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Speaker 1: Today we're plunging into well, one of the most persistent

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and frankly wild narratives out there in the secret space program.

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Speaker 2: World Project Pegasus.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, Project Pegasus, and these truly astonishing claims from Andrew

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Bassiago about time travel. Just picture this for a second.

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You're six years old. Suddenly you're not in your own

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time anymore. You're transported over one hundred years into the past.

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You find yourself standing in this muddy field, soldiers around civilians,

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and you're about to witness one of history's most iconic

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speeches firsthand.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like science fiction, doesn't it. But this is

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just one piece of a much bigger puzzle. We're looking

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at today. Claims of a secret government program making this possible,

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not just for one kid, but supposedly for many, sending

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them through time even believe it or not, to other planets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot. So our mission today is to

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really take a deep dive into this whole collection of accounts, reports, investigations, yeah,

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all detailing this alleged gleandestine project supposedly.

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Speaker 2: Born out of this desperate technological race, right, We're going

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to explore its alleged origins. These startling experiments they supposedly.

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Speaker 1: Ran, and the totally mind bending claims from the people

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who say they were part of it.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and crucially, we need to critically examine the evidence

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or lack thereof, and the counter arguments presented in the

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sources we've looked at.

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Speaker 1: Right, The goal here is to help you navigate these

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frankly astonishing claims and try to figure out what, if anything,

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actually stands up to scrutiny.

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Speaker 2: So where do we start? Not in some high tech lab,

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funnily enough.

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Speaker 1: No, we start in a hotel room, New York City,

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nineteen forty three.

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Speaker 2: That's right, January seventh, nineteen forty three, Nicola Tesla. I

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mean everyone knows the name visionary, inventor genius.

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Speaker 1: Size alone, Room three three, twenty seven, New Yorker hotel.

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Speaker 2: And what happens next is key to this whole narrative.

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Within hours of his death, government agents FBI reportedly they

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seal the room.

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Speaker 1: They confiscate everything. Yeah, eighty boxes apparently packed with his ideas,

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his inventions, decades of research gone.

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Speaker 2: There's the twist, or the claimed twist, when Tesla's belongings

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were supposedly returned to his family later twenty of those

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boxes were allegedly.

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Speaker 1: Missing, vanished, and adding fuel to that fire. The f

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mits to this day admits it holds classified Tesla documents

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they won't release.

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Speaker 2: So the theory goes, these missing files may be containing

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revolutionary tech. They supposedly became the seed for dozens of

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black projects over the next fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: We're talking weather modification, directed energy, even mind control tech. Yeah,

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all supposedly stemming from these lost Tesla papers.

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Speaker 2: Now, let's layer in the historical context mid century America, right,

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there was this feeling of technological superiority. We had the bomb,

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the transistor.

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Speaker 1: We thought we were unbeatable scientifically speaking.

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Speaker 2: Until nineteen fifty seven October.

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Speaker 1: Fourth Sputnik, that little metal ball circling the Earth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the size of a beach ball, launched by the Soviets.

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The shock, the humiliation here in the US, it was.

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Speaker 1: Immense because if they could put that in orbit, they could.

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Speaker 2: Put a nuclear warhead anywhere on Earth. That was the fear,

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a very real fear.

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Speaker 1: President Eisenhower didn't waste any time.

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Speaker 2: Nope, swift response. He creates ARPA Advanced Research Projects Agency

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later becomes DARPA, and their job simple mandate prevent any

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more technological surprises like Sputneck stay ahead of the Soviets

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no matter the cost, and the funding was essentially unlimited.

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Speaker 1: A blank check. But even with all that money and

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brain power, the US was still apparently losing the space race.

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Speaker 2: By the early sixties, the Saturn rocket program, the one

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meant to get us to the Moon, was years behind schedule.

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In sixty three, desperation starts creeping in, and.

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Speaker 1: This is where the story loves back to Tesla. The

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claim is that DARPA scientists, looking for an edge, any edge,

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started digging deep into those confiscated files, again.

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Speaker 2: Hoping for some forgotten genius, some breakthrough, and according to

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these accounts, in nineteen sixty eight, they hit the jackpot.

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Speaker 1: They supposedly found plans for a teleportation device based on Tesla's.

