to her and she was saying that someone she was dating.
Speaker 1: She's like, it's same thing, Like when you're just going
Speaker 1: through a divorce, you're figuring out custody, you're getting a
Speaker 1: new house, there's no real capacity to build something real. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so it kind of gives you. You're able to
Speaker 1: give people grace when they don't have the capacity in
Speaker 1: their life and it doesn't make them bad or good,
Speaker 1: it just makes them full.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: But I mean, and I think sometimes it can be
Speaker 2: difficult to give grace or realize what someone else is
Speaker 2: going to that in that situation. It's like if you
Speaker 2: were trying to date someone and let's say that that
Speaker 2: person is going through a lot of difficult things and
Speaker 2: you feel like you're not hearing from them as much.
Speaker 2: It's like it immediately becomes personal, you know, where it's
Speaker 2: not personal, it's just capacity.
Speaker 1: And it's like when you ask them about it, it's
Speaker 1: almost like you get I don't get defensive, but it's
Speaker 1: more like I feel bad, like I you know, I
Speaker 1: want to make excuses. So finally, in my situation, I
Speaker 1: just got in front of it and was like, look,
Speaker 1: I don't have any capacity at all. Like I have
Speaker 1: a capacity for friendship. I have a capacity for kindness,
Speaker 1: but like I'm not in a situation that I have
Speaker 1: like full rain right now, but I expect I will.
Speaker 1: I just don't today. And it gives me a different
Speaker 1: perspective when other people maybe have felt that way with me.
Speaker 2: But I mean, it's also like the capacity thing, it
Speaker 2: puts a spotlight on you, you know, because it is
Speaker 2: kind of like, well, why don't you like, shouldn't I
Speaker 2: be prioritized.
Speaker 1: You're excited about me.
Speaker 3: If you're excited about me, you would be like able
Speaker 3: to show up in every second of the day. But
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's like there's there's some like jobs like Okay, for instance,
Speaker 2: last night, I was working and I was salammed great
Speaker 2: example and like just completely to the point where I
Speaker 2: like wasn't even picking up my phone, like barely looking
Speaker 2: at anything. And then I get a tech I saw
Speaker 2: a text from Ali. I haven't been on social media,
Speaker 2: I haven't been checking my messages, and she's asking me
Speaker 2: about what my dinner plans are and like kind of
Speaker 2: confuse some cross wires there.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I don't.
Speaker 2: I have not had time to look at any of this,
Speaker 2: Like literally have not had time. And it wasn't any
Speaker 2: like avoidance or anything like that. It was the capacity
Speaker 2: that I had, like.
Speaker 1: I was able to help you in that moment, right exactly.
Speaker 1: She's like, got, well, the perfect the thing is there
Speaker 1: was a third party involved in the dinner and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, the third party has no idea to have
Speaker 1: my dinner with you, right, And so she was like
Speaker 1: I know I don't have it. I'm like literally slammed.
Speaker 2: It was like on my list of things to do
Speaker 2: before I even logged on to work.
Speaker 3: And then I just didn't have time.
Speaker 2: I didn't know how busy it was going to be,
Speaker 2: like working, because it's one of those things that changes
Speaker 2: day to day, and I had no idea it was
Speaker 2: going to be that busy. So it wasn't like I
Speaker 2: didn't want to go to dinner or I didn't want
Speaker 2: to extend the invite. It was I didn't have time
Speaker 2: to send the text. No. But I know that, like
Speaker 2: not in this instance, but in a relationship kind of
Speaker 2: situation where you're on the other side maybe waiting to
Speaker 2: be to hear from your person and you're like, damn,
Speaker 2: it's been like four hours, Like what, yeah, fuck could
Speaker 2: they possibly be doing? And it's like they're not doing
Speaker 2: anything outside of like trying to stay afloat in their
Speaker 2: own day to day.
Speaker 1: Life, right, And then you layer into all those things
Speaker 1: like let's say the documentary, the podcast raising a child here,
Speaker 1: working full time for a business that I have to
Speaker 1: work twice as hard. Now, you take all those things
Speaker 1: and then you layer in other anxieties and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe relationships you have with people, and then it just
Speaker 1: becomes like, dude, I'm like, I'm holding on by a
Speaker 1: thread right now. Yeah, so anyway I think it does.
Speaker 1: It's not even avoidance at that point, it's I literally
Speaker 1: don't have the extra minute. And I know you've been there, yeah,
Speaker 1: where it's just like I don't I really only have
Speaker 1: time for my solid crew.
Speaker 2: Right And it's like I've been on both sides. I've
Speaker 2: been in the I've been the person that it's not
Speaker 2: able to text. I've been the person waiting for the text.
Speaker 2: And it's like, when you're in the position of waiting
Speaker 2: for the text, You've got a zillion things running in
Speaker 2: your brain, stories of like what could be happening? Why
Speaker 2: are they not responding to me?
Speaker 3: I sent them a.
