Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to SOS Stories of Survivors. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Serena Dansker, and today we are going to
Speaker 1: meet the survivor who walked out of an unhealthy marriage
Speaker 1: and is squared up in family court and is now
Speaker 1: shaking the pillars of Connecticut's law so that no one
Speaker 1: else has to fight alone. This is Lisa Pennycoush and
Speaker 1: this is SOS Stories of Survivors. Welcome Lisa.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Serena.
Speaker 1: I thank you so much for being here. And your
Speaker 1: story is one that resonates so deeply with me. It's
Speaker 1: such an important topic. So I just want to dive
Speaker 1: right in, and let's start by talking about your background,
Speaker 1: where you grew up, what you did for a living.
Speaker 2: Sure, yes, I grew up. I was born in New
Speaker 2: York City and lived in Stamford, Connecticut in my formative years.
Speaker 2: I call it from when I was ten years old
Speaker 2: through high school. And you know, I grew up like
Speaker 2: a lot of us did in the eighties, running around
Speaker 2: our neighborhoods with friends. And I went to college in Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: and then I launched into a career in the music
Speaker 2: and entertainment business in your city, that's exciting. It is.
Speaker 1: Tell me about that.
Speaker 2: When I left, I just went door knocking to get
Speaker 2: jobs and sales and advertising like I was told I
Speaker 2: should do. And I ended up walking into Tavern on
Speaker 2: the Green one day and they needed an event person
Speaker 2: there and so ended up working with the owner, Warner Leroy,
Speaker 2: who was the son of Mervin Leroy, who was the
Speaker 2: director of uh the Wizard of oz Oh.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So I worked with him for three years and it
Speaker 2: was very exciting, and through him I met other people
Speaker 2: and realized I wanted to do special events and ended
Speaker 2: up at Roseland Ballroom in New York City.
Speaker 1: Wow. That must have been an amazing time. Now, you know,
Speaker 1: you're busy, you're working, you're launching your career. Tell me how,
Speaker 1: you know, how.
Speaker 2: Did you meet your your ex? I actually met him
Speaker 2: right when I graduated college, really before I launched my
Speaker 2: you know, got into my career, and we started dating
Speaker 2: and we ended up dating on and off for seven
Speaker 2: years until we got married. So there were there were
Speaker 2: a few stretches in there, even for a year at
Speaker 2: one point.
Speaker 1: So you had like this this this kind of a
Speaker 1: whirlwind romance, you know, And and there were some stretches
Speaker 1: where you went back and fourth where they're red flags
Speaker 1: that you know.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately for those of us back then, we didn't have
Speaker 2: terms like that. You know, we didn't know about red flags.
Speaker 2: We didn't know about things to look out for. Nobody
Speaker 2: talked about this. You'd say, you know, he wasn't being
Speaker 2: very nice, or he didn't call and he said he would.
Speaker 2: There was no such thing as ghosting, or you know,
Speaker 2: there's so much more information today.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I know. I mean I think back to
Speaker 1: relationships that I had, and you know, just you you
Speaker 1: learned by trial and error back then. And uh, and
Speaker 1: sometimes when you're when you're caught up in the moment
Speaker 1: and you're caught in love, you know, you overlook things too.
Speaker 1: You don't see sometimes what's right in front of you.
Speaker 1: So you're in this worlwind relationship. He pops the question.
Speaker 1: You say, yes, so how does that go down?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean we had we'd broken up a few
Speaker 2: different times, and and when we got back together, I
Speaker 2: was a little bit older, twenty eight, twenty nine, and
Speaker 2: we ended up going to Europe and he asked me
Speaker 2: in Paris, Yeah, yeah, it was and you know, with
Speaker 2: the back and forth. It was really interesting. You know,
Speaker 2: people today talk about your gut feeling and your instincts,
Speaker 2: and you know, I had a lot of those feelings.
Speaker 2: But I was taken over by this fairy tale and
Speaker 2: the idea, you know, the words that people use today,
Speaker 2: love bombing and coming in and saying, you know, you're
Speaker 2: so amazing and we're in love. And it seemed so magical.
Speaker 2: And the moments that seemed magical were and the moments
Speaker 2: that weren't weren't. So I was caught up in that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's and I can see that happening so easily,
Speaker 1: you know, just when you're when you are in love,
Speaker 1: even when you get that that feeling in your gut
Speaker 1: that something is not right, but we push it away.
Speaker 1: We don't listen to it too often. So you had
Speaker 1: that feeling, I did, yeah, And you just said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's probably just.
Speaker 2: Nerves, I did, you know? Yeah, I mean there were
Speaker 2: a lot of things that happened even between being engaged
Speaker 2: and getting married, and I just pushed it away.
Speaker 1: Well, and a lot of us do, you know, And
Speaker 1: then I sometimes you have to learn by fire, you know,
Speaker 1: and you know when you figure things out that geez,
Speaker 1: you know, I fonally I would have paid attention to that,
Speaker 1: to that inner that inner voice that tries to steer
Speaker 1: you I call your guardian angel.
Speaker 2: Maybe right. I mean, it's amazing again with all the
Speaker 2: information today and what I've learned since I walked away
Speaker 2: twelve years ago.
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's talk about that. What when did you
Speaker 1: first realize, you know, that.
Speaker 2: This was not the relationship for you, not the relationship
Speaker 2: that I necessarily thought it was. Uh, you know it
Speaker 2: it was evolving over years. But and you know, I know,
Speaker 2: people in different relationships see things differently. And I call
Speaker 2: it sort of a spectrum of relationships because you have
Speaker 2: people who are in very abuse of relationships where there's
Speaker 2: physical violence, and then you have other parts of you know,
Speaker 2: relationships where it's just people are arguing or it's psychological,
Speaker 2: and so it's really hard to define unless it's obvious.
Speaker 1: How long were you married for?
Speaker 2: Well, we got married in nineteen ninety seven, so officially
Speaker 2: nineteen years, but it took a few years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like how long until you said, you know what,
Speaker 1: Well did you go for did you go to therapy?
Speaker 2: Oh? Therapy, lots of therapy. It was lots of therapy.
Speaker 1: Was he willing to go with you to therapy? Sometimes?
Speaker 2: Sometimes? And in my mind, I was never going to
Speaker 2: get divorced. It just wasn't an option. I grew up
Speaker 2: in a family of you know, my mother had gotten
Speaker 2: divorced my father, and although it didn't look like this exactly,
Speaker 2: I just was never going to do it. So I
Speaker 2: tried everything. And you had children, had three children right away?