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Speaker 2: Which leads us straight into Project Pegasus and the supposed

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location for all this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, get this the basement of the Curtis Right building

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in Woodridge, New Jersey. But not just any basement.

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Speaker 2: Level, no, apparently one floor deeper than any of the

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official blueprints showed a hidden sub basement.

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Speaker 1: So picture this space, windowless concrete room, buzzing fluorescent lights.

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Maybe that weird smell of ozone and burnt metal they describe.

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Speaker 2: Huh huh. And the device itself not some massive, complex

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machine like you'd imagine.

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Speaker 1: No, apparently, just two gray metal pillars eight feet tall,

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standing about ten feet apart, copper coils connecting them.

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Speaker 2: That's it deceptively simple looking. But the claim about how

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it worked is, well, it's out there.

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Speaker 1: It didn't plug into the main power grid, right right.

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Speaker 2: The story is it tapped into Tesla's theorized zero point energy,

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this idea that empty space isn't empty at all, but

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teeming with this boundless energy.

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Speaker 1: Mainstream physics acknowledges zero point energy as a theoretical concept,

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but harnessing it like this that's pure speculation or you know,

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fringe theory.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, but in this narrative it's the power source. They

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claimed there was enough energy in an empty coffee cup

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to boil all the Earth's oceans. The device supposedly tap that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get to the tests. March twelve, nineteen

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sixty eight, the alleged first activation.

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Speaker 2: The team doctor Harold Agnew, doctor Sterling Colgate, three technicians.

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They fire it.

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Speaker 1: Up at first nothing, then this deep vibration starts in

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the pillars, you can feel it in your chest.

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Speaker 2: Supposedly, and the air between the pillars starts shimmering like

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heat haze off a road. But here's the weird part.

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Speaker 1: Temperature drops like significantly sixty degrees fahrenheit down to forty

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ice starts forming on the concrete wall.

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Speaker 2: ColdFusion, no, something else entirely, And then the pencil experiment.

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Speaker 1: Right, Doctor Colgate supposedly tosses a regular pencil between.

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Speaker 2: The pillars and it just vanishes.

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Speaker 1: Gone. A few seconds later, it drops from the ceiling, but.

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Speaker 2: It's changed, massively changed. The yellopaint is now dark brown,

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the metal band is corroded, the wood is cracked brittle,

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like it aged decades in just seconds.

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Speaker 1: Which naturally leads to the terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Question what would it do to a person?

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Speaker 1: And apparently they decided to find out. The volunteers were

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young military physicists.

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Speaker 2: Seemed simple enough on paper, Step between the pillars, enter

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the energy field, pop out at the destination.

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Speaker 1: First destination Sandia National Labs, New Mexico, eighteen hundred miles away.

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Speaker 2: Lieutenant Morrison, twenty six years old, steps in, vanishes, never arrives.

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He just ceased to exist. According to the.

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Speaker 1: Account, God, oh my god. Okay, so volunteer number.

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Speaker 2: Two, Lieutenant Farley, thirty one, He does make it to

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New Mexico, but the transfer took thirty.

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Speaker 1: Seconds, and in those thirty seconds.

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Speaker 2: He aged thirty years, appeared with white hair, papery skin, collapsed,

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and died essentially of old age.

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Speaker 1: Right there, This is horrific. So they recalibrated, right, tried

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something closer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, third test destination just one floor up, ten feet away.

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Local jump Lieutenant Hutchkins steps.

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Speaker 1: Through and the result even worse, somehow.

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Speaker 2: Unbelievably worse. He arrived in pieces, but not physically ripped apart,

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separated in time.

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Speaker 1: What does it even mean?

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Speaker 2: His legs materialize first, then maybe thirty seconds later, his

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torso appeared, his arms minutes after that. His heart arrived

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before his lungs could function with it, Brain signals going

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to limbs that weren't there yet were already gone. Medics

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could do nothing.

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Speaker 1: Just unthinkable.

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Speaker 2: Out of the first fifteen volunteers, the story goes, only

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three survived the initial tests, and all three went completely insane.

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Speaker 1: Like Private Anderson nineteen years old.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he came back physically okay, but just screaming, screaming

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about the space between someplace where time moved sideways, where

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he felt himself dying and being born over and over.

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He apparently never spoke a coherent word again.

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Speaker 1: So faced with his utter catastrophe, what did they do?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Agnew, analyzing the failures, supposedly saw a pattern. The

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younger the subject, the less year the negative effects. Morrison

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was twenty six, Farley thirty one, Anderson only nineteen.

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Speaker 1: So the theory became.

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Speaker 2: Adult consciousness was too rigid, too formed. It shattered under

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the temporal stress, but children's minds still developing more plastic.

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Speaker 1: They thought children could bend without breaking.

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Speaker 2: That seems to be the horrifying logic presented in these accounts,

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which leads to the next ethical nightmare.

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Speaker 1: A DARPA contractor, Raymond Bossiago, who was reportedly involved from the.

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Speaker 2: Start, volunteers his own son, Andrew Bosiago, six years old.

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Speaker 1: Despite you'd hope massive reservations, the military allegedly decided this

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was the way forward. They needed subjects, and adults weren't

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volunteering after what happened.

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Speaker 2: So they turned to children, which brings us to Andrew

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Bossiaga's alleged first major mission.

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Speaker 1: Gettysburg, Yeah, Nomber nineteenth, eighteen sixty three, the day of

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Lincoln's address.

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Speaker 2: He claims he'd done a few shorter jumps before Santa

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fe As grandparents' house in Ohio, kind of practice runs,

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but this was the big one.

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Speaker 1: He described state into this vortal.

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Speaker 2: Tunnel, Yeah, his term vortex plus portal, presumably, And then

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suddenly his feet are in cold, squishy mud.

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Speaker 1: He's wearing this itchy oversized Union soldier's uniform, smells like

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old wool manure smoke.

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Speaker 2: Pushing through this crowd of dirty, tired looking soldiers and civilians.

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The ground is all churned up, rusty colored mud from

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the battle that just happened there.

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Speaker 1: And he makes his way to the platform, uh, and

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sees him Abraham Lincoln, tall, tired, shoulder.

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Speaker 2: Slumped, and Lincoln starts speaking the Gettysburg address and the

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six year old kid is supposedly standing there one hundred

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and five years in the past.

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Speaker 1: And then he says, there's a flash a camera, someone

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took a picture.

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Speaker 2: This reported success Andrew's a parent. Ability to handle the

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jump allegedly kicked the program into high gear.

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Speaker 1: Darpest starts recruiting more kids.

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Speaker 2: Through defense contractors military families looking for specific traits high intelligence,

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physical resilience, and this undefined quality they called temporal flexibility

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mines that could adapt.

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Speaker 1: The training sounds, intense physical stuff, meditation, memorizing historical layouts,

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learning how to blend.

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Speaker 2: In and get this for dangerous missions. These kids, the cronats,

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as they were supposedly called, were given cyanide.

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Speaker 1: Capsules cyanide for children.

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Speaker 2: That's the claim, utterly chilling if true. Around one hundred

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and forty kids supposedly made it through training, formed into

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teams for different era.

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Speaker 1: And Baciago says he went back to Gatysburg multiple times yes.

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Speaker 2: And on his fourth trip, he claims he saw himself,

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a younger version from an earlier jump, standing in the

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same spot, wearing the same uniform. He saw his past self,

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he claims he did, said the younger Andrew looked terrified,

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and he the older Andrew watching, felt like reality itself

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was incredibly fragile at that moment.

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Speaker 1: Wow and other cronots reported weird stuff too.

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Speaker 2: Apparently, a girl named Sarah supposedly met three versions of

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herself at Pearl Murder. Another kid, Mark claimed he saw

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himself die at the Battle of Antietam, but then somehow

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changed the past to survive, which led them to conclude

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that Tesla's tech wasn't just time travel, it was accessing

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the multiverse, different timelines, different realities.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is already incredibly hard to wrap your head around.

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But the story doesn't stop there, does it. It goes interplanetary.

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Speaker 2: It does. By nineteen eighty, the claim is Project Pegasus

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was upgraded. Now it could bend space as well as

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time space travel.

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Speaker 1: This wasn't just Darba anymore, right. A joint venture Ralph M.

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Speaker 2: Parson's company, Lockheed skunk Works, Hughes Aircraft, the CIA all

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supposedly involved in this new phase.