Speaker 2: Really cute picture, you know what, like, and you did
Speaker 2: even heard it. You don't have time to heart a message.
Speaker 2: And it's like the reality is maybe they opened it,
Speaker 2: saw it and like had to get back to whatever,
Speaker 2: didn't have time to or they thought they did. That's
Speaker 2: another thing that happens a lot too, Like I'll think
Speaker 2: that I responded to me too, and then I'll be like,
Speaker 2: why haven't they said anything back? And I go look
Speaker 2: at it and it's like I never even sent the message.
Speaker 2: I wrote it and I didn't send it. Like so,
Speaker 2: I think it's a matter of like when you are
Speaker 2: on either side of that of kind of trying to
Speaker 2: understand the other person's experience and also like on the
Speaker 2: anxious side not letting that other person's capacity issue ruin
Speaker 2: your day to day.
Speaker 1: Life, especially if they've told you, because it's like it's
Speaker 1: one thing also like.
Speaker 3: You know when someone's being avoidant, yeah.
Speaker 1: Versus like it's a capacity problem.
Speaker 2: Right, And it could be that they're being avoidant and
Speaker 2: they're using the capacity problem as an excuse.
Speaker 1: It's very tricky out there.
Speaker 2: But it's also like I as an avoidant someone with
Speaker 2: avoidant tendencies. I know now that if someone says that
Speaker 2: to me, like are you feeling avoidant?
Speaker 3: Is everything okay? It's like taking like.
Speaker 2: The the what is it the detective interview spotlight and
Speaker 2: putting it on you and being like, so, what wrong?
Speaker 3: What are your feelings right now in this moment? And
Speaker 3: I'll be like panicked.
Speaker 2: I feel like I have to answer. I feel like
Speaker 2: I have to come up with something that makes sense
Speaker 2: where it's energy whereas it's like no, there's really nothing
Speaker 2: going on internally.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to be avoidant.
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about other things that I still I
Speaker 2: can't even explain to you right now, I can't explain
Speaker 2: it to myself.
Speaker 3: And on top of that, it's like when I do start.
Speaker 2: To explain it, it's like, oh, like this isn't what
Speaker 2: I mean right Like, this isn't necessary.
Speaker 1: I'm processing totally.
Speaker 2: And it's like sitting there digging a fucking hole that
Speaker 2: you're standing in and just being like, great, it's getting deeper.
Speaker 3: I don't need it doesn't need to get deeper right now.
Speaker 1: And I think nobody wants to feel like the person
Speaker 1: who's got this block of like avoidance or it's such
Speaker 1: a buzzword to be avoidant or to be like mentally
Speaker 1: like if you're emotionally down or stress, yeah, like it's
Speaker 1: sort of for me at least, it feels shameful. So
Speaker 1: it's also like if you feel like you're in the spotlight,
Speaker 1: you're also like, dude, I feel bad enough right now,
Speaker 1: Please don't now make me feel like I'm depressed failing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't have that situation. No one's pressuring me, but
Speaker 1: I put my own pressure on to create capacity that's
Speaker 1: just not there.
Speaker 2: But I think it's also interesting, like as far as
Speaker 2: like the attachment style situation.
Speaker 3: You know, we all like the buzzwords, we all want
Speaker 3: to name it.
Speaker 2: We all want to say, well, this person's avoidant and
Speaker 2: that's why they act this way. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: but are they avoidant or they just don't have the
Speaker 2: capacity right now?
Speaker 1: How do you know?
Speaker 3: How do you know?
Speaker 2: But it's also when you delve into the like the
Speaker 2: other paths of avoidance. There's fearful avoidant and then there's
Speaker 2: the dismissive avoidance. Like those are two they're so far
Speaker 2: apart on the spectrum to me, Like it's one of
Speaker 2: those things. I'm like, they shouldn't even have the same
Speaker 2: fucking name, you know. Like the fearful avoidant is they
Speaker 2: want to be in the relationship, you know, but they
Speaker 2: are almost kind of like constantly like almost talking themselves
Speaker 2: out of certain things or like getting too scared, being
Speaker 2: like this is too serious, like it's too heavy, it's
Speaker 2: too much, and then I've got all these other things
Speaker 2: going on in my life, you know, and it's it's
Speaker 2: kind of like stacking on top of each other and
Speaker 2: you want to be there totally, you want to be
Speaker 2: in the relationship, whereas the dismissive avoidant, it's one of
Speaker 2: those things where it's like, Okay, I don't have the
Speaker 2: capacity issue and I need to leave, and I'm not
Speaker 2: even going to address your feelings in the meantime, I'm
Speaker 2: ghosting you. Yeah, like there is no explanation. I feel
Speaker 2: like a fearful avoidant. They do want to explain. Sometimes
Speaker 2: they can't verbalize even. I mean, for me, sometimes it
Speaker 2: takes me weeks to kind of digest my feelings and
Speaker 2: understand how I felt in a certain moment totally.
