WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:04.639 And aside slavery, child sacrifice, women, a second class citizens, 2 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:07.719 a global flood that never happened, power of Bible that 3 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:10.759 never happened, in exodus that never happened. And that's just 4 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:13.199 the first few books. If the Bible is a divine 5 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:15.279 word of an all knowing God, it's the worst edited 6 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:18.039 book in history. You believe the Bible is a good book, 7 00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:21.280 all in make the cads for it because the show 8 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:33.880 it starts now. Hello, everybody. Today is August second of 9 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:37.359 twenty twenty six. It is not August second, it is 10 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:41.520 August ninth of twenty twenty six. I'm sorry. We want 11 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:44.320 to welcome you all to the atheist experience. Thanks for 12 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:47.880 joining us today. I'm Jim Burrows, and joining me right 13 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:52.679 now is Jamie the Blind lamey. Oh, I'm sorry, Kelly, 14 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.960 I'm looking at the wrong person. 15 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:59.359 That's so great, Jamie, he's just their bank up push. Yes, 16 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:01.960 Jamie is here. You're not hallucinating. 17 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:10.239 I'm a professional. I know what I'm doing. So it 18 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:11.840 has been a little while. What have you been up to? 19 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:14.640 I you know, not much. I mean we just got 20 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:17.200 to see each other about a week ago. So and Jim, 21 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:20.000 I dude, I always look forward to hanging out with you. 22 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:22.799 So I was, and I was supposed to just be 23 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:23.719 the backup post. 24 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:24.000 Today. 25 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:25.560 When I found out that you did sell me to 26 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:27.799 step up, I was like, yes, I get to work 27 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:28.519 with Jim again. 28 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:29.200 Awesome. 29 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:33.280 Yeah, well hopefully I get to stay the entire show. 30 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:35.359 We do have storms in about an hour ago, my 31 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:37.239 power went out for about two seconds. 32 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:41.120 Oh that sucks. Well we got Jamie just in case. Yeah, 33 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:43.920 so we'll see how it goes. 34 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:47.680 Being out in you know, southern Alabama, out and the 35 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:50.920 Sticks has its benefits, but it also has its drawbacks. 36 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:54.359 I live in the Sticks too, so I totally get it. 37 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:58.799 I totally yeah. And Alabama just there infrastructure sucks. So 38 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:02.359 it is what it is us. Well, we are the 39 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:05.079 Atheist Experience. It is a product of the Atheist Community 40 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:08.000 of Boston, a five h one c three nonprofit organization 41 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:12.199 dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, 42 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:12.439 and the. 43 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:14.400 Segregation of religion and government. 44 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.879 This means that you can give us a tax free 45 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.120 donation as many as you want, the more of the marrier, 46 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:22.280 and no not only is going to a good cause, 47 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:25.360 but also that it helps you too. We are tri 48 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:27.680 streaming tonight, So a big shout out to our viewers 49 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:31.039 on TikTok and YouTube mobile. If you're watching on TikTok 50 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.319 tonight and you'd like to talk to us, request to 51 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:35.919 join and we'll bring you up on stage. Please make 52 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.240 sure that you are over eighteen years of age before 53 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:44.120 doing so, especially if you're coming from TikTok. 54 00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:48.800 Take some calls, Kelly, Yeah, eh, if we got calls, 55 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:53.080 let's just jump right in. Alrighty, So our. 56 00:02:53.000 --> 00:03:03.319 First caller is Donald from either Louisiana or LA. So 57 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:07.520 you want to talk about the unactualized actualizer and you're 58 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:09.159 an atheist? 59 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:09.120 Correct? 60 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:15.560 Yes, yes, I was invited here. I was previously on 61 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:23.840 from the What is It talk? Even Yeah yeah, okay. 62 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:31.759 So basically the argument would be, there is actuality, something exists. 63 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.879 You can doubt almost anything. You can doubt your senses, 64 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:39.080 you can doubt whether the world looks anything like how 65 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.960 you perceive it. You can even entertain the possibility that 66 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:48.840 you're dreaming or living in the simulation. But the information 67 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:58.199 that distance exists cannot itself be eliminated by skepticism, like 68 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:03.319 the stamente existence exists to exist, at least as on 69 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:05.639 an informational level, and you could go so far as 70 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:10.240 saying it's a thought or or proposition in order to 71 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:16.480 even be considered. So as we begin with actuality, something 72 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:21.399 is and one something is, we immediately have distinction between 73 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:25.680 existence and non existence, and things being true and things 74 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:31.079 being false, between a and not a, And distinction is 75 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:36.160 important because without distinction we cannot have information. If for this, 76 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:40.680 I'm going to define information at a fundamental level as 77 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:46.360 structured distinction between possible states. If there is no difference whatsoever, 78 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:51.000 there is nothing to distinguish, nothing to compare, and nothing 79 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:56.560 to measure, and nothing to inform or give information. Now 80 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:01.240 consider change. Suppose something is cool old and becomes hot 81 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:09.639 or or late, and so heat moves moves into the object. 82 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:16.079 Before the change, being hot was possible. Afterward hot is actual, 83 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:20.079 So we moved from potentially hot to actually hot. 84 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:25.639 So let me just center up here, as you started 85 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:30.079 with a really really good topic, and energy, an energy 86 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:31.160 be created or described? 87 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.279 Can energy be ordered or described? 88 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:37.160 And to be created or described? 89 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:44.680 Well, the law of thermo dynamic says energy can either 90 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.480 be created nor destroyed. 91 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.959 So so I don't need anything more than energy to 92 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:55.279 I mean energy is that on actualized, actualized. Right, it's 93 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:58.439 the thing that, as far as we can tell, is 94 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:00.639 responsible for the beginning the universe. 95 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:06.759 Right, Well, okay, well I would argue before well I 96 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:09.279 was going to get to this, but I would argue 97 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:13.759 space and time is more fundamental than energy, and I 98 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:15.360 would matter, and then I. 99 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.600 I can is it? I can destroy matter. I mean 100 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:23.720 that within a nuclear explosion. So it doesn't that doesn't 101 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:25.839 get men. And you can't get any more basic than 102 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:30.759 energy because energy equals MC squared. Yeah, energy is all 103 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:31.120 I need. 104 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:36.199 No, I think information is more fundamental than energy. Prove it. 105 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:43.160 What what do you make with information without energy? Okay? 106 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:49.879 Well, some rules like the fact that existence exists, or 107 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:55.720 the logical rules like non contradiction, I would say, make 108 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.319 energy possible, like energy and changing. 109 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:01.199 Yeah much, sure, I'm not sure about that. 110 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:05.800 And please the Yeah, the laws, the laws of logic 111 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:10.759 require a mind to understand. Right, they are a way 112 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:12.879 that we describe the universe. So it's math. 113 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.399 So how how is that fundamental? 114 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:21.600 Okay? Some of the rules of logic are you could say, 115 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:28.600 or more concepts and there are approximations. But I I 116 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:37.079 would say, some logical rules you are are are prior 117 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:43.519 like the for energy to happen, for actions and energy 118 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:47.399 to happen. You're saying, oh, there's a there's a higher 119 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.639 energy state and then there's like a lower energy state. Well, 120 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:56.560 that requires a distinction in space and time, Like. 121 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:58.199 I don't think you said that. 122 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.199 No, you don't need to say in space of time, right, 123 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:04.319 and whether you need a distinction in space time or 124 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:07.120 space and time depending on which the area of time 125 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:10.759 you go with. Right, we don't even know that which 126 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:12.279 are those two things are real? 127 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:13.480 So to say that. 128 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:15.920 There is a distinction or something like that, yeah, okay, 129 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.920 So what I don't see how you get to needing 130 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:20.959 anything more than energy. 131 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:25.959 Well, there's the information of the distinction between being in 132 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.040 this position and this time and being in this position 133 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:31.639 and time and going from one state to another. There's 134 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.679 information there, Okay, in those two states. That's information. 135 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.519 Okay, And what and what what is? What is your 136 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.120 point that there's information there? 137 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:41.960 I'm a little. 138 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:47.600 Confused for for energy to exist in different states to exist, 139 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:51.960 there's thermodynamically, there's information. 140 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.000 No, we don't need information is something that like we 141 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:59.720 consciously have in our brain. Right, something can change its 142 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.720 state from one physical state to another using energy and 143 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.360 we never have to know that. So what I don't 144 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:08.679 understand the information connection here. 145 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:13.320 Okay, there's information that's just conceptual information in the mind, 146 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:20.240 but there's also information like information properties like something's average 147 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.679 kinetic energy. 148 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:25.600 Or Yes, but you have to have them. Yeah, that's information. 149 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:29.080 Those are just those are those are descriptions of things, 150 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:30.159 and you have to. 151 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:32.519 Have a mind. You have to have a mind for that. 152 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:35.879 To in order to exactly you have a mind to 153 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:36.679 describe something. 154 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:39.480 So if you don't have a mind to observe it, 155 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.720 then then the information doesn't matter that you don't need 156 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.279 the information for that transformation to happen. 157 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:48.200 No, No, you would need a mind to perceive it 158 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:52.360 and then describe it. But the information of that still exists. 159 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:58.039 Like something happening exist without a mind, right, things exist 160 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:00.080 without a mind. But information is how we disc I 161 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.840 have those things because the difference you're you're confusing the 162 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.440 map for the territory. 163 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:12.879 No, the information like quantum information isn't that's not just perception. 164 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:17.799 Those those are states that can be entangled and give 165 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:19.000 distinction between. 166 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:19.879 All those things exist. 167 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:23.519 Yes, but in order for it to be information, right, 168 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:26.840 it needs to be perceived by mind. Otherwise it's just 169 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.000 the state of things and there's no description of it. Right, 170 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:33.200 it is right, just like the territory is. It doesn't 171 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:34.559 matter what the MOPS has. 172 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.960 No, there's the math implies an ontological distinction between states, 173 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:42.120 whether or not it doesn't. 174 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:46.120 No, you're you're I think you're donald, You're you're you're 175 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:52.000 confusing the fact that when something happens that that creates information, right, 176 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.039 But it's not creating information if there's nobody there to 177 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:57.200 perceive the. 178 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:58.559 Information, right. 179 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:00.519 I don't know how you're I don't know how you're 180 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:03.960 defining information if you if that's not something you agree to, 181 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.440 and if that's and if you are defining information differently, 182 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.519 I think I would love it if you would clarify 183 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:10.159 what you mean. 184 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:17.440 Okay, I'll repeat the definition I stated before. Information is 185 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.159 a structured distinction between possible states. 186 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:25.519 Okay, And how do we know that that's information without 187 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:26.279 presenting that? 188 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:28.600 Well, that also sounds like a description to me. 189 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:33.000 Yeah, right, that's that doesn't sound Yeah like I'm understood 190 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:36.200 that these states, right that you're describing, how are they 191 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:41.279 information without something to perceive the information? I mean, like 192 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:45.320 information is just our ore is us having the ability 193 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.559 to perceive the thing and and process it within our brain. 194 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:52.159 So when you say that that's information, you're you're describing 195 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:56.120 a state of things, but there's no information because there's 196 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:59.039 nothing nobody there to perceive that information. 197 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:00.840 Do you understand you know what I'm saying. 198 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:06.440 No? Not, This is okay. There is a difference between 199 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:10.600 conceptual information and quantum information. 