WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>I am very much in Amsterdam, so like we're getting ready.

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<v Speaker 1>I need to get through this today so I can

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<v Speaker 1>consume my weight in weed brownie and wander over to

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<v Speaker 1>this pub.

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<v Speaker 2>That I quite like so nice.

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<v Speaker 1>I like to sit on this pub by this one

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<v Speaker 1>canal and like watch people go buy on bikes. We

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<v Speaker 1>got here and we went immediately to this particular pub ILike,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was a guy with this cute little dog

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<v Speaker 1>who didn't want to leave the pub, and then he

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<v Speaker 1>eventually got the dog to come and then immediately put

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<v Speaker 1>it in a basket on his bicycle. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I fucking love Amsterdam, bro, Like hell yeah, he just

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<v Speaker 1>like fully biking off with that little guy in the front.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, it's awesome culture, man, it's so good.

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<v Speaker 2>Have you ever seen anyone fall in the canal? I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure it's only tourist if you have, but never.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never seen anyone fall in the canal, although I

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<v Speaker 1>will say that so it's really hot. It's like in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineties, and there are lots of young people swimming

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<v Speaker 1>in the canals, and I was like, oh shit, is

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<v Speaker 1>it like clean enough to do that? And like they

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<v Speaker 1>uh like they have like swimming pontoons and stuff, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, I bet I guess they cleaned them

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<v Speaker 1>up or something like. You know in London they're always

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<v Speaker 1>like stay the funk out of the canal. You will

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<v Speaker 1>get chlamydia.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, but that's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. Yeah, so who knows. Man, that's all sorts

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<v Speaker 1>of things happening on the continent, right, So.

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<v Speaker 2>That's awesome that yeah, stuff like that is so cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of got what yeah, oh yeah, like, oh sorry

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<v Speaker 1>the internet. Listen everyone, I'm on Hotel Wi Fi. So

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<v Speaker 1>we're doing our best out here, but you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>it might be a bit scattered. But yeah, as I

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<v Speaker 1>texted you yesterday, I did get talked down to by

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<v Speaker 1>the lady in the weed shop and I bought what

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<v Speaker 1>I bought my annible yesterday and I was like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, listen, you know, I'm a grown up, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, I'm going to get I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna get this weed brownie because I just like

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<v Speaker 1>prefer the edibles in my old old age. And also,

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<v Speaker 1>blessed Justin doesn't know how to inhale weed, so yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you're right there. He's like, I'm right here, you know

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<v Speaker 1>how to do it Courtney.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Never good at smoking.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, So anyway, class was explaining to.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, apparently a young woman in the class he was

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<v Speaker 1>teaching today explained to him he needs to learn how

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<v Speaker 1>to inhale weed, which is true. But listen, we got

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<v Speaker 1>this brownie. We got this brownie one way or another,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was like, well, do you smoke weed? And

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, man like, madam, like you I'm clearly old,

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<v Speaker 1>right you think that. I'm like, I can show it

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<v Speaker 1>up in here. Like in the first place, the bouncer

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<v Speaker 1>lad he'd been id people in front of us, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh shit, do we need ID? And

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<v Speaker 1>then so he's like, you're clearly not young. You don't

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<v Speaker 1>need to show the ID. And I was like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's true, but also like fuck you a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, and I go when I go, I just like,

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<v Speaker 1>do you even smoke weed? I'm like, it's since you've

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<v Speaker 1>were not even a glint in your father's eye, ma'am.

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<v Speaker 1>And then like it was like so she's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>well what do you And I was like, look, I

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<v Speaker 1>usually do edibles and she's like what do you do?

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<v Speaker 1>When I was like, usually like ten milligrams, and she's like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so like cut this into quarters. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to cut it into eighths. Okay, Like I understand,

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<v Speaker 1>to be clear, I understand not to eat this whole thing. Like,

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<v Speaker 1>but I suppose they probably do have a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>tourists who just go crazy eat a brownie, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I also don't understand that it like tourists,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean don't and and I don't mean it's contestining,

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<v Speaker 2>but like if you if you don't, if you're not

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<v Speaker 2>used to the weed that you get in a place

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<v Speaker 2>where it has been legalized for a long time and

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<v Speaker 2>it is a cultural or counter cultural thing there, like uh, California, Colorado, Washington, Alaska,

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<v Speaker 2>Amster Day, you know, like and the various places all

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<v Speaker 2>over that that have that. It like the weed is stronger,

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<v Speaker 2>it's higher quality, it is you know, it's just it's

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<v Speaker 2>a it's it's a bit different. And and the edibles

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<v Speaker 2>like they hit a lot more evenly typically when you

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<v Speaker 2>have places like that, because even people who even doing

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<v Speaker 2>edibles like like how they make them in like uh

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<v Speaker 2>like uh big growhouses and like factories and stuff. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>like you could still get uneven because that's just how

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<v Speaker 2>you know, fluid mixtures work. Sometimes they yeah, and uh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's really strong, so like, yeah, I'm sure they're

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<v Speaker 2>probably just checking. However, it is also just going into

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<v Speaker 2>a dispensary is like mortifyingly embarrassing on all levels. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm and I'm a person who is like just like

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<v Speaker 2>go all in for whatever you like or whatever. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm fine, you know, I talk about weed. It's great.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's cool if people want to use it.

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<v Speaker 2>If they don't, that's also cool. I don't really give

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<v Speaker 2>a shit. But like going in there, it just it's

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<v Speaker 2>it feels like the lamest thing in the world, even

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<v Speaker 2>if you know them, even if you go in there

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, because you're just like like in Futurama

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<v Speaker 2>when Zoidberg gets money and he's like one art please,

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<v Speaker 2>and you go in and you're like, one marijuana please,

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<v Speaker 2>good sir. Like you're wearing like a shirt that's like

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<v Speaker 2>a like a big Bride orange shirt that says like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a fucking tourist. I just fell off the turn

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<v Speaker 2>up truck.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh completely, And it's like and obviously I'm in you know,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the touristy areas because that's like here, I

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<v Speaker 1>know where to go, and like, yeah, here, did I

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<v Speaker 1>show you, I'll show you, I'll show you. Like the box,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like they've got it's like very gimmicky. So last

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<v Speaker 1>time last year, they got my ass when I came

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<v Speaker 1>because they have like this very fancy red velvet cake

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<v Speaker 1>and it comes in a similar box with So I

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<v Speaker 1>showed you the box, but like when you open it up,

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<v Speaker 1>look it's like, uh all gold inside.

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<v Speaker 2>See oh oh you got the gold foil.

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<v Speaker 1>The box for the red velvet cake like folds out

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<v Speaker 1>like a flower, and like they got my ass with that.

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<v Speaker 1>So I got this like red velvet cake, and I

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<v Speaker 1>gotta tell you it was the nastiest fucking thing that

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<v Speaker 1>I go.

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<v Speaker 2>Say. Red velvet cake is hard. It is hard to

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<v Speaker 2>get right in the first place. And uh throwing throwing

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<v Speaker 2>such a pungent aroma slash specific taste into that yow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's the reason why the Brownie real rules supreme.

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<v Speaker 2>In the gummy Like, oh look I've got this fruit gummy. Okay, cool,

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<v Speaker 2>even dummies.

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<v Speaker 1>Here they don't do gummies really, yeah, which it was

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting. I don't know if they like have rules

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<v Speaker 1>about it or whatever, because I went in last year

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<v Speaker 1>and I was fully giving it the like hello, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>from Washington, you know. I like I prefer more sativa forward,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And I'm like I'm like fucking giving it

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<v Speaker 1>this one. And they're like, look, it's an indigo sativa

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<v Speaker 1>hybrid and we don't have dummies and I was like

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<v Speaker 1>you don't and they're like, no, we only have red

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<v Speaker 1>velvet cake or brownies. And I was like like so,

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm in They're like acting like I know what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on. I have no idea what the toutch are

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<v Speaker 1>up to, Like I only know the Seattle dispensary. Like

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<v Speaker 1>so I'm just like, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Never mind that is.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, my ass is always like going to like

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<v Speaker 1>Shaun Camp cannabis when I'm home. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>They oh man, like they're they're like they have their laws,

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<v Speaker 2>like you have to have one good kind of weed

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<v Speaker 2>and one terrible kind of weed to throw people.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you gotta suffer a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, it's it's the characteristic on the syntax.

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<v Speaker 1>To be given words to like adjusting weed a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of indiica. I would argue, no, but like, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe they're like, hopefully you'll just go fucking non verbal

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<v Speaker 1>and stay in one place. But yeah, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who knows. I don't know. The indiicositiva thing is

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<v Speaker 2>the Indico city of a hybrid thing is the three

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<v Speaker 2>is the three different kinds of Duff beer? Uh the

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<v Speaker 2>same tube? All right, man, yep, totally yeah, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Guys that lady Duff.

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<v Speaker 2>You know it's Uh, I love this market. Like people

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<v Speaker 2>ask me, I'm like, I'm cool. Whatever you want, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, whatever, whatever it is, and I like I

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes sometimes be like, oh, you don't have a favorite,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm like I can't really tell a difference, and

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<v Speaker 2>they kind of look at it and I'm like, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>getting into all this with people. It's not scientifically proven.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not it's fully probably psychosomatic.

