Speaker 1: The disclaimer to the fair season. Karen's out there, Oh
dare you? All guests on the show do not reflect
the opinions of the host. The purpose of the show
is to have interesting conversations, stretch our minds and grow
not what we want. If you are looking for an
echo chamber viewers and listener discretion, he's advised.
Speaker 2: Didn't you talk about extreme im We were guilty from
the sun. They don't fear the questions, they fear the
fuck so we see.
Speaker 3: Just see through.
Speaker 2: They come, Thank you. They shows what real?
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, what is happening?
Speaker 4: And what is up?
Speaker 1: They hold up that glass man because we are going
to fill it a Welcome to the Prometheus Lens podcast,
the place where the conversations are always in lightning. I'm
your host Doc Brown. Here we like to use the
allegory other Prometheus Lens to take a second look at everything. Hey,
if you're new to this channel, welcome to the Hero's Journey.
Please be sure to hit that light yew and smash
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Speaker 3: Much appreciated.
Speaker 1: Well, guys, Man got another banger for you. Been crazy
day so far, Man, been busy day. This is my
third sit down today, so I was going to bring
this one live. This is a guy I've had on
my radar for a little while. I finally got my
adhd Squirrel but in gear when I seen him on
Instagram and I reached out to him to see if
he'd come hang out with this man. He was willing
to come on. So, Man, I like to welcome for
the first time, and hopefully this is the first of many.
I like to welcome to show Nelly Man from the
Dancing Toaster podcast. I've got tongue tied there for a second,
The Dancing Toaster. What's happening Nelly?
Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, thank you for having.
Speaker 1: Me Man the Dancing Toaster. Now, how does someone come
up with a name like that? Do you have toasters
that dance?
Speaker 5: Sir?
Speaker 1: Feel us in.
Speaker 5: I am a huge Ghostbuster's nerd, So even before I
became a Christian and a pastor, I've always been pretty
Ghostbuster obsessed. And in the sequel, in Ghostbusters two, there's
that scene where you know they're kind of pouring that
pink slimee inside of the toaster and then they play some.
Speaker 3: Your Love Love is Lifting Me Some Heard's Dancing on
the table.
Speaker 5: So when I had like a list of names when
I was going to launch the show a while back,
I was talking with the missus and said, you know
which which one kind of sticks out to you? And
each one had like a name and a logo, and
She's like that was just really fun. I said, you know,
I like that too, and as far as I know,
it didn't infringe on any copyright. So I was like, boom,
there it is. There's my little ghostbuster's reference. I can
force in and still have a little bit of fun.
And plus it's it's definitely not preachy at all. I
live up in the Pacific Northwest. Christianity is not welcomed
with open arms, so it's very disarming as well. You
see my cute little toaster mascot and you have no
idea what to expect, and I just tell people, O, yeah,
it's a paranormal podcast, you know. And yeah, it's it's
an outreach in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, yeah, and names can get you in trouble.
I found that out real quick. I'm guilty of being like,
you know, esoteric, you know, and kind of deep thinker,
and I was God, you know, Prometheus, he stole the fire.
So you know, as Christians, that's what Jesus says, we
suffer from, suffer from lack of knowledge. So I'm going
to metaphorically steal the fire from the enemy and use
it for the good man.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: That was my idea. But yeah, I constantly get commience
and emails you know, your show is venerating or falling God,
and I'm like, no, I never I mean, I just
thought the name was cool. I mean I never looked
into that. I mean, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got. I got so much shade for for
the name too.
Speaker 5: Well. I didn't at first, but then as I as
as I started getting exposure and whatnot, and I remember
some of the biggest flack I ever got. I had
the privilege to be on Remnant Radio and uh man,
there was there was some pharisical shots fired when I
was on there. Oh, like on all the Ghostbuster and
stuff he has behind him. And I was like, guys,
They're like that doesn't he know you know, Gozer is
is a God. I was like, you do know, Gozer
is a is a fictional deity, not an actual Mesopotamian deity,
like a chill out.
Speaker 3: So I was taking shots for a fictional one.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, love or
hate our community. That's like I actually went to California
and sit down with Apollo on the Apollo Podcast. And
I had recently got a Tennessee jersey and you know
Tennessee orange, so it's orange. And uh, my favorite player
that I can remember through my lifetime was Alvin Kamara
and he was number six. So yeah, it's like, oh,
he's got on a backwards hat. That means he's not
telling the truth, he's lying, he's obfuscating. Oh look he's
got an orange shirt on. That's the free Mason color.
And oh look he's got a six on the chest
and one on each soular triple six. Oh my gosh.
And did you see he made the okay simple It's like, God, almighty, guys,
I love you, but come on, come.
Speaker 5: On, same same I even and and I totally understand
where you're coming from now after you know, almost two years,
not quite but but getting there and doing this even
like the little symbol of like, oh.
Speaker 3: He's got this called cross phones. I'm like, guys, it's
an anime and he's a pirate cam down this is
It's not that crucial?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When is a color of color? When is a number
a number?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying that these things are not real,
but that doesn't mean every SOB and her brother that
has that color, number or symbol is he.
Speaker 3: All exactly exactly?
Speaker 4: Yep? Yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well man, you kind of give us a little walk
through of the name, you know, tell us a little
bit about you. You know, who you are, what you do,
what got you into this, and why you wanted to
pull a trigger and get into this nasty game of podcast.
Speaker 5: Well, I've always been into this subject matter, even prior
to becoming a Christian and a pastor.
Speaker 3: I've been a pastor quite some time now.
Speaker 5: About I want to say, let's see, fifteen fifteen years
been a pastor and six of those this would yeah,
this would be year sixteen, so almost six of those
has been a senior pastor of Evergreen Covery Chapel up
here in Washington State. Moved up here to Planet Church
and it was very isolating, not having anybody, and I'm
part of Calvary Chapel loosely now I am a Calvary Chapel.
But I've even gotten into some trouble recently, you know,
because of the show for that too. Well if we
can touch on that later if you want. But I've
always been interested in these topics, and man fell in
love with doctor Michael Heiser, who's with the Lord now.
He really helped kind of give us a lot of
permission to talk about these things with a little bit
of authority behind them, and so diving into his material
wanting to open the eyes of other Christians to the
reality of the supernatural realm, wanting to be a place
for answers as it pertains to some of these fringe topics.
Ghostbusters being one of the inspiring things wasn't just because
I thought it was funny or cool, like I find,
you know, ghosts and hauntings and those kinds of stories
incredibly fascinating. And there's a lot of people that have
had these experiences, and typically the Christian response, or the
church's formal responses, is typically very materialistic, very naturalistic, like, oh,
you didn't actually experience anything, you were you know, you
imagined it, nothing actually happened. And it's like, when we
do that, we're closing doors of ministry. Now, that doesn't
mean every every shaky pipe in somebody's house is going
to be some supernatural by any stretch, but you know,
digging into these stories, there's there's some some certainly some
fascinating stuff out there, and I wanted to approach them
and give Christians a way to think about them biblically.
And kind of the third string of that strand was,
I'm in a very hostile place. It's a hostile towards Christianity,
New Age, and the occult and stuff is huge up here.
