WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.600 Let's go out to the phone lines now and bring 2 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:05.200 in my father stuck on the van wick uh. So 3 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:07.400 we have we have Richard smith live in studio, we 4 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.919 have Scott Leyden in Las Vegas, and my father Dave 5 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:11.759 check Its joined us from New York. So I'll try 6 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:14.519 to play traffic cop best I can. Hello, Dad, how 7 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:15.000 are you. 8 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:17.519 Hey? 9 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:23.039 It's been a great show. I've been listening and happy 10 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:27.120 to join and say hello. And I don't know how 11 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:31.079 I can add anything to what rich Richard and what 12 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:36.479 Smithy and what Scottie said. Scotty gave the talk of 13 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:41.960 the century at Frank's funeral. He just he just he 14 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:46.600 caught his whole life just beautifully as only a son could. 15 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.600 It was I was, I was sitting with the other 16 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:53.439 Paul Bears, as you know, and all of us were 17 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:59.640 we're grabbing for Kleenex because Scott brought him right right 18 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.479 to so he recapped his life so beautifully. 19 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:05.680 I'll ask you the same question to start that I've 20 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.000 asked all of our guests, that included of course Smitty 21 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:10.319 and Scott. We had Phil Johnson on earlier. We're going 22 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:12.120 to bring in Ron McBride coming up in the five 23 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:15.439 o'clock hour. But your thoughts on the life and legacy 24 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:17.719 of Frank Layton. What did Frank Layton mean to you? 25 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:27.560 Well, he meant everything to me. When I joined the 26 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:33.040 Jazz in nineteen eighty three, twenty seven years old, I 27 00:01:33.079 --> 00:01:39.760 had never run a lemonade stand and Sam Badistone, on 28 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:44.719 the recommendation of David Stern, brought me in and handed 29 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:48.359 the rings to me and said, you know, David told 30 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.439 me you you'd be able to save this franchise and 31 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:55.040 keep it here. And David told me to give everything 32 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:55.400 to you. 33 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:58.079 And I really did not know. 34 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:02.840 All of the steps that we'd have to take to 35 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:08.919 turn into a franchise that wasn't rumored to move, wasn't 36 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:12.039 going to leave Salt Lake, wasn't going to go into bankruptcy, 37 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:15.319 he wasn't going to merge with the Denver Nuggets. Just 38 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:18.840 you can't imagine the time that it was. But the 39 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:23.240 first guy reached out to was a coach and general manager, 40 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.680 Frank Layden. And I'll never forget how he He came 41 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:30.000 to the Salt Palace to meet with me on my 42 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:35.159 second day of work, and he came in. He was 43 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:39.680 he was driving a car that the franchise had given 44 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:42.560 to him to drive. And you know, here he is 45 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:46.360 like the head guy, coach, head coach, general manager. He's 46 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.599 driving this Toyoda wagon that that looked like it had 47 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:56.680 been trashed that the Dealership of Choice had given him. 48 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:02.400 But you know what his his great his great dignity is. 49 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:08.039 I came away. I remember coming home, Dohn and saying 50 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:13.159 to your mom, this guy is incredible. He knows everything 51 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:16.680 about the game, he knows everything about his job. He's 52 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:21.719 just never been given the support and tools here that 53 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:26.639 he needs to really build something special. And that's my job. 54 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:31.400 Give him the money, give him the freedom, give him 55 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:37.000 the ability instead of drafting, you know, drafting players and 56 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:41.719 having to sell them as they as the Jazz had 57 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:47.680 to do famously. You know, I wanted to give Frank 58 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:52.039 Laden everything he needed to hire the best people, the 59 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:56.560 best coaches, to draft the best players, and we were 60 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:59.039 going to be about winning. And when I said that 61 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:03.120 to him, he said, that is music to my ears. 62 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.240 But you know, he had never said that publicly. He 63 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:12.879 always defended uh Sam and and Sam's willingness to bring 64 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:19.079 the team to Salt Lake. But but that that became 65 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:23.240 my goal and we became great partners in spite of 66 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.879 the fact that he'd grown up in New York, I 67 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:30.480 grew up in Utah. In spite of the fact that 68 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.839 that I had I had no experience in the NBA 69 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:37.439 and he had all this experience. All he showed me 70 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:43.319 my whole life, my whole life was nothing but loyalty 71 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:48.680 and dignity. He's he's one of the best people I've 72 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:53.399 ever met, by far. I mean, he he had a 73 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:57.000 character about him that was that was full of goodness 74 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:01.480 and could he be tough, Yes, he could be tough. 