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Speaker 1: Have you jumped over to Arrow dot net yet. A

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Net A r r oe dot Net Enjoy your exploration.

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Speaker 2: Arrow is broadcasting from his sauna in Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: Boys not the truth. Oh we can get hot down

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here in the South. But I'll tell you what, I

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sure have learning to love the heat though and not

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necessarily run away from it.

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Speaker 2: That's good.

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Speaker 1: But see, and that's the thing about it. I feel

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so weird that, you know, everybody's always complaining about, oh,

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the planet is warming up, and am I the freak

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by going I kind of really want this to happen

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because I think that the heat is such a powerful

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positive thing for our lives.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's it's what we evolved in for starters,

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you know, we suddenly, you know, a million years ago,

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our ancestors who weren't even humans, So it's even before

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humans popped up. Our ancestors developed this ability to sweat randomly,

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and evolution was like, hey, that's good, We're gonna mutate

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that gene like ten times in like a short period

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of time, and suddenly we had all these sweatlands for

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cooling that no other animal has. So we are we

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we are suited for for hot weather. You're not wrong.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, though, that does shock you though,

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when people you know, do that, they do everything to

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get away from the heat and things. They'll drink cold things,

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they'll eat cold things. Everything is cold, cold, cold, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's that's natural thermal regulation. Right. We have

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this desire to keep a stable body temperature, and so

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when we sense that we're getting hot or we feel

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too hot, and that's different for everybody, you do things

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to try and cool off. So you you know, jump

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into cold lake, right, or take clothes off, or eat

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sushi or whatever, you know, anything to cool yourself. It's natural.

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We want to maintain a constant body temperature and heat

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is a threat and our brain knows that. So that's

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why we take measures to do heat. And some of

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those measures are are helpful. Right, sweating's good.

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Speaker 1: But you know where I become confused, though, Bill is

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when your doctor will look at you and say, go

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home and put that on ice, do not use heat.

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And I want to argue with that doctor because why

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all of a sudden is heat not good for us?

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Speaker 2: To these doctors, well, you know that's an old traditional viewpoint.

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You know, you remember the old rice thing, right, rest

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ice compression and elevation. So that was super popular for

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decades and for like one hundred years. And then finally

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the doctor who popularized that, I think his name is

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Gabe Murkin. Ten years ago he came out and said,

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I don't know, the ice thing might not be might

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not be the greatest because some of the stuff that's

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going on with the heat and even inflammation in the

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injury context is actually a healing response. And same with exercise,

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you get inflammation and that turns out drives a lot

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of the beneficial the gains. Essentially, inflammation can be good.

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Speaker 1: See short term, you're changing everything that I believe in.

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And I think that's the reason why I'm so attracted

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to this book, Hotwired, is because you're opening up my

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eyes to a different level of thinking. And then the

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thing about it is I'm one of those activators. If

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I learned something new and I know that it's going

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to be a positive, I'm going to take hot wired

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and I'm going to make it a part of my life.

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Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah, and there's a lot to you know, there's

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a lot. There's different ways to use heat, right. You

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can use it in this in the sort of sauna

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context and you're just kind of sitting around and relaxing

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and maybe talking to friends or along with your thoughts.

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You use it an athlete context right where you deliberately

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and Olympic athletes do this. They deliberately train in the heat,

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and they found that they initially did it so they

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could survive these hotter Olympics, in the hotter Tour of

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France and hotter marathons, and they're finding that training in

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the heat is like altitude training, so it actually makes

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you stronger in all conditions.

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Speaker 1: One of the things where I kind of giggled like

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a child is when I read that you've traveled around

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the world to all these different saunas, And of course

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my heart, because I study Native American spirituality, I thought,

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but has he been inside a sweat lodge? Oh my god,

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what an experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, Sweat lodge is tricky. Sweat lodge is like

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the most intense. It's dark too, yeah uh and super hot,

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right and take no prisoners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when you study. Here's the thing that a lot

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of listeners don't understand. And I realize real readers are

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going to do the same thing. They want to push

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themselves away from the heat because they're uncomfortable with the

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sweat or how your body's reacting. How can we convince

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them to learn how to trust what is happening to

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the inner core of your body.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's trial and error, but I'll say, you know,

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sweat gets a little bit of a bad rap, and

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people don't like to be sweaty because you think it's stinky.

