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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dan Favelli coming

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at you with yet another twenty twenty four to twenty

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twenty five NBA look Ahead. We are on to the

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Houston Rockets, which means it's time to speak with the homie.

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Salmon Ali covers the Houston Rockets for Red Nation Hoops

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does a fantastic job of doing so. Follow him on

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the Twitter machine at Salmon Ali MBA. That's at s

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A L M A n A l I NBA. Also

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subscribe to Red Nation Hoops the link that would be

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in the YouTube and podcast description gonna cover everything all.

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Houston Rocket's a really electric team when you look at

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the talent that they have in place in the future

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that they could have moving forward. So I'm excited to

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get to chat with him. And if this is your

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first time around these parts, consider subscribing across Apple, Spotify,

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YouTube of course, get on YouTube, like and comment on

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all our videos. Help yago, love us back if you're

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already a subscriber there, and if you're already a subscriber,

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please share these episodes, shout us out, tell people about us.

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I say this ad nauseum this time of year, but

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That's how it helps get the word out there and

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help this community continue to grow. We're putting out content

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when a lot of other podcasts are not, at least

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not as frequently as we are. And there are very

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few maybe one, two, three podcast max that are doing

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these team by team previews as in depth with local

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experts as we are. If it's three others, I'd be

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absolutely shocked. So please subscribe you haven't already, and if

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you had, make sure that we get more subscribers. Discord

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as always too. The link is in the podcast and

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YouTube description. Let's talk Houston Rockets with Salmon Ali Salman,

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How is it going? Welcome back? This is I don't

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know how many look had you've done. I have a

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notation down you've been on the podcast so many times

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independent of it, I don't actually have track. I'm pretty

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sure this is at least like your fourth or fifth

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year of being on the pod for the Look Ahead.

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So thank you for coming back. How the heck are

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you good?

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Speaker 2: All right, let's just call it my debut. How about

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that your debut?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's look it around the debut of Salmon Ali

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on the on the Ardwoodknox podcast. Right. Uh, the Houston

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Rockets though super just. I mean, like they didn't do

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much this offseason. They drafted Rechepherd, they made that trade

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where they give the Nets back control over their next

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two picks to get some long term equity mostly related

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to the Phoenix Suns. When you kind of look at that,

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what do you think it says about the position that

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they're trying to hold or formulate. Is it just kind

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of we want to see what we have, but we

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also want to be built to strike if if like

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a really big opportunity comes along, does it doesn't infer

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something else? Where are you at with that?

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. I mean before the offseason,

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I kind of thought they were gonna do nothing. Like

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I said on my podcast, was like, yeah, this is

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not gonna be much like we're they're gonna draft somebody,

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they're gonna re sign. Uh, they're gonna pick up these options,

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these team options, and that's that. They're gonna call it

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a day because there's not they're not really incentivized to

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do much. Uh, like they still don't have enough data

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on these young They need to collect as much as

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they can before they make real decisions. Uh, you know,

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obviously keep smelling around for opportunities. If something that you

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can't turn down comes up, then strike. But if something

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that you have to really think about comes up, you

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air to the cautious side because you don't want to

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trade someone away that ends up becoming a four time MVP,

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right because they're that these players are so young that

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it's really hard to determine like if someone's good, like

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how good are they? If someone's great, like how great?

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Like you know, like it's we're just we're just way

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too early in this.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of that is when you look

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at the flexibility they could have next summer in twenty

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twenty five, a lot of that is going to be

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predicated on not extending Jalen Green, Ralphern Shankun, and they

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could preserve some because they can have a shit ton

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of cap space. It's I call it choose your own

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adventure cap space because there's so many different permutations they

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could take where he is. That's like sort of the

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last piece of off season business that feels like it

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could fall for this team would be if they extended

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either of those guys. Would you be would you expect

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them to would you be surprised if they did. If

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you had to pick one is going to get an extension,

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who do you think it would be?

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Speaker 2: Neither were making good extensions. And it's it's not a

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determination on Blair quality. It's purely the way this organization

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is operated for decades, right They they keep option optionality

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open at all at all costs. Look at Daryl Morey

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in Philly and what they did with Tyrese MAXI. This

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is the same GM tree, right, Like they're gonna they're

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gonna operate the same way. They want to retain uh

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the lowest possible cap hold they can, and particular when

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you look at Alpraa and Shangoon, like that cap hold

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is just it's too juicy not to keep on your books, right,

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Like Jalen Green, if you get to bump, like yeah,

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it'll unpack your your books a little bit. But it's

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not really because he was a second overall pick.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, his holds like close to his max anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so it's it's not something that with Jalen

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it's more about the long term, right, Like it's like

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do you want to give this guy a massive Yeah?

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Do you want to give this yeah a contract period?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: All that like what kind of deal do you want

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to give Jalen shan Gun. He's gonna get a MAX

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like everyone knows it. It's just a matter of who

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gives it to him. Like and when I say who

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gives it to him? I mean like, is it gonna

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be another team in restricted free agency? Is it gonna

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be the Rockets next summer? You know? Like that's basically

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like how it happens that that's where we're at with

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Albryn Schinkun. He's proven that he's that good. It's really

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he has When is Jalen going to prove that he

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is that good?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Is he going to prove that he's that good?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 2: That's what this season is all about. Uh. Like I

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talked about, I may have been even on this show.

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I don't believe in third year leaps for players drafted

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as young as Jalen. I believe in fourth year leaves.

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I think NBA history is always told you gotta look

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at that year, that age twenty two season. People who

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talk about third year leaps, I think it's an outdated term.

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I think it's probably from the time that player guys

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went to college for two years and then then the

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third year leap was actually the age twenty two season. Really,

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when you're talking about guys going to college for one year,

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or in Jalen's case, did you league, it's that third

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it's that fourth season, that that age twenty two season.

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So I think if we're gonna see a leap, it's

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gonna happen now. So if it happens, great, he's then

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he'll get that contract. It might even happen in season right,

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because again, there's no benefit to waiting. If the capital

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we just talked about it, it's not that much of

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a difference. But if it doesn't happen, then maybe we

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talked about them waiting for the iron to get hot

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to strike. That might happen in February. You know.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point, and that would be the argument

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for because I think there would be a line of

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thought where like, if Jalen Green is willing to sign

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for a number that is substantially less than his cap hold,

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you could say, well, might make sense to just resign him.

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But if you're trying to keep yourself, it's just easier

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to move him if he doesn't sign any extension because

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of the poison pill provision. So that would be the

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argument of just like don't give even if he was, like,

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you know, if he said four for one hundred, that's

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a number that you probably at least have to think about.

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But I don't think that he would want to take

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something that low. And you mentioned a leap for him,

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What does that look like? Is it just him playing

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the way he does from like mid February on starting

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in October?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that that it's not even mid February on. Really

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it's Mark. It's Mark. I'm trying to be kind here, right, Yeah,

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So like if he if he has a March season

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right like that, then then yeah, then that that's that's

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what a leap looks like. It's really a matter of

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shooting consistency. That's the biggest thing with him. Uh his

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jump shot is just so erratic. It's very very streaky.

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He can't straight together your four good games, right Like.

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It's really like if he has like a hot shooting month,

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even in that great shooting month, it's like out of

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four games will have like three ridiculous games and one dud,

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right Like, It's it's that streaky. So can he be

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more consistent with that?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Can can he? Uh continue with the great progress. He

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may gain to the free throw line into year four? Right,

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can he build out his body more? Can can that

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handle become tighter? Right? Like that that handle is still

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too loose, right, It's it got better last year, it's

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still too loose. Right? Can you get better operating and

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pick and roll? Right? Like, that's the biggest thing. Right,

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If he's gonna be a superstar, if he's gonna be

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an all star much the superstar, he's got to be

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an amazing pick and roll operator. He's just not there yet.

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Speaker 1: Do you see the potential for him to do that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? But again, like so then then the next question

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is like, okay, so how much does that player work?

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And is that player worth building the whole franchise around?

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Because you look at the guys that you think of

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in this mode. It's like Devin Booker, it's Bradley bo

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It's Zach Lavine. Like this is the spectrum you're looking

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at it, right, Like yeah, like and so even if

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you get to the higher end of that, the highest

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end of that spectrum, Devin Booker is like what the

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tenth the best player in the NBA maybe twelfth, right

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like like like that that's that guy's great, right, Like,

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don't get me wrong, I don't mean to diminish him.

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He's not He's not gonna have to be the best

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player on a championship team, right, So, like you still

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have to weigh all that, and it may still end

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up if that's the case, it may be end up

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it may end up being worth trading him anyways, because

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then you can get more financial flexibility because you're gonna

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have to. You can't resign all six of these guys,

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or I should say seven now, right, So I think

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at this point you got to you kind of have

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to pick and choose when you when you pay your players,

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which players to pay, and if you can just like

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push one guy off to the side where you don't

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have to pay him, right, then you're down to six

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guys you have to choose between. Right, We're is that's

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that you know, in a lot of respects, Like obviously

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you want all your players to hit, but if one

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player hits it off, it almost makes your decisions much easier, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, they're in an unique situation because both him

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and Alperin Shangun are on that exact same timeline and

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like considered big money tickets, but aside from the Alpern,

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Shangoun and Jalen Green just futures. What is the You know,

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I dictate too much of how these podcasts go. So

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what's the biggest storyline that you're looking at following tracking

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as we head into this season?

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Speaker 2: So I was gonna say Jalen, but but I guess

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if I can't pick Jalen, I want to see a

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man like. I really like a man is like sneaky like.

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I have him tied with Shangun as most intriguing prospect

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on this team right like he might he may have

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the highest upside in this team alongside Shangun.

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Speaker 1: Like.

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Speaker 2: He is just so unique and so multi dimensional and like,

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obviously the weaknesses are there, but because the strengths are

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so strong, he is a great finisher. He's an uber athlete.

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He is already very strong defensive player. I could see

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him Dan. I know this is crazy. I know this

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is like a serious NBA podcast. I could see him

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challenging for All defensive second team next year. That's how

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good he is.

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Speaker 1: If he is the playing time under his belt, I

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don't think that's wild at all, just based off what

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we've seen from him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's crazy. I've never seen a rookie. I mean,

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obviously I cover the rockets, my scope is a little

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bit limited, but like, I've never seen a rookie that

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good defensively, but particularly a wing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Wemby is probably the best defensive rookie I've ever

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seen since Tim Duncan at least, and I wasn't really

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I was too young when he was a rookie, but

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as a wing. Yeah, I mean even if you look

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at some of the.

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Speaker 2: Players Simmons, right, like Ben Simmons, like that, that's like

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the last one I could think of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a good point. So, I mean i'd

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be curious. I think I don't think voters would give

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it to a sophomore who is it at Wemby, But

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I do think that he could be on the level

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of just like he will be in the conversation, because

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he's that dominant defensively and the tools that he has,

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like it's the counting stats, it'll be the advanced metrics,

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and then just like he watched the eye test and

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he is dominant on the defensive.

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Speaker 2: End, right, and so like that, that's that's who I

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want to watch, because you know what Funny enough, he's

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the exact same age as these guys as Jalen and

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shanng Goon. Like he was drafted last year. He was

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just an older rookie. That's why it sneaks up on you.

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But he's kind of in that age twenty two season too, right,

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So if you're gonna see a leap naturally, like you

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may see one from him too. So I kind of

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group all those three guys together in terms of like, hmm,

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like let's see what what what level can they take

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it to?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: What's their next logical extension? And obviously everyone's gonna be looking

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at the jump shot. I think the jump shot just okay,

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Like this sounds bad. I'm I tend to believe, like

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my gut instinct put a gun to my head, that

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just may be broken, right like that, that that just

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may be like one of the like the base that

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you're starting from such a low baseline that you just

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make you shouldn't bank developmentally on that becoming a thing.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I think what I'm more interested in seeing is can

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he become like his ceiling as a player is that

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higher than Alper and Shinguns? And if it is? Okay, now,

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I gotta make a decision, right because I don't think

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those two can coexist because of the limited jump shot.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and that's I mean, let's let's get into

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that because that's been a big topic. And we saw

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men Thompson like kind of hit his sweet spot offensively

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without Alpera and Shang Gun and because he's doing a

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lot of the off ball work, and so in theory,

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you look at you know, Alman Thompson, not if he

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doesn't have the ball as much like, okay, then why

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can't if it with Alprin Shangun? You mentioned the jumper stuff,

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And so that's where it does get super awkward because

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with Aman Thompson's development, if you need to find out

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if he's more important to you than Shangun, don't you

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need to get to a point where he has more

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on ball reps. And I know this isn't like, let

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me be clear, I know the Rockets weren't a heavy

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pick and roll team, but he's averaging under three pick

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and rolls per thirty six minutes last year. That's like

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you need to see more. And even just like the drives,

301
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those were pretty low per thirty six minutes. So how

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do you because you have Shangun and also some of

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these other guys, Like how do you go about like

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something like is are you just gonna have to make

305
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some tough calls or there are gonna be things that

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fall by the wayside? Does it really is some of

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this like Alpert and Shangun might have to adapt or

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you just get to a point where you're like really

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rigidly staggering them, Because I do think if you need

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to figure out how good a man is gonna be,

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and like if you also want him to develop, I'm

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with you on the jumper, like it'd be nice if

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he gets it. But it's almost like, well, if he

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could start hitting more of those floaters like that we

315
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saw some of those from him, with those going at

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a higher clip and he's taking them at a higher frequency,

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that's at least a different level to his offensive game.

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But he needs the reps to have that, and you're

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not I would assume you're not gonna have that in

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the core core lineups because of Alpern, Shangun and some

321
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of these other guys, And so can you get to

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that like enough of that with the secondary units?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's almost a credit to him that

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he was. He was as sufficient as he was playing

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that it wasn't even a secondary. He was playing a

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tertiary where he's playing off the ball. He was playing

327
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like andre I Guodala like yeah, or.

328
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Speaker 1: Like even Aaron Gordon esque at points, like kind of

329
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floating around the dunker spot. Right.

330
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Speaker 2: Well, it was like and he he was still effective,

331
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which is like that that's why he's so impressive, right, Like,

332
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like the role he was cast in, you didn't expect

333
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anything from him, and he was still what the hell?

334
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Like what is this?

335
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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Like, and like it's not that no one didn't think

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he was talented, it's that we we thought the jumper

338
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was gonna be such a big thing, right, it was

339
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gonna be such a like he's a guard who can't shoot, right,

340
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so you like that's really hard to adapt to in

341
00:15:57,639 --> 00:16:00,879
the NBA. But he was still effective, was to all positive.

342
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As a rookie guard who can't shoot threes, that's really impressive.

343
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So yeah, I mean, I don't know how you do it.

344
00:16:07,679 --> 00:16:09,200
I'm not I'm not gonna lie. I don't have an

345
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answer for you, because that guard, that guard rotation is

346
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really really I mean, you got Van Vliet you got Green,

347
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you got Whitmore.

348
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Speaker 1: Read Chepper, you.

