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Speaker 1: This is Nick Redfern and you're listening to Unknown Origins Radio.

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Speaker 2: We live in a world filled with the unknown.

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Speaker 3: You can't handle the truth.

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Speaker 1: I'm as glad as hell.

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Speaker 4: I'm not gonna take this anymore.

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Speaker 1: We will not go quietly into the night.

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Speaker 5: We will not vanish without a fight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Unkown orgin Freedia.

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Speaker 1: And good evening everybody. Welcome to another edition of Unknown

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Origins Radio here on the Dark Matter Radio Network. I'm

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your host, Mark Johnson, and unfortunately, once again, our co

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host Bruce Pearson. He's really caught up on an assignment

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right now, so he can't join us for this evening.

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He sends his regards, so Bruce, we will definitely catch

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you next week. In the meantime, once again, I'm very

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pleased to welcome back our very own executive producer here

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on Unknown Origins Radio, and my co director along with

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me of Glanet Tie Media and Publishing, missus, Irene Alan Block.

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Are you tonight, Irene?

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Speaker 6: I'm fine, Mark, how are you?

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Speaker 1: It's going on one o'clock in the morning. There isn't

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it it is, So I'm going to keep you up

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till almost till the edge of dawn.

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Speaker 4: While we do tonight's show.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just if I hear any snoring in the background,

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I'll just you know, I'll just tap the mic to

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signal you to wake back up. Yeah, you do that. Okay, Now,

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got a great show tonight. Got very excited to introduce

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our guests. And before we get to that, I do

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have a couple of our usual announcements. So once again

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coming up in just wow, only a month away. Now,

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we have Phenomenology one oh seven. It's going to be

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uh this year in York, Pennsylvania. And for those of

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you who may not have heard about Phenomenology before, it

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is one of the largest paranormal conferences and events on

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the West coast, East coast, I'll edit that out on

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the East coast, and traditionally they've been in Gettysburg every year.

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This year there they've just a few miles away over

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in York, Pennsylvania, and there's they as usual. They have

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a whole lot of great guests, lots of people involved

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with the paranormal. You have Bill Bean is going to

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be there this year, Chris Fleming, paranormal cop, Stacy Jones,

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Dave Giuliano from The ghost Hunter Store, Extreme Haunting, survivors

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Steven la Chance, Carmen Reid from the Haunting in Connecticut House.

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You have Deborah and Tony Pickman from the Sallyse Haunting,

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keep Thrams from the Deep South Paranormal, and Travis Walton

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from the Famous Fire in the Sky UFOK. So a

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lot of great people are going to be at this

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event now again, it's going to be June eighteenth through

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the twenty first in New York, Pennsylvania. And be sure

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you can get your tickets on their website at Phenom

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Events dot com. That's Phenom P H E n O

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M Events dot com. Now, I do have to make

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an announcement. Normally I go to Phenom. I'm there. I've

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been there every year for the last three years, have

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a great time, really enjoy it. But you know, things

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have kind of changed this year. I've got a lot

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going on, so unfortunately I won't be at Phenomenology this year.

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So for those fans of the show who want to

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who are hoping to come by and meet us, sorry,

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you know, we'll try to make it next year, but

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for at this point in time, we just got a

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lot going on. But hey, don't let that starck A

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lot of great people are going to be there.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: They even have Andrea Perone from She was part of

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the family that they made the movie The Conjuring and

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Chris Quarantino, best known as Christopher Lutz, one of the

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original Amityville horror Children, will also be there again. So

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many people are going to be at this event. You

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don't want to miss it, so again June eighteenth, the

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twenty first at and go do Phenom events dot com

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for more information and tickets. Have a great time, everybody,

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because I'm going to miss it this year. So on

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that note, I think we're gonna get right into our

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show tonight. We have a great guest. We're very excited

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to have him on, and I'm also excited to the

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fact that we're the first to have him on, because

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you're going to be hearing a lot of this gentleman

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coming up in the next few months, and we're really

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excited and proud to be associated with him. He is

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a fifth generation Texas the US Marine Corps veteran. He's

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also forty two year member of MENSA and is a

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retired former owner and principal of a regional Texas investment firm.

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He's was the former Texas State Director from Moufon for

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over ten years, and he is also the founder and

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president of Epic Extraordinary Phenomenon Investigations Council, which continues to

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investigate the UFO phenomenon down there in Texas. He's got

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a brand new book that is coming out next week

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on May twenty seventh and called Mark Slade Investigates the

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Stevenville UFO. So we want to welcome Ken Cherry to

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the program tonight. How are you tonight, Ken?

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Speaker 2: Great, Hi, Irene him Mark, I'm glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you well, Ken, Well, thank you for coming on.

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So you know, I think I just really gave a

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brief snippet of your biography for the listening audience, But

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I was wondering if you can go in a little

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bit more detail to let our audience know just who

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you are and what brought you into this field, and

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then we'll get into discussing your book.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, that is a long story. I first was

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exposed to this question of the UFOs and eats as

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a youngster about eight years old. I actually had a

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UFO signing of my own that really at that age

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I didn't quite understand. I knew it was something significant,

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but anyway, it made a lasting impression upon me. I

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don't know if you want me to go into that

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right now, but over the years I just seemed to

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sort of gravitate toward the subject, and a number of

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people who really have played a key role in my

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life ended up making some pretty astounding revelations to me

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about the true nature of the UFO program and ETS

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and our experience with them, and I at one point,

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you know, when you're a young person, you're married, you

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have children, and you have obligations. You tend to put

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those things away, except you know what relates to family

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and family time. And so it wasn't until later in life,

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when I was owned my own business that I had

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some free time and funds to pursue my interest and

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passion in life. And that was really did investigate the

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UFO phenomenon, and I became involved with MUFFAN. We had

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at one point here in the state of Texas, an

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organization that I had built basically from the ground up.

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When I took over as state director with about twenty

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twenty five active members to over one hundred and fifty,

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we had forty one investigators. I believe throughout the state

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at one time. So we actually had the largest state

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organization within mouf On, which was the oldest and largest

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organization for the scientific study of UFOs in existence at

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that time. So I had a lot of reports coming

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in from all over the state over a long period

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of time, and I just was fortunate enough to be

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the state director when the two thousand and eight well,

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let's see Stephenville event took place. I guess some people

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have in mind that it was a one off event

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where a couple of folks reported this huge, amazing UFO,

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but actually it was a wave of UFOs that visited

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the area there for many months.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. This book is based on

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this series of events that took place in two thousand

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and eight in Stephenville, Texas. Was it only within this

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town or was it also the surrounding area?

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Speaker 2: No, it was within the surrounding area. We have approximately

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two hundred and forty counties in the state of Texas,

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and about December of two thousand seven, we started to

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notice a big uptick and reported sidings in and around

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Erath County, I mean unusually so, so we were already

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alerted to the fact that there was some sort of

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increased activity around the area, but it was really about

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a four county area that we were receiving reports from

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on an unusual level, you know. So it was with

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the breaking of the story by the paper there in

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Stephenville that you know that it first went public, I

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suppose you would say, but we were already involved in

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looking into the many sighting reports that had come in

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from other sources.

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Speaker 1: Now at that time, you said you were the state

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director for Moufon during these whole events. That's right, okay,

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So when Mofon when you went into this area, were

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you sent in by by Moufon itself or did you

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make the decision You got those reports and you decided

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to investigate it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that was my call, although headquarters took an immediate

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interest in it because the high level of reports that

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were coming in through their case management system, and it

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alerted a lot of people were alerted by that fact.

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So actually I was called on the morning of the

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tenth I believe it was of January two thousand and

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eight by an AP reporter, Angela Brown, who had asked

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me about my feelings about the paper. The story that

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had appeared in the Steamville Empire Tribune, and I told

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her that we were already planning to send investigators to

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the area and that yes, there had been quite a

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number of reports, so, you know, I verified pretty much

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what she wanted to know. And really it was Angela's

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story from my interview that went out on the AP

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wires that took the story worldwide. And from that it

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was just utter chaos. But once the news articles appeared

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in the papers in and around Texas, my phone just

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ring continuously. It's almost impossible to convey what had what happened.

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It was just an amazing thing. I could barely put

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the phone down without ringing again. And from reporters and

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news stations all over the world, you know, wanting to

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know what had happened. So the AP story going out

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on the wires is really what It generated so much interest.

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But it also gave a personal point of contact for

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people who wanted someone to talk to about what they

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had seen, because of course, not everybody was familiar with

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moufon or the case management system where they could go

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online and a place of report. I think I stopped

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counting a hunt. Well, I think I did stop counting

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it at about one hundred and fifty calls folks who

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told me they had an experience, saw something that sort

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of thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, there have been a lot of UFO waves

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of sightings in the country, and you know, I remember

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back in the early eighties here in the Northeast they

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had the Hudson Valley UFO flap where sightings were seen

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for almost a couple of years. Now, the Stephenville event.

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How long did that event last in general or are

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they still having sightings today?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've left to move on from for five years now,

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so I'm not aware, and I don't keep up with

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their sighting reports their case management system, but I do

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know that we continue to get a high level of

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reports throughout two thousand and eight and again in two

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thousand and nine. Unknown to most people, there was a

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large cluster of reportings of reported sightings in October that

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year of two thousand and eight, and we did our

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best to keep the keep it out of the news

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because it turned into such a carnival atmosphere in the

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January instance, that we wanted to keep it out of

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the media as much as possible. But we did obtain

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a radar study of the area that for that for

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the evening in question in October of that year and

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found an even higher correlation between the witness reports and

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the object on the radar than we had even in

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the January siding. So I think we had something like

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an eighty seven percent correlation between witnesses saying, you know,

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I saw this craft. They would describe it and they

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you know, in such and such location, and then we

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would confirm that on the radar study that there was

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a craft. It wasn't you know, it didn't it wasn't responding,

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and you know it was at the time that the

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witness had reported it, and so on. So it was

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the witnesses were it proved to be highly reliable in

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reporting the facts. You know.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's let's talk about what they were seeing. I've

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heard of them called the Stephenville lights, of course, the

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Stephenville UFOs. But were people actually were they seeing just

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lights in the sky or were they actually seeing craft

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with definition?

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Speaker 2: They were seeing two different types of UFOs. Frankly, there

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was one craft was dubbed by the press and many

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of the witnesses as a type of mothership. Of course

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we did not use that description, but that is the

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way that a lot of people did describe it. They

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would say this had to be some sort of a

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mothership because it was so huge, and we had a

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bear in mind. Stephenville is a small community. I think

241
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the population there's about thirty thousand folks, and of course

242
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it's a farming community. Their main activity is dairy farming,

243
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and even though there is a college there, we really

244
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received very few witness reports from young people. For the

245
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most part, the gathering was gray haired folks. I mean,

246
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,919
you know, they were fifties, forty five, fifty and up,

247
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:55,200
you know, seventy eighty, and so these are not your

248
00:16:55,679 --> 00:17:01,000
regular late night sci fi you know consumer Uh. These

249
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are folks who typically you know, keep farmers ours country

250
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folks hours. They go to bed at early recently, you know,

251
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relatively early, and get up very early, do their chores

252
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around their dairy farms. And most people have other jobs.

253
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You know that they had a day job, if you will.

254
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So these are very down to earth people. But one

255
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,119
thing that we found that there were a lot of

256
00:17:25,279 --> 00:17:30,079
very educated professional folks. Perhaps they'd gone off and the military,

257
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,440
served their country, or they had a career doing something

258
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and they came back that's where they were from. That's

259
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where their roots were, and they would return there and

260
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into this life of you know, raisen cows or chickens

261
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,759
or whatever. So these are these are not city folks,

262
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:53,799
let's put it that way. But they were very down

263
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:57,559
to earth. So, you know, these are the type of

264
00:17:57,599 --> 00:18:02,240
witnesses that we had primarily very credible, and I didn't

265
00:18:02,279 --> 00:18:08,400
find any of them to be you know, they were

266
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,559
just very matter of fact. They just would say, here's

267
00:18:10,599 --> 00:18:13,480
what I saw. I wanted to you know, they were curious.

268
00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:15,839
I want to know what it was. But anyway, back

269
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:22,200
to your question. Consistently people described as craft as being

270
00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:25,359
bigger than a battleship and this one person said, you know,

271
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,200
I was on a battleship and aircraft carrier or other things.

272
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I know how big they are. This thing was huge.

273
00:18:32,319 --> 00:18:35,000
I mean it was several times that size. I think

274
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,920
one witness said that it was a mile long and

275
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,720
a half and a quarter mile wide or something, and

276
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:47,440
another described it as being much bigger than a super Walmart.

277
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,960
I was on NBC's Dateline and they had the top

278
00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:00,160
ten UFO cases that they were highlighting. I believe they

279
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,440
they ranked Stephenville as number three. But at any rate,

280
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,240
when I mentioned, you know, one of the witnesses had

281
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,759
said the thing was bigger than a super Walmart. Of

282
00:19:09,799 --> 00:19:12,559
course they had to have little graphic in the background

283
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:15,839
showing a Walmart, you know, with thrustbusters shooting up off

284
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,960
the ground to make you know, to make it comical.

285
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:21,960
But these people were doing the best they could to

286
00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:25,200
describe how big it was, and that was the images

287
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,759
that they used to convey.

288
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,519
Speaker 1: That our media to add the snicker factor to.

289
00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:35,799
Speaker 2: The snicker factor. Yeah, yeah, that's what That's what was

290
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:41,599
amazing about the whole affair initially was that the people,

291
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:47,319
the witnesses were the sober ones. The witnesses were you know,

292
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:52,240
the down to earth, matter of fact and no nonsense individuals.

293
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:56,640
It was the media and the outside factor the forces.

294
00:19:57,079 --> 00:20:00,200
When we had a big meeting of the Witnes this

295
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,039
is in the area, there were people who traveled from

296
00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:06,039
Austin and from Dallas, I mean from all over the

297
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:09,079
state to this little town where we had held a

298
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,000
meeting that were tenfoil hats, and they dressed up their

299
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,720
dogs like little aliens, and I mean they just it

300
00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:21,119
was almost like they're making fun of these simple townfolk,

301
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,279
or they're trying to make light of this entire question,

302
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,039
where frankly it was quite serious. I mean, this was

303
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,920
quite an event that occurred, and yet I think for them,

304
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,880
for a large part, the media made it into a

305
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,279
tabloid type of story. And you know, one thing I

306
00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:52,440
could get off on is that it was almost like disinformation,

307
00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:56,440
a way to hide the importance of what had happened,

308
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,079
there by making it seem like a bunch of nonsense.