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There's actually two kinds of sweat. There's like the armpit sweat,

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which is like the stinky, gowey, gross stuff, and the

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bacteria to eat that, and the bacteria make the smells, right,

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So that has not a lot to do with heat.

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The other kind of sweat is just water and salt,

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and that's the stuff that's on your forehead, on your chest,

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on your arms, the stuff that cools you off. So

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that stuff doesn't smell. It's fine, it's just water, So

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don't you know, don't be uptight about it.

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Speaker 1: In other words, just get over your ego and quit

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being so vain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah kind of yeah. I mean, you know, nobody wants

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to go, you know, to a job interview covered in sweat, obviously,

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but you know, sweat does get a bit of a

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bad wrap in our culture.

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Speaker 1: You really open up my heart, you know when you're

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talking about thermal philosophy and physiology as well as mental health.

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And the reason why is because I am big into meditation.

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I've just never thought about pulling that warm heat in

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my soul outward through that meditation. I just figured that

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it all comes naturally. But it is something that you've

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got to work on one day at a time, is

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it not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely? And there there are monks and yogis who

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can there's such powerful it's maybe it's not even just meditation,

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but their minds are so powerful. They can actually control

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their body temperature right, like they can make one side

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of their body hotter than the other. Or they're these

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these months in the Tibet who do this meditation that

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that generates heat within their body and in their extremities.

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So the I found that like the mind body connection

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kind of runs through heat to a certain extent, and

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getting warm, the sensation of warmth has sort of mysterious

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effects on your mind that we don't fully understand. I'll

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give you an example. There is a kind of a

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great study that they did where they sent students up

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to do like an interview with a person, and the

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person acted the same every time. But what happened was

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in the elevator, the person guiding the subject up would

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I hand them either a warm cup of coffee or

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a cold cup of coffee iced coffee. People who held

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the warm coffee had a warmer response to their interviewee

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really than the people with the cold iced coffee. So

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the warmth physical warmth translated into interpersonal warmth. It's like wow,

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like how how how does that work? See?

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Speaker 1: I see, Oh, I gotta go real with you here

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for a moment, I drank my nice, warm, hot coffee

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with these interviews throughout the morning, and as that coffee

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is almost well, man, you just explained something to me,

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because as the day goes on and I started drinking

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the cold coffee, all of a sudden, my mindset does

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change on me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, really interesting. Yeah, Well, I'm a little sad too.

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Speaker 1: My coffee's yeah, I just associated with my mother's womb.

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I'll sit there and I'll tell myself, do you think

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that's what it is? Because I thought I was insane

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by thinking like that.

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Speaker 2: Well, sort of existentially, warmth is comfort for us and

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cold is like scary and death and going back thousands

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and thousands of years our ancestors, you know, cold is

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much more dangerous to us than warmth. Right, A warm

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day isn't isn't in Charlotte, isn't going to Isn't that dangerous?

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But it really unseasoned the cold day, A lot of

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a lot of people are gonna, you know, have a

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hard time. Yep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you go below seventy two in Charlotte and

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we're all complaining for months. Oh my god, it was horrible.

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Speaker 2: Ah.

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Speaker 1: In fact, speaking of that, so because I do put

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so much concentration on on heat and its strength and

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what it does to the human imagination. But the thing

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about it is that I do get cold quicker, and

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I don't understand why that is. If the mind wants

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to go back to the heat, so therefore it creates

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the cold to get me to go back the other direction.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think if you spend a lot of time

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in hot situations, you can become heat adapted, and I

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think that that can impact your your cold tolerance to

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a certain extent.

