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<v Speaker 1>It's the Opperman Report, and now here is an investigator

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<v Speaker 1>at Opperman.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, private

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<v Speaker 2>investigator Ed Opperman. You can get a hold of me

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<v Speaker 2>at Opperman Investigations and Digital Forensic Consulting if you reach

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<v Speaker 2>out to me through my email Oppermaninvestigations at gmail dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I feel like I show. We're going to check

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<v Speaker 2>out our Patreon, The Opperman Report. Patreon everything you hear

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<v Speaker 2>monther to Friday our amfrom radio, you can find a

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<v Speaker 2>red Patreon with all the ads and the commercials cut out.

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<v Speaker 2>Aretherwise every Friday night, eight pm Eastern Time standard fourteen

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<v Speaker 2>years man and I've hardly missed a show. You get

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<v Speaker 2>one hour solo and then two hours of brand new

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<v Speaker 2>podcast content consistently for fourteen years. Otherwise. If you go

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<v Speaker 2>to Spotify or Apple Plays or Spreaker and sign up

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<v Speaker 2>there for free, I play repeats every single day of

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<v Speaker 2>the week to all the old classic stuff that people

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<v Speaker 2>seem to love. A lot of people haven't even heard

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<v Speaker 2>of it, so hearing it for the first time and

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<v Speaker 2>speaking of repeats, our guest today, Rob Mackenzie's been on before.

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<v Speaker 2>If you search Rob McKenzie El goldbe Us Labor, the

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<v Speaker 2>CIA and the Coup at Ford in Mexico. But he's back.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got a brand new book out, and there's a

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<v Speaker 2>book two about that too called El goldpe Us Labor,

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<v Speaker 2>the Cia and the Core at Ford in Mexico. But

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<v Speaker 2>we got the first interview, then you got the book

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<v Speaker 2>you can buy, and then he's got a brand new

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<v Speaker 2>book called The Assassination of Walter Ruther, Why they did

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<v Speaker 2>it and how we know Rob mackenzie. You could find

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<v Speaker 2>him at Rob McKenzie dot net and also at Rob

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<v Speaker 2>McKenzie at Facebook. Mister mackenzie, are you there?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I am ed. Thanks for having me on again.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, right. My interest are getting longer and longer.

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<v Speaker 2>It's almost as long as you've been away. But remind

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<v Speaker 2>the audience anybody's been asleep. Who is Rob mackenzie.

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<v Speaker 1>Rob McKenzie worked in a Ford assembly plant for twenty

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<v Speaker 1>eight years, and the last eight years i there, I

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<v Speaker 1>was president of the local union. And when Ford announced

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<v Speaker 1>their closing the plan, I took a job on the

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<v Speaker 1>international staff of the United Automobile Workers Union. Did that

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<v Speaker 1>for ten years, and when I retired, I started a

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<v Speaker 1>research project about attack on workers at a Ford plant

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<v Speaker 1>in Mexico that resulted in the first book, which you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>and that one led me to the second book.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Once again, that first book is El golpe Us Labor,

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<v Speaker 2>the CIA and the Coup at Ford in Mexico, and

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<v Speaker 2>then in parentheses Wildcat. But also to check out the

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<v Speaker 2>first interview too, because a lot of great content in

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<v Speaker 2>that interview, which is why I'm so excited to have

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<v Speaker 2>you back now about the second book here, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a I never heard of this guy, Walter Ruther, So

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<v Speaker 2>what's who was Walter Ruther.

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<v Speaker 1>Walter Ruther was the first president and one of the

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<v Speaker 1>founders of the United Automobile Workers Union, and that emerged

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen thirties with some famous labor events the

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<v Speaker 1>Flint set downstrike and other really violent conflicts with the

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<v Speaker 1>auto employers, and he served as president. He was elected

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<v Speaker 1>president in nineteen forty six and he served till nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy and his mysterious death in a plane crash. And

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<v Speaker 1>he was allies and friends with the Kennedys, with Martin

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<v Speaker 1>Luther King, a very progressive labor leader who brought the

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<v Speaker 1>American autoworkers into the middle class. So he was really

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<v Speaker 1>a famous figure in labor history.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if you go to the COVID action article is

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<v Speaker 2>right here, November third elections are a hoax, us out

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<v Speaker 2>of Southeast Asia, no negotiations, cops out of the ghetto,

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<v Speaker 2>support striking auto workers.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was the SDS. He provided the first meeting

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<v Speaker 1>spot for the SDS in Michigan where they had their

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<v Speaker 1>founding convention. So that flyer was something that SDS had

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<v Speaker 1>put out about that time.

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<v Speaker 2>Do we have any labor organizations today that far left,

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<v Speaker 2>that that progressive, that of that workers for workers.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there's a few, you know, at the times

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<v Speaker 1>are different. I mean, the nineteen thirties was really a

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<v Speaker 1>time of upheaval, and even the more conservative unions then

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<v Speaker 1>are more liberal than many unions are today and more activists.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, there's some great labor people in the country,

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<v Speaker 1>though overall, I'd say there's nobody that compares to him.

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<v Speaker 1>And actually he split with the mainstream of American labor

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<v Speaker 1>with George meaning the AFL CIA CIO in nineteen sixty six.

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<v Speaker 1>He over the issue of involvement with the CIA, he

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<v Speaker 1>split and formed a rival labor federation called the Alliance

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<v Speaker 1>for Labor Action in nineteen sixty eight, And.

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<v Speaker 2>Was it theft loss of the labor movement, the labor unions.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that because of these assassinations.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, now that's a good question. I mean, I think

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of factors that contribute to the decline

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<v Speaker 1>of the American labor movement. Now, the loss of Walter

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<v Speaker 1>Ruther was an important one. He had decided that the

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<v Speaker 1>organized labor had begun to decline in the nineteen sixties

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<v Speaker 1>and was looking for ways to move the fight for

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<v Speaker 1>social justice forward. And one of those was this Alliance

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<v Speaker 1>for Labor Action, which he was going to have the

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<v Speaker 1>traditional unions and something he called community unions, which we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be organized in cities and towns of workers

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<v Speaker 1>and poor people and include them in the labor movement.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was really the kind of thinking we needed

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<v Speaker 1>to preserve the labor movement, and with his death that

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<v Speaker 1>really disappeared.

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<v Speaker 2>It just seems such a like a no brainer, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and organize all the workers, you know, not just the

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<v Speaker 2>auto workers are yeah, factory all the yeah. But and

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<v Speaker 2>then you're you're there. You're in the think of it, man,

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<v Speaker 2>you're in the trenches. You know, is there any hope

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<v Speaker 2>for us to to.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there's always hope. It looks pretty dire right now

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<v Speaker 1>with the Fifth Circuit Court has found the National Labor

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<v Speaker 1>Relations Board to be unconstitutional. So in Texas, Lunisiana, and Mississippi,

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<v Speaker 1>the National Labor Relations Board and the Nationalbor Relations Act

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<v Speaker 1>is unenforceable and these and that's going to the Supreme

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<v Speaker 1>Court late this year or early next year. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>if they rule in favor of the Fifth Circuit Court,

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<v Speaker 1>that is the law that all unions are built on.

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<v Speaker 1>So what happens in that scenario. Nothing good. That could

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<v Speaker 1>be the end. So it's precarious suation for organized.

