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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back into the podcast today. I've got Bill Barhyde

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<v Speaker 1>coming in from Ober today and we're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>breaking down the Clarity position and what's happening in DC,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a lot literally as we're recording this, DC

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<v Speaker 1>is underway for a potential markup. So Bill, welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to be here, Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Bill, you have had a chance to well to

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<v Speaker 1>give our viewers and listeners a little bit of history

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<v Speaker 1>here around Obra. You shifted and pivoted a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of where you guys were in the crypto industry to

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<v Speaker 1>where you are now. Kind of explain that first.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, under the last two different kind of government regimes,

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<v Speaker 2>we had a lot of differing opinions as to how

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<v Speaker 2>to operate in the digital asset space. It's just the

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<v Speaker 2>reality of what we had and our goal all along

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<v Speaker 2>has been to build what amounts to effectively a crypto

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<v Speaker 2>banking platform that basically prepares people for the current state

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<v Speaker 2>and the future state of the digital asset world being

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<v Speaker 2>able to buy first gen crypto assets bitcoin, ethereum, xrps,

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<v Speaker 2>you know whatever stable coins are, yield on them, borrow

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<v Speaker 2>against bitcoin, things like that, and you know, we have

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<v Speaker 2>this manatra trader and borrow, right. I mean, that's what

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<v Speaker 2>people would want to do in the digital asset realm.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've had to modify how we bring those services

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<v Speaker 2>to market to kind of fit the mold of what

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<v Speaker 2>is available within the existing regulatory frameworks. And we through

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of I wouldn't say trial and error, but

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of like legal work and digging in, we

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<v Speaker 2>realize that the easiest and most straightful way, not the

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<v Speaker 2>easiest that's crazy actually, but the most realistic way of

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<v Speaker 2>offering those services is through the model that we operate

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<v Speaker 2>under today at AVRO.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, so the model that you're working on today

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<v Speaker 1>is a bit different. You've got lending products in there.

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<v Speaker 1>You're mostly going after high net worth individuals institutions. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you see the pivot that is happening right now in

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<v Speaker 1>DC to finally position the rest of the market. We've

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<v Speaker 1>seen kind of the early adopters moving into the space.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think this is the trigger for traditional investors

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe of all types starting to move into the market.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's happening already. So you know, a few things

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<v Speaker 2>have happened in the last year, and that really matter.

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<v Speaker 2>I was actually two years that really matter, even before

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<v Speaker 2>the Trump administration came in, but post Trump administration it's

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<v Speaker 2>really accelerated. And you know, we've seen the black rock

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<v Speaker 2>ETFs were a huge catalyst because it sent a message

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<v Speaker 2>to Wall Street that if you're not focusing on you know,

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<v Speaker 2>digital assets, you are missing the boat. And it's become

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<v Speaker 2>their fastest growing products ever. And that's pretty much true

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<v Speaker 2>for everyone who's released a BITCOINYTF. So that's part one.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say Part two is we went from the

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<v Speaker 2>last administration saying everything is a security to recent guidance

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<v Speaker 2>of interpretation of existing law, even pre Clarity Act, which

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure we'll get into. That's no, not everything is

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<v Speaker 2>a security, and here is guidance on how to think

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<v Speaker 2>about that, and here's guidance on what to do if

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<v Speaker 2>something is a security. And that's what we had been

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<v Speaker 2>asking for in principle all along. Now we kind of

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<v Speaker 2>surmise that this was where the world had to go,

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<v Speaker 2>meaning the US Securities and Commodities rules kind of had

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<v Speaker 2>to go in this direction if any sane you know,

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<v Speaker 2>layer of oversight was applied, and so we were preparing

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<v Speaker 2>for that. And so to your point about you know,

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<v Speaker 2>pivoting how we operate, Right, we formed a wealth advisory Right,

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<v Speaker 2>we integrated with third party custody service providers, integrate with

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<v Speaker 2>certain you know, third party qualified custody prime brokers, and

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<v Speaker 2>we basically built an end to end stack to facilitate

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<v Speaker 2>services for clients. Again under that mantra of trade eer

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<v Speaker 2>and borrow, I want to own digital assets, right, I

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<v Speaker 2>want to earn yield on digital assets, and I want

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<v Speaker 2>to borrow against the value of digital assets. Same concept

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<v Speaker 2>from a client's mentality perspective. Maybe foregoing kind of small

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<v Speaker 2>dollar deposits under this model, but you know, still getting

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<v Speaker 2>to the promised land.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, and I think this is something we're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>more active obviously in the crypto space, especially from our audits.

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<v Speaker 1>We've seen this already right now in terms of the

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<v Speaker 1>lend borrow tools that you guys have available. What assets

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<v Speaker 1>kind I borrow against today?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Today it's bitcoin, Ethereum and Solana that I can

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<v Speaker 2>borrow against, and we'll be adding more to that over time.

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<v Speaker 2>My prediction is in two years we'll be doing more

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<v Speaker 2>loans against token is stocks than we will against bitcoin. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and that makes a lot of sense.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you make of anthropics moved. Did you follow

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<v Speaker 1>this just yesterday where.

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<v Speaker 2>They beware trying to block these secondary sales and secondary sales.

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<v Speaker 2>This is an ongoing issue, right. It has to do

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<v Speaker 2>with you know, aligning interests of companies that puts vesting

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<v Speaker 2>schedules in place, and you know have basically transfer rights

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<v Speaker 2>issues and and you know, are trying to avoid reaching

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<v Speaker 2>a circuit. There's different rules that apply when you reach

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<v Speaker 2>different shareholder numbers, and so all of that creates downstream

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<v Speaker 2>issues for companies. So so I do get and open

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<v Speaker 2>eye open AI went through the same thing. I think

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<v Speaker 2>like maybe eighteen months ago I read where they were

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<v Speaker 2>basically trying to block companies from creating secondary markets in

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<v Speaker 2>their shares or tokenizing their shares, which is gives you

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<v Speaker 2>the net effect of having a secondary market. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>a complex issue. It can be addressed head on, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but you have to basically want to deal

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<v Speaker 2>with the issue. If you don't want to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>the issue because you're a private company and you don't

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<v Speaker 2>want any disclosures, you want to keep a number of

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<v Speaker 2>shareholders under a certain threshold, then you're just going to

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<v Speaker 2>basically say, you know what, we don't support any of this,

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<v Speaker 2>everybody go away. And that seems to be the position

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<v Speaker 2>that they've taken so far.

