1 00:00:16,039 --> 00:00:19,559 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:19,679 --> 00:00:23,079 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,760 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,519 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:30,519 --> 00:00:34,600 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 6 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,320 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,840 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:46,960 Our guest today is Rachel O'Brien, deputy public policy editor 9 00:00:47,119 --> 00:00:50,399 for openthebooks dot com. If you want to know what 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,280 is going on in the name of your tax dollars, 11 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,479 where those tax dollars are going, you need to take 12 00:00:57,479 --> 00:01:01,799 a look at openthebooks dot com. Let's start here. Seventy 13 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,439 five one hundred dollars per second. The federal government has 14 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:12,159 wasted seventy five hundred dollars per second of taxpayer money 15 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,719 and improper payments on President Joe Biden and Vice President 16 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:24,799 Kamala Harris's watch. The administration is looking or at least 17 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,000 on pace, to crack the one trillion dollar mark, a 18 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,640 new wasteful record, according to a new report by Open 19 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,959 the Books. Rachel this is perhaps not surprising, but it's 20 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,239 still stunning on the leves. 21 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: Yes, thanks Matt for having me, and it is stunning. 22 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,959 All Americans should be stune by this. So, you know, 23 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,959 an improper payment for people who don't know is exactly 24 00:01:49,959 --> 00:01:53,640 what it sounds like. It's the government paying either the 25 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,079 wrong person or in the wrong amount or for the 26 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,480 wrong reason. Federal agencies have to have wrong information sometimes 27 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,760 or they can't access information they need. It is really 28 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,639 stunning what you would think the federal government would have 29 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,120 access to and be able to do. And they simply 30 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,960 can't make these payments properly. So, like you mentioned, seventy 31 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,719 five hundred dollars every second is wasted. That translates to 32 00:02:19,039 --> 00:02:22,719 four hundred and fifty thousand dollars every minute. That is 33 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:26,039 the cost of an out of house in the United States. Yeah, 34 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,960 so we yeah, go ahead. 35 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,039 Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I mean that number 36 00:02:31,159 --> 00:02:33,400 right off top is amazing. As you head to the 37 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,919 one trillion dollar mark, how did you I mean exhaustive 38 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,719 report here? How did you go through and identify these expenditures? 39 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:48,319 Speaker 2: So federal agencies are required to report their improper payments 40 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,840 every year. Actually, and we just calculated the total. So 41 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,000 last fiscal year there were two hundred and thirty five 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,120 billion dollars in improper payments. That is more than the 43 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,280 entire budget of every state except for California. So we 44 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:08,199 went and said, we wonder how much during the Biden 45 00:03:08,199 --> 00:03:10,879 administration has been wasted. And we did the pretty simple 46 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,199 math and found that by the time he's out of office, 47 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,960 his administration will have overseen more than a trillion dollars 48 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,240 in improper payments, and that is an unfortunate record. During 49 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,039 the Trump administration it was about two hundred billion dollars 50 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,719 less than that. So every administration is wasting money. They're 51 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:36,319 all they all need to do better. The federal agencies 52 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,439 are wasting money. They're the ones that are writing these checks. Right. 53 00:03:39,479 --> 00:03:43,879 It's not President Biden or President Trump. It is bureaucrats 54 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,960 who are unfortunately wasting taxpayer. 55 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:50,759 Speaker 1: Funds, and it's Congress not holding them accountable. And we'll 56 00:03:50,759 --> 00:03:53,319 delve into that in just a bit. But I think 57 00:03:53,319 --> 00:03:57,199 it's interesting and a bit on the ironic side that 58 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:03,240 Joe Biden is heading to Howard this massive, dubious record. 59 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,840 Of course, but he's being hit in many ways by 60 00:04:07,919 --> 00:04:14,439 his own overspending and Congress is penshon for overspending in 61 00:04:14,479 --> 00:04:18,639 his lead and what has driven up inflation in this country. 62 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,680 A lot of this stuff has to be adjusted for inflation, 63 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,639 and it has to be more so adjusted for Biden inflation, 64 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,560 does it not right? 65 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 2: So actually, when you talk about inflation, our figures, I 66 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,680 believe are so when we compare to President Trump's four 67 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,839 years in office, that the figure that I mentioned that 68 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,560 so Biden's administration has wasted thirty four percent more money 69 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,040 in his first three years in office than Trump did 70 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,439 in his first three years in office, even adjusted for inflation. 