1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,919 Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. It is thought 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:13,439 Provoking Thursdays. Ativa's show, historically on our Program on Wealthy Wednesdays, 4 00:00:13,439 --> 00:00:18,800 has now moved to Thursday Afternoons, Thought Provoking Thursdays, Our 5 00:00:18,839 --> 00:00:22,440 Conversations with Atiba. Ativa is the former deputy executive director 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:27,440 for the National Black Caucus of State Legislators NBCSL. He's 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,679 a Strategic Alliance consultant and president of Party Politics US. 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,600 He's worked as a TV political contributor for B and 9 00:00:34,679 --> 00:00:36,520 C News, The Heat in the no with Mo, The 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,359 Leslie Marshall Show, at Heart Radio, Gov Exec ninety six 11 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:43,320 point three, w h u R, and the One America 12 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:46,320 News Network. He most recently was a guest host on 13 00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:49,799 Rising in American Daily News and Opinion of web series 14 00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:53,320 produced in Washington, D C. By the political newspaper The 15 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:57,560 Hill in nineteen. In twenty twenty, Atiba released his first novel, 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,759 Saving Grace, a political thriller. T But welcome forward to 17 00:01:00,759 --> 00:01:02,000 the Jesse Jackson Junior Show. 18 00:01:02,799 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: Jesse, Happy New Year, and it's great to be. 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: Back, Tiba. I am so grateful that you're here. There 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,840 are number of subject matters that I like to cover today, 21 00:01:09,879 --> 00:01:14,519 including but not limited to Minneapolis, Venezuela, and what's going 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,760 on generally in the world. But one of your consulting 23 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,560 specialties is collecting data to determine what the American people 24 00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:27,120 want the president of the United States to work on. 25 00:01:27,879 --> 00:01:30,239 Can you share a little bit more about that with us? 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? So, Jesus is hard to believe. 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 3: It was eleven years ago a friend of mine came 28 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,519 up with this idea of why don't we take get 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,560 a chalkboard and let young people on a college campus 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,000 educate us about what it is that they wanted to 31 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,159 see the next president work on. And what we did 32 00:01:50,359 --> 00:01:53,879 was home Depot built us a chalkboard which was four 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,400 hundred pounds. You learn a lot when you do these things, 34 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:03,079 but it was on wheels and then we willed it out. 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,120 And the whole idea of when I started like an 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,719 organization called Party Politics US, was about how do you 37 00:02:10,719 --> 00:02:13,680 put the fund before the politics to attract people. So 38 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:18,840 Coca Cola donated refreshments and items, and someone else. 39 00:02:18,719 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: Came out with. 40 00:02:20,759 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 3: A drone and we had music, and we created this 41 00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:29,240 party around the chalkboard at Texas State University. Within four days, 42 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,159 seven five hundred plus students had written on the board 43 00:02:33,199 --> 00:02:35,159 what they wanted to see the next president work on. 44 00:02:35,719 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: Wow. 45 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: And what we learned from that was people just want 46 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,879 to be heard. And so we had, you know, different viewpoints. 47 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,280 You know, some people wanted to be able to conceal 48 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:49,280 and carry, some people wanted abortion rights. It was like, 49 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,520 whatever it was, it was there. And then some things 50 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,960 that ended up becoming repetitive. We just said to people, 51 00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:57,639 just checked checked next to those items. 52 00:02:58,199 --> 00:03:01,199 Speaker 2: And it was fascinating. 53 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:04,439 Speaker 3: That those students weren't just sharing what they wanted to 54 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:06,639 see the next president work on, but that they said 55 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,159 simply by being feeling like they were being heard that 56 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,759 they it made them want to vote. And from there 57 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:17,800 and we called it chalkboard conversations, and from there we 58 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,879 started doing that and then we started having different conversations. 59 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,000 We started doing like little group talks and then panels. 60 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,080 And then that took us to Drake University for the 61 00:03:28,159 --> 00:03:30,800 Drake Debates. It took us to Morgan State University, It 62 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,759 took us to Virginia Statem. It just took us to 63 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,000 all these different places. But Ultimately, what it taught us 64 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,960 is that people regardless of age, because then older people 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,759 who saw that we were posting this were like, well 66 00:03:42,759 --> 00:03:45,000 what about us? So we started a private group on 67 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,120 Facebook and people started talking and what the. 68 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: Whole idea was, how can we do this and get people. 69 00:03:52,639 --> 00:03:59,879 Speaker 3: From across party affiliation, religion, ethnicities, gender, etc. Together to 70 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:02,360 the conversations. And it was just became fascinating and that's 71 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,759 what we started doing. That's how we started collecting data. 72 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: I think that's a fascinating story. I do have a 73 00:04:07,639 --> 00:04:12,479 question though, eleven years later, can you imagine that what 74 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,719 the same students or different set of students students might 75 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:18,800 be writing on a similar on a similar board if 76 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,959 you had to wheel a four hundred pounds home depot 77 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:26,720 onto the onto the yard of Texas of Texas, Texas 78 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:27,959 Southern or Texas State. 79 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:33,079 Speaker 3: Texas State, you know that's where Lyndon Johnson's I want 80 00:04:33,079 --> 00:04:36,079 to say library, but I know Lyndon Johnson School is there. 81 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,800 But well, first of all, we learned how to buy 82 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,759 small chalkboards and take pictures of people writing on those 83 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,600 talkboards a lot lighter and a lot easier to transport. 