1
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,640
Speaker 1: If you want to support the show and get the

2
00:00:38,679 --> 00:00:42,679
episodes early and ad free, head on over to Freeman

3
00:00:42,759 --> 00:00:46,280
Beyond the Wall dot com, forward slash Support. There's a

4
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,799
few ways you can support me there. One there's a

5
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,359
direct link to my website. Two, there's a subscribe star.

6
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:58,439
Three there's Patreon. Four there's substack. And now I've introduced

7
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,920
gum Road because I know that a lot of our

8
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,159
guys are on gum Road and they are again censorship.

9
00:01:04,439 --> 00:01:06,439
So if you head over to gum Road and you

10
00:01:06,519 --> 00:01:10,359
subscribe through there, you'll get the episodes early and ad free,

11
00:01:10,719 --> 00:01:14,000
and you'll get an invite into the Telegram group. So

12
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,760
I really appreciate all the support everyone's giving me, and

13
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,400
I hope to expand the show even more than it

14
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,920
already has. Thank you so much. I want to welcome

15
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,719
everyone back to the Pete Kenyona Show. It's been a

16
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,120
while I've been looking forward to this. Doctor Matthew, Raphael Johnson,

17
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,120
are you doing my friend?

18
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,680
Speaker 2: Hey, Peter, it's a pleasure to be on it always is.

19
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,879
You have a great audience. I hear from them once

20
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,280
in a while, and our topic today is definitely going

21
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:45,000
to interest them.

22
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 1: All Right, let's get into it. Yeah, this is It's

23
00:01:49,799 --> 00:01:54,200
not rare that somebody in the audience asks for a

24
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,000
subject and I do it. But it's not every day

25
00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,079
that I do it. But this was definitely mhm. The

26
00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:06,120
topic of the Cossacks and the Jewish question and Poland

27
00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:10,159
was brought up and your name was mentioned as the

28
00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:14,000
only person they wanted to hear from. So I will.

29
00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:16,479
I will follow you along with this and you can

30
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,319
start wherever you want, and I'll interrupt uh whenever I

31
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,439
you know, whenever I have a question or need clarification

32
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,919
on something. Does that sound good, No problem.

33
00:02:26,039 --> 00:02:29,520
Speaker 2: Let me get started here. The first thing we ought

34
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,800
to do is to find what the clo what a

35
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,680
close Uk is. It comes from the Turkic word kasakh,

36
00:02:36,199 --> 00:02:41,159
which means freebooter, something like the bikers of the of

37
00:02:41,199 --> 00:02:48,879
the era. Although very religious, they were a free communal

38
00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:55,039
body of full time warriors. They were semi nomadic who

39
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,800
they had their own camps. You had to be Orthodox

40
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,599
to be a member. Generally speaking, it was Slavs from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus.

41
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,759
Its formation had a lot of sources running, people running

42
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,680
from Serfdom, people who didn't have families, people who were

43
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,400
in trouble somewhere, and so long as they could maintain

44
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,680
the rigors of the Cossack life, they were considered a member.

45
00:03:25,199 --> 00:03:30,680
Southern Russia has this very long step, this prairie very

46
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,639
difficult to control without, especially without airpower, and this is

47
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,159
where the Cossacks came into their own. They essentially were

48
00:03:39,479 --> 00:03:43,680
an orthodox force against Poland or Turkey. They eventually come

49
00:03:43,759 --> 00:03:48,840
under the Polish Empire and generally speaking worked for the Russians,

50
00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:52,479
although certainly not all of them. After a certain time,

51
00:03:54,919 --> 00:03:58,360
they were the biggest headache that the Polish Empire ever

52
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:04,719
had to deal with. The Polish Empire is interesting because

53
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,680
it was an oligarchy. It was an oligarchy in the

54
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,759
true sense. The emperor, the king had very little power,

55
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,759
although there were some very rare exception. The only thing

56
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,680
that these nobles cared about was the maintenance of their

57
00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:23,000
lands and the maintenance of their power. And they'll throw

58
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,600
a war if they had to to keep the crown

59
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,800
from getting any credit for And they didn't have a

60
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:36,000
standing army, but they had something called confederations, where groups

61
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,519
of landowners would get together for a common purpose and

62
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,800
bring together a regular force. And they would do this

63
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,399
on a regular basis, whether it be well, especially against

64
00:04:45,439 --> 00:04:54,800
the Cossat the other thing that makes Poland interesting is

65
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,439
the Jewish issue. It used to be that Poland, the

66
00:04:59,439 --> 00:05:03,319
Polish fire, was called the paradise of the Jews. In fact,

67
00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:08,120
you had some extreme quite a number of Orthodox rabbis

68
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,040
claiming that the Missigon is going to come because of

69
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,160
the privileges that the Polish elite gave them. The Polish

70
00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:19,279
elite were landed. They were often deliterate, They didn't have

71
00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:25,480
you know, again, they didn't want a strong monarch, so

72
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,240
rather than allow any centralization of finance, they imported the

73
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:36,040
thirteenth fourteenth century Jews to handle the commerce of the cities.

74
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,240
The situation was always tense because of them. You had

75
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,759
a whole army of intermediaries between the landowners and the

76
00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:50,160
one hand, and their subjects on the other. The Jews

77
00:05:50,199 --> 00:05:57,480
were granted rights over taverns, trade duties, mills, fishing rights,

78
00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:08,360
bridge tolls, and unfortunately even Orthodox churches. And because the

79
00:06:08,399 --> 00:06:13,000
Polish forces would protect them, they had no obligation, no

80
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:18,839
desire to even understand the language of their of their servants,

81
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,560
and they behaved as you might expect. And this by

82
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,000
the way. Even the mainstream academic literature is forced to

83
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,000
concede this, that their arrogance was so intense that it's

84
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,879
a miracle that the rebellions, which did explode several times,

85
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,720
the most famous of which is Kimomitski in sixteen forty eight,

86
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,040
didn't happen sooner. They were very inventive in their exportation.

87
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,839
One of the big areas, I said, taverns, meaning the

88
00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:52,439
distilling of alcohol, which they had monopoly, and they could

89
00:06:52,480 --> 00:07:01,199
call upon Polish local landlords militia to protect them if necessary,

90
00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:04,959
because these people were too for lack of the better

91
00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:09,800
laundering the cash of the money of the Polish nobility.

92
00:07:10,879 --> 00:07:12,639
The only reason they were able to function there is

93
00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:17,800
because of this very same nobility. So the anti colonialist

94
00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:20,800
fight of the Cossacks, who were of course ar orthodox,

95
00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:27,839
very free, anti serfdom, and Poland, who was Roman Catholic

96
00:07:28,399 --> 00:07:31,519
and had the harshest kind of serfdom at the time.

97
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,160
So the anti colonial movement took aim at the Jews

98
00:07:37,199 --> 00:07:42,399
as well, and the popular for lack of the better term, again,

99
00:07:42,439 --> 00:07:47,240
the popular press, the Dome for the series of poetic

100
00:07:47,279 --> 00:07:51,079
cycles about Jewish oppression was popular. This was the voice

101
00:07:51,079 --> 00:07:54,839
of the of the common person, and the great Ukrainian

102
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,639
historian Grudoshevsky went through them in some detail which I've

103
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,720
I've read. There was nothing that any peasant or you know,

104
00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:08,600
I mean they were the townsmen, but any peasant could

105
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:15,079
have that wasn't subject to confiscation. Even travelers were were

106
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,240
sometimes stripped of their of their goods, anything that you

107
00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:22,279
know that they would they would use alcohol to trick

108
00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:25,920
people into doing things, and this continued even after. Poland

109
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:31,160
seeks to exist even at the expense of you know,

110
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,360
the average man or the Cossacks wife and children. And

111
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,799
I think the Jews very much feared them, don't forget.

112
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:43,399
One of the original purposes of the Cossack host was

113
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,519
to free Christian slaves from the island of Kafa in

114
00:08:47,639 --> 00:08:51,159
Black Sea, which is a Jewish island and is where

115
00:08:51,159 --> 00:08:55,559
the main slave mark was. So their contempt for the

116
00:08:55,639 --> 00:08:58,759
Jews at the time knew no bounds, and that that

117
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:07,879
goes back to their very they're very founded and often

118
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,440
you know, there were a lot of Jews there. I

119
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,639
think at one point eighty percent of the world's Jewish

120
00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:15,240
population was living in the Polish Empire straight up until

121
00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:19,759
the early twentieth century, so who could be talking about

122
00:09:19,879 --> 00:09:25,960
Zionism in a place like this. But probably the most

123
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,080
obnoxious thing, I mean, they were the agents of monetization,

124
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,759
and as the explosion in Western demand for grain grew

125
00:09:36,759 --> 00:09:43,480
sixteen seventeenth century, Polish landlords needed to intensify serfdom and

126
00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:47,320
the only hope they had were they cross the coasts.

