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Speaker 1: I hope you survived while I was gone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were many tears, but we didn't make you.

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Speaker 3: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

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what you can do for your country. Mister gorbachaw tear

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down this wall.

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Speaker 1: It's the Ricochet Podcast with General C. W. Cook and

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Stephen Hayward James Lylyx. Today we talked to Eli Lake

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about what else the Mideast? So let's have ourselves a

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PODCASTA Yakobar.

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Speaker 4: INSTI I, Ram's got a lot of trouble and they

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want to negotiate. And I said, why didn't you negotiate

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with me before all this death and destruction? Why didn't

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you nego I said to the paper, why didn't you

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negotiate with me two weeks ago?

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody. This is the Ricochet Podcast, number say one

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hundred and forty six or seven hundred and forty three

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for me, James lilas your sort of host, because I've

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been gone for a couple of weeks, swanning about Europe

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and guess what, here's the good news. I'm not going

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to tell you a single thing about it, because who cares.

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What we do care is that we have Stephen Hayward

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with us who might be in some exciting locale he

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could drop a few words about, and Charles C. Cook

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will be around in a bit. We don't know what's

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holding him up. The possible speculation was that he's checked

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himself into the er because he's having yet another embolism

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and or aneurism about the TikTok law. But we'll get

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to that when we get to that. Eli Lake will

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could be coming on a little bit later. This could

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actually be called perhaps the Overtaken by Events podcast, because

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you never know what's going to happen in the next

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twenty four forty eight seventy two is a fluid world

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more than ever. But Steven, hello, where are you?

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Speaker 3: I am still, as you might put it, flouncing around

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Ireland for a few more days. Then I'll be back

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and I'll be quiet about it.

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Speaker 1: How are you fight? Well, I'm just going to ask

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this because I know the travelogs and can sometimes just

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bore the absolute living pith out of everybody. But how

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are you Are you finding Ireland to be congruent with

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some of the reports that we get over here, because

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you know, I was just in Italy and England and

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if you listen sometimes to people fulminating on the internet,

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you would find that both of these civilizations were incomplete

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and utter collapse. And of course that's not what you see.

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Is Ireland going through the sort of the social convulsions

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that we see from time to time popping up in

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the tweets?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think so. But it's hard as a

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tourist to really know what's going on. I'll just give

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you two data points. One the Irish Examiner newspaper which

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I picked up. They actually have old fashioned tabloids and

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broadsheet newspapers, the old fashion kind, right.

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Speaker 1: Don't you love them? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 3: But there's a lead story in the Irish Examiner yesterday

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that said far right interests are organizing online, which is

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strange since they don't have a political party, you know,

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so they're just as clueless as our reporters about how

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these things work. And then there will be tomorrow in

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Dublin a major protest. It sounds like it's populous inflected

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complaints against current policies. I don't know, it's a little vague.

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I'm going to try and turn up for it because

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I'll be back in Dublin and I'll let you know

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if it's interesting as it might be, But I'm out

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in the countryside, and the countryside, of course, is glorious

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and green and fun. And the driving on the left

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side is a challenge, except when the road is so

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narrow that there is no left.

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Speaker 5: Or right side.

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Speaker 1: So there's that, don't you love that? The one lane

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with a curve and the bushes that are high and

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you can't see anybody coming, And you wonder, how does

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this country survive without at least at four hundred and

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seventy six head on collisions per day? I do, yeah, No.

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I had a similar disconnected experience from the news in

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which you go over there expecting the country in turmoil,

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and then find yourself gavating around the maze in a

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baronial estate somewhere. It's just don't you love it? But

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back here America scur metty scurmetti, which actually sounds like

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it should be an odds indie metal band or something

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like that. Six' three, victory which are summer, saying is

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a victory for ten and as these children others are, saying,

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well you can. EXPECT a majority opinion wrote that The

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Laws committee is subject to rational basis. Review what's that

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it seems like these are three things that are absent

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in our world. Today But, steven why don't you walk

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people through?

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Speaker 3: This well you want me, To, WELL i tend to

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Let charles do it because he's probably read more of

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it THAN i. Have i'll just say this about rational basis.

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Review you could say a. LOT i don't want, to

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but the rational basis, said essentially for decades, now if

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there's some reason the legislature thinks a law will end

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harm to some group or some person or provide a,

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benefit then we the judiciary will defer to. It Justice

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scalia used to call it the babbling idiots, tests because he,

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said any legislature that can't come up with some rationale

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for why what they're doing is good for the, world

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it's clearly. Incompetent so and the courts have been way

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too deferential and rational.

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Speaker 5: Basis BUT i.

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Speaker 3: Do think the concurring opinions from other conservative justice as

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are in this case more important and more. Significant but

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Here i'll kick it over To. Trump, charles by the,

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way glad to see, you and we were going to

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do a welfare check on. You worry that you might

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be you, know in the emergency room because Of trump's

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las TikTok postponeman no.

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Speaker 2: NO i was dealing with a severe crisis at my,

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house which was that there was a dead wasp in

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the pool and children horrified by. This apparently only a

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grown up could pick up the pool scoop and get

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rid of the dead. Wasps that's Why i'm one minute. Late,

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well if you've won dead, WASP i suggest there are

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more wasps. ABOUT i saw a drone taking out a

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wasp nest the other day on the. Internet was, very

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very ingenious because it's you, know what can't they? DO

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i love killing. Wasps i'm an absolute saciopath when it

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comes to killing.

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Speaker 1: Wasps, well they deserve. Killing as they used to, say

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the bad guys in The Old, west your. Honor he deserved,

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it he earned. It so we have been talking about

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screwmty and we presume that you've read the, law that

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you've read the, decision and you have thoughts upon. IT

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a hungry nation shurns its ears to.

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Speaker 2: You, well the, reason As stephen, plied that rational basis

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review matters is that it is in essence the idea

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that a legislature gets to, legislate which is to say

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that any law that can't pass rational basis review must be.

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Preposterous it must say something, like all of the people

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In florida's where purple socks on A thursday because the

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governor's name Is. Steve at that point a legislature might,

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say but beyond, that as long as it represents the

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will of the people and it can be coherently, explained it. Passes,

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now that is of course how most laws are. Judged

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but in this, case THE aclu wanted The Supreme court

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to rule That tennessee's law was not subject to rational basis,

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review but required a higher standard that could not be

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med and was therefore liable to be struck down on

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the grounds that in this case it violated The Equal

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protection clause of The Fourteenth. Amendment past in eighteen sixty,

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eight The Supreme court, said, no it doesn't violate The

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Equal protection clause of The Fourteenth. Amendment and there were

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really two reasons given for this across the majority. Opinions

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one is quite complicated because it revolves around the question

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of what a trans person is and whether or not

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a transperson is going to in the equal protection clauses

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protections of people who are of a particular type being

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treated differently than people of another, type and that was

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The roberts opinion, saying, no this doesn't. Count and then

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you had a separate opinion from our concurrence From Amy Cony,

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barrett who, said you know, what trans people actually aren't

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a protective group in the first, place so it doesn't

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matter whether or not the pretzel logic that was used

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by THE acou, obtains because even if it, did trans

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people cannot by definition be part of the sort of

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groups that we traditionally considered having mutable characteristics and therefore

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be protected by the Fourteenth. Amendment and then you Had

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kagan's opinion in The, descent WHICH i think is an

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odd one for the purposes of this, discussion because Although kagan,

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dissented she implicitly acknowledged That tennessee's law would have survived

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the standard of review that she.

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Speaker 1: Wanted she just.

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Speaker 2: Thought that it was liable to be looked at by

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the court in a different way than rational basis. Reviewer

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but she basically, said, look this lord, stands so it

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was really seven too in the law's. Favor and then

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you have the dissents From sotomayo And jackson that to

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sum it up in legal terms just sort of went.

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Speaker 6: And left it.

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Speaker 2: There so it's.

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Speaker 1: Hard, yeah it is hard to argue the immutable characteristics

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aspect in this, case is it?

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Speaker 6: Not when they're.

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Speaker 1: Talking when they're talking about the definition seems to be

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the very mutability of them and the subjective view of

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what these attributes.

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Speaker 2: Are, yeah but the important thing to say here conclusion

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is that the case that was brought by The score

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was really really weak and frivolous even and that this

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is set back this legal argument for quite a long.

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Time all the, press of, course has focused on it

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will set back the political agenda of the, transmittent but

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that's not what the court was being asked to. Consider

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the legal precedent that was set here is really bad

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for those who want to argue preposterously that The Fourteenth

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amendment prevents states from passing laws that have anything to

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do with trans. People AND i don't know What steve

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thinks of, this but the COMPARISON i saw some drawers With.

