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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind, where we pursue wisdom

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<v Speaker 1>in the past between primary and secondary worlds. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>angrew Sneyder, and I am always grateful for your company. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, I want to remind you that all

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<v Speaker 1>the content from the Fiction and Philosophy of CS Lewis

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<v Speaker 1>Course is currently available for Tier two patrons and higher

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<v Speaker 1>ten dollars a month for about twenty six lessons. That

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<v Speaker 1>covers nearly all of Lewis's main works of fiction, including

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<v Speaker 1>the Ransom series, Screwtape until we Have Faces, Great Divorce, Narnia,

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<v Speaker 1>and more. And so head over to patreon dot com

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<v Speaker 1>slash Mythic Mind and sign up for that Tier two

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<v Speaker 1>level or higher to get access to all of that

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<v Speaker 1>content right away. And if we get ten new patron

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<v Speaker 1>to that level during the month of November, then I'll

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<v Speaker 1>continue that going with the content from the Life, Death

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<v Speaker 1>and Meeting with Beowulf and Boethia's course. At the time

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm recording this, we are seven patrons away from

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<v Speaker 1>that goal, and you can play your part by going

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<v Speaker 1>over to patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind. And because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm recording this a couple weeks before it's public posting.

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<v Speaker 1>We're hopefully even closer to that goal by now, But

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<v Speaker 1>for now, I want to go ahead and jump right

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<v Speaker 1>into our conversation today, in which I am joined by

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<v Speaker 1>the Middle Earth Mixer, who runs a fairly high engagement

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<v Speaker 1>account on x that is perhaps best known for ratioing

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<v Speaker 1>large accounts. With the help of the Young Captain of Gondor,

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<v Speaker 1>we recently had a general just a fun chat about

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<v Speaker 1>Tolkien ideology and generally what makes Tolkien great and I

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<v Speaker 1>hope that you enjoy. All Right, So today I'm talking

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<v Speaker 1>with the Middle Earth Mixer. I know a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people who are listening are probably already kind of familiar

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<v Speaker 1>with your content. I mean, obviously you're I would consider

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<v Speaker 1>fairly high profile on Twitter. Definitely a lot of engagement,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, I love to talk about a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit regarding what you think you're tapping into, what you

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<v Speaker 1>think you're offering into the Tolkien community and beyond. But

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, before we do that, I mean, just like

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to introduce yourself a little bit, tell us

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about who you are, and as much

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<v Speaker 1>as you want to share about that and what got

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<v Speaker 1>you connected with Tolkien to begin with.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, Yeah, I mean I grew up loving The Lord

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<v Speaker 2>of the Rings. It was something that definitely captivated my

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<v Speaker 2>young Christian childhood.

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<v Speaker 3>I wasn't allowed to watch Harry Potter, you know, my

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<v Speaker 3>mom got the gout.

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<v Speaker 2>The memo like a lot of the other moms did

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<v Speaker 2>that that was out of the question.

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<v Speaker 3>So Lord of the Rings was kind of my fantasy.

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<v Speaker 2>And I also really liked Start Wars as well, but

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<v Speaker 2>definitely Lord of the Rings kind of captivated my childhood

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<v Speaker 2>heart in a way that.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of things just don't.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm not like a big fantasy person either, if

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<v Speaker 2>you I've said this before on podcasts and on my

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<v Speaker 2>Twitter before.

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<v Speaker 3>I love Tolkien, I love C. S.

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<v Speaker 2>Lewis, I love good literature, but I don't I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>going to read The Witcher just to check it out,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, I don't care about other stuff. I

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<v Speaker 2>really like what is the philosophical underpinnings of good stories,

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<v Speaker 2>and I like to explore those, But other as far

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<v Speaker 2>as fantasy for fans saying fantasy for fanities the sake,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's not my thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And then as I got older, I kind of let

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<v Speaker 2>go of that a little bit. I started to started

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<v Speaker 2>to be this projection of what I thought was a

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<v Speaker 2>cool person, you know. And I spent a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>my younger years being or trying to be this person

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<v Speaker 2>that I thought was cool but that I was supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to be.

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<v Speaker 3>And then I got married. And then when you get married,

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<v Speaker 3>you kind.

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<v Speaker 2>Of I feel like, when you are constantly having an

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<v Speaker 2>interaction with another person at all times twenty four to seven, it.

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<v Speaker 3>Actually breaks down a lot of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Like those disingenuous parts of yourself, and you actually kind

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<v Speaker 2>of get back in touch with the things a part

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<v Speaker 2>of like the parts of you that are real. So

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<v Speaker 2>I really paired with that, paired with getting married, starting.

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<v Speaker 3>To really think about what I believe in.

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<v Speaker 2>Why getting back into my faith in a different way

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<v Speaker 2>than I wasn't before, it helped me fall in love,

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<v Speaker 2>fall back in love with a lot of these things

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<v Speaker 2>that I love as a child, you know. So I

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<v Speaker 2>got really back in the Lord of the Rings, and

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<v Speaker 2>I really loved how Lord of the Rings and getting

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<v Speaker 2>back into it was walking alongside my faith journey. And

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<v Speaker 2>Tolkien talks a lot about that and on fairy stories

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<v Speaker 2>and how good fantasy done well can aid the religious person,

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<v Speaker 2>and I felt that actually happening in my life and

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<v Speaker 2>it was something that I wanted to share with the world.

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<v Speaker 2>I was very active on Twitter a prior to me

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<v Speaker 2>doing this whole Lord of the Rings podcast thing because

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<v Speaker 2>I worked. I worked in political PR, so it was

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<v Speaker 2>very active on as you can well imagine with it's

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<v Speaker 2>you get that with me, you know, that's that's never

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<v Speaker 2>going to be something that I don't bring to the

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<v Speaker 2>table because it's it's my thing. But I worked in

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<v Speaker 2>political PR and I had this active Twitter page and

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<v Speaker 2>I remember I was on a hype with one of

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<v Speaker 2>my friends one time. It was this place kind of

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<v Speaker 2>on DC. It's a good hyping spot, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>just talking about the Nascolt and the origins and how

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<v Speaker 2>they came into.

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<v Speaker 1>Being right and as one does on a hike, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>As one does.

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<v Speaker 2>And my friends, he's he's great. He's always like, very

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<v Speaker 2>encouraging with people's dreams and stuff, and he goes, you know, man,

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<v Speaker 2>I would uh, I would totally listen to hours of

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<v Speaker 2>you doing this, And I mean he was he was streight,

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<v Speaker 2>he had no choice, right, And we were on a

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<v Speaker 2>hike roub on a mount and.

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<v Speaker 3>He can't escape me. So I'm just I'm just talking

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<v Speaker 3>about Lord of the Ring stuff, but I can tell

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<v Speaker 3>he meant it. And I was like, man, you know

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<v Speaker 3>what if I did what if I did start something?

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what kind of got the ball rolling. I

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<v Speaker 2>started doing threads and then a couple of my threads kind.

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<v Speaker 3>Of blew up.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, and then it encouraged me to buy this

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<v Speaker 2>any mic and get started.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It really is a liberating experience when you just

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<v Speaker 1>recognize that I can just do stuff that I want

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<v Speaker 1>to do.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was.

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<v Speaker 2>There's actually a great meaning that's like people and using

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<v Speaker 2>it for Trump and running for president president lately.

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<v Speaker 3>But it didn't start with that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just you can just do things and then it'll

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<v Speaker 2>be a picture of somebody doing something crazy. I'm like, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's true. You can just get up in the morning

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<v Speaker 2>and just do things you start.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was really just kind of liberating. And that

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<v Speaker 1>was that idea that really launched a lot of my

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<v Speaker 1>independent stuff. You know, like I just want to teach

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<v Speaker 1>what I want to teach. So I started making some

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<v Speaker 1>independent classes and now I've got a new career.

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<v Speaker 3>It's it's amable it's incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Uh so uh we'll come back around to some

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<v Speaker 1>of the like the Tolkien and politics and you know

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<v Speaker 1>that whole deal. But you said that when you were younger,

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<v Speaker 1>Lord of the Rings really captured your imagination. So were

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<v Speaker 1>you a reader? Was this movies?

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<v Speaker 2>Like?

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<v Speaker 1>What did that look like?

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<v Speaker 2>It's well, it started off with just the movies, I

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<v Speaker 2>think again, it was like that thing that movie came

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<v Speaker 2>out that I was allowed to watch, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>interesting because I think I was it was nine or ten,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was up late.

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<v Speaker 3>My family was all in bed, and I was watching

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<v Speaker 3>TV and I.

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<v Speaker 2>The Fellowship of the Rings on FX and I was

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<v Speaker 2>just watching it and I remember I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>kids are talking about this at school. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>like a Harry Potter movie or something. And I turned

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<v Speaker 2>it on and I was immediately just gripped. It was

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<v Speaker 2>like it was like there was an empty socket that

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<v Speaker 2>plugged into my brain. And I remember when they got

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<v Speaker 2>to Ribbondal in the movie, I thought the movie was

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<v Speaker 2>over and I.

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<v Speaker 3>Was sad the background that's happening right now. I thought

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<v Speaker 3>that was the end of the movie, and I was like, man,

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<v Speaker 3>that's a bummer.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about to be over and little did I know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just a whole new adventure just kind of kicked off.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's what That's what started it. And then I

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<v Speaker 2>became hooked and I started consuming everything, and then I

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<v Speaker 2>would I would sit and make my family, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>sit down and listen to me talk about the lore,

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<v Speaker 2>and bought all the video games.

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<v Speaker 3>So I really got into it. And then.

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<v Speaker 2>When I got more, when I went to college again,

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<v Speaker 2>that's when I started getting back into reading, but not

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<v Speaker 2>still not being quite as into it as I am now. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, it's been a it's been a long journey

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<v Speaker 2>to get to this point.

