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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos. I am Dana Valley, coming

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at you as always with my certified fantabulous co host,

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mister Grant Hughes. It's that time of year again. We're

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on to our officially official twenty twenty four twenty twenty

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five NBA Year end Awards prediction. We're going through the

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Big Eight. We're not gonna do I don't know if

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we did all NBA, All Rookie, and All Defense last year,

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but uh, that might be something to check in on

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mid season. But that's more fun to do after we've

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watched the actual game. So we have our ballots for

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these eight awards before we get to it. Grant, One,

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how are you doing? And two? How are you feeling

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about this exercise?

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Speaker 2: I'm a little disappointed to you didn't accept my eleventh hour.

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It was like more like the eleven fifty ninth hour

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of like, hey, let's turn this into a draft. But

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that's okay. I understand that the graphics tick work, and

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then we wouldn't really be doing predictions, which is kind

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of what these so this is. This isn't so sometimes

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in things like this we have to do like who

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should win versus who you think will win? Did you

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think about this that way? And if so, is this

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your who should win or who you think will win?

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Or and is there a difference?

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Speaker 1: There's definitely a difference. I did it as I'm filling

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out my ballot. If we had to vote right now,

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this is how I would be voting. So I did

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it from my perspective, like, this is who I think

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will be the MVP. And like, in some instances, I

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recognize too that my choice is they're they're all like

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you should statistically speaking, you should always bet on the field.

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But in some cases I kind of recognize that I

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view it this way. But I actually like, maybe this

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player doesn't even appear on the ballot because I know

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that a vast majority of voters are going to think

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about it through a different Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess like the who should win as

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is a lot harder to make a case for when

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we don't have any games played yet, So like, what

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is your should based on at this point?

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, did you approach it from who you think

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is gonna win? Then?

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Speaker 2: More or less? Like but that it's I guess as

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I'm talking it out, the distinction I drew kind of

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is not that uh, not that stark, because again we

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haven't there's nothing to base it on. It's like, you know,

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at the end of last year or at the end

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of any year, it's like who you where the voting

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seems to be trending, and then you might have someone

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that you think, well, the numbers say that it should

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be this guy. We don't have the numbers yet, So

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I think I mostly looked at it as just, yeah,

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if I had to fast forward to the end of

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the season, what do I think like a good ballot

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should look like? And and so yeah, it's I guess

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in that sense, it is who I think is actually

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gonna win or you know, place versus you know, it's

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pretty hard to predict who you think will be like

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unjustly overlooked having no numbers to base that on. At

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this point, there's.

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Speaker 1: There's only like adding totally you could make the case

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of voter fatigue for certain players would be the way

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to go that route I tried. That's what I tried

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to ignore is I guess the best way to frame

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it throughout this process is, I don't you know, if

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people are tired of seeing the same players mentioned on

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the MIP ballot or like I tried not to think

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of it in those terms where I look, oh, so

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and so finished fourth in MIP last year, Does that

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mean that he can't win it this year? No, it

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shouldn't mean it that, even though people I think voter

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some might view it that way, be like, well did

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he improve enough from being top five of MIP last year?

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So that's always the challenge. Before we get started, a

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very quick reminder, because there's still time our over under

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competition where you compete against Grant and I and you

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can win a merch item of your choice, but also

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the chance to guest host a mailbag podcast. Join our

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discord and enter the link to the discords in the

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podcast and YouTube description. You can go in there. There's

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a specific server room. I'll post a link again, it's

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pinned in the room. But for people who aren't familiar

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with discord, I might even throw Grant in that you

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could pin like what's a pin boat. I'll throw the

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link in there again, you could fill it out just

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over unders and you could see how you stack up.

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And it turns out Grant and I are eminently beatable

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based on what happened last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, like this is your chance, people, It's not

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a five bar to clear clearly you can you can

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succeed with minimal effort that I feel very confident that

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we will not. We will not win or finish one

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too no chance.

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Speaker 1: Let's get started. We will begin with MVP. We always

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have this discussion grant beforehand. We didn't this year because

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I know how you like to do it, where it's well,

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do we go with the you know, the sexiest award

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first or last to try and hook people in? For us,

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it shouldn't matter because you're welcome everybody. We time stamp shit.

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But that's always something I'm thinking about, is, oh, do

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you keep people watching a little longer? Should we not

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reveal our ballots at the top instead of discussing them.

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I like the idea of just hey, here's our top

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five ballot from VP, let's talk about it, and so

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you can see it on screen right now, here's our

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top five grant. You want to roll through yours?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So, and then here's a question. Do I go

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one to five? Do I go five to one? I'm

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just gonna just do it one to five. So I

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have Luka Doncish number one, Jokic two, Jannis three, SGA four,

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and Wemby five. So the Luca part of it, let's

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just start there. I mean, I think I just think,

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you know, this is so ridiculous, but it's like it

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feels like it's time. It feels surprising that he hasn't

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won one yet. And we went into the finals last

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year with a Boston team that was just like crushing everybody,

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and I remember having the conversation of like, I think

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I got to give Boston like six games just because

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of Luca, you know, like that, trying to figure out

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that series, and he was not even one hundred percent.

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So the numbers are going to be insane. The possibility

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that Klay Thompson actually does make a huge difference on

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offenses there, uh, and he's just like right at that

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point in his career where maybe there's like, I mean,

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how much better can you really get than Luca has been?

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But maybe there's like a five percent bump and that's

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all it takes.

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Speaker 1: Game averaging a triple double is possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like I think really one of the

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things that gave me the most pause here. I'd be

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curious if this factor for you at all, because we're

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pretty similar, and I'd like to hear the Jokic case too,

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as if like you need to really make a Jokic

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cases one, three out of four spoilers.

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Speaker 1: I like to reveal my ballot to the listeners.

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Speaker 2: Well they're looking at it, but so real quick before

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I get to you, like, uh, we think Dallas is

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going to be a top four team in the West,

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like we've that's consensus probably, but is that even is

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that enough? If Dallas is fourth and Luca has like

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I think, you know, like they might have to be second,

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or they might have to just have, you know, be

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third but win fifty five games or something like that,

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and he has to have the numbers like that aspect

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of MVP is is because we both have several West

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guys here. Uh that that's like a little curveball in

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the analysis.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, so one based on if you're a Baalid,

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it's very clear that you hate America. I just want

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to throw that out there at any page, Well.

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Speaker 2: Look at me, international coalition. I didn't even realize that.

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Speaker 1: So I have Jokic at one, Luca at two, Sga

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at three, Jalen Brunson at four, and then Yannis at five.

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The there's so many different places to go the lou

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I it came down to Luca or Jokic. For me,

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I tried to give Sga a ton of consideration. I

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honestly think now that I'm like the way that I

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know the MVP unfolds, even the way I think about it,

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where it's I'm looking at how good do I think

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this player is in a vacuum, and then how indispensable

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do I think he is to his team in the

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sense that it's not just about how bad they are

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without him, but how much better does he make them?

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And Sga, I want to be clear, I think is

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high on that scale. But like the indispensability factor when

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you look at like him versus Jalen Brunson's like the

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Knicks unloaded their entire war chest of assets and they

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are now more dependent on Jalen Brunson than they were before.

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So that is one I struggled with the Jokic case.

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Though I don't think I want to be here. I

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don't think he's gonna win. I think that people always won.

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He can't win four. He can't do that. I mean one, yes,

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yes he can. I look at it as people are

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I don't know if they're sleeping on the Nuggets, but

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the coverage of the Nuggets have skewed so far from

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where they were when they want a title to where

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that if they're second in the West again. And all

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these people, including us on some of these not all

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these fronts, but some of these fronts, have spent all

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this time worrying or questioning Jamal Murray, the fit of

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Russell Westbrook, them transitioning maybe too much into some of

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these younger guys. If just if despite all those concerns, Yeah, okay,

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those players, let's say, Christian Brown and Peyton Watson and

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Julian Strath are all great. The Russell Westbrook fit pans out,

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Jokic is gonna be like at the four of the

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Like you think Peyton Watson's gonna get a lot better

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on the offensive end without being reliant on Nikolejokic. No,

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do you think the Russell Westbrook fit is gonna pan

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out in any way unless Nikole Jokic helps kind of

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smooth it over. I mean maybe in the minutes that

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he's not on the court, since Russe will be coming

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off the bench, so he's gonna have that going for

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him on top of just what I had mentioned before,

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which was, there's all these reasons to doubt the Nuggets

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now and if they just end up near the top

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of the West, which I have said some pretty critical

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things of the Nuggets this offseason, I still hit there over.

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I still had them When did I have them third

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in the Western Conference? He's the best player in the NBA.

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He's an iron man when you're you know, we're worrying

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about availability. That was the other thing. Who do you

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think is more like? Like? This was this was the

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splitting hairs thought process. Who is more likely to not

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play in sixty five games this year? Luka or Jokic?

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Speaker 2: Oh right, Yeah, Yogic is just gonna you could Yoga

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is gonna be out there like that's just his defining features.

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Speaker 1: And I think the final thing that shifted it for me,

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and you could maybe make the case for Luca in

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this way because of where Kyrie is in his career.

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Which player on this list, I mean, Jalen Brunson is

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the answer. But when we're looking at the top three

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or like just most of the candidates, which of which

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other NB peak candidates are less likely to have an

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All Star teammate Jalen Brunton's probably even more likely to

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have an All Star teammate because he has Towns. I

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would trust Towns to make an All Star Game in

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the East before I'm going to trust Jamal Murray to

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do it in the West, let alone trust Jamal Murray

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to do it all. So those factors just kind of

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swayed it. But I Luca feels like the right pick.

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I don't like that. It's his time argument. I think

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he's just really fucking transcendent.

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Speaker 2: So you have SGA third and I have him fourth,

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and so by definition, we're not like sliding him. We're

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saying he's gonna be no worse than the fourth most

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valuable player in the league by the end of.

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Speaker 1: The season, which is a slide from where he was.

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Speaker 2: So that's that's what I wanted to get into, is like,

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you know, factoring in that pretty much everybody on planet

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or thinks the thunder are going to win the West

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and their win total is going to be in the

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sixties or whatever, an SJA is going to be the

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best player on that team. It like, did you get

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I didn't, but did you give any thought to SGA

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ranking higher than third? And like I guess really my

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question is like why not, Like, what what is the

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reason we both don't have SGA? Because I agree it's

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one two to me, it's Luca and Jokic in some order,

239
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and then it's after that it's like, well, I just

240
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something strange will have to happen, I feel like for

241
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someone else to win. So what was the what prevented

242
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SGA for you from being higher than he is?

243
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Speaker 1: So I actually had the field a little bit more

244
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open than you going into it any of these five players, Like,

245
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there are points where I was like, man brunts and

246
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at number one makes so much sense because anecdotally, how

247
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like he's almost a Jokic East in the sense of

248
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where like, okay, the Knicks have talent, but where they

249
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have challel Brunson isn't on the court nowhere is the answer.

250
00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,759
But the SGA argument is, and I hated framing it

251
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in these terms, is he's going to have so much

252
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talent around him that I think it'll be harder to

253
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separate just how valuable he is to uplifting the thunder.

254
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And it's almost like the Jason Tatum argument of it all,

255
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except that he is more undeniable because of the like

256
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the self creation or the table setting for others when

257
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it comes to the offensive end, He's like, it just

258
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,200
wouldn't shock me though. I Mean, you laid out his

259
00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:12,360
case that the Thunder win sixty plus games, he's the

260
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best player on that team and it's not. You know

261
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what people don't like about Jason Tatum is essentially that

262
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he's not Luka Doncicz. Like they either want the assist

263
00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:23,159
numbers to come up or they want him to defend

264
00:12:23,159 --> 00:12:25,480
the other team's best player, kind of like what Yannis

265
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would do, and that's not even what Yannis does. So

266
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that's that's a bad argument. Shay has a stronger case

267
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as the best player on the best team than a

268
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,440
Tatum would, just because I think he has more of

269
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the numbers that people want. But there's also the thing

270
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I worry about putting him three is that isn't there

271
00:12:40,399 --> 00:12:42,840
a chance because I'm just assuming, Okay chet Holmgrin and

272
00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:45,399
Jalen Williams might be All Stars right now, and like

273
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,519
that's part of the how do you separate his value

274
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,159
independent of them? There's a chance if this team just

275
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,720
doesn't have enough on ball creation, if those two don't

276
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,080
take leaps like you could mention Caruso or Hartenstein when

277
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,480
he's healthier, Aaron Wiggins, if you want to. I almost

278
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,519
felt uneasy putting him at three because there's just a

279
00:13:02,519 --> 00:13:05,240
real chance. Okay, the thunder are winning sixty five games,

280
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but their offense is just nowhere even near league average

281
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or like functional when he's off the floor.

282
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting I think for me, so like, and

283
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,000
this applies to Brunson a little bit too, where like

284
00:13:21,159 --> 00:13:23,639
just to keep a confined SGA though, like I don't

285
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,120
think he can be better than he was last year,

286
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,720
and like, by definition, he sort of has to be

287
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,879
better than that to win. Now. The other thing is,

288
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like I do think there's a reasons to believe beyond

289
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:37,759
this year, like amount of talent around him, that some

290
00:13:37,799 --> 00:13:41,120
of his production might dip, which and like, you know,

291
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,159
we don't necessarily think of him first in this sort

292
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of conversation. But he was negatively affected by the league

293
00:13:47,759 --> 00:13:50,679
changing how its rules were enforced last year because he's

294
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just like, he's an ace foul drawer. And in January

295
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,799
he averaged over ten free throw attempts a game. He

296
00:13:56,879 --> 00:13:59,600
never got back above that, which is like right around

297
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,480
you know, most All Star break is when it really

298
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,200
turned down in terms of like the referees kind of

299
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,480
giving the offensive player the benefit of the doubt on

300
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,639
contact and shooting attempts, Like he was down a couple

301
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,879
free throw attempts a game for the next couple months,

302
00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:17,440
down in the playoffs. So like if if the question

303
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,120
if is about him needing to be better, like production wise,

304
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,039
I just don't see the path for that. So the

305
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,559
only way you do get there is if the thunder

306
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,919
win you know, an ungodly number of games, and he's

307
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,279
roughly the same. But I actually think his numbers might

308
00:14:32,279 --> 00:14:36,279
dip for reasons beyond the talent. And I think Brunson's

309
00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:38,279
a little bit that way too, Not that his numbers

310
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:39,840
are going to dip, but like, how can he be

311
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,519
better than last year? He could be more important, But

312
00:14:42,559 --> 00:14:44,120
I don't know if, Like I don't know if he's

313
00:14:44,159 --> 00:14:45,919
got more in him because last year he was so

314
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,879
good and that wasn't enough, you know, to to be

315
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,799
in a serious run for it last year.

316
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,039
Speaker 1: Your point is a good one. I guess the pathway

317
00:14:54,039 --> 00:14:56,240
to him being better would be does he take four

318
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,120
to three pointers a game instead of two and hits

319
00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:00,960
the other ridiculous, and then it's Oh with Brunton. It

320
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,720
feels it's easier to envision his stat line being glitzier

321
00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:06,759
because I think look at the playmaking specifically, I think

322
00:15:06,799 --> 00:15:09,320
the nit Nicks without a healthy Randall or without Randal

323
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,559
at all, need him to do that more than ever,

324
00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:13,679
and I could see his numbers going up. Let's say

325
00:15:13,679 --> 00:15:16,639
he takes the same number of shots, so many more

326
00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:18,399
of them inside the arc are going to be why

327
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:21,480
like semi open compared to what they were last year,

328
00:15:21,799 --> 00:15:24,320
so he could be more efficient. I really want to

329
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:25,840
talk to him, Well, let's I want to focus on

330
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,519
the Yannis. I'm glad that you actually put him at three. Uh.

331
00:15:28,879 --> 00:15:31,240
It feels like we just forget Giannis was so dominant

332
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,519
last year. He changed his shot profile a little bit,

333
00:15:33,559 --> 00:15:35,639
cut out a lot of the junk. I don't know

334
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,639
why he's not like this is when you're at this level,

335
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,799
it's like to anyone, Well, I'm gonna ask you about

336
00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:43,559
Wemby in a second, but like when you're when you're

337
00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:47,120
splitting hairs between Sga, Luka, Jokic and Giannis, it's just like,

338
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:48,960
if you think Giannis needs to win, I'm not going

339
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,080
to fight you on like if this, if if our

340
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,559
ballots make you mad, I think your fifth place guy

341
00:15:54,559 --> 00:15:56,519
in Wemby could make some people mad, And there might

342
00:15:56,559 --> 00:15:58,679
be something to think about there. But when we're talking

343
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,480
about those other fi even if you think that Brunton's

344
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,840
become inflated, where like we're splitting hairs at this level

345
00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:10,200
the Yannest case though, why isn't he Like why have

346
00:16:10,279 --> 00:16:11,919
we We were at a point where just felt like

347
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,799
he was a default well for you, he was a

348
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,480
default top three option, Like I don't even have a

349
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,240
good logic for why I don't think he's here. I'm

350
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,759
worried a little bit about when it comes to games played,

351
00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:22,799
I think he does not have as much agency over

352
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,759
the offense with Damian Lillard there. I'm like, he's still

353
00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:29,279
the same type of player defensively, but he's getting a

354
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,840
little bit older and isn't gonna rely on his athleticism

355
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,039
as much. What does that look like? Again, I'm splitting

356
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,320
already split hairs, So I'm curious why you have him

357
00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:40,720
number three? Like what is the what convinces you to

358
00:16:40,759 --> 00:16:42,159
throw him in that that tire?

359
00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would start by acknowledging there are some

360
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,559
pretty significant like downside angles here, which is the age.

361
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,279
To me, I don't think he's not in his athletic

362
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,080
prime anymore. And he is a player that like when

363
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,519
he was just I say, was like it's over, Like

364
00:16:57,559 --> 00:16:59,039
he you know, had one of his best seasons ever

365
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,840
last year. I do think he's someone that depends more

366
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,799
on athleticism than like technical skill than a lot of

367
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:09,319
these other guys, Like certainly you know him and like

368
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,440
him versus like Luca or Yannis is just like Luca

369
00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:14,400
or Joki is like night and day in terms of

370
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:17,960
like run and jump athleticism versus like technical mastery. Those

371
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,240
guys are just very different. So I think he could

372
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,279
slip a little bit. And the Buck situation obviously has

373
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,799
massive downside because of the age of the core, because

374
00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:29,519
of questions about depth, because of like maybe maybe it's

375
00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:33,079
not a situation where like the Dame Yanis thing will

376
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,119
just be better because it's year two and Dame had

377
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,759
an offseason to get in shape, Like that's all valid.

378
00:17:38,279 --> 00:17:41,279
I just felt like he just clearly to me, is

379
00:17:41,319 --> 00:17:43,720
still the third best guy in the league. I think

380
00:17:43,759 --> 00:17:46,200
the floor is really high. It was almost like a

381
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,200
safe It felt like a safe pick for me, and

382
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,839
I do think to just sort of argue against myself

383
00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:54,119
there is like would you be shocked if the honest

384
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,720
dame pick and roll like actually did work this year?

385
00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:58,880
Like I wouldn't. I think it's possible that that just

386
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,200
becomes a real weapon in ways that we hoped it

387
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:01,920
would last year.

388
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,119
Speaker 1: And like other than I'm sorry, how does that make

389
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,200
a case? Oh you're making a case against you saying

390
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:07,720
there's down here?

391
00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was just going through the possible downsides

392
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,039
for like justifying you having him fifth, for example, Like, yeah,

393
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:15,400
there's a lot of ways that Jannis his season could

394
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,559
be disappointing with quotes around it, because that's a relative

395
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,079
term when you're that good. But I do think there

396
00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:24,039
are a couple like potential glass half full things that

397
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:27,640
you know, I don't think I could get him higher

398
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,400
than third, but like I just felt like it's honest,

399
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,039
he's still close enough to being in his prime, way

400
00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:36,200
more defensive value than anybody on my ballot other than

401
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,720
Wemby obviously, and it's just like he's gonna get thirty

402
00:18:39,759 --> 00:18:42,839
and eleven and five and be efficient and be pretty

403
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,160
di so you know, like I just that's a third MVP.

404
00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:46,720
It's a third place MVP to me.

405
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,200
Speaker 1: I do think subconsciously most of us, and I'll definitely

406
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,599
throw myself in. This tend to gravitate towards the players

407
00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:56,240
who are responsible for more self creation or a larger

408
00:18:56,279 --> 00:18:58,759
part of everyone else's offense. And giannest is kind of

409
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,960
he's not just a play finisher, and he does have

410
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,920
the secondary playmaking element, but he's not a primary self creator.

411
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,039
He's also not the primary table setter. But this is

412
00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:10,920
what I hate doing because now I'm discrediting and I

413
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,519
actually think so part of the downside you mentioned probably

414
00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:16,519
Booy's his case to where it's, well, there's downside for

415
00:19:16,519 --> 00:19:19,559
the Bucks and so they're really good again, But you don't,

416
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,400
you know, Chris Middleton takes a while of ramp up,

417
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,319
isn't as good? Is this the year that brook Lopez

418
00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:26,720
slips measurably? What if Dame just isn't you know? We're

419
00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:28,559
all on penciling in for a bounce back year in

420
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:31,279
the sense of, yeah, he's gonna hit the open threes, guys,

421
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,759
what if he doesn't? And so that could work in

422
00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:35,400
his favor if the Bucks are still right there and

423
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,960
he's putting up the same type of numbers. I have

424
00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:41,960
to ask you about this, though, I understand Wemby's value

425
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,920
in a vacuum, and I don't think there's such a

426
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,880
thing as necessarily hyperbole when it comes to Wemby. Do

427
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,920
you think that we have reached a point where people

428
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,359
can and this is not like this isn't really into

429
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,319
your own view now, it's more about the feasibility of

430
00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:58,559
Wemby being on this ballot. Do you think we've reached

431
00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:00,839
a point where someone can be on it team that

432
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,880
will probably be below five hundred if we're being honest,

433
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,599
and is top five on the MVP, or as part

434
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,960
of your calculus that you just think the Spurs are

435
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,119
gonna be so good, like forty four wins or something

436
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,880
with Wemby, that that's why he's top five for you.

437
00:20:16,279 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 2: It's more I think the real like distilled explanation is

438
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,480
I just want to be on the right side of

439
00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:25,400
history here, Like I just want to have it memorialized

440
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,920
that I had Wemby in the top five on my ballot.

441
00:20:29,079 --> 00:20:31,799
He just I just needed his name there. And obviously,

442
00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:34,400
like Brunson and Tatum are the names, one of those

443
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,440
two should probably be there, but I pick Wemby one

444
00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:40,759
because of that, Like, I do think he's just going

445
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:43,039
to be a transcendent talent, like and I want to

446
00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:44,519
be able to look back and say, like, YEP had

447
00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:47,039
him on there in his second year. The other thing is,

448
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,839
and no, I don't. I don't think the Spurs are

449
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,440
gonna be you know, forty four. That's pretty optimistic. Realistically,

450
00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:57,400
they need like high forties probably for this for him

451
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,279
to have any chance at winning. I'm not saying he's

452
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:02,279
gonna have a chance winning. I do think his individual

453
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,119
numbers are gonna be so insane that there will be

454
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,279
a lot of people that just say, like, I can't

455
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:14,079
keep a guy averaging thirty fifteen, five, four and three

456
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,119
off my MVP ballot, Like I can't do it because

457
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,359
clearly that's insanely valuable. And I spoiler alert he's gonna

458
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,759
rate high in Defensive Player of the Year. So just

459
00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:28,160
from an individual statistical production basis, I do think he's

460
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,359
gonna be one of the five most impactful players in

461
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,160
the league this year. I just I don't think he's

462
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,400
gonna win MVP. I just need the I need his

463
00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:37,599
name on there. And that's so fifth was just like,

464
00:21:37,839 --> 00:21:38,799
that's where he has to be.

465
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,799
Speaker 1: I think if people are looking at how good the

466
00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:43,960
Spurs are on the floor with him, that might be

467
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,839
his entire case. There goes And I've always struggled with

468
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,839
that to where it's like, how much do we penalize

469
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,960
these players like Wemby last year, Like how much do

470
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,319
you the defensive player of the Year stuff? They were

471
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,680
in like the seventy fifth percent title of defensive performance

472
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,440
with him on the court, But they weren't a good

473
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,880
defensive team overall, and so that was people's arguments, Well,

474
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,000
they weren't a good defensive team. How much do you

475
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:05,359
penalize him for the minutes he's not on the court.

476
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,119
But at the same time, like when part of the

477
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,319
value of a Jokic or a Luca is how bad

478
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,960
their teams are without them, it's it's a lot of

479
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,839
pretzel twisting. I think what bodes well for him is

480
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,400
that talent wise, impact wise, I think he could have

481
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,119
top five impact. Who remembers I feel like you remember

482
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,640
when it comes mostly because all these other ballots are three.

483
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:27,440
MVP's the only one that's five. I feel like everyone

484
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,920
remembers first, second, maybe third place, and so I do

485
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,400
believe that there will be maybe more voters than is

486
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,160
normal because it's Wemby. There's like we'll throw him in

487
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,799
fifth because it's fifth. What am iut like are if

488
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,680
Jason Batam doesn't finish fifth because Wemby does, who is that?