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Gluxburg gluxburg was A Supreme court decision in which the

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plaintiffs argued that The Fourteenth amendment prohibited states from banning assisted,

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suicide and The Supreme court, Said i'm not even SURE

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i agree with this, opinion BECAUSE i think the whole

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edifice on which it is built. Nonsense but The Supreme court, said, no,

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no the only exceptions to the substantive due process doctrine

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of those that were really built into our nation's history and.

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Speaker 1: Tradition and.

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Speaker 2: As a, result they lost that. Case but they've also

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lost a lot of subsequent cases because of that. Standard

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and so the, argument SO i understand it, here is

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the acou blew this because they allowed The Supreme court

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to set a rule in motion that is going to

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halt them for decades to.

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Speaker 3: Come, well there's a lot of recriminations happening right now

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on the. Left and maybe you picked up on This

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charles that long article a couple of days ago in

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The New York times By Nick, confessatore who's a pretty

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left leaning but very good.

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Speaker 5: Journalist in the ordinary sense of doing real.

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Speaker 3: Reporting and what his article reveals indirectly in place it

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has been more directly in, others is that a lot

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of people thought this was a comic caze mission by THE,

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aclu and why did they bring this? Case what a

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terrible idea it was to bring this. Case we knew

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we were going to lose and set back the. Cause

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and one of the, Sentences i'll share it with. You

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one of the sentences in the article was THE lgbt

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MOVEMENT lbgtq movement drove itself toward a cliff and took

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The Democratic party with. It AND i think by the

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Way professtoi's words left out where some believe this to be, true,

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well that's a euphemism for but there's a lot of

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people who really ad right now at THE. Aclu and

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there's another great quote in, it very, short quoting a law. Professor,

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quote this case exposes a lot of ethical problems in

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the practice of. Medicine end. QUOTE a law professor with

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expertise in sex discrimination law told, me speaking on the

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condition of anonymity for fear of blowback from students and. Colleagues,

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well that's pretty good confirmation that this whole movement is

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inside a bubble that will.

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Speaker 5: Brook no dissent and no.

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Speaker 3: Criticism another surprised that a right Leaning Supreme court, says,

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no we're done doing the suspect class or protected class.

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Classifications we're done using the equal protection clause for any

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preferred liberal clause or client or victim group that we

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want to. Enshrine and, Finally thomas's concurrence just puts a

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little ball on, it, saying and by the, way we're

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not going to refer to experts who disgraced themselves in

239
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,960
the last few, years and that that's a nice also.

240
00:13:01,039 --> 00:13:03,120
Rejection The Supreme court's no longer than a nod when

241
00:13:03,159 --> 00:13:06,279
the experts say something that we know is.

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Speaker 5: Nonsense you.

243
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Speaker 2: Know the other reason this is so, Important, james is

244
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usually when these cases have brought the claimers of substantive due,

245
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process which is in my view completely nonsense reading of

246
00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:24,480
the Fourteenth amendment that has been used for seventy years

247
00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:27,039
by progressives to get the courts to strike down laws

248
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,799
that they just don't. LIKE i Know steve will agree with,

249
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,480
me but he, said you, know conservative, court conservative, opinion conservative,

250
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:43,679
Justices but really this case was. Crazy, yes it wasn't

251
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even a question of conservative or, progressive or originalist or non,

252
00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:55,240
originalist or the normal ideological cleavages that we. Observe it

253
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,960
was just. Crazy it was just about and the fact

254
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,919
that he got two. Votes i've still depressing as somebody

255
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,399
who believes that the law is a thing rather than

256
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,240
just an expression of.

257
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Speaker 1: Power, well it may have gotten two, votes because that's

258
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what right, people right thinking people would. Do the people

259
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,840
who are on the wrong side of, history who do

260
00:14:12,919 --> 00:14:15,519
not want to be, kind who have old fashioned ideas

261
00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:17,080
of sex and, agenda are the ones who are going to,

262
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say of, course this is an easy. Decision but the

263
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,799
enlightened people who see a new world out there and

264
00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:27,480
seek to burn it into, existence of, Course i'm going to, say,

265
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no a lot doesn't. Matter what matters, is as our

266
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,120
lieutenant governor here In minnesota, said is to protect trans.

267
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Kids and she had that on A t shirt which

268
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,960
was festooned with pictures of. KNIVES i never could figure

269
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,720
out what lieutenant was trying to tell. Us we should

270
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,120
actually get stabby if somebody says that a fourteen year

271
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,960
old should be chemically. Castrated but that just shows how

272
00:14:47,039 --> 00:14:53,279
old TIME i. Am it's time to turn away from

273
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this particular matter to something of international import given that you,

274
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KNOW i don't know if you guys know this, meme

275
00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:05,399
but there's something on the on the. INTERNET X it's

276
00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:11,080
a glowering figure, frowning poorly drawn in the. Phrases nothing, ever.

277
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,480
Happens and that, is whenever we get close to what

278
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,639
seems to be the definitive thing that's going to do that,

279
00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:20,399
thing it doesn't. Happen whenever we get about ready to

280
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,600
seemingly solve this long, standing festering, problem to pull out the,

281
00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:32,000
splinters set the, bone nothing ever. Happens, well something's happening,

282
00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:35,799
now and something continues to, Happen and who better to

283
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,919
spoke speak about it then old Friend Eli Lake, eli, Welcome.

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00:15:40,799 --> 00:15:41,759
Speaker 6: Hey thanks for having.

285
00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 1: Me so something's. Happening we don't know quite what it is,

286
00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:48,639
yet SO i think we're all up to speed on

287
00:15:48,679 --> 00:15:52,919
what has Happened that The iranian missile defense has BEEN

288
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,639
i wouldn't say completely, neutralized but given that THE idf

289
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,039
has control of the sky's over you're on it for protracted.

290
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,000
Period it sounds like vidrialization might be the. Word missile

291
00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:06,519
launchers galore being taken out oftentimes by, drones oftentimes by

292
00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:08,759
drones that are coming from basis Inside iran that was

293
00:16:08,759 --> 00:16:10,639
set up by the MASSADE i think in nineteen eighty

294
00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:13,240
one or. SOMETHING i, mean it's just the complexity of this,

295
00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:16,559
organization of this, attempt of this fight of this war is.

296
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,320
Astonishing so where do we. Start do we start with

297
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,360
exactly how astonishing it, was and or do we start

298
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:28,360
with what is happening now and seems likely to be happening,

299
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:31,159
Soon because we would hate at the end of all

300
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,240
this to say nothing really.

301
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 6: Happened oh something's. HAPPENED i would say this is the

302
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:47,080
fo phase of the. Faffo you could, see you. KNOW i,

303
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,720
MEAN i don't think The israelis would Leave iran without

304
00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:55,720
taking care of The fodoho facility and what they consider

305
00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:59,519
they have a. Right, remember they have a, blueprint they

306
00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:01,960
have a road map to the Entire iranian nuclear program

307
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,400
because they stole the archives in twenty eighteen, now and

308
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:13,160
they have quite obviously the regime wired for. Sound so

309
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,000
at this POINT i just think they HAVE i think

310
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,279
it's more than just air. SUPERIORITY i think they have

311
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,839
a kind OF i don't no one's omnipotent except For,

312
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,319
god but they have a kind of. Level they have

313
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,240
a degree of specific. INTELLIGENCE i think with the, regime

314
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,440
particularly the nuclear, stuff that they know where things. Are

315
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,240
AND i think the most important thing that we have

316
00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:41,519
to be watching. Now i'm not worried that they're not

317
00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:42,799
going to take care of. IT i think that we

318
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,519
have to worry about if there's a sudden regime collapse

319
00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:48,799
and there's, anarchy who's going to secure nuclear materials that

320
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:54,519
they haven't secured. Yet that's my number one. Worry and

321
00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:56,839
THEN i, MEAN i think we have to look at

322
00:17:56,839 --> 00:17:59,400
this as the beginning of the end of the regime

323
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,720
and WHAT i would like to. See and unfortunately The

324
00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:05,880
United states really blinded ourselves in the beginning of The

325
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,759
trump administration when we cut all THESE anid. PROGRAMS i

326
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:13,079
think we talked about last, time The National dawmage for.

327
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,839
DEMOCRACY i would like to see sort of there is

328
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,240
a real opportunity to have a transition to. Democracy it's

329
00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:19,640
not going to happen. Overnight it's not like the end

330
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,680
of a movie where everybody rises up because and tears

331
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,839
down the statues Of, Comani but there is an. Opportunity

332
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,440
The iranian people hate their, regime but they're battered and

333
00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:34,559
beaten because of the lethal violence that The intelligence, ministry

334
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:39,880
The basiegi militias has basically like identified anyone who was

335
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,920
the leader of the last, one The Women Life, freedom

336
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,079
and either tortured them in, jail murdered, them exiled. Them

337
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,079
but there is still a network In, iran AND i

338
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,640
just think that you have to be able to give

339
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,680
that a little bit of. Time i'm not talking about a.

