WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:07.559 It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBS, Boston's news radio. 2 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:09.080 And thank you, Emma. 3 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:11.439 I like your energy. I hope I can match it 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:12.800 for the next four hours. 5 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.720 My name is Dan Rey. Yeah, I amma. How are you? 6 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.160 I'm good? Are you? I'm doing great? You sound great, 7 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:19.879 you sound great. 8 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:23.440 You're filling in tonight for Nicole, but I'll tell you 9 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:24.280 you did a great job. 10 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:27.320 So thanks much. Thank you for the intro. All right, 11 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:29.399 we'll talk soon. Hope to see you soon. 12 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:32.479 Well, good evening, everyone, welcome and in we start another 13 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:35.840 full week of Nightside. Be here with you all week long, 14 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:40.920 Monday through Friday. I am delighted tonight to do a 15 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:45.119 program that we've done once a year now for this 16 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:50.039 is our eighteenth annual college Admissions Panel. I think this 17 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:54.799 is a critically important program for everyone who listens to Nightside, 18 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:57.560 and I hope we've mentioned this and promoted this enough 19 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.479 so that if you're a parent or a grand or 20 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:04.239 betty at a student in high school thinking about applying 21 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:04.760 to college. 22 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:06.319 We have two. 23 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:10.799 Legendary emissions directors with us tonight. I'm going to start 24 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:13.680 off with Grant Goslin. He's the dean of Undergraduate and 25 00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:19.239 mission Singular and Financial Aid at Boston College. Grant has 26 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:25.280 been with us now for several years. He succeeds John Mahoney, 27 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:28.799 who has retired, but in the meantime also was the provo. 28 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.079 You've always had great, big shoes to fill, Grant, but 29 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:33.359 you're doing a fabulous job. 30 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:34.079 Thanks so much. 31 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:36.719 This is your fourth or fifth year with us. Maybe 32 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.719 maybe it's a little more tell us, tell us how 33 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:40.239 many years you've been with us doing this. 34 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:43.400 You know it's been a few. It's good to be 35 00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:45.840 back with you, Dan. I really appreciate the opportunity to 36 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:47.799 engage with you and your listeners tonight. 37 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:54.640 Well, I'll tell you you admissions folks, men and women 38 00:01:56.040 --> 00:02:01.000 do great work. I know that that Bill Fitzsimmons, who's 39 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:05.040 also with us tonight and is going to be participating 40 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:08.800 in his eighteenth panel. First one we did was two 41 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:14.039 thousand and seven. Bill Fitzsimmons is the Harvard College Dean 42 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.919 of Admissions and Financial Aid. Bill fitz Simmons, welcome back. 43 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:24.039 You've had a legendary career from being a student and 44 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.719 an athlete at Harvard and have worked in admissions there 45 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:30.960 for I'm not going to say how many years, but 46 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:35.800 it's been a few decades and you're a legendary person 47 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.599 across the country. So thanks so much for coming back 48 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:42.000 for year eighteen. Bill fitz Simmons, how are you tonight. 49 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.599 Well, thank you, and thank you again for your commitment 50 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:48.960 to higher education for all these years, and thanks to 51 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:52.919 Amma for giving us that energy for us to have 52 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.719 another great show. Because when you think about what's happened 53 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.639 in over those eighteen years and how higher education has 54 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.759 become much more critical in lots of different ways for 55 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:09.520 people in America around the world, it also, at the 56 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:13.439 same time, things that are happening not just at BC 57 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.840 but at Harvard, but even on the newscast, you know, 58 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:19.879 things that are happening in the state of Massachusetts with 59 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.879 community colleges and junior colleges. And it's always good for 60 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:28.080 us to remember that about eighty percent of the students 61 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:32.400 who go to college in the United States go to 62 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:36.360 public universities. And it's also good just to remember that 63 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:40.400 as you step back from it all, most of the 64 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:44.800 rest of the world sees America's higher education institutions as 65 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:48.240 the gold standard. So there's a lot for us to 66 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:51.919 live up to. But there's an awful lot going on 67 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:56.400 just in this state alone. That makes me very optimistic 68 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:57.159 for the future. 69 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:02.000 Well, both of you, like you just to give some 70 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.520 folks an idea, this is the busy season. Well every 71 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.599 year is that? Every time of years of busy seasons? 72 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:15.319 For an admission dean or admissions director Bill fitz Simmons, 73 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:19.360 give me an idea about you at Harvard. You actually 74 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:25.000 go out and seek out people for admissions and application 75 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:31.360 to Harvard University. You're out finding people. How many states 76 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:34.480 in your career in the last few years have you 77 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:38.120 traveled to just basically tell people in different parts of 78 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.680 the country about higher education and about Harvard University. 79 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.959 Well, and I think you've got the order write a 80 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.600 whole idea as we go out across the country and 81 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.800 across the world is to talk about the value of 82 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:54.360 higher education. But even before we get there, not everybody 83 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:58.639 has to go to college. What everybody has, I hope, 84 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.639 an ambition to do is to make the best of 85 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.800 their talents, you know, whatever they might be and wherever 86 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.920 those talents might lead. We go out with four or 87 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:13.040 five different travel groups every year around the United States 88 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:17.399 and around the world, and you know, we hit over 89 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:20.160 a two or three year period, we hit every state 90 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.240 in the US. And you know, we're also doing a 91 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:29.040 lot now virtually, so we're doing things with Zoom recruiting 92 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:33.000 across the country and around the world. And you know, 93 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:36.600 when you think about you were speculator, and you and 94 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.480 I are pretty much contemporaries, Dan as you know, both 95 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.480 college goaltenders back in our days most successful. 96 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.759 I cannot compare to what you did at Harvard. So 97 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:50.360 I'm embarrassed. 98 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:55.600 Well, we all tried to do exactly the same thing. 99 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:59.160 And I think I've been in admission since nineteen seventy two, 100 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:04.680 been at Harvard since nineteen sixty three, and it's incredible 101 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:08.120 to me. I mean, the Harvard I attended was four 102 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.759 to one male to female. Now there are slightly more 103 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:15.480 women than men. There were very few first generation college 104 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:19.480 students like me at Harvard at that time, and now 105 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.560 over twenty percent of Harvard students of first gen and 106 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:28.000 about twenty percent of Hell grant recipients. There were very 107 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:32.759 few students of color in my era, and today there 108 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:39.279 are many. The idea is that there is talent everywhere, 109 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:44.000 but honestly, opportunity is not possible. It's not there for 110 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.800 a lot of people in the same degree as it 111 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.720 is for others. So the whole idea is to make 112 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:55.040 sure we get word out to talented students everywhere literally 113 00:06:55.120 --> 00:07:00.000 this country and other countries that they have an opportunity 114 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:04.120 to developed their talents. That's that's the idea, And they 115 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.160 don't have to end up at one of our universities. 116 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:09.560 But the whole idea, we hope is that they'll end 117 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:11.920 up making the most of their own talents. But these 118 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:13.279 places have changed. 119 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:13.519 Well. 120 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:18.000 Over half the students at Harvard now are on need 121 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.920 based financial aid. We're spending two hundred and sixty million 122 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:24.079 dollars a year right now on undergraduate financial aid. And 123 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:27.879 as I grew up in Weymouth, we ran a gas 124 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:30.160 station and a mom and pop store, and I was 125 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:35.000 lucky enough to get to Archbishop Williams and then eventually 126 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:40.439 to Harvard. But I will say it's a world. Harvard 127 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:47.160 and BC have changed in remarkable ways over this period 128 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.519 of time, and we will get even better, we hope, 129 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:50.800 in the years ahead. 130 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:53.240 Well I'll tell you again. I just want you to know. 131 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:58.000 If anyone who knows Fitz Simmons was great goaltender at Harvard, 132 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:00.639 my nickname in Boston State was redline. So we'll leave 133 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.879 that part of the conversation all from now. Nothing to 134 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.720 compare Grant. I want to come back to you. BC 135 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:14.120 has in the last fifty years really transformed itself tremendous leadership. 136 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:19.240 How many applications is Boston College receiving for how many 137 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:21.399 spots these days? It's very competitive. 