Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dan Favelli coming
at you with yet another twenty twenty four to twenty
twenty five NBA look Ahead. We are on to the
Houston Rockets, which means it's time to speak with the homie.
Salmon Ali covers the Houston Rockets for Red Nation Hoops
does a fantastic job of doing so. Follow him on
the Twitter machine at Salmon Ali MBA. That's at s
A L M A n A l I NBA. Also
subscribe to Red Nation Hoops the link that would be
in the YouTube and podcast description gonna cover everything all.
Houston Rocket's a really electric team when you look at
the talent that they have in place in the future
that they could have moving forward. So I'm excited to
get to chat with him. And if this is your
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as always too. The link is in the podcast and
YouTube description. Let's talk Houston Rockets with Salmon Ali Salman,
How is it going? Welcome back? This is I don't
know how many look had you've done. I have a
notation down you've been on the podcast so many times
independent of it, I don't actually have track. I'm pretty
sure this is at least like your fourth or fifth
year of being on the pod for the Look Ahead.
So thank you for coming back. How the heck are
you good?
Speaker 2: All right, let's just call it my debut. How about
that your debut?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's look it around the debut of Salmon Ali
on the on the Ardwoodknox podcast. Right. Uh, the Houston
Rockets though super just. I mean, like they didn't do
much this offseason. They drafted Rechepherd, they made that trade
where they give the Nets back control over their next
two picks to get some long term equity mostly related
to the Phoenix Suns. When you kind of look at that,
what do you think it says about the position that
they're trying to hold or formulate. Is it just kind
of we want to see what we have, but we
also want to be built to strike if if like
a really big opportunity comes along, does it doesn't infer
something else? Where are you at with that?
Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. I mean before the offseason,
I kind of thought they were gonna do nothing. Like
I said on my podcast, was like, yeah, this is
not gonna be much like we're they're gonna draft somebody,
they're gonna re sign. Uh, they're gonna pick up these options,
these team options, and that's that. They're gonna call it
a day because there's not they're not really incentivized to
do much. Uh, like they still don't have enough data
on these young They need to collect as much as
they can before they make real decisions. Uh, you know,
obviously keep smelling around for opportunities. If something that you
can't turn down comes up, then strike. But if something
that you have to really think about comes up, you
air to the cautious side because you don't want to
trade someone away that ends up becoming a four time MVP,
right because they're that these players are so young that
it's really hard to determine like if someone's good, like
how good are they? If someone's great, like how great?
Like you know, like it's we're just we're just way
too early in this.
Speaker 1: And I think part of that is when you look
at the flexibility they could have next summer in twenty
twenty five, a lot of that is going to be
predicated on not extending Jalen Green, Ralphern Shankun, and they
could preserve some because they can have a shit ton
of cap space. It's I call it choose your own
adventure cap space because there's so many different permutations they
could take where he is. That's like sort of the
last piece of off season business that feels like it
could fall for this team would be if they extended
either of those guys. Would you be would you expect
them to would you be surprised if they did. If
you had to pick one is going to get an extension,
who do you think it would be?
Speaker 2: Neither were making good extensions. And it's it's not a
determination on Blair quality. It's purely the way this organization
is operated for decades, right They they keep option optionality
open at all at all costs. Look at Daryl Morey
in Philly and what they did with Tyrese MAXI. This
is the same GM tree, right, Like they're gonna they're
gonna operate the same way. They want to retain uh
the lowest possible cap hold they can, and particular when
you look at Alpraa and Shangoon, like that cap hold
is just it's too juicy not to keep on your books, right,
Like Jalen Green, if you get to bump, like yeah,
it'll unpack your your books a little bit. But it's
not really because he was a second overall pick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, his holds like close to his max anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so it's it's not something that with Jalen
it's more about the long term, right, Like it's like
do you want to give this guy a massive Yeah?
Do you want to give this yeah a contract period?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: All that like what kind of deal do you want
to give Jalen shan Gun. He's gonna get a MAX
like everyone knows it. It's just a matter of who
gives it to him. Like and when I say who
gives it to him? I mean like, is it gonna
be another team in restricted free agency? Is it gonna
be the Rockets next summer? You know? Like that's basically
like how it happens that that's where we're at with
Albryn Schinkun. He's proven that he's that good. It's really
he has When is Jalen going to prove that he
is that good?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Is he going to prove that he's that good?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: That's what this season is all about. Uh. Like I
talked about, I may have been even on this show.
I don't believe in third year leaps for players drafted
as young as Jalen. I believe in fourth year leaves.
I think NBA history is always told you gotta look
at that year, that age twenty two season. People who
talk about third year leaps, I think it's an outdated term.
I think it's probably from the time that player guys
went to college for two years and then then the
third year leap was actually the age twenty two season. Really,
when you're talking about guys going to college for one year,
or in Jalen's case, did you league, it's that third
it's that fourth season, that that age twenty two season.
So I think if we're gonna see a leap, it's
gonna happen now. So if it happens, great, he's then
he'll get that contract. It might even happen in season right,
because again, there's no benefit to waiting. If the capital
we just talked about it, it's not that much of
a difference. But if it doesn't happen, then maybe we
talked about them waiting for the iron to get hot
to strike. That might happen in February. You know.
Speaker 1: That's a great point, and that would be the argument
for because I think there would be a line of
thought where like, if Jalen Green is willing to sign
for a number that is substantially less than his cap hold,
you could say, well, might make sense to just resign him.
But if you're trying to keep yourself, it's just easier
to move him if he doesn't sign any extension because
of the poison pill provision. So that would be the
argument of just like don't give even if he was, like,
you know, if he said four for one hundred, that's
a number that you probably at least have to think about.
But I don't think that he would want to take
something that low. And you mentioned a leap for him,
What does that look like? Is it just him playing
the way he does from like mid February on starting
in October?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that it's not even mid February on. Really
it's Mark. It's Mark. I'm trying to be kind here, right, Yeah,
So like if he if he has a March season
right like that, then then yeah, then that that's that's
what a leap looks like. It's really a matter of
shooting consistency. That's the biggest thing with him. Uh his
jump shot is just so erratic. It's very very streaky.
He can't straight together your four good games, right Like.
It's really like if he has like a hot shooting month,
even in that great shooting month, it's like out of
four games will have like three ridiculous games and one dud,
right Like, It's it's that streaky. So can he be
more consistent with that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Can can he? Uh continue with the great progress. He
may gain to the free throw line into year four? Right,
can he build out his body more? Can can that
handle become tighter? Right? Like that that handle is still
too loose, right, It's it got better last year, it's
still too loose. Right? Can you get better operating and
pick and roll? Right? Like, that's the biggest thing. Right,
If he's gonna be a superstar, if he's gonna be
an all star much the superstar, he's got to be
an amazing pick and roll operator. He's just not there yet.
Speaker 1: Do you see the potential for him to do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? But again, like so then then the next question
is like, okay, so how much does that player work?
And is that player worth building the whole franchise around?
Because you look at the guys that you think of
in this mode. It's like Devin Booker, it's Bradley bo
It's Zach Lavine. Like this is the spectrum you're looking
at it, right, Like yeah, like and so even if
you get to the higher end of that, the highest
end of that spectrum, Devin Booker is like what the
tenth the best player in the NBA maybe twelfth, right
like like like that that's that guy's great, right, Like,
don't get me wrong, I don't mean to diminish him.
He's not He's not gonna have to be the best
player on a championship team, right, So, like you still
have to weigh all that, and it may still end
up if that's the case, it may be end up
it may end up being worth trading him anyways, because
then you can get more financial flexibility because you're gonna
have to. You can't resign all six of these guys,
or I should say seven now, right, So I think
at this point you got to you kind of have
to pick and choose when you when you pay your players,
which players to pay, and if you can just like
push one guy off to the side where you don't
have to pay him, right, then you're down to six
guys you have to choose between. Right, We're is that's
that you know, in a lot of respects, Like obviously
you want all your players to hit, but if one
player hits it off, it almost makes your decisions much easier, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, they're in an unique situation because both him
and Alperin Shangun are on that exact same timeline and
like considered big money tickets, but aside from the Alpern,
Shangoun and Jalen Green just futures. What is the You know,
I dictate too much of how these podcasts go. So
what's the biggest storyline that you're looking at following tracking
as we head into this season?
Speaker 2: So I was gonna say Jalen, but but I guess
if I can't pick Jalen, I want to see a
man like. I really like a man is like sneaky like.
I have him tied with Shangun as most intriguing prospect
on this team right like he might he may have
the highest upside in this team alongside Shangun.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 2: He is just so unique and so multi dimensional and like,
obviously the weaknesses are there, but because the strengths are
so strong, he is a great finisher. He's an uber athlete.
He is already very strong defensive player. I could see
him Dan. I know this is crazy. I know this
is like a serious NBA podcast. I could see him
challenging for All defensive second team next year. That's how
good he is.
Speaker 1: If he is the playing time under his belt, I
don't think that's wild at all, just based off what
we've seen from him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's crazy. I've never seen a rookie. I mean,
obviously I cover the rockets, my scope is a little
bit limited, but like, I've never seen a rookie that
good defensively, but particularly a wing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wemby is probably the best defensive rookie I've ever
seen since Tim Duncan at least, and I wasn't really
I was too young when he was a rookie, but
as a wing. Yeah, I mean even if you look
at some of the.
Speaker 2: Players Simmons, right, like Ben Simmons, like that, that's like
the last one I could think of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a good point. So, I mean i'd
be curious. I think I don't think voters would give
it to a sophomore who is it at Wemby, But
I do think that he could be on the level
of just like he will be in the conversation, because
he's that dominant defensively and the tools that he has,
like it's the counting stats, it'll be the advanced metrics,
and then just like he watched the eye test and
he is dominant on the defensive.
Speaker 2: End, right, and so like that, that's that's who I
want to watch, because you know what Funny enough, he's
the exact same age as these guys as Jalen and
shanng Goon. Like he was drafted last year. He was
just an older rookie. That's why it sneaks up on you.