200 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:15.120 I understand that, Donald, I understand that. But it's still 201 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:19.200 you still need a mind to perceive the information, whether 202 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.480 it's conceptual or not. If it's conceptual, then you need 203 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:27.600 a mind to conceive it, right, Yes, if the conceptual okay. 204 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:27.879 So there you go. 205 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:30.240 So if you have no mind to conceive it, there 206 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.080 is no information at all. 207 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:35.559 No, No, there's information in this without a perceiver. 208 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:36.559 Yeah. 209 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.679 So the problem is that you're redefining information in a 210 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.399 way that isn't actually useful, right, because you are still 211 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:45.360 attempting to say that there is a state of things, 212 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:49.600 and things and states change. I'm agreeing with that or 213 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:52.720 or we're disagreeing is with your is You're trying to 214 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.759 say that information is that change, and that is not 215 00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:59.600 the case, right, Because you're redefining information in a way 216 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:01.840 that is not useful because. 217 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.840 It's not if you want to taking this from physics. 218 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.080 Uh, information theory is a mathematical branch or probability and 219 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:12.360 statistics and studies the quantification, storage, and communication of information. 220 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:20.120 Let's see if there is an information information definition physics, 221 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.960 it's a measurable physical property of a system. Yes, that's 222 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:27.360 exactly what you're saying, and we're saying yes. But just 223 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:30.159 because just because there's a system and it can be measured, 224 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.159 there's no measurement. You can't measure it without a mind. 225 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.600 A mind has to measure it. Otherwise the system just is. 226 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:40.639 Yeah, it's something without somebody to measure and perceive it. 227 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:41.240 It just is. 228 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:42.240 It's not information. 229 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:45.159 It's like the way you're describing it, Donald, it sounds 230 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.480 like you're saying that we need to have the information 231 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:48.799 to make the change happen. 232 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:50.639 Yes, and that's what I'm saying. 233 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.519 There's a different and that's what and that's what Jim 234 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.120 and I are are fundamental that's what Jim and I 235 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:56.879 are fundamentally disagreeing with. 236 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:58.200 We don't think you're correct on. 237 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.480 That, Okay, I'm we don't. 238 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:03.080 Think the information necessary for energy to exist. 239 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:07.080 Yes, no mind is necessary for energy to change state exactly. 240 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:12.200 No, there is there is a distinction between states that. 241 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:16.679 Isn't just how was that distinction made? 242 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.120 Donald, Well, I was going to try to get into 243 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.879 that between the unactual lives actualizer and. 244 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:25.559 Then well, well just just just it's an easy just 245 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.120 how do you make that distinction that you're talking about? 246 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:30.960 Okay, Well, we use our perception to find it. 247 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:34.159 Okay, Okay, that's what we've been saying. Now you're now 248 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:37.120 that's exactly what Jim and I have been saying that 249 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.879 that But that didn't That didn't happen until you perceived it. 250 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.399 And I don't think your understanding is it's like it's 251 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:44.559 going right over your head. 252 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:44.759 Man. 253 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:48.919 I'm sorry, I understand, I know, I understand what you're saying. 254 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:50.879 This is going over your. 255 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:54.279 Head of No, I understand, I completely understand what you're saying. 256 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.120 I just disagree with it. 257 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.799 Is the distinction still exists on some fundamental level. 258 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:04.480 Yes, but the distinction isn't information. The distinction is just 259 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.399 two states of being and they don't become information until 260 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:10.960 somebody perceives them as information. 261 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.559 No, that makes them a thought, That doesn't make the 262 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.039 that that makes some conceptual information. 263 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.000 What do you think information is? Is an information? 264 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:25.200 Thoughts, that's conceptual information. That's not the information of charge 265 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:29.639 and kinetic energy and. 266 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.039 And those things aren't information. Those are charges in kinetic energy. 267 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:38.000 That's not information. You just describe them as what they 268 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.360 were not, you know. And then you were saying, well, 269 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:43.799 this is esthetic energy is I don't understand what you're where? 270 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.080 You're where you think kinetic energy is information? 271 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:51.960 Explain that become then how can they then become entangled 272 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:53.759 and pass and passed? 273 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:55.639 Yeah? 274 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:58.879 Yeah, they don't need they don't need to know what's 275 00:15:58.919 --> 00:15:59.879 happening to have that. 276 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.039 I didn't finish. 277 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:05.000 I didn't finish. All right, Okay, If they're able to 278 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:08.879 be entangled, and they're able to be transferred from one 279 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:15.440 particle to another without with uh, and they're able to 280 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.279 reach from a one position to another faster than the 281 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:23.159 speed of light, then they are materially transfer Then they 282 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.360 are transferring to something that isn't that isn't material. 283 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:29.840 Okay, energy is a material or do you mean it does? 284 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:30.639 It's not energy. 285 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.360 It's not just the energy, it's you're you're. 286 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:37.120 You're you're just taking that immatory material thing that you're 287 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.200 talking about and you're plugging the word information into it 288 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:44.320 without having a direct correlation, is what I'm seeing. Okay, Well, 289 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.679 it's like you're using information, the word information to describe 290 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:50.120 that when it doesn't really fit what you're describing. 291 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:52.879 Well, and that's why I think Jim and I are confused. 292 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.600 Fine, I can use a different word. Uh. But but 293 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:02.320 physicists use the word quantum information to describe this, So 294 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.000 it's not me doing it. 295 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.160 I'm not a physicist. I'm not a quantum physicist. So 296 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:08.519 you got to dumb it down for me. 297 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:11.119 Okay, well, then what do you want to call it? 298 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.200 I would rather have something that's more indicative of what 299 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.599 it's actually what it actually is. And to me, to 300 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.519 me that we've been talking about states of being, that 301 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.880 seems to be what we're doing. We're not talking about information. 302 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.799 We're just talking about states of being and those states changing. 303 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:30.599 I thought we had already kind of defined it already 304 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:32.319 without using the lot information. 305 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:37.559 But it's not energy. It's more fundamental than energy and masses. 306 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:40.319 How does a state change from one thing to another 307 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:41.400 thing without energy? 308 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:49.839 Okay, thermodynamic states require energy, but and okay, if you 309 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:55.759 have okay, but if you have entropy and you have 310 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.720 let's say a black. 311 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.799 Hole takes into measures of energy, a measure of the 312 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:03.039 energy of the state of energy. 313 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.039 Okay, it's been you. 314 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:06.119 Okay. 315 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:13.200 The early definitions of entropy were a description of usable energy, 316 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:19.000 but later but later descriptions like Shannon entropy and Noyman 317 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:26.039 entropy talk about the the information density impossible states. 318 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:27.880 Okay, so it's still energy. 319 00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:31.599 It's not. And there's a difference between the information of 320 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:33.319 possible states and energy. 321 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.160 It's what's the difference. 322 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:43.079 The difference is that there are all of these possible 323 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:48.200 there's all of these possibilities that are in that are 324 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:53.400 in like a wave function that that can that information 325 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:57.559 passes and shares between them. Energy is bound by the 326 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.960 speed of light. This information, uh, this what they call 327 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:06.079 quantum information. We haven't determined a different word for it 328 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:11.279 can be transferred through entanglement faster than the speed of light. 329 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.359 It's not bound. 330 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.279 So quantum mechanics isn't also energy. I mean, the quantum 331 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.559 aren't also energy. 332 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.640 Yeah, okay, but I'm wondering what it's like. You're saying 333 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.880 that these quanta, that this quantum movement isn't energy. 334 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:33.720 Okay, the force carrier particles do carry energy to carry 335 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.720 the carry information that changes the field, and the change 336 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.160 in the field is the energy. But the energy is 337 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.839 emergent of these particle interactions and all of these possibilities 338 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.039 in the wave function. The information in that is more 339 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:53.799 fundamental than the then the energy transfer, the energy transfer 340 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:56.680 is emergent from these interactions. 341 00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.079 We didn't say. 342 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.599 We didn't say that the energy transfer wasn't pertinent, you know, 343 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.559 but we're what we're saying is it has. 344 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.000 To be there. Okay. 345 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:08.839 I mean it's like you were describing this thing. You 346 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:12.200 were describing it as if there was no energy there. Well, 347 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.799 it doesn't matter if the energy is the pertinent thing there. 348 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.480 It's still there making the movement happen, right, making there 349 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:20.319 are that the state's changed. 350 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:25.759 There are some systems where information is only transferred, like 351 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:29.000 in a black hole. It absorbs all of this, all 352 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:30.359 of all of this matter. 353 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.440 I don't think we know the inside of the black hole, 354 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:32.759 do we. 355 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.599 No, no, no, I'm trying to get on the event horizon. 356 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:40.039 On the event horizon, the information is preserved on the 357 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.680 event horizon and it's entangled with the things in the 358 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:47.079 black hole. But the information has been separated from the 359 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:48.359 matter and the energy. 360 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:51.160 Okay, let me let me just ask this something more fundamental. 361 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.160 Is your unactualized actualizer natural or is it a mind? 362 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.400 Oh no, it's it's not a it's not a mind. 363 00:20:59.559 --> 00:20:59.880 I get. 364 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.000 I get from the unactualized the actualizer to Plotinus, is 365 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.920 the one and the one is not a mind because 366 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:12.079 consciousness is a change, is a changing process, and it 367 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:16.599 can I don't believe consciousness can occur before time and 368 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.039 the one being an unchanging thing. H I don't think 369 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:25.480 it can have it can be conscious because consciousness is 370 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:31.839 itself changing and the one is chang. Okay, it is okay, 371 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:38.359 the one, Okay. The unactualized actualizer is pure actuality. All 372 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:43.680 the things with potent parts, potential and actual emerge from it. 373 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:48.920 So it's it's it could, it could. It's pure actuality. 374 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:53.519 That is like an ontological ground that makes that makes 375 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.440 it to where all of these things with potential can happen. 376 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.079 It's it's like it's like the unity between things. It 377 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.319 makes it makes it to where measurement and distinction can exist. 378 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:08.759 But it's not like made. 379 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:14.400 Yeah, measurement and extension are require a change. And you're 380 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:16.759 saying that all changes in this thing. Therefore it's one 381 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:19.480 thing that doesn't make any sense either, right. 382 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:25.240 Okay, okay, it's it's okay. If you have a plant 383 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:30.599 and it grows out of the ground, it grew from 384 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:35.279 the ground and absorb orbs light and water and nutrients 385 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.720 from the ground. But it isn't But the ground itself 386 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:44.759 is not alive, but life is able to emerge from it. 387 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.279 It's it's like the set. 388 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:51.279 That contains all sets. It's it contains everything within it, 389 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:56.640 and it's omnipresent, and it's beyond time and space. But 390 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.359 but it's like it's like logic or maths. It's more 391 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.039 fundamental than logical masks. But it's think of it like that. 392 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:04.200 It's like it. 393 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.240 It has the rules from which everything can emerge from it, 394 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:13.319 just like a life emerging from the ground. It makes 395 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:16.039 life possible, but it itself is not alive. It has 396 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.400 living things growing from it and within it. 397 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.440 And how did you figure all this out? 398 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:23.680 Well, well, it's not me. I'm taking arguments from like 399 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:26.400 Plato and Blondness and Aristotle. 