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<v Speaker 1>You think this is going to be a company by

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<v Speaker 1>company assessment.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, it is unless the standards change, right. So

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<v Speaker 2>for for example, you know, now we have a very

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<v Speaker 2>simple standard for doing financing that's not yet equity, right,

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<v Speaker 2>the you know safe agreement, right, it's a simple agreement

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<v Speaker 2>for you know, for future equity or a staff for

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<v Speaker 2>future tokens. And we may end up with something like

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<v Speaker 2>that for the ability to have transfer rights in private companies.

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<v Speaker 2>But the tokenization of everything is actually going to change

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<v Speaker 2>everything from a trading and custody perspective in the coming months.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think this is a short term problem,

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<v Speaker 2>meaning that it's going to be very very difficult for

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<v Speaker 2>companies to prevent people who have full ownership of their

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<v Speaker 2>shares from transferring those shares unless there's some very very

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<v Speaker 2>explicit agreement that they make early on with shareholders in

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<v Speaker 2>a in a private company structure that private placements just

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<v Speaker 2>aren't allowed. Uh and and for some via some legal

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<v Speaker 2>mechanism can block them, but that doesn't happen, which I

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<v Speaker 2>think I think is going to become the norm In

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<v Speaker 2>other words, I think the norm is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to have private markets, and we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>have public markets, and everything's going to be tokenized, and

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<v Speaker 2>everything's going to be fungible, and everything's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>tradable twenty four to seven unless you make exceptions.

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<v Speaker 1>M Yeah, well, and I think the advantage to that

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of like what we're seeing in the market

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<v Speaker 1>right now. Here's JP Morgan filing for a tokenized money

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<v Speaker 1>market so, uh, this is a big deal. Eric was

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<v Speaker 1>talking about this because JP Morgan is inching further into crypto.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty low fees in general, pretty stable knap. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you make of this with JPM coming in, uh to

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<v Speaker 1>the money market fund? This is an interesting play. What

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<v Speaker 1>are your thoughts?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean we've we've predicted this is going to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>We've launched the tokenized field bearing stable coin as well.

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<v Speaker 2>It's different from from this product. This is more of

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<v Speaker 2>a traditional money market fund, right, which tends to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is a bank product, whereas you know, at what we're

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<v Speaker 2>doing is a security product, and and and so you

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<v Speaker 2>get to you get kind of to the same place.

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<v Speaker 2>Ours is a much higher year. But look, every bank

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<v Speaker 2>is going to want to do this because when you

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<v Speaker 2>tokenize a product, you do effectively two things that matter

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<v Speaker 2>and and and The first is you're representing a work

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<v Speaker 2>product as a fungible token. Okay, why why is that interesting? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's interesting because it's tradable anywhere, all right, exactly, and

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<v Speaker 2>and and so, but more importantly than that, you enable

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<v Speaker 2>infinite distribution. Right, So, if you have a money market

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<v Speaker 2>product today, as a bank, there's only one place to

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<v Speaker 2>buy that money market that's the bank that issued it.

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<v Speaker 2>If you tokenize it, you can issue it, you can

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<v Speaker 2>you can release it everywhere within the guidelines or the

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<v Speaker 2>framework of of you know what the banks and the

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<v Speaker 2>sec allow, plus what you know would be allowed into

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<v Speaker 2>the Clarity Act.

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<v Speaker 1>And so.

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<v Speaker 2>But basically, you have significantly broader distribution for your money

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<v Speaker 2>market product than you do if you're just offering it

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<v Speaker 2>via your small bank. Now obviously you know JP Morgan,

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan Stanley's, you know, just launch an ETF. These are

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<v Speaker 2>not small banks, but every bit sized bank in the

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<v Speaker 2>country can now offer a a tokenized money market product,

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<v Speaker 2>create some tweak differentiator that might say, my money market

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<v Speaker 2>product is a little bit different than theirs, tokenize it,

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<v Speaker 2>release it, and now Coinbase might have a page or

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<v Speaker 2>Abra might have a page in our in our wealth

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<v Speaker 2>management stack that says, here's seventy five different money market products,

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<v Speaker 2>and our AI Portfolio Allocation tool will decide based upon

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<v Speaker 2>certain parameters, which, uh, you know which product you should

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<v Speaker 2>store your cash in? Do you want to use the

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<v Speaker 2>ABRA USDAF for high yield and here are the risk

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<v Speaker 2>disclosures for that? Or do you want a treasury money

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<v Speaker 2>market product? And the difference might be daily liquidity for

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<v Speaker 2>you know, fifty business points less versus monthly liquidity for

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<v Speaker 2>fifty basis points more.

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<v Speaker 1>Who knows when you look at the speed in which

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<v Speaker 1>we're already see this happened. You just stated a few

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<v Speaker 1>minutes ago that this would be just months around the

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<v Speaker 1>corners here in terms of token is securities lining up obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>with Clarity in tow, this could really remake how the

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<v Speaker 1>US financial markets work. What are you thinking for twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty six will be the big takeaway and let's assume

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<v Speaker 1>that Clarity gets through. But the big takeaway for later

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<v Speaker 1>this year, anything that you're watching specifically.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think there's two, well actually three things that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking about. You know, this twenty six so far

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<v Speaker 2>has been a continuation of twenty five. Twenty five was

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<v Speaker 2>the year of the stable coin circle coming out, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. And we're seeing, you know, just a huge

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<v Speaker 2>number of bank based stable coins being released as a

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<v Speaker 2>result of Genius Act and inserts its purpose, and the

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<v Speaker 2>competition is very healthy. The second thing is is now

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<v Speaker 2>I would call it an essential tension that's evolved in

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<v Speaker 2>the last ninety days and especially between the bank lobby

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<v Speaker 2>and the crypto lobby, and that is, you know, some

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<v Speaker 2>of it's centered around this idea of who can pay

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<v Speaker 2>yield on on on deposits or cash deposite equivalents, which

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<v Speaker 2>in this case would be stable coins. And that's that's

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<v Speaker 2>a great fight because it clarifies a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of the pun, right, So that's the purpose of

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<v Speaker 2>this act, right, is the clarified. You know, get everybody

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<v Speaker 2>on the same bus, pointing in the same direction and say, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>here's the rules of the road, which is what we've

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<v Speaker 2>actually been asking for for a long time. So I

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<v Speaker 2>have a very strong feeling about this, and it's probably

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<v Speaker 2>a little contrarian to my peers, in the space. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>most crypto exchanges want to act like a bank, but

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<v Speaker 2>they don't want to be a bank, right, and they think, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the advantage of tokenization is I can act like

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<v Speaker 2>a bank, and I have. If you're holding someone else's

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<v Speaker 2>money and you're lending against those deposits, right, you're a bank.