84 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,439 Imagine trying to get a four hundred pounds chalkboard from 85 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,720 Texas State University to Drake University in Iowa. It was 86 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,680 a chore and we believe it or not, there were 87 00:04:55,759 --> 00:04:59,920 some some students from Texas State University that volunteered the 88 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:02,959 that did that and they took that trip. 89 00:05:04,879 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 2: Today. Yes, I do think. You know, we live in 90 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:10,560 a very volatile, very sensitive. 91 00:05:11,879 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 3: Nation where anyone who disagrees with us people automatically think 92 00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:19,959 that they're against us. And I often use the phrase 93 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,040 to people that if you take a glass and put 94 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,439 it on a table and we're all sitting around the table, 95 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,079 we all came to the table from different places, but 96 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,600 we're all looking through the same glass, and as we 97 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:33,160 look through that glass, we're going to see something different. 98 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:36,480 In other words, we all come from different viewpoints, we 99 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,319 all come from different journeys, but we could be looking 100 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,720 at the same thing but see it have a different perspective. 101 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,600 And I think this overall, that's where we have what 102 00:05:44,639 --> 00:05:46,800 that's what's going on in this country, is that we're 103 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,240 looking through the same glass. 104 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,319 Speaker 2: We're looking through the same country. We're all part of 105 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,000 the same country. We just have different perspectives because we've 106 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,519 had different journeys. 107 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: Kind of feels like the Canterbury Tales. We're all trying 108 00:05:56,639 --> 00:06:00,439 to get to the Archbishop, the monk, the friar, the 109 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:04,600 various characters in I think Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales kind 110 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:07,879 of gave some semblance of what we're going through as 111 00:06:07,879 --> 00:06:12,279 a nation and certainly what TIVA experienced on Texas's campus. 112 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:14,920 I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior 113 00:06:14,959 --> 00:06:17,920 Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. It's thought provoking Thursdays. 114 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,120 Our conversations with the TIBA will continue when we come 115 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:30,800 forward on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Jackson eighty, Well, there 116 00:06:30,879 --> 00:06:34,279 will be any conversation with the TIVA on a myriad 117 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:38,279 of issues, and one that is dominating the news as 118 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:42,199 we speak, tragic shooting and the loss of life in 119 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,399 the state of Minnesota of a young thirty seven year 120 00:06:46,399 --> 00:06:51,199 old mother, young white woman who was exercising, by all 121 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:56,720 obvious and objective accounts, her First Amendment rights to talk 122 00:06:56,759 --> 00:06:59,199 to law enforcement, shout at them, scream at them. They 123 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,720 were certainly being somewhat aggressive when he grabbed her car doors. 124 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,639 If he was going to snatch her out of her car. 125 00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:08,680 Whatever that conversation was, that, clearly from my perspective, did 126 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,439 not lead to her being read her miranda rights, the 127 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:16,959 right to remain silent, the remind the right to counsel, 128 00:07:17,519 --> 00:07:20,959 all of those things that you're issued when police officers 129 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,560 get ready to snatch you out of your car, which 130 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,959 is clearly what he was doing when he grabbed the 131 00:07:27,079 --> 00:07:31,079 door handle. But the irony for me, Attiva is this, 132 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,600 And I'm not just talking about the fact that this 133 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,040 tragedy occurred just four blocks from where George Floyd was killed. 134 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,959 I'm talking about all of the incidences where an unarmed 135 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:51,000 African American man or woman were denied, their rights were 136 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:58,040 not read, their rights were unarmed, and trained law enforcement 137 00:07:58,079 --> 00:08:03,639 officers shot them. Now, I make the distinction between trained 138 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,959 law enforcement officers who function at the municipal letter and 139 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,759 level and border patrol agents who work near the nation's 140 00:08:12,839 --> 00:08:18,319 borders to secure them and their interaction with legal immigrants, 141 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:25,120 illegal immigrants, undocumented workers, the process that we never read 142 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:30,439 about in the paper. When some action between border patrol 143 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,320 and someone crossing the border goes awry, it doesn't make 144 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,279 the news. But given the behavior of how the American 145 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,639 people themselves are being treated by ice in our cities. 146 00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:47,360 We can only imagine that that which we cannot see 147 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,799 when I is actually on the southern border, that some 148 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,639 crimes against humanity are taking place that the American people 149 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,440 have never heard about. You're getting your behind whoop by 150 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,679 ice in Minnesota or Chicago, or Los Angeles or wherever 151 00:09:05,799 --> 00:09:09,960 else ice is. You better believe someone who has absolutely 152 00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:15,080 no constitutional protection is taking it on the head. But 153 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,799 this event yesterday is particularly troubling because not only because 154 00:09:19,799 --> 00:09:22,919 of the national attention, but it wasn't a young black 155 00:09:23,039 --> 00:09:28,279 man or Breonna Taylor. It was white woman and an 156 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:34,039 agent shot her in her face, an unarmed woman. The 157 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,159 consequences of that a team but I think are just 158 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,360 as extraordinary as any event in the last thirty years 159 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,720 of civil rights and social justice TIBA. 160 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:47,879 Speaker 3: So many things come to mind with all that. Thank 161 00:09:47,879 --> 00:09:54,080 you for that, Jesse. First off, my thoughts, my prayers, 162 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:04,960 my condolences to her family. M Ron grind And an 163 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,679 astronaut just spent one hundred and I think in seventy 164 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,519 eight days on the space station, and he talked about 165 00:10:14,759 --> 00:10:19,720 living a lie. He talks about in an interview he 166 00:10:19,759 --> 00:10:27,559 talks about seeing the earth from above and seeing lightning 167 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,639 hit in one place and how it reverberated across the 168 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,039 planet even though we don't see it. He talked about 169 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,720 how he could see not just the seven continents, but 170 00:10:41,879 --> 00:10:46,159 see how all the continents and there then the people 171 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:52,080 all connected questioned and asked, are we doing and living 172 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,159 the right way by putting. 