But he's kind of in that age twenty two season too, right,
So if you're gonna see a leap naturally, like you
may see one from him too. So I kind of
group all those three guys together in terms of like, hmm,
like let's see what what what level can they take
it to?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: What's their next logical extension? And obviously everyone's gonna be looking
at the jump shot. I think the jump shot just okay,
Like this sounds bad. I'm I tend to believe, like
my gut instinct put a gun to my head, that
just may be broken, right like that, that that just
may be like one of the like the base that
you're starting from such a low baseline that you just
make you shouldn't bank developmentally on that becoming a thing.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I think what I'm more interested in seeing is can
he become like his ceiling as a player is that
higher than Alper and Shinguns? And if it is? Okay, now,
I gotta make a decision, right because I don't think
those two can coexist because of the limited jump shot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and that's I mean, let's let's get into
that because that's been a big topic. And we saw
men Thompson like kind of hit his sweet spot offensively
without Alpera and Shang Gun and because he's doing a
lot of the off ball work, and so in theory,
you look at you know, Alman Thompson, not if he
doesn't have the ball as much like, okay, then why
can't if it with Alprin Shangun? You mentioned the jumper stuff,
And so that's where it does get super awkward because
with Aman Thompson's development, if you need to find out
if he's more important to you than Shangun, don't you
need to get to a point where he has more
on ball reps. And I know this isn't like, let
me be clear, I know the Rockets weren't a heavy
pick and roll team, but he's averaging under three pick
and rolls per thirty six minutes last year. That's like
you need to see more. And even just like the drives,
those were pretty low per thirty six minutes. So how
do you because you have Shangun and also some of
these other guys, Like how do you go about like
something like is are you just gonna have to make
some tough calls or there are gonna be things that
fall by the wayside? Does it really is some of
this like Alpert and Shangun might have to adapt or
you just get to a point where you're like really
rigidly staggering them, Because I do think if you need
to figure out how good a man is gonna be,
and like if you also want him to develop, I'm
with you on the jumper, like it'd be nice if
he gets it. But it's almost like, well, if he
could start hitting more of those floaters like that we
saw some of those from him, with those going at
a higher clip and he's taking them at a higher frequency,
that's at least a different level to his offensive game.
But he needs the reps to have that, and you're
not I would assume you're not gonna have that in
the core core lineups because of Alpern, Shangun and some
of these other guys, And so can you get to
that like enough of that with the secondary units?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's almost a credit to him that
he was. He was as sufficient as he was playing
that it wasn't even a secondary. He was playing a
tertiary where he's playing off the ball. He was playing
like andre I Guodala like yeah, or.
Speaker 1: Like even Aaron Gordon esque at points, like kind of
floating around the dunker spot. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, it was like and he he was still effective,
which is like that that's why he's so impressive, right, Like,
like the role he was cast in, you didn't expect
anything from him, and he was still what the hell?
Like what is this?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like, and like it's not that no one didn't think
he was talented, it's that we we thought the jumper
was gonna be such a big thing, right, it was
gonna be such a like he's a guard who can't shoot, right,
so you like that's really hard to adapt to in
the NBA. But he was still effective, was to all positive.
As a rookie guard who can't shoot threes, that's really impressive.
So yeah, I mean, I don't know how you do it.
I'm not I'm not gonna lie. I don't have an
answer for you, because that guard, that guard rotation is
really really I mean, you got Van Vliet you got Green,
you got Whitmore.
Speaker 1: Read Chepper, you.
Speaker 2: Got Sheppard now and Shepperd's not even gonna be able
to play, to be honest, Like, he's probably not gonna
be able to play this first year and maybe unless
guys get hurt. I see him being a G league
guy and that's not a big that's not really a
big deal. Like More was the league guy until guys
got hurt. Right, But that's just the state of play
when you look at like, like, how how do you
can You're gonna have a fifteen man rotation? You can't
do that right right?
Speaker 1: That is so I mean I would say with amend
specifically to devotes on him, like to wrap it up.
I wonder if they can, just I feel like not
if they can, they can. I think the best way
he might be okay, like the jabbar minutes without shanguon
where he's your five, and like that's when a men
needs to be playing most and you get him the
on ball reps because you don't have to deal with
not occupying the same space. But some of the floor
spacing issues. You could surround those two with shooters. I mean,
can't wait more qualify. That would Honestly, I was gonna float,
like make sure Reed Shepherd's in those lineups because of
his threat level off the ball, But you're talking about
whether he would struggle to get minutes and that, By
the way, I'm so high on Reed Shepherd, so like
you just have any early impressions of his game. I
was going to ask you about his role, but it
seems like you don't think he's gonna play much.
Speaker 2: It's it's not it has nothing to do with this talent, No,
I know that.
Speaker 1: It's just it's wild to think that the number three
pick without injury. And also when I do think he
brings like an element of what this offense needs wouldn't
be penciled in for like guaranteed minutes. But then you
start to look at their depth chart. We've said it
on this podcast a zillion times, the Rockets almost have
too many guys. It's like a good problem to have,
but it's like you run into a minute crunch there.
Speaker 2: Let's count him out. You have the seven, right, you have,
you have the seven draftees. Then you got the guys
that they signed Brooks, Green, van Vliet, that's ten, right,
and then you got I didn't even count Jock Landeal
and Steven Adams.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Steven Adams, Jashn Tate.
Speaker 2: Jayshn Tate. That's that's four guys. It's fourteen guys. Like
I wasn't kidding when I said, you can't play fifteen guys, right,
Like you have you have to figure out a way
to at least get it down to twelve, right, which
means you're gonna have to cut two guys, which and
I just tend to believe Reid being the rookie in
that crowded guard rotation is one of the obvious ones.
The other one is probably Jock Landale, right, Like I
just think Jock Mando's gonna be a d NPCD most nights. Yeah,
and and and like that's how you get That's how
you get to twelve.
Speaker 1: Is there? Like if Jalen struggles out of the gate though,
and like you're looking for the the element of because
the thing that impressed me most about Reed Shepherd was
like his ability to just get by guys and into
his pull up from mid range. And that's just like
if Jalen is having another couple of month where he
doesn't look so good as that I know you mentioned injuries.
But is that in any way like a pathway to
read Shepherd becoming more of an integold krag earlier.
Speaker 2: That's a path to jail in getting traded, right, Like
if he has a bad couple of months to start
the season, like he can't have Like, let's let's be
clear on how crucial this season this is for Jalen.
If if that happens what you're describing, he's gone. Because
we're talking October November, we're getting close to the trade deadline.
And if he has one one great month, is that
convincing enough to keep him?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Right, like that like that's how crucial that is for Jalen. So, yeah,
if he has a bad couple of months he make
the spot may may open up for him at the
trade deadline.
Speaker 1: I will say putting Shepherd in the G League is
intriguing from the sense, like you know he will get
on ball reps there. Yeah, and so like if you're
trying to figure out if he can run your entire offense,
that's great information. But I also wonder if it's not
that it's a disservice, but like is he oh organically
lethal away from the ball that you don't need Like
I'm sure they could try and focus on doing that
in the G League, But like it's reed Shephard, you
don't want it really off the ball in the G League.
I wonder I don't. I don't think that's a disservice.
I just wonder if it could delay it at all,
like his onset impact. But again it comes back to
the not to belabor the same point, but they just
have so much like you have to play this talent,
like it's you have to play talent that's on this
roster that I can see where it gets tough. And
also you're a team that like has semi immediate aspirations
in the sense that you were pretty good last year,
and so it makes sense that the rookie would kind
of fall by the wayside if your goal is to
be a playoff team, and then you could adjust your
rotation not only based off trades, but again based off
your record. If it's like January or Februe, you're not
as good as you expected, maybe you make some different
type of rotation decisions there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went on some show last year. I can't
I'm sorry, I'm really bad with names like so, I
think it was a Rockets. It was a Houston show,
Houston Sports show last year, and I remember saying that
Cam's not gonna play him in the G League all year,
and the host was kind of like what. I'm just like, yeah,
I mean count this out with me, guy, right, like
like like let's go through the names, right, and then
like we got to it's like, yeah, you're kind of right,
Like what about injuries? I'm like, yeah, but what about
injuries for any of anybody? Right, Like that's you're asking
me as a baseline. Yeah, he's not gonna play, And
that's what happened. You started the season, Cam didn't play,
and then guys got hurt he played, right, And like
that's kind of where like that's kind of how this works.
And you know, we talked a lot about how they
didn't do anything this summer. Right, if they were gonna
do something this summer, it would have been a consolidation
type trade where you gave a bunch of these guys
all together out for a star, right, because you don't
want to you don't want to trade those picks, right
when you can just trade players and open up minutes
for other guys as well as you know, consolidate the
assets to get a stronger asset. And that's the way
you want to do it, right. You want to trade
multiple young players for your whatever star you trade for, right,
that's the that's the way you prefer to structure the trade,
and that's the way you make the financials work too,
because I mean not Jalen Greed is not gonna make
a trade work just by himself, right, You're gonna need
to get a few more guys in there, so that
that would have been the opportunity to do it. I
guess February is another opportunity. We're just gonna have to see.
These next twelve months are gonna be so fascinating. The
urgency is gone for them a little bit because they
trade away these pics in the future. Right, So maybe
maybe you don't have to do anything. Maybe you can
just kind of like let this all marinate. But I
kind of think you have to start planning for the
future a little bit. When you look at the core.
You want to narrow down, right, because you as much
as I would love to keep all seven of these guys,
it's just not Practical's not practical.
Speaker 1: Where does Jabari Smith Junior land on that spectrum? Just
because I thought he improved basically everywhere last year. I
know a lot of people you focus on the three
point efficiency, but even the ball handling, the defense, the footwork,
the wire, the wire takes, he was just a lot better.
And yet on a team that's just so crowded, and
if you're about to maybe build your entire team around Shangun,
we'll have to see what they do with that when
it comes time for his next contract. On a team
with so many players to play, so many mouths to feed,
what does like the next level look like for him
in in Houston? And also, I think the question I'm
actually more intrigued by is does having Steven Adams, I
know he's older coming off that injury, does is that
going to infringe upon any of like the Jabbari at
the five stuff that we got to see last year.
