WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.320 --> 00:00:06.320 It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news Radio. 2 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:10.720 Thanks very much, Dan Watkins, welcome back everyone to our 3 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:13.679 second hour on nine o'clock hour here on Wednesday night, 4 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:18.079 June eleventh, and delighted to be joined this hour by 5 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:21.839 Aiden Enwright. Aiden is economic research associate at the Pioneer 6 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:26.079 Institute for Public Policy Research. I think most of you 7 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:28.960 know that I've had several guests on from the Pioneer 8 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:33.679 Institute to say it's a financial think tank and it 9 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:36.840 has a couple of reports coming out, both of which 10 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:43.719 are concerning, I think substantially concerning. To be really honest 11 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:47.240 with you, and I hope, I hope that some of 12 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:52.280 you will participate. It's always difficult to talk about numbers 13 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.679 on the radio, so just sit back and listen and 14 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:00.399 take this in and then we can we can talk 15 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:03.159 about it. Aiden En, right, welcome back to Nightside. How 16 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:03.600 are you, sir? 17 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:06.400 Hi Dan, Thanks for having me on again. 18 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:14.519 Let's start with the clearer, cleaner example that we want 19 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:20.159 to talk about, and that is the fact that since 20 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:29.079 the COVID pandemic struck in twenty twenty, since then, we 21 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:39.239 have lost here in Massachusetts thirty thousand jobs First of all, 22 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:44.400 that's an incredible number of jobs to lose at any 23 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:47.640 point in time. Can we write that off and say, well, 24 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:50.400 that's the consequence of the pandemic. 25 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.680 I don't really think so. You know, if we looked 26 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:01.920 at how we're comparing to other states, pretty much almost 27 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:06.000 every single other state in the country has returned to 28 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:12.479 pre pandemic employment levels and beyond. Massachusetts is one of 29 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:17.840 only four other states that have lost jobs since twenty twenty, 30 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:20.520 and that's detrimental to the state. 31 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.639 Who are the other states that have lost jobs? I mean, 32 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:28.439 there are fifty states in the Union. Massachusetts is one. 33 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.560 We're down about thirty thousand. These are private sector jobs. 34 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:35.719 Correct, Yeah, these are just private sector jobs, so we're 35 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:40.039 not talking about government jobs. The other states that have 36 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:47.319 also lost employment one is Vermont, the other is Hawaii 37 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.360 partially due to you know, reductions and tourism during the pandemic, 38 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:56.199 and then the last one is Iowa. 39 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:04.120 So for us to lose thirty thousand private sector jobs, 40 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:10.039 are they high paying jobs that? Do we have any 41 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:14.159 way of tracking as to what type of jobs we're 42 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:15.759 bleeding we're losing? 43 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:17.800 Yeah? 44 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:20.479 The one thing I go into in the report that's 45 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.120 going to be out is that there's an industry breakdown 46 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:29.400 in the jobs that we're losing. Some are quote unquote 47 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:37.719 lower skills, lower paying, like retail or transportation. We lost 48 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:42.599 about twenty seven thousand retail jobs, but they're also in 49 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:47.360 some sect high growth and are typically high growth and 50 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:54.039 high wage sectors as well. In manufacturing, we've lost over 51 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:59.639 that thirteen thousand jobs. In information, we've lost an additional 52 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:05.360 seven one thousand, and most concertingly to me, since twenty 53 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:09.520 twenty two, we've lost about eleven thousand jobs and what's 54 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:14.960 called the professional, scientific and Technical services center sector, and 55 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:20.240 basically that kind of what's included in that sector are 56 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:29.439 say like biopharma research and development firms and other tech 57 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:30.439 related jobs. 58 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:37.040 Okay, now thirty thousand, So we've obviously, when you say 59 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:41.839 we've lost twenty thousand here or ten thousand there, there 60 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:45.160 are also some jobs that have filled in the gap. 61 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.399 I mean, again, I don't want to get too much 62 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:53.399 in the weeds here, but if we're losing thirty thousand 63 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:57.199 jobs and the majority of them are retail jobs, I 64 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.839 think you said it was twenty seven thousand retail. 65 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:02.480 Jobs, yes, twenty seven thousand. 66 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:09.040 Okay, have that's overall. So are we picking up jobs 67 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.279 that are more than offsetting the jobs that we're losing. 