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No 49 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:56.760 purchase necessary BOID. We're prohibited by LOCK eighteen plus terms 50 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:58.760 and conditions APPLA see website for details. 51 00:01:59.319 --> 00:01:59.680 Radio. 52 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:12.280 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 53 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.400 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 54 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:22.759 written about them. Gaesy, Bundy, Stahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 55 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:26.479 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 56 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:30.759 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 57 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.759 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 58 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:44.199 Good Evening. 59 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.319 Hunting a Psychopath is a fascinating first hand account of 60 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:55.439 the crimes of California's East Area rapist, original Nightstalker, couple's killer. 61 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:59.639 Detective Shelby was the first Sacramento detective to make a 62 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.919 connectction between a series of rapes that began in the 63 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.560 middle class community's East Sacramento in the late nineteen seventies. 64 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:12.199 His book details the efforts to apprehend this psychopath before 65 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:16.800 he transformed into a Southern California serial killer who preyed 66 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:20.360 upon middle class couples through a terrifying series of home 67 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:27.120 invasion murders. This particular series of crimes remains unsolved, leading 68 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:30.439 many questions about a violent predator who has been labeled 69 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.400 one of the most brazen criminals in US history and 70 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:37.719 one of the least publicized. Detective Shelby's book is fast 71 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:42.000 paced and full of investigative details. The book that we're 72 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:46.800 featuring this evening is Hunting a Psychopath, The East Area Rapist, 73 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:51.919 Original Nightstalker Investigation with my special guest, journalist and author 74 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:57.400 and detective Richard Shelby. Welcome to the program, Richard Shelby, 75 00:03:58.800 --> 00:03:59.879 Thanks glad to be here. 76 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:04.759 Thank you very much. Incredible book and. 77 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:08.759 We're going to have to get right right into this, 78 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:12.280 So let's talk about the very first thing that you 79 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:16.519 start off. You begin this book in Visalia, California, in 80 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:20.879 nineteen seventy four, where there has been a prowler dubbed 81 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:25.920 the Visilia Ransacker, who has terrorized the community for two years, 82 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:30.160 breaking and entering and peeping in the windows. So tell 83 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:35.240 us about Vasalia, California and the Vasilia Ransacker. 84 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:39.560 Well, if i Slia is south of Presno, Central California, 85 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:42.879 and their guy down there with that by say ransacker, 86 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.560 would he take a certain area always the same area 87 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.560 I believe. And he would prowl, usually on a high 88 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.920 school game night everybody's away from home, and across the 89 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:56.000 street from the hospital down after you which hospital it was, 90 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.079 but he would take the window screen off the windows 91 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:01.639 and from up on the roof. Then he would get 92 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:05.639 inside the house and oh, he would go through the 93 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.120 clothing in the drawers. He would steal men's underwear that 94 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.920 to me is a whole new one, the women's lingerie. 95 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:13.680 He would toss the side and throw it around like 96 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:15.480 here's met at her or something. I think once he 97 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.480 laid it down out on a bed. He was known 98 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.199 to take jump Jewey, but not a complete set. He 99 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:26.600 might take a part of one and leave apart. And 100 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:29.639 he was seen a few times, and usually when he 101 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:34.000 was he was talking to a phantom next to him. 102 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:38.079 Man saw him one night and the guy turned to 103 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.639 his left and said, we got to get out of here, ben, 104 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:44.720 and there's nobody there. And then I think towards the end, 105 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.519 it was in September of seventy five a girl woke 106 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:52.680 up and this creep had his hand over her mouth 107 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:56.560 and was taking her outside until she had to come 108 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:58.920 with him. When he goes out the door, her father, 109 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:02.839 Professor Snelly, here's something. He comes to the front door 110 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.160 and asks the guy where he's taking my daughter. The 111 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:09.639 suspect turned and fired twice, hit mister Professor Snelling twice, 112 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:13.000 who died at the scene. He turned in the gun 113 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:14.600 in the girl's face and then he pulled the back 114 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:16.839 and kicked her in the face in the left. That 115 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:21.639 was in September. Then in the following December, the was 116 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.199 the sergeant Vaughn and especially Age McGowan was taking out 117 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:27.079 the neighborhood and there with the guy in prowling, here's 118 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:31.040 no question about that, and especially at McGowan heard him 119 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.240 walk by the down the sidewalk from where he was hiding. 120 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:35.920 So he walked up when the guy and the guy 121 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.560 was standing looking in the window of the house. My 122 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:41.519 gallant pulled his gun, held the light up, told the 123 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:44.959 guy to turn around whatever it was, and the suspect 124 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:47.319 turn looked at him. He pulled his hat off his 125 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:49.600 head with the right hand, based in his left pocket 126 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.959 with his left hand. While it was kind of squeaking, 127 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:54.600 don't hurt me, donor hurt me, pull out of gun. 128 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.639 He fired, went round at the officer. He went dead. 129 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:00.000 Sit her down the line of the flashlight right down 130 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:03.279 to the center of the batteries, and then they brought 131 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:05.480 in the dogs and everybody else. They figured out later 132 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:07.519 not the guy just walked across the highway by the 133 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:09.399 hospital was put here in Washington while they were looking 134 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:13.000 for him. And then they had the bad learned all 135 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.319 this was. They went to a criminal profiler, the only 136 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.639 one who had any real interest in who said the 137 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:25.399 suspect worked to the utility company and he probably moved. Well, 138 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.279 we'd move from from there soon. Well, two days after 139 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.439 the shooting, the utility company employee requested a transfer up 140 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:35.360 by Sacramento, and so they came up here and asked, 141 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:37.879 and I met them. They came up to Sacramento to 142 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:40.759 tell us what they had and check on ani rapist reports, 143 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:42.439 and then they wanted somebody to go to them to 144 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.399 the town of Davis, fifteen miles away and confront the 145 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.079 suspect of there's this potential suspect, which is what we did. 146 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:56.959 Now before this, there is a controversy that well that 147 00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:59.240 happens around the same time as well, that there's a 148 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:02.560 reports of an early bird rapist and early morning rapist. 149 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:06.399 So briefly go into that and how this plays into 150 00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:10.160 this East area rapist, the very very beginning before anybody 151 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:12.120 makes any kind of connections. 152 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:16.079 Okay, or the early very rapist. He started in about 153 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:19.680 nineteen seventy seventy one, I don't know exactly, was right 154 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:23.600 in there somewhere, and while he was active, he committed 155 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:28.519 forty one rights and he would confront the women in there, 156 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:30.680 used to in their apartment. I don't think he went 157 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:32.840 in many houses this along now, I can't this year, 158 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:36.399 and then pretty soon we kind of thought maybe there 159 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.080 was a copycat from back up a little bit. He's 160 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:44.759 doing this kind of stuff we're talking about. In February fourth, 161 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:49.480 February fourth, nineteen seventy six, he was a man was 162 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:52.159 seen by a book well. He came in, tried to 163 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.279 attack the woman and her daughter. They beat him off. 164 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:57.279 He came back looking for a medallion, and he stood 165 00:08:57.360 --> 00:08:59.879 right by a lighted lamp, and the girl saw him too. 166 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:01.840 For the results, you got a good look at him. 167 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:05.519 And by chance, a band parked across the field near 168 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.360 their house was seen by a citizen who walked up 169 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:10.840 and looked at and put down the license late called 170 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:12.960 it in. Two officers came up walked around and looked 171 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:15.639 at it and wrote it down, and then the way 172 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:17.799 he checked it back and came to this carpet layer 173 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:23.600 out of Pollock Pines, California. Well, February sixth, seventy six, 174 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:26.799 as I had promoted inspector, there was in my office. 175 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:31.440 A month or so after that, Carold Daily, Detective Daily, 176 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.720 walked in and dropped his hustack reports on my desk 177 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:38.080 and said, have fun. Captain Thumb said you have you these? 178 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:40.039 So I got into him as I goot out all 179 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:43.240 this information. Well, we know he was the guy. We 180 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:45.480 know this guy was Theredeburg rapist. We also figured out 181 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:48.960 he had a copycat who was his father. Was well 182 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:53.519 known in the local media circles and were focused on him, 183 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:55.240 and he packed up and he left and he went 184 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:58.639 to Montana and he just barely skated out of here. 185 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:03.000 The copycat. It was zero evidence, absolutely nothing. I became 186 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:05.559 interested in him because he was interested in the raps 187 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.639 or gave him polygraph which he flunked. Well. Then in 188 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:12.120 June there's the first attack, first known attack by these 189 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.159 day rapists. Nobody connected it, and we go along until 190 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:19.200 the following October when I got into it, and then 191 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:23.240 I kind of picked up, there's probably another serial rapist going. 192 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:23.399 Guy. 193 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.080 I knew it wasn't the same guy, and I think 194 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.279 it was in uh after the assault number seven assault November. 195 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:32.960 I told Lieutenant Route, the executive officer, and detectives, we 196 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:34.879 had another one going. Then he kind of spread the word. 197 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.120 Pretty soon just everybody in both departments, county and city 198 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.639 were saying, well, they're the same guy. I'm telling you 199 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.679 they're not. They were even the same size, nothing about 200 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.279 him as the same. Somewhere along the line, somebody kind 201 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.080 of figured it out, and all of a sudden we 202 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.320 forgot about the thirty bird rapists and started focusing on 203 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:54.440 this hysterio rapists. 204 00:10:56.039 --> 00:11:00.240 Now, let's let's talk about the October fifth, nineteen seventy 205 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:04.279 six assault, because it's very telling because it sets up 206 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.360 as mo O and that's, of course, is repetitious m 207 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:12.039 that you're able to make these connections, especially you earlier 208 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:15.320 on than anyone else. So tell us about jan Cooper, 209 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:19.320 she's a nurse, and again tell us about what Again. 210 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:21.320 You're always trying to look for some kind of connections 211 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:25.080 between a victim, but in this first one, you get 212 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.480 all together the information and she's a nurse and as 213 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:32.159 a reserve lieutenant, and there was crank phone call. 214 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:33.840 So tell us a little bit about. 215 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:38.440 Before we describe the exact assault itself, tell us a 216 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:41.440 little bit about what happened beforehand, which again is going 217 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:42.639 to be important in this story. 218 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:46.720 Yeah, she she hasn't came home one day and they 219 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.039 found that somebody had been in her house. I forget 220 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.919 exactly how now. I just read reports the other day 221 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:55.159 and there was some julia there that didn't belong to them, 222 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.399 and they lost and he called the sheriff's department, and 223 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:01.320 I think by figured out the bad guy came in 224 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.120 through the bedroom window, which is back in the house, 225 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:06.519 their little boys room. He was about three. So Jan 226 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:10.559 and her husband did the investigation their own. They went 227 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:12.759 over the fence and there's a field behind their house 228 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:15.080 and they walked across it and they found the black 229 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.279 sox that belonged to her husband. The guy used it 230 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:20.720 for a glove. I'm sure. Well, then they go home. 231 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.519 It's about a week later. Ecause think the guy comes 232 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:27.879 in and she's assaulted. And then I got there and 233 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.080 patrolman had been there. They've done it. What to call 234 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:32.639 the neighborhood canvas. They walked around, talked to all the neighbors, 235 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:35.360 and I only talked to a few of them that time. 236 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.120 And we started putting everything together. And when I figured 237 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:41.679 out real fast, was this guy knew that area better 238 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:46.480 than the neighbors did. Several people had they thought somebody 239 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:48.600 was in the house, couldn't be sure, or somebody was 240 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:50.879 and they might have taken some jewelry and left somebody 241 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:53.519 else's jewelry. They weren't read through and they were getting 242 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:55.639 hang up phone calls, just like Jan got a couple 243 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.919 one of them. They threatened her husband and then they 244 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:02.399 stopped and she's assault. And then when the guy made 245 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.080 his escape after the assault, he went across that same field, 246 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:08.279 a little short street called shadow Brook, and there's two 247 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:12.639 houses on the west side, introduced parks in front, and 248 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:14.440 the witnesses saw the car at a certain time. What 249 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:18.240 boiled down to was he had the timing perfect. His 250 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.200 car was there. They just happened to see it because 251 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:23.279 they brought up garbage. Can't hurry that day. And then 252 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:25.120 he left before they came out to go to work, 253 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:26.679 because when they came out, the car was gone. He 254 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:28.639 had it right then. I was convanced right then that 255 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:32.200 this guy somehow I picked that neighborhood and he really 256 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.840 focused on chan. I didn't know if it was aerial 257 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:38.039 rapist or not, but having just within weeks finished that one, 258 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.799 I was kind of keyt on it looking for something 259 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:41.279 like that. 260 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.399 Now, if you don't mind, what he says is that 261 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:48.399 this is part of his pattern as we see. What 262 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:51.159 we will see is that he tells her, you know, 263 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.440 shut up. All I want is your money. I won't 264 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.360 hurt you. I have a knife, and then he lays 265 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.480 the knife blade against her body just slightly, I guess. 266 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.960 And then part of the mL too is he he 267 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:07.120 has shoelaces and he ties him, ties her very very tight. 268 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.879 And the knot used is very interesting too. And you 269 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.200 can tell us about this investigation if you could about 270 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.120 the kind of knot was very unusual. It's called the 271 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.080 diamond knot used in nautical or or with horses. 272 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:23.080 So in decoration. Yeah, yeah, it is. He didn't use 273 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.519 that every time. Sometimes he used for three kids and knots. 274 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:27.600 I couldn't tell one from the edit. The p id 275 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:30.320 tech that they call him CSI. Now they looked him 276 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.480 up in books and figured out what they were, but 277 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.399 he brought the shoes things with him. He tied him 278 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.159 really really tight, I mean tight. Her hands were turning 279 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:41.399 black and then shoelace has been off her hands. There 280 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:43.240 risks for I don't know half pop time. I got 281 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.639 there and they were still discolored and their wrists were 282 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.000 all red, red lines. But she said that he said 283 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.559 shut up out. He did it fifty times. He'd asked 284 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.840 her question to tell her to shut up getting roking. 