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<v Speaker 2>Labor right now. And just imagine we hold all the power,

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<v Speaker 2>the workers hold all the power. Okay, So back to Ruther,

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<v Speaker 2>Walter Ruther. So now you're convinced that this was an

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<v Speaker 2>assassination and by who was behind the assassination?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know the fact that this was assassination, I

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<v Speaker 1>believe is completely based on evidence. Now, now, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if you remember you put me in touch with

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<v Speaker 1>aj Weberman. Oh sure, he in the nineteen nineties did

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<v Speaker 1>research on the ultimeter that was involved in the Ruther crash.

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<v Speaker 1>And he turned over all his files to me, a

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<v Speaker 1>sixty one page report on the ultimeter beyond a shadow

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<v Speaker 1>of a doubt that had been sabotaged, so it read

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred and fifty feet too high. Now, I donated

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<v Speaker 1>those documents he gave me to the University of Michigan's

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<v Speaker 1>archives and they are now. So, yeah, the altimeter was sabotage,

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<v Speaker 1>six wrong missing and missus symbol parts. The threads of

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<v Speaker 1>the screws were torn out, and the manufacturer said, this

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<v Speaker 1>is reading two hundred and fifty feet too high. At

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<v Speaker 1>the time of this crash, so his private jet was

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<v Speaker 1>directed to a little runway that didn't have approach lights,

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<v Speaker 1>the only one at this airport that didn't have approach lights.

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<v Speaker 1>It was night, it was dark, and that pilot had

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<v Speaker 1>to rely on that altimeter to land, and of course

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<v Speaker 1>he hit the top of some trees and the plane crash,

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<v Speaker 1>killing everybody on board.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so you're saying that first they put in a

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<v Speaker 2>dummied up altimeter onto the plane, then they diverted him

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<v Speaker 2>to an airstrip that didn't have lights.

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<v Speaker 1>So right, exactly, so there was a question about how

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<v Speaker 1>could they have intalved this. His flight. He left from

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<v Speaker 1>Detroit Metro Airport. It was supposed to leave at seven

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<v Speaker 1>point thirty. It was delay for an hour and twenty

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<v Speaker 1>minutes because one of the passengers, an architect named Oscar Stonerov,

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<v Speaker 1>his flight was delayed from Philadelphia, so that jet sat

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<v Speaker 1>there in the runway unguarded for an hour. So no

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<v Speaker 1>question in my mind that altimeter was put that sabotage

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<v Speaker 1>altimeter was put in a flight and the plane just

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<v Speaker 1>before the flight to Pelston Airport.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh really, now, isn't there a record of repairs and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that? That has to be documentation, right of.

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<v Speaker 1>Course, And there was a maintenance log. The maintenance log

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<v Speaker 1>had a serial number on the altimeter that put in

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<v Speaker 1>there six months before. So if you're going to say

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<v Speaker 1>this was an accident, you have to explain how this

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<v Speaker 1>altimeter with six wrong missing and missassembled parts, with the

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<v Speaker 1>threads stripped out from the school hole, breathing two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty feet too high, had been in that plane

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<v Speaker 1>for six months without a problem, and then as soon

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<v Speaker 1>as it got to Pelston Airport had started reading two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty feet too high. Number two is that

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<v Speaker 1>altimeter which according to the maintenance log was in that plane.

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<v Speaker 1>It had a serial number SN seventy eight. The manufacturer's

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<v Speaker 1>examination of the ultimeter in the crash said there were

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<v Speaker 1>no identifying marks, no serial numbers on the ultimeter in

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<v Speaker 1>the crash. Also, that altimeter had been manufactured for the

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<v Speaker 1>military and it had never been approved to use in

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<v Speaker 1>civilian aviation.

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<v Speaker 2>That's interesting now, So then who would have the ability

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<v Speaker 2>to pull off an operation like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's seriously, it would be very complicated. It had

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<v Speaker 1>to be the CIA to do that level of engineering

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<v Speaker 1>on an ultimeter, very sophisticated work. He also had motive.

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<v Speaker 1>The CIA had motive because Ruther was involved in this

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<v Speaker 1>fight in the afl CIO over its involvement with the CIA.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a big issue, and the Ruthers left the

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<v Speaker 1>afl CIO over and they weren't afraid to say why.

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<v Speaker 1>They were talking about CIA involvement and labor. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>a motive. They had an air base, a secret airbase

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<v Speaker 1>in the US which has just come out in the

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<v Speaker 1>last ten years or so. At this a Nevada test

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<v Speaker 1>range the area of fifty one that was a secret

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<v Speaker 1>CIA air base where they were flying the U two

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<v Speaker 1>out of among other things. And the book about that says, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>they were doing all sorts of black ops.

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<v Speaker 2>There.

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<v Speaker 1>There were not eveny roads going into that airport. The

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<v Speaker 1>engineers were flown in every week and then flown home

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<v Speaker 1>on the weekends. So they had a method, they had

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<v Speaker 1>the means, and they had an opportunity. Now, I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no evidence of what an individual was working on this,

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<v Speaker 1>but I have theory, and I said, this is speculative

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<v Speaker 1>that this is who I think was involved. This was

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<v Speaker 1>a guy named John Leir, who was the son of

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<v Speaker 1>the manufacturer of the jet. They were in Bill la

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<v Speaker 1>out of here.

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<v Speaker 2>I know John lear He's dead now. I knew John

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<v Speaker 2>him a couple of times from Nevada. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He worked for the CIA between nineteen sixty seven

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<v Speaker 1>and nineteen eighty three. He flew for the CIA and

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<v Speaker 1>via Team Laos during the Vietnam War, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>involved in a lot of this UFO stuff around Area

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<v Speaker 1>fifty one after she supposedly had retired from the CIA.

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<v Speaker 1>So and he had far right wing politics. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what in case you ran in, but he was

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<v Speaker 1>in something called the Dark Side movement, which said aliens

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<v Speaker 1>are working with the government, and a lot of this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a lot of his alien stuff he just got

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<v Speaker 2>off the enginet and he would believe it and repeat it.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of his stuff that he got was just

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<v Speaker 2>a kind of flaky. And and then he had some

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<v Speaker 2>kind of gold mine in Nevada and his wife ran

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<v Speaker 2>a colazing here some a talent agency for little kids. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it was really wha yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>You're yeah, that's that was in Las Vegas, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but what he was like done in Boulder, Boulder

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<v Speaker 2>City I think area. Yeah, okay, yeah, very strange, yeah guy, yeah, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And what makes you think that he was connected to this?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, there can't be, because this is somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who knew exactly how a commercial private jet would respond

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<v Speaker 1>to the conditions when they would rely on their altimeter,

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<v Speaker 1>How how they would do that, How you would get

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<v Speaker 1>an altimeter into a plane. It's not that hard, right

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<v Speaker 1>he Really you had to have somebody who was very

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<v Speaker 1>familiarlier with commercial aviation, and someone who's willing to kill

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<v Speaker 1>innocent people. Because there were six people on the plane,

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<v Speaker 1>so even if you wanted to kill Luthor, five other

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<v Speaker 1>people died. So I just never thought it could possibly

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<v Speaker 1>be you know, some Air Force pilot they pulled out

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<v Speaker 1>of the ranks. I mean, this had to be someone

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<v Speaker 1>he was probably many people recognize John Lear as the

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<v Speaker 1>greatest commercial air pilot of all time. He held all

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of records and commercial jets, so he really knew

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<v Speaker 1>his business. So again, there's no evidence connecting him. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when you're talking about this kind of thing,