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<v Speaker 1>See that's fantastic, and I'm always kind of envious when

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<v Speaker 1>I talk to people who had who were really captivated

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<v Speaker 1>by Polking everything he represents early on in life. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not really something I discovered until actually like a few

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<v Speaker 1>years ago. Really, I just wasn't kid well. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I saw the movies and I enjoyed them, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I played some of the games here and there, but

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<v Speaker 1>like it just it didn't hook me up on a

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<v Speaker 1>deep life altering kind of level. It was still in

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<v Speaker 1>the level like entertainment. Not like this is true, this

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<v Speaker 1>is who I am now.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, you know what it was too, It was it

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't to me.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't just a movie because I remember it was spiritual.

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<v Speaker 3>Like I grew up Christian, still Christian and.

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<v Speaker 2>Very much a church going mother, and I would make

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<v Speaker 2>all of my family sit down, and when we get

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<v Speaker 2>to Gandalf and the Power Rog, I would stand up

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<v Speaker 2>and I would pause it, and I'd be.

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<v Speaker 3>Like, Okay, this is like spiritual warfare. He's taking authority

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<v Speaker 3>over like the demon, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm sitting there and I'm explaining this to like

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<v Speaker 2>my grandfather or my dad who's like doesn't doesn't.

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<v Speaker 3>Care and doesn't understand, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>But even then I would stand up and kind of

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<v Speaker 2>do these grandios, this is the most important movie ever made,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Like.

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<v Speaker 3>That's that's how I was as a kid. So it

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<v Speaker 3>definitely captured my imagination.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's great. Yeah, it really wasn't even until I

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<v Speaker 1>was in the midst of my doctoral dissertation when I

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<v Speaker 1>finally discovered the literature for the first time. Really, and

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<v Speaker 1>it really did start with Tolkien. And yeah, saying that,

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<v Speaker 1>it really wasn't until I was in the midst of

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<v Speaker 1>my doctoral dissertation, like a few years ago, when suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>I like finally discovered literature for the first time and

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<v Speaker 1>recognize that, yeah, because I mean, growing up, I would

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of felt like, Okay, if I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>read a book, you know, I want to learn something,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that means nonfiction, right, And so it's like

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't really even understand. I guess I was so

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<v Speaker 1>inundated with sort of this modern understanding of what constitutes

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<v Speaker 1>truth that I kind of miss the real value of

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<v Speaker 1>literature until finally just the right influences came at me

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<v Speaker 1>in the right way, you know, dealing with some personal

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<v Speaker 1>losses philosophically, I'm starting to, you know, get in touch

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<v Speaker 1>with people like you know, Jordan Peterson, who does a

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<v Speaker 1>lot with fairy tales and literature and so like, things

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<v Speaker 1>just starting to open up for me. Finally drawn in

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<v Speaker 1>by largely talking Twitter that community, I finally pick up

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<v Speaker 1>The Fellowship, and just from the first chapter, the whole

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<v Speaker 1>trajectory of my life really changed from that point forward.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Now, if you if you read it right and

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<v Speaker 3>if you read it with like.

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<v Speaker 2>The right mindset, you know, Lord of the Rings were

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<v Speaker 2>really make you into a different person.

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<v Speaker 3>And obviously it's not that might sound silly.

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<v Speaker 2>It's obviously it's not the Gospel, but I really do

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<v Speaker 2>feel like God has blessed Lord of the Rings, the books.

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<v Speaker 3>And the movies.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the themes in it really walk alongside your faith.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's really what gets me so excited about it,

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<v Speaker 2>because I think it actually truly does help people get

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<v Speaker 2>in touch with the simple and the beautiful, but not simple,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, in a haughty way, like a like

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<v Speaker 2>a high and haughty person might call something simple, just

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<v Speaker 2>the simple things that are right in front of your

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<v Speaker 2>face that we kind of take for granted as simple.

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<v Speaker 3>Right. I find myself looking.

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<v Speaker 2>At trees now and I was never a nature or

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<v Speaker 2>a plant person, and now I totally am like, all,

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<v Speaker 2>look in my wife and be like, with this flower,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't that amazing? And She's like, yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Guess, yeah, yeah, I've had many experiences like that. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, like you're saying, it's simple in the sense

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<v Speaker 1>that you know, when I'm reading Lord of the Rings,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not like I'm like learning something new theologically or

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<v Speaker 1>philosophically that I didn't know before, but I'm encountering it

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<v Speaker 1>in almost more of an incarnate kind of way, more

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<v Speaker 1>of a concrete way, a way that provides not just

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<v Speaker 1>you know, intellectual edification, but it's something like existential consolation,

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<v Speaker 1>which is exactly what Polki talks about, right that escape

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<v Speaker 1>and recovery.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that there's something what's so great about

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<v Speaker 2>it is that there is something new that you see

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<v Speaker 2>almost every time you read it.

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<v Speaker 3>There's treasure on every page.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is kind of the debate that I like

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<v Speaker 2>to have with with people know about other stories. I

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<v Speaker 2>use Game of Thrones just because I kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>to troll people a little bit. It's it's fun. Camrons

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<v Speaker 2>is fun, you know. But Tolkien really is about less

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<v Speaker 2>about the destruction of the Ring, less about the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the embarking of the foulship.

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<v Speaker 3>It's all those are all facets of.

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<v Speaker 2>It that make it a great story. But the real

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<v Speaker 2>treasures are these small sentences that you see randomly, just

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<v Speaker 2>sprinkled throughout where it hits you, like a grain of

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<v Speaker 2>transcendent and transit transcendent, transcendent wisdom.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>That you just go wow, Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my

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<v Speaker 1>Lord of the Rings books are all marked up and underlined,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know it's me. It's it's as profound as

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<v Speaker 1>any any classic work of philosophy or theology. Maybe not any,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's definitely up there. There's just so much wisdom

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<v Speaker 1>that comes out, and I think that, Well, let me

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<v Speaker 1>just ask you, why do you think that Tolkien was

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<v Speaker 1>able to make such art where so many Christians just

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<v Speaker 1>come out, you know, writing something so shallow, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>your your pure flix whatever, Like, why do you think

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<v Speaker 1>Tolkien was able to communicate such wisdom so poignantly and

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<v Speaker 1>so authentically.

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<v Speaker 3>I think one of the reasons you just said authentic.

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<v Speaker 2>Truly bearing one soul on a page and not being

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<v Speaker 2>concerned about how it's received.

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<v Speaker 3>From what we know about.

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<v Speaker 2>Tolkien, right, he was very stubborn about what was included

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<v Speaker 2>in there, and he had a lot of people trying

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<v Speaker 2>to tell him to make edits that he didn't want

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<v Speaker 2>to make, and try to take things out that they

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00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:48.679
<v Speaker 2>maybe felt was not entertaining or that would kind of

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00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:52.720
<v Speaker 2>make the book a little bit of a slog. But

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00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Tolkien was authentic and really truly felt the things that

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<v Speaker 2>he was writing. And I'm not saying that you have

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00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.679
<v Speaker 2>to have a tragic life to really produce works of art, but.

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<v Speaker 3>It really.

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00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.159
<v Speaker 2>It certainly helps, and he really went through a lot

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00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:14.519
<v Speaker 2>of pain in his in his life. It's there's that

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<v Speaker 2>famous interview where the guy asks him, well, what is

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<v Speaker 2>the Lord of the Rings about at the end of

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00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.000
<v Speaker 2>the day, and he says death, And I think that's

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00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.799
<v Speaker 2>it's less about death for death's sake, It's less about

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00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.840
<v Speaker 2>death as it is. When he says death, I think

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00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:35.960
<v Speaker 2>he means like the human experience. And when you you

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<v Speaker 2>have your.

316
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.360
<v Speaker 3>Mother die at such a young age you could put

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<v Speaker 3>into a home.

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<v Speaker 2>Your father died when you were so young that you

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00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:49.240
<v Speaker 2>have pretty much no memory of him. It's and then

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00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:51.399
<v Speaker 2>you you get sent off to World War One and

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00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:53.600
<v Speaker 2>you're in the you're in the trenches of World War One.

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<v Speaker 3>It's It can really.

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<v Speaker 2>Give someone who has the mind for it the ability

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00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:04.680
<v Speaker 2>to write something so beautiful that we can all relate

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<v Speaker 2>to because it's it's real. And I also do believe

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00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:12.319
<v Speaker 2>that it was I believe it was blessed. I do again,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not scripture, but I do believe it was blessed.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that he was tapped into something. I

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00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:21.359
<v Speaker 2>think that he was tapped into the Holy Spirit.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the C. S.

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00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:26.200
<v Speaker 2>Lewis was you know, I read those works and I

332
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.799
<v Speaker 2>moved in ways that other things just don't. So it's

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00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.119
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of different reasons that I would say

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00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.440
<v Speaker 2>it's successful, but definitely all the things that I just named.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think that in the midst of that

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00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:47.000
<v Speaker 1>authenticity simply writing out of his soul, that he doesn't

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00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.480
<v Speaker 1>begin with, Okay, here's the ideology that I want to

338
00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:51.279
<v Speaker 1>put out there, right, He just he writes a story,

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00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:53.359
<v Speaker 1>and the story is true because it's coming from somebody

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00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.720
<v Speaker 1>who's grounded in the truth. And so I think that's

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00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.759
<v Speaker 1>one thing that makes it so real. And then you

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00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:03.039
<v Speaker 1>talked about him writing out of sorrow, and that's really

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<v Speaker 1>the theme that gripped me the most my first reading

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<v Speaker 1>of Tolkien. It probably still does, the way that he

345
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:13.519
<v Speaker 1>interweaves sorrow with hope and meaning and joy. You know

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00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.599
<v Speaker 1>that there's that great line from hall Deer about how

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00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:20.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, although you know love is now mingled with sorrow,

348
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:22.799
<v Speaker 1>you know, perhaps it grows even the greater because of it.

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00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Or one of my all time favorite lines from Tolkien

350
00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.599
<v Speaker 1>comes from the Similarillion when he says, you know, if

351
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:30.920
<v Speaker 1>joy full is the fountain that rises in the sun,

352
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.559
<v Speaker 1>it's wells are in sorrow unfathomed or the foundations of

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<v Speaker 1>the earth or something like that. It's this idea that,

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00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:43.759
<v Speaker 1>like life, joy and sorrow are not opposing realities, but that,

355
00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.440
<v Speaker 1>especially in the Christian framework, they necessarily go together. Right.