127
00:09:47,759 --> 00:09:50,519
But probably the most obnoxious thing is their control over

128
00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:56,360
physical churches. We had plenty of first hand accounts of this.

129
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:02,080
Their entire villages were as assets that the Jews can use,

130
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:08,279
including the local church. The great Ukrainian historian Custom Motov

131
00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:14,519
talks about this also at some length. Now I have

132
00:10:14,519 --> 00:10:20,159
a book out called Ukrainian Nationalism. My editor had that

133
00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:24,799
was Russia Insider helped me put that together, and I

134
00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:30,480
go into this in some detail. But it's even mainstream

135
00:10:30,639 --> 00:10:33,879
writers have to admit that the rebellions against these Jews

136
00:10:33,879 --> 00:10:41,000
were earned. But the rebellions that continue to occur from

137
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:46,639
the sixteenth century right up until the eighteenth you have

138
00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:49,200
letters being written all over the place talking about how

139
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,440
important it is to realize that the Jews run things

140
00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:58,320
financially speaking. There's a merchant from Moscow sixteen forty eight,

141
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,360
who was there at the time of the rebellion, says

142
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,679
the Jews robbed and abused the Ukrainians. As soon as

143
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,480
they distilled Vakler group beer without telling a Jew and

144
00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:09,440
did not take off his hat in front of one,

145
00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:14,080
the Jews assaulted him, robbed and ruined him, taking his

146
00:11:14,159 --> 00:11:18,840
property forcibly and his wives and children to work for him.

147
00:11:19,919 --> 00:11:23,960
Many polls, especially in the Church, were well aware of this,

148
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:29,559
this unbearable oppression, as they would say, And there was

149
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:35,840
a Catholic canon Muzuphovich from Lavov in Western Ukraine at

150
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,240
the time part of the Polish Empire, who says that

151
00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:42,200
there were no sacraments available to these very Orthodox people

152
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,960
unless they paid a toll to the Jews. And in

153
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,639
his writings Upovid said, you have suffered your troubled as

154
00:11:49,639 --> 00:11:53,879
you deserved, talking both about the polls and the Jews.

155
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,480
So we talked about not just a financial and political degradation,

156
00:11:59,639 --> 00:12:06,039
but a moral one too, constantly having to endure injustice

157
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,080
twenty four hours day. And what did they expect to happen?

158
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,519
Did they overestimate gusion? Ultimately, by sixteen forty eight, by

159
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:19,279
the time the Kim Oniski Crossack rebellion exploded. It was

160
00:12:19,399 --> 00:12:22,600
mainstream opinion that we don't have to reign. The Jews

161
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,120
are saying is we don't have to rein in our

162
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,120
arrogance because the Messiah is on its way and he's

163
00:12:27,159 --> 00:12:29,960
coming to Poland. Because in no other way could we

164
00:12:30,039 --> 00:12:36,080
be permitted this level of aristocracy. Jews even you know,

165
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,600
had had serfs in the name of the Polish landlord.

166
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,159
So not only was they were they paying a vig

167
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,360
every week, but they had to work in the in

168
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:48,600
the Jews house and in his field and which he

169
00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:51,879
owned the name of Poland, and there were taxes on

170
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:57,799
whatever it was that he was being paid. So it's

171
00:12:57,879 --> 00:13:05,919
clear that this was absolutely unbearable, an unbearable situation that

172
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,600
the Orthodox people, and the only force they had against

173
00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:10,399
them was the constant.

174
00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:15,080
Speaker 1: They were invited in. And that is that is the

175
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,879
common refrain that you get when when you're talking about

176
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:26,039
Jewish history is well, because Christians were against usury, and

177
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,480
Christians saw look down upon money changing things like that,

178
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,960
they invited the Jews in. So they basically invited this

179
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,200
upon themselves, and you know, they had no right to

180
00:13:38,279 --> 00:13:38,919
fight back.

181
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,519
Speaker 2: Precisely right and it freed up the landlord to do

182
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,399
whatever he wanted. That's why they were always in debt.

183
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,759
But the Jews always had access to credit at any

184
00:13:49,799 --> 00:13:54,440
given moment, they could undersell anybody. So they monopolized all

185
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:59,519
of these fields the collective term for the Polish nobilities.

186
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,480
And they didn't like the idea that a Catholic merchant

187
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:08,279
class would develop in the cities and give its loyalty

188
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,240
to the crown, as what happened in Britain. In England,

189
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,759
the Jews were organized into autonomous cahals, you know, fairly large,

190
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,960
legally defined institutions and were given totally a free hand.

191
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,320
So it was you know, it was diabolical. It was

192
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:35,240
brilliant because it kept the elites and noble power centers

193
00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:41,200
from ever being co opted. So the anger of the peasantry.

194
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,279
Not to mention the Cossacks, who the Polish government was

195
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,200
always trying to make serfs out of them, which is

196
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,600
always so stupid. Cossack rebellions is one of the reasons

197
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,679
that Poland fell apart in the late eighteenth century. But

198
00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:03,840
any indebted land, any indebt and uh merchant group, and

199
00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:08,720
once they monopolized money, you know, usury, they jacked up

200
00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:11,759
interest rate they clearly didn't have the same This this

201
00:15:11,799 --> 00:15:14,279
is where the Talm would became so essential to all

202
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,320
of this. They made sure that everyone hated them. They

203
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:23,759
had no one sent him to do anything else. And

204
00:15:23,799 --> 00:15:27,240
I know Heinrich Greats, who was a German Jew who

205
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,320
rejected the Zohar, and the Talm would talks about not

206
00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:35,759
just the domination of Jews, but how dependent the Polish

207
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:40,840
elites were on them, and whatever defects they have, the

208
00:15:40,919 --> 00:15:44,080
Jews were able to counterbalance it. To them, the aristocracy

209
00:15:44,159 --> 00:15:51,480
was seen as did see unseerious, extravagant, reckless, and so

210
00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:53,679
the Jews were the perfect group of people to profit

211
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,000
and keep them in power. But he was more than

212
00:15:57,039 --> 00:16:00,919
a finan a tier. He was his help whenever he

213
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,159
got into trouble, a prudent advisor. They were the dominant cast,

214
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,200
and revolts were pretty continuous, and they never learned their lesson.

215
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,840
I mean, by sixteen forty eight, the illegitimacy of this

216
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,559
Polish league became so vile that there was no defending it.

217
00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:23,480
And as he Michael Jones said one of my favorite

218
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,519
lines of his, rather than the accession of the Messiah

219
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,919
in Poland. Given the privileged position of Jews in a

220
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:40,039
Polish empire, the Jews got Kimilnichki instead. So and the

221
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,799
importation of the Jews was made possible by the statue

222
00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:48,440
Statute of Calis, and that's from there it became the

223
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:54,759
paradiss udorum, the paradise of the Jews. And you know,

224
00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:57,919
they never even learned the language of their people. And

225
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,080
they also were involved in prostitution for people, you know,

226
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,599
women who were impoverished. They had their own state within

227
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:11,720
a state, and even the uprising because as under Kimolninski,

228
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:18,839
which removed the Jews from public life. However temporarily they

229
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:26,599
were and who he's a key figure, Uh, it was temporarily.

230
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,160
In fact, they even signed treaty saying the Jews won't

231
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,759
be taking your debt anymore. Because for the most part,

232
00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:37,000
what the Cossacks wanted, among many other things, was to

233
00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:41,200
be treated as the equal to any Polish noble. So

234
00:17:43,559 --> 00:17:45,759
and if you like, I could get into the rebellion

235
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:48,079
of Kimolyninski that year.

236
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do that. We've talked about it before, but

237
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,319
definitely we needed in context for this U for this episode.

238
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,759
Speaker 2: Well, Bogdan Kimolninski was a suck who had so many

239
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:07,240
people appeal to him saying that, you know, he was

240
00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:09,640
high ranking and we need to do something about this.

241
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,920
And this is where the idea of a Ukrainian or

242
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,680
South Russian nation came into existence. Now, depending on who

243
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,039
you read, what he wanted either was an independent state

244
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,480
or to create an autonomous unit within Poland, or possibly

245
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,279
the creation of an autonomous unit as part of the

246
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:39,119
Moscow State. And Kimon Nitsky really leaned towards the Russian side.