Speaker 1: Or did you wait?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we waited a couple of years or so, and
Speaker 2: I was involved. I had my career two and so,
Speaker 2: you know, living in New York City, and the career
Speaker 2: that I had, I was very busy. I was in
Speaker 2: the entertainment business and music business. So I was very distracted,
Speaker 2: and you can do that in New York City. So
Speaker 2: it was easy not to pay attention to a lot
Speaker 2: of things. And I had the kids, and I had family,
Speaker 2: and then my mother got sick and she passed away,
Speaker 2: and so it was there was a lot of other
Speaker 2: things happening where I didn't have to pay attention so
Speaker 2: much until we moved to Connecticut.
Speaker 1: So what was the catalyst to move to Connecticut?
Speaker 2: My mother, I'd stopped working after our second child. It
Speaker 2: was just a lot My job was a twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven job. And I'm one hundred and fifty percent person.
Speaker 2: So when I had my kids, I was doing that
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty percent was doing my job, and
Speaker 2: I just I said, they need to take a break
Speaker 2: to focus on being a mom.
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful. It's being a mom's a full time job.
Speaker 2: Full time job. And so I did that. And then
Speaker 2: when my mother got sick a couple of years later
Speaker 2: or so, we ended up moving out after three kids.
Speaker 2: We weren't we didn't have the money, and we weren't
Speaker 2: going to put our kids in private school in New
Speaker 2: York City. They were in public school. That was great,
Speaker 2: but we ended up moving out of the city for
Speaker 2: more space and for the school system.
Speaker 1: Right right, So you're in Connecticut. You get a house
Speaker 1: in the burbs, if you will.
Speaker 2: And ull traumatizing for me moving out of New York City.
Speaker 1: It took a while, but you're from there, so you
Speaker 1: kind of went back to your roots. You know, how
Speaker 1: did your kids were? They were they older? Are they
Speaker 1: still young?
Speaker 2: They were ten, seven and three, Okay, So there was
Speaker 2: a lot of running around and a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: a lot to acclimate too, and honestly, you know, when
Speaker 2: you're sitting in silence, you know, a lot of things
Speaker 2: come to light.
Speaker 1: So that's when you started to realize that maybe this
Speaker 1: was not what you signed up for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a lot of things came to light and
Speaker 2: things started changing and looking very different over the next
Speaker 2: few years.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you, you know, you know someone
Speaker 1: who's been in a relationship where you know it's not
Speaker 1: awez roses and you have gone to therapy, what was
Speaker 1: your you know, your aha moment that said, you know,
Speaker 1: that made you decide this is enough. Was there a
Speaker 1: single catalyst or a bunch of small things that set
Speaker 1: off maybe some silent alarms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there were a few things I could say.
Speaker 2: I I found some text messages that were a little alarming,
Speaker 2: and I ended up investigating that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there were things that came up that, you know,
Speaker 2: cross lines.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, it's so crazy because many of
Speaker 1: our listeners hear the words dometic abuse and they picture bruises.
Speaker 1: You've said, you know, sometimes the deepest scars are invisible,
Speaker 1: and I know, having gone through grief that you know
Speaker 1: a lot of times people wear their scars on the outside.
Speaker 1: But some of the most emotional and traumatic scars are
Speaker 1: worn on the inside where people can't see it. And
Speaker 1: can you just describe what coercive control is and inn
Speaker 1: everyday term so our listeners can kind of understand because
Speaker 1: I know you've done so much research out there, you know,
Speaker 1: and you don't speak specifically about yourself, but about the
Speaker 1: women that you've come in contact with and talked to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the information that has come into my world.
Speaker 2: I am a knowledgeist, power person, so I've done a
Speaker 2: lot of research over the last several years. I didn't
Speaker 2: understand really what my life looked like, what was happening
Speaker 2: around it, and even from parts of my childhood. You know,
Speaker 2: people don't understand coercive control and what that is is.
Speaker 2: It's terminology like manipulation and controlling behaviors. And this could
Speaker 2: be from your boss, this could be from a parent,
Speaker 2: this could be from a spouse, and and it looks
Speaker 2: different on so many counts, which is what I talked about,
Speaker 2: the spectrum of behavior and in relationships and so so
Speaker 2: manipulation and control certain things like that people don't understand.
Speaker 2: You say, oh, they're just ignoring me, or we're not
Speaker 2: communicating well or they're just telling me what I can
Speaker 2: and can't do with our money financial and so there's
Speaker 2: financial abuse some relationships where people say there are only
Speaker 2: allot a certain amount of money every week, and they
Speaker 2: start to believe that certain situations are normal. Yes, And
Speaker 2: as you're living through them month after month, year after year,
Speaker 2: it's confusing because, and I've talked to a lot of
Speaker 2: different women, you start to believe this is the norm.
Speaker 2: And people have likened it to putting a frog in
Speaker 2: water on a slow boil on the stove, and after
Speaker 2: a while, the frog gets used to this and they
Speaker 2: slowly just die and it's not like, you know, people
Speaker 2: used to put a lobster in a boiling pot of
Speaker 2: water and they would die instantly, and that seems very
Speaker 2: traumatic and sudden. And when you're doing it like that
Speaker 2: and it's a slow boil.
Speaker 1: You don't even realize it's happening, realize it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's crazy because when I was a financial advisor before
Speaker 1: I became a mental health advocate, and I cannot tell
Speaker 1: you the amount of women that would come into my
Speaker 1: office who knew nothing about finances when their husbands would die,
Speaker 1: especially at the older generation, they didn't even know how
Speaker 1: to write a check, not that we write checks anymore.
Speaker 1: I mean everything was auto made it, but just the
Speaker 1: simple you know, financial things. They just left everything to
Speaker 1: the man and they had no clue as to whether
Speaker 1: they had anything or you know, And it was shocking
Speaker 1: to me how many women. And I made it my
Speaker 1: business to teach people this is the ABCS of investing.
Speaker 1: This is what you have to know. You have to understand,
Speaker 1: you know how to It's like the business. You are
Speaker 1: the CEO of you. You have to take care of you.
Speaker 1: So that I and we.
Speaker 2: Grew up in a really unusual time, those of us
Speaker 2: who grew up in the seventies and eighties, especially because
Speaker 2: we had the fifties and sixties where this was the norm,
Speaker 2: where the men took care of everything, the women stayed
Speaker 2: at home and made dinner, and they didn't really have
Speaker 2: any knowledge. I mean, think about and I don't know
Speaker 2: the exact dates, but I think it was nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: five or when women were first allowed to use a
Speaker 2: credit card. And this is after during the sexual Revolution,
Speaker 2: when people were you know, peace.
Speaker 1: Love and.