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<v Speaker 1>people just don't want you to say, well, the CIA

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<v Speaker 1>did it. So I really made an effort with him

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<v Speaker 1>and some other people who I believe could have been

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<v Speaker 1>involved in this. But again it's speculative.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah you're sure, but you're in research into Leird because

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<v Speaker 2>there was some speculation he was involved with the October

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<v Speaker 2>Surprise flying those people around too. Anything drop across the

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<v Speaker 2>desk on that that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well I first first heard his name was on this

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<v Speaker 1>Octopus murders. Oh really, Well it wasn't him, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was a podcast that guy did, I think with Moraley

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<v Speaker 1>on JFA JFK Fax and he talked about the film

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<v Speaker 1>they showed of the JFK assassination, which showed some bizarre

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<v Speaker 1>and strange things. He said, And you mentioned, well, John

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<v Speaker 1>Leir was involved with that film. Said John leear who

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<v Speaker 1>is this? And then I began looking into him. So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, he's got quite a murky past.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, he was involved in a flying around the

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<v Speaker 2>rock stars and all kind of you know stuff. But

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<v Speaker 2>also you know, you know, talk about the Octopus murders.

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<v Speaker 2>I have three hours exclusive with Bill Hamilton, the president

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<v Speaker 2>of Inslaw, who wrote the promised software. The guy at

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<v Speaker 2>the center of the whole story, the one that they

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<v Speaker 2>smeared on Netflix. They did a smear job on this

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<v Speaker 2>guy on Netflix. Oh, it's just outrageous and how people

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<v Speaker 2>can can admire that documentary. Just I know he was

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<v Speaker 2>so upset about it and his wife, But that's fasting.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>There was another story there.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's they were trying to claim

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<v Speaker 2>that the some craziness that he was. They were getting

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<v Speaker 2>their information from people at a bowling alley, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with this guy, I have yeah, I remember, yeah, I've

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<v Speaker 2>seen communication with him and the director of the CIA.

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<v Speaker 2>The guy was ansa himself, but he had communication with

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<v Speaker 2>the director of the CIA. The guy was in touch

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<v Speaker 2>with There's a letter with Joe Biden. Have an exclusive

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<v Speaker 2>letter here from Joe Biden putting the kibosh on a

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<v Speaker 2>Judiciary committee investigations, all that stuff. There's a ton of

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<v Speaker 2>information with Bill Hamilton. I gotta put her up there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's okay, So back to Ruther. I tell you. It's like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh home, we here got aj Werman popping out of

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<v Speaker 2>the woods. You got John Lear, and now you got

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Hamilton. Look at this. We did a whole nother

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<v Speaker 2>part two on this covert action. The covert actions called

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<v Speaker 2>labor leader Walter Ruther, who was among nineteen sixties liberal

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<v Speaker 2>leaders who appear to have been assassinated by the deep state.

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<v Speaker 2>But you don't have anything firm that the Lear had

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<v Speaker 2>access to this was he in town that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well no, but you know, in a deposition and a trial,

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<v Speaker 1>he said he worked for the CIA from nineteen sixty

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<v Speaker 1>seven to nineteen eighty three, so exactly, yeah, yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>by his own account, he's working for the CIA for

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<v Speaker 1>at least that long. And of course it's very murky

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<v Speaker 1>trying to trace his life. I mean, even in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy I can't even figure who he was working for.

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<v Speaker 1>His father fired him and disinherited him in nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 1>I believe, or seventy one, which was the same year

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<v Speaker 1>that Ruther was killed. And his father of course was

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<v Speaker 1>involved in the lawsuits around the Ruther death because it

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<v Speaker 1>was a Lyric jet and he has access to all

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<v Speaker 1>these documents that I have that were suppressed after that.

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<v Speaker 1>But he would have known what had happened. In any case,

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<v Speaker 1>John was disinherited.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it was some murkiness about that. So because

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00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:59.319
<v Speaker 2>there was some kind of a story too, he was

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<v Speaker 2>getting money from his mother. They somehow it is funny

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<v Speaker 2>because they had a very nice lifestyle in Veda, he

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<v Speaker 2>and the wife doing and some gold mine. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>who knows what was going on there. Okay, So back

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<v Speaker 2>to Ruther though, Okay, now then even any besides all

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<v Speaker 2>its okay, the swapping out of the altimeter, the swapping

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<v Speaker 2>out of the airstrip, anything else really suspicious in all this?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, first I want to mention besides, because of the

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<v Speaker 1>Weberman documents that were turned over, I was able to

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<v Speaker 1>track down a private investigator who had worked with Ruther's

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<v Speaker 1>daughter Elizabeth in the nineteen ninety She didn't have any money,

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<v Speaker 1>He did some pro bona work. He told me there

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<v Speaker 1>had been a civil suit, okay, turning this and he

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't been able to get the documents, they wouldn't give

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<v Speaker 1>him up to him. I got those documents, twelve hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and eighty six pages. Again, they very much affirm that

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<v Speaker 1>this was an assassination. Now, the NTSB, who was the

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<v Speaker 1>only one who ever did any kind of investigation eight

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<v Speaker 1>months after the crash, was prohibited from investigating sabotage. Their

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<v Speaker 1>field agent says, well, no, we don't do that. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI's job. And of course the FBI didn't do

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<v Speaker 1>an investigation, and so that leads us to the FBI

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<v Speaker 1>documents concerning Walter Ruther. I was able to get a

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<v Speaker 1>hold of a reporter for Detroit Public Television who spent

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<v Speaker 1>two years in the nineteen eighties doing a Freedom of

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<v Speaker 1>Information Act request with the FBI and Ruther. And he

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<v Speaker 1>said he told me he called them every week for

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<v Speaker 1>two years. They finally admitted to having eighty four hundred

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<v Speaker 1>pages of documents. Now most of those are withheld or redacted,

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<v Speaker 1>but he gave what he got to the Ruther Library

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<v Speaker 1>in Detroit. So I've been working with They've documents from

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy, and I've done freedom

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<v Speaker 1>of information Act requests with the FBI trying to get

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<v Speaker 1>reactions removed from documents that the field office in Detroit

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<v Speaker 1>was notified that there was a contract on Ruther in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty nine. They've got the name of the person

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<v Speaker 1>who allegedly had this contract that is redacted. They will

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<v Speaker 1>not remove that. I've spent years trying to get them

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. They did a background check on this

347
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:30.480
<v Speaker 1>person called an LHM letterhead memo. They will not release that.

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<v Speaker 1>That is still classified. They also know, we've learned just

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<v Speaker 1>this year when Trump released the JFA JFK files, that

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI and the sixties turned over the authority to

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<v Speaker 1>redact their own documents to the CIA, and they use

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<v Speaker 1>the words referred to another government agency written by the

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<v Speaker 1>reaction in the nineteen sixty seven the nineteen seventy folder

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<v Speaker 1>I have on there are seventeen pages of reactions that

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<v Speaker 1>we say refer to another government agency. These are CIA reactions.

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<v Speaker 1>We know now. I printed one of those in the book,

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<v Speaker 1>one of those with that reaction on it that they

358
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<v Speaker 1>would release to me. So there's a whole world of

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<v Speaker 1>information about what the CIA was thinking and saying about

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<v Speaker 1>Walter Ruther. That the FBI is holding So after all

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<v Speaker 1>these years, an airplane supposed accident concerning a labor leader,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've got all this stuff still reacted, and they've

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<v Speaker 1>lied to me a couple of times. And that's one thing.