247
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,799
But as I wrote it in my book, the Russian

248
00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:44,960
side became just as bad as the polls, just minus

249
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,240
the Jews. I mean, anything was better than what the

250
00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:52,440
polls offered, and they kept, you know, demanding concessions, and

251
00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:54,440
rather than give it to them, they had to have

252
00:18:54,599 --> 00:19:00,480
huge casualty order for them to do anything. So most

253
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,319
people think, especially in Russia, that this uprising was a

254
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,599
way to extend Russia's border, and it seems to be

255
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,279
almost an inevitability. The Cossack host you know, having you know,

256
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,759
maybe ten thousand of the most and there were several

257
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,079
centers of it. The most famous is up Eurosian is

258
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,839
Russian for beyond the rapids, the rapids of the Dan,

259
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,000
the emperor a series of islands and some of the

260
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:29,759
most inhospitable parts of that river, which is where they

261
00:19:29,799 --> 00:19:35,039
had their sick or fortress. They tended to be a

262
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:41,960
fairly radical, egalitarian nationalist movement, but within the Polish Empire itself,

263
00:19:42,039 --> 00:19:47,000
or at least on its frontiers, the hetman. The hetman

264
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:50,279
was the chief executive, usually an older warrior. Everyone was

265
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:57,160
a warrior, every man, but they tended to not be

266
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,880
able to defend themselves. Yes, of course they were ferocious fighters,

267
00:20:01,319 --> 00:20:04,799
but against a regular force and this often didn't happen.

268
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,200
But they needed allies. I mean, Turkey at this point

269
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,799
was one of the great most powerful states in Europe.

270
00:20:13,079 --> 00:20:17,200
In Ukraine, you know, Kimolinski realized he had to go somewhere,

271
00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:20,559
and the only place that made any sense was to

272
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,440
go to Moscow. This is a time of great ferment

273
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:30,119
in Western Europe, the Glorious Revolution in Britain, the Front

274
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,880
in France, the end of the Thirty Years War. So

275
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,200
Kimoninski started this war because people were absolutely exhausted, and

276
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,720
we hear talk about the Russian or rus nation. Within

277
00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:53,039
the Polish Empire and but besides going to Russia later

278
00:20:53,079 --> 00:20:58,039
he also went to the Crimean cohan because the Crimeans

279
00:20:58,039 --> 00:21:01,440
were dissatisfied with the Poles, because the Poles used to

280
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,599
pay them off to keep them from raiding Paul's territory

281
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:11,119
and they stopped doing that. And so the khan sent

282
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,440
four thousand men. He you know, he needed their assistance,

283
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,799
but because there were Muslims and other Hetmans like Doroshenko later,

284
00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:23,079
we're going to have this bite them because the Tartars

285
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:28,160
end up this plundering things. And in fact, kim Niki

286
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:34,759
sent his son timofay As to the Kanaza hostage and

287
00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:38,599
vice versa, so that they could be assured of good behavior.

288
00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:43,079
And that wasn't uncommon at the time, and it was

289
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,839
also the possibility of the Poles bribing them, which is

290
00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:50,119
kim Minoski. By by sixteen forty it had ten thousand

291
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,160
men that includes the Tartars, and the Poles were trying

292
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,519
to placate him, but he said no, this time has come,

293
00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:05,960
and he succeeded for a time with expelling or The

294
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,480
three forces are the Polish landlord class, as I mentioned,

295
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,240
the Jews and then the unions, the so called Greek

296
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,240
Catholics that the Polish government, along with the Vatican imposed

297
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:23,480
and the Orthodox would the attempt to catholicize them. Now,

298
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,359
what Kimleninski said is once he began his uprising, were

299
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,079
right at the moment it started. The Poles had promised

300
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,359
him all kinds of payments. But as they were promising

301
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,039
that negotiations took place, the Poles were gathering their their army,

302
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,240
and he you know, pretty much figured this out pretty soon.

303
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,839
Uh you know, Count Patocki was was one of the

304
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:51,400
leaders of the Polish forces who had an advanced guard

305
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:59,519
of four thousand men, usually mercenaries, and they tended to

306
00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:01,680
be you know, they lost bad, but the Poles did

307
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:07,119
and you had pro Polish cross action, you had pro

308
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:12,640
Moscow cross action. You even had a handful who supported Crimea,

309
00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:20,240
which was a subsidiary of Turkey, the Ottomans. And but

310
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,039
one of the things that happened in their defeat of

311
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:26,720
these three forces was that many Jews were killed, at

312
00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:32,440
least the worst of them. So of course Jews today,

313
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:36,279
with a few exceptions, you know, act like there was

314
00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:39,079
no reason to hate them. This was just jealousy or

315
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,319
something stupid like that. The Poles eventually you think of

316
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:48,640
Ukraine at the time, Ukraine meaning borderland rather than an

317
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,400
actual country. The left bank of the Niepa River the

318
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,519
eastern part of the country, and the right bank or

319
00:23:57,559 --> 00:24:00,480
the Polish part of the country. Well, the left bank

320
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:07,960
was completely evacuated. And so the coalition that the Poles

321
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,200
were using is this, you know, the elites, Jewish, tenants,

322
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,759
Catholics and unions, and it was very hard for them

323
00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:19,400
if they were ever ever captured. And you have like

324
00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:23,119
Rabbi Hannover who is alive at the time, who talked

325
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:28,920
about all these atrocities that the cross Sacks allegedly did,

326
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:34,359
but you know, has is forced to recognize why and

327
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,720
why did this happened. They were what we might call Progroans,

328
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,599
but that was against that wasn't merely against the Jews

329
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,319
that was in the in the left bank in fact,

330
00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:56,680
and they simply disappeared Poles, Jews, Catholics, whatever, and many

331
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,599
of them had to take refuge in dem because that's

332
00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:05,880
where he's in one place where the Polish state was

333
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:12,160
able to maintain itself. And you know, we'd have so

334
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,319
many first hand accounts because this was I mean, Kimon

335
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,079
Nisky is one of the most significant figures in Eastern

336
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:24,960
European history ever. So what it comes down to is

337
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:32,160
the struggle for independent South ross Ukraine, a Ukrainian Orthodox

338
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,000
jerk with the Cossack host as their protectors. I mean,

339
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,720
this is one of the defining issues of Ukrainian history.

340
00:25:40,559 --> 00:25:42,640
But of course it can't be separated from the basic

341
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,440
politics of the has been it. But the Cossacks all

342
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,039
themselves as having several functions to protect the Orthodox faith,

343
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,680
to rescue Orthodox slaves, especially from the Jews, and then

344
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,720
later on to fight for some autonomous entity where they

345
00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:01,640
can be treated as Poles, their own elite. So from

346
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,880
the sixteenth to the eighteenth century this was a non

347
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,240
stop thing. Infamously Hetman and Mazeppa during the reign of

348
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:14,079
Peter Gray. Peter first went to the Swedes, and the

349
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:17,880
Hetman state as an actual government was founded after the

350
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:24,119
rebellion of Kimolninski. But the Sick was always independent and

351
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:27,119
sometimes the Poles or the Russians would try to buy

352
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,240
off you're better off Cosnaco officers with grants of land

353
00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:36,599
and guarantees of political power. But you know, sometimes that

354
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,119
worked and sometimes it didn't. As I say, Poland was

355
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,200
a federation of small noble states east, with its own law,

356
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,319
courts and financial policy. It was ethnically Polish, but there

357
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,640
was no political center that could unify people. The elite,

358
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:59,000
the Slatsa viewed the nation as them, and certainly the peasants.

359
00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:02,680
The Jews were never part of this nation, but they

360
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,400
could help it or hinder it. So I guess starting

361
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,799
in the sixteen twenties and thirties, the constant uprisings against

362
00:27:09,839 --> 00:27:13,720
Polish and Jewish rule began. And what made matters worse

363
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,039
were the nature of the reprisals. It wasn't like they

364
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:20,559
were going to think about why these rebellions occurred and

365
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,599
keep them from happening again. No, they would attempt to

366
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:26,119
go in and slaughter anyone who may be sympathetic to

367
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,480
the revolt. And of course they had to raise mercenaries

368
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,880
because they would never trust an army under royal control.

