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Speaker 1: Imagine you're driving down the highway right, and there's one

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main rule everyone follows, stand your lane, follow the flow

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in space. That main rule, that universal traffic cop. That's gravity.

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It dictates everything exactly. It pulls things into orbit. It

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lets us predict where asteroids will go. It's, you know,

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the fundamental law of attraction. It defines what we call

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Caplearian mechanics. Everything Earth going around the Sun, the tiniest rock,

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it all follows gravity's.

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Speaker 2: Rules, right, Celestial dance all choreographed by gravity.

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Speaker 1: But what happens when something just ignores the choreography, blows

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right past the traffic cop, speeds up when it shouldn't,

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deviates completely from that carefully calculated path.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's when astronomers set up straight. That's when things

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get really interesting. Goes from routine physics to well, a

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genuine mystery. That kind of deviation, it's a massive red flag, and.

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Speaker 1: That is exactly what we are diving into today. We're

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looking at the latest and frankly, a pretty strange behavior

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of our current interstellar visitor three I at loss.

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Speaker 2: Ah, Yes, ATLS I've been keeping an eye on that one.

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Speaker 1: We've all been watching this thing. Maybe a comet, maybe

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something else since it popped up at first, the buzz

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was visual, right, it was getting noticeably brighter and interestingly

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bluer as it got closer to the Sun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that initial brightening was curious enough, But.

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Speaker 1: Now now we have solid, measurable evidence, evidence of propulsion.

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Speaker 2: It's moved beyond just how it looks, hasn't it. This

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isn't just oh it's flaring up a bit. This is

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actual physics saying wait a second.

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Speaker 1: Precisely, the object is accelerating faster than gravity alone says

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it should. Something else is giving it.

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Speaker 2: A push, some force acting on it beyond the standard

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gravitational tugs of the Sun and planets.

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Speaker 1: So our mission for this deep dive is to unpack

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what scientists are calling non gravitational acceleration. It sounds a

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bit dry, I know, but what it means is this

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object is being propelled by a force other than gravity,

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a force.

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Speaker 2: Not accounted for in the standard orbital cookbook.

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Speaker 1: We've gathered a bunch of sources looking at the raw data,

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the physics behind potential explanations, and actually some really weird

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bureaucratic roadblocks that are getting in the way of scientists

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trying to figure this out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you start talking about something deviating from those

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caplarian orbits, the paths laid out by Newton and Kepler,

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you're really poking at the foundations of how we expect

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things to move out there.

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Speaker 1: It forces the question, doesn't.

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Speaker 2: It It absolutely does. Is this some spectacular, maybe rare,

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but ultimately natural process or are we seeing something else,

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maybe something engineered.

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Speaker 1: And we need to manage expectations. Right off the bat

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headline scream non gravitational acceleration and boom, people jump straight

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to alien engines.

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Speaker 2: Happens every time.

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Speaker 1: We are definitely not there yet. As we'll explore, there

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are perfectly natural explanations that could account for this strong

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ones even.

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Speaker 2: But the amount of acceleration here is the kicker. It's

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significant enough that even the natural explanation requires something pretty

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dramatic happening.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and that analysis figuring out what kind of natural

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event could cause such a push leads directly to a

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crucial test, a make or break observation that's basically happening

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right now.

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Speaker 2: The timing is incredible. Really, the stakes are high because

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the data points towards a very clear prediction. These next

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few weeks as three actalysts comes back into view from

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behind the sun. Yeah, they're going to tell us we'll

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get definitive proof whether this thing is you know, a

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standard commet just having a really really big outburson.

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Speaker 1: Very dramatic comment, extremely.

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Speaker 2: Dramatic, Yeah, or if we have to start seriously considering

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other mechanisms forces that can push something without leaving the

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kind of massive exhaust trail we'd expect from a commet.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's dig into the actual data, because this isn't

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just a hunch, right, this is measured. We're not talking

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some slight drift that might be there. It's statistically solid.

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So for listeners trying to picture this, where did the

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key measurement come from? What exactly did they detect?

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Speaker 2: Right? The critical data, the confirmation of this acceleration came

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from the Ala.

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Speaker 1: Observatory ALMA right down in Chile, exactly, the.

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Speaker 2: ATA COMMA Large millimeter sub milimeter array. It's this incredibly

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powerful network of radio telescopes.

