Speaker 1: We should read our bibles as men dig for bury treasure.
Speaker 2: One of the most high game of the nations their inheritance.
When He divided mankind, he fixed the borders of people's
according to the number of the sons of God.
Speaker 1: In those days and for some time after, giant Nephilites
lived down to the earth. For whenever the sons of
God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children
who became the heroes and famous warriors.
Speaker 3: Of ancient tides.
Speaker 1: Take no part in the fruitless steeds of darkness, but
yet expose that though a thousand fall at your side,
though ten.
Speaker 2: Thousand are dying around you, these years will not touching
lives of garden man. You gotta dig it.
Speaker 4: Hell, old fellow treasure hunters, Welcome to the excavation side.
I'must in alongside and when we got Ben Steve even
in Chad will be your guides on this excursion. Hope
you brought your shovel in your compass, because we got
the map.
Speaker 3: Let's do.
Speaker 2: What's going on, all my local guys and gals and
long distance piles. We're back. Since Steven's covering his mouth
trying not to laugh.
Speaker 5: He he does yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think he just likes to make fun of me, trying
me to choke up.
Speaker 1: That got no words for that.
Speaker 2: Rendering him speechless.
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. I'm proud of that. Yeah, you
solidified it. It's not going away now.
Speaker 1: So how you guys doing well?
Speaker 5: I guess I'm the chicken man, have the meat, getting
the coop and kill nine. I only got five lefts,
but they're actually laying eggs, which is surprising.
Speaker 1: You need more?
Speaker 5: I got a lie, No, I don't need I think good.
Speaker 2: All right, we have you set up inning traps.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I got traps out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I haven't caught it yet though, but they're out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fool me once, right, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a midnight expedition.
Speaker 2: What I mean.
Speaker 5: I think it could be harder than like a code.
Speaker 6: I don't think they.
Speaker 5: Make a meat call.
Speaker 1: I got my own.
Speaker 5: Oh do you I figured making like a little you know,
mint code or well they a little scarf or something
out of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's new with you guys. Nothing just working. Yeah,
twelve hours all week, I hear that. Yeah, good, good money,
but no rest. Yeah. Well well you get me, that's right,
the same thing I got you last year.
Speaker 5: Week. What I need nothing?
Speaker 2: Well, we got another good guest for you guys, and uh,
we're gonna get to that in just a second, but
let's open up in prayer.
Speaker 5: Ben, Dear Lord, thank for today, Thank you for this
reign that we've been needing for a while. Thank you
for everything you do for us. Please give us the
words we need. Speak through us so and reach the
people that you're wanting us to reach.
Speaker 2: Lord and his name Amen. Amen. Well, this guy here,
me and the wife was visiting a nearby church and
Lord seen fit for paths to cross and he spoke
at his church on Christian Worldview and it was just
fascinating to hear him talk. And so after it was
over with that, all walked up to him, was like, Hey,
would you mind do this again on a podcast? And
he's like, why, sure.
Speaker 1: Would you mind if I harass you a little bit?
I asked you by my question.
Speaker 2: Dog man, But but yeah, he said he would, and
me and that this guy has had several conversations and
I've been looking forward this for a long time. But
his names Rick Hasty, Rick Hay.
Speaker 3: You doing, Hey, guys, it's a pleasure to be with
you tonight.
Speaker 2: Well, give give our listeners a little background information. Who
are you? What's your specialties? Passions?
Speaker 3: Oh? My, well, I'm a North Carolinian by birth and
a North Carolina tar Hill by choice. Although we're kind
of a depressed group of people these days after the
athletic efforts of the last eight or ten days.
Speaker 2: But okay, we can relate.
Speaker 1: I'm from Michigan.
Speaker 3: Well you do understand, Oh no, so so uh so anyway,
passion wise, I mean, I became a believer when I
was a teenager and it was a big, big change
for me. And uh, and I think God was good
to me to just have me discipled by a great
young pastor who really poured himself into me for a
few years and gave me a love for his word.
And you know, I got a chance to study languages
early on and uh, and then found out real quickly
that uh, I didn't have much to offer at all
as a pastor. So I decided to that God could
just use me wherever I was. And you know, I'd
love to say it's all been smooth salan, but I'm
not always been faithful to him. But he's always been
faithful to me, and in the midst of that just uh,
you know, I think giving me a passion for knowing
his word more for for certainly seeking out deeper truths,
although I think the deepest truths he's probably reserved for
seeing him face to face one day. But as you
know from our little time together back in that Sunday
morning service, have a real passion around Genesis one, two,
and three and specifically how we can learn from there
who God is. And so I spent a lot of
time in those three chapters, among lots of others, but
that certainly a place have a lot of passion for, justin.
Speaker 2: Well, your talk that you gave was on, you know,
a Christian worldview, and honestly, that's something that I think
as believers we kind of are an autopilot with, you know,
whether we actually exercise it or not. Even when we are,
we don't actually realize and have the forethought while we're
doing it. Could you explain in your opinion what a
Christian worldview is, how it's important, and how you think
we should exercise that as believers.
Speaker 3: Sure that the easiest way to think of a biblical
world view or a Christian worldview is as a bridge
between theology, which we learned from the scriptures. Theology, of course,
is the study of God, and so we learned lots
of theology in the scriptures, but sometimes I'd say we
forget how to apply theology. And that's why I call
our worldview is really a bridge between philosophical things, things
we think we believe, and things we actually do. And
so what ends up happening a lot of times is
that people say they believe things about Christ, things about God,
but then they behave as though they believe totally different things.
And so having the right biblical worldview really enables you
to see the world the way God sees it and
to respond the way God would have us respond.
Speaker 1: I think you're spot on there, and I think a
lot of the problem in general is that you know
as and I think, and I have to preface this,
I always say this. I think church is so important.
I think being fed and being around fellow Christians is
so important. But at the same time, a lot of Christians,
and if you could see me, you might see some
air quotes there, but a lot of Christians when they
leave the church, they leave God at the church. They
don't take him home with them, and that I think
is the biggest problem with the church today. And I
talked a little bit about this on our little page
that we have, but it the the fact of the
matter is when we go back and you look at
what when when when Jesus said Peter was the foundation
of the church, and and he said the church right
singular And now you look at where we are. We're divided.
You know that there's so many different We've taken human uh,
man written doctrines and theology and taken that and gone
away from the words. So you're listening to a man
and not going to the word yourself. I think that
people overlook the biggest gift that we've ever been given,
and that's the Word of God, the Bible in our hand.
We'd rather have somebody spoon feed it to us than
dig into ourselves. And I think that's probably the biggest
problem in the world right now.
Speaker 3: I agree, right yeah, And and of course, uh, you
can sit in church and listen to teaching, but my
hope would be you're listening to good teaching, yes, because
that's not always the case. And uh, and I think
I've heard you guys say on some of your programs
and are really really uh, celebrate your perspective that we
are able to read God's word and learn from it.
And uh. And John tells us that that really we
don't need any teachers, that the Holy Spirit is our teacher.
Now I don't believe that means we don't benefit from
good teaching. Of course we do. But I also believe
that if we're not getting good teaching, where would we.
We don't have any good excuses either, because as you
just said, that the Word is available to us and
God will teach us through his word.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you hit the nail on the
head there. And I think that just once again, that's
something that I can't emphasize enough, is that you can
look around the world and look at different religions and
look at different things, but we we have this gift
right You look at other countries and you can't even
pick up a Bible, and we're given that gift and
we have it right in front of us, and so
many people choose not to use it. And it's right,
not not condemning anyone, not saying that, you know, but
you know what, it's a good time to start if
you haven't yet.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's never too late exactly.
Speaker 2: Which I got this hand out that you had as
a slide on your presentation, and you have what's here.
It'says the foundations for Christian worldview. And I like how
you phrase this as the Christian worldview is the lens
through which we view the world and make decisions about
how we will live. Every worldview is seeking an answer
for truth and meaning. You know, that's one thing that
we say, you know, with the whole supernatural you know lens.
You know, once we start looking into it and reading
it as the Second Temple Jewish people read it and
interpreting it to the time frame to which it was
writting written to, you see it with a whole new
set of glasses. And I think that's the the same
thing here, if you know, once you put your Christian
worldview glasses on, you see things totally different. And I
love it. I'm just gonna hit your little bullet points
here because I like them. It says, sure, man is incomplete,
man is falling, Man is God's image bearer, God is sovereign,
God is creator, God is good, Evil is real, Evil
is deceptive, and evil is defeated. And I really, I
really like that is there anything on that list there
that you'd like to touch on or dive into a
little deeper.
Speaker 3: Well, you're looking at sort of an umbrella image, and
at the peak of that image is that God is Creator.
And as you might recall from my presentation previously, I
really break these into these three key categories that we
need to understand in order to have a solid foundation,
and that is that we need to understand truths about God,
truths about mankind, and truths about evil. And without clarity
in those three areas, then it's going to lead to
us going down paths and our lives that are going
to be very painful and sometimes very harmful to us
and to even those around us. But it also leads
us to have I think, misunderstandings about what it means
to be a Christian. And so there are a lot
of people that I think, frankly don't hold to these
nine points that you just mentioned there, and the result
of that is they also don't often interpret the scriptures properly,
much less things that happen in their daily lives.
Speaker 2: Which one thing that I like to dive into. It's
something that we've talked about a few times, you know,
here and there and kind of round about. Was the
whole theme on image bearing. That's something that I'm been
passionate about. And once I put on those glasses and
started reading it in the Bible, you know, in Genesis one,
you know, it says, let us make man in our image.
You know, I was always brought up you know that
that was the Trinitarian worldview, and me personally was when
I read it, you know, I seen it as it
was the divine counsel, you know, because when it said job,
you know, when he was condemning Job for his questioning,
you know, he said, you know, where were you when
I laid the foundations? And where were you when I
done all these things? And he says, you know, when
the morning stars and the sons of God saying for joy,
So it shows you, you know, that they were there
at creation before us, kind of like an elder brother's thing.
But so, but we were made in his image. And
then it you know, and then when it come amount
of exodus, you know, they were uh it says do
not One of the commandments was do not take the
Lord's name in vain, you know, and a is always
brought up that that's cussing and swearing, and then that
opened up my eyes and I'm like, no, don't be
a hypocrite. You are taking by saying that you are
God's people, you are his image bearers, you're representing him.
So don't don't say you're representing him and live like
the heathen, you know, like all the people surrounding them.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: And I think that your point there is one of
several points that can be made as it relates to
what it means to be an image bearer I and
I would point out by the way that maybe one
of the biggest misunderstandings of what that means is certainly
as you read Genesis one twenty seven there that we
were made in His image, male and female. He made us.
And so as you look at that, and then you
later look at in chapter two at the creation of
Eve out of Atom, if you just look under the
covers a little bit around the Hebrew language that's being used,
is it really recognizes again that it's not male that
bears God's image, it's not female that bears God's image.
It's male and female that bear God's image adequately. And
so that's kind of another item I think to put
on your list there, guys, is that being an image
bearer is reflected perfectly. This carries over into the New
Testament in particular. You know, we can look at at
a variety of passages, certainly Corinthians and in Ephesians, that
God intended the marriage relationship to reflect him, and likewise
he intended it to reflect the relationship between Christ and
the Church. And so that holistic view of his image
comes forth as we see who God is through both
male and female, and especially through the expression of marriage itself.
Speaker 2: And one thing too, was the whole you know, on
earth as it is in heaven, the way they saw
things back then. You know, the temple, you know, was
was created after you know the creation account, you know
what kind of mirrors it. So it's basically when God
created earth, it was his temple. And every temple has
you know, an image and priests, right, so the you know,
they it says that Israel, they would be a nation
of priests. So there you have God's priests. And then
in that same book, you know, he tells you, you know,
make unto yourself no graven image. Well, my opinion is
because the image was already there. It's it's mankind. We're
the image bears, So you don't need an image. The
image is already in the temple. And with that whole worldview,
I think if you actually take the time to look
at that, it really puts a mirror in front of
your face and you're like, how am I living? And
it's people seeing God through me and the actions that
I'm doing, because that's what we're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think you toss in there too, justin
the reality classing is three ten and Sesians for twenty
four pointed out specifically that we're also being made into
His image through Christ. That while we were created in
and perfection and goodness, uh from the very beginning, uh,
and we were now falling, which is of course a
part of this model here, but that now we're being
made complete again in Christ into God's image and and
so we have that promise to look forward to as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like even the Law that was just the
starting point. You know, I can't remember where it was
at in the New Testament, but it said that, uh,
you know, the the Law was a tutor to kind
of show us how to be good image bears until
the up Jesus.
Speaker 1: But also to show us that we were imperfect, because
no one could unhold the law, no one could uphold
that exactly. So we had to see that we were imperfect,
that we needed Jesus because no one can get there
on their own.
Speaker 2: Yep, you know he said you would be as God's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're referring there to Hebrews four, but yeah,
that's right. And so I think that this if you
think about these three let's call them elements within that
concept of how do we understand man from a biblical
worldview perspective, that man is an image bearer man. And remember,
by the way, this whole concept of man being a
word that is only used for the male gender, that's
not the way the scriptures see it. Again, And you
know Genesis one twenty seven and says God made man
male and female. He made them. So just keep in
mind my reference here is to that complete image as
male and female, that we're his image bearer. But we
have part of that image of God that he gave
us was free will, yes, and that free will resulted
in our fallenness and uh, and that made us incomplete.
So what we what we now know is that Christ
came to make us complete again, and that promise comes
to us as well in Genesis chapter three.
Speaker 2: And even with the UH, you know, the angels and
the sons of God, you know, do you believe they
were given free will? Also?
Speaker 3: Well, I've heard you guys speak of Genesis six and
UH and UH Deuteronomy and other places where the reference
is there. It's a little honestly, it's a little bit
unclear to me exactly what the Holy Spirit is teaching
about those There seems to be this And go to
Job one too, and you see sort of the longest
passage in the scripture where there are this conversation going
on between Satan and God, and so you see this
sort of back scene view of what's going on. It
is clear that there is a wilfulness that's being exerted
by Satan. And as we talk about a little bit
in the worldview perspective, Satan's intent, which is clearly demonstrated
there in Job one and then and two again, is
to separate Job God's servant from God. And he does
that throughout. And so that wilfulness certainly exists, but I
would say I don't quite understand it.
Speaker 1: I think now there's something I have kind of a
question about your opinion on because they're you know, as
far as the church and as far as everything that
we read. I shouldn't say anything we read. But when
you talk to people, you talk to Christians, everybody talks
about Satan. Satan, Satan, he's the bad guy. Satan's the
bad guy. Satan does this. But I think, in my estimation,
in my opinion, when we talk about Satan, we have
to think about what Satan is. First of all, Satan
is a fallen angel, right, I mean that's an angel
is not God. An angel is not omnipotent. An angel
is not omnipresent, right, an angel like we see that
in Daniel, right that when that angel tried to come
to Daniel, Michael had to come and relieve him, fighting
the Prince of Persia to be able to get through
to him. So we know he can't be everywhere at once.
So this Satan is is not omnipresent. We give him
so much power, but it also because we as a church,
make him out to be that he's everywhere and that
he's attacking all of us, and it's not that way.
But what I do think that shows is that Sin
is everywhere in the world. The powers of darkness are
everywhere around us. It's not Satan, it's an army it is.
It is a legion all over again. When we talk
about like from Mark right, when we talk about the
the the all the demons that were infesting, infesting the
human is. Just this stuff is everywhere around us. There's
a constant spiritual battle going on all around us. But
the hard part is everybody wants to put a little
sticker on it or a little stamp on it. Satan,
it's this, you know, he's a little devil on your shoulder,
and we are making him into a god that he
is not. By doing that, we're giving him more power
than he actually has. And honestly, if Satan was on
the present and omniscient, he never would have let Jesus
be crucified because then we were all saved. So if
he'd have known that.
Speaker 3: That attempt Matthew chapter four, the Temptation, he certainly attempted
uh to thwart God's plan. Yeah, I'll press on your
thinking here just a little bit. And if you jodasn't
justin I know you might have noticed that I didn't
call this third uh being that is, first being God,
second being man, third being evil. I didn't call him Satan.
And the reason I did not is, I think, very
aligned with what you're saying there, Steve, is that there
they're really I think maybe two categories, and then much
underneath each category. We hear, first of all, Satan called
by different names, and I think we could assume that's
the same being, but it's not always clear that it is.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 3: Beelzebold, is that Satan is the beast? Satan maybe, But
at the same time, if you'll also note in the
in the scriptures that sometimes God is actually referred to
as an angel. So the angel appeared to Abram, and
Abram later says God appeared to him, and so we
see this intermingling of terms, and so I would just
I kind of would leave it at that. I think
it's a little bit ambiguous. What we do know from
that the scriptures believe evil exists, and it has personalized forms,
in some cases Satan, some cases, be in some cases
the serpent, in some cases the beast, but they exist.
We also know that evil exists within you and me,
and that's not personified. That is just our evil hearts
at work that is bringing evil around. And I think
maybe to your point, sometimes we blame that on the
devil when we ought to be blaming it on ourselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what I was going to say. It
all comes down to accountability. And that's one thing too
with this whole Deuteronomy thirty two worldview. You know, everybody
wants to blame Satan and oh well the fallen angels,
you know, came down and taught us all this sin
and all these bad, wicked things that you know. Yeah,
but you need to take accountability because yeah, you were
shown these things, but you chose to do them. So
I think that's man's way of doing the scapegoat, know,
going back to Isaza, the original scapegoat, and uh, it's
just you know, people just need to take accountability.
Speaker 3: But well, and to your point there, justin the scriptures
make it very clear that God will hold us individually accountable.
He's not blaming it on Satan.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And one thing too, I just remembered it while
you were talking. The sin is within us. The evil,
you know, is there a part of it? It's in us?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: I think back to Trey Smith. We just had him
on the show not that long ago. In his one
of his episodes, he was talking about the whole the
rebellion at the Garden and the original word where it
says crafty. You know, it says that Satan was more uh,
the serpent was more crafty than any you know, anything
that God created. Well, that word is a room. Well
when they yeah, my Hebrews is as good as yours.
But when they bid into the apple and it says
that then they realized that they were naked. That that's
the same word. So it's like that by doing that,
it's like, you know where it's the same word there.
It's like they were signaling to the reader that they
took on a property of Satan in that moment. What
do you think about that?
Speaker 1: I agree with you on that though, just real quick,
because the same thing when Peter comes to Jesus and
Jesus tells him, you know, get behind me, Satan, he's
not actually calling Peter Satan. It's calling the temptation Satan, right.
Speaker 2: Spirit behind him?
Speaker 3: Yeah, or or certainly the the intent behind it was
satanic and to keep Jesus from doing what God had
called him to do. I think you brought up a
really interesting point by the way, which of course when uh,
when God created Adam and Eve, and then he declared
that they were naked and unashamed. Again that word you're
referring to, that Hebrew word then is revealed in Satan
as being crafty or naked. And then later of course
they they they are naked and ashamed. Yeah, but but
something you know, we don't have time maybe this evening
the deal that delve into, but it's worth I think
considering that that's a reflection of our nakedness before God
and that uh, and that Satan uh, in his craftiness,
his deceptiveness was still well known by God.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: That's that's then carried forward if you look in Genesis
chapter four and verse one, that Adam knew Eve and
they conceived a child. And then that terminology of being
known is reflected throughout especially Genesis for for sex sexual intercourse,
and the reflection there is is this entire nakedness of
being completely known. And so my point there, being as
crafty as Satan was, he wasn't more crafty than God.
God knew him well, and he stood naked before God himself,
and his intents were naked before God.
Speaker 2: Yes, I like how Vicki Joy When we went to
see her at that conference. She was talking about, you know,
people reaching out you know, through Seance's we giboords, the mediums,
all this kind of stuff. She said, you got to realize,
she said that these are the flunkies. She said, these
are the ones that got the junkie knowledge, she said,
and then we're booted out. She said. So it's like,
if you're having trouble in algebra, would you go to
your dad that quit school in fourth grade to help you?
She said, No, he's a flunky. She said, these guys
are flunky.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, the other point that on your worldview I thought
was important and we've kind of touched on it, and
so I've seen this as a segue, you know, was
evil's purpose is to destroy your relationship with God.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 2: So how does the Christian nowadays, I guess polish their
glasses and see these deceptions in world in the world today.
Speaker 3: Well, I think you guys are certainly doing a good
job in your podcast as you talk about the unseen
realm uh, and that from the very beginning. Again, you know,
I'm passionate as as we talked about about Genesis one, two,
and three. Uh, we see that immediately. And I think
that term crafty that you brought up is is certainly
emblematic that Satan's intent, from it's from his very first appearance,
is to be deceptive. But also, uh, he is. He
actually exists, and whatever form you are being confronted with,
whether it's the evil inside of you which is real,
whether it's actual being by the name of Satan or
one of his fallen angels, that uh, this isn't a joke.
We're not We're not talking about myths here and ancient
stories that have no meaning for us today. That he
actually does exist today, and he has one purpose in mind,
and that is to separate you and me from our
heavenly our good father who means only good for us.
And so if he can be successful in separating us,
then we will be separated from our good heavenly creator forever.
That is his purpose. And so if you see it
any other way, you can very easily be deceived. And
I would also say it's a very easy way to
recognize when Satan is at work or when evil is
at work, because you would look under the covers and
see the purpose of that activity is to separate you
from God. So an example would be if I mean,
we have a lot going on in politics today, it's
pretty easy to see where some of those activities are
coming from if you just look and again see their
purpose is to cut you off from religion, for instance.
And really when they say religion, they really almost always
mean from Christianity. And so if you have a neighbor
who is disrupting you on Sunday mornings, then it's not
hard to see where those activities are coming from. And
they're coming from a real source of evil whose intent
is to separate you from your heavenly father.
Speaker 1: I think that's spot on. I do want to jump
back kind of what to what you said a little
bit back. I want to back it up a little
bit there. I can't help myself. I'm sorry, but uh,
I know. And we talked a bit about this before
we even started recording here, but you were talking about
Genesis one, two, and three and kind of that being
your passion right now and kind of how that's a
framework for scripture in general. And I kind of want
to get your take just because honestly, you think about it,
a lot of people you know when they go to
some people. You know, now, I never used to read
a lot, and now I can't put my Bible down
because it's it's just it's fascinates me. And I just
it draws me in when I get home. That's the
first thing I want to do. It just it draws
me in. But a lot of people are intimidated by
reading or or they just don't They can't seem to
get invested in something like the Bible. But we're trying
to help peel off and and and give them that
lens to show them the miraculous, the the amazing, the
the ultimate power of God. But if we could narrow
it down and say, hey, just read Genesis one, two
and three, and and and and how would you want
them to read that? What would you want to take
from that?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the first the first three things. I'll
just repeat what's in our in our model in front
of us, and and justin I think you've suggest it
would maybe make this available.
Speaker 2: But on the community page for the guy's listing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to say that, of course it's incomplete.
I'm not proposing that I know everything about God here,
but just some basic things that are so important for
them understanding the rest rest of scriptures. So if those
there are three things, uh Steve that that we talk
about here and and it certainly starts with God as
Creator and what that means, very specifically, is is that
God as creator is that everything was made by him.
And if everything was made by him, then he can
claim his purpose for everything that was me But it's
there's another really important point to keep in mind, and
I think you guys delve into this a lot in
your podcast, which is God is not bound by time
and space. You know, time and space and matter, as
Einstein pointed out in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties
and beyond even they're all created. And so don't try
to bind God by time and space and matter. Those
are all created things. He must by definition lie outside
of those things. And you know, we could spend a
lot of time talking about what that means in terms
of the universe today and the things that we're discovering.
And when you, as a for instance, how do you
apply this when I when I learn there's been a
new discovery and astronomy, filter it through that lens. God,
our creator, lies outside of time, space and matter. And
I'll give you a little bit of a quick illustration here.
I mean, I think you probably hear about the term
matter and that there's all this matter planets and stars
and dust in space well as best we know, and
these are precise measurements. By the way, these aren't this
is just some scientists putting the finger in the air,
but they precisely measure that that there's that the universe
is made up of five percent matter five percent, And
that's all we actually know about the universe is that
five percent of matter. But we've made some other discoveries,
and you might have heard of the term dark matter,
and what that is reflective of is not dark, it's invisible.
So we've discovered there's twenty seven percent of the universe
that is made up of invisible matter. And the reason
we call it matter is because it holds back the
universe's expansion. So if we just go along with what
the scientists say, Ben, I want to argue with you
about the day's in.
Speaker 2: Gen one, it's all right, but.
Speaker 3: Let's just go with them for a second and go Okay,
So there was a big bang, and that big bang
created this immense expansion from a dot and a point
of time and a point of matter. And what we
now know is that the universe is not only is
not static, but it continues to expand. But it would
expand faster if there wasn't this dark energy, dark mant matter,
or invisible matter, because the five percent matter that we
do know is not enough to keep it from expanding
faster and faster. However, it keeps expanding. So how does
that happen. Well, it happens because we've discovered quote unquote
sixty seven percent of the universe is made up of
invisible energy, which keeps propelling. So let me just tell
you this. Scientists who say there cannot be a God,
we don't believe in God. There's no proof of God.
If discovered that ninety five percent of the universe is
made up of invisible matter and invisible energy, that they
don't know what it.
Speaker 2: Is, and what's crazy? This brings us to this point.
I shared this image just a few days ago, and
that's why I had my phone out dickon trying to
find it. You know this, You know, dumb cave people
back in the Old Testament knew what science is just
learning now, you know, Isaiah knew about the universe. Expanding Isaiah,
chapter forty, verse two, it says it is he who
sits above the sphere of earth its inhabitants like grasshoppers,
who stretches the heavens.
Speaker 3: Amen, I mean, and so you're pointing out justin and
there are other places to go again, Steve, back to
your question. So when we see things like that, and
then we look through the lens of a biblical worldview
and say we know God as creator and he lies
outside of the universe, then we have an answer to
that ninety five percent called the invisible stuff that's controlling
the universe that scientists say cannot be God. Why we
don't know because we haven't discovered God. And now we
go to Romans won verses nineteen and twenty, where we
where Paul says, and what can be known about God
he has already revealed. So you know, we're not the
ones who are trying to discover things or discover the authors.
We already know the author.
Speaker 2: And he goes on to say, so we are without excuse.
Speaker 3: Amen, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So in any cases,
the other two things there, Steve, is that God's sovereign
and what that means is once again, you know Satan.
We can talk about Satan and his unseen realm and
certainly the power that God has allowed him to have,
but we see again and Job wanted too, that he
doesn't operate outside of God's sovereignty. Everything he does is
within God's sovereignty. We may not understand it. Remember, we
only know what can be revealed, what can be known
about God, and there's clearly lots of things we can't
know at this time. And then ultimately that God is
good and that means that anything that God is in
control of, he is doing it for good. And so
it gives us the opportunity to keep looking to see
what is God doing that is good? In what's going
on right now in my life. That's rue and God
will reveal it. He will reveal it.
Speaker 5: It's like a big picture. Don't be stuck on the
little picture. Look at the big picture. You might be
suffering through something right now, but it's meant for something
later down the road that you can't handle unless you
suffered that little bit at the time. He did.
Speaker 1: That's right, and I'll always feel like a weight on you.
And it's the hard part is that the struggles and
things and I look back through my life and I
can see lots of times where you know, I did
things you know that we're obviously not right, and and
the struggles or even other times when I just struggled
and I didn't think I should have to. But my gosh,
all those things have have have calmed, have all come
together for this, you know, for for now, for whatever's
happening right now, for us to be able to reach
out and help people through other through things that are
going through the same thing. You know that we've already
been through and we're there to help. You know that.
We always talk about it. We always say iron sharpens iron. Right,
we're there to help other Christians through these things. We're helped,
We're there to help bring more people to God. But
my gosh, we have Like I said, it's it's just
such a gift to know that even though we don't
understand it, God does and it's in his hands. We
don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 5: And that's the main thing. You have to give it
to God. You do have to give it to God,
and that's you know, you have that choice. You can
struggle with it yourself, but he's there. He's there to
help you whenever you ask him.
Speaker 3: I tried.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you, Rick, I try to verbalize this
all the time, and you did it so much better
in about in about five minutes that I've tried to
in about an hour with certain people. So I absolutely
love it. Thank you on that part.
Speaker 3: Well, you know where anything that's truthful comes from. And
I could say justin that if we only built this
biblical foundation on those three points that God's creator, that
God's sovereign, and God is good, it would be enough
to understand our lives and what happens every day, and
how to respond in a world in which God is
in control and he is good all the time. He's good.
Speaker 2: And you think that since he put it right in
the beginning of the book that it was kind of important.
We missed it. We skip to the end, right to
the back.
Speaker 3: And so as you look at the end of chapter one,
what is it end with God looking at his creation?
It was.
Speaker 2: Very very good. Yes on the time. Yeah, But when
he was doing all the talk about the time, space
and matter, it reminded me of Kent Hovind. I know
you're probably familiar with some of his stuff. No, he
back in the eighties, I believe it was. He done
a lot of debates and stuff with professors and college
professors and stuff like that on creation and evolution. And
I'll never forget it. It's one of my favorite video
clips ever. And you tell it was totally eighties because
he had like this red almost polyester suit on and
the big glasses. You know, it was atrocious. But the professor,
you know, was belittling him talking about God, you know,
and basically I can't remember exactly, but he made a point.
He was like, so he said, your God is is spirit,
virtual and not made of any matter. We can't see him.
And same thing with these angels. So how many angels
can fit on the tip of my pen? You know?
He's like, and where does your God come from? You know,
where did he come from? You know? Or where did
he come from? And all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, he stood up and he was like, okay.
He said, first of all, he says, you're referring to
time space and he said matter. He says matter, time
space and matter. He says, my God is not limited
by time space or matter. He said, because if you
had time but no space, where would you put it?
He said, if you had space but no time, when
would you put it? He said. The book that I
ascribed to says in the beginning, there's time. He said,
God created the heavens. There's space and then the earth,
and there's matter, time, space and matter. He said, it's
a trinity of trinity's. He said, all three must exist simultaneously.
He said, just as this computer and he pointed to
a or whatever, and he says, he said, the man
that designed this software is not inside there, bouncing around
fixing codes and doing things. Nose, He's outside of it.
The creator is outside of it. My God is outside right.
Speaker 5: If y'all don't know the video, you got to look
it up. Yeah, I can't hold on looking Blaze the
guy pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think you know. The one point I
would also want to want to emphasize here is it
is the last thing for a Christian is to be
afraid of science. I'm not talking about the Doctor Fauci
form of science, where we deny everything except what we
believe well and can't and can't prove. I'm talking about
real science, for instance, Yeah, I mean I I subscribe
to Astronomy magazine why because they are constantly unveiling things
that demonstrate over and over again the truth of the
scriptures and the fact that they don't apply them to
the scriptures is immaterial and so but but again, you
just look at the evidence over and over again that
is coming from more and more expansive science, and God's
revealing has revealed himself. We're just continuing to discover more
of it all the time. Yes, I just love that.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the more and more we
discover and the more and more you see as the
web telescope, is that the one that's up there right now,
that the pictures and the stuff that they show us,
and it's like, my gosh, is God good with the
paint brush? You know what I mean. He's such an
amazing the stuff that He's put there to show us
how great and amazing he is. It's such a gift
that we can see those things and see and then
and then honestly, it takes so much more faith to
believe that happened by accident. Yeah, how can you not
think that there's not a creator? After you look at
that and see that I mean, I can say that
about a tree. You can tell me a tree happened
by accident. But you look at the heavens, look at this,
look at space, and tell me that happened by accident.
And I don't know. I don't think I can help you.
Speaker 2: I'm smart.
Speaker 5: That's what you get through.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Creation is the biggest receipt Yeah, of God. Like its
systems within systems within systems. Man. And even if one
beats all the astronomical odds to come into existence, if
the other systems outside of it that it relies on,
does it come into existence at the exact same time
it beats astronomical odds die?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't work. You have to have all this everything,
and you know, you say the big bang. It's like
a hangarnade, an explosion. You're not gonna get a Rolex
watch out of a hangernade, right, But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that takes good faith.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yet oak tree has seeds that plants an
oak tree, it's not an oak tree has a squirrel,
which has a daisy, which has a cockroach.
Speaker 2: It does.
Speaker 5: There's so much order to everything.
Speaker 1: Look back, look back through the Bible, and you look
at even when people weren't worshiping God. They were worshiping
a god, whoever it might have been. Maybe it was Marduk,
or maybe it was was Tamuz, or maybe it was
I mean, there's all these different you know, Anana, all
these different gods throughout time and Molac all it talks
about them sacrificing their children to Molac. They were always
worshiping a god and and and there was always something
they were worshiping. It's not until we started trying to
take religion out of society that we started down this
path of oh it, you know, guess what. Something blew
up and then you know, this turned into this and
evolution happened, and all we started taking that out. Even
people back in biblical times when they didn't believe in
the Hebrew or the Israelite God, they still believed in
a god because they knew that it was bigger than them.
Speaker 3: They knew it even though.
Speaker 1: It was not the right god. A lot of times,
they knew it was bigger than them.
Speaker 5: They do something had to be there.
Speaker 1: And then we get to the point now where we
have taken that point, the same point when we talk
about the garden and we said, you know, the Satan's
deception is you will be like God's. That's what people
want to believe nowadays, is that we are the superior
speech we are the superior of everything, so that we
are above that.
Speaker 3: So now if we aren't.
Speaker 1: The ones that created us, then it has to been
by accident. We don't want to. People never want to
have responsibility for their actions, so they think about other things.
And we talk about this, and I don't know how
much you look into some of these things, Rick, I
really don't. But the I it drives me nuts. You know,
you see these shows on TV, like Ancient Aliens, right,
and if you take that the aliens off and you
put gods and demons and and and as instead of aliens,
you know what, you're pretty on point. But but if
you if you sit there and you try to try
to say that this is all they want to believe,
it's something like aliens or something because they don't want
to have responsibility to a god. They want it to
be something where it's they don't have to have accountability
for their actions.
Speaker 2: And I think it's the inversion of God. That's what
Satan and and Lock he said it, you know, separates
you from God so how does he do that? He
flips everything upside down. If you got your you know,
your Christian worldview glasses on, well what's the best way
to distort the image. Well, let's fog up those glasses,
you know. I think see Lewis's book The Screwtape Letters
is a prime example of what we see today. I mean,
he did such a good job on that. It's like,
it's the simple little things, you know, we see as
you know, the fall of man and sin, corruption and
big things. You know, even simple as a guy cutting
you off in traffic and that little whisper in you
in your head, you know, just jump out and give
him the bird, you know, as simple as that. Or Hey,
make this little ad pop up with this half naked
woman on your Facebook feed and click on that. It's
all these little, open, little crack doors that you know
that leads you. It's just like, hey, come on, you know,
it's always the little things that we always look to
the big but and that's what I think. It's so
pivotal about having this Christian worldview because then once you
have it, you can see it for what it is.
You know, you don't justify it, be like oh, you know,
I just you know, looked lustfully at my neighbor's wife.
It ain't no big deal. I didn't do nothing, you know.
But no, it's if you got your your right glasses on,
you know, and see for what it is. It's a
temptation and thus separates you from God. It's a lot
bigger than what the lie of Satan, fallen angels, whatever
you want to label you want to put on it.
But it's bigger than what they're making it out to be.
Speaker 1: But that's the lie, isn't it. It is that's the lie.
Is that it. Oh, it's no big deal. You didn't
do anything. It's no big deal. It's this, it's no
big you can don't touch exactly. And we go down,
we go down a dark road, and it's it's.
Speaker 2: It's a chess game of small moves.
Speaker 1: It is when I say the days of Noah, you know,
it says, you know, as in the end, it will
be like the days of Noah. And you kind of think,
if we're not there yet, how bad were the days
of Noah? Oh my gosh, But I mean, where are
we right now on that historical time? Is it?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: And once again there's no way to say for sure,
but are we is it in our lifetime? Are we close?
Is it the next generation? I mean, I know there's
no way to say for sure, but what's your opinion
on that matter?
Speaker 3: Well, I don't I mean, my first opinion is is
not an opinion but a fact, which is Jesus says
very clearly, we cannot know that we're that we are
not given that right, that not even he was given
that right. And so I'll start there. But I don't
think that keeps us from speculating exactly. And I also
don't think yeah. And I also think that God, you know,
does part of awareness is anticipation and so but you know, there,
I certainly get what you're saying, Steve, I really do,
and I feel that. And I can't tell you how
many times in the last few years my wife and
I have said things like, you know, I hope Jesus
is coming back soon, and you know, and that's right.
Revelation entreats us to say Marinatha comes soon or Jesus,
And so I think we are given to that nature
to think it's any time now. That's what Jesus caused
us to do. But I also think that if you
were living in Ukraine right now, that you might absolutely
believe what you just said. It can't get any worse,
and can Jesus come back tonight? You know, living in America,
we probably are not suffering anywhere close to where we
might when not. And so I don't know when he's coming.
I know that he's told me I can't know, but
he didn't say I couldn't regulate, So you know, I
us think it'll be a surprise. It'll be at a
time when we are frankly more likely to be at
rest and relaxed. If you think about one of his
his parables there that the the the really surprised guests
of the bridegrooms, where though they were just kind of
sitting around relaxed. And so I wonder in some ways
if it's not so much a sign of how bad
things are as how relaxed we might be.
Speaker 2: Ready, A lot of people missed the second part of that.
You know, it says as it was in the days
of Noah, and if you continue, it says they were
eating and drinking and marrying and great point. So yeah,
that that shows you that they weren't worried about it.
They were having a good old time.
Speaker 3: That's a great point.
Speaker 1: Is that is that just this, is that the picture
saying that we are just we're gonna slowly kind of ill.
Speaker 2: They forget desensitized.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but is that not exactly what we're going through
right now? Is not everything that we see on TV,
everything we see around us is desensitizing us to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's you're feeling.
Speaker 1: Say, look at things. I mean, I mean you can't.
You can watch.
Speaker 2: Kid yeah, child Sacrifice to Bayl just different wrapping paper.
Speaker 1: But when I was, when I was a kid, and
you watch TV, right, your regular old TV show, your sitcoms,
Michael J. Fox and Family Ties and things like this,
Oh it's funny and it really didn't make anything too edgy.
Speaker 3: Now, Steve, I'm a lot older than that. By the way, Well.
Speaker 5: We weren't gonna say anything.
Speaker 3: Three my three sons comes to mind. But anyway, keep going.
Speaker 1: No, you're good, You're good, Okay, I can go. Andy
Griffith watching don Not in Mayberry, right, you know, it
was it was innocent, it was it was fun, it
was friendly. But you can't go and watch network TV
without them pushing sex, without them pushing nudity. Without them
pushing all these different new ideas in the world that
are are pushing more and more of this mainstream, the
more and more the anana. When we talk about as
as above so below, and we talk about some of
the god worshiped back then that we when we go
way back and when we talk about the gods they
worship that they could believe could transform from men to
women and all these different things. And we're back to
that point right now. We're back to that point where
we're seeing where you can just decide today, hey, you.
Speaker 6: Know whatorn that you can be a unicorn, then you
look like a unicorn when you you can chew to
be whatever you want, and you can do this and
you can do that.
Speaker 1: And I believe again that when it says and we
look back at at at at Genesis and we when
we look at the words of Satan there and he says,
or then Akash the serpent, and he says, you will
be like God's what can gods do? Gods can choose
to do whatever they want, Gods can be whatever they want.
And it's exactly what we're instilling in the younger generation
today more so than ever before. It is to be
just like that, you can be gods.
Speaker 5: You can choose and and even on top of that,
not just what they can do, it's what they don't
have to do.
Speaker 2: Well, just for the read, just for the record, we're
choosing what we can be. Right. My pronouns from here
on out are handsome when you refer to me, I
think it's handsome. Okay, handsome, thank you.
Speaker 1: This is why we have a podcast that that's audio.
Speaker 2: Yes, hey, now, okay, Rick.
Speaker 3: Well, one thing, one thing is for sure, and that's
that God calls us as and even commanded us through
his son to be ready to anticipate any day now.
Speaker 1: And I'm ready. And as just as those apostles said soon,
he's coming soon, we have to say that too. He's
coming soon, and everybody better be ready. And you know
what that means. That doesn't mean just have your your
bags packed and you're ready to go. Make sure everybody
you know is ready to go too, because they're not
going to have another chance. It's our job, that's the
whole great commissions, our job to make sure we're taking
as many people with us as we can.
Speaker 2: And that's one thing that bothered me, honestly about that
bridegroom parable. You know, everybody hears that and they're like, oh, well,
you know what I take from that is have my
lamp oll full be ready to go. Honestly, when I
read that, my first impression was was sadness. It was
like the ones that didn't make it. I want to
be the one that's got my old but I got
some despair to give somebody else that way they can go.
Speaker 1: I brought a whole can fall.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I got you got the Caro scene right for
the eater over there.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Well, Rick, we really appreciate you coming on with us,
and this has been very stimulating. I love these big
mind flex talks.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Rick.
Speaker 1: You're right at my alley right now, buddy. It's kind
of the same stuff I'm diving into and it's been awesome.
Speaker 3: You well, it's been great to be with you guys. Thanks.
I'm thrilled with all that you're doing and love your show.
Speaker 2: Well, think I appreciate what We'll have you back. We'll
take a deep dive on time.
Speaker 3: That's another favorite subject.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, all right, well, guys, we thank you for
tuning in and you guys keep on digging. Well.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Dig Bible Podcast. Questions, comments,
or future episode ideas, We love to hear from you
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