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Speaker 1: We should read our bibles as men dig for bury treasure.

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Speaker 2: One of the most high game of the nations their inheritance.

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When He divided mankind, he fixed the borders of people's

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according to the number of the sons of God.

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Speaker 1: In those days and for some time after, giant Nephilites

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lived down to the earth. For whenever the sons of

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God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children

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who became the heroes and famous warriors.

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Speaker 3: Of ancient tides.

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Speaker 1: Take no part in the fruitless steeds of darkness, but

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yet expose that though a thousand fall at your side,

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though ten.

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Speaker 2: Thousand are dying around you, these years will not touching

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lives of garden man. You gotta dig it.

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Speaker 4: Hell, old fellow treasure hunters, Welcome to the excavation side.

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I'must in alongside and when we got Ben Steve even

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in Chad will be your guides on this excursion. Hope

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you brought your shovel in your compass, because we got

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the map.

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Speaker 3: Let's do.

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Speaker 2: What's going on, all my local guys and gals and

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long distance piles. We're back. Since Steven's covering his mouth

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trying not to laugh.

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Speaker 5: He he does yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Think he just likes to make fun of me, trying

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me to choke up.

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Speaker 1: That got no words for that.

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Speaker 2: Rendering him speechless.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't happen very often.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. I'm proud of that. Yeah, you

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solidified it. It's not going away now.

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Speaker 1: So how you guys doing well?

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Speaker 5: I guess I'm the chicken man, have the meat, getting

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the coop and kill nine. I only got five lefts,

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but they're actually laying eggs, which is surprising.

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Speaker 1: You need more?

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Speaker 5: I got a lie, No, I don't need I think good.

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Speaker 2: All right, we have you set up inning traps.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I got traps out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I haven't caught it yet though, but they're out.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fool me once, right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a midnight expedition.

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Speaker 2: What I mean.

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Speaker 5: I think it could be harder than like a code.

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Speaker 6: I don't think they.

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Speaker 5: Make a meat call.

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Speaker 1: I got my own.

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Speaker 5: Oh do you I figured making like a little you know,

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mint code or well they a little scarf or something

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out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's new with you guys. Nothing just working. Yeah,

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twelve hours all week, I hear that. Yeah, good, good money,

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but no rest. Yeah. Well well you get me, that's right,

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the same thing I got you last year.

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Speaker 5: Week. What I need nothing?

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Speaker 2: Well, we got another good guest for you guys, and uh,

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we're gonna get to that in just a second, but

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let's open up in prayer.

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Speaker 5: Ben, Dear Lord, thank for today, Thank you for this

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reign that we've been needing for a while. Thank you

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for everything you do for us. Please give us the

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words we need. Speak through us so and reach the

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people that you're wanting us to reach.

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Speaker 2: Lord and his name Amen. Amen. Well, this guy here,

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me and the wife was visiting a nearby church and

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Lord seen fit for paths to cross and he spoke

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at his church on Christian Worldview and it was just

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fascinating to hear him talk. And so after it was

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over with that, all walked up to him, was like, Hey,

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would you mind do this again on a podcast? And

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he's like, why, sure.

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Speaker 1: Would you mind if I harass you a little bit?

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I asked you by my question.

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Speaker 2: Dog man, But but yeah, he said he would, and

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me and that this guy has had several conversations and

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I've been looking forward this for a long time. But

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his names Rick Hasty, Rick Hay.

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Speaker 3: You doing, Hey, guys, it's a pleasure to be with

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you tonight.

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Speaker 2: Well, give give our listeners a little background information. Who

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are you? What's your specialties? Passions?

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Speaker 3: Oh? My, well, I'm a North Carolinian by birth and

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a North Carolina tar Hill by choice. Although we're kind

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of a depressed group of people these days after the

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athletic efforts of the last eight or ten days.

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Speaker 2: But okay, we can relate.

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Speaker 1: I'm from Michigan.

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Speaker 3: Well you do understand, Oh no, so so uh so anyway,

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passion wise, I mean, I became a believer when I

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was a teenager and it was a big, big change

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for me. And uh, and I think God was good

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to me to just have me discipled by a great

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young pastor who really poured himself into me for a

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few years and gave me a love for his word.

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And you know, I got a chance to study languages

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early on and uh, and then found out real quickly

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that uh, I didn't have much to offer at all

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as a pastor. So I decided to that God could

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just use me wherever I was. And you know, I'd

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love to say it's all been smooth salan, but I'm

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not always been faithful to him. But he's always been

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faithful to me, and in the midst of that just uh,

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you know, I think giving me a passion for knowing

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his word more for for certainly seeking out deeper truths,

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although I think the deepest truths he's probably reserved for

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seeing him face to face one day. But as you

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know from our little time together back in that Sunday

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morning service, have a real passion around Genesis one, two,

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and three and specifically how we can learn from there

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who God is. And so I spent a lot of

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time in those three chapters, among lots of others, but

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that certainly a place have a lot of passion for, justin.

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Speaker 2: Well, your talk that you gave was on, you know,

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a Christian worldview, and honestly, that's something that I think

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as believers we kind of are an autopilot with, you know,

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whether we actually exercise it or not. Even when we are,

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we don't actually realize and have the forethought while we're

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doing it. Could you explain in your opinion what a

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Christian worldview is, how it's important, and how you think

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we should exercise that as believers.

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Speaker 3: Sure that the easiest way to think of a biblical

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world view or a Christian worldview is as a bridge

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between theology, which we learned from the scriptures. Theology, of course,

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is the study of God, and so we learned lots

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of theology in the scriptures, but sometimes I'd say we

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forget how to apply theology. And that's why I call

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our worldview is really a bridge between philosophical things, things

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we think we believe, and things we actually do. And

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so what ends up happening a lot of times is

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that people say they believe things about Christ, things about God,

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but then they behave as though they believe totally different things.

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And so having the right biblical worldview really enables you

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to see the world the way God sees it and

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to respond the way God would have us respond.

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Speaker 1: I think you're spot on there, and I think a

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lot of the problem in general is that you know

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as and I think, and I have to preface this,

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I always say this. I think church is so important.

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I think being fed and being around fellow Christians is

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so important. But at the same time, a lot of Christians,

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and if you could see me, you might see some

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air quotes there, but a lot of Christians when they

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leave the church, they leave God at the church. They

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don't take him home with them, and that I think

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is the biggest problem with the church today. And I

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talked a little bit about this on our little page

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that we have, but it the the fact of the

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matter is when we go back and you look at

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what when when when Jesus said Peter was the foundation

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of the church, and and he said the church right

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singular And now you look at where we are. We're divided.

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You know that there's so many different We've taken human uh,

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man written doctrines and theology and taken that and gone

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away from the words. So you're listening to a man

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and not going to the word yourself. I think that

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people overlook the biggest gift that we've ever been given,

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and that's the Word of God, the Bible in our hand.

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We'd rather have somebody spoon feed it to us than

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dig into ourselves. And I think that's probably the biggest

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problem in the world right now.

