WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:07.360 The Team House with your hopes, Jack Murphy and David Bark. 2 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:15.039 Hi everyone, I'm Jack Murphy. This is the Team House. 3 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:18.600 I'm here with our guest today, Joe England. Joe had 4 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:22.719 a very interesting career, an unconventional career in several ways. 5 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:26.800 He served as a SAUDA in Special Forces, and then 6 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:29.000 he went on to be a second guy in the 7 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:32.280 unit known as TFO or ISA, one of the Army 8 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:35.520 Special mission units. And then he became a helicopter pilot, 9 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:40.479 and today he runs a YouTube channel that talks about 10 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:45.920 health and wellness and mental health. And also he's recently 11 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.920 retired and had a bit of an upset on the 12 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:51.880 way out the door that we'll talk about a little 13 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:54.359 later in this interview. But Joe, thank you so much 14 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:56.759 for taking some time this evening to talk to us. 15 00:00:58.159 --> 00:00:59.520 Absolutely appreciate it. 16 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:02.359 So look, man, we were talking a little bit before 17 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.120 the show. I'd love to hear a little bit about 18 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:06.959 your childhood and growing up. I mean, you told me 19 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:12.840 you have a really extensive military history in your family. 20 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.760 Yes, so yeah. 21 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.200 I come from a long line of pretty much officers, 22 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.640 at least until May, dating back to the Civil War. 23 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:30.359 My great grandfather was in Spanish American charge up San 24 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:34.239 Juan Hill World War One, did a number of different things. 25 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:37.400 And then he had three sons who were all officers 26 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:40.280 of World War Two, including my grandfather who was one 27 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:45.000 of Patent's company tank commanders. The other brother was in 28 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:49.000 the eighty second, and I believe the other the third 29 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.879 one was some sort of artillery officer. I'm not asware 30 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.079 of it. And then my father was a colonel who 31 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.439 started in artillery and then he ended in military intelligence. 32 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:04.040 And then my brother was a eighteen Alpha who ended 33 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:07.959 up becoming He led a dive team out of first group. 34 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:11.960 That's awesome. And you guys, you know because you were 35 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:14.560 in a military family, you guys grew up in Germany. 36 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:18.520 Right, Yes, So about six months after I was born, 37 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:19.599 we moved to Germany. 38 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.039 So from about then until we. 39 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:25.280 Were there for ten years, but we did have a 40 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:29.000 two year sit in between where we actually moved to Alaska. 41 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.280 So the first time that I moved to the continental 42 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.560 United States was when I was about thirteen years old, 43 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:40.360 and we moved to Seattle, Washington, where where my father 44 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.919 would end up retiring at Fort Lewis McCord Base. 45 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:50.120 And you and your brothers were very involved in soccer 46 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:51.280 from growing up in Europe. 47 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:54.800 Yes, so we when we when we lived in Germany. 48 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.080 I think my father had which I would always thank 49 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.159 him for, is that instead of living on the American basis, 50 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:03.520 he chose to live on the German economy. And Germany 51 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:06.680 is just like a collection of small towns and like 52 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:09.240 over here you play for soccer clubs. Well, in Germany, 53 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:12.000 you play for your town and a town that maybe 54 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.879 had like a couple thousand people and maybe you it's 55 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:17.879 like only you could drive through this town in like 56 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:23.080 a few minutes. That town soccer stadium would have practice 57 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:25.199 fields everything, and you would play for your town. So 58 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:27.240 by the time we came to the United States, we 59 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:29.639 were probably at least a year or two ahead of 60 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.599 all the Americans that we played with. And because of that, 61 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.319 out of the five of us, four of us went 62 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:36.879 to college on soccer scholarships. 63 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:40.319 And I mean it sounds like you were having a 64 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:44.319 really good time too in college, you know, playing soccer, 65 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:49.039 but uh, really you had this accident not your fault, 66 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:51.319 of course, but got into this car accident that kind 67 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:54.000 of like it did shape the rest of your life. 68 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.439 I feel like, yeah, it definitely changed everything that I 69 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.400 essentially had a plan for. I had delusions of grandeur 70 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:03.520 that I was going to finish college become a professional 71 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:08.120 soccer player. But so I was driving home, this was 72 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:10.919 my freshman year of college, and was driving home. We 73 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:12.439 were going he was like three thirty in the morning. 74 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:15.439 We were going to my girlfriend's place, who was attending 75 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:17.360 you dub which is on the north side of Seattle, 76 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.600 and we were on the south side of Seattle. I 77 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:22.040 remember at one point in the drive and then I 78 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:25.680 woke up in a hospital bed and I was like 79 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:30.040 my I had believe it was a respirator or in 80 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.680 so obviously I couldn't talk. I was basically couldn't move anything. 81 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.000 And you know, I. 82 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:41.439 Eventually when I come to my dad's there, I signaled 83 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:43.920 for him because I realized I can't talk, and then 84 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:46.879 I asked him if my girlfriend was okay because she 85 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:48.560 was in the car. Because I don't remember anything, just 86 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.079 remember waking up. I'm in a hospital bed, and I 87 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:54.240 was just afraid that I'd killed her. And luckily when 88 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:56.480 I wrote it was like, where's Karen, And he's like, 89 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.600 She's fine, and then I was like similarly relieved, passed 90 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:02.360 out woke up like twelve hours later. And then that's 91 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:04.439 when my dad would tell me that I was at 92 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.240 a head on car accident, drunk gut driver going the 93 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:11.319 wrong way down the freeway where we apparently I turned 94 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:13.639 the car at the last second. We would headlight to headlight, 95 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:16.000 and then this swung around and all the power hit 96 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:20.199 the left side of my car, which piece of the 97 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.879 car went through my elbow, cutting that in half. I 98 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:24.639 have pieces of car that went into my arm, and 99 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.600 then it just kept traveling. Twenty nine stitches on this 100 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:32.720 arm ruptured spleen, twenty nine stables to take that out. 101 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.279 And then a brain hemorrhage, which was obviously the worst 102 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:39.399 dangerous and actually I still have contusions on my shin 103 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:41.600 bones and other parts of my bones that even twenty 104 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:45.600 one years later are still visible. So and then yeah, 105 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.000 and so the brain hemorrhage. I suffered a lot of 106 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:54.079 brain damorrhage. I was assessed to have degraded to a 107 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:57.079 second grade math level, which math was actually my best subject. 108 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:00.240 I attended AP calculus, took the Pea Calcus examine high 109 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:06.680 school and had major speech problems, memory problems, and yeah, 110 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:08.319 I was a mess. And then tried to go back 111 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.519 to school less than a month later, and that did 112 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:12.040 not end well. 113 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:13.160 I dropped out within a. 114 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:16.720 Week because of you know what we now know. I 115 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.199 don't know if they were applying the term so much 116 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:23.240 as if as much was understood, But I mean, veterans 117 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.000 know a lot about traumatic brain injury now, and you 118 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.879 had one before you went into the military, and it 119 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:30.639 sounds like it really affected you. 120 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:35.399 It did, and I was I was little concerned. That 121 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:39.360 was the hardest part of my recovery because physically, like 122 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.639 most of all my injuries, with exception of the brain hemorrhage, 123 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:44.360 they just kind of patched me up and send me 124 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:46.759 on way and like everything would recover, like the elbow 125 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.879 and bone grew back, my dominal wall obviously reconnected. 126 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:54.319 But you know, I was. 127 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.279 I was so frustrated because one I didn't even know 128 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:01.360 if my cognitive abilities would ever return, and then secondly, like, 129 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:04.639 what can I do about it. It's not like physical 130 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:06.240 where I can you know, I can go to the gym, 131 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:09.040 start working out, Like who knows what I can do? 132 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:11.839 And then my family started blaming my girlfriend that it 133 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:13.800 was her fault that we got hit by a drunk 134 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:15.959 driver because if I wasn't dating her, I wouldn't have 135 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.439 been on that road, and so just all together, then 136 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:20.360 I got frustrated and I was like, screw it. So 137 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:24.360 six months after the car accident, I went to a 138 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:28.560 recruiter and then nine months later, nine months I think 139 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:30.360 it was nine months to the day or almost to 140 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.319 the day, I shipped off her basic. 141 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.319 So it is the lovely year of two thousand and five, 142 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:39.199 during the surge, and you walk in there, your body's 143 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:41.759 still a mess, and they're like, we got something for you, 144 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:42.920 and no problem. 145 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.319 Yeah, So I tried to, you know, because obviously I 146 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.079 saw the movie Green Berets when I was ten years 147 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:50.160 old with John Wayne. I was like, this is this 148 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.120 is the this is what she got to be. So 149 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:55.519 try to do the AT and X ray program. But obviously, 150 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.360 you know, they they do the whole full medical thing, 151 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:01.639 and obviously you cannot hide this giant scar which is like, 152 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.639 you know, like twelve inches, and so obviously they learned 153 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:06.920 I have a splein next to me, but I didn't 154 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:08.399 know anything about the process, so I didn't think it 155 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:09.199 was gonna be an issue. 156 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:11.600 I was already back to normal running and everything. 157 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:14.680 But it turned out that, and there's a list of 158 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:18.120 things that disqualify you become Airborne Ranger and Special Forces, 159 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.000 but one of the only things that to qualify you 160 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:23.639 just from Special Forces is the absence of a spleen. 161 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.439 And I, you know, I think I was told this 162 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:30.759 was more of like an observation, but that this this 163 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.360 medical doctrine was based back in the Vietnam era. You know, 164 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:36.240 he's it's it's a part of immune system, but it 165 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.960 helps fight fevers and that's really all that it does. 166 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:43.519 And so so when I got turned down with that, 167 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.919 I tried to acquire with the recruiter, Hey, can I 168 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:47.440 get a waiver? 169 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:47.919 Right? 170 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:50.559 And he was like, yeah, no, maps doctor is going 171 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:55.039 to assume that risk. But randomly he knew that there 172 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.440 was a back route to get to Special Forces and 173 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:00.279 he told me is like, once you get there, you 174 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:04.120 have a bunch better chance of getting a waiver, once 175 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:05.879 you're within a group. And I was like, well, how 176 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.320 do I do that? And he was like, well, you 177 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:11.200 can go be a linguist And I was like linguist. 178 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:12.279 I don't. 179 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:14.080 I'm trying to be a green right, Why wout I 180 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:14.679 be a linguist? 181 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:14.840 Right? 182 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.960 And he was like, oh, well, you get to go 183 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.480 to California for a year, learn a language, and you 184 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:23.159 get your associates degree. And when I heard California, I 185 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.120 was like, okay, I like what you're saying. And so 186 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.039 that's that's what I end up going with. Got urgent 187 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:34.360 FARSI did the course in a year, didn't roll back, 188 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:37.960 actually passed. I actually almost maxed the test despite all 189 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:39.799 my cognitive abilities. 190 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:40.039 Yeah. 191 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:41.559 Yeah. 192 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.960 And then and that's when I submitted for my first 193 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.320 airborne packet, which ended up becoming slide of an issue. 194 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:48.799 Yeah, tell us about that. 195 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:53.200 So at the end of DLI, so about a month 196 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:56.399 or two before we abt to finish, that's when they're like, hey, 197 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:58.000 if you want to go to group, you have to 198 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.399 submit an airborne packet, and then you have to submit 199 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:02.919 a part of that. You submit a packet that says 200 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:06.799 I'm volunteering for group, which a lot. I was surprised 201 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:08.919 to find out that most linguists don't want to go 202 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:11.320 to group. And of course what I would learn later 203 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.639 on in life or later on in my career that 204 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:15.759 as a linguist, there's no better job than being a 205 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:19.679 sad absolutely no better job. So I do this Airborne packet. 206 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:22.360 I volunteer for group, but I still have to be approved. 207 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:28.559 So as I am going to outprocess after I passed 208 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.639 my test and essentially graduated. On my final day, I 209 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:33.639 go in there and I haven't received my airborne packet. 210 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:35.399 So I go in to go see the doctor to 211 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:39.919 get my final signature for my own processing and she's like, oh, 212 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:41.960 and by the way, I have your airborne packet. I 213 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.759 was like, okay, cool. She's like, you were rejected, and 214 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:47.320 I'm like I was rejected. She's like, yeah, because you 215 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:50.120 had a brain hemorrhage, you are rejected from going to 216 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:53.840 Airborne and I was admitted. Like at first, I was 217 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:55.440 like devastating. I was like, I will, like what do 218 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:59.120 I do? But then she puts the failed airboard packet 219 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:02.159 on my medical records, which were not digital you know 220 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:04.559 this is two thousand and six. And then I start 221 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:06.960 walking outside and I'm thinking about like what am I 222 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:08.879 going to do? And then I looked to my left 223 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:11.440 and I see a trash can as walking out and 224 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.480 just hits me and I just walk over just and 225 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.120 I just turned the you know, the medical record, and 226 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.399 I let the failed airport package just slide right into 227 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:23.720 the trash can. Yes, and then I PCs to San Angelo, 228 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.919 Texas for the second part of our training, and I 229 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.159 go in there to the medical facility and I'm like, 230 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:30.759 I want to apply for airport backs and they give 231 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:32.759 me airwor packet and they get to the part says 232 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:36.440 have you ever applied for airborne this packing form? And 233 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:39.000 I checked no, And then got to the part where 234 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.399 have you ever had a brain injury or a TVI? 235 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:46.440 And I said nope, And I was approved two weeks later, 236 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:49.440 and I was I learned that my first PCs, after 237 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:51.600 all my training and airport training, I would be fifth 238 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:52.639 Special Forces Group. 239 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:58.759 Your attempts at misconduct here clearly allude to your capacity 240 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:02.080 to be an army spy. I think you pass the test. 241 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.519 Yeah, uh, that's actually yeah, well you can actually that 242 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:09.759 now that they think about it. That's an interesting thing 243 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:12.360 that I will actually discuss about the particular part of 244 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:15.639 the packet because at this point, and I can get 245 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:17.799 into that later, but you know, at this point you 246 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:21.120 obviously don't want to tell the military like everything because 247 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.039 the eliot's screwed. But when it came to the is 248 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.480 a packet you were encouraged to actually tell them the truth. 