309
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 1: I was going to make a comment on that, because

310
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,519
when these the crazies come in from the outside, you know,

311
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,440
my gut reaction these days, and I've gotten really cynical

312
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,119
in my old age, is the fact that you know,

313
00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:19,400
are these crazies really the crazies coming in going oh well, yeah,

314
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,079
aliens have got my tanfoil hat on? Or are they

315
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:28,599
being planted there to purposely diminish the event, make it

316
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,279
seem like a circus, to make people just dismiss it

317
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:33,160
out of hand and go on with their lives.

318
00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,279
Speaker 2: Well, for example, and I don't want to get off

319
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,000
to this too far, but it's it's been proven that

320
00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:43,720
there are people who've been busted in from the outside

321
00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:47,400
into some of these riots that have occurred recently, and

322
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:53,400
as several major incidents, and you know they are there

323
00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:57,880
to you know, to make I started to use the

324
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,920
word in cindiary, which is unfortunate as it usually ends

325
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,319
up in stores burning. But yes, I do think that

326
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,599
they're professionals who you know, that's their job is partly

327
00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:13,000
is to if you can't hide it, if the story

328
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:18,559
is too big, then you know, let's discredit it. But anyway,

329
00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:21,920
back to your question, So that was the that was

330
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:27,119
the main that was the the enormous craft that was cited.

331
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,039
And I might say we had quite a few law

332
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:36,079
enforcement officers that witnessed this thing, and as you might imagine,

333
00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:39,799
some of them were reluctant to make to go public

334
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:45,119
or to give us to go on the record with

335
00:22:45,319 --> 00:22:48,640
mouf On in other words, give us a written report.

336
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,039
So we did take their statements and we were you know,

337
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:54,799
you have to listen when you have a trained observer there.

338
00:22:54,839 --> 00:23:03,319
But one incident that occurred that really, you know, sticks

339
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:06,640
in my mind is that there were three law enforcement

340
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,000
officers will call them, but let's I'll make clear of

341
00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:13,359
the fact that there were police officers, sheriff deputies and

342
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:19,039
a constable who all witnessed. You know, these crafts. But

343
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,720
these three particular law enforcement officers were out on patrol

344
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:28,880
in different areas of the of the of the county,

345
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:37,680
and when they returned to the station, they began to

346
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,119
speak to one another and found out, oh my god,

347
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,000
all three of us saw the same thing, and we're

348
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,119
in different parts of the county. And so they drew.

349
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:55,240
They collaborated with the I guess an architectural or drafts program,

350
00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:58,880
and made a drawing of this UFO that they saw

351
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,960
and it was, you know, they all agreed on it

352
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,759
and it was huge, and I have it somewhere. I

353
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:10,839
could you know, provide it later. But they they made

354
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,720
that those you know, the different views of at the

355
00:24:13,759 --> 00:24:18,480
top to side, whatever each one of them saw. So

356
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,079
one of the officers had his radar on, you know,

357
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,799
he was at a I won't call it a speed trap,

358
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,480
but he was monitoring for speeders. So he had his

359
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:36,039
radar active and he looked up and he said, everything

360
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,079
just went quiet, and so he looked up. He was

361
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,160
scanning around. He looked up and there's this enormous craft

362
00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:48,880
just hovering above him, and he's he was just awestruck.

363
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,240
So he was sitting in his car. He didn't get out,

364
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,559
but he held the gun up, you know, in the

365
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,279
direction of his craft, and he said the first tick

366
00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:02,440
on it was like, I forget, I think it was

367
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,680
seventeen miles an hour, and then the next one, in

368
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,480
a blink of an eye, was it was gone. So

369
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,720
you know, if you heard that story from one policeman,

370
00:25:13,759 --> 00:25:15,880
you'd say, you know, the guy who was dozing or

371
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:19,200
tippling or something. You know, there's some you know, he

372
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:22,880
was just mistaken. But you have three separate police officers,

373
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:29,079
three different places who did not, you know, and then

374
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,160
they all agree that that's what they saw. So anyway,

375
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,599
that was probably the height of the of the sighting.

376
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,160
I mean, you don't get any better than that. I mean,

377
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,079
once you have multiple sightings of the same craft by

378
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,039
numbers of people in different places, you know, in a

379
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:55,000
short period of time, you have a very very significant event. Now,

380
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:57,960
the next type of craft that was seen where these

381
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:05,839
orbs brilliantly bright lights. One gentleman described the light as

382
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,200
as intense as a welding torch. Now, these were variously

383
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:18,119
described as gold, blue, white, yellow, so that case you

384
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,160
would say they were like ornaments on a Christmas tree.

385
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,240
They came to different colors, but they never said that

386
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,920
there were different colors together. They just said, you know,

387
00:26:28,319 --> 00:26:34,359
but they were seen in sort of formation and and

388
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:41,079
or together and then dividing into three different or if

389
00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:46,480
you get my meaning. So these were dubbed by the

390
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:48,680
media and by some of the witnesses, you know, as

391
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,640
sort of the scouts from the mother ship or something.

392
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:57,480
So well, you know, those are the two main types

393
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,319
of sidings we had.

394
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: Okay, definitely interesting craft. Irene, I think you had a comment.

395
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, Ken, Is it correct that eight months later it

396
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,240
appeared over top of a football stadium.

397
00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: Uh, Actually, that story has gotten twisted around a little bit.

398
00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:21,240
It was a baseball diamond. The uh it was a

399
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,960
sand lot baseball Uh a lot, and there were a

400
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,680
group of people on the bleacher watching, you know, the

401
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,359
neighborhood kids, you know, playing the uh baseball, and the

402
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:42,359
craft appeared in Uh. There were you know, so there

403
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,039
were a good many witnesses. I mean it stopped the game.

404
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,400
Everybody stopped and looked at it. So yeah, that's it.

405
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,480
That was Sorry.

406
00:27:50,519 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 6: Were you able to interview any of those witnesses?

407
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,599
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I mean we got some of their statements.

408
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,440
There's a whole long story that goes with that particular case,

409
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,480
that there were a series of sightings by various people

410
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:11,599
at that time. As I mentioned in October, there were

411
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,279
more verified sightings then than in January, but by then

412
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:20,880
there were complications within my own organization that kind of

413
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,640
put a stranglehold on some of our efforts. And so

414
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:28,720
without going into all of that, I'll just say there

415
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,960
was video of it that was a grainy I guess,

416
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,440
you know, the typical bouncy, grainy light thing that someone

417
00:28:39,519 --> 00:28:42,799
was able to capture on their phone that was given

418
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:48,079
to a local TV station and so, you know, out

419
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,640
of a group of people that was it. There were

420
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,880
two girls, I think at two young ladies who had

421
00:28:54,920 --> 00:29:00,319
taken this video, and we were told that one point

422
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:03,559
to back off, that they were going to bring in

423
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:11,960
this super duper special Star Team investigator and move on.

424
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:18,960
When I said, I'm saying me and my team were

425
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,799
told to back off on it, and you know, I

426
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,640
objected vocally. I'm not any sort of wilting flower, so

427
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,559
I you know, but I agreed in this particular case

428
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:34,839
to or So the state director is supposed to agree

429
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,440
to allow a Star Team investigator who's supposed to be

430
00:29:39,519 --> 00:29:42,960
among the elite to come into his state, and so

431
00:29:43,119 --> 00:29:47,000
I reluctantly agreed because I thought, you know, we've been

432
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,720
handling this now for ten months and we've done a

433
00:29:50,759 --> 00:29:54,200
fine job, so whatever, what do we need this Anyway,

434
00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:57,519
it was completely bungled by the Star team. We lined

435
00:29:57,599 --> 00:30:01,720
up three different witnesses with video, and he was unable

436
00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:04,079
to convince any of them to give them the video.

437
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,640
I guess, you know, but that's I really don't want

438
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,599
to get off too far into those weeds. That's a

439
00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:12,640
whole nother story.

440
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: Well, I know, in general, moof On has had a

441
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:21,200
lot of controversy surrounding it over the years. A lot

442
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,079
of people look to move On as being, you know,

443
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:28,079
one of the the cutting edge pure scientific research groups,

444
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,519
very reliable and trustworthy, and yet there's a lot of

445
00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:35,119
people who who don't trust Moufon anymore. That there's a

446
00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:37,680
lot of claims against it that it may have been

447
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:44,200
infiltrated and it may actually be used for to spread disinformation.

448
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,359
So you know, I know you were part of Muffon

449
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,480
there for a while and then you left the organization.

450
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:58,720
I what are your thoughts on something like that? Okay?

451
00:30:58,720 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 4: Did I just like really.

452
00:31:04,359 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: You know, my I guess a lot of my thoughts

453
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,440
are in my book Mark uh. You know, I give

454
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:18,240
an example of a very well known uh UFO investigation

455
00:31:18,359 --> 00:31:24,000
group that was completely and utterly uh you know, infiltrated

456
00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:31,000
by alphabet types. And you know, my hero in the

457
00:31:31,079 --> 00:31:36,400
in the story, Mark Slade, was a UH was a

458
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:42,319
Texas State uh director for his organization called AQUA. And

459
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,000
all I can say is that, you know, after he

460
00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:48,920
had served faithfully for years, that Mark found, you know,

461
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,240
he was being thwarted in his efforts for this major

462
00:31:52,839 --> 00:32:00,440
UFO uh uh story or incident that occurred, and thwarted

463
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,079
by his organization. And what he found with in trying

464
00:32:04,079 --> 00:32:09,240
to determine why is that first of all, his his

465
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,200
his organization was established shortly after Blue Book was closed,

466
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:18,279
and that there were a large influx of people. One

467
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:22,119
of the founders of the AQUA his brother was a

468
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:28,960
CIA agent, and that over the years the board was

469
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:35,119
made up of various alphabet type folks, I mean military intelligence,

470
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,680
and that their their primary consultants were CIA or an

471
00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:44,759
NSA and d O D and FBI and you know,

472
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:50,000
all these sort of things. So you know, he in

473
00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:56,200
his case, he thought this cannot be coincidence. I mean,

474
00:32:56,319 --> 00:33:00,440
there's so it looked like for all the world an

475
00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:04,880
effort really to let's let's uh, let's expose the minor

476
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,720
cases and hide the what would be considered national security.

477
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,880
And you know that's the main purpose, just as in

478
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,119
Blue Book. Uh, all of the top cases of Blue

479
00:33:18,119 --> 00:33:24,039
Book were mark national security. And even though they told

480
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:27,160
the public that they were making them available in the

481
00:33:27,319 --> 00:33:33,519
archives there, they were not. They were not. So you know,

482
00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:36,160
that's that's all I can say, is I can you know,

483
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:43,000
I go into some other actual, real life examples of

484
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,200
you know, other organizations as well that were infiltrated. So

485
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,200
I guess that's one of the main points I want

486
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,240
to get across to people is before you before you

487
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:55,799
dedicate yourself, your loyalty, your time, your effort, your energy

488
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,680
into a cause that you think is worthy, that you

489
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:03,000
really really need to do some investigation. I mean, when

490
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,039
you're putting your own self on the line for fourteen

491
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,880
sixteen years in my case, that's a meaningful contribution. Not

492
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,280
to mention financially, what I put into developing an organization.

493
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:20,800
I got it as an aside. I'll tell you this,

494
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,719
you know, I was a registered and investment advisor and

495
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:31,239
an investment professional for over thirty four years, almost thirty

496
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:38,360
five years, and I kept my activities into investigating UFOs,

497
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:44,000
you know, separated from my business life because you know,

498
00:34:44,039 --> 00:34:48,280
I had I had, I had millionaires, you know, people

499
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,400
who are the pillars of the community and you know,

500
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,239
giants of industry. Ye'd like to think, you know, some

501
00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:00,159
important people as clients that they spill their guts to

502
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:03,840
me about their personal lives, their finances and everything. And

503
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,639
I didn't. I thought that it was unwise for me

504
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,760
to let them know, you know, here's they might question

505
00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:14,760
whether they should have their trust in me, you know,

506
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,599
as in my activities as an investigator of UFOs. So

507
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,599
when the Stevenville case occurred in two thousand and eight

508
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:28,760
and I was in the papers constantly, I was amazed

509
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,760
at the reaction of some of the clients that I

510
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,119
had concerned myself about. The most would call up. Yeah,

511
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:41,400
you know, they were really kind of congratulatory. They thought

512
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,239
that I was just a very conservative number cruncher, you

513
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,679
know that was always serious. They just really delighted in

514
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,760
the fact that you know, here here, I'd led this

515
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,960
double life. So I guess perhaps I worried about it

516
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,039
too long, or maybe it had been long late enough

517
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:01,199
in my career that people that I dealt with knew

518
00:36:01,199 --> 00:36:03,639
me well enough to know, you know, I was still

519
00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:08,440
to be trusted with their money. But at least early

520
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,760
on when I began with Moufon, it could have had

521
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,360
a significant impact of my career, and it was. It

522
00:36:15,519 --> 00:36:18,239
meant a lot to me. But you know, I'll just

523
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:24,920
give an example for our listeners. Many charitable organizations, well

524
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:29,159
you know, they're they're well sink of time and money,

525
00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:34,119
and you think you're doing something to help deprive children

526
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,679
or disaster the victims or something, and then when you

527
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,639
dig deeply into the organization, you find that they spend

528
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,880
ninety percent of every dollar they bring in. You know,

529
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:48,000
very little gets to the people that you think that

530
00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:51,440
you're helping. So, you know, it's just that's just a

531
00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:53,880
life lesson that.

532
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:55,559
Speaker 5: You know.

533
00:36:56,599 --> 00:37:01,079
Speaker 2: Once I determined that I was not really serving the

534
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,519
cause that I thought I was serving, I decided it

535
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:06,519
was better to move on and let me.

536
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:09,039
Speaker 1: Ask let me, let me ask you a question about that, Ken,

537
00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:12,400
Because you did devote fourteen years to this organization.

538
00:37:13,159 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: Was it only.

539
00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: Until that that period of time when you finally parted ways,

540
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:21,559
that you really started to feel like that, you know,

541
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:24,000
they were no longer serving you know, the interest that

542
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:27,159
you you had signed up for, or were you seeing

543
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,719
warning signs over a period of time.

