Speaker 1: Imagine driving home right after sundown. Okay, you are a
twenty two year old forestry worker and you are just
absolutely bone tire.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just completely drained exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've had this brutal, back breaking day of
clearing heavy brush and hauling timber, and it is freezing
cold out, your muscles ache with that deep lactic acid burn.
The radio in the dash is probably humming some low,
staticky country.
Speaker 2: Tomb just trying to stay await.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you are staring out the window, looking forward
to absolutely nothing more than a hot, heavy meal.
Speaker 2: In a warm bed, the simple things.
Speaker 1: Right, You're huddled in the back of this beaten up
crew truck and it's bouncing violently along a desolate, deeply
rutted logging.
Speaker 2: Road, boxed in by the trees.
Speaker 1: Completely boxed in by dense, towering, seemingly endless pine trees.
The darkness out there is absolute.
Speaker 2: It's a very specific kind of isolation, it really is.
Speaker 1: And then you see something. It starts as just these faint,
unnatural glimmers of light leading through the thick branches, and
at first your exhausted brain just tries to rationalize it,
like maybe it's a reflection.
Speaker 2: Or a downed aircraft.
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, exactly. But the lights are entirely too high
up to be headlights from another vehicle on a ridge,
and they are far too localized, too deliberate to be
the setting sun.
Speaker 2: So something is definitely.
Speaker 1: Off, very off. Suddenly the truck rounds a bend, the
tree line breaks and you're looking at a clearly defined,
enormous metallic disc. Wow, and it is hovering completely silently
in the twilight sky. Just hang in there, Just hang
in there. Truck slams on the brakes. You step out
into the freezing air, drawn by this potent, intoxicating mixture
of adrenaline and pure primal.
Speaker 2: Curiosity, because you have to know what it is.
Speaker 1: You want a closer look. You actually need a closer look.
But as you take those first tentative steps onto the brush,
the air itself fundamentally changes.
Speaker 2: The episphere shifts.
Speaker 1: Yes, your crewmates, the ones still huddle in the terrified
safety of the truck. They would later describe a sound
that they didn't just hear with their ears.
Speaker 2: They felt it.
Speaker 1: They felt it vibrating deep within their bone marrow. It
was this low, oscillating hum that literally rattled the heavy
metal chassis of their vehicle. That is just incredible, and
then bam, an energy beam, blindingly bright and impossibly fast
hits you with the concussive kinetic force of a literal landmine.
Good lord, they feel a devastating, chest crushing physical blow,
and that is coupled in the exact same fraction of
a second with a massive paralyzing electric.
Speaker 2: Shock coursing through everything.
Speaker 1: Coursing through every single nerve ending in your body. You
are thrown backward through the air like a rag doll,
and then the world goes completely utterly black.
Speaker 2: It really remains one of the most visceral, highly documented
and heavily scrutinized accounts in the entire history of unexplained phenomenon.
Speaker 1: It absolutely does.
Speaker 2: I mean, the physical trauma inflicted, the sheer number of
terrified corroborating witnesses who fled the scene.
Speaker 1: Right his whole crew exactly.
Speaker 2: The overwhelming sensory overload of that singular moment in the woods.
It completely and violently shatters our standard, comfortable, everyday understanding
of reality.
Speaker 1: It really does.
Speaker 2: It takes everything we think we know about physics and
biology and just throws it out the window and more importantly,
it forces us to ask the terrifying question of what
exactly happens after the.
Speaker 1: Blackout exactly, and that is exactly where we are going.
Welcome everyone to Thrilling Threads.
Speaker 2: We are so incredibly glad you were sitting here with
us today.
Speaker 1: We really are. For those of you who might be
new to our discussions, our mission on this show is straightforward,
but expansive, very expansive. We took a massive stack of
fascinating source material. We're talking expert testimonies, historical data, heavily
researched accounts, and declassified files, and we relentlessly follow the threads.
Speaker 2: We pull up the frayed edges of the things you
thought you knew, the.
Speaker 1: Things you take for granted, and we see exactly where
the tapestry ravels, and man, we have an absolute mountain
of material to get through.
Speaker 2: We really do.
Speaker 1: We are talking about a stack of research that stands
from modern, deeply analyzed extraterrestrial encounters exactly like the one
I just described, right all the way back thousands of
years to ancient supposedly divine medical texts.
Speaker 2: Which is fascinating on its own.
Speaker 1: And it even bleeds down into the mind bending mathematical
theories of modern quantum physics.
Speaker 2: It covers so much ground.
Speaker 1: It does. We are exploring the threads to examine a
concept that has haunted humanity for millennia, and that concept
is shape shifting. Yeah, but we aren't talking about fairy
tales here. We are looking at whether this phenomenon is
a highly advanced, weaponized psychological trick.
Speaker 2: Or a literal, tangible biological manipulation of DNA right.
Speaker 1: Or perhaps even a mechanical gateway to entirely different dimensions
of existence.
Speaker 2: And I know that while the mere concept of shape
shifting might immediately conjure up image from comic books or fantasy.
Speaker 1: Novels for you or late night sci fi movies.
Speaker 2: Exactly, but the sheer volume of cross cultural, highly specific
accounts in the data demands a much more serious, rigorous,
and analytical approach.
Speaker 1: We have to look closer.
Speaker 2: We do. We aren't just looking at cultural folklore or
campfire ghost stories.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: We are looking at modern documented accounts back by seasoned professionals.
Speaker 1: People with decades of experience in law enforcement.
Speaker 2: Yes, alongside incredible theories from the scientific and theoretical physics community.
And we are cross referencing those with ancient historical texts
that document the seemingly impossible with clinical precisions.
Speaker 1: It's all connected.
Speaker 2: When you have this many wildly disparate sources, separated by
thousands of years of history and thousands of miles of geography,
yet all describing the exact same underlying mechanics of physical biological.
Speaker 1: Transformation, you have to pay attention.
Speaker 2: You have to look past the surface level. We have
to stop dismissing it as myth and start analyzing the
how and the why.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this, because to really understand the how
and the why, we have to go right back to
that twenty two year old forestry worker Travis Walton, right
back to the forest exactly. So we left him unconscious
on the fourth floor. He blacks out after being hit
by this concussive beam of energy, and when he finally
regains consciousness, he finds himself in an utterly terrifying claustrophobic.
Speaker 2: Situation, complete nightmare scenario.