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<v Speaker 2>And and so having different rules for you know, coin

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<v Speaker 2>based act thing as a bank and a bank acting

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<v Speaker 2>as a bank doesn't actually make sense to me. Okay, unless,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, there's no fractional reserve lending in the system,

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<v Speaker 2>and then maybe you can use money transmitter licenses and

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<v Speaker 2>lending licenses and things like that. But this gets very

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<v Speaker 2>complicated for the audience that I'm gonna make it simple. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>If you're Chase, the oversight that you have because your

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<v Speaker 2>deposits are insured by the taxpayer is enormous, right. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I've never seen the team, but I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>go out a limb and say there is a team

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<v Speaker 2>of occ fdic Finns and staff on site at Chase

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<v Speaker 2>overseeing the bank, okay, because they don't want to be

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<v Speaker 2>left holding the proverbial bag if they start doing you know,

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<v Speaker 2>fraud and all these other things and you know, unrealistic

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<v Speaker 2>lending practices, risk free lending practices, et cetera, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>Point Base doesn't operate that way. Point Base operates effectively

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<v Speaker 2>as a large money transmitter, right, which is overseen by

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<v Speaker 2>myriad state licenses or some kind of you know, occ

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<v Speaker 2>trust charter. Okay, but it's a very different regime than rating,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, under a fraction of reserve banking system. And

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<v Speaker 2>so to tell Coinbase that you know, you can't basically

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<v Speaker 2>just offer blindly the same services as the bank, actually

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<v Speaker 2>makes a lot of sense to be right, unless you

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<v Speaker 2>basically say, hey, I want to be a bank, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's fine, and now you may operate differently because your

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<v Speaker 2>assets might be tokenized, but you're a bank. Okay. So

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<v Speaker 2>so I feel like having this fight was actually very productive,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've gotten a little bit of a look behind

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<v Speaker 2>the scenes that who's doing a lot of the drafting

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<v Speaker 2>and some staffers, and these people are super smart, like

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<v Speaker 2>they this is not just willy nilly, like hey what

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<v Speaker 2>do you want? What do you want? Like these people

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<v Speaker 2>really understand the nuances involved. Because you've got bank, you've

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<v Speaker 2>got banking regulation, you've got securities regulation, You've got commodities

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<v Speaker 2>and derivatives regulation, and they all have to reconcile because

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<v Speaker 2>in the US we create clear delineations between those concepts.

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<v Speaker 2>And this also let's stop brand in a second, but

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<v Speaker 2>this also mandates a lot of cooperation between the agencies.

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<v Speaker 2>If you look at the different sections, you just take

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<v Speaker 2>a look at the summary sections, and it does actually

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<v Speaker 2>mandate cooperation. That's always been a hard thing, right between

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<v Speaker 2>the FED and the OCC and the FDAC and the

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<v Speaker 2>SEC and the CFTC. Who does what? Who gets to

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<v Speaker 2>stop somebody from doing something? You know? And and so

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<v Speaker 2>I like, in very many ways the direction this is going.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that with the likelihood that maybe the banks,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess you could consider, based on what we've seen

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<v Speaker 1>so far, that they didn't get everything they wanted, do

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<v Speaker 1>you think they would reposition their lobby efforts towards the

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<v Speaker 1>OCC in terms of the policy descriptions.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think the last ditch effort is Elizabeth Moore

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<v Speaker 2>and herself, who who is you know, just hell bent

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<v Speaker 2>on you know, killing any innovation in the banking space

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<v Speaker 2>that's not self serving. And you know, look, her stated

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<v Speaker 2>goal is to socialize the banking system. If you tokenize

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<v Speaker 2>assets and create an infinite number of stable coins, that

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<v Speaker 2>is the opposite of socializing the banking system. What China

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<v Speaker 2>has done is socializing the banking system. Everybody gets a

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<v Speaker 2>social credit credit score. You stay in line. If you don't,

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<v Speaker 2>your social score goes down, which affects your ability to

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<v Speaker 2>transact and a commerce at a free society. And and

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<v Speaker 2>so that is that that's evil to me. Like, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not even gonna sugarcoat it's it's not a difference of opinion. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>it is a difference of opinion, and one side is

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<v Speaker 2>evil and one side is not. And I've never experienced

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<v Speaker 2>that in my life because I'm a technologist at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the day who happens to understand money and

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<v Speaker 2>and and so the idea that it's an existential fight

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<v Speaker 2>of good versus evil is not something I've ever had

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<v Speaker 2>to deal with before. And yeah, okay, she may be

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<v Speaker 2>misguided as opposed to like, genuinely evil. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>her personally, but but this has to be stopped, right

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<v Speaker 2>this march towards The best way to stop the methodical

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<v Speaker 2>march towards a socialized banking system is a decentralized system

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<v Speaker 2>with no off switch exactly. That's what we represent well.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think this is the thing that really starts

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<v Speaker 1>to boil down into what's happening right now in DC,

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<v Speaker 1>just to get everybody on board with this. You are

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<v Speaker 1>talking about some pretty significant changes right now. Currently, the

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<v Speaker 1>Banking Committee members have filed over one hundred amendments yep.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is ahead of you know, this week's market vote,

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<v Speaker 1>which is tomorrow. Can you imagine the amount of amendments now.

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<v Speaker 1>I've talked to many lobbyists in DC. I've talked to

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<v Speaker 1>several of the Senators, and they all tell me one thing,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is many of these things are ponds in

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<v Speaker 1>a chess game that they're playing behind the scenes. Is

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<v Speaker 1>there any area right now that you're concerned that you

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<v Speaker 1>think is at risk, whether it's DeFi privacy protections, possibly

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<v Speaker 1>even attack again on the yield side, Where do you

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<v Speaker 1>see the weaknesses?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a good question. I think that if you're

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<v Speaker 2>a operating as an exchange, you're probably going to want

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<v Speaker 2>federal licensing. As a result of the Clarity Act, it

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<v Speaker 2>probably weakens the position of states around leveraging money transmission

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<v Speaker 2>rules and makes it more likely that companies would want

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<v Speaker 2>to operate under federal regime. Now that having been said,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a bunch of things in here that create safe harbors,

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<v Speaker 2>and some of hester Pierce's Piers's ideas around that safe

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<v Speaker 2>harbor are baked in here, which I find super interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>And also, I think even independent of that, the SEC