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00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the center of our faith is the crucified Messiah.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think that that ongoing theme, the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that all joy is rooted in sorrow, but also all

359
00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:59.920
<v Speaker 1>sorrow is transmuted into joy. It's just such a beautiful pig.

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00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:01.880
<v Speaker 1>Sure of I think that the way that things are

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00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:05.240
<v Speaker 1>of Christian theology, but it's so authentic in the way

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00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:06.640
<v Speaker 1>that it comes out from his pen.

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00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.039
<v Speaker 2>And another thing, another thing about it too, is that

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00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.359
<v Speaker 2>it's like you said, he never he doesn't start it

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<v Speaker 2>with here's what I believe.

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<v Speaker 4>It was just something that he started writing because he

367
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<v Speaker 4>had he had these characters, he had he had languages,

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00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:31.359
<v Speaker 4>he had frameworks for stories that he wanted to write

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00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:35.799
<v Speaker 4>over a long period of time, and he just started

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<v Speaker 4>writing the story and the things that he believed were

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<v Speaker 4>despite anything placed into them.

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00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Not but not not shoehorn. They're never shoehorn. It was

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<v Speaker 2>just these are the transcendent, these are the truths that

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<v Speaker 2>govern my universe. These are the truths that governed the

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00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:01.799
<v Speaker 2>story that I'm writing now I'm gonna start writing, you know,

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00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:05.640
<v Speaker 2>And it wasn't like it was never something that had

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00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.000
<v Speaker 2>to be said, because you read it and it's just

378
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:10.359
<v Speaker 2>reflected to you in subtle ways.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I saw a clip going around. You may have

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00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:16.240
<v Speaker 1>seen it as well. When you know, interviewers asking him

381
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.960
<v Speaker 1>you you had worked out this whole world long before

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00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:24.920
<v Speaker 1>writing the Hobbit, you know why. The response was mm hmm, just.

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00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:29.000
<v Speaker 3>What I did incredible, like the giga Chad had.

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00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:35.759
<v Speaker 1>Just why not? I mean, it's just I think it

385
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.759
<v Speaker 1>really just speaks to Tolkien's I mean the fact that

386
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.240
<v Speaker 1>he can't be replicated in that, you know, his whole

387
00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:43.519
<v Speaker 1>world was born out of a desire to make sense

388
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.519
<v Speaker 1>have this language that he created, which you know you

389
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.960
<v Speaker 1>usually fantasy after him is going to go the other

390
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.400
<v Speaker 1>way around, where okay, well, shoehorn some languages in here.

391
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.759
<v Speaker 1>But no, it's I have this little just obsession something

392
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.359
<v Speaker 1>that interests me. I'm going to pursue it, and then

393
00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:59.240
<v Speaker 1>out of that we get the whole world.

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00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, it's it's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing, and

395
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:03.440
<v Speaker 3>it's not.

396
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.480
<v Speaker 2>It's as you said, it can't be replicated because it's

397
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:12.279
<v Speaker 2>just not People aren't like that typically.

398
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.799
<v Speaker 3>You know, that's what makes him so incredible.

399
00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:19.480
<v Speaker 2>It's like this was his this was his side, hobby,

400
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:23.200
<v Speaker 2>his side hustle, and he already was such an amazing

401
00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:26.880
<v Speaker 2>talented person. And then to just start this and then

402
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:29.079
<v Speaker 2>have that either thing that you're known for instead of

403
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.079
<v Speaker 2>all the work that you were doing at Oxford is

404
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:33.240
<v Speaker 2>just truly incredible. But there's people who don't even know

405
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:33.920
<v Speaker 2>he's a professor.

406
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I know, I know, it's crazy. And you know C. S.

407
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:43.839
<v Speaker 1>Lewis kind of talks about this that when you're like

408
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:50.160
<v Speaker 1>hyper engage, then fantasy, like writing fantasy even kind of

409
00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:51.880
<v Speaker 1>becomes a way of escape, and that now you can

410
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:53.839
<v Speaker 1>sort of play around with the things that you take

411
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.279
<v Speaker 1>really seriously during the day. And I think that one

412
00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:58.960
<v Speaker 1>thing that we tend to forget is that, you know,

413
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:00.839
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people who want to go out and

414
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.680
<v Speaker 1>write their fantasy novel, you know, they end up essentially

415
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:09.559
<v Speaker 1>becoming knockoffs, right, chief imitations. Because in order to write

416
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.880
<v Speaker 1>something like Tolkien did, to write something even like Lewis did,

417
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.400
<v Speaker 1>like you have to be engaged in the lagoss that

418
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.680
<v Speaker 1>makes for good stories, right, you have to be doing

419
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>that hard work. You know that if they weren't busy

420
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.720
<v Speaker 1>reading like the great works of Northern literature or whatever like,

421
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.079
<v Speaker 1>we would never get these products. And so you know,

422
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:29.599
<v Speaker 1>on one hand, you know, they're both geniuses in their

423
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:32.480
<v Speaker 1>own rights in that they were able to spin out

424
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:36.480
<v Speaker 1>these different stories different worlds, but also there were geniuses

425
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.079
<v Speaker 1>that were plugged into like the lagosts that goes beneath

426
00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:44.160
<v Speaker 1>all great stories, the kind of the spirit of truth,

427
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.599
<v Speaker 1>I guess, and that's something that you can't really just skip.

428
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.680
<v Speaker 2>And we'll also and this is where actually we're Tolkien

429
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:56.119
<v Speaker 2>to Lewis intersect with my part of part of a

430
00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:57.680
<v Speaker 2>candle be obsession is my.

431
00:22:57.759 --> 00:22:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Love for history too.

432
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.200
<v Speaker 2>And I love that the both of them loved history

433
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.799
<v Speaker 2>and in order to Token particularly set out to write

434
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.680
<v Speaker 2>a myth, right. He wanted to write a great myth,

435
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.599
<v Speaker 2>a myth that could sort of have been something that was,

436
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:19.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, pre authority in England, you know, like that

437
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.359
<v Speaker 2>that's what he was going for. And he was able

438
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:24.559
<v Speaker 2>to write a great myth because.

439
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:25.319
<v Speaker 3>He loved it so much.

440
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:28.160
<v Speaker 2>If you don't love myth, you can't really write one,

441
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, you can't write your own.

442
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.079
<v Speaker 3>But it's because that It's because him and Lewis both had.

443
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:38.160
<v Speaker 2>This respect for, you know, not seeing pre Christian myth

444
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:41.440
<v Speaker 2>as sort of this thing to not pay attention to

445
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.200
<v Speaker 2>and not appreciate some of the good some of the

446
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.880
<v Speaker 2>virtues that you can derive from those stories, because they

447
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.200
<v Speaker 2>chose to open their minds up to, like, what good

448
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:57.079
<v Speaker 2>can I receive from this story that is inherently flawed

449
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.880
<v Speaker 2>because it's not the truth.

450
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.799
<v Speaker 3>It's just a reflection the ultimate truth.

451
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.440
<v Speaker 2>The virtues that are good are just reflections of the

452
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:04.160
<v Speaker 2>ultimate truth.

453
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.559
<v Speaker 3>But it's okay for me to appreciate the good parts

454
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:07.880
<v Speaker 3>of them.

455
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.319
<v Speaker 2>And because they were open to that, which is the

456
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:13.240
<v Speaker 2>same kind of person I am, you know, I just

457
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.279
<v Speaker 2>I think that that really contributed to both of their

458
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.759
<v Speaker 2>abilities to like well and tell good stories.

459
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:24.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I often reference this line from Lewis's Perlandrum when

460
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.079
<v Speaker 1>he says that, you know, he finally discovered what mythology was.

461
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.759
<v Speaker 1>It was gleamed of celestial strength, falling on a jungle

462
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:33.160
<v Speaker 1>of perversion and imbecility, and it was like, there's good

463
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:35.759
<v Speaker 1>stuff there, even if you know it's all mixed up

464
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:37.839
<v Speaker 1>in some things that we need to kind of expricate

465
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.519
<v Speaker 1>it from and you know, bring it back into its

466
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:40.400
<v Speaker 1>proper contexts.

467
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.799
<v Speaker 2>Which yes, I see, I see you post a lot

468
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.839
<v Speaker 2>about the Space Trilogy. I love I love the Space Trilogy.

469
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean that's another thing I just like,

470
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.079
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years ago, I discovered it for the

471
00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.880
<v Speaker 1>first time, and that's another thing that became part of

472
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.519
<v Speaker 1>who I am moving forward. I can never look up

473
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:57.799
<v Speaker 1>at the stars the same way. Again, Well, it's really

474
00:24:57.799 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 1>funny to.

475
00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:00.559
<v Speaker 3>Tell people about it because they're like C. S.

476
00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Lewis wrote a Space trilogy kind of like yeah, but

477
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:04.359
<v Speaker 2>it's also kind of a fantasy.

478
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:06.400
<v Speaker 3>And you can read the third one as its own book.

479
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:08.039
<v Speaker 2>You don't even need to read the first two, but

480
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.559
<v Speaker 2>you should read the first two.

481
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:11.799
<v Speaker 1>Right, and then I mean you try to rise the

482
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.240
<v Speaker 1>plot and it's just absolutely insane, but it works.

483
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:15.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I think that there's.

484
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Like it's funny because there's a hard dividing line between

485
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:22.519
<v Speaker 2>people who really really like that hideous strength and people

486
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.920
<v Speaker 2>who really don't like it and just do not connect

487
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.680
<v Speaker 2>or understand it at all whatsoever.

488
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.880
<v Speaker 3>And I think one of the reasons why it resonated

489
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:32.599
<v Speaker 3>with me so much is because.

