WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:06.480 You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. 2 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:10.160 For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to 3 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:12.720 ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. 4 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.519 Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty five. 5 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:19.559 Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep 6 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:24.399 breath and try again. KT Whitten broadcasting from a dark, 7 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:26.679 windowless room in Hollywood. 8 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:28.359 When we really should be working on that next draft. 9 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:32.679 It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and 10 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:35.159 business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your 11 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:36.640 screenplay bulletproof. 12 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:42.119 And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another 13 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.039 episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. 14 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:46.000 I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. 15 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:50.719 Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. 16 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:51.159 Now. 17 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:56.159 Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses 18 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.159 on the kind of project you are in the goals 19 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:01.600 of the project you are, so we actually break it 20 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:05.159 down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, and 21 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:07.920 studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a 22 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.400 reader that's used to reading temp pole movies when your 23 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:12.640 movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand 24 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:15.239 dollars and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof 25 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:18.879 script coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, 26 00:01:19.239 --> 00:01:24.519 wm E, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, 27 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:27.280 and many many more. So if you need your screenplay 28 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:32.079 or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over 29 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:37.480 to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host 30 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:39.040 Dave Bullets. 31 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:42.200 Our next guest. We talk a lot about team building 32 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.680 and how do you find those reliable people, how do 33 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:47.000 you find people that you know you can collaborate with, 34 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.400 you know, And we also talk a lot about resource 35 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.319 based film making, you know, aka the Rodriguez List, because 36 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.719 you shouldn't make no if you're going to make a film. 37 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.599 I'm not talking about a student film. If you're going 38 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.480 to make a film nowadays, and you know you don't 39 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.319 have a bunch of money in the bank, you know, 40 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.079 you're not gonna be able to find some VC who's 41 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:08.960 just gonna, you know, money, drop a million dollars in 42 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:12.319 your bank account. What you should do is, you know, 43 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:15.199 use what resources you have to make a film. Don't 44 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:19.120 make a colossal space movie or some action movie like 45 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:23.360 a Lah John Wu, it's just gonna end up blowing 46 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:25.319 up in your face. And I and take it from 47 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:28.199 personal experience, it has blown up in my face before 48 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.599 when I've tried to just shoot for the moon and 49 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:33.840 you end up with a with a half done movie 50 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.400 that the effects don't look good enough. You know, a 51 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.960 movie that comes to mind is Primer. If you've ever 52 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.479 seen Primer, you know, it's a it's a whole movie 53 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.199 about time travel and the guy shot at Shane Kruz 54 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:48.439 shot it for like seven thousand dollars, and it's it's 55 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:52.039 very well done. It's a very cerebral movie. But it 56 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:53.919 just shows what you can do with the right resources 57 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:56.759 and the right script. But speak of the right resources 58 00:02:56.800 --> 00:02:59.479 and the right script. You know, my next guest, we're 59 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:01.120 gonna be talking about just that. We're gonna be talking 60 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:04.080 about all of this stuff. And it is a phenomenal 61 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:09.840 phenomenal for conversation with guests. Evan Kid, Hey, Evan, thanks 62 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:10.639 off coming on the show. 63 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:12.960 Hey, thanks for having me Man, Hey. 64 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.319 My pleasure. Evan. You know, it's a question I always 65 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:18.560 ask everybody. It's a question I I just always begin 66 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.719 every interview with and that question is Evan, what got 67 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:23.199 you started in the film industry. 68 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:27.400 I think just a love of the craft of cinema. 69 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:30.080 You know, It's it's that simple for me, as you know, 70 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:32.759 the other filmmakers have said this before, but you know, 71 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:35.039 I'm really no different. Like I grew up around it. 72 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:38.680 We watched a lot of movies in my house growing up, 73 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:41.719 and it was kind of the default. If something wasn't 74 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:43.960 going on, you know, parents would put on a movie, 75 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:45.599 we'd watch it, and I just kind of grew up 76 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.240 in that culture. You know. I ended up stealing my 77 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:50.479 dad's VHS camera a lot of times when I was 78 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.159 like three and four years old, and I would you 79 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.240 know shoot stuff around the house and the pets and 80 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:56.759 you know, stuff around the neighborhood. So it kind of 81 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.360 just grew really naturally. And then when I went, you 82 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.360 know into high school, there was like this little uh, 83 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.240 you know, film in the morning announcements class, which was 84 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:08.599 really cut and dry, but gave you access to you know, 85 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:11.000 tripods and editing software and stuff like that. So I 86 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:13.919 would kind of use that after hours and do what 87 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:16.160 I wanted, and I thought that was cool. And then 88 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:18.199 that was around the time YouTube is really taking off. 89 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:19.920 And so you know, I think all those things kind 90 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.600 of gelled together to propel me into you know, pursuing 91 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:25.240 it once I got to college and kind of from 92 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:28.120 there it's been history. So it's you know, been pretty natural. 