Speaker 1: He wakes up lying on his back on some kind
of elevated metallic gurney or operating table. The air is heavy,
the lighting is strange.
Speaker 2: He's totally disoriented.
Speaker 1: Completely. He opens his eyes. His head is pounding, and
he is trying desperately to make sense of his surroundings,
and his vision clears to reveal that he's looking straight
into the face of a creature that is definitively, undeniably not.
Speaker 2: Human, not even close to human.
Speaker 1: No, he is surrounded by these beings, the ones commonly
described in euphology as Gray's right, and naturally, he absolutely.
Speaker 2: Flips out as anyone would right.
Speaker 1: He goes into full primal fighter flight mode. He panics,
He starts swinging, struggling, violently, just grabbing whatever he can
find to fight his way off this table.
Speaker 2: He is fighting for his life, he.
Speaker 1: Thinks he is. Yeah, And here is the crucial, bizarre
detail that changes everything. The Grays don't subdue him.
Speaker 2: They don't fight back at all.
Speaker 1: They don't immediately turn and leave the room. They just exit.
But then, almost immediately after the door closes, two human
looking entities walk right through that same.
Speaker 2: Door, beings that look completely indistinguishable from us. This is
the pivot point of the entire encounter, and it is
endlessly fascinating from a psychological and biological standpoint.
Speaker 1: It really is.
Speaker 2: Let's paint the picture for you of what Walton was
initially reacting to. When we talk about grays, the classical
description involves entities that are short, perhaps three to four
feet tall, right with pale, grayish skin, completely devoid of hair,
lacking distinct facial features like a pronounced nose or lips,
but possessing massive, bulbous heads and enormous, solid black, almond
shaped eyes.
Speaker 1: It's a terrifying image.
Speaker 2: It is to a human brain, which has evolved over
millions of years to specifically recognize and read micro expressions
on human faces, looking at a gray triggers an immediate, visceral,
Uncanny Valley response. It registers as a profound existential threat.
Speaker 1: Your brain just screams danger.
Speaker 2: Exactly. So Walton is in a state of primal, unadulterated terror,
fighting for his life against beings his brain cannot comprehend.
Speaker 1: And then they leave.
Speaker 2: The entities leave, and beings that look exactly like human
beings walk in. But according to the deep analysis from
researchers like Michael Salah and Nick Pope, who have spent
years dissepting these types of encounters, this wasn't a changing
of the guard. It wasn't a fortuitous rescue mission by
sympathetic spacefaring humanoids who just happen to be hanging out
on the same crap. This would be convenient, very convenient.
But the prevailing and frankly terrifying theory here is that
these weren't different aliens at all. They were the exact
same beings that had just left the room. Wow, But
they possessed the advanced biological technology to shape shift into
a human form, specifically to manage Walton's psychological state.
Speaker 1: They changed their bodies for him.
Speaker 2: They actively physically change their form just to calm him down.
Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, I'm struggling with this part a bit because
I have to play Devil's advocate for you listening at home. Here,
go for it. If we are talking about an incredibly
advanced interstellar or interdimensional species, right, beings.
Speaker 2: Capable of traversing the Cosmos, building anti gravity craft, and
shooting concussive energy beams. Yes, Why go through the immense,
highly complex biological effort of physically shape shifting just to
calm one guy down?
Speaker 1: It seems like a lot of work, exactly.
Speaker 2: Why not just use some kind of advanced airborne anesthesia
or you know, telepathy, just zap his brain and make
him go to sleep, right, physically altering your entire cellular structure. Sure,
just to play good cup seems incredibly inefficient, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: It's a fantastic question, and it's the exact right kind
of skepticism to apply here. Why the biological theater, Well,
if we look at the evolutionary psychology of it, an
induced chemical coma doesn't build compliance, It just incapacitates. I
see if these beings required Walton to be conscious, perhaps
for observation or to study his neurological responses without the
dampening effects of anesthesia.
Speaker 2: They needed him awake.
Speaker 1: They needed him awake but not. Combative telepathy or mind
control might work, but forcing a brain into submission could
taint the very psychological data they are trying to gather.
Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense. By presenting a human face,
they are hacking his biology through environmental stimuli rather than
chemical intervention.
Speaker 1: They're hacking him visually exactly.
Speaker 2: They are exploiting the fact that the human brains fusiform.
Speaker 1: Gyos, the facial recognition part.
Speaker 2: Yes, the part of the brain responsible for facial recognition.
It is hardwired to release calming neurotransmitter when it sees
a familiar, symmetrical human face in a moment of extreme isolation,
is so manipulative. It reveals a level of calculation that
is deeply unsettling. If an entity can alter its literal
physical form for the sole purpose of managing a human
being's stress.
Speaker 1: Response, it means they know us perfectly.
Speaker 2: It implies an intimate, mastery level knowledge of human psychology, neuroscience,
and biological triggers. They understand our hardwiring better than we do.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: They know precisely what comforts us, and they possess the
capability to weaponize that comfort. It's not just camouflage to
hide in a forest. It is dynamic camouflage, designed specifically
to manipulate human emotion and establish false, desperate trust.
Speaker 1: And what's wild is that, according to Walton's own account,
even this incredibly advanced biological theater didn't entirely work.
Speaker 2: It wasn't perfect.
Speaker 1: No, he says, he stared at these human looking beings,
and while the initial panic subsided a bit, he slowly
started having serious creeping misgivings.
Speaker 2: He knew something was wrong, something was off.
Speaker 1: The mannerisms, the eyes, the lack of verbal communication, he
started to realize that these weren't a rescue party at all.
Speaker 2: He saw through the disguise.
Speaker 1: He realized it was a deception. And right does that
realization hit him? Right as his heart rate probably started
spiking again. They simply put a mask over his face
and he blacked out a second time. Plan b Right,
It's like they realized the shape shifting trick was failing,
so they finally resorted to the chemical off switch.
Speaker 2: Anyway, they had to pivot.
Speaker 1: And, according to the research for Michael Salah, Walton's account
is far from isolated. Sala's data points out that there
are numerous highly detailed stories from other individuals across the
globe who have experienced strikingly similar phenomena a pattern. It is.
They described the exact same pattern of seeing terrifying non
human entities that step out of sight and are suddenly
replaced by beings that look entirely perfectly human. It's a recurring,
documented operational tactic, which is a terrifying thought which brings
us to a data point that genuinely made me laugh
out loud, but then immediately gave me the chills when
I really thought about it.