489
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:44,440
Who is that really harming? Who is that really angering?

490
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,680
And I think that I hate to simplify his case

491
00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:49,759
down to that, but when we're looking strictly at the

492
00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:53,799
top five, I like that might be the best argument.

493
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,680
Is like he's so good and people don't really care

494
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:57,240
who's fifth.

495
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of is it? Like I that's my

496
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,799
thinking a little bit, is like I putting him fifth

497
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:06,079
to me, you know a lot of times, like you

498
00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:08,240
have Yiannis fifth for example, like Yannis could win it,

499
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,039
and it's like we've made the case for how Wemby

500
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:13,559
I don't think has any chance of actually winning it,

501
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,640
but I still need and so like in contrast, like

502
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,759
I don't have Brunson on mine, Like I could imagine

503
00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:22,079
a scenario where Brunson wins it. I just I want

504
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:25,400
when beyond there because I think it's gonna look completely

505
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:28,000
nuts if he has the statistical season. I think he's

506
00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:30,880
gonna have and I didn't put him on my at

507
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:31,920
the bottom of my ballot.

508
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,839
Speaker 1: What's the number of wins? And we again we don't

509
00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:36,400
necessarily look at the award for this, but what's the

510
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,160
number of wins the Spurs would need to have for

511
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,559
people to actually put him on the Oh, he could

512
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:42,759
win this race? Does it need to be Oh, no,

513
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:44,640
they just won fifty something games? Or is it like

514
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,960
if the Spurs are forty three thirty nine with an

515
00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:50,720
upper echelon defense, or is it just like, what if

516
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,440
they're just one of the top six teams and I

517
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,640
guess that takes let's say, forty six games is kind

518
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,720
of the benchmark there. Maybe that's even too low.

519
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: I mean, if they're in the top in this West

520
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,680
that we keep, you know, it's such a broken record,

521
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,480
but like the West looks really tough at the top,

522
00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:12,240
Like that should be enough, assuming his impact individually is

523
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:15,640
what we project it to be, right, Because like, I

524
00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:18,920
just like I don't know, a lot of my thinking

525
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,599
on Wimby kind of circles back to this same core

526
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,880
idea of like, at some point there's gonna be someone

527
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:29,839
that is just doing stuff we've never imagined. Was possible

528
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,559
before like it'll happen, and maybe it's not Wimby. Maybe

529
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:34,480
it's some guy that's like twelve years old right now

530
00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:36,960
that you know is gonna come into the league next decade,

531
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,400
but like it feels like it's him, and so that

532
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,000
puts everything on the table from you know what is

533
00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:45,519
box score numbers are to like how many wins it

534
00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:48,240
takes to get an MVP award to like maybe and

535
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:52,279
maybe what it sort of reformats for us is like

536
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:55,240
how many wins can a single guy actually add to

537
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:58,000
a team's total, Like maybe this burd just win fifty

538
00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:01,519
games because he's like that dominant and nothing else mattered.

539
00:25:01,599 --> 00:25:02,640
Now that's I don't think that.

540
00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:06,039
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm fifty he wins MVP, right, there's no Yeah,

541
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:06,880
there's your number.

542
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,599
Speaker 2: If they win fifty, he's gone over. Yeah, like forty

543
00:25:10,599 --> 00:25:13,079
three probably not to just answer your question, but you

544
00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:15,880
get into the mid forties, which again I don't think

545
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,680
is likely, Like then you got to have a conversation.

546
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, I think this isn't a win number.

547
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,720
It's what you were saying. If they are a top

548
00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:27,240
six seed in the West, which again I would not predict.

549
00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:30,559
So last year's six Yeah, that is fifty games. Phoenix

550
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:34,160
had forty nine. Yeah last year. So if if they're

551
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:36,839
sixth in the West, I would say that it's over.

552
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:39,920
Like maybe Luca at that point could kind of because

553
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,359
then you that's when you get into the real anecdotal

554
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,880
conversation about it all. So maybe Luca anecdotally could like

555
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,680
that's the one you pit against him. Yeah, But if

556
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,680
they're if they won forty nine games, it's just it's over.

557
00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:53,880
He's probably he has to be the MVP at that point.

558
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, doesn't it. I know, the team's

559
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,400
success is a huge component of MVP. And the reason

560
00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:05,160
that's the case is because like we somewhat correctly think

561
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,160
that the best players are the ones that help you

562
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,400
win the most. But like to your point, and the

563
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,960
one we kind of talk about all the time, it's like, well,

564
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,640
they're not in control of what happens when they're not

565
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,559
on the floor. And in fact, in Jokic's case, we

566
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,279
always point to that as like, oh he's actually he's

567
00:26:20,279 --> 00:26:22,279
the MVP, but actually, like he's even better than that,

568
00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:24,319
because look how shitty Denver is when he doesn't play.

569
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,519
I think that's really going to come into focus for

570
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:28,559
Wemby too, right, Like, and maybe we'll get to a

571
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:31,519
point in our analysis where we just stop caring about

572
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:33,359
how good the team is when he's not in the game,

573
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,319
and you just look at how good they are with him.

574
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,559
And maybe there's where the Spurs do play like a

575
00:26:39,599 --> 00:26:42,079
fifty plus win team when he's in the game, and

576
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,720
we'll get sophisticated enough to just look at that. That's

577
00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:47,880
kind of like wishful thinking, I would imagine, based on

578
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:51,279
you know, how the votes tend to go. But like, again,

579
00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:54,799
maybe he's the guy because it's coming at some point,

580
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:58,000
it's coming where we he just forces a reevaluation of everything.

581
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,079
Maybe it's him.

582
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: So we've mentioned obviously Wenby would be an honorable mention

583
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,839
for me. I think we both talked about Tatum already.

584
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:07,000
He would certainly be up there. Any other names that

585
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,240
you could kind of see party crashing this discussion.

586
00:27:09,559 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: I think Tyrese Haliburton, if the Pacers can be top

587
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,799
four in the in the East, and he on kind

588
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:17,960
of the Nash theory of an MVP, where it's like

589
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,960
this is the best offense in the league and he's

590
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,920
the whole reason. I there's a precedent for that, but

591
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,680
I wouldn't put him on my ballot, I don't think,

592
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,880
but like you know, he sort of was on our

593
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,839
ballots for a lot of last year, so there's sort

594
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,359
of proof of concept there. Zion I think probably is

595
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,960
another one. Uh, just the statistical impact could be ridiculous

596
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,079
if he holds up health wise, Like he's just kind

597
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:42,799
of been a top ten, top eight, top seven MVP

598
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,680
guy in the past. So that's that's there. There's a

599
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,640
lot of guys that I just wrote off as not

600
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,480
you know, likely to play enough games. So I don't know,

601
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,440
do you have anybody else? Do you have Jaw for example?

602
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:54,839
I think that would be another name people.

603
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: Might give him consideration. But if he plays enough games

604
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,720
and the Grizzlies are good, that's a good one for sure.

605
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,640
Uh what about so we And of course, uh, I

606
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,200
don't expect him be to play in enough games either.

607
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,279
I'm trying to think of just is could you see

608
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,160
just like, look, they haven't had a league average offense

609
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,160
since like the Cretaceous period. But if the Magic are

610
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,680
all of a sudden good on offense without making any

611
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,440
really offensive focused editions, I know they have KCP Paolo

612
00:28:23,559 --> 00:28:26,279
feels like the kind of the way that tyres Halburton had.

613
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:28,920
He never gotten injured, party crashed the discussion last year.

614
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,559
I could see him the Magic or top four in

615
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:34,039
the East. Their offense is around league average, are better.

616
00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:36,799
I could see Polo. He's more efficient than he's ever been.

617
00:28:36,839 --> 00:28:37,400
I could kind of.

618
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: See him entering l That's a good one.

619
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: Here's one you're ready to galaxy brain this Julio Entrism

620
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:46,799
at his finest. What if the Clippers are just a

621
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,759
top six team without Kawhi Harden just wedges his way

622
00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:50,920
back in there now.

623
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: No no fucking chance. Oh he's thirty five. If we're

624
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,039
gonna pick thirty five years, I got some other ones

625
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:03,839
i'd put ahead of him. You did, we didn't mention?

626
00:29:04,319 --> 00:29:08,319
I mean, is it Devin Booker is gonna get some

627
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,640
votes splitting with KD? Probably? But I don't know that

628
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,079
either of those two were likely to play enough games.

629
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,279
Speaker 1: I would think Booker probably will. I mean KD did

630
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:18,680
last year. He was pretty fucking good. I would say

631
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,960
what almost hurts Devin Booker is that the ball is

632
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,480
gonna be out of his hands a little bit less.

633
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,880
Maybe there's the uptick in defense, and his scoring numbers

634
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,640
won't suffer as much. But the addition of Tias Jones

635
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,519
kind of telegram like his best case when surrounded by

636
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:33,559
like two other stars is, oh he was he could

637
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,720
average twenty seven points and nine assists because he is

638
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:38,759
their point guard. Yeah, that's just not the case for

639
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:39,440
him anymore.

640
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, last year might have kind of been his shot

641
00:29:42,359 --> 00:29:45,240
really just because of the situation and the facilitating he

642
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:45,640
had to do.

643
00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:50,519
Speaker 1: What happens, what just happens? What's more likely? Let's phrase

644
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:53,279
it this way. Let's say the Lakers are top four

645
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:56,640
in the West. Is Anthony Davis or Lebron more likely

646
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,160
to be on this ballot? Or is JJ Reddick more

647
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,759
likely to be considered coach for the year? You can

648
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:01,680
pick one of the.

649
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:08,839
Speaker 2: If they're top four in the West. I would assume

650
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,440
that that feels to me like Anthony Davis is super

651
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,720
healthy and is maybe defensive Player of the Year and

652
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,839
is like a guy we have to talk about for MVP.

653
00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:21,319
That feels like the most likely of those of those options.

654
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: To me, You're probably right, is there interesting though?

655
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: Because you know, like I can imagine like people wanting

656
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,160
to speak that into existence. Him just being a phenomenal coach,

657
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:32,440
like out of the gate.

658
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,599
Speaker 1: Is there any of the just like Midt, Like anyone

659
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:37,119
could bam or Jimmy sneak in here dept. If they're

660
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:38,880
going to play enough games. I mean, that's not too

661
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,519
much of a concern with bam Well.

662
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: I mean we both think the Calves are gonna be awesome.

663
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,400
I think down ballot, Donovan Mitchell is someone that could

664
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,920
be and you know, somewhere in the six to ten

665
00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:49,759
range potentially.

666
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:51,759
Speaker 1: That's a great call out because I had him at

667
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:54,480
some point last season his first team All NBA before

668
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,880
he the games thing kind of undermined him. Yeah, that's

669
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:01,000
really good, But that's just I struggled. It comes to

670
00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:03,119
this with Devin Booker. I think even with Anthony Davis

671
00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:06,519
and Lebron, when you have another so in Donovan Mitchell's case,

672
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,039
it's just you have these three other super high end players,

673
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:11,839
any of whom could make it All Stars. Like you

674
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,759
have four guys on that team that could be All Stars.

675
00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:16,079
Shay's case is kind of like that, but because none

676
00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:17,680
of them have been All Stars before, it's kind of

677
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,400
easy to overlook it that those are the situation. I'm

678
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,079
not saying the MVP needs to be like from Giannis

679
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,559
isn't necessarily on a helio centric team. I mean, Jokic

680
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,960
is not helio centric in the conventional sense. So but

681
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,720
it's tough for me because I think about vote cannibalization

682
00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:35,960
where it's like, if you told me Embiid played in

683
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,799
seventy games this year, I probably still wouldn't put him

684
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:39,519
on this ballot.

685
00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:43,319
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's like a non star. It's just

686
00:31:43,359 --> 00:31:46,000
like all of the even if there wasn't all this

687
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,240
talk about preserving him for the playoffs, I just you couldn't.

688
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,680
You couldn't go into this with him on your ballot.

689
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:54,799
I'm not getting past the game's played thing. I know

690
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:58,880
I'm fighting the hypothetical here, but yeah, like you, even

691
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,960
if he did play enough, you would assume that, just

692
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,880
like Paul George and Tyry SMAXI, you're gonna have great numbers.

693
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,880
And it's just like that's it's hard to imagine him

694
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,799
winning again. But we don't have to because he's not

695
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:13,440
gonna play enough games. Anybody else we're not getting to

696
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:16,480
you mentioned like Bam and Jimmy. I guess I have one.

697
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,440
We haven't said, Steph. But like that's just he's not

698
00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:21,440
I just don't see how that happens.

699
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:24,799
Speaker 1: Well, isn't It's kind of the same pathways If the

700
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:27,000
Warriors are in the top six with this current roster,

701
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:28,680
I guess you could look at it always kaminga most

702
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:29,400
improved player.

703
00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just it might be a function of depth

704
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,519
they just have. Yeah, they just started.

705
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: If they have like a top ten offense or something like,

706
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:39,519
he might be in the discussion of because they have.

707
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,319
I know they have a ton of talent, but it's

708
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:43,720
none that I think you would guarantee. I mean, I

709
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,319
know Lindy water is the third is like something else,

710
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,799
but like, who on this team do you consider an

711
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:52,400
elite offensive talent or just like a decidedly above average

712
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,799
offensive talent aside from Steph. And it's okay, buddy healed,

713
00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:58,440
of course, but like that's he does, like the shooting thing.

714
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,720
It's not like he's table setting for people.

715
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, that that's yeah. So the thing is, like,

716
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,960
what kind of season does Steph have to have individually

717
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,480
to just have better numbers than Jokich, Luca Sga, like

718
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:14,000
all these guys. Yeah, it's gonna be so hard, And

719
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:14,559
I think.

720
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,519
Speaker 1: That's what's I think the I kind of even though

721
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:18,480
I have Gianni's fifth, Like the four players I think

722
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,200
of is like you have to be statistically as good

723
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,240
or better than Yokich, Luca, Sga and Giannis, like the

724
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:27,640
video game numbers they put up. And with Brunt in okay,

725
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:29,519
we know the Wemmeny path, he just might have video

726
00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:32,759
game numbers himself with Brunts And it's honestly, Brunts should

727
00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:34,640
probably average thirty points in eight assists this year, and

728
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,119
like that's the number where is oh, you could be

729
00:33:36,119 --> 00:33:39,160
in the MVP does Like if Jason Tatum averaged seven

730
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,119
assists per game last year, I bet you he finishes

731
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,960
inside the top three of MVP. I know that's stupid.

732
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:46,359
Here here's one is the thing.

733
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: Just we gotta do Tatum here because neither of us

734
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,160
has him in our top five. Both of us think

735
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,240
that the Celtics are going to win a million games

736
00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:55,480
and he's going to be just as good, you know,

737
00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:57,759
probably as last year. Is it just for me? It

738
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,759
was just like, well, I don't I just don't know

739
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:02,359
what he's got to do, Like I don't think he

740
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,480
has that next level to get up to the you know,

741
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,440
serious conversation that the top like say three or four

742
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,679
occupy here is that kind of where you're at on him.

743
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: I just struggle to pick a nineteen year old to

744
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,840
win mv page. It's pretims, it's still too soon. So

745
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,639
I think his pathway, because I do think he has

746
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:23,119
a pathway, is that if he you know how we

747
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,119
kind of sore towards let's say, like the latter part

748
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,199
of their playoff run, like if he becomes that level

749
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,599
of playmaker as a default to where it's like, oh,

750
00:34:32,599 --> 00:34:35,679
he just averaged six seven assists per game. That feels

751
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,400
like he's because he's never going to be the most

752
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,800
important defender on this team. He's still a good defender,

753
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,360
and so he when you look at all of these

754
00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:45,480
other players, you would say, I would for the most

755
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:48,960
part that they're the most important players in two key

756
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:52,519
areas of the game. And I think for Boston you

757
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:54,800
could make the case that he's their most important scorer

758
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,639
and passer. But it's more of a stretch than like

759
00:34:57,639 --> 00:34:59,760
when you're like when you're trying to check that second

760
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,519
so and that's maybe that's not a good reason to

761
00:35:02,599 --> 00:35:04,159
leave him off. Some people like to de fall to

762
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:05,719
the best player on the best team, and if that's

763
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,519
the case, it should be between SGA and Tatum probably

764
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:11,760
be too. I do have one more I want to nominate.

765
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,039
If I had to put money on a long shot

766
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:16,960
and I don't bet, but if I had to, just

767
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:20,920
Zion Williamson. Yeah, just like if the Pelicans are good

768
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,079
and you'll start maybe Herb Jones is one of the

769
00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:26,599
top five centers in the NBA. Who knows at that point.

770
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,519
But seriously, if the Pelicans are we have a lot

771
00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:31,800
of questions about them. But if he's just healthy, and

772
00:35:32,039 --> 00:35:33,559
if you told me their top four in the West,

773
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:35,840
I know we have our like four teams in some

774
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,840
order in the like OKC, Dallas, Minnesota, Denver done. But

775
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,360
like if you told me New Orleans removed one of

776
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,360
the non OKAC teams from there, it wouldn't shock me.

777
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,119
And I think that would put him kind of similar

778
00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:48,199
to Jaw, that would certainly put him in the discussion.

779
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I definitely have him as

780
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,599
an honorable mention too, just like he's another guy that

781
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,760
I think at that's at this stage of the conversation,

782
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,480
which we should probably end soon because we've gone a

783
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,039
half an Hour on One award. I think it's helpful

784
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:06,719
to look at guys that like that maybe have like

785
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,599
improvement ahead, because really this top group is like, you know,

786
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,880
other than Wemby, throw him out, these guys are like

787
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,639
about as good as you can play, Like, you know, realistically,

788
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,840
it's hard to be any better than these guys have been. Like,

789
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,159
what if Zion really is just gonna hold up and

790
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,239
is in shape and is like recommitted to all the

791
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,320
stuff he hasn't been, Like, there's a possibility he has

792
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,719
another level that we haven't seen yet. And so that

793
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,920
would like, in addition to the Pelicans being kind of

794
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,599
sneaky able to get into that top four if things

795
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:37,320
go right, like he might just not be done getting better, right, Like,

796
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,639
that's the possibility for him in ways, it's not for

797
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:40,559
a couple other guys.

798
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: The other thing, too, isn't the pathway we've already seen,

799
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,400
like the in shape, like the post play in tournament

800
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:47,519
Zion last year. If he's just that for the entire

801
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:49,719
season of the Pelicans win enough games, what is the

802
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,840
argument against including him in this?

803
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: And what if he's just better than that? Like that,

804
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,079
that's that's totally on the table. I think it's not.

805
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:58,559
Is it likely, I don't know, but he.

806
00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: Becomes like toatistically one of the most valuable room protectors.

807
00:37:02,119 --> 00:37:04,559
Speaker 2: Or something, yeah, whatever, like or he just decides to

808
00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:07,239
rebound or if he you know, I don't think the

809
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,760
shooting components ever come in. It doesn't look like based

810
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,280
on the trends of the last couple of years, but

811
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,280
like he could just average like thirty three a game

812
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,360
and shoot sixty five percent from the field because you

813
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,679
just cannot stop him from finishing at the bucket. Like

814
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:23,039
that's I don't know, that's a that's that's a play.

815
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel like there's probably close to it

816
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,400
is fifteen too big of a number to say not win,

817
00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:33,360
but like that could populate some spot in the top five.

818
00:37:33,639 --> 00:37:35,079
Fifteen might be a realist.

819
00:37:35,199 --> 00:37:37,039
Speaker 2: No, I think that's about right, because that those are

820
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:38,840
your all NBA teams, and if you're on an All

821
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,320
NBA team, generally speaking, you're like you you're not necessarily

822
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:44,960
in the top five at any point of the year,

823
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,719
but like you're in the broader conversation for MVP, what did.

824
00:37:48,639 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: You want to shout out any member of the Kings

825
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:51,719
really quickly before we move on.

826
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 2: To no, I think we're good.

827
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: If you want to guess which award is next, since

828
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:57,760
you haven't seen the order that I put.

829
00:37:57,679 --> 00:37:59,679
Speaker 2: Them in, I'm gonna guess you did Defensive Player of

830
00:37:59,679 --> 00:37:59,920
the Year.

831
00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: We've been podcasting together. Some might say for too long.

832
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,239
I would say not long enough. Defensive Player of the Year.

833
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:07,880
I'll take I'll go first on this one. I have

834
00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:11,000
Bam in what might be an upset because Bam isn't Wemby.

835
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:15,480
I have Wenby at two. Go bear it three? Do

836
00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:17,360
you just want to give your bat like our ballots

837
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,079
are well, they're actually pretty I thought we had two

838
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:20,760
of the same guys on it. Your ballot, I find

839
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,280
it absolutely fascinating. I applaud you for your third place pick.

840
00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I go Wemby one, just like the runaway

841
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,719
favorite betting wise right now. And I just you know,

842
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,400
if he blocks five shots a game, I don't know

843
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,800
how you fail to give him a Defensive Player of

844
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:40,639
the Year. CHET two and Evan Mobley three, I.

845
00:38:39,679 --> 00:38:40,079
Speaker 1: I don't know.

846
00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm I feel like this might be the most Evan

847
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,840
Mobley stock I've ever had, which is saying something because

848
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,480
like I had a lot, like very early on when

849
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,920
who were his comps? Do you remember like there was

850
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,119
like Kevin Garnett comps and like really early it's like

851
00:38:55,159 --> 00:38:56,400
what kind of players are he going to be?

852
00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: It was what if Kevin Garnett and Kevin Durant were

853
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:00,000
one player.

854
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,599
Speaker 2: So might have had more stock than but got a lot. Well,

855
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:06,280
and here's the other thing, and I'll give it. I'll

856
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:07,599
send it back to you because I think you need

857
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:11,960
to justify this. Bam pick here why well a little

858
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,079
bit over Wemby and Gobert. I guess I don't have

859
00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:17,679
go Bear on my ballot. I probably should, I feel so.

860
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:21,360
I think, Okay, sees defense is going to be phenomenal.

861
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:24,159
I think Chet will be have some crazy numbers and

862
00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:26,320
have a lot to do with that. And I think

863
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,280
Cleveland's defense is going to be terrific, and I think

864
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,960
mobilely you know, it's just I'm picking guys I'm fairly

865
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,719
confident other than Wemby, because who knows how the Spurs

866
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,039
defense is going to look. You know, overall, it'll be

867
00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:39,599
great when he's on the floor. Chet and Mobley just

868
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:42,960
feel like guys that have room to grow are already

869
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,760
really good. I mean, Mobley finished third two years ago, right,

870
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,320
I think it was two years ago, and he's been

871
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,519
an on all years ago, so I'm taking I'm just

872
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:53,599
stealing your Thunder here with Mobley. I just think those

873
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:56,119
defenses will be great. They'll be the biggest reasons why

874
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,800
and everybody's tired of voting for Rudy Gobert. So I

875
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,400
think I think that's that explains my ballot essentially, the Chet.

876
00:40:03,199 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 1: One I struggle with because not that he won't be

877
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,639
the most important part of a Thunder defense, but it

878
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:11,840
feels like he could have equals, or that they'll just

879
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,800
be so many players on that team that are as

880
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,000
close to as impactful. I mean, one, if I say

881
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,679
a heart and sign is healthy enough in plays a

882
00:40:18,679 --> 00:40:21,519
ton of time and they're playing together like that's so,

883
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:24,199
how much credit do you give Chet in that scenario? Yeah,

884
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:26,199
And then because then he's probably not doing as much

885
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:28,079
as the like the traditional big man stuff when they

886
00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:31,199
anchor defenses. And then just also you have lou dort

887
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,960
On the Caruso on this team, so that's the him.

888
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,360
It too is just like okay, like you have to

889
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,559
you really you would have to. I have to watch

890
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:42,639
the games, which we both know I never do right,

891
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,920
and like really see like oh, like oh, Chet's just

892
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,559
really like the one player that you can't lose on

893
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:50,639
this best defensive team the league, like he doesn't. His

894
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,760
case to being last year is Rudy Gobert to me

895
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,480
is not as clean as Gobear's case to be Rudy

896
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:56,519
Gobert again this year.

897
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: That's a very good argument that Rudy Gobert is more

898
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,880
likely to be like Rudy Gobert than cheded Olgrin, which.

899
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: Is also why I don't have Gobert. I might have

900
00:41:06,039 --> 00:41:09,599
gotten not I got a little, I guess, hesitant here

901
00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:11,719
of picking him again or putting him higher than third

902
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:14,480
because I think that his job and I want to

903
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,360
make it clear I'm not trying to move the goalpost,

904
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,719
but I would not have said this last year. I

905
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,039
do think his job just got harder with moving Karl

906
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:24,519
Anthony Towns. Like in some of those core lineups. If

907
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:27,000
you're gonna play a ton with Julius Randall, I don't

908
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:29,719
know if he's gonna have the same level of impact

909
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:32,119
he might he could win it when shocked me WENBA

910
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:34,559
two is just again it's the same thing with the MVP.

911
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,199
Are we gonna be able to he's the runaway favorite,

912
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,360
so maybe, but when it comes to actually voting him

913
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,519
to win, like putting him even like even Defensive Player

914
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:44,400
of the Year, it's, oh, he finished runner up, like

915
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,360
we remember it. But it's not, oh, man, it should

916
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,440
have been. You're not having a huge argument. It's who

917
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,719
should have won? Are we at the point where if

918
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,840
the Spurs are below average defense or if they're fifteenth

919
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,360
or something in defense, we just look and say later

920
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,440
in the ninety nine percent time with Memmi on the floor.

921
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,320
So because it's we don't, we don't view Defensive Player

922
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,480
of the Year and MVP in the same context, like

923
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,000
those rings are everything for MVP when it comes to

924
00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:11,679
Defensive Player of the Year though they don't carry the

925
00:42:11,679 --> 00:42:12,840
same weight for some reason.

926
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I think the Wemby case, as much

927
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,440
as anything is he's gonna his block numbers are gonna

928
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,599
be just like who knows right, and he's probably gonna

929
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:26,360
average close to two steals and we're just gonna have

930
00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:29,760
We're gonna spend all year going Wemby's on pace to

931
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,840
be the first since whatever orever probably yeah, to have

932
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,000
this many blocks, this many defensive rebounds, this many steals

933
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:42,760
like and and you know, well the the like shot

934
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,599
deterrent stuff all, there are gonna be a million more

935
00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:48,039
clips of guys just like not trying him like that.

936
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,960
I bet you that the San Antonio broadcast, Like you

937
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,960
remember how the screen assists became, like the Utah broadcast

938
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,119
could not stop talking about screen assists with Riego Bert

939
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:56,719
a few years ago.

940
00:42:57,199 --> 00:42:57,679
Speaker 1: I don't remember.

941
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:00,280
Speaker 2: It's gonna be There's gonna be a stat or like

942
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,760
some term of art that comes comes around to explain

943
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,119
or to quantify, like when Wenby just like makes it

944
00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:09,760
so a guy who otherwise would have tried to shoot

945
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,639
just doesn't like it. Just I don't know, like a

946
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,760
like a total deterrent stat or something like that like that.

947
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,519
Will I just I think the momentum is too great.

948
00:43:18,559 --> 00:43:20,840
I think you're making a mistake not having him number one,

949
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,280
even though I love Bam that you do do so

950
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:24,239
my case.

951
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: For Bam is one if you're worried about how the

952
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,360
Miami heater are going to perform at that end, they

953
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,119
were six last year while dealing with injuries to Jimmy Butler,

954
00:43:32,159 --> 00:43:34,760
missed a ton of time specifically, Now you have another

955
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,960
year him Hawkes is better. So you lost Caleb Martin,

956
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:40,159
but like you have Hayward high Smith, so the overall

957
00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:43,159
defense would be just as good. I don't think I

958
00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:45,320
think this could have been the case already. But I

959
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,960
don't even know that who is the who is the

960
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,079
best all round defender in the NBA? Wenby might be

961
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:53,760
the most dominant in like just as someone who is

962
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,159
going to deter shots, but who is your about the

963
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,679
most all around defender checks the most boxes, does so

964
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,719
at a high level. I don't know that there's a

965
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,960
strong case for anyone other dead Bam. I think you

966
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,920
can mention Mobley. I think he could probably mention Herb

967
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,519
Jones again talking all around, because Herb Jones can do

968
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,599
a lot of the big man stuff in addition to

969
00:44:12,639 --> 00:44:16,320
those conventional perimeter guy stuff. Uh. And that's just if

970
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,599
you're gonna be that guy, because and I think he

971
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:20,320
became that guy more than ever last year when we

972
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,800
saw him play more of their like he played more

973
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,400
drop coverage, he did more of the traditional rip protecting stuff,

974
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,880
and it was the best defensive season of his career.

975
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,719
And I also and maybe is this two guy yelling

976
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,840
at clouds he's going to be playing theoretically more meaningful

977
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,599
games later in the season than Wemby is coming to

978
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,760
for being like there and if that's not the thing

979
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,519
that Wenby deserves to win, but like having to defend

980
00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:47,519
at a high level, carrying an elite defense, being the

981
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:49,639
folk crumb of it for a team that's headed to

982
00:44:49,679 --> 00:44:53,079
the playoffs or the play in versus a team that like,

983
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,000
if we're being honest, yeah, the Spurs might have a

984
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,880
pretty high ceiling, but they have a pretty low floor too.

985
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, for.

986
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,079
Speaker 1: Sure that was my case for for BAM. I do

987
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:05,199
think anyone that you named her, anyone on your ballot

988
00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:07,039
could win it. I struggle with Chet the most.

989
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably see that who so well Gobert obviously if

990
00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:13,719
I if I was going to four, I would just

991
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,199
have Gobert there and then probably Bam. Neither of us

992
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,880
has mentioned Anthony Davis, who was like a pretty heavy

993
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,000
factor in this award last year, and you know, still

994
00:45:23,559 --> 00:45:26,159
he might. You know, I think Bam is just better

995
00:45:26,199 --> 00:45:29,119
in space, but like a d is definitely someone you

996
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:33,079
would throw up there as as like completely as a defender, yeah,

997
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:36,119
and with clearly like way better rim protection than BAM has.

998
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:38,159
But yeah, like Bam is kind of a one of

999
00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:40,960
one in terms of guys who can play center credibly

1000
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,639
but just guard any position in isolation. So but a

1001
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,400
D is like he's not easy to drive around like

1002
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,239
that's that's definitely one of the one of the things

1003
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,480
that makes him such a consistent anchor of really good defenses.

1004
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,519
Speaker 1: And also if we were to, let's if let's frame

1005
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:00,519
this case in the same way we would for MVP,

1006
00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:04,000
if you were talking about, well, what are they without him?

1007
00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:06,159
Like even when you look at Bam, when you look

1008
00:46:06,199 --> 00:46:09,159
at Wemby just having a healthy demo of cell Steph

1009
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,920
Cassel there, Jeremy Sohan, who I know is just he's

1010
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,639
not the premier wing checker. But there's like no supplementary

1011
00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:18,119
defensive talent on the Lakers that you can just absolutely

1012
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:20,920
rely on night and night out. Maybe Jared Vanderbilt if

1013
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,440
he's healthy, but he's not gonna play a ton of

1014
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,360
minutes because of what he gives back on the offensive

1015
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,480
end too. Maybe Gay Vincent if he's healthy, also not

1016
00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:29,519
someone who's in net plus on the so how many

1017
00:46:29,559 --> 00:46:33,239
minutes does he play? Ad has that MVP type defensive

1018
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,800
player of the argument where if the Lakers are good defensively.

1019
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,480
It's will look at look at they're good defensively, and

1020
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:40,079
look at what he's defending around.

1021
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say too. It hasn't always

1022
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,280
been the case that the on off numbers have borne

1023
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,599
this out, but those we know, those can be noisy.

1024
00:46:48,159 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: Uh.

1025
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,599
Speaker 2: The eye test for ad is just like teams play

1026
00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:54,760
offense differently when he's in the game versus out. Yeah,

1027
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,320
like just it's just fundamentally changes the types of shots

1028
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,119
that are like available, and so yeah, he's way up

1029
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:04,559
there for me. We also another name, I mean one

1030
00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:07,719
or two years ago, Jared Jackson Junior. If we it's

1031
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,039
it's another sort of you gotta bet on Memphis getting

1032
00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:12,119
back to where it was. But like if you have

1033
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,639
Edie in the middle, and Jared Jackson gets to rove again,

1034
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,840
like that he's done it before. Like's not it's not

1035
00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:20,719
beyond him. We know that for a fact.

1036
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: Do you think Giannis is still capable of winning this award?

1037
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's still capable. He'd be another guy that,

1038
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,920
like if these ballots went a little longer, you might

1039
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,519
throw up there just to be like, hey, he's like

1040
00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:38,079
generationally great defensively for basic a decade, like, but I

1041
00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:43,519
don't think it's likely, you know, based on last year. Maybe,

1042
00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:46,840
but then if you're pricing in some moderate athletic decline,

1043
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,440
like maybe not, maybe he's not quite there anymore, but

1044
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,960
that you gotta include the name at least, right, do

1045
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,639
you know it could be an interesting one, Joelle embiid

1046
00:47:55,559 --> 00:47:58,320
just if he plays in enough games in the sense

1047
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,599
of okay, they've now, I would assume lighting his offensive load.

1048
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:05,039
Speaker 1: He's even talked about deferring to tyre's maximum. And look,

1049
00:48:05,039 --> 00:48:06,599
we saw him being willing to do so in last

1050
00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:10,079
year's playoffs at points and now he can just be

1051
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:12,760
more locked in on a possession by possession basis because

1052
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,199
he is one of he's not one of the most versatile.

1053
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:16,480
I think there are teams, you know, you go up

1054
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,679
against Boston, New York, these teams with like I don't

1055
00:48:19,679 --> 00:48:22,000
worry about Milwaukee as much, but like the teams with

1056
00:48:22,119 --> 00:48:24,840
stretch bigs where you don't necessarily have someone that you

1057
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,000
can hide him on on the perimeter, and New York

1058
00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:29,000
might not even like you could put him on Josh Harden,

1059
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,719
maybe go that route. He is just dominant when he

1060
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,119
is on Like you talk about someone who changes the

1061
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:38,199
way that offense is play. For the most part, he's there.

1062
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,159
I would never pick him because of the game's played

1063
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:42,760
thing now, but I almost wonder now if you threw

1064
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,360
that out of the equation, it feels like his case

1065
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,559
becomes stronger because of how they've simplified in fury his

1066
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:50,760
life on the offensive end.

1067
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, why can't he be a Brook Lopez type

1068
00:48:53,559 --> 00:48:55,880
defensive Player of the Year candidate? You know, like that's

1069
00:48:56,159 --> 00:48:58,920
that's the path for him? Og.

1070
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:03,039
Speaker 1: I mean, I wanted to ask you who's the most

1071
00:49:03,199 --> 00:49:05,119
likely non big.

1072
00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess. I guess, well, if o g

1073
00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:12,519
wins it, it might be because he's doing like big things.

1074
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: Excuse me, carl anthy Towns is the is the real

1075
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,599
defensive player of the year Canadate in New York.

1076
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 2: So if we just go guards, it's probably Jalen Suggs.

1077
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,400
I would I would think, like, but I I don't

1078
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,840
know how high you could realistically rank him, just because

1079
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:31,400
I mean, it's just so hard like we did. We

1080
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,239
did it with the Marcus Smart thing, but that had

1081
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,920
a lot to do with positional versatility too. I don't

1082
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,679
know that we were gonna see a six four six

1083
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,159
five guy win it for quite some time. I mean

1084
00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:42,519
Herb Herbs another one.

1085
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: I think her well, Herbs a five, so he doesn't count.

1086
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,119
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, so you keep saying this like I

1087
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:51,400
know that there was the stuff about like he's gonna

1088
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,679
do some center. Yeah, I don't know he's gonna guard

1089
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,639
the bigs or to be the rim protector or whatever.

1090
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,719
Like do you really think that's how they're gonna do

1091
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,519
it like that. I don't think that's legit.

1092
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,559
Speaker 1: I think it's semi legit. I'm more so trolling the

1093
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,280
Pelicans messaging as well as the fans that are sipping

1094
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,159
on it. Of just like Herb is a five, this

1095
00:50:09,199 --> 00:50:11,760
isn't gonna do anything to what Zion does type deal.

1096
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,159
And it's even if that's one hundred percent the case,

1097
00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:19,320
you don't want Herb Jones playing that much center like

1098
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,239
you just like you it if.

1099
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: Only because like he's so good on the ball in space,

1100
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,639
like you're just taking that away.

1101
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: Like and you can't do something less versatile, then almost

1102
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:32,480
in there. But I will say, if we're talking perimeter players,

1103
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,360
I think so the path to the perimeter player winning

1104
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,800
it would be the Herb Jones or oganinobi mold where

1105
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,599
it's they can do other things like guarding up and

1106
00:50:39,639 --> 00:50:43,280
that if we're gonna see like Jalen Suggs all defensive

1107
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,519
candidate for sure, but in terms of any defensive player year,

1108
00:50:45,519 --> 00:50:47,960
I'd agree with you because it feels like he doesn't

1109
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,000
necessarily scale up all that well. It would have to

1110
00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:53,159
be and this might even be a stretch, would be

1111
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,760
if Alex Caruso from last season played like thirty five

1112
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,480
minutes a game on a tea that was relevant. I

1113
00:50:59,519 --> 00:51:01,960
don't think one Alex cors is gonna play thirty five

1114
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,639
minutes a game on this It'd be really funny though,

1115
00:51:03,679 --> 00:51:06,239
if he ends up being like seems more valuable than

1116
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,519
Chet and ends up on this ballot. The Thunder just like,

1117
00:51:11,079 --> 00:51:14,400
are they just gonna have the best defense? Don't you?

1118
00:51:14,519 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: I think so, don't you? I think that's the I mean,

1119
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:19,119
Minnesota was so far ahead of the field last year

1120
00:51:19,159 --> 00:51:20,920
that it's like, should you just pick them again even

1121
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,679
if they're five or ten percent worse? But the Thunder

1122
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,039
just their depth of great defenders is like, I just

1123
00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:31,199
they they're always gonna have like where are the weak links? Like,

1124
00:51:31,639 --> 00:51:33,519
I mean like there's always gonna be a relative week link.

1125
00:51:33,559 --> 00:51:35,360
But where's the actual weak link of the guys that

1126
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:35,960
are gonna play?

1127
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:39,039
Speaker 1: How many players do they have who could feasibly make

1128
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:42,000
an All defense team in any given season? At least three?

1129
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,039
Maybe four? Right? I mean, if you want to include

1130
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:47,800
Hart and start maybe maybe because I would include the

1131
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:52,000
locks is not to make it. But Caruso, Dort and

1132
00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:54,320
Chet could absolutely make an All defense team in any

1133
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,440
given season. Yeah, and if there are people who made

1134
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,719
a case for say, right last year, I wasn't one

1135
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,360
of them. You have Jay Dubb and then Hartenstein, Like

1136
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,639
there are people who thought that he could have been

1137
00:52:04,039 --> 00:52:06,840
that level player. So I would say four is like

1138
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,119
maybe that's the Like, they have four guys that could

1139
00:52:10,119 --> 00:52:12,840
just any given season make an All defense team. That's

1140
00:52:13,079 --> 00:52:13,480
even the.

1141
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 2: Guys you don't I mean, Cason Wallace can guard like

1142
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,519
he he's not gonna play enough and like he's fairly

1143
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:22,920
limited in who he can guard.

1144
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:24,559
Speaker 1: Of basketball at large?

1145
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: Who else do we not mention?

1146
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: Just is there a perimeter player that we're for forgetting

1147
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,559
because we have herb O g And that was those

1148
00:52:34,559 --> 00:52:36,719
are the only two perimeter players we mentioned, right.

1149
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Herbo, I mean.

1150
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,079
Speaker 1: Are you ready, Yeah, Amen Thompson.

1151
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah right, both Thompson's sar Thompson too.

1152
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: Like I mean, let's not let's not pick any pistons here,

1153
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:51,880
let's not get carry it away.

1154
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: We haven't said Draymond Green, He's probably not gonna play enough.

1155
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,760
But like just on reputation alone, he warrants a mention here.

1156
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: And if I I question his IQ at this stage

1157
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,679
because he thinks kaminga is a three. So I'm a

1158
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:06,480
little concerned.

1159
00:53:06,639 --> 00:53:09,079
Speaker 2: You think his processing speed has slowed down a little bit,

1160
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:10,159
It's possible.

1161
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:14,199
Speaker 1: What I mean, if he played in seventy games, is there.

1162
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 2: He'd be an all defensive candidate, like I think he's

1163
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,360
still and especially if he played a lot more center,

1164
00:53:20,519 --> 00:53:25,280
because I just I think that you know, everybody, name me,

1165
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,519
who's the last guy who's not actually a center that

1166
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:29,480
when they play, you know, their coach wants to play

1167
00:53:29,519 --> 00:53:31,840
them up, they're like, I'm good, I love it. Like

1168
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,199
everybody's like I don't want to do this. Even Anthony

1169
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:35,679
Davis doesn't want to be a center. It's like a

1170
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,760
running joke for ten years. Like I do think if

1171
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:44,000
Draymond played a lot, if he played seventy games, you'd

1172
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,519
have to have him on an all defensive team. I

1173
00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:47,039
don't know if you'd ever have him on your on

1174
00:53:47,079 --> 00:53:48,559
your DPO why ballot.

1175
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,119
Speaker 1: But well, what if he plays in seventy games, the

1176
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:54,039
Warriors win thirty and their defense is seventeen, then yeah,

1177
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:55,800
just gets it.

1178
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,559
Speaker 2: Because of how bad would they be without him?

1179
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: If anyone else that you think we're do you hear

1180
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,639
my dogs just there I rate in the back.

1181
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: They are not happy with the Draymond Green mention. It's

1182
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:04,480
pretty clear.

1183
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: I think that's do we forget anyone? I mean, Jade

1184
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,280
McDaniels as a perimeter player, would you consider him?

1185
00:54:11,519 --> 00:54:13,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd be on the list there of guys that

1186
00:54:14,199 --> 00:54:19,320
you know we should mention but just aren't gonna win it. Yeah,

1187
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,519
I mean normally you'd start throwing out the Kawha's and

1188
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:23,360
the Paul George's and stuff.

1189
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:25,119
Speaker 1: But I think anybody in Boston win it.

1190
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,079
Speaker 2: I mean, Derek White. We haven't said Derek White or

1191
00:54:28,119 --> 00:54:31,800
Drew Holliday yet, but they're not I mean vote cannibalization

1192
00:54:32,039 --> 00:54:34,320
guards like there's all these like tick the boxes that

1193
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,880
going against them. But if you're talking to the best

1194
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,800
perimeter defenders, you have to say those names.

1195
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: Uh I think that. I don't. I don't think we're forgetting.

1196
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,440
We're probably forgetting someone Atgreed, I mean per.

1197
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,039
Speaker 2: A minute Jonathan Isaac, but he's not. I mean, they

1198
00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:48,199
don't think he's gonna play more than the fifteen point

1199
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:49,519
eight minutes he played last year.

1200
00:54:50,159 --> 00:54:52,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, how like, how dominant would he need to be

1201
00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:55,440
in sixteen minutes a game. Let's say he plays in

1202
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,400
seventy five though, Like, you can't win that award if

1203
00:54:58,440 --> 00:54:59,039
you're playing.

1204
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: No, I don't think you can. I mean, what was

1205
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,079
it like with him on the floor last year? The

1206
00:55:05,159 --> 00:55:07,400
defensive rating was like one oh two, which is like

1207
00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:10,159
six points better than the Timberwolves. And when he was

1208
00:55:10,199 --> 00:55:12,719
off it was like one twelve, which would have been

1209
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,760
like eighth in the league. So it's just like, when

1210
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:17,400
he's on the floor, you can make the case he's

1211
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,519
the most impactful defensive player in the league. It's just

1212
00:55:19,559 --> 00:55:22,400
like it's about a quarter of the game is like

1213
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,639
where he maxes out. So how valuable is that?

1214
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 1: I have a theoretical but this player plays in at

1215
00:55:29,519 --> 00:55:32,280
least twenty eight minutes a game, his team has a

1216
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,400
top five defense. Could Derek Lively the second make a

1217
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:36,840
push here.

1218
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,199
Speaker 2: Oh that's fun. Yeah, yeah, I could see that. I

1219
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:45,880
could definitely see that because like if if the MAVs

1220
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,440
have a top five defense, it's gonna be because they

1221
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,840
get like elite, Like, you know, him alone makes a

1222
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,920
good defense wior stuff.

1223
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,119
Speaker 1: Don't you think I would worry about like sort of

1224
00:55:57,159 --> 00:55:59,679
the co opt between him and Daniel Gafford to where

1225
00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:02,079
it's gonna split the minutes basically down the middle. Again,

1226
00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:06,119
then you can't pick either one wildly certainly more versatile,

1227
00:56:06,639 --> 00:56:09,639
like they both bring sort of the like the verticality element.

1228
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,440
So I think he would have to not only will

1229
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:13,920
the Maps have to have an elite defense, but I

1230
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,000
think the bigger swing with him would be, well, how

1231
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,519
many minutes is this guy playing? Because there's so many

1232
00:56:18,519 --> 00:56:20,599
different things they could do, not just play Gafford, but

1233
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,360
if they want to play some PJ at the five,

1234
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,239
or if they want Kliba as the loane big for

1235
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,400
like two minutes, five minutes a game, whatever.

1236
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 2: Dwight Powell needs this needs this piece.

1237
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: I think still Kawhi on the Clippers, you think he'll

1238
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:37,440
hit sixty five games?

1239
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 2: I think he's probably gonna hit like eighty five.

1240
00:56:40,159 --> 00:56:42,199
Speaker 1: I feel really bad for him. By the way, I'm

1241
00:56:42,199 --> 00:56:44,360
not I make jokes about the availability, but it's not

1242
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:46,079
I don't want him to be injured. And I do

1243
00:56:46,159 --> 00:56:50,880
find it funny, not funny. I find it odd how

1244
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,719
how easily fans just assume that players don't want to

1245
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,679
play basketball, Like you actually think that Kawhi is faking

1246
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,360
degenerative need or that he is somehow here through a

1247
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:03,280
fault of his own.

1248
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 2: Who's making that case, whore?

1249
00:57:06,679 --> 00:57:07,119
Speaker 1: That's why.

1250
00:57:07,199 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 2: So this is the problem. No one, no serious person

1251
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,679
actually thinks that, Like, so get it out of your brain.

1252
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,519
It's not a serious person's opinion.

1253
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: Well even isn't a little dude. So it's like, how

1254
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:20,519
much blamed you assigned to Joelle Embiid for his health

1255
00:57:20,519 --> 00:57:22,599
issues because people think that he hasn't put in the work.

1256
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,159
Speaker 2: Well, I mean more than I would assigned to Kauhi

1257
00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:28,639
for his just just because of like all the stuff

1258
00:57:28,679 --> 00:57:31,239
you would hear and read about Embiids, like when he

1259
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,079
was younger, like his eating habits and his conditioning stuff.

1260
00:57:34,119 --> 00:57:36,639
And it's just like, well, you're not you're not helping yourself.

1261
00:57:36,679 --> 00:57:38,559
I don't know if you're hurting yourself, but like you

1262
00:57:38,679 --> 00:57:41,400
never heard anything about that type of thing with Kawhi, right,

1263
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,880
Like he's always in great shape and like puts the

1264
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:44,840
work in and stuff.

1265
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: Well, people don't like him because he doesn't talk, he

1266
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,239
doesn't emote the way they want him to. And the

1267
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,960
helicopter story from a couple of years ago, it was

1268
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:53,960
objectively funny too.

1269
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: That's a boss move to just commute, what is the

1270
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,599
next award? You picked Rookie of the Year next?

1271
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: I think you're wrong.

1272
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,599
Speaker 2: Oh damn it, you're right.

1273
00:58:05,639 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: What's your ballot look like?

1274
00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 2: All right? I got zach Edie one, Read Shepherd two,

1275
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:14,159
Zachary Resa che was just like a shrug emoji. Third pick.

1276
00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:20,199
I don't know to me, like the Edie and Shepherd thing, Uh,

1277
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,800
I think Shepherd's gonna be the best player in the class.

1278
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,159
But Edie just has like a red carpet rolled out

1279
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,320
for a huge role like and to be like a

1280
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:36,039
really conspicuously big reason why Memphis potentially is going to

1281
00:58:36,119 --> 00:58:39,320
be good. So I just think it's easier for me

1282
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,199
to think or to imagine Edie winning it, even if like,

1283
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:45,599
give you're giving me the next five years of both

1284
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:47,599
of these guys. I'm taking read Shepherd.

1285
00:58:48,519 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have so my ballot has read it number one,

1286
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,960
because I think that he's just going to be, by

1287
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,119
far and away the most dominant rookie. I worry about

1288
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:58,280
the opportunity that he'll have, as you kind of outlaid,

1289
00:58:58,599 --> 00:59:01,960
I have Eatie two. Just I've watched him, and I

1290
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,679
see it, and I'm just assuming he's gonna play a

1291
00:59:03,719 --> 00:59:05,880
bunch of minutes for a good team. And that's part

1292
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,000
of what intrigued me so much about Case and Wallace

1293
00:59:08,159 --> 00:59:10,159
last year. Not I didn't pick him Brook of the Year,

1294
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:13,280
but I mean, and also Chet of course, and Wenby

1295
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,360
was not on a good team. But I just isn't

1296
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,639
it their chance that like he has a mud like

1297
00:59:19,679 --> 00:59:21,559
we're so many people are kind of penciling him in

1298
00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:23,719
where it feels like he's a consensus top two choice,

1299
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:26,880
but there's like the real potential for this to look

1300
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:28,800
egregious six months from now. Right.

1301
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:31,519
Speaker 2: Well, so I think it was either a hot take

1302
00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:33,920
or like a bold prediction where I where I made

1303
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,199
the case that Shepherd's gonna win it, and like to

1304
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:39,599
make that argument, you have to say he's gonna be

1305
00:59:39,639 --> 00:59:41,760
so good. I think what I said it was probably

1306
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,239
a hot take, like he's just gonna be undeniable. So

1307
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:47,320
where all this stuff about, Like the Rockets have seventeen

1308
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:48,960
guys that are twenty three and unders that all need

1309
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,880
to play. They also have Fred van Fleet who's really,

1310
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,039
really good, so the opportunity won't be there. The case

1311
00:59:54,039 --> 00:59:55,679
you just have to make is he'll be so good

1312
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,239
and so valuable on both ends of the floor that

1313
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,679
he just has to play. And he played is enough

1314
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:03,679
to where maybe it's even more than Edie does, because

1315
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,320
rookie biggs just don't tend to have high minute totals,

1316
01:00:06,719 --> 01:00:10,159
so like it could look bad if you know, Aman

1317
01:00:10,239 --> 01:00:13,400
Thompson just needs to play thirty five minutes a night

1318
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,239
and Jalen Green is incredible and like the just minutes

1319
01:00:16,239 --> 01:00:19,159
aren't there, But like I don't think. I don't think

1320
01:00:19,679 --> 01:00:21,480
picking Reed Shepherd first for Rookie of the Year is

1321
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:25,360
ever gonna look ridiculous just because we're gonna flash forward

1322
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,519
and he's like, how is he not gonna be one

1323
01:00:27,559 --> 01:00:29,960
of the best players in this class? Like down the line,

1324
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:30,880
I just don't see it.

1325
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:33,679
Speaker 1: I meant, more so through the lens of Edie to

1326
01:00:33,719 --> 01:00:36,360
where it's what if he can't log a ton of

1327
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,039
minutes for a good Grizzlies team, not because he's bad,

1328
01:00:39,119 --> 01:00:41,920
but it's just they're better off with Brett and Clark

1329
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,719
out there with Santi aldam or they're better off with

1330
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,519
Jaron Jackson Junior is the lone big just for this season.

1331
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 2: I mean in that sense the preseason in Summer League,

1332
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,639
because in which he played like one game, right, Edie did,

1333
01:00:54,079 --> 01:00:58,000
are doing a lot of work because the profile of

1334
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:02,440
a fairly immobile big center who doesn't stretch the floor

1335
01:01:03,239 --> 01:01:06,159
having a big role in today's NBA is like, like,

1336
01:01:06,199 --> 01:01:08,800
who is it that's especially young guys, Like I don't know,

1337
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:10,760
you have to look at Lively, I guess, but Lively

1338
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,239
is such a different caliber of athlete, you know, the

1339
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,360
way he moves is just much more suited to the

1340
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,920
modern game. Eadie's Like, if Edie does really well, I

1341
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,079
think it's gonna be really fun because he'll be like

1342
01:01:21,159 --> 01:01:24,760
such a throwback bruiser just I'm bigger than you type

1343
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:26,880
player and we don't have a lot of those guys.

1344
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,719
But yeah, totally, like he could just we could know

1345
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,760
in the second week of the season, like he just can't,

1346
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,079
Like he's just a traffic cone like in space he

1347
01:01:36,239 --> 01:01:39,559
just can't move laterly enough to like be out there

1348
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:42,159
for big minutes, and the and the Grizzlies could say like,

1349
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:44,440
we'll just play Jaron Jackson at center, like we're good

1350
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,360
with that. So yeah, totally he could. He there's risk

1351
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:49,679
there too. I made it out like, oh, it's guaranteed,

1352
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:51,159
but yeah, there's risk for sure. No.

1353
01:01:51,239 --> 01:01:53,239
Speaker 1: I think you framed it as it feels like him

1354
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,159
or Shepherd will be the picks and Eadie might be

1355
01:01:56,159 --> 01:01:58,440
a lot of the defaults because I think the opportunity

1356
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:00,840
is more etched in own for him. I just think

1357
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:02,559
read Shepherd is going to be so good that yea

1358
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,360
by Jalen Green, as you kind of mentioned, So I

1359
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,039
have Cody Williams' third. A lot of that's opportunity. A

1360
01:02:08,039 --> 01:02:09,559
lot of that's also I had him number one on

1361
01:02:09,559 --> 01:02:11,559
my board, I probably would have read Shepherd number one

1362
01:02:11,599 --> 01:02:13,840
if I was redoing it. I think there's gonna be

1363
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,960
more to his offensive game. A lot of people think

1364
01:02:16,119 --> 01:02:19,079
that he like won't have necessarily the on ball kind

1365
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:22,360
of speed or versatility. I really don't know if he does,

1366
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:23,880
but I kind of see the skeleton of someone who

1367
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,280
can and I think those types of touches will be

1368
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,960
there for him just based off what this Jazz team is.

1369
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,039
I think he might be able to shine on the

1370
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:33,360
defensive end Taylor Hendrix and Walker Kessler to do a

1371
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,039
lot of heavy lifting, but when it kind of comes

1372
01:02:35,039 --> 01:02:37,559
to having to defend some of the top tier assignments

1373
01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:41,079
on the outside, that will fall on him. But I think, honestly,

1374
01:02:41,159 --> 01:02:43,800
this is a class when you kind of factor in, well,

1375
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,280
how do you feel about this player, and then how

1376
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,599
do you feel about this player's role? You could probably

1377
01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:49,880
could You could talk me to Donovan klingon if Portland

1378
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,440
decides to like consolidate your big man rotation at some point.

1379
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he could. He could have for sure

1380
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,960
like that. He's down my ballot too, on the theory

1381
01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:59,719
of like you gotta if you trade Aighton and Robert

1382
01:02:59,719 --> 01:03:02,519
William then just hand him the job and see what happens,

1383
01:03:02,719 --> 01:03:05,360
and then you could have like a Walker Kesseler type case,

1384
01:03:05,519 --> 01:03:07,239
you know, where he's probably not gonna win it, but

1385
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,639
he's he's up there. I'm trying to think, who else,

1386
01:03:10,719 --> 01:03:13,480
what do you think about Khalil? Where if he or

1387
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:18,119
I've said I've seen Khalil and kellel I don't know

1388
01:03:18,159 --> 01:03:20,280
which it is. I think maybe I said it wrong.

1389
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,239
Speaker 1: I think it might be I think it's I've been

1390
01:03:22,239 --> 01:03:24,840
saying it Khalil. I could look up the phonetic pronunciation.

1391
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:28,679
Speaker 2: I think it's anyway where I think it's. I think

1392
01:03:28,679 --> 01:03:30,840
it's Kalel, like kind of like the Superman thing.

1393
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,559
Speaker 1: For what it's worth, Basketball Reference has it as Khalil

1394
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,400
okay Uh.

1395
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,159
Speaker 2: If he ends up getting a starting job at some

1396
01:03:39,239 --> 01:03:41,159
point in the season, I don't know how likely that

1397
01:03:41,239 --> 01:03:42,880
is anymore. There was a lot of buzz about that

1398
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:45,840
he's he's I don't think he can win it, but

1399
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,639
he's someone that like might make an All rookie team.

1400
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,159
Just want to throw his name out there. I guess

1401
01:03:50,159 --> 01:03:53,639
I should justify Resache. I think he's got the opportunity.

1402
01:03:54,039 --> 01:03:54,880
I should think.

1403
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,519
Speaker 1: By the number one big being on the rookie isn't

1404
01:03:57,559 --> 01:03:58,000
that weird?

1405
01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:00,719
Speaker 2: Like what if that doesn't tell you about this draft class?

1406
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,920
I don't know what does. Maybe there's a little Brandon

1407
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,599
Miller theory where it's like, as a prospect, he was

1408
01:04:06,679 --> 01:04:08,679
viewed as like a low ceiling he can do a

1409
01:04:08,719 --> 01:04:10,159
little bit of this, a little bit of that, not

1410
01:04:10,199 --> 01:04:12,239
going to be great at like the things you want

1411
01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:15,199
from that position. Maybe he's got a little more on

1412
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,559
ball stuff than we think, Like, you know, it doesn't

1413
01:04:17,559 --> 01:04:17,800
get a.

1414
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: Cance to show it is that he would almost So

1415
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,960
he has to be great in areas people typically don't

1416
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,880
focus on where it's like when it comes to rookie Biggs, it's, oh,

1417
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,000
we recognize how valuable they are on defense. So he's

1418
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,559
gonna have to be an exceptional perimeter defender and an

1419
01:04:30,599 --> 01:04:34,039
exceptional shooter and cutter and floor runner and transition and

1420
01:04:34,119 --> 01:04:36,840
like none of those are traditionally things that what gets

1421
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,320
people Rookie of the Year is Oh, look at his

1422
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:39,920
assist or look what he did on the ball. Look

1423
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,519
what he did is the defensive anchor down low. That's

1424
01:04:43,559 --> 01:04:45,119
not to say he shouldn't win if he had the

1425
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:47,400
type of season. I just I don't know what his

1426
01:04:47,559 --> 01:04:49,320
role is going to be on a Hawks team that

1427
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,199
has an incentive to not lose.

1428
01:04:52,079 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 2: Right, Well, the thing is that all those all those

1429
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,719
things you mentioned, like those are the things he's pretty

1430
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,000
good at, right or theoretically is pretty good at it

1431
01:05:00,199 --> 01:05:03,280
on the margin stuff. So maybe if he's like a

1432
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,679
star in his role, you know, as a cutter, as

1433
01:05:05,719 --> 01:05:08,880
a spot up shooter. As a defender, he finishes third

1434
01:05:09,559 --> 01:05:11,440
like he can't. I don't see I don't see a

1435
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,840
path to winning it. It just feels this will this

1436
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,199
is guarantees will be wrong, like there will be someone

1437
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,199
that crashes the Edie Shepherd twosome.

1438
01:05:19,239 --> 01:05:21,519
Speaker 1: Here are we sleeping on any of the Wizard's rookies

1439
01:05:21,559 --> 01:05:26,159
here where it's sheer opportunity Sorrow, I mean four plays

1440
01:05:26,159 --> 01:05:28,519
a four or five whatever. Bub Carrington might be a

1441
01:05:28,559 --> 01:05:30,360
nice sleeper if they're gonna give him the reins of

1442
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,400
the offense for you know, at least twenty minutes a game.

1443
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I could, I mean it. Yeah, we probably

1444
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:42,960
went too far without mentioning Sar just because he's got

1445
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,559
a play right one. So there's he's got that over

1446
01:05:45,719 --> 01:05:48,480
like Shepherd for example, or even Eadie, like there are

1447
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,559
scenarios where they don't play a lot. Sorrow is just

1448
01:05:50,599 --> 01:05:53,000
gonna play the whole year if he's healthy. So maybe

1449
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:54,840
that gets the counting numbers up to where he has

1450
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:55,639
to be on the ballot.

1451
01:05:56,159 --> 01:05:58,599
Speaker 1: Do you know who could have an interesting case if

1452
01:05:58,639 --> 01:06:00,920
what he's doing in the preseas he's and holds not

1453
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:04,440
Dalton connect Sorry like Ryan Dunn. Yeah. Yeah, Like if

1454
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,079
he's just pointing the way he is, he's going to

1455
01:06:06,159 --> 01:06:07,360
be a closing lineups.

1456
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:07,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1457
01:06:07,639 --> 01:06:10,199
Speaker 1: And if you're in that for a top five Western

1458
01:06:10,199 --> 01:06:12,920
Conference team as a rookie, you probably have some Okay, oh,

1459
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,159
we only average eighteen minutes a game, I'd probably just

1460
01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:15,719
pick him at that.

1461
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 2: I feel like if we had done this, I don't know,

1462
01:06:22,519 --> 01:06:24,760
a month or two ago, we would have mentioned Rob

1463
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:26,960
Dillingham just on the theory of he's going to run

1464
01:06:27,039 --> 01:06:28,840
the second unit. He's going to have, you know, might

1465
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,320
average fourteen points a game. And now it's kind of

1466
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,880
looking like that role has already shrunk. Uh So just

1467
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,960
you know, shout out to what used to be Rob

1468
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,840
Dillingham's fringe rookie of the year case it doesn't exist anymore.

1469
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: There's already a swell of Eves Mecie is better than

1470
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,559
Daniel Tye. And so what if he ends up starting

1471
01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:47,800
at center for the bet like they decided to start

1472
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,280
him by the end of the year. I can't I'm.

1473
01:06:51,159 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 2: Not out of the question. Daniel Tye has not looked

1474
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,599
good in preseason that that was one of the things

1475
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,559
I was watching some tape and reading up it's just like, yeah,

1476
01:06:58,599 --> 01:07:00,880
this no one thought this was gonna work, but it's

1477
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,440
really not going to work. I don't think with him

1478
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:03,199
in the middle.

1479
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,599
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a team that should I mean,

1480
01:07:05,639 --> 01:07:09,280
there are two teams that could theoretically give huge opportunities

1481
01:07:09,639 --> 01:07:11,440
to their rookies. I just don't think they're going to

1482
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:15,880
but modest Buzzellis in Chicago, and then uh T, John

1483
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,280
Salon and Charlotte. I think Charlotte's like pretty deep and

1484
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,360
while they are rebuilding, it's okay the Miles Bridges. If

1485
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,800
Mark Williams is healthy, of Nick Richards Grant Williams, so

1486
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,320
he feels more of like, oh, he'll be a main

1487
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,280
part of what they're doing post trade deadline or post

1488
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,119
All Star rate or something. Yeah, but boy, don't really

1489
01:07:33,119 --> 01:07:35,719
have an excuse for not playing Bouzellis a ton though

1490
01:07:35,719 --> 01:07:37,199
when you look at the makeup of their roster.

1491
01:07:37,639 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was gonna say for both of

1492
01:07:41,039 --> 01:07:44,440
those guys, they just feel like they're really not ready yet.

1493
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,400
Even if they did have the opportunity, which which they

1494
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,679
should right at least after the trade deadline, they should

1495
01:07:49,719 --> 01:07:52,239
both be starting and playing a ton. But like they

1496
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,159
both feel kind of a long ways with bizellis looked

1497
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:57,039
interesting though in some of those summer league games, Like

1498
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:58,280
I could see it.

1499
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: And what he does is predicated working on the ball,

1500
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,440
and I don't know that he's going to have like

1501
01:08:05,639 --> 01:08:07,320
t Jon's law if he got a shit ton of

1502
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,320
minutes and like the way he's been popping threes and

1503
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,639
just hustling down the floor if he was playing, that

1504
01:08:11,679 --> 01:08:15,719
would shock me. You know, we haven't mentioned so Ron

1505
01:08:15,719 --> 01:08:18,079
Holland we haven't mentioned That's not that he's just not

1506
01:08:18,119 --> 01:08:20,319
gonna have the opportunity. I think that's been pretty clearly

1507
01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:23,720
laid out. What def Castle? What is what is the

1508
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:24,960
pathway for him doing it?

1509
01:08:25,199 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 2: I just don't I don't know if the offensive game

1510
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,840
is like, is just anywhere close to good enough to

1511
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:33,560
get real consideration yet, you know what I mean? Like

1512
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:38,479
and really like I could see him just being marginalized

1513
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,359
because you brought in Chris Paul to join Trey Jones

1514
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:44,199
and like those guys are just gonna be on the ball,

1515
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:47,439
so Castle, who might like the way for Castle to

1516
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,479
do it would be he gets a ton of on

1517
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,199
ball reps and it like we leave this season thinking

1518
01:08:52,239 --> 01:08:54,119
like he actually is going to be the point guard

1519
01:08:54,119 --> 01:08:56,399
on this team going forward, right, I just don't know

1520
01:08:56,399 --> 01:08:58,199
if we're going to get a chance to like sort

1521
01:08:58,199 --> 01:08:59,439
of test that theory this season.

1522
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,199
Speaker 1: Would you care? I guess which award is next?

1523
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,079
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll guess. I think we're good there. I suspect

1524
01:09:04,119 --> 01:09:06,319
you went with most of the Ooh, I think you

1525
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:08,039
went most Improved next.

1526
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 1: Wow, you're four for four. We only have a fourth award.

1527
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,399
We have problems. Yeah, seventy minutes in.

1528
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,239
Speaker 2: Unfortunately this one is well, we don't need to make

1529
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:18,239
this one crazy long.

1530
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:20,239
Speaker 1: I don't think well, most improved players, So my turn

1531
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:23,880
to go first. Yeah, you're you're a poser. You do

1532
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,840
not have Jalen Williams's number one. I have JDub number one,

1533
01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:30,239
Wemby number two, and then Jalen Sugg's number three. And

1534
01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:33,920
this is an edification I did in our like hot

1535
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,079
Takes pouse. I said Jalen Suggs was gonna win it.

1536
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:38,319
And the more I thought about how I feel about

1537
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:42,159
him doing more on ball stuff in Orlando's offensive ecosystem,

1538
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,399
either one don't feel great about it or two really

1539
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:46,880
don't think it's gonna come to fruition in the regular season,

1540
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,119
so I backed off a little bit there, but I still,

1541
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,680
as you can tell, have plenty of Jaalen sugs stock.

1542
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I fully support Jada being number one. For you,

1543
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,439
it is the thinking that because I think I think

1544
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:01,960
it was a hot take, but I sort of believe

1545
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,199
it anyway, that he's going to be an All Star

1546
01:10:04,279 --> 01:10:06,800
this year or play at an All Star level. Is

1547
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,039
that a big enough jump from where he is for you?

1548
01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:11,039
Or are you thinking the jump's gonna be even bigger.

1549
01:10:11,279 --> 01:10:13,319
Speaker 1: I think the jump's gonna be bigger to where it's

1550
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:15,600
he's gonna average over twenty points a game? Or was

1551
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:17,520
he at nineteen point seven last year? So it's like

1552
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,159
he'll that'll tick up. But I think the two things.

1553
01:10:20,199 --> 01:10:21,920
I think people are gonna kind of start to understand

1554
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,319
his defensive value a little bit better this year after

1555
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:26,520
watching him for the first two seasons, And I really

1556
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:29,000
think the two things will be he'll continue to level

1557
01:10:29,039 --> 01:10:31,239
up the self creation and so let's say he's only

1558
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:33,920
only averaging twenty two points or something, So it's just

1559
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,279
like a what was he he was at nineteen last year?

1560
01:10:36,359 --> 01:10:39,319
Speaker 2: I think it was like nineteen it was nineteen four

1561
01:10:39,359 --> 01:10:42,159
and a half assists, four rebounds with like a sixty

1562
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,079
two percent true shooting or something stupid, Like I just

1563
01:10:45,119 --> 01:10:45,680
think there's.

1564
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: A chance he could be more efficient, and they're look,

1565
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:49,840
they were already doing this when Josh Giddy was there.

1566
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,560
It's like, you're going to run these units without Shay.

1567
01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:57,039
That's the default now. I mean, Isaia hart Sign's injured

1568
01:10:57,039 --> 01:11:00,119
to start the year, and that's not Alex Caruso's am I, Oh,

1569
01:11:00,199 --> 01:11:03,520
it's not Cason Wallace's m o. So like who else

1570
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,399
is running? Who's your backup? Like who's your not back

1571
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,279
up to shape? Like who is your backup primary playmaker?

1572
01:11:10,279 --> 01:11:13,479
Who's your second best playmaker on this team? Maybe it's Hartenstein,

1573
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,039
but like in terms of running this stuff and end,

1574
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:18,520
it's John Williams. Is it? Who am I missing?

1575
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, it's him for you, That's just I mean,

1576
01:11:21,159 --> 01:11:24,640
and that was I feel like we've gone so many

1577
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:26,680
laps on this, not you and I, but just like

1578
01:11:27,279 --> 01:11:30,239
he failed as a as a secondary creator in the postseason,

1579
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:33,079
and like that's what the thunder needs, Like all right,

1580
01:11:33,239 --> 01:11:36,119
give him an off season and like another year of

1581
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,079
like progress as he ages, and like I I I

1582
01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:43,239
never really understood the like the thunder need to go

1583
01:11:43,319 --> 01:11:45,760
out and get that other creators, Like, how about just

1584
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,520
give this guy who keeps getting better by leaps and

1585
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,000
bounds like one more summer to prove he can do it? Like,

1586
01:11:51,039 --> 01:11:53,680
I don't have any doubt that he's gonna be a

1587
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:58,319
phenomenal like secondary creator with SGA and like the second

1588
01:11:58,359 --> 01:12:00,159
unit that he runs will be good, Like I just

1589
01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:02,720
think so, I'm just making your case for you and

1590
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,079
making me not having him on my ballot even stupider.

1591
01:12:05,159 --> 01:12:08,560
Speaker 1: But well, I can see it the case we both

1592
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:13,800
had him on our ballots last year, did you pick him? Probably? Uh,

1593
01:12:14,039 --> 01:12:17,399
But like the case against him would be, can he

1594
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,640
make a jump that's meaningful enough relative to him working

1595
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:23,920
off such a high baseline right now? I think he

1596
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,159
can because look at the jump he made from year

1597
01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:28,039
one to year two. I'm not expecting the same size.

1598
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:30,800
But what, like, you know, kind of the self created

1599
01:12:31,319 --> 01:12:34,199
directionality part of his offensive game. When it came to scoring,

1600
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:35,760
it was, oh, is he going to be able to

1601
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,680
expand that? And then last year he's hitting step backs.

1602
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,840
There's like more directionality to his dribble drives. So I

1603
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:45,680
would expect him. Yeah, it's probably harder to continue that trajectory.

1604
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,319
But even if it's I don't want to say marginal,

1605
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:50,880
but it's this can be gradual improvement now, and if

1606
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:55,079
you're improving off of that super high baseline, I think

1607
01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:55,720
it's gonna.

1608
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,720
Speaker 2: Count for something. Yeah, and I think the narrative aspect

1609
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:00,520
of the voting could be there for him because the

1610
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,720
thunder will be so good and there'll be a lot

1611
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:04,600
of like, well we already know about SGA, Like who

1612
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:06,680
else can we focus on if we're like doing our

1613
01:13:07,079 --> 01:13:10,239
you know, our long forms or our report. Yeah, sure,

1614
01:13:10,359 --> 01:13:10,880
could be chat.

1615
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:11,279
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1616
01:13:11,319 --> 01:13:15,119
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he should be on here. So you

1617
01:13:15,159 --> 01:13:18,880
have Wemby second, I have Wemby first. I just we've

1618
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,800
already talked about him enough. It's like the numbers are

1619
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:24,880
gonna be insane. Supposedly supposedly put on twenty five pounds.

1620
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,640
I'm never ever, ever gonna believe that a human can

1621
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,319
put on that much weight in that little time. I

1622
01:13:29,319 --> 01:13:30,319
don't care how tall you are.

1623
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,119
Speaker 1: First of all, it's not safe. And even unless it's waterweight,

1624
01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:36,359
like I've done the game ten pounds in one day

1625
01:13:36,399 --> 01:13:39,199
thing when I've gone on like eating binges, but there's

1626
01:13:39,319 --> 01:13:42,399
no even if you were just juicing. There's like twenty

1627
01:13:42,399 --> 01:13:44,640
five pounds in two months. You can't do it.

1628
01:13:44,239 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 2: It's not possible. So miss me with all that stuff.

1629
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:52,159
Everybody that's reporting that I have another Jalen second, I

1630
01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:56,319
have Jalen Johnson second, and it's it's kind of a

1631
01:13:56,399 --> 01:14:01,600
two pronged thought process. One is massive improvement last year,

1632
01:14:02,119 --> 01:14:05,119
and I think it's like people will catch up to

1633
01:14:05,119 --> 01:14:07,079
that because nobody watched the Hawks, and he's gonna be

1634
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,840
even better this season, partly because de Jontay Murray is gone,

1635
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,319
and just the opportunities I think for him are really

1636
01:14:13,319 --> 01:14:16,039
gonna be there, whether that's as like a pick and

1637
01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:18,159
roll partner for Trey Young or as just the guy

1638
01:14:18,199 --> 01:14:21,079
you give the ball to as like a second you know,

1639
01:14:21,399 --> 01:14:23,439
we talked about secondary creators a lot for this award,

1640
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,000
but he might just be someone that you know, is

1641
01:14:26,279 --> 01:14:28,920
more than a transition finisher, more like he can pass.

1642
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,399
Like there there's a real path towards like twenty two

1643
01:14:33,359 --> 01:14:36,359
five and seven or something like like or maybe even

1644
01:14:36,359 --> 01:14:38,199
more more rebounds than that, but like twenty two and

1645
01:14:38,279 --> 01:14:40,640
five is totally plausible with a bunch of other stuff,

1646
01:14:41,159 --> 01:14:44,079
and that's gonna seem like a huge leap to everybody

1647
01:14:44,079 --> 01:14:46,199
that didn't really pay that much attention to him last year.

1648
01:14:47,039 --> 01:14:49,359
The injury, like you know, kind of kept him more

1649
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:51,600
under the radar for most improved than he probably should

1650
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,880
have been. And I have Jonathan kaminga third one to

1651
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:57,960
stay on brand, and two because I do think it

1652
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,279
does look to me from the preseason like he is

1653
01:15:02,359 --> 01:15:05,199
gonna let it rip from three when he's open, and

1654
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,760
that's just gonna juice the numbers. I have major questions

1655
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,520
about his defense. I just I don't know how he

1656
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,279
doesn't finish with more than twenty a game, and you

1657
01:15:14,319 --> 01:15:16,680
know he'll be efficient because he has He just gets

1658
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:19,199
so many dunks. He set the franchise record for dunks

1659
01:15:19,239 --> 01:15:25,840
last year. If like, if he actually improves defensively, then

1660
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,840
we're talking about like a real, like all star level player.

1661
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:30,560
But I just think the numbers will be there. It's

1662
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,279
gonna be more of like a cosmetic improvement because opportunity

1663
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,359
potentially a contract year if he doesn't get an extension,

1664
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:40,760
so that's always motivating. So I like him at number three.

1665
01:15:42,199 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's interesting. I almost would want to gravitate toward

1666
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,880
Pods a little bit more because I think he's gonna

1667
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:48,720
have to shoulder more playmaking. But I see you pay

1668
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:52,520
second year players though I broke that for Jada. I

1669
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,600
said that I was being stupid about it, and so

1670
01:15:55,199 --> 01:15:57,359
part people will say that is me being inconsistent. I

1671
01:15:57,399 --> 01:15:58,479
call that evolving.

1672
01:15:58,640 --> 01:15:59,439
Speaker 2: I call it growth.

1673
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:04,039
Speaker 1: You've grown, Uh, I have the Wenby stuff is tough

1674
01:16:04,079 --> 01:16:07,439
because Okay, if his numbers go up, does that counts enough? Like,

1675
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,439
what is the area of improvement where? Okay, he could

1676
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,560
I think if he plays more minutes and doesn't improve

1677
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,680
a damn thing, the counting stats might warrant him being

1678
01:16:16,279 --> 01:16:18,680
most improved player. If I was, I have him too,

1679
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:21,000
So I'm gonna I'm about to make the case. Is okay,

1680
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,000
he cuts down on the turnovers and there's like, okay,

1681
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,920
there's fewer. You know, he's taken like twenty three footers

1682
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:29,039
with nineteen seconds left on the shot clock, and he's

1683
01:16:29,239 --> 01:16:31,680
being more of a play finisher because he can now

1684
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,000
in certain instances. I don't like, what is where does

1685
01:16:34,039 --> 01:16:36,159
the improvement come on defense for him?

1686
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,560
Speaker 2: I mean make a little like, yeah, I know that's

1687
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:42,800
it has to be on offense somewhere. I think he

1688
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,239
could he could get his like if he shoots in

1689
01:16:45,319 --> 01:16:48,840
the mid to high thirties on decent volume from three,

1690
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,720
Like that's massive because I think his two point finishing

1691
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:55,439
is going to be substantially improved just because Chris Paul's there.

1692
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:59,039
He's gotten stronger to whatever degree you think that's real,

1693
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,960
he'll just be a better finisher. But like if the

1694
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,119
three point shooting becomes a real thing, you know, yeah.

1695
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,520
Speaker 1: They cause he shot way better on pull ups than

1696
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:09,720
catching shoot slash.

1697
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like not how it's supposed to work.

1698
01:17:12,119 --> 01:17:15,119
So it like that would be because we like for

1699
01:17:15,239 --> 01:17:18,399
Sugs for example, last year, like he actually gained a

1700
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,279
new skill, like he could shoot threes and he couldn't before.

1701
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:24,920
Like that's that's where if you have Wemby actually add

1702
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,560
a skill or two and the number spike, which they will,

1703
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:29,039
then it's like, well he should just win it.

1704
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be with you there with Sugs too. It's

1705
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:35,159
so what's the skill he could add that? Like it

1706
01:17:35,159 --> 01:17:36,840
feels like maybe last year could have been his best

1707
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:39,159
chance at winning it. I think if the assist numbers

1708
01:17:39,199 --> 01:17:40,880
come up and you look at it and it's, oh,

1709
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,600
like he ran a bunch more picking rolls and it

1710
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:46,000
improved the offense, like he scored not just more points

1711
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:48,239
per possession, but he's making better passes, Like can he

1712
01:17:48,319 --> 01:17:51,640
be more of the methodical, slowed down creator. I still

1713
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:53,960
think he can be. I'm just curious. There's been a

1714
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,439
lot of Anthony Black momentum there, and so I'm worried

1715
01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:58,800
that they're gonna get too far away from the Jael

1716
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,600
and Suggs experimentation. I'm also just worry that this basing

1717
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:03,319
still isn't going to be good enough for anyone there

1718
01:18:03,359 --> 01:18:05,439
to kind of make a leap. I still have him

1719
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:08,960
third because I'm a really big believer it. Like the

1720
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:10,600
more thing about them, like should he be third, Like

1721
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,680
his defensive like impact mic go down because of KCP

1722
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:15,399
being there a little bit. But I just think he

1723
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:19,880
is has shown that he can get better in wholesale arenas,

1724
01:18:20,079 --> 01:18:21,479
and I would expect that to continue.

1725
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just easier to bet on a guy that's

1726
01:18:23,279 --> 01:18:25,479
already sort of shown you that he can put the

1727
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:28,520
work in and just improve something that he couldn't do before.

1728
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:34,319
I have Jada just in my honorable mention. Obviously, Evan

1729
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:36,880
Mobley is someone I thought about just because I've obviously

1730
01:18:37,079 --> 01:18:39,600
picked him for you know, a way up in Defensive

1731
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:41,640
Player of the Year and all that stuff, like he

1732
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,279
has if what we've talked about it on another pod,

1733
01:18:44,359 --> 01:18:46,359
like what if he shoots five or six threes a

1734
01:18:46,399 --> 01:18:48,600
game and you know, hits him at a decent clip,

1735
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:50,680
there's your new skill. And he's just at an age

1736
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,840
where like an All Star jump seems totally on the table.

1737
01:18:54,279 --> 01:18:56,119
So I don't know if he can win it. I

1738
01:18:56,159 --> 01:18:57,439
don't know what he'd have to do to win it,

1739
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:01,000
considering he's already been like fairly highly decorated with like

1740
01:19:01,079 --> 01:19:03,520
DPOY consideration and stuff like that. I made an All

1741
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,359
Defensive team, so his bar is kind of high too.

1742
01:19:07,159 --> 01:19:09,479
But I could just see him taking a big step.

1743
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,000
It just feels like about the right time for him.

1744
01:19:12,039 --> 01:19:13,760
And it's not like it's like it's a mystery what

1745
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:15,840
he needs to improve at this point because we've been

1746
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:19,319
focusing on it for so long. So like, you know,

1747
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:24,560
if he's a way better facilitator, shooter, more decisive offensive player,

1748
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:26,560
then it's like, yeah, that's that's what we've been asking for.

1749
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:28,319
Then here you go, here's your reward.

1750
01:19:29,159 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 1: Could you see Scotty Barnes getting back into this discussion.

1751
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,159
But if he's averaging like twenty five and eight. Yeah.

1752
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:36,399
Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of the Jalen Johnson theory of

1753
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:38,279
like he was just in it last year and then

1754
01:19:38,319 --> 01:19:41,960
didn't play enough. I kind of feel like Barnes is

1755
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,520
already regarded as too good, you know what I mean,

1756
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:46,920
Like the numbers could get there. If it's twenty five

1757
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:48,319
and eight, then.

1758
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 1: When's the last time, like someone who's already made an

1759
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:53,399
All Star team one Most Improved Player. I'm sure it's happened,

1760
01:19:53,399 --> 01:19:54,600
but when's the last time? I mean?

1761
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:56,039
Speaker 2: Man, yeah, I don't know.

1762
01:19:56,359 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 1: Normally it's they're kind of associated with, oh, this player

1763
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,760
ascended into All Star territory.

1764
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, like well, Jalen Johnson last year is like definitely

1765
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,399
a type of like nothing and then oh my god,

1766
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,159
like not not all star level. That's one type. And

1767
01:20:12,159 --> 01:20:14,520
then the other one is you go from where Johnson

1768
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:17,119
was last year, for example, to an All Star thing.

1769
01:20:18,079 --> 01:20:20,279
I don't know there's been an All Star that's one.

1770
01:20:20,359 --> 01:20:23,279
I guarantee someone has won Most Improved after making an

1771
01:20:23,319 --> 01:20:25,439
All Star Game. But then you're talking about like an

1772
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:27,000
All NBA season.

1773
01:20:27,119 --> 01:20:29,159
Speaker 1: So the marketing made the All Star Game when he

1774
01:20:29,239 --> 01:20:31,079
won it, right, But that was his first All Star

1775
01:20:31,119 --> 01:20:33,880
appearance that year. So I'm talking about like being like,

1776
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:36,359
you know this, Remember the Steph case during his unanimous

1777
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,600
MVP season. I think in that case, I'm sure you

1778
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:41,640
did which I don't think it was an unreasonable one.

1779
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,760
People have made the case for Luca before. Even so

1780
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:46,800
some people make a Joelle and b case last year.

1781
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:47,800
I thought that was a thing.

1782
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:50,720
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just it's not wrong, but like that

1783
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,239
feels like what that That's just not what that award.

1784
01:20:53,319 --> 01:20:55,319
Speaker 1: Is meant to. But there's the school of thought where

1785
01:20:55,359 --> 01:20:58,479
it's it's harder to improve at a superstar level than

1786
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:02,600
it is a different baseline. Two other names that I

1787
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,079
kind of considered, and I'm still regret not putting one

1788
01:21:05,079 --> 01:21:07,479
of these in the top three. So there's Kay Cunningham,

1789
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,199
not the one I regret, but I could see it,

1790
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,279
and I really just LaMelo Ball could win this thing.

1791
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 2: Oh that's fun there. Well there's your I mean, there'sf

1792
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,279
Trey Murphy, someone I just want to throw out there.

1793
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,359
That's kind of more of an opportunity thing. I think

1794
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:24,720
it's hurt now, But like.

1795
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 1: You think brandon Ingram's backup could win.

1796
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 2: I think the guy that finally gets brandon Ingram traded.

1797
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:32,960
Who else are we not thinking of?

1798
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,279
Speaker 1: There's I mean there's probably a ton there's what would

1799
01:21:37,279 --> 01:21:40,319
the betting odds say? So we have do we name all? Oh?

1800
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:43,079
So Josh Getty's third fourth in betting odds?

1801
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just gonna be a numbers thing, right, Like,

1802
01:21:46,079 --> 01:21:48,319
I guess I could see it. I can understand why

1803
01:21:48,359 --> 01:21:49,000
he's up high.

1804
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:53,119
Speaker 1: So we mentioned of the top So that's four or five, six, seven,

1805
01:21:53,319 --> 01:21:56,279
eight of the top eight. We mentioned seven, So that

1806
01:21:56,319 --> 01:21:58,960
should make us feel good. Emmanuel quickly, is it ninth?

1807
01:22:00,039 --> 01:22:01,920
That's an interesting one. I don't see it.

1808
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,199
Speaker 2: I mean I can see Barrett having a better chance,

1809
01:22:04,239 --> 01:22:06,800
as like, based on what he showed for half a

1810
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:08,760
season last year, he looked like a different player. If

1811
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:10,920
he does that for a full year, that would be something.

1812
01:22:11,399 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: Kobe White's on the list again, I have trouble seeing

1813
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,840
that with Josh Giddy in the fold. Yeah, ooh, palla.

1814
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:19,279
Benkaro is a good one. But that's another case of oh,

1815
01:22:19,279 --> 01:22:21,000
he already made the All Star team. I'm not saying

1816
01:22:21,039 --> 01:22:22,640
he can't win it, but that's a like, what if

1817
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:26,079
he just has sixty three true shooting in his averaging

1818
01:22:26,359 --> 01:22:27,479
like twenty seven points a game.

1819
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,399
Speaker 2: Well, what if let's stick with the magic. What if

1820
01:22:30,399 --> 01:22:33,000
Franz just does all the same stuff he did last

1821
01:22:33,039 --> 01:22:35,600
year but shoots forty percent from three, Like he's gonna

1822
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:39,319
make an All Star team. Like, there's that's a jump, LaMelo.

1823
01:22:39,399 --> 01:22:42,520
Speaker 1: We talked about Joen Green is I what is that

1824
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:44,640
just he you know, he looks he looks pretty good

1825
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:47,239
in preseason, So is that does that count towards his case?

1826
01:22:48,399 --> 01:22:51,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I don't know. That's a hard one.

1827
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,239
Speaker 1: That's like the classic, oh, working off. I know he

1828
01:22:54,279 --> 01:22:57,359
finished the season better, but like, yeah, the classic oh,

1829
01:22:57,439 --> 01:22:59,039
this dude was so bad and.

1830
01:22:59,159 --> 01:23:01,520
Speaker 2: He won't have the lowest true shooting in the league,

1831
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:04,920
so it'll be like bottom ten and that'll be I mean.

1832
01:23:06,039 --> 01:23:08,680
Speaker 1: Sot Pods is on this list too, I could I

1833
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:13,880
could see it. Denny Avdiya, that's I think his best

1834
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:14,880
shot was last year.

1835
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's a year late. I feel like what

1836
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:20,399
about I mean, we've we've already mentioned a lot of

1837
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,279
second second year players. Well, either of the Thompson's, I

1838
01:23:23,319 --> 01:23:26,319
think like could just have a huge le.

1839
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 1: What's coming on with a star Thompson? Right, now, like

1840
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:30,640
is he even gonna be playing? Like what's going on

1841
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:30,960
with him?

1842
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, Like Ron Holland scares me there

1843
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,000
because they could just look at Ron Holland and say,

1844
01:23:35,039 --> 01:23:36,800
like you kind of do a lot of the Star

1845
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:40,880
Thompson stuff, except you have like a more projectable offensive future.

1846
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, just like Asar Thompson's been out and

1847
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:46,199
we just don't. It's just not like the clarification of

1848
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:48,399
you know, we know Amen Thompson. It seems like he's

1849
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,000
gonna play, but it doesn't seem like the blood clot

1850
01:23:51,039 --> 01:23:54,399
issue might be resolved, and so that would be my Oh,

1851
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:56,119
I didn't know that. I thought we were good to

1852
01:23:56,159 --> 01:23:59,880
go there, unless my information is outdated and you have

1853
01:24:00,239 --> 01:24:02,960
names from this Cam Thomas that also feels a year late.

1854
01:24:03,279 --> 01:24:07,159
I guess if he improves as a passer, uh Andy Simons,

1855
01:24:07,199 --> 01:24:08,239
that feels egregious.

1856
01:24:08,279 --> 01:24:10,239
Speaker 2: That's weird. Why would that hawks?

1857
01:24:10,319 --> 01:24:14,520
Speaker 1: Is semi interesting? Chet Holmgren And then the other two,

1858
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:16,520
the final two that are on the betting odds list,

1859
01:24:17,039 --> 01:24:21,279
Grady Dick and Derek Lively. The second I'm very like

1860
01:24:21,359 --> 01:24:24,079
what Derek Lively think has the easier path, But I'm

1861
01:24:24,079 --> 01:24:27,079
almost just thinking what does improve to look like like

1862
01:24:27,119 --> 01:24:29,279
he's not gonna have a chance to meaningfully expand his

1863
01:24:29,359 --> 01:24:30,960
offensive usage in Dallas.

1864
01:24:31,119 --> 01:24:33,560
Speaker 2: That's I mean, if he wins Defensive Player of the

1865
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:37,319
Year like like you think he is, then I could

1866
01:24:37,359 --> 01:24:40,319
see it. Grady Dick is just one. I don't I

1867
01:24:40,319 --> 01:24:43,880
don't know, Like that's he's got to shoot forty from

1868
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:47,039
three and average five assists, Like I guess like somebody's

1869
01:24:47,039 --> 01:24:48,840
gonna have to do it in that fifth starter spot

1870
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:49,600
for the Raptors.

1871
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:51,560
Speaker 1: See, if I was confident he was gonna be healthy,

1872
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:54,159
I will continue to throw Devin Massel into this. Oh

1873
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:56,680
you only haven't mentioned And I'm wondering if this is

1874
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:58,520
a there's too many guys in front of him in

1875
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:03,079
the offensive pecking order Keegan Murray. Yeah, like the defense.

1876
01:25:03,239 --> 01:25:05,960
If he plays continues to improve on defense, and just

1877
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,720
like the offensive numbers uptick as it'll probably be more

1878
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:10,319
of Okay, he never has the ball in his hands

1879
01:25:10,359 --> 01:25:12,720
based off who's around him, that's fine, that would not

1880
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:13,359
surprise me.

1881
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:16,039
Speaker 2: That's the hard part is just like where do the like,

1882
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:19,159
it's hard to imagine he averages more points than last year,

1883
01:25:19,319 --> 01:25:21,199
like just the just it's a you know, it's a

1884
01:25:21,279 --> 01:25:22,960
numbers game, like where do the shots come from?

1885
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:26,039
Speaker 1: Well, you know how it happens. They wind up trading

1886
01:25:26,159 --> 01:25:28,600
Monk to get in like feel a bigger need?

1887
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, possible anybody else. I think Keegan Murray's gonna be

1888
01:25:33,079 --> 01:25:36,359
a significantly improved player. I just don't think he can

1889
01:25:36,399 --> 01:25:37,560
win it. Just that's.

1890
01:25:39,079 --> 01:25:41,359
Speaker 1: The nicest thing I think you've ever said about the Kings.

1891
01:25:42,159 --> 01:25:44,560
Murray's not going to win this award, but I'm not

1892
01:25:45,319 --> 01:25:46,399
talking about him right now.

1893
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:49,680
Speaker 2: Have you seen, man, there's some uh the darn Fox stuff.

1894
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:51,960
I feel like people are too low on Fox right

1895
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,800
now too. Yeah, anyway, all right, that that covers most improved.

1896
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:59,479
I'm gonna continue my streak here that your next award

1897
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:00,479
is six Man End of the Year.

1898
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,039
Speaker 1: I feel like you're right. I hate you six Man

1899
01:26:04,079 --> 01:26:06,760
of the Year, your ballot grant. I cheated on this one.

1900
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:08,359
For anyone who's not watching, you're welcome.

1901
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:12,039
Speaker 2: That's I I approved it. I got Dante DiVincenzo one,

1902
01:26:12,479 --> 01:26:15,960
Malik Monk two, Duce McBride three.

1903
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,279
Speaker 1: Number three. Is you won my heart with that one.

1904
01:26:20,279 --> 01:26:21,840
I don't know if that's what you're trying to do, but.

1905
01:26:22,279 --> 01:26:25,199
Speaker 2: It's an opportunity thing, like who else is playing off

1906
01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:28,880
the bench year? Yeah, okay, well I'm not gonna put

1907
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:29,720
him on my ballot.

1908
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 1: I mean, like my problem with a Knicks player winning

1909
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:35,800
six Man of the Year is just like his Tim's

1910
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:39,079
gonna play like especially now the way the roster's built,

1911
01:26:39,119 --> 01:26:40,880
Like all the starters are going to average forty nine

1912
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:42,439
minutes a game, right, So yeah.

1913
01:26:42,279 --> 01:26:45,279
Speaker 2: Well so well Deuceduce went like a month average in

1914
01:26:45,359 --> 01:26:48,359
forty four or whatever it was. Yeah, he's he'll get

1915
01:26:48,399 --> 01:26:51,159
his He'll get his opportunity, so that'll juice his averages.

1916
01:26:51,159 --> 01:26:52,800
He just needs to not have to start because of

1917
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:54,319
injury for enough games to qualify.

1918
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:58,199
Speaker 1: You're I think, And oh, I was going to ask

1919
01:26:58,239 --> 01:27:03,000
you about your Dante pick. Yeah, I considered him. He's

1920
01:27:03,079 --> 01:27:05,079
number two in my ballots. Like we were part way

1921
01:27:06,039 --> 01:27:09,720
what in like, how do you separate him and the

1922
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:11,520
NAS read? Like, what is the case for him winning

1923
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:12,840
it over? NAS read again?

1924
01:27:13,319 --> 01:27:15,319
Speaker 2: Well, this is the problem is I had nas Read

1925
01:27:15,399 --> 01:27:17,760
on my ballot initially, and then we talked and like

1926
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:20,359
I just was like, I can't have two Timberwolves, So

1927
01:27:20,399 --> 01:27:24,000
I just picked Devincenzo. The thought for him is I

1928
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:29,000
think there's several ways for him to potentially have a

1929
01:27:29,079 --> 01:27:31,199
huge impact. One is just the high volume three point

1930
01:27:31,239 --> 01:27:34,159
shooting that showed up last year with the Knicks. Two

1931
01:27:34,359 --> 01:27:36,520
is like starting to look like the Wolves are going

1932
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:38,000
to put the ball in his hands a little bit

1933
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:41,159
more on second units now. Julius Randall probably will get

1934
01:27:41,199 --> 01:27:44,000
some time there too. The way things get staggered, like

1935
01:27:44,039 --> 01:27:47,840
maybe dolling him like you know, figures it out or

1936
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:50,039
is enough of an impact guy at some point where

1937
01:27:50,359 --> 01:27:52,239
you don't have Devincenzo on the ball because I don't

1938
01:27:52,279 --> 01:27:54,119
I don't love him there. I don't think that's really

1939
01:27:54,119 --> 01:27:58,479
playing to his biggest strengths. And then defensively, like he

1940
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,680
can be really disruptive and kind of give that second

1941
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:04,760
unit a real like you know, you have him out

1942
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,479
there with Alexander Walker, there's gonna be some chaos happening defensively,

1943
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,920
so like I can just just feels like he's positioned

1944
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:15,079
really well to a lot of paths to winning this.

1945
01:28:15,119 --> 01:28:17,279
And then Monk is just gonna be a great score

1946
01:28:17,319 --> 01:28:19,319
off the bench who closes just because that's that's what

1947
01:28:19,359 --> 01:28:19,720
he does.

1948
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:23,079
Speaker 1: He's not there's no way he closes, So they're gonna

1949
01:28:23,079 --> 01:28:25,079
close DeRozan watching from the bench.

1950
01:28:25,319 --> 01:28:27,199
Speaker 2: No, No, there's gotta be a way to get him

1951
01:28:27,239 --> 01:28:28,319
out there, so you just go.

1952
01:28:29,039 --> 01:28:31,600
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be Keegan Murray, DeMar Derozen Moleigue, Monk

1953
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:32,880
dearon Fox is a bonus.

1954
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, all right, I mean you got well, or

1955
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:40,159
they trade him and he goes, well, then I guess

1956
01:28:40,159 --> 01:28:44,039
if he gets traded, he's probably starting somewhere else. Well,

1957
01:28:44,039 --> 01:28:45,800
that's how I win it. He comes off the bench

1958
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,159
enough games for the Kings to qualify, they trade him

1959
01:28:48,159 --> 01:28:50,640
at the deadline. Yeah, average is like thirty four game

1960
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:54,520
down the stretch, and his numbers are undeniable. Yeah, I

1961
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:59,159
don't know. I just think, well, actually, no, I'm leaving

1962
01:28:59,159 --> 01:29:01,079
Monk there. I'm leaving him there. You to go to

1963
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:03,039
your ballot because you've got to Doozy at number one.

1964
01:29:03,399 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 1: So with Dante though very quickly. I My whole thing

1965
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:09,359
is is it feels like I don't know how often

1966
01:29:09,359 --> 01:29:12,239
they'll go to this. But doesn't it when you're talking

1967
01:29:12,239 --> 01:29:14,640
about him versus nos Reid, doesn't it feel like he

1968
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:17,319
might be more likely to close games right now? Because

1969
01:29:17,359 --> 01:29:19,520
what you could do is, yeah, you could put NOAs

1970
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:22,239
read in for Julius Randall, but you can't put nas

1971
01:29:22,279 --> 01:29:25,039
Read in for Mike Conley. You could do both, Like

1972
01:29:25,119 --> 01:29:27,279
Devincenzo could just go in for Julius Randall when you

1973
01:29:27,319 --> 01:29:29,880
close with Gobert is the loan big Or you could

1974
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:31,600
just put him in for Mike Conley and use Aunt

1975
01:29:32,039 --> 01:29:34,680
as your primary point guard because you have or you know,

1976
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:37,199
because Julius Randall's creation, Mike Commley is not as important

1977
01:29:37,239 --> 01:29:38,279
in theory there.

1978
01:29:38,279 --> 01:29:41,359
Speaker 2: Or you don't close with Gobert sometimes too, and de

1979
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:44,000
Vincenzo's out there with who have Maybe it's Randall at

1980
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:45,119
the five, maybe it's Read.

1981
01:29:46,239 --> 01:29:48,720
Speaker 1: At that point. Yeah, there's more I get. There are

1982
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:51,600
more ways it feels like for dv to close. Yeahan

1983
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:53,680
there is nos Reid at this point, and.

1984
01:29:54,079 --> 01:29:57,159
Speaker 2: Really, like, are we sure Conley is gonna hold up

1985
01:29:57,199 --> 01:30:00,359
for a full season? He might Devincenzo my just and

1986
01:30:00,399 --> 01:30:01,640
close a fair amount games.

1987
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 1: He's also just I know there was a lot of

1988
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:06,439
time spent on different things the Wolves could use, but

1989
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:08,960
like their wing shooting last year was like a very

1990
01:30:09,039 --> 01:30:13,359
real deficit. Yah, and he fills that better than Karl

1991
01:30:13,399 --> 01:30:15,439
Anthony Towns did, who was a big Julius Randall's a

1992
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,439
big and isn't the best shooter anyway, so I considered

1993
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:22,000
putting him number one. I almost kind of out of principle, though,

1994
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,000
I'm going with on Men Thompson. I kind of don't

1995
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,039
think he's gonna be coming off the bench by year's end.

1996
01:30:26,199 --> 01:30:29,279
This is a situation where something happened with a trade

1997
01:30:29,279 --> 01:30:31,520
with Shanggun or Jalen Green and that opens the door

1998
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:33,359
for him. But if he's gonna come off the bench

1999
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:36,960
for forty plus games this season, and Emiyodoka said they're

2000
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,079
already going to continue to roll with the starting lineup

2001
01:30:39,119 --> 01:30:41,920
from last year, which is bad news for Thompson and

2002
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:45,159
Shepherd probably, Like in terms of minutes, he is already

2003
01:30:45,199 --> 01:30:48,399
so dominant defensively, he showed that he has some value

2004
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:50,159
away from the ball offensive He can do things as

2005
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:52,640
a screener around the dunker spot, and they're still I

2006
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,439
don't know if they have the spacing or the I

2007
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:57,640
guess the touches to go around like this is someone

2008
01:30:57,640 --> 01:30:59,680
who came out of the draft as Oh, he's a

2009
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:02,439
six foot seven inch point guard, right, so there's more

2010
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:05,680
meat on the bone as a passer, and I think

2011
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:07,880
it would be a disservice to the Rockets and Thompson

2012
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:10,399
for them not to explore it more this year than

2013
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:14,039
they did last year. And to everyone's defense, they could

2014
01:31:14,079 --> 01:31:15,880
have explored it more last year, but he was injured

2015
01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:17,640
to start the season, and so that of course impacts

2016
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,119
how you're gonna run your team. That feels like a

2017
01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:23,279
very This feels like a justifiable pick, but also a

2018
01:31:23,359 --> 01:31:25,399
very high risk one on my end.

2019
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I he's got guys in front of him and

2020
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:31,800
that's the problem. But like his breadth of potential ways

2021
01:31:32,239 --> 01:31:37,000
to get into the lineup is is just like it's

2022
01:31:37,159 --> 01:31:40,000
significant enough to where it's like he's had he just

2023
01:31:40,079 --> 01:31:42,640
has to get in there. It's like for significant minutes,

2024
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,640
we like, well we need defense, all right, put him in.

2025
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:46,399
Oh we need a guy who can just finish everything

2026
01:31:46,399 --> 01:31:48,199
from the dunker spot. Put him in. Oh we need second,

2027
01:31:48,239 --> 01:31:50,359
we need a point guard. Okay, he can do like

2028
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,720
I mean, if if he gets any semblance of a jumper,

2029
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:56,560
then it's just like we're trading Jalen Green tomorrow right

2030
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:58,720
like just to we need him in the lineup. So

2031
01:31:59,119 --> 01:32:00,920
I like that pick. It's I didn't have him. I

2032
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:03,640
didn't think about him. I'm a little jealous. So give

2033
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:07,239
me your explain your I understand your number three spot

2034
01:32:07,279 --> 01:32:09,239
here because I struggled with this one.

2035
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. So by the way, I also I initially had

2036
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:14,079
Norman Powell here, but the Kauhi injury just makes it

2037
01:32:14,119 --> 01:32:16,239
that I'm assuming he's gonna start way too many games,

2038
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:16,800
I think.

2039
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 2: I think that's that's why I don't have him online,

2040
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:20,399
as I assume he's going to be a starter.

2041
01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:23,760
Speaker 1: So I have bow down Bogdanovic or Dyson Daniels because

2042
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:27,279
I assume like Bogdanovich is gonna be viewed as the starter.

2043
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:30,039
But you just kind of I could see Quinn Snyder

2044
01:32:30,119 --> 01:32:31,720
changing that up or not going to it at all

2045
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:34,199
and wanting that to come off the bench. I really also,

2046
01:32:34,359 --> 01:32:37,079
I'm probably sipping you know, I've always liked Dyson Daniels,

2047
01:32:37,119 --> 01:32:38,600
but I've always been pretty upront that I don't think

2048
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:41,840
he's gonna be a good shooter. In the preseason thirty

2049
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:44,159
eight percent on over five attempts per game from Deep

2050
01:32:44,319 --> 01:32:46,760
Grant and he is I can't remember who they were

2051
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:49,399
playing that I was watching, but he was letting him

2052
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:52,600
like he caught it twice, like he just let it rip,

2053
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:54,800
and so I'm not buying into it, but if he's

2054
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:58,239
gonna be and defenses aren't gonna defend it because Moilerlert,

2055
01:32:58,239 --> 01:33:00,800
they didn't defend those attempts that I'm talking about. So

2056
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:04,079
if he's gonna like if the floater still falls, if

2057
01:33:04,079 --> 01:33:06,960
he can hit or take like three three is a

2058
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:08,920
game and he shoots, you know, makes one of them,

2059
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:11,760
he shoots thirty three percent, and then the defensive potential there,

2060
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,119
he's gonna be asked to shoulder a big responsibility. I

2061
01:33:14,159 --> 01:33:16,439
also think he low key. There's a lot of different

2062
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:19,560
routes they could go here with secondary ball handlers, but

2063
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,720
like who is the backup floor general, especially if Bogdanovic

2064
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:24,800
is starting, Dyson Daniels is gonna get a lot of

2065
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:26,560
those reps. He got some of them in New Orleans,

2066
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:28,640
and so that was my thought processes. I think the

2067
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:31,199
opportunity will be there and that he'll also be good enough.

2068
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:34,600
Speaker 2: Who do you think should start of if you're trying

2069
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,880
to just be the best do the best thing for

2070
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:39,159
the Hawks? Should it be Daniels or Bogdanovic?

2071
01:33:40,119 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 1: Ooh, it should be Bogdanovic.

2072
01:33:43,039 --> 01:33:46,640
Speaker 2: Okay, I think I think I agree, just because you

2073
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:48,840
need somebody because Trey's gonna have the ball, so you

2074
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:51,800
need more off ball shooting value, right, and then Daniels

2075
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:54,119
can just be on the ball as a backup, right,

2076
01:33:54,239 --> 01:33:55,159
Is that like kind of what you're.

2077
01:33:55,239 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm not sure you're gonna have because if

2078
01:33:56,760 --> 01:33:58,359
you have let's say, if you have Daniels on the

2079
01:33:58,359 --> 01:34:01,680
court and then Compel and Johnson are on the court too,

2080
01:34:02,199 --> 01:34:04,119
it's okay, Well, you know Daniels isn't gonna be used

2081
01:34:04,119 --> 01:34:05,960
as like a screener or anything, and so that his

2082
01:34:06,079 --> 01:34:07,920
value is basically as a cutter. And are you gonna

2083
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:10,640
like you're already getting not too dicey, but like you

2084
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:13,439
want Jalen Johnson and Clint Capella, like you't want anyone

2085
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:16,520
to cannibalize, Like, oh, we need them to like occupy

2086
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:19,199
the same space as those dudes away from the ball.

2087
01:34:19,279 --> 01:34:22,079
So I think that makes the most sense. And now,

2088
01:34:22,119 --> 01:34:25,239
if you were really trying to build the best defense possible,

2089
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:27,039
you're also looking at through the lens of I know,

2090
01:34:27,079 --> 01:34:30,960
Bogdanovitch is bigger than people realize. You're probably starting a rookie.

2091
01:34:31,039 --> 01:34:33,359
I mean, isn't there a world though, where like reesa

2092
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:35,600
che could come off the bench and Daniels and Bogdanovic

2093
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:38,079
are starting. Does that make any sense? I probably don't

2094
01:34:38,079 --> 01:34:40,600
think so, because you still run into the off ball

2095
01:34:41,039 --> 01:34:44,720
like the on ball conundrums. Uh, but yeah, I don't

2096
01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:47,159
feel too confident this. But like, if Bogdanovich you told

2097
01:34:47,199 --> 01:34:48,479
me he was gonna come off the bench for like

2098
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:50,199
fifty games, I might just pick him.

2099
01:34:50,359 --> 01:34:53,159
Speaker 2: I would pick no if if he were guaranteed to

2100
01:34:53,239 --> 01:34:56,319
not be a starter, I would probably it would be

2101
01:34:56,319 --> 01:34:58,960
between him and Devincenzo for me, and I probably would

2102
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:00,359
put him first, just because I think he should have

2103
01:35:00,399 --> 01:35:03,199
won it last year like that. I think he was

2104
01:35:03,239 --> 01:35:07,319
the best guy off the bench consistently last season anyone else.

2105
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:09,560
Speaker 1: I can also go through the odds of six man

2106
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:11,239
of the Year or two to see if there's like.

2107
01:35:11,319 --> 01:35:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to make sure we don't I mean, so

2108
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:15,439
we said, I just talking about mine. I had Bugdanovich

2109
01:35:15,439 --> 01:35:17,640
as an honorable mention again, would have had him higher

2110
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:22,199
Nasried obviously. I think Buddy Healed looks like he's kind

2111
01:35:22,199 --> 01:35:23,840
of in the perfect spot to just come off the

2112
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:26,880
bench and be the guy that is expected to take

2113
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:32,000
almost every shot offensively. Again, we don't know he might start,

2114
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,800
who knows it's that that position is pretty fluid. But

2115
01:35:35,199 --> 01:35:37,119
I think he's going to have the pretty like the

2116
01:35:37,199 --> 01:35:40,720
standard six man case where you know who who has

2117
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:43,039
the highest points per game among guys that don't start,

2118
01:35:43,119 --> 01:35:45,520
Like he could definitely be in that conversation too.

2119
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:50,399
Speaker 1: There's also Carouse Lavert is high up on the betting round.

2120
01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:51,199
Speaker 2: Pretty standard.

2121
01:35:51,279 --> 01:35:55,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh CJ. McCollum sounds like he's gonna start, though,

2122
01:35:55,319 --> 01:35:58,000
so picking anyone from like because you can pick Trey Murphy.

2123
01:35:58,039 --> 01:35:59,640
But I really do think he's going to be a starter.

2124
01:36:00,359 --> 01:36:02,520
Speaker 2: I actually I think McCollum should come off the bench,

2125
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:04,520
but you just can't do it because of the salary

2126
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:08,039
and the experience, like right, because like they just there's

2127
01:36:08,079 --> 01:36:08,840
your second unit.

2128
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:13,720
Speaker 1: Also, if we're being super honest, Brandon Ingram should probably

2129
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:14,239
come off the bench.

2130
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 2: Well, well, you know what about the same theory, right,

2131
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:21,680
same theory of like he's not gonna shoot threes, so

2132
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:23,880
let's have him just run the offense as a as

2133
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:25,479
a against backup type of thing.

2134
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:28,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, Hamy Hawk as junior, that's a good one.

2135
01:36:28,359 --> 01:36:29,960
I do kind of feel like there's a chance he

2136
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,640
would start games. But if they want to go with

2137
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:36,840
Jovich or even Kolia Aware next to Bam instead Jordan Clarkson.

2138
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:39,000
I don't know if I could get there after last season,

2139
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:40,000
but that's.

2140
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:43,560
Speaker 2: Pretty standards, a pretty standard annual pick for this.

2141
01:36:44,119 --> 01:36:49,560
Speaker 1: Bobby portis standard, Benecmathrin, I don't know if I can

2142
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:50,079
get there.

2143
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:52,800
Speaker 2: That's the type of play, that's the type of player

2144
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:55,479
he is. I think, uh so, man.

2145
01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:58,279
Speaker 1: Both Alex Caruzo and Isaiah Hart and Stein are on here,

2146
01:36:58,319 --> 01:37:00,720
and it's just I need to know you could. First

2147
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:02,039
of all, you need to tell me which one is

2148
01:37:02,079 --> 01:37:04,520
gonna come off the bench for more games. And even

2149
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:07,520
then I'm just like you could talk me in to Isaiah,

2150
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,159
Joe or Case and there's gonna be too many. They've

2151
01:37:10,199 --> 01:37:12,119
too much depth for someone to win six Man of

2152
01:37:12,159 --> 01:37:13,600
the Year, as stupid as that sounds.

2153
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:16,319
Speaker 2: And if Caruso is starting, isn't dork coming off the

2154
01:37:16,359 --> 01:37:18,800
bench like You're not? You're not gonna start both of them?

2155
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:19,960
Are you? And maybe you are?

2156
01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:22,800
Speaker 1: I was thinking, is are we sure? Like? I know

2157
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:24,520
they started Isaiah Hart and Sign, but that was gonna

2158
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:26,279
be their permanent starting five. I guess they gave him

2159
01:37:26,279 --> 01:37:29,079
thirty million dollars a year. He's because couldn't. Couldn't you

2160
01:37:29,079 --> 01:37:30,680
make the case for I say, Hart and Stein if

2161
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:33,079
Alex Caruso's starting to be six man of the year.

2162
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:36,199
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well that's the thing. Yeah, that's another situation

2163
01:37:36,239 --> 01:37:39,159
where we just you could pick a couple guys are

2164
01:37:39,199 --> 01:37:39,640
so deep.

2165
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:43,000
Speaker 1: Josh Hart is on here, that's weird. Who are the

2166
01:37:43,079 --> 01:37:45,199
next starting instead of Josh Hart?

2167
01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:47,880
Speaker 2: Josh Hart, that's who's starting.

2168
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:51,079
Speaker 1: Peyton Pritchard getting nice little Celtics bump. Oh this is

2169
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:53,399
I don't know who is setting money on fire. But

2170
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:55,119
Russell Westbrook is off this list.

2171
01:37:56,159 --> 01:37:58,840
Speaker 2: That's just like a public bet.

2172
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:02,520
Speaker 1: Oh I hope soon as a dark horse would be interesting.

2173
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see it. I could see it. What

2174
01:38:08,079 --> 01:38:11,119
about there's gotta be a son like it doesn't doesn't

2175
01:38:11,159 --> 01:38:13,520
one of like Grayson Allen or Royce O'Neal need to

2176
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:15,800
be coming off the bench, either of those. I mean

2177
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:17,600
more so Grayson Allen because he could just come in

2178
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,479
and you know, shoot four from three.

2179
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:22,239
Speaker 1: That's a good one. And there, I mean, what is

2180
01:38:22,279 --> 01:38:25,760
the path to him starting? Is it they decided to

2181
01:38:26,399 --> 01:38:29,439
kd at the five where you're not going to start Tias.

2182
01:38:30,279 --> 01:38:32,039
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the only way it happens, right, Yeah,

2183
01:38:32,079 --> 01:38:34,119
so he's definitely coming off the bench right because it'll

2184
01:38:34,119 --> 01:38:36,079
be Tias Beale Booker KDS.

2185
01:38:36,079 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 1: He's not on here though. I find that interesting.

2186
01:38:38,079 --> 01:38:40,640
Speaker 2: There's your long shot bet, I think, I mean, I

2187
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:42,279
mean he maybe he starts too many because one of

2188
01:38:42,279 --> 01:38:43,279
those guys has hurt everything.

2189
01:38:43,399 --> 01:38:46,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, Spencer did when he's on here. But Grayson Allen

2190
01:38:46,279 --> 01:38:49,600
is not not a good bet there. G McConnell's on here.

2191
01:38:50,279 --> 01:38:53,479
But oh this is Trey Murphy's on here. Of course,

2192
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:56,319
this is like tough too, sort of like the Rockets.

2193
01:38:56,399 --> 01:38:59,359
This is why I was also hesitant to pick aman Thompson,

2194
01:38:59,880 --> 01:39:01,439
is that they might have too many options. But cam

2195
01:39:01,439 --> 01:39:04,239
Wittmore's on here, and then Reed Shepherd's coming off the

2196
01:39:04,239 --> 01:39:07,239
bench too. My Aman Thompson pick is looking shakier.

2197
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:11,640
Speaker 2: I mean, everything with the Rockets is just still. They

2198
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:14,159
have too many young guys that they're all just.

2199
01:39:14,079 --> 01:39:17,560
Speaker 1: Gonna at this point, they got all the picks, they

2200
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,800
have all this flexibility and like they're just stacked everywhere.

2201
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,359
They're not as good, but it's so how many minutes

2202
01:39:23,399 --> 01:39:27,840
are these guys gonna play? So I picked two Rockets

2203
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:30,560
to win awards so far this year. And they're both

2204
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:33,039
Rockets players that I'm concerned about how many minutes they're

2205
01:39:33,039 --> 01:39:33,840
gonna actually.

2206
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:38,079
Speaker 2: Love well, other than like Shingoon and I guess van Fleet, Like,

2207
01:39:38,119 --> 01:39:40,039
who are you not concerned about there? I guess.

2208
01:39:41,399 --> 01:39:42,640
Speaker 1: Is gonna play that? Yeah?

2209
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:44,239
Speaker 2: He sort of has to, right, And well, he's the

2210
01:39:44,279 --> 01:39:46,760
one guy that fits with whoever else from that group

2211
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:48,960
you put out there, just because of the shooting and

2212
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:50,079
the defensive versus.

2213
01:39:50,119 --> 01:39:51,880
Speaker 1: Playing at the five play at the four doesn't matter

2214
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:56,039
too So yeah, anybody else, that's all I go. Do

2215
01:39:56,039 --> 01:39:57,800
you think he winds up starting in too many games?

2216
01:39:57,960 --> 01:39:59,760
Speaker 2: He's another? Yeah, I think he's I think he's more

2217
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:01,439
likely to start then Healed. That's why I went with

2218
01:40:01,479 --> 01:40:02,560
Healed as an honorable mention.

2219
01:40:03,159 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 1: So I guess the Pods is starting. What about Melton?

2220
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:07,560
Speaker 2: Then Melton? If I was gonna say either of those,

2221
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:12,239
whichever of those three? So two of them, presumably of

2222
01:40:12,279 --> 01:40:14,600
those three should be considerations, because I think all of

2223
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:18,319
them are gonna play a lot. What about Dalton connect,

2224
01:40:19,279 --> 01:40:21,880
I mean, if he's gonna get twenty straight points every night, like,

2225
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:25,079
how does he's probably just he'll start, so they'll bench Lebron.

2226
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,039
Speaker 1: Anybody else. I think that just about covers it.

2227
01:40:29,279 --> 01:40:29,720
Speaker 2: That's good.

2228
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:32,279
Speaker 1: This this award is always tough. This year was especially

2229
01:40:32,319 --> 01:40:36,000
tough though, I think because the fluidity of starting fives

2230
01:40:36,039 --> 01:40:39,800
now is just gonna make this increasingly difficult. Yeah, what's next, Grant?

2231
01:40:40,079 --> 01:40:42,279
Speaker 2: Uh See, this is a hard one because there's a

2232
01:40:42,399 --> 01:40:45,880
there's a pivot point here. I'm I'm gonna guess you went.

2233
01:40:46,159 --> 01:40:48,760
I'm going out of order on my own board, and

2234
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:53,159
I think you went. Clutch player next year, Well, Coach

2235
01:40:53,159 --> 01:40:56,479
of the Year. Yeah, is this miner yours? I think

2236
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:57,880
it's you will it could be yours.

2237
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:03,079
Speaker 1: Okay. I have Chris Finch number one, Joe Mizzoula number two,

2238
01:41:03,199 --> 01:41:06,800
Kenny Atkinson number three, the classic. They're all kind of

2239
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:10,239
classic cases except for Finch, Like Missoula, Okay, this team

2240
01:41:10,319 --> 01:41:13,239
just won the title and now they're missing Chris tops porzingis.

2241
01:41:13,239 --> 01:41:15,680
If they continue to win fifty nine to sixty games, whatever,

2242
01:41:16,039 --> 01:41:18,399
how is he not in it? He just becomes revalidated

2243
01:41:18,439 --> 01:41:21,439
all over again. Kenny Atkinson is the classic case of

2244
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:24,479
remember Mike Brown with the Kings like come in overhaul

2245
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:26,760
what was already kind of a promising team. In the

2246
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:30,079
CAW's case, they were really good. Chris Finch is the

2247
01:41:30,079 --> 01:41:32,840
Wolves are already really good. People were skeptical of the

2248
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:35,760
Julius Randall fit, and he has He's been the one

2249
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:38,479
that's been most vocal about No, this was a basketball thing.

2250
01:41:38,479 --> 01:41:41,439
It wasn't just about finances. And so if they're better

2251
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:45,119
offensively and Julius Randall is fitting in, well, he's doing great.

2252
01:41:45,159 --> 01:41:48,199
Next to Gobert, next to Edwards, he's running some second units,

2253
01:41:48,199 --> 01:41:52,279
next to Dante DiVincenzo, maybe Dillingham especially. I mean, the

2254
01:41:52,279 --> 01:41:55,000
awards get named after the before the playoffs, that doesn't matter,

2255
01:41:55,199 --> 01:41:56,840
So I just have Chris Finch number one. I think

2256
01:41:56,840 --> 01:41:59,039
that this is a team. I'm interested to see how

2257
01:41:59,039 --> 01:42:01,399
he moves all these different peace around, Like even I

2258
01:42:01,399 --> 01:42:03,800
think one of Rob dilling Hammer, Terry Shannon's gonna end

2259
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:05,479
up having an impact for this team and he'll figure

2260
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:08,359
out ways to get them in there. So the Wolves

2261
01:42:08,359 --> 01:42:10,159
are already good. But I think this is a coach

2262
01:42:10,199 --> 01:42:13,439
where where we haven't necessarily seen him get too creative

2263
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:15,399
on the offensive end just yet. I now think he

2264
01:42:15,479 --> 01:42:18,039
kind of has the personnel to flex his muscles there.

2265
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that pick because it's like you can

2266
01:42:22,159 --> 01:42:26,199
you can envision the reason the Wolves are better is

2267
01:42:26,239 --> 01:42:29,720
because of like him proving he can win in a

2268
01:42:29,760 --> 01:42:32,560
different way, you know, like because the personnel has changed

2269
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:35,439
so much. It's like it'll be easy to attribute the

2270
01:42:35,479 --> 01:42:39,920
successful integration of Randall and Devincenzo and whatever to Finch,

2271
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:42,199
like being adaptable. And we definitely love that. You know,

2272
01:42:42,199 --> 01:42:44,520
if a coach can prove he like Thibodeau would be

2273
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:46,119
another one, it's like, oh he's different, you know, like

2274
01:42:46,119 --> 01:42:48,720
that it's not just the one trick thing. So I

2275
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:50,119
like that. I like that a lot. I didn't have

2276
01:42:50,159 --> 01:42:52,479
them on mine, but like, he's definitely got to be

2277
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:54,960
up there. So I went, we're the same two and

2278
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:59,239
three Missoula and Atkinson, same theory. I have Taylor Jenkins first,

2279
01:43:00,119 --> 01:43:02,640
I'm betting. I'm just putting a lot on the Grizzlies

2280
01:43:03,079 --> 01:43:06,039
just re establishing themselves as a fifty plus win team

2281
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:09,479
after the gap year. I think the defense will be

2282
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:12,239
really good, and we always attribute the defense to the coach,

2283
01:43:12,319 --> 01:43:15,600
so that that helps his case. And I can just imagine,

2284
01:43:16,319 --> 01:43:18,600
you know, going against me is the fact that the

2285
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:22,720
front office fired his entire support staff or entire but

2286
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,560
they didn't fire him, So maybe that means, like, you know,

2287
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,920
they really do trust him. That's a that's a hard

2288
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:31,680
hurdle for me to get over here. I just think

2289
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:33,640
the Grizzlies will be better. I think Jenkins had a

2290
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:35,880
lot of like, oh what a great young coach momentum

2291
01:43:36,079 --> 01:43:38,039
up until last year when his team just got hurt

2292
01:43:38,039 --> 01:43:40,720
and that's not his fault. So and if he like

2293
01:43:40,760 --> 01:43:43,680
gets some credit for ust re establishing a culture that

2294
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:46,159
kind of let John Morant get out of hand too

2295
01:43:46,159 --> 01:43:49,640
many times, and like the Grizzlies seem more professional and mature,

2296
01:43:50,199 --> 01:43:51,640
like that could be attributed to him too.

2297
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:54,119
Speaker 1: And I kind of like a little bit of you

2298
01:43:54,239 --> 01:43:55,960
started a fire and then put it out.

2299
01:43:55,760 --> 01:43:57,560
Speaker 2: Though oh yeah, totally. I'm just trying to I'm just

2300
01:43:57,600 --> 01:43:59,680
trying to imagine what the case for him would be.

2301
01:44:00,359 --> 01:44:02,760
And besides the fact that the Grizzlies might win like

2302
01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:06,119
thirty more games than they did last year, I think

2303
01:44:06,119 --> 01:44:08,239
it's funny neither of us has Mark dagnaut On here,

2304
01:44:08,319 --> 01:44:10,840
even though we like the thunder are going to win

2305
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:13,319
a trillion games and like everyone in Grease, he's a

2306
01:44:13,319 --> 01:44:13,800
great coach.

2307
01:44:14,039 --> 01:44:15,079
Speaker 1: How does he repeat?

2308
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:17,680
Speaker 2: He can't. That's the thing is, that's how stupid this

2309
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:18,800
award is, well, I guess if.

2310
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:20,760
Speaker 1: They won likes I mean, if they win seventy four,

2311
01:44:21,199 --> 01:44:23,680
how do you pick anybody else? Yeah?

2312
01:44:23,720 --> 01:44:26,760
Speaker 2: I know you don't. I just think that Okay, wait wait,

2313
01:44:27,239 --> 01:44:29,479
Eric s Ulster in the top three every year. Everyone

2314
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:31,479
agrees he's the best coach in the league, and he's

2315
01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:33,319
just like I didn't even think about him.

