Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos. I am Dana Valley, coming
at you as always with my certified fantabulous co host,
mister Grant Hughes. It's that time of year again. We're
on to our officially official twenty twenty four twenty twenty
five NBA Year end Awards prediction. We're going through the
Big Eight. We're not gonna do I don't know if
we did all NBA, All Rookie, and All Defense last year,
but uh, that might be something to check in on
mid season. But that's more fun to do after we've
watched the actual game. So we have our ballots for
these eight awards before we get to it. Grant, One,
how are you doing? And two? How are you feeling
about this exercise?
Speaker 2: I'm a little disappointed to you didn't accept my eleventh hour.
It was like more like the eleven fifty ninth hour
of like, hey, let's turn this into a draft. But
that's okay. I understand that the graphics tick work, and
then we wouldn't really be doing predictions, which is kind
of what these so this is. This isn't so sometimes
in things like this we have to do like who
should win versus who you think will win? Did you
think about this that way? And if so, is this
your who should win or who you think will win?
Or and is there a difference?
Speaker 1: There's definitely a difference. I did it as I'm filling
out my ballot. If we had to vote right now,
this is how I would be voting. So I did
it from my perspective, like, this is who I think
will be the MVP. And like, in some instances, I
recognize too that my choice is they're they're all like
you should statistically speaking, you should always bet on the field.
But in some cases I kind of recognize that I
view it this way. But I actually like, maybe this
player doesn't even appear on the ballot because I know
that a vast majority of voters are going to think
about it through a different Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess like the who should win as
is a lot harder to make a case for when
we don't have any games played yet, So like, what
is your should based on at this point?
Speaker 1: So, yeah, did you approach it from who you think
is gonna win? Then?
Speaker 2: More or less? Like but that it's I guess as
I'm talking it out, the distinction I drew kind of
is not that uh, not that stark, because again we
haven't there's nothing to base it on. It's like, you know,
at the end of last year or at the end
of any year, it's like who you where the voting
seems to be trending, and then you might have someone
that you think, well, the numbers say that it should
be this guy. We don't have the numbers yet, So
I think I mostly looked at it as just, yeah,
if I had to fast forward to the end of
the season, what do I think like a good ballot
should look like? And and so yeah, it's I guess
in that sense, it is who I think is actually
gonna win or you know, place versus you know, it's
pretty hard to predict who you think will be like
unjustly overlooked having no numbers to base that on. At
this point, there's.
Speaker 1: There's only like adding totally you could make the case
of voter fatigue for certain players would be the way
to go that route I tried. That's what I tried
to ignore is I guess the best way to frame
it throughout this process is, I don't you know, if
people are tired of seeing the same players mentioned on
the MIP ballot or like I tried not to think
of it in those terms where I look, oh, so
and so finished fourth in MIP last year, Does that
mean that he can't win it this year? No, it
shouldn't mean it that, even though people I think voter
some might view it that way, be like, well did
he improve enough from being top five of MIP last year?
So that's always the challenge. Before we get started, a
very quick reminder, because there's still time our over under
competition where you compete against Grant and I and you
can win a merch item of your choice, but also
the chance to guest host a mailbag podcast. Join our
discord and enter the link to the discords in the
podcast and YouTube description. You can go in there. There's
a specific server room. I'll post a link again, it's
pinned in the room. But for people who aren't familiar
with discord, I might even throw Grant in that you
could pin like what's a pin boat. I'll throw the
link in there again, you could fill it out just
over unders and you could see how you stack up.
And it turns out Grant and I are eminently beatable
based on what happened last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, like this is your chance, people, It's not
a five bar to clear clearly you can you can
succeed with minimal effort that I feel very confident that
we will not. We will not win or finish one
too no chance.
Speaker 1: Let's get started. We will begin with MVP. We always
have this discussion grant beforehand. We didn't this year because
I know how you like to do it, where it's well,
do we go with the you know, the sexiest award
first or last to try and hook people in? For us,
it shouldn't matter because you're welcome everybody. We time stamp shit.
But that's always something I'm thinking about, is, oh, do
you keep people watching a little longer? Should we not
reveal our ballots at the top instead of discussing them.
I like the idea of just hey, here's our top
five ballot from VP, let's talk about it, and so
you can see it on screen right now, here's our
top five grant. You want to roll through yours?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, and then here's a question. Do I go
one to five? Do I go five to one? I'm
just gonna just do it one to five. So I
have Luka Doncish number one, Jokic two, Jannis three, SGA four,
and Wemby five. So the Luca part of it, let's
just start there. I mean, I think I just think,
you know, this is so ridiculous, but it's like it
feels like it's time. It feels surprising that he hasn't
won one yet. And we went into the finals last
year with a Boston team that was just like crushing everybody,
and I remember having the conversation of like, I think
I got to give Boston like six games just because
of Luca, you know, like that, trying to figure out
that series, and he was not even one hundred percent.
So the numbers are going to be insane. The possibility
that Klay Thompson actually does make a huge difference on
offenses there, uh, and he's just like right at that
point in his career where maybe there's like, I mean,
how much better can you really get than Luca has been?
But maybe there's like a five percent bump and that's
all it takes.
Speaker 1: Game averaging a triple double is possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like I think really one of the
things that gave me the most pause here. I'd be
curious if this factor for you at all, because we're
pretty similar, and I'd like to hear the Jokic case too,
as if like you need to really make a Jokic
cases one, three out of four spoilers.
Speaker 1: I like to reveal my ballot to the listeners.
Speaker 2: Well they're looking at it, but so real quick before
I get to you, like, uh, we think Dallas is
going to be a top four team in the West,
like we've that's consensus probably, but is that even is
that enough? If Dallas is fourth and Luca has like
I think, you know, like they might have to be second,
or they might have to just have, you know, be
third but win fifty five games or something like that,
and he has to have the numbers like that aspect
of MVP is is because we both have several West
guys here. Uh that that's like a little curveball in
the analysis.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, so one based on if you're a Baalid,
it's very clear that you hate America. I just want
to throw that out there at any page, Well.
Speaker 2: Look at me, international coalition. I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 1: So I have Jokic at one, Luca at two, Sga
at three, Jalen Brunson at four, and then Yannis at five.
The there's so many different places to go the lou
I it came down to Luca or Jokic. For me,
I tried to give Sga a ton of consideration. I
honestly think now that I'm like the way that I
know the MVP unfolds, even the way I think about it,
where it's I'm looking at how good do I think
this player is in a vacuum, and then how indispensable
do I think he is to his team in the
sense that it's not just about how bad they are
without him, but how much better does he make them?
And Sga, I want to be clear, I think is
high on that scale. But like the indispensability factor when
you look at like him versus Jalen Brunson's like the
Knicks unloaded their entire war chest of assets and they
are now more dependent on Jalen Brunson than they were before.
So that is one I struggled with the Jokic case.
Though I don't think I want to be here. I
don't think he's gonna win. I think that people always won.
He can't win four. He can't do that. I mean one, yes,
yes he can. I look at it as people are
I don't know if they're sleeping on the Nuggets, but
the coverage of the Nuggets have skewed so far from
where they were when they want a title to where
that if they're second in the West again. And all
these people, including us on some of these not all
these fronts, but some of these fronts, have spent all
this time worrying or questioning Jamal Murray, the fit of
Russell Westbrook, them transitioning maybe too much into some of
these younger guys. If just if despite all those concerns, Yeah, okay,
those players, let's say, Christian Brown and Peyton Watson and
Julian Strath are all great. The Russell Westbrook fit pans out,
Jokic is gonna be like at the four of the
Like you think Peyton Watson's gonna get a lot better
on the offensive end without being reliant on Nikolejokic. No,
do you think the Russell Westbrook fit is gonna pan
out in any way unless Nikole Jokic helps kind of
smooth it over. I mean maybe in the minutes that
he's not on the court, since Russe will be coming
off the bench, so he's gonna have that going for
him on top of just what I had mentioned before,
which was, there's all these reasons to doubt the Nuggets
now and if they just end up near the top
of the West, which I have said some pretty critical
things of the Nuggets this offseason, I still hit there over.
I still had them When did I have them third
in the Western Conference? He's the best player in the NBA.
He's an iron man when you're you know, we're worrying
about availability. That was the other thing. Who do you
think is more like? Like? This was this was the
splitting hairs thought process. Who is more likely to not
play in sixty five games this year? Luka or Jokic?
Speaker 2: Oh right, Yeah, Yogic is just gonna you could Yoga
is gonna be out there like that's just his defining features.
Speaker 1: And I think the final thing that shifted it for me,
and you could maybe make the case for Luca in
this way because of where Kyrie is in his career.
Which player on this list, I mean, Jalen Brunson is
the answer. But when we're looking at the top three
or like just most of the candidates, which of which
other NB peak candidates are less likely to have an
All Star teammate Jalen Brunton's probably even more likely to
have an All Star teammate because he has Towns. I
would trust Towns to make an All Star Game in
the East before I'm going to trust Jamal Murray to
do it in the West, let alone trust Jamal Murray
to do it all. So those factors just kind of
swayed it. But I Luca feels like the right pick.
I don't like that. It's his time argument. I think
he's just really fucking transcendent.
Speaker 2: So you have SGA third and I have him fourth,
and so by definition, we're not like sliding him. We're
saying he's gonna be no worse than the fourth most
valuable player in the league by the end of.
Speaker 1: The season, which is a slide from where he was.
Speaker 2: So that's that's what I wanted to get into, is like,
you know, factoring in that pretty much everybody on planet
or thinks the thunder are going to win the West
and their win total is going to be in the
sixties or whatever, an SJA is going to be the
best player on that team. It like, did you get
I didn't, but did you give any thought to SGA
ranking higher than third? And like I guess really my
question is like why not, Like, what what is the
reason we both don't have SGA? Because I agree it's
one two to me, it's Luca and Jokic in some order,
and then it's after that it's like, well, I just
something strange will have to happen, I feel like for
someone else to win. So what was the what prevented
SGA for you from being higher than he is?
Speaker 1: So I actually had the field a little bit more
open than you going into it any of these five players, Like,
there are points where I was like, man brunts and
at number one makes so much sense because anecdotally, how
like he's almost a Jokic East in the sense of
where like, okay, the Knicks have talent, but where they
have challel Brunson isn't on the court nowhere is the answer.
But the SGA argument is, and I hated framing it
in these terms, is he's going to have so much
talent around him that I think it'll be harder to
separate just how valuable he is to uplifting the thunder.
And it's almost like the Jason Tatum argument of it all,
except that he is more undeniable because of the like
the self creation or the table setting for others when
it comes to the offensive end, He's like, it just
wouldn't shock me though. I Mean, you laid out his
case that the Thunder win sixty plus games, he's the
best player on that team and it's not. You know
what people don't like about Jason Tatum is essentially that
he's not Luka Doncicz. Like they either want the assist
numbers to come up or they want him to defend
the other team's best player, kind of like what Yannis
would do, and that's not even what Yannis does. So
that's that's a bad argument. Shay has a stronger case
as the best player on the best team than a
Tatum would, just because I think he has more of
the numbers that people want. But there's also the thing
I worry about putting him three is that isn't there
a chance because I'm just assuming, Okay chet Holmgrin and
Jalen Williams might be All Stars right now, and like
that's part of the how do you separate his value
independent of them? There's a chance if this team just
doesn't have enough on ball creation, if those two don't
take leaps like you could mention Caruso or Hartenstein when
he's healthier, Aaron Wiggins, if you want to. I almost
felt uneasy putting him at three because there's just a
real chance. Okay, the thunder are winning sixty five games,
but their offense is just nowhere even near league average
or like functional when he's off the floor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting I think for me, so like, and
this applies to Brunson a little bit too, where like
just to keep a confined SGA though, like I don't
think he can be better than he was last year,
and like, by definition, he sort of has to be
better than that to win. Now. The other thing is,
like I do think there's a reasons to believe beyond
this year, like amount of talent around him, that some
of his production might dip, which and like, you know,
we don't necessarily think of him first in this sort
of conversation. But he was negatively affected by the league
changing how its rules were enforced last year because he's
just like, he's an ace foul drawer. And in January
he averaged over ten free throw attempts a game. He
never got back above that, which is like right around
you know, most All Star break is when it really
turned down in terms of like the referees kind of
giving the offensive player the benefit of the doubt on
contact and shooting attempts, Like he was down a couple
free throw attempts a game for the next couple months,
down in the playoffs. So like if if the question
if is about him needing to be better, like production wise,
I just don't see the path for that. So the
only way you do get there is if the thunder
win you know, an ungodly number of games, and he's
roughly the same. But I actually think his numbers might
dip for reasons beyond the talent. And I think Brunson's
a little bit that way too, Not that his numbers
are going to dip, but like, how can he be
better than last year? He could be more important, But
I don't know if, Like I don't know if he's
got more in him because last year he was so
good and that wasn't enough, you know, to to be
in a serious run for it last year.
Speaker 1: Your point is a good one. I guess the pathway
to him being better would be does he take four
to three pointers a game instead of two and hits
the other ridiculous, and then it's Oh with Brunton. It
feels it's easier to envision his stat line being glitzier
because I think look at the playmaking specifically, I think
the nit Nicks without a healthy Randall or without Randal
at all, need him to do that more than ever,
and I could see his numbers going up. Let's say
he takes the same number of shots, so many more
of them inside the arc are going to be why
like semi open compared to what they were last year,
so he could be more efficient. I really want to
talk to him, Well, let's I want to focus on
the Yannis. I'm glad that you actually put him at three. Uh.
It feels like we just forget Giannis was so dominant
last year. He changed his shot profile a little bit,
cut out a lot of the junk. I don't know
why he's not like this is when you're at this level,
it's like to anyone, Well, I'm gonna ask you about
Wemby in a second, but like when you're when you're
splitting hairs between Sga, Luka, Jokic and Giannis, it's just like,
if you think Giannis needs to win, I'm not going
to fight you on like if this, if if our
ballots make you mad, I think your fifth place guy
in Wemby could make some people mad, And there might
be something to think about there. But when we're talking
about those other fi even if you think that Brunton's
become inflated, where like we're splitting hairs at this level
the Yannest case though, why isn't he Like why have
we We were at a point where just felt like
he was a default well for you, he was a
default top three option, Like I don't even have a
good logic for why I don't think he's here. I'm
worried a little bit about when it comes to games played,
I think he does not have as much agency over
the offense with Damian Lillard there. I'm like, he's still
the same type of player defensively, but he's getting a
little bit older and isn't gonna rely on his athleticism
as much. What does that look like? Again, I'm splitting
already split hairs, So I'm curious why you have him
number three? Like what is the what convinces you to
throw him in that that tire?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would start by acknowledging there are some
pretty significant like downside angles here, which is the age.
To me, I don't think he's not in his athletic
prime anymore. And he is a player that like when
he was just I say, was like it's over, Like
he you know, had one of his best seasons ever
last year. I do think he's someone that depends more
on athleticism than like technical skill than a lot of
these other guys, Like certainly you know him and like
him versus like Luca or Yannis is just like Luca
or Joki is like night and day in terms of
like run and jump athleticism versus like technical mastery. Those
guys are just very different. So I think he could
slip a little bit. And the Buck situation obviously has
massive downside because of the age of the core, because
of questions about depth, because of like maybe maybe it's
not a situation where like the Dame Yanis thing will
just be better because it's year two and Dame had
an offseason to get in shape, Like that's all valid.
I just felt like he just clearly to me, is
still the third best guy in the league. I think
the floor is really high. It was almost like a
safe It felt like a safe pick for me, and
I do think to just sort of argue against myself
there is like would you be shocked if the honest
dame pick and roll like actually did work this year?
Like I wouldn't. I think it's possible that that just
becomes a real weapon in ways that we hoped it
would last year.
Speaker 1: And like other than I'm sorry, how does that make
a case? Oh you're making a case against you saying
there's down here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was just going through the possible downsides
for like justifying you having him fifth, for example, Like, yeah,
there's a lot of ways that Jannis his season could
be disappointing with quotes around it, because that's a relative
term when you're that good. But I do think there
are a couple like potential glass half full things that
you know, I don't think I could get him higher
than third, but like I just felt like it's honest,
he's still close enough to being in his prime, way
more defensive value than anybody on my ballot other than
Wemby obviously, and it's just like he's gonna get thirty
and eleven and five and be efficient and be pretty
di so you know, like I just that's a third MVP.
It's a third place MVP to me.
Speaker 1: I do think subconsciously most of us, and I'll definitely
throw myself in. This tend to gravitate towards the players
who are responsible for more self creation or a larger
part of everyone else's offense. And giannest is kind of
he's not just a play finisher, and he does have
the secondary playmaking element, but he's not a primary self creator.
He's also not the primary table setter. But this is
what I hate doing because now I'm discrediting and I
actually think so part of the downside you mentioned probably
Booy's his case to where it's, well, there's downside for
the Bucks and so they're really good again, But you don't,
you know, Chris Middleton takes a while of ramp up,
isn't as good? Is this the year that brook Lopez
slips measurably? What if Dame just isn't you know? We're
all on penciling in for a bounce back year in
the sense of, yeah, he's gonna hit the open threes, guys,
what if he doesn't? And so that could work in
his favor if the Bucks are still right there and
he's putting up the same type of numbers. I have
to ask you about this, though, I understand Wemby's value
in a vacuum, and I don't think there's such a
thing as necessarily hyperbole when it comes to Wemby. Do
you think that we have reached a point where people
can and this is not like this isn't really into
your own view now, it's more about the feasibility of
Wemby being on this ballot. Do you think we've reached
a point where someone can be on it team that
will probably be below five hundred if we're being honest,
and is top five on the MVP, or as part
of your calculus that you just think the Spurs are
gonna be so good, like forty four wins or something
with Wemby, that that's why he's top five for you.
Speaker 2: It's more I think the real like distilled explanation is
I just want to be on the right side of
history here, Like I just want to have it memorialized
that I had Wemby in the top five on my ballot.
He just I just needed his name there. And obviously,
like Brunson and Tatum are the names, one of those
two should probably be there, but I pick Wemby one
because of that, Like, I do think he's just going
to be a transcendent talent, like and I want to
be able to look back and say, like, YEP had
him on there in his second year. The other thing is,
and no, I don't. I don't think the Spurs are
gonna be you know, forty four. That's pretty optimistic. Realistically,
they need like high forties probably for this for him
to have any chance at winning. I'm not saying he's
gonna have a chance winning. I do think his individual
numbers are gonna be so insane that there will be
a lot of people that just say, like, I can't
keep a guy averaging thirty fifteen, five, four and three
off my MVP ballot, Like I can't do it because
clearly that's insanely valuable. And I spoiler alert he's gonna
rate high in Defensive Player of the Year. So just
from an individual statistical production basis, I do think he's
gonna be one of the five most impactful players in
the league this year. I just I don't think he's
gonna win MVP. I just need the I need his
name on there. And that's so fifth was just like,
that's where he has to be.
Speaker 1: I think if people are looking at how good the
Spurs are on the floor with him, that might be
his entire case. There goes And I've always struggled with
that to where it's like, how much do we penalize
these players like Wemby last year, Like how much do
you the defensive player of the Year stuff? They were
in like the seventy fifth percent title of defensive performance
with him on the court, But they weren't a good
defensive team overall, and so that was people's arguments, Well,
they weren't a good defensive team. How much do you
penalize him for the minutes he's not on the court.
But at the same time, like when part of the
value of a Jokic or a Luca is how bad
their teams are without them, it's it's a lot of
pretzel twisting. I think what bodes well for him is
that talent wise, impact wise, I think he could have
top five impact. Who remembers I feel like you remember
when it comes mostly because all these other ballots are three.
MVP's the only one that's five. I feel like everyone
remembers first, second, maybe third place, and so I do
believe that there will be maybe more voters than is
normal because it's Wemby. There's like we'll throw him in
fifth because it's fifth. What am iut like are if
Jason Batam doesn't finish fifth because Wemby does, who is that?
Who is that really harming? Who is that really angering?
And I think that I hate to simplify his case
down to that, but when we're looking strictly at the
top five, I like that might be the best argument.
Is like he's so good and people don't really care
who's fifth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of is it? Like I that's my
thinking a little bit, is like I putting him fifth
to me, you know a lot of times, like you
have Yiannis fifth for example, like Yannis could win it,
and it's like we've made the case for how Wemby
I don't think has any chance of actually winning it,
but I still need and so like in contrast, like
I don't have Brunson on mine, Like I could imagine
a scenario where Brunson wins it. I just I want
when beyond there because I think it's gonna look completely
nuts if he has the statistical season. I think he's
gonna have and I didn't put him on my at
the bottom of my ballot.
Speaker 1: What's the number of wins? And we again we don't
necessarily look at the award for this, but what's the
number of wins the Spurs would need to have for
people to actually put him on the Oh, he could
win this race? Does it need to be Oh, no,
they just won fifty something games? Or is it like
if the Spurs are forty three thirty nine with an
upper echelon defense, or is it just like, what if
they're just one of the top six teams and I
guess that takes let's say, forty six games is kind
of the benchmark there. Maybe that's even too low.
Speaker 2: I mean, if they're in the top in this West
that we keep, you know, it's such a broken record,
but like the West looks really tough at the top,
Like that should be enough, assuming his impact individually is
what we project it to be, right, Because like, I
just like I don't know, a lot of my thinking
on Wimby kind of circles back to this same core
idea of like, at some point there's gonna be someone
that is just doing stuff we've never imagined. Was possible
before like it'll happen, and maybe it's not Wimby. Maybe
it's some guy that's like twelve years old right now
that you know is gonna come into the league next decade,
but like it feels like it's him, and so that
puts everything on the table from you know what is
box score numbers are to like how many wins it
takes to get an MVP award to like maybe and
maybe what it sort of reformats for us is like
how many wins can a single guy actually add to
a team's total, Like maybe this burd just win fifty
games because he's like that dominant and nothing else mattered.
Now that's I don't think that.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm fifty he wins MVP, right, there's no Yeah,
there's your number.
Speaker 2: If they win fifty, he's gone over. Yeah, like forty
three probably not to just answer your question, but you
get into the mid forties, which again I don't think
is likely, Like then you got to have a conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, I think this isn't a win number.
It's what you were saying. If they are a top
six seed in the West, which again I would not predict.
So last year's six Yeah, that is fifty games. Phoenix
had forty nine. Yeah last year. So if if they're
sixth in the West, I would say that it's over.
Like maybe Luca at that point could kind of because
then you that's when you get into the real anecdotal
conversation about it all. So maybe Luca anecdotally could like
that's the one you pit against him. Yeah, But if
they're if they won forty nine games, it's just it's over.
He's probably he has to be the MVP at that point.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, doesn't it. I know, the team's
success is a huge component of MVP. And the reason
that's the case is because like we somewhat correctly think
that the best players are the ones that help you
win the most. But like to your point, and the
one we kind of talk about all the time, it's like, well,
they're not in control of what happens when they're not
on the floor. And in fact, in Jokic's case, we
always point to that as like, oh he's actually he's
the MVP, but actually, like he's even better than that,
because look how shitty Denver is when he doesn't play.
I think that's really going to come into focus for
Wemby too, right, Like, and maybe we'll get to a
point in our analysis where we just stop caring about
how good the team is when he's not in the game,
and you just look at how good they are with him.
And maybe there's where the Spurs do play like a
fifty plus win team when he's in the game, and
we'll get sophisticated enough to just look at that. That's
kind of like wishful thinking, I would imagine, based on
you know, how the votes tend to go. But like, again,
maybe he's the guy because it's coming at some point,
it's coming where we he just forces a reevaluation of everything.
Maybe it's him.
Speaker 1: So we've mentioned obviously Wenby would be an honorable mention
for me. I think we both talked about Tatum already.
He would certainly be up there. Any other names that
you could kind of see party crashing this discussion.
Speaker 2: I think Tyrese Haliburton, if the Pacers can be top
four in the in the East, and he on kind
of the Nash theory of an MVP, where it's like
this is the best offense in the league and he's
the whole reason. I there's a precedent for that, but
I wouldn't put him on my ballot, I don't think,
but like you know, he sort of was on our
ballots for a lot of last year, so there's sort
of proof of concept there. Zion I think probably is
another one. Uh, just the statistical impact could be ridiculous
if he holds up health wise, Like he's just kind
of been a top ten, top eight, top seven MVP
guy in the past. So that's that's there. There's a
lot of guys that I just wrote off as not
you know, likely to play enough games. So I don't know,
do you have anybody else? Do you have Jaw for example?
I think that would be another name people.
Speaker 1: Might give him consideration. But if he plays enough games
and the Grizzlies are good, that's a good one for sure.
Uh what about so we And of course, uh, I
don't expect him be to play in enough games either.
I'm trying to think of just is could you see
just like, look, they haven't had a league average offense
since like the Cretaceous period. But if the Magic are
all of a sudden good on offense without making any
really offensive focused editions, I know they have KCP Paolo
feels like the kind of the way that tyres Halburton had.
He never gotten injured, party crashed the discussion last year.
I could see him the Magic or top four in
the East. Their offense is around league average, are better.
I could see Polo. He's more efficient than he's ever been.
I could kind of.
Speaker 2: See him entering l That's a good one.
Speaker 1: Here's one you're ready to galaxy brain this Julio Entrism
at his finest. What if the Clippers are just a
top six team without Kawhi Harden just wedges his way
back in there now.
Speaker 2: No no fucking chance. Oh he's thirty five. If we're
gonna pick thirty five years, I got some other ones
i'd put ahead of him. You did, we didn't mention?
I mean, is it Devin Booker is gonna get some
votes splitting with KD? Probably? But I don't know that
either of those two were likely to play enough games.
Speaker 1: I would think Booker probably will. I mean KD did
last year. He was pretty fucking good. I would say
what almost hurts Devin Booker is that the ball is
gonna be out of his hands a little bit less.
Maybe there's the uptick in defense, and his scoring numbers
won't suffer as much. But the addition of Tias Jones
kind of telegram like his best case when surrounded by
like two other stars is, oh he was he could
average twenty seven points and nine assists because he is
their point guard. Yeah, that's just not the case for
him anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, last year might have kind of been his shot
really just because of the situation and the facilitating he
had to do.
Speaker 1: What happens, what just happens? What's more likely? Let's phrase
it this way. Let's say the Lakers are top four
in the West. Is Anthony Davis or Lebron more likely
to be on this ballot? Or is JJ Reddick more
likely to be considered coach for the year? You can
pick one of the.
Speaker 2: If they're top four in the West. I would assume
that that feels to me like Anthony Davis is super
healthy and is maybe defensive Player of the Year and
is like a guy we have to talk about for MVP.
That feels like the most likely of those of those options.
Speaker 1: To me, You're probably right, is there interesting though?
Speaker 2: Because you know, like I can imagine like people wanting
to speak that into existence. Him just being a phenomenal coach,
like out of the gate.
Speaker 1: Is there any of the just like Midt, Like anyone
could bam or Jimmy sneak in here dept. If they're
going to play enough games. I mean, that's not too
much of a concern with bam Well.
Speaker 2: I mean we both think the Calves are gonna be awesome.
I think down ballot, Donovan Mitchell is someone that could
be and you know, somewhere in the six to ten
range potentially.
Speaker 1: That's a great call out because I had him at
some point last season his first team All NBA before
he the games thing kind of undermined him. Yeah, that's
really good, But that's just I struggled. It comes to
this with Devin Booker. I think even with Anthony Davis
and Lebron, when you have another so in Donovan Mitchell's case,
it's just you have these three other super high end players,
any of whom could make it All Stars. Like you
have four guys on that team that could be All Stars.
Shay's case is kind of like that, but because none
of them have been All Stars before, it's kind of
easy to overlook it that those are the situation. I'm
not saying the MVP needs to be like from Giannis
isn't necessarily on a helio centric team. I mean, Jokic
is not helio centric in the conventional sense. So but
it's tough for me because I think about vote cannibalization
where it's like, if you told me Embiid played in
seventy games this year, I probably still wouldn't put him
on this ballot.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's like a non star. It's just
like all of the even if there wasn't all this
talk about preserving him for the playoffs, I just you couldn't.
You couldn't go into this with him on your ballot.
I'm not getting past the game's played thing. I know
I'm fighting the hypothetical here, but yeah, like you, even
if he did play enough, you would assume that, just
like Paul George and Tyry SMAXI, you're gonna have great numbers.
And it's just like that's it's hard to imagine him
winning again. But we don't have to because he's not
gonna play enough games. Anybody else we're not getting to
you mentioned like Bam and Jimmy. I guess I have one.
We haven't said, Steph. But like that's just he's not
I just don't see how that happens.
Speaker 1: Well, isn't It's kind of the same pathways If the
Warriors are in the top six with this current roster,
I guess you could look at it always kaminga most
improved player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just it might be a function of depth
they just have. Yeah, they just started.
Speaker 1: If they have like a top ten offense or something like,
he might be in the discussion of because they have.
I know they have a ton of talent, but it's
none that I think you would guarantee. I mean, I
know Lindy water is the third is like something else,
but like, who on this team do you consider an
elite offensive talent or just like a decidedly above average
offensive talent aside from Steph. And it's okay, buddy healed,
of course, but like that's he does, like the shooting thing.
It's not like he's table setting for people.
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, that that's yeah. So the thing is, like,
what kind of season does Steph have to have individually
to just have better numbers than Jokich, Luca Sga, like
all these guys. Yeah, it's gonna be so hard, And
I think.
Speaker 1: That's what's I think the I kind of even though
I have Gianni's fifth, Like the four players I think
of is like you have to be statistically as good
or better than Yokich, Luca, Sga and Giannis, like the
video game numbers they put up. And with Brunt in okay,
we know the Wemmeny path, he just might have video
game numbers himself with Brunts And it's honestly, Brunts should
probably average thirty points in eight assists this year, and
like that's the number where is oh, you could be
in the MVP does Like if Jason Tatum averaged seven
assists per game last year, I bet you he finishes
inside the top three of MVP. I know that's stupid.
Here here's one is the thing.
Speaker 2: Just we gotta do Tatum here because neither of us
has him in our top five. Both of us think
that the Celtics are going to win a million games
and he's going to be just as good, you know,
probably as last year. Is it just for me? It
was just like, well, I don't I just don't know
what he's got to do, Like I don't think he
has that next level to get up to the you know,
serious conversation that the top like say three or four
occupy here is that kind of where you're at on him.
Speaker 1: I just struggle to pick a nineteen year old to
win mv page. It's pretims, it's still too soon. So
I think his pathway, because I do think he has
a pathway, is that if he you know how we
kind of sore towards let's say, like the latter part
of their playoff run, like if he becomes that level
of playmaker as a default to where it's like, oh,
he just averaged six seven assists per game. That feels
like he's because he's never going to be the most
important defender on this team. He's still a good defender,
and so he when you look at all of these
other players, you would say, I would for the most
part that they're the most important players in two key
areas of the game. And I think for Boston you
could make the case that he's their most important scorer
and passer. But it's more of a stretch than like
when you're like when you're trying to check that second
so and that's maybe that's not a good reason to
leave him off. Some people like to de fall to
the best player on the best team, and if that's
the case, it should be between SGA and Tatum probably
be too. I do have one more I want to nominate.
If I had to put money on a long shot
and I don't bet, but if I had to, just
Zion Williamson. Yeah, just like if the Pelicans are good
and you'll start maybe Herb Jones is one of the
top five centers in the NBA. Who knows at that point.
But seriously, if the Pelicans are we have a lot
of questions about them. But if he's just healthy, and
if you told me their top four in the West,
I know we have our like four teams in some
order in the like OKC, Dallas, Minnesota, Denver done. But
like if you told me New Orleans removed one of
the non OKAC teams from there, it wouldn't shock me.
And I think that would put him kind of similar
to Jaw, that would certainly put him in the discussion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I definitely have him as
an honorable mention too, just like he's another guy that
I think at that's at this stage of the conversation,
which we should probably end soon because we've gone a
half an Hour on One award. I think it's helpful
to look at guys that like that maybe have like
improvement ahead, because really this top group is like, you know,
other than Wemby, throw him out, these guys are like
about as good as you can play, Like, you know, realistically,
it's hard to be any better than these guys have been. Like,
what if Zion really is just gonna hold up and
is in shape and is like recommitted to all the
stuff he hasn't been, Like, there's a possibility he has
another level that we haven't seen yet. And so that
would like, in addition to the Pelicans being kind of
sneaky able to get into that top four if things
go right, like he might just not be done getting better, right, Like,
that's the possibility for him in ways, it's not for
a couple other guys.
Speaker 1: The other thing, too, isn't the pathway we've already seen,
like the in shape, like the post play in tournament
Zion last year. If he's just that for the entire
season of the Pelicans win enough games, what is the
argument against including him in this?
Speaker 2: And what if he's just better than that? Like that,
that's that's totally on the table. I think it's not.
Is it likely, I don't know, but he.
Speaker 1: Becomes like toatistically one of the most valuable room protectors.
Speaker 2: Or something, yeah, whatever, like or he just decides to
rebound or if he you know, I don't think the
shooting components ever come in. It doesn't look like based
on the trends of the last couple of years, but
like he could just average like thirty three a game
and shoot sixty five percent from the field because you
just cannot stop him from finishing at the bucket. Like
that's I don't know, that's a that's that's a play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel like there's probably close to it
is fifteen too big of a number to say not win,
but like that could populate some spot in the top five.
Fifteen might be a realist.
Speaker 2: No, I think that's about right, because that those are
your all NBA teams, and if you're on an All
NBA team, generally speaking, you're like you you're not necessarily
in the top five at any point of the year,
but like you're in the broader conversation for MVP, what did.
Speaker 1: You want to shout out any member of the Kings
really quickly before we move on.
Speaker 2: To no, I think we're good.
Speaker 1: If you want to guess which award is next, since
you haven't seen the order that I put.
Speaker 2: Them in, I'm gonna guess you did Defensive Player of
the Year.
Speaker 1: We've been podcasting together. Some might say for too long.
I would say not long enough. Defensive Player of the Year.
I'll take I'll go first on this one. I have
Bam in what might be an upset because Bam isn't Wemby.
I have Wenby at two. Go bear it three? Do
you just want to give your bat like our ballots
are well, they're actually pretty I thought we had two
of the same guys on it. Your ballot, I find
it absolutely fascinating. I applaud you for your third place pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I go Wemby one, just like the runaway
favorite betting wise right now. And I just you know,
if he blocks five shots a game, I don't know
how you fail to give him a Defensive Player of
the Year. CHET two and Evan Mobley three, I.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm I feel like this might be the most Evan
Mobley stock I've ever had, which is saying something because
like I had a lot, like very early on when
who were his comps? Do you remember like there was
like Kevin Garnett comps and like really early it's like
what kind of players are he going to be?
Speaker 1: It was what if Kevin Garnett and Kevin Durant were
one player.
Speaker 2: So might have had more stock than but got a lot. Well,
and here's the other thing, and I'll give it. I'll
send it back to you because I think you need
to justify this. Bam pick here why well a little
bit over Wemby and Gobert. I guess I don't have
go Bear on my ballot. I probably should, I feel so.
I think, Okay, sees defense is going to be phenomenal.
I think Chet will be have some crazy numbers and
have a lot to do with that. And I think
Cleveland's defense is going to be terrific, and I think
mobilely you know, it's just I'm picking guys I'm fairly
confident other than Wemby, because who knows how the Spurs
defense is going to look. You know, overall, it'll be
great when he's on the floor. Chet and Mobley just
feel like guys that have room to grow are already
really good. I mean, Mobley finished third two years ago, right,
I think it was two years ago, and he's been
an on all years ago, so I'm taking I'm just
stealing your Thunder here with Mobley. I just think those
defenses will be great. They'll be the biggest reasons why
and everybody's tired of voting for Rudy Gobert. So I
think I think that's that explains my ballot essentially, the Chet.
Speaker 1: One I struggle with because not that he won't be
the most important part of a Thunder defense, but it
feels like he could have equals, or that they'll just
be so many players on that team that are as
close to as impactful. I mean, one, if I say
a heart and sign is healthy enough in plays a
ton of time and they're playing together like that's so,
how much credit do you give Chet in that scenario? Yeah,
And then because then he's probably not doing as much
as the like the traditional big man stuff when they
anchor defenses. And then just also you have lou dort
On the Caruso on this team, so that's the him.
It too is just like okay, like you have to
you really you would have to. I have to watch
the games, which we both know I never do right,
and like really see like oh, like oh, Chet's just
really like the one player that you can't lose on
this best defensive team the league, like he doesn't. His
case to being last year is Rudy Gobert to me
is not as clean as Gobear's case to be Rudy
Gobert again this year.
Speaker 2: That's a very good argument that Rudy Gobert is more
likely to be like Rudy Gobert than cheded Olgrin, which.
Speaker 1: Is also why I don't have Gobert. I might have
gotten not I got a little, I guess, hesitant here
of picking him again or putting him higher than third
because I think that his job and I want to
make it clear I'm not trying to move the goalpost,
but I would not have said this last year. I
do think his job just got harder with moving Karl
Anthony Towns. Like in some of those core lineups. If
you're gonna play a ton with Julius Randall, I don't
know if he's gonna have the same level of impact
he might he could win it when shocked me WENBA
two is just again it's the same thing with the MVP.
Are we gonna be able to he's the runaway favorite,
so maybe, but when it comes to actually voting him
to win, like putting him even like even Defensive Player
of the Year, it's, oh, he finished runner up, like
we remember it. But it's not, oh, man, it should
have been. You're not having a huge argument. It's who
should have won? Are we at the point where if
the Spurs are below average defense or if they're fifteenth
or something in defense, we just look and say later
in the ninety nine percent time with Memmi on the floor.
So because it's we don't, we don't view Defensive Player
of the Year and MVP in the same context, like
those rings are everything for MVP when it comes to
Defensive Player of the Year though they don't carry the
same weight for some reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I think the Wemby case, as much
as anything is he's gonna his block numbers are gonna
be just like who knows right, and he's probably gonna
average close to two steals and we're just gonna have
We're gonna spend all year going Wemby's on pace to
be the first since whatever orever probably yeah, to have
this many blocks, this many defensive rebounds, this many steals
like and and you know, well the the like shot
deterrent stuff all, there are gonna be a million more
clips of guys just like not trying him like that.
I bet you that the San Antonio broadcast, Like you
remember how the screen assists became, like the Utah broadcast
could not stop talking about screen assists with Riego Bert
a few years ago.
Speaker 1: I don't remember.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be There's gonna be a stat or like
some term of art that comes comes around to explain
or to quantify, like when Wenby just like makes it
so a guy who otherwise would have tried to shoot
just doesn't like it. Just I don't know, like a
like a total deterrent stat or something like that like that.
Will I just I think the momentum is too great.
I think you're making a mistake not having him number one,
even though I love Bam that you do do so
my case.
Speaker 1: For Bam is one if you're worried about how the
Miami heater are going to perform at that end, they
were six last year while dealing with injuries to Jimmy Butler,
missed a ton of time specifically, Now you have another
year him Hawkes is better. So you lost Caleb Martin,
but like you have Hayward high Smith, so the overall
defense would be just as good. I don't think I
think this could have been the case already. But I
don't even know that who is the who is the
best all round defender in the NBA? Wenby might be
the most dominant in like just as someone who is
going to deter shots, but who is your about the
most all around defender checks the most boxes, does so
at a high level. I don't know that there's a
strong case for anyone other dead Bam. I think you
can mention Mobley. I think he could probably mention Herb
Jones again talking all around, because Herb Jones can do
a lot of the big man stuff in addition to
those conventional perimeter guy stuff. Uh. And that's just if
you're gonna be that guy, because and I think he
became that guy more than ever last year when we
saw him play more of their like he played more
drop coverage, he did more of the traditional rip protecting stuff,
and it was the best defensive season of his career.
And I also and maybe is this two guy yelling
at clouds he's going to be playing theoretically more meaningful
games later in the season than Wemby is coming to
for being like there and if that's not the thing
that Wenby deserves to win, but like having to defend
at a high level, carrying an elite defense, being the
folk crumb of it for a team that's headed to
the playoffs or the play in versus a team that like,
if we're being honest, yeah, the Spurs might have a
pretty high ceiling, but they have a pretty low floor too.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, for.
Speaker 1: Sure that was my case for for BAM. I do
think anyone that you named her, anyone on your ballot
could win it. I struggle with Chet the most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably see that who so well Gobert obviously if
I if I was going to four, I would just
have Gobert there and then probably Bam. Neither of us
has mentioned Anthony Davis, who was like a pretty heavy
factor in this award last year, and you know, still
he might. You know, I think Bam is just better
in space, but like a d is definitely someone you
would throw up there as as like completely as a defender, yeah,
and with clearly like way better rim protection than BAM has.
But yeah, like Bam is kind of a one of
one in terms of guys who can play center credibly
but just guard any position in isolation. So but a
D is like he's not easy to drive around like
that's that's definitely one of the one of the things
that makes him such a consistent anchor of really good defenses.
Speaker 1: And also if we were to, let's if let's frame
this case in the same way we would for MVP,
if you were talking about, well, what are they without him?
Like even when you look at Bam, when you look
at Wemby just having a healthy demo of cell Steph
Cassel there, Jeremy Sohan, who I know is just he's
not the premier wing checker. But there's like no supplementary
defensive talent on the Lakers that you can just absolutely
rely on night and night out. Maybe Jared Vanderbilt if
he's healthy, but he's not gonna play a ton of
minutes because of what he gives back on the offensive
end too. Maybe Gay Vincent if he's healthy, also not
someone who's in net plus on the so how many
minutes does he play? Ad has that MVP type defensive
player of the argument where if the Lakers are good defensively.
It's will look at look at they're good defensively, and
look at what he's defending around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say too. It hasn't always
been the case that the on off numbers have borne
this out, but those we know, those can be noisy.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: The eye test for ad is just like teams play
offense differently when he's in the game versus out. Yeah,
like just it's just fundamentally changes the types of shots
that are like available, and so yeah, he's way up
there for me. We also another name, I mean one
or two years ago, Jared Jackson Junior. If we it's
it's another sort of you gotta bet on Memphis getting
back to where it was. But like if you have
Edie in the middle, and Jared Jackson gets to rove again,
like that he's done it before. Like's not it's not
beyond him. We know that for a fact.
Speaker 1: Do you think Giannis is still capable of winning this award?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's still capable. He'd be another guy that,
like if these ballots went a little longer, you might
throw up there just to be like, hey, he's like
generationally great defensively for basic a decade, like, but I
don't think it's likely, you know, based on last year. Maybe,
but then if you're pricing in some moderate athletic decline,
like maybe not, maybe he's not quite there anymore, but
that you gotta include the name at least, right, do
you know it could be an interesting one, Joelle embiid
just if he plays in enough games in the sense
of okay, they've now, I would assume lighting his offensive load.
Speaker 1: He's even talked about deferring to tyre's maximum. And look,
we saw him being willing to do so in last
year's playoffs at points and now he can just be
more locked in on a possession by possession basis because
he is one of he's not one of the most versatile.
I think there are teams, you know, you go up
against Boston, New York, these teams with like I don't
worry about Milwaukee as much, but like the teams with
stretch bigs where you don't necessarily have someone that you
can hide him on on the perimeter, and New York
might not even like you could put him on Josh Harden,
maybe go that route. He is just dominant when he
is on Like you talk about someone who changes the
way that offense is play. For the most part, he's there.
I would never pick him because of the game's played
thing now, but I almost wonder now if you threw
that out of the equation, it feels like his case
becomes stronger because of how they've simplified in fury his
life on the offensive end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, why can't he be a Brook Lopez type
defensive Player of the Year candidate? You know, like that's
that's the path for him? Og.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wanted to ask you who's the most
likely non big.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess. I guess, well, if o g
wins it, it might be because he's doing like big things.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, carl anthy Towns is the is the real
defensive player of the year Canadate in New York.
Speaker 2: So if we just go guards, it's probably Jalen Suggs.
I would I would think, like, but I I don't
know how high you could realistically rank him, just because
I mean, it's just so hard like we did. We
did it with the Marcus Smart thing, but that had
a lot to do with positional versatility too. I don't
know that we were gonna see a six four six
five guy win it for quite some time. I mean
Herb Herbs another one.
Speaker 1: I think her well, Herbs a five, so he doesn't count.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, so you keep saying this like I
know that there was the stuff about like he's gonna
do some center. Yeah, I don't know he's gonna guard
the bigs or to be the rim protector or whatever.
Like do you really think that's how they're gonna do
it like that. I don't think that's legit.
Speaker 1: I think it's semi legit. I'm more so trolling the
Pelicans messaging as well as the fans that are sipping
on it. Of just like Herb is a five, this
isn't gonna do anything to what Zion does type deal.
And it's even if that's one hundred percent the case,
you don't want Herb Jones playing that much center like
you just like you it if.
Speaker 2: Only because like he's so good on the ball in space,
like you're just taking that away.
Speaker 1: Like and you can't do something less versatile, then almost
in there. But I will say, if we're talking perimeter players,
I think so the path to the perimeter player winning
it would be the Herb Jones or oganinobi mold where
it's they can do other things like guarding up and
that if we're gonna see like Jalen Suggs all defensive
candidate for sure, but in terms of any defensive player year,
I'd agree with you because it feels like he doesn't
necessarily scale up all that well. It would have to
be and this might even be a stretch, would be
if Alex Caruso from last season played like thirty five
minutes a game on a tea that was relevant. I
don't think one Alex cors is gonna play thirty five
minutes a game on this It'd be really funny though,
if he ends up being like seems more valuable than
Chet and ends up on this ballot. The Thunder just like,
are they just gonna have the best defense? Don't you?
Speaker 2: I think so, don't you? I think that's the I mean,
Minnesota was so far ahead of the field last year
that it's like, should you just pick them again even
if they're five or ten percent worse? But the Thunder
just their depth of great defenders is like, I just
they they're always gonna have like where are the weak links? Like,
I mean like there's always gonna be a relative week link.
But where's the actual weak link of the guys that
are gonna play?
Speaker 1: How many players do they have who could feasibly make
an All defense team in any given season? At least three?
Maybe four? Right? I mean, if you want to include
Hart and start maybe maybe because I would include the
locks is not to make it. But Caruso, Dort and
Chet could absolutely make an All defense team in any
given season. Yeah, and if there are people who made
a case for say, right last year, I wasn't one
of them. You have Jay Dubb and then Hartenstein, Like
there are people who thought that he could have been
that level player. So I would say four is like
maybe that's the Like, they have four guys that could
just any given season make an All defense team. That's
even the.
Speaker 2: Guys you don't I mean, Cason Wallace can guard like
he he's not gonna play enough and like he's fairly
limited in who he can guard.
Speaker 1: Of basketball at large?
Speaker 2: Who else do we not mention?
Speaker 1: Just is there a perimeter player that we're for forgetting
because we have herb O g And that was those
are the only two perimeter players we mentioned, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Herbo, I mean.
Speaker 1: Are you ready, Yeah, Amen Thompson.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah right, both Thompson's sar Thompson too.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, let's not let's not pick any pistons here,
let's not get carry it away.
Speaker 2: We haven't said Draymond Green, He's probably not gonna play enough.
But like just on reputation alone, he warrants a mention here.
Speaker 1: And if I I question his IQ at this stage
because he thinks kaminga is a three. So I'm a
little concerned.
Speaker 2: You think his processing speed has slowed down a little bit,
It's possible.
Speaker 1: What I mean, if he played in seventy games, is there.
Speaker 2: He'd be an all defensive candidate, like I think he's
still and especially if he played a lot more center,
because I just I think that you know, everybody, name me,
who's the last guy who's not actually a center that
when they play, you know, their coach wants to play
them up, they're like, I'm good, I love it. Like
everybody's like I don't want to do this. Even Anthony
Davis doesn't want to be a center. It's like a
running joke for ten years. Like I do think if
Draymond played a lot, if he played seventy games, you'd
have to have him on an all defensive team. I
don't know if you'd ever have him on your on
your DPO why ballot.
Speaker 1: But well, what if he plays in seventy games, the
Warriors win thirty and their defense is seventeen, then yeah,
just gets it.
Speaker 2: Because of how bad would they be without him?
Speaker 1: If anyone else that you think we're do you hear
my dogs just there I rate in the back.
Speaker 2: They are not happy with the Draymond Green mention. It's
pretty clear.
Speaker 1: I think that's do we forget anyone? I mean, Jade
McDaniels as a perimeter player, would you consider him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd be on the list there of guys that
you know we should mention but just aren't gonna win it. Yeah,
I mean normally you'd start throwing out the Kawha's and
the Paul George's and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I think anybody in Boston win it.
Speaker 2: I mean, Derek White. We haven't said Derek White or
Drew Holliday yet, but they're not I mean vote cannibalization
guards like there's all these like tick the boxes that
going against them. But if you're talking to the best
perimeter defenders, you have to say those names.
Speaker 1: Uh I think that. I don't. I don't think we're forgetting.
We're probably forgetting someone Atgreed, I mean per.
Speaker 2: A minute Jonathan Isaac, but he's not. I mean, they
don't think he's gonna play more than the fifteen point
eight minutes he played last year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how like, how dominant would he need to be
in sixteen minutes a game. Let's say he plays in
seventy five though, Like, you can't win that award if
you're playing.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think you can. I mean, what was
it like with him on the floor last year? The
defensive rating was like one oh two, which is like
six points better than the Timberwolves. And when he was
off it was like one twelve, which would have been
like eighth in the league. So it's just like, when
he's on the floor, you can make the case he's
the most impactful defensive player in the league. It's just
like it's about a quarter of the game is like
where he maxes out. So how valuable is that?
Speaker 1: I have a theoretical but this player plays in at
least twenty eight minutes a game, his team has a
top five defense. Could Derek Lively the second make a
push here.
Speaker 2: Oh that's fun. Yeah, yeah, I could see that. I
could definitely see that because like if if the MAVs
have a top five defense, it's gonna be because they
get like elite, Like, you know, him alone makes a
good defense wior stuff.
Speaker 1: Don't you think I would worry about like sort of
the co opt between him and Daniel Gafford to where
it's gonna split the minutes basically down the middle. Again,
then you can't pick either one wildly certainly more versatile,
like they both bring sort of the like the verticality element.
So I think he would have to not only will
the Maps have to have an elite defense, but I
think the bigger swing with him would be, well, how
many minutes is this guy playing? Because there's so many
different things they could do, not just play Gafford, but
if they want to play some PJ at the five,
or if they want Kliba as the loane big for
like two minutes, five minutes a game, whatever.
Speaker 2: Dwight Powell needs this needs this piece.
Speaker 1: I think still Kawhi on the Clippers, you think he'll
hit sixty five games?
Speaker 2: I think he's probably gonna hit like eighty five.
Speaker 1: I feel really bad for him. By the way, I'm
not I make jokes about the availability, but it's not
I don't want him to be injured. And I do
find it funny, not funny. I find it odd how
how easily fans just assume that players don't want to
play basketball, Like you actually think that Kawhi is faking
degenerative need or that he is somehow here through a
fault of his own.
Speaker 2: Who's making that case, whore?
Speaker 1: That's why.
Speaker 2: So this is the problem. No one, no serious person
actually thinks that, Like, so get it out of your brain.
It's not a serious person's opinion.
Speaker 1: Well even isn't a little dude. So it's like, how
much blamed you assigned to Joelle Embiid for his health
issues because people think that he hasn't put in the work.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean more than I would assigned to Kauhi
for his just just because of like all the stuff
you would hear and read about Embiids, like when he
was younger, like his eating habits and his conditioning stuff.
And it's just like, well, you're not you're not helping yourself.
I don't know if you're hurting yourself, but like you
never heard anything about that type of thing with Kawhi, right,
Like he's always in great shape and like puts the
work in and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, people don't like him because he doesn't talk, he
doesn't emote the way they want him to. And the
helicopter story from a couple of years ago, it was
objectively funny too.
Speaker 2: That's a boss move to just commute, what is the
next award? You picked Rookie of the Year next?
Speaker 1: I think you're wrong.
Speaker 2: Oh damn it, you're right.
Speaker 1: What's your ballot look like?
Speaker 2: All right? I got zach Edie one, Read Shepherd two,
Zachary Resa che was just like a shrug emoji. Third pick.
I don't know to me, like the Edie and Shepherd thing, Uh,
I think Shepherd's gonna be the best player in the class.
But Edie just has like a red carpet rolled out
for a huge role like and to be like a
really conspicuously big reason why Memphis potentially is going to
be good. So I just think it's easier for me
to think or to imagine Edie winning it, even if like,
give you're giving me the next five years of both
of these guys. I'm taking read Shepherd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have so my ballot has read it number one,
because I think that he's just going to be, by
far and away the most dominant rookie. I worry about
the opportunity that he'll have, as you kind of outlaid,
I have Eatie two. Just I've watched him, and I
see it, and I'm just assuming he's gonna play a
bunch of minutes for a good team. And that's part
of what intrigued me so much about Case and Wallace
last year. Not I didn't pick him Brook of the Year,
but I mean, and also Chet of course, and Wenby
was not on a good team. But I just isn't
it their chance that like he has a mud like
we're so many people are kind of penciling him in
where it feels like he's a consensus top two choice,
but there's like the real potential for this to look
egregious six months from now. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, so I think it was either a hot take
or like a bold prediction where I where I made
the case that Shepherd's gonna win it, and like to
make that argument, you have to say he's gonna be
so good. I think what I said it was probably
a hot take, like he's just gonna be undeniable. So
where all this stuff about, Like the Rockets have seventeen
guys that are twenty three and unders that all need
to play. They also have Fred van Fleet who's really,
really good, so the opportunity won't be there. The case
you just have to make is he'll be so good
and so valuable on both ends of the floor that
he just has to play. And he played is enough
to where maybe it's even more than Edie does, because
rookie biggs just don't tend to have high minute totals,
so like it could look bad if you know, Aman
Thompson just needs to play thirty five minutes a night
and Jalen Green is incredible and like the just minutes
aren't there, But like I don't think. I don't think
picking Reed Shepherd first for Rookie of the Year is
ever gonna look ridiculous just because we're gonna flash forward
and he's like, how is he not gonna be one
of the best players in this class? Like down the line,
I just don't see it.
Speaker 1: I meant, more so through the lens of Edie to
where it's what if he can't log a ton of
minutes for a good Grizzlies team, not because he's bad,
but it's just they're better off with Brett and Clark
out there with Santi aldam or they're better off with
Jaron Jackson Junior is the lone big just for this season.
Speaker 2: I mean in that sense the preseason in Summer League,
because in which he played like one game, right, Edie did,
are doing a lot of work because the profile of
a fairly immobile big center who doesn't stretch the floor
having a big role in today's NBA is like, like,
who is it that's especially young guys, Like I don't know,
you have to look at Lively, I guess, but Lively
is such a different caliber of athlete, you know, the
way he moves is just much more suited to the
modern game. Eadie's Like, if Edie does really well, I
think it's gonna be really fun because he'll be like
such a throwback bruiser just I'm bigger than you type
player and we don't have a lot of those guys.
But yeah, totally, like he could just we could know
in the second week of the season, like he just can't,
Like he's just a traffic cone like in space he
just can't move laterly enough to like be out there
for big minutes, and the and the Grizzlies could say like,
we'll just play Jaron Jackson at center, like we're good
with that. So yeah, totally he could. He there's risk
there too. I made it out like, oh, it's guaranteed,
but yeah, there's risk for sure. No.
Speaker 1: I think you framed it as it feels like him
or Shepherd will be the picks and Eadie might be
a lot of the defaults because I think the opportunity
is more etched in own for him. I just think
read Shepherd is going to be so good that yea
by Jalen Green, as you kind of mentioned, So I
have Cody Williams' third. A lot of that's opportunity. A
lot of that's also I had him number one on
my board, I probably would have read Shepherd number one
if I was redoing it. I think there's gonna be
more to his offensive game. A lot of people think
that he like won't have necessarily the on ball kind
of speed or versatility. I really don't know if he does,
but I kind of see the skeleton of someone who
can and I think those types of touches will be
there for him just based off what this Jazz team is.
I think he might be able to shine on the
defensive end Taylor Hendrix and Walker Kessler to do a
lot of heavy lifting, but when it kind of comes
to having to defend some of the top tier assignments
on the outside, that will fall on him. But I think, honestly,
this is a class when you kind of factor in, well,
how do you feel about this player, and then how
do you feel about this player's role? You could probably
could You could talk me to Donovan klingon if Portland
decides to like consolidate your big man rotation at some point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he could. He could have for sure
like that. He's down my ballot too, on the theory
of like you gotta if you trade Aighton and Robert
William then just hand him the job and see what happens,
and then you could have like a Walker Kesseler type case,
you know, where he's probably not gonna win it, but
he's he's up there. I'm trying to think, who else,
what do you think about Khalil? Where if he or
I've said I've seen Khalil and kellel I don't know
which it is. I think maybe I said it wrong.
Speaker 1: I think it might be I think it's I've been
saying it Khalil. I could look up the phonetic pronunciation.
Speaker 2: I think it's anyway where I think it's. I think
it's Kalel, like kind of like the Superman thing.
Speaker 1: For what it's worth, Basketball Reference has it as Khalil
okay Uh.
Speaker 2: If he ends up getting a starting job at some
point in the season, I don't know how likely that
is anymore. There was a lot of buzz about that
he's he's I don't think he can win it, but
he's someone that like might make an All rookie team.
Just want to throw his name out there. I guess
I should justify Resache. I think he's got the opportunity.
I should think.
Speaker 1: By the number one big being on the rookie isn't
that weird?
Speaker 2: Like what if that doesn't tell you about this draft class?
I don't know what does. Maybe there's a little Brandon
Miller theory where it's like, as a prospect, he was
viewed as like a low ceiling he can do a
little bit of this, a little bit of that, not
going to be great at like the things you want
from that position. Maybe he's got a little more on
ball stuff than we think, Like, you know, it doesn't
get a.
Speaker 1: Cance to show it is that he would almost So
he has to be great in areas people typically don't
focus on where it's like when it comes to rookie Biggs, it's, oh,
we recognize how valuable they are on defense. So he's
gonna have to be an exceptional perimeter defender and an
exceptional shooter and cutter and floor runner and transition and
like none of those are traditionally things that what gets
people Rookie of the Year is Oh, look at his
assist or look what he did on the ball. Look
what he did is the defensive anchor down low. That's
not to say he shouldn't win if he had the
type of season. I just I don't know what his
role is going to be on a Hawks team that
has an incentive to not lose.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, the thing is that all those all those
things you mentioned, like those are the things he's pretty
good at, right or theoretically is pretty good at it
on the margin stuff. So maybe if he's like a
star in his role, you know, as a cutter, as
a spot up shooter. As a defender, he finishes third
like he can't. I don't see I don't see a
path to winning it. It just feels this will this
is guarantees will be wrong, like there will be someone
that crashes the Edie Shepherd twosome.
Speaker 1: Here are we sleeping on any of the Wizard's rookies
here where it's sheer opportunity Sorrow, I mean four plays
a four or five whatever. Bub Carrington might be a
nice sleeper if they're gonna give him the reins of
the offense for you know, at least twenty minutes a game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I could, I mean it. Yeah, we probably
went too far without mentioning Sar just because he's got
a play right one. So there's he's got that over
like Shepherd for example, or even Eadie, like there are
scenarios where they don't play a lot. Sorrow is just
gonna play the whole year if he's healthy. So maybe
that gets the counting numbers up to where he has
to be on the ballot.
Speaker 1: Do you know who could have an interesting case if
what he's doing in the preseas he's and holds not
Dalton connect Sorry like Ryan Dunn. Yeah. Yeah, Like if
he's just pointing the way he is, he's going to
be a closing lineups.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if you're in that for a top five Western
Conference team as a rookie, you probably have some Okay, oh,
we only average eighteen minutes a game, I'd probably just
pick him at that.
Speaker 2: I feel like if we had done this, I don't know,
a month or two ago, we would have mentioned Rob
Dillingham just on the theory of he's going to run
the second unit. He's going to have, you know, might
average fourteen points a game. And now it's kind of
looking like that role has already shrunk. Uh So just
you know, shout out to what used to be Rob
Dillingham's fringe rookie of the year case it doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1: There's already a swell of Eves Mecie is better than
Daniel Tye. And so what if he ends up starting
at center for the bet like they decided to start
him by the end of the year. I can't I'm.
Speaker 2: Not out of the question. Daniel Tye has not looked
good in preseason that that was one of the things
I was watching some tape and reading up it's just like, yeah,
this no one thought this was gonna work, but it's
really not going to work. I don't think with him
in the middle.
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a team that should I mean,
there are two teams that could theoretically give huge opportunities
to their rookies. I just don't think they're going to
but modest Buzzellis in Chicago, and then uh T, John
Salon and Charlotte. I think Charlotte's like pretty deep and
while they are rebuilding, it's okay the Miles Bridges. If
Mark Williams is healthy, of Nick Richards Grant Williams, so
he feels more of like, oh, he'll be a main
part of what they're doing post trade deadline or post
All Star rate or something. Yeah, but boy, don't really
have an excuse for not playing Bouzellis a ton though
when you look at the makeup of their roster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was gonna say for both of
those guys, they just feel like they're really not ready yet.
Even if they did have the opportunity, which which they
should right at least after the trade deadline, they should
both be starting and playing a ton. But like they
both feel kind of a long ways with bizellis looked
interesting though in some of those summer league games, Like
I could see it.
Speaker 1: And what he does is predicated working on the ball,
and I don't know that he's going to have like
t Jon's law if he got a shit ton of
minutes and like the way he's been popping threes and
just hustling down the floor if he was playing, that
would shock me. You know, we haven't mentioned so Ron
Holland we haven't mentioned That's not that he's just not
gonna have the opportunity. I think that's been pretty clearly
laid out. What def Castle? What is what is the
pathway for him doing it?
Speaker 2: I just don't I don't know if the offensive game
is like, is just anywhere close to good enough to
get real consideration yet, you know what I mean? Like
and really like I could see him just being marginalized
because you brought in Chris Paul to join Trey Jones
and like those guys are just gonna be on the ball,
so Castle, who might like the way for Castle to
do it would be he gets a ton of on
ball reps and it like we leave this season thinking
like he actually is going to be the point guard
on this team going forward, right, I just don't know
if we're going to get a chance to like sort
of test that theory this season.
Speaker 1: Would you care? I guess which award is next?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll guess. I think we're good there. I suspect
you went with most of the Ooh, I think you
went most Improved next.
Speaker 1: Wow, you're four for four. We only have a fourth award.
We have problems. Yeah, seventy minutes in.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately this one is well, we don't need to make
this one crazy long.
Speaker 1: I don't think well, most improved players, So my turn
to go first. Yeah, you're you're a poser. You do
not have Jalen Williams's number one. I have JDub number one,
Wemby number two, and then Jalen Sugg's number three. And
this is an edification I did in our like hot
Takes pouse. I said Jalen Suggs was gonna win it.
And the more I thought about how I feel about
him doing more on ball stuff in Orlando's offensive ecosystem,
either one don't feel great about it or two really
don't think it's gonna come to fruition in the regular season,
so I backed off a little bit there, but I still,
as you can tell, have plenty of Jaalen sugs stock.
Speaker 2: I mean, I fully support Jada being number one. For you,
it is the thinking that because I think I think
it was a hot take, but I sort of believe
it anyway, that he's going to be an All Star
this year or play at an All Star level. Is
that a big enough jump from where he is for you?
Or are you thinking the jump's gonna be even bigger.
Speaker 1: I think the jump's gonna be bigger to where it's
he's gonna average over twenty points a game? Or was
he at nineteen point seven last year? So it's like
he'll that'll tick up. But I think the two things.
I think people are gonna kind of start to understand
his defensive value a little bit better this year after
watching him for the first two seasons, And I really
think the two things will be he'll continue to level
up the self creation and so let's say he's only
only averaging twenty two points or something, So it's just
like a what was he he was at nineteen last year?
Speaker 2: I think it was like nineteen it was nineteen four
and a half assists, four rebounds with like a sixty
two percent true shooting or something stupid, Like I just
think there's.
Speaker 1: A chance he could be more efficient, and they're look,
they were already doing this when Josh Giddy was there.
It's like, you're going to run these units without Shay.
That's the default now. I mean, Isaia hart Sign's injured
to start the year, and that's not Alex Caruso's am I, Oh,
it's not Cason Wallace's m o. So like who else
is running? Who's your backup? Like who's your not back
up to shape? Like who is your backup primary playmaker?
Who's your second best playmaker on this team? Maybe it's Hartenstein,
but like in terms of running this stuff and end,
it's John Williams. Is it? Who am I missing?
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, it's him for you, That's just I mean,
and that was I feel like we've gone so many
laps on this, not you and I, but just like
he failed as a as a secondary creator in the postseason,
and like that's what the thunder needs, Like all right,
give him an off season and like another year of
like progress as he ages, and like I I I
never really understood the like the thunder need to go
out and get that other creators, Like, how about just
give this guy who keeps getting better by leaps and
bounds like one more summer to prove he can do it? Like,
I don't have any doubt that he's gonna be a
phenomenal like secondary creator with SGA and like the second
unit that he runs will be good, Like I just
think so, I'm just making your case for you and
making me not having him on my ballot even stupider.
Speaker 1: But well, I can see it the case we both
had him on our ballots last year, did you pick him? Probably? Uh,
But like the case against him would be, can he
make a jump that's meaningful enough relative to him working
off such a high baseline right now? I think he
can because look at the jump he made from year
one to year two. I'm not expecting the same size.
But what, like, you know, kind of the self created
directionality part of his offensive game. When it came to scoring,
it was, oh, is he going to be able to
expand that? And then last year he's hitting step backs.
There's like more directionality to his dribble drives. So I
would expect him. Yeah, it's probably harder to continue that trajectory.
But even if it's I don't want to say marginal,
but it's this can be gradual improvement now, and if
you're improving off of that super high baseline, I think
it's gonna.
Speaker 2: Count for something. Yeah, and I think the narrative aspect
of the voting could be there for him because the
thunder will be so good and there'll be a lot
of like, well we already know about SGA, Like who
else can we focus on if we're like doing our
you know, our long forms or our report. Yeah, sure,
could be chat.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he should be on here. So you
have Wemby second, I have Wemby first. I just we've
already talked about him enough. It's like the numbers are
gonna be insane. Supposedly supposedly put on twenty five pounds.
I'm never ever, ever gonna believe that a human can
put on that much weight in that little time. I
don't care how tall you are.
Speaker 1: First of all, it's not safe. And even unless it's waterweight,
like I've done the game ten pounds in one day
thing when I've gone on like eating binges, but there's
no even if you were just juicing. There's like twenty
five pounds in two months. You can't do it.
Speaker 2: It's not possible. So miss me with all that stuff.
Everybody that's reporting that I have another Jalen second, I
have Jalen Johnson second, and it's it's kind of a
two pronged thought process. One is massive improvement last year,
and I think it's like people will catch up to
that because nobody watched the Hawks, and he's gonna be
even better this season, partly because de Jontay Murray is gone,
and just the opportunities I think for him are really
gonna be there, whether that's as like a pick and
roll partner for Trey Young or as just the guy
you give the ball to as like a second you know,
we talked about secondary creators a lot for this award,
but he might just be someone that you know, is
more than a transition finisher, more like he can pass.
Like there there's a real path towards like twenty two
five and seven or something like like or maybe even
more more rebounds than that, but like twenty two and
five is totally plausible with a bunch of other stuff,
and that's gonna seem like a huge leap to everybody
that didn't really pay that much attention to him last year.
The injury, like you know, kind of kept him more
under the radar for most improved than he probably should
have been. And I have Jonathan kaminga third one to
stay on brand, and two because I do think it
does look to me from the preseason like he is
gonna let it rip from three when he's open, and
that's just gonna juice the numbers. I have major questions
about his defense. I just I don't know how he
doesn't finish with more than twenty a game, and you
know he'll be efficient because he has He just gets
so many dunks. He set the franchise record for dunks
last year. If like, if he actually improves defensively, then
we're talking about like a real, like all star level player.
But I just think the numbers will be there. It's
gonna be more of like a cosmetic improvement because opportunity
potentially a contract year if he doesn't get an extension,
so that's always motivating. So I like him at number three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's interesting. I almost would want to gravitate toward
Pods a little bit more because I think he's gonna
have to shoulder more playmaking. But I see you pay
second year players though I broke that for Jada. I
said that I was being stupid about it, and so
part people will say that is me being inconsistent. I
call that evolving.
Speaker 2: I call it growth.
Speaker 1: You've grown, Uh, I have the Wenby stuff is tough
because Okay, if his numbers go up, does that counts enough? Like,
what is the area of improvement where? Okay, he could
I think if he plays more minutes and doesn't improve
a damn thing, the counting stats might warrant him being
most improved player. If I was, I have him too,
So I'm gonna I'm about to make the case. Is okay,
he cuts down on the turnovers and there's like, okay,
there's fewer. You know, he's taken like twenty three footers
with nineteen seconds left on the shot clock, and he's
being more of a play finisher because he can now
in certain instances. I don't like, what is where does
the improvement come on defense for him?
Speaker 2: I mean make a little like, yeah, I know that's
it has to be on offense somewhere. I think he
could he could get his like if he shoots in
the mid to high thirties on decent volume from three,
Like that's massive because I think his two point finishing
is going to be substantially improved just because Chris Paul's there.
He's gotten stronger to whatever degree you think that's real,
he'll just be a better finisher. But like if the
three point shooting becomes a real thing, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: They cause he shot way better on pull ups than
catching shoot slash.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like not how it's supposed to work.
So it like that would be because we like for
Sugs for example, last year, like he actually gained a
new skill, like he could shoot threes and he couldn't before.
Like that's that's where if you have Wemby actually add
a skill or two and the number spike, which they will,
then it's like, well he should just win it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be with you there with Sugs too. It's
so what's the skill he could add that? Like it
feels like maybe last year could have been his best
chance at winning it. I think if the assist numbers
come up and you look at it and it's, oh,
like he ran a bunch more picking rolls and it
improved the offense, like he scored not just more points
per possession, but he's making better passes, Like can he
be more of the methodical, slowed down creator. I still
think he can be. I'm just curious. There's been a
lot of Anthony Black momentum there, and so I'm worried
that they're gonna get too far away from the Jael
and Suggs experimentation. I'm also just worry that this basing
still isn't going to be good enough for anyone there
to kind of make a leap. I still have him
third because I'm a really big believer it. Like the
more thing about them, like should he be third, Like
his defensive like impact mic go down because of KCP
being there a little bit. But I just think he
is has shown that he can get better in wholesale arenas,
and I would expect that to continue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just easier to bet on a guy that's
already sort of shown you that he can put the
work in and just improve something that he couldn't do before.
I have Jada just in my honorable mention. Obviously, Evan
Mobley is someone I thought about just because I've obviously
picked him for you know, a way up in Defensive
Player of the Year and all that stuff, like he
has if what we've talked about it on another pod,
like what if he shoots five or six threes a
game and you know, hits him at a decent clip,
there's your new skill. And he's just at an age
where like an All Star jump seems totally on the table.
So I don't know if he can win it. I
don't know what he'd have to do to win it,
considering he's already been like fairly highly decorated with like
DPOY consideration and stuff like that. I made an All
Defensive team, so his bar is kind of high too.
But I could just see him taking a big step.
It just feels like about the right time for him.
And it's not like it's like it's a mystery what
he needs to improve at this point because we've been
focusing on it for so long. So like, you know,
if he's a way better facilitator, shooter, more decisive offensive player,
then it's like, yeah, that's that's what we've been asking for.
Then here you go, here's your reward.
Speaker 1: Could you see Scotty Barnes getting back into this discussion.
But if he's averaging like twenty five and eight. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of the Jalen Johnson theory of
like he was just in it last year and then
didn't play enough. I kind of feel like Barnes is
already regarded as too good, you know what I mean,
Like the numbers could get there. If it's twenty five
and eight, then.
Speaker 1: When's the last time, like someone who's already made an
All Star team one Most Improved Player. I'm sure it's happened,
but when's the last time? I mean?
Speaker 2: Man, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Normally it's they're kind of associated with, oh, this player
ascended into All Star territory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like well, Jalen Johnson last year is like definitely
a type of like nothing and then oh my god,
like not not all star level. That's one type. And
then the other one is you go from where Johnson
was last year, for example, to an All Star thing.
I don't know there's been an All Star that's one.
I guarantee someone has won Most Improved after making an
All Star Game. But then you're talking about like an
All NBA season.
Speaker 1: So the marketing made the All Star Game when he
won it, right, But that was his first All Star
appearance that year. So I'm talking about like being like,
you know this, Remember the Steph case during his unanimous
MVP season. I think in that case, I'm sure you
did which I don't think it was an unreasonable one.
People have made the case for Luca before. Even so
some people make a Joelle and b case last year.
I thought that was a thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just it's not wrong, but like that
feels like what that That's just not what that award.
Speaker 1: Is meant to. But there's the school of thought where
it's it's harder to improve at a superstar level than
it is a different baseline. Two other names that I
kind of considered, and I'm still regret not putting one
of these in the top three. So there's Kay Cunningham,
not the one I regret, but I could see it,
and I really just LaMelo Ball could win this thing.
Speaker 2: Oh that's fun there. Well there's your I mean, there'sf
Trey Murphy, someone I just want to throw out there.
That's kind of more of an opportunity thing. I think
it's hurt now, But like.
Speaker 1: You think brandon Ingram's backup could win.
Speaker 2: I think the guy that finally gets brandon Ingram traded.
Who else are we not thinking of?
Speaker 1: There's I mean there's probably a ton there's what would
the betting odds say? So we have do we name all? Oh?
So Josh Getty's third fourth in betting odds?
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just gonna be a numbers thing, right, Like,
I guess I could see it. I can understand why
he's up high.
Speaker 1: So we mentioned of the top So that's four or five, six, seven,
eight of the top eight. We mentioned seven, So that
should make us feel good. Emmanuel quickly, is it ninth?
That's an interesting one. I don't see it.
Speaker 2: I mean I can see Barrett having a better chance,
as like, based on what he showed for half a
season last year, he looked like a different player. If
he does that for a full year, that would be something.
Speaker 1: Kobe White's on the list again, I have trouble seeing
that with Josh Giddy in the fold. Yeah, ooh, palla.
Benkaro is a good one. But that's another case of oh,
he already made the All Star team. I'm not saying
he can't win it, but that's a like, what if
he just has sixty three true shooting in his averaging
like twenty seven points a game.
Speaker 2: Well, what if let's stick with the magic. What if
Franz just does all the same stuff he did last
year but shoots forty percent from three, Like he's gonna
make an All Star team. Like, there's that's a jump, LaMelo.
Speaker 1: We talked about Joen Green is I what is that
just he you know, he looks he looks pretty good
in preseason, So is that does that count towards his case?
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I don't know. That's a hard one.
Speaker 1: That's like the classic, oh, working off. I know he
finished the season better, but like, yeah, the classic oh,
this dude was so bad and.
Speaker 2: He won't have the lowest true shooting in the league,
so it'll be like bottom ten and that'll be I mean.
Speaker 1: Sot Pods is on this list too, I could I
could see it. Denny Avdiya, that's I think his best
shot was last year.
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's a year late. I feel like what
about I mean, we've we've already mentioned a lot of
second second year players. Well, either of the Thompson's, I
think like could just have a huge le.
Speaker 1: What's coming on with a star Thompson? Right, now, like
is he even gonna be playing? Like what's going on
with him?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, Like Ron Holland scares me there
because they could just look at Ron Holland and say,
like you kind of do a lot of the Star
Thompson stuff, except you have like a more projectable offensive future.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, just like Asar Thompson's been out and
we just don't. It's just not like the clarification of
you know, we know Amen Thompson. It seems like he's
gonna play, but it doesn't seem like the blood clot
issue might be resolved, and so that would be my Oh,
I didn't know that. I thought we were good to
go there, unless my information is outdated and you have
names from this Cam Thomas that also feels a year late.
I guess if he improves as a passer, uh Andy Simons,
that feels egregious.
Speaker 2: That's weird. Why would that hawks?
Speaker 1: Is semi interesting? Chet Holmgren And then the other two,
the final two that are on the betting odds list,
Grady Dick and Derek Lively. The second I'm very like
what Derek Lively think has the easier path, But I'm
almost just thinking what does improve to look like like
he's not gonna have a chance to meaningfully expand his
offensive usage in Dallas.
Speaker 2: That's I mean, if he wins Defensive Player of the
Year like like you think he is, then I could
see it. Grady Dick is just one. I don't I
don't know, Like that's he's got to shoot forty from
three and average five assists, Like I guess like somebody's
gonna have to do it in that fifth starter spot
for the Raptors.
Speaker 1: See, if I was confident he was gonna be healthy,
I will continue to throw Devin Massel into this. Oh
you only haven't mentioned And I'm wondering if this is
a there's too many guys in front of him in
the offensive pecking order Keegan Murray. Yeah, like the defense.
If he plays continues to improve on defense, and just
like the offensive numbers uptick as it'll probably be more
of Okay, he never has the ball in his hands
based off who's around him, that's fine, that would not
surprise me.
Speaker 2: That's the hard part is just like where do the like,
it's hard to imagine he averages more points than last year,
like just the just it's a you know, it's a
numbers game, like where do the shots come from?
Speaker 1: Well, you know how it happens. They wind up trading
Monk to get in like feel a bigger need?
Speaker 2: Yeah, possible anybody else. I think Keegan Murray's gonna be
a significantly improved player. I just don't think he can
win it. Just that's.
Speaker 1: The nicest thing I think you've ever said about the Kings.
Murray's not going to win this award, but I'm not
talking about him right now.
Speaker 2: Have you seen, man, there's some uh the darn Fox stuff.
I feel like people are too low on Fox right
now too. Yeah, anyway, all right, that that covers most improved.
I'm gonna continue my streak here that your next award
is six Man End of the Year.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're right. I hate you six Man
of the Year, your ballot grant. I cheated on this one.
For anyone who's not watching, you're welcome.
Speaker 2: That's I I approved it. I got Dante DiVincenzo one,
Malik Monk two, Duce McBride three.
Speaker 1: Number three. Is you won my heart with that one.
I don't know if that's what you're trying to do, but.
Speaker 2: It's an opportunity thing, like who else is playing off
the bench year? Yeah, okay, well I'm not gonna put
him on my ballot.
Speaker 1: I mean, like my problem with a Knicks player winning
six Man of the Year is just like his Tim's
gonna play like especially now the way the roster's built,
Like all the starters are going to average forty nine
minutes a game, right, So yeah.
Speaker 2: Well so well Deuceduce went like a month average in
forty four or whatever it was. Yeah, he's he'll get
his He'll get his opportunity, so that'll juice his averages.
He just needs to not have to start because of
injury for enough games to qualify.
Speaker 1: You're I think, And oh, I was going to ask
you about your Dante pick. Yeah, I considered him. He's
number two in my ballots. Like we were part way
what in like, how do you separate him and the
NAS read? Like, what is the case for him winning
it over? NAS read again?
Speaker 2: Well, this is the problem is I had nas Read
on my ballot initially, and then we talked and like
I just was like, I can't have two Timberwolves, So
I just picked Devincenzo. The thought for him is I
think there's several ways for him to potentially have a
huge impact. One is just the high volume three point
shooting that showed up last year with the Knicks. Two
is like starting to look like the Wolves are going
to put the ball in his hands a little bit
more on second units now. Julius Randall probably will get
some time there too. The way things get staggered, like
maybe dolling him like you know, figures it out or
is enough of an impact guy at some point where
you don't have Devincenzo on the ball because I don't
I don't love him there. I don't think that's really
playing to his biggest strengths. And then defensively, like he
can be really disruptive and kind of give that second
unit a real like you know, you have him out
there with Alexander Walker, there's gonna be some chaos happening defensively,
so like I can just just feels like he's positioned
really well to a lot of paths to winning this.
And then Monk is just gonna be a great score
off the bench who closes just because that's that's what
he does.
Speaker 1: He's not there's no way he closes, So they're gonna
close DeRozan watching from the bench.
Speaker 2: No, No, there's gotta be a way to get him
out there, so you just go.
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be Keegan Murray, DeMar Derozen Moleigue, Monk
dearon Fox is a bonus.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, all right, I mean you got well, or
they trade him and he goes, well, then I guess
if he gets traded, he's probably starting somewhere else. Well,
that's how I win it. He comes off the bench
enough games for the Kings to qualify, they trade him
at the deadline. Yeah, average is like thirty four game
down the stretch, and his numbers are undeniable. Yeah, I
don't know. I just think, well, actually, no, I'm leaving
Monk there. I'm leaving him there. You to go to
your ballot because you've got to Doozy at number one.
Speaker 1: So with Dante though very quickly. I My whole thing
is is it feels like I don't know how often
they'll go to this. But doesn't it when you're talking
about him versus nos Reid, doesn't it feel like he
might be more likely to close games right now? Because
what you could do is, yeah, you could put NOAs
read in for Julius Randall, but you can't put nas
Read in for Mike Conley. You could do both, Like
Devincenzo could just go in for Julius Randall when you
close with Gobert is the loan big Or you could
just put him in for Mike Conley and use Aunt
as your primary point guard because you have or you know,
because Julius Randall's creation, Mike Commley is not as important
in theory there.
Speaker 2: Or you don't close with Gobert sometimes too, and de
Vincenzo's out there with who have Maybe it's Randall at
the five, maybe it's Read.
Speaker 1: At that point. Yeah, there's more I get. There are
more ways it feels like for dv to close. Yeahan
there is nos Reid at this point, and.
Speaker 2: Really, like, are we sure Conley is gonna hold up
for a full season? He might Devincenzo my just and
close a fair amount games.
Speaker 1: He's also just I know there was a lot of
time spent on different things the Wolves could use, but
like their wing shooting last year was like a very
real deficit. Yah, and he fills that better than Karl
Anthony Towns did, who was a big Julius Randall's a
big and isn't the best shooter anyway, so I considered
putting him number one. I almost kind of out of principle, though,
I'm going with on Men Thompson. I kind of don't
think he's gonna be coming off the bench by year's end.
This is a situation where something happened with a trade
with Shanggun or Jalen Green and that opens the door
for him. But if he's gonna come off the bench
for forty plus games this season, and Emiyodoka said they're
already going to continue to roll with the starting lineup
from last year, which is bad news for Thompson and
Shepherd probably, Like in terms of minutes, he is already
so dominant defensively, he showed that he has some value
away from the ball offensive He can do things as
a screener around the dunker spot, and they're still I
don't know if they have the spacing or the I
guess the touches to go around like this is someone
who came out of the draft as Oh, he's a
six foot seven inch point guard, right, so there's more
meat on the bone as a passer, and I think
it would be a disservice to the Rockets and Thompson
for them not to explore it more this year than
they did last year. And to everyone's defense, they could
have explored it more last year, but he was injured
to start the season, and so that of course impacts
how you're gonna run your team. That feels like a
very This feels like a justifiable pick, but also a
very high risk one on my end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I he's got guys in front of him and
that's the problem. But like his breadth of potential ways
to get into the lineup is is just like it's
significant enough to where it's like he's had he just
has to get in there. It's like for significant minutes,
we like, well we need defense, all right, put him in.
Oh we need a guy who can just finish everything
from the dunker spot. Put him in. Oh we need second,
we need a point guard. Okay, he can do like
I mean, if if he gets any semblance of a jumper,
then it's just like we're trading Jalen Green tomorrow right
like just to we need him in the lineup. So
I like that pick. It's I didn't have him. I
didn't think about him. I'm a little jealous. So give
me your explain your I understand your number three spot
here because I struggled with this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So by the way, I also I initially had
Norman Powell here, but the Kauhi injury just makes it
that I'm assuming he's gonna start way too many games,
I think.
Speaker 2: I think that's that's why I don't have him online,
as I assume he's going to be a starter.
Speaker 1: So I have bow down Bogdanovic or Dyson Daniels because
I assume like Bogdanovich is gonna be viewed as the starter.
But you just kind of I could see Quinn Snyder
changing that up or not going to it at all
and wanting that to come off the bench. I really also,
I'm probably sipping you know, I've always liked Dyson Daniels,
but I've always been pretty upront that I don't think
he's gonna be a good shooter. In the preseason thirty
eight percent on over five attempts per game from Deep
Grant and he is I can't remember who they were
playing that I was watching, but he was letting him
like he caught it twice, like he just let it rip,
and so I'm not buying into it, but if he's
gonna be and defenses aren't gonna defend it because Moilerlert,
they didn't defend those attempts that I'm talking about. So
if he's gonna like if the floater still falls, if
he can hit or take like three three is a
game and he shoots, you know, makes one of them,
he shoots thirty three percent, and then the defensive potential there,
he's gonna be asked to shoulder a big responsibility. I
also think he low key. There's a lot of different
routes they could go here with secondary ball handlers, but
like who is the backup floor general, especially if Bogdanovic
is starting, Dyson Daniels is gonna get a lot of
those reps. He got some of them in New Orleans,
and so that was my thought processes. I think the
opportunity will be there and that he'll also be good enough.
Speaker 2: Who do you think should start of if you're trying
to just be the best do the best thing for
the Hawks? Should it be Daniels or Bogdanovic?
Speaker 1: Ooh, it should be Bogdanovic.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think I think I agree, just because you
need somebody because Trey's gonna have the ball, so you
need more off ball shooting value, right, and then Daniels
can just be on the ball as a backup, right,
Is that like kind of what you're.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm not sure you're gonna have because if
you have let's say, if you have Daniels on the
court and then Compel and Johnson are on the court too,
it's okay, Well, you know Daniels isn't gonna be used
as like a screener or anything, and so that his
value is basically as a cutter. And are you gonna
like you're already getting not too dicey, but like you
want Jalen Johnson and Clint Capella, like you't want anyone
to cannibalize, Like, oh, we need them to like occupy
the same space as those dudes away from the ball.
So I think that makes the most sense. And now,
if you were really trying to build the best defense possible,
you're also looking at through the lens of I know,
Bogdanovitch is bigger than people realize. You're probably starting a rookie.
I mean, isn't there a world though, where like reesa
che could come off the bench and Daniels and Bogdanovic
are starting. Does that make any sense? I probably don't
think so, because you still run into the off ball
like the on ball conundrums. Uh, but yeah, I don't
feel too confident this. But like, if Bogdanovich you told
me he was gonna come off the bench for like
fifty games, I might just pick him.
Speaker 2: I would pick no if if he were guaranteed to
not be a starter, I would probably it would be
between him and Devincenzo for me, and I probably would
put him first, just because I think he should have
won it last year like that. I think he was
the best guy off the bench consistently last season anyone else.
Speaker 1: I can also go through the odds of six man
of the Year or two to see if there's like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to make sure we don't I mean, so
we said, I just talking about mine. I had Bugdanovich
as an honorable mention again, would have had him higher
Nasried obviously. I think Buddy Healed looks like he's kind
of in the perfect spot to just come off the
bench and be the guy that is expected to take
almost every shot offensively. Again, we don't know he might start,
who knows it's that that position is pretty fluid. But
I think he's going to have the pretty like the
standard six man case where you know who who has
the highest points per game among guys that don't start,
Like he could definitely be in that conversation too.
Speaker 1: There's also Carouse Lavert is high up on the betting round.
Speaker 2: Pretty standard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh CJ. McCollum sounds like he's gonna start, though,
so picking anyone from like because you can pick Trey Murphy.
But I really do think he's going to be a starter.
Speaker 2: I actually I think McCollum should come off the bench,
but you just can't do it because of the salary
and the experience, like right, because like they just there's
your second unit.
Speaker 1: Also, if we're being super honest, Brandon Ingram should probably
come off the bench.
Speaker 2: Well, well, you know what about the same theory, right,
same theory of like he's not gonna shoot threes, so
let's have him just run the offense as a as
a against backup type of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, Hamy Hawk as junior, that's a good one.
I do kind of feel like there's a chance he
would start games. But if they want to go with
Jovich or even Kolia Aware next to Bam instead Jordan Clarkson.
I don't know if I could get there after last season,
but that's.
Speaker 2: Pretty standards, a pretty standard annual pick for this.
Speaker 1: Bobby portis standard, Benecmathrin, I don't know if I can
get there.
Speaker 2: That's the type of play, that's the type of player
he is. I think, uh so, man.
Speaker 1: Both Alex Caruzo and Isaiah Hart and Stein are on here,
and it's just I need to know you could. First
of all, you need to tell me which one is
gonna come off the bench for more games. And even
then I'm just like you could talk me in to Isaiah,
Joe or Case and there's gonna be too many. They've
too much depth for someone to win six Man of
the Year, as stupid as that sounds.
Speaker 2: And if Caruso is starting, isn't dork coming off the
bench like You're not? You're not gonna start both of them?
Are you? And maybe you are?
Speaker 1: I was thinking, is are we sure? Like? I know
they started Isaiah Hart and Sign, but that was gonna
be their permanent starting five. I guess they gave him
thirty million dollars a year. He's because couldn't. Couldn't you
make the case for I say, Hart and Stein if
Alex Caruso's starting to be six man of the year.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well that's the thing. Yeah, that's another situation
where we just you could pick a couple guys are
so deep.
Speaker 1: Josh Hart is on here, that's weird. Who are the
next starting instead of Josh Hart?
Speaker 2: Josh Hart, that's who's starting.
Speaker 1: Peyton Pritchard getting nice little Celtics bump. Oh this is
I don't know who is setting money on fire. But
Russell Westbrook is off this list.
Speaker 2: That's just like a public bet.
Speaker 1: Oh I hope soon as a dark horse would be interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see it. I could see it. What
about there's gotta be a son like it doesn't doesn't
one of like Grayson Allen or Royce O'Neal need to
be coming off the bench, either of those. I mean
more so Grayson Allen because he could just come in
and you know, shoot four from three.
Speaker 1: That's a good one. And there, I mean, what is
the path to him starting? Is it they decided to
kd at the five where you're not going to start Tias.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the only way it happens, right, Yeah,
so he's definitely coming off the bench right because it'll
be Tias Beale Booker KDS.
Speaker 1: He's not on here though. I find that interesting.
Speaker 2: There's your long shot bet, I think, I mean, I
mean he maybe he starts too many because one of
those guys has hurt everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Spencer did when he's on here. But Grayson Allen
is not not a good bet there. G McConnell's on here.
But oh this is Trey Murphy's on here. Of course,
this is like tough too, sort of like the Rockets.
This is why I was also hesitant to pick aman Thompson,
is that they might have too many options. But cam
Wittmore's on here, and then Reed Shepherd's coming off the
bench too. My Aman Thompson pick is looking shakier.
Speaker 2: I mean, everything with the Rockets is just still. They
have too many young guys that they're all just.
Speaker 1: Gonna at this point, they got all the picks, they
have all this flexibility and like they're just stacked everywhere.
They're not as good, but it's so how many minutes
are these guys gonna play? So I picked two Rockets
to win awards so far this year. And they're both
Rockets players that I'm concerned about how many minutes they're
gonna actually.
Speaker 2: Love well, other than like Shingoon and I guess van Fleet, Like,
who are you not concerned about there? I guess.
Speaker 1: Is gonna play that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: He sort of has to, right, And well, he's the
one guy that fits with whoever else from that group
you put out there, just because of the shooting and
the defensive versus.
Speaker 1: Playing at the five play at the four doesn't matter
too So yeah, anybody else, that's all I go. Do
you think he winds up starting in too many games?
Speaker 2: He's another? Yeah, I think he's I think he's more
likely to start then Healed. That's why I went with
Healed as an honorable mention.
Speaker 1: So I guess the Pods is starting. What about Melton?
Speaker 2: Then Melton? If I was gonna say either of those,
whichever of those three? So two of them, presumably of
those three should be considerations, because I think all of
them are gonna play a lot. What about Dalton connect,
I mean, if he's gonna get twenty straight points every night, like,
how does he's probably just he'll start, so they'll bench Lebron.
Speaker 1: Anybody else. I think that just about covers it.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: This this award is always tough. This year was especially
tough though, I think because the fluidity of starting fives
now is just gonna make this increasingly difficult. Yeah, what's next, Grant?
Speaker 2: Uh See, this is a hard one because there's a
there's a pivot point here. I'm I'm gonna guess you went.
I'm going out of order on my own board, and
I think you went. Clutch player next year, Well, Coach
of the Year. Yeah, is this miner yours? I think
it's you will it could be yours.
Speaker 1: Okay. I have Chris Finch number one, Joe Mizzoula number two,
Kenny Atkinson number three, the classic. They're all kind of
classic cases except for Finch, Like Missoula, Okay, this team
just won the title and now they're missing Chris tops porzingis.
If they continue to win fifty nine to sixty games, whatever,
how is he not in it? He just becomes revalidated
all over again. Kenny Atkinson is the classic case of
remember Mike Brown with the Kings like come in overhaul
what was already kind of a promising team. In the
CAW's case, they were really good. Chris Finch is the
Wolves are already really good. People were skeptical of the
Julius Randall fit, and he has He's been the one
that's been most vocal about No, this was a basketball thing.
It wasn't just about finances. And so if they're better
offensively and Julius Randall is fitting in, well, he's doing great.
Next to Gobert, next to Edwards, he's running some second units,
next to Dante DiVincenzo, maybe Dillingham especially. I mean, the
awards get named after the before the playoffs, that doesn't matter,
So I just have Chris Finch number one. I think
that this is a team. I'm interested to see how
he moves all these different peace around, Like even I
think one of Rob dilling Hammer, Terry Shannon's gonna end
up having an impact for this team and he'll figure
out ways to get them in there. So the Wolves
are already good. But I think this is a coach
where where we haven't necessarily seen him get too creative
on the offensive end just yet. I now think he
kind of has the personnel to flex his muscles there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that pick because it's like you can
you can envision the reason the Wolves are better is
because of like him proving he can win in a
different way, you know, like because the personnel has changed
so much. It's like it'll be easy to attribute the
successful integration of Randall and Devincenzo and whatever to Finch,
like being adaptable. And we definitely love that. You know,
if a coach can prove he like Thibodeau would be
another one, it's like, oh he's different, you know, like
that it's not just the one trick thing. So I
like that. I like that a lot. I didn't have
them on mine, but like, he's definitely got to be
up there. So I went, we're the same two and
three Missoula and Atkinson, same theory. I have Taylor Jenkins first,
I'm betting. I'm just putting a lot on the Grizzlies
just re establishing themselves as a fifty plus win team
after the gap year. I think the defense will be
really good, and we always attribute the defense to the coach,
so that that helps his case. And I can just imagine,
you know, going against me is the fact that the
front office fired his entire support staff or entire but
they didn't fire him, So maybe that means, like, you know,
they really do trust him. That's a that's a hard
hurdle for me to get over here. I just think
the Grizzlies will be better. I think Jenkins had a
lot of like, oh what a great young coach momentum
up until last year when his team just got hurt
and that's not his fault. So and if he like
gets some credit for ust re establishing a culture that
kind of let John Morant get out of hand too
many times, and like the Grizzlies seem more professional and mature,
like that could be attributed to him too.
Speaker 1: And I kind of like a little bit of you
started a fire and then put it out.
Speaker 2: Though oh yeah, totally. I'm just trying to I'm just
trying to imagine what the case for him would be.
And besides the fact that the Grizzlies might win like
thirty more games than they did last year, I think
it's funny neither of us has Mark dagnaut On here,
even though we like the thunder are going to win
a trillion games and like everyone in Grease, he's a
great coach.
Speaker 1: How does he repeat?
Speaker 2: He can't. That's the thing is, that's how stupid this
award is, well, I guess if.
Speaker 1: They won likes I mean, if they win seventy four,
how do you pick anybody else? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I know you don't. I just think that Okay, wait wait,
Eric s Ulster in the top three every year. Everyone
agrees he's the best coach in the league, and he's
just like I didn't even think about him.
Speaker 1: Well I thought about him, So I'm not as cruel
as you are. But that's like, how stupid is this?
Speaker 2: So I don't know why I'm getting.
Speaker 1: All right winds up on one of our ballots, the
end of season ballots. I bet you, oh, probably yeah,
because I think he was on mine last year.
Speaker 2: Well, this award is very much like we just sort
of rule out the coaches that were already sure are great,
and we just look for the ones that, like haven't
been acknowledged yet because look at we all three of
ours have no won it before.
Speaker 1: So what if the Oklahoma City thunder have the Defensive
Player of the Year, the MVP, and the most improved
player at that point? Did that dilute or strengthen Mark
Degnolt's case.
Speaker 2: I think you probably should just give them the clean
sweep of like every award at that.
Speaker 1: Point, the sixth Man of the Year award.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we made the case. There's like five
guys that could win it. For them, you definitely give them.
You give Press the Executive of the Year if that happens.
Speaker 1: I did. I'm sorry I was pooh poohing over your
Jenkins pick. But I do see the vision there.
Speaker 2: Oh. I mean I don't love it, to be honest,
but I feel like I just went with my heart.
I kind of thought that, you know, a couple of
months ago, and I've stuck with it.
Speaker 1: His case last year, just from a defensive perspective, the
fact that that team, when you look at all the
different lineups, they ended up running out and yes they
weren't trying to win at some point, like they still
finished thirteenth in points allowed per possession. That he had
a case last year for that.
Speaker 2: I feel like we don't do that enough. Like a
coach that just fucking survives should get should get like
a bunch of third place votes.
Speaker 1: He also looks like he can only coach a team
named the Grizzlies, So feel how much how many points
do we give him for that?
Speaker 2: A couple I mean, Beard we gets beard points, terrific beard,
very uniform.
Speaker 1: I haven't I did think about this one surprise surprise.
If this team is still is like top ten or
top seven in defense, does Tom Thibodeau have a case?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's pretty high up in the odds,
I think too, just like his job. His job's a
I don't know. Is it harder this year? It's hard
to say, Like, it's definitely gonna be different, and the
depth is a real issue, but less so for him
because like he just plays everybody.
Speaker 1: I will say he is more flexible than ever, but
I think it's more difficult in the sense that this
Knicks team is just veering so far away from what
he usually values the most, like all of his core
principles and he's again he's gotten more of just We've
seen him playunder sized lineups, we seen him use bigs
in different ways. But like, this is just not when
you look at this team on paper, even after watching
Tom Thibodeau the last couple of seasons, this is not
a team that you would say, like, oh, Tom Thibodeaux built
this team, like yeah, this is the Yeah, No, not
at all is there. JJ Reddick is the shock and
awe candidate. Right, we're telling my god, the Lakers won
forty nine games. Oh yeah, I can.
Speaker 2: If they win forty nine games, then he's gonna be
on a lot of ballots. I would imagine, what about
uh Buttonholzer, Like if.
Speaker 1: Phoenix Windholder is a good one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if Phoenix, I don't know. We keep saying if
they finished, if they're second in the West, say, because
we're just not going to put anyone over the Thunder.
Speaker 1: Oh, he'll have won it, I think, right, like all
if any team finishes ahead of the Thunder, give it.
If you have first in the West and you're not okay, see,
I'm assuming not coach has one right again, Michael Malone,
who actively seems to hate like the front office he's
employed by, and well because like he actively seems to
hate a lot of his own players.
Speaker 2: It feels like there's a lot of tension in Denver.
But Butenholzer is one that like the expectation is that
he will just make Phoenix operate more like just optimize
them on both ends, and so like if they win
a bunch of games, I could see and we love
the first year coach bump like that always is helpful. Honestly,
what if Charles Lee and Charlotte Charlocke was forty to forty? Yeah,
like make the playoffs for sure? Imodoka? Like if if
the Rockets. You know, that's a hard job, right, We've
talked a lot about like the lineup decisions are difficult,
Like there's a weird set of expectations of like develop
these guys, but also like we're ready to win, like
the defense should be really good. I think I don't know.
I think his his success will be like hard to
come by, just because there's so many different aspects of
the coaching job that like he'll have to succeed at.
Speaker 1: This, you know what might be easier house even like
what if the Hawks are just better than expected and
like they're very Quinn snydery now what well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he was. I mean I wonder if we
thought it. We must have mentioned him last year on
the I'm sure because I had this using like Grant
he was my pick. Okay, I support it, like because
first full year, like we can't do that half season.
We know what a Quinn Snyder team looks like, we
know what they value, we like those things. And then
Atlanta just didn't play that way at all on either end. Really, yeah,
I could. I could see that you can give it
to him a year late.
Speaker 1: This might be a better question. Which coaches are you
not prepared to make even a tangential case for here?
I'll listen Chauncey Billups. Probably he would be objectively the
most extent, Like if the Blazers are just in the playing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, like Brian Keith, like the Wizards aren't gonna
like the same for.
Speaker 1: Jory Fernandez in Brooklyn. I think you probably have to
throw Will Hardy in there, because if he's in this discussion,
he was probably fired. What about would any of the legacy,
Like would you be like, could you see a scenario
in which Steve Kerr, Greg Popovich or Rick Carlisle do
the thing?
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say Popovitch is someone I would
rule out. Man Cinnamon has turned against him, like and
may be somewhat fair, like he's seventy five, Like the
fastball is not there, But like, I don't think. I
just don't think that whatever success the Spurs have, I
don't think we'll be attributed to him.
Speaker 1: Billy Donovan, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I feel like Kurrs, just like he's been decorated enough
and I don't know what the Warriors would have to
do to get him, because Coach of the Year always
feels like, again, let's acknowledge this guy hey like good
and if we've done it once already, then like we
kind of don't do it again or more hesitant to
so Carlisle I think falls under that umbrella too, of
like he's regarded as a great coach, been around forever,
like we just we like the new the new stuff.
It seems like.
Speaker 1: Who's more likely to be involved in this discussion, Billy
Donovan or JB. Bickerstaff.
Speaker 2: I just don't see any way Donovan is involved, so
I would go bicker Staff.
Speaker 1: What if the Bulls are just yo, I guess fans
will be mad, but like what if they're good? Like,
what if they're good?
Speaker 2: What's good?
Speaker 1: Mean? Well? Josh Ginning winning most improved by apparently I.
Speaker 2: Could see bicker staph. I mean, like the bar bicker
Staff has to clear is so low because of what
happened last year that like if the Pistons win, If
the Pistons win thirty four games, that's a twenty win improvement. Uh,
like they and like I could. I don't know that
he deserve it, but like I could, I could see
bicker Staff getting a little bit of of of buzz potentially.
Speaker 1: Do you think I guess if the Magic hap an
above average offense, Jamal Mosley's probably just in there.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I've actually thought about Mosley just on the
you know, he there's a little bit of buzz for
him last year. I don't remember what he finished, but
I think he.
Speaker 1: Really he's just merited for me because this team needs
to spend more actual time in transition.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's fair in.
Speaker 1: Two dark dark dark horses dark a dark Horse, dark
O Ryakovic in Toronto, just everyone says they're rebuilding, Yaka
pertl said they're not attacking the championship in one of
the best Media Day quotes of all time. What if
they're just good? I don't think they will be, But
that's one And then also this is more based on
we know his team is going to be banged up,
his best players probably not playing him back to backs,
but Nick Nurse and also he had the cachet of
look at how good Joellemead was when healthy under him
last year giving him.
Speaker 2: I like that one. I'm trying to think, like, I
don't think Mike Brown is going to get any consideration.
Darc Rivers know Tylu another good coach. Just know that.
Speaker 1: This is like, isn't this kind of like a Tylu
fever dream? Right now?
Speaker 2: Has he won it before? I don't think he has.
Speaker 1: No, I'll look very quickly, but I don't think he has.
But it's he's always been like, oh, look at what
he did with this shorthanded team where the Calves coming
back from a deficit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, potentially, I'm looking up Tyler right now. Yeah, did
he he won the twenty sixteen SPI Award for Best Coach?
Speaker 1: Nice job. Yeah, no he's not. He's not on here,
so I could actually see him. I could see like
if you just don't have Kawhi for most of the year,
Paul George is gone and the Clippers are still floating
around like forty five wins.
Speaker 2: I mean I could if, yes, if all of the
guys we've already mentioned somehow don't succeed like between like Missoula, Atkinson,
Finch like there, I mean Moseley Mosley is I'm really
warming to the thought of him. We probably should have
mentioned him more. I just I can't see it. Yeah,
I don't know, and Kurr is not going to win it.
I'm just going like left to right on the map. Reddick,
we've talked about.
Speaker 1: Is there anyone we have at this point? We haven't
mentioned anyone in their faces? Who's the first Green win it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could win it maybe if he's win fifty.
Speaker 1: I think him or Billups are probably the coaches that
are most likely to.
Speaker 2: Be fired, right to Willie Green or Billups.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just because the Pelicans at the point where okay,
we can't trade brand ingram apparently, what are you changing
if not the game? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, the last lever to pull type of theory.
I like that theory a lot. My my guy Taylor
Jenkins might get fired. I don't know, you fire the
whole staff like it's that feels like a message.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Shall we move on? I don't know
what's a pick next, because you know, well, you should
go to Executive of the Year, but I think I
think you're gonna go collect player. Oh really stumbling to
the finish here.
Speaker 1: Executive of the Year is all yours. I love I
love your number three because of the reasoning. I know
you're about to give oh right, I was.
Speaker 2: Like, what was my reasoning? So Darryl Mory one, just
like there was no one on this roster other than
Joel Embiid and Ricky Counsel. The fourth I think was
the other guy, and they're you know, a good bet
to finish top four or in the in the in
the East. Like the Tyrese Maxi thing. Uh, just getting
him to wait in an environment where like you had
a former star player saying you're a liar? Is that
a what isn't that a.
Speaker 1: Last season thing? Getting Tyress Maxi to wait?
Speaker 2: I mean he signed him this offseason, so he didn't
let him walk. Yeah, I guess maybe that it's kind
of a bridge from last season to this season. Case. Okay,
he got Paul George.
Speaker 1: How about that?
Speaker 2: And then he did well on a bunch of minimums
and in terms of like a grand plan like executing
this this bold kind of not kind of like total
overhaul of the roster, just you know, the sixers are
completely different and better. And that's he did a bunch
of tricky machinations to make that work. Sam Prestin next,
just he's gonna be there forever. Do you go get
Alex Caruso and doesn't cost you a draft pick. You
get off of Zach Josh Giddy and don't have to
think about paying him an extension that you don't want
to doesn't cost anything to do that. You go get
Isaiah Hartenstein, like just you know this.
Speaker 1: Stroke of I also thought long term book management brilliance.
What they did with Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins too.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, just super reasonable, long enough extensions
where they're basically underpaid now and are huge trade assets.
It's just, yeah, kind of perfect. I have I have
Rafael Stone third because he did not hit well. This
might be totally stale, but as of today, he has
not given extensions to anybody.
Speaker 1: Nobody shepherds that.
Speaker 2: And they draft to read Shepherd. Good for him.
Speaker 1: This is a team, though, I would say more so
than some others. I mean, Maury's case could definitely be
furthered as the season goal because we know they have
first round picks to trade, and they did the kJ
Martin deal. I don't know if you mentioned that, like
that's built a trade. The Rockets could make a trade
mid season two that would also shift.
Speaker 2: His Yeah, so I regret not putting Leon Rose here
and one of these spots, but I but you took
care of that for me because like you can talk
about talk about like the tiny nuances of and it's
not all him, but like all the hoops they had
to jump through to pull off these traits is like insane.
So like maybe that's just a full front office award.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean brock Osweller like the cat, like the
salary cap guru for them. But I will say I
have Leon Rose third, I've pressed the second, which the
other thing we didn't mention with the thunder I'm getting
did they really do this again? Vibes with Dylan Jones
and like they also think the whole nicole the whole
nicolo topic thing too. Where do you remember what my
comp was for him before, like before the draft when
we did that exercise.
Speaker 2: You've asked me this before and I couldn't remember, and
then you gave it to me and I still don't remember.
Speaker 1: It's Shake Gilders. Alexander was like my highest end comp
for him, and.
Speaker 2: So that's by the way, I don't remember the guy.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's injured, but he just gets to learn from
Shake Gilder. Alexander I factored into my preseason case anyway.
But with Leon Rose, I doubt Morey won I everything
you outlined, it's just I don't know at this point.
It's what needs to happen for him not to win
the award. Paul George doesn't play this season, probably I don't.
Speaker 2: And even then it's like, uh, it's worthwhile gamble, you know.
Speaker 1: It's I guess if em beads two injured atoll, should
they've given him the extension, And it's yeah, they had
no choice. With Rose, I do have them third because
I don't they didn't make They were creative in how
they specifically with the Towns deal and like the way
they're using these players that were on the roster at
the end of the season to sign and trade them.
They did some of that with the nets and McHale bridges,
but you didn't like, you know, he kept og Anobi,
but like none of this was team friendly. The most
team friendly thing and this matters, by the ways, the
Jalen Bruns an extension, right, so that's a big deal.
But this does sort of feel like everything else like
that Jalen bruns An extension will carry it, but like
everything else is not that it's debatable, but it has
the potential to be net neutral or worse because like
if you look at those trades, like if we're sitting
here doing this at the end of the season, my
framing here, this is my long wing away of saying,
is he's kind of probably gonna either finish second or
in the award or just not even come close to
making it on the ballot type deal because the knicks
something fell off the like the wheels fell off the
wagon there. But it's it's an interesting case because they
were creative and there's the jail on Brunson extension. But
when you look at what they gave up for mchel Bridges,
for Karl Anthony Towns, how much they paid og Han Andobi, Yeah,
those aren't one hundred percent unequivocal wins, are there. They're
not even for a lot of people you already traded
for OG's Okay, you have to pay them. But I
think a lot of people who are even in support
of the move, including myself, would recognize that these aren't
just moves that were no brainers that you would make
and so his case is either to me, gonna grow
or diminish as the games start to play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean just thinking back,
like with both of the really big moves, the Bridges
trade and the Cat move, It's like we had real
conversations and I think it's still kind of unresolved as
like was that worth it? Like was were those actual
positive value plays? Like I don't know, So I do
think part of that, like lee into you got to
credit the boldness, like you got to credit it, like
we're going for it. What are these you know, the
fuck them picks like all like that. That that is
like laudable, I think, especially we're a little we're close
to pass the point of having to mention this, but
just like how poorly the Knicks were run for so
long and now it's just like, oh no, we're we're
getting within like fourteen cents of the cut you know,
of the various like aprons and cutoffs, and we have
done all this creative shit like signing guys from partisan belgrade,
and you know it's just like that's like, okay, we're
in the weeds now, Like the Knicks are at the
cutting edge of like they're not. They're not dupes anymore,
you know, like they're paying the high prices, but that's
just part of it. They're getting all the small stuff
like pretty hammered out.
Speaker 1: And this wouldn't factor into my case right now, but
based off what I've seen in preseason, there's also a
chance that the selections of Pacomb Dottier or more likely
Tyler Kohleik end up helping his case rather than being
I think most of the time. Oh, this team took
Tyler Kolk in the second whatever, that's not gonna help
or hurt your case. It seems like there might be
an actual chance that he is their primary backup playmaker
because they view Deuce as more of an off guard
wing type. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, anybody else that should be
like this was just like who was the I think
we covered the four people that should be there, Like
do you give? Like how do you wait? Something like
Boston with Brad Stevens, where they just like kept they
kept paying their guys and most of that was extensions too,
So it's not something that kicks in this season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't know, Like I don't
know if just just extensions is quite enough. It's like
they actually physically couldn't do anything else. So I don't
know how we demerit him for that. Who else did really? Well?
Speaker 1: Do you think I will tell you who doesn't belong
on this list? That would be our tourist Karnosovas does
not belong on this list?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, not a fan there.
Speaker 1: What about what about Montu McNair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, because you know, getting getting de Rosen who
we were like actually obligated to say talent upgrade, got
to do that and the price is right? I mean maybe,
don't What about the Spurs just keep like horning in
on deals and getting extra picks without having to do
anything like That's so I don't even know who to
say there is? Is it still like rc Buford? Is
that who were crediting? Is it Popovich? I can't remember
who actually we credit with their for their front office moves,
but like they it's all marginal stuff really and like.
Speaker 1: I guess, by the way, that's Brian right, Brian right? Yeah? Sorry?
Speaker 2: Trading away the number eight pick like that's that's kind
of that's ballsy for a team in their position and
taking Castle at four, getting the first what is it
a swap from the Kings and the DeRozan deal that
the that you know, the Bulls just could have gotten
they wanted to.
Speaker 1: Uh Chicago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think who else.
Speaker 1: Those Yeah, the Spurs one should definitely, like Brian Wright
should definitely be up there. What about Minnesota, Like we're
mentioning the Knicks and I know they only made that
one move, but there's like there's just a chance that
this team is I think they're better for the regular season,
and I have questions about the playoffs, but like there's
a the Rob Dillingham swing was bold, and I don't know,
I don't know. I do think there's a chance that
people will use that against their case, like when we're leading, Like,
excuse me Tim Connelly's case leading into that, just because
I don't think he's gonna play a whole lot anymore,
and if he has not necessarily looked great, but like
if the Julius Randall Dante de Vincenzo additions pan out.
Speaker 2: That's if that if that goes really well, that's like
a master stroke to get off that contract.
Speaker 1: Was that the riskiest move of the summer?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm trying I don't I'm struggling to think
what I mean. Well, it was in the summer. I
was gonna say, Kawhi Leonard's extension turns out, but that
was the last.
Speaker 1: Something with the Knicks. I guess you could say that
they're saddling them, but like theirs looked at more in
some I think the McHale Bridges trade and the Karl
Anthony Towns trade. But like the single biggest or most
critical decision to break up a core of a Western
Conference finalist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a bit. I mean in terms of like
right now stakes, that's massive. What about like just the
risky moves like giving Brooklyn back that twenty five first
when the number one overall pick, Like that's that's pretty risky.
By the Rockets.
Speaker 1: The only we haven't mentioned, I don't know. I mean,
there's a chance they could he could crack the top three,
but Nico Harrison and Dallas, the Rhymes deal getting Klay
Thompson and then also with Naji Marshall, we both thought
that was a home run signing sure that honestly, of
all the names we mentioned, that's the one that I
could see easiest, like not just climbing into the top three,
but if we're talking in upset, like if if Dallas
is always on the best team in the West.
Speaker 2: Right, and like Grimes and Marshall and Clay all have
really good seasons like that you just point directly to
the offseason of like they got all those guys and
getting getting Grimes back in that trade with I.
Speaker 1: Might bump Leon Rose right now for him because of that.
They was just you give up Tim Hardaway Junior and
seconds and get back went and right.
Speaker 2: That's insane. That's It's like we're talking about Quentin Grimes,
like he's a five time All Star, but like you
shouldn't get a guy who might really help you in
a salary dump, Like that's not.
Speaker 1: Whether it was just you needed to do that salary
dump to do everything else that you write.
Speaker 2: Amazing. Yeah, that's a good one, grant.
Speaker 1: You know what's next.
Speaker 2: Let's see Coach of the Year, Assistant Coach of the Year.
Let's see best Concessions. Oh, clutch player. That's right, the hardest,
the hardest award to pick by a factor of ten, because.
Speaker 1: They have in the dark. I went sgat one Luca
at two and like I'd like to get a little
creative at three with this, but like Tyrese, Maxi, Joe
Beid's gonna miss a bunch of time, Paul George will
probably miss some time, and also E Beads talked about
deferring more to Max, deferring more to Maxie excuse me.
I could see him just being like their go to
crunch time weapon.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean he's gonna start with the ball,
so that helps. Like whatever he does with it from
then is up to him. I have Luca one Bruns
into Jokic three, and it's just like it's just I mean,
probably both of us should have had DeMar DeRozan on here,
just because he actually does seem to be the only
guy that's always on, you know, the top of the
clutch stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, I thought about him, but him and Fox being
on the same team, we talk about cannibalization a lot
when it comes to consideration.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that, I mean, if he if he's a
Clutch Player of the Year this year, then like clutch
actually is real, like the real thing. I just went
with the guys that I'm very confident will be the
like be all end all at the end of games
for their teams. So it's just like I don't know.
It's not a sophisticated approach to it. I mean we
could have. Is there anybody else you like gave thought
to and in so far as you give a lot
of thoughts to this award.
Speaker 1: Well, I gave Jokic some thought I did. So this
is Galaxy bringing it too much. I had wondered if
Sga doesn't belong on here because the thunder is gonna
not play enough crunch time minutes.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the sample will be too. He'll play three
clutch games all year, right to shoot one hundred percent
in the clutch.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why I can't bring myself to pick anyone
from the celt in part because of that reason too.
Speaker 2: That's a great point. Yeah, yeah, that you do have
to pick a team that you think is like gonna
be okay, basically put.
Speaker 1: Notable player X into that. Like the answers, Probably, Yes,
if they're gonna have the ball one of their top
two options down the stretch, Yes, they could. Joelle and
Be could theoretically win this. Lebron a d could theoretically.
Speaker 2: Win this, Yes, like uh, Devin Booker during.
Speaker 1: Like is it James Harden or Kevin Porter Junior could theoretic,
like who's the number two option in Los Angeles?
Speaker 2: I mean, Norman Powell is gonna win, is not gonna
win six man, but he'll win. Clutch player.
Speaker 1: I would love to see, though, like someone from a
bad team, like we need not a bad team, but
like not a great Like if Charlotte just has an
excellent crunch time record and Brandon Miller was Incredila La
mellow Ball was incredible, that would be just like kind
of you root, I'd like to see one of those
types of teams win the playing, not the play, and
the the mid season tournament, the NBA Cup, Like just
Portland winning the NBA Cup would be objectively hysterical.
Speaker 2: That'd be great. Give me, like, gimme cam Thomas just
just like the nets are in very few clutch games,
but if they are close, like you know, he's going
to be shooting and he just you know, would have
to make it.
Speaker 1: He gets traded if he's winning them too many clutch games, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, he just gets benched down the stretch after
he's like seventeen of thirty one in the game to
that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's too efficient. Now we can't do it. Yeah,
this is just like, I don't even know if we
like predicting. This is so is so tough. If one
of these what do we have five different players on here,
one of these five different players win it, I think
we deserve a pat on the back.
Speaker 2: Because I would be super impressed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very much a throw it at the wall
and see if it sticks. M with that, Do you
have anything else or you you ready to take us
out of here?
Speaker 2: I think that's going to do it. That we you know,
we almost got under two hours for what's a eight awards,
so uh pretty good. Just make sure that as you
go gamble that you do not take any of our
advice and uh just maybe like do the complete opposite
other than MVP. I feel pretty good about our MVP picks.
Speaker 1: We have separate MVP picks. So what is your advice
here right now?
Speaker 2: Either just bet on Luca and Jokic. Yeah, the top two.
I don't know if you can actually win money doing that.
Probably not.
Speaker 1: You can hedge stuff like that, like that's yeah, but like.
Speaker 2: Well, the the what's your return going to be? It's
like not even gonna be worth it because their odds
are so have such like good odds.
Speaker 1: Oh dude, I haven't even looked at their odds. I
would assume they're both like at least a plus three hundred.
Speaker 2: In which I don't know. I assume they're one too.
You could probably you know what, just still don't do
anything worth suggesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so, but as of right now the
payouts on them. Could you bet on both? Yeah, because
Lucas so if you threw one hundred on both, you
would you would win money. So Luca is the odds
on favorite at plus three fifty. Okay, so you throw
one hundred, so you could you could do that. I'm
not recommending it, but in theory you could do that.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's the Wemby dpoy one that is just he's
so far and away the favorite that there's like no point.
Speaker 1: He's not He's like it not even paying out even money, right.
Speaker 2: Right, I think he's a minus and he's minus something.
Speaker 1: At that point. Don't bet on Webby even if you
think he's gonna take a stab in there.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no that why yeah, why would you like,
You're just it's not it's not worth it. Again, don't
take our gambling advice. We don't know what we're talking about.
Maybe you do, I don't everybody. Thanks for listening, thanks
for watching. Let us know what your picks might be.
Let us know in the comments on YouTube. Join our
discord if you want to weigh in links for that
YouTube and podcast description. Wherever you're getting these podcasts consuming,
then please rate, review, subscribe, lots of comments on the videos.
That's always very helpful to us. Tell your friends, tell
your enemy, spread word of mouth. That's that's just as helpful.
Help us get our subs up. Make sure you are subscribed.
That's very helpful, especially on YouTube. I think it's going
to cover it. Thanks for checking out our awards. We're
getting close, Dan, like a couple of days, the games
is gonna start to count.
Speaker 1: So excited not to watch them. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to hear you pretend like you've ever watched
the game in your life. That's that's what I'm moving
forward to this season. Shouts Frank nol Kina apologics Jay
that one