Speaker 2: Oh, the polling data.
Speaker 1: Yes. In twenty thirteen, Public Policy Polling released a massive
data set showing that twelve million Americans genuinely firmly believe
that shape shifting beings live among us right now. Twelve million,
twelve million. I mean, you have to think about that
next time you are standing in line at the.
Speaker 2: Grocery store, we're sitting in traffic, or.
Speaker 1: A painfully boring PTA meeting. It really makes you look
at your neighbors differently, doesn't it. It really does you start
wondering if the guy across the street, the one whose
lawn is always a little too perfectly manicured, isn't just
a dedicated landscaper, right, but is actually a highly advanced
entity just trying to perfectly mimic mundane suburban human behavior. Right.
Speaker 2: It's easy to picture the guy with the perfect grass
and the slightly stiff wave and think definitely an alien exactly.
It sounds humorous when you frame it around the mundane
true realities of suburban life, but joking aside. Researchers like
Fenton and Nick Pope take this underlying concept incredibly seriously.
Speaker 1: They really do.
Speaker 2: They propose a framework that is entirely grounded and strategic logic,
and frankly it is chilling. They refer to this as
the fifth column theory.
Speaker 1: The fifth column, yes for you listening.
Speaker 2: A fifth column is a traditional military and political term.
It refers to a clandestine group or faction of subversive
agents who attempt to undermine a nation's solidarity.
Speaker 1: From within, from the inside out.
Speaker 2: Fenton and Pope suggest that there might be a class
of entities currently on our world capable of representing themselves
as humans at will, acting as a biological fifth column.
Speaker 1: Yes, the silent invasion theory, because culturally, we have been
completely conditioned by Hollywood to imagine an alien invasion as
this massive, overt, violently noisy display of technological superiority.
Speaker 2: The big, dramatic entrance.
Speaker 1: We expect, the giant, miles wide saucers hovering menacingly over
major cities, casting massive.
Speaker 2: Shadows Independence Day style exactly.
Speaker 1: We expect, the green laser beams blowing up historical landmarks,
the military jets dogfighting in the sky, the sheer, explosive
spectacle of it. All Right, the Pope asked us to
step back and reconsider what actual disclosure or invasion looks
like from the perspective of a vastly superior intelligence.
Speaker 2: Because why would they do that?
Speaker 1: Right? What if it isn't an assault? What if it
is a quiet, methodical infiltration. I mean, it's the ultimate
trojan horse strategy.
Speaker 2: It makes complete strategic sense.
Speaker 1: Why bother blowing up the White House or vaporizing the
military when you can just shope, shift into a perfectly
tailored human suit.
Speaker 2: Walk confidently right through the front.
Speaker 1: Doors, and slowly get your people elected or appointed into
positions of immense global power over the course of several decades.
It's a terrifyingly elegant strategy.
Speaker 2: Elegance is exactly the right word for it. Let's analyze
it strictly from a strategic resource management standpoint. A covert
biological infiltration is vastly superior to allowed military assault in
almost every conceivable metric. So well, an overt assault unifies
the target species against you. It creates immediate, desperate global resistance.
It destroys the very infrastructure and resources you might be
coming to conquer.
Speaker 1: That's true, you'd ruin the planet you're trying to take exactly.
Speaker 2: But infiltration it requires a fraction of the resources. It
generates absolutely zero immediate resistance because the host civilization doesn't
even know they are under.
Speaker 1: Attack, we'd be totally blind to it.
Speaker 2: It allows the infiltrating force to manipulate the global economy,
military deployments, and environmental policies of the host civilization from
the inside out. Wow, essentially making humanity engineer its own subjugation.
Nick Pope makes the sobering point that an entity utilizing
this biological technology could walk right past you on.
Speaker 1: The sidewalk, it could be anywhere.
Speaker 2: They could brush shoulders with you on a crowded subway car,
that could be handing you your coffee, and you would
be entirely, blissfully oblivious.
Speaker 1: That is so creepy to think about.
Speaker 2: If we accept the premise that shape shifting is a
tangible reality, then the clear comforting boundary between us and
them is completely erased.
Speaker 1: Line is gone.
Speaker 2: The threat isn't lurking in the dark expanse of the sky.
The threat is the person sitting in the cubicle next
to yours.
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets really interesting, though, because if we
entertain the idea that these entities are already here, walking
around in human form, the immediate next questions have to be.
Speaker 2: How did they get here?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah? How do they physically get here? And where
do they actually come from? Because if they aren't flying
down in shiny metal space ships that are radar and track,
what is the delivery mechanism?
Speaker 2: We have to look at alternate modes of travel, right, and.
Speaker 1: To explore that thread, we have to travel away from
the dense pine forests of Arizona and the crowded city
subways and we head to a very specific, highly secure,
and deeply strange, five hundred acre expanse of land in
the Yuina Basin of Utah Ah Yeah, a place widely
known in all the research as Skinwalker Ranch, the epicenter,
the absolute epicenter. For anyone who might not be familiar
with every detail of this location, Skinwalker Ranch is considered
the undisputed epicenter of high strangeness on planet Earth.
Speaker 2: I was out of doubt.
Speaker 1: According to decades of data, government studies and private research.
Almost any paranormal or anomalous activity you can possibly imagine
has allegedly happened within the borders of this ranch.
Speaker 2: It's a hot spot for everything.
Speaker 1: We are talking about, massive UFO sightings, violent and destructive
poultergeist activity. The sudden appearances of extinct prehistoric beasts roaming
the sage brush, and the shape shifting and of course
sightings of terrifying shape shifting monsters. But the one consistent,
maddening detail across all these wildly bizarre.
Speaker 2: Reports, the delivery method.
Speaker 1: Yes, the thread that ties all this chaos together is
how these things arrive. These entities and creatures don't hike
in from the surrounding mountains. They don't land in ships
that leave burn marks. According to the observers, they appear suddenly,
completely out of thin air.
Speaker 2: And this is precisely where we transition from discussing the
mechanics of biological manipulation to the much larger and much
more profound mechanics of space time itself.
Speaker 1: It's a big jump.
Speaker 2: It is the phenomena documented at Skinwalker Ranch challenge the
very foundational laws of how we perceive physical boundaries and reality.
Investigative journalist George.
Speaker 1: Knapp, he's done amazing work on this.