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Speaker 1: And why ALIMA what makes it suitable for this?

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Speaker 2: Well, ALIMA operates at millimeter and submillimeter wavelengths, and those

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wavelengths are perfect for seeing cold dust and gas. The

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kind of stuff you'd expect to find around a comet,

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even if it's faint or really far away.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha, so it can see the potential exhaust so.

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Speaker 2: To speak, pffisly. And the detection itself happened as three

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i adults was approaching perihelium.

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Speaker 1: Its closest point to the sun yep, which.

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Speaker 2: Is exactly when you'd expect solar heating to be strongest,

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driving off any volatile materials. It's primetime for comet activity if.

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Speaker 1: It is a comet, Okay, closer to the fire, more

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likely to boil. Makes sense. Now, the measurement itself. You

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hear the number and it sounds well tiny, four arcseconds.

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Speaker 2: Four arc seconds. Yeah, it sounds minuscule.

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Speaker 1: Why is four arcseconds such a big deal in astronomy?

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Can you like put that into perspective?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, It's all about angles and distance. So imagine the

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entire sky is three hundred and sixty degrees around. Each

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degree is split into sixty arc minutes, and each arc

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minute is split into sixty arcseconds.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so it's a tiny fraction.

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Speaker 2: Of a degree, a very tiny fraction. Four arc seconds

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is four to sixtieth of one sixtieth of a degree.

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It's nineteen hundredth of just one degree.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: To give you an analogy, it's like standing in say London,

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and being able to tell that a specific coin placed

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on top of the Eiffel Tower in Paris has shifted

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slightly to the side. That's the kind of angular precision

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we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Incredible. And this deviation was measured in right ascension.

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Speaker 2: Correct. Right ascension is basically the celestial version of longitude

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on Earth. It measures the east west position. So they

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calculated exactly where three II toys should have been based

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only on.

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Speaker 1: Gravity, the standard type clearion pass.

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Speaker 2: The standard path. Yes, and they found it wasn't there.

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It actually moved four arc seconds further east than predicted.

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It accelerated.

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Speaker 1: So even though the angle is tiny, because the object

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is so far.

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Speaker 2: Away, exactly that tiny angle translates into a huge physical distance,

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a massive offset from where gravity alone dictates it should be.

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There's no ambiguity. The data quality is high, the deviation

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is statistically significant. It's undeniable proof that some continuous non

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gravitational force is pushing this thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, undeniable push. If gravity isn't the sole driver, we

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need another mechanism and the most obvious natural candidate. The

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go to explanation for astronomers is the evaporation hypothesis, right.

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Speaker 2: That's the textbook explanation for commets behaving oddly. The idea

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is that the non gravitational push comes from recoil.

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Speaker 1: Recoil like a gunfiring sort.

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Speaker 2: Of yeah, but instead of gunpowder, it's chemical compounds, usually

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ices like water, carbon dioxide, maybe methane. On the object's surface,

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sunlight hits them, they heat up, turn directly into das supplement,

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and shoot off the surface.

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Speaker 1: Eah okay, like little jets firing off exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's basically nature's own crude rocket engine, and it's all

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about momentum conservation Newton's third law. For every action, there's

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an equal and opposite reaction.

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Speaker 1: Material shoots off one way.

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Speaker 2: And the object gets a little kick in the opposite direction.

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Think of a garden sprinkler spinning around. Water shoots out

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one way, the sprinkler head kicks back the other way.

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Same principle here, but with gas and dust blasting off

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three I at loose due to the sun's heat. For

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most commets, this effect is pretty gentle causes maybe a

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slight wobble in their orbit.

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Speaker 1: But for three I lows that four arcsecond deviation means

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the kick has to be substantial.

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Speaker 2: It's substantial and sustained. And the direction matters too. If

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the object is rotating and the outgassing isn't perfectly even,

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maybe one side is more active, like a leaky valve,

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that creates a much stronger, more consistent push than if

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stuff was just evaporating uniformly all over.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the size of the prush matters, and that

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leads us to this calculation about mass loss. The Jet

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Propulsion Lab JPL took that acceleration data and worked backwards

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to figure out how much material must have been injected

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to create that push, and the number they came up

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with is well, it's kind of mind blowing, it really is. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Based on those fundamental aso momentum, the physics says that

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to get that specific amount of acceleration three, it glass

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had to shed about one sixth of its total mass.

