Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. Today,
the jury is deliberating the fate of Glaine Maxwell. In
the first full session of deliberations yesterday they got handed
the case with oh, I don't know, an hour or
so left in the court day, so they only got
to sink their teeth into just a little portion of it.
Now today is the full Monty right, They'll be diving
in one hundred percent today going through all of the exhibits,
the evidence, and trying to come to a conclusion on
the fate of Galine Maxwell. Now, I'm of the opinion
that enough has been shown as far as evidence, as
far as testimony, that there should be a conviction coming here.
And I believe that there has been enough evidence provided
by the testimony alone of the survivors to get a conviction.
Is that going to happen? I don't know, right, I
have no idea, I have no faith in the justice system.
So I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, yeah,
without a doubt they'll definitely be a conviction. I don't know,
should there be absolutely has there been enough evidence provided?
In my opinion one hundred percent, But we'll have to
see what the jury thinks. And that's the point what
that we're at right now, Right all of the speculation,
all of the talk, all of the innuendo, it all
comes down to this what the jury believes and how
much of it they believe. Hopefully, when all is said
and done, the jury comes out of this the jurors room,
and they hand the judge a conviction on all counts,
because if there's any shred of justice left in this
goofy ass simulation that we're living in, Glen Maxwell will
go to prison. Now, maybe I'm just jaded, but I'm
certainly prepared for her to walk as well. Now do
I think that's going to happen? I don't. I think
that she's going to be convicted, But I'm not naive
enough to sit here and be one hundred percent certain,
Not when you're dealing with our justice system, not when
you're dealing with the American justice system, because we all
know it's set up for people like Alane Maxwell to
prosper and to get off on crimes, whereas people like
you and I and people like Khalif Browder. Yeah, not
so much. So We're gonna see very soon what Glene
Maxwell's fate will be and hopefully she's convicted, and hopefully
it sends a message to others like her that this
sort of thing is not going to be tolerated in
the future. Now, most of us, when it comes to
high brow society, when it comes to people like Maxwell
or our politicians, we turn our head the other way
when they're stealing or they're involved in some kind of thievery.
We expect that from our politicians. This is a step
too far. You're running around hanging out with people like
Epstein and Maxwell, giving them cover, giving them political help.
That's just unacceptable. And sending Maxwell to prison sends a
little bit of a message at least that people like
this will no longer be tolerated. So let's take a
look at this article from CNN this morning and let's
see what they have to say about the deliberations in
the Glane Maxwell trial. Headline Jerry set to resume deliberations
in Gleanne Maxwell's sex trafficking trial, authors Lauren de Valley
and Eric Levinson after deliberating for less than an hour Monday,
Jurors in Gallaine Maxwell's sex trafficking trial are set to
begin their first full day of deliberations Tuesday in federal
court in New York, Maxwell fifty nine has pleaded not
guilty to six federal counts, including sex trafficking of a minor,
enticing a miner to travel to engage in illegal sex acts,
transporting a miner with the intent to engage in criminal
sexual activity, and three related counts of conspiracy. If convicted
on all six counts, she faces up to seventy years
in prison. Now, remember, after this trial, she's also going
to have to stand trial for perjury charges as well.
The federal government said that she lied during a deposition,
and instead of packaging all of that in this one case,
they decided to have two separate trials. So even if
Maxwell skates on these charges, she still has those perjury
charges that she's going to have to answer for. The
Liberations cap a three week trial highlighted by testimony from
four women who alleged Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused them, and
that Maxwell, his former girlfriend, that co conspirator, general all
around scuzbag and longtime associate, facilitated and sometimes participated in
that abuse. The sexual abuse allegedly occurred when the women
were younger than eighteen and their accusation stretched from nineteen
ninety four to two thousand and four. And now, remember
this is just the very small scope of this one
specific run that they were on, if you will, Glenn
Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein were engaged in a lot more
than just what's being brought to the table here. And
this is the point that the survivors themselves have been
trying to make for a very long time. There was
so much more going on than just the little time
frame that the investigators are looking into, that it has
to be brought up every time we talk about it,
because there's so much left on the table, and there's
so many loose ends, and there are so many more
questions that need to be answered. Epstein, the elusive financier
pedophile who pleaded guilty in two thousand and eight the
state prostitution charges, was indicted on federal sex trafficking charges
in July twenty nineteen, but died by suicide in prison
a month later. Maxwell was arrested in twenty twenty and
has been held behind bars under close watch since now.