285 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:57.720 She first when he first came in, he told her, 286 00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:59.159 you know, don't worry, I just munch your money and 287 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.200 all that. And once he knows he can't get up 288 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:04.320 and beat him up, she's all tied, and he goes 289 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.120 ahead and starts his threat impair rises to her as 290 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.360 much as he can, and he establishes a pattern right 291 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:13.720 there that occurs literally every crime. He heads in the 292 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.440 kitchen and gets something to eat. I don't know you 293 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.440 know anything about psychology, but he's sure got to hang 294 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.000 up because he has to eat every time. 295 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:22.120 Yeah. 296 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:27.200 Now he gags her and blindfolds her as well. And 297 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.720 then if you can tell us what he says. And again, 298 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:34.840 part of his mo that continues is regarding his penis. Oh, 299 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:35.960 he like what he says. 300 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.840 He puts it changes the wording each time in exactly 301 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:40.440 wording right now. I can't man for sure, but he 302 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.200 puts the low sit on himself. And then he tells you, 303 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:45.919 you know, play with it. Let me do this, or 304 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:47.799 I'm gonna kill you, or put that kind of stuff 305 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.360 and go ahead and play with us. Sometimes he makes 306 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:51.919 he makes her call his penis various names if he 307 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.919 can't try to make it what I guess he considers dirty. 308 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:56.840 He does it every dctrum. 309 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:00.519 And he also says to her as well that he 310 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.080 had seen her at the officers club at the mccollin 311 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.519 Air Force Base, which where her husband or captain husband 312 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:15.799 was stationed. And okay, yes, and so, but there was 313 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.480 an accidental cut then he made with this knife. And 314 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:22.679 again part of this is typical with him. But you 315 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:26.200 didn't think it was initial your initial thought about that 316 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:28.080 accidental cut. 317 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.399 She told me he did it accidentally. I looked at that, 318 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.000 and somehow we figured out he had a serrated knife 319 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:36.720 blade and it was kind of like a you know, 320 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:38.799 maybe an hitch wie or something like somebody here was 321 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.360 sandpaper and nobody did an accidental cut, he scraped, And 322 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.159 I told her then and I said, I don't think 323 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:46.799 there was an accident. I think he really wanted her 324 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:49.759 units controlling it. And I still think that, and that's 325 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:51.720 just a gut reaction. I don't have any real facts 326 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:54.519 of going on it. And she disputed the time. In fact, 327 00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:56.279 I had lunch with her here a few months ago, 328 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.799 and she still thinks it was an accident, but I don't, 329 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:01.799 and he does. 330 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:03.759 And what did you what did you think you were 331 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.160 you were dealing with when when you saw that? 332 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.240 Well, I have a total of two courses to college 333 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.400 courses in psychology. I don't really know what I'm talking about. 334 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:16.240 Later on we start to make because professional psychologists work 335 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.799 consulted on this, and they came up with all these 336 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.880 good terms about homosexual something or other. I don't know 337 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.799 the reports. And I kind of think he had a 338 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.720 real hatred or deep deep anger, which I guess is 339 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.880 hatred towards women and women mostly made them too, but 340 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.880 mostly mostly women. And I also figured this guy was 341 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.440 a whip and they could probably whip his butt, they 342 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:42.359 could get a free, fair shot at him. And later 343 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.279 on that turns out what some of the girls said, 344 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:46.359 give me a fair chance I can take him. 345 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.319 Now, what was the sorry, what was the description of 346 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.400 the perpetrator? Height and relative weight and age? 347 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.799 Okay, she put him at five foot nine, and I 348 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:01.160 think she said he is around thirty year a little older. 349 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:04.160 What I noticed in the vast majority of the victims 350 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:08.000 I find is interesting. I always put his age. Typically 351 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.359 they would put his age a little older than themselves. 352 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.799 They didn't know. They didn't begin to say he's thirty 353 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:16.279 five or forty. Some would say, oh, he was eighteen, 354 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:18.960 twenty years old. That kind of thing. He just did. 355 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.240 Always put a little and then the height. I would 356 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.599 say he was probably five foot nine. The high estimates 357 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:27.440 varied from about five foot six or seven to six 358 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:32.039 foot or more, but some of the victims had reference points. 359 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:34.920 In this particular case, Dan saw her husband standing in 360 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.400 the hallway. Wherefore she first saw this guy, and he's 361 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.119 five foot ten. She looked at that and she think 362 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.400 it five to nine. And I talked to a couple 363 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:46.119 leathers said he's no more than five to nine. Who 364 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.079 won a certainly a five seven. I talked to the 365 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.480 guy who saw him walking out by the backyard one night, 366 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:54.480 and he kept saying This guy's no taller than not 367 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:56.519 as tall as that fence. I don't like saying that. 368 00:18:57.480 --> 00:18:59.920 So he's about five foot nine, one hundred and fifty 369 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.160 sixty five pounds. And apparently he could clear a fis, 370 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.680 you know, like leap and call buildings. He could just 371 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:06.400 go right over there. 372 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:14.319 Did you think this was a crime of opportunity? 373 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.519 No, not for a second, I don't think. 374 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.599 And why is that? Well, he knew, he. 375 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:22.680 Knew the area so well, and he'd been in those 376 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.160 houses before. He was right there at her backyard. Are 377 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.440 probably in the house waiting till her husband left. He 378 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.279 left six or whatever it was, And as soon as 379 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:32.359 he was gone, that car, son of that car was gone. 380 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:34.640 That guy was out of the bedroom and into Jan's 381 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:37.400 bedroom and you know, scaring her and her little boy 382 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:37.960 half to death. 383 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.160 Were there other phone calls made to neighbors? I know 384 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:45.720 there was a phone call made to her. But where 385 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:47.799 there phone calls made to neighbors crank. 386 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:48.240 Calls at all? 387 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:48.880 Yes? 388 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:49.599 There was. 389 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:51.519 That's interesting. 390 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.640 Now you say early on over the next or the 391 00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:00.240 first five months of the investigation, you think that in 392 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.599 terms of the planning of this rapist, that it's not 393 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.359 that extensive. But then you say that suddenly that he 394 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.559 seems to be putting a lot more pre planning into that. 395 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:13.400 Tell us a little bit of why you thought that 396 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:14.799 and what made you think that. 397 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.559 Well, as it all comes together, you know what starts out. 398 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:20.200 I knew he could see that he planned this one. 399 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:22.519 There's no question in my mind about that. And then 400 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.359 we started talking to the first ed to go back, 401 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.000 and I had to find the other reports. Nobody talked 402 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.119 about it. There's no system going on that office. You 403 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:33.759 could spread the word, and I figured out there there 404 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:35.519 been more, and I was pretty sure it was him, 405 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:37.599 and some of the stuff I could research, so I couldn't. 406 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:41.720 As we started getting it done, I started noticing certain patterns, 407 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:44.720 and in fact, we need to notice more patterns, just recently, 408 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.240 just in the last few weeks. But this guy would 409 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.160 pick a neighborhood, naturally, have your escape routs, your thoroughfare 410 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:56.480 somewhere nearby. He preferred a green belt area around Ratcha 411 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:58.720 Madually that part of Sacramento, you have a lot of 412 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:01.720 old drain ditches that are now allowing to seem men. 413 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:04.720 He can just walk down those things. He liked the 414 00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:08.720 school nearby and shrubby and so forth, and the the 415 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.680 thing between him and by say a ransackers. They stayed 416 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.359 close to the shrubs and if they walked across the 417 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.519 front yard, just stay up against the shrubs. He wouldn't 418 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:18.680 stay out in the middle like that. Well ordinary, and 419 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:20.839 sometimes he was seen just walking down the street. We 420 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.880 think it was him, We don't know, but he's doing this. 421 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:28.279 And then eventually figured out how he found his wherever 422 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.759 he how he selected his victims. He would figure out 423 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.200 whether they're living, and he would go there and he 424 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.000 would prowl that area, and while he was at it, 425 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:40.359 he picked up alternate victims so he could assault somebody tonight, 426 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:43.480 come back in the month, two months and he'd sawt 427 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.119 somebody else, and he wouldn't come back to that area. 428 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.880 The only time he stayed within even a reasonable area 429 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.680 in one area was in rancher Podopa, and I didn't 430 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:55.319 know at the time, but he had already had two 431 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.160 assaults over there, and they were probably off the top 432 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:01.319 of my head, I'd say seventy eight blocks apart, maybe 433 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.079 a little more. But all these places had they had 434 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.039 illegal issues in your house, some didn't have. Some found 435 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:11.440 screens off. Sometimes you find a door open, and they 436 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:13.440 would very off and find something in the house had 437 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.279 been moved. Somebody was here, but they couldn't be certain, 438 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.799 but they'd find something was moved, or did find some 439 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:20.960 jewelry that wasn't there, there was gone. They find a 440 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.640 gun that was unloaded. So he's moved around. Later on, 441 00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.799 much later, he started coming in early and leaving stuff 442 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:28.119 like her. 443 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:32.119 With the Lucky Landslots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 444 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.799 It's your captain speaking. 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It's a thing. And now 457 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.240 the truth is out there, I can tell you about 458 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:11.279 my favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino. They have 459 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.079 hundreds of social casino style games to choose from, with 460 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:16.920 new games released each week. You can play for free 461 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.200 anytime anywhere, and each day brings a new chance to 462 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.440 collect daily bonuses. So join me and the fun. Sign 463 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.039 up now at chumbacasino dot com. 464 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.039 No, we're not necessarily Daly repod where everybody lost in 465 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.720 terms of conditions eighteen plus Christian. 466 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.400 He wasn't doing that that we know of, but I 467 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.279 was working the case. I didn't start until he was 468 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:40.160 over in Contra Costa County and the calls. 469 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:44.079 Of course, Now before we get too far into this, 470 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:48.160 we've got to explain this context anyway that policing at 471 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:54.200 this time, investigations and things like Cereal rape and serial homicide. 472 00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.680 So tell us what the state of the Sacramento Sheriff's 473 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.799 Department was in terms of you said it was in 474 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:06.000 the midst of an evolution, in terms of strategy, in 475 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:10.039 terms of organization, So tell us about what state it 476 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.119 was in in practical terms. 477 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:14.960 When I got there, I was in my twenties and 478 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.759 I was fresh out of college, and there's a lot 479 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.240 of these old guys. They used to hire them for 480 00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:23.200 their strength and brute strength, I guess, because they figured 481 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.920 they were always getting in fights. And they had what 482 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.039 they call the Delta area. This goes down far as Stockton, 483 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.759 I guess, and the deputies weren't allowed to go there. 484 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:35.799 Either the shaff or the undershare could take a deputy 485 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.720 with him. You stayed out of there. From the thirties forties, 486 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:41.400 probably in the early fifties, it was as corrupt as 487 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.319 you could get. Somebody went down there. But then they 488 00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:46.319 started changing in the late fifties for a lot of this, 489 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:47.960 I'm being told by the guys that were there at 490 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.720 the time. And then a sheriff called John Missed, the 491 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.920 Big John. Everybody afraid to him. He took over and 492 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.000 he started changing things around a little bit. But we 493 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:58.279 were still the same way. If somebody the case came in, 494 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:00.880 you know, they finding their sk left, they knew somebody 495 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:02.359 knew how to hand let it. Just find the near 496 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.079 sky and say you got the short straw. They could 497 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:06.839 and go. And there was no real official training or 498 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:11.599 anything else. In fact, the detective or patrol commander could 499 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:13.319 go to the bar and sit there all night, and 500 00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.640 they was needed to come get him. Wayne Low came in, 501 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.240 took over. He immediately started changing the entire structure to 502 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.440 match up the one in a book by Old W. 503 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.759 Wilson's old textbook Chief Deputies, that kind of stuff. And 504 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.480 he was doing really good, but there was still that 505 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:35.119 internal non physical, non material system going on. So she 506 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:39.240 got a case investigation. WOUN worked and whatever it was. 507 00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.119 You might come back and hey, guess what I did today. 508 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.079 You talk about it, says gone, Nobody says anything more 509 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:47.960 about it. And so when that started. But back of 510 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.519 this little bit, give you an idea. When I first 511 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:52.480 got that office first time in Detective seventy two, I 512 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:55.720 got into the department armory. They had two Thompson sub 513 00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:00.880 machine guns. But anyway, getting off the track there, Uh 514 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:03.400 so I started looking and I just started talking to people, 515 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:06.319 that is her about any cases like this. They say yes, 516 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:08.279 So it was something like that. So I go talk 517 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:12.640 to them. The fucking sergeant Bevans and technic cousin, and 518 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:16.960 both had a case, Pusan's case. The guy knew beforehand 519 00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.119 wherevers going. Who's going to assault Bevans? He probably didn't. 520 00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:23.640 It was probably a primate opportunity, as we figured out 521 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.799 starting in and later that whole area right in there 522 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.039 hid been just saturated with Prouder pulls, and they're most 523 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:35.319 always described as a teenager, teenager or very very early twenties. 524 00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:35.960 Hevery time. 525 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.960 Now we have the two sisters who run into this guy, 526 00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:46.160 and one cooperates somewhat or is subdued quite easily, and 527 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:49.559 the other teenager doesn't cooperate and does exactly what this 528 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.200 guy doesn't want her to do in fights. And so 529 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.720 we see the first not the first, but very established 530 00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.720 his mo of speaking through clenched teeth. Yeah, so tell 531 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.200 us a little bit about what he does with these 532 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.240 two girls that obviously affects what he does next, but 533 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:09.240 tell us some of the things that are established there 534 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:10.039 in terms of m O. 535 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.759 No, Okay, he goes in there, and he sneaks in, 536 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:15.640 and he wakes the one up, and she can't turn over. 537 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.279 He always whispers through clenched teeth, you don't look at me, 538 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:20.559 turn around, I'm going to cut you open, to kill you, 539 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:22.880 or something like that, and then he ties her up 540 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.079 super tight and gags he and he goes into the house, 541 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.599 parts of the house, hill a ransack a little bit, 542 00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:30.160 and then come back, it'll be a two minutes. He 543 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.039 comes in to check on his victims. In this case, 544 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:34.799 I think he checked on her once or twice. Then 545 00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:37.240 he went next door and he woke up her sister, 546 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.000 and her sister is gonna whip him. She came out 547 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.200 of the bed and hit him first thing, and then 548 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.119 he chased her down the hallway, and probably she faced 549 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:46.640 him down. She could have beat him, but they went 550 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:47.960 down the hall when he stopping on her and he 551 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.799 finally got her all tied up. He sets the assaulted 552 00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:53.240 to one sister but not the other one. But all 553 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.039 during his time he's saying, you know, like the first sister, 554 00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:59.079 that what he didn't assault, didn't I meet you with 555 00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:01.160 the prom or something about the prom and her prom 556 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:04.960 picking right there on on her counter. And he goes 557 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:08.200 in that and ransacks the house. And most of these 558 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.359 crimes you can hear him putting something in the paper 559 00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:12.400 bag or taking it out. We never figured out what 560 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:14.839 he was putting in that paper bag, laid that bag 561 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:17.359 changes to something else. It's a cloth bag and the 562 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:21.079 canvas bag, and it just keeps changing all the time. 563 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:25.119 But when they got when they came in to investigate 564 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:29.480 the girls got loose the telephone wires coming to the house. 