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<v Speaker 1>While the whole in our hearts and lives will never

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<v Speaker 1>be filled. I hope that in time our family can

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<v Speaker 1>find healing. I pray that the other victim's family can

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<v Speaker 1>find some semblance of the same. I'm hopeful that all

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<v Speaker 1>the wounded are able to make a full recovery and

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<v Speaker 1>return home to their families. And finally, all the people

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<v Speaker 1>and especially the children impacted by this horrific event, are

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<v Speaker 1>able to recover mentally and find strength to live loving,

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<v Speaker 1>happy and full lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome everybody to the Ricashey Podcast, Episode number seven hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty five. I'm joined by Stephen Haywood in California

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<v Speaker 2>and Charles W. Cook in Florida, and gentlemen, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>So uh, I guess I should start with the news

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<v Speaker 2>I live. Technically, I'm on fifty first and the Annunciation

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<v Speaker 2>Church in Minneapolis is on fifty fourth, so I'm close.

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<v Speaker 2>There's the creek, the creek between us, beautiful rushing water

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<v Speaker 2>that goes down to minne Falls. Lovely neighborhood, beautiful neighborhood,

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful day, and I get to call for my sister

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<v Speaker 2>in law, who are attacks for my sister in law

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<v Speaker 2>who lives about a block away from the church that

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<v Speaker 2>there had been a mass shooting and annunciation, and she

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<v Speaker 2>goes out and talks to her neighborho had actually seen

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<v Speaker 2>the demon do it. And within seconds, it seems as

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<v Speaker 2>if every as I wrote in Ricochet, every siren in

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<v Speaker 2>the world was heading our way. This this this, this

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<v Speaker 2>chorus of whales. That was astonishing, and it was it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a bad day here. And the only thing

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<v Speaker 2>I can think of, that's that's that's apt Is nine.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know people drag that into everything, but the

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<v Speaker 2>same sense of after the event, and the and and

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<v Speaker 2>just the stunned feeling, that ghastly miasma that descends over

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<v Speaker 2>the community, and how the TV is always on. The

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<v Speaker 2>TV is your friend, It's right there, and it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>always on all the you know, all the local channels

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<v Speaker 2>were dumped their Judge Judy and when went to this

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, we all know now what it was about.

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<v Speaker 2>We all well, we we do. It seems some of

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<v Speaker 2>the authorities are still scratching their head and trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out what the motivation was. We may never know.

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<v Speaker 2>The strange thing for me was that I was getting

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<v Speaker 2>on X the identity of this guy about forty five

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<v Speaker 2>minutes before the authorities announced it. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 2>that happened. I don't know. Obviously, the ide'd the miscreant

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<v Speaker 2>right away, and the FBI was on the scene, and

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<v Speaker 2>the FBI was able to pull the stuff down from YouTube.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently there's a there's there's a protocol for this, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a there's a red phone that rings, and they know

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<v Speaker 2>it's the FBI telling him to take something down because

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<v Speaker 2>his manifesto that he'd put up was gone, but somebody

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<v Speaker 2>had scraped it and taken screenshots and put the whole

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<v Speaker 2>thing up and got the guy's identification. And I'm still

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<v Speaker 2>trying to figure out exactly how that happened. And it

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<v Speaker 2>just once again shows you how the world has changed.

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<v Speaker 2>It used to be you sit by the television and

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<v Speaker 2>wait for Walter Cronkite to break in and take off

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<v Speaker 2>his glasses and wipe his eyes and tell you something.

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<v Speaker 2>But now no, it's blasting out of that little magic

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<v Speaker 2>glass rectangle in your pocket. And what we know about

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<v Speaker 2>the guy, of course, is fascinating, not in a good way.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a look I thought for a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>into a part of the dank in cell, moist, miserable,

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<v Speaker 2>nihilistic cave in online in which so many of these

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<v Speaker 2>people dwell and a lot. I mean, if you looked

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<v Speaker 2>at what he wrote on his gun, his rifle in

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<v Speaker 2>the magazines, it was a compendium of Internet memes and

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<v Speaker 2>cliches and references. I hope a lot of people take

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<v Speaker 2>a look at that and study what it means and

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<v Speaker 2>figure out exactly what to do about guys like this,

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<v Speaker 2>because my first instinct is not demand the guns.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh. I always try to go by the seventy two

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<v Speaker 3>hour rule in these things, which is way too you

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<v Speaker 3>have some information and confirmation of things. This is one

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<v Speaker 3>case where you can set some of that aside, because,

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<v Speaker 3>first of all, James, I'm a little curious too that

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<v Speaker 3>we got photos of the guns and other information came

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<v Speaker 3>out so quickly. Maybe it was some you know, random

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<v Speaker 3>people on social media.

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<v Speaker 2>Who out No, No, I don't think so. The most

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<v Speaker 2>likely thing. I think, the most likely explanation is that

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<v Speaker 2>he set this thing to go to be to go

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<v Speaker 2>public at a certain time, and one of his mutuals

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<v Speaker 2>got a notification. Oh and when they got the notification,

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<v Speaker 2>they scraped it, downloaded it, and then sent it to

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<v Speaker 2>somebody to give themselves some distance from it. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>only thing that I can imagine that makes some sense. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to be conspiratorial about this and say

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<v Speaker 2>that it was all you know, this is all this

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<v Speaker 2>is all black rock deep state stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>Man.

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<v Speaker 2>False.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, Well, but sorry, Jay, if we can't our

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<v Speaker 3>mind back to the shooting in Nashville, what a year

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<v Speaker 3>and a half ago, also by a transgender student of

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<v Speaker 3>great trouble who had a manifesto that was actively suppressed

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<v Speaker 3>by the police and the authorities. Parts of it have

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<v Speaker 3>finally leaked out, and I thought, maybe somebody's leaking it

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<v Speaker 3>out to get ahead of the suppression effort, which is

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<v Speaker 3>point number two, which is I'm watching the media turn

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<v Speaker 3>somersaults to avoid bringing up the chosen identity of the shooter,

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<v Speaker 3>so they'll say, you know, troubled person, maybe mental illness issues.

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<v Speaker 3>NPR kept talking about they shot themselves for this person

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<v Speaker 3>used to day then pronounced I was watching NBC Nightly

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<v Speaker 3>News about it the other night, and I thought, how

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<v Speaker 3>ironic that they won't mention this at all, and yet

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<v Speaker 3>to have an ongoing segment right now in NBC ninety

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<v Speaker 3>news called the cost of denial. It's about health insurance

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<v Speaker 3>and all those problems that are not new to be

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<v Speaker 3>reported on. But I thought talk about cost of denial.

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<v Speaker 3>The media and all of our authorities are going out

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<v Speaker 3>of their way to deny that any sort of mental

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<v Speaker 3>illness and mental unbalance of this person could be in

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<v Speaker 3>any way related to his gender identity issues. Oh no,

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<v Speaker 3>we can't talk about that. That's a bigotry and hate

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<v Speaker 3>and everything else.

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<v Speaker 4>Charles, Well, I'm sorry that happens so close to you.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry it happened at all. But it sounds as

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<v Speaker 4>if it was more horring for you than I am.

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<v Speaker 2>The least important element of this story.

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<v Speaker 4>No, I know, but still, but still it's worse when

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<v Speaker 4>things happen close to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't think it's.

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<v Speaker 4>The guns either, And not only do I not think

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<v Speaker 4>it's the guns, but I think that this is an

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<v Speaker 4>irrelevant factor because even if you want it to, you

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<v Speaker 4>can't ban guns. There's hundreds of millions of them. So

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<v Speaker 4>then the question is what can you do? And I

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<v Speaker 4>never know the answer. James like, well, can.

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<v Speaker 2>You keep a guy from walking into a pond shop

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<v Speaker 2>passing the background check because he has no criminal record

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<v Speaker 2>and working out with one of these things. No, well

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<v Speaker 2>you can't if you simply say you can't do that

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<v Speaker 2>in Minneapolis. But then of course you can go to Richfield.

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<v Speaker 4>Well right, but also you can go to the black market.

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<v Speaker 4>And this guy, unfortunately, was obsessed with other school shooters.

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<v Speaker 2>He was clearly.

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<v Speaker 4>In a line of mass shooters and that's how he

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<v Speaker 4>saw himself. He'd written their names on the magazines. So

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<v Speaker 4>if you're that determined, the argument that adding friction into

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<v Speaker 4>the process it's problematic in many ways. It's a constitutional right.

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<v Speaker 4>If you do that, you also end up preventing people

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<v Speaker 4>who need guns to defend themselves from getting them and

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<v Speaker 4>so on. But the argument in favor of adding friction

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<v Speaker 4>between a gun purchaser and a gun makes sense in

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<v Speaker 4>certain circumstances from a purely practical perspective, if, for example,

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<v Speaker 4>you wish to stop somebody killing himself on a whim,

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<v Speaker 4>or if somebody is very angry and would have calmed

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<v Speaker 4>down had he not been able to get a gun,

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<v Speaker 4>that's the theory at least. But in this case, I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>you're talking about somebody who wrote a manifesto, and the

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<v Speaker 4>manifesto is crazy, and I do think we ought to

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<v Speaker 4>keep that in mind. It's crazy in so many different ways,

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<v Speaker 4>some of which touch politics. But the most crazy thing

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<v Speaker 4>about it is this bizarre, schizophrenic flipping between I want

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<v Speaker 4>to kill children. I thought that is abhorrent to almost

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<v Speaker 4>everyone in the world, and hey, Tommy, be nice to mum,

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<v Speaker 4>make sure that you do your homework.

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<v Speaker 2>What what sort.

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<v Speaker 4>Of person is concerned about the relationship between their sibling

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<v Speaker 4>and their mother but also is talking about killing children.

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<v Speaker 4>This is the part that I think is impossible to interrogate.

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<v Speaker 2>I share.

