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Every 47 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:30.039 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 48 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:34.360 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 49 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:37.599 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 50 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:53.919 Good Evening, November eighteenth, nineteen seventy eight was a tragically 51 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:58.080 unprecedented day in US history that will forever be woven 52 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:01.520 into the fabric of this country. It is the day 53 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:05.199 that leader of People's Temple, James Warren Jones, ordered the 54 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:09.120 assassination of US Congressman Leo J. Ryan and others at 55 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.560 the Port Katuma airstrip in South America, then led his 56 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:16.639 congregation on what Guyana's police chief Skip Roberts testified was 57 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:21.080 a mass suicide. Decades later, however, the depth of this 58 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.439 story is still unknown, and many scholars and former members 59 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:28.280 who have continued their exploration of the incident have found 60 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:30.280 that there is still plenty of evidence as well as 61 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:34.360 plenty of sinister connections that contradict the official version of 62 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:38.000 this story. Jonestown, Don't Drink the kool Aid is the 63 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:41.280 chronological story of the rise and fall of People's Temple 64 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.000 and its leader Jim Jones, from his early years in 65 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.479 Indianapolis and California to the tragic ending in the jungle 66 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.800 of South America that claimed the lives of nine hundred 67 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:58.439 and eighteen Americans. Jonestown Don't Drink the kool Aid comprehensibly 68 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.120 details the many links that Jones than his compound had 69 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:05.360 with the CIA and their m culture experiments, through a 70 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:10.960 comprehensive analysis of Jones' life, People's Temple, and the investigation 71 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.159 in the aftermath of the mass murder suicides. This book 72 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:17.839 is designed to be the quintessential marking piece that will 73 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.319 reintroduce this story to society and serve as a reminder 74 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:23.959 of the infamous matter that hung in the pavilion in Jonestown. 75 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:27.160 Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. 76 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:32.160 The book that we're featuring this evening is Jonestown Don't 77 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:35.160 Drink the kool Aid, The complete story behind the mysterious 78 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.040 Jim Jones and his exodus to Guienna, with my special 79 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.720 guest journalist and author Will Survive. Welcome to the program, 80 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.399 and thank you for greeting this interview Will Survive. 81 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:49.439 Hi, Dad, thank you so much for having me. I 82 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:51.720 appreciate it look forward to this absolute. 83 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.720 This is a great show. I love your show, Thank 84 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:57.560 you very much. This is one of the more incredible 85 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:01.959 moments in American and world history. And if people thought 86 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.959 they knew everything about this, this is the book that 87 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:09.079 would tell them otherwise. So let's again one of my questions. 88 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:11.279 It seems to be important. That's why I always ask it, 89 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:17.079 without giving anything away, how did you come to write 90 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.959 this book? Jonestown, don't drink the kool aid? 91 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:27.959 Well, you know, I first started researching the contents and 92 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:32.199 the story, you know, many years ago, probably maybe fifteen 93 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.160 years ago, before I was a writer. You know. Obviously 94 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:39.120 I was, you know, well aware of the of the story, 95 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:41.920 and when I was in school, I did a book 96 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:46.199 report on it, and I just found that the official 97 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.519 version of the story was left a lot to be desired. 98 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:54.240 I did not, you know, I always feel that when 99 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.759 you look at something and there are questions, especially you know, 100 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:03.399 when it comes to news sources or government agencies that 101 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.480 you know you are, the mind suddenly tries to or 102 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:14.079 subconsciously tries to fill those gaps. And I came across 103 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:19.480 a few different writings that kind of opened my eyes 104 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:25.240 a little bit from mister Hogan and John Judge where 105 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:31.800 they imposed the question and actually, you know, put forth 106 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:36.920 some evidence that there might be some CIA connections involved. 107 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:42.360 So I decided to look a little further into the story. 108 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.720 And when I began writing, you know, I got my 109 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.639 bachelor's degree in criminal justice with a concentration of forensic science, 110 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:55.079 and I began writing these types of stories. This was 111 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:59.680 ideally one of the stories that I wanted to get 112 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:03.199 into a little more. So you know, from there it 113 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:08.480 just kind of steamrolled and snowballed into me writing the story. 114 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.279 It wasn't a planned thing from the beginning. 