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<v Speaker 1>It's fully like weed somaliaism. It's just like them being like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that this is what it is. And I

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<v Speaker 1>mean I believe in the weed, which they're doing good work.

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<v Speaker 2>Look if that if that works on you, like if

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<v Speaker 2>you're the type of person who's like, oh, when I

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<v Speaker 2>spoke Indica, I do feel this way knock yourself out.

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<v Speaker 1>Man.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't like your brain and your body chemistry. That's that's

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<v Speaker 2>your thing. I'm just saying scientifically, it is what it is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Like, yeah, but not not here to to

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<v Speaker 2>fuck with anyone's thing, all right.

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<v Speaker 3>Questions yeah, questions, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, Welcome back to We're Not So Different, a podcast

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<v Speaker 2>about how I read oh god, read velvet cake like

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<v Speaker 2>red velvet cake.

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<v Speaker 1>We I'm telling you it was nilsd.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, well about how that's always been gross. Hey folks,

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<v Speaker 2>we are doing some mail and we're back. We're back

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<v Speaker 2>with another monthly installment of the patron mail Bag. As

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we turn at least one episode a month

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<v Speaker 2>into a long form advertisement for our Patreon by answering

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<v Speaker 2>questions submitted by our patrons. Remember, if this interests you

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<v Speaker 2>or you want to help the show by throwing us

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<v Speaker 2>so for just five dollars a month at patreon dot

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<v Speaker 2>good vibes from the knowledge that your money keeps the

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<v Speaker 2>show going, you also get two bonus episodes a month,

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<v Speaker 2>add free listening to all regular episodes and access to

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<v Speaker 2>our discord chat. We normally answer these questions at the

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<v Speaker 2>start of most episodes, but have so many that we

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<v Speaker 2>need to do these mail bags, and so here we

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<v Speaker 2>are this time we talk about what happens if you

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<v Speaker 2>are shipwrecked in the Middle Ages, depictions of Jesus, Medieval crocs,

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<v Speaker 2>the shoes, not the giant creatures, though they were around

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<v Speaker 2>in some places. Slaves at the end of empire, noble

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<v Speaker 2>views of chivalry getting cut off at the medieval pub

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<v Speaker 2>the worst name for a child I've ever heard, at

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<v Speaker 2>least the medieval and more enjoy verse from pro overflow.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the painting slash treating wood situation? Are they painting

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<v Speaker 2>houses and shed to protect them from the elements using

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<v Speaker 2>pitch or creasido barns, treating wood with anything covered in

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<v Speaker 2>mud or is it just frequently replaced.

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<v Speaker 1>They're usually not building with that much wood, not all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. They're often a building with wattle and daub

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<v Speaker 1>and wood, so it's often kind of like you have

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<v Speaker 1>beams and that sort of a thing and then wattle

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<v Speaker 1>and daub in between, so you know, kind of what

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<v Speaker 1>we would call a Tudor style building. They've got a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of that going on in places however, where you

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<v Speaker 1>do have more trees. So for example, in like Scandinavia,

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<v Speaker 1>Bohemian places like that, you have wooden buildings that are

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<v Speaker 1>often treated with like pitch and resin and things like that. Lacquer, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>lacquer in order to kind of like keep it a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit better. But it's one of these things where

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<v Speaker 1>they kind of like remake their buildings a lot. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so you know, because things burn down and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>stuff moves around, you want to enhance things, and they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have the same interest in keeping old buildings as

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<v Speaker 1>we do now. And so as a result, like things

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<v Speaker 1>turn over a lot, and if you eventually get any money,

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<v Speaker 1>you will build in stone like in cities and things

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<v Speaker 1>like that. But yeah, it's a lot more waterle and daub.

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<v Speaker 1>Occasionally things are painted, but the usually it's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like the equivalent of like whitewash, although oftentimes a big

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<v Speaker 1>way that is augmented is you do put in colors.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, if you've got anything lying around, you

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<v Speaker 1>make color. One thing is true that they will do,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the you know, the color aux blood. It's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because you put blood in with the whitewash and you

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<v Speaker 1>get that pink color, so like fun, that's that's fun.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, you might, you might do different colors in

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<v Speaker 1>different places because you know, they never met an opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to make something bright that they didn't like, So you

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<v Speaker 1>do have a lot of painting that goes on, for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Most of the stuff you read in histories about

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<v Speaker 2>wood is treating it with lacquer, pitch or creosote for

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<v Speaker 2>protection and waterproofing, especially with ships that is like they

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<v Speaker 2>are they are doing so much pitch and tar type stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>just like to to try and seal all of those

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<v Speaker 2>little cranny nooks and everything in there, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Which also helps you realize why things catch on fire

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<v Speaker 1>so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, if you have to, if you have to

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<v Speaker 2>treat everything with creosote and pitch, both of those things.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a reason that that pitch is used in battle

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<v Speaker 2>and it's lit on fire because it's a it's an accelerant.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah almost, it was an upper like it was a drug.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a drug. No no, no, no, no, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>want none of this fire shit.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll get it back here. Blasted off that Kreus out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, blasted per overflow, thank you for the question. Next

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<v Speaker 2>week got one from Katie who says, this week my

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<v Speaker 2>news algorithm to be an article from The Guardian about

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<v Speaker 2>quote wife schools end quote hosted by Christian women preaching

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<v Speaker 2>submissiveness to one's husband as the path to bliss yuck.

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<v Speaker 2>Any who. The article talked about this being out of

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<v Speaker 2>line with what is actually happening in organized religion right now,

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<v Speaker 2>which they state is that young women are leaving religious

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<v Speaker 2>institutions while young men are diving in. Here's the key

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<v Speaker 2>quote quote, Women, especially those eighteen to twenty nine prime

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<v Speaker 2>marrying age, are fleeing organized religion due in large part

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<v Speaker 2>to its often regressive views on gender roles. Experts say. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 2>their male counterparts, brothers, friends, husbands seemed to be in

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<v Speaker 2>the midst of a religious reawakening. This made me think

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<v Speaker 2>about the various changes in religiosity and religious movements in

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<v Speaker 2>the medieval era in Europe and wonder if there were

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<v Speaker 2>in general similar gender differences in opinion actions slash actions

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<v Speaker 2>about the changes that were happening in their society. Where

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<v Speaker 2>their women in the media val era rolling their eyes

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<v Speaker 2>at men waxing on about how great the crusade was

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<v Speaker 2>going to be were their hordes of angry men to

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<v Speaker 2>crying religious movements or societal changes driven by women. I

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<v Speaker 2>can just imagine a woman being man'splained to about the

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<v Speaker 2>Holy Land and how great a crusade was going to be,

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<v Speaker 2>and herresponding with, you should definitely do that. Yep, go

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<v Speaker 2>for it. You need help packing In summary? Are they

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<v Speaker 2>examples of the medieval era where women and men respond

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<v Speaker 2>to religious changes in opposite ways?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, obviously we get to hear from women a lot less,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's part of your first issue with this. And

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<v Speaker 1>then when we do hear from women about this, it's

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<v Speaker 1>like they have to be so fucking exceptional, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>it's like it's people like Hildegard, right, and Hildegard we

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<v Speaker 1>do hear from about this where she's like, yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>all bullshit, right. And it's quite interesting because you can't

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<v Speaker 1>call these women feminist because they don't think men and

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<v Speaker 1>women are equal, to be clear, but they just don't

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<v Speaker 1>think that women are evils. Yeah, yeah, they're they're like, listen, maybe,

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<v Speaker 1>actually it's good that women are different from men. Like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just spitballing here, Like if if God created men

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<v Speaker 1>and women, then it can't be that bad, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>why would he make something that he thought sucked it?

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<v Speaker 1>Does it really stand to reason? And indeed, like Christina

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<v Speaker 1>Pizzan writes about this at the beginning of the City

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<v Speaker 1>of Ladies, where she's like, you know, yeah, I've grown

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<v Speaker 1>up my whole life, I'm hearing that women fucking suck

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<v Speaker 1>and are the world and the most sinful, and that

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<v Speaker 1>they're constantly like seducing men. But it's weird because I've

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00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:07.839
<v Speaker 1>never actually seen that happen, Like I've never seen it

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<v Speaker 1>to be true. And so that's a quite interesting thing

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<v Speaker 1>because she's not even saying that, like she didn't believe it.