Speaker 2: Probably that's but yeah, it's it's not great. But I
gotta say this, like Jabbari and Shanghun, there's no reason
that can't work. We've said it a few times now, right,
like not on this specific episode, but on episodes with you.
They their games compliment each other so well, and yeah,
you would like to see you would like to get
more data on Jabari at the five right because it
is a nice spaced out unit and you can do
a lot more on the perimeter with that spaced out units,
particularly with Aman Thompson right, he gets a lost space
to operate, but that front court theoretically in a vacuum
should be fine. And I don't think there's a as
far as Jabbar's future on the team. He has a
future on the team, that is what I'll say, Like like,
I don't see he's not in He's not in jeopardy
like because he's also thinking.
Speaker 1: In terms of his development, Like I'm curious where the
opportunity for like a role expansion would come for him.
When you look at the setup of him and Shanglun,
they compliment each other very nice. Look. Last year, Jabbar
Smith proved that he's like basically a universal fit, which
is huge. I just wonder like sort of like where
does he go from here? Not in a bad way
that I pin it on him, but it's like, what
does the next level on this Rockets team look like
for Jabari Smith Junior?
Speaker 2: More turnaround jumpers. I guess, Like I mean, I don't
say that pejoratively I mean, like I genuinely mean, like, yeah,
that's that's that's his bread and butter. Let's see more
of it. Let's see how efficient he can get at
that shot, right Like, like like the LaMarcus Aldridge kind
of area of the of the floor, right Like, that's
kind of like, uh, that was one of my projections
for him, Right Like I kind of thought like that's
a that's a nice career path for him if he
becomes a star, right Like, that's that's a kind of nice,
nice area to really explore. He and he can't he
can space out the floor, which LaMarcus couldn't into his
latter years. Right Like, that's something that you could you could,
you could you could do more with, right I don't.
I don't think there's uh there There shouldn't be any
reason you can't give him a couple more jumpers per game.
He also has to get a little bit more efficient
to really demand that, right Like, he did get more
efficient last year, right, And that's a credit I agree
with you, Like he improved the most year of a
year at anybody in the Rockets last year. That's how
bad he was his rookie season.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But but also like he was just on a different
level confidence wise, with the ball in his hands, operating, uh,
in transition, going end to end sometimes like shooting the
three ball. Obviously he got the jumper back, he got
the confidence back, and like you really saw a different
level of swagger with him, which which was encouraging. I
think you want to see, you know, where did you
shoot like thirty five percent on threes last year? Can
we get to like, Okay, we were talking about him
as one of the best shooting big prospects of all time,
right like that that was that's that was that was
the conversation, right like, like I think that I think
Sam Bessini at one point said he was one of
the best shooting prospects he's ever seen, period, right Like,
which is I don't say that's I don't say that
as like a oh, that's a ridiculous thing to say.
I think that was just the conversation around him. So
can he get to like high thirties in three point shooting?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Can he get to thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine
percent from three? Like that's something I'd like to see,
Like just like a little simple stuff. There's there's lots
of ways you can improve and there's nothing The structure
of the team I don't think should infringe on his will.
Speaker 1: I wasn't it structured. The team almost feels like it
fits Cam Whitmore's development to a t. You just look
at kind of the shot making, the rim pressure that
was all divined for him last year. I don't really
see the end of season assist hunting was kind of fun,
but I don't really see that like in his game permanently.
So if you just need him as this perimeter play finisher,
this feels like a perfect spot for him. What type
of I'm assuming his role is just gonna continue to expand,
even like within this jumbled pecking.
Speaker 2: Order, right, Yeah, he's such an undeniable force, and I don't.
Speaker 1: You're also dealing with two bigs in your primary bigs
and Jabari spits and outprin Shango and they're not getting
to the rim a ton. So to have that element
from Cam Whitmore seems absolutely massive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a man, right, Like he's different from these
other rookies, right, Like these other rookies are rookies, so
he's something else. Right, He is the youngest player. I
think he might still be the youngest player from the score.
I think might be read might be younger than him now,
but like he's among the youngest players of this core,
and he plays like among the oldest players on this
core because of how well built he is, right and
how physical he is getting to the basket, and just
how like like in terms of like fear in terms
of all these other rockets are like humans, and like
he's he's not right like like he's just like like
very robotic and like, this is what I'm gonna do
if if I don't make it whatever, if I make
it cool, right, Like it does not affect his face,
Like I watch his face all the time there are games.
It doesn't move, he doesn't frown, he doesn't laugh. He
has like a kind of like kind of like like
the same straight face. It's always even keel and like
like whenever I whenever I see guys like that, I'm like,
all right, Like Amend's like that, Amen's actually like that.
A man, a man will have like the craziest dunk
you've ever seen and just like run back on like
like no face, no face, right face. The two faceless
guys on the team a man in cam but Yeah,
just doesn't react and isn't phased by the by who's
in the game, what's going on around him, who he's defending,
and if Lebron's guarding him. He doesn't care. Right Like
he had that crazy game against the Lakers. I think
did he have thirty I'm not I can't remember. If
he had a lot of he had a lot of threes.
He had a lot of threes, and he had a
lot he had a lot of dunks. It was a
fun game. I'm not worried about Cam. K K Cam's awesome,
k K Cam is. It's stupid that he's on this team.
It's stupid that he's on this team. I'm gonna repeat
that again. It is very, very dumb that how many
nineteen teams passed on him or nineteen he got passed
up nineteen times? Rather yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I also it makes me so leads into my next
question because he in many ways to me, feels like
a better fit for this roster moving forward than at
Jailing Green because he's more a perimeter play finisher than
someone you want to have the ball. So when you
look at these guys, Cam Whitmore, Jalen Green, Jabari Smith,
and I'm in excuse me, cam Went Moore, Jabari Smith,
and Jalen Green, Like, how do you rank those guys
in terms of importance to this organization? And even throw like,
you know, maybe he's just at the bottom of like
Tari Easan in there, who we didn't see much of
last season, but it's just like this agent of defensive
chaos and like sort of the every team wants a
Tari Easan on their roster, Like, so how do you
sort of, you know, finagle that, because I think it
seems very clearly that Shanggun and Thomson, even if there's
a debate between who belongs at the top, it feels
like those two are like the top, and then Shepherd
you're just not at a point where you need to
figure out his place in this discussion. So it's kind
of these other four really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I actually did this exercise for my sub
stack last year actually in June, so not not that
long ago, and I put them in tears. So in
my first tier, I had potential number one guys and
I had two guys there. I had shang Gun and
I had I had Thompson. Right, Uh, so those are
the two guys that prioritize the most in the second tier.
I have it labeled headache free complimentary stars, Uh, Cam
Whitmore and Jabari Smith, like they're just there's not really
any any thinking involved with those two and development wise
and they're not going to infringe upon anybody. Uh and
in that last year, it's not it's not an insult
to them, it's not. I have Tari and I have Jalen, right,
and I think people are gonna see the Jalen thing.
It's like, oh, this guy's like like it's like, it's
not really that. I think Jalen's gonna be. I just
think they gave the Rockets, have drafted very very good
and that there might be five All Stars on this team, right,
and I think Tarry Easton's just just a hedge, like
just a hair better than him. But I think I
could see the case for Jalen being better.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But like that's how it would rank it. I would
I would say, you know, a men In and Shane Gooon.
I would probably picked between one of those two long term, uh,
the complimentary guys you know, Cam and Jabbari and the
one the guys you kind of have to really decide on,
like as in who you're gonna keep or I would
I would probably if I were to rename that category today,
I'd say trade bait category Tari and Jalen.
Speaker 1: Can I ask why Tari is not in the complimentary
tier just because I can say with someone who fits
any iteration of the rockets, and also just I think
based off his play style, when when you're not dealing
with someone who has a ton of ball skills, like
paying him isn't gonna be as astronomical a cost as Jabbari,
maybe even as Cam and definitely not as you know
Jalen Green, shanghun Am and those guys.
Speaker 2: Well, because I think he kind of overlaps a lot
with Jabari. Interesting, yeah, because I think they're both power forwards, uh,
And I think, like you really only need one of
those guys. And Jabbari is two years younger or two
he might even be three years younger, but he's quite
a bit younger, and so you can push back the
the payment timeline with Jabari. And I would probably say
that Tari is easier to justify trading because he is
two years older, right, and like he is, he is
better than Jabari and he's he has more market value,
I would say in Jabari right now, Oh okay, yeah,
I mean because the better he's a better player. And
while he is two years older than Jabari. I don't
know if gms necessarily know that or not, not that
they don't know that, but like, like they don't think
of it that way, right, because they were drafted in
the same class.
Speaker 1: I guess when you look at it through the lens
of if there are good teams that would be willing
to put up Gotti offers, Tari makes more sense in
terms of having the immediate impact. I think just because
Jabari Smith there's so many different layers to his offensive
game that he's more still developing. That's an interesting thought though,
because I think in a vacuum, I probably give up
more to have Jabbari on my team than to have
Tari said on my team.
Speaker 2: Yeah I would, I would agree with you, which is
why I ranked Jabbari higher, right, And like, I also
just think that, like I what I categorized the third
tier was like unrealized star potential, right, which is Jalen
and Tari. I don't know if Tari's going to be
a star. I don't know if Jalen's going to be
a star, right, and like, those are the guys that
are easier to trade, and those are the guys who
you know when you're making these decisions and when you're
planning out, Like I look at this a lot through
Sam Presty's lens, right, because Presty just this summer. I mean,
put aside everything you think about Josh Giddy as a person.
He just traded away like a real chip there, right,
Giddy could be could end up becoming a star in
his own right in Chicago. I know people people are
down on Gidda right now. I still I still think
he's pretty good. I still think he's gonna be a
pretty good player in the NBA. I still think he
has star potential. I'm not saying he's gonna be he's
going to reach that starpenness. So I still think if
you're saying he doesn't have it, we can't talk. Is
where I'm at with Giddy.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: If you're saying, I guess we can talk after one year,
you're gonna dismiss it, like because this isn't.
