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Speaker 1: What is up?

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Speaker 2: Fellasiko's I Am Dan Valley coming at you with the one,

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the only, this certified fantabulous. Mister Grant Hughes, we as

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a collective at the Hardwood Knocks NBA podcast would like

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to wish you a happy back from All Star Break.

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We were recording this though before the games started, so

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we hope you enjoyed the Bobblehead like mini.

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Speaker 1: Episode we put out.

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Speaker 2: Its a YouTube exclusive, and we also hope you enjoyed

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we finally published the Mount Rushmore, every team's Mount Rushmore

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since two thousand, Like granted I did?

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Speaker 1: Is that over the offseason for br Yeah?

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Speaker 3: What is time? Probably?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but they let us post it, so we

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hope you enjoyed that. Go check it out if you haven't.

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And now it's time. This is the last pre recorded

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thing we have for Karma rankings. Grant, we're trying to

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figure out which team deserves the number one pick in

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the draft lottery this year the most. While everyone's talking

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about tanking and solutions to tanking, we've decided that deserve

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got got everything.

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Speaker 3: To do it got everyone, you know what? Thanks though,

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because when you were gonna ask me how I was

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doing I had already thought about I'm gonna say I'm

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excited to let everyone know that deserve has everything to

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do with it. So we've now officially spoken into microphones

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together long enough to where you don't really need both

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of us because because the hive mind is so real

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that the same thoughts just pour out.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: I have a question though, and this is my ignorance.

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I was trying to think of as I was saying it.

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Where is the original quote?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I can't remember. I thought I was

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gonna ask you. I'm sure it's one of those people

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are screaming at the at the end of their phones

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are at the screen right now because it's super obvious,

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but I can't remember. It feels like a it's either

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like a mob movie or like a waste the wire.

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That's right, So neither of those things there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's us like, that's like a mob adjacent kind

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of kind of excellent show. But the way I'm assuming

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you watched it, right, I have seen it. Yeah, that's

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one of the hit shows I've actually seen, just like

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in the know.

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Speaker 1: All right, so let's talk about the Wire. But how

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are you actually doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great, I'm really excited to get through. Like,

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I don't know that we're going to solve anything here,

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but this exercise really did sort of help crystallize what

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I'm rooting for now with respect to the lottery. And

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it's stupid to root for the lottery because by definition

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it's got some elements of randomness to it. But this

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to me, you know me, I always wanted to make sense.

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I'm always trying to like, that's just that's important to me.

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Things that are ridiculous. I wanted to make sense. This

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is now. The outcomes we will lay out shortly are

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what will make sense to me should they come to pass.

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With the ping pong balls and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: This is actually how the NBA Draft Lottery is going

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to unfold from now on, is that the NBA is

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going to put it through our give it to us,

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and we'll put it through the Karma scale and we

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will who gets what pick. But Karma stands for because

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it's very hard to put together for something with its

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acronym karmack awareness results in maximum advancement. If you can't

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tell that was forced, Thank you. I appreciate that what

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we set out to do here was to somewhat objectively

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but mostly subjectively, determined well which teams that would actually

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deserve to get the number one pick in this year's

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draft lottery. There was some weeding out of the process

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to where mathematically the Sixers could still get the number

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one pick. They could fall out of where they are

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in the East, their pick is top four protected. We

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didn't consider those instances. There's not any of them really

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in the West.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty cut and dry when you look at the standings.

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Speaker 2: The two objective quote unquote metrics that we use to

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determine karma was playoff drought, but then also playoff series

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victory drought, and so we tried to get a cumulative score,

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so we add those two together. But your score for

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your playoff series victory was capped at the number of

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teams we have in the ranking. So if you had

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a twenty five year playoff series drought, it maxed out

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at fifteen because you don't want that to wait too heavily.

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Because that gets into a couple of the other questions

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we asked ourselves when ranking these teams. Did you want

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to take us through any of those questions?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think just to put a finer point

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on the playoff drought. Wait here it would skew had

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we just gone with the raw number, it would have

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skewed results in a way that seemed unfair. And this

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is all about being fair. So for example, the Kings

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have or no, who's got the crazy long play? Well,

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the Kings have a playoff series drought of like or

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win playoff series win drought of twenty two? Right, So

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every other scale here goes from one to fifteen, and

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you want a high score, you want the fifteens. So

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giving the Kings a twenty two in one category just like, well, yeah,

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in some ways, I guess if you're if you're a

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one issue voter, the fact that they haven't had a

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playoff series in twenty two years might make you say, well,

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then they need the number one pick.

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Speaker 1: Now just say that because of the hat that I'm wearing.

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Speaker 3: Turn that hat around just quickly so everybody knows what

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it is, and that's great.

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Speaker 1: Check out how hard one Knox merch proude. Do you

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know why I got it?

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Speaker 2: In?

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Speaker 1: What is this strawberry cherry red with.

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Speaker 3: Available in red? If you want to freak your family out,

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just briefly before you explain yourself. So so yeah. In

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addition to the wighing the playoff series win drought. I'm

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never gonna that's never gonna sound right coming out of

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my mouth.

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Speaker 2: Is that the right way to say it? Because it

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is a mouthful even thinking it in my head?

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Speaker 3: Just the longest the most years since this team won

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a playoff series, which is similarly unwieldy, but we also

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factored in years since the last playoff appearance. Kind of

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the similar waiting the other categories we included here again,

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rating these fifteen teams, we're going to discuss one to fifteen.

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Fifteen is the score you want if you want to

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win the Karmick rankings, basically to deserve the number one

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pick you want numbers not and one means you don't

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deserve shit basically for at least as far as this

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category goes. Franchise competency, which basically like how how effectively

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has your front office and ownership operated? Now, please Dan

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jump in and add anything that is in your head

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for these categories as I go through.

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Speaker 2: One excellent way to explain the grading scale, So thank

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you for simplifying math down I would have it would

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have taken me like two thousand words.

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Speaker 1: To explain what you explained.

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Speaker 2: But two, what I did find challenging, but it was

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all part of the process was front office regimes have

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changed for some of these teams, but in most cases

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a lot of the constants were ownership and so like

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that's sort of how you balance it out. And also

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you can have multiple front office regimes operating poorly and right.

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But it was that was a factor we did try

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to account for because.

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Speaker 3: The thinking is, we don't want to reward a team

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with a fifteen in this category and give them, you know,

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good shot at the at the number one pick, because

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they've been mismanaged. Like that's so that's the karma part

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of it, right, We're not we're rewarding like sort of ethical,

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honorable attempts to be successful as an NBA franchise. If

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you're just screwing up over and over and over again,

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we will award you very few points. So in addition

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to franchise competency, we have how badly does this team

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need a best player? Because that's the point of the

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favorite category, great category and simple. Right, It's like, if

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you have this obvious about to be superstar or already

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superstar X, that's young you don't need a lot of

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points in this category because you've got your guy. The

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whole point of winning the lotteries to go get your guy.

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If you already have him, you're getting a one, and

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if you really really need him, you're getting a fifteen.

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After that, ethical competitive spirit, this is our we're addressing

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tanking basically here. If you have engaged in shenanigans to

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lose on purpose, the more egregious the offense in that regard,

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the fewer points you will get in this category. If

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if you've just tried to win or come as close

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to it as possiblesistantly, you're gonna get a high score here.

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It's gonna help your chance to win the uh Karma

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rankings essentially.

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Speaker 2: Which I will point out. I don't know if I

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should say support. I understand I think teams should tank

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based off the way the current lottery system is set up.

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Speaker 1: So this isn't meant to ding them.

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Speaker 2: It's just we have these categories to distinguish different things,

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and so it's not you know, the Jazz are not

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gonna score they're probably middle of the back, but in

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the shenanigans category they've embraced s Shenanigans in part because

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they had to. And I understand it, but for this process,

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we are not going to reward.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's this is a thorny one. I mean it's

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basically like, the incentives are such that you should try

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to lose on purpose still if you want a high

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lottery pick. And so this I guess this is a

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category we're assigning scores to, like without judgment, although there

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is some judgment implicit in it, because we're not gonna

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reward you if you have tanked really egregiously, like say

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you've been fined several times or things like that, like

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if you're really compromising the competitive integrity of the sport,

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it's gonna it's not gonna help you. Basically, and again,

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we get it. We know what the incentives are. We

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get it's like smart to do that sometimes, but we're

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not gonna reward it.

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Speaker 2: And I hate I hate singling out the jazz. I

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think why the jazz get singled out so often. I honestly,

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I don't know why they get singled out so often,

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but I think part of the reason is that they're

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always performing better than they should relative to the talent,

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Like even right now, as we're recording this their sixth

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in crunch time point differential, which is just stupid when

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you consider that, how many games have we seen in

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fourth quarters now where Jaron Jackson Junior before his surgery

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or Lowry Market and weren't playing And it's not part

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of that, Like what they're doing, like that helped favor

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their going back to their front office competency score. Well,

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just front office clearly understands what it's doing.

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Speaker 3: There is a relationship there, I think between those two

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categories front office competency and like your ethical competitive spirit.

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The last category is burned by the lottery gods to

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what extent. If you've had bad luck based on what

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your draft picks should have been statistically over and over

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and over again, we're gonna we're gonna help you out

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a little bit. If you've had like incredibly good luck

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and say jumped up several spots when you didn't really

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need the pick or just it was statistically improbable, that's

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not gonna help you score better here fair enough.

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Speaker 2: Like basically that everything the big thing there was that

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final category with burned by the lottery gods. A lot

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of it felt anecdotal, but it was the ones that

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stood out to where the Dallas like one one really

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huge bump was enough for you to score low. When

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you look at the Dallas Mavericks getting Cooper Flag as

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an example, that would be or if you're looking at

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the Spurs regardless of what their lottery position was, but

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oh you have Wemby and Steph Castle and Dylan Harper,

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and how you got those those guys so quickly, So

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that's what would hurt your score. But I will say

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one pick, the Hawks being an example, getting the number

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one pick in Zachary Resi schey.

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Speaker 1: No, you might not love.

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Speaker 2: That's not necessarily gonna help them in the best we

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need the best player category, but the fact they jumped

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up so much that alone is enough to swing their

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rank to a pretty stark degree.

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Speaker 3: Yep. And so just to wrap it, the higher the

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score the better, meaning like if you have the highest

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score out of these fifteen teams, that means we think

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you deserve the number one pick the most or whatever

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you deserve a comeup, I guess if you don't want

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to just say it's about the number one pick, but

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it sort of is. If you have a low score,

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we think you don't deserve it karmiclely because you have

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not you have not operated honorably, and or you already

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have had enough winfalls to where you don't need another one.

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I get think it's kind of how I'm looking at it.

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Do you ever calculate what the maximum possible score would

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have been like if you've gotten a fifteen in what one, two, three, four, five,

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six categories? That's seventy five times both of our votes.

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So one hundred and fifty is the highest score you

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could possibly get. Spoil it. Nobody's over one hundred. So

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there's a fair amount of dispersion between the scores here,

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but it's really I guess it's more important to consider

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just relative to each other, what the scores look like.

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Speaker 2: And I will say we get to a point where

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probably once we get certainly by the top ten, like

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it's all the margins aren't huge, and when you get

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to like the top the top four or five, the

255
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top four, they're really close. And so no team ran away,

256
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Well there are clear tiers, but no team ran away

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with this entire exercise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right right, And.

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Speaker 2: With that said, are you ready who finished again? Fifteen teams?

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You're ready to get through? Who finished fifteenth.

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Speaker 3: Sure, this is a team that deserves that has the

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least karma, a Karma score of twenty seven. It's the

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Dallas Mavericks. So we had, as I'm looking across our

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setup here, we single digited them in every single category.

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They did not score higher than a five in any category.

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And really, I don't know now as I'm looking back

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at it, I probably should have given them a lower

268
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score in that category. Personally, the main issues here for you,

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I guess jump in whenever is you gave them the

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lowest possible score and ethical competitive spirit. Please explain yourself.

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You give them a one there.

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Speaker 2: Just because what they did in the draft to get

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when you actually pivot out of a chance to get

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into the playoffs that late where they had to throw

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the season that quickly, and I think it last year.

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Speaker 3: This is last year post Luca. Right, well it's.

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Speaker 1: Last year post Luca, but it's also the member of

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the pick.

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Speaker 2: But it was a pick that was Kasen Willis, but

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they turned it into Derek Lively disorder of operations. So

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to punt on that, that's an argument for why did

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these types of pick protections exist? And I get it

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from their perspective, but that was just that was not

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something necessarily that we haven't seen before, but because of

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the way the playing era works, to see a team

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do something like that to where it was their their

287
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season could have been extended. They actually had a chance

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to still get into the playoffs going into that closing kick,

289
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and they just the eleventh hour and they just decided

290
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not to How well, you who have we seen come

291
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that close and then actively pivot out of the playoffs

292
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like that in recent memory.

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Speaker 3: The thing too is they had like top flight talent

294
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on the roster when it happened, Like Luca was there

295
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for basically every instance you're talking about. And now the

296
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real thing for me, or one of the real things

297
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is like they've certainly not been burned by the lottery

298
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gouts because those those shnanigans worked out. They ended up

299
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with Cooper Flag mainly, and the fact that they have

300
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Cooper Flag means that they very clearly have their guy.

301
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So you don't need another, you don't need more. Luck

302
00:14:32,279 --> 00:14:35,000
now you you are as well positioned as you can

303
00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:39,000
be after the last couple of years of some iffy behavior,

304
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I guess, other than like the whole Nico Harrison of

305
00:14:42,759 --> 00:14:46,000
it all, really cripples there and really just the Luca

306
00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:49,600
trades working really hard here, which you should, but the

307
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like front office competency really gets stinged pretty hard because

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of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is you actually had them lower in

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the competency scale than I did.

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Speaker 3: You make the the worst trade in recent I mean

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long memory. You just you're gonna.

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Speaker 2: Get We should have clarified this too, is that the

314
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reason we considered playoff droughts and then playoff series wins

315
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droughts was because we were trying to account for fan

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base pain because it's not the fan base's fault that

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the Mavericks went and made one of the worst trades

318
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in NBA history.

319
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Speaker 1: We actually want to reward you for that.

320
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Speaker 2: But they're in a terrible case because they don't get

321
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a bump in any of those drought categories. That trade

322
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was so bad because they were such a relevant team

323
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and they had just been to the finals and so

324
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this was they still wouldn't have won.

325
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Speaker 1: So I don't feel bad that.

326
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Speaker 2: They're here, but that's that's ultimately why they're so low,

327
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,759
is that the fan base pain in just that tiny

328
00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:50,200
trunk caated vacuum is so much like that threshold is

329
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,360
so high, but because it it hasn't been over a

330
00:15:53,399 --> 00:15:56,879
longer period of time. That's ultimately why the like that's

331
00:15:56,919 --> 00:15:59,279
the only thing that could have bumped frankly, the Mavericks'

332
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score up and higher.

