WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.600 Welcome to the Nonprofits the show where we discuss current 2 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:05.839 events from an atheist, SECU humanist perspective. 3 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:07.960 In our first story, we look at the. 4 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:12.000 House wise and now what's of some policy changes Mark 5 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:16.399 Zuckerberg is implementing at Meta? Chris Mallard, what is zuck 6 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:16.879 up to? 7 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:21.000 Mark Zuckerberg has announced he's going to stop third part 8 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:24.800 party fact checkers from checking facts at Meta and move 9 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:29.199 to community notes because quote experts, like everyone else, have 10 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:33.280 their own biases and perspectives end quote in an attempt 11 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:37.640 to return to the commitment of free expression. That's great, 12 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:41.320 because what the world really needed was more misinformation and 13 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:45.359 less accountability. I mean, who needs fact checkers when you 14 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.840 have Mark Zuckerberg and other facebooker's gut feelings about what's 15 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:53.280 true and what's not. It's not like he's ever been 16 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.679 wrong before Cameron Analytica in case you were there for that. 17 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:01.799 But seriously, folks, who needs to verify information when we 18 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:04.799 can just let the community decide what's true and what's not. 19 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:07.680 It's not like that's ever led to the spread of 20 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:12.120 conspiracy theories or the erosion of trust and institutions. And hey, 21 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:15.319 if a few people get hurt or misled along the way. Well, 22 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.680 that's just the price of progress. And what could possibly 23 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:21.280 go wrong with letting a bunch of random people on 24 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.239 the internet decide what's true and what's not. I mean, 25 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:28.959 let's be real. Fact checkers were just so restrictive. I mean, 26 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:31.920 who wants to be limited by things like facts and 27 00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:34.840 evidence when you can just make stuff up and see 28 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:38.200 what sticks. It's like Mark Zuckerberg said, or is saying, 29 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.439 you know what, We've been too careful for too long. 30 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:45.239 It's time to let our hair down and just see 31 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:48.680 what happens. And the best part, it's obviously just a 32 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:52.159 coincidence that Mark Zuckerberg is making this announcement right after 33 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.000 Trump's team gave him a heads up that they were 34 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:58.439 going to do to be cracking down on social media 35 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:03.879 companies for saying things the administration doesn't like. So to 36 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.079 all the fact checkers out there, don't worry. You'll be 37 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:09.280 just fine. I'm sure you'll find plenty of other work, 38 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:12.879 maybe as a journalist or something. Journalists they still have 39 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:18.000 those just kidding, I've heard those of disappearing too. Yeah, 40 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:20.639 But in all seriousness, this is a dark day for 41 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:25.039 truth and accountability. And to Mark Zuckerberg, I say, congratulations, 42 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:28.439 you've managed to make a bad situation even worse. That 43 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:32.240 takes skill, dedication. Maybe you can add it to your 44 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:37.280 resume expert. It's spreading misinformation and undermining trust and institutions. Yeah, 45 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:39.960 that's a real selling point. This story is from Slate 46 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.960 magazine by Natishpawa on January eighth, twenty twenty five. 47 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:46.560 Well, if you're going to do something, be the best 48 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:48.719 at it. That's right, Isn't that the Isn't that the 49 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:55.280 goal there? So, Chris, we are hearing cries of doom 50 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:57.560 and gloom from the left, and we're hearing more of 51 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.360 the nothing to see here from the right. How much 52 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:02.719 do you think that these changes are going to change 53 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:04.639 the face of social media? 54 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.319 Well, you know, really, to be honest, how much did 55 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:13.159 the the fact checkers really do before? I mean, they 56 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.599 were there and they did to some degree, But I 57 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.439 don't know. I don't think it's going to help. I 58 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:19.639 don't think in the beginning it's going to change a lot. 59 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.960 But it sounds like it could be front for because, 60 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:27.639 like you mentioned, or is mentioned in the reading that 61 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:31.000 Donald Trump. This is right after Donald Trump threatens to 62 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:34.680 start cracking down on you know, and there seems to 63 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.759 be a lot of misinformation that comes specifically from that 64 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:43.120 area of the political sphere, and so by taking out 65 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:48.000 the misinformation checkpoints in Meta, it actually kind of gives 66 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:51.639 certain individuals a free ride, if you will, to spread 67 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.479 whatever lies and nonsense they want. 68 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:56.719 So it's almost like an open invitation for mayhem and 69 00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:59.759 prosolutely Yeah, yes, well let's. 70 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:01.199 Jump over to ELI here. ELI. 71 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:05.360 Restricting language on the surface seems to go against democratic 72 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:09.759 philosophy of free speech. However, on the other hand, protecting 73 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:13.360 the vulnerable is also a philosophy that's worthy of our efforts. 