And so I was like, well, how can I build
a bridge to to those kinds of folks? And and
so the way that I do that, it's.
Speaker 3: Like I don't. I don't I approach it like Heiser did.
I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't say any of those things are fake or fictional. No,
I say, I believe all those beings you're talking to.
I think you're talking to them. I just don't think
they are who you think they are. And anytime somebody
tells me they have an experience, I don't immediately think like, oh,
you were hallucinating, or you imagine that it didn't really happen,
to say, Okay, let's assume it really did happen. Let's
try and think about what it actually could have been
and how we can know that. And of course I'm
gonna approach it from a biblical perspective as a pastor.
But so, yeah, that's kind of the how the show
came to be, and it's it's been great because I
get to I've had that chance to meet all kinds
of cool people like you.
Speaker 3: So I've been really blessed by that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Man, that's the saying which I didn't go the pastor out.
I rebelled. But growing up, I was the kid in
the family that everybody said was going to be a pastor.
But I always thought the Bible and that stuff was
fascinating even as a kid. But like you, I stumbled
into to Michael Heiser and I was like, oh my gosh,
you know this can't be right, you know, and the
other people talking about all this kind of weird frenzy stuff,
and got to looking through the Bible, man, and I'm like, man,
it's it's right there. It's just it's a lot in
the original languages and the culture and context of the
people all that time. So yeah, it's not you know,
divine inspired word. But man, if you read Lewis Ginsberg
Legends of the Jews, you know, if you read the
Book of Josh or some of their legends and their
their low and mythology and their historical you know, framework
it feels in a lot of dots, you know, And
it connects a lot of dots and feels in a
lot of gaps to the scripture that's lost to us
in modernity. And that's something that's always fascinating me, is
connecting the dots. So I can definitely identify Weil that part.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for for sure.
Speaker 5: And like both of us heavily inspired by by Heiser.
He kind of lit lit a spark of sorts for
a lot of folks, and like I said, almost gave
permission for us to because so many we're like no, no, no,
you can't talk about these things, and he was brilliant
and he's like, no, we can, and we should. You know,
even defending like the Book of Enoch and stuff and
stuff like that like that, even even bringing that up
in a lot of Christian circles was a no no,
and still is. I mean, some still carrying out and
pharisee out when you even bring it up. But it's like,
come on, Like the apostles read things, and.
Speaker 3: This this was something that they read.
Speaker 5: It clearly influenced their their thinking. That alone makes it
something we should consider.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and that's the thing. Does it even
have to be uh, you know truth? You know what
I'm saying, Like, we can read these things and it
could be a lie, but it's a cultural framework. You know.
They show you how they they thought or what they believed.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: So I tell people a lot of times when I
talk about some weird or fringy stuff and I'm pulling
it from ancient texture or whatever, and I'm like saying,
I usually try to preface it with saying, now, I'm
not saying this is, you know, the gospel truth and
this is actually factual, but hey, they believed it. So
if they believed it, you know, I mean we have
to take that into account and realize that that had
to influence their their thinking and their and their writing too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Precisely, even as it pertains to like ghosts and things
like that, Like there there are specific words that speak
of spirits and in Hebrew and in Greek, and and
they all have distinct meanings. And these authors knew exactly
what you words they were using and when. And it's
interesting when you start seeing them thrown around, like Okay,
does it mean what I think it means?
Speaker 3: And and how is that possible?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: And so But even even when it's a quote in
the Bible. I used to teach a Hermeneuticts class, and
I would freak out. It was at a high school level,
so it was in college or anything, but it was
at a.
Speaker 3: High school level.
Speaker 5: And I used to start the class off real controversially,
I say, I can prove you right now, the Bible
says there is no God. And the kids, all the
little Christian kids, their eyes would get real big, you know.
I said, take them to the verse it says, you know,
the fool says in his heart there is no God.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: But but I said, you see how I just took
that out of context. I just told you the second
part and sold a tea as gospel, right. And that's
how it'd make the argument of the importance of content.
And it's funny because a lot of Christian folks will
agree with that sentiment, like, oh, Yeah, context, context matters.
Context matters, But a lot of what Heiser exposed was
the context that a lot of people were using when
interpreting the Old Testament was like first and second Secretary Judea.
Speaker 3: That wasn't the context.
Speaker 5: Abraham wasn't alive during that time, Moses wasn't alive during
that time. You got to go much further back to
understand what the heck they were talking about when they
use certain terms and phraseology. So it's yeah, even those
who understand the importance of context don't often dig.
Speaker 3: For the right historical context when seeking understanding.
Speaker 1: MM and even not even searching up the Jewish people,
I found like if you look at like the geography,
you know, like for instance, Moses, you know, he was
brought up and raised in Egypt, and so if you
look into Egyptian history and his you know, in their
mythologies and stuff. Of course some of that rubbed off
on Moses. He was there almost his entire life, But
you missed the connection to you know, hath Or and
the Golden Calf incident. Well that's why they built the
calf because I mean, you know, if we were just
reading this in modernity, it's like ah, why are they
worshiping a stupid cow. Well, no, they just come out
of Egypt, where they worshiped you know, the fertility god
Hath or the bull. So you know, I mean when
they were in Acts traveling around, they cast the demon
out of that prophetess, you know, that witch or whatever,
and the people were so upset. You know, you study
the the history and culture of the Ottoman empire and stuff,
that's what they had. They had these you know, witches
and stuff is like slaves or bonds women, and just
like today, they sold readings and stuff. So when they
knocked that spirit out over, yeah, they were pissed off
because that was their one of their sources of income.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And one of my favorite things to point out about
that particular story is I've been talking a lot about
like like the occult and its influence on the modern world.
In the ancient world, these things weren't fake. I love
highlighting that in the Exodus account that Pharaoh's magicians were
able to duplicate several of the early miracles. You got,
you know, the woman in Acts that's performing these these
these readings. It doesn't give the logistics of how she
had this power, but she clearly had power that was
very profitable to our owners. So it's like, these these
powers are real powers. Doesn't mean they're real good. We
just know that they're that they're they're real to an extent,
not everyone claiming to have them. You know, you got
the what is the the Long Island Medium. You know,
you got some straight fraudsters. But then some of this
stuff is is legitimate, and acknowledging that it's legitimate helps
us to call it what it rightly is, as as
as truly evil and saying, hey, that that's coming from
another source, that that's a genuine thing. And the Bible
is what changed my mind on that, you know, and
bringing up the other the other entities and stuff. I
remember after being exposed to the work Aheiser and then
going back through Exodus, and it says, you know, he's
not only judging the Egyptians, He's not only judging Pharaoh.
It says that he's judging the gods of Egypt, the
Yelohem of Egypt, who are being judged. And then you
it brings a whole new light to all the plagues
that each of the plagues that that God carried out
was another Egyptian deity that he's basically sticking it to.
And it's like, oh, you like that frog headed one,
I'm gonna give you more frogs than you know what
to do it, you know. Yea.
Speaker 3: It was old school trash talk, you know.