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<v Speaker 1>She's just like, it's weird because like that doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>to bear out with the reality. And we definitely do

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<v Speaker 1>see you know, we see men talking about women constantly,

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<v Speaker 1>like it just happens all of the time. But I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>for the most part, no, like people kind of really

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<v Speaker 1>believe in the concept of crusading. They really seem to

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<v Speaker 1>like it. You know, eventually it stops having anything to

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<v Speaker 1>do with, you know, ordinary people. I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you most women are pretty happy to see their husband's

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<v Speaker 1>fuck off if they are of the you know, echelon

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<v Speaker 1>where they can go out to war, because it's like, okay, yeah, cool,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're gonna go over there, then like if I don't,

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<v Speaker 1>if I choose not to go, which some go with

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<v Speaker 1>and some don't, then that's cool because I'm just like

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<v Speaker 1>ruling the house while you're gone, and I'm not going

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<v Speaker 1>to get knocked up. So yeah, that's nice, right, But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we do have to understand that one of

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<v Speaker 1>the differences between religion and in religion now is that

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<v Speaker 1>people then believed it right, whereas now there is a

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<v Speaker 1>possibility of not believing in Christianity or indeed just rejecting

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00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.640
<v Speaker 1>organized religion. You know, there's there's no positible way of

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<v Speaker 1>doing that in the Middle Ages. So even if you

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<v Speaker 1>did maybe think it there, most women aren't going to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to have a way to write it down.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's not going to get back to us. And

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<v Speaker 1>so we just kind of have to read between the lines.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it probable that these things happened, Sure, it's just

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<v Speaker 1>that we don't have a way of knowing, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>just how source survival works.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I think reading between the lines is

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<v Speaker 2>about the best you can get. Other than I mean there,

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<v Speaker 2>what's that that book or it's a anonymous treatise about how.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you're bang on here, because the Halli medved

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<v Speaker 1>or a letter on virginity, does go into this, but

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<v Speaker 1>from the opposite perspective. So it's like it's religious women

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<v Speaker 1>saying don't get married because being married fucking sucks, and

348
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<v Speaker 1>they're like, pregnancy sucks, childbirth sucks, being married sucks because

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<v Speaker 1>your husband is almost certainly going to be a stupid

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<v Speaker 1>piece of shit. He's not going to help you around

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<v Speaker 1>the house, so you're going to have all the work.

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<v Speaker 1>Plus you're going to have a kid, and it's awful

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<v Speaker 1>and you basically are going to regret it, right, Like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>being completely sublimated to the wishes of a man and

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<v Speaker 1>also having kids is really hard. You know, they might die,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll be heartbroken, it'll be awful. So that's like the

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<v Speaker 1>same thing from an opposite perspective, where religion there acts

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<v Speaker 1>as a way to shield women from having to do

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00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:01.480
<v Speaker 1>this horrible fucking thing and some chut. Right. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>interesting because now religion is being used as the key

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<v Speaker 1>to making women subservient to men, whereas at the time

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<v Speaker 1>it was like religion is the thing that could free

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<v Speaker 1>you from this possibility.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And I think that is probably the best

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to be able to get from this. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I know that's sometimes not what people really

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<v Speaker 2>want to hear because they want like a definitive answer.

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<v Speaker 2>But I like, I've been re listening to friend and

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<v Speaker 2>former guests of the show evert Rummage's Age of Napoleon podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>just re listening to everything, and it's great. But one

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<v Speaker 2>thing I really am struck by is how like by

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<v Speaker 2>this time, by that sorry, by that time in the

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<v Speaker 2>early eighteen hundreds, you have memoirs from not just the wealthy,

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<v Speaker 2>not just the notables of society, not not just you

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<v Speaker 2>know whoever, you have it from like uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>regular regular people who are like you know, they're like

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<v Speaker 2>a barber or a uh they play the clarinet in

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<v Speaker 2>like one of one of the Napoleonic bands or army

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<v Speaker 2>bands or something like that, and you just have all

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<v Speaker 2>of them. I mean there there are several dozen memoirs

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<v Speaker 2>written by former sex workers and and and women who

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<v Speaker 2>were just on like uh you know who just who

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<v Speaker 2>were in the baggage trains of these armies, and we

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<v Speaker 2>have nothing like that because we didn't, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>even if they did have paper, it would be very

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<v Speaker 2>difficult for it to survive to us. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you like all of the stuff we talk about with

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<v Speaker 2>source survival and it's just like, yeah, they you don't

389
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<v Speaker 2>get it. But when you do find a source, I

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<v Speaker 2>think you can extrapolate feelings like that out of it.

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<v Speaker 2>You just have to remember to put them in the

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<v Speaker 2>context of medieval thought, because, as owners said, they were

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<v Speaker 2>not feminist as we understand it. You know, it was

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<v Speaker 2>a patriarchal society, but you know that political expression and

395
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<v Speaker 2>form was still a ways off, even though we can

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<v Speaker 2>call some of this stuff I guess like proto or

397
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<v Speaker 2>extremely nascent. Yeah, you know, to.

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<v Speaker 1>That I'm fine with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.

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<v Speaker 2>Katie, thank you very much for the question. Next we

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<v Speaker 2>got one from dog God who said, generally, what generally

401
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<v Speaker 2>happened to the survivors of medieval shipwrecks if they were

402
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.440
<v Speaker 2>strained into a foreign country? Did they have a way

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00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:59.359
<v Speaker 2>of getting home? And I think one big thing here

404
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.039
<v Speaker 2>is that this depends on where you are shipwrecked, when

405
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<v Speaker 2>you are shipwrecked, and what the relationship is between the

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<v Speaker 2>place the owner of the land that you have been

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<v Speaker 2>ship direcked upon in your home nation or territory or whatever.

408
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<v Speaker 2>And a lot of times that's us controlled by treaty

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<v Speaker 2>like yeah, and and but yeah, it's it really depends eleanor.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it does. But I mean I think that like,

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<v Speaker 1>you probably stand the best chance of getting back home

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<v Speaker 1>if you are like a Venetian. Yeah, for example, like,

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<v Speaker 1>because they have such an incredibly wide array of ships

414
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.119
<v Speaker 1>that are moving around at all times, you're gonna be

415
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.839
<v Speaker 1>able to find another Venetian in the area wherever you are,

416
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.680
<v Speaker 1>like in order to help out, and they are going

417
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:54.640
<v Speaker 1>to you know, be able to kind of like vouch

418
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:56.400
<v Speaker 1>for you because if they know where your family is

419
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.039
<v Speaker 1>or whatever, they'll they'll pick you up right, they'll take

420
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:04.240
<v Speaker 1>you home. If you end up shipwrecked, you know, very

421
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:08.039
<v Speaker 1>far away, like completely outside of your cultural context, that's

422
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:10.440
<v Speaker 1>gonna be a little more difficult. But if you're a

423
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:13.359
<v Speaker 1>merchant or a trader or some kind, you'll probably be

424
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:17.200
<v Speaker 1>good because most people are quite interested in sort of

425
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:21.160
<v Speaker 1>like keeping trade flowing, right, They're gonna be like, oh, yeah, okay,

426
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.079
<v Speaker 1>let's find someone who's got some kind of language in common.

427
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:27.960
<v Speaker 1>We'll get this worked out. We'll see what we can see,

428
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.839
<v Speaker 1>and it is possible to kind of make your way

429
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:34.000
<v Speaker 1>back home. You're gonna run into trouble if you are

430
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.880
<v Speaker 1>like a soldier of some description and you end up

431
00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:40.519
<v Speaker 1>in the wrong place. Like that's the thing, Like, even

432
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.599
<v Speaker 1>nobility like this can be a real problem because you know,

433
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:49.200
<v Speaker 1>if there's beef between you and whoever else, you might

434
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:54.680
<v Speaker 1>find yourself in trouble. They might demand ransoms in order

435
00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:59.839
<v Speaker 1>to get you different places, that sort of thing. But yeah,

436
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:04.319
<v Speaker 1>I think on the whole you're best off being a

437
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:08.519
<v Speaker 1>trader because you know, trade is the thing that unites

438
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:12.599
<v Speaker 1>us all. But I mean, like if you are I

439
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.119
<v Speaker 1>would need wrong like in Genoa, good luck. They're not

440
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:21.000
<v Speaker 1>all like that, you know, So yeah.

441
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean there, And there's also a chance that the people,

442
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.440
<v Speaker 2>the first person that you encounter if you are ship

443
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:34.440
<v Speaker 2>direct is a group of pirates or smugglers or bandits

444
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:41.160
<v Speaker 2>some something like that, and you meet a grizzly fate

445
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:46.759
<v Speaker 2>regardless of whether you know whether you landed on your

446
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.319
<v Speaker 2>ally shores or an enemy shores. So you know, it's

447
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:55.480
<v Speaker 2>just a it's the rich menagerie of medieval life the rich,

448
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:02.880
<v Speaker 2>the rich heterogeneous tap of medieval life, where like it

449
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>was like well, I mean, like if you're Venetian and

450
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:07.920
<v Speaker 2>you got a bunch of money on you and you

451
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.480
<v Speaker 2>land intact, you could probably get home from anywhere unless

452
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:14.559
<v Speaker 2>somebody you know who doesn't care picks you up and

453
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.759
<v Speaker 2>just kills you for the gold you have, and which

454
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:21.000
<v Speaker 2>goes well, I don't know, I'm.

455
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, completely completely all.

456
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Right, uh dogad, Thank you very much for the question.

457
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Next we got one from the final vow. Can we

458
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:34.480
<v Speaker 2>get a brief history of how Jesus was depicted through

459
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:38.119
<v Speaker 2>antiquity in the medieval era? How did certain symbols besides

460
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.720
<v Speaker 2>the obvious cross or colors come to represent him? Who

461
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.640
<v Speaker 2>decided what he looked like? The question is inspired by

462
00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.400
<v Speaker 2>my friend who grew up Catholic, pointing out a medieval

463
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:50.680
<v Speaker 2>manuscript where Jesus was shown clean shaven. He said that

464
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.440
<v Speaker 2>he'd never seen Jesus drawn that way before. I also

465
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:56.680
<v Speaker 2>remembered reading about very early images of Jesus looking like

466
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.759
<v Speaker 2>the god Apollo. And I've seen Russian Orthodox icons that

467
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.319
<v Speaker 2>you look somewhat distinct as well. I imagine there were points

468
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:04.720
<v Speaker 2>of divergence for that sort of thing.