340
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,480
YEAR i think they could probably get it together in

341
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:01,160
a few, months and then that's The The iranians have

342
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,240
to be the authors of their own transition to. Democracy

343
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,880
BUT i think it could be. Close it just takes

344
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,200
a little bit of. Time and that's the, alternative by the,

345
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:14,640
way to a really, unstable potential subl, war Replacing commina

346
00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:18,960
with you, know an even, worse more extreme kind of.

347
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,799
Tyrant if you want to avoid those, scenarios you have

348
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,880
to work with The iranian. People and the good news

349
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,039
is The iranian people have shown that they're, ready but

350
00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:31,799
they're not going to rise up in the middle of

351
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:32,680
a bombing.

352
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 1: Campaign we'll get to the democracy question in just a,

353
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,720
second but YET i want to start go back to

354
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:40,000
photo which you at this. Point at this, POINT i

355
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,240
expect The israelis to announce THAT aid a tunneling land

356
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,880
submarine has actually taken it.

357
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,759
Speaker 6: Out, yeah, exactly something we haven't even turned up.

358
00:19:46,839 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 1: Yet but if The United states does get, involved because

359
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,319
it takes SOME us sized planes to drop the ordinance

360
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,920
that is. Needed we hear the bunker, Busters i'm not

361
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,599
sure exactly what when they talk about moabs and some

362
00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:01,160
of the days cutters and the rest of those that

363
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,200
seem like fuel air explosives that don't really get down

364
00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:07,039
and penetrate to the scalp as you're hit and shoulder

365
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:10,519
shampoo would. Do if THE us does get, involved then

366
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,680
there seems to be preparation that suggests that evacuating some

367
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,880
exposed aircraft that air at, bases tightening of, this we've got,

368
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,039
more we've got more assets of you, know sailing into the.

369
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:26,799
Region do you think that our involvement would be limited to,

370
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:28,519
saying all, right we'll get one of the you, know

371
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,000
we'll we'll send A b. Two we'll send a, big

372
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,000
big big thing over and drop a big big.

373
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 6: Thing, well there would be ports On israeli television that

374
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,799
THE b twos have landed In.

375
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:41,839
Speaker 1: Israel, YEAH i saw, That and that doesn't make. Sense you.

376
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,559
Don't you don't have to land them. There they can

377
00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:45,759
fly a long way.

378
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 6: Unless The israelis will fly. Them and maybe it's possible

379
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,200
that is there has been a secret program for The

380
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,279
israelis to train on, them and they know how there's

381
00:20:56,319 --> 00:20:58,480
a lot of surprises and things that we don't know right,

382
00:20:58,519 --> 00:21:01,279
now so maybe it'll uh.

383
00:21:02,079 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah i'm not sure that qualifies as plausible. Deniability you,

384
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:06,319
know we gave to.

385
00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 6: The, mark BUT i mean the plausible deniability, listen in

386
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,440
The United states is going to be. Blamed the reason

387
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,519
that The iranians haven't hit An iranian An american position

388
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:19,680
at this point is BECAUSE i think they you, know

389
00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:23,160
the warnings have been pretty clear From trump and everybody

390
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,319
else that if they did, that that's you're, finished that's

391
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,480
it for. You you. Know this is by the, WAY i,

392
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,920
mean this is a this is a real opportunity to

393
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:38,519
reset what was a kind of you, know the feckless

394
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,839
non proliferation diplomacy when we're dealing with potentially other. Rogues

395
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,319
this is finally a consequence for The iranians after twenty five,

396
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,119
years and you, know it's not just going to mean

397
00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:54,480
more and more. Sanctions it's it's there there at some,

398
00:21:54,519 --> 00:21:57,000
point it's going to be a kinetic. CONSEQUENCE i think

399
00:21:57,079 --> 00:22:00,960
that's a good thing for you, know future dirtbagtators who

400
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:02,839
might want to go nuclear To.

401
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,039
Speaker 1: Mae, yeah you got twenty five on board years twenty

402
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:09,759
five years of shouting death To america before you, know, yeah,

403
00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:11,359
all DO i have to come back there and turn

404
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:11,640
the car?

405
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 3: AROUND i, mean, right, Yeah, eli It's Steve hayward actually

406
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,640
over In ireland at the, moment trying to keep up with.

407
00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:22,720
Things it does seem to me THERE'S i don't. KNOW

408
00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:25,279
i think maybe there's a possibility that there's some good

409
00:22:25,319 --> 00:22:28,359
strategy underway at the, Moment and it seems to me

410
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,039
there are three possibilities. Here one Is trump, Says, okay

411
00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:33,880
we're Gonna i'm going to wait two. Weeks that's the

412
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,160
latest News i've seen before making a.

413
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 5: Decision. Now in the, Meantime israel continues.

414
00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:42,799
Speaker 3: To Degrade, iran attack its leaders as complete command of

415
00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:45,640
the skies and leaving four to Doh Fordaw, however you

416
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,359
say it alone because they lack the, capability they lack

417
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,759
the bumper, busters or they lacked the delivery. VEHICLES i

418
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,279
kind of think Maybe israel's got some big bombs of their,

419
00:22:53,279 --> 00:22:55,119
own but they don't have the big planes to deliver.

420
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:55,319
Speaker 1: Them.

421
00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:58,319
Speaker 3: Okay so so if there were at a collapse of the,

422
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,799
regime set aside from the moment your point that there

423
00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:04,079
could be chaos and what happens to the, Material, well

424
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:04,799
maybe don't put.

425
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 6: That that's a big that's a big thing we want

426
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:06,839
to not.

427
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 5: See, yeah.

428
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 3: Exactly on the other, hand you know what we might

429
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,720
see is you don't have to take OUT fordao because

430
00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:15,640
the regime will collapse and they'll agree to allow WHO

431
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,880
i don't, know the an international body to come in

432
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,039
and take command of the site and move everything out or.

433
00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 5: Whatever that's one, possibility or.

434
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 6: Another possibility is that they allow for international inspectors to Dismantle. Foordah,

435
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,519
yeah exactly, Right, yes they end it, all and then

436
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,279
you have a, weakened humiliated. Regime that is almost even

437
00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:36,640
THOUGH i have to tell YOU i have been covering

438
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,079
The Iranian democratic opposition now for twenty five, years AND

439
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,240
i loathe this regime AND i you, KNOW i just

440
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:49,480
feel they're so close to collapse and it's and that's

441
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:52,960
a that's a good. Thing, HOWEVER i think it's almost

442
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,720
a better scenario if they agree to this kind of

443
00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:00,640
humiliating deal for, them which is no, enrichment no, program

444
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,880
you lose, it, nothing and THAT i think will leave

445
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,000
in place a kind of WEAKENED i, mean at that,

446
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,799
Point kameny's got threats on all. Sides you know What i'm,

447
00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:15,119
Saying there's gonna be. Hardliners, also keep in, mind this

448
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:21,079
is a religious fanatic regime and it is based on

449
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,640
the kind of assumption That god is with. Them well guess.

450
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,880
What it doesn't look Like allah loves you right. Now in,

451
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,079
fact looks Like he doesn't like you very much at.

452
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,279
All and THAT i think has a profound kind of

453
00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:38,759
effect among for a regime that is based on this

454
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,640
kind of almost like divine, prophecy and that that that that's.

455
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,960
All That's it's similar to you, know when The communists

456
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,039
face a setback and their whole and their whole ideology

457
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,000
is like this is the direction of history and so,

458
00:24:54,079 --> 00:24:57,359
Forth maybe it, isn't and that you, know introduces all

459
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,960
kinds of. Problems and you add to that the idea

460
00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,839
that they are really, HATED i mean hated by Most.

461
00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:08,920
Iranians and that so even if you're like A kerlonel

462
00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:13,880
in the you, know revolutionary guardcore ride control forces or

463
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,160
something like, that you probably you sew a family and

464
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:21,240
your kids probably are hearing in school about other people

465
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:24,119
who've been. Tortured that's a tough position to be. In

466
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,720
are you going to. Fire are you going to follow

467
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,279
the orders and fire on those. Demonstrators that's what we've

468
00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:32,319
got to be looking. At and, unfortunately you, know in

469
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,400
a kind of spasm of you, know reckless and heedless

470
00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:40,559
actions in the beginning of this, administration we've kind of

471
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,279
blinded ourselves in that, regard and that we cut all these.