173 00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: Profit over the planet? 174 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: Wow? 175 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,519 Speaker 3: I'm saying this because what we are seeing today, whether 176 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,000 or not it is in Russia or China or the 177 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:12,399 United States, is a reverberation of a few men who 178 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,120 are using the power that they believe that they have, 179 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:22,039 and that they're targeting people who are innocent in the 180 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:29,639 pursuit of profit. And over time we look at religion 181 00:11:29,759 --> 00:11:35,039 and scripture and we say the word prophet. All of 182 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,720 these things that we are seeing happen today have been prophesied. 183 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,480 We have put our faith in our belief and other 184 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,360 things aside from the Creator. And until we come back 185 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:51,759 to recognizing that, then our humanity and our livelihood. 186 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,039 Speaker 2: And our lives are at stake. 187 00:11:53,879 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 3: So you have people that believe that these men will 188 00:11:58,279 --> 00:12:02,440 make their lives better. And again what I said before 189 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,679 the break perspective, people are coming to these things with 190 00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:09,559 different perspectives, and we don't want to listen to how 191 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,480 and why they feel the way that they do because 192 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,320 there's so much there's stone at them that is creating 193 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,399 fear as opposed to offering hope. 194 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: Let me ask this question to Tiva because my father 195 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:28,759 often tells this story of how I guess it's Robert F. Kennedy. 196 00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:33,039 He went to an urban area and he held up 197 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:37,840 a little black child, and the nation's response when Bobby 198 00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:42,399 Kennedy was running for president, I think in nineteen sixty eight, 199 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:48,360 was poor little black baby. Look at Bobby Kennedy holding 200 00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:53,360 poor little black child. Then he went to Appalachia and 201 00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:56,799 maybe even to deep rural South, and he held up 202 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,639 a kid of a similar age, but the kid was 203 00:13:00,879 --> 00:13:12,200 poor and white, tighter, tattered clothing, hungry, ill kempt I 204 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,000 struggle with hygiene, absence of water and soap and basic 205 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,600 and living in a shotgun house. And America's response between 206 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:25,840 Bobby Kennedy holding up the little black child was one response, like, 207 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,480 all little black kids are in poverty, so we understand that. 208 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,240 But when they saw the little white kid in poverty, 209 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,639 the country responded with this idea of a fervor for 210 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:43,879 a war on poverty and to eliminate poverty. I'm thinking 211 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:50,879 in this moment that the death of this mother in Minneapolis, 212 00:13:50,919 --> 00:13:55,240 and we've seen how we've been treated as young African Americans, 213 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,879 some of whom have died due to police behaviors. You know, 214 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,679 it's so used to young black men getting shot. Just 215 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,200 another brother got shot. Chicago has a crime problem. There's 216 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,679 just another look how violent Donald Trump says we are 217 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,279 in these various cities. But this is different. This is 218 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:17,600 a white woman who got shot exercising her constitutional rights. 219 00:14:18,919 --> 00:14:25,320 And Christinoan the administration, the president, the vice president offer 220 00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:30,639 an interpretation of events that the investigation itself has not 221 00:14:30,759 --> 00:14:34,519 yet rendered. And I'm finding a level of hypocrisy and 222 00:14:34,679 --> 00:14:36,559 irony and irony in that. 223 00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:43,919 Speaker 3: Fatiba Muhammad Ali said the eyes that the hands can't 224 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,919 hit what the eyes can't see, and we've heard the 225 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,519 believe is Norm Chowski say that he who controls the 226 00:14:53,600 --> 00:15:01,039 news controls the people. I'm constantly engaged in conversations with 227 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,120 my friends who work on the Hill and my friends 228 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,399 who are elected officials around the country about the need 229 00:15:06,559 --> 00:15:11,399 to create a more simplified, concise message. Part of my 230 00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:16,320 message is that this woman who died was more than white. 231 00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:19,679 She was more than a woman, She was more than 232 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,279 a mother, She was. 233 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: A human being. 234 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: Yes, when I think about the movie, I can't remember 235 00:15:29,279 --> 00:15:32,639 the name of it, but Samuel Jackson plays a father 236 00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:36,679 who kills or shoots a man, kills a man because 237 00:15:36,679 --> 00:15:41,039 he rapes his daughter a time to kill. And in 238 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:49,440 the movie, Matthew McConaughey, he's up against this Southern da 239 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,200 and when he in his closing arguments, he gives this 240 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,279 picture and tells the jury, now, imagine that this child, 241 00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:02,200 that your child was in the situation, what's raped and whatever? 