Maxwell's team will have you believe that she's been treated
like somebody in the eleventh century who was in the
Tower of London, when in reality, Maxwell's being treated no
different than any other high profile convict or person in
custody in the federal system. When you're you're a high
profile target like Alaine Maxwell, you're going to be in
solitary confinement. What do you think she's gonna be in
a GP general population? They're just going to release her
onto the yard. First of all, she's high profile, she's rich.
She's going to be exploited and extorted if she's put
on the yard. Second, she's accused of crimes against children,
the absolute worst crimes you can possibly be charged with
in prison. The second she hits the yard, she's going
to be greenlit. That means it's open season on Glainne Maxwell.
That's how this works. So the whole entire narrative that
her team was trying to put forward of how this
is just horrible punishment and Glainne Maxwell stuck in solitary confinement, Well,
it's for her own good. Prison's no place for people
like Gallainne Maxwell. She was not built for that life,
and especially being put on the yard with the crimes
that she has hanging over her head, It's not going
to be looked on well by the other women, especially
in general population. At trial, Jane testified that Maxwell organized
sexual massages with Epstein and sometimes joined in the abuse.
Kate testified Maxwell set up those sexual massages. Carolyn testified
Maxwell touched her breast hips and button told her when
she was fourteen she had a great body for Epstein
and his friends. Finally, Annie Farmer testified she was sixteen
when Maxwell massaged her naked chest at Epstein's New Mexico
ranch in nineteen ninety six. So it shows you the
pattern here, right, what Maxwell was up to, what she
was doing, And this is what the Jerry's going to
be looking at this morning. They're going to be looking
at all of these things, all of the evidence that's
been put forward, and they're going to be asking themselves
one question, did Maxwell do this? Has the profile been
built well to prove to the jury that this was
something that not only was Maxwell capable of, but that
she was engaging in, And in my opinion, I think
that the case has been made. Now. Look, I'll be
the first one to tell you that I'm not somebody
who is neutral when it comes to this case. I
have my own biases for sure. And I'm completely sold
on the fact that Maxwell and Epstein and all of
them did all of this stuff. And that's for one
simple reason, because I've followed the evidence to get me here,
and still up until this point, up until this very moment,
I have not seen anything from Galanne, Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein,
Prince Andrew, or any of the rest of them that
would make me believe that their stories are true and
the survivor stories are lies. And I think that the
jury is going to come to that same conclusion. When
you look at all of the evidence that's been provided,
and you look at everything that has occurred thus far,
it's very, very very hard, at least in my opinion,
to come to any other destination besides one that includes
a guilty verdict. The three conspiracy charges relate to allegations
from all four accusers, though testimony from Kate and Farmer
cannot be used on their own. The enticing and transporting
counts relate to testimony from Jane, while the child sex
trafficking charge, the most serious of the charges, relates to
Carolyn's testimony. And again, you really think that it was
only these girls, only these four. We know that people
like this are wired wrong, right, they're lemons. They came
off the line fucked up, and there's no fixing people
like Glene Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein. This is the kind
of shit that they were into. And if they were
caught for these four girls, you know that you can
times it by about ten or twenty or one hundred,
and that's the real number. We'd have to be real
naive if we thought that there were only four girls
that were abused by Jeffrey Epstein and Golayn Maxwell. Now,
obviously the scope of the investigation limits what they can
talk about, but that doesn't limit what we can talk
about because guess what, We've pulled the curtain back already
and we've taken a deep, dark look into the room
and there's no going back. Now we've all seen what's
in there. We've all seen the way the so called
elites think about us and how they believe that we're
nothing more than pieces on a game board. Look at
the way they treat your children. How many endless wars
do we have to be involved in? How many wasted
lives by the elite. And it's not just the countless
wars or any of the other stuff. It's situations such
as this, over and over and over again, these people
continue to keep their boot on the throat of the
rest of us. In its closing argument, the prosecution said
Maxwell's close relationship with Epstein and and his manipulation were
key to international abuse scheme at his properties in New York, Florida,
New Mexico, and the US Virgin Islands. One hundred percent,
Maxwell's close relationship with Epstein opened the door for him
to climb the social ladder. And it's one hundred percent
not even disputable that that's what was happening. Glane Maxwell
was Glaine of the gallow wasn't she. She was invited
to every event, every single one of these highbrow events.
