Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off with a Leslie Groff interview with Congress.
Speaker 1: Question and was Glenn Maxwell ever present in the room
Speaker 1: when mister Epstein was receiving a massage? Answer? I don't know. Question.
Speaker 1: Did miss Maxwell ever instruct any woman or a girl
Speaker 1: on how to give mister Epstein a massage? Answer? I
Speaker 1: don't know. Question. Was anyone else ever present in the
Speaker 1: room when mister Epstein was receiving a massage? Answer? I
Speaker 1: don't know. Question. As you testified to earlier, you began
Speaker 1: working for mister Epstein in two thousand and one. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, he pleaded guilty to two felony
Speaker 1: accounts of soliciting and procuring a minor for prostitution. We'll
Speaker 1: get into the details of the investigation much more later,
Speaker 1: but the investigation into him began in two thousand and
Speaker 1: five while you were still working for mister Epstein. When
Speaker 1: did you first learn about the investigation? Answer? I believe
Speaker 1: it was two thousand and seven. Uestion And how did
Speaker 1: you learn answer? Because the FBI came to my door
Speaker 1: in Connecticut and handed to serve me a subpoena. Question
Speaker 1: and did you speak with them? Did you give testimony
Speaker 1: to them? Then answer? I let them into my house
Speaker 1: and sat them on my sofa and they started asking
Speaker 1: some questions, and yeah, that was it. That was how
Speaker 1: I found out. Question what questions did they ask? Answer?
Speaker 1: It was so long ago. I think they just asked
Speaker 1: if you know they said that they were here. They
Speaker 1: were very friendly. They just said, you know, we're here
Speaker 1: because we understand you work for mister Epstein as a
Speaker 1: secretary and we just want to talk to you. I
Speaker 1: really don't remember what they said. I think my head
Speaker 1: was probably spinning. I had no idea Miss Brignac, question,
Speaker 1: who did you speak to? Next? Answer my son who
Speaker 1: was with me because he had just gotten up from
Speaker 1: a nap. He was about two and a half to
Speaker 1: three years old. And I really didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: So I went upstairs and I called Darren Endyke, who
Speaker 1: is the in house counsel, just to say that people
Speaker 1: are here. I don't, you know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do. And he just said you should not speak
Speaker 1: to them without an attorney. And I've watched enough TV
Speaker 1: to know, okay, So I went downstairs and I said,
Speaker 1: I don't think I should be speaking to you without
Speaker 1: an attorney president, and they didn't really like that, and
Speaker 1: then they left. Question did you in fact retain an attorney? Answer?
Speaker 1: I did not retain an attorney myself. Mister Epstein got
Speaker 1: me an attorney, and I went and spoke to him once. Question,
Speaker 1: when you spoke to mister Indicke, did he seem privy
Speaker 1: to the investigation? Answer? No, question, it was news to him.
Speaker 1: Answer it sounded like it was news to him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolin. Did anyone ever instruct you besides without having
Speaker 1: an attorney, but did anyone generally instruct you not to
Speaker 1: talk to the FBI? Answer? No question. And at what
Speaker 1: point did the massages stop occurring for mister Epstein? Answer
Speaker 1: when he went to jail? Question in July of two
Speaker 1: thousand and six. Answer, No, he went to jail. When
Speaker 1: did he go to jail two thousand and nine, two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Yeah, Brigniak. Did the sssages stop occurring
Speaker 1: at that time? Miss Graff? Yeah? Question did they resume
Speaker 1: at any point after he was released from jail? Miss Groff? No?
Speaker 1: Mister Emmer, what was your understanding of why the massages
Speaker 1: stopped at that point, Miss Graff, you never said there
Speaker 1: was no reason, they just stopped. Mister Timmins when he
Speaker 1: was on work release. Did he not get massages when
Speaker 1: he was out of jail temporarily, Miss Groff, No, Brignac,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Miss Groff, you said they never resumed, Miss Groff,
Speaker 1: They did not resume after he got back or when
Speaker 1: he came got out of jail. Miss Brignac, you never
Speaker 1: booked a massage for mister Epstein once he was released
Speaker 1: from prison. Miss Groff, It's possible that there was a
Speaker 1: massage had a spawn pomp Beach don Wick that we
Speaker 1: discussed earlier. They had a medical chiropractic care spa, and
Speaker 1: I think that might have been one time. I think
Speaker 1: he bought like a package of ten for a nutritionist.
Speaker 1: They were nutritionists in chiropractic care, and Don was also
Speaker 1: a registered massuse mister Timmins. So in twenty thirteen, when
Speaker 1: you moved into the residence and your office was there,
Speaker 1: he never had you book a massage for him until
Speaker 1: he died in twenty nineteen, Miss Groff. That's correct, Miss Brignac.
