Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasiko's I am Dan Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, this certified, fantabulous mister
Grant hues he's getting ready to leave us for a
little bit for vacation, but has agreed to do the
NBA most confusing team's draft. We know you're all excited
for it. Coming at you a full twelve hours earlier, then,
I accidentally scheduled this live show for so Apologies to
anyone who was waiting for us to be going live
at two o'clock Eastern time in the morning. That's not
when we were planning on going live. It was around
two o'clock in me in the afternoon. A lot of
just missteps on my end, Grant, As you said, I
should probably start getting some sleep, but my question to you,
I'm not so in my sleep deprived state. I will
not forget this. How the heck are you doing? We
need to know the answer.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here. It feels like it's been
a really long time. It because we didn't We haven't
potted for a full week, is that correct? Is it
more than that? It feels like almost two weeks. That's
why it feels like a long time. I do feel
like regular listeners would have immediately flagged the two am
Eastern live stream start time and said that must be
a mistake, because we're all well aware that that's several
hours past my bedtime. There's no way I would appear
on a live stream that's that late. If I did,
it would be really unexciting because I would be unconscious.
I would be asleep, which, you know, maybe that's something
to put behind the paywall.
Speaker 1: I don't know how often we need to do a podcast,
but how often are you up past eleven pm? Your time?
Speaker 2: No more than once a week, I would say, like that,
and that's just how oft Well I could ask you
the same question, but I know the answer. The time
you were asleep before eleven pm? Oh like on purpose,
not like you crashed out at four in the afternoon,
And it doesn't care.
Speaker 1: Uh. Probably when I used to have a bedtime, I
was probably being bottle fed at that point. I have
no idea, if.
Speaker 2: You think about it, we really could we need to
find a job where it's like a twenty four hour
thing and we could just both hold the position and
just work opposite twelve hours, you know, because I don't
function outside of like normal working hours, and you only
function outside of normal working hours, so there must be
some way for us to exploit this. Should we do
a twenty four hour live stream where it just we
just tag in and tag out.
Speaker 1: Twelve hours of each year, we do it in like
four hour increments. We need to You got me thinking, though,
is we need to do if we get a thousand
more Patreon members the next month, Grant, we'll do a pod,
a live stream podcast after midnight his time. I'm doing
it anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, easy light list for you.
Speaker 1: We'll have to see what type of state he's in?
Is he like? What does he consume to stay up
past midnight?
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine. I can't imagine. It wouldn't be pretty,
it would Yeah, yeah, you know what, I'll commit to
it though. A thousand more subscribers, I'm happy to I'm
happy to debase myself by staying up late.
Speaker 1: I guess debase yourself, Grant, the most Confusing Teams draft.
Ideally we'd be doing this when Lebron post Lebron James's
next decision, which should be coming imminently, maybe while we're
recording this podcast. Probably not, I think most people think
it'll happen sometime after the World Cup final, but enough
stuff has happened that we can sit here survey the
lay of the land, and even when we're kind of
baking in, this team clearly doesn't feel like it's finished. Uh,
there are other teams that are just confusing me, ever,
living heck out of me. So is there anything as
you went about this before we start going through our
picks that is there a certain set of criteria that
stands out to you? Or is it are these if
you're going through when you've built your big board? Was
the prevailing theme? This is a team that I didn't
think made sense leading into the off season and they're
still confusing me. Or has a lot of this stuff
been transaction driven over the off season?
Speaker 2: Great question? I think. I think the first thing is
that it used to be easier to point to a
team and say this one doesn't make any sense because
that was just shorthand for well, they're they're not going
for a championship and they're not tanking, and so that's
so like, what's the plan. You know, the Raptors have
occupied that space for.
Speaker 1: A long time.
Speaker 2: The Bulls kind of and lived in it for they
were like the poster team for that type of things.
You know, any any team that was like in the
play in mix or whatever, and it just didn't feel
like they were going for one or extreme or the other.
You'd say, like, well, that's confusing. Why would you try
to say it's different now? It's different now with the
way the lottery odds are, like, there's there's certainly not
a payoff for being abjectly terrible on purpose, or at
least your odds are are not as favorable. And so
I really found myself trying to avoid just the teams
that are kind of in the middle, or at least
not choosing them for that reason alone. Like there needed
to be to answer your question more precisely, like there
needed to be roster stuff that that struck me as
ill conceived or like just unfinished, or you couldn't really
find the sense of or just the way management is operating.
I've got a team that has some ownership issues that
are confusing to me. I'm sure they're on your list too,
stuff like that. You know, it's all the basics, but
it can't and it can't just be well, they don't
seem to have it can't only be well, this is
like a team that's going to finish between thirty two
and forty two wins, So what's the point Because you
could get away with that before, but I think you
need to look a little harder. Now what do you
think do you? Does that resonate with you? That was
that an issue as you were putting your list together too,
of like, oh, this is kind of different than it
used to.
Speaker 1: Be, right, and it's just so as like a spoiler,
like the Chicago Bulls would not be high up on
my big board. But what I did all also factor
in is that a lot of this goes beyond just
this coming season too. It's not about trying to figure out, okay,
well we kind of understand what the Bulls are doing
in the long term, or at least get like it's
all right, new front office regime, so we understand what
they're doing this year or what the overarching picture should be.
Some of these teams you look at and a lot
of it could be just awkward fit with players or
on court stuff driven by all of that. But there
are a couple of teams where it's not just what's
the end goal this season, but what is the plan
long term. They every team in theory all has the
same endgame. But if you haven't acted like a team
that's cobbled together any type of long term vision, and
you're not clearly all in on winning next season, that's
a I mean, it's a red flag or confuses the
hell out of me. I call it more of a
red flag than confusing. But it goes into the roster
construction or the construction of a vision and the incoherence
of it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think if if I
had to, if I divert from your methodology at all,
it's that I did focus a little more on this
upcoming season. But I do think if if something about
your team is confusing in the short term, there's a
really good chance that it's also like your big picture
is kind of a mess too, because right, you know, yeah,
because here we are three months from the start of
the year, and if things are weird now, it's it's
not like you're you know, this isn't a case where like,
well I can see the vision of Team X. It's
it's all confusing now, but like once things line up
in twenty twenty eight, I get it. It's not. You know,
usually it's it's kind of like systemically confused.
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's probably never been harder to measure a team's
longer term viability or trajectory, even if they're an established contender.
It's sort of use windows just feel as if they're
built to open and shut one a whim.
Speaker 2: The flip side of that is, we're just lots of preamble,
but we haven't talked in two weeks or whatever. I'm
working on something ranking like trade ships, you know, and
it's not it can't be like wemben Yama, but it's
like the types of stuff you would use to acquire
the next available superstar, right, So, like young players, or
like draft picks and trying to rank draft picks, Like, okay,
the Nuggets twenty thirty two, that's out there, you know
that the Nets have. It's like, okay, that seems really choice,
but that's so far away, Like the Nuggets could have
gone through two competitive cycles by then, or even more
than that. So does that mean like a twenty twenty
eight pick is what you want? Or what about? So?
I to your point, it's really hard to game out
anything past a year or two at this point because
just the way the lottery works, the way the aprons
of affected team building, it's it's a you know what,
confusing times we live in, confusing times, uncertain times.
Speaker 1: I'm with you there, and because I'm a kind and
generous person, I will give you the first pick of
the most confusing teams draft.
Speaker 2: So this was the first team that came to mind.
It's the one that I tease a little bit. They
have to be on your list. We've talked about them
a little bit. I don't know if they justify the
first pick, but first thought, best thought, the Portland Trail
Blazers are a confusing basketball team to me.
Speaker 1: You know how well I know that we're in lockstep.
Is John Moran in a Blazers jersey is the front
and center of our YouTube thumb now for this episode.
We didn't go into this knowing what each other's big
boards were, but I knew they would be a team
that were on both of our lists, and I thought
they would go first.
Speaker 2: Overall, Okay, great, they have to be so this the
Ja Morant of it all is part of it. I
want to start though with there are a lot of
things I like about this team, Like we both were
Denny Avviapild. We think he's great, great contract. We like
some of their young guards. We're never giving up on
Scoot Donovan Klingen, Like there is a version of this
team that has just built around young guys as an
Ovidia that I think we like a lot, Like even
some of their marginal moves like Brandon Carlson might be helpful,
and like we're never giving up on young handsome and
like what if Shade and Sharp becomes something, then maybe
that deal turns out to be a pot. There's a
lot to like, is all I'm saying, Like the defensive infrastructure,
they're just a couple shooters away all that stuff. But
starting from the very top with ownership, what is happening here?
Like where will this? Is this a team that is
now suddenly like a real threat to move because of
what Tom Dundan has said about public funds and like
basically telegraphing his feeling that hey, Portland, you're lucky I'm
even here, Like that's a that's talk about red flags right,
Like that is the ownership situation there kind of puts
anything in place. So I don't know if confusing is
even the right word. It's like ominous. You know, there's
unstable concerning whatever you want to use, So start there,
move down the list to Mike and nor is on
like the least stable head coach contract we've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Just it's he's one instantly.
Speaker 2: Right, like what could go what could go wrong? Like
surely there's no real reason why teams have forever avoided
employing lame duck coaches, Like what you know? So there's that.
Then you get to the roster. The jaw trade is crazy.
We've talked about that plenty. He's kind of in the
way of a lot of people. It creates a bunch
of roster crunch issues. His effect on Danny Avdya feels
like certainly negative, proved me wrong. I would love to
be wrong, But that that doesn't Those two don't make
a ton of sense together. This team hasn't added shooters,
and they were twenty seventh and three point shooting accuracy
last year despite getting up the fourth most in terms
of share of their shots. Like, I don't, I don't
know how you look at what happened last year and
decide adding Jah Moran and not shooting is the solution.
I We could go on, but like those are the
sort of the pillars of like what I don't get
about what's going on with Portland? Do you have anything
to add to that? Would they have been your first pick? Yeah?
Speaker 1: They would have been my first pick. And I think
the Tom Dundan stuff only just adds to the confusion
because it's it's not even just the are they still
gonna be here in five years or whatever it's is
he actually will? They were linked to some of these
bigger names, including John Morant, but that was a value
playing a vacuum, But it's are they gonna be willing
to pay Denny Avia next summer? Is a renegotiating extent
or even when he's up for a new contract and
hits restrict unrestricted free agency? Like, what are going to
be their limits when it comes to investing in players?
