WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:04.599 Golf Smarter number three hundred and fifty three, published on 2 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:06.719 October sixteen, twenty twelve. 3 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:12.039 Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 4 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:15.679 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 5 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:21.719 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 6 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:26.600 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 7 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:30.239 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 8 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:33.840 Sports marketing was a very different beast in nineteen fifty 9 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:35.880 five than it is in twenty twelve. 10 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:38.399 It was and a lot of these players made their 11 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:42.000 money and made it from countcown to tournament to tournament 12 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.560 by playing money games in between the tournaments, playing the 13 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.840 best player in that area, the best player at the club, 14 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:51.640 and they'd play in some big money games, and some 15 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:54.039 of them made a lot more money when they weren't 16 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:57.320 playing tournaments than when they were. I went down to Hickory, 17 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.679 North Carolina, just last week to see Jack Pluck and 18 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:02.920 some of these other legends because they were up there 19 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.640 playing a pro am at Hickory, which is where the 20 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:08.400 Champions Tour event was. But I was sitting next to 21 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:11.400 a guy he's a good friend to Doug Sanders. Doug 22 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.719 Sanders is a great player, a little later era than Black. 23 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.640 He came along one in the late fifties and early sixties. 24 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:20.280 He won a lot of tournaments and he very nearly 25 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:22.640 won the British Open. He missed a short cut at 26 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:25.120 Saint Andrews in nineteen seventy and he ended in a 27 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:26.799 playoff with Jack Nicholas and lost. 28 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:28.840 Sounds like another book for you. 29 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:31.959 Yeah, this though I met. He told me that Doug 30 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:36.159 Sanders made a lot more money playing Jen Rummy than 31 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:39.799 he was playing golf. She said, numbers like twenty five 32 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.680 thirty fifty thousand dollars playing Jen Rummy when he wasn't 33 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:44.719 out on the golf course. 34 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.040 Golf's greatest upset at the nineteen fifty five US Open 35 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:55.359 with author Neil Sagabel. 36 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.000 This is Golf. 37 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:01.799 Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers and golf professionals 38 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:03.159 to help lower your score. 39 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:06.920 It's worked for your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the 40 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:08.080 Golf Smarter podcast. 41 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:10.599 Neil, good to be here, Fred, thanks for having me on. 42 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.599 Thank you for reaching out and mentioning in LinkedIn that 43 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:15.240 you had. 44 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:18.879 This book because it was kind of perfect for the 45 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:23.439 Golf Smarter podcast, and for some interesting reason, I thought 46 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:26.520 it was perfect for twenty twelve because this sports year 47 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:30.520 has had its own list of upsets, and we can 48 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.360 get into more about that in a minute, But most 49 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:39.319 recently in golf, the twenty twelve Ryder Cup. I don't 50 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:41.439 know if it was necessarily an upset, but it was 51 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:45.280 an amazing comeback and a long shot at best on Sunday. 52 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:51.439 But we also had the US Open in San Francisco 53 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:56.120 at the Olympic Club here in twenty twelve, and your 54 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:59.840 story talks about the US Open back in nineteen. 55 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:04.719 Fifty Yeah, well, this year, this is the Open play 56 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:08.719 at the Olympic Club. The one in nineteen fifty five 57 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.000 was the first, and that's where Hogan and Fleck showed 58 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:18.240 up in all the other greats of that era. And interestingly, 59 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:21.319 it was only the second US Open plate on the 60 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:24.680 West Coast, so up until that time, the US Open 61 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:29.360 had been more or less an East Coast championship. 62 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:33.759 Most sports are our East Coast centric, at least from 63 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:38.000 the writer's perspective. What was the first event played on 64 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:38.639 the West coast? 65 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:40.400 Do you remember so? 66 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.400 Yeah, the first US Open played on the West Coast 67 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:44.639 was at. 68 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.159 Riviera, then Los Angeles. 