Speaker 1: And don't you also feel like sometimes it's fucking hormonal. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's like I might just be in a way that
Speaker 1: I don't want to smile today. Yeah, mostly I don't
Speaker 1: want to smile guys, to be honest, seriously, we just
Speaker 1: agree we're not going to right.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that my face looks vastly different when I'm
Speaker 2: not smiling exactly.
Speaker 1: But it's like I don't Sometimes for me even it's
Speaker 1: like I know, these certain days I'm just not going
Speaker 1: to be my best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and honestly too, for me, it's like
Speaker 2: it's a little triggering when someone asks me like what,
Speaker 2: Like when they either just hear me say like one
Speaker 2: or two words and they're like, what's wrong?
Speaker 3: I know? Or they see my face what's wrong?
Speaker 2: It's like it now fucking nothing, yeah, like literally nothing,
Speaker 2: And it's it's a childhood thing for me. It's something
Speaker 2: my mom still does to this day that I have
Speaker 2: to tell her, like you cannot judge how I'm feeling
Speaker 2: off of how I answered the phone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, true, it's not fair, is it?
Speaker 1: Like somebody like me who grew up with alcoholic I
Speaker 1: am extremely hyper vigilant on other people's mood. Like if
Speaker 1: somebody shows up in the room that's like slightly off,
Speaker 1: I immediately I'm vigilant on it, and then I attribute
Speaker 1: it to myself, which is definitely something I'm learning in therapy,
Speaker 1: Like I cannot. I have to stop doing.
Speaker 3: You can't take everything personally, No, I do? We all do?
Speaker 3: We all do.
Speaker 1: It's like it's clearly they're mad at me.
Speaker 2: It's one of the most self centered things when you
Speaker 2: really think about it, though, because it's like you immediately
Speaker 2: like I'm the me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, clearly, clearly effect they lay awake at.
Speaker 2: Night thinking about me even though we're just friends, you
Speaker 2: see each other every three weeks exactly.
Speaker 1: I know it's ridiculous, but we're I don't know this.
Speaker 2: This kind of like leads into what we're The other
Speaker 2: thing we're going to talk about is like kind of
Speaker 2: the ups and downs of like feeling hopeful, especially if
Speaker 2: you are like in and out of relationship or single
Speaker 2: completely and like I don't know, not finding anyone that
Speaker 2: seems like you're interested in it is like your brain
Speaker 2: goes to the negative, like it's so easy to be
Speaker 2: like it's my fault that this person is upset right now,
Speaker 2: Like that makes sense to me, right, and it makes
Speaker 2: sense that because I'm alone right now, that is forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, And it's like your brain to your point.
Speaker 1: I remember one time you were going through something and
Speaker 1: I remember saying to you, like, you know, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: okay to feel all these feelings, but start to get
Speaker 1: excited about what's around the corner. And you weren't right
Speaker 1: in that moment, but like I remember, you're like.
Speaker 3: Stop telling me things are going to happen, because they're
Speaker 3: not happening.
Speaker 1: And then it did within like weeks. I remember being like, dude,
Speaker 1: you didn't even have to wait a month. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it is like I do believe that. It's like there
Speaker 1: are moments when I feel like, oh my god, the
Speaker 1: sky is falling, and then something will wash over me
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I actually feel really hopeful about what's coming,
Speaker 1: and it's just like it can be in the same day.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think you have to like, don't make that
Speaker 1: the entire story. Kind of like when our friend was
Speaker 1: talking about the mushroom trip and she was like, it's
Speaker 1: you go down that hill and you work grooves into
Speaker 1: the mountain until every time something happens, you're in the groove.
Speaker 1: You have to get out of that and start thinking
Speaker 1: of actually the data. I mean, my therapist says this
Speaker 1: all the time. She's like, the evidence shows the exact
Speaker 1: opposite of everything you're saying. Yeah, if you look at
Speaker 1: the evidence, how often is it worst case scenario? Almost never?
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, almost exactly almost never.
Speaker 1: So and that's true. It's like she always says to me,
Speaker 1: tell me, what's the best case scenario, what's the worst case?
Speaker 1: What's the likely Yeah, and it's usually best case or likely,
Speaker 1: especially if you get my mom praying about it, which
Speaker 1: she does.
Speaker 3: That positive, Like.
Speaker 1: I start thinking like and then it happens, and then
Speaker 1: ever it's like, see my prayer works.
Speaker 3: You know, can we start a prayer chain with your mom?
Speaker 1: My mom always she always prayer chains, and now even
Speaker 1: the kids are like, have grandma pray because it does work.
Speaker 1: I'm she's doing one right now for me that literally
Speaker 1: it hasn't worked yet, but she's gonna.
Speaker 3: Start having sixteen hour days soon.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: She'll even pull people in that you're not. You're like,
Speaker 1: who else is on this prayer chain?