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Six let's run it up slightly. It's roughly twenty percent.

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Twenty percent of the object's entire initial mass had to

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basically boil off into space.

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Speaker 1: Twenty percent. That's not just like surface frost melting. That's

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a huge chunk of the thing itself.

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Speaker 2: It's a massive amount. We're talking about a significant fraction

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of its entire body being violently converted into gas and dust.

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Just to provide that observed thrust.

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Speaker 1: That's almost catastrophic transformation and that scale, that twenty percent number,

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it has big implications, doesn't it huge implications? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Because if it really did lose twenty percent of its

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mass through evaporation, that strongly supports the idea it is

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a comet, albeit an unusually active one.

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Speaker 1: Right. It validates the natural explanation.

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Speaker 2: It does, but it also gives us a potential way

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to analyze it. If that much material was lost, Studying

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the compass zition of that loss material could tell us

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what three IT class is made of. It gives us

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a chemical fingerprint.

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Speaker 1: So the mass loss calculation is key to the comet idea.

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You can't have that acceleration without that level of mass loss,

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assuming its natural outgassing.

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Speaker 2: Exactly the physics ties them together.

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Speaker 1: And hang on, let me push back on that a little.

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How sure are we about the initial mass of three itless?

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Isn't that just an estimate based on how bright it looks.

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Could the object be, I don't know, less dense than

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we think, making that twenty percent figure less dramatic.

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Speaker 2: That's a really sharp question. Yeah, you're right. Estimating the

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mass of a distant object is tricky. It depends heavily

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on assumptions about its size, its reflectivity, its albedo, and

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its density. We don't have perfect numbers for those.

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Speaker 1: So the twenty percent could be off.

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Speaker 2: The exact percentage might shift a bit if our initial

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mass estimate is wrong. But here's the thing, even if

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you tweak the assumptions, the required mass loss remains substantial

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to explain that measured acceleration. If it's denser, the total

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tonnage loss has to be even higher if it's less dense,

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lighter than losing twenty percent is arguably an even bigger

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structural impact. Plus, consider this, losing that much mass, especially unevenly,

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which you need for sustained thrust, that would almost certainly

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affect how the object spins. We'd expect it to be

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tumbling or rotating erratically. That's another observable consequence scientists will

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be looking for.

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Speaker 1: Are right, So even with uncertainties in the initial mass,

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the consequences of the required mass law of this giant

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cloud are pretty much unavoidable. If the comet explanation is correct.

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Speaker 2: Unavoidable. The physics demands a reaction, and that reaction should

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be visible, very visible.

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Speaker 1: Which brings us to this incredible moment. It's like the

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universe set up a perfect experiment for us.

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Speaker 2: It really is beautifully simple in a way. That massive

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mass loss, the twenty percent figure demanded by the acceleration,

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creates a clear binary prediction, a yes no test for

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what this object actually is.

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Speaker 1: It all hinges on this. If three ilis really is

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a natural commet that just vented a fifth of its.

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Speaker 2: Weight, then the unavoidable consequence must be a gigantic cloud

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of gas and dust surrounding it.

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Speaker 1: Now, let's pause on that. A gigantic cloud. We're not

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talking of faint haze. What does gigantic mean here in

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terms of actual material. You mentioned five billion tons earlier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the ballpark figure calculated based on the mass

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loss needed for the acceleration using fairly standard assumptions about

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how fast that evaporated gas and dust would expand outwards.

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Talking about five billion tons minimum.

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Speaker 1: Five billion tons, can you give us a sense of

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scale for that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, imagine the Great Pyramid of Giza, all the stone

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used to build it. Now multiply the total mass of

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that stone by about.

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Speaker 1: Six six great pyramids worth of material.

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Speaker 2: Turn into gas and dust now floating in space around

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this relatively small object nucleus. It's an almost inconceivable amount

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of stuff, a literal mountain range worth of ice and

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rock vaporized and ejected.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so a truly enormous cloud. And this leads

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us to the crunch time the post sun reveal.

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Speaker 2: Right in the past few weeks, the object has been

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on the far side of the Sun from our perspective,

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hidden in the glare, possible to observe directly from Earth.

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But it's it's moving, and the predictions were that it

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would emerge from behind the Sun, becoming visible again within

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a week or two of that initial report on its acceleration,

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which means right about now.