333
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Speaker 3: And as we'll see as we move to the next team,

334
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,159
the gap between Dallas and the fourteenth team in karma

335
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,159
score is bigger than the gap between any other two teams.

336
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It's it's like, I think it's pretty clear that the

337
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,279
Mavericks do not need or deserve any any They don't

338
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,759
have any karma. They don't deserve much luck going forward.

339
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 2: Number fourteen checking in the San Antonio Spurs. I think

340
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:27,159
it's terrible that they don't deserve any karma. I mean,

341
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,480
Victor Webenyama needs a best player on the teams that

342
00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:34,000
he can be fully actualized. But I don't like that's

343
00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:37,080
the I you put them in. The category that was

344
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,240
most fascinating to me with them was how badly do

345
00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:40,799
they need a best player?

346
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Speaker 1: Is you gave them dead last.

347
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 2: I gave them second, and we won't I won't spoil

348
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,720
who I put.

349
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Speaker 1: Is like dead last there.

350
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 2: But that was the that was always going to be

351
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the one that killed them. What became difficult with them,

352
00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:57,279
is that when you're accounting for this is they have

353
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,519
the playoff series victory. Krout was actually pretty long, but

354
00:17:00,559 --> 00:17:04,000
they're losing because this is a swap. They're not getting

355
00:17:04,039 --> 00:17:06,799
any like bump from the year since they were in

356
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:10,000
their playoff appearance. Now that gap ultimately wouldn't matter too much,

357
00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:12,880
but that's what also represses their score is that we

358
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,880
know they're going to make the playoffs at this point,

359
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,240
so we don't get to account for the playoff drought.

360
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,640
When you were going through this, were you surprised and

361
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,119
we ended up putting them in the same spot at

362
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,039
how low they finished when we were looking at the

363
00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:28,680
franchise competency.

364
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,319
Speaker 3: Score, I think so, I mean they they did well

365
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,880
in franchise competency score, right, we both gave them elevens

366
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,759
out of fifteen, So there's only four teams that we

367
00:17:39,799 --> 00:17:44,279
thought had been more competent. I think, speaking for myself,

368
00:17:44,559 --> 00:17:47,640
some of that's probably outdated to how the Spurs are

369
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,519
just they're a model franchise, like they haven't been perfect

370
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:53,480
post Popovich, and there's definitely allowed contingent of people that

371
00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:55,039
are like, well, if they don't get tim duncan none

372
00:17:55,079 --> 00:17:57,319
of this happens anyway. I don't subscribe to that thinking.

373
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,119
Sure that helps, but like, okay, what team isn't defined

374
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,880
by the generational player they end up getting. I think

375
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,680
in general, like I think, just sticking recently, the Castle

376
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,319
pick looks like the right pick. We like the Harper pick.

377
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,519
Obviously Wemby is you don't get credit for that, But

378
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,079
I think this Spur is generally draft pretty well. They

379
00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:22,960
seem like a very high functioning operation. It's one of

380
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,119
those things where it's like I forget who we were

381
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,920
talking to. Maybe it's a different I mean it was

382
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,519
a radio hit or something, but it was like, you

383
00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:35,000
just don't hear about their executive structure like ever, you know,

384
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:37,440
like you don't it just because it just runs and

385
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,160
it's fine and nobody wants the credit or at least outwardly.

386
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,599
It just seems like everything works well there and there's

387
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,559
a lot of sane, rational actors in charge. And I think,

388
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,880
I don't know if you can tell me by because

389
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,359
we ended up we didn't discuss like where we were

390
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,400
going to rank these things, so that we both rated

391
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,839
them so high. I'm curious what you're thinking was on that.

392
00:18:57,839 --> 00:18:59,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, the only thing I could really ding them for

393
00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:02,839
was if you go back to I wasn't even thinking

394
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,880
the Tim Duncan tanking thing. It was the how they've

395
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,359
managed trades or how long they kind of stayed in them.

396
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,440
So there was the Kuhi trade, but then what did

397
00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:14,200
that spawn this long period where they were kind of

398
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,400
okay existing and you know, and it felt like they

399
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,759
didn't have higher amps. And when I said so low,

400
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:23,640
I framed that wrongly. But there's just I mean, karmically

401
00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:25,680
the things that hurt them was they don't need a

402
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,559
best player. And then also they have not been burned

403
00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:31,519
by the lottery got to you just look at who

404
00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:34,440
that like the Dylan Harper pick like that changed the

405
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,880
whole Everyone's like, should they have traded Ford Aaron Fox

406
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,559
if they would have known they were this pick?

407
00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:39,599
Speaker 1: And they probably wouldn't have.

408
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 3: Right, I mean in that sense they sorted know, yeah,

409
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,880
they I think you could get it, make it as

410
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,000
simple as we could have just stopped here, like you

411
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:50,759
got wim bin Yama, Like you're good, like you don't

412
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,079
you don't need any and you've you've got what in

413
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,440
the last three drafts you've picked what was Castle number five.

414
00:19:55,519 --> 00:19:58,000
So you've gotten top five picks in three straight drafts,

415
00:19:58,039 --> 00:19:59,680
Like you don't need any more help.

416
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,319
Speaker 2: I don't know if I said their score, but Karma

417
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,119
score of forty seven compared to twenty seven for the

418
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,079
MAVs checking in at number fifteen. The final thing I'll

419
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,319
say too is why I think they I I guess

420
00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:14,039
when I was asking the initial question about the front

421
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:16,680
office company to score is if you go through their

422
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,000
future draft picks, their own draft picks are not going

423
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:22,119
to be valuable because they should be so good.

424
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 1: But they just have the case.

425
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 2: In point why we're here talking about this person of all.

426
00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:29,519
They just have these swaps with teams that will out.

427
00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:31,000
It's just so far enough out that we don't know

428
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,240
what the Timberwolves are going to be, but like to

429
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:38,079
have a Kings swap that's insane. Yep, who comes in

430
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,160
at number thirteen Grant with a.

431
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 3: Karma score of sixty one. So the gap is narrowing,

432
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,400
but this is the last, like really large gap. Yeah,

433
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,359
as I'm looking further up the chart, which fourteen points higher,

434
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,920
so I'm not quite twenty. We have the thunder. This

435
00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:57,119
might seem, you know, like the thunder should just be

436
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,519
last because they're defending champs, like, who why should they

437
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,920
be even in you know anywhere? But dead last year?

438
00:21:03,599 --> 00:21:06,400
One is because their franchise competency is a fifteen. This

439
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:08,839
is just like the most well oiled machine in the

440
00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:11,440
in the league, maybe in sports, like you do the

441
00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:14,279
organizational rankings across all sports. Their way up there just

442
00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:17,559
because of they just win every transaction. They make a

443
00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:20,480
lot of the right draft picks. Sam Presti just as

444
00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:23,599
regarded as about as good as you can get in

445
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,000
a decision maker. The others I also gave them, and

446
00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:28,960
this is one of our biggest differences, and it makes

447
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,839
me think I didn't think hard enough about it. I

448
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,799
gave them a fifteen and ethical competitive spirit, and I

449
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,400
do can see that that ignores some like shrewd quiet

450
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,799
tanking a few years ago. I was just more focused on,

451
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,240
like since they became this very good team three seasons ago,

452
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,079
I guess it's just like, well, they're not. They're trying

453
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,279
to win every game they play, so I kind of

454
00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:54,720
maybe I have a memory hold for I think further

455
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:57,119
back seasons that should make this score lower. But that's

456
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,480
how they ended up here. Is there's some fifteen's on

457
00:21:59,519 --> 00:22:01,039
the card. They got some TX scores.

458
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 2: But I think what you're getting at though, is and

459
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,640
this is why I had them at seven in that

460
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,920
And I think just because people forget there was that

461
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,000
two year Yeah, like they did deliberate things to tank,

462
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,480
but to your point, it was two years to get

463
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:16,680
to a baseline where this is what they were building

464
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:17,279
on top of.

465
00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 1: And so I think you could argue.

466
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 2: I think, honestly, if we were to go through this again,

467
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,079
but you look at the other teams and think it's

468
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,240
hard to delineate, you're probably closer than I might be

469
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,079
on the more extreme end of the spectrum because people,

470
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,160
I think it's fair to in mind, Yeah, Oklahoma City

471
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,079
had a tank to in part get where they are

472
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,279
right now, but a lot of it was so short.

473
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,160
And then a lot of the other things they've done

474
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,200
is hitting on trans like Isaiah Hartenstein is just a

475
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,240
perfect example here of them managing their books, striking at

476
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,880
the right time, and like that's a player who, even

477
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,559
despite the injuries, he adds just a whole bunch of

478
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:53,559
things to what they do without taking anything of their

479
00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:57,200
core identity away. And so you're probably you're probably closer

480
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,240
to the majority or the consensus on that, and I

481
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:03,279
would be because you tank for and quote unquote tank

482
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,200
for two years just to get here. I mean, yes,

483
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,200
we know that the huge part of that's the byproduct

484
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,519
of the PG trade. But even that is they found

485
00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:13,960
a way to trade both Paul George and Kawhi Leonard

486
00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:16,000
and only one of those players was on their team.

487
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 3: Right, Well, you you should talk. You gave them a one,

488
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,319
the lowest possible score, and how badly do they need

489
00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:26,000
a best player? And it's just I didn't realize you

490
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:27,240
thought chet Holmgren was that good.

491
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 2: Well this is more so about Brooks Barnheiser, but thank

492
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,880
you for your service. I was actually I understand that

493
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,839
Wemby's younger and I suppose more of an anomaly. But Shay,

494
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,200
assuming he's going to be able to play in enough

495
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,319
games about to win back to back MVPs and his

496
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,680
smack dab in the middle of his prime where it's

497
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,880
with Wemby, it's let's see will he be awards eligible

498
00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:53,119
this year? I get the window and the runway or

499
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,200
technically longer, so I would understand why you'd pick I

500
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:56,799
think for.

501
00:23:56,839 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 3: Me, yeah, I mean, Shae is the better player today.

502
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,960
There's no so in that sense, like you're just right

503
00:24:02,039 --> 00:24:04,440
to make them the one there. I think for me

504
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:07,039
maybe I focus more on like we're building the team.

505
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:08,960
We're starting from the ground up, and I was like,

506
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,400
give me Wimby. That's like to me, that's like my

507
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,559
first pick if that's if that's what we're doing. But yeah,

508
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:17,240
Shay is better than he is today. Next year we

509
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:20,640
shall see. I don't know. So let's we got to

510
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,920
we're narrowing the gaps here. Who is our number twelve

511
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,799
team in the Karma rankings.

512
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,079
Speaker 2: With a Karmack score of sixty three. We have the

513
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,559
Atlanta Hawks. As we alluded to at the top of this,

514
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:38,720
they were most burned by their like burn They were

515
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,839
most burned by the burned by the lottery god score,

516
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,640
like jumping up and getting the number one pick, even

517
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,480
if you're not happy with the end result in that

518
00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:45,720
draft a couple of years ago.

519
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,519
Speaker 1: That's huge for them.

520
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: I also will say that we both had them fairly

521
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:55,039
low in the franchise competency score, because no, this is

522
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,720
not a team when you get to ethical competitive spirit. Wow,

523
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,720
we were really similar across I haven't look at how

524
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,680
great ranked it. We just looked at the cumultive rankings.

525
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,920
They have not been a team that's tanked, but they've

526
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,440
just been aggressively mediocre really, even as they made.

527
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,559
Speaker 1: Their conference finals strip in twenty twenty one.

528
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,519
Speaker 2: And that's just not something you could support strongly. And

529
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,119
I think what also hurts them there is it kind

530
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,200
of felt like they've been caught in a caught in

531
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,720
a weird glimbo of trying to figure out whether they

532
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,880
should try to.

533
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: Be better than aggressively mediocre.

534
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,559
Speaker 2: Or hit the reset button for almost a half decade

535
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:35,319
at this point. And that's just not a functional like

536
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,720
vacillation that you want to perpetuate for that long.

537
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,279
Speaker 3: And I think that's a good like broad encapsulation for me.

538
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,240
If I can think readily of incidents where I thought

539
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,160
like that was that I kind of thought that was

540
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,400
a risky decision at the time, or maybe even thought

541
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,000
it was bad or has been very quickly revealed to

542
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,720
be like a dumb decision. You're getting dinged here, and

543
00:25:56,759 --> 00:25:59,240
so just like I don't know, like Reese' che was

544
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,279
probably the wrong at one The Dyson Daniels contract looks

545
00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:04,640
real bad right now. The de Jonte Murray trade going

546
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,000
back doesn't look good. You also just traded Trey Young

547
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:10,000
at like the nada of his value. That's just just

548
00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:12,880
going off the top of the head. I'm sure ever

549
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,680
going to the luxury tax? Right?

550
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: That?

551
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,519
Speaker 3: Sure? That that should I mean, if anything, we should

552
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:19,839
probably weigh that pretty and maybe, man.

553
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: The Pelicans are lucky they couldn't qualify for this exercise.

554
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh that's interesting. Uh would they have been lower

555
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:30,559
than the maths? But so just that that factors in

556
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,680
if there's just a handful of like, oh god, what

557
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:35,519
is that was a mistake? Which if now that I've

558
00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:36,880
just said all those, it kind of feels like the

559
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,359
Hawks should rank even lower. But the thing they haven't.

560
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,759
Speaker 1: They haven't tanked ever. When's the last time they Well,

561
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:43,839
that's true, that's true.

562
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,839
Speaker 3: We respect that, although not in a Chicago Bulls kind

563
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:49,920
of way. We don't respect that. Although good for them

564
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,240
they're doing it now. The fact that the Hawks have

565
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,519
that swap with the Pelicans is just like they have

566
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:02,039
such a good chance of again like just defying karma.

567
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:04,519
And although like that's a smart trade. I just listened

568
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:06,079
to all their dumb trads. That was a genius trade.

569
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,000
Everybody agreed it was the best trade of the offseason,

570
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,279
so like, I don't know, here's.

571
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: A question though, getting into another category. I struggled with

572
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,480
it for this team, and I was clearly wrong about

573
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:21,960
Jalen Johnson. Overall, I did not know where to put

574
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,200
this team on the needs of best player scale. I

575
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:28,200
ultimately put them at four, which suggests that they don't

576
00:27:28,319 --> 00:27:31,920
need a best player all that much. But man, when

577
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,559
you're looking at the threshold of I don't it really

578
00:27:35,559 --> 00:27:37,960
depends on what lens you're looking through. Is it best

579
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,839
player on a championship contender, We could probably have a

580
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:45,759
really in depth discussion on whether that can be Jaalen Johnson.