You can guarantee that Gallaine Maxwell would be making an appearance.
And they all knew. All of these people knew that
Jeffrey Epstein was a sick bastard. They might act like
they didn't know, but they did. And then you look
at all of the scumbags from the media that were
hanging out at Epstein's. You know, the Charlie Roses of
the world, the Mike Wallaces of the world, the Katie
Kirkx of the world, the George stepanopolises of the world,
and then you start to get a clear picture of
why the legacy media never wanted to expose Epstein or
Geland Maxwell for the bullshit they were involved in. A
single middle aged man who invites a teenage girl to
visit his ranch, to come to his house to fly
to New York is creepy prosecutor Alison motold jurors. But
when that man is accompanied by a posh, smiling, respectable,
age appropriate woman, that's when everything starts to see him
legitimate and it's true. Imagine being Annie's mom. You call
to make sure that there's a proper chaperone, and you know,
you find out it's Maxwell. You say to yourself, oh shit,
this posh lady from England. There's no way that anything
untowards is gonna happen to my kid. They're in safe hands.
And one thing that I have learned throughout this whole
entire ordeal is the more money you have, the more
fucked up you seem to be. I used to think that,
you know, a lot of these billionaires are just normal folks, right,
That's not the case. Once you start making this kind
of money, it's like your whole entire brain rewires and
you become a sick bastard. I honestly don't know one
single billionaire where I could say, ah, yeah, this is
a good person, somebody who really cares about the rest
of us. And that's pretty sad. And when that woman
encourages those girls to massage that man, when she acts
like it's totally normal for the man to touch those girls,
it lures them into the trap. It allows the man
to silence the alarm bells. And that's what it was
all about, right, normalizing this. Let's normalize this behavior so
Glene Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein and Sarah Kelln Vickers and
Lesley Groff and Adriana Ross, so it could be easier
for them. And when you have all these other girls
around who are already engaging in this behavior because they've
already been groomed, these new girls see it and they're like, oh, well,
this is the way it is. This is how high
society acts. I guess I got to get in where
I fit in. The defense focused its case on lengthy
cross examinations of the four accusers and attacked their motivations
and memories of the alleged incidents. Maxwell declined to testify
in her own defense. In the defense's closing argument, attorney
Laura Meninger sought to distance Maxwell from Epstein and suggested
he had manipulated her as well. She said the prosecution's
cases based on speculation and distracting photos of Maxwell with Epstein,
including several that show her giving him a foot massage.
Again with the foot massage, these people are, they're creepy.
And I know I brought it up one other time,
but remember Virginia has already come out and said that
she had to give Matt Groenig, the creator of The Simpsons,
a foot massage on Epstein's plane, and she said his
feet were crusty and gross as hell. So it fits
the pattern, right. I bring that up because it fits
the pattern. It corroborates what we're seeing here. Epstein obviously
had a proclivity for people touching his feet. She's being
tried here for being with Jeffrey Epstein, and maybe that
was the biggest mistake of her life, but it was
not a crime. Manager told the Jerry, you know, that's
like John Gotti saying, Ay, you know what, my biggest
mistake I've ever had was hanging out with you know,
Sammy the Bull. But his crimes aren't mine. Yes they are.
You guys were both in on them. You were sitting down,
you plan them together. They're all yours, just like Maxwell
and Epstein. What do you think Epstein was making these
decisions in a vacuum, him and Maxwell. Him and Maxwell
were working hand in hand and Menager also went through
the testimony of each accuser and highlighted inconsistencies in their
timelines and their previous interviews with law enforcement, in which
two of the victims, Carolyn and Jane, did not mention Maxwell.
The attorney suggested they misremembered what happened and said they
may have changed their stories for money, and we know
that's not the case, and the misremembering. Basically, what Menager
is doing is calling them liars, trying to say it
in a nice way. Though nobody lied here. Menager, Okay,
nobody misremembered. Your client is guilty. Why would you go
decades without mentioning Glenne Maxwell and suddenly when you have
your personal injury lawyer, you add her to the mix.
Manager said, breaking news. Anyone who took money from the
compensation fund can't get money from Maxwell anyway, So that
whole argument is bull I don't even understand how she's
trying to make this argument. Has menager just showed up
to this case? Are you not paying attention to what's
going on here? Prosecutor Maureen Comi rejected those arguments in
a rebuttal that alluded to the broader societal and economic
forces at play in this case. The defendant never thought
that those teenage girls would have the strength to report
what happened. In her eyes, they were just trashed beneath her.
She said, those girls would never stand up to a
power couple like Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell, and if
they did, who would believe them? And that really gets
to it, right, that gets to the heart of it.
They chose these girls because they were easy prey, and
they knew that nobody would believe them if they came
out and told their story. And those are just the facts, folks.
Now it's up to the jury because all of the talk,
all of the nonsense, that's over and done with. It
is now go time, and the fate of Gleann Maxwell
and justice itself is in the hands of that Jerry
and the rest of us. Well, we wait. All right, folks,
that's gonna do it for me this morning. Obviously, I'll
be back tonight with our evening update and I'll have
some more context episodes to upload as well. So until then,
I hope all of you have a great day. If
you'd like to contact me, you can do that at
Bobby Kapouchi at ProtonMail dot com. That's bo bbu y
c A p U c c I at ProtonMail dot com.
You can also find me on Twitter at bo bbuy
underscore c A p U c c I. The link
that we discussed can be found in the description box.
What's up everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
As day number two of jur deliberation in the Glen
Maxwell trial comes to a close, we still do not
have a verdict. So as we wait for that verdict,
why don't we talk about what went on today? Now?
I have two articles to share with you. The first
one is from the AP headline Ghlaine Maxwell Trial Jerry
finishes first day of deliberations. This article was authored by
Tom Hayes of the Associated Press. The jury deliberating at
Gahline Maxwell's trial finished its first full day of deliberations
Tuesday without reaching a verdict, having asked to review the
testimony of three of four women who said that they
were teens when the British socialite co conspirator General all
Around scusbag aided financier pedophile Jeffrey Epstein in sexually abusing them.
So there were different transcripts from the testimony of these survivors,
and the jury wanted to get this testimony and wanted
to to look at it a little bit more and
you know, use it for rendering their decision. The Manhattan
Federal Court jury requested the transcripts less than an hour
after resuming deliberations in a large room where they could
spread out for coronavirus safety reasons. At day's end, US
District Judge Alison J. Nathan reminded them to keep their
masks on except while leading. So. I guess with the
spread of omicron there is more of an emphasis on
mask regulations and stuff in New York. Here in Las Vegas,
we've had a mask mandate for the whole entire thing
pretty much. So whenever I see people not having you know,
mandates or whatever, I'm like, man, must be nice. But
I guess with the way Omicron's raging or is going
to be raging. There's more of an emphasis on that
right now, and I guess Judge Nathan was making sure
that people were aware of that. The jury had begun
deliberating late Monday, working less than an hour before going
home after closing arguments consumed most of the day. Now,
the next article I'm going to share with you directly
after this one is going to provide more context about
the transcripts and what they could mean as far as
why the jury would be asking for them. At this point,
the jury is deciding whether Maxwell fifty nine assisted her
former financier pedophile boyfriend co conspirator and the sexual abuse
of teenage girls from nineteen ninety four to two thousand
and four. Prosecutors say she recruited and groomed the girls,
making them feel that sexualized massages of Epstein were normal behavior.
And this has been discussed at length here on the podcast.
That's exactly what was going on. The normalization of it
all is for these crimes to be committed, for somebody
like Epstein to carry these crimes out, this behavior has
to be normalized amongst his cohorts. Maxwell's lawyers say the
government has used her as a scapegoat after Epstein killed
himself in twenty nineteen as he awaited his own sex
trafficking trial. Allegedly, the transcripts requested by the jury pertained
to the testimony of two women who testified anonymously as
Jane and Carolyn, along with the testimony of Annie Farmer,
who has spoken publicly about her experiences with Maxwell and Epstein. Farmer,
a forty two year old psychologist, was the only one
of four accusers who used her full real name on
the stand. She testified that Epstein held her hand and
touched her inappropriately at movies in New York and New Mexico,
and that Maxwell touched her breast during a massage in
New Mexico when she was sixteen. And again, if you
look at it just in different frames, right, one frame
at a time, you say to yourself, all right, well,
you know New Mexico, what's the big deal. But when
you look at the overall picture, there was a reason
that Jeffrey Epstein chose New Mexico. There's a reason that
Epstein was abusing these girls in New Mexico. And there
is a reason that Glenn Maxwell was there waiting for
Annie in New Mexico, and that was to normalize it
and to make the whole entire situation seem like it
was legit. She also said Epstein climbed into bed with
her and pressed himself against her before she fled to
a bathroom until he left her room. Now again, think
about this little sixteen year old girl, and old egg
dick himself comes and presses himself up against you, completely unwanted, certainly,
not something that's been solicited. Certainly, not something that I'm
sure Annie was sitting around dreaming about. And she's in
this desolate ass ranch in the middle of nowhere in Stanley,
New Mexico, with Jeffrey Epstein and Glene Maxwell. So the
only recourse is, well, I have to go hide in
the bathroom. Think about what must have been going on
in this poor girl's mind. Her mother testified that Epstein
told her that Farmer's trip to New Mexico would be
with a group of up to twenty five academically gifted
high school students chaperoned by Maxwell, his wife. In reality,
though Farmer was the only student there and Epstein and
Maxwell were never married. Absolutely fact, Look, if you tell
someone's parents that Hey, this is going to be chaperoned,
here's the person that's going to be chaperoning it. There's
going to be twenty five other academically gifted students there.
Parents want to hear that their children are academically gifted, right,
and especially if it's going to give their child an
advantage academically to achieve more. Isn't that the goal? You know,
putting money away for your child's college college scholarships, I
mean college education. That's the whole point of being a parent.
So if you can help your child achieve those goals
by opening a few doors for them, hell, every parent
wants to do that. But imagine having these scoundrels, these
disgusting excuses for human beings, exploit that and take advantage
of a young girl like Annie. Jane said she was
fourteen when she met Maxwell and Epstein and allege that
the pair fondled her together. Carolyn testified about what prosecutors
called a pyramid of abuse encouraged by Maxwell, in which
girls would recruit would recruit underage victims for Epstein to abuse.
Maxwell has been held without bail since her July twenty twenty.
Now that sets the tone right, the picture for what
went down today and what was going on with the jurors,
and usually that's all you're going to get, just a little,
you know, scratch on the surface. But thankfully Adam Klassfeld
over here at lawncrime dot com goes into it a
little bit deeper and he has an article where he
explains in depth a little bit more what this stuff
might mean. The note passing, the transcripts, and all of
the other legalies that was touched on in that previous
article we just read, and some of the different things
that went on inside of the courtroom today. So it's
always nice to get a breakdown from somebody who obviously
knows what they're doing, like Adam Klassfeld in regards to
covering cases like this. So let's check out this article
from Law and Crime and let's see what Adam Klassfeld
has to say. Here's what the jury notes reveal about
the first full day of Glane Maxwell deliberations. A diverse
panel of twelve men and women busily scrutinized reams of
evidence on their first full day of deliberations in the
sex trafficking case of Glene Maxwell. Requesting the testimony of
all three of our alleged victims and notes from an
FBI interview. Though only jurors are privy to the debates
going on inside the deliberation room, juror notes provided clues
about their discussions. Now, I wouldn't know the first thing
about a clue as far as what's going on inside
the courtroom with the jury or anything like that. So again,
it's crucial to have reporters like Adam Klasfeld to break
it down for people like us and make it more digestible,
because I can't make heads or tails of half the
stuff that goes on in these courtrooms most of the time.
A former federal prosecutor described the notes as a mixed
bag for the prosecution and the defense. All admitted exhibits
are before you. Conspicuously absent from the list of witnesses
whose testimony jurors wanted to inspect was Kate, a British
former actress testifying under a pseudonym, who accused Maxwell of
grooming her for sexual abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. It is
undisputed that Kate was seventeen years old above the age
of consent in irrelevant jurisdictions. US District Judge Alison Nathan
instructed jurors that Kate was not an alleged victim, So
that that makes sense then, right, if they only want
the testimony from the three who are the alleged victims,
that makes a lot of sense with the jury looking
to render a decision. The first note provided little insight
into what the jurors wanted to inspect inside the transcripts
of Jane, Carolyn, and Annie Farmer's testimony, but the second
jury note gave a glimpse. The panel wanted to look
at notes from an FBI interview with Carolyn in two
thousand and seven, but jurors mistakenly referred to those notes.