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Speaker 1: So the next observations are absolutely critical. They're looking for

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the direct evidence of that hypothesized mass loss.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, it boils down to two scenarios. Scenario A, the

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natural explanation holds true.

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Speaker 1: Three I tell us is just a really really active comment.

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Speaker 2: If the evaporation hypothesis is correct. If those five billion

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tons of material were indeed blasted off, then astronomers should

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see an incredibly bright, enormous cloud of gas surrounding the nucleus.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because it reflects sunlight.

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Speaker 2: Very bright, and because sunlight and the solar wind push

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on that gas and dust, it should be streaming away

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from the sun, forming a spectacular comentary tale, maybe even

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visible with good amateur tellus.

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Speaker 1: So if we see that massive cloud, that brilliant tail, then.

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Speaker 2: Case close pretty much. It confirms its natural It's a comet,

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and the non gravitational acceleration was simply the recoil from

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this massive outgassing event. The physics makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And what could we learn from seeing that cloud specifically

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beyond just confirming it's a comment?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that cloud would be a scientific gold mine. We

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could immediately turn our spectrographs onto.

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Speaker 1: It, analyzing the light exactly.

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Speaker 2: Analyzing the light that passes through or reflects off the

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gas and dust tells us precisely what elements and molecules

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are in there. Is it mostly water, ice, carbon dioxide,

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carbon monoxide, methane, more exotic stuff.

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Speaker 1: We could get its chemical recipe we.

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Speaker 2: Could get a detailed chemical fingerprint of an object that

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came from another star system. It would tell us about

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the stuff that was floating around in its home nebula

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billions of years ago, far away, invaluable data.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that scenario a confirmation, But then their scenario be

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the alternative.

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Speaker 2: Scenario B alternative propulsion. What happens if scientists point the

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world's best telescopes at three it less as it emerges,

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and there's no giant cloud, no super bright tail. What

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if they just see the nucleus, maybe with a little

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bit of faint fuzz, but nothing remotely close to the

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five billion con spectacle predicted.

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Speaker 1: If the push is there but the exhaust isn't, that's.

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Speaker 2: When the mystery deepens dramatically. The question becomes unavoidable. What

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propelled it? If you have the force, the four x

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second deviation proves the force, but you don't have the

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massive visible exhaust required by the comet explanation, then something

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else must be going on.

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Speaker 1: Something creating thrust without shedding enormous amounts of mass.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, which leads inevitably towards thinking about mechanisms that are more.

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Speaker 1: Efficient, which is where the artificial implication comes in, however, tentatively.

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Speaker 2: Well artificial is loaded, but it points towards non natural

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in the cometary sense. If the acceleration is real, but

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the expected cometary signature that huge cloud is missing, then

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the object doesn't behave like any natural comet. We understand

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the force must be generated differently, maybe through a highly

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efficient engine, though that's pure speculation, or perhaps more plausibly,

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based on recent history, maybe it's exploiting a natural force

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in a very efficient way, like solar radiation pressure acting

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on a very lightweight.

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Speaker 1: Structure, sunlight itself providing the push.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the implication isn't necessarily aliens, but rather that we

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have to consider propulsion mechanisms beyond simple heating and outgassing.

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It could be say a piece of derelict technology, maybe

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even ours lost long ago, or something else entirely, but

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the absence of the cloud forces that conversation.

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Speaker 1: And the amazing thing is we don't have to speculate

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for long. The universe is about to give us the answer.

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We look, we see the cloud, or we don't.

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Speaker 2: It's a remarkably clean test. We should have a much

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clearer picture very very soon.

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Speaker 1: This whole situation that this dilemma of acceleration without the

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expected exhaust It really throws us back to uhm ouah,

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doesn't it?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, Uma wu is the unavoidable comparison here. It

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was the first interstellar object we ever detected, back in

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twenty seventeen, and it completely scrambled our expectations.

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Speaker 1: Because it did the same thing right. It showed non

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gravitational acceleration.

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Speaker 2: It did it deviated from a purely gravity driven path.

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Astronomers were baffled because they expected it to just follow

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the rules of orbital mechanics.

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Speaker 1: But the critical thing about ummum Woah, the part that

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made it so deeply weird and sparked so much debate,

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was precisely the lack of that cometary cloud.

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Speaker 2: Exactly that intense observations were made specifically looking for gas

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or dust around Umumwah as it accelerated, and they found nothing.

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No kolma, no tail, nothing.

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Speaker 1: Which blew the standard common explanation out of.

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Speaker 2: The water completely. That absence of outgassing, combined with the

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definite acceleration, was the central mystery. It's why scenario B

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for three iilatus acceleration without a cloud feels so significant.

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We've literally seen this movie before or at least the

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first act.

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Speaker 1: And the lack of a cloud for Umamouah led to

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some pretty wide theories about what could be pushing it.

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Speaker 2: It certainly did, since you couldn't explain the push with

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ejected material. The leading alternative theory became solar radiation pressure.

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Speaker 1: Sunlight pressure photons hitting it and giving it a tiny nudge.

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Speaker 2: Tiny nudges that add up over time. But and this

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is the crucial part. For sunlight pressure to be strong

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enough to cause the acceleration, Umu war showed the object

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couldn't be a solid chunk of rock or ice, not

355
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because it would be too heavy, too dense. Sunlight pressure

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is a very weak force. To make it effective, the

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object needs a huge surface area compared to its mass.

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It needs to be very light, maybe thin, possibly hollow,

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or even shaped like a fail to catch the light effectively.

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Speaker 1: So Umormu's behavior hinted at a structure that was perhaps

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engineered or at least highly unusual, very light, maybe like

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a leaf or a sheet.

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Speaker 2: That was the implication that caused all the excitement and controversy.

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A structure optimized deliberately or accidentally to be pushed by light.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like science fiction, almost a solar sail drifting

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between the stars, until you look at another object found

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just three years later.

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Speaker 2: Ah twenty twenty so, Yes, that's the crucial grounding case

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study connects the dots beautifully. So three years after umah Moah,

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the very same telescope in Hawaii that discovered at Umuwa

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finds another weird.

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Speaker 1: Object, initially thought to be another asteroid.

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Speaker 2: Initially, yes, Catalog's twenty twenty so tracked closely because you know,

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after Umouwa, everyone was hyper aware of strange orbits.

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Speaker 1: But this one wasn't an interstellar visitor, was it? And

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we found out what it was made of?

377
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Speaker 2: We did this time, they managed to get really good

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spectroscopic data infrared analysis. Basically, they took its chemical fingerprint.

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Speaker 1: And not rock, not ice, Nope.

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Speaker 2: The spectrum was a dead ringer for stainless.

381
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Speaker 1: Steel, stainless steel in space.

382
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Speaker 2: Stainless steel, which confirmed beyond any doubt that twenty twenty

383
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:50,359
so was artificial. Specifically, it was identified as the Centaur

384
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upper stage rocket booster from NASA's Surveyor To mission, launched

385
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in nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so a piece of old human space junk orbiting

387
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the Sun for over fifty years, came back for a

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visit and got mistaken for an asteroid.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. It had been lost in solar orbit, and its

390
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path brought it back near Earth temporarily captured an interstellar

391
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,079
ghost of our own, making almost that's incredible.

392
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Speaker 1: So we have Umuhua, the interstellar mystery, showing acceleration without

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a cloud.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh.

395
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Speaker 1: And then we have twenty twenty so, a confirmed piece

396
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:21,839
of nineteen sixties human tech doing the exact same thing,

397
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acceleration without a cloud.

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Speaker 2: And that's the vital link. Twenty twenty so provided the

399
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definitive proof of concept for the Umamua theory. Why was

400
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the rocket booster accelerating because it was a hollow, thin

401
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,559
walled metal cylinder, very light for its size, large surface area, low.

402
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Speaker 1: Mass, perfect for catching sunlight.

403
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,599
Speaker 2: Perfect It was demonstrably being pushed by solar radiation pressure

404
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,400
enough to measurably alter its orbit, exactly like the hypothesis

405
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for umuh Wua, no outgasing needed, So.

406
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Speaker 1: Twenty twenty so proved it light hollow artificial objects can

407
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be propelled by sunlight alone, mimicking that non gravitational accel

408
00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:01,920
leration we see in mysterious objects.

409
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Speaker 2: It's not just theory, it's confirmed observation, a human artifact

410
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demonstrated the physics.

411
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Speaker 1: And that context is absolutely critical for three iilis.

412
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,839
Speaker 2: Now that's a precedent. If three eye lasts comes out

413
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,599
from behind the sun showing scenario B, the acceleration is there,

414
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,119
but that five billion ton cloud is not. Then umuua

415
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,160
in twenty twenty so tell us what to consider next.

416
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Speaker 1: The absence of the cloud becomes the key signal.

417
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,640
Speaker 2: It immediately opens the door to thinking about light weight

418
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,359
structures and solar radiation pressure. Again, it forces us to

419
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,400
consider origins beyond natural comets, whether that's something truly alien

420
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:37,200
or maybe just another piece of misidentified debris, perhaps much older,

421
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perhaps not even ours, being pushed by light.

422
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Speaker 1: The lesson from twenty twenty so is stark, isn't it.

423
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Sometimes the explanation for weird behavior isn't exotic new physics.

424
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Sometimes it's just efficient engineering, even if it's accidental, like

425
00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:53,559
an empty fuel tank tumbling through space.

426
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Speaker 2: Okay, so we have this potential cosmic revelation unfolding an object,

427
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possibly shedding mountains of ice, or maybe being pushed by sunlight,

428
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huge questions. But now we pivot from the sublime to

429
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,200
the slightly ridiculous getting the actual data.

430
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Speaker 1: Ah, yes, the less glamorous side of science, the paperwork

431
00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:12,440
in politics.

432
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 2: Because even while we're waiting for these crucial posts on observations,

433
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,599
there's other data images that already exist, taked much earlier,

434
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,519
that could give us vital clues right now. It's incredibly

435
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:26,480
frustrating for the scientists involved. There's a fantastic camera called

436
00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:31,720
high Rise, the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment onboard NASA's

437
00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:33,759
Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.

438
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Speaker 1: MRO orbiting Mars.

439
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, great camera, fantastic camera, and MRO actually took images

440
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,920
of three iyaut lists when the object made its closest

441
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,200
approach to Mars. That was back on October second and third,

442
00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:49,319
well over a month before this non gravitational acceleration report

443
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came out.

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Speaker 1: And because MRO is relatively close to three ayoutlas then

445
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compared to Earth.

446
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Speaker 2: The potential resolution is fantastic. Those high Rise images could

447
00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:01,359
potentially show us fine details the objects, maybe how it's rotating,

448
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or crucially, if there was any sign of early localized

449
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outgassing starting back then, any hint of that predicted cloud

450
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beginning to form.

451
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Speaker 1: So that data could already tell us if the comment

452
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,640
hypothesis looks likely well before the main show happens after

453
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it passes the Sun.

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Speaker 2: It could give us a massive head start. Yes, but

455
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,240
here's the catch. The data exists, it's stored on a

456
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:24,720
server related to a spacecraft orbiting Mars managed by NASA,

457
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:26,559
but scientists can't access it.

458
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Speaker 1: Why not? What's the hold up?

459
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Speaker 2: The process usually involves the principal investigator the PI of

460
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the camera, releasing the data. In this case, multiple requests

461
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,519
were apparently made to the high rise PI for these

462
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specific images of three iyallos, and there was no.

463
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Speaker 1: Response, just silence for data on a unique interstellar object

464
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showing weird behavior.

465
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Speaker 2: That's the report. Now. The official reason cited later for

466
00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:53,160
the lack of response and general delays in getting data

467
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,279
out was the government shut down happening around that time.

468
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Speaker 1: Bureaucratic gridlockh okay, shutdowns cause chaos, fair enough, but for

469
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,160
time sensitive science like this, studying an object that's literally

470
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just passing through.

471
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: It's incredibly damaging. You have this unique visitor, maybe a

472
00:23:09,319 --> 00:23:13,359
once in a generation opportunity, exhibiting fascinating physics and critical

473
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,480
data gets stuck in administrative limbo.

474
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: The argument against withholding it seems obvious scientists need that

475
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,440
information now to plan their follow up observations. Telescope time

476
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,039
is expensive, it's competitive. You need to know what you're

477
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:26,440
looking for precisely.

478
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: It's about strategy. If those high rise images showed, to say,

479
00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:35,480
clear signs of early outgassing back in October, astronomers worldwide

480
00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:38,359
would be scrambling to get spectrographs ready now for when

481
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,880
it emerges. If the images showed a bare nucleus, maybe

482
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,519
they'd prioritize different instruments.

483
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: Knowing what it looked like near Mars informs how you

484
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,279
look at it near Earth.