249 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:28.720 And actually in the portion of the packet, I'll probably 250 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:31.240 get any ahead of myself, but they actually tell you 251 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.200 that whatever you say will not go back to the 252 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:34.799 regular army. 253 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:37.519 I hope that's true. 254 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:40.000 Yeah, at least it wasn't the time. 255 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.919 So you move on to the next phase of your training. 256 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.440 And before we move on, I think we should, I'd 257 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:49.200 like to ask you for the viewers out there, the listeners, 258 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:51.200 do you want to tell them what a SAD is 259 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:52.519 and what a SAD does. 260 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:57.600 Yes, So, a SAUDA is a It stands for Special 261 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:02.960 Operations Team Alpha. And at the time only linguists were 262 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.440 allowed to be special operator or sauda's if you were 263 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:10.399 the signals, because a linguist is actually a cryptological linguist, right, 264 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:13.600 so not only are you a language but you actually 265 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.440 have a sigate parsh portion of your job, and that's 266 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:21.200 the cryptological part. There's another MS that goes alongside it, 267 00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:26.240 and that's the cryptological analyst. And they at the time 268 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.879 were only allowed to be special operations bravos or sought bees, 269 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:35.200 which are the analyst portions of that. So like thaught 270 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:38.080 A's were the collectors and saw it and you would 271 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:42.320 send your signals information that you collected back to the 272 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.919 sought bees. But the interesting thing about because every other 273 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.000 linguist would be in some sort of facility, the NSA 274 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:54.519 or some sort of fob, but sauda's were the close 275 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:59.039 access signals collectors, so all the devices and everything that 276 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.600 you did were given and how you had to do stuff. 277 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.320 You actually had to be on site with the teams. 278 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:07.840 So during deployments, instead of being deployed with either the 279 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.200 battalion Element or the company element, all saudas were deployed 280 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:14.320 with the teams and you were attached to an ODEA, 281 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:17.559 which ended up being amazing because you spend your entire 282 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.960 deployment as just an extension of essentially these odas, and 283 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.399 you get to, you know, sort of live that life 284 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.919 as much as closely as you can. 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I guess we'll get into it a little bit, 353 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.000 but would it be fair to say that one part 354 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.279 of the job is offensively looking for the bad guys 355 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.240 and also maybe part of it is also like force protection, 356 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.720 like I'm listening to the bad guys. 357 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:43.000 Absolutely, So that's actually how the Sauda job started, because 358 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.319 you know, before cell phones and everything like that, Sauda's 359 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.039 were basically force protection because they go out with the 360 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.680 teams and obviously they would get on you know, like 361 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:57.119 the PRD thirteen and all these radio interception devices, and 362 00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.720 that's how they would detect if they were going to 363 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:01.480 get in Wish or not, because usually there would be 364 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:04.039 some sort of radio traffic like hey, they're coming up. 365 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.200 So that was the job of Sauda. But then rolling 366 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:11.640 into two thousand, the early two thousands when sing really 367 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.640 started to go into the cell phone stuff like that, 368 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:20.160 and that type of signal is actually short range, Like 369 00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.519 radios have a much longer range, but cell phones the 370 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.359 way they talk to towers have a much short range. 371 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.160 So what you ended up having to be is so 372 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.759 you ended up becoming not more just for protection, you 373 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.720 actually became offensive at least especially in the intelligence roles, 374 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:40.200 and it was sort of like the heyday of when 375 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.119 you know, we had the keys of the Kingdom. You know, 376 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:47.680 there was less to no encryption and you know, uh, 377 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:49.759 it was like the Wild Wall West when it came 378 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:52.519 to those things were easy. They would later become much 379 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.799 much harder, and our job became luckily I had left 380 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.480 at this point, but almost became later on like obsolete 381 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:01.000 as the technology upgraded from two G to three G 382 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:03.039 and then four G and by the time we got 383 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.799 defied G there was there was no more job, at 384 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:06.400 least in that. 385 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.480 Portion of it. 386 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.920 And you get sent to the SADA at fifth group 387 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.079 and what is it like from there? I mean, now 388 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:18.240 you're kind of integrating with the teams going through the 389 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.079 premission training and deployments are coming up. 390 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:22.160 Yeah. 391 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.720 Yeah, So we got they they chose which ODA that 392 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.559 we would attach with first. So on my first deployment, 393 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:32.400 I technically we spent like half the deployment with one 394 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.119 o DA and then we spent the second half of 395 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.240 a different ODA, So the one that we were getting 396 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:39.440 attached to first. When we did our pre dimission premission 397 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.319 deployment training, we were actually with them the entire time, 398 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:45.920 so we could, you know, really start to integrate with them, 399 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.440 you know, because you know, as you know, when you're 400 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.400 when you're running around in like Humby's, because especially two 401 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.960 thousand seven, we were I think everybody else wasn't allowed 402 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.200 to run around Humbi's except the SF guys. And usually 403 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.680 because they still need guys back, sometimes they could only 404 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:04.200 man two Humbies, but with the sad A team, we 405 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:06.599 always could have three. So they definitely used this as 406 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.640 extra guns. And you know, so we got a lot 407 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.359 of premission deployment training and then I got we actually 408 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:16.799 went on the deployment and there was the eighteen Zulu. 409 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:21.839 His name is Boomer, and Boomer instantly took a liking 410 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:22.119 to me. 411 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:23.680 He was impressed with me. 412 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.839 He learned that I being a saud Air being a 413 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:29.920 linguist was not my original goal. I wanted to be 414 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.559 an eighteen X ray and you know, and when the 415 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:38.319 battalion commander the Italian CSM did their their visits to 416 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:41.359 all the teamhouses during that deployment, he arranged for me 417 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:43.400 to have a one on one meeting with both battalion 418 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.680 commander and the battalion CSM about me potentially becoming an 419 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.519 eighteen series and that interview went really well. The battalion 420 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.680 CSM took it upon himself to research my waiver because 421 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.599 at this point between them Boomer, they all felt that 422 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.200 I would make a very good Green Beret as a 423 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.920 good candidate for it. So they found out I needed 424 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:06.839 a It needed to be signed by a general officer, 425 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.079 which everybody knows or who doesn't know that the highest 426 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:11.920 ranking officer in a group is a colonel, So they 427 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:18.319 had to go above group, and you know, unfortunately that 428 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:21.920 waiver would end up it would be approved by his deputy. 429 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.200 But in between the week that the deputy needed to 430 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:29.640 prove it and the general officer to prove it, somebody 431 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.680 die in the Q course, if I remember correctly, from 432 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:36.079 a supposed snake bite which they then was told. Then 433 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.680 I was then told that the commander did not want 434 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.680 to assume the risk for somebody who had a weekend 435 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.759 or compromised immune system, I believe is the correct verbiage 436 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:47.400 that they used. 437 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.000 That might still have been kind of a kick in 438 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:55.680 the knots, and that you went during kind of like 439 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.119 during and as all that is transpiring, you're also rotating 440 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:00.000 back overseas with. 441 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.680 This team, right, say that one more time. 442 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:06.720 That as as all of this, you know, this waiver 443 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:09.480 submission is going through the process, you're also getting ready 444 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:11.440 to deploy a second time with the team. 445 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:14.680 Yes, yes, So so we came back. 446 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:16.519 We went off for eight months, came back for six 447 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.119 months because First Group replaced us, and then we we 448 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:21.440 knew before we went on the first deployment we were 449 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:23.839 doing back to back deployments, so we had six months 450 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.079 in between and two months prior too. So one I 451 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:31.039 did a second waiver, thinking that I, if I had 452 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:36.319 stronger recommendations that that they would prove it. But that 453 00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:39.359 was a that was not to be the case. And 454 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:44.160 then but during that training I went to what was 455 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.200 called Permitteus Group at the time because it was it 456 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.240 was done by the Permitteus Group company, but it was 457 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:50.880 a pilot course which would later become the Advanced so 458 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.240 Come Advance so COM's Advanced GSM second course. It was 459 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.160 the pilot course for it. And during that training, that 460 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:04.680 training was run by both Green and Orange operators, some 461 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:12.359 support personnel, and the course director was a former TFO 462 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.240 command sergeant major of a squadron and at the end 463 00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:19.319 of those eight weeks, he pulled me aside on the 464 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:21.839 last day where they're giving up the certifications, and he 465 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:24.359 told me that he had heard about the issues of 466 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.000 you know, my waivers, how I couldn't get to SFAs 467 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.599 and he was like, hey, we we we've been really 468 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.559 impressed with you. We think that you have what it takes. 469 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:38.920 And you know, he made the joke of why should 470 00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:42.160 skip Javi comes straight through VARs today, so and he 471 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:44.720 was like, you know, would you want to be an operator? 472 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:45.000 Right? 473 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:47.279 And I was like, yes, that's exactly what I do. 474 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:49.559 He's like, all right, here's the here's the recruiting information 475 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:54.400 for at that time, the for the recruiters that were 476 00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:55.000 doing operators. 477 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:56.519 I believe they were separate at the time. 478 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.240 And so I went and on the second deployment, that's 479 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.240 when I started filling out this ridiculous forty page application 480 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:07.440 and submitted it, I think, right. I finished it like 481 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.319 right towards the end of the deployment, and yeah, in 482 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:13.799 that packet you're told, and you're actually told by the 483 00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:19.480 recruiter too, you can reveal everything and they won't have 484 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:25.640 any sort of ramifications. And at this time this end 485 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.720 up being true for me because that's when I actually 486 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:31.599 revealed that I had had some issues and the stuff 487 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:35.559 that I had sort of hidden from the army and 488 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.440 that I wasn't this saint. But apparently that worked because 489 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:44.559 they approved my packet right, and I went to selection 490 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:52.000 the following April or ISA operator selection. 491 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.599 Before we jump into that, I just want to ask 492 00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.359 you where was it that you deployed with this ODA, 493 00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.759 if there's any interesting stories from that time that you 494 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:01.920 to tel Oh. 495 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:06.519 Absolutely, So both deployments were actually in the Diala province 496 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:12.599 of Iraq, which is it's like it's like east of Baghdad, 497 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.799 but it's along the Ranian border, so you're really kind 498 00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:20.799 of on the edge of the world because there were 499 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.839 no teamhouses east of us. It was US and then 500 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:27.519 the Iranian border. But the second appointment was awesome for 501 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:34.039 me because Boomer decided that he wanted to be on 502 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:36.839 his team, to just be an extension as a team, 503 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:40.920 and he told the battalion commander, I want Joe and 504 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.000 only and if he's like if you send the entire 505 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.680 sating team, I don't want any of them, right, And 506 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:47.720 the battalion command was like, all right, cool, you get 507 00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:52.720 just Joe and I got to be the sole attachment 508 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.839 to that team, and Boomer was awesome. The team was awesome, 509 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.519 and they they they never treated me like a support personnel, 510 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.920 like I almost felt like I was like like eighteen OJT. 511 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:06.799 You know, it was an amazing deployment. I was an 512 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:09.119 extension of that team, and to be honest, Boomer even 513 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:11.400 like certain times even treated me as like one of 514 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:14.319 the seniors, which I absolutely love and I will be 515 00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:17.279 grateful love to this day because it's probably one of 516 00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:18.720 my favorite depployments. 517 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:19.160 I ever had my career. 518 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:24.720 That's awesome. And so moving forward, we get into selection. 519 00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.279 I know there's some parts of it that they try 520 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:29.000 to keep on the down low. But what are you 521 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.000 allowed to say about the selection course? 522 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:37.039 You know, it's it's very So let's just say I 523 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:39.359 say selection was like in a lot of things, like 524 00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:41.799 when they were created, right, they caught, they cloned a 525 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:46.200 lot of things from Delta, and they changed certain things. Right, 526 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:49.279 Like I would say that CAG is probably slightly more physical. 527 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:54.759 Ours is probably like more of a mental, you know thing, 528 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:57.960 But like you probably heard, the difference between the walk 529 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:02.359 and the law a very movement. But it's not the 530 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:06.440 quite the forty miles. It's slightly shorter than that, but 531 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.759 it was so I think it was like it's usually 532 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:15.039 between four and five weeks. And it was the hardest 533 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:20.720 part about like that style of selection is it's you. 534 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:27.319 You don't have any negative or positive reinforcement, Like nobody 535 00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:31.200 yells at you the entire time, and almost everything minus 536 00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:36.440 like like a few days, everything is individual. So what 537 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.319 I found was that, especially from a psychological standpoint of view, 538 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.799 this was the hardest type of selection, the hardest type 539 00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.400 of selection you could go into, because when you're getting 540 00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:48.880 yelled at and people are telling you to quit, and 541 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:50.720 you've got your buddies next to you, you kind of kind 542 00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.400 of sort of band on to each other and be like, 543 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.240 you know what, f you, I'm not I'm not going 544 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.359 to quit, right But in this environment one you're only 545 00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:02.079 giving instructions once, and they do it completely stoic, right, 546 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:03.599 like they just say, you know, they. 547 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:06.519 Give you the instructions. 548 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:09.960 You're basically giving instructions once and then they tell you 549 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:12.119 to go to to do the best as you can 550 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:14.720 as fast as you can. They don't tell your times, 551 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:16.960 they don't tell you if you've passed The only reason 552 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:19.119 you even know if you fail is like every day 553 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.640 when you muster for an event, they tell you to 554 00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:24.160 get in these individual trucks, and then you quickly learn 555 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:26.359 as people start getting kicked out that if you ever 556 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:28.960 get in a truck by yourself, it's not good. 557 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:29.519 Right. 558 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:36.240 So, but because you don't, you really have to have 559 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:39.279 this level of mental fortitude because nobody's telling you if 560 00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:43.160 you're doing well, nobody's telling you if you're sucking. You 561 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.160 just have to believe in yourself and you just concentrate 562 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.440 on the event and then just put concert on the 563 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.279 event in front of you. Don't think about like, oh, 564 00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.240 we're at week two, week through, because you have no 565 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:55.920 idea when this is going to stop. Like everything every 566 00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.640 portion of the selection, you have no idea when it's 567 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.160 going to ad, and when it does, it's this huge surprise. 