Speaker 2: He really has. He spent years extensively covering the heavily guarded,
often top secret, and heavily funded scientific activities at the Ranch,
and he documented an encounter that perfectly chillingly illustrates this mechanism.
Speaker 1: Oh the tunnel story.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it is vital to note that we aren't
talking about anecdotal campfire stories from frightened teenagers here. NAP's
account involves two highly credential PhD level scientists who were
actively employed to study the ranch using Milli Terry great hardware.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love this specific account because it is just
so incredibly detailed. So I want you to picture this.
It is the dead of night out in the Utah Basin.
The darkness is absolute.
Speaker 2: Very isolated.
Speaker 1: These two highly trained, rigorously skeptical scientists are out in
the field doing their job. They are stationed up on
a high ridge looking down at the middle homestead of
the ranch, and they are sweeping the pitch black landscape
using advanced, highly sensitive infrared equipment to monitor the area
for heat.
Speaker 2: Signatures, looking for anything unusual.
Speaker 1: Suddenly, one of the scientists looks through the infrared scope
and sees something completely bizarre that should not be there, anomaly.
He describes it as looking like a dirty snowball of light,
just this yellowish, murky sphere of energy hovering completely silently
in the air, just a couple of feet off the ground.
Speaker 2: Floating there.
Speaker 1: He immediately radios his partner, who is stationed down below,
to confirm the visual. The partner looks and says, yes,
he sees the light, but from his angle it's vague and.
Speaker 2: Unfocused because of his positioning right.
Speaker 1: And then the scientist up on the ridge, the one
looking through the high powered infrared keyses radio and says, hey,
something's happening. It's changing.
Speaker 2: What's fascinating. Here is the precise mechanical visual description of
that change, so specific.
Speaker 1: Very this hovering ball of light doesn't behave like a
flare or a drone. It doesn't just glow brighter or
fly away into the sky. According to NAP's rigorous documentation
of the scientist's logs, the light begins to dynamically expand.
It stretches, it stretches out, It literally elongates, pulling itself
apart until it forms what the scientist can only describe
as a free standing, glowing tunnel of light, hovering in
the middle of the desert, floating in the air. And
then the truly impossible happens. From inside the depth of
this glowing tunnel, a massive, physical humanoid figure begins to emerge.
Oh Man NAP's report describes the entity as being absolutely massive,
seven or eight feet tall, completely pitch black, and entirely featureless.
No eyes nothing, no eyes, no face, no clothing, just
a massive, dense shadow. It's described as if this monstrous
entity reaches up from whatever space it is in, grabs
the physical edges of this tunnel of light like it's
a doorway.
Speaker 2: Like holding the doorframe.
Speaker 1: Exactly pulls its massive shoulders through, and heavily crawls out
onto the dirt of our physical.
Speaker 2: Space that is wild, and the very moment its feet
are fully on the ground, the tunnel immediately collapses back
into a tight ball of light and completely vanishes, leaving
this massive creature standing in the dark.
Speaker 1: I mean, it literally gives me goosebumps just thinking about
the sheer existential dread of witnessing that.
Speaker 2: It's horrifying.
Speaker 1: An eight foot featureless shadow monster just crawling out of
a glowing hole in the air right into your reality.
It is pure nightmare fuel.
Speaker 2: It is deeply unsettling on a primal level, yes, But
if we force ourselves to look at it scientifically without
the emotion of fear, it points to a very specific
theoretical mechanism a portal, right, This was not a physical
craft landing. This was, by all descriptive and observational accounts,
a dimensional tunnel, a wormhole, or an Einstein Rosen bridge
opening within the Earth's atmosphere doorway. It strongly suggests that
this massive entity was traveling from an entirely different reality
or perhaps a different point in space time, and actively
stepping through a temporary, localized doorway directly into our physical environment.
Speaker 1: And this idea of doorways or portals opening up on
the ranch isn't just a modern scientific theory cooked up
by guys with infrared cameras.
Speaker 2: No, it goes way back.
Speaker 1: It is deeply fundamentally embedded in the ancient history of
the land itself. When you look at the oral history
as a Navajo and the U tribes who have lived
in that specific rugged region for centuries, they know the area,
they have long held deeply respected traditions that these portals
are absolutely real. In fact, there are detailed Navajo emergence
stories detailing how their ancient ancestors literally moved through several
distinct underground.
Speaker 2: Worlds, surviving various cataclysms yes, and.
Speaker 1: Eventually coming into this current world through a physical hole
in the ground, a literal portal, the emergence point. There
are tribal historians and elders who state, matter of factly,
without any sense of mythology, that these physical holes in
the universe allow travel into different dimensions, and that they
have existed on that land for eons.
Speaker 2: It's just a fact of life for them.
Speaker 1: Their belief is that if you possess the ancient knowledge,
the right frequencies, or the right rituals, you can literally
travel back and forth.
Speaker 2: Which perfectly elegantly bridges ancient indigenous knowledge with the absolute
bleeding edge of modern theoretical physics.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how those line up.
Speaker 2: We see this convergence quite often when we dig deep
enough into the sources. Researchers like Redfern point out that
modern quantum physics, specifically string theory and m theory, fundamentally
allows for and mathematically requires the existence of multiple.
Speaker 1: Dimensions, dimensions existing right on top of ours.
Speaker 2: That coexists simultaneously, right on top of our own. We
humans tend to perceive reality as a single, solid, inescapable room.
We think the three D space we can see and
touch is all there is. That's a whole world, but
quantum mechanics suggests reality is actually much more like an
infinitely massive, towering apartment building, and we were just living
inside one specific, isolated unit.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that analogy.
Speaker 2: It works well. What is happening at Skinwalker Ranch, according
to this theoretical framework, is a localized geographic breakdown of
the structural walls.
Speaker 1: Between those apartments, the walls with thinning.
Speaker 2: Redfern beautifully describes it as a bleed over place, a
highly specific location on the planet where the electromagnetic or
gravitational barrier between dimensions is incredibly thin.
Speaker 1: So things can slip through.
Speaker 2: Allowing strange creatures, unusual energetic entity, and even lost human
beings to quite literally jump or accidentally fall from their
parallel dimension right into ours.
Speaker 1: I really love that apartment building analogy. It's like the
universe has a leaky roof right over the state of Utah,
right and all the weirdness from the upstairs neighbors keeps
dripping down into our living room.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to picture it.