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<v Speaker 1>This reporter named Bill Gallagher for the public television there

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<v Speaker 1>he said the FBI lies, and I say, they certainly

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<v Speaker 1>have lied to me concerning this.

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<v Speaker 2>Couple of thanks. Now, first of all, the civil suit,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the status of that?

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<v Speaker 1>That was settled? Well, so that's a long story too.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've worked very closely with Ruther's family, his daughter,

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<v Speaker 1>but mostly his son in law, a guy named Bruce

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<v Speaker 1>dick Meyer, has worked very closely with this on me.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was settled in nineteen seventy five. Elizabeth did

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<v Speaker 1>not remember the suit because she was not involved in

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<v Speaker 1>their will. The Ruthers, her father and mother had assigned

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<v Speaker 1>a UW official named Irving Bluestone to be the head

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<v Speaker 1>of the estate, so he was the one that filed

378
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<v Speaker 1>the suit. The suit was against the airport, so that

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00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:37.599
<v Speaker 1>was settled and she got six thousand dollars. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just devastating material on what had happened there. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>they interviewed. They deposed the airport manager and he had

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<v Speaker 1>a fifty page deposition. Well he wasn't there a very

383
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<v Speaker 1>tiny little airport. He lived nearby. There was only one

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<v Speaker 1>person at the airport that night, guy named Thomas Or,

385
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<v Speaker 1>who directed the flight to land at this sad little

386
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<v Speaker 1>runway approached, the only one that didn't have lights. When

387
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.680
<v Speaker 1>they crashed, he called somebody else besides the airport manager.

388
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<v Speaker 1>The airport manager was in charge of the fire truck,

389
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<v Speaker 1>so when he finally learned about it, he got the

390
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:23.319
<v Speaker 1>fire truck. But they've been given the wrong directions to

391
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:25.720
<v Speaker 1>where the crash was, and the whole thing burned out

392
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:30.640
<v Speaker 1>before they could get to it. The sole employee there

393
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:36.279
<v Speaker 1>that night turned on a recording device only used in emergencies.

394
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<v Speaker 1>Now there was no emergency at the time. He turned

395
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<v Speaker 1>it on and he stepped outside to watch it land,

396
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<v Speaker 1>which the airport manager said he had never seen him

397
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<v Speaker 1>do that before. Highly suspicious behavior at the airport that night.

398
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<v Speaker 1>So you know it was recorded. But you know, so

399
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<v Speaker 1>you know a lot of people tried to say, well,

400
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.839
<v Speaker 1>they are the pilot decided to land at that runway

401
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:04.559
<v Speaker 1>because of the wind. Totally untrue. It was recorded he

402
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.480
<v Speaker 1>never had any choice but to land there because those

403
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.240
<v Speaker 1>are the only lights that were on. So he circled

404
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:14.559
<v Speaker 1>around to approach that runway. So these court documents really

405
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.799
<v Speaker 1>add a lot. Now. The field agent from the NTSB

406
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.079
<v Speaker 1>who did the investigation the altimeter, he came there the

407
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<v Speaker 1>next morning, could see the top of the trees were

408
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<v Speaker 1>equipped and said, well, this is probably an altimeter problem.

409
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<v Speaker 1>Either a pilot read it wrong or it wasn't working.

410
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<v Speaker 1>Waded into the warm and still smoldering rubble and pulled

411
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<v Speaker 1>out the captain's aultimeter and took it around. He had

412
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<v Speaker 1>a three hundred and fifty page deposition about that altimeter. Again,

413
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:42.119
<v Speaker 1>some of it was using the NTSB report, some of

414
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<v Speaker 1>it was suppressed.

415
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<v Speaker 2>The you gotta love it. Then his aj comes along

416
00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:52.160
<v Speaker 2>and that does his research and comes up with everything. Now,

417
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<v Speaker 2>a couple of things. What about wouldn't it be like

418
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<v Speaker 2>the UA to w weren't they looking up in arms

419
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.359
<v Speaker 2>and saying, hey, let's investigate this scream into high heaven

420
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:02.920
<v Speaker 2>that hey, boss just got killed.

421
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.279
<v Speaker 1>Very good question, and I think that's what killed it.

422
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:12.440
<v Speaker 1>So it took that NTSB agent two weeks before he

423
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.480
<v Speaker 1>got the report from the manufacturer full of this damning

424
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:20.480
<v Speaker 1>information about the ultimeter. That same day the UAW General Council,

425
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:24.319
<v Speaker 1>a guy named Stephen Schlashberg wrote a memo to the

426
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:28.640
<v Speaker 1>guy who'd taken over Ruther after a bitter internal power fight,

427
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.519
<v Speaker 1>and said, listen, this is nothing but a tragic accident.

428
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.599
<v Speaker 1>There were no problems with the ultimeter. There's no you know,

429
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:37.559
<v Speaker 1>basically discounting sabotage.

430
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:37.720
<v Speaker 3>Now.

431
00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:40.480
<v Speaker 1>I found that memo and no one has seen that

432
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.759
<v Speaker 1>before either. I got that as a result of these

433
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Webermen files. So he convinced Woodcock there was nothing and said,

434
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.960
<v Speaker 1>don't you know, you shouldn't support a public inquest. There

435
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.119
<v Speaker 1>was a lot of talk about having a public inquest

436
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:58.400
<v Speaker 1>into that. Leonard Woodkeck, the new president, did not support

437
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:02.559
<v Speaker 1>the inquest, and that was probably the only chance to

438
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:07.839
<v Speaker 1>get a real independent investigation of what happened here. So, yeah,

439
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.759
<v Speaker 1>the UAW has a very bad history with this. It's

440
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:14.759
<v Speaker 1>hard for me after they they must they had to

441
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.240
<v Speaker 1>have seen all the documents. I have the court documents,

442
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:24.519
<v Speaker 1>the ultimeter report, and they never raised any questions. You know,

443
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Slashburg I think was at least a government intelligence asset.

444
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.400
<v Speaker 1>He became a under secretary of labor in the Reagan administration,

445
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:36.920
<v Speaker 1>so you know, he had a very crooked path after

446
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.880
<v Speaker 1>he left the UAW. But yeah, I think that the

447
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.880
<v Speaker 1>UAW not raising any flags about this really did a

448
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.079
<v Speaker 1>lot of damage to any hopes of a true investigation.

449
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.839
<v Speaker 2>And then after the death of Ruth, did the UAW

450
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.200
<v Speaker 2>change their politics and their policy? Did they go in

451
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:55.880
<v Speaker 2>a different direction?

452
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think they did. The other thing I used

453
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:03.079
<v Speaker 1>as a source a lot was oral interviews with Paul Schraid.

454
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Some people may recognize his name. He was standing next

455
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:11.240
<v Speaker 1>to RFK when he was shot killed in Los Angeles.

456
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Trade got hit by a bullet in that attack. So

457
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:19.640
<v Speaker 1>he says they drove him out of the union. As

458
00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.599
<v Speaker 1>soon as Ruther died, they forced him out and he

459
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.079
<v Speaker 1>and according to him, there was a big change in

460
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:28.160
<v Speaker 1>the way the UAW operated, you know, they said, I mean,

461
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Ruth probably had his faults as an autocrat, but he

462
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.240
<v Speaker 1>really stayed in close contact with the rank and file

463
00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>and local leaders and you know, never went for the

464
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.519
<v Speaker 1>big salaries. And yeah, I think there was a real

465
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:46.319
<v Speaker 1>change after Ruther's death in the uaw's practice and culture.

