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<v Speaker 1>What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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<v Speaker 1>where we left off with a Leslie Groff interview with Congress.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and was Glenn Maxwell ever present in the room

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<v Speaker 1>when mister Epstein was receiving a massage? Answer? I don't know. Question.

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<v Speaker 1>Did miss Maxwell ever instruct any woman or a girl

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<v Speaker 1>on how to give mister Epstein a massage? Answer? I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. Question. Was anyone else ever present in the

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<v Speaker 1>room when mister Epstein was receiving a massage? Answer? I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. Question. As you testified to earlier, you began

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<v Speaker 1>working for mister Epstein in two thousand and one. In

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight, he pleaded guilty to two felony

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<v Speaker 1>accounts of soliciting and procuring a minor for prostitution. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>get into the details of the investigation much more later,

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<v Speaker 1>but the investigation into him began in two thousand and

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<v Speaker 1>five while you were still working for mister Epstein. When

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<v Speaker 1>did you first learn about the investigation? Answer? I believe

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<v Speaker 1>it was two thousand and seven. Uestion And how did

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<v Speaker 1>you learn answer? Because the FBI came to my door

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<v Speaker 1>in Connecticut and handed to serve me a subpoena. Question

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<v Speaker 1>and did you speak with them? Did you give testimony

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<v Speaker 1>to them? Then answer? I let them into my house

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<v Speaker 1>and sat them on my sofa and they started asking

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<v Speaker 1>some questions, and yeah, that was it. That was how

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<v Speaker 1>I found out. Question what questions did they ask? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>It was so long ago. I think they just asked

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<v Speaker 1>if you know they said that they were here. They

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<v Speaker 1>were very friendly. They just said, you know, we're here

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<v Speaker 1>because we understand you work for mister Epstein as a

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<v Speaker 1>secretary and we just want to talk to you. I

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<v Speaker 1>really don't remember what they said. I think my head

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<v Speaker 1>was probably spinning. I had no idea Miss Brignac, question,

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<v Speaker 1>who did you speak to? Next? Answer my son who

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<v Speaker 1>was with me because he had just gotten up from

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<v Speaker 1>a nap. He was about two and a half to

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<v Speaker 1>three years old. And I really didn't know what to do.

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<v Speaker 1>So I went upstairs and I called Darren Endyke, who

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<v Speaker 1>is the in house counsel, just to say that people

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<v Speaker 1>are here. I don't, you know, I don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>to do. And he just said you should not speak

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<v Speaker 1>to them without an attorney. And I've watched enough TV

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<v Speaker 1>to know, okay, So I went downstairs and I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think I should be speaking to you without

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<v Speaker 1>an attorney president, and they didn't really like that, and

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<v Speaker 1>then they left. Question did you in fact retain an attorney? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I did not retain an attorney myself. Mister Epstein got

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<v Speaker 1>me an attorney, and I went and spoke to him once. Question,

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<v Speaker 1>when you spoke to mister Indicke, did he seem privy

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<v Speaker 1>to the investigation? Answer? No, question, it was news to him.

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<v Speaker 1>Answer it sounded like it was news to him. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Tolin. Did anyone ever instruct you besides without having

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<v Speaker 1>an attorney, but did anyone generally instruct you not to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to the FBI? Answer? No question. And at what

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<v Speaker 1>point did the massages stop occurring for mister Epstein? Answer

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<v Speaker 1>when he went to jail? Question in July of two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and six. Answer, No, he went to jail. When

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<v Speaker 1>did he go to jail two thousand and nine, two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and eight, Yeah, Brigniak. Did the sssages stop occurring

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<v Speaker 1>at that time? Miss Graff? Yeah? Question did they resume

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<v Speaker 1>at any point after he was released from jail? Miss Groff? No?