68 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:15.199 I mean, when you say thirty thousand jobs lost, that's 69 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.600 a big number, and it would almost fill Fenway Park, 70 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:19.399 and it would fill the Boston Ground and close to 71 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:24.920 a couple of times. But are we picking up better 72 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:28.279 paying jobs, you know? Or are we look or are 73 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:31.920 there other statistics that would seem to indicate that we're 74 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:35.800 really we're getting hurt here in Massachusetts. 75 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:37.480 No. 76 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.759 I mean, there are certain sectors that are a little 77 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:47.879 bit more resilient to kind of economic downturns or economic uncertainty. 78 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:54.000 So something might be healthcare and social assistance sector in Massachusetts, 79 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:59.360 or educational services. Those have grown in employment, but they 80 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:04.120 haven't grown own to the extent to offset the jobs 81 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:05.959 that we've been losing in other fields. 82 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:09.480 And those those are not necessarily high paying jobs. 83 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.720 No, they're not necessarily high paying depend they. 84 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.079 Should maybe should be getting more money. But at this point, okay, 85 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:22.519 so we'll focus on the jobs for another moment or two. 86 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:27.680 What the headline here, and I don't want to bury 87 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:32.120 the headline or bury the lead, is that there's only 88 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:37.040 four states in the Union that overall have fewer jobs 89 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:42.560 private sector jobs today. If we lose private sector jobs 90 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:47.040 at that rate, we also might find ourselves, in my opinion, 91 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:54.759 with a problem of tax revenues which would support public 92 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.000 sector jobs. I assume some public sector jobs are going 93 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:03.600 to be impacted by whatever cuts the Trump administration makes, 94 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:10.199 and then are are not subject court challenges. So it 95 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:11.800 looks to me like this is a bit of a 96 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:16.519 perfect storm. Or am I over am I overreacting? 97 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:18.279 Yeah? 98 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:21.800 I mean there there are several you know, cascading type 99 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:25.759 effects that would happen from you know, a decline in 100 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.000 private employment. You know, in Massachusetts, we want good, high 101 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.639 paying jobs. You know, we want people to be able 102 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.519 to grow up in Massachusetts and be able to start 103 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.959 their careers and work here or start their own businesses. 104 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.240 You know, if we're not creating those jobs, if we're 105 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.879 not creating those opportunities for people, you know, some young 106 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.360 people are going to look elsewhere to put roots down. 107 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.879 And then you know, we're also going to miss out 108 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:57.480 from you know, the revenue that in taxes that those 109 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.959 people would be proding to our local governments. That might 110 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:06.639 cost public sector jobs for the government. It might mean 111 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:10.680 that there's you know, there's not as much growth in 112 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:15.480 assistance programs, so it just makes the budget a bit tighter, 113 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:19.240 and so you know that's another effect. 114 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:22.800 Okay, when we get back from the break, there's another 115 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.920 study that you've done which complements this study. Pretty well. 116 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:31.399 All of us have heard of the gross Domestic product 117 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.879 the GDP. You've come up with a statistic for the 118 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:41.559 gross state product, and there's not much there that is 119 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.360 of great comfort. Let me put it like that. Well, 120 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:49.960 we'll break down those numbers, we'll see that they do 121 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:53.240 sort of reflect one another, and then we'll open it 122 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:55.279 up to phone calls and maybe some people will be 123 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:59.559 a little bit more optimistic. Both of these reports are concerning, 124 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.639 maybe not frightening, but they're concerning and they need to 125 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:08.519 be considered in the months and the years ahead. We'll 126 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:13.320 be back on Nightside. My guest is from the Pioneer Institute, 127 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:19.279 which is a really solid think tank. Aiden Enwright joins us. 128 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.639 We'll be back right after this break with more conversation. 129 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:26.879 If you're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w 130 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:31.759 b Z, Boston's news radio. 131 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:34.120 We're talking with aiden Enright and the numbers that the 132 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:38.240 Pioneer Institute has for us. They're not good numbers. Okay, 133 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:43.720 so let's talk. We've talked about job loss, and there 134 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:48.440 are only four states in the country from mont Iowa, Hawaii, 135 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:53.039 and Massachusetts who have fewer jobs private sector jobs today. 