568 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.640 And then you're onto the next portion, which is you 569 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.440 had like it goes places that you never thought selections 570 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.960 would go to, like it is probably one of I 571 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.079 would say it's a more unique selection. 572 00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:16.880 Than tags is because they sort of like test to 573 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.079 you on some of the skills that they like operators 574 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:21.880 in the unit to have right to see how you 575 00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:23.039 respond under stress. 576 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:30.400 Yes, yeah, I think the logical model, but they also 577 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:36.480 want to implement that you in that unit, right, like 578 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:40.960 that more kind of like operative type of you know job. 579 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.839 So there's like things within it that are more centered 580 00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:49.880 towards that, and we have a pretty like intimate knowledge 581 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.839 because like of the difference between ours and CAGs because 582 00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:57.599 later in OTC we actually do our tactical portion of 583 00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:02.640 OTC at Camp Dawson, and we run the same lanes, 584 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:05.319 but luckily not as selection like we're actually doing a 585 00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:08.000 training which later on I thought I was good at 586 00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:09.640 LANDAB until I went to that place. 587 00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:15.759 So you make it through selection, I mean that must 588 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:17.799 have been a big relief to get go through the 589 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.480 board and all that other stuff and finally get picked up. 590 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:24.839 Yes, the board is the hardest part of selection in 591 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:29.039 my personal opinion, because armatic, I would almost say. 592 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:31.799 Because they dig into every aspect of your life and 593 00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:32.559 pick it apart. 594 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:35.400 I would say. 595 00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:39.359 What I would say is you are presented with no 596 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.960 win situations, and it is how you deal with no 597 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:52.440 win situations. It is a hostile board. Like when I finished, 598 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:53.960 when I got out of the board and I went 599 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.079 into the waiting room while they deliberated. I knew I'd failed. 600 00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:59.960 I knew I was done, Like there was no way. 601 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.759 I went into this little this room with kind of 602 00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.079 like a boister room, and I banged my head against 603 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.480 this brick wall, and I kept saying, like, you're an idiot, 604 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:08.759 You're an idiot, Like how could. 605 00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:09.200 You screw that up? 606 00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:11.200 But I walked back in there and they're like, we'd 607 00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:14.079 like to invite you to the next phase of training. Wow, 608 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:17.599 that came as a surprise. 609 00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:24.279 And the next phase was the free fall course. The 610 00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:26.400 next phase was the free fall course. 611 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.240 So you know that actually happened after OTC. So our 612 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:37.000 OTC is a little bit longer. It's just shy of 613 00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:40.640 a year. I think it's like ten of like eleven months. 614 00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:48.240 And once we finish OTC, then you're all the operators 615 00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:51.880 get get to eventually go to free fall and then 616 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:53.599 as soon as you get there, it's an o'mount like 617 00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.519 obviously the people who've been there the longest. But the 618 00:32:55.559 --> 00:33:00.880 one exception is the tactical detachment, and and most people 619 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:03.759 don't get to go to the tactool detachment until they've 620 00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:06.440 been usually about the average like three years. Like you 621 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:10.759 have to you already have to be basically senior operative status, 622 00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:15.720 and mainly I think maybe the size, maybe the way 623 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:18.240 I look. You know, I don't quite fit in a 624 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:21.160 lot of places. But I was made as an exception 625 00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:25.000 and within less than a year. Well I knew coming 626 00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:28.240 out of OTC that they were going to put me 627 00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:30.880 sort of an express lane to go to the tactical attachment, 628 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:35.319 and I ended up probably six to nine months after 629 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:38.640 I finished OTZ, I was officially in there, and then 630 00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.359 I got put to the to the OML for free 631 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:45.279 Fall School. So within a year I was in Freefall 632 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.720 Basic course and within a year of that I did 633 00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:52.559 Freefall Jumpmaster down at depp Grew in Virginia Beach. 634 00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:55.599 This time of year, the pace doesn't slow down, but 635 00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:59.519 you still need to. The calendar's packed, the weather's changing, 636 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.000 and you're bodies reminding you that it's time to rest 637 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.079 and reset. That's where ghostbed can help. It's a family 638 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.159 run company founded by a team with over twenty years 639 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:13.199 of mattress making expertise. They've spent decades perfecting how to 640 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.639 build a bed that's durable, comfortable, and engineered to help 641 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:21.119 you recover. 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Please 660 00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:30.280 check out the link down the description and support our sponsor. 661 00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:35.760 That's awesome and especially I mean as a signals guy 662 00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:39.079 to have all those opportunities is really unique and really cool, 663 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:39.440 I think. 664 00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:40.800 Yeah. 665 00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:44.679 And one other things that I really enjoyed about this 666 00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:50.559 particularly is just because a part of that job is 667 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.760 you actually because I say, kind of does its own 668 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.920 thing with his own operations and everything like that. But 669 00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:03.920 the Tackle attachment actually supports Blue and Green. So we 670 00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:07.639 actually were like on the short cycle, and so I 671 00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:12.440 actually got to spend quite a bit of time with 672 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.599 both Green and Blue, which you know, I felt like 673 00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:19.440 I had a unique perspective because I kind of got 674 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:23.719 to see inside all three of these units, both the Orange, Blue, 675 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.480 and Green, and you get to see the cultural differences, 676 00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:30.079 which are you know, pretty pretty shocking. And I think, 677 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.880 you know, especially with how the difference between how Blue 678 00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:35.760 and Green treats their support personnel, that's kind. 679 00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:36.480 Of a huge difference. 680 00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:39.719 I've heard that that Green loves their support guys and 681 00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:40.559 Blue hates them. 682 00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:45.760 Yeah, it was explained to me in a very a 683 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.800 very good way. Green these there sees their support people 684 00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:53.800 is that like they can't do their job without their 685 00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:54.559 support guys. 686 00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:56.760 Blue sees their support. 687 00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:00.960 Guys as they're in their way right and they have 688 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.039 to tolerate them and it's so and one of the 689 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:07.039 biggest I'll give you. 690 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.119 So, at some point they made a mandatory for all 691 00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:14.079 assaulters to go to their intelligence squadron over at Green Yes, 692 00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:17.159 and because of that, like when you showed up, because 693 00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:19.280 when I started going, they'd already been implementing this. So 694 00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:22.159 when I I, i'd show up and almost always we 695 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.880 were we would be attached to the REKI teams. And 696 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:28.960 but when we would be there and we would have 697 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.920 like our various different equipment and stuff like that, we'd 698 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:34.400 have assaulters who'd come over who just got back from 699 00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.559 the intel squadron, like, oh, dude, I use that. Dude, 700 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.039 it'd be super excited to talk to you about intel stuff. 701 00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:43.760 You know, here you've got these like badass assaulters who 702 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:46.559 like want to get in with the intel and uh, 703 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:47.400 let's just say. 704 00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:50.880 That never happened a blue Yeah, yeah, I mean I 705 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:54.079 maybe it was you that told me this actually, but 706 00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:58.119 someone pointed out to me that, you know, Delta makes 707 00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.880 a point of putting operators in those intel eligence positions 708 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:03.360 and they take it really seriously, like this is part 709 00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:05.199 of your career field. You're going to be really good 710 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.800 at it. And it's resulted in, you know, the increasing capabilities. 711 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:11.400 Of course, absolutely. 712 00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:15.119 So what I have found is that you know, both 713 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:18.360 assaulters at both Blue and Green, like they are some 714 00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:21.159 of the most impressive individuals that I've ever met, right, 715 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:27.119 and especially with like with the mentality and the level 716 00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.119 of maturity that you find at Green. When you take 717 00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:33.119 these like, you know, I almost think of like cheerwoord 718 00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.760 assaulters is like almost equivalent like Olympic athletes. They are 719 00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:39.079 the best. They have climbed that ladder. There is nobody better. Right, 720 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:42.119 do you take someone who already has that mentality and 721 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.000 then you're like, hey, here's a different job once you 722 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.880 do this, right, And these guys, because they have that mentality, 723 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:51.039 they see how intelligence import intelligence. They go in there 724 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.039 and they become some of the best and then they 725 00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:59.599 do their you know, I you know, this might be 726 00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:02.199 a hot say, but like I would actually say that 727 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:05.599 the intel guys who are the assaulters at Green would 728 00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:08.320 probably be superior to any guy that you find in ISA. 729 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:09.119 Wow. 730 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.239 Yeah, I mean that's pretty incredible that you would even 731 00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:14.280 think that that. They must have come a far away 732 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.800 as far as your job, you're in the tactical squadron, 733 00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:22.719 How does your job differ from what you were doing 734 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.000 previously as a SAD. 735 00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:32.400 So yeah, let's yeah, how much I can. So it's. 736 00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:38.639 So even even within the tactical side of things, I 737 00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:42.679 still did stuff outside of the tactical side of things. 738 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:47.599 And if you understand that, you know essentially that you know, 739 00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:51.760 because everybody has pretty much general knowledge that the ISA 740 00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:53.920 was sort of like started as like the army's version 741 00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:56.400 of the CIA. So if you if you can kind 742 00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.079 of think about like what the CIA does and you know, 743 00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:05.039 especially when it comes to covers and clandestine work, so 744 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.960 you have to do you do that type of stuff, 745 00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:19.159 and you know, learning how to you know, be somebody 746 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:25.039 else for a deployment is that is definitely a skill 747 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.760 that you have to learn. And I can just tell 748 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.880 you it's not like in the movies. You know, you 749 00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:35.480 have to you know, you don't have this like team 750 00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:37.719 who comes up with all this stuff for you. You 751 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:39.320 kind of have to make it up on the fly 752 00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:42.760 and you have to do your own research and you know, 753 00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.400 so that's that is definitely an interesting thing a side 754 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.239 of things. And then while I was there, you know, 755 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:54.559 because they have traditionally they have two main operational squadrons. 756 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:56.960 You have the operation squadron, you have the SIGM squadron. 757 00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:04.559 And but they quickly is that they wanted to start 758 00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:10.719 making full spectrum operatives, which you had human guys who 759 00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.360 could do sigant and you could have sigant guys doing 760 00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:18.559 human And because we deployed in such small teams, they 761 00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:23.719 wanted to be able to have maximum capability in an individual. 762 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:29.920 So like there started to be uh oh, definitely a crossover. 763 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.599 Like one of my really good friends was actually the 764 00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:34.719 first SI guy to go to the farm. 765 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:38.440 That's pretty interesting, And I mean, I think there's a 766 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:41.920 couple of interesting topics around this, but one of them is, 767 00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:44.159 you know, you had already talked about how in Delta 768 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.559 some of the operators had taken very well to the 769 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.440 intel side. I'm wondering when you tried to or not 770 00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:52.480 you personally, but when the unit tried to mix human 771 00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:56.239 and singant, how did those personalities work, you know, kind 772 00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:58.400 of on an individual level, Like there's about both the 773 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.639 person the personality aspect and also just the sheer amount 774 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.719 of information that you can hold in your head and 775 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:06.840 skills that you can maintain proficiency on. 776 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:11.199 No, that's actually a great question, because I think not 777 00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:18.440 all second guys traditionally have the personality to do human right. 778 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:24.039 I definitely think it's easier for a human guy to learn, 779 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:29.800 you know, it's definitely different because it requires a certain 780 00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:33.079 type of personality to do human. So they were very 781 00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:38.159 selective on who they started to cross train, right, but 782 00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:41.880 the goal was to eventually cross training. And also because 783 00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:46.360 especially during certain times like the unit would be more 784 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.239 employed when it came to certain intelligence disciplines. And so 785 00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:53.000 when let's just say that OS didn't really the human 786 00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.719 guys weren't having much of a job, and they were 787 00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:59.039 jealous because maybe the second guys were more gainfully employed 788 00:42:59.199 --> 00:42:59.960 and had more mission. 789 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.280 They were like, well, let us, well, let's. 790 00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:03.920 Write some of the second stuff and they'll get us 791 00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:06.000 to get us working again. And then they kind of 792 00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:09.360 went back and forth and vice versa. So it was 793 00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:13.719 an interesting It was interesting to see the transition within 794 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:16.639 the unit. And then you know, also the unit trying 795 00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:21.400 to find its own identity, if you will, because they 796 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:25.000 struggled with that for years and I probably still struggling 797 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:25.320 with them. 798 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:29.480 Is that because their capabilities are duplicated in other parts 799 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:30.639 of Jaysock. 800 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:36.679 Or so this is my understanding, and this is what 801 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:38.840 I was told of what was going on we were there, 802 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:45.519 So obviously I say it was originally created too, and 803 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:47.800 obviously you read about the secular e leap and a 804 00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:52.159 couple other books, but was to be that element of 805 00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:56.800 intelligence for both Blue and Green, and because we had 806 00:43:56.840 --> 00:44:00.119 a horrible relationship with the CIA in the eighties, but 807 00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:03.199 eventually the CIA came around and they're like, you guys 808 00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.760 are doing good stuff and it's kind of like our 809 00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:09.360 dey are when it was the analogy I used to 810 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:12.719 the strange stepfather came home and it was like, hey, 811 00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:15.840 do you want to go around the world and in 812 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:18.880 laden with us? And we were like hell yeah, dad. 813 00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:25.639 And so there was a time where I think that 814 00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:30.519 and this happened like before I got there, So I 815 00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:33.079 hear about this, like because out there twenty ten and 816 00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:35.360 this already was like they were still doing it when 817 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.400 I showed up, but it was being calmed down at 818 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.360 this point they were transitioning away from Operations CIA, but 819 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:43.599 for a good portion of the two thousands they were 820 00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:47.719 running around the world of the CIA but not supporting 821 00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:48.440 Blue and Green. 