75 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:04.240 And he and I, he and I only had one 76 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:06.920 run in the whole time we worked together, and it 77 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.560 was over something stupid that had been said during a 78 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:13.399 game time promotion, and he just let me have it. 79 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:15.839 And I went right back at him and I said, 80 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:19.720 Frank Book, I know I made a mistake, but we 81 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:23.720 have always we've treated each other with great dignity. And 82 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:28.240 you know what, he apologized like immediately, he just said 83 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:31.240 I'm so sorry that there were other things on his mind, 84 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.680 and all of the rest of the time to the 85 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:39.199 most difficult moments, especially Adrian Dantley holding out on him 86 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:47.399 and not reporting the camp and David Falk, his agent, 87 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:53.519 just disrespecting the team, the franchise and us. Frank and 88 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:58.399 I were just arm in arm. We were in lockstep, lockstep, 89 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:03.240 and I really believe, you know, he turned it around 90 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:07.040 because we got into tools. He needed to do it. 91 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:10.839 And but in terms of what he meant to me, 92 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:16.680 I can't I can't even I can't even say, I 93 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:23.120 can't even say he was He was the most valuable 94 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:29.000 friend and mentor I could ever imagine, in not just 95 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:33.000 in basketball, but in life, because we talked about life 96 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:37.639 a lot. We talked about raising kids, we talked about 97 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.800 how to treat your wife, we talked about character. He 98 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:48.319 loved people of character, and he taught me so very much. 99 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.480 And one of the other is the last thing I'll say. 100 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:55.399 I don't think there's any way I didn't have a 101 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.040 choice when when Larry and I decided we could not 102 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.439 we could no longer work together, I didn't have a choice. 103 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:06.800 I had to leave. But I loved the NBA and 104 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.040 I got my dream job because the Knicks were the 105 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:14.399 team of my childhood and Spencer, you know this. I 106 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:17.639 never could have gone to New York and she sheeted 107 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:22.120 without having first been prepared by the all time New 108 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:26.920 Yorker Frank Layden. He got me ready for what was 109 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.959 a really tough job back there. But he just he 110 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:36.639 taught me so many principles about winning and championship, culture 111 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.639 and character, and I took it all in. I was 112 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:44.519 just a sponge with him, and it allowed me, I think, 113 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.079 for you know, to have a decade of success with 114 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:51.000 the Knicks and Madison Square Garden. 115 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.560 You know, Dave, we were we were talking about some 116 00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:00.759 of those qualities of Coach Laden's an earlier segment with Johnson, 117 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.399 and I made the uh the analogy that to me, 118 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:09.120 it was a little bit like the recent documentary that 119 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:13.319 came out about Yogi Bearra and his granddaughter who did 120 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:16.720 this film and researched all the information and said that 121 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.399 that her her grandfather was known you know as the 122 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:23.879 quote the quote master and the storyteller and all that 123 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:26.800 kind of stuff, but nobody really gave him his due 124 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.199 for for who he really was as a baseball player, 125 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:33.240 you know, game in and game out, and his numbers 126 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:35.320 over the years and all of that kind of stuff. 