490
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:38.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, I worked in PR, so I one, I

491
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.799
<v Speaker 2>worked in PR, so I have this kind of resentment

492
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:48.799
<v Speaker 2>for the drawbacks of journalism and propaganda. And we know,

493
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:54.039
<v Speaker 2>like Mark gets used as a propagandist on behalf.

494
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:55.359
<v Speaker 3>Of the nice.

495
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:57.960
<v Speaker 2>But I also you know, I saw a lot of

496
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.400
<v Speaker 2>so I was in DC for a while, and I

497
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.160
<v Speaker 2>saw a lot of the worst parts of myself in

498
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Mark's character. It's just deep flawed desire to be seen

499
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:12.880
<v Speaker 2>as as smart and l liked by the end crowd

500
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:16.559
<v Speaker 2>of people that you think are important. So that book

501
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.480
<v Speaker 2>was a crazy journey for me. But anyway, it went off,

502
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:20.599
<v Speaker 2>it went off too too long.

503
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:23.400
<v Speaker 1>No, no, Yeah, I will say that that hideous strength

504
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.559
<v Speaker 1>did instantly click with me, and that you know, it

505
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:29.480
<v Speaker 1>begins with sort of you know, he's boring college meetings

506
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and progressive clicks that eventually you find are rooted in

507
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:35.039
<v Speaker 1>the depths of hell, which I mean that's my d

508
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 1>day life. Yeah, you're right in a you know, humanities department,

509
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:44.839
<v Speaker 1>So I definitely know how all that goes. But so,

510
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.240
<v Speaker 1>so back to to Tolkien. Uh, you know, we we've

511
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.519
<v Speaker 1>talked a lot about how what makes him so great

512
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.480
<v Speaker 1>is the fact that he's grinded it grounded in these eternal,

513
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:58.640
<v Speaker 1>transcendent realities. Now that being said, it seems pretty obvious

514
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:03.000
<v Speaker 1>that he has like a definitely a conservative grounding. And

515
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't just mean like modern American politics, but I

516
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.359
<v Speaker 1>mean that in the sense that he is latched onto

517
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.519
<v Speaker 1>enduring realities that are worth conserving with worth holding onto,

518
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:14.599
<v Speaker 1>or rather we need to let them hold onto us.

519
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.640
<v Speaker 3>I guess.

520
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:21.960
<v Speaker 1>So, why do you think that mainstream talkien community tends

521
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.000
<v Speaker 1>to be very left leaning? I mean talking society or wherever.

522
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:26.279
<v Speaker 1>What do you think is is?

523
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think I can tell you exactly why.

524
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.839
<v Speaker 2>I think that that's a phenomenon that we see a

525
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.720
<v Speaker 2>lot of. I think a lot of these people start

526
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:39.200
<v Speaker 2>off really kind of in the same name that we're in.

527
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.119
<v Speaker 3>I really don't know how you can't, like you don't

528
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:43.920
<v Speaker 3>start off that way.

529
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:49.039
<v Speaker 2>Not everyone, but most of them, most of these people

530
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:51.799
<v Speaker 2>who I won't call them sellouts.

531
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:51.359
<v Speaker 3>But.

532
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Really just kind of fall on the left side of

533
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:02.240
<v Speaker 2>interpreting Tolkien, I think they start off in a lane

534
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.480
<v Speaker 2>of probably a religious person, someone who comes from a

535
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.079
<v Speaker 2>religious background, someone.

536
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.880
<v Speaker 3>Who you know, really fell in love with Lord of

537
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.160
<v Speaker 3>the Rings growing up and then.

538
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:16.279
<v Speaker 2>They find themselves in the academic taking the academic route,

539
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:21.799
<v Speaker 2>particularly the people who self identify as Tolkien scholars. You know,

540
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:26.880
<v Speaker 2>they are in humanities you know, yeah, I don't have

541
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:31.000
<v Speaker 2>to tell you. They're in humanity circles, which are which

542
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:40.440
<v Speaker 2>skew far left across the board, no offense, because they

543
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.519
<v Speaker 2>want to be accepted in these circles, and they you know,

544
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:48.160
<v Speaker 2>they want they want funding for whatever they're doing, they

545
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.039
<v Speaker 2>want recognition, they want good jobs.

546
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.519
<v Speaker 3>I mean, Tolkien.

547
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:58.599
<v Speaker 2>Professor, who I don't I don't know Ory. I know

548
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.400
<v Speaker 2>it's done great work. So like, I'm not going to

549
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:04.880
<v Speaker 2>get on here and bash him. But you know, if

550
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:08.640
<v Speaker 2>I spent the amount of time in my life doing

551
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:13.000
<v Speaker 2>the stuff that Corey was doing, and now finally I'm

552
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:17.359
<v Speaker 2>I have, you know, a major corporation that is putting

553
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.559
<v Speaker 2>me in front of a camera and telling me to

554
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:21.759
<v Speaker 2>do interviews and make videos for them and paying me

555
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.240
<v Speaker 2>to show up at amazing events. You know, I understand

556
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:28.799
<v Speaker 2>why you would start kind of bending and breaking your

557
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.480
<v Speaker 2>views to kind of fit whatever they would want you

558
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:32.079
<v Speaker 2>to say.

559
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:33.440
<v Speaker 3>So again, I'm.

560
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Sure he's a great guy, and I'm not trying to

561
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:39.400
<v Speaker 2>bash him. I understand the desire. But I think that

562
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:42.119
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of the path that a lot of these

563
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.519
<v Speaker 2>people walk, is they really just want to be accepted

564
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:47.400
<v Speaker 2>in the intellectual circles that they're in. They want to

565
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.480
<v Speaker 2>be taken seriously. Now all of a sudden, you know,

566
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.880
<v Speaker 2>the rings of powers coming out, they're being taken very seriously.

567
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:55.880
<v Speaker 3>Because I think a lot of.

568
00:29:55.880 --> 00:30:00.640
<v Speaker 2>People who don't really know about fantasy think their fantasy.

569
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:05.160
<v Speaker 3>So they've spent a lot of their life, you know,

570
00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 3>feeling like people don't think something is really cool. Now

571
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:09.400
<v Speaker 3>of a sudden, it's really cool.

572
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.480
<v Speaker 2>So I think it's pretty simple, pretty pretty simple human interaction.

573
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.519
<v Speaker 3>And I don't hate them, but I definitely I go

574
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.359
<v Speaker 3>a little bit hard on them on Twitter.

575
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.000
<v Speaker 2>But at the end of the day, you know, it's

576
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:27.279
<v Speaker 2>it's just people being people.

577
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:30.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's a big mystery.

578
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I guess that, uh, that whole trajector

579
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.799
<v Speaker 1>usually out brings us right back to that hideous strength.

580
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.319
<v Speaker 1>I suppoose that's the smart study. Let's take it to

581
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:44.000
<v Speaker 1>the nice now with the telphones.

582
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:49.119
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, I was just gonna say society. They're like, I

583
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.200
<v Speaker 3>don't know how you know, whether they're getting their funding.

584
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.799
<v Speaker 2>From or what the what the donations thing looks like.

585
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:02.839
<v Speaker 2>But they're definitely all literature academics who are.

586
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:04.039
<v Speaker 3>Trying to.

587
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Kind of not just not offend anybody. And I actually

588
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.119
<v Speaker 2>can't even look at their stuff anymore because they.

589
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:13.680
<v Speaker 3>Have me blocked.

590
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've never really paid that much attention to them,

591
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:22.680
<v Speaker 1>but every once in a while I'll see like the

592
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.119
<v Speaker 1>lineup of the titles for their conferences, and it's just

593
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's just insane.

594
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's really it really is. Right.

595
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:32.400
<v Speaker 1>These people claim to be experts on Tolkien and the

596
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.599
<v Speaker 1>kinds of things that they come up with. And I

597
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.960
<v Speaker 1>think that this austog just speaks to academic culture in general,

598
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:40.640
<v Speaker 1>that if you're going to be if you're going to

599
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:43.880
<v Speaker 1>have a place in academic society, then you're push to

600
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:47.160
<v Speaker 1>constantly publish. In order to publish, you have to be innovative, right,

601
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:48.960
<v Speaker 1>you have to say something that hasn't been said before,

602
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.119
<v Speaker 1>And so there's this push of I have to always

603
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.799
<v Speaker 1>be original. But the putting originality at the forefront of

604
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 1>your academic drive is not a good way to land

605
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:02.720
<v Speaker 1>a good academic. It's not a way to pursue truth, right,

606
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a way to market yourself, which leads to all

607
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.960
<v Speaker 1>kinds of just absurdities. This obviously isn't relegated just to

608
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the Tolkien spheres. It's the problem that I have with

609
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:15.359
<v Speaker 1>academia in general is that it just pushes you to

610
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.079
<v Speaker 1>always be original, which is not the same thing as

611
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.920
<v Speaker 1>pushing you to be wise or to help other people

612
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:21.440
<v Speaker 1>be wise.

613
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Exactly exactly I was I was thinking about that. It's

614
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:31.079
<v Speaker 3>like the nobody wants to hear we already know what

615
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.160
<v Speaker 3>Lord of the Rings is about, right, we know where

616
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:34.000
<v Speaker 3>Tolkien stood.

617
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.920
<v Speaker 2>They don't lie and say that, oh, he would have

618
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.680
<v Speaker 2>been progressive on this, now he wouldn't know. We know

619
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:44.960
<v Speaker 2>what Lord of the Rings is, and we know that

620
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:54.000
<v Speaker 2>it's pushing these sort of you know, Christian Western virtue,

621
00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:57.839
<v Speaker 2>these Christian Western virtues, that's what that's what Lord of

622
00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.680
<v Speaker 2>the Rings is really propping up at the end of

623
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:03.039
<v Speaker 2>the day, And no one really wants to hear about

624
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:07.559
<v Speaker 2>that anywhere, not in the actually circles want to discuss

625
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.599
<v Speaker 2>this because to them, even if they're not openly hostile

626
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.039
<v Speaker 2>towards it, it's like we've heard this.

627
00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:16.519
<v Speaker 1>Before, right, It's always that desire of I want something new.