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<v Speaker 4>Steve's absolute irritation with the press because the press does

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<v Speaker 4>not take the view that I usually take left or right,

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<v Speaker 4>trans or not man or woman, that the people who

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<v Speaker 4>do this are usually crazy. The press likes to focus

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<v Speaker 4>in on details. And you can bet your asset if

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<v Speaker 4>this guy had had a Maga hat, even if every

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<v Speaker 4>other thing he had said was left wing, if he

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<v Speaker 4>had one Maga hat in his bedroom, or it would

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<v Speaker 4>have been caught in the frame or of a red

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<v Speaker 4>hat for an oil company had been caught in the

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<v Speaker 4>frame of the video, they'd have talked about it. But

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<v Speaker 4>now it's too nuanced, it's too difficult to know. So

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<v Speaker 4>what they're doing is they're systematically and selectively suppressing what

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<v Speaker 4>we are allowed to know and talk about.

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<v Speaker 2>I find that wildly annoying, even though I'm.

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<v Speaker 4>Not somebody who tends to take the view that hey,

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<v Speaker 4>somebody on the other side did this. Therefore, I think

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<v Speaker 4>that's usually useless. But the press doesn't, so we get

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<v Speaker 4>it only in one direction, and I find that furiating.

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<v Speaker 2>But they can't because the information is out there and

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<v Speaker 2>everybody's having the conversation, and there's some conversations that they

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<v Speaker 2>don't want us to have. They're just not because they

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I hate that thing den tricks that your

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<v Speaker 2>dentist doesn't want you to know. What I mean by

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<v Speaker 2>that is it's an uncomfortable conversation that exposes hypocrisies and

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<v Speaker 2>flaws in arguments and theories. And it has to do

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<v Speaker 2>with the guy's transgender identity. One. I don't think I'm

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<v Speaker 2>looking at this guy. I don't think he was on anything.

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<v Speaker 2>To be frank, I don't think he was going through

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<v Speaker 2>any medicalized transition. I just get that feeling and I

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<v Speaker 2>had that that was reiterated by a transgender advocate who

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<v Speaker 2>was in my Twitter feed, who said, you know, this

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<v Speaker 2>person was just trying on an identity. They put their

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<v Speaker 2>hair in pigtails, didn't take any drugs, didn't do any surgery,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera. So not not really a transgender person.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, oh wait, hold, hold on a second, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not what we've been told before we had been told

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<v Speaker 2>the whole basis of self ID is that one need

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<v Speaker 2>not have to go through any of these things. That

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<v Speaker 2>simply declaring oneselves to be another general is sufficient because

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<v Speaker 2>they know, because our children know, listen to the children

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<v Speaker 2>they know, and therefore everything should flip and they should

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<v Speaker 2>have all the access to the to the other sex

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<v Speaker 2>that you know that the natural born females or manles have.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's part of the Other part is is that

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<v Speaker 2>if you want red flag laws or people who have

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<v Speaker 2>manifest signs of mental instability, If you want to say no,

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<v Speaker 2>that crazy person walking into the gun shop should not

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<v Speaker 2>get a gun, what do you say about a hulking

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<v Speaker 2>man in address with pigtails and makeup? Are you allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to say, I don't believe that that person has the

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<v Speaker 2>mental stability that we generally require from people to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>to possess this, because then all of a sudden. Then

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<v Speaker 2>you're classifying their way of presenting and identifying themselves as

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<v Speaker 2>a mental instability, and we can't have that. So, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>what the whole everybody has suppressed, not suppressed, but just

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<v Speaker 2>decline to discuss the nuances that surround the whole transgender,

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<v Speaker 2>general identity, general ideology thing. They just they just state

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<v Speaker 2>what is what must be agreed upon and that we

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<v Speaker 2>must be kind and then we move on from that

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<v Speaker 2>point without every being able to discuss. But people want

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<v Speaker 2>that discussion, and online is exactly where we're having that discussion. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>other discussions to come, and that will be this we

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<v Speaker 2>are going to talk to Oh wait a minute, Wait

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<v Speaker 2>a minute, wait a minute, talk Why talk when you can,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, do something else like check your bank balance?

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<v Speaker 2>Have you done that recently? Have you? How about your investments?

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<v Speaker 2>Looked at those? Well, well, I'm sure of course the

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<v Speaker 2>answer to this will be to invest in our community,

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<v Speaker 2>invest in this, and invest in that. Whenever you hear

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<v Speaker 2>a politician use the word invest the you mean anything

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<v Speaker 2>except what invest means. But you're probably thinking, well, I

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<v Speaker 2>should invest. I like to invest. Investing is good, But

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<v Speaker 2>you got to ask yourself, are you being lined to

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<v Speaker 2>and know. They tell you to defer paying your taxes

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<v Speaker 2>by saving in a four to one k or an

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<v Speaker 2>ira because you'll retire at a lower tax bracket. If

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<v Speaker 2>that's true, where are so many retirees and the highest

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<v Speaker 2>tax bragg of their lives. Look, it's time to get

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<v Speaker 2>the truth and discover a better way to grow and

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<v Speaker 2>protect your money. Bank on Yourself. It's the proven retirement

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<v Speaker 2>hear about why well, because it gives you one guaranteed

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<v Speaker 2>plan doesn't go backwards when the markets tumble. Know your

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<v Speaker 2>principle and your growth are locked in two tax free

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<v Speaker 2>and control your money. Just go to bank on Yourself

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<v Speaker 2>dot com slash ricochet to get your free report. That's

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<v Speaker 2>bank on yourself dot com slash ricochet. Bank on yourself

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<v Speaker 2>dot com slash ricochet. And we thank beckon yourself for

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<v Speaker 2>sponsoring this the Ricaget podcast. And now we welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast Will Chamberlain, vice President for External Affairs at

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<v Speaker 2>the Edmund Brooke Foundation. He's also the senior council at

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<v Speaker 2>the Article three Project and the Internet Accountability Project. Well, welcome,

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<v Speaker 2>good to be with you. Well, of course I'd like

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<v Speaker 2>to know about the vice president for Internal Affairs. But

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<v Speaker 2>more than that, I'd like to know about the Edmund

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<v Speaker 2>Brooke Foundation. Tell us about it. It's having its fifth

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<v Speaker 2>annual National Conservatism Convention conference in DC next week. What

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<v Speaker 2>should people know about the organization?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, so it's found a boy your and Hiszzoni, the

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<v Speaker 5>author of the Virtue of Nationalism. And really if you

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<v Speaker 5>want to learn, you know precisely, like what the political

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<v Speaker 5>beliefs of the organization are. What we're trying to put forward.

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<v Speaker 5>There's a statement of principles available at the website. I think,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, it's really a conservatism that's deeply rooted in nationalism.

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<v Speaker 5>That and I think it orients itself and it finds

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<v Speaker 5>itself very much at the center of the modern right.

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<v Speaker 5>Not necessarily, you know, there's not a uniform view on

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<v Speaker 5>foreign policy, but it's more oriented towards restraint than previous

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<v Speaker 5>dominant intellectual strengths and conservatism.

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<v Speaker 6>It's also very much.

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<v Speaker 5>Focused on you know, the right of peoples to maintain

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<v Speaker 5>their sovereignty, and that's very focused on immigration. And it

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<v Speaker 5>is not certainly not you know, the orthodox kind of

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<v Speaker 5>libertarian view on economics. It you know, we're not, we're

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<v Speaker 5>very much heterodox, although I mean we're not socialists or anything.

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<v Speaker 5>But we're perfectly willing to see terrorists used judiciously, and

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<v Speaker 5>so we find ourselves very much an approval of much

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<v Speaker 5>of the Trump agenda.

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<v Speaker 2>Nationalism is one of those words. It probably gets you

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<v Speaker 2>red flagged over in Europe. Here in the States, how

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<v Speaker 2>would you regard nationalism as having the same sort of

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<v Speaker 2>bad odor that it does in the Well, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean the EU is this wonderful transnational project that's going

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<v Speaker 2>to dissolve borders and have everybody grouped into this this

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<v Speaker 2>happy union of shared ideas. And you know, America is

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<v Speaker 2>a country based on an idea, but we're also based

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<v Speaker 2>very firmly in the fact of our geographical location, the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that we are in nation. So where doesn't what

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<v Speaker 2>do you think nationhood pull nationalism polls these days?

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<v Speaker 5>I think it would pull pretty strongly. Donald Trump, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>famously said I am a nationalist and that he didn't

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<v Speaker 5>think it was a bad word, and all of a

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<v Speaker 5>sudden he's you know, he's the leader of the Republican

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<v Speaker 5>Party and the President of the United States. I think

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<v Speaker 5>it's probably popular.

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<v Speaker 3>JD.

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<v Speaker 5>Vance actually, I think described what nationalism is nationalism is

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<v Speaker 5>pretty well at last year's conference where he was a keynote.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean he said, you know, it's not We're not

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<v Speaker 5>merely just an idea. We're a common people with a

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<v Speaker 5>you know, a common history and a common future. And

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<v Speaker 5>there's there's I mean there obviously people can join that.

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<v Speaker 5>This isn't a like, this isn't blood and soil. People

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<v Speaker 5>can join that. That people, but it's more than just

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<v Speaker 5>an idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, here's our here's our Brookie and Charles Headley Cook

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<v Speaker 2>to to ask you the next question. Charles, so what

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<v Speaker 2>is not a nationalist?

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<v Speaker 4>Maybe that's a better way of looking at who do

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<v Speaker 4>you not want to be like?

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<v Speaker 5>On the right or the left? I mean, who do

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<v Speaker 5>we not want to be like on the left? I

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<v Speaker 5>mean it's pretty easy to you know, this is people,

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, the kind of people who national identity is

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<v Speaker 5>bad that we should you know, submit to a single

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<v Speaker 5>world government or some sort of globe, some sort of

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<v Speaker 5>other type of liberal imperial arrangement. And then further centrists,

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<v Speaker 5>I think the kind of the tax you know, not tacky,

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<v Speaker 5>but the sort of simplistic way to put it would

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<v Speaker 5>be the invade the world, invite the world viewpoint, which

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<v Speaker 5>is the idea that we ought, you know, that it's

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<v Speaker 5>perfectly fine for us to be, you know, have a

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<v Speaker 5>global empire where we're you know, running everything everywhere, but

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<v Speaker 5>simultaneously have no discrimination about who we admit in because hey,

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<v Speaker 5>if you just you know, say, you know, say say

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<v Speaker 5>the words of the Oath, you can be an American

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<v Speaker 5>just like everybody else. And I think it's a little

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<v Speaker 5>it's quite a bit more than that. And then I

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<v Speaker 5>think on the right, we certainly don't want to be

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<v Speaker 5>like the you know, I think truly blood and soil,

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<v Speaker 5>uh and really you know, aggressively bigoted people. I think

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<v Speaker 5>that's a really simple way, simple way to understand it.