565 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:31.680 He'd put a flower pot or something down there and 566 00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:34.720 got up tried to cut him. And what he did 567 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.599 is he took off the insulation. We all thought at 568 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.279 first clumpy. I thought later, No, he isn't. He's using 569 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:44.079 the outigator clips. He's tapping into that telephone lines so 570 00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:46.880 he can listen in any conversation going on. Who knows 571 00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:48.839 when he did. That could have been that night. I 572 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:53.759 don't know who was asking about the doctor's drugs. These 573 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:56.599 girls had a doctor under their father was a cardiac surgeon, 574 00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:02.960 So I think that was the forth the salt was. Actually, no, 575 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.559 it wasn't before the fifth, but I knew him at 576 00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:07.599 that point. Two of the victims like for him. Two 577 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:10.680 of the victims they had some sort of connection with 578 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:16.160 the medical Yeah, yeah, they were the They were the 579 00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:20.279 second one. That's what it was. Yeah. 580 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.720 Now part of the other thing, part of the m 581 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:25.799 O two. Another strange thing. Not only does he go 582 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:29.519 into the kitchen to eat and ransacks and searches all 583 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.359 over their apartments of their homes, then returns, like you say, 584 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:36.400 every few minutes to make sure that they're still tied up. 585 00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:39.599 Very very tight. He also. 586 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:44.160 Starts drinking cores beer, bringing a couple at least two 587 00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:45.279 cores beer with him. 588 00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.799 Yeah, almost every scene, and not all of them, you'll 589 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.880 find two, sometimes three cans of some beverage that he drink, 590 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.079 and sometimes he brings it with him. And later on 591 00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.799 there's in assault where the guy seen by himself, he's 592 00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.880 had naked, no bags, and after the assault they find 593 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:05.680 I think it was two beer cans outside the house, 594 00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:07.960 you know, so I don't you know, we never explained 595 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.240 that one away either, but he does. 596 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:14.480 Sorry, go ahead, No, that's right. 597 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.160 The part of it is, too, is that through all 598 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:20.599 of these, as we'll the audience will see, is that 599 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:23.640 there is a description of a homemade mask. So tell 600 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.599 us about this mask what it made look like for 601 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:28.359 those just listening. 602 00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:33.000 Okay, there, every mask is different. The uh, the first 603 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:36.799 one I think on the in jan you were talking 604 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.920 about sometimes remember what that thing was. It was a 605 00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.279 big cloth. When I think he had so many of them. 606 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.559 On one of them he used a like a Wilder's mask. 607 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:51.680 Then you have a nylon stocking. Then you had ski mask, 608 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.799 of course, all kinds of those. Then he had like 609 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:56.200 some home made mask made out of cloth, rough cut 610 00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:59.039 cloth whole. Well, we just cut the holes for the 611 00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:03.599 eyes and the mouth, usually just the eyes. And what 612 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:04.880 they were Now, I got a thing right here. It 613 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:06.079 might have it on it. 614 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:12.640 Well to say that they were not conventional masks. Again, 615 00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:14.319 you say one was a welder mass. So there was 616 00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:16.480 some sort of There was a variance in all of 617 00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:19.359 the masks, it seemed, in terms of color and description. 618 00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:23.319 But it wasn't one particular type mask used all the time. 619 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:26.759 No, every one of the was different. It's like he 620 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.920 saved the soupernir someplace. Now Betty still has all of them. No, 621 00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:33.160 they were never the same summer sche masks, and they 622 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:34.839 were just normal, but many of them were not. 623 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:41.359 Now what was the pardon me? 624 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.440 Was there any connection that you saw at that time 625 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:50.279 about homes for sale or under construction in area? 626 00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:52.440 There was the first thing I noticed. I don't know 627 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.200 why I did. The first thing I saw we pulled 628 00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.880 up in friend of Jan's house across the street was 629 00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.640 the ridden like real Estate Science entry twenty one. They 630 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.960 were all over State of California, State of California. At 631 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.319 that time, I thought it was a lotless crowded. I 632 00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:07.920 figured out later that most of the towns and putting 633 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:12.039 San Francisco were really just big caltowns. But every place, 634 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:16.359 every victim in Sacramento and there's I could figure most, 635 00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:19.000 if not all, outside of Sacramento, like country, across the 636 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.079 county and those places. Every one of them the house 637 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:27.440 with yourself occurred, was had just been sold, just been rented, 638 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:31.200 I was up for sale, or was next door or 639 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.640 right across the street from one, and one had just built. 640 00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:36.400 Every one of them was that way when you go 641 00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.119 down to southern California. I think it continues, but I 642 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:43.160 don't have enough information to confirm that. And the people 643 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.279 that investigated the ones up here when he went he 644 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:48.240 moved out, they didn't know enough about his mot even 645 00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:51.799 asked those questions that I started looking. And the real 646 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:54.559 estate and the telephone were two things that turned up 647 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:57.559 again and again and again, and at first devices don't 648 00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.160 forget it, they're all overwhell they were. Pretty soon they 649 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.319 figured out there really was a connection there. Jan's house 650 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:07.079 that was across the street was one for sale, the 651 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.359 one on Marlborough, the two sisters, I'm not sure because 652 00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:13.799 I didn't go up there and look, and the one 653 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.920 where the blutw was assalted at her garage. I don't 654 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:21.000 know that one either, but I'm willing to back because 655 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.319 everybody up your head places for sale at the time. 656 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:25.680 I know the victim. 657 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:28.720 I think Christy was the one where there was a 658 00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:30.279 for sale sign across the street. 659 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:33.880 What street did they have that these. 660 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:37.160 Well, I can't give you that. 661 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:41.880 I can't give you that much anyway, Yeah, they all did, Christy. 662 00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:43.400 I think what you're talking about is when I went 663 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.359 over here and I saw the house and show I 664 00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.319 walked inside and there's a laundry room and you could 665 00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:51.119 sit right there in the dust and see the guy's 666 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.440 prints and a cigarette butts straight across the street. You 667 00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:56.480 can watch the house where she was living at the time. 668 00:33:58.599 --> 00:33:59.720 Now at this time too. 669 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:03.240 I mean, you really don't talk about the pressure to 670 00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:04.519 make any kinds of arrest. 671 00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:05.559 This is the first time. 672 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.519 I guess maybe that's more fictional than than you know 673 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:13.159 the rule, But you do talk about copycats and that potential, 674 00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:17.119 and that must be a frightening possibility that somebody's copying 675 00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:20.159 the killer that you can't or the serial rapist that 676 00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:21.000 you can't catch. 677 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:23.440 As it seems that the things are. 678 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:28.199 Escalating so tell us about how one suspect surface is 679 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.760 named Dorcas and why Dorcas. 680 00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:36.559 The gal's a bit asleep. She wakes up and there's 681 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:39.320 a guy standing half naked by the door. He asked 682 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:43.079 his intention is and goes ahead and assulter and say emo, 683 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.159 and after heylee. If she can't get ties, she has 684 00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:48.960 to lay there for two hours before a friend finds 685 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:55.519 here's me. And then while gating authors there, the neighbor 686 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:58.119 walks into the house. It says he thinks he's been 687 00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.760 burgerized some jewelry in his house that's not his. Well, 688 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.800 the officer the second report had no clue what to 689 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:07.880 ask about these kind of questions because she was like 690 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:11.679 the first or second one, I think first one, and 691 00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:13.800 so he didn't know what to ask. So Dorcas he's 692 00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:15.599 wandering around and trying to those around and look at 693 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:18.760 the entire crime scene. Finally the officer had to kick 694 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:20.559 him out of the house. And it turns out Dorcast 695 00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:24.480 is right straight across the behind her backyard. You can 696 00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:26.679 look out his window and there's no fancy look out 697 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:29.840 a window, look straight into her bedroom window. Because she 698 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.719 never kept the coverage. She just had a big plant 699 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.800 and thought that would do that'd be just good enough. 700 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.920 So I mean here he introduced himself, made up the 701 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:39.679 story that the cop couldn't believe, and he's sitting right here, 702 00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:41.639 and he sit the physical of course, sitting right there. 703 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.599 What nobody fought to look for at that time was 704 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:47.760 the shoes. I think she said he had a square 705 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:50.639 two of black patent leather shoes. I don't know who 706 00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:53.039 wears those less the pre a tuck or something. And 707 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.159 nobody bothered to look at that guy's feet to see 708 00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:57.199 what kind of shoes he's wearing. Of course he probably 709 00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:01.239 would have changed, but that's how he became a suspect. 710 00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.239 And later on we had a dog track in the 711 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.000 suspect from a crime scene, and this Dorcas guy, who 712 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.880 was standing right here on dog roll right attention to 713 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.920 it and finally put him fly worked up an alibi 714 00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:16.400 for this guy Dorcas so and I think years later 715 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.800 they combected and got his DNA. So this there's no question. 716 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:20.800 M h. 717 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:22.519 Now you talk. 718 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.239 But pardon me, you're going to say about DNA, and it's. 719 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:31.639 Now what was the state of DNA? 720 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.360 We might as well talk about that obviously for those people. 721 00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:36.239 What was the state of DNA at that time. 722 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.360 Didn't exist as far as we knew. Yeah, in fact, 723 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:40.920 they didn't even come out until Ank It was in 724 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.920 the very early nineties, I think it was, or maybe 725 00:36:44.039 --> 00:36:47.079 just before that. He was in the eighties it came out. Yeah, 726 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:50.840 it was really difficult and really expensive what we were 727 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:52.679 using because they had nothing, they had no evidence. What 728 00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:54.519 we would do is give somebody that's chewing a piece 729 00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.079 of gauze and they would test to see if they 730 00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:00.440 were a secretor and nonsecretor certain people yea, their body 731 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.679 for us do not screete the blood type. So we 732 00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:06.639 had some five thousand suspects when we stopped working here 733 00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:10.239 southern California, and seven thousand and most of them were 734 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:13.039 eliminated on the secrete non screen for status. Well, since 735 00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:16.280 then it's been found out that you can be both. 736 00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:21.159 The guy was in court for rape and the seamen 737 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.559 taking into scene was a secretor I think could have 738 00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:27.039 been any way around. And they had this guy they 739 00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.199 tested survive and he was the opposite through the tense. 740 00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:32.119 Just drop into the said, let's try for both. So 741 00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:34.440 they did. They got doctors examples of both. It turns 742 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:36.719 out he is both a secretor and non screwen. So 743 00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.199 those five thousand suspects, they're right back on the list. Wow, 744 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:42.960 can't count. You don't know who they are. And now 745 00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.639 because somebody destroyed all the records, Jeerz. 746 00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:51.199 Now talking about connecting dots. And as this progresses, we 747 00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:55.320 have a ten year old named Ted and his mother Jenny, 748 00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:58.360 and it's two thirty in the morning and there's a 749 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.800 mass man trying to pry it the door and her 750 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.760 son sees this, runs to get her mother. His mother, 751 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.559 pardon me, and she decides to call the operator. I 752 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.719 guess weirdly enough, there's no answer, and then she tries 753 00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:14.159 to call her neighbor. So tell us what happens in 754 00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:15.320 this particular case. 755 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.400 After those two failures, he tried calling her shares department. 756 00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:21.639 In about then this guy's red around the corner confronting her. 757 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:23.800 You know the mask, if you have a kind of mask, 758 00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:27.119 he head a ski mask unless sure now anyway, he 759 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:28.800 was greeting his teeth. You know, all I want is 760 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:31.000 your money. You don't beat her at cooperate and shut 761 00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:32.599 that dog up. I'll go on here and stab that 762 00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:34.440 little boy in the back bedroom. A little boys, a 763 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.280 little girl so we know he'd never been in that 764 00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:40.119 house before. And then he tied the ten year old up. 765 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.519 What he did, he stood right there next to the lamp. 766 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:44.800 He was teared on, and a kid's pretty calm. Who's 767 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:46.960 telling me? He says. The guy had black haired, blue 768 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:48.519 eyes and hit her black hair in his arms and 769 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:50.440 the lakes. He was standing there, and he had a 770 00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:53.679 shirt and shorts, nothing else on. And he went in 771 00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:57.400 to kid his mother and living room, and he spends 772 00:38:57.639 --> 00:38:59.400 quite a bit of time assaulting her and there, and 773 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:04.199 she's pregnant by the way. But when when the we 774 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.559 called for, the guy with the tracking dog came out 775 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.559 and with the dog going backwards, what he did, he 776 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:14.000 was from this lady's house. They had to go with 777 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.480 the fence, had to go back out to the car 778 00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:18.679 in front of the neighbor's house. Then he went to 779 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.119 the neighbor's back door from backyard window and over and 780 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:23.840 back out to a big field out there. And now 781 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:26.880 the field was more than a field. It was supposed 782 00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:32.199 to be a freeway. And then Governor Jerry Brown ka Moonbeam, 783 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:34.920 he closed down the freeway and he sold it the 784 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:37.639 real estate developers. All the new houses were going in there. 785 00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:40.400 This guy driven in, parked his car back there and 786 00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.480 sounded like an American made car, and according to the 787 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.360 TRACKSI found, it probably was. And he parked it, came over, 788 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.280 went over the fence first to that neighbor's back window, 789 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:52.000 were up to the car in the front, and walked 790 00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:55.079 around and right over to this lady's house. The people 791 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:57.119 next door was a doctor and his wife, and they 792 00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.480 were out of town unexpected. I personally say that's where 793 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.119 he was headed. But he's, like I think I said 794 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:03.920 in the book, he's stressed these occasion, so he just 795 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:07.480 went shopping next door. Sure there, went in and he 796 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:11.559 assaulted her. When he salted her. Somewhere along the line, 797 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:14.599 he took his knight and he outlined the y incision 798 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:18.559 used by an autopsies on her body. You know what 799 00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:20.320 that means? That just so of these little hands here 800 00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:21.679 and there, you can go off in the direction you 801 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:25.159 want what he knew and what he didn't know. 802 00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:29.119 What's interesting, too, is you find a bent. 803 00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:34.480 Spoon exactly under the victim found it under the sofa 804 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:38.280 the next day, which he's cleaning. It was a dinnerwar 805 00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:41.360 spoon piece doing I guess I think I forgot it 806 00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:43.159 was bent right in half, wasn't a mark on it. 807 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.880 She gave it to Carroll Dailey, who gave it to me, 808 00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:48.800 And then I'm trying to figure how to follow this 809 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:52.079 thing down. But then I put a bowl be on 810 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:56.320 the lookout for the description we had. It was like 811 00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:01.280 the next day, maybe two days later, the second PD officer, 812 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:03.800 he was on some kind of call and spotted this 813 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:06.400 guy I think I called him mart Pington in there. 