WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.640 Welcome to an All Glasses and Mustachers episode of the Nonprofits. 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:06.599 For our first segment this week, we're looking once again 3 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:09.519 at the Ten Commandments in the classroom. Demian take us 4 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:10.480 to Louisiana. 5 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.679 I'd rather not, but if I really have to, it 6 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:15.880 is a long way from Australia as well, mind you. 7 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:16.640 But look look. 8 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:21.199 In an article from Newsweek published on October twenty third 9 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:24.879 and written Bay and Natalie Venegas, we learned that Christopher Deer, 10 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.280 the winner of Louisiana's Teacher of the Year award for 11 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:32.000 twenty twenty, has filed a lawsuit against the State of 12 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:36.479 Louisiana for its controversial statute HB seven to one, a 13 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:41.520 mandate requiring all public classrooms in all schools in Louisiana 14 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.439 to have a poster size display of the Ten Commandments 15 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.119 alongside a paragraph explaining the Ten Commandments role in the 16 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:54.840 early stages early stages of American education and history. However, 17 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:58.840 numerous individuals and groups have claimed that the display of 18 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:02.560 the Ten Commandments is tantamounts of the violation of the 19 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.519 separation of church and state, as well as conscripting teachers 20 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:11.000 into promoting religious doctrine with the State of Louisiana entering 21 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.439 into a legal battle on numerous fronts. It seems that 22 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.280 HB seven to one may not have been the most 23 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:21.599 prudent or most well thought out idea, But I would 24 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:24.079 love to get everybody else's thoughts on the matter. 25 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:26.840 Thanks, Damien, I think we'll stick with you at first 26 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:30.000 here before we rip into this, What are the arguments 27 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.799 in favor of this law? And do those arguments hold wider? 28 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:37.200 Is there a legitimate secular purpose to displaying the Ten 29 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:38.879 Commandments in the classroom? 30 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:39.400 Look? 31 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:43.239 In all my research, that the closest I could find 32 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:47.359 was that there was a twenty twenty one Supreme Court 33 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.719 decision that did actually uphold the idea that the Ten 34 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:56.359 Commandments does have a place in the history of education 35 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.840 in America. Now, whether you agree with that judgment or 36 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:02.120 I haven't read through the whole judgment, all I know 37 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:06.719 is that it exists. Yeah, that is that a sufficient 38 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:11.240 reason to mandate the putting the Ten Commandments in the classrooms? 39 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:14.080 I'm not too sure, but that is honestly the only 40 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:15.560 secular argument I. 41 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:19.280 Could find interesting. Interesting. All right, let's jump over to 42 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:21.199 Kelly then for a little bit. Kelly, what do you 43 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:24.000 think about this law as far as the effect it'll 44 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:27.280 have on teachers in Louisiana. How will this affect teachers who, 45 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:32.000 like Christopher Dear from the article, he opposes displaying religious 46 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:36.039 materials in his classroom due to his personal beliefs and 47 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.639 constitutional concerns. So what's the effect going to be on teachers? 48 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:42.879 First off, kudos to him for bringing the lawsuit, and 49 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:45.319 I'm so happy that he was like the Teacher of 50 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:48.319 the Year because it brings a certain amount of legitimacy 51 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:51.240 with it too, So he's not just some crazy guy 52 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:54.919 who's teaching at some small school in Louisiana that nobody 53 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:57.599 cares about. Right, So kudos to him to begin with. 54 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:00.680 But one of the things that really bother me about this, 55 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:03.199 since you bring it up, is that the state is 56 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:06.879 making and Damien even mentioned it in the intro, the 57 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:12.560 state is making teachers into religious teachers, right. They are 58 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:16.159 now having to push a religion in their classroom, and 59 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:18.240 not every child is going to be a part of 60 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:20.879 that religion. If these were the five Pillars of Islam 61 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:23.080 up on the wall, I bet some of the people 62 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:25.719 that parents in those classes would be really up in arms. 63 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.240 But I don't I really feel for the teachers in 64 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.759 this case because me with geology and healing crystals, people 65 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:34.960 are always trying to turn me into a shaman. So 66 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.039 I totally get it, you know, and it really breaks 67 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.360 my heart to see the state kind of forcing this 68 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:41.520 onto the teachers. 