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<v Speaker 5>But there, you know, there are there are groups on

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<v Speaker 5>the right that you know, seem to uh believe that

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<v Speaker 5>things like jewsers averting the white race, like all sorts

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<v Speaker 5>of silly nonsense like that, and that's definitely not us

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<v Speaker 5>and we we really don't have any time for it.

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<v Speaker 5>I think you know, Or himself is Israeli, and you

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<v Speaker 5>know the kind of you actually look at the conference leadership,

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<v Speaker 5>it kind of comes.

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<v Speaker 6>From all over the place.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, Anna Wellis is Polish and lives in America.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm I'm American, but of you know, like you know,

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<v Speaker 5>my dad's a Wasp, my my mom is Jewish. So

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<v Speaker 5>it's you know, there's a lot of and then there's

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<v Speaker 5>plenty of you know, Protestants and Catholics. So it's it's

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<v Speaker 5>a it's a wide it's a wide range of people

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<v Speaker 5>from different backgrounds, but it's it's a there's a deep

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<v Speaker 5>Americanism to it, and it's in you know, these are

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<v Speaker 5>people most of these people, especially on the American side,

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<v Speaker 5>are people who've been you know, been here. They aren't

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<v Speaker 5>just necessarily like recent immigrants.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.

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<v Speaker 4>I think some of the people who are very critical

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<v Speaker 4>of Trump and I have been at times, they miss

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<v Speaker 4>remember how much nationalism was in the Republican Party historically.

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<v Speaker 4>They think that there was this time there was no

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<v Speaker 4>one who's in favor of tariffs and immigration restrictionism, and

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<v Speaker 4>so it's just not true.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 4>So obviously you have your figures like Pap Buchanan, who's

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<v Speaker 4>opposed to boy for a certain portion of conservatism.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you go back to Reagan, do you see Reagan.

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<v Speaker 4>As a nationalist in some ways or is this project

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<v Speaker 4>in opposition or tension with the Reaganism.

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<v Speaker 5>I think it's a little bit of both. I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>I think our attitude towards Reagan will be some good,

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<v Speaker 5>some bad. I think we would probably look back at

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<v Speaker 5>some of Reagan's amnesty decisions as some of the you know,

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<v Speaker 5>the worst policy decisions he would have made that really

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<v Speaker 5>set us back in a number of ways. And it's

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<v Speaker 5>you know, on the other hand, obviously Reagan bringing back

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<v Speaker 5>the Republican Party as a brand and a lot of

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<v Speaker 5>nationalist ideas, and I think much of his foreign policy

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<v Speaker 5>approach was something we would broadly agree with. So it's

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<v Speaker 5>a mix of both. It's also kind of hard to criticize,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, I when when Reagan was around, when Reagan

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<v Speaker 5>was president, you know, I was three, So I'm sort

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<v Speaker 5>of I'm always a little skeptical of presentism. With regard

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<v Speaker 5>to criticizing Reagan. You have to wonder what was the

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<v Speaker 5>debate about immigration, Like what were people thinking?

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, it's quite possible that there were more prescient

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<v Speaker 5>people who were extremely critical of Reagan from the right

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<v Speaker 5>on his immigration policies. I don't really know, And so

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<v Speaker 5>I'm willing to give the man himself a bit of

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<v Speaker 5>grace on that. But I think we would look back

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<v Speaker 5>at that part of his record and say that that

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<v Speaker 5>was certainly a mistake and there needs to be a

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<v Speaker 5>corrective towards it.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, just one very great thing on that in the

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<v Speaker 4>late nineteen eighties, National Reviews to run these editorials in

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<v Speaker 4>a favorite running line when they criticized Reagan was this

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<v Speaker 4>would never have happened if Ronald Reagan was still alive.

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<v Speaker 4>Even that was some of.

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<v Speaker 2>That yeah, well, can I jump in here on that point.

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<v Speaker 3>It's Steve Hayward out in California, Will and I'll just

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<v Speaker 3>say straight out that I've been fascinated by the National

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<v Speaker 3>Conservative Project for a while. I attended the first, the

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<v Speaker 3>very first one, which was the twenty seventeen now or

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<v Speaker 3>eighteen in.

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<v Speaker 6>Washington, eighteen twenty nineteen, I think, yeah, whatever it.

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<v Speaker 3>Was, and I wanted to come to several more. There

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<v Speaker 3>was either I had a scheduled conflict or in one case,

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<v Speaker 3>I was going to come to a Miami meeting and

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<v Speaker 3>the airlines didn't cooperate, I couldn't make it, and I

421
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:13.759
<v Speaker 3>can't make it next week, unfortunately, which I'm sorry because

422
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.279
<v Speaker 3>I'm delighted to see you're giving your big Beaconsfield Prize

423
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:20.240
<v Speaker 3>to my one of my mentors, Chris Debuth, good friend,

424
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:20.799
<v Speaker 3>and so forth.

425
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.039
<v Speaker 2>At one point about the Reagan business.

426
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:26.960
<v Speaker 3>Now, of course, by the time the failure of that

427
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.160
<v Speaker 3>amnesty of eighty six eighty seven became obvious by the

428
00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.200
<v Speaker 3>mid nineties, really you know, Reagan had his Alzheimer's. But

429
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.039
<v Speaker 3>Mee told me several times, oh yeah, that was a

430
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.160
<v Speaker 3>terrible deal. We should never have done it. We believe

431
00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:43.039
<v Speaker 3>the Democrats, the Congress would and the bureaucracy would enforce

432
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:46.240
<v Speaker 3>employment verification other things that didn't happen, and said we

433
00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:46.680
<v Speaker 3>should not.

434
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.200
<v Speaker 2>So, I mean, they regretted that fairly early on.

435
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.200
<v Speaker 3>But Reagan was always something of an immigration dove, going

436
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.720
<v Speaker 3>back to his experience as California governor when you had,

437
00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.160
<v Speaker 3>you know, a guest worker program for agriculture, and okay,

438
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:03.119
<v Speaker 3>that probably worked decently anyway, but it's true, Charles Race

439
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:05.599
<v Speaker 3>is a good point. One of the things that people forget,

440
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:08.920
<v Speaker 3>including a lot of pro Reagan nostalgist who I am

441
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.319
<v Speaker 3>at least half the day, is during the eighties there

442
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:14.359
<v Speaker 3>were a lot of conservatives, and I was among him,

443
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:19.000
<v Speaker 3>who were very frustrated with Reagan over arms control, Soviet Union.

444
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Immigration was not as big, but there were some people

445
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:25.599
<v Speaker 3>and certain fiscal matters which now look very differently in retrospect.

446
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.039
<v Speaker 2>But I'm going to that. I wrote a large book

447
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:31.799
<v Speaker 2>about all that. A couple of things about.

448
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:34.839
<v Speaker 3>Well, let me do one big one is you may

449
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.880
<v Speaker 3>reference a moment ago to jd Vance last year saying

450
00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:39.920
<v Speaker 3>I forget how we put it or how you summarized it,

451
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:43.240
<v Speaker 3>but I understand what he's on about, which is well,

452
00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:45.839
<v Speaker 3>there's always been this debate about whether America is a

453
00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:50.200
<v Speaker 3>credle nation deca had our identity really for the declaration

454
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.799
<v Speaker 3>of independence, or whether we're a historical nation. And I

455
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.680
<v Speaker 3>remember Margaret Thatcher saying once that Europe is a product

456
00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.599
<v Speaker 3>of history, America is a product of philosophy, hilted toward

457
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.039
<v Speaker 3>the creedle part. And as you may know, we've been

458
00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:06.240
<v Speaker 3>having these rather bitter debates about some aspect of that

459
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:11.119
<v Speaker 3>question for decades among conservatives. I'm scratching my head thinking,

460
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.119
<v Speaker 3>why can't it be both? Why can't someone produce an

461
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:18.119
<v Speaker 3>intellectual synthesis that blends them together, which I actually think

462
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.119
<v Speaker 3>is the right answer to things. And maybe you guys

463
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:21.440
<v Speaker 3>will be the ones who come up with that in

464
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:22.279
<v Speaker 3>the fullness of time.

465
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.000
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I think I think Joram's book is I mean,

466
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.000
<v Speaker 5>he's really I think he does a good job of

467
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.920
<v Speaker 5>integrating the you know, the creedle part to an extent.

468
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:33.640
<v Speaker 5>I mean it is you know, he talks about kind

469
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:35.799
<v Speaker 5>of the nation as the sort of middle ground between

470
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.359
<v Speaker 5>the tribe and the empire, right is, you know, and

471
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.680
<v Speaker 5>it's sort of tribes unifying. He roots it in kind

472
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:44.359
<v Speaker 5>of the experience of these biblical Israel and the Bible,

473
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.759
<v Speaker 5>you know, and I think that there's something to the

474
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.319
<v Speaker 5>idea of kind of the expanding circle of loyalties. Vans

475
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.119
<v Speaker 5>also talked about this when he had that whole discussion

476
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:53.880
<v Speaker 5>about order of Morris, the idea that you know, it's

477
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.240
<v Speaker 5>like the people closest to your family you most loyalty too.

478
00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:01.279
<v Speaker 5>Then it expands and the degree of loyalty care reduces

479
00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.279
<v Speaker 5>as you expand outward in the concentric circle.

480
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:05.920
<v Speaker 2>You know.

481
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:10.400
<v Speaker 5>I think it's all it's a difficult way thing to

482
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:14.640
<v Speaker 5>balance because you have these obviously truths, right, the idea

483
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:16.519
<v Speaker 5>that we have immigrants that come in and they really

484
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:20.279
<v Speaker 5>duly truly become American. But on the other hand, simply

485
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.640
<v Speaker 5>saying the words clearly is insufficient.

486
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.799
<v Speaker 2>And when you go.