136 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:56.639 Do you know, off hand, aiden, if our public sector 137 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.559 has grown during that same period of time. I suspect 138 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:01.559 it has. 139 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:04.799 It has to a certain extent, not as much as 140 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:06.840 some other states, but yes, it has grown. 141 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:10.120 Right. Well, I know that the most recent state budget 142 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:13.720 was sixty two billion dollars, and I know it wasn't 143 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:17.480 sixty or anywhere near sixty billion dollars. It was probably 144 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:21.879 much more in the forties five years ago, when you know, 145 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.679 Charlie Baker was in the midst of his second term. 146 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:31.120 So I suspect that we probably have we have more 147 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:36.679 public sector employees, more state employees, more municipal employees, and 148 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:42.480 fewer private sector employees. That's a that's a strategy for 149 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:47.399 economic disaster. And along with that, you folks at Pioneer 150 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:53.279 have done a have developed a program to judge what 151 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:56.600 we call the gross state product, sort of modeled after 152 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:02.039 the GDP, the gross domestic product. And it sounds to 153 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:06.559 me as if we in Massachusetts are not nearly as 154 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.559 productive as we were a few years ago. And correct 155 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:12.600 me if I'm wrong. I think I've read your report accurately. 156 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.960 We used to be, on a per capita basis, the 157 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:22.279 fourth most productive state in the Union. We now have dropped. 158 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:25.879 I believe the statistics suggest to the twenty eighth most 159 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:27.840 productive state. Is that correct? 160 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:34.799 So I would frame it a little bit differently Massachusetts. Yeah, sure, 161 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:41.200 Massachusetts is still the second most productive state in the country, 162 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:45.799 only trailing New York, but it's not growing at the 163 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:51.200 same rate as other states. And so between nineteen ninety 164 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:56.840 eight and twenty nineteen, Massachusetts was growing at the fourth like, 165 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.879 it was growing at the fourth fastest rate out of 166 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:04.120 all states. But since twenty twenty that growth has slowed down, 167 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.759 and now our growth is twenty eight fastest out of 168 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:08.799 all states. 169 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:12.840 Okay, so we're this is a measurement of growth, and obviously, 170 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:16.159 what do we have to do to get the growth 171 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.919 kickstarted or or get that growth ticking up a little bit, 172 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:27.919 because obviously if we keep falling behind every year, that's 173 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:31.240 that's that is not doesn't augur well. 174 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:38.159 Either, Yeah, certainly, you know, during the pandemic and following it, 175 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.159 a lot of states really kind of rethought their economic 176 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:47.120 strategies for how to grow. You know, if you look 177 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.399 at states like Florida, or Texas, or North Carolina, even 178 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:57.360 New Hampshire, they've really aggressively recruited businesses. They've streamlined permitting, 179 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:02.159 they've kept taxes really low, and they've built housing out 180 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:06.559 to accommodate new residents into their state to continue to grow. 181 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.120 You know, in that time, Massachusetts, while we've made changes 182 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:14.279 here and there, we've mostly stayed with the same old 183 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:20.080 playbook and it's really no longer working. You know, if 184 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.840 we want to retain our innovation economy, if we want 185 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:27.559 to retain our economic growth, create good, good paying jobs, 186 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.679 you know, we need to make some changes to make 187 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:34.399 the state more affordable to attract businesses, to make it 188 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:39.000 easier to start a business here. We need to make 189 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.279 it so that we can grow the housing stocks that 190 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.639 people can afford to live here. It's kind of an 191 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.759 across the board things that needs to happen. 