69 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:44.240 Like this so interesting. Interesting. 70 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:46.520 I want to get Steven's take on this too, and 71 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:48.800 then I'm going to open it up to some questions 72 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:52.240 for the panel. But Stephen, as half of our panel 73 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:57.280 this week is not American, including yourself, I'm curious as 74 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:00.199 to how does this look from the outside you what 75 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.439 would it? What would this How would you react if 76 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:04.719 this happened in your local school? 77 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:10.240 Oh no, dude, buddha Ey, it'd be pretty wild, you know, Eh, yeah, no, 78 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:15.080 it's I I can't. I can't. I can't imagine religion 79 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:20.000 having such an impact in our government set up here 80 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:22.600 in Canada. And maybe I'm naive, and I know that 81 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.480 things can vary from province to province. Like obviously we 82 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:28.160 all know everybody on this side of the border knows 83 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:32.240 that Alberta is little Texas, that there's a lot of 84 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:38.560 similarities between Alberta, Colorado, Texas, and so like maybe I 85 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:43.160 think that's probably the most right leaning province that we 86 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.639 have up here right now, So maybe something like that 87 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.839 could possibly be entertained out there, But anywhere else in 88 00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:54.399 the country, I can't see the church trying to insinuate 89 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:59.879 itself so brazenly into our education system and into our 90 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:05.079 into any system that has, you know, under the auspices 91 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:08.319 of provincial or federal government. It's just wild to me 92 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:14.240 how much sway and control religious institutions have in other 93 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:18.319 parts of the world, such as Louisiana, et cetera, et cetera. 94 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:22.199 Now in Canada, though they don't have there's not an 95 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:25.360 explicit separation of church and state like in the United States, 96 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:26.040 right is that? 97 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:28.839 Am I correct with that? Or is there like it? 98 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:32.879 Well, don't like Catholic schools can still be funded by 99 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:34.240 the Canadian government in. 100 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:36.720 Or maybe it's maybe there is, but it's just a 101 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:39.600 little different than than what we have here or what we. 102 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:41.560 Used to have or should have here. 103 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:48.639 Like I don't think it ever enters into the converseate 104 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:51.680 or maybe it hasn't been a part I think are foundationally. 105 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:55.319 It's just never been in our DNA quite in the 106 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.639 same way that we've our neighbors to the south have experienced, 107 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:00.920 and so it's just like we have a Charter of 108 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.839 Rates and freedoms, which you know, it makes a firm 109 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:10.879 and a firmer differentiation between what religion Canada cannot be 110 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:11.399 involved in. 111 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:17.959 I'd like Americans Canadians actually read their documents and understand, well, if. 112 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:20.720 I could jump in for a second, seven is in 113 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:24.000 the same place as I. So Canada and Australia are 114 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:29.279 both constitutional. Monarchy is run by currently run by King 115 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:33.000 Charles the Third. King Charles the Third literally has his 116 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:37.720 own church. The Anglican Church is run by the current monarch. 117 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:42.240 So technically there is no church state separation. The church 118 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:46.160 that the Anglican Church is the state sponsored church. However, 119 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.800 and I can speak for the Australian the Australian experience. 120 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.920 If someone tried to put croationists or even I suppose 121 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:58.079 fundamentally religious principles into a school classroom, we tell him 122 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:01.600 to bugger off is an way. Now, what I did 123 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.759 want to do here was I've actually got the Louisiana 124 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.399 Statute HB seven to one on the screen in front 125 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:09.879 of me, and I did want to just read a 126 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:12.600 couple of sections out just to get your thoughts, get 127 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:16.000 the collective thoughts about it. So Section three says, in 128 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:19.959 twenty nineteen, the Supreme Court of the United States further 129 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:24.519 recognized that the Ten Commandments have historical significance as one 130 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.199 of the foundations of our legal system in American Legion 131 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.240 versus American Humanist Association five eight eight, and the Court 132 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:35.399 also ruled that the displaying of the Ten Commandments on 133 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:40.560 public property may have multiple purposes, such as historical significance 134 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.920 and represent a common cultural heritage. So that's Part three. 