115 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.879 Great, Now, let's go back to the beginnings of this 116 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:21.759 incredible story of this man, James Warren Jones, and go 117 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:25.079 back to his parents, Linetta and James Jones. You take 118 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:30.319 us right back to this before his birth, before James 119 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:33.600 Warren Jones was born, which was May nineteen thirty one. 120 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:37.600 But take us back to his early life and maybe 121 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.399 even before Creed, Indiana. So take us back before they 122 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.720 settled in this area, and a little bit about Lynetta 123 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:49.800 and James Jones, and James Jones in his early life. 124 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:53.839 Well, his parents came from the right out of the 125 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:59.240 Great depression and had you know, little Jimmy as I 126 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:02.279 call him, in the beginning. They had him, you know, 127 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.439 right out of that period. So obviously, you know, you 128 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.319 you can kind of just tell right from there, you know, 129 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:13.120 what type of people they were. They were survivors. They 130 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.199 you know, they were struggling, just like you know everyone 131 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:20.800 else in America, especially in the dust Bowl area. And 132 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:26.959 you know they were scrappers. And James uh sor you know, 133 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:31.279 had some problems and some injuries from you know being 134 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.399 the military, uh and and and on his uh and 135 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:40.039 on his job. So Lynetta really became the breadwinner in 136 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:43.120 the family. And you know, back in those days that 137 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:47.320 was the novelty because women were not uh the bread winners, 138 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:51.320 you know, so much. So she became she was very, 139 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:56.320 very tough. She always taught Jimmy to to be try 140 00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:00.879 to be self sufficient, self reliant, and and you know 141 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.399 it was it was, I believe, out of that where 142 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:06.360 he you know, became this person where he took on 143 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:11.320 this persona of of being a leader. And she actually 144 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:14.279 pushed him to become a leader instead of a follower. 145 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:19.000 And and and you know, in essence run of businesses 146 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:23.279 on his own instead of working for people, and you know, 147 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:24.519 they just were they were. 148 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:27.399 Go ahead. 149 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.919 Sorry, no, no, I'd say that. I mean, really, that's 150 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.399 that's that's the essence of of I think, you know 151 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:36.919 what what he was his childhood was about. As far 152 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:40.320 as from his parents' perspective. 153 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:46.200 It's interesting that you write that at that time, and 154 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.000 again they were considered an odd family. The father did 155 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.000 a little bit of work, but he'd been, like you said, 156 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.840 injured in the War of Mustard Gas, so he did 157 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:59.519 a little bit of work. She really did taking bringing 158 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:01.720 all the money into the household, but they also had 159 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.759 a They didn't sleep together, the parents. And one I 160 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.080 thought was most interesting too, is that they didn't go 161 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:08.759 to church. They didn't attend church. 162 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:13.080 Right, So yeah, and that's another thing from from back 163 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.440 then that was really odd because you know, most people 164 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:19.960 were very religious. You know, it's I mean, it's hard, 165 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:23.320 I guess for a young person to understand that, but 166 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:27.600 I mean in America in those days, you know, religion 167 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:31.519 was pervasive and most if you were not into religion, 168 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.480 you didn't go to church or you didn't practice in 169 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.639 some way, you really were an outcast in the community. 170 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:38.799 In any community you were in. 171 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:43.720 Now you talk about in the book You Chronicle that 172 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:47.039 at four years old he meets a pretty important figure 173 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:51.399 and it's an important story to again, I guess, explain 174 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:57.240 the early genesis or the early metamorphosis of James Jones. 175 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.000 So at four years old, you say, meets his friend 176 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:04.120 Donald Friedman, and he also meets this missus Myrtle Kennedy 177 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:08.120 and she becomes a spiritual advisor. So tell us at 178 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:11.799 four years old, again, it's to explain the time, how 179 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.360 this woman, what her influence is really on James Jones, 180 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.799 and what does his mother have to say. So tell 181 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.279 us a little bit about this missus Myrtle Kennedy, the 182 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:23.399 spiritual advisor. 