192 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.960 So how have we lost our way? I mean, there 193 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:58.279 was a period of time when we had a democratic 194 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:02.080 legislature and from you know, going back to the time 195 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:05.960 of John Volpi, and going back to the to the 196 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:12.960 more recent time of Well Frank Sergeant Bill Weld, Paul Salucci, 197 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:19.600 Mitt Romney, Charlie Baker, we had Republican governors and democratic 198 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:23.799 legislator legislature was right now we have a democratic governor 199 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.960 and democratic legislature, and we've been in that situation now 200 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:32.919 for two and a half years. I know the Pioneer 201 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:35.240 Institute is not going to get political. I don't want 202 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.320 you to get political on me. But I'm looking at 203 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:44.200 a correlation there which says that the things need to 204 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.960 need to get shaken up here in Massachusetts a little bit. Oh, 205 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.919 we're going to continue to drift down. This this chart 206 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.720 that I'm looking at the private sector per capitol real 207 00:14:54.600 --> 00:15:02.399 GSP growth. You know, the the we're way down. We're 208 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:06.120 down at like twelve point five percent. Florida is twice 209 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.840 as much as we are in terms of growth. Texas 210 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.440 is almost twice as much the national We're below the 211 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:15.759 national average and growth. You know, if you take states 212 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:21.080 that have a lot of problems that we don't have, Alabama, Mississippi, 213 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.919 some of those states we may be ahead of them, 214 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.720 but that's about the only people we're ahead of. North 215 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:32.960 Carolina's ahead of us, as you mentioned, Texas, Florida. How 216 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:33.960 do we turn this around? 217 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:40.960 Yeah, Well, I think one bit is that after the 218 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:44.320 pandemic or during it, a lot of states decided to 219 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:50.320 lower taxes on individuals, lower their tax rates in several 220 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:57.759 different categories, and Massachusetts instead decided to raise taxes on 221 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:05.840 wealthy or individuals. Also, during that period of time, there 222 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:10.279 have been several cities and other states that have made 223 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:20.039 moves to streamline regulations related to housing development. And so 224 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:25.799 while these states have done that, Massachusetts has made some 225 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:29.200 incremental change, but it hasn't really had an effect on 226 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:33.440 the state's housing stock. You know, between twenty eleven and 227 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:38.200 twenty twenty three, we had more housing permitted in each 228 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:39.960 of those years than we did in twenty twenty four. 229 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.159 So we're not really changing enough to kind of build 230 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:48.639 out the state and make it a place for businesses 231 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.799 and for talent and people to locate to. 232 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:57.000 My guess is, Aidenn, right, We're going to take a 233 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:58.279 break here for the news at the bottom of the 234 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.080 air if you'd like to join us, if you have 235 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:05.799 thoughts on these statistics, which frankly are not are not heartening. 236 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.319 I wouldn't call them frightening, but they are. They are 237 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:14.079 concerning statistics. To me, I'd love to hear from you again. 238 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.359 I know statistics are tough on radio, but if you 239 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:19.200 follow the conversation, love to get your point of view. 240 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.160 Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty or 241 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.519 six one, seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back with 242 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:27.359 Aiden en Wright and your calls and comments. Aiden is 243 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:31.400 with the Pioneer Institute, which is a great think tank 244 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.400 here in Massachusetts, and I just wish that our political 245 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.279 leaders would pay a little more attention to what these 246 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:40.000 reports are trying to tell them. Back on night Side 247 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:41.319 after the News at the bottom of. 248 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.359 The hour, You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm 249 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.759 w b Z, Boston's News Radio. 250 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.039 Okay, we have waded through the numbers, and the numbers 251 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.160 don't lie. I mean, the numbers are there to be 252 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:57.039 looked at, and I want to talk to callers. I 253 00:17:57.079 --> 00:17:59.359 want to give I want to give you an opportunity 254 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.720 to challenge numbers, to say the numbers don't matter, which 255 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.599 I think is a silly position to take. But if 256 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.839 you want to take that position, that's fine. You cannot 257 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.440 continue to grow the commonwealth if you're losing private sector 258 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.839 jobs at the same time you're increasing the state budget. 259 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.000 It just at some point, particularly in a state where 260 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:22.759 the governor is mandated constitutionally to balance the budget. And 261 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.000 we're also in a state where the state auditor, who 262 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:27.599 happens to be a Democrat by the way, is attempting 263 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:31.880 to audit the state legislature, both basically most of whom 264 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.920 are Democrats, and this saying to the state auditor, mind 265 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:39.440 your own business. Guess what it's Diane Desauglio's business to 266 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:43.279 audit the legislature, amongst other things. Let's go to the phones. 