Speaker 2: Now? What happens when she's like yeah, yeah, yeah, now
Speaker 2: pray for my daughter, and then they like find more
Speaker 2: out about you and they're like when she's gay, it's
Speaker 2: like going to take like one hundred thousand hail Marys
Speaker 2: to like.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: There is something about it. Though, my son, who's like
Speaker 1: such a science nerd and kind of like, Mom, I
Speaker 1: don't even want to tell you what my beliefs are
Speaker 1: because you're going to be so rattled, and he though,
Speaker 1: even is like can you get Grandma on it? It's
Speaker 1: like there's it's just manifesting. But she is like powerful
Speaker 1: in this.
Speaker 2: I hear a lot of people talk like this and
Speaker 2: I've tried to do it.
Speaker 3: I really have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you have to believe my mom.
Speaker 3: It don't really I.
Speaker 2: Know, but I think that's just it, like we're talking about,
Speaker 2: my brain is so conditioned to be like it's like
Speaker 2: everything sucks, you know, nothing works out exactly. You always
Speaker 2: get this close and then it doesn't turn out, you know.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, it's it's it is a thing like
Speaker 2: that people have. I've heard them talk about like writing
Speaker 2: down exactly what you want and like actually writing it
Speaker 2: on a piece of paper, saying this is going to happen.
Speaker 2: I am going to have this, I'm going to have
Speaker 2: a Porsche whatever, and then I know I'm going for
Speaker 2: shallow and then like that it does happen because you
Speaker 2: wrote it down and you had full faith in it
Speaker 2: when you wrote it down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what she would say. My mom will literally
Speaker 1: do the prayer change. She'll pull everyone in and then
Speaker 1: she will say let it go, like it's done, You've
Speaker 1: got it, it's over, and.
Speaker 3: Then like most of the time it is, yeah, And.
Speaker 1: So then I have to be like, yeah, it works,
Speaker 1: can you work on the next thing? I got the
Speaker 1: one thing I want to say about you, like you're
Speaker 1: saying you get this close. One thing I will say
Speaker 1: about you, my friend, is that you're going for things
Speaker 1: most people live their life kind of like it's pretty average,
Speaker 1: like you might try to run a five k or
Speaker 1: like do you go for like the moon? So it's
Speaker 1: not like to me, it's like, yeah, you're getting close.
Speaker 1: That's fucking more accomplished than That's true most people. Like
Speaker 1: the stuff you go for is like big stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: And I think also it's like if you really sit
Speaker 2: back and reflect, And this is something that I've brought
Speaker 2: up recently on the podcast as far as like journaling
Speaker 2: and going back and looking a year ago where I
Speaker 2: was and just being like, Okay, I know I'm a
Speaker 2: different person now, but there was aspects of like reading
Speaker 2: that journal from a year ago where I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm in the same spot.
Speaker 1: I know I feel that way way that bothers me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what now, stop it?
Speaker 1: I know I am today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom, get your mom write it on a
Speaker 2: piece of.
Speaker 1: Paper like I want. I said that to my sister.
Speaker 1: I said I'm tired of me. I literally said this.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm so sick of it. And she was like, dude,
Speaker 1: then stop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I think I need to have like
Speaker 2: six month check ins on my journal, not wait a
Speaker 2: year doing the same thing.
Speaker 3: You fucking idiot. Do you listen to no?
Speaker 1: Okay, I know you wouldn't. Isn't he He might not
Speaker 1: be if he's not good to know. He's the one.
Speaker 3: That threw a chair off the roof in Nashville.
Speaker 1: All right, shit, okay, well we have moments, Okay, so listen,
Speaker 1: never throw a cht this song. He's got this song
Speaker 1: that I listened to the lyrics to the other day,
Speaker 1: and it's called I think it's called school, Chevy and Browning. Okay,
Speaker 1: if anyone listening has heard this song, to me, it
Speaker 1: is like, I don't know why school brand, Chevy and Browning.
Speaker 1: It's nothing about those things. But if you listen to it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, that is such a recipe for how to
Speaker 1: live your life, Like the song really is. And I
Speaker 1: thought I called my brother in law immediately because he
Speaker 1: is that Like he is the most solid human being.
Speaker 1: He loves my sister so hard, he helps my parents
Speaker 1: all the time. He's the most honest, good human Like
Speaker 1: when I see him, I'm like, oh good, Like he's here,
Speaker 1: He's got me. And but anyway, that song, I thought
Speaker 1: it hit me too that I'm like, that needs to
Speaker 1: be my life recipe for just how to live your life.
Speaker 1: Trust me, No, it's not that about that. I got
Speaker 1: people watching have heard it and they know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Okay, and you're gonna I'm not a country music fan.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately I am two.
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of people who throw chairs off
Speaker 2: of roofs in very busy cities.
Speaker 1: So I'm not a fan of throwing chairs off of roofs.
Speaker 1: But he might have had his heart broken. I've seen
Speaker 1: you pretty fucking mad.
Speaker 3: I'd never thrown a chair, No, but you threw something.
Speaker 1: You threw some punches.