485
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, delaying that raw data release hampers the entire global

486
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,799
scientific effort. Science works best with rapid data sharing and collaboration,

487
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,799
especially for transiit events like this.

488
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: And this whole data access issue then led to a

489
00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:06,160
really let's call it a moment of interesting contrasts involving

490
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:08,319
Congress and Kim Kardashian.

491
00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:11,079
Speaker 2: Yes, it got a bit surreal. The data delay was

492
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,359
causing enough concern that Representative Anna Paulina Luna got involved.

493
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,119
She sent a formal letter to NASA to the acting

494
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,839
NASA administrator at the time, Sean Duffy. The letter was

495
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,880
sent on October thirty. First a formal inquiry from a

496
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,240
member of Congress about releasing scientific data pertinent to understanding

497
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:27,480
this interstellar object.

498
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: Okay, standard procedure for congressional oversight. What was the response

499
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,720
to the congresswoman's letter.

500
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: According to reports, nothing, No formal response received to the

501
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,440
official letter.

502
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,079
Speaker 1: Radio silence from the acting administrator to Congress.

503
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,599
Speaker 2: Okay. Then, but then around the same time, the celebrity

504
00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:48,799
Kim Kardashian tweeted a very informal tweet basically asking, uh,

505
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,799
what is the tea about three Atlas? You know, asking

506
00:24:51,839 --> 00:24:53,960
for the gossip, the inside scoop on this object.

507
00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: What is a tea?

508
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:55,759
Speaker 2: Right? Okay?

509
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: And the same acting NASA Administrator, Sean Duffy, who apparent

510
00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:03,160
hadn't responded to the formal congressional letter about data release,

511
00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:07,799
responded almost immediately to Kim Kardashian's tweet publicly on Twitter.

512
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, So engage instantly with a celebrity's casual question,

513
00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:15,319
but no response to a formal request from Congress about

514
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:16,200
scientific data.

515
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,599
Speaker 1: That's how it played out publicly. It raises well some

516
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,400
pointed questions about priorities, doesn't it?

517
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,599
Speaker 2: It certainly does look Public engagement is vital for science.

518
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,759
Getting high profile people interested is fantastic, build support, gets funding,

519
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,160
inspires people. We absolutely want.

520
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: That, totally agree. Public's excitement is crucial. But when you

521
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,160
contrast the instant response to a pop culture inquiry with

522
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,640
the silence on a formal request for data needed for

523
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,960
actual scientific research, especially time sensitive research, it does look

524
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:44,559
a bit odd.

525
00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:49,039
Speaker 2: It creates attention. The administrator's primary role, you'd think, is

526
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:52,960
facilitating the science and the agency's mission, which includes responding

527
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,200
to oversight and enabling research. Engaging the public is important,

528
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,240
but should it supersede the core operational needs, especially when

529
00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:02,440
data is bottlenecked.

530
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:06,279
Speaker 1: It suggests maybe the allure of quick, high visibility social

531
00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:10,799
media engagement might sometimes overshadow the slower, less flashy, but

532
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,119
fundamentally necessary processes of scientific administration and communication.

533
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: Perhaps it highlights the difference between chasing immediate public buzz

534
00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:22,839
and ensuring the steady progress of research. We need both ideally,

535
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,720
but when critical data for a unique event gets delayed

536
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,640
and the reason seems tied up in bureaucracy or possibly

537
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,720
skewed pr priorities. It becomes a real impediment, a.

538
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: Tangible obstacle to discovery, created right here on Earth exactly.

539
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: And it just underscores the need for scientists and Congress

540
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,759
to keep pushing for transparency and timely data release, especially

541
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:45,480
for these fleeting opportunities like three I atleasts before it

542
00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:47,000
zooms off and we lose our chance.

543
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: It really is a drama on two levels, isn't it.

544
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:52,839
The cosmic one out there with gravity and mysterious forces,

545
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,079
and the very human one down here with bureaucracy and

546
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,720
celebrity tweets, hashtag outro approx. Three time four minutes.

547
00:27:01,079 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: So wrapping up this deep dive, we've really landed on

548
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,559
a fascinating point with three iad lists. It encapsulates so

549
00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:10,960
much of the excitement and mystery in studying interstellar objects.

550
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:13,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, the core of it is this stark scientific choice

551
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,799
presented by the data itself. First, you have that undeniable

552
00:27:16,839 --> 00:27:20,039
non gravitational acceleration, that four our second nudge. It's small,

553
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,920
but it's real, and it proves something as pushing it, right.