369
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,279
You know, in sixteen fifty two there was an invasion

370
00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:43,880
of the Polish nobilities hired army that would have destroyed

371
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,400
the host had thought the Russians stepped in. So I

372
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,680
will continue my book on Ukrainian nationalism. I say Kimnisky

373
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:56,920
is quite possibly the most important single person in Ukrainian

374
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:03,839
history after Saint Vladimir himself early on, he defeated the

375
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:09,000
Poles on Moss. He destroyed their parasitism, their usury, and

376
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,559
the independent Cossact state was able to stand at least

377
00:28:12,599 --> 00:28:18,720
for a while. And you know, we can go all

378
00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:22,119
the way back to the Kaisniski revolt of fifteen ninety

379
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,839
one fifteen ninety two. All you know, based on complex concerns,

380
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,759
but you know the point of bringing the Jews in

381
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:37,960
was to keep the crown or to have any countervailing

382
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,480
power in the cities that could be a money class.

383
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:44,079
And the fact that they were successful there, I don't

384
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:48,279
know how many other places tried that, and essentially was

385
00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:53,160
allowing the the elite to have a passive income generated

386
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,880
and maintained by there by these Jews who became some

387
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,640
of the most privileged people on the planet of the.

388
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:08,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, the it's a common story. Sombart's book on the

389
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:11,319
Jews in Modern Capitalism, he goes through a lot of

390
00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:14,039
it where he talks about how, you know, in places

391
00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:19,279
like in Austria, they would a leader of a city

392
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:22,079
would bring would invite a couple of Jews in to

393
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,839
help him with his finances to help him make money.

394
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,000
Also because of the underground network, being able to talk

395
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:35,519
to other leaders around around Europe, and inevitably other Jews

396
00:29:35,519 --> 00:29:39,839
would follow follow in, and they would start doing business

397
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:43,839
with the common folk, and they would immediately put them

398
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:46,599
into debt. And you know, after a decade or two,

399
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,480
the common folk are like, we don't care about about

400
00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:53,599
the uh, you know, the leader of the city, the

401
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,400
mayor of the city, whatever they would be called at

402
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,599
that time, making all of this money. Now we're enslaved

403
00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:01,680
to these people, and we want them gone or we're

404
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,359
going to kill them. And then obviously that would is

405
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,759
what would lead to one of them. You know famous

406
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:11,640
expulsions that we read about over the last you know,

407
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,599
a thousand and fifteen hundred years.

408
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's certainly an expulsion. But you had a

409
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:24,799
number of power centers. The Roman Catholic Church in Poland,

410
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,720
the units, even the Vaticans to some extent, the costs acts,

411
00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:32,759
at least while they were while they were unified. And

412
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,559
this Orthodox Church of Ukraine which did exist, which came

413
00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:45,119
from the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, and maybe the patriarch of Constantinople,

414
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,200
maybe another one by Constantinople at the time was under

415
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:54,920
the Turks and couldn't be of much assistance. There was

416
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,960
there were a handful of loyal bishops at the time,

417
00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:03,079
but as far as the Cossacks were concerned, by say

418
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,440
sixteen fifty, the confederations of these elite Catholics were the

419
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,559
military problem, not Poland, and certainly not the Polish monarchy,

420
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,640
who tended to be very sympathetic to the Cossacks without

421
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:22,119
supporting them directly. And what eventually came out of his

422
00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:28,599
uprising was the Treaty of pedislv And it was a

423
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:36,119
treaty binding the Cossacks, binding themselves to to Moscow, but

424
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:41,359
in exchange for a tremendous amount of autonomy. And that

425
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:46,000
state that signed this treaty didn't have Catholics or Jews

426
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:52,920
within it. Today in Ukraine the units are at the

427
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,559
forefront of the national movement, despite it being a foreign

428
00:31:57,839 --> 00:32:00,640
creation of Polish creation. And there you know, it's to

429
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,480
some extent of the of the Vatican. But the only

430
00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:09,799
thing that could make a cl sect and what he

431
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,519
is and Ukraine or his state independent, is to be Orthodox.

432
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,079
So by the the second half of the seventeenth century,

433
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:27,000
very few people, unless I had an agenda, believe that

434
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:33,759
the CM could be trusted with anything. Again, remember what

435
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:40,240
Poland actually actually was now the Communitsky Uprising in sixteen

436
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:43,000
forty eight. There's been thousands of books and articles in

437
00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:48,079
Russia and Ukrainian and Polish written about him, and the

438
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:51,039
only thing the Cossacks didn't have prior to him was

439
00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:56,400
a talented leader. And the kind of the ideology of

440
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,880
that uprising which I wrote of in my book is

441
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:04,720
an ethno national ideal informed by the Orthodox faith their own.

442
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,799
I don't think that because acts were not religious. They

443
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,000
very much were, and in fact, once the Old Believers

444
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,880
had to escape Moscow two decades later, they became Crossens

445
00:33:21,559 --> 00:33:25,119
today even became in today or an Old Believer movement,

446
00:33:25,119 --> 00:33:28,640
but not solely. Cossacks were never unified under one person,

447
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:34,400
Kimanninskey being an exception. So what that had been created

448
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:39,519
was a centralized and authoritarian system because everyone knew that

449
00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:41,920
the Polls or someone else liked the Turks was going

450
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,480
to try to take a piece of them, And the

451
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:49,960
same thing goes for the Church. The Church had to

452
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,000
have the resources to find the Roman Catholics. In the

453
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,799
one hand, the Jews on the other But the alliance

454
00:33:56,799 --> 00:33:59,480
between the Polish elite and Jewish merchants were so close

455
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:03,920
that it's to separate them. But the Polish elite needed

456
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,880
Jewish networks, they needed their capital, and they needed to

457
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,920
develop or in trade. They didn't have to do anything,

458
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,800
but they still got to cut I guess the only

459
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,519
thing they had to do was keep anyone from hurting

460
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:17,639
of the Jews. But as far as Jews are concerned,

461
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:22,400
the Polish nobility was just convenient. But their insolence, their

462
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,559
their general parasitism made them what I called them my book,

463
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:33,159
an unstable golm for the network's profits. The last thing

464
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,280
in the world that any cost act could do is

465
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:41,199
engaged any kind of served them. But they still needed

466
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:46,519
an alliance, and that that caused them a lot of trouble. Initially,

467
00:34:46,519 --> 00:34:50,400
the the you know, the the early rebellions had maybe

468
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:54,559
one thousands of three thousand, but as the seventeenth century began,

469
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,079
that number started to grow and grow and grow and grow.

470
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:08,320
And that's the important thing to remember. So and I

471
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,679
can now I can continue after that if you would

472
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:14,519
like me to or or do you want me to stop, Well.

473
00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: No, it definitely wants you to to continue with that,

474
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,400
with their history. But I did have one question. You know,

475
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,800
if you if you look, if you say, you go

476
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,440
to Wikipedia on the Cossack page, they differentiate between Russian

477
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,920
and Ukrainian Cossacks. So can you just talk about the

478
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,960
difference historically what they're talking about there.

479
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: They're not talking about ethnic groups. They're talking about loyalties

480
00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:47,760
left Bank Ukraine, the eastern part of the country. I mean,

481
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,599
they're all Orthodox, of course, tended to be pro Russian,

482
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:54,280
although even the most fanatical pro pro Russian hadn't been

483
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,079
had to turn on them, because they especially repeated the

484
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:59,960
Great was extracting so much out of out of Ukra

485
00:36:01,679 --> 00:36:03,800
on the western side, the right bank of the new

486
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,480
Yeppa is where the headman it was the strongest. But

487
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:14,840
you even had some some cossackts to Taria and a

488
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,639
few others who thought that if the treaty is right,

489
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,559
working with Poland as a way to protect themselves from

490
00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:26,440
the Turks maybe workable. They ever became a part of Poland,

491
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:32,400
of course, but and if someone was more if a

492
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,639
leader was more leaned too far to one side or another,

493
00:36:35,639 --> 00:36:40,199
that would be rebellion against him. So everybody. Uh, this

494
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,719
was a huge balancing act for them. So but after

495
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:51,599
the Kimolinsky uprising eventually fizzled down, Kimolinsky is lieutenants and

496
00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:53,800
this is all in my book. By the way, the

497
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,679
two big ones were Ivan Villehowski and Paul uh Tataria,

498
00:36:59,639 --> 00:37:02,800
and I'm fortunately that's where the class conflict in the

499
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:08,280
Cornstack Coast began. Ivan Vlotsky leaned towards Poland as a

500
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,639
reaction to the Russian presence in part of Ukraine after Parislav.

501
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,559
But when he died in sixteen sixty four, the Russians

502
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:21,480
actually created their own Cossack noble class, complete with their

503
00:37:21,519 --> 00:37:27,280
own serfs. You had a Russianized noble class at that point.