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<v Speaker 2>and CFTC were already moving in that direction, partially based

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<v Speaker 2>upon on their ability to interpret existing law, but partially

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<v Speaker 2>I think based upon their guess work as to where

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<v Speaker 2>this was this was going. So so I think I

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<v Speaker 2>can see some states being not too happy about this individually,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, especially the ones that might be little, say,

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<v Speaker 2>a little more heavy handed, but there's very little, in

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<v Speaker 2>my opinion, they can do about that. I think this

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<v Speaker 2>bill is is very good for consumers. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to encourage a lot of the offshoring of crypto

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<v Speaker 2>back on shore. Right. So, I know you're asking about

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<v Speaker 2>things that would be concerned about, and I'm gonna flip

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<v Speaker 2>it a little bit and say, the biggest thing I

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<v Speaker 2>would be concerned about is crypto continuing to move offshore

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<v Speaker 2>as it relates to providing services to Americans. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, if I'm in Dubai. I don't mind buying

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<v Speaker 2>a service provider who's based in Dubai. But as an American,

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<v Speaker 2>you know why am I using FTX based in the Bahamas.

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<v Speaker 2>Well because they couldn't figure out how to operate on shore. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>now you may say, okay, they were committing fra aud this,

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<v Speaker 2>that and the other thing. But but the bottom line

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<v Speaker 2>is is that if I think if you had this,

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<v Speaker 2>my guess is they would have operated on shore. They

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have done the stupid things they were doing, and

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<v Speaker 2>all of that mess and bruhaha from Celsius, Block five

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<v Speaker 2>Voyage or FTX whatever could have been avoided.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to take a minute, guys and just invite

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<v Speaker 1>you to join the barn Market Edge private member group.

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00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.640
<v Speaker 1>You guys can do that by just clicking the link

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00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.079
<v Speaker 1>down in our description. This is your insider's edge to

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<v Speaker 1>the AI and crypto money revolution, which is what we

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00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:35.319
<v Speaker 1>really focus on here on PBN. This is additional research

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<v Speaker 1>that I do along with our team, and we have

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty significant team on our research around not only

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00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:43.680
<v Speaker 1>what guides our episodes, but a lot of that research

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<v Speaker 1>gets built into more content that I drop here on

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00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:50.519
<v Speaker 1>the baron Market Edge. We do market trends and sentiment analysis,

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00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:54.480
<v Speaker 1>which can be anything from tokens to all sorts of strategies.

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00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.599
<v Speaker 1>This of course will also guide you over to our

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00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.119
<v Speaker 1>Telegram group and we give this as elite community access.

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00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.519
<v Speaker 1>You get bonus content over there, including tax guides as

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00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.920
<v Speaker 1>well as different kinds of asset guides out there that

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<v Speaker 1>we drop all the time. This is your ten year

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00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.440
<v Speaker 1>vision in action. All you have to do, of course,

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00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:17.880
<v Speaker 1>is just hit that little subscribe button or join the

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00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:20.920
<v Speaker 1>community and get in on it. It's absolutely free, it

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00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.440
<v Speaker 1>doesn't cost you a thing, so check it out. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>That's an interesting point is that the I guess the

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<v Speaker 1>limitation of our own government not really opening up for

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<v Speaker 1>one of the most innovative categories and sectors out there

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<v Speaker 1>early enough has really kind of put us behind the

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<v Speaker 1>eight ball in terms of innovation. But at the same

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<v Speaker 1>time you would also argue, well, this is the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>financial market in the world. We catch up pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think the US's position again with clarity getting through.

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<v Speaker 1>If it does, do you think the US position can

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<v Speaker 1>truly be a pole position in crypto or do you

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<v Speaker 1>think we risk losing this to Asia?

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<v Speaker 2>I actually think this strengtion, we leap frog a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of what others have done via Genius and Clariac, and

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<v Speaker 2>that is astounding to me. I mean it was dire

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<v Speaker 2>four years ago. Yeah, for sure, I mean literally dire.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not this is not iperble. And so for us

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<v Speaker 2>to be in a position to leap frog the the

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<v Speaker 2>industry from a regulatory perspective is not something that I

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<v Speaker 2>had on my bingo card four years ago. I'll tell

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<v Speaker 2>you that. Yeah, I was just like, how is the

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<v Speaker 2>US crypto industry going to survive? Given this mostly illegal

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<v Speaker 2>onslaught of never ending you know, regulation by enforcement, And

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<v Speaker 2>this genuinely undoes that and creates a viable framework. And

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<v Speaker 2>so a couple of examples, right, what does it mean

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<v Speaker 2>to be decentralized? It defines network tokens clearly, right, which

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<v Speaker 2>the last you know, under the last administration, everything was

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<v Speaker 2>as security and so having that clarity right there, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>And again they do provide text for explicit tests for

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<v Speaker 2>decentralization in general, and I have no problem with that.

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<v Speaker 2>If something doesn't have an off switch in general, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm giving you my interpretation, it's sufficiently decentralized by definition,

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<v Speaker 2>because you can't turn it off. So if there's no

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<v Speaker 2>one you can sue, because it's already out there, it's

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<v Speaker 2>already on and you can't turn that off. It should

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<v Speaker 2>be deemed decentralized. And from what I can gather based

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<v Speaker 2>upon again the intelligent people that I've been working on this,

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<v Speaker 2>they're trying to build a legal framework that provides legal

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<v Speaker 2>ease for what I just said in a non legal

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<v Speaker 2>ese way. And that's great. That's you know again, it's

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<v Speaker 2>I keep saying the same thing in different ways, but

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<v Speaker 2>that's what we've been asking for all along.

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<v Speaker 1>Senator Warren came in with forty amendments to your point,

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<v Speaker 1>not surprising. We thought it might be more. But one

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<v Speaker 1>is preventing the Federal Reserve from issuing master accounts to

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<v Speaker 1>crypto companies. Do you think, because again that's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>securing the shore of what her constituents and donors are

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<v Speaker 1>really about, do you think that has any potential of

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<v Speaker 1>making it through?

418
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.160
<v Speaker 2>And the I think that's absurd, and I think it's

419
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:24.960
<v Speaker 2>probably illegal. I mean, what is a crypto company?

420
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:25.519
<v Speaker 1>Right?