349
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Speaker 2: Got Sheppard now and Shepperd's not even gonna be able

350
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to play, to be honest, Like, he's probably not gonna

351
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be able to play this first year and maybe unless

352
00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:30,759
guys get hurt. I see him being a G league

353
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guy and that's not a big that's not really a

354
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big deal. Like More was the league guy until guys

355
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,559
got hurt. Right, But that's just the state of play

356
00:16:39,559 --> 00:16:41,200
when you look at like, like, how how do you

357
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,759
can You're gonna have a fifteen man rotation? You can't

358
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do that right right?

359
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Speaker 1: That is so I mean I would say with amend

360
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specifically to devotes on him, like to wrap it up.

361
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I wonder if they can, just I feel like not

362
00:16:55,879 --> 00:16:58,000
if they can, they can. I think the best way

363
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,080
he might be okay, like the jabbar minutes without shanguon

364
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,039
where he's your five, and like that's when a men

365
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,559
needs to be playing most and you get him the

366
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on ball reps because you don't have to deal with

367
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:09,319
not occupying the same space. But some of the floor

368
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:12,119
spacing issues. You could surround those two with shooters. I mean,

369
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,680
can't wait more qualify. That would Honestly, I was gonna float,

370
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,880
like make sure Reed Shepherd's in those lineups because of

371
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,279
his threat level off the ball, But you're talking about

372
00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:21,599
whether he would struggle to get minutes and that, By

373
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,799
the way, I'm so high on Reed Shepherd, so like

374
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,400
you just have any early impressions of his game. I

375
00:17:27,519 --> 00:17:29,000
was going to ask you about his role, but it

376
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,079
seems like you don't think he's gonna play much.

377
00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 2: It's it's not it has nothing to do with this talent, No,

378
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:34,119
I know that.

379
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 1: It's just it's wild to think that the number three

380
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,319
pick without injury. And also when I do think he

381
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,640
brings like an element of what this offense needs wouldn't

382
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,640
be penciled in for like guaranteed minutes. But then you

383
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,200
start to look at their depth chart. We've said it

384
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,960
on this podcast a zillion times, the Rockets almost have

385
00:17:50,519 --> 00:17:52,759
too many guys. It's like a good problem to have,

386
00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:55,000
but it's like you run into a minute crunch there.

387
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,240
Speaker 2: Let's count him out. You have the seven, right, you have,

388
00:17:58,319 --> 00:18:01,000
you have the seven draftees. Then you got the guys

389
00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:06,720
that they signed Brooks, Green, van Vliet, that's ten, right,

390
00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:11,400
and then you got I didn't even count Jock Landeal

391
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:12,839
and Steven Adams.

392
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, Steven Adams, Jashn Tate.

393
00:18:14,839 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 2: Jayshn Tate. That's that's four guys. It's fourteen guys. Like

394
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,640
I wasn't kidding when I said, you can't play fifteen guys, right,

395
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,680
Like you have you have to figure out a way

396
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:26,799
to at least get it down to twelve, right, which

397
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,400
means you're gonna have to cut two guys, which and

398
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,799
I just tend to believe Reid being the rookie in

399
00:18:32,839 --> 00:18:35,000
that crowded guard rotation is one of the obvious ones.

400
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:37,359
The other one is probably Jock Landale, right, Like I

401
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,000
just think Jock Mando's gonna be a d NPCD most nights. Yeah,

402
00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:43,440
and and and like that's how you get That's how

403
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:44,519
you get to twelve.

404
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 1: Is there? Like if Jalen struggles out of the gate though,

405
00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:52,160
and like you're looking for the the element of because

406
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,319
the thing that impressed me most about Reed Shepherd was

407
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,160
like his ability to just get by guys and into

408
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,359
his pull up from mid range. And that's just like

409
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,359
if Jalen is having another couple of month where he

410
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,599
doesn't look so good as that I know you mentioned injuries.

411
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,079
But is that in any way like a pathway to

412
00:19:05,079 --> 00:19:08,839
read Shepherd becoming more of an integold krag earlier.

413
00:19:09,319 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 2: That's a path to jail in getting traded, right, Like

414
00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:14,319
if he has a bad couple of months to start

415
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,200
the season, like he can't have Like, let's let's be

416
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,079
clear on how crucial this season this is for Jalen.

417
00:19:20,279 --> 00:19:24,400
If if that happens what you're describing, he's gone. Because

418
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,920
we're talking October November, we're getting close to the trade deadline.

419
00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:32,519
And if he has one one great month, is that

420
00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:34,759
convincing enough to keep him?

421
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:35,559
Speaker 1: No?

422
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 2: Right, like that like that's how crucial that is for Jalen. So, yeah,

423
00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:42,119
if he has a bad couple of months he make

424
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,720
the spot may may open up for him at the

425
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:45,480
trade deadline.

426
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,839
Speaker 1: I will say putting Shepherd in the G League is

427
00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:50,960
intriguing from the sense, like you know he will get

428
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,599
on ball reps there. Yeah, and so like if you're

429
00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:55,599
trying to figure out if he can run your entire offense,

430
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,160
that's great information. But I also wonder if it's not

431
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,519
that it's a disservice, but like is he oh organically

432
00:20:01,599 --> 00:20:03,839
lethal away from the ball that you don't need Like

433
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,799
I'm sure they could try and focus on doing that

434
00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:07,440
in the G League, But like it's reed Shephard, you

435
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,359
don't want it really off the ball in the G League.

436
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,079
I wonder I don't. I don't think that's a disservice.

437
00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:13,200
I just wonder if it could delay it at all,

438
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,960
like his onset impact. But again it comes back to

439
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,519
the not to belabor the same point, but they just

440
00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:20,400
have so much like you have to play this talent,

441
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,200
like it's you have to play talent that's on this

442
00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:24,279
roster that I can see where it gets tough. And

443
00:20:24,519 --> 00:20:27,839
also you're a team that like has semi immediate aspirations

444
00:20:27,839 --> 00:20:29,559
in the sense that you were pretty good last year,

445
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,440
and so it makes sense that the rookie would kind

446
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,039
of fall by the wayside if your goal is to

447
00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:36,160
be a playoff team, and then you could adjust your

448
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,000
rotation not only based off trades, but again based off

449
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,880
your record. If it's like January or Februe, you're not

450
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,799
as good as you expected, maybe you make some different

451
00:20:43,799 --> 00:20:45,200
type of rotation decisions there.

452
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went on some show last year. I can't

453
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,079
I'm sorry, I'm really bad with names like so, I

454
00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:53,000
think it was a Rockets. It was a Houston show,

455
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:57,119
Houston Sports show last year, and I remember saying that

456
00:20:57,279 --> 00:20:59,160
Cam's not gonna play him in the G League all year,

457
00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:02,440
and the host was kind of like what. I'm just like, yeah,

458
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,160
I mean count this out with me, guy, right, like

459
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,240
like like let's go through the names, right, and then

460
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,319
like we got to it's like, yeah, you're kind of right,

461
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,440
Like what about injuries? I'm like, yeah, but what about

462
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,519
injuries for any of anybody? Right, Like that's you're asking

463
00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:16,839
me as a baseline. Yeah, he's not gonna play, And

464
00:21:16,839 --> 00:21:19,759
that's what happened. You started the season, Cam didn't play,

465
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,720
and then guys got hurt he played, right, And like

466
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:25,680
that's kind of where like that's kind of how this works.

467
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,440
And you know, we talked a lot about how they

468
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,640
didn't do anything this summer. Right, if they were gonna

469
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,000
do something this summer, it would have been a consolidation

470
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:34,880
type trade where you gave a bunch of these guys

471
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,480
all together out for a star, right, because you don't

472
00:21:38,519 --> 00:21:40,880
want to you don't want to trade those picks, right

473
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,000
when you can just trade players and open up minutes

474
00:21:44,039 --> 00:21:47,279
for other guys as well as you know, consolidate the

475
00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:49,200
assets to get a stronger asset. And that's the way

476
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,920
you want to do it, right. You want to trade

477
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,559
multiple young players for your whatever star you trade for, right,

478
00:21:55,799 --> 00:21:58,319
that's the that's the way you prefer to structure the trade,

479
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,279
and that's the way you make the financials work too,

480
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,599
because I mean not Jalen Greed is not gonna make

481
00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:06,279
a trade work just by himself, right, You're gonna need

482
00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:09,400
to get a few more guys in there, so that

483
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,599
that would have been the opportunity to do it. I

484
00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:14,079
guess February is another opportunity. We're just gonna have to see.

485
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,880
These next twelve months are gonna be so fascinating. The

486
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,880
urgency is gone for them a little bit because they

487
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,119
trade away these pics in the future. Right, So maybe

488
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,680
maybe you don't have to do anything. Maybe you can

489
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,559
just kind of like let this all marinate. But I

490
00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:32,599
kind of think you have to start planning for the

491
00:22:32,599 --> 00:22:36,279
future a little bit. When you look at the core.

492
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,480
You want to narrow down, right, because you as much

493
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,799
as I would love to keep all seven of these guys,

494
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,640
it's just not Practical's not practical.

495
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: Where does Jabari Smith Junior land on that spectrum? Just

496
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,559
because I thought he improved basically everywhere last year. I

497
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:53,960
know a lot of people you focus on the three

498
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,880
point efficiency, but even the ball handling, the defense, the footwork,

499
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,359
the wire, the wire takes, he was just a lot better.

500
00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:01,920
And yet on a team that's just so crowded, and

501
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,799
if you're about to maybe build your entire team around Shangun,

502
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:06,279
we'll have to see what they do with that when

503
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,720
it comes time for his next contract. On a team

504
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:11,240
with so many players to play, so many mouths to feed,

505
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:15,039
what does like the next level look like for him

506
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,599
in in Houston? And also, I think the question I'm

507
00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:21,319
actually more intrigued by is does having Steven Adams, I

508
00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,359
know he's older coming off that injury, does is that

509
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,680
going to infringe upon any of like the Jabbari at

510
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,359
the five stuff that we got to see last year.

511
00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 2: Probably that's but yeah, it's it's not great. But I

512
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,480
gotta say this, like Jabbari and Shanghun, there's no reason

513
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,200
that can't work. We've said it a few times now, right,

514
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:44,240
like not on this specific episode, but on episodes with you.

515
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,799
They their games compliment each other so well, and yeah,

516
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,359
you would like to see you would like to get

517
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,640
more data on Jabari at the five right because it

518
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,960
is a nice spaced out unit and you can do

519
00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:57,839
a lot more on the perimeter with that spaced out units,

520
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,480
particularly with Aman Thompson right, he gets a lost space

521
00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:07,839
to operate, but that front court theoretically in a vacuum

522
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,920
should be fine. And I don't think there's a as

523
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,480
far as Jabbar's future on the team. He has a

524
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:16,480
future on the team, that is what I'll say, Like like,

525
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,759
I don't see he's not in He's not in jeopardy

526
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,000
like because he's also thinking.

527
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: In terms of his development, Like I'm curious where the

528
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,440
opportunity for like a role expansion would come for him.

529
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,759
When you look at the setup of him and Shanglun,

530
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:35,359
they compliment each other very nice. Look. Last year, Jabbar

531
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,400
Smith proved that he's like basically a universal fit, which

532
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,839
is huge. I just wonder like sort of like where

533
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:43,559
does he go from here? Not in a bad way

534
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:45,119
that I pin it on him, but it's like, what

535
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,680
does the next level on this Rockets team look like

536
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:49,960
for Jabari Smith Junior?

537
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,279
Speaker 2: More turnaround jumpers. I guess, Like I mean, I don't

538
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,319
say that pejoratively I mean, like I genuinely mean, like, yeah,

539
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,759
that's that's that's his bread and butter. Let's see more

540
00:24:59,799 --> 00:25:01,359
of it. Let's see how efficient he can get at

541
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,000
that shot, right Like, like like the LaMarcus Aldridge kind

542
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,039
of area of the of the floor, right Like, that's

543
00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:09,440
kind of like, uh, that was one of my projections

544
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,839
for him, Right Like I kind of thought like that's

545
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:12,839
a that's a nice career path for him if he

546
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,400
becomes a star, right Like, that's that's a kind of nice,

547
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,640
nice area to really explore. He and he can't he

548
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,200
can space out the floor, which LaMarcus couldn't into his

549
00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:24,880
latter years. Right Like, that's something that you could you could,

550
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,799
you could you could do more with, right I don't.

551
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,599
I don't think there's uh there There shouldn't be any

552
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,000
reason you can't give him a couple more jumpers per game.

553
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,799
He also has to get a little bit more efficient

554
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:38,839
to really demand that, right Like, he did get more

555
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:42,519
efficient last year, right, And that's a credit I agree

556
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:45,799
with you, Like he improved the most year of a

557
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,119
year at anybody in the Rockets last year. That's how

558
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,599
bad he was his rookie season.

559
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:50,039
Speaker 1: Right.

560
00:25:50,279 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: But but also like he was just on a different

561
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:58,880
level confidence wise, with the ball in his hands, operating, uh,

562
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,559
in transition, going end to end sometimes like shooting the

563
00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:05,680
three ball. Obviously he got the jumper back, he got

564
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,720
the confidence back, and like you really saw a different

565
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:11,200
level of swagger with him, which which was encouraging. I

566
00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:14,079
think you want to see, you know, where did you

567
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:17,319
shoot like thirty five percent on threes last year? Can

568
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,359
we get to like, Okay, we were talking about him

569
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,839
as one of the best shooting big prospects of all time,

570
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,039
right like that that was that's that was that was

571
00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:28,079
the conversation, right like, like I think that I think

572
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,319
Sam Bessini at one point said he was one of

573
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,839
the best shooting prospects he's ever seen, period, right Like,

574
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:35,640
which is I don't say that's I don't say that

575
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,440
as like a oh, that's a ridiculous thing to say.

576
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,960
I think that was just the conversation around him. So

577
00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:44,519
can he get to like high thirties in three point shooting?

578
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:45,079
Speaker 1: Right?

579
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,279
Speaker 2: Can he get to thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine

580
00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,119
percent from three? Like that's something I'd like to see,

581
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,720
Like just like a little simple stuff. There's there's lots

582
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,839
of ways you can improve and there's nothing The structure

583
00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:59,960
of the team I don't think should infringe on his will.

584
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: I wasn't it structured. The team almost feels like it

585
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,440
fits Cam Whitmore's development to a t. You just look

586
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,359
at kind of the shot making, the rim pressure that

587
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,640
was all divined for him last year. I don't really

588
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,680
see the end of season assist hunting was kind of fun,

589
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,960
but I don't really see that like in his game permanently.

590
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:19,440
So if you just need him as this perimeter play finisher,

591
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:22,160
this feels like a perfect spot for him. What type

592
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,880
of I'm assuming his role is just gonna continue to expand,

593
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:27,720
even like within this jumbled pecking.

594
00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: Order, right, Yeah, he's such an undeniable force, and I don't.