Speaker 2: I like, wait what I even just sat here and
Speaker 2: said I couldn't take a punch. And that's why I
Speaker 2: don't want to try boxing. I know, right, No, I think, like,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I'm tired of myself in that way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I think when I look back, there are things
Speaker 2: that I'm like, I'm still doing the same. There's a
Speaker 2: Matthew Sweet song called Sick of Myself from the nineties.
Speaker 3: Woll okay, it's more relatable for me.
Speaker 1: But even saying all that, I'm also have had a
Speaker 1: lot of growth in other areas, right, So it is like, yes,
Speaker 1: there might be patterns that I've repeated, but I see
Speaker 1: them now and I'm working on them so hard.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think that there's so many things that
Speaker 2: are kind of happening to us along the way where
Speaker 2: it's like it becomes very clear, like it's a lesson
Speaker 2: that you now need in this situation. Yeah, Like if
Speaker 2: I didn't have this happened, then I wouldn't know how
Speaker 2: to interact and process this current thing.
Speaker 3: It's so true, like true, it happens all the time.
Speaker 1: It also gives you grace for people like I. I
Speaker 1: have someone from really close to a long time ago.
Speaker 1: She got divorced. She had had an affair and ends
Speaker 1: up getting divorced. And I remember during that time when
Speaker 1: she was having the affair, like I hate the friend
Speaker 1: I was. I was not kind, I was judgy. I
Speaker 1: was just like everything that you do that creates somebody
Speaker 1: to totally shut down with you. And then when I
Speaker 1: got divorced, and it wasn't about the divorce, it was
Speaker 1: about like she was blowing up. I felt like all
Speaker 1: these things, but I had none of the story. I
Speaker 1: didn't realize what she had been going through. I had
Speaker 1: no idea, and really that's not even my job. My
Speaker 1: job is just to hear her, that's it. So she
Speaker 1: in that time, this is years ago, I was probably
Speaker 1: in my early thirties, but then I had my divorce
Speaker 1: and she was so filled with grace and like love
Speaker 1: and support. And I said later, I'm such a jerk,
Speaker 1: like how are you this nice to me? And she's
Speaker 1: like why, Like, of course I am. And I thought
Speaker 1: I wasn't that for you at all, And she was like, bygones,
Speaker 1: you know, life goes on. We're here now. But she
Speaker 1: had so much grace for me because she had been
Speaker 1: through something terrible. Yeah, And so I thought, I I
Speaker 1: do have a grace for people.
Speaker 3: M hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's huge, Yeah, like because I
Speaker 2: I think that is a big thing that we learn
Speaker 2: along the way in life of like, you know, no
Speaker 2: one's perfect. People are making mistakes all over the place
Speaker 2: real time, and yeah, without ever intending to. We make
Speaker 2: mistakes without intending to. Sometimes we mean to make the mistake.
Speaker 2: I don't know, just poor judgment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you've told me before I'm about to
Speaker 1: fucking touch the oven again. Yeah, I'm about to do it,
Speaker 1: but somebody stopping me.
Speaker 3: Right, I'm gonna go plan traffic. Let's fuck around and
Speaker 3: find out.
Speaker 2: And but it's like I know, though, that you and
Speaker 2: my friend are still going to be there for me,
Speaker 2: you know, and like there's you're you're gonna watch me
Speaker 2: do it, You're gonna let me touch the stove, but
Speaker 2: you're also gonna be there to like bandage my hand again,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: And I'm learning from it and growing from it.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be a person who sits in
Speaker 2: my fucking house every day and watches Netflix and doesn't
Speaker 2: do anything, or.
Speaker 1: Sits in my fucking house telling everybody else what they're
Speaker 1: doing wrong.
Speaker 2: Right, kind of like if we had a podcast where
Speaker 2: we told people, yeah, exactly like that, like that.
Speaker 1: But the thing about this podcast is we're constantly saying
Speaker 1: what we're doing. We're constantly telling on ourselves.
Speaker 3: I am not a perfect human.
Speaker 1: I know that I'm not, but I am an imperfect
Speaker 1: human working towards something brilliant.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just haven't gotten I mean there yet.
Speaker 2: I just said this a couple of weeks ago on
Speaker 2: the podcast of like I don't want to be perfect.
Speaker 2: I will never I will never know everything, No, and
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here and act like I
Speaker 2: do know everything. I've made a lot of mistakes, but
Speaker 2: I've also grown from those mistakes, and I try to
Speaker 2: share those mistakes with our listeners and with friends and
Speaker 2: to own them and to help other people. Maybe you know,
Speaker 2: not make as big of a mistake, yeah, or just
Speaker 2: have it.
Speaker 1: In your mind, like I think when we were coming
Speaker 1: out in our day, back in our days, no roadmap
Speaker 1: at all. So it's like when you're with a catalyst
Speaker 1: or you're doing anything, it was just all for the
Speaker 1: first time versus like at least hopefully some people now
Speaker 1: have heard a few things that they're like, oh, that's interesting,
Speaker 1: that sounds like what they did, yeah, or.