Speaker 2: Traveling around and women were free spirited. But it wasn't
Speaker 2: necessarily like that. And it certainly wasn't always like that,
Speaker 2: And so for those of us growing up in the eighties,
Speaker 2: this was the norm that boys and girls. We went
Speaker 2: out and we could do whatever we wanted. We went
Speaker 2: to college, and we didn't really think about this. But
Speaker 2: I believe that in the background of all of this,
Speaker 2: the men and the patriarchal mindset. It's a mindset. It's
Speaker 2: not just men, it could be women too, but it
Speaker 2: is a mindset that mostly the men had the power
Speaker 2: over finances, over relationship, over government, over a lot of
Speaker 2: different things.
Speaker 1: You know, that's so true because growing up I was
Speaker 1: in the financial business and it was mostly a male
Speaker 1: dominated business where you know, the financial advisors were mostly men.
Speaker 1: And I remember I went in Earl Lynch and I said,
Speaker 1: I want to be a financial advisor when I got
Speaker 1: out of college, and you know, the manager looks at Alaska,
Speaker 1: you should be an assistant, a secretary. You know you'll
Speaker 1: be good at that, And so of course I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, not realizing, and after a couple of years
Speaker 1: of that, I realized, no, I am smart. I know
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. I went out and I got my
Speaker 1: licensing and I went on my own and I became
Speaker 1: an independent financial advisor, and because you could, we were
Speaker 1: breaking down walls in the ninety It took us a while,
Speaker 1: but you know, let's talk about that, because you know,
Speaker 1: you've spoken about the family court and the labyrinth that
Speaker 1: it is to get through. So here you are, you're
Speaker 1: recognizing there's things are not right. You want to get
Speaker 1: out of this marriage. But how did the courtroom? How
Speaker 1: did the family court in Connecticut? How did that work
Speaker 1: with you? How did that feel compared to the battlefield
Speaker 1: you were fighting just in your own home as well, right,
Speaker 1: you know, when you had kids too, so you're dealing
Speaker 1: with all of that on top of.
Speaker 2: This, right, I mean, it's already traumatic and difficult enough
Speaker 2: to say that you want to end your marriage and
Speaker 2: your relationship, knowing what it's going to be like for
Speaker 2: the children. I mean, you know, I was in therapy.
Speaker 2: I was trying to get guidance through it and to
Speaker 2: do the best thing. And I did grow up with
Speaker 2: my mom and dad divorce, and I had a stepfather,
Speaker 2: and not that it was always easy, but our in laws,
Speaker 2: my grandparents on all sides, we would all go to
Speaker 2: each other's holidays, and again it wasn't always easy, but
Speaker 2: this is the way it was. In my grandmother's home.
Speaker 2: She would have my cousin's mother even though they were
Speaker 2: doing so that was the norm to me. You know,
Speaker 2: I know this was going to be difficult, but we'll
Speaker 2: work together and we'll make it okay for the kids.
Speaker 2: And so as this, I understand the first several months
Speaker 2: or a year or two can be difficult and challenging. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but what I was not prepared for what was to come.
Speaker 2: So we got attorneys, backtruck. We had a mediator because
Speaker 2: I wanted to do this a nice way and you know,
Speaker 2: in a way that would be as amicable as possible.
Speaker 2: And it was anything but yeah, shocking, And we each
Speaker 2: hired attorneys and we went to court, and I remember
Speaker 2: going several times over the course of the first year
Speaker 2: and two saying, well, we've got the truth and we've
Speaker 2: got the facts, and there is nothing else. And that
Speaker 2: used to be my mantra, there's nothing else. This is
Speaker 2: a court of law, and here we go, and I'm
Speaker 2: in my twelfth year dealing with truth and facts and
Speaker 2: it is dystopy. And what I've come to realize is
Speaker 2: happening in the family courts and what I've been through
Speaker 2: and as I've opened up my world and gained knowledge
Speaker 2: into this. What is happening in Connecticut, what is happening
Speaker 2: in every state, and what is happening around the world
Speaker 2: is shocking and I wouldn't have believed it, I suppose
Speaker 2: unless I was dealing with it myself.
Speaker 1: Okay, can you give us, like some some highlights on
Speaker 1: on that. What are you saying? What shocking? What is
Speaker 1: what is it like when you're when you're in this situation.
Speaker 2: You know, standing in a courtroom and presenting documents and
Speaker 2: presenting information to someone who is a layman like myself,
Speaker 2: or at least I was. I'm an honorary attorney at
Speaker 2: this point, but someone who is dealing with this. You
Speaker 2: see what's laid out in front of you, but what
Speaker 2: the judges are handing back as orders and how they
Speaker 2: are processing the information about you and about your children,
Speaker 2: and the situation comes back as twisted narrative and twisted orders.
Speaker 2: So you're saying, here's what's happened, here are the numbers
Speaker 2: and the information, and we need to process this so
Speaker 2: we can get divorced and move along. And let's say
Speaker 2: the other side is presenting different information to me. You're thinking,
Speaker 2: this is a judge and they're there to assess the
Speaker 2: information with law and order behind them and to give
Speaker 2: an order and a path ahead that makes sense, that
Speaker 2: is structured in law, constitutional law, and due process, which
Speaker 2: means it's due process. You are allowed a specific process
Speaker 2: that is outlined.
Speaker 1: Well, there are laws. There's laws that you are entitled
Speaker 1: to child support. You're in child you know, I you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know the numbers or anything like that, but
Speaker 1: I know generally from friends or families that have got it.
Speaker 1: There there's alimony that would be paid, there's child support
Speaker 1: at least while the kids are young, or maybe there's
Speaker 1: a college fund that gets set up for the children
Speaker 1: so that they're taken care of for college. So you're
Speaker 1: telling me that it's not that cutton dry. It's not.
Speaker 2: I suppose in certain situations it is cut and dry.
Speaker 2: But when you're dealing with course of control, and again
Speaker 2: that can come from certain parties involved. It can come
Speaker 2: from attorneys, and then they bring in other parties, therapists,
Speaker 2: psychological evaluators, guardian at items that are supposed to be
Speaker 2: helping the children, and sometimes there is CPS which are
Speaker 2: government agencies. So in many cases, not just mine, but
Speaker 2: in many cases, you are now dealing with with four
Speaker 2: or five, six, seven agencies and people.
Speaker 1: And you're paying for this attorney while you're doing all
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: Well, you're paying for almost all of them.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? No?
Speaker 2: And so you know they're telling you or you're ordered
Speaker 2: to do these things, and you I didn't understand. I
Speaker 2: just you're doing what you're being told to do, and
Speaker 2: you're thinking, Okay, we're going to be resolving this soon.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, and again I'm not
Speaker 2: alone in this arena. You are finding your months and
Speaker 2: years into this, and you're talking tens of thousands, hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars that most people don't have, that
Speaker 2: we didn't I didn't have, and and so.