487
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:27.480
<v Speaker 5>Simply embrace the idea entirely that you're just a credal nation,

488
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:29.160
<v Speaker 5>you end up admitting a bunch of people who have

489
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.200
<v Speaker 5>no meaningful loyalty to the country. Like I could I

490
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 5>usually name specific names people, you know, it blows my

491
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.559
<v Speaker 5>mindlets around. I'm Nadi Mamdani is running for office in

492
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.319
<v Speaker 5>New York. The guy was it wasn't even a citizen

493
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:39.279
<v Speaker 5>until five years ago.

494
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:40.839
<v Speaker 6>I think that.

495
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:43.400
<v Speaker 5>You know, a guy named Oron McIntyre had a great

496
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:47.160
<v Speaker 5>epithet for this. It's a paperwork, American, like, you've signed

497
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.279
<v Speaker 5>the words, you said the oath, But do you actually

498
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.400
<v Speaker 5>agree with any of the founding principles? Does your politics

499
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.640
<v Speaker 5>resemble anything that like twenty years ago, Americans would have thought, Ah, yes,

500
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.799
<v Speaker 5>that's that's something we can recognize as an American viewpoint.

501
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:02.000
<v Speaker 6>And I look at Zora Mundani and I think, no,

502
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:02.440
<v Speaker 6>not really.

503
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, you know, I'm reminded of the story that

504
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:08.039
<v Speaker 3>maybe true told about the Battle of Bulge in World

505
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.240
<v Speaker 3>War Two, when apparently there was a unit of Germans

506
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.400
<v Speaker 3>dressed in American or British uniforms who could speak English,

507
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.079
<v Speaker 3>and what was the question you asked them to determine if

508
00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:21.119
<v Speaker 3>they were authentically not German? And the question wasn't what's

509
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:24.000
<v Speaker 3>the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence? It was

510
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.319
<v Speaker 3>something like who won the World Series last year? Something

511
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:30.240
<v Speaker 3>only an American would know, Right, So I said, I

512
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:31.960
<v Speaker 3>don't know if that story is true. He gets often

513
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.839
<v Speaker 3>told let me switch to another sort of issue that's

514
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:40.200
<v Speaker 3>almost say troublesome to me. I'm fascinated by it. But

515
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 3>and you're going to have another debate about it at

516
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:46.200
<v Speaker 3>this conference. I see from the agenda, and that's industrial policy.

517
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.400
<v Speaker 3>And here see, I wasn't three years old when Reagan

518
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:52.559
<v Speaker 3>was president. I was voted for the third time in

519
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty four when Nash Review and conservatives like me

520
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.839
<v Speaker 3>all said Walter Mondale's out of his mind calling for

521
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.680
<v Speaker 3>industrial policy and saying America needs to have destiny over

522
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:06.000
<v Speaker 3>making its microchips and computer screens and all the rest.

523
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, domestic content.

524
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:11.720
<v Speaker 3>Legislation for cars and machine tools was a big, a

525
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.000
<v Speaker 3>big and it was this was socialism, this was central planning,

526
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.680
<v Speaker 3>we all said. And now suddenly I'm hearing it from

527
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.440
<v Speaker 3>some national conservatives. I don't categorically say like we did

528
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:24.839
<v Speaker 3>in eighty four that this is socialism or central planning,

529
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:27.200
<v Speaker 3>but I'm not entirely persuaded.

530
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:27.680
<v Speaker 2>By ore and casts.

531
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:31.160
<v Speaker 3>And again I haven't made the meetings, but I haven't

532
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:33.880
<v Speaker 3>seen a lot of progress and really refining this. How

533
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:36.279
<v Speaker 3>do you make it something that we're confident will work?

534
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:38.920
<v Speaker 3>And how do you avoid all the pitfalls of red

535
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:43.319
<v Speaker 3>seeking and special interests and and simply dead weight mistakes?

536
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.119
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean it's there's a I think part of

537
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:50.640
<v Speaker 5>part of the answer to that is you have to

538
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 5>be intelligent about how you do it. And part of

539
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:53.799
<v Speaker 5>the answer to that is you have to embrace some

540
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:57.000
<v Speaker 5>amount of that as the cost of having industrial policy

541
00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:00.160
<v Speaker 5>and therefore trying to achieve the positive ends that you're

542
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:01.799
<v Speaker 5>trying to achieve. You know that there's going to be

543
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.240
<v Speaker 5>some amount of rent seeking with regard to all this.

544
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.000
<v Speaker 5>I think it's interesting to you know, I've talked with

545
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.039
<v Speaker 5>a number of kind of people, intellectual influencers my age

546
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.160
<v Speaker 5>in the conservative movement. You know, the people who grew

547
00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:15.599
<v Speaker 5>up went you know, went to high school when Bush

548
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.079
<v Speaker 5>was president, for example, and you know, we all we

549
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.599
<v Speaker 5>all had this experience. Many of us went to you know,

550
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.079
<v Speaker 5>like Conservative Fellowship type things or or you know, put

551
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:28.559
<v Speaker 5>things put on by the Coke Foundation, and we're taught

552
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:31.519
<v Speaker 5>all the free trade stuff, and and and then I

553
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:34.880
<v Speaker 5>remember having this discussion somebody were like, you know, so

554
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.400
<v Speaker 5>when somebody actually started making arguments about why that wasn't true,

555
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.720
<v Speaker 5>I realized, like I didn't really listened to the accounter arguments.

556
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:43.039
<v Speaker 5>I literally had just heard the arguments, the free trade arguments,

557
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:44.680
<v Speaker 5>and I hadn't heard any of the other arguments, and

558
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.960
<v Speaker 5>I think, you know, Rubio had an interesting speech or

559
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:49.599
<v Speaker 5>he was gonna he was just being interviewed at one

560
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.279
<v Speaker 5>point where he said during his presidential campaign, you know,

561
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.279
<v Speaker 5>he was parent, he was saying the free trade line,

562
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:57.279
<v Speaker 5>and then he visited the rust belt and said to himself,

563
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.480
<v Speaker 5>you know, there's a there's a real downside here, and

564
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:01.559
<v Speaker 5>and we have look back at NAPA and say that this,

565
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:05.400
<v Speaker 5>whatever this was, it certainly was not helpful, not good

566
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:08.000
<v Speaker 5>for these voters. And these voters are our people, the

567
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.799
<v Speaker 5>people who vote, you know, people who we want to

568
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.599
<v Speaker 5>vote Republican. So you know, I think I think there's

569
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:17.200
<v Speaker 5>two obvious angles that industrial policy makes sense on. First is,

570
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:19.720
<v Speaker 5>obviously there's a huge national security angle, which is that

571
00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:22.880
<v Speaker 5>there's a you know, having supply chains of important things

572
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:27.200
<v Speaker 5>controlled by China is very risky to our national security,

573
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.240
<v Speaker 5>and so reshoring a huge slew of manufacturing just needs

574
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:36.079
<v Speaker 5>to happen. Pharmaceuticals, important, uh, strategically important military assets, rare with.

575
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 6>Metals, you name it.

576
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:40.599
<v Speaker 5>And then the second thing is, yeah, we need to

577
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:44.720
<v Speaker 5>we can't be cavalier about the jobs of working at

578
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:47.240
<v Speaker 5>the working class Americans who vote Republican. We just can't

579
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:50.480
<v Speaker 5>be cavalier about that. Those people demoralize means, and it's

580
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:52.799
<v Speaker 5>it's self defeating to not want to make sure those

581
00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:55.920
<v Speaker 5>people are doing well. And the reason it's self defeating

582
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:57.759
<v Speaker 5>is because if they're demoralized, they don't vote.

583
00:28:57.559 --> 00:28:58.599
<v Speaker 6>In the socialists takeover.

584
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.160
<v Speaker 5>So, you know, I think that that has to be

585
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.440
<v Speaker 5>There has to be a real politic element from the

586
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.440
<v Speaker 5>right about you know, whatever whatever inefficiencies result, there has

587
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:09.480
<v Speaker 5>to be a real politic element about if if if

588
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:12.920
<v Speaker 5>our voters are not doing well, even if then then

589
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:14.839
<v Speaker 5>we're going to be in trouble and the end results

590
00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:15.960
<v Speaker 5>is going to be bad for everybody.

591
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.319
<v Speaker 3>One more then I'll turn will turn you back to

592
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:24.359
<v Speaker 3>the tender or untender mercies of James and Charles, and

593
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:27.480
<v Speaker 3>it be the other hot button or divisive question, which

594
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.039
<v Speaker 3>is foreign policy. And I see you are going to

595
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 3>have a whole panel on the United States in the

596
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.160
<v Speaker 3>Middle Eastern War, and you know, Israel and Gaza and

597
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.119
<v Speaker 3>what I from the looks of the lineup, that's going

598
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:39.079
<v Speaker 3>to be a barn burner. And so we now have,

599
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.359
<v Speaker 3>as I think, a subset of the net cons the restrainers,

600
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.119
<v Speaker 3>who I mean Dan McCarthy's a friend of mine and I,

601
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.359
<v Speaker 3>you know, I have a lot of agreement with a

602
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:50.960
<v Speaker 3>lot of what they have to say. But this looks

603
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.920
<v Speaker 3>like one of the naughtiest problems than that cons because

604
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.799
<v Speaker 3>I think the disagreements there are serious and deep and

605
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.000
<v Speaker 3>hard to harmonize.

606
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:01.359
<v Speaker 5>I think that's right. I mean, it's it's it's our

607
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.559
<v Speaker 5>biggest challenge. It's it's really the only panel I think

608
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.799
<v Speaker 5>where there's explicitly it's almost explicitly set up to have

609
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:09.559
<v Speaker 5>a really distinct clash of viewpoints.

610
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:10.400
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

611
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:12.160
<v Speaker 5>That's not necessarily the case on a lot of other

612
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.359
<v Speaker 5>panels where the participants in our movement are basically aligned.

613
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:17.640
<v Speaker 5>You know, there isn't there isn't some open borders immigration

614
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:20.880
<v Speaker 5>advocate debating somebody else on immigration, for example. But on

615
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:24.200
<v Speaker 5>the Iran strikes, you know, there were definitely are competing

616
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:26.480
<v Speaker 5>factions that would I would think of as both within

617
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.640
<v Speaker 5>the NAT content, you know, the American conservative restrainer types,

618
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:33.920
<v Speaker 5>and then more kind of actually you know, hardcore realists.