242 00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:07,639 And he gives us gory picture and then they know 243 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:10,960 that it's him talking about Samuel Jackson. And he ends 244 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:16,960 it and he says, now, imagine she was white. We've 245 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,399 got I believe that there are a lot of reasons 246 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:23,799 for us to be fearful today. And I'm listening to 247 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,120 a book right now called Peaks and Valleys, and I 248 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,120 just finished reading it for the like maybe the fifth 249 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:28,720 or sixth time. 250 00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: Who moved my cheese? We're in a valley right now. 251 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:35,120 We want to get back to the peak. 252 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: We want to be able to be on the top 253 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,120 with the moral high ground and the financial well being 254 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,840 and the religious believe in that. Okay, what we're doing 255 00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:48,399 is right, But how do we get there with all 256 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:50,759 of these things that all keep pushing us down to 257 00:16:50,799 --> 00:16:53,399 the valley. And I think that in order to get 258 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,399 back to the peak, we've got to figure out how 259 00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:59,000 do we let go of the baggage. The baggage is 260 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,240 how we keep saying, well, they keep doing this to 261 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,079 us because of the color of our skin, because of 262 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,359 my gender, Because how do we figure out that all 263 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,559 of us, regardless of ethnicity or gender or nationality, are 264 00:17:12,759 --> 00:17:18,839 all have the same enemy. We can't do that if 265 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,119 we keep carrying the baggage. The woman who was killed 266 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,799 you just said, was killed just blocks away from where 267 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,839 George Floyd was killed. And both of them were killed 268 00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:32,400 by law enforcement. Both of them were killed by men 269 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:37,680 with a gun. America has a gun problem. America has 270 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,200 a violence problem. America has an issue. Yes, it is 271 00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:44,400 deeply rooted in terms of ethnicity. That goes back to 272 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,799 I'm just going to use two thousand and eight to 273 00:17:46,839 --> 00:17:49,960 twenty sixteen because I've been saying this on the show, 274 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,640 that they didn't attack President Obama just because he was 275 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,519 a skin color. They attacked him because he represented us, 276 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,119 because he offered hope. They don't want us to hope, 277 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,359 because when we hope, we can be free. That's what 278 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,240 they did to us when we were enslaved. And we're 279 00:18:08,319 --> 00:18:12,079 still enslaved today because we're still living on the preceidice 280 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,799 of this idea that fear is grounding us and keeping 281 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,720 us from moving up the mountain that doctor King talked about. 282 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,200 We think about these things and these quotes and these 283 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,119 speeches that have been given, but there's a deeper meaning 284 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,400 that I too will get to the mountaintop. 285 00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: Let me try this, because I know we have just 286 00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:31,640 two or three minutes before we come forward. And this 287 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:37,440 is a profound conversation for me. I still mourn the 288 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,720 loss of Charlie Kirk. Do I agree with anything he said? No? 289 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,799 Do I like his politics? Did I know? Do I 290 00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:51,160 agree with his right wing spin on everything and matter 291 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,640 of fact, racist spin on me. Absolutely not. Do I 292 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,880 think that that man, at the end of the day 293 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,640 had the right to return home to his wife and 294 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,359 to his family. Absolutely I do, because at the end 295 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,400 of the day, we all get to go home. That's 296 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:14,319 American That was political violence, and it is unacceptable on 297 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,839 the left or on the right, when we do it 298 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,079 to each other, when we do it to others, it 299 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,920 is just plain wrong and it needs to stop. I 300 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,440 want to make the state the distinction, however, between political 301 00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:33,880 violence and state violence. State violence, when law enforcement puts 302 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,400 their knee on the neck of a citizen, when law 303 00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:45,599 enforcement shoots a woman protesting in the face, that's state violence. 304 00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:51,880 That's different than political violence. That's state violence. When the 305 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,400 head of the Department of Homeland Security or the President 306 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,319 of the United States or the Vice president of the 307 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:03,880 United States make justifiable statements about an American citizen who's 308 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,359 married with kids and seeks to change the narrative to 309 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:13,200 justify why she was shot in the face, that's different 310 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:19,240 for me than pure political violence. That's state sponsored terror. 311 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,680 And it's going to happen again because the government itself 312 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,519 is justifying and is essentially told in numbers of speeches 313 00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:32,359 where President Trump was running for office, he said, why 314 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,519 don't you put your cuffs on him and slam their 315 00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:35,880 heads into the back of the car. 316 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:39,039 Speaker 4: Take the gloves off. He would say, go ahead and 317 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,640 hit him. They come up, they spit we hit back 318 00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:46,599 or something. He said, that's state violence. For men and 319 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,599 women who serve the country honorably and historically have been 320 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,119 seen as public servants, whether they're border patrol agents, law 321 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:59,759 enforcement officers. We serve and protect the public. Never before have. 322 00:20:59,799 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: The talking about weaponizing a vehicle. Never before have people 323 00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:08,960 weaponized law enforcement towards and against the American people on 324 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,200 the scale that we're witnessing it. More conversations with a 325 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,000 Tiba on KBLA Talk fifteen to eighty. When we come 326 00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:21,200 forward on KBLA it stopped provooking Thursdays with one of 327 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,839 our most thoughtful contributors. Atiba is our very special guest 328 00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:27,519 in this hour. Atiba, welcome forward to the show. 329 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 2: Hey, jesse A. 330 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: Tiba, I I just want to call her name. Renee 331 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:40,000 Nicole Good lost her life at the hands of the 332 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,920 United States. An American citizen was shot in the face 333 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,480 by someone who swore to uphold the Constitution of the 334 00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:53,039 United States and to serve the people of the United States. 