Speaker 5: So the polemics, the polemics are there, and they're really strong,
and we miss all that, especially when we start to
pretend as though like the spiritual world is just super
simplified in the modern church.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, and I loved it. Like Derek Gilbert, for instance,
I consider him a real close friend. Love his work.
The first I guess. And here's the thing with me
and my listeners probably get tired of hearing it, but hey,
there might be somebody new that hasn't heard it. Okay.
But I was always, as Phil Robinson said, I was
the C plus average guy. I never liked to read.
I never read anything that I wasn't absolutely forced to read.
I loathed it. But around too that I was twelve,
when I started finding these guys and finding all this information,
I remembered all those Bible stories from a kid that
didn't really make sense to me that I just kind
of left alone. But I'm like, oh, man, that's why
that was this way, or that's why they did this.
Now you're making this stuff makes sense to me, I
have to know. So then I started buying books, and
I mean, you can't see them all behind me, but
I mean I got that ain't even half of them. Man,
I got so much books. Now I can't stop because
it's connecting dots and it excites me. And I finally
understood that that verse in the Scripture where it talks
about the beginning of all wisdom, you know, or fear
is the beginning of all wisdom, fear of the Lord.
And when you get into the Hebrew, that word's translated
more often than not as awe you know, to be
in awe of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom.
So now that makes more sense than that. It calls
to me because I'm like, oh yeah, every time I
open that up and I'm reading finding this stuff, it
does puts me in awe and gets me excited. But
Derek Gilbert, his Last Clash of the Titans, was the
first real book that I bought and looked into when
I started seeing all the Greek gods, you know, and
how they are the Genesis six fallen angels at Hercules
and Perseus. These are the demi gods.
Speaker 3: Well that's the thea for them.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's it's incredibly exciting. Like Heiser
used to say the same thing, that he was just
a dot connector. You know, He's like, I didn't come
up with any of this stuff. I'm just connecting dots.
And and uh, there was just this this beautiful humility
that that came with that that was appealing. And and
and I mean if anybody had the right to be arrogant,
it was him. Guy was. Guy was brilliant. I got
all these books back here, but I a lot of them.
I treat his reference. I haven't even read all the
ones that are behind me. But but if he was
sitting in front of a wall of books, you know,
he read them all and might even read them all twice. Heck,
he might have written some of them behind him too,
I mean, because because.
Speaker 3: He didn't write a lot as well.
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, once you see it, you can't unsee it,
and it opens up a lot of things to you,
and you start to see patterns and parallels and and things,
and you don't know where it's going to lead you.
But but I find that many that go start going
down that path. I'm noticing that there are some similar
things that you start to connect and start to notice
as well, some of which can get you into trouble.
And like I said, I've become quite the trouble maker
and I'm not gonna apologize for the for the truth.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yep. Well, man, I guess with your podcast
and your journey, especially being a pastor and research and
having do you have guests on your show toos it
just like solo studies?
Speaker 3: So I haven't had guests.
Speaker 5: There are so many great shows that have guests, so
I wanted to bring something different to the table.
Speaker 3: So a lot of what I do.
Speaker 5: Storytelling is huge Historically as long as we've been breathing
on this wet dirt rock, we've been telling stories. So
you know, they carry information so so well, which is
why we keep telling them, right. So I like to
lean into the heavy storytelling element. So that's how I
frame a lot of the stuff, is just retelling the
story and doing it in kind of a fun, exciting way.
I say, I add lights and sounds to it. It's
an audio show. So there's not actual lights, but there's
a lot of sound. There's music and things like that
as I retell these these stories and then afterwards I
just approach it with analysis and say, how can I
think biblically about this?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 5: What? What fits within the biblical framework and not the
modern one but but the historic one, and even man
even doing that has challenged so much my my my
doctrinal positions because as I get into etymology, that naturally
takes me into ecclesiology and history and things like that.
So a lot of this has been a I'm on
a journey man. This show has been a journey. I've
I've kind of met a lot of cool people and
a lot of them don't agree with me, and that's
been great for me though that that that push back,
the challenging of ideas My listeners and they love to
message me and say, hey, I like this, but I
don't I don't like that, Like have you thought about
it like this? And sometimes I say, yeah, you're right,
that's that's opened me up to something, and other times
I say, love.
Speaker 3: You, we can agree to disagree on that.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: I have a lot of listeners that try to convert me,
you know, to maybe their their particular denomination or school
of thought. And and but I'm I'm on a journey.
My mind has been changed about certain things. And it's
because finding out what do these terms mean? And not
what did they mean in the fifteenth century, not even
the first or second with the Old Testament stuff.
Speaker 3: You got to go back further than that.
Speaker 5: But once you start, once you start digging, you start
seeing some other things too, and it rocks some of
the framework. It's a very uncomfortable thing. The more I learn,
the more I realize I don't know. And it's been
a humbling process. But man, it's a beautiful brokenness. And
I didn't expect that, you know, when I set out
on the journey. But it's been one of the one
of the best parts. You know, some of the episodes
in the beginning, I won't lie, I sound kind of arrogant,
like I'm so sure myself, you know, And it's like
I've been humbled as I've been doing the show, because
you know, even if you catch some earlier episodes versus
some some of the recent stuff, the approach is different.
The way I talk about stuff is different. And one
of the things that I do that I think is
different where I was inspired by the the Wi files.
I love the Wi files and.
Speaker 3: The Talking Fish. I freaking love that Talking Fish. It's hilarious.
Speaker 4: So I was like, well you're talking, harshmallow man. Well right,
well I just I started talking, all right, that would
be I thought about. You know, my videos on YouTube
are trash because again it's all audio, so it's just
still images.
Speaker 3: There's there's nothing going on.
Speaker 5: So you know, I've noticed, like some of these YouTubers,
if I can get a little talk and toaster avatar
and just slap that up on the screen, you know,
get something going on in the background, that that may
help my my views on YouTube a little bit. But
in any case, I want to Avenge have some guests on.
I don't have the logistics for it yet, but there's
there's so many great shows out there with incredible guests,
and I just.
Speaker 3: I couldn't bring anything new to the table.
Speaker 5: So I was like, well, let me just approach it
with with a shepherd's heart, you know, as a pastor,
is like, how can I approach this from a pastoral perspective.
I'm going to tell the story because I'm a communicator,
but then I want to open it up a little bit.
How can we understand it? Can we understand it? Does
it fit within a biblical worldview? What can I accept?
What should I be hesitant about accepting with with if
I want to keep a biblical worldview? So so yeah,
I wanted to be different now that again, the talking
fish on the WI Files is what helped inspire some
of the characters that I've brought to the show. Because
I don't have guests, sometimes it can get really boring
listening to the same voice for an hour and a half, right,
And so I brought in at an antagonistic character. I
brought in, you know, a quote unquote conspiracy theorist character.
You know, one of those guys, you know, that uncle
that everybody's got that believes everything that's out there. You know.
Speaker 3: And although the longer time.
Speaker 5: Goes, the more we're all realizing that we owe our
conspiracy theorist friend and apology because yeah, the stuff that
they've been right about, right, But just introducing a cast
of characters that allowed me to approach some of these
ideas from different angles and just have fun doing it.