135 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:48.680 Part four says, recognizing the historical role of the Ten 136 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:54.279 Commandments accords with our nation's history and faithfully reflects the 137 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:58.279 understanding of the founders of our nation with respect to 138 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:02.279 the necessity of civic morale to a functional self government. 139 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.480 And then, as Chapter seven says, sorry, Part seven says, 140 00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:11.639 the Mayflower Compact of sixteen twenty was America's first written 141 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.639 constitution and made a covenant with Almighty God to form 142 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.920 a civic body politic. This was the first purely American 143 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:25.279 document of self government and affirmed the link between civil 144 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:26.519 society and God. 145 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:29.720 How do you call a document written by a bunch 146 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.000 of people that just came here from England an American 147 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:36.440 fucking document. If you're not even they're not calling themselves Americans, 148 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:39.799 they're still calling themselves British. How is that an American document? 149 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.679 I don't get that just because it was written in America. No, 150 00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:45.559 that's bullshit, you know. So this is one of the 151 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:47.720 problems is that we're going to start picking and choosing 152 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:50.360 these things that we're going to use to justify to 153 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.000 do things that are unconstitutional. And let's face it, this 154 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.879 is unconstitutional what they've done. We actually predicted her unknown 155 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.559 privates when we first covered this story. We predicted it 156 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:04.080 was going to go to court really quick. And I 157 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:06.639 am sure that our Teacher of the Year is going 158 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:10.519 to win because this is strictly an unconstitutional thing and 159 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.320 you can't pull up some document that was written before 160 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:17.840 America was even thought about being pissed upon and use 161 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.639 that as your justification for going over the American Constitution. 162 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:23.759 That's ridiculous. Sorry, well look. 163 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.720 But look, look I can see the historical value argument. However, 164 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:36.559 I'm not sure what mandating that it is shown in 165 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:40.320 every classroom, So it's not just it's not actually just 166 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:43.840 the Ten Commandments, it's the Ten Commandments plus like an 167 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:48.200 explanatory paragraph that includes like the MAYFA like that explains 168 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:53.080 the Mayfair Charter or whatever it's called as well may 169 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.080 fake American. 170 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:56.799 It's all good. 171 00:09:58.320 --> 00:09:59.919 I can see that, and I think it would be 172 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:02.919 really good in a Civics class or like a history 173 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:07.840 class or a social social studies class. But from my perspective, 174 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:12.840 mandating it in every classroom is clearly. 175 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:14.919 Sorry, in every kindergarten classroom. 176 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:15.759 Yeah, yeah, well. 177 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:20.399 He's clearly I suppose pushing a religious what's the word, 178 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:23.799 viewpoint or a religious position. 179 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.399 Right, right, So yeah, and it's from what you were 180 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:29.200 saying when you were Damien, when you were reading it, 181 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:32.720 it sounds like they're using the old chestnut, you know, 182 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:36.000 you can't have morality without God kind of argument, but 183 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:38.399 they're applying it on a national level, and so, I 184 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:42.399 don't know, you know, to me, these seem very flimsy arguments, 185 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:46.279 as is common when discussing this this type of topic. 186 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.960 It seems like they're not actually trying to base decisions 187 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:51.919 off of sound reasoning and. 188 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:54.120 History. 189 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.399 What they're doing is they're starting with their desired conclusion 190 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.679 and seeing if they can piece meal a sound break 191 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.720 out the duct tap and the and the w D. 192 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.840 Foy and then put together some kind of Frankenstein support 193 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:09.120 for this, and it just seems like it's a like 194 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.639 kind of a backwards way of approaching it. 195 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:14.000 But sorry, go ahead, demon. 196 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:16.320 So I was going to say, add one more thing. 