472
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:46,039
Programs now some of them are still going. On The

473
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,079
National damage For democracy has figured out a way to

474
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,640
kind of keep some of them, going and they move

475
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,480
money here and. There but we would have been a

476
00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:57,160
much better position had The doge knife not come for those.

477
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,519
Speaker 3: Things, WELL i, MEAN i agree with you that a

478
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:04,279
potential downside of the SCENARIO i started layout is uh.

479
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,000
Is in other, words if you had a week in

480
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,279
regime that did agree to give up their, nukes they

481
00:26:09,319 --> 00:26:11,599
would still be very, dangerous and they would reconstruct and

482
00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:13,400
they would do you, know other forms.

483
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:13,599
Speaker 5: They would try to.

484
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,759
Speaker 6: RECONSTRUCT i actually think that would be a great. Scenario

485
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,759
they would be, WEAKLY i think THEY i think it

486
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:19,519
would be a great scenario because they would be weakened,

487
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,519
well AND i think it would BE i think at

488
00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:24,119
that point if that you would be buying a little

489
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,160
bit of time for The democratic opposition to get their act.

490
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,799
Speaker 3: Together BUT i think you can see why that scenario

491
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:33,519
would appeal To, trump who is, WILLING i think is

492
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:35,480
willing to do, it but really would prefer not.

493
00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 7: To.

494
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,519
Speaker 3: Uh and so that's WHY i think this sort of

495
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:40,960
two week. Play and, Meanwhile israel will do what it can,

496
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,279
do which is a. Lot AND i think you can

497
00:26:43,319 --> 00:26:45,920
see what that scenario makes some sense in the that's

498
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,319
what they're, thinking that's their. Strategy and, yeah And i'm,

499
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:51,200
well we talked about this last time you're.

500
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 5: On I'M i, MEAN i Remember.

501
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,039
Speaker 3: Penn campbell and all all the origins of ANY d

502
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,240
back in the early in mid eighties Under. Reagan I'M i,

503
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,559
think like some my, opinion and we talked about this,

504
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:03,440
before so we don't have to redo this is THAT

505
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,200
i think it has not been as good as it

506
00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:08,519
was back in those days and has decayed some for various.

507
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:09,519
Speaker 5: Reasons AND i don't.

508
00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 6: Know even if you grant all that there were programs

509
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,440
In iran for things like internet to fight internet, censorship

510
00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:20,519
to get alternative to getting on the, internet, right there

511
00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:23,720
were things In iran that were you, know, again these

512
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,880
were small bore programs that The iranians themselves took great

513
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,240
risk to sort of be part, of but that would

514
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,599
at least provide a channel to policy bakers right now

515
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,920
who could, Say, okay this is where the state of

516
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,559
The iranian opposition, is this is you, know what they

517
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:43,440
need at this. Point and to, me it's like it's.

518
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,720
Situational it's, like, yeah you're you're placing a ton of

519
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:50,960
bets all over the you, know all over a bunch

520
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,920
of authoritarian, regimes but now is the time when you

521
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,720
really need. It and my point is, that, like all, right,

522
00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,480
FINE i, mean AND i agree with, you some of

523
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,640
it got caught up with a lot of kind of

524
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,920
ngo woo woo and everything like, that but there was

525
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,680
a way to use a scalpel and spend instead of a.

526
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,559
Speaker 3: Sledgehammer, yeah all, right let me switch gears real quick

527
00:28:09,599 --> 00:28:11,240
with one last question for, you and then on a

528
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:16,799
handoff To. CHARLIE i have been encouraged by seeing some

529
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:19,720
reaction from people in the sort of THE maga, world

530
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,240
in The maga. Orbit, Sure and so you, Know Tucker

531
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,440
carlson has been so. Marginalized Even trunk talked about Nutty Tucker, Carlson,

532
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:32,839
Right kookie whatever said Cookie. Nutty you may not have seen,

533
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:35,640
it but you, Know Paul, gottfried who's an old certified

534
00:28:35,799 --> 00:28:39,559
neo con, hater, said AND i think a very important

535
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,400
article In chronicles, magazine which is very much you, Know

536
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,319
i'm maybe not, isolationists but very non interventionist and so.

537
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:50,839
Forth he, said you, know sometimes the neocons are, right

538
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:53,400
AND i, think, uh this is.

539
00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:54,279
Speaker 5: This is one of those.

540
00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:56,319
Speaker 3: Times, YEAH i thought that was QUITE i, mean you,

541
00:28:56,359 --> 00:28:59,359
know he's a controversial, guy BUT i think he's carry some.

542
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,920
Weight Brian kennedy in The Clarmont institute Of orbit has

543
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,720
said something even, stronger.

544
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,839
Speaker 5: And SO i, MEAN i think that the liberal, media.

545
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,319
Speaker 3: ESPECIALLY i, think is trying to, say, OH maga is,

546
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,640
divided and it's true That trump has his own peculiar,

547
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,519
curiosities BUT i think that's not.

548
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 5: TRUE i think, that.

549
00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:21,359
Speaker 3: You, know friends Of israel ought to be encouraged by

550
00:29:21,359 --> 00:29:23,279
the fact that so many people in THE maga base

551
00:29:24,279 --> 00:29:27,920
are declaring themselves on the side Of israel and the

552
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,240
side Of america getting involved On israel's.

553
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 6: Side i'm not. Surprised. GOOD i, mean it's, like you,

554
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,319
KNOW i, mean The iyatolas have been an enemy of

555
00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:40,799
The United states since nineteen seventy, nine Most americans have

556
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,799
some memory of them either blowing up our soldiers In

557
00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:47,720
iraq or taking our diplomat's, hostage or screaming death To

558
00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:51,880
america or doing any number of. Things and it's, like you,

559
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,480
know don't overthink, it. Guys, also IF i was In maga, world,

560
00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:01,839
OKAY i would be a little worried IF i was,

561
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,960
saying like if my allies included like you, know Ilhan,

562
00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,160
omar LIKE i don't, Know like you, know it's Like Matt,

563
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:17,519
Gates Marjorie Taylor. Green there's a theory IN nba called

564
00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:19,519
The ewing, theory which is That Patrick ewing at the

565
00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:21,960
end of his, career who was obviously a great center

566
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,599
for The New York, knicks but at the end of

567
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,519
his career was kind of a. Liability and when he

568
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,079
left The, knicks The knicks got. Better SO i look at,

569
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:34,079
it Like TUCKER. Mtg you, Know Matt, gates That's ewing

570
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:35,839
theory to, Me, LIKE i think the team just got,

571
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,920
stronger you. KNOW i, mean So i'm agreeing with. You

572
00:30:39,319 --> 00:30:40,319
i'm encouraged by all.

573
00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 7: That.

574
00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 6: Charlie, hello all, right let's talk About Yoko Ono.

575
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: No i'd have to do my, impersonation and, REALLY i

576
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,759
don't want to shatter the glass in this little Room i'm.

577
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: IN i THINK i did an impascination WHEN i represented

578
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:03,559
the descents In scramatti earlier Of. Yoko and so forget

579
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:10,920
the intramural fight WITHIN. Maga just from An american citizen,

580
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,799
perspective here's a devil's advocate position THAT i want you to.

581
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 6: Address, Yeah.

582
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: Iran is, bad but we have a terrible recent memory

583
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,400
of interfering in The Middle. East we got involved In

584
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:41,920
iraq and the aims. Metastasized you. YOURSELF i just talked

585
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,000
about maybe the end of the. Regime, yeah it didn't

586
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,400
work out so well last. Time israel has been in

587
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:56,119
charge of this process from the. Beginning why would we get?

588
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,559
Involved why does it matter To? America, yeah we Like,

589
00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:04,039
israel but they seem to be doing fine without. Us

590
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,799
what would possibly convince us at this point to get

591
00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:10,960
in Another Middle eastern? War BECAUSE i know there is

592
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,759
THE maga, argument but a lot of that's quite silly

593
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:20,400
in that it is inextricably linked To trump and people

594
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,880
maneuvering Around. Trump but a lot of people don't do.

595
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,000
That the vast majority Of americans don't do. That but

596
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:29,920
the view THAT i just adam rated is Something i've

597
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,319
heard from other people who aren't conservative or progressive or particularly.

598
00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:36,599
Political they're just baffled by what is in it For?

599
00:32:36,839 --> 00:32:37,960
America Qua.