183 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:27.000 Well, missus Kennedy would uh you know, would would kind 184 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.399 of took on the role of looking after him because 185 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:34.919 you know, James, Jimmy's father was was I mean really 186 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.960 just kind of indifferent, uh, you know, sick and at 187 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.399 the VA hospital a lot or at the V a 188 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:44.159 spot where you know they hung out and his mother 189 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.000 was working. So Jimmy was often seen running around the 190 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:52.159 neighborhood by himself, getting you know, possibly into trouble, almost 191 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.679 getting hit by a train, and there was a lot 192 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:57.720 of instances where you know, she would see him, and 193 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:00.840 she felt that she would take him him under her wing, 194 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:03.360 so she did so. And she happened to be a 195 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:08.080 very religious person, so she also started taking him to church. 196 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:12.440 And I you know, from everything I've read, Lynetta was not, 197 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:16.679 you know, particularly happy about it, but she really, i 198 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:19.679 mean had no choice today. They were not good friends, 199 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:23.480 her and Missus Kennedy, but I'm sure for her son's sake, 200 00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:27.159 she appreciated the fact that somebody was, you know, looking 201 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:31.759 after him. And now I believe that she was a 202 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:34.440 good woman and Lynetta saw that, so she she was 203 00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:35.679 happy about that at least. 204 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.679 And it's interesting too that you talk about the kind 205 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:43.440 of church that he was first exposed to as well, 206 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:48.080 which is a Pentecostal church, and you talk about the 207 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:51.960 word cultish. Even at that time they were considered a 208 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.799 very outside the norm religion as well, weren't they. And 209 00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:57.759 some of the things that he got to see at 210 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:00.159 an early age out of the organ. 211 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.879 Absolutely absolutely when Missus Kennedy wasn't actually happy about that, 212 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.320 after a few years, he you know, she was actually 213 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:12.320 taking him to uh, you know, Protestant and and and 214 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:14.720 and he would go to different churches on his own. 215 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.480 He came across that Pentecostal church, which was again on 216 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:21.879 the outskirts quote unquote of uh you know, of the area, 217 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.960 and really they were looked on as the Holy Rollers, 218 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:27.600 you know, these people who kind of played fast and 219 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:30.720 loose with the religion. You know, that was something he 220 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:34.519 found on his own. And that was the moment that 221 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:38.879 he himself said that you know, it was it was 222 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:43.039 there that he felt the most at home. Uh, And 223 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:47.759 he said that's where he first experienced real love as 224 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:50.320 he as he put it, or you know, his first 225 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:54.360 experiences with with love and acceptance. He never felt accepted 226 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:59.799 before he stepped into this into this world of kind Acostal. 227 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:06.679 Of interesting too, you have the the female minister at 228 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:11.399 this church really takes him under a wing almost immediately 229 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:17.000 and starts preparing him, recognizing she said, basically his verbal 230 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.320 maturity and his and his mental superiority. You know that 231 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:23.240 he was a smart kid. And so she started working 232 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.000 with him. And that was something that Lynette wasn't his 233 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:27.120 mother wasn't too happy with. 234 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.600 Right. Well, even before he he uh you know, had 235 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:36.279 this experience, had met these Pentecostal people. He he was 236 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.279 doing his old preaching in in uh you know, at 237 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.320 his house. He would invite uh, you know, his friends over, 238 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.840 and you know he I guess he started to cultivate 239 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:52.320 that H skill with with I'm sure an intrinsic type 240 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.279 of charisma that he already you know, possessed. I believe 241 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.919 that day that you know, female minister she saw that. 242 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:03.039 And I mean, I'm sure you can imagine, you know, 243 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.279 this this young kid walking in there by himself, which 244 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.440 I would assume would be rare that there weren't many, 245 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:14.159 you know, children that just kind of came in off 246 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:18.440 the street by themselves. And I guess she again felt 247 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:21.639 the need to to take him under her wing and 248 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:25.480 maybe even saw this this h a need and use 249 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.279 for him. Uh and and and and and and I 250 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.559 guess started mentoring him. And yet Linetta was certainly not well, 251 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:35.399 you know, she didn't really know too much about it 252 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:41.159 until uh, you know she uh the minister took Jimmy 253 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.000 away on a trip, and I guess, you know, was 254 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.200 filling his head with these paranoid delusions that I guess 255 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.399 he portrayed onto his mother and and and told her about. 