Speaker 1: And futurists Caroline Corey takes this quantum idea even further,
trying to explain the actual structure of how these portals.
Speaker 2: Form her theories are fascinating.
Speaker 1: She argues that the physical universe at its absolute microscopic
base level, is entirely based on sacred geometry. Her theory
suggests that there is a massive matrix, a grid, a geometric,
intricately patterned weblike grid system that wraps completely around our
entire planet. Think of it like the Earth being wrapped
at a giant, invisible, highly porous geometric net of energy.
Speaker 2: Like a structural scaffolding.
Speaker 1: Exactly, this net has specific, mathematically precise intersection points, nodes
where the energy lines cross. Under normal circumstances, this energetic
grid holds the fabric of our three D reality together.
Speaker 2: It keeps the walls of the apartment building solid.
Speaker 1: Yes, but if there is a massive energetic tear, a fluctuation,
or a weakness in the fabric at one of these
specific intersections, like Skinwalker Ranch, like the exact geographical coordinates
of Skinwalker Ranch, you are going to see all kinds
of impossible reality breaking anomalies.
Speaker 2: Exactly. It provides a logical structural framework for high strangeness.
It takes it out of the realm of magic and
places it firmly in the realm of hyperadvanced physics.
Speaker 1: It makes it mechanical.
Speaker 2: If Corey's geometric matrix theory is accurate, these tears or
fluctuations in the spatial fabric act as unregulated chaotic turnstyles
between realities turnstyles. It perfectly explains why a deeply confused
prehistoric animal might suddenly be seen wandering through the Utah sagebrush,
or why an orb of light can stretch itself into
a literal doorway for a shadow entity.
Speaker 1: They just stumble in.
Speaker 2: They aren't traveling millions of light years through outer space
in the traditional linear sense. They are taking a shortcut.
They are finding a weak point in the geometric grid
and simply falling through a tear in the literal fabric
of reality.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's pause here and pull these two massive
ideas together.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: If we accept the premise that travel between dimensions or
realms is mechanically possible through these geometric portals, right, and
we accept that the entities coming through possess the biological
technology to alter their physical forms to interact with us
or manipulate us.
Speaker 2: We have to ask a massive historical question.
Speaker 1: Exactly has this happened before? Yeh is Travis Walton's encounter
in the Skinwalker Ranch anomalies just modern phenomena or has
this been happening consistently throughout human history?
Speaker 2: A very important thread to follow.
Speaker 1: To follow this thread, we need to leave the deserts
of the American Southwest. We are going to travel over
seven and a half thousand miles away and journey thousands
of year years back in time. We are heading to
the ancient city of Varanasi.
Speaker 2: India, a truly ancient place.
Speaker 1: Now, I want to ask you about the historical precedent
here because when we talk about ancient Aliens, people usually
picture pyramids, But our research is pointing us toward medicine.
What makes Varanasi so crucial to this investigation?
Speaker 2: The geographical and historical context of Varanasi is vital. It
is located roughly five hundred miles southeast of Delhi, situated
directly on the sacred banks of the River Ganges. It
is widely considered by historians and archaeologists to be one
of the oldest continuously inhabited cities on the entire planet.
The layers of history there are unfathomable.
Speaker 1: It goes back so far and.
Speaker 2: Crucially for our investigation. According to deep rooted historical legend
and ancient texts, it is a city that was not
founded by early human settlers.
Speaker 1: It was founded by the gods.
Speaker 2: It was established by the gods themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and because of that divine connection, Varanasi became this incredible,
thriving ancient center of deep knowledge, philosophy and learning.
Speaker 2: A real hub.
Speaker 1: The text point us to a specific ancient physician named
Sushruta who lived in practice there. Now. Historians widely credit
this man, Sushuta, with essentially developing the entire art of
complex invasive surgery.
Speaker 2: It's astounding what he achieved.
Speaker 1: And I want to be very clear here. We are
not talking about a guy who figured out how to
just tightly wrap a battle wound in clean bandages, or
how to set a broken bone with sticks.
Speaker 2: No, this was advanced.
Speaker 1: Sushruda was performing highly advanced, mind bogglingly complex medical procedures
in ancient India. We're talking about literal successful skin grafts.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 1: He was performing complex cataract removals in the human eye
on the eye.
Speaker 2: I think about how delicate that is.
Speaker 1: Exactly he was even doing early functional forms of plastic surgery,
specifically rhinoplasty, to reconstruct the noses of people who had
been mutilated.
Speaker 2: The level of skill required is immense.
Speaker 1: So what does this all mean? I mean, my mind
is absolutely blown just trying to imagine someone successfully executing
a delicate cataract surgery thousands of years.
Speaker 2: Ago without modern tools.
Speaker 1: How on Earth did an ancient civilization existing entirely without
modern high powered microscopes, without chemical anesthesia, without sterile, pressurized
operating theaters, or a modern understanding of germ theory possess
such a granular, highly advanced, microscopic understanding of human anatomy
and surgical reconstruction.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be possible.
Speaker 1: It just shouldn't.
Speaker 2: You are entirely correct to be astounded. It is an incredible,
almost inexplicable technological and scientific anomaly for the time period.
The leap in knowledge is staggering.
Speaker 1: It really is a lead.
Speaker 2: To contextualize this, Let's briefly look at Areveda, the system
of medicine Sushruda is credited with founding. Areveda isn't just
a collection of herbal remedies. It is a massive, incredibly complex,
holistic medical framework. It covers everything It requires a profound
understanding of how different biological systems, the nervous system, the
circulatory system, the digestive tract all interact and balance each other.
Speaker 1: It's systemic.
Speaker 2: It requires a knowledge base that usually takes a civilization
thousands of years of painful trial, error and dissection to achieve.
Speaker 1: Generations of learning.
Speaker 2: But here is the absolute crux of the mystery. Sushruda
himself did not claim to have discovered these complex surgical
techniques through centuries of human trial and error.
Speaker 1: He didn't take the credit.
Speaker 2: He didn't claim he figured it out by dissecting bodies.
In the ancient texts, Sushruda was profoundly clear about the
exact origin of his miraculous medical prowess.
Speaker 1: Where did it come from?
Speaker 2: According to the foundational Hindu texts and legends, Sushruda explicitly
stated that he received this highly advanced anatomical knowledge, this
complete medical framework, directly from a god named than Bontari okay.
Speaker 1: And this is where the shape shifting thread weaves back
into the tapestry beautifully, because Don Vanari wasn't just considered
a regular deity who hung out in the clouds.