Speaker 1: To be fair, that's it's been three years of just
the same. What's that?
Speaker 2: Where were you on Giddy before this past season.
Speaker 1: Uh, look, I flip flopped on Giddy. I think the
problem is last year feels more more telltale than anything
because players around him got better and the fact that
he was unable to fit into what should have been
an easier role for him, Like this is someone who
needs the ball. It's very clear, and like he knocked
down threes last year, but there's a difference between his
three point percentage in actual fource bases. Defenses don't give
a fuck. We saw it in the playoffs and he
was played off four in the playoffs. There's no solve
for that. And if if the if the solve has
put the ball in his hands and build the entire
team around him. I think it puts a cap on
your ceiling. So no what I if.
Speaker 2: You told me put a cap on your ceiling, does
it put a cap on your floor? Because on your ceiling.
I don't think it impacts it by much because if
he needs the ball in his hands like that, that's basically.
Speaker 1: If he needs the ball in his hands, you need
him to also then be your best score in high
leverage moments otherwise, because there's no value in displacing him
from the ball.
Speaker 2: Right, but like what, so what is hell? Is he twenty?
Speaker 1: I think he's twenty one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's okay, twenty twenty one? Like have we seen
anything to say that he can't eventually become that? Like?
Is he that much? Is he that different than?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't want to get off topic. I don't
know to use it.
Speaker 1: Larry Marketing was in like year seven or eight when
he blew up into an All Star. So no, I
won't rule it out, but I don't want to.
Speaker 2: I don't want to get off topic and make this
a giddy discussion like I'm talking about like the way
pressed he made that decision, right, Like he traded away
someone that I view and I suspect the Thunder still
view with like at least a little bit of star
part right, And I think Tari and Jalen both even
if you're down on both those guys, they still have
a little bit of star potential, right I it is
it crazy at all to think of Houston twelve months
from now making a trade like that?
Speaker 1: Oh No, I don't. To be clear, I don't think
it's I've received pushback from Rocket fans because I've when
I look at their roster. I've actually looked at Tari
Easton and said that might be someone teams could go
out and get. And there's been a bunch of Rockets fans.
I'd say he's more important to the future than Cam
Whitmore is I think. I think, I think anything is
debatable at this point because of how many young players
we're dealing with. I really think the only clear tier
to me is just like Shangun and Amen. And maybe
you don't want those two together long term, but like
those are the those might be the directional poll stars.
Although I tend to be higher on Reed Shepherd, I
view him as someone who belongs in that tier as well.
Speaker 2: I didn't have him on this list in June. Yeah,
I didn't know he was gonna be on the team.
And like also I still don't know enough to put
him on this to rank him right, I'm gonna do
this this list again next tune uh and and I
just have to see, like how he does one year
into the NBA, especially what he does in the you know,
with volume, I think that's gonna be important. But like
I I think I can't like it's it's not I
don't want to say it's it's a bad thing to
be in tier three. Again. I still think these guys.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't. I don't have a problem with your
actual rankings or what you're saying, But he just feels
more like I guess I don't view him as a
potential star, and I don't mean that in this, you know,
pejorative way. I just view him as like he tops
out as a superstar role player, and that player fits anywhere.
And I don't know if that player ever commands the
amount of money some of these other guys that we've
discussed will, and.
Speaker 2: See him becoming like Jeremy Grant. What's that you can't
see him becoming like Jeremy Grant?
Speaker 1: No? I mean, do you see the level of on
ball creation from him that Jeremy Grant has showed in
Detroit and Portland. I don't know that I've seen early
in his.
Speaker 2: Career, right, we didn't see that with Jeremy, right like that.
That's the thing, Like Jeremy kind of surprised a lot
of us when he signed that contract with Detroit. It's like,
what the hell is like?
Speaker 1: Like what that first contract? Though? Like he was still
it took him a while to become super expensive, is
my point. And so like Tari Easton, if he's following
the Jeremy Grant like sort of arc, you can get
another contract out of him where he's nowhere near the max.
And so that was the only thing I was disagreeing
with was that I don't view him as just but
he could be expendable because of the makeup of your roster.
But I just view him as like, well, he might
be worth keeping around anyway because he's not gonna cost
you both like Jail and Green because of the the
value that it just seems like it's assigned to scores.
I mean, maybe this will be proven wrong depending on
how this season goes. He's gonna cost more, Am and
Thompson's gonna cost more, Reed Shepherd's gonna cost more, Alpern
Shangun's gonna cost more, and Jabbari to me, should cost more.
Tarry Easton I look at as like, if you told
me when it becomes extension time or deal time for
him that he ends up signing for between eighteen and
twenty something like Dylan Brooks money, basically, that wouldn't shock me.
And that's money that you can keep around in addition
to building out the rest of your like quote unquote
top of the roster with your your stars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like I'm you don't have to trade both
these guys, right, I just think they're both in the
trade bait category.
Speaker 1: I think I think that's perfectly fair to say. Honestly,
are you sure that like Alpern Shanglun's not in the
trade bake category?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean, like, like, it's not that I
don't think the Rockets will ever trade him. It's just
that if I think if you're trading him, it's probably
more of an indication of what you're seeing from a
men Thompson.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, is that like outside the realm of
possibility that a men Thompson is such a monster this year?
Speaker 2: Not at all, Not at all. But but I guess
when I say trade bait, it's more like when I
use that framing, it's more a pejorative and that's why
I don't want to use it with that's fair.
Speaker 1: So it's like, I guess I have trouble spotting. Like
if I if you ask me to rank Rockets untouchables,
I feel like I would almost have a men Thompson
and Recheper ahead of Alpera and shang Gun, and that's
probably bonkers. I don't think. I don't mean it as
an indictment on shanng Gun's game necessarily, but I look
at what those two dudes could do, and like the
fact that alper and Shangun's already coming up on like
that big money deal, and it just makes me wonder
if that's this is not an official ranking, it's just
amusing And I can already like the YouTube and Twitter
comments are going to be a disaster because I said that.
But it's a safe space I'm saying it, So it's okay.
Speaker 2: I said a lot of crazy stuff at the beginning
of this show. I mean it's fine, Like I don't think,
I don't think what you're saying is crazy. You're talking
more about payment timelines, right, and like that that makes
sense to me. But if I still kind of pair
them together because of the age h and because like yeah,
as you said, you use that framing the tent pole. Yeah,
they're both they both are directional ten poles.
Speaker 1: And so when's the last time we've seen like look,
and I want to make it clear if anyone took
Desidants with Shangun. He is a directional tempole. When's the
last time though it's seen and maybe we haven't seen
enough of it, maybe it still works where a team
has two of those guys in him and I Men Thompson,
and they don't really seem like they could fit together.
I think the closest, like.
Speaker 2: You can say, like when when when Simmons, Yeah, when
Simmons was at his peak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that. That's the I I've thought about this
a lot. That's why I was quick to mine. Other
than that, you're right, it's it's hard. I mean, I
guess you can say Westbrook and Harden in Okay, see,
but they weren't with.
Speaker 1: Such a different player in Oka. See that with the
benefit of hindsight, it's James Harden never becomes James Harden
if he stays in Okay. See. That much is very clear.
Probably because of Westbrook.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I the they're a few in name though.
It's very hard like teams of I guess NBA history
has gotten lucky in that respect, where like two non
complimentary towns don't get drafted the same team that often.
Al Right, maybe it's the case. They just like Presty
and Hinky are just kind of they come from that
ruthless aggression draft mentality. Were like they don't care about fit.
They're drafting right, and same thing with the Rockets and
take the best player available.
Speaker 1: And by the way you kind of alluded to this
with the Presty way, is like you make decisions on
these players. If you're not sure whether you want to
pay them, you trade them. You don't roll the dice
and let the market set, like that's what Presty has
done time and again. Basically it's like if he's not
paying these dudes, they're gone. And so that's why the
like with Jalen Green and less so without prints, like
that's why these seasons are interesting when they don't get extensions,
because if you're not sure if you want to pay them,
and you think that they might try and mirror the
way that the thunder of handled things, you're making all
of your decisions whatever they are before like these actual
contracts are signed and yes for the cap space purposes Alprinchangun,
the cap hold is so low, like you keep them,
you let them ride it out. We just saw the
Sixers were able to come to the mutual understanding with
Tyrese Maxi when they didn't extend him. So it was
a long as you are buying from him, there's no
risk there. But that's just like kind of another thing
to monitor is that this doesn't like I don't think
that you want to unless you know that you don't
want to let this necessarily leak into restricted free agency
without having a stance. And I think that impacts Jail
and green Way more than it does Alprin Shanghun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the right. It's tough to know, right,
I'm at the place where, like I know where what
I'm doing with Schenghun, it's just a matter of how
I'm doing it, right, That's where I'm at. I don't
know where the rockets are. And I say I don't
know where the rockets are because of their history with Shanghu, Right, that.
Speaker 1: The ashtag Brook Lopez, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's not just Lopez thing though, Right, it's
a little the little things here and there.
Speaker 1: Well, you said it the last time we talked, and
that might be the biggest it's not the words, not indictment,
but like the biggest harbinger of their view is that
you said, Alpern Schanghu didn't do a ton differently last year.
It was a matter of opportunity, not improvement for him,
and it took him so long to get the opportunity
to become what he did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I got a lot of heat for that,
by the way, because I basically said, like, hey, I
don't really think he should be this most improved player conversation,
but I'm glad that he's getting it. Like, don't get
me wrong as a fan of the team, Like, I'm
glad that he was talked about there. I don't really
think he deserves to be there, not as in like
he didn't improve, but most improved, right, Like, I don't
think that's I think that's a stretch. I think what
happened is his role got boosted and.