Speaker 1: You're telling me that, like, Okay, if I go out
Speaker 1: and I shoot the neighbor, not that I ever would
Speaker 1: do that, but what I you know, and I had
Speaker 1: no money, I would go to court and I would
Speaker 1: be appointed an attorney, that's right. But if I were,
Speaker 1: and I never would do this either. I'm married thirty
Speaker 1: one years happily, thank god. But if I were to
Speaker 1: get divorced from my husband, and I found myself in
Speaker 1: a situation where I needed an attorney. I just I
Speaker 1: have to pay for that, even if I'm don't have
Speaker 1: the money or the wherewithal to handle it. Maybe I'm
Speaker 1: busy working three jobs supporting my baby. I'm just at
Speaker 1: the mercy of the person I want to get away from.
Speaker 2: You're at the mercy of this what we call a
Speaker 2: corrupt court system, where there it is there are people
Speaker 2: who are yielding power, and there is money going around.
Speaker 2: And again, I'm twelve years into this, and I have
Speaker 2: a lot of knowledge. I have a lot of I've
Speaker 2: cultivated an enormous amount many relationships of experts in this
Speaker 2: field in Connecticut, in the US and globally, so that
Speaker 2: now I understand how a lot of this is happening.
Speaker 2: But yet I'm sitting here and I still can't make
Speaker 2: it stop in my very own case. And so it
Speaker 2: is really hard to describe how it's all happening, although
Speaker 2: every day there's more information coming out as to how
Speaker 2: it's taking place. And it really is the family court,
Speaker 2: because criminal court, civil court, they are bound by different
Speaker 2: structures and laws, because they're a jury of our peers,
Speaker 2: which is what we should have in this court. You
Speaker 2: have one person, one judge, who gets to make decisions.
Speaker 2: They are not trained, most of them are not trained
Speaker 2: in domestic abuse. They're not trained in psychology.
Speaker 1: What about the children? So let's let's let's back up
Speaker 1: a little bit. So here you are, you're battling the
Speaker 1: court system. You're trying to keep your children on a
Speaker 1: healthy path at school. You're for taking them away. Are
Speaker 1: you still living with your husband because finances are or
Speaker 1: have you pulled out and are now trying to you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it goes both ways, you know,
Speaker 1: depending on.
Speaker 2: What you can forward to do well, it doesn't. It
Speaker 2: depends on who your judges, who your attorneys are, and
Speaker 2: what your basic knowledge is. And in our case, we
Speaker 2: were ordered to do this thing called bird nesting, and
Speaker 2: it's in the name of the best interest of the children.
Speaker 2: So they stay in the family home and each of
Speaker 2: you is ordered to go find another place to live
Speaker 2: during while the other person has their parenting time. So
Speaker 2: I was for a year almost I was staying in hotels,
Speaker 2: I was staying on family and friends couches.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And you could imagine this as a mother of three children,
Speaker 2: then watching me pack up my bag on every other
Speaker 2: weekend and every other Wednesday, and having to figure out
Speaker 2: where I was staying and making sure the kids felt
Speaker 2: okay about this?
Speaker 1: How can they? I mean, who makes these rules? That's
Speaker 1: that's insane.
Speaker 2: That's part of this is that there are no rules
Speaker 2: and it is very random. And you know, someone like me,
Speaker 2: I mean, I consider myself a very strong person, right
Speaker 2: and I'm resilient and I've been through a lot in
Speaker 2: my life. And there are others who who who cannot
Speaker 2: deal with this. I mean, I have moms calling me
Speaker 2: literally every day, sobbing, and they're so forlorn and you're
Speaker 2: trying to keep them from doing something drastic because they
Speaker 2: feel helpless.
Speaker 1: And and that brings me that you know, you're going
Speaker 1: through all of this, and you know, just regular life,
Speaker 1: you go through ups and downs and highs and lows,
Speaker 1: and your kids go through things. And so when you're
Speaker 1: at your lowest, what or who keeps that pilot light
Speaker 1: of hope burning for you?
Speaker 2: You know, there are a lot of different ways of
Speaker 2: dealing with it. Everybody deals with it differently. For me,
Speaker 2: I had a therapist and I just thought I don't
Speaker 2: have a choice. I need to make this right. I
Speaker 2: need to do this for me and my kids. And
Speaker 2: I had little guardian angels and I started doing I
Speaker 2: started meditating, and you know, you have a couple of
Speaker 2: people that are your you know, I had a couple
Speaker 2: of good friends and family that were by my side.
Speaker 1: Thank god, thank god you had a support system. I
Speaker 1: think now or then, or all of it more than ever,
Speaker 1: you need that support system. You need to have, you know,
Speaker 1: places to go to to talk about these things. Now,
Speaker 1: I did do an interview with a woman, doctor Mohatta,
Speaker 1: who talked a little bit about how hard it was
Speaker 1: when you know, thirty years ago, when she went through
Speaker 1: a similar situation, and how she volunteers and tries to
Speaker 1: help people as a psychologist. But I know that you've
Speaker 1: founded a nonprofit organization called Rock the Walls and this
Speaker 1: wasn't just like a personal victory or something. It's a
Speaker 1: lifeline that you're creating. Can you talk about it, how
Speaker 1: the idea sparked and what, Yes, you know, yeah, talk
Speaker 1: about all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. Again, I've been dealing with this for
Speaker 2: twelve years and it's taken different turns, and again, really
Speaker 2: dystoping to me because I think, how is it that
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with this for so long? And people have
Speaker 2: said to me, how are you still in court? Why
Speaker 2: are you still dealing with the divorce? And I said,
Speaker 2: I've been divorced since twenty sixteen, but this is financial
Speaker 2: and litigation. And so right before COVID, I was driving around,
Speaker 2: or it was actually during COVID, I was driving around
Speaker 2: with my father, who came to visit. Been just the
Speaker 2: most incredible support in every way for us, financially and
Speaker 2: spiritually and emotionally. I would never have been able to
Speaker 2: get through this without him. And we were driving around
Speaker 2: together one day and we were talking about how we
Speaker 2: can help people and how we can get out of this.
Speaker 2: And we started talking about what we can do to
Speaker 2: help and what I can do to help, and I used,
Speaker 2: I'd say, what would have helped me all of these years? Yes,
Speaker 2: And what would have helped me is finding other support
Speaker 2: and knowing there were other people out there, which I
Speaker 2: had now started to find because I thought I was alone.