628
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:20.279
<v Speaker 1>It reminds me that line from Mythopeia where he talks about,

629
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, progressing into the void that you know, we're

630
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:27.759
<v Speaker 1>just constantly moving, but into nothingness because you know, a

631
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:29.680
<v Speaker 1>lot of times you see the same people who don't

632
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:32.079
<v Speaker 1>believe there is such a thing as you know, transcending

633
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:34.880
<v Speaker 1>eternal truth. And so at that point, like, what can

634
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:37.680
<v Speaker 1>you even progress toward if you don't have an endpoint

635
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:41.119
<v Speaker 1>in mind? There's nothing concrete, you know. It's like Lewis

636
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:43.960
<v Speaker 1>says that if you're trying to see through everything, then

637
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.799
<v Speaker 1>eventually you just don't see anything. That the purpose of

638
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:48.839
<v Speaker 1>a window to see something concrete on the other side.

639
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.039
<v Speaker 1>But if you don't think there is anything concrete, then

640
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:52.079
<v Speaker 1>what have you been doing?

641
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:53.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

642
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:58.079
<v Speaker 2>Or how you know Gandof's line about it being foolish

643
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:00.599
<v Speaker 2>to break something just so you can understand it better,

644
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:03.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's what they're That's what they're doing with

645
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Tolkien every day, a lot of them, not all of them,

646
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:10.599
<v Speaker 2>but you know they're they're doing this dissection of things

647
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>that shouldn't be looked at through through the lens that

648
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:14.639
<v Speaker 2>they're trying to see.

649
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 1>It right, right, And so again Alf says he likes

650
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:21.320
<v Speaker 1>White more right because it's this unifying reality. It's pointing

651
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.480
<v Speaker 1>us upwards, you know, on the other side of the

652
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:27.400
<v Speaker 1>prism to what actually is. I mean, you know there's

653
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.840
<v Speaker 1>that one letter where he says explicitly that the Lord

654
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:33.519
<v Speaker 1>of the Rings is not about freedom, it's about God's

655
00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:36.199
<v Speaker 1>soul right to divine honor. Yes, he says, like that's

656
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:36.719
<v Speaker 1>what it's about.

657
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then people like will log on and say

658
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:42.480
<v Speaker 2>that it's not it has nothing to do with religion,

659
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:42.960
<v Speaker 2>and like.

660
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.039
<v Speaker 1>Right, there is. But I guess that's when you have

661
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 1>to follow in like the death of the author idea.

662
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:51.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, he doesn't have authority over his own words

663
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:53.239
<v Speaker 1>or I don't know, it gets silly.

664
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:55.320
<v Speaker 2>No one's allowed to do that to Lord of the Rings.

665
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I can do it to other people's stuff, but no

666
00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:59.199
<v Speaker 2>one can do it to the Lord of the Rings.

667
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:05.679
<v Speaker 1>That's right now, I guess in line with politics ideology,

668
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:07.719
<v Speaker 1>And now I'm sure that one of the big criticis

669
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.239
<v Speaker 1>that you get is mixing Tolkien with politics right all

670
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the time. Dude, what's your response to that, whether you

671
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:15.719
<v Speaker 1>give it out loud or in your own head, Like,

672
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:16.960
<v Speaker 1>how do you respond to that?

673
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:18.159
<v Speaker 3>Well? I think it's.

674
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.440
<v Speaker 2>There are people who would tell you to read Lord

675
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:26.079
<v Speaker 2>of the Rings, read the Summarilien, read The Children of Hoorn,

676
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:30.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, read every read all of Tolkien's letters them,

677
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.119
<v Speaker 2>know them, memorize them.

678
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.679
<v Speaker 3>But don't you dare. Don't you dare.

679
00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Learn anything about how he felt about the world he

680
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:49.559
<v Speaker 2>was living in, and about maybe how the themes that

681
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.679
<v Speaker 2>he reflects in Lord of the Rings might make you

682
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.559
<v Speaker 2>feel about things that are happening in our world today.

683
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.440
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely not, don't do that. That's a no no now. I

684
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:00.000
<v Speaker 3>think it's.

685
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:08.119
<v Speaker 2>To me, it's absolutely ridiculous to take something as substantial

686
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:12.360
<v Speaker 2>as Lord of the Rings, where constant themes are being

687
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:17.440
<v Speaker 2>reflected at you on every page, beautiful things. I mean,

688
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:22.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm just thinking now. One of my favorite lines from

689
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:29.519
<v Speaker 2>Tolkien is where he talks about digging up the evil

690
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:31.679
<v Speaker 2>out of the fields that you know, so that those

691
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:34.960
<v Speaker 2>who come after can have clean earth to pill. Like

692
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:38.880
<v Speaker 2>even that statement in and of itself was like, it's

693
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:42.320
<v Speaker 2>differentiating between good and evil and telling you that you

694
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.119
<v Speaker 2>don't have to go out and do anything crazy, go

695
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 2>out into your community and uproot evil in the fields

696
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:51.159
<v Speaker 2>that you know. That in and of itself is a

697
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:55.039
<v Speaker 2>problematic statement if you just have sort of this subjective

698
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.440
<v Speaker 2>approach towards morality in general. So I don't underst stand

699
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:03.639
<v Speaker 2>people because I'm just not that person. I don't understand

700
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:09.519
<v Speaker 2>people who can consume content and not analyze the morality

701
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:12.159
<v Speaker 2>and the themes that are being reflected back at you.

702
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:19.079
<v Speaker 3>I can know that something is not good.

703
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.400
<v Speaker 2>I can know that something doesn't necessarily have a good message,

704
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:25.639
<v Speaker 2>and I can turn that part of my brain off

705
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:28.119
<v Speaker 2>and still take something in and enjoy it.

706
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:30.159
<v Speaker 3>But I still know.

707
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:33.800
<v Speaker 2>I still know what values are being projected at me,

708
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:36.599
<v Speaker 2>and when I read Go to the Rings, I'm not

709
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.960
<v Speaker 2>turning that switch off. I know what values are being

710
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.360
<v Speaker 2>projected at me. I love those values, and I want

711
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:46.159
<v Speaker 2>to share them with others because that's the type of

712
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:49.800
<v Speaker 2>personality that I am. And if you want to be inauthentic,

713
00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:54.280
<v Speaker 2>that's fine, that's up to you. But you need to

714
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.440
<v Speaker 2>admit that you are actually turning a part of your

715
00:37:56.519 --> 00:38:00.159
<v Speaker 2>brain off when you choose to read things in that way,

716
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:08.880
<v Speaker 2>and that's just not the sunthin person I am.

717
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:12.360
<v Speaker 1>The Mythic Mind Fellowship presents a new study led by

718
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.960
<v Speaker 1>doctor Andrew Snyder, the Wisdom of Middle Earth, the Lord

719
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.800
<v Speaker 1>of the Rings. This will be the first study in

720
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:21.280
<v Speaker 1>the Wisdom of Middle Earth series, which seeks to bring

721
00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:24.199
<v Speaker 1>an array of companions together with a common desire of

722
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:27.079
<v Speaker 1>growing in wisdom while enjoying the heartening tales of the

723
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:29.360
<v Speaker 1>great tale weaver J. R. R.

724
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.880
<v Speaker 3>Tolkien.

725
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.679
<v Speaker 1>The Lord of the Rings is a profound tale that

726
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:36.079
<v Speaker 1>has literally changed lives, as it has for mine. And

727
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.800
<v Speaker 1>what is it that makes this story so powerful and

728
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:45.199
<v Speaker 1>so compelling? It is because Tolkien's stories are fundamentally true,

729
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:48.079
<v Speaker 1>and those who engage with it know exactly what I mean.

730
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:51.440
<v Speaker 1>They speak to the way that things are. As Peter

731
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Crest said in The Philosophy of Tolkien, the Lord of

732
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the Rings is infused with the same light that illumined

733
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.079
<v Speaker 1>the man who wrote it. And that light is true,

734
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:03.159
<v Speaker 1>for it reveals the reality of the world and life.

735
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:06.440
<v Speaker 1>So join us on this adventure. Let us grow and

736
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.559
<v Speaker 1>wisdom together through immersion in this tale, not through cheap algorizing,

737
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:13.760
<v Speaker 1>but by getting a better understanding of the ideas and

738
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:16.320
<v Speaker 1>the movements of the heart that bring a tale such

739
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.559
<v Speaker 1>as this to life. This twelve week study will begin

740
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.920
<v Speaker 1>with Tolkien's creation account, the Iwindulay, and then move to

741
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.519
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring. Each week

742
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:27.760
<v Speaker 1>will include assigned reading from The Lord of the Rings,

743
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.760
<v Speaker 1>a short side lesson in the beginning of the week

744
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 1>that addresses a relevant theme, background story, or secondary text,

745
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:35.800
<v Speaker 1>and then once you've had some time to do the reading,

746
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:37.960
<v Speaker 1>there will be a longer video that serves as a

747
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:40.719
<v Speaker 1>guide in these forests of wisdom. Also, we will have

748
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:44.719
<v Speaker 1>additional recommended readings, an active discord channel, and weekly live

749
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.400
<v Speaker 1>meetings which will be recorded in case you cannot attend.

750
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.639
<v Speaker 1>Whether you are reading The Lord of the Rings for

751
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:52.920
<v Speaker 1>the first time or the eleveny first time, I invite

752
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:56.039
<v Speaker 1>you to join our company. Prices are currently as low

753
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:57.760
<v Speaker 1>as they ever have been, and they are as low

754
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:00.000
<v Speaker 1>as they ever will be, So go ahead and join

755
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>today at Andrew Schnyder dot padia dot com, and I

756
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:21.760
<v Speaker 1>hope to see you on this road that goes ever on. Yeah,

757
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.960
<v Speaker 1>And the reality is that anybody, whether they have high

758
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.840
<v Speaker 1>profile or not, anybody who's commenting on Tolkien or anything,

759
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.840
<v Speaker 1>really they're projecting some ideology at play here.

760
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:32.079
<v Speaker 3>Right.