400 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.319 Well yeah, I think you're from Plato that involves physics 401 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:31.359 and quantum mechanics. 402 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.720 Well, I'm extending those ideas, and. 403 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.440 Right, that's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. That's 404 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.000 what I'm asking. Donald got You took this idea and 405 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:43.960 this idea and this idea and this idea, and you 406 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:47.000 mashed them all together. Right, But what makes you think 407 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.079 that when you matched all these things together that this 408 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:50.240 was correct? 409 00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:54.240 Well, I examined the premises from many philosophers. 410 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.960 Okay, I've done the same thing. I'm asking you what 411 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.960 made you think that you particularly were correct? 412 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:01.519 What is it that you know? 413 00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:04.359 I understand the process you talk, but what is it 414 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:08.000 in that process that made you figure it out? 415 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:10.440 What was the straw that broke the camel's back for you? 416 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:16.559 I used logic to try to figure out what premises 417 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:21.079 work and what premises don't work and don't contradict each other, 418 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:25.640 and what fits all the knowledge and inform and evidence 419 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:30.119 and information I know, with having the least assumptions possible, 420 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:34.759 and decided that this is the most probabilistically true thing. 421 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.599 So you just thought it up on your own, basically, 422 00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:42.720 well by a physicistist. 423 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:47.039 I have a bachelor's in physics and I'm working toward 424 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:50.359 or the PhD. But I mean, I've talked to other 425 00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:55.279 physicists about this, but they they usually come to the 426 00:24:55.319 --> 00:25:01.039 point where I'm talking. I'm talking about metaphysics and ontological things. 427 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.640 They which is beyond the realm of science because you 428 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:08.880 can't examine lots of the concepts I'm talking about empirically. 429 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:14.200 But a lot of them take the thing of oh well, 430 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:19.680 I they take materialism, but I don't think materialism describes everything. 431 00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:21.640 Most so you're just making stuff. 432 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.720 No I have I have no I know. 433 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.119 Don't hear me out for a minute. 434 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:29.240 I understand you've got a bunch of things that you 435 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:32.200 are using evidence, but you put it all together and 436 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.240 you made up what you believe right. 437 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.440 Now using logic. Yes, but that's no, I didn't know. 438 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:42.240 I just that's using your logic, yes, right, using your logic. 439 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:44.680 You took information that you found and you came up 440 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:48.440 with your own idea correct. 441 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.880 Uh, yes, but taking from. 442 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.960 Okay, now, how do you know that your idea, especially 443 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.640 about metaphysics, How do you know that this is true? 444 00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.960 I don't know for sure. I just think if fits 445 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.920 all the evidence with as little assumptions as possible. 446 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.319 I don't have a Do you have a do you 447 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.279 have a formal metaphysical have you made a formal metaphysical 448 00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.119 argument out of your thoughts and ideas? 449 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.680 Yes, I have a formal metaphysical argument. 450 00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:16.359 Okay. 451 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:18.480 I was reading off of a script I had wrote 452 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.519 in prepared for the show. But I haven't published a 453 00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:22.960 book or a paper on it. 454 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.880 It hasn't been here, Retten. Yeah, I didn't ask that. 455 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.359 I asked if you'd actually put this into a formal argument. 456 00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:31.039 All right, So it's your first premise, okay. 457 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:37.519 My first premise was that there is actuality that uh, 458 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:43.039 that's something exists and beyond beyond skepticism. 459 00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:50.920 The information beyond skepticism even means yeah, I don't either. Okay, 460 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.880 You've got beyond which indicates some sort of property being 461 00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:57.200 beyond something that is a concept called skepticism or a 462 00:26:57.240 --> 00:26:58.559 process or whatever you want to say. 463 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:01.599 It beyond skepticism makes no sense. Okay. 464 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:06.839 Well I'm I'm saying, if you doubt something existing, I 465 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.200 think there is one thing that is beyond any doubt 466 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:14.000 of existing, because any attempt to doubt it, for pre 467 00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:19.359 presupposes that it exists. The idea, the information that exists. 468 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:23.400 There's no If you doubt something, there's no presupposition, then 469 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:25.200 you doubt exists. 470 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.519 You're doubting is false. 471 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:32.519 I doubt Does that mean it? Does? 472 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.119 I doubt you're made of chocolate? Are you actually made 473 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.759 of chocolate? Do we have an actual chocolate statue talking 474 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:39.599 to us? Because I doubt you're made of chocolate? 475 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.279 Thank you for taking that to the total absurd term. 476 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.000 I appreciate that. That's awesome. 477 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.400 No, no, no, no no. If you what I'm saying 478 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:51.160 is if you doubt the the that the distinction that 479 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:55.000 between existence and non existence, you say, oh, I doubt 480 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.960 that you're you're saying I think that's not true. But 481 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:01.400 thinking that's not true, who relies on the. 482 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:05.160 Assumption I know? 483 00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:07.359 So you forget you forget that. 484 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.440 In philosophy, there while it is true that any proposition 485 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:14.720 is either true or false, there are three positions you 486 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.400 can take. You can accept the proposition is true, you 487 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:21.799 can reject it as false. And you can also say 488 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:24.440 I don't know. If I say I don't know, I 489 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:28.240 have not taken a position on a proposition being true 490 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:28.759 or false. 491 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.480 Okay, but fine, But if you're saying you don't know, 492 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.240 doubt arguments. 493 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:36.559 Only if I say it. 494 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:39.559 Only if I say the proposition is false, or if 495 00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:41.160 I say the proposition is true. 496 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:43.759 Do I need to provide argument for either of these things? 497 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.400 If I say I don't know, I'm asking for an 498 00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:50.160 argument to or evidence to prove that something is true 499 00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:53.599 or false, to prove that the proposition is true or false. 500 00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:55.519 I can doubt all I want. 501 00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:59.039 Yes, you can be like, I don't know, but fine, 502 00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:03.640 then you have him brought a counter argument to. 503 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.799 I don't need a counter argument I'm not making. I'm 504 00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:09.839 not making a clam I'm not claiming the proposition is true. 505 00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:13.200 I'm not claiming the proposition is false. Only when I 506 00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:16.200 make either of those claims, do I actually have to 507 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:17.160 provide an argument? 508 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:22.400 Okay, Well, then then I would say there's no there's 509 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.319 no way to bring a counter I haven't. I don't 510 00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:29.119 see a way to bring a counter argument against what 511 00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:31.279 policy is that it doesn't contradict itself? 512 00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.519 And what policy is that? Hey, you can't think of one. 513 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.680 Okay, it's only a fallacy if I'm saying that proves 514 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:44.799 it that doesn't I could I couuld be. It could 515 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:47.519 be beyond my perception, and I'm not able to see that. 516 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:50.400 I'm not saying this is one hundred percent certainty. But 517 00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:53.480 I've said, it's beyond skepticism. 518 00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:57.039 But sane, I don't know peven that man has no meaning, 519 00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.079 that that literally has no meaning. 520 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:02.720 No, those two words together don't mean anything. 521 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:03.720 It's not. 522 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.960 You're going to say, I don't because I can. 523 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.000 Take the client. I can take the stand that I 524 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:13.720 don't know. Right, that's not beyond skepticism. 525 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.200 Oh but you're not. Really, you're not presenting a counter argument. 526 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:19.240 I don't have to. 527 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:20.759 I don't have to. 528 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:23.839 I've got a Let's say I got a thing full 529 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:28.079 of pens here. You know what, if I say I 530 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.160 don't know if they're odd or even, does that mean 531 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.599 they're odder or are they even? Have I made a 532 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:35.240 claim to whether they're even? There's an odd or even 533 00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:36.880 number of pens in my pen? 534 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:37.240 Cut? 535 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:39.200 Have I made a claim as to that? If I 536 00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:42.160 say I don't know if it's odd or even, which claim? 537 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:45.759 If I meant you haven't made a claim, You're right. 538 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:49.799 That's my point exactly. 539 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:53.680 So there's no such thing as beyond skepticism, because in 540 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.759 order for that to happen, that means that you have 541 00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:59.759 to make a claim about a proposition, either claim that 542 00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:01.279 it is true or that it is false, and you 543 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.960 don't have to. You can simply say I'm waiting further information. 544 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:09.880 Okay, but or are you Are you equating skepticism with cynicism? 545 00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:15.279 Okay, fine, I get I think I was equating skepticism 546 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.960 with cynicism because saying I don't know is skepticism. 547 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:25.359 But yeah, waiting for evidence before making a decision is 548 00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:26.400 also skepticism. 549 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.000 I really want to understand you, Donald, I really do, 550 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:32.640 but I'm not sure that you have the language that 551 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:34.319 you need to communicate it. 552 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:35.920 In a viable way. 553 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.039 And it's just not it's not just Jemini that don't understand. 554 00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.200 I'm looking at the people in the text chat. Nobody 555 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.000 really understands what you're trying to get at. Nobody's really 556 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.839 sure what your point has been through this whole a whole. 557 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:50.680 Argument in a whole script, and it doesn't make sense 558 00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:52.680 if you cut off like near the beginning. 559 00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:56.079 Yeah, but we asked, we asked you for premise one, 560 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.759 and your premise one makes no sense and has nothing 561 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:01.640 nothing to agree. 562 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:02.880 It says nothing. 563 00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:05.119 And we're not going to sit here while you read 564 00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:06.759 your script for twenty minutes either. 565 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:08.319 That's just not going to en No. 566 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.839 I mean and premise so we don't even so we 567 00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.880 don't even have to go past promise one because it 568 00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:16.920 makes no sense. I wing to rejected premise one is nonsensical, 569 00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.480 and the rest of the argument follows, right, because your 570 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.000 argument depends on premise one, just like it depends on 571 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.400 all your other premises to get to your conclusion. Right, Okay, 572 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.720 we've rejected premise one is being nonsensical, so why would 573 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:29.960 we accept your conclusion? 574 00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:37.519 Okay, fine, going back to premise one. Okay, you're able 575 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:42.160 to say, I don't know, but we're but I'm trying 576 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:48.359 to figure out a base like how a native car goes. 577 00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:50.799 I think therefore, I am. I'm trying to make a 578 00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:56.119 more foundational base for which you can from which you 579 00:32:56.119 --> 00:33:00.480 can build things off of. And if you are not 580 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:04.599 able to provide a counter argument, well I can. Well 581 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.119 there can be made a counter argument for pretty much 582 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:11.240 every other base. I would argue that this base is 583 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:12.839 better than the other ones. 584 00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:15.599 Okay, you're gonna make You're gonna make that argument, make 585 00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:17.920 the argument. Give me your first premise for that argument. 586 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:23.839 Okay, Okay, I but I okay, this. 587 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:27.240 Will make an argument. You're no longer in science, You're 588 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:28.119 in philosophy. 589 00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.480 When you're talking about metaphysics and things like that, you 590 00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:33.480 are also in philosophy. I don't think you've got the 591 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:38.240 philosophical grounding, given how bad your first premise is that 592 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.880 you gave us is to actually do this. 593 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.599 Okay, I don't. I don't that. 594 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:48.000 I'm still not sure what the first premise was. 595 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:55.240 Okay, the first premise is the information that existence exists. 596 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:03.440 Is can be given a counter argument too, because you know, 597 00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:09.360 because in trying to say that's false assumes distinction between 598 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:13.960 true and false and assumes there is a distinction. 599 00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:14.639 No way, don't know. 600 00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:18.079 I don't agree with that, And Jim, that's not something 601 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:19.480 we can agree with because that's. 602 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.639 Because there's a there's a third position. The default position 603 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:28.719 is I don't know. It's I am right, or we 604 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:31.960 agree with the proposition that there's either existence or non existence. 