74 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:13.960 So will this. 75 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.800 Policy change upset the balance at all between those somewhat 76 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:20.360 conflicting goals. Is it going to tip the scales towards 77 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:21.120 one way or the other? 78 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:23.759 I mean, I do have mixed realized I think it 79 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.399 is definitely going to like we're going to see a 80 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:28.519 lot more hate speech, a lot of that. Like even 81 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:30.680 it says that I think it was Mark Zuckerberg that 82 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.360 was quoted as saying for the article, some bad stuff 83 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:35.360 is going to be missed by the sensors, like some 84 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.560 stuff is going to get through. So some people are 85 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:40.639 going to be more exposed and vulnerable to the hate 86 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:43.639 speech and then degrading language and things that they shouldn't 87 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.759 have to deal with. And I think that's definitely something 88 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:49.600 that we need to help protect those vulable people who 89 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.240 are vulnerable to that against. At the same time, I 90 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:55.959 don't like censorship, Like it's really really easy to trigger 91 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.439 the Facebook sensors right now and get like a thirty 92 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:01.920 day you know, can't partici group sort of thing. And 93 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:05.480 so what I think the other thing that I'm thinking 94 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:08.399 as I'm sort of sitting here listening to it, is 95 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:10.959 that the people who are getting fact checked or like 96 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:13.279 getting something removed because like, hey, this is inaccurate, they 97 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.800 don't think they're being fact checked. They think they're being 98 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:18.839 censored because, you know, it mentioned in the article, you 99 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.920 know conservatives, it's it was worried about some of the 100 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:26.920 fact checkers, you know, removing content based on like political 101 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.959 bias whatever, because conservatives are being fact checked more than 102 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:34.279 you know, liberals or or you know, Republicans more than Democrats. 103 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:36.399 But and that just goes to show it's like they 104 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.040 don't see it as like, oh, what I'm saying is 105 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.519 not correct, and here's the information they're giving me to 106 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.519 show me why they're seeing it as like, oh, they're 107 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:48.240 just silencing me because you know, I'm not a you know, 108 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:50.319 I'm not a lib I'm not you know whatever, and 109 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.600 they just think that they're being censored. So, you know, 110 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.720 the fact checkers. I don't think we're doing what they 111 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:58.839 were intended to do, at least not to the degree 112 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:00.519 in the first What. 113 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.759 Are you saying it just wasn't it wasn't syncing in? 114 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:05.920 Is that like if they said, you know, this is incorrect, 115 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:09.560 it was a challenge to their ideology or a challenge 116 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:11.720 to their position, right, is that? 117 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.839 Yeah? I mean yeah, I think I mean probably for 118 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:16.519 a lot not everybody, of course, but it's not there's 119 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:19.959 no like monoliths really, but I think for a lot 120 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.800 of people. Yeah, which is more like, oh, like the 121 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.959 truth is being hidden or like I'm being censored because 122 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:27.600 I'm not agreeing with the status quo kind of thing. 123 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:28.040 Yeah. 124 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:30.720 Well, I suppose if you're getting there, if safeguards are 125 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.199 put in place and you get called out more often 126 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.560 than anyone else, blame the system, right, it's it's don't 127 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.399 look in. We'd never look at your reflection in the mirror, 128 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:42.240 you know. Figure out how there must be some kind 129 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:45.480 of external problem here. I guess that's kind of that's 130 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:49.560 pretty a natural human response too. I mean, humans are 131 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:53.480 naturally inclined to take credit for themselves but put blame 132 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.319 on others, and so that's kind of kind of what's 133 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:56.879 happening here. 134 00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:57.160 Maybe. 