814 00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:10.920 He rested for something and he had a leather palace. 815 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:13.519 He got into it and there was a rock, a 816 00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:18.159 psychiatry workers thing, ice picked some other stuff and a 817 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:22.360 bent and spoon, and I personally still think he did 818 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.079 that assault, which was absolutely no way to prove it, 819 00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:28.159 no way at all, but we tracked him down. It 820 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:31.679 turns out he was a mentally disordered, disappointed sex offender 821 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:34.519 getting a thousand and forty dollars a month at tax free, 822 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.000 which at the time was pretty good. He was making 823 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.400 more than we were as a matter of fact, and 824 00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.400 didn't have to work, and he'd been arrested for a 825 00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:44.159 series of rapes in Sacramento in the sixty eight I 826 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:49.519 think it was, and his sister one of them. Called 827 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:51.039 me up to say, I know he's the guy. He 828 00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:52.920 came over and looking at his toolbox. He look us 829 00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:55.440 toolbox nothing and up her rusty tools and they're really 830 00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:58.639 rusty too. And she told me the story that he 831 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:00.039 and one of the guy and I didn't name the 832 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.840 other guy out of who it was. They decided it 833 00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:04.760 was in the sixties, ever going to murder a woman 834 00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.599 just for fun, and he had a loaded rifle. He's 835 00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:09.679 waiting around a building or something for her to come by, 836 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:11.480 and she just, for whatever reason, she didn't do it, 837 00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:15.000 so he didn't go back and try a Yet this guy, well, 838 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:17.159 he actually killed his brother with an arrow through the 839 00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:18.599 neck and he's in a taskadarrow. 840 00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:21.960 I guess you should now this art Pinkton. 841 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.880 You think you have a pretty good suspect at that time, 842 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.360 but given that you sorry. 843 00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:30.480 I was positive it was a you know, with no 844 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:31.320 real evidence. 845 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:35.559 Now, so what you're saying is that you're looking for 846 00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:38.719 this East Area rapist. I don't know if he's been 847 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:41.239 named as such as yet. But then you have this 848 00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:44.079 really good victim, You have the bent spoon, you have 849 00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:47.239 this seems like some kind of murder toolkit here. Now 850 00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:50.719 despite you looking at a toolbox that his sister directed 851 00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:54.239 you to his and his own family saying that, Yeah, 852 00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:56.440 I think he's capable of his sister's saying he's capable 853 00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:57.199 of something like this. 854 00:42:58.559 --> 00:42:59.360 What was it about. 855 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:05.280 Was there any deviant, any change from them from these 856 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.440 previous sexual assaults. 857 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:10.800 Yeah, there was no real comparison to the two of them, 858 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:14.480 not at all, But he was Nothing would deter him 859 00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:16.480 and all these other ones. If somebody's sum or something, 860 00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:18.639 he just keep going. Dear did the two. It's just 861 00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:21.639 like his abilities. He's totally focused. That's where he's going 862 00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:24.679 to go. Maybe it was a psychological kink there. I 863 00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:27.440 don't know, but that was the only real that in 864 00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.719 the tearing up towels to gag and blindfold, because when 865 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:34.360 I started investigating him, I physically put him within two 866 00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.039 blocks of two rapes in San Diego at the night 867 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:40.719 they occurred, and they were older women fifty and sixty 868 00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:44.320 maybe older. And he ripped up towels and he blindfolded 869 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:46.079 and tied and gagged all that kind of stuff that 870 00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:48.119 was all the same. There's only so many ways you 871 00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:50.960 can do these crimes, but that stuck. I know he did. 872 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.320 Though San Diego could never be connect him to him, 873 00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:56.039 but he was down aft. I put him their relatives. 874 00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:56.559 I guess. 875 00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:01.800 Wait the Lucky landslide get lucky just about anywhere. 876 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.599 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 877 00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:07.559 weather's fine, but we're just gonna circle up here a 878 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:10.880 while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. It's 879 00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:13.519 just these cash prizes add up quick. So I suggest 880 00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:15.519 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 881 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:16.679 start getting lucky. 882 00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:20.280 Play for free at lucky landslots dot com. Are you 883 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:24.119 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 884 00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.800 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 885 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:32.039 Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've 886 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:32.760 gotten lucky? 887 00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.840 Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess, ah, in 888 00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:39.079 my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have 889 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:39.559 to say? 890 00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:39.960 Yes? 891 00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:40.199 You do? 892 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:42.960 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting. 893 00:44:43.159 --> 00:44:46.559 Really yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 894 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:47.840 I never win? 895 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:49.800 And tell well, there you have it. You can get 896 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.920 lucky anywhere playing at Lucky landslots dot com. Play for 897 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.000 free right now. Are you feeling lucky? 898 00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:55.159 No? 899 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:56.880 We're not necessary, boy, were gonna be my law eighteen 900 00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:58.599 plus terms, conditions plus what's everydails? 901 00:44:59.320 --> 00:44:59.920 I know he did it. 902 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.679 Now, this woman had already planned with I guess, for 903 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.400 her husband and her family to move to Danville. And 904 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:11.360 you say that Danville tell us how far away Danville 905 00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:15.320 is from here. But also at the same time you 906 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:19.000 also throw in that in nineteen ninety one or ninety two, 907 00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:22.679 Jenny received a call and she thought he recognized the 908 00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:25.679 voice as the same person saying you know who this is. 909 00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:28.599 And you also put in there that the crime seemed 910 00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:33.039 to move or the perpetrator seems to move to Danville 911 00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:34.880 shortly after as well he does. 912 00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:37.920 She was in the process of moving already. Her husband 913 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:40.119 worked for other company, and he was out of town 914 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:42.280 and came over to get her. But a few days 915 00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:45.400 they were gone. And then see, this was in November 916 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.280 of seventy six, and I think it wasn't until really 917 00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:54.079 early in seventy seven he started striking in Danville and 918 00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.800 the other areas back over there outside of Sacramento. He 919 00:45:57.960 --> 00:45:59.800 was bouncing around all the place. Didn't night I think 920 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:02.239 to be I said ninety two, but it's probably ninety one. 921 00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:06.360 She got the phone call office next meeting. I just 922 00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:08.039 got this call, so I called her back. He says, Yeah, 923 00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:09.880 it was him. She was here with him. 924 00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:15.719 Now, tell us about further investigation of Art Painton, because 925 00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:16.639 it's very interesting. 926 00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:20.760 Somebody must have thought this was a very viable suspect. 927 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:21.639 So tell us about the. 928 00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:24.960 Full extent of how much you thought he might be 929 00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:28.880 a viable suspect and how you investigated him. 930 00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:33.000 Everybody thought he was the bad guy, and you know, 931 00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:35.639 we we checked everywhere. We tried to check his medical 932 00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:39.400 records and we couldn't get very military records through OSI 933 00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:44.000 Office Special Investigations for the Air Force, and they didn't 934 00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:46.639 never did tell us much. And we finally put two 935 00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:49.760 officers on his mother's house where he was staying. And 936 00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:52.360 I think after two or three assaults, when we knew 937 00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:55.519 where he was, then if I just dropped, considered not him. 938 00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:57.639 And eventually back when he killed his brother, they got 939 00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:01.000 his DNA and they tried to confirm it. Yeah, he 940 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:05.719 was not the Sterey rate, but they were following him 941 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:07.880 every way in the world, doing anything they could dig 942 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.039 up information on him. He was just perfect for In fact, 943 00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:14.840 they laughed at me. Kept says not the guy. I said, no, 944 00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:16.679 it's got to be here, but it wasn't. 945 00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:21.400 Right now in November nineteen seventy six is the official 946 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:26.320 creation of a task force with the Lieutenant Root and 947 00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:31.320 Sergeant Bevins Captain stam So tell us about this creation 948 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:35.320 of the task force and how involved are you and 949 00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:38.840 how committed are is everyone on this group to the 950 00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:44.199 same ideology that it's sore theory on about the perpetrator. 951 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:48.480 Well after the one where the ten year old kids 952 00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:52.480 saw the suspect, I remember saying in that patio talking 953 00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:55.519 to my two partners that they Sergeant Irwin and Caeryld Dailey, 954 00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:57.599 and I say we have this series. They disagreed. I 955 00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:01.760 listed off the points they agreed. I came in. I 956 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:03.719 told Lieutenant Route I'd worked for him in seventy two, 957 00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:05.199 and I said, you got into the rapist out here, 958 00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:07.559 so I told him. He didn't even argue. He turned 959 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:11.480 right around, went back, notified all the top level people 960 00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:13.840 down there, and then he came in a few days 961 00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:16.400 later and told me they're putting the other task force 962 00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:18.559 starts at Bevans. I wasn't very friendly in the fourth floor, 963 00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:21.840 by the way, that's all in Honcho State. Bevans was 964 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.519 going to be their lead investigator. He was going to 965 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:25.079 be the task force commander, and he wanted me to 966 00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:29.079 work with him. Then in seventy two. From nineteen seventy two, 967 00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:31.199 he had a policy that he picked up somewhere else. 968 00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:35.559 He figured a good detective doesn't need a signed case 969 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.079 to go out and you know, prevent crime. I was 970 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:41.119 supposed to go out into the scene of the crime, 971 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:43.880 figure what I could, like like Devan everybody else did, 972 00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:47.360 and then working backards trying to figure out how did 973 00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:49.880 they pick this guy here and what's going on around here? 974 00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.360 And I started doing neighborhood campuses on my own and 975 00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:55.079 finding out about the victims that I came up with 976 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:56.840 a whole lot of stuff. He did not come up 977 00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:01.119 with going the other direction, and in fact, the eventually 978 00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:04.159 I was been One night I told the group, I said, 979 00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:07.119 he's going to hit tonight up here in one of 980 00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:11.679 these three streets, and I need these five expert units. 981 00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:13.920 He had five officers and Rancher Putdoba where the guy 982 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:16.920 already hit four times, and their whole job was to 983 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.920 wander around on foot at night, and no crime occurred 984 00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:21.440 while they were there. And I said, put him up there, 985 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:23.039 and he argued with me. I finally gave me one 986 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:26.480 what are you gonna do with the one guy? So 987 00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:28.559 I sent him over to a place called thorn Wood 988 00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:31.559 Street where we were anticipating, and they had the strike 989 00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:34.079 there and we set him up over there. That night 990 00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:36.159 he hit on Merlin Dale, one of the three streets. 991 00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:39.400 In fact, when I gave a briefing to the patrol 992 00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:43.320 officers officers CHERI said to put my finger almost the 993 00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:45.800 exact spot he hit. Had I known what was going 994 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:48.760 on in that neighborhood up to that point, I could 995 00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:50.199 have told you what house he was going to hit. 996 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:52.480 But getting information out of patrol because half of them 997 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:54.800 wouldn't make a report, but they talked about it among themselves. 998 00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:59.760 They's just just like trying to interview. Oh, I don't know, 999 00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:04.320 trying to hold a handful of water. I can't do it. 1000 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.760 And then it was after that, I think it was 1001 00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:13.159 in May seventy seven. I was going through the reports, 1002 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:16.320 I handled some of them, and I came across one 1003 00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:19.079 I talked about illegal entry. Something had been moved, that's all. 1004 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.760 So I took Curtis a patrol off shoe. We just 1005 00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:25.280 got assigned to the task force. He went with me. 1006 00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.320 We went to the house and there's a one of 1007 00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:31.519 size nine nine and a half foot print testue right 1008 00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:33.519 on the wall, four or five feet off the ground, 1009 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:35.960 had a small window bite within very big at all 1010 00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:37.880 he could see. He just kind of jumped up, put 1011 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:41.159 his foot and crawled in. But nobody was home. So 1012 00:50:41.239 --> 00:50:43.400 we looked across the street. Now, this street was I 1013 00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:46.920 think it was Templeton parallel's Madison Main thorough them where 1014 00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:48.679 there was like one line of houses totlee in the 1015 00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:52.159 two streets, and then you have every roads running north 1016 00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:54.840 south off of that Templeton well, one of them was Cedarhurst, 1017 00:50:56.119 --> 00:50:58.559 and so we decided, okay, we'll check this out, and 1018 00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:01.800 so we go across the corner. He go to Agnal'll 1019 00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:03.920 take the second house in the corner, which is what 1020 00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.360 he was picking at the time, And there we find 1021 00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:10.199 a woman and her young daughter, and the dare had 1022 00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:12.199 her target and she was going to be assaulted any 1023 00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.760 time she came home many times. And the door is unlocked, 1024 00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:18.480 it's a jar. Something in the house is I think 1025 00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:20.639 a big flower pot was taken off the table and 1026 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:23.199 put them on the floor, and I can't remember what else, 1027 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:25.480 but and hang up. Phone calls has been coming and 1028 00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:27.519 they stopped about a week or two weeks before we 1029 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:30.440 showed up. Her key was outside on the floor mat. 1030 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:33.000 So we explained everything to her what we thought was 1031 00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:34.360 going on. In fact, I know what was going on. 1032 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:38.280 Then we went across the street again, a house diagonal 1033 00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:41.559 going back, and there's a tree setting there. It's about 1034 00:51:41.559 --> 00:51:44.920 fifteen twenty feet high, real heavy foil underneath that tree 1035 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:48.199 or cash, your footprints and cigarette. But nobody was home 1036 00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:49.920 at that house, by the way, so we'd go to 1037 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.559 the next door neighbor. And that's the guy that says, yeah, 1038 00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:55.519 he was not as tall as a fence. He looked 1039 00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:58.159 the window a week or two earlier, ten o'clock at night, 1040 00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.119 and he saw a guy five foot nine as blonde 1041 00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:03.360 hair walked out of that backyard and he was backyard 1042 00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:04.639 and entered the street, and he didn't know way he 1043 00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:07.800 went from there. There's no question he was going to 1044 00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:10.719 assault her. At the other end of that street, a 1045 00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:12.639 man got a new job and he had his new 1046 00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:15.480 work schedule laying there on the nightstand, and he had 1047 00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:18.599 a gun. He came home and that schedule was gone. 1048 00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:22.199 And the gun was unloaded well to lieutenants and the 1049 00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:25.280 detective vision girl excited. They were talking about that all 1050 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:28.480 over the radio. Everybody knew about it. So I told 1051 00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:31.119 sig Churse, I said, you know, this is a perfect 1052 00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:33.320 set up for a stakeout at this house. But this 1053 00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:35.920 guy's not coming back to the street. And he didn't. 1054 00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:38.639 He never came back, and that pact right after that. 1055 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.760 There's not long after that he turned up and stocked him, 1056 00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:46.679 which is what an hour's drive from Sacramento. As far 1057 00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:48.599 as I'm concerned, he was listening to us on the radio, 1058 00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:51.519 probably had a CD or went with ham right away 1059 00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:53.000 over the youth monitor. 