469
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean mostly it's going to be based on

470
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:13.079
<v Speaker 1>artistic preferences, which do exist. I mean, the major way

471
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.920
<v Speaker 1>you're going to see your good boy JC is on

472
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:20.759
<v Speaker 1>the cross, which is, you know, the ordinary sort of thing,

473
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:24.839
<v Speaker 1>or you're going to see him depicted within varying bits

474
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.519
<v Speaker 1>of his life, you know, so that you understand that

475
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:30.359
<v Speaker 1>you're looking at Jesus. Right. They all usually have a

476
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.279
<v Speaker 1>little bit of icronography, like any religious person, that tells

477
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Speaker 1>you who they are. So you know, if it's Saint Agnes,

478
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:39.640
<v Speaker 1>she's going to have a lamb with her. You know,

479
00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:41.839
<v Speaker 1>if it's John the Baptist, he's going to be looking

480
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 1>scruffy with it. Things like that. So you need to

481
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:47.000
<v Speaker 1>have these symbols so that people know who it is.

482
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:53.839
<v Speaker 1>They are looking at an unbearded Jesus. Not usual, it's

483
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:56.960
<v Speaker 1>not particularly un usual, but it would make sense within

484
00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.079
<v Speaker 1>a clerical context because a lot of the time a

485
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:03.519
<v Speaker 1>monks shave their which is a symbol of their the

486
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:06.000
<v Speaker 1>fact that they've retreated from the world. So you know,

487
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.960
<v Speaker 1>monks are often tauntured and shaven, and that's how you

488
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.519
<v Speaker 1>know that they're a member of the clergy, because they

489
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:14.759
<v Speaker 1>don't have beards and things of this nature. They're they're

490
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:17.839
<v Speaker 1>apart and separate from the world. So Jesus with no

491
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:23.759
<v Speaker 1>beard is likely to be a reference to kind of

492
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:27.440
<v Speaker 1>clerical sensibilities, church sensibilities. You know, this is a monk

493
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:32.279
<v Speaker 1>trying to see himself in Jesus, right, Symbology wise, like

494
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:34.359
<v Speaker 1>earlier on, you know, you got lots of you know,

495
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:36.359
<v Speaker 1>ick this is and things like that, so you draw

496
00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:40.039
<v Speaker 1>the little fish and stuff before it becomes legal to

497
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.039
<v Speaker 1>be a Christian and then that kind of thing, so

498
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.319
<v Speaker 1>you have that little symbology like in terms of the oh,

499
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.279
<v Speaker 1>they're like it looks like the god Apollo. I think

500
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:50.000
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff is really over egged, and it's like

501
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:54.160
<v Speaker 1>pretty Victorian in the sensibilities, you know, people want there

502
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.880
<v Speaker 1>to be this like one to one paganism which is

503
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:03.039
<v Speaker 1>then replaced with Christianity when what we definitely know from

504
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:08.200
<v Speaker 1>watching Christianity takeover in certain places, So for example, like

505
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.279
<v Speaker 1>with the Vikings, what you often see more often is

506
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:13.759
<v Speaker 1>actually these two things existing side by side, much to

507
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:17.119
<v Speaker 1>the scrin of the clergy, right, And you know when

508
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:21.319
<v Speaker 1>people are like, oh, well, really Easter is just peg

509
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:23.799
<v Speaker 1>in the holiday and I'm like, yeah, like everybody. I

510
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:27.559
<v Speaker 1>don't know what to tell you. Everybody has a spring festival,

511
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 1>right like like this is this isn't a gotcha, right like,

512
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:34.960
<v Speaker 1>it just is what it is like, and you know,

513
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 1>like you know, possibly possibly, yeah, sure, it might be

514
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>nice to just like if you've got a nice statue

515
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:43.920
<v Speaker 1>of Apollo, you might just want to be like, no,

516
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:46.839
<v Speaker 1>it's Jesus and like paying him the different color or

517
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.039
<v Speaker 1>some shit, because like that's pretty nice statute. You might

518
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:51.240
<v Speaker 1>you might want to reuse it. But you know, by

519
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 1>the time we're in the medieval period, like it's it's

520
00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:59.000
<v Speaker 1>been a minute, right, that's we were doing all that,

521
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, so you have lots of other things, and yeah,

522
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:08.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, obviously iconography differs between like the Orthodox Church

523
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:12.200
<v Speaker 1>and the Catholic Church at times, but on the whole,

524
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:15.720
<v Speaker 1>you pretty much know who you're looking at, and for them,

525
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:20.039
<v Speaker 1>it's less like this is a drawing of Jesus and

526
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.359
<v Speaker 1>he looks this way. It's more like I need to

527
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.160
<v Speaker 1>make this legible as Jesus. Yeah right, It's it's not

528
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.400
<v Speaker 1>portraiture as such. It is it is symbols and that's

529
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:30.960
<v Speaker 1>what matters.

530
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm visibly shuddering at beardless Jesus that no, no thanks,

531
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. I don't I don't even care, like I

532
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:46.279
<v Speaker 2>just like know that. Yeah, I'm sorry. I yeah. All

533
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:49.640
<v Speaker 2>I would add is that you asked about color, and

534
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:54.160
<v Speaker 2>purple as a color has been associated with Jesus since

535
00:31:55.400 --> 00:32:00.000
<v Speaker 2>the earliest times because purple was the color of world

536
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 2>and you know, nobility at the or not nobility of

537
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:09.279
<v Speaker 2>royalty in the highest levels of of of rulership at

538
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:13.119
<v Speaker 2>that time. So yeah, been that way since before the

539
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:16.640
<v Speaker 2>medieval era. But yeah, final val, thank you again very

540
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:20.079
<v Speaker 2>much for the question. Next we got one from Quixotic,

541
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.599
<v Speaker 2>who says, I took the following picture of a statue

542
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:26.440
<v Speaker 2>at the met Cloisters and this acrobat, this acrobat here

543
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:33.559
<v Speaker 2>appears to be wearing crocs. What kind of what kind

544
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:36.599
<v Speaker 2>of footwear is this and what is the advantage of it? Also,

545
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.759
<v Speaker 2>is footwear in general something most normal people are making

546
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:43.440
<v Speaker 2>for themselves, especially a specialty good they pay someone else for.

547
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for the pod, and seriously people go to the

548
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:54.039
<v Speaker 2>met Cloisters And if you can from Quixotic, so yeah,

549
00:32:54.440 --> 00:33:00.839
<v Speaker 2>eleanor why is this? Why is the monk doing a

550
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.119
<v Speaker 2>backbend and why is he wearing slippers that look like

551
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:08.480
<v Speaker 2>they have Swiss cheese holes in them, like modern crocs.

552
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so what we are looking at is probably actual slippers.

553
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:19.519
<v Speaker 1>As you say. So, like the major way that we

554
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.079
<v Speaker 1>see footwear in the Middle Ages is you have kind

555
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:27.359
<v Speaker 1>of wooden overshoes for walking around in the mud and

556
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.440
<v Speaker 1>shit like that, and then you kind of have like

557
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.440
<v Speaker 1>a cloth shoe or a wool shoe or like a

558
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:36.079
<v Speaker 1>softer leather shoe that then slips inside that so that

559
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:40.680
<v Speaker 1>when you get into a house, you take your overshoes

560
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.200
<v Speaker 1>off and then you bring these in. And I think

561
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:47.759
<v Speaker 1>what we're seeing here is they're trying to sort of

562
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:53.200
<v Speaker 1>show us a stippling effect, probably on soft leather. So

563
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:55.480
<v Speaker 1>this is going to be like, oh, these are kind

564
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>of fancier shoes. It's got like polka dots right here.

565
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:02.640
<v Speaker 1>You can see there's been a lot of attention paid

566
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:06.279
<v Speaker 1>to the folds of the cloth. They're really trying to

567
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.119
<v Speaker 1>make it sure you understand how the cloth folds, and

568
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:10.320
<v Speaker 1>so what they're doing there is they're also showing you that,

569
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.840
<v Speaker 1>like this is kind of worked leather. There are cobblers,

570
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:18.280
<v Speaker 1>is the answer. They do be out here coblin. Even

571
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:21.360
<v Speaker 1>if you are in a smaller village, you know, there

572
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:25.079
<v Speaker 1>might have access to someone who specializes in this. But

573
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:29.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times people make they own shoe, you know,

574
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:33.119
<v Speaker 1>like you will. You can make leather shoes, you can

575
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:34.960
<v Speaker 1>make wooden shoes and things like that. But also you know,

576
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.440
<v Speaker 1>when you go to market town, there's gonna be someone

577
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.559
<v Speaker 1>who's better at making clogs than you, for sure, for sure.