605 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.800 We agree with that, right, those those two things are true. 606 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.199 Now I exist, so I'll beg the claim that because 607 00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:41.559 I exist, there is something that exists. 608 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:43.400 Yes, that's what I'm saying. 609 00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:46.719 What right? And so what something exists? 610 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:52.159 So what? Okay, that's the first premise that something exist. 611 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.159 Okay, you could have just said that it would have 612 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:55.599 made a little bit. This is true. 613 00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:59.400 Yeah, okay, okay, okay. 614 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:05.800 Number one the things number one? Things exist? What's number two? 615 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.519 Now if I say existence is true, that's different from 616 00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:10.920 saying exists. 617 00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:12.960 The information of existence exists. 618 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.880 Those are two separate things. Because now you're gaining the abstract. 619 00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.719 Which one, which one is your which one is your friend? 620 00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:23.880 Yeah, that's what I thought too, and you even agreed 621 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:27.000 to that. So what actually is your first premise? And 622 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:29.639 can you please put it down the one simple sentence 623 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.840 act like Jimini are five year olds. 624 00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:38.760 The information that existence exists exists. 625 00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:42.119 So information exists? Is that? Which is that it? And 626 00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:43.440 information exists? 627 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.760 Or are you saying that because because information Because what 628 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:51.599 it sounds like you said was because information exists, it exists, 629 00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:53.239 which is atality. 630 00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:58.880 I said existence, the information of existence exists. And in 631 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:03.960 this information is a structured distinction between possible states. 632 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:05.960 That you're just added stuff on that you didn't have 633 00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:07.599 on there, but you're just added a whole bunch of 634 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.119 other stuff that wasn't there before. 635 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:12.039 I have to use language, and I have to define 636 00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:12.519 my time. 637 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:13.840 I get it. 638 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.920 I get it, Donald, I understand you need to use language, 639 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.119 but we've Jim and I have asked you for your 640 00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.800 first premise like six times, and every time you have 641 00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.599 given us a different thing. 642 00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:29.199 So we don't know what that existence exists. 643 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.760 Okay, information that exists exists. That's a toutology. 644 00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:34.039 No no, no, no, no no no no no no. 645 00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:39.840 The information of exist. 646 00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:42.960 Exists, okay, information of exist? 647 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:47.199 Yeah, information that things exist exists, do not. You're at 648 00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:50.320 anything topology. You see how bad you're doing at this 649 00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:51.039 first premise. 650 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:53.679 I don't think you're I think you need to get 651 00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:55.360 better at the communication part. 652 00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:57.280 I think you need to get better at your at 653 00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:01.760 your definition too, because if you define information in a 654 00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:04.679 way that that physicists define it a measurable property or 655 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:09.280 a measurable physical property of a system, right, then then 656 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:15.599 you're saying that a measurable physical property of a system exists. Okay. 657 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:22.000 No, that that's another that's another layer of measurement. That's 658 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:24.400 that that's not as fundamental as this. 659 00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:30.719 A measurable physical property is not fundamental because you. 660 00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.760 Can have information that isn't measurable. There is truth that 661 00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:38.360 is that can be beyond the ability to test and 662 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:39.639 observe and falsify. 663 00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:41.719 I'm not sure there's a claim. 664 00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.159 I'm not sure how to measure information to begin with. 665 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.239 You can measure the veracity of information, but how do 666 00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:49.599 you measure information? 667 00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.960 Yeah, now you just made an even bigger claim that 668 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:58.320 makes absolutely no sense, because I mean information is the 669 00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:02.840 measurement this. I think you've got a problem with your definition, 670 00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.840 and I think you don't have enough philosophy background because 671 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.639 I am not, by any means a philosopher, and we 672 00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:14.159 can't get past your your first premise and figure out 673 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:16.480 what the heck you even mean by it, because it 674 00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:20.239 doesn't seem to mean anything. You're redefining information in a 675 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:25.960 way that makes absolutely zero sense, and so I think 676 00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:28.760 that's where you need to start. But this is this 677 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.360 is just I think as a fundamental probably not understanding philosophy, 678 00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:35.039 much less any type of metaphysics. 679 00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:41.119 I have many a lot of metaphysics and I have. 680 00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:44.159 I don't know why you're so bad at this, Yeah, right, 681 00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:46.920 I don't understand why you're so bad at it, right, 682 00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:48.440 And that's that's my point. 683 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:50.480 You're bad at it. I think rather than read, you 684 00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:51.159 may need to go. 685 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.639 And run some of this through a philosophy you know, 686 00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:57.320 get a physics professor, Get someone who's got at least 687 00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.840 a PhD a quantum physics and a pH stein philosophy, 688 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.880 and how and run this by them and see if 689 00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:03.880 it makes sense to them. 690 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:07.079 I think I think they will. I think they will 691 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:07.920 buzz saw. 692 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.039 You into in and non existence on this because this 693 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:11.119 makes zero sense. 694 00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:14.800 Okay, well, it could just happen I'm bad at explaining, 695 00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:16.840 or you don't understand what I'm saying. 696 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.119 I mean, well, so the problem is that in communication, 697 00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:24.960 the sender is responsible for making sure they're understoody okay, Well. 698 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.719 Like I like, I'll often go to like a classroom 699 00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:32.679 of third or fourth graders, and I'll explain geological concepts 700 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:36.039 to them so that they can understand it. Right, you know, 701 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.840 I could understand. I could teach them about plate tectonics 702 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.639 and and different types of erosion, right, and they're they're 703 00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:45.559 pretty pretty intense concepts, but I can explain it to 704 00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:47.480 a five year old. And I think that's when of 705 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.320 the problems we're having is they're not You're not able 706 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:54.159 to vocalize the concept that you're thinking of in a 707 00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:57.880 way that's understandable by others, at least by us and 708 00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:59.440 the people who are watching the show. 709 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:05.400 Okay, Okay, let me try it a different way. 710 00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:11.719 Okay, you're familiar with the term I think, therefore I 711 00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:21.840 am right. But yes, okay, phrase okay, in that he's assuming, Uh, 712 00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:27.360 he's assuming things about what I what I is, and 713 00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:32.639 he's assuming and things about about his memory being accurate 714 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:36.960 of remembering his thoughts and uh, and he's assuming thought 715 00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:42.199 and he's assuming thought. If you strip away memory, you 716 00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:46.400 strip away time, you strip away the concept of I, 717 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:53.039 you get down to uh, you get down to uh, 718 00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:58.519 there's exists and there's not exist. Even when even when 719 00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:02.280 trying to think about it, strip away even the concept 720 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:06.280 of thought and you memory in your memorizing thought. There 721 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:12.440 is a distinction of exists versus non exist. There is 722 00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:14.039 the information. 723 00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:16.719 Of exist, the information of exist. 724 00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:20.039 I don't think that that that that's what we're that's 725 00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.119 what we're having a fundamental problem when you say the 726 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:28.760 information of exist. That makes absolutely no fucking sense to us. 727 00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:32.119 Okay, there is a distinction between exists and non exists, 728 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:33.239 that distinction. 729 00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:36.559 Yeah, we did that, but we're trying to Yes, we're 730 00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:39.400 trying to explain to you that when you say information 731 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.480 and you put it in that slot, that's the part 732 00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.199 that's not making sense. What you said up until that 733 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:46.599 point totally made sense. 734 00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:51.880 Okay, Well, fine, I won't say information. I'll say the structure, 735 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.880 the distinction between exists and non exists exists. 736 00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:57.800 That's a tautology, I agree. 737 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:02.159 Yeah, that you're eximply saying is either true or not true. 738 00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:07.039 Okay, yeah, yeah, things, Yeah, things are aren't Okay, we 739 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:07.599 all know that. 740 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:08.159 Yeah. 741 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:10.159 That's like that's like. 742 00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.480 The first law of logic, right, the law of identity, 743 00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:17.400 basically just in different words. Okay, okay, okay, So that's 744 00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:19.239 your first premise, the law of identity. 745 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:24.480 Yeah, first promise the law of identity is true. Okay, Well, 746 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.159 we kind of assume that, but you know, it's. 747 00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:30.320 Okay, there's there's a difference between this and the law 748 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:30.960 of identity. 749 00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:37.199 Okay, there is because if I remember the law of 750 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:42.079 I do a lot of identity is is a non contradiction? 751 00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.480 Is A or not a? So yeah, it's it's the 752 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:47.199 law of non contradiction. We have the wrong law. 753 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:51.000 The law of non contradiction is true. Yes, we assume, yes, 754 00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.960 that the laws of lot. When we're making philosophical arguments 755 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.519 like you're attempting to do, we assume that laws of 756 00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:58.199 logic apply. 757 00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:00.719 So okay, so what Okay, I. 758 00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:05.039 Want to be clear. The law of identity isn't always true, 759 00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:08.280 like not all of these laws are always true, but the. 760 00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:14.400 Law when is the law of identity not true? Okay? 761 00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:18.719 Well, if someone says an apple is an apple, you 762 00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:22.039 they're they have a concept of an apple. But those 763 00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:24.559 two apples aren't identical. 764 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:25.480 Two apples we're talking. 765 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:28.079 You're talking about one apple, but you're also talking about 766 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.800 the physical thing that is an apple that has physical 767 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.559 properties and the person's concept of an apple. 768 00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:36.320 And you are correct, the person's concept of that apple 769 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:37.679 is not the apple. 770 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:42.239 Like I have been saying, you have been confusing the 771 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:46.360 map for the territory. The map is the person's concept 772 00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:49.440 of an apple. Yes, you are correct. There is the 773 00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:51.039 difference between those two things. 774 00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:51.719 Yes. 775 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:55.039 And when people use the law of identity to take 776 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:59.519 a concept and it's a it's a it's an abstruction. 777 00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:05.400 You're talking about two different a's, right, A prime the 778 00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:09.159 apple itself A second. Yeah, that is the thought. Those 779 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:10.880 are two different a's. They are not the same thing. 780 00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:12.719 You have an A. You have an A and the 781 00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:15.360 B and A is not equal B. They're not the 782 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:20.000 same thing. We've already agreed that the apple, the physical apple, 783 00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:22.800 is a different thing than the conception, the concept of 784 00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:25.239 the apple that is in someone's head. Those are not 785 00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:28.360 both a's They can't because they're two different things. 786 00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:36.079 Okay, but okay, well this is game tangential to the argument. 787 00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.079 But no, it's not. It's fundamental to the argument. Yeah, 788 00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:39.760 it totally is. 789 00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:42.320 And I think that's what we're having a problem is 790 00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:44.039 that you don't understand that, babe. 791 00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:46.559 Okay, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. 792 00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:49.480 I'm not sure, Donald, I'm not sure you have this 793 00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:52.400 whole argument fully put together, step to step to step 794 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.239 to step. And it might be just because you're communicating 795 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:59.119 it badly, but it doesn't. It just doesn't seem like it. Okay, 796 00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:02.440 I'm not saying you have a bad argument. I'm just 797 00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.679 saying the way you're communicating isn't working out, man, because 798 00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:08.480 I because I honestly I really don't understand what it 799 00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:09.760 is you're trying to communicate. 800 00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:16.320 Well, I was going, I was going from things have 801 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:21.639 potentials and then they're actualized, and I was trying to 802 00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:29.159 get to an argument to uh, giving to try to 803 00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:34.480 to try to establish the unactualized actualizer. 