69 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.840 Yeah, and then it was the first US Open that 70 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:51.680 ben Hogan won. 71 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:52.479 Oh. 72 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:54.759 Interesting. Interesting. 73 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:59.879 So let's set this up because during the TV broad 74 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:02.520 cast of the twenty twelve US OPE, and there was 75 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.000 a lot of talk about Jack Fleck and you know, 76 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:06.719 like they love to go into the history of it, 77 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:12.919 but specifically Ben Hogan at the time was dominant. 78 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:14.319 He was. 79 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.079 It was just a given that Ben Hogan would be 80 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:22.199 there at the end, battling for the title or just 81 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:25.480 running away with it. And this was the case again, 82 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.959 but it had been for those who aren't familiar, it 83 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:32.000 had been a tumultuous time for Ben Hogan leading up 84 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.360 to this. Let's start with some background about the big Boy. 85 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.759 Let's give us some background about Ben Hogan. 86 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:43.959 Well, a lot of people who followed GoF I've heard 87 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.759 of Hogan for sure, because he I think he revolutionized 88 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.319 the game in a few different ways. And part of 89 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.079 that was because I think it was not easy for 90 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.399 him to make it out there on the PGA tour. 91 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.000 We know of him as the great player now, but 92 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:06.079 he struggled. He was not as talented as as guys 93 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:09.000 like say Byron Nelson, who came out of the same 94 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.199 caddy yard as Hogan, so he really had to work 95 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:17.000 to hone his golf swing. He fought a hook as 96 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:23.240 a younger player, and he took him three tries really 97 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.600 to catch on. On the PGA Tour, he didn't win 98 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:29.240 his first tournament until nineteen forty, so he'd been out 99 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:32.720 there a while. And he didn't win his first major 100 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:37.319 until nineteen forty six. And I can't remember, so that 101 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:42.480 would have made him I guess almost Well, he's probably 102 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:47.360 about thirty four years old. So it took Hogan a while. 103 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.680 And there's that famous saying of finding the secret in 104 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:54.480 the dirt. He found his swing through a lot of 105 00:05:54.519 --> 00:06:00.600 practice and no, and I don't know uptill that point 106 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.439 in time anyone had worked harder to develop his golf 107 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:06.839 swing or develop his game at Ben Hogan. So he's 108 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:11.680 famous for his work ethic. About the time that he 109 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:16.000 was really coming into his home Nelson Byron Nelson retired 110 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:19.959 in nineteen forty six, he was really considered the top 111 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:23.199 man in golf, but Hogan was coming along. Snead was 112 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:27.600 a great as well. Sam Snead. About the time Hogan 113 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:31.519 was really starting to get it, he won the PGA 114 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:35.319 Championship in forty six. He won his first US Open 115 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:39.240 in nineteen forty eight at Riviera in Los Angeles. He 116 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:44.879 had that terrible car accident in early nineteen forty nine. 117 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:49.319 He was coming back from Arizona, I think it was 118 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.639 the Phoenix Open with his wife and he was driving 119 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:56.160 home to Fort Worth and they were on a foggy 120 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.360 West Texas Highway and a Greyhound bus had pulled out 121 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:04.560 to pass a truck and Hogan and his wife in 122 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.079 their Cadillac had a head on collision that they were 123 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:10.399 just it was a miracle that they both survived in 124 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.040 and Hogan was in a hospital for two months and 125 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:17.720 almost died. And when he came out of that hospital, 126 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:23.839 his doctors never really thought he'd played golf again. He 127 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.040 was fortunate to be walking around, but he was a 128 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:34.480 very driven man and he made a comeback what some 129 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.519 I think to this day considered maybe one of the greatest, 130 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.720 if not the greatest comebacks in the history of sports. 131 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.759 Something less than two years after he had this accident, 132 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:48.199 he came back and he won the US Open in 133 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:52.720 nineteen fifty at Marion. And so we see this Hogan 134 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:58.879 who now because of his physical condition. He hasd to 135 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:02.480 go through this regiment just to play, prepare himself to play. 136 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:05.600 He'd soak himself, he'd soak in a hot tub with 137 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:10.480 epsom salts. He took asper, and he had to limen 138 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.120 on his legs and wrap his legs and elastic manages. 