600
00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:41,319
Speaker 6: America, Okay, well it's a good, question AND i would

601
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:42,720
answer it in a few. Ways first of, all we

602
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:46,759
already are. Involved we are sharing, intelligence Although israel has

603
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:48,960
far better intelligence than we, do but we are helping

604
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,559
in the, regard and we're also helping shoot down. Missiles

605
00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:54,559
we're Arming israel with the interceptors they, need which we're

606
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:56,759
running out. OF i would say that's a pretty big.

607
00:32:56,759 --> 00:33:02,359
Deal the second point here is that you, know regime,

608
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:06,279
change nation building wars are quagmires and they're no. Good

609
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,599
but being on the winning side of a war is.

610
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,000
Good and this doesn't look like it's going to become

611
00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:16,799
a regime change quagmire war starting primarily because the president

612
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:19,960
Is Donald. Trump so this is a situation where you

613
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,119
have a president who will be getting briefings at some.

614
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,039
Point perhaps let's just play. Out maybe it's a bad.

615
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:30,160
Scenario common a, topples there's anarchy in the, streets he's getting, briefings,

616
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,799
like oh my, god you, Know iranians are going to

617
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,200
run out of fuel in six. Days we have to do.

618
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,119
Something AND i think he's going to, say don't, care

619
00:33:36,319 --> 00:33:39,119
not my. Problem and that's just sort of built in With.

620
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:43,160
Trump he's not going to do any nation building and

621
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,079
and THAT i think you don't even, like you, know

622
00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:46,720
it's not, like, oh take my word for, it but

623
00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:48,440
LIKE i think it's. True he's just not going to do,

624
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,880
it especially now in his second term when he's really

625
00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:54,039
feeling himself and he kind of understands the powers of the.

626
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:57,279
Presidency but the second thing is, this it is in

627
00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:01,079
our interest in the following, sense The United states since

628
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:06,279
the dawn of the atomic, era really after The soviets

629
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:08,920
stole our secrets and then tested so we had two nuclear,

630
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,639
powers The United states has been Interested republican democratic presidents

631
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,199
in limiting the number of countries that have nuclear. Weapons

632
00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:22,519
If iran goes, nuclear and if for some Reason israel

633
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:26,599
can't fully take out the full program and it needs

634
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:30,920
The United states to drop these bunker buster massive ordinance penetrator,

635
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,719
bombs well if that's the, case then it's so much

636
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,559
better if you really eliminate the prospect Of iran getting

637
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:41,440
a nuke for the simple reason that it means The,

638
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,400
Turkey Saudi, Arabia egypt won't get a nuke and you

639
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,000
won't have the kind of proliferation cascade nightmare that was

640
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:53,679
very possible before under the old, world under the old

641
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,760
reality of just a week, ago When iran was right

642
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,440
up to the precipice of going nuclear because it had

643
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:06,400
built up this huge industrial nuclear industry that Sadly obama's

644
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,760
a very bad deal allowed The iranians to. Keep and

645
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,360
so now you have you can reset the. Clock and

646
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,800
it also sends this great message to all of the

647
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,519
other rogues that are watching that if you try to

648
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:22,639
go the route Of North, korea it's not gonna work

649
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,519
out for. You that's not the best. Scenario so up

650
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:30,039
UNTIL i Guess, thursday Last, thursday up until a week,

651
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:35,599
ago the logic of a tyrant, WAS i better get,

652
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,719
nukes because you know. What kadafi didn't have nukes and

653
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,960
he got in he lost his. Regime saddam didn't have

654
00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:44,519
nukes and he got. INVADED i better have nukes BECAUSE i.

655
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:47,480
Better that's my insurance. Policy that's why the way my

656
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:52,559
regime survives now you've introduced another. Scenario if you push

657
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:54,519
for nukes and you decide that you're going to be

658
00:35:54,519 --> 00:35:56,920
the leading state sponsor of terrorism and you're going to

659
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,760
fund the group that Does october, seventh well then maybe

660
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,119
the fact that you're going after your nukes it's going

661
00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:04,559
to be a reason why you your regime will not.

662
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,519
Survive and that's a good lesson for. Everybody and nobody

663
00:36:08,559 --> 00:36:11,960
wants more nuclear. Powers so that's the other thing as. Well,

664
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,239
SO i, MEAN i think you raise a really good.

665
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,840
Point why should we get involved in another war in

666
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,920
The Middle? East not as important to, us but if

667
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,239
you want to, know, like what's the main reason we

668
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,119
keep getting drawn back into The Middle, east It's. Iran

669
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:29,559
SO i JUST i just did a conversation slash debate

670
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,199
With Dan, caldwell who has recently left the, administration and

671
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,480
he made this whole point, about, well what about the,

672
00:36:35,639 --> 00:36:38,599
Stability And i'm, like the driver of instability in The

673
00:36:38,599 --> 00:36:44,400
Middle east Is. Iran if you either Defang iran and

674
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,880
get enforced that regime to rethink its, behavior or you

675
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,960
cause a change in that, regime then you're removing the

676
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,119
primary kind of driver of. Instability so that's the other, thing.

677
00:36:57,519 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 3: Well you, know it seems to IF i could jump

678
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,519
In charlie for a, minute it does seemed to me

679
00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:03,719
that if you take a, long like fifty year story arc,

680
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,000
here there's one THING i haven't heard people talk. About

681
00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:10,800
so you, know When iran fell in nineteen seventy, nine

682
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,639
it removed a strategic bastion for The west against The

683
00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:16,320
Soviet union and The Soviet union that kind. OF i,

684
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,199
mean they were quietly trying to foment revolution, there but

685
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,440
they didn't directly, intervene Unlike afghanistan a year. Later and

686
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,920
it seems to me that if that were now, reversed

687
00:37:27,199 --> 00:37:30,280
if you had An iranian regime that was at least

688
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,880
neutral or maybe even Pro western in some, ways it

689
00:37:34,039 --> 00:37:38,599
changes the equation With. China that's WHY i think this

690
00:37:38,679 --> 00:37:40,920
is beyond just The Middle, east which you laid out very.

691
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,159
Speaker 5: WELL i think this is as global geopolitical.

692
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 6: Significance oh, YEAH i, MEAN i just all of. That

693
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,719
and the thing, IS i think it was the statement

694
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,320
Of Chancellor mertz Of. Germany israel's doing that has done

695
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,000
the dirty, work the hardest, part which you, know the

696
00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:00,519
riskiest part of this is what was taking care Of

697
00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:03,239
they're taking out the air defense. Systems they're going after

698
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,800
the launchers and the ballistic. Missiles at this, POINT i would,

699
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,079
say you, KNOW i, Mean iran is in a it's

700
00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:15,320
such a precarious position for them that if The United

701
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,079
states kind of added on in the last, minute it

702
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:19,519
might it would send a great message and they would

703
00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:20,119
be on the winning.

704
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:22,559
Speaker 1: Side what About, china though we just brought that. In

705
00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:25,639
Tucker carlson told us That iran had the fearsome bricks

706
00:38:25,639 --> 00:38:29,400
at its. Back there hasn't seemed to be any general

707
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,159
mobilization there so. Far But iran sells a lot of

708
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:38,000
its petroleum products To, china and we were Just china

709
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:39,719
come out at the end of. It let's presume that

710
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,559
the Ir indian government falls and that's something inimicable To

711
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:45,440
chinese interest is, installed or at least indifferent to, them more.

712
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,239
Neutral how Does china look after all of? This china

713
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,719
looks sort of as if The west has more vitality

714
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,079
and nerve and backbone and fire than may have been.

715
00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 6: Thought, ALSO i think if You're china and you're looking

716
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,719
at it, like, well this source of. Instability by the,

717
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,599
way a Nuclear iran isn't good For china is, gone

718
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,320
and they're still gonna have, oil and whatever comes, next

719
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,000
they'll sell it to, us and it'll probably be much

720
00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:13,320
easier because it won't be under all these sanctions From china's,

721
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,440
perspective if they're just interested in the, oil which clearly they.

722
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,079
Are by the, way what's fascinating to me is the

723
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:21,119
axis of dirt, bags or this axis of Resistance North, Korea,

724
00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:25,639
Russia iran And. China they all hate each. Other they're

725
00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:28,760
just in it because they're you, know aggressive authoritarians that

726
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:34,000
kind of menace the democratic, world and that's what they

727
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,679
have in. Common so you, KNOW i would say that's

728
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,440
one of the most humiliating. Things by the, way the

729
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:44,000
most humiliating thing is that the battered remnant Of hesbelah

730
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,320
put out a statement, saying we wish you the best of,

731
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,239
luck but we can't Be now's not the right, time you,

732
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,480
Know like that's amazing to. Me hesbelah would not exist

733
00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:54,360
had it not been for The Islamic republic Of. Iran

734
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,559
they're not even getting. Involved they're totally isolated. Alone the

735
00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:03,119
only allies they see to have are the tent cos

736
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:08,519
players On Western european And american, campuses and you, KNOW

737
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:12,920
i don't Know Darryl cooper and a few of the alt,

738
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,800
right you, Know World war two revisionist style or. Historians

739
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,159
nobody else is coming to their. Aid The, russians which

740
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,079
you know we're Using iranian, drones they're not doing. Anything

741
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,519
THE Un Security council is not like stopping and having

742
00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:30,280
a serious talk about. Anything everybody just seems like they're

743
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,920
all good with, it you know WHAT i. Mean it's,

744
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,360
LIKE i, mean it's.