Speaker 2: What they're experiencing currently in their relationship as far as
Speaker 2: like the avoidance thing. Maybe they are getting anxious because
Speaker 2: their person isn't super responsive to them and they're taking
Speaker 2: it personally where it's not personal, it's just a life
Speaker 2: that's being lived. And or just like dating in general,
Speaker 2: as far as like testing the waters with certain people.
Speaker 2: One thing that I've really learned is how long I
Speaker 2: stay in relationships where I need to go. But I'm
Speaker 2: afraid to let go of that person and understanding the
Speaker 2: hurt that comes along with staying in something for too long.
Speaker 2: It's hurting both of us from and it's preventing you
Speaker 2: from like finding the right thing, you know.
Speaker 3: So, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting too, like what you're saying as far
Speaker 2: as like how different things were even you know, eight
Speaker 2: years ago when we were coming out, I never once
Speaker 2: had I heard the phrase red flag.
Speaker 1: Red flag.
Speaker 2: No, we were married to boy scout, I had never
Speaker 2: thought about anything like when we were dating and meeting
Speaker 2: our husbands.
Speaker 3: There was no like form of self help, online community
Speaker 3: whatever talking about dating.
Speaker 2: It was like if a guy actually called you and
Speaker 2: asked you on a date, then great, solid, let's go.
Speaker 3: There was no like dissecting his every move, his childhood trauma. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: none of that.
Speaker 1: No, it's true. And it's like now it's like I
Speaker 1: sit with someone and I'm already in my mind thinking
Speaker 1: of all the therapy speak that I've heard. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's like that there's something kind of sad about that too, right.
Speaker 2: Because I'm like I'm thinking about when I met my
Speaker 2: ex husband. We met at a bar. Okay, that's people
Speaker 2: would say that's a red flag.
Speaker 3: You know, we met at a bar. He was pretty drunk.
Speaker 3: We had a terrible first kiss. That was because he
Speaker 3: was drunk. I wrote my number down. He said that
Speaker 3: the next day he could barely read my handwriting.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, but he called me and he the
Speaker 2: very next day he called me and left me a
Speaker 2: voicemail saying, hey, I want to hang out later today.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't him like having any there was no
Speaker 2: game whatsoever to be had that there's no three day rule,
Speaker 2: like none of that. And I'm sure today if I
Speaker 2: went and I had that same scenario play out where
Speaker 2: oh I met someone but she was really drunk and
Speaker 2: then she like kissed me and it was really sloppy
Speaker 2: and awful and then called me the very next day,
Speaker 2: Like how desperate is that?
Speaker 3: Like you could find so.
Speaker 2: Many things wrong with it, totally, Like, but it's because
Speaker 2: now we're so like we've got to read into every
Speaker 2: fucking move that these people make.
Speaker 1: Oh it's exhausting. Yeah, just like let it let it
Speaker 1: just yeah, let it just organically roll out.
Speaker 2: Stop researching on GBT, Like what does it mean when
Speaker 2: someone responds too quickly talk about that thing?
Speaker 1: That you said about when you google things cognitive cognitive bias.
Speaker 2: Cognitive bias, it's called So I hope I get this
Speaker 2: right because I'm really speaking from something I barely know
Speaker 2: anything about. But basically, like there's a mindset that people
Speaker 2: have as far as like certain things where they're like,
Speaker 2: I know I'm right about this topic. I'm going to
Speaker 2: use this loosely in political differences where someone is like, well,
Speaker 2: I know that the president said this, and this other
Speaker 2: person is like, well, what's actually happening is that the
Speaker 2: president's trying to do this, and the way that people
Speaker 2: google things is completely different. You know, someone could be like,
Speaker 2: what did the president say on Wednesday? And then the
Speaker 2: other person would say, like, you know, find me articles
Speaker 2: on this specific thing that the president said, and it's
Speaker 2: going to that result is feeding you what you want
Speaker 2: to hear, or.
Speaker 1: Even like when people search things. My sister and I
Speaker 1: were dying laughing because we have the opposite opinion about
Speaker 1: a business thing. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm gonna google
Speaker 1: it and I and she's like, what did you type
Speaker 1: in there? I was actually chatting it and I was like,
Speaker 1: tell me why this is true?
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, and that's just it.
Speaker 2: You can google two plus two whissels five and you
Speaker 2: will get results of why it's correct. Right. So it's
Speaker 2: it's the way that we are approaching things. It's kind
Speaker 2: of like when you go and tell a story to
Speaker 2: your friend about this relationship thing that happened, your friend
Speaker 2: has that cognitive bias where they want you to be
Speaker 2: the good guy in that situation, you know, And so
Speaker 2: like I'm telling Ali a story about like can you
Speaker 2: believe this? This person like thinks that I'm a terrible
Speaker 2: human because of this, and she'll be like, oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 2: You're not terrible at all. Meanwhile, the other person's telling
Speaker 2: that sort of their friend and their friends like damn,
Speaker 2: Melissa needs to.