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Speaker 1: And the new facility, the jump rope.

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Speaker 2: Hidden in plain sight supposedly nine to ninety nine North

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Suplvida Boulevard, El Sagondo, California, look like a normal office building.

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Speaker 1: But inside there was this elevator.

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Speaker 2: With a secret button. Sequence you press it, the elevator

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wall supposedly dissolve and boom. You're not just going up

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a floor, You're somewhere else entirely like Mars. Like Mars.

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Andrew Basciago claims he made his first jump there when

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he was.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen required more training.

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Speaker 2: I assume, oh yeah, three weeks of ten survival training

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college of the Siskius, apparently learning about thin atmospheres, extreme temperatures,

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using some kind of handheld weapons, stun heat kill settings.

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Speaker 1: And the survival odds weren't great.

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Speaker 2: According to the instrictors. Bosiago quotes Stark, of ninety seven

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thousand people supposedly sent to Mars over the years, only

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seven thousand were said to have lived longer than a

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five years.

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Speaker 1: So what did Bosiago say Mars was like?

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Speaker 2: Not the NASA version, definitely not. He claimed there were

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places with breathable air, indigenous life, what kind of life?

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He described, things like pleasosaurs, those long necked marine reptiles.

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Somehow on Mars tarantula is the size of cars and tall,

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thin humanoid beings with large heads and black eyes, and.

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Speaker 1: The mission goal why send teenagers to face car sized tarantulis.

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Speaker 2: The Soviets there established contact with this alleged Martian civilization,

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cold Gorgo's interplanetary.

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Speaker 1: And Basiago claims he wasn't alone on these Mars missions.

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Speaker 2: No, he was part of a team, and he names,

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including most famously a lanky college student from Columbia University

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named Barry Setro.

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Speaker 1: Who the world now knows as Barack Obama. Okay, that

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claim is extraordinary, to put it mildly, Is there any

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corroboration for this Mars stuff?

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Speaker 2: Well, Bossiago isn't the only claimant. Two others, William Stillings

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and Bernard Mendez, independently came forward. They also claimed to

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be part of this Mars program.

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Speaker 1: And they confirmed the details the training, the jump room,

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the alien I.

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Speaker 2: Reportedly confirmed those elements. Yes, and crucially, both Stillings and

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Mendez also stated independently that Barry Obama was part of

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their Mars training group.

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Speaker 1: Three people claiming Obama was secretly teleporting to Mars as

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a college student. It's a lot to take.

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Speaker 2: In, it absolutely is. But perhaps the strangest piece of

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alleged corroboration didn't come from another supposed participant. It came

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from Art Bell, the.

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Speaker 1: Late night paranormal radio legend Coast to Coast.

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Speaker 2: Am exactly king of that world, known for being open

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minded but also a sharp interviewer, Bossiago on his show

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multiple times, and.

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Speaker 1: On one show, Bossy Igo teased a big reveal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he called it a quantum bomb show, said it

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would prove his story.

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Speaker 1: What was it?

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Speaker 2: He dropped this seemingly minor detail. He said, on November

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fifth of nineteen seventy one, we participated in an advanced

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kronizer probe from ITT Defense Communications in Nutley, New Jersey,

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a kronaser being some kind of time viewing tech.

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Speaker 1: In his narrative Itt Defense Communications, Nutley, New Jersey, November

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nineteen seventy one.

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Speaker 2: The radio went silent for a beat. Then art Bell

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comes back on and his voice is apparently thick with emotion.

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Speaker 1: What did he say?

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Speaker 2: He confesses live on air that he Art Bell had

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worked for ITT in Nutley, New Jersey around that exact

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time as a technician checking waveguide equipment for a secret

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government project. He knew nothing about.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's specific a direct, unprompted hit on a really

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obscure detail.

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Speaker 2: It seemed incredibly powerful at the time. A spontaneous confirmation

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from an unexpected source.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we have these anecdotal accounts, the Art Bell moment.

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What about physical evidence? Basiago mentioned that photo from Gettysburg.

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Speaker 2: Right, the Lincoln photo. For almost a century, historians looked

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for a confirmed photo of Lincoln actually at the Gettysburg

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address ceremony found.

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Speaker 1: Nothing until nineteen fifty two.