822 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.199 And that is my understanding. Was one of the main. 823 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:56.320 Catalysts of why Blue and Green end up developing their 824 00:44:56.360 --> 00:44:59.760 own organic squadrons. So by that time, the week kind 825 00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:03.800 of sort of ended our crusade with the agency when 826 00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:06.239 we came back and we're like, hey, we're back, and 827 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:07.320 they're like, now. 828 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:11.480 We're good, bro, right right, we were good. 829 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:14.679 And then when you show up right and you see 830 00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:17.119 what they're doing, You're like, yeah, you guys are good. 831 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:20.320 You're really really not that much use for us. 832 00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:22.519 How do you think that bodes for the future of 833 00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:24.079 the unit? Do you think they're going to find their 834 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:26.199 identity or their niche in the community. 835 00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:31.800 You know, they around the time that I left, they 836 00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:35.719 were definitely trying to find their specific niche, right, And 837 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.920 I think that there were some good ideas, But I. 838 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.440 Think that I don't know. 839 00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:46.280 This is my personal opinion. When it comes to intelligence 840 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:52.280 centric organizations, there is especially when it comes to personalities. 841 00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:54.639 I find that there is. 842 00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:00.360 The personalities can be a little more toxic and probably eigence. 843 00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:03.480 Just in general, I feel like is a caddy can 844 00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:08.000 be a very caddy profession And I definitely of the 845 00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:10.440 three units, I definitely think that KAG is the most 846 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:14.320 professional and the most mature and I think that there 847 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:22.119 was some innate personality problems within ISA, which I think 848 00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:25.440 is still issues occasionally when I still talk to people 849 00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:28.400 who are still in the unit, they tell me all 850 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.840 that I essentially I left it a very good time. 851 00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:32.880 Yeah. Yeah. 852 00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.719 I think the difference in a lot of ways is 853 00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:39.199 that the intelligence business is kind of people doing their 854 00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:42.239 own things, so to speak, whereas you know, you know 855 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.440 from your experience being on an ODA or a ranger 856 00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:48.559 platoon or a seal platoon, it's very much a team, 857 00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:50.719 you know, a team event that you're doing. 858 00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:53.039 Yeah, yeah, and yeah. 859 00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:55.760 And then a lot of what they're doing is they're 860 00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.559 in like you know, occasionally there's like solo missions, but 861 00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:03.679 they're like two maybe three man teams, right, and you 862 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:06.760 you have quite a lot of responsibility, and there's definitely 863 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.960 like it is a level it is not an easy mission, 864 00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:15.679 like it's you know, it's very you know, you're out 865 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:18.559 on your own, and especially whatever status that you might 866 00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:21.679 deploy in, you know, complicates things even further. And it 867 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:25.760 is definitely a very hard environment. It's definitely it's it 868 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:29.079 is a Tier one intelligence organization, right, But there are 869 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:34.079 what I found, there were some inherent problems with that. 870 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:36.599 And then honestly, like you know, you look at almost 871 00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:38.719 every like for example, take INSCOM, right, you have all 872 00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.280 these intelligence over arching umbrella organizations who no longer have 873 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:44.639 a job, Like INSCOM doesn't have a job because every 874 00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:48.960 operational unit in the military has its own organic intelligence, right. 875 00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:51.800 And so I say, it's sort of like the INSCOM 876 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:54.000 of Tier one if you want, right, And it's still 877 00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:56.159 luckily it still does its own thing, it has its 878 00:47:56.199 --> 00:47:59.440 own mission, right, but the portion of where it supported 879 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.840 the other two has been greatly diminished. 880 00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:08.000 And you did a whole bunch of deployments with the unit. 881 00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:11.079 What are you able to tell us about where they 882 00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:12.599 sent you and what they had you doing. 883 00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:18.400 I can't really, especially based on certain missions that were 884 00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:24.000 in different statuses, but I would probably say that one 885 00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:25.760 of the things when I'm in fifth Group, you know, 886 00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:28.280 especially you think about this two thousand and seven, two 887 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.440 thousand and nine, you know, Fifth Group was stuck in Iraq, right, 888 00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:34.000 and this was I was. I did my first deployment 889 00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:37.559 before the change of the Soap agreement where you had 890 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:39.719 unilateral operations, and then when we came back to the 891 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:43.239 second appointment, we were doing bilateral operations, which we also 892 00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:46.880 needed warrants from Iraqi judges, which you know, it took 893 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:48.320 us a few months to realize that we had to 894 00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:51.199 go out of the tribal region because you know, you'd 895 00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:53.360 submit a warrant through a judge and then suddenly you 896 00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:55.960 hadn id waiting for you. Right, We quickly learned that 897 00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:57.559 we had to go out of the region, away from 898 00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.760 that tribe to submit warrants for judges. Actually, but it 899 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:04.679 just completely slowed the tempo. And at that time, you know, 900 00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:07.840 we heard that like Afghanistan was still popping off. We're like, oh, 901 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:09.760 can we go somewhere else? But we were fifth group, 902 00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:11.880 you know, that we owned Iraq, like we were stuck there. 903 00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.239 So one of the things that I wanted to do 904 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:18.119 because that second appointment well was amazing because I had 905 00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:20.400 that great team experience with Boomer and the team, the 906 00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:29.079 Soul Attachment. I luckily deployments minus a single deployment was 907 00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:32.920 in other continents and I actually probably spent majority of 908 00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:33.719 my time. 909 00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:34.719 In Africa. 910 00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:42.320 Doing the tactical singing side for other JSK elements. 911 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:46.519 To actually did both, I did. 912 00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:48.000 I did both the. 913 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.440 The typical job that you would think of that an 914 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:55.559 isa guy does. And I also did the tactle thing 915 00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:01.760 because I was you know, I was saying, didn't have 916 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:05.880 any kids, wasn't married, and so anytime that there was 917 00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:10.239 a slot that opened up another detachment, or somebody needed 918 00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:13.039 to be relieved for whatever American Red Cross or somebody 919 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.280 needed to come home for whatever reason, I was usually 920 00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:18.320 the go to guy to fill in for those people, 921 00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:22.320 so which I'm looking back in hindsight, I really liked 922 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:26.679 because I went on probably more deployments and more varying 923 00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:29.559 different types of missions regardless of what I look like, 924 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:32.719 which I don't think would have happened if they weren't 925 00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:35.199 desperate and needed somebody to replace. Then I was always 926 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:39.000 available when I wasn't on certain aspects of the Jorge cycle. 927 00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:40.280 When I was available. 928 00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:43.519 From that time. Are there any like stories that you're 929 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:45.400 able to tell. And I understand you need to be 930 00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:48.000 vague about where you were when it happened, et cetera, 931 00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:50.639 but if you could walk us through, if you have 932 00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.039 any stories you're able to tell things that were close 933 00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:54.880 called yes or got a little dicey. 934 00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:01.960 You know, it's really it's really hard to go into 935 00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:10.599 like any of that without especially during that time, because 936 00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:17.280 without you know, it'd be really hard to really say 937 00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:24.920 I will I will tell you so at everything that 938 00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:29.920 I did at at the unit. My favorite thing probably 939 00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:32.599 still this day, is about four years after I have 940 00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:36.480 passed selection, I got to come back as cadre for selection. 941 00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:40.199 And when you get to go behind the thing and 942 00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.000 you get to be the super stoic guy who because 943 00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:45.840 they do it all the time, Like candidates will come 944 00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:48.400 up and they'll be like, you know, they'll they'll they'll 945 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:51.440 try to ask you for to reiterate the instructions and 946 00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:53.639 you just sit there, you know, with sunglasses on, you 947 00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:56.519 got your you know your shirt are you just go candidate, 948 00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:58.679 what were your instructions? And that's all you have to say. 949 00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:02.320 And you get to see everything behind the scenes. And 950 00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:06.519 that was really cool because then because while you're there, 951 00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:10.760 you also you learn these to be You learn the 952 00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:14.920 history of our selection and how it related to tags, 953 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:17.559 how they change things, and then you also see like 954 00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:21.000 they actually had the reasons why they chose this psychology 955 00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:25.719 versus like how they went different than SFAs and various 956 00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:31.880 different things like that. But no, I would definitely say 957 00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:37.239 that the hardest part of deployments. I would actually say 958 00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:43.159 was being in alias, and I will say this, like 959 00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:46.320 if you're I would say that one of the transitions 960 00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:47.960 that I feel like kind of screwzing with you the 961 00:52:48.039 --> 00:52:51.519 most is that when you come back and you've essentially 962 00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:57.320 been somebody else for longer than you were yourself, it 963 00:52:57.480 --> 00:52:59.880 kind of like messes with you a little bit. And 964 00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:02.559 you know all the times we always joke about it, 965 00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:04.360 like you'll come home and then you'll be with your 966 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:05.880 buddies at work, and then you'll go to the local 967 00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:08.840 food truck and you'll be like, oh, you know quarter, 968 00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:11.280 and they'll be like for who, and then you'd give 969 00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:16.039 out the wrong name because you've been somebody else for 970 00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:16.480 so long. 971 00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:19.199 Yeah, it's one of these situations where you wake up 972 00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:21.239 in the morning and you're not sure who you are, 973 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:22.599 like what's my name? 974 00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:29.119 Yeah, because they teach you early on, like the best 975 00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:32.119 way to do that type of stuff is you have 976 00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:33.360 to believe the lie. 977 00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:37.320 Right, And this is in like every CIA like handbook 978 00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:40.119 out there, Like you know, this is no secret, but 979 00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:43.440 like that's definitely the most effective way. So when you 980 00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:46.480 go around it and you basically you believe the lie, 981 00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:49.400 and then when you come back, it's a little. 982 00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:50.079 Bit of an adjustment. 983 00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:53.360 Yeah, I mean I can see. I mean, thankfully, I 984 00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:55.320 think you know you were single at the time, but 985 00:53:55.480 --> 00:53:58.679 I mean it's especially hard on the families, and it 986 00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:02.320 definitely can do and I can see why living the 987 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:09.000 type of life you describe can drive people towards alcoholism, womanizing. 988 00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:11.320 You're out there trying to find a connection. 989 00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:18.119 Yeah, so yeah, and then also you have to remember 990 00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:21.440 also another part of that is you don't make that 991 00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:23.480 much money in the military. But I will tell you 992 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:29.199 that TIERWOD operators do make money. Right, So like your 993 00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:31.559 SF guy, if I correct me if I'm wrong, Like, 994 00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:36.199 was it was it special Pro? Special Forces? Was Hazard's 995 00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:36.679 duty pay? 996 00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.239 You get hazardous duty pay overseas and you get pro 997 00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:41.280 pay for being SF YEP. 998 00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:45.559 Okay, so in the unit as in both Blue Green 999 00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.719 and Orange get this. All operators get this. So they 1000 00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:51.840 get they get the SF pay at max out. I 1001 00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:56.280 think it's like four fifty if I remember correctly, they 1002 00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:58.639 get you get your all your everyone's pays, you get 1003 00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:00.679 your demo pays and everything like that. But then you 1004 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:06.880 get AIP, which is my understanding. Only Blue Green and 1005 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.320 Orange operators get this, and it's one thousand dollars a 1006 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:15.000 month on top of all your other special pays. And 1007 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:19.519 so I am a twenty seven year old, you know, 1008 00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:25.000 staff sergeant at the time, living in you know, a 1009 00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:32.199 metropolitan city and getting getting getting a decent amount of 1010 00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:35.039 BAH on top of all these like because I probably 1011 00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:37.360 had about two thousand dollars in special pays a month 1012 00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:41.519 and on top of that my ridiculous BAH. I was 1013 00:55:41.559 --> 00:55:44.559 a twenty seven year old staff sergeant making over six figures. 1014 00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:48.400 And you cannot get that type of money in my 1015 00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:52.000 because even when I went to aviation, I took a 1016 00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:55.079 huge pay cut and I was a warrant officer, you know. 1017 00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:58.880 So there's the money, because you really can't you can't 1018 00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:02.559 replicate at anywhere else in the military, not even like 1019 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:05.559 not even fighter pilots in the Air Force whatever, get 1020 00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:06.599 that level of money. 1021 00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:13.840 And then you can't recreate this job in the civilian world. 1022 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:14.760 Like it's very hard. 1023 00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.199 Like you can go to ground branch, because that's where 1024 00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.400 most of the guys go, is they eventually go to 1025 00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:23.920 ground branch, Like especially the tacticle guys in our unit, 1026 00:56:23.960 --> 00:56:27.360 they would eventually go to ground branch. And then that's 1027 00:56:27.400 --> 00:56:30.360 when I had the fateful day. I was about I 1028 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:32.320 think I've been in the unit about six years. And 1029 00:56:32.559 --> 00:56:36.760 our unit's CW five, who's this absolute legend who was 1030 00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:39.599 a Green Beret ranger in the eighties, switched over and 1031 00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:45.039 became a helicopter pilot one sixtieth he was in Blackhawk Down. Anyways, 1032 00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:46.880 this guy kind of being like the CW five of 1033 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:49.559 our unit and he liked me. Saw him in the 1034 00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:51.079 gym one day and he comes up to me and 1035 00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:54.760 he's like, you know, and he was like this fifty 1036 00:56:54.840 --> 00:56:56.800 year old, like fifty five year old man, and it 1037 00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:59.920 had a ten pack, Like it's just stupid, right, you know, 1038 00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:02.199 Just like I was like, you know, I'm like, bro, 1039 00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:04.360 just just put it away, like you Like, I felt 1040 00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:05.639 like it was one of the fittest dudes there. And 1041 00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:07.199 he would just literally put me to shame all the time. 1042 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.159 And he used to come up and he'd like, fis 1043 00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:11.760 pump you, but he'd like he'd hit you hard with 1044 00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:13.840 the knuckles, right, and he'd do this every single day. 1045 00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:15.519 So I'm in the gym, I'm about to work out, 1046 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:18.159 and he's like so he's like, Joe, what's a what's 1047 00:57:18.199 --> 00:57:19.760 a you know, what's your plan? I'm like, oh, I'm 1048 00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:22.400 probus to do legs and he was like, no, with life, 1049 00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:24.679 you idiot. And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm gonna 1050 00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:27.639 do with everybody else because i'd been a a I'd 1051 00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:32.360 reached senior senior operative status at that point. For I 1052 00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:33.920 think it's been like a one or two years and 1053 00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:37.360 my and what everybody did was they they did their 1054 00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:40.920 like twenty twenty twenty five years whatever, and then they 1055 00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:43.440 all went to ground branch, especially the guys I was 1056 00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:46.840 in the detachment with, and that was that was that 1057 00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:48.599 was the life, that was the dream, right. And he 1058 00:57:48.679 --> 00:57:51.719 comes up to me and he's like, he's like, do 1059 00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:54.719 not do that. And I'm like why. He's like, look 1060 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.559 at all your seniors, look at your peers. All of 1061 00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:02.119 them are divorced. I don't ever have, not barely any 1062 00:58:02.119 --> 00:58:05.400 of them have any relationship with their children. He's like, 1063 00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:09.559 he's like, you've done this like between group and here. 1064 00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:12.920 He's like, you've done this, like what over a decade now. 1065 00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:15.800 He's like, I can tell you. He's like, it doesn't 1066 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.440 get any better. He's like, the seniority in these jobs 1067 00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:21.639 doesn't get you any better. He's like the best part 1068 00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:24.239 is the first five years. That's the sweetest part. It's new, 1069 00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:26.039 it's everything, you can do everything. And then once you 1070 00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:28.880 start getting senior status, you would think that you get 1071 00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:32.239 more freedom. No, that's the exact opposite. So and then he, 1072 00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:35.639 being a guy who was a former ranger Green Bray 1073 00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:38.960 and now a pilot, he was like, if you ever 1074 00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:39.800 want to go to flight school. 