Speaker 1: But he continued to receive massages? Correct? Did someone else
Speaker 1: book them, Miss Graff, Not that I know of. I
Speaker 1: don't know that massages were being booked or made. Brignac,
Speaker 1: Why would the massages need to cease if that was
Speaker 1: a regular part of his day? And he said, in fact,
Speaker 1: he was not guilty, Miss Graff, I don't know. He
Speaker 1: also stopped drinking tea. Miss Witcombe, you answered the question,
Speaker 1: Miss Graff. Yeah, Miss Whitcombe, you answered the question, Ms Graff,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, Miss Brignac. Did you find it
Speaker 1: odd that it was a regular part of your practice,
Speaker 1: the schedule his massages and then it suddenly stopped, Miss Groff? No,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolan. And now we're just going to ask a
Speaker 1: few general questions about your role and get into some
Speaker 1: more details about it. Did you have to sign a
Speaker 1: non disclosure agreement upon being hired as mister Epstein's secretary? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: question what were the details of this agree? Answer? What
Speaker 1: I recall is that I was not supposed to discuss
Speaker 1: any of mister Epstein's clients with anyone, and if I
Speaker 1: did so, it would be one hundred thousand dollars fee.
Speaker 1: Question and you understood this to mean his business clients
Speaker 1: who he managed money for. Answer correct question And how
Speaker 1: did you know? I know we discussed earlier your knowledge
Speaker 1: of who clients were, But how did you know who
Speaker 1: was a client at the time? Answer I believe that
Speaker 1: NDA might have specifically said las Wexner and then clients
Speaker 1: and clients. Question but at the time you would have
Speaker 1: understood who fell into that category? Answer sure, as clients
Speaker 1: is wealthy clients. Uh huh. Question did you keep a
Speaker 1: copy of the agreement? Answer? I did not. Question did
Speaker 1: all the employees of mister Epstein have to sign the agreement? Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question did mister Epstein himself ask you
Speaker 1: to sign the agreement? Answer? No, it was part of onboarding.
Speaker 1: It was probably redacted, is my bet? Question and you
Speaker 1: mentioned previously, but can you explain again where you maintain
Speaker 1: office space while working for him? Answer? Sure? So from
Speaker 1: two thousand and one to two thousand and nine it
Speaker 1: was part of Helmsley Palace, part of the Villard House,
Speaker 1: and I was located in the rear of the suite,
Speaker 1: directly back from the reception as desk. There was a
Speaker 1: door to my office and then my desk sitting. If
Speaker 1: you looked outside the window you could see Saint Patrick's Cathedral.
Speaker 1: Answer And where did you move to in two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine? Answer? In two thousand and nine, we moved
Speaker 1: to three oh one E sixty sixth Street. Answer and
Speaker 1: how long were you in that office space? Answer? I
Speaker 1: believe it was two or three years? Question? When did
Speaker 1: you get moved to that office space? Answer? We were
Speaker 1: told that the premier location at Helmsley Palace was very
Speaker 1: expensive location, and since mister Epstein wasn't going to be
Speaker 1: here anymore, what we needed to we were downsizing and
Speaker 1: needed to find other space. I don't know why it
Speaker 1: became three oh one E sixty six Street. Question did
Speaker 1: you ever work out of the four fifty seven Madison
Speaker 1: Avenue building? Answer that was Helmsley Place? Yes? Question okay,
Speaker 1: did you ever? Timmins jumps in? Real quick? Can I
Speaker 1: get back to something? So it's my understanding that Epstein
Speaker 1: had a massage every day for his entire life, but
Speaker 1: after he got out of jail, you never booked a
Speaker 1: massage therapist. Did you book the eight assistants for an hour?
Speaker 1: And did just say name hour or what he was
Speaker 1: getting massage? So like? And you were in charge of
Speaker 1: his schedule so what was going on? I mean, did
Speaker 1: you book a redacted ten am for an hour? Graf? No, Timmins, No,
Speaker 1: Graff no, Timmins. Okay. He got a massage for every
Speaker 1: day of his life. So when after twenty ten, when
Speaker 1: he got out of jail, when when did that happen?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you do a schedule, Graf, when did
Speaker 1: it stop? Timmins, He was getting them. The question is
Speaker 1: who was giving them to him? If you were not
Speaker 1: coordinating it? So how did he who was doing it?
Speaker 1: Mister Wickham jumps in? Was there someone else coordinating mister Timmins.
Speaker 1: Was there like a logical spot in his schedule on
Speaker 1: a regular basis that used to have a massage that
Speaker 1: now has something else? A pattern? Backner? Maybe if you
Speaker 1: ask I don't know if we ask her if she
Speaker 1: knew he was getting massages? Timmins okay, Graff, Yeah, Timmins.
Speaker 1: Was there a pattern in the schedule that would suggest
Speaker 1: that there was a moment in his day on a
Speaker 1: regular basis that he was getting a massage since you
Speaker 1: stopped scheduling them, Graff No, Timmins, okay, sorry, Back to
Speaker 1: miss Tolan and then just a few more office questions
Speaker 1: did you ever work out of the Palm Beach home?