581
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:48,400
But if it's best player on a top four team

582
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,000
in the conference, which is a broader look at and

583
00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:53,799
probably more so in the spirit of how I considered it,

584
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:57,680
they've got them already, and so I ultimately put them

585
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,400
at four, which looks like that's where you put them

586
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:00,920
as well. But I I don't know if you thought

587
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,839
about it for a while, but I thought about it

588
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:03,599
for quite some time.

589
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 3: I just honestly, for this category, I kind of went

590
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:10,359
through each team and just ranked who I thought the

591
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,160
best player on that team. Was with the wimby U

592
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,440
SGA thing kind of flipping and just like if it

593
00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:19,240
just power ranked almost so it's like I think, I

594
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,720
I think, as I'm looking at the sheet, our best

595
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,079
players are both seven? Did I do I need to

596
00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:25,640
refresh the sheet first?

597
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: I look at the Oh, I'm looking at the Burn.

598
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:29,559
I'm sorry, I'm looking at the burn lottery gods. So

599
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:31,200
I apologize, but we both put seven.

600
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just thought Jalen Johnson was the seventh best player, uh,

601
00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:38,000
you know, of of the guys on the list, which

602
00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:40,160
is interesting because we both have bam out of Bio

603
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,480
just to spoil it ranked lower, which I don't know

604
00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:44,519
who i'd take today. But the youth factor I think

605
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:47,079
makes Johnson, well, yeah, he's not to me.

606
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sorry.

607
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,599
Speaker 2: I'm always going to lean towards the person who can

608
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,480
generate more offense.

609
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: And that's just jaaling.

610
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:57,519
Speaker 2: The way Jalen Johnson plays is not the same way

611
00:28:57,519 --> 00:28:58,599
as bam Adebio plays.

612
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: Right there, I think if you're going from the perspective

613
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:05,480
of this guy can be the best player on a

614
00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:09,640
championship team, there's three or four of those guys in

615
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,960
this whole exercise Johnson is not one of them, but

616
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:15,799
like he is, Like you're saying, if he's your best player,

617
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,640
you can be a very good team. I think. I

618
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,680
think if you project forward, if he improves anymore, which

619
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,240
is possible given what he's done. So yeah, they so

620
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,519
just to they add a sixty three. They just narrowly.

621
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,160
The Hawks did narrowly beat the thunder here. And then

622
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,720
we jump a little bit with the next team.

623
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: Who do we have at number eleven.

624
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 3: Mine and yours The Golden State Warriors here. Uh, they

625
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,519
have a commerce score of seventy one, so quite a

626
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:40,160
bit higher here. I think we've kind of exited the

627
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,480
real bottom tier. There's a couple categories that are doing

628
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:46,200
a lot of work here for the Warriors with their

629
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:50,920
high scores, which are franchise competency. They've been very prominent

630
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,200
for a very long time, so everybody's aware of their missteps.

631
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,720
There have been a few. They've had a lot to

632
00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:57,119
do with drafting of young players that did not develop

633
00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:01,599
or fit otherwise though, like they've made some great free

634
00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:05,000
agent signings. They've developed, I mean years ago, they developed

635
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,319
a core that won a lot of titles. They've won

636
00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:09,920
some trades really handily, like the Wigans trade where they

637
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,359
also got a first rounder for D'Angelo Rutt, Like yeah,

638
00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:15,720
and then getting off a Pool's contract. You can knock

639
00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:18,519
them for signing that, but they gave that away and

640
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:20,839
just you know that first rounder is the fake first

641
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,720
rounder basically that Washington has that Actually now does Dallas

642
00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:26,319
have that one? Yeah? That was the Anthony Davis one

643
00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:30,640
got rerouted. The other score the other category, they score

644
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,839
highly in his ethical competitive spirit, like that's just because

645
00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:37,400
they've had one really abysmal year and that's when Steph

646
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,799
Curry played five games and what are you gonna do Otherwise?

647
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:43,079
They've been highly competitive because they're trying to If anything,

648
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:45,160
you could knock them for trying to be like, I

649
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,240
don't know, too competitive sometimes when maybe some other ways

650
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,920
of thinking would have suggested they should have blown it

651
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,359
up a couple of years ago.

652
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: But they did tank their heart out for the Harrison

653
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:57,400
Barnes right.

654
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: Which started this whole deal. I mean in some way

655
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:07,000
they scored their playoffs drought obviously is there, Yeah, they're not,

656
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:10,480
they're and then what else? What else is notable here?

657
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,759
Anything stick out to you that hired?

658
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,319
Speaker 2: Do you think that we so you went the fourteen

659
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:19,519
on the ethical competitive spear, which is the second best

660
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:20,319
score you could give.

661
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:23,799
Speaker 1: I struggled with it because they.

662
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: Did have the Harrison Barnes tanking year and then it's

663
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,680
the James Wiseman year was very clearly. I know that

664
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,599
the injuries factored into that, but it was just like, Okay,

665
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,640
now we have multiple occasions within kind of the same window.

666
00:31:35,359 --> 00:31:36,799
I didn't know where to put them there, and I

667
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:39,200
also didn't know where the front office confidency was interesting

668
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,680
because they've hit on a lot of the on the

669
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:41,880
margins free agency moves.

670
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,839
Speaker 1: When you look at the.

671
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: Anthey Melton twice, Gary Payton and the junior how many

672
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:46,680
Gary payt in the second how many times?

673
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,079
Speaker 3: Ye? But and then you hit on later draft like

674
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:52,799
late second rounders. They've had good success with like that

675
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,519
kind of stuff.

676
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: The stuff that I struggled with there was they clearly

677
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,400
botched the coaminga thing to virtually no end. And then

678
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,839
also what I also, I don't know if this was

679
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,559
it ultimate didn't factor in too much, but James Wiseman

680
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,240
was the wrong pick. I'm trying to think in that draft,

681
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:11,279
in that range though, they just let's just say they

682
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,799
just taken LaMelo ball. How much different are are they today?

683
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:18,960
I guess it's impossible to kind of figure it out.

684
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,319
But that's a that's an interesting what if for me, because.

685
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:22,359
Speaker 1: He's dealt with a ton of injuries.

686
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,759
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if he feels like the type of player,

687
00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:27,440
would they have moved on from him more quickly than

688
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,599
James Wiseman because he didn't technically fill a positional need.

689
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in the wake of the cominga stuff,

690
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,240
it's pretty easy. I mean, it's pretty easy to imagine

691
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:40,720
Steve Kerr just being like, this guy does not play

692
00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:42,960
the type of basketball that I want to play, Like

693
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,920
that's just right, like it the the the unseeriousness of

694
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,079
LaMelo you can imagine really making it so he does

695
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,559
not get anything close to the runway he's got in

696
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,720
Charlotte like that just I think that's a pretty safe assumption.

697
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,440
But yeah, they've watched a couple of picks. I do

698
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:02,799
think so. For me, the reason the competitive like ethical

699
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:05,119
competitive spirit score so high is because the Barnes thing

700
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,920
is so long ago that it's almost just like it's

701
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,759
just right, it's way back there. And then the shut

702
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:14,119
it down season comes after the whole team just explodes

703
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,880
after that in the twenty nineteen finals, like Thompson's out,

704
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,200
Draymond's banged up, he plays barely. The next season, Steph

705
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,640
gets hurt right away, Durant's gone. You get it. You

706
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,799
get a down year when you've run yourself into the

707
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:29,640
ground with three you know what?

708
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,079
Speaker 2: No?

709
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:33,119
Speaker 3: Four? How many? Why can't I remember how many finals

710
00:33:33,119 --> 00:33:34,680
strips in a row they made? You know they played

711
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,680
the Cavs four times in a row? I remember that.

712
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: Man, that was a wild time. Considering where we are

713
00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:41,119
now with a straight different champion.

714
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: That was the death of parody. So I don't know

715
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,559
what else needs to be said about them. They should

716
00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:47,119
not get the number one pick, but they deserve it

717
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:47,960
more than a few teams.

718
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: Man, are they Well wait, well, no, I think we've

719
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,319
been What would be the what would be the team

720
00:33:54,599 --> 00:33:57,880
that would incite the most conspiracy theories should they win

721
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,720
the number one pick?

722
00:33:59,599 --> 00:34:03,279
Speaker 3: I mean the Thunder Although, like personally I was thinking

723
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:06,599
about this the other day, if the Thunder got it,

724
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,039
I would be excited because it's like, man, now we

725
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,920
just have a giant to slay. How much more fun

726
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,000
is that? That's a good question. What do you think

727
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,840
The answer.

728
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: Is, I think people would be most people be most

729
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,079
outraged if it's the Thunder. But I think could you

730
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,800
ever picture as far as conspiracy theories go, and I

731
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,760
don't mean to lend them create most of them credence,

732
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,920
Why would the NBA skew think so heavily in favor

733
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,960
of the Thunder of all team, you know what I mean?

734
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: So?

735
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: Or the Spurs, which is another nominee for this. If

736
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,800
the Spurs get the number one pick, everybody would be like.

737
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,679
Speaker 1: Well, no, that would that would bring out all They're

738
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:42,239
just so dead.

739
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,639
Speaker 2: They want Wemby on. They don't want an American player

740
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:46,400
being the face of the league. They're doing the Spurs

741
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,000
the number one pick to continue propping up Wemby.

742
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,599
Speaker 3: I don't think he needs propping up. Uh yeah. It

743
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:55,239
would have to be a good team Dallas, I don't.

744
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,639
I think everybody would be like, what's happening? You could?

745
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,559
You could concoct some pretty weird conspiracy theories. If Dallas

746
00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:01,679
got the number one pick.

747
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 2: I think the Dubs would be in the top three

748
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:09,400
getting angry. They'd be up there checking in Grant at

749
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,360
number ten. The Memphis Grizzlies were a Karna score of

750
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,199
seventy two, just barely edging out the Golden State Warriors.

751
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,760
Were you surprised where they finished when you looked at

752
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,000
how everything we went through?

753
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 3: Everything this feels about right? I guess it depends on

754
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,800
how you view or what you view as the causes

755
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,400
for the dissolution of that. This team now that won

756
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:35,360
fifty plus games a couple of years in a row

757
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,360
and is now just trading away everybody but the main

758
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,119
problem has kind of stuck with the main problem still.

759
00:35:42,199 --> 00:35:44,679
I guess the fact that they're down here suggests that

760
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:46,400
we both think a lot of the damage is pretty

761
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,119
self inflicted.

762
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's tough. We both had them.

763
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,599
Speaker 2: Let me make sure, because I've been reading the columns

764
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,679
very poorly in our spreadsheet. We both have them at

765
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:58,320
a four on the franchise competency scale, which is semi

766
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,400
wild to think about because of how well they have drafted.

767
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,360
But it's just the stuff that they've done with trades,

768
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:09,400
using draft picks to get off money, never making the

769
00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:12,360
actual big move to optimize or augment a core that

770
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,679
they claimed was good enough. And then I also I

771
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,480
don't expect teams to divulge their innermost secrets. But when

772
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,559
you've kind of misled your fan base. And the one

773
00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:25,320
that I can't get over because it was such a

774
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,280
bald faced lie was the Desmond Bane trade not signaling

775
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,800
that this team was about to start over.

776
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:33,119
Speaker 1: That was a big fu to.

777
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 2: The fan base, and so I ding them hard for that,

778
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,960
and quite frankly karmically speaking, they're lucky they're not lower

779
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:39,679
in that category.

780
00:36:39,679 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 3: It's far yes, I think too. The low scores there,

781
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,920
we both had them very low. To me, feels like

782
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,760
you're the front office in management and ownership is at

783
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,199
least partially responsible for, like not saying enabling, but at

784
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,039
least like putting up with the jaw stuff for as

785
00:36:57,079 --> 00:36:59,440
long as they did, to the point where his value

786
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,280
just fell up heart I think, and again that's probably

787
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,800
mostly just on the player, because he's also just gotten

788
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,119
worse at basketball, uh in the last couple of years.

789
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,760
But I think losing Dylan Brooks seems like the whove

790
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:16,519
them out the door.

791
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,559
Speaker 2: And then it was pretty clear that you didors well.

792
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: I would have done it. I would have done it

793
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,880
for that reason, but pretty clear that that team needed

794
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,599
like more veteran leadership and more like let's keep the

795
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:34,239
young guys in line kind of presences. It just kind

796
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,119
of letting things get out of control. I feel like

797
00:37:36,199 --> 00:37:37,920
I feel like we're both kind of knocking them for that.

798
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,480
And then just transactionally, like you said, there's there's some

799
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:44,679
real mistakes. The Marcus Smart trade tree just is never

800
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,559
going to be like excusable.

801
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: But even just stupid things like having to give up

802
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,679
seconds to get off the Zaire Williams contract. I just

803
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,480
don't and that, by the way, that was a miss

804
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:56,760
to trade up and get Zaire Williams in the first place,

805
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:57,360
too true.

806
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,679
Speaker 3: Forgot about that they do. Let's see, so let's what's

807
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,360
another standout category here? Well, we gave this.

808
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,119
Speaker 2: Tough, but they finished high. I think we both had

809
00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:08,400
them twelve or thirteen.

810
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:09,519
Speaker 3: How bad they do?

811
00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: They need a best player, and it's it's clear they

812
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,239
don't want Ja Moran anymore, and it clearly can't be

813
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,039
John Moran anymore. And I think I don't know if

814
00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:18,760
this comes as a source of consolation, but if you're

815
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,920
a Grizzlies fan, if they're drafting, we have them tenth

816
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,039
in mccarmick rankings, they'll find value for the most part.

817
00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: Wherever they are in the draft.

818
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:28,559
Speaker 2: You just have to wonder how long before they, you know,

819
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:31,119
use him to salary dump someone else if they gave

820
00:38:31,159 --> 00:38:33,719
it back, Like that's the that's the main concern with

821
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:34,199
this team.

822
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: But it's if they were open let's just.

823
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,199
Speaker 2: Say in the vacuum they were open to we're not

824
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,480
gonna move John Moran, like we're gonna try and salvage this.

825
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:46,199
Speaker 1: Would you have lowered them on that scale at all?

826
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,119
Speaker 3: No, because I don't think he can be that anymore

827
00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:52,440
just a post Those are both factors for sure. A

828
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,039
third factor that I didn't really consider in this that

829
00:38:55,079 --> 00:38:57,760
I'm just thinking of now as like Memphis to a

830
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,000
greater extent than most of these teams really does need

831
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:03,599
to depend on the draft to get this guy, as

832
00:39:03,679 --> 00:39:06,480
opposed to like I'm trying to like Miami, just as

833
00:39:06,519 --> 00:39:08,320
a contrast, like, yeah, if they don't get them in

834
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,800
the draft, decent chance that you know, they'll be on

835
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,400
the list for the next superstar that is about to

836
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,519
hit free agency or whatever. There's other ways for some

837
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:18,760
teams to get this guy. The Grizzlies, like some teams

838
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,239
here but not all, probably need a draft them. So

839
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,440
maybe the need is even greater for a best player

840
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,360
for them, but we we rated them high there, so

841
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:26,800
were you.

842
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 2: This was the team though that I was wondering where

843
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,320
they were. I had no idea where I was going

844
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,480
to actually put them. The fact that they finished here

845
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,920
feels brutal, but also kind of makes sense when you talk, Yeah,

846
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:37,679
who comes.

847
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: In at number ninet?

848
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 3: All right, we got the Kings here, and so just

849
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,119
to get out ahead of it, given like fan base

850
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,519
pain and and like just needing a turn the page thing,

851
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,400
and boy they're due for a break. They could there's

852
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,679
an argument that we should just the Kings just need this.

853
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,719
They need this more than Kings. Kings fans out deserve this,

854
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:03,880
which is why the year since the playoff series win

855
00:40:04,159 --> 00:40:06,920
thing is a fifteen. Obviously they maxed it out. They

856
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,440
maxed it out. The plus seven twenty two years had

857
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,960
just the pain of this fan base. Maybe that should

858
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,039
have been its own score is just like how much

859
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:19,159
is the fan base hurting? And then they would have.

860
00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: Maxed that out too, So do you know why I

861
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,880
did it with the we the droughts? Well, and they

862
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,639
have a Karma score of seventy seven. And for anyone

863
00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:28,199
who's keeping crack of this, like, so again, we're a

864
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,760
pretty close range with some of these teams. I just

865
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,800
felt that would have been then we could have, I

866
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,119
guess done both. But if we're subjective of then were

867
00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:36,559
we ranking fan bases?

868
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:37,639
Speaker 1: And that gets into a hole.

869
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: I don't like painting because there are times where I'm

870
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,599
mad at certain fan bases because they're spamming the comments

871
00:40:42,599 --> 00:40:44,920
of our videos with stupid shit. But it's I don't

872
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,360
like painting fan bases with a broad brush negatively when

873
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,039
it goes to just how much shit has this organization

874
00:40:52,119 --> 00:40:55,840
put the entire fan base through. I don't think there's

875
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,639
an argument for any fan base to be placed over

876
00:40:58,679 --> 00:40:59,440
the Kings on that.

877
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:04,119
Speaker 3: Yes, and relatedly, their franchise competency was the easiest one.

878
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,320
I think either of us gave out because this is

879
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,039
the model franchise for comprecious decisions student like just the

880
00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:17,480
hiring firing cycle of coaches in GMS, bad drafting, bad signings,

881
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:20,880
bad trades like you name it. This franchise excels in

882
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,960
the race to the bottom in all of those transactional categories.

883
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:27,719
Uh like could had we been able to go negative,

884
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,079
I think we both would have happily. You know, just

885
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:34,320
dropped some negative fourteens on this and that really sank

886
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,320
their chances of being higher because you can't get a

887
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,800
pair of ones and do much better in the carmon

888
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,840
grankings and like, this is the trade off, right. The

889
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,400
fan base deserves it and needs it because ownership and

890
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,360
management has been so singularly bad. Uh. There, they're two

891
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,960
related categories, so maybe they almost cancel each other out.

892
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:55,320
I don't know if there's anything else notable here you

893
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,320
wanted to hit. It's just that can't reward. You can't

894
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,599
reward this ownership with the number one pick. You didn't.

895
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:02,480
You haven't. Does you don't deserve it? You don't.

896
00:42:02,599 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: They'll mess it up too.

897
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 3: It doesn't the deepest draft with six guys that are

898
00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:09,599
franchise superstars.

899
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:11,519
Speaker 2: They've already proven they'll mess it up when you look

900
00:42:11,559 --> 00:42:14,159
at how their process behind draft and Mark I don't

901
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:16,199
want to bring up, but the process behind drafting Marvin

902
00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:18,719
Bagley was just awful. A lot of the reasons that

903
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,519
came and nothing changes, which is why the VEC around

904
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:24,840
ADIVA is the common denominator. But that that's what's tough,

905
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,039
is so how much blame do you put? We saw

906
00:42:27,039 --> 00:42:29,760
that piece on ESPN about the vision Scott Perry hasster

907
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,760
this roster, okay cool, look at what you did over

908
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,639
the offseason and then had to undo with the trade deadline.

909
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,119
None of this makes sense. And the fact that they're

910
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,719
here and they still finish so high on the needs

911
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,000
the best player scale, it's like they have nothing basically

912
00:42:49,039 --> 00:42:52,039
to show for any of this pain except for that

913
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,360
remember that year, the light the beam year pushed the

914
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,519
Warriors to seven games, and we thought this organization turned

915
00:42:57,519 --> 00:42:58,840
a corner and it.

916
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 3: Was just boom fire the coach, Yeah, boom, trade your

917
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,559
best player, like just just one after the other. They

918
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:07,760
can't they can't have nice things. They can't have one

919
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:08,840
of which is a number one pick.

920
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 1: You know what team can have nice things?

921
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,599
Speaker 2: They come in a number eight, the Utah Jazz with

922
00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:16,440
a Karma score of seventy eight, just beating out Grant's

923
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:21,800
favorite team, the Sacramento Kings. This this team to spoiler alert.

924
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,239
We mentioned them before when it came to Shenanigans. They

925
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,760
did not finish very high in ethical competitive spirit.

926
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,599
Speaker 1: I had them into two. You gave them a one,

927
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,079
so we're same range.

928
00:43:30,119 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 2: But they've gamed the system basically, as much as any team.

929
00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:37,639
Speaker 1: I think what you could say is there have been rosters.

930
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: When you look at Brooklyn and Washington, they've just started

931
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,840
out bad and stripped their rosters down to the studs

932
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,599
like before the season ever started. The Jazz have always

933
00:43:46,639 --> 00:43:48,920
felt as if they have too much talent left over

934
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,920
from some of their teardowns and the big one for them.

935
00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:55,280
But this contributes to franchise competency. By the way, is

936
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,280
when you got peak value for Rudy gobarreon Donovan Mitchell,

937
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:00,960
we might never see trades like that ever again, Like

938
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,239
even the Desmond Bane trade.

939
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 1: Look at all those picks.

940
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: The Jazz got an All Star, borderline All NBA player

941
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:08,039
in addition to all.

942
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:08,679
Speaker 1: Of those picks.

943
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: But that also kind of fueled why they've had the

944
00:44:11,519 --> 00:44:14,280
tank so much, because they were just better. Like the

945
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:17,440
crown jewel of that trade was not supposed to be

946
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,920
lowry marketing, right, it turned into larry market in.

947
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: So there's like an interesting push and pull there.

948
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:27,159
Speaker 2: But I would argue I put them at when it

949
00:44:27,199 --> 00:44:29,519
came to franchise competency. I had them at thirteen. You

950
00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:31,639
had them at nine, which I thought was fascinating.

951
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 3: That feels low to me, especially since I also apparently

952
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,519
have the heat at nine that's probably supposed to be

953
00:44:36,519 --> 00:44:36,800
a ten.

954
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,519
Speaker 1: You didn't even need to break the tie. You would

955
00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:41,000
have broken it.

956
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 3: Is that the reason we accidentally had a TI either, Yeah,

957
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,719
I can't count to the ten. I think some of

958
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,119
it is, well, we're kind of talking about the same thing.

959
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:54,880
So I'm dinging them a little bit for for having

960
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,760
to pivot and egregiously tank and get their one in

961
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,880
Competitive Spirit ethical competitive Spirit, because they just sort of

962
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,800
like went halfway with you know, like they had to steer,

963
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,199
they had a change course in ways that like even

964
00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:12,119
prior to the season, I feel like we were talking

965
00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:14,119
about a couple of the times like I think this

966
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:16,079
team might be too good to be at the very

967
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:17,719
very bottom, Like what are they going to do? Like

968
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,519
how do they how long will they benchmark it? In four?

969
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,880
Like which kept happening, you know, so I think just

970
00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:28,039
I guess half measure is not quite the right word,

971
00:45:28,039 --> 00:45:30,039
but you kind of understand what I'm saying, Like they

972
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:34,760
they haven't quite I don't know, executed the plan which

973
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,679
we're giving them ones and twos for in the Ethicalspeive

974
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,400
Competitive Spirit categories perfectly and they've gotten in their own way,

975
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,280
and I think possibly cost themselves when Bin Yama or

976
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,760
remember before that draft, like this is the year for

977
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,880
them to really tank and they were too good and

978
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,079
they did it again. So that's the explanation for that score,

979
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:56,320
which feels a point or two low. Probably they should

980
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,800
be a little higher because of the trades that they've

981
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,599
so handily won. I also think they haven't drafted great

982
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,719
generally speaking. I don't know how much of that is,

983
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,159
Like maybe Taylor Hendrix has a very different career without

984
00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:10,920
the injury and he's still on the team.

985
00:46:11,079 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 1: But they're like Georgia at sixteen.

986
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that was that finally happened this year. There

987
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,719
have been some other ones that trying. Now we got

988
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:19,639
to run through some of their picks.

989
00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:23,119
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, who else.

990
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: Cody Williams is looming pretty large here.

991
00:46:26,199 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: But maybe he's l maybe he's a late bloomer, like

992
00:46:29,079 --> 00:46:29,840
he already looks.

993
00:46:29,639 --> 00:46:33,119
Speaker 3: Like Yeah, they feel like they're in about the right

994
00:46:33,159 --> 00:46:35,400
spot though because of the egregious tanking. I feel like

995
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,360
they just can't be much higher. Hit your mic.

996
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: We both had them I think twelve when it came

997
00:46:41,519 --> 00:46:45,239
to the burned by the lottery gods, because they've drafted

998
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,960
in the top five ones despite all their tanking measures

999
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,159
and just you know, Okay, Taylor Hendrix, I really liked him.

1000
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:53,559
I said he was going to be better than Jaron

1001
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:56,800
Jackson Junior, who is now ironically on this team. And

1002
00:46:57,159 --> 00:47:00,599
like to draft, what were they outside of they had ten?

1003
00:47:01,159 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: Nine?

1004
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: What of the picks that they've had since that trade,

1005
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,599
it's been nine and ten. Yeah, and so the only

1006
00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:08,559
the one top five pick. And I think Ace Bailey

1007
00:47:09,039 --> 00:47:11,280
is going to be really good and is already showing

1008
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,320
a ton of encouraging signs. How did you They ended

1009
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,119
up finishing pretty low? But were they one of the

1010
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:19,280
more fascinating teams to say? How badly do they need

1011
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,119
a best player? Because I think there's an argument to

1012
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:25,639
say none of the players that they have right now

1013
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,599
might be the ideal best player if you're trying to

1014
00:47:28,599 --> 00:47:30,480
build a contender in the West, but you just have

1015
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:35,320
so many fringe like R three options that it's a

1016
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,320
they'll approximate enough value there.

1017
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:41,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like marknen is an All NBA caliber guy, given

1018
00:47:41,679 --> 00:47:43,840
you know, just choose a random year, he's going to

1019
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,440
be in the conversation if he plays enough Georgia's ascent.

1020
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:50,280
I think Ace Bailey probably not a super duper star,

1021
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,559
but it's way too early to shut that door. Like

1022
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:57,159
they they've got enough. Kessler's a plus starting center, assuming

1023
00:47:57,199 --> 00:47:59,480
they keep him in restrictive free agency, Like like, yeah,

1024
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,599
it's a volume thing. They've got enough cracks at it

1025
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:05,039
to where like they're maybe that's the next NBA trend.

1026
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,119
We don't need a top ten player. We just we're

1027
00:48:08,159 --> 00:48:10,880
gonna stack as many top fifty players as possible or

1028
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,199
some or you need a different type of best player

1029
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,880
like Haliburton on the Pacers type of thing where it's like, oh, look, look,

1030
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,039
look what happened here. You know, you don't doesn't need

1031
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:21,039
to be the six eight do it all wing necessarily,

1032
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:21,960
you know that kind.

1033
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: Of thing, coming in at number seven.

1034
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 2: Grand the Miami Heat, who you broke we tie breakers?

1035
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,679
Speaker 1: We broke them together.

1036
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 2: But apparently wouldn't have needed to have broken these if

1037
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,719
Grant could count to ten. So coming with a karma

1038
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,199
score of seventy eight or seventy nine doesn't matter, doesn't

1039
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,599
change anything. The Miami Heat, can you take us through

1040
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,239
their karma? They're karmak vitals, sir.

1041
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the playoff drought not long, so they didn't

1042
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:46,760
do anything spectacular there. They're kind of middle pack and

1043
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,320
everything except for their ethical competitive spirit. They both you

1044
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,159
have a fourteen here, I gave them a twelve, so

1045
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,400
very high scores. They don't really tank.

1046
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: They're always the tank.

1047
00:48:56,679 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 3: I can't even I can't even remember they had an

1048
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:02,719
what was the oh remember the season they started like

1049
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:06,320
I can't remember now, like thirty one and fourteen and

1050
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,360
then finished fourteen and thirty one or maybe it was

1051
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,519
backwards like Deon Waiters was very much a part of

1052
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:12,639
that year. I can't remember how long ago that was,

1053
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,159
but that that's the last Like, wow, this team is

1054
00:49:16,159 --> 00:49:19,519
a mess situation that I can remember. They they're just

1055
00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:23,159
always trying to win. They they are always in the

1056
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:27,119
mix for like big trade candidates, and they're always a

1057
00:49:27,159 --> 00:49:29,360
threat to sign. They just don't. I mean, part of

1058
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,360
is because pat Riley's in his eighties and it's like

1059
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,039
what are we were not on a ten year time

1060
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:36,440
horizon here, folks, Like we're trying to be good now.

1061
00:49:38,039 --> 00:49:41,239
So they were pretty easy, like high score in that

1062
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,480
category for me. Elsewhere nothing really stands out. We've got

1063
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,480
a lot of eights and nine's and sevens, kind of

1064
00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:49,599
like some high mid pack stuff here. Anything jump out

1065
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:52,159
as surprising to you about their their Karmack scores.

1066
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: I believe that going into this, if it were a

1067
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,280
year or two ago, I would have just assumed that

1068
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,519
the heat would have been incredibly high on the franchise

1069
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:06,079
competency scale. And while they were in the top half

1070
00:50:06,079 --> 00:50:09,159
for both of us, it was just barely because everything

1071
00:50:09,159 --> 00:50:11,960
that you kind of outlined is also sort of part

1072
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,239
of the problem, not like waiting and waiting and biting

1073
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,920
your time for that next big name, whether and it

1074
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,519
was before they even traded Jimmy Butler. It's kind of

1075
00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:26,000
prevented them from like actually rebuilding and maybe angling for

1076
00:50:26,039 --> 00:50:27,840
something more than what if we just had this outside

1077
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,039
chance of making the NBA finals because of playoff Jimmy Butler.