466
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Now what about reading in the article, I see James

467
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Angleton's name comes up. What house did he connected to

468
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:56.359
<v Speaker 2>all lists?

469
00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know again a lot. You know. Yet, there's

470
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:06.160
<v Speaker 1>a guy named Jay Lovestone who was a he'd been

471
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:09.279
<v Speaker 1>the General secretary of the American Communist Party in the

472
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 1>late twenties. Stalin removed him and he began by the

473
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.720
<v Speaker 1>end of the thirties. He was a bitter anti communist,

474
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:20.359
<v Speaker 1>and he worked with the first president of the UAW

475
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:23.160
<v Speaker 1>to try to drive all the communists out of UAW.

476
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:26.960
<v Speaker 1>And the ruther wasn't the communists. He was working with

477
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:31.119
<v Speaker 1>the communists and supported supported their rights to hold office

478
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:35.000
<v Speaker 1>and function in the Union. So and Lovestone was the

479
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:39.200
<v Speaker 1>one who was working with this UAW president and directing him.

480
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Lovestone went on to become the international Affairs director of

481
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:50.319
<v Speaker 1>the AFL CIO, and the Ruthers fought with him constantly

482
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:55.039
<v Speaker 1>over that. There's I go into that and in some

483
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:58.799
<v Speaker 1>detail in the book now and this has just come

484
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:03.680
<v Speaker 1>out recently few years. Lovestone was recruited into the CIA

485
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:10.000
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen fifty five by Angleton, and Lovestone's biographer said

486
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:13.640
<v Speaker 1>they had they were in daily communication for twenty years.

487
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Lovestone in Angleton and when he was in Washington, Lovestone

488
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:21.559
<v Speaker 1>State in Angleton's home, so they had a very close

489
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:29.119
<v Speaker 1>relationship and they were absolute enemies of Lovestone was absolute

490
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.559
<v Speaker 1>enemy with Ruther and Angleton was involved in this whole

491
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:38.680
<v Speaker 1>labor fight over the CIA involvement in organized labor. So

492
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>that again points to me that somebody who could had

493
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:48.279
<v Speaker 1>the ability to stage a complex assassination and a motive.

494
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've flowing through the scrolling through the article here.

495
00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Now what about the pilot? Did did his family sue

496
00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:59.160
<v Speaker 2>as well? Was there a civil suit for the pilot? I?

497
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:02.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, the only any other suits I found mentioned

498
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:09.839
<v Speaker 1>were the architect Oscar Stonerov's. There were six suits filed

499
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.440
<v Speaker 1>in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. I'm assuming that was

500
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:17.519
<v Speaker 1>by his wife, Betty Stonorov. I didn't I didn't try

501
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:20.400
<v Speaker 1>to track all those down and read those. I think

502
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:22.480
<v Speaker 1>I know who the six people she would have suit

503
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 1>would have been, But those are still there if somebody

504
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:28.160
<v Speaker 1>wants to research this further. Now, I did get in

505
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:32.960
<v Speaker 1>touch with Stonhov's one of his daughters, Angie Foster Stonorov,

506
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.440
<v Speaker 1>who you know, worked very closely with me about talking

507
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:39.279
<v Speaker 1>about the relationship and the family. This is very hard

508
00:30:39.319 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 1>on her and Elizabeth Ruth. They're about the same age

509
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.200
<v Speaker 1>in the early twenties when this happened, and they became

510
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.359
<v Speaker 1>very close. But I never heard about a suit from

511
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:50.839
<v Speaker 1>the pilot or the co pilot. But there are six

512
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:53.880
<v Speaker 1>suits sitting out there that I didn't get.

513
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay, And this happened after the death of MLK

514
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:01.519
<v Speaker 2>and after the death RFKR.

515
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, very interesting timeline here which really raised my ackles

516
00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:10.759
<v Speaker 1>when I saw that nineteen sixty eight, LBJ wants to

517
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:13.279
<v Speaker 1>run for president. He goes to the UAW and asks

518
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:16.720
<v Speaker 1>for an endorsement. They had a contentious two day board

519
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>meeting about endorsing LBJ. Ruther actually had a relationship with

520
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:26.160
<v Speaker 1>LBJ and supported LBJ. Shrede was more than new left

521
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.759
<v Speaker 1>type candidate, and the UAW fought for RFK and they

522
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.039
<v Speaker 1>fought to a sand still finally Sharede got the votes

523
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.200
<v Speaker 1>for no endorsement, which meant that everybody could just go

524
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.319
<v Speaker 1>out and endorse whoever they wanted, all the board members.

525
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:44.759
<v Speaker 1>Ten days after that, LBJ withdrew from the race. Four

526
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.960
<v Speaker 1>days after that, Martin Luther King was assassinated. A month later,

527
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:53.759
<v Speaker 1>RFK was assassinated. October that year was the first crash

528
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the Ruthers were in and a lear jet involving a

529
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>failed altimeter. It was a Dulles airport in October of

530
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.160
<v Speaker 1>sixty eight. They survived it.

531
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:06.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, yeah, okay, well now wait a second, and

532
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:08.720
<v Speaker 2>now you got it was an alternative in that one too.

533
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:15.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you know, yeah, Victor Ruther was on that

534
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:18.599
<v Speaker 1>plane too and talked about that wreck in his autobiography.

535
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.880
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, no, it's again people say I'm being speculative.

536
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:24.920
<v Speaker 1>If you're going to say this in an accident, that

537
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>is what's speculative. If you look at this closely, it's

538
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:30.720
<v Speaker 1>obviously an assassination.

539
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.559
<v Speaker 2>No, man, you're doing great work. They really are. Rob

540
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:38.279
<v Speaker 2>McKenzie dot net you can find on Facebook. And the

541
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:41.599
<v Speaker 2>two books are one is the one we're talking about

542
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.759
<v Speaker 2>right now, is the assassination of Walter Ruther, Why they

543
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.119
<v Speaker 2>did it and how we know? And then the first

544
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:53.880
<v Speaker 2>one was Algulp a US labor, the CIA and the

545
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:55.960
<v Speaker 2>cou at Ford in Mexico. But let me ask you,

546
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Rob McKenzie, you're doing all this work. There's a lot

547
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:02.000
<v Speaker 2>of work. Man, who's funding this? How are you financing

548
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.759
<v Speaker 2>all this? It's a lot of work.

549
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:06.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I'm retired, so I have the time.

550
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.559
<v Speaker 1>But after the last book, it took so much. You know,

551
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:12.160
<v Speaker 1>this is it was a big money losing project the

552
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:14.480
<v Speaker 1>first book, because you know, I wanted to get an

553
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.880
<v Speaker 1>insurance policy and I didn't. You know, I never thought

554
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:19.799
<v Speaker 1>i'd make money. I didn't want to get sued and

555
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.119
<v Speaker 1>go bankrupt. I told my wife, I will never write

556
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:25.880
<v Speaker 1>another book. I promise I will never write another book.

557
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.400
<v Speaker 1>And I probably After I got these court documents and

558
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.880
<v Speaker 1>the altimeter report and the FBI filed, I spent eight

559
00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:34.559
<v Speaker 1>months trying to find someone else to write the book.