Speaker 3: Be you know, speak to her. Yeah, I never talked
Speaker 3: to her again. And and there's there's a story in
Speaker 3: the middle, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe both can be true.
Speaker 3: Both can be true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think that's the other thing is it's like
Speaker 1: I don't know why it's such a polarized you have
Speaker 1: to be wrong for me to be right, yeah, And
Speaker 1: it's like so often it's just like there's so much
Speaker 1: nuance behind why something happens that it's not always that.
Speaker 1: It's never honestly, I can say it's never that black
Speaker 1: and white. Yeah, you know. Yeah, So I think everybody
Speaker 1: needs to kind of take a step back and realize that.
Speaker 2: And everyone's coming into it with a different set of circumstances,
Speaker 2: Like you know, you and I are coming into the
Speaker 2: situation with completely different childhood wounds. You know, like something
Speaker 2: that I might feel is a trigger event, you might
Speaker 2: not even notice that happened in the same room.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2: So it's And I think the other thing too, is understanding.
Speaker 2: Like we've talked about this, like do your wounds match
Speaker 2: my wounds? You know, like a are we triggering each other? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Are we bringing out these sides of it in each
Speaker 2: other that you know, make us feel like little kids again?
Speaker 3: Right, Like yeah, and kind of understanding of that.
Speaker 1: But sometimes you do pick people to kind of relive
Speaker 1: wound because you want to heal from it. And so
Speaker 1: then you have and I actually talk to somebody the
Speaker 1: other day, and you and I have talked about this.
Speaker 1: The woman that got divorced seven or eight years ago. Me,
Speaker 1: I am so different Now. I'm not talking about the
Speaker 1: way I look. I'm talking about my ability to do
Speaker 1: things now. Is I am a completely different human being
Speaker 1: The little girl back then needed the partner I had
Speaker 1: back then. Yeah, And so I think you evolve and
Speaker 1: you grow, and that person isn't there anymore. It's not
Speaker 1: to say that I couldn't have made it twenty years,
Speaker 1: forty years with the same person. It's just to say
Speaker 1: that if they met me now, they may not appreciate
Speaker 1: the new me. I'm not. I'm different. I'm completely different.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times people do get married quickly
Speaker 1: after they come out, and then it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I've grown leaps and bounds because it's essentially a new adolescence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you wake up a different woman three years later. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But and the other part of that, though, is too
Speaker 2: we are very different than how we were a few
Speaker 2: years ago. But it's also like an evolution that's taken
Speaker 2: a lot of work and a lot of like reflection,
Speaker 2: you know, Like if I sat there and was like, damn,
Speaker 2: I can't hang a fucking picture on the wall. Guess
Speaker 2: I'll never hang a picture again, like and just sat
Speaker 2: there and feeling sorry for myself that I didn't.
Speaker 3: Have a partner for eight years, you know, and like
Speaker 3: I don't like, where would I be?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And it's like it's kind of all
Speaker 2: these situations have forced us to figure it out and
Speaker 2: learn it, learn how to do it on our own
Speaker 2: right and not feel reliant on finding another person.
Speaker 1: And then gaining that self respect and that autonomy of
Speaker 1: the safety in you. Yeah, you know, I'm not there yet,
Speaker 1: but I am getting there. Yeah, I'd say last night
Speaker 1: I felt a little lonely. Interesting. I never normally do,
Speaker 1: but i've Last night, I was working and I was
Speaker 1: zooming with my sister some of the night because we
Speaker 1: were working together on something. And then when we hung up,
Speaker 1: I heard her saying to her husband, my brother in law,
Speaker 1: who I adore, that like, wait for me to eat,
Speaker 1: And it was like really late, And I thought, that
Speaker 1: is triggering a little bit, not triggering. I'm so I
Speaker 1: love that, but I want that. Yeah, Like I thought,
Speaker 1: I would love to be getting off the zoom and
Speaker 1: have someone waiting for me to eat. Yeah, instead, I
Speaker 1: ate by myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And I think that's like it's perfectly
Speaker 2: normal to feel that way.
Speaker 3: Like I feel that a lot, you know, But is that.
Speaker 1: A sadness that doesn't go away? If you end up single.
Speaker 3: Forever, but you won't be single forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know. We don't know. I mean I
Speaker 1: do have my mom on it.
Speaker 2: I do have mom on it, right, But it's also
Speaker 2: where your brain goes to like the most negative outcome possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that's what makes your brain. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: Why is that?
Speaker 2: Like it feels like thinking that negatively. It's almost like
Speaker 2: you feel like by thinking the negative.
Speaker 3: Thought, then its protect yourself.
Speaker 2: You're protecting yourself. But it's also like testing the universe. Yeah, like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be alone forever right right right now?
Speaker 3: Show me otherwise? Yeah, exactly proved me wrong.