804 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.079 Right, and we can't get past promise one. Yeah, so 805 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:39.159 how yeah, we can't get that get there unless we 806 00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:39.599 get passed. 807 00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:41.960 You just agree to You just agreed to it as 808 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.480 a You just. 809 00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.440 Agree You said that, wasn't it when we when we 810 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:48.280 said that the concept of the apple is B and 811 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:51.440 the apple itself is A, and those two things are 812 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:52.280 not the same thing. 813 00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:58.079 You said, no, No, okay, I am agreeing to the 814 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:01.800 law of non contradiction. But I was some people if 815 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:06.599 you do the law of identity outside of mathematics, there's 816 00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:11.360 not there's not a perfect A and this. 817 00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:13.960 A because you doesn't need to be able to tru one. 818 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.000 We're not saying there is. 819 00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:18.159 Yeah, it was going there as a concept of an apple, 820 00:46:18.199 --> 00:46:20.639 those are A N B, not A and A. 821 00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:21.320 I'm trying. 822 00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:26.519 I'm trying to say the law of identity is is 823 00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:30.880 an approximate law. It's an abstract in mathematics to to 824 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:33.639 where we limit, to where we eliminate. 825 00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:35.440 Hown't demonstrated that fact at all. 826 00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:40.360 Yeah, right, because you continually confuse the map for the territory. 827 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:43.199 The map is a thing, the territory is another thing, 828 00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:44.239 and they are not the same. 829 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:44.519 Thing. 830 00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:48.079 Therefore, the law of identity still holds. You haven't demonstrated 831 00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:51.760 that the law of identity doesn't hold because you're confusing 832 00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:54.119 two things that are distinct. 833 00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:58.280 The map and the territory are distinct. Okay, do you. 834 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:00.960 Understand what Jim means by the map and that map 835 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:02.000 is not the territory. 836 00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:07.599 Yes, your your perception and thoughts and conception of reality 837 00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:12.000 isn't the same thing as reality. The right's phenomena and 838 00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:12.800 there's numena. 839 00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:17.000 I understand different and they're not the same thing. 840 00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:20.400 So you by by saying that you haven't proven that 841 00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:22.199 the law of identity is not always true. 842 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:25.639 Okay, because. 843 00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:36.360 Okay, okay. The simple syllogism uh starts with the proposition 844 00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:39.960 that A is equal to A. This postulate is accepted 845 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.880 as an axiom and but but in reality, outside of mathematics, 846 00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.079 outside of our conception in the in a. 847 00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:55.360 Is well, Kenny, wait a minute before we go any further, Donald, 848 00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:58.599 why do we need mathematics to see that A equals A? 849 00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:00.920 Why do we need mathematics to see the two things 850 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:01.719 are the same. 851 00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:04.559 So we can do things like algebra? 852 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:07.119 And why do we why do we need to do 853 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.039 algebra between two things that are the same. I don't 854 00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:13.760 understand why you're putting mathematics into this. A equals a 855 00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:17.360 what it's It's like you're complicating it by adding something 856 00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:17.760 into it. 857 00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.159 Just dude, the thing is the thing. 858 00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:23.679 Well, actually that mathematics needs to work. 859 00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:28.920 That's fine, that's fine, that's fine. Mathematics needs that, right, 860 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.480 But it doesn't need the mathematics. That's what I'm trying 861 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:32.920 to say. 862 00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.599 Is it ever possible for this pen ever be not 863 00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:40.639 this or for this pen do not be itself? Not 864 00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.159 the concept of the pen, the pen, the physical pen itself. 865 00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:44.559 Is it possible for that to happen? 866 00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:48.199 Okay? 867 00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:52.039 If it depends on how you're defining the pen, because 868 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.320 a part of the pen could be replaced, And then 869 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:55.360 is that the same pen? 870 00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:57.440 We're not getting into the ship of theseus? 871 00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:00.000 We're not doing the ship of theseus? Is it okay? 872 00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:01.559 And kill doing that? 873 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:07.440 That's a whole different thing. This pen as it exists 874 00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.599 right now, with this amount of ink in it, Can 875 00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:12.039 it ever not be this thing? 876 00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.480 It changes when it loses ink, yes. 877 00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:17.000 But it's still this thing. 878 00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:17.840 No. 879 00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:19.679 But we could say that, we could say that that 880 00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:23.039 it has a state of the is full of ink 881 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:25.239 and when say it has a state of not full 882 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:25.559 of ink. 883 00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:30.639 Yeah, but fundamentally that connect, that connection you're making, that 884 00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:33.920 link is that's. 885 00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:37.760 A property of the pen. That can change. Is the 886 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:38.679 property of the pen. 887 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:42.519 The pen you're making an abstraction of a pen. The 888 00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:46.519 idea of the pen itself isn't the most fundamental thing. 889 00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:50.960 It is an abstraction, an abstraction the thing and. 890 00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:53.079 Is not themental thing we're talking about. 891 00:49:54.840 --> 00:50:03.360 Ah, I'm I'm saying it's how it depends on how 892 00:50:03.400 --> 00:50:06.840 you're defining the pen, because there are. 893 00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.280 Depend right here is what I see, what I feel, 894 00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:12.239 this whole thing, all the properties of this pen or 895 00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:13.280 the pen we're talking about. 896 00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:14.800 That's how I'm defining this. 897 00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:21.559 Okay, well, then yes, the pen can change because the 898 00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.280 pen can change states, or your senses of the pen 899 00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.119 can change. 900 00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:27.360 Right. Is it still the same pen? 901 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.280 I okay, there's still the. 902 00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:37.599 If this pen is if I write until there's no 903 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.800 more incoing this pen? 904 00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:41.920 Is that a different pen? Or is it the same pen. 905 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.000 In some sense of the word. Yes, it is a 906 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:50.000 different it's different. It's not the same. It has changed. 907 00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:52.679 State right if? Right? 908 00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:55.800 And that's the problem that is a problem. Right, but 909 00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:58.320 it is still the same pen, right. 910 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:03.840 There is a there is It came from the previous pen, 911 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.000 and there is a and you have a unifying concept 912 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:10.760 between the previous pen and this pen. So some things 913 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:13.119 did stay the same and some things changed. 914 00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:17.840 Okay, do those properties mean as the thing they're describing 915 00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:19.519 is different, is a different thing? 916 00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.400 Yes, there, it is a different thing on some level. 917 00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:24.639 There's parts that changed. 918 00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:27.840 So it's a every time a property on this pen changes. 919 00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:30.360 Every time I write with this pen, it becomes a 920 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:31.960 different pen than the one I'm holding. 921 00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:32.760 How does that happen? 922 00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:40.639 It's changing its state and it's in it branches and 923 00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:44.159 becomes the other pen through the action. But some of 924 00:51:44.199 --> 00:51:49.519 its potential potential becomes became actual and it changes and 925 00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:52.320 some of the ink went from the pin onto the paper. 926 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:56.159 And you, yes, I'm agreeing with that. I don't like 927 00:51:56.239 --> 00:51:59.320 that was my description, right, you haven't answered the question. 928 00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:00.920 You would just read stated my description. 929 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:04.840 Well, you're asking how it happens? Do you want me to. 930 00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:08.719 Describe how does this become a different pen when I 931 00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:09.320 write with it? 932 00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:14.840 Okay? The point on the pen interacts with the paper 933 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:17.760 and releases some of the ink and some. 934 00:52:18.039 --> 00:52:20.000 There are all properties of writing, and there are all 935 00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:23.039 properties of the pen. Yes, you asked me how did 936 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:26.119 it describe? How how does it write? And you basically 937 00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:29.039 described the process of writing. What you haven't described is 938 00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:30.440 how this becomes a different pen. 939 00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:36.239 It lost some of its atoms and it has a 940 00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:41.320 slightly different property some of it. It became different, it changed. 941 00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:43.679 Okay, but that doesn't mean it's a new pen. 942 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:49.400 You Your abstract concept of the pen and it being 943 00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:55.679 the same thing is is an approximation. It's it's it's perception. 944 00:52:55.960 --> 00:52:56.920 It's I'm not talking. 945 00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:59.320 I'm not talking about my perception of the pen. Talking 946 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:01.440 about the pen it's off and what it's actually doing, 947 00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:04.559 not my concept of it. 948 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:09.960 It's the concept, No, not itself is the pen? 949 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:11.000 You are. 950 00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:16.039 The concept comes from a brain. The concept doesn't come 951 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:18.719 from the pen. The concept comes from a brain. You 952 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:20.840 ever see that painting that's a pipe and it says 953 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:22.320 this is not a pipe in French? 954 00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:28.920 You should go look at it for a while. Yeah, 955 00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:30.559 it's a fun one. 956 00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:35.000 Yeah, we're trying to make something of illusions. 957 00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:35.280 Right. 958 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:38.880 This is the fundamental problem that I think you're having 959 00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:42.199 is I don't think you under you're you're trying to 960 00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:47.400 make the first law of logic not be true. And 961 00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:50.599 I think the other fundamental problem is is what is 962 00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:55.760 the identity right the ship of theseus? And is this 963 00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:59.679 problem is why? I really, I mean, it's still the 964 00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:02.519 ship of theseus. And I can give you a better example, 965 00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:05.840 just because I'm a software engineer. When we want to 966 00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:08.880 define what a record is, we use a field that 967 00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:11.519 has absolutely nothing to do with the record, and if 968 00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:13.519 that field is different, it is a different object and 969 00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.840 have the exact same properties. But if that id field 970 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:19.559 is different, few different objects. But if you're the same, 971 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:21.920 the alls they've done is change state, and we need 972 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:22.840 to track that state. 973 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:24.960 But that doesn't mean it's a different thing. And this 974 00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:25.840 is the problem. 975 00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:29.599 Right, the pen can lose ink, it's still the pen 976 00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:33.480 is It's a property that doesn't make it unique or different. 977 00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:40.679 Okay, you can define the atoms taking that form in 978 00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:44.320 it having the utility of writing to still be a pen. 979 00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:48.320 But again I'm saying that that is an abstraction. It's 980 00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:51.599 a useful abstraction, which is close to the truth, but 981 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:53.199 it's not fundamentally. 982 00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:56.440 Fully, you're saying that this pen has stopped being a pen, 983 00:54:56.519 --> 00:54:59.519 and I have a new different pen when I drive ink. 984 00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:02.360 And this is an actual, real thing that we're talking about. 985 00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:04.639 We're not talking about the concept of it. We're talking 986 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:07.199 about the real thing. And my question is is how 987 00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:10.400 does this become a different pen in my hand than 988 00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:11.679 the one that I have in my hand. 989 00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:13.320 If just the ink goes out. 990 00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:18.119 It still is a pen. It's still can uh, it 991 00:55:18.199 --> 00:55:20.840 still has ink and you can still right with it, 992 00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:22.400 and it still the pen. 993 00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:26.159 Yes, but you're saying it's not still the pen when 994 00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:29.719 ink comes out of it. 995 00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:35.639 It has changed. It has lost some atoms, so I 996 00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:41.280 so it's not exactly the same. It is largely the same. 997 00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:42.559 It's mostly the same. 998 00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:50.239 But but it's not. I'm not they're not equal. They aren't. 999 00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:53.440 They're approximately equal, but they're not equal. 1000 00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:57.119 We're still talking about the pen, right, Yes, we're still 1001 00:55:57.159 --> 00:55:58.000 talking about. 1002 00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.880 The physical object at some of its atoms. 1003 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:03.159 So it's not exactly the same physical object. 1004 00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:08.800 It's how is it not the same physical object. 1005 00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:12.000 Because it lost some of its matter, it changed, It's 1006 00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:14.039 not all of the atoms are in the same place 1007 00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:14.639 that it was. 1008 00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:18.000 Okay, doesn't mean it's a different pen. 1009 00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:23.440 The pen from before became that pen. 1010 00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:26.480 I agree, doesn't mean it's a different pen, and that's 1011 00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:28.280 what you've got. That's what you're trying to prove right now. 1012 00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:32.079 And you can't really do that with this, right because 1013 00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:34.239 there are some properties of things that can change. And 1014 00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:36.440 it doesn't mean that the thing has stopped being the thing. 