93 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:31.480 But I think it's also been a direct correlation to how, 94 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.399 you know, over the years, technology has really allowed more 95 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:37.920 people into the film business. You know, I've never had 96 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:39.920 a huge inkling to just go and direct you know, 97 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.879 Avengers five or whatever. For me, it's always just been 98 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.480 about telling a compelling story with you know, resources around me, 99 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.519 whether that be you know, cast and crew or just 100 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:50.439 you know the technology that you know, so many of 101 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:51.240 us have access to. 102 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:54.959 Yeah, you know, very true. And you know I remember 103 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.439 those big VHS cameras. 104 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:56.680 Yeah. 105 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.000 See see you and I are kind of sort of 106 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:01.680 around the same age, I I mean, but you know, 107 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:03.399 and sometimes some of my guests are a little bit 108 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:06.319 older than I am, so you know, they didn't have that, 109 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:07.959 They had this like the Super Ring. Hey, that's what 110 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:09.959 they remember when they were a kid, you know. And 111 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:11.720 and guys like us, we had the you know those 112 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:13.920 big old it looks like a big boom box you 113 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.000 put on your shoulder. You couldn't use it for more 114 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.839 than five minutes or you know, you'd kill your back 115 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:20.439 and your neck, and you know, it looked like a 116 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:23.120 bazooka and uh, you know, and then now they went 117 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.399 to many DV but yeah, you know, I remember when 118 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:27.680 YouTube first was taking off in like two thousand and four, 119 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:30.040 two thousand and five. Yeah, and I remember just being 120 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:31.839 blown away. And I remember, you know, people were just 121 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:33.959 putting up different stuff and it was still on the 122 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:36.759 you know, nobody really talked about it until a few 123 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:38.000 years later, and then all of a sudden, it was 124 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:39.680 like this freaking juggernaut exactly. 125 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:42.319 I mean, I remember when it first, you know, launched off. 126 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.959 I was like, we can put online video on the Internet. 127 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.480 And you know, at that time, my parents believe it 128 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:49.079 not still a dial up, so that concept was in 129 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:51.560 like two thousand and four, super foreign to me. Uh 130 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:54.199 And so you know, I would only watch YouTube literally 131 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:56.560 at school, and we weren't even supposed to do that. 132 00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:58.839 So you know, for me, it was like technology was 133 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.560 just slowly emerging out of the shell. And then, you know, 134 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:04.279 give it a few months, you know, most everyone including 135 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.040 my family, got you know, DSL and faster internet, and 136 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.399 everything kind of started catching up to what you could do. 137 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.279 And for me that was extremely exciting. And I remember 138 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.399 thinking I could just make a movie and put it 139 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.000 on YouTube, like, holy shit, that's crazy, like and you know, 140 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:22.399 for me that didn't even seem within the realm of possibility. 141 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:24.240 But you know, like I was saying, given a little 142 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:26.839 bit of technology, I think that's half the reason I'm 143 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.240 able to do what I do and so many others. 144 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:32.360 Yeah, totally agree. And you know, I actually want to 145 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:34.600 get into that too, about you know, making your film 146 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:36.800 Son of Clowns and you know, working with all the 147 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:38.959 resources you have around you. But I wanted to ask 148 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:40.560 really quickly, did you go to a film school? 149 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.600 I did. Yeah, I went to East Carolina University a 150 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:46.160 couple of years ago. I graduated from that in Greenville, 151 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.519 North Carolina. And it was a great program. I really 152 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:50.560 enjoyed it definitely taught me a lot. I think it 153 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:53.480 was a lot more of a technical program in terms 154 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:55.959 of how to operate a camera, cut your own stuff 155 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.720 like that than it was, you know, truly trying to 156 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.720 craft you know, screenplays. That there was screenwriting classes, but 157 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:03.959 I kind of think it geared more to that. So 158 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:05.680 I did a lot of learning on my own in 159 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.199 terms of you know, the story structure and all that. Like, 160 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.319 it was definitely there, but I think if you really 161 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.439 really wanted to get