1078
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: But then I don't know how to judge that against

1079
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:33,559
but like, you did make it to the.

1080
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,119
Speaker 2: Finals on multiple occasions, so maybe there's merit to that approach.

1081
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:40,360
But they've lost some of their luster there, especially when

1082
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,199
you have their I don't know if you've caught enough

1083
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,639
of the postgame stuff from Eric's Boelstra.

1084
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: This year and last year.

1085
00:50:46,199 --> 00:50:49,679
Speaker 2: He I feel like the analog is Steve Current Jonathan

1086
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,239
Minga Eric Spoliser clearly doesn't want Khalil War on this team,

1087
00:50:53,519 --> 00:50:54,760
and so like you kind of have the fact that, like,

1088
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,760
what's the disconnect going on here? But they do buy

1089
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,840
in large draft well, or they sign these guys to

1090
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,280
where it's just like we like them, where they've draft

1091
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,440
these guys like oh, Pelle Larsen, like we really like him,

1092
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,719
even getting Tyler Hero, he's become a pariah ever since

1093
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:10,920
he signed his extension. He's been banged up this year,

1094
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,199
but that was great value where they selected him. They

1095
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,480
were I thought that would be harder to rank, but

1096
00:51:17,519 --> 00:51:18,719
when I went into this, it was just No, I

1097
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,679
don't think they belong to be higher in the franchise

1098
00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:21,440
competency scale.

1099
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:22,519
Speaker 1: It just feels as if.

1100
00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:25,639
Speaker 2: Yeh, their approach is a little I don't know if

1101
00:51:25,639 --> 00:51:29,360
it's outmoded, but there's there's not as much upside to

1102
00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:32,320
what feels like their way of thinking as there used

1103
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:32,519
to be.

1104
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fair. As I look at it now,

1105
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,800
I think there's and it's a loaded word, especially for

1106
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,159
this franchise, but like their culture does seem like Pella

1107
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,639
Larson's a real player, and like Haime Haakas, they get

1108
00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:47,599
the best out of a limited guy there. And they

1109
00:51:48,119 --> 00:51:51,000
do seem to have an infrastructure, and that's partly just

1110
00:51:51,039 --> 00:51:53,000
because Spolster's been there for a thousand years and the

1111
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,119
management structure hasn't really changed, where like it's a little

1112
00:51:56,199 --> 00:52:00,519
spursy where it's it's just like, you know, the wheels

1113
00:52:00,519 --> 00:52:03,000
are never falling off. It's just this is that they're

1114
00:52:03,039 --> 00:52:07,320
gonna be functional. There's you know, Jimmy. The Jimmy Butler

1115
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,079
thing does stand out as like that was a mess,

1116
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,320
but like that's really just Jimmy Butler, I think more

1117
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,880
than anything. And you sign up for that when you

1118
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,079
bring him on board and don't extend him basically, which yeah,

1119
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:21,960
probably right decision, uh turns out so uh, I think

1120
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:24,559
I think I think it feels about right, even though

1121
00:52:24,599 --> 00:52:26,400
I do if I had, if I had to move

1122
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:27,920
him one way or the other, I'd have some higher

1123
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,880
scores and franchise competency. Probably.

1124
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: Let's go on to I was honestly surprised this team

1125
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,039
finished as high as they did, but checking in at

1126
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:41,000
number six, the Chicago Bulls anything stand out. So let

1127
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:42,599
me go through what I think stood out the most

1128
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:44,960
of me here is that I didn't know how they

1129
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,079
obviously were gonna score highly and how bad they do

1130
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:48,840
they need a best player unless you really don't get

1131
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,519
Josh Giddy or Modest Bozellis or maybe Rob Dillingham or

1132
00:52:52,039 --> 00:52:55,039
Jade and Ivy. I didn't know what to do with

1133
00:52:55,079 --> 00:52:57,800
their ethical competitive spirit, and I ultimately think that you

1134
00:52:58,039 --> 00:53:00,400
went the right way putting them at six, which again

1135
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,280
is very low. I put them at nine, which is

1136
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,400
middle of the pack. Surprise surprise is basically where they ranked,

1137
00:53:05,679 --> 00:53:06,639
Like that's where they are.

1138
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:07,599
Speaker 1: In the standings year a year.

1139
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know how. I feel like I rewarded

1140
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,519
them for it. But at the same time, they've tried

1141
00:53:13,519 --> 00:53:16,039
to They're sort of just like the Kings of the

1142
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:18,519
East to where they were, they've been trying to be

1143
00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:20,760
I guess the Kings were trying to be good. So

1144
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,679
there's more honor in what the Kings were doing conceptually,

1145
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,239
even though the execution was poor. The Bulls, I guess,

1146
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,400
seemed like they were dead set on being in the

1147
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:29,280
bottom of the middle.

1148
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what we've knocked them for forever, and

1149
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,360
that's why they got a two from you and a

1150
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:40,800
three from me in franchise committency because they just like

1151
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,559
didn't prioritize the right things they I mean, the fact

1152
00:53:44,599 --> 00:53:46,800
that they and the Kings have had so much overlap

1153
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,239
personnel wise is like not a coincidence. They the players

1154
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,679
that these franchises value, that these ownership and management structures value,

1155
00:53:54,119 --> 00:53:57,280
are not winning players, so they've swapped a few of

1156
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,480
those over the years. The trick though, like the ethical

1157
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,400
competitive spirit like they have. I don't know what to

1158
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,880
do with that. They have tried to win, but like

1159
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,599
not enough, so like they haven't tanked, and we ding

1160
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:13,760
them for not tanking, but we do that like while

1161
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,840
at the same time dinging them for not going for it.

1162
00:54:17,159 --> 00:54:20,079
So it's kind of like, don't I don't know. That

1163
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,599
was a difficult category to rank. The only thing, the

1164
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,360
very obvious was they do need a best player very

1165
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,840
very badly. They got fourteens from us, the second highest

1166
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,440
score you could get in that category.

1167
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also they haven't had ever since I

1168
00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:36,760
mean the Derreck Rose draft, but that's not a factor.

1169
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,679
And then winning that lottery I was really factor here. Yeah,

1170
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:44,039
they haven't had like a ton of draft lottery success.

1171
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:48,119
I mean, now going back to franchise competency, I supported.

1172
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:50,960
I want to make this clear drafting Patrick Williams at

1173
00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:54,400
number four, that was clearly just a huge miss by

1174
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,679
them in that draft, but it's not they haven't been

1175
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,519
in part because of where they're aiming to be in

1176
00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:01,800
the standings, they haven't really been in a position to

1177
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,800
be in these awesome lottery spots, and so that also

1178
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,719
inflated their score. They also had the I think it

1179
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,840
was the third highest bump from like the playoff series drought,

1180
00:55:13,039 --> 00:55:15,119
so it's like they their their playoff drought really isn't

1181
00:55:15,159 --> 00:55:18,199
that long, but actually winning an entire series when you

1182
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,199
factor in this season because if they're in the lottery,

1183
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,440
that's why it'll extended to eleven years.

1184
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:23,159
Speaker 1: M M.

1185
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. That the Williams thing that the picks defensible, but

1186
00:55:28,599 --> 00:55:31,039
the good money after bad on that contract is just

1187
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:34,280
another reason that the franchise competency is is hurting.

1188
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 2: Here and how they have they drafted just all Likezellis.

1189
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 3: Bozelli's is fine for that probably pretty good bet better

1190
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:43,960
than you'd expect value for that draft slot, I guess.

1191
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,599
I mean Kobe White, who's not there anymore, and you

1192
00:55:46,639 --> 00:55:50,480
didn't really get anything for him. So that's the thing.

1193
00:55:50,519 --> 00:55:53,400
Some of their better draft picks are not there. So

1194
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:54,880
so that's that's an issue.

1195
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,599
Speaker 2: We don't know enough about Uh, he's injured and hadn't

1196
00:55:58,599 --> 00:55:59,079
really played.

1197
00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: We played six minute.

1198
00:56:00,039 --> 00:56:02,119
Speaker 2: It's this season, Mike God Noah sang yay, we don't

1199
00:56:02,159 --> 00:56:05,599
know enough about him. Dale and Terry at eighteen in

1200
00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:08,440
twenty twenty two. I mean, the sheer number of times

1201
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,679
they haven't had their first round pick for a franchise

1202
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,360
that hasn't won a playoff series eleven years, going back

1203
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:15,119
to the Boots.

1204
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,559
Speaker 3: Trade, right, that's the key. That's the key there.

1205
00:56:17,679 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 2: Wendell Carter Junior was a good pick in twenty eighteen. Yeah,

1206
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,199
I was in the bag forgib Well. They didn't keep him,

1207
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:24,800
but I was in the bag for Justin Patten. If

1208
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,159
you care, Denzel Valentine at the end of the lottery

1209
00:56:27,199 --> 00:56:28,800
in twenty sixteen, you remember that one.

1210
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 3: I'm sure I like that one at the time.

1211
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 2: I do you want to take a who?

1212
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: We're in the top five now?

1213
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: So the Bulls were the first Karmak score in the

1214
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,239
eighties with an eighty one.

1215
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: Who is a number five number? Yeah, number five grand.

1216
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,119
Speaker 3: Sorry. The Porland Trailblazers edged them out by a single

1217
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:47,079
point with a Karma score of eighty two. Uh, this

1218
00:56:47,159 --> 00:56:49,880
is we're just kind of midpacky across the board here.

1219
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,760
No score lower than a five, no score higher than

1220
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,199
a ten. I guess the standout category here is ethical

1221
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,760
competitive spirit. We both gave them tens. The Blazers haven't

1222
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,440
really tanked. It's tricky because like they have had some

1223
00:57:04,519 --> 00:57:08,159
meaningless stretch runs, you know, I for the billion times,

1224
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:10,920
Like remember when Anthony Simons was crazy down the stretch

1225
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,400
of all those meaningless games. Everybody went there was a

1226
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:20,000
few instances of that, but I can't remember. Or they've

1227
00:57:20,039 --> 00:57:22,239
tanked a little bit, but it hasn't been egregious to

1228
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:23,760
the point where it's light tanking.

1229
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: Still light tanking.

1230
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,559
Speaker 3: It brushed up against tanking. I think really like over

1231
00:57:29,559 --> 00:57:32,639
the last couple of years, specifically, like the Avdia trade

1232
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,159
was they gave up the pick in that trade, so

1233
00:57:35,519 --> 00:57:39,559
they have, you know, kind of prioritized more present success.

1234
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,199
I think maybe we've questioned that a few times, but

1235
00:57:43,639 --> 00:57:46,880
I'd say generally speaking, they're not up to too many

1236
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,880
shenanigans other than that franchise competency nine for you, ten

1237
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,719
for me out of fifteen. Again pretty solid, that's solid.

1238
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,639
Speaker 2: There's a case for them to be lower when you

1239
00:57:58,639 --> 00:58:01,159
look at how long they waited on the Dame situation

1240
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:02,400
or kind of that's true.

1241
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,079
Speaker 1: We did ding the Grizzlies for this.

1242
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,199
Speaker 2: The Blazers were also kind of the czars of half

1243
00:58:08,239 --> 00:58:11,400
measures too, where it's oh, we've got Robert Covington. It

1244
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,840
wasn't we ever went after like the big name. It's

1245
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,559
it's feeling they've taken bigger swings to me when you

1246
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:18,480
look at Danny Avida and even Drew Holliday than they

1247
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,039
ever did when like Dames first go around there. But

1248
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,639
I don't like, I don't know how much more to

1249
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:26,480
have penalized them for that.

1250
00:58:26,639 --> 00:58:29,039
Speaker 3: No, I do think this is in a category. But like,

1251
00:58:29,679 --> 00:58:31,400
this is a team that if they did get the

1252
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,840
number one pick, I would be here for it because

1253
00:58:34,079 --> 00:58:36,960
we love Danny Avdya, we like some of their other

1254
00:58:37,039 --> 00:58:39,800
young guys. I do think there's a decent case to

1255
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,440
be made. They still need a best player. You gave

1256
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,800
them an eight there, I gave them an eleven. I

1257
00:58:46,119 --> 00:58:49,639
think like we we love Avidya. We're not totally sure

1258
00:58:49,639 --> 00:58:52,440
that should be your very very best player, because.

1259
00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:54,599
Speaker 2: I think if you're gonna say to be the best

1260
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:59,440
player entrenched as that you're looking at multiple All NBA teams,

1261
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:01,679
and Kenny, I don't want to say he's going to

1262
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:03,440
be a one off because he would be in the

1263
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,519
All ANBA discussion even if some of these, even if

1264
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:07,960
a Jannis, even if it looked like a Jokic was

1265
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,880
going Yokic is still eligible right now. But you know

1266
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,360
what I'm saying, But is this like how regularly is

1267
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,800
he gonna be in the All NBA discussion. We don't

1268
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,320
really know because he's having that lowry market and type

1269
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,280
mid career breakout.

1270
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:22,239
Speaker 1: But to that.

1271
00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:24,519
Speaker 2: Point, I don't know what's And Shane Shump's been a

1272
00:59:24,559 --> 00:59:25,440
lot better this year.

1273
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: We've seen very little of Scoot.

1274
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 2: I don't know what to make of their drafting track

1275
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,119
record Donovanuay and I was completely wrong on Tomaniy Kamara.

1276
00:59:33,159 --> 00:59:35,000
They didn't draft, they got him in the trade. I

1277
00:59:35,039 --> 00:59:38,159
think what really nudges up their franchise competency score. I'm

1278
00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:39,960
still convinced that Jan Hanson is gonna be good. And

1279
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:41,239
I don't know if you saw, but he said he

1280
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,360
wanted to kiss Nicole Kich at All Stars.

1281
00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: So he's future superstar in my book.

1282
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,159
Speaker 2: So, but the trades that they've made, I think a

1283
00:59:50,199 --> 00:59:52,440
lot of them, like the Damian Lillard trade in hindsight,

1284
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,960
oh my god, yeah two. Some of the other moves

1285
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,280
bumped up for me their ethical competitive spirit ranking because

1286
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,119
trading for Denni Avdia when they were still not trying.

1287
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: To necessarily be good.

1288
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 2: And then the Drew Holliday you talk about being not

1289
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:09,840
that we hated that trade, but it was sort of

1290
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,119
so they traded for Drew Holliday and his contract and

1291
01:00:12,159 --> 01:00:16,280
didn't really didn't get assets for that. Oh, this year,

1292
01:00:16,679 --> 01:00:18,440
Draw Holiday hasn't played like in a bunch of body.

1293
01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:20,639
He played in twenty seven games. We're recording this, but

1294
01:00:20,719 --> 01:00:23,320
he's shooting well from three. I was looking the other day,

1295
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:27,159
Grant so true usage, which incorporates you know this passing,

1296
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:32,199
uh passing and turnovers and scoring possessions. His jump in

1297
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:34,719
true usage from last year to this year is the

1298
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:35,840
single biggest in the.

1299
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: NBA ge minutes.

1300
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 3: It's insane.

1301
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,639
Speaker 2: And also the Blazers have a bout a v average

1302
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:45,119
offense and that's a big deal for this team. When

1303
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:48,760
Drew Holidays on the floor without Denniaffia, this is just

1304
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:49,639
like this team is.

1305
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: You're right, this would be the karmakle.

1306
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 2: They wouldn't be the team to get the number one

1307
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:55,840
pick speak, but they would be one.

1308
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,079
Speaker 1: Of the most if you got the number one pick.

1309
01:00:58,159 --> 01:01:00,320
The teams that like, oh they're as.

1310
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,159
Speaker 2: Tract yep, that would be oh wow, like this is

1311
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,920
what are they ready to do as early as next season?

1312
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 3: M I agree, all right, we're moving up big jonp.

1313
01:01:09,559 --> 01:01:13,679
Speaker 2: Number four the Washington Wizards eighty seven Karma scale, so

1314
01:01:13,719 --> 01:01:18,320
we were almost in the nineties here. They're tough because

1315
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,000
I struggled with them on so many levels franchise competency.

1316
01:01:22,199 --> 01:01:24,559
If you go back far enough, they're not going to

1317
01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:28,039
rank very highly. But this front office has done and

1318
01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:30,480
buying large a good job of conveying the right message

1319
01:01:30,719 --> 01:01:33,159
and doing the right things. But you have to throw in,

1320
01:01:33,719 --> 01:01:36,960
all right, the Trey Young and Anthony Davis trades opportunistically

1321
01:01:37,199 --> 01:01:39,559
looking at the cost, they gave up not a ton,

1322
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:41,199
but what is that signal?

1323
01:01:41,519 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: So I grappled with that.

1324
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,159
Speaker 2: I also grappled with and I ultimately put them pretty

1325
01:01:46,199 --> 01:01:48,119
high on how badly do they need a best player?

1326
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,960
Unless you believe that it's Alex Sar, Anthony Davis or

1327
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,599
Trey Young. I don't and I can't in my heart

1328
01:01:56,599 --> 01:01:58,800
of hearts, I can't believe that they expect Anthony Davis

1329
01:01:58,840 --> 01:01:59,519
or Trey Young.

1330
01:01:59,360 --> 01:01:59,679
Speaker 1: To be that.

1331
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:02,639
Speaker 3: I mean they will be next year. One of those

1332
01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:05,039
two will will those those are there. One two's Alex

1333
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:07,000
Sar is not close to being as good as either

1334
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:09,000
of the guys healthy. But yeah, like that, they're not

1335
01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:11,280
really They're not really on the team, you know what

1336
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:11,639
I mean.

1337
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,719
Speaker 2: So and that, and then it's you run out of it.

1338
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,920
So if we're not factoring in or you, we do

1339
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:19,280
need to factor in the veterans. But it's just if

1340
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,880
it's not Sar, I don't think it's any I love

1341
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,760
Keishawn George, but it's not anybody. It can't be anybody

1342
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,320
at this point. It's not gonna be Bala Kulabali. That's

1343
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,719
not Trey Johnson's game. It's not gonna be bub Carrington.

1344
01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:32,920
That was another category I struggled with for them. Now

1345
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:37,559
the ethical competitive spirit thing. Is there more honor in

1346
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,239
just being bad off rip because you've assembled your roster

1347
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,800
that way over the offseason and you're so bad that

1348
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,039
you don't need to bench any of your best players.

1349
01:02:47,719 --> 01:02:50,880
That's another element of this that I that I grappled with.

1350
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I went, as I'm looking at it now,

1351
01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:57,800
I gave him a two. But you're right, like they've

1352
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:02,000
just been kind of organically bad. I would say, like,

1353
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,760
I think there were ways they could have performed better,

1354
01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:10,360
but they have not done quite the same level of,

1355
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:16,400
you know, just findable stuff that that some other teams

1356
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,400
have done. So I feel like I feel a little

1357
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,280
bit of regret giving them that low of a score

1358
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:25,519
there that said, like, well, here's a question, Oh boy,

1359
01:03:26,039 --> 01:03:30,920
if they assuming because I really enjoy this exercise, if

1360
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,079
we do this next year, what where will your head

1361
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:39,760
be if they extend Anthony Davis and or keep Trey Young?

1362
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,719
Like what? Because what does that mean? Are we just bullsing? Now?

1363
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,639
Speaker 2: Is that is that they don't trust their draft scouting department?

1364
01:03:47,719 --> 01:03:50,039
I guess I don't know what would be the or

1365
01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:56,159
ted Leonsis is done with this multi year being bad thing.

1366
01:03:56,239 --> 01:03:59,559
Speaker 3: Right even though it didn't yield what multi multiple years

1367
01:03:59,559 --> 01:04:01,840
of being bad should have yielded in theory, and and

1368
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,280
maybe that's the jump off point too. They have the

1369
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,400
highest burned by lottery God score of anybody in this exercise.

1370
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:12,159
We both gave them fifteens. That's because they've had several

1371
01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:15,360
terrible seasons in a row and never landed number one,

1372
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,039
and when they landed number two was in a terrible draft. Yeah. Uh,

1373
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,119
like everybody like Star is a good pick at two

1374
01:04:22,159 --> 01:04:26,000
probably in that draft, but like, yeah, I mean that's

1375
01:04:26,039 --> 01:04:28,599
that was the wrong draft to get your your highest

1376
01:04:28,639 --> 01:04:30,639
pick in. So so they've had some bad luck on

1377
01:04:30,679 --> 01:04:31,320
that front.

1378
01:04:31,599 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do you, how would you?

1379
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:37,119
Speaker 2: I guess that we have to see what the extension

1380
01:04:37,159 --> 01:04:39,400
terms would be for either Anthony Davis or Tree Young.

1381
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,079
But I at this point, Trey Young situation is different

1382
01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:44,159
because he has that player option, But I don't know

1383
01:04:44,239 --> 01:04:46,199
what the deal would need to be to make me

1384
01:04:46,199 --> 01:04:50,840
feel comfortable giving another three guaranteed years to and it's

1385
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,519
not gonna be, you know, three for one twenty. He's

1386
01:04:53,559 --> 01:04:56,800
not dood but so and I so based on the

1387
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,119
reporting that A. Rich Paul and Anthony Davis had no

1388
01:05:00,159 --> 01:05:02,679
idea that Wizards were viable contender, it makes leaves me

1389
01:05:02,719 --> 01:05:04,800
believe that they have no intention of extending.

1390
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: Him this summer, which is he's the right movie.

1391
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that is too. The only hesitation I

1392
01:05:09,719 --> 01:05:12,920
have is like, you didn't really give up anything to

1393
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:14,599
get either of these guys, So it's like I.

1394
01:05:14,599 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 2: Might have been one for it's probably gonna be one

1395
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,440
first round pick, and that one first round pick is

1396
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:19,719
going to convey at number thirty.

1397
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we would have been much harder on them,

1398
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,920
say in a franchise competency category, had they really had

1399
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,320
to give up anything of consequence for either Young or Davis,

1400
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,280
or if it was very clear that they viewed them

1401
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:36,239
as like, these are our two cornerstones. Now we're going

1402
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,159
to go as far as they take this, like, which

1403
01:05:39,199 --> 01:05:41,159
is why I asked about the extensions and keeping those

1404
01:05:41,159 --> 01:05:45,000
guys around, because because to me, there's a chance that

1405
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:48,960
we look very unfavorably on them this time next year,

1406
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,760
depending on what happens with those two veterans that they got.

1407
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,320
It helps that they didn't give up anything that mattered

1408
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,559
to get them. H Like, that's just one of those Okay, yeah,

1409
01:05:57,559 --> 01:05:59,519
we'll take them. We'll see what happens. We're not playing

1410
01:05:59,519 --> 01:06:00,239
for anything any.

1411
01:06:00,599 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm talking myself into them being too low somehow

1412
01:06:03,039 --> 01:06:07,639
at number four, but what else, how else do we

1413
01:06:07,679 --> 01:06:10,559
want rebuilds to go other than what the Wizards have done.

1414
01:06:10,599 --> 01:06:12,239
Is there have been the three or four years of

1415
01:06:12,719 --> 01:06:15,039
they haven't done anything to short circuit it. They've been

1416
01:06:15,079 --> 01:06:17,679
opportunistic at the trade deadline you look at taking on money.

1417
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:20,840
Maybe they've never gotten that crown jewel of a draft

1418
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,599
pick back, but they didn't have this front office regime,

1419
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:26,920
took over a roster that didn't have a crown joe,

1420
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,679
like the fact that they got off Bradley Beal when

1421
01:06:28,679 --> 01:06:31,559
they did, or that they weren't saddled with the turning

1422
01:06:31,559 --> 01:06:32,559
Bradley Beal on to C. J.

1423
01:06:32,679 --> 01:06:34,559
Speaker 1: McCollum was kind of a stroke of genius.

1424
01:06:34,599 --> 01:06:36,679
Speaker 2: And now you get to what I think we all

1425
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,719
would agree somewhat is all right, the like three to

1426
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,360
five year rebuilding life cycle is ideal or that should

1427
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:48,239
be the median length. They're there and they took swings

1428
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,519
without over mortgaging the future if you think they're the

1429
01:06:51,559 --> 01:06:55,599
wrong players, and that's totally fair to consider, Like what else,

1430
01:06:56,159 --> 01:06:59,119
what have the Wizards done that would go against what

1431
01:06:59,159 --> 01:07:01,880
we want to see in rebuild? I guess these trades

1432
01:07:02,159 --> 01:07:04,760
specifically speaking, would do that. But they haven't done anything

1433
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,440
to actually impact the bottom line of performance.

1434
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:08,559
Speaker 1: Yet either, I.

1435
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,199
Speaker 3: Would say from a process perspective, they've kind of followed

1436
01:07:11,199 --> 01:07:14,159
the blueprint we like, and we've been broadly very positive

1437
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,599
about about this whole thing that they've that they've engaged in,

1438
01:07:17,639 --> 01:07:21,239
basically post Bradley Beal, because it was such a departure,

1439
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:23,760
like this was another Bulls type team that was like,

1440
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,760
we'd love to be the seventh or eighth seed. That's

1441
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,440
an awesome goal. Let's chase that every year. They they

1442
01:07:28,679 --> 01:07:30,440
cast that off and they did the right stuff. I

1443
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:33,679
think maybe they don't rank higher because you can't point

1444
01:07:33,719 --> 01:07:39,000
to any really obviously good decision that they've made during

1445
01:07:39,039 --> 01:07:42,079
the process, you know, whether that's hitting on a draft pick,

1446
01:07:42,599 --> 01:07:46,199
whether that's like a genius signing.

1447
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,519
Speaker 2: Or I don't that's I'm just trying to rationalize it's

1448
01:07:48,639 --> 01:07:51,320
Keshawn George is probably the closest they've come to this

1449
01:07:51,639 --> 01:07:55,360
with just an home I mean where where he was drafted.

1450
01:07:55,599 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 3: And sure sure, but but but that's like, all right,

1451
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,159
so you got you may be your third or fourth

1452
01:08:01,199 --> 01:08:03,000
best player on a good team. You know, Like they

1453
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,880
don't have any there's no master stroke by this front office.

1454
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,559
There's no obvious, like you guys, have you guys, really

1455
01:08:10,639 --> 01:08:13,199
have you deserve it because you've you've done so well.

1456
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,400
I think the main thing that says they deserve it

1457
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,720
is just like they've been unlucky in the lottery in

1458
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:18,479
the past few years.

1459
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,039
Speaker 2: Well, I would say that their larger body of work

1460
01:08:21,119 --> 01:08:23,880
is the master stroke to whereas they haven't tried to

1461
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:29,079
accelerate or decelerate by like these stark margins where you're

1462
01:08:29,119 --> 01:08:30,880
really trying to fast track your way to the bottom

1463
01:08:31,239 --> 01:08:32,520
or to the top, and they haven't done that.

1464
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: I do think there's envy in doing that.

1465
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 2: Its just the yield on it is so hazy right

1466
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:40,600
now that this would be the and based off what

1467
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,800
they're doing that they decided Anthony Davis and Trey Young

1468
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,439
was better than cap Space this summer, which objectively speaking,

1469
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:51,600
would you have preferred if if if the edict was

1470
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:53,800
they have to get a lot better and be relevant

1471
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:55,359
next year, would you have preferred what they did at

1472
01:08:55,399 --> 01:08:58,199
the trade the line or them spending like ninety million

1473
01:08:58,239 --> 01:09:00,560
dollars one hundred million dollars in for agency.

1474
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,199
Speaker 3: I don't think you're getting anywhere close to the upside

1475
01:09:03,359 --> 01:09:06,279
of Davis and Young. If you're spending cap space in

1476
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:08,960
free agency to get it, like I don't. There's no way.

1477
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:11,880
I do think this is a good transition point because

1478
01:09:12,199 --> 01:09:16,000
the next team, which is only three Karma points ahead

1479
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:19,920
of Washington, is very very similar. We're talking about the

1480
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:26,239
Brooklyn Nets, except they need a best player much worse. So, really,

1481
01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:29,960
if I wonder if the Wizards don't have Davis and Young,

1482
01:09:30,039 --> 01:09:33,720
if actually the Wizards are just ahead of the Nets

1483
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,399
because the Nets both got fifteens from each of us,

1484
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:39,600
because they just don't have anybody that you look at

1485
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,920
and say, I can even squint and imagine him being

1486
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,760
an All star, like who even is that guy?

1487
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: Like Nicholas Claxton.

1488
01:09:48,079 --> 01:09:52,199
Speaker 2: Stand Still playmaking doesn't really get your juices flowing hand

1489
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:53,439
offs this year, Grant, come on.

1490
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 3: So that's the difference. Because so just for perspective, for

1491
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:00,640
how badly do they need a best play The Wizard's

1492
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:02,399
got an eleven from you and a nine for me,

1493
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,720
and then again the fifteen's the matching fifteen's swap those

1494
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,640
or even narrow the gap, and then the Wizards are

1495
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,319
just third and the Nets or fourth. So this is

1496
01:10:11,399 --> 01:10:14,880
very much a statement on Brooklyn's need to get a

1497
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,199
guy in the draft that they can build around because

1498
01:10:17,199 --> 01:10:21,119
they just they have maybe some theoretical complimentary pieces and

1499
01:10:21,159 --> 01:10:23,119
all these guys that's you know, a we care about

1500
01:10:23,159 --> 01:10:25,920
passing and being connective and all that kind of stuff.