Speaker 1: Sometimes though MP is an analog for this, dude's role
got bigger.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean that's true, right t J McCollums,
like the classic one right coming off the bench, putting
up the same per thirty six and then starts and
then he gets the most improved right Like that that's
kind of like a classic most improved player, And MAXI
this year. Right, it was Maxi the guy who won it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean Max, we knew Maxy was this right, like
a lot of it right.
Speaker 1: Uh, this entire discussion is just a ridiculous because it's
an embarrassment of riches. But like these are all good,
but this is a good debate that we're having because
it's like there're these like six to seven guys on
this roster that just seems so promising. But I want
to get to like a more wholesale topic with this team. Sure,
especially if you don't think that Reed Shepherd is going
to play a big role. What is the path to
this team's improvement on the offensive end? They finished twentieth
in points per possession last year and you do what
you have talented offensive players? Is it just okay? Well,
Jaln Green is better for longer, or Cam Whitmore's role
is bigger for longer. You have Alperin shangundubank on him
getting better, just continue to improve it From Jabbari, my
whole thing with them is for I think about too
many things through the lens of Amn Thompson. Don't ask
me why, but it's like the floor needs to be
as open as possible. And I still think, especially if
reed Shepherd is not going to be a huge part
of the everyday rotation, that is something they could still
theoretically struggle with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's You're not wrong in worrying
about the floor spacing long term, right, Like, that's that's
why I have those guys like you have to pick one, right,
you can't have two of these non shooters on the team.
And I think, yeah, that's that's you nailed it. That's
where the improvement comes from. Player development, player development, player development,
player development. That that's that's what next. This is the
last fun year you get to have as a rocket
to the next year where the pressure comes in, right
that The next year is like where like expectations come in.
This is the year where like you can have another hey,
like the like these scrappy rockets, right, like like battling
for a play in spot, Right, this is the last
year we can do that. And then next year is
like where you gotta start making really hard decisions. And
I think it would be easier to make those hard
decisions if players make it easy on you, right, if
Jalen makes it easy on you. This these conversations. These
these questions we have about their offense get answered right,
like the floor spacing a lot of that. It's just,
let's just be frank. It's because you can't rely on
Jealing Green as a three point shooter yet, right, And
the same thing you could say that about Jabari, because
Jabari's first season has a good three point shooter was
last year, right, And so you're just gonna have to
get another year of improved offensive play from these guys.
But I have no problem, you know, gritting my teeth
through a kind of an ugly offensive season if we
get real significant data again next year.
Speaker 1: And how much do you buy into them being able
to match their defensive performance last year where it's I
think they were seventh in point slot per possession. They
probably got a little bit lucky on opponent three point shooting,
but they're really good at contesting those shots and limiting
wide open opportunities. Their perimeter ranks are filthy when it
comes to what they're able to do defensively. A lot
of that's Aman Thompson, but they also have Dylan Brooks,
a healthy Tar Eastan. If Jay Shawn Taate sweaks into
the fold, and I do feel like they're probably still
weakest on the interior, but like Alprin Schangun, I thought
one area he improved if you looked at his defensive positioning,
it was better. Think Jabari Smith Junior is getting better
as a primary rim protector, and so I think I
still am a pretty big believer. To be clear, I
did not predict they were gonna be a good defensive
team last year, so Imyodoka probably deserves a ton of
credit as well. And I don't know if they'll be
in the top seven again, but this is a team
that when I look at it and the things that's
capable of doing and then scaling forward to be like, well,
if Am and Thompson is just gonna be healthy the
entire year, I feel like I would expect them to
unless they're gonna end up leaning on Reed Shepherd a ton.
We're gonna keep circling back to him. But unless something
like that happens, I feel like I almost expect them
to be one of the ten best defenses in the
league again.
Speaker 2: This will be the third straight season well where I
will predict them to have the third like a top
ten defense in the NBA again because and that's really
an indictment of Steven Sallas. I think it's like, I
know he's gone. I know it's a little cruel to
keep barrying him even though he's gone. But he should
have been able to squeeze out a top ten defense
out of this core that last season, Houston. I'm serious
that the piece, Yes, the pieces were there. You you had,
you had, you had, you had Jay Shaun Tate, you had.
I'm sorry, I'm forgetting Oh, you had Jabari Smith, you had,
and you had like a lot of these guys that
made up their their top defense were already there.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Maybe top ten is a little harsh, but like a
top fifteen. You're telling me you couldn't scrape that out.
Like these guys were already tremendous physical talents, right, Like
physically they were ready. They just need direction, right, And
I thought, Okay, Steve mass As, this is this, this
is a guy who's supposed to come from the I'm sorry,
I'm forgetting his name in Charlotte, the head coach Steve Clifford's.
He's supposed to come from the Steve Clifford coaching tree, right,
Like these guys are supposed to be able to lead
good defenses at least have good defensive principles, and they
ever had that. They threw out the weirdest lineups possible defensively,
and they left all the blame on one dude. And
it's like, maybe you're using the dude wrong, right, maybe
you're you're you're not putting more blame on some of
these perimeter guys who are horrendous defensively, right, And I
think I think going into next year, yeah, I expect
them to be the top ten again. Like I maybe
where they land the top ten is kind of irrelevant.
What matters is they're in the top ten again. You know,
if they were a title team, yeah it's relevant, But
like they're not. Right, So, like, I think they're gonna
be a top ten defense again. They have all the
pieces to be even if Reacher plays a lot of minutes.
I think I want to see another step up from
both Shngon and Green defensively. I think those two will
really dictate. You know, a lot of a lot of
questions will get answered if if they if they steps
up defensively, like in terms of like what direction you
want to go with the core, right, It's it's not
just Jalen's offensive game, right, that's probably the biggest element
of it. The second it's also like, can he be
like a really stellar complimentary player. Yeah, if that's possible,
then like throw out everything I said about having to
trade him in February. If he's not a star, right,
if he can be a stellar complimentary talent, then you
can kind of you have more optionality. But I don't
see that, which is why I say I said what
I said at the beginning of the ship.
Speaker 1: Uh, the other thing that I would look at from album.
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but like
if they could get al Pernsching go to the point
where like if he's a legitimate picking pop threat from
beyond the arc, that might be a pathway to him
coexisting with a men if defenses ever need to like
kind of respect him popping off the screen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he might be a better shooter than
the men. And it's it's not saying a lot, right,
It's just his mid range is very, very reliable, So
don't get me wrong, But like the three point jumper
is just like the confidence is just not there.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even that enough then to like then run
inverted picking rolls with a men Johnson as the screener,
am I just like trying too hard to shoohorn these
two players together.
Speaker 2: Maybe no, maybe you can you can make like you
can make these guys work offensively. They're very very smart,
right like like even Simmons and emb they made it work, right,
It was clunky, but they made it work. And that's
like you're gonna have some of that in Houston, right
like like Sheng Gun's uber smart, a man is uber smart.
Don't don't make it work. They're gonna be fine. But
optimization is really where the problems run into like when
you're trying to get to peak rockets, right like that,
that's where the problem. So like, yeah, in these early years,
maybe you can get there. If a man develops a
jump shot, watch out right, If a man develops a
jump shot, I don't think he's gonna get there, which
is why I'm not like I'm I think you gotta
pick one. But if he develops a jump shot and
you can keep both these guys, that means you got
two tent poles man, right like that, That's that's something
you rarely seen the NBA, right, you're talking about potential
two number one guys on one team. I don't think
that's don't I don't think that's what you have right now.
But if you do have that, I mean, that's the ceiling,
right Like, that's the ceiling for the rockets long term.
Speaker 1: I guess is there a reason in particular you're already
out on Amen's jump shot. I know it doesn't look pretty, uh,
and he obviously did not shoot very well from three,
but like the release is quick enough to where like
the lack of hesitation at point to me, it's at
least quick enough to the lack of maybe the maybe
the motion starts too low, and that if teams actually
respect him, it makes him easy to be stripped or whatever.
But I came away just not as discouraged as you
from last season. You watched them more though, obviously, so
I'm deferring to you. But I'm just curious as to
what it is that makes you doubt it specific or
is it just a matter of we so rarely see
these players come in with jumpers that are as massive
works in progress and then reach a level to where
they are like if the outcome is becoming I don't
even know what's a good. Like if if he becomes
Josh Giddy as a set spot up shooter, that's not okay,
that's good, but that's not going to necessarily be a
course altering outcome because defenses will still defend him the
same way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Rondo's another one where it was like that, right,
Like Rondo became a catch and shoot, like a decent
catch and shoot guy, but the defense Hugh.
Speaker 1: Dort really gets him up there now, like defenses are
kind of like.
Speaker 2: Whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of it's that, but a
lot of it's also like just the machanic Like it's
two motions, right, like like I'm watching his hips and
it's like, Okay, he starts and then he and then
he It's it's not it's not fluid, right, it's it's
a very robotic. And I was watching drills with him
on Twitter, just like I think a couple of days ago,
and I'm not sure if this is part of the drill,
but it literally is like right, like like if people
listening to the audio, you can't tell what I'm doing.
It's like literally he's lifting himself up and in the
first motion, in the second motion he's shooting. That's not
that's not shooting, right, that's just that's like too too
much of a hitch. And I think if that's part
of the drill, you know, that's very it's very possible.
That is, by the way, like shooting, there's a lot
of different shooting drills you can do where like you
break down the motions like that, and it's just easier
to just start in that baseline and then you make
it one motion. So maybe that's that's what he was
doing in that in that drill. But like if it's
not right, And I watched him last year and I
just did I didn't like the form, right, I was
just like, ugh, this is not I watched him in
the with the ignite. I'm like, this is gonna be
a problem. This might be a problem for the rest
of his career, right, Like would you We're just have
to see the Rockets have a very very talented shooting
coach that he brought over from the Celtics, Right, So
there's the possibility that that really helps. I don't know,
it's really predicting shooting development is the hardest thing to
predict in the NBA, right, especially if you're not in
there every day.
Speaker 1: So are you ready to enter that long last the
cookie cutter portion of the podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm always I'm that's my baseline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what is when you look at this roster?