Speaker 2: And I said, what if there was a place to
Speaker 2: go to get all the information that I needed that
Speaker 2: I'm just starting to find googling for hours and hours
Speaker 2: and how could I save this time so that someone
Speaker 2: could get help right away? Like, and we started talking
Speaker 2: and we said, you know, a resource hub and also
Speaker 2: a space where people could come. And we were driving
Speaker 2: down near the water in Connecticut and we saw a big,
Speaker 2: beautiful house and property and we said, we would love
Speaker 2: to have a place like this where any mom with
Speaker 2: her children could come for respite, for help, for guidance.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and stun go and spend their weekends
Speaker 1: and wednesdays exactly.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, and a place for kids for support and
Speaker 2: which is critical, it's and a lot of this really
Speaker 2: does come back to the kids. And you know, as
Speaker 2: moms especially, we put so much outside of ourselves for
Speaker 2: our children, right and we exhaust you know, we all
Speaker 2: know it's a twenty four hour day job. You know,
Speaker 2: we don't get weekends off. You don't get nights off
Speaker 2: when they're sick or when they need help. And you know,
Speaker 2: people say, you're only as happy as your most unhappy child,
Speaker 2: and so this is what we do. And then we're
Speaker 2: dealing with all of this on the outside.
Speaker 1: So your nonprofit is building, So your building is you're
Speaker 1: it's a it's you're building a one stop digital portal
Speaker 1: so survivors don't have to google in the dark anymore.
Speaker 1: And I think that is so unbelievably brilliant and it's
Speaker 1: so native in today's world. And I know that, you know,
Speaker 1: you're in the process of building it, and during this time,
Speaker 1: you've you know, assembled court watchers volunteers. Can you talk
Speaker 1: about those people who sit in hearings for proceedings and
Speaker 1: a little background on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that will be the first program that
Speaker 2: we start when we start getting funding and people start donating. Really, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was part of a big change in my case
Speaker 2: last year after eleven years, I started how having people
Speaker 2: come in, Advocates and people who are interested in the
Speaker 2: law and what was actually happening in family court come
Speaker 2: in and what we call court watch or observe cases
Speaker 2: in family court because it's different in every state. But
Speaker 2: you are sitting in this courtroom by yourself, and yes
Speaker 2: there are transcripts, but there are no videos, and there's
Speaker 2: nobody there taking take there. There's nobody accounting for what's
Speaker 2: being said, what's being done, and how it's being done.
Speaker 2: So when you have somebody coming and sitting there just
Speaker 2: being an observer witness taking notes and they see things
Speaker 2: that are not right and not correct. Well, then everybody,
Speaker 2: everybody is on the stand, including the judges, including the attorneys,
Speaker 2: and we in this world, across the country, have been
Speaker 2: seen movement in this. So whether you have one person
Speaker 2: or you have ten, it's critical because you can't dispute
Speaker 2: what a witness and you can, but you can't dispute
Speaker 2: what an impartial witness states. Yes, and the notes they're
Speaker 2: taking well.
Speaker 1: And that brings me. I remember when I was in college,
Speaker 1: I took a law class and one of the part
Speaker 1: of the curriculum was you had to go to the
Speaker 1: local court and you had to sit in on a
Speaker 1: court case. Yes, now, wouldn't that be brilliant if we
Speaker 1: get all these college kids going in and seeing what
Speaker 1: goes on.
Speaker 2: I actually had a friend who called me who knew
Speaker 2: what I was doing, who said her daughter was sitting
Speaker 2: in last year taking she was a law student and
Speaker 2: they centered a family court hearing in Maryland and she
Speaker 2: observed this, and I said, this needs to be what
Speaker 2: every court And so that is a program and people
Speaker 2: are doing it. And so somebody came and did that
Speaker 2: in my case, and what she observed was was unbelievable,
Speaker 2: and she on her own went to Connecticut judiciary and
Speaker 2: she filed her own report unbeknownst to me. Wow, because
Speaker 2: she was just doing this on her own. And honestly,
Speaker 2: what I saw in my very own cases past year,
Speaker 2: it just solidified what I knew needed to be done
Speaker 2: and and to this point, what she did legally should
Speaker 2: have been adhere to and should have made movement. And
Speaker 2: sixteen months later after she sat in that courtroom, it
Speaker 2: still hasn't made a shift in my case.
Speaker 1: That's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can have a whole, but that is the truth.
Speaker 2: And so what Rock the Walls is going to do
Speaker 2: is bringing what I really am wanting to do, not
Speaker 2: reinvent any wheel, to bring everything under one umbrella, the
Speaker 2: brilliant voices, all of the brilliant men and women, mostly women,
Speaker 2: but there are men and women, the children's voices, people
Speaker 2: into one space. So you don't have to google, and
Speaker 2: you don't have to go searching. So if you need
Speaker 2: a support group in the middle of Minnesota, I want
Speaker 2: you to be able to go to Rock the Walls
Speaker 2: and find that that's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Now you've been lobbying really hard for Jennifer's Law. Now,
Speaker 1: for those of you that live in a cave like
Speaker 1: I sometimes do, Jennifer Dulo's was a Connecticut mom who
Speaker 1: was going through a really tough divorce and her ex
Speaker 1: husband was responsible for her death. I think he was.
Speaker 1: I think he was, yeah, and then I think he
Speaker 1: died before maybe he was not. He killed himself before
Speaker 1: he was convicted or after yeah, before, but his girlfriend
Speaker 1: I think got convicted. But anyway, so it's called Jennifer's.
Speaker 2: Law, and it is also based on another Jennifer, Jennifer Ignano,
Speaker 2: who was murdered in front of her children, oh, several
Speaker 2: years ago. So it is called Jennifer's Law with an
Speaker 2: s aposters because it's it's it's for both of them.
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. Yes, And so they're expanding Connecticut's definition
Speaker 1: of abuse, which is really crucial. Can you tell me
Speaker 1: a little bit about the bill that you're championing and
Speaker 1: maybe about that. I think there's a new book that
Speaker 1: just came out.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well, so, so Jennifer's Law was actually put
Speaker 2: into place two or three years ago, and you know,
Speaker 2: here's here's the issue. Jennifer's law talks about course of control,
Speaker 2: and when it first came out, people said, attorneys that
Speaker 2: I know, said, it has no teeth. And the truth
Speaker 2: of the matter is there are laws already in place.
Speaker 2: For example, perjury is a Class D felony, so you
Speaker 2: would think one would think, well, if someone perjures themselves,
Speaker 2: well they are, they.
Speaker 1: Should have consequences.
Speaker 2: Consequences of being you know, there's it's a you are,
Speaker 2: it's a felonise. You're breaking the law. And if I
Speaker 2: could tell you that most of the most egregious situations
Speaker 2: that we all deal with is perjury, I and I
Speaker 2: could say this very confidently, have never perjured myself, which
Speaker 2: is why it's easy for me to go and give
Speaker 2: testimony because I'm telling my truth. But when someone goes
Speaker 2: and they lie on the stand and they perjure themselves
Speaker 2: in family court, I can tell you that most of
Speaker 2: the time on the other side of things, it is ignored.