578
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:46.079
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, and fun fact, this is this here, this

579
00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:48.159
<v Speaker 1>little backbend, this is like the number one way that

580
00:34:48.199 --> 00:34:54.079
<v Speaker 1>they love to show acrobats. They're always showing acrobats hating

581
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:59.800
<v Speaker 1>this move. The Salome on the outside of Ruan Cathedral

582
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:03.599
<v Speaker 1>is hit in this as well, which I think is

583
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.440
<v Speaker 1>really funny because they're like, oh yeah, the sexiest thing

584
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:09.920
<v Speaker 1>they can think of is this. Yeah, oh yeah.

585
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:11.719
<v Speaker 2>It's neither here nor there. But I love art of

586
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:17.079
<v Speaker 2>Solome because like she was one of the pre imminent

587
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:25.039
<v Speaker 2>muses and art tropes from I don't know, like probably

588
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:28.239
<v Speaker 2>like two ears basically since like the Catholic Church as

589
00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:34.559
<v Speaker 2>an entity has existed probably before that, and like now,

590
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:40.239
<v Speaker 2>like now today she is solely known through art, Like

591
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:45.119
<v Speaker 2>she is not like what uh like that? That is it?

592
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:48.039
<v Speaker 2>Like like when I was growing up, like Solome was

593
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:50.760
<v Speaker 2>just a name that's in the Bible, like it's not

594
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:54.599
<v Speaker 2>accorded like any significance like it was to people like

595
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.039
<v Speaker 2>back in the day, like I'm so horny, what can

596
00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I get away with drawing? Oh clarial dude?

597
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, exactly, it's like, yeah, she's she's baddie or

598
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:07.880
<v Speaker 1>allowed to draw, right yep? And her and Jezebel Yeah yeah, yeah,

599
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.519
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, it's fun how how that shows up? So yeah,

600
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:15.840
<v Speaker 1>it's it's interesting. This is a really interesting uh yeah statue.

601
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:19.440
<v Speaker 1>I really like it. I think it's clearly kind of

602
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:22.719
<v Speaker 1>was on a pillar or something like that, so you know,

603
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:24.599
<v Speaker 1>you could you can see how much fun the Stonemason

604
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:27.880
<v Speaker 1>is having with this one, which I really respect. But yeah,

605
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.000
<v Speaker 1>basically I think that what they're just trying to show

606
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:34.079
<v Speaker 1>is that this person has really fun clothes, which is,

607
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of like underscores their their position as

608
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.159
<v Speaker 1>as an acrobat. Right.

609
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:39.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

610
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Also, all the subject of the cloisters, I'm probably giving

611
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:46.199
<v Speaker 1>a talk there in January or February this year, probably

612
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 1>more likely to be fab at this point, so I

613
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.519
<v Speaker 1>don't know, if you're in the area, I'll let you

614
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:54.199
<v Speaker 1>know when that happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

615
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'll probably yeah, I'll probably use this image as

616
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.119
<v Speaker 2>the header for this episode so you can take a look.

617
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, come check it out, guys.

618
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, i'd post images on spreaker where this stuff comes from,

619
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:08.760
<v Speaker 2>but they won't. Uh, they won't let me post some

620
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:11.599
<v Speaker 2>of the things. So yeah, anyway, I'll definitely post it

621
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:15.679
<v Speaker 2>on Patreon too, quick son, thank you for the question

622
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:20.199
<v Speaker 2>and the fun image. Next, we got one man this

623
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.960
<v Speaker 2>name from Uh, we got one from Jost, the Texican

624
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:28.519
<v Speaker 2>who says, is it known what became of Astrolabe, the

625
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:35.360
<v Speaker 2>son of Eloise and frenemy of the show Peter Abelard. Uh,

626
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I need to say that Astrolabe is the naming your

627
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:44.360
<v Speaker 2>kid Kalisi of the Middle Ages. Yeah, I also need

628
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:47.639
<v Speaker 2>to say that he became.

629
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:49.519
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

630
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:54.599
<v Speaker 2>His name is Astrolabias, which just makes in Latin it's

631
00:37:54.599 --> 00:38:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Astrolabias and it just sounds like Astrolabia. Anyway, man probably

632
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.760
<v Speaker 2>just annihilated him with that name in school or whatever. Anyway,

633
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:07.360
<v Speaker 2>eleanor I'm sure there's a serious hatser here.

634
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:12.519
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, yeah, so we know from letters that Heloise

635
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:18.480
<v Speaker 1>wrote that she's kind of like trying to make sure

636
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:20.559
<v Speaker 1>he has a good position. We know that he's been

637
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:22.880
<v Speaker 1>educated for the church, which is of course probably what

638
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.679
<v Speaker 1>they wanted. And we do know that Eloise, like writes

639
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:33.039
<v Speaker 1>the Abbot of Clooney, Peter is the Venerable, and like

640
00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:37.320
<v Speaker 1>she's trying to find a position for him in like

641
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:42.400
<v Speaker 1>an affiliate collegiate church sometime in the twelfth century, and

642
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:45.679
<v Speaker 1>Peter's venerable writes back to Eloise like really nicely, and

643
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:49.599
<v Speaker 1>he's like, yeah, like I'll find him a prebend and

644
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:53.360
<v Speaker 1>like and he's like, I'll do it for your sake,

645
00:38:54.199 --> 00:38:56.440
<v Speaker 1>which kind of shows you the esteem that Eloise is

646
00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:01.840
<v Speaker 1>held in. So you know, clearly this is like a

647
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.559
<v Speaker 1>woman who commands this serious respect. And she's also clearly

648
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:08.000
<v Speaker 1>still doing like the mom thing of being like, we

649
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:12.199
<v Speaker 1>got to find a position for my kid. Right, So

650
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:17.920
<v Speaker 1>we do know that he's definitely like being groomed for

651
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:23.159
<v Speaker 1>the church, and we know that he is kind of

652
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:29.280
<v Speaker 1>connected to a guy called Poucher who was attached to

653
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:34.400
<v Speaker 1>the cathedral in Nantes, and then like we do know

654
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.400
<v Speaker 1>that like these are people who kind of like look

655
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.239
<v Speaker 1>after him. Right, There's a guy called Bernard of Escoublac,

656
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:45.440
<v Speaker 1>and he was a dean of the cathedral chapter at Clervaux,

657
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and that's a really big deal, right, So he he

658
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:53.639
<v Speaker 1>like helps find these places, so we know that he

659
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:58.119
<v Speaker 1>eventually kind of like finds like a place within the church,

660
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.960
<v Speaker 1>and that there are are multiple members of the church

661
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:07.079
<v Speaker 1>who are interested in making sure that he lives a nice,

662
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:09.440
<v Speaker 1>long life. So yeah, there you go, church.

663
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:13.159
<v Speaker 2>For him, right, Yeah, yeah, we should probably do an

664
00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:16.480
<v Speaker 2>episode on Avalard at some point. He's just so interesting,

665
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:22.079
<v Speaker 2>like good and bad, insanely weird and insanely insanely just

666
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.719
<v Speaker 2>what an interesting person for this for this time, Like

667
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:29.280
<v Speaker 2>it really seems like a man out of history and

668
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:36.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of a lot of brother alb right, my

669
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:41.039
<v Speaker 2>god man. Ah So but.

670
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting. It's like, I mean, fundamentally people really

671
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:45.800
<v Speaker 1>like clearly people like Eloise.

672
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, they love her, and uh yeah it's they

673
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:54.000
<v Speaker 2>don't less So yeah, they don't like Abelard, but they

674
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:58.440
<v Speaker 2>like Eloise and she fucking loves Abelard for whatever reason,

675
00:40:58.559 --> 00:40:59.320
<v Speaker 2>whatever reason.

676
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.400
<v Speaker 1>An astrolabe Ablard that's his kid's name. This poor kid.

677
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:08.360
<v Speaker 1>You'd have to go to the church, you'd have to, like,

678
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.079
<v Speaker 1>you can't, you can't. No one's gonna fuck.

679
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Astrola because they no one else knows what an astrolabe is.

680
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:18.679
<v Speaker 2>I was when I look this up. I learned that

681
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Abelard was the person who like popularized the astrolabe as

682
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:27.400
<v Speaker 2>like a as like a I guess an art motif

683
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:29.480
<v Speaker 2>and also is like a real way for them to

684
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:34.159
<v Speaker 2>like describe their cosmology. So like it's like it's like

685
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>the guy it's like, uh, Marconi naming his son radio

686
00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 2>and then being like why doesn't anyone why why don't

687
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:44.519
<v Speaker 2>you know what his name is? Like it's so like,

688
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:48.920
<v Speaker 2>oh man, Anyway, I don't think Ablard invented the astrolab

689
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.760
<v Speaker 2>by the way, I'm just saying it's kind of comparable. Josh,

690
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:55.880
<v Speaker 2>thank you very much for the question. Uh good life

691
00:41:56.440 --> 00:42:00.239
<v Speaker 2>astrolabe probably went into the church and died around the

692
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:05.360
<v Speaker 2>eleven fifty eleven fifties. Yeah, so, uh, Next we got

693
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:08.639
<v Speaker 2>one from Laura and Pegasus, who says, I don't know

694
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:11.320
<v Speaker 2>if this question is more ancient than medieval history, but

695
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:13.519
<v Speaker 2>I was wondering what happened to all the slaves in

696
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:18.199
<v Speaker 2>the district different regions of the Western Roman Empire as

697
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:21.719
<v Speaker 2>it started collapsing. Did they escape just kept on as

698
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:23.519
<v Speaker 2>slaves and gradually become serfs.