Is there anything that flies under the radar about it,
whether it's a strength or concern that you just don't
think is receiving enough attention right now?
Speaker 2: A strength or a concern? I guess the asset chest
right like, And and this is not the roster per se,
but it's the team. Like their war chest is kind
of insane, and they broes it back up again, right like.
But by pushing the timeline of these picks they got in,
they got more picks from Phoenix, right. I loved that trade.
I loved it. I loved it.
Speaker 1: I loved it.
Speaker 2: I loved it at the time. I loved it. I
still love it now. I think people were looking at
that trade as like, I don't know why WoDES was
tweeting about Kevin Durant. I think that influenced the white
people thought about that trade. And I think he was
just speculating. I really do think he was just speculating.
And well because because the next tweet he got, he backtracked,
and then on TV he backtracked again when he was
asked about it.
Speaker 1: I just I can't imagine Woje publicly speculated the Devin Booker,
by the way, is the name that caught my attention
when he was tweeting about Devin Booker. That's real that yeah,
because that's it almost felt like was Kevin Durant used
this cover to be like, oh, I'm just not gonna
mention Booker because WoDES doesn't. He used to, but he
won't do that anymore, Like he is too ingrained into
like having to maintain these relationships that I don't think
he says maybe he didn't realize, like maybe he didn't
mean to say it, but like it was pretty like
it wasn't an accidental tweet, So I this is no.
Speaker 2: I mean, like I don't want to cut you off,
but like this is what I think happened. The Rockets
sniffed around because they always sniff around, right, they sniffed
around with Kevin Durant. They sniffed around. They've had interest
in kevindur they tried to sign him in twenty seventeen,
but hard.
Speaker 1: And also not to interrupt you, but like Stone comes
from the Daryl Mory front office. School of we're just
gonna throw shit like call every team about every single
player that we want.
Speaker 2: To annoy everybody, right, Yeah, like I pissed everybody off
a call about we're gonna call you about Giannis, right
like like that that's just what they do, right, Like
they're they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna do that because
there's no it doesn't hurt you, right Like you may say, oh,
you're annoying. The guy who cares if he's annoyed, he's
if he wants to make a trade with you that
benefits his team, He's still gonna make a trade with
you that benefits his team, right, Otherwise he's Terri Button's shop, right.
But I I think he they sniffed around this summer
and then he tried connecting the dots himself. I think
that was not connecting okay, and then because immediately the
tweet that followed was like, oh they may not be.
I don't remember the tweet exactly, but it was like
pretty severe backtrack. And then he was asked about it
on Sports Center like that night, and he was he
like he dodged the question. I think he got a
text from the Rockets like, hey, that's not what we're
doing pale like like no, right, like, because it makes
no sense either, Like logically, let's just say this take
the my speculation that he was speculating aside. Right, logically,
does it make any sense that they were going after
that this trade was about Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1: No, right, maybe he's entering his age thirty six season.
That trade was not about Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2: Right, Like, I think that. I think this really was
just about the assets that they got. I mean, like
what happened was New York saw an opportunity to go
get Michel Bridges. Brooklyn's like, we're not rating McKeil bridges
while we don't have our own draft picks, and they
called Houston, and Houston was offered them this trade before,
right like, hey, at the trade they threw this trade like, hey,
we we like those phoenix picks that you have. We'll
take those off your hands if you want your picks back.
So at the time, the Nets didn't find it appetizing.
But once once they got us a deal from mckil
bridge that they really liked, they're like, okay, let's go.
We're gonna take you up on that offer. So we
can execute this trade. That's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Right, I agree. So I want to make it clear
I probably would have made the trade too if I'm Houston,
because it is to me it is a gamble, and
a gamble I would have made. But it's a gamble
in the sense that I do think that they got
to a point with the McHale bridges return. They would
have made that trade anyway with New York. And so
you can look at it as if you're Houston and
you are plotting something big, huge, massive, which I don't
know if they're plotting it, but they're clearly like they're
stockpiling shit for it if the opportunity arises. The imminency
of draft picks matters because most front offices do not
have the job security to say, if it's this trade deadline,
if it's next summer, I'm placing a ton of value
on a twenty twenty nine first round pick or beyond,
just because the job security isn't there. With that being said,
you did get so much stuff where it's like you
basically acquired the rights to three Phoenix Suns picks. When
you look at the way the swaps are going to play.
Speaker 2: Out and Stone got an extension, right, So.
Speaker 1: I'm saying the Rockets might be in a and also
they have enough talent where it's well, we're still trying
to figure things out. These Nets picks have a drive
the car off the lot, like because they're going to
convey within the next couple of years. And by the way,
they still did keep the twenty twenty seven control, so
like that's still interesting as well. But I do think
and again I would have made the trade. I want
to make it clear, but I do think people are
kind of under selling that, Oh, Brooklyn would have been
so good, Like people are gonna look at it as, oh,
to Houston, just give away the third pick or whatever
the Nets get, And maybe it's not that extreme, but
there there is a higher possibility that they the Nets
would have been, would have conveyed a top five pick
to Houston during one of those because I really do
believe that they Either one just wouldn't have been good
because there was no trade out there for them to
get immediately better to the point where they would have
just nuked the value of those picks that Houston had.
And two, I think they got to a point where
the Knicks gave them so much stuff. Had Houston just
said no, the mckal bridge's trade gets done anyway? Again,
I disagree that's that's fair. I don't think a trade.
I don't think a world in which the Nets trade
mckel bridges and the Rockets still own these picks was
ever on the table. The reason I say that is,
I mean, it's pretty clear if that happens. I mean,
if you're if you're an owner, you should look at
it objectively, right, You shouldn't do you shouldn't do what
I'm about to say, right, But it doesn't it feel
like Sean Marks is on the tail to lose his
job if you gives up if this this franchise they
just did this ten years ago, gives up another top three,
gives up two back to back Top five picks to
an organization when they're in the tank, like again, if
they if they do that again, doesn't that feel like
something that could that could do Sean Marx's job?
Speaker 2: Right? Like, I don't think it should. I don't think
it should, to be clear, because you're right, that is
a lot of value. You should look at it as
a sunk cost.
Speaker 1: But my whole thing is is that if Sean Marx's
job really was in jeopardy, you don't have the agency
to do what he just did, which is start a
rebuild by getting those your picks back from Houston.
Speaker 2: It's easier when you get your picks back, though.
Speaker 1: It's easier to sell. But if his job was really
like he clearly has the latitude top. And I think
it's also universally understood that the organization itself made a
misstep when they accepted the whole star thing. And so
the fact that also Sean mars has experience rebuilding without
his own picks because he did that when he first
came to Brooklyn, I think that probably would have given
him even more agency over Oh yeah, we're splitting hairs
over whether yeah, well I don't think.
Speaker 2: I mean I see that to say, like, I mean, like, yeah,
I'll get his back on track. Like I loved that
trade right like.
Speaker 1: I did too. I thought it was a smart gamble
and it kicked the can in a way. Of one
of these picks. Let's use the twenty twenty five one
as an example that's gonna be a player next summer.
That player is inherently less valuable because it's an actual
player than this Phoenix selection in twenty twenty seven could
be anything. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and also, like, let's just let's take your frame
to be true. Let's take let's say they do accept
that next trade and trade away mikel Bridges and you're
Houston decides to turn around and Okay, we know that
you don't have Michail Bridges. Uh, we're still gonna do
this trade anyways with you after the fact that you
just traded away Mikeil Bridges, and we know that this
this net pick is gonna be extremely valuable. Let's say
they did that, right, which I don't think, Like again,
I don't think that that world was possible, but let's
just say it was. Okay, So you're giving up a
top five pick next year, probably in all likelihood because
that's how bad Brooklyn's gonna be this year. Yeah yeah,
and and the next year possibly again, right, what are
you gonna do with two more top five picks? Like,
how are you gonna optimize those guys?
Speaker 1: I mean, one of those Cooper flag you figure it
out obviously.
Speaker 2: But maybe right, but I don't know that. And it's
the top it's a thirteen percent chance that that is
Cooper flag at best, right, and also, you have no
breathing room to develop any of these talents, right, you're
kicking the can down the road, and you're getting assets
back with the.
Speaker 1: I guess my read on it was they made this
trade because of how tied it is to one team
with a very specific player in mind, or they're gaming
it so Devin Booker being the one, in which case
it would shock me if Jalen Green is on this
team past the trade deadline, not that they're gonna get
Devin Booker, but if that's like the apple of and
which is fair just because Devin Booker is in his prime,
but like Kadi's not, even though he's still really good
and he's gonna be a free agency and Bradley Beal
still good, not in his prime. Or it's just like
they wanted distant first for what you said, because one
it's harder to groom talents that are coming in, but
two those picks are more valuable if you're really playing
the long game here, not twenty twenty five, not twenty
twenty six. But like we're kind of waiting on like
Giannis becoming available in Milwaukee, And so that's why I
think it's smart, but it does I guess where I
think Woje was onto something, and I don't think it
was Kevin Durant. I one hundred percent agree with you there.
They made this trade to me where there feels like
maybe there's a list of up to four players, but
like this trade was made with no more than three
or four players in mind. That was just my read
on it, because I really do believe that the Nets
would have made the mchal bridges trade anyway, in which case,
if you're Houston, you deal with the problem of having
another top five pick when you have it, like that's
a great problem to have.
Speaker 2: I'll say this, I do agree that the Nets should
have made the mckil bridges treat anyways, right like, I
do think they should have been feeling this as a
sun costs their verbiage. I mean, what they were saying
the media seems to indicate that they were worried about
the optics of this, right like, like because they were
talking about keeping mckil bridges and looking for the star
that compliments of what the hell are you talking about them?
Speaker 1: The Donovan Mitchell extension talks feel like it pushed the
Nets over the edge because like that was kind of
the guy where it's like, well, he might just want
to go to New York and he doesn't care if
it's not the Knicks, right, what.
Speaker 2: Is that getting you? Like mckail bridges and Donovan, Like, okay,
I get like.