135 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.360 Huh yeah, I guess rarely do we see ourselves as 136 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:02.360 the villain, always the hero. 137 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:05.439 Right yeah, exactly, We're all the hero of our own stories. 138 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.839 Right well, Chris, since we're back on you right now. 139 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.120 The press makes this sound like it's a huge shift 140 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:14.639 in direction for meta, But is it? 141 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:15.560 Is this a major change? 142 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.600 You were talking a little bit before about did the 143 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.759 fact checkers really do anything? Is this just fluff and 144 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:24.839 lip service? Or is this a substantive change here? 145 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:27.920 You know again, I really don't think it's that much 146 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:30.959 of a change yet. I believe it will develop into 147 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:35.839 more of a change as certain things unfold over the 148 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:38.800 next few years. However, at the moment, I really don't 149 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:41.000 think it is when you stop and look at what well, 150 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:43.759 like I guess, I guess for people like Eli was saying, 151 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:47.319 who get into two forums and comments and they really 152 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:49.879 run into the sensors a lot I myself don't tend 153 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:52.560 to run into them. I just post my crazy atheist 154 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:56.680 hate speech. They don't ever bother me. I don't know why, 155 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:00.759 but yeah, but what I have noticed is in influx 156 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:06.839 a huge increase in these fake Mark Zuckerbergberg posts. Other 157 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:11.040 people posting images of Mark Zuckerbergberg, you know, like kissing 158 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:16.759 Donald Trump or somebody else, and talking about how they're 159 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.319 now coming out of the closet and this is they're 160 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:21.879 putting this, as you know, and they're just filling Facebook 161 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:26.319 with these misinformation stories and images right about Mark Zuckerberg. 162 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:29.439 I just feel as the Schodenfreud. I mean, I hope 163 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:30.879 he gets to enjoy some of it myself. 164 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.720 True, well, I think he'll enjoy it all the way 165 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.320 to the bank. I think. I think that's either way. 166 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:39.360 There's really, you know, there's a single concern I think 167 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:43.519 on his mind. It's not necessarily the flourishing of humanity 168 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:45.759 or well, I don't know. I suppose I shouldn't judge 169 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.519 Mark Zuckerberg, but based off of things I see, that's 170 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:49.360 the way certainly. 171 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:50.559 The way it seems to me. 172 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.320 Is that there's more of a focus on profitability and 173 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:57.200 on business success and not so much on uh, you know, 174 00:08:57.279 --> 00:09:01.759 development and promoting goodwill and healthy interactions with people and 175 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:02.159 so on. 176 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:06.639 Unless I'm mistaken, the definition of fascism is the marriage 177 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:11.240 between politics and business, I mean essentially, and that would 178 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.080 be where we would be going with some of the 179 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:16.960 notions anyway. Yeah, one of the things though, in my 180 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:20.440 opinion about that fact checkers on, there's some things that 181 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:23.759 platform algorithm has been getting wrong. Have you has anybody 182 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.440 else noticed this? Sure they claim to have fact checkers, 183 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:30.240 and yet running up to the election, I'm a left 184 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:34.120 wing pardon the expression, liberal nutbag. Everything I do on 185 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:38.200 my Facebook is liberal craziness, atheist blah blah blah. And 186 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:41.559 yet when you scroll down my Facebook, especially during before 187 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:44.320 or during the campaign and whatnot, when you scroll down 188 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.399 my Facebook, you see these ones that say follow you know, theirs, 189 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:49.600 suggestions their friends you see, and then there's they're trying 190 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:51.919 to shove on you, and they are all these right 191 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:56.320 wing misinformation. It was it was almost made my Facebook 192 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:02.000 unusable completely. And where were there checkers there? Yeah, we're 193 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:04.200 going to get rid of the fact checkers, right, Well, 194 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:05.879 wait a second, you. 195 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:10.440 Know, oh darn, now, how will we filter out the misinformation. 196 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:15.480 Yes, yes, interesting, the call is coming from the house, 197 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:18.559 from the house, get out. 198 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:21.440 Of the house, exactly right. All right, good one, that's 199 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:22.279 a good one. I like that. 200 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:25.960 On that note, let's let's hop back over to Eli 201 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:26.840 here for a second. 