699
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that's pretty much it. Yeah, Like so

700
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:32.199
<v Speaker 1>basically the Roman empire itself collapses, but like your boss

701
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:34.320
<v Speaker 1>is still fucking there, Like the guy who owns he

702
00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:40.559
<v Speaker 1>was still there, and he's usually got some hired goons, right, Yeah,

703
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:42.360
<v Speaker 1>not tired of saying that.

704
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Ever, No, I never will be no matter how, no

705
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:48.679
<v Speaker 2>matter that the definition of goons has changed to like

706
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.400
<v Speaker 2>people who like edge when they jerk off or whatever

707
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.400
<v Speaker 2>it actually is, it's it's hired goons to me, dam it.

708
00:42:55.719 --> 00:42:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's always going to be hired guons to me. So, yeah,

709
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:02.000
<v Speaker 1>you know that there are going to be your people

710
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.400
<v Speaker 1>who are compelling you to stay in your place. They

711
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.480
<v Speaker 1>do eventually kind of switch over into being more in surf.

712
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.679
<v Speaker 1>But also in the earlier medieval period we do have

713
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:15.239
<v Speaker 1>a high level of enslavement that often happens, for example,

714
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:21.280
<v Speaker 1>like that's what the vikings are doing, like unpopular fact

715
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.119
<v Speaker 1>that people people really like to gloss over that. Now

716
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.119
<v Speaker 1>people like to be like, oh there were traders, and

717
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:28.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm always like, uh huh, what were they trading?

718
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Trading?

719
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's cool, Like, babe, there's only so much amber

720
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:41.880
<v Speaker 1>in the Baltic right, like, so they are there's and

721
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:45.559
<v Speaker 1>that's also why things you know, when you know, you

722
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:47.920
<v Speaker 1>hear the term rape and pillage, it's confusing because it

723
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:50.920
<v Speaker 1>comes from like the word raptists, and raptists means kidnap

724
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:53.679
<v Speaker 1>as much as it means rape, so like, actually what

725
00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:55.400
<v Speaker 1>most people are complaining about is the fact that like

726
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:58.880
<v Speaker 1>you get fucking kidnapped when the vikings show up, and

727
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.119
<v Speaker 1>like and also not even with the vikings, but like

728
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:06.679
<v Speaker 1>earlier in the medieval period, you can be the victim

729
00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:09.400
<v Speaker 1>of like raids from local places, and what they usually

730
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:10.880
<v Speaker 1>try to do is kind of just like get you

731
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:15.280
<v Speaker 1>far enough away from like maybe your linguistic group or

732
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:17.840
<v Speaker 1>anyone who can like necessarily help you, and then and

733
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:21.639
<v Speaker 1>then you'll be enslaved. So the Roman slaves just kind

734
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.719
<v Speaker 1>of they're still there and they're they're still enslaved. But

735
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the situation of enslavement doesn't really go away much until

736
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:34.000
<v Speaker 1>like the High Medieval period, like the further into Christianity

737
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:36.719
<v Speaker 1>you get the fewer enslaved people they are there are

738
00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:39.039
<v Speaker 1>because like.

739
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Until until until the unpleasantness.

740
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:45.719
<v Speaker 1>Until the unpleasantness of that comes about in the fifteenth

741
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.880
<v Speaker 1>century and then forward, so in the medieval period, there

742
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:52.000
<v Speaker 1>are fewer and fewer enslaved people, but you're more likely

743
00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:55.880
<v Speaker 1>to have like more enslaved people in areas where like

744
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Muslims and Christians are living next to each other because

745
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.360
<v Speaker 1>they're constantly like enslaving each other back and forth, as

746
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:03.880
<v Speaker 1>is the style of the time. So because you're kind

747
00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of like allowed to have slaves from the other religions.

748
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.480
<v Speaker 1>But like so for example, like you have all kinds

749
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:15.079
<v Speaker 1>of you will see miracles done by certain stints. So

750
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:18.000
<v Speaker 1>for example, Saint Ventis loss one of his miracles after

751
00:45:18.079 --> 00:45:21.400
<v Speaker 1>he's dead as he frees some slaves who are Christians.

752
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:25.079
<v Speaker 1>And it's like basically one of these things where it's

753
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:29.079
<v Speaker 1>made very clear that it's unacceptable to keep slaves if

754
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.719
<v Speaker 1>they are are Christian. And that's kind of like ninth century.

755
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:38.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah, Lauren Pegasus, thank you very much for

756
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:42.559
<v Speaker 2>the question. Next, we have one from Gafsei. We have

757
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:46.960
<v Speaker 2>an idea of how nobility. We have an idea of

758
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:50.840
<v Speaker 2>how nobility views chivalry and stuff from the popularity of

759
00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:53.719
<v Speaker 2>written texts about Charllemagne's knights, King Arthur's court, et cetera.

760
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Do we have any records of popular oral traditions where

761
00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:00.360
<v Speaker 2>the depictions of things like knightly honor, chivalry, et cetera

762
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:03.920
<v Speaker 2>significantly different, or were the broad strokes the same?

763
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:06.519
<v Speaker 1>Uh No, I mean the broad strokes about the same

764
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:09.480
<v Speaker 1>what you tend to get from popular literature, like especially,

765
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:12.760
<v Speaker 1>which is there's less like popular literature. It's more like

766
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:17.519
<v Speaker 1>fablio what you got written down, or like sometimes we

767
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:19.880
<v Speaker 1>have plays recorded and the major thing that you'll see

768
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.000
<v Speaker 1>there is them making fun of nights and doing fart

769
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:26.599
<v Speaker 1>jokes about them, doing jokes about how like the only

770
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:29.280
<v Speaker 1>thing they're actually interested in is like cucking their boss

771
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:33.880
<v Speaker 1>and like that that's actually what it's what it's about, right,

772
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:37.440
<v Speaker 1>like the idea that this isn't for anything virtuous and

773
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.880
<v Speaker 1>indeed it's just about like getting your leg over. That's

774
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:44.039
<v Speaker 1>that's what you had to say, so you know, it's

775
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:48.719
<v Speaker 1>why I'm not calling it particularly like subtle. But yeah,

776
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:50.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if they're going to portray a knight is good,

777
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:52.559
<v Speaker 1>they're going to do it in exactly the same way.

778
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:55.079
<v Speaker 1>And if they feel like making fun of a night,

779
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:57.920
<v Speaker 1>they're gonna do pretty much exactly the same thing. It's

780
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.440
<v Speaker 1>just like, oh that you're just like an idiot with

781
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:06.760
<v Speaker 1>cta who wants to suck everything that moves the end. Yeah. Well, also,

782
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:09.159
<v Speaker 1>I guess we also do see like at times, like

783
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:12.719
<v Speaker 1>within legends. So for example, like you know, within the

784
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Robin Hood legend, I mean, the nobility is what's being

785
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:19.599
<v Speaker 1>lampooned here, you know, like you know, these these guys

786
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:24.760
<v Speaker 1>being bad right like and and needing to have be

787
00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:29.480
<v Speaker 1>stole from stole from stolen from there.

788
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. I also think that it's good to remember

789
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:41.320
<v Speaker 2>that a lot of the folklore and and epic traditions

790
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:47.039
<v Speaker 2>and stuff they do descend from popular oral traditions. So

791
00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:50.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, like the stuff about you know, the to

792
00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:53.000
<v Speaker 2>take an example of something like the Green Knight or

793
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:59.639
<v Speaker 2>something like that. You know, stories like that just because

794
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:04.199
<v Speaker 2>they were compiled by a churchman at some point, uh

795
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.960
<v Speaker 2>or you know later just another guy. But just because

796
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:10.960
<v Speaker 2>they were compiled by a churchman doesn't mean that they

797
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:15.000
<v Speaker 2>were uh noble in origin, although you know, the translation

798
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:17.920
<v Speaker 2>would probably get changed to you know, one that has

799
00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:23.559
<v Speaker 2>more noble sensibilities. But yeah, I mean the problem with

800
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:28.599
<v Speaker 2>chivalry generally is that you can't point to it had

801
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.800
<v Speaker 2>you there. It's very very very very hard to point

802
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:38.679
<v Speaker 2>to it having been a real, uh even somewhat codified

803
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:42.360
<v Speaker 2>thing that people did at Eleanor of Aquitaine's court. Like

804
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:46.800
<v Speaker 2>there is evidence for and against that. But the thing

805
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:52.039
<v Speaker 2>that is undeniable is that after that fact, the concept

806
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:57.719
<v Speaker 2>of chivalries spread out into what I mean, their popular

807
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:04.119
<v Speaker 2>culture and their ideas to the point that we didn't

808
00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:08.119
<v Speaker 2>really talk about it. But like the Persians, uh, the

809
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:13.679
<v Speaker 2>the Iranians, they had concepts of chivalry within their medieval

810
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:19.079
<v Speaker 2>societies of like how uh noble warriors should treat one another,

811
00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:23.360
<v Speaker 2>and uh, I mean that that stems from the same

812
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:27.119
<v Speaker 2>like honor based systems and like you know, nightly virtue

813
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:33.320
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that that the uh, the Eleanor chivalry

814
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:35.960
<v Speaker 2>idea came from. So and I mean they were still

815
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:38.559
<v Speaker 2>doing that. I talked about Napoleon earlier. They were still

816
00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:42.920
<v Speaker 2>talking about the same stuff like nobles and generals and stuff.