619
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:35.640
<v Speaker 5>I would say, I don't even think of it as

620
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.920
<v Speaker 5>neo conservatism. I think it is a straightforward, very pragmatic realism.

621
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.880
<v Speaker 5>That's you know, says, I mean that, you know, I

622
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.400
<v Speaker 5>personally find myself on the realist side. I think that

623
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.440
<v Speaker 5>the basic you know, I joke about trusting the plan, right,

624
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.079
<v Speaker 5>you know, borrowing all that from qan on. But I think, uh,

625
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:54.839
<v Speaker 5>there's something I could actually develop that into an entire

626
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:57.319
<v Speaker 5>theory of foreign policy approach, which is defference.

627
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:57.559
<v Speaker 6>Right.

628
00:30:57.599 --> 00:30:59.599
<v Speaker 5>I elect a guy who I think of as having

629
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.839
<v Speaker 5>sharing my general perspective, and then when he makes decisions,

630
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.119
<v Speaker 5>I assume he's making them for the in the right

631
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:08.039
<v Speaker 5>way because he has I have enough evidence of him

632
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:09.480
<v Speaker 5>viewing the world the way that I do that I

633
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.880
<v Speaker 5>assume that his decisions are rooted in the intelligence and

634
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:14.079
<v Speaker 5>makes sense. And I think those people who did that

635
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.200
<v Speaker 5>with regard to Trump and Iran, even if they were

636
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:20.279
<v Speaker 5>not inclined towards intervention, found themselves vindicated because, of course

637
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.319
<v Speaker 5>the war. You know, the strikes were very effective and

638
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:24.799
<v Speaker 5>the war wrapped up in forty eight hours.

639
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, we to get back to industrial policy versus

640
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:30.880
<v Speaker 2>a second now that you're not making interesting points there,

641
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.880
<v Speaker 2>But here's the deal. We always say nowadays, well, you know,

642
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.599
<v Speaker 2>we warned you you wouldn't like the rules when they

643
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:39.400
<v Speaker 2>were applied to you. It's something we tell the left

644
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:43.599
<v Speaker 2>because they change things. They say law fair is great,

645
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.000
<v Speaker 2>and now you know se on the other foot. The

646
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:47.480
<v Speaker 2>she's going to be on the other foot at some point.

647
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.480
<v Speaker 2>And if we start to become accustomed to and normalize

648
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:57.240
<v Speaker 2>a great deal more government and intervention in corporate policies,

649
00:31:57.839 --> 00:31:59.160
<v Speaker 2>the left is going to take that right up. They're

650
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:00.759
<v Speaker 2>not going to do it for a nationalism reason. They're

651
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:02.079
<v Speaker 2>not going to do it because of nation that. They're

652
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.640
<v Speaker 2>going to do it seemly because they want the control

653
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 2>in order to make the industries do what they want

654
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:07.720
<v Speaker 2>them to do, or to use it as a pretext

655
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:11.720
<v Speaker 2>for nationalizing them without actually having to do it or

656
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:14.640
<v Speaker 2>go through that. Is there a point where you would

657
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:19.720
<v Speaker 2>be concerned about the government's intertwining with business? Ten percent

658
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:26.319
<v Speaker 2>of Intel's okay, but fifty five you ain't. What's your

659
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:31.279
<v Speaker 2>comfort level on the amount of intervention that the the industry?

660
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.720
<v Speaker 5>There is obviously a level at which I would be uncomfortable.

661
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.359
<v Speaker 5>We're I don't think we're there really particularly close to

662
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:40.920
<v Speaker 5>there is the answer to that specific question in terms

663
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.119
<v Speaker 5>of the argument about kind of precedent setting. I have

664
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.279
<v Speaker 5>a general perspective on this sort of argument, which is

665
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.480
<v Speaker 5>that it is not it is not a productive use

666
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.200
<v Speaker 5>of time to worry about the precedents who are setting

667
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:54.680
<v Speaker 5>for Democrats when you constantly complain about them doing unprecedented

668
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:56.759
<v Speaker 5>things all the time, when they have power, they do

669
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:00.559
<v Speaker 5>unprecedented things all the time, Which means that the consequence

670
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:02.640
<v Speaker 5>of the presidency said you really should think about, is

671
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.440
<v Speaker 5>this this uniquely a precedent they would not exploit but

672
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.559
<v Speaker 5>for our having opened the door. And I don't think

673
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:10.480
<v Speaker 5>that's true at all with a guard to economic policy.

674
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:13.200
<v Speaker 5>I mean, you know, we do we criticize Biden for

675
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:17.640
<v Speaker 5>being one of the most absurdly you know, corporatist presidents. Yeah,

676
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:20.000
<v Speaker 5>I don't think that was that was not a product

677
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.000
<v Speaker 5>of Trump suddenly bringing up industrial policy again. That was

678
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.480
<v Speaker 5>a product of Biden wanting to shovel something like two

679
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:27.400
<v Speaker 5>billion out the door at the end of his presidencied

680
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:31.279
<v Speaker 5>all sorts of his political allies. So I think that

681
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:32.680
<v Speaker 5>that's that's This is a very very strong view that

682
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:34.160
<v Speaker 5>I have, at least for the regard to president. I

683
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.880
<v Speaker 5>always find the arguments about, oh, well, the Democrats might

684
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:38.720
<v Speaker 5>exploit this president. I mean, think about all the judicial

685
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:41.079
<v Speaker 5>wars the Democrats have always been the first to defect

686
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:44.240
<v Speaker 5>on every issue of consequence with regard to the judiciary,

687
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:48.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, deciding to revive the legislative filibuster for judicial

688
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.839
<v Speaker 5>nominees and then revoke it themselves, Like this is how

689
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:55.119
<v Speaker 5>Democrats operate. Jerrymandering another great example, right, the Democrats have

690
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:58.400
<v Speaker 5>been aggressively jerry mandering. So you name it, you find

691
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.359
<v Speaker 5>a place where the Democrats have always been the first movers.

692
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.720
<v Speaker 5>And I think that's that's rooted in the kind of

693
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:06.079
<v Speaker 5>basic democratic vibe in their politics, which is we are

694
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:08.159
<v Speaker 5>morally righteous, so we don't care about the rules.

695
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:09.960
<v Speaker 6>Ultimately, they're just there to be exploited.

696
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:13.280
<v Speaker 5>Uh So, I think the Republican approach and response to

697
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:16.480
<v Speaker 5>that should be, well, tit for tat. It's one you know,

698
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.239
<v Speaker 5>obviously we're going to do tit for tat. We're not

699
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:22.400
<v Speaker 5>just going to submit and uh too, just the willingness

700
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:24.599
<v Speaker 5>to say we're not going to sit here and worry

701
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:25.880
<v Speaker 5>about the president. We're just going to say is this

702
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.039
<v Speaker 5>the right thing to do for us? Like does this

703
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:30.440
<v Speaker 5>help our voters? Does this help our does this help

704
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:32.159
<v Speaker 5>our politics? If so, then we should do it. And

705
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:35.960
<v Speaker 5>you know, and worry about, like what the Democrats are

706
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:37.800
<v Speaker 5>going to do when they do it, realizing that it's

707
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.599
<v Speaker 5>not it's not a consequence of our actions.

708
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:41.119
<v Speaker 6>And in this case, well.

709
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:43.000
<v Speaker 2>My redline would be the government taking over reply Sat

710
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Company and forcing them to make Tupper Aware. I mean,

711
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:47.679
<v Speaker 2>I missed up Aware. It's a great product, but I

712
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:49.440
<v Speaker 2>think the market is spoken.

713
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.920
<v Speaker 5>To man Donnie deciding to set up state run grocery stories.

714
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.800
<v Speaker 5>I think that's all we never do. That we talk

715
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:56.159
<v Speaker 5>about talk about the silliest idea in the world. You know,

716
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:58.960
<v Speaker 5>the guy's like seeing grocery as a high margin industry

717
00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:00.760
<v Speaker 5>or something they're going to buy and bulk.

718
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, amazing new idea, Charles, you had one more before

719
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:05.639
<v Speaker 2>I do.

720
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:09.440
<v Speaker 4>What do you think is going to happen when Trump's

721
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.119
<v Speaker 4>no longer in charge? So you've got three and a

722
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:15.159
<v Speaker 4>half years and then he leaves office. Now, just for

723
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:19.039
<v Speaker 4>the sake of argument, for an intellectual exercise, I'm sure

724
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.000
<v Speaker 4>media matters will love this. Assume that he leaves office

725
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.800
<v Speaker 4>and dies peacefully the same day, so he's not a

726
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:26.599
<v Speaker 4>king maker, but he's just gone. What do you think

727
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:31.039
<v Speaker 4>happens on the right, Because Trump's obviously extremely powerful, he

728
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:35.239
<v Speaker 4>has the ability to move voters. He moves people who

729
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.840
<v Speaker 4>are devoted to him, but he also moves Median Republicans

730
00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:43.079
<v Speaker 4>from one position to another seamlessly, and that makes it

731
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:46.320
<v Speaker 4>quite difficult to tell where the Republican Party is. Where

732
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.880
<v Speaker 4>do you think it is? What do you think is

733
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.679
<v Speaker 4>going to happen? Is it going to be a grand fight?

734
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.880
<v Speaker 4>Will there be one candidate who's the old school Republican

735
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.639
<v Speaker 4>and another who's the heir to Trump? What is being

736
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.239
<v Speaker 4>an heir to Trump? Like? Are you confident? Do you

737
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.440
<v Speaker 4>think it's a complete open fight? Are we going to

738
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.760
<v Speaker 4>go when Trump's not in charge of everything?

739
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.519
<v Speaker 5>I think I think it's as about, you know, giving

740
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:10.280
<v Speaker 5>an imagine an open seat in the role of leader

741
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.719
<v Speaker 5>of the Republican Party and president's nominees open. It's going

742
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:18.280
<v Speaker 5>to be about as determined a race as we've ever had.

743
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:21.599
<v Speaker 5>It's going to be Vance. I think that it's really straightforward.

