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<v Speaker 1>Hi, and welcome back to SOS Stories of Survivors. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>your host, Serena Dansker, and today we are going to

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<v Speaker 1>meet the survivor who walked out of an unhealthy marriage

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<v Speaker 1>and is squared up in family court and is now

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<v Speaker 1>shaking the pillars of Connecticut's law so that no one

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<v Speaker 1>else has to fight alone. This is Lisa Pennycoush and

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<v Speaker 1>this is SOS Stories of Survivors. Welcome Lisa.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Serena.

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<v Speaker 1>I thank you so much for being here. And your

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<v Speaker 1>story is one that resonates so deeply with me. It's

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<v Speaker 1>such an important topic. So I just want to dive

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<v Speaker 1>right in, and let's start by talking about your background,

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<v Speaker 1>where you grew up, what you did for a living.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, yes, I grew up. I was born in New

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<v Speaker 2>York City and lived in Stamford, Connecticut in my formative years.

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<v Speaker 2>I call it from when I was ten years old

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<v Speaker 2>through high school. And you know, I grew up like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of us did in the eighties, running around

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<v Speaker 2>our neighborhoods with friends. And I went to college in Philadelphia,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I launched into a career in the music

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<v Speaker 2>and entertainment business in your city, that's exciting. It is.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about that.

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<v Speaker 2>When I left, I just went door knocking to get

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<v Speaker 2>jobs and sales and advertising like I was told I

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<v Speaker 2>should do. And I ended up walking into Tavern on

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<v Speaker 2>the Green one day and they needed an event person

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<v Speaker 2>there and so ended up working with the owner, Warner Leroy,

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<v Speaker 2>who was the son of Mervin Leroy, who was the

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<v Speaker 2>director of uh the Wizard of oz Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>So I worked with him for three years and it

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<v Speaker 2>was very exciting, and through him I met other people

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<v Speaker 2>and realized I wanted to do special events and ended

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<v Speaker 2>up at Roseland Ballroom in New York City.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. That must have been an amazing time. Now, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're busy, you're working, you're launching your career. Tell me how,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you meet your your ex? I actually met him

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<v Speaker 2>right when I graduated college, really before I launched my

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<v Speaker 2>you know, got into my career, and we started dating

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<v Speaker 2>and we ended up dating on and off for seven

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<v Speaker 2>years until we got married. So there were there were

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<v Speaker 2>a few stretches in there, even for a year at

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<v Speaker 2>one point.

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<v Speaker 1>So you had like this this this kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>whirlwind romance, you know, And and there were some stretches

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<v Speaker 1>where you went back and fourth where they're red flags

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<v Speaker 1>that you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately for those of us back then, we didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>terms like that. You know, we didn't know about red flags.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't know about things to look out for. Nobody

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<v Speaker 2>talked about this. You'd say, you know, he wasn't being

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<v Speaker 2>very nice, or he didn't call and he said he would.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no such thing as ghosting, or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's so much more information today.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh, I know. I mean I think back to

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<v Speaker 1>relationships that I had, and you know, just you you

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<v Speaker 1>learned by trial and error back then. And uh, and

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes when you're when you're caught up in the moment

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<v Speaker 1>and you're caught in love, you know, you overlook things too.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't see sometimes what's right in front of you.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're in this worlwind relationship. He pops the question.

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<v Speaker 1>You say, yes, so how does that go down?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean we had we'd broken up a few

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<v Speaker 2>different times, and and when we got back together, I

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<v Speaker 2>was a little bit older, twenty eight, twenty nine, and

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<v Speaker 2>we ended up going to Europe and he asked me

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<v Speaker 2>in Paris, Yeah, yeah, it was and you know, with

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<v Speaker 2>the back and forth. It was really interesting. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>people today talk about your gut feeling and your instincts,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, I had a lot of those feelings.

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<v Speaker 2>But I was taken over by this fairy tale and

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<v Speaker 2>the idea, you know, the words that people use today,

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<v Speaker 2>love bombing and coming in and saying, you know, you're

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<v Speaker 2>so amazing and we're in love. And it seemed so magical.

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<v Speaker 2>And the moments that seemed magical were and the moments

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<v Speaker 2>that weren't weren't. So I was caught up in that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's and I can see that happening so easily,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just when you're when you are in love,

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<v Speaker 1>even when you get that that feeling in your gut

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<v Speaker 1>that something is not right, but we push it away.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't listen to it too often. So you had

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<v Speaker 1>that feeling, I did, yeah, And you just said, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably just.

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<v Speaker 2>Nerves, I did, you know? Yeah, I mean there were

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of things that happened even between being engaged

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<v Speaker 2>and getting married, and I just pushed it away.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and a lot of us do, you know, And

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<v Speaker 1>then I sometimes you have to learn by fire, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know when you figure things out that geez,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I fonally I would have paid attention to that,

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<v Speaker 1>to that inner that inner voice that tries to steer

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<v Speaker 1>you I call your guardian angel.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe right. I mean, it's amazing again with all the

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<v Speaker 2>information today and what I've learned since I walked away

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<v Speaker 2>twelve years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, let's talk about that. What when did you

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<v Speaker 1>first realize, you know, that.

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<v Speaker 2>This was not the relationship for you, not the relationship

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<v Speaker 2>that I necessarily thought it was. Uh, you know it

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<v Speaker 2>it was evolving over years. But and you know, I know,

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<v Speaker 2>people in different relationships see things differently. And I call

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<v Speaker 2>it sort of a spectrum of relationships because you have

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<v Speaker 2>people who are in very abuse of relationships where there's

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<v Speaker 2>physical violence, and then you have other parts of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>relationships where it's just people are arguing or it's psychological,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it's really hard to define unless it's obvious.

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<v Speaker 1>How long were you married for?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we got married in nineteen ninety seven, so officially

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen years, but it took a few years.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so like how long until you said, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>Well did you go for did you go to therapy?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Therapy, lots of therapy. It was lots of therapy.

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<v Speaker 1>Was he willing to go with you to therapy? Sometimes?

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes? And in my mind, I was never going to

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<v Speaker 2>get divorced. It just wasn't an option. I grew up

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<v Speaker 2>in a family of you know, my mother had gotten

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<v Speaker 2>divorced my father, and although it didn't look like this exactly,

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<v Speaker 2>I just was never going to do it. So I

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<v Speaker 2>tried everything. And you had children, had three children right away?

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<v Speaker 1>Or did you wait?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we waited a couple of years or so, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was involved. I had my career two and so,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, living in New York City, and the career

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<v Speaker 2>that I had, I was very busy. I was in

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<v Speaker 2>the entertainment business and music business. So I was very distracted,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can do that in New York City. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was easy not to pay attention to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of things. And I had the kids, and I had family,

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<v Speaker 2>and then my mother got sick and she passed away,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it was there was a lot of other

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<v Speaker 2>things happening where I didn't have to pay attention so

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<v Speaker 2>much until we moved to Connecticut.

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<v Speaker 1>So what was the catalyst to move to Connecticut?

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<v Speaker 2>My mother, I'd stopped working after our second child. It

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<v Speaker 2>was just a lot My job was a twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>to seven job. And I'm one hundred and fifty percent person.

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<v Speaker 2>So when I had my kids, I was doing that

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty percent was doing my job, and

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<v Speaker 2>I just I said, they need to take a break

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<v Speaker 2>to focus on being a mom.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that's beautiful. It's being a mom's a full time job.

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<v Speaker 2>Full time job. And so I did that. And then

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<v Speaker 2>when my mother got sick a couple of years later

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<v Speaker 2>or so, we ended up moving out after three kids.

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<v Speaker 2>We weren't we didn't have the money, and we weren't

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<v Speaker 2>going to put our kids in private school in New

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<v Speaker 2>York City. They were in public school. That was great,

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<v Speaker 2>but we ended up moving out of the city for

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<v Speaker 2>more space and for the school system.

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<v Speaker 1>Right right, So you're in Connecticut. You get a house

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<v Speaker 1>in the burbs, if you will.

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<v Speaker 2>And ull traumatizing for me moving out of New York City.

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<v Speaker 1>It took a while, but you're from there, so you

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<v Speaker 1>kind of went back to your roots. You know, how

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<v Speaker 1>did your kids were? They were they older? Are they

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<v Speaker 1>still young?