139 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:17.319 And after this accident he only plays in about six 140 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:22.319 or seven tournaments a year, but he becomes this machine 141 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:26.319 of a golfer who is incredibly tough and determined in 142 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:31.240 the major championships. So after Hogan has his accident, he 143 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.120 actually goes on to win more majors than he'd won 144 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:39.879 before that, And coming into the nineteen fifty five US 145 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:44.840 Open Olympic, he'd won four of the last six US 146 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:49.159 Opens he'd played in, which is pretty remarkable, and he'd 147 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:56.080 won nine majors total. And in nineteen fifty three he 148 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.559 had probably one of the greatest years in golf at 149 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:02.799 any professional golf or has ever had. He won what 150 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:05.960 they ended up calling the Hogan Slam. He won the Masters, 151 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:10.039 the US Open, and the British Open, and I believe 152 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:15.320 all by record scores amazing, and they called it to 153 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:18.480 Hogan Slam. And it was at a time when the 154 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:23.600 PGA Championship. Was it overlapped the British Open and you 155 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:29.240 couldn't play both, really, Hogan, he might not have been 156 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:32.759 played during the same week, but because of travel, I 157 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:36.039 can't remember if Hogan took a boat over to Scotland 158 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.000 or if he flew. But it was hard you really 159 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.799 practice from a practical standpoint, you couldn't play in both. 160 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:45.200 So he went and played the British. 161 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.840 Right and right and they were the British and the 162 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:51.639 PGA Championship were happening at the same time that year. 163 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:53.960 Is that true? 164 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:59.000 And that's why he They were either happening at the 165 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.399 same time or they were so close together that it 166 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.600 wasn't practical for him to get back play the PGA. 167 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:11.399 The PGA was a match play championship at that time, okay, 168 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.799 And I don't remember how many matches he had to 169 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.679 play to win it, but he had to play several matches. 170 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.600 Actually, just I just found it up on Wikipedia. And 171 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:23.200 that year in fifty three. First of all, Hogan was 172 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:26.600 forty at the time, which is amazing in itself when 173 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:29.879 you look at today's players. But in nineteen fifty three, 174 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:36.080 the PGA Championship was from July first to seven one 175 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:40.639 through seven, and the Open Championship played at Carnousti that 176 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:45.519 year was July six through ten, so they did overlap. Yeah, 177 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:51.519 so you know, getting the Hogan Slam, he wasn't given 178 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:53.399 the opportunity to get the Grand Slam. 179 00:10:54.759 --> 00:11:01.679 Yeah, and that terminology I don't really know for my 180 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:04.639 research what they were saying, if that was something that 181 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:07.600 people were even talking about at that time, you know, 182 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:12.720 calling it the Grand Slam. But he won. He was 183 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:16.559 professional athlete of the year, not just golfer. In nineteen 184 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:21.480 fifty three, there was something called the hiccock Belt maybe 185 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:23.840 you've heard of or maybe some of your listeners have 186 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:27.720 heard of. He was awarded to the top professional athlete 187 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.639 of the year. And Hogan wanted in nineteen fifty three 188 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:33.399 to the end of this remarkable year where he won. 189 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:38.080 He won three majors and I think he won he 190 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:42.639 played in six tournaments and he won five. So and 191 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.159 he never went back to the British Isles. He played. 192 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:49.080 He went there once he won it, and that was 193 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:49.759 it was. 194 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:51.279 It wouldn't been there done that. 195 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:56.240 A lot of Americans didn't play in the British Open 196 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:59.519 in those days. It was it typically costs more to 197 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:02.080 go over there and play it. Then you got out 198 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:10.679 of it. And only some of Hogan's professional friends said, 199 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:12.879 then you need you need to go over there and 200 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.600 play that to be considered. You know, that's kind of 201 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.200 a full career, and as the great player you are, 202 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.759 you need to do it. And so he did, and 203 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:22.960 he wanted Carnousti. 