595
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,839
Speaker 1: You're also dealing with two bigs in your primary bigs

596
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:38,720
and Jabari spits and outprin Shango and they're not getting

597
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,319
to the rim a ton. So to have that element

598
00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:44,119
from Cam Whitmore seems absolutely massive.

599
00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a man, right, Like he's different from these

600
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,640
other rookies, right, Like these other rookies are rookies, so

601
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,799
he's something else. Right, He is the youngest player. I

602
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,519
think he might still be the youngest player from the score.

603
00:27:56,559 --> 00:27:59,000
I think might be read might be younger than him now,

604
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,319
but like he's among the youngest players of this core,

605
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,720
and he plays like among the oldest players on this

606
00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:08,799
core because of how well built he is, right and

607
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:12,519
how physical he is getting to the basket, and just

608
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:16,680
how like like in terms of like fear in terms

609
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,960
of all these other rockets are like humans, and like

610
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,039
he's he's not right like like he's just like like

611
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,960
very robotic and like, this is what I'm gonna do

612
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:30,559
if if I don't make it whatever, if I make

613
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:33,759
it cool, right, Like it does not affect his face,

614
00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:36,640
Like I watch his face all the time there are games.

615
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,839
It doesn't move, he doesn't frown, he doesn't laugh. He

616
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,960
has like a kind of like kind of like like

617
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:47,079
the same straight face. It's always even keel and like

618
00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:49,079
like whenever I whenever I see guys like that, I'm like,

619
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:51,640
all right, Like Amend's like that, Amen's actually like that.

620
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:54,920
A man, a man will have like the craziest dunk

621
00:28:55,119 --> 00:28:58,480
you've ever seen and just like run back on like

622
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,200
like no face, no face, right face. The two faceless

623
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,319
guys on the team a man in cam but Yeah,

624
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,519
just doesn't react and isn't phased by the by who's

625
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:12,039
in the game, what's going on around him, who he's defending,

626
00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:15,480
and if Lebron's guarding him. He doesn't care. Right Like

627
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,599
he had that crazy game against the Lakers. I think

628
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,920
did he have thirty I'm not I can't remember. If

629
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,200
he had a lot of he had a lot of threes.

630
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,720
He had a lot of threes, and he had a

631
00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:27,279
lot he had a lot of dunks. It was a

632
00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:31,119
fun game. I'm not worried about Cam. K K Cam's awesome,

633
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,279
k K Cam is. It's stupid that he's on this team.

634
00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:38,279
It's stupid that he's on this team. I'm gonna repeat

635
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:42,720
that again. It is very, very dumb that how many

636
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,519
nineteen teams passed on him or nineteen he got passed

637
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:49,119
up nineteen times? Rather yeah, yeah.

638
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: I also it makes me so leads into my next

639
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,200
question because he in many ways to me, feels like

640
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,480
a better fit for this roster moving forward than at

641
00:29:58,519 --> 00:30:01,359
Jailing Green because he's more a perimeter play finisher than

642
00:30:01,359 --> 00:30:03,920
someone you want to have the ball. So when you

643
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,839
look at these guys, Cam Whitmore, Jalen Green, Jabari Smith,

644
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,240
and I'm in excuse me, cam Went Moore, Jabari Smith,

645
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:14,640
and Jalen Green, Like, how do you rank those guys

646
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,079
in terms of importance to this organization? And even throw like,

647
00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:19,359
you know, maybe he's just at the bottom of like

648
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,200
Tari Easan in there, who we didn't see much of

649
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:24,640
last season, but it's just like this agent of defensive

650
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,200
chaos and like sort of the every team wants a

651
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,519
Tari Easan on their roster, Like, so how do you

652
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:32,680
sort of, you know, finagle that, because I think it

653
00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:35,119
seems very clearly that Shanggun and Thomson, even if there's

654
00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:37,720
a debate between who belongs at the top, it feels

655
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:40,519
like those two are like the top, and then Shepherd

656
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:41,680
you're just not at a point where you need to

657
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,920
figure out his place in this discussion. So it's kind

658
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,440
of these other four really.

659
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I actually did this exercise for my sub

660
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,559
stack last year actually in June, so not not that

661
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,359
long ago, and I put them in tears. So in

662
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,359
my first tier, I had potential number one guys and

663
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:00,839
I had two guys there. I had shang Gun and

664
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,680
I had I had Thompson. Right, Uh, so those are

665
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,559
the two guys that prioritize the most in the second tier.

666
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,960
I have it labeled headache free complimentary stars, Uh, Cam

667
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,400
Whitmore and Jabari Smith, like they're just there's not really

668
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,400
any any thinking involved with those two and development wise

669
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,839
and they're not going to infringe upon anybody. Uh and

670
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,440
in that last year, it's not it's not an insult

671
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,400
to them, it's not. I have Tari and I have Jalen, right,

672
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:33,240
and I think people are gonna see the Jalen thing.

673
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:35,519
It's like, oh, this guy's like like it's like, it's

674
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:37,880
not really that. I think Jalen's gonna be. I just

675
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,480
think they gave the Rockets, have drafted very very good

676
00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:44,119
and that there might be five All Stars on this team, right,

677
00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:48,039
and I think Tarry Easton's just just a hedge, like

678
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,599
just a hair better than him. But I think I

679
00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,119
could see the case for Jalen being better.

680
00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:52,519
Speaker 1: Right.

681
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,759
Speaker 2: But like that's how it would rank it. I would

682
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:59,119
I would say, you know, a men In and Shane Gooon.

683
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:03,039
I would probably picked between one of those two long term, uh,

684
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:07,000
the complimentary guys you know, Cam and Jabbari and the

685
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:09,079
one the guys you kind of have to really decide on,

686
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,480
like as in who you're gonna keep or I would

687
00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:13,960
I would probably if I were to rename that category today,

688
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:17,440
I'd say trade bait category Tari and Jalen.

689
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: Can I ask why Tari is not in the complimentary

690
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,759
tier just because I can say with someone who fits

691
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,680
any iteration of the rockets, and also just I think

692
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,680
based off his play style, when when you're not dealing

693
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,799
with someone who has a ton of ball skills, like

694
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,039
paying him isn't gonna be as astronomical a cost as Jabbari,

695
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:40,480
maybe even as Cam and definitely not as you know

696
00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:43,359
Jalen Green, shanghun Am and those guys.

697
00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:45,119
Speaker 2: Well, because I think he kind of overlaps a lot

698
00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:50,799
with Jabari. Interesting, yeah, because I think they're both power forwards, uh,

699
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,599
And I think, like you really only need one of

700
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,880
those guys. And Jabbari is two years younger or two

701
00:32:57,039 --> 00:32:59,039
he might even be three years younger, but he's quite

702
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:03,079
a bit younger, and so you can push back the

703
00:33:03,079 --> 00:33:08,920
the payment timeline with Jabari. And I would probably say

704
00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:14,599
that Tari is easier to justify trading because he is

705
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,000
two years older, right, and like he is, he is

706
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:23,039
better than Jabari and he's he has more market value,

707
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:26,680
I would say in Jabari right now, Oh okay, yeah,

708
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,759
I mean because the better he's a better player. And

709
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,359
while he is two years older than Jabari. I don't

710
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,000
know if gms necessarily know that or not, not that

711
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,079
they don't know that, but like, like they don't think

712
00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:38,759
of it that way, right, because they were drafted in

713
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:39,599
the same class.

714
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: I guess when you look at it through the lens

715
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,759
of if there are good teams that would be willing

716
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:48,599
to put up Gotti offers, Tari makes more sense in

717
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,759
terms of having the immediate impact. I think just because

718
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,279
Jabari Smith there's so many different layers to his offensive

719
00:33:56,319 --> 00:34:00,640
game that he's more still developing. That's an interesting thought though,

720
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,440
because I think in a vacuum, I probably give up

721
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,039
more to have Jabbari on my team than to have

722
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:06,440
Tari said on my team.

723
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,319
Speaker 2: Yeah I would, I would agree with you, which is

724
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:09,679
why I ranked Jabbari higher, right, And like, I also

725
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,480
just think that, like I what I categorized the third

726
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,039
tier was like unrealized star potential, right, which is Jalen

727
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:20,119
and Tari. I don't know if Tari's going to be

728
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:22,000
a star. I don't know if Jalen's going to be

729
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,760
a star, right, and like, those are the guys that

730
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,159
are easier to trade, and those are the guys who

731
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,880
you know when you're making these decisions and when you're

732
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,159
planning out, Like I look at this a lot through

733
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:41,280
Sam Presty's lens, right, because Presty just this summer. I mean,

734
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,719
put aside everything you think about Josh Giddy as a person.

735
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:47,679
He just traded away like a real chip there, right,

736
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,079
Giddy could be could end up becoming a star in

737
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:53,440
his own right in Chicago. I know people people are

738
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,639
down on Gidda right now. I still I still think

739
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:57,480
he's pretty good. I still think he's gonna be a

740
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,199
pretty good player in the NBA. I still think he

741
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,320
has star potential. I'm not saying he's gonna be he's

742
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,440
going to reach that starpenness. So I still think if

743
00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:07,199
you're saying he doesn't have it, we can't talk. Is

744
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:08,440
where I'm at with Giddy.

745
00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:08,599
Speaker 1: Right.

746
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 2: If you're saying, I guess we can talk after one year,

747
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,199
you're gonna dismiss it, like because this isn't.

748
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,079
Speaker 1: To be fair, that's it's been three years of just

749
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:20,280
the same. What's that?

750
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,679
Speaker 2: Where were you on Giddy before this past season.

751
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: Uh, look, I flip flopped on Giddy. I think the

752
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,800
problem is last year feels more more telltale than anything

753
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,880
because players around him got better and the fact that

754
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,119
he was unable to fit into what should have been

755
00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:38,039
an easier role for him, Like this is someone who

756
00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:41,159
needs the ball. It's very clear, and like he knocked

757
00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:43,760
down threes last year, but there's a difference between his

758
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,599
three point percentage in actual fource bases. Defenses don't give

759
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:48,000
a fuck. We saw it in the playoffs and he

760
00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:50,719
was played off four in the playoffs. There's no solve

761
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,639
for that. And if if the if the solve has

762
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:54,280
put the ball in his hands and build the entire

763
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,960
team around him. I think it puts a cap on

764
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,400
your ceiling. So no what I if.

765
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 2: You told me put a cap on your ceiling, does

766
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,199
it put a cap on your floor? Because on your ceiling.

767
00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:04,039
I don't think it impacts it by much because if

768
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,320
he needs the ball in his hands like that, that's basically.

769
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,559
Speaker 1: If he needs the ball in his hands, you need

770
00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:11,679
him to also then be your best score in high

771
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,079
leverage moments otherwise, because there's no value in displacing him

772
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:16,559
from the ball.

773
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: Right, but like what, so what is hell? Is he twenty?

774
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: I think he's twenty one?

775
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:27,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's okay, twenty twenty one? Like have we seen

776
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:30,320
anything to say that he can't eventually become that? Like?

777
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:33,679
Is he that much? Is he that different than?

778
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: Like?

779
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't want to get off topic. I don't

780
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:38,760
know to use it.

781
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: Larry Marketing was in like year seven or eight when

782
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,519
he blew up into an All Star. So no, I

783
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,400
won't rule it out, but I don't want to.

784
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: I don't want to get off topic and make this

785
00:36:47,039 --> 00:36:49,920
a giddy discussion like I'm talking about like the way

786
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:54,000
pressed he made that decision, right, Like he traded away

787
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:57,119
someone that I view and I suspect the Thunder still

788
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,719
view with like at least a little bit of star

789
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,280
part right, And I think Tari and Jalen both even

790
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,920
if you're down on both those guys, they still have

791
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,360
a little bit of star potential, right I it is

792
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,440
it crazy at all to think of Houston twelve months

793
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,920
from now making a trade like that?

794
00:37:18,039 --> 00:37:20,119
Speaker 1: Oh No, I don't. To be clear, I don't think

795
00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:22,880
it's I've received pushback from Rocket fans because I've when

796
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,679
I look at their roster. I've actually looked at Tari

797
00:37:24,679 --> 00:37:27,239
Easton and said that might be someone teams could go

798
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,280
out and get. And there's been a bunch of Rockets fans.

799
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,159
I'd say he's more important to the future than Cam

800
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:35,719
Whitmore is I think. I think, I think anything is

801
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,880
debatable at this point because of how many young players

802
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,039
we're dealing with. I really think the only clear tier

803
00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:44,119
to me is just like Shangun and Amen. And maybe

804
00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:45,920
you don't want those two together long term, but like

805
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,719
those are the those might be the directional poll stars.

806
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,599
Although I tend to be higher on Reed Shepherd, I

807
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:53,039
view him as someone who belongs in that tier as well.

808
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: I didn't have him on this list in June. Yeah,

809
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,000
I didn't know he was gonna be on the team.

810
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:00,639
And like also I still don't know enough to put

811
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,639
him on this to rank him right, I'm gonna do

812
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:06,039
this this list again next tune uh and and I

813
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,639
just have to see, like how he does one year

814
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:11,920
into the NBA, especially what he does in the you know,

815
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,440
with volume, I think that's gonna be important. But like

816
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,599
I I think I can't like it's it's not I

817
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:23,599
don't want to say it's it's a bad thing to

818
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:26,840
be in tier three. Again. I still think these guys.

819
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't. I don't have a problem with your

820
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,119
actual rankings or what you're saying, But he just feels

821
00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:32,719
more like I guess I don't view him as a

822
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,239
potential star, and I don't mean that in this, you know,

823
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,679
pejorative way. I just view him as like he tops

824
00:38:38,679 --> 00:38:42,360
out as a superstar role player, and that player fits anywhere.

825
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,599
And I don't know if that player ever commands the

826
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:47,039
amount of money some of these other guys that we've

827
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:48,599
discussed will, and.

828
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 2: See him becoming like Jeremy Grant. What's that you can't

829
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,079
see him becoming like Jeremy Grant?

830
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: No? I mean, do you see the level of on

831
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,960
ball creation from him that Jeremy Grant has showed in

832
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,519
Detroit and Portland. I don't know that I've seen early

833
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:01,880
in his.

834
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,119
Speaker 2: Career, right, we didn't see that with Jeremy, right like that.

835
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,440
That's the thing, Like Jeremy kind of surprised a lot

836
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,760
of us when he signed that contract with Detroit. It's like,

837
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,000
what the hell is like?

838
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: Like what that first contract? Though? Like he was still

839
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,119
it took him a while to become super expensive, is

840
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:18,760
my point. And so like Tari Easton, if he's following

841
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,480
the Jeremy Grant like sort of arc, you can get

842
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:24,639
another contract out of him where he's nowhere near the max.

843
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,559
And so that was the only thing I was disagreeing

844
00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:30,519
with was that I don't view him as just but

845
00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:33,159
he could be expendable because of the makeup of your roster.

846
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:35,320
But I just view him as like, well, he might

847
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,360
be worth keeping around anyway because he's not gonna cost

848
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,719
you both like Jail and Green because of the the

849
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,360
value that it just seems like it's assigned to scores.