71 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,160 So we recognize that inflation is a big factor here. 72 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,279 Even adjusting for inflation, Trump in his four years he 73 00:04:59,319 --> 00:05:03,160 saw two hundred billion dollars fewer and improper payments. And obviously, 74 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,639 you know, Biden's not done with his administration yet. So 75 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,720 that's why that one trillion dollar plus figure is so high, 76 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:17,720 because just even in three years alone, he has his agencies, 77 00:05:17,759 --> 00:05:22,240 and like you say, Congress not holding them responsible and 78 00:05:22,319 --> 00:05:25,879 requiring change, they've just driven these costs through the roof. 79 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:28,959 Speaker 1: Let's put this in perspective as well. I mean, we 80 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:34,680 are absolutely buried in debt. We all know that we 81 00:05:34,879 --> 00:05:40,879 have basically mortgaged our children, grandchildren, their grandchildren's future to 82 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:48,360 pay for priorities so called and programs. Today. This represents 83 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,480 what you're talking about here in these improper payments one 84 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,639 thirty fifth of the entire thirty five trillion dollar plus debt. 85 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,720 That's an amazing figure for way. 86 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 2: That's right, it is And obviously with that thirty five 87 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,160 trillion dollars in debt, Congress and the President should be 88 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,879 should be taking steps to address this. So getting into 89 00:06:11,959 --> 00:06:16,439 some of these figures, Medicare and Medicaid, they've accounted for 90 00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:20,040 forty three percent of improper payments last year. That's usually 91 00:06:20,079 --> 00:06:23,199 the case. They're usually the biggest culprits of waste one 92 00:06:23,319 --> 00:06:28,439 hundred and two billion dollars last year. Mismanaged COVID programs, 93 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,360 those continue to waste tax dollars. Dead people are receiving 94 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,839 money every year. They received about three hundred million dollars 95 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,959 last year. And that's simply because you know, the Office 96 00:06:40,959 --> 00:06:45,720 of Personal Management IRS, any of these agencies that are 97 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,879 making payments to retirees, giving benefits to retirees, they don't 98 00:06:50,959 --> 00:06:54,639 update their records when people die, so they're continuing to 99 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,439 get checks. Sometimes you know, relatives are cashing those checks, 100 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,439 they're not sending them back. Another one hundred and seventy 101 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:05,160 one million dollars was paid to prisoners, people in prison 102 00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:09,480 who should not be getting these checks. The irs twenty 103 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:14,959 five billion they gave in erroneous tax credits. Five hundred 104 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,959 and forty six million went to families who claim they 105 00:07:18,079 --> 00:07:21,480 had more children than they actually did. So these are 106 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,439 these are the wastes across all federal agencies. They're all 107 00:07:25,519 --> 00:07:30,160 wasting money. You know, some of these payments do get recovered, 108 00:07:30,279 --> 00:07:33,240 they're able to the government is able to claw back 109 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,000 some of it. About less than a third, about twenty 110 00:07:37,079 --> 00:07:42,639 nine percent last year was recovered. But these these payments 111 00:07:42,639 --> 00:07:45,279 should be made in the first place, you know, these 112 00:07:45,319 --> 00:07:48,560 agencies should do their job and confirm that they're paying 113 00:07:48,639 --> 00:07:51,399 the right person and for the right amount. And I'd 114 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,000 like to also mention that that this this these figures 115 00:07:55,439 --> 00:08:01,560 don't include what the Government Accountability Office calls sophisticated fraud schemes. 116 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,519 These are just errors. These are financial errors. So there's 117 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,879 untold billions more in these sophisticated fraud schemes that are 118 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:10,560 taking money. 119 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: Well, I tell you, it makes you feel good about 120 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,720 a hard day's work around grabbing up that cash and 121 00:08:16,759 --> 00:08:19,560 then wasting it. If it's any consolation. By the way, 122 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,439 some of the deceased recipients of the government program checks 123 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,680 will show up on the voter rolls, So there. 124 00:08:26,519 --> 00:08:29,199 Speaker 2: You have, they're getting paid on their voting. 125 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,519 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's full circle. You mentioned COVID. I mean, we 126 00:08:33,639 --> 00:08:38,879 haven't seen anything like the COVID stimulus funding so to speak. 127 00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:42,679 The stemmy checks that have gone out the first part 128 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,919 of the pandemic a lot of money. They're trillions of 129 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:51,759 dollars in the name of, you know, trying to mitigate 130 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:55,519 the pandemic and its effects. A lot of waste there. 131 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:58,840 What are we looking at in terms of the again 132 00:08:58,919 --> 00:09:03,840 the dollar figure and how all of that was handled. 