1501
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,119
They just don't have the guy. So so that's that's

1502
01:10:29,239 --> 01:10:32,000
that's the whole reason they're here. That's why they're this high.

1503
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,600
Speaker 2: We both had them at a fourteen and burned by

1504
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:38,880
the lottery gods yep too, which is is that when

1505
01:10:39,119 --> 01:10:41,399
you kind of just look at is that too high

1506
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:43,880
now that I'm like kind of, well, the fact.

1507
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,640
Speaker 3: That they don't have the guy is indicative of they

1508
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,039
haven't picked high enough to get him. Uh, you know,

1509
01:10:48,119 --> 01:10:51,279
they they had a now I was gonna.

1510
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:57,119
Speaker 2: Their own design because of other transactions that they've made

1511
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:00,319
and also just the we you were lower on them

1512
01:11:00,359 --> 01:11:03,359
I think when it came to franchise competency than I was.

1513
01:11:03,399 --> 01:11:05,199
But a lot of the reason that they're in this

1514
01:11:05,359 --> 01:11:08,199
rebuild at all is because after they went through what

1515
01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:11,199
we all thought was a master stroke rebuild, yep, they

1516
01:11:11,199 --> 01:11:14,199
short circuited it for Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and then

1517
01:11:14,239 --> 01:11:17,399
that whole thing and then James Harden's there, DeAndre Jordan's there,

1518
01:11:17,399 --> 01:11:19,560
and they've made missed up. But now it feels like

1519
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:23,600
they rebounded not I'm wondering if I don't karmically speaking,

1520
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:24,439
they might be too high.

1521
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,039
Speaker 3: That they might be too high if you go back

1522
01:11:27,079 --> 01:11:30,560
and think about the we're going to spend our double

1523
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,560
maxes on Kde and Kyrie, and we're gonna fast track

1524
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,520
the super team. Steve Nash is going to be our coach.

1525
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:40,439
Remember that for a second. Like they they definitely if

1526
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,560
you go back farther, I think franchise competency probably has

1527
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,920
to take a hit. I'll admit that I mostly thought

1528
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:52,760
about mostly not entirely, just like the Jordi Fernandez era,

1529
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,359
I guess, which is very short. But like once this

1530
01:11:55,680 --> 01:12:00,159
rebuild started, which is post those vets, that's kind no

1531
01:12:00,199 --> 01:12:03,039
more what I looked at. But yeah, you could really

1532
01:12:03,119 --> 01:12:05,840
ding them if you wanted to, like just have a

1533
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:06,640
broader window.

1534
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,199
Speaker 2: But you're considering Here's the thing is they they weren't

1535
01:12:09,279 --> 01:12:12,680
very high in the fan base pain because their drought

1536
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,159
and their their series drought are not very long, and

1537
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:19,119
we did not have them high in ethical competitive spirit,

1538
01:12:19,279 --> 01:12:22,199
and so it's even if you lower them and burned

1539
01:12:22,239 --> 01:12:24,600
by lottery gods, there's still a chance that they're gonna

1540
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:26,680
end They're gonna end up in the top five, regardless

1541
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,760
because of mostly how badly they need a best I

1542
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,960
don't is there a team that needs a best player

1543
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:34,640
on their Like? Who would be if you had to

1544
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,439
make a case for a team over the nets that

1545
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:38,399
needs the best player?

1546
01:12:38,399 --> 01:12:40,600
Speaker 1: Who is it Chicago?

1547
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,560
Speaker 3: Well, by definition, it's Chicago in our ranking because we

1548
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,399
both gave them a fourteen and that. But I'm trying

1549
01:12:47,399 --> 01:12:50,680
there might be a non lottery I mean probably not,

1550
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:52,800
even if you're I'm trying to think of like playing

1551
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,760
teams that aren't considered here that do you. I mean,

1552
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,760
here's a spicy one Clippers when they lose Kawhi, that's.

1553
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:01,119
Speaker 1: A good one.

1554
01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:04,560
Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking of that. I'm just asking questions. Do

1555
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,800
the Toronto Raptors have him?

1556
01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's way easier to look at Scottie Barnes

1557
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:13,840
and say that's that's a sufficient best player than it

1558
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:19,960
is to look at Nick Claxton. Uh so, Michael Porter sir?

1559
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:24,640
Oh oh? Well, is Porter Junior might be having a

1560
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,439
better year than Scott Probably not. But it's a conversation good,

1561
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:31,640
good retort. We forgot about MPJ not trading MPG to me.

1562
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:35,920
Uh hurts the franchise competency a little bit.

1563
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 2: Well's I would agree, because you don't want the Nets

1564
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,439
to be too married to their twenty twenty seven draft

1565
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:47,800
obligation of Houston. But at the same time, what how

1566
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:50,359
much less are they gonna get for him the whole Oh,

1567
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,880
they would have gotten two playoff runs versus one. I

1568
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,319
think it matters, but it's also overstated. Sure, I don't

1569
01:13:56,319 --> 01:13:58,199
think the office room are gonna get much worse. And also,

1570
01:13:58,279 --> 01:14:01,000
if you have cap space and Michael Porter and then

1571
01:14:01,039 --> 01:14:03,600
you get a really high pick, maybe they are deciding

1572
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,960
that this isn't gonna last very long and so we're

1573
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,239
gonna go and like Michael Porter Junior just fits alongside

1574
01:14:09,279 --> 01:14:11,520
anybody will be on an expiring contract.

1575
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: That's a TBD for me. I'd have to see what

1576
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:14,119
the best offer.

1577
01:14:14,159 --> 01:14:16,079
Speaker 2: If they were sitting there saying, well, we need the

1578
01:14:16,079 --> 01:14:18,520
Desmond Bain package for Michael Porter Junior and then it's

1579
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:22,399
no son, then I'd have questions. I do not have

1580
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:24,520
questions about this team. Who comes in at number two,

1581
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:26,560
the Indiana Pacers with a Karma.

1582
01:14:26,279 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 1: Score of ninety one grand.

1583
01:14:29,279 --> 01:14:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're I'm not surprised at all that they ended

1584
01:14:33,359 --> 01:14:36,159
up here. They do not get a bump, but surprise, surprise,

1585
01:14:36,239 --> 01:14:37,760
their playoff drought hasn't.

1586
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 3: Been They were in the finals eight months ago. Pretty good.

1587
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:48,239
Speaker 2: They they were most stand out for you or no

1588
01:14:48,359 --> 01:14:51,920
for me. When it came to ethical competitive spirit, this

1589
01:14:52,039 --> 01:14:54,640
team doesn't. You could say right now they got fined

1590
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:59,039
for tanking, which is just absolute bs because it was

1591
01:14:59,079 --> 01:15:01,680
sort of an isolated incident by their standards, or it

1592
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:05,279
only just started, and it's this this player participation criteria,

1593
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:08,560
so it's not opaque, but it's so teams like the

1594
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,800
Wizards you can't get fined because it doesn't matter who

1595
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:15,239
they bench. But in the Pacers case, it's just it's

1596
01:15:15,279 --> 01:15:18,720
so inequal, doesn't make sense. But this team doesn't tank.

1597
01:15:19,119 --> 01:15:21,159
They didn't even Herb Simon didn't even want to give

1598
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:24,560
DeAndre like an offer sheet restricted free agency because he

1599
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:27,039
thought it was unfair to the Suns, Like he'd rather

1600
01:15:27,119 --> 01:15:29,119
work out a side in trade and like compensate the

1601
01:15:29,159 --> 01:15:33,800
team for the ethicality. In Indiana, the Hoops, they're just

1602
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:35,239
so ethical and so pure.

1603
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 3: They just try to be the best that they can

1604
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,079
be year to year until this year when it's like

1605
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,359
this is clearly the right thing to be doing. Like

1606
01:15:45,319 --> 01:15:49,239
also just to very high score is ethical, competitive spirit,

1607
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:53,359
franchise competency, just like I don't know the fact that

1608
01:15:53,359 --> 01:15:55,760
they traded to get their twenty twenty six first rounder

1609
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,560
back during the finals last year, and now we're in

1610
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,960
all where it's likely is anyone's to be number one?

1611
01:16:02,279 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 2: Like conspiracy theorists here, you could argue, did they know

1612
01:16:06,039 --> 01:16:07,720
there was a high risk of what was going on

1613
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:09,840
with Tyres Haliburton, that's why they made it. But even

1614
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:13,560
if that's the case, that was incredible. And now the

1615
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,159
one thing I did I gave we both gave him fourteens.

1616
01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 1: You said right in franchise competency.

1617
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 2: They I did not love the way they handled the

1618
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:25,600
Miles Turner situation. But ultimately, how much can you knock

1619
01:16:26,399 --> 01:16:29,560
their lack of commitment to him over the years when

1620
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,359
they still reached the NBA finals and only after Tyres

1621
01:16:32,399 --> 01:16:34,960
Haliburton's injury did they kind of send him on his

1622
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,439
way and didn't receive compensation for him. That matters, But

1623
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:40,960
it's also just I mean, holding got onto him was

1624
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:42,680
the right call, Like that helped them live a lot

1625
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,239
of what they did offensively and even defensively for them.

1626
01:16:45,279 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 3: And you could argue they they got out at the

1627
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,720
right time because he just hasn't been as good and

1628
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:52,760
they have a better player in the pipeline now in Zubats,

1629
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:55,760
which again to go to competitive spirit, they give up

1630
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:57,880
two future first to go get a guy who won't

1631
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:03,199
tell me the Yeah, it just they there's a lot

1632
01:17:03,279 --> 01:17:06,039
to like here, So let's maybe talk about what else

1633
01:17:06,119 --> 01:17:08,640
stands out here. I mean, how badly did they need

1634
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,800
the best player Tyres Haliburton. Well, maybe there's a bit

1635
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:13,960
of an asterisk here if he's not one hundred percent,

1636
01:17:14,239 --> 01:17:19,000
but but like you're not until he proves that he's

1637
01:17:19,039 --> 01:17:21,439
not that same guy, you don't need a best player

1638
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:23,600
because he is. He took him to the finals, took

1639
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,039
him the game seven of the finals, and they might

1640
01:17:25,079 --> 01:17:26,479
have won it if he hadn't gotten hurt. That's the

1641
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:27,680
definition of the best player.

1642
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,039
Speaker 2: However, here's a take that Moret said to me, and

1643
01:17:30,079 --> 01:17:32,760
I called him insane on one of the podcasts we did,

1644
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,359
that if he had the number one pick, or even

1645
01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:39,479
the number two pick, that he would consider reorienting the

1646
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,199
pacers this is before the Zubach trade, he would consider

1647
01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:46,640
reorienting the Pacers around that pick rather than Tyre's Haliburton

1648
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:47,880
because of the Achilles injury.

1649
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 3: To me, that is an endorsement of how great Halburton

1650
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:55,000
is because you don't you can orient around someone else

1651
01:17:55,039 --> 01:17:56,760
and he can still be just as valuable on that

1652
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:59,479
same team. Because what is he like other than defense?

1653
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:01,760
He's a great spot up shoot, Like he will be

1654
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:04,279
great as a secondary creator if you need him to

1655
01:18:04,359 --> 01:18:06,079
do that, Like I just don't.

1656
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean, he deserves that.

1657
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 2: My point was, don't you think that he has earned

1658
01:18:10,039 --> 01:18:14,600
the chance to come back before you make that decision? Uh?

1659
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:15,640
Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

1660
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 1: I I would.

1661
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:20,119
Speaker 3: I would not reorient to use the term around somebody else,

1662
01:18:20,239 --> 01:18:22,880
especially a rookie, Like I'm not changing my timeline.

1663
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 2: They're not, but they've clearly signaled that they're not, just

1664
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,000
by making the Zubats trade.

1665
01:18:27,079 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 3: Right, you don't trade for Zubots if you're like, we're

1666
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:30,800
gonna our timeline is now that of a twenty year

1667
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,840
old that we're about to draft, Like, no way, I

1668
01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:37,840
think again, though, if if, if, whoever they draft, say

1669
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:39,560
they get the number one pick, say it's Debons, I

1670
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:44,399
say it's Boozer, say it's it's whoever. I just think, like,

1671
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:48,279
and that guy is in year two or three on

1672
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,479
a I don't know, like an Anthony Edwards trajectory where

1673
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:54,239
it's like pretty clear that this guy's gonna be making

1674
01:18:54,279 --> 01:18:57,319
a bunch of all NBA teams. I don't think Haliburton

1675
01:18:57,399 --> 01:19:00,560
is someone that's like, well, this isn't a fit. Like

1676
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,920
what he does everything well that you need him to

1677
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,319
do on offense, and like if he gets less defensive attention,

1678
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:11,760
like imagine the passing that the Pacers will have.

1679
01:19:12,319 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 2: I tried to think about a while ago what I

1680
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,079
would be most concerned, Like what area of his game

1681
01:19:17,079 --> 01:19:20,359
would be most concerned about coming off the Achilles injury,

1682
01:19:20,399 --> 01:19:22,279
because it's not they play fast, but a lot of

1683
01:19:22,319 --> 01:19:24,520
the reason they're playing fast is what's happening in the

1684
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,600
half court. Not necessarily he's using blinding explosion to get

1685
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:32,359
up to court, I guess defensively because he had not quietly,

1686
01:19:32,399 --> 01:19:34,239
but he had improved there last year, Like that would

1687
01:19:34,239 --> 01:19:35,720
make him more vulnerable. But if you were trying to

1688
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,720
pinpoint the offensive end, I do wonder if it would

1689
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:41,920
be slightly harder for him to be a secondary guy

1690
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,960
because some of the off ball movement stuff that he did,

1691
01:19:45,079 --> 01:19:48,000
especially post Buddy Heel trade way back. When does that

1692
01:19:48,159 --> 01:19:51,159
get any harder if you're not working, you know, if

1693
01:19:51,159 --> 01:19:53,319
you're not working, if the achilles injury just sort of

1694
01:19:53,399 --> 01:19:54,319
impacts your movement.

1695
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:58,079
Speaker 3: I actually think I would be more worried about him

1696
01:19:58,119 --> 01:20:00,359
creating his own shots because that was kind of a

1697
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,359
that's that's been an issue in parts of his career

1698
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,399
to this point, and if you aren't quite as twitchy,

1699
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:09,479
I could see that being But he's still gonna be

1700
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,840
so valuable just because of how he sees the floor.

1701
01:20:12,039 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 2: I ultimately think, I ultimately think this is gonna be

1702
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:18,079
a Kevin Durant type of just come back from Tyre's

1703
01:20:18,079 --> 01:20:20,800
Halliburn is that if there is a difference with Kevin Durant,

1704
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,520
you also how much of it is actually associated with age,

1705
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:25,680
And so like even Tatum too.

1706
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:26,680
Speaker 1: I just look at those guys.