Speaker 2: No, he was very hands on.
Speaker 1: He was revered as a high level god who provided
humanity with a complete, perfect healing modality entirely based on
a microscopic understanding of both the physical biology and the
subtle energetic aspects of the human body.
Speaker 2: A master of biology.
Speaker 1: Now Traditionally, in the ancient art and statues, Donventari is
depicted having forearms holding a conk shell, a discus, a
leech for blood letting at a pot containing the nectar
of immortality, along with various medicinal herbs.
Speaker 2: A very distinct figure.
Speaker 1: But the ancient legend states very specifically that Donventari was
a shape shifter.
Speaker 2: This is the key.
Speaker 1: When he journeyed from the heavens down to Earth to
drocy interact with human beings and teach them these medical secrets.
He could and did take on various physical forms, and
one of his primary most documented forms was that of
a bird.
Speaker 2: If we connect this specific detail to the bigger picture,
a genuinely fascinating, almost undeniable pattern begins to emerge across
completely disconnected ancient cultures.
Speaker 1: The patterns are crazy.
Speaker 2: We have don Ventari in ancient India passing down hyperadvanced
medical knowledge while possessing the divine ability to shift his
physical form into an avian creature, a bird. And then
if we look thousands of miles away, across impassable deserts
and oceans to ancient Egypt, we find the exact same story.
Foth we have thought. Thought is the highly revered Egyptian
god of wisdom and mathematics, writing and crucially healing and medicine.
Speaker 1: Medicine again, and how is Thought.
Speaker 2: Famously universally depicted in Egyptian hieroglyphs as a shape shifting
half man half bird entity, specifically a human body with
the head of an iabis bird.
Speaker 1: It's just entirely too specific to be a random coincidence, right, Yeah,
you have two incredibly ancient, foundational human cultures separated by thousands.
Speaker 2: Of miles, totally isolated from each other.
Speaker 1: Both cultures suddenly experience a massive, inexplicable leap in their
understanding of advanced medicine, invasive surgery, and human anatomy. And
in both distinct cultures, their historical records state that the
entity who hands them this incredible gift of knowledge is
associated with the celestial, extraterrestrial or divine origin. And Randy
possesses a bird like shape shifting physical form.
Speaker 2: The parallels are too exact to ignore. Researchers who focus
on these ancient texts, including prominent figures like William Henry,
Georgia A. Suclos and the late Philip Coppins, synthesizes data
to form a highly compelling.
Speaker 1: Hypothesis, ancient astronaut theory.
Speaker 2: Yes, they operate under the framework of ancient astronaut theory
for anyone listening. Ancient astronaut theory is the hypothesis that
intelligent extraterrestrial beings visited Earth in antiquity and profoundly influence
the development of human civilization, technology, and religion to give
us a jumpstart. Exactly, Our ancestors simply lacked the vocabulary
to describe aliens in spaceships, so they called them gods
and chariots of fire.
Speaker 1: Makes sense.
Speaker 2: Succolos points out that Sushruda plainly stated he learned his
surgical techniques from the gods. Through the analytical lens of
ancient astronaut theory, this translates directly to highly advanced non
human extraterrestrial entities actively instructing early humanity. They were the
teachers They argue that our original foundational knowledge of human
anatomy of how to open the body, repair it, and
heal it didn't evolve slowly through human experimentation. It was
actively injected into our historical timeline by extraterrestrial sources.
Speaker 1: Philip Coppins makes a really great point about this too.
He notes that if you look closely, almost every single
ancient culture across the globe will tell you that the
first surgeon, the very concept of medicine and biological healing
was a direct gift from the heavens.
Speaker 2: It was never claimed as a human invention.
Speaker 1: Never, it was always documented as divine intervention. But I
have to be honest, I keep getting hung up on
the bird.
Speaker 2: Aspect of all this avian form.
Speaker 1: Why a bird? If you are a highly advanced interdimensional
or ex terrestrial being possessing the technology to travel across
the cosmos and the biological knowledge to teach early humans
how to perform complex skin graphs, why on Earth would
you choose to show up looking like a giant ibis
or an eagle? I mean, going back at Travis Watson,
those entities shape shifted to look human to build trust.
A giant birdman seems incredibly terrifying. Yeah, why not just
look human?
Speaker 2: That is precisely the right question to ask, and it
raises an important point about the complex mechanics of communication
between vastly different, entirely alien species. Also, we discussed earlier
how the entities in Travis Walton's encounter shape shifted into
a human form specifically to reduce his immediate psychological trauma
and hack his facial recognition software. Perhaps these ancient extraterrestrial
visitors utilize the exact same biological strategy, but tailored it
specifically to the deeply ingrained cultural, spiritual, and cognitive framework
of early primitive humans.
Speaker 1: They played to the audience think about.
Speaker 2: Early humanity's real life relationship with the natural world. Taking
the form of a massive bird, a creature of the
sky universally associated by ancient humans with the heavens, with flight,
with power, and with the unreachable realm above, might have
been an incredibly deliberate, highly calculated shape shifting.
Speaker 1: Choice because it commands awe.
Speaker 2: It instantly projected absolute authority, It visually confirmed their origin
from the heavens. It was a physical form that was
deeply awe inspiring, perhaps a bit terrifying, but ultimately biologically
recognizable and revered by the ancients.
Speaker 1: It's basically a uniform.
Speaker 2: They didn't just want to blend in. They wanted to
be listened to, obeyed, and remembered. So they utilized their
shape shifting technology to shift into an avatar, a divine
avian uniform that early humanity was culturally pre programmed to revere.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: It allowed them to successfully act as teachers and pass
down the literal, microscopic mechanics of human biology.
Speaker 1: There is an absolutely brilliant way to look at it.
They're basically putting on a culturally appropriate divine uniform to
get the job done efficiently. They knew a human face
wouldn't command the necessary respect to teach surgery, but a
sky god avatar absolutely would.
Speaker 2: It's all about contexts.
Speaker 1: But this entire concept of manipulating biology, both the human
bodies they are operating on and their own extraterrestrial bodies
to shift forms, brings us to our final and frankly,
most deeply terrifying thread of the day.
Speaker 2: The Skinwalkers.
Speaker 1: Yes, we are leaving the ancient temples of India and
Egypt and heading right back to the dusty highways of
the American Southwest. We're going to focus specifically on the
local Navajo and Ute traditions surrounding the true namesake of
Skinwalker Ranch, the skinwalker itself.