133 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, the most recent figure we've seen is also about 134 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:12,639 one trillion, and that is that is over all COVID 135 00:09:12,919 --> 00:09:20,159 nineteen payments. It's small businesses, it's stimulus, it's funds directly 136 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,840 to states and cities, and that's estimated. Again, these are 137 00:09:24,919 --> 00:09:28,759 all estimates because it's hard to keep track of money 138 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,440 you spent improperly, right, So that trillion we have that 139 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:39,840 trillion dollar estimate of wasteful and or fraudulent covid AID. 140 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,759 That's that's money that's not going to get back. You 141 00:09:42,879 --> 00:09:49,240 see the DOJ going after fraudulent actors and prosecuting them 142 00:09:49,279 --> 00:09:52,480 and trying to claw back some of that money. But 143 00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:55,840 percentage wise, it's got to be lower than the twenty 144 00:09:55,919 --> 00:09:59,559 nine percent we're talking about here with improper payments in 145 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,600 some case, as you have people overseas who are able 146 00:10:02,639 --> 00:10:07,080 to fraudulently get their hands on covid AID by stealing 147 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,320 identities and personating people, making up fake businesses, stealing social 148 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,399 Security numbers of back to dead people stealing their social 149 00:10:15,399 --> 00:10:17,879 Security numbers. So the amount of fraud that went on 150 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:23,440 with the pandemic again that estimated trillion dollars, you know, 151 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,279 very little of that is able to get clawed back. 152 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: Rachel, I'm curious, is there any way to track the 153 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,279 amount of improper payments or have you been able to 154 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:35,440 do this in this report. I know you've got a 155 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,240 lot of different categories, but I'm curious about the improper 156 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,519 payments made in one of the biggest issues facing this 157 00:10:42,639 --> 00:10:47,320 country facing this election, illegal immigration and the housing the 158 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:54,440 resources involved with paying for the massive influx of illegal immigrants. 159 00:10:54,639 --> 00:10:57,559 Does your report take a look at that, so. 160 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 2: It doesn't break it down by necessarily program spending. In 161 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,519 some agencies, they do break down program program spending, but no, 162 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:14,320 in terms of these improper payments, you know, they may 163 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,240 not be when you're talking about funding for for uh, 164 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,279 you know, say like the city of New York where 165 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:25,000 I live. You know, billions and billions of dollars spent 166 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:31,360 on funding housing and food for for illegal immigrants. That's 167 00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:35,679 not that's not considered improper payments. Unfortunately. That's considered a 168 00:11:35,799 --> 00:11:38,600 valid payment. That is something that the federal government has 169 00:11:38,639 --> 00:11:40,879 decided they're going to spend money on, or they're going 170 00:11:40,919 --> 00:11:44,440 to help cities spend money on. And so unless, say 171 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,159 the City of New York gets paid for a million 172 00:11:49,639 --> 00:11:54,480 immigrants instead of five hundred thousand immigrants, it's not considered 173 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,840 an improper payment. And so that wouldn't show up, right, 174 00:11:56,879 --> 00:12:01,440 So things that we could consider wasteful spending or spending 175 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:04,840 on things that the United States government shouldn't be spending on, 176 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,240 that's not going to show up in these figures. 177 00:12:07,799 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: That's amazing, it really is that the tracking on that 178 00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:16,879 has been awful already, and the question of what kind 179 00:12:16,919 --> 00:12:19,960 of money is actually truly devoted to that. That is 180 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,600 to say, did Congress make those decisions or was that 181 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,960 a discretionary decision by this administration? How much of that 182 00:12:27,159 --> 00:12:30,960 is built into that as well? 183 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 3: When taxing the rich actually solve our problems? The watched 184 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,159 Dout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski every day, 185 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,240 Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy 186 00:12:40,279 --> 00:12:42,720 and how it affects your wallet. All of America's five 187 00:12:42,799 --> 00:12:45,600 hundred and fifty billionaires have a combined net worth of 188 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,879 two point five trillion dollars. Even if we tax them 189 00:12:48,879 --> 00:12:51,320 at one hundred percent, we'd have enough money to fund 190 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,080 the government for eight months. Whether it's happening in DC 191 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,240 or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. 192 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: Be informed. 193 00:12:56,919 --> 00:12:59,039 Speaker 3: Check out the Watchout on Wall Street podcast with Chris 194 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,080 Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 195 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: Speaking of Congress, Congress has the I guess, ultimate authority 196 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,879 in this the power of the purse strings. How much 197 00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:16,720 are they accountable for this trillion dollars at least in 198 00:13:16,759 --> 00:13:19,639 this administration, and we'll get into how much this is. 199 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,200 These improper payments have accumulated over the years in Republican 200 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:30,799 Democrat administrations alike. But is Congress doing anything to hold 201 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,039 the executive branch accountable on the money they appropriate? 202 00:13:34,799 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: Yes, you know, Congress does have to rent it, and 203 00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:39,080 they are the ones that have the power to do that. 204 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,960 So right now, agencies are required to report their improper 205 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,159 payments payment accuracy dot gov. It is available to the 206 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,480 public for download. That's where we got it. That's where 207 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,840 we're able to analyze the year after year we watched this, 208 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,080 and so both parties in Congress admit this is a problem. 209 00:13:57,159 --> 00:14:00,600 So there is a bipartisan group of cong members in 210 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:05,600 the House. They introduce the Improper Payments Transparency Act this May. 211 00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:10,000 It would require the president's budget request to Congress to 212 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,720 identify trends in payment errors and that way there could 213 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:17,639 be a plan proposed to fix them. There's another bill 214 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,480 also in the House that's called the Enhanced Improper Payment 215 00:14:20,559 --> 00:14:25,600 Accountability Act that would require those federal programs that have 216 00:14:25,639 --> 00:14:28,159 budgets of more than one hundred million dollars per year, 217 00:14:28,279 --> 00:14:31,759 would require those programs to get more detailed and timely 218 00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:35,480 reports on their funding. Again, so that you could identify 219 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:38,440 these sort of trends in these these errors see how 220 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,080 these payments are being made and then have a concrete 221 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,240 plan to fix them. For instance, if an agency doesn't 222 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,559 have the correct information it needs to make a payment, 223 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,200 it should not be sending out a payment if it 224 00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:55,120 can't verify that Bill Williams is the correct Bill Williams, 225 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,279 who should receive this check? You shouldn't be getting the check, 226 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,440 and so there should be more There should be more 227 00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:06,759 checks in place to ensure that these payments aren't being 228 00:15:06,759 --> 00:15:07,440 made to begin with. 229 00:15:08,159 --> 00:15:10,879 Speaker 1: The problem seems to me there's too many checks in place, 230 00:15:10,879 --> 00:15:13,639 asks going out to Bill Williams, and all kinds of 231 00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:16,240 Bill Williams right may or may not be the right 232 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:23,799 Bill Williams. Doesn't this ultimately speak to this leviathan, this 233 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,080 massive monster of big government, and the fact that big 234 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,080 government has to ultimately be rained in You know, the 235 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,000 issue in America is most of us don't want to 236 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,559 pay this much money have our tax dollars. It certainly 237 00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,399 go to this kind of waste, but seems to me 238 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,840 to be a byproduct of a government that just endlessly grows. 239 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,679 Speaker 2: Right, the fact that the government has a trillion dollars 240 00:15:54,679 --> 00:16:00,559 to misspend is obviously evidence of a problem. So you know, Congress, 241 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,039 it's back in Congress's hands. They've got to. Of course, 242 00:16:04,039 --> 00:16:07,559 they're the ones that approve spending. They're the ones that 243 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,120 have to brain in the spending and misspending a trillion 244 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:14,360 dollars is it is obviously not something that a business 245 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,600 would do. It's not something an individual would do or 246 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:20,559 a household. It's because the people who are spending these 247 00:16:20,679 --> 00:16:23,600 these dollars, the bureaucrats and the agencies and the members 248 00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:27,039 of Congress, they don't see it as their money. And 249 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,440 because it's somebody else's money, it's almost like play money, 250 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:33,559 and nobody's held accountable. If it were their own money 251 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,600 coming out of their own pockets, certainly there would be 252 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:41,159 a different approach to how they're spending it. So absolutely 253 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,200 it all comes down to performing, not only how much 254 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,279 money is spent, but how it is spent and how 255 00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:48,679 it is kept in check. 256 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,639 Speaker 1: Indeed, any parent will tell you that it's a different 257 00:16:51,679 --> 00:16:54,799 deal when you're spending somebody else's money. The kids send 258 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,559 that they're always much more cautious with the work money 259 00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:02,159 and the alliance money than they are with you know, 260 00:17:02,759 --> 00:17:05,240 here you go enjoy the day at the fair kind 261 00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:09,440 of money. So our guest today is Rachel o'bryen, deputy 262 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,519 public policy editor for Open the Books dot Com. Open 263 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:16,720 the Books dot Com is fantastic work in monitoring the 264 00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:20,480 expenditures your money, basically, what's what's going on with your 265 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:25,519 money in our government? And they've got a fantastic new 266 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,920 report out that tracks what looks like is on pace 267 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,039 to be a trillion dollars worth of wasteful improper payments 268 00:17:34,079 --> 00:17:39,920 going out during the tenure President Joe Biden and Vice 269 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,240 President Kamala Harris. Final question on that front is, you know, 270 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,279 we again, this is a big problem. A trillion dollar 271 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,319 mark is massive over this administration. But this is a 272 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,680 bipartisan issue, is it not. 273 00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is something we see every year. 274 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:08,359 We track this every year, Republican Democrat, and so Barack 275 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:14,440 Obama going back to his administration, has he wasted about 276 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,400 four percent of his administration spendings on improper payments in 277 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,440 his second term. Donald Trump wasted about five percent of 278 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,279 the government spending and Biden is up to six percent. 279 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,480 So it's growing and growing again. You know, the Biden 280 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,160 administration has wasted thirty four percent more money on improper 281 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:41,039 payments than the Trump administration even adjusted for inflation. So 282 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,920 when you have out of control spending, just back to 283 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,480 what we were saying, when you have that out of 284 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,079 control spending, you're going to have out of control waste. 285 00:18:49,079 --> 00:18:55,119 They go hand in hand. President Biden's improper payments were 286 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,680 at a high and twenty twenty one of two hundred 287 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,160 and eighty one billion dollars. So they have been going 288 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,480 down every year. Unfortunately, they're still incredibly high, higher than 289 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,599 ever in previous administrations. So they went down and down, 290 00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:13,759 quote unquote down to two hundred and forty seven billion 291 00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:16,680 dollars in twenty twenty two, and then just this last 292 00:19:16,759 --> 00:19:19,200 year down to two hundred and thirty five billion dollars 293 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,319 in twenty twenty three. But that two hundred and eighty 294 00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:24,920 one billion was so high to begin with, the country 295 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,039 can't make up for it. It's still going to be 296 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,440 this historic one trillion dollars in wrongful payments by the 297 00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:31,319 end of Biden's term. 298 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,039 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the inflation argument, you know, we 299 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,720 hear from the Biden Harris administration. Oh, everything's all right now, 300 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,279 inflation is going down. Well, sure it's going down by 301 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:46,000 a fragment, but it's still at significantly high levels, and 302 00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:48,880 just ask the consumer how much of that, of course, 303 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,839 is leading to the prices we're paying for for everything. 304 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,880 You know this again, trillion dollars is part of a 305 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,920 massive debt structure that has a definite, long term and 306 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,599 immediate impact on what consumers are paying. 307 00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. We're all seeing all of our 308 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,559 bills go up. Every single one of my utility bills 309 00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:14,440 has increased, property taxes, everything goes up. Your grocery bills 310 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,519 are like fifty percent more than they were a few 311 00:20:16,599 --> 00:20:20,559 years ago. So while you could say, sure inflation is 312 00:20:20,599 --> 00:20:24,480 going down, or sure these improper payments are going down, 313 00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:29,319 they're still incredibly and irresponsibly high, and we're paying for it. 314 00:20:29,319 --> 00:20:31,039 We're the ones paying for it. Our kids and our 315 00:20:31,079 --> 00:20:32,960 great kids, of course are going to have to pay 316 00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:37,799 that thirty five trillion dollars in debt. And so some 317 00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:40,319 concrete actions need to be taken by Congress. It looks 318 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,880 like there's a good start with those two bills I 319 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,759 mentioned earlier. They're bipartisan bills. Hopefully they will get passed. 320 00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:49,359 Hopefully they will get passed by the Senate, and the 321 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,480 these federal agencies and the presidential administration that oversees them, 322 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,759 they will be held accountable and we can start seeing 323 00:20:57,759 --> 00:21:01,440 these numbers go down lower and lower. There's no reason 324 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:06,000 why Medicaid Medicare should should spend one hundred billion dollars 325 00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:10,000 a year in improper payments. It's it's it's it's it's 326 00:21:10,079 --> 00:21:12,880 unfathomable that that's the amount that we're seeing and. 327 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: It's robbing people who actually need the services. Let's let's 328 00:21:16,759 --> 00:21:18,960 not lose sight of that as well. If that's what 329 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,720 we're going to do, if that's what the American taxpayer, 330 00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:27,359 the American people want to do, that's their priority, and 331 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,480 they're sending members of Congress to do just that. You're 332 00:21:31,559 --> 00:21:35,759 you're you're wasting the efforts, You're wasting the resources of 333 00:21:35,839 --> 00:21:38,720 people who really need that. I'm going to turn our 334 00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:43,880 attention now and I send my heartfelt condolences to all 335 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,400 of you had Opened the Books. We learned this past 336 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:56,880 summer that Adam Angievski, the founder of Open the Books, 337 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:03,200 passed away obvious, leaving a huge void in that organization. 338 00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:07,000 The work continues, and the great work continues, but I 339 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:10,119 wanted to talk a little bit about Adam and his legacy. 340 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,759 You know, he drove home the point in the Watchdog 341 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:21,920 organization and the whole effort to scrutinize, monitor and make 342 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:28,079 government truly open. The motto has always been post every 343 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,519 dime online in real time. I know you are continuing 344 00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:36,920 to do that, but again, just a tremendous voice for 345 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,400 transparency in government. 346 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Adam, he began Open the Books about fifteen years 347 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:49,000 ago at his kitchen table, you know, just focusing on 348 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,960 the Chicago suburb where he lives, and that was holding 349 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,480 government accountable to taxpayers. He was described appropriately, I think 350 00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:03,559 as a happy warrior. You know, under his leadership, Open 351 00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:07,160 the Books has expanded, It became this highly respected brand 352 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,720 that we have. You know, if you were anyone other 353 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,400 than a wasteful or irresponsible public servant, you would be 354 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,519 happy to see Adam a great guy just just looking 355 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:25,359 to protect taxpayers, put transparency in front of people, making 356 00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:29,279 government spending which should be accessible to everybody, making it 357 00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:32,400 more accessible. And that's our mission every time online in 358 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,839 real time, you know, putting everything from federal spending to 359 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:43,880 state to city to village line item expenditures on our website, 360 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,519 in our reports. And so his incredible work ethic and 361 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:53,680 his energy and practical sense of optimism has been me missed. 362 00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:57,440 It will continue to be missed. But we're continuing the organization. 363 00:23:57,559 --> 00:24:01,319 We are thankfully a well oiled machine. We're going to 364 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,000 continue Adam's legacy. We have been. You know, we're opening 365 00:24:05,039 --> 00:24:07,599 the books on government spending. We're exposing this waste, fraud, 366 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,039 and abuse that continues to rear its ugly head day 367 00:24:12,079 --> 00:24:15,240 in and day out. So you know, the organization needs 368 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:18,640 to continue to exist so that we can can give 369 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,880 this information to the public. 370 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,559 Speaker 1: Most definitely, and I think one of Adam's greatest legacy. 371 00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:27,440 You kind of touched upon it, and I had the 372 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:33,400 good pleasure of interviewing Adam on a few occasions, several 373 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,839 I think about it over the many years of different 374 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,960 outlets that I've been at, But he definitely made members 375 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,160 of Congress very nervous. He made politicians very nervous, and 376 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,880 you know, if you're making the politicians nervous, you're probably 377 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:48,720 on the right track. 378 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 2: That's right, That's exactly right. One of my favorite recent 379 00:24:54,559 --> 00:25:00,759 memories of Adam doing exactly that was while doctor Anthony 380 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:06,559 Fauci most recently testified to a Congressional committee several months 381 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,799 I believe was in the spring. Adam sat directly behind him. 382 00:25:09,839 --> 00:25:13,799 Adam got to that hearing early. He was one of 383 00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:16,880 the first people in the room. He sat, I believe, 384 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,200 right next to one of Fauci's lawyers in the row 385 00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:22,559 behind him. He's in a few photos that were taken, 386 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,559 you know. So there he was, right on his back, 387 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,720 making sure Fauci knew he was there. You know, open 388 00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:33,160 the books, had done years of reporting and tracking Fauci's 389 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,359 of course, not only his NIH spending, but his salary. 390 00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:40,400 He was at the time the highest paid employee of 391 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,200 the federal government, making more than the president or any 392 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,400 other federal employee. And so we expose that and Adam 393 00:25:47,839 --> 00:25:52,759 that his physical presence behind Fauci was exactly that manifestation 394 00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:57,640 of what we've been doing, you know, on our computers 395 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,880 in tracking these people. Adam, Adam was there in person, 396 00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:03,160 and that's exactly what it was. If you were, if 397 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,440 you're wasteful or abusive, you should. 398 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: Heear him well, speaking of waste, fraud and abuse, you 399 00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:13,880 you hit the trifecta with Anthony Fouchy. My goodness, you know, 400 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:16,920 and I think you know, we talk about these these 401 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,160 large scale projects that you do, and you do great 402 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,960 work on that. Obviously, this this latest report is an 403 00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:26,559 example of the good work you've done over many years. 404 00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:30,680 But this is also something you don't have to wait 405 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,160 for the reports. Americans. Citizens can get involved, go to 406 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:42,839 the website, say they're interested in what you know different bureaucrats, 407 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,720 so what their salaries are. That's a big reason at 408 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,519 the core of why Open the Books was created, so 409 00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:56,400 that Americans can just turn to this stuff easily, as 410 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,680 opposed to having to weigh through all of the budget 411 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,640 eyed and the documents that you folks do all the time. 412 00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:05,960 This is easily accessible information so that they can be 413 00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:07,160 engaged in their government. 414 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:10,319 Speaker 2: That's right. We have a feature now on our website 415 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,880 called Benjamin the Chatbot. It's an AI box on the 416 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,680 bottom right corner. As soon as you go to our 417 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,200 website and you can type in the name of a 418 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:26,640 public employee and get their salary information or pension information. 419 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,759 You could get the information about what vendors have been 420 00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:36,160 receiving money from governments. So if you want to know 421 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,240 how many state or local or even the federal government, 422 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,519 how many entities are our, say, for instance, paying for 423 00:27:43,599 --> 00:27:46,200 Facebook services, you can search Facebook and you can get 424 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,160 that information. So we've waited through that. We file over 425 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,960 fifty thousand freedom of information requests every year, and so 426 00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:59,480 that populates our databases with this spending information that the 427 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,400 public can now search easily through that Benjamin the chatbot, 428 00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:05,160 and that's open the books dot com as easy as 429 00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:08,480 you know it is to remember. That is our name, 430 00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:12,039 that is our website name, and it's a repository for 431 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,640 all of that spending that Adam spent so many years 432 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,640 building up, and that we're continuing to build every year. 433 00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:21,440 You know, twenty twenty three or twenty four rather is 434 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,160 coming to an end. We're going to file another fifty 435 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,480 thousand freedom of information requests to get all the total 436 00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:32,119 stending from this year, you know, beginning in January, and 437 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,599 it's year after year those figures go up and we 438 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:42,160 continue to make it accessible to people exactly as our intention. 439 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,039 Speaker 1: Rachel. I wonder if Benjamin the chatbot, if he comes 440 00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:51,160 with the emoji with the palm in face, palman on forehead, 441 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,839 that expression of oh dear Lord, these people just won't stop. 442 00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:01,359 Speaker 2: I'm going to suggest that to our our grand design. 443 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: I would say, put that little emoji in there when 444 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:10,279 things are really awful, and they they often are. They ultimately, 445 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,200 you know, the idea of the founders remains ever clear today, 446 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,640 and that is an engaged citizen and an informed citizen 447 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,599 leads to a successful republic. That's really the core of 448 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:24,759 openbooks dot com. 449 00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's right. So we pay our taxes, we'd 450 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,200 like to know, you know, where it goes, so we 451 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,839 can decide whether the people we've elected or doing the 452 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,880 right thing with our money. You know, back to the 453 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,319 the fauci uh you know, uh testifying before Congress. One 454 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,039 of the things that opened the books. We've spent years 455 00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:49,680 on is gathering the records on the royalties that are 456 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:53,000 paid to the NIH. And it's scientists, right, So every 457 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:58,279 American was impacted by the pandemic and the shutdowns. People obviously, 458 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,160 you know, lost