256 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.000 And I guess at that point she was not very 257 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:59.679 happy of that type of influence that she was having 258 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:01.840 on him. 259 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:05.279 Now, amazingly, we're talking about a kid from ten years 260 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.480 old to twelve years old in the time period that 261 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:11.399 we're talking about here, and then at twelve years old, 262 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:15.480 another incident kind of well affects his life too. Again 263 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:19.840 his friend Don Friedman. Again he gets introduced to a 264 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.120 BB gun and the next thing you know, they're introduced 265 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.120 to hunting. So him and Don go hunting. So tell 266 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.240 us about this story, because obviously it's important to in 267 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.879 foreshadowing at least, or tell us a little bit about 268 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:32.039 the story about the hunting trip. 269 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.000 Yeah, I mean, I think this is where you first 270 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:41.080 start to see, you know, Jimmy's sadistic side, where where 271 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.559 you know, he points the gun at Don and then 272 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:49.559 shoots at him, and it seems to be at this 273 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.919 point where he's you know, starting to kind of test 274 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.559 this relationship. This is where he in the future we 275 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:01.200 see this is a foreshadowing of every relationship that he'll 276 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:05.519 have in the future, of him testing people, you know, 277 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:10.720 and and and you know, it's showing his domination and 278 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:14.960 his statistic side, and it's kind of scary when you 279 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.720 look back, you know, that this was kind of the 280 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.720 beginning of it all, and it seemed to go unchecked. 281 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:28.200 You know, it never seemed to be checked at any point. 282 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:36.400 You know, in the book you talk about early influences. 283 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:40.400 He's enters high school in nineteen forty five, and he's 284 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:46.000 gravitates towards the works of Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Mohammed Gandhi, 285 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.559 and Karl Marx. And his IQ is reported at one 286 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.759 hundred and eighteen. So he's a smart guy. So tell 287 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.200 us a little bit about high school and how is 288 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:58.039 he regarded as by other students. I mean, we know 289 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.680 this is a very a time of really real religiosity, 290 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.799 but tell us how how does he stick out or 291 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:05.240 fit in? 292 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.559 Well, it seems that he didn't really fit in too well, 293 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.960 you know, he it was at this point where you know, 294 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:17.119 when he was younger, he you know, he was keen 295 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:20.519 as not really a clean boy. He didn't really care 296 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.319 too much about his appearance. Well this is where he 297 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.960 started now to you know, care about his appearance. Started 298 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.880 to do his hair, you know, that was one of 299 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.759 his best features. And he you know, he was always 300 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:35.359 combing his hair, and you know, the Jim class he 301 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:40.119 wouldn't participate. He wasn't a very athletic boy, and he was, 302 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.519 but he was very intelligent and he would always at 303 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.519 that point he would he was starting to you know, 304 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:48.319 preach to people and to the kids, and I guess 305 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.480 that kind of turned him off. And you know, he 306 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:56.160 was trying to, I guess, learn how, you know, how 307 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.359 to manipulate people, how to and and he wasn't really 308 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.559 good at it at that point. You know, that's that's 309 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.039 kind of what what I got mostly out of his 310 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.880 high school years that he you know, he would get 311 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:13.759 it to fight. He was trying to force feed people 312 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.880 his beliefs. And I think it was soon after that that, 313 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.799 you know, he really started to get it that you 314 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:22.400 can't do that. You know, you get more you know, 315 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.440 flu you know, bees with honey than with vinegar. 316 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.400 Now, he was also at the same time he was 317 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.599 interested in culturally what was going on, which was race 318 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.039 relations and also interestingly where he would go out of 319 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.240 out of his norm, out of his neighborhood or into 320 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.799 other communities to preach. He found the you know, a 321 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.640 big minority population. So tell us how that those the 322 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.920 two things came together and sort of worked for him 323 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.039 to formulate an idea of acceptance by an audience. 