127 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.600 And when you look at him, you know, his number 128 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:42.080 is far surpassed almost everybody else. Uh In baseball during 129 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.399 that time, and and also as a catcher in the game, 130 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:48.960 and we were saying, how how that somehow, you know, 131 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:54.440 sometimes uh uh came over into how Frank was viewed 132 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:57.000 by the public because he was a funny guy and 133 00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.799 told stories and and did the stuff he did and 134 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:05.000 public facing away, but behind the scenes, a lot of 135 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:08.720 people don't know what kind of X and O's tactician 136 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:11.279 he was as a coach. You know, how he was 137 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:14.080 in the front office, how he managed the people, and 138 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:18.240 all the things he did actually run the franchise in 139 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:21.519 the early days when it was teetering, and all the 140 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:24.559 things he had to do to keep all those, if 141 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.279 you will, all those plates spinning on top of the 142 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:30.559 on top of the sticks in order none of them 143 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:34.320 fall off. And what great skill he had in doing 144 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:35.559 all of that kind of stuff. 145 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:42.639 He was amazing and not only skilled and smart, but 146 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:47.120 so caring and so committed. And I'm not sure he ever, 147 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:51.200 I mean, even though he had those nice accolades Coach 148 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:55.960 of the Year, Executive of the Year in eighty four 149 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.799 when they won the Midwest Division title my first year 150 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:02.240 with the team, So I got spoiled quickly because that 151 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:05.559 just started a run of when we just made the 152 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:10.159 playoffs every year that we were together, Frank and I, 153 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:15.240 and it's because of the job that he did not exs, 154 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.440 not just excess and those, but his leadership, his support 155 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:24.600 is mentoring. I thought of a funny story, Spencer that 156 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:31.720 I'll never forget. I was, of course, negotiating player contracts 157 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:36.639 and trying to get players signed as quickly as I could, 158 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.320 to always get guys in the camp and make sure 159 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:42.720 we had the best players on the floor. And I 160 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:45.080 was right in the middle of the Dantley holdout, and 161 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:49.320 I'm just so angry about all of that. But there 162 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:53.320 was a time later on Frank was still coaching where 163 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.240 we were almost done with a contract extent for Mark Eaton, 164 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:08.519 and he's Mark Eaton's agent. Keith Glass just wouldn't give 165 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:13.200 up on this one stupid incentive he wanted in Mark's contract. 166 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.799 He wanted an incentive that if Mark led the team 167 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:23.879 in rebounding that he got an extra twenty five thousand dollars. 168 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:29.519 And I I went to coach Laden and I said, Okay, Frank, 169 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:31.600 this is the last thing we need to do. If 170 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.279 we do this, he'll sign this new five year extension 171 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.960 we'll be done with him and we can carry on. 172 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.120 And he said, what is it And I said, he 173 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:44.840 wants a twenty five thousand dollars bonus if he leads 174 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:49.759 the team in rebounding. And he said, no, no, I'm 175 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:53.600 not doing that. We're not doing that because you know 176 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.399 that's exactly what we need, is him trying to take 177 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.919 rebounds away from whoever's on the other side of the 178 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.480 free throw lane so he can add to his numbers. 179 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:07.240 We're just not going to do that. And I said, Frank, 180 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.720 it's like twenty five thousand dollars in a contract that 181 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:15.320 was paying eating probably something like four or five hundred 182 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:16.600 thousand dollars. 183 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:17.159 At the time. 184 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.759 And I said, this is all we need to get 185 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:25.240 this done. This thing will be behind us. We'll have 186 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:30.120 him for five years. And Frank said, Dave, you know what, 187 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.960 this is your deal. You do what you want. But 188 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:37.799 I say, no, I'm against and so I went back. 189 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:41.559 I negotiated for so long on this contract that I 190 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.000 went back to Keith Glass and I said, Keith, if 191 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.360 you tell me this is the very last deal, I'm 192 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:52.600 doing this against my coaches wishes, but I'll do it 193 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:57.799 just just to have it behind us, and Keith said, 194 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:01.039 that's the last thing. We have a deal. So we 195 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:05.799 signed the contract, and it was a full two years later. 196 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:09.279 It was two years after we signed that contract that 197 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:13.080 we're playing in a very tight game at home. I 198 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.039 think it was against the Mavericks and we're at home 199 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.919 and on a certain free throw I don't remember. I 200 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:23.759 think it was Rolando Blackman shooting a free throw out. 201 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:27.399 It's I can remember the moment like it was yesterday. 