Speaker 2: Like isn't that in a movie right where it's like
Speaker 2: something like God strike me down and I don't know
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: But it's kind of like when we my my sister
Speaker 1: and I are business partners, and during when COVID first hit,
Speaker 1: I went straight to we are so fucked, like I
Speaker 1: can't believe what are we gonna do? I'm scared? Like
Speaker 1: I went right to call our parents, like what.
Speaker 3: Are we doing? Call mom and dad?
Speaker 1: Like how are we getting bailed out? And my sister
Speaker 1: knowing nothing about anything with COVID. We were at the
Speaker 1: very beginning. My sister's like, it's gonna be great. You watch,
Speaker 1: It's gonna be so great. And I was like, it's
Speaker 1: you're illusional. She didn't that's her mindset. How so I
Speaker 1: literally was like, you are delusional. And so we ended
Speaker 1: up calling my parents and my dad of course, was like, yeah, Cass,
Speaker 1: like this is bad. Like this, I don't know. You
Speaker 1: girls better have like a backup plan. What's the plan?
Speaker 1: And my sister's like, there is no plan B. This
Speaker 1: is working and it's gonna be great. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: she was like fucking right, and it did, and it did.
Speaker 1: She's not saying that as much these days, and she
Speaker 1: is like my rock of hope and right now she's like, dude,
Speaker 1: it's not good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and wait is she older? She's older than that, Okay, yeah, But.
Speaker 1: I think it's just a personality too. I go, I'm
Speaker 1: a worrier, I'm an anxious person. Yeah, so like I
Speaker 1: go right to oh god, we're fight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how I would think too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's always like it's fine, but I and
Speaker 2: maybe that's just like different personality types. I know, Like
Speaker 2: I know some people have like the most positive, optimistic
Speaker 2: outlook on everything. And to me, I'm like, that feels
Speaker 2: like a brain exercise that I can I could not sustain. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like I can do it a little bit.
Speaker 2: I can do the get excited, get hopeful. But then
Speaker 2: I'm like, but where's the data. I know.
Speaker 1: I just read something that Republicans as a whole are
Speaker 1: happier than Democrats.
Speaker 3: Like they are happier as their dumber.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking, like, what, like that sucks. It's
Speaker 1: like that comic said, they get boats and they get happy.
Speaker 3: They get and they get Yeah. Although, yeah, I'm never
Speaker 3: owning a boat.
Speaker 2: Because you're a Democrat, because I'm so because I'm smart,
Speaker 2: I'm financially responsible, and I know that everyone that I've
Speaker 2: ever known that owned a boat was actually really unhappy
Speaker 2: with the boat. Really, I was never unhappy with the
Speaker 2: boat because it's there's always something wrong with the boat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's never like, oh, yeah, the boat's gonna
Speaker 3: just be up and running today.
Speaker 2: It's always like, no, well we just had this fixed
Speaker 2: and it cost us about four grand but it's okay,
Speaker 2: that's just a semester at school for.
Speaker 3: Our child when they're in college. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'll never own a boat, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Well it's okay, you're a Democrat, think about it. It's
Speaker 1: like those comics.
Speaker 2: I'm independent, by the way, registered independent anyway.
Speaker 1: Republicans. I'm gonna look for the study. But supposedly they're
Speaker 1: a lot happier than us. So maybe it's better to
Speaker 1: be a little dumber, is it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'd rather mean if you could be happier.
Speaker 2: God, Okay, I'm sure that the the Virginia like hill
Speaker 2: people that are inbred are very happy.
Speaker 3: That's true, and maybe that's all it takes.
Speaker 1: My parents are pretty smart and they're Republicans. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: my mom is blissfully happy. Like you've never met someone
Speaker 1: who nothing nothing's a problem, there's nothing that's a problem because.
Speaker 3: You just it's easy being Republican. What does that mean?
Speaker 1: She's praying, she's got the grosary going, she's got the beads,
Speaker 1: she's doing the whole thing, and it freaking is working
Speaker 1: for her. So no wonder why she's so happy, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a woman who lost her house
Speaker 1: in the hurricane and literally was like it's fine, looks sad,
Speaker 1: but like this is We're great. Look, we dead and
Speaker 1: I we have each.
Speaker 3: Other, I mean sure, yeah, and insurance, which is also helpful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have each other in insurance. That's probably a
Speaker 1: good thing.
Speaker 2: And something tells me that FEMA is not skipping out
Speaker 2: on rebuilding the really nice community that was knocked down
Speaker 2: by the hurricane.
Speaker 1: They're fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so all right, we're going down a path.
Speaker 1: All right, it's a pleasure. Look, please follow our brand
Speaker 1: new account.
Speaker 3: Which is Katie Janis doc on Instagram.
Speaker 1: And Janis is j A N N E S s
Speaker 1: Katie Janice doc on Instagram. We're just getting it started
Speaker 1: and look for updates there. Awesome, Thanks guys.
Speaker 3: I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate us
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Speaker 1: We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
Speaker 1: email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's Melissa M. E. L I S A and Ali
Speaker 1: A L. L I at gmail dot com. Or follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles