WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>We live in a world of strong opinions, some good,

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<v Speaker 1>some bad, and some extreme. Sometimes those opinions become so

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<v Speaker 1>extreme that individuals decide to take things into their own

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<v Speaker 1>hands to try and change the world around us to

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<v Speaker 1>reflect it for their own views. That is exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>happened in Snowtown when someone decided certain individuals were no

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<v Speaker 1>longer worthy of living. Warning. The following podcast contains graphic

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<v Speaker 1>content and material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion

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<v Speaker 1>is advised. Hey, how's it going.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to

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<v Speaker 2>Wicked and.

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<v Speaker 1>Grim, a true crime podcast, and we're coming up on

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<v Speaker 1>Halloween real quick. Who's excited for two weeks away? Ish? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty much?

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty much?

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<v Speaker 1>As we're recording, it's the tenth, so that leaves us

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<v Speaker 1>with twenty one days until well that's so that's three

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<v Speaker 1>weeks technically.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh we're that far away? Where are we?

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<v Speaker 1>I guess?

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<v Speaker 2>So?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>No, we're starting on the twenty fourth, aren't we.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, but Halloween, I said, Halloween Week, were of course

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<v Speaker 1>we're starting?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, so Halloween's three weeks away. Hollom Week

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<v Speaker 2>is two weeks away, Yes, and it's so easier amount

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<v Speaker 2>of time to wait.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, But if you don't know, we do a

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<v Speaker 1>big whole thing for Halloween Week. Stuff's coming out every day.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be doing live streams, We're pumpkin carving. There's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be a whole whack load of content coming your way,

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<v Speaker 1>specifically for Halloween week. Seven days.

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<v Speaker 2>October is the month that we thrive.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course it is. I mean it's the month that

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<v Speaker 1>most people thrive. If I'm being wholeheartedly honest here, I

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<v Speaker 1>think so. I definitely knows. It seems like it's the

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<v Speaker 1>month that our patrons thrive because everyone over there is

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<v Speaker 1>like super excited for the folloween week.

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<v Speaker 2>It's actually, yeah, well, Halloween week is the bomb.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. And everyone over there has been talking about

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<v Speaker 1>Jacko so far, gotten a lot of messages is Jacko

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<v Speaker 1>coming back? And Jacko is coming back? Don't don't you fret?

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<v Speaker 1>I know Jacko is going to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>We've got a lot of requests asking that he will

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<v Speaker 2>be coming back. Yeah, very cool.

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<v Speaker 1>And so speaking of our patrons, will give a quick

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<v Speaker 1>shout out to those who joined us over there this week.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you're curious on how to join. We'll tell

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<v Speaker 1>you here shortly, but we have Candice Cauldron, Abigail Baker,

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<v Speaker 1>Shannon Bruce. Thank you for telling us. Have to say

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<v Speaker 1>your last name, Channon, Donnelle, Donielle, Donielle. There we go. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I like that name, Alexia Venezuela. I think I said

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<v Speaker 1>that name right, really good. Thank you. Dunnan's Storm, Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>Riggs and Carly they all joined us over on our

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<v Speaker 1>Patreon to get some exclusive behind the scenes, nice exclusive content,

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<v Speaker 1>like we have a whole ass episode that comes out

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<v Speaker 1>the last day of the month.

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<v Speaker 2>So and then we also do pre shows, probably like

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<v Speaker 2>one at least once a month, maybe twice a month.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just a little us getting ready for the show.

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<v Speaker 1>So we did a little pre show this time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's like ten minutes or so of us just

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<v Speaker 2>chatting and chatting a little more in depth of motor life,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess. Eh. Yeah, what's going behind the behind the pipes?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that how you say that behind the scenes, behind

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<v Speaker 2>the scenes.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, yeah, that works. But we got a lot going

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<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes. We also getting ready for Halloween, did

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<v Speaker 1>some content stuff. We did some photos today, Yeah, some

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<v Speaker 1>cool things.

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<v Speaker 2>It was awesome. Our faces were covered in paint so mine.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a very sensitive face. It's a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a little raw, but it was worth it.

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<v Speaker 1>So not only with the content we got merch coming

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<v Speaker 1>for Halloween. We just have a whole shit ton of

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<v Speaker 1>awesome stuff coming for Halloween, is basically what we're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to say.

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<v Speaker 2>Just expect it all.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so watch out for the cool content for the

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<v Speaker 1>Halloween week coming up, the new merch coming out very soon,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot coming down the pipe.

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<v Speaker 2>M hm.

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<v Speaker 1>So with all that being said, are we good? Can

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<v Speaker 1>we go right into this show? Can we go right

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<v Speaker 1>into the episode?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think so. I just wanted to say a

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<v Speaker 2>really quick happy Thanksgiving because this weekend in Canada was

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<v Speaker 2>Thanksgiving long weekends, right, So today is Monday, we're recording,

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<v Speaker 2>and we had the Well I was going to say

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<v Speaker 2>we had the day off, but like I'm oh my

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<v Speaker 2>own business, I didn't have the day off.

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<v Speaker 1>I had a stat holiday today.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah we did. You made it a delicious meal last.

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<v Speaker 1>Night, and yeah, yeah we got a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>pumpkin pie left over which we might indulge in after

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<v Speaker 1>this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Is it calling our name and staring at us?

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<v Speaker 1>Say, it's literally right, beside my laptop right now, because

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<v Speaker 1>tiny home, there's not much space. So yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So anyway, to all of our Canadian listeners, Happy Thanksgiving.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and with that, let's get into that.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's do it.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is the Snowtown murders aka bodies in a barrel. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a big one. Lots of information, So buckle

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<v Speaker 1>those seatbelts because here we go. Okay, all right, So,

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<v Speaker 1>starting on May twentieth of nineteen ninety nine, local police

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<v Speaker 1>came across multiple decomposing bodies stuffed into old plastic barrels. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>While some of these bodies appeared as if they had

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<v Speaker 1>been here for longer than others, they had no idea

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<v Speaker 1>just how to really identify how long they had actually

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<v Speaker 1>been there and how many there really were. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of gruesome.

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<v Speaker 2>That's brutal.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, several barrels were discovered, each with multiple body parts

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<v Speaker 1>being inside.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 1>They were actually found in an old bank vault, an

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<v Speaker 1>old like decommissioned kind of bank.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's even creepier.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this bank vault was in Snowtown in South Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>So ooh, can I just say something really quick? This

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<v Speaker 2>is our first Australia case, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe it is. We actually had someone, well multiple

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<v Speaker 1>people recommend us to this case specifically, and someone recently

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<v Speaker 1>was like, hey, you haven't done an Australian case, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're like, we haven't. Yeah, so and it's not because

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<v Speaker 1>we're avoiding it, it's just just how it worked out. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so exactly, we thought, you know what, it's time that

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<v Speaker 1>we do this casey okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I just had to point that out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So what started out as a tragic discovery emerged

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<v Speaker 1>into it like a seriously long lasting investigation that would

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<v Speaker 1>open up so many horrific doors because this is something

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<v Speaker 1>that went down in this town, well in Australian history

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<v Speaker 1>and basically labeled this town something different forever. So Snowtown

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<v Speaker 1>and the surrounding cities have been facing several missing persons

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<v Speaker 1>cases for years before anything in this case would develop.

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<v Speaker 1>So by the time they were about eight or nine

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<v Speaker 1>documented missing person cases, the locals actually started getting frustrated,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, with the authorities not finding anything, not really

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<v Speaker 1>making any headway.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's a lot of like at that point, oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you got to get your shit together here. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people.

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<v Speaker 1>It's extremely significant. Yeah, So for years, individuals from the

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<v Speaker 1>surrounding cities would go missing. Little was able to be

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<v Speaker 1>dug up on any of them. None of the missing

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<v Speaker 1>people were being found, and no cases came close to

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<v Speaker 1>perpetrators being identified. So, like you say, rightfully, so brutal.

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<v Speaker 2>So this I'm just thinking that there's a serial killer

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<v Speaker 2>on the loose and they have just found his dumping grounds.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, potentially. So with no leads to go off and

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<v Speaker 1>the number of missing people accumulating every year, locals around

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<v Speaker 1>Snowtown area began to make take matters kind of into

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<v Speaker 1>their own hands. Police in Southern Australia had been on

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<v Speaker 1>the hunt for the perpetrator of these missing persons cases

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<v Speaker 1>since nineteen ninety two, but over the years they had

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<v Speaker 1>no evidence pointing them to any suspects and the case

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<v Speaker 1>had gone dry. Now, originally, none of these missing people

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<v Speaker 1>were linked to one another because they had all come

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<v Speaker 1>from different cities around the area. However, local residents began

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<v Speaker 1>getting suspicious of three newcomers to their town and they

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<v Speaker 1>brought this up to the authorities. Now, the three men

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<v Speaker 1>were individuals by the name of John Justin Bunting, Mark

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<v Speaker 1>Ray Hayden or Hayden I'm not sure exactly how you

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<v Speaker 1>say it, and Robert Joe Wagner, and they were presented

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<v Speaker 1>to the police as being kind of suspicious. So, according

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<v Speaker 1>to locals, they had noticed vehicles that were kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like sticking out oddly on the side of the road

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<v Speaker 1>in areas, and they had engaged in suspicious behavior that

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<v Speaker 1>just didn't seem right for their small town. Now, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not exactly clear what set them off to the locals,

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<v Speaker 1>like what the suspicious behavior really was, but their kind

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<v Speaker 1>of eerie presence was more or less what indicated that

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<v Speaker 1>they might be up to something that was no good.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, sometimes you just have those gut failings too, It's.

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<v Speaker 1>True, and if multiple people are reporting it, there might

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<v Speaker 1>be something to go on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you got to listen to those failings too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, Now, like Snowtown and the other surrounding cities

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<v Speaker 1>were all small areas with very little population, anybody who

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<v Speaker 1>caused any sort of specific suspicion was easily noted by

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<v Speaker 1>any groups of locals, which might have been what set

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<v Speaker 1>these three men off in the first place. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So, and I've honestly lived in some small towns and

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<v Speaker 2>that makes complete sense to me. Well, even Prince George

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<v Speaker 2>is a little bit small.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not a big city by any means.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So, on the day that these barrels were found, local

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<v Speaker 1>investigators began looking into these three men as possible culprits.

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<v Speaker 1>It was identified that the unused bank was read out

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<v Speaker 1>under the name of Mark Hayden, which of course.

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<v Speaker 2>Is one of those three dudes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, quickly linked them to the locations of the bodies

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<v Speaker 1>being found and quickly turned the investigation on its heels.

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<v Speaker 1>So over the next days, all three men were taken

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<v Speaker 1>into custody and charged with murders of eight individuals, and

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<v Speaker 1>the investigation would soon follow and uncover much more than

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<v Speaker 1>anyone would initially think. Oh boy, Yeah, so let's backtrack

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. Now, let's go back to where this

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<v Speaker 1>case began.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>In November of nineteen ninety one, John Bunting was living

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<v Speaker 1>in Murray, Rich South Australia, and he was living on

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<v Speaker 1>Loman Street, a quiet part of the suburb that didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have much history of being in the news. In his basement,

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<v Speaker 1>John had an old fashioned spider wall. Do you know

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<v Speaker 1>what a spider wall is?

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<v Speaker 2>I have absolute no idea.

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<v Speaker 1>So remember like all those TV shows CSI and stuff

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<v Speaker 1>where it's like they're trying to figure out the killer

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<v Speaker 1>and they have the picture here and a picture there,

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<v Speaker 1>the thread linking this guy to that guy. That's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a spider wall. So in the spare room of

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<v Speaker 1>his house, he had a chart created using paper notes,

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<v Speaker 1>the string and the wall, the whole webs. He connecting

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<v Speaker 1>people to people and names of individuals. He was connecting

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<v Speaker 1>people who he believed would be connecting to crimes, whether

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<v Speaker 1>it was pedophilia or someone being homosexual. He believed these

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<v Speaker 1>things to be crimes and he was laying it all

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<v Speaker 1>out what he thought who would be involved with what,

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<v Speaker 1>And this is how he was targeting them.

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<v Speaker 2>Being a pedophile, yes, but not being gay. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>agree with that. So he's deciding here.

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<v Speaker 1>He is literally quite just deciding on his own. He's

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<v Speaker 1>saying what pedophilia, homsice secxuality, those in his eyes are crimes.

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<v Speaker 1>So he had this all laid out on his wall

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<v Speaker 1>in the spare room, and at random he would pick

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<v Speaker 1>somebody from his board and insinuate that there was something

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<v Speaker 1>wrong with them that he needed to take care of them. Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because he had this board, he put it together. He said,

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<v Speaker 1>you want this guy, He for whatever reason, he brings

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<v Speaker 1>it up and says he's got to go because I

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<v Speaker 1>say so, because look he's connected. Because my spider wall says.

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<v Speaker 2>So, jeez. Yeah, that's like he's like almost playing god

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<v Speaker 2>or something quite literally.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So Robert Wagner in nineteen ninety one would meet John

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<v Speaker 1>and John would open up to Robert about his hatred

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<v Speaker 1>for certain parts of the population, something that he carried

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<v Speaker 1>out through his life he was just never able to

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<v Speaker 1>quite get rid of. So John had grown up with

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<v Speaker 1>this agonizing hatred for pedophiles and homosexuals. He had grown

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<v Speaker 1>up exhibiting classic characteristics that many unsettling children and havel

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<v Speaker 1>let's say that, being disruptive in school, bullying other kids,

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<v Speaker 1>and extreme cases, even killing animals. He kind of exhibited

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<v Speaker 1>some of these symptoms growing up, and he grew up

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<v Speaker 1>with this hatred. But John lived a life more extreme

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<v Speaker 1>than what other children had to go through. He claimed

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<v Speaker 1>he had been beaten and sexually assaulted by his older brother,

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<v Speaker 1>and in his teenage years, he blamed all of his

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<v Speaker 1>rage on pedophiles and had decided you know what, he's

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<v Speaker 1>going to take care of it from there on. So

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<v Speaker 1>it kind of shows where he comes from with this

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<v Speaker 1>idea on pedophiles and homosexuality. Not to say it's right

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<v Speaker 1>and that you should be taking these matters into your

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<v Speaker 1>own hands, but that's kind of where he's coming from.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have heard stuff like that before too in

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<v Speaker 2>other cases.

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<v Speaker 1>So and of course the other man involved in the

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<v Speaker 1>suspect list is John's longtime friend Robert, So outside of

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<v Speaker 1>the three, there was one other men that they used

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<v Speaker 1>to hang around with quite frequently though, and he goes

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<v Speaker 1>by the name of James Velasquiese. I think I said

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<v Speaker 1>that name right, hopefully I did. James was even almost

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<v Speaker 1>a step son of John. John was the son of

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<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth Harvey and the woman who was seeing who John

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<v Speaker 1>was seen. So John would often talk with James about

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<v Speaker 1>his hatred for pedophiles and homosexuals and the people who

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<v Speaker 1>he truly believed were the scum of the earth. After

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<v Speaker 1>hearing this and kind of building up through rappot with John,

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<v Speaker 1>James admitted to having been sexually assaulted by his stepbrother

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<v Speaker 1>at the age of thirteen, so something John could actually

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<v Speaker 1>relate to quite a bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It was from this point on that John became the

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<v Speaker 1>ringleader of a team who would continually commit murders based

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<v Speaker 1>on the idea that their victims were pedophiles. John would

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<v Speaker 1>anonymously call people that he knew or felt he knew

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<v Speaker 1>to be pedophiles and would threaten them, telling them that

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<v Speaker 1>something bad would coming, something was going to happen, so

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<v Speaker 1>they better watch out, sort of thing. He believed that

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<v Speaker 1>he was on some sort of moral crusade doing good

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<v Speaker 1>for the world by taking out these people who acted

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<v Speaker 1>in wrongful, wrongful ways. Before attacking his victims, he and

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<v Speaker 1>the other perpetrators would commit security fraud as well by

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<v Speaker 1>stealing money and welfare paychecks.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I was just gonna say, I say this

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<v Speaker 2>so often, but this is serious. Is some Dexter shit

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<v Speaker 2>going on right here? A little bit is a find

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<v Speaker 2>of pedophile like going and finding pedophiles, not necessarily anyone else,

295
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<v Speaker 2>but like they're finding people that they think are doing wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>which is wrong the pedophile thing, right, and going after them.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's sort of fair enough.

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<v Speaker 1>I could definitely see where you're going with that.

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<v Speaker 2>I just compare everything to Dexter.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean Dexter's pretty awesome, So any excuse to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the show or Dexter himself, let's go for it. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So in total, though, eventually the group ended up with

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00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:07.240
<v Speaker 1>about ninety five thousand dollars and so holy shit. So

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00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:10.200
<v Speaker 1>to me, part of this is like, I think they're

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00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:12.840
<v Speaker 1>making up a lot of excuses to hey, let's go

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00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.639
<v Speaker 1>kill this guy to get more cash.

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00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:17.799
<v Speaker 2>That's it's real greedy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a big thing for me. And there's a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more of that throughout to come as well

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<v Speaker 1>that we talk about. So okay. So the group's first

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<v Speaker 1>victim was killed on August thirty first, in nineteen ninety two.

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<v Speaker 1>Tracey's was only twenty two when he was attacked and

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<v Speaker 1>killed by John with a hammer.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

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00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:41.840
<v Speaker 1>John invited him into his home for a social visit

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00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:46.879
<v Speaker 1>before viciously attacking him without warning brutal. He accused him

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00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:51.200
<v Speaker 1>of being a pedophile, and his body was discovered in

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00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:55.399
<v Speaker 1>a town nearby, the town name Adelaide.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh, that's okay, that's vicious, yeap. Hammer is There are

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00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot of ways to murder someone, I suppose, but

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00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:08.039
<v Speaker 2>that just seems horrific, not that any of them. Mart

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00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.599
<v Speaker 2>but that's that's a brutal picture in my mind.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, as the first documented murder, John needed some

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00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.720
<v Speaker 1>assistance with hiding the body and cleaning up the act,

325
00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:23.400
<v Speaker 1>so he reached out to a friend of his, Bury Lane,

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00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>who helped him conceal the body. This unsolved case was

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<v Speaker 1>broadcast across the country in hopes that someone would know

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<v Speaker 1>something or be able to come forward, but unfortunately nobody

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<v Speaker 1>at the time had any leads to pursue. Years after

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<v Speaker 1>committing the murder, John then buried the body after just

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<v Speaker 1>only concealing it for now in a shallow grave on

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<v Speaker 1>the sixteenth of August nineteen ninety four in lower Lights,

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<v Speaker 1>South Australia. Now in nineteen ninety seven, Trey's case was

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<v Speaker 1>actually the subject of two episodes on America's Most Wanted.

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<v Speaker 1>Cases were often aired like repeat, you know, like in

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00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.799
<v Speaker 1>hopes to dig up some new information and leads. Yeah,

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00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.480
<v Speaker 1>so that's kind of cool that it was aired like that,

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00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.519
<v Speaker 1>but unfortunately, again nothing ever came of it.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that must have I just have to say

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<v Speaker 2>that must have been a good friend, because I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think many friends would call me and be like, I

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<v Speaker 2>need help, bear in a body and I would help them, right,

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00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:19.920
<v Speaker 2>they just wouldn't. I'm sorry.

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00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:24.640
<v Speaker 1>That's that all right. Wow, that's that's pretty impressive. Yeah,

345
00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:25.519
<v Speaker 1>you got a point.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

347
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:29.720
<v Speaker 1>It was not long after this that their second victim,

348
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.319
<v Speaker 1>Ray Davies, who lived in a caravan, was strangled to

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<v Speaker 1>death at the age of only twenty six on December

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<v Speaker 1>of nineteen ninety five. Ray had been accused of sexually

351
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<v Speaker 1>abusing the grandchildren of the woman whose property he was

352
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.319
<v Speaker 1>actually living on. Now, to John, this was more than

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00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:49.039
<v Speaker 1>enough to take a life in response to what he

354
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:53.240
<v Speaker 1>had done, but it's uncon it's not confirmed.

355
00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Hm, so and like he could just literally be thinking

356
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.359
<v Speaker 2>this and like the person is totally innocent, correct or

357
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:01.759
<v Speaker 2>maybe if you have a hunch thatul you just call

358
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:02.720
<v Speaker 2>the police and let them know.

359
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But he's just like, no, I'm just going to

360
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:09.440
<v Speaker 1>start killing people and stealing their money because why not.

361
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Which again, I'm pretty sure he's just making a lot

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00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:15.039
<v Speaker 1>of this up. Not saying that there's not facts of

363
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:16.799
<v Speaker 1>some of the stuff he's doing, but he's building up

364
00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:18.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot of this stuff in his own head just

365
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:21.319
<v Speaker 1>for the reasons of a enjoying the killing and b

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<v Speaker 1>taking the money.

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00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:24.599
<v Speaker 2>M h and he's justifying it in his mind.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, yep. So after Ray, the group decided that a

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<v Speaker 1>man named Michael Gardiner in nineteen eighty seven was next. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Michael was only nineteen at the time, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>when he was murdered. He was an openly gay cross dresser,

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<v Speaker 1>and John believed that Michael was doing something inherently wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>so he convinced his friend Robert Wagner to strangle him

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<v Speaker 1>to death.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Yep. So after he was murdered, John had one of

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00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:57.880
<v Speaker 1>his friends, Frederick Brooks, call his friends and impersonate him.

378
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.640
<v Speaker 1>He was acting as Michael and demanded the belongings from

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00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:06.079
<v Speaker 1>Michael's wallet, saying that he needed it for identification and

380
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:10.039
<v Speaker 1>payment purposes. But of course, what we know they wanted

381
00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.279
<v Speaker 1>these items teaing access to his money mm hmm and

382
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.880
<v Speaker 1>poach money off him from his welfare payments.

383
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's next level, right, literally just murdering this person

384
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:24.200
<v Speaker 2>and also like taking their identity basically and stealing all

385
00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:25.759
<v Speaker 2>their money, like ugh.

386
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Just because of the way he dressed.

387
00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's no reason whatsoever for that.

388
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, Michael's body was one of the bodies found

389
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.039
<v Speaker 1>inside the six barrels at the bank vault. He was

390
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.759
<v Speaker 1>found inside the same barrel as many other victims, and

391
00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:42.759
<v Speaker 1>one of Michael's feet had actually been removed from his

392
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:46.079
<v Speaker 1>body so that the lid of the drum could be closed.

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00:20:46.359 --> 00:20:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah wow, Okay, that is another visual and a half.

394
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so sleep with that one tonight.

395
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Thanks.

396
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Now, the murders like this went on and on. The

397
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:01.000
<v Speaker 1>next victim was Barry Lane, who was forty two when

398
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:05.599
<v Speaker 1>he was also killed for being homosexual. Now, interestingly enough, though,

399
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:09.119
<v Speaker 1>Barry was actually in a recent relationship with one of

400
00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the three men, Robert, from nineteen eighty five to nineteen

401
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:14.799
<v Speaker 1>ninety six.

402
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:17.799
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so, like, did these men know that one of

403
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:23.559
<v Speaker 2>them was was homosexual? Yep, But then they're still killing

404
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.039
<v Speaker 2>other people who are homosexual, thinking that's wrong?

405
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Yep?

406
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:31.359
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck? Okay, that hurts my brain. I'm confused. Yep,

407
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:32.839
<v Speaker 2>very confused.

408
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.319
<v Speaker 1>So the couple lived together in a small house on

409
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Bingham Road in Salisbury North, near where John was living

410
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.079
<v Speaker 1>at the time. Now, the relationship had begun when they

411
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.640
<v Speaker 1>were only thirteen, and it was a long lasting part

412
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.039
<v Speaker 1>of Robert's life. Now, although Robert himself had been in

413
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:54.640
<v Speaker 1>the relationship with men he agreed with John that homosexuals

414
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:55.839
<v Speaker 1>deserve to be punished.

415
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.799
<v Speaker 2>What yeah, Wow, Like, I don't even know what to

416
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:04.559
<v Speaker 2>say to that. That doesn't make any sense.

417
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:06.759
<v Speaker 1>How fucking ass backwards is that?

418
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? That's literally, like we've already said, he is just

419
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.519
<v Speaker 2>making hit up in his brain to like serve him.

420
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's exactly what he's doing.

421
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Fucked.

422
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:20.519
<v Speaker 1>John often referred to Barry as being a dirty man

423
00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:22.039
<v Speaker 1>and even as a pedophile.

424
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

425
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:27.319
<v Speaker 1>Barry was tortured and strangled, and his body was eventually

426
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:29.960
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in a carpet and disposed of in one of

427
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:32.200
<v Speaker 1>the barrels that would later be placed in the bank vaults.

428
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'll just pick my drop from the ground here.

429
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:42.519
<v Speaker 1>During the killings, though, John forced Barry to call his

430
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.839
<v Speaker 1>mother and explain to her that he would be moving

431
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.240
<v Speaker 1>to Queensland and then he never wanted anything to do

432
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:50.599
<v Speaker 1>with her for the rest of his life.

433
00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:56.599
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, I hate that, right, that actually breaks my heart?

434
00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.599
<v Speaker 1>Like, how fucking you like words?

435
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:00.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

436
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:04.240
<v Speaker 1>No, fucking stew of words that I want to spew

437
00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.680
<v Speaker 1>out describing these motherfuckers.

438
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:10.599
<v Speaker 2>Like that is so sad, right, yikes?

439
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Forcing him, forcing him as he's being tortured to call

440
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.640
<v Speaker 1>his mom and saying, don't want anything to do with

441
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.640
<v Speaker 1>you for the rest of my life.

442
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Like, that's almost worse than the torture.

443
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.519
<v Speaker 1>Damn near Yeah.

444
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, to have to call your loved one and then

445
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:27.160
<v Speaker 2>make there You're like just extending your pain to them.

446
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.839
<v Speaker 1>Oh and imagine the mother's reaction when finding out the

447
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.039
<v Speaker 1>truth years later and what happened.

448
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:36.279
<v Speaker 2>My gosh, I could actually bawl my face off. This

449
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:40.079
<v Speaker 2>is making me too emotional. We got to move on, You.

450
00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:40.559
<v Speaker 1>Want to move on?

451
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's so sad.

452
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.359
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So Barry actually had an interesting role in John's

453
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.960
<v Speaker 1>murder spree, though according to some sources, John's only only

454
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.519
<v Speaker 1>associated himself with Barry to gain information about other pedophiles

455
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:01.200
<v Speaker 1>living in the area. Since he had previously been involved

456
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.400
<v Speaker 1>in another murder, Barry knew a little too much information

457
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:10.799
<v Speaker 1>for John to be comfortable with. Okay, So John got

458
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.400
<v Speaker 1>win that he had apparently been talking and telling people

459
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:16.759
<v Speaker 1>about a murder. So John killed him.

460
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Hm.

461
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.799
<v Speaker 1>So was it really about his sexuality or anything? Or

462
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:25.000
<v Speaker 1>was it just that he knew too much?

463
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Probably that he knew too much?

464
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:33.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So after his murder, John took control of Barry's

465
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.440
<v Speaker 1>vehicle and was able to claim his welfare payment again

466
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.440
<v Speaker 1>the money, but he needed help with concealing Barry's murder

467
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:43.160
<v Speaker 1>as well, so he reached out to his friend Thomas

468
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:46.599
<v Speaker 1>Trevallian to help cover up the case and the evidence.

469
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Now Thomas would also eventually become a victim unfortunately, and

470
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:57.039
<v Speaker 1>the case of Thomas is quite interesting because his death

471
00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:02.279
<v Speaker 1>was originally ruled suicide, so he had assisted John in

472
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:06.640
<v Speaker 1>his most recent escapade if you will. Now he was

473
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:11.240
<v Speaker 1>diagnosed as schizophrenic and he had suffered from extreme paranoid hallucinations.

474
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.559
<v Speaker 1>Thomas's body was found hanging from a tree in Adelaine

475
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.960
<v Speaker 1>in October of nineteen ninety seven. He was forced to

476
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.279
<v Speaker 1>stand on a box with a noose fastened around his necks.

477
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.839
<v Speaker 1>Then John kicked the box out from underneath him, killing

478
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:31.720
<v Speaker 1>him nearly instantly, Which is good that it was instant, because.

479
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:32.720
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't suffering there.

480
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if a hanging is done correctly, it breaks the

481
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.200
<v Speaker 1>neck rather than strangles you slowly, So that is good

482
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:41.519
<v Speaker 1>at the very least that he didn't suffer. You know

483
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:41.920
<v Speaker 1>what I mean?

484
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:42.799
<v Speaker 2>I know, I Meania.

485
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:45.759
<v Speaker 1>But Thomas was not like the rest of the group.

486
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:52.160
<v Speaker 1>He lived quite unusual, like an unusual lifestyle, and he

487
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.599
<v Speaker 1>was filled with fear and paranoia. Thomas was known to

488
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:57.759
<v Speaker 1>run outside of his house with a knife if he

489
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:04.319
<v Speaker 1>heard unfamiliar noises. Also regularly travel extremely long distances on foot,

490
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:07.960
<v Speaker 1>so when investigators originally found him, they assumed that his

491
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:11.799
<v Speaker 1>mental illness had gotten the best of him and eventually

492
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.599
<v Speaker 1>resulted in his death. It wasn't until years later that

493
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Thomas's murder was linked to this case.

494
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.279
<v Speaker 2>You know, I almost wonder if these people are actually

495
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.440
<v Speaker 2>thinking ahead, because like the deaths aren't all the same, right,

496
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.440
<v Speaker 2>and so if they're almost planning how they can get

497
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:31.519
<v Speaker 2>away with this, Like they knew this person's history, and

498
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:33.799
<v Speaker 2>so they're going to plan it as a hanging and

499
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:36.119
<v Speaker 2>then people won't be as suspicious.

500
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:38.440
<v Speaker 1>I definitely think they were planning ahead with a lot

501
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.160
<v Speaker 1>of these Yes, yes, especially if he's got a spider

502
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.440
<v Speaker 1>wall in his spare room.

503
00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:45.319
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that already. So yeah,

504
00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:47.640
<v Speaker 2>there you go. So they're being like, I mean, I

505
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 2>completely feel absolutely disgusting about saying this, but they're like

506
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:55.000
<v Speaker 2>being smarter, I guess, and like thinking it through, which

507
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 2>I hate.

508
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.400
<v Speaker 1>They're I mean, I don't know if i'd use the

509
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:01.759
<v Speaker 1>word smart, but they're they're using their heads, they're.

510
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Using their noggin to like get away with this ridiculous,

511
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:06.920
<v Speaker 2>awful shit that they're doing.

512
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the next victim was a man named Gavin Porter.

513
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Gavin briefly briefly lived with the aforementioned James, which is

514
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:21.480
<v Speaker 1>the fourth guy in the whole the whole group now,

515
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:26.920
<v Speaker 1>while they were on a methodone program so recovering from methmphetamines. Now.

516
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Gavin got into the group's bad side when John was

517
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:35.599
<v Speaker 1>accidentally pricked with a used syringe discarded by Gavin on

518
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:39.759
<v Speaker 1>a sofa one night. So as a result, while he

519
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:41.960
<v Speaker 1>was working on his car one night in April of

520
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:45.799
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety eight, and under the influence of some extremely

521
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.960
<v Speaker 1>heavy drugs, he fell asleep in the back seat and there,

522
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:52.599
<v Speaker 1>at the age of thirty one, he was strangled to

523
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:59.319
<v Speaker 1>death by both John and Robert. So after Gavin, the

524
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.119
<v Speaker 1>next or sorry, the next victim would be.

525
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.640
<v Speaker 2>Troy Gosh, this is just not ending.

526
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So Troy Ude was a specific victim to John

527
00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:14.880
<v Speaker 1>because he was the older half brother of James. As

528
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.440
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned before, James had confided in John and told

529
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.119
<v Speaker 1>him about his older brother who sexually assaulted him as

530
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:24.480
<v Speaker 1>a child. Oh yes, so Troy is that older brother.

531
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Holy John believed that he was one of these men

532
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:31.480
<v Speaker 1>who just had it coming to him. He believed that

533
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:35.559
<v Speaker 1>Troy was intellectually disabled, and while he was sleeping one night,

534
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.480
<v Speaker 1>he was hit with it, says Planks, I'm assuming like

535
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.480
<v Speaker 1>a two by four or something over the head multiple

536
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:47.160
<v Speaker 1>times by the group and tortured before they finally killed

537
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:48.400
<v Speaker 1>him brutal.

538
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:53.440
<v Speaker 2>So these people are enjoying this. They are definitely enjoying this.

539
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:57.839
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, one hundred percent, especially because there's torture involved.

540
00:28:57.920 --> 00:28:59.559
<v Speaker 2>Right, It's very disturbing.

541
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.319
<v Speaker 1>And before Troy took his final breath on August of

542
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.359
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety eight, John forced him to apologize to his brother.

543
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:11.319
<v Speaker 1>This was the first murder that James actually had a

544
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:14.960
<v Speaker 1>direct role in. Up until now, he had never really

545
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.720
<v Speaker 1>been present for the murders, although he likely knew what

546
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:19.519
<v Speaker 1>was going on, but he was never really there.

547
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so this is.

548
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:26.160
<v Speaker 1>His first one. The next victim is a man by

549
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.000
<v Speaker 1>the name of Frederick Brooks. Now, if you recognize this name,

550
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.319
<v Speaker 1>it's because John had him involved in a previous murder.

551
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:39.680
<v Speaker 1>So in September of nineteen ninety eight, Frederick was handcuffed, gagged,

552
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.880
<v Speaker 1>and tortured violently before he was murdered by John and Robert. Now,

553
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.480
<v Speaker 1>by this time, John seemed to have a better idea

554
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:51.839
<v Speaker 1>of how to cover up his murders. They recorded Frederick

555
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.759
<v Speaker 1>speaking various sentences and phrases and all this sort of

556
00:29:55.799 --> 00:30:00.480
<v Speaker 1>stuff to help cover up his disappearance. Some way, they

557
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:02.200
<v Speaker 1>were able to make it seem as if he had

558
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:05.200
<v Speaker 1>disappeared and there was almost no reason to look for him. Basically,

559
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:07.720
<v Speaker 1>so they used the recording audio to say this, and

560
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:10.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure exactly what they did with it, but

561
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:12.519
<v Speaker 1>they use it to their advantage.

562
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Again, there's just thinking outside the box.

563
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.279
<v Speaker 1>Really, yeap, how to continue, how to get away with it,

564
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:24.839
<v Speaker 1>and how to just not be concerned basically. The next

565
00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 1>victim was Gary O'Dwyer, a twenty nine year old man

566
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.079
<v Speaker 1>who was a welfare recipient after suffering brain damage in

567
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:35.160
<v Speaker 1>a severe car crash. John had no reason to believe

568
00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:39.359
<v Speaker 1>Gary was either a pedophile or was homosexual. Instead, he

569
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:42.400
<v Speaker 1>targeted Gary because he believed his brain damage following the

570
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:44.440
<v Speaker 1>car accident was actually a weakness.

571
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, okay, I was wondering it was just

572
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.960
<v Speaker 2>going to be for the welfare check. But that's brutal.

573
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:53.480
<v Speaker 2>That's brutal because this person has been through it off.

574
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.440
<v Speaker 1>That is worse than chasing for the welfare check.

575
00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:56.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

576
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So after being out for drinks night in October

577
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen ninety eight, the three men visited his home

578
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:06.039
<v Speaker 1>before torturing and killing him.

579
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:08.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh wow.

580
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:12.599
<v Speaker 1>Later on, on November of twentieth of nineteen ninety eight,

581
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:16.000
<v Speaker 1>John would then seek out Frederick's sister, Elizabeth Hayden.

582
00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Why jeez right.

583
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.079
<v Speaker 1>She was the wife of Mark Hayden and Elizabeth's sister,

584
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Jody Elliot had a brief relationship with John in nineteen

585
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.559
<v Speaker 1>ninety eight. Elizabeth was reported missing by her brother Garion

586
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.400
<v Speaker 1>to the local police at three pm the following day.

587
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:38.039
<v Speaker 1>When Elizabeth disappeared, it sparked police interest and quickly raised

588
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:42.319
<v Speaker 1>local suspicion. This brought eyes to John, since it was

589
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:46.279
<v Speaker 1>assumed that she had been targeted for refusing John's sexual

590
00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:52.319
<v Speaker 1>advances while in a relationship with his friend. Okay, I know, right,

591
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.160
<v Speaker 1>but Elizabeth's disappearance was one of the main pieces of

592
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:58.920
<v Speaker 1>evidence that was used to tie John and the rest

593
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.000
<v Speaker 1>of the group to the fair. He is missing people

594
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.839
<v Speaker 1>and are missing person's report and the whole investigation is

595
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.920
<v Speaker 1>what originally led people to the bank vault to begin with.

596
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:13.319
<v Speaker 1>So finally, the last victim of John and the other

597
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:19.359
<v Speaker 1>two perpetrators was David Johnson. So David was the stepbrother

598
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.960
<v Speaker 1>of James. Sorry, big spider web of names and individuals

599
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:24.839
<v Speaker 1>connected here. I know it's hard to follow a little bit,

600
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.279
<v Speaker 1>but David was the step brother of James and was

601
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 1>believed to be a homosexual by John, although he wasn't.

602
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.039
<v Speaker 1>James had recently told David about a computer that was

603
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:40.240
<v Speaker 1>for sale in another area is South Australia. He wanted

604
00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:42.240
<v Speaker 1>to take him on a drive to take a look,

605
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:44.920
<v Speaker 1>so on the night of May ninth, nineteen ninety nine,

606
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.559
<v Speaker 1>they hopped in the car and started driving to Snowtown.

607
00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.079
<v Speaker 1>By James's driving skills, he's the one taking the wheel.

608
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.839
<v Speaker 1>Sorry that was a weird sentence. I said that his

609
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:58.480
<v Speaker 1>driving skills. James drove him, is what I was trying

610
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:01.519
<v Speaker 1>to say. And he drove them while the other three

611
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:06.880
<v Speaker 1>waited for his arrival. So shortly thereafter he was grabbed

612
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>when he arrived by the throat from Robert and then

613
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Mark handcuffed him. So we have John, Mark and Robert

614
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:17.160
<v Speaker 1>who were waiting there. Those are the three, and then

615
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:20.720
<v Speaker 1>James is the one that drove. He's the fourth. So

616
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:22.799
<v Speaker 1>they forced him to read a script that John had

617
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:27.119
<v Speaker 1>already prepared, as well as provide them with a pin

618
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.960
<v Speaker 1>to his bank account. Of course yep. So his voice

619
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 1>was recorded on computer equipment with a microphone and they

620
00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:36.680
<v Speaker 1>kept it for whatever records they needed to help cover

621
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:40.759
<v Speaker 1>up or however, right, so, Robert and James then after

622
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:44.839
<v Speaker 1>the recording was done, drove to the bank to try

623
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:49.599
<v Speaker 1>and access to his moneies. However, they left behind John

624
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and Mark with David. So while they were at the bank,

625
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:56.279
<v Speaker 1>they were unsuccessful with drawing any funds. So they returned

626
00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:03.119
<v Speaker 1>to find David already dead. They had strangled and beat

627
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:07.160
<v Speaker 1>him to death, chopping up his body in several pieces

628
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:09.039
<v Speaker 1>and disposing him into the barrels.

629
00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:10.960
<v Speaker 2>And was that not the plan that he would have

630
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:12.719
<v Speaker 2>been dead when they came back.

631
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not necessarily, no, because they wanted to join in

632
00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.199
<v Speaker 1>on that. Well, they hadn't even got to access his

633
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:20.679
<v Speaker 1>bank yet, he could have falsified the.

634
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Information, right, Oh okay, I see, yeah, yeah, so yeah,

635
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.960
<v Speaker 2>then they placed him in the barrels after chopping him up.

636
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:31.480
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, there is one thing, however, that sets David's

637
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:35.880
<v Speaker 1>tragic and apart from the others a little bit. Parts

638
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:38.679
<v Speaker 1>of his flesh were actually eaten by both John and Roberts.

639
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:40.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh I was not expecting that.

640
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they both claimed that they hadn't had enough fun killing.

641
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Him, so then they needed to consume him.

642
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, after dismembering his body, they fried in eight parts

643
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of his flesh because you know, why the fuck not?

644
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Geez, this is escalating.

645
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which, well, David was the last victim of the group,

646
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.719
<v Speaker 1>and it just goes to show that if they didn't

647
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:10.079
<v Speaker 1>have enough fun killing him and they just started trying cannibalism,

648
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:13.760
<v Speaker 1>it would have begun to escalate much further if he

649
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:14.679
<v Speaker 1>wasn't the last.

650
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.719
<v Speaker 2>Like I was going to even say, if this was

651
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:19.360
<v Speaker 2>not the last victim they it would have just got

652
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.280
<v Speaker 2>much worse. How much oh, I don't even want to

653
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.079
<v Speaker 2>say it, but how much they would be consuming of

654
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:26.679
<v Speaker 2>the bodies? And oh right they should this not be

655
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:27.440
<v Speaker 2>a case I'm.

656
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Reading, damn near should be. I mean, you're you're the

657
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:33.719
<v Speaker 1>cannibalistic podcaster.

658
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:35.519
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I have to take a break from

659
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:36.960
<v Speaker 2>these ones. It's too much.

660
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:40.400
<v Speaker 1>So all these victims that we mentioned, and all the

661
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 1>killings as well, went from nineteen ninety two to nineteen

662
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.199
<v Speaker 1>ninety nine, and all four of the men had gone

663
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.360
<v Speaker 1>unnoticed for the entire duration of the killing spree. And

664
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:54.480
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't until the investigation into Elizabeth's disappearance at the

665
00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:58.079
<v Speaker 1>locals or sorry and the local suspicion, that the investigation

666
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:02.440
<v Speaker 1>actually began to up with anything and where it eventually,

667
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, took them to these barrels in the bank vault.

668
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, that is a long time spend to get away

669
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:08.639
<v Speaker 2>with this horrific shit.

670
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:11.920
<v Speaker 1>It is so in the bank vault. When they did

671
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.159
<v Speaker 1>find these barrels, all the victims were in well enough

672
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:19.119
<v Speaker 1>shape to be identified by body parts that were still available,

673
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.159
<v Speaker 1>and anyone who was dug up as well was able

674
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.840
<v Speaker 1>to be identified. But it wasn't until March of two

675
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:30.159
<v Speaker 1>thousand and one that the fourth man, James, was connected

676
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:33.480
<v Speaker 1>to the crimes. Since he had no direct involvement in

677
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:37.400
<v Speaker 1>most of them, he had gone unnoticed for quite some time.

678
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:40.800
<v Speaker 1>On May twenty third, two thousand and one, two more

679
00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:43.159
<v Speaker 1>bodies were found in the backyard of a house in

680
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.440
<v Speaker 1>northern Adelaide. It wasn't just any house that they were

681
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:52.920
<v Speaker 1>found in, however, it was John's own backyard busted. Yeah,

682
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:55.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's never a smart move to just bury

683
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:56.559
<v Speaker 1>bodies in your backyard.

684
00:36:57.079 --> 00:36:59.800
<v Speaker 2>No, I feel like they have I have said this

685
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.800
<v Speaker 2>news times. They have thought something through. That is very

686
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:07.639
<v Speaker 2>much not thinking things through at all, one hundred percent.

687
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:12.199
<v Speaker 1>And by June eleventh, the police were able to confirm

688
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:16.199
<v Speaker 1>eight of the identities of the murdered victims. By June

689
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:19.519
<v Speaker 1>twenty ninth came another, and then within a few weeks another,

690
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.840
<v Speaker 1>So all these confirmed identities led up to the ten

691
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.400
<v Speaker 1>total victims, the two buried the backyard and the eight

692
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:26.320
<v Speaker 1>in the barrels.

693
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:29.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm honestly surprisers at more for the time span and

694
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.679
<v Speaker 2>how messed up these people are, and how there's like

695
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:36.159
<v Speaker 2>four of them that are like perpetrators. I'm honestly surprised

696
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.239
<v Speaker 2>only ten. Like about you, there's more.

697
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I do want to point out though there

698
00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:44.239
<v Speaker 1>is no clear plotline on exactly what order these victims

699
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:47.920
<v Speaker 1>were identified in or anything, but we do know what

700
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:51.239
<v Speaker 1>time each victim became a victim of John's, which is

701
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:56.079
<v Speaker 1>good at least so then after this, the real trial

702
00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:59.599
<v Speaker 1>began on July fourth of two thousand and one, when

703
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:03.599
<v Speaker 1>John I should say their full names actually John Bunting,

704
00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Mark Hayden, and Robert Wagner just as the final get

705
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:11.000
<v Speaker 1>the full names in there were committed to stand trial

706
00:38:11.079 --> 00:38:14.199
<v Speaker 1>on all ten accounts of murder. All three of the

707
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:17.880
<v Speaker 1>men pled not guilty. For the next year, evidence was

708
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.119
<v Speaker 1>gathered from both sides. Over this time, some of the

709
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:26.480
<v Speaker 1>jury members were actually discharged after saying that they couldn't

710
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:30.559
<v Speaker 1>continue because the murders were so horrific and rightfully.

711
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.199
<v Speaker 2>So, that would be quite a trial to be on

712
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:35.519
<v Speaker 2>for a jury.

713
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Could you, like, could you imagine being on this trial

714
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:44.159
<v Speaker 1>for over a year having to deal with this dismembered bodies, cannibalism,

715
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.440
<v Speaker 1>like just the whore, the torture.

716
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:50.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, if I was ever a jury, I

717
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:51.920
<v Speaker 2>would want a case like that. I'm not going to

718
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.719
<v Speaker 2>lie because I would be very interesting, which I probably

719
00:38:56.760 --> 00:38:58.920
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't say. But there are a lot of cases though,

720
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.760
<v Speaker 2>like it was just like a parking ticket or something

721
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:03.800
<v Speaker 2>that would just like be boord shitless sitting there right,

722
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:04.679
<v Speaker 2>fair enough.

723
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.159
<v Speaker 1>If you're gonna serve on a jury. You'd rather be

724
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:09.679
<v Speaker 1>a part of something than like some asshole who just

725
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:12.480
<v Speaker 1>doesn't want to pay five dollars for yeah, fucking.

726
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Parking space which probably don't even need juries.

727
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:19.719
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, so no, I can't blame these jurors at all.

728
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:21.840
<v Speaker 1>If they can't continue on the case.

729
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:23.960
<v Speaker 2>It would be that it would be very rough, I

730
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.440
<v Speaker 2>could imagine, would play a big toll on your mental health.

731
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:30.159
<v Speaker 1>Percent Yeah, and jurors that were actually coming back onto

732
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.280
<v Speaker 1>the trial or anything, they were being warned that this

733
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.119
<v Speaker 1>is this case is quote most unpleasant.

734
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.039
<v Speaker 2>That's a way to put it.

735
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:41.519
<v Speaker 1>That's that's definitely a way to describe it. By September eighth,

736
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:44.559
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and three, Robert and John were both found

737
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 1>guilty in all ten charges. Of course, they also appealed

738
00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:52.360
<v Speaker 1>their chargers charges later in the month, but they were

739
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:57.360
<v Speaker 1>refused a trial. Luckily, they were refused a non or

740
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.320
<v Speaker 1>they refused a non parole sentence, meaning that they were

741
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:03.719
<v Speaker 1>very unlikely to ever spend time outside of jail, and

742
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:05.519
<v Speaker 1>it's likely that they'll spend the rest of their life.

743
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.639
<v Speaker 2>Behind bars, which thankfully so.

744
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:13.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's also important to note that it's that an

745
00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:19.199
<v Speaker 1>alleged victim an eleventh person was involved with this trial.

746
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Prosecutors also believed that Susanne Allen, the forty seven year

747
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:28.840
<v Speaker 1>old John's ex girlfriend, was also murdered by the group.

748
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:31.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I still think that there's probably more. I

749
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:33.639
<v Speaker 2>was probably worried that you were going to say, like

750
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:39.320
<v Speaker 2>someone one of the investigators or like a jury person

751
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:42.039
<v Speaker 2>like or like committed suicide or something.

752
00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:49.239
<v Speaker 1>Thankfully, Yeah, but involving this eleventh death, the jury could

753
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.800
<v Speaker 1>never could not reach a verdict unfortunately, so it's unknown

754
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:56.440
<v Speaker 1>if John actually played a part in her disappearance or not.

755
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:58.320
<v Speaker 2>So there just wasn't enough evidence then.

756
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Apparently, however, some of the I'll talk about some of

757
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:05.639
<v Speaker 1>the evidence surrounding her a little bit here. Her remains

758
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:10.960
<v Speaker 1>were found buried in John's backyard. Her body was dismembered

759
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:14.639
<v Speaker 1>and wrapped in eleven different plastic bags. Okay, And while

760
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:17.679
<v Speaker 1>she was deceased, John continued to collect her pension until

761
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:20.559
<v Speaker 1>he gained approximately seventeen thousand dollars off of her.

762
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, I feel like, right there, he looks incredibly guilty,

763
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.480
<v Speaker 2>right Like, I just feel like guilty, Like I don't

764
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:29.039
<v Speaker 2>even know if I'd have to hear anymore.

765
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:32.719
<v Speaker 1>I know his defense, he claimed that she had died

766
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 1>of a heart attack, though, and then.

767
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:36.480
<v Speaker 2>He just decided to like chop up her body and

768
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:39.679
<v Speaker 2>like bury in the backyard instead of just like calling

769
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.079
<v Speaker 2>someone and saying this person had a heart attack. Yep,

770
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I know, I'm I guess potentially, potentially that could be

771
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.679
<v Speaker 2>potentially if he was just wanting to like collect the

772
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:57.239
<v Speaker 2>welfare check, because if he did call the heart attack in,

773
00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:59.719
<v Speaker 2>then he would not be able to go about getting

774
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:00.440
<v Speaker 2>the wealthy.

775
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so, at the very least, he desecrated human remains

776
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.239
<v Speaker 1>and committed fraud at the very least on that one.

777
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.239
<v Speaker 2>And he probably did murder her as well. But I

778
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:14.639
<v Speaker 2>guess I can kind of see a slim possibility where

779
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:15.079
<v Speaker 2>he didn't.

780
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:18.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe that he didn't at all.

781
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:21.639
<v Speaker 2>Playing I'm really playing the devil's out to get here.

782
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:26.679
<v Speaker 1>They really are so regardless, though, in her case, the

783
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:30.639
<v Speaker 1>charges and prosecution were dropped, apparently to lack of evidence

784
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:34.440
<v Speaker 1>pointing to any perpetrator for that one. Now, the third

785
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:37.840
<v Speaker 1>man involved, Mark had his trial again on August second

786
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:41.480
<v Speaker 1>of two thousand and four. His case in this role

787
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:43.800
<v Speaker 1>is a little bit different. Sorry, his role in this

788
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.559
<v Speaker 1>case is a little bit different. My dyslexia is showing,

789
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:48.760
<v Speaker 1>even though I'm not dyslexic.

790
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Just lit.

791
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Since his wife was one of the victims, the

792
00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:56.800
<v Speaker 1>jury had a very strong hatred towards him. He had

793
00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:58.840
<v Speaker 1>claimed that he and his wife were trying to have

794
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.400
<v Speaker 1>a baby when she disappeared, and then after that his

795
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:06.719
<v Speaker 1>entire world fell apart. That's when he began began to

796
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:08.920
<v Speaker 1>be involved with the murders and he felt like he

797
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:12.920
<v Speaker 1>just had nothing to live for anymore. So on December nineteenth,

798
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:16.440
<v Speaker 1>after deliberating for nine days, the jury failed to reach

799
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:20.599
<v Speaker 1>a conclusion. Really yeah, But eventually he was convicted on

800
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.599
<v Speaker 1>five accounts of assisting with murder and sentenced to twenty

801
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:24.480
<v Speaker 1>five years.

802
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:25.920
<v Speaker 2>It's not enough.

803
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:30.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So in the case of James Vlaskis, he pleaded

804
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:33.800
<v Speaker 1>guilty to four of the murders and was sentenced to

805
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:39.239
<v Speaker 1>four consecutive life sentences. Okay, yeah. To this day, however,

806
00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:43.000
<v Speaker 1>this is the longest trial in South Australian history due

807
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.159
<v Speaker 1>to the number of victims and the accumulating information over

808
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:50.679
<v Speaker 1>the amount of time and years it took took juries

809
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:53.079
<v Speaker 1>and courts to sift through it all.

810
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, I just can only imagine the amount of evidence

811
00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:58.320
<v Speaker 2>that they had, like even all the bodies and everything.

812
00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:01.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh, identifying the bodies a lot, can you imagine?

813
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and just like witnesses and people to talk to,

814
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:06.119
<v Speaker 2>like it's never ending, I'm sure.

815
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh and then of course you're exhooming the bodies from

816
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.599
<v Speaker 1>not only the bank vault, from someone's backyard, and they're

817
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:16.400
<v Speaker 1>not in a single grave, they're in pieces, clearly. Yeah,

818
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:20.039
<v Speaker 1>and with all Like, I'm sure it was confusing listening

819
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.400
<v Speaker 1>to this case because of all the spider web of names.

820
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:25.159
<v Speaker 1>There's this person, there's that person, back and forth. So

821
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.679
<v Speaker 1>trying to track down all these people get statements and

822
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, like we're talking years after they've been involved,

823
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:33.880
<v Speaker 1>like a decade, So trying to even track them down

824
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:38.320
<v Speaker 1>to start with would have been fun to say the least.

825
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, I think this would be like hell to

826
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:42.639
<v Speaker 2>investigate one hundred percent.

827
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:47.800
<v Speaker 1>So the details of this case of course horrified the public,

828
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:51.920
<v Speaker 1>and it's caused a continuing effect on Snowtown. The murders

829
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.119
<v Speaker 1>garnered much unwanted attention for the entire community, and at

830
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:58.599
<v Speaker 1>this point the town is best known for this murder case.

831
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.239
<v Speaker 1>Being such a small town with very little history on

832
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:06.159
<v Speaker 1>its own locals actually originally tried to change the name

833
00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:10.119
<v Speaker 1>to something else. They kind of brought the suggestion yeap

834
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:12.280
<v Speaker 1>to welcome visitors, draw attention.

835
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, Oh, that's kind of that. That's sad.

836
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, some some people suggested Rose Town. It didn't quite

837
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:21.599
<v Speaker 1>stick though, I like that. Yeah, but so today it's

838
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:22.440
<v Speaker 1>still Snowtown.

839
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:27.239
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's like really sad. There's two things in this case.

840
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm too emotionally that's brutally sad.

841
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:34.360
<v Speaker 1>It is this little town like trying to like clean

842
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.440
<v Speaker 1>this smudge from this these fucking assholes.

843
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:41.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like these disgusting humans that just did not deserve

844
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:44.559
<v Speaker 2>to be there. And oh that I don't know, that's sad.

845
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:46.440
<v Speaker 2>That hurts my heart.

846
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well there is one little bit of of niceness

847
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.559
<v Speaker 1>that came out of this. John's house had actually been

848
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:56.480
<v Speaker 1>taken ownership by the Australian Housing Trust and it had

849
00:45:56.559 --> 00:46:00.519
<v Speaker 1>been demolished, okay, and units were actually created in place

850
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:03.239
<v Speaker 1>for elderly people in the area. Oh wow, And I

851
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:07.599
<v Speaker 1>really really really hope that there are some homosexual elderly

852
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:09.119
<v Speaker 1>people in that housing unit right now.

853
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that'd be right, that would be perfect.

854
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:14.840
<v Speaker 1>That would just be the ultimate fuck you to that

855
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.199
<v Speaker 1>fucking piece of human trash.

856
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they should have almost made it that like low

857
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:26.480
<v Speaker 2>income for like LGBTQ or something like that for homosexual

858
00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:29.719
<v Speaker 2>people or something, and just like that. I feel like

859
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:30.760
<v Speaker 2>that would be even better.

860
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:31.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

861
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:34.159
<v Speaker 2>So but the fact that it's still something of good

862
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:35.239
<v Speaker 2>is nice.

863
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:38.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I like that. So that's the case. That's the

864
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:41.639
<v Speaker 1>Snowtown murders or bodies in a barrel.

865
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:45.159
<v Speaker 2>And like you said, yeah, I mean the fact that

866
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 2>they used a spider web. That case is a spider

867
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:48.480
<v Speaker 2>web and a half.

868
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:52.159
<v Speaker 1>It is. It's back and forth. There's there's too many

869
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:56.920
<v Speaker 1>people involved to make it simple. Basically, when you look

870
00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:01.000
<v Speaker 1>at it as a linear like timeline, it's pretty basic.

871
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:02.679
<v Speaker 1>But as soon as you start involving all the names,

872
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:03.960
<v Speaker 1>it gets real confusing.

873
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:05.920
<v Speaker 2>When a lot of them are connected and stuff too,

874
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:07.760
<v Speaker 2>which is like adds another level.

875
00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:12.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So yeah, with that, we appreciate you guys being here.

876
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:14.519
<v Speaker 1>Of course, we have all the information down below. You

877
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.840
<v Speaker 1>can check out our Patreon, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, you name it.

878
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:20.440
<v Speaker 1>We've got a website. All of it's down below. If

879
00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:22.000
<v Speaker 1>you want to join us on that Patreon, you can

880
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.920
<v Speaker 1>get that all behind the exclusive scenes content coming up,

881
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:28.719
<v Speaker 1>especially with a lot coming on Halloween week. If not,

882
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:31.159
<v Speaker 1>you just want to be here for regular episodes, We

883
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:33.400
<v Speaker 1>appreciate that too, and like I said, stick around for

884
00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:38.159
<v Speaker 1>Halloween week because seven straight days of epic stop coming your.

885
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Way basically two weeks.

886
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:42.440
<v Speaker 1>Tom Yeah, So thank you for being here, thank you

887
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.519
<v Speaker 1>for being awesome, and of course, until next time, stay Wicked.