504
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,800
But Cossacks who leaned more towards Moscow filment the rebellions

505
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,960
against the Hosky I know the historic great historian Doroshenko

506
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,960
that he claims that Moscow was deliberately spreading myths to

507
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,639
the effect that the heapman is going to hand Ukraine

508
00:37:41,679 --> 00:37:44,840
over to the Poles. That probably was at least in

509
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:51,559
part true. So loyalties split the Cossacks so called Russian

510
00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:56,559
and Polish, as well as class because the classic way

511
00:37:56,679 --> 00:37:59,519
of buying the Cossacks off was to go to the

512
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:02,280
elite and said, listen, you stay loyal to us. You

513
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,599
could keep your way of life, and we will guarantee

514
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:09,280
your lands and even even get some surf of your own.

515
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:17,119
Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. So that's the difference there.

516
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: Alrighty, So yeah, you were talking about moving forward and

517
00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:26,320
moving forward in their history, so go anywhere you'd like

518
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:26,599
to go.

519
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: Well, after the revolt sixteen forty eight, there was something

520
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,280
called the Board of Agreement of sixteen forty nine sixteen

521
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:47,000
fifty and this this was this essentially was their demands

522
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:52,719
that had Polish signatures but no intent of making it real.

523
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,199
So of course, like Ukraine, of one was to include

524
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:03,760
the areas of Kiev, trinegov and Broslav areas under because

525
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,800
that control on the Orthodox people could hold office. The

526
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,880
units were dissolved and its property granted to the Orthodox Church.

527
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:14,159
Of the Metropolitan of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine had

528
00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:18,280
a guaranteed seat in the Polish Senate. Anybody involved in

529
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,280
that rebellion had to be amnesty, which is not the

530
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,679
Polish way of doing things, and that both Jews and

531
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:34,840
Polish landlords will be prevented from ever returning. So that's

532
00:39:35,559 --> 00:39:40,519
what immediately came after the Kimolninsky rebellion. What came after

533
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:49,679
that is what we talk about as as the ruin. Now,

534
00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:53,039
the thing that made Hetmann by Hosky interesting was the

535
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:57,440
proposal called the Highdatch Treaty, which set up a lot

536
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,320
of the same things that I just listed. So much

537
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:06,320
of the Union Church was already destroyed. Many of them

538
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,960
became Orthodox themselves, and that would be a continuous matter

539
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,440
all the way right up into the twentieth century. But

540
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,639
because the argument was even if Poland couldn't be trusted,

541
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,440
the Treaty of Parislav was very strict on Cossak autonomy,

542
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,039
which the Russians had completely violated one hundred times over,

543
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,440
there was something called the trilateralists. Trilateralist solution to Ukrainian independence.

544
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:37,199
The Polish Empire was formerly called the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. Well,

545
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:41,920
what people like the Husky wanted was Polish Lithuanian Russian

546
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,719
union with a great degree of independence on religious freedom

547
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:53,000
as far as the Russian side was concerned, and this

548
00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:57,039
eventually became the Treaty of Parislav, or you know, the

549
00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:03,679
Paraslav was the negation of the High Tree. Even even

550
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,360
Kiminiski's son Yuri, who was pretty halpless but well meaning,

551
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,079
thought that the polls would be better now that they've

552
00:41:11,119 --> 00:41:17,280
been defeated, better than that the Russians would be, and

553
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,480
he eventually became a puppet heapman of the Turks. So

554
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,960
and again amnesty was always a part of it, because

555
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:31,039
Polish reprisals were absolutely disastrous. The Hetman at this point,

556
00:41:31,079 --> 00:41:34,639
I don't know, sixteen sixty five something like that was Doroshchenko.

557
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,880
The Zerdevsky articles were with another treaty with the Russians,

558
00:41:40,599 --> 00:41:44,400
promising local autonomy. If there were Russian troops and cross areas,

559
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,199
they had to be under the command of the Hetman,

560
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,679
and that Ukraine had to be totally unified, and just

561
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,800
as in Portland, that the Orthodox Church would have to

562
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,400
come under Constantinople or at least Jerusalem. And much of

563
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,920
that was ultimately rejected. But by sixteen sixty five or so,

564
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,719
the position of the Cossack host was very poor and

565
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,400
one of the reasons and the corruption had come in,

566
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:17,079
especially under Moscow, and they would place very high taxes

567
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:18,639
on them, and this is why some people ended up

568
00:42:18,639 --> 00:42:25,239
going to going to Poland. But even even very pro

569
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:31,000
Russian Hetmans in the east like Brugwitski, who personally came

570
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:34,719
under the monarch, the Russian monarch's protection and he had

571
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,639
one demand. He had one single demand, and that was

572
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:40,960
that Ukrainian common law, other words, the traditional law the

573
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,960
Cossack hosts would be respected and because of that, loyalty

574
00:42:46,039 --> 00:42:48,960
was promised to the Czar and his interest. So what

575
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,280
it comes down to is the retention of the Cossack

576
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:57,199
tradition and in urban areas that they had the Magdeburg

577
00:42:57,519 --> 00:43:03,519
law from Germany. The city were essentially independent and elections

578
00:43:03,519 --> 00:43:07,000
to urban offices, of course, had to be orthodox, and

579
00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:09,760
any election for any of these offices had to be

580
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,159
free and done according to local tradition. Yes, Russia promised

581
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:16,639
it and then violated any time they got the chance.

582
00:43:18,199 --> 00:43:20,880
So if one side of this got too strong, if

583
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,400
the turch became too strong, if the polls became too strong,

584
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,440
if the Russians became too strong, there was always a

585
00:43:26,559 --> 00:43:30,559
reaction to go elsewhere. One of the things that made

586
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:32,679
had been in Mazeppa unique is that he went to

587
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,960
the Swedes. Given the nature of the war that was

588
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,480
already already going on. And the great thing about that

589
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,079
was Sweden was too far away to really administer the

590
00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:46,039
Cossack host well, I mean, anyone wanted to get away

591
00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:49,239
from Peter the Great. He reduced the Costack host absolutely

592
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:58,440
nothing to ultimately no one trusted anybody, not even internally.

593
00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:05,159
And the only well stable point was the Deporosian Sick,

594
00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:11,159
always the most radical of the of the of the

595
00:44:11,199 --> 00:44:18,920
Cossack groups, and that wasn't shut down until until Catherine

596
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,840
the Great, So you know, you had uprisings all over

597
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,920
the place, and the worst thing that happened, we'll talk

598
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,760
about this here in a minute, something called the Treaty

599
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,599
of Andrew Suvan in sixteen sixty seven, which will negate

600
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,639
the Cossacks state entirely and divide Ukraine between Poland and Russia,

601
00:44:37,679 --> 00:44:41,920
which was a tremendous betrayal since that's the one time

602
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,320
where the Poles returned to that part that was promised

603
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:50,199
to them, and the Jewish users returned. So Poland and

604
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,159
Russia were now bound by treaty is equels at the

605
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,360
expense of Ukraine, and the Cossacks and those who felt

606
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,599
within the Polish sector were right back to where they

607
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:03,920
were before. So pauland sciently took the right bank, Russia

608
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:09,159
took the left bank, and that condemned those in the

609
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,840
right bank, was an insult, and condemned thousands of Orthodox

610
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:20,119
Russians to expropriation and exploitation. And I guess part of

611
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:22,960
the point of Andrewshovo was to combine Polish and Russian

612
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,519
forces against against Turkey.

613
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 1: Why don't you keep going, I don't really have a

614
00:45:29,039 --> 00:45:31,440
I don't really have a question on anything there.

615
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,519
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I want to pull us from time to

616
00:45:35,559 --> 00:45:36,400
time just in case you do.

617
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you.

618
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:43,039
Speaker 2: But that, yeah, that treaty was an absolute disaster, and

619
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:45,119
it created another I would talk about here in a

620
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:50,440
little bit, created another massive rebellion, probably the last one,

621
00:45:51,079 --> 00:45:53,800
the Heidemart rebellion. We'll get to that here in a second.

622
00:45:56,199 --> 00:46:00,639
Because of Andrewsovo and the subsequent treaties, pull in Russia

623
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:04,960
divided the area of the host. Free trade was proclaimed,

624
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:09,440
but that was his code for Polish colonization and dispossession.