197 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:19.320 And this is a common thing that I find when 198 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:24.240 discussing religion online with Christians is that they do make 199 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:29.399 the argument that modern modern laws are based upon the 200 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:35.200 Ten Commandments, you know, especially Western Western Western liberal laws 201 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.399 are inherently based on the Ten Commandments, which is an 202 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.759 argument that I personally find I wouldn't say goaling, but 203 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.240 just incredibly stupid, because you know, we don't have any 204 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:49.120 laws about working on the Sabbath, we don't have any 205 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:52.879 laws about committing adultery, you know, and where it says 206 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.279 do not murder, you know, Louisiana is I think if 207 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.159 I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, Louisiana still has the 208 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:02.080 death penalty on it books. So it's like, go. 209 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:06.120 Figure right, right, yeah, yeah, Stephen, what do you what 210 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:07.000 do you have to say about that? 211 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:11.120 Like, like if I tried to imagine, like what would 212 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.960 if I were that teacher, if I was in that situation, 213 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:17.039 what would my response be what would I do? Like, 214 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:21.639 would I like, could I be disobedient? Could I like, okay, 215 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:24.600 I will put this poster up backwards? Like would would 216 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.759 that count? Would I get my wrist to slap for that? 217 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:30.679 Would I want to like put up? Okay, here's the 218 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:34.360 Ten Commandments and here's you know, the Hindu equivalent of 219 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.440 whatever the ten Commandments are, and here's the wise sayings 220 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:38.919 of the Buddha, and we're going to put them all 221 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.120 and maybe we could just drown out this one or 222 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:44.960 at least like add some global contextual context to what 223 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.759 just the fact that there is more to morality than 224 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:54.200 these ten really weird things like like the Ten Commandments 225 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:58.559 are not that great of a list of documents, and like, hey, enough, 226 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.480 like the first three are all about how God is 227 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:03.840 jealous and if you don't love him completely, he will 228 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:08.159 hurt you forever. And what is that doing in schools? 229 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.360 Is that the message we want to give our students? 230 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.919 Well, and my heart goes out, especially to the young kids, 231 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.639 like we're talking about five years old, right, you want 232 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:20.240 to put this list in front of them and then 233 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.879 try to explain the deep significance of how this has 234 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.639 impacted the law judicial system of their land. They can't 235 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.200 understand any of that. Maybe they can't necessarily read the 236 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.320 Ten Commandments either, but you're still planting that seed, and 237 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:36.200 they are not able to understand why that seed is 238 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:37.960 being put in front of them. Why are you putting 239 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.240 the Ten fucking Commandments on the same levels as the ABCS. 240 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:42.039 Motherfuckers? 241 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.399 Right exactly exactly, Kelly, I want you to continue on 242 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.799 with that thought about how this is going to affect 243 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:51.759 the students, and so this is we've we've we've mentioned 244 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:56.360 that this law will promote a single actually a single 245 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:59.200 version of a single religion. How do you think this 246 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.320 is going to affect students of other religions or of 247 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:02.960 no religion. 248 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:05.360 I think it's going to show them that their religion 249 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:07.840 doesn't mean shit, not here in this classroom. You know, 250 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:10.480 if if I got even if I got twenty eight 251 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.679 Christians in the room and two Muslims, I'm just shitting 252 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.480 on those two, those two Muslims. Like I was saying before, 253 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.639 let's see, if we're going to put up the Ten Commandments, 254 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:21.399 we also need to put up the five Pillars of Islam. 255 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.840 We need to put up as as Stephen was just 256 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:28.480 saying other things, from Hinduism, from other religions, maybe we 257 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.440 should put up a creation If we're going to get historical, 258 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:34.080 let's put up the creation story of the Choctaw Indians 259 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:37.080 for crying out loud, you know, because they were there 260 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.360 before us, so as honor as we're going back in time. 261 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.360 So yeah, I think it's just kind of shitting on 262 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.879 the students by showing in that their religious view viewpoints 263 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.120 don't count at all. These are the ones to count. 