421
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:28.799
<v Speaker 2>You started the conversation by asking how we pivoted from

422
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.279
<v Speaker 2>a legal perspective in terms of how we operate. But

423
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:34.000
<v Speaker 2>if I go get an OCC charter explicitly to operate

424
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.000
<v Speaker 2>as a token ized bank, I'm going to have a

425
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:40.400
<v Speaker 2>FED master account and that's just the way the FED

426
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:41.480
<v Speaker 2>operates technically.

427
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:43.640
<v Speaker 1>JP Morgan would be a crypto company right now.

428
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.279
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, That's my point, And so that the whole discussion

429
00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:48.920
<v Speaker 2>becomes absurd under this model.

430
00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:54.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how does she? I guess in the position, And

431
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:57.400
<v Speaker 1>I understand you know where you think it's going, but

432
00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:01.079
<v Speaker 1>we don't know that it is truly an evil mission

433
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.720
<v Speaker 1>of trying to do this to the American financial system.

434
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.839
<v Speaker 1>But why do you think we're seeing such such deviation

435
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:12.599
<v Speaker 1>between the really the Republicans of the Democrats right now?

436
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:16.240
<v Speaker 1>It appears that the Republicans seem to be very pro crypto,

437
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:18.960
<v Speaker 1>most of which we've got to get a handful of

438
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.519
<v Speaker 1>senators through some very key ones on the Democratic sides.

439
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't you think that the Democrats would take this as

440
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:29.240
<v Speaker 1>an opportunity and use this to leverage into midterms.

441
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a couple of things going on, right So

442
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:35.759
<v Speaker 2>the reality is there are Democrats that support this, and

443
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the biggest problem with the Democrats that support this is Trump.

444
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:46.599
<v Speaker 2>And so there's just this, you know, divide Now it

445
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.480
<v Speaker 2>was a similar thing like you know, if you go

446
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.680
<v Speaker 2>back fifteen years when when Obama was in office, there

447
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:54.039
<v Speaker 2>was in similar kind of I don't know ideological, I'm

448
00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:55.960
<v Speaker 2>not a politician what the right word is, but that

449
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.880
<v Speaker 2>divide was basically you know, block block block and we

450
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:02.440
<v Speaker 2>have a similar thing going on right now, block block

451
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:05.000
<v Speaker 2>block And I'll say straight up, you know, as somebody

452
00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:09.640
<v Speaker 2>who voted for this administration, you know, launching meme coins

453
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:13.839
<v Speaker 2>owning businesses in the space probably wasn't the best way

454
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:17.680
<v Speaker 2>to start, you know, within the administration. It didn't provide

455
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.359
<v Speaker 2>a good look, right, And so yes, I wish they

456
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:23.160
<v Speaker 2>hadn't done that. But the reality is is the good

457
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:27.960
<v Speaker 2>that they've done so far outweighs everything that I might

458
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.319
<v Speaker 2>say I wish they hadn't done. It's just to me,

459
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:34.160
<v Speaker 2>it's just it's like dwarfs everything else. And so so

460
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:37.480
<v Speaker 2>listening to them just say block block bloc when I

461
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.720
<v Speaker 2>know via one on one conversations from people who are

462
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.160
<v Speaker 2>in the know with certain Democrats that they fully support

463
00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:46.359
<v Speaker 2>this because they know it's the future. They actually like

464
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.960
<v Speaker 2>the technology. Some of them are invested in the technology themselves,

465
00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:55.359
<v Speaker 2>and so that's the power of you know, the Elizabeth

466
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Warrens of the party who are hell bent, like I said,

467
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:04.000
<v Speaker 2>on socializing the system during the next you know, potential crisis.

468
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.839
<v Speaker 1>One of the big topics we get into here on

469
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.920
<v Speaker 1>this show is really getting debasement, you know, getting away

470
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:14.599
<v Speaker 1>from dollar exposure. You look at some of the things

471
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:16.400
<v Speaker 1>that are happening right now. Is just looking at four

472
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.039
<v Speaker 1>X data. I'll bring that up on screen for everybody

473
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:21.680
<v Speaker 1>so you can kind of see what I'm referencing. But

474
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:24.400
<v Speaker 1>this is a good example. This is the share of

475
00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:27.880
<v Speaker 1>global foreign currency reserves, which have fallen to its lowest

476
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:33.519
<v Speaker 1>level this century. So to me, when you look at

477
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the movement into cryptodigital assets token it is treasuries et cetera. Bill,

478
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.359
<v Speaker 1>how long do you think we will be before we

479
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.680
<v Speaker 1>really the dollar is no longer the global reserve. Do

480
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:47.000
<v Speaker 1>you think that's in our lifetime?

481
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:50.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean the transition is happening now. That's why

482
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 2>we saw the run up in gold. Right, So let

483
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:57.160
<v Speaker 2>me break it down from a macro perspective. Right, So,

484
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:01.400
<v Speaker 2>FED tried to low or interest rates I think three

485
00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:06.359
<v Speaker 2>times in the last current cycle. Each time. Now when

486
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:10.000
<v Speaker 2>they do that Normally, what's supposed to happen is miny

487
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:12.759
<v Speaker 2>long term rates are supposed to start to trickle down. Right,

488
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.880
<v Speaker 2>That didn't happen all three times they spiked. Why why

489
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.440
<v Speaker 2>is this happening? Well, this chart is very telling, right,

490
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:26.559
<v Speaker 2>So our debt is simply unsustainable. When you basically create

491
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>more and more and more of something, right, you reduce scarcity.

492
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:35.200
<v Speaker 2>And unfortunately, in this case, the scarcity of our debt

493
00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:38.359
<v Speaker 2>is just going away. We are producing an infinite amount

494
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.759
<v Speaker 2>of it, and we've reached a point where the debt

495
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:45.039
<v Speaker 2>servicing is costing us a trillion dollars a year. It's

496
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.559
<v Speaker 2>more than the defense budget. Right, so maybe not before Iran,

497
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.480
<v Speaker 2>but but certainly before a round it was more than

498
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:55.359
<v Speaker 2>the defense budget. That is untenable if your goal is

499
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.680
<v Speaker 2>to be the global reserve currency, because no one is

500
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.319
<v Speaker 2>going to support you because eventually demand for your debt

501
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:06.079
<v Speaker 2>is going to not be sufficient versus the supply of

502
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:09.799
<v Speaker 2>debt you're creating. So the only way to deal with that, well,

503
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:12.279
<v Speaker 2>there's two ways to deal with that. The first is

504
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.119
<v Speaker 2>not good. That's usually war, and that's what Dalio writes

505
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:17.920
<v Speaker 2>about when he talks about, you know, changing world orders

506
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:21.279
<v Speaker 2>and rising fall of empires, says, look at bond markets,

507
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and he's right. But the second thing is interest rates

508
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:28.680
<v Speaker 2>have to skyrocket, right, because if the demand just isn't there,

509
00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:30.319
<v Speaker 2>you even have to keep paying more and more and

510
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:32.960
<v Speaker 2>more to create the demand. And that just basically creates

511
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:36.200
<v Speaker 2>a vicious cycle because the interest payments have to come

512
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:40.559
<v Speaker 2>from somewhere, and it either comes from taxes or printing money.

