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Start having the 21 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.880 most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com. 22 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.119 Nope, We're just necessary daily revoid over Everyboy Lost Its 23 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.759 Conditions eighteen plus. 24 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:12.000 You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking 25 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.120 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:21.280 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK. 27 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:25.959 Every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 28 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.159 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 29 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.680 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 30 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:50.040 Forgotten California Murders nineteen fifteen to nineteen sixty eight chronicles 31 00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:54.079 homicides that happened so long ago they've been forgotten even 32 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:57.799 by the families of the killers and the victims. Their 33 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.640 crimes are no less shocking than the murders that have 34 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:05.239 had books and films made about them. The book that 35 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:09.960 we're featuring this evening is Forgotten California Murders nineteen fifteen 36 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.439 to nineteen sixty eight, with my special guest, journalist and 37 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.680 author David Colchick. Welcome to the program. Welcome back to 38 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:19.960 the program, and thank you so much for this interview. 39 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:21.199 David Colchick. 40 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:23.039 It's great to be here. 41 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.080 Dan, thank you so much. Once again, you've done it. 42 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:33.439 Forgotten California Murders. Some wild, wild stories here. Let's start 43 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:37.520 off because we just take the time to just examine 44 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.840 a few of these and explore somewhat in depth some 45 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:44.680 of these wild stories that you've included in this forgotten 46 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.479 California murders. 47 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:50.240 As we spoke before, let's talk about. 48 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:54.759 Dirty wealthy scoundrel September ninth, nineteen thirty three, Santa Cruz. 49 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:59.080 As I mentioned, it just seems to be almost all 50 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:03.560 of the kinds of things, the sensational things that we 51 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:07.280 would find in a current case. Yet nineteen thirty three 52 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:10.759 tell us about dirty wealthy scoundrel. 53 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:18.439 This case was really amazing just because of the level 54 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:22.120 of people that were in high society in the San 55 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:27.919 Francisco area. This guy named Francis Joseph Morgan Grace. He 56 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.879 was the nephew of the guy who co founded Grace 57 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:37.919 Steamship Lines in the Panama Male Steamship Company. So you know, 58 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:45.360 if your own steamships, especially back then, you were pretty wealthy. Yeah. 59 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.800 He was raised in a lifestyle rivaled European royalty. He 60 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:51.960 was a member of all the clubs you could be 61 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:56.280 members of in San Francisco, the Yacht Club, Berlin, Game 62 00:03:56.360 --> 00:04:01.199 Country Club, Santa Cruz, golf and country club in the 63 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:06.680 Bohemian Club. He was given a career as an executive 64 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:11.439 in the family business. Retired at forty two, and because 65 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:15.479 of the company he was involved in, him and his 66 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:19.720 family got to travel anywhere in the world that they 67 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:24.759 wanted to in luxury on their ships. He married the 68 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:32.439 woman he married. She was from a famous California rich family. 69 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:38.000 She's a descendant of David Calton, who was not only 70 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:41.519 was he a Native American murderer, but he was also 71 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:46.600 the attorney for the Big Four railroad bear A Shunter, Stanford, Hopkins, 72 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:52.639 and Crocker. So you're talking megabucks. So they had a son, 73 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.040 you know, one kid. He had married him off in 74 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:03.480 nineteen thirty. The idle rich retired at forty two, and 75 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:10.040 they had a state in Santa Cruz. And now where 76 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.800 the area where their estate was is all houses and 77 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:20.600 apartments and maybe a block from the ocean right in 78 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:24.079 Santa Cruz. I mean, you couldn't be more in the 79 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:28.240 middle of Santa Cruz than this place they called They 80 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:34.120 called their place the cat the Cabins, and their other 81 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.439 place they lived at was the penthouse of the Alexander 82 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:43.160 Hamilton Hotel. In San Francisco. It's still there. So you know, 83 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.600 these are you know, the richest people in San Francisco. 84 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.800 So this great guy, he was basically an alcoholic, lived 85 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:54.639 his life in alcoholic days totally. When he had a 86 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.360 heart condition, was in mal health that it was basically 87 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:04.920 from a lifetime babby drinking. So on September ninth, thinteen 88 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:08.000 thirty three, Grace and his nurse, twenty eight year old 89 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:13.319 Helen Helene Roberts, were walking through the extens of the 90 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:17.240 state of the Cabins when his former nurse, forty three 91 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:25.360 year old Frieda Willheima Augusta Wells, approached him and after 92 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:28.639 a short discussion, she pulled out a thirty two caliber 93 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:33.199 pistol and shot him in the chest. He made it 94 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.279 to the door and slumped into the arms of his butler, 95 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:39.040 who was a former guard of the Gazar of the 96 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:44.759 Tsar in Russia. He disarmed. The woman called the police. 97 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:49.360 Wels was all woozy and she told the police that 98 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:54.879 she had taken lumina, which is a mild narcotic, and 99 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.360 she was taken to the hospital get her stomach pumped, 100 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:03.079 and Grace was taken to the morgue. So she was 101 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.759 fragile and quiet, and she said she only had her 102 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:11.040 own reasons and he didn't do what he promised to do. 103 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:15.800 Their family shows up and stuff, and you know, goes 104 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:26.560 to court. They're very properly represented by attorneys. One attorney 105 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:32.120 came out from her hometown and outside of Philadelphia or 106 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:35.759 outside of Pittsburgh, and they also hired a Santa Cruz 107 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:42.399 former district attorney, Sandford Smith, as co counsel. So people 108 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:51.399 right away, you know, we're interested in this case because 109 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:55.480 it was you know, rich people and his former nurse 110 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.639 shooting him. But they really got into it once it 111 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:13.079 came into into court. And what happened was that she 112 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:17.079 told the story on the stand. She kept it to 113 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.319 herself until the day she went understand to be pooreded. 114 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:26.920 But on June seventh, nineteen thirty two, while she was 115 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:32.480 Grace's personal nurse, she drove him or she accompanied him. 116 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:35.759 They took the train from San Francisco to Santa Cruz. 117 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.200 The only people at their Santa Cruz manor was a 118 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.679 gardener and possibly somebody else, and he basically slipped her 119 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:47.840 and Mickey a vat rape drug in her drink in 120 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:51.799 her wine over dinner, and she woke up the next 121 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:57.759 morning desperately sick, and she had bruises on her body, 122 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:00.879 and she realized that she had been raped, and she 123 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.639 was still too sick to get out of bed. So 124 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:08.399 about nine o'clock in the morning, Grace entered the bedroom 125 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.120 and she accused him of drugging and raping her, and 126 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.240 he said it was true, and he laughed about it 127 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:16.960 and told her she was a nurse and not to 128 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:19.600 be able to take care of herself. She could not 129 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:23.759 get out of bed the whole day, so she drove back. 130 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:26.799 She got right back to San Francisco the next day, 131 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.200 and after six weeks, she realized she was pregnant, and 132 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.799 she told Grace her condition. He said that he'd take 133 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:37.559 care of her, but he never did, and as the 134 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:43.600 weeks went by, she spoke to him. He suggested that 135 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:48.120 she take a drug to abort the pregnancy. Yeah, so 136 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:53.679 on August twenty first, she took the drug, and she 137 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.639 lost over twenty five pounds and was weak and sick 138 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.600 and wasn't able to work. She has Grace for money. 139 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.159 She could rest without him to worry about paying her 140 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:06.879 bills and things and recover from the effects of this 141 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:13.399 of this chemical abortion, and Grace claimed that he was 142 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:17.159 near poverty and gave her nothing, so she'd used her 143 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:20.480 own money, went to Santa Cruz and she stayed at 144 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.679 a hotel that was behind his property, on his back gate, 145 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:28.200 and she'd see him out in his property, and so 146 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:32.039 she planned on shooting him, shooting herself in the head 147 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:38.279 if he refused to help her. And of course, when 148 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:42.279 when it all happened, she ended up shooting him instead 149 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:55.240 of shooting herself. Grace before he was shy. He told 150 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:57.759 her that a child out of wedlock would ruin him 151 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.639 and give me in it that she keeps promise to 152 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:11.559 take care of the situation. So we have this did 153 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:17.279 rich guy who who drugged and raped his personal nurse 154 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:24.840 and then wouldn't help her with recovering from the abortion 155 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:30.240 or anything, or you know, even wanting to to help 156 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.399 in any way. So so they go on with this trial. 157 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.039 She exposes everything, and this is you know, you know, 158 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:45.000 Santa Cruz is very close to Carmel and Monterey, you 159 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:49.080 know where the rich have lived in California pretty much 160 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:52.159 since it began. So you know, these people were the 161 00:11:52.240 --> 00:12:00.000 high edgelon of higher society. So they go out. The 162 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.960 ten hours of deliberation, jury came back and found her 163 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:11.919 not guilty of murder. And the crowd, they said the 164 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:15.679 Santa Criuz Sentinel said, feet pounded, hands clapped, and many 165 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:24.720 cheered and whistled, and the foreman of the jury burst 166 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.159 into tears and fell into the arms of freedom, and 167 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:32.960 they both uncontrollably sobbed in each other's shoulders for two 168 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:38.159 excuse me, two full minutes. So they were getting ready 169 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:44.720 to fly back to Pennsylvania. And as they were getting 170 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:48.879 into the train to go to San Francisco to catch 171 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:55.639 their plane back to Pittsburgh, Wells was secretly approached by 172 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:58.159 one of the jury members and he told her that 173 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.399 he had been wounded and Fanders during World War One, 174 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.639 and it was none other than Frieda who had patched 175 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:07.480 him up and tended his wounds. Well he waited to 176 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:10.519 be transported to the front line. During World War One. 177 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:13.080 She worked on the front lines as a nurse. 178 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.360 That's right. 179 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:19.240 Yeah, it was amazing too that so many people thanked her. 180 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:20.000 You talk about. 181 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.559 A jury member said that that he had been wounded 182 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:29.679 in Flanders and it was none other than Welts that 183 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:34.840 had tended to him. And when you talk about the lawyer, 184 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.279 her attorney, Oh yeah, he claimed to be she had 185 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:44.799 saved his son. So it's an extraordinary story where there 186 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:49.200 was no way with her sympathetic story despite not having 187 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:54.799 any corroboration whatsoever. It really was why she was set 188 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:59.480 free because this was extraordinary circumstances where she had been 189 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.639 such are to so many people, saved so many people's lives, 190 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:06.559 and that was well documented. But just having two people 191 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:11.519 so crucial to this trial having been indebted to her 192 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:17.039 and saying so is an extraordinary you know, the story incredible. 193 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.799 Yeah, And you know I found a lot in well 194 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:27.399 writing this book of cases where people got away with 195 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:32.120 murder just because of the jury, you know, even though 196 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:36.600 they were totally guilty and admitted it. I've got three 197 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:39.240 or four cases chapters in this book where that happened. 198 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:43.879 You actually have a chapter called getting Away with Murder. 199 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:51.600 June twenty ninth, nineteen fifty four, Los Angeles. Philip Alm 200 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:59.240 is a stuntman and film extra. And Andrew Ackerman, another 201 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.600 character in this incredible story, is a stuntman and an 202 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:05.759 extra as well. So they're involved in the film business. 203 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:13.840 And you have Barbara Clampet counsulman and this home with 204 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:18.519 a swimming pool and again some opulence and a character 205 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:20.200 named ed Neely. 206 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:21.679 So tell us. 207 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.639 About this story getting got away with murder as you 208 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:26.039 poll it. 209 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:33.720 Yeah, this is nineteen fifty four. And the daughters of 210 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:40.480 Edward Clampett, who was a founding father of modern Los Angeles, 211 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:44.120 and he helped develop the Los Angeles oil field and 212 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.960 was involved in all that kind of stuff as a 213 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.879 city councilman for a while, flying to all the same 214 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:53.639 all the great groups and things. He died nineteen nineteen. 215 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:56.960 His wife died about eight years later and left the 216 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.799 whole fortune to his two daughters, Leah and Barbara. And 217 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:06.320 Barbara married four times. Leah married six and she was 218 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:12.840 involved in the bouse swapping scandal, and she had an 219 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:17.240 affair with film comedian Buster Keaton, which broke up his 220 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:21.840 marriage and her marriage, and she managed to survive an 221 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:26.639 airplane crash in there, so they lived in she lived 222 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:32.240 Barbara lived in Wiltshire neighborhood of Los Angeles, which is 223 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:37.240 still very tony. It's a little south of Beverly Hills. 224 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:44.519 And about noon, well they were having their weekend party, 225 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:49.320 was still going on Monday and you know, this was 226 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:55.679 nineteen fifty four in La You know, the booze ran 227 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:01.519 smoothly and no one got caught drunk driving. So about 228 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:07.920 noon the Hollywood stuntman Phil Allam and his friend Andrew 229 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.480 Aickerman showed up at Barber's house in their swimwear to 230 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.759 take a dip in Barber's pool, and they pretty much 231 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:19.000 had open house all weekend. So Alm was from Sweden. 232 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.960 He was a captain in the Swedish Army and became 233 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.559 a citizen in nineteen forty four while serving in the 234 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.920 us R. And he was in nineteen forty eighth Joan 235 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.200 of Arc and he was in The Postman Always Rings twice. 236 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:36.759 He's in quite a few movies. Even though he was Swedish. 237 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:40.240 She had already lost his Swedish accent. He'd only been 238 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:42.920 in the country like twenty years and he had no accent. 239 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:49.319 While they're at that house, this Neely guy ed Neely. 240 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.000 He was a Texas oil man, cain of con artist, 241 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.039 lived in California for decades, but he still had this 242 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:02.880 brash East Texas accent, kind of like Foghorn Leghorned her 243 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:08.880 tune character from from the fifties, and that So he 244 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:13.799 was Leah's six husbands, and I believe it was his last. 245 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.480 He was They were kind of giving each other crap about. 246 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:20.079 You know, they were all drunk for days, and Neely 247 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.119 was giving him grief about being a Swede, and you know, 248 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.559 they were raising each other, and you know, he's like, hey, 249 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:28.559 at least I lost my accent and you used to 250 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:33.680 have a stupid Texas drawl. And they started kneedling each 251 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:38.799 other about horses, guns and Sweden and Texas and all 252 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:45.160 made a dorog terry remark about Senator Joseph McCarthy, and 253 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.000 that's when Neely got really mad, pulled out his gun 254 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:53.079 and shot him twice with a nine millimeters Italian pistol. 255 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:58.839 So when the cops ride, they found out stretched out 256 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.279 in the living room rug and the campus sisters and 257 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:05.680 Ackerman were chatting and passing a bottle of vodka over 258 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:10.240 his body. They arrested Neely and took on to the hospital, 259 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:17.720 and days later, six almost a week later, almost in 260 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:20.680 the hospital, he was recovering fine, and all of a 261 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.240 sudden he just collapsed and died while he was walking 262 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:28.319 around in the corridor. And they couldn't, you know, they 263 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:30.640 were like wow, what happened? He figured it was a 264 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.720 blood clot to his brain, so they charged Neely with murder. 265 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.960 The trial started in November third, nineteen fifty four, pretty 266 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:44.240 quick actually, and you know, they got really good attorneys 267 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:49.440 and kind of a lackluster prosecution if you asked me. 268 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:57.359 But Neely admitted to shooting him, and and all was 269 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:01.039 you know, awakened, could describe the whole thing to police 270 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:06.039 that happened. But Neely said it was in self defense 271 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:09.960 and that almost was a real strong guy. He was well, 272 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:11.720 he was a stuntman, so I'm sure he was in 273 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:18.519 great shape and everything. But they decided that he died 274 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.839 not from being shot, but from a celebral hemorrhage. And 275 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:28.880 because they didn't the coroner didn't do examine his brain 276 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:35.079 during the autopsy, they never would know. So Neely got 277 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:43.359 off the hook because of that. It's a yeah, he 278 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.039 got away with it. He was acquitted on November fifteenth, 279 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:52.359 nineteen fifty four. That's like, there's another case where that 280 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:59.200 kind of happened. Where this one happened in in Fresno, 281 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:05.400 California in nineteen sixty six, and this guy shot his 282 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:13.880 ex wife and her boyfriend and he He was convicted 283 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:18.000 of killing his wife, but not her boyfriend who he 284 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.279 shot with the shotgun. He shot them both of shotguns, right, 285 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:29.319 because he had died from catching hippotitis with a blood transfusion, 286 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.160 And they said he didn't die from actually being shot. 287 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:38.759 He died from catching hipatitis with the blood transfusion. He 288 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:44.319 still got put away for killing his wife. But I 289 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:49.599 never heard of that happening before until these cases. Interesting 290 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.640 where you know, it's like, all right, you shoot somebody 291 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.920 and then they catch something in the hospital, so he 292 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:01.240 technically didn't kill them, that's what they said. I think 293 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.039 now you would get convicted of murder from that. 294 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:09.240 Yeah, And I've seen cases where, you know, they might 295 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:16.839 have thought that there was attributing factors outside of the assault, 296 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:22.599 but however, the person dies so that you're responsible to 297 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.079 a varying degree or a certain degree, so there's no way. 298 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.160 Yeah, you're right. I think today you would not get 299 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.119 an acquittal. That would be I don't know that was 300 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:35.240 you would not get an acquittal. 301 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:40.559 You have another story called Little Black Book that just 302 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.519 seems to have so many parallels with today. We would 303 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:47.880 be reading Instagram or Facebook messages or some sort of messages, 304 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.599 text messages that would have recorded forensically, the police would 305 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.680 be able to obtain them. 306 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:54.599 But you have this little black book. 307 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.359 A story November twenty fifth, nineteen fifty eight, or under 308 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:06.359 contra Acosta County William Roy Anderson, sixty years old, president 309 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:10.039 of a collection agency. Not so nice of a well, 310 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.359 not so nice of a guy apparently, but he's a 311 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.160 debt collector. So who likes the debt collector? So tell 312 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:23.319 us about this little black book. And William Roy Anderson. 313 00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:27.799 Well, William Anderson was sixty years old in nineteen fifty eight, 314 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.119 and he was the president of a collection agency in 315 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:36.640 downtown San Francisco. They were described the country Costa sheriff 316 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:42.160 inspector said they were hard pounding, go getting outfit, and 317 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.480 they filed as many as twenty to thirty property leans 318 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:50.799 a day against Bay area debtors. So he was making 319 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:55.119 pretty good money. Arenda is I guess it always has 320 00:23:55.240 --> 00:24:03.920 been a very upper class place, just east of Oakland 321 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:10.759 in San Francisco, just maybe fifteen miles from downtown San Francisco, 322 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:14.079 or so. He was married for thirty three years, but 323 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:20.680 he was a relentless womanizer and his wife, she claimed 324 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.359 not know anything about his tom catting ways or anything. 325 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:29.279 And so on November twenty fifth, nineteen fifty eight, they 326 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:33.119 were relaxing in their separate bedrooms. Around nine o'clock, the 327 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:38.160 doorbell rang and Anderson answered the door. He overheard his 328 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:41.200 wife overheard him say, you've got the wrong Roy Anderson, 329 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.000 and she heard a gunshot and she found him laying 330 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.160 in the doorway deady fired. Someone fired a twenty two 331 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.119 caliber bullet through the screen door and directly into his 332 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:57.400 heart and killed him. So they found a spun shell 333 00:24:57.920 --> 00:24:59.920 bullet went right through him. And they never did fi 334 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:05.640 in the bullets maybe fell down a furnace vent or 335 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:09.559 something like that after it came out of Anderson, but 336 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:13.400 they don't know. So while they were searching is belongings, 337 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.160 they found a note in his suit jacket that he 338 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.319 had worn that day and it said open in case 339 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:25.200 of emergency. He just had contact numbers and stuff like that, 340 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:28.759 you know, in case something happened to him. And then 341 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:39.920 we found an identical envelope in his dresser drawer and 342 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:42.759 he was just oddly that he was reading at his 343 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:48.000 bedside a mystery novel called Two Deaths Must Die, So 344 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:51.920 probably didn't know how quick that was going to happen. 345 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.960 So the police also found this little black book and 346 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.720 it had cryptic interest entries in it. It covered over 347 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:04.599 ten years of notes to one woman, and there were 348 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.960 names of a dozen other women in the book, some 349 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:12.759 without addresses or phone numbers and just dates for him 350 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:16.359 to remember. The police checked down all these people and 351 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:19.880 seven of the fifteen women lived in the same apartment 352 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.279 building in San Francisco, which is really odd. And you know, 353 00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:27.680 so the cops thought, oh, there's a you know, a 354 00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:34.279 jealous partner, you know, husband or something, or you know, 355 00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:39.240 it could be a just scrumbled debtor. They spoke to 356 00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:43.640 his business partner and he said that Anderson was nervous 357 00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:48.319 the day of his murder, and he confided in him 358 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.759 that between the Devil and Deep Blue Sea, his only 359 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:55.839 solution was to go to Mexico. And he didn't really 360 00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.279 know what he meant about it, you know, he said, 361 00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.440 we're in a rough tumble business, full angry and to 362 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.440 scrandle people with free tempers and rooting lives. And he goes, 363 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:09.279 as far as I know, Roy had no enemies. We've 364 00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:11.839 been punched in the mouth, but never shot at. Before 365 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:18.839 the police were curious about this one guy named Lawrence 366 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:29.039 Swnicki who had worked for him and had cast some 367 00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:32.480 checks that were for the company into his own private 368 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:37.240 gambezzled basically, and they thought that he might have had 369 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.640 something to do with it because they were filing They 370 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.440 filed federal charges on him, but it turned out that 371 00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:47.000 he was living in Pennsylvania with his brother and he 372 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:52.599 was just waiting for his sentencing. So there was another employee, 373 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:59.359 twenty five year old secretary Wreath Maxine Parks Bill Abertie, 374 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:04.039 and police discovered that she and Anderson spent November twenty 375 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:07.799 first through the twenty third at a holiday hotel in Reno, 376 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:13.400 and he told She told the officers that she companied 377 00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:17.920 on many overnight trips to Sacramento, Santa Rosa, Santa Cruz 378 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:21.039 as well as Reno. They had a little more digging 379 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:24.440 and they found out that Anderson was paying her rent 380 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:29.359 at her apartment San Francisco, and she was also the 381 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.599 beneficiary of a twenty five thousand dollars life insurance policy 382 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:40.759 to Aamson. Yeah, so she admitted to the affair and 383 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.200 said that Anderson told her that he was having an 384 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:46.960 affair with someone for over ten years and was going 385 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.319 to break up with her, and then he had two 386 00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:53.519 other girlfriends and the same time. You know, his wife 387 00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:58.599 was unaware of any of this, so you know, they 388 00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:03.519 could not get anywhere in case they didn't. You know, 389 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:09.720 there's too many, too many people involved in it. And 390 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:15.440 some guy who some mystery people showed up in their 391 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.359 town asking for them. As you know, nothing came of 392 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.240 that or anything either. So you know, no one knows 393 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.799 Sue killed Roy Anderson. It could have been an angry daughter, 394 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:31.240 a jealous boyfriend or husband from one of his many lovers. 395 00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:34.519 It could have been one of his lovers or former lovers. 396 00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:37.720 Could have been a paid hit. It could have been 397 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:42.160 his wife, could have been a case of mistaken identity, 398 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:47.519 and according to San Francisco columnists San Francisco Examiner columnists 399 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:52.200 Dan Frishman, there were one hundred and thirteen other William 400 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:55.880 or Roy Anderson's in the San Francisco Bay area. 401 00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.839