544
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: Actually, the decision to leave did not was not the

545
00:37:38,679 --> 00:37:44,639
the the road the roadblocks and complications that occurred with

546
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:47,960
the two thousand and eight investigation were not the They

547
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,440
weren't the culminating factor my decision to leave. There were

548
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:57,679
things that happened in the next year that really solidified

549
00:37:58,599 --> 00:38:02,079
my decision that you know, it was time to part ways,

550
00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:07,159
and that that was their their announced intention to partner

551
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:13,519
with bass uh, the Bigelow Aeronautic folks, and that when

552
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:18,519
I started digging, I found really there there were they're

553
00:38:18,639 --> 00:38:23,480
just well as just a very deep well and uh

554
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:25,639
and we'd have to devote another program to it. And

555
00:38:25,639 --> 00:38:27,960
I don't know that I really want to get into that.

556
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: But we're not We're not here.

557
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, mister Bigelow is you know, it's it's known or

558
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,039
rumored that he has he is a front for the

559
00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:43,320
c i A. And you know, just the idea that

560
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,679
he was going to pay a move on for cases

561
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:53,239
that his people alone would study or that as an

562
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,119
elect elite group of movef on people were going to

563
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,159
investigate and he may or may not turn over or

564
00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:04,679
the results or evidence or artifacts or whatever. Really just

565
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,199
drove home the point that you know, I was just

566
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:08,079
in the wrong place.

567
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,119
Speaker 1: Well, he certainly didn't do that with the Skinwalker ranch investigation.

568
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,480
He held on to that like uh, like I don't know,

569
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:21,400
he just you know, not to change the subject for

570
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,840
another case. But it just shows, you know, when it

571
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,360
when a private entrepreneur like that goes into a case,

572
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,519
he's not beholden to anybody and can hold onto the

573
00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:31,320
information to do with it what he wants. The Skinwalker case,

574
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,519
they've owned that ranch for years and you only hear

575
00:39:34,559 --> 00:39:37,960
trickles from people who work there, and and the and

576
00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:40,519
the investigations that George knap din on what really went

577
00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:42,800
on there. But let me let me change the subject

578
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,000
back a little bit more steers back towards, you know,

579
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:49,039
with the Stephenville case. And it seemed to me that

580
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:53,039
there was that period of time the uh anywhere from

581
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,679
the mid two thousands, mid to later two thousands where

582
00:39:56,679 --> 00:40:02,800
we had several big UFO flag apps or cases, you know,

583
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:06,480
especially around in the American Southwest. You had you know,

584
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:11,199
the Phoenix lights in the early two thousands. Uh, and

585
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,000
you know they I've heard that they just recently reappeared

586
00:40:14,039 --> 00:40:17,320
again too, and people saw them again. You had Marfa,

587
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,480
Texas and Aurora, Texas. Is this the first time that

588
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:26,920
there was any type of activity reported around the Stephenville vicinity.

589
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:35,679
Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting question because we a bit more

590
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,840
about some of the people who called me, the witnesses

591
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:45,679
that came forward. I had probably the first time this happened.

592
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:51,280
I had an elderly couple on the line and they said,

593
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,719
you know, they were calling because they had read the

594
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:58,679
newspaper and that, you know, they wanted to know if

595
00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:01,559
I was the man who is investigative student. Oh, yes,

596
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,280
And they said, well, we live in the countryside there

597
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,559
in Erath County, and we've lived there. These people were

598
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,000
about eighty years old and they've lived there most of

599
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:17,159
their lives and they had a small farm there. And

600
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:23,519
they said, about thirty years ago, Uh, we we had

601
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,599
we were coming back one evening from our weekly run

602
00:41:28,639 --> 00:41:33,880
into town for supplies and the movie whatever, and they

603
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,760
said that the country road naturally didn't have lighting or

604
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,719
anything on it. Back in those days, it were just

605
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,920
these are dark country roads, uh colleche or you know,

606
00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:51,639
dirt whatever. And they said the the entrance to their

607
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,559
place was lined along the road with these tall trees,

608
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,800
and then there's an opening for the driveway and as

609
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,119
they turned into the driveway, there is this glowing orb

610
00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:07,039
just above the height of the car right there at

611
00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:13,199
the at the at the driveway entrance. And he said,

612
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,760
we were just absolutely stunned. But if we had the

613
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,519
strangest feeling, we didn't know, you know, if this thing

614
00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:23,679
was trying to communicate with us, if there was some

615
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:29,440
intelligent you know, someone intelligent that was directing this thing

616
00:42:29,559 --> 00:42:33,599
or what. But he said, we sat there for a moment,

617
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,000
and he said, next thing we knew, it shot down

618
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:41,360
the driveway to our house about a quarter a mile

619
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,639
away and just hovered over the house. And you know,

620
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,639
we began driving that way again. And as it hovered

621
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:54,719
for a minute, and then it shot off at a

622
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,800
right angle from the direction that had been going over

623
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,880
to another distant tree line, and then when they got

624
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,480
through the tree line, shot straight up in the air. Now,

625
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:10,000
these are people, you know, about eighty years old. And

626
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:16,079
they said, We were afraid to tell anybody because you know,

627
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:18,159
they would have laughed at us. Everybody tell them, I

628
00:43:18,159 --> 00:43:20,920
thought We're nuts, So we kept it to ourselfs And

629
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,840
you know, I had many many such stories, the people

630
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,480
coming forward to tell me that they had been seeing

631
00:43:28,559 --> 00:43:33,639
things there for years and they kept it themselves. And

632
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:40,400
only now when the media and everybody in town was

633
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,880
talking about it and it seemed like they would just

634
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,440
be one of one of many voices, did they have

635
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:51,639
the courage to come forward. And I had another instance,

636
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:55,639
I'll tell you had a lady called me and said

637
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,639
she was the elderly. Obviously, she said, my husband is uh,

638
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,559
he's dying of cancer and he wants to see you

639
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,760
before he dies. He was a scientist with Luckey. And

640
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,519
I went, uh, where are you all come to see you?

641
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:16,559
And she says, no, he's a proud man. He wants

642
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,000
he wants to come see you. And I said, okay,

643
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:23,920
you know, so we set up a meeting place and

644
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,719
I'm sitting there and uh, this elderly gentleman who's bent over.

645
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,079
He is walking with a cane and he has a younger,

646
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:36,360
younger man, you know, in his late fifties. It turns

647
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,360
out as his son in law or something like that.

648
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,880
His son said in law helping him along. And he

649
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,960
had a brief He was caring a briefcase the old

650
00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:49,039
old gentleman. At any rate, they lived there, he lived

651
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:52,079
there with the old scientist, lived there with his wife

652
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:56,480
in Nereth County. And he opened this case and had

653
00:44:56,559 --> 00:45:00,280
all these drawings of Oh it was his son, that's right,

654
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:06,519
that's right. Anyway, had these drawings that were so precise

655
00:45:06,679 --> 00:45:12,679
with angles, and I mean this this incident that occurred,

656
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,960
he said, when his son was a boy. The three

657
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:20,960
he and his wife and his son were in the

658
00:45:21,039 --> 00:45:25,039
car the round in the lonely road, and this UFO

659
00:45:25,199 --> 00:45:28,239
came down right in front of his car and just

660
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,719
hovered there in front of them, and they just stopped.

661
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,800
They were terrified. But anyway, with this engineer's mind that

662
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,519
he had, he captured, you know, every last detail of

663
00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:42,920
it and gave me a picture of it. I mean

664
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,320
it was just you know, like a blueprint or something.

665
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,159
He had the you know, the size of it, you know,

666
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,239
relative to how big it was to the moon and

667
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,800
this and that and everything. And he said, I will

668
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,480
tell you something. I worked on black buds or programs.

669
00:45:57,639 --> 00:46:00,880
It was not ours, he said, but I could not

670
00:46:01,039 --> 00:46:04,239
report it because I would have lost all my clearances

671
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:09,280
and never been able to work again. And you know,

672
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,760
we we talked for a bit longer, and he said,

673
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,639
I never saw it again. His son, you know, confirmed it,

674
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,880
the wife confirmed it, and so you know, this was

675
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,079
a story. I don't know how long it went back,

676
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:29,039
but uh the uh, I guess the oldest report we found.

677
00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:36,760
I knew Joyce Murphy who had an organization called Beyond Boundaries,

678
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,280
and so when we went to Dublin, I met her

679
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,800
son who lived there in Dublin, was on the city council.

680
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:47,639
His name was Mark Murphy, and he got to know him.

681
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,519
We reminisced about you know, i'd seen him when he

682
00:46:49,559 --> 00:46:50,920
was a younger man and so forth and so on,

683
00:46:51,519 --> 00:46:56,440
and he was he had witnessed this UFO and he

684
00:46:57,639 --> 00:47:01,679
sent me later and at that he found in their

685
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,840
little hesitate to call it a library, but a type

686
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:11,800
of library where they had it was a microfish of

687
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:17,239
an old calendar. I guess back in the early nineteen hundreds.

688
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,159
You know they used paper, they don't, they didn't they

689
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:25,119
fully used it like you know, not like today, it's

690
00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:27,679
just you just toss it away if you make a mistake.

691
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,880
But any rate, on this calendar, they had, you know,

692
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,119
stories about the weatherness and that and everything. But there

693
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:36,199
was an account of and it quoted the newspaper that

694
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,039
it had been originally in Dublin. It was in I

695
00:47:39,079 --> 00:47:41,920
believe it was eighteen ninety six, but it was an

696
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,000
account by a number of the townspeople there in Dublin

697
00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:49,639
had witnessed what they said appeared like a burning bale

698
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,719
of hay. Now, if you think about somebody in eighteen

699
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,280
ninety six, they've never seen anything flying back in those days.

700
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,360
You know, back in Dublin, Texas, it's only about three

701
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,119
thousand people now, so you know, it's just a few

702
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:09,239
hundred back then, I suppose. But anyway, sound like a

703
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,679
perfect description of this glowing orb type of thing. However,

704
00:48:14,599 --> 00:48:18,920
they said that it crashed into some building there and

705
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,280
they did find debris, and in it they found parchment,

706
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,079
strange looking parchment with hieroglyphics on it. They who the

707
00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:29,760
writer said it? You know, they only thing they could

708
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,760
relate to was like Egyptian hieroglyphic. Now, what happened to that?

709
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:40,079
What happened to the debris. You know, it's lost in antiquity,

710
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:48,400
But that, that and some other instances we found indicate

711
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:53,320
that there have been UFO activity in and around there

712
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,320
for a very long time, over one hundred years. And

713
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,559
I don't want to give way anything about my book,

714
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,519
but I asked, if you see bees in an area

715
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,119
over a long period of time, you keep seeing these

716
00:49:13,119 --> 00:49:17,760
honey bees, that tells you something. You know right right?

717
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,119
Speaker 1: You have a question mhm.

718
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 6: What I wanted to know cameas how much attention did

719
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,559
it get in Europe or anywhere else other than America?

720
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: Oh, good deal, I had one.

721
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 6: Was there a lot of attention from US?

722
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 2: I believe?

723
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:42,039
Speaker 3: So.

724
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 6: The sorry is because I've been naughty today and I

725
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,599
did dip into something in the government and saw that

726
00:49:55,599 --> 00:49:58,880
there was a real increase in sightings in two thousand

727
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,440
and eight and two thousand I mean aside a big yeah.

728
00:50:03,519 --> 00:50:06,199
Speaker 2: And you know, I try to I try to explain

729
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,400
that in my book. I'll make a comment here during

730
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,880
the height of that frenzy about the two thousand and

731
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:22,840
eight Stephenville thing. Doctor Greer, Stephen Greer, who's been heading

732
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,719
up the disclosure project. Now for any number of years

733
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:34,079
was interviewed on Coast to coast and UH for another manner,

734
00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:38,239
for not about Stephenville, but it was of such interest

735
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:42,079
that the it wasn't George Norri. It'll come to me

736
00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:45,920
who it was. But anyway, the interviewer said, what do

737
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,320
you think about this, uh, a Stephenville event, And Stephen

738
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,679
Geer thought the moment he said, I believe it's a

739
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:59,079
watershed event. And I personally think that that's one of

740
00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:03,320
the best descriptions of what happened. And for the reasons

741
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,199
that I go into in the book why it was

742
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:13,000
such a monumentally bent and so yes, there was a

743
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:15,679
reason that two thousand and eight was a big year

744
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,840
for UFO signings all over and it seemed to instantly

745
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,000
catch on with the public everywhere. I mean, I had

746
00:51:25,079 --> 00:51:29,239
calls from Australia, from the UK, from Japan. I mean,

747
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,079
we have reporters here day and night, and you know,

748
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:36,079
not to make fun of the Japanese, but I had

749
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:39,000
to go. One of the people called me there the

750
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:42,320
Japanese pep be crazy crazy about UFOs, you know, and

751
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:48,360
you know, but every every I had an inquiry. A

752
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,320
newspaper man asked me that same question. You know, where

753
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,079
were some of the places I'd heard from? And I said, well,

754
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,239
I got an inquiry from a military paper in Afghanistan

755
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:05,760
and this guy said from our guys, and I said, no,

756
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:13,280
the Taliban Times. They got a chuckle from the audience there,

757
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:23,000
you know, he kind of he left his job. Yeah, yeah, No.

758
00:52:23,199 --> 00:52:26,440
It turns out that you know, one of the you know,

759
00:52:26,519 --> 00:52:30,880
there were folks in Afghanistans serving that were from the Stephenville,

760
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,159
Dublin area, and they heard about it and they wanted

761
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:34,760
to know, you know, what's going on. You know, they

762
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,400
want to put it in their little paper there. So uh, yeah,

763
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:43,000
I would say probably just about every place you know

764
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:46,519
had an interest in South America, you name it. So,

765
00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:50,719
I mean how much Obviously it didn't get the kind

766
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:56,360
of press that got here. I was in I don't know,

767
00:52:57,639 --> 00:53:00,800
hundreds of interviews, hundreds. I mean one time I had

768
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,880
three TV vans out front of my house from different networks.

769
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:10,320
So yeah, there was it was just extraordinary interest in it.