324 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.079 Right. Well, when he when he was you know, when 325 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:06.039 he was in his local area, you know, he'd dress 326 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.680 up in a robe and he'd really try to to 327 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.440 do the fatherly you know, preaching on the streets and 328 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:15.839 people just would walk by him and he wouldn't really 329 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.000 pay him much mind. And that was predominantly you know, 330 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:24.400 white area. And then he took the job in Richmond 331 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:26.759 at the hospital there and that's when he started preaching 332 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:31.720 in a predominantly black area. And it was there he 333 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:34.200 you know, he kind of that's where he started switching 334 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:36.680 up his style. He would you know, wear jeans or 335 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.119 he would he would dress nice, but he just he 336 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.680 he wouldn't be so overbearing. And I think that's where 337 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:49.319 he started to learn, you know that again, the manipulation tactics, 338 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.599 you know that how he was being theen he his 339 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:55.839 self awareness I think was growing and he was coming 340 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.079 into his own at that point. But that's where he 341 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:01.519 gained acceptance. And he saw that the black community was 342 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.759 you know, they they were more receptive. And he also 343 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.559 started listening to a lot of the black preachers of 344 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:14.200 the time and he saw how their charisma and their 345 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:19.759 excitement would would were really winning people over. And he 346 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:22.319 started to kind of mix that in a little at 347 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.480 this time and adopt those styles. And I think that's 348 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.559 you know, at that point, Uh, he was just kind 349 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:33.039 of testing it out and and and he was getting, 350 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:36.799 you know, small successes, so he continued to do it. 351 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:42.160 Now you were talking about his preaching days in Richmond 352 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:46.680 and where he met Dan Mittrione. And this is a 353 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:49.759 he was a Richmond police officer at that time, and 354 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.200 he's a little bit older and Jimmy and kind of 355 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.480 took a shining to Jim Jones and also just tell 356 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:01.039 us a little bit about his his CIA connection allegedly too. 357 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:03.759 So tell us about this interest, how he met him, 358 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.440 and how on earth these two guys become friendly. 359 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.720 We'll see that there now there. We don't have too 360 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:15.519 much information unfortunately during that time period of of you know, 361 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.319 their connection. I mean Jim Jim talks about it on 362 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.200 certain tapes later, but he doesn't go into great detail. 363 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:27.119 But you know, yes, they did have a relationship. Uh 364 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:30.079 you know, it was there that they met. He became 365 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:35.480 police chief Mattrion and uh, surely he knew of Jimmy. 366 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.119 You know, preaching on those streets a white boy and 367 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:42.640 a predominantly black neighborhood. So it was there that they met, 368 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.079 and they certainly were not It wasn't. 369 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:49.279 Enough with lucky lancelots. You can get lucky just about anywhere. 370 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.279 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 371 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.920 Has anyone seen the bride and broom? 372 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.839 Sorry, sorry, we're here. We were getting lucky in the 373 00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:58.160 limo and we lost track of time. 374 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.559 No lucky lankis you know with cash prizes that add 375 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:03.400 up quicker than a guess registered in. 376 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.079 In that case, I pronounced you lucky lucky. 377 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:10.599 Land slots dot com daily bonuses are rating. No purchase 378 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:13.079 necessary board. We're prohibited by Lot eight team plus terms 379 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.200 and conditions applaying see website for details. 380 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:19.839 Alleged CIA connection. I mean later on he he at 381 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:23.559 your own became uh, you know, head of the CIA's 382 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:29.920 torture department over in Brazil, and they actually did a 383 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.640 movie about him. You know, he was killed by some gorillas. 384 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.079 There's actually a movie about his life, so that could 385 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.359 be easily accessible in researched as well. But yeah, they 386 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:44.480 definitely knew each other and Jim Jim talked about him 387 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.279 and I'm sure we're going to get into what happened 388 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:53.079 in Brazil. I'm sure I'm assuming that that's where you're 389 00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:56.920 going with this, right, absolutely, Yeah, well we'll get we'll 390 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.319 get there. Sure, Okay, go ahead. 391 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:04.119 Now, So tell us, Uh, you know, Jim's parents separate, 392 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:08.880 He's in his last year of high school. Again, you 393 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:12.240 you you include a story about the last incident or 394 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.319 the farewell dinner with his friend Don and again this 395 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.119 is this is an important figure in this book. So 396 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.759 tell us a little bit about this last meeting and 397 00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:24.440 what what it really says about Jim Jones. 398 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.519 Yeah, well, I mean it's funny because you know, Don 399 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:30.519 had they went their separate ways in high school, and Don, 400 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.079 you know, was kind of, I guess with the cool kids. 401 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.440