850
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,880
I mean, maybe this will be proven wrong depending on

851
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,679
how this season goes. He's gonna cost more, Am and

852
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,239
Thompson's gonna cost more, Reed Shepherd's gonna cost more, Alpern

853
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,480
Shangun's gonna cost more, and Jabbari to me, should cost more.

854
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:56,599
Tarry Easton I look at as like, if you told

855
00:39:56,599 --> 00:39:58,639
me when it becomes extension time or deal time for

856
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,440
him that he ends up signing for between eighteen and

857
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,559
twenty something like Dylan Brooks money, basically, that wouldn't shock me.

858
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:07,559
And that's money that you can keep around in addition

859
00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:10,000
to building out the rest of your like quote unquote

860
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,280
top of the roster with your your stars.

861
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like I'm you don't have to trade both

862
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,159
these guys, right, I just think they're both in the

863
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:19,320
trade bait category.

864
00:40:19,639 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: I think I think that's perfectly fair to say. Honestly,

865
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,960
are you sure that like Alpern Shanglun's not in the

866
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:26,880
trade bake category?

867
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean, like, like, it's not that I

868
00:40:31,159 --> 00:40:32,920
don't think the Rockets will ever trade him. It's just

869
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,719
that if I think if you're trading him, it's probably

870
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,199
more of an indication of what you're seeing from a

871
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:36,800
men Thompson.

872
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,519
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, is that like outside the realm of

873
00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:42,400
possibility that a men Thompson is such a monster this year?

874
00:40:42,639 --> 00:40:45,159
Speaker 2: Not at all, Not at all. But but I guess

875
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,679
when I say trade bait, it's more like when I

876
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,320
use that framing, it's more a pejorative and that's why

877
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,039
I don't want to use it with that's fair.

878
00:40:54,119 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: So it's like, I guess I have trouble spotting. Like

879
00:40:56,559 --> 00:40:59,119
if I if you ask me to rank Rockets untouchables,

880
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:01,039
I feel like I would almost have a men Thompson

881
00:41:01,039 --> 00:41:03,400
and Recheper ahead of Alpera and shang Gun, and that's

882
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,360
probably bonkers. I don't think. I don't mean it as

883
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,679
an indictment on shanng Gun's game necessarily, but I look

884
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,519
at what those two dudes could do, and like the

885
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:15,480
fact that alper and Shangun's already coming up on like

886
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:18,239
that big money deal, and it just makes me wonder

887
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,400
if that's this is not an official ranking, it's just

888
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,039
amusing And I can already like the YouTube and Twitter

889
00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:24,920
comments are going to be a disaster because I said that.

890
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,960
But it's a safe space I'm saying it, So it's okay.

891
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,679
Speaker 2: I said a lot of crazy stuff at the beginning

892
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:32,079
of this show. I mean it's fine, Like I don't think,

893
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,599
I don't think what you're saying is crazy. You're talking

894
00:41:35,639 --> 00:41:38,719
more about payment timelines, right, and like that that makes

895
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:43,719
sense to me. But if I still kind of pair

896
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,599
them together because of the age h and because like yeah,

897
00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:50,480
as you said, you use that framing the tent pole. Yeah,

898
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:52,960
they're both they both are directional ten poles.

899
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: And so when's the last time we've seen like look,

900
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,559
and I want to make it clear if anyone took

901
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:01,440
Desidants with Shangun. He is a directional tempole. When's the

902
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,239
last time though it's seen and maybe we haven't seen

903
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,199
enough of it, maybe it still works where a team

904
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,719
has two of those guys in him and I Men Thompson,

905
00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:11,079
and they don't really seem like they could fit together.

906
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:12,039
I think the closest, like.

907
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: You can say, like when when when Simmons, Yeah, when

908
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:17,840
Simmons was at his peak.

909
00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point.

910
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that. That's the I I've thought about this

911
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,480
a lot. That's why I was quick to mine. Other

912
00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:28,960
than that, you're right, it's it's hard. I mean, I

913
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,760
guess you can say Westbrook and Harden in Okay, see,

914
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,440
but they weren't with.

915
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,639
Speaker 1: Such a different player in Oka. See that with the

916
00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:40,800
benefit of hindsight, it's James Harden never becomes James Harden

917
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,719
if he stays in Okay. See. That much is very clear.

918
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,119
Probably because of Westbrook.

919
00:42:44,519 --> 00:42:48,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I the they're a few in name though.

920
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,039
It's very hard like teams of I guess NBA history

921
00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:54,280
has gotten lucky in that respect, where like two non

922
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,360
complimentary towns don't get drafted the same team that often.

923
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,639
Al Right, maybe it's the case. They just like Presty

924
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,480
and Hinky are just kind of they come from that

925
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:08,639
ruthless aggression draft mentality. Were like they don't care about fit.

926
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,920
They're drafting right, and same thing with the Rockets and

927
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:14,480
take the best player available.

928
00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:16,559
Speaker 1: And by the way you kind of alluded to this

929
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,239
with the Presty way, is like you make decisions on

930
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,199
these players. If you're not sure whether you want to

931
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:24,360
pay them, you trade them. You don't roll the dice

932
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,239
and let the market set, like that's what Presty has

933
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,400
done time and again. Basically it's like if he's not

934
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,800
paying these dudes, they're gone. And so that's why the

935
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:34,760
like with Jalen Green and less so without prints, like

936
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,239
that's why these seasons are interesting when they don't get extensions,

937
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:38,920
because if you're not sure if you want to pay them,

938
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:41,239
and you think that they might try and mirror the

939
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,159
way that the thunder of handled things, you're making all

940
00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:48,599
of your decisions whatever they are before like these actual

941
00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:52,280
contracts are signed and yes for the cap space purposes Alprinchangun,

942
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,840
the cap hold is so low, like you keep them,

943
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,119
you let them ride it out. We just saw the

944
00:43:55,119 --> 00:43:57,719
Sixers were able to come to the mutual understanding with

945
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,960
Tyrese Maxi when they didn't extend him. So it was

946
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,920
a long as you are buying from him, there's no

947
00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:04,039
risk there. But that's just like kind of another thing

948
00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:07,079
to monitor is that this doesn't like I don't think

949
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:09,840
that you want to unless you know that you don't

950
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,360
want to let this necessarily leak into restricted free agency

951
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,519
without having a stance. And I think that impacts Jail

952
00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:17,440
and green Way more than it does Alprin Shanghun.

953
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the right. It's tough to know, right,

954
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,119
I'm at the place where, like I know where what

955
00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:27,719
I'm doing with Schenghun, it's just a matter of how

956
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,960
I'm doing it, right, That's where I'm at. I don't

957
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,920
know where the rockets are. And I say I don't

958
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,480
know where the rockets are because of their history with Shanghu, Right, that.

959
00:44:38,519 --> 00:44:40,639
Speaker 1: The ashtag Brook Lopez, Yeah.

960
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,679
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's not just Lopez thing though, Right, it's

961
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,320
a little the little things here and there.

962
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: Well, you said it the last time we talked, and

963
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,360
that might be the biggest it's not the words, not indictment,

964
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,880
but like the biggest harbinger of their view is that

965
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,079
you said, Alpern Schanghu didn't do a ton differently last year.

966
00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:58,000
It was a matter of opportunity, not improvement for him,

967
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:00,239
and it took him so long to get the opportunity

968
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:01,760
to become what he did.

969
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:03,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I got a lot of heat for that,

970
00:45:03,639 --> 00:45:06,760
by the way, because I basically said, like, hey, I

971
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,679
don't really think he should be this most improved player conversation,

972
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,519
but I'm glad that he's getting it. Like, don't get

973
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:13,840
me wrong as a fan of the team, Like, I'm

974
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,039
glad that he was talked about there. I don't really

975
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:19,320
think he deserves to be there, not as in like

976
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,760
he didn't improve, but most improved, right, Like, I don't

977
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,760
think that's I think that's a stretch. I think what

978
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,920
happened is his role got boosted and.

979
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,159
Speaker 1: Sometimes though MP is an analog for this, dude's role

980
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:30,719
got bigger.

981
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,519
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean that's true, right t J McCollums,

982
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:36,880
like the classic one right coming off the bench, putting

983
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,800
up the same per thirty six and then starts and

984
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,280
then he gets the most improved right Like that that's

985
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,159
kind of like a classic most improved player, And MAXI

986
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,280
this year. Right, it was Maxi the guy who won it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

987
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,840
I mean Max, we knew Maxy was this right, like

988
00:45:52,199 --> 00:45:53,159
a lot of it right.

989
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,639
Speaker 1: Uh, this entire discussion is just a ridiculous because it's

990
00:45:56,639 --> 00:45:58,519
an embarrassment of riches. But like these are all good,

991
00:45:58,519 --> 00:46:00,519
but this is a good debate that we're having because

992
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:02,639
it's like there're these like six to seven guys on

993
00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:05,239
this roster that just seems so promising. But I want

994
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,960
to get to like a more wholesale topic with this team. Sure,

995
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,800
especially if you don't think that Reed Shepherd is going

996
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,639
to play a big role. What is the path to

997
00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:17,039
this team's improvement on the offensive end? They finished twentieth

998
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:19,920
in points per possession last year and you do what

999
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,159
you have talented offensive players? Is it just okay? Well,

1000
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,760
Jaln Green is better for longer, or Cam Whitmore's role

1001
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,719
is bigger for longer. You have Alperin shangundubank on him

1002
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,079
getting better, just continue to improve it From Jabbari, my

1003
00:46:33,159 --> 00:46:36,599
whole thing with them is for I think about too

1004
00:46:36,639 --> 00:46:38,639
many things through the lens of Amn Thompson. Don't ask

1005
00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:40,519
me why, but it's like the floor needs to be

1006
00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:43,840
as open as possible. And I still think, especially if

1007
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,519
reed Shepherd is not going to be a huge part

1008
00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:48,480
of the everyday rotation, that is something they could still

1009
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:49,639
theoretically struggle with.

1010
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's You're not wrong in worrying

1011
00:46:53,079 --> 00:46:56,159
about the floor spacing long term, right, Like, that's that's

1012
00:46:56,199 --> 00:46:59,400
why I have those guys like you have to pick one, right,

1013
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:01,880
you can't have two of these non shooters on the team.

1014
00:47:02,159 --> 00:47:07,000
And I think, yeah, that's that's you nailed it. That's

1015
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,239
where the improvement comes from. Player development, player development, player development,

1016
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,559
player development. That that's that's what next. This is the

1017
00:47:12,639 --> 00:47:14,400
last fun year you get to have as a rocket

1018
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,760
to the next year where the pressure comes in, right

1019
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,519
that The next year is like where like expectations come in.

1020
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,800
This is the year where like you can have another hey,

1021
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,679
like the like these scrappy rockets, right, like like battling

1022
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,599
for a play in spot, Right, this is the last

1023
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:29,679
year we can do that. And then next year is

1024
00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:32,199
like where you gotta start making really hard decisions. And

1025
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,960
I think it would be easier to make those hard

1026
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,599
decisions if players make it easy on you, right, if

1027
00:47:40,679 --> 00:47:45,679
Jalen makes it easy on you. This these conversations. These

1028
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,079
these questions we have about their offense get answered right,

1029
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:51,320
like the floor spacing a lot of that. It's just,

1030
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,519
let's just be frank. It's because you can't rely on

1031
00:47:53,559 --> 00:47:58,519
Jealing Green as a three point shooter yet, right, And

1032
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:01,920
the same thing you could say that about Jabari, because

1033
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,239
Jabari's first season has a good three point shooter was

1034
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,440
last year, right, And so you're just gonna have to

1035
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,159
get another year of improved offensive play from these guys.

1036
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,800
But I have no problem, you know, gritting my teeth

1037
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,840
through a kind of an ugly offensive season if we

1038
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,440
get real significant data again next year.

1039
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: And how much do you buy into them being able

1040
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,000
to match their defensive performance last year where it's I

1041
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,840
think they were seventh in point slot per possession. They

1042
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,400
probably got a little bit lucky on opponent three point shooting,

1043
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,880
but they're really good at contesting those shots and limiting

1044
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,199
wide open opportunities. Their perimeter ranks are filthy when it

1045
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:42,920
comes to what they're able to do defensively. A lot

1046
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,440
of that's Aman Thompson, but they also have Dylan Brooks,

1047
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,039
a healthy Tar Eastan. If Jay Shawn Taate sweaks into

1048
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:51,000
the fold, and I do feel like they're probably still

1049
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:54,000
weakest on the interior, but like Alprin Schangun, I thought

1050
00:48:54,039 --> 00:48:56,679
one area he improved if you looked at his defensive positioning,

1051
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,159
it was better. Think Jabari Smith Junior is getting better

1052
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,400
as a primary rim protector, and so I think I

1053
00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:06,760
still am a pretty big believer. To be clear, I

1054
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,719
did not predict they were gonna be a good defensive

1055
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,119
team last year, so Imyodoka probably deserves a ton of

1056
00:49:11,119 --> 00:49:13,199
credit as well. And I don't know if they'll be

1057
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,320
in the top seven again, but this is a team

1058
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:17,840
that when I look at it and the things that's

1059
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,039
capable of doing and then scaling forward to be like, well,

1060
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:22,119
if Am and Thompson is just gonna be healthy the

1061
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,639
entire year, I feel like I would expect them to

1062
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,039
unless they're gonna end up leaning on Reed Shepherd a ton.

1063
00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:30,719
We're gonna keep circling back to him. But unless something

1064
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,719
like that happens, I feel like I almost expect them

1065
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,360
to be one of the ten best defenses in the

1066
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:34,960
league again.

1067
00:49:35,519 --> 00:49:38,679
Speaker 2: This will be the third straight season well where I

1068
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:40,519
will predict them to have the third like a top

1069
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:44,360
ten defense in the NBA again because and that's really

1070
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,599
an indictment of Steven Sallas. I think it's like, I

1071
00:49:47,639 --> 00:49:50,280
know he's gone. I know it's a little cruel to

1072
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,760
keep barrying him even though he's gone. But he should

1073
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,800
have been able to squeeze out a top ten defense

1074
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,800
out of this core that last season, Houston. I'm serious

1075
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,559
that the piece, Yes, the pieces were there. You you had,

1076
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:10,400
you had, you had, you had Jay Shaun Tate, you had.

1077
00:50:11,199 --> 00:50:14,280
I'm sorry, I'm forgetting Oh, you had Jabari Smith, you had,

1078
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:16,719
and you had like a lot of these guys that

1079
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,719
made up their their top defense were already there.

1080
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: Right.

1081
00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:23,519
Speaker 2: Maybe top ten is a little harsh, but like a

1082
00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:26,159
top fifteen. You're telling me you couldn't scrape that out.

1083
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:31,719
Like these guys were already tremendous physical talents, right, Like

1084
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,760
physically they were ready. They just need direction, right, And

1085
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,239
I thought, Okay, Steve mass As, this is this, this

1086
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:44,000
is a guy who's supposed to come from the I'm sorry,

1087
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,119
I'm forgetting his name in Charlotte, the head coach Steve Clifford's.