We've seen their limits when it comes to investing in
what surrounds the players, and it's not great. It's not
great so far. The guard glut I was just insane
to me. Now, I don't see how you caught to
trade Chris Murray wasn't a big part of what they're doing,
but to trade like two wings who can help you
on defense? For John Morant, who nukes your spacing and
hurts your defense, and you're also gonna play him with
Damian Lillard, is what their early speculation sounds like. I
don't know what that's like. I don't know what that
says about what these teams core lineups are gonna be,
because then it's you get into well, then one of
Tamani Kamara or Drew Holliday is gonna be kind of
left out in the cold, or you're gonna be playing
smaller a lot. But oh, it's kind of harder to
play smaller now that Jeremy Grant isn't there. And you
also did resign Robert Williams the third, so you would
assume between young handsome Brandon Carlson r W three and
Donovan Klingon that you want more of a traditional big
man rotation anyway. I And then just like, what does
John Morant look like on this team? Have you done
him a disservice on the court? You know, we're saying
that John Morant comes in and complicates a lot of stuff.
You've probably not put John Morant in his best on
court situation just because you don't have the surrounding space
and to capitalize on whatever he's able to provide in
terms of rim pressure. I this it's just so interesting
because they were one of the teams. I don't know
if you could call him a feel good story. I
thought Tiago's did great work after Chauncey Billups went through
the whole indictment process, so like to kind of keep
a stable baseline there. They were pretty strong defensively at
points you saw just tons of growth from certain players.
I like to go in this direction. I don't like
the Jahn Morant was it just oh, he's so cheap,
Like we're gonna roll the dice and hope it works out.
The problem with that is, even if it works out,
I don't really know what the ceiling of that kind
of look like. What does the best case scenario of
John Morant on this team look like? And finally, you
mentioned Shandon Sharp and also Scoot Henderson. What's going on
there and with Scoot specifically, is extension eligible and it's
you could say, yeah, they definitely haven't seen enough to
pay him, and I would agree unless the price is
just so low. At the same time, you haven't built
a team that makes it seem as if you're even
invested in him in the slightest and you could make
the same case for Shade and Sharp. And in addition
to being part of why they feel confusing, is not
just because we I look at what's in place and say, well,
this is what they're clearly trying to move forward with
this season. I look at it and say, there's no
way that they can be done this offseason, right, is
part of what my brain is saying. Yeah, I don't
know whether that's true, but that's when you look at
the roster. I think it's that's a reasonable conclusion to
come to if you had no inside information on what
the Blazers are planning.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a charitable conclusion too, because you're assuming you're
looking at it and saying, well, like, no, sane you know,
decision maker would would stop here, right because for all
the reasons we just went through. Do you think we
can't know this? But do you think that acquiring Jah
Morant was done with the idea of this is just
a pure asset play. This is a by low guy
that maybe plays well for us and we can turn
him into something like is that maybe the move that
needs to be made for stuff to make more sense here.
Obviously moving him would make more sense, But like, do
you think think that was the logic behind it, or
do you think the Blazers looked at him and said,
this is a guy that we can imagine being a
core piece, like because John Moran is not a supporting player, right,
Like that's one of the issues with him, is like
he does not have a skill set that lends itself
to being a skill set matched with sort of an
ego or like a willingness to accept that type of
role to be like a smaller time piece. It's like,
if you have him on the team and he's playing
like he's kind of in the middle of everything. So
do you think which which of the two seems more
likely to you as far as they're justification for adding him.
Speaker 1: It has to be the former, because if you're saying
the latter, what have you seen over the past three
years that would make you think one that player has
appeared at any point during that time or two this
is someone who because he was so reliant on his
athleticism and he's he is a really good passer, but
because so much of his game was rooted in athleticism.
Even if you rehabilitate his value. What does that window
look like or does what we say at the top
apply here to where these these windows are opening and
shutting so quickly that even if it is for two years,
But it's just I don't know, especially with the way
his contract is. He is two years left, and so
you kind of need to make a decision on him
after this season the way the extension game works. Yeah,
so I think it's where do you land on. I
think it's kind of just stab in the dark. They
viewed it as opportunism, and this was you know, if
the alternative was Jalen Brown might have been a better
fit or a higher end acquisition. He also, even though
we criticized or were I guess we were more on
the Sixers' side of that deal, he would have cost
substantially more than what they gave up for jaw Rant,
Like they didn't give up any draft equity for.
Speaker 2: Him, right, I mean I lean more towards just the
like the first the form, like the asset play, the
potential upside measured against the low cost of adding him.
Partly because like if you let's take the alternative, uh,
if you thought that, you know what somewhere in here
there's a core of jaw Denny Avdia and Donovan Klingen,
Like we can. We can, especially if Clingon develops as
a shooter, like I guess, But like I just don't
see the Avdya jaw fit because I don't want to
take the ball out of Avdya's hands. I want shooting
around him and he gets to run the off. I
just I believe that that's a more effective more effective
maybe not Like if the the highest ceiling version of
the Blazers is John Morant looks like he did five
years ago and and he's like your your top ten
MVP candidate. You build the whole thing around him with
shooting in defense, Like sure, I would concede that's probably
better than Avidya could make the team maybe, But I
just don't. They're not they're not acting. They didn't just
go out and find every shooter on the market, right
they they Because if you really thought that, like we're
gonna build a team around this guy or even just
him and Obdia, you just go find shooting. So to me,
it's just this is all it costs to get a
guy that like there's a five percent chance he could
be an All NBA player again, Like, I guess you
just pay that right, and that's that leads to confusing
teams because you're just like, well, we'll take him, but
he doesn't make any sense in any way for us,
and so that's how you end up the first pick.
Speaker 1: We spend enough time on that, But what does we
oh we were wrong about the Blazers look like? Like what
has happened in you? Like? Because I think with some
of these teams you could at least envision X happens
and that's where we could be. It doesn't feel likely,
but X happens, and it feels like we could be wrong.
I keep trying to sit here and figure out, well,
what are we missing? Because you can say all that
stuff is fine about the value play on John Morant, okay, great,
doesn't necessarily make him just because you think there's a
five percent chance of be an All NBA player again
doesn't mean that you've set up the ecosystem or the like,
have the supporting cast to make that happen. So the
theory of this roster right now feels jagged for sure.
Speaker 2: I think I think the one way that it does
make sense, and this is not a positive, but it
could be something that teams maybe should think about more.
Is because, as we've said, there just seem to be
a lot of players that are kind of in each
other's way. Here if forty of the roster is hurt
basically all season, right, because then it's like if Scoot
Scoots had plenty of injury problems, Dame was coming off
the Achille who knows right, Robert Williams is not a
reliable guy from a health perspective, Drew Holidays Old Like
suddenly you're not sitting there thinking like how are we
going to possibly play Scoot and Shade and Sharp Andrew
Holliday and Dame Lollard and John Moran and like how
does that all work? With Obdy and eating the ball?
It's like, well, if four of those guys are hurt
on any given night, suddenly the rotation makes a little
more sense, just because it's like it's clearer who should
play because you you just play your better players and
you figure it like that element of it can make
more sense. The overall build, which again is short on
shooting and kind of lighter on forwards, and that whole
thing that I don't know what the best. Like how
you look at that and say, well, it could work
out if this like there's just it's a weirdly built roster.
The only positive is like it could just because of injuries,
there wouldn't be quite as much overlap as there seems.
There's definitely going to be Right now.
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Speaker 1: And now back to the show with the second pick
in the most confusing NBA Teams Draft to select the
Washington Wizards. I there's the Trey Young contract, which you
know we want to talk about the Bucks coming to
terms of Gary Trent Junior a year or two ago.
It feels like this Trey Young deal was agreed upon
as part of his trade to Washington to where he
gets the four years, two hundred the max that he
could the four year max basically he could have gotten
from another team of four years and two hundred and
twelve point nine million dollars after declining his player option
given the market. That just doesn't make sense to me
in a vacuum from a pure value perspective, I thought
we were gonna reach a point. What do I keep
saying every summer is when are we gonna reach a
point where actual negotiations are happening with perceived stars? And
what happens Victor Wamanyama takes a fifty million dollar discount
like before, there's negotiation happening on Trey Young to the
next contract. Wild to me, what still is confusing about this?
And you could look at some of the other moves.
By the way, good friend Chris Middleton, he's back. I
would have probably preferred them to like lean more towards
just a pure shooter. When you're looking at who else
is on this roster, their big man rotation is now okay,
getting off the Jaden Hardy contract fine. Getting DeAndre eighton
eight million dollars backup five also fine. You have Alex
hard and Anthony Davis, and you needed to give up
second round picks to make it happen. The other thing is,
when you're looking at investing in Trey Young at this level,
you just drafted Aj Debantsa, who I think needs to
be on the ball more often than Darren Peterson. This
is the only viable alternative at this point. Maybe I'll
prove wrong. Summer League is not a good gauge of that,
just because all of these guys are going to be
on the ball a ton. That being said, like Cam
Boozer is a better shooter than Aj Debantsa is. Right now,
when you're looking at like the three point stuff, do
you trust Trey Young? There's something to be said about No,
AJ doesn't need to be the number one option. He
probably shouldn't be the number one option. He can be
uplifted by funneling that usage towards someone else where, then
he's gonna get a lot of the secondary looks. Is
Trey Young the type of player that can function differently
because when you look at the percentage of his team's
on ball possessions he has used when on the floor.
Since entering the league, he has never ranked lower than
seventh in the entire league grant and he's only ranked
outside the top five once when he was seventh, and
I think that was this past year. By the way,
Like what now you're adding Anthony Davis, it will presumably
endo them mas Anty David still going to be there.
He didn't get any He's he he's going to be
extension eligible? Are you giving him one?
Speaker 2: Does?
Speaker 1: I don't think the eight and acquisition signals that, oh,
we want to we're more likely to trade Anthony Davis.
If anything, it signals do we want to play a
lot of Alex Sar with another big type lineups? And
if that is a default, what does that mean for
a wing rotation that's fairly stacked at this point? When
you look at debantsa when you look at having Keishon,
George Black, Kulabaly still being there. Oh, Cam Whitmore's still
on this team. So it was justin Champenny and we
just brought back Chris Middleton. I am so confused by
this shruster. Not in a way where I'm necessarily down
on it, but I also just find myself looking what
Trey Johnson was able to do in Summer League, and
I kind of find myself wondering, well, how does he
work into all of this? And if he works into
all this, what does that mean for Bob Carrington. There's
this roster is all over the place, even when you're
looking at like just we probably get too caught up
in timelines, but like, on the one hand, you have
Anthony Davis and Trey Young taking up sixty plus percent
of your cap, and on the other hand, you have
the number one overall pick from this draft. You have
Keishaan George who before he missed time last year, who's
having a breakout campaign. You have alexar who's drafted number
two overall two years ago. Is what is even with
the idea of Okay lottery reformation, this team's been rebuilding
for a minute now. They want to make a jump.