1075 00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:40.760 I was like, yeah, who doesn't. 1076 00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:43.639 He's like, dude, the army will pay, like they will, 1077 00:58:43.880 --> 00:58:45.280 you know, you don't have to pay to get your 1078 00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:48.719 private license. He's like, go do that. And then you know, 1079 00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:53.199 probably within a year of that conversation, you know, I 1080 00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:56.400 you know, due to some other like things that went 1081 00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:58.039 on in the unit that I did that I saw 1082 00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:01.679 that I didn't like. I was like, I'm out. You know, 1083 00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:04.320 I put in my like I was it the forty 1084 00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:09.280 one eighty seven and I applied for flight school warrant, 1085 00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:11.559 and then you know, I had to put in an 1086 00:59:11.639 --> 00:59:13.400 age and time and service favor and to being the 1087 00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:16.159 oldest person in flight school, which the first sergeant down 1088 00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:17.840 there was really happy. 1089 00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:20.000 To tell me. You know, he's like, you're the old 1090 00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:20.480 man now. 1091 00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:23.440 That was Yeah, that was some really sage advice that 1092 00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:25.719 you got from your salty warrant there. But you know 1093 00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:29.760 he wasn't wrong, No, he wasn't. 1094 00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:33.400 And actually his helicopter is actually if you usually go 1095 00:59:33.519 --> 00:59:36.800 to the RVY Aviation Museum, is the is the actual 1096 00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:38.480 helicopter in there and has his name on it. 1097 00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:42.599 Oly shit like this, this guy, this guy is a legend. 1098 00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:43.400 Yeah I did it all. 1099 00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:45.760 Yeah, this guy still a legend to this day. 1100 00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:50.400 Okay, So you go to flight school and sort of 1101 00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:52.760 first off, like what's your objective in going to flight school? 1102 00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:55.000 What what airframe do you want to be on? What 1103 00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:56.880 are sort of your goals here going into it? 1104 00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:02.519 So at this time it was my understanding, so it 1105 01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:03.119 was interesting. 1106 01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:06.400 So when you go there, when you go to flight school, 1107 01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:10.760 and if you either come from Ranger BAT, you come 1108 01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:12.280 from group, or you come for one of the Tier 1109 01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:15.599 one units, are when you finish flight school you are 1110 01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:18.599 going to be allowed the option to go straight to 1111 01:00:18.679 --> 01:00:21.880 one sixtieth. They only give this option for frame former 1112 01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:24.480 ranger you know whatever, or the Tier one guys. Right, 1113 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:32.199 And I was told by the two CW fives, both 1114 01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:35.360 of them who helped me write, who did my letters 1115 01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:38.360 of recommendation, they were like, whatever you do when they 1116 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:41.159 give you this option, say no, do not go to 1117 01:00:41.239 --> 01:00:42.199 one sixties. 1118 01:00:41.800 --> 01:00:42.599 Straight out of flight school. 1119 01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:45.079 And both of these guys were former one sixtieth guys, 1120 01:00:45.320 --> 01:00:47.320 and they told me, They're like, hey, it's a doggy 1121 01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:50.840 dog world. He's like you, when you go to flight school, 1122 01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:54.239 they teach you enough to not crash. He's like all 1123 01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:57.519 this other stuff like learning how to you know to 1124 01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:02.000 launch guys, do airborne operations, fast roping, spies, fries. When 1125 01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:03.880 you show up to one sixtieth, they expect you to 1126 01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:06.360 know it already in gratuity. You know they're making an exception. 1127 01:01:06.679 --> 01:01:09.159 But that learning curve is so short, it's like it 1128 01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:11.320 adds a level of stress to your scene that you 1129 01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:12.079 don't know what you need. 1130 01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:13.599 And when I show up. 1131 01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:15.719 To find school, there's only one other soft guy there. 1132 01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:18.639 There's another green there's a green beret there. And we 1133 01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:21.800 actually instantly become friends, right and we're sitting there like 1134 01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:23.599 one of the first days, and I tell him what 1135 01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:26.360 my CW five told me. He's like, dude, my CW 1136 01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:29.719 five told me the exact same thing. Who his CW 1137 01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:33.599 five was also a one sixtieth guy. So it quickly 1138 01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:37.039 became this thing. But while I was there. You know, 1139 01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:39.599 if if you're familiar, you know, like one sixtieth has 1140 01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:42.760 sort of become like, you know, like the Tier two 1141 01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:47.480 aviation unit sort of right, because like what does Green do? 1142 01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:47.840 Right? 1143 01:01:48.199 --> 01:01:51.360 They needed, they need a capability they there was a 1144 01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:56.159 time when you know, I think one sixtieth was their 1145 01:01:56.239 --> 01:02:00.119 operations were getting too slow because they still had this 1146 01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:02.199 bureaucadech you know, they're still in the army, right, and 1147 01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:05.000 you had officers who would come along and just their 1148 01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:08.199 their their speed of doing operations were not fast enough. 1149 01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:09.039 So what did Green do? 1150 01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:13.800 They end up developing their own aviation wing, and that 1151 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:18.360 aviation wing got so successful that it became its own 1152 01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:22.400 separate unit. And I believe the colloquial term is the 1153 01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:26.039 uh uh the Northern Virginia Boys. 1154 01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:31.039 I believe is that, Yeah, the dev group one I've 1155 01:02:31.119 --> 01:02:34.960 heard referred to as t W A t Weenie Airlines. 1156 01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:36.960 Yeah. Yeah. 1157 01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:42.800 So So obviously knowing this and actually getting to work 1158 01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:46.079 with them while was at the unit, that was like 1159 01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:49.400 became my goal because I but I knew that they weren't. 1160 01:02:49.480 --> 01:02:51.320 They were obviously not going to accept me right away, 1161 01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:52.280 nor did I want to. 1162 01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:57.360 So the goal was to get there and do my 1163 01:02:57.599 --> 01:02:59.800 go to my first unit, get my couple of years 1164 01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:05.679 in and then go and then apply for the Virginia Boys. 1165 01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:09.599 And while I was there, one of my well, so 1166 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:11.599 I did the basic course in the UH seventy two 1167 01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:18.320 Lakota and one of my contracting instructors we quickly learned 1168 01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:20.840 where I was from, and he let me know that 1169 01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:23.639 he this was a side job for him, but he's 1170 01:03:23.679 --> 01:03:28.159 actually from the Virginia Boys, and he told me and 1171 01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:30.159 I was, so we had a good conversation and I 1172 01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:33.199 was like, Okay, what's the fastest way I can get there? Right, 1173 01:03:33.480 --> 01:03:33.920 He's like. 1174 01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:36.039 Blackhawks. 1175 01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:38.880 He's like, if you do apaches, because there's such as 1176 01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:41.079 short as apaches at least this is what he said 1177 01:03:41.079 --> 01:03:43.440 at the time, was that you will have to do 1178 01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:47.199 an additional year or two as an Apache pilot before 1179 01:03:47.239 --> 01:03:50.320 they'll even allow you to take ADA. If you do Blackhawks, 1180 01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:52.440 that's the quickest. 1181 01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:57.559 Way that you can get there. So that was the 1182 01:03:57.679 --> 01:03:58.199 reason why. 1183 01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.079 So when I got to my wish list after graduating 1184 01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:03.880 the basic course, that is why I put it on 1185 01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:05.239 the top of my wish list. 1186 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:06.880 Was black Hawks cool. 1187 01:04:07.239 --> 01:04:10.480 So, so then you had to go off to U 1188 01:04:10.519 --> 01:04:11.800 age sixty school. 1189 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:14.920 Yes, went after U age sixty school. 1190 01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:20.719 And it's funny because you hear there is like with 1191 01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:24.559 any unit, you hear generalizations about like what the Apache 1192 01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:27.599 instructors are like with the Blackhawk instructors, right, and you 1193 01:04:28.039 --> 01:04:30.880 for whatever reason, you keep hearing these horror stories about 1194 01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:34.159 the Apaches instructors, right, which end up being quite the 1195 01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:38.360 opposite because you I find out when you get to 1196 01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:44.400 the Blackhawk portion that the Blackhawk instructors are like the worst. 1197 01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:48.760 Like the Apache guys are actually the coolest. The Chinook 1198 01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:51.400 guys are, if not as cool as a patch you guys. 1199 01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:52.000 Even cooler, right. 1200 01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:54.559 But I think one of the reasons why the Blackhawk 1201 01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:58.320 guys are so bitter is because they don't do anything, 1202 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:01.519 Like their airframe doesn't do anything well, and they're like 1203 01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:03.960 the jack of all trades. But since you've been in Afghanistan, 1204 01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:07.920 as you know, in Afghanistan, they don't have the power 1205 01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:10.679 to do successful operations. 1206 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:13.239 That's why basically only Chinooks do anything. 1207 01:05:13.360 --> 01:05:15.559 So as a unit commander, what are you going to do? 1208 01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:17.920 REQUI because at that at that altitude, you can get 1209 01:05:18.039 --> 01:05:21.119 like maybe three four guys with equipment on your black Hawk, 1210 01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:22.519 So what are you in a request, you know, a 1211 01:05:22.559 --> 01:05:26.000 request like twenty black Hawks or like one or two Chinooks, 1212 01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:28.880 like it doesn't make any sense. So I feel like 1213 01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:33.840 there was a These guys had a a bit of a. 1214 01:05:35.480 --> 01:05:38.119 You know, some of them literally had a Napoleon complex. 1215 01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:41.079 But yeah, some of them had like this like, oh, 1216 01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:43.960 we need to prove ourselves, and it's just this negative attitude. 1217 01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:47.559 And we quickly learned that the instructors in the black 1218 01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:49.760 Cart course were definitely the most difficult. 1219 01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:54.880 And as you're going through the course, it sounds like 1220 01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:57.159 you started having some family tragedy. 1221 01:05:56.840 --> 01:06:03.079 Also, right, Yeah, So my father at this point was 1222 01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:04.719 had cancer. 1223 01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:07.159 But then my. 1224 01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:11.440 Sister in law who helped raise me because my mother 1225 01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:13.719 died when I was fifteen, she actually left college her 1226 01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:16.559 and my brother came home and helped raise me. So 1227 01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:19.079 like she's my sister in law, but I always considered 1228 01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:24.800 my sister because she helped raise me. And she died 1229 01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:28.079 suddenly and unfortunately in the exact same way that my 1230 01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:30.960 mother did when I was fifteen, and so I went 1231 01:06:31.039 --> 01:06:34.199 home on emergency leave to be there for everything in 1232 01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:36.960 the funeral, and then within a year my father died, 1233 01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:41.239 so and I was already having issues with the current 1234 01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:44.719 flight instructor who was the flight lead of my black 1235 01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:48.639 Hawk flight, and so I used this as a time 1236 01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:52.000 to roll out of that class and take care of 1237 01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:55.400 family stuff. And then when I got put back into course, 1238 01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:59.679 I randomly got put back into his flight and within 1239 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:04.039 a week or two I got had some issues with 1240 01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:10.920 being a huge partner, created other issues within flight school, 1241 01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:16.519 and then in combination of my family and a financial 1242 01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:20.159 situation that was going on with all my real estate 1243 01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:24.360 investment properties because of COVID, that's probably when I hit 1244 01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:29.280 rock bottom and hit a level been depressed in my 1245 01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:30.239 first time in my life. 1246 01:07:31.039 --> 01:07:33.679 And we'll talk about this in a bit, but you 1247 01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:36.599 know your YouTube channel, you talk a lot about overcoming 1248 01:07:37.039 --> 01:07:40.320 some of these mental health issues. What was it you 1249 01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:43.480 were experiencing at that time and how did you overcome it? Because, 1250 01:07:43.719 --> 01:07:45.920 I mean, what you're describing it's not nothing. I mean, 1251 01:07:46.039 --> 01:07:49.079 this is something that would take the wing, the air 1252 01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:50.159 out of anyone's wings. 1253 01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:54.280 I think, yeah, no, that's a great question because this 1254 01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:56.400 actually ends up being like one of the things that 1255 01:07:56.519 --> 01:08:00.320 I tell people, especially when they're starting to lead the military. 1256 01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:02.719 Is what I didn't realize at the time, but I 1257 01:08:02.920 --> 01:08:05.079 learned quickly is that I. 1258 01:08:05.159 --> 01:08:10.320 Had tied my identity to these aspects of my life, 1259 01:08:10.639 --> 01:08:15.679 to my real estate investment, to my success within the military, 1260 01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:19.039 because at this point I'd never failed anything obviously, you know, 1261 01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:22.399 not passing waivers. I didn't really you know, consider that 1262 01:08:22.479 --> 01:08:24.800 as failing. Right, every time that someone had given me 1263 01:08:25.199 --> 01:08:26.399 the shot, I passed it. 1264 01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:26.720 Right. 1265 01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:29.680 In flight school, I had never at this point, never 1266 01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:32.319 failed to test. Technically, I did get, I did get. 1267 01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:36.479 I did fail one flight test in the Uge seventy 1268 01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:38.359 two Lakota, but that's only because I fell asleep in 1269 01:08:38.399 --> 01:08:42.640 the back. The instructor was not happy about it. So 1270 01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:45.720 I failed that he failed me, even though I passed 1271 01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:48.000 the flight portion. So I had to retake the assessment. 1272 01:08:48.319 --> 01:08:52.560 That's neither here nor there so. And then now so 1273 01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:58.920 between my financial, my professional I all these things that 1274 01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:01.840 I had tied my identity that I was successful were failing, 1275 01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:05.720 and I had no idea how to deal with failure, 1276 01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:08.880 and I shut down completely. I didn't talk to anybody 1277 01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:12.079 because I was ashamed. I was these things. I projected 1278 01:09:12.119 --> 01:09:14.239 all these things, this is who I was, and now 1279 01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:16.920 always no longer this How could I talk to anybody? 1280 01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:26.319 And it wasn't until I finally, you know, because you know, 1281 01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:27.720 I don't know if you want me to go into 1282 01:09:27.800 --> 01:09:29.479 the details about the plan that. 1283 01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:31.920 I met and I hit rock bottom, but whatever you're 1284 01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:32.439 comfortable with. 1285 01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:35.359 So, yeah, So I got a problemcause I've already talked 1286 01:09:35.359 --> 01:09:37.960 about this on my YouTube channel. So I hit rock bottom, 1287 01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:43.880 and I made a plan to commit suicide, right, And 1288 01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:48.119 I made a plan. I planned to do it after 1289 01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:50.920 my best friend's wedding, who I was. Strangely enough, I 1290 01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:54.520 was a bridesmaid for her wedding. And the main reason 1291 01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:56.760 why I didn't do it was actually because of my dog, 1292 01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:01.840 because later on I would obviously realize that, know, taking 1293 01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:04.159 your own life is one of the selfish things you 1294 01:10:04.199 --> 01:10:07.359 can do, because you know, you think you're fixing your problems, 1295 01:10:07.399 --> 01:10:11.359 but you're causing trauma to anybody who's ever loved you, right, 1296 01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:14.560 and that when that's just horrible. Right. But this dog, 1297 01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:18.159 who I had rescue from the streets of Baltimore, she 1298 01:10:18.319 --> 01:10:20.520 had nobody else in her life, you know, who was 1299 01:10:20.600 --> 01:10:23.399 I to like leave her in this world? And when 1300 01:10:23.439 --> 01:10:26.319 she had nobody, who would she go to? Right? And 1301 01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:29.640 so her was the main reason I didn't do it. 1302 01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:32.840 And then every day I was just like I made 1303 01:10:32.840 --> 01:10:34.600 a choice. I was like, I'm just going to do 1304 01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:37.520 one thing. It's going to make my life better today. 1305 01:10:38.119 --> 01:10:41.159 And then eventually I got out of it. And then 1306 01:10:41.239 --> 01:10:45.319 you I think, what I didn't know, because I guess 1307 01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:46.880 one of the reasons with this was so hard for me. 1308 01:10:47.039 --> 01:10:48.760 I had never been depressed my life. I was at 1309 01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:52.439 a sunny disposition because I'd never experienced this. I didn't 1310 01:10:52.439 --> 01:10:54.640 know what to do. And finally I. 1311 01:10:54.680 --> 01:10:57.479 Started reaching out to people. I started talking to people. 1312 01:10:57.600 --> 01:11:01.000 And realized that it was okay to have done this 1313 01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:04.960 right obviously, you know, mainly because I didn't follow through 1314 01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:08.079 with it. And so every day by day I did 1315 01:11:08.199 --> 01:11:11.439 something to make my life better. And then which you 1316 01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:15.640 quickly realize it eventually, you know, when you pull yourself 1317 01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:17.760 out of this thing, it's sort of I feel like 1318 01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:22.319 it rewires your brain chemically a little bit, and you 1319 01:11:23.720 --> 01:11:26.920 it's it's like this shadow that's always behind you. You're 1320 01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:30.560 always going that depression is always lingering there. But it's 1321 01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:32.800 how you perceive it, it's how you deal with it. 1322 01:11:33.279 --> 01:11:36.800 You know, you understand that, like that's not an option 1323 01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:41.159 and you're never going to allow yourself to do that, 1324 01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:45.720 but like it's there you're lying if it's not like. 1325 01:11:45.880 --> 01:11:48.079 And then there's like these sadness that you go through. 