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Speaker 3: I agree, right yeah, And and of course, uh, you

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can sit in church and listen to teaching, but my

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hope would be you're listening to good teaching, yes, because

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that's not always the case. And uh, and I think

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I've heard you guys say on some of your programs

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and are really really uh, celebrate your perspective that we

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are able to read God's word and learn from it.

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And uh. And John tells us that that really we

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don't need any teachers, that the Holy Spirit is our teacher.

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Now I don't believe that means we don't benefit from

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good teaching. Of course we do. But I also believe

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that if we're not getting good teaching, where would we.

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We don't have any good excuses either, because as you

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just said, that the Word is available to us and

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God will teach us through his word.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you hit the nail on the

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head there. And I think that just once again, that's

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something that I can't emphasize enough, is that you can

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look around the world and look at different religions and

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look at different things, but we we have this gift

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right You look at other countries and you can't even

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pick up a Bible, and we're given that gift and

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we have it right in front of us, and so

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many people choose not to use it. And it's right,

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not not condemning anyone, not saying that, you know, but

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you know what, it's a good time to start if

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you haven't yet.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's never too late exactly.

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Speaker 2: Which I got this hand out that you had as

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a slide on your presentation, and you have what's here.

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It'says the foundations for Christian worldview. And I like how

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you phrase this as the Christian worldview is the lens

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through which we view the world and make decisions about

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how we will live. Every worldview is seeking an answer

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for truth and meaning. You know, that's one thing that

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we say, you know, with the whole supernatural you know lens.

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You know, once we start looking into it and reading

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it as the Second Temple Jewish people read it and

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interpreting it to the time frame to which it was

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writting written to, you see it with a whole new

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set of glasses. And I think that's the the same

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thing here, if you know, once you put your Christian

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worldview glasses on, you see things totally different. And I

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love it. I'm just gonna hit your little bullet points

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here because I like them. It says, sure, man is incomplete,

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man is falling, Man is God's image bearer, God is sovereign,

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God is creator, God is good, Evil is real, Evil

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is deceptive, and evil is defeated. And I really, I

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really like that is there anything on that list there

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that you'd like to touch on or dive into a

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little deeper.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're looking at sort of an umbrella image, and

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at the peak of that image is that God is Creator.

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And as you might recall from my presentation previously, I

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really break these into these three key categories that we

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need to understand in order to have a solid foundation,

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and that is that we need to understand truths about God,

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truths about mankind, and truths about evil. And without clarity

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in those three areas, then it's going to lead to

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us going down paths and our lives that are going

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to be very painful and sometimes very harmful to us

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and to even those around us. But it also leads

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us to have I think, misunderstandings about what it means

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to be a Christian. And so there are a lot

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of people that I think, frankly don't hold to these

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nine points that you just mentioned there, and the result

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of that is they also don't often interpret the scriptures properly,

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much less things that happen in their daily lives.

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Speaker 2: Which one thing that I like to dive into. It's

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something that we've talked about a few times, you know,

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here and there and kind of round about. Was the

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whole theme on image bearing. That's something that I'm been

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passionate about. And once I put on those glasses and

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started reading it in the Bible, you know, in Genesis one,

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you know, it says, let us make man in our image.

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You know, I was always brought up you know that

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that was the Trinitarian worldview, and me personally was when

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I read it, you know, I seen it as it

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was the divine counsel, you know, because when it said job,

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you know, when he was condemning Job for his questioning,

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you know, he said, you know, where were you when

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I laid the foundations? And where were you when I

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done all these things? And he says, you know, when

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the morning stars and the sons of God saying for joy,

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So it shows you, you know, that they were there

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at creation before us, kind of like an elder brother's thing.

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But so, but we were made in his image. And

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then it you know, and then when it come amount

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of exodus, you know, they were uh it says do

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not One of the commandments was do not take the

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Lord's name in vain, you know, and a is always

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brought up that that's cussing and swearing, and then that

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opened up my eyes and I'm like, no, don't be

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a hypocrite. You are taking by saying that you are

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God's people, you are his image bearers, you're representing him.

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So don't don't say you're representing him and live like

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the heathen, you know, like all the people surrounding them.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: And I think that your point there is one of

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several points that can be made as it relates to

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what it means to be an image bearer I and

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I would point out by the way that maybe one

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of the biggest misunderstandings of what that means is certainly

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as you read Genesis one twenty seven there that we

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were made in His image, male and female. He made us.

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And so as you look at that, and then you

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later look at in chapter two at the creation of

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Eve out of Atom, if you just look under the

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covers a little bit around the Hebrew language that's being used,

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is it really recognizes again that it's not male that

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bears God's image, it's not female that bears God's image.

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It's male and female that bear God's image adequately. And

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so that's kind of another item I think to put

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on your list there, guys, is that being an image

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bearer is reflected perfectly. This carries over into the New

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Testament in particular. You know, we can look at at

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a variety of passages, certainly Corinthians and in Ephesians, that

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God intended the marriage relationship to reflect him, and likewise

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he intended it to reflect the relationship between Christ and

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the Church. And so that holistic view of his image

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comes forth as we see who God is through both

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male and female, and especially through the expression of marriage itself.

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Speaker 2: And one thing too, was the whole you know, on

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earth as it is in heaven, the way they saw

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things back then. You know, the temple, you know, was

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was created after you know the creation account, you know

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what kind of mirrors it. So it's basically when God

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created earth, it was his temple. And every temple has

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you know, an image and priests, right, so the you know,

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they it says that Israel, they would be a nation

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of priests. So there you have God's priests. And then

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in that same book, you know, he tells you, you know,

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make unto yourself no graven image. Well, my opinion is

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because the image was already there. It's it's mankind. We're

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the image bears, So you don't need an image. The

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image is already in the temple. And with that whole worldview,

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I think if you actually take the time to look

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at that, it really puts a mirror in front of

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your face and you're like, how am I living? And

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it's people seeing God through me and the actions that

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I'm doing, because that's what we're supposed to be doing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think you toss in there too, justin

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the reality classing is three ten and Sesians for twenty

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four pointed out specifically that we're also being made into

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His image through Christ. That while we were created in

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and perfection and goodness, uh from the very beginning, uh,

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and we were now falling, which is of course a

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part of this model here, but that now we're being

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made complete again in Christ into God's image and and

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so we have that promise to look forward to as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because like even the Law that was just the

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starting point. You know, I can't remember where it was

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at in the New Testament, but it said that, uh,

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you know, the the Law was a tutor to kind

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of show us how to be good image bears until

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the up Jesus.

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Speaker 1: But also to show us that we were imperfect, because

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no one could unhold the law, no one could uphold

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that exactly. So we had to see that we were imperfect,

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that we needed Jesus because no one can get there

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on their own.

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Speaker 2: Yep, you know he said you would be as God's.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're referring there to Hebrews four, but yeah,

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that's right. And so I think that this if you

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think about these three let's call them elements within that

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concept of how do we understand man from a biblical

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worldview perspective, that man is an image bearer man. And remember,

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by the way, this whole concept of man being a

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word that is only used for the male gender, that's

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not the way the scriptures see it. Again, And you

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know Genesis one twenty seven and says God made man

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male and female. He made them. So just keep in

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mind my reference here is to that complete image as

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male and female, that we're his image bearer. But we

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have part of that image of God that he gave

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us was free will, yes, and that free will resulted

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in our fallenness and uh, and that made us incomplete.