745
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: Amazing it is interesting that we haven't had the usual

746
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,519
shots in the television of THE un building with some

747
00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:41,159
sonorous talk about how they're meeting in an emergency session

748
00:40:41,159 --> 00:40:42,320
and declaring, THIS i.

749
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:47,519
Speaker 6: Mean people time for de. Escalation nobody's doing anything about.

750
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:48,280
It it's just.

751
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:55,119
Speaker 2: INCREDIBLE i have a, Second, Yeah Devil's advocate. Questions so

752
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,119
you said that the regime is. Awful OBVIOUSLY i, agree

753
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,679
and the people In iran don't like, it WHICH i

754
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,599
assume to be, true although it's always difficult to.

755
00:41:06,679 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 6: Tell, well CAN i stop you right, There. Charlie five

756
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,960
times since twenty seventeen we have seen national, uprisings So

757
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:18,719
i'm basing it on that pattern every few, years and

758
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,239
by the way against horrific. REPRESSION i mean some of

759
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,280
the things that were done against The. Maskima the latest

760
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,119
one called the Women Life freedom after this Poor kurdish

761
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:32,960
woman was, murdered you, know for not wearing her. Hijab,

762
00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:38,639
correctly there were girls' schools In iran that were under

763
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,559
poison gas attack literally in the, school and they came.

764
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:45,280
Home they didn't, die but they were very. Sick and

765
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,440
that was what they, well that's what this regime was

766
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,360
willing to do to stop those. Demonstrations and yet my

767
00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:53,920
view is that as bad as it, is and they you,

768
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,960
know they the torture and everything, else nonetheless they managed

769
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,719
to get these demonstrations, going you, know every couple of. Years,

770
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,039
so but that's WHAT i. Say they hate.

771
00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: THAT i, Agree i'm with you on, this but The

772
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,039
Devil's advocate position is, yes and despite all of those,

773
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,000
uprisings they're still.

774
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: There.

775
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:19,639
Speaker 2: Yeah so the QUESTION i have is The israelis have

776
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,760
taken out a good number of the leaders Of, iran

777
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,039
AND i think the rumor That kamone is dead is probably,

778
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:30,840
false but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that

779
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,760
that would. Happen, yeah why are we so sure that

780
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:41,280
this would lead to a Better. Iran isn't there a

781
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,639
fear that it would lead to a more Extreme? Iran

782
00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:45,960
those positions get filled with people who are even more

783
00:42:46,039 --> 00:42:47,559
crazy than the ones who are in.

784
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:50,679
Speaker 6: Them, now, well, okay so let me address it in two.

785
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,800
Parts there is no guarantee you roll the iron dice of.

786
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,760
War there's no guarantee it, could of course go very.

787
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:01,280
BADLY i would argue that the risks of Allowing iran

788
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,800
to inch ever closer to a nuke were less tolerable

789
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:09,519
than the risks involved in this military. Action and THAT'S

790
00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:12,159
i think that's the honest, position because we have to be.

791
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,679
Realistic we can't, say, oh, no, no, no, no it'll be. Great,

792
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,599
okay SO i agree with, You, yes there there it

793
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:20,760
could in some. WAYS i suppose it could get. Worse

794
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:23,400
but you have to look at this, like AS i

795
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,840
sort of, said this factor of, like this is a

796
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,880
regime that's built on the idea that they're all of

797
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,880
their momentum is based on the fact that they're favored By. Allah,

798
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,199
yeah and when you know, so, yeah it's possible that

799
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,039
there's going to be more. Fanatics and they say this

800
00:43:38,119 --> 00:43:41,639
is just another even greater, test but most rational people

801
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:45,159
will look at things and, saying you, know maybe maybe

802
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:47,719
we got this one. Wrong and then you add to,

803
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,079
that which Is i'm saying that there we can't know,

804
00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:53,639
this but the dynamic even like all the regime elites

805
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:56,719
still live In, iran and all of the regime elites

806
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,639
are going to be touched by the enmity that Most

807
00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:04,000
iranians feel for the. Regime and then you add to

808
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,599
this this massive. Humiliation and it's a regime that is

809
00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:09,880
based on the sense of like that they're, omnipotent that they're,

810
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,920
invincible That god is behind, them that has been, that

811
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,199
that is that that myth has been. Punctured so, YEAH

812
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,119
i don't think that's going to be very good in

813
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,960
terms of the. Stability AND i don't see how that's

814
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,920
going to favor someone who's even more. Extreme of course it's,

815
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,400
possible BUT i don't see how that extremist is going

816
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,599
to be able to sort of have it is going

817
00:44:29,679 --> 00:44:31,800
to be able to get themselves out of the legitimation

818
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,320
crisis that they have right now already that was.

819
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: Before only time will, tell he, said, Sonorously BUT eli

820
00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:39,639
will leave.

821
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:42,199
Speaker 6: You before we. Go CAN i make a, Request.

822
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:43,519
Speaker 1: WELL i was going to make a request of you,

823
00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:46,719
first you go, first, ENOUGH i will usually you're wearing

824
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,519
a BAND t. Shirt you're not wearing a band t.

825
00:44:48,639 --> 00:44:52,360
Shirt why have you foresworn rock? Music force it for?

826
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 6: This, no, no, NO i Just i'm going on other

827
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,840
shows AND's SO i decided to classify with a little

828
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,400
little cost polo here for.

829
00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:03,679
Speaker 1: You what is your? Request it can be absolutely anything of,

830
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,559
us unless, you of course you.

831
00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:09,519
Speaker 6: Wont. Okay so my Podcast Breaking, history we've been doing

832
00:45:09,519 --> 00:45:11,480
some going to, stuff but my latest one is On WILLIAM.

833
00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:14,920
F buckley AND i do THESE ai, songs and So

834
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:19,719
i've Given i've Given perry a link to the one On,

835
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,159
buckley WHICH i think you guys are. Like it's a

836
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:26,159
little outwalk country called a Thwart history yelling.

837
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,679
Speaker 1: Stock well we when we go, back we will we

838
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,480
will put, like well we will not right?

839
00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:33,639
Speaker 6: Now, okay, okay fair, enough fair.

840
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,599
Speaker 1: Enough the guy who shows up at the wedding.

841
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,039
Speaker 6: Dance started at the thirty two. Mark there's a there's

842
00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:41,800
a there's an there's a there's a there's an instrumental,

843
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,039
introduction and then you get into the lyrics AND i

844
00:45:45,079 --> 00:45:48,239
THINK i think i've kind of Captured buckley if he

845
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,480
was you, know like Uh Waylon jennings in like nineteen seventy. One,

846
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:53,960
well it will.

847
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,119
Speaker 1: Be it will be our outro. Music we promise you. That,

848
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,960
okay you'll love, it and we we we thank you

849
00:46:01,039 --> 00:46:06,119
for Reviving WILLIAM. F buckley In Humane CLONE ai.

850
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 6: Form but the podcast is, ITSELF i, mean like you,

851
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,039
know it's it's a tribute To, buckley although you, KNOW

852
00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:14,079
i deal with some of the some of the flaws as,

853
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:17,159
well BUT i think overall you can Tell i'm a.

854
00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: Fan, okay we'll hop On. Vo three and start to

855
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,719
do the video for that so we can actually HAVE

856
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,880
wfb you, know getting down with his own too and

857
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,239
putting on a ten gallon hat and Strong. Eli thank

858
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,599
you so. Much it's been as. Usual it was a,

859
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,519
pleasure and we hope to talk to you soon when

860
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:39,480
something else. Happens because the phase of nothing well having.

861
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 6: And, STEVE i found out you And Michael anton our,

862
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:43,000
pals which is.

863
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 3: Cool oh, yeah, yeah oh, yeah you're wrote terrific article about,

864
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,079
him by the, Way yes that was, important, RIGHT i forgot, right?

865
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 5: Thanks, yeah all, right.