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Emmer, what was your understanding of why the massages

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<v Speaker 1>stopped at that point, Miss Graff, you never said there

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<v Speaker 1>was no reason, they just stopped. Mister Timmins when he

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<v Speaker 1>was on work release. Did he not get massages when

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<v Speaker 1>he was out of jail temporarily, Miss Groff, No, Brignac,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, Miss Groff, you said they never resumed, Miss Groff,

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<v Speaker 1>They did not resume after he got back or when

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<v Speaker 1>he came got out of jail. Miss Brignac, you never

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<v Speaker 1>booked a massage for mister Epstein once he was released

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<v Speaker 1>from prison. Miss Groff, It's possible that there was a

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<v Speaker 1>massage had a spawn pomp Beach don Wick that we

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<v Speaker 1>discussed earlier. They had a medical chiropractic care spa, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that might have been one time. I think

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<v Speaker 1>he bought like a package of ten for a nutritionist.

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<v Speaker 1>They were nutritionists in chiropractic care, and Don was also

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<v Speaker 1>a registered massuse mister Timmins. So in twenty thirteen, when

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<v Speaker 1>you moved into the residence and your office was there,

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<v Speaker 1>he never had you book a massage for him until

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<v Speaker 1>he died in twenty nineteen, Miss Groff. That's correct, Miss Brignac.

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<v Speaker 1>But he continued to receive massages? Correct? Did someone else

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<v Speaker 1>book them, Miss Graff, Not that I know of. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know that massages were being booked or made. Brignac,

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<v Speaker 1>Why would the massages need to cease if that was

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<v Speaker 1>a regular part of his day? And he said, in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>he was not guilty, Miss Graff, I don't know. He

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<v Speaker 1>also stopped drinking tea. Miss Witcombe, you answered the question,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Graff. Yeah, Miss Whitcombe, you answered the question, Ms Graff,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Yeah, Miss Brignac. Did you find it

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<v Speaker 1>odd that it was a regular part of your practice,

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<v Speaker 1>the schedule his massages and then it suddenly stopped, Miss Groff? No,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Tolan. And now we're just going to ask a

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<v Speaker 1>few general questions about your role and get into some

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<v Speaker 1>more details about it. Did you have to sign a

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<v Speaker 1>non disclosure agreement upon being hired as mister Epstein's secretary? Answer? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>question what were the details of this agree? Answer? What

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<v Speaker 1>I recall is that I was not supposed to discuss

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<v Speaker 1>any of mister Epstein's clients with anyone, and if I

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<v Speaker 1>did so, it would be one hundred thousand dollars fee.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and you understood this to mean his business clients

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<v Speaker 1>who he managed money for. Answer correct question And how

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<v Speaker 1>did you know? I know we discussed earlier your knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>of who clients were, But how did you know who

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<v Speaker 1>was a client at the time? Answer I believe that

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<v Speaker 1>NDA might have specifically said las Wexner and then clients

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<v Speaker 1>and clients. Question but at the time you would have

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<v Speaker 1>understood who fell into that category? Answer sure, as clients

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<v Speaker 1>is wealthy clients. Uh huh. Question did you keep a

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<v Speaker 1>copy of the agreement? Answer? I did not. Question did

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<v Speaker 1>all the employees of mister Epstein have to sign the agreement? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Question did mister Epstein himself ask you

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<v Speaker 1>to sign the agreement? Answer? No, it was part of onboarding.

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<v Speaker 1>It was probably redacted, is my bet? Question and you

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned previously, but can you explain again where you maintain

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<v Speaker 1>office space while working for him? Answer? Sure? So from

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and one to two thousand and nine it

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<v Speaker 1>was part of Helmsley Palace, part of the Villard House,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was located in the rear of the suite,

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<v Speaker 1>directly back from the reception as desk. There was a

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<v Speaker 1>door to my office and then my desk sitting. If

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<v Speaker 1>you looked outside the window you could see Saint Patrick's Cathedral.