761
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:34.719
<v Speaker 1>The question is, you know, is it actually befitting of

762
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.840
<v Speaker 1>the subject that they're dealing with. But there's no way

763
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.199
<v Speaker 1>to escape it, and so all of these claims of

764
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:44.920
<v Speaker 1>like radical subjectivity or you know, you can't take anything

765
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:48.159
<v Speaker 1>from anything and apply to something else, Like it's always

766
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:51.960
<v Speaker 1>such an inconsistent critique. You know. It's like at you know,

767
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.039
<v Speaker 1>my university classes. You know, pretty much all my students

768
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:58.480
<v Speaker 1>will tell me there's no such thing as truth, there's

769
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:01.159
<v Speaker 1>no such thing as morality. Everything just opinions, all made up.

770
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 1>And then I ask them, you know, how many of

771
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.480
<v Speaker 1>you are intending to vote in the next election, and

772
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:08.480
<v Speaker 1>most of them raise their hand. It's like, do you

773
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:12.000
<v Speaker 1>not see any inconsistency here that you're going to go from?

774
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Literally like the same day, you can tell me that

775
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:19.039
<v Speaker 1>the worst thing you can do is to impose values

776
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.199
<v Speaker 1>on somebody else, and then you need to go vote

777
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.360
<v Speaker 1>on which values you can impose in your neighbors, Like

778
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:26.039
<v Speaker 1>do you not see the inconsistency there? Or you know,

779
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:29.320
<v Speaker 1>even the fact that you're arguing for anything whatsoever, even

780
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.239
<v Speaker 1>that there is no truth or you know, everything subjective

781
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:35.320
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to apply a truth claim to me in

782
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:39.199
<v Speaker 1>that very statement, And so pretty much all these critiques

783
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.400
<v Speaker 1>just sort of fall apart into absurdity.

784
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:43.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And.

785
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean I do understand some of the criticism, right,

786
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:54.800
<v Speaker 2>because I get very upset when people try to deconstruct

787
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.519
<v Speaker 2>Tolkien or say that he would have had views that

788
00:41:57.559 --> 00:41:59.920
<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't have had, or say that.

789
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.440
<v Speaker 3>You know this this you're doing.

790
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:05.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, just just an example, like the people who

791
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:06.800
<v Speaker 2>do queer readings of The Lord of the Rings.

792
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:07.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean, like.

793
00:42:11.079 --> 00:42:12.639
<v Speaker 2>They do that and then they write about it, and

794
00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:15.920
<v Speaker 2>then they make these arguments for you know what this means,

795
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:18.480
<v Speaker 2>and what that means, and what Tolpien really like may

796
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:22.440
<v Speaker 2>have meant, you know, about a specific interaction between two characters,

797
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.519
<v Speaker 2>and it's like that drives me nuts. So if someone

798
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.920
<v Speaker 2>has sort of a leftist point of view and they

799
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:34.119
<v Speaker 2>see me extracting and speaking on behalf of Tolpien in

800
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:36.039
<v Speaker 2>ways that they don't think that he would have agreed with.

801
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:38.480
<v Speaker 3>I do understand some level of outrage there.

802
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:41.719
<v Speaker 2>The difference is, however, is that I'm right now, I'm

803
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:44.800
<v Speaker 2>just kidding. I mean, I am, but like I'm not,

804
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:49.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm just kidding now. I understand why people would would

805
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:51.599
<v Speaker 2>kind of get upset about.

806
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:52.360
<v Speaker 3>That, But I just.

807
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Really, I mean, we know Tolkien, and we know what

808
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:03.599
<v Speaker 2>is posicians were, and we know not on policy, but

809
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:05.840
<v Speaker 2>we know where he stood, so you can extract some

810
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:07.960
<v Speaker 2>level of confidence on how he might have felt on

811
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:09.199
<v Speaker 2>certain issues today.

812
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.480
<v Speaker 3>But you know that's not the point.

813
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.000
<v Speaker 2>It is like when I say, when I say something

814
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:20.159
<v Speaker 2>political on Twitter, that's coming from me. You know, I'm

815
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:22.280
<v Speaker 2>not saying Tolkien would have agreed with this. It's just

816
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:26.159
<v Speaker 2>because again that was that was my first love politics.

817
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:27.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's what I used to work in. I

818
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.639
<v Speaker 2>don't work in it anymore because it's it's not I

819
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:34.159
<v Speaker 2>don't recommend anyone work in politics, but that's what you're

820
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:38.159
<v Speaker 2>going to get because that's just reflected and who I am.

821
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.119
<v Speaker 2>And I think you know, you talk about my page

822
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:46.519
<v Speaker 2>resonating with people. I appreciate you saying that. I think

823
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:50.440
<v Speaker 2>that my page does resonate with people because people are

824
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:54.480
<v Speaker 2>looking for more authenticity in their lives. And I'm not

825
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:56.480
<v Speaker 2>saying I'm the most authentic person in the world. But

826
00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:00.119
<v Speaker 2>if you look at a lot of the Tolkien accounts

827
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:03.760
<v Speaker 2>or Tolkien channels, a lot of them make great stuff.

828
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:07.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Nerd of the Rings, he's amazing. So I'm

829
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 2>not attacking him or like Men of the West or

830
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:12.480
<v Speaker 2>anybody like that, but they keep it strictly Lord of

831
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:14.320
<v Speaker 2>the Rings, which is good because that's all they're trying

832
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:17.599
<v Speaker 2>to do. But sometimes people like to see a little

833
00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:21.559
<v Speaker 2>bit of the self leak in, you know, and see

834
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.400
<v Speaker 2>see where you stand on stuff and how you feel

835
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:25.039
<v Speaker 2>about things.

836
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:27.480
<v Speaker 3>And people like that because everything.

837
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:29.760
<v Speaker 2>Now is so man we live in the social media

838
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:33.760
<v Speaker 2>age where everything is so manufactured. People have ai that

839
00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:35.639
<v Speaker 2>are making posts for them now, you know, on a

840
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:41.679
<v Speaker 2>regular basis. So when you get someone who is really

841
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:45.840
<v Speaker 2>just being kind of vulnerable every day, people like that.

842
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:50.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think that's a good point. That people want

843
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:56.639
<v Speaker 1>to connect with people and not just platforms exactly right,

844
00:44:56.719 --> 00:44:59.719
<v Speaker 1>and people obviously engage in the world into Yeah, I

845
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:01.880
<v Speaker 1>think that is something that you definitely bring to the

846
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:05.280
<v Speaker 1>table as well as you know, ratioing President of the

847
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:08.239
<v Speaker 1>United States or whoever else, which is all good fun.

848
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:13.199
<v Speaker 1>We had a good time, Yeah, Yeah, it's and I

849
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:16.920
<v Speaker 1>think that speaks to something that it's good just to

850
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:19.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of have fun even when you're dealing with serious things.

851
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:21.880
<v Speaker 1>I think that speaks a lot of people as well.

852
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:26.559
<v Speaker 1>So other than Lord of the Rings, I mean, what

853
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:31.199
<v Speaker 1>is your favorite Tolkien story, my favorite token story.

854
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's difficult because it kind of changes all

855
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:34.800
<v Speaker 3>the time.

856
00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:41.480
<v Speaker 2>My background favorite, you know that kind of transcends all

857
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:44.360
<v Speaker 2>the other favorites, is obviously gand Offs.

858
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:47.360
<v Speaker 3>Just the entire exchange between and Off and the Bow Rock.

859
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Everything that makes it so significant, all of the background

860
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:56.639
<v Speaker 2>information and lore that goes into that exchange, the words

861
00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:00.440
<v Speaker 2>that get Off speaks, the way that the Bower Rock acts,

862
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:05.119
<v Speaker 2>the impending battle, the underground fights, the chase up to

863
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:11.000
<v Speaker 2>the peak, and Gandalf's you know, death and then coming

864
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:14.079
<v Speaker 2>back like it's all. It's all such a significant sequence

865
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:18.159
<v Speaker 2>that I think really captures how deep Lord of the

866
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Rings is in one exchange, and it's really one of

867
00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:26.320
<v Speaker 2>the pathways that I really like to use to engage

868
00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:29.440
<v Speaker 2>with other people because everyone knows you shall not pass,

869
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:31.760
<v Speaker 2>you know. It's like it's the most iconic scene in

870
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Lord of the Rings, everyone references in pop culture.

871
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:41.159
<v Speaker 3>So it's also a great catalyst for having these more deeper,

872
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:45.320
<v Speaker 3>like spiritual and philosophical discussions about Lord of the Rings.

873
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Because you get to look at something and be like, hey,

874
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:51.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's a great scene, right, yeah, and Off

875
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:53.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of fighting this monster, right, that's cool.

876
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.599
<v Speaker 3>But also, let me tell.

877
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.800
<v Speaker 2>You about the spiritual significance about what's happening in this exchange,

878
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:03.239
<v Speaker 2>because when you know that, that makes it so much cooler.

879
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:07.920
<v Speaker 3>So that's kind of like my background favorite story. However,

880
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:10.400
<v Speaker 3>right now, my favorite story is.

881
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I really love oh I also love when Finn Golden

882
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:18.079
<v Speaker 2>fights Morgoth.

883
00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:21.519
<v Speaker 3>That's another story, but that's everybody loves that.

884
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:28.480
<v Speaker 2>I really love when Sam is in Mordor with Frodo,

885
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:31.079
<v Speaker 2>when Frodo is passed out and they're at their lowest

886
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:35.239
<v Speaker 2>point of despair, and Sam looks up and he sees

887
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.719
<v Speaker 2>a star punching through and he has this kind of

888
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:43.400
<v Speaker 2>inner monologue where he thinks about how this this shadow

889
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:44.480
<v Speaker 2>is just a passing thing.

890
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:46.320
<v Speaker 3>That's what, That's what.