138 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:25.399 It has become Dan, you know, you're right. The last 139 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.720 fifty years have really been I think the modern story 140 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:32.759 for Boston College. We were founded back in eighteen sixty 141 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:38.240 three and at the time were really charged with educating 142 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.879 the sons of immigrants that were left a few educational 143 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.840 opportunities at the time, and we were largely a regional 144 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:49.360 institution for most of our history up until the early 145 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:54.679 nineteen seventies when we were facing some pretty significant financial headwinds, 146 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.519 and the leadership at the time, Father Monan and succeeded 147 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:02.200 by Father Lay He had really put Boston College on 148 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:07.639 a course for growth regionally, but then nationally and internationally 149 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:11.279 as well. We receive somewhere between thirty five and forty 150 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.840 thousand applications a year. We're looking for an entering class 151 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:19.440 of about twenty four hundred students, you know, and just 152 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:23.440 as Bill said, you know, our task is really about 153 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:27.919 how do we reach students wherever they are to help 154 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:32.240 them think about college as an option. As Bill said, 155 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:35.120 not everyone will desire to go to college, but we 156 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:37.679 hope that students are at least thinking about that as 157 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.399 an option. And the reality is high schools across the 158 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:44.320 country and around the world are not all the same, 159 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:46.919 They're not all provided the same resources, and there are 160 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:51.159 students that just don't have the wherewithal of their knowledge 161 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:55.480 to really get out there and understand the opportunities that 162 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.519 are available to them. And so it's our job to 163 00:09:58.559 --> 00:09:59.919 make sure that as we get out in the road, 164 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:04.960 we're not only visiting schools that routinely send us applicants 165 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:07.600 each year, you know, feeder schools if you will, but 166 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.480 that we're we're making sure that we're attending schools that 167 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:15.000 are are opportunist, opportunistic schools for us, those where we 168 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:19.480 see great potential but we just haven't seen the application 169 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:23.120 volume yet. We work really hard to get into both 170 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:26.879 private and public high schools, to work with community based 171 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.600 organizations that that really fill the gap around college counseling 172 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:35.679 at at many underfunded public high schools where you know, 173 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.840 if you look in the state of California, for example, 174 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:40.759 there there are nine hundred students in a public high 175 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:44.279 school to every one school counselor, and that school counselor 176 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:49.120 is not earmarked as a college counselor. There they're truancy officers, 177 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:53.559 their academic advisors, their mental health counselors, and they also 178 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.200 do a little bit of college counseling. And so community 179 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:00.159 based organizations are an opportunity for colleges to pair up 180 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.759 with nonprofits that are really filling that gap and providing 181 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.000 students with access to information about colleges. And you know, 182 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:11.720 Bills Team and mine, you know, we're out there really 183 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.840 trying to make sure that students understand that opportunity is there. 184 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:19.480 And just like Harvard, you know, Boston College is also 185 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:23.399 deeply committed to need based financial aid and making sure 186 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:27.200 that every student who qualifies has the funds they need 187 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.879 to be able to accept the offer of admission. 188 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.399 We're talking about two admissions directors. Bill Fitzimmons Harvard College 189 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.480 is Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. You've just heard 190 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:42.080 Grant Goslin, the Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial aid 191 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:46.120 at Boston College. I have a lot of questions. I'm 192 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:48.759 sure people in our audience does, and I'm hoping that 193 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.159 there are students out there tonight who are embarking on 194 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:56.080 this on this search, this search for the right school, 195 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:00.279 for the school that best fits their need, their talent. 196 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:01.720 We want to talk. 197 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:05.919 About the difference between SAT exams and ACT exams, the 198 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:10.840 importance of high school grades, teacher recommendations, essays that students 199 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:17.480 might might might be asked to write about themselves, all 200 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:22.639 sorts of questions about FAFTSA, which is that Federal Aid 201 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:26.440 for Student Loan Applications, which now I think there's been 202 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.360 some hiccups on that this year, so we have I 203 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:30.960 have a lot of questions, but I hope all of 204 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.240 you out there, whether your parents, grandparents, students do not 205 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:39.120 hesitate six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six seven, nine, three, one, 206 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.240 ten thirty. Those are the two ways to get through. 207 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:43.240 I'll try, We'll try to get to as many of 208 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:45.639 you as possible, I promise, but you have to do 209 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:46.720 your part in that style. 210 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:48.759 In My name is Dan Ray. This is Nightside. 211 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:52.799 Really appreciative of the time that Bill Fitzimmons and Grant Goslin, 212 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.279 Bill of Harvard, granted BC. The admissions directors at both 213 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.720 of those great institutions will spend with us tonight. This 214 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:03.440 is their high season there in the process of formulating 215 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.919 acceptances which will be sent out. I'm sure early admissions 216 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:09.840 will be coming out probably by the end of the month, 217 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:13.279 and then the other admissions will be out. They're still 218 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:18.519 they're reading, reading, reading, It's a gargantuan, humongous, herculean task, 219 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:20.679 and for them to take some time for us tonight, 220 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.120 it's really very much appreciated. Back on Night's Side as 221 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:27.600 we conduct our eighteenth annual college Admissions panel. 222 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.279 Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World 223 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:34.519 Nightside Studios on w b Z the News Radio. 224 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:36.360 Welcome back. 225 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:39.440 This is our eighteenth annual college admissions panel. This is 226 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:43.039 an opportunity for you, whether you're a student, a parent, grandparent, 227 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:47.039 or family friend, to speak directly with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard, 228 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:51.639 Grant Goslin of Boston College. It is their staff which 229 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:55.200 decides who's accepted and who isn't. But more importantly, we 230 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.519 want to try to guide you. We're not just talking 231 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.200 about Harvard or BC tonight. Of course, two of the 232 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.639 pre eminent schools here in the Boston area. But talking 233 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:07.080 about other issues, So let me start off with again, 234 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.840 assuming that the student is interested in going to college, 235 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:11.559 and there are a lot of successful people who never 236 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.480 apply to college. They get out in their own in 237 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:16.399 their own business or in the military or whatever, and 238 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:22.840 they're very successful people. How important would you say high 239 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:26.759 school grades are? I know students focus on the Scholastic 240 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.480 Aptitude test, whether it's the SAT or the ACT. 241 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:33.159 But give us a quick review. 242 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.679 Bill will start with you, maybe on the importance of 243 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.759 the marathon of the four years in high school compared 244 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.279 to that one day performance on the SAT or the ACTS. 245 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.480 Well, I think you've pretty well summed it up in 246 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:53.360 introducing the question doing well on a day to day 247 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:57.159 basis in anything. It's the foundation, you know, for any 248 00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:01.720 kind of achievement or excellent. So let's, you know, let's 249 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:06.440 start out with doing well in each and every subject. 250 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:10.159 We hope as you go through the process, if you're 251 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.960 not so lucky to be in a school that is 252 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:21.720 offering absolute top academic opportunities, there are things available and 253 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:27.360 for example, in con academy sort of free free test prep, 254 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.679 but also free ideas on how to study different subjects 255 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.039 as you're going through high school. So let's start with that, 256 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:40.159 and I want I turn the next step having to 257 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:43.759 do with standardized tests, probably over to you Grant. 258 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:49.360 Yeah, sure, Bill. You know, I think the environment around 259 00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:52.399 standardized test has changed a lot in recent years. I 260 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.360 think over the last thirty or forty years, there have 261 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:58.720 been a small number of colleges that have offered test 262 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:02.440 optional admission plan that tended to grow a bit through 263 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.879 the two thousands, the twenty tens, but really when the 264 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.000 pandemic hit in twenty twenty, in the next cycle, after 265 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.080 the pandemic hit, many colleges and universities realized that test 266 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.720 centers were closed and students really didn't have access to 267 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:24.679 take advantage of testing. If a student could take an exam, 268 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.279 they were doing so under duress, right if the student 269 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.600 behind them was coughing, they were wondering, you know, might 270 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:33.120 they get sick next? And so I think there was 271 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:36.840 a huge shift coming out of the pandemic where the 272 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:40.080 vast majority of colleges, even those that had not previously 273 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:45.240 been test optional, moved into that environment. And then once 274 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.720 the pandemic subsided, and you know, we moved into a 275 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:53.120 different state. Things have begun to evolve again, right, And 276 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.720 there are some schools that have re implemented testing, others 277 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.759 that you know, still remain test optional. But what test 278 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.759 scores have done is they've allowed colleges and universities to 279 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:10.559 understand student performance in context, both nationally and globally. Where 280 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.359 high school curriculums can vary so widely, it can be 281 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:20.240 difficult sometimes to really understand a student's strength and potential, 282 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:22.960 and test scores can do that. There is a predictive 283 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.799 element to them. Boston College is an institution that remains 284 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.480 test optional, though this year we have added a recommendation 285 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:35.079 to students that if they have scores, we're recommending that 286 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:40.759 they submit them because they again do provide some additional context, 287 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:43.440 an additional opportunity for us to advocate for a student. 288 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:49.680 And honestly, during the test optional time that we went through, 289 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.480 there were a lot of students that really struggled with 290 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.400 whether to submit scores. They looked at a mid fifty 291 00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:58.640 percent range that a school might provide and they said, well, 292 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.319 I'm in the middle fifty percent of that range, right, 293 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.640 And so there were students opting not to submit scores 294 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.279 when they were scoring in the ninety seventh or ninety 295 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.480 eighth percentile nationally, but in their mind, if they weren't 296 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.759 above that fifty percent range, they weren't competitive. And that's 297 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:16.880 really not how we make decisions. Test scores are when 298 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:21.039 they're used, they're one factor of many that provide again, 299 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.160 another data element for us to make informed decisions. 300 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:28.440 Again, it is a complex process and it can be 301 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:30.559 a daunting process. And what we're trying to do tonight 302 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:33.519 with Bill fitz Simmons and Grant Goslin, Bill from Harvard 303 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.000 for many years, granted at Boston College, is to kind 304 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.720 of demystify some of this. There's all sorts of other 305 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:41.880 topics that I want to ask them about. But when 306 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.759 we get back, we're going to start with phone calls. 307 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:46.359 And as far as I'm concerned, we can go phone 308 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.640 calls for as long as you want to keep the 309 00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.680 phones ringing six one set, well, not the entire night, 310 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:55.839 that's for sure, But the gentlemen have committed to an hour, 311 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.200 and if the phone calls persist, I think we might 312 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:03.039 be able to convince Steven a little longer. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten, 313 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.160 thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. My 314 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.240 name is Dan Ray. I'm just a host of the show. 315 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:11.839 I'm I'm learning and continue to learn. Every time that 316 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:14.599 we've had one of these college admissions panels, there are 317 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.200 a whole bunch of topics that I have questions on. 318 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.680 Don't rely upon me to ask you a question, though, 319 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.440 because I might just not think of it, and you're 320 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:23.400 thinking of it right now. 321 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:24.079 Give us a call. 322 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:26.799 Coming back on Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard and 323 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:31.000 Grant Goslin of Boston College. They are both the top 324 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:35.279 guys in the admission department. The titles are similar. Harvard 325 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:39.160 College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, Grant Goslin, Dean 326 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.200 of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid. 327 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:42.960 Back on night. 328 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.519 Side, calls and questions and students out there pick up 329 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:49.079 that fall. We want to hear from you, most importantly. 330 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:55.720 With Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 331 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.119 We have not even scratched the surface, but we have 332 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:03.640 with us the eighteenth Annual College Admissions Paneled. Bill Fitzsimmons, 333 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:08.160 Harvard College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, and Grant Goslin, 334 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.920 Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid. 335 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:12.240 At Boston College. 