1088
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:52,039
He's supposed to come from the Steve Clifford coaching tree, right,

1089
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,840
Like these guys are supposed to be able to lead

1090
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,880
good defenses at least have good defensive principles, and they

1091
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:05,039
ever had that. They threw out the weirdest lineups possible defensively,

1092
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:09,760
and they left all the blame on one dude. And

1093
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,519
it's like, maybe you're using the dude wrong, right, maybe

1094
00:51:13,559 --> 00:51:16,440
you're you're you're not putting more blame on some of

1095
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,039
these perimeter guys who are horrendous defensively, right, And I

1096
00:51:21,079 --> 00:51:24,679
think I think going into next year, yeah, I expect

1097
00:51:24,679 --> 00:51:27,480
them to be the top ten again. Like I maybe

1098
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:30,239
where they land the top ten is kind of irrelevant.

1099
00:51:30,679 --> 00:51:33,960
What matters is they're in the top ten again. You know,

1100
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:36,599
if they were a title team, yeah it's relevant, But

1101
00:51:36,639 --> 00:51:39,159
like they're not. Right, So, like, I think they're gonna

1102
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:41,079
be a top ten defense again. They have all the

1103
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:43,440
pieces to be even if Reacher plays a lot of minutes.

1104
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:47,119
I think I want to see another step up from

1105
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:53,119
both Shngon and Green defensively. I think those two will

1106
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:57,119
really dictate. You know, a lot of a lot of

1107
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:00,519
questions will get answered if if they if they steps

1108
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:03,719
up defensively, like in terms of like what direction you

1109
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,880
want to go with the core, right, It's it's not

1110
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:09,159
just Jalen's offensive game, right, that's probably the biggest element

1111
00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:12,000
of it. The second it's also like, can he be

1112
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:16,440
like a really stellar complimentary player. Yeah, if that's possible,

1113
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,039
then like throw out everything I said about having to

1114
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:22,440
trade him in February. If he's not a star, right,

1115
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,199
if he can be a stellar complimentary talent, then you

1116
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:27,599
can kind of you have more optionality. But I don't

1117
00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:30,599
see that, which is why I say I said what

1118
00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:31,679
I said at the beginning of the ship.

1119
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: Uh, the other thing that I would look at from album.

1120
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,159
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but like

1121
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,199
if they could get al Pernsching go to the point

1122
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:41,920
where like if he's a legitimate picking pop threat from

1123
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,800
beyond the arc, that might be a pathway to him

1124
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,639
coexisting with a men if defenses ever need to like

1125
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,199
kind of respect him popping off the screen.

1126
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he might be a better shooter than

1127
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:57,719
the men. And it's it's not saying a lot, right,

1128
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,559
It's just his mid range is very, very reliable, So

1129
00:53:01,639 --> 00:53:04,239
don't get me wrong, But like the three point jumper

1130
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,639
is just like the confidence is just not there.

1131
00:53:06,679 --> 00:53:08,639
Speaker 1: It wasn't even that enough then to like then run

1132
00:53:08,679 --> 00:53:11,000
inverted picking rolls with a men Johnson as the screener,

1133
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,400
am I just like trying too hard to shoohorn these

1134
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:14,159
two players together.

1135
00:53:14,639 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: Maybe no, maybe you can you can make like you

1136
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,119
can make these guys work offensively. They're very very smart,

1137
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:26,440
right like like even Simmons and emb they made it work, right,

1138
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,360
It was clunky, but they made it work. And that's

1139
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,920
like you're gonna have some of that in Houston, right

1140
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:37,119
like like Sheng Gun's uber smart, a man is uber smart.

1141
00:53:37,679 --> 00:53:40,360
Don't don't make it work. They're gonna be fine. But

1142
00:53:41,039 --> 00:53:44,239
optimization is really where the problems run into like when

1143
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,840
you're trying to get to peak rockets, right like that,

1144
00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:51,039
that's where the problem. So like, yeah, in these early years,

1145
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:54,199
maybe you can get there. If a man develops a

1146
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:59,159
jump shot, watch out right, If a man develops a

1147
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,400
jump shot, I don't think he's gonna get there, which

1148
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,639
is why I'm not like I'm I think you gotta

1149
00:54:03,679 --> 00:54:05,800
pick one. But if he develops a jump shot and

1150
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,800
you can keep both these guys, that means you got

1151
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,320
two tent poles man, right like that, That's that's something

1152
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,599
you rarely seen the NBA, right, you're talking about potential

1153
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,639
two number one guys on one team. I don't think

1154
00:54:21,639 --> 00:54:23,679
that's don't I don't think that's what you have right now.

1155
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:28,880
But if you do have that, I mean, that's the ceiling,

1156
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,079
right Like, that's the ceiling for the rockets long term.

1157
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,639
Speaker 1: I guess is there a reason in particular you're already

1158
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:39,840
out on Amen's jump shot. I know it doesn't look pretty, uh,

1159
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,360
and he obviously did not shoot very well from three,

1160
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,480
but like the release is quick enough to where like

1161
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,159
the lack of hesitation at point to me, it's at

1162
00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:49,199
least quick enough to the lack of maybe the maybe

1163
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,480
the motion starts too low, and that if teams actually

1164
00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:53,400
respect him, it makes him easy to be stripped or whatever.

1165
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,840
But I came away just not as discouraged as you

1166
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,400
from last season. You watched them more though, obviously, so

1167
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,159
I'm deferring to you. But I'm just curious as to

1168
00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:04,760
what it is that makes you doubt it specific or

1169
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,079
is it just a matter of we so rarely see

1170
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:11,119
these players come in with jumpers that are as massive

1171
00:55:11,159 --> 00:55:13,719
works in progress and then reach a level to where

1172
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,559
they are like if the outcome is becoming I don't

1173
00:55:17,559 --> 00:55:19,639
even know what's a good. Like if if he becomes

1174
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,679
Josh Giddy as a set spot up shooter, that's not okay,

1175
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,000
that's good, but that's not going to necessarily be a

1176
00:55:26,039 --> 00:55:28,960
course altering outcome because defenses will still defend him the

1177
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:29,400
same way.

1178
00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:32,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Rondo's another one where it was like that, right,

1179
00:55:32,199 --> 00:55:34,960
Like Rondo became a catch and shoot, like a decent

1180
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,760
catch and shoot guy, but the defense Hugh.

1181
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,119
Speaker 1: Dort really gets him up there now, like defenses are

1182
00:55:39,199 --> 00:55:39,719
kind of like.

1183
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 2: Whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of it's that, but a

1184
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,800
lot of it's also like just the machanic Like it's

1185
00:55:49,039 --> 00:55:52,639
two motions, right, like like I'm watching his hips and

1186
00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:55,079
it's like, Okay, he starts and then he and then

1187
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:58,039
he It's it's not it's not fluid, right, it's it's

1188
00:55:58,119 --> 00:56:02,239
a very robotic. And I was watching drills with him

1189
00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:05,400
on Twitter, just like I think a couple of days ago,

1190
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,840
and I'm not sure if this is part of the drill,

1191
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:13,880
but it literally is like right, like like if people

1192
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:15,840
listening to the audio, you can't tell what I'm doing.

1193
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:19,039
It's like literally he's lifting himself up and in the

1194
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:21,880
first motion, in the second motion he's shooting. That's not

1195
00:56:22,199 --> 00:56:26,760
that's not shooting, right, that's just that's like too too

1196
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,440
much of a hitch. And I think if that's part

1197
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,719
of the drill, you know, that's very it's very possible.

1198
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,000
That is, by the way, like shooting, there's a lot

1199
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,119
of different shooting drills you can do where like you

1200
00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:39,719
break down the motions like that, and it's just easier

1201
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,599
to just start in that baseline and then you make

1202
00:56:41,639 --> 00:56:43,760
it one motion. So maybe that's that's what he was

1203
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,480
doing in that in that drill. But like if it's

1204
00:56:46,519 --> 00:56:49,119
not right, And I watched him last year and I

1205
00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:51,440
just did I didn't like the form, right, I was

1206
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,480
just like, ugh, this is not I watched him in

1207
00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:55,800
the with the ignite. I'm like, this is gonna be

1208
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,679
a problem. This might be a problem for the rest

1209
00:56:57,679 --> 00:57:00,280
of his career, right, Like would you We're just have

1210
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,519
to see the Rockets have a very very talented shooting

1211
00:57:03,559 --> 00:57:08,599
coach that he brought over from the Celtics, Right, So

1212
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:12,599
there's the possibility that that really helps. I don't know,

1213
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:17,760
it's really predicting shooting development is the hardest thing to

1214
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,199
predict in the NBA, right, especially if you're not in

1215
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:22,039
there every day.

1216
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: So are you ready to enter that long last the

1217
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:28,480
cookie cutter portion of the podcast.

1218
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,559
Speaker 2: I'm always I'm that's my baseline.

1219
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:36,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what is when you look at this roster?

1220
00:57:36,719 --> 00:57:39,719
Is there anything that flies under the radar about it,

1221
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,800
whether it's a strength or concern that you just don't

1222
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,599
think is receiving enough attention right now?

1223
00:57:44,119 --> 00:57:51,199
Speaker 2: A strength or a concern? I guess the asset chest

1224
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,679
right like, And and this is not the roster per se,

1225
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,559
but it's the team. Like their war chest is kind

1226
00:57:58,599 --> 00:58:01,880
of insane, and they broes it back up again, right like.

1227
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,280
But by pushing the timeline of these picks they got in,

1228
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:10,639
they got more picks from Phoenix, right. I loved that trade.

1229
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,239
I loved it. I loved it.

1230
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: I loved it.

1231
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,559
Speaker 2: I loved it at the time. I loved it. I

1232
00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:16,639
still love it now. I think people were looking at

1233
00:58:16,679 --> 00:58:18,920
that trade as like, I don't know why WoDES was

1234
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,440
tweeting about Kevin Durant. I think that influenced the white

1235
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,480
people thought about that trade. And I think he was

1236
00:58:23,519 --> 00:58:26,400
just speculating. I really do think he was just speculating.

1237
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:30,039
And well because because the next tweet he got, he backtracked,

1238
00:58:30,239 --> 00:58:32,480
and then on TV he backtracked again when he was

1239
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:33,119
asked about it.

1240
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: I just I can't imagine Woje publicly speculated the Devin Booker,

1241
00:58:37,039 --> 00:58:38,639
by the way, is the name that caught my attention

1242
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:42,280
when he was tweeting about Devin Booker. That's real that yeah,

1243
00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:45,039
because that's it almost felt like was Kevin Durant used

1244
00:58:45,079 --> 00:58:46,599
this cover to be like, oh, I'm just not gonna

1245
00:58:46,599 --> 00:58:49,639
mention Booker because WoDES doesn't. He used to, but he

1246
00:58:49,679 --> 00:58:52,440
won't do that anymore, Like he is too ingrained into

1247
00:58:52,519 --> 00:58:55,159
like having to maintain these relationships that I don't think

1248
00:58:55,199 --> 00:58:57,960
he says maybe he didn't realize, like maybe he didn't

1249
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,360
mean to say it, but like it was pretty like

1250
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:03,800
it wasn't an accidental tweet, So I this is no.

1251
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,719
Speaker 2: I mean, like I don't want to cut you off,

1252
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,440
but like this is what I think happened. The Rockets

1253
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,599
sniffed around because they always sniff around, right, they sniffed

1254
00:59:12,599 --> 00:59:15,000
around with Kevin Durant. They sniffed around. They've had interest

1255
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:17,000
in kevindur they tried to sign him in twenty seventeen,

1256
00:59:17,119 --> 00:59:17,599
but hard.

1257
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: And also not to interrupt you, but like Stone comes

1258
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,880
from the Daryl Mory front office. School of we're just

1259
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,480
gonna throw shit like call every team about every single

1260
00:59:25,519 --> 00:59:26,280
player that we want.

1261
00:59:26,119 --> 00:59:28,599
Speaker 2: To annoy everybody, right, Yeah, like I pissed everybody off

1262
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,119
a call about we're gonna call you about Giannis, right

1263
00:59:32,159 --> 00:59:34,280
like like that that's just what they do, right, Like

1264
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,000
they're they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna do that because

1265
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:40,280
there's no it doesn't hurt you, right Like you may say, oh,

1266
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,599
you're annoying. The guy who cares if he's annoyed, he's

1267
00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:44,000
if he wants to make a trade with you that

1268
00:59:44,039 --> 00:59:45,840
benefits his team, He's still gonna make a trade with

1269
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,440
you that benefits his team, right, Otherwise he's Terri Button's shop, right.

1270
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,880
But I I think he they sniffed around this summer

1271
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,360
and then he tried connecting the dots himself. I think

1272
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:01,000
that was not connecting okay, and then because immediately the

1273
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:06,400
tweet that followed was like, oh they may not be.

1274
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,880
I don't remember the tweet exactly, but it was like

1275
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:13,079
pretty severe backtrack. And then he was asked about it

1276
01:00:13,079 --> 01:00:16,320
on Sports Center like that night, and he was he

1277
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,239
like he dodged the question. I think he got a

1278
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,599
text from the Rockets like, hey, that's not what we're

1279
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:26,000
doing pale like like no, right, like, because it makes

1280
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:29,400
no sense either, Like logically, let's just say this take

1281
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:34,239
the my speculation that he was speculating aside. Right, logically,

1282
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,519
does it make any sense that they were going after

1283
01:00:36,719 --> 01:00:38,360
that this trade was about Kevin Durant.

1284
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: No, right, maybe he's entering his age thirty six season.

1285
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,760
That trade was not about Kevin Durant.

1286
01:00:44,599 --> 01:00:48,519
Speaker 2: Right, Like, I think that. I think this really was

1287
01:00:48,599 --> 01:00:50,760
just about the assets that they got. I mean, like

1288
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:57,239
what happened was New York saw an opportunity to go

1289
01:00:57,239 --> 01:01:00,920
get Michel Bridges. Brooklyn's like, we're not rating McKeil bridges

1290
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,119
while we don't have our own draft picks, and they

1291
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:08,760
called Houston, and Houston was offered them this trade before,

1292
01:01:09,159 --> 01:01:14,000
right like, hey, at the trade they threw this trade like, hey,

1293
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:17,559
we we like those phoenix picks that you have. We'll

1294
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:20,840
take those off your hands if you want your picks back.

1295
01:01:21,199 --> 01:01:24,760
So at the time, the Nets didn't find it appetizing.

1296
01:01:25,039 --> 01:01:27,199
But once once they got us a deal from mckil

1297
01:01:27,239 --> 01:01:29,320
bridge that they really liked, they're like, okay, let's go.

1298
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,320
We're gonna take you up on that offer. So we

1299
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,199
can execute this trade. That's exactly what happened.