2316
01:44:34,039 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 1: Well I thought about him, So I'm not as cruel

2317
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:38,479
as you are. But that's like, how stupid is this?

2318
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 2: So I don't know why I'm getting.

2319
01:44:39,680 --> 01:44:41,880
Speaker 1: All right winds up on one of our ballots, the

2320
01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:44,840
end of season ballots. I bet you, oh, probably yeah,

2321
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:46,880
because I think he was on mine last year.

2322
01:44:48,119 --> 01:44:51,159
Speaker 2: Well, this award is very much like we just sort

2323
01:44:51,159 --> 01:44:54,199
of rule out the coaches that were already sure are great,

2324
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:56,560
and we just look for the ones that, like haven't

2325
01:44:56,600 --> 01:44:59,079
been acknowledged yet because look at we all three of

2326
01:44:59,119 --> 01:45:00,760
ours have no won it before.

2327
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 1: So what if the Oklahoma City thunder have the Defensive

2328
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:09,880
Player of the Year, the MVP, and the most improved

2329
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:13,600
player at that point? Did that dilute or strengthen Mark

2330
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:14,520
Degnolt's case.

2331
01:45:15,279 --> 01:45:17,399
Speaker 2: I think you probably should just give them the clean

2332
01:45:17,439 --> 01:45:19,119
sweep of like every award at that.

2333
01:45:19,039 --> 01:45:20,840
Speaker 1: Point, the sixth Man of the Year award.

2334
01:45:21,399 --> 01:45:23,079
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we made the case. There's like five

2335
01:45:23,119 --> 01:45:25,439
guys that could win it. For them, you definitely give them.

2336
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:27,960
You give Press the Executive of the Year if that happens.

2337
01:45:28,319 --> 01:45:31,279
Speaker 1: I did. I'm sorry I was pooh poohing over your

2338
01:45:31,359 --> 01:45:33,600
Jenkins pick. But I do see the vision there.

2339
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:35,720
Speaker 2: Oh. I mean I don't love it, to be honest,

2340
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:37,880
but I feel like I just went with my heart.

2341
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:39,479
I kind of thought that, you know, a couple of

2342
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:40,760
months ago, and I've stuck with it.

2343
01:45:41,079 --> 01:45:44,640
Speaker 1: His case last year, just from a defensive perspective, the

2344
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:46,279
fact that that team, when you look at all the

2345
01:45:46,279 --> 01:45:48,199
different lineups, they ended up running out and yes they

2346
01:45:48,239 --> 01:45:49,920
weren't trying to win at some point, like they still

2347
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:53,640
finished thirteenth in points allowed per possession. That he had

2348
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:54,800
a case last year for that.

2349
01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:58,000
Speaker 2: I feel like we don't do that enough. Like a

2350
01:45:58,039 --> 01:46:01,359
coach that just fucking survives should get should get like

2351
01:46:01,520 --> 01:46:02,880
a bunch of third place votes.

2352
01:46:03,399 --> 01:46:06,359
Speaker 1: He also looks like he can only coach a team

2353
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:08,760
named the Grizzlies, So feel how much how many points

2354
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:09,640
do we give him for that?

2355
01:46:10,159 --> 01:46:13,359
Speaker 2: A couple I mean, Beard we gets beard points, terrific beard,

2356
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:14,319
very uniform.

2357
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:17,439
Speaker 1: I haven't I did think about this one surprise surprise.

2358
01:46:18,279 --> 01:46:21,359
If this team is still is like top ten or

2359
01:46:21,399 --> 01:46:24,840
top seven in defense, does Tom Thibodeau have a case?

2360
01:46:25,239 --> 01:46:27,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's pretty high up in the odds,

2361
01:46:27,239 --> 01:46:31,640
I think too, just like his job. His job's a

2362
01:46:32,119 --> 01:46:34,439
I don't know. Is it harder this year? It's hard

2363
01:46:34,479 --> 01:46:38,479
to say, Like, it's definitely gonna be different, and the

2364
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:40,720
depth is a real issue, but less so for him

2365
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:42,560
because like he just plays everybody.

2366
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:44,840
Speaker 1: I will say he is more flexible than ever, but

2367
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:47,560
I think it's more difficult in the sense that this

2368
01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:52,159
Knicks team is just veering so far away from what

2369
01:46:52,359 --> 01:46:54,840
he usually values the most, like all of his core

2370
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:57,479
principles and he's again he's gotten more of just We've

2371
01:46:57,479 --> 01:46:59,520
seen him playunder sized lineups, we seen him use bigs

2372
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:02,880
in different ways. But like, this is just not when

2373
01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:04,960
you look at this team on paper, even after watching

2374
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:07,640
Tom Thibodeau the last couple of seasons, this is not

2375
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:09,600
a team that you would say, like, oh, Tom Thibodeaux built

2376
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:13,039
this team, like yeah, this is the Yeah, No, not

2377
01:47:13,159 --> 01:47:16,720
at all is there. JJ Reddick is the shock and

2378
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:19,319
awe candidate. Right, we're telling my god, the Lakers won

2379
01:47:19,359 --> 01:47:22,880
forty nine games. Oh yeah, I can.

2380
01:47:23,199 --> 01:47:25,399
Speaker 2: If they win forty nine games, then he's gonna be

2381
01:47:25,439 --> 01:47:29,119
on a lot of ballots. I would imagine, what about

2382
01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:32,479
uh Buttonholzer, Like if.

2383
01:47:32,359 --> 01:47:33,960
Speaker 1: Phoenix Windholder is a good one?

2384
01:47:34,039 --> 01:47:37,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, if Phoenix, I don't know. We keep saying if

2385
01:47:37,039 --> 01:47:39,159
they finished, if they're second in the West, say, because

2386
01:47:39,159 --> 01:47:40,800
we're just not going to put anyone over the Thunder.

2387
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:43,159
Speaker 1: Oh, he'll have won it, I think, right, like all

2388
01:47:43,319 --> 01:47:46,920
if any team finishes ahead of the Thunder, give it.

2389
01:47:47,239 --> 01:47:49,239
If you have first in the West and you're not okay, see,

2390
01:47:49,239 --> 01:47:53,720
I'm assuming not coach has one right again, Michael Malone,

2391
01:47:54,119 --> 01:47:57,439
who actively seems to hate like the front office he's

2392
01:47:57,439 --> 01:48:02,199
employed by, and well because like he actively seems to

2393
01:48:02,239 --> 01:48:04,159
hate a lot of his own players.

2394
01:48:05,119 --> 01:48:07,479
Speaker 2: It feels like there's a lot of tension in Denver.

2395
01:48:08,119 --> 01:48:12,000
But Butenholzer is one that like the expectation is that

2396
01:48:12,039 --> 01:48:16,239
he will just make Phoenix operate more like just optimize

2397
01:48:16,279 --> 01:48:18,319
them on both ends, and so like if they win

2398
01:48:18,359 --> 01:48:19,880
a bunch of games, I could see and we love

2399
01:48:19,920 --> 01:48:22,960
the first year coach bump like that always is helpful. Honestly,

2400
01:48:23,079 --> 01:48:27,279
what if Charles Lee and Charlotte Charlocke was forty to forty? Yeah,

2401
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:32,600
like make the playoffs for sure? Imodoka? Like if if

2402
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:35,880
the Rockets. You know, that's a hard job, right, We've

2403
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:38,600
talked a lot about like the lineup decisions are difficult,

2404
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:41,800
Like there's a weird set of expectations of like develop

2405
01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:44,840
these guys, but also like we're ready to win, like

2406
01:48:45,199 --> 01:48:48,840
the defense should be really good. I think I don't know.

2407
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:52,800
I think his his success will be like hard to

2408
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:55,399
come by, just because there's so many different aspects of

2409
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:58,319
the coaching job that like he'll have to succeed at.

2410
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:00,680
Speaker 1: This, you know what might be easier house even like

2411
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:02,680
what if the Hawks are just better than expected and

2412
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:06,239
like they're very Quinn snydery now what well?

2413
01:49:06,319 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he was. I mean I wonder if we

2414
01:49:08,840 --> 01:49:10,840
thought it. We must have mentioned him last year on

2415
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:13,079
the I'm sure because I had this using like Grant

2416
01:49:13,119 --> 01:49:16,319
he was my pick. Okay, I support it, like because

2417
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:19,279
first full year, like we can't do that half season.

2418
01:49:19,680 --> 01:49:21,600
We know what a Quinn Snyder team looks like, we

2419
01:49:21,640 --> 01:49:23,439
know what they value, we like those things. And then

2420
01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:27,520
Atlanta just didn't play that way at all on either end. Really, yeah,

2421
01:49:27,560 --> 01:49:29,680
I could. I could see that you can give it

2422
01:49:29,680 --> 01:49:30,359
to him a year late.

2423
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:33,760
Speaker 1: This might be a better question. Which coaches are you

2424
01:49:33,880 --> 01:49:37,479
not prepared to make even a tangential case for here?

2425
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:41,399
I'll listen Chauncey Billups. Probably he would be objectively the

2426
01:49:41,439 --> 01:49:44,520
most extent, Like if the Blazers are just in the playing.

2427
01:49:44,159 --> 01:49:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, like Brian Keith, like the Wizards aren't gonna

2428
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:49,279
like the same for.

2429
01:49:49,319 --> 01:49:51,840
Speaker 1: Jory Fernandez in Brooklyn. I think you probably have to

2430
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:54,119
throw Will Hardy in there, because if he's in this discussion,

2431
01:49:54,119 --> 01:50:01,039
he was probably fired. What about would any of the legacy,

2432
01:50:01,159 --> 01:50:03,560
Like would you be like, could you see a scenario

2433
01:50:03,560 --> 01:50:06,840
in which Steve Kerr, Greg Popovich or Rick Carlisle do

2434
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:07,239
the thing?

2435
01:50:07,680 --> 01:50:10,239
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say Popovitch is someone I would

2436
01:50:10,319 --> 01:50:13,920
rule out. Man Cinnamon has turned against him, like and

2437
01:50:14,279 --> 01:50:16,600
may be somewhat fair, like he's seventy five, Like the

2438
01:50:16,640 --> 01:50:19,840
fastball is not there, But like, I don't think. I

2439
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:22,560
just don't think that whatever success the Spurs have, I

2440
01:50:22,560 --> 01:50:24,960
don't think we'll be attributed to him.

2441
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:26,920
Speaker 1: Billy Donovan, I don't know.

2442
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:31,119
Speaker 2: I feel like Kurrs, just like he's been decorated enough

2443
01:50:31,159 --> 01:50:33,600
and I don't know what the Warriors would have to

2444
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:36,479
do to get him, because Coach of the Year always

2445
01:50:36,479 --> 01:50:39,960
feels like, again, let's acknowledge this guy hey like good

2446
01:50:40,279 --> 01:50:42,119
and if we've done it once already, then like we

2447
01:50:42,239 --> 01:50:44,920
kind of don't do it again or more hesitant to

2448
01:50:45,239 --> 01:50:47,520
so Carlisle I think falls under that umbrella too, of

2449
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,680
like he's regarded as a great coach, been around forever,

2450
01:50:51,159 --> 01:50:53,199
like we just we like the new the new stuff.

2451
01:50:53,239 --> 01:50:53,960
It seems like.

2452
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:56,880
Speaker 1: Who's more likely to be involved in this discussion, Billy

2453
01:50:56,880 --> 01:50:58,640
Donovan or JB. Bickerstaff.

2454
01:51:01,399 --> 01:51:04,159
Speaker 2: I just don't see any way Donovan is involved, so

2455
01:51:04,199 --> 01:51:05,319
I would go bicker Staff.

2456
01:51:06,119 --> 01:51:08,760
Speaker 1: What if the Bulls are just yo, I guess fans

2457
01:51:08,760 --> 01:51:10,479
will be mad, but like what if they're good? Like,

2458
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:11,800
what if they're good?

2459
01:51:12,439 --> 01:51:12,960
Speaker 2: What's good?

2460
01:51:13,039 --> 01:51:18,239
Speaker 1: Mean? Well? Josh Ginning winning most improved by apparently I.

2461
01:51:18,199 --> 01:51:21,520
Speaker 2: Could see bicker staph. I mean, like the bar bicker

2462
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:23,760
Staff has to clear is so low because of what

2463
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:27,680
happened last year that like if the Pistons win, If

2464
01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:32,239
the Pistons win thirty four games, that's a twenty win improvement. Uh,

2465
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:36,840
like they and like I could. I don't know that

2466
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:41,439
he deserve it, but like I could, I could see

2467
01:51:41,439 --> 01:51:45,319
bicker Staff getting a little bit of of of buzz potentially.

2468
01:51:46,720 --> 01:51:48,720
Speaker 1: Do you think I guess if the Magic hap an

2469
01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:51,039
above average offense, Jamal Mosley's probably just in there.

2470
01:51:51,079 --> 01:51:53,439
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I've actually thought about Mosley just on the

2471
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:55,640
you know, he there's a little bit of buzz for

2472
01:51:55,680 --> 01:51:57,439
him last year. I don't remember what he finished, but

2473
01:51:57,479 --> 01:51:58,439
I think he.

2474
01:51:58,119 --> 01:52:00,479
Speaker 1: Really he's just merited for me because this team needs

2475
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:02,479
to spend more actual time in transition.

2476
01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:05,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's fair in.

2477
01:52:05,319 --> 01:52:09,800
Speaker 1: Two dark dark dark horses dark a dark Horse, dark

2478
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:13,960
O Ryakovic in Toronto, just everyone says they're rebuilding, Yaka

2479
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:16,279
pertl said they're not attacking the championship in one of

2480
01:52:16,319 --> 01:52:18,680
the best Media Day quotes of all time. What if

2481
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:20,520
they're just good? I don't think they will be, But

2482
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:23,560
that's one And then also this is more based on

2483
01:52:23,800 --> 01:52:25,640
we know his team is going to be banged up,

2484
01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:28,000
his best players probably not playing him back to backs,

2485
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:30,439
but Nick Nurse and also he had the cachet of

2486
01:52:30,479 --> 01:52:32,880
look at how good Joellemead was when healthy under him

2487
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:33,840
last year giving him.

2488
01:52:34,119 --> 01:52:35,840
Speaker 2: I like that one. I'm trying to think, like, I

2489
01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:38,640
don't think Mike Brown is going to get any consideration.

2490
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:42,680
Darc Rivers know Tylu another good coach. Just know that.

2491
01:52:44,199 --> 01:52:47,560
Speaker 1: This is like, isn't this kind of like a Tylu

2492
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:48,600
fever dream? Right now?

2493
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:51,199
Speaker 2: Has he won it before? I don't think he has.

2494
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:55,119
Speaker 1: No, I'll look very quickly, but I don't think he has.

2495
01:52:55,399 --> 01:52:57,359
But it's he's always been like, oh, look at what

2496
01:52:57,399 --> 01:53:00,279
he did with this shorthanded team where the Calves coming

2497
01:53:00,319 --> 01:53:01,199
back from a deficit.

2498
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:09,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, potentially, I'm looking up Tyler right now. Yeah, did

2499
01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:12,640
he he won the twenty sixteen SPI Award for Best Coach?

2500
01:53:13,119 --> 01:53:16,439
Speaker 1: Nice job. Yeah, no he's not. He's not on here,

2501
01:53:16,479 --> 01:53:19,159
so I could actually see him. I could see like

2502
01:53:19,239 --> 01:53:21,159
if you just don't have Kawhi for most of the year,

2503
01:53:21,199 --> 01:53:23,199
Paul George is gone and the Clippers are still floating

2504
01:53:23,239 --> 01:53:24,680
around like forty five wins.

2505
01:53:26,119 --> 01:53:30,520
Speaker 2: I mean I could if, yes, if all of the

2506
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:36,279
guys we've already mentioned somehow don't succeed like between like Missoula, Atkinson,

2507
01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:40,520
Finch like there, I mean Moseley Mosley is I'm really

2508
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:42,239
warming to the thought of him. We probably should have

2509
01:53:42,279 --> 01:53:44,680
mentioned him more. I just I can't see it. Yeah,

2510
01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:46,439
I don't know, and Kurr is not going to win it.

2511
01:53:46,479 --> 01:53:50,520
I'm just going like left to right on the map. Reddick,

2512
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:51,319
we've talked about.

2513
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:53,520
Speaker 1: Is there anyone we have at this point? We haven't

2514
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:57,159
mentioned anyone in their faces? Who's the first Green win it?

2515
01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:00,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could win it maybe if he's win fifty.

2516
01:54:00,520 --> 01:54:02,680
Speaker 1: I think him or Billups are probably the coaches that

2517
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:03,319
are most likely to.

2518
01:54:03,359 --> 01:54:05,720
Speaker 2: Be fired, right to Willie Green or Billups.

2519
01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, just because the Pelicans at the point where okay,

2520
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:10,800
we can't trade brand ingram apparently, what are you changing

2521
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:11,760
if not the game? Right?

2522
01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, the last lever to pull type of theory.

2523
01:54:14,399 --> 01:54:17,760
I like that theory a lot. My my guy Taylor

2524
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:20,479
Jenkins might get fired. I don't know, you fire the

2525
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:22,920
whole staff like it's that feels like a message.

2526
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:24,279
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's true.

2527
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:26,399
Speaker 2: I don't know. Shall we move on? I don't know

2528
01:54:26,399 --> 01:54:30,159
what's a pick next, because you know, well, you should

2529
01:54:30,199 --> 01:54:32,359
go to Executive of the Year, but I think I

2530
01:54:32,399 --> 01:54:37,000
think you're gonna go collect player. Oh really stumbling to

2531
01:54:37,039 --> 01:54:37,600
the finish here.

2532
01:54:37,720 --> 01:54:39,960
Speaker 1: Executive of the Year is all yours. I love I

2533
01:54:40,039 --> 01:54:43,720
love your number three because of the reasoning. I know

2534
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:47,600
you're about to give oh right, I was.

2535
01:54:47,600 --> 01:54:50,760
Speaker 2: Like, what was my reasoning? So Darryl Mory one, just

2536
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:53,359
like there was no one on this roster other than

2537
01:54:53,479 --> 01:54:56,159
Joel Embiid and Ricky Counsel. The fourth I think was

2538
01:54:56,199 --> 01:54:59,319
the other guy, and they're you know, a good bet

2539
01:54:59,359 --> 01:55:01,000
to finish top four or in the in the in

2540
01:55:01,039 --> 01:55:04,640
the East. Like the Tyrese Maxi thing. Uh, just getting

2541
01:55:04,680 --> 01:55:07,479
him to wait in an environment where like you had

2542
01:55:07,479 --> 01:55:11,520
a former star player saying you're a liar? Is that

2543
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:12,640
a what isn't that a.

2544
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:14,760
Speaker 1: Last season thing? Getting Tyress Maxi to wait?

2545
01:55:15,239 --> 01:55:18,640
Speaker 2: I mean he signed him this offseason, so he didn't

2546
01:55:18,680 --> 01:55:22,920
let him walk. Yeah, I guess maybe that it's kind

2547
01:55:22,920 --> 01:55:25,359
of a bridge from last season to this season. Case. Okay,

2548
01:55:25,359 --> 01:55:26,079
he got Paul George.

2549
01:55:26,079 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 1: How about that?

2550
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:28,239
Speaker 2: And then he did well on a bunch of minimums

2551
01:55:28,399 --> 01:55:31,199
and in terms of like a grand plan like executing

2552
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:35,439
this this bold kind of not kind of like total

2553
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:40,000
overhaul of the roster, just you know, the sixers are

2554
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:43,119
completely different and better. And that's he did a bunch

2555
01:55:43,159 --> 01:55:47,760
of tricky machinations to make that work. Sam Prestin next,

2556
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:50,319
just he's gonna be there forever. Do you go get

2557
01:55:50,319 --> 01:55:52,960
Alex Caruso and doesn't cost you a draft pick. You

2558
01:55:53,079 --> 01:55:57,479
get off of Zach Josh Giddy and don't have to

2559
01:55:57,600 --> 01:55:59,600
think about paying him an extension that you don't want

2560
01:55:59,600 --> 01:56:01,880
to doesn't cost anything to do that. You go get

2561
01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:04,680
Isaiah Hartenstein, like just you know this.

2562
01:56:04,760 --> 01:56:09,399
Speaker 1: Stroke of I also thought long term book management brilliance.

2563
01:56:09,479 --> 01:56:11,880
What they did with Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins too.

2564
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:16,119
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, just super reasonable, long enough extensions

2565
01:56:16,119 --> 01:56:20,000
where they're basically underpaid now and are huge trade assets.

2566
01:56:20,159 --> 01:56:23,439
It's just, yeah, kind of perfect. I have I have

2567
01:56:23,520 --> 01:56:26,399
Rafael Stone third because he did not hit well. This

2568
01:56:26,479 --> 01:56:29,079
might be totally stale, but as of today, he has

2569
01:56:29,119 --> 01:56:31,039
not given extensions to anybody.

2570
01:56:32,119 --> 01:56:34,680
Speaker 1: Nobody shepherds that.

2571
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:37,319
Speaker 2: And they draft to read Shepherd. Good for him.

2572
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:40,039
Speaker 1: This is a team, though, I would say more so

2573
01:56:40,119 --> 01:56:42,680
than some others. I mean, Maury's case could definitely be

2574
01:56:42,720 --> 01:56:44,560
furthered as the season goal because we know they have

2575
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:46,439
first round picks to trade, and they did the kJ

2576
01:56:46,520 --> 01:56:48,079
Martin deal. I don't know if you mentioned that, like

2577
01:56:48,479 --> 01:56:50,800
that's built a trade. The Rockets could make a trade

2578
01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:53,079
mid season two that would also shift.

2579
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:59,399
Speaker 2: His Yeah, so I regret not putting Leon Rose here

2580
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:01,760
and one of these spots, but I but you took

2581
01:57:01,800 --> 01:57:03,520
care of that for me because like you can talk

2582
01:57:03,560 --> 01:57:08,159
about talk about like the tiny nuances of and it's

2583
01:57:08,199 --> 01:57:10,319
not all him, but like all the hoops they had

2584
01:57:10,319 --> 01:57:12,640
to jump through to pull off these traits is like insane.

2585
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:14,760
So like maybe that's just a full front office award.

2586
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:17,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean brock Osweller like the cat, like the

2587
01:57:17,279 --> 01:57:19,479
salary cap guru for them. But I will say I

2588
01:57:19,520 --> 01:57:21,439
have Leon Rose third, I've pressed the second, which the

2589
01:57:21,479 --> 01:57:23,720
other thing we didn't mention with the thunder I'm getting

2590
01:57:24,039 --> 01:57:26,600
did they really do this again? Vibes with Dylan Jones

2591
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:30,079
and like they also think the whole nicole the whole

2592
01:57:30,159 --> 01:57:32,920
nicolo topic thing too. Where do you remember what my

2593
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:35,880
comp was for him before, like before the draft when

2594
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:36,920
we did that exercise.

2595
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:39,960
Speaker 2: You've asked me this before and I couldn't remember, and

2596
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:41,680
then you gave it to me and I still don't remember.

2597
01:57:41,800 --> 01:57:44,680
Speaker 1: It's Shake Gilders. Alexander was like my highest end comp

2598
01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:45,239
for him, and.

2599
01:57:45,239 --> 01:57:47,399
Speaker 2: So that's by the way, I don't remember the guy.

2600
01:57:47,560 --> 01:57:49,640
Speaker 1: Yes, he's injured, but he just gets to learn from

2601
01:57:49,680 --> 01:57:53,920
Shake Gilder. Alexander I factored into my preseason case anyway.

2602
01:57:54,039 --> 01:57:56,439
But with Leon Rose, I doubt Morey won I everything

2603
01:57:56,439 --> 01:57:59,159
you outlined, it's just I don't know at this point.

2604
01:57:59,159 --> 01:58:00,800
It's what needs to happen for him not to win

2605
01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:03,319
the award. Paul George doesn't play this season, probably I don't.

2606
01:58:03,359 --> 01:58:06,239
Speaker 2: And even then it's like, uh, it's worthwhile gamble, you know.

2607
01:58:06,319 --> 01:58:08,520
Speaker 1: It's I guess if em beads two injured atoll, should

2608
01:58:08,520 --> 01:58:11,479
they've given him the extension, And it's yeah, they had

2609
01:58:11,479 --> 01:58:16,000
no choice. With Rose, I do have them third because

2610
01:58:16,039 --> 01:58:19,199
I don't they didn't make They were creative in how

2611
01:58:19,199 --> 01:58:21,479
they specifically with the Towns deal and like the way

2612
01:58:21,520 --> 01:58:23,319
they're using these players that were on the roster at

2613
01:58:23,359 --> 01:58:24,880
the end of the season to sign and trade them.

2614
01:58:25,079 --> 01:58:27,680
They did some of that with the nets and McHale bridges,

2615
01:58:27,960 --> 01:58:31,319
but you didn't like, you know, he kept og Anobi,

2616
01:58:31,399 --> 01:58:33,359
but like none of this was team friendly. The most

2617
01:58:33,359 --> 01:58:35,199
team friendly thing and this matters, by the ways, the

2618
01:58:35,239 --> 01:58:38,479
Jalen Bruns an extension, right, so that's a big deal.