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So what we what we now know is that Christ

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came to make us complete again, and that promise comes

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to us as well in Genesis chapter three.

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Speaker 2: And even with the UH, you know, the angels and

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the sons of God, you know, do you believe they

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were given free will? Also?

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Speaker 3: Well, I've heard you guys speak of Genesis six and

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UH and UH Deuteronomy and other places where the reference

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is there. It's a little honestly, it's a little bit

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unclear to me exactly what the Holy Spirit is teaching

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about those There seems to be this And go to

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Job one too, and you see sort of the longest

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passage in the scripture where there are this conversation going

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on between Satan and God, and so you see this

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sort of back scene view of what's going on. It

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is clear that there is a wilfulness that's being exerted

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by Satan. And as we talk about a little bit

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in the worldview perspective, Satan's intent, which is clearly demonstrated

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there in Job one and then and two again, is

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to separate Job God's servant from God. And he does

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that throughout. And so that wilfulness certainly exists, but I

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would say I don't quite understand it.

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Speaker 1: I think now there's something I have kind of a

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question about your opinion on because they're you know, as

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far as the church and as far as everything that

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we read. I shouldn't say anything we read. But when

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you talk to people, you talk to Christians, everybody talks

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about Satan. Satan, Satan, he's the bad guy. Satan's the

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bad guy. Satan does this. But I think, in my estimation,

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in my opinion, when we talk about Satan, we have

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to think about what Satan is. First of all, Satan

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is a fallen angel, right, I mean that's an angel

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is not God. An angel is not omnipotent. An angel

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is not omnipresent, right, an angel like we see that

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in Daniel, right that when that angel tried to come

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to Daniel, Michael had to come and relieve him, fighting

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the Prince of Persia to be able to get through

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to him. So we know he can't be everywhere at once.

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So this Satan is is not omnipresent. We give him

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so much power, but it also because we as a church,

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make him out to be that he's everywhere and that

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he's attacking all of us, and it's not that way.

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But what I do think that shows is that Sin

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is everywhere in the world. The powers of darkness are

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everywhere around us. It's not Satan, it's an army it is.

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It is a legion all over again. When we talk

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about like from Mark right, when we talk about the

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the the all the demons that were infesting, infesting the

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human is. Just this stuff is everywhere around us. There's

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a constant spiritual battle going on all around us. But

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the hard part is everybody wants to put a little

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sticker on it or a little stamp on it. Satan,

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it's this, you know, he's a little devil on your shoulder,

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and we are making him into a god that he

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is not. By doing that, we're giving him more power

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than he actually has. And honestly, if Satan was on

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the present and omniscient, he never would have let Jesus

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be crucified because then we were all saved. So if

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he'd have known that.

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Speaker 3: That attempt Matthew chapter four, the Temptation, he certainly attempted

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uh to thwart God's plan. Yeah, I'll press on your

400
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thinking here just a little bit. And if you jodasn't

401
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justin I know you might have noticed that I didn't

402
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call this third uh being that is, first being God,

403
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second being man, third being evil. I didn't call him Satan.

404
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And the reason I did not is, I think, very

405
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aligned with what you're saying there, Steve, is that there

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they're really I think maybe two categories, and then much

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underneath each category. We hear, first of all, Satan called

408
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by different names, and I think we could assume that's

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the same being, but it's not always clear that it is.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 3: Beelzebold, is that Satan is the beast? Satan maybe, But

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at the same time, if you'll also note in the

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in the scriptures that sometimes God is actually referred to

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as an angel. So the angel appeared to Abram, and

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Abram later says God appeared to him, and so we

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see this intermingling of terms, and so I would just

417
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I kind of would leave it at that. I think

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it's a little bit ambiguous. What we do know from

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that the scriptures believe evil exists, and it has personalized forms,

420
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in some cases Satan, some cases, be in some cases

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the serpent, in some cases the beast, but they exist.

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We also know that evil exists within you and me,

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and that's not personified. That is just our evil hearts

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at work that is bringing evil around. And I think

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maybe to your point, sometimes we blame that on the

426
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devil when we ought to be blaming it on ourselves.

427
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what I was going to say. It

428
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all comes down to accountability. And that's one thing too

429
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with this whole Deuteronomy thirty two worldview. You know, everybody

430
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wants to blame Satan and oh well the fallen angels,

431
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you know, came down and taught us all this sin

432
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and all these bad, wicked things that you know. Yeah,

433
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but you need to take accountability because yeah, you were

434
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shown these things, but you chose to do them. So

435
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I think that's man's way of doing the scapegoat, know,

436
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going back to Isaza, the original scapegoat, and uh, it's

437
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just you know, people just need to take accountability.

438
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Speaker 3: But well, and to your point there, justin the scriptures

439
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make it very clear that God will hold us individually accountable.

440
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He's not blaming it on Satan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And one thing too, I just remembered it while

442
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you were talking. The sin is within us. The evil,

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you know, is there a part of it? It's in us?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

445
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Speaker 2: I think back to Trey Smith. We just had him

446
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on the show not that long ago. In his one

447
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of his episodes, he was talking about the whole the

448
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rebellion at the Garden and the original word where it

449
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says crafty. You know, it says that Satan was more uh,

450
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the serpent was more crafty than any you know, anything

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that God created. Well, that word is a room. Well

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when they yeah, my Hebrews is as good as yours.

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But when they bid into the apple and it says

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that then they realized that they were naked. That that's

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the same word. So it's like that by doing that,

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it's like, you know where it's the same word there.

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It's like they were signaling to the reader that they

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took on a property of Satan in that moment. What

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do you think about that?

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Speaker 1: I agree with you on that though, just real quick,

461
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because the same thing when Peter comes to Jesus and

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Jesus tells him, you know, get behind me, Satan, he's

463
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not actually calling Peter Satan. It's calling the temptation Satan, right.

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Speaker 2: Spirit behind him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or or certainly the the intent behind it was

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satanic and to keep Jesus from doing what God had

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called him to do. I think you brought up a

468
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really interesting point by the way, which of course when uh,

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when God created Adam and Eve, and then he declared

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that they were naked and unashamed. Again that word you're

471
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referring to, that Hebrew word then is revealed in Satan

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as being crafty or naked. And then later of course

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they they they are naked and ashamed. Yeah, but but

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something you know, we don't have time maybe this evening

475
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the deal that delve into, but it's worth I think

476
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,759
considering that that's a reflection of our nakedness before God

477
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:47,200
and that uh, and that Satan uh, in his craftiness,

478
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:52,279
his deceptiveness was still well known by God.

479
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:53,359
Speaker 5: Uh.

480
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: That's that's then carried forward if you look in Genesis

481
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,519
chapter four and verse one, that Adam knew Eve and

482
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:07,480
they conceived a child. And then that terminology of being

483
00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:16,200
known is reflected throughout especially Genesis for for sex sexual intercourse,

484
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:21,599
and the reflection there is is this entire nakedness of

485
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:28,000
being completely known. And so my point there, being as

486
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:31,039
crafty as Satan was, he wasn't more crafty than God.

487
00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:35,519
God knew him well, and he stood naked before God himself,

488
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:38,480
and his intents were naked before God.

489
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,079
Speaker 2: Yes, I like how Vicki Joy When we went to

490
00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:44,079
see her at that conference. She was talking about, you know,

491
00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:48,640
people reaching out you know, through Seance's we giboords, the mediums,

492
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,160
all this kind of stuff. She said, you got to realize,

493
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,200
she said that these are the flunkies. She said, these

494
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,680
are the ones that got the junkie knowledge, she said,

495
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,960
and then we're booted out. She said. So it's like,

496
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,279
if you're having trouble in algebra, would you go to

497
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,079
your dad that quit school in fourth grade to help you?

498
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:09,440
She said, No, he's a flunky. She said, these guys

499
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:09,960
are flunky.

500
00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

501
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

502
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,359
Speaker 2: Well, the other point that on your worldview I thought

503
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,359
was important and we've kind of touched on it, and

504
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,359
so I've seen this as a segue, you know, was

505
00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:28,160
evil's purpose is to destroy your relationship with God.

506
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: Yep.

507
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:38,079
Speaker 2: So how does the Christian nowadays, I guess polish their

508
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:46,559
glasses and see these deceptions in world in the world today.

509
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: Well, I think you guys are certainly doing a good

510
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,640
job in your podcast as you talk about the unseen

511
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:05,039
realm uh, and that from the very beginning. Again, you know,

512
00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:08,400
I'm passionate as as we talked about about Genesis one, two,

513
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,360
and three. Uh, we see that immediately. And I think

514
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,360
that term crafty that you brought up is is certainly

515
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:25,280
emblematic that Satan's intent, from it's from his very first appearance,

516
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,480
is to be deceptive. But also, uh, he is. He

517
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:38,360
actually exists, and whatever form you are being confronted with,

518
00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:41,559
whether it's the evil inside of you which is real,

519
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,119
whether it's actual being by the name of Satan or

520
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:53,159
one of his fallen angels, that uh, this isn't a joke.

521
00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:59,239
We're not We're not talking about myths here and ancient

522
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,719
stories that have no meaning for us today. That he

523
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,639
actually does exist today, and he has one purpose in mind,

524
00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:11,159
and that is to separate you and me from our

525
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,400
heavenly our good father who means only good for us.

526
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,880
And so if he can be successful in separating us,

527
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,400
then we will be separated from our good heavenly creator forever.

528
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:31,159
That is his purpose. And so if you see it

529
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,920
any other way, you can very easily be deceived. And

530
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,719
I would also say it's a very easy way to

531
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:44,079
recognize when Satan is at work or when evil is

532
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:47,199
at work, because you would look under the covers and

533
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:53,920
see the purpose of that activity is to separate you

534
00:35:54,559 --> 00:36:00,599
from God. So an example would be if I mean,

535
00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:03,119
we have a lot going on in politics today, it's

536
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,920
pretty easy to see where some of those activities are

537
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,480
coming from if you just look and again see their

538
00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:13,719
purpose is to cut you off from religion, for instance.

539
00:36:14,199 --> 00:36:18,079
And really when they say religion, they really almost always

540
00:36:18,199 --> 00:36:24,000
mean from Christianity. And so if you have a neighbor

541
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,920
who is disrupting you on Sunday mornings, then it's not

542
00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:33,519
hard to see where those activities are coming from. And

543
00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:37,159
they're coming from a real source of evil whose intent

544
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,119
is to separate you from your heavenly father.

545
00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: I think that's spot on. I do want to jump

546
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,880
back kind of what to what you said a little

547
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,719
bit back. I want to back it up a little

548
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,800
bit there. I can't help myself. I'm sorry, but uh,

549
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,000
I know. And we talked a bit about this before

550
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:02,079
we even started recording here, but you were talking about

551
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:04,840
Genesis one, two, and three and kind of that being

552
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,199
your passion right now and kind of how that's a

553
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,800
framework for scripture in general. And I kind of want

554
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,159
to get your take just because honestly, you think about it,

555
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:18,800
a lot of people you know when they go to

556
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:21,920
some people. You know, now, I never used to read

557
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,239
a lot, and now I can't put my Bible down

558
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,960
because it's it's just it's fascinates me. And I just

559
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,679
it draws me in when I get home. That's the

560
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,440
first thing I want to do. It just it draws

561
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,920
me in. But a lot of people are intimidated by

562
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,920
reading or or they just don't They can't seem to

563
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,840
get invested in something like the Bible. But we're trying

564
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,679
to help peel off and and and give them that

565
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,760
lens to show them the miraculous, the the amazing, the

566
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,000
the ultimate power of God. But if we could narrow

567
00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:53,719
it down and say, hey, just read Genesis one, two

568
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,559
and three, and and and and how would you want

569
00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:00,440
them to read that? What would you want to take

570
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:00,719
from that?

571
00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the first the first three things. I'll

572
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,760
just repeat what's in our in our model in front

573
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,800
of us, and and justin I think you've suggest it

574
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,800
would maybe make this available.

575
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,079
Speaker 2: But on the community page for the guy's listing.

576
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to say that, of course it's incomplete.

577
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,079
I'm not proposing that I know everything about God here,

578
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,239
but just some basic things that are so important for

579
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,199
them understanding the rest rest of scriptures. So if those

580
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:41,320
there are three things, uh Steve that that we talk

581
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,760
about here and and it certainly starts with God as

582
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,760
Creator and what that means, very specifically, is is that

583
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,960
God as creator is that everything was made by him.

584
00:38:55,079 --> 00:38:57,800
And if everything was made by him, then he can

585
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:03,360
claim his purpose for everything that was me But it's

586
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,280
there's another really important point to keep in mind, and

587
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,320
I think you guys delve into this a lot in

588
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,679
your podcast, which is God is not bound by time

589
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:19,559
and space. You know, time and space and matter, as

590
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:23,360
Einstein pointed out in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties

591
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:29,519
and beyond even they're all created. And so don't try

592
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:34,679
to bind God by time and space and matter. Those

593
00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:40,360
are all created things. He must by definition lie outside

594
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,000
of those things. And you know, we could spend a

595
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,840
lot of time talking about what that means in terms

596
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,880
of the universe today and the things that we're discovering.

597
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,079
And when you, as a for instance, how do you

598
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,599
apply this when I when I learn there's been a

599
00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:07,320
new discovery and astronomy, filter it through that lens. God,

600
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:13,079
our creator, lies outside of time, space and matter. And

601
00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:19,920
I'll give you a little bit of a quick illustration here.

602
00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:22,519
I mean, I think you probably hear about the term

603
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:26,519
matter and that there's all this matter planets and stars

604
00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:34,079
and dust in space well as best we know, and

605
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:36,679
these are precise measurements. By the way, these aren't this

606
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,800
is just some scientists putting the finger in the air,

607
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,760
but they precisely measure that that there's that the universe

608
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:48,800
is made up of five percent matter five percent, And

609
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,559
that's all we actually know about the universe is that

610
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:57,519
five percent of matter. But we've made some other discoveries,

611
00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:00,800
and you might have heard of the term dark matter,

612
00:41:02,159 --> 00:41:06,159
and what that is reflective of is not dark, it's invisible.

613
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,639
So we've discovered there's twenty seven percent of the universe

614
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,719
that is made up of invisible matter. And the reason

615
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,519
we call it matter is because it holds back the

616
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:26,519
universe's expansion. So if we just go along with what

617
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:29,159
the scientists say, Ben, I want to argue with you

618
00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:30,800
about the day's in.

619
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,679
Speaker 2: Gen one, it's all right, but.

620
00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:37,199
Speaker 3: Let's just go with them for a second and go Okay,

621
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:40,320
So there was a big bang, and that big bang

622
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:47,599
created this immense expansion from a dot and a point

623
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:50,400
of time and a point of matter. And what we

624
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:53,000
now know is that the universe is not only is

625
00:41:53,079 --> 00:41:56,440
not static, but it continues to expand. But it would

626
00:41:56,519 --> 00:42:03,480
expand faster if there wasn't this dark energy, dark mant matter,

627
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,199
or invisible matter, because the five percent matter that we

628
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,119
do know is not enough to keep it from expanding

629
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,800
faster and faster. However, it keeps expanding. So how does

630
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,000
that happen. Well, it happens because we've discovered quote unquote

631
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,159
sixty seven percent of the universe is made up of

632
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:30,519
invisible energy, which keeps propelling. So let me just tell

633
00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:34,000
you this. Scientists who say there cannot be a God,

634
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:36,599
we don't believe in God. There's no proof of God.

635
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:40,400
If discovered that ninety five percent of the universe is

636
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,599
made up of invisible matter and invisible energy, that they

637
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:45,400
don't know what it.

638
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: Is, and what's crazy? This brings us to this point.

639
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,320
I shared this image just a few days ago, and

640
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:54,320
that's why I had my phone out dickon trying to

641
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,760
find it. You know this, You know, dumb cave people

642
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,280
back in the Old Testament knew what science is just

643
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:09,719
learning now, you know, Isaiah knew about the universe. Expanding Isaiah,

644
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,519
chapter forty, verse two, it says it is he who

645
00:43:12,599 --> 00:43:17,039
sits above the sphere of earth its inhabitants like grasshoppers,

646
00:43:17,199 --> 00:43:21,239
who stretches the heavens.

647
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 3: Amen, I mean, and so you're pointing out justin and

648
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:28,639
there are other places to go again, Steve, back to

649
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,760
your question. So when we see things like that, and

650
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,880
then we look through the lens of a biblical worldview

651
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,679
and say we know God as creator and he lies

652
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,679
outside of the universe, then we have an answer to

653
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:51,000
that ninety five percent called the invisible stuff that's controlling

654
00:43:51,079 --> 00:43:56,679
the universe that scientists say cannot be God. Why we

655
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,519
don't know because we haven't discovered God. And now we

656
00:43:59,559 --> 00:44:05,119
go to Romans won verses nineteen and twenty, where we

657
00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:10,840
where Paul says, and what can be known about God

658
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:17,280
he has already revealed. So you know, we're not the

659
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,639
ones who are trying to discover things or discover the authors.

660
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,519
We already know the author.

661
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: And he goes on to say, so we are without excuse.

662
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 3: Amen, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So in any cases,

663
00:44:33,159 --> 00:44:36,840
the other two things there, Steve, is that God's sovereign

664
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:40,079
and what that means is once again, you know Satan.

665
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,960
We can talk about Satan and his unseen realm and

666
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:46,920
certainly the power that God has allowed him to have,

667
00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:50,679
but we see again and Job wanted too, that he

668
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:56,360
doesn't operate outside of God's sovereignty. Everything he does is

669
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,960
within God's sovereignty. We may not understand it. Remember, we

670
00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:05,079
only know what can be revealed, what can be known

671
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:08,400
about God, and there's clearly lots of things we can't

672
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,079
know at this time. And then ultimately that God is

673
00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:15,360
good and that means that anything that God is in

674
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,360
control of, he is doing it for good. And so

675
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,760
it gives us the opportunity to keep looking to see

676
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:26,800
what is God doing that is good? In what's going

677
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,159
on right now in my life. That's rue and God

678
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,559
will reveal it. He will reveal it.

679
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 5: It's like a big picture. Don't be stuck on the

680
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,760
little picture. Look at the big picture. You might be

681
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,320
suffering through something right now, but it's meant for something

682
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,119
later down the road that you can't handle unless you

683
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,519
suffered that little bit at the time. He did.

684
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:54,039
Speaker 1: That's right, and I'll always feel like a weight on you.

685
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:58,400
And it's the hard part is that the struggles and

686
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,239
things and I look back through my life and I

687
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,840
can see lots of times where you know, I did

688
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,920
things you know that we're obviously not right, and and

689
00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:08,760
the struggles or even other times when I just struggled

690
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,559
and I didn't think I should have to. But my gosh,

691
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:14,880
all those things have have have calmed, have all come

692
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,840
together for this, you know, for for now, for whatever's

693
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,840
happening right now, for us to be able to reach

694
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,239
out and help people through other through things that are

695
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,559
going through the same thing. You know that we've already

696
00:46:26,559 --> 00:46:28,840
been through and we're there to help. You know that.

697
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,519
We always talk about it. We always say iron sharpens iron. Right,

698
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,159
we're there to help other Christians through these things. We're helped,

699
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,840
We're there to help bring more people to God. But

700
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:42,920
my gosh, we have Like I said, it's it's just

701
00:46:43,159 --> 00:46:45,880
such a gift to know that even though we don't

702
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,000
understand it, God does and it's in his hands. We

703
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:49,159
don't have to worry about it.

704
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 5: And that's the main thing. You have to give it

705
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,480
to God. You do have to give it to God,

706
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:55,800
and that's you know, you have that choice. You can

707
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,599
struggle with it yourself, but he's there. He's there to

708
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:03,639
help you whenever you ask him.

709
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 3: I tried.

710
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,119
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you, Rick, I try to verbalize this

711
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,079
all the time, and you did it so much better

712
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,559
in about in about five minutes that I've tried to

713
00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:17,000
in about an hour with certain people. So I absolutely

714
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:18,519
love it. Thank you on that part.

715
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 3: Well, you know where anything that's truthful comes from. And

716
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:30,559
I could say justin that if we only built this

717
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,000
biblical foundation on those three points that God's creator, that

718
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:37,800
God's sovereign, and God is good, it would be enough

719
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,719
to understand our lives and what happens every day, and

720
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,760
how to respond in a world in which God is

721
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:51,000
in control and he is good all the time. He's good.

722
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 2: And you think that since he put it right in

723
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,760
the beginning of the book that it was kind of important.

724
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:01,599
We missed it. We skip to the end, right to

725
00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:02,280
the back.

726
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,039
Speaker 3: And so as you look at the end of chapter one,

727
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:09,440
what is it end with God looking at his creation?

728
00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:10,320
It was.

729
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:17,199
Speaker 2: Very very good. Yes on the time. Yeah, But when

730
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:19,159
he was doing all the talk about the time, space

731
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:23,159
and matter, it reminded me of Kent Hovind. I know

732
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:27,000
you're probably familiar with some of his stuff. No, he

733
00:48:27,519 --> 00:48:29,480
back in the eighties, I believe it was. He done

734
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:33,840
a lot of debates and stuff with professors and college

735
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:37,679
professors and stuff like that on creation and evolution. And

736
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,880
I'll never forget it. It's one of my favorite video

737
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,760
clips ever. And you tell it was totally eighties because

738
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,719
he had like this red almost polyester suit on and

739
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,639
the big glasses. You know, it was atrocious. But the professor,

740
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,039
you know, was belittling him talking about God, you know,

741
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:56,440
and basically I can't remember exactly, but he made a point.

742
00:48:56,519 --> 00:49:00,000
He was like, so he said, your God is is spirit,

743
00:49:00,039 --> 00:49:02,800
virtual and not made of any matter. We can't see him.

744
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:06,679
And same thing with these angels. So how many angels

745
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,440
can fit on the tip of my pen? You know?

746
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:11,679
He's like, and where does your God come from? You know,

747
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,280
where did he come from? You know? Or where did

748
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,519
he come from? And all this kind of stuff.

749
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 5: You know.

750
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,159
Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, he stood up and he was like, okay.

751
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,760
He said, first of all, he says, you're referring to

752
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,239
time space and he said matter. He says matter, time

753
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,679
space and matter. He says, my God is not limited

754
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,519
by time space or matter. He said, because if you

755
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:37,559
had time but no space, where would you put it?

756
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,280
He said, if you had space but no time, when

757
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,840
would you put it? He said. The book that I

758
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,679
ascribed to says in the beginning, there's time. He said,

759
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,199
God created the heavens. There's space and then the earth,

760
00:49:50,199 --> 00:49:52,440
and there's matter, time, space and matter. He said, it's

761
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,719
a trinity of trinity's. He said, all three must exist simultaneously.

762
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,800
He said, just as this computer and he pointed to

763
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,199
a or whatever, and he says, he said, the man

764
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,400
that designed this software is not inside there, bouncing around

765
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:07,719
fixing codes and doing things. Nose, He's outside of it.

766
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,199
The creator is outside of it. My God is outside right.

767
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 5: If y'all don't know the video, you got to look

768
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,559
it up. Yeah, I can't hold on looking Blaze the

769
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:18,400
guy pretty good.

770
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:19,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's awesome.

771
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think you know. The one point I

772
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:30,039
would also want to want to emphasize here is it

773
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:33,239
is the last thing for a Christian is to be

774
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,519
afraid of science. I'm not talking about the Doctor Fauci

775
00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:41,119
form of science, where we deny everything except what we

776
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,800
believe well and can't and can't prove. I'm talking about

777
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,519
real science, for instance, Yeah, I mean I I subscribe

778
00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:55,719
to Astronomy magazine why because they are constantly unveiling things

779
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,119
that demonstrate over and over again the truth of the

780
00:50:59,159 --> 00:51:02,599
scriptures and the fact that they don't apply them to

781
00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:09,079
the scriptures is immaterial and so but but again, you

782
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,039
just look at the evidence over and over again that

783
00:51:12,199 --> 00:51:16,920
is coming from more and more expansive science, and God's

784
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,960
revealing has revealed himself. We're just continuing to discover more

785
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,679
of it all the time. Yes, I just love that.

786
00:51:25,519 --> 00:51:27,639
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the more and more we

787
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:29,760
discover and the more and more you see as the

788
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,760
web telescope, is that the one that's up there right now,

789
00:51:34,039 --> 00:51:37,719
that the pictures and the stuff that they show us,

790
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,039
and it's like, my gosh, is God good with the

791
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:44,000
paint brush? You know what I mean. He's such an

792
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,000
amazing the stuff that He's put there to show us

793
00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:50,480
how great and amazing he is. It's such a gift

794
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:53,239
that we can see those things and see and then

795
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,559
and then honestly, it takes so much more faith to

796
00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:01,280
believe that happened by accident. Yeah, how can you not

797
00:52:01,639 --> 00:52:04,400
think that there's not a creator? After you look at

798
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,679
that and see that I mean, I can say that

799
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,119
about a tree. You can tell me a tree happened

800
00:52:10,119 --> 00:52:12,480
by accident. But you look at the heavens, look at this,

801
00:52:12,599 --> 00:52:15,880
look at space, and tell me that happened by accident.

802
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,679
And I don't know. I don't think I can help you.

803
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 2: I'm smart.

804
00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:21,079
Speaker 5: That's what you get through.

805
00:52:21,199 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 6: Yeah.

806
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 2: Creation is the biggest receipt Yeah, of God. Like its

807
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,639
systems within systems within systems. Man. And even if one

808
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:32,480
beats all the astronomical odds to come into existence, if

809
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:34,519
the other systems outside of it that it relies on,

810
00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:36,719
does it come into existence at the exact same time

811
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,280
it beats astronomical odds die?

812
00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't work. You have to have all this everything,

813
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:50,840
and you know, you say the big bang. It's like

814
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,960
a hangarnade, an explosion. You're not gonna get a Rolex

815
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,719
watch out of a hangernade, right, But.

816
00:52:58,760 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that takes good faith.

817
00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yet oak tree has seeds that plants an

818
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,760
oak tree, it's not an oak tree has a squirrel,

819
00:53:08,119 --> 00:53:12,880
which has a daisy, which has a cockroach.

820
00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: It does.

821
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 5: There's so much order to everything.

822
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,599
Speaker 1: Look back, look back through the Bible, and you look

823
00:53:20,679 --> 00:53:24,280
at even when people weren't worshiping God. They were worshiping

824
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,440
a god, whoever it might have been. Maybe it was Marduk,

825
00:53:27,559 --> 00:53:31,880
or maybe it was was Tamuz, or maybe it was

826
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,519
I mean, there's all these different you know, Anana, all

827
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:38,800
these different gods throughout time and Molac all it talks

828
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,360
about them sacrificing their children to Molac. They were always

829
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,800
worshiping a god and and and there was always something

830
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,159
they were worshiping. It's not until we started trying to

831
00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:54,519
take religion out of society that we started down this

832
00:53:54,639 --> 00:53:57,559
path of oh it, you know, guess what. Something blew

833
00:53:57,679 --> 00:54:01,000
up and then you know, this turned into this and

834
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:04,559
evolution happened, and all we started taking that out. Even

835
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,280
people back in biblical times when they didn't believe in

836
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,280
the Hebrew or the Israelite God, they still believed in

837
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,880
a god because they knew that it was bigger than them.

838
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 3: They knew it even though.

839
00:54:18,639 --> 00:54:21,119
Speaker 1: It was not the right god. A lot of times,

840
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,760
they knew it was bigger than them.

841
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,639
Speaker 5: They do something had to be there.

842
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: And then we get to the point now where we

843
00:54:27,079 --> 00:54:29,079
have taken that point, the same point when we talk

844
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:32,280
about the garden and we said, you know, the Satan's

845
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,239
deception is you will be like God's. That's what people

846
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:40,079
want to believe nowadays, is that we are the superior

847
00:54:40,199 --> 00:54:43,079
speech we are the superior of everything, so that we

848
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,159
are above that.

849
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 3: So now if we aren't.

850
00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: The ones that created us, then it has to been

851
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,840
by accident. We don't want to. People never want to

852
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,000
have responsibility for their actions, so they think about other things.

853
00:54:56,199 --> 00:54:58,360
And we talk about this, and I don't know how

854
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:02,159
much you look into some of these things, Rick, I

855
00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:06,000
really don't. But the I it drives me nuts. You know,

856
00:55:06,039 --> 00:55:08,960
you see these shows on TV, like Ancient Aliens, right,

857
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,159
and if you take that the aliens off and you

858
00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:16,000
put gods and demons and and and as instead of aliens,

859
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,000
you know what, you're pretty on point. But but if

860
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:22,840
you if you sit there and you try to try

861
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,599
to say that this is all they want to believe,

862
00:55:26,639 --> 00:55:28,920
it's something like aliens or something because they don't want

863
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,199
to have responsibility to a god. They want it to

864
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:38,079
be something where it's they don't have to have accountability

865
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:38,880
for their actions.

866
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,679
Speaker 2: And I think it's the inversion of God. That's what

867
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,639
Satan and and Lock he said it, you know, separates

868
00:55:46,639 --> 00:55:48,400
you from God so how does he do that? He

869
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,719
flips everything upside down. If you got your you know,

870
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,519
your Christian worldview glasses on, well what's the best way

871
00:55:55,559 --> 00:55:58,599
to distort the image. Well, let's fog up those glasses,

872
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:03,119
you know. I think see Lewis's book The Screwtape Letters

873
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,000
is a prime example of what we see today. I mean,

874
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,679
he did such a good job on that. It's like,

875
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,920
it's the simple little things, you know, we see as

876
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:14,400
you know, the fall of man and sin, corruption and

877
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:20,239
big things. You know, even simple as a guy cutting

878
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,400
you off in traffic and that little whisper in you

879
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:25,880
in your head, you know, just jump out and give

880
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,119
him the bird, you know, as simple as that. Or Hey,

881
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,519
make this little ad pop up with this half naked

882
00:56:31,559 --> 00:56:34,119
woman on your Facebook feed and click on that. It's

883
00:56:34,159 --> 00:56:38,480
all these little, open, little crack doors that you know

884
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,400
that leads you. It's just like, hey, come on, you know,

885
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,639
it's always the little things that we always look to

886
00:56:45,639 --> 00:56:49,440
the big but and that's what I think. It's so

887
00:56:50,199 --> 00:56:53,920
pivotal about having this Christian worldview because then once you

888
00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:56,119
have it, you can see it for what it is.

889
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:58,800
You know, you don't justify it, be like oh, you know,

890
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,840
I just you know, looked lustfully at my neighbor's wife.

891
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,280
It ain't no big deal. I didn't do nothing, you know.

892
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,760
But no, it's if you got your your right glasses on,

893
00:57:10,199 --> 00:57:12,239
you know, and see for what it is. It's a

894
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:16,639
temptation and thus separates you from God. It's a lot

895
00:57:16,679 --> 00:57:23,400
bigger than what the lie of Satan, fallen angels, whatever

896
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,159
you want to label you want to put on it.

897
00:57:25,199 --> 00:57:27,199
But it's bigger than what they're making it out to be.

898
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: But that's the lie, isn't it. It is that's the lie.

899
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:33,280
Is that it. Oh, it's no big deal. You didn't

900
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,199
do anything. It's no big deal. It's this, it's no

901
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:39,199
big you can don't touch exactly. And we go down,

902
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,639
we go down a dark road, and it's it's.

903
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 2: It's a chess game of small moves.

904
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: It is when I say the days of Noah, you know,

905
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,559
it says, you know, as in the end, it will

906
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:49,880
be like the days of Noah. And you kind of think,

907
00:57:50,119 --> 00:57:52,400
if we're not there yet, how bad were the days

908
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:57,039
of Noah? Oh my gosh, But I mean, where are

909
00:57:57,079 --> 00:57:59,519
we right now on that historical time? Is it?

910
00:57:59,559 --> 00:57:59,719
Speaker 5: You know?

911
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,119
Speaker 1: And once again there's no way to say for sure,

912
00:58:02,119 --> 00:58:05,440
but are we is it in our lifetime? Are we close?

913
00:58:05,599 --> 00:58:07,639
Is it the next generation? I mean, I know there's

914
00:58:07,679 --> 00:58:10,079
no way to say for sure, but what's your opinion

915
00:58:10,079 --> 00:58:10,679
on that matter?

916
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:18,199
Speaker 3: Well, I don't I mean, my first opinion is is

917
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:22,880
not an opinion but a fact, which is Jesus says

918
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,719
very clearly, we cannot know that we're that we are

919
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,559
not given that right, that not even he was given

920
00:58:30,639 --> 00:58:35,119
that right. And so I'll start there. But I don't

921
00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:39,440
think that keeps us from speculating exactly. And I also

922
00:58:39,559 --> 00:58:44,199
don't think yeah. And I also think that God, you know,

923
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:52,280
does part of awareness is anticipation and so but you know, there,

924
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,920
I certainly get what you're saying, Steve, I really do,

925
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,079
and I feel that. And I can't tell you how

926
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:02,159
many times in the last few years my wife and

927
00:59:02,199 --> 00:59:05,880
I have said things like, you know, I hope Jesus

928
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:10,440
is coming back soon, and you know, and that's right.

929
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:16,119
Revelation entreats us to say Marinatha comes soon or Jesus,

930
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,960
And so I think we are given to that nature

931
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,880
to think it's any time now. That's what Jesus caused

932
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,440
us to do. But I also think that if you

933
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,400
were living in Ukraine right now, that you might absolutely

934
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,679
believe what you just said. It can't get any worse,

935
00:59:33,079 --> 00:59:38,039
and can Jesus come back tonight? You know, living in America,

936
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,800
we probably are not suffering anywhere close to where we

937
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:48,159
might when not. And so I don't know when he's coming.

938
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,840
I know that he's told me I can't know, but

939
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:57,920
he didn't say I couldn't regulate, So you know, I

940
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:04,440
us think it'll be a surprise. It'll be at a

941
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:08,760
time when we are frankly more likely to be at

942
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:15,199
rest and relaxed. If you think about one of his

943
01:00:15,199 --> 01:00:22,800
his parables there that the the the really surprised guests

944
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,280
of the bridegrooms, where though they were just kind of

945
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:30,559
sitting around relaxed. And so I wonder in some ways

946
01:00:31,239 --> 01:00:34,920
if it's not so much a sign of how bad

947
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,679
things are as how relaxed we might be.

948
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:42,679
Speaker 2: Ready, A lot of people missed the second part of that.

949
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,440
You know, it says as it was in the days

950
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,840
of Noah, and if you continue, it says they were

951
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,679
eating and drinking and marrying and great point. So yeah,

952
01:00:52,719 --> 01:00:54,760
that that shows you that they weren't worried about it.