202 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:27.240 Eli. 203 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:32.279 So we've seen people just leaving Facebook and other meta 204 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:36.039 platforms in droves, you know, due to these policy changes. 205 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.440 Do you think that that will uh people leaving those platforms? 206 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.559 Do you think that's going to help us to accomplish 207 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:44.919 those goals, you know, get away from the things that 208 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:45.960 they're that they're leaving. 209 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:46.840 Sure, I mean, I. 210 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:48.840 Think they're there are probably there are plenty of good 211 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:51.080 reasons to leave Facebook or leave you know, any of 212 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.960 the meta platforms. But I think as far as like 213 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:59.000 if if it's in response to to this move, I think, like, yes, 214 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:01.399 the absence of fact checks and like and like the 215 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.080 absence of the fact that we're not removing inaccurate information 216 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:08.639 is something to be spoken of. But I kind of 217 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:11.080 compared it to like book learning, right. I think if 218 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:14.200 we were to have some like apocalyptic event and like 219 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.320 society collapses that we don't have like, you know, technological 220 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.720 access to information anymore. We ran a point at like 221 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:22.600 we come to a point where people start talking about, 222 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:25.080 like should we burn the Bibles, Like let's say the 223 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.799 rapture happens and there's no more like religion religious people, 224 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:30.279 like should we burn the Bibles? I still don't think 225 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:32.240 I would want to because I just want to keep 226 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.440 that for like the historical significance of that information. I 227 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:39.919 don't necessarily believe in removing in accurate information. I just 228 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.360 believe in like learning how to learn what's good information, 229 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.000 what's a good source, what's not a good source, and 230 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:48.720 making sure people are like better. I think given that 231 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:51.320 we have like the you know, the AI systems that 232 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:53.919 we use to gather information that I'm guilty of it 233 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:56.279 to use it all the time, we have these fact checkers, 234 00:11:56.440 --> 00:12:00.519 people aren't really like worried about fact checking themselves anymore. 235 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.120 They don't really look for like to make sure what 236 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.519 they're reading is true. They see it and they're like, oh, 237 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:07.799 that must be that way, and then they just kind 238 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:13.480 of move on. So I think to leave the platform 239 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.440 because there's the for for this reason, I think it 240 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:22.720 just leaves an echo chamber of like unreason, like on Facebook, 241 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.720 where if all the reasonable people are gone because you know, 242 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.279 everybody who disagrees with them isn't being censored anymore. That 243 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.120 just leaves all the people that have the ideas we 244 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:33.600 consider kind of shitty. 245 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:34.759 And you know, just. 246 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.279 Right, So yeah, and it just and and it's sort 247 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:46.360 of and it's going to grow. The sentiment is going 248 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.240 to grow and grow more powerful because there's only people 249 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:51.360 there that agree with them. 250 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:55.600 Now there's no interesting interesting Okay, well here's a question 251 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:58.799 for both of you. And and so I'm gonna get 252 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:01.679 a little deep here. So in my opinion, this advent 253 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.840 of AI and other megavolume mass processing of personal data. 254 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:07.960 And that's really all the AI is. It's just mass 255 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:11.840 processing of data. It's a major milestone in our ability 256 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:14.799 to manipulate others. Right if you know, if you know 257 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:17.399 the right buttons to push, you can get somebody to 258 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:22.080 do anything you want. Just in my mind popped in 259 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.039 there was a Darren Brown. I don't know if you've 260 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.279 ever heard of Darren Brown. He's an illusionist and a mentalist, 261 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:32.320 and he did a show once called The Push where 262 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.799 the theme of the show was that he was going 263 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.919 to try to convince a human being, to just a 264 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:40.840 regular random person off the street. He was going to 265 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:44.080 try to convince them to murder another person. And so 266 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.720 over the course of a day or two, they they 267 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:52.320 he staged