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Speaker 1: You did you like walking those roads when it was

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one hundred degrees? Because man, there is nothing like a

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path when it is so hot outside. Because it's like,

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that's how I get rid of my allergies, That's how

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I get rid of my body aches. That's how I

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can speak to myself clearly, is through the heat. Did

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you go through the same thing?

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Speaker 2: Really? You know, I had an interesting experience. I did

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this thing in Texas, the bike ride called the Hotter

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in Hell one hundred eehaw, and it was terrifying to

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think about. And I went and did heat testing. So

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they tested my heat tolerance in the interested of Connecticut

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and I was terrible. And I did some heat training

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and then I went down as did it. But I

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was really I was scared, you know, scared out of

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my pants the night before. Then I did it. It

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was one hundred and seven degrees on the road and

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I felt fine. It was it was it was surreal. Yeah,

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So I I could do more than I thought I

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think it was interesting, but it was. It was also

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like it was it was almost like an out of

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body experience in that not meditative, but like my mind

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was on a different on a different plane from it

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was a journey.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Bill Gifford coming

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up next. The name of his book is hot Wired.

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The hidden power of heat makes us stronger? Do you

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believe in that? Oh, let's dig in a little bit

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deeper with Bill Gifford. I would love to hear all

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the comments from people that are going to share with

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you there are bad moments with heat, something that they've

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never heard.

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Speaker 2: Let go.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why is because mine Toungue River Reservoir

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right there on the border of Montana and Wyoming one

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hundred and four degrees and everybody goes, do not drink alcohol.

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It will affect you, dude. I have never forgotten that

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day because I didn't have that much, but I would

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I went crazy because because of the alcohol, and it

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wasn't even that much alcohol, but it was the heat

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that infected me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So mentally, oh god, it was horrible. Yeah yeah, yeah.

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I mean you know it's stress, right, heat? Heat? Stress

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is stress, and you know alcohol can exacerbate that. I mean,

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finish people don't have a problem, you know, drinking several

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beers during a sauda session. But yeah, I mean he

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could be stressful. It could be no ly stressed. So

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that's what's interesting about it. It's a it's an uncomfortable,

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stressful experience that can have in the right context, positive

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effects on health, aging, even mental state. One of the

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things environmental heat that you can't escape is a different thing,

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and that can be tough.

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Speaker 1: You're right about that, because it's changing. And the thing

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about it is, though, is that so is the humidity,

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not just here in the South but all over the world.

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And a lot of people up north don't understand what

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this humidity thing is. But see, I see that as

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a positive. It's when it's not here that we begin

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to ache and we creak like old people.

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Speaker 2: I live in a dry place, right, I live in Utah.

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Who hot dry, Your sweat evaporates, which is great. Humidity

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is tough, and you're right, humidity is increasing in many

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in many places. It's it can be tough, but it's

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something that can be adapted to. Also. This heat adaptation

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works in more human conditions as well.

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Speaker 1: Can we finally change the rules of the everyday life

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between men and women because they always said that men

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sweat and women perspire. Can we just flat out say

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that it's time and it's okay for women to sweat

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with us.

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Speaker 2: Women sweat, women like sweating. Yeah. I was at a

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sauna festival in New York City a couple of weeks ago,

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and uh, yeah, there were a lot of women in

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their younger women getting very sweaty, and they seem pretty

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happy about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they walk around democratize.

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Speaker 2: Sweat, right, we need a quality of sweat. Well.

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Speaker 1: I've always believed that's the reason why people don't come

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out of their their workout clothes, because they want the

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world to see look at me, I sweat, I got

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wet man, I did my thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but did they did they? Or they just wearing

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the lemons?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, look at you see. That's that's the

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honesty that people will find in Hot Wired. And the

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thing is is that you really do unveil a lot

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of powerful things and how heat is positive for our lives,

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especially as we start growing into the spring and summer months.

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But my question is I'm that guy that like that

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went into the infrared sauna at the for therapy, bored,

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bored out of my mind, could not wait to get

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out of that thing. And and am I and I

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just be in a dink here.