I don't even understand what type of jump they're trying
to make. Is it to just be in the the
middle at this point? Did they internally just because they
do have some of the name power, they have not
necessarily transacted like a team that is desperate to be
in the top six in the East per se. But
you did just give Trey Young a quasi max and
you have Trey Young and Anthony Davis just hashtag on
this team. So I don't know honestly what the wizards
Is short term game is, and you could even long
term I still think right there are some clear core
pieces in place, But do they view Trey Young and
AD as one of those pieces? I honestly, Trey Young
certainly seems like they might.
Speaker 2: Well, if he's not, i'd sure like to know what
they would have paid him. Isn't this this is kind
of a wild sort of like turn about because I
think we both were probably I don't know what the
breakdown was, but we both liked the Young trade and
the Davis trade to varying. He's like, I wouldn't say,
don't let me put words in your mouth, but like
in both cases, I was kind of like I think
if that's the cost, you just do it. By the way,
a lot more trades happening these days where that's the
justification of it with so which maybe suggests that like
that shouldn't be the cost. But were you there at
like with with both Trey and Davis when they made
those trades. It's like, yeah, man, I guess like that's
just an asset you take for the for the price.
Speaker 1: Which is why didn't we just say that when we
were talking about John Morant with the Blazers.
Speaker 2: Well that's why I kind of asked, like, I'm coming
around to that perspective, but we went through I like, well, actually,
this is just it's actively damaging maybe in a lot
of ways.
Speaker 1: No, you're not putting words in my mouth. I went
back and forth with more on this at the time
where I was like, no, these trades make sense as
an opportunity, Like as a matter of opportunity. It's oh,
if they go turn around and give them these massive deals,
that's when you have questions and what did they do?
Speaker 2: Guess what they got some questions? Yeah, I so the
trading extension spun me all the way back around to
this before. But like, this is just the same organization
that gave Bradley Beal that contract, and this is just
like this is this just feels like so right on
brand for a team that we really thought was doing
things a little more sensibly. So I would echo everything
you said. I this in a lot of ways, this
is more confused. This team is more confusing than Portland.
It's just that like it's not quite at every level
because the Dundon and the Morant pieces are just so
like just confounding. But let's be looking. Let's let's try
to give the Wizards the benefit of the doubt. I
can't do it with the young extension. That's never gonna
make sense. But like maybe there's some element of we
got all these young guys, if any of them are
any good, they'll be good enough to prove it in
suboptimal circumstances. Look what Cooper Flag did in Dallas last year,
Like you know, he kind of the role wasn't great.
There weren't like a ton of veterans that like we're
eating into his time and if anything, like he had
to play it difficult role because they didn't have good alternatives.
But if you just throw Debanza and Sar and Keishan
George and Trey Johnson and you neglected to mention my
guy Will Riley in the mix, and like just toss
them all in there with Anthony Davis and like something
emerges and it becomes clear organically, like who belongs and
who doesn't and who fits whatever timeline you're on. That
feels more like just that doesn't feel like a plan
to me, Like that just feels like we cobble. We've
thrown together guys all across the age bracket and we'll
get what we get. And like, sure, in a world
where being absolutely terrible doesn't pay, you might find something
that gets you on the most optimistic end of things
out above the plane or something. I don't think that's
happening the East is crazy, but like you don't get
to if things work out here, it will feel more
like happenstance than an organized sort of effort to get
this team to wherever it's trying to go. I feel
like the Debanza pick provided them cover to go to
Trey Young and say, hey, whatever we agreed to, like
we didn't contemplate we were gonna have this potentially generational guy.
We're kind of going in a different direction, here's twenty
five million a year with like a team option on
the third. Godspeed if you can go beat this somewhere else,
Like circumstances changed, you understand, and if he walks, he walks,
it didn't cost you anything to get him like that,
the doubling down whether it was being I do you
believe that the reporting that like the Wizards were afraid
somebody else was gonna put you like That's just the.
Speaker 1: Only team I could think of is because they traded
for Julius Randle was the Nets would they have preferred to?
But if they guards right, who went off in the
summer League and then they drafted Mikel Brown Junior, So
I think that would have possibily would have come off
the table. I don't see another team that this. This
is just like the Bucks had suitors for Gary Trent
Junior and sign in trades potentially at this four year,
sixty four million dollar number.
Speaker 2: This, so then you're what you said initially was right,
is this was agreed to at the time of the trade, which.
Speaker 1: Oh, you don't see that happen where one player gets
salary dumped only to turn around and then sign a
near ax deal. With them.
Speaker 2: The market just told you what he was worth, and
it wasn't fifty million dollars a year. It was dead.
It was basically dead Corey Kispert's contract and dead money,
which six and one half done the other Like if.
Speaker 1: You McCollum won the Hawks a playoff game, he really did,
he really did.
Speaker 2: I might like this team better if CJ. McCollum were
on it instead of Tree Young, certainly at his new contract. Yeah,
it doesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah, Phil Barksdale
feel like Washington went on a shopping spree on Facebook
marketplace a little bit, a little bit.
Speaker 1: The one difference I will say between them and Portland is,
at least in theory Trey Young and Anthony Davish Phil
needs where was they didn't have a floor general of
the future and if you wanted Alex Are to play
alongside a more physical big man done in Portland, it's
I don't know what I think job Rant exacerbates the
problems they were supposed to address. When you're looking at
the shooting, that's damning with fame praise for Washington, but
but it's also different because I do look at this
roster and it's not even Portland. I'm pretty sure is
going to be disappointing just because of the makeup of
the team with washing Art. Yeah, I can't fathom what
this team divisions itself being enough to know whether they're
going to be disappointing or exceed expectations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, all right, I got an I got
another pick here. It's a little bit of a different
type of team because I think those two were I
think the Wizards probably would have been my second pick
as well. So I'm gonna go Dallas Mavericks. This is
it's a bizarre roster can struction. It's just the powerful.
I mean, I'm gonna forget some. But you have Cooper Flag,
you traded for Santi Aldama. Naji Marshall's probably best used
as a for PJ Washington. Same there, Klay Thompson is
a is a for at least do me a favor.
Speaker 1: Just name the team players on this team who aren't
best suit forward Kyrie Irving?
Speaker 2: Right sure, yeah, I don't know. Right. Defensively is can
you hold up so a million forwards? Not a lot
of point guard depth behind Kyrie Irving because Brandon Williams
has not comeback yet. I feel I think that's someone
they should definitely want to keep around if they can. Uh,
Center seems fine, but you've got Derek Lively's health, you've
got Gafford kind of underperforming. It's just a lot of fours,
and it does, again feel like a roster setup. That
I mean, it's it's not designed to make things easier
functionally for Cooper Flag again two years in a row.
Now we're going in where it's like, I just I
don't know that it's it's it's it doesn't feel like
trial by fire, like on purpose, because like why would
you do that too? You know what I mean? Like
it feels like they're making it deliberately hard on him,
but I don't know how deliberate that is. It's just
this is a weird collection of players and it doesn't
seem to suit a Flag all that well. I do
think if Irving is healthy, you get a lot more
reps where he's playing off of somebody, and maybe you
then get to see the defensive ceiling that everybody thought
was an absolute given. If flags lyft on offense isn't
quite as high. And we come out of this coming
this following year thinking even more highly of him right,
because well, we've seen him exceed expectations as an offensive playmaker,
as an on ball guy, and then the defense showed
up second year, and then we're primed to put him
on all NBA teams this third year or whatever. If
he doesn't do that this season, then you're still relying
on Kyrie Irving to be healthy and productive for most
of this year and to be on the team. Because
he still profiles as a trade candidate. There's plenty of
teams that could u him. So this is more strictly you.
Speaker 1: Think Portland takes a look, kicks the tires.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know again, he just he fits a
tight So yeah, that this is this is a more
narrow thing. But as I was going through the rosters
around the league, this one just just jumps out of me.
Is why why is it built this way? Like if
they drafted more as Johnson too, who like I don't,
I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, that's the what seems just as a fit with
Cooper Flag, I think it's terrible. And then also I
don't that is the you don't necessarily make that pick
because it's at the best fit with Cooper Flag. I mean,
Brydon Burry's and that's bot I think would have been
the right call there. That being said, the Santi aldomitrate
is the one that I still just can't That was
my well, what is going You can talk your stuff,
all right, if they think Marcus Sasser is going to
provide some shooting and not gonna get trucked. Defensively, they're
another team and maybe they're just a suit they're assuming
that they'll go about more of their business in the
middle of the season. But they're another team where this
just sort of feels unfinished because you're every I would
echo everything you said. I like, defensively, they're gonna be
huge and pretty versatile when you look at the guys
that are on the roster.
Speaker 2: Right, we said that exact thing last year, too, right,
it was I remember when we talked about Dallas. It
was like, they're gonna rebound the shit out of the ball.
They're gonna be big at every position, they're gonna defend.
The offense is gonna suck, and maybe they win forty
games that way. It's like the personnel's kind of different,
but it's also kind of the same. Like going in
I can imagine we might say very similar things about Dallas,
except Kyrie Irving will be there, Like you know what
I mean, they kind of have recreated the same problems
they faced last year, but with just some new personnel.
Speaker 1: Right, and they haven't like do they They were so
they were twenty sixth in offensive rebounding last year? Is
that like something that you see them improving upon with
this but like something al Dama's not gonna give you
much of that, maybe more as Johnson helps you there
a little bit, but it's confusing. The one thing I
have wondered, and I don't know if this puts their
off season a better light, but if you're incredibly concerned
about the health of Derek Lively moving forward, does that
help explain the off season a little bit more?
Speaker 2: I mean a little bit. But it's not like a
lot of these fours that we just listed are also
potential fives, you know, Like I think if I mean,
maybe Johnson, I can't claim to have watched a heck
of a lot of college basketball this year, but maybe
Johnson is someone they view as I don't know, in
like a Colin Murray Boyle's mold where it's like he's
not really a five, but he can do it, you know,
like like Murray Boyle's is. If Johnson is anywhere close
to the defender of Murray Boyles is like, then I
retracked everything I said. You have your center. He's not
a power forward all that stuff, but it doesn't seem
like that's the profile for him. I do agree that
this seems like a situation you can trade yourself out
of because teams will be interested in Washington and Marshall.
I think as long as you're not trying to get
first back or anything like that, you can clean up
the roster that way. But they're not out a wings
here like Max Christy and Caleb Martin. I guess who
really like is kind of a forore even might add
him to the pile of power forwards. Really, so Marcus Sasser,
i'd like, is he you can use him as a
combo guard? I guess I just I don't know. It's unbalanced.