513
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.720
<v Speaker 2>And if you print money, the debasement just accelerates. And

514
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 2>I think we're in that mode now where taxes are untenable.

515
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Right.

516
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:54.079
<v Speaker 2>The only thing that potentially staves off a hyperinflation cycle

517
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:57.880
<v Speaker 2>from a late stage empire like this is massive increase

518
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:01.359
<v Speaker 2>in productivity. Right. If Elon is right and we have

519
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:04.599
<v Speaker 2>a trillion robots doing a trillion new things, yes, we

520
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.720
<v Speaker 2>could get to the point in five years where we

521
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:10.400
<v Speaker 2>have huge, massive gains in productivity which could increase GDP,

522
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:15.480
<v Speaker 2>which could negate the effect of the debatement cycle. But

523
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:17.960
<v Speaker 2>we're not even close to that right now. Right, And

524
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:20.599
<v Speaker 2>so if you're living in the here and now, we have.

525
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Probable to take a minute, guys, and just so to

526
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.720
<v Speaker 1>join this Baronation Edge private member group, you guys will

527
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:30.799
<v Speaker 1>do that by just clicking the reds down in our description,

528
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:34.960
<v Speaker 1>this is your insider's edge to the crypto money revolution,

529
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.720
<v Speaker 1>which is what we're really focused on here on.

530
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 2>P the last two.

531
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>This is additional research.

532
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:42.559
<v Speaker 3>That I do or along with this pill and we

533
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:47.319
<v Speaker 3>have on our research around only what insides our episodes,

534
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:50.880
<v Speaker 3>but a lot of that research gets built more content

535
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:51.519
<v Speaker 3>that I drop.

536
00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Up here on the bar and market registration.

537
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:58.480
<v Speaker 1>We do more trendsit sentiment analysis, question tokens to all

538
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.960
<v Speaker 1>sorts of strategies solved the this of course, it will

539
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.880
<v Speaker 1>also guide you over to our telegram group and we

540
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.640
<v Speaker 1>give this as a leaf community access. You get bonus

541
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.960
<v Speaker 1>content over there. Do you think that this uh well

542
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.759
<v Speaker 1>has different out there that we never all the time?

543
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.039
<v Speaker 1>Not a chance. This is your opens ten year vision continues.

544
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.839
<v Speaker 1>All you have to do is hit it's going to

545
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:23.960
<v Speaker 1>go to jobel there and that you got pressure on

546
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:27.119
<v Speaker 1>China and are ututely free. Those are just your things.

547
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:30.119
<v Speaker 1>It opens up lanes here in the US to drive

548
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:34.279
<v Speaker 1>more petroleum products out of the US and become somewhat

549
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.920
<v Speaker 1>of a nets supplier to the world. Do you think

550
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:42.839
<v Speaker 1>this is part of the potential to try to stabilize

551
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:44.039
<v Speaker 1>where the dollar is heading.

552
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, look like I said, it's it's the

553
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.880
<v Speaker 2>problem is is demand, and you showed it on your chart.

554
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Demand for dollar reserves is waning. It's a function, it's

555
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:55.200
<v Speaker 2>it's it's all related, right.

556
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

557
00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Now, the demand for treasuries was stabilizing before Iran. My

558
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:04.079
<v Speaker 2>guess is that it's probably decreased since then.

559
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

560
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:08.240
<v Speaker 2>But but you know, China is clearly a net seller.

561
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:11.799
<v Speaker 2>Japan was a net seller. The US convinced them to

562
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:15.519
<v Speaker 2>basically stabilize. And remember when the carry trade was starting

563
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.119
<v Speaker 2>to unwind last summer, the effect that that had. Europe

564
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:24.200
<v Speaker 2>is clearly not interested in buying oodles of American debt

565
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.200
<v Speaker 2>at this point, and so the problem is the same, right,

566
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:33.920
<v Speaker 2>The only real guarantee, Well, there's two guaranteed buyers of

567
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.480
<v Speaker 2>our debt right now. The first is tether, which seems

568
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:40.960
<v Speaker 2>to have an infinite appetite for US treasuries because of

569
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.200
<v Speaker 2>the adoption of stable coins slash tether slash circle. And

570
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.519
<v Speaker 2>the second is ourselves, which is not a good look

571
00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:50.160
<v Speaker 2>when you start buying your own debt, because the only

572
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:51.960
<v Speaker 2>way to do that is to print more money, and

573
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.240
<v Speaker 2>that's what we're doing. Right, So, so you know this

574
00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:59.640
<v Speaker 2>is just gonna be another inflation trade, and I think

575
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 2>you're going and basically see the norm get back to

576
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:06.960
<v Speaker 2>four to five percent this year unless something dramatic happens

577
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.440
<v Speaker 2>in Iran and oil prices plummets, which is possible. I

578
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.359
<v Speaker 2>hope that happens, but right now, I don't have any

579
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.079
<v Speaker 2>visibility to that happening. Right, We're going to see four

580
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:19.240
<v Speaker 2>to five percent sustained inflation, maybe with spikes up or down.

581
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. Well, and this starts to rotate into

582
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:27.160
<v Speaker 1>the midterms. This is something that I thought was interesting.

583
00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:30.359
<v Speaker 1>I want to get your opinion on this, andresen Horowitz

584
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:32.839
<v Speaker 1>and I'll bring this up on screen so you can

585
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:35.799
<v Speaker 1>see it. And reason Horowitz now plowing in a ton

586
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.559
<v Speaker 1>of money into the midterms. Another one hundred and fifteen

587
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:40.880
<v Speaker 1>firm now spending one hundred and fifteen million on politics

588
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:46.079
<v Speaker 1>in this cycle, not ever seen by a VC firm before.

589
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:51.160
<v Speaker 1>So this tells me something that what are they concerned

590
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.839
<v Speaker 1>about going into the midterms? Is there anything that you

591
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:55.119
<v Speaker 1>think is going to pivot here?