560
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.079
<v Speaker 1>I had one publisher who kind of it was interested in.

561
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:39.359
<v Speaker 1>I said, listen, you get somebody to go to write it,

562
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:42.160
<v Speaker 1>they can have all the royalties. They couldn't find anybody,

563
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:46.119
<v Speaker 1>so I reluctantly wrote this book. I mean I actually

564
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:50.359
<v Speaker 1>wrote a article for a journal, academic journal, and they

565
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:52.079
<v Speaker 1>approved it. They said this is too long. You need

566
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 1>to expand this into a book, and just really coached

567
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.960
<v Speaker 1>me and urged me, and I finally wrote it. It's

568
00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:59.640
<v Speaker 1>a very short book for people who don't want to

569
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.079
<v Speaker 1>read a long book. A lot of pictures of the damage,

570
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:05.960
<v Speaker 1>altimeter parts and the Ruthers and very easy read. And

571
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.400
<v Speaker 1>this is my last book. I promise I'm never going

572
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:09.239
<v Speaker 1>to write another book.

573
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:12.719
<v Speaker 2>Well. Well, the thing is, though, is in my audience

574
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.079
<v Speaker 2>buys books, you know, and when you got someone like

575
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 2>this who's sticking their neck out, and you got any

576
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:20.039
<v Speaker 2>Arizona missions insures almost kind of stufs so cheap, you know,

577
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:21.719
<v Speaker 2>you got to protect your home, you know, all this

578
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff, your pension. Uh, you got to go out, audience,

579
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.719
<v Speaker 2>You got to go out and buy these books, man,

580
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:28.960
<v Speaker 2>in order to support people out there sticking their necks

581
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:32.920
<v Speaker 2>out at Elkolpe, the US Labor, the CIA, and ford

582
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.199
<v Speaker 2>it in in Mexico. And there's an whole interview about that.

583
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:39.199
<v Speaker 2>And in this one here is the assassination of Walter Ruther.

584
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Why they did it and how we know? So you

585
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:45.079
<v Speaker 2>got to get out there and buy these books now.

586
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:47.280
<v Speaker 2>And you see Amazon like the oppera import, Amazon like

587
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.519
<v Speaker 2>a little cut too, okay, But other why didn't Aj write?

588
00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:52.239
<v Speaker 2>If AJ did all this work on it, he never

589
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.599
<v Speaker 2>wrote a book? Who Aj Webman? He never wrote a

590
00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:56.079
<v Speaker 2>book on it?

591
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:02.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Oh Weberman, yeah, oh yeah, you know he wrote

592
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.760
<v Speaker 1>this is the early nineties. He wrote a long article

593
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.920
<v Speaker 1>about three different altimeters involved in crash. Now I don't

594
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.519
<v Speaker 1>want to take on more. He couldn't get published, you know,

595
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.599
<v Speaker 1>this was the days before the Internet was widely used.

596
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.920
<v Speaker 1>He couldn't get published. And just by a freak accident

597
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:21.400
<v Speaker 1>for some reason, one of these altimeters, there was a

598
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:25.159
<v Speaker 1>flight that Joe Biden was in. Slate published his article

599
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:27.559
<v Speaker 1>about that without even telling him. He hadn't known it had

600
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.920
<v Speaker 1>been published. That's where I first saw the A. J.

601
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.599
<v Speaker 1>Weberman and this information about the altimeter. And I spent

602
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:35.599
<v Speaker 1>the next two years trying to figure out some way

603
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:38.920
<v Speaker 1>to contact him until you helped me. So yeah, no,

604
00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:41.440
<v Speaker 1>I stay in touch with him a lot. You know,

605
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:44.239
<v Speaker 1>he couldn't get published. That was just the way this

606
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.400
<v Speaker 1>stuff goes a lot of times, unfortunately.

607
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he had another beef too with I think it

608
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.760
<v Speaker 2>was his book about Rudy Giuliani. One of his sources

609
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:57.400
<v Speaker 2>was that guy Lawrence Ray Sarah Lawrence Pimp.

610
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:02.719
<v Speaker 1>He w the trial for one of the modern name burglars.

611
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:05.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, oh no, yeah, I go back. I was

612
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 2>seventeen years old when I was seventeen.

613
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:14.599
<v Speaker 1>And Hangleton testified in that trial, so he got oh yeah,

614
00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:17.559
<v Speaker 1>he told me about that very interesting life. He said.

615
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:19.840
<v Speaker 2>No, A has had an incredible life, and he got

616
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:22.760
<v Speaker 2>totally banned from Amazon. They took down all of his books.

617
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:25.440
<v Speaker 2>He's been knocked off of Oh yeah, he's been knocked off.

618
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.079
<v Speaker 2>You get a different name every week, eight Alan, Jules, different,

619
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Nat Jewles Alan, you know, because he gets knocked off,

620
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:36.039
<v Speaker 2>all out of us. That's a real fighter man. He

621
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.360
<v Speaker 2>has fight for long.

622
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.599
<v Speaker 1>He did an incredible job on his own. Yeah, no

623
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:47.360
<v Speaker 1>one's financing him tracking down this ultimatear manufacturer's report on

624
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:50.360
<v Speaker 1>my head is off to him.

625
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:53.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, but I mean now you're saying, no next.

626
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:57.519
<v Speaker 1>Book, no next book. I've written some articles. I may

627
00:36:57.519 --> 00:36:59.599
<v Speaker 1>write some articles when it seizes me, but I'm not

628
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:01.559
<v Speaker 1>going to take kind of another book. There's no way.

629
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:03.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, then give us an idea. What are you working

630
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:05.840
<v Speaker 2>our next? Before you get what do you work in

631
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:07.199
<v Speaker 2>our next? We'll get into that first.

632
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:11.199
<v Speaker 1>You know, I've been writing about this idea of community

633
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:14.039
<v Speaker 1>unions and you know the current state of labor and

634
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:18.199
<v Speaker 1>what we need to do. And Wade Rathkei, the founder

635
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:21.559
<v Speaker 1>of Acorn, published an article I wrote about that in

636
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.599
<v Speaker 1>his journal called Social Policy. I've got a three thousand

637
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:29.559
<v Speaker 1>word article about the Luther assassination that's supposed to be

638
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:33.599
<v Speaker 1>coming out in a journal called Garrison. I thought I

639
00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:35.679
<v Speaker 1>was supposed to be out by now, but it's about

640
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:41.000
<v Speaker 1>a deep politics history journal. So that's that's what I'm

641
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:42.880
<v Speaker 1>working on right now. Now. You know, I'm kind of

642
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:46.000
<v Speaker 1>involved with the UAW. Elections are coming up here in

643
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:49.800
<v Speaker 1>internal UAW politics have got my interest again right now.

644
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:53.920
<v Speaker 2>That was my next question, because you come out of

645
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the UAW and a longtime union leader organizer. Are you bitter?

646
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:02.079
<v Speaker 2>Are you bitter seeing them the weakness of a US

647
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:02.960
<v Speaker 2>labor these days?