Speaker 1: There's a lot on Kyrie Irving being healthy and then
Sergio de la Area gonna be good right away. There's
a lot of that happening here, and I guess maybe
that speaks to when you're looking at Sergio, Oh, we'll
have the runway or maybe they'll give Marcus Sassar more
agency than he ever had in Detroit because Massiu Jerry,
by way, the moves that made sense. Hiring Massiu Jerry,
sure firing Jason Kidd. I won't claim to know enough
about what Dusty May is gonna bring as a head
coach just yet. We'll dig into that like before the
season starts. Those are all fine. I just this roster
offensively specifically again and then also just getting ready to
even if Kyrie Irving is playing, aren't you getting ready
to kind of pull your hair out at why as
Cooper flag like your two or your three? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, dijita vous a little bit. We were asking the
same questions last.
Speaker 1: Year with the fourth overall pick, my second overall pick
in the most confusing teams NBA draft. I feel like
you're gonna be able to guess where we're going with this,
the New Orleans Pelicans.
Speaker 2: So are the comments.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing I don't understand, like the let's start here,
this is not They're not confusing in the sense that
we have to sit here and demand that they should
have traded everybody at this point. I think that's a
reasonable thing to say, is they should have held some
kind of fire sale grant. Their transactions this year have
been basically exercising Karla Makovich's team option, declining Kava Luni's
team option, and re signing DeAndre Jordan on a two
year deal not a one year deal, so that they
would get They were so worried about the market that
he had that they had to give him two guaranteed years,
which more power to him being a great locker room presence.
And that is believable because remember what happened in Brooklyn,
where not only did Kyrie and Kevin Durant force the
Nets to sign him, they both took Kyrie took less
and Durant lowered his uh like he took an incentive
based structure so that the Nets could overpay DeAndre Jordan.
So this is not There is a precedent for needing
DeAndre Jordan in the locker room apparently. I'm not saying
it's good, but there is a precedent for it. What
is I saw and she's no longer employed by the team,
but I saw. Teresa Witherspoon had a quote the other
day about like, yeah, if they finally give the keys
to Zion Williamson, and I'm in my mid like, well,
hold up, that's that's not the way that this roster
is built. There's okay. If de Jontay Murray's there and
Trey Murphy's they're okay, fine, Like you've Jeremiah Fears and
Derek Queen. That is the antithesis of trying to build
around Zion Williamson. I'm not saying they should have traded
him for pennies on the dollar if there's no value there,
But at the same time, I'm kind of saying, what
is like pick a I want to say pick a lane,
but I don't even know like what laying they're in
right now. It's not even like they're just they're careening,
like from side to side or they've already gone off
the cliff. I don't look at like they don't. If
you point to anyone on this roster, or trying to
point to anyone on this roster and say, who is
our north star, the person that's gonna guide us our
decisions moving forward, the closest you get to an answer,
it's still Zion Williamson. It can't be like Trey Murphy
fits everywhere, but he's not high enough end to say
that's the guy that's gonna direct like kind of how
we flesh out the rest of our roster and now
if you wanted to go whatever this current direction is
is my god, did you need to acquire more shooting
than you have on the roster right now? There is
Trey Murphy and that's it, Like if you if we
want to go, we want to talk about it. Herb Jones, Yeah,
Jordan Poole before he got to New Orleans. So that's
just like they were better when de Jontay Murray came
back next season and so having that kind of organizer type,
but where where does that even fit into what we
just have Derrek, Queen, Enzion Williamson and Jeremiah Field Fears,
all three of whom can cannot shoot. I don't want
to say that about Jeremiah Fears, but he's not He's
nowhere near a knockdown shooter. His game is pride on
I can get to the basket and my liveable when
I'm in the lane. I don't know what this team
is trying to do. And this this is kind of
an extension of do you remember this was like a
month before the trade deadline this past year where it
came out I think was Chris Haynes had the report
that the Pelicans were basically closer business and little did
we know that he was also talking about the offseason
as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, the core issue here seems to be it's
at the top, right, it's the ownership management thing, Like
Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver get put in. It's true Weaver, right,
that's who that's who's there kind of him and Dumars
are splitting the gig? Do I have that right? I
know what It's like everything you said is right about
how the roster makes no sense. I would even add
that it used to be that you had to build
such a specific team around Zion that it like no
roster could make sense with Zion and without you know,
so that was always a huge challenge with him. Now
it's like you still have to do that. He still
probably is there North Star, only he's not good enough
to justify being built around in that way.
Speaker 1: Good news.
Speaker 2: The Pelicans aren't trying to build anything. They're not doing anything,
so so like the inaction is confusing because it well,
let's let's let you speak for the Pelicans right now,
do you think they believe that this roster is good enough?
Or is it a situation where it's like or it
makes sense and has upside and whatever, or there is
a situation where, like the ownership management situation is so
out to lunch that it's like we're not even like
making calls. We're all like Joe Dumars has like has
passed his expiration data as a decision maker and it's
just like we're not doing anything because we're just collecting
a check and whatever. You know what I mean, Like,
is it just everybody is asleep at the wheel or
is it do.
Speaker 1: You think Troy Weavers at that point of you could
make that case for Joe Dumars and Gail Benson, But
do you think Troy Weavers that like don't you think?
Speaker 2: Well, but is he empowered to do anything? Maybe is
the sub question?
Speaker 1: Je Bay is on this team, so why not?
Speaker 2: I just this is why it's confusing. I don't even know, Yeah,
we don't know what they think about this team, Like.
Speaker 1: Well, they're acting as if they are they're acting they're
not necessarily acting as if they think they're good. They're
acting as if they believe they already have the big
picture talent in place, and both by the way, both
vantage points would be wrong. You're not good. And I
thought there Queen and Jeremiah Fears were fine last year.
They each had their bright spots, and I think I'm
higher on Queen than Jeremiah Fears at this point, I
don't look at any one of them and say, that's
like a potential cornerstone right there. Maybe they are, but
you don't have enough information and so you don't even
have so forget if we throw if we give them
the benefit of the doubt and say, and I'm not
prepared to give them better for the doubt. But let's
hypothetically say they're not sitting there thinking they are good.
They know that they don't measure up to the rest
of the Western Conference. They are then sitting here kind
of like thinking Detroit Pistons before, like their breakthrough season,
not last year, but the year before, where it's like,
you know, we haven't been good yet, but there's no
reason to do anything nuclear to sell off guys, or
to go consolidate into someone who might be our face
of the present, or to pair with Zion or to
pair with Maybe they fear uh, fear Fear Fear, feel
about Fears or Queen with you need like, But that's
wrong too because you don't have like, You don't have
that blue chip talent that you could definitively say and
that's not This doesn't mean that every move needs to
be geared towards we either need another star or we
need this super high end youngster. But you gotta do something.
And if you believe that Jeremiah Fears and Derek Queen
are the future, let's just let's just assume they believe
that is why do you not have more shooting on
this roster? Why are you not working the Like Anthony
Simon's went for six point three million dollars six million
dollars year. I'm not saying he would have taken that
to go to New Orleans, but like, you could have
got out there and done something anything. Their financial situation,
I wouldn't say is enviable, but they're not so close
to the tax. They're eight point four million dollars beneath
the tax. That is, you could have signed somebody better
than DeAndre Jordan. You could have gone out and tried
to make a trade without attaching meaningful draft equity to
the assets. That were going out. I just don't. I
don't get any of this, and I would have this
isn't I don't want to veer into just do something territory.
But wouldn't you have been more encouraged if they just
took the jah Morant type package or Tray Young type
package for Zion, because then you can point to, you
know what, Oh, they're fully invested in Queen and Fears.
I don't know if I feel good about it, but
at least they're showing that that's what they're fully invested in.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I think the moment he had
positive value, if that ever happened at any point this
past season, they should have traded him. But well, you
I think you're right that the moment Zion had neutral value.
They should have moved him, just because it organizes your
team in a way that like, you're probably wrong, But
then you do get to say, all right, it's Queen
and Fears and we're going to figure it out around
these guys, and we can we can make roster decisions
with them at the center of it. Speaking of which,
who's playing center for this team? That's another confusing aspect.
Speaker 1: Andre Jordan, right, thank you.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, what about the other forty six and a
half minutes of the game, Like it's fine, oh, perfect, great, Yeah,
that was a problem. That's been a problem since time
I memorial. The Pelicans to me feel like, do you
ever have like a like a just like a basic
office job that maybe like there's a it's like a
branch office and there's like a middle manager in charge,
and morale sucks, like the person in charge doesn't really
have any power, is not motivated to improve anything, and
like the copier doesn't work. It's like one out of
every three days the copier works, and it's like we
need this fixed, and everybody's like I don't want to
fill out the work order, like I just it's just
fuck it. We'll just we'll get through it. Like that's
what the Pelicans feel like to me, where like nobody's
motivated or empowered to actually do anything, and so you
just kind of like zombie walk along and and don't
have any like any incentive to or ambition to change
anything or fixtion.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that there are they in a
position to even think that way, because it's not like
the if we're talking about I guess Portland's at the
top of the list now when you're talking about relocation.
But New Orleans is the team, and I'm not advocating
for it, but that is the market that is pointed
to as if relocation, like there shouldn't be a basketball
team in New Orleans. And so if you're is that
what you're trying to do, fast track yourself out out
of here?
Speaker 2: In a major league situation where ownership is trying to
tank the teams, it gets, it gets moved if you
have to.
Speaker 1: Be I would be curious to know what Pelicans fan
out there is reasonably high on this team to the
point that show me the pathway to the Pelicans being
a top eight team in the Western Conference next season.
It does not exist. It does not exist.
Speaker 2: It's it's yeah, it's it's I mean, hasn't the like
the main the overarching issue with New Orleans for however
long been that like it's not the top priority of ownership.
It's because the Saints. It's the Saints that mat and
the Pelicans get like reduced staff or like staff pulling
double duty for both organizations, and they're just like the
little brother that no one's paying attention to isn't like
that's that feels like.
Speaker 1: Tick to that this team makes no sense and is
confusing as hell.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, well, nobody's it. I don't know what else
to say. This is like I think the first comment
Rome said, uh, there's nothing confusing about the Pelicans. They're
a terrible team. Like, yeah, maybe we've overthought it a
little bit. They are just bad. Okay, is it my pick? Yea,
Pelicans are on my list for sure. Okay, Uh, let's go.
Let's go Phoenix Suns here. Oh, this is enough.
Speaker 1: You're trying to insinuate that giving up a twenty thirty
three first round pick for the right to pay Miles
Bridges is in Well, Dan, it's not.
Speaker 2: The first bullet point on my list of notes, but
it is the first sub bullet right under Bridges trade.