744
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:24.760
<v Speaker 5>Vance has not just he's not just the sitting vice president,

745
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:29.360
<v Speaker 5>a remarkably articulate speaker, very strong popularity ratings, and the

746
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:31.840
<v Speaker 5>sort of competitors to Vance, I mean, the most obvious

747
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.360
<v Speaker 5>one is Rubio. But I think it's just going to

748
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:35.760
<v Speaker 5>be as simple as a Vance Rubio ticket in twenty eight.

749
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.639
<v Speaker 5>I think that's really that. If it were anything but that,

750
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:42.519
<v Speaker 5>I would be quite surprised. On the Republican side, I

751
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.800
<v Speaker 5>don't think there's I think that this strategy of like

752
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:48.400
<v Speaker 5>the old school Republican has been tried and it you know,

753
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:51.440
<v Speaker 5>NICKI Haley managed to clear out everybody else in the

754
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:55.119
<v Speaker 5>lane of the sort of anti Trump or Trump's skeptical Republicans,

755
00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:59.280
<v Speaker 5>and her prize was nothing. Her prize was thirty percent

756
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:02.639
<v Speaker 5>of the Republican primary vote, and that seventy percent was

757
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.400
<v Speaker 5>going to be all Trump's. I think Vance, even in

758
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:07.880
<v Speaker 5>the absence if Trump just disappears and doesn't endorse his

759
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:11.920
<v Speaker 5>sitting vice president somehow, I think Vance represents that wing

760
00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:13.960
<v Speaker 5>of the party. I think that's the future of the party.

761
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:17.119
<v Speaker 5>And in a sense, we're in a strong position as

762
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.000
<v Speaker 5>a result. We're kind of we're kind of set in

763
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.239
<v Speaker 5>terms of we have not just the leader of the party,

764
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:23.920
<v Speaker 5>but also kind of the heir apparents waiting in line

765
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:26.519
<v Speaker 5>and the Democrats as and so there's much more message

766
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:28.840
<v Speaker 5>uniformity and less infighting. I think you're seeing a lot

767
00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.440
<v Speaker 5>of craziness in the Democratic side as a result of

768
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.239
<v Speaker 5>somebody trying to stand out, get a little more influence

769
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:36.039
<v Speaker 5>in cachet and as a result saying more and more

770
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:37.199
<v Speaker 5>radical things that kind.

771
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:39.760
<v Speaker 6>Of drag them further and further away from the median voter.

772
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Newsom is doing a wonderful job with this. The

773
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.440
<v Speaker 2>other day in the air he said that Donald Trump

774
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.119
<v Speaker 2>is just not going to have the election at twenty

775
00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:47.800
<v Speaker 2>twenty eight. He's going to figure out a way to

776
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:50.679
<v Speaker 2>cancel the elections. And you expected Newsome to say after that,

777
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:56.679
<v Speaker 2>and that's why I'm running right, Okay, all right, fine? Great?

778
00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:01.119
<v Speaker 2>So will the conference is going to be live streamed?

779
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Will people be able to find it online? What's the

780
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:04.800
<v Speaker 2>what's the website if they do?

781
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.840
<v Speaker 5>All right, so National conservatism dot org is the website.

782
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:10.800
<v Speaker 5>I don't believe there will be an active live stream,

783
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.800
<v Speaker 5>but there will be plenty of clips and videos coming out.

784
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:15.599
<v Speaker 5>You'll see them on x you'll see them on YouTube elsewhere.

785
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:17.639
<v Speaker 5>But we just don't we don't do an immediate live

786
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:20.440
<v Speaker 5>stream that you can just live watch it. The way

787
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:23.119
<v Speaker 5>to watch it live is to attend, which is in Washington,

788
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:26.480
<v Speaker 5>d C. On September second to fourth, that's next week

789
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:29.360
<v Speaker 5>starting next Tuesday. There are tickets. It's an awesome conference.

790
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.280
<v Speaker 5>I mean I've been going every year well before I

791
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:35.280
<v Speaker 5>actually became joined the organization running the conference. It's been

792
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:38.159
<v Speaker 5>them the best conference on the right from the word

793
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.559
<v Speaker 5>go in terms of really yeah, well, you know, extremely

794
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:42.920
<v Speaker 5>intellectually dynamic.

795
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Washington, DC. All that violence and carjacking. Oh wait, not anymore.

796
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.039
<v Speaker 2>I know somebody. If somebody asked me in Minneapolis whether

797
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:52.719
<v Speaker 2>or not I would be, well, how would you feel

798
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:54.360
<v Speaker 2>about the National Guard in your corner? And I thought

799
00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:59.280
<v Speaker 2>I would love It would have been great if they've

800
00:38:59.320 --> 00:39:01.519
<v Speaker 2>been there when I was Guyja karjacked in my driveway,

801
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:03.599
<v Speaker 2>and I love to see it when they drop by

802
00:39:03.639 --> 00:39:05.519
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty after the city went up and play.

803
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:07.320
<v Speaker 2>So yes, I can see an instance in which they

804
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.639
<v Speaker 2>are useful. Will Chamberlain, thank you very much and good

805
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:12.920
<v Speaker 2>luck with the conference, and we'll have you on again

806
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.480
<v Speaker 2>to talk about the Article three project and what that

807
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:18.519
<v Speaker 2>means for the future of American politics. Good to see you,

808
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for dropping back.

809
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.920
<v Speaker 3>Can I just add before you go, Will, but some

810
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.239
<v Speaker 3>we haven't met in person, which is regret because I

811
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:27.639
<v Speaker 3>want to shook hands with Wilt Chamberlain.

812
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:29.760
<v Speaker 2>My hand.

813
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:32.239
<v Speaker 3>No, and I want to shake hands with Will Chamberlain

814
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:34.880
<v Speaker 3>just to keep my w Chamberlain's.

815
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:35.239
<v Speaker 2>In all in one place.

816
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:36.400
<v Speaker 6>Wonderful.

817
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:40.159
<v Speaker 2>Thanks wells for having me, guys, Bye bye. Of course

818
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:43.599
<v Speaker 2>there's Richard Chamberlain, Dick. We don't want to share. So

819
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Ricochet is many things, and it's you know, it's such

820
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.000
<v Speaker 2>as politics. If you ever go there, and if you're

821
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:51.360
<v Speaker 2>a member and you go to the member of you

822
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:54.880
<v Speaker 2>know that we discuss all matter of things, religion and arts.

823
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:57.840
<v Speaker 2>We have wonderful threads on television and not just the

824
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.519
<v Speaker 2>oh I remember that show, but I mean really insightsive

825
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:02.800
<v Speaker 2>things from people who know their business. It's great fun.

826
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:09.280
<v Speaker 2>But there's also sports, and you're thinking, oh man sports, Yeah, yeah,

827
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:12.480
<v Speaker 2>because it's a big part of America football. It is.

828
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:16.000
<v Speaker 2>And I'm here with a man with a vastly inferior

829
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:19.400
<v Speaker 2>team to my own Vikings Charles, why don't you tell

830
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.840
<v Speaker 2>us about the fantasy football that's going on right now

831
00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:23.599
<v Speaker 2>at Ricochet.

832
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:26.719
<v Speaker 4>But you know, I'm actually, in a perverse sense routing

833
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 4>for the Vikings, or at least the Vikings offense, because

834
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:35.199
<v Speaker 4>I am a Justin Jefferson fan, and my seven year

835
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:37.519
<v Speaker 4>old is playing fantasy football this year. It's his first

836
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.960
<v Speaker 4>journey has Justin Jefferson, so on his behalf or have

837
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:48.239
<v Speaker 4>good Vikings too well. The Ricochet Fantasy Football Extravaganza has returned.

838
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 4>Last one was twenty twenty four, and this one's shockingly

839
00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:54.960
<v Speaker 4>is twenty twenty five. You have a few hours still

840
00:40:55.079 --> 00:41:01.039
<v Speaker 4>to sign up. The draft is tomorrow, and if you

841
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 4>win your league, and we'll put together as many leagues

842
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:06.360
<v Speaker 4>as we need depending on how many people sign up,

843
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:09.679
<v Speaker 4>you will not just win the affection and admiration of

844
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:12.760
<v Speaker 4>all of us, but fifty dollars. So you have fifty

845
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.800
<v Speaker 4>dollars and the affection and admiration of all of us.

846
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:19.320
<v Speaker 4>If you go to the homepage on Ricochet and you

847
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:23.320
<v Speaker 4>look on the right, you'll see a little link looks

848
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:26.480
<v Speaker 4>like a football and you can click it. Follow the instructions,

849
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:30.599
<v Speaker 4>sign up, be in tomorrow, and then have five long

850
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 4>months of joy and heartbreak.

851
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, well join heartbreak those two attributes of a Vikings

852
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:42.599
<v Speaker 2>fan that we know quite well. Yeah. Go to rocchet

853
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:44.719
<v Speaker 2>check it out and also notice the subtle little changes.

854
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.599
<v Speaker 2>There have been many subtle little changes, including the time face,

855
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:51.639
<v Speaker 2>the headline, time face, and the rest of which all

856
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.559
<v Speaker 2>part of what Charles does behind the scenes, tinkering and

857
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:59.760
<v Speaker 2>adjusting and getting out his code Scalpel and doing his work.

858
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.840
<v Speaker 2>More to come on Ricochet, of course, but what's there already,

859
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.119
<v Speaker 2>it's pretty darn great. I had a conversation, of course,

860
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.079
<v Speaker 2>in the Sight about flag burning executive order. So there

861
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Speaker 2>are two, there are two ideas, and this one. People

862
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:13.519
<v Speaker 2>are saying, well, this is absolutely ridiculous. Some of this

863
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 2>is a matter of free speech. And then there were

864
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:18.320
<v Speaker 2>those who said, actually, know this is this is a

865
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:21.400
<v Speaker 2>clever little trap by Trump because he's not really changing

866
00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:24.079
<v Speaker 2>anything at all, and he's just making people go out

867
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and burn flags to look silly. And an American I

868
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:32.159
<v Speaker 2>didn't think it was something we particularly needed. But where

869
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:33.159
<v Speaker 2>do you guys stand on it?