the full you know, breadth of it, 162 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:14.160 I would talk to my professors and they'd be like, 163 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.079 you know, here's this resource. You got to look at 164 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:17.759 it on your own hours just because it wasn't built 165 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:20.279 into every part of the curriculum, but I would definitely 166 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:22.519 recommend it. It was a great program and really cut my 167 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:25.199 teeth there for sure. You know, met a lot of 168 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:27.000 the people who would end up helping me make Son 169 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:29.839 of Clowns and other films like that. But yeah, I 170 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:32.560 definitely think that is you know important, and you know, 171 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.480 at the very least, it gave me the know how 172 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:38.040 because I also do a lot of documentary work and 173 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:40.360 so a lot of designs in those situations, I don't 174 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:42.000 have as big of a crew as I would, you know, 175 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.560 on my narrative stuff, and like you know, shooting something 176 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.360 last last month and I was literally the only crew member, 177 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:50.680 and it was kind of by design, Like if I 178 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:52.759 really dug around, I could have you know, probably got 179 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:55.399 a camera operator or sound designer stuff like that, but 180 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:59.079 it was just such a you know, sporadic opportunity. I 181 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:02.240 didn't have time, and so in those occasions, I'm really 182 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.399 glad I went to film school because otherwise I don't 183 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.160 know if I'd know how to operate a camera, run sound, 184 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:08.800 you know, kind of do all those technical things. 185 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:12.120 So yeah, you know, that's a question I usually ask. 186 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:15.000 You know, certain people have come on and they said, Dave, 187 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:17.240 film school is a waste of time. Some people have 188 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:19.480 come on and said, hey, film school was phenomenal to me, 189 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:21.759 and you know, and it's it's something I always go 190 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:24.800 back to because you know, our experience is your perception 191 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:27.399 equals reality, and you know, if your perception of if 192 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.279 something is you know, skewed or something is perception, if 193 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.000 something is hey listen, my experience was terrible, you know, 194 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.360 and my perception of it is it was totally worthless, 195 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:36.480 you know it. 196 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:38.320 You know, So I just ask. 197 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:39.360 People to be honest, you know what I mean, and 198 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.240 if and and I always like hearing people's different experiences. 199 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:45.000 I know, my listeners like hearing different people's experiences about 200 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.679 this stuff because I think it's that's critical, you know 201 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:49.960 what I mean. And it's sort of something you've touched 202 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:52.279 on with what you just said is also something critical, 203 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.440 and that is building a team. And I always ask people, 204 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:55.759 you know, how did you build your team? You know, 205 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:57.960 where does your where did you guys meet? Uh, you know, 206 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:00.600 and and you met your whole team through film school? 207 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.159 Yeah, most of them. I did meet a lot of them, 208 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.320 a couple of folks after the fact, but you know, 209 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.399 I think it was that network that really makes film 210 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:11.600 school and valuable. You know, I've heard a lot of 211 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:13.480 people say you don't need film school. I've heard a 212 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:15.279 lot of people say, oh, yeah, you got to do it, 213 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.480 or else you're screwed. I kind of fall in the 214 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:19.600 middle of the road thinking, you know, obviously I'm a 215 00:09:19.639 --> 00:09:21.440 product of a film school and I went to one. 216 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:23.279 But at the same time, it was a film school 217 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:26.039 that I think, really, you know, it kind of forced 218 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:27.879 me to do a lot of outside learning outside of 219 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:29.639 the program, So I think it kind of good, got 220 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:32.240 a good breadth of you know, a lot of different options, 221 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:35.200 you know, Like I said, I there's this story I 222 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.559 always tell I made this documentary called spaz Out a 223 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:40.960 couple of years ago, and the project was, you know, 224 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.759 out of this documentary class I was taking an undergrad 225 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.120 and basically you had to make this ten minute documentary 226 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:48.679 over the course of about two months, and it was 227 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:50.720 the story, you know I was telling was about this 228 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:53.240 underground punk groy music scene and there was you know, 229 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:56.159 doing shows out of this warehouse. It was super legal, 230 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:57.759 but there was a lot of you know, heart in 231 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.759 the you know, people trying to make music happen. 