770
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:16,719
So and uh, I think that most of the coverage

771
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:23,480
was h balanced, pretty good uh coverage, but uh, some

772
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:31,880
of it I would identify as absolutely as disinformation. Whether

773
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:39,360
it was knowingly or unwittingly. Uh, there were several reporters

774
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,559
I think were actually used. There were dupes to try to, uh,

775
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:46,280
you know, gloss over the whole thing.

776
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: But any rate, we will gloss it over or again

777
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:54,800
do the snicker factor and diminish it. And I see

778
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:59,199
that so often. I mean there's some legitimate even still today,

779
00:53:59,199 --> 00:54:05,039
there's a lot of fairly legitimate and UFO activity that

780
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:07,280
people catch and it's broadcast on the news. And I

781
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,519
say UFO in the truest sense of the word. There's

782
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:14,199
something in the sky. You cannot identify it. And yet

783
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,920
the news media, instead of treating it that way, saying, Okay,

784
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,639
we don't know what this is, they always have to

785
00:54:20,679 --> 00:54:24,159
start playing the X Files music and you know, kind

786
00:54:24,159 --> 00:54:26,960
of giving each other smirks and you know, winks to

787
00:54:27,039 --> 00:54:30,679
the camera that and they don't take it seriously, and

788
00:54:31,079 --> 00:54:37,239
it just continues to diminish the phenomenon to the rest

789
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,199
of the public, who maybe have not made up their

790
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,480
mind or they would have been more open to hearing

791
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:44,199
and debating a very serious subject. I mean, let's face it,

792
00:54:44,679 --> 00:54:48,800
the idea that this planet may be visited by other

793
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,199
beings who are not human we're regardless of where they're from,

794
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:56,639
from another planet, another dimension, who knows, is earth shattering,

795
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,239
and yet we get away, it gets away with sting

796
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,360
into the shadows because the media, especially and our government

797
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,880
government denial and media, you know, snickering at it and

798
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,159
not taking it seriously, and so that makes the rest

799
00:55:10,199 --> 00:55:11,519
of the public not take it seriously.

800
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 2: Right well, there is absolutely censorship, at least on the

801
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:23,119
three major networks. A good friend of mine said that

802
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:30,880
he worked in the newsroom of a well known national

803
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:37,480
reporter years ago that any there were two types of

804
00:55:37,519 --> 00:55:39,679
stories that if they came in over the wires, that

805
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:44,119
they had to run by their censorship department. One was

806
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,480
terrorist axe and the other was UFO stories. And he said,

807
00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:50,760
you know, terrorists, I can understand, because we had to

808
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,079
censor those so that we don't give away critical information

809
00:55:54,119 --> 00:55:57,079
to the terrorists. You know, we don't there's things that

810
00:55:57,199 --> 00:56:00,280
may need to be kept out. So that said, I

811
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,280
could buy that, and he says, usually you know those

812
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,239
who come back and you know, slightly rewritten or whatever.

813
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:09,239
But he said UFO stories never once did I see

814
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:14,639
them get approved, and so ABC, NBCCBS, have you ever

815
00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:18,679
seen a UFO story on there well, the local affiliates

816
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,440
here in the Dallas area, which is a a big

817
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,960
metropolitan area. I don't know where it ranks and statistical

818
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:31,679
marketing areas, but it's in the top ten anyway, probably

819
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,519
seven eight nine million people. I don't know what it is.

820
00:56:35,039 --> 00:56:40,840
The local stations carried it, but nationally I don't know.

821
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,519
So things things have changed a little bit now so

822
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:46,519
that some of the networks will carry it on their

823
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:53,840
local broadcasts. But I know we we were called myself

824
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,960
and other people involve the cases.

825
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,079
Speaker 1: We're gonna I'm gonna poss you right there. I'm sorry

826
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:01,679
to interrupt you. We are coming up on our commercial break,

827
00:57:02,159 --> 00:57:04,480
so we're gonna take a quick break, and when we

828
00:57:04,519 --> 00:57:07,559
come back, we're gonna talk more with Ken Cherry about

829
00:57:07,599 --> 00:57:11,079
his book. His brand new book, Mark Slade investigates the

830
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:14,760
Stephenville UFO. So don't go away, we'll be right back.

831
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,960
After these messages, my.

832
00:57:17,079 --> 00:57:23,360
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833
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834
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835
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apocalyptic environment in our wasteland compounds, surrounded by specialty built

836
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sets vehicles and performers straight out of Mad Max and

837
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other post apocalyptic movies. This is an adult only, fully

838
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costumed event that includes live bands and DJs, Wasteland tribes

839
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such as the Mutant Hunters, Dukes of the Nuke and

840
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841
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842
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843
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844
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845
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:13,559
Speaker 1: What a Day, What a Lovely Day.

846
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Speaker 4: Glenna Taie Publishing is proud to announce the release of

847
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our latest novel, The Demdike Legacy by Barry Durham. Set

848
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849
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reignites a legacy of witchcraft thought to have died out

850
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851
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at Lancaster Castle in sixteen twelve. As the death poll arises,

852
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853
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854
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killer before they are all wiped out. The Denbank Legacy

855
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is a thrilling mystery novel that blends modern detective work

856
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with old world pagan practices. The Dembak Legacy is now

857
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858
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859
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Speaker 3: Can't wait for Halloween to be Scared? Coming this June

860
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to York, Pennsylvania. Phenomenology one o seven, the largest and

861
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most popular paranormal conference on the planet, returns for its

862
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seventh straight year. Come meet some of the top paranormal

863
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researchers and experiencers in the field. Attend lectures by the

864
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real life survivors of some of the most notorious hauntings

865
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,119
in American history that inspired blockbuster movies, such as The

866
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Conjurary Haunting in Connecticut and the Amityville Horle. Phenomenology one

867
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oh seven is coming New York, Pennsylvania, June eighteenth through

868
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the twenty first at the York Holiday Inn and Conference Center.

869
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The tickets are now available at www. Dot Phenom events

870
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dot com. That's Phenom Events dot com.

871
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:01,599
Speaker 2: Call not be Had.

872
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 7: Are you tired of being lighted by the government when

873
01:00:05,519 --> 01:00:08,280
it comes to aircrafts that are flying over the skies.

874
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:13,280
Let's explore the mysteries together. Tune in every Tuesday night

875
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,760
at ten pm Pacific Standard time one am Eastern.

876
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 2: When the project moon Dust was first exposed, the Air

877
01:00:19,519 --> 01:00:21,159
Force explanation is to a.

878
01:00:21,199 --> 01:00:24,159
Speaker 1: United States Senator, was that we never had a project

879
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:25,320
made in the same Moondust.

880
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: Behind the tree was this gigantic, huge glass dome.

881
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 8: Skywatchers Radio, What's up Town, America?

882
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:43,719
Speaker 1: Heavy?

883
01:00:50,199 --> 01:01:18,039
Speaker 9: This the matters the same same.

884
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,079
Speaker 1: And welcome back everyone to Unknown Origins Radio. Here on

885
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:14,559
the Dark Matter Radio Network. I'm Mark Johnson along with

886
01:01:14,639 --> 01:01:18,440
our guest co host Tonight, Irene Allen Block, and we're

887
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,559
talking with our guest author, Ken Sherry about his brand

888
01:01:22,639 --> 01:01:27,559
new book, Mark Slade Investigates the Stevenville UFO. And just

889
01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:29,800
before I went to break, Ken, we were talking a

890
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,159
little bit about the news media and how they handled

891
01:01:32,199 --> 01:01:37,239
these situations. You mentioned that the news media were contacting you.

892
01:01:37,239 --> 01:01:40,440
You had vans in front of your front lawn trying

893
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,880
to get information, and it sounded like a media circus.

894
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,880
I remember you said you were talking about your local

895
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,920
CBS affiliate might have aired something on it. And during

896
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,239
this time there seemed to be a lot in the news.

897
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,000
I remember ABC, and tell me if you saw this.

898
01:01:57,159 --> 01:02:03,960
Peter Jennings did a whole special about UFOs and it was,

899
01:02:04,679 --> 01:02:10,199
in my opinion, a master hit piece, coming in pretending

900
01:02:10,239 --> 01:02:14,360
to be all scientific and you know, thoughtful and whatnot.

901
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:15,840
But in the end they came out and said it

902
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:17,880
was all bunk. Do you remember that program.

903
01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 2: I don't remember seeing it, but I've heard the same

904
01:02:25,159 --> 01:02:29,679
conclusion that that you've given as that it was a setup.

905
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,440
People tuned in thinking that they were going to get

906
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:38,960
some useful, valuable information about the UFO, uh, you know,

907
01:02:39,559 --> 01:02:42,440
incidents that have occurred, and then it turned out to

908
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,599
be that there it was a complete debunking of it.

909
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:52,559
So I don't no, I didn't really see it, but

910
01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:58,559
I'm not surprised there, you know. Uh. When when I

911
01:02:58,599 --> 01:03:01,440
was asked to be on Numero programs, I did go

912
01:03:01,519 --> 01:03:05,880
on NBC's Dateline because they have a history of doing

913
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,199
serious news programs. I went on Larry King. I was

914
01:03:10,239 --> 01:03:13,559
asked by Roaldo Rivera and Bill O'Reilly to be on

915
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:19,800
their shows, and again I didn't think they were going

916
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,920
to do a serious take on it, and so I

917
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,960
decided to go on Larry King. And of course if

918
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,840
you've gone Larry King, and there's a competition between among

919
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:33,920
the networks, and if you've go on Larry King, then

920
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,719
Fox doesn't launcher, you know. And I didn't want to

921
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:41,119
go on Bill O'Reilly's anyway. But you know, Larry's done

922
01:03:41,159 --> 01:03:45,559
some serious coverage of the UFO phenomena. There are a

923
01:03:45,559 --> 01:03:51,079
few folks out there who've really tried to uncover this,

924
01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:54,960
I mean, get the public awareness of it out there.

925
01:03:55,079 --> 01:03:56,960
And I think, you know, so there are a few

926
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:58,480
folks have done a great job of it.

927
01:03:59,519 --> 01:03:59,719
Speaker 8: Yeah.

928
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:02,719
Speaker 1: And you know, when I saw that piece with Peter

929
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,440
Jennings at that period of time, and I wasn't a

930
01:04:05,519 --> 01:04:09,519
super a big nightly news watcher, but you know, I

931
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:11,599
was like Peter Jennings and I always thought he was

932
01:04:11,639 --> 01:04:14,199
one of those newscasters that you can you know, it's

933
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,800
like a Walter Cronkite. Almost. When Walter spoke, everybody listened

934
01:04:18,199 --> 01:04:21,440
and you took everything he said as gospel. And when

935
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,800
he said the Vietnam War was over, so much of

936
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,920
America believe that right off the bat, and American support dwindled.

937
01:04:29,519 --> 01:04:33,960
Yet we are in this age now where Peter Jennings

938
01:04:34,079 --> 01:04:36,039
doing this kind of piece, and it was an obvious

939
01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:40,559
hit piece from the very beginning. And then you have nowadays,

940
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:42,719
you have Brian Williams, who was one of the most

941
01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:46,480
respected newscasters out there, and now this whole scandal that

942
01:04:46,639 --> 01:04:50,199
how much he's been making up and faking all this time,

943
01:04:50,519 --> 01:04:54,440
he has no credibility left. So you have to question

944
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,639
just because you see it on the news doesn't mean

945
01:04:57,679 --> 01:05:00,679
it's real, and just because they tell you something is

946
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:02,239
not real doesn't make it.

947
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, I felt that I was fortunate to

948
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,920
be in a position I was in to be able

949
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:16,960
to have i think probably the greatest insight into the

950
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:24,000
Stephenville incident of anyone else except perhaps some of the

951
01:05:24,039 --> 01:05:29,840
actual insiders that whose story will never be told publicly.

952
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: So well, let me ask you about that, Ken, not

953
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,199
to interrupt you, because I think one thing that's very

954
01:05:37,199 --> 01:05:40,360
important that people should know about your book. Okay, you

955
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:45,559
researched the Stephenville case for over almost a year, and

956
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:47,800
you had a lot of top researchers with you. So

957
01:05:48,519 --> 01:05:51,199
the question that I'm sure a lot of our listeners

958
01:05:51,199 --> 01:05:53,599
will have when they pick up the book is we

959
01:05:53,639 --> 01:05:56,239
do stress the fact that the book is written as

960
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:00,760
a novel, so it's a fictionalized account of the real

961
01:06:01,679 --> 01:06:05,719
actual events that went on in Stevenville. So the question

962
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,280
I guess that people are going to ask is why

963
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,480
did you choose to write it in a fictional narrative

964
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,079
rather than just state all the facts?

965
01:06:17,679 --> 01:06:23,119
Speaker 2: Lawsuits, fear of personal injury. I don't know, pick one.

966
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you.

967
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:32,119
Speaker 2: I actually did write the book four separate times before

968
01:06:32,639 --> 01:06:36,239
I finally decided to make it a novel. And in

969
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:42,679
the beginning, I was so infuriated about some of the

970
01:06:42,719 --> 01:06:44,639
lies that were being told of the public, some of

971
01:06:44,679 --> 01:06:50,440
the misinformation is being put out, some of the some

972
01:06:50,519 --> 01:06:52,960
of the facts that are being hidden from the public,

973
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:57,039
that I wanted to write a tell all. And I

974
01:06:57,159 --> 01:07:03,480
had names by his stage times, and I would send, uh,

975
01:07:04,159 --> 01:07:08,000
you know, excerpts to publishers. But you know, I found

976
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,239
I had several that backed off when they saw some

977
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,519
of the people and some of the backgrounds that I

978
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:16,639
named that they had, and they just said, Hey, we

979
01:07:16,679 --> 01:07:19,480
don't want to tangle these folks. You know it's you.

980
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:24,679
We're here to sell books, you know. So and I

981
01:07:24,719 --> 01:07:30,480
did sit down and take the advice of several uh,

982
01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:35,880
friends who have a lot of experience in as writers,

983
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,840
and you know, that's what they suggested I do, is

984
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:42,239
just take the novel and put and take the information,

985
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:46,719
put it in a novel form, and then I you know, honestly,

986
01:07:47,719 --> 01:07:49,920
I don't spend a lot of time reading books anymore.

987
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,559
You still have three of them going at a time.