870
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:39.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, if you actually read the executive order, it's

871
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:42.440
<v Speaker 3>fairly narrow and tries to conform with the existing Supreme

872
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.679
<v Speaker 3>Court President and say and connected to incitement for violence

873
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.119
<v Speaker 3>or rioting, which may be a reach, I mean that

874
00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:50.920
<v Speaker 3>may not stand up legally. I do remember Ronald Reagan

875
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:53.760
<v Speaker 3>when he was governor again around nineteen seventy. How do

876
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:57.119
<v Speaker 3>we get the kids, how do we get the left

877
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.360
<v Speaker 3>to stop burning the flag, Well, why don't we subject

878
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:02.800
<v Speaker 3>him to our antie air pollution regulations. And that'd be

879
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:05.199
<v Speaker 3>one thing that Trump could propose to the EPA that

880
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:08.239
<v Speaker 3>the liberals would oppose. They're all up in arms about

881
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:12.800
<v Speaker 3>Trump and his EPA changes. But I think the real

882
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.039
<v Speaker 3>trapier James is not that the left is going to

883
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:16.440
<v Speaker 3>go out by the way. I think I've seen some

884
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:18.960
<v Speaker 3>things online and some leftist groups are calling for some

885
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:22.519
<v Speaker 3>flag burning beings this weekend, so that part is working.

886
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:26.719
<v Speaker 3>But I mean two thoughts. One is, you know, I

887
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:29.400
<v Speaker 3>believe and Charles may disagree with me about this, we'll see.

888
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:32.880
<v Speaker 3>I still think those flag burning cases were wrongly decided

889
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:35.280
<v Speaker 3>low those many years ago, and I'm not sure the

890
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.199
<v Speaker 3>current court would not rule differently. Remember those were five

891
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:43.239
<v Speaker 3>to four cases. And the reason for this is it's

892
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:45.079
<v Speaker 3>a long story. And so I'll just say in one sentence,

893
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:47.880
<v Speaker 3>I've always thought our First Amendment jurisprudence went off the

894
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:52.000
<v Speaker 3>rails when it said free expression was the same as

895
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:55.400
<v Speaker 3>free speech, and that applies to not just flag burning,

896
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:57.440
<v Speaker 3>but you know, naked dancing and things of that kind

897
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.239
<v Speaker 3>of pornography and all the rest of that has gone

898
00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:01.920
<v Speaker 3>along for such a long time. However, it seems to

899
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:03.880
<v Speaker 3>me that the right remedy, and here I bet Charles

900
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.320
<v Speaker 3>will agree with me, is Republicans should propose a constitutional

901
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.480
<v Speaker 3>amendment to ban flag burning. And then let's see how

902
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:13.800
<v Speaker 3>many Democrats want to vote in favor of permitting flagburning

903
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.880
<v Speaker 3>to continue by opposing the amendment. That would be fun too.

904
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:21.119
<v Speaker 4>All right, I'm going to be this quiesh.

905
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:22.239
<v Speaker 2>It's my role today.

906
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.159
<v Speaker 4>I'm aware that I'm on the wrong side of the

907
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.679
<v Speaker 4>public on this question. I do think a lot of

908
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:32.480
<v Speaker 4>people who think those cases were rightly decided. I'm one

909
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:37.239
<v Speaker 4>of those people need to understand that their position is unpopular.

910
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:39.360
<v Speaker 4>I don't see any acknowledgement of this in the press,

911
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:41.199
<v Speaker 4>and I think that has informed some of the coverage

912
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:43.360
<v Speaker 4>of Trump because they don't understand it.

913
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:44.559
<v Speaker 2>This is a wage issue.

914
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:50.719
<v Speaker 4>But first off, I think those cases were right. I

915
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:55.519
<v Speaker 4>agree with you, Stev actually about the expression question. I

916
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.400
<v Speaker 4>do think this is a tough one as well. When

917
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:00.679
<v Speaker 4>the First Amendment was written, of course, it only applied

918
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.480
<v Speaker 4>to the federal government, so you have to go through

919
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:07.719
<v Speaker 4>an enormous amount of law to get to the application

920
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:11.000
<v Speaker 4>of the First Amendment to the states, and of course,

921
00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:15.039
<v Speaker 4>in the original Constitution there is no enumerated power that

922
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:17.960
<v Speaker 4>would allow the federal government to prosecute flag burning at all,

923
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.440
<v Speaker 4>so it wouldn't have come up. So it's quite difficult

924
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 4>to discern what the original public meaning was in this area.

925
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:29.119
<v Speaker 4>But I think given that enormous numbers of Americans during

926
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:33.800
<v Speaker 4>the Alien Tedition Acts burned John Jay and effigy, there

927
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:39.360
<v Speaker 4>was a tradition of burning even effigies of people to

928
00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:43.199
<v Speaker 4>protest government policy, even on war, which was where the

929
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:47.000
<v Speaker 4>government was strictest in the colonial and post colonial eras,

930
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.159
<v Speaker 4>so I think the case was just about right. More

931
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:52.519
<v Speaker 4>than that, though, this is why I say I'm a squish.

932
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.880
<v Speaker 4>I loath people have burned the American flag, and I

933
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:00.519
<v Speaker 4>would never do it myself. Very proud immigrant, but I

934
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:05.400
<v Speaker 4>do think that passing laws that empower the national government

935
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.400
<v Speaker 4>to prosecute people for burning flags is ultimately a sign

936
00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:11.519
<v Speaker 4>of under confidence, and an unnecessary one given the way

937
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.679
<v Speaker 4>in which Americans revere the flag and do so organically

938
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:21.000
<v Speaker 4>without legal mandate. We know who the people we hate are.

939
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:26.280
<v Speaker 4>They're the people you just mentioned respond to Trump's order

940
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.079
<v Speaker 4>by going out and burning flags. Those people suck. I

941
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:33.920
<v Speaker 4>quite like the fact that they have this way of

942
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:37.360
<v Speaker 4>segregating themselves from the rest of us by doing stupid things,

943
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.119
<v Speaker 4>and I think to try to use the force of

944
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:41.199
<v Speaker 4>law to stop them doing it, to me is a

945
00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:45.039
<v Speaker 4>sign of civilizational under confidence. It's just unnecessary. I don't think,

946
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 4>as some people have said, that we would lose something

947
00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:50.840
<v Speaker 4>as a society people couldn't burn flags. I don't think

948
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:53.559
<v Speaker 4>that it is valuable speech. It's also not debate. It's

949
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:58.000
<v Speaker 4>not a marketplace of ideas question. But I am ultimately

950
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:01.119
<v Speaker 4>of the view that America and it's lag can stand

951
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.559
<v Speaker 4>without government force, and it would be fine if there

952
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.599
<v Speaker 4>was an amendment that's the right way to do it. It

953
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 4>will be fine. Off the Court overturned that. It's not

954
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:13.400
<v Speaker 4>a core case, but it's just not something that I

955
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:16.760
<v Speaker 4>particularly worry about on the amendments. The order itself that

956
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:21.039
<v Speaker 4>Trump wrote, it's very odd because on the one hand,

957
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:24.199
<v Speaker 4>it seems to completely acknowledge all of the Supreme Court cases.

958
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:30.320
<v Speaker 4>On the other hand, it is potentially a problem because

959
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:33.400
<v Speaker 4>he implies in it that he's going to start using

960
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:36.400
<v Speaker 4>whether one burned a flag as the gateway to look

961
00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:42.199
<v Speaker 4>into other crimes, and that might have under current jurisprudence

962
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.679
<v Speaker 4>that might have some issues.

963
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Right.

964
00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:47.679
<v Speaker 4>You can't, for example, say well, we can't prosecute you

965
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:50.760
<v Speaker 4>for your political opinions, but we can see what crimes

966
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.679
<v Speaker 4>you're committing while expressing them. If you only look into

967
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:56.400
<v Speaker 4>those people, then you fall a foul of the law.

968
00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:59.280
<v Speaker 4>So if that is how it's enforced, maybe problematic, But

969
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.239
<v Speaker 4>I actually think it and do anything. I think Trump

970
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:03.280
<v Speaker 4>wants to be seen to be doing this rather than

971
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:05.840
<v Speaker 4>actually violating the constitutional mandate.

972
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:08.239
<v Speaker 2>I want to pick and choose. I agree with Steven

973
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:10.800
<v Speaker 2>that the shift from speech to expression did open up

974
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:13.480
<v Speaker 2>a Pandora's box that said, I'm not willing to close

975
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:16.039
<v Speaker 2>it because there are things of expressions that our speech.

976
00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:18.320
<v Speaker 2>And I sided mostly with Charles on this one too.

977
00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:21.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean to spend all the time and energy on

978
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:25.159
<v Speaker 2>a constitutional amendment. I think those should be rare and necessary,

979
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:27.000
<v Speaker 2>and I've got a few others i'd like to see

980
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:29.559
<v Speaker 2>cuta before that one. But a person burning a flag

981
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:33.320
<v Speaker 2>tells you everything about them at that point in time.

982
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:35.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't want the government to tell me that I

983
00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:39.480
<v Speaker 2>cannot burn any emblem of authority, idea, creed, etc. Whatever.

984
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:41.760
<v Speaker 2>If I want to be that jerk. Then then I'm

985
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:44.199
<v Speaker 2>going to be that jerk, and it's not their role

986
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:46.280
<v Speaker 2>to tell me that I can't. And he asked everybody saying, yeah,

987
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:47.679
<v Speaker 2>you can burn in the backyard if you want. I

988
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:50.159
<v Speaker 2>get that. I get that, And yes, it is incitement,

989
00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:53.400
<v Speaker 2>and if maybe perhaps an executive order that says that

990
00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:57.519
<v Speaker 2>if anybody is incited by the sight of a burning

991
00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:00.880
<v Speaker 2>flag and therefore stamps the fire out and in the

992
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.760
<v Speaker 2>process does the same to the person holding it. I mean, sorry,

993
00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:06.199
<v Speaker 2>he was just in the way as I was stamping

994
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:09.960
<v Speaker 2>out the fire. It's it's it's not a it's not

995
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:12.480
<v Speaker 2>a big burning issue. Sorry, I didn't mean to say that.

996
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:16.280
<v Speaker 2>What is. However, probably this was strike some people as

997
00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:22.320
<v Speaker 2>proof of my madness, seedlectivity and efeat sensibilities. But I was,

998
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:24.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, strugging my shoulders at the burning of the flag.