Speaker 1: Answer no question, did you? And did you mentioned an
Speaker 1: office space in Manhattan town home later on? Answer later
Speaker 1: on yes. Question And aside from scheduling massages, can you
Speaker 1: describe your other roles and responsibilities as mister Epstein's secretary?
Speaker 1: Answer sure. I scheduled his business meetings. I scheduled breakfast, lunch, dinner.
Speaker 1: If he was going to have a party, I might
Speaker 1: coordinate with that. I coordinated with this staff, all the
Speaker 1: homes on his island. I coordinated with his pilots. I
Speaker 1: would sometimes coordinate trips to say a TED conference. I
Speaker 1: would the call list, as I said, was very extensive.
Speaker 1: He would make calls every day. And yeah. Question and
Speaker 1: also aside from the massages, did you ever spend money
Speaker 1: or provide cash on behalf of mister Epstein during your
Speaker 1: time as his secretary to anyone? Answer no question. Did
Speaker 1: you ever help order or purchase gifts for anyone on
Speaker 1: behalf of mister Epstein? Answer no question. And I'm just
Speaker 1: going to answer some more clarifying questions about purchasing gifts.
Speaker 1: Miss Backner, Could I have one word with her? Tolan? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they go off the record. Now they're back on MS Graff. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I was going to say sorry after you asked that,
Speaker 1: I would say that I definitely coordinated about forty people
Speaker 1: to receive Apple watches, and you know I might be
Speaker 1: asked to buy the gift card for Kathy Ruhmler to
Speaker 1: a SPA something like that, Miss Tolan. Question what were
Speaker 1: the Apple watches for? Answer? I think that were Christmas gifts?
Speaker 1: Holiday gifts. That was about There was a list of
Speaker 1: about forty people, men and women, high profile people on there,
Speaker 1: and mister Epstein just wanted to give everybody a watch
Speaker 1: for Christmas. Question do you recall any of the names
Speaker 1: who received watches? Answer? I do. I was one of them.
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon was one of them. Jojo and Lynn I
Speaker 1: believe were on there. I don't recall who else. Question
Speaker 1: what year was that? Answer? I think that was twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Question and did you ever purchase any gifts for any
Speaker 1: of mister Epstein's assistants? Answer I don't think so. Question
Speaker 1: did you purchase gifts for any other woman associated with
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer? I know Kathy Rumler got a gift
Speaker 1: card at Christmas time. I recall getting Leon Black's assistant.
Speaker 1: I think she got a spot card. Question did you
Speaker 1: ever purchase lingerie for women associated with mister Epstein? Answer
Speaker 1: no question. What about flowers? Answer Kathy Rumler might have
Speaker 1: received flowers. What about chocolates? Answer not that I recall,
Speaker 1: Miss Brignac. What was his relationship with Kathy Rumler? Answer business? Yes,
Speaker 1: they were. From what I could tell, it was a
Speaker 1: business relationship. Question it seemed like a business relationship after
Speaker 1: he was sending flowers and SPA appointments. Answer. I think
Speaker 1: he thought of her as very professional, and he was
Speaker 1: very generous, and I think he found her. She was
Speaker 1: very busy and probably enjoyed some flowers on her birthday
Speaker 1: or a SPA gift card. Question was there any office
Speaker 1: gossip about their relationship? Answer no? Question did you wear
Speaker 1: any rumors about their relationship? Answer no? Mister Emmer? What
Speaker 1: was her job during this period? Answer by miss Groff?
Speaker 1: She was an attorney? Emmer. Do you know? Gets cut
Speaker 1: off by Groff. I don't know exactly, but I knew
Speaker 1: her to be an attorney, Miss Tolan, And you said
Speaker 1: mister Epstein knew her. Their relationship was strictly business. What
Speaker 1: kind of business were they engaging in together. Can you elaborate,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, I don't know. He did not talk to
Speaker 1: me about that. Mister Backner, can I ask ask for
Speaker 1: another question? Goes off the record? Back on Miss Brignac,
Speaker 1: and you add access to mister Epstein's personal email accounts.
Speaker 1: Did you see any conversations about miss Rumler's job position.
Speaker 1: Ms Groff, I did not have access to his personal
Speaker 1: email account. I mean I would email them, but I
Speaker 1: didn't see his emails, Miss Brignac, were uc Seed on
Speaker 1: any emails at reference Roomler's profession? Groff, I don't recall
Speaker 1: Emmer in relation to Rumler. The Committee's interested in how
Speaker 1: mister Epstein may have surrounded himself with influential individuals to
Speaker 1: curry favor. Did you understand Rumler to be an individual
Speaker 1: that was working at the White House during the period
Speaker 1: that you had been scheduling their meetings, ms Groff, I
Speaker 1: thought you worked at the White House prior to mister
Speaker 1: Epstein's meeting. Mister Emmer, thank you. All right. We're going
Speaker 1: to wrap up right here and in the next episode
Speaker 1: dealing with the topic, We're going to pick up where
Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with This
Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.