There's giving up twenty thirty three first is right there. Uh,
that's that's another one where I've mentioned how, like Washington,
we were kind of like, all right, things are making
sense here. For a brief moment last year it seemed
like the Suns were, to our surprise, like functional and
had made some good decisions. And I mean, I I
don't know how you've we've talked a little bit about it,
like Colin bless by, Colin Gillespie a new contract, great,
Jordan Goodwin great, happy with that too, Mark Williams don't
love it, but not a crippling number there. Uh. Their
return on Kevin Durant seemed fine, like Dylan Brooks played
pretty well for them. Mala Watch has looked like pretty
darn interesting in summer League. He's hitting threes like.
Speaker 1: He's humble, did you see it? Humble as hell? Where
he's talking about no such there's no such thing as
being too good for summer league. Automatically love him.
Speaker 2: Can we you know what, can we make you trash
your pick based on no? No, No, I will not, I
will not. Let's take an official stance right now. I think,
come on, Malawatch is like he's it needs to be
one of our guys. I think I think it's not
too late. He's he has the official Hardwood Knocks endorsement.
He's he's he gets it.
Speaker 1: But now it's this team used to have that endorsement,
like last year was the oh we were so wrong
about them, and that they played hard and they they
had non bigs offensive rebounding and they they were gritty
on defense, and like, what is Dylan Brooks doing is
to look at Jordan Goodwin's locking people up and it's
it's not the fault of the players that we're here,
but it's just it's tough to make them. I can't
give them the Hardwood Knocks over arching stamp endorsement stamp
just because of like the Miles you might be on
Mute Grant or.
Speaker 2: Phoenix Phoenix as a team because Bert's over here whining
he doesn't like the Suns either. No, Phoenix as a
team doesn't get it. But but Malawatch has the stamp.
We'll come up with an official stamp. We like him,
doesn't mean it's to be great.
Speaker 1: He plays more minutes this year. Him or Mark Williams.
Speaker 2: I mean, I really hope it's Malwatch. But also I
really like oh so a Gadaro too, So.
Speaker 1: That's not That's another thing they That's not the question.
I was a factory, Mark factory in Mark Williams's injury
history and probably the investment you have in malea Watch
long term, I'm gonna pick this. He's our guy. The
answer is Mile Watch Grant. You know what you hesitated,
that's disappointing. Yeah, I mean, I just well because I'm
a little reticent to suggest the Suns will make the
right decisions. That's right, he didn't go to Michigan State,
so that he did not it really I want to
make this more complicated, but the glaring like red light
of giving up that twenty thirty three first to bring
in Miles Bridges for Royce O'Neil and Grayson Allen and
that whatever worst of the worst of the worst twenty
nine pick whatever it was, like I would take the
picks out. I'm not trading, uh, Grayson Allen and Royce
O'Neil for Miles Bridges, like start there, right. And then
I'm also because part of the reason, not just like
the Miles Bridges of it all is just like I
think you and I are both like I'm not trading
for that guy.
Speaker 2: You're not giving me that guy like that. I just
I don't want him on the team. That's one this
this Sun's team like had middling offensive performance because it
shot the three like pretty well, and you just gave
up two guys that you could rely on to do
that for one that you can't. And then on top
of that, the pick where this was kind of your like,
of course it's your Alaska's, it's the furthest out you
could move. Now to give that up just tells me
that like much like the Wizards, it's kind of like, oh,
you did just kind of show us who you are again,
like you had you had a moment there where we've
thought things were being done sensibly and now it's nope,
we're willing to just fire this pick, you know, into
space and we'll just continue having no outs, you know,
for for for Miles Bridges, For Miles Bridges, it's crazy.
Don't trade with Charlotte.
Speaker 1: That's that's where I'm miss Yeah, that's the moral of
the story for for Phoenix. Yeah, look, if you there
probably would have been if we were sitting here and
they didn't do really any They brought back cong Lesbie resign,
Mark Williams resigned, Jordan Goodwin, they're banking on common mile
Watch getting better. I don't know that we would have
criticized them heavily. We would have said, yeah, this is
they were in the middle of the Western Conference, Like,
it makes sense that they didn't fire their best trade
chips that were left unless there was this name that
made sense that could elevate them into a different tier
in the West. I think some Suns fans might have said,
we want to see them do more. They were talking
about how happy they were with this past season, which
is like, yes, they did surprise people, but like at
the end of the day, they were a first round
playoff stepping stone, and so not taking a bigger swing
would have been disappointing to some. The alternative of doing
nothing beats the quote unquote big swing that they just took.
Because this is a team and I've said this many times,
maybe he will prove me wrong on the basketball court
in Phoenix. I think Miles Bridges is one of the
biggest empty calorie guys in the league, not the single
biggest one. You were just hovering around the bottom five
in first chance offense, So forget about the offensive rebounding opportunities.
This is not someone I've seen things about like he's
a little bit better passer than you think, and he's
gonna give them some like dribble penetration. It's not going
to be a Charlotte was just better statistically without him
on both sides of the ball. So trading for him
is one I the off court stuff, the felody, domestic violence,
him pleading no contest like that is that that should matter.
But if you move that aside and look at the
basketball element, if you wanted to trade for him, okay,
to give up your best trade chip to do it
makes zero sense. And it's like you said, it's the
Wizards kind of maybe re revealing who they were. But
in this case, it's what made you think like, at
least with the Wizards, there was an there had to
be an urgency because you were slow playing it maybe
for too long for Ted Deansis's liking Phoenix just we
were just exited in a miniature era of just awful
vibes where they mortgaged everything to the hilt and got burned.
And so you decided to do more of it for
what the right to maybe finish sixth in the Western Conference,
which I think if most people did their Western Conference
tiers right now, they're not gonna beat the Timberwolves or
the Nuggets, or the Spurs or the thunder. Are they
gonna be ahead of the Lakers or the Rockets. So
like we're already talking seventh type territory like this is
they're confusing in the sense that I don't know. Were
they so high on their own supply that they thought
Miles Bridges is the difference between what and what like
between where they were and maybe flirting with fifty winds
because there's no way that's the case.
Speaker 2: No. I wish that I could have thought about nominating
them for this because I don't love the Mark Williams
move and been like, whoa, well, what about Mala watching
a guitaro and then not done it because that's not
sufficient and yet here and the Bridges move is just
like I can't. I can't get there on any level.
Who's your next pick? All right?
Speaker 1: So I think this is gonna enrage some people. I'm
gonna go with the Los Angeles Lakers on my list.
I actually do not It's risky, but I don't have
a problem with the money they gave Walker Kestler one
hundred and thirty million dollars just first starting caliber center
who is statistically can be a transcendent like rimp protector
and defensive base sure. Giving up control of four first
round picks to outright two swaps insane, insane. I don't
care that you Lukanchich on your team. He's not signed
that deep to when those picks are going to convey,
then to go out, and when we're in a market
where you have Norman Powell who just made an All
Star team, couldn't get more than one guaranteed year. Mam
who gets four guaranteed years. I like Mamu. I think
the deal is a little rich. I like Mama four
guaranteed years. Quentin Grimes who need to sign the qualifying
offer last year, four guaranteed years, Colin Sexton two guaranteed years,
which wouldn't you have rather just had Marcus Smart back?
Based on what your team needs? What is this team's identity? Also,
here's another question, what are they doing at backup five?
I get the JJ Reddick probably didn't like DeAndre Ayton.
DeAndre Ayton is a backup versus DeAndre Ayton as a
starter when you also lost Jackson Hayes. What is the
plan here? Is it to downsize with Vando? Is it
to use Mama with the five? Because I got news
for people that's not gonna fly. You don't have like
Desire Williams signing. I really liked that. Being linked to
matist Thibele makes sense them being linked to Jonathan kaminga
and being willing to give up a twenty thirty two
swap to make a sign and trade happen. No, that
doesn't make any sense. I they're confusing because for a
team that needs to operate as if they're trying to
maximize Luka Doncics's window, they feel like they chose this
weird middle build that the end result. I'm open to
the idea they might be better during the regular season
reason Luca remain healthy. Sure in the playoffs, I don't
see a team right now that can win more than
a single playoff series. And if I had to guess
we're gonna do, you should subscribe to our patron because
we're gonna be doing the Superstar Trade Draft at the
end of this month. I don't think. I honestly think
this is the off season that is putting Luca's future
in LA like it's the now in the coffin. This
is gonna be another two season thing, Max, because this roster,
what is there? I don't I keep seeing they they
rebuilt this roster in the image of Luka Doncic. How
was Luka Doncics blindfolded and just pointing at names on
a board and that's what you did. I don't like,
how is this team if it was rebuilt in the
image of Luka Doncic aside from getting Walker Kessler, where's
the evidence that, Like, how is Colin sext and someone
who is in the image of Luke? Why is we're
quite and grinding him so tight when he was in
Dallas that yeah, we needed to bring him, bring him on.
I don't And by the way, way this this franchise
might be the best in the league at watching the
complete opposite and decide like happening in the playoffs and decide, yo,
we don't really need like true wings, like those are
that important.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know how long the list of
players in the league is.
Speaker 1: I forgot about it. Yeah, that's Cavanloney who couldn't get
into Pelicans rotation.
Speaker 2: Ye great locker room presence, can't. I don't think you.
Speaker 1: Can play them anymore Looney or DeAndre Geordan.
Speaker 2: I mean that's a it's gonna go down to the wire.
That might depend on if if somebody gets a game
at the end of the year. Uh, I don't. It
does seem like Luca put his thumb on the scale
for Walker Kessler yes, I mean, like I think, I
think that has to be a factor. I just don't
think you should ever let like Lebron's a bad GM.
Like the players are terrible at this, the guys because
they don't think about it in terms of like, well,
if we do this, not only are we paying him
the money, we're giving up all the assets that we
would need to have the flexibility for other moves to
make this team better down the line, like Luca's not.
I don't think, I mean, I'm just I'm just totally speculating,
but like, I don't feel like players think about those
things like the actual cost of going go get the
guy that I like, and whether Kessler's the right guy
or not remains to be seen. Like I think, I
think the center depth issue is a massive problem, partly
because you can't count on him to necessarily be healthy.