336 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.359 Now gonna get right to phone calls, and as I say, 337 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.079 rule it will take him as many as we can. 338 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:23.519 No begging, no pleading, only getting. This is a wonderful 339 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:27.720 opportunity for you to reach either Bill Fitzsimmons or Grant Gostlin. 340 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.359 So let's go first off to Joy. What a great name. 341 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:33.799 Joy is in the great state of New York. Joy, 342 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.240 Welcome to night Side. You're al with Bill Fitzsimmons and 343 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:37.599 Grant Goslin. Go right ahead. 344 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.440 Oh, gentlemen, thank you so much for taking my call. 345 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:44.119 Please don't make fun of my accent. I'm from Long Island, 346 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:48.440 New York. You're gonna you're gonna love my name, all right. 347 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:51.000 I'm glad you like my name because I purposely married 348 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.839 a guy who's last name Robin my first name. So 349 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:59.039 I'm actually Joy Mouley. Okay, that's easy to You can't 350 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:05.839 make that at So my question is, gentlemen, thanks again 351 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.119 for doing this. It's super insightful for parents like me. Grant. 352 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.960 I am a very proud Boston College alum class of 353 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:17.279 ninety four. Boston College gave me a chance in life. 354 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.880 I'm first generation college and you know, not having parents 355 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:23.920 who went to college. I don't know what I did 356 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:27.160 on my application to have BC accept me. I can 357 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.240 tell you that if I had to apply today, with 358 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.240 my SAT scores and my grades, I highly doubt BC 359 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:35.640 would accept me as a student. My question is I 360 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:40.559 hear a lot from parents where their kid is a valedatorian, 361 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.880 a fludatorian. They've got exceptional grades like four point six GPAs, 362 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.720 and they discovered the cure for cancer, and they have 363 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.839 like remarkable resumes, but they don't get into the colleges 364 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:54.839 that they want to get into. So for a parent 365 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.720 like me, I encourage my kids to excel, but I 366 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.920 also don't want to kill themselves either getting the grades 367 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.839 and the scores. How do you all look at an application? 368 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:08.759 Do you look at it holistically? Is it in their essays? Like, 369 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:11.519 what do you guys you know, really look at I mean, 370 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:14.240 I know greeves and SATs are important, but let's say, 371 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.599 for example, that they do well in school, but their 372 00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:18.440 SATs are alton on the weak side no matter how 373 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:20.599 many times they take it. You know, is there is 374 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.920 there a strategy? Is there a recipe for how you 375 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.000 look at the application? 376 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.079 Okay, let's let's start off with Grant, we're not going 377 00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:28.880 to cut you off. We're going to get a reaction 378 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.000 from Bill fitz Simmons too, But since you're a VC, 379 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:33.880 since you're an Eagle, we'll start off with Grant Goslin 380 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:35.559 with this question. Go ahead, Grant. 381 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:37.759 Well, Joy, it's nice to meet you. Thanks so much 382 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:39.960 for calling in. Always good to meet a fellow b 383 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:43.960 C alum. Thanks for your question. You know, this process 384 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:49.160 is is stressful and it is challenging. Of course. You know, 385 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:54.000 we institutions like those that Bill and I represent are 386 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:58.759 really in a fortunate position where we have applicant pools 387 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:03.880 that are really full of students that impress us as 388 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:08.240 we work through their applications. You know, each each student 389 00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:11.680 we look at, we're looking at a whole host of things. 390 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:16.519 And you mentioned holistic admission and absolutely both our institutions. 391 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:19.160 I certainly can let Bill talk about how things work 392 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.359 at Harvard, but you know, at Boston College where we're 393 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:25.119 starting with the transcripts, and as we talked about in 394 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:28.720 the last segment, if students submit scores, we're going to 395 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.759 look at those as well. But the reality is that 396 00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:37.200 at the most selective institutions, there's a difference between being 397 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.119 being qualified and being competitive, right, And most of our 398 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.960 applicants are qualified, right. They could come to our institutions 399 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.119 and do very well and graduate and be quite successful 400 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.000 in life. But I've always explained that it's the applicant pool, 401 00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:56.480