To those notes as a deposition that mix up may
be telling. Notes of FBI interviews with witnesses, known as
three O two's, are not authenticated records of conversations that
have not been recorded and cannot be entered into evidence.
So the three O twos are basically just the FBI notes,
and they can't be used as evidence, and they're not admissible.
They're just the notes that the FBI agents take when
they're doing an interview with somebody. It's called the three
oh two and so what's going on is they're asking
for these three O twos that they're calling depositions the jurors,
but they're ah, they're the judge Nathan. She's letting them
know that it's not evidence. Maxwell's defense attorneys have tried
to undermine her accuser's testimony throughout the trial by claiming
they told the jury a different story than what they
told federal authorities years earlier. So the jury's looking for clarification, right,
They're looking for, you know, trying to put the stories together,
make sure things match up. Does A go with B?
Does B go with C? You know, trying to make
heads or tails of the whole entire thing. Judge Nathan
crafted a response clarifying to the jury that what they
requested is not in evidence. All admitted exhibits are before you.
That instruction read. So they're requesting something that is not
in the evidence, and Nathan is letting them know that
everything that has been admitted they have as exhibits in
front of them. See what I mean when it's when
I say confusing, This kind of stuff make your head like,
I don't know how people get legal degrees. I have
a couple of friends who are lawyers, and I have
no idea how they can keep everything straight. There is
so much that goes on, all the little things, all
the you know, nuanced moves, and it's just crazy unknown accent.
Attorney Mitchell Epner, a former federal prosecutor who led intake
on sex trafficking cases in the District of New Jersey
in two thousand and three and two thousand and four,
found that instruction favorable for the defense. They hammered on
the changes in account from FBI interview to trial testimony,
said Epner, who is now counsel with the firm Rottenberg
Lipmann Rich PC. At least one juror is focused on that,
and that that would make sense that there would be
one juror focused on that, and that's why they're asking
for those transcripts. Definitely would make sense. I mean, again,
we're not in the jurors room. We don't really know
what they're thinking or what their psyche is. But according
to attorney here Mitchell Epner, who's a former federal prosecutor,
he thinks that at least one juror has some reservations
or wants to get a little bit more detail on
the testimony here maxwell under legal team appeared to agree
with that analysis. After the hearing where the jury note
was recited, Maxwell's attorney, Bobby Sternham appeared to be smiling
ear to ear under her face mask when chatting with
the spectator in the gallery. Maxwell herself, who appeared a
little intense when the jury came back with a note,
also looked up beat. The jurors never received the FBI
notes they requested, so again, the jurors were asking for
notes that were not admissible evidence, and they never ended
up receiving them, obviously, because they weren't something that were
The notes weren't in the docket as admissible evidence, so
they weren't able to get them to use them for
whatever purpose they or one of the jurors wanted to
use them for. Even though those notes are not public,
they were described during Carolyn's testimony, as recited by Maxwell's
lawyer Jeffrey Pagliuca. Part of the notes said Carolyn noticed
an older lady with short black hair and an unknown
accent at Epstein's residence. Isn't that what you told FBI
when you told them the truth in two thousand and seven,
Pagliuca asked on December seventh, Yes, Carolyn replied, The lawyer
interrogated the unknown accent aspect of that remark in defending
his British client. Now at that point in your life,
you knew what a British accent was, correct, he pressed.
Carolyn agreed that she did, but she added that she
didn't say an unknown accent. She testified that she told
authorities that Maxwell had an accent in accordance with Department
of Justice policy. No recording of this interview could settle
the controversy. So that's pretty interesting, right. That's something that
they're hung up on here, or appear to be hung
up on. Very interesting. This confusion is by design of
the Department of Justice. Epner noted, they've created the three
zero two system so that you can never get them
cleanly into evidence at a trial, and in this case,
it may be backfiring on them. He added, the same
notes allegedly state that Carolyn obtained Epstein's number from a
telephone book. Carolyn testified that she was referring to her
personal book rather than a directory. So again that's been
the genesis and the basis of the defense and their
strategy to destroy the credibility here. And to try and
press enough holes to get the jerry thinking that, hey,
maybe the testimony is off. Maybe what this survivor or
that survivor is remembering, maybe they misremembered. That is the
goal for the defense. The question is are they doing
it so far? The government's proposal is yes. Just before
deliberations closed for the day, jurors returned a note more
promising for the prosecution, asking Judge Nathan whether they can
consider any farmer's testimony as evidence of conspiracy to commit
a crime in counts one to three. For Assistant US
Attorney Maureen Comy, the answer was obvious, a one word
answer would be correct. Here, Comy said, the government's proposal
is yes. Judge Nathan's instruction to the jurors wasn't much different.