Speaker 2: It is absolutely crucial that we pause here and clearly
define exactly what a skinwalker is within this specific, deeply
respected cultural context.
Speaker 1: It's often misunderstood, very often.
Speaker 2: We have spent a lot of time today discussing extraterrestrial
entities using advanced technology to change shape, or interdimensional beings
crawling out of portals, but the traditional skinwalker lore is
fundamentally conceptually different. According to deep rooted, highly guarded Navajo traditions,
a true skinwalker, known in their language as y nald Lushi,
is not an alien from another planet. It is not
an interdimensional shadow monster.
Speaker 1: What is it? Then?
Speaker 2: A skin walker is a human being. Specifically, it is
a human Navajo, shaman, medicine man, or witch who has
intentionally actively attained the darkest supernatural abilities in order to
transform their physical human body into that of an animal.
Speaker 1: Right and while the lore says they can take various
forms depending on their needs, bears, birds, coyotes the most
commonly reported and feared animal form is that of a massive,
unnaturally fast wolf. For canine.
Speaker 2: The wolf form is very common in the reports.
Speaker 1: But I want to clarify something for you listening, because
we have all seen the movies. It's not like a
werewolf from a Hollywood blockbuster where the full moon comes
out and they are just victims of a curse magically
growing hair and losing their minds. No, it's a The
native tradition states very clearly that these are highly aware,
highly dangerous individuals who have undergone specific horrifying rituals to
gain a very precise type of dark power, magic and
biological shape changing ability. They choose to change.
Speaker 2: They are completely in control.
Speaker 1: And Jonathan Dover, a former Navajo Rangers police officer whose
research is heavily featured in the data we are looking
at today, provides some incredibly grounded clinical insight into how
this process is believed to actually work.
Speaker 2: Dover's insights are invaluable.
Speaker 1: Dover says that the fundamental terrifying view within the culture
is that these individuals are literally actively manipulating the DNA
of their own physical bodies.
Speaker 2: That is the pivotal phrase that bridges the ancient lore
with modern science.
Speaker 1: DNA manipulation sounds like science fiction.
Speaker 2: Dover explains that the skin walker usually transforms into an
animal for which they physically possess the pelt, the hide,
or the skin. They drape themselves in this physical animal
skin and combine it with highly specific ancient chants and
rituals to catalyze the biological transformation.
Speaker 1: It's described as magic.
Speaker 2: Culturally, it is described as dark magic. But when you
look at it through a modern, highly analytical scientific lens,
the concept of using foreign biological material, the animal skin,
to initiate a profound physical and genetic change in a
human body sounds remarkably like a rudimentary or perhaps a misunderstood,
hyperadvanced form of genetic engineering.
Speaker 1: Yes, let's really dig into that, because I am trying
to wrap my head around the mechanics of how rubbing
an animal pelt on your shoulders rewrites your human DNA.
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating concept because.
Speaker 1: We know about things like horizontal gene transfer in biology
right where organisms can transfer genetic material to another organism
without being its offspring. It happens in bacteria all the time.
If we look at the skin walker ritual like a
technological process, the animal PELT is essentially acting like a
biological USB drive loaded with wolf.
Speaker 2: DNA, a data storage device, and the chance.
Speaker 1: The specific frequencies of the spoken words might act as
the executable code that tells the human cells to open up,
accept the new genetic data from the PELT, and temporarily
rewrite the human body's physical structure.
Speaker 2: That is a brilliant analogy.
Speaker 1: It's like they are biologically hacking themselves like a computer virus.
Speaker 2: The computer virus analogy is incredibly apt. They are inputting
foreign code to temporarily override the host system. And this
concept of a DNA economy ties perfectly and shillingly into
some very strict, everyday cultural taboos that dover mentions in
his interviews oh He. He notes that in traditional Navajo culture,
children are taught from a very early age to be incredibly,
almost obsessively careful with their physical biological.
Speaker 1: Byproducts like hair and nails.
Speaker 2: You are taught to never ever leave your fingernail clippings
or hair trimmings lying around. They must be collected and
burned or buried. If you spit on the ground that
you are taught to immediately cover it up.
Speaker 1: With dirt because it's a vulnerability.
Speaker 2: Why, Because these things contain your unique genetic material, your DNA.
All of these deep seated cultural rules and fears revolve
entirely around the transmission, protection, and potential theft of your
personal genetic code.
Speaker 1: They are guarding their data.
Speaker 2: They genuinely, deeply believe that if a dark practitioner, a
skin walker gets a hold of your physical DNA, they
can use it to target you, to curse you, or
perhaps to manipulate your biology from afar.
Speaker 1: Which is absolutely terrifying but makes total sense if you
view magic as just a misunderstood science of genetics. And
this whole conversation about ancient rituals and DNA hacking raises
a massive worldview altering question that brings literally all of
our threads together today. If, as the ancient astronaut theorists suggest,
extraterrestrials possess the advanced biological technology to harvest DNA in
order to alter their own physical forms, whether to look
like perfectly normal humans to calm Travis Walden down, or
to look like giant Avian sky gods to teach the
ancient Indian surgery, is it possible that they didn't just
teach humanity medicine. That is the question, is it possible
they shared a tiny fraction of this shape shifting DNA
manipulating knowledge with a select few early humans. Did they
teach an ancient priestoo the underlying mechanical secrets of biological transformation?
Speaker 2: It's entirely possible.
Speaker 1: What if the terrifying chants, the specific frequencies in the
animal skins used by the Novelistkinwalker today are essentially ancient, degraded,
ritualized software programs designed by extraterrestrials to rewrite human DNA
on the fly.
Speaker 2: It's a profound thought.
Speaker 1: It deeply suggests that what the ancient world called magic
might simply be humanity's original, misunderstood word for genetic manipulation.
Speaker 2: It is a staggering paradigm shifting thought, the idea that
the ancient gods taught us how to heal our biology
with surgery, but perhaps also taught a dangerous power hungry
few exactly how to hack it and weaponize it exactly.
And if you're listening and thinking this is all just
fascinating ancient mythology or cultural folklore that has no bearing
on the modern world, we desperately need to look at
the undeniable credibility of the.
Speaker 1: Modern reports a police reports.
Speaker 2: Jonathan Dover isn't just a cultural storyteller passing down myths
around a fire. The man spent thirty one years as
a highly trained officer in.