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<v Speaker 2>They were ten, seven and three, Okay, So there was

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of running around and a lot of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to acclimate too, and honestly, you know, when

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<v Speaker 2>you're sitting in silence, you know, a lot of things

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<v Speaker 2>come to light.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's when you started to realize that maybe this

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<v Speaker 1>was not what you signed up for.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just a lot of things came to light and

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<v Speaker 2>things started changing and looking very different over the next

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<v Speaker 2>few years.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to ask you, you know, you know someone

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<v Speaker 1>who's been in a relationship where you know it's not

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<v Speaker 1>awez roses and you have gone to therapy, what was

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<v Speaker 1>your you know, your aha moment that said, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>that made you decide this is enough. Was there a

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<v Speaker 1>single catalyst or a bunch of small things that set

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<v Speaker 1>off maybe some silent alarms.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean there were a few things I could say.

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<v Speaker 2>I I found some text messages that were a little alarming,

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<v Speaker 2>and I ended up investigating that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So there were things that came up that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>cross lines.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's you know, it's so crazy because many of

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<v Speaker 1>our listeners hear the words dometic abuse and they picture bruises.

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<v Speaker 1>You've said, you know, sometimes the deepest scars are invisible,

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<v Speaker 1>and I know, having gone through grief that you know

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of times people wear their scars on the outside.

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<v Speaker 1>But some of the most emotional and traumatic scars are

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<v Speaker 1>worn on the inside where people can't see it. And

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<v Speaker 1>can you just describe what coercive control is and inn

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<v Speaker 1>everyday term so our listeners can kind of understand because

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<v Speaker 1>I know you've done so much research out there, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and you don't speak specifically about yourself, but about the

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<v Speaker 1>women that you've come in contact with and talked to.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know the information that has come into my world.

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<v Speaker 2>I am a knowledgeist, power person, so I've done a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of research over the last several years. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>understand really what my life looked like, what was happening

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<v Speaker 2>around it, and even from parts of my childhood. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>people don't understand coercive control and what that is is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's terminology like manipulation and controlling behaviors. And this could

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<v Speaker 2>be from your boss, this could be from a parent,

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<v Speaker 2>this could be from a spouse, and and it looks

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<v Speaker 2>different on so many counts, which is what I talked about,

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<v Speaker 2>the spectrum of behavior and in relationships and so so

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<v Speaker 2>manipulation and control certain things like that people don't understand.

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<v Speaker 2>You say, oh, they're just ignoring me, or we're not

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<v Speaker 2>communicating well or they're just telling me what I can

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<v Speaker 2>and can't do with our money financial and so there's

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<v Speaker 2>financial abuse some relationships where people say there are only

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<v Speaker 2>allot a certain amount of money every week, and they

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<v Speaker 2>start to believe that certain situations are normal. Yes, And

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<v Speaker 2>as you're living through them month after month, year after year,

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<v Speaker 2>it's confusing because, and I've talked to a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>different women, you start to believe this is the norm.

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<v Speaker 2>And people have likened it to putting a frog in

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<v Speaker 2>water on a slow boil on the stove, and after

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<v Speaker 2>a while, the frog gets used to this and they

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<v Speaker 2>slowly just die and it's not like, you know, people

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<v Speaker 2>used to put a lobster in a boiling pot of

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<v Speaker 2>water and they would die instantly, and that seems very

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<v Speaker 2>traumatic and sudden. And when you're doing it like that

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a slow boil.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't even realize it's happening, realize it. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's crazy because when I was a financial advisor before

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<v Speaker 1>I became a mental health advocate, and I cannot tell

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<v Speaker 1>you the amount of women that would come into my

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<v Speaker 1>office who knew nothing about finances when their husbands would die,

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<v Speaker 1>especially at the older generation, they didn't even know how

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<v Speaker 1>to write a check, not that we write checks anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean everything was auto made it, but just the

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<v Speaker 1>simple you know, financial things. They just left everything to

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<v Speaker 1>the man and they had no clue as to whether

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<v Speaker 1>they had anything or you know, And it was shocking

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<v Speaker 1>to me how many women. And I made it my

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<v Speaker 1>business to teach people this is the ABCS of investing.

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<v Speaker 1>This is what you have to know. You have to understand,

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<v Speaker 1>you know how to It's like the business. You are

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<v Speaker 1>the CEO of you. You have to take care of you.

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<v Speaker 1>So that I and we.

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<v Speaker 2>Grew up in a really unusual time, those of us

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<v Speaker 2>who grew up in the seventies and eighties, especially because

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<v Speaker 2>we had the fifties and sixties where this was the norm,

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<v Speaker 2>where the men took care of everything, the women stayed

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<v Speaker 2>at home and made dinner, and they didn't really have

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<v Speaker 2>any knowledge. I mean, think about and I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>the exact dates, but I think it was nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 2>five or when women were first allowed to use a

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<v Speaker 2>credit card. And this is after during the sexual Revolution,

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<v Speaker 2>when people were you know, peace.

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<v Speaker 1>Love and.

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<v Speaker 2>Traveling around and women were free spirited. But it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily like that. And it certainly wasn't always like that,

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<v Speaker 2>And so for those of us growing up in the eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>this was the norm that boys and girls. We went

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<v Speaker 2>out and we could do whatever we wanted. We went

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<v Speaker 2>to college, and we didn't really think about this. But

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that in the background of all of this,

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<v Speaker 2>the men and the patriarchal mindset. It's a mindset. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not just men, it could be women too, but it

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<v Speaker 2>is a mindset that mostly the men had the power

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<v Speaker 2>over finances, over relationship, over government, over a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>different things.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, that's so true because growing up I was

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<v Speaker 1>in the financial business and it was mostly a male

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<v Speaker 1>dominated business where you know, the financial advisors were mostly men.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember I went in Earl Lynch and I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to be a financial advisor when I got

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<v Speaker 1>out of college, and you know, the manager looks at Alaska,

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<v Speaker 1>you should be an assistant, a secretary. You know you'll

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<v Speaker 1>be good at that, And so of course I'm like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, not realizing, and after a couple of years

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<v Speaker 1>of that, I realized, no, I am smart. I know

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm doing. I went out and I got my

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<v Speaker 1>licensing and I went on my own and I became

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<v Speaker 1>an independent financial advisor, and because you could, we were

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<v Speaker 1>breaking down walls in the ninety It took us a while,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, let's talk about that, because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you've spoken about the family court and the labyrinth that

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<v Speaker 1>it is to get through. So here you are, you're

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<v Speaker 1>recognizing there's things are not right. You want to get

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<v Speaker 1>out of this marriage. But how did the courtroom? How

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<v Speaker 1>did the family court in Connecticut? How did that work

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<v Speaker 1>with you? How did that feel compared to the battlefield

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<v Speaker 1>you were fighting just in your own home as well, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when you had kids too, so you're dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with all of that on top of.

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<v Speaker 2>This, right, I mean, it's already traumatic and difficult enough

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<v Speaker 2>to say that you want to end your marriage and

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<v Speaker 2>your relationship, knowing what it's going to be like for

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<v Speaker 2>the children. I mean, you know, I was in therapy.

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to get guidance through it and to

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<v Speaker 2>do the best thing. And I did grow up with

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<v Speaker 2>my mom and dad divorce, and I had a stepfather,

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<v Speaker 2>and not that it was always easy, but our in laws,

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<v Speaker 2>my grandparents on all sides, we would all go to

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<v Speaker 2>each other's holidays, and again it wasn't always easy, but

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<v Speaker 2>this is the way it was. In my grandmother's home.

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<v Speaker 2>She would have my cousin's mother even though they were

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<v Speaker 2>doing so that was the norm to me. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I know this was going to be difficult, but we'll

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<v Speaker 2>work together and we'll make it okay for the kids.

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<v Speaker 2>And so as this, I understand the first several months

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<v Speaker 2>or a year or two can be difficult and challenging. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but what I was not prepared for what was to come.