Speaker 1: That's also my point here is where was If that's
how you feel about Donovan Mitchell mckel bridges, how do
you feel about a team that's just built around mckel bridges.
Speaker 2: Then just yeah, I mean so it was just weird.
It was just weird with what they were saying. But
I also do think part of it may have been leverage, right,
leveraging them like like, hey, we're comfortable standing pat even
though a lot of people may call bullshit, right, like,
you know, you're really gonna you build around the half
fun half fun bow, right like, but the Knicks clear
didn't feel that way. So you know, I don't know,
I don't know. It's tough to know. It's tough to know.
Chances are will never know because we can't interview, Like,
they're not gonna be honest about this, Brooklyn is never
gonna be honest about the idea about Oh, they'll probably
say what you're saying, which is like, we would have
made this trade anyways, right, because it makes them look good.
Speaker 1: Right. I guess my overarching question to you, though, is like,
do you believe that the trade that Houston, this is
Houston's perspective, they made this move with specific players in mind,
or that they made this move to just keep themselves
flexible flash like flush more distant into the future because
they're trying to not delay making that call. But just again,
it's more about flexibility because those picks were more eminently
gonna convey, which in their case, as you outline, I
don't want to use the word problematic, but it would
have been more of a logistical issue.
Speaker 2: I would say more sold the ladder. But the okay,
Devin Booker, is an ancillary benefit like the Rocket's new right,
like like like they're not naive, right, They're they're not
a dumb organization, They're not they they it was a
side benefit for them, It's okay, like that we also
have this over them, right, and now now we hold
this over another franchise, well, and you just.
Speaker 1: Saw how much franchise will give up to get back
its own pigs. With Brooklyn, I will say to Transition
back into like other stuff I do hate and I
love transactions. People who say that transactions are stupid, I
think that they're lame. I think everyone can root for
the game how they want to, But it does kind
of I don't necessarily like viewing the Rockets through that
lens where they're just so fucking talented as currently constructed.
But it's also a reality of what we've circled back
to nine times over on this podcast is just you
have so many guys that you know you're not gonna pay,
and it's not even a matter of paying them, by
the way, it's you've used this word a few times.
How do you optimize all of these guys together? And
the answer is you probably can't.
Speaker 2: Right, And in this trade, like you know, I know
we want to focus on like enjoying the Rockets, but
this trade in a lot of ways allows us to
enjoy the Rockets, right, because you're not getting more players
coming in to the draft.
Speaker 1: Right, That's a really good point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I I think I think this kind
of gives like the I use this word a lot
in my ride up for this right breathing room, this phrase,
right breathing room, That's what this trade was about breathing room.
Let this roster breathe. I think that's why they didn't
do anything this summer. They want this roster to breathe
and that data that whatever comes from this, right that
will inform what they do next with the with the
Phoenix picks, with the players they have on roster. But
I I think if you're if you're gonna ask me
to take it back to your question. The underdiscussed topic
with this Rockets team is the bounty of assets that
they have when you count, when you talk combine the
players with the picks. I put them up against anybody
aside from Oklahoma City. I think Oklahoma City probably has
them beat right, but oh yeah, I mean other than that,
even Utah, I think they have a case because Utah
might have more picks.
Speaker 1: But those teams are good, and they're like Cleveland's built
to sustain even Minnesota and so young. And by the way,
what you mentioned though, is interesting. With the young players,
it does get to a point where, like and that's
why I would almost bet on the like kind of
a major move coming within like the next season and
a half, those guys become inherently less valuable as they
get closer to their next contracts and like now we're
entering the phase of Okay, it's Alpern, Shangun and Jahn Green. Now,
next year's Tar Easton and Jabari Smith Junior and then
Aman Thompson and Cam wittmore right after him, and so
like this stuff is going to happen like it's happening now,
Like the you're rendering like really important wholesale directional verdicts
like beginning right now because of just the stage of
the careers that these players are entering.
Speaker 2: If the Rockets didn't get if they if they kept
the Brooklyn pick and they didn't get I'm sorry, who's
what's his name? I'm forgetting Cooper Flag if they didn't.
If they kept the pick and they didn't get Flag,
I'd feel kind of gross, Like you know when you
had like a heavy meal, right and like someone brings
like a plate of cheese kick over. It's like I can't,
I can't, Like it's just too.
Speaker 1: I'll never say no to cheesecake, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Too much, right, Like I I'm stuffed. I don't know
what to do with this food.
Speaker 1: And to your point, if people I will never frame
it that way entirely, where if the Nets end up
getting Cooper Flag because they get the number one pick,
that outcome was made far more likely because they own
their own pick. I want to make that absolutely clear.
I don't view it as the Rockets punted on an
opportunity to get Cooper Flag. I honestly, this is how
I view it. That the Rockets gave up a top
five pick in twenty twenty five as part of that deal.
That's honestly how I'm viewing it. I think that's and
again I would have made the trade. I want to
make that clear. But to me, it's like it can't
just be framed as, oh, the Nets would have been
a thirty something win team if the Rockets weren't want
to make this deal, I just I don't buy it.
Even if they had mckail bridges, there's a chance that
they just suck, Like there are a lot better teams.
Like if mckel bridges they weren't good last year, what
was the pathway as currently constructed to them getting better
this year? They didn't really have one. So that's all
I'm saying on that.
Speaker 2: And I guess what I'm saying is Sean Marx is
never gonna tell us. There's no point arguing it anymore, right,
Like he's.
Speaker 1: Never gonna tell feel like we're not even really arguing.
We're not.
Speaker 2: We kind of are because we're like we're talking about
like whether or not this trade would have happened, right
had had their picks getting back, And like, really, we're
not gonna know, right because because.
Speaker 1: Maybe when Marx gets fired, they'll be like a tell
all or something.
Speaker 2: Perhaps, right, and like, really like, we don't know what
that ownership is thinking. And even if we knew what
that ownership was thinking, who knows if that changes on
a dime when they see the pure volume of draft
capital coming in right, like, and they like owners I know,
they pretend like they don't read Twitter. They re Twitter
if they see all the craft that we say about,
like they got all this from mckail bridges, Like everything
we were saying that night, I'm telling you that stuff
influences his ownership. So maybe it's maybe even if like
his in his head, he's like, you're really gonna have
us at the bottom of the of and we're gonna work.
We're gonna give up another top pive pick again after
you read all that stuff. It's okay. Maybe that gives
you more reassurance in the plan, right, I don't know.
I don't know, We're never gonna know.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this an encore question at full strength,
what does the top ten rotation look like for this team?
Speaker 2: Shengon with Moore, Thompson, Van Vleet, Green, Tait.
Speaker 1: Guaranteed you think wow.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't see him on the outskirts to
the row of the main rotation because why do you
have him right like he's on this last year and
you want to maximize his value and you can't play
him in the G League, right, So I'd say Tate's
in there, I say, did I say Jabari?
Speaker 1: So it might be better to do it this way.
So I have as their starters are gonna be Van Vliet,
Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks, Jabbari and Shang Gun. Yeah, and
then I have Aman Thompson, Tarry Eason, cam Whitmore and
Steven Adams as my locks, so that would be nine.
I had read Shepherd as a lock too, That's why
I rounded up my ten. But clearly we're not on
the same page there, and I have to default to
you because you know this team is so much better
than I do.
Speaker 2: I'd say Tate. I would say Tate's a lock too,
So Tate.
Speaker 1: Over Shepherd or Tate over Adams at that point Shepherd Adams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're gonna have to play him, and
they really seem seem to help bent On getting a
backup center. So yeah, he's a lock too. I did that.
That's a good ten for a lock. But yeah, I mean,
and and then I'd say they're probably gonna play more
like twelve guys, right, So I'd say the other two, Well,
who you're getting is, uh, who do we leave out?
Speaker 1: Well? You left out Shephard, right, he's out. There's Josh
Landell's there.
Speaker 2: He's out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you also have on this team. No, I think
that's Oh Jeff Green is still on this team. He
might get Griffin. By the way, Aaron Holiday.
Speaker 2: Phone around so many fucking guys, man, AJ Griffin's not
playing Aaron had I still like him though, But yeah,
Aaron Hardy might play. I mean it could be some
of this could be Night to Night too. Let's just
be honest.
Speaker 1: I was just again, I was forcing you to choose
the top ten. So yeah, I think Sheppard is going
to be a bust, And that's fine, I agree.
Speaker 2: And what's unfortunate is, like I think he's very, very talented.
I just don't see a pathway to playing time his
first year. And like if that's if that doesn't happen,
it doesn't bother me because like I mean, let's just
say high end outcome. Like, wasn't Steve Nash coming off
the bench his first year in Brooklyn and New Jersey?
Excuse me? Was in New Jersey? No you could?
Speaker 1: You got drafted for the Dallas his first year?
Speaker 2: He got Yes, you're right man, he bounced around, Okay, yeah,
yeah he was in Dallas, right, wasn't wasn't he coming
off the bench.
Speaker 1: If I'm not, Uh, I'm too look I'm old. I'm
not that old, uh to know?
Speaker 2: Whatever the case? Yeah, whatever the case.
Speaker 1: He was Again, he was in Phoenix. I missed that.
His first two years were in Phoenix and it's Dallas.
Back to Phoenix. He he came off the bench his
first two seasons, correct, Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like so like high end, high end outcome, right,
Like like I don't I'm not saying that's just hyena out,
but like it's just a player that comes to mind
when I take a read, like you can still reach
it if you're if you're if you don't have a
big role your first couple of years in the NBA.
Speaker 1: It would not stop me. If it gets to the
point whereough where like denying him minutes becomes impossible. I'm
just I'm super high and Reachepherd, I think it depends
on how well you think he's gonna immediately translate this.
Speaker 2: And but by the way, I'm gonna be completely upfront
about this because I criticize other people for doing it.
I thought of Steve Nash because I was thinking of
a white guy, right Like, I'm gonna be completely upfront.
I just want to be upfront because I make fun
of people from making the comparisons. I the first player
to come to mind with Steve Nash for me, because
Rea Shepherd is white. I'm just that's the only reason
I named it. I'm gonna be up front. I believe
in honesty here.