264 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.799 You're allowed, you have to follow this religion, these religious rules, 265 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:55.320 and no other. And as it was pointed out too, 266 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:57.120 I mean most of them don't even have anything to 267 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.759 do with the law. The first four are just religious 268 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:00.360 and nature. 269 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:02.320 The first yeah, the first four commandments. 270 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.240 Yeah, for the Ten Commandments. 271 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.879 Yeah, if I can, if I can ask the question, 272 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.279 sure for the American part of the audience, is there 273 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:17.320 a valid and legitimate historical background to the Ten Commandments 274 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:18.600 in American culture? 275 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.279 You know, I've never heard about that, that particular approach 276 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.159 until like in the last fifteen twenty years or so. 277 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.279 I remember as a kid ever hearing that. 278 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:34.240 For example, if you put a cross up on a 279 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.480 like a gravestone or something, you know, we know cross 280 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.159 as are associated with Christianity, but there is also like 281 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:44.759 a very long historical association with marking the death the 282 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:47.679 spot of someone's death with a cross. So a cross 283 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:52.679 isn't necessary religious. But is there a valid historical purpose 284 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.080 or meaning that can be tied to the Ten Commandments? 285 00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:58.240 I think yeah, I don't think so. 286 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:00.600 On In fact, I think there's a you know, the 287 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:05.440 only historical references to this kind of thing are really 288 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:07.840 just the opposite. I mean, it's the separation of church 289 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.799 and state. It's it's you know that that particular concept 290 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.399 is foundational to the United States. You can see that 291 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.679 in our foundational documents, and it specifically says that, you know, 292 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:23.600 the United States began as people fleeing religious persecution and 293 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:27.840 so and so here we are, you know, basically, I say, 294 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:30.200 they say that you're bound to grow up to be 295 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:32.440 your parents. I mean, is that what's happening here? Is 296 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.039 that the United States are growing up to be their parents? 297 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:35.399 Is that? 298 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:36.320 Well? 299 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:39.679 I was just going to say that while we don't 300 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.879 have that institutional connection or history, and I'm pretty good 301 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:44.919 at American history and I don't know anything like that, 302 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.720 but there is a strong personal history because you have 303 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:50.279 to remember that America was founded by a bunch of 304 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.879 freaking religious fanatics. So there is you know, we have 305 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.200 in that sense. Yes, there is a historical connection, but 306 00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:59.840 it's a personal connection, not an institutional one. 307 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.440 And Kelly's actually kind of made my point for me, 308 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.119 was that the people who left England, yes they were, 309 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:10.160 they were suffering religious persecution, so they came to the 310 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.599 land of the United States of America in order to 311 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:16.160 enact their own version of religious persecution. 312 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:18.160 Yeah, so totally, yes, totally. 313 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:23.039 So we've mentioned the Supreme Court and and and Kelly 314 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.519 mentioned the Supreme Court in the same breath as saying 315 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:27.319 going against the Constitution. 316 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.519 Now, the Constitution. 317 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:32.920 Lays out the duties of the various branches of government, 318 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.440 and one of the duties of the Supreme Court is 319 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.160 to interpret the Constitution. And so in a way, you 320 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:43.599 could argue that the Supreme Court can't go against the 321 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:48.119 Constitution because the Constitution is what the Supreme Court says. 322 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:50.759 Yes, what's your what do you what do you think 323 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:51.160 about that? 324 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.039 And can I just say two words, real query, Bud Scott, 325 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:55.759 that's all you need to hear. 326 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:57.359 Yeah, yeah, that's true. 327 00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.960 I mean yeah, because because you so Kelly, you're arguing 328 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.839 doing that, it's the role of the Constitution to stand 329 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.440 in and defend the people when the rest of the 330 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:07.160 government won't. 331 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:08.039 Is that kind of what you're. 332 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.480 Saying, when even when Scotus is wrong, we still have 333 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:14.319 the Constitution. And so what happened here in that case 334 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:17.599 is it took generations, but we got the correct ruling 335 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:23.000 decades later. Right, the Constitution was upheld, but the Constitution 336 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.880 even overrode the bad justices and the Supreme Court. 