1326 01:11:48.520 --> 01:11:53.520 And for me, I I frame it as this is 1327 01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:56.079 the story that I one day will tell right if 1328 01:11:56.119 --> 01:11:58.560 I was ever to write, if someone was ever writing 1329 01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:00.760 a book or movie about life, which I don't think 1330 01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:01.159 i'd ever do. 1331 01:12:01.239 --> 01:12:01.920 I'm not that cool. 1332 01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:04.920 But if they did, what would the viewers at the 1333 01:12:04.960 --> 01:12:07.520 screen be yelling? What would the people in the movie 1334 01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:09.359 theater be yelling at the screen right now for me 1335 01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:12.840 to do right? And when you think about that, your 1336 01:12:13.279 --> 01:12:16.399 success is built on failures. That was just this giant 1337 01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:20.680 failure that would become one of the greatest triumphs I 1338 01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:23.439 believe in my life to get over that particular period 1339 01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:27.039 of my life so to the point where I'm actually 1340 01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:30.000 it is one of the best things that ever happened 1341 01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:33.760 to me because it has turned me into the person 1342 01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:38.079 that I am today, and I am so if later on, 1343 01:12:38.119 --> 01:12:41.039 when we talk about an investigation, if that investigation had 1344 01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:44.800 happened five years prior, I don't know how I would 1345 01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:48.239 dealt with it. But because this had already happened, my 1346 01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:52.880 level of don't give a fuck factor was so high 1347 01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:56.119 that I just didn't care. That to me, every day 1348 01:12:56.199 --> 01:12:58.960 after that were bonus days, right, I'm just happy to 1349 01:12:59.039 --> 01:12:59.439 be alive. 1350 01:13:00.039 --> 01:13:06.039 You you emerged stronger after the fact, absolutely, yeah, And 1351 01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:10.159 so you're kind of trying to beat this thing at 1352 01:13:10.199 --> 01:13:11.960 the same time, how how are you kind of like 1353 01:13:12.039 --> 01:13:14.680 wrapping up flight school and are you getting assigned to 1354 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:15.159 a unit. 1355 01:13:16.479 --> 01:13:19.000 Yeah. So basically I had to go through this whole 1356 01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:25.359 process of you know, I had to write letters to 1357 01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:30.159 Congress and all these different things, and you know, the 1358 01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:33.279 whole thing was a shit show. But eventually I was 1359 01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:36.800 able to get out of there, and then I got 1360 01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:40.399 DCS to Washington, d or to Washington DC area. 1361 01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:42.720 And at this point I was. 1362 01:13:44.319 --> 01:13:46.720 Because of the things that happened at flight school, I 1363 01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:49.039 was done with the military. So I was like, I'm 1364 01:13:49.079 --> 01:13:50.880 just going to write out the rest of my career, 1365 01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:55.840 like because like now the concept of like, you know, 1366 01:13:56.039 --> 01:13:58.119 doing anything else after that, I was like, I'm done. 1367 01:13:59.039 --> 01:14:01.920 So and then about six months prior. 1368 01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:07.159 That's when I started the YouTube channel because I was like, 1369 01:14:07.279 --> 01:14:08.920 this is my purpose, Like, this is the one of 1370 01:14:08.960 --> 01:14:10.000 the things that I wanted to do. 1371 01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:12.880 And it was something outside of the military too, right, 1372 01:14:12.960 --> 01:14:16.279 it was something you were doing on your own yes, 1373 01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:17.760 yeah and so. 1374 01:14:19.159 --> 01:14:21.640 And because I guess one of the catalysts when I 1375 01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:25.239 wanted to do this was because I've obviously experienced toxic leadership, 1376 01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:30.399 especially which I never thought I would, especially in ISA, 1377 01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:34.479 like there was some definitely some very toxic leaders It 1378 01:14:34.560 --> 01:14:36.439 obviously doesn't happen as much, but I feel like when 1379 01:14:36.479 --> 01:14:40.439 it does, it's very potent. Like it was. The few 1380 01:14:40.520 --> 01:14:44.640 individuals that were it was really bad. And I wanted 1381 01:14:44.680 --> 01:14:48.199 to make videos about toxic leadership, but like to help 1382 01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:50.680 teach people what real leadership actually looks like, because I 1383 01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:52.800 feel like a lot of people actually don't know what 1384 01:14:52.960 --> 01:14:56.600 real leadership looks like. So that became one of the reasons. 1385 01:14:56.680 --> 01:15:00.720 And then now that I had this where I was 1386 01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:05.359 able to get past taking my own life and I 1387 01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:08.319 was on this like journey of like, you know, I 1388 01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:12.560 got into Buddhism, Stoicism and all these different things, and 1389 01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:15.239 I really kind of like went on this like spiritual 1390 01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:19.960 journey to like find, you know, to understand my place 1391 01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:20.800 in this universe. 1392 01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:23.800 And what I eventually got. 1393 01:15:23.680 --> 01:15:25.159 To I was like, I think that I had this 1394 01:15:25.239 --> 01:15:29.000 innate ability to be able to break things down to 1395 01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:31.439 retard level because I'm you know, kind of a retard 1396 01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:33.680 myself because I have to break everything's down to the 1397 01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:36.119 layman in stores. I got stories from Freefall School when 1398 01:15:36.159 --> 01:15:38.600 I came to learning how to do Poe's exits, they 1399 01:15:38.680 --> 01:15:39.760 literally had to break it down. 1400 01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:40.600 A retard level for me. 1401 01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:46.319 And then I'm not afraid to talk about the things 1402 01:15:46.359 --> 01:15:49.000 that you know, guys don't want to talk about, especially 1403 01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:51.840 in these hyper masculine communities. So I felt like that 1404 01:15:52.079 --> 01:15:57.039 was my thing. So I started this channel, and that's 1405 01:15:57.079 --> 01:16:01.439 what I started originally talking about, was the was the 1406 01:16:02.279 --> 01:16:05.560 mental health stuff. I was talking about fitness stoicism, you know, 1407 01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:07.000 That's why I called it the Stowing Viking. 1408 01:16:07.760 --> 01:16:11.680 And then but people were then asking me because I. 1409 01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:14.000 Had pictures of of like my time at fifth Group, 1410 01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.000 a time at flight school, and then like time like 1411 01:16:17.159 --> 01:16:19.840 ISA or whatever, or like the few photos that I 1412 01:16:19.880 --> 01:16:21.479 did because I don't really have the many photos from 1413 01:16:21.479 --> 01:16:22.560 that time for obvious reasons. 1414 01:16:23.319 --> 01:16:26.479 And people started asking questions like why did you leave? 1415 01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:31.359 Right, so, and I never said which unit I was from, 1416 01:16:32.479 --> 01:16:35.680 and so I was like, Okay, I see this as 1417 01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:38.039 a teaching lesson, right because so I phrased it. So 1418 01:16:38.159 --> 01:16:40.880 I told the story of why I left and the 1419 01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:44.039 reason why I left is because you know, I saw 1420 01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:48.399 that there was no there was no future down that route, 1421 01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:52.560 at least not for twenty thirty years, right. And the 1422 01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:55.920 moral of the story was you can do anything amazing, right, 1423 01:16:56.199 --> 01:16:58.880 but you don't need to sacrifice your entire personal life 1424 01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:01.520 for the rest of your life life because of it. Right, 1425 01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:04.520 And if you really think about it. And this is 1426 01:17:04.600 --> 01:17:07.279 the advice that I tell everybody. Know, what you want 1427 01:17:07.319 --> 01:17:10.199 in the military, go get it, do it for five years, 1428 01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:13.439 and then lead and take that experience to the civilian world, 1429 01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:18.079 because they will reward you, you know, for in many 1430 01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:20.920 different ways. And you also have the freedom to like quit, 1431 01:17:21.479 --> 01:17:23.800 like that's that's an amazing power, which you don't get 1432 01:17:23.800 --> 01:17:24.640 in the military. Right. 1433 01:17:25.239 --> 01:17:27.560 So I made this video and it it. 1434 01:17:28.359 --> 01:17:30.239 At that point, I think my videos had maybe five 1435 01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:33.720 hundred thousand views. This thing within like two days was 1436 01:17:33.720 --> 01:17:37.640 like one hundred thousand views. And I started making more 1437 01:17:37.680 --> 01:17:40.439 videos and people liked it, and people were asking about selections. 1438 01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:43.560 So I kind of made a video selection about you 1439 01:17:43.640 --> 01:17:46.960 know how the differences between Tier two and Tier one selections. 1440 01:17:47.359 --> 01:17:49.840 Advice of how to pass Tier two and Tier one 1441 01:17:50.239 --> 01:17:54.079 never gave any operational details never gave way any secrets, 1442 01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:57.239 never still named, never named the unit. But people in 1443 01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:00.560 the comments were starting to guess, you know, to hear 1444 01:18:00.600 --> 01:18:03.800 Tier one unit and right, and I'm like, look, bro, 1445 01:18:04.079 --> 01:18:07.920 like I wish, but uh no, that's not the that's 1446 01:18:07.960 --> 01:18:10.199 not the one I went. So I started to imply 1447 01:18:10.720 --> 01:18:13.279 through the comments that I was from a different one. Right, 1448 01:18:14.640 --> 01:18:17.520 So everything's fine. The channels starting to get big, you know. 1449 01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:20.039 I get Barbell Apparel reaching out to me, wanting to 1450 01:18:20.079 --> 01:18:22.920 be a sponsor, you know, which was cool because I've 1451 01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:27.079 already been wearing these guys's clothes. And and right around 1452 01:18:27.159 --> 01:18:30.319 that time, I get this ominous phone call from my 1453 01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:33.760 command and they're like, hey, we need you to come 1454 01:18:33.800 --> 01:18:36.520 into work immediately and come see the commander. And anybody 1455 01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:38.800 who's been in the military knows that is not a 1456 01:18:38.840 --> 01:18:43.520 good sign. They that never results in anything good. Uh, 1457 01:18:44.039 --> 01:18:47.439 that's always bad. So I show up and they whisked 1458 01:18:47.479 --> 01:18:52.279 me directly into this conference room and uh, you know, 1459 01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:55.159 my company commander, she's you know, she's only been an 1460 01:18:55.279 --> 01:18:59.079 army for a couple of years, and she's obviously really worried. 1461 01:18:59.159 --> 01:19:01.119 And I've only ever to smile on this one's face. 1462 01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:03.199 I'm like, man, you okay, She's like, you know, like 1463 01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:05.840 I don't. She couldn't tell me what was going on. 1464 01:19:06.119 --> 01:19:07.680 So they slide this piece of paper in front of me, 1465 01:19:08.039 --> 01:19:10.720 and it says that I'm investigated by the Army Criminal 1466 01:19:10.760 --> 01:19:15.239 Investigation Division or the Post for the possible disc. 1467 01:19:16.319 --> 01:19:18.800 Unclassified or of classified information. 1468 01:19:22.000 --> 01:19:25.720 And I think you've probably you're probably aware of this, Joe. 1469 01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:30.479 But there's sort of a larger context happening in the 1470 01:19:30.520 --> 01:19:35.079 Special Operations community, going after all kinds of veterans who 1471 01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:38.399 have spoken on podcasts or spoken in interviews or whatever 1472 01:19:38.439 --> 01:19:41.079 the case may be. About a year and a half ago, 1473 01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:45.479 DELTA sent out a letter to all of their members. Yeah, 1474 01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:48.199 and the letter, you know, it's kind of starts off 1475 01:19:48.279 --> 01:19:50.880 where it's like, you know, warning people, you know, be 1476 01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:54.119 careful about not dischools and classified information, which I think 1477 01:19:54.359 --> 01:19:58.960 that's within their wheelhouse, right, nothing saying that, But then 1478 01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:05.159 they ask veterans of the unit to socially shame other 1479 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:08.199 veterans of the unit that speak out in ways that 1480 01:20:09.039 --> 01:20:14.680 they find inappropriate and that is completely beyond the purview 1481 01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:17.680 of some command or at some unit at Fort Bragg, 1482 01:20:18.119 --> 01:20:21.479 to try to suppress the First Amendment rights of private 1483 01:20:21.560 --> 01:20:25.199 citizens out there in America. And I just had another 1484 01:20:25.279 --> 01:20:29.720 friend he worked for one of the JASOX support units, 1485 01:20:30.279 --> 01:20:33.600 and they came after him this last week because of 1486 01:20:33.640 --> 01:20:35.840 an interview he did with us about a year ago. 1487 01:20:36.199 --> 01:20:39.239 And there's nothing they can do, as we'll talk about 1488 01:20:39.279 --> 01:20:41.520 with your case, there's nothing they can really do to 1489 01:20:41.640 --> 01:20:44.439 him because he didn't say anything wrong, he did not 1490 01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:47.920 divulge classified information. But what they will do is try 1491 01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:50.479 to socially shame you within the community. 1492 01:20:50.600 --> 01:20:51.920 Yeah. 1493 01:20:52.640 --> 01:20:56.920 So yeah, And I already started to see this even prior, 1494 01:20:57.000 --> 01:20:59.880 because I think I saw Sean Ryan talking about it, 1495 01:21:00.439 --> 01:21:03.479 you know, doing these interviews and suddenly you know, they're like, oh, 1496 01:21:03.800 --> 01:21:05.439 you have to take our videos down, and you know, 1497 01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:08.720 and as Sean Ryan said, is like, you know, you can't, 1498 01:21:09.119 --> 01:21:11.279 like you're allowed to talk about your lives obviously, don't 1499 01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:13.960 give them any operational details. So and one of the 1500 01:21:14.039 --> 01:21:17.319 reasons that I chose the path of my channel anyways, 1501 01:21:17.359 --> 01:21:20.399 which was one not to be about operational details, and 1502 01:21:20.600 --> 01:21:25.039 I wanted to be about stoicism, philosophy, life lessons, talking 1503 01:21:25.079 --> 01:21:27.439 about the hard truths and these you know, the suicide 1504 01:21:27.560 --> 01:21:30.479 mental health because especially when I was when I was 1505 01:21:30.520 --> 01:21:34.000 in the unit. Even when I was in aviation, if 1506 01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:35.960 you went to mental health, that was the end of 1507 01:21:36.039 --> 01:21:39.279 your career, right, you couldn't go. It wasn't until like 1508 01:21:39.319 --> 01:21:41.199 a couple of years later, like towards the end of 1509 01:21:41.239 --> 01:21:43.560 my career, that it was okay to go to mental health. 1510 01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:45.640 So that's what I want to talk about. And I 1511 01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:48.039 never wanted to be about the unit because like, one, 1512 01:21:48.119 --> 01:21:51.319 I don't think I'm that cool anyways, and two, like 1513 01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:53.199 what am I going to talk about anyways? No, I 1514 01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:55.960 was like, no, we're good. So yeah, So the the 1515 01:21:56.159 --> 01:22:00.079 the intent of the channel was, you know, not to 1516 01:22:00.199 --> 01:22:03.039 be about the operational details, you know, because one I 1517 01:22:03.039 --> 01:22:05.399 don't think I'm that cool anyways, and then two like 1518 01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:07.319 what are you actually going to talk about? Like it 1519 01:22:07.439 --> 01:22:09.439 just it's such a murky road. Didn't want to do 1520 01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:12.880 any of that type of stuff. And so the focus 1521 01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:15.359 of the channel was, you know, obviously on the philosophy, 1522 01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:21.119 the stoicism, you know, making the mental health especially because 1523 01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:24.720 you know, when I was in the unit and aviation, 1524 01:22:25.319 --> 01:22:27.600 if you went to mental health, that was a death sentence, 1525 01:22:27.680 --> 01:22:30.560 like your career is over. And luckily, in the last 1526 01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:33.520 couple of years, right before retired, it definitely shifted that 1527 01:22:33.680 --> 01:22:35.960 that be okay, but it definitely like we had a 1528 01:22:36.039 --> 01:22:37.760 guy in while I was in flight school who went 1529 01:22:37.800 --> 01:22:39.960 to mental health. He was he was kicked out within 1530 01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:44.319 a week, and obviously in the unit you definitely couldn't 1531 01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:46.159 go to mental health like that was that was a 1532 01:22:46.199 --> 01:22:50.079 death sentence on the death sentence. So but you know, 1533 01:22:50.319 --> 01:22:52.840 I did my due diligence and I researched all this stuff. 1534 01:22:52.880 --> 01:22:55.279 And whether Vieweditt likes it or not, there's plenty of 1535 01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:58.119 books which I also have a funny story because I 1536 01:22:58.279 --> 01:23:01.239 actually showed up the ISA select because at this time 1537 01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:03.720 in twenty ten, I think the only book at that 1538 01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:07.319 time was Killer Lee. Yeah, and you have to remember 1539 01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:09.039 this is two thousand and two, that two thousand and nine, 1540 01:23:09.039 --> 01:23:13.039 twenty ten, right, and what there was very little known 1541 01:23:13.039 --> 01:23:15.640 about the unit, right, so I'll quickly go into this 1542 01:23:15.680 --> 01:23:16.119 real quickly. 1543 01:23:16.279 --> 01:23:18.239 I think it's a little it might be a little pertinent. 1544 01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:21.680 Is at that time it was like whispers of what 1545 01:23:22.079 --> 01:23:24.319 orange and green were, Like everybody knew what green was, 1546 01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:26.159 but they're like, what is orange? And the thing that 1547 01:23:26.279 --> 01:23:29.279 I was told by a green beret in the company 1548 01:23:29.319 --> 01:23:32.079 that was in and because he was interested to go 1549 01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:34.720 to like Orange. Actually he was like, if you want 1550 01:23:34.720 --> 01:23:36.600 to be John Rambo, you go agree. If you want 1551 01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:39.159 to be James Bond, you go to Orange, right, And 1552 01:23:39.279 --> 01:23:42.319 obviously that could not be farther like that was such 1553 01:23:42.319 --> 01:23:46.199 a disappointment. But you know this is to a truth, 1554 01:23:46.239 --> 01:23:48.359 there is some truth to it that type of job. 1555 01:23:48.520 --> 01:23:53.319 But when I but when you're applying right that, nowhere 1556 01:23:53.479 --> 01:23:55.319 did they actually say the name of the unit, right, 1557 01:23:55.399 --> 01:23:58.199 So you're applying, so you think you're applying for this job. 1558 01:23:58.520 --> 01:24:01.359 So I show up to this selection and I'm still 1559 01:24:01.479 --> 01:24:04.840 not one hundred percent sure, Dodd, I'm trying out for 1560 01:24:05.399 --> 01:24:07.680 So I bring two books. I bring the book Killer 1561 01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:10.520 Elite and I bring the book The Mission and a 1562 01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:12.279 Menemy by People Labor, which was always one of my 1563 01:24:12.319 --> 01:24:16.279 favorite books. I like how he taught life lessons in 1564 01:24:16.319 --> 01:24:17.680 that book, which is sort of one of the things 1565 01:24:17.680 --> 01:24:20.880 that modeled how I did my channel. So the first 1566 01:24:20.960 --> 01:24:24.359 week that you do everything, it's a selection before you 1567 01:24:24.479 --> 01:24:26.840 go off to the actual real selection, is all like 1568 01:24:27.319 --> 01:24:30.760 PT tests interview CI and you're sitting down, you're doing 1569 01:24:30.800 --> 01:24:34.159 polygraphs a stuff. I get called into one of my 1570 01:24:34.239 --> 01:24:38.840 CI interviews one day and he's like, hey, you know 1571 01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:41.239 you like to read and I was like, yeah, I 1572 01:24:41.399 --> 01:24:43.000 like to read. He's like, did you bring any books 1573 01:24:43.039 --> 01:24:44.560 with you? I was like yeah, I bought some books. 1574 01:24:44.920 --> 01:24:47.239 He's like cool, Cool, what books did you bring. I 1575 01:24:47.359 --> 01:24:50.000 was like, ah, you know, like you know, Mission and 1576 01:24:50.039 --> 01:24:51.039 Mename and some other books. 1577 01:24:51.039 --> 01:24:53.359 And he's like what other book? 1578 01:24:54.319 --> 01:24:57.720 And I'm like, I remember having a conversation like an 1579 01:24:57.760 --> 01:24:59.800 hour prior with some other dude who was in there 1580 01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:03.520 talking about how like Killer Elite was like, you know, 1581 01:25:03.800 --> 01:25:07.079 possibly about this unit, and so he's like, you know, 1582 01:25:07.359 --> 01:25:09.319 I was like, oh, I'm just reading this book, Killer 1583 01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:12.119 Elite and he's like, what is that book about. I 1584 01:25:12.239 --> 01:25:15.520 was like, well, supposedly it's about this unit, right, And 1585 01:25:15.600 --> 01:25:18.640 he's like do you think that's a good idea to 1586 01:25:18.760 --> 01:25:21.720 read this? And then that immediately piqued my interest. Is 1587 01:25:21.760 --> 01:25:23.760 like why does he not want me to know? So 1588 01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:24.920 I leaned it and I was like. 1589 01:25:25.640 --> 01:25:28.359 Should I not be reading this book? Like is there 1590 01:25:28.399 --> 01:25:28.880 a reason? 1591 01:25:29.039 --> 01:25:31.039 And he just like looks at me coldly and he's like, 1592 01:25:31.640 --> 01:25:33.439 you should not be reading that book while you're here. 1593 01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:37.159 So I get out of that interview. Oh no. The 1594 01:25:37.239 --> 01:25:39.520 last thing I say is like, well, wouldn't you want 1595 01:25:39.640 --> 01:25:42.399 to know what as much doubt, but you didn't to 1596 01:25:42.439 --> 01:25:45.039 cheer your supposedly, and he looks at me coldly again, 1597 01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:47.920 he goes, just don't read that book while you're here. 1598 01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:49.399 So I immediately went straight. 1599 01:25:49.199 --> 01:25:51.520 To my book and I was like halfway through it, 1600 01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:53.840 and I've never read a book so fast in my 1601 01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:56.000 entire life. And when I was done, I slammed it 1602 01:25:56.079 --> 01:25:58.960 down and I was like, I've never been so disappointed 1603 01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:01.279 in my life. There was nothing about selection. It was 1604 01:26:01.319 --> 01:26:04.079 like the driest book that I've ever fucking read and 1605 01:26:04.159 --> 01:26:06.960 there's nothing in there, right, But they made this whole thing. 1606 01:26:07.079 --> 01:26:09.800 So going back to I did all this research. I 1607 01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:14.079 made sure that everything that I would possibly talk about 1608 01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:19.600 was already publicly available information, and I made very careful 1609 01:26:19.680 --> 01:26:24.600 that I didn't imply any names. I used the most 1610 01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:28.159 outed names within the unit, which was Isa and TFO. 1611 01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:35.239 But you know, apparently they're not on the same page 1612 01:26:35.279 --> 01:26:37.239 of believing that that's okay. 1613 01:26:37.119 --> 01:26:37.640 To talk about. 