554
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: A statistically solid deviation from pure gravity, and that push

555
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,880
if we assume it's this standard comet mechanism, outgassing requires

556
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,000
an absolutely enormous physical event.

557
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,839
Speaker 1: The massive mass loss that calculation suggesting maybe twenty percent

558
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:39,519
of the object's entire body had to boil off into space,

559
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:42,279
which leads directly to the big prediction.

560
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:46,279
Speaker 2: The five billion ton cloud. If it's a comet doing this,

561
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,799
it must be surrounded by a truly gigantic, incredibly bright

562
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,240
cloud of gas and dust right now as it emerges

563
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,759
from behind the sun, and that's.

564
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,039
Speaker 1: The beauty of it. We get to test this prediction

565
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,880
almost immediately. The observation happening now or in the coming

566
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,559
days and weeks are critical.

567
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: It's a clear fork in the road. Scenario A, we

568
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,480
see the huge cloud and brilliant tail, confirmation it's a

569
00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:14,200
hyperactive comet. A natural phenomenon will be the spectacular one

570
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:15,640
we learn about its composition.

571
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: Or Scenario B, the cloud isn't there. The acceleration is confirmed,

572
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,839
but the massive exhaust predicted by the comet model is missing, and.

573
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: If that happens, we're back in Wumamua territory. We have

574
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:30,279
to seriously consider alternative propulsion, more efficient mechanisms, maybe solar

575
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,880
radiation pressure acting on a light, perhaps engineered structure.

576
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: Like twenty twenty. So the rocket booster proved as possible exactly.

577
00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: So either way, whether it confirms a dramatic commt hypothesis

578
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,440
or points towards something even stranger, we're poised to learn

579
00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:47,880
something fundamental about this visitor's nature very soon. The possibilities

580
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:48,880
have been narrowed right down.

581
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:51,319
Speaker 1: We'll find out if the physics involved is messy and

582
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,279
volatile like a comet, or clean and efficient, like something

583
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,160
designed to catch the light precisely. And you know, as

584
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,039
we finish, I keep coming back to twenty twenty. So

585
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,960
that piece of nineteen sixty six stainless steel, our own

586
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,599
space junk. Mm hmm, it was hollow light, got pushed

587
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:09,319
around by sunlight and fooled us into thinking it might

588
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:12,319
be an asteroid For a while. It showed that mundane

589
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:17,599
human made objects can mimic these exotic non gravitational accelerations

590
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,319
just because of their shade and low density.

591
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: The sobering reminder, isn't it a ply Ocham's razor? But

592
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,920
also remember our own capacity to create things that behave

593
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,160
unexpectedly out there.

594
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: So here's the final thought to leave everyone with. If

595
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,480
a relatively primitive piece of nineteen sixties tech. A simple

596
00:29:33,519 --> 00:29:36,799
hollow cylinder can drift through space for decades, get pushed

597
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:39,960
by sunlight, and temporarily confuse us. Yeah, what else is

598
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,559
out there? How many other objects that we track that

599
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:45,799
we assume are just rocks or dormant commets might actually

600
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,519
be something else? Old probes, bits of debris, rs or

601
00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:53,440
maybe not ours silently catching the solar wind, exhibiting tiny

602
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,200
accelerations we haven't noticed or haven't been able to measure yet.

603
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:59,759
Speaker 2: How many apparent asteroids are actually just very light, maybe

604
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:02,920
hot hollo structures being subtly steered by sunlight across the

605
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,039
millennia exactly?

606
00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: If our own forgotten trash can masquerade like this, what

607
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,440
about older, more advanced, or just differently designed artifacts from elsewhere?

608
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,119
Could they be hiding in plain sight, dismissed as natural

609
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,559
until something like a four or second deviation forces us

610
00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:20,400
to look closer.

611
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:22,799
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder about the true inventory of the

612
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,160
Solar system and what might be passing through three I

613
00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:28,519
allis whatever it turns out to be? Really sharpens that

614
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:33,039
question what's truly natural and what's just efficient design? Floating

615
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:33,599
through the void?

616
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,279
Speaker 1: A question will be pondering will definitely keep you updated

617
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:38,519
on what the telescope see in the coming weeks. Thanks

618
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:39,839
for joining us for the steep dive