232 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.799 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 233 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:08.720 and now back to the show. 234 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.559 And to me, it felt like a bigger story. So I, 235 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:14.840 you know, wanted to make something longer. And we're talking 236 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:16.639 to my professor and he was like, why do you 237 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:18.200 want to make it a bigger story? And I was like, 238 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:19.960 just because I feel like that's the best way to 239 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:21.840 tell it. And he was like, if that's the reason, 240 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:25.080 then go for it. And you know, I think that 241 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.720 has stayed with me because a lot of times I 242 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:31.279 want to make projects that maybe aren't originally thought of 243 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:33.519 or aren't originally you know in the you know, quote 244 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.559 unquote guidelines of something. And I think film school is 245 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:39.159 a you know, great launching pad. So you know, I 246 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:41.080 guess I got a little off track, but I would say, 247 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:44.159 you know, coming back around, you know, I think it 248 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:46.440 really depends for each person. Like if you are going 249 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.279 to go into extreme debt and you know, you know, 250 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:51.960 it might kind of mess up your trajectory for the 251 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:53.919 next couple of years. And you're pretty self taught, you 252 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:56.159 watch YouTube videos and stuff like that, you may not 253 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:59.919 need that kind of technical guidance. But you know, again, 254 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:02.080 and if you want the resources and the crew base 255 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:04.639 and the you know, internships and stuff like that, you're 256 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:06.720 not going to get that through YouTube tutorials. So I 257 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:09.360 think it really is kind of something each person needs 258 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:10.240 to weigh individually. 259 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.840 Yeah, that's that's very true. A friend of mine, you know, 260 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:16.279 he went to UH I think he went to n 261 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:19.720 YU and you know, Morton Scrissese comes in to talk 262 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:22.120 to a class like once a semester or whatever, and 263 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:23.879 you know, when he walked in, he was like, holy shit, 264 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.639 Mortin Scissegy just walked in the right and and was like, Hey, 265 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:29.600 everybody want to talk about film And it's like, who's 266 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.000 gonna Who's gonna say no? First off? And you know 267 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.080 what I mean, but it's uh, but it's that, you know, 268 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.639 that's the benefit he got from going to n YU 269 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:38.440 or you know, and if you go to USC I 270 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.000 think Steven Spielberg comes in like once a semester as well. 271 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.159 Yeah, and I mean that's invaluable. I mean, if you're 272 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:44.919 able to get that, how do you pass it up? 273 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:45.440 Like you said? 274 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.679 Yeah, and but you know it's you know that. That's 275 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:50.240 what we want to talk about too, is you're building 276 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:53.279 your team, you know, and using those resources around you 277 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:55.759 to actually make your film. And I want to ask 278 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.240 you about building your team. So you know, Evan, when 279 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:01.279 you were building your team, I don't maybe it did, 280 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.600 maybe you didn't, But I don't know if anybody really 281 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:05.320 goes out with that mindset of, Hey, you know what 282 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.679 I'm going to go today, look for a team that 283 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:10.559 I could put together. I think it sort of happens naturally. 284 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.559 It happens organically, and eventually, you know, something clicks in 285 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:14.879 your mind where you go, hey, I could work with 286 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:17.279 this person as a producer, you know what I mean? 287 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.720 And I think you know, that's how people sort of 288 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:22.679 build teams, as I found doing this podcast and even 289 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:26.159 my own experiences in making stuff. So you know, what 290 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.879 are some of the qualities Evan, that you find with 291 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.320 your team that that when you were sort of putting 292 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:33.399 them together, when when you you know, May May May 293 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:35.440 put that team together to make a Son of Clowns. 294 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.840 Your team is your backbone, and you are pretty much 295 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.799 as made as your team is made, I guess I 296 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.759 would say. And so you know, it's like a sports team. 297 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:47.919 You're the coach, but you want to pick your players. 298 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.360 And when you're making something like the way we made 299 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.919 my feature film Son of Clowns, for example, you know, 300 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:57.200 that was the biggest crew I've ever you know, had 301 00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:00.200 the opportunity to work with up to this point. And 302 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:02.200 you know, certain days were better than others. You know, 303 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.200 certain days we'd have very small crew, like six seven people. 304 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:08.039 Other days we'd have a bigger crew, a lot of pas, 305 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:12.120 you know, probably fifteen twenty. And so most everyone in 306 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.639 that crew worked for free. No one made money. And 307 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.480 that's the thing that's tricky, because when you're in micro 308 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:23.480 budget cinema, like, no one cares. Before I made the film, 309 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:25.639 no one cared if I made Some of Clowns. I 310 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:27.559 was the only person that cared, you know, the actors 311 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:29.720 and the crew, but no one else cares. And that's 312 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:33.360 the kind of rough truth that you need to get around, 313 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.440 is that you know, when you're making your micro budget, 314 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.600 no one cares. And once you kind of accept that 315 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:40.679 and once you say, okay, people will care once we 316 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:42.879 make it. But like, up until this point, you don't 317 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.919 have investors. You're really bankrolling on your own credit card, 318 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.879 which is what I did. Basically, my mentality was fine 319 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.879 people who want to a work because at that time 320 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:55.799 the North Carolina film incentives just crashed because of some 321 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.320 stupid politics and so a lot of people were out 322 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:00.600 of jobs and a lot of people we're kind of 323 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.639 sitting around anyway. So I was like, well, instead of 324 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.120 sitting around, let's all do something. You know. I took 325 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:06.600 a hit from that, and a lot of other people 326 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:08.840 did because by day I do a lot of crew work, 327 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.879 you know, ac stuff like that, and so you know, 328 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.919 for me, it was kind of a situation where let's 329 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:16.960 make the best out of, you know, something that sucks. 