988
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:55,039
But now I just find that life is just so

989
01:07:55,119 --> 01:07:57,480
full of things that I'm you know, busy constantly. I

990
01:07:57,519 --> 01:07:59,840
don't really read the Wish and I want, I would

991
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:02,039
like to anymore. But I understand that there are any

992
01:08:02,119 --> 01:08:07,960
number of very popular authors out there who write about

993
01:08:09,119 --> 01:08:13,199
things that they know from intelligence agencies they've worked for,

994
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:18,039
have connections with that they can't possibly write it, you know,

995
01:08:18,079 --> 01:08:24,079
as nonfiction. So this seemed like the most likely vehicle. Plus,

996
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:29,079
you know, I think that the way I presented the

997
01:08:29,119 --> 01:08:36,279
information there, it's going to be obvious to most readers.

998
01:08:37,159 --> 01:08:40,840
What is the fictional part that's there for sheer entertainment

999
01:08:41,039 --> 01:08:44,760
and what what's real? You know, I'd say that the

1000
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:49,119
majority of the book is based on real characters, real situations.

1001
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:57,119
Speaker 1: Well, Irean, that sounds very familiar, doesn't it. We have

1002
01:08:57,199 --> 01:09:00,199
a lot of in your book there are a lot

1003
01:09:00,239 --> 01:09:05,000
of interesting characters, and because that it is a fictional book,

1004
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:08,800
I wanted to focus on a couple of the characters

1005
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,079
and situations in the book compare it to what the

1006
01:09:11,159 --> 01:09:15,000
real case was. Now, in the opening chapter, you start

1007
01:09:15,039 --> 01:09:18,079
with a rancher by the name of Frank Carter and

1008
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:23,600
having a very strange experience. Now, was this case based

1009
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,119
on any actual events?

1010
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:33,239
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm glad you mentioned that, because, uh, first,

1011
01:09:33,239 --> 01:09:35,119
the first thing that I wanted to do for the

1012
01:09:35,159 --> 01:09:40,600
reader was dispel the notion that this is a story

1013
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:47,000
about Steve Allen and Officer Gayton's sightings, because those are

1014
01:09:47,039 --> 01:09:52,800
the two witnesses that were most publicly, you know, interviewed

1015
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:57,119
and cited, and with all of the programs that I

1016
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:59,399
was involved in, whether it's the UFO Hunter's and the

1017
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:07,119
Learning Channel, various other people who did chasing UFOs, everybody

1018
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,800
came at this from the same direction. They sat down

1019
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:17,039
and interviewed Steve Allen and Leroy Gayton, and the reporter there,

1020
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,880
Angelia Joiner, and a couple of other folks maybe, and

1021
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:26,079
that's really not even the tip of the iceberg. And

1022
01:10:26,199 --> 01:10:30,239
so right off the bat, I want the reader to

1023
01:10:30,319 --> 01:10:34,359
realize that this is a story that's much greater than

1024
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,600
you know, the one that they've already heard. So if

1025
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:43,840
you're expecting that, if you're expecting that you know what's

1026
01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:46,840
written about or what's going to be said, then they're

1027
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:49,000
going to be surprised right off the bat. Now back

1028
01:10:49,039 --> 01:10:53,920
to your question, Yes, this was an actual case. This

1029
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,760
gentleman was a dairy farmer, as many people there in

1030
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:01,960
the Urath County are, and he came to me and

1031
01:11:02,079 --> 01:11:06,079
told me this story that was just incredible. He went

1032
01:11:06,119 --> 01:11:09,720
out to feed his to check on his cows. I

1033
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,439
don't know what dairy farmers do at nine o'clock at night,

1034
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,960
but you know, at some point in the evening he

1035
01:11:15,039 --> 01:11:18,199
went out to uh to check on his on his cows.

1036
01:11:18,199 --> 01:11:22,119
He had a small dairy herd, had a daytime job

1037
01:11:22,239 --> 01:11:23,920
like a lot of these folks do, so he had

1038
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,800
He wasn't a big dairy man. Maybe he had a

1039
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:32,560
dozen cows, I don't know. And he was opening the

1040
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,920
gate to go into the barnyard and boom, next thing

1041
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,479
he knows, it's midnight and he's still standing there at

1042
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:44,960
the gate. And so he had these memories come back

1043
01:11:45,079 --> 01:11:51,920
of being abducted, and uh, you know this this notion

1044
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,880
that went through his head of you know, my cows.

1045
01:11:55,039 --> 01:11:58,239
You know, the biggest fear in his mind was not

1046
01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:00,399
what had happened to me for three hours, that were

1047
01:12:00,399 --> 01:12:04,560
my cows, you know, because it represented a big percentage

1048
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,119
of his income, you know. And uh, that's the one

1049
01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:13,119
I wanted to lead off with. But again, you know,

1050
01:12:13,279 --> 01:12:16,880
I can't confirm how many cows he had before this incident.

1051
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:22,800
He didn't say he had any marks, strange marks on

1052
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:28,680
him or anything like that. So without proof, which in

1053
01:12:29,079 --> 01:12:34,640
most of these witness reports can't be proved, you know.

1054
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:38,039
That's the way we you know, I sus to portray

1055
01:12:38,079 --> 01:12:43,439
it in the novel is you know what in novel

1056
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,560
form that is. I can't stay absolutely one hundred percent

1057
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:50,680
that it's a fact. So but I found it most interesting.

1058
01:12:51,159 --> 01:12:56,199
I did have, unknown to the public, many many interesting

1059
01:12:57,199 --> 01:13:02,000
witness reports that you know, just were not ever made public.

1060
01:13:02,199 --> 01:13:07,000
So and frankly quite a few that people did not

1061
01:13:07,319 --> 01:13:14,239
want to have publicized or published or on the record.

1062
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,960
You know, they wanted to tell me about them, but

1063
01:13:18,279 --> 01:13:20,640
they were afraid to do anything about it. There was

1064
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,520
a I remember one case there was a country western

1065
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:30,439
singer who had a gig in Abilene, which is west

1066
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:35,640
of this area, north and west of this area, and

1067
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:39,520
they were returning from Abilene. Uh he had a tour

1068
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:45,319
bus for his musicians and he and his manager someone

1069
01:13:45,359 --> 01:13:49,920
were in a car. And there's a particular area out

1070
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:53,760
there on the highway called Ranger Hill, which is, you know,

1071
01:13:54,159 --> 01:13:58,239
a big hill by mountain standards. But at any rate,

1072
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:05,399
this this orb hovered over their bus right front of

1073
01:14:05,399 --> 01:14:07,439
the destruct. They were afraid they're going to go off

1074
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,760
the side of the hill, and then that changed positions

1075
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:12,880
and went in front of the car and they all

1076
01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:18,720
so that they stopped both vehicles and it again, it's unlit,

1077
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,359
starry night out there, you know, in the middle of nowhere,

1078
01:14:23,319 --> 01:14:26,359
and the thing shot, you know, just sort of dropped

1079
01:14:26,399 --> 01:14:31,039
down the side of the hill. And this man got

1080
01:14:31,079 --> 01:14:34,600
out and with his thirty eight he's got to go

1081
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:38,680
confront this UFO. And bear in mind, now this is

1082
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:43,520
a bust full of musicians and his road manager. And

1083
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,159
I forget his particular song. I'm not a big country

1084
01:14:46,199 --> 01:14:49,279
Western fan, but I've heard of, you know, his his song,

1085
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,319
and I think that was their one main claim to fame. Anyway,

1086
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:56,640
by the time he got down and approached the orb

1087
01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:59,640
there it was sort of hanging in the trees. Its

1088
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,760
shot up and then headed in east toward for Worth.

1089
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,520
They got to the next little town and there was

1090
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:11,359
a state trooper there and they said they pulled in

1091
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:13,399
the gas station. They thought about going on to talk to

1092
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:18,159
the trooper, and then they said, nah, you know, cop

1093
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,039
a bus full of musicians, they're just going to think

1094
01:15:22,079 --> 01:15:24,760
we were on weed or something, you know, and we

1095
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:30,279
don't want them ransacking the bus. So because they probably

1096
01:15:30,319 --> 01:15:34,680
did have some meat in there. But you know, this

1097
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:38,119
is a gentleman who had He was an older guy.

1098
01:15:38,239 --> 01:15:41,439
I mean, his career probably peaked twenty years earlier, but

1099
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,119
they were still out making a few bucks. So you know,

1100
01:15:45,199 --> 01:15:47,079
he he did not want to go on the record,

1101
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,920
but you know, he had numerous a number of other

1102
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:56,399
witnesses with him. And you know, this is one of

1103
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,680
the accounts that was never made public, and there's quite

1104
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:04,199
a few others that were equally interesting. But any rate,

1105
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:09,079
I just felt that folks ought to hear some of

1106
01:16:09,079 --> 01:16:11,319
the other voices that went unheard.

1107
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: Now, you had several other very interesting characters in the book,

1108
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,359
and you know, there's a lot in the book I'm

1109
01:16:19,359 --> 01:16:22,439
gonna also say this right now for our listeners. The

1110
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,800
whole story that's in the book, we're not going to

1111
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,800
cover that tonight, because ideally you need to buy the

1112
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:32,000
book because there's some really earth shattering information in there

1113
01:16:32,079 --> 01:16:34,640
that's going to really open a lot of people's eyes

1114
01:16:35,319 --> 01:16:38,159
and make them do a double take actually when they learn,

1115
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,560
you know, a lot of what you had discovered was

1116
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:45,359
going on in that area for this UFO flap. But

1117
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:47,920
let me ask you some questions based on some of

1118
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:51,840
the characters that you had in the book. Now, in

1119
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,359
one one segment, you had an elderly lady who warned

1120
01:16:57,399 --> 01:17:04,720
Mark Slade about a plan or an intrigue reaching the

1121
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:09,279
highest levels of government and other organizations. You know that,

1122
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,520
and it offered a pretty frightening scenario. Now, was this

1123
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:14,840
based on an actual person?

1124
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 2: Yes, it was. I would say most of the characters

1125
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:28,279
in the book are based on real people. She was

1126
01:17:28,319 --> 01:17:36,800
a very interesting lady, brilliant woman. Had She was working

1127
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:40,479
on her master's thesis when she was approached by the CIA.

1128
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:49,239
They recruited her and promised to pay for her PhD dissertation.

1129
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:56,800
This is going into her early career years ago, back

1130
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:02,399
in the seventies. But she said she worked officially for

1131
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:09,279
Bell Labs in a work area that was so secret,

1132
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,079
had no windows in the place, and they were not

1133
01:18:12,199 --> 01:18:14,680
allowed to even tell anyone where they parked their cars.

1134
01:18:15,199 --> 01:18:24,439
That's how secret it was. But that she helped develop

1135
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:29,039
the cell phones, which she said that we're used for

1136
01:18:29,159 --> 01:18:33,239
many years by our intelligence agencies before they were even

1137
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:40,680
made public. So it gives you some idea of her background.

1138
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:44,920
At one point, when she was working on her PhD dissertation,

1139
01:18:45,039 --> 01:18:48,319
she was in the in an exchange program. Somehow she

1140
01:18:48,399 --> 01:18:52,720
went to to Russia. I guess it was still a

1141
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:56,920
Soviet Union at that time, but anyway, this was apparently

1142
01:18:56,920 --> 01:18:59,880
in the seventies, and she said that things were pretty

1143
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:05,680
open then. They you know, the KGB routinely followed everybody.

1144
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:09,600
They they assumed everyone was a spy. And she actually

1145
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,600
sat down with the officer that was assigned to her

1146
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,720
and he brought out a Manila folder, you know, I

1147
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:20,279
had a chief of papers in it, which she said,

1148
01:19:20,279 --> 01:19:25,079
this is your file. And she said, I was shocked,

1149
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:28,600
you know, there was that much information available about me,

1150
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:33,359
and but they they knew everything about her, including the

1151
01:19:33,399 --> 01:19:37,279
fact that she had She said it not me that

1152
01:19:37,359 --> 01:19:41,199
she was a lesbian, you know, And so she said, gosh,

1153
01:19:41,319 --> 01:19:44,399
you know, she hadn't really flooded that, and she was

1154
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:48,520
a she was petite, sweet, pretty lady. I don't know

1155
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:52,960
one would just assume from her parents. But anyway, just

1156
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:57,680
some background on her. And uh, she said, even though

1157
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:02,680
she was on the H organizational chart there at Bill Labs,

1158
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:06,880
she had a boss supposedly there that he knew not

1159
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,279
to ask questions if she was she wasn't then, and

1160
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:14,279
that she really reported to somebody else. So she said,

1161
01:20:16,119 --> 01:20:21,880
she was making the point that this uh information about UFO,

1162
01:20:22,039 --> 01:20:26,560
S E T S, this back engineering base, uh, you know,

1163
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:32,000
alien technology, all of this is so compartmentalized that various

1164
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:36,159
uh intelligence agencies spy on each other.

1165
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,119
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well they do that anyway, but.

1166
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, they spy on each other, you know, because this

1167
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:47,399
is so value to this information, you know. But anyway,

1168
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:51,760
she received a call, a communication from her superior with

1169
01:20:52,199 --> 01:20:57,199
the CIA what and they he gave her the exact

1170
01:20:57,239 --> 01:21:03,239
coordinance to be a precise time, and she drove there,

1171
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:07,800
which was a couple of states away. And at the

1172
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,640
point in time she was sitting there and she didn't

1173
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:13,760
know what do we expect, you know, and she said

1174
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:17,840
the suddenly, at just about the right time, this large

1175
01:21:18,279 --> 01:21:22,840
silent craft just came down and hovered, and then out

1176
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:29,199
of nowhere these men in some sort of uniform appeared

1177
01:21:29,239 --> 01:21:34,359
with this big cart black thing that was raised up

1178
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:40,239
into this vehicle. I mean, it was way ahead of

1179
01:21:40,399 --> 01:21:46,960
time of anything we have for supposedly for the you know,

1180
01:21:47,279 --> 01:21:50,279
for any you know, anything that she was describing was

1181
01:21:50,359 --> 01:21:52,840
not They didn't have it back in the seventies, at

1182
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:59,640
least publicly anyway, It's very quiet. Anyway, it turns out.

1183
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 1: That the little was Dulci Dulce in New Mexico. Yes, oh, yes,

1184
01:22:05,079 --> 01:22:06,359
that's a fascinating area.