648
00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a good question, you know. You know, in

649
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.360
<v Speaker 1>some ways I am better because I do not feel

650
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:14.639
<v Speaker 1>that people the leadership has dealt with problems in a

651
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:18.280
<v Speaker 1>straightforward manner. But you know, it's more sad. I mean,

652
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:21.880
<v Speaker 1>you know how far labor has fallen and how fall

653
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.320
<v Speaker 1>our working class has fallen, and during my life. Yeah,

654
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:29.760
<v Speaker 1>so it's more sadness than bitterness really. But it just

655
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:31.920
<v Speaker 1>seems to me when things have been going so badly,

656
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.079
<v Speaker 1>we should have been doing some new things and some

657
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:39.280
<v Speaker 1>different things, and it doesn't seem to happen very often.

658
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, what's the motive. You know, all the money's on

659
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>the other side. You mentioned Acorn, you know, Acorn was

660
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:52.280
<v Speaker 2>out of Nevada and the whole attack, the attack on

661
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Acorn started with Okeith, who were talking about her off

662
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:57.400
<v Speaker 2>the air. He's the one that started, right. Project Veritas

663
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>went up to Acorn in Nevada because Acorn was the

664
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:04.000
<v Speaker 2>only people that showed up to Nevada Power and Energy

665
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:09.519
<v Speaker 2>there to protests increases, and they set up all kind

666
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:13.599
<v Speaker 2>of stablished for the elderly to get stabilization and stuff

667
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:18.199
<v Speaker 2>like that. And o'keith comes in destroys Acorn. There's no

668
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:21.360
<v Speaker 2>one left to protest against Nevada Power, and Warren Buffett

669
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:22.599
<v Speaker 2>comes in and buys Nevada Power.

670
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:25.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, yeah, No, I think Acorn was really a

671
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:29.280
<v Speaker 1>great organization and they were really afraid of it. I mean,

672
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:31.920
<v Speaker 1>that was my idea. This is what a community union

673
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:37.320
<v Speaker 1>could look like that had a little more backing and support.

674
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:39.800
<v Speaker 1>That's something that needs to be attempted again.

675
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:42.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, give us an idea, what what is your plan

676
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.639
<v Speaker 2>for a community union? What could we get behind?

677
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:50.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know there were several that they started before

678
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Ruther's death, I mean once he died, then they abandoned him.

679
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:59.119
<v Speaker 1>But there's the Watts Area Community Organization or something that

680
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 1>still survives. Ted Watkins as head of that that's still around.

681
00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:13.039
<v Speaker 1>So they organize things around like housing, education, transportation, financial irregularities,

682
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:16.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, issues that are important in the community that

683
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:21.480
<v Speaker 1>affect workers. Not every issue is affects workers at their employer.

684
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:24.639
<v Speaker 1>And so you have a situation with like seventy percent

685
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:27.920
<v Speaker 1>of people say these support unions. They're only like six

686
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:32.159
<v Speaker 1>percent of private workers are in unions. So you need

687
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:37.360
<v Speaker 1>to reach these people in their communities and organize them

688
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:41.679
<v Speaker 1>around issues that are important. I mean, affordability seems to

689
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:45.239
<v Speaker 1>be a big issue now. Well, of course, these are

690
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:48.039
<v Speaker 1>the type of issues that can be addressed in the

691
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:50.760
<v Speaker 1>community much better than they canada a single employer.

692
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:56.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, across the board, you know what I mean, like

693
00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:01.360
<v Speaker 2>general union, general strikes, the General Union. Ah boy, I

694
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:02.039
<v Speaker 2>don't know, man.

695
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:10.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's just so discouraging, you know. This is Yeah,

696
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.519
<v Speaker 4>remind us though about the first book, the ol golpe

697
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:16.320
<v Speaker 4>give us a little snops SiTime people can run out

698
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:18.639
<v Speaker 4>and get el gopa us labor, the CIA and the

699
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:19.400
<v Speaker 4>coup at Ford.

700
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:21.719
<v Speaker 2>We did a whole hour about it. So people should

701
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.639
<v Speaker 2>go back and check that out. But remind us about

702
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:25.960
<v Speaker 2>that story. What's the deal with that.

703
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:29.800
<v Speaker 1>I was working at a Ford plant and must have

704
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:37.199
<v Speaker 1>been nineteen ninety and we got involved in supporting a

705
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 1>reform movement at a Ford plant in Mexico where around

706
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:46.519
<v Speaker 1>three hundred thugs and tough guys had come in and

707
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:50.320
<v Speaker 1>started a fight with the workers in this plant. Actually

708
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:52.840
<v Speaker 1>one of them was shot and killed and nine or

709
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:56.519
<v Speaker 1>ten others were wounded, and that ended. They went on

710
00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:59.440
<v Speaker 1>strike there, occupied the plant and were on strike for

711
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:05.320
<v Speaker 1>weeks before the police finally drove them out. So I said, what,

712
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:09.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, what happened there? I didn't really understand what happened,

713
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:12.840
<v Speaker 1>what this was about, So I began researching that when

714
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:17.760
<v Speaker 1>I retired, and I believe that these three hundred dougs

715
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:21.719
<v Speaker 1>and tough guys were a CIA sponsored group that a

716
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:27.039
<v Speaker 1>gangster had organized. So I found some documents that linked

717
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:31.400
<v Speaker 1>the head of that group to the CIA. And this

718
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.679
<v Speaker 1>was all through something called the American Institute of Free

719
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Labor Development, which was really a government funded CIA managed

720
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.599
<v Speaker 1>organization that worked under the cover of the afl CIA

721
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.280
<v Speaker 1>as being a union group. And so I, you know,

722
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:51.599
<v Speaker 1>there would nothing much had been written about that, and

723
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:55.000
<v Speaker 1>I did a history of that organization, and then when

724
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:58.440
<v Speaker 1>I got in touch with some of the workers in Mexico,

725
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.239
<v Speaker 1>a researcher from the un University of Minnesota was in

726
00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:04.519
<v Speaker 1>Mexico City and helped with that, and you know, got

727
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:08.880
<v Speaker 1>their story about what happened and put the whole story

728
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:11.800
<v Speaker 1>together there about what happened in this forward plant in

729
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Mexico in nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety one.

730
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:18.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's pretty recent, in nineteen nineties, it's definitely yeah.

731
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:21.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're still alive, most of the people who were

732
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:25.559
<v Speaker 1>involved in that at that time. Yeah, yeah, very recent.

733
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:29.239
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I mean there was a government controlled union,

734
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:33.679
<v Speaker 1>the Mexican Confederation of Workers would put it mildly, was

735
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:37.960
<v Speaker 1>not susceptible to democratic reforms, and that's what this group

736
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:41.000
<v Speaker 1>was pushing in the plant there, and some of them

737
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:46.079
<v Speaker 1>were linked with a socialist group and of course AFEL

738
00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:50.440
<v Speaker 1>that's what they existed for, was to put those type

739
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.519
<v Speaker 1>of groups down and keep them out of the union.

740
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:57.119
<v Speaker 1>So there was their motive for that debacle.

741
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And we were talking about before with Growther, how

742
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:03.760
<v Speaker 2>back in those days, you know, you would need the

743
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:06.960
<v Speaker 2>CIA to run an operation like that. But today, like

744
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:10.400
<v Speaker 2>these big powerful tech bros and stuff like that. They

745
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:12.880
<v Speaker 2>got the money, they got the resources, blackwater out there.

746
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:14.559
<v Speaker 2>There's a plenty of guys out there that can pull

747
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:16.800
<v Speaker 2>those kind of things off now and they got money

748
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:20.760
<v Speaker 2>coming out of their ears. Just yeah, yeah, and spy

749
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:25.440
<v Speaker 2>on everybody, manipulate everybody, just a whole new ball game.