1060 00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:56.320 It was fairly easy to monitor. Police. 1061 00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:02.119 Oh yeah, they wouldn't show that. To get to tell 1062 00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:06.599 you everything in the world, we had one where there 1063 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.719 the I s sie guy saw a fingerprint on the 1064 00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:12.920 one's wrists pure and I said, it's got to be 1065 00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:14.360 a way to get this guy's prints. So we go 1066 00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:16.400 through the crime lab. We'd tell them now, may be 1067 00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:19.639 any ideas, and they came up with a sister on 1068 00:53:19.719 --> 00:53:23.760 of what it was called for a fingerprinting any part 1069 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.360 of the humandvice been touched by somebody else and so 1070 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:31.119 we had a briefing. We told the patrol officers, particular women. 1071 00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:33.840 There's about three or four months of time I've was 1072 00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:36.079 telling all of them, don't talk about this over the air. 1073 00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:38.400 I might found out latest exactly what they did. They 1074 00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:40.920 just talked it up the store. It was like two 1075 00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:44.119 days later another assault and his gloves and never came 1076 00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:47.320 off during the entire assault. So he heard them meaning 1077 00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.760 what we were doing. He didn't have to be smart. 1078 00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:54.480 Could be some pre dumb, dumb things we did. 1079 00:53:57.079 --> 00:54:01.840 Now there are sightings of vehicles, and it's fascinating to 1080 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:06.159 see the variety of vehicles that are either deemed suspicious 1081 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:10.320 or people claim to have seen the various colors, you know, 1082 00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:11.719 makes of vehicles. 1083 00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:14.199 But we'll talk about that briefly. 1084 00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:17.920 But also there must have been some composite created, and 1085 00:54:18.039 --> 00:54:22.639 I love that you have a masked composite drawing and 1086 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:27.599 also others where without a mask, and. 1087 00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:30.119 I love that you have included those. 1088 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:33.199 So for anybody that grabs this book, you're gonna be 1089 00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:36.719 able to see something very very interesting where you can 1090 00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:41.119 almost see the one description consistent with the one without 1091 00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:41.519 a mask. 1092 00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:44.079 So I won't go into that for people, they'll just 1093 00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:45.000 find this fascinating. 1094 00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.239 I've never seen this as any book before, so it's 1095 00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:50.400 incredible that you haven't included this. So tell us about 1096 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:55.679 the creation of composites and how again obviously wasn't too successful. 1097 00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:58.920 But tell us about the relative success or non success 1098 00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:01.159 of the composite drawing the. 1099 00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:05.440 Uh, those things are first, they're subjective. In the book, 1100 00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.280 there's four of them that look a little different. They 1101 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:10.400 are in fact the same person. And one of them, 1102 00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:14.039 the eyewitness eye witness to who I think was the 1103 00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:16.559 stay rapists, didn't draw compositive. He looked at one said 1104 00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.239 you make these couple of changes. You got what the 1105 00:55:18.280 --> 00:55:20.760 guy looked like, so I know they're the same person. 1106 00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:24.320 But about all they did really was generate people calling 1107 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.239 in and you can get really really close. I got 1108 00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.679 one guy now that calls me from out the state UNA, 1109 00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:34.119 where truck driver and he's convinced that this one guy 1110 00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:35.960 looks much like a composite. He's got to be the 1111 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:38.840 guy we're looking for. And he doesn't want his name 1112 00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:41.280 to be known, but he wants me to drive four 1113 00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:43.360 or five hour drive to go ask this guy for 1114 00:55:43.480 --> 00:55:47.599 his DNA. Just can't get this guy to leave me alone. 1115 00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:50.639 Then call me from fact. They're got a holding call 1116 00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:55.400 on him now. But they they only they brought up well, 1117 00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:57.840 I guess you could see they're a real thumb. There's 1118 00:55:57.880 --> 00:55:59.199 no way you can go buy him. But if he 1119 00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:01.639 gets some guy in the had a compositive kind of 1120 00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:04.119 white flat face. They have one of the I say, 1121 00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:07.480 a ransacker looks nothing like these stair rape composits. So 1122 00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:09.880 do us somebody it looks like that, you send them 1123 00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:11.480 down to I say, because they're not gonna be the 1124 00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:14.719 stir rapist and act up Here one guy that looked 1125 00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:17.719 right at him. I didn't know this till Kleisko. He 1126 00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:21.440 said it looked like a Neanderthal. But what I had 1127 00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:24.880 concluded in this mission came out long. I mean, just 1128 00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:27.440 in the last couple of years. The guy probably had 1129 00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:31.320 a slight touch of rosetia. He had possibly an acne's 1130 00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:33.760 card face, not heavy, just a little. He had a 1131 00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:37.880 kind of a ruddy readish complexion. He was a jogger. 1132 00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:41.519 He was an athlete. Really, he could jump fences. Like 1133 00:56:41.599 --> 00:56:44.880 I said, he was seen jogging wearing a paratroopers boots. 1134 00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:48.159 Who are all kinds of t shirts tennis you he 1135 00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:50.840 were all kinds of clothes. We recovered a car that 1136 00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:54.760 I know it was his. Unfortunately, I remember absolutely nothing 1137 00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:57.960 about this because I but I did the report. Fulston 1138 00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.360 Police Department saw a car park for a street night. 1139 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:04.239 This is in January seventy seven, and so they cited 1140 00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:07.960 it from being abandoned. Well, the next night the car 1141 00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:09.960 has moved down the street as far as it. Austin 1142 00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:13.679 concerned and abandons abandons. I impounded it. The following March, 1143 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:18.840 the Tilliard started going through inventuring property because they're going 1144 00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:21.320 to sell the car in public auction. They found two 1145 00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:23.599 riot guns that kind of used by cops, a whole 1146 00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:27.039 bunch of shotgun shows like the cops used. I think 1147 00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:30.440 five sets had closed and all identifying marks removed. Had 1148 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:33.760 a wig and I thought and thought and thought about that. 1149 00:57:33.960 --> 00:57:38.280 I vaguely recall those two riot guns, and I don't 1150 00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:40.679 remember what else anything else about it. And most of 1151 00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:42.719 the stuff, not all, but a lot of it I 1152 00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:45.519 can remember in clear detail, but I cannot remember that. 1153 00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:48.239 But I did track it down that the car was 1154 00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:52.480 sold in December of seventy six. The people that sold it, 1155 00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:57.119 that both sents died your Bill Paddings, and they described 1156 00:57:57.159 --> 00:57:59.039 the guy. He gave a name of Dennis Allen, I 1157 00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:01.719 think it was, and they described him one city, was 1158 00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:05.039 sixteen years old, he had said twenty. They said he 1159 00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:09.960 was polite, had shagg type haircut, light blonde, five foot nine, 1160 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.719 one hundred and sixty pounds or so, pretty much. But 1161 00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:17.199 the year was described as and then he just disappeared. 1162 00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:23.199 The thing prior pounding that car in December of seventy six, 1163 00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:27.280 and I got this phone call months later. A young 1164 00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:30.000 girl in a sacament of city limits was going home, 1165 00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:31.559 went down the alley and this guy sent her in 1166 00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:33.280 a car watching her. She got out of the car, 1167 00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:36.000 he got out, she left. She called her mother, and 1168 00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:38.719 mother went outside and the guys going. This happened a 1169 00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:40.559 couple of more times. W's a different car, and then 1170 00:58:40.599 --> 00:58:43.639 happened again. This time she called her father, came outside. 1171 00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.320 The guy got a car and he ran real brave. Well, 1172 00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:49.880 it was a sixty one value, all that faded white 1173 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.719 and blue and stuff coming through it. I'm certain it's 1174 00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:55.360 the same pride as impounded in January. And they called 1175 00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:58.159 the city police and they came out, looked at it, 1176 00:58:59.079 --> 00:59:01.039 did nothing, left it. The next day of the car 1177 00:59:01.159 --> 00:59:05.360 is going a couple of days. Yeah, So a couple 1178 00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.039 of days later, the guy's back and then he doesn't 1179 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:10.679 go back anymore. The license plate. I ran it down 1180 00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:12.639 to a junk yard and loud I had been scrapped 1181 00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:15.079 out a couple months earlier, and then I chaced it 1182 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:17.639 somehow through Stockton and they just lost it where it went. 1183 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:21.039 So he used at least twice I know of, he 1184 00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:24.960 used a license place off of junk cars. Most of 1185 00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:26.760 the time they came back and not on file, which 1186 00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:29.719 means either copied wrong or the heading be registered for 1187 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:30.400 four years. 1188 00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:35.239 There was lots of reports of primar vehicles too, and 1189 00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:41.199 different different paint job, different color paint, so I thought 1190 00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:43.440 there might be some connection there as well. It seemed 1191 00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:46.559 to be a lot of a lot of unpainted or 1192 00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:49.880 partially painted or primer vehicles that were reported. 1193 00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:53.280 Like somebody pointed out he was driving junkers. They theorized 1194 00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:56.599 he was from a junkyard or a toe company or something. 1195 00:59:56.719 --> 00:59:59.760 But you know, anything's possible. I don't think it was. 1196 01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:03.119 I think he more than either he did. If you 1197 01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:06.639 start when a kid was first seen sixteen or eighteen, 1198 01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:09.280 you could see he just got in the military because 1199 01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:11.320 he was about one tour of duty and then he 1200 01:00:11.599 --> 01:00:15.559 started moving away from Sacramento and the military stuff never 1201 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:18.400 show it up again. So that's the possibility. It could 1202 01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:20.199 be the military is real in his head. He really 1203 01:00:20.239 --> 01:00:23.360 didn't do it. He could have been in the real estate. 1204 01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:25.800 And if I was in the real estate, I would 1205 01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:28.559 look at escrow or praisers that those records are destroyed 1206 01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:33.199 after seven years. I I checked here recently. The lending 1207 01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:35.519 company's out of the question because at least one victory 1208 01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:38.039 had a brand new house just built and they paid cash, 1209 01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:40.719 so they didn't get involved in lending. So that's out. 1210 01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:43.000 But you have the case in Modesta where the guy 1211 01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:45.719 he gives off the called tax Ga, picks up the 1212 01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:49.960 ferret at the airport the United Airlines just landed. He 1213 01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:51.599 knew that he is what the guy was ordered not. 1214 01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:55.199 He takes the guy down to near a vacant field. 1215 01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:57.199 The guy so this good. He gets out. He was 1216 01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.239 across the field. He's got the SATs and with als 1217 01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:01.719 on top. On the other side of that field, I 1218 01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:03.599 think it was. The next night was a brand new 1219 01:01:03.639 --> 01:01:06.159 house and the assault went down in there and the 1220 01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:08.000 guy had a sash of it open. The top just 1221 01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:11.320 like this guy did. He gave a description thirty years old, 1222 01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:14.880 which doesn't match the others. So you know, it's really 1223 01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:16.920 hard to say. I will tell you this, the descriptions 1224 01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:20.320 we got once he left Sacramento, you have at least 1225 01:01:20.559 --> 01:01:22.800 two different people. I don't know if they know each other. 1226 01:01:23.079 --> 01:01:25.559 You never see more than one set of footprints to 1227 01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:29.480 find two and three cans. But you can't go from 1228 01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:32.440 a real firm, athletic body to a potcut from some 1229 01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:34.840 flat and you can't go from a hard calloused hand 1230 01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:37.599 to a small suft ones. It just can't be done, 1231 01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:39.800 not in a matter of weeks. And we're talking like 1232 01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:41.960 two or three weeks. So there was more than one 1233 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:46.280 out there, but that's not unusual either. I'd like to know. 1234 01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.760 Now you still great, Sorry, you still believe the East 1235 01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:52.280 area rapist moved? And you say you talk about Stockton, 1236 01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:56.519 So tell us, just for those people not familiar with California, 1237 01:01:57.960 --> 01:02:02.119 do there southern California, central California? Tell us where Stockton is, 1238 01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:05.440 and tell us what you believe the catalyst was for him. 1239 01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:08.280 We talked about maybe that his military stint was over 1240 01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:12.480 or that possibility, but was there any catalyst that might 1241 01:02:12.519 --> 01:02:15.960 have made him run other than like you say, a 1242 01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:16.639 close call. 1243 01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:21.960 So it could be just employment construction. They found paint, 1244 01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.719 architectural paint. I think it was architectural. He too cross 1245 01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:27.679 the sacrament of ben Spirits and I had nothing to 1246 01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:29.159 do with that. I read and report the painted the 1247 01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:32.159 spirit offense pulled something else. He's quite capable of doing 1248 01:02:32.199 --> 01:02:34.440 that on purpose, leading a little red herrings here and there, 1249 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:36.960 and that could take him down there. It could be 1250 01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:39.159 that we were right on top of him because cedar 1251 01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:41.039 Hurst and merland Dale we picked out where he was 1252 01:02:41.079 --> 01:02:43.880 going to hit the street. Cedar Hurst, we located to 1253 01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:46.920 these potential victims. He might just figures time to go 1254 01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:49.360 away and get out of here. And we've been talking 1255 01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:51.599 about helicopters for years, but they didn't have any of 1256 01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:54.239 them yet. So you know, I really don't know. He 1257 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:57.159 was a tough my roof one night. You don't think 1258 01:02:57.239 --> 01:02:57.639 it was him? 1259 01:02:59.400 --> 01:02:59.960 Tell us about that? 1260 01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:03.039 Well, you know what I remember of it. My wife 1261 01:03:03.079 --> 01:03:05.400 and I have bed. Well, first my house El Matto 1262 01:03:05.840 --> 01:03:09.400 Drive and THEA was Rancha Cardova and behind you there 1263 01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:11.519 is an L shaped park, too size park at a 1264 01:03:11.559 --> 01:03:14.559 football field and what have you? You won? End is 1265 01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:17.639 Mitchell Junior High and the other it was a elementary school, 1266 01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:20.480 grade school. I skive which one it was. My kids 1267 01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:23.639 went to the one. And that's exactly what he liked. 1268 01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:27.760 Across the did you'd go across our street neighborhood, Acoma 1269 01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:31.480 Road kind of parallels that road, hardly described. Over there 1270 01:03:31.719 --> 01:03:35.360 was rock miles from the gold drenching days. Used to 1271 01:03:35.400 --> 01:03:38.199 go facing in the holes over there, perfect place to problem. 1272 01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:40.840 The whole town is perfect. Probably the kind of area 1273 01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.960 he liked well. And sometime at night, my youngest son, 1274 01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:46.079 he was not quite five, he came in and woke 1275 01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:48.719 us up. He was really scared. I remember that. I 1276 01:03:48.760 --> 01:03:50.679 don't know what he told us. We probably just you 1277 01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:52.920 know here, okay. He went to sleep, and the next 1278 01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:55.800 day he told us he hardly ever slept more than 1279 01:03:55.840 --> 01:03:58.360 four or five hours and nine he still doesn't. But 1280 01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:01.559 he's in bed and he looked. He looked out the 1281 01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:04.480 window and the head hangs down, and he said he 1282 01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:06.400 only saw it because he had an old bobbing thing 1283 01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:08.320 on the top of the cape that was wearing and 1284 01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:11.000 it was bobbing around. The movement caught his eye and 1285 01:04:11.079 --> 01:04:13.440 the faces all covered and the guy took her flashlight 1286 01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:15.480 and shined across the room once and then he was gone. 1287 01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:18.079 He told me, lady. He says, he was standing on 1288 01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:20.159 the roof and he's moving all around like he wanted 1289 01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:22.440 to be heard or something, and we didn't take up. 1290 01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.320 We were just too dead sleeve. This too early in 1291 01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:26.639 that morning, I can't So the next day he went 1292 01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:29.719 out and looked in. There was no footprints or anything. 1293 01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:33.079 But my son is pretty sharp. He's atacted very intelligent. 1294 01:04:33.079 --> 01:04:34.920 I wish that as smart as he is, he did 1295 01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:37.719 he did not imagine that at that age. If the 1296 01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:39.000 guy had come in and talked to me, he could 1297 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.760 have held him in a conversation for a while. So 1298 01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:44.239 we were have some perfect place, but you're like to be. 1299 01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:46.360 But he was striking over to the west of that 1300 01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:49.280 part of Cordova that he could have been there very easily. 1301 01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:52.480 So the question is was it him? I think it was. 1302 01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:55.320 Did he know who I was? I don't know. I 1303 01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:58.679 didn't know who he was. I tell you this, if 1304 01:04:58.679 --> 01:05:00.239 I'd known he was up there, one or two things 1305 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:02.760 would have happened. That hole would have some holes dripped 1306 01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:06.480 and hands the holes in it miy saturated fay cop 1307 01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:08.679 in the world would just come to come in quietly 1308 01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:11.039 and know the guy can see from up there and 1309 01:05:11.159 --> 01:05:13.079 bring the dog and something he would come back, something 1310 01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:17.840 would have happened. M I slipped right through it. I 1311 01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:20.239 can't believe it that what happened? Yeah? 1312 01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:26.559 Crazy? Now as do you illustrate and you will you 1313 01:05:26.679 --> 01:05:27.760 demonstrate and you show me. 1314 01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:29.880 Hello, It is Ryan And I was on a flight 1315 01:05:29.880 --> 01:05:32.119 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 1316 01:05:32.199 --> 01:05:34.639 slot games on Chumba Casino dot com. 