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Speaker 2: Uh you know, wait, a lot of us are challenge

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I get bored too. And I think a lot of

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us are challenged to to sit with our thoughts and

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not have a phone. And but yeah, I was in

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the sauna yesterday. I was like, oh, it was a

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silent sauna. It was, and I was on my own.

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I was like, it's a little boring. They have so

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in Europe they and increasingly in the States, they have

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these performances that happened in a sauna. Like I'm not kidding.

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They have people will do like a little they'll do

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they'll dance or whatever the music. They'll put like scented

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ice balls on the on the sauna rocks, they'll wave

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towels around and it's a whole like performance thing. I

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think because people get bored in the sauna. I once

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saw like I saw play short play in a sauna,

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like fifteen minute play somebody. I saw somebody do opera

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what aliens called alf goose, And it's it's a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: God, I would like to go in there and cut

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a commercial. Man voice over a commercial. I'd be in

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there going kay ron fifty five songs in a row,

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listen to this voice?

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Speaker 2: Is that? Because?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's good for the voice that heat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the steam to the you know when you

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put the water on the on the rocks and you

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get that humidity. Yeah, and it's good for your skin too.

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Speaker 1: So let's go that route when it comes to heat,

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when you talk about what's coming off those rocks versus.

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There have been some saun as I've been to that

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have been electric and I feel like I fried my

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skin rather than enjoyed the humidity.

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Speaker 2: Of it all exactly. And it's it's like you're it's

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like you're under the sheet lamp, yes, you know, Chili's

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or whatever, and you're just kind of like parching and wilting. Yeah. Yeah,

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you're grilling. You're you're being grilled. Yeah, that's not pleasant.

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So you know, in Finland, I keep going back to Finland.

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They're very particular about the steam they're putting the water

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on the rocks, and it has like they're like they're

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like wine tasters. It has it has a quality to

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it and they judge it.

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Speaker 1: Don't you see though, that the energy inside of our

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bodies is really our superpower that we actually could become

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a Marvel or a DC fanatic or even one of

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these players if we would just learn to trust the

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heat in our body.

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Speaker 2: Oh, if we would just learn to trust our body

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in general. I mean, we're tremendously capable and adaptable and

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smart creatures, right, and we can handle all kinds of environments. Right,

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There's a reason, you know, people lived in North Carolina,

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people lived in you know, ancient humans migrated to Mexico

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to Canada what's now Canada. So we can handle all

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kinds of environments. But heat seems to bring out some

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special abilities because that's where we evolved.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to start seeing you on tour or

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on Hulu or Netflix? Because I would love to see

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a TV show with you on it where you travel

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to every one of these places to do the sauna

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and you get to have conversations with authentic people outside

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as well as inside the sauna.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea. And you know, heat

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has like a bonding like these you're in the sauna context,

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it's kind of like a bonding experience, and that kind

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of goes with the cold plunge as well. If you're

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doing this kind of I think it's because you're in

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this like crazy hot environment that is slightly dangerous and

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it breaks down some In additions, so I've actually made

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some great friends on this journey around the world.

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Speaker 1: Wow, my favorite thing to do inside of sauna. You

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don't even have to speak words. You could just look

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at each other and through your eyes. Yeah, it's damn

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hot in here. How you doing, I'm doing good? Yeah,

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I mean it just just just the body language is

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just so different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's like, yeah, we got this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where can people go to find out more about you? Bill?

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Because I'm so in love with hot Wired, I really

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think that you're tapped into something and that this is

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a new way for people to explore and really discover

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a truer self.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I kind of leave it all on

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the table in the book in certain ways. I'm on

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you know, I'm on the usual social media at Bill

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gifford x Instagram threads. Is anybody uses that, Yeah, I'm

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out there. Yeah. I appreciate your interest in the book,

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and I hope people read it.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well, please come back to this show anytime in

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the future. The door he's always going to be open

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for you.

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Speaker 2: Love to great talking with you will you'd.

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Speaker 1: Be brilliant today and stay hot, dude. Okay YouTube, Okay,

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bye guy.

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Speaker 2: Alright, Errara