I know he had like it's a shoulder injury so
that it had surgery. Whatever. It's not like he has
chronic like calf streams or whatever. But still the Senate
def behind him is terrible. I don't think you can
play MoMu as a backup center and get away with it.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Walker Kessler has averaged over thirty
minutes a game once and it was the season in
which he played five games. Yeah, and he's thirty minutes
the season he played in fifty eight games, and then
he's in the twenties. I'm not saying he can't do it,
but they treated it as like a sure thing, and
even through the lens of to take riks Risks with
Luca on board. Sure, that was an insane cost that
they gave it, Like the draft, the money you can
get me on board with that, don't have the four years,
one hundred and thirty million dollars feels based off the
track record, but you are it is an investment in
what you believe he can do, and so are the
first round picks. But if the alternative is just I
get to keep control of those four picks and not
have Walker Kessler, Yeah, what just be the Mitchell Robinson
team at that point, Like if that was the opportunity cost?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think like there are some elements here
that you can see the logic. I think in like, yes,
we understand the type of team you should build around
Luka Dancic because the MAVs did it and they made
the finals. Like it and so okay, Austin Reeves is
in the Jalen Brunson role, except he's making ten x
whatever Jalen Brunson was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he took like five million less.
Speaker 2: Than nine point seven head And I yeah, you go
get Kessler because that's you. You got to have that
center position, the room rolling guy, the paint protector, got
to have that. But like, there's unless you really think
Zion Williams is gonna fill this role, and I'm with you,
like for the price, you absolutely sign him for that,
or if you think Quentin Grimes is up for this.
I don't see the defensively versatile athletic combo forwards and
wings that will make threes and defend, Like I just
that element is just not present here. So that's really,
as much as anything why this team is confusing, because
you seem to understand some of the pieces of what
a Luka Doncicch led team should be, but you really
glossed over, maybe like the core element of what you've
got to have to make this whole thing work. So
I agree, and I haven't really thought about the is
this pushing Luca out? But in the sense that, like, so,
how do you improve this team now without moving some
of your key pieces for like not and not getting
back the best player in any of those deals because
you know Sweeten like.
Speaker 1: And also watch off their non Luca players has positive
trade value right now? Austin Reeves maybe like that. Let's
just say, Austin Reeves, does Walker Kessler have positive trade
value on this deal? I would say, TBD, Well, you're
not getting back what you gave up for Walker Kessler.
No you're not.
Speaker 2: You're not getting Yeah, I I I don't know, so yeah,
I agree, they're on my list too. All right, we
gotta get another team here. Dang, I think you took Amine,
so I got to go off the board here.
Speaker 1: You only had a list of three teams.
Speaker 2: At six, that's right, we boke All six of mine
were on your list. Let's see. Well, I mean, do
you want to talk about the Warriors?
Speaker 1: I could?
Speaker 2: I mean, because at at a base level, they're trying
to maximize Steph Curry. This is all old news. They're
trying to maximize Steph's prime, and the hope in achieving
that rest so on Lebron James choosing them. And if
he doesn't, how can you go into this season saying
anything better than what happened last year is possible, and
last year was not nearly good enough. There was that
one play in game where I was like, oh, and
I'll treasure it forever because it was a great STEPH game.
Steve is never gonna stop talking about it. How like
that was our reminder of what it felt like. That
was that was pure basketball. That's all you got really,
So I don't think you could say it's I don't know.
Really what's happened here is like the heart, it keeps
winning over the head, which I'm fine with because that's
how I think about the Warriors. But if you don't
get Lebron, what is your argument going into this season
that anything will be different and that we will be
that that better, better things can happen than we saw
last year.
Speaker 1: Is Jimmy Butler having a half season off is going
to be fresh and you catch lighting at a ball,
I'm not even and Jacksville London Brok's able to contribute, right,
which I will say about Yaxville. So after he played
twenty seven plus minutes against the Knicks the other night,
he was out there in between timeouts during Miami Toronto
summer League basically like holding the T shirt toss. He
was throwing the T shirts out in the street clothes,
so that that dude gets it. And I think that's
where at least one first place Rookie of the Year
vote alone, I just want to throw it out there.
That's that's the pathway. And by the way, the reason
I don't find them confusing is this has been their
stick for a while, is we will be.
Speaker 2: Well, we're just used to it though, We're just that
doesn't mean it's not like illogical.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, you're well, yeah, all right, you're right. So
just because I understand their their irrationality doesn't make it rational.
Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, but it's hasn't it been
the same song and dance basically every summer for the
past since they won the title. Words, we're kind of
sort of linked to this one big name, and we
weren't really all in because with Lebron it's are we
sure they're like ready to give him the non text mL.
Speaker 2: I mean, if that's a sticking point, we gotta have
a conversation.
Speaker 1: So they're confusing. But they've been confusing for a while,
and maybe that's what makes them not as confusing to
me is that they seem very content to just let
this ride off into the sunset while being mediocre, and
they're gonna, you know, let it ride out with Steph,
and that's I guess they've earned that right with four titles.
But they can't come out and just say then they
kind of have in so many ways said it, But
you can't come out and just say, yeah, we're not
trying to win titles anymore, like this is just that
would be too expensive and too risky and we'd mortgage
too much of our future for an abridged window that
might not even end up panning out. But the fact
that Steph is just when he's playing, is still very
clearly like a top ten to twelve player in the.
Speaker 2: League is well, and even if he is not, it's
it's like he's top five in giving you the feelings
you want to feel, you know, if you're a Warriors fan,
it's just like you're just every every like little you know,
three possession scoring streak in a row is just like
just scratches that little itch of like, hey, hey remember
when this was like remember when things were this way
all the time? And that's enough, honestly, I think for
like the vast majority of Warriors fans, but I nominated them,
so I have to concede that, like, from a purely
logical perspective, what they've done for the last like two
or three years, it's just like, this isn't This isn't
how a normal team should be operating.
Speaker 1: No, I'm with you there. I didn't want to get
your thoughts though on someone posts this in the discord
and now I can't find it. Okay, so I can't convert,
so kill Haws and our discord posted Lebron James. Oh no,
this is it turns out that it did not happen,
so I'm not going to bring it up. Never mind, then,
but are you still clinging to Lebron James? Using the
meaningful basketball is sort of a clue that, oh, maybe
he really is considering I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I feel like when I said that to you, you
really were like, this is this?
Speaker 1: I haven't like Grant. I've done podcasts in radio spots
where I've brought up that moment as that I was
so short was Cleveland or bust and then my co
host comes in just with this like baseless bread crumb
that I'm now clinging to and.
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's it's good to believe, it's it's
important to believe in something. I think. Uh I I
am less sure that it's gonna happen than I was
initially when like, oh my god, they're gonna do They're
gonna do a d and Lebron Like that's that's that's
how it's gonna work out. Like if you force me
to give a percentage likelihood on Anthony Davis and Lebron
being on the team next year. At that time when
that news was just breaking out of been like sixty five,
it's like overwhelmingly likely. Don't know what, you would never
bet against it, you'd be a fool. But now it's like,
it doesn't seem like Davis is going anywhere. I will say,
like getting Lebron still seems We talked about it off
air a little bit. The Warriors make as much sense
as anybody. Like Cleveland's a sentimental pick. If I had
to guess, I would just say Cleveland because I don't
know if it just yeah, he's gonna go finish where
he started, like that kind of thing. But I think
the Warriors to me are like second or third most likely,
and it may maybe the gap isn't even that big
between one and two and three and then getting Lebron.
I do think if if they are finally ready to
like put some chips on the table, maybe the next
guy that gets you know, itchy to leave a big
star is like maybe the Warriors are higher on my
list of teams I'll extend with or want to steer
myself too, because like Lebron is there, and that's more
enticing than just like well Steph in half a season
of Jimmy Butler and.
Speaker 1: Like you're talking about a Bronni consolidation trade is sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever you have to give up to get him,
I think I think you probably do it. No.
Speaker 1: I know, if I was the Warriors, I was just
try and trade for him. Right now, it's just sort
of a like.
Speaker 2: A ransom situation, like just like do you ever want
to see him again? Play with him every day?
Speaker 1: Do you ever want to see him outside of the
G League? You're gonna you're design with us.
Speaker 2: I like, Mike, don't leave you on the phone with
like one of those voice disguisers, like we have your boy.
You know what you need to do? Uh Yeah, I
don't know. I I hope they get Lebron. I don't
know how likely it is anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't Hey, look, this is why you subcribe to
our Patreon for more on bias takes Like I hope
the Warriors get Lebron.
Speaker 2: I mean, isn't that Isn't that more fun than Cleveland
unless you live in Cleveland, and then you're.
Speaker 1: Like I would say, with the exception of Miami, any
spot is more fun than Cleveland. Just because I don't
think he meaningfully improve there's that word improves their championship
equity and poetic like the poeticism of it. You can't
like the emotional component. I can't argue against it. I
just want to see something new with him, and if
you want another title with just a different team I have.
I've had people come up to me normal that's the
only place I go. Not a brag, but like at
the gym and when they try to invariably talk to
me about the NBA. I don't like Lebron. He just
plays for whichever team he wants and like Jordan was
undefeated in the finals, could be times Lebron got to
the finals and like winning a championship with all these
different franchises is incredibly difficult. So I would I want
him Golden. To see him play with Steph I think
would be high up on my League Pass rankings. But
I would love to see him go to Minnesota or Denver. Yeah,
it would be there's a lot of big Oh right,
he's a basket He's a real basketball sick go. Speaking
of Grant though, with the what is this the eighth pick, Yeah,
I'm going to go to one of Lebron James's potential
teams that has also kind of been ruled out as
one of no longer his potential teams, the Denver Nuggets.
I do find it interesting that in a summer in
which Nicoliokich has so far declined to extension for reasons,
we could talk about the financial reasons. Right now. He
can get the Donovan Mitchell Special, which would be four
years and two hundred and seventy seven plus millionllion dollars,
or he could wait next year and if he wants
to sign a full five year contract that could be
worth three hundred and fifty three point two million is
the projected total. By the way, that number is going
to go down because the NBA salary cap projection is
just keep being lowered. I love how people are still
some people are still using like the ten percent year
over year. That's not it's not happened anymore. But he
hasn't signed an extension, which last year that raised eye brows.
It should be raising eyebrows no matter what you think
he might be saying publicly. There was that that Serbian
interview that we also where he has said he wants
to retire in Denver. I don't I don't doubt those intentions.
You've done basically jack shit. You lost Tim Hardaway.
Speaker 2: Junior high Jones, Dan, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: You brought back Tias Jones and so that just leads
me to say, oh, you still need a backup point guard.
You signed Diallo and is are we but okay? Cool?
But like Spencer Jones is it? Is he part of
the planet anymore? And you still have the big note
here is Peyton Watson slowing around in the restricted free
agency market. Now I'm not criticizing or saying the Nuggets
are confusing because they haven't paid him yet. This is
how RFA works. The way the Pistons are playing with
Jayleen Duran is perfect. I know there are other teams
like the Nets and the Clippers that have been interested
in Peyton Watson, but there's been no offer sheet and
so everything has to run through the Nuggets.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I'm looking at this and thinking, you bring back
Peyton Watson? Is that just enough? Are we also assuming
that they're not gonna like there was the report from
the Steinline that well, they're not obligated to cut money
if they go into the second apron. They're inside, They're
like right at the second apron at this moment, they're
not there, but they're pretty close. Peyton Watson's getting even
if you think he gets less than Christian Brown, he's
not getting less than twenty million right to start.