202 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:32.639 And he makes the first free throw and misses the second, 203 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.240 and Eaton goes up to grab the rebound, just as 204 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.960 Malone does as well, and neither one of them yielded 205 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:46.720 to the other, and they tipped the ball in went 206 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.960 in the basket, and Scotty, you remember where I used 207 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.879 to sit on the second row, just down from press row, 208 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.159 and I see Rank marching toward me. We're in the 209 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.960 middle of a game and I'm sitting with my I'm 210 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.120 sitting with my family, and he comes over and stands 211 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.399 right in front of me and he says, so, Dave, 212 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.000 what do you think about your I'll leave out the 213 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:25.120 word what do you think about her incentive? Now he 214 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.799 inserted a little admit, what do you think about your 215 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:33.919 blank you're blank, He's blanking incentive. Now, what do you 216 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.360 think about it now? And he stands there like i'mus answering, 217 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:46.559 and I just am shrugging my shoulders, like I'm so sorry. 218 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.039 Scott, and Dad, I want to get your inside in 219 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:51.440 this too. You know, Frank did something that really nobody does. 220 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:53.720 And he would joke in later years that if he 221 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:55.799 knew coaches, we're going to be paid four five six 222 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.879 million dollars a year. Maybe he would have stuck around. 223 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:02.799 But he retires in nineteen eighty eight, and as the 224 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.639 legend goes, he had just been ejected from a game 225 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.200 by Earl Strom after getting into a shouting match with 226 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:14.080 Darryl Walker. But he also talked Scott about his desire 227 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.960 to spend time with Barbara, with your mother and with 228 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.279 the family, and you know, just kind of live his 229 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.919 life a little bit. And you know, Jerry of course 230 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.000 takes over and the rest is history. But Scott will 231 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.600 start with you, then Dad will go to you on this. 232 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.080 Can you shed some insight onto into exactly what that 233 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:32.120 was like for him to walk away from a team 234 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.759 that he had built it was ready to win at 235 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:34.559 a very high level. 236 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:40.240 I think I think the probably I mean, this may 237 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:43.600 be an oversimplification, but I think I think it was 238 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:48.559 a selfless act at the time. And you know, while 239 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:54.559 while I think he had, you know, enjoyed coaching, I 240 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.159 think he I think he felt good about coaching, He 241 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:03.120 felt good about the team. But I also think he 242 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.279 understood where there was a little bit of a tipping 243 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.720 point that if we waited too long, we could lose 244 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.360 you know, a great coach, and coach Sloan and his 245 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:18.679 selflessness I think allowed him to step away. And and 246 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.519 the other thing is and and Dave knows this well 247 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:27.840 because they were really close, is that he had other, 248 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:32.440 you know, other interests. It did like he wasn't he 249 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:38.759 wasn't beholden to just basketball. He had so many other 250 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.320 things that he he wanted to do and he wanted 251 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.360 to do with my mom and my brother and sister. 252 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:48.320 So it wasn't like he needed, you know, that that's 253 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:50.399 all he could do. He was more of a renaissance 254 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:55.600 man than not. And he also loved being out in 255 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:59.639 the community and travel and and so I think he 256 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.279 I think he was comfortable with where he was and 257 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.839 what he had done. And now you know, it was 258 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:12.359 Jerry's time, and no one was more supportive of Jerry 259 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.480 Sloane than my dad, because if you look at coach 260 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.200 Johnson and you look at coach Sloan as as when 261 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:25.319 they were assistants, they were both capable of being head coaches, 262 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.799 for sure, but both of them were so fiercely loyal, 263 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.079 and I'd say it was a great quality. It was 264 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:35.480 a great lesson for me. They were both fiercely loyal 265 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:39.039 to my dad and that's what made those relationships work. 266 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.920 So when it came time, I think it was easy 267 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.720 for my dad to say, you know what this is, 268 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:48.799 this is Jerry's time, So. 269 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:50.599 Yeah, well go over to you. I wonder you know 270 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:54.200 when Frank came to you with that decision, what that 271 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.680 was like, and how eventually it went from Frank to Jerry. 