1300
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: Right, I agree. So I want to make it clear

1301
01:01:38,119 --> 01:01:40,400
I probably would have made the trade too if I'm Houston,

1302
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,599
because it is to me it is a gamble, and

1303
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:44,400
a gamble I would have made. But it's a gamble

1304
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,639
in the sense that I do think that they got

1305
01:01:46,639 --> 01:01:49,199
to a point with the McHale bridges return. They would

1306
01:01:49,199 --> 01:01:51,880
have made that trade anyway with New York. And so

1307
01:01:52,039 --> 01:01:54,559
you can look at it as if you're Houston and

1308
01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:59,000
you are plotting something big, huge, massive, which I don't

1309
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:01,400
know if they're plotting it, but they're clearly like they're

1310
01:02:01,519 --> 01:02:07,239
stockpiling shit for it if the opportunity arises. The imminency

1311
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:10,480
of draft picks matters because most front offices do not

1312
01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:13,239
have the job security to say, if it's this trade deadline,

1313
01:02:13,239 --> 01:02:15,639
if it's next summer, I'm placing a ton of value

1314
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:17,920
on a twenty twenty nine first round pick or beyond,

1315
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,039
just because the job security isn't there. With that being said,

1316
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,039
you did get so much stuff where it's like you

1317
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:28,519
basically acquired the rights to three Phoenix Suns picks. When

1318
01:02:28,559 --> 01:02:30,679
you look at the way the swaps are going to play.

1319
01:02:30,519 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 2: Out and Stone got an extension, right, So.

1320
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,559
Speaker 1: I'm saying the Rockets might be in a and also

1321
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:37,840
they have enough talent where it's well, we're still trying

1322
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,599
to figure things out. These Nets picks have a drive

1323
01:02:40,679 --> 01:02:43,199
the car off the lot, like because they're going to

1324
01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:45,199
convey within the next couple of years. And by the way,

1325
01:02:45,239 --> 01:02:47,719
they still did keep the twenty twenty seven control, so

1326
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,920
like that's still interesting as well. But I do think

1327
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:52,960
and again I would have made the trade. I want

1328
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,199
to make it clear, but I do think people are

1329
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,119
kind of under selling that, Oh, Brooklyn would have been

1330
01:02:57,159 --> 01:02:59,320
so good, Like people are gonna look at it as, oh,

1331
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,559
to Houston, just give away the third pick or whatever

1332
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:04,320
the Nets get, And maybe it's not that extreme, but

1333
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:08,719
there there is a higher possibility that they the Nets

1334
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,039
would have been, would have conveyed a top five pick

1335
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,480
to Houston during one of those because I really do

1336
01:03:14,639 --> 01:03:16,960
believe that they Either one just wouldn't have been good

1337
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,039
because there was no trade out there for them to

1338
01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:21,039
get immediately better to the point where they would have

1339
01:03:21,079 --> 01:03:23,360
just nuked the value of those picks that Houston had.

1340
01:03:23,639 --> 01:03:25,599
And two, I think they got to a point where

1341
01:03:25,599 --> 01:03:28,320
the Knicks gave them so much stuff. Had Houston just

1342
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,800
said no, the mckal bridge's trade gets done anyway? Again,

1343
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,480
I disagree that's that's fair. I don't think a trade.

1344
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,480
I don't think a world in which the Nets trade

1345
01:03:39,519 --> 01:03:42,400
mckel bridges and the Rockets still own these picks was

1346
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,760
ever on the table. The reason I say that is,

1347
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,159
I mean, it's pretty clear if that happens. I mean,

1348
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:52,159
if you're if you're an owner, you should look at

1349
01:03:52,159 --> 01:03:54,280
it objectively, right, You shouldn't do you shouldn't do what

1350
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,159
I'm about to say, right, But it doesn't it feel

1351
01:03:57,199 --> 01:03:59,320
like Sean Marks is on the tail to lose his

1352
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,880
job if you gives up if this this franchise they

1353
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:05,920
just did this ten years ago, gives up another top three,

1354
01:04:06,519 --> 01:04:10,039
gives up two back to back Top five picks to

1355
01:04:10,119 --> 01:04:14,119
an organization when they're in the tank, like again, if

1356
01:04:14,159 --> 01:04:16,920
they if they do that again, doesn't that feel like

1357
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,239
something that could that could do Sean Marx's job?

1358
01:04:20,079 --> 01:04:22,519
Speaker 2: Right? Like, I don't think it should. I don't think

1359
01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:25,159
it should, to be clear, because you're right, that is

1360
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:27,000
a lot of value. You should look at it as

1361
01:04:27,199 --> 01:04:27,960
a sunk cost.

1362
01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: But my whole thing is is that if Sean Marx's

1363
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,719
job really was in jeopardy, you don't have the agency

1364
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,679
to do what he just did, which is start a

1365
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,639
rebuild by getting those your picks back from Houston.

1366
01:04:40,679 --> 01:04:42,559
Speaker 2: It's easier when you get your picks back, though.

1367
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: It's easier to sell. But if his job was really

1368
01:04:45,039 --> 01:04:47,880
like he clearly has the latitude top. And I think

1369
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,599
it's also universally understood that the organization itself made a

1370
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:54,320
misstep when they accepted the whole star thing. And so

1371
01:04:54,519 --> 01:04:57,320
the fact that also Sean mars has experience rebuilding without

1372
01:04:58,079 --> 01:04:59,840
his own picks because he did that when he first

1373
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:01,880
came to Brooklyn, I think that probably would have given

1374
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,760
him even more agency over Oh yeah, we're splitting hairs

1375
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:06,320
over whether yeah, well I don't think.

1376
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 2: I mean I see that to say, like, I mean, like, yeah,

1377
01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:12,159
I'll get his back on track. Like I loved that

1378
01:05:12,239 --> 01:05:13,679
trade right like.

1379
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: I did too. I thought it was a smart gamble

1380
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,320
and it kicked the can in a way. Of one

1381
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,000
of these picks. Let's use the twenty twenty five one

1382
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,159
as an example that's gonna be a player next summer.

1383
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:26,159
That player is inherently less valuable because it's an actual

1384
01:05:26,159 --> 01:05:29,119
player than this Phoenix selection in twenty twenty seven could

1385
01:05:29,159 --> 01:05:30,199
be anything. Yeah.

1386
01:05:30,199 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 2: Well, and also, like, let's just let's take your frame

1387
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,800
to be true. Let's take let's say they do accept

1388
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,960
that next trade and trade away mikel Bridges and you're

1389
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,880
Houston decides to turn around and Okay, we know that

1390
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,000
you don't have Michail Bridges. Uh, we're still gonna do

1391
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:48,719
this trade anyways with you after the fact that you

1392
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,360
just traded away Mikeil Bridges, and we know that this

1393
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,400
this net pick is gonna be extremely valuable. Let's say

1394
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:58,079
they did that, right, which I don't think, Like again,

1395
01:05:58,119 --> 01:05:59,920
I don't think that that world was possible, but let's

1396
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:02,760
just say it was. Okay, So you're giving up a

1397
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,960
top five pick next year, probably in all likelihood because

1398
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,119
that's how bad Brooklyn's gonna be this year. Yeah yeah,

1399
01:06:08,159 --> 01:06:12,760
and and the next year possibly again, right, what are

1400
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:14,400
you gonna do with two more top five picks? Like,

1401
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:16,119
how are you gonna optimize those guys?

1402
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,679
Speaker 1: I mean, one of those Cooper flag you figure it

1403
01:06:19,679 --> 01:06:21,000
out obviously.

1404
01:06:20,679 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 2: But maybe right, but I don't know that. And it's

1405
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,320
the top it's a thirteen percent chance that that is

1406
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:29,719
Cooper flag at best, right, and also, you have no

1407
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,000
breathing room to develop any of these talents, right, you're

1408
01:06:33,079 --> 01:06:35,519
kicking the can down the road, and you're getting assets

1409
01:06:35,559 --> 01:06:36,480
back with the.

1410
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: I guess my read on it was they made this

1411
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,320
trade because of how tied it is to one team

1412
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,079
with a very specific player in mind, or they're gaming

1413
01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:50,400
it so Devin Booker being the one, in which case

1414
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:52,599
it would shock me if Jalen Green is on this

1415
01:06:52,639 --> 01:06:54,440
team past the trade deadline, not that they're gonna get

1416
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,639
Devin Booker, but if that's like the apple of and

1417
01:06:57,719 --> 01:07:00,440
which is fair just because Devin Booker is in his prime,

1418
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,039
but like Kadi's not, even though he's still really good

1419
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,199
and he's gonna be a free agency and Bradley Beal

1420
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,719
still good, not in his prime. Or it's just like

1421
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,199
they wanted distant first for what you said, because one

1422
01:07:10,719 --> 01:07:12,760
it's harder to groom talents that are coming in, but

1423
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,719
two those picks are more valuable if you're really playing

1424
01:07:16,719 --> 01:07:19,280
the long game here, not twenty twenty five, not twenty

1425
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,320
twenty six. But like we're kind of waiting on like

1426
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,880
Giannis becoming available in Milwaukee, And so that's why I

1427
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,000
think it's smart, but it does I guess where I

1428
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,599
think Woje was onto something, and I don't think it

1429
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:32,599
was Kevin Durant. I one hundred percent agree with you there.

1430
01:07:33,239 --> 01:07:36,440
They made this trade to me where there feels like

1431
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,679
maybe there's a list of up to four players, but

1432
01:07:38,719 --> 01:07:40,559
like this trade was made with no more than three

1433
01:07:40,639 --> 01:07:43,800
or four players in mind. That was just my read

1434
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:46,559
on it, because I really do believe that the Nets

1435
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:49,119
would have made the mchal bridges trade anyway, in which case,

1436
01:07:49,159 --> 01:07:51,800
if you're Houston, you deal with the problem of having

1437
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:54,440
another top five pick when you have it, like that's

1438
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:56,119
a great problem to have.

1439
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 2: I'll say this, I do agree that the Nets should

1440
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,239
have made the mckil bridges treat anyways, right like, I

1441
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,280
do think they should have been feeling this as a

1442
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:08,480
sun costs their verbiage. I mean, what they were saying

1443
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,480
the media seems to indicate that they were worried about

1444
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,320
the optics of this, right like, like because they were

1445
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,760
talking about keeping mckil bridges and looking for the star

1446
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,239
that compliments of what the hell are you talking about them?

1447
01:08:20,279 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: The Donovan Mitchell extension talks feel like it pushed the

1448
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:24,720
Nets over the edge because like that was kind of

1449
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:26,199
the guy where it's like, well, he might just want

1450
01:08:26,199 --> 01:08:27,840
to go to New York and he doesn't care if

1451
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:29,560
it's not the Knicks, right, what.

1452
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,560
Speaker 2: Is that getting you? Like mckail bridges and Donovan, Like, okay,

1453
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:33,199
I get like.

1454
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,359
Speaker 1: That's also my point here is where was If that's

1455
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:38,960
how you feel about Donovan Mitchell mckel bridges, how do

1456
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,119
you feel about a team that's just built around mckel bridges.

1457
01:08:41,159 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 2: Then just yeah, I mean so it was just weird.

1458
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,359
It was just weird with what they were saying. But

1459
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:52,960
I also do think part of it may have been leverage, right,

1460
01:08:53,119 --> 01:08:56,039
leveraging them like like, hey, we're comfortable standing pat even

1461
01:08:56,039 --> 01:08:58,960
though a lot of people may call bullshit, right, like,

1462
01:08:59,039 --> 01:09:01,439
you know, you're really gonna you build around the half

1463
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,840
fun half fun bow, right like, but the Knicks clear

1464
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,840
didn't feel that way. So you know, I don't know,

1465
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:10,159
I don't know. It's tough to know. It's tough to know.

1466
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:14,560
Chances are will never know because we can't interview, Like,

1467
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,439
they're not gonna be honest about this, Brooklyn is never

1468
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:19,920
gonna be honest about the idea about Oh, they'll probably

1469
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:21,479
say what you're saying, which is like, we would have

1470
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:23,960
made this trade anyways, right, because it makes them look good.

1471
01:09:24,359 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: Right. I guess my overarching question to you, though, is like,

1472
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:30,319
do you believe that the trade that Houston, this is

1473
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:34,439
Houston's perspective, they made this move with specific players in mind,

1474
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,439
or that they made this move to just keep themselves

1475
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,720
flexible flash like flush more distant into the future because

1476
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,560
they're trying to not delay making that call. But just again,

1477
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,880
it's more about flexibility because those picks were more eminently

1478
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,600
gonna convey, which in their case, as you outline, I

1479
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,439
don't want to use the word problematic, but it would

1480
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,479
have been more of a logistical issue.

1481
01:09:56,239 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 2: I would say more sold the ladder. But the okay,

1482
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,439
Devin Booker, is an ancillary benefit like the Rocket's new right,

1483
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,239
like like like they're not naive, right, They're they're not

1484
01:10:06,279 --> 01:10:09,880
a dumb organization, They're not they they it was a

1485
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,920
side benefit for them, It's okay, like that we also

1486
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,800
have this over them, right, and now now we hold

1487
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:18,880
this over another franchise, well, and you just.

1488
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,119
Speaker 1: Saw how much franchise will give up to get back

1489
01:10:21,199 --> 01:10:25,039
its own pigs. With Brooklyn, I will say to Transition

1490
01:10:25,239 --> 01:10:28,399
back into like other stuff I do hate and I

1491
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,479
love transactions. People who say that transactions are stupid, I

1492
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:33,720
think that they're lame. I think everyone can root for

1493
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:35,479
the game how they want to, But it does kind

1494
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,760
of I don't necessarily like viewing the Rockets through that

1495
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,520
lens where they're just so fucking talented as currently constructed.

1496
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:44,119
But it's also a reality of what we've circled back

1497
01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:46,319
to nine times over on this podcast is just you

1498
01:10:46,359 --> 01:10:48,399
have so many guys that you know you're not gonna pay,

1499
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:49,800
and it's not even a matter of paying them, by

1500
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:52,000
the way, it's you've used this word a few times.

1501
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:54,520
How do you optimize all of these guys together? And

1502
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,279
the answer is you probably can't.

1503
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:59,199
Speaker 2: Right, And in this trade, like you know, I know

1504
01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:02,039
we want to focus on like enjoying the Rockets, but

1505
01:11:02,119 --> 01:11:04,359
this trade in a lot of ways allows us to

1506
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,399
enjoy the Rockets, right, because you're not getting more players

1507
01:11:07,399 --> 01:11:09,199
coming in to the draft.

1508
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: Right, That's a really good point.

1509
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I I think I think this kind

1510
01:11:13,359 --> 01:11:16,039
of gives like the I use this word a lot

1511
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:18,760
in my ride up for this right breathing room, this phrase,

1512
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,880
right breathing room, That's what this trade was about breathing room.