337 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.480 So Stephen, what do you say about that? 338 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:32.440 What's your perspective on the United States Supreme Court pushing 339 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:34.839 the Constitution in a particular direction. Do you think that's 340 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.720 their their warrant or do you think that they're kind 341 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:38.920 of crossing the line here? 342 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:44.799 That's that's a really great question, Scott. That's absolutely I've learned. 343 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:49.000 I've learned a lot about your judicial system down there 344 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:51.599 in the States over the past few years, a lot 345 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.319 more than what I knew before, and probably I know 346 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.480 now less than what I will know in the future. 347 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:02.079 But yes, you all have a constantution and a Supreme Court. 348 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:04.279 Definitely interesting. Interesting. 349 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.839 So one last question for the panel and then I'm 350 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:08.759 gonna I just want to get a quick answer, will 351 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:12.319 go down one at a time. And so we've we've 352 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:16.119 seen successful challenges to religious displays on public property before, 353 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:20.440 things like Christmas decorations, et cetera. Is this situation wanting 354 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:24.240 to display religious materials in public schools? Is this different 355 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.240 or the same to that kind of thing or is it? 356 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:27.960 You know? 357 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.839 And how so, so we'll start with Damien and then 358 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:31.160 we'll go to Kelly and then to Stephen. 359 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:34.680 I think from our atheist perspective, it looks like that 360 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:36.799 this is going to go the same way, because from 361 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:42.119 our perspective, it clearly looks like a display forcible display 362 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:45.880 of religious materials. However, I think this is this is 363 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.119 a lawyer's paradise, as I may say. 364 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:49.880 So, you think a lot of people are going to 365 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.680 make a lot of money out of the litigation that's 366 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:56.480 gonna oh yeah, fall from this particular manna from heaven? 367 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:56.799 Right? 368 00:19:57.960 --> 00:19:59.279 Heck yes, heck yes. 369 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:01.799 Kelly, what's what's your thoughts in there? 370 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:04.119 Do you think this is kind of like displaying Christmas 371 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:05.839 decorations or is it different? 372 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:10.319 I think I think it is different than Christmas decorations 373 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:12.759 because I mean, let's face that there isn't a real 374 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.440 lot of religious aspect to Santa Claus. I mean, there 375 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.400 are other religious aspects to Christmas, but you can make 376 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.759 Christmas decorations totally secular, right. And I was reading the 377 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.519 follow up on this story and apparently a federal judge 378 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.319 hasn't monished the state of I mean, no legal action 379 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.680 has been taken yet, but he has verbally admonished the 380 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:32.400 state of Louisiana for this lot. 381 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.960 So, okay, Steven, you what are your thoughts on that? 382 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.000 How does this compare to trying to keep that Nativity 383 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.839 scene off out of the community center yard? How does 384 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.160 that compare to putting the Ten Commandments in front of 385 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:47.000 students' faces? 386 00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:52.480 Think of the children, children, Oh, they need to if 387 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.519 we don't like it. Just it feeds into that narrative 388 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:59.920 of any time we try to act responsibly in differentiating 389 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.480 ourselves from the past, that's when people are motivated to say, oh, well, 390 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.559 you're trying to erase the past, and that means you 391 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:07.440 don't want to learn from the past. I'm like, no, 392 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.079 we're trying to. We're trying to implement what we have 393 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.880 learned from the past in a responsible way. 394 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:18.559 So it's so basically you're comparing progress versus conservatism based 395 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:20.200 in a sense, right, yeah. 396 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.880 Basically, yeah, like it it's for us to It's not 397 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:27.079 a matter of trying to erase what may have been 398 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:31.759 an influence in the founding of a nation, but it's 399 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:34.079 about dealing with it responsibly and not just in a 400 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:37.319 way that is empowering to the majority, right, right, exactly. 401 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:40.279