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<v Speaker 2>So we got attorneys, backtruck. We had a mediator because

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to do this a nice way and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in a way that would be as amicable as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was anything but yeah, shocking, And we each

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<v Speaker 2>hired attorneys and we went to court, and I remember

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<v Speaker 2>going several times over the course of the first year

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<v Speaker 2>and two saying, well, we've got the truth and we've

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<v Speaker 2>got the facts, and there is nothing else. And that

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<v Speaker 2>used to be my mantra, there's nothing else. This is

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<v Speaker 2>a court of law, and here we go, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in my twelfth year dealing with truth and facts and

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00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:04.319
<v Speaker 2>it is dystopy. And what I've come to realize is

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<v Speaker 2>happening in the family courts and what I've been through

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00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.880
<v Speaker 2>and as I've opened up my world and gained knowledge

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<v Speaker 2>into this. What is happening in Connecticut, what is happening

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00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.880
<v Speaker 2>in every state, and what is happening around the world

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<v Speaker 2>is shocking and I wouldn't have believed it, I suppose

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<v Speaker 2>unless I was dealing with it myself.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, can you give us, like some some highlights on

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<v Speaker 1>on that. What are you saying? What shocking? What is

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<v Speaker 1>what is it like when you're when you're in this situation.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, standing in a courtroom and presenting documents and

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<v Speaker 2>presenting information to someone who is a layman like myself,

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<v Speaker 2>or at least I was. I'm an honorary attorney at

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<v Speaker 2>this point, but someone who is dealing with this. You

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<v Speaker 2>see what's laid out in front of you, but what

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<v Speaker 2>the judges are handing back as orders and how they

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<v Speaker 2>are processing the information about you and about your children,

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<v Speaker 2>and the situation comes back as twisted narrative and twisted orders.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're saying, here's what's happened, here are the numbers

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00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.880
<v Speaker 2>and the information, and we need to process this so

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00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.519
<v Speaker 2>we can get divorced and move along. And let's say

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00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:36.599
<v Speaker 2>the other side is presenting different information to me. You're thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a judge and they're there to assess the

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00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:44.319
<v Speaker 2>information with law and order behind them and to give

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00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.720
<v Speaker 2>an order and a path ahead that makes sense, that

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00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:53.759
<v Speaker 2>is structured in law, constitutional law, and due process, which

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00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>means it's due process. You are allowed a specific process

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<v Speaker 2>that is outlined.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there are laws. There's laws that you are entitled

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<v Speaker 1>to child support. You're in child you know, I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know the numbers or anything like that, but

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<v Speaker 1>I know generally from friends or families that have got it.

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00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.000
<v Speaker 1>There there's alimony that would be paid, there's child support

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<v Speaker 1>at least while the kids are young, or maybe there's

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<v Speaker 1>a college fund that gets set up for the children

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<v Speaker 1>so that they're taken care of for college. So you're

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<v Speaker 1>telling me that it's not that cutton dry. It's not.

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose in certain situations it is cut and dry.

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<v Speaker 2>But when you're dealing with course of control, and again

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00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:38.279
<v Speaker 2>that can come from certain parties involved. It can come

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00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:44.039
<v Speaker 2>from attorneys, and then they bring in other parties, therapists,

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00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:48.039
<v Speaker 2>psychological evaluators, guardian at items that are supposed to be

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<v Speaker 2>helping the children, and sometimes there is CPS which are

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00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:58.240
<v Speaker 2>government agencies. So in many cases, not just mine, but

359
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<v Speaker 2>in many cases, you are now dealing with with four

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00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.920
<v Speaker 2>or five, six, seven agencies and people.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're paying for this attorney while you're doing all

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<v Speaker 1>of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're paying for almost all of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you kidding me? No?

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<v Speaker 2>And so you know they're telling you or you're ordered

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<v Speaker 2>to do these things, and you I didn't understand. I

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<v Speaker 2>just you're doing what you're being told to do, and

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<v Speaker 2>you're thinking, Okay, we're going to be resolving this soon.

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<v Speaker 2>And then all of a sudden, and again I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>alone in this arena. You are finding your months and

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<v Speaker 2>years into this, and you're talking tens of thousands, hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>of thousands of dollars that most people don't have, that

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't I didn't have, and and so.

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<v Speaker 1>You're telling me that, like, Okay, if I go out

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<v Speaker 1>and I shoot the neighbor, not that I ever would

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<v Speaker 1>do that, but what I you know, and I had

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00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:55.000
<v Speaker 1>no money, I would go to court and I would

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00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.400
<v Speaker 1>be appointed an attorney, that's right. But if I were,

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<v Speaker 1>and I never would do this either. I'm married thirty

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<v Speaker 1>one years happily, thank god. But if I were to

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<v Speaker 1>get divorced from my husband, and I found myself in

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00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:11.000
<v Speaker 1>a situation where I needed an attorney. I just I

383
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.240
<v Speaker 1>have to pay for that, even if I'm don't have

384
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the money or the wherewithal to handle it. Maybe I'm

385
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.880
<v Speaker 1>busy working three jobs supporting my baby. I'm just at

386
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.440
<v Speaker 1>the mercy of the person I want to get away from.

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00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:32.200
<v Speaker 2>You're at the mercy of this what we call a

388
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:37.680
<v Speaker 2>corrupt court system, where there it is there are people

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00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:43.480
<v Speaker 2>who are yielding power, and there is money going around.

390
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.079
<v Speaker 2>And again, I'm twelve years into this, and I have

391
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.119
<v Speaker 2>a lot of knowledge. I have a lot of I've

392
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:56.240
<v Speaker 2>cultivated an enormous amount many relationships of experts in this

393
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.240
<v Speaker 2>field in Connecticut, in the US and globally, so that

394
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.240
<v Speaker 2>now I understand how a lot of this is happening.

395
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:09.319
<v Speaker 2>But yet I'm sitting here and I still can't make

396
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.400
<v Speaker 2>it stop in my very own case. And so it

397
00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:18.200
<v Speaker 2>is really hard to describe how it's all happening, although

398
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:21.559
<v Speaker 2>every day there's more information coming out as to how

399
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:25.759
<v Speaker 2>it's taking place. And it really is the family court,

400
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:30.799
<v Speaker 2>because criminal court, civil court, they are bound by different

401
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:35.119
<v Speaker 2>structures and laws, because they're a jury of our peers,

402
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:37.759
<v Speaker 2>which is what we should have in this court. You

403
00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:42.039
<v Speaker 2>have one person, one judge, who gets to make decisions.

404
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.960
<v Speaker 2>They are not trained, most of them are not trained

405
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:50.039
<v Speaker 2>in domestic abuse. They're not trained in psychology.

406
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:52.319
<v Speaker 1>What about the children? So let's let's let's back up

407
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.200
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. So here you are, you're battling the

408
00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.960
<v Speaker 1>court system. You're trying to keep your children on a

409
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:04.519
<v Speaker 1>healthy path at school. You're for taking them away. Are

410
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you still living with your husband because finances are or

411
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:10.960
<v Speaker 1>have you pulled out and are now trying to you know,

412
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess it goes both ways, you know,

413
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:13.880
<v Speaker 1>depending on.

414
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.640
<v Speaker 2>What you can forward to do well, it doesn't. It

415
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:20.039
<v Speaker 2>depends on who your judges, who your attorneys are, and

416
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:24.640
<v Speaker 2>what your basic knowledge is. And in our case, we

417
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:28.000
<v Speaker 2>were ordered to do this thing called bird nesting, and

418
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:30.799
<v Speaker 2>it's in the name of the best interest of the children.

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00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.200
<v Speaker 2>So they stay in the family home and each of

420
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.720
<v Speaker 2>you is ordered to go find another place to live

421
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:42.279
<v Speaker 2>during while the other person has their parenting time. So

422
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.759
<v Speaker 2>I was for a year almost I was staying in hotels,

423
00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:49.680
<v Speaker 2>I was staying on family and friends couches.

424
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

425
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:53.119
<v Speaker 2>And you could imagine this as a mother of three children,

426
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.240
<v Speaker 2>then watching me pack up my bag on every other

427
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:01.000
<v Speaker 2>weekend and every other Wednesday, and having to figure out

428
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.000
<v Speaker 2>where I was staying and making sure the kids felt

429
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:04.119
<v Speaker 2>okay about this?

430
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.839
<v Speaker 1>How can they? I mean, who makes these rules? That's

431
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:09.000
<v Speaker 1>that's insane.

432
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:12.759
<v Speaker 2>That's part of this is that there are no rules

433
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and it is very random. And you know, someone like me,

434
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I consider myself a very strong person, right

435
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.519
<v Speaker 2>and I'm resilient and I've been through a lot in

436
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.799
<v Speaker 2>my life. And there are others who who who cannot

437
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:28.799
<v Speaker 2>deal with this. I mean, I have moms calling me

438
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.880
<v Speaker 2>literally every day, sobbing, and they're so forlorn and you're

439
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:36.440
<v Speaker 2>trying to keep them from doing something drastic because they

440
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:38.000
<v Speaker 2>feel helpless.

441
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.359
<v Speaker 1>And and that brings me that you know, you're going

442
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.960
<v Speaker 1>through all of this, and you know, just regular life,

443
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:45.079
<v Speaker 1>you go through ups and downs and highs and lows,

444
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.079
<v Speaker 1>and your kids go through things. And so when you're

445
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.559
<v Speaker 1>at your lowest, what or who keeps that pilot light

446
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:57.039
<v Speaker 1>of hope burning for you?