I loved animation growing up and was like man that'd
be so cool to be a voice actor.
Speaker 3: One day.
Speaker 5: Obviously that never happened, but it's like one day I
was like thinking about it for my show, and I
was like, well, heck, if it's my show, if people
think it's stupid, i'll stop and if they like it,
if it's fun, I'll keep it going. So now everyone's
trying to get me on TikTok and start doing tiktoks
with the characters and stuff, and I hate TikTok.
Speaker 3: I really don't want to, but I'm told if I
want the show to grow, i have to, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, no, no, yeah, which I remember, like I said
a couple of years ago. I think it was Bo Kennedy.
I can't remember if we said that on the air
or if I said that pre roll.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Bo Kennedy, Yeah turned me on to you. He had
shared one of your episodes. I think it was on
Facebook and he was like, hey, check out his brother
in Christ. He's got a really great show, and I
clicked on it and I listened to one or two.
But what I do remember was walking away thinking I
was like, well, man, that's pretty heavily produced. Because I
remember there was all because most podcasts, I mean, are
you know some of them ain't gonna say most will
have like the little teaser at the front with a
little bit of music, you know, maybe a little sound
effect here or there or something like that. But I remember,
if I remember right, listening to yours, it was like
there was music, you know, almost throughout. There was like
when you got to a point where there was a
bang or a smack, there was a sound effect. I
mean it was really dynamic. And I was like, man,
he spent a lot of time producing this show. I
can respect that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's how I wanted to stand out.
Speaker 5: Now some have criticized it a little bit, and and
I accept the criticism because there's U And the criticism
goes something like, you're trying to do radio and we
live in the TV generation, and really the TV generation
is dead now. We're now we're in the social media
and YouTube generation. More people watch YouTube and streaming services
than they do actual TV. But but but I understand
the sentiment is because it's a purely audio format, that
that it's it. It's been attacked as antiquated slightly, and
and I received the criticism. But what I tell people
is like when I'm when I'm listening to stuff on YouTube,
I'm listening. I don't watch YouTube. I'll put a video
on that they're talking about something I want to want
to hit listen to, and and then I'm I'm doing
a dozen other things while I'm doing that. So I
can't remember the last time I actually sat down to
visibly watch.
Speaker 3: A YouTube video.
Speaker 5: I'm just listening to the conversations that are being had.
Same thing with a podcast, so I was when I
first got started, I was like, I don't have the
resources or the know how to do video, so I'm
gonna stick with what I know.
Speaker 3: I have a music background.
Speaker 5: I used to record my own music and produce music,
so I was like, well, well can I use the
same software and effects and things on a podcast. And
as I started playing around with that, I was like, well,
it's totally feasible, so let's let's do it, you know.
And and it started very quickly to be very well received,
and I think Bow was he was a game changer
man for the show. Love him to death. He had
just given the show a shout out on his program
and on the Bump, and they gave me a bump
A lot a lot of people came over from the
Bump and I just hit him up. I was like, man,
thank you so much because because he helped also inspire
the show in its development phase, because of his experiences
with Lilith and those episodes that he did talking about
that topic. Because as I was prepping the show, I
had some negative experiences spiritually as well, and they really resonated.
So I had given him a shout out. Eventually, he
gets told about the show from one of my listeners
and he checks it out, he loves it, gives it
a shout out, and a few months later he gave
me the opportunity to go on a show when we
had a great, great conversation then too. So, yeah, you're
another person that tells me yeah, bo, let me know
you exist. Some of him bow up after this and
say both I owe you another thank you.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, it was awesome. I had discovered him and
right around the time I first started podcasting, and he
was one of the first guest appearances that I ever
had that I went on. And I'm trying to think,
I think I think I told him my Lilith encounter
at first when I first went on his show, I
had a like a sleep paralysis event with her and
talked about it, and then I went back again and
it was funny. I had just discovered the Book of
Jasher and stumbled across Esau battling Nemrod and the supernatural
garments from the Garden of God to Jewish you know,
legends and mythology, and I was like, man, this is crazy.
This is cool. And then I started seeing it the
actual sixty six book canon to these garments, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, there's something to this. So then I
kind of searched it out and I found just that
little narrative there, and I pitched it to Bo and
I was like, Hey, what do you think about, you know,
Esau battling the mighty King Nimrod for some supernatural garments
and stuff. He's like, that sounds pretty bad ass. Let's
talk about it. So I went on his show and
he's like, what do you want to call it the show?
I'm like, I don't know, man. He's like, I'd call
it the Epic of Esau, and I was like, that
sounds pretty bad ass. Let's just go with that then.
So I'd done that show and a few months later, man,
I started to write in my first book, so but
Bo was a big catalyst for me as well.
Speaker 5: That's so, that's so cool he Like I said, I
definitely going to reach out to him later because I
know that'll encourage him to know that. You know, sometimes
we do this and we wonder what kind of impact
we're having, and I'm sure a little encourage him to
let him know he's had a positive impact on a.
Speaker 3: Lot of people.
Speaker 5: Will and I wonder at times, because this is a
one man I'll and a lot goes into the production,
even though there's no video that all that audio stuff
takes takes a long time. There's a financial investment, and
the time investment is four times that, and you wonder,
you know, is this making any any difference?
Speaker 3: You know, and.
Speaker 5: Love every once in a while get getting that feedback
from folks you know that have plasfire or helped or
you know, been challenged to think about something a little
bit different and or just one of the best things
is making them excited about their Bible.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and that's something to you I can identify with.
You know, it's like, h since you start creating content,
you know, I catch myself watching a video or something
and I just keep scrolling and I'm like, I watched
that for a good two or three minutes. None ever
did hit that like but let me scroll back, give
them that like button, because did they stop my scroll?
They had my attention for a while. I know how
much work and time goes into that. I'm going through
all my like so, I mean that is our currency, man,
you know, like you said, breathing life into people appreciation.
So that's a good segue for me. It's like, guys,
we've got thirty five people in here and seven likes.
Come on, now, don't be a jacket ass there. You
hit that like button, show some love and don't collet
you nothing. But it helps people like us tremendously. They don't.
I don't think they realize. I think they would because
I mean, it's crazy every show, it doesn't matter. The
ratio is so off. It's like I'll have, you know,
fifty to one hundred people in the chat and have
ten likes. I'm like, come on, guys, please, yeah, help
brother out.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: A lot of folks don't understand how beholding we are
to these these algorithms and holding people's attention and things like,
it can be hard to get your show notice because
there is an oversaturation. I mean there's a lot of
folks trying to do it since twenty twenty, especially when
the pandemic had everyone behind closed doors. Everybody in their
mama was, you know, trying to start a podcast, you
know about all kinds of stuff. You know.
Speaker 3: I'm guilty of that too.
Speaker 5: I mean it's it sent me insular, had me doing
a lot of reading, a lot of studying and stuff
and wondering.
Speaker 3: You know, could I do this?
Speaker 5: And if I did, would I just be shouting out
into the void or would somebody actually hear me?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: And so I've been able to have the privilege to
go go on you know, at least a dozen shows
or more.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, well, somebody's noticing, you know, so let's
and And I've been having a lot of fun, still
still doing it.