Speaker 1: Law enforcement, A trained observer.
Speaker 2: He approaches these bizarre cases with the cold, analytical, evidence
based mindset of a veteran police officer, and he states
unequivocally on the record that over his long career, his
department investigated many, many physical, tangible incidences involving these skinwalkers.
Speaker 1: Right, and the specifics of those official law enforcement reports
are what elevate this entirely from a spooky cultural myth
to a terrifying tangible biological anomaly.
Speaker 2: The details are incredible.
Speaker 1: Dover describes taking official police reports from completely rational, completely sober,
utterly terrified individual We're talking about people who were just
going about their lives, driving down incredibly lonely, pitch black
stretches of desert highway late at.
Speaker 2: Night, very isolated roads.
Speaker 1: These people looked in their rear view mirrors, expecting to
see empty darkness, and instead, illuminated by the red glow
of their tay lights, they saw a figure, but not
an animal, a person. They saw a human figure running
behind their moving vehicles, and they weren't just jogging on
the shoulder. These human figures were actively effortlessly keeping pace
with cars traveling at sixty to sixty five miles an hour.
Speaker 2: And that detail, right there is where the science breaks
down and the terror begins.
Speaker 1: It breaks all the rules.
Speaker 2: The biomechanics required for a standard human frame to achieve
and sustain a running speed of sixty five miles an
hour without literally tearing its own muscles from the bone,
snapping its tendons, and inducing massive fatal cardiac arrest is
biologically impossible. A human being cannot do that, not a
normal human, unless, of course, that human frame has been
genetically manipulated and enhanced at a foundational cellular level using
the exact rituals we just discussed.
Speaker 1: I cannot even fathom the sheer, suffocating terror of that moment.
I want you listening to really picture this. You are
driving alone down a dark road at night, nowhere to go.
The doors are lock, the heater is on. You feel
safe in your metal box. You are doing sixty five
miles an hour. You casually check your rear view mirror,
and there is a human being matching your speed step
for step, just staring at you blankly through the back window.
Speaker 2: It violates every law of nature.
Speaker 1: It violates every law of nature you rely on to
feel safe in the world.
Speaker 2: Exactly, it completely defies every established law of human physiology.
And this is why Dover's concluding warning in his research
is so incredibly poignant and necessary.
Speaker 1: What does he say.
Speaker 2: He acknowledges that, as a police officer, whether or not
we are dealing with a definitive extraterrestrial presence on the
reservations is still an open question, but he emphatically emphasizes
that there is more than enough credible, investigated physical information
out there to warrant serious global scientific attention.
Speaker 1: We can't just ignore it.
Speaker 2: He explicitly warns against the arrogance of taking these accounts
lightly or dismissing them as mere fantasy simply because they
originate from a different cultural perspective than Western empirical science.
The phenomena are real, regardless of what we choose to
call them.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so we have pulled on some truly incredible
reality bending threads today.
Speaker 2: We covered a lot of ground.
Speaker 1: We started our journey in a freezing dark pine forest
in Arizona, looking at the deeply deceptive psychological comfort of
advanced non human entities actively shave shifting into perfectly human
forms just to manage the panic of a twenty two
year old forestry worker. The biological theater right, we looked
at the terrifying elegance of the fifth column theory and
the twelve million Americans who strongly suspect those shape shifted
beings are quietly walking among us infiltrating our society right now.
Speaker 2: From there, we examine the mechanical tiers in the geometric
fabric of space time at Skinwalker Ranch, the portals, we
analyze the rigorous observations of scientists like George Knapp's report
of a literal dimensional tunnel expanding out of a ball
of light, opening just long enough to allow a massive
shadow entity to crawl into our physical.
Speaker 1: Reality, pure nightmare fuel.
Speaker 2: We traveled across the globe and back in time to
ancient India and Egypt, exploring the highly compelling hypothesis that
extraterrestrial entities utilized cultural recognizable on inspiring Avian avatars to
pass down impossibly complex surgical knowledge to early humanity, the
first surgeons, and finally we returned to the American Southwest
to confront the terrifying reality of the skinwalker human beings
allegedly utilizing ancient, perhaps extraterrestrial knowledge to actively manipulate their
own DNA, temporarily rewriting their biology to ave impossible nightmarish
physiological feats like running at highway speeds.
Speaker 1: It has been a truly massive, mind extending journey, and
it leads me to one final, deeply provocative thought that
I want you listening right now to really chew on
as you go about the rest of your day.
Speaker 2: It's a big one.
Speaker 1: Throughout our entire lives, we are taught to view our
physical bodies, the solid matter around us, and the rigid
timeline of our history has fixed unchangeable constants.
Speaker 2: We think we know how reality works.
Speaker 1: We think a wall is a wall, a human is
a human in reality is exactly what we can see
in touch. But based on everything we have on pack today,
what if the exact opposite is true.
Speaker 2: What if it's all malleable?
Speaker 1: What if the boundaries of our reality are incredibly terrifyingly fluid.
What if the true underlying constant in the universe isn't
solid matter at all, but rather the limitless technological ability
to change that matter.
Speaker 2: At will that changes everything.
Speaker 1: If shape shifting, whether biological, genetic, or interdimensional, is a
foundational property of universal physics and biology that we simply
haven't evolved enough to master yet, then the world is
infinitely more terrifying and infinitely more wondrous than we could
ever possibly imagine.
Speaker 2: It forces us to entirely reevaluate every anomalous encounter recorded
in our history, and frankly, it forces us to reevaluate
every stranger we pass on the street exactly.
Speaker 1: So where do you stand on this, now that you
have all the threads laid out in front of you?
Speaker 2: What do you think we really want to know?
Speaker 1: Do you think shape shifting is a literal, tangible, biological
and interdimensional ability, a science of DNA manipulation and quantum
doorways that we just don't have the vocabulary to understand yet.
Or do you think all of these cross cultural accounts
are just a complex shared psychological metaphor for something else.
Speaker 2: Entirely, it's a fascinating debate.
Speaker 1: We really want to know your thoughts. We want to
hear how you are processing all of this wild information.
Please leave a comment below and let us know exactly
what you think. Join the conversation, Yes, please do. Thank
you so much for joining us, for having an open mind,
for following the evidence wherever it leads, and for exploring
the threads with us on this edition of Thrilling Threads.
We'll see you next time.