625
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,199
It meant massive interest rates and Jewish rule without any

626
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:18,400
countervailing power. Now, Russia had a tough time dealing with

627
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,920
that because Jewish capital structure in Poland was far more

628
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,199
experienced and far wealthier than the relatively small merchant class

629
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,639
in Russia, so any kind of cost Tec independence was nullified,

630
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,840
and sixteen seventy two something called the cometap Articles imposed

631
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:40,480
a heatman on Ukraine that had absolutely no independence whatsoever.

632
00:46:43,159 --> 00:46:47,440
And this is why Russia is unpopular in certain certain

633
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:51,039
Ukrainian circles historically speaking. But I want to talk about

634
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:54,400
someone else, one of my favorite people at the time,

635
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,079
and that is the military leader of the Cossack Ivan Circle.

636
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,840
He is the unsung hero of this era we're talking

637
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,280
about sixteen seventy something like that. He was from the sick,

638
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:15,199
the Porosian. He backed rebellions against Moscow. I'm thinking of

639
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,559
Razine in particular. He unified Ukraine to the defeat of

640
00:47:19,559 --> 00:47:23,559
both Polish and Turkish forces. He was eventually arrested and

641
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:27,599
sent to Siberia, but once the Turks began to advance,

642
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:31,360
they had to call him back. In sixteen seventy four

643
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,639
there was a massive Turkish invasion. That circle had defeated.

644
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,440
The Russian had been on their side, Temlovitch didn't do

645
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:43,440
a thing. A year later, fifteen thousand elite janissaries not

646
00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:49,000
to mention regular forces invaded Ukraine. Circo again defeated Ukraine

647
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:56,679
the cream of the Ottoman army. Sixteen seventy eight, another

648
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,199
huge Turkish invasion. Russia didn't do anything, Lovich wouldn't do anything,

649
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:08,519
but Circo repelled them. A third time the coalition force

650
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:11,760
under Circo grew to very large numbers, and a fourth

651
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:17,199
time a Turkish invading force was defeated. Ivan Circo was

652
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,679
watching the Turkish Empire at this point. Its best fighting

653
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,159
men were destroyed, and the road seemed open for the

654
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:27,559
Cossnacks to take this Turkish capital of this dambul. Rather

655
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,039
than the Russians and some alov It's taking this as

656
00:48:31,039 --> 00:48:36,000
a serious way to completely take Constantinople, they ended up

657
00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:40,760
destroying the Cossack sick for a time. Circo, who saw

658
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,960
the possibility of destroying Turkey forever, was forced to retreat

659
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:49,679
and he died a broken man. What ended up happening

660
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,920
is that the hetmun Dorshenko and the Russians negated everything

661
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,239
that he did. The bizarre thing it's that right after

662
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,039
Circle's death, Russia then went on to the Holy League

663
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:05,880
as a military force against Turkey. Circle could have easily

664
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:12,280
destroyed Turkey and maybe even Poland to Russian. Ukraine was

665
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:17,159
an oligraphy with both Cossack and Russian nobles that owned

666
00:49:17,159 --> 00:49:22,840
about half the land. It wasn't the Jews, but the

667
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,800
Cossack elites who controlled the cities and that part of Ukraine.

668
00:49:28,159 --> 00:49:32,760
And the claim is that that the Russians, their colonial governors,

669
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,639
corrupted the Cossack elite. They went out of their way

670
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:47,400
to save Turkey by sending Circle away. Uh So that's

671
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,480
and and throughout all of this Circle tried to enlist

672
00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:55,719
the assistance of Semlovitch on the on the left bank.

673
00:49:57,199 --> 00:50:02,559
After a while, Circle did endorse the pro Moscow but

674
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:05,159
even said in a letter of sixteen seventy seven that

675
00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:10,239
we aren't going to separate from you. They do talk

676
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,960
about Ukrainian fatherland, but it's hard to tell whether they're

677
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,519
talking about a nation or just the fact that this

678
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:21,079
is the Russian borderlands or the Polish borderlands for that matter.

679
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:27,239
So Circle was was just was the absolute perfection of

680
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:32,119
the Cossack history, and he was destroyed by his own allies.

681
00:50:35,199 --> 00:50:42,000
So this was an absolute, absolute disaster. And many of

682
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:49,519
the offers by the Cossack host to Poland were completely defeated.

683
00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:56,119
And had this occurred, had this treaty been accepted, there

684
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:58,760
would have been a Ukrainian Orthodox identity outside of the

685
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,880
Russian fold side of anything Polish, and possibly could have

686
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:08,119
brought Old Believers into the Ukrainian Communion as a way

687
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:12,079
to control the Russian incursion. The Austrians would do the

688
00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:16,519
same thing a little bit later. So, but that's not

689
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,480
just a left bank and the right bank too. The

690
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:24,119
Vaihousky alienated poor Cossacks because he was constantly negotiating with

691
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,480
the Poles, and the terrible fear was that the Jews

692
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:34,920
We're going to come back, And so Vakhoski was seen

693
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,679
as pro Polish, others were seen as pro Russia and

694
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:45,280
had Mazeppa seen as pro pro Turkish. But once Russia

695
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,440
had corrupted the left bank Ukraine, Poland was viewed by

696
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,239
a lot of his allies as a lesser evil relative

697
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,800
to Russia. Vakhoski was a lawyer ultimately, I mean he

698
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,599
created a balanced budget, laid the groundwork for institutions, created

699
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:05,000
financial reserves without Jewish assistance. And we're getting into an

700
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:10,519
era that's called the Ruin where the gains and victories

701
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:14,920
of both Circle and kim Oninsky were completely negated. All

702
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,800
previous treaties were null and void, and the one thing

703
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,480
that dominated everything was class rule and the rank and

704
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:26,719
file revolted on both banks of Ukraine. And these men

705
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,079
to Taria of Hofsky, these were all lieutenants of kim

706
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:36,599
Onitsky's and part of his campaigns against Poland that the

707
00:52:36,679 --> 00:52:41,599
ruin it negated everything, it didn't destroy the ideas. And

708
00:52:41,639 --> 00:52:46,000
then you have the interesting case of Peter Dorshenko. I

709
00:52:46,119 --> 00:52:51,199
mentioned a ready. He blamed the upper classes becausecohost on

710
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,480
both banks, especially the Left Bank, for this ruin, this

711
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:58,480
period of utter powerlessness, but thought that there were resources

712
00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:03,719
to continue the state building as Doctioning had done. And

713
00:53:04,039 --> 00:53:06,400
Dorshenko is one of the few who was able to

714
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:11,000
centralize the country to himself both banks. Unfortunately he had

715
00:53:11,039 --> 00:53:15,880
to go to the Turks to do that. Doroshenko was

716
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,480
as anti Polish as it was anti anti Russian. The

717
00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:22,280
Russian state is the one who elected Somemolovich to the

718
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,920
to the Left Bank, and this was seen not just

719
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,639
as an ethnic distinction, but also as a class distinction.

720
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,320
You know, if the Jews were going to be out.

721
00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:35,840
Monetization had to come from somewhere, and it's very easy

722
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:37,440
to buy some of these people off. I mean, the

723
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:40,000
Kossak ideal is a little nomadic. The sick didn't known

724
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:46,599
anything but the landed Cossacks in Ukraine proper, not on

725
00:53:46,639 --> 00:53:52,360
the island. Dorshenko had no choice but to go to Turkey,

726
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,039
and just like in Kimooninsky's case, he did go to

727
00:53:56,079 --> 00:53:59,719
the Crimeans the Turks, despite signing treaty saying we're not

728
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,719
going to under anything. That's all they did, and Circle

729
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,800
predicted this. Dodoshenko became very unpopular because now we have

730
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,679
Islamic plundering and the Jews right behind them. Of course,

731
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,639
and using the Turks was his undoing. One thing other

732
00:54:15,679 --> 00:54:17,639
than that that he was known for is that he

733
00:54:17,679 --> 00:54:22,000
created a personal guard, praetorian guard, completely loyal to him

734
00:54:22,519 --> 00:54:24,559
and appointed by him alone. This was a way that

735
00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:27,840
he thought he could break the class status on both

736
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:35,280
sides of both banks. So he ruled from sixteen sixty five,

737
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,639
I want to say sixteen seventy six. He did briefly

738
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:46,920
unite both banks, and he was typical. Hepman in all

739
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:51,039
other respects, but because Kimolninski had initially asked for the

740
00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:54,039
assistants of Crimea going to the Muslims now was okay,

741
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:58,159
or at least that's what he thought. And then this

742
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,880
unified Ukraine would play Poland and Russia off against each

743
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:12,880
other and to a lesser extent, the Turks. So Russia

744
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,920
then started to rule Ukrainian lands directly in sixteen sixty six,

745
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,280
sixteen sixty seven, in sixteen sixty five they were the

746
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,920
so called Moscow Articles, which was a complete domination of

747
00:55:26,119 --> 00:55:32,000
Russia over over Ukraine. But there was a cost sect

748
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,280
that's had nothing to do with Ukraine and the ethnicity,

749
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:39,760
although they probably recognized it, they're all Orthodox Slavs. Turkey

750
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,159
was seen as the the main enemy at this point,

751
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:48,280
and that justified them going to the Turkey. But Kimoninsky

752
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:54,119
considered it as well as a way to balance Poland.