Speaker 5: Got the support of the Lord of my wife, and
I keep meeting cool people along the way, so we
keep keep the toaster dancing.
Speaker 1: So mm hmmm, Well, man, you had mentioned Lelis, is
that something that you've been uh studying on or looking into.
What's some of the content that you've been focusing on
here recently, maybe we dive into.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So when the first when the show first started off,
the first two episodes, you know I did, I did
the nephelin stuff. I because that standard, you know, that's
that's kind of like the Rosetta stone of all this.
So I did an episode on the giants. I the
second episode was was the return? How do they show
up post?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: Talking about that?
Speaker 5: And then episode three I got into female demonic entities
and the potential for them. And then episode four is
when I when I hit the Lili topic. My first
like six episodes were heavily produced, heavily planned out, like
I knew like, Okay, this is where I want to start,
where it goes from this, Well, well we'll.
Speaker 3: See, right.
Speaker 5: But but episode three and four, in the pre prayer
and preparation and planning of those episodes, had some really
crazy experiences and hadn't anything, hadn't had anything like them before.
But what initially lit the question was everyone talks about
you know, the benega Eloheem, the sons of God that
laid with the daughters of men, and you know, you
get the nephiline, and I wondered, well, what the heck
happened to the women? Like the Bible's quiet on them afterwards?
So I was like, well, has anyone ever wondered what
happened to them?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 5: Lo and behold, you know readne knock and stuff, and boom,
there it is. You know, they are talked about there
that they underwent a curse and a transformation. They're called
sas or sirens, the Greek sirens. And so I was like, oh,
you know, so I did a whole who kind of
deep dive on sirens and female demonic entities going around
the world and saying, you know, look at this account,
this account, this account, this account. There you see all
these threads that connect. And again we're not accepting that
all of them are like you said, gospel, they're not
all factual. But how come they have the same foundation,
you know that they're this this cursed woman and this
transformation that takes place. And I did see a word
in the chat that I use a lot in that episode,
succubus or succuby the plural. So the old school traditional
kind of view is, you know, all the you got
your angels and your demons and and and so you
got the good angels you got the bad angels and
and that that's all you have, and they're all masculine
and anything outside of that is just androgyny.
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, but but is that true.
Speaker 5: That's that's not the historical view necessarily, And so got
into the female demon topic and.
Speaker 4: The man.
Speaker 5: The episode on Lilith was a heavy one too, because
there's so much bad information on her. And I'm still
on the fence as to whether or not she's a
solo entity or you know, I believe in a class
of entity that fall into her category. I believe she's
just one of many. Does she have a role of
leadership in there? There is hierarchy in the kingdom of
darkness if Asian six makes that very clear. And so
there's this really strange lady that's mentioned around Genesis not
Ama is mentioned in there, and she gets mentioned in
other Jewish mystic texts and things like that in connection
to the Genesis six event. And so kind of the
thinking developed that these women that participated with the Benegro
him the sons of God, that they were cursed, they
were transformed, those those sons of God. Eno says, they
get locked away. Peter calls it Tartarus. Jude says, they're
they're they're confined until a day of judgment. These women
are cursed and transformed, and I think, man, I think
there's a lot of validity to that story. And I
think that while they're cursed, they are causing, causing habit
for for a lot of folks. And I believe it's
very sexualized as well. A lot of the trouble that
they cause, whether it's sleep paralysis or something a little
more interactive.
Speaker 3: I believe that they are.
Speaker 1: At that's in Ghostbusters. There's a sucky buss and Ghostbusters.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes there is.
Speaker 5: And I was even had a caring get real mad
at me too, because it's saying that you're making all
this stuff up because you've been watching too much Ghostbusters.
I said, oh you you naive, little little duckling.
Speaker 3: But it's fine. I'm I've had to develop thick skin
with the show.
Speaker 1: I got a sound in that one. I got a
soundbot for that one.
Speaker 3: Do you need a lot of paint chips when you
were a kid? Yeah? Oh man, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, exactly that though, and everyone, man, I
get attacked for the Ghostbuster stuff, but I'm not going
to shy away from it. Show's already got a name,
and I love it too much anyway, and it is
all you know, Dan Ackroyd was really into all that stuff.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I've tried to get him on The show Man.
Of course I'm nobody. I can't get a response from him,
Like I'd love to just peak his brain on all
his occult studies and what kind of experiences he's had.
I enjoyed listening to him that not that I agree
with him, but I enjoyed listening to him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he went Joe Rogans through yep. Yeah, that Joe
Rogan episode was was was fascinating.
Speaker 5: Like I said, I don't agree with his conclusions, but
the journey and his openness the journey, I mean this
goes back to his father, his grandfather, great grandfather. I
mean that they got a family legacy of talking about
these things and considering them, and they've crossed lines. I
would never crossed as a Christian as a pastor, because
the Bible forbids it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, they get involved.
Speaker 5: You know, they were big on seances up there in
Canada and they'd have people out. I mean they even
had like a live in medium at one point the
Akroyd family, you know, so they were big on trying
to commune with the other side. So when he sat
down to write that script, I mean it was it
was a passion project, not just to tell the good story,
but to kind of shine light on some of these ideas.
And I remember it was it my thirtieth episode or something. No,
maybe it was the fiftieth episode. I can't remember the number,
but it was one of the big round numbers. I
was like, I want to do a Ghostbuster theme episode
and talk about, you know, some of the stuff behind
the film and what inspired some of the themes of
the film. And so I want I'm due for another one.
I want to do another one because Ghostbusters two has
some fascinating stuff with Vigo the Carpathian and whatnot.
Speaker 3: And so see when that pops up.
Speaker 1: What is will be?
Speaker 3: What is will be?
Speaker 1: No more? Nothing new is under the sun?
Speaker 3: Solomon, Yes, exactly, exactly and man lonely, can somebody get again?
Bankman is my boy, That's my favorite. That's my favorite
Ghostbuster always, always will be.
Speaker 5: And when he's doing the photo shoot with Vego, oh
Vigo baby, Yes, yes.
Speaker 1: I got some Ghostbuster sound clips to back off, man,
I'm a scientist.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 5: I had a shirt that said that too. I warn't
too much though, and I just I just ruined it.
But I had a shirt that said back off, I'm
a scientist that bill murray on it.
Speaker 1: And uh and one thing too, like far as like
the female angels or demons. You know, that's get some
people tore up. But one of the verses that even
come out of Jesus's mouth made me kind of at
least really stop, you know what I mean, and dwell
on it was. And a lot of people that want
to go against the giants will use this same verse.
But it's where Jesus tells them, you know, oh, in heaven,
angels are not given unto marriage, you know. So and
they're like, oh, well, there you go that he said
they're not given them the marriage, so therefore they didn't
come down. Well, no, the angels didn't have fun.
Speaker 3: They want to have fun exactly.
Speaker 1: But I'm like for him to say that there has
to be female progeny that they could marry, or that's
a very point pointless statement to make that that that
is a good because we know he doesn't you know,
condone homosexuality, right right.