The answer is yes, you may consider it. So that's big.
That's definitely big for the prosecution that they can use
that and her testimony as a basis. And that's going
to be big for the jury to put those ties
together with Maxwell. Judge Nathan's very bare bones affirmative answer
arms those who believe they could consider Oh, excuse me,
let's go back here. We jumped ahead. Ebner told la
on crime that prosecutors must be extraordinarily happy with that
question and answer. When the judge speaks, it's the authoritative
voice in the courtroom. He noted in a phone interview.
The jurors look to the judge for unbiased information, and
when the jurors put a question to a question to
the judge, it almost always means that there was a
dispute amongst the jurors on the issue, and that's to
be expected. I would guess, I would hope that there's
a diligent jury who are going back and forth and
hammering things out and looking for every last possible angle
and every last bit of evidence. That's what you want
in a jury, right, you want it to be going
through every last thing with a fine tooth comb. Judge
Nathan's very bare bones affirmative answer arms those who believe
they could consider Farmer's testimony and takes the wind out
of the sales of any saying the opposite. Ebner said.
The charges in play by Farmer's testimony are conspiracy to
entice individuals under the age of seventeen to travel in
interstate commerce with the intent to engage in illegal sexual
activity and conspiracy to transport individuals under the age of
seventeen to travel in interstate commerce with the intent to
engage in illegal sexual activity. So these are the charges
that she's hit with Maxwell with any and these are
the travel charges bringing someone across state lines with the
intent and purpose of illegal sexual activity. One of two
sisters who reported Epstein to the FBI in the nineteen nineties,
Annie Farmer, told The Jerry that she was sixteen years
old when she flew into Epstein's New Mexico ranch. She
testified that Maxwell touched her breast during a massage there,
and Epstein crawled into bed and he tried to cuddle her.
Under that account, Farmer would not have been a miner
in New Mexico, but she would have been in her
home state of Arizona, as well as in New York,
where she said Epstein felt her leg in a movie
theater earlier. The prosecution's theory of the case is that
Maxwell violated those two counts through the transportation rather than
the alleged acts. And that's crucial, right, because what they're
alleging here is the transportation part of it, not the
act itself. Because the age of consent in New Mexico
is sixteen, so they're talking about the transportation the facilitating
of the Epstein abuse. Farmer's mother, Janis Swain, corroborated the
account that her daughter went to Epstein's ranch after the
movie theater experience in New York because she thought Maxwell
would be their chaperoning her. So that's what went down today, folks.
As far as the deliberation and where we're at, and
a little bit of context on the conversation about the
transcripts and asking for notes and stuff, I figured there'd
be a lot of questions about that, and honestly, it's
way out of my realm as well. I'm certainly not
a lawyer, and when it comes to stuff like this,
will rely on articles and content from people like Adam
Klasfeld who break it down in a way that is
at least halfway digestible for the rest of us. So
that's where it's at right now. That's what's going on
with the jurors and the basic feel from some of
the people who are in the know. My guess is
that will have a verdict tomorrow at some time. Again
just a guess, but it seems like that'll be plenty
of time for the jury to get their heads together
and figure it out one way or the other. If
not tomorrow, obviously, then they could come back Thursday according
to Judge Nathan, so that's possible as well. So we'll
have to see, just like everything else in this case,
more questions than there are answers. But we'll be here
for it tomorrow morning, same time as usual with the
morning update, and then we'll have the evening update as well,
and if anything transpires throughout the day, obviously I'll hop
on right away and we'll get an episode recorded. But
until then there'll be some more context episodes and all
of that good stuff. All right, everybody, I hope you
all have a great night. If you'd like to contact me,
you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com.
That's b O B B Y c A p U
C c I at ProtonMail dot com. You can also
find me on Twitter at b O B B Y
underscore C A p U C c I. The links
that we discussed can be found in the description box.