Speaker 2: It is ignored. Just like these laws perjury, the Constitution
Speaker 2: are due process rights. There are amendments, there are statutes,
Speaker 2: and there are case law. And many of us go
Speaker 2: in fighting year after year screaming about these laws, and
Speaker 2: they are ignored because we don't have a jury of
Speaker 2: our peers because nobody really has to listen. And at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, family court is an administrative court.
Speaker 2: And so I circle back to these laws. We have
Speaker 2: Jennifer's Law and it's about course of control, and many
Speaker 2: of us have tried to utilize Jennifer's Law in our
Speaker 2: cases and they're dismissed. It's very simply dismissed. And there's
Speaker 2: a law called Caden's Law which all the states are
Speaker 2: trying to enact, which we're trying to bring Connecticut, and
Speaker 2: it is it's a law after a little girl in
Speaker 2: who was murdered by her abusive parent in Pennsylvania, and
Speaker 2: the judges allowed this child to go and have visitation
Speaker 2: with her father. He was a documented abuser. He had
Speaker 2: been arrested many times. And part of the issue is
Speaker 2: that this happened way too often and it's not covered
Speaker 2: by the media, so most people don't understand. It's just
Speaker 2: a larger part of all the work that many of
Speaker 2: us are doing to shine a light on this.
Speaker 1: I know you said there was a new book that
Speaker 1: came out shining a Light on Jennifer.
Speaker 2: Dulos Yes by rich Cohen Rich Cohen and it's called
Speaker 2: uh Murder and Murder in the Dollhouse. And he just
Speaker 2: wrote this book a few just came out a few
Speaker 2: weeks ago, and it is a story about Jennifer Dulos
Speaker 2: who was murdered a couple of towns over in New
Speaker 2: Canaan in Connecticut, and it got a lot of national
Speaker 2: spotlight because she and her husband were Ivy League. You know,
Speaker 2: it was a bigger case because when you shine a
Speaker 2: light on these bigger names and cases and people who
Speaker 2: have a lot of money, the media seems to cover that.
Speaker 2: And of course this happens every single day, but this
Speaker 2: book seems to be something he is exposing what is
Speaker 2: happening good in Connecticut and very specifically in Stamford Family Court. Wow,
Speaker 2: which is very interesting and a lot of us will
Speaker 2: be talking about this in the next in the coming months.
Speaker 1: Now. I know you're from Connecticut as I am, but
Speaker 1: I how are the laws different like maybe in other
Speaker 1: states like Arizona.
Speaker 2: Well, you know again, and people tend to really not
Speaker 2: understand this, and I didn't. It's not about the laws,
Speaker 2: it's how they're being enforced and enacted. So what's been
Speaker 2: happening in Arizona. You actually have some good people behind
Speaker 2: the laws, judiciary, legislation, and they understand and people have
Speaker 2: been so forceful about what is going on in family court.
Speaker 2: They've been having hearings in the last couple of months,
Speaker 2: and people have been giving testimony, men and women, protective
Speaker 2: parents and children have been coming in and giving testimony,
Speaker 2: and it's all public. It's all on social media. And
Speaker 2: I have been watching this and completely blown away by
Speaker 2: this testimony and what they're saying very loudly about the
Speaker 2: family courts in the United States. Can't you can't block
Speaker 2: this out, you can't turn it off. And it's happening
Speaker 2: justice past week in Idaho, and it's happening in other states.
Speaker 2: So I have been trying to contact many different people
Speaker 2: and administrators in Connecticut in the past few weeks and
Speaker 2: letting them know, wow, you know, we have an opportunity
Speaker 2: here in Connecticut to be on the right side of this,
Speaker 2: to be one of these states, because if they heard
Speaker 2: the testimony of a lot of the protective parents, mostly mothers,
Speaker 2: but protective parents here in our state, and the children
Speaker 2: who have aged out who want to come and give
Speaker 2: their hear their have their voices heard and give testimony. Uh,
Speaker 2: they have an opportunity to do this.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, It's amazingly so you are breaking down.
Speaker 2: The walls, you know, you know, alongside all of these
Speaker 2: other incredible voices. Really wow.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna make like a situation here if you
Speaker 1: had a magic wand let's just say, for your Rock
Speaker 1: the Walls Foundation, and if you could, you know, if
Speaker 1: paint a picture for us, if a survivor clicks on
Speaker 1: it at two am, what are you hoping when when
Speaker 1: this is all what she will feel in that instant.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that anyone who is you know, uncertain about
Speaker 2: their relationship. I'm shifted this a little in the last
Speaker 2: year that I initially launched Rock the Walls because the
Speaker 2: initially was about you know, victims of abuse, but honestly,
Speaker 2: not everybody understands that they are dealing with a situation
Speaker 2: that is abusive, right because people, you know, that's a
Speaker 2: nuanced term. And what I want people is to be
Speaker 2: able to come to this space when they're feeling uncomfortable
Speaker 2: about their relationship uncertain and so many people are today
Speaker 2: with dating and dating apps. So I want someone to
Speaker 2: be able to come here from the beginning to navigate
Speaker 2: healthy relationships. So when they come to rock the walls,
Speaker 2: they can start out by saying, what is a healthy relationship?
Speaker 2: What does it look like when your partner does ABC
Speaker 2: or D. Can I meet up with other people in
Speaker 2: my area that I can talk to? Can I find
Speaker 2: a safe space? Can I read a book that makes sense?
Speaker 2: Who do I follow online? How do I join a group?
Speaker 2: What if somebody wants to help and also be supportive?
Speaker 2: What if you're a parent, or sibling or a friend
Speaker 2: and they want to know how to help somebody going
Speaker 2: through this. I want everyone to go to this space
Speaker 2: and my magic wand is I'd like to be done
Speaker 2: with my case so I can focus on this and
Speaker 2: what when you ask me how this started? My background
Speaker 2: is in music and entertainment, and to me, music has
Speaker 2: been a part of my life since the day I
Speaker 2: was born. Like many of us, since you know, our
Speaker 2: mothers would sing lullabies to us, and from that to
Speaker 2: the music from our childhood, from our formative years, from
Speaker 2: when we're out, you know, living from our sad moments
Speaker 2: to our most powerful moments. Music is there for most
Speaker 2: of us, and for me it's played a huge role
Speaker 2: and so it is the universal language. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: speaking today, but not everybody cares what I have to say,
Speaker 2: but they will listen to people who are out there,
Speaker 2: who've written about abuse, who sung about it, from to
Speaker 2: Christina Aguilera, and there are a lot of voices out
Speaker 2: there that people listen to. So what I want to
Speaker 2: do is get those people and these voices on stage, yes,
Speaker 2: and bring them into one space so that they can
Speaker 2: tell the story that thousands and thousands of us need
Speaker 2: them to tell, yes, and so that we can rock
Speaker 2: the walls and rock the stage and get this information
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 1: Yes, because those court systems need to be rattled, they
Speaker 1: really do.