204 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:33.919 He really defies what we know today and just it's 205 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.679 amazing that he was able to come back with you 206 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.120 know way science and medicine is today, what they could 207 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:44.759 have done for him. But he was in a lot 208 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.120 of pain, he was limping, and he made it work, 209 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.320 I mean, and then he came back and played better 210 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:51.799 than ever. 211 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:59.600 Truly incredible story. Truly an incredible story of a comeback. 212 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:04.679 So here he is now, he's he won in fifty three, 213 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:08.720 he had the sl the Hogan Slam in fifty three, 214 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.600 fifty four, he doesn't win any majors. Nineteen fifty five 215 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:18.399 he is expected to dominate again and they come to 216 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.279 San Francisco, but there's something that gets in the way 217 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:25.440 of his victory. There there's another character. Give us the 218 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:26.759 background on Jack Fleck. 219 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:33.639 Well, Jack Fleck is a totally different golfer in nineteen 220 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:38.399 fifty five. He's one of the guys that's in the 221 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.960 field playing these tournaments, but he is not well known. 222 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:48.360 He's never won on tour. He's mostly been what I 223 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:53.960 call a Winner Tour player, meaning he was a club pro. 224 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.240 He had two pros or two clubs he managed in Iowa, 225 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:02.919 and from late December to early April he'd go play 226 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:09.519 the Winner Tour out in California, Arizona, Texas, and Louisiana 227 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:11.879 up until the time when Golf SI's an open at 228 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.639 his home courses in the beginning of April, and there 229 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.279 were a lot of guys that did that. It was 230 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.399 tough to play the full tour. There just wasn't that 231 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.559 much money. So he had tournament experience, but he wasn't 232 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:29.320 really known, and he was i'd say a middle of 233 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.080 the pack player. He'd make cuts and he could finish 234 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:38.840 in the top twenty and he might make a few checks. 235 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.320 But he was trying to see if he was good 236 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.519 enough really to play out there. And at the beginning, 237 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.960 at the end of the nineteen fifty four season, he 238 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.320 and his wife had a talk and she said, why 239 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:53.039 don't you give it two years and see if you 240 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:57.120 can play the full tour and see if you can 241 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:00.960 succeed up there and make enough money make it worthwhile. 242 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:06.759 By this time, Jack's thirty three years old, so he's gonna. 243 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:07.080 Make it sense. 244 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.399 You know what, Neil, you make it sound so gentle. 245 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:11.039 Why don't you know his wife saying why didn't you 246 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.080 give it two years? I kind of believe anybody who's 247 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.759 married for any period of time's got to believe that. 248 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.720 It wasn't that simple of oh, why don't you just 249 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.120 give it two years? It was more like, all right, 250 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.799 you got two years. If you don't get it done, 251 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:30.440 then it's time to change course. Or I mean, did 252 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.960 your research show that she was that genteel about it? 253 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.639 Well, it was all from Jack, because she's gone, now right, No, 254 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.440 you're you're right, I'm saying that in my tone, in 255 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:45.600 my style of speech. Yeah, I think it probably was 256 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:50.519 more of a challenge to him. Sure, but you know, 257 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.360 I think it was. In fact, When you read the book, 258 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.919 you'll see quote from her where she says, go out 259 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:58.879 there and find out if you can if you can 260 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:03.399 play tournament golf, full circuit, or and if you can't, 261 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:08.240 you'll at least get it out of your system, quoted. Now, 262 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:11.679 she ran the golf courses for him while he was gone, 263 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:16.559 along with his assistant pro. Interesting, so she was I 264 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.879 would say that she was an encouraging influence. And if 265 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:23.759 you were talking to Jack flu today, he'd probably tell 266 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:25.960 you that she kind of pushed him out there and said, Jack, 267 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.480 just just go find out. Okay, you want to you 268 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:32.919 want to find out if you can play, go