866
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:54,559
Speaker 1: All, right now we've backscratched enough, happily so and we see,

867
00:46:54,599 --> 00:46:58,000
you and we advise everybody to go read everything and

868
00:46:58,079 --> 00:46:59,840
listen to it that he. Does we'll have a links

869
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,280
in the podcast in the page At. Ricochet have a great.

870
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,760
Day and now before we, leave one more, topic we've

871
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,960
n screed. Ready we've Got. Israel the other thing that

872
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,559
seems to be going on nowadays is a very peculiar

873
00:47:10,599 --> 00:47:15,199
contest In New York city where a gentleman who came

874
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,880
to buy attention first when he was doing these wonderful

875
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,480
little fist pumping videos for rent control because that works

876
00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:27,760
just so, great is a mayoral. Candidate and they're going

877
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,039
to have to, decide aren't, they between the wise stewardship

878
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:37,480
of A, cuomo moderate and steady and this fellow who wants,

879
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:39,440
to you, know globalize the. Indefada but of course the

880
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,199
indofad is just one of those. Words it doesn't mean

881
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:42,920
what you says it, does and you know it means

882
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,000
kind of basically struggle or do the right thing or

883
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,440
the rest of. IT i expect that there will be

884
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,440
a lot of people who show their good progressive bona

885
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,440
fides by voting for him because he says all the right,

886
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,920
things and they will be insulated utterly and completely from

887
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,800
the consequences of his. Policies BUT i Think cuomo is

888
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,280
going to pull this. Out AND i know nothing About

889
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,679
New york, politics but it would seem to me that

890
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:03,840
a lot of people are going to look at this

891
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,440
guy and, say M. No twenty, twenty we would have

892
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,840
been all over. That but five years have passed and

893
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:14,519
things have, changed or have they have?

894
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:20,559
Speaker 2: They Steve, well, YEAH i Mean i'm having it.

895
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 5: Right, Well i'm having flashbacks here to thirty years. AGO i,

896
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:24,480
mean here's the.

897
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,559
Speaker 3: Theme the blue cities and blue states are so far

898
00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:28,679
gone that there's the.

899
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 5: One you're saying That Andrew cuomo is your quote unquote moderate.

900
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,639
Hope they literally no. Hope it's just going to get.

901
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: Worse cuoma might, win BUT i think the future Of

902
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,960
New york is clearly sliding to the. LEFT i said

903
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,800
it having. Flashbacks you go back thirty years To San.

904
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,199
Francisco they had an incumbent mayor by the name Of Frank,

905
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,480
jordan who's everyone's. Forgotten he'd been a former police, chief

906
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:52,000
so he sounded kind of Like juliani a little, bit

907
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,480
AND i don't remember now how he ran a, city

908
00:48:54,519 --> 00:48:57,719
but certainly better than it is, now and he was

909
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:02,559
challenged for in reelection By Willy, brown the former speaker

910
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,519
by the, way one of the smartest politicians In, america

911
00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:07,599
but very left and you, know very much a Machine,

912
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:11,239
democrat but a realistic. LEFTY i, mean even he has said,

913
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,800
that starting ten years, ago The progressives are going way

914
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,880
too far In San francisco and. Elsewhere BUT i will

915
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,639
tell people back east that the election contest Featured Frank

916
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,840
jordan stripping naked in the shower with two hosts of

917
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,920
a morning gay radio, Show it's try and curry with

918
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,559
the gay, vote which is obviously important In San. Francisco

919
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,960
AND i tell, people, oh and he was the conservative, candidate,

920
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,599
right And Willy brown was the other. Candidate and at

921
00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:41,199
the same, Time Jerry brown was the mayor Of. Oakland

922
00:49:41,559 --> 00:49:43,519
so The Bay area had a complete brown, out AS

923
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:45,239
i like to put, it Because Willy brown, won of,

924
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,400
course and, BOY i would Take Willy brown back in

925
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,559
a second In San francisco over the mayors we've had,

926
00:49:51,639 --> 00:49:54,800
lately or even the governor for that, matter which you,

927
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,519
KNOW i grew up with Despising Willy. Brown he was

928
00:49:57,559 --> 00:49:59,440
the epitome of all, evil and now he looks like

929
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:03,000
the mature elder statesman of The Democratic party In. California

930
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,360
and so here we are In New york and we

931
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,480
have this crazy left winger and we're, saying, oh, please,

932
00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:12,400
Please Andrew, cuomo you've got to beat this. Guy now

933
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,599
there is the element of the rank choice, voting which

934
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:16,960
is one of the worst ideas, ever and who knows

935
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,679
how that might screw things up. Here even The New

936
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,519
York times finds, this Ma'am donnie that's his, name to

937
00:50:23,559 --> 00:50:27,719
be too far beyond the. Pale SO i don't. Know

938
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,320
part of me wants to See mount Dommy, wynn just

939
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,440
because you, know they richly deserve the pain and. Punishment

940
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,719
what's that old line Of mankans democracy is the theory

941
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,719
that the common people know what they want and deserve

942
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,440
to get it good and. Hard they're going to get

943
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,400
it good and hard no matter who, wins Because cuomo is,

944
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,000
experienced but he'll still be pretty.

945
00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: Bad, yes but those of us who Love New york

946
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,960
and want the city to prosper don't want to wish.

947
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:54,760
ILL i, mean in part, yes because there's always that

948
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,960
idea that we get, well, well they voted for the

949
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,519
worst possible personnel who will put these awful policies into,

950
00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:03,320
place then they'll realize the error of their. Ways but

951
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,639
the error of their ways never, come never consists of

952
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,639
a massive overhaul and re examination of their ideological. Precepts

953
00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:11,639
it's always, just, well we have to find somebody who's

954
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,280
better at doing these ruinous. Things so that's where you're

955
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,599
that's where your sympathy tends to. End it's not rent

956
00:51:17,599 --> 00:51:20,159
control of the. Problem we have to nationalize property and

957
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:23,320
execute the. Billionaires that'll be the thing that we. DO i, mean, so,

958
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:26,760
yeah they deserve to live with with their. Consequences but,

959
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,360
unfortunately the people who on whom this falls are the

960
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,199
people generally who can least afford it and whose lives

961
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,719
will not be made better for. It charles And, florida

962
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,320
this almost must seem like laughter fodder to, you living

963
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,079
in that, wild, open, mad crazy libertarian state that you.

964
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,519
Do but, you when it comes to the fate of

965
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:49,039
The Blue cities Of, america do you think that it's

966
00:51:49,159 --> 00:51:51,880
just going to be an unending grinding cycle of one

967
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,239
progressive after the, other trying things that don't, work placating

968
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,360
the people who contribute, little and just driving the sensible

969
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:03,239
folk out of town or or is there anything that

970
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,360
we can point to that says, no it's not going

971
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,280
to be endlessly. Polarized we will bring back our cities

972
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,639
it is possible to.

973
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 2: Do With juliani, here, WELL i should stop by SAYING

974
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,039
i do. Care i'm glad THAT i don't have to

975
00:52:16,039 --> 00:52:18,679
live in those. PLACES i like the federal, system BUT

976
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,119
i like all Of. AMERICA i Love. CALIFORNIA i Think

977
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:24,440
california's the most beautiful. STATE i wish it would properly.

978
00:52:24,519 --> 00:52:27,800
Run AND i Love New. York my wife's From New.

979
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,519
YORK i lived In New york for. Years it's a great.

980
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:36,280
Place WHAT i find depressing about, This james AND i

981
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:42,239
have made this speech many times on various, podcasts is

982
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:45,239
that this is a case in which the people who

983
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,599
are making bad decisions have in front of them all

984
00:52:48,639 --> 00:52:51,679
the evidence they need to prevent them from making the bad.

985
00:52:51,679 --> 00:52:55,840
DECISIONS i am actually quite tolerant of people making bad

986
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,199
decisions when they don't have that information or when something

987
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,480
new is happening in the. World we have different ways

988
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,760
of processing information depending on our ideological. Assumptions conservatives are

989
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,599
more likely to, say, OH i don't make that. Change

990
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,639
but in this. Case we've been through this, before and

991
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,800
yet it seems that nothing is now sufficient to push

992
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:22,159
the voters Of New, york but Also, chicago which is,

993
00:53:22,199 --> 00:53:26,880
worse And california to fix. It and that's the bit

994
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,679
THAT i think is, alarming because to, me many of

995
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,960
the questions that are up for debate In New york

996
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:42,480
at the moment are pre political crime. Budgets it's not

997
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:44,880
that we don't have different views on, them and they're legitimate.

998
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,119
Views it's that they're the sort of questions that, historically

999
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:55,000
whatever other disputes we were, having voters would, say fix,

1000
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:58,000
that or you don't get to make the secondary. Case

1001
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:00,800
and that's what Put juliani, in and that's what Put boomberg.