Speaker 3: It does say I made the argument the first part
that you mentioned.
Speaker 5: I made that argument in my Nepheline episode that that
that verse doesn't negate the possibility.
Speaker 3: Uh, it just says the good ones wouldn't. You know,
the good ones wouldn't.
Speaker 5: But I never entertained the thought that he's suggesting the
existence of of of female ones, at least not from
that make that argument from that particular passage. One of
the biggest counterpoints to that is that all of the
language in the Bible when angels are discussed specifically, is
masculine language. But that's that's not a deal breaker. It's
just it was just an observation that I made along
the way. So I was like, well, if in fact
they are male, if you will, then where do we
get all these these female demonic entities? And I'm I'm
I'm of course of the frame of thought that all
all fallen angels are demonic, not all demons are fallen angels.
And that's jack that from Heiser as well to kind
of sum up. I believe the most of the demonic
activity that we see going on in the world, and
a lot of it that we see, especially in the Gospels.
I don't believe that fallen angels were what were popping
inside of people, taking control of them and demonizing them.
I believe that ontologically that those particular demonized individuals, it
was the disembodied spirit of the deceased Nephileine. And again
I didn't come up with that idea. Was that was
the idea that was held for a long time before
we came in and just slapped tradition on everything and
oversimplified everything as well. But for the longest time, people
envisioned quote unquote demons as we understand them to be
the disembodied spirits of the dead Nephileine. And it would
then make sense that they would want to take possession
of someone because they had a body. Now they don't,
so they want to be bodied. And even that the
scene with Legion in the Gospels where you know, he's
pleading with Jesus, you know, well, if you're gonna send
me out of this guy, at least send me over
there into those pigs, you know, so they want I
thought it was fascinating that they can. It appears that
they can also embody animals, which is fascinating when you
think about the implications of that, but the fact that
they desperately want to be bodied. If you're the super
oop powerful fallen angel, what the heck do you need
a frail, chubby flesh frame.
Speaker 3: For You don't.
Speaker 5: But if you had a body and it was a
mighty body, because we know they were the mighty ones
of old, you're gonna want another one, you know, and
so they try and take possession of ours. So yeah, again,
all fallen angels are demonic. I don't think all demons
ontologically or are fallen angel some of them. But I
don't like the oversimplification. I don't like we've used terms
to the point to where they don't mean anything. We've
done it with angels and demons when there's a whole
plethora of spiritual beings. Yes there's a good side and
a bad side, but it's far more complex than we've
made it. And the same is true of heaven and hell,
that these these are complex ideas. There are times where
the word hell get gets thrown around, like especially in
like the King James and stuff, when it's like, well, no,
there's a better word that was used there because the
place of the dead wasn't just hell, and that's a
whole other you know, conversation as well. So yeah, I
don't like the oversimplification when there's a reason Greek and
Hebrew had a plethora of terms for for these realities.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And uh, I want to throw this up too. Has
made a chat saying, you know that Lilith is not
in scripture. She is, it's just it's not in your English.
When you go to the original Hebrew language ship Isaiah
thirty four, the screech owl that that's Lilith.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and there's plenty of terminology and Hebrew available that
they could have put if they wanted owl.
Speaker 1: But they had a name for an owl, you know,
I mean that was better.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And another thing you have it, you have it, and
all the Mesopotamian stuff, the King's list, Lililu is mentioned there. Uh,
the Anunaki, the their creation story, like like a lot
of the Gnostics and stuff they talk about inky uh
breeds with Lilith to to make Cain. Like I said,
I'm not saying thus saith the Lord here, but this
is the mytho and the thoughts of the people of
this time. Doesn't make it factual, but it's written.
Speaker 5: You know, yeah, and that was that was a major
kind of you know, journey through the mind and through
the text, because it is there in the Bible.
Speaker 3: Her name does show up.
Speaker 5: So you know, when I saw that in the original language,
I was like, okay, so why on earth would would
a prophet of Israel be using this particular term. And
you again, you can't go to the fifteenth century, You
can't go to this even the first century. You got
to go eight hundred years even before that to try
and find out, you know, what did Isaiah mean when
you use that word? And then when you start looking
at the other terms around it, you start realizing when
you're not reading it in a safe English translation, that
sounds like something ripped from National Geographic You know what.
Speaker 3: Once you find that.
Speaker 5: Lilith is mentioned there, and then you have goat demons
that are mentioned there, and you have all these howling
creatures that are mentioned there, it's like, no, we've oversanitized
it because of naturalism. We we have forced it to
sound far more tame than it was ever intended to.
And if if we want to know, like if that's
how it was being thought of, then you go to
the subtuagen. The subtuagent is what Jesus and the Apostles
would have had available to them the Greek translation of
the Old Testament, right, and when they got to that passage.
It's fascinating because when the translators are the subtu agent
got to Isaiah thirty four, to the word, you know,
for for Lilith, they put on a cantorus donkey centaur.
Speaker 3: Wait what yeah.
Speaker 1: That wow? Some of them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so here we're that's a hybrid being. Though, so
here we have this unnatural being. So even when they
were thinking about this term in antiquity prior to the
first century, they're they're taking it. These were men that
were experts in Hebrew and in Greek, and so when
they were dealing with this word, they didn't put screechel. No,
they put on a cantorus. They put donkey centaur. And
why would they choose that word? Why would they choose
that word? It's it's really, you know, it's us later
on that try to force everything to be something simple,
something natural. And it's as we the Enlightenment trying to
force the supernatural out of the Bible. Christians being too
heavily influenced by the enlightenment wanting to erase the supernatural
from the Bible, and Isaiah thirty four is one of
the ones that pays the highest price because here, here
is a region that is being judged by God, and
after this judgment he speaks of all these these supernatural
being swarming this area afterwards, after it's been exposed to
his severe judgment. And when you accept that premise though,
it does offer a lot of explanatory power when you're
investigating all the other things that I like to talk
about on the show and things like that, and so
back to Little specifically, you know, when you're trying to,
you know, look at the etymology of that and why
Isaiah would have used it and what he would have
meant by it. You know, you had mentioned Lalitu, there's
the Leelu and the Lilitu, that one was male, one
was female. But then you get into medieval times, what
did we do there? Sucubis incubus, right, So we've always
been trying to Demonology has always been fascinating within religious circles,
trying to understand the other side, and we have oversimplified
the other side to where most Western Christians only they
think angel, they think demon and for some that's good
enough and that's all they want to know, the good side,
the bad side. But I think when we do that,
we greatly limit what we're willing to entertain. And the
Bible doesn't do that. The Bible doesn't limit the supernatural world.
But it also doesn't explain itself. It expects you to
do a little bit of work and a little bit
of digging. And it's the study of the history around
it where we get the context. And everyone says context matters,
and until the context is uncomfortable, when you're like, oh, could.
Speaker 3: He have meant that? Well, what did it mean in
his time? Not yours?
Speaker 5: And Isaiah thirty four is a big one that it's like, no,
it wasn't a scene from National Geographic folks.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, hypocrisy goes only so far. I had to
pull out Doc Holliday. My hypocrisy only goes so far.