447
00:25:54.920 --> 00:26:01.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, there are a lot of different ways of

448
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.440
<v Speaker 2>dealing with it. Everybody deals with it differently. For me,

449
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:10.359
<v Speaker 2>I had a therapist and I just thought I don't

450
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 2>have a choice. I need to make this right. I

451
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.000
<v Speaker 2>need to do this for me and my kids. And

452
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:20.799
<v Speaker 2>I had little guardian angels and I started doing I

453
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:24.960
<v Speaker 2>started meditating, and you know, you have a couple of

454
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.279
<v Speaker 2>people that are your you know, I had a couple

455
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:31.559
<v Speaker 2>of good friends and family that were by my side.

456
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:34.759
<v Speaker 1>Thank god, thank god you had a support system. I

457
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.920
<v Speaker 1>think now or then, or all of it more than ever,

458
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.559
<v Speaker 1>you need that support system. You need to have, you know,

459
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:47.000
<v Speaker 1>places to go to to talk about these things. Now,

460
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.440
<v Speaker 1>I did do an interview with a woman, doctor Mohatta,

461
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.920
<v Speaker 1>who talked a little bit about how hard it was

462
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:57.160
<v Speaker 1>when you know, thirty years ago, when she went through

463
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.279
<v Speaker 1>a similar situation, and how she volunteers and tries to

464
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:04.839
<v Speaker 1>help people as a psychologist. But I know that you've

465
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:10.200
<v Speaker 1>founded a nonprofit organization called Rock the Walls and this

466
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:13.960
<v Speaker 1>wasn't just like a personal victory or something. It's a

467
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.480
<v Speaker 1>lifeline that you're creating. Can you talk about it, how

468
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:22.279
<v Speaker 1>the idea sparked and what, Yes, you know, yeah, talk

469
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:22.759
<v Speaker 1>about all that.

470
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know. Again, I've been dealing with this for

471
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:32.559
<v Speaker 2>twelve years and it's taken different turns, and again, really

472
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.759
<v Speaker 2>dystoping to me because I think, how is it that

473
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm dealing with this for so long? And people have

474
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.680
<v Speaker 2>said to me, how are you still in court? Why

475
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:42.680
<v Speaker 2>are you still dealing with the divorce? And I said,

476
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:47.200
<v Speaker 2>I've been divorced since twenty sixteen, but this is financial

477
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:55.119
<v Speaker 2>and litigation. And so right before COVID, I was driving around,

478
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.319
<v Speaker 2>or it was actually during COVID, I was driving around

479
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.920
<v Speaker 2>with my father, who came to visit. Been just the

480
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:06.000
<v Speaker 2>most incredible support in every way for us, financially and

481
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:11.079
<v Speaker 2>spiritually and emotionally. I would never have been able to

482
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:16.680
<v Speaker 2>get through this without him. And we were driving around

483
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.079
<v Speaker 2>together one day and we were talking about how we

484
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:22.079
<v Speaker 2>can help people and how we can get out of this.

485
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:26.920
<v Speaker 2>And we started talking about what we can do to

486
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:29.680
<v Speaker 2>help and what I can do to help, and I used,

487
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd say, what would have helped me all of these years? Yes,

488
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.680
<v Speaker 2>And what would have helped me is finding other support

489
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:39.759
<v Speaker 2>and knowing there were other people out there, which I

490
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>had now started to find because I thought I was alone.

491
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:46.119
<v Speaker 2>And I said, what if there was a place to

492
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:49.640
<v Speaker 2>go to get all the information that I needed that

493
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:54.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm just starting to find googling for hours and hours

494
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:58.440
<v Speaker 2>and how could I save this time so that someone

495
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:01.440
<v Speaker 2>could get help right away? Like, and we started talking

496
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:04.480
<v Speaker 2>and we said, you know, a resource hub and also

497
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:07.960
<v Speaker 2>a space where people could come. And we were driving

498
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:10.680
<v Speaker 2>down near the water in Connecticut and we saw a big,

499
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:14.720
<v Speaker 2>beautiful house and property and we said, we would love

500
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:19.599
<v Speaker 2>to have a place like this where any mom with

501
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:24.000
<v Speaker 2>her children could come for respite, for help, for guidance.

502
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:27.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, and stun go and spend their weekends

503
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:29.960
<v Speaker 1>and wednesdays exactly.

504
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, and a place for kids for support and

505
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.799
<v Speaker 2>which is critical, it's and a lot of this really

506
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:40.519
<v Speaker 2>does come back to the kids. And you know, as

507
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:45.359
<v Speaker 2>moms especially, we put so much outside of ourselves for

508
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.640
<v Speaker 2>our children, right and we exhaust you know, we all

509
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:50.960
<v Speaker 2>know it's a twenty four hour day job. You know,

510
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.680
<v Speaker 2>we don't get weekends off. You don't get nights off

511
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.519
<v Speaker 2>when they're sick or when they need help. And you know,

512
00:29:56.599 --> 00:29:59.599
<v Speaker 2>people say, you're only as happy as your most unhappy child,

513
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:04.480
<v Speaker 2>and so this is what we do. And then we're

514
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:06.200
<v Speaker 2>dealing with all of this on the outside.

515
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 1>So your nonprofit is building, So your building is you're

516
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:12.720
<v Speaker 1>it's a it's you're building a one stop digital portal

517
00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:16.279
<v Speaker 1>so survivors don't have to google in the dark anymore.

518
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:23.920
<v Speaker 1>And I think that is so unbelievably brilliant and it's

519
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 1>so native in today's world. And I know that, you know,

520
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:32.079
<v Speaker 1>you're in the process of building it, and during this time,

521
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:38.440
<v Speaker 1>you've you know, assembled court watchers volunteers. Can you talk

522
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.519
<v Speaker 1>about those people who sit in hearings for proceedings and

523
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:43.279
<v Speaker 1>a little background on that.

524
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that will be the first program that

525
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:52.480
<v Speaker 2>we start when we start getting funding and people start donating. Really, yeah,

526
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:55.480
<v Speaker 2>it was part of a big change in my case

527
00:30:55.559 --> 00:31:01.640
<v Speaker 2>last year after eleven years, I started how having people

528
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:06.200
<v Speaker 2>come in, Advocates and people who are interested in the

529
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:09.279
<v Speaker 2>law and what was actually happening in family court come

530
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:13.440
<v Speaker 2>in and what we call court watch or observe cases

531
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:18.119
<v Speaker 2>in family court because it's different in every state. But

532
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.759
<v Speaker 2>you are sitting in this courtroom by yourself, and yes

533
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:27.440
<v Speaker 2>there are transcripts, but there are no videos, and there's

534
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:32.160
<v Speaker 2>nobody there taking take there. There's nobody accounting for what's

535
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:36.960
<v Speaker 2>being said, what's being done, and how it's being done.

536
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:39.440
<v Speaker 2>So when you have somebody coming and sitting there just

537
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:45.960
<v Speaker 2>being an observer witness taking notes and they see things

538
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.680
<v Speaker 2>that are not right and not correct. Well, then everybody,

539
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:54.640
<v Speaker 2>everybody is on the stand, including the judges, including the attorneys,

540
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.559
<v Speaker 2>and we in this world, across the country, have been

541
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:03.640
<v Speaker 2>seen movement in this. So whether you have one person

542
00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:08.039
<v Speaker 2>or you have ten, it's critical because you can't dispute

543
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:11.160
<v Speaker 2>what a witness and you can, but you can't dispute

544
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:14.640
<v Speaker 2>what an impartial witness states. Yes, and the notes they're

545
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:15.519
<v Speaker 2>taking well.

546
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:17.640
<v Speaker 1>And that brings me. I remember when I was in college,

547
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:21.200
<v Speaker 1>I took a law class and one of the part

548
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:23.559
<v Speaker 1>of the curriculum was you had to go to the

549
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:25.759
<v Speaker 1>local court and you had to sit in on a

550
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:28.960
<v Speaker 1>court case. Yes, now, wouldn't that be brilliant if we

551
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:32.640
<v Speaker 1>get all these college kids going in and seeing what

552
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:33.240
<v Speaker 1>goes on.