753
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,199
So even the most pro Moscow, the Cossseck rulers would

754
00:55:58,199 --> 00:56:03,440
eventually turn on Russia's heavy handed You know, Brukovetski was

755
00:56:03,639 --> 00:56:06,960
as pro Russian as you can get. But every promise

756
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,079
that they made they broke. And of course no one

757
00:56:09,159 --> 00:56:12,719
was worse than Peter. I remember Saint Petersburg was built

758
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:17,119
on the bones of Cossacks who, because of the rebellion

759
00:56:17,119 --> 00:56:20,760
of Mazeppa were worked, were worked to death. The city

760
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,239
is literally I mean, it's a gnostic. The city is

761
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,880
literally built on the bones of old Russia, that is

762
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,400
to say, the remnants of the of the Cossack hosts.

763
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,159
So so even even pro Russian. Uh. Now, the only

764
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,320
reason that the polls were slightly more reasonable is because

765
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,719
they were much weaker. They even promised an independent church,

766
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,719
but that was constantly being violated. That's why Ivan Mazeppa

767
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:53,679
was going to defect and went to the went went

768
00:56:53,679 --> 00:56:57,400
to the Swedes because the Russo Swedish War was going on.

769
00:56:58,519 --> 00:57:05,400
Mazeppa brought the Baroque from Poland, and he stressed the

770
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,840
ethnic connection of all of those within the head minute

771
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:15,239
he needed to create his own ruling class. And he

772
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,800
fully admits that the Treaty of Androsova was the worst

773
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,800
thing that could have happened to Ukraine. A lot of

774
00:57:21,199 --> 00:57:24,760
excellent writers had said the same thing. So in Mazeppa's time,

775
00:57:25,639 --> 00:57:29,719
the last hope was Sweden. Everyone else had been tried.

776
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,840
And not to mention the fact that the Russians at

777
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,199
the time were under Peter the Great Peter the Great

778
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:42,000
was a freemason. He was an occultist. I have an

779
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:45,400
article about his drunken synod where he was a Satanist.

780
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,119
He created his own make believe church centered around alcohol,

781
00:57:50,039 --> 00:57:51,599
and given the Orthodox point of view, he had no

782
00:57:51,639 --> 00:57:54,480
political legitimacy. Not to mention, he moved to Capital at

783
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:58,360
some point and the fact that so many Cossacks perished

784
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,960
in the it was a white sea building project, the

785
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,360
foundation of Saint Petersburg. But of course we all know

786
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,039
what happened. Mazeppa went to Charles the twelfth and they

787
00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:13,719
were both destroyed. So beginning of the eighteenth century, Ukraine

788
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,800
had become part of the Russian Empire after the feet

789
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:24,199
of Edmond Mazeppa and he fled to Turkey along with

790
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:32,400
the Swedish king. So you know, but that's the basic

791
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:43,119
structure of the Cossack And I'm saving to the end

792
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,360
the last rebellion, the Khalivashina, or they had a mac

793
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,559
rebellion in seventeen sixty eight. But I want to pause

794
00:58:50,639 --> 00:58:52,159
right here and see if you have anything to say.

795
00:58:53,559 --> 00:58:55,079
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I was going to say, if you're going

796
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:57,159
to finish up with that, that would be great, And

797
00:58:57,199 --> 00:58:59,639
then you know, maybe we can go a follow up

798
00:58:59,679 --> 00:59:02,719
on a follow up one day and get in some

799
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,000
more modern times to talk about palest settlement and up

800
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:11,320
through the revolution, because there were still Cossacks. Cossacks still

801
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,360
existed in nineteen seventeen, So let's finish up this period

802
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,400
and then we'll work on another period another time.

803
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:24,679
Speaker 2: All right, Well, remember the Cossacks still exists today, usually

804
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:28,119
pro Russian. And the War Ukraine of course destroyed anything

805
00:59:28,199 --> 00:59:33,119
any concern with Ukraine. But the last true rebellion was

806
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:35,199
in seventeen sixty eight and Captain of the Second was

807
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:43,480
in Petersburg. And just like before, Poland was divided between

808
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,559
I'm sorry that the Ukraine was divided between Poland and Moscow,

809
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:56,320
and those under Poland we're yet again under the Jews.

810
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,880
And now those in Poland had the even even worse

811
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,039
treatment than they had in the past. And the uprising,

812
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,239
the Khulivashina uprising, was one of the reasons the Polish

813
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:13,039
Empire collapsed. The arrogance of the Jews never went anywhere.

814
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:17,079
They behaved the exact same way, including after the Polish

815
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:22,280
Empire fell apart. They created something called the Bar Confederation,

816
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:26,559
as was the Polish a military alliance of a few

817
01:00:26,639 --> 01:00:33,039
landlords against the Polish King Stanislaus Augustus, also against Russian

818
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:38,400
troops in parts of Poland and yes, Russian fland. The

819
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:43,599
weakened the Polish Empire, but not necessarily in power, a

820
01:00:44,199 --> 01:00:46,760
sort of a Cossack force because they were a shadow

821
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:53,599
of their former self by seventeen sixty eight. In seventeen

822
01:00:53,639 --> 01:00:56,679
sixty eight there was specifically an incident based on the

823
01:00:56,679 --> 01:01:02,159
oppression of Polish lords and Jews against and forcing them

824
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:06,480
to join the Catholic Church to join the Union, and

825
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,840
as time went on the rights of the Orthodox were

826
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:20,840
whittled away to absolutely nothing and making matters worse, that

827
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:26,039
very same year, Prince Nikolai Ripinion had to proclaim the

828
01:01:26,039 --> 01:01:30,320
equality of Orthodox and Protestants with Catholics, including the right

829
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:36,079
to hold government positions being on top, and that caused

830
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:39,320
indignation not just amongst the Ukrainians, but the Polish elites too,

831
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,239
and the result of all that was the Bar Confederation

832
01:01:45,239 --> 01:01:47,840
and the Bar Confederation. This was the only unified institutions

833
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:53,039
Poland had, and they did engage in programs against the Orthodox,

834
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,599
and that was a reprisal for this rebellion started in

835
01:01:58,639 --> 01:02:02,519
May of seventeen sixty eight Abbot the Milkisedic of the

836
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:09,039
Motronitsky Monastery in the southern part of Kiev. The Zaporosian

837
01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:13,119
had at the time with Maxim Zelizniak, who initially only

838
01:02:13,159 --> 01:02:16,360
had eighteen people, but given the arrogance of the Jews,

839
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:23,280
it grew tremendously and it engulfed almost the entire southeastern

840
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:28,079
part of Kiev and the even expanded west. Now it

841
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:30,400
wasn't all Cossacks in this case, but you did have

842
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:35,559
the core of it was Zaparosian. Once you still had

843
01:02:35,559 --> 01:02:38,159
plenty of runaway peasants and everything else, soldiers from Russia

844
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,480
who participated in all of this. The assumption was that

845
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:46,480
once the Russians realized that we're we can do it,

846
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,239
they will go to Saint Petersburg for assistance because they figured, well,

847
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,599
they want to they want to weaken Poland. And yet

848
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,960
it didn't happen. It was a systematic rebellion. The Lisniak

849
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:04,880
sent attachments all over the place, and there was something

850
01:03:05,079 --> 01:03:08,239
is a fictitious document called the Golden Charter of Catherine

851
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,519
the Second, which allegedly permitted the extermination of Jews and

852
01:03:12,559 --> 01:03:17,400
polls and independence for the for the Cossacks, this was

853
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,400
not a real document, but many of the rebels thought

854
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:25,760
it was real, so they they engaged in an uprising

855
01:03:26,159 --> 01:03:29,119
based on this alleged golden Charter of Catherine the Second.