That's something that always bothered me. It was like face value.
A Christian, you know, we professed that we believe that,
you know, God came in the flesh as man, you know,
died beorfore he died, He healed blind, he healed the lame,
and all these miracles, turned water into wine, and all
this stuff went to the cross, died, went into a
shield and took the keys of death after three days
and resurrected, you know, and it's going to come back.
And it's like, that's so far from the naturalistic my
said that you can get. But then when we start
having conversations like this, oh no, there is no other
entities other There is no other gods, even though the
Bible and God himself calls them gods. That's all hallguash
and know that stuff's real. You know, are the people
from the occult that try to come out and go
to church and start, you know, telling their experiences or
ask their questions. Oh that's not real. That stuff's hollywood.
Or authors make crap up to sell books.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, come on, guys, you can sound like total
freaking hipocreates when you act like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: That was one of har Heiser's greatest arguments was the
fact that we believe some pretty out there things, like
we need to own it. We believe some really out
there things because well they're in the Bible.
Speaker 3: Do you believe the Bible? Yes or no?
Speaker 5: And if you do, well, the Bible's a supernatural book
full of supernatural accounts. And I think it's fascinating how
much we want to force it into naturalism, that we
want to naturalize everything and come up with explanations for
everything or limit what is possible, when the Bible doesn't
do that. And again, the Bible Heiser used to say,
I'm not going to protect you from your Bible. You
know that he would just and even what was aspersion says,
you know, he's just going to open it up and
let the lion out. He's not going to apologize for
what's in it. There's some stuff in there that's wild,
and it's heavily supernatural.
Speaker 3: Go read the Gospel of Mark. Jesus was encountering demons
left and right.
Speaker 5: If you read that, you know, and and when you
look at the experiences that he's having, and then you
look at the mundane experience that so many Christians are
having in the twenty first century, I want to be like, well,
where's the disconnect? Because if you go through the you
read the Book of Mark, and then you read the
Book of Acts, you're seeing a war going on for
the souls of men. You know, so you know, our
biggest weapon is the proclamation of the Gospel. Let me
be clear, you know, I don't necessarily think we need
to be conducting exorcisms left and right, but at the
same time to pretend as though now it's like only
the Roman Catholics are the only ones still talking about exorcisms,
or it's either them, or it's the hyper Pentecostals that
blame a demon on everything, no offense to anybody that's
Pentecostal and just saying Pentecostal background, and you know, you
you fall into the trap of blaming a demon for everything,
which I think is dangerous. But then the other, the
other extreme is is saying that well, nothing, nothing is
is a demon and nothing supernatural, and there's an explanation
for everything, and we limit our availability to be there
for people in a minister to people that have had
some really crazy experiences, and we're incredibly dismissive. We're so dismissive,
and we.
Speaker 1: Lived pompous, you know, like we got it all figured out,
we're so smart. Now it's like, yeah, you're never going
to learn nothing because you're unteachable. That's why I said,
you know, the children is what's going to inherit the
kingdom because that childlike wander And you know what I mean,
it's the most supernatural book in the world, and it's
esoteric in nature. I mean, I fight people tooth and
nail on that, because Jesus even tells you it is
out of his own mouth. He taught in parables, okay.
Speaker 3: And then even he kept hiding your aid.
Speaker 1: Yes, And then when he went back to his disciples,
they're like, oh, you said this and said this. You know,
what is the meaning of this teacher? You know, why
do you talking all these parables?
Speaker 3: He said?
Speaker 1: And what does he say? Because the mysteries have not
been revealed to them, he said, But they have been
revealed to you. But still you ask me, Rabbi Rapi.
You know, Psalms tells us it's the glory of God
to conceal a thing, but it's the glory of kings
to search things out, so we have to do. I
love how Mike Hauser said, read this like it's a
fictional novel. And I know a lot of Karens and
Pharisees got their underwearing a bunch when he said that.
But I loved it because his explanation behind it. He says,
read this like it's a fictional story, he said, like
you're reading a Harry Potter book. Yet you know you're
you're you're disavowing and throwing away all of your reasoning,
all your logic, all the things that you've been taught.
You're just going to read it for what it is
and accept it as it is at face value. He said,
that's the only way you're going to receive the message
that the authors were trying to give you. And I
was like, might drop. You know, couldn't have said it
better myself. And that has helped me so much in
my studies and reading. And like you said, the more
I study, the more I realize how stupid I am
and how much more I need to learn. But because
of my mindset and doctor Michael Heiser's teachings, I may,
you know, receive just a little bit more understanding than
the average bear. But I'm still and never will be
an expert on this supernatural, esoteric book. But luckily for us,
Salvation was made so simple that a child he could
understand it because it was meant that was meant to
be straightforward. Because that's the important part.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, for sure, And and that's that's the entryway
that that that's the entryway. And and you're right, you know,
he oftentimes would would would deal in mysteries, you know,
even Deuteronomy.
Speaker 3: The secret things, you know, belong to the Lord.
Speaker 5: There are some things that that he plays close to
the chest, and there are other things, like he said,
the glory of kings to discover a matter. And but
I think humility is a major key too to going through.
And uh, I've met so many that I would have
looked up to before, so sure of themselves, you know,
and and they fled, they fled comment sections and chats
because they're so sure that they're right and everyone else
is wrong. And they're they're real bold about it, that
everyone is wrong with me. And I say, well, enjoy
yourself on that island. It's a real lonely place to
be the smartest man in the world.
Speaker 3: I'm not him. I'm not him, And I'm gonna humbly
approach the word of God.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna humbly listen to to my brothers that that
are that that have lived a different life, that have
approached the book from different angles than I have. And
I do know that there is an objective meaning to
scripture as well, like there there is a part like
you know, this means something concrete, but that there are
additional things around it, the type you know, like there's typology,
there's typology, Like so there's you know, Noah. I believe
Noah was an actual event, but there was a typology,
a symbology that was being established because Christ is then
compared to Noah, you know what I like. So so
now we're going on to the arc of Christ. So
I'm not literally climbing up inside of Jesus like this.
So there is symbology that's heavily used in the Bible.
The Bible does use allegory at times. There are things
that it's like, Okay, there is a literal understanding to this.
There is a real event that took place, but a
lot of it there there is allegorical layers on top
of it that point to greater realities and beautiful things
for for those that dig a little further, that spent
a little bit more and more more time with the text.
Some want to swim in the deep end, and some
are okay with the shallow end, but the deep end
is uncomfortable, and sometimes it feels like the wavepool you
know at Schliverband. I don't know if they still that
schultervand but.
Speaker 1: It's like the Righteous Gemstones in China doing that the
mass baptism in the wavepool and somebody flips the switch.
That show is blasphemally amazing. I mean a lot of
people get uptight and like, oh, they're attacking our faith.
I'm like, no, I mean they are, but they're they're
attacking that the Joel Olsteins and these prosperity gospel preachers. Yeah,
I'm showing you that's how these people are.
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, I think we we we at times take
ourselves too serious. I'm a huge nerd. I mean you
can see, like I even teach on Sunday very informal.