553
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:35.759
<v Speaker 2>I actually had a friend who called me who knew

554
00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:37.960
<v Speaker 2>what I was doing, who said her daughter was sitting

555
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.559
<v Speaker 2>in last year taking she was a law student and

556
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:45.359
<v Speaker 2>they centered a family court hearing in Maryland and she

557
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:49.799
<v Speaker 2>observed this, and I said, this needs to be what

558
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:53.240
<v Speaker 2>every court And so that is a program and people

559
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.799
<v Speaker 2>are doing it. And so somebody came and did that

560
00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:02.319
<v Speaker 2>in my case, and what she observed was was unbelievable,

561
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:06.640
<v Speaker 2>and she on her own went to Connecticut judiciary and

562
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:10.079
<v Speaker 2>she filed her own report unbeknownst to me. Wow, because

563
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.160
<v Speaker 2>she was just doing this on her own. And honestly,

564
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:15.839
<v Speaker 2>what I saw in my very own cases past year,

565
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:22.200
<v Speaker 2>it just solidified what I knew needed to be done

566
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:29.640
<v Speaker 2>and and to this point, what she did legally should

567
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.640
<v Speaker 2>have been adhere to and should have made movement. And

568
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:38.759
<v Speaker 2>sixteen months later after she sat in that courtroom, it

569
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:41.799
<v Speaker 2>still hasn't made a shift in my case.

570
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:43.799
<v Speaker 1>That's unbelievable.

571
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we can have a whole, but that is the truth.

572
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.880
<v Speaker 2>And so what Rock the Walls is going to do

573
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:56.359
<v Speaker 2>is bringing what I really am wanting to do, not

574
00:33:56.440 --> 00:34:00.160
<v Speaker 2>reinvent any wheel, to bring everything under one umbrella, the

575
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:05.319
<v Speaker 2>brilliant voices, all of the brilliant men and women, mostly women,

576
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.960
<v Speaker 2>but there are men and women, the children's voices, people

577
00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:12.159
<v Speaker 2>into one space. So you don't have to google, and

578
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to go searching. So if you need

579
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:19.039
<v Speaker 2>a support group in the middle of Minnesota, I want

580
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.199
<v Speaker 2>you to be able to go to Rock the Walls

581
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.800
<v Speaker 2>and find that that's fantastic.

582
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Now you've been lobbying really hard for Jennifer's Law. Now,

583
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.800
<v Speaker 1>for those of you that live in a cave like

584
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:33.760
<v Speaker 1>I sometimes do, Jennifer Dulo's was a Connecticut mom who

585
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:39.360
<v Speaker 1>was going through a really tough divorce and her ex

586
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:44.400
<v Speaker 1>husband was responsible for her death. I think he was.

587
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.800
<v Speaker 1>I think he was, yeah, and then I think he

588
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:50.559
<v Speaker 1>died before maybe he was not. He killed himself before

589
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.400
<v Speaker 1>he was convicted or after yeah, before, but his girlfriend

590
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 1>I think got convicted. But anyway, so it's called Jennifer's.

591
00:34:56.559 --> 00:35:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Law, and it is also based on another Jennifer, Jennifer Ignano,

592
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:03.960
<v Speaker 2>who was murdered in front of her children, oh, several

593
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.960
<v Speaker 2>years ago. So it is called Jennifer's Law with an

594
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:10.280
<v Speaker 2>s aposters because it's it's it's for both of them.

595
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:14.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's amazing. Yes, And so they're expanding Connecticut's definition

596
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:19.320
<v Speaker 1>of abuse, which is really crucial. Can you tell me

597
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:22.280
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about the bill that you're championing and

598
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.840
<v Speaker 1>maybe about that. I think there's a new book that

599
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:25.559
<v Speaker 1>just came out.

600
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, well, so, so Jennifer's Law was actually put

601
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.599
<v Speaker 2>into place two or three years ago, and you know,

602
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:40.079
<v Speaker 2>here's here's the issue. Jennifer's law talks about course of control,

603
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:42.480
<v Speaker 2>and when it first came out, people said, attorneys that

604
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I know, said, it has no teeth. And the truth

605
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.760
<v Speaker 2>of the matter is there are laws already in place.

606
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:55.239
<v Speaker 2>For example, perjury is a Class D felony, so you

607
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>would think one would think, well, if someone perjures themselves,

608
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:01.960
<v Speaker 2>well they are, they.

609
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Should have consequences.

610
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Consequences of being you know, there's it's a you are,

611
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:10.920
<v Speaker 2>it's a felonise. You're breaking the law. And if I

612
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:15.880
<v Speaker 2>could tell you that most of the most egregious situations

613
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:20.559
<v Speaker 2>that we all deal with is perjury, I and I

614
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:24.320
<v Speaker 2>could say this very confidently, have never perjured myself, which

615
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:25.960
<v Speaker 2>is why it's easy for me to go and give

616
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:29.519
<v Speaker 2>testimony because I'm telling my truth. But when someone goes

617
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.760
<v Speaker 2>and they lie on the stand and they perjure themselves

618
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.559
<v Speaker 2>in family court, I can tell you that most of

619
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:42.599
<v Speaker 2>the time on the other side of things, it is ignored.

620
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:48.199
<v Speaker 2>It is ignored. Just like these laws perjury, the Constitution

621
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:52.239
<v Speaker 2>are due process rights. There are amendments, there are statutes,

622
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:55.119
<v Speaker 2>and there are case law. And many of us go

623
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.840
<v Speaker 2>in fighting year after year screaming about these laws, and

624
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:03.039
<v Speaker 2>they are ignored because we don't have a jury of

625
00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:08.440
<v Speaker 2>our peers because nobody really has to listen. And at

626
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:12.599
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, family court is an administrative court.

627
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.119
<v Speaker 2>And so I circle back to these laws. We have

628
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer's Law and it's about course of control, and many

629
00:37:18.519 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 2>of us have tried to utilize Jennifer's Law in our

630
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:27.360
<v Speaker 2>cases and they're dismissed. It's very simply dismissed. And there's

631
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a law called Caden's Law which all the states are

632
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.840
<v Speaker 2>trying to enact, which we're trying to bring Connecticut, and

633
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:37.960
<v Speaker 2>it is it's a law after a little girl in

634
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:44.119
<v Speaker 2>who was murdered by her abusive parent in Pennsylvania, and

635
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:50.320
<v Speaker 2>the judges allowed this child to go and have visitation

636
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:55.119
<v Speaker 2>with her father. He was a documented abuser. He had

637
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:59.280
<v Speaker 2>been arrested many times. And part of the issue is

638
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:02.599
<v Speaker 2>that this happened way too often and it's not covered

639
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.639
<v Speaker 2>by the media, so most people don't understand. It's just

640
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:09.360
<v Speaker 2>a larger part of all the work that many of

641
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:11.199
<v Speaker 2>us are doing to shine a light on this.

642
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:13.000
<v Speaker 1>I know you said there was a new book that

643
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.199
<v Speaker 1>came out shining a Light on Jennifer.

644
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Dulos Yes by rich Cohen Rich Cohen and it's called

645
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:27.519
<v Speaker 2>uh Murder and Murder in the Dollhouse. And he just

646
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:29.800
<v Speaker 2>wrote this book a few just came out a few

647
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:33.480
<v Speaker 2>weeks ago, and it is a story about Jennifer Dulos

648
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:36.280
<v Speaker 2>who was murdered a couple of towns over in New

649
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.039
<v Speaker 2>Canaan in Connecticut, and it got a lot of national

650
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:43.760
<v Speaker 2>spotlight because she and her husband were Ivy League. You know,

651
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:45.679
<v Speaker 2>it was a bigger case because when you shine a

652
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:49.320
<v Speaker 2>light on these bigger names and cases and people who

653
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:51.920
<v Speaker 2>have a lot of money, the media seems to cover that.

654
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.880
<v Speaker 2>And of course this happens every single day, but this

655
00:38:56.039 --> 00:39:00.239
<v Speaker 2>book seems to be something he is exposing what is

656
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:05.679
<v Speaker 2>happening good in Connecticut and very specifically in Stamford Family Court. Wow,

657
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.840
<v Speaker 2>which is very interesting and a lot of us will

658
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:10.800
<v Speaker 2>be talking about this in the next in the coming months.

659
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Now. I know you're from Connecticut as I am, but

660
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:17.599
<v Speaker 1>I how are the laws different like maybe in other

661
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:19.199
<v Speaker 1>states like Arizona.

662
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know again, and people tend to really not

663
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.519
<v Speaker 2>understand this, and I didn't. It's not about the laws,

664
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:35.440
<v Speaker 2>it's how they're being enforced and enacted. So what's been

665
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:40.079
<v Speaker 2>happening in Arizona. You actually have some good people behind

666
00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:46.199
<v Speaker 2>the laws, judiciary, legislation, and they understand and people have

667
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:50.000
<v Speaker 2>been so forceful about what is going on in family court.