999
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.280
<v Speaker 2>But I got really excited about the executive order that

1000
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:32.880
<v Speaker 2>mandated the Federal Classical style of buildings. This is something

1001
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:35.159
<v Speaker 2>that trun tried to do in the first administration, and

1002
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I and Biden overturned it. And the thing is, you know,

1003
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:41.320
<v Speaker 2>having a conversation just the other night about this about

1004
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:44.639
<v Speaker 2>how architecture sort of broke the social compact with people

1005
00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:48.360
<v Speaker 2>after the war, and we developed these these increasingly inhuman

1006
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:51.280
<v Speaker 2>scale buildings and styles. It's better now. It's not as

1007
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:53.920
<v Speaker 2>bad as it was in the seventies when it was really,

1008
00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:56.840
<v Speaker 2>really bad. Somebody had a beautiful Twitter throw it the

1009
00:49:56.840 --> 00:49:58.519
<v Speaker 2>other day where they said, you know, this is my

1010
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:02.519
<v Speaker 2>one strange architec actual preference. I will die on this hill,

1011
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and that is brutalism with lots of vegetation. And he

1012
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:09.119
<v Speaker 2>had a point that when you actually drape these things

1013
00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:11.760
<v Speaker 2>in jungles, there's a certain certain power and beauty to it.

1014
00:50:11.800 --> 00:50:15.000
<v Speaker 2>But I prefer that they weren't there at all. The

1015
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:18.119
<v Speaker 2>best example would seem to me to be the thumb

1016
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:21.880
<v Speaker 2>that is Obama's library, which looms over this neighborhood like

1017
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:24.239
<v Speaker 2>some soul sucking machine that's been dropped out by the

1018
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:30.000
<v Speaker 2>necromancers in orbit. It's a ghastly thing. And I this

1019
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:33.039
<v Speaker 2>probably would not have been affected by that. But yeah,

1020
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.199
<v Speaker 2>when they're putting something small in a little town, a

1021
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:37.719
<v Speaker 2>little post office, one of those embassies of the empire,

1022
00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:39.960
<v Speaker 2>and that reaches into the small corner, don't just put

1023
00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:43.719
<v Speaker 2>up a ball, you know, dull brick international style whatever, boy,

1024
00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.760
<v Speaker 2>give it some grace, even if the columns aren't true,

1025
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:50.280
<v Speaker 2>even if they're just pilasters, and it looks like some

1026
00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:53.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, in nineteen thirty stripped down government. F you know,

1027
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:57.599
<v Speaker 2>a modern style that's better than something that's just been

1028
00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:01.280
<v Speaker 2>snipped and disconnected from human history. So that's I'm okay

1029
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:04.960
<v Speaker 2>with that. There really am you, guys, James.

1030
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:08.400
<v Speaker 4>You know what I find really weird. I remember Trump

1031
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:11.559
<v Speaker 4>doing this in his first term. I did a whole

1032
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:15.000
<v Speaker 4>podcast with a guy who is obsessed with his topic.

1033
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Justin Schuber. How is that the guy?

1034
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1035
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:20.039
<v Speaker 4>I think he was on the Ricorchet podcast too, Is

1036
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:21.159
<v Speaker 4>he probably?

1037
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:21.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1038
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I hope so ye.

1039
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:28.400
<v Speaker 4>And I'm still baffled by the contention that I hear

1040
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:33.320
<v Speaker 4>from progressives that classical architecture is fascist but brutalist architecture

1041
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:43.079
<v Speaker 4>is democratic because classical architecture comes from Greece, and the

1042
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:47.760
<v Speaker 4>early Republic in the United States based its capital on

1043
00:51:48.039 --> 00:51:54.079
<v Speaker 4>it for a reason, and brutalist architecture has mostly been

1044
00:51:54.159 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 4>the preserve of the worst regimes in history, and building

1045
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:02.960
<v Speaker 4>for the masses, not building for the masses, is sometimes necessary.

1046
00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:06.280
<v Speaker 4>I don't think it's inherently fascistic or anything. But it's

1047
00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:10.719
<v Speaker 4>not individualistic to put up concrete blocks. So how can

1048
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:13.519
<v Speaker 4>they say that that is the complete opposite of the truth.

1049
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:14.679
<v Speaker 4>Where do they get that idea?

1050
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:18.039
<v Speaker 3>Well, Charlie, you put your finger on a key point

1051
00:52:18.039 --> 00:52:21.119
<v Speaker 3>that really does not get much public recognition. I was

1052
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:23.960
<v Speaker 3>also stunned at the reaction of you might say, modernist

1053
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.679
<v Speaker 3>architects to Trump's first term directives to build in the

1054
00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:27.480
<v Speaker 3>federal style.

1055
00:52:28.039 --> 00:52:28.599
<v Speaker 2>And they like to.

1056
00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:31.320
<v Speaker 3>And by the way, Jane, it's not just the seventies architecture,

1057
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:33.920
<v Speaker 3>but some recent big federal courthouses.

1058
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:35.719
<v Speaker 2>Which have huge projects are just awful.

1059
00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:40.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes, And I mean I do think that, you know,

1060
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:43.639
<v Speaker 3>the architecture not just people prefer efficiency or you know,

1061
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:47.280
<v Speaker 3>they're trying to unleash their interflank brank wade right or something.

1062
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:49.880
<v Speaker 3>I think that as part of the cultural rot we

1063
00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:52.480
<v Speaker 3>see in the humanities and social sciences and so many

1064
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:56.280
<v Speaker 3>other places. I never perceived that. But justin Schubacht, maybe

1065
00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:58.719
<v Speaker 3>we should have him back again. He's in the middle

1066
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:02.239
<v Speaker 3>of all this with the Trump administry. He really opened

1067
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:04.400
<v Speaker 3>my eyes to the fact that this is not just

1068
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:08.039
<v Speaker 3>a matter of architectural taste. It's actually a deeper, more

1069
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:10.960
<v Speaker 3>significant aspect of our culture war right.

1070
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:13.199
<v Speaker 2>What they're doing is they're severing the public sphere from

1071
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:16.679
<v Speaker 2>any relationship to something that went before you know, you could.

1072
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:18.679
<v Speaker 2>The point was made that if you looked at the

1073
00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:20.639
<v Speaker 2>cities of England after the war, you would think that

1074
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:23.000
<v Speaker 2>they'd been bombed, but no, they've been leveled by actual

1075
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:26.119
<v Speaker 2>by the council to build something that was anti human.

1076
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.800
<v Speaker 2>The deliberate desire to take people and sever the relationship

1077
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:33.639
<v Speaker 2>between the forms of the past is seen as a

1078
00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:35.920
<v Speaker 2>way of bringing about this better world, because the old

1079
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:37.920
<v Speaker 2>world was what do we get from the old world?

1080
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.280
<v Speaker 2>We got World War One, we got destruction, we got devastation.

1081
00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:44.599
<v Speaker 2>They associated with Western culture, which is white, which is

1082
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:47.400
<v Speaker 2>all of these things that have brought such unending misery

1083
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:49.440
<v Speaker 2>to the world. So if you are one of those

1084
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.239
<v Speaker 2>people who has, you know, a marble statue in your

1085
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Twitter profile, well, first of all, you're probably a guy

1086
00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:59.039
<v Speaker 2>in India somewhere who's doing a bot farm. But if

1087
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:01.119
<v Speaker 2>you're one of those people who wants to return to

1088
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:04.239
<v Speaker 2>certain sets of values, they see this as all right

1089
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:07.880
<v Speaker 2>wing coded dog whistle hh eight eight Here comes, you know,

1090
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:11.400
<v Speaker 2>here comes the most horrible form of nationalism, violence and

1091
00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:15.599
<v Speaker 2>ethnic supremacy. You can imagine when no, we just it's beautiful.

1092
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:18.719
<v Speaker 2>It's beautiful and it's of our and we respond to

1093
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:22.960
<v Speaker 2>it in ways that go deep. So, yeah, what are

1094
00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:28.880
<v Speaker 2>we doing this show today? Nationalism and old and classical

1095
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:32.320
<v Speaker 2>architecture ideas that used to be mainstream in the old days,

1096
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:34.400
<v Speaker 2>but now apparently patrias is way out there. So I'm

1097
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:36.920
<v Speaker 2>pretty sure we're gonna get taken down it by YouTube

1098
00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:39.000
<v Speaker 2>and Twitter before the day is out. But if you

1099
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:41.159
<v Speaker 2>found yourself listening to this, we thank you for that.

1100
00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:43.599
<v Speaker 2>If you found yourself thinking, hey, bank on yourself, I

1101
00:54:43.599 --> 00:54:46.280
<v Speaker 2>had to check that out. Do so support us by

1102
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:48.760
<v Speaker 2>becoming part of the best part of the You know

1103
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.599
<v Speaker 2>you can be you. You can be the best part of

1104
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Ricochet if you just go there and sign up. Take

1105
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:55.360
<v Speaker 2>a minute to give us a five star review on

1106
00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts if you would, and then send me proof

1107
00:54:58.320 --> 00:54:59.840
<v Speaker 2>of it in the form of a screenshot, and I

1108
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.639
<v Speaker 2>will give you. I got a coffee canyon for pennies

1109
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:06.199
<v Speaker 2>here that I have to take to the store and

1110
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:08.960
<v Speaker 2>pull down and poured down the coin stars apout. But

1111
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:11.760
<v Speaker 2>if you do that, you get all the pennies. I'm

1112
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:14.039
<v Speaker 2>kidding this opera is not legally binding. I should shut

1113
00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:15.960
<v Speaker 2>up before I get us in more trouble. Charles been

1114
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:18.840
<v Speaker 2>a pleasure, Stephen as always, and hey everybody, we'll see

1115
00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:21.199
<v Speaker 2>you in the comments. At Rik Aschet, what is it now?

1116
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:22.440
<v Speaker 2>What is the version?

1117
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:24.800
<v Speaker 4>I think it's four point fourteen point.

1118
00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:29.079
<v Speaker 2>Two, four point fourteen point two and actually right four

1119
00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:33.039
<v Speaker 2>point fourteen point two b by the time this is up.

1120
00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Thank you everybody, See you next week. Bye bye,