267 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:46.920 Let me go first off to Paul in nan Tasket 268 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.000 down by the water's edge. Paul, welcome to night side. 269 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.759 Your next damn, what's going on? Well, you're you're hearing 270 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:55.400 some numbers here. I'd love to know what you think 271 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:56.200 you're wrong with aident. 272 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:58.200 I've got a couple of things that's speaking. 273 00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:59.359 The numbers whatever. 274 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.480 Two and a half we have the old property two. 275 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.400 And a half still in fact. Prop two and a 276 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.400 half is still in effect, but it allows and has 277 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.440 allowed every year to increase and aidens will help me 278 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:18.359 out here, not necessarily to limit your property tax it 279 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:24.200 limits the tax levee that the town can cumulatively announce. 280 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:28.799 So let's say that that there's a property tax levee. 281 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.319 All the property tax in your community is one hundred 282 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:35.400 million dollars. That means that a year from now, even 283 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.480 with Prop two and a half, it can go up 284 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:39.039 two and a half percent, So it can go up 285 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.319 to one hundred and two and a half million dollars. 286 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:46.079 And someone's got to pick up that additional two and 287 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.079 a half million dollars, and in some cases it's gonna 288 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:49.640 be guys like. 289 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:52.039 Yeah. 290 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:54.200 So here's the first thing. And the second thing is 291 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:56.880 a lot of these city and towns are used in 292 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.400 Chapter ninety money, which is eroads when you fixture roads 293 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.640 and stuff. Now I find out that a lot of 294 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.759 city in towns they can buy equipment through Chapter ninety. 295 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.599 That's like loaders, you know, trucks that you use in 296 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.200 the road. So instead of paving, they're buying all this 297 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.880 stuff without going to town meetings. And they're taking this 298 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.119 Chapter ninety money they used to go for one hundred 299 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:21.559 percent for roads and they use it to buy their 300 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:23.839 own equipment. You have to see somebody sitting in town. 301 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.079 They got the best equipment than the contractors have and 302 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:28.319 no one knows how to use it. 303 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:31.039 So let's see. Let me see if Aidan wants to 304 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:35.319 weigh in on that two points that Paul has made. 305 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:39.400 I hope I haven't misled him on to the chapter 306 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:43.400 the prop two and a half situation, everybody thought, well 307 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.200 that my taxes can only go up two and a 308 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.119 half percent. It's the entire levee that the town or 309 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:51.359 the city actually can raise two and a half percent. 310 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.519 So that's number one. And what about his points about 311 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.319 the towns being able to buy the best equipment with 312 00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:58.839 money free money from the state. 313 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.359 Yeah, I think on the first point you covered that great, Dan. 314 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:08.640 On the second, I don't know if I necessarily have 315 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:12.480 the expertise based off of the studies to answer that 316 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:13.359 particular question. 317 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:17.279 So all right, fair enough, Paul, I assume you know 318 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:18.240 of what you speak. 319 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:19.559 I do. 320 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:20.839 That's why I brought it up. 321 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.240 You brought it up, so you. 322 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:28.519 Brought it up with a lot of conviction. I don't 323 00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:32.279 think my first answer probably satisfied you, but unfortunately that 324 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:33.119 is the truth. 325 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:38.759 You know, And thank you Dan for having me on again. 326 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:42.200 Well, Paul, you keep calling the show, Okay, and enjoy 327 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:44.960 the summer on Nantaska. Thanks so much. Thank you. That's 328 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.319 a great one. All right, Joining us now is a 329 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:53.240 candidate for governor, Brian shortly, Brian, welcome back to Night's Side. 330 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.920 Thank you for checking in, Thank you for listening to 331 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:00.559 the program. Aiden en Wright is our guest. I know 332 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.759 you probably have some thoughts on what you've heard, but 333 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.920 you probably knew about this ahead of time. Go right ahead. 334 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.319 Well, thanks for having me on, Dan and hello Aiden. 