668
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:54.119
<v Speaker 2>They've been having hearings in the last couple of months,

669
00:39:54.679 --> 00:40:00.559
<v Speaker 2>and people have been giving testimony, men and women, protective

670
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:05.159
<v Speaker 2>parents and children have been coming in and giving testimony,

671
00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:08.639
<v Speaker 2>and it's all public. It's all on social media. And

672
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:13.239
<v Speaker 2>I have been watching this and completely blown away by

673
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:17.639
<v Speaker 2>this testimony and what they're saying very loudly about the

674
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:22.400
<v Speaker 2>family courts in the United States. Can't you can't block

675
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.639
<v Speaker 2>this out, you can't turn it off. And it's happening

676
00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:29.920
<v Speaker 2>justice past week in Idaho, and it's happening in other states.

677
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:36.719
<v Speaker 2>So I have been trying to contact many different people

678
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.880
<v Speaker 2>and administrators in Connecticut in the past few weeks and

679
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:43.840
<v Speaker 2>letting them know, wow, you know, we have an opportunity

680
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.760
<v Speaker 2>here in Connecticut to be on the right side of this,

681
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 2>to be one of these states, because if they heard

682
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the testimony of a lot of the protective parents, mostly mothers,

683
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.760
<v Speaker 2>but protective parents here in our state, and the children

684
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:02.199
<v Speaker 2>who have aged out who want to come and give

685
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:07.159
<v Speaker 2>their hear their have their voices heard and give testimony. Uh,

686
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:08.679
<v Speaker 2>they have an opportunity to do this.

687
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:13.559
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing, It's amazingly so you are breaking down.

688
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.760
<v Speaker 2>The walls, you know, you know, alongside all of these

689
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:20.360
<v Speaker 2>other incredible voices. Really wow.

690
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:24.239
<v Speaker 1>So I'm gonna make like a situation here if you

691
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:29.280
<v Speaker 1>had a magic wand let's just say, for your Rock

692
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:36.360
<v Speaker 1>the Walls Foundation, and if you could, you know, if

693
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:40.199
<v Speaker 1>paint a picture for us, if a survivor clicks on

694
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:43.840
<v Speaker 1>it at two am, what are you hoping when when

695
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.840
<v Speaker 1>this is all what she will feel in that instant.

696
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:57.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping that anyone who is you know, uncertain about

697
00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:01.519
<v Speaker 2>their relationship. I'm shifted this a little in the last

698
00:42:01.639 --> 00:42:04.840
<v Speaker 2>year that I initially launched Rock the Walls because the

699
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.920
<v Speaker 2>initially was about you know, victims of abuse, but honestly,

700
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:13.960
<v Speaker 2>not everybody understands that they are dealing with a situation

701
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.840
<v Speaker 2>that is abusive, right because people, you know, that's a

702
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:22.039
<v Speaker 2>nuanced term. And what I want people is to be

703
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.239
<v Speaker 2>able to come to this space when they're feeling uncomfortable

704
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:29.639
<v Speaker 2>about their relationship uncertain and so many people are today

705
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:34.000
<v Speaker 2>with dating and dating apps. So I want someone to

706
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:36.360
<v Speaker 2>be able to come here from the beginning to navigate

707
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:40.519
<v Speaker 2>healthy relationships. So when they come to rock the walls,

708
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:43.360
<v Speaker 2>they can start out by saying, what is a healthy relationship?

709
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:46.880
<v Speaker 2>What does it look like when your partner does ABC

710
00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:52.159
<v Speaker 2>or D. Can I meet up with other people in

711
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:56.159
<v Speaker 2>my area that I can talk to? Can I find

712
00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:59.199
<v Speaker 2>a safe space? Can I read a book that makes sense?

713
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Who do I follow online? How do I join a group?

714
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:09.039
<v Speaker 2>What if somebody wants to help and also be supportive?

715
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:13.679
<v Speaker 2>What if you're a parent, or sibling or a friend

716
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and they want to know how to help somebody going

717
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:18.800
<v Speaker 2>through this. I want everyone to go to this space

718
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:24.199
<v Speaker 2>and my magic wand is I'd like to be done

719
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:27.360
<v Speaker 2>with my case so I can focus on this and

720
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:31.800
<v Speaker 2>what when you ask me how this started? My background

721
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:35.360
<v Speaker 2>is in music and entertainment, and to me, music has

722
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:38.239
<v Speaker 2>been a part of my life since the day I

723
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:41.039
<v Speaker 2>was born. Like many of us, since you know, our

724
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:45.440
<v Speaker 2>mothers would sing lullabies to us, and from that to

725
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:50.519
<v Speaker 2>the music from our childhood, from our formative years, from

726
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.360
<v Speaker 2>when we're out, you know, living from our sad moments

727
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:59.800
<v Speaker 2>to our most powerful moments. Music is there for most

728
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:02.559
<v Speaker 2>of us, and for me it's played a huge role

729
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.960
<v Speaker 2>and so it is the universal language. You know, I'm

730
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.079
<v Speaker 2>speaking today, but not everybody cares what I have to say,

731
00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:14.440
<v Speaker 2>but they will listen to people who are out there,

732
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:19.039
<v Speaker 2>who've written about abuse, who sung about it, from to

733
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Christina Aguilera, and there are a lot of voices out

734
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:25.519
<v Speaker 2>there that people listen to. So what I want to

735
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:29.639
<v Speaker 2>do is get those people and these voices on stage, yes,

736
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:33.079
<v Speaker 2>and bring them into one space so that they can

737
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:37.679
<v Speaker 2>tell the story that thousands and thousands of us need

738
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:41.039
<v Speaker 2>them to tell, yes, and so that we can rock

739
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:44.679
<v Speaker 2>the walls and rock the stage and get this information

740
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:45.199
<v Speaker 2>out there.

741
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, because those court systems need to be rattled, they

742
00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:49.119
<v Speaker 1>really do.

743
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:53.079
<v Speaker 2>And people need to understand because it is your neighbor.

744
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:56.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're walking down the street. It is happening

745
00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:59.519
<v Speaker 2>in every neighborhood. It is happening in every town. It

746
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:04.639
<v Speaker 2>is happen in every state, It is happening in every country. Wow,

747
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:05.320
<v Speaker 2>it is.

748
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:10.760
<v Speaker 1>That's crazy crazy. Do you have you heard from someone

749
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:18.119
<v Speaker 1>whose life changed because of your advocacy? You know.

750
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:25.639
<v Speaker 2>I can say, because I've done the research. Right now,

751
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I could say my life is changing because of the brilliant,

752
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:34.719
<v Speaker 2>brilliant other women, mostly women there are some men who

753
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:38.639
<v Speaker 2>are in this space who are changing lives everywhere, and

754
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I feel really blessed to be part of this circle

755
00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:46.360
<v Speaker 2>now and just in Connecticut. What I'm trying to do

756
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.960
<v Speaker 2>right now is bring a lot of these moms who

757
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:54.239
<v Speaker 2>are suffering and struggling so much more than I am

758
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:57.800
<v Speaker 2>right now, into one space, and we're actively doing that

759
00:45:58.199 --> 00:45:59.679
<v Speaker 2>so that they are not alone.

760
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:07.199
<v Speaker 1>If Connecticut became the gold standard, what would be like

761
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.400
<v Speaker 1>the blueprint for taking this movement national? What do you think?

762
00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:16.639
<v Speaker 2>You know? Really, the family court needs to be dismantled

763
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and restructured so that when you get to a certain

764
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:24.320
<v Speaker 2>place in a divorce process, it is set. It is

765
00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 2>taken to just a completely other space where there's a

766
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:31.639
<v Speaker 2>jury of your peers, where there's a different system, and

767
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:37.039
<v Speaker 2>that all the states are aligned. You've got the training

768
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:41.519
<v Speaker 2>that is critical, the knowledge of what course of control

769
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:45.159
<v Speaker 2>and what abuse and what manipulation looked like, and everybody

770
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 2>follows the same gold standard.

771
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:50.079
<v Speaker 1>As you said, Oh my god, wouldn't that be amazing?

772
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Now I've heard that there might be a film about

773
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:56.280
<v Speaker 1>the situation going on. Talk to me about that.

774
00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, again, with all of these people in

775
00:46:58.920 --> 00:46:59.599
<v Speaker 2>our circles.