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Speaker 2: An archivist Josephine Cobb is going through Civil War glass

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plate negatives at the National Archives and she finds it.

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Lincoln on the platform, faintly visible in a crowd shot,

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huge historical fine would she notes something else? Yes, Down

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on the foreground, off to the side, there's a small boy,

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maybe six or seven years old, dressed in a Union

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bugle boy type uniform.

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Speaker 1: Okay, maybe not that unusual for the time. Kids did

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wear military style sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps, but this kid was alone, no parent in sight,

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looked kind of lost, and there are anomalies like what

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his haircut. Historians noted it looked very modern, like a

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nineteen seventies cut, not eighteen sixty three. And his shoes

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they were clearly adult sized shoes, way too big for him.

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Speaker 1: Oversized shoes, modern haircut alone Gettysburg.

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Speaker 2: And Andrew Baciago claims, that's me, that six year old

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me on my first mission.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we've laid out this incredible, sprawling story teleportation,

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time travel cornernot children, Mars, colonies, Obama art Bell the photo.

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Now we need to do what we set out to do.

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Deconstruct it.

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Speaker 2: Right, let's separate verifiable fact from well from the claims.

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There are elements grounded in reality.

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Speaker 1: Here, like Tesla's files being confiscated.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that happened, the government took them in nineteen forty three,

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and yes, some FBI files on Tesla remained classified. That's documented.

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Speaker 1: We also know the government did research things like remote feeling.

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Project Stargate is.

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Speaker 2: Real, and top remote viewers like Joe McMoneagle did claim

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to see things like ancient Martian civilizations. That's on record.

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Speaker 1: And tragically, we also know the US military and CIA

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did conduct horrific, unethical experiments on unwitting subjects, including children

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like an mk ultra testing drugs, psychological manipulation. That's documented history.

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Speaker 2: So the idea of secret projects, the government, secrecy, even

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unethical experimentation, that's not the unbelievable part.

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Speaker 1: No, the unbelievable part starts with the science they claim

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was used.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. The physics as described in these accounts just doesn't

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align with known science at all.

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Speaker 1: Tesla's radiant energy work was aimed at wireless power transmission, right,

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not teleportation.

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Speaker 2: Correct, and teleporting a human we've achieved quantum teleportation for

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tiny particles, sure, but a whole person, the energy required

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would be astronomical, more than an exploding star.

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Speaker 1: So the idea they just plug this machine into a wall.

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Speaker 2: Socket is physically impossible based on everything we understand. It's

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orders of magnitude beyond comprehension, let alone a standard power outlet.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the movement problem.

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Speaker 2: The cosmic positioning. Yeah, Earth spins it orbits the Sun.

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The Sun orbits the galactic center. The galaxy is moving.

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If you jump through time even a few seconds without

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calculating all of that motion perfectly, you.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't land back on Earth materialize in empty space miles

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away precisely.

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Speaker 2: The calculations required would be unbelievably complex, assuming it's even possible.

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And the terminology they use a made up word and

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phrases like quantum displacement, quantum holographic destabilization. They sound science y,

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but physicists say they're basically meaningless jargons strung together.

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Speaker 1: What about the cronavisor that sounds like something specific.

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Speaker 2: It is, but the concept actually originated much earlier, with

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an Italian Benedictine monk named Pellegrino or Netti in the

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nineteen fifties, he claimed he built a device to see

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the past and watched Roman plays in Christ's Crucifixion.

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Speaker 1: And was that claim ever verified.

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Speaker 2: No, it was pretty thoroughly debunked as a hoax. So

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Bossiago using that term links back to an already discredited idea.

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Speaker 1: Okay, beyond the science, what about inconsistencies within Bosiago's own story?

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Speaker 2: There are quite a few pointed out by critics. He

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claims Donald Rumsfeld rand Project Pegasus from nineteen sixty nine

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to nineteen seventy two.

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Speaker 1: Szfeld's documented career.

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Speaker 2: Shows him working in domestic policy, then heading the Office

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of Economic Opportunity, later ambassador to NATO, nowhere near Darpou

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or running secret teleportation projects. It just doesn't match the historical.

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Speaker 1: Record and the Art Bell confirmation that seems so powerful.