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That's Chumbuck Casino dot com 1324 01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:55.079 and live the chumber line. 1325 01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:57.320 No, we're necessary d where everybody lost in terms of 1326 01:05:57.320 --> 01:05:58.480 conditions eighteen plus with. 1327 01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:02.079 The lucky landslide can get lucky just about anywhere. 1328 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:05.840 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 1329 01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:07.719 weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here 1330 01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:10.800 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 1331 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:13.320 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 1332 01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.679 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 1333 01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:18.199 and start getting lucky thank for. 1334 01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:21.880 Free at lucky landslipes dot com. Are you feeling lucky? No, 1335 01:06:22.039 --> 01:06:25.199 we're just necessary void. We're prohibited by Law eighteen plus. 1336 01:06:25.360 --> 01:06:28.039 Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 1337 01:06:28.639 --> 01:06:31.840 Well, in this book, at least a connection with what 1338 01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:37.199 starts off is burglarizing and peeping tom and prowling, and 1339 01:06:37.360 --> 01:06:42.000 then sexual assault can lead to an escalation. And so 1340 01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:45.480 some things are changing with the East Area rapists in 1341 01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:48.760 terms of location, but also parts of the MO we're 1342 01:06:48.800 --> 01:06:52.719 talking about I might be moving ahead a little bit here, 1343 01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:56.559 but we're talking about him sobbing him talking to himself. 1344 01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:01.320 There's talk some victims believe that there that he might 1345 01:07:01.400 --> 01:07:03.480 have a partner. So tell us a little bit about 1346 01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:07.159 some of these developments and changes in the MO and 1347 01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:15.000 and how he goes from not confronting people too, doesn't 1348 01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:17.239 you know now he's confronting partners. 1349 01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:21.000 And so again tell us about this escalation he went. 1350 01:07:20.960 --> 01:07:23.559 And the very first one take in the first one, 1351 01:07:23.599 --> 01:07:25.880 one of the first ones, he's already talking to somebody. 1352 01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.719 The victor didn't believe that there's anybody there, and he 1353 01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.119 only stracks. The woman's there alone asleep, and he catch 1354 01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:35.079 him up guard and then it was all it was. 1355 01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:40.559 In seventy seven, seventy seven, he had on Richdale Street 1356 01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:44.000 at Orangevale in a gallon. Her boyfriend were in there, 1357 01:07:44.159 --> 01:07:48.840 and they had her tie him and naturally sud loosely, 1358 01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:51.480 and he tied her and went back and tied the 1359 01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:54.840 boy and the boyfriend, and then he took dishes and 1360 01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:57.760 stacked on his back. I learned that's called the Brazilian 1361 01:07:57.960 --> 01:08:02.199 tree or Brazilian tea, which it was. And then he 1362 01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:04.159 would go tack in the other room. He's doing the 1363 01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:06.719 same thing through his gritted teeth. You know, I just 1364 01:08:06.800 --> 01:08:09.320 want your money. You won't be hurt. And he goes 1365 01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:11.639 in there and he starts talking about oh, threatening, which 1366 01:08:11.639 --> 01:08:14.920 he'd always always done before he does his ransacking, and 1367 01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:17.239 every two minutes it's always back in checking on people. 1368 01:08:18.920 --> 01:08:22.680 Eventually gets the point that he starts trying to act. 1369 01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:25.039 He's not a very good one. He's in there sobbing 1370 01:08:25.079 --> 01:08:28.279 a few different times. Once he's founding the forest thing. 1371 01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:30.800 I hate you, Bonnie, I hate you Bonnie. There might 1372 01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:33.680 have been Mommy, if she couldn't be sure. And on 1373 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:36.039 more than one occasion he's heard talking to somebody. The 1374 01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:40.800 only thing there was one much later where the gal 1375 01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:43.800 said he was in the garage and heard him say 1376 01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:46.640 put that in the car, And neighbor said they heard 1377 01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:48.560 that little beating sound of the car door open. So 1378 01:08:49.399 --> 01:08:51.920 and then when the cops got there, they checked the 1379 01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:54.760 lights and burnt haunted and the garage. If he had 1380 01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:55.800 a car and there he put it in there and 1381 01:08:55.840 --> 01:08:58.359 took it out. He didn't use their car. I think 1382 01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:01.439 when the last one's over there. She knew this in 1383 01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:03.800 the garage, and she thought she heard somebody walking out 1384 01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:07.720 of the patio. There was one other when in guess 1385 01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.119 the one way the guy said the suspect look at Neanderthal. 1386 01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:13.640 The car pulled up and honk the horn, and the 1387 01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:16.039 male victims said, here's the guy go in the backyard. 1388 01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:19.479 The female said, I heard the horn honk. I think 1389 01:09:19.479 --> 01:09:22.119 it was twice right, and twice again, and then came 1390 01:09:22.199 --> 01:09:24.600 back up and knocked on the door and knocked on 1391 01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:27.119 the window. Then she heard hush, voices and what I 1392 01:09:27.239 --> 01:09:29.359 was a female and one had to have been the suspect, 1393 01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:32.319 and then females gone. A little bit later he was 1394 01:09:32.359 --> 01:09:35.159 gone too. So there's a couple of times there you 1395 01:09:35.159 --> 01:09:37.800 can find with this good indication this guy hadn't accomplished, 1396 01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:43.199 but there's never any real hard fact I would back 1397 01:09:43.239 --> 01:09:44.760 by then I wouldn't be surprised he didn't have an 1398 01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:49.680 accomplice with it, but the deteriorating personality. You know, we 1399 01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:53.439 my partner girl Biggie, and I were wondering about this 1400 01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:57.680 guy really going up to the ben killing somebody, because 1401 01:09:57.680 --> 01:09:59.840 he's making more and more threats and talking to him, 1402 01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:04.840 Moore was acting even more bizarre. And then I think 1403 01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:11.199 that's when the office started talking about using psychological terms 1404 01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:14.079 dealing with homosexual fear of her anger. I thought, remember 1405 01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:16.720 what else it was. We also noticed he's becoming less 1406 01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:19.840 and less capable of performing the sex act, and definitely 1407 01:10:19.880 --> 01:10:23.199 he was not very much interested in any longer. One 1408 01:10:23.239 --> 01:10:25.439 gal said he enjoyed tying her up far more than 1409 01:10:25.479 --> 01:10:27.880 he did anything about sex. More than one said he 1410 01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:30.640 had no interest in sex at all. It's just kind 1411 01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:32.439 of what he was doing, just trying to humiliate the guy. 1412 01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:34.720 I guess if he could cause it a lot of 1413 01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:38.800 pain anyway, he would do it. But now the moment's hesitation. 1414 01:10:39.560 --> 01:10:43.159 When he went down south. The first pedially assaulted down 1415 01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:45.680 there said he was walking back and forth whispering to 1416 01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:48.359 himself because either I got to kill him, but we 1417 01:10:48.399 --> 01:10:50.640 got to kill him. I couldn't kill him. Well, the 1418 01:10:51.199 --> 01:10:53.920 woman decides lay there and let him on a psychotic 1419 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:55.880 cut her throat, so she went out the door, even 1420 01:10:55.920 --> 01:10:58.359 though she was all tied out, So she went out 1421 01:10:58.760 --> 01:11:01.840 her went out back door. In the meantime, the bad 1422 01:11:01.880 --> 01:11:03.560 guy would out the front door and caught her and 1423 01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:06.000 brought her back. Then he found it back husband was 1424 01:11:06.039 --> 01:11:07.800 gone sing up the back door and couldn't find him 1425 01:11:08.439 --> 01:11:10.319 while he was out there, She went the front door again. 1426 01:11:11.399 --> 01:11:15.359 This turns out her neighbor is sitting upstairs reading a 1427 01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:18.359 book facing her house was an MBA agent and he 1428 01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:20.720 heard some of this sleep had his gun went down there. Anyway, 1429 01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:22.960 they got kind of a profile shot of the guy 1430 01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:25.800 and chased him and he got away. But turns out 1431 01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:28.079 it was probably the Easter rape. And then there's after that. 1432 01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:31.359 I think a couple months later he murdered two people 1433 01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:34.880 from then on he killed everybody. He raped, some didn't rape, 1434 01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:39.119 he shot some and bludgeoned and just bludged them. I know, 1435 01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:41.159 he was just having a field day killing the murder 1436 01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:42.239 in there was this thrill. 1437 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:50.279 This East Area rapist hasn't achieved the kind of fame 1438 01:11:50.439 --> 01:11:55.199 that the Nightstalker of Philip Carlo of Los Angeles and 1439 01:11:55.279 --> 01:12:01.039 San Francisco fame. But at the same time there is this, uh, 1440 01:12:02.119 --> 01:12:05.399 there's these murders. Now. What I was going to ask 1441 01:12:05.640 --> 01:12:09.199 was what was the public response, What was the public 1442 01:12:09.279 --> 01:12:14.399 awareness of this East Area rapist as an entity? And 1443 01:12:15.079 --> 01:12:18.000 again what was the public and what was the media response, 1444 01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:20.079 especially once you start killing? 1445 01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:23.279 You know up here when he first started, we didn't 1446 01:12:23.319 --> 01:12:25.720 release the information because we knew nothing and we knew 1447 01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:30.119 people would demand the composite or something. And a reporter, 1448 01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:32.600 Warren Holloway, was wandering around the office all the time 1449 01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:33.920 and he came up with it. I'm sure it was 1450 01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:35.920 him at the term Easter a rapist. That would have 1451 01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:41.920 been sometime in November seventy six, maybe seventy six. Anyway, 1452 01:12:42.399 --> 01:12:44.800 they put it out and people start calling and they 1453 01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:47.159 went to composite. The very first composite he put out 1454 01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:50.520 was a literal composite, and the it was compositive composites 1455 01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:53.039 and discompiled thought of them the guy and any of 1456 01:12:53.119 --> 01:12:55.960 them did. And then it continued on, and then he 1457 01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:58.560 started moving to the country across the county Stockton Modesta, 1458 01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:01.600 and those days he didn't want to hear it. A 1459 01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:05.479 couple of just flat refused, basically just kicked the investigators 1460 01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:07.039 out of their office. And now they can get out 1461 01:13:07.039 --> 01:13:08.680 of here. He's not over here, we're not going to 1462 01:13:08.720 --> 01:13:11.399 hear about it. But over there in that area they 1463 01:13:11.439 --> 01:13:14.560 became really parannoyed. People started really watching. The last one 1464 01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:17.319 that was intended to be assaulted by this guy, he 1465 01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:20.319 and his wife made plans just in case, and he 1466 01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:22.960 woke up and he saw the guy putting on a mask. 1467 01:13:23.560 --> 01:13:24.920 Well the man saw him, and the man who was 1468 01:13:24.920 --> 01:13:27.439 about twice understand about twice the size of the suspect 1469 01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:28.960 and probably could have twisted his head off, but he 1470 01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:31.479 didn't do it. But he got that's where the mask, 1471 01:13:31.840 --> 01:13:33.399 you know, he looked right at him, got out of 1472 01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:35.640 up close like a couple of feet, and his wife 1473 01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:37.079 saw the guy when he went out the doors, he 1474 01:13:37.119 --> 01:13:39.680 saw him in the light, and that's when after that 1475 01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:41.640 is when he moved down south, because he got some 1476 01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:44.720 close to getting caught up here. But then they got 1477 01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:48.399 down there and Bevans and reroutment down there and talked 1478 01:13:48.439 --> 01:13:50.600 to the Santa Barbara County He's now, that's not the 1479 01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:54.359 same guy. Bev's yead Is group disagreed. Well, turns out 1480 01:13:54.399 --> 01:13:57.119 Bevans is right, and finally they had admitted it was him. 1481 01:13:57.119 --> 01:13:59.359 And then they had several Santa Barbara, Orange County and 1482 01:13:59.399 --> 01:14:02.479 Mantua and it wasn't until they got DNA and all 1483 01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:05.239 of them did those everybodys convinced that it was the 1484 01:14:05.279 --> 01:14:07.520 same person. The guy would try to, you know, hide 1485 01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:09.039 his trail, you try to make it look like a 1486 01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:12.159 or you try to change his m someone. It didn't work. 1487 01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:15.960 I guess he didn't know enough about DNA at the time. 1488 01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:19.159 But they were pretty paranoid. As far as the media, 1489 01:14:19.279 --> 01:14:22.000 I have no idea what sets about the hurdy bird rapists. 1490 01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:25.399 They already ever talked about it. He's terry rapist. Hip boom, 1491 01:14:25.439 --> 01:14:30.000 they they exploded. They were everywhere. So I try. Some 1492 01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.520 people don't know why I didn't pick a point. Media 1493 01:14:32.560 --> 01:14:33.079 could tell you that. 1494 01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:36.880 I guess what I was going to ask before was 1495 01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:40.840 about the Zodiac killer. Part of his infamy and part 1496 01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:43.039 of a lot of the serial killers infamy is that 1497 01:14:43.119 --> 01:14:47.039 they contact the media again, making the media very very involved, 1498 01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:50.800 and you know, maybe they get interested. Then was this 1499 01:14:50.920 --> 01:14:55.680 a feature of this rapist killer as well? Contacting the 1500 01:14:55.760 --> 01:14:56.640 media at any point? 1501 01:14:57.079 --> 01:14:59.520 This guy called the Sheriff's solfs a few times, make 1502 01:14:59.560 --> 01:15:01.680 a a little wise remarks and I was going to 1503 01:15:01.720 --> 01:15:04.000 hear it again and all that, and it turns out 1504 01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:07.439 he generally did. It was him. There was a poem written, 1505 01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:10.439 and I know it went to a psychiatry and I 1506 01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:14.479 think it back he went to a newspaper and a 1507 01:15:14.600 --> 01:15:17.119 TV ended up in the sheriff of Sulfish. It showed 1508 01:15:17.199 --> 01:15:20.199 up right after I transferred out. And I've been told 1509 01:15:20.279 --> 01:15:24.119 recently that it first went to a psychiatrist whose office 1510 01:15:24.199 --> 01:15:26.520 is right across the street from woman. I forgot her name, 1511 01:15:27.079 --> 01:15:30.680 but she had something like Karen's poetry reading, poetry reading 1512 01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:33.359 and poetry room, stuff like that. She says, did I 1513 01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:36.159 tried to find it. I learned that and then he 1514 01:15:36.239 --> 01:15:38.479 said to these people, so I don't know, they don't 1515 01:15:38.520 --> 01:15:40.560 know for a fact it came from the from these 1516 01:15:40.640 --> 01:15:44.199 day rapist. I personally think it shows a high degree 1517 01:15:44.199 --> 01:15:47.600 of intelligence, and I don't know that the ear never 1518 01:15:47.680 --> 01:15:51.159 showed any real strong evidence of intelligence. He's cagy. He 1519 01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:53.319 didn't get caught. He didn't get caught because he's smart. 1520 01:15:54.079 --> 01:15:56.119 People didn't do what they should and people tried to 1521 01:15:56.159 --> 01:15:57.640 do what they should and messed it up, and it 1522 01:15:57.800 --> 01:16:00.560 just you know, everything is dispelled his way. But he 1523 01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:02.760 was casey. He was smart like a fox. Let'll tell 1524 01:16:02.760 --> 01:16:02.960 you that. 1525 01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.199 The other thing that I and I and I will 1526 01:16:08.840 --> 01:16:10.159 I might as well, we might as well go into 1527 01:16:10.239 --> 01:16:11.920 it right now just a little bit, because this is 1528 01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:15.520 my Everyone that reads this book is going to turn 1529 01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:17.640 into an amateur sleuth. And we've had a couple of 1530 01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:20.239 calls tonight and again at the end, i'll talk about 1531 01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:24.840 message board that that a person that's on the message board, 1532 01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:28.039 a person goes by the handle three two zero on 1533 01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:32.760 and I'll mention the message board at the end. UH 1534 01:16:33.359 --> 01:16:37.119 actually turned me onto your book, Richard, and so I 1535 01:16:37.319 --> 01:16:40.359 just wanted to give him credit for that to alert 1536 01:16:40.439 --> 01:16:43.640 me to this your your book and this another book 1537 01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:47.760 because I had covered this case somewhat with Larry Crompton. 1538 01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:49.720 And we can talk about that at the end too 1539 01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:52.600 that his book about this part of this case anyway, 1540 01:16:54.439 --> 01:16:56.119 But what I was going to say was that one 1541 01:16:56.159 --> 01:16:58.359 of the things that I found fascinating, and again this 1542 01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:00.920 amateur sleuth that came out in me, is that there 1543 01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:05.840 were reports, many reports that he was speaking through clenched teeth, 1544 01:17:06.119 --> 01:17:08.560 and that some of the victims thought that he was 1545 01:17:08.640 --> 01:17:12.239 trying to disguise his either high voice, and that there 1546 01:17:12.359 --> 01:17:15.479 was some talk of maybe having a Mexican accent or 1547 01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:18.920 some kind of accent. And then there was often times 1548 01:17:19.039 --> 01:17:22.840 where it seemed that he stuttered somewhat, or somebody who 1549 01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:26.640 was trying to suppress a stutter. And I grew up 1550 01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:28.159 with a guy who was my best friend when I 1551 01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:31.239 was a kid, And when my friend, who was a 1552 01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:35.640 real bad stutterer, he would speak in different voices just 1553 01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:38.279 fooling around on a telephone, and he would not stutter 1554 01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:42.479 almost at all. In fact, virtually there'd be no stutter 1555 01:17:43.479 --> 01:17:45.520 when he did a different voice. So I just thought, 1556 01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:47.760 as an amateur sleuth, I'd bring out that point for 1557 01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:48.600 whatever it's worth. 1558 01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:51.039 But tell us a little bit about what. 1559 01:17:51.279 --> 01:17:54.479 You thought from his I thought there was something in 1560 01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:57.159 the clenched teeth and him with this voice, and so 1561 01:17:57.279 --> 01:18:02.039 many conclusions victims that there was something that he was 1562 01:18:02.079 --> 01:18:03.239 trying to do with his voice. 1563 01:18:03.960 --> 01:18:07.399 Yeah, most of them, almost all of them, not all 1564 01:18:07.399 --> 01:18:09.840 of them, and most said that he he seemed to 1565 01:18:09.880 --> 01:18:12.000 be trying to make his voice sound deeper, and the 1566 01:18:12.119 --> 01:18:15.159 more nervously excited he got, the more high pitched they got. 1567 01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:17.840 Some said he thought he picked up by a starter, 1568 01:18:17.960 --> 01:18:20.840 and a couple of them had some profession that gave 1569 01:18:20.960 --> 01:18:23.520 him the opportunity to know if as somebody studied with 1570 01:18:23.680 --> 01:18:25.560 for real or not. They were convinced. He actually started 1571 01:18:25.600 --> 01:18:28.800 to study a few times in there, and the Mexican 1572 01:18:28.920 --> 01:18:31.319 accident was picked up two or three times, so it 1573 01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:33.359 was a physical description and the guy who's had a 1574 01:18:33.399 --> 01:18:35.760 pot belly then, so he was probably a Mexican just 1575 01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:40.039 trying to copy somebody. And one victim thought he was black, 1576 01:18:40.119 --> 01:18:43.039 one thought he was Oriental. They had nothing really to 1577 01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:48.279 base it on, but essentially he was I gather who 1578 01:18:48.439 --> 01:18:50.520 this guy was when he went into these places. He 1579 01:18:50.640 --> 01:18:53.960 was really scared himself. He was nervous, but until he 1580 01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:56.319 got them all secured and they couldn't do anything, then 1581 01:18:56.359 --> 01:18:59.279 he's pretty brave. But he's always trying to disguise his 1582 01:18:59.399 --> 01:19:01.840 voice somewhat, but there was a couple of them, and 1583 01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:04.520 everybody said he didn't seem to be taking the voice. 1584 01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:08.399 He just both real low and almost always threw clinched teeth, 1585 01:19:09.720 --> 01:19:11.640 I think, And at first one I went to with 1586 01:19:11.840 --> 01:19:15.520 jan he was doing the same thing. But at one 1587 01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:17.880 point he kind of started speaking in a normal voice. 