776
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

777
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:06.639
<v Speaker 2>I connected with an old friend from high school who

778
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.559
<v Speaker 2>a few years ago, who I discovered was dealing with

779
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:11.199
<v Speaker 2>the same situation that I was.

780
00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:11.719
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

781
00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:16.559
<v Speaker 2>And she's just a brilliant, incredible woman who's an inspiration

782
00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>to me because she's been going through this. And we

783
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:23.599
<v Speaker 2>started talking two or three years ago, and she introduced

784
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:26.599
<v Speaker 2>me to a friend of hers who is award winning

785
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:30.400
<v Speaker 2>producer in la and we all started to connect. And

786
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:33.760
<v Speaker 2>as she heard our stories and what was happening a

787
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:36.280
<v Speaker 2>couple of years ago, she said, We've got to do

788
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:38.480
<v Speaker 2>a film. She's a documentary filmmaker.

789
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

790
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:43.039
<v Speaker 2>And what has come together in the last year is

791
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:46.360
<v Speaker 2>we are in pre production for a film called House

792
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:46.960
<v Speaker 2>of Mirrors.

793
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:48.159
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

794
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.760
<v Speaker 2>And the idea is that when you walk into a

795
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.159
<v Speaker 2>court and you think you're walking into a place where

796
00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:58.559
<v Speaker 2>there's you know, law and there's justice, and what you're

797
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:01.199
<v Speaker 2>walking into is a house of mirrors where you're bumping

798
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.760
<v Speaker 2>into walls and nothing looks or seems as it is.

799
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:10.199
<v Speaker 2>And we have brought some of the top voices in

800
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:16.039
<v Speaker 2>this world of domestic abuse and coursive control into this

801
00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 2>space as our partners. So we are in pre production,

802
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:26.559
<v Speaker 2>we are we are presently taking funding and donations, and

803
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:29.039
<v Speaker 2>the minute we get you know, twenty five to fifty

804
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.400
<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars, our team is going to be here filming

805
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:32.079
<v Speaker 2>in Connecticut.

806
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:34.440
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing, it's really exciting.

807
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:38.360
<v Speaker 2>And I have to give a special note to our well.

808
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Our producer is Marisa Pulvino, who's incredible and done brilliant films.

809
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:47.599
<v Speaker 2>And our director is Kai Dickens, who anybody who has

810
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:51.840
<v Speaker 2>children with autism and special needs knows her name because

811
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:56.320
<v Speaker 2>she has done an incredible podcast which has bumped Joe

812
00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Rogan out of the top spot in recent months. That's

813
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:02.440
<v Speaker 2>how incredible she is as a director and film maker.

814
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:04.519
<v Speaker 2>And she's doing a film with that now. So she

815
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:08.679
<v Speaker 2>is our director, and this is happening, and it's you know,

816
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:12.239
<v Speaker 2>it's bringing all of these voices into one space again.

817
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:16.599
<v Speaker 2>That is, you know, that's facilitating all of this.

818
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:20.920
<v Speaker 1>I think that's amazing. Now. I know you have the foundation,

819
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:25.360
<v Speaker 1>but I know you're working towards an app, so it

820
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:26.159
<v Speaker 1>talk to me about it.

821
00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, again, because of my work and growing up

822
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:35.679
<v Speaker 2>in Connecticut, when I launched last year, I reached a

823
00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:39.159
<v Speaker 2>lot of people and again, somebody I knew from high

824
00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:42.920
<v Speaker 2>school reached out and called me and said that saw

825
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:44.400
<v Speaker 2>what I was doing and that he had had a

826
00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:49.159
<v Speaker 2>prototype for an app in this arena and it's called

827
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.440
<v Speaker 2>safety Net and it's built out and we got on

828
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:56.679
<v Speaker 2>a zoom and he showed me, he gave me. We

829
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.679
<v Speaker 2>did a walk through of the app, and I was

830
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:02.320
<v Speaker 2>in tears because he had built this because of a

831
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:05.440
<v Speaker 2>situation and a murder that had taken place in Connecticut.

832
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:14.960
<v Speaker 2>And essentially it will change the face of what victims

833
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:18.079
<v Speaker 2>of abuse, what it will look like with an app

834
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:23.760
<v Speaker 2>because they will be able to upload information and photos

835
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.800
<v Speaker 2>and text messages and information so that it's a pattern

836
00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:32.159
<v Speaker 2>of abuse that will have safe place with other people

837
00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:39.199
<v Speaker 2>and other spaces, let's just say. And the most important

838
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:41.039
<v Speaker 2>part about this app is that it will have real

839
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:46.599
<v Speaker 2>time data that goes out to police stations or FBI

840
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:50.519
<v Speaker 2>or other entities, which we don't have now. And the

841
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 2>most incredible moment we had with this is and again

842
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:57.599
<v Speaker 2>we need funding to get this off the ground. But

843
00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:02.280
<v Speaker 2>I was watching the trailer for Gabby Patito story on

844
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.679
<v Speaker 2>Netflix about three months ago, and I was watching the

845
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:08.360
<v Speaker 2>trailer before I came out, and her mother was on

846
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:13.039
<v Speaker 2>saying we couldn't find I didn't know where my daughter was.

847
00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:17.840
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't find her. And you know, if only I'd

848
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:18.559
<v Speaker 2>know where she was.

849
00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:19.760
<v Speaker 1>And I.

850
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.159
<v Speaker 2>Sat there after watching this and I called Matt and

851
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:29.119
<v Speaker 2>I sho who developed it, developed this, and I was

852
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:31.719
<v Speaker 2>in tears. I said, Oh my god, could you imagine

853
00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:35.119
<v Speaker 2>if Gabby Patito had this app, her mother would have

854
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.960
<v Speaker 2>been able to find her. There would have been records

855
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:41.840
<v Speaker 2>about what it transpired. And this was part of my

856
00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:48.920
<v Speaker 2>shift about the term domestic abuse, because I said, this

857
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:53.880
<v Speaker 2>app needs to go out to every young person who's dating,

858
00:51:54.920 --> 00:52:00.159
<v Speaker 2>and every dating app, because if you have a gut feeling,

859
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:02.400
<v Speaker 2>if you're going out with someone, we've heard of someone

860
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:05.480
<v Speaker 2>going on a date and they get rape or something happens.

861
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:11.239
<v Speaker 2>If you are linked to this app safety net, all

862
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:14.320
<v Speaker 2>of your information is in there and you can see

863
00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:17.079
<v Speaker 2>a pattern. Or you know, he pulled my arm and

864
00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:20.360
<v Speaker 2>it didn't feel comfortable. He wrote me this terrible message.

865
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:21.880
<v Speaker 2>It's all in there. Oh.

866
00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:23.320
<v Speaker 1>If he's just going on a data and you just

867
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:25.000
<v Speaker 1>it's blind DAT and you say, you know what, guys,

868
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:26.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm going on this blind date. I don't know what

869
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:29.239
<v Speaker 1>to expect because you could get roofinge, you don't know

870
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:31.199
<v Speaker 1>what would you do? Show?

871
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god?

872
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:33.519
<v Speaker 1>So all the time, you know, I mean I know,

873
00:52:33.639 --> 00:52:36.480
<v Speaker 1>I know it's actors, but still I'm like riveted by

874
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:37.119
<v Speaker 1>it every day.

875
00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:40.440
<v Speaker 2>So all of this is really it is bringing all

876
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:44.760
<v Speaker 2>of this into one space. That brings all of these people, right,

877
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:49.239
<v Speaker 2>mostly women and children, into one space. And that is

878
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:53.039
<v Speaker 2>the most important thing because I've said we're fragmented, and

879
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:55.280
<v Speaker 2>when you're dealing with this on your own and you

880
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:58.639
<v Speaker 2>don't know what's happening, you are alone and no one,

881
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.639
<v Speaker 2>no one should feel alone.

882
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Now, oh my god, I'm gonna change the town a

883
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:06.360
<v Speaker 1>little bit and we're gonna have a little fun. Okay,

884
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:10.519
<v Speaker 1>So let's uh brighten up this and let's ask what

885
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:12.880
<v Speaker 1>is your favorite a sunrise or a sunset?

886
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:18.559
<v Speaker 2>Sunset? Because I'm a night out so that's when your

887
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:21.960
<v Speaker 2>day starts sunrise very often.

888
00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:27.960
<v Speaker 1>That's funny. What song snaps you back to strength every time?

889
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh? It's my song I blast on my car radio

890
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:35.519
<v Speaker 2>with my windows down when I'm headed to courd Titanium.