891
00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:49.360
<v Speaker 2>One of the quotes that gets loaded into the Two

892
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:57.679
<v Speaker 2>Tower speech, there's light that is so far out of

893
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:01.559
<v Speaker 2>the bounds and governance of evil, so beyond it that

894
00:48:02.119 --> 00:48:05.119
<v Speaker 2>it really just dwarfs it in comparison, like evil does

895
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:07.599
<v Speaker 2>not have the authority to even to even reach up

896
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:08.599
<v Speaker 2>and touch it.

897
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:13.440
<v Speaker 3>I love that quote. I love that sequence.

898
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:17.360
<v Speaker 2>I love that story, and I really like how it

899
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:19.079
<v Speaker 2>actually connects with I don't know if you've heard The.

900
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:21.800
<v Speaker 3>Children of Horn, but oh yeah.

901
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:26.599
<v Speaker 2>Horn has his exchange with more Goth where he kind

902
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:30.599
<v Speaker 2>of essentially says the same thing to him, like, after

903
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:34.599
<v Speaker 2>my after my soul exits the bounds of the world,

904
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:38.000
<v Speaker 2>you can't touch it, you can't touch me because there's

905
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:41.880
<v Speaker 2>goodness beyond that you have no authority or power over.

906
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:46.039
<v Speaker 3>And it's a great exchangeau Morgth.

907
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:49.719
<v Speaker 2>Essentially, it tries to lie and say that there's nothing

908
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.920
<v Speaker 2>out there, there's nothing for you to look forward to,

909
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:58.159
<v Speaker 2>and Horn rejects this, which is just I mean, only

910
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:01.800
<v Speaker 2>a spiritual exchange. I mean, there's we Those are the

911
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.159
<v Speaker 2>types of inner battles that we have on a regular basis.

912
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.199
<v Speaker 2>So I really I really like that one, and that's

913
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:13.199
<v Speaker 2>that's probably my current besides like the ones with real

914
00:49:13.239 --> 00:49:16.119
<v Speaker 2>staying power that never go anywhere. That's that's my uh

915
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:17.440
<v Speaker 2>my favorite.

916
00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, those are definitely good ones.

917
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:19.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

918
00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:23.360
<v Speaker 1>The Children of Orren definitely is a lasting favorite of mine.

919
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:27.880
<v Speaker 1>It's just so so heroic but so tragic, and it's

920
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:29.320
<v Speaker 1>the kind of book where you get to the end

921
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:33.519
<v Speaker 1>and you just feel empty but also full. I don't know,

922
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:36.719
<v Speaker 1>it's he captures the northern tragic spirit so well. Yes,

923
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.719
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, but you know that's part of the bigger

924
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:41.599
<v Speaker 1>story that it is destined for you catastrophe and so

925
00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:46.239
<v Speaker 1>it's tragedy amidst a story of ultimate hope and it's

926
00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:47.440
<v Speaker 1>just something so powerful there.

927
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.719
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I have a love hate relationship with it because

928
00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:53.920
<v Speaker 2>I like, I like everything to the line up and

929
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:57.039
<v Speaker 2>have a good conclusion, right and the Children of Horn

930
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:02.519
<v Speaker 2>essentially though it is it's it's a standalone story. You know,

931
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:06.199
<v Speaker 2>Torren was going to eventually be redeemed in one of

932
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:11.079
<v Speaker 2>the versions of the Last Battle. However that's only one

933
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:13.039
<v Speaker 2>of the versions of the Last Battle and it was

934
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:17.159
<v Speaker 2>never really thoroughly fleshed out. So it's like you get this,

935
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:20.519
<v Speaker 2>you read the Children of Hoorn and it's amazing, but

936
00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:23.079
<v Speaker 2>then you kind of have this it feels like a

937
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.760
<v Speaker 2>loose end, you know, when you get done. So it's

938
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:27.840
<v Speaker 2>like I love it, and then I also it makes

939
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:28.480
<v Speaker 2>me so mad.

940
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's pretty devastating.

941
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:36.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, it really.

942
00:50:36.559 --> 00:50:39.320
<v Speaker 2>It really does capture that Northern spirit and that tragedy,

943
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:40.920
<v Speaker 2>that sort of classic.

944
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:43.840
<v Speaker 3>Approach to to myth.

945
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely. And there's that great line between more Goth

946
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.159
<v Speaker 1>and Huron where Huron says, you know, you've wasted your

947
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:55.519
<v Speaker 1>strength and your own emptiness or something to that effect,

948
00:50:55.559 --> 00:51:01.679
<v Speaker 1>and that just cuts really at the central idea to

949
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:08.079
<v Speaker 1>Tolkien that all the bad guys more goth Suran, Souramon,

950
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:11.519
<v Speaker 1>like all the villains of the story are these people

951
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:14.960
<v Speaker 1>who reach out for power, but in so doing they're

952
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:19.039
<v Speaker 1>grasped by power, and so they really just fall into

953
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:21.719
<v Speaker 1>this emptiness of self worship, and in so doing they

954
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:25.679
<v Speaker 1>essentially become nothing. And this gets back to the fact

955
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:28.480
<v Speaker 1>that you know, basically the whole story is about God's

956
00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:31.079
<v Speaker 1>soul right to divine honor. Those who recognize the good

957
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:33.320
<v Speaker 1>that stands above and beyond them, those who are able

958
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:36.840
<v Speaker 1>to see that star shining forth into the forsaken land. Right,

959
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.519
<v Speaker 1>those are the people who are able to lash onto

960
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:44.519
<v Speaker 1>real enduring meaning enjoy, regardless of their circumstance. And so

961
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:47.840
<v Speaker 1>it's all about you know, who are or what are

962
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:49.159
<v Speaker 1>you living for?

963
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but I love that. I love that about not

964
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:55.440
<v Speaker 3>talk endless.

965
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:57.679
<v Speaker 2>I feel like the villains at the end of the

966
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 2>day are rather pathetic, you know, when you you take

967
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:03.559
<v Speaker 2>all things in the consideration, they're.

968
00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:07.360
<v Speaker 3>Very ugly, and they.

969
00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes can wield the great power, but at the end

970
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:16.280
<v Speaker 2>of the day, they're really there. They've laid themselves low

971
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:23.599
<v Speaker 2>and become and they every every day they spend not

972
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:26.760
<v Speaker 2>not living in the way that they were originally set

973
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.840
<v Speaker 2>to live, they become weaker and weaker and weaker, and

974
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:34.480
<v Speaker 2>every every evil thing just continues to take them further

975
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.159
<v Speaker 2>and further away from their original purpose.

976
00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:39.960
<v Speaker 3>I love that about it.

977
00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:44.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. There's this line from Augustine that comes to mind

978
00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:46.360
<v Speaker 1>in the City of God, when he says that the

979
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:50.159
<v Speaker 1>good man, though a slave, is free, whereas the wicked,

980
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:53.000
<v Speaker 1>though he may rule, is a slave. And what's worse

981
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:55.239
<v Speaker 1>is he's a slave to as many masters as he

982
00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:59.639
<v Speaker 1>has vices. And so it's in this pursuit of our

983
00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:04.360
<v Speaker 1>south are self referential good we just become enslaved to

984
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:06.320
<v Speaker 1>our passions, and we're no longer free.

985
00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:08.199
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely it.

986
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Freedom requires laying down the ring.

987
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's actually one of the things. And

988
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:20.400
<v Speaker 2>if you put this on Twitter, we'll stir the pot

989
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:22.000
<v Speaker 2>a little bit. One of the things that I actually

990
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:27.920
<v Speaker 2>liked about The Rings of Power was slime sorrow. I

991
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:31.800
<v Speaker 2>really enjoyed that, not because the book says that sarn

992
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:36.000
<v Speaker 2>is slime, but I enjoyed it because it really lined

993
00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:41.199
<v Speaker 2>up with this theme of one two things. One is,

994
00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:44.239
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, the enemies. The enemies

995
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:51.280
<v Speaker 2>is actually pathetic, I mean truly pathetic. And like when

996
00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:55.320
<v Speaker 2>you see the real true self when everything else is

997
00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:57.880
<v Speaker 2>stripped away, there's really nothing there, you know. He's this

998
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:01.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of this slot and another thing I really liked about.

999
00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:04.119
<v Speaker 2>And this is going off the spiritual topic a little bit,

1000
00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:09.360
<v Speaker 2>but the structure of power in Tolkien's world is different

1001
00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:13.280
<v Speaker 2>from the structure of power and other fantasy worlds, right,

1002
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:16.480
<v Speaker 2>where people if you look at Harry Potter, they're.

1003
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:19.239
<v Speaker 3>Turning things into chocolate bars.

1004
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:21.960
<v Speaker 2>You know that are and they seemingly can do this

1005
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:24.639
<v Speaker 2>a never ending amount of times, right, as long as

1006
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:29.920
<v Speaker 2>they say the right words, something happens, Whereas in Tolkien's world,

1007
00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:37.239
<v Speaker 2>things are they require energy, and beings actually become exhausted,

1008
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:44.320
<v Speaker 2>right because they are originally created as particularly the de

1009
00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:48.599
<v Speaker 2>Maya and the Valor, They're created as these thoughts and

1010
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:52.159
<v Speaker 2>reflections of Elluvatar's ultimate power, right, and that's where all

1011
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:55.559
<v Speaker 2>of their power derives. So if you look at someone

1012
00:54:55.599 --> 00:55:02.039
<v Speaker 2>like Saram, he comes whatever power he has really is

1013
00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:06.320
<v Speaker 2>transitive from a Louvatar.

1014
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:09.440
<v Speaker 5>And each thing that he does, each evil thing that

1015
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:14.440
<v Speaker 5>he does, really just further furthering a lessons that that

1016
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:17.800
<v Speaker 5>original reflection of Alluviatar's thought that he's supposed to be.

1017
00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:20.840
<v Speaker 2>So there's costs for all these things that he does.

1018
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:25.400
<v Speaker 2>So I liked that that was that was a part

1019
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I went on a tangent there. So well we'll kick

1020
00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:29.679
<v Speaker 2>this up you don't get some people mad and the replies.