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<v Speaker 1>Answer And where did you move to in two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and nine? Answer? In two thousand and nine, we moved

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<v Speaker 1>to three oh one E sixty sixth Street. Answer and

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<v Speaker 1>how long were you in that office space? Answer? I

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<v Speaker 1>believe it was two or three years? Question? When did

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<v Speaker 1>you get moved to that office space? Answer? We were

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<v Speaker 1>told that the premier location at Helmsley Palace was very

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<v Speaker 1>expensive location, and since mister Epstein wasn't going to be

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<v Speaker 1>here anymore, what we needed to we were downsizing and

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<v Speaker 1>needed to find other space. I don't know why it

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<v Speaker 1>became three oh one E sixty six Street. Question did

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<v Speaker 1>you ever work out of the four fifty seven Madison

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<v Speaker 1>Avenue building? Answer that was Helmsley Place? Yes? Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>did you ever? Timmins jumps in? Real quick? Can I

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<v Speaker 1>get back to something? So it's my understanding that Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>had a massage every day for his entire life, but

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<v Speaker 1>after he got out of jail, you never booked a

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<v Speaker 1>massage therapist. Did you book the eight assistants for an hour?

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<v Speaker 1>And did just say name hour or what he was

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<v Speaker 1>getting massage? So like? And you were in charge of

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<v Speaker 1>his schedule so what was going on? I mean, did

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<v Speaker 1>you book a redacted ten am for an hour? Graf? No, Timmins, No,

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<v Speaker 1>Graff no, Timmins. Okay. He got a massage for every

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<v Speaker 1>day of his life. So when after twenty ten, when

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<v Speaker 1>he got out of jail, when when did that happen?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you do a schedule, Graf, when did

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<v Speaker 1>it stop? Timmins, He was getting them. The question is

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<v Speaker 1>who was giving them to him? If you were not

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<v Speaker 1>coordinating it? So how did he who was doing it?

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Wickham jumps in? Was there someone else coordinating mister Timmins.

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<v Speaker 1>Was there like a logical spot in his schedule on

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<v Speaker 1>a regular basis that used to have a massage that

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<v Speaker 1>now has something else? A pattern? Backner? Maybe if you

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<v Speaker 1>ask I don't know if we ask her if she

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<v Speaker 1>knew he was getting massages? Timmins okay, Graff, Yeah, Timmins.

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<v Speaker 1>Was there a pattern in the schedule that would suggest

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<v Speaker 1>that there was a moment in his day on a

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<v Speaker 1>regular basis that he was getting a massage since you

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<v Speaker 1>stopped scheduling them, Graff No, Timmins, okay, sorry, Back to

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<v Speaker 1>miss Tolan and then just a few more office questions

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<v Speaker 1>did you ever work out of the Palm Beach home?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer no question, did you? And did you mentioned an

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<v Speaker 1>office space in Manhattan town home later on? Answer later

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<v Speaker 1>on yes. Question And aside from scheduling massages, can you

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<v Speaker 1>describe your other roles and responsibilities as mister Epstein's secretary?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer sure. I scheduled his business meetings. I scheduled breakfast, lunch, dinner.

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<v Speaker 1>If he was going to have a party, I might

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<v Speaker 1>coordinate with that. I coordinated with this staff, all the

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<v Speaker 1>homes on his island. I coordinated with his pilots. I

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<v Speaker 1>would sometimes coordinate trips to say a TED conference. I

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<v Speaker 1>would the call list, as I said, was very extensive.

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<v Speaker 1>He would make calls every day. And yeah. Question and

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<v Speaker 1>also aside from the massages, did you ever spend money

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<v Speaker 1>or provide cash on behalf of mister Epstein during your

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<v Speaker 1>time as his secretary to anyone? Answer no question. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you ever help order or purchase gifts for anyone on

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<v Speaker 1>behalf of mister Epstein? Answer no question. And I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>going to answer some more clarifying questions about purchasing gifts.