Speaker 1: That's why whenever people ask me for my modest buzzellis
comp I put my pinky up and say Pascal Siakam
because that's the first name I came to me for him.
Speaker 2: But can I beat you there, Yeah, go ahead, Chandler
Parsons's Pinky's U comparison.
Speaker 1: Uh, this question is actually I find it not a
brain dead exercise, but like some team that's not as interesting.
For this team, it's kind of interesting what becomes their
most used crunch time lineup. I know it's matchup dependent.
I'm forcing you to say, what's gonna become there? Is
it just their starting five? Or is it is there
the potential to tinker to get Amen Thompson in there? Specifically?
Is the name that I'm thinking of?
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you swap off Dylan Brooks for Amen, that
could be it. I just tend to believe it is
the starting starting five. Maybe just fair, I mean, or
this is mean? I mean if it's if you're not
gonna swap out Brooks, maybe you swap out jam and
you put in.
Speaker 1: That's not mean if he's not having like the year
that you need him to.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, like, I like, maybe you put in
with Moore because he's having a better game or something,
right like like or you you can't really go small
because you need Shangun to be in the game. I
think he's just he needs to be in the closing five,
so that eliminates the jabbari at five lineups. But maybe
you put in maybe you swap out Brooks for like Tari,
Maybe you swap out Smith for like Tari, right, like
like there's there are ways you can go. I mean,
this team is so deep, right and like it's so
so deep. The reason they're not a contender is really
their top end talent isn't contender worthy. But if you
swapped out their top end talent, like swap out Fred
van Vliet for like shag Yogis and you swap out
like I don't know, like let's just say Shane Goon
say he's not ready yet for like Jokic, like like
that you swap that's okay. That this team is like
pick the rest of the roster as is his contender rights.
Speaker 1: The better way to frame it is they have four
I would say, fourteen guys where they would be in
any teams like rotation like twelve man, like you take four,
they would you would be in any rotation, which is
that's wild depth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have championship death, but they don't have championship
top into calber players.
Speaker 1: Uh, what what's a funky lineup you would like to
see them try this year.
Speaker 2: A funky lineup. Uh, let's go all guards. Uh, let's
go uh Van Vliet, let's go Green, Let's go Thompson,
let's go, let's throw out but Jabari. Uh. Let's let's
put in maybe maybe even read like hell, want to
play all guards?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, slide Thompson down to the four. Let's let's play.
Uh shango, I'm men next to each other. I mean,
I guess that's that's that's that's pretty.
Speaker 1: Funky, right, Yeah. I think I would like it to
be Amen Thompson, Reed, Shepherd, Tarry Eason, Cam Whitmore. And
then I'm debating of how unhinged I want to be.
I won't be two one hinged. I'll say Jabari Smith
because then that gives me like some semblance of realism.
But if I wanted to be like unhinged, I would
say just like throw Jalen Green out there and say,
like just make Amend play the five.
Speaker 2: Well limits this team a little bit with the lineups
as the shooting right, like like like if you could
if you just had one non shooter, you can get
really fun with this. That's why it's tough for me
to answer this question. To be honest, like, because you
have two non shooters that you have to account for,
it's tough for me to get crazy with it like
i'd like to. But you have to think about that
as you form out lineups.
Speaker 1: So as we record this on August to twenty third,
their win total over under is set at forty three
point five. Are you taking the over the under? And
how many teams are you prepared to guarantee or are
you confident that they will be better than in the
West this year?
Speaker 2: That's a that's a that's a really good over under man,
I mean like that, that's.
Speaker 1: Like, that's just like these people, they are the reason
that Vegas might be good at this. I feel like
I say that about every team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like that that that they I think
they nailed that. But I will slightly take the over.
I probably would say like forty five is where I land,
uh for for for win total. What was your second question?
Speaker 1: How many teams do you like? Which teams do you
look at in the West and say, Okay, Houston will
be better than them.
Speaker 2: For sure, Houston. I kind of have to think about
it the other way. Who's gonna be better than them?
For sure, so oh, okay, see better than for sure Denver,
better than for sure Utah. I think, I think I
think Houston has a chance to be better than them.
I think, old, let me look at this, the San Antonio.
For sure, they're gonna better than San Antonio. I feel
pretty confidencaing they're gonna Santonio.
Speaker 1: I think that San Antonio, Portland, and Utah I think
might be the only teams I'm prepared to guarantee, like
I struggle with the Lakers and the Warriors of it All,
like I could even the Kings, like I could even
the Pelicans right now, I could see them just being
mixed within that tier. And so if I had to
pick a number of teams that I would guarantee that
Houston is better than, I would go with three. I
don't know that I'm willing to go higher than that.
Speaker 2: Can I Can I say I think that I think
there are four teams that they're better than then, but
I just don't know what the four team is yet.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's fair to play the odds
and say, oh, they'll be better than at least one
of Let's say I'm just names Lakers, New Orleans Warriors,
Kings typed you I could.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say pretty much where
I was gonna I was gonna narrow it down to, like,
I think they're gonna be better than one of La or
Golden State, and it's just a matter of who's healthier.
And I you know, you're not gonna get perfect heult
from all these teams. But with the thing with Houston
is even if you don't get perfect health from Houston,
because they're so deep, they'll be fine. There's still it's
not going to impact them much unless that health is Shangun, Right,
Shangoon is the one one player where it's like if
you don't get perfect health from him, or if you
don't get perfect health from Van Vliet, that's those are
real factors. But everybody else, I'm sorry, I don't. I don't,
I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: It's crass to put it this way. If they get hurt,
you can still you can still have a really strong season.
Speaker 1: So Simon, I don't know the order in which these
will be coming out, but so far we've got ten
in the books, and you have been the longest, and
that should probably be whenever you and I get together.
We just fucking ramble. But with that being said, is
there anything any one I didn't ask about we didn't
cover that you think needs to be touched on? We
didn't mention that Emi Udoka probably deserves probably deserve more
Coach of the Year love for reigning in Dylan Brooks's
shot selection on offense. That was not something that I
foresaw coming, So shout out to that. But anything else
do you think that we need to discuss?
Speaker 2: Do you want to know who did foresee it?
Speaker 1: You did? You were you know what? You also foresaw?
You were on the Alpern goon train long before anyone.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this anymore because like because
like I I've done too many laps on this. But
the Dylan Brooks thing, I'm gonna take credit because you
look at Marcus Smart's shot selection with with with versus
with other coaches. You could see it. You could see it.
That's all I'm gonna say. I'm I just want to
say it. That's all I'm gonna say and leave it
at that, because I don't want to take victory laps
on this. On the Shangun thing, it happened, it's done,
it's over. Let's move on. Let's let's all be team Shangun.
Let's all be.
Speaker 1: Even the negative feedback loop to which all of us
content creators are subject to. You should take as many
damn victory laps as you want. That's my official stance.
Speaker 2: I want us all to enjoy Shangun. I don't want to.
I don't want to make them polarizing.
Speaker 1: A yeah, he's polarizing for no reason. Though polarizing, we
know what it is.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, but but I don't want to make
I don't want to make it more polarizing.
Speaker 1: Right. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss before
I let usky datto that?
Speaker 2: No, I'm good. Should be a fun season. It's gonna
be a fun Rocket team.
Speaker 1: This team is I haven't done my League Pass rankings
podcast yet, but they're gonna be like very close to
the top because I have so many questions that I
don't have answers for with them in a good way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I just enjoy having another
non pressure Rocket. Is there anybody expecting anything like other
than like, oh, they're gonna be scrappy. Is anyone saying
like they're gonna be a playoff team like I.
Speaker 1: So my guest would be that after winning forty one
games and getting Red Shepherd and seeing what Amn Thompson
and Cam Witmore did last year, I would cut like
you you're better in touch about doesn't the Rockets fan
base probably think that this is a fish in the
top six?
Speaker 2: Does the national audience that think like I think?
Speaker 1: Look, the West is too like people have just forgotten
that Memphis at full strength exists, and so it's like
between Memphis, Minnesota, Denver is still there, Like Phoenix got
better and like they they won almost fifty games while
not having really a fun season. The Clips are fading out,
but the Mavericks are on the rise, and like the
Kings technically got better. There's just the West is such
a jumble that it wouldn't shock me if you told
me the Rockets got sixth place. But they're like I
think you need to be realistic.
Speaker 2: And to be clear, I don't blame anyone from that,
Like that's where I'm That's where I'm at too. But
what I'm saying is this is the sweet spot for fandom, right,
no expectations to like and it's still fun, still a
good team, right, you got one more year of like okay,
like no one really cares, right, and then you know
the next year it's really worth stop picked up.
Speaker 1: This is as soon as you pay that first guy
of your own. I know they paid Fred van Fleet
and Dylan Brooks, but that first guy that you paid
your own, that's when the pressure kicks in. By the way,
I also think what's gonna help keep expectations in check?
I do think that the organization is going to prioritize,
like they're not gonna try and be bad, Like they're
going to make sure that they get extensive looks at
all of these guys. Would be like aman Thompson being
more like they're going to experiment still would be my
gut feeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also like like the Rafel's getting freedom to
do his job right, Like that Phoenix trade was a
very very long term trade, like the way they built
this roster out very very long term driven. Right, They're
not They didn't trade for a star of the first
opportunities they got. I like that. Let's keep it like that.
Speaker 1: Sami, can you just tell our listeners quickly where they
can find you and all the great work that you do.
Speaker 2: Re nation hoops dot Com at Red Nation Hoops on
Twitter at Somo the NBA on Twitter. Not really doing
much nowadays, I mean right now, I'm keeping with the
theme of the summer in that it's boring and it's great,
it's blissful. Let's be boring together and.
Speaker 1: Be even Let's all be boring together. And with that salmon,
thank you so much for all your time and insight,
and as you know, I'll be pastoring you to get
in the future for another eight hour podcast.
Speaker 2: Sorry to take an hour a half hour, you say,