1002
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,440
In three times In New york was voted, saying, LOOK

1003
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,639
i don't Like republicans OR i don't like independence on,

1004
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:13,559
this this and, this but he does make sure that

1005
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,000
the streets are. Safe and you saw it In california

1006
00:54:17,039 --> 00:54:21,920
as well When reagan was. Elected AND i just wonder

1007
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,679
watching the example Of, chicago where they just keep voting

1008
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,039
for the same lunacy over and over, again whether that's true,

1009
00:54:29,079 --> 00:54:32,360
anymore and if it isn't, TRUE i don't really not

1010
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:34,480
to make of it as somebody who thinks that people

1011
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,519
are fundamentally, rational BECAUSE.

1012
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 6: I know it's.

1013
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: Not it's. Not it's like the Groundhoud day movie where

1014
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,599
every day you wake up and tear down chesters And.

1015
00:54:42,639 --> 00:54:47,599
SVINCE i share the confusion with. You but LIKE i,

1016
00:54:47,639 --> 00:54:52,320
say people are so hesitant to vote for the Awful

1017
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,760
party because the Awful party is full of, racists, transphobes

1018
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,000
and other people who wish ill on everybody else and

1019
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:02,000
want to just simply sit, in you, know the backwoods,

1020
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,320
somewhere pick on a banjo and maybe listen to AN

1021
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,000
ai generated song About william Ath. Buckley that was going

1022
00:55:09,039 --> 00:55:11,320
to be my outro there and my queue into. It,

1023
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,800
steven if you'd been the sort of segue observer That

1024
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,320
rob used to. Be But i'll allow this before we,

1025
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:19,760
go for you to make the point that you want to.

1026
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 3: Make, well, sorry BUT i, MEAN i think you all

1027
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,039
have seen The some of the graphics are really. Telling

1028
00:55:26,119 --> 00:55:28,320
but some of the places Where trump made the largest

1029
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,199
games were in the blue, cities in The chicago, Area New,

1030
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:37,280
York Los, Angeles. California. Uh and what it suggests to

1031
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,480
me is that there is a lot there are a

1032
00:55:39,519 --> 00:55:41,760
lot of people out there who are disgusted with things

1033
00:55:42,039 --> 00:55:45,480
who aren't. Conservative maybe they're, not they're probably in many

1034
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:49,800
cases Traditional. Democrats they're often, Minorities, hispanics. Black and the

1035
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:53,280
point is is that there IS i, think sentiment for something,

1036
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,840
different and, unfortunately you, know conservatives Or republican candidates on

1037
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,079
the urban level are just. Absent there's one thing to

1038
00:56:01,159 --> 00:56:04,159
Have trump as an alternative on the national or bad they're, bad,

1039
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,880
right or there's that bad candidates and the collapse of

1040
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,760
competition at the urban level By republicans IS i, think

1041
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,639
really showing itself here because you don't see many.

1042
00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: ALTERNATIVES a lot of them are bad because a lot

1043
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,159
of people go into politics for self aggrandizement and self.

1044
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,119
Enrichment and the way you do that is to attach

1045
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:25,280
yourself to whatever institutional Ramorra Tammany hall like has attached

1046
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,840
itself to your. City so there's, that, Right.

1047
00:56:28,119 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 2: But also you've got to blame the voters in a.

1048
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:36,320
Democracy AND i Had Lannie chan on my podcast a

1049
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,639
couple of years, ago and he told me about the

1050
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:44,840
time he ran for controller In. California people said that

1051
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:51,480
he would go into these public meetings debates with his,

1052
00:56:51,559 --> 00:56:55,519
opponent and he would, Say california has big problems with

1053
00:56:55,559 --> 00:56:57,480
its budget in the way that it allocates, money and

1054
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,639
if you look at the medicaid budget relative to, this

1055
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,800
and i'll tax revenues and, movement and people would, say,

1056
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,159
yeah that's a great. Point i'm really worried about. This

1057
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,480
and then his opponent would come in and say. Abortion

1058
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,119
and there's opponent won by ten, points AND i remember

1059
00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:20,280
thinking that's the public's, fault like that they literally had

1060
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,000
the choice. Right controller is not. GOVERNOR i. UNDERSTAND i

1061
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,800
don't think it's rational in the grand scheme of, things

1062
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,599
given where these states are. Going BUT i totally understand

1063
00:57:30,639 --> 00:57:34,119
somebody who has absolutely different politics THAN i do who, says,

1064
00:57:34,159 --> 00:57:38,360
LOOK i just don't Like republicans and their, policies and,

1065
00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:41,800
yeah the state's a, mess But i'm very worried that

1066
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,880
they will pass pro life laws or loosen the gun,

1067
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,239
restrictions or do school tour whatever it is that they care,

1068
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,599
about and So i'm just willing to suck it. Up

1069
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,960
but when you're talking about the role of, controller a

1070
00:57:56,079 --> 00:57:59,239
role that has literally nothing to do with abortion or

1071
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,800
gun control or gay, marriage is actually just the thing

1072
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,679
that people say they're worried about and you have an

1073
00:58:05,719 --> 00:58:08,519
opportunity to pick somebody who's more sensible on, it and you.

1074
00:58:08,599 --> 00:58:11,360
Don't that's the point of WHICH i just think you

1075
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,480
have to take responsibility for, it. Right you can't say

1076
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,599
all while it's because of the two party, system or you, Know.

1077
00:58:17,559 --> 00:58:22,119
Speaker 1: I'm abortion for some Small american flags for others and always,

1078
00:58:22,159 --> 00:58:26,079
twirling twirling into the. Future King codos twenty. Six, gentlemen

1079
00:58:26,119 --> 00:58:28,360
there's been a, pleasure and we'll convene again next week

1080
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,360
when something will have, happened or not because there's two

1081
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,199
weeks to, talk or, yes because something. Happened in any,

1082
00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:35,519
case we want everybody to go to ricochet dot com sign,

1083
00:58:35,639 --> 00:58:37,639
up because, yeah, yeah, yeah you can read the front,

1084
00:58:37,679 --> 00:58:39,760
page but the member feed is where all of the

1085
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,079
interesting conversations begin and where you will meet a, sane generally,

1086
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,960
civil mostly center right pretty much conversation and cohort the

1087
00:58:48,119 --> 00:58:49,719
links of what you've been looking for on the internet

1088
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,239
since you plug that thing. In I'm James lilax And Stephen.

1089
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,320
Heyward thank, you, GENERALS. C. W, cook thank you as,

1090
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,280
well and thank everybody for, listening and we'll see you

1091
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,199
all in the comments At ricochet for the point zero b.

1092
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,679
Speaker 2: By get your hand out my.

1093
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 7: Pocket the money is better spend on. Groceries the dodger

1094
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:17,960
ben off Rend i'd like to help my. Neighbor for

1095
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:21,880
those with less than, Me i'll set aside some.

1096
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:27,519
Speaker 2: Extra and call a charity that is not the comass.

1097
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:33,119
Speaker 7: Man spread the wealth grown to be ways, tact spend

1098
00:59:33,199 --> 00:59:34,280
our money that the.

1099
00:59:34,559 --> 00:59:38,039
Speaker 1: FOUND i mean it's on.

1100
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,159
Speaker 7: Mark oh your.

1101
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 3: Handle then.

1102
00:59:43,239 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 7: Universities all, water wind and sin govern in expand from

1103
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:51,079
bottle to the.

1104
00:59:51,199 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: Top it's this history we standing.

1105
00:59:55,519 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 7: There you, install keep comings out of, college regard To

1106
01:00:01,519 --> 01:00:06,599
god and. Listen Nick nixon did his. Homework dis asshoed.

1107
01:00:06,679 --> 01:00:12,280
Out the humans are, corrupt the culture spelled lock.

1108
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:16,719
Speaker 2: Crash you make a ganana's. Buck who's have of?

1109
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:17,199
Speaker 7: Be in?

1110
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,159
Speaker 1: Text what happened to the?

1111
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,119
Speaker 7: Church what happened to our school?

1112
01:00:25,239 --> 01:00:25,639
Speaker 2: Teaching?

1113
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 7: Kids had our guard and graduated foods cover and expand

1114
01:00:32,519 --> 01:00:38,320
From bob to the. Dark, yes this is Tore we standing.

1115
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:42,760
There he that, start he coming is on the. March

1116
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:50,199
YE i am for. Them universities a wallow in incign

1117
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:56,199
covering and expand From bob to job bad, art this

1118
01:00:56,519 --> 01:00:59,840
history stand here yelling set up