2619
01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:41,359
But this does sort of feel like everything else like

2620
01:58:41,399 --> 01:58:44,119
that Jalen bruns An extension will carry it, but like

2621
01:58:44,199 --> 01:58:47,279
everything else is not that it's debatable, but it has

2622
01:58:47,279 --> 01:58:50,920
the potential to be net neutral or worse because like

2623
01:58:50,960 --> 01:58:52,680
if you look at those trades, like if we're sitting

2624
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:54,920
here doing this at the end of the season, my

2625
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:56,920
framing here, this is my long wing away of saying,

2626
01:58:56,960 --> 01:58:59,840
is he's kind of probably gonna either finish second or

2627
01:59:00,039 --> 01:59:01,720
in the award or just not even come close to

2628
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:04,199
making it on the ballot type deal because the knicks

2629
01:59:04,399 --> 01:59:06,359
something fell off the like the wheels fell off the

2630
01:59:06,399 --> 01:59:09,720
wagon there. But it's it's an interesting case because they

2631
01:59:09,720 --> 01:59:12,439
were creative and there's the jail on Brunson extension. But

2632
01:59:12,479 --> 01:59:14,600
when you look at what they gave up for mchel Bridges,

2633
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:18,159
for Karl Anthony Towns, how much they paid og Han Andobi, Yeah,

2634
01:59:18,159 --> 01:59:22,119
those aren't one hundred percent unequivocal wins, are there. They're

2635
01:59:22,119 --> 01:59:24,600
not even for a lot of people you already traded

2636
01:59:24,600 --> 01:59:26,319
for OG's Okay, you have to pay them. But I

2637
01:59:26,319 --> 01:59:28,720
think a lot of people who are even in support

2638
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:31,239
of the move, including myself, would recognize that these aren't

2639
01:59:31,279 --> 01:59:33,520
just moves that were no brainers that you would make

2640
01:59:33,840 --> 01:59:35,960
and so his case is either to me, gonna grow

2641
01:59:36,479 --> 01:59:38,760
or diminish as the games start to play.

2642
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:41,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean just thinking back,

2643
01:59:41,199 --> 01:59:44,840
like with both of the really big moves, the Bridges

2644
01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:48,760
trade and the Cat move, It's like we had real

2645
01:59:48,800 --> 01:59:51,159
conversations and I think it's still kind of unresolved as

2646
01:59:51,199 --> 01:59:54,920
like was that worth it? Like was were those actual

2647
01:59:55,039 --> 01:59:58,079
positive value plays? Like I don't know, So I do

2648
01:59:58,199 --> 02:00:01,600
think part of that, like lee into you got to

2649
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:04,000
credit the boldness, like you got to credit it, like

2650
02:00:04,079 --> 02:00:06,479
we're going for it. What are these you know, the

2651
02:00:06,920 --> 02:00:09,439
fuck them picks like all like that. That that is

2652
02:00:09,479 --> 02:00:14,079
like laudable, I think, especially we're a little we're close

2653
02:00:14,119 --> 02:00:15,720
to pass the point of having to mention this, but

2654
02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:18,119
just like how poorly the Knicks were run for so

2655
02:00:18,319 --> 02:00:21,119
long and now it's just like, oh no, we're we're

2656
02:00:21,119 --> 02:00:23,920
getting within like fourteen cents of the cut you know,

2657
02:00:23,960 --> 02:00:26,039
of the various like aprons and cutoffs, and we have

2658
02:00:26,680 --> 02:00:29,760
done all this creative shit like signing guys from partisan belgrade,

2659
02:00:29,920 --> 02:00:32,600
and you know it's just like that's like, okay, we're

2660
02:00:32,600 --> 02:00:35,039
in the weeds now, Like the Knicks are at the

2661
02:00:35,119 --> 02:00:38,039
cutting edge of like they're not. They're not dupes anymore,

2662
02:00:38,199 --> 02:00:40,840
you know, like they're paying the high prices, but that's

2663
02:00:40,960 --> 02:00:43,159
just part of it. They're getting all the small stuff

2664
02:00:43,199 --> 02:00:44,439
like pretty hammered out.

2665
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:47,199
Speaker 1: And this wouldn't factor into my case right now, but

2666
02:00:47,319 --> 02:00:50,199
based off what I've seen in preseason, there's also a

2667
02:00:50,319 --> 02:00:53,840
chance that the selections of Pacomb Dottier or more likely

2668
02:00:53,920 --> 02:00:56,720
Tyler Kohleik end up helping his case rather than being

2669
02:00:56,720 --> 02:00:58,840
I think most of the time. Oh, this team took

2670
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:01,039
Tyler Kolk in the second whatever, that's not gonna help

2671
02:01:01,079 --> 02:01:02,760
or hurt your case. It seems like there might be

2672
02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:06,039
an actual chance that he is their primary backup playmaker

2673
02:01:06,039 --> 02:01:07,960
because they view Deuce as more of an off guard

2674
02:01:08,000 --> 02:01:11,199
wing type. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, anybody else that should be

2675
02:01:11,399 --> 02:01:13,640
like this was just like who was the I think

2676
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:17,439
we covered the four people that should be there, Like

2677
02:01:17,479 --> 02:01:20,640
do you give? Like how do you wait? Something like

2678
02:01:20,680 --> 02:01:23,640
Boston with Brad Stevens, where they just like kept they

2679
02:01:23,720 --> 02:01:26,199
kept paying their guys and most of that was extensions too,

2680
02:01:26,239 --> 02:01:28,199
So it's not something that kicks in this season.

2681
02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't know, Like I don't

2682
02:01:30,720 --> 02:01:33,439
know if just just extensions is quite enough. It's like

2683
02:01:33,439 --> 02:01:36,520
they actually physically couldn't do anything else. So I don't

2684
02:01:36,560 --> 02:01:40,520
know how we demerit him for that. Who else did really? Well?

2685
02:01:40,560 --> 02:01:42,359
Speaker 1: Do you think I will tell you who doesn't belong

2686
02:01:42,399 --> 02:01:45,479
on this list? That would be our tourist Karnosovas does

2687
02:01:45,520 --> 02:01:46,720
not belong on this list?

2688
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:48,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, not a fan there.

2689
02:01:49,319 --> 02:01:53,079
Speaker 1: What about what about Montu McNair.

2690
02:01:53,640 --> 02:01:58,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, because you know, getting getting de Rosen who

2691
02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:02,600
we were like actually obligated to say talent upgrade, got

2692
02:02:02,600 --> 02:02:05,000
to do that and the price is right? I mean maybe,

2693
02:02:05,359 --> 02:02:07,680
don't What about the Spurs just keep like horning in

2694
02:02:07,720 --> 02:02:09,800
on deals and getting extra picks without having to do

2695
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:12,600
anything like That's so I don't even know who to

2696
02:02:12,640 --> 02:02:16,439
say there is? Is it still like rc Buford? Is

2697
02:02:16,479 --> 02:02:19,079
that who were crediting? Is it Popovich? I can't remember

2698
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:21,720
who actually we credit with their for their front office moves,

2699
02:02:21,720 --> 02:02:25,159
but like they it's all marginal stuff really and like.

2700
02:02:25,319 --> 02:02:28,560
Speaker 1: I guess, by the way, that's Brian right, Brian right? Yeah? Sorry?

2701
02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:34,239
Speaker 2: Trading away the number eight pick like that's that's kind

2702
02:02:34,239 --> 02:02:37,119
of that's ballsy for a team in their position and

2703
02:02:37,279 --> 02:02:39,880
taking Castle at four, getting the first what is it

2704
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:42,920
a swap from the Kings and the DeRozan deal that

2705
02:02:43,239 --> 02:02:45,800
the that you know, the Bulls just could have gotten

2706
02:02:46,000 --> 02:02:46,640
they wanted to.

2707
02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:47,920
Speaker 1: Uh Chicago.

2708
02:02:48,239 --> 02:02:51,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think who else.

2709
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:54,960
Speaker 1: Those Yeah, the Spurs one should definitely, like Brian Wright

2710
02:02:55,039 --> 02:02:57,760
should definitely be up there. What about Minnesota, Like we're

2711
02:02:57,800 --> 02:02:59,600
mentioning the Knicks and I know they only made that

2712
02:02:59,600 --> 02:03:02,119
one move, but there's like there's just a chance that

2713
02:03:02,159 --> 02:03:05,239
this team is I think they're better for the regular season,

2714
02:03:05,279 --> 02:03:07,319
and I have questions about the playoffs, but like there's

2715
02:03:07,359 --> 02:03:09,840
a the Rob Dillingham swing was bold, and I don't know,

2716
02:03:10,399 --> 02:03:12,319
I don't know. I do think there's a chance that

2717
02:03:13,159 --> 02:03:17,159
people will use that against their case, like when we're leading, Like,

2718
02:03:17,359 --> 02:03:19,800
excuse me Tim Connelly's case leading into that, just because

2719
02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:21,880
I don't think he's gonna play a whole lot anymore,

2720
02:03:21,920 --> 02:03:24,640
and if he has not necessarily looked great, but like

2721
02:03:24,680 --> 02:03:28,039
if the Julius Randall Dante de Vincenzo additions pan out.

2722
02:03:28,399 --> 02:03:30,920
Speaker 2: That's if that if that goes really well, that's like

2723
02:03:30,960 --> 02:03:33,880
a master stroke to get off that contract.

2724
02:03:34,279 --> 02:03:37,520
Speaker 1: Was that the riskiest move of the summer?

2725
02:03:39,720 --> 02:03:41,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm trying I don't I'm struggling to think

2726
02:03:41,880 --> 02:03:44,039
what I mean. Well, it was in the summer. I

2727
02:03:44,039 --> 02:03:46,239
was gonna say, Kawhi Leonard's extension turns out, but that

2728
02:03:46,279 --> 02:03:47,039
was the last.

2729
02:03:46,920 --> 02:03:48,640
Speaker 1: Something with the Knicks. I guess you could say that

2730
02:03:48,680 --> 02:03:51,520
they're saddling them, but like theirs looked at more in

2731
02:03:51,640 --> 02:03:54,199
some I think the McHale Bridges trade and the Karl

2732
02:03:54,199 --> 02:03:57,439
Anthony Towns trade. But like the single biggest or most

2733
02:03:57,439 --> 02:04:01,520
critical decision to break up a core of a Western

2734
02:04:01,520 --> 02:04:02,760
Conference finalist.

2735
02:04:03,439 --> 02:04:06,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a bit. I mean in terms of like

2736
02:04:06,520 --> 02:04:10,520
right now stakes, that's massive. What about like just the

2737
02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:14,600
risky moves like giving Brooklyn back that twenty five first

2738
02:04:14,880 --> 02:04:18,760
when the number one overall pick, Like that's that's pretty risky.

2739
02:04:18,800 --> 02:04:19,439
By the Rockets.

2740
02:04:19,479 --> 02:04:21,479
Speaker 1: The only we haven't mentioned, I don't know. I mean,

2741
02:04:21,479 --> 02:04:24,079
there's a chance they could he could crack the top three,

2742
02:04:24,079 --> 02:04:28,520
but Nico Harrison and Dallas, the Rhymes deal getting Klay

2743
02:04:28,520 --> 02:04:31,359
Thompson and then also with Naji Marshall, we both thought

2744
02:04:31,359 --> 02:04:34,000
that was a home run signing sure that honestly, of

2745
02:04:34,039 --> 02:04:35,880
all the names we mentioned, that's the one that I

2746
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:38,680
could see easiest, like not just climbing into the top three,

2747
02:04:38,720 --> 02:04:41,079
but if we're talking in upset, like if if Dallas

2748
02:04:41,079 --> 02:04:42,840
is always on the best team in the West.

2749
02:04:42,880 --> 02:04:45,880
Speaker 2: Right, and like Grimes and Marshall and Clay all have

2750
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:48,199
really good seasons like that you just point directly to

2751
02:04:48,239 --> 02:04:50,439
the offseason of like they got all those guys and

2752
02:04:50,439 --> 02:04:53,680
getting getting Grimes back in that trade with I.

2753
02:04:54,279 --> 02:04:56,560
Speaker 1: Might bump Leon Rose right now for him because of that.

2754
02:04:56,880 --> 02:04:58,720
They was just you give up Tim Hardaway Junior and

2755
02:04:58,760 --> 02:05:00,520
seconds and get back went and right.

2756
02:05:00,840 --> 02:05:03,439
Speaker 2: That's insane. That's It's like we're talking about Quentin Grimes,

2757
02:05:03,439 --> 02:05:05,279
like he's a five time All Star, but like you

2758
02:05:05,319 --> 02:05:08,039
shouldn't get a guy who might really help you in

2759
02:05:08,079 --> 02:05:09,560
a salary dump, Like that's not.

2760
02:05:10,279 --> 02:05:12,239
Speaker 1: Whether it was just you needed to do that salary

2761
02:05:12,279 --> 02:05:13,960
dump to do everything else that you write.

2762
02:05:14,159 --> 02:05:16,039
Speaker 2: Amazing. Yeah, that's a good one, grant.

2763
02:05:16,119 --> 02:05:16,960
Speaker 1: You know what's next.

2764
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:20,399
Speaker 2: Let's see Coach of the Year, Assistant Coach of the Year.

2765
02:05:22,279 --> 02:05:25,399
Let's see best Concessions. Oh, clutch player. That's right, the hardest,

2766
02:05:25,560 --> 02:05:29,319
the hardest award to pick by a factor of ten, because.

2767
02:05:29,159 --> 02:05:32,319
Speaker 1: They have in the dark. I went sgat one Luca

2768
02:05:32,319 --> 02:05:34,680
at two and like I'd like to get a little

2769
02:05:34,680 --> 02:05:37,399
creative at three with this, but like Tyrese, Maxi, Joe

2770
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:39,399
Beid's gonna miss a bunch of time, Paul George will

2771
02:05:39,399 --> 02:05:41,560
probably miss some time, and also E Beads talked about

2772
02:05:41,560 --> 02:05:44,439
deferring more to Max, deferring more to Maxie excuse me.

2773
02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:46,359
I could see him just being like their go to

2774
02:05:46,479 --> 02:05:47,319
crunch time weapon.

2775
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:50,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean he's gonna start with the ball,

2776
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:53,079
so that helps. Like whatever he does with it from

2777
02:05:53,079 --> 02:05:56,159
then is up to him. I have Luca one Bruns

2778
02:05:56,199 --> 02:06:00,199
into Jokic three, and it's just like it's just I mean,

2779
02:06:00,319 --> 02:06:02,600
probably both of us should have had DeMar DeRozan on here,

2780
02:06:02,680 --> 02:06:04,720
just because he actually does seem to be the only

2781
02:06:04,760 --> 02:06:07,319
guy that's always on, you know, the top of the

2782
02:06:07,319 --> 02:06:07,920
clutch stuff.

2783
02:06:07,960 --> 02:06:11,159
Speaker 1: Well, I thought about him, but him and Fox being

2784
02:06:11,199 --> 02:06:13,640
on the same team, we talk about cannibalization a lot

2785
02:06:13,720 --> 02:06:14,800
when it comes to consideration.

2786
02:06:15,399 --> 02:06:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that, I mean, if he if he's a

2787
02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:20,279
Clutch Player of the Year this year, then like clutch

2788
02:06:20,319 --> 02:06:25,039
actually is real, like the real thing. I just went

2789
02:06:25,079 --> 02:06:27,640
with the guys that I'm very confident will be the

2790
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:29,520
like be all end all at the end of games

2791
02:06:29,520 --> 02:06:31,000
for their teams. So it's just like I don't know.

2792
02:06:31,039 --> 02:06:34,520
It's not a sophisticated approach to it. I mean we

2793
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:37,119
could have. Is there anybody else you like gave thought

2794
02:06:37,159 --> 02:06:38,880
to and in so far as you give a lot

2795
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:40,079
of thoughts to this award.

2796
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:43,119
Speaker 1: Well, I gave Jokic some thought I did. So this

2797
02:06:43,199 --> 02:06:45,640
is Galaxy bringing it too much. I had wondered if

2798
02:06:46,039 --> 02:06:49,319
Sga doesn't belong on here because the thunder is gonna

2799
02:06:49,439 --> 02:06:51,239
not play enough crunch time minutes.

2800
02:06:51,119 --> 02:06:53,840
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the sample will be too. He'll play three

2801
02:06:53,880 --> 02:06:56,840
clutch games all year, right to shoot one hundred percent

2802
02:06:56,880 --> 02:06:57,359
in the clutch.

2803
02:06:57,399 --> 02:06:59,520
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why I can't bring myself to pick anyone

2804
02:06:59,520 --> 02:07:01,520
from the celt in part because of that reason too.

2805
02:07:01,560 --> 02:07:04,439
Speaker 2: That's a great point. Yeah, yeah, that you do have

2806
02:07:04,479 --> 02:07:06,159
to pick a team that you think is like gonna

2807
02:07:06,159 --> 02:07:09,359
be okay, basically put.

2808
02:07:09,840 --> 02:07:13,479
Speaker 1: Notable player X into that. Like the answers, Probably, Yes,

2809
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:15,920
if they're gonna have the ball one of their top

2810
02:07:15,920 --> 02:07:18,920
two options down the stretch, Yes, they could. Joelle and

2811
02:07:18,960 --> 02:07:22,720
Be could theoretically win this. Lebron a d could theoretically.

2812
02:07:22,159 --> 02:07:25,359
Speaker 2: Win this, Yes, like uh, Devin Booker during.

2813
02:07:25,399 --> 02:07:28,439
Speaker 1: Like is it James Harden or Kevin Porter Junior could theoretic,

2814
02:07:28,439 --> 02:07:30,399
like who's the number two option in Los Angeles?

2815
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:33,079
Speaker 2: I mean, Norman Powell is gonna win, is not gonna

2816
02:07:33,079 --> 02:07:34,640
win six man, but he'll win. Clutch player.

2817
02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:38,000
Speaker 1: I would love to see, though, like someone from a

2818
02:07:38,039 --> 02:07:40,119
bad team, like we need not a bad team, but

2819
02:07:40,159 --> 02:07:42,279
like not a great Like if Charlotte just has an

2820
02:07:42,279 --> 02:07:45,760
excellent crunch time record and Brandon Miller was Incredila La

2821
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:48,279
mellow Ball was incredible, that would be just like kind

2822
02:07:48,279 --> 02:07:49,760
of you root, I'd like to see one of those

2823
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:51,760
types of teams win the playing, not the play, and

2824
02:07:51,840 --> 02:07:54,600
the the mid season tournament, the NBA Cup, Like just

2825
02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:57,720
Portland winning the NBA Cup would be objectively hysterical.

2826
02:07:57,800 --> 02:08:00,720
Speaker 2: That'd be great. Give me, like, gimme cam Thomas just

2827
02:08:00,720 --> 02:08:03,520
just like the nets are in very few clutch games,

2828
02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:05,359
but if they are close, like you know, he's going

2829
02:08:05,439 --> 02:08:06,920
to be shooting and he just you know, would have

2830
02:08:06,920 --> 02:08:07,239
to make it.

2831
02:08:07,319 --> 02:08:10,760
Speaker 1: He gets traded if he's winning them too many clutch games, right.

2832
02:08:10,920 --> 02:08:13,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, he just gets benched down the stretch after

2833
02:08:13,399 --> 02:08:16,520
he's like seventeen of thirty one in the game to

2834
02:08:16,560 --> 02:08:17,399
that point.

2835
02:08:18,520 --> 02:08:21,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's too efficient. Now we can't do it. Yeah,

2836
02:08:21,960 --> 02:08:23,439
this is just like, I don't even know if we

2837
02:08:23,600 --> 02:08:26,319
like predicting. This is so is so tough. If one

2838
02:08:26,319 --> 02:08:29,159
of these what do we have five different players on here,

2839
02:08:29,920 --> 02:08:31,479
one of these five different players win it, I think

2840
02:08:31,479 --> 02:08:32,760
we deserve a pat on the back.

2841
02:08:32,640 --> 02:08:33,880
Speaker 2: Because I would be super impressed.

2842
02:08:33,960 --> 02:08:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very much a throw it at the wall

2843
02:08:35,600 --> 02:08:37,520
and see if it sticks. M with that, Do you

2844
02:08:37,560 --> 02:08:39,279
have anything else or you you ready to take us

2845
02:08:39,279 --> 02:08:39,600
out of here?

2846
02:08:39,600 --> 02:08:41,199
Speaker 2: I think that's going to do it. That we you know,

2847
02:08:41,279 --> 02:08:44,079
we almost got under two hours for what's a eight awards,

2848
02:08:44,119 --> 02:08:48,279
so uh pretty good. Just make sure that as you

2849
02:08:48,359 --> 02:08:50,720
go gamble that you do not take any of our

2850
02:08:50,760 --> 02:08:54,279
advice and uh just maybe like do the complete opposite

2851
02:08:54,560 --> 02:08:56,840
other than MVP. I feel pretty good about our MVP picks.

2852
02:08:57,760 --> 02:08:59,840
Speaker 1: We have separate MVP picks. So what is your advice

2853
02:08:59,880 --> 02:09:00,520
here right now?

2854
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,800
Speaker 2: Either just bet on Luca and Jokic. Yeah, the top two.

2855
02:09:05,720 --> 02:09:07,439
I don't know if you can actually win money doing that.

2856
02:09:07,479 --> 02:09:07,920
Probably not.

2857
02:09:08,680 --> 02:09:10,880
Speaker 1: You can hedge stuff like that, like that's yeah, but like.

2858
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:12,840
Speaker 2: Well, the the what's your return going to be? It's

2859
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:14,520
like not even gonna be worth it because their odds

2860
02:09:14,520 --> 02:09:16,560
are so have such like good odds.

2861
02:09:16,720 --> 02:09:18,239
Speaker 1: Oh dude, I haven't even looked at their odds. I

2862
02:09:18,239 --> 02:09:21,119
would assume they're both like at least a plus three hundred.

2863
02:09:20,840 --> 02:09:22,800
Speaker 2: In which I don't know. I assume they're one too.

2864
02:09:22,840 --> 02:09:25,640
You could probably you know what, just still don't do

2865
02:09:25,720 --> 02:09:26,760
anything worth suggesting.

2866
02:09:26,840 --> 02:09:30,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so, but as of right now the

2867
02:09:30,159 --> 02:09:32,720
payouts on them. Could you bet on both? Yeah, because

2868
02:09:32,760 --> 02:09:35,199
Lucas so if you threw one hundred on both, you

2869
02:09:35,199 --> 02:09:37,520
would you would win money. So Luca is the odds

2870
02:09:37,520 --> 02:09:39,680
on favorite at plus three fifty. Okay, so you throw

2871
02:09:39,720 --> 02:09:42,039
one hundred, so you could you could do that. I'm

2872
02:09:42,039 --> 02:09:44,479
not recommending it, but in theory you could do that.

2873
02:09:45,880 --> 02:09:48,880
Speaker 2: Maybe it's the Wemby dpoy one that is just he's

2874
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:51,560
so far and away the favorite that there's like no point.

2875
02:09:51,560 --> 02:09:54,720
Speaker 1: He's not He's like it not even paying out even money, right.

2876
02:09:54,720 --> 02:09:57,520
Speaker 2: Right, I think he's a minus and he's minus something.

2877
02:09:58,319 --> 02:09:59,840
Speaker 1: At that point. Don't bet on Webby even if you

2878
02:09:59,840 --> 02:10:00,960
think he's gonna take a stab in there.

2879
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:02,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no that why yeah, why would you like,

2880
02:10:02,720 --> 02:10:06,079
You're just it's not it's not worth it. Again, don't

2881
02:10:06,119 --> 02:10:09,039
take our gambling advice. We don't know what we're talking about.

2882
02:10:10,359 --> 02:10:13,640
Maybe you do, I don't everybody. Thanks for listening, thanks

2883
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:16,680
for watching. Let us know what your picks might be.

2884
02:10:16,800 --> 02:10:19,039
Let us know in the comments on YouTube. Join our

2885
02:10:19,039 --> 02:10:21,399
discord if you want to weigh in links for that

2886
02:10:21,479 --> 02:10:24,800
YouTube and podcast description. Wherever you're getting these podcasts consuming,

2887
02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:28,359
then please rate, review, subscribe, lots of comments on the videos.

2888
02:10:28,359 --> 02:10:30,239
That's always very helpful to us. Tell your friends, tell

2889
02:10:30,239 --> 02:10:32,640
your enemy, spread word of mouth. That's that's just as helpful.

2890
02:10:33,079 --> 02:10:36,119
Help us get our subs up. Make sure you are subscribed.

2891
02:10:36,159 --> 02:10:38,199
That's very helpful, especially on YouTube. I think it's going

2892
02:10:38,279 --> 02:10:40,680
to cover it. Thanks for checking out our awards. We're

2893
02:10:40,680 --> 02:10:42,920
getting close, Dan, like a couple of days, the games

2894
02:10:42,960 --> 02:10:43,920
is gonna start to count.

2895
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:47,399
Speaker 1: So excited not to watch them. I'm excited.

2896
02:10:47,399 --> 02:10:51,039
Speaker 2: I'm excited to hear you pretend like you've ever watched

2897
02:10:51,039 --> 02:10:53,319
the game in your life. That's that's what I'm moving

2898
02:10:53,319 --> 02:10:56,640
forward to this season. Shouts Frank nol Kina apologics Jay

2899
02:10:56,680 --> 02:10:57,000
that one