817
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.480
<v Speaker 2>During the Napoleonic Wars. We're talking about you know, virtue

818
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:51.639
<v Speaker 2>and everything, as were the fucking uh slaveholding uh traitorous Confederacy.

819
00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:54.679
<v Speaker 2>They all those guys were fucking obsessed with it. They

820
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:57.679
<v Speaker 2>didn't even they weren't even using swords anymore, and fucking

821
00:49:57.760 --> 00:49:59.719
<v Speaker 2>gatling guns out there and they were still talking.

822
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah hell man, Yeah, so true.

823
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:05.440
<v Speaker 2>They died and they deserved it anyway, funny.

824
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love it. I love that they died. It's good.

825
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:15.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, so yeah exactly. Uh yeah. The I think

826
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the views of chivalry were pretty much the same probably

827
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:24.159
<v Speaker 2>until don Quixote. Like at that point, I think you

828
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:28.599
<v Speaker 2>can probably understand that, like there is an undercurrent of like,

829
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:32.599
<v Speaker 2>all right, this is fucking stupid, and like it starts

830
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:36.119
<v Speaker 2>to change at that point. But again, don Quixote is

831
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:41.119
<v Speaker 2>the early fifteen hundreds, and you know, literacy that widespread

832
00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:42.920
<v Speaker 2>and it's very long.

833
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:47.679
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, what it did for it, don Quixote did

834
00:50:48.039 --> 00:50:55.199
<v Speaker 1>for the chivroalric literature what walk Hard did to music biographies.

835
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:57.880
<v Speaker 1>For a while, everyone's like, pack it up, Yes.

836
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:04.840
<v Speaker 2>We're done. Back from this right again in fifteen years, okay. Yeah,

837
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:06.920
<v Speaker 2>and then and then they'll do Elvis and we'll get

838
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:11.159
<v Speaker 2>the He's white meme and He's and Austin, Austin Butler

839
00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:13.239
<v Speaker 2>will do that will not be able to lose the voice.

840
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:14.400
<v Speaker 2>It'll be great anyway.

841
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

842
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, see, thank you for the question. We got a

843
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:21.920
<v Speaker 2>couple more. This one is from drop Tuning, who says,

844
00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:28.000
<v Speaker 2>just wondering about medieval understandings of slash around, serious voice,

845
00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:35.039
<v Speaker 2>the responsible service of alcohol, where our publican ancestors obliged

846
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.039
<v Speaker 2>to withhold access to the sweet sweet nectar of social

847
00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:42.280
<v Speaker 2>success if we appeared absolutely fuck eyed or did they

848
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:45.079
<v Speaker 2>just keep pocketing the coins, importance to the door when

849
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:47.920
<v Speaker 2>it looked like we're about to require buckets and audust

850
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:52.039
<v Speaker 2>Also what we're medieval attitudes and morerace towards public drunkenness

851
00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:56.519
<v Speaker 2>in generals cheers legends. This burning missive was sent from

852
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:58.159
<v Speaker 2>a pub toilet xo xo.

853
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Hell, yes, it's my people, the drenks. You know, it's

854
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.039
<v Speaker 1>a beautiful culture. Yeah, this is a good question, and

855
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:09.599
<v Speaker 1>the answer is, for the most part, no, they don't

856
00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:13.920
<v Speaker 1>really have a whole lot of rules about this. There

857
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:17.079
<v Speaker 1>are some amusing illustrations from the Middle Ages of like

858
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:20.440
<v Speaker 1>women who are perhaps taverner is kind of like holding

859
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:25.280
<v Speaker 1>men's heads while they puke outside. Yeah, they're like, stew

860
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:26.800
<v Speaker 1>this way homeie.

861
00:52:26.320 --> 00:52:27.519
<v Speaker 2>We're not that different.

862
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:34.079
<v Speaker 1>Surely it's so beautiful. So yeah, you know we.

863
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh no the audio cut out again, Well, stitch this

864
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:41.880
<v Speaker 2>together and.

865
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Post because it is like, you know, there aren't that

866
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:52.079
<v Speaker 1>many places that are kind of like drinking out posts anyway.

867
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Like it's you're probably gonna be going to like a

868
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:58.519
<v Speaker 1>local lady in your neighborhood who like bruised the best beer,

869
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and it's gonna be like her house. So basically you're

870
00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:05.519
<v Speaker 1>gonna get cut off when she's sick of your bullshit. Right,

871
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:08.360
<v Speaker 1>It's not gonna be like something that is legislated. It's

872
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:11.119
<v Speaker 1>gonna be like she's like I swear to fucking Christ

873
00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:15.519
<v Speaker 1>John not again, like you know, your bar and that

874
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:17.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of a thing. So yeah, it's it's not anything

875
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:21.599
<v Speaker 1>that is kind of like legally yeah done. It's more

876
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:25.719
<v Speaker 1>about like what what the good people of your neighborhood

877
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:26.480
<v Speaker 1>will put up with?

878
00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:30.559
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah. Sorry, if you heard my voice there in

879
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.360
<v Speaker 2>the middle of Eleanor talking my audio, the audio completely

880
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.239
<v Speaker 2>cut out and I thought I had lost I thought

881
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:40.280
<v Speaker 2>i'd lost it again, So, uh, if you heard that,

882
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:41.760
<v Speaker 2>just out Sorry about that.

883
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:45.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah sorry, Like we're doing our best out here under

884
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:49.159
<v Speaker 1>circumstances today, so we appreciate your patience every Yeah.

885
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:54.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it like, uh, they don't have standard they

886
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:57.039
<v Speaker 2>don't have standard weight to measures, they don't have stuff

887
00:53:57.079 --> 00:54:01.119
<v Speaker 2>like that. It's uh, they don't have foods standards. I

888
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:04.119
<v Speaker 2>mean and like to be honest, Like when you cut

889
00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:09.000
<v Speaker 2>off a person, uh, A lot of times varies on

890
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:13.239
<v Speaker 2>like how they seem, you know, like you at a

891
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:16.119
<v Speaker 2>certain point, like I know there are rules about cutting

892
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:18.280
<v Speaker 2>people off, but also like bars can cut you off

893
00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:21.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot earlier if like you know, you're you're kind

894
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.800
<v Speaker 2>of type of a lightweight or something like that and

895
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:26.079
<v Speaker 2>you don't handle it very well. And you know, I

896
00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:28.639
<v Speaker 2>think that's probably always been true. I think you probably

897
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:33.360
<v Speaker 2>had the uh, the proprietress of the house throwing something

898
00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.920
<v Speaker 2>heavy at you. Uh, if you're the kind of person

899
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:41.440
<v Speaker 2>who couldn't hold two beers, you know you just like like, dude,

900
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:42.599
<v Speaker 2>that's like I.

901
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:46.199
<v Speaker 1>Told you you were barred. Piece you know, like.

902
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Drinking like the two percent ABV. It's like how do

903
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.719
<v Speaker 2>you even get drunk off of that going on in

904
00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:54.400
<v Speaker 2>your body?

905
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Like they're like, okay, you can come in, but you

906
00:54:57.039 --> 00:54:58.960
<v Speaker 1>can only have a small beer.

907
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:05.400
<v Speaker 2>God damn it. Yeah, I'm just imagining like some woman

908
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:08.360
<v Speaker 2>chasing like like she's chasing you with the frying pan.

909
00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:13.039
<v Speaker 2>But it's not like a it's not like a it's

910
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:17.719
<v Speaker 2>not like a sexist it's not like a sexist depiction

911
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:21.239
<v Speaker 2>of it. She's literally like, get the fuck out, shut up,

912
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:24.719
<v Speaker 2>no one, no one wants to sing. Stop requesting uh

913
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:28.000
<v Speaker 2>sweet Home Alabama from the bar. For the love of fuck.

914
00:55:28.039 --> 00:55:30.440
<v Speaker 2>He has to change instruments to do it.

915
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Stop. He doesn't know what Alabama is.

916
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:36.320
<v Speaker 2>None of us will for hundreds of years.

917
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Stop. Fuck.

918
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:42.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm so tired of you, John anyway, drop tuning. Thank

919
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:48.400
<v Speaker 2>you uh very much for the question. Uh yeah, I'm

920
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:54.400
<v Speaker 2>gonna tie one on and then you know, uh scene blank, blackout, drunk,

921
00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:59.960
<v Speaker 2>last one we got Uh oh, folks, we got a copy.

922
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Can't namer here. This is a different user. A web

923
00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:08.199
<v Speaker 2>presumer is an ekeboo, a different.

924
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:10.679
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk you. God, damn it.

925
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:16.039
<v Speaker 2>I hate you people, mister President, a second joke naming

926
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.079
<v Speaker 2>convention has hit the discord.

927
00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

928
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.519
<v Speaker 2>As revolutionaries, we look forward to the current order being

929
00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:26.960
<v Speaker 2>thrown down and replaced by a new, better world. I

930
00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:30.480
<v Speaker 2>recently read an argument we can't figure out where that

931
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:35.079
<v Speaker 2>this worldview is fundamentally informed by a millenarian Christian worldview.