businesses, people lost income, Obviously, people lost 459 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:10,599 family members. But having shut down the country and had 460 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:14,279 those states that did have vaccine requirements, we started looking 461 00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:18,200 into the NIH and found that they received two point 462 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,480 seven billion dollars in royalties since two thousand and nine. 463 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:28,480 And that's from companies that buy these licenses for these 464 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,000 for technology created by government scientists. So when they come 465 00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:38,279 up with a vaccine or a divine medical device, companies 466 00:30:38,279 --> 00:30:41,200 can buy up the licenses, and so we wanted to know, Hey, 467 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,440 the government scientists that are, you know, getting paid government 468 00:30:46,519 --> 00:30:49,240 salaries through the NIH are they are they getting money 469 00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:52,480 from these third party companies and is a conflict of interest? 470 00:30:52,519 --> 00:30:54,839 And so we've been fighting them for years. We got 471 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,400 we found the two point seven billion dollars in royalties. 472 00:30:57,799 --> 00:31:01,440 There's more to be found. There's still tons of redactions 473 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,640 there and the most recent, most recent thing that we 474 00:31:04,759 --> 00:31:10,920 found is that now foreign licensees, companies in overseas countries 475 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,880 now make up the vast majority of those that are 476 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,279 buying up these NIH technologies. 477 00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: That is a calling just amazing and I don't think 478 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,160 Americans in general know that. So excellent work exposing that information. 479 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,960 I guess that leads me to my final question. This 480 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,319 is a big project we talked about today, the amount 481 00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:37,200 of wasteful spending, improper payments. Clearly you are always in 482 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:42,880 motion filing tens of thousands of Freedom Information Act requests 483 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,319 trying to get this information. Can you give us a 484 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,279 hint at what your next big projects might be? Next 485 00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:51,599 couple of projects coming out? 486 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: Well, so we've done quite a bit of work on universities. 487 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:08,839 You know, universities now in many cases are collecting millions, 488 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,599 tens of millions every year in federal funds, including universities 489 00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:16,240 that don't need it, wealthy universities that have huge endowments. 490 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,640 So we reported on that quite a bit. Private universities 491 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,440 getting grants, federal contracts, plenty of plenty of money, even 492 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,119 though again they have billions of dollars in their endowments. 493 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,880 So we're going to be doing some more there. We're 494 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,759 going to be reporting quite a bit on universities in 495 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:41,160 not only collecting federal funding, but in many cases universities 496 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,039 get foreign funding from foreign governments, including governments that are 497 00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:47,960 not allies of the US. So that's one thing we're 498 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,440 going to continue doing, and you know, weekly, if not 499 00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:55,079 even more more frequently. We're updating our website. We have 500 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,880 investigations going on day in and day out, and if 501 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,839 people want to reach us, Open the Books dot com, 502 00:33:01,119 --> 00:33:03,200 you know, if you have an idea for an investigation, 503 00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:07,440 feel free to reach out there. We're going to continue 504 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,400 doing this and we'd love some suggestions, not that there's 505 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,759 plenty out there already for us to report on. 506 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:20,279 Speaker 1: Sure Sure well, it's extraordinary work. It's extremely necessary work, 507 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,279 and I know it can be laborious, but I know 508 00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:26,559 a lot of people who are very glad that Open 509 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,279 the Books dot Com that Adam started fifteen years ago, 510 00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:36,440 is doing what it does getting the information out there 511 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:42,680 so that ultimately the citizens and hopefully their representatives will 512 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:50,079 hold these massive bureaucratic operations accountable. We look forward to 513 00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:53,000 the next reports and all the great work that you're doing. 514 00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:56,599 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Thank you so much for having me, Matt, You've. 515 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: Bet thanks to my guest today, Rachel O'Brien, Deputy Public 516 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,319 Power US the editor. We're openthebooks dot com. You've been 517 00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:07,200 listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm 518 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,920 Matt Kittle, senior correspondent at The Federalist. We'll be back 519 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,360 soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and 520 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:23,760 anxious for the Fray