Speaker 2: And people need to understand because it is your neighbor.
Speaker 2: You know, you're walking down the street. It is happening
Speaker 2: in every neighborhood. It is happening in every town. It
Speaker 2: is happen in every state, It is happening in every country. Wow,
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: That's crazy crazy. Do you have you heard from someone
Speaker 1: whose life changed because of your advocacy? You know.
Speaker 2: I can say, because I've done the research. Right now,
Speaker 2: I could say my life is changing because of the brilliant,
Speaker 2: brilliant other women, mostly women there are some men who
Speaker 2: are in this space who are changing lives everywhere, and
Speaker 2: I feel really blessed to be part of this circle
Speaker 2: now and just in Connecticut. What I'm trying to do
Speaker 2: right now is bring a lot of these moms who
Speaker 2: are suffering and struggling so much more than I am
Speaker 2: right now, into one space, and we're actively doing that
Speaker 2: so that they are not alone.
Speaker 1: If Connecticut became the gold standard, what would be like
Speaker 1: the blueprint for taking this movement national? What do you think?
Speaker 2: You know? Really, the family court needs to be dismantled
Speaker 2: and restructured so that when you get to a certain
Speaker 2: place in a divorce process, it is set. It is
Speaker 2: taken to just a completely other space where there's a
Speaker 2: jury of your peers, where there's a different system, and
Speaker 2: that all the states are aligned. You've got the training
Speaker 2: that is critical, the knowledge of what course of control
Speaker 2: and what abuse and what manipulation looked like, and everybody
Speaker 2: follows the same gold standard.
Speaker 1: As you said, Oh my god, wouldn't that be amazing?
Speaker 1: Now I've heard that there might be a film about
Speaker 1: the situation going on. Talk to me about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, again, with all of these people in
Speaker 2: our circles.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I connected with an old friend from high school who
Speaker 2: a few years ago, who I discovered was dealing with
Speaker 2: the same situation that I was.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And she's just a brilliant, incredible woman who's an inspiration
Speaker 2: to me because she's been going through this. And we
Speaker 2: started talking two or three years ago, and she introduced
Speaker 2: me to a friend of hers who is award winning
Speaker 2: producer in la and we all started to connect. And
Speaker 2: as she heard our stories and what was happening a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, she said, We've got to do
Speaker 2: a film. She's a documentary filmmaker.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And what has come together in the last year is
Speaker 2: we are in pre production for a film called House
Speaker 2: of Mirrors.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And the idea is that when you walk into a
Speaker 2: court and you think you're walking into a place where
Speaker 2: there's you know, law and there's justice, and what you're
Speaker 2: walking into is a house of mirrors where you're bumping
Speaker 2: into walls and nothing looks or seems as it is.
Speaker 2: And we have brought some of the top voices in
Speaker 2: this world of domestic abuse and coursive control into this
Speaker 2: space as our partners. So we are in pre production,
Speaker 2: we are we are presently taking funding and donations, and
Speaker 2: the minute we get you know, twenty five to fifty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, our team is going to be here filming
Speaker 2: in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, it's really exciting.
Speaker 2: And I have to give a special note to our well.
Speaker 2: Our producer is Marisa Pulvino, who's incredible and done brilliant films.
Speaker 2: And our director is Kai Dickens, who anybody who has
Speaker 2: children with autism and special needs knows her name because
Speaker 2: she has done an incredible podcast which has bumped Joe
Speaker 2: Rogan out of the top spot in recent months. That's
Speaker 2: how incredible she is as a director and film maker.
Speaker 2: And she's doing a film with that now. So she
Speaker 2: is our director, and this is happening, and it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's bringing all of these voices into one space again.
Speaker 2: That is, you know, that's facilitating all of this.
Speaker 1: I think that's amazing. Now. I know you have the foundation,
Speaker 1: but I know you're working towards an app, so it
Speaker 1: talk to me about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, again, because of my work and growing up
Speaker 2: in Connecticut, when I launched last year, I reached a
Speaker 2: lot of people and again, somebody I knew from high
Speaker 2: school reached out and called me and said that saw
Speaker 2: what I was doing and that he had had a
Speaker 2: prototype for an app in this arena and it's called
Speaker 2: safety Net and it's built out and we got on
Speaker 2: a zoom and he showed me, he gave me. We
Speaker 2: did a walk through of the app, and I was
Speaker 2: in tears because he had built this because of a
Speaker 2: situation and a murder that had taken place in Connecticut.
Speaker 2: And essentially it will change the face of what victims
Speaker 2: of abuse, what it will look like with an app
Speaker 2: because they will be able to upload information and photos
Speaker 2: and text messages and information so that it's a pattern
Speaker 2: of abuse that will have safe place with other people
Speaker 2: and other spaces, let's just say. And the most important
Speaker 2: part about this app is that it will have real
Speaker 2: time data that goes out to police stations or FBI
Speaker 2: or other entities, which we don't have now. And the
Speaker 2: most incredible moment we had with this is and again
Speaker 2: we need funding to get this off the ground. But
Speaker 2: I was watching the trailer for Gabby Patito story on
Speaker 2: Netflix about three months ago, and I was watching the
Speaker 2: trailer before I came out, and her mother was on
Speaker 2: saying we couldn't find I didn't know where my daughter was.
Speaker 2: I couldn't find her. And you know, if only I'd
Speaker 2: know where she was.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 2: Sat there after watching this and I called Matt and
Speaker 2: I sho who developed it, developed this, and I was
Speaker 2: in tears. I said, Oh my god, could you imagine
Speaker 2: if Gabby Patito had this app, her mother would have
Speaker 2: been able to find her. There would have been records
Speaker 2: about what it transpired. And this was part of my
Speaker 2: shift about the term domestic abuse, because I said, this
Speaker 2: app needs to go out to every young person who's dating,
Speaker 2: and every dating app, because if you have a gut feeling,
Speaker 2: if you're going out with someone, we've heard of someone
Speaker 2: going on a date and they get rape or something happens.
Speaker 2: If you are linked to this app safety net, all
Speaker 2: of your information is in there and you can see
Speaker 2: a pattern. Or you know, he pulled my arm and
Speaker 2: it didn't feel comfortable. He wrote me this terrible message.
Speaker 2: It's all in there. Oh.
Speaker 1: If he's just going on a data and you just
Speaker 1: it's blind DAT and you say, you know what, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm going on this blind date. I don't know what
Speaker 1: to expect because you could get roofinge, you don't know
Speaker 1: what would you do? Show?