592
00:33:55.200 --> 00:34:00.720
<v Speaker 2>What's happening they're concerned about? AI? Mostly now if if

593
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.039
<v Speaker 2>if you're in the know, and VC land. You know

594
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.119
<v Speaker 2>that the powers that be in Silicon Valley were called

595
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:08.559
<v Speaker 2>to the White House under Biden and and that we're,

596
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:10.880
<v Speaker 2>in no uncertain terms, told to pack it up as

597
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:13.360
<v Speaker 2>it relates to AI, right. Uh, you know, we're going

598
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:16.119
<v Speaker 2>to own it, We're going to regulate it. There's not

599
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:18.480
<v Speaker 2>going to be a free market, and and it's just

600
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:20.760
<v Speaker 2>not going to happen. That's what they were told, right.

601
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.159
<v Speaker 2>And that was the biggest wake up call in history

602
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:27.400
<v Speaker 2>for for Silicon Valley from a political perspective, right, And

603
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:33.239
<v Speaker 2>and it galvanized Silicon Valley into the arms of this administration.

604
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.599
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of my friends who are not even

605
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:40.280
<v Speaker 2>armchair politics politicians politicians are interested in politics now all

606
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:42.880
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden are paying big time attention or even

607
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.800
<v Speaker 2>involved in this administration. And I actually think that's a

608
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:48.239
<v Speaker 2>good thing because I think getting people, uh, from a

609
00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:52.360
<v Speaker 2>citizen activism perspective involved, regardless of whether you were doing

610
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:53.920
<v Speaker 2>that under Obama, because I have a lot of friends

611
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:56.400
<v Speaker 2>who did that under the Obama administration. People who became

612
00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:59.719
<v Speaker 2>politically involved for the first time took jobs in the

613
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:01.559
<v Speaker 2>State Department. It was a little bit different. It wasn't

614
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.840
<v Speaker 2>so much technology as it is now. But I pull

615
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:06.880
<v Speaker 2>it that right, and I don't think that I don't

616
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:08.880
<v Speaker 2>believe in the idea of a career politician, by the way,

617
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.119
<v Speaker 2>so as a libertarian, but that's a different issue, right.

618
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>So I think that to get to your point your question,

619
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:20.559
<v Speaker 2>this is about AI, right, the progress that we've made

620
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.639
<v Speaker 2>and the potential to lose that progress is existential crisis

621
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.719
<v Speaker 2>for the is a potential existential crisis for the United

622
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:31.039
<v Speaker 2>States in this new type of Cold war that's going

623
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:35.840
<v Speaker 2>on between the US and China, right, And so that

624
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.440
<v Speaker 2>is you know from I haven't talked to them about this,

625
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 2>but I can easily see, you know how them discussing

626
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:45.039
<v Speaker 2>this of the in the in the format of this

627
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:46.119
<v Speaker 2>is a fight to the death.

628
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:48.320
<v Speaker 1>And so.

629
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:51.960
<v Speaker 2>When you say they're spending one hundred million, when you

630
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.800
<v Speaker 2>look at it from that perspective and they're literally investing

631
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.079
<v Speaker 2>tens of billions of dollars, it's actly a pretty small

632
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:01.599
<v Speaker 2>insurance policy if you think you're gonna wine. Yeah.

633
00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:04.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, And I think the point being is that at

634
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:09.440
<v Speaker 1>some at some point, don't you think that the new

635
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:14.960
<v Speaker 1>age of lawmakers are going to realize the two critical

636
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:21.119
<v Speaker 1>components of future innovation AI crypto organization and truly adopted

637
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.360
<v Speaker 1>by partisan wouldn't you assume this is going to happen?

638
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Well once it Okay, so once it happens, and it's

639
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.320
<v Speaker 2>very complete because it's you know, everybody just makes it

640
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:34.360
<v Speaker 2>their own idea. That's how politics works, right Like you know,

641
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:36.679
<v Speaker 2>I invented the internet like kind of thing with val Gore,

642
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:41.559
<v Speaker 2>right so so so that will happen. And by the way,

643
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:43.400
<v Speaker 2>I think those things all merge into part of the

644
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:47.719
<v Speaker 2>same thing, right AI. It's tokenization, crypto rails, smart contracts,

645
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:50.840
<v Speaker 2>they all become part of of a new financial order

646
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.000
<v Speaker 2>because AI agents that have already taken over part in

647
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:55.880
<v Speaker 2>my life are actually going to be based on crypto

648
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:59.760
<v Speaker 2>rails anyway. But I think, I think what's going to

649
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:02.320
<v Speaker 2>happen and is and politicians are exceedingly good at this

650
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.280
<v Speaker 2>is you know, making things their own idea when it's

651
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:09.159
<v Speaker 2>self serving. And that's even I'm referring to people i've

652
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:11.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, supported publicly as well. And that's fine as

653
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.840
<v Speaker 2>long as the public gets what it wants and what

654
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.320
<v Speaker 2>it should have, which is you know, air first of all,

655
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.639
<v Speaker 2>airing on the side of freedom and getting out of

656
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.559
<v Speaker 2>the way and only getting in the way when it

657
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:28.639
<v Speaker 2>really absolutely needs to, which is very rarely in.

658
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:32.800
<v Speaker 1>My opinion, Yeah, for sure, exactly try to get away

659
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:37.440
<v Speaker 1>from avoiding conflict I think with the American people when

660
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.679
<v Speaker 1>it comes to just innovation, building businesses. Examples that we're

661
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.519
<v Speaker 1>dealing with right now, Clarity Act passes. You have to

662
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:47.559
<v Speaker 1>pick three winners. Who do you think they would be?

663
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:51.320
<v Speaker 1>And this industry wise, or it could be Americans, it

664
00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:53.079
<v Speaker 1>could be you know, who do you think that three

665
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:53.599
<v Speaker 1>would be.