1021
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:33.159
<v Speaker 2>I actually liked that they had him go through this

1022
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:37.159
<v Speaker 2>whole having to recreate a whole body thing because.

1023
00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:37.840
<v Speaker 3>It takes work, right.

1024
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Uh. And that's that's where Tip baranciates Tolkien, Tolkien's legendarium

1025
00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:44.079
<v Speaker 2>and where the power comes from from other.

1026
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so my my promo for this episode is

1027
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:50.559
<v Speaker 1>not going to be Mixer endorses Rings of Power.

1028
00:55:50.599 --> 00:55:56.800
<v Speaker 3>By the way, please don't please don't. Uh you know

1029
00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:59.440
<v Speaker 3>that's a many that one wondring dot com.

1030
00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:00.679
<v Speaker 1>That's my really.

1031
00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:03.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the boys, I love them. I love those guys

1032
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:04.000
<v Speaker 3>over there.

1033
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.519
<v Speaker 1>John John Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1034
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:09.079
<v Speaker 3>He hit me. He roasted me pretty hard and made

1035
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:10.159
<v Speaker 3>that the thumbnail of his.

1036
00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:15.760
<v Speaker 1>That's great, it's good. Way get some clicks. I mean

1037
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:18.920
<v Speaker 1>with Rings of Power. I mean, we don't need to

1038
00:56:18.920 --> 00:56:21.320
<v Speaker 1>spend a whole conversation on that now, but I mean

1039
00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:27.960
<v Speaker 1>generally speaking, I actually I don't like it as a Tolkienist.

1040
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:32.440
<v Speaker 1>I like it relative to what is out there today,

1041
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:36.000
<v Speaker 1>It's main competitors in the popular media in that I

1042
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:38.760
<v Speaker 1>think that you know, even an echo of Tolkien or

1043
00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:40.679
<v Speaker 1>an echo of an echo of Tolkien is gonna be

1044
00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:42.800
<v Speaker 1>better than most of what's out there today regarding just

1045
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:43.719
<v Speaker 1>basic morality.

1046
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:44.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1047
00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:46.880
<v Speaker 2>So this is actually one of the points that I

1048
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.559
<v Speaker 2>like to make is that when you see someone, when

1049
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:55.400
<v Speaker 2>you see studios that are saying things, because again I

1050
00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:59.039
<v Speaker 2>care about philosophical underpinnings, right, I knew going into the

1051
00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:00.760
<v Speaker 2>show that they were gonna Book of the Lore. It

1052
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:03.079
<v Speaker 2>was never it was never even a question in my

1053
00:57:03.159 --> 00:57:05.840
<v Speaker 2>mind or like I knew going in, I was like,

1054
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:09.559
<v Speaker 2>this is not going to add up. So because I

1055
00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:12.239
<v Speaker 2>went in with that expectation, really what I cared about

1056
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:13.639
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day is are they going

1057
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:17.079
<v Speaker 2>to try and deconstruct Tolkien? Are they going to put

1058
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:21.480
<v Speaker 2>things in here that shouldn't be in here? You know,

1059
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:25.000
<v Speaker 2>a subjective approaches to morality? Like am I going to

1060
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:27.800
<v Speaker 2>be seeing that? And I mean it hasn't been perfect,

1061
00:57:27.880 --> 00:57:30.559
<v Speaker 2>but I really I will say that, like I think

1062
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:35.960
<v Speaker 2>when people make projects where you see actual good.

1063
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:38.719
<v Speaker 3>Philosophical messaging, good messaging on morality.

1064
00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:41.280
<v Speaker 2>There's a couple of really good speeches in there that

1065
00:57:41.320 --> 00:57:45.400
<v Speaker 2>they particularly I really liked in I think it was

1066
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:47.880
<v Speaker 2>the last episode or the second to the last episode

1067
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:50.920
<v Speaker 2>of season two where Cala Marainbore is kind of giving

1068
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:53.599
<v Speaker 2>the speech to Galadriel, like he admits his mistake.

1069
00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:56.760
<v Speaker 3>There's gold in there.

1070
00:57:56.840 --> 00:57:59.960
<v Speaker 2>And you watch it, you're like, Wow, no other show

1071
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:03.239
<v Speaker 2>was saying anything like this, So I.

1072
00:58:03.159 --> 00:58:04.880
<v Speaker 3>Would like to give them props for that.

1073
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:06.800
<v Speaker 2>And I think that when studios come out with stuff

1074
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:09.039
<v Speaker 2>that actually has good messaging, you should clap for that

1075
00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:14.800
<v Speaker 2>because maybe they'll lean into it more. However, you know,

1076
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:20.599
<v Speaker 2>Rings Power obviously has some serious more problems that are inexcusable,

1077
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:25.280
<v Speaker 2>So there's there's a balancing act you have just too, like,

1078
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:30.480
<v Speaker 2>clap for the philosophical messaging, but also Aron should not

1079
00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:32.039
<v Speaker 2>be kissing Galadrial.

1080
00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:32.760
<v Speaker 3>At any point.

1081
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they do some weird stuff for no good reason.

1082
00:58:35.719 --> 00:58:37.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and there's no way you can really spin that

1083
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:40.039
<v Speaker 3>like you can't.

1084
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:43.280
<v Speaker 2>It was unnecessary to the point where it almost feels

1085
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.480
<v Speaker 2>like you're trying to agitate me.

1086
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:49.239
<v Speaker 1>I do think it's kind of humorous that some of

1087
00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:51.239
<v Speaker 1>the same people who are trying to defend the show,

1088
00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:53.639
<v Speaker 1>saying that was entirely platonic for the same people that

1089
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:55.800
<v Speaker 1>can argue that something's going on with Prodo and Sam.

1090
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:58.119
<v Speaker 1>It's just like something doesn't add up here.

1091
00:58:58.679 --> 00:58:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1092
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:03.800
<v Speaker 2>No, it's all just whatever, it's fitting whatever you want

1093
00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:07.159
<v Speaker 2>it to be to match up with your argument.

1094
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Right. But yeah, I think we're pent on the same

1095
00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:14.239
<v Speaker 1>page with that. Overall, it's pretty good relative to its

1096
00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:19.079
<v Speaker 1>competitors at the very least. Well, you know, we going

1097
00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:21.159
<v Speaker 1>a little over an hour. Is there anything else that

1098
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:23.480
<v Speaker 1>you think that we should hit on or anything else

1099
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:24.280
<v Speaker 1>that you want to bring up?

1100
00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Probably not anything that we could really unpack. I could

1101
00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:32.719
<v Speaker 2>give a whole review of phrase of Power, but you

1102
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:34.039
<v Speaker 2>know that would definitely.

1103
00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:36.920
<v Speaker 3>Say that after their time sounds good. Trying to think

1104
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:41.559
<v Speaker 3>any anything else, any other questions? No, I mean sometimes

1105
00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:42.880
<v Speaker 3>sometimes I go on.

1106
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump has this right line where he talks about

1107
00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:49.280
<v Speaker 2>how he leaves. Sometimes occasionally I will leave. So I hope,

1108
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I hope I gave you some good content.

1109
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:53.360
<v Speaker 1>No, it's a good good weaving, good weaving. I think

1110
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:55.840
<v Speaker 1>we've weave together something something useful.

1111
00:59:56.079 --> 00:59:57.599
<v Speaker 3>Perfect, sounds good? All right?

1112
00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:01.199
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, and you know to do this again sometime,

1113
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:05.239
<v Speaker 1>maybe with some specific topic in mind, but yeah, sounds good.

1114
01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:08.599
<v Speaker 1>All right, well appreciate it. Everyone go follow Middle or

1115
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:22.800
<v Speaker 1>Mixer if you don't already. Thank you, thanks again for listening,

1116
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:24.880
<v Speaker 1>and thank you to all of my patrons who make

1117
01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:28.079
<v Speaker 1>this show in my various other endeavors possible. And by name,

1118
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.079
<v Speaker 1>I would like to thank all Tier two patrons and

1119
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:32.559
<v Speaker 1>higher and so many thanks to Mark Cliff, Aaron D

1120
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Paul William, Aaron s Andrew g Andrew M. Brandon and Christopher,

1121
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:41.119
<v Speaker 1>emmy E and Jeremiah, Joscelyn, josh T, Joshua B. Matthew,

1122
01:00:41.159 --> 01:00:45.039
<v Speaker 1>Sarah and Steele. And again, I am recording this a

1123
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:47.639
<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks before the public posting, and so if

1124
01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:50.079
<v Speaker 1>more of you have joined since then, then that's why

1125
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:51.679
<v Speaker 1>you're left off this time. But you will make it

1126
01:00:51.679 --> 01:00:54.719
<v Speaker 1>next time. I really do love doing this sort of thing.

1127
01:00:54.760 --> 01:00:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I would love to be able to consistently provide you

1128
01:00:57.000 --> 01:00:59.480
<v Speaker 1>with an episode a week in definitely moving forward, and

1129
01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:02.119
<v Speaker 1>maybe even more often than that. But I can't do

1130
01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:04.960
<v Speaker 1>it without your support, and so if you appreciate what

1131
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:07.000
<v Speaker 1>I do and you want more of it, then please

1132
01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:10.119
<v Speaker 1>go to Patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind and join

1133
01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:12.199
<v Speaker 1>the Fellowship, and you can find that link in the

1134
01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:15.320
<v Speaker 1>show notes, and especially at that second tier and higher

1135
01:01:15.519 --> 01:01:18.440
<v Speaker 1>that there's never been as much available Mythic Mind content

1136
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:20.960
<v Speaker 1>as there is right now, and so go ahead and

1137
01:01:21.079 --> 01:01:23.400
<v Speaker 1>make that happen. That's it for now, and I hope

1138
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:25.679
<v Speaker 1>that you tune in next week for our next conversation,

1139
01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:29.719
<v Speaker 1>which will be available even sooner ad free for our patrons.

1140
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:32.159
<v Speaker 1>But that's it for now, and so until next time,

1141
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:33.079
<v Speaker 1>godspeed

1142
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:04.079
<v Speaker 3>And the