1015 00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:39.760 No, you still have the conception of it as being 1016 00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:43.440 the pen. But that conception that abstraction is fundamental. 1017 00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.719 You haven't proven that the pen becomes a different pen 1018 00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:50.360 just because some of its properties change, especially properties that 1019 00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:55.679 are designed to change. Right anyway, this is just we're 1020 00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:59.400 going over the same ground. Please, God, you some more 1021 00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:01.239 study of flow so we try and get your first 1022 00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:02.480 promise at least makes sense. 1023 00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:08.559 It would be nice. This has been a little bit 1024 00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:09.960 of fun, all right. 1025 00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:16.119 I think there was just a fundamental problem with communication there. 1026 00:57:16.599 --> 00:57:16.840 Yeah. 1027 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:19.039 I didn't want to do the Ship of Thesius. We 1028 00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:21.679 ended up doing it anyway, Although I think the ship 1029 00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:24.519 of Theseus is slightly different because that's replacing every part. 1030 00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:30.039 Is it still the same ship? And the answer is this, 1031 00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:32.760 we actually have a real ship like that right now? 1032 00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:37.119 M uss constitution, Yeah. 1033 00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:42.960 Right, some properties are are are supposed to change. Does 1034 00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:45.000 it mean it' stop being a thing. I think the 1035 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:49.639 more fun one than theis is the statue. Bronze statue, David, 1036 00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.440 when you melt the statue down, I go from that. 1037 00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:54.639 I think that that that is still a equals a. 1038 00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:59.119 The problem is that we are describing the same blob 1039 00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:01.480 of bronze in. 1040 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:08.079 Just two different states, two different that's the And if 1041 00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:10.920 you had more bronze, you still have it. Blaba bronze, 1042 00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:17.119 take less, you still have. Size can change. It's veryable anyway, 1043 00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:18.159 life gus On. 1044 00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:21.119 Yeah, did we do all of our announcements? I don't remember. 1045 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:23.239 Oh, we do have announcements. I have not done any 1046 00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:23.480 of those. 1047 00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:26.039 I honestly didn't remember. I'm not trying to remind you. 1048 00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:31.519 I completely forgot. I'm on my shirt show today, so 1049 00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:34.760 I'm kind of lost. I would like to do that. 1050 00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:37.159 I've done three shows a day before. That's always fun. 1051 00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:40.440 Yeah, turns your brain damash, but you can do it 1052 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:41.360 all right. 1053 00:58:41.559 --> 00:58:42.559 So some announcements. 1054 00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:45.280 We're excited to announce the launch of our twenty twenty 1055 00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:50.280 six back crews August fifteenth at seven pm next weekend. 1056 00:58:50.599 --> 00:58:53.639 Tickets are on sale now and yeah, they are going fast. 1057 00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:58.039 Get yours before they're all sold out. Going to be 1058 00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.280 exciting events all weekend, so you don't just need to 1059 00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:01.800 show up for the bat Cruise. You can show up 1060 00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:04.639 on Friday where there's going to be a special guest lecture. 1061 00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.440 Uh there's a community outing and activity during the day 1062 00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:12.360 on Saturday, followed by our annual members town Hall and 1063 00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:16.320 then your favorite ACA shows film live from the three 1064 00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:19.440 Free Thought Library is about to say three Thought. 1065 00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:21.880 It's like we've got more than three. 1066 00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:30.480 Library on Sunday. Confirmed featured guests include genetically Modified Skeptic, 1067 00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:36.559 the Antibot Thinker, Godless Engineer, Objectively Dan, Secular Rarity, Jamie 1068 00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:46.039 the Blind, Limey, Christy Powell and uh Yeah, Loglin, her 1069 00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:50.559 Veria and Kelly Laughlin. And you can get tickets at 1070 00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:54.000 ACA dot Shows Slash Back Cruise and folks. It is 1071 00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:56.360 a fun time. You can hang out with other atheist, 1072 00:59:56.440 --> 00:59:59.719 lect your hair down, and just be an a theist. 1073 01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:02.760 And if you haven't ever had the opportunity to do that, 1074 01:00:03.400 --> 01:00:06.679 I strongly encourage you to do that as soon as 1075 01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:07.039 you can. 1076 01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:11.639 Either this year's back Cruise or next year's back Cruise. 1077 01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:14.440 Would be really really good to do that. And you 1078 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:16.519 also get to hang out at the Free Thought Library 1079 01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:18.280 and do some other fun stuff. 1080 01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:20.199 And Austin is a blast. 1081 01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:22.840 Yeah, as so come in on Thursday and go check 1082 01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:26.679 Austin out because Austin has a lot of fun. There's 1083 01:00:26.679 --> 01:00:29.079 a lot of really cool stuff. It is a beautiful, 1084 01:00:29.079 --> 01:00:33.039 beautiful city. Just don't go north or south in the 1085 01:00:33.079 --> 01:00:36.159 freeway during rush hour because you will not go north 1086 01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:37.960 or south East West is okay nor south. 1087 01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:38.480 That's so much. 1088 01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:44.079 And folks, there are some folks that are literally behind 1089 01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:47.360 the scenes doing stuff for us that honestly, this show 1090 01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:49.920 would go much much worse without because it would require 1091 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.159 me to be more of a professional than I already am. 1092 01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:54.880 And I'm not saying I'm a professional. And that is 1093 01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:59.760 the one the only the crew are video operators, audio 1094 01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:03.480 app writers, note takers, call screeners, chat moderators. 1095 01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:04.800 All those people waving at you. 1096 01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:09.239 And their cats and their dogs or small farm animals 1097 01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:12.599 and children in cages. I mean, I'm sorry, No, they're 1098 01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:15.199 not in cagous They're all free ranged children. 1099 01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:16.239 That's why they're tasty. 1100 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:21.719 By the way, you too can be if you want 1101 01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:23.000 a crew member. 1102 01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:25.320 You can be a guest on one of our shows. 1103 01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:28.400 Or baby even somehow if you want to I don't 1104 01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:31.719 know why you would become a host like me, like Kelly. 1105 01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:34.480 And we're always looking for people interested in being a 1106 01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:40.039 part of our production. So email volunteer at atheistdashcommunity dot 1107 01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:44.119 org to get involved if you wish. And that would 1108 01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:49.559 be really really wonderful, do it. And yes, and so 1109 01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:52.519 we've got a private chat over here for just you know, 1110 01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:54.559 the crew to talk to us when stuff is going on. 1111 01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:57.360 And yes, you're always welcome to stuff on Gem's test. 1112 01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.920 Please do you only walk in the bottoms? You can 1113 01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:06.440 stop on the tops. Uh. So we do have somebody 1114 01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:11.280 on TikTok uh cool, cool that we would encourage to 1115 01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:11.800 step up. 1116 01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:17.760 I know our I know, I know our A c 1117 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:20.719 A live room told us to go ahead and take. 1118 01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:24.880 A Yeah, we'll go ahead, and uh, next up we 1119 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:28.360 get a few minutes, LA get Bob in New York. 1120 01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:29.599 We can handle it. 1121 01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:34.320 You want to discuss reasoning behind belief in Christ versus 1122 01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:35.480 not believing in Christ? 1123 01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:38.760 Yeah? Sure, I've been waiting for about two hours now. 1124 01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:40.960 The other guy got about two hours, so I would 1125 01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.920 like to at least my fair time of day here. 1126 01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:47.320 But anyway you're starting out to call the wrong way, 1127 01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:48.440 I'll tell you right. 1128 01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:51.159 Now, I would like to uh. I'd like to begin 1129 01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:53.920 my uh. I'd like to begin my part with the 1130 01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:59.159 with a little bit of scripture. Okay, So I don't care. 1131 01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:02.320 All all things were created. 1132 01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:04.360 Through him, and apart from him. 1133 01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:09.000 Not one thing what was created that has been created. 1134 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:16.159 So I don't care. So what's gonna say anything solo. 1135 01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:20.880 That's a philosophical point of view, but my I would 1136 01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:24.719 like to approach it from more of a scientifical point 1137 01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:25.079 of view. 1138 01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:31.599 Scientifical, scientifical. Yeah, we're starting off really good here. Let's 1139 01:03:31.639 --> 01:03:33.199 say scientifical was. 1140 01:03:33.880 --> 01:03:37.159 No, you gave the guy about ten minutes without interrupting. 1141 01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:38.199 No, I've just go ahead. 1142 01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:41.400 Interesting, you haven't said anything interesting yet, go. 1143 01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:43.000 Ahead, right? I was. 1144 01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:46.400 I was prefacing my statement and then I got rudely interrupted. 1145 01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:47.760 So I would like at least a little bit of 1146 01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:50.400 time to make my point of view clear. Thank you. 1147 01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:52.719 Okay, you know what, if you're going to keep complaining, 1148 01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:54.800 you're going to get just leave him alone and let 1149 01:03:54.920 --> 01:03:56.480 him get on with it. I just I don't have 1150 01:03:56.559 --> 01:03:58.639 this back and forth you gave. 1151 01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:01.159 You gave the guy about two hours to watch. 1152 01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:03.480 You have ten seconds to get on with it. He 1153 01:04:03.599 --> 01:04:04.519 had waiting. 1154 01:04:04.719 --> 01:04:09.960 Okay, contingency contingency, I did it. 1155 01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:14.280 You're going to make an argument from contingency, Yes, sir, really. 1156 01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:18.159 Definite cause if if nothing. 1157 01:04:17.960 --> 01:04:20.159 Can be created, then where did it come from? 1158 01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:21.159 Indefinite? 1159 01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:24.480 Yeah, because how did God take out take nothing and 1160 01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:25.239 make everything? 1161 01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:27.559 How did that happen? That's the question. 1162 01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:31.199 He's because that's a that's an amazing question. 1163 01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:32.440 And that's the root of the matter. 1164 01:04:32.599 --> 01:04:36.039 Okay, So, so ergy, we know that energy can't. 1165 01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:39.280 Be doing a questions. You asked the question online. 1166 01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:42.000 Go ahead, tell us, tell us and stop fucking complaining. 1167 01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:43.559 It's no, I'm not. 1168 01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:46.039 But the guy before me, he got I was waiting 1169 01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:49.639 on the line, stopping again, complaining, or we will hang out. 1170 01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:50.239 Okay. 1171 01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:52.280 We didn't want to take your call anyway. You're the 1172 01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:53.719 only caller on the line, so we. 1173 01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:59.800 Kind of had to Everything came from something like today, 1174 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:01.800 from yesterday, an. 1175 01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:06.800 Energy be created or destroyed, the contingencies and. 1176 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:11.960 Energy be created or destroyed. No, okay, everything is contingent 1177 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:16.360 on on energy. I don't need your God, where where 1178 01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:16.880 did it come? 1179 01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:19.039 And my question I'm talking physics. 1180 01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:20.079 I'm not even getting into it. 1181 01:05:20.239 --> 01:05:23.360 I'm talking physics. We're talking to law. Thermodynamics. Energy cannot 1182 01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:25.639 be treated or destroyed. And then you ask where did 1183 01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:29.679 energy come from? It can't be treated or destroyed. Where 1184 01:05:29.719 --> 01:05:32.239 If you're going to claim your God didn't come from someplace, 1185 01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:35.239 I can claim energy does. I've got better grounding, hey 1186 01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:38.079 to say energy doesn't come from anything because the laws 1187 01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:38.639 of physics. 1188 01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:39.199 That's cool. 1189 01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:40.480 Then you do for your god. 1190 01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:43.159 Let's cool it for a second. I want I want 1191 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:46.360 to I want to slow down and unpack everything. I'm 1192 01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:47.960 not trying to get into an argument. I want to 1193 01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:53.280 get into a conversation. So, okay, we got that out 1194 01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:57.119 of the way. Anyway, according to I don't know who 1195 01:05:57.239 --> 01:06:02.760 came up with Albert Einstein, something equals mc squared or whatever. 1196 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:07.039 Yeah, so it's Albert Einstein. Mass comes from energy. Okay, yes, 1197 01:06:08.519 --> 01:06:11.320 And this goes back to fund my first question. If 1198 01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:15.559 energy cannot be created or destroyed, everything is contingent on energy. 1199 01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:17.519 Egles MC squared proves that. 1200 01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:20.000 Yeah, that's a basic scientific. 1201 01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:24.639 Okay, that's that's perfectly fine and great. But I'm asking 1202 01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:29.199 where did it start in the origin, Where did it originate? 1203 01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:30.639 Energy? 1204 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.119 It was never created, It can't be created. 1205 01:06:33.159 --> 01:06:37.719 It didn't originate from anywhere because there is no there 1206 01:06:37.880 --> 01:06:39.719 is no origin for energy. 1207 01:06:39.880 --> 01:06:42.800 Energy. Is that's the whole point behind the first law 1208 01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:43.719 throne and dynamics? 1209 01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:47.280 Or are you saying it's eternal like it's always existed. 1210 01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:48.280 As far as we know. 1211 01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:52.519 Yeah, now this universe hasn't. There's a difference between this 1212 01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:56.119 instantiation of the universe and energy. Right, And it also 1213 01:06:56.199 --> 01:06:58.480 depends on which version of time, whether you think it's 1214 01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:01.559 space time or space and time, which is a whole 1215 01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:04.119 physics thing on own we're not going to try and 1216 01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:04.639 get into. 1217 01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:09.360 But yes, a matter of just a matter of actual 1218 01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:13.159 clock time, like clock time, like if I had yesterday, 1219 01:07:13.239 --> 01:07:17.719 and then if I went back in time yesterday, yesterday, yesterday, yesterday, 1220 01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:18.920 all the way to the beginning. 