891
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's a great song. Yeah, it gets the fire

892
00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:43.360
<v Speaker 1>flowing all right. What about a favorite wall arc quote?

893
00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:45.559
<v Speaker 1>Like hanging in your office. You have a favorite quote?

894
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:53.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, you know it's probably roomy. You know, there

895
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:58.039
<v Speaker 2>are several different takes on it. But you know, when

896
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:00.480
<v Speaker 2>you're in the dark, look for the light. Look for

897
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:02.599
<v Speaker 2>the crack, because that's where the light comes in.

898
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's beautiful.

899
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:06.920
<v Speaker 2>And I feel that very often. You always look for

900
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:08.760
<v Speaker 2>the light. You always have to have hope.

901
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:13.519
<v Speaker 1>If you could borrow a superhero power for one day,

902
00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:15.760
<v Speaker 1>what would it.

903
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:22.039
<v Speaker 2>Be, Well, immediately go to Wonder Woman, the truth rope,

904
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:26.599
<v Speaker 2>the rope, it would be No. I actually remember that

905
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Wonder Woman could make everybody freeze in time. Oh yeah,

906
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:33.000
<v Speaker 2>so you could freeze everybody in time except one person

907
00:54:33.039 --> 00:54:36.960
<v Speaker 2>that you're talking to, So you could orchestrate the next

908
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:38.239
<v Speaker 2>thing that happens in the room.

909
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:43.480
<v Speaker 1>That's it, and the last thing that made you laugh

910
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:44.800
<v Speaker 1>till your sides hurt.

911
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:48.000
<v Speaker 2>What do you think, Oh, you know, I'd have to

912
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:52.840
<v Speaker 2>say probably my best friends in the whole world. They're

913
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:58.000
<v Speaker 2>my three sisters really since high school. And when we

914
00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:00.840
<v Speaker 2>get together, which we did a couple couple of weeks ago,

915
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:04.400
<v Speaker 2>there is nothing that stops the laughter. It takes me

916
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:06.880
<v Speaker 2>back to that time. It's the safest space in the

917
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:13.360
<v Speaker 2>world and there's nothing that stops us from laughing for

918
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.559
<v Speaker 2>for several minutes, if not longer.

919
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:20.840
<v Speaker 1>That's great. So for our listeners who are still trapped, yes,

920
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:31.320
<v Speaker 1>hearing your voice through hidden earbuds? What step one toward freedom? Wow?

921
00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:37.840
<v Speaker 2>You know it's like I've said, you know, knowledge is power.

922
00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:43.239
<v Speaker 2>So step one is reaching out and connecting with anybody,

923
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:46.840
<v Speaker 2>a support group, an advocate. I know it's hard to

924
00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:49.079
<v Speaker 2>find everyone to Rock the Walls is up and running,

925
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:51.159
<v Speaker 2>but we are out there and so if somebody is

926
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:54.440
<v Speaker 2>listening to this, you can find us online. All of

927
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:58.800
<v Speaker 2>the partners and the people that I'm connected with from

928
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:04.159
<v Speaker 2>doctor Christine Coachola and Amy Palaco and doctor Nadine, these

929
00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:08.920
<v Speaker 2>are brilliant people and their communities on their posts and

930
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:13.559
<v Speaker 2>on their websites and pages are incredibly powerful and helpful.

931
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:16.440
<v Speaker 2>And that in each state and each that there are

932
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:19.159
<v Speaker 2>people coming together and you have to have support and community.

933
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:22.960
<v Speaker 1>How can our audience amplify your mission today? Like, is

934
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:27.079
<v Speaker 1>there a phone call, a donation, a social share? What

935
00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:29.639
<v Speaker 1>what moves can they can they help? Yeah?

936
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:34.239
<v Speaker 2>Definitely a donation and very specifically we're just finishing setting

937
00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:37.000
<v Speaker 2>this up right now, but it's on my website for

938
00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:41.119
<v Speaker 2>our film, for our app for Rock the Walls, because

939
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:45.000
<v Speaker 2>we're going to be building out our court watching and

940
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:48.159
<v Speaker 2>our other connecting programs in the coming couple of months.

941
00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:50.760
<v Speaker 2>But the film is ready to take donations, and our

942
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:54.760
<v Speaker 2>safety net app is ready and connecting and sharing.

943
00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:56.039
<v Speaker 1>What is your website?

944
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:58.199
<v Speaker 2>Tell Tell Rockthwalls dot org.

945
00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:03.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, now finish this sentence. Survival is not

946
00:57:03.159 --> 00:57:04.320
<v Speaker 1>the end of my story.

947
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:10.119
<v Speaker 2>It's it's the beginning of a new chapter of my

948
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:16.960
<v Speaker 2>life and my children. And I do believe that God

949
00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:20.360
<v Speaker 2>brought me here for some reason to be able to

950
00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:24.440
<v Speaker 2>help others. With all those out there who are already

951
00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:25.320
<v Speaker 2>doing this great work.

952
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh my God, I got you.

953
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:29.960
<v Speaker 2>I really because there is no other reason. And so

954
00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:32.519
<v Speaker 2>for people going through any type of trauma, there has

955
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:35.519
<v Speaker 2>to be a You have to just look at it

956
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:38.679
<v Speaker 2>that there is a reason for it.

957
00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:41.440
<v Speaker 1>I know, and I say it all the time. You know,

958
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:43.760
<v Speaker 1>some of us have our scars on the outside, some

959
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:46.719
<v Speaker 1>of us wear our scars on the inside. We all

960
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:48.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, that's why we do this. That's why I

961
00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:51.280
<v Speaker 1>have this platform, so we can talk and let people

962
00:57:51.320 --> 00:57:54.199
<v Speaker 1>know they're not alone. I mean, as you know, I

963
00:57:54.280 --> 00:57:57.480
<v Speaker 1>lost my son to suicide four years ago, and I

964
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:00.760
<v Speaker 1>try and close every show with one of his poems,

965
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:05.280
<v Speaker 1>and this week I've got one that was one of

966
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:09.559
<v Speaker 1>the first poems he wrote when it was like Mother's

967
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:13.280
<v Speaker 1>Day and I had been seeing little glimpses of his poems,

968
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:16.159
<v Speaker 1>and he put together this little booklet of all his poems.

969
00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:19.360
<v Speaker 1>He stapled it and he put in the cover of

970
00:58:19.400 --> 00:58:23.119
<v Speaker 1>it he goes my eight Reasons Why. This poem is

971
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:25.559
<v Speaker 1>dedicated to my mom, who is the best mom in

972
00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:29.519
<v Speaker 1>the world. By Scott Dansker. You are my world. You

973
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:33.239
<v Speaker 1>are my life, You are my reason why. You are

974
00:58:33.239 --> 00:58:37.360
<v Speaker 1>my love, you are my pride, you are the reason why.

975
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:41.639
<v Speaker 1>You are my thoughts, you are my lies, you are

976
00:58:41.639 --> 00:58:45.960
<v Speaker 1>the reason why. You are my queen. You are my lives,

977
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:49.880
<v Speaker 1>you are the reason why. You are my reasons why.

978
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:56.840
<v Speaker 1>And nothing will change my eight reasons Why. Well, he

979
00:58:56.920 --> 00:58:59.199
<v Speaker 1>was fifteen when he wrote this stuff, and I still

980
00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:02.639
<v Speaker 1>cry today when I them. I tell you, it's just crazy.

981
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:04.440
<v Speaker 2>But wow, oh my gosh.

982
00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, Lisa any Cush reminds us that one brave

983
00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:19.000
<v Speaker 1>voice can echo through the legislative courts, and she is

984
00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:23.840
<v Speaker 1>so brave and so strong. Please help her support the

985
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:27.519
<v Speaker 1>cause that so many women find themselves going through I

986
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:30.719
<v Speaker 1>mean men as well. But it's it's so important that

987
00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:33.079
<v Speaker 1>we shed a light on this, just like we're shedding

988
00:59:33.079 --> 00:59:36.920
<v Speaker 1>a light on mental health. This, this is really so important.

989
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:40.079
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Serena, Oh my god, thank you for joining

990
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:43.840
<v Speaker 1>us today. And you know, until next Sunday, keep spreading

991
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the light, keep shining the love. And if you enjoy

992
00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:52.119
<v Speaker 1>today's show, please like us, share us if you want

993
00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:55.280
<v Speaker 1>to support me and donate, that is always welcome as well,

994
00:59:56.039 --> 01:00:01.559
<v Speaker 1>and remembers soos stories of survivors is where sparks the soul.

995
01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, thank you,