953
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:55,920
They were having a good old time.

954
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 3: That's a great point.

955
01:00:58,639 --> 01:01:01,119
Speaker 1: Is that is that just this, is that the picture

956
01:01:01,239 --> 01:01:07,239
saying that we are just we're gonna slowly kind of ill.

957
01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: They forget desensitized.

958
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but is that not exactly what we're going through

959
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,719
right now? Is not everything that we see on TV,

960
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:19,800
everything we see around us is desensitizing us to.

961
01:01:20,119 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's you're feeling.

962
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: Say, look at things. I mean, I mean you can't.

963
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:27,320
You can watch.

964
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 2: Kid yeah, child Sacrifice to Bayl just different wrapping paper.

965
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: But when I was, when I was a kid, and

966
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,199
you watch TV, right, your regular old TV show, your sitcoms,

967
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,360
Michael J. Fox and Family Ties and things like this,

968
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:45,079
Oh it's funny and it really didn't make anything too edgy.

969
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:50,159
Speaker 3: Now, Steve, I'm a lot older than that. By the way, Well.

970
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 5: We weren't gonna say anything.

971
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 3: Three my three sons comes to mind. But anyway, keep going.

972
01:01:56,079 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: No, you're good, You're good, Okay, I can go. Andy

973
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:04,039
Griffith watching don Not in Mayberry, right, you know, it

974
01:02:04,079 --> 01:02:06,280
was it was innocent, it was it was fun, it

975
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,920
was friendly. But you can't go and watch network TV

976
01:02:11,079 --> 01:02:16,239
without them pushing sex, without them pushing nudity. Without them

977
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:21,559
pushing all these different new ideas in the world that

978
01:02:21,679 --> 01:02:25,079
are are pushing more and more of this mainstream, the

979
01:02:25,159 --> 01:02:28,119
more and more the anana. When we talk about as

980
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,639
as above so below, and we talk about some of

981
01:02:31,679 --> 01:02:35,800
the god worshiped back then that we when we go

982
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:41,079
way back and when we talk about the gods they

983
01:02:41,079 --> 01:02:43,559
worship that they could believe could transform from men to

984
01:02:43,639 --> 01:02:45,719
women and all these different things. And we're back to

985
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,960
that point right now. We're back to that point where

986
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,159
we're seeing where you can just decide today, hey, you.

987
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:56,679
Speaker 6: Know whatorn that you can be a unicorn, then you

988
01:02:56,719 --> 01:03:00,360
look like a unicorn when you you can chew to

989
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,599
be whatever you want, and you can do this and

990
01:03:02,639 --> 01:03:03,159
you can do that.

991
01:03:03,559 --> 01:03:06,719
Speaker 1: And I believe again that when it says and we

992
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:11,000
look back at at at at Genesis and we when

993
01:03:11,039 --> 01:03:13,280
we look at the words of Satan there and he says,

994
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,480
or then Akash the serpent, and he says, you will

995
01:03:16,519 --> 01:03:19,119
be like God's what can gods do? Gods can choose

996
01:03:19,199 --> 01:03:22,280
to do whatever they want, Gods can be whatever they want.

997
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,840
And it's exactly what we're instilling in the younger generation

998
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,000
today more so than ever before. It is to be

999
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,239
just like that, you can be gods.

1000
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:36,239
Speaker 5: You can choose and and even on top of that,

1001
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,800
not just what they can do, it's what they don't

1002
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:40,360
have to do.

1003
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,079
Speaker 2: Well, just for the read, just for the record, we're

1004
01:03:44,119 --> 01:03:47,039
choosing what we can be. Right. My pronouns from here

1005
01:03:47,079 --> 01:03:51,559
on out are handsome when you refer to me, I

1006
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:53,840
think it's handsome. Okay, handsome, thank you.

1007
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: This is why we have a podcast that that's audio.

1008
01:03:58,159 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: Yes, hey, now, okay, Rick.

1009
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,239
Speaker 3: Well, one thing, one thing is for sure, and that's

1010
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:11,079
that God calls us as and even commanded us through

1011
01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:16,159
his son to be ready to anticipate any day now.

1012
01:04:17,679 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: And I'm ready. And as just as those apostles said soon,

1013
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:25,079
he's coming soon, we have to say that too. He's

1014
01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:28,079
coming soon, and everybody better be ready. And you know

1015
01:04:28,119 --> 01:04:32,559
what that means. That doesn't mean just have your your

1016
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:35,960
bags packed and you're ready to go. Make sure everybody

1017
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,639
you know is ready to go too, because they're not

1018
01:04:38,679 --> 01:04:41,800
going to have another chance. It's our job, that's the

1019
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,079
whole great commissions, our job to make sure we're taking

1020
01:04:44,119 --> 01:04:45,800
as many people with us as we can.

1021
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: And that's one thing that bothered me, honestly about that

1022
01:04:48,079 --> 01:04:51,679
bridegroom parable. You know, everybody hears that and they're like, oh, well,

1023
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,719
you know what I take from that is have my

1024
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,800
lamp oll full be ready to go. Honestly, when I

1025
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,320
read that, my first impression was was sadness. It was

1026
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,679
like the ones that didn't make it. I want to

1027
01:05:05,719 --> 01:05:08,239
be the one that's got my old but I got

1028
01:05:08,239 --> 01:05:10,639
some despair to give somebody else that way they can go.

1029
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:12,079
Speaker 1: I brought a whole can fall.

1030
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I got you got the Caro scene right for

1031
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:15,800
the eater over there.

1032
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 2: Sorry, Well, Rick, we really appreciate you coming on with us,

1033
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:25,639
and this has been very stimulating. I love these big

1034
01:05:25,679 --> 01:05:26,800
mind flex talks.

1035
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:27,679
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.

1036
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 5: Rick.

1037
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:29,679
Speaker 1: You're right at my alley right now, buddy. It's kind

1038
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:32,239
of the same stuff I'm diving into and it's been awesome.

1039
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 3: You well, it's been great to be with you guys. Thanks.

1040
01:05:36,239 --> 01:05:39,559
I'm thrilled with all that you're doing and love your show.

1041
01:05:40,199 --> 01:05:42,599
Speaker 2: Well, think I appreciate what We'll have you back. We'll

1042
01:05:42,719 --> 01:05:43,960
take a deep dive on time.

1043
01:05:46,559 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 3: That's another favorite subject.

1044
01:05:48,519 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: Well yeah, all right, well, guys, we thank you for

1045
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,119
tuning in and you guys keep on digging. Well.

1046
01:05:55,119 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Dig Bible Podcast. Questions, comments,

1047
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,960
or future episode ideas, We love to hear from you

1048
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,119
at the Dig four two three at gmail dot com.

1049
01:06:04,199 --> 01:06:07,639
If you enjoy our content, don't forget to share, Subscribe

1050
01:06:07,679 --> 01:06:10,519
and check out our Facebook group at the Dig Podcast,

1051
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,400
Remember you can't lean on a shovel and pray for

1052
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,079
a whole. You got a dig