272 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.839 It happened over quite a long period of time. Right 273 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:09.599 after training camp that season, he started to make noise 274 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.200 like that. When I would talk to him, he'd say, 275 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.119 Dave Man, I don't know if I can do this. 276 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.599 And we had had keep in mind that I think 277 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.440 our coming out party was nineteen at the end of 278 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:27.119 the the seventy or the seventh, let's see eighty seven 279 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:31.200 eighty eight season, when we played the Lakers in a 280 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.799 seven game series. They would go on to win the championship, 281 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.720 but we played them in a very tough seven game series, 282 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:43.359 and actually when we came home for Game six, we 283 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.440 blew them out like one oh six to eighty on 284 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:51.640 our floor and set up a big Game seven, which 285 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:57.920 we lost in La. But I was surprised because he was. 286 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:01.880 He started making noise right after training camp about I 287 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.200 hate getting on airplanes, I hate all the travel, I 288 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.759 hate the hotel rooms. All of a sudden, he said, 289 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.559 it's just it's just gotten old for me. And I said, 290 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:16.759 but Frank, we finally have a team. We finally have 291 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:20.279 a team that can do something really special. I mean 292 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:23.359 really special. You saw what we did with the World 293 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:27.880 Champs last year. This year could be better. We should 294 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:30.920 be better. And don't you want to stick around to 295 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.599 enjoy it? But he said, he would keep saying I 296 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:39.119 just don't have it. I just don't I just don't 297 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:45.279 feel it. But all these years later, I have concluded 298 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.440 that there was something else to play with him. And 299 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.720 you know he'll never he'll never confirm this. He would 300 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.519 never acknowledge it, even though I pushed him over the 301 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.079 years to say, I know what was up with for 302 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.920 you then, And what was up was he did not 303 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:08.559 want he did not want if he stepped down. He 304 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:14.200 wanted Larry and me to have no choice. He wanted 305 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.279 it to be Jerry Sloan. And the best way to 306 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:21.559 do that would be to resign mid season, because I mean, 307 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:25.640 we're not going to conduct a search then and select 308 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:31.880 somebody else. I wouldn't have anyway, but Larry always talked about, 309 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.119 you know, if Frank ever steps down, we're going to 310 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:39.920 have to do a search. And I knew. I think 311 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.240 we all knew that Jerry, even though he'd been fired 312 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.599 in Chicago, we knew he was a great, great coach 313 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:50.519 and a person of great character. I think Frank did 314 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:56.079 that totally to force our hands. I've never said this publicly, 315 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.839 but I think he did it totally to force our hand, 316 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.240 to make sure that this guy who had been so 317 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:05.920 loyal to him and was so ready for the job, 318 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:06.960 got the job. 319 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:10.720 And as I remember that, Dave, if my memory serves 320 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.880 me correct, I think we had a game in the 321 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:18.200 in the Salt Palace on a Wednesday night, came in 322 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:22.519 Thursday morning announced to the team that that he was 323 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.200 stepping down immediately as the head coach, and Jerry was 324 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.359 running practice that morning, and Jerry ran ran the practice 325 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:32.839 and then the team got on a flight that afternoon. 326 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:34.680 I think it was to go to Dallas for a 327 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.400 game Friday night, and it was just you know, just 328 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.160 as you say, it was just like, we don't have 329 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:41.799 any time to do anything else. This is what we 330 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:43.839 have to do. We have to do this thing. And 331 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.480 because we got a game with one night. 