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Speaker 2: It did, but the catches. Art Bell had actually written

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about his time working at ITT in Nutley, New Jersey

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in his nineteen ninety eight autobiography The Art of Talk.

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Speaker 1: Ah, so that information was already public knowledge before Bossiago

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revealed it on the show.

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Speaker 2: Correct, it means Bossiago could have simply read Bell's book

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and incorporated that detail to create that bombshell moment, It

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doesn't necessarily mean he had inside.

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Speaker 1: Knowledge, and his story is apparently shifted over time.

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Speaker 2: Critics point to changes in details across different interviews and writings.

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The year he was recruited, exactly how many trips to Gettysburg,

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the number of kids involved, specific dates for the Mars jumps.

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These kinds of inconsistencies raise red flags.

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Speaker 1: And the Mars story itself. There's a weird timeline issue

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there too, isn't there? Yes.

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Speaker 2: In two thousand and eight, Andrew Basiago published a lengthy

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paper titled The Discovery of Life on Mars. But his

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evidence wasn't his alleged personal experience.

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Speaker 1: What was it?

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Speaker 2: It was based entirely on analyzing NASA rover photos, pointing

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out shapes he interpreted as artifacts and creatures in the

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blurry images.

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Speaker 1: So he wrote a whole paper based.

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Speaker 2: On photos years before he publicly claimed he'd actually been

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to Mars multiple times via a jump room and scene

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life firsthand.

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Speaker 1: Why would you analyze fuzzy photos if you had eyewitness accounts,

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including your own.

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Speaker 2: That's the logical disconnect. Critics highlight it suggests the jump

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room story might have been added later to bolster their

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earlier claims based on photo analysis.

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Speaker 1: It all seems to fit a broader pattern you sometimes

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see in these narratives, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: It shares similarities with other secret space program whistleblower accounts

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often claimant's allege involvement in multiple fantastic programs, time travel,

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alien wars, advanced tech.

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Speaker 1: And there's often the element of memory suppression or recovery.

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Speaker 2: When inconsistencies are pointed out, a common explanation is that

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memories were wiped or suppressed and are only now slowly returning,

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which makes the claims difficult to definitively disprove.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, there's often a monetization aspect.

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Speaker 2: Many of these individuals build careers around their stories, paid

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speaking gigs, workshops, books, podcasts. They sometimes even claim intellectual

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property rights over concepts like the Dark Fleet or specific narratives,

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treating their alleged experiences as marketable assets.

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Speaker 1: Which inevitably makes you question the motives. But putting aside

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the inconsistencies and potential motives, why do these stories resonate

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so strongly with people? What's the appeal?

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Speaker 2: I think it taps into something incredibly deep and universal

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in the human psyche. It's the desire for a second.

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Speaker 1: Chance, isn't it the ultimate do over?

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Speaker 2: Exactly? We all have regrets, mistakes made, words said and anger,

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opportunities missed, people we've lost, who wouldn't want to go

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back and fix something, save someone, say goodbye properly.

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Speaker 1: Time travel stories offer that fantasy that maybe, just maybe

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the rigid rules of time aren't so rigid after all,

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there's a loophole.

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Speaker 2: It's a powerful hope. But the reality is regret lives

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in the past. It's a memory and dwelling on it,

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wishing things were different.

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Speaker 1: It just steals the joy from today, doesn't it, and

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dims the potential for the future.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, The real second chance isn't about rewriting history in

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some secret lab. It's about accepting what happened, learning from it,

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and deciding to move forward differently.

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Speaker 1: Now. Your second chance start the moment you stop looking

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back and decide to focus on today, on what you

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can control.

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Speaker 2: That's the real time machine. We all possess the present moment.

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It holds infinite possibilities, but only if we're actually present

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for it looking forward.

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Speaker 1: So, whether you believe any part of the Project Pegas's story,

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whether these accounts hold up or completely fall apart under scrutiny,

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Their persistence tells us something important about ourselves, that.

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Speaker 2: Deep human yearning to control time, to revisit, to explore

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the ultimate unknown.

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Speaker 1: But maybe the most profound journey isn't through some shimmering

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curtain or vortal tunnel. Maybe it's the journey within, acknowledging

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that the most powerful tool we have for shaping our

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future is right here, right now, the present, offering endless

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possibilities if we just choose to look forward