Speaker 2: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: So all the time, you know, I mean I know,
Speaker 1: I know it's actors, but still I'm like riveted by
Speaker 1: it every day.
Speaker 2: So all of this is really it is bringing all
Speaker 2: of this into one space. That brings all of these people, right,
Speaker 2: mostly women and children, into one space. And that is
Speaker 2: the most important thing because I've said we're fragmented, and
Speaker 2: when you're dealing with this on your own and you
Speaker 2: don't know what's happening, you are alone and no one,
Speaker 2: no one should feel alone.
Speaker 1: Now, oh my god, I'm gonna change the town a
Speaker 1: little bit and we're gonna have a little fun. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's uh brighten up this and let's ask what
Speaker 1: is your favorite a sunrise or a sunset?
Speaker 2: Sunset? Because I'm a night out so that's when your
Speaker 2: day starts sunrise very often.
Speaker 1: That's funny. What song snaps you back to strength every time?
Speaker 2: Oh? It's my song I blast on my car radio
Speaker 2: with my windows down when I'm headed to courd Titanium.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a great song. Yeah, it gets the fire
Speaker 1: flowing all right. What about a favorite wall arc quote?
Speaker 1: Like hanging in your office. You have a favorite quote?
Speaker 2: Oh boy, you know it's probably roomy. You know, there
Speaker 2: are several different takes on it. But you know, when
Speaker 2: you're in the dark, look for the light. Look for
Speaker 2: the crack, because that's where the light comes in.
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: And I feel that very often. You always look for
Speaker 2: the light. You always have to have hope.
Speaker 1: If you could borrow a superhero power for one day,
Speaker 1: what would it.
Speaker 2: Be, Well, immediately go to Wonder Woman, the truth rope,
Speaker 2: the rope, it would be No. I actually remember that
Speaker 2: Wonder Woman could make everybody freeze in time. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: so you could freeze everybody in time except one person
Speaker 2: that you're talking to, So you could orchestrate the next
Speaker 2: thing that happens in the room.
Speaker 1: That's it, and the last thing that made you laugh
Speaker 1: till your sides hurt.
Speaker 2: What do you think, Oh, you know, I'd have to
Speaker 2: say probably my best friends in the whole world. They're
Speaker 2: my three sisters really since high school. And when we
Speaker 2: get together, which we did a couple couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: there is nothing that stops the laughter. It takes me
Speaker 2: back to that time. It's the safest space in the
Speaker 2: world and there's nothing that stops us from laughing for
Speaker 2: for several minutes, if not longer.
Speaker 1: That's great. So for our listeners who are still trapped, yes,
Speaker 1: hearing your voice through hidden earbuds? What step one toward freedom? Wow?
Speaker 2: You know it's like I've said, you know, knowledge is power.
Speaker 2: So step one is reaching out and connecting with anybody,
Speaker 2: a support group, an advocate. I know it's hard to
Speaker 2: find everyone to Rock the Walls is up and running,
Speaker 2: but we are out there and so if somebody is
Speaker 2: listening to this, you can find us online. All of
Speaker 2: the partners and the people that I'm connected with from
Speaker 2: doctor Christine Coachola and Amy Palaco and doctor Nadine, these
Speaker 2: are brilliant people and their communities on their posts and
Speaker 2: on their websites and pages are incredibly powerful and helpful.
Speaker 2: And that in each state and each that there are
Speaker 2: people coming together and you have to have support and community.
Speaker 1: How can our audience amplify your mission today? Like, is
Speaker 1: there a phone call, a donation, a social share? What
Speaker 1: what moves can they can they help? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Definitely a donation and very specifically we're just finishing setting
Speaker 2: this up right now, but it's on my website for
Speaker 2: our film, for our app for Rock the Walls, because
Speaker 2: we're going to be building out our court watching and
Speaker 2: our other connecting programs in the coming couple of months.
Speaker 2: But the film is ready to take donations, and our
Speaker 2: safety net app is ready and connecting and sharing.
Speaker 1: What is your website?
Speaker 2: Tell Tell Rockthwalls dot org.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, now finish this sentence. Survival is not
Speaker 1: the end of my story.
Speaker 2: It's it's the beginning of a new chapter of my
Speaker 2: life and my children. And I do believe that God
Speaker 2: brought me here for some reason to be able to
Speaker 2: help others. With all those out there who are already
Speaker 2: doing this great work.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, I got you.
Speaker 2: I really because there is no other reason. And so
Speaker 2: for people going through any type of trauma, there has
Speaker 2: to be a You have to just look at it
Speaker 2: that there is a reason for it.
Speaker 1: I know, and I say it all the time. You know,
Speaker 1: some of us have our scars on the outside, some
Speaker 1: of us wear our scars on the inside. We all
Speaker 1: you know, that's why we do this. That's why I
Speaker 1: have this platform, so we can talk and let people
Speaker 1: know they're not alone. I mean, as you know, I
Speaker 1: lost my son to suicide four years ago, and I
Speaker 1: try and close every show with one of his poems,
Speaker 1: and this week I've got one that was one of
Speaker 1: the first poems he wrote when it was like Mother's
Speaker 1: Day and I had been seeing little glimpses of his poems,
Speaker 1: and he put together this little booklet of all his poems.
Speaker 1: He stapled it and he put in the cover of
Speaker 1: it he goes my eight Reasons Why. This poem is
Speaker 1: dedicated to my mom, who is the best mom in
Speaker 1: the world. By Scott Dansker. You are my world. You
Speaker 1: are my life, You are my reason why. You are
Speaker 1: my love, you are my pride, you are the reason why.
Speaker 1: You are my thoughts, you are my lies, you are
Speaker 1: the reason why. You are my queen. You are my lives,
Speaker 1: you are the reason why. You are my reasons why.
Speaker 1: And nothing will change my eight reasons Why. Well, he
Speaker 1: was fifteen when he wrote this stuff, and I still
Speaker 1: cry today when I them. I tell you, it's just crazy.
Speaker 2: But wow, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, Lisa any Cush reminds us that one brave
Speaker 1: voice can echo through the legislative courts, and she is
Speaker 1: so brave and so strong. Please help her support the
Speaker 1: cause that so many women find themselves going through I
Speaker 1: mean men as well. But it's it's so important that
Speaker 1: we shed a light on this, just like we're shedding
Speaker 1: a light on mental health. This, this is really so important.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Serena, Oh my god, thank you for joining
Speaker 1: us today. And you know, until next Sunday, keep spreading
Speaker 1: the light, keep shining the love. And if you enjoy
Speaker 1: today's show, please like us, share us if you want
Speaker 1: to support me and donate, that is always welcome as well,
Speaker 1: and remembers soos stories of survivors is where sparks the soul.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you,