1185
01:22:07,079 --> 01:22:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, you know, there's this raging controversy, you know,

1186
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,479
among your fologists and debunkers and whatnot about is there

1187
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:19,079
really a secret underground base there Dulcie. You know, all

1188
01:22:19,119 --> 01:22:21,039
of the things that are supposed to have occurred. Are

1189
01:22:21,039 --> 01:22:23,600
there aliens there or there this or that or whatever.

1190
01:22:24,199 --> 01:22:29,239
But this woman is telling me this very significant information

1191
01:22:29,399 --> 01:22:33,239
here that a not only is there a secret base

1192
01:22:33,279 --> 01:22:36,640
there and they have some way of you know, coming

1193
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:40,319
up you know, that there was they are in contact

1194
01:22:40,319 --> 01:22:46,840
with these crafts back in the seventies. That so any rate,

1195
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:52,199
that was her purpose there. And I mean, I don't

1196
01:22:52,239 --> 01:22:54,039
know what her purpose was. If it was just to

1197
01:22:54,079 --> 01:22:57,399
witness this or if her bosses wanted to know if

1198
01:22:57,439 --> 01:23:01,439
their source of information was reliable. Well who knows what

1199
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:05,119
the whole purpose was now, but I thought the information

1200
01:23:05,239 --> 01:23:08,159
was significant. And then yes, we did get into all

1201
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:12,000
this about you know, this big competition among agencies for

1202
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:16,399
anything technology and alien related.

1203
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:18,479
Speaker 1: Now, how did she reach out to you or how

1204
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:19,199
did you meet her?

1205
01:23:22,319 --> 01:23:28,560
Speaker 2: Well that I can't really reveal, but we did become friends.

1206
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,520
And I didn't know her for a number of years,

1207
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:36,640
and so even so I would say that it took

1208
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:42,359
She was retired when I met her, and I guess

1209
01:23:42,399 --> 01:23:43,680
I could just tell you I met her at a

1210
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,239
conference and then we got to talking and so forth,

1211
01:23:46,319 --> 01:23:50,000
and and that was, you know, sort of the initial

1212
01:23:50,039 --> 01:23:52,039
basis of it. And I think she realized that I

1213
01:23:52,159 --> 01:23:55,359
was a serious individual. I wasn't, you know, just there

1214
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:59,640
for the you know that to participate in some sort

1215
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:02,119
of a car arnival or something, you know, some big party.

1216
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,920
And so we got to know each other. And one

1217
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:10,720
thing Mark as an investment advisor for thirty four or

1218
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,600
five years. One of the things I was told when

1219
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,960
at first that came into the business was that people,

1220
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,359
once they trust you with their money, they'll trust you

1221
01:24:21,079 --> 01:24:24,399
with every detail of their life, you know, because they

1222
01:24:24,399 --> 01:24:27,439
said they will tell you things they would tell their spouses,

1223
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:32,319
their lawyers, their CPAs, their doctor or whatever. Once you

1224
01:24:32,399 --> 01:24:37,000
know about their money, they'll trust you with everything. So

1225
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:42,159
I guess I have found that you learn more with

1226
01:24:42,199 --> 01:24:46,760
your mouth shut than with their mouth flapping. So she

1227
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:48,960
wanted to talk. I think she was at that stage

1228
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:52,079
of her life, and I you know, it was an intelligent,

1229
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:57,439
sympathetic ear or so. But you know, any number of

1230
01:24:57,479 --> 01:25:02,479
these other sources that I had or they are the

1231
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:06,319
same kind of folks. I mean, they're just solid, substantial,

1232
01:25:07,399 --> 01:25:11,199
totally credible, and uh, you know, I have no I

1233
01:25:11,279 --> 01:25:14,119
have no doubt that you're telling me the truth and

1234
01:25:14,239 --> 01:25:17,199
that they would want me to put for the information

1235
01:25:17,359 --> 01:25:20,880
in this manner. And one thing you did say was

1236
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:23,640
that we conducted the investigation for a year. I would

1237
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:28,239
say that was the official investigation. My my investigation into

1238
01:25:28,279 --> 01:25:35,399
it was over a period of years, and so you know, personally,

1239
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,960
I put years into this, and some of my contacts

1240
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:43,560
have been developed over years, and you don't you don't

1241
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:47,960
gain those kind of confidences in one or two meetings.

1242
01:25:48,079 --> 01:25:51,279
You know, it takes time. I did have a few

1243
01:25:51,399 --> 01:25:54,239
calls from people out of the blue that offered some

1244
01:25:54,319 --> 01:25:58,920
pretty pretty stounding information, but they're really substantial folks that

1245
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:00,640
they don't open up that easy.

1246
01:26:01,279 --> 01:26:04,359
Speaker 1: Now, you also had a couple of other interesting characters

1247
01:26:04,399 --> 01:26:09,279
in the book, and you one there was the older gentleman,

1248
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:15,079
gentleman who assisted the main character advocating for disclosure. Now,

1249
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,760
with some of these main characters, were they like this

1250
01:26:19,159 --> 01:26:22,279
older gentleman. Was it based on a real person or

1251
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,600
did you use what some writers sometimes do. They'll take

1252
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,159
a conglomerate of people and put them into one character

1253
01:26:29,239 --> 01:26:31,760
to be able to, you know, for ease of the

1254
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,960
narrative and ease for getting the information out.

1255
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 2: Well, this character is actually based on a real person,

1256
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:48,159
and he is probably one of the most and earliest

1257
01:26:48,199 --> 01:26:57,039
significant and most significant and earliest of my contacts. I

1258
01:26:57,159 --> 01:27:01,359
may have along the way put a few words in

1259
01:27:01,399 --> 01:27:05,159
his mouth. You know that came from other sources that

1260
01:27:05,239 --> 01:27:09,079
you just weren't as significant. I mean, there's significant information,

1261
01:27:09,199 --> 01:27:12,439
but not enough to make a whole character. So you know,

1262
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:15,720
to that degree. I probably did combine him with some

1263
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:18,760
but I'd say eighty five ninety percent of him as him.

1264
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:23,079
I must say one thing. This particular character that you're

1265
01:27:23,119 --> 01:27:29,279
referring to in the story. He is a trim, seventy

1266
01:27:29,399 --> 01:27:37,520
ish sort of a very deadly, surprisingly deadly old man.

1267
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:41,319
He's kind of a David Carradine type of person, with

1268
01:27:41,399 --> 01:27:44,520
the hair pulled back on a ponytail. He's still lost

1269
01:27:45,119 --> 01:27:48,520
hippie generation you know where, and wear's expensive suits and

1270
01:27:49,119 --> 01:27:54,760
you could tell he's very powerful. The real character is

1271
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:59,560
almost the antithesis of that antithesis. You can say it,

1272
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:04,760
I can't. But anyway, gentleman was what we used to,

1273
01:28:06,359 --> 01:28:11,680
oh politely called portly, not like real beast, but you know,

1274
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,840
just he carried his weight well, but he was heavyweight.

1275
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:20,199
He was retired very there was there's an old movie

1276
01:28:20,359 --> 01:28:27,439
character played Topper or something and a bunch of movies

1277
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:31,079
back in the fifties. Anyway, he parted his hair in

1278
01:28:31,119 --> 01:28:34,840
the middle. He had a little pencil thin mustache.

1279
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 6: Uh.

1280
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:38,720
Speaker 2: He smoked his cigarettes and a filter. He would sit

1281
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,920
there and just drive me nuts, meticulously putting, you know,

1282
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:46,399
inserting his unfiltered cigarettes into this cigarette holder. I'm thinking,

1283
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:51,319
why don't you just buy filtered cigarettes? And you know,

1284
01:28:51,359 --> 01:28:54,680
he wore this enormous ring on his finger. I'm sure

1285
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,960
was some ivy League school signet ring or something, but

1286
01:28:59,359 --> 01:29:03,079
big gold ring. I got to know this man, and

1287
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:08,840
I don't I knew his son, and his son was

1288
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:10,880
a very it was a there do well. I mean,

1289
01:29:11,079 --> 01:29:15,159
you know, good grief into all kinds of things. But

1290
01:29:15,159 --> 01:29:20,920
at any rate, I think that this gentleman viewed me

1291
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:23,239
as the kind of son that he wishes, I mean,

1292
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:25,880
like his son, but more likely what he wishes he had.

1293
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:31,880
And I recall one conversation we had, and I knew

1294
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:34,039
that he spent a lot of time in Washington, d C.

1295
01:29:34,319 --> 01:29:38,399
I didn't really know what he did. He came back

1296
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:45,720
to his hometown during I gotta be careful, I'll put this, uh,

1297
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:50,560
during Christmas breaks and things, and so you know, that's

1298
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:53,199
really when I saw him. And when we were just

1299
01:29:53,239 --> 01:29:57,319
here during those breaks and one evening, just he and

1300
01:29:57,319 --> 01:29:59,880
I sitting there and the other members of the house.

1301
01:30:00,119 --> 01:30:03,199
God taught to some country club to play bingo or something,

1302
01:30:04,119 --> 01:30:09,800
and anyway, ask him, we were just I don't know

1303
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:13,800
how we got into this but I wanted to know

1304
01:30:14,039 --> 01:30:17,520
what he did, you know, I was curious, and he

1305
01:30:18,079 --> 01:30:20,439
was in a strange mood. He kind of looked off wistfully,

1306
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,199
like he was looking through the wall, and said that

1307
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:30,279
he was one of a three man committee that approved

1308
01:30:30,279 --> 01:30:39,319
the final Black budgets disbursements. And I wasn't really completely

1309
01:30:39,359 --> 01:30:42,199
clear at that stage of my life what that meant.

1310
01:30:43,399 --> 01:30:46,239
But I didn't say a word. I was just listening intently,

1311
01:30:46,319 --> 01:30:52,039
and he said this the first year, he's one year.

1312
01:30:52,239 --> 01:30:57,119
The budget was so huge that he said, there's this

1313
01:30:57,520 --> 01:30:59,720
and I believe it was a four star general or

1314
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:03,399
someone sitting there in front of the committee and they said,

1315
01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:10,279
look this, this budget request is so enormous and there's

1316
01:31:10,319 --> 01:31:12,960
no oversight. We're just we're not going to prove it

1317
01:31:13,199 --> 01:31:18,399
until we know where the money's going. And so he said.

1318
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:22,159
They took them, meeting him and the other two men,

1319
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:28,840
to this hangar and they opened it up and in

1320
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:33,279
it were all these what he called flying saucers, all

1321
01:31:33,279 --> 01:31:39,560
different sizes, and the general said, that's where the money's going.

1322
01:31:41,119 --> 01:31:44,960
And so this was back in the early sixties. Mark,

1323
01:31:45,079 --> 01:31:49,560
we have had a secret space program since at least

1324
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:50,680
the early sixties.

1325
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 1: Oh, I believe that. I believe, you know, if you

1326
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:56,960
look at it, it's a I look at it personally,

1327
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:02,359
that it's criminal. How what assa? NASA just seems to

1328
01:32:02,359 --> 01:32:04,119
be a front these days. They throw a little bit

1329
01:32:04,159 --> 01:32:07,079
of science out there to keep pacify some people, but

1330
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,279
the winter, the moon, and then that's it. They lost

1331
01:32:10,319 --> 01:32:13,640
all interest. And that just doesn't make sense to me,

1332
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:17,520
because there's so much rich potential of leaving this planet

1333
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:20,760
and going elsewhere. But it seems like a diversion for

1334
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:24,520
the public to make them think nobody's really interested in anymore.

1335
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:28,159
Seems like we in the sixties we took huge steps forward,

1336
01:32:28,279 --> 01:32:33,399
and then after that we took major steps backwards. But yeah,

1337
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:35,279
I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts on that

1338
01:32:35,359 --> 01:32:35,760
as well.

1339
01:32:36,319 --> 01:32:38,560
Speaker 2: Well. I do. I mean, I think that these were

1340
01:32:39,239 --> 01:32:43,119
high paid jobs that are will make work programs, government,

1341
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:49,079
you know, appearing to show an interest in space exploration,

1342
01:32:49,319 --> 01:32:53,680
and each president that's come in has gotten some glimpse

1343
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:56,880
of what our real capabilities are and say, you know,

1344
01:32:56,960 --> 01:32:59,119
there's a budget that I can cut right there for

1345
01:32:59,279 --> 01:33:04,119
my own pet projects, whether it be welfare spending or

1346
01:33:04,399 --> 01:33:09,079
you know, building a bridge and a constituent'sy hometown or whatever.

1347
01:33:09,199 --> 01:33:13,800
I mean, Uh, they they know the true nature of

1348
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:18,079
our capabilities, and you know, I think that's another reason

1349
01:33:18,239 --> 01:33:22,239
for probably our military has been slashed so much and

1350
01:33:22,399 --> 01:33:29,279
uh so uh you know, unfortunately the public isn't aware

1351
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:33,039
of of it. And and and of course that's that's

1352
01:33:33,079 --> 01:33:36,159
really one of the reasons that I wanted to get

1353
01:33:36,159 --> 01:33:42,359
my book out there is uh, you know, it's you know,

1354
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:48,880
to do whatever I can do to help alert the

1355
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:52,279
public that there are folks that are dead set against

1356
01:33:52,399 --> 01:33:55,720
disclosure and that they want to keep us in the dark.

1357
01:33:57,399 --> 01:34:02,680
As I mean, there are earth shattering technologies that are

1358
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:05,840
available and I mean that almost literally, but I mean

1359
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:08,439
that's a little dramatic, but I mean things that would

1360
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:11,960
just completely change life on this planet that they're hiding

1361
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:14,399
from us for the benefit of the elite. I mean,

1362
01:34:14,399 --> 01:34:19,319
there's just so much power that it's you know, this

1363
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:26,479
enormous struggle to keep it in a few hands. So well,

1364
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:28,479
it would also mean on switch side's going to win.

1365
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:30,479
But I think that was one of the reasons I

1366
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:31,159
read the book.

1367
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:33,880
Speaker 1: Well, it would also seem to me that if they

1368
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:38,319
have been able to capture technology through some of these crashes.

1369
01:34:38,359 --> 01:34:40,760
Of course Rosbell being one of the famous ones, but

1370
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:45,680
there's lots of other different crashes, some more famous than others.

1371
01:34:46,039 --> 01:34:49,680
So if they've collected all this, these flying saucers, and

1372
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,279
they've back engineered technology, then what would we need the

1373
01:34:53,319 --> 01:34:58,720
modern space program for. So I can understand that how

1374
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:01,399
that's more of like a front and it covers what

1375
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:03,359
the real space program.