932
00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:39.119
<v Speaker 2>Is that really true? Or precushion uprising like Spartacus in

933
00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:42.280
<v Speaker 2>the first century BCE doing something fundamentally different from a

934
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:46.119
<v Speaker 2>modern revolution. And you can't see this listeners, but steam

935
00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:49.159
<v Speaker 2>is currently shooting out of my ears. My face is

936
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:53.920
<v Speaker 2>uh is red. It has turned the color of a tomato,

937
00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:57.639
<v Speaker 2>and uh yeah, I have to go lie down for

938
00:56:57.679 --> 00:56:58.000
<v Speaker 2>a bit.

939
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Listen. I gotta tell you to me, this sounds like

940
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:09.159
<v Speaker 1>some misappropriation of Mark Fisher, right, Like this sounds like

941
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:13.639
<v Speaker 1>some some capitalist realism that that is sneaking in. And

942
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess that what I would say is like,

943
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, the term revolutionary isn't something that we see

944
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.760
<v Speaker 1>thrown around, but that that's true, right, because like that's

945
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:25.280
<v Speaker 1>that as a convention in terms of like a word

946
00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:28.199
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really exist in the same way. Like you know,

947
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:33.119
<v Speaker 1>for example, during the Peasants Uprising, right, they're not like,

948
00:57:33.320 --> 00:57:37.280
<v Speaker 1>oh we're having a revolution, this is a revolt, right,

949
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:39.760
<v Speaker 1>They're just like, I'm gonna fucking tear this shit down.

950
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:44.119
<v Speaker 1>And I mean I speak of the Peasants Uprising fondly

951
00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:46.960
<v Speaker 1>as always very excited for the movie. I hope that

952
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:50.679
<v Speaker 1>everyone will become a watt Tyler head when that when

953
00:57:50.679 --> 00:57:53.639
<v Speaker 1>that comes out. But I think it's important to point

954
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:57.440
<v Speaker 1>this out because what we're what we see right from

955
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:00.239
<v Speaker 1>rebellions like this is that there is a huge, huge

956
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:06.280
<v Speaker 1>desire to overthrow systems which oppress ordinary people, and when

957
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:09.840
<v Speaker 1>ordinary people have the possibility of doing so, they fucking

958
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:14.199
<v Speaker 1>take that, right, they take that. So I don't know,

959
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:17.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't like saying that, like, oh yeah, this is

960
00:58:17.239 --> 00:58:20.639
<v Speaker 1>like necessarily Christian Millenerianist in character. I mean, I suppose

961
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.679
<v Speaker 1>if what you're saying is that you're saying that the

962
00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:26.920
<v Speaker 1>world will end if we do something differently, but I

963
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:29.079
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's what we're saying at all. I think

964
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:31.159
<v Speaker 1>that what we're actually saying is that, like the world

965
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:35.079
<v Speaker 1>can be better, right, Yeah, Like I mean, sure, surely,

966
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:37.639
<v Speaker 1>surely that's what we're going for here, right lads, like

967
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:39.880
<v Speaker 1>or we're going we're going for a better world, not

968
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:43.599
<v Speaker 1>a not an ended world. And I don't necessarily agree

969
00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:48.079
<v Speaker 1>to to that as a as a way of relating

970
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:51.159
<v Speaker 1>to it. Is that is that about how you feel, Luke?

971
00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:54.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think I think I think I

972
00:58:54.440 --> 00:59:00.400
<v Speaker 2>have two things with this. The first is that the

973
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:05.800
<v Speaker 2>idea of revolutionaries, meaning people who have set out with

974
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:12.920
<v Speaker 2>a distinct political goal to overthrow the specific political system

975
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:17.840
<v Speaker 2>that exists within a nation and replace it with something

976
00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:23.639
<v Speaker 2>different or and I mean later replacing like entire world systems,

977
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:31.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, capitalism, communism, et cetera, et cetera. That is

978
00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:42.159
<v Speaker 2>a fundamentally early modern and modern concept. Like because as

979
00:59:42.280 --> 00:59:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Ellen were said, think of what Tyler. What Tyler was

980
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:48.880
<v Speaker 2>not going in and saying we don't need a king,

981
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:54.199
<v Speaker 2>we need a legislative assembly and something else. No, he

982
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:57.519
<v Speaker 2>was saying, as almost all of these people did, in

983
00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:01.440
<v Speaker 2>at least in Europe and and a lot in West

984
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Asia and North Africa, the king's evil advisors. It's the

985
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:09.000
<v Speaker 2>king's evil advisors that are doing this, or even if

986
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:11.320
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to go after the king, it was not

987
01:00:11.559 --> 01:00:14.920
<v Speaker 2>phrased in like we're going to completely overturn the system.

988
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:20.559
<v Speaker 2>For example, in China, the mandate of Heaven system was

989
01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:29.719
<v Speaker 2>used from to twenty ish BCE until nineteen twelve CE.

990
01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:36.199
<v Speaker 2>And it though when those things happened, even when an

991
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:39.880
<v Speaker 2>outside force came in, like when the Mongols came in

992
01:00:40.039 --> 01:00:45.599
<v Speaker 2>or when the Gin came in from without and imposed

993
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:49.760
<v Speaker 2>this rule on them, they didn't change the system. They

994
01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:53.519
<v Speaker 2>adapted themselves to it. As we talked about when we

995
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:59.239
<v Speaker 2>talk about the Mongols, Kublai Khan did not change China

996
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:04.440
<v Speaker 2>into a system like the other khanates or even like

997
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:10.239
<v Speaker 2>or even like how Timigin had done. He adapted his

998
01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Mongol sensibilities to China and assimilated to it. And that's

999
01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:20.760
<v Speaker 2>what people did. So even those weren't technically revolutions as

1000
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:24.559
<v Speaker 2>we understand them. So like the idea that it's fundamentally

1001
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:34.679
<v Speaker 2>millenarian makes no sense to me because Christian millenarianism have

1002
01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:43.639
<v Speaker 2>been around for fifteen hundred years. When when like the

1003
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:46.559
<v Speaker 2>English Civil War, and when you start when you start

1004
01:01:46.599 --> 01:01:51.440
<v Speaker 2>having these first like small ideas of like revolutions and

1005
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:54.800
<v Speaker 2>what that can mean, and then you have the American Revolution,

1006
01:01:55.119 --> 01:01:58.320
<v Speaker 2>which I think is vastly overrated in a lot of terms,

1007
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:02.199
<v Speaker 2>but it is a revolution. It does exchange one political

1008
01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:05.639
<v Speaker 2>system for another and throw off a rule, which is

1009
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:07.119
<v Speaker 2>definitionally a revolution.

1010
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:09.119
<v Speaker 1>But like.

1011
01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I just don't understand how it can be. I also

1012
01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:16.440
<v Speaker 2>don't understand how it can be MILLENERI And from the

1013
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:22.679
<v Speaker 2>standpoint of despite the fact that revolutions today are different

1014
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:28.800
<v Speaker 2>in terms of definitions and specifics, I don't they You're

1015
01:02:28.880 --> 01:02:32.400
<v Speaker 2>still following the same idea that people have been doing

1016
01:02:33.079 --> 01:02:37.599
<v Speaker 2>since the first like Slaver volt that happened, or the

1017
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:42.079
<v Speaker 2>first like time of vassal city state insumer got tired

1018
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.920
<v Speaker 2>of error or you know whoever, or lagash and tried

1019
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:49.360
<v Speaker 2>to fight back, and they probably were defeated. But like

1020
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:55.599
<v Speaker 2>that idea, that yearning to like uh, to be free

1021
01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of these things, and to be free of in a

1022
01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:03.039
<v Speaker 2>lot of cases like noble constraints or kingly prerogatives and

1023
01:03:03.079 --> 01:03:07.079
<v Speaker 2>things like that. They couldn't describe it in the modern

1024
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:10.719
<v Speaker 2>terms that we can because we have class consciousness, or

1025
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:14.360
<v Speaker 2>we should. They can't describe it like that. But that

1026
01:03:14.519 --> 01:03:17.840
<v Speaker 2>is the same impulse, the impulse that you feel right

1027
01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:24.119
<v Speaker 2>now when the burning hatred in your skin because your government,

1028
01:03:24.199 --> 01:03:28.840
<v Speaker 2>because America or England or anyone in the world, any

1029
01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:33.920
<v Speaker 2>place in the world, does this fascist like oppression and

1030
01:03:33.480 --> 01:03:36.519
<v Speaker 2>they other these people and they try to get them

1031
01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:40.960
<v Speaker 2>killed by either like their fascist police squads or like

1032
01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:44.360
<v Speaker 2>random civilians who have been worked into a frenzy. The

1033
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:50.639
<v Speaker 2>utter hatred and the risible nature that it brings, like

1034
01:03:51.639 --> 01:03:54.880
<v Speaker 2>the visceral like lump in your throat that comes up

1035
01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:57.760
<v Speaker 2>where you just want to scream and tear things apart

1036
01:03:57.800 --> 01:04:01.480
<v Speaker 2>because it's so awful, is the same thing, that same

1