try 269 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.159 it and give it two years. And if you don't, hey, 270 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:38.879 if you're just going to come back to Island and 271 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:40.519 be a club pro. And that's the way it's going 272 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.000 to be. And there are a lot of guys like that. 273 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.159 It was really hard to play. 274 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:52.279 She said, uh, you know, Jack, just go find out. 275 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:54.799 So if you can pick it up right around there, 276 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:55.799 I'll clean it up. 277 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:56.279 And edit it. 278 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.960 I think you're right about what you said, Fred. She did. 279 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:03.600 It was sort of a challenge to him, and she said, Jack, 280 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:06.599 get out there and go find out, and if you 281 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.960 can't make it in two years, you'll get tournament and 282 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:14.160 playing tournament golf out of your system. So it was 283 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:20.039 a challenge. And he had said to her at the 284 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:25.200 end of the fifty four season, just privately, something he 285 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:28.960 told me, and it's also in the book. He wanted 286 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.240 to see if he could play what he called championship 287 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.720 golf before Hogan and Sneed retired. So he looked up 288 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.960 to those guys and I think he wanted to see 289 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.960 if he could play at that level. Now, he wasn't 290 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.920 going to be Hogan or Sneed, but he wanted to 291 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:47.160 be able to see if he could really compete and 292 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.720 play better than he'd played up to that point. So 293 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:55.720 this was his shots. It really was his chance, his 294 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:58.640 window of opportunity to go try to play the full tour. 295 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:00.640 Had he played in major. 296 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:08.160 Before, yes, he had, he played. You know whereas Hogan 297 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.839 comes into fifty five, he's won four US Opens and 298 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.599 finished very high on many of the others that he 299 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.440 played in. Jack flex only played in two. He's only 300 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:24.480 played in two, and the first one was in nineteen 301 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:28.200 fifty where Hogan made that miracle comeback. So the first 302 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:32.480 Open that Jack played and he missed the cut. And 303 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:35.920 then Jack played again in nineteen fifty three where which 304 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:40.079 was a part of Hogan's Hogan's slam year where he 305 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:43.160 won the three majors, and that was that Oakmont and 306 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:48.000 in that one Jack finished something like, I think he 307 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:52.839 finished fifty second, twenty six shots behind Ben Hogan. So 308 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:58.599 he's played in fifty four. He tried to qualify, but 309 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:02.279 he didn't qualify. He didn't play in fifty four, and 310 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.000 he had to qualify in fifty five. This is an 311 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:10.359 era where pretty much the whole field has to qualify 312 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:13.519 just to get into the US Open. There are all 313 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.319 the exemptions that there are now to get into the field. 314 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:23.079 You're looking at all, but seventeen players who qualified around 315 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:24.759 the country can get into the field. 316 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:29.119 So then talk about the qualification process. 317 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.480 There were seventeen players that were exempt into the nineteen 318 00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.920 fifty five US Open field out of one hundred and 319 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:38.759 sixty two that started. So from that, you can just 320 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.960 imagine that you have all these players qualifying, and a 321 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.000 lot of them are really great players. There are players 322 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.160 that have been playing on the tour and winning money, 323 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.839 but you didn't have the exemptions like you do now. 324 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.640 You know, where there's all this different criteria for getting in, 325 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.680 whether you're in the top fifty in the world and 326 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:56.880 all these other things. 327 00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:58.480 Plus the money. 328 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.720 You know, probably well, definitely the money wasn't it like 329 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:05.519 it is today. But if you were probably out of 330 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:08.720 the top what five, top top ten that you really 331 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:09.559 didn't win anything. 