335 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:10.920 I just wanted to say I think there's a lot 336 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.200 that we can do to solve the problem of people 337 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:16.960 leaving Massachusetts and businesses leaving Massachusetts. 338 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:17.400 And I think it. 339 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.079 Starts with electing a new governor in November of twenty 340 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:21.960 twenty six. You know, as I listened to. 341 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.799 The conversation, I'm sure you have a candidate in mind, Brian. 342 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.720 I think we could use a businessman, a business builder 343 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.160 in the corner office. And when I listened to the conversation, 344 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:36.160 you know, we know why people in businesses are leaving Massachusetts. 345 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:39.319 It's because taxes are too high and electricity bills are 346 00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:42.000 too high. Those are things a governor can effect on 347 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.880 day one. You know, a governor on day one could 348 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.519 cut all those state manded fees out of the utility bill, 349 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.720 could reduce the costs for business and individuals of utility bills, 350 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:53.839 and a governor could really go to go to work 351 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.319 on reducing taxes and getting state spending under control. Those 352 00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:59.839 are things that I think, as you mentioned, we've seen 353 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.559 Republican governors in the past, you know, like Charlie Baker, 354 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.799 that Romney and Bill Well, and I think it's time 355 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.559 that we bring a Republican back to the corner office. 356 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:12.319 Well, for those who do not know, Brian is one 357 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:17.440 of two Republicans you and Mike Kneely are vuying for 358 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.519 the Republican nomination. I've had both of you on in 359 00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:28.559 the last month or so. These studies that Pioneer has released. 360 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:31.759 They're really good studies if people could take the time 361 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.519 to read them, and it's tough to explain them Brian 362 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:37.839 on the air, because it's numbers and you don't have 363 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:42.559 the visual aspect on radio that you do have on television. 364 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:47.640 How much would you be relying upon if you're fortunate 365 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:50.960 enough to be elected governor on some of the work 366 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.720 that the Pioneer Institute does, particularly as it relates. 367 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.880 To well aident pioneer, do incredible work. But I would 368 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.359 tell you there's a family behind every statistic. Every time 369 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:04.000 a company closes because they can't operate here, that's someone 370 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:06.240 losing a job. It's someone who can't put food on 371 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:09.200 the table, and often it's a young person leaving the state, 372 00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:11.720 you know, And that means we've got parents like me, 373 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.400 I've got young kids. You know, got parents and grandparents 374 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.359 who are losing their loved ones, losing their kids and 375 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:21.079 their grandkids to other states. So I think behind these statistics, 376 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:24.480 it's really a story of our young people leaving. We've 377 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.319 got to keep our young people here, and it starts 378 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:29.839 with building a private sector economy that can grow in scale. 379 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:31.839 At the end of the day, the mark of a 380 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:34.880 successful state is a private sector economy that's growing. That 381 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.960 means people want to be here in businesses want. 382 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:37.200 To be here. 383 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.240 If you're if you're shedding private sector jobs, it means 384 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:42.279 you're not a good place to do business. And behind 385 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.400 those statistics, you know, are a lot of families that 386 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.920 are that are feeling the pain on companies closing, and 387 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.880 a lot of parents and grandparents that are seeing their 388 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:53.920 loved ones and their children in some cases moving to 389 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:55.599 other states. And I think we can turn all that 390 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.519 around with a much more business oriented approach to cutting taxes, 391 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.759 cutting feet, and getting our private sector grown again. 392 00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:05.000 Well, the report that really struck me in Again, I'm 393 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.839 a fairly I'm a numbers guy, but when Aiden points 394 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:14.119 out that since twenty twenty, as most other states have 395 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.599 recaptured the jobs that were lost as a result of 396 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.680 the pandemic, and a lot of those jobs were in 397 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:25.279 hospitality and as we know, but Massachusetts is now down 398 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:29.880 thirty thousand jobs. Those are thirty thousand taxpayers that are 399 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:35.480 not contributing to the to the tax base, and there's 400 00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:41.400 only four states. I was stunned, and Aiden, I assume this. 401 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.359