1614 01:26:37.960 --> 01:26:40.960 So how did this investigation against you shake out? That 1615 01:26:41.319 --> 01:26:44.319 they're saying that your use of these terms is classified 1616 01:26:44.399 --> 01:26:46.640 information that you can't reveal publicly. 1617 01:26:48.039 --> 01:26:54.760 Yeah, So so what ended up happening? Is you know, through. 1618 01:26:56.760 --> 01:27:04.239 Unofficial, unofficial avenues. I was informed that one my former 1619 01:27:04.359 --> 01:27:10.079 unit was chain of UH leadership, was in contact with 1620 01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:14.640 my current Champion command and it was implied to me 1621 01:27:15.560 --> 01:27:22.960 that that me posting any sort of information even even 1622 01:27:23.039 --> 01:27:26.439 remotely relating to the unit was a bad precedent and 1623 01:27:26.920 --> 01:27:38.079 that I they should maybe you know, made example of that, 1624 01:27:38.239 --> 01:27:41.479 they should pursue as much as they can within their 1625 01:27:42.399 --> 01:27:44.319 their legal capabilities. 1626 01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:46.319 And then I. 1627 01:27:46.520 --> 01:27:52.600 Learned about a week later from this similar unofficial source 1628 01:27:53.039 --> 01:27:57.359 that that the shift went from they realized that nothing 1629 01:27:57.399 --> 01:28:01.119 I had talked about was actually directly classified. They were 1630 01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:06.640 now trying to see if they could put sort of 1631 01:28:06.680 --> 01:28:11.079 an aggregate of me placing unclassed sources together and then 1632 01:28:11.239 --> 01:28:16.680 like infirming things that that would actually be could be 1633 01:28:16.880 --> 01:28:21.239 they could find some sort of you know, charge within there. 1634 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:26.239 But that luckily, that line of thinking did not work 1635 01:28:26.279 --> 01:28:31.119 out for them, and ultimately, you know, I was not 1636 01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:33.000 charged with anything. 1637 01:28:34.119 --> 01:28:35.039 I was given. 1638 01:28:35.600 --> 01:28:37.239 At the end of two months, I was called in 1639 01:28:37.920 --> 01:28:40.520 and you obviously there's four options that could have had. 1640 01:28:40.840 --> 01:28:42.520 One, I could have been charged. 1641 01:28:42.279 --> 01:28:48.439 Criminally, Two I could have been charged under UCMJ, and 1642 01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:51.720 then three is a gomar which is a general officer 1643 01:28:53.199 --> 01:28:56.600 memorandom of reprimand I believe is the correct full term. 1644 01:28:57.119 --> 01:28:59.640 And everybody who knows a gomar that is essentially a 1645 01:28:59.680 --> 01:29:02.119 strong worded the letter that goes into your permanent profile, 1646 01:29:02.359 --> 01:29:05.560 and of course nothing at all Scotch free. Everybody agrees, Hey, 1647 01:29:05.600 --> 01:29:09.800 everyone's good. Unfortunately I'm not that lucky. So I show 1648 01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:13.760 up and I receive a GOMAR, and it's a very 1649 01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:18.520 vaguely worded letter, just basically saying that they were disappointed 1650 01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:22.760 and I used poor judgment when posting on social media, 1651 01:29:23.159 --> 01:29:27.119 and that's basically all it said. So you're allowed to 1652 01:29:27.199 --> 01:29:29.720 do a rebuttal. You have seven days to do a rebuttal. 1653 01:29:30.039 --> 01:29:31.479 But the good thing is is when you're allowed to 1654 01:29:31.479 --> 01:29:33.840 do rebuttal, you are legally allowed to have all the 1655 01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:39.199 investigative documents. So they handed me the documents and I 1656 01:29:39.279 --> 01:29:43.000 have to word this very carefully. When I was given 1657 01:29:43.079 --> 01:29:46.880 the documents by a member of the staff of the brigade. 1658 01:29:46.520 --> 01:29:49.079 Team, I was cautioned. 1659 01:29:50.479 --> 01:29:57.560 On of how severe my response should be or lack thereof, 1660 01:29:58.399 --> 01:30:04.560 and if I was to resist that there would be consequences. 1661 01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:10.239 Retaliation is the word they're avoiding saying, yeah, so yeah, 1662 01:30:10.279 --> 01:30:12.720 there was a lot of implications within this conversation, but 1663 01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:16.199 I knew from my unofficial source that I already knew 1664 01:30:16.239 --> 01:30:18.840 that they were they were if they could grow whatever 1665 01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:21.840 that they were trying to find, they were digging, and 1666 01:30:22.039 --> 01:30:23.199 so I knew at this point. 1667 01:30:23.079 --> 01:30:24.960 Like, what a what a bluff? Right? 1668 01:30:25.279 --> 01:30:27.720 And I told the guy who told me this right, 1669 01:30:27.760 --> 01:30:30.039 who was a member of the staff, and I told 1670 01:30:30.079 --> 01:30:33.640 him very politely. I was like, if they could have, 1671 01:30:34.279 --> 01:30:39.439 they would have. So I went home and I googled, 1672 01:30:40.319 --> 01:30:43.960 because so one majority of the stuff on this document 1673 01:30:44.159 --> 01:30:46.680 was redacted, but you've been in the unit long enough, 1674 01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:49.079 you know the terms. You can you can tell what's 1675 01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:51.680 under the redacted portions, and I could tell that the 1676 01:30:51.760 --> 01:30:55.119 two things that they were upset about was the use 1677 01:30:55.239 --> 01:30:59.680 of one that acknowledging that I was even in the unit, 1678 01:31:01.039 --> 01:31:04.560 which didn't make any sort of sense because I won't 1679 01:31:04.600 --> 01:31:06.439 go too much in it. But when you leave the unit, 1680 01:31:07.039 --> 01:31:11.520 you're actually on your erb. They finally put the existing 1681 01:31:11.960 --> 01:31:13.840 acronym of the unit. 1682 01:31:13.880 --> 01:31:16.159 Right, and you come out of the DASA er and 1683 01:31:16.239 --> 01:31:20.800 everything else exactly, so you're you're allowed to acknowledge that 1684 01:31:20.920 --> 01:31:23.119 you were at an SMU, right, Obviously you don't only 1685 01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:26.239 go any of the details, and you avoid using its current. 1686 01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:28.920 Name or any of the last like five or whatever. 1687 01:31:29.560 --> 01:31:32.399 You know, so you know, but you know, people know enough, right, 1688 01:31:32.520 --> 01:31:35.039 like they know what's in that area, they know like 1689 01:31:35.159 --> 01:31:36.720 you know what unit used to be. You know, they 1690 01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:40.399 generally know what you're talking about. So I go. And 1691 01:31:40.479 --> 01:31:42.880 then the other thing was using the term ISA, which 1692 01:31:43.239 --> 01:31:45.600 surprised me the most because of if you look at 1693 01:31:45.640 --> 01:31:48.439 how much literature there are is out using the term ISA, 1694 01:31:48.520 --> 01:31:48.800 which is. 1695 01:31:48.800 --> 01:31:51.640 Obviously the unit's official original name. 1696 01:31:52.640 --> 01:31:55.840 So I went home and I got on Google, and 1697 01:31:56.039 --> 01:32:00.760 within two minutes I googled members of the BIAS and 1698 01:32:01.279 --> 01:32:07.359 the plethora of profiles that came up one surprive me 1699 01:32:08.359 --> 01:32:09.520 and with the most interesting. 1700 01:32:09.640 --> 01:32:14.880 The top of all these profiles not only was actually 1701 01:32:15.479 --> 01:32:19.199 a guy who is my unit commander while I was there, 1702 01:32:19.960 --> 01:32:24.880 and actually I was I did lead one missions as 1703 01:32:24.920 --> 01:32:27.600 a team leader, and he was actually the un commander 1704 01:32:27.760 --> 01:32:29.760 while I was leading that team, So I actually had 1705 01:32:29.760 --> 01:32:32.000 to do video chats with this guy every single week. 1706 01:32:32.399 --> 01:32:34.279 So for that to be the guy that popped up. 1707 01:32:34.560 --> 01:32:37.239 And then when I opened his Army profile like on 1708 01:32:37.520 --> 01:32:41.000 an Army official website, of all the things, they could 1709 01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:44.079 have said right. It said not only was did he 1710 01:32:44.199 --> 01:32:48.720 attend ISA selection of all the names that could use, 1711 01:32:49.520 --> 01:32:51.920 it also said that he was the commander of ISA. 1712 01:32:52.079 --> 01:32:54.920 And actually right before this interview, I actually looked up 1713 01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:58.239 and verified that it's still up and it not only 1714 01:32:58.319 --> 01:33:00.439 did it verify that he went to isa's election and 1715 01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:02.640 he was the commander of ICE, it gave the exact 1716 01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:03.319 dates that he was. 1717 01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:05.079 He did it right. 1718 01:33:05.560 --> 01:33:09.359 So I put this all in my rebuttal, why is 1719 01:33:09.399 --> 01:33:13.399 it classified when you say it, but not classified when exactly? 1720 01:33:13.680 --> 01:33:13.720 So? 1721 01:33:14.359 --> 01:33:16.640 I have a personal theory about that. 1722 01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:21.079 So if you notice in certain units there is sort 1723 01:33:21.119 --> 01:33:25.159 of a double standard, oh yeah, and you know there's 1724 01:33:25.319 --> 01:33:29.159 various different reasons why certain people, and you know, I 1725 01:33:29.239 --> 01:33:31.159 think it goes back to like you know, and for 1726 01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:33.800 anybody who's been the military long enough, especially in soft 1727 01:33:35.119 --> 01:33:37.720 there is definitely like for example, when it comes to awards, right, 1728 01:33:37.800 --> 01:33:40.640 everybody knows that the higher rank. 1729 01:33:40.520 --> 01:33:43.279 You are usually the higher rewards you get. 1730 01:33:43.520 --> 01:33:46.399 You know, like if if like an E six was 1731 01:33:46.439 --> 01:33:49.079 to do something that could merit a bronze Star, he 1732 01:33:49.239 --> 01:33:50.920 may not get it. He might get an r com 1733 01:33:51.039 --> 01:33:54.479 of the V device, But that major who was sitting 1734 01:33:54.560 --> 01:33:56.600 back at the FOB. Oh he's getting it. He's getting 1735 01:33:56.600 --> 01:33:59.079 a bronze star for sure. Right, And so I feel 1736 01:33:59.119 --> 01:34:01.880 like there is one there's like this good old boys club, 1737 01:34:01.920 --> 01:34:04.520 which there always has been, and then it's a combination 1738 01:34:04.680 --> 01:34:07.840 keeps a certain level of rank that certain people get 1739 01:34:07.840 --> 01:34:11.359 away with these things, like you know, there's been I 1740 01:34:11.439 --> 01:34:14.199 think it's like, at least is my account, there's at 1741 01:34:14.319 --> 01:34:19.640 least four books just specifically about the unit. And I 1742 01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:22.079 actually know personally like two of them who wrote them. 1743 01:34:22.720 --> 01:34:26.159 And uh, you know one of them is now the 1744 01:34:27.640 --> 01:34:33.039 director of counter terrorism or was you mean, I don't 1745 01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:33.560 know if he's still. 1746 01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:37.039 Yeah. 1747 01:34:37.960 --> 01:34:41.279 So, so definitely there was like us. And I also 1748 01:34:41.399 --> 01:34:46.359 knew in the way that I left the units, I 1749 01:34:46.560 --> 01:34:49.479 was not there. There was definitely not the biggest Some 1750 01:34:49.560 --> 01:34:51.279 people were not the biggest fan of me, like and 1751 01:34:51.399 --> 01:34:53.359 I had this innate ability where we talked about earlier. 1752 01:34:53.840 --> 01:34:55.560 Uh you know, I have a face that people want 1753 01:34:55.600 --> 01:35:00.119 to punch, apparently, and uh so, and I've come to 1754 01:35:00.239 --> 01:35:03.119 terms of this, right like people I rub people the 1755 01:35:03.239 --> 01:35:04.600 wrong way for whatever reason. 1756 01:35:04.800 --> 01:35:06.239 There's multiple different reasons. 1757 01:35:06.399 --> 01:35:12.680 It doesn't matter. So so I finished this rebuttal and 1758 01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:14.520 I sent it to my company commander, and I'm proud 1759 01:35:14.560 --> 01:35:17.600 because not only did I find this documentation I had, 1760 01:35:19.479 --> 01:35:23.399 I had all the other u ur als and resources 1761 01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:28.920 that that I had done my duejillises before even started 1762 01:35:28.960 --> 01:35:32.359 the channel. So I gave all the books, all the references, everything, 1763 01:35:32.399 --> 01:35:34.119 put it all on a rebuttal, and I sent it 1764 01:35:34.239 --> 01:35:37.279 to my company commander, and I was really proud of this, 1765 01:35:37.479 --> 01:35:40.399 Like in my mind, there was no way they would 1766 01:35:40.479 --> 01:35:52.399 keep this going on. I my company commander, like, hey, 1767 01:35:52.520 --> 01:35:54.640 did you get the reut and she was like, yes, 1768 01:35:54.840 --> 01:35:57.359 but we need to talk about it because I was 1769 01:35:57.479 --> 01:35:59.600 like really happy to hear what she thought of it. 1770 01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:01.880 So I went in the next day. She takes me 1771 01:36:03.760 --> 01:36:06.640 and she tells me. I was like, ma'am, did you 1772 01:36:06.720 --> 01:36:07.199 like their buddle? 1773 01:36:07.239 --> 01:36:07.800 She's like, I did. 1774 01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:09.560 I thought it was awesome. You did a great job. 1775 01:36:09.880 --> 01:36:13.479 But the brigade commander is furious. I'm like, what do 1776 01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:17.079 you mean. She's like, they're claiming it's spillage. Like, what 1777 01:36:17.159 --> 01:36:19.239 do you mean it's spillage? She's like, because you used 1778 01:36:19.359 --> 01:36:22.720 his name in ISA in the same email. Not only 1779 01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:26.119 did they pissed off about it, they have confiscated mine 1780 01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:34.520 and first Sergeant's computers because and she she was at 1781 01:36:34.560 --> 01:36:36.800 this point, she was completely on my side, and she's 1782 01:36:36.880 --> 01:36:41.199 just like, this whole thing is so ridiculous. And basically 1783 01:36:42.079 --> 01:36:45.479 it was a knee jerk reaction because they were frustrated 1784 01:36:46.039 --> 01:36:50.880 with their inability to charge me. And obviously if it 1785 01:36:51.039 --> 01:36:54.760 had been spillage, they would have charged me immediately and 1786 01:36:54.840 --> 01:36:58.239 obviously after other than me coming again. 1787 01:37:00.159 --> 01:37:00.920 Anything about that. 1788 01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:05.319 It's very hard to charge somebody for spillage. You know, 1789 01:37:05.439 --> 01:37:07.239 if you want to explain that term to folks, I 1790 01:37:07.319 --> 01:37:10.960 mean that means like inadvertent disclosures. 1791 01:37:10.399 --> 01:37:11.840 Right exactly. 1792 01:37:12.199 --> 01:37:16.640 Yeah, And because obviously you can't call it spillage when 1793 01:37:16.680 --> 01:37:20.479 it's on an Army official website. Yes, exactly, it would 1794 01:37:20.520 --> 01:37:22.720 have been one thing if they had not then and 1795 01:37:22.840 --> 01:37:27.279 then I took this information putting together, and that's that's spillage, 1796 01:37:27.279 --> 01:37:30.239 because then I put two things together which other people wouldn't. 1797 01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:32.159 But it was on an Army official website, So that's 1798 01:37:32.159 --> 01:37:34.800 why it wasn't spillage. But they were just so upset 1799 01:37:35.239 --> 01:37:37.319 and they may not have known and like may have 1800 01:37:37.520 --> 01:37:40.199 like to them, they're like, oh my god, you haven't 1801 01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:43.119 this guy's naming a commander. And even though it's said 1802 01:37:43.119 --> 01:37:45.359 where I found it. They may you know, I'll give 1803 01:37:45.399 --> 01:37:48.399 them the benefit of doubt because this particular company, this 1804 01:37:48.479 --> 01:37:51.079 brigade commander was not he's not from an SMU. 1805 01:37:51.199 --> 01:37:54.760 He may not know, but that was their knee jerk reaction. 1806 01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:57.800 They literally confiscated, as far as I know, it destroyed 1807 01:37:57.840 --> 01:38:00.800 those computers just because they opened the email on those computers. 1808 01:38:01.399 --> 01:38:05.760 And yeah, so I left, and you know, I never 1809 01:38:05.840 --> 01:38:11.199 heard anything else about behind that and then but that 1810 01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:13.720 was not quite the end of that. So I was 1811 01:38:13.760 --> 01:38:17.239 given permission to start posting again. And this happened around 1812 01:38:17.279 --> 01:38:22.079 October first. So prior to the investigation, I actually had 1813 01:38:22.119 --> 01:38:24.960 a good relationship with the senior command at the unit, 1814 01:38:25.720 --> 01:38:30.720 and I knew that there was a pending family financial 1815 01:38:30.760 --> 01:38:33.439 issue that was going to come probably around November December, 1816 01:38:33.640 --> 01:38:37.840 and my original retirement date was November first, So I 1817 01:38:38.039 --> 01:38:39.880 reached out to them and I was like, hey, can 1818 01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:41.439 I extend it four months just to get on the 1819 01:38:41.479 --> 01:38:42.279 backside of the holidays? 1820 01:38:42.319 --> 01:38:43.279 Can I go to February first? 1821 01:38:43.319 --> 01:38:45.319 And they're like, absolutely, no problem because all it does 1822 01:38:45.399 --> 01:38:48.159 is requires your brigade commander's decision. And everybody told me, 1823 01:38:48.239 --> 01:38:50.920 we're cool. So this happened about two weeks prior to 1824 01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:54.119 the investigation, and then when the investigation and when they 1825 01:38:54.479 --> 01:38:56.119 you know, they hand me the sheet. I was actually 1826 01:38:56.199 --> 01:38:58.119 very confident. I actually originally laughed when they gave me 1827 01:38:58.239 --> 01:39:00.279 the document. And my company C was like, aren't you 1828 01:39:00.319 --> 01:39:02.680 worried about this? I was like no, man, I was like, like, 1829 01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:05.760 I knew that there was a possibility this might happen, 1830 01:39:05.800 --> 01:39:06.720 but I did my due diligence. 1831 01:39:06.720 --> 01:39:07.600 I know, I haven't talke about anying. 1832 01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:10.159 Classic We're good, and they tell me at that meaning 1833 01:39:10.279 --> 01:39:13.039 that they're going to sit on my extension until the investigation. 1834 01:39:13.119 --> 01:39:16.199 Once the investigation's done, they're cool, they'll send it up. 1835 01:39:16.239 --> 01:39:21.039 Everything's great. So the investigation that finishes around around October first, 1836 01:39:21.880 --> 01:39:25.720 and they, through multiple different people, they lead me to 1837 01:39:25.880 --> 01:39:29.960 believe that like it's going up, it's going to get signed. 1838 01:39:31.079 --> 01:39:34.760 It wasn't until about a week prior. Because anybody who 1839 01:39:34.840 --> 01:39:39.039 retires know that usually between your terminal leave, usually get 1840 01:39:39.039 --> 01:39:41.640 at least a month of like free time away from 1841 01:39:41.720 --> 01:39:46.880 work right when you retire, and I find out a 1842 01:39:46.960 --> 01:39:49.079 week and I'm not ready to retire. I think I'm 1843 01:39:49.119 --> 01:39:53.199 retiring March or February first, because I've been told multiple 1844 01:39:53.199 --> 01:39:56.079 ocasions and they're like, oh, by the way, we're not 1845 01:39:56.159 --> 01:39:57.319 signing your thing. 1846 01:39:57.479 --> 01:39:58.399 You retire in a week. 1847 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:01.199 It's totally nuts. 1848 01:40:02.760 --> 01:40:06.760 And I was like, oh my god, like, you've got 1849 01:40:06.880 --> 01:40:08.840 to be kidding they And then I tried. And even 1850 01:40:08.920 --> 01:40:11.560 the civilian who was actually who did my final out processing, 1851 01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:15.439 he tried until the day of like he actually told 1852 01:40:15.479 --> 01:40:17.560 them on the day I was supposed to my final out, 1853 01:40:17.880 --> 01:40:19.920 he actually told me. He's like, and he's told he 1854 01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:22.880 told my command. He's like, if you sign this this morning, 1855 01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:25.319 He's like, I have even though it was the government 1856 01:40:25.439 --> 01:40:27.439 checked out. He's like, I know the guy who proves this. 1857 01:40:27.640 --> 01:40:30.359 I'll have that approved by lunch and you'll and you'll 1858 01:40:30.479 --> 01:40:32.640 he'll be extended at February first they refused. 1859 01:40:33.640 --> 01:40:33.920 Wow. 1860 01:40:34.279 --> 01:40:38.239 And then my company commander, to her credit, she did. 1861 01:40:38.319 --> 01:40:40.840 She's like, she told me. She's like, she called me 1862 01:40:41.000 --> 01:40:43.680 right after I did my final at She's like, we 1863 01:40:43.800 --> 01:40:47.239 failed you. Well, what happened here was not right. We 1864 01:40:47.359 --> 01:40:49.560 failed you as an organization. And she's like, it's going 1865 01:40:49.680 --> 01:40:53.479 in my AAR or whatever her or her command climate 1866 01:40:53.520 --> 01:40:55.359 survey that she's gonna do that year she was a reporter. 1867 01:40:55.520 --> 01:40:58.239 Whether she did or not, you know, I don't actually know. 1868 01:40:58.279 --> 01:40:59.720 It doesn't matter anymore. 1869 01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:01.439 I was big of her to at least call you 1870 01:41:01.560 --> 01:41:02.000 and tell. 1871 01:41:01.880 --> 01:41:04.680 You that, yeah, which I appreciated. 1872 01:41:04.960 --> 01:41:08.720 Yeah, yeah, definitely, Joe. I think we got a couple 1873 01:41:08.720 --> 01:41:15.079 of questions from the Patreon folks for you t those up. 1874 01:41:15.239 --> 01:41:17.960 I thought, you know, when I called you up about 1875 01:41:18.039 --> 01:41:20.560 doing this interview, I mean I think I said something like, 1876 01:41:20.920 --> 01:41:23.520 you know, Joe, if you're not incarcerated right now, I'd 1877 01:41:23.560 --> 01:41:26.279 love to do this interview. And if you if you are, 1878 01:41:26.359 --> 01:41:28.640 we can do it from prison. You know, there's a possibility. 1879 01:41:29.920 --> 01:41:31.520 Yeah, it would probably get better views. 1880 01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:32.439 To be honest, it's. 1881 01:41:32.399 --> 01:41:35.680 It's it's kind of a shame you in the hamburglar 1882 01:41:35.760 --> 01:41:37.479 outfit with the black and white stripes. 1883 01:41:37.560 --> 01:41:41.520 Yeah, so yeah, go ahead. 1884 01:41:42.159 --> 01:41:43.840 What do we got d all right, we got one 1885 01:41:43.840 --> 01:41:47.000 from j J. What do people get wrong about TFO? 1886 01:41:49.880 --> 01:41:51.960 So I would say that one of the things that 1887 01:41:52.039 --> 01:41:56.239 people is that the because obviously their original job was 1888 01:41:56.359 --> 01:42:04.640 to support green and blue right, but and obviously they 1889 01:42:04.720 --> 01:42:07.600 started as you know, the army's version of the CIA, 1890 01:42:07.680 --> 01:42:10.399 because mostly it was a human organization, and granted it 1891 01:42:10.520 --> 01:42:12.920 was I think it was eighties when Colonel Jerry King 1892 01:42:13.079 --> 01:42:15.279 created it thing. It was like eighty or eighty one 1893 01:42:15.279 --> 01:42:19.640 when he created it. Yes, and at that time, sing 1894 01:42:19.720 --> 01:42:21.319 it wasn't really much of a thing like singing. It 1895 01:42:21.439 --> 01:42:25.920 was just ringing heeos. Right, and then when and then 1896 01:42:25.960 --> 01:42:29.359 when the unit really started to like make its business, 1897 01:42:29.520 --> 01:42:34.479 like make money like they were the pioneers, especially like 1898 01:42:34.640 --> 01:42:37.439 they the SIGT crushed and so they became this like 1899 01:42:38.239 --> 01:42:42.920 full intelligence spectrum organization and they became so successful, which 1900 01:42:43.000 --> 01:42:45.199 is one of the reasons that they started doing their 1901 01:42:45.239 --> 01:42:49.840 own operations and now they're more of a The niche 1902 01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:52.960 that they have tried to find is one because Green 1903 01:42:53.039 --> 01:42:55.760 and Blue really doesn't don't need them any that they 1904 01:42:55.840 --> 01:43:02.319 are this like this multi theater like world level intelligence organization. 1905 01:43:02.960 --> 01:43:04.680 That that's what they try to be as like their 1906 01:43:04.720 --> 01:43:07.159 own they run their own independent operations. 1907 01:43:07.800 --> 01:43:07.920 Uh. 1908 01:43:08.239 --> 01:43:10.520 You know, if they can give intel back to the 1909 01:43:10.600 --> 01:43:14.039 Greater Jaysa community, they can, but they are a lot 1910 01:43:14.119 --> 01:43:15.520 they're very independent. 1911 01:43:16.359 --> 01:43:20.239 Uh nowadays, and I think we got one more yep. 1912 01:43:21.279 --> 01:43:24.640 How have you seen the operation operational preparation of the 1913 01:43:24.800 --> 01:43:26.239 environment change over time? 1914 01:43:30.079 --> 01:43:31.760 Think I lost you? I'm sorry. 1915 01:43:32.199 --> 01:43:36.039 How have you seen operational preparation of the environment change 1916 01:43:36.079 --> 01:43:36.600 over time? 1917 01:43:39.479 --> 01:43:40.880 Okay, operational prep. 1918 01:43:41.479 --> 01:43:45.079 So it has definitely changed, and it has definitely changed 1919 01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:50.359 with technology. So and I can go for this for 1920 01:43:50.399 --> 01:43:54.159 a couple of different ways. So from a tactical side 1921 01:43:54.199 --> 01:44:01.720 of things, right obviously implementing drones and other things like that, 1922 01:44:02.079 --> 01:44:08.800 and also from a force protection as our abilities to 1923 01:44:09.039 --> 01:44:12.640 conduct force protection, like just on the singate side of 1924 01:44:12.720 --> 01:44:18.319 things became very limited as technology increased and our ability 1925 01:44:20.079 --> 01:44:24.920 like for example, I eventually in the unit, I went 1926 01:44:25.079 --> 01:44:28.760 back to Iraq like later on during the ISIS invasion, 1927 01:44:29.640 --> 01:44:31.560 and it was one of the first Americans back in 1928 01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:38.640 and what we were doing six years prior, we couldn't 1929 01:44:38.640 --> 01:44:41.600 even do a fraction of what we were doing there, 1930 01:44:41.680 --> 01:44:43.920 and so we had to come up. Literally one of 1931 01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:46.079 the things that I did is I actuallyt up getting 1932 01:44:46.079 --> 01:44:49.760 awarth this. I actually helped create a new piece of 1933 01:44:49.840 --> 01:44:54.119 equipment that the NSA ended up manufacturing. 