1707
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:28,800
Speaker 2: Maybe they come back and they're like five or ten

1708
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:31,279
percent worse, and that still means that they're gonna be

1709
01:20:31,319 --> 01:20:32,640
in the MVP discussion each.

1710
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:34,279
Speaker 3: Year, right right?

1711
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 2: The number one team Grant, Do you want to guess

1712
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:39,800
who it is? I mean, I'm looking at the sheet,

1713
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:42,600
this Charlotte Hornets.

1714
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: Karmack score of ninety three.

1715
01:20:45,159 --> 01:20:47,600
Speaker 2: I want to ask you this before we get into

1716
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,079
the nitty gritty of how they've fired.

1717
01:20:49,279 --> 01:20:54,199
Speaker 3: Are you surprised? No, Because we're so clearly in the

1718
01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:56,920
bag for the Hornets. I think that we we unethically

1719
01:20:57,079 --> 01:21:00,399
just made this happen. Tell me I'm wrong. I'm a

1720
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:02,680
little surprised. I'm a little surprised, but I.

1721
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 2: Think two things above all really shifted where they ended

1722
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:12,079
up here. One is just objectively, they maxed out the

1723
01:21:12,199 --> 01:21:14,520
years they like. They more than maxed out. They haven't

1724
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:17,359
want a playoff series in twenty plus years, so they

1725
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:19,399
got a score of fifteen them The Kings are the

1726
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:21,399
only team to do that. They also have a very

1727
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:24,640
long playoff drought. It's longer than the Kings's, so that's

1728
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,159
gonna bump them up. They had the single longest playoff

1729
01:21:27,239 --> 01:21:28,319
drought of anyone.

1730
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 3: YEP.

1731
01:21:29,079 --> 01:21:31,159
Speaker 1: On top of those things, though, I.

1732
01:21:31,319 --> 01:21:36,399
Speaker 2: Really do think the shift from the Michael Jordan led

1733
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:39,760
ownership to this group led by Rick Shnall and then

1734
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,079
having Jeff Pearson in the front office, and the move

1735
01:21:42,199 --> 01:21:45,319
that they have made over the past couple of years

1736
01:21:46,199 --> 01:21:48,800
really solidified their spot in Now, if you look at

1737
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:51,600
franchise competency, they they actually finished.

1738
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:53,159
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't realize they were pretty high.

1739
01:21:53,199 --> 01:21:56,520
Speaker 2: For you, they probably if we did this two years ago,

1740
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:57,920
there's a chance that they would have been like in

1741
01:21:58,039 --> 01:21:58,920
one of the bottom three.

1742
01:21:59,279 --> 01:22:01,640
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, like, no doubt, like they were.

1743
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:03,960
They were. It's hard to beat the Kings, but they

1744
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,520
would have been in consideration with literally anybody else, Like

1745
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,880
to two is not crazy like during the Jordan era

1746
01:22:10,039 --> 01:22:12,199
like that. You don't you don't pile up a playoff

1747
01:22:12,239 --> 01:22:14,359
draught like that if you're being run well like they,

1748
01:22:15,079 --> 01:22:17,359
you know, they they definitely would have been really low there.

1749
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:20,880
So I just viewed you you alluded to it the

1750
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:24,000
way this rebuild has gone, Like the patience they've exercised,

1751
01:22:24,039 --> 01:22:27,520
the willingness to make the little marginal incremental moves, to

1752
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:31,359
not take a big dumb swing, to just happily accept seconds,

1753
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,680
to to not tie up the books, like all of

1754
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,880
that has been exactly what you want to see. And

1755
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:40,640
I think it's a little bit like the Wizards have done,

1756
01:22:41,279 --> 01:22:44,520
except like the Hornets have just made the right picks

1757
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,279
and they've held on to players that maybe other teams

1758
01:22:47,319 --> 01:22:50,720
would have cut bait on, like LaMelo for example. They've

1759
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:52,920
they've had a lot of difficult decisions mixed in there

1760
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,720
with like the small, un sexy moves. So like they

1761
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:59,239
kind of, to me, at least in the most recent seasons,

1762
01:22:59,279 --> 01:23:02,279
which is kind of what I'm considering, have kind of

1763
01:23:02,319 --> 01:23:06,399
done all the stuff right. So that's a big discrepancy

1764
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:08,560
for us there. But I just I feel strongly that

1765
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:11,880
they've just done a great job front office wise.

1766
01:23:12,319 --> 01:23:15,840
Speaker 2: Their big miss it doesn't it's not doesn't look as

1767
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,199
egregious now, but like t John Salon at number six

1768
01:23:18,359 --> 01:23:20,479
is still maybe the biggest blemish on their record. I

1769
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:23,079
guess some people would say not trading LaMelo ball, but

1770
01:23:23,199 --> 01:23:26,600
that part that patience has been kind of validated by

1771
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:28,479
what they're doing as we're recording.

1772
01:23:28,199 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 3: This at this moment exactly now, I think that's what

1773
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:34,720
I mean. Like, I'm sure in discussions with you over

1774
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:36,399
the last couple of years, I've said they should trade

1775
01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:38,640
him because I don't think he's gonna stay healthy enough

1776
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:40,560
or get to the level of where he's your best

1777
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,199
player and you're doing anything.

1778
01:23:43,359 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 2: But now they might be a little jazzy because of

1779
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:48,199
Conk Nipple and Brandon Miller right.

1780
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,720
Speaker 3: Well, but the thing is like they don't so they

1781
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,039
can win it two ways. Either LaMelo can sustain this

1782
01:23:53,159 --> 01:23:55,760
and can you continue to improve and Charlotte keeps winning

1783
01:23:56,279 --> 01:23:59,079
and he is that guy, or it doesn't matter because

1784
01:23:59,119 --> 01:24:01,239
Conk Nipple is and you drafted him in a spot

1785
01:24:01,279 --> 01:24:03,800
where it was like, ooh, that's high and now it's

1786
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:05,920
like he should be Rookie of the Year and he's

1787
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:08,279
having the greatest shooting season by a rookie ever. I

1788
01:24:08,359 --> 01:24:11,279
have no doubt Nipple will make like many many All

1789
01:24:11,319 --> 01:24:13,760
Star Games, and that feels like a floor. So so

1790
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,479
just like they the LaMelo of it all is kind

1791
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,600
of right sized now because you don't need him to

1792
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,560
be your absolute apex guy. You have another crack at it.

1793
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,279
And that's before getting to Brandon Miller, who like, yeah,

1794
01:24:26,319 --> 01:24:28,000
I don't know, I could see it in a couple

1795
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:29,880
of years if he's the best player on this team,

1796
01:24:30,039 --> 01:24:31,239
not not unthinkable.

1797
01:24:32,279 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 1: I gave him a pretty huge.

1798
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:37,640
Speaker 2: Bumping competitive spirit too, because so many of their poor

1799
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,520
showings have just been the Mello was injured and we

1800
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:44,279
don't have anybody else there, so they've never been. They've

1801
01:24:44,359 --> 01:24:46,760
been tank they've tanked, but they've never been among the

1802
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:50,359
most They've never consistently been among the most egregious tankers.

1803
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:53,479
I will say, if we were trying to go by,

1804
01:24:54,119 --> 01:24:56,279
I want to just see what would happen next year

1805
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:01,479
if this team won the draft lottery. The Blaze, the Jazz,

1806
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,319
and the Hornets are like super high up there for me,

1807
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:08,680
that that could Pacers chaotic the Pacers. For me, the

1808
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:11,119
Pacers would be fascinating from us. So all these other

1809
01:25:11,199 --> 01:25:14,159
teams I name are still sort of in the they're

1810
01:25:14,239 --> 01:25:18,039
looking to break into the relevant spectrum. There would be

1811
01:25:18,119 --> 01:25:20,840
such a fascinating dynamic to see the Pacers trying to

1812
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,760
contend for a title while integrating. It'd be the Warriors

1813
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:25,960
with James Wiseman essentially, But you hope it goes better.

1814
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:27,119
Speaker 3: How do we but it works?

1815
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 1: But it will it work?

1816
01:25:29,079 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 2: How do we integrate this incredibly hot because that's a

1817
01:25:32,199 --> 01:25:35,560
that's a delicate balance to strike even on lower levels.

1818
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,039
You just see it where like teams that we really

1819
01:25:38,159 --> 01:25:40,199
like this end of first round prospect or the second

1820
01:25:40,279 --> 01:25:40,600
round pick.

1821
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:42,119
Speaker 1: But it's how do you carve out minutes when the

1822
01:25:42,159 --> 01:25:43,119
stakes are so high?

1823
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:46,319
Speaker 3: For you. Yeah, Now, I would trust them to figure

1824
01:25:46,359 --> 01:25:48,399
it out. I would trust for Carlisle to figure it out.

1825
01:25:49,279 --> 01:25:53,359
I do think we should note that the Pacers run

1826
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:56,800
away with this if not for the Hornets playoff drought,

1827
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:01,000
because that is a massive score, and the Pacers have

1828
01:26:01,079 --> 01:26:05,119
the lowest scores in those categories. Uh So if not

1829
01:26:05,359 --> 01:26:07,359
for those, like, I'm trying to think of any other

1830
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:10,960
scenario where like, if not for this category, things would

1831
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:13,520
have been more different. That's the one. The Pacers are

1832
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:16,520
probably ten points clear of everybody else in the KRMA

1833
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:20,199
rankings if the Hornets didn't have the longest playoff drought

1834
01:26:20,239 --> 01:26:22,439
outside of the Kings. And but look, fan base paying

1835
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:24,800
matters to me though, too, and it should I should.

1836
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:26,880
I'm just saying that's carrying all that's lift doing a

1837
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:28,159
lot of the lift, which is.

1838
01:26:28,279 --> 01:26:30,840
Speaker 1: Just I mean, even who was the last Charlotte Hornet

1839
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:31,960
to make an All NBA team?

1840
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:35,039
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Kemba Walker did he ever make one?

1841
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:38,159
Speaker 2: It was Kemba Walker. And it's like kember Walker and

1842
01:26:38,199 --> 01:26:40,600
Al Jefferson were their two most recent All NBA players,

1843
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,920
which is that's a This fan base has indored a lot.

1844
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:45,720
When you're looking at the basketball product on the floor.

1845
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,680
And they've also don't you feel they've maybe been teased

1846
01:26:49,399 --> 01:26:53,079
the most just because you have this potentially transcendent player

1847
01:26:53,159 --> 01:26:55,800
in LaMelo. Even Brandon Miller until this season when you're

1848
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:58,439
looking at his availability in the flashes, he's shown a

1849
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:01,479
constant were how many did we enter the season saying

1850
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:03,439
I don't know, man, the Hornets have a lot of dudes,

1851
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:05,119
like they might surprise some people in these This is

1852
01:27:05,159 --> 01:27:07,319
like pre Conkin Nipple, pre Brandon Miller too.

1853
01:27:08,359 --> 01:27:11,239
Speaker 3: No, I mean, and just to pile on like KAlP

1854
01:27:11,279 --> 01:27:13,199
Brinner is a good pick where they got him, Seon

1855
01:27:13,359 --> 01:27:16,680
James is that plays real minutes where they This is

1856
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:19,399
just a franchise competency. Again, like they they've done a

1857
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:24,680
lot right in again post post ownership change.

1858
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:28,560
Speaker 2: They have to like a like quietly solid drafts dash

1859
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:31,279
all of their own that Mavericks pick that heat pick

1860
01:27:31,399 --> 01:27:33,159
so they could be active up it if they win

1861
01:27:33,239 --> 01:27:36,079
the lottery and they also have I really hope it's

1862
01:27:36,119 --> 01:27:36,560
the Pacers.

1863
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:37,520
Speaker 1: The Blazers are there.

1864
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 2: I want every fan base to get the number one pick,

1865
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:41,119
but the Pacers, the Blazers, the.

1866
01:27:41,199 --> 01:27:44,159
Speaker 1: Hornets, and the Jazz would be just the most fascinating.

1867
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 3: Ones to me, and so, if deserve has anything to

1868
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,640
do with it, the Charlotte Hornets will win the draft lottery.

1869
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:52,199
They deserve it most. It's been mathematically proven.

1870
01:27:52,399 --> 01:27:54,600
Speaker 2: They won karma score of ninety three. That was the

1871
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,720
benchmark to beat and no one beat it. They are

1872
01:27:58,239 --> 01:28:00,760
karmically the team that deserves the ione pick the most.

1873
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:01,479
Speaker 1: Do you agree?

1874
01:28:02,319 --> 01:28:03,119
Speaker 3: Do you disagree?

1875
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think of karma. This was fun.

1876
01:28:06,079 --> 01:28:06,640
I enjoyed it.

1877
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:11,119
Speaker 3: I just liked that we really did some science. You know.

1878
01:28:12,159 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 1: Spoiler ears.

1879
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,600
Speaker 2: This might be expanded to to include more people and

1880
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:19,399
appear on a certain website that both of us work for.

1881
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:22,680
Speaker 3: So and I think we'll fine tune it. We might

1882
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:25,399
add or subtract categories. We might. There's there's a lot

1883
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:26,720
of directions to go here.

1884
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:29,239
Speaker 2: This is an annual Unless people hate it, this is

1885
01:28:29,279 --> 01:28:30,279
an annual podcast.

1886
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 1: I just feel like we're going to do it. Fuck

1887
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:34,319
the audience.

1888
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:38,159
Speaker 3: We love you guys, all right, you got anything to add?

1889
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:39,560
Speaker 1: No, you're ready to take us out?

1890
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,199
Speaker 2: The look fifteen teams in under ninety minutes while explaining

1891
01:28:42,399 --> 01:28:46,720
the super scientific karma metric that we came up with.

1892
01:28:47,079 --> 01:28:49,199
Speaker 1: That's that's banner pacing by us.

1893
01:28:50,199 --> 01:28:53,199
Speaker 3: Thank you everybody for listening, for watching. Make sure you

1894
01:28:53,319 --> 01:28:55,119
rate and review and subscribe. Let us know what you

1895
01:28:55,159 --> 01:28:58,039
think of the Karma rankings. Give us categories that like, Look,

1896
01:28:58,279 --> 01:29:01,359
this is science. Is an ongoing process. You know, you hypothesize,

1897
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:03,880
you perform the experiments, You test and test and test.

1898
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,039
I saw commercial, I think for Nike maybe or some

1899
01:29:06,119 --> 01:29:08,840
of the Olympics that said that that's how I learned

1900
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:11,279
the scientific method. It was not a sophomore year of

1901
01:29:11,319 --> 01:29:14,479
high school. Join a discord links for that YouTube and

1902
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:17,000
podcast description. Tell your friends, Tell your enemies, shouts Frank

1903
01:29:17,039 --> 01:29:18,880
milockin apologies, Jared Allen