332 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.759 That's exactly right. So what you had in fifty five, 333 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.319 the guys that were in were the last five players 334 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:24.319 to win the US Open, the players who had finished 335 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.480 in the top ten in nineteen fifty four, they're in. 336 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.240 And then you have the winners of the US Amateur 337 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:36.759 and the British Amateur they're in. And I think that 338 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:41.359 pretty much covers the criteria cheria for being exempt into 339 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.359 the nineteen fifty five US Open. Field neck ends up 340 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:45.960 being about seventeen players. 341 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:47.000 The other. 342 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.480 Going to try to do math here, other one hundred 343 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:55.400 and forty five players have to qualify. These are pros 344 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:58.319 and amateurs, club pros, guys who've been playing the tour. 345 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:06.359 They're qualifying at locations around the country. They were total 346 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.480 of over fifteen hundred that went to qualifying for one 347 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.680 hundred and forty five spots around the country. Wow, Jack 348 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:18.440 qualified in the Chicago sectional and there might have been 349 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.000 I don't know, a hundred row a few more in 350 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.400 that sectional and maybe six seven spots. So it was, 351 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:31.880 as some of the players told me, it was just 352 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.720 an honor. You had to be a great golfer just 353 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:36.960 to play in the US. So a lot of guys 354 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.759 felt like just getting to the tournament, playing in it 355 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:44.160 was a huge honor, and they were just it said 356 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.240 that they are a good golfer just being in the tournament. 357 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.200 That actually could turn into a lot of work for 358 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.599 them in those days, just to be able to say 359 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:01.000 that they qualified for the tournament. They can become the 360 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:04.400 pro for at a club for life, and really that 361 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:10.160 that was probably a more secure profession at the time. 362 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.440 If you talk about that being a profession than being 363 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:13.240 a touring. 364 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:18.599 Golfer, that's absolutely correct, because there just wasn't There just 365 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.640 wasn't the money. Yeah, professional golf, playing tournament golf, and 366 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:27.920 there were the purses ranged from this is total purses 367 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.440 for the whole field. They might range from about ten 368 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.519 thousand dollars to thirty thousand dollars the winner would get, 369 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.720 so anywhere from two thousand dollars to five thousand dollars 370 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.960 was the winning check. And all the guys, you know, 371 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:45.599 guys that are in the Hall of Fame now that 372 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.039 I've got to talk to, they said it was just tough. 373 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:52.880 It was tough playing out there. You could, you know, 374 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:57.599 I talked to Donold Palmer. You could make the cut 375 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:01.880 and not earn a chat you had. There were only 376 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.039 about thirty money places in a lot of tournaments, so 377 00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:07.400 you could make the cut and not get a check. 378 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.119 Jack tells the story. Jack Fleck tells a story where 379 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.680 I don't know, I think it might have been in 380 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.720 the nineteen fifty three San Diego Open. He finished to 381 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:22.599 think twenty seventh and his check for the week was 382 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:27.599 thirteen dollars and seventy five cents. And after he paid 383 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:31.839 his caddy for the week twenty one or twenty two dollars, 384 00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:34.960 he came out, you know, eight dollars in the hole. 385 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.920 It's not good. That's not a way to make a living. 386 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.119 And get hear why the wife would be going, uh, okay, yeah, 387 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.400 you got this much time and then you're getting back 388 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:49.799 to work. 389 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:56.240 Yeah. So you know, even the top players, Ben Hogan, Sansny, 390 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:01.240 Jimmy Demaret, Lloyd Mangrim, Currie middle Cough, Julius Sporls, these 391 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:05.839 top players, they all had club jobs too, and some 392 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:10.160 of them were more they Some of the top players, 393 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.920 like Hogan, maybe didn't have to spend a lot of 394 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:18.640 time at the club. Turn his check, But that did 395 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.440 augment their income because there just wasn't a lot of 396 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:24.160 money to be made at the tournaments. And then if 397 00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:26.559 you're a top player too, there were some endorsements and 398 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:32.920 equipment contracts and things like that, and they weren't anywhere close. Yeah. 399 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:36.039 Yeah, the endorsement thing really didn't get going until what 400 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.440 the nineties or something, when I guess Michael Jordan really 401 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:43.640