332 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.559 Yeah, and we had, I mean all of us had 333 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:52.039 agreed the night before that that's what we would do. 334 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.599 And Larry came in too. Larry Miller walked into the 335 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.240 dressing room well and we left Frank announce that he 336 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:05.119 was stepping aside and that Jerry was was going to 337 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.960 take over. And then Larry said, I want to just 338 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.359 say one thing, and he looked at the mailman. I 339 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:18.039 remember him giving the mailman at Death's there, and he 340 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:23.839 gave him this look and he said, this was Frank's 341 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:29.880 decision and only Frank, he was nobody else had anything 342 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.880 to do with this. This is totally his decision. Because 343 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:36.880 he thought Larry thought the players would would think that 344 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.480 he had he had pushed Frank out. He wanted he 345 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.079 wanted the players to know, and this was true. It 346 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:44.759 was totally Frank. 347 00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:49.119 We're chatting with Scott Laden live in Vegas, Dave Checkets 348 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:51.599 live in New York, Richard Smith live in Salt Lake City. 349 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:53.839 I know both of you have to go, so we'll 350 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.559 in with this and Scott will start with you, and 351 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:59.200 then Dad, we'll go to you. I wonder whether it's 352 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.319 pearls of wisdom, pieces of advice, funny saints, and I 353 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.519 know there's a lot there. If you could share any 354 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:11.079 of the great lessons you learned from Frank before I 355 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:12.839 said both of you lose. Scott will start with you. 356 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:21.519 Oh, there were many I hastened to do this, but 357 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:24.599 I said this the other night or the other day 358 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:30.680 at the during the eulogy, he had all these things 359 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.319 and they were coming at us constantly. Words of advice. 360 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.119 Whenever you go in a restaurant, immediately go in the bathroom, 361 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:45.000 because whoever cleans the bathroom cleans the kitchen. Always leave 362 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:51.960 a place better than you found it. Now, clearly Utah, 363 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:55.480 Salt Lake City, the jazz were better than he found 364 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:00.200 it when he left. Never refuse a breath, mint that 365 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:05.200 sound advice and then my favorite and this is where 366 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:09.519 I'm nervous, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Never trust 367 00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:13.759 a man with two first names. So I said, I 368 00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:17.599 said that what I don't understand. What what do you 369 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.839 mean by that? He said, we'll think about it. Son, 370 00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:30.480 Mike Lee, Lindsey Graham, Paul Ryan. Oh my god, my 371 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:35.839 daughter is my speech writer, so he said. He said, 372 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.519 you know, I'm not a member of any organized political party. 373 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:43.440 I'm a Democratic. And today's day and age. In today's 374 00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:47.480 day and age, it's like it's so poignant. But during 375 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.799 the last several months, I can't tell you how many 376 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.079 nurses came into his room and I said, coach, thank 377 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.880 you so much. You're the only room in the hospital 378 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:08.960 that has Rachel matt Ol and MSNBC. I'll leave it there. 379 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:10.279 I'm sorry. 380 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:11.559 I'll tell you. 381 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.960 I got to tell you something because I worked with Smitty, 382 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.599 I worked with Spencer when he was a young man. 383 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:27.480 I can't I just can't get over that Internet that 384 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:34.039 worked for me is now this radio. I don't know, 385 00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:36.240 You're like you're a dynamo. I just can't get over 386 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.559 with you. Know, it's You're like, no, I can't believe 387 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:42.440 you're the same person. And then I'm telling you I 388 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:46.000 loved and I told him the other night, I loved 389 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:50.880 working for day check Its because every day was competitive, 390 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:55.480 it was intense, and we were focused on winning it all. 391 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.799 And that's I appreciate the opportunity to have worked with 392 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:01.759 you guys, and obviously work with my dad. 393 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:03.960 So thank you, thank you for those words, Scott. 394 00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:10.960 Dad will win with you, Oh Scottie, the opposite is true. 395 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:16.079 You were just a joy always to work with and 396 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.680 and you know to shoe you work with your dad. 397 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:25.000 Everything from the lucky ties you know, to you all 398 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:29.279 everything we did to try and win. My favorite thoughts 399 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.559 from Frank I'll just offer up too. I know he 400 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:36.200 said never trust a man with two names, but he 401 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:39.519