1588 01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:20.319 The only reason I think he did not have a 1589 01:19:20.359 --> 01:19:22.920 high pitched voice unless he made it scared. Was that 1590 01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:26.840 Valiant that those people sold in December seventy six. It 1591 01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:30.520 was later impounded. They said he had a I think 1592 01:19:30.520 --> 01:19:32.600 it was well modulated voice. At the fact the report 1593 01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:34.520 what I wrote in there, I get everything at all, 1594 01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:39.399 But his voices was not high pitched. He was just 1595 01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:42.079 he was real reticent. Finally gave him the name. Didn't 1596 01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:44.600 want to talk about himself and car As. I concerned 1597 01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:47.720 that was the serie rapist right there. But he was 1598 01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:49.880 so peasy I don't think he left mind any kind 1599 01:19:49.880 --> 01:19:50.359 of evidence. 1600 01:19:53.079 --> 01:19:57.800 Now, this book encompasses crimes occurring from nineteen seventy four 1601 01:19:57.920 --> 01:20:04.439 to nineteen eighty six, but in the spring of two thousand, 1602 01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:09.520 there you are called again. Tell us when you did retire, 1603 01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:12.119 and tell us about the conditions of being called again, 1604 01:20:12.319 --> 01:20:15.239 what was said and tell us what happens in the 1605 01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:18.279 year two thousand and Of course, DNA has come a 1606 01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:19.359 long way since then. 1607 01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:22.920 He has. I retired in nineteen ninety three, March twenty fourth, 1608 01:20:23.039 --> 01:20:28.119 nineteen ninety three, and I got a call from John McKennis. 1609 01:20:28.520 --> 01:20:33.079 He had been the press person, the folks person to 1610 01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:35.800 the department prior to that. Then he was under sheriff. 1611 01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:38.920 When he called me, he basically became sheriff. But the 1612 01:20:39.319 --> 01:20:43.000 DNA finally connected all these crimes, or almost all of them. 1613 01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:47.560 As DNA was developed, eather One was retired into the 1614 01:20:47.640 --> 01:20:50.439 they decided to put together a small task force. They 1615 01:20:50.479 --> 01:20:52.239 want to know if I wanted to join it, Well, 1616 01:20:52.319 --> 01:20:54.159 you have to on call. Reserve means you got to 1617 01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:57.520 take a test, all kinds of stuff. I wasn't I 1618 01:20:57.600 --> 01:20:59.119 was going to do that. He is igret about it. 1619 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:02.800 A few years later, Russ Ollis, he's a retired special 1620 01:21:02.880 --> 01:21:06.319 investigat in the federal government, called him. How I got 1621 01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:09.039 my number? But anyway, I talked to him for a while. 1622 01:21:09.159 --> 01:21:12.239 Eventually he asked me to right down. I can remember 1623 01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:14.760 about this stuff, you know, and as I can't, Buddy 1624 01:21:14.800 --> 01:21:17.520 else's body so cursed the clear sum isn't. And I 1625 01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:20.000 ended up typing up about five hundred pages of stuff, 1626 01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:23.399 and that's the ridiculous, and so I dumped a lot 1627 01:21:23.439 --> 01:21:27.039 of it. In the meantime, he wanted me to help 1628 01:21:27.079 --> 01:21:29.520 him go out and get some DNA and some people 1629 01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:33.239 and do some backgrounds work. And I thought I can't 1630 01:21:33.239 --> 01:21:35.079 get rid of the damn case, I might as well helped. 1631 01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:37.279 I think that was two thousand and nine. I got 1632 01:21:37.359 --> 01:21:40.199 back into it. So we started going from there and 1633 01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:43.680 that led to this this book. He was part of 1634 01:21:43.720 --> 01:21:46.840 the mess the board A and E boards. I think 1635 01:21:46.880 --> 01:21:49.880 it broke down. They went to another one, but I 1636 01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:52.039 never visited that board. Me tell me some of the stuff, 1637 01:21:52.119 --> 01:21:54.239 he said, and I thought, well, there's stuff there that 1638 01:21:55.079 --> 01:21:56.960 is wrong, this stuff and make it. I was going 1639 01:21:57.000 --> 01:21:59.640 to give it to somebody, to give to them a 1640 01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:03.399 chat throughout a week or something like that, and eventually 1641 01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:06.359 it made a morph into this book. I think half 1642 01:22:06.399 --> 01:22:07.800 of it was just I got a kick. I was saying, 1643 01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:10.680 I'm an author, now, you know, I mean, never intended 1644 01:22:10.720 --> 01:22:12.319 to be a real big boxer book or anything else. 1645 01:22:12.319 --> 01:22:14.800 I didn't fool myself with that. But that's what the 1646 01:22:14.840 --> 01:22:17.119 whole thing was for was to help those people what 1647 01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:20.239 I call the armchairs sluice, but you know, give them 1648 01:22:20.239 --> 01:22:23.600 a hand up. But since all that, I've talked to 1649 01:22:23.600 --> 01:22:25.760 a couple and they know more about the reason livestocker 1650 01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:28.560 than I do. I know about the first two cases 1651 01:22:28.640 --> 01:22:30.319 because I was consulted on them and I have the 1652 01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:32.239 reports at home. The rest of them I had to 1653 01:22:32.279 --> 01:22:34.319 find here and they are in the page connect kind 1654 01:22:34.319 --> 01:22:36.439 of stuff. But they do, they know quite a bit. 1655 01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:38.800 They got some pretty good theories out there. They got 1656 01:22:38.840 --> 01:22:41.359 some of the ready whack, and you got some series 1657 01:22:41.439 --> 01:22:42.960 that no matter what you tell them, they're going to 1658 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:44.800 stick with it. You can disprove with all you want, 1659 01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:47.399 they're going to stay with that one potest. 1660 01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:52.399 All that came from, Yeah, you messaged you, you mentioned this, 1661 01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:56.479 and I was in correspondence with again his handle three 1662 01:22:56.560 --> 01:22:59.680 two oh or three two zero, and it's e A 1663 01:23:00.119 --> 01:23:05.680 r o N s g SK dot pro boards, p 1664 01:23:05.920 --> 01:23:11.279 r O boards dot com. Again e A r O 1665 01:23:11.520 --> 01:23:17.000 N s g SK dot ProBoards dot com. So if 1666 01:23:17.039 --> 01:23:19.520 you're talking about all these people that becomes loose, it's 1667 01:23:19.560 --> 01:23:25.119 such a fascinating case. In total, you have fifty three 1668 01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:29.680 sexual assaults and twelve murders attributed to the East Area rapist. 1669 01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:33.319 That we know of. There's one other of sexual assault 1670 01:23:33.359 --> 01:23:36.279 he probably did. And there's a homicide I've heard about 1671 01:23:36.359 --> 01:23:39.079 down south that he might have done. And I just 1672 01:23:39.159 --> 01:23:39.479 don't know. 1673 01:23:41.039 --> 01:23:44.680 He was true, was there? Sorry, go ahead, like. 1674 01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:46.880 I say, there's one sexual assault up here. They tried 1675 01:23:46.880 --> 01:23:48.199 to lay it on him, and I know it was. 1676 01:23:48.439 --> 01:23:52.439 It was at Artpainton. That thing went down. If you 1677 01:23:52.520 --> 01:23:54.159 take one of the rapes he was rested for in 1678 01:23:54.239 --> 01:23:57.640 nineteen sixty eight, The location and the victims are the 1679 01:23:57.720 --> 01:24:00.479 only thing different. The structure. I mean in front of 1680 01:24:00.520 --> 01:24:03.159 the apartment on the sidewalk, the words said everything exactly 1681 01:24:03.199 --> 01:24:05.359 the same. I know we did that. And the next 1682 01:24:05.439 --> 01:24:08.000 one there was a woman in her fifties or sixties, 1683 01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:11.119 and she walked downstairs and this guy is tearing up 1684 01:24:11.199 --> 01:24:15.319 towels and picking mind and I mean minded, mindfold and 1685 01:24:15.479 --> 01:24:17.520 she saw him and yelled for her boyfriend upstairs, and 1686 01:24:17.720 --> 01:24:19.359 and the guy took off for running. I had a 1687 01:24:19.399 --> 01:24:22.159 big stack what they called I said, city's in there. 1688 01:24:22.199 --> 01:24:23.880 I must have been fifty of them in that stack. 1689 01:24:23.960 --> 01:24:26.600 And she started through it almost immediately picked up handed 1690 01:24:26.640 --> 01:24:30.600 to miss him that was our pink because she refused 1691 01:24:30.640 --> 01:24:33.119 to found the complaint. Today, I just say tell the 1692 01:24:33.199 --> 01:24:35.239 DA you don't put I could find him in arresting 1693 01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:38.159 and let her and the DA work it out because 1694 01:24:38.159 --> 01:24:41.239 he was getting ready to assault her. Here's the piece 1695 01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:41.800 of work. 1696 01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:47.560 Now, you do a great job of and I admire 1697 01:24:47.640 --> 01:24:48.359 this show. 1698 01:24:48.640 --> 01:24:52.960 Rather than tell, rather than making conclusions, you've left it 1699 01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:56.199 up to us to sort this out, because again, I 1700 01:24:56.279 --> 01:24:58.600 guess it's hard to give conclusions when you don't have 1701 01:24:58.680 --> 01:25:02.399 the suspect. It's hard to say yes when you didn't 1702 01:25:02.439 --> 01:25:05.479 get around to a very viable suspect other than Art Pinkton, 1703 01:25:05.840 --> 01:25:07.920 which can't be He can't be attributed to all of 1704 01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:14.880 these crimes. So between the Visalia ransacker, early morning rapists, 1705 01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:20.319 early bird rapist, and the crimes that are attributed to 1706 01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:25.119 the East Area rapist, original nightstalker, what is your conclusion 1707 01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:29.720 or conclusions regarding give us some of the conclusions. 1708 01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:31.640 I'm just dying for that. In terms of. 1709 01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:36.119 Why you've included all of these things, is there an 1710 01:25:36.159 --> 01:25:40.199 incredible phenomena of serial killer or serial rapist copycatting? 1711 01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:40.880 Tell us. 1712 01:25:42.840 --> 01:25:46.079 I've thought about that. Disc started in nineteen seventy four, 1713 01:25:46.520 --> 01:25:48.640 I responded to a call where somebody broke into a 1714 01:25:48.720 --> 01:25:51.079 house and they beat a dog to death. I mean it, 1715 01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:55.079 they beat the dog apart. The guys seen jumping off 1716 01:25:55.119 --> 01:25:58.239 the roof of the house described as sixteen eighteen military 1717 01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:01.560 fatigues pond here he hit the ground run. He didn't 1718 01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:04.600 hit and squat down. He was in movement already. Why 1719 01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:06.479 I've seen that is when I saw a movie at 1720 01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:08.640 the Seedals training and he went right over the fence 1721 01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:11.760 and to a cement. Bitch, okay, if that was him, 1722 01:26:12.479 --> 01:26:15.640 that's say he was seventeen years old. There was four 1723 01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:18.199 assaults in that general area, like within a dozen blocks. 1724 01:26:18.239 --> 01:26:21.319 I guess there's also a lot of apartment buildings. He 1725 01:26:21.359 --> 01:26:24.279 could have lived there and one of them he tried 1726 01:26:24.319 --> 01:26:27.239 to He did assaulted woman, but she managed to get away. 1727 01:26:27.359 --> 01:26:28.920 Last time the guy was seen his walking down the 1728 01:26:28.920 --> 01:26:32.600 street half naked. By the way, his legs were tanned, 1729 01:26:32.640 --> 01:26:34.359 but his butt was just no white. So we know 1730 01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:36.960 that goes out in the sun. He be gone there, 1731 01:26:37.760 --> 01:26:39.760 or he could have had a car bicycle down there, 1732 01:26:39.800 --> 01:26:42.279 which is normally did and gone off, except you don't 1733 01:26:42.319 --> 01:26:44.239 know could I mean, he could have been in the military. 1734 01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:46.560 He could when the right age had just gotten in. 1735 01:26:46.680 --> 01:26:48.560 He did his stint and asked what he was station 1736 01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:51.880 at MAK Then you go on when you follow these through, 1737 01:26:52.800 --> 01:26:56.159 the typical I should say the average description is the 1738 01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:57.039 physical is the same. 1739 01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:01.800 Lucky Land casino, asking people, what's weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 1740 01:27:02.159 --> 01:27:02.479 Lucky? 1741 01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:05.000 In line at the Delhi I guess ah, in my 1742 01:27:05.159 --> 01:27:08.600 dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have to say? 1743 01:27:08.840 --> 01:27:09.000 Yes? 1744 01:27:09.079 --> 01:27:12.000 You do in the car before my kid's PTA meeting. 1745 01:27:12.239 --> 01:27:15.600 Really, yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 1746 01:27:15.800 --> 01:27:17.000 I never went in? 1747 01:27:17.119 --> 01:27:19.119 Tell well, there you have it. You could get lucky 1748 01:27:19.159 --> 01:27:22.239 anywhere playing at lucky landsloughts dot com play for free 1749 01:27:22.399 --> 01:27:22.800 right now? 1750 01:27:23.079 --> 01:27:24.039 Are you feeling lucky? 1751 01:27:24.279 --> 01:27:26.079 We're necessary for were gonna be my long eighteen plus 1752 01:27:26.119 --> 01:27:27.000 terms conditions. 1753 01:27:26.680 --> 01:27:29.399 Plus you watch everybody else, But the age is eighteen 1754 01:27:29.640 --> 01:27:34.119 to twenty three, twenty three being most likely. There's a 1755 01:27:34.159 --> 01:27:37.319 lot of connections with the military, like he assaulted somebody 1756 01:27:37.439 --> 01:27:42.800 with a thing the military uses and trained their right 1757 01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:45.800 we believe the time. Yeah, he had a little night 1758 01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:48.920 stick which cops used to get the military. Police never 1759 01:27:49.079 --> 01:27:51.479 just called the nice stick as twelve inches long, and 1760 01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:53.800 he had a sam Baun crown belt. That kind of stuff. 1761 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:57.520 He can gives those anywhere, maybe seen in jump boots 1762 01:27:57.560 --> 01:27:59.760 a couple of times. I think once is the takedask 1763 01:27:59.800 --> 01:28:02.880 for blouse and I can't be sure that any or 1764 01:28:02.920 --> 01:28:06.119 it's been so long, so you go along with that 1765 01:28:06.199 --> 01:28:09.640 and he describe really is there's a lighteens early twenty 1766 01:28:09.720 --> 01:28:12.520 s possibility military. A couple of times he see him 1767 01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:14.920 a military posture. I saw a guy one night that 1768 01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:17.279 it probably was him. He had military posture. And other 1769 01:28:17.399 --> 01:28:20.399 times he kind of slouch and then he starts moving 1770 01:28:20.439 --> 01:28:21.720 out of the area and goes away, and then the 1771 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:24.359 script starts changing a little bit, and then he started 1772 01:28:24.399 --> 01:28:26.640 getting and all these there's two or three cans of 1773 01:28:26.760 --> 01:28:29.279 soda or something nearby. Then he goes over to count 1774 01:28:29.319 --> 01:28:32.439 Acosta County. He goes over to Santa s. Davis and 1775 01:28:32.520 --> 01:28:35.880 Yellow County, and he stocked him a desperately bounces all 1776 01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:40.560 around the place. But once he leaves here, I should 1777 01:28:40.600 --> 01:28:43.520 back up. There was five military Basis three and Sacramento two, 1778 01:28:43.560 --> 01:28:47.039 but in an hour's drive hour or less, he could 1779 01:28:47.039 --> 01:28:51.000 have been any one of those places, plus the military reserve. 1780 01:28:51.600 --> 01:28:54.520 Once he leaves here. None of his victims have anything 1781 01:28:54.560 --> 01:28:56.439 to do with the military here. About half of them 1782 01:28:56.479 --> 01:29:00.359 did it with Sunstandable. All of them has do the 1783 01:29:00.399 --> 01:29:02.600 real estate when they were here, at least that I 1784 01:29:02.640 --> 01:29:04.560 can determine some up in just no way of knowing. 1785 01:29:04.680 --> 01:29:08.800 Now when he leaves here, no military, but just connection 1786 01:29:08.920 --> 01:29:12.399 for the medical like visiting pharmacies and visiting a medical 1787 01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:16.239 employee in the family, that kind of thing. But no 1788 01:29:16.359 --> 01:29:19.399 military again. And then he goes down south and you 1789 01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:24.039 have the real estate and the medical. There's there's nothing 1790 01:29:24.119 --> 01:29:26.479 else down there. So if I was going to look 1791 01:29:26.479 --> 01:29:28.159 at real estate, I think I mentioned all ago. I 1792 01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:31.640 wouldn't look at lenders, excuse me. I would look at 1793 01:29:31.640 --> 01:29:33.159 the praisers. But there's no way to figure out who 1794 01:29:33.199 --> 01:29:37.920 they were. Insurance companies. One insurance company it was Frederick 1795 01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:40.279 Sauer's Long Long s A U D R. Take a 1796 01:29:40.439 --> 01:29:42.560 R E R. They're long out of business for guys 1797 01:29:42.640 --> 01:29:46.119 long gone. Two of the victims down south. I had 1798 01:29:46.119 --> 01:29:49.439 a policy with that company. The companies based out of Stockton, 1799 01:29:50.560 --> 01:29:52.479 and we ran every weigh in the world. And you 1800 01:29:52.560 --> 01:29:57.479 know nothing, nothing at all, but I mean, and there's 1801 01:29:57.479 --> 01:29:59.239 no way to touch it as far as I know, 1802 01:29:59.359 --> 01:30:01.359 they had no power see the anybody up here. It 1803 01:30:01.439 --> 01:30:05.800 could be just a pure coincidence. So where he worked 1804 01:30:06.279 --> 01:30:08.760 I don't know. But you can pick any crime you want, 1805 01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:11.920 put up the details and go from there forwards and backwards, 1806 01:30:11.960 --> 01:30:14.640 thinking the details and check them out, and you'll start 1807 01:30:14.680 --> 01:30:17.680 connect with ideas. I don't think he drove a cab. 1808 01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:21.119 I don't think he drove a tow truck twice once 1809 01:30:21.159 --> 01:30:23.640 it came out. Oh more than thirty years after the 1810 01:30:23.720 --> 01:30:25.520 sacking guy, he says, oh, I say about this what 1811 01:30:25.640 --> 01:30:28.279 he saw, and he described the guy taking and when 1812 01:30:28.680 --> 01:30:32.199 I thought he was the car salesman. Investos was on 1813 01:30:32.359 --> 01:30:34.600 duty one night and he saw these cops park around 1814 01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:37.720 Fourth Parkway. He seemed the last, oh not the last, 1815 01:30:37.760 --> 01:30:41.800 but the sexual assault by the ear and then he 1816 01:30:41.880 --> 01:30:43.880 runs into a car and has an encounter with it, 1817 01:30:44.279 --> 01:30:46.239 and it really bothered him. He didn't know till later 1818 01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:48.760 about this break down there. He would have stopped that car, 1819 01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:51.359 but he said, it's like a car salesman. And he 1820 01:30:51.439 --> 01:30:53.039 was wearing a coat and tie at five o'clock in 1821 01:30:53.039 --> 01:30:56.840 the morning hit downtown sack. So when he was hurting 1822 01:30:56.880 --> 01:30:59.159 all these crimes, that is opening and closing his bags. 1823 01:30:59.199 --> 01:31:01.600 He could have been changing close. I don't know what 1824 01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:04.159 he was doing. They wandered at the time if he 1825 01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:07.920 just sat a palsekeeping somewhere, you know what. Everything he took, 1826 01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:10.800 and usually he didn't always take stuff with value, but 1827 01:31:10.880 --> 01:31:13.720 sometimes you might. He took fourteen or sixteen hundred dollars 1828 01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:17.600 in one victim, and he took dime wedding rings off 1829 01:31:17.640 --> 01:31:19.439 and the other one. Sometimes he takes stuff with diet. 1830 01:31:19.479 --> 01:31:22.720 Most time he didn't. Just no way you know what's 1831 01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:25.880 going on that guy's head, No way at all. But 1832 01:31:26.279 --> 01:31:29.479 speaking that book was to say here, everybody, you got 1833 01:31:29.520 --> 01:31:33.239 the same information we had. In fact, one person emailed 1834 01:31:33.279 --> 01:31:37.000 me says, well, you know, but what after some conclusion, 1835 01:31:37.000 --> 01:31:39.800 I said, I don't know. I wrote this is we 1836 01:31:39.920 --> 01:31:41.960 have so now you can draw the same figures we did. 1837 01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:42.680 Figure where you go. 1838 01:31:43.880 --> 01:31:48.279 Yeah, yeah, when you talked about the three piece suit, 1839 01:31:48.399 --> 01:31:50.680 is interesting too that there was reports that there was 1840 01:31:50.720 --> 01:31:54.680 a suspicious real estate agent, again not asking questions that 1841 01:31:54.760 --> 01:31:58.479 were relevant for anybody purchasing real estate or a real 1842 01:31:58.600 --> 01:32:02.560 estate agent, that he wanted to know when their partners 1843 01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:04.560 would be back, or they were looking he was looking 1844 01:32:04.640 --> 01:32:07.720 at outside of the house. And not looking at the 1845 01:32:07.840 --> 01:32:10.159 kinds of things that people who were interested in real 1846 01:32:10.279 --> 01:32:12.439 estate actually wouldn't look at. 1847 01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:14.479 So I think I know what he's talking about. After 1848 01:32:14.520 --> 01:32:16.880 the mirylin Dale assault, I got a call from the 1849 01:32:16.960 --> 01:32:20.319 sergeant is to a South Stake Whole police department. He 1850 01:32:20.399 --> 01:32:23.760 saw about the guy they had up there that he 1851 01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:26.920 mentioned there was sexual assaults and women, but he didn't 1852 01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:29.439 say sexual. And every time the auficers show up, this 1853 01:32:29.520 --> 01:32:32.000 guy would screting her issue up out of breasting. I chased, 1854 01:32:32.119 --> 01:32:34.560 almost caught him, but lost him. He's thinking, this guy 1855 01:32:34.640 --> 01:32:36.640 is probably good for all of these, so he gave 1856 01:32:36.680 --> 01:32:39.159 me his name, so he's going to check to see 1857 01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:40.600 if he had been in the tophel of that night 1858 01:32:40.600 --> 01:32:43.439 of that assault. I gave it to the detective thread Basin, 1859 01:32:44.520 --> 01:32:47.079 and don't forget, I wasn't running that task force. I 1860 01:32:47.119 --> 01:32:48.760 was running my own thing. I gave it to him 1861 01:32:49.159 --> 01:32:50.920 and made a report and he went off to ray 1862 01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:54.479 Ruder whoever got it, and Bason checked into it. What 1863 01:32:54.600 --> 01:32:59.359 happened was this cow As it turns out, she owned 1864 01:32:59.399 --> 01:33:02.479 the house whereon the Dale saw it went down. She 1865 01:33:02.640 --> 01:33:06.000 sold it herself and two people showed up, one named Parker, 1866 01:33:06.039 --> 01:33:07.720 and they said, other guy, whatever the name I gave 1867 01:33:07.800 --> 01:33:10.359 him in there, he's long bed by the way and 1868 01:33:10.560 --> 01:33:14.359 has been cleared. They showed up, not together. Both of 1869 01:33:14.399 --> 01:33:17.800 them said they worked for I think it was American 1870 01:33:17.920 --> 01:33:21.920 River Realty. I didn't think of it must have existed. 1871 01:33:22.600 --> 01:33:24.359 But the one guy, she thought that was odd because 1872 01:33:24.399 --> 01:33:26.560 both came the same company. And this one guy didn't 1873 01:33:26.600 --> 01:33:29.560 make an appointment, and he walked around, looked right outside, 1874 01:33:29.680 --> 01:33:31.479 got inside and didn't look at the things at the 1875 01:33:32.199 --> 01:33:36.600 prospective for agents can we look at He's very interested 1876 01:33:36.680 --> 01:33:40.119 in her schedule of her husband and daughter, and whenever 1877 01:33:40.159 --> 01:33:41.640 she tried to look him in the eyes, he couldn't. 1878 01:33:41.680 --> 01:33:45.359 He just glared at her. He's scared real bad. Well, 1879 01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:47.439 Mason ran it down. He found out that need did. 1880 01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:49.960 One of these guys worked for the American River Reality. 