Speaker 2: It would be shocking.
Speaker 1: So you're a repeater team who's blowing past the second
apron to field the same core that lost in the
first round. I'd call schnet on that. So something afoot
has to be happening here. But what is it? And
do the Nuggets come out of this? Is there any
scenery in which the Nuggets exit this off season and
you feel better about this team than you did entering
last year. And I'm struggling to find the I mean,
I like, hey, Trayvon Brazil drop thirty five yard right
and he was my guy. But to be with all sincerity,
I don't know what's going on here, but for a
team that I'm not saying they needed to do something reckless,
trade everybody. Because you and I have talked at length,
it's easy to say, well, just trade Jamal Murray or
Aaron Gordon for who and how do you how does
that make you better? But in an off season, in
a summer, when it doesn't seem like Nicolaiokich is gonna commit,
like formally commit to you in the future, like for
this to be what's happened so far, or even just
bringing back Peyton Watson or running it back in general,
it feels unsettling.
Speaker 2: I was, you know, I've been thinking lately that so
for a while there the sort of examples of what
the second apron Era was going to do to team
building were Boston, who stripped it down and maybe still
the Jayalen Brown trade is kind of like the final
move of like this is what happens or the thunder,
but then the thunder just kind of managed it well enough,
like there are still a little ways away from the
real pain. I'm starting to wonder if maybe Denver is
actually the team that you see the Like this is
quint essentially what happens when you win a championship and
things get expensive and there's just over the ensuing years,
there's just the degradation and talent as your own players
cost more and you try to hold it together and
you make these cost cutting moves that everybody hates. But
like this is where you end up, which is they
have to make a move, and it's kind of impossible
to imagine them in the aftermath being better, where it's
just you keep running into it's hard to stay even
as good as you were, because if you're even if
you're selling off pieces and trading picks or whatever, like
it's just like over time, and it's not a long time.
It wasn't that long ago they won the title. You
just you just kind of slowly by degrees, have to
tear yourself apart. And like, in some ways that's more
painful than what Boston had to do, or like what
the Thunder may eventually have to do, because it's just
there's a hopelessness attached to it, and like an inescapability
attached to it. It's it's kind of bleak, right because, like,
paint me the scenario where we go into this season
saying Denver actually has a better chance to advance a
long way than they did last year, and what's that
look like? It's just what I mean, right, they might
get out of the first but like their profile as
a more serious contender. It's just like Peyton Watson takes
a leap, they keep him, they pay what it costs,
they take he takes a leap, and they're willing to
pay massive repeater tax. Like they haven't acted like a
team that ever been willing to do that. So I
just it is they do now feel to me like
the team you'd point to, like say you're criticizing your
team or any team for doing what the Celtics did
last summer or like those kinds of moves. He's like,
do you want to end up like Denver where it's
just like you just slowly degrade and there's no you
just don't have the ability to like improve yourself like that.
That seems worse than what Boston went through because I
like looking forward, like Boston seems like like a hopeful place,
like we don't like that trade, but but you know
what I mean, it feels like Denver is just like,
what do you do?
Speaker 1: I do think part of it, though, is and we're
pointing to one move here is so yes, there has
been that slow degradation. But last years a perfect example.
Looking back, even if we ended up being too low
or I was, I don't remember where you ended up
on it. So I want to put words in your mouth.
Even if I ended up being too low on the
Cam Johnson for Michael Porter Junior twenty thirty two first
round pick deal, that was your last best bullet on
the trade market, and that's what you did. Is that
acceptable when framed through that view? And the answer is
just no. I thought Cam Johnson was fine for them
last year by like, he didn't start out too great,
but by the end of the playoffs he was one
of their most trustworthy guys. And he still ended up
the percentages from three we're still pretty hot, and he
just had moments where's, oh, okay, I see the vision here,
but now we're talking about, oh, are they gonna need
to like just dump him because we know they're not
going to go this far into the second apron and
by the way, for a team that you don't think
can make it out of the conference, No, you shouldn't
be like twenty million dollars into the second apron or
whatever it is. That's a fact. So it's not. Yes, again,
there was sort of the gradual decline from them, and
they had some injuries crop up. But it's also I
don't know that they've maximized the opportunities that were before
them since they won the title. I don't think they
have it all. They didn't negotiate with Jamal Murray at all,
Like if we want to hammer the Wizards for Trey
Young or the Spurs for Darren Fox, certain teams where
you have the margin for error where it's no, you
shouldn't have done that. But look at the Spurs because
so many of the guys are on their their rookie scales,
or Wemby's just not gonna take the escalator language in Washington.
You just haven't paid anybody yet. So not that it's
a good move, but it's, oh, we can stomach this.
You knew you were gonna get progressively more expensive. And
what was the market for Murray now? I'm not if
he wanted to explore the open market. I'm not saying
just from running the team the way things are working
right now, like they're just even Aaron Gordon on his extension,
I think he's invaluable to this team. He's also probably
more valuable to the Nugget than any other team in
the league. And so to not negotiate harder on those
types of deals when it was like the climate isn't
necessarily what it is now, but it had shifted enough
to people thought the Aaron Gordon extension, it feels as
if people were mostly okay with they might have acknowledged, oh,
the back end of that could be rough. The Jamal
Murray deal, it was actually viewed until this season is
worse than it is now, Like people are, oh, you
might have net positive value or be a slightly met
positive So there's just been too many missteps or missed
opportunities there and now I don't know how you get
better is the answer. Like that's why they're confusing and
the fact that they've done so, Look, who's the best
shooter on Like, Okay, it's not Jamal Like aside from
Jamal Murray and Nikole Jokic, you have Cam Johnson. Like
I get is that enough shooting? I guess in an
offense when the Kohle Jokic, it doesn't matter, You're just
gonna be top three.
Speaker 2: It's depth and defense, depth and defense for them, like
nice too. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know.
The thing is, like I guess, sort of implicit in
what I've been saying of like, this is what happens
if you just try to hold it together. Uh. In
the apron era, if they had done the opposite and
moved Murray or or played hardball with Gordon, like, we
might be in a situation where it's like Yokic isn't
even on this team anymore because he's just like forget it,
you know, like I can't win here. You guys are
going in a different direction by trading all these players
that I view as integral to our whole operation, and
you force him out sooner it's kind of I mean,
I don't know. And in a roundabout way, this is
just illustrative of the corner that the apron era sort
of allows you to paint yourself into where there isn't
like a good way. There's no there's no like there's
a way that doesn't hurt in some fashion to to
sort of go forward after you've been successful and you
have expensive players because they were good and helped you
win at a high level, Like this is just where
you end up.
Speaker 1: Do you think Wemby's painted Yokic into a corner where
now he yes, he's gonna need to take a pay cut.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know you guys talked about this a
little bit, but like I I my suspicion is that
I wasn't surprised that Wemby did what he did. If anything,
I was surprised he didn't take an even bigger discount.
I gotta believe this was the largest discount he felt
he could take without incurring the wrath of like every
other player.
Speaker 1: The players Union, yeah, which already wasn't happy by it, right,
Which I think that's what this was. This is off
topic a little bit, but we got a lot of
pushback from that, saying like, why are we criticizing what's
happening with the Bucks and Gary Trent Junior? But why
isn't it salary caps or a convention with what Jalen
Brunson and Victor Woman Yama did. I just wanted to
point out I didn't know that that was a thing.
It was a more common response than I thought, and
some people were like, pretty I don't want to use
the word hostile, like they were pretty passionate about it. One.
I think the bigger difference is those players were already
under contracts with these teams, and Jalen Brunson's case, he
took the maximum allowed to him at the time. There's
no the The issue is, and now, if we find
out that the Spurs and Wemby or the Knicks and
Brunson have an agreement in place, you sign something like
when you're like inking these contracts or electronically signing these
contracts that said there is no other agreement in place.
It's apparently a big stipulation when you're signing minimum deals specifically,
which is what Gary Trent Junior was on. And the
other thing is that Gary Trent Junior then proceeded to
get like Victor O Miyama had a Gary Tran Junior
signed a three year minimum deal or something, and he
just said like, yeah, this is not what I'm worth.
I could make more, but I'm signing this three year
minimum deal. There's actually nothing wrong with it. Like Wemby
is saying I'm taking this for the life of this deal.
It's still technically the maximum allowed or close to it.
It just doesn't have the hypotheticals in this. The same
thing with Jalen Brunson, like the Gary Trang Junior when
he did get paid, Jalen Brunson and Victor Miyam are
being paid below market money. Let's say characters jug got
way above his market value. So like, that's just I was.
I don't they seem like apples and oranges situations to
be either all looped under the same umbrella of is
like do players need to take less? Or like, is
this a way to gain the system in the case
of the bucks, so that if you're good and you're
trying to maximize the window, can you get guys who
are implact players to come in a lower number. But
I was surprised that it was more of a common
refrain than I had. Honestly, I hadn't even thought about, well,
what's the why isn't what Wemby's doing or what Jolen
Brunson did salary cap circ convention.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I think it's kind of apples and orangesy.
It's also kind of like when what about ism is
taken to like an even stupid or extreme where it's like,
well but how about this, like why aren't you That's
like they're not the same. It's Gary Trent's situation is
he's being paid far more than he is worth after
taking deals that one of them was maybe like it's
a player last year, yeah right, so and and whereas
like a player sacrifice, like it's I get it, Like
I guess, I guess on some level they share the
fact that a player is taking less than he could get.
But unless you're willing to show how Brunson and Wemby
are like gonna be made whole or more than whole
on the back end with some other deal that's already
been agreed to, this is not the same thing, right
even if so, let's let's not just signing a below
more market value, it's a contract. It's doing that knowing
that you will be paid above market or paid in
some other way as a result of taking that deal.
Speaker 1: And maybe that becomes an issue with Jalen Brunson on
his next deal, But when he's extension eligible next summer,
the Knicks probably give him a max deal unless he's
want to take less can you sit there and say definitely,
Like Jallen Brunson isn't a max player, why would you
get right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like it's such a difference of degree, Like
if Jalen Brunson had a terrible year going into when
he's eligible to sign his next contract, you'd still be like,
he's still worth it. You know.