1221 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:21.360 I guess they say you go to the beginning of 1222 01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:23.119 the universe. And then we get into the question of 1223 01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:26.760 whether time is eternal or not. Right, we don't know, Well, no, 1224 01:07:26.920 --> 01:07:29.199 we don't know if it's space time the concept of 1225 01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:32.800 space and time, that time depends on space or our 1226 01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:35.000 space and time independent things in physics. 1227 01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:35.519 We don't know. 1228 01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:40.599 Excuse me, please, I listened about two hours of that 1229 01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:41.679 guy wastling on. 1230 01:07:42.199 --> 01:07:44.599 All right, this is your last warning, complain about the 1231 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:46.639 last guy again, and I'm just going to drop you. 1232 01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:48.519 And not only I'm going to drop you, I'm going 1233 01:07:48.559 --> 01:07:51.400 to recommend to our crew that you never come back. 1234 01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:55.840 Stop complaining about the previous guy. Now answer the question 1235 01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:01.719 equal energy. Everything is dependent on ergy. Energy cannot be created. 1236 01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:05.159 Whether time is eternal or not is up for debate 1237 01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:06.079 in the physics world. 1238 01:08:07.159 --> 01:08:09.239 Sure, okay, that's fair enough. 1239 01:08:09.880 --> 01:08:11.280 Can I please, do I have like? 1240 01:08:12.519 --> 01:08:13.719 Do I have a response to that? 1241 01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:16.479 Is this a lecture? 1242 01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:18.119 Can I respond? 1243 01:08:18.920 --> 01:08:21.000 Please? I waited about two. 1244 01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:22.520 Hours to get on the air, so I'd like to 1245 01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:24.039 at least a little bit of time. 1246 01:08:24.119 --> 01:08:26.800 There you go. Now you're gonna wait forever, dude, Bob, 1247 01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:29.319 You're gone. Wow. I hate to do that to our 1248 01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:29.880 only caller. 1249 01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:33.600 Yeah, but how many times you got to tell him though, 1250 01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:37.119 to stop complaining? I mean yeah, I mean half of 1251 01:08:37.199 --> 01:08:38.760 that call was him complaining. 1252 01:08:38.439 --> 01:08:39.039 Let's face it. 1253 01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:42.760 And honestly, when he called earlier, he was half his 1254 01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:45.520 call then was doing the same thing complaining. He was 1255 01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:47.840 complaining that we were over talking him while he was 1256 01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:48.439 over talking. 1257 01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:55.680 And the thing is, the contingency argument is perfectly fine. 1258 01:08:56.479 --> 01:08:58.880 I hate everything is contingent on energy, and we can 1259 01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:01.960 in the physics show that right is time? 1260 01:09:03.239 --> 01:09:05.039 Is it spacetime or time? 1261 01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:09.600 Go know, there's a new quantum concept that was first 1262 01:09:09.640 --> 01:09:12.239 thought of in twenty I talked about it to him earlier. 1263 01:09:12.920 --> 01:09:15.600 Just recruited everything you said, just on truth wanted earlier. 1264 01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:18.920 There's a new scientific concept that was thought about in 1265 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:22.479 twenty sixteen. It was actually proven just last year, twenty 1266 01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:26.840 twenty five. It's called indefinite causal order, and we've what 1267 01:09:26.960 --> 01:09:29.079 we found out is that the cause and effect are 1268 01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:32.560 super positional. The effect can actually happened before the cause. 1269 01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:35.840 So that takes your whole contingency argument, throws it out 1270 01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:36.279 the window. 1271 01:09:36.359 --> 01:09:39.439 Yeah, that's that's not new, that's been around. I remember 1272 01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:43.840 reading about that in the nineties. I think I think 1273 01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:45.640 it was an experiment. I want to say it was 1274 01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:49.359 in Ohio where they shot a photon of light down 1275 01:09:50.520 --> 01:09:55.359 a tube and then they would randomly close close one 1276 01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:59.640 side of the tube after the photon had passed the 1277 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:01.920 a point, and one percent of the time it was 1278 01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:04.840 in the one that was open. 1279 01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:08.560 If I remember that correctly, and. 1280 01:10:08.600 --> 01:10:11.479 I may not, I'm sure somebody in chat probably has 1281 01:10:11.640 --> 01:10:13.359 a reference to the actual paper. 1282 01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:15.279 That would be cool. I'd like to add that to 1283 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:19.720 my notes on stuff. I got to keep up with science. Guys, 1284 01:10:20.279 --> 01:10:22.039 you get your theiss with all your argument. 1285 01:10:22.079 --> 01:10:24.319 You got to keep up with science because science keeps 1286 01:10:24.359 --> 01:10:27.600 making making those gaps that your god lives in smaller 1287 01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:28.840 and smaller and smaller. 1288 01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:36.680 Yeah. So yeah, cause and effect are sometimes effective. 1289 01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:39.760 Then cause once again goes back to is it space 1290 01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:41.079 time or space and time? 1291 01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:47.720 And if you don't have time, can you have changes? 1292 01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:49.840 That's kind of the question. 1293 01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:56.199 Also, right then, and they were Let's say we say 1294 01:10:56.279 --> 01:10:58.359 that Bob was right there that there has to be 1295 01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:02.239 some cause cause that started at that doesn't prove that 1296 01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:04.079 that is his personal god, right. 1297 01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:06.840 No, nastually have the problem with a lot of these 1298 01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:10.000 is they get to Okay, you want to say the 1299 01:11:10.039 --> 01:11:13.640 contingency argument, everything is contingent on something that something has 1300 01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:16.600 got Well, okay, you make the argument everything is contingent 1301 01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:18.920 on something, all right, matter is contingent on energy. 1302 01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:23.279 I don't need to go beyond energy at all. 1303 01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:26.720 Ever, I don't need a god, right, we don't need 1304 01:11:26.760 --> 01:11:28.760 a god to know that one plus one equals two. 1305 01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:31.479 We don't need a god to know that A equals a, 1306 01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:34.560 A is not equal B. You know those things we 1307 01:11:34.680 --> 01:11:40.399 just don't need. But yeah, and any other way I 1308 01:11:40.479 --> 01:11:42.359 like to go with contingenty ar argument is that everything 1309 01:11:42.439 --> 01:11:45.640 is contingent on me, proved me wrong, and then watch 1310 01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:49.000 them flunders they can't. And the fun part about that is, 1311 01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:52.119 remember all those things that people used to say, is 1312 01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:54.600 you know, why didn't God answer my prayer? He did? 1313 01:11:54.720 --> 01:11:59.079 Sometimes it's no, he works in mysterious ways, all those 1314 01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:00.560 really fun answers. 1315 01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:03.479 I just feed it back to him. It laughs. Historically 1316 01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:07.640 it's it's great fun. Yeah. Man, the universe works in 1317 01:12:07.720 --> 01:12:08.600 mysterious ways. 1318 01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:09.279 Man, I don't know. 1319 01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:14.239 Yeah, black holes, Yeah, they work in mysterious ways, you know. 1320 01:12:18.399 --> 01:12:23.000 All right, and we have a color in the screating room. 1321 01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:26.279 Hopefully they make it past. Fun. 1322 01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:29.760 Yeah, don want to drop and hopefully they make it 1323 01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:32.079 past so it looks like it's an interesting uh. 1324 01:12:32.439 --> 01:12:37.159 Oh oh, it was Bob trying to call in as 1325 01:12:37.239 --> 01:12:37.840 somebody else. 1326 01:12:39.199 --> 01:12:42.640 I'm really really tempted to click that band collar on Bob, 1327 01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:49.119 but that is not my choice. Yes, yes he is. 1328 01:12:50.680 --> 01:12:53.680 The more we know, the less we need him. I 1329 01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:55.159 always like to point out when it comes. I mean, 1330 01:12:55.159 --> 01:12:57.079 if you're going to start trying to prove God first, 1331 01:12:57.159 --> 01:13:01.600 pro the supernatural is a thing, and over the last 1332 01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:05.439 two thousand years we've kind of proven it isn't. 1333 01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:06.840 Now. 1334 01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:09.680 Two thousand years ago, we had supernatural explanations for all 1335 01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:12.760 kinds of phenomenon. Why my ship sink beside and got 1336 01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:15.119 angry at you and created a storm and sank your shit? 1337 01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:17.800 Why did my cows get sick? Witch cursed you? 1338 01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:21.960 All of these supernatural things had or all these phenomena 1339 01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:23.520 had supernatural explanations. 1340 01:13:23.560 --> 01:13:26.640 And now you know, we know what causes. 1341 01:13:26.359 --> 01:13:29.520 Storms, we know how storms work, we can forecast them 1342 01:13:29.560 --> 01:13:31.319 with a fair degree of accuracy. 1343 01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:34.800 We have the germ theory of disease. We know why 1344 01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:36.479 cows and humans and everybody else. 1345 01:13:37.640 --> 01:13:40.239 I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as witches too, 1346 01:13:40.439 --> 01:13:42.479 but well not you know, like ones that are casting 1347 01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:44.520 mid level and spells on you. 1348 01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:53.199 Anyway, Right, Okay, Allison is up next. Cool, let's talk. 1349 01:13:53.039 --> 01:13:56.000 About how God would be unknowable pronouns or she her? 1350 01:13:56.079 --> 01:14:00.920 And it looks like you are from moving opera. Oh Missouri, 1351 01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:01.920 I'm I'm sorry sorry? 1352 01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:05.399 Oh yeah, is that Missouri? 1353 01:14:05.720 --> 01:14:05.920 Yeah? 1354 01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:10.199 I thought it was a Meli opera back of the US. 1355 01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:16.439 I was just calling because it seemed like there was 1356 01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:16.960 a lack. 1357 01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:19.119 Of college currently and I wanted to give you someone 1358 01:14:19.199 --> 01:14:20.199 to talk to him, something to do. 1359 01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:24.880 I would call up, Sorry, we just said awesome. I 1360 01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:25.399 thought I would. 1361 01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:27.600 Yeah, I thought I would call it the claim that 1362 01:14:28.520 --> 01:14:30.840 if there is a God. 1363 01:14:31.279 --> 01:14:34.680 No human could ever know anything about their true intentions 1364 01:14:34.680 --> 01:14:38.239 and motivations, because anything we would ever know about them 1365 01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:42.399 would either be propaganda from themselves, propaganda from their allies, 1366 01:14:42.760 --> 01:14:44.720 or propaganda from their enemies. 1367 01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:48.000 Okay, or made up. So how did you prove that 1368 01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:48.880 God exists? 1369 01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:50.279 Okay? 1370 01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:53.600 So I for me, that's hard to answer. 1371 01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:55.000 I don't know what it would take. 1372 01:14:54.880 --> 01:14:55.520 To convince me. 1373 01:14:57.800 --> 01:14:58.039 Either. 1374 01:14:59.479 --> 01:14:59.760 I don't know. 1375 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:01.039 I feel I could all know. 1376 01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:04.119 God wouldn't know what it would take to convince man, right, right. 1377 01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:06.840 I had had some parameters on one of the earlier 1378 01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:09.520 shows about what type of what type of evidence I 1379 01:15:09.560 --> 01:15:12.399 would need, you know, But what the actual evidence is 1380 01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:12.920 I don't know. 1381 01:15:13.119 --> 01:15:15.239 But it would have to meet certain guidelines for me 1382 01:15:15.319 --> 01:15:15.920 to accept it. 1383 01:15:17.840 --> 01:15:22.960 Yeah, there's a ton of evidence, and the time to 1384 01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:26.079 believe something is true is when you have sufficient evidence 1385 01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:31.880 to warm that belief. I just don't know that, Uh, 1386 01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:38.359 I should you know? Until until you've got some sort 1387 01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:41.479 of evidence. It's not you know, black swan fallacy, that 1388 01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:43.720 kind of thing. Uh, there's a reason to believe there 1389 01:15:43.720 --> 01:15:44.960 are black swans until you find one. 1390 01:15:45.319 --> 01:15:47.760 And we found one. Oh, look there are black swans, 1391 01:15:49.199 --> 01:15:49.359 you know. 1392 01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:55.119 Uh, But that's sort of my pot this too, is 1393 01:15:55.159 --> 01:15:58.199 the idea that it's already a big enough. 1394 01:15:58.079 --> 01:16:01.119 Thing to say there is a guy God. But I 1395 01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:03.920 think it's a more radicter paying to pay. 1396 01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:07.439 You understand the nature of that God when all you 1397 01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:11.199 would ever have is we science that I could never 1398 01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:15.359 study a god. It's not possible, So to pay you 1399 01:16:15.399 --> 01:16:18.439 know the nature of something, it would be simply based 1400 01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:22.880 on propaganda, either by them, their allies or their enemies. 1401 01:16:23.319 --> 01:16:25.159 And so I don't think propaganda is never a. 1402 01:16:25.199 --> 01:16:26.279 Good way to know nature. 1403 01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:28.960 Well, it's not a good way to know anything. It's 1404 01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:31.760 from propaganda, right, Everything is putting a spin on us. 1405 01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:34.880 And the best way to know something physical is to 1406 01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:42.319 measure it, right, absolutely, Yeah, So God would have to 1407 01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:43.439 be something we can measure. 1408 01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:43.840 Hemans. 1409 01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:46.840 God would have to be something we can measure physically. 1410 01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:50.840 That's kind of what I was saying. I want empirical evidence, 1411 01:16:50.960 --> 01:16:54.079 right on ambiguous empirical evidence. 1412 01:16:54.680 --> 01:16:57.880 When you say the word existence you are implying properties 1413 01:16:57.920 --> 01:16:59.000 that can be measured. 1414 01:16:59.119 --> 01:17:01.239 I don't know how you cannot. 1415 01:17:02.600 --> 01:17:08.479 Even like one plus one equals two being true, exit 1416 01:17:08.600 --> 01:17:13.199 that formula exists. It has properties we can measure, right, 1417 01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:17.239 it has an operator to operands and an answer. Those 1418 01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:19.840 are all those are all properties of the equations. 1419 01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:23.680 So absolutely, and I get what you're. 1420 01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:27.760 Saying, Yeah, is that true God to exist, they would 1421 01:17:27.800 --> 01:17:28.760 have to exist. 1422 01:17:28.520 --> 01:17:32.000 Within the rules of our universe because they exist within 1423 01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:32.640 our universe? 1424 01:17:33.319 --> 01:17:34.159 Is that kind of what you're saying. 1425 01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:36.119 They would have to It would interact with that universe 1426 01:17:36.159 --> 01:17:37.279 the way everything else does. 1427 01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:40.720 Well, it would have to inter I mean, well, first 1428 01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:42.760 you have to figure out that if outside of the 1429 01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:46.079 universe even has any kind of meaning. And as far 1430 01:17:46.159 --> 01:17:49.159 as I'm aware, physics is kind of up and air 1431 01:17:49.279 --> 01:17:53.279 on that one. There isn't There's a whole lot of hypotheses, 1432 01:17:53.359 --> 01:17:57.000 but there isn't a whole lot of of theory on that. 1433 01:17:57.359 --> 01:18:01.560 So that's a problem. I mean, that's kind of the 1434 01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:03.800 first thing you could have to do. The second thing 1435 01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:07.079 you'd have to do is demonstrate how something outside of 1436 01:18:07.159 --> 01:18:12.159 the universe can affect something inside the universe. You still 1437 01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:15.199 have to prove how they or how they created the universe. 1438 01:18:15.760 --> 01:18:15.880 Right. 