1881 01:33:50.439 --> 01:33:54.439 They worked for American River Development or some development company 1882 01:33:54.640 --> 01:33:59.159 long gone. And they found out where the one guy's 1883 01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:03.600 I think we're we're living where his car was and 1884 01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:06.800 I couldn't find any more reports but asking oh for 1885 01:34:06.840 --> 01:34:08.439 a year or so ago when it came up, and 1886 01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:10.880 he didn't remember what he did with it. It was 1887 01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:14.760 lost interesting got transferred to something I don't know, but anyway, 1888 01:34:16.399 --> 01:34:19.960 modern detectives ran the guy down and they eliminated him 1889 01:34:19.960 --> 01:34:22.039 because I was looking for it and I couldn't find 1890 01:34:22.079 --> 01:34:23.960 more than a few people in the entire country with 1891 01:34:24.039 --> 01:34:27.000 his name. And about two or three years ago we 1892 01:34:27.039 --> 01:34:30.159 had a sister and ex wife and several ex wives 1893 01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:34.560 still living, and I never contacted. I thought out from 1894 01:34:34.640 --> 01:34:38.520 the homicide detectives they had eliminated him already, but he 1895 01:34:39.079 --> 01:34:41.520 really was a strange But I don't know what they 1896 01:34:41.600 --> 01:34:45.479 did about partner, even tentified him or not, but that 1897 01:34:45.720 --> 01:34:46.840 I think that's the what he's. 1898 01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:50.560 Talking In your book, you also talk about we just 1899 01:34:50.680 --> 01:34:53.079 mentioned DNA, but at the same time, you need to 1900 01:34:53.199 --> 01:34:57.800 have the evidence preserved, need to have the evidence accessible 1901 01:34:58.800 --> 01:35:01.600 to be able to do DNA. Tell us first, how 1902 01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:05.359 excited some of them, maybe yourself and some other people 1903 01:35:05.439 --> 01:35:09.279 were once you knew that the advent of DNA testing 1904 01:35:09.359 --> 01:35:12.600 had progressed to the level had had. And then tell 1905 01:35:12.680 --> 01:35:18.039 us about that the practical aspect of where is the evidence. 1906 01:35:19.479 --> 01:35:21.399 Once you get that evidence, you have to seal it 1907 01:35:21.520 --> 01:35:24.600 up the market and put your initial state onder what if? 1908 01:35:24.640 --> 01:35:27.359 And then you have to have refrigerated and you have 1909 01:35:27.479 --> 01:35:29.960 to get it to the crime land where it's going 1910 01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:33.119 to go. We were all thrilled to get that kind 1911 01:35:33.159 --> 01:35:34.880 of stuff. And you start trying to get evidence of 1912 01:35:34.880 --> 01:35:37.760 our DNA from people, you can walk up and ask 1913 01:35:37.840 --> 01:35:40.199 it most of them untill you know you can set 1914 01:35:40.279 --> 01:35:42.000 there and you want to fall him around along. Then 1915 01:35:42.119 --> 01:35:44.720 you can see him sit down and need a hamburger 1916 01:35:44.760 --> 01:35:47.439 and jacosoda and toss the straw into the garbage can. 1917 01:35:47.520 --> 01:35:49.560 You walk over and if you know you can spot 1918 01:35:49.600 --> 01:35:51.319 which one it is, you can grab that and do that. 1919 01:35:52.279 --> 01:35:53.960 Or you always go out and get the garbage can 1920 01:35:54.000 --> 01:35:56.199 tonight and you don't know who the evident DNA you're 1921 01:35:56.239 --> 01:35:59.800 getting could be anybody's. Those are the only three ways 1922 01:35:59.800 --> 01:36:04.640 you're to get them. But down south to the murders 1923 01:36:04.640 --> 01:36:09.039 that the vision lifetocker did the brother and one of 1924 01:36:09.119 --> 01:36:13.399 the victims was the I think his lawyer, it's pretty wealthy. 1925 01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:16.880 He spent about million dollars. He finally got Proposition sixty 1926 01:36:16.960 --> 01:36:19.640 nine passed. So anybody that's I think is convicted of 1927 01:36:19.720 --> 01:36:23.760 a telony has to give up their DNA. And how 1928 01:36:23.800 --> 01:36:26.199 many times they have to resulted in that case being cleared, 1929 01:36:26.199 --> 01:36:29.239 I don't know, but it's been a few times DNA 1930 01:36:29.359 --> 01:36:31.359 once you get the DNA, because they got a loan 1931 01:36:31.560 --> 01:36:34.359 file everywhere, and the FBI has to and now and 1932 01:36:34.399 --> 01:36:36.760 then they kind of picked and nose in and see 1933 01:36:36.760 --> 01:36:40.159 if they can help a little bit. And they ran 1934 01:36:40.239 --> 01:36:43.479 this guy's DNA here DNA through some kind of a program. 1935 01:36:44.439 --> 01:36:47.439 They taking about four hundred hips, came back with none 1936 01:36:48.359 --> 01:36:51.760 about money. Yet this guy's family does not have their 1937 01:36:51.840 --> 01:36:53.399 DNA hunt file anywhere. 1938 01:36:57.000 --> 01:37:01.960 What about what about DNA garnered from evidence of all 1939 01:37:02.039 --> 01:37:05.239 those again, fifty three sexual assaults and twelve murders? 1940 01:37:06.199 --> 01:37:08.399 Was that put into codis or codex? 1941 01:37:08.600 --> 01:37:11.760 And were there any Obviously there was no results, but 1942 01:37:13.119 --> 01:37:15.600 was there some anticipation that that might work. 1943 01:37:16.079 --> 01:37:18.520 No, if they got the DNA from anything, then it 1944 01:37:18.720 --> 01:37:21.359 goes into the files and it is always there, just 1945 01:37:21.479 --> 01:37:24.119 automatic checking, as I understand, because all that stuff was 1946 01:37:24.159 --> 01:37:29.880 being developed as I left, automatic automatically checked. And everybody's 1947 01:37:29.880 --> 01:37:31.920 got the fingers cross. As it does turnout from time 1948 01:37:32.000 --> 01:37:35.319 to time they hit somebody with it. This guy, I 1949 01:37:35.399 --> 01:37:38.640 think he stayed rapists between sixty seven and in the 1950 01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:42.600 sixty three years old. Obviously that could be wrong. I 1951 01:37:42.680 --> 01:37:45.119 think he's very much alive. He's very much around. He's 1952 01:37:45.199 --> 01:37:47.640 very much monitoring these boards anything else you can find 1953 01:37:48.079 --> 01:37:49.800 it fieesus ego, which is one of the things that 1954 01:37:49.880 --> 01:37:52.960 bothered me about writing this book. But he's there. He's 1955 01:37:53.000 --> 01:37:55.960 not dead. I don't think he's handicapped either. I talked 1956 01:37:56.000 --> 01:38:00.920 about how circumstances around Russ Hollis's house the kate very 1957 01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:03.399 much that the year was messing around over there for 1958 01:38:03.479 --> 01:38:07.439 a while. In it tied end with his contact and 1959 01:38:07.520 --> 01:38:09.840 the suspect that we're investigating. And as soon as we've 1960 01:38:09.840 --> 01:38:13.880 got the suspect, DNA eliminated him. All that stuff stopped. 1961 01:38:16.399 --> 01:38:18.119 So we've got to be a connection there. But that 1962 01:38:18.399 --> 01:38:22.600 that t OI, they call it person of interest. He's 1963 01:38:22.680 --> 01:38:26.079 not really cooperating. So we know who he went to school, 1964 01:38:26.119 --> 01:38:29.039 and I got a whole list of their names. They 1965 01:38:29.159 --> 01:38:32.119 read one down. He's a doctor now I don't know 1966 01:38:32.159 --> 01:38:32.920 where the others are. 1967 01:38:34.640 --> 01:38:38.800 So incredible, so incredibly, there are still leads, there's still 1968 01:38:38.880 --> 01:38:41.840 investigative routes to pursue. 1969 01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:44.640 You still have some hope with this, don't you. 1970 01:38:45.279 --> 01:38:49.199 Absolutely? I don't want to get you named anything else. 1971 01:38:49.239 --> 01:38:53.520 Pay they come in contact with the guy recently who's 1972 01:38:53.520 --> 01:38:55.800 small the right areas him and his brothers. 1973 01:38:55.600 --> 01:38:55.680 And. 1974 01:38:57.359 --> 01:38:59.439 He's I don't know. I don't think he's the guy, 1975 01:38:59.520 --> 01:39:02.439 but he's can give a lot of information that can 1976 01:39:02.520 --> 01:39:05.000 lead us to where we want to go. And now 1977 01:39:05.079 --> 01:39:07.680 there's just a whole bunch of ways to going. It's 1978 01:39:07.720 --> 01:39:10.680 a far from a cold case, and anybody wants to 1979 01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:12.600 work this thing by all means to do it, gon't 1980 01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:15.319 find out what you can. Just don't go contacting victims 1981 01:39:16.399 --> 01:39:18.399 and particularly suspects that you can avoid if you think 1982 01:39:18.399 --> 01:39:20.279 it's really him, Just give what you can and turn 1983 01:39:20.319 --> 01:39:22.159 it over to the local cup. I think in the 1984 01:39:22.199 --> 01:39:25.640 book I have a website mentioned in their email link. 1985 01:39:27.319 --> 01:39:27.840 Absolutely. 1986 01:39:28.560 --> 01:39:31.039 And then other person that could help is Michelle McNamara, 1987 01:39:31.159 --> 01:39:34.199 preinanced journalist writing the book about the Olden State Killer. 1988 01:39:34.600 --> 01:39:36.439 I think she'll be going to press pretty soon, but 1989 01:39:36.439 --> 01:39:37.680 I don't know that for a fact. 1990 01:39:39.680 --> 01:39:42.560 Tell us just briefly about Larry Crompton's book and how 1991 01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:46.199 he was involved in this East Area rapist I investigation. 1992 01:39:46.319 --> 01:39:48.520 Once, when the crime was going on, Sergeant Clavis and 1993 01:39:48.560 --> 01:39:50.439 I went over there Bell was working for quite a while. 1994 01:39:50.520 --> 01:39:52.119 He fighted me over this and went over and while 1995 01:39:52.119 --> 01:39:55.319 we did that thing, BEV was even told me. He says, 1996 01:39:55.319 --> 01:39:56.800 the guy's gonna hit in about two weeks, just going 1997 01:39:56.840 --> 01:39:58.960 the Harry over here, And he did two weeks here 1998 01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:02.119 right over there. But then Prumpt's book came out, and 1999 01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:06.720 I think about his. He mixes back and fiction. It's 2000 01:40:06.760 --> 01:40:09.079 a very large book. I think it's around five hundred 2001 01:40:09.079 --> 01:40:12.359 pages so, and what happened in Sacramento he has reports 2002 01:40:12.399 --> 01:40:14.600 down pretty good, but the rest of it is just 2003 01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:17.199 pure speculation. He doesn't know that he had my name 2004 01:40:17.239 --> 01:40:19.560 in here now, I mean where he got it, and 2005 01:40:20.359 --> 01:40:22.319 he had me doing a public speech or something, which 2006 01:40:22.359 --> 01:40:25.159 I'm not really going to do. And then he goes 2007 01:40:25.199 --> 01:40:26.720 on from there and he does the same thing. And 2008 01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:30.239 when I did mine, I put leads or tips information 2009 01:40:30.399 --> 01:40:33.800 developed well first and around the sacrament And when I 2010 01:40:33.840 --> 01:40:35.399 was at all I put in stuff he coudn't possibly 2011 01:40:35.439 --> 01:40:38.199 know about. I drew that picture of the office and 2012 01:40:38.199 --> 01:40:40.640 the house, what was happening and so forth. And then 2013 01:40:40.680 --> 01:40:42.159 in the cases I got the same thing he does. 2014 01:40:42.239 --> 01:40:44.279 I don't go in details of the sex acts because, 2015 01:40:44.279 --> 01:40:46.760 like I say, in there, if you're interested, if I 2016 01:40:46.880 --> 01:40:49.960 carry is excitement, go somewhere else. I'm simainly not going 2017 01:40:50.039 --> 01:40:51.800 to get in and all this thing. Somebody described it 2018 01:40:51.880 --> 01:40:56.680 as not being salacious. That works for me. But all 2019 01:40:56.760 --> 01:40:59.119 the information, the prowlers and that kind of stuff I've 2020 01:40:59.119 --> 01:41:01.840 done at all. Right, And then I go down to 2021 01:41:01.920 --> 01:41:04.640 original life stocker and I don't if I should have put. 2022 01:41:04.560 --> 01:41:04.880 That or not. 2023 01:41:04.960 --> 01:41:06.600 I put it in here because they tried to lay 2024 01:41:06.600 --> 01:41:09.159 it out showing a continuity of all that stuff. But 2025 01:41:09.359 --> 01:41:10.960 just so much down there. I don't really know, but 2026 01:41:11.479 --> 01:41:16.319 I do have some down there, so pretty reliable. But 2027 01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:19.000 every now and he calls me to somebody who must 2028 01:41:19.039 --> 01:41:20.039 be to go check out for you. 2029 01:41:22.920 --> 01:41:24.479 So that was that was your purpose. 2030 01:41:24.560 --> 01:41:27.760 You've mentioned that already, to clarify a bunch of things 2031 01:41:27.840 --> 01:41:30.039 and set the record straight and put out all the 2032 01:41:30.119 --> 01:41:34.159 available information. And you were the you know, you were 2033 01:41:34.239 --> 01:41:37.000 the person so intimately involved in this, and so you 2034 01:41:37.279 --> 01:41:41.039 are the guy that can write the definitive book. And 2035 01:41:41.720 --> 01:41:46.039 have there been significant developments since this book has been released? 2036 01:41:48.199 --> 01:41:49.079 Well, I could, you know? 2037 01:41:49.239 --> 01:41:49.479 For me? 2038 01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:54.680 I came up with information. I'm down south, not much 2039 01:41:54.800 --> 01:41:59.960 up here. The people are responding and they're contacting the local. 2040 01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:02.520 In fact, I got like I said that one guy 2041 01:42:02.640 --> 01:42:06.079 called me when I wish you could go away. I 2042 01:42:06.119 --> 01:42:08.520 can't help me, and the other guy just got an 2043 01:42:08.520 --> 01:42:10.800 email from him and he developed the suspect. It really 2044 01:42:10.880 --> 01:42:13.439 sounded like the guy, but they just got the DNA 2045 01:42:13.600 --> 01:42:16.399 back and it's not him, and there's some more involving 2046 01:42:16.399 --> 01:42:19.680 in the construction. In fact, I had one guy it 2047 01:42:19.840 --> 01:42:23.239 really sounds good, and he's somewhere in Utah now if 2048 01:42:23.239 --> 01:42:26.399 I don't know where, and he's connected the construction down 2049 01:42:26.439 --> 01:42:30.760 in southern California. I'd like to get his DNA. Nobody's 2050 01:42:31.000 --> 01:42:32.840 got sons around here, but I don't know if they 2051 01:42:32.920 --> 01:42:35.760 got the same father. It's a strange thing to say, 2052 01:42:35.840 --> 01:42:40.760 but the fact, and I don't know how much my 2053 01:42:41.119 --> 01:42:43.840 book has contributed to impacted in desication associally. If you 2054 01:42:43.920 --> 01:42:45.720 don't know, to help me a little bit with some 2055 01:42:45.800 --> 01:42:46.720 information that comes in. 2056 01:42:49.279 --> 01:42:51.319 Well, there's definitely been a little buzz even for this 2057 01:42:51.520 --> 01:42:54.439 program here, and there's a lot of anticipation of this interview. 2058 01:42:55.359 --> 01:42:57.880 Hopefully we've done that justice to answer some of the 2059 01:42:57.960 --> 01:42:59.760 questions for some of these people. But like you say, 2060 01:42:59.840 --> 01:43:03.720 some of these people are are very up on these cases, 2061 01:43:03.800 --> 01:43:07.880 and that's the reason for these message boards and such 2062 01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:14.880 interest in this case. Any again, I ask you for conclusions. 2063 01:43:15.239 --> 01:43:18.520 What has this case again, I'm sorry for this sort 2064 01:43:18.520 --> 01:43:21.479 of cliche question, but what has this case done for you? 2065 01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:28.520 What has it? What does it meant for you? And well, 2066 01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:29.439 how's it affected you? 2067 01:43:31.079 --> 01:43:36.039 Well, good question. It's a You know, I lived and 2068 01:43:36.079 --> 01:43:39.640 breathed this thing twenty four to seven. Practically for that 2069 01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:42.680 first whole year or whatever it was seven was I 2070 01:43:42.800 --> 01:43:47.279 forget no longer say a year, and then it always 2071 01:43:47.359 --> 01:43:49.600 comes up. Over the years. People would call me up 2072 01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:52.119 this stuff, or even though I wasn't involved, I didn't 2073 01:43:52.119 --> 01:43:55.359 remember my name or something, give me some information, asked 2074 01:43:55.399 --> 01:43:58.439 you some questions. So it's never gone away. And like 2075 01:43:58.520 --> 01:44:00.319 I said when Rest called, I figured out and get 2076 01:44:00.399 --> 01:44:01.920 rid of this. I might help him wh and get 2077 01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:04.359 rid of it writing the book, and they put it 2078 01:44:04.399 --> 01:44:07.600 all back together and get it perspective again. And now 2079 01:44:07.640 --> 01:44:09.159 and then I'll think of something that I should have 2080 01:44:09.199 --> 01:44:11.600 put in there, I shouldn't have put in there. But 2081 01:44:11.720 --> 01:44:14.199 I just really really want to see this guy caught. 2082 01:44:14.720 --> 01:44:16.720 The people I worked with in the last three years 2083 01:44:16.760 --> 01:44:20.560 probably poured them and died. I rapidly, you know, I'm 2084 01:44:20.640 --> 01:44:22.279 right up there almost as those as they are. The 2085 01:44:22.359 --> 01:44:24.439 ones who win are eve older. I guess, so I 2086 01:44:24.560 --> 01:44:27.760 pretty much get done. Somebody kissed this pastor let me 2087 01:44:27.880 --> 01:44:30.920 know who he is. But the one favor I want 2088 01:44:32.039 --> 01:44:33.680 when they arrest him. I want to be there when 2089 01:44:33.680 --> 01:44:36.119 they put the handcuffs on. I want to test them 2090 01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:43.000 to see if they're a good This is yeah. 2091 01:44:43.239 --> 01:44:48.159 Absolutely. I want to thank you very much for coming 2092 01:44:48.199 --> 01:44:52.000 on and talking about this. If people were to want 2093 01:44:52.039 --> 01:44:54.720 to contact you, do you have a website or Facebook 2094 01:44:54.840 --> 01:44:56.560 or how would they personally contact you? 2095 01:44:57.039 --> 01:44:57.399 They would? 2096 01:44:59.439 --> 01:44:59.720 Okay? 2097 01:45:00.000 --> 01:45:03.600 So can I can messages come through this program? I 2098 01:45:03.680 --> 01:45:06.640 mean I do have a blog that they could answer. 2099 01:45:06.640 --> 01:45:08.800 I ask questions, I could refer them to you. I 2100 01:45:08.840 --> 01:45:10.439 could forward them to you. 2101 01:45:11.479 --> 01:45:13.680 I'd like. We've had a couple of calls this evening already. 2102 01:45:13.720 --> 01:45:15.920 I don't have that as as I told you the 2103 01:45:16.000 --> 01:45:21.279 component of the program, But if if they were so inclined, 2104 01:45:22.279 --> 01:45:23.760 could I forward messages to you? 2105 01:45:26.439 --> 01:45:28.199 Yeah? I have one thing I can add for you. 2106 01:45:28.319 --> 01:45:30.319 Somebody several people can say what I admit when I 2107 01:45:30.359 --> 01:45:33.279 said the guy probably behind our house didn't that's seventy 2108 01:45:33.359 --> 01:45:36.199 years old. So many people think that the stay a 2109 01:45:36.279 --> 01:45:39.920 rapist today is seventy years or more. The guy I 2110 01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:42.640 saw back there was I don't know how old he was. 2111 01:45:42.760 --> 01:45:44.840 If I make a while, I guess i'd say fifty 2112 01:45:44.960 --> 01:45:48.840 sixty down stay a rapist, I just make it. Really, 2113 01:45:48.920 --> 01:45:52.359 I just worsered Rome. He definitely was not cold enough 2114 01:45:52.399 --> 01:45:55.000 to be what the year they're thinking about. If you 2115 01:45:55.079 --> 01:45:57.039 go back and look at some of those age descriptions, 2116 01:45:57.039 --> 01:46:01.960 I think eight hay ninety years old today. Right the 2117 01:46:02.039 --> 01:46:05.039 guys alive, do. 2118 01:46:05.039 --> 01:46:09.239 You I know that you probably contacted or that was 2119 01:46:09.319 --> 01:46:13.279 offered some kind of FBI criminal profiling over the years. 2120 01:46:15.159 --> 01:46:20.600 Did they recommend any way, any method, any technique that 2121 01:46:20.720 --> 01:46:24.000 they thought might work to get this guy to resurface 2122 01:46:24.079 --> 01:46:27.159 on his own or to contact authorities, not. 2123 01:46:27.359 --> 01:46:28.079 That I know of. 2124 01:46:28.199 --> 01:46:30.439 I have no doubt he probably has. He's tryed to 2125 01:46:30.560 --> 01:46:33.359 on these message boards, posting or something like that. The 2126 01:46:33.479 --> 01:46:35.920 one thing I just learned about and the guy. What 2127 01:46:36.039 --> 01:46:39.600 are the people they have to relies on for these profiles. 2128 01:46:39.600 --> 01:46:42.239 I guess if you look at the map in Sacramento 2129 01:46:43.439 --> 01:46:46.439 of that area and really roughly drawn, just start over 2130 01:46:46.560 --> 01:46:49.039 like wood park Way, that that's fifth one I was 2131 01:46:49.079 --> 01:46:53.640 on at Park swings around through Cordova and heads west 2132 01:46:53.720 --> 01:46:56.680 down to lot Riviera. Right in the middle of all 2133 01:46:56.760 --> 01:47:00.239 that near Coil Avenue. Coil sem One Avenue was the 2134 01:47:00.479 --> 01:47:04.439 Mercy Samuin Hospital. There's a big area there and he 2135 01:47:04.600 --> 01:47:07.199 never struck in there, no prowling or anything in there. Well, 2136 01:47:07.239 --> 01:47:09.159 that was what other thing I didn't We just learned 2137 01:47:09.199 --> 01:47:13.479 recently to take Clark to homicide and sacramental figuring this out. 2138 01:47:13.800 --> 01:47:16.479 I knew the guy prowled day and night. It seemed like, 2139 01:47:16.560 --> 01:47:18.640 you know, he was always out there. But he might 2140 01:47:18.720 --> 01:47:22.600 prowl a tonight. Come on, he goes there, you'd be 2141 01:47:22.960 --> 01:47:25.560 the next night. C he goes back there and does assault, 2142 01:47:25.560 --> 01:47:27.720 and they think goes there were the d We did 2143 01:47:27.760 --> 01:47:30.159 it every night, and I don't know, but he didn't 2144 01:47:30.359 --> 01:47:33.039 prowl the same area every night. And sometimes he did, 2145 01:47:33.560 --> 01:47:35.960 sometimes he didn't. He just didn't have that much continuity. 2146 01:47:36.520 --> 01:47:40.239 But he did bounce around, and I'm pretty sure I 2147 01:47:40.319 --> 01:47:41.760 know how I picked some of his sickness. 2148 01:47:44.720 --> 01:47:49.560 Incredible the work that this must have drove you around 2149 01:47:49.600 --> 01:47:53.560 a bend and reduced your sleep and relaxation. 2150 01:47:54.720 --> 01:47:57.159 I know. It's just I felt a little bit. 2151 01:47:57.199 --> 01:47:59.640 Just reading the book because again, like everyone becomes a 2152 01:47:59.680 --> 01:48:02.800 slew so I can imagine the actual sleuth to yourself 2153 01:48:03.199 --> 01:48:07.079 working this for so many years, again not saying drive 2154 01:48:07.119 --> 01:48:09.760 it driven you nuts, because obviously you're here and you're saying, 2155 01:48:10.239 --> 01:48:13.560 but again, there must have been many, many and sleepless 2156 01:48:13.680 --> 01:48:18.560 nights and I and I hope that somehow somewhere you 2157 01:48:18.640 --> 01:48:21.039 can get that dream come true. And I think it 2158 01:48:21.039 --> 01:48:23.039 would be a dream for a lot of people, including 2159 01:48:23.079 --> 01:48:25.840 some of the victims and their loved ones. So it 2160 01:48:25.880 --> 01:48:29.800 would be a great happy ending to a very very 2161 01:48:29.920 --> 01:48:30.640 tragic story. 2162 01:48:30.920 --> 01:48:33.960 Really, really, when they transferred me out, I wasn't really 2163 01:48:34.000 --> 01:48:36.560 that upset because I'd done what I could. You know, 2164 01:48:36.560 --> 01:48:38.000 I was blocked a lot of things they're trying to 2165 01:48:38.039 --> 01:48:40.119 do and other stuff just because it just didn't work. 2166 01:48:40.880 --> 01:48:43.000 And I took any It was two and a half 2167 01:48:43.079 --> 01:48:45.439 months off, and then I could have gone back and 2168 01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:46.840 done it, but I went somewhere else. 2169 01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:53.000 It's fascinating to sorry, go ahead, I would great. 2170 01:48:53.079 --> 01:48:55.800 I wanted to. 2171 01:48:55.800 --> 01:48:57.800 Say, for those that are listening to this is the 2172 01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:02.039 kind of book that I might self really really enjoyed 2173 01:49:02.119 --> 01:49:05.199 because it's as a true crime reader, there is the 2174 01:49:05.319 --> 01:49:10.159 formulaic true crime. There is very many great writers that 2175 01:49:10.279 --> 01:49:14.359 do some add some fictional aspects to it, like dialogue 2176 01:49:14.399 --> 01:49:16.680 that they couldn't of course been privy to at all. 2177 01:49:18.359 --> 01:49:20.119 Lots of great authors have access to. 2178 01:49:20.239 --> 01:49:23.840 All the players, including the prosecution and even the killer themselves. 2179 01:49:24.079 --> 01:49:27.399 Very fascinating, but this book is for the kind of 2180 01:49:27.439 --> 01:49:31.239 true crime reader that well I've had listening to programs 2181 01:49:31.239 --> 01:49:35.359 about the actual detectives in the actual investigations and what 2182 01:49:35.600 --> 01:49:37.399 they have done and what they have seen and what 2183 01:49:37.479 --> 01:49:40.720 they've experienced. In your book is the ultimate in that 2184 01:49:41.960 --> 01:49:45.439 you find out exactly how you felt, what you did, 2185 01:49:45.600 --> 01:49:48.880 how other people felt. And it is a bygone time 2186 01:49:49.079 --> 01:49:54.039 where a past time where technology wasn't there, intercommunication between 2187 01:49:54.079 --> 01:49:58.199 departments wasn't there. The idea that you understood serial killers 2188 01:49:58.359 --> 01:50:01.239 was of course not well known. 2189 01:50:01.079 --> 01:50:01.600 At that time. 2190 01:50:01.720 --> 01:50:04.680 That information was not people didn't know about it. 2191 01:50:04.800 --> 01:50:08.960 So it is a bygone time, a time where these 2192 01:50:09.880 --> 01:50:13.720 rapists and killers enjoyed some impunity just because of the 2193 01:50:13.840 --> 01:50:17.960 time and lack of experience by authorities. Uh. It's a 2194 01:50:18.079 --> 01:50:20.760 fascinating book, and I want to thank you very much 2195 01:50:20.800 --> 01:50:23.279 for coming on and talking a little bit about hunting 2196 01:50:23.319 --> 01:50:28.359 a psychopath, the East Area Rapist original Nightstalker investigation. 2197 01:50:28.600 --> 01:50:30.039 Thank you very much for coming on. 2198 01:50:30.800 --> 01:50:36.800 Detective Richard Shelby did some good well I'm sure we'll 2199 01:50:36.800 --> 01:50:39.159 get some responses and I will forward them to you. 2200 01:50:39.359 --> 01:50:39.640 I guess. 2201 01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:43.520 Otherwise people should just contact the Sacramento Sheriff's Department. 2202 01:50:43.920 --> 01:50:48.600 Yes, Protective Clark is what it works in between homicides. 2203 01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:54.399 He worked, okay, well, very good, very good. 2204 01:50:54.560 --> 01:50:55.880 Well, thank you very much, Richard. 2205 01:50:55.920 --> 01:50:58.079 And you have yourself a great eating and I hope 2206 01:50:58.159 --> 01:51:00.760 something really good can come as a result of this 2207 01:51:00.840 --> 01:51:01.760 interview in your book. 2208 01:51:01.840 --> 01:51:04.399 Thank you very much, thank you, good night. 2209 02:49:01.600 --> 02:49:02.399 As