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Backner, Could I have one word with her? Tolan? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they go off the record. Now they're back on MS Graff. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to say sorry after you asked that,

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<v Speaker 1>I would say that I definitely coordinated about forty people

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<v Speaker 1>to receive Apple watches, and you know I might be

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<v Speaker 1>asked to buy the gift card for Kathy Ruhmler to

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<v Speaker 1>a SPA something like that, Miss Tolan. Question what were

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<v Speaker 1>the Apple watches for? Answer? I think that were Christmas gifts?

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<v Speaker 1>Holiday gifts. That was about There was a list of

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<v Speaker 1>about forty people, men and women, high profile people on there,

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<v Speaker 1>and mister Epstein just wanted to give everybody a watch

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<v Speaker 1>for Christmas. Question do you recall any of the names

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<v Speaker 1>who received watches? Answer? I do. I was one of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Bannon was one of them. Jojo and Lynn I

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<v Speaker 1>believe were on there. I don't recall who else. Question

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<v Speaker 1>what year was that? Answer? I think that was twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and did you ever purchase any gifts for any

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<v Speaker 1>of mister Epstein's assistants? Answer I don't think so. Question

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<v Speaker 1>did you purchase gifts for any other woman associated with

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein? Answer? I know Kathy Rumler got a gift

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<v Speaker 1>card at Christmas time. I recall getting Leon Black's assistant.

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<v Speaker 1>I think she got a spot card. Question did you

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<v Speaker 1>ever purchase lingerie for women associated with mister Epstein? Answer

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<v Speaker 1>no question. What about flowers? Answer Kathy Rumler might have

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<v Speaker 1>received flowers. What about chocolates? Answer not that I recall,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Brignac. What was his relationship with Kathy Rumler? Answer business? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>they were. From what I could tell, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>business relationship. Question it seemed like a business relationship after

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<v Speaker 1>he was sending flowers and SPA appointments. Answer. I think

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<v Speaker 1>he thought of her as very professional, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>very generous, and I think he found her. She was

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<v Speaker 1>very busy and probably enjoyed some flowers on her birthday

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<v Speaker 1>or a SPA gift card. Question was there any office

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<v Speaker 1>gossip about their relationship? Answer no? Question did you wear

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<v Speaker 1>any rumors about their relationship? Answer no? Mister Emmer? What

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<v Speaker 1>was her job during this period? Answer by miss Groff?

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<v Speaker 1>She was an attorney? Emmer. Do you know? Gets cut

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<v Speaker 1>off by Groff. I don't know exactly, but I knew

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<v Speaker 1>her to be an attorney, Miss Tolan, And you said

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein knew her. Their relationship was strictly business. What

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<v Speaker 1>kind of business were they engaging in together. Can you elaborate,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Groff, I don't know. He did not talk to

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<v Speaker 1>me about that. Mister Backner, can I ask ask for

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<v Speaker 1>another question? Goes off the record? Back on Miss Brignac,

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<v Speaker 1>and you add access to mister Epstein's personal email accounts.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you see any conversations about miss Rumler's job position.

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<v Speaker 1>Ms Groff, I did not have access to his personal

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<v Speaker 1>email account. I mean I would email them, but I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't see his emails, Miss Brignac, were uc Seed on

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<v Speaker 1>any emails at reference Roomler's profession? Groff, I don't recall

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<v Speaker 1>Emmer in relation to Rumler. The Committee's interested in how

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein may have surrounded himself with influential individuals to

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<v Speaker 1>curry favor. Did you understand Rumler to be an individual

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<v Speaker 1>that was working at the White House during the period

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<v Speaker 1>that you had been scheduling their meetings, ms Groff, I

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<v Speaker 1>thought you worked at the White House prior to mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein's meeting. Mister Emmer, thank you. All right. We're going

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<v Speaker 1>to wrap up right here and in the next episode

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with the topic, We're going to pick up where

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<v Speaker 1>we left off. All the information that goes with This

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<v Speaker 1>episode can be found in the description box.