1376
01:35:03,079 --> 01:35:04,479
Speaker 4: Is going on behind the scenes.

1377
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:07,319
Speaker 1: We've we're probably on the moon right now, and we

1378
01:35:07,359 --> 01:35:10,640
as the public downer about it. And further, you know,

1379
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:14,960
Mars Mars beyond. I mean, if they're able to crack

1380
01:35:15,359 --> 01:35:20,000
the technology that allows interstellar or interdimensional travel, then you know,

1381
01:35:20,159 --> 01:35:22,760
the sky's the limit and it's only a few people

1382
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,720
in the government or even the shadow governments that have

1383
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:27,520
access to it.

1384
01:35:28,159 --> 01:35:31,279
Speaker 2: A friend of mine attended a speech by ben Rich,

1385
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:36,159
and ben Rich was the head of the Skunk Works,

1386
01:35:36,199 --> 01:35:41,720
which did you know, uh did a lot of the

1387
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:44,239
black budget projects for the government. It was one of

1388
01:35:44,319 --> 01:35:50,000
the main for them, Lockey out of Luckey Bright. He

1389
01:35:50,039 --> 01:35:53,640
is also known as the father of stealth. At any rate,

1390
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:58,920
ben Rich, before he died, said we have the technology

1391
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:03,479
to take et home and it wouldn't take light years

1392
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:09,640
Einstein was wrong. So there's if you don't listen to

1393
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,399
that guy. I mean, he's one of the few people

1394
01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:16,640
on the planet that knows, and he's not I don't

1395
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:21,279
think he was prone to making frivolous comments. He made

1396
01:36:21,359 --> 01:36:24,640
that statement in front of one of the top move

1397
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:29,239
on people, who is a nuclear physicist, in a conference,

1398
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:34,399
and so, I mean, he didn't do it to get

1399
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:38,960
a laugh, I'm sure. So how many people have to

1400
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:42,319
come out and say, you know, substantial people and say,

1401
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:45,560
we've seen these things flying around in our atmosphere, we've

1402
01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:51,039
seen them land, we've we've touched them whatever. I mean. So,

1403
01:36:53,439 --> 01:37:00,279
but I'm not completely unsympathetic to the idea that it

1404
01:37:00,279 --> 01:37:05,039
would be very difficult for people to deal with. One

1405
01:37:05,079 --> 01:37:08,159
of the things that you asked me about earlier was

1406
01:37:08,199 --> 01:37:13,039
the media and they're handling got the Stevenville story. Initially,

1407
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:16,680
I thought the handling of the story was pretty good,

1408
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:26,520
pretty balanced. But unfortunately people when they let's say, you

1409
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:31,880
sell lots of newspapers, a record number of newspapers, and

1410
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,760
you say, my god, you know this is a big story,

1411
01:37:35,319 --> 01:37:40,039
then you go out and start looking for more reports.

1412
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:46,119
Even if and some of those folks that were reported

1413
01:37:46,159 --> 01:37:49,399
in the newspaper clearly fabricated their stories in my opinion,

1414
01:37:50,199 --> 01:37:52,000
and I won't go into which ones of them, but

1415
01:37:52,039 --> 01:37:54,359
there were some that were trotted out time and time again.

1416
01:37:55,079 --> 01:38:01,399
I reiterate Steve Allen and Officer Gayton are very solid people,

1417
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:04,159
and I'm not talking about them but other folks. But

1418
01:38:04,239 --> 01:38:10,079
any rate, numbers of stories continued to appear until it

1419
01:38:10,119 --> 01:38:13,840
became a tabloid type of reporting. And one of the

1420
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:17,079
things that we noticed, and I'm saying we meet my

1421
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:23,399
team and doctor Bruce mcabee and doctor Bill Burns and

1422
01:38:24,079 --> 01:38:26,960
a number of other people they're involved with us in

1423
01:38:27,479 --> 01:38:31,720
our investigation, was that every time a story came out,

1424
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:36,840
there were more and more sightings and people became so there.

1425
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:39,960
Maccabee is the first one to mention it. He said,

1426
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:43,960
I've seen this before, and the media is creating this

1427
01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:52,439
mass hysteria so that people became hyper sensitive to anything

1428
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:54,760
that they saw in the sky that they didn't understand,

1429
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:57,520
whereas maybe they never never paid attention to the evening

1430
01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:02,439
sky before they would see the and and they would think, well,

1431
01:39:02,439 --> 01:39:04,800
it's part of this string of UFOs. And of course

1432
01:39:05,319 --> 01:39:08,520
there were always people who wanted their name in the paper,

1433
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:12,239
the who wanted the notoriety. So there was no end

1434
01:39:12,319 --> 01:39:16,079
of so called witnesses who came forward with these fantastic stories.

1435
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:19,479
And you know, I was accused of being a skeptic

1436
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:25,359
when I've had my own experiences and I'm not a skeptic.

1437
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:29,279
I just want the facts, that's all. And so most

1438
01:39:29,319 --> 01:39:34,680
of these later stories were not thoroughly vetted, or when

1439
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:39,159
I say thoroughly, I mean vetted at all. So it

1440
01:39:39,239 --> 01:39:46,800
created an air of hysteria and carnival like like atmosphere.

1441
01:39:47,159 --> 01:39:52,039
And so I could see how if suddenly everything were

1442
01:39:52,079 --> 01:39:56,039
revealed as being true. You know that they're ET's visiting us,

1443
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:59,560
there's there's you know, they come from various places where

1444
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:05,279
there's other dimensions or other galaxies, other planets, whatever. You know,

1445
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:09,439
the news coverage would be relentless. And I mean I've

1446
01:40:09,479 --> 01:40:13,319
already had some experience with that, and I do think

1447
01:40:13,359 --> 01:40:15,399
that there would be a lot of people who couldn't

1448
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:15,880
handle it.

1449
01:40:16,159 --> 01:40:20,399
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, well, especially with people being I hate to say

1450
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:26,079
it like this brainwashed and conditioned since childhood to be

1451
01:40:26,199 --> 01:40:29,720
skeptical and to believe in certain ways instead of having

1452
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:33,159
an open mind to certain possibilities. I mean, our Western

1453
01:40:33,199 --> 01:40:35,880
culture and society, I feel is probably one of the

1454
01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:39,760
most closed minded there is in the planet, because you're

1455
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:42,039
taught a certain way and what to believes in childhood,

1456
01:40:42,039 --> 01:40:44,079
and you stick to it. Anything that's outside of the

1457
01:40:44,159 --> 01:40:49,079
norm you poo poo. And when those beliefs are become challenged,

1458
01:40:49,119 --> 01:40:52,520
when reality rears its head and we see that the

1459
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:55,399
universe is not the way we think it is, then

1460
01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:57,199
of course, yes, there's going to be a lot of

1461
01:40:57,199 --> 01:40:59,920
people who will not be able to handle the cycle

1462
01:41:00,039 --> 01:41:02,760
logical trauma of being faced with reality.

1463
01:41:03,319 --> 01:41:12,359
Speaker 2: Ye. So, but I think in spite of everything that

1464
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:15,199
could happen, and obviously I think there could be enormous

1465
01:41:15,239 --> 01:41:20,119
ramifications that first of all, it would be for the

1466
01:41:20,239 --> 01:41:24,159
long run benefit of mankind. And secondly, as I sort

1467
01:41:24,159 --> 01:41:27,840
of animated my book, ultimately I think the decision is

1468
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:30,920
going to be taken out of our hands. And so

1469
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:34,800
Irene kind of alluded to this earlier that back in

1470
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:37,239
two thousand and eight, there were a large number of

1471
01:41:37,279 --> 01:41:44,800
sightings all over the world, and so you know, I'm

1472
01:41:46,199 --> 01:41:52,520
reminded of an idea that anthropologists used to discover various

1473
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:57,600
tribes that had never been exposed to the white man

1474
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:00,640
or to you know, civilized culture, and they would just

1475
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:04,520
go storming in and you know, they ended up wrecking

1476
01:42:06,079 --> 01:42:09,479
their their culture, and you know, the people died of

1477
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:15,479
diseases and what not and so forth. So they learned that.

1478
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:17,279
And I think there was even a movie made to

1479
01:42:17,279 --> 01:42:21,279
this effect. It was about a Coca Cola can that

1480
01:42:21,319 --> 01:42:25,159
falls out of an aircraft that's flying over this tribe

1481
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:27,640
in a remote area of Borneo or something.

1482
01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:30,640
Speaker 1: And actually in Africa, the gods must be crazy, Yes,

1483
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:31,760
I remember that one.

1484
01:42:32,319 --> 01:42:35,199
Speaker 2: Something like that, right, I think that's it. But any rate,

1485
01:42:35,239 --> 01:42:37,479
Anthropausis have found that the way to do it is

1486
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:41,760
introduced yourselves slowly. You know, at first you leave these

1487
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:48,039
bread crumbs and a coca cola can that pardon, maybe

1488
01:42:48,079 --> 01:42:51,359
a bit of cloth on a or a shirt or

1489
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:55,439
you know, just different things. But escalate and escalate, and

1490
01:42:55,479 --> 01:42:58,479
finally you kind of hide behind the weeds there and

1491
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:02,359
you wave at them and so forth, and slowly reveal

1492
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:05,279
yourself to them so that you you don't go into

1493
01:43:05,439 --> 01:43:10,920
they don't go into culture shock. Well, what we appear

1494
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:15,960
to be going through is this long term conditioning. Just

1495
01:43:16,119 --> 01:43:20,119
think about all of the science fiction movies and programs

1496
01:43:20,119 --> 01:43:22,800
that have been on for the last thirty forty years,

1497
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:26,960
you know, Star Trek and every other it's spinoff type

1498
01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:32,079
of program and all of the big name movies and

1499
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:35,399
even The Men in Black and you know, so it's

1500
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:40,399
popularized that to some degree, and I think it's been

1501
01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:43,439
shown that a number of the Hollywood producers are It's

1502
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:46,640
widely rumored, let me put it that way, that a

1503
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:51,399
number of these Hollywood producers have been given confidential information

1504
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:55,479
about you know, the UFOs and the ets and so

1505
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:58,680
forth that they've used in their shows so that they

1506
01:43:59,199 --> 01:44:04,640
it's realistic looking. And there are more and more sightings

1507
01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:08,159
and people attributed well, there's more cell phones, there's more video,

1508
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:11,359
you know, this, that and everything. I think there's an

1509
01:44:11,359 --> 01:44:18,760
absolute uptick in daylight sightings that ultimately will lead to

1510
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:24,520
undeniable presence that you know, won't rely upon governments to

1511
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:30,079
come forward. And of course, their their time frame is

1512
01:44:30,119 --> 01:44:33,159
different than ours. Obviously, they've been visiting us for tens

1513
01:44:33,159 --> 01:44:39,199
of thousands of years apparently, and so who knows, you know,

1514
01:44:39,279 --> 01:44:42,279
when it will finally be decided, Hey, now's the time

1515
01:44:42,319 --> 01:44:47,479
to expose our selves. You know, they're ready, But I

1516
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:52,920
think that's part of my thesis in my book, and

1517
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:57,399
you know, I give some other hints about that as well.

1518
01:44:57,560 --> 01:44:59,319
Speaker 1: So Irene, did you have a question.

1519
01:45:00,159 --> 01:45:03,399
Speaker 6: I wanted to know whether Candida had a UFO or

1520
01:45:03,439 --> 01:45:04,960
et experienced himself.

1521
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:08,920
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned that at the beginning of the show.

1522
01:45:09,079 --> 01:45:13,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I think I began talking about

1523
01:45:13,399 --> 01:45:16,359
that at some point and then got sidetracked, as I

1524
01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:20,199
very often do. But it was as a kiddo about

1525
01:45:20,399 --> 01:45:22,720
seven or eight years old and lived on a ranch

1526
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:27,159
outside of Dallas. It's it's it's hard for probably people

1527
01:45:27,159 --> 01:45:30,800
around here to believe that back in those days it

1528
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:34,840
was ranch land and now it's just you know, all

1529
01:45:35,279 --> 01:45:38,199
middle and upper middle class homes. Anyway, the place was Duncanville,

1530
01:45:39,079 --> 01:45:43,880
and I was out. You know, back in my day,

1531
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:46,760
kids didn't see their parents, and parents didn't see their

1532
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:48,279
kids for a whole day at a time. I mean,

1533
01:45:48,319 --> 01:45:51,319
you know, maybe they left in the morning, when they

1534
01:45:51,319 --> 01:45:54,439
came back in at night. We were pretty independent back then.

1535
01:45:55,199 --> 01:46:00,840
But I saw this strange craft going across the guyline there,

1536
01:46:02,359 --> 01:46:04,840
and I wasn't really familiar with what I was in

1537
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:08,439
the air at that time, the youngster. But the next

1538
01:46:08,439 --> 01:46:12,600
thing I saw was this jet aircraft diving down toward it,

1539
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,600
and then something happened. I don't know if it was

1540
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:22,079
a glint off of the first draft or what, you know,

1541
01:46:22,319 --> 01:46:26,159
but it seemed to hit the jet. The next thing

1542
01:46:26,199 --> 01:46:30,920
I know, the pilot ejected. Just had to be around

1543
01:46:32,199 --> 01:46:38,279
nineteen fifty four something like that, and he came down

1544
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:43,600
and this was all scrub trees around this ranch here,

1545
01:46:44,399 --> 01:46:48,640
and the pilot ended up in a tree, and the

1546
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:51,720
only thing that people talked about was, you know, retrieving

1547
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:55,119
this pilot out of the trees. You know, I had

1548
01:46:55,159 --> 01:46:58,880
never heard anybody else remarking about this so called what

1549
01:46:59,039 --> 01:47:03,840
I later as a UFO, So that was probably that

1550
01:47:04,119 --> 01:47:09,600
was my first occasion, and you know, as a kid,

1551
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:12,840
I didn't really understand the significance of what I'd seen,

1552
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:19,359
but I've read and heard later that at one point,

1553
01:47:20,039 --> 01:47:25,000
I think it was initiated by Truman an order to

1554
01:47:25,039 --> 01:47:29,279
shoot down UFOs if they refused to, you know, to land.

1555
01:47:30,199 --> 01:47:35,600
And I forget the Time magazine or whatever. It was

1556
01:47:35,640 --> 01:47:38,880
one of the top generals back in the day that

1557
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:42,159
was interviewed in the early fifties said that we were

1558
01:47:42,159 --> 01:47:49,439
losing an aircraft day worldwide. In the pursuit of these UFOs,

1559
01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:52,720
you know, trying to trying to make them land, I think,

1560
01:47:52,920 --> 01:47:57,960
and then finally that order was resented. I don't know.

1561
01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:00,159
I don't think it was Truman that did it, but

1562
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:06,760
later President, so you know, apparently the jet I saw

1563
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:08,239
was trying to make this thing land.

1564
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:11,439
Speaker 1: Good time, Well, let me ask you a question. We

1565
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:15,479
got about ten minutes left in the program here. With

1566
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:19,640
what you have learned about not only the government involvement

1567
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:24,600
with covering this up, people trying to force disclosure, it

1568
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:27,760
seems like a lot of disinformation, a lot of societal

1569
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:32,199
conditioning is going on, and even the Stephenville event itself,

1570
01:48:32,279 --> 01:48:34,239
which you know I won't go into detail on, but

1571
01:48:34,279 --> 01:48:36,159
for people who need to read the book to find

1572
01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:41,279
out what that event may really be indicative of, is

1573
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:45,600
where do you see this going in? Where do you

1574
01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:48,199
think we will be in ten years from now? Do

1575
01:48:48,239 --> 01:48:50,840
you think that it will still be where we are now,

1576
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:54,239
the non disclosure people just going on about their lives,

1577
01:48:54,640 --> 01:48:56,720
or do you see that there's something coming, There's some

1578
01:48:56,840 --> 01:49:00,319
kind of reckoning or awakening or something that's going to

1579
01:49:00,359 --> 01:49:04,520
come that's going to shake up our society.

1580
01:49:05,359 --> 01:49:12,199
Speaker 2: Well that's a loaded question. Because my background as an

1581
01:49:12,199 --> 01:49:14,520
economist tells me that we're going to have some sort

1582
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:22,800
of financial reckoning somewhere in the not too distant future. Anyway, Now,

1583
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:27,960
one of the occupants of the White House, at least

1584
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:32,319
the chief of staff, I believe, said you should never

1585
01:49:32,439 --> 01:49:37,960
let a crisis go to waste, you know, So whatever

1586
01:49:38,119 --> 01:49:46,359
crisis comes about or that needs a cover story or

1587
01:49:47,359 --> 01:49:54,640
whether some other forces, yeah at precipitate disclosure. I think

1588
01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:58,119
there will be some sort of event that will that

1589
01:49:58,239 --> 01:50:01,720
will make it happen some time in the next few years,

1590
01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:05,960
you know, certainly within a ten year time frame. I

1591
01:50:06,039 --> 01:50:11,159
just think that that people now are there many of

1592
01:50:11,199 --> 01:50:15,199
my sources, when they were young and they were pledged

1593
01:50:15,239 --> 01:50:20,840
to the confidentiality, would have given their lives to keep

1594
01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:25,960
the secrets that they've told me. But I think now,

1595
01:50:27,479 --> 01:50:34,119
especially my generation and I'm sixty eight, realizes that this

1596
01:50:34,359 --> 01:50:37,520
is too important of a story to be kept from

1597
01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:42,760
the world forever. And there you know, I've been a

1598
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:50,479
number of deathbed confessions already. Unfortunately, one of someone I

1599
01:50:50,520 --> 01:51:01,880
really like, Boyd bush Miller, has been discredited. But you know, Bushman,

1600
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:09,239
pardon me, he was he was an actual physicist. I

1601
01:51:09,279 --> 01:51:16,159
mean a engineer that worked on back engineering u ET technology. Anyway,

1602
01:51:16,199 --> 01:51:18,439
I got off the subject there a bit, but uh,

1603
01:51:19,079 --> 01:51:21,800
the point being, I think there's enough people with enough

1604
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:26,399
knowledge that will you know, give up the secrecy of

1605
01:51:26,439 --> 01:51:31,399
it and divulge into the world. And also it does

1606
01:51:31,439 --> 01:51:33,039
seem to me that there are more and more of

1607
01:51:33,039 --> 01:51:35,119
these type of daylight sightings that are going to become

1608
01:51:36,319 --> 01:51:40,920
impossible for the governments to ignore and not explain to

1609
01:51:40,960 --> 01:51:46,680
the people. So I believe, you know, it's going to happen.

1610
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,600
I wish it would be sooner rather than later. But

1611
01:51:51,840 --> 01:51:55,520
whichever way it goes, there will be fallout. I mean,

1612
01:51:56,079 --> 01:52:01,119
just think they're over four hundred million of bustion engines

1613
01:52:01,159 --> 01:52:05,600
in the world that may become you know, obsolete.

1614
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:08,439
Speaker 1: Which of course, you know, the oil company would not

1615
01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:10,920
be happy about because then they don't make money anymore.

1616
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:14,760
Speaker 2: That's right. And think of think of the Middle East.

1617
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:18,960
One of the few things that they have to generate

1618
01:52:19,079 --> 01:52:23,279
revenues to feed the masses, to quail the you know,

1619
01:52:23,359 --> 01:52:28,000
the uprisings, is the revenue from their oil. And what

1620
01:52:28,079 --> 01:52:32,680
if that stuff became suddenly worthless or nearly worthless, It's

1621
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:37,359
not going to happen overnight, but the demand would fall

1622
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:42,399
every time you know, some new aircraft carrier or some

1623
01:52:43,159 --> 01:52:47,680
you know, new aircraft, or you know, a train or

1624
01:52:47,760 --> 01:52:51,039
bus or something was rolled off the assembly line. One

1625
01:52:51,079 --> 01:52:57,720
less thing that used the oil would decrease demand pretty quickly. So, uh,

1626
01:52:57,880 --> 01:52:59,640
you know, there would be a big transition, and of

1627
01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:03,800
course it would attack a lot of people's belief systems. Fortunately,

1628
01:53:03,800 --> 01:53:06,439
the Vaticans already come out and said there's nothing inconsistent

1629
01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:11,600
with life on other you know, on other planets.

1630
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:14,079
Speaker 1: Well, I always felt like that was another way of

1631
01:53:14,119 --> 01:53:17,520
trying to prepare the public. That was a calculated move

1632
01:53:17,560 --> 01:53:19,560
on the Vatican's part exactly.

1633
01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:21,640
Speaker 2: And you know, there have been people have asked me,

1634
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:23,359
you would do you think the Pope's going to reveal

1635
01:53:23,399 --> 01:53:25,319
it when he comes here, you know, for his visit,

1636
01:53:25,479 --> 01:53:27,479
and it says, I have no clue what the Pope's

1637
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:30,880
going to say, But this does seem like a pope

1638
01:53:30,920 --> 01:53:36,159
that would he would do something of that nature.

1639
01:53:36,399 --> 01:53:40,359
Speaker 1: So, but it also seems like the people in power

1640
01:53:41,279 --> 01:53:46,000
it would behoove them to continue this this secrecy because

1641
01:53:46,039 --> 01:53:49,680
if it comes out and you get, whether they like

1642
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:52,960
it or not, full disclosure, heads are going to roll

1643
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,479
the public is going to be outraged by the amount

1644
01:53:56,520 --> 01:53:59,800
of secrecy and as we mentioned earlier in the program,

1645
01:54:00,079 --> 01:54:03,079
amount of money that our taxes are going towards these

1646
01:54:03,119 --> 01:54:06,359
black budget programs that are in no way, shape or

1647
01:54:06,399 --> 01:54:09,399
form helping the average American citizen at all.

1648
01:54:10,039 --> 01:54:14,880
Speaker 2: You know, you know all of the cost overruns for many,

1649
01:54:14,920 --> 01:54:22,319
many authorized programs. They have also not only the authorized

1650
01:54:22,479 --> 01:54:25,279
budgets for the black budget programs, but a lot of

1651
01:54:25,319 --> 01:54:29,439
the cost overruns for legitimate projects have been siphoned off.

1652
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:34,319
That was why there were overruns. And so you know,

1653
01:54:34,439 --> 01:54:37,319
the amounts of money that have gone into this stuff

1654
01:54:37,399 --> 01:54:40,199
is in the trillions. There's just no question about it.

1655
01:54:40,720 --> 01:54:44,239
As matter of fact, I think that this I can't

1656
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:47,279
swear to you. I think I heard it, but that

1657
01:54:47,600 --> 01:54:52,920
the Pentagon can't account for a couple of trillion dollars

1658
01:54:52,199 --> 01:54:57,319
and their budgets over the last many years, you know,

1659
01:54:57,359 --> 01:54:59,439
when they tried to do an accounting of it. So

1660
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:03,319
you can just bet where a lot of that went.

1661
01:55:04,199 --> 01:55:09,079
But no, I mean, I think immediately people would say,

1662
01:55:09,640 --> 01:55:13,000
why should I pay taxes? You can't you can't protect us.

1663
01:55:13,039 --> 01:55:17,239
You think you can't control the skies? Uh, you know,

1664
01:55:18,199 --> 01:55:21,199
we're not at the top of the food chain. I mean,

1665
01:55:22,199 --> 01:55:25,439
it would just disrupt everything until.

1666
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:27,800
Speaker 6: That.

1667
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:32,399
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't tell you the number of rumors

1668
01:55:32,439 --> 01:55:38,640
and things that I get from people, and I think, oh,

1669
01:55:39,079 --> 01:55:42,680
jade Helm is to take over, you know, the martial law.

1670
01:55:43,680 --> 01:55:47,399
When the pope discloses the UFOs, they're going to lock

1671
01:55:47,479 --> 01:55:50,560
everything down because people will go nuts and whatnot. So

1672
01:55:52,399 --> 01:55:55,560
you know, Uh, anyway, Look, I hate to get off

1673
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:57,800
in the weeds like this because it's a very serious

1674
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:05,319
subject and I could have written another one hundred and

1675
01:56:05,319 --> 01:56:09,840
fifty pages easily. But I think the message that I've

1676
01:56:10,159 --> 01:56:16,920
that I deliver is in a entertaining and educational form.

1677
01:56:16,960 --> 01:56:21,800
I think that veteran eufologists and people who just love

1678
01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:25,119
a good good conspiracy story, a good adventure story, good

1679
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:31,800
detective story, I think they'll find it enjoyable aside from,

1680
01:56:32,199 --> 01:56:38,000
you know, any aspects of the Stephenville event. And I

1681
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:41,199
think that's what really finally prompted me to, you know,

1682
01:56:41,279 --> 01:56:44,840
put it all in writing, is that I think it's

1683
01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:48,199
something that everybody will like and enjoy. Unfortunately, we've gotten

1684
01:56:48,199 --> 01:56:54,399
some good plugs from Whitley Strieber, Texas Monthly magazine, Jim

1685
01:56:54,479 --> 01:56:59,159
Mars Doctor Rita Louise. Anyone who has reviewed it as

1686
01:57:00,560 --> 01:57:03,760
has really enjoyed it. And I must say, I think

1687
01:57:03,800 --> 01:57:07,000
one of the biggest impediments to your fologists buying it

1688
01:57:07,039 --> 01:57:10,880
is they're going to think, oh, I already know that story.

1689
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:15,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the tagline we came up on the advertising.

1690
01:57:15,239 --> 01:57:17,680
You think you know the story, Think again.

1691
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:21,439
Speaker 2: Think again, because it doesn't even start out the way

1692
01:57:21,479 --> 01:57:22,039
you would think.

1693
01:57:22,119 --> 01:57:24,920
Speaker 1: And so well, we are running up on a hard

1694
01:57:25,439 --> 01:57:28,319
the end of the hour here. So Ken, I want

1695
01:57:28,319 --> 01:57:29,920
to thank you for coming on the show. We just

1696
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:34,560
want to mention that Ken's book, Mark Slade Investigates The

1697
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:41,319
Stevenville UFO will be launched next week next Wednesday, March

1698
01:57:41,399 --> 01:57:46,720
twenty seventh, and it will be available on online on

1699
01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:51,159
Amazon dot com, on our Glanettie website at Glanettie dot

1700
01:57:51,199 --> 01:57:55,399
com and will very soon be hopefully we're working to

1701
01:57:55,399 --> 01:57:59,800
get that in Barnes and Noble, Waterstones and wh Smiths

1702
01:58:00,039 --> 01:58:03,239
in the UK and other major bookstores around the country.

1703
01:58:03,279 --> 01:58:05,520
So keep a look out for it, and we are

1704
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:07,680
taking pre sale copies of it right now.

1705
01:58:08,079 --> 01:58:11,640
Speaker 2: So, hey, Mark, I'd like to plug my own website.

1706
01:58:11,680 --> 01:58:14,119
We're going to have a few books available there for

1707
01:58:14,520 --> 01:58:19,800
autograph copies at epic voyagers dot com. That's E P

1708
01:58:20,159 --> 01:58:23,680
I C B O Y A G E R S

1709
01:58:24,279 --> 01:58:29,399
dot com, so a few autograph copies will be available there.

1710
01:58:29,600 --> 01:58:34,239
And I appreciate the interview tonight, Mark, I enjoyed it well.

1711
01:58:34,279 --> 01:58:36,439
Speaker 1: Thank you for very much for coming on the program.

1712
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:39,399
Good luck with the book, hope it really sells well

1713
01:58:39,439 --> 01:58:42,319
for you and everybody. I do encourage you to get

1714
01:58:42,359 --> 01:58:45,560
this book. It really is not only just very entertaining

1715
01:58:45,600 --> 01:58:49,079
to read, but I'm very eye opening as well. Ken.

1716
01:58:49,119 --> 01:58:51,680
Thank you very much for your time tonight, and we'll

1717
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:52,960
have to have you back on sometime.

1718
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:57,079
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, Irene, thank you Mark. Yeah, thank

1719
01:58:57,119 --> 01:58:58,800
you Ken. It's something so.

1720
01:58:58,920 --> 01:59:01,039
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody for listen. Listening to another edition of

1721
01:59:01,159 --> 01:59:05,319
Unknown Origins Radio Tune in next Thursday night at eight

1722
01:59:05,359 --> 01:59:09,319
pm Eastern Standard Time here on the Dark Matter Radio Network.

1723
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:11,560
Have a great week. We'll catch you all next time.