these different interactions with these people, and the 268 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:56.000 idea was that they would each each step kind of 269 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.360 psychologically nudged the person in a different direction, and so 270 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.679 eventually things would build up to a climax and then 271 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:06.039 we would we would see whether or not at work. 272 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.039 Now I'm not gonna I won't spoil the ending for you, 273 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:12.879 but it really, I think open my eyes as to 274 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.480 just how much people can be manipulated by somebody who 275 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.200 knows the right things to say. And so when we're 276 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.759 looking at this mass processing of our of our personal data, 277 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:24.559 we that's what we see. 278 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:26.360 I mean, that's what advertising is, right. 279 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:30.120 It's basically trying to manipulate you by showing you things 280 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.120 that you like or showing you things that you don't like, 281 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.879 et cetera. So that's kind of what we're what we're 282 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:37.559 seeing here. And really the only way that we can 283 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:41.600 stop this is regulation, right, It's it's has to be 284 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:44.080 regulation of the types of data that can be gathered 285 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:47.320 and what can you what can you do with this? 286 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:49.919 So let's start with Chris on this what are your 287 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:54.480 thoughts on that, and what, if anything, do recent shifts 288 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.840 in the political climate signal about the future of our 289 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.600 data safety and sie security. You know, let's take a 290 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.759 let's take a leap forward five years into the future. 291 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:06.519 Are things going to be different? 292 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:09.879 Are we at risk of blowing all chance we have 293 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:11.960 of having any kind of meaningful security? 294 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:17.120 You know, yes, but not because of the political nature 295 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.799 or because of the political any of that kind of thing. 296 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:24.080 I think that whenever you combine the computing power or 297 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:27.240 the raw computing power that we have with Google just 298 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:29.919 announced a few days ago that they've developed some kind 299 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:32.919 of new CPU that can do more in a flash 300 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:35.679 of an instant than all the other supercomputers can do 301 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:38.200 in a thousand years or some business like that. A 302 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:41.120 computer like they just announced can rip through any kind 303 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.840 of security or I mean, if we're talking about personal security, 304 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:48.639 you know, to that question now, as far as people's 305 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:53.639 data and their own personal information and being manipulated by AI, man, 306 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:58.600 I use AI too, you know, and I actually use 307 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.159 I recently made a commercial where I used AI to 308 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.759 help me change my voice to the voice of Ian 309 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:10.279 McKellan so I could read a thing. Yeah, and then 310 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.240 I made a commercial that's funny. It's hilarious. But that's 311 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.519 what AI has got so much power, you can do 312 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.639 so much with it. There needs to be regulation, There 313 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:21.200 needs to be some kind of control. I'm just I 314 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.799 don't feel qualified to be the kind of person to 315 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.480 make those kinds of guidelines. There needs to be you know, 316 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.919 it's like you need to go to educated people who 317 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.440 are educated in that field. You don't hire a lawyer 318 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.480 to be the head of the Department of agriculture agriculture, 319 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:39.559 for example, Go find somebody who's got an education in 320 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:43.360 years of experience being in agriculture and so things like that. 321 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:47.600 Although I am for regulation, I also see the benefit 322 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.279 of how these things could take us to the next 323 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.759 level as a society. But then you've also we've got 324 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.720 this purity of that knowledge and that power, and like 325 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.240 you're mentioning with the political environment, the political atmosphere, you 326 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.399 take and it's like pouring any kind of the wrong 327 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.079 color into your pure white paint and start it around 328 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.119 and everything starts getting money, and the more of that 329 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.599 you taint it with, the worst it becomes. So Yeah, 330 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:13.000 in a few years, I think it really could without 331 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:16.200 any kount of checks become a horrible, a horrible tool 332 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.440 for control of people. We just have to, like Eli 333 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.839 said earlier, people just have to be educated in how 334 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:26.359 to defend themselves, right, you know, use their reason to 335 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:28.680 to not fall for this stuff. You can't remove all 336 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.279 the misinformation. You can't. You just can't, no matter how 337 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.079 much you want to. But by educating people how to 338 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:41.440 avoid it, you can extemporaneously take care of that all right, right, right, 339 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:43.240 and work out those situations. 