335 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,799 They shot her in her face, and the justification before 336 00:21:59,839 --> 00:22:03,240 the investigation has been completed, from the President of the 337 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:07,720 United States, the Vice President of the United States, and 338 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:13,519 the Secretary of Homeland Security have all but said they 339 00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:17,960 reserve the right to shoot an American in the face 340 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,880 or protesting their presence in our cities. It's hard for 341 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,599 me to imagine that I'm even having this conversation ATIBA. 342 00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to believe, but it's a conversation that 343 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,519 we need to have. It's a This is one of 344 00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:39,640 those conversations you would expect the President to come out 345 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,200 and say something that was compassionate, something. 346 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 2: That was that would be healing. But we're not going 347 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,279 to get that. I keep saying, no one's coming to 348 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,200 save us. This is up to us. 349 00:22:56,799 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: This is up to us to figure out how do 350 00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:03,440 we connect with our friends and fellow citizens in Middle America. 351 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,960 It is up to us to figure out how we 352 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:09,559 go to the rust Belt and to the South and 353 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,720 talk to people who don't necessarily agree with us, but 354 00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:14,880 that have the same issues that we do. 355 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 2: And part of those issues right. 356 00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 3: Now is and I keep asking my friends who are 357 00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:23,079 running campaigns, and maybe it's something that I feel like 358 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,039 I keep sending, nobody's next some save us. 359 00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: Maybe it's sometimes to do myself to do a video. 360 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,599 Speaker 3: Of a family sitting at a computer looking at how 361 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,839 their healthcare costs are going up and ended just shortly 362 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,480 with it's a thirty second clip that says affordability as 363 00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:44,039 a hoax. I'm jumping to this that I'm going to 364 00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:46,359 come back to where we're. 365 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:46,599 Speaker 2: We're just talking about. 366 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,079 Speaker 3: Take your talk is what about the person who goes 367 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,920 into the grocery store and buys butter and eggs and milk, 368 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,720 and before they get to meat and vegetables, they've already 369 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,319 spent close to thirty dollars. 370 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,759 Speaker 2: Now, let's go back to why some of these folks. 371 00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 3: Joined and are wearing these masks and going out in 372 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,480 the streets. They were offered a great deal of money 373 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:17,319 even as signing bonus. We don't know what their situation is, 374 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,839 what led them to there. But how do we, like 375 00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:23,680 I'm a Dallas Cowboy fan, figure out how to attract 376 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:29,000 someone else to my team. Usually is because I'm paying 377 00:24:29,559 --> 00:24:31,920 I'm going to pay you more than than another team 378 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,759 is going to be or I think that the culture 379 00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:34,920 there is going to be better. 380 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 2: We have to figure out a way to show and 381 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:38,880 to re. 382 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 3: Establish that the country's best interest is not to attack Venezuela. 383 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,640 The country's best interest is not to attack our own 384 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,880 citizens and the best in the country's best interests are 385 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,880 not to keep kicking out immigrants who are doing or 386 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,839 who are who are not violating or breaking any laws. 387 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,240 We've got to figure out how do we when we 388 00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:05,079 see law enforcement doing what we saw happened in Minneapolis. 389 00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 2: And we know how the world came to our age 390 00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:11,200 came to our to support us after George Floyd. But 391 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,200 we've got to go back to slavery and talk about 392 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,599 how this law enforcement culture and virus that is in 393 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,640 this country that plagues us, that is a cancer, started 394 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:23,039 with slavery. We've got to go back. 395 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 3: And talk about how profit over the planet started with slavery. 396 00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:29,960 We've got to go back and talk about how the 397 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,200 idea that poor white people being against black people was 398 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,960 started because there were a few people that have money 399 00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:42,799 that told those poor people that I'm not the problem. 400 00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:45,759 Speaker 2: The problem is that we have this free labor right here. 401 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,519 Speaker 3: We have to do a better job of not just 402 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,200 talking about the color of our skin, but to talk 403 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,400 about how this country has always put its knee on 404 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,599 the back, has always shot people in the face, has 405 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,480 mamed has killed, has kicked people out, and it is 406 00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:04,039 all founded in this idea that this country was founded on, 407 00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:07,799 which is a corrupt thing, which was enslavement, because we're 408 00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:10,240 still living it out today. It's just that we're going 409 00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:12,599 to our jobs every day and getting paid a little 410 00:26:12,599 --> 00:26:15,680 bit and then getting taxed a lot, and not realizing 411 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,440 that we are the slaves of today. 412 00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:22,759 Speaker 1: I can say this, and I really appreciate the depth 413 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,799 of this conversation and certainly the tone and spirit within 414 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,160 which you are engaging it. I just longed for the 415 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,000 moment where a woman can exercise her First Amendment rights. 