330 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.320 And then you know, I would say on the second thing, 331 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:23.840 when you find crew that are passionate, grab those people 332 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:26.399 because those are the people you want with you on 333 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:29.679 the battlefield, so to speak. Those people will you know, 334 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.879 stay the extra hour, Those people won't mind if you 335 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:34.879 do lunch an hour or two late. You know, those 336 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:36.840 people really just want to get your story. And uh, 337 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:40.639 I'm a big believer in you know, quote unquote working 338 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.080 for free. Yeah, no one got paid. I definitely didn't 339 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:44.360 get paid. I went to the Red but you know, 340 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.600 it was my movie, so I totally understand that. But 341 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.399 every other aspect of this production, I said, let me 342 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.480 not make it so it costs people money. Okay, So 343 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.320 let me fill up the gas tanks, let me get 344 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:57.840 all their meals covered, you know, let me give them 345 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:01.879 something great for their real Let me actually publicize this film, 346 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:04.279 because I think the thing that happens and why a 347 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:06.919 lot of people are hesitant to do free work is 348 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.799 because they've been burned in the past. And I've had 349 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.519 it happen to me when you you know, work on 350 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.120 something for free. I think a lot of times there's 351 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.320 this kind of you know, hesitant notion, which I totally understand. 352 00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:19.759 Like I do a lot of crew work for a living. 353 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.080 That's how I make a lot of my money. And 354 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.399 for me, like, I will work on a free project, 355 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:27.799 but I have to know where it's going. Will it 356 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:29.960 be sent out to festivals? Because the last thing anyone 357 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.639 wants is to work on a film and just have 358 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:33.679 it get thrown up on YouTube, get about one hundred 359 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.759 videos and then no one cares. You know, people want 360 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:38.399 to know they're part of a project that's going to 361 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.200 at least try to go somewhere. Like everyone knows it's 362 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.279 not guaranteed, but at the very end of the day, 363 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:45.279 there has to be some effort being made. So I 364 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:47.399 tried to be as transparent about that possible with like, 365 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:49.000 you know, the whole cast and crew. You know, I 366 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.159 sent them emails for months and months after the fact. 367 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:53.639 You know, we got into this film festival. We're going 368 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.360 to submit here, you know, stuff like that, you know, 369 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:58.919 give everyone their footage promptly so they can put it 370 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.200 on a reel that you know, that kind of thing. 371 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.240 Just just be a decent person. You know, if you 372 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.759 can't pay people, try to, you know, make all the 373 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:08.639 rest of the filmmakers who don't have a lot of 374 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:09.399 money look good. 375 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:13.440 Yeah, and you know that That's something I agree with too, 376 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:15.080 is I think people have been burned in the past 377 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.799 by free work and it's sort of you know, maybe 378 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.080 they've worked for free for you know, a person and 379 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:22.559 it's never been reciprocating, so they kind of say, you know, 380 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:24.360 I I you know, now I'm in the hole now, 381 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:27.240 so to speak. And you know, I got into a 382 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:29.200 friend of mine and actually teaches you know, film at 383 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:30.679 a high school, and he and I had gotten this 384 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.399 whole thing before because we were talking about free work 385 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.440 and you know, some people say do it, some people 386 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:40.440 say don't do it, and basically we all The thing 387 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:41.879 that we have a problem with was when I was 388 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.639 making my student front films, I said, you know, I 389 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.679 need some help, and some people offer to work for free. Well, 390 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.759 they would come on and then they would sort of 391 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:52.559 act like they don't need to be professional or act 392 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.240 like they need to actually do their job the right way, 393 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:57.639 because hey, you're not paying me anything, so what the 394 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:58.440 hell's the difference. 395 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.919 Yeah, And I think that's the reason a lot of 396 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.119 these people have bad experiences is because there's a lack 397 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.720 of professionality on some free sets. I'm not going to 398 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.279 say all, but you know, the way I coordinated my set, 399 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.319 I would say, and a lot of people told me 400 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.680 it ran very professionally, and a lot of people said 401 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.480