1513
01:11:22,199 --> 01:11:25,319
Let this roster breathe. I think that's why they didn't

1514
01:11:25,319 --> 01:11:27,319
do anything this summer. They want this roster to breathe

1515
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:33,319
and that data that whatever comes from this, right that

1516
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:36,359
will inform what they do next with the with the

1517
01:11:36,399 --> 01:11:39,479
Phoenix picks, with the players they have on roster. But

1518
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,840
I I think if you're if you're gonna ask me

1519
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,880
to take it back to your question. The underdiscussed topic

1520
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:48,439
with this Rockets team is the bounty of assets that

1521
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:51,239
they have when you count, when you talk combine the

1522
01:11:51,279 --> 01:11:55,439
players with the picks. I put them up against anybody

1523
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,920
aside from Oklahoma City. I think Oklahoma City probably has

1524
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:03,560
them beat right, but oh yeah, I mean other than that,

1525
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:06,840
even Utah, I think they have a case because Utah

1526
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:07,840
might have more picks.

1527
01:12:08,399 --> 01:12:11,199
Speaker 1: But those teams are good, and they're like Cleveland's built

1528
01:12:11,239 --> 01:12:15,079
to sustain even Minnesota and so young. And by the way,

1529
01:12:15,119 --> 01:12:17,199
what you mentioned though, is interesting. With the young players,

1530
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,159
it does get to a point where, like and that's

1531
01:12:19,159 --> 01:12:21,159
why I would almost bet on the like kind of

1532
01:12:21,159 --> 01:12:24,159
a major move coming within like the next season and

1533
01:12:24,199 --> 01:12:27,119
a half, those guys become inherently less valuable as they

1534
01:12:27,119 --> 01:12:29,920
get closer to their next contracts and like now we're

1535
01:12:30,039 --> 01:12:32,680
entering the phase of Okay, it's Alpern, Shangun and Jahn Green. Now,

1536
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,640
next year's Tar Easton and Jabari Smith Junior and then

1537
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,000
Aman Thompson and Cam wittmore right after him, and so

1538
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:41,720
like this stuff is going to happen like it's happening now,

1539
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:46,840
Like the you're rendering like really important wholesale directional verdicts

1540
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,680
like beginning right now because of just the stage of

1541
01:12:50,279 --> 01:12:52,000
the careers that these players are entering.

1542
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:55,159
Speaker 2: If the Rockets didn't get if they if they kept

1543
01:12:55,159 --> 01:12:58,800
the Brooklyn pick and they didn't get I'm sorry, who's

1544
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,439
what's his name? I'm forgetting Cooper Flag if they didn't.

1545
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,359
If they kept the pick and they didn't get Flag,

1546
01:13:03,399 --> 01:13:06,000
I'd feel kind of gross, Like you know when you

1547
01:13:06,039 --> 01:13:08,880
had like a heavy meal, right and like someone brings

1548
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:10,880
like a plate of cheese kick over. It's like I can't,

1549
01:13:11,319 --> 01:13:12,840
I can't, Like it's just too.

1550
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,119
Speaker 1: I'll never say no to cheesecake, but yeah, it's.

1551
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 2: Too much, right, Like I I'm stuffed. I don't know

1552
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:19,479
what to do with this food.

1553
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 1: And to your point, if people I will never frame

1554
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:24,520
it that way entirely, where if the Nets end up

1555
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:26,560
getting Cooper Flag because they get the number one pick,

1556
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,600
that outcome was made far more likely because they own

1557
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,760
their own pick. I want to make that absolutely clear.

1558
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:33,840
I don't view it as the Rockets punted on an

1559
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,960
opportunity to get Cooper Flag. I honestly, this is how

1560
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,600
I view it. That the Rockets gave up a top

1561
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,680
five pick in twenty twenty five as part of that deal.

1562
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:43,600
That's honestly how I'm viewing it. I think that's and

1563
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:45,520
again I would have made the trade. I want to

1564
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,760
make that clear. But to me, it's like it can't

1565
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:49,560
just be framed as, oh, the Nets would have been

1566
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,199
a thirty something win team if the Rockets weren't want

1567
01:13:52,199 --> 01:13:54,000
to make this deal, I just I don't buy it.

1568
01:13:54,039 --> 01:13:56,000
Even if they had mckail bridges, there's a chance that

1569
01:13:56,039 --> 01:13:58,880
they just suck, Like there are a lot better teams.

1570
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,720
Like if mckel bridges they weren't good last year, what

1571
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,359
was the pathway as currently constructed to them getting better

1572
01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:07,560
this year? They didn't really have one. So that's all

1573
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:08,880
I'm saying on that.

1574
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,119
Speaker 2: And I guess what I'm saying is Sean Marx is

1575
01:14:11,119 --> 01:14:13,319
never gonna tell us. There's no point arguing it anymore, right,

1576
01:14:13,319 --> 01:14:13,880
Like he's.

1577
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: Never gonna tell feel like we're not even really arguing.

1578
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:16,279
We're not.

1579
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 2: We kind of are because we're like we're talking about

1580
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,880
like whether or not this trade would have happened, right

1581
01:14:22,399 --> 01:14:25,520
had had their picks getting back, And like, really, we're

1582
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,520
not gonna know, right because because.

1583
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 1: Maybe when Marx gets fired, they'll be like a tell

1584
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:31,720
all or something.

1585
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 2: Perhaps, right, and like, really like, we don't know what

1586
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,159
that ownership is thinking. And even if we knew what

1587
01:14:40,199 --> 01:14:43,680
that ownership was thinking, who knows if that changes on

1588
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:45,920
a dime when they see the pure volume of draft

1589
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:51,239
capital coming in right, like, and they like owners I know,

1590
01:14:51,279 --> 01:14:54,279
they pretend like they don't read Twitter. They re Twitter

1591
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:56,520
if they see all the craft that we say about,

1592
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,479
like they got all this from mckail bridges, Like everything

1593
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,159
we were saying that night, I'm telling you that stuff

1594
01:15:03,159 --> 01:15:06,039
influences his ownership. So maybe it's maybe even if like

1595
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,239
his in his head, he's like, you're really gonna have

1596
01:15:09,399 --> 01:15:11,079
us at the bottom of the of and we're gonna work.

1597
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:13,840
We're gonna give up another top pive pick again after

1598
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:15,520
you read all that stuff. It's okay. Maybe that gives

1599
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,279
you more reassurance in the plan, right, I don't know.

1600
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:19,960
I don't know, We're never gonna know.

1601
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:24,319
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this an encore question at full strength,

1602
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,159
what does the top ten rotation look like for this team?

1603
01:15:29,039 --> 01:15:37,239
Speaker 2: Shengon with Moore, Thompson, Van Vleet, Green, Tait.

1604
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 1: Guaranteed you think wow.

1605
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:43,159
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't see him on the outskirts to

1606
01:15:43,199 --> 01:15:47,199
the row of the main rotation because why do you

1607
01:15:47,319 --> 01:15:50,840
have him right like he's on this last year and

1608
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,760
you want to maximize his value and you can't play

1609
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,920
him in the G League, right, So I'd say Tate's

1610
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,560
in there, I say, did I say Jabari?

1611
01:16:02,079 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: So it might be better to do it this way.

1612
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,920
So I have as their starters are gonna be Van Vliet,

1613
01:16:07,039 --> 01:16:11,079
Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks, Jabbari and Shang Gun. Yeah, and

1614
01:16:11,079 --> 01:16:16,000
then I have Aman Thompson, Tarry Eason, cam Whitmore and

1615
01:16:16,039 --> 01:16:19,640
Steven Adams as my locks, so that would be nine.

1616
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:22,600
I had read Shepherd as a lock too, That's why

1617
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,359
I rounded up my ten. But clearly we're not on

1618
01:16:24,359 --> 01:16:25,800
the same page there, and I have to default to

1619
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:27,399
you because you know this team is so much better

1620
01:16:27,399 --> 01:16:27,800
than I do.

1621
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,239
Speaker 2: I'd say Tate. I would say Tate's a lock too,

1622
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:32,680
So Tate.

1623
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:39,079
Speaker 1: Over Shepherd or Tate over Adams at that point Shepherd Adams.

1624
01:16:39,239 --> 01:16:42,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're gonna have to play him, and

1625
01:16:43,239 --> 01:16:45,640
they really seem seem to help bent On getting a

1626
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,439
backup center. So yeah, he's a lock too. I did that.

1627
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:50,520
That's a good ten for a lock. But yeah, I mean,

1628
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:52,800
and and then I'd say they're probably gonna play more

1629
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:57,239
like twelve guys, right, So I'd say the other two, Well,

1630
01:16:57,439 --> 01:16:59,640
who you're getting is, uh, who do we leave out?

1631
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 1: Well? You left out Shephard, right, he's out. There's Josh

1632
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:05,000
Landell's there.

1633
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 2: He's out.

1634
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you also have on this team. No, I think

1635
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,359
that's Oh Jeff Green is still on this team. He

1636
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:13,520
might get Griffin. By the way, Aaron Holiday.

1637
01:17:13,239 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 2: Phone around so many fucking guys, man, AJ Griffin's not

1638
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,079
playing Aaron had I still like him though, But yeah,

1639
01:17:20,119 --> 01:17:23,239
Aaron Hardy might play. I mean it could be some

1640
01:17:23,319 --> 01:17:24,880
of this could be Night to Night too. Let's just

1641
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:25,319
be honest.

1642
01:17:25,359 --> 01:17:27,039
Speaker 1: I was just again, I was forcing you to choose

1643
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:29,560
the top ten. So yeah, I think Sheppard is going

1644
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:35,279
to be a bust, And that's fine, I agree.

1645
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:38,520
Speaker 2: And what's unfortunate is, like I think he's very, very talented.

1646
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,359
I just don't see a pathway to playing time his

1647
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:44,119
first year. And like if that's if that doesn't happen,

1648
01:17:44,159 --> 01:17:48,119
it doesn't bother me because like I mean, let's just

1649
01:17:48,159 --> 01:17:52,319
say high end outcome. Like, wasn't Steve Nash coming off

1650
01:17:52,359 --> 01:17:56,319
the bench his first year in Brooklyn and New Jersey?

1651
01:17:56,359 --> 01:17:58,119
Excuse me? Was in New Jersey? No you could?

1652
01:17:58,119 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: You got drafted for the Dallas his first year?

1653
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 2: He got Yes, you're right man, he bounced around, Okay, yeah,

1654
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:05,760
yeah he was in Dallas, right, wasn't wasn't he coming

1655
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:06,319
off the bench.

1656
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:10,239
Speaker 1: If I'm not, Uh, I'm too look I'm old. I'm

1657
01:18:10,239 --> 01:18:11,880
not that old, uh to know?

1658
01:18:12,199 --> 01:18:14,159
Speaker 2: Whatever the case? Yeah, whatever the case.

1659
01:18:14,399 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 1: He was Again, he was in Phoenix. I missed that.

1660
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:18,520
His first two years were in Phoenix and it's Dallas.

1661
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:20,920
Back to Phoenix. He he came off the bench his

1662
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:22,319
first two seasons, correct, Yeah?

1663
01:18:22,359 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like so like high end, high end outcome, right,

1664
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:28,199
Like like I don't I'm not saying that's just hyena out,

1665
01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:29,640
but like it's just a player that comes to mind

1666
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:33,640
when I take a read, like you can still reach

1667
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,000
it if you're if you're if you don't have a

1668
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:37,560
big role your first couple of years in the NBA.

1669
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 1: It would not stop me. If it gets to the

1670
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,960
point whereough where like denying him minutes becomes impossible. I'm

1671
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,800
just I'm super high and Reachepherd, I think it depends

1672
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,039
on how well you think he's gonna immediately translate this.

1673
01:18:47,039 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 2: And but by the way, I'm gonna be completely upfront

1674
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:50,840
about this because I criticize other people for doing it.

1675
01:18:51,119 --> 01:18:53,359
I thought of Steve Nash because I was thinking of

1676
01:18:53,359 --> 01:18:56,079
a white guy, right Like, I'm gonna be completely upfront.

1677
01:18:56,199 --> 01:18:58,000
I just want to be upfront because I make fun

1678
01:18:58,039 --> 01:19:01,159
of people from making the comparisons. I the first player

1679
01:19:01,159 --> 01:19:03,359
to come to mind with Steve Nash for me, because

1680
01:19:03,399 --> 01:19:05,560
Rea Shepherd is white. I'm just that's the only reason

1681
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:07,760
I named it. I'm gonna be up front. I believe

1682
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:08,439
in honesty here.

1683
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,399
Speaker 1: That's why whenever people ask me for my modest buzzellis

1684
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:13,800
comp I put my pinky up and say Pascal Siakam

1685
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,079
because that's the first name I came to me for him.

1686
01:19:16,239 --> 01:19:20,279
Speaker 2: But can I beat you there, Yeah, go ahead, Chandler

1687
01:19:20,319 --> 01:19:23,600
Parsons's Pinky's U comparison.

1688
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 1: Uh, this question is actually I find it not a

1689
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:33,039
brain dead exercise, but like some team that's not as interesting.

1690
01:19:33,039 --> 01:19:36,159
For this team, it's kind of interesting what becomes their

1691
01:19:36,199 --> 01:19:39,600
most used crunch time lineup. I know it's matchup dependent.

1692
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:41,520
I'm forcing you to say, what's gonna become there? Is

1693
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:43,720
it just their starting five? Or is it is there

1694
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,680
the potential to tinker to get Amen Thompson in there? Specifically?

1695
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:47,760
Is the name that I'm thinking of?

1696
01:19:48,319 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you swap off Dylan Brooks for Amen, that

1697
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:55,319
could be it. I just tend to believe it is

1698
01:19:55,319 --> 01:20:00,279
the starting starting five. Maybe just fair, I mean, or

1699
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,560
this is mean? I mean if it's if you're not

1700
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,520
gonna swap out Brooks, maybe you swap out jam and

1701
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:09,199
you put in.

1702
01:20:10,159 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 1: That's not mean if he's not having like the year

1703
01:20:12,039 --> 01:20:12,720
that you need him to.

1704
01:20:13,119 --> 01:20:15,039
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, like, I like, maybe you put in

1705
01:20:15,079 --> 01:20:17,640
with Moore because he's having a better game or something,

1706
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,439
right like like or you you can't really go small

1707
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:23,319
because you need Shangun to be in the game. I

1708
01:20:23,319 --> 01:20:25,760
think he's just he needs to be in the closing five,

1709
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:32,319
so that eliminates the jabbari at five lineups. But maybe

1710
01:20:32,359 --> 01:20:36,840
you put in maybe you swap out Brooks for like Tari,

1711
01:20:37,039 --> 01:20:40,000
Maybe you swap out Smith for like Tari, right, like

1712
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,199
like there's there are ways you can go. I mean,

1713
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:47,119
this team is so deep, right and like it's so

1714
01:20:47,119 --> 01:20:52,840
so deep. The reason they're not a contender is really

1715
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:56,279
their top end talent isn't contender worthy. But if you

1716
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,960
swapped out their top end talent, like swap out Fred

1717
01:21:00,079 --> 01:21:02,640
van Vliet for like shag Yogis and you swap out

1718
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,359
like I don't know, like let's just say Shane Goon

1719
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,199
say he's not ready yet for like Jokic, like like

1720
01:21:08,319 --> 01:21:10,560
that you swap that's okay. That this team is like

1721
01:21:11,119 --> 01:21:15,039
pick the rest of the roster as is his contender rights.