416 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,880 She can shout at law enforcement and shout at law enforcement, 417 00:26:39,559 --> 00:26:42,799 and a law enforcement officer or agent can come from 418 00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:48,039 behind his mask and say, ma'am, I'm just doing my job. Ma'am, ma'am, 419 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:54,359 I'm just doing my job. But these stone faced, masked 420 00:26:54,799 --> 00:27:00,519 bullies who've been authorized by Boveno, Christie Home and the 421 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:03,759 President of the United States to come to our cities 422 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:10,440 and well, just open up a cannawoop pass. You know, 423 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,440 I think it's beneath the dignity of the creed of 424 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,359 the nation. Give me you're tired, Give me your poor, 425 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,200 give me your huddle. Masses who yearn to breathe free, 426 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,480 come to these teeming shores where we essentially have a 427 00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:27,160 place for which we can live free and express ourselves 428 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,319 in freedom at the Kennedy Center, in the clothes that 429 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,960 we wear, in the dresses that we wear, or pants 430 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,279 that we wear. If you like cross dressing, hey that's 431 00:27:38,319 --> 00:27:42,200 on you. But in America it's not a problem because 432 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,079 in America you are free to be yourself. But at 433 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:50,359 some point in time on Tiva, decency is part of this, ma'am. 434 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,000 I'm just doing my job, I ma'am. I have a 435 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,720 job to do between now and five o'clock. I want 436 00:27:57,759 --> 00:28:00,480 to go home too. And I remember when they sent 437 00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:04,759 the agents to and the National Guard to Los Angeles, 438 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:07,000 and I said, hey, take every take all of them 439 00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:11,240 a cup of coffee. They're there on orders, They're just 440 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,720 there to do their job and make them feel comfortable. 441 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,839 In that space. Something has broken down in terms of 442 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:25,400 the civility between even men who have orders to punish us. 443 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:29,240 There is still a way to handle the moment, in 444 00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:33,240 the moment, in the now that can If they won't deescalate, 445 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,799 we can deescalate. I believe that there's this thing called 446 00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:39,559 being human, as you stated, Atiba, and being decent. 447 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's being is about being human. We're not being 448 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,079 human and we've lost class. I remember two thousand and 449 00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:55,000 two being in France and talking to people and practicing 450 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,799 my French because I used to speak fluently, and the 451 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:04,640 conversation being that, Tiva, your country is like the Simpsons. Well, 452 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,559 Europe has been seeing that about us for a long time. 453 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,319 We're seeing it now America. Our culture, from the top 454 00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:16,200 to the bottom is the Simpsons. You know, we've got 455 00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:20,000 Bart literally running the country in the sense, and we've 456 00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:23,920 got so and what is Bart or what is his father? 457 00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: Do you know? 458 00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: And Bart's like, don't have a cow man? And you know, 459 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,680 all these things like this is the cartoon. We are 460 00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:35,599 in the cartoon. We can't change this until we recognize 461 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,160 that we've got to be the adult in the in 462 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,400 the room, and that we cannot think that we can 463 00:29:41,599 --> 00:29:46,240 do this by giving away our power. Because as John Lewis, 464 00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:49,519 who you served in Congress with, always told us about 465 00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:54,640 the importance of the vote, and people took that for granted. 466 00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 2: The vote is the most important thing. 467 00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:01,759 Speaker 3: And if we don't get that today, then we're not 468 00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:02,759 going to recognize that. 469 00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 2: On November third, twenty twenty six. 470 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 3: They're going to do whatever they can to to take 471 00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:10,079 more of that away from us. 472 00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go back to this too, slavery. 473 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,799 Speaker 3: We act as if I won't say all of us, 474 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,480 but some of us act as if civil rights began 475 00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:27,960 with nineteen sixty three, nineteen sixty civil rights movement, and 476 00:30:28,039 --> 00:30:32,200 it didn't or that the civil rights movement was like 477 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,440 the beginning of our history. 478 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,559 Speaker 2: It wasn't. We've got to go all the way back 479 00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:37,319 to the beginning. 480 00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:43,119 Speaker 3: This woman being killed reminds me of the woman who 481 00:30:43,359 --> 00:30:50,319 died in during the Civil rights movement, Viola driving some 482 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,680 of that during the bus boycott. 483 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: Teba. We're going to come forward. I'm Jesse Jackson Junior 484 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,519 on KBLA Talk fifteen to eighty more. When we come forward, 485 00:30:57,519 --> 00:30:59,599 we'll pick right up where we left off. I'm Jesse 486 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,759 Jackson Junior listening to conversations with a Tiba on KBLA 487 00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:12,000 Talk fifteen club on BLA Talk and on Thursdays his 488 00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:18,720 newly scheduled hour, our conversations with Atiba will commence. Welcome 489 00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:21,279 forward to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show and Conversations with 490 00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:25,599 the Tiba. Atiba. Hey, Jesse Hey, Tiva, just before the break, 491 00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:29,279 you were making the comparison between miss Good in Minnesota 492 00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:33,640 and the tragic loss of the life of viol Luitso 493 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,799 from Selma to Montgomery. 494 00:31:35,599 --> 00:31:43,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, just overall, I'm kind of speechless right 495 00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:46,720 now because I feel like there are all these different 496 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:53,680 things that are happening that are metaphors and lessons and 497 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:59,200 something for us to use out of this, and we've 498 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,119 got I think we we have to go back and 499 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,839 talk about the past, because the past has a way 500 00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:13,039 maybe not a repeating itself, but it dagon certainly rhymes. 501 00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: And so. 502 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:25,359 Speaker 3: Renee's death and passing in Minneapolis, I feel the same 503 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,039 way I feel about George Floyd that I. 504 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 2: Hope that it's not in vain. And the only way 505 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:32,759 that we can make sure that. 506 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,359 Speaker 3: It's not in vain is for us to pick up 507 00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:41,880 and recognize that through our own veins flows blood, and 508 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,519 that blood connects us far more than this on the 509 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:49,680 surface color, because there are people of all different ethnicities 510 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720 that have A and B and O and O negative 511 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,319 oh plus et cetera, et cetera. That we're more connected 512 00:32:55,319 --> 00:32:57,400 by what's in our veins than we are by what's 513 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,079 in our color, and part of that connection is also 514 00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:05,519 in our tissues. I use the term that our issues 515 00:33:05,559 --> 00:33:10,119 are in our tissues. So this whole idea that you know, 516 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,480 it's white versus black, and Muslim versus Christian and gender 517 00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:18,160 this and it's not you know, John Glenn, when he 518 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,359 was in Out of Space said how could anyone believe that. 519 00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:24,279 Speaker 2: There isn't a God? 520 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,839 Speaker 3: And I know that there are people that are questioning 521 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,799 how is God and why is God letting this happen? 522 00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:37,000 And my answer is that because we dropped the ball, 523 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,720 we have got so caught up in me and we've 524 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,880 forgotten about. 525 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:49,279 Speaker 1: We Yeah, yeah, let me ask this question to you. 526 00:33:49,359 --> 00:33:52,559 But often on our show I asked, I ask our 527 00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:56,960 regular contributors to share with our audience how they can 528 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,640 be supportive of your work. Tell us about Saving Grayson. 529 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:00,720 Where we can get your book. 530 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 2: Thank you for that. 531 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,599 Speaker 3: It's ironic, you know, actually it was when when we 532 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,719 came up with the cover for Saving Grace. It was 533 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,519 a friend of mine who, after reading the manuscript thought, 534 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:18,519 like Aativa, this is justice. It's about the country, it's 535 00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:22,480 about corruption, it's about power, it's about the absence of justice. 536 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 2: Why not use a gabble. 537 00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 3: And show it breaking the flag, but not to be 538 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,480 derogatory about it, but to show that it's broken. But 539 00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:34,880 then by the time you get back to that, you 540 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,599 get to your third book. The how it's the story 541 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,119 is putting it back together. So I say that to 542 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:44,119 say that Saving Grace, the main character's name is Anthony Grace, 543 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,599 which is hence the reason why it's called Saving Grace, 544 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,039 Who's the story starts off with him being kidnapped, and 545 00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:52,280 it's all tied to a case that he's working on 546 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:56,000 something he finds in Washington, DC that he knows that 547 00:34:56,079 --> 00:34:58,679 if unless people see it, that they're not going to 548 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,440 believe it, and it's an underc our operation. And I 549 00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:03,719 say all that to say with the premise, so hopefully 550 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,920 that pulls some people in and gets a visual because 551 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,559 what we see happening today is a travesty of justice. 552 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,280 And so I kind of feel almost like, you know, 553 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,679 in terms of the cover, that it is exactly what's 554 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,119 happening today, and that all of us have to be 555 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,960 play a part in saving this and and and forming 556 00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:24,480 some way to you know, how do we save Grace. 557 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,519 Speaker 2: How do we save ourselves? 558 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 3: How do we save the idea that you know, we're 559 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,840 all in this together. But you can get my copy 560 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,000 of my book. You can either put my first and 561 00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:37,000 last name, which is Atiba Matt June dot com, A 562 00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:39,880 T I B A M A d y un dot 563 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,239 com and it'll redirect you to the website Novels by 564 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,079 a Teba dot com to. 565 00:35:47,039 --> 00:35:47,639 Speaker 2: Get a copy. 566 00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 3: And if you buy a copy on my on my page, 567 00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:52,480 I will sign it and put it, put a personal 568 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,880 message in it and send it. Or you can also 569 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,559 go onto Amazon and put Saving Grace and Atiba and 570 00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:00,639 it will come up and you can get it either 571 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,119 of the physical form which I can't sign because it's 572 00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:07,880 coming from Amazon, or you can get it on Kindle. 573 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:13,159 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for that. At Tiba Tiba, Miss Good, 574 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,760 miss Renee Good. Does she represent a turning point in 575 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,239 the consciousness of the nation's country for the or the 576 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,239 activity activity of the role that the federal government has 577 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,400 historically played in the States and a red line that 578 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,480 we may be crossing now. 579 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 3: There's so much to unpack with that and including her 580 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,000 last name Good because you know, my great grandmother used 581 00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:37,880 to say good better, best, never let it rest until 582 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,960 your good is better and your better is best. 583 00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: Better. 584 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 2: It's got to make her this good. 585 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,119 Speaker 3: Her, you know, better in terms of our minds and 586 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,719 in terms of how we not just call on her, 587 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,880 remind ourselves of what happened, but recognize that we are 588 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:54,920 in this together. My great grandmother used to also say, 589 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,400 it's a good thing to remember, but a better thing 590 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,159 to do. Always hang with a construction gang and not 591 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,719 the wrecking crew. And what we see right now is 592 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,119 definitely is the wrecking of an idea that began two 593 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,920 hundred and fifty years ago this July. We are in 594 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,639 the midst right now of we have to we are 595 00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:16,960 in a reckoning right now, and we have to realize 596 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:22,000 that we are we the people, and that the government 597 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:25,960 right now what we are seeing is not is not 598 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,360 representative of what we have been believed that the government 599 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,840 should be, and that there are a small cadre of 600 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,679 men and there are some others who are helping them, 601 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,440 that are pushing for an agenda that is for them. 602 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,960 It is not for us, and it's not for the 603 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,760 people that voted for them. They have made them believe 604 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:48,599 that this is for them. 605 00:37:48,639 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 2: This is right now. 606 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 3: The back door of the bank is open and they're 607 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,840 taking everything that we have in order to make us 608 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,679 enslaved to them and have to bend our need to them. 609 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,000 So when we think about George Floyd and we think 610 00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:03,440 about the bended knee that was on his neck, and 611 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,800 we think about Renee Good and we think about what 612 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,039 happened to her, she was doing something good and she 613 00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:12,400 was her life was taken from her, and that can 614 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,480 happen to any of us. That we all have to 615 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,199 figure out how we are going to come together as 616 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,920 a nation, because the reality is they want us to 617 00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:26,840 fear them, and we have to let go the same 618 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,920 way that John Lewis talked about how he let go 619 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,440 of his fear walking across the Edmund Pettis Bridge that 620 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,039 after they beat him and his skull was cracked open. 621 00:38:35,599 --> 00:38:37,920 When he lived through that, he didn't have any more fear. 622 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,800 That he was able to stand up and speak to that, 623 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,599 to the injustice that was going on. 624 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,039 Speaker 2: And all of us collectively need to lock arms together, 625 00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:48,880 imagine and think about whether or not we're touching each 626 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:49,360 other or not. 627 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 3: How those men and women crossed the bridge, even though 628 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,000 they were denied the opportunity to walk the first time 629 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,960 that they went back and they went back and they persevere. 630 00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 2: They persevere because they did. 631 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,599 Speaker 3: Not stop, and they said, ain't gonna let nobody turn 632 00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:06,239 me around. 633 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: It's going to be an interesting commemoration of the two 634 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,519 hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. That's 635 00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:17,840 exactly what we are celebrating for the entire year, certainly 636 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,599 through July fourth, twenty twenty six, the two hundred and 637 00:39:21,639 --> 00:39:24,880 fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. And to get 638 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,639 the new year started. The first chapter is probably named 639 00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:34,960 Renee Good that one woman in Minnesota to start the 640 00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:38,840 New years off was shot in the face by the 641 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,760 United States ATIPA. It's always a pleasure to have you 642 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:42,239 on the show. 643 00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 2: It's always good to be with you or Jesse. 644 00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: You know, we have about one minute left the tea, 645 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,920 But did you want to summarize for us just a 646 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:49,800 brief port of hope. 647 00:39:51,079 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 3: I'll just summarize it or try to do with this. 648 00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:56,320 We're in twenty twenty six, and it's a two hundred 649 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,599 and fiftieth anniversary of this country, and there's so much 650 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,800 that that has happened over the two hundred and fifty 651 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,360 year history of this nation, and there's so much that 652 00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:07,920 is going on today and just for us to look 653 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,760 for the symbols, the symbols not just the freedom, but 654 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,840 the symbols that have marked oppression in this country. And 655 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,559 then over the course of time how people always figured 656 00:40:18,599 --> 00:40:21,039 it out ways, whether or not they did it because 657 00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:23,000 they wanted to or because they were forced to. 658 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 2: Come together for the greater good. 659 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,559 Speaker 3: And today is like no other, perhaps more so than 660 00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:35,119 ever before. It's this is our time to recognize that 661 00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:37,559 we have to come together and to let go of 662 00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:39,960 the fear and to take one step in front of 663 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,840 the other and keep marching, as you know in terms 664 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,360 of the staircase. Staircase that you know we have to 665 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,960 keep walking on faith and believe that God has something 666 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,519 better in store for us, but that we've got to 667 00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:54,559 figure out how. 668 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,639 Speaker 1: To do this together. Always an amazing conversation. Thank you, 669 00:40:57,639 --> 00:40:59,679 t But I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening to Jesse jacks 670 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,480 Junior show. This is thought provoking. Thursdays when we come forward, 671 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,599 none other than doctor Johnny Mack