1934 01:44:55.600 --> 01:44:58.079 For that particular mission. 1935 01:44:58.920 --> 01:45:02.720 So and then and the combination of us doing SIGAN 1936 01:45:02.760 --> 01:45:05.439 and also combining clan skills in the human side of things, 1937 01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:13.159 which then technology from an ALIAS standpoint of view, you know, 1938 01:45:13.960 --> 01:45:18.880 biometrics started to change things. And you had ancestry dot Com, 1939 01:45:19.079 --> 01:45:21.680 you had twenty three to meter which are obviously explicitly 1940 01:45:21.880 --> 01:45:22.399 told not. 1941 01:45:22.600 --> 01:45:24.039 To do for obvious reasons. 1942 01:45:24.760 --> 01:45:28.119 And so it changed the way that we looked at 1943 01:45:28.199 --> 01:45:30.600 the world and the way that we could do operations 1944 01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:34.359 because it just it wasn't the old school like eighties 1945 01:45:34.399 --> 01:45:37.039 and nineties. We had to incorporate the technology and then 1946 01:45:37.159 --> 01:45:40.760 everything was becoming so digital but also in such small 1947 01:45:40.880 --> 01:45:44.560 form factors that you couldn't even detect when people were 1948 01:45:44.800 --> 01:45:48.319 using particular technology and you had like R five days 1949 01:45:49.439 --> 01:45:52.800 sniffers and then you know, everybody's heard of a Faraday cage, right, 1950 01:45:53.159 --> 01:45:55.800 we basically started in cases we were like iron men, 1951 01:45:56.159 --> 01:45:59.760 like completely encased in Faraday cages of like everything that 1952 01:45:59.840 --> 01:46:03.880 you could protect, and you know, we literally had to 1953 01:46:04.319 --> 01:46:07.119 create SOPs, which I think was one of the cool 1954 01:46:07.159 --> 01:46:10.199 things because we were on the cutting edge of like 1955 01:46:10.399 --> 01:46:13.399 these intelligent operations and we did have especially when I 1956 01:46:13.479 --> 01:46:16.119 was there, we had such a good relationship with the agency, 1957 01:46:16.960 --> 01:46:18.680 And one of the things that we ended up doing 1958 01:46:18.840 --> 01:46:20.840 and why we had such a close relationship with the 1959 01:46:20.880 --> 01:46:26.159 agency is if anybody understands the different types of authorities 1960 01:46:26.520 --> 01:46:30.199 like Title ten, Title forty, one of the reasons we 1961 01:46:30.319 --> 01:46:34.039 started running and gunning with them was because we fall 1962 01:46:34.079 --> 01:46:39.279 in our DoD they don't, and in certain situations there 1963 01:46:39.319 --> 01:46:43.119 were loopholes where we could do things that they couldn't 1964 01:46:43.560 --> 01:46:45.640 and vice versa. So we found that there was this 1965 01:46:45.840 --> 01:46:51.039 scandem relationship that we could find loopholes between the two organizations, 1966 01:46:51.079 --> 01:46:52.640 and so we actually built a really good so I 1967 01:46:52.800 --> 01:46:56.159 actually spent a lot of time in CISAA spaces and 1968 01:46:56.279 --> 01:46:59.239 a lot of different embassies throughout the world, which, to 1969 01:46:59.319 --> 01:47:03.039 be honest, those were some of outside of the tactle stuff, 1970 01:47:03.119 --> 01:47:04.159 some of my favorite missions. 1971 01:47:05.399 --> 01:47:07.560 Yeah, I SA is an interesting unit in the sense 1972 01:47:07.640 --> 01:47:12.159 that you guys can conduct covert operations, clandestine operations or 1973 01:47:12.279 --> 01:47:15.680 just normal overt military operations. Yeah, I don't. I don't 1974 01:47:15.680 --> 01:47:16.720 think there are too many people that. 1975 01:47:16.760 --> 01:47:17.119 Can do that. 1976 01:47:18.520 --> 01:47:20.840 No, there's not. And I think that's, uh, you know, 1977 01:47:20.960 --> 01:47:23.239 one of the things that people confuse, like they think 1978 01:47:23.760 --> 01:47:28.239 r RC and ISA are very similar organizations, and then 1979 01:47:28.359 --> 01:47:32.319 that's like the big difference is one you know, I 1980 01:47:32.439 --> 01:47:36.079 don't think RC is nearly close to the size as 1981 01:47:36.159 --> 01:47:40.479 ISA is and has the reach, but also the clan 1982 01:47:40.680 --> 01:47:44.079 side of things and the covert side of things is 1983 01:47:44.239 --> 01:47:48.399 like where we separate and we do that. RRC doesn't 1984 01:47:48.439 --> 01:47:51.560 really do that much of And actually, I will say 1985 01:47:51.600 --> 01:47:56.479 this we did. I never operationally worked for the RC, 1986 01:47:57.039 --> 01:48:00.600 but I did a number of training exercises with RRC 1987 01:48:00.840 --> 01:48:03.359 from the Tackle Attachment, and I want to say they 1988 01:48:03.399 --> 01:48:05.880 are some of the most professional guys outside of CAG. 1989 01:48:06.159 --> 01:48:09.079 I would say that r RC is probably one of 1990 01:48:09.119 --> 01:48:11.079 the most professional organizations I've ever worked with. 1991 01:48:11.520 --> 01:48:12.600 Yeah, they're wired type. 1992 01:48:13.960 --> 01:48:17.640 Yeah, there's just something about Rangers in general that I 1993 01:48:17.800 --> 01:48:21.319 just think, like my advice to anybody, you want to 1994 01:48:21.359 --> 01:48:23.079 go to Delta, don't. 1995 01:48:23.159 --> 01:48:25.119 I would say, go to Ranger and then go to Delta. 1996 01:48:25.239 --> 01:48:26.439 Like if you want to go to a staff, cool, 1997 01:48:26.479 --> 01:48:29.680 But like I think you learn the greatest skills that 1998 01:48:29.800 --> 01:48:31.279 you need to go to Delta from. 1999 01:48:31.199 --> 01:48:31.800 The range of bed. 2000 01:48:31.880 --> 01:48:35.640 Yeah, man, no, range of Battalion's awesome. We got one more. 2001 01:48:35.840 --> 01:48:36.359 It's funny. 2002 01:48:36.439 --> 01:48:40.239 It was a question about ISA and r RC interfacing 2003 01:48:40.359 --> 01:48:42.359 and you literally just answered it, just answered it. 2004 01:48:42.439 --> 01:48:47.199 Okay, Yeah, Yeah, So we definitely interfaced on the tactical 2005 01:48:47.279 --> 01:48:51.359 side of things, which you know we did. We did 2006 01:48:51.439 --> 01:48:53.399 a number of free fall jumps together, We did a 2007 01:48:53.439 --> 01:48:57.199 couple of different they were all training exercises, but yeah, 2008 01:48:57.239 --> 01:49:02.000 they are definitely a very perfect national organization. You know, 2009 01:49:02.279 --> 01:49:06.640 when you operate with Blue and Green look and I 2010 01:49:06.680 --> 01:49:08.239 don't want to throw any of it out of the bus, 2011 01:49:08.399 --> 01:49:11.840 but especially when you deal with Blue, right, I will 2012 01:49:11.880 --> 01:49:14.800 put it this way. I went to so I got 2013 01:49:14.840 --> 01:49:17.119 to Obviously I worked with them and I was on 2014 01:49:17.159 --> 01:49:19.520 their jort cycle, but the most the first time I 2015 01:49:19.640 --> 01:49:21.960 worked with them was actually in free fall dumb Master 2016 01:49:22.119 --> 01:49:26.319 course and in Freefall jumb Master there one so they 2017 01:49:26.359 --> 01:49:30.880 actually don't so both Green and Blue don't send their 2018 01:49:32.039 --> 01:49:34.880 so they're singing and guys are support guys, right, So 2019 01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:39.239 they don't go to free like like our sing and 2020 01:49:39.279 --> 01:49:42.319 guys are actual like operatives, like they're not support side, right, 2021 01:49:42.359 --> 01:49:45.319 So that's one of the biggest differences. And when you 2022 01:49:45.600 --> 01:49:46.479 when you show up there. 2023 01:49:46.960 --> 01:49:47.439 When I went to. 2024 01:49:47.479 --> 01:49:50.319 Freefall jumb Master, obviously there's there's singing guys never get 2025 01:49:50.359 --> 01:49:53.520 to go to free fall. So I'm there, and the 2026 01:49:53.960 --> 01:49:58.159 free fall course is you got the frogmen are your psalters, right, 2027 01:49:58.680 --> 01:50:01.680 and then you got your boat guys. And I have 2028 01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:06.960 never seen like two groups of people who hate each 2029 01:50:07.000 --> 01:50:11.520 other more than frogmen and boat guys. Literally, I went there. 2030 01:50:11.800 --> 01:50:15.039 I was the only ISA student during this course, and 2031 01:50:15.239 --> 01:50:18.079 we brought one of my mentors who was actually he 2032 01:50:18.199 --> 01:50:20.359 was an instructor, so we actually helped instruct the course. 2033 01:50:21.159 --> 01:50:24.960 We literally just sat there and we watched these two 2034 01:50:25.680 --> 01:50:28.800 just basically rip each other in half like we're doing 2035 01:50:29.000 --> 01:50:31.880 like jmpis and these guys are calling each other like 2036 01:50:32.079 --> 01:50:37.119 almost going to blows on a daily basis, and dude, 2037 01:50:37.800 --> 01:50:40.479 and the boat guys just hate the frogmen like that 2038 01:50:40.640 --> 01:50:45.680 was my experience. And then the support guys there were 2039 01:50:45.880 --> 01:50:49.479 just like they lived in fear from their assaulters. And 2040 01:50:49.560 --> 01:50:51.720 then you go to Green and you're like, these dudes 2041 01:50:51.720 --> 01:50:54.079 are my best friends, Like they love these guys, right, 2042 01:50:54.279 --> 01:50:57.319 So yeah, it was a very interesting. 2043 01:50:57.680 --> 01:51:00.119 And then how did the bros compare to that? 2044 01:51:01.880 --> 01:51:05.319 They were very similar to CAG, Like they definitely were like, 2045 01:51:05.880 --> 01:51:09.279 these guys are enablers, right, and especially when they started 2046 01:51:09.399 --> 01:51:13.039 going to especially a CAG when they started going to 2047 01:51:13.079 --> 01:51:15.920 the intelligence squadron. Because you will hear this a lot, 2048 01:51:16.039 --> 01:51:19.680 especially from a singin, right, and it's like parful the course, 2049 01:51:19.800 --> 01:51:22.640 especially from eighteen alpha's. You'll have an eighteen alpha will 2050 01:51:22.680 --> 01:51:25.119 come up to you and be like, hey, can you 2051 01:51:25.960 --> 01:51:29.520 do this wizardry right and be like, sir, that's not 2052 01:51:29.720 --> 01:51:32.399 how RF energy works, right, you have to explained it 2053 01:51:32.479 --> 01:51:35.479 to them, like that's not how any of this works. Right. 2054 01:51:35.960 --> 01:51:38.319 And then when you started having the cag assaulters go 2055 01:51:38.560 --> 01:51:41.079 and they start learning, you know, they learn human they 2056 01:51:41.159 --> 01:51:45.800 learned singing, they learn everything, ohcent, you know, computer stuff. 2057 01:51:46.560 --> 01:51:48.279 And then when they start going and they go back 2058 01:51:48.279 --> 01:51:51.399 to the teams and now they're working along their sick 2059 01:51:51.600 --> 01:51:55.079 guys and they're like, oh, I understand how the machine works, 2060 01:51:55.119 --> 01:52:00.159 and they understand its limitations. So their true commanders, we're 2061 01:52:00.199 --> 01:52:04.119 no longer giving these ridiculous requests like hey, could you 2062 01:52:04.279 --> 01:52:08.319 hit the satellites beam it down and then get you know, 2063 01:52:08.560 --> 01:52:10.840 all this stuff and his wife's stuff, and then you know, 2064 01:52:10.920 --> 01:52:13.359 get me some you know, all these different things like no, sir, 2065 01:52:13.439 --> 01:52:14.880 I can't do that, and then you know, and so 2066 01:52:15.159 --> 01:52:20.159 just they just developed this really good professional relationship and 2067 01:52:20.199 --> 01:52:27.840 they really they really started to appreciate their support guys. 2068 01:52:27.920 --> 01:52:30.279 And they they appreciate all their support guys. They treat 2069 01:52:30.319 --> 01:52:32.560 them so well, like as far as any organization I've 2070 01:52:32.600 --> 01:52:33.000 ever seen. 2071 01:52:34.239 --> 01:52:36.920 So you had a pretty wild ride there in the military, 2072 01:52:37.159 --> 01:52:41.279 especially on the exit out. Now you're recently retired. Tell 2073 01:52:41.359 --> 01:52:43.479 us a little bit about where you're at today, what 2074 01:52:43.640 --> 01:52:45.960 you're doing, what you'd like to do in the near future. 2075 01:52:47.600 --> 01:52:49.239 So I have a couple of different things that I'm 2076 01:52:49.279 --> 01:52:55.600 doing so right now, I really think that my purpose 2077 01:52:56.640 --> 01:53:01.760 is to help other people, Like my goal of my 2078 01:53:01.840 --> 01:53:05.239 YouTube channel is to add value to people's lives. For example, 2079 01:53:05.279 --> 01:53:09.760 when I released this video about this investigation, the whole 2080 01:53:09.880 --> 01:53:13.560 final third of it is what good leadership looks like? Right? 2081 01:53:13.640 --> 01:53:17.359 Because I can sit here and complain all day about what, 2082 01:53:18.399 --> 01:53:21.000 you know, what they did whatever, I don't care, like, 2083 01:53:21.119 --> 01:53:24.560 if anything, another life lessons, another story that I get 2084 01:53:24.600 --> 01:53:27.439 to tell, like these guys made me a stronger person 2085 01:53:27.560 --> 01:53:30.159 because of it, right, and makes good content. 2086 01:53:30.279 --> 01:53:32.319 You know, video is not doing too shabby. 2087 01:53:32.800 --> 01:53:37.479 So but I would be remiss if I didn't show 2088 01:53:37.640 --> 01:53:40.920 people what good leadership is, right, because why do we 2089 01:53:41.039 --> 01:53:43.920 have talk to leadership because those people were never showed, 2090 01:53:44.439 --> 01:53:48.239 were never demonstrated by their leaders what good leadership looks like. 2091 01:53:48.399 --> 01:53:48.520 Right. 2092 01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:54.279 So every video that I make is did I add value? 2093 01:53:54.359 --> 01:53:56.199 That is the thing that I ask myself in every 2094 01:53:56.239 --> 01:53:58.520 single video, Am I adding values to my life? Right? 2095 01:53:58.760 --> 01:54:00.920 And then I also from the mental I stay away 2096 01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:03.800 from how many views like vide I don't care if 2097 01:54:03.840 --> 01:54:06.720 someone comes back. It was single comment like, hey, this 2098 01:54:06.840 --> 01:54:09.560 helped me. That video is worth it, Like that's all 2099 01:54:09.600 --> 01:54:13.159 that matters to me, right, And I feel like it's 2100 01:54:13.239 --> 01:54:15.239 like my calling because you know, I'm able to break 2101 01:54:15.359 --> 01:54:20.319 these things down. I'm a critical thinker and I have 2102 01:54:20.399 --> 01:54:22.680 an ability to, especially when it comes to things that 2103 01:54:22.720 --> 01:54:27.039 are geopolitical, to look at them from a strict history 2104 01:54:27.159 --> 01:54:30.960 point of view without going into the political. Like I 2105 01:54:31.039 --> 01:54:33.560 just released the videobout Understanding Somalia, and I was able 2106 01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:38.000 to do it explain why their culture has sort of 2107 01:54:38.279 --> 01:54:45.520 embraced anarchy, yes, and fraud and scamp without going into 2108 01:54:45.560 --> 01:54:48.720 sort of a political thing, right. And I'm a subject 2109 01:54:48.760 --> 01:54:50.760 matter expert when actually specially when it comes to Iran 2110 01:54:50.840 --> 01:54:53.279 and I speak Farsi. So my next video that I'm 2111 01:54:53.279 --> 01:54:56.119 actually doing is Understanding Iran, but in the same format. 2112 01:54:56.239 --> 01:54:58.319 And almost all the comments that I got from that 2113 01:54:58.399 --> 01:55:00.399 video was like, hey, you really broke this down. I 2114 01:55:00.520 --> 01:55:05.640 really appreciate. So I'm putting my full Orkit focus right 2115 01:55:05.680 --> 01:55:08.560 now into this. I am also at the same time, 2116 01:55:08.840 --> 01:55:12.760 I am randomly I am actually studying to become a 2117 01:55:12.840 --> 01:55:15.800 private wealth advisor. If essentially, if this doesn't work out. 2118 01:55:16.479 --> 01:55:18.399 That's all I'm in the process of studying for my 2119 01:55:18.520 --> 01:55:19.720 series sixty. 2120 01:55:19.479 --> 01:55:20.079 Six right now. 2121 01:55:20.960 --> 01:55:25.079 Is that like you manage like a wealth fund for 2122 01:55:25.159 --> 01:55:26.000 a wealthy family. 2123 01:55:27.239 --> 01:55:27.479 Yes. 2124 01:55:27.840 --> 01:55:30.319 So the difference and I obviously I didn't know this 2125 01:55:30.439 --> 01:55:32.640 until one of my friends got me into this is 2126 01:55:32.720 --> 01:55:36.199 there's when people think of like wealth advisors. 2127 01:55:36.279 --> 01:55:36.399 Right. 2128 01:55:36.840 --> 01:55:39.560 Most people fall under what's called known as core wealth 2129 01:55:40.199 --> 01:55:43.079 and then private wealth depending on the area. There's a 2130 01:55:43.199 --> 01:55:46.800 minimum amount in an account in most places in the 2131 01:55:46.880 --> 01:55:49.199 United States, at a minimum five million dollars, but if 2132 01:55:49.199 --> 01:55:50.960 you go to like New York, it could be like 2133 01:55:51.039 --> 01:55:53.760 twenty thirty three has to be in that account to 2134 01:55:53.840 --> 01:55:57.960 be considered private wealth. So, but the interesting thing about 2135 01:55:58.000 --> 01:56:01.079 it is it's because almost everybody who is in private wealth, 2136 01:56:01.399 --> 01:56:05.680 their money has been in private wealth. Like they'd have brokers, right, 2137 01:56:06.119 --> 01:56:11.479 so you make money off of oh, like essentially annuities, 2138 01:56:11.520 --> 01:56:13.279 like you manage their money, you get one percent, right, 2139 01:56:13.479 --> 01:56:18.000 But these people private wealth, These people already have wealth advisors, right, 2140 01:56:18.319 --> 01:56:20.199 So what ends up becoming which is the difference with 2141 01:56:20.239 --> 01:56:20.560 core wealth. 2142 01:56:20.600 --> 01:56:21.520 It's a sales job. 2143 01:56:22.039 --> 01:56:23.880 So the first couple of years you join a team, 2144 01:56:24.239 --> 01:56:26.760 and then your first job is just to go get accounts, 2145 01:56:26.960 --> 01:56:29.079 and you have to go get them from other people 2146 01:56:29.159 --> 01:56:31.359 who already have wealth advisors. So it's a sales job. 2147 01:56:31.920 --> 01:56:33.760 And they structure it like if you do if you 2148 01:56:33.920 --> 01:56:35.680 end up getting a job through let's just say you're 2149 01:56:35.920 --> 01:56:39.439 a broker through like Morgan Stanley, they structure it that 2150 01:56:39.600 --> 01:56:41.840 the first year they pay you a salary, but then 2151 01:56:42.079 --> 01:56:45.279 after the second year, your salary goes away and because 2152 01:56:45.279 --> 01:56:47.560 they want is like so it's like a doggy dog world. 2153 01:56:47.560 --> 01:56:48.760 I almost think of it as like it's like the 2154 01:56:48.880 --> 01:56:51.520 tier one of private wealth management because if you don't 2155 01:56:51.560 --> 01:56:54.560 make it, like you, if you don't have those sales skills, 2156 01:56:54.800 --> 01:56:56.399 you're not going to make it. And so they design 2157 01:56:56.479 --> 01:57:00.359 it to weed people out, which I find fascinating. So 2158 01:57:00.520 --> 01:57:04.039 it's like it's definitely the hardest of all, but if 2159 01:57:04.079 --> 01:57:06.880 you are able to make it. Every private wealth advisor 2160 01:57:06.920 --> 01:57:09.079 that I know, and I know a bunch in loud 2161 01:57:09.119 --> 01:57:11.520 in the county, which is of course country out here 2162 01:57:11.560 --> 01:57:13.920 in Virginia, which is randomly the richest country in the 2163 01:57:14.199 --> 01:57:17.239 richest county in the United States, all the guys who 2164 01:57:17.279 --> 01:57:22.760 are private wealth advisors have the best work life balance ratio. 2165 01:57:22.960 --> 01:57:24.880 These guys make money they work like two hours a 2166 01:57:25.000 --> 01:57:27.079 day and then all they do is whatever they want. 2167 01:57:27.239 --> 01:57:27.840 It's awesome. 2168 01:57:28.199 --> 01:57:32.399 So tell folks out there listening where they can find 2169 01:57:32.439 --> 01:57:34.800 you on YouTube, where they can find you on social media. 2170 01:57:36.319 --> 01:57:43.000 Yeah, so my YouTube channel is the Stoic Viking. The 2171 01:57:43.600 --> 01:57:47.079 Instagram like it's also the Stoic Viking. I think it's 2172 01:57:47.159 --> 01:57:53.199 the Stoic Viking twenty twenty five. And so basically that's 2173 01:57:53.239 --> 01:57:56.359 where I pushed majority of content YouTube is, Like, my 2174 01:57:57.520 --> 01:58:00.720 main goal is long form content because they I'm allowed to. 2175 01:58:01.000 --> 01:58:03.920 I have the ability to talk about things in the 2176 01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:05.880 long form, which I feel like those are the issues 2177 01:58:05.920 --> 01:58:12.000 that need to be talked about, whether it's mental health, fitness, health, nutrition, 2178 01:58:13.319 --> 01:58:16.840 just overall philosophy going into life, how to deal with 2179 01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:19.439 the hardships of life, grief, all these different things. I 2180 01:58:19.479 --> 01:58:21.119 want to talk about the things that nobody wants to 2181 01:58:21.199 --> 01:58:24.399 talk about and give a guys at avenue and also 2182 01:58:24.520 --> 01:58:28.239 create a community where people are positive. Like one thing 2183 01:58:28.319 --> 01:58:30.039 that you're never going to see me do, I'm never 2184 01:58:30.079 --> 01:58:32.600 going to get involved in vento drama. Even if someone 2185 01:58:32.720 --> 01:58:35.000 calls me out for claiming I did or did not something, 2186 01:58:35.479 --> 01:58:37.760 I'm not responding. I don't care you do, you bro, 2187 01:58:38.159 --> 01:58:40.920 we're over here. I and honestly, in any of my lives, 2188 01:58:41.039 --> 01:58:43.680 if I hear anybody start talking about about somebody else, 2189 01:58:44.239 --> 01:58:46.239 I give them one warning. If not, they're kicked out. 2190 01:58:46.279 --> 01:58:49.880 Because that's weird about positivity. If we call out a problem, 2191 01:58:50.199 --> 01:58:53.159 we're creating a solution. We're talking about it, right, because 2192 01:58:53.199 --> 01:58:54.680 the only way you get a rid of a problem 2193 01:58:54.800 --> 01:58:59.159 like toxic leadership is we ourselves have to promote what 2194 01:58:59.359 --> 01:59:01.760 good leadership it looks like. Because that's the only way 2195 01:59:01.800 --> 01:59:03.800 this ever is gonna change. It's gonna change overnight. No, 2196 01:59:04.239 --> 01:59:05.920 but all we can do is do the right thing, 2197 01:59:06.319 --> 01:59:09.079 be the better person, and all together that's how we 2198 01:59:09.119 --> 01:59:11.159 make this this life a better world and how we 2199 01:59:11.279 --> 01:59:11.600 found it. 2200 01:59:13.039 --> 01:59:15.159 Joe, before we get going tonight, is there anything else 2201 01:59:15.199 --> 01:59:17.000 you'd like to say? Is there any other topics we 2202 01:59:17.479 --> 01:59:19.399 haven't covered that you'd like to hash out? 2203 01:59:21.039 --> 01:59:24.239 Ah, yeah, that's a good question. I'll probably think of 2204 01:59:24.319 --> 01:59:27.640 something like two minutes after we we hang up. 2205 01:59:28.760 --> 01:59:30.760 It's okay, we can. We can do it again sometime 2206 01:59:30.840 --> 01:59:34.279 if you want. And well, also for our listeners, we'll 2207 01:59:34.319 --> 01:59:37.119 have links down the description to all of Joe's social 2208 01:59:37.199 --> 01:59:39.000 media and YouTube and all that other stuff. You'll be 2209 01:59:39.039 --> 01:59:39.960 able to find it down there. 2210 01:59:41.479 --> 01:59:43.720 Absolutely, and once again I appreciate it. 2211 01:59:44.039 --> 01:59:46.880 It's been an honor and you are officially my first 2212 01:59:46.960 --> 01:59:50.520 podcast since I started this whole thing. So we can't 2213 01:59:50.560 --> 01:59:54.760 think of anybody better than the investigative Green Beret Ranger 2214 01:59:54.960 --> 01:59:56.279 turn investigative journalists and. 2215 01:59:56.319 --> 01:59:58.920 SOLF well, thank you for that. I mean, likewise, we 2216 01:59:59.039 --> 02:00:01.399 try to avoid all out of the vet bro drama, 2217 02:00:01.720 --> 02:00:06.880 keep it relatively positive about people's careers and relatively apolitical, 2218 02:00:08.439 --> 02:00:11.800 and yeah, it's just not worth anyone's time really to 2219 02:00:11.840 --> 02:00:15.119 get into all that. But again, thank you, appreciate your time. 2220 02:00:15.199 --> 02:00:18.680 Joe and everyone else out there. We will see you 2221 02:00:18.760 --> 02:00:19.439 again next time. 2222 02:00:20.640 --> 02:00:21.920 Absolutely, thank you again, sir. 2223 02:00:24.640 --> 02:00:26.399 Hey guys, I want to tell all of you today 2224 02:00:26.560 --> 02:00:29.720 about a new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both 2225 02:00:29.840 --> 02:00:33.600 the team House podcast, the eyes On podcast, and the 2226 02:00:33.760 --> 02:00:37.159 high Side news outlet which I run with Sean Naylor. 2227 02:00:38.039 --> 02:00:41.119 The newsletter is gonna be once a week. It's going 2228 02:00:41.199 --> 02:00:43.479 to come into your inbox and you're going to get 2229 02:00:43.479 --> 02:00:47.039 the most current podcasts on eyes On, in the Teamhouse, 2230 02:00:47.439 --> 02:00:51.199 and whatever's topical or current on the high Side. So 2231 02:00:51.479 --> 02:00:53.479 it's another way for us to get the information out 2232 02:00:53.520 --> 02:00:57.279 to you as social media algorithms are pretty iffy and 2233 02:00:57.399 --> 02:00:59.800 you never really know what you're gonna get. So this 2234 02:00:59.920 --> 02:01:02.000 is so once a week email it'll slide into your 2235 02:01:02.039 --> 02:01:04.479 inbox and it will have you know the greatest hits 2236 02:01:04.560 --> 02:01:08.520 of that week. It's really good checking it out. The 2237 02:01:08.880 --> 02:01:12.640 website for it is Teamhouse Podcast dot kit dot com, 2238 02:01:12.800 --> 02:01:17.640 slash Join Teamhouse Podcast dot kit dot com slash join. 2239 02:01:18.279 --> 02:01:18.399 Uh. 2240 02:01:18.560 --> 02:01:20.640 You go there and you enter into your email list 2241 02:01:20.880 --> 02:01:24.439 or you enter your email into the little thing on 2242 02:01:24.560 --> 02:01:26.920 the website and you're good to go and that'll be it. 2243 02:01:27.720 --> 02:01:30.760 So we really appreciate your support and hope you'll consider 2244 02:01:30.840 --> 02:01:31.319 signing up. 2245 02:01:31.600 --> 02:01:32.279 Where's the link. 2246 02:01:33.199 --> 02:01:35.720 The link will also be down the description if you're 2247 02:01:35.760 --> 02:01:39.600 looking for it there, and that's Teamhouse Podcast, dot Kit, 2248 02:01:39.920 --> 02:01:45.880 k I t Kilo India, Tango dot com backslash Join