666
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:58.960
<v Speaker 2>I think the wealth industry is going to be pushed

667
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:02.719
<v Speaker 2>to migrate to tokenization as a result of this, and

668
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:05.400
<v Speaker 2>so you're going to see a crop of AI based

669
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:11.480
<v Speaker 2>robo advisors that offer you know, tokenized and automated portfolio

670
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.159
<v Speaker 2>creation capabilities. That's something that you know, I think is

671
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:19.960
<v Speaker 2>a big part of Abra's future. You know, ultimately, you know,

672
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.519
<v Speaker 2>as a fiduciary for our clients, we're always looking for

673
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:28.719
<v Speaker 2>ways to help them navigate their own requirements, risk profiles,

674
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.639
<v Speaker 2>it's et cetera, et cetera. So I think that you know,

675
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:34.199
<v Speaker 2>it's a little self survey. I apologize, but I think

676
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:37.280
<v Speaker 2>we're very well positioned as as a result of what

677
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.880
<v Speaker 2>we're reading and Honestly, that was mostly a function of

678
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:45.039
<v Speaker 2>us surmising where we think this had to go, based

679
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.280
<v Speaker 2>upon everything that had happened and what we were hearing

680
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.719
<v Speaker 2>from the administration. And and so that's number one. I

681
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:56.519
<v Speaker 2>think the banks are actually winners here, and so you know,

682
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:00.599
<v Speaker 2>and I also think that the startup world to DeFi

683
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:04.440
<v Speaker 2>is actually the third big winner here. The ability for

684
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:10.159
<v Speaker 2>decentralized systems to you know, be created from nothing, to

685
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:13.679
<v Speaker 2>have their big bang moments and potentially go from raising

686
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:16.320
<v Speaker 2>money in what would be a security offering to becoming

687
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:21.360
<v Speaker 2>fully decentralized. That's the path from sidnadio to decentralization that

688
00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:24.760
<v Speaker 2>we always said needed to be clarified. And that's you know,

689
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking myself into it, but that's probably the most

690
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.000
<v Speaker 2>important thing long term here is not even ABRA or

691
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:36.239
<v Speaker 2>the banks. It's the ability for decentralized systems to basically

692
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:40.880
<v Speaker 2>be combusted into existence and go from raising money via

693
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:44.159
<v Speaker 2>security sale to being sufficiently decentralized.

694
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, we've seen and the model has been in place

695
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:50.159
<v Speaker 1>for DeFi. We've seen so many different winners and a

696
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:52.800
<v Speaker 1>lot of the ecosystems out there, I would call Salona

697
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.480
<v Speaker 1>being one of the big ones that has really created

698
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:59.440
<v Speaker 1>a lot of kings, and the likelihood is we'll see

699
00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:02.519
<v Speaker 1>MA maybe ten x fifty x one hundred of x

700
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:05.360
<v Speaker 1>of that in the coming years. How long do you

701
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.760
<v Speaker 1>think you know, you and I both probably were around

702
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.679
<v Speaker 1>in the era when I was a young engineer at

703
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:16.639
<v Speaker 1>Microsoft in nineteen ninety six through seven, just getting into Microsoft,

704
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:19.800
<v Speaker 1>the birth of the Internet and then the obviously the

705
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:25.039
<v Speaker 1>dop bomb, but the creation period after that was significant

706
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:28.360
<v Speaker 1>and it happened fairly quickly. What do you think that

707
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Speaker 1>looks like in terms of the Bell curve for crypto?

708
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:33.639
<v Speaker 2>I was at Netscape when you were at Microsoft, and

709
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:37.840
<v Speaker 2>when we were mortal enemies. Yeah, exactly. I think I

710
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:43.800
<v Speaker 2>testified at one point and against you guys. So look, historically,

711
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.960
<v Speaker 2>when you have these kind of bubbles and crashes, yeah,

712
00:40:48.039 --> 00:40:52.440
<v Speaker 2>those become the best times for entrepreneurs to build, even

713
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.199
<v Speaker 2>if they don't know it at the time, even if

714
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.400
<v Speaker 2>it's scary and painful, and you know, especially back then,

715
00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:59.679
<v Speaker 2>because you know, being well educated and having a degree

716
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.239
<v Speaker 2>in compute science was like a lottery ticket like that

717
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.440
<v Speaker 2>you knew was going to win. That's not necessarily the

718
00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:09.800
<v Speaker 2>case today, except if you're willing to basically take the

719
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:13.360
<v Speaker 2>proverbial risk to be an AI entrepreneur. You can kind

720
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:16.719
<v Speaker 2>of trip over something useful, interesting that you know people

721
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:21.800
<v Speaker 2>will pay for. But that's historically the best time to

722
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:25.039
<v Speaker 2>be to be an entrepreneur in my mind. And this

723
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:28.280
<v Speaker 2>is by far the best time in history that I've

724
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:31.000
<v Speaker 2>ever seen for a twenty something out of school to

725
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>start a company. You know, the big challenge in the nineties,

726
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:42.320
<v Speaker 2>the dot com era, the mobile app era was always

727
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:44.519
<v Speaker 2>about do you know how to build a sustainable company.

728
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:48.400
<v Speaker 2>That's That's not a problem right now, That's not that's

729
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:50.320
<v Speaker 2>not the key challenge here, because you're going to see

730
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:52.760
<v Speaker 2>one in two person billion dollar companies come out of

731
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.320
<v Speaker 2>this AI era, and they're going to hire you know,

732
00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:59.400
<v Speaker 2>we work with Goodwin or you know, some accounting firm here,

733
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:02.320
<v Speaker 2>accounting Silicon Valley that's going to basically act as your

734
00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.360
<v Speaker 2>finance team, your legal team, you know, and and it's

735
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:07.159
<v Speaker 2>all going to be outsourced. And you're gonna have your

736
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.000
<v Speaker 2>three person startup and and AI is going to enable

737
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:13.400
<v Speaker 2>that I have agents for everything. And and I'm an

738
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:16.719
<v Speaker 2>older guy, right so, so you know, the kids aren't

739
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:19.159
<v Speaker 2>going to know anything different. This is an awesome time.

740
00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:22.119
<v Speaker 1>I think it is too. That's what I tell you know.

741
00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.320
<v Speaker 1>We get a chance to do these wealth seminars and

742
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:26.519
<v Speaker 1>this is the one thing. Most of them are business

743
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:28.519
<v Speaker 1>owners that are coming in and he's trying to explore,

744
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:30.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, how crypto and blockchain are going to be

745
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:33.800
<v Speaker 1>usable in their own businesses, and I'm like, I'm just

746
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.280
<v Speaker 1>so excited for them because I'm like, you're you're you

747
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:40.599
<v Speaker 1>own a business in a time in which innovation is exploding.

748
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:44.440
<v Speaker 1>So totally welcome to the fun. Hey Bill, it's been

749
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:46.920
<v Speaker 1>good having you on today. Thanks for the round up here.

750
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:49.840
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be watching Aber very closely, so we appreciate

751
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:51.239
<v Speaker 1>you stuffing it.

752
00:42:50.840 --> 00:43:02.679
<v Speaker 2>So good to see you. Thanks for having met at

753
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:22.480
<v Speaker 2>the Static the same thests Tott