1439 01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:18.520 This is a problem with the teleological argument is there's 1440 01:18:18.520 --> 01:18:22.560 only two ways to prove that. To prove it to 1441 01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:25.840 the logical argument, one is to show the creator and 1442 01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:29.079 two to compare the thing to something that is known 1443 01:18:29.159 --> 01:18:33.199 to be created or natural. And we only have what 1444 01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:35.520 We only have this universe, and we don't even know 1445 01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:40.760 if the concept of another universe makes sense. There's the 1446 01:18:40.840 --> 01:18:44.760 multi universe theory and hypothesis and all that, but right, 1447 01:18:44.840 --> 01:18:48.000 we're still working on it. So our physicists are still 1448 01:18:48.039 --> 01:18:50.199 working on It's a mathematical concept that math can be 1449 01:18:50.319 --> 01:18:52.880 wrong if we don't have you know, math models, what 1450 01:18:52.960 --> 01:18:55.640 we know, what we know may not be correct or 1451 01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:59.039 And that's why they built the large the l h 1452 01:18:59.079 --> 01:19:01.279 a large Hadron Collie is to prove that the math 1453 01:19:01.560 --> 01:19:04.640 proving the Higgs Boston existed, that the math was correct. 1454 01:19:04.760 --> 01:19:07.479 They were hoping, I think that the math was wrong 1455 01:19:07.640 --> 01:19:09.199 and that there would be no Higgs Boston or it 1456 01:19:09.239 --> 01:19:11.359 would not be what they thought it was or what 1457 01:19:11.479 --> 01:19:12.279 the math showed it to be. 1458 01:19:12.359 --> 01:19:14.199 But they proved the math, right. This is why you've 1459 01:19:14.239 --> 01:19:15.439 got to prove your math right. 1460 01:19:16.720 --> 01:19:23.439 Yeah, I just think it's science, but I would just 1461 01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:25.399 saying from my understanding that was I like. 1462 01:19:25.439 --> 01:19:27.319 How you would, because that was a big part of it. 1463 01:19:27.680 --> 01:19:32.920 Was they did all Chadron glider to prove something wrong 1464 01:19:33.199 --> 01:19:34.920 and ended up proving it right. And it's not like 1465 01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:36.880 the way you worded that to they were hoping to 1466 01:19:36.920 --> 01:19:37.199 prove it. 1467 01:19:37.239 --> 01:19:39.600 Wrong, because from honestly, that's what science is. You never 1468 01:19:39.680 --> 01:19:42.000 want to prove anything correct, use some detail to prove 1469 01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:42.399 it wrong. 1470 01:19:43.479 --> 01:19:46.840 Well, if they proved it wrong, I think the thought 1471 01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:49.239 was that they would have more interesting physics to work on. 1472 01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:52.960 And they would have things to go explore. 1473 01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:54.920 But they proved it right, so there's a whole avenue 1474 01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:56.800 of stuff that doesn't need to be explored now because 1475 01:19:57.359 --> 01:19:59.520 well the math was right, so our models, so that 1476 01:19:59.640 --> 01:20:00.600 our are right. 1477 01:20:02.520 --> 01:20:04.640 You know, now we got to go find something else 1478 01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:05.560 to work on, damn it. 1479 01:20:06.640 --> 01:20:09.600 Yeah yeah, or yeah, because I think they were hoping 1480 01:20:09.680 --> 01:20:13.119 for some answer because on string theory and some other stuff, 1481 01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:15.319 if they had proven Higgs boson wrong or some other stuff, 1482 01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:16.800 that would have become more probable. 1483 01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:19.520 But yeah, okay, I. 1484 01:20:19.560 --> 01:20:22.439 Don't actually know much about anything. 1485 01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:25.960 I I'm a high school dropout. I got heavily bodied 1486 01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:26.319 in school. 1487 01:20:26.359 --> 01:20:27.000 I dropped out. 1488 01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:29.279 I really wanted to graduates. I went back out heavily 1489 01:20:29.319 --> 01:20:32.840 bodied again, dropped out again. But I love information, so 1490 01:20:32.920 --> 01:20:35.359 I frequently just going through the scholar and read about 1491 01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:38.359 topics that interested me. I thought, I know some stuff 1492 01:20:38.359 --> 01:20:40.600 about some stuff, but I have massive gaps in my 1493 01:20:40.680 --> 01:20:45.720 knowledge everywhere. But I enjoy the concepts of like physics 1494 01:20:45.760 --> 01:20:48.760 and stuff I really like enjoy the Do either of 1495 01:20:48.800 --> 01:20:50.000 you have any background in physics? 1496 01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:55.239 I am, like you a dilettante, little tiny bit. I'm 1497 01:20:55.279 --> 01:20:57.119 a geologist, so I have a little bit. 1498 01:20:57.399 --> 01:21:01.439 Okay, I know that I think you right what a 1499 01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:02.359 lawyer cut him? 1500 01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:04.359 I'm a engineer. 1501 01:21:04.960 --> 01:21:07.239 Oh, I'm antually mean to him with someone else, I 1502 01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:08.199 think someone what a. 1503 01:21:08.199 --> 01:21:09.920 Host is or was a lawyer at one point. 1504 01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:17.600 Yes, Johnny is uh Johnny plays a lawyer on the 1505 01:21:17.800 --> 01:21:18.439 on YouTube. 1506 01:21:18.800 --> 01:21:19.439 I will say that. 1507 01:21:21.800 --> 01:21:23.159 I was going to say, be. 1508 01:21:23.239 --> 01:21:25.319 Sucked out a lot because I tell you a lawyer 1509 01:21:25.439 --> 01:21:25.920 on role. 1510 01:21:25.880 --> 01:21:29.199 Play on five M roll play it just role playing 1511 01:21:29.199 --> 01:21:29.560 a lawyer. 1512 01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:31.279 How much work it actually is? 1513 01:21:32.840 --> 01:21:37.000 Cross examiner too is a lawyer? Yeah yeah, basically just 1514 01:21:37.039 --> 01:21:38.199 taking apart someone's argument. 1515 01:21:40.439 --> 01:21:44.800 Yeah no, But I honestly called because it was downtime 1516 01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:47.439 and I thought, let's not have downtime, like, given. 1517 01:21:47.279 --> 01:21:50.359 Something to talk about it, I would appreciate that. 1518 01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:53.359 Yeah, I feel like you agreed to my first topic 1519 01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:54.159 and we just kind of. 1520 01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:55.680 Agreed, and that I didn't know where to go from there. 1521 01:21:56.079 --> 01:22:01.479 I kind of you might agree, Yeah, we got somewhere. 1522 01:22:01.800 --> 01:22:03.199 Feel free being nowhere. 1523 01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:05.439 I'm still talking about any topics you want to you 1524 01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:06.039 till then. 1525 01:22:10.840 --> 01:22:16.720 I think Bob is in chat being Bob Really okay, 1526 01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:18.000 Justin doesn't give up. 1527 01:22:18.119 --> 01:22:23.640 Huh Well, his handle on chat's kind of cool. Ronnie 1528 01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:27.239 Dio is awesome or something along those lines. Ronnie Dio 1529 01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:30.520 kicks ass. I'm kind of ADEO fan. I like Dio's music. 1530 01:22:31.079 --> 01:22:33.960 But if you're going to wind complain bit Simon, we're 1531 01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:36.840 going to get rid of you. You're just encouraging us 1532 01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:39.479 to make it permanent. I'm going to be honest. 1533 01:22:39.560 --> 01:22:42.960 I felt like in the that call, from the second 1534 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:45.760 they answer the phone, they sounded like the person at 1535 01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:49.399 the like steak house who's pointing across the restaurant, like, 1536 01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:51.319 why does the mindstick. 1537 01:22:50.880 --> 01:22:51.560 Look like theirs? 1538 01:22:57.239 --> 01:22:59.319 Yeah, he was on for six minutes and spent four 1539 01:22:59.359 --> 01:23:01.880 of it complaining. The other guy was on for over 1540 01:23:01.960 --> 01:23:03.960 an hour. And at least we were having an interesting 1541 01:23:04.039 --> 01:23:05.680 conversation until it got repetitive. 1542 01:23:06.279 --> 01:23:08.520 Yeah. Yeah, and he wasn't complaining. 1543 01:23:08.680 --> 01:23:12.680 So I can I ask you a question, askally, how 1544 01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:14.199 do you What are your thoughts on ton. 1545 01:23:16.439 --> 01:23:17.640 Depends on what the tone is. 1546 01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:23.439 I mean, there are there are there are tones that, uh, 1547 01:23:24.319 --> 01:23:28.239 you know, if you have if you're angry and upset 1548 01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:34.279 like he was, then yeah, that doesn't work so well 1549 01:23:34.319 --> 01:23:39.520 when you're trying to communicate information. But you know, as 1550 01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:44.680 a general rule, uh, I don't think it's a good thing, 1551 01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:47.520 but there I think there are times where someone's tone 1552 01:23:47.560 --> 01:23:50.000 makes it necessary to kind of go, hey, dude, turn 1553 01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:51.560 it down a little bit, thank you. 1554 01:23:53.039 --> 01:23:55.880 I was having a conversation about tone please this morning 1555 01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:58.399 because of the time. I didn't get this in a 1556 01:23:58.439 --> 01:24:02.199 conversation and I was confused and I would say about 1557 01:24:02.199 --> 01:24:04.880 it to me. But I thought was that if someone 1558 01:24:05.079 --> 01:24:07.960 is yelling like a lunatic at me, or if they 1559 01:24:08.039 --> 01:24:10.760 used been in this hateful ton of voice, I would 1560 01:24:10.800 --> 01:24:14.359 not engage with them because of their town. I feel 1561 01:24:14.359 --> 01:24:15.439 like it's my peace. 1562 01:24:16.760 --> 01:24:19.079 Yeah, and that that that's exactly what I'm talking about. 1563 01:24:19.079 --> 01:24:22.439 Now. Some people use tone policing to mean that you're 1564 01:24:22.600 --> 01:24:26.800 dismissing the argument or idea by attacking how it's expressed, 1565 01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:29.119 and that I would disagree with. 1566 01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:31.399 Right, you attack the argument, not the person. 1567 01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:35.039 But just because you don't like someone's tone doesn't mean 1568 01:24:35.079 --> 01:24:37.319 you have to engage with the argument or them at all. 1569 01:24:38.039 --> 01:24:41.359 That is not rejecting the argument, that's not dismissing it. 1570 01:24:41.680 --> 01:24:44.279 That's not doing anything other than dismissing the person. And 1571 01:24:44.359 --> 01:24:45.920 I think that's kind of the difference. What are you 1572 01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:48.000 dismissing the person or the argument? 1573 01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:51.319 Yeah, if somebody's just going to get angry and over 1574 01:24:51.439 --> 01:24:54.199 talk you and not have a conversation, there's no sense 1575 01:24:54.279 --> 01:24:57.039 in trying to have a conversation. I always try to 1576 01:24:57.119 --> 01:24:59.319 reel it back in first, but a lot of times 1577 01:24:59.520 --> 01:25:01.119 with some you just can't do it. 1578 01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:06.319 Yeah, I agree with both of you a lot. 1579 01:25:06.319 --> 01:25:09.079 And that's what sort of the conversations when he turned 1580 01:25:09.119 --> 01:25:11.720 down to was that ton case is more of a 1581 01:25:11.840 --> 01:25:15.680 logical fallacy than a casual thing. It's just missing an 1582 01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:18.920 argument for a salacious reason rather than having it here 1583 01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:23.680 an issue with the tony being spoken to around. Mm hmm, right, okay, Yeah, 1584 01:25:23.720 --> 01:25:26.399 I was just a common how this one I was 1585 01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:33.439 reaching for a topic. Do you don't have any other 1586 01:25:33.520 --> 01:25:34.079 college yet? 1587 01:25:34.279 --> 01:25:38.359 I know we're actually we're we actually hit the end 1588 01:25:38.399 --> 01:25:40.439 of the showtime. You know, if we had college, we 1589 01:25:41.319 --> 01:25:43.279 could stay over time if we had callers, but we 1590 01:25:43.399 --> 01:25:45.439 don't really don't have one. We have somebody in the 1591 01:25:45.600 --> 01:25:49.520 uh in the text chat, but I'm not I'm not 1592 01:25:49.640 --> 01:25:51.000 sure that it's not Bob again. 1593 01:25:51.159 --> 01:25:56.880 So well, hey, thanks for calling and talking to us Alison. 1594 01:25:58.079 --> 01:25:59.439 It was awesome. It was a great call. 1595 01:26:00.680 --> 01:26:03.359 We will chat all. 1596 01:26:03.359 --> 01:26:04.279 Right, I'll talk to you later. 1597 01:26:06.439 --> 01:26:10.039 Okay, folks, we want to thank our back up for 1598 01:26:10.199 --> 01:26:14.640 helping out tonight, Jamie blind blimey, there we go. 1599 01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:19.560 You look better? No, that was here, all fair? Yeah, 1600 01:26:20.039 --> 01:26:20.479 way better. 1601 01:26:22.159 --> 01:26:25.039 I was just jacked into cyber space communing with the 1602 01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:28.399 techno gods to see if I could discern some truth. 1603 01:26:29.640 --> 01:26:30.159 I couldn't. 1604 01:26:30.920 --> 01:26:34.319 Yeah, it was just all fur. He's nothing wrong with 1605 01:26:34.399 --> 01:26:37.159 that man anyway. Yeah, I really feel bad for Donald. 1606 01:26:38.079 --> 01:26:39.960 It was me that invited him to call back in, 1607 01:26:41.600 --> 01:26:45.039 and I could just sense the frustration in his voice 1608 01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:48.159 as he was trying to get across what was obviously 1609 01:26:48.239 --> 01:26:50.199 in his head but didn't be able to come out 1610 01:26:50.199 --> 01:26:52.119 of his throat. And I think it's one of those 1611 01:26:52.199 --> 01:26:55.159 things where again I'm sure the orders would go, don't 1612 01:26:55.279 --> 01:26:57.760 do it, don't encourage him to call again. But I 1613 01:26:57.800 --> 01:27:00.319 wouldn't mind having another conversation with him. But he might 1614 01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:03.000 be one of those things where it's actually a conversation 1615 01:27:03.159 --> 01:27:06.920 better had offline in a more casual kind of space. 1616 01:27:07.560 --> 01:27:09.239 I think the problem is going to be that he 1617 01:27:09.760 --> 01:27:13.039 can't articulate what he's thinking because he doesn't know what 1618 01:27:13.279 --> 01:27:16.319 he's thinking. He can't you knew something when you can 1619 01:27:16.439 --> 01:27:19.640 articulate it clearly, and he was not able to do that, 1620 01:27:19.760 --> 01:27:22.840 and that is a problem for him. But until he 1621 01:27:22.920 --> 01:27:25.680 can do that that, I don't know that another conversation. 1622 01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:28.199 I mean, I've always wanted to talk to him, yeah, 1623 01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:31.079 but I don't know that would be any more fruitful 1624 01:27:31.159 --> 01:27:32.079 until he's got an idea. 1625 01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:35.520 If he's still listening and he's on and he wants 1626 01:27:35.600 --> 01:27:39.479 to try it again, I mean, I'd be fine. But 1627 01:27:39.680 --> 01:27:41.399 if there is a way that we could maybe, I mean, 1628 01:27:41.479 --> 01:27:44.680 he can always send an email to TV at atheist 1629 01:27:44.720 --> 01:27:48.960 type and community organ and request some kind of offline 1630 01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:51.359 chats with me at least, then I'd be happy to 1631 01:27:51.359 --> 01:27:54.279 try and accommodate that we are a community after all, 1632 01:27:54.319 --> 01:27:59.119 and I'm happy to engage. And if he ever came, 1633 01:27:59.279 --> 01:28:01.840 if he ever drove like ten hours from Louisiana to 1634 01:28:01.880 --> 01:28:05.000 Austin to come to the back cruise, then I'd be 1635 01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:07.640 happy to do it in person over some sort of 1636 01:28:07.800 --> 01:28:12.640 chilled beverage. That would be great. As for Bob, yeah, 1637 01:28:12.760 --> 01:28:15.680 don't just complain, don't just bitch and moan. You would 1638 01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:17.760 get like he had. He had all the time in 1639 01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:21.239 the world to actually give his points and refused because 1640 01:28:21.239 --> 01:28:24.239 he was just And I think that's the large of 1641 01:28:24.359 --> 01:28:26.720 the Christian persecution complex. I have to feel like they're 1642 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:27.119 a victim. 1643 01:28:27.399 --> 01:28:29.560 Well, he was claiming to be an atheist, for one, 1644 01:28:29.720 --> 01:28:31.800 and I don't know that, you know, I don't. I 1645 01:28:31.920 --> 01:28:34.399 think mostly as Jim said, I just don't think he 1646 01:28:34.520 --> 01:28:37.960 fully understood. And he seemed real frustrated. And I wasn't 1647 01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:40.840 sure if he was frustrated with us because we didn't 1648 01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:43.920 understand them, or if he was frustrated with himself because 1649 01:28:43.920 --> 01:28:46.560 he wasn't communicating so we couldn't understand him. 1650 01:28:46.600 --> 01:28:46.760 You know. 1651 01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:52.199 Anyway, handled as well as it could possibly have been fantastic. 1652 01:28:52.359 --> 01:28:56.760 Thanks for being It's been a long ass day. I 1653 01:28:56.880 --> 01:28:59.319 feel like I am. I am now one with this chair. 1654 01:29:00.560 --> 01:29:04.640 Thanks to be the backup post here here appreciate it. 1655 01:29:06.680 --> 01:29:08.720 And thanks once more to our wonderful crew. 1656 01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:13.079 Thanks to Kelly for co hosting with me and helping 1657 01:29:13.199 --> 01:29:15.239 me to keep saying even though I'm sure his brain 1658 01:29:15.319 --> 01:29:18.960 is mush after doing free shows. Like I said, I've 1659 01:29:19.000 --> 01:29:21.920 done that before, it's not fun. It is, but it 1660 01:29:22.039 --> 01:29:24.520 isn't It is, but it isn't right. It's fun up 1661 01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:26.039 until the end, and then you crash. 1662 01:29:26.359 --> 01:29:32.079 Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely the crash is absolutely fun. 1663 01:29:32.119 --> 01:29:33.800 And to everybody who joined us in chat, thank you 1664 01:29:33.880 --> 01:29:37.000 guys so much, even those of you in chat who 1665 01:29:37.720 --> 01:29:40.479 wanted to make arguments but not actually call in and say, Hi, 1666 01:29:41.439 --> 01:29:42.800 we are a call in show. 1667 01:29:42.880 --> 01:29:45.159 We exist for you to call in, not for you 1668 01:29:45.319 --> 01:29:46.399 to argue. 1669 01:29:46.479 --> 01:29:49.119 In most of ports, you're arguing about something really important, 1670 01:29:49.159 --> 01:29:50.279 like his hot dog sandwich. 1671 01:29:51.039 --> 01:29:53.159 You put the milk in first, of the cereal, end first. 1672 01:29:53.199 --> 01:29:57.920 Those are important questions too. In cereal then bowl. That's 1673 01:29:58.000 --> 01:30:01.439 the way thing. There are apparently people who do it 1674 01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:03.600 the other way, pour it all over the counter and 1675 01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:04.880 scrape it into the bowl. 1676 01:30:06.920 --> 01:30:09.720 That works too, all right, Thank you guys so much, 1677 01:30:10.039 --> 01:30:14.000 and we will see you same BAT time, same BAT channel, 1678 01:30:14.119 --> 01:30:18.680 Sundays at four thirty pm Central. Well, someone will be back, 1679 01:30:18.760 --> 01:30:20.399 may not be me, but it'll be one of us, 1680 01:30:20.800 --> 01:30:23.600 and we'll be here to take your calls and talk 1681 01:30:23.680 --> 01:30:23.920 to you. 1682 01:30:25.039 --> 01:30:27.840 Live in chat, not in chat, but live on the 1683 01:30:27.920 --> 01:30:30.000 phone or from TikTok. I know, as we'll be watching 1684 01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:30.479 it on TikTok. 1685 01:30:30.520 --> 01:30:34.800 Thank you guys so much, last time, request up, Thanks 1686 01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:38.520 you next time right away. 1687 01:30:41.359 --> 01:30:42.000 To start 1688 01:30:44.960 --> 01:31:24.960 Stop there ready, Watch Talkie Than Live Sundays at one 1689 01:31:25.039 --> 01:31:27.760 pm Central and call into the show at five one 1690 01:31:27.880 --> 01:31:32.079 two nine nine one nine two four two, or connect 1691 01:31:32.159 --> 01:31:34.760 to the show online at a C A dot show 1692 01:31:34.960 --> 01:31:35.680 slash call