Speaker 1: The Bucks went through this a little bit with Bobby Porus,
and we even saw the Clippers with Nicholas Batoom when
those guys ended up signing deals though they were at
least a round market value, right, we're looking at this garage,
at the four guaranteed years that way above market values.
The issue I didn't mean that they're else there. I
have one more team on my list. Do you have
another team?
Speaker 2: I could like vamp and pick one, but let's just
talk about your last one. Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised we haven't talked about them yet, But maybe
the bar solow that we didn't.
Speaker 2: Think as well. I mean, this is I don't want
to cut you off, but this is one where it's
like you could just make the case that they're bad
and stupid and it's not that confusing and we're used
to it, but go ahead.
Speaker 1: Look anytime that like your big offseason move outside of
the draft is waving Demard rozen and then potentially stretching
his salary so that you can make sure you're not
in the luxury tax for a twenty something win team. Fireworks, Baby,
I don't Here's here's the thing. I don't actually know.
This is why they're being taken Solow. They're still confusing
as hell because I don't understand the theory of this
team and the I felt so bad for Kings fans.
I didn't watch a ton of him in Summer League,
but there was a game where I, like Darius A.
Cuptry just not looked like he was engaged at all
the defensive end or anything, and I was just like,
oh my god, Kings fans need like some type of
a reprieve from this shit show. You can't write them
off based on that. I like Nee Clifford still like
the maxim right, no good. Find Dylan Cardwell, who was
pissed after one of the games, which if you're gonna
get mad after some of league, I respect it.
Speaker 2: You have that guy has to be on this team
like to just to make sure there's always going to
be a pulse. He absolutely provides that, Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1: What you could sit here and say is what did
you want them to do? The answer is going to
be blow it up. Do any of their individual players
have value in a vacuum? And that's fair, that's why
they're being taken so low. But they talked about a
lot as just what Scott Perry's vision for this roster
is going to be moving forward. I still have no
idea what that vision entails. And if we're sitting here
in the middle of July and we know that they're
not planning anything bigger, just because you did waive to
Martos and you couldn't find a trade candidate for him,
or the plan wasn't to then use him and trade
it his full number, Like I thought the precious Chua
deal was fine two years and eleven million bucks and
he had played some really good minutes for them. Time
will tell what whether Darius A. Cuff Junior was the
right pick. It's just you know that they're not trying
to be good and that they're they've kind of boxed
themselves into a corner. But I look at this team,
I'm just like, what is actually going on? Like what
what is the identity. First of all, they don't have
a defensive identity. I don't know, like forget about what
is their offensive identity.
Speaker 2: It's it's I mean to me, what's happening here, if
you want to be as nice about it as possible
is they're kind of just waiting it out because I
don't think. I don't you can't trade Levine for anything,
at least right now. Maybe that changes if he is
great in the first half and somebody's willing to pay this,
you know, half of his his salary after the trade
deadline or less than that. Actually, Sabonis, I don't think
has positive trade value like Kegan Murray of all people,
like was untouchable a couple of years ago, And but
I don't know if he has positive trade value, Like
he has to play himself into like being tradeable, and
I don't think want to trade him just as a
threshold issue. I think you're just kind of waiting for
some of these contracts to get closer to their conclusions,
and like that's not the You certainly cannot cannot attach
draft assets to move off of these bad contracts that
you stuck yourself with. You just have to sit there
and wear it until until they're movable for something that
doesn't compromise your future. So like, it's it's confusing how
they got here. It's confusing how they empowered the people
that contributed to getting them here, Like Doug Christy is
still the coach.
Speaker 1: Like I don't like.
Speaker 2: I guess maybe maybe the logic there is like we
know we can't do anything, so why go get Like
it doesn't even matter who the coach is. Like that
feels kind of crazy to me because you do have
a rookie in a cuff that, in theory is gonna
be like he's got the keys, I think, so you
definitely want like a better developmental environment for him. But
this is just sort of mess. It's it's confusing as
to what's confusing is like how did it get this bad?
That's that's that's hard to fathom because it took so many,
so many great contributors over so many years to put
them into the condition.
Speaker 1: What was the inflection point for them? Do you think
it was the decision to move on from Mike Brown
and everything sort of snowballing from there.
Speaker 2: I I don't know that Mike Brown would have saved this,
you know, I.
Speaker 1: Think, but think about what that led to the relationship
with dearon Fox.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you really wanted to go back,
it might just be the Halliburton for Sabonis trade, because
they've made a decision at that point that like the
type of player we believe we should be led by
is Fox and then Sabonis, and so we will then
surround them with Derozen and Levine and that type. And
like maybe if you just picked Tyre's Halliburton, you build differently.
I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't honestly, I didn't see the Tyre's Haliburton trade
coming up. I'm sure King's fans really appreciate you.
Speaker 2: And that, I mean, that was terrible at the time. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Can I provide a peak behind the curtain though, of
your loyal of your actual respect for the King.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: We have a new merch line that is going to drop,
hopefully shortly, and Grant and the test merch that is
being sent to him as we speak, hopefully there They
are team themed, So that's your little peak behind the curtain.
Grant picked four teams and the Kings were one of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't follow up in the moment when I when
I actually wish we wanted passure. I was just like,
is this like a bit are you kidding?
Speaker 2: It's a great design. Sorry, sorry, I love great design.
The logo it works perfectly because it's because the lettering
makes sense. It like looks a lot like the logo,
like the actual King's script and logo on first look.
I don't want to give too much away, but it
jumped out of me like that's a good one, and
so I had to have it. I you know, I
don't discriminate. I'm not listening. My anti King's bias does
not extend to good logos.
Speaker 1: And and we've established that you are a fashion used
to too, absolutely, I mean look good, feel good.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 1: So just to get us to ten teams, I want
to nominate another one very quickly. I'm kind of balancing
back and forth. I think some people are gonna pick
the pistons. I want to talk about that.
Speaker 2: Well, so let's real quick, let's pick them, because I
do I did. I did kind of have them out
of the corner of my eyes. I was looking at
just a list. Is what's confusing about them? I don't
think anything's confusing to me about how they're handling Jalen Duran,
because I think this means they're drawing an appropriately hard
line on what they're willing to pay him. That part's fine,
just the it's kind of been a few years of
this issue of like just put the right kind of
support staff around kid Cunningham, you know. And we can't
be that critical because they won sixty games, But is
that a lot? It seems like a decent number, you know,
it didn't amount youer than seventy four, but still fier
than seventy four, but more than more than fifty nine. Uh,
it just you. So Tobias Harris goes out like they've
chosen John Collins. I'm doing this off the top of
my head. I should have our transaction lists open here?
Speaker 1: Who are the other Isaiah Joe? They get in there right,
which ends up confused.
Speaker 2: For them essentially swapped out Isaiah Stewart, which I'm okay with,
especially after some of that reporting that like he was
pissed off about his minutes in the playoffs and Paul
reid Is was playing over him and it's a lot cheaper,
So I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1: I also think, so here can I give you what
I think might be a hot take is I am
more confused at this point by the Miami Heat that
I am the Detroit Pistons. I ultimately would have settled
on the Miami Heat because, well.
Speaker 2: But you fully understand why the Heat did what they did.
It's just a bad decision.
Speaker 1: No, it's a bad decision. But then what have they done? Like?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Like? How have they made it make sense that we're
just gonna have no ball handlers? Then why did you negotiate?
What's confusing is why didn't you negotiats? Again, it was
a market of two teams. Why weren't you negotiating harder
in the honest trade. But for the Pistons, here's what's
confusing about them. Nothing I'm with you, Nothing about the
Jayleen dur and stuff. I actually think he's John Collins.
I'm not. I'm surprised that Isaiah Stewart had so little
value on balance, But I actually like John Collins for
this team because he's a higher volume three point shooter
and so you can play him next to Jayleender and
if you want, he's a higher volume pree point shooter
than even Tobias Harris. I think this team will miss
what becomes confusing about this team is they seem to
be making a big bet on spacing, improved spacing and
internal development. I'm fine with the spacing aspect of I
think going from Tobias Harris and Isaiah Stewart to John
Collins and Isaiah Joe that's a spacing upgrade, right like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you think Kevin Hurder is going to
be better, which apparently the Pistons do, based, yeah, do you.
Speaker 1: Need contracts to trade? But that that is confusing? Yes,
I do believe. What's even so you you then make
the Karris Lavert trade. What what is confusing is they
don't have the internal development part is I don't look
at this roster and say, between Donnish, Jenkins or even
Asar Thompson, is that secondary ball that primary secondary ball
handler in place? My answer to that is still no.
And so that leads me to believe they're so far
under the tax right now? Are they waiting for the
Jalhen Duran thing to settle so that they could then
Is there another move in play here? Because their off
season does feel anti climactic. But actually, don't think that's
confusing when you do look at what the logic of
these moves would be I think that they have improved
the spacing and I don't know that they've weakened Yeah,
And I would say they probably haven't. Like Karris Lavert
was not a huge part of what they were doing
last year. So have they weakened the secondary creation around
Ky Cunningham. The answer is no, it does. The confusing
part is, well, what are you have to be waiting
for something? Because the grand theory of this team can't
be like, well, yeah, we're gonna sign John Collins, bringing
Isaiah Joe, bring back Jalen Durnham, like now we're ready
to win the championship.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think too maybe you're right that, like,
if there's anything confusing here, it's I it's maybe procedural,
just because like it to illustrate, like if they had
already agreed to terms with Jalen Durant and then still
hadn't done anything to address the lack of improved secondary playmaking,
that would feel a little weirder. And then maybe even
then the argument would just be, like, you know, contrary
to our hardballing Jalen duran Uh, we think he's got
even more secondary creation in him after the breakthrough he
made last year as an offensive player. Like, I don't
know that that would feel kind of kind of like
a weird uh double talk, but it is, I guess
because the Duran stuff sort of needs to resolve before
they go do something else. Like maybe that explains some
of it, but they couldn't. Just doesn't outside of outside
of Kate Cunningham in the postseason. Yeah, and they didn't
go get anybody else that can create a shot.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, Gary Harrison, Torrian Princes aren't going to
do that for you again. Yeah, they'll prove the creation
for you. So they're they're lightly confusing, but I'm actually
personally more confused. Bye, Miami, that's fair. Do you have
anything else that you'd like to get to before we
skidaddle out here?
Speaker 2: So we can skidattle. Great to speak to you again.
Let's not do two weeks. Well, we might have to
be two weeks off because don't want.
Speaker 1: To apologize for anyone who's coming here at two o'clock
am Eastern time, why we're not live.
Speaker 2: Hope you had a great pay good night, sleep well,
good luck, Yeah, good night and good luck. Thanks everybody
for listening, for watching. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe.
Tell your friends, tell your ammies, look forward to that
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