340 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:46.119 That's that's funny, cool cool, Eli. Let's build on what 341 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.000 Chris was saying there. Do you think we're coming up 342 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:53.000 to some kind of point of no return? You know? 343 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:55.799 Is is that is there? Do we have a chance 344 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:57.599 to turn things around at this point? 345 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.279 Or is there some kind of inevitent conclusion that we're 346 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:02.920 that we're heading towards? 347 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.519 Is there? Is there a waterfall ahead of us? 348 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:09.319 I think yeah, I think it is. I think there's 349 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:10.880 a waterfall ahead of us. And it's basically at the 350 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:12.640 point where like, yeah, if somebody would pick up a 351 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.079 paddle and start paddling the other way, or like if 352 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.240 enough people would do that, yeah, you could probably get out. 353 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:20.039 But I don't think enough people are going to do that. 354 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:24.920 I saw something and I'm not sure how I. 355 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:27.200 Feel about like whether this is the case about how 356 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:29.200 AI is being used, but basically saw this thing that 357 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:33.000 suggested that the purpose of AI is to build, you know, 358 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.839 such a dependence on it that people cannot tell what 359 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:36.720 is truth. 360 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:40.039 And what is reality without AI and then basically just 361 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.559 flood the Internet with AI. And so then that leads 362 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:46.279 to this speculation that then you can, of course like 363 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:49.359 just decide whatever you want to be is the truth. 364 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:51.720 And then we have like a North Korea type situation 365 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.240 going on here, and I think that the possibility that 366 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.920 is definitely scary and something that we want to watch 367 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.920 out for. I don't know if I think that that 368 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:03.599 is the path that AI is going to take. I 369 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.759 think I've seen a lot of really really cool things 370 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:07.559 that we're doing with AI as well that are like 371 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:13.359 helping people and society. So I definitely want to see, 372 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:15.680 like I really enjoy kind of playing with it and 373 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.279 seeing like what I can, like, you know, what types 374 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.839 of things I can you know, learn from it or 375 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:25.559 make it do. But it's yeah, I would there's definitely 376 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:27.480 and we've always known there's definitely ways that it can 377 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:31.240 be used to manipulate and to take advantage. So it's 378 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:35.839 you would hate to see it. It's important to find 379 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:36.759 ways to prevent that. 380 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.440 Yeah, and you know it's so tempting to use too, 381 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:42.200 because it's so easy. I mean, human beings are lazy. 382 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:45.279 I mean, I'm a math teacher. Nobody knows that human 383 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.079 beings are lazy more than a math teacher. And so 384 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.839 people don't want to think about things. People don't want 385 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.160 to sit down and figure things out. And so we're 386 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.720 talking about our only defense now is our own sense 387 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:01.480 of desire for truth and our own sense of willingness 388 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.640 to put in the work to make sure that what 389 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:06.920 we believe is true. But human beings don't, naturally, I mean, 390 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.920 we're naturally against that. We want to take the easy 391 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:10.839 way out. If we can have the computer do the 392 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:14.880 thinking for us, then we'll just do whatever the computer says. 393 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:16.160 Chris, did you have any thoughts on that? 394 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:20.079 Well, I was gonna go on Eli's analogy there about 395 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:24.039 trying to row away from the waterfall if you can 396 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:26.519 get enough people to do that. But at the same time, 397 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:30.039 you've got people over on the shore selling barrels going 398 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:32.480 right over the waterfall, and there's people like me going, 399 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:35.160 let's get in the waterfall. Come on, everybody, you know, 400 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.839 because I'm embracing the AI world, but I also recognize 401 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:41.319