1722
01:21:15,039 --> 01:21:16,399
Speaker 1: The better way to frame it is they have four

1723
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,720
I would say, fourteen guys where they would be in

1724
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:23,399
any teams like rotation like twelve man, like you take four,

1725
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:25,720
they would you would be in any rotation, which is

1726
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:26,800
that's wild depth.

1727
01:21:27,319 --> 01:21:30,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have championship death, but they don't have championship

1728
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:31,880
top into calber players.

1729
01:21:32,319 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 1: Uh, what what's a funky lineup you would like to

1730
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:36,159
see them try this year.

1731
01:21:36,159 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 2: A funky lineup. Uh, let's go all guards. Uh, let's

1732
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:45,479
go uh Van Vliet, let's go Green, Let's go Thompson,

1733
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:49,199
let's go, let's throw out but Jabari. Uh. Let's let's

1734
01:21:49,199 --> 01:21:53,279
put in maybe maybe even read like hell, want to

1735
01:21:53,279 --> 01:21:54,039
play all guards?

1736
01:21:54,119 --> 01:21:54,279
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1737
01:21:54,359 --> 01:21:59,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, slide Thompson down to the four. Let's let's play.

1738
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:01,439
Uh shango, I'm men next to each other. I mean,

1739
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:03,399
I guess that's that's that's that's pretty.

1740
01:22:03,079 --> 01:22:06,239
Speaker 1: Funky, right, Yeah. I think I would like it to

1741
01:22:06,319 --> 01:22:12,359
be Amen Thompson, Reed, Shepherd, Tarry Eason, Cam Whitmore. And

1742
01:22:12,319 --> 01:22:15,079
then I'm debating of how unhinged I want to be.

1743
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:17,640
I won't be two one hinged. I'll say Jabari Smith

1744
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,319
because then that gives me like some semblance of realism.

1745
01:22:20,359 --> 01:22:22,680
But if I wanted to be like unhinged, I would

1746
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:25,439
say just like throw Jalen Green out there and say,

1747
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,079
like just make Amend play the five.

1748
01:22:27,319 --> 01:22:29,520
Speaker 2: Well limits this team a little bit with the lineups

1749
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:32,840
as the shooting right, like like like if you could

1750
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,640
if you just had one non shooter, you can get

1751
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:37,640
really fun with this. That's why it's tough for me

1752
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:39,840
to answer this question. To be honest, like, because you

1753
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:41,720
have two non shooters that you have to account for,

1754
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:43,920
it's tough for me to get crazy with it like

1755
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:46,520
i'd like to. But you have to think about that

1756
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:48,159
as you form out lineups.

1757
01:22:49,159 --> 01:22:53,319
Speaker 1: So as we record this on August to twenty third,

1758
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,119
their win total over under is set at forty three

1759
01:22:56,159 --> 01:22:58,680
point five. Are you taking the over the under? And

1760
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:02,680
how many teams are you prepared to guarantee or are

1761
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,000
you confident that they will be better than in the

1762
01:23:05,039 --> 01:23:06,119
West this year?

1763
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,199
Speaker 2: That's a that's a that's a really good over under man,

1764
01:23:12,279 --> 01:23:14,079
I mean like that, that's.

1765
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,520
Speaker 1: Like, that's just like these people, they are the reason

1766
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:18,119
that Vegas might be good at this. I feel like

1767
01:23:18,159 --> 01:23:19,359
I say that about every team.

1768
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like that that that they I think

1769
01:23:22,079 --> 01:23:25,880
they nailed that. But I will slightly take the over.

1770
01:23:26,159 --> 01:23:28,920
I probably would say like forty five is where I land,

1771
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:33,079
uh for for for win total. What was your second question?

1772
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: How many teams do you like? Which teams do you

1773
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:37,760
look at in the West and say, Okay, Houston will

1774
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:38,760
be better than them.

1775
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:41,560
Speaker 2: For sure, Houston. I kind of have to think about

1776
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:43,319
it the other way. Who's gonna be better than them?

1777
01:23:43,319 --> 01:23:45,960
For sure, so oh, okay, see better than for sure Denver,

1778
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:50,720
better than for sure Utah. I think, I think I

1779
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:52,960
think Houston has a chance to be better than them.

1780
01:23:53,279 --> 01:23:56,720
I think, old, let me look at this, the San Antonio.

1781
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:58,880
For sure, they're gonna better than San Antonio. I feel

1782
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:00,840
pretty confidencaing they're gonna Santonio.

1783
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:04,600
Speaker 1: I think that San Antonio, Portland, and Utah I think

1784
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:08,079
might be the only teams I'm prepared to guarantee, like

1785
01:24:08,159 --> 01:24:11,800
I struggle with the Lakers and the Warriors of it All,

1786
01:24:12,399 --> 01:24:14,079
like I could even the Kings, like I could even

1787
01:24:14,119 --> 01:24:16,880
the Pelicans right now, I could see them just being

1788
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:19,840
mixed within that tier. And so if I had to

1789
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,640
pick a number of teams that I would guarantee that

1790
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:24,920
Houston is better than, I would go with three. I

1791
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:26,880
don't know that I'm willing to go higher than that.

1792
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:29,319
Speaker 2: Can I Can I say I think that I think

1793
01:24:29,319 --> 01:24:30,960
there are four teams that they're better than then, but

1794
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,000
I just don't know what the four team is yet.

1795
01:24:33,199 --> 01:24:35,039
Speaker 1: I think I think it's fair to play the odds

1796
01:24:35,079 --> 01:24:36,920
and say, oh, they'll be better than at least one

1797
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:40,600
of Let's say I'm just names Lakers, New Orleans Warriors,

1798
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:42,000
Kings typed you I could.

1799
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:45,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say pretty much where

1800
01:24:45,279 --> 01:24:46,840
I was gonna I was gonna narrow it down to, like,

1801
01:24:47,039 --> 01:24:49,800
I think they're gonna be better than one of La or

1802
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:54,560
Golden State, and it's just a matter of who's healthier.

1803
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:57,920
And I you know, you're not gonna get perfect heult

1804
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:00,000
from all these teams. But with the thing with Houston

1805
01:25:00,199 --> 01:25:02,159
is even if you don't get perfect health from Houston,

1806
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,600
because they're so deep, they'll be fine. There's still it's

1807
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:09,079
not going to impact them much unless that health is Shangun, Right,

1808
01:25:09,079 --> 01:25:11,720
Shangoon is the one one player where it's like if

1809
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:13,760
you don't get perfect health from him, or if you

1810
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:17,119
don't get perfect health from Van Vliet, that's those are

1811
01:25:17,159 --> 01:25:20,199
real factors. But everybody else, I'm sorry, I don't. I don't,

1812
01:25:20,199 --> 01:25:20,520
I don't.

1813
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:21,039
Speaker 1: I don't.

1814
01:25:21,119 --> 01:25:23,439
Speaker 2: It's crass to put it this way. If they get hurt,

1815
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,640
you can still you can still have a really strong season.

1816
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:30,640
Speaker 1: So Simon, I don't know the order in which these

1817
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:32,279
will be coming out, but so far we've got ten

1818
01:25:32,319 --> 01:25:34,199
in the books, and you have been the longest, and

1819
01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:36,079
that should probably be whenever you and I get together.

1820
01:25:36,159 --> 01:25:39,079
We just fucking ramble. But with that being said, is

1821
01:25:39,079 --> 01:25:41,840
there anything any one I didn't ask about we didn't

1822
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:43,560
cover that you think needs to be touched on? We

1823
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:47,000
didn't mention that Emi Udoka probably deserves probably deserve more

1824
01:25:47,039 --> 01:25:49,359
Coach of the Year love for reigning in Dylan Brooks's

1825
01:25:49,359 --> 01:25:52,319
shot selection on offense. That was not something that I

1826
01:25:52,399 --> 01:25:55,319
foresaw coming, So shout out to that. But anything else

1827
01:25:55,319 --> 01:25:56,520
do you think that we need to discuss?

1828
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:58,039
Speaker 2: Do you want to know who did foresee it?

1829
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:01,600
Speaker 1: You did? You were you know what? You also foresaw?

1830
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,079
You were on the Alpern goon train long before anyone.

1831
01:26:05,319 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this anymore because like because

1832
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,399
like I I've done too many laps on this. But

1833
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:13,520
the Dylan Brooks thing, I'm gonna take credit because you

1834
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:18,199
look at Marcus Smart's shot selection with with with versus

1835
01:26:18,199 --> 01:26:21,279
with other coaches. You could see it. You could see it.

1836
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:23,319
That's all I'm gonna say. I'm I just want to

1837
01:26:23,359 --> 01:26:24,960
say it. That's all I'm gonna say and leave it

1838
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:27,960
at that, because I don't want to take victory laps

1839
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:30,199
on this. On the Shangun thing, it happened, it's done,

1840
01:26:30,199 --> 01:26:32,960
it's over. Let's move on. Let's let's all be team Shangun.

1841
01:26:33,159 --> 01:26:33,680
Let's all be.

1842
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,640
Speaker 1: Even the negative feedback loop to which all of us

1843
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,119
content creators are subject to. You should take as many

1844
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,960
damn victory laps as you want. That's my official stance.

1845
01:26:42,039 --> 01:26:43,760
Speaker 2: I want us all to enjoy Shangun. I don't want to.

1846
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:44,920
I don't want to make them polarizing.

1847
01:26:45,119 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: A yeah, he's polarizing for no reason. Though polarizing, we

1848
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:51,479
know what it is.

1849
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:52,920
Speaker 2: I mean, like, but but I don't want to make

1850
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:55,399
I don't want to make it more polarizing.

1851
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:57,399
Speaker 1: Right. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss before

1852
01:26:57,399 --> 01:26:58,920
I let usky datto that?

1853
01:26:59,079 --> 01:27:02,159
Speaker 2: No, I'm good. Should be a fun season. It's gonna

1854
01:27:02,159 --> 01:27:02,880
be a fun Rocket team.

1855
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: This team is I haven't done my League Pass rankings

1856
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:06,720
podcast yet, but they're gonna be like very close to

1857
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,279
the top because I have so many questions that I

1858
01:27:09,319 --> 01:27:11,119
don't have answers for with them in a good way.

1859
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I just enjoy having another

1860
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:21,720
non pressure Rocket. Is there anybody expecting anything like other

1861
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:24,039
than like, oh, they're gonna be scrappy. Is anyone saying

1862
01:27:24,079 --> 01:27:26,079
like they're gonna be a playoff team like I.

1863
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 1: So my guest would be that after winning forty one

1864
01:27:30,079 --> 01:27:33,239
games and getting Red Shepherd and seeing what Amn Thompson

1865
01:27:33,279 --> 01:27:36,319
and Cam Witmore did last year, I would cut like

1866
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,039
you you're better in touch about doesn't the Rockets fan

1867
01:27:39,079 --> 01:27:41,279
base probably think that this is a fish in the

1868
01:27:41,279 --> 01:27:41,760
top six?

1869
01:27:42,079 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 2: Does the national audience that think like I think?

1870
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:47,439
Speaker 1: Look, the West is too like people have just forgotten

1871
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:49,760
that Memphis at full strength exists, and so it's like

1872
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:54,279
between Memphis, Minnesota, Denver is still there, Like Phoenix got

1873
01:27:54,319 --> 01:27:57,800
better and like they they won almost fifty games while

1874
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,800
not having really a fun season. The Clips are fading out,

1875
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,279
but the Mavericks are on the rise, and like the

1876
01:28:03,359 --> 01:28:05,760
Kings technically got better. There's just the West is such

1877
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:07,720
a jumble that it wouldn't shock me if you told

1878
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,920
me the Rockets got sixth place. But they're like I

1879
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:12,600
think you need to be realistic.

1880
01:28:12,199 --> 01:28:14,199
Speaker 2: And to be clear, I don't blame anyone from that,

1881
01:28:14,319 --> 01:28:16,119
Like that's where I'm That's where I'm at too. But

1882
01:28:16,319 --> 01:28:19,199
what I'm saying is this is the sweet spot for fandom, right,

1883
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:23,279
no expectations to like and it's still fun, still a

1884
01:28:23,319 --> 01:28:26,239
good team, right, you got one more year of like okay,

1885
01:28:26,319 --> 01:28:29,279
like no one really cares, right, and then you know

1886
01:28:29,319 --> 01:28:31,159
the next year it's really worth stop picked up.

1887
01:28:31,199 --> 01:28:33,520
Speaker 1: This is as soon as you pay that first guy

1888
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:35,159
of your own. I know they paid Fred van Fleet

1889
01:28:35,199 --> 01:28:36,920
and Dylan Brooks, but that first guy that you paid

1890
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:39,359
your own, that's when the pressure kicks in. By the way,

1891
01:28:39,399 --> 01:28:42,000
I also think what's gonna help keep expectations in check?

1892
01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:44,760
I do think that the organization is going to prioritize,

1893
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,800
like they're not gonna try and be bad, Like they're

1894
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:49,439
going to make sure that they get extensive looks at

1895
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:51,520
all of these guys. Would be like aman Thompson being

1896
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,279
more like they're going to experiment still would be my

1897
01:28:54,319 --> 01:28:54,880
gut feeling.

1898
01:28:55,279 --> 01:28:58,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also like like the Rafel's getting freedom to

1899
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:00,600
do his job right, Like that Phoenix trade was a

1900
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,800
very very long term trade, like the way they built

1901
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,000
this roster out very very long term driven. Right, They're

1902
01:29:06,039 --> 01:29:08,319
not They didn't trade for a star of the first

1903
01:29:08,359 --> 01:29:11,600
opportunities they got. I like that. Let's keep it like that.

1904
01:29:12,399 --> 01:29:14,279
Speaker 1: Sami, can you just tell our listeners quickly where they

1905
01:29:14,319 --> 01:29:15,840
can find you and all the great work that you do.

1906
01:29:16,039 --> 01:29:18,359
Speaker 2: Re nation hoops dot Com at Red Nation Hoops on

1907
01:29:18,359 --> 01:29:22,359
Twitter at Somo the NBA on Twitter. Not really doing

1908
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:27,279
much nowadays, I mean right now, I'm keeping with the

1909
01:29:27,319 --> 01:29:31,199
theme of the summer in that it's boring and it's great,

1910
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:35,600
it's blissful. Let's be boring together and.

1911
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:38,359
Speaker 1: Be even Let's all be boring together. And with that salmon,

1912
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:40,239
thank you so much for all your time and insight,

1913
01:29:40,279 --> 01:29:42,039
and as you know, I'll be pastoring you to get

1914
01:29:42,079 --> 01:29:43,920
in the future for another eight hour podcast.

1915
01:29:44,159 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 2: Sorry to take an hour a half hour, you say,