856
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,280
But this uprising led to mass exodus of both Polish

857
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:40,199
elites and Jews, and it ended up being Zilisniaks. Movement

858
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:45,920
was was very large and he restored independence. He really

859
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,320
in this case you had peasant costs act attachments. Heidemach

860
01:03:49,599 --> 01:03:58,400
was a peasant rebel. It engulfed most of Kiev Galicia,

861
01:03:58,719 --> 01:04:06,079
and no one was spared. Detachments destroyed everybody their traditional enemies,

862
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:12,360
because the confederation ultimately left the civilian population unprotected. Once

863
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,760
they were had to go and retreat. The Heida Mox

864
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,559
actually hanged a Polish nobleman, a unit priest, and a

865
01:04:20,639 --> 01:04:23,920
Jew on the same tree and had the inscription a pole,

866
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:29,000
a Jew and a dog the same faith. I don't

867
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,280
know if they killed a dog for that or not,

868
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:35,360
but it happened all the time. And but by this

869
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:39,280
point the anger had reached tremendous levels. Yes, some of

870
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,960
these rebels didn't think every Jew needed to be eliminated,

871
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:47,760
but many of them were. They learned nothing from Kimio Nitsky,

872
01:04:50,199 --> 01:04:53,199
and this was the last real uprising of the Costsacks

873
01:04:53,239 --> 01:04:59,079
really until the Russian Civil War. Most of the Catherine

874
01:04:59,079 --> 01:05:03,920
the Second had as well as the Poles, had tries

875
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:10,159
to Lisniak and others. There is a book, the kodinskaye Niga,

876
01:05:11,519 --> 01:05:14,800
the protocols of some of the court hearings. There most

877
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:18,679
of these guys were tortured to death. Between seventeen sixty

878
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:23,440
nine seventeen seventy three hundred people were executed, and this

879
01:05:23,559 --> 01:05:27,239
is what finally allowed Catherine the Second to destroy his

880
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:32,679
up Eurosium costs, that host which never really returned. They

881
01:05:32,679 --> 01:05:39,000
weren't military rebels, they were simply criminals. In other words,

882
01:05:40,519 --> 01:05:42,800
the Russians, even though Catherine the Great was not Russian,

883
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:49,880
and the eighteenth century in Russia itself was an absolute disaster. Politically,

884
01:05:50,719 --> 01:05:54,639
they fought for Poland, which was a huge shock to

885
01:05:54,679 --> 01:05:58,960
everyone involved. Not only that, but rounded the rebels up

886
01:06:00,199 --> 01:06:03,039
for not just their own but for Polish interests. How

887
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:06,599
Russia can be served by supporting Polish interests is a mystery,

888
01:06:07,599 --> 01:06:11,280
very much like Dordosenko with the with the Turks, but

889
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,800
she actually wrote these men be punished with the most

890
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:19,719
severe execution, used only with the greatest of criminals, and

891
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:26,559
he included the entire population of the Separosian seat at

892
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:31,000
the same time. So, you know, we've covered a lot

893
01:06:31,039 --> 01:06:35,639
of ground here. But the Jews were in that top

894
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:41,559
three enemies of the Cossacks, Polish landlords, Jews, and the

895
01:06:41,559 --> 01:06:45,519
Greek Catholics so called, and I guess Catholics in general,

896
01:06:46,559 --> 01:06:51,280
because they looked to Poland rather than anyone else. Catherine

897
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:57,960
then purged the church yet again. Abbit Makisedek was transferred,

898
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:02,880
and the Greek Catholic depolopan Kiev at the time, Philip Volakovich,

899
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,840
instigated even worse persecutions of the Orthodox and in the

900
01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:12,840
in the new Polish confederations that were being being formed.

901
01:07:14,119 --> 01:07:20,000
So uh, that's that was the last major uprising and

902
01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:26,320
the destruction of anything approaching Cossack independence. And it wasn't

903
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,039
until the Russian Revolution so called the Russian Civil War

904
01:07:29,079 --> 01:07:33,159
that the Cossacks again showed themselves in spaces like you know,

905
01:07:33,239 --> 01:07:38,280
Todak on the dawn, even on the Volga rose up

906
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:42,079
against the communists. Uh, and consistently did so. Right up

907
01:07:42,119 --> 01:07:43,159
until the German invasion.

908
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,159
Speaker 1: Well that's fantastic. Yeah, I want to follow this up

909
01:07:47,199 --> 01:07:49,599
with another episode where we can pick up there and

910
01:07:49,639 --> 01:07:52,480
go forward and come into the modern day. That would

911
01:07:52,519 --> 01:07:52,920
be great.

912
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:53,159
Speaker 2: Sure.

913
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: Just like always, I'm a new link to all the

914
01:07:58,039 --> 01:08:02,760
places where people can can donate to, you can subscribe to,

915
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:08,639
you to your work, and yeah that it's it's always

916
01:08:08,679 --> 01:08:11,760
a pleasure. And I made sure last time I have

917
01:08:12,039 --> 01:08:15,840
all of the places where where people can can support

918
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,359
your work because I know this is what you do,

919
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,680
this is what you do full time. And like like

920
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:27,359
many other people, there aren't any universities knocking down your

921
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:29,319
knocking down your door to ask you to come and

922
01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:30,960
work for come and teach either.

923
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the only place I could be comfortable

924
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:40,920
would be in parts of Russia itself, Belarus especially, who knows,

925
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:47,439
maybe even wrong, these are highly literate places. But yeah,

926
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:49,960
you know, the university was my life for a long time,

927
01:08:50,119 --> 01:08:53,920
was a professor for years really until until COVID. I

928
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,920
didn't want to do online. I need an audience. I

929
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,600
need to I need to scare a freshman. I I

930
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,359
you know, I can't do it. I can't do that online.

931
01:09:02,199 --> 01:09:05,439
Although I do want to note that my po box,

932
01:09:06,079 --> 01:09:10,039
the one entire hill, no longer functions. I will be

933
01:09:10,119 --> 01:09:14,000
opening a new one soon, and when that happens, I'll

934
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:19,560
give the number and city to you and to anybody else.

935
01:09:20,159 --> 01:09:23,520
So donations and stuff either come through my Patreon or

936
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:30,319
direct donations through my the link. It's not PayPal because

937
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:32,720
they got kicked off there, but I've got one of

938
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:35,720
their competitors to do it, and you'll, you know, they'll

939
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,640
see when they click what you have here, because yeah,

940
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,159
this is full time. I'm completely independent, but to maintain

941
01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:44,960
my independence, I have to have my own source of income.

942
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:50,239
And I have plenty of generous donors because I've been

943
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:53,119
around for so long. I've been doing the same things

944
01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:57,560
for so long that they know I'm not fly by

945
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,520
night and that they can they can trust me. Your

946
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:05,439
listeners tend to be very generous, and it's just so

947
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,479
difficult to try to summarize something like the call section

948
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:14,479
Jews through history and you know, fifty minutes. That's very,

949
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:20,319
very difficult, and hopefully I was coherent. But yeah, your

950
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:24,199
listeners are excellent, and I appreciate whatever they can do

951
01:10:24,279 --> 01:10:28,000
to assist me and to keep me independent. Yep.

952
01:10:28,159 --> 01:10:31,199
Speaker 1: I will. I will definitely make sure that they have

953
01:10:31,359 --> 01:10:34,560
access to that information so that they can do that.

954
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,199
And yeah, I do. The people who listen to this show,

955
01:10:38,199 --> 01:10:41,920
I don't tell them often enough how much how great

956
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,239
they are and how much I love them, but each

957
01:10:44,319 --> 01:10:48,880
and everyone, and you know, one more thing before we

958
01:10:49,039 --> 01:10:51,119
we leave this. You talked about how you've been doing

959
01:10:51,119 --> 01:10:56,199
this for a long time, and I think now we're

960
01:10:56,239 --> 01:10:59,079
starting to see that the kind of things that you've

961
01:10:59,079 --> 01:11:03,239
been talking about ye for forever, you know, for as

962
01:11:03,279 --> 01:11:07,239
long as you have starting to crack the mainstream and

963
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:09,479
normies are starting to ask questions.

964
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,560
Speaker 2: I have noticed that. And as things get worse and

965
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,039
worse and worse, more of our people are going to

966
01:11:17,079 --> 01:11:19,399
be radicalized, and they're going to be looking for answers.

967
01:11:20,079 --> 01:11:23,159
I will trust the media, so they're gonna be looking elsewhere,

968
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:25,039
and I hope that they start looking at people like

969
01:11:25,119 --> 01:11:26,279
me and you and others.

970
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,159
Speaker 1: Thank you, doctor Johnson. I appreciate it always.

971
01:11:31,960 --> 01:12:00,520
Speaker 2: All right, You're welcome, my friend s