750
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:29.639
<v Speaker 2>You know, what do you see is more more of

751
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:33.039
<v Speaker 2>a danger that the CIA or these tech bros, these

752
00:44:33.079 --> 00:44:37.760
<v Speaker 2>these billionaires that are just have more almost more power,

753
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:38.599
<v Speaker 2>more influence in that.

754
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:42.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, these these tech boards are something to fear. I

755
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.199
<v Speaker 1>have to say. You know, they can again find their

756
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:49.400
<v Speaker 1>own private armies. But again, we don't really know how

757
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.840
<v Speaker 1>much money the CIA has either do it. And in

758
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.960
<v Speaker 1>the course of doing this, you know, I've ran in

759
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:59.280
<v Speaker 1>some people that I think they've got operations going on

760
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.440
<v Speaker 1>in the US now, the CIA, and they're not supposed to.

761
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:07.679
<v Speaker 1>But I you know, I've had a couple of experiences

762
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.559
<v Speaker 1>in the last year that things don't add up and

763
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:13.679
<v Speaker 1>there's more going on than we think. But again, you know,

764
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:21.960
<v Speaker 1>so much a merger of these billionaires and government intelligence,

765
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:25.800
<v Speaker 1>you don't know where one starts. In the other end, sometimes.

766
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. That was another one of my questions that has

767
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:33.159
<v Speaker 2>Rob mackenzie. How much repercussions have you suffered? Will you

768
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:35.119
<v Speaker 2>talked to We talked off the air a bit about

769
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:37.199
<v Speaker 2>some hacking and stuff, you know, which which.

770
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 3>I just take away is like another day nowadays. You know,

771
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.119
<v Speaker 3>coming at you, then I should have you. I'm happy,

772
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:48.199
<v Speaker 3>But you know, what do you like? What have you experienced?

773
00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:49.559
<v Speaker 3>Because you know, these are two serious books.

774
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:51.199
<v Speaker 2>Was a lot of work dealing with people like ag

775
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:52.719
<v Speaker 2>you attract a lot of attention.

776
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, too much. I suppose. I did the book

777
00:45:57.280 --> 00:46:04.880
<v Speaker 1>launch on Labor Day in Detroit and had a a zoom,

778
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:10.000
<v Speaker 1>which I was and there was a Google recording that

779
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:12.360
<v Speaker 1>she did for me, and so I was promoting that

780
00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:15.760
<v Speaker 1>on Facebook. I had decided that Facebook was the best

781
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.000
<v Speaker 1>place to reach out to workers and I was going

782
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:21.239
<v Speaker 1>to really do that. So I set up a website

783
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.159
<v Speaker 1>and so you know, they make you jump through a

784
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.599
<v Speaker 1>lot of hoops about you know, verifying yourself and you know,

785
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.400
<v Speaker 1>getting approved for social and political postings, which they said

786
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:34.119
<v Speaker 1>this was But I had about sixty thousand views after

787
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:38.079
<v Speaker 1>a couple months, and then I started posting about this

788
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:42.119
<v Speaker 1>community union thing in Ruther's thoughts on that, and my

789
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:47.719
<v Speaker 1>started getting phony charges on my account, and so I

790
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:51.199
<v Speaker 1>had to cancel my credit card and I probably spent

791
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:54.239
<v Speaker 1>two and a half hours with Meta texts trying to

792
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:57.920
<v Speaker 1>get rid of this hack in my account. I thought

793
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.519
<v Speaker 1>we'd done it, and I started posting again. Then these

794
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:04.199
<v Speaker 1>phony charges starting running up again, and then Meta just shut.

795
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.840
<v Speaker 1>My whole page just disappeared. I was gone. So it

796
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.039
<v Speaker 1>suddenly popped up a few weeks ago. I don't know

797
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.559
<v Speaker 1>if I was a past the quarantine or whatever, and

798
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:17.800
<v Speaker 1>I started again running some promotions, and the phony charges

799
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:23.960
<v Speaker 1>started showing up right again. So it gets really dark now,

800
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:26.559
<v Speaker 1>and I made some mistakes, and I don't really want

801
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:29.440
<v Speaker 1>to go on the air about how they were successful

802
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:33.400
<v Speaker 1>in hacking my account, but I have learned now how

803
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:38.559
<v Speaker 1>this stuff works with passwords and recovery codes and security codes,

804
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:42.159
<v Speaker 1>and I've got all my accounts straightened out and running properly,

805
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and I'm fairly lucky to have had that, but I

806
00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:49.519
<v Speaker 1>worked at it. And so I have a Facebook page

807
00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:54.519
<v Speaker 1>called Labor Power and History where I'm posting stuff about Ruther,

808
00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:57.880
<v Speaker 1>and that's I feel very good that that account is

809
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:02.639
<v Speaker 1>secure at this current time. I came very close to

810
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:04.199
<v Speaker 1>losing my computer and my.

811
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Phone as of this recording with Slipity Labor Power and

812
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:12.679
<v Speaker 3>History on Facebook and then otherwise Rob McKenzie dot net.

813
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:15.400
<v Speaker 2>And then the two books once again are the first

814
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:18.800
<v Speaker 2>one is El Goope Us Labor, the CIA and the

815
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:23.119
<v Speaker 2>coup at Ford in Mexico Wildcat, and then the other

816
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:25.599
<v Speaker 2>one is the assassination of Walter Ruth, Why they did

817
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:29.400
<v Speaker 2>it and how we know? Mister Rob McKenzie, we are

818
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:31.039
<v Speaker 2>just about out of time. What would you like to

819
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:31.519
<v Speaker 2>leave us with?

820
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:40.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, I again, I really this society needs worker organization,

821
00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:44.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, whether that's the traditional unions are something new.

822
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:47.760
<v Speaker 1>When things get as bad as they are now, it

823
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:52.960
<v Speaker 1>really shows the absence of organized worker political and economic power.

824
00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:56.280
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I just hope that the younger generation

825
00:48:56.599 --> 00:48:59.400
<v Speaker 1>can find some way to move that forward.

826
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, And it's in our best interest, is

827
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:06.159
<v Speaker 2>in every single worker out there, it's in our best

828
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:10.960
<v Speaker 2>interest to unite and to come together and form a

829
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:14.559
<v Speaker 2>some type of or I hate to say union, but

830
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:19.119
<v Speaker 2>form some type of cooperative corporative there with each other.

831
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:22.360
<v Speaker 2>And you see now with all this stuff with the Epstein,

832
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:26.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, everyone is united against that. You know, there's

833
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:29.760
<v Speaker 2>it's the popular opinion that very few people want to

834
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.039
<v Speaker 2>take it the other side that you think people could

835
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:35.000
<v Speaker 2>could gather around against their own self interest, you know,

836
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:39.360
<v Speaker 2>to promote their their brothers and their sisters and their children,

837
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:42.039
<v Speaker 2>and their coworkers and their neighbors.

838
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:50.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, yeah yeah, Rob McKenzie, listen, anything you have,

839
00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:51.440
<v Speaker 3>what you're working on, get us a call.

840
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:52.199
<v Speaker 2>We'll put you around on the.

841
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, thanks so much, Ed, it was nice talking with you.

842
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:58.599
<v Speaker 2>No, thank you, sir, Rob mackenzie dot net. Thank you

843
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:12.039
<v Speaker 2>so much. Good night, don't