You know, uh we're you know, wear my T shirt
or whatever. That's you know, Calvin Chapels are typical, more
laid back anyway. But I tell people I take the
text serious. I don't take myself too serious, you know.
So Jesus said, come as these little ones, you know.
So it's like I'm a big kid. I'm excited when
I'm walking with the Lord. I'm excited being being led
by the Lord. I'm excited finding things in the Bible.
I mean, I'm still finding things that I just taught
something from Tewo Samuel the other day on a Sunday,
and I'd read that passage one hundred times, taught through
it three or four and was like, oh my gosh,
there's details here that I never noticed before, you know,
And so yeah, the hebrew says, the word is living
in active. That doesn't make sense for a book that's
a normal book. The Bible lets you know, it's not
a normal book. And if it's not normal, if it's
not natural, then what does that make it? It makes
it supernatural. And Hebrews says it's a live and active
There ain't no other book out there like it. And
even when you look at other religious texts, the Bible
is unique among other religious texts because it has prophecy
in them. We assume those that aren't familiar with other
religious texts assume that other religious texts are just like
the Bible.
Speaker 3: I eat the Koran.
Speaker 5: They think, well, the Koran, that's the Muslim Bible, and
it's like, well, but that's a very oversimplified view of
the Koran. One of the things that it lacks as
much as it talks about Muhammad's life and his teachings
and a law.
Speaker 3: It doesn't have a lot of prophecy in it.
Speaker 5: If any, there's nothing where he makes a prediction and
then you can look through the corridor of time and
space and find a fulfillment of said prediction. The Bible
makes all kinds of predictions, and lo and behold, they
all unfold exactly how the prophet said that they would.
And nowhere is this more evident than Messiah himself than Jesus.
There are hundreds of prophecies that were foretold. Now, Isaiah
fifty three is one of my favorite places that, Oh,
you'd think Isaiah was standing up the feet of the cross.
He's seven hundred a little over seven hundred, almost eight
hundred years before Jesus of Nazareth walks the earth and
is crucified outside of Jerusalem, but you'd think he was there.
I mean, don't tell me it's a natural book, that
that's supernatural. God gave Isaiah supernatural revelation to let everyone know,
this is how you're gonna know when I send my son.
This is how you're gonna know when I send my
anointed one into the world.
Speaker 3: And you know that it is.
Speaker 5: It's also able to be proven false, like if Messiah
did not fulfill these things, then we should be looking
for another.
Speaker 3: We should be looking for another. But I think of
was it Philip and Nathaniel? What is it Nathaniel that
meets him first and then goes to Philip.
Speaker 5: Or is it vice versa. I'm having a brain fart
right now. But Ron Stemmen says, the one we've been
looking for is here. And I love that, you know,
because it reminds us that, yes, that they were waiting
for a Messiah, and that there are hundreds of prophecies
that were going to point to him and Jesus fulfilled them.
And it's fascinating when you look at Messianic prophecy. One
last thought, because I know I can be long winded,
but Isaiah fifty three is one of my favorite passages
in the Old Testament as far as Messianic prophecy goes.
I just saw a second guy, messianic Jew going around
to other Jews and reading from Isaiah fifty three without
giving any any context at all, and so he reads
it to him and then he says, what do you
think this is about? He's like, oh, you must be
one of those Christians. And that's about your Jesus guy. Look,
with all due respect, I don't believe in your Jesus guy,
but thanks anyway. He goes, Oh, it's so funny you
say that. Did you say you think this talk is
talking about Jesus? And he goes, isn't it?
Speaker 3: He goes, Man, this is our guy. This is Isaiah.
Speaker 5: This is seven hundred years before Jesus was even here.
And you concluded by hearing these words that it must
have been talking about him?
Speaker 3: What made you think that?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: And he got really that.
Speaker 5: You could see the guy start squirming because they're not
supposed to supposed to entertain JC as they call him.
They don't even like saying his name. But it's just fascinating.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 5: I love that passage, and I love that the Bible
is such a miraculous book.
Speaker 1: Mm yeah, man, well, bro, I ain't gonna keep you.
I usually try to keep these around an hour, but
definitely enjoyed this conversation. And the main thing that I
really love about this, And if you haven't picked up already,
if you're watching this, there was no game plan. I
just kind of knew that we were in the same circle.
So I made a thumbnail with you know, with giants
and some of the cool stuff that we like to
talk about in this space, and I was like, we'll
just see where this goes. This was a really good,
you know, just biblical, biblically rooted conversation about our book
and our faith and some of the stranger things. I
really really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: This was just a.
Speaker 1: Campfire conversation that just kind of rolled out here for everybody. Man,
So I really enjoyed it. Thank you, man, No, I
did too.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 5: And as you mentioned at the start, you know, hopefully
this is one of many times I get to hang
out with you.
Speaker 3: This was a great time. I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm definitely going to have you back. If
you'll come back, we'll next time. We'll actually pick us
a hyper focused discussion and I'll put your storytelling skills
to the test.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 5: Oh, I love it.
Speaker 1: Well, man, Before we go, just let everybody know where
can they find your podcast, websites, any thing you want
to plug. How can they find you and contribute to
your work? My man?
Speaker 5: Thank you well at the Dancing Toaster on all the socials.
It's just the Dancing Toaster podcast. Like I said, it's
a Ghostbuster reference. I'm on Apple, I'm on Spotify, I'm
on YouTube. The YouTube normally the episodes released a day
or two later because I got to turn it into
a video with stills and stuff. But yeah, I'm everywhere
podcasts can be found right now. And oh I got
to merch the dancingoasterstore dot printful dot. If you want
to get some get some fun merged. I'm wearing one
of my Dancing Toaster drip right here, hanging out little
mascot in front of the Haunted House. Got hoodies that
got the logo on them, hats, cups, bags, all kinds
of fun stuff on there. If you want to rep
the show, and if you want to support the work
I'm doing, I got a Patreon.
Speaker 3: You can head over to Patreon. Dancing Coaster real easy
to find as well.
Speaker 5: Five bucks a month if you want add free listening,
and I'm going to have some exclusive content hopefully by
the end of the month coming out. My patrons have
been they're called my toasties. They've been incredibly patient with me,
trying to get some exclusives, but if you get early
access and ad free listening over there too. So thank
you again for letting me craft the party. Had a
great time.
Speaker 1: I had a malfunction there, but thank you guys for
tuning in and hanging out with us. And we definitely
appreciate you chat out to the chat. Appreciate you guys
coming in and conversating with us. Man, love you guys.
Be sure to come check us out Sunday at eight
pm Easter Standard time. We'll be doing a live reading
of Lewis Ginsburg Legends of the Jews and on Friday
mornings at nine am at the Prometheus Report every Friday
nine and get your weekly headlines and as me and
Andrew dive through uh what lies beneath the headline, So
be sure to check those live shows out every Friday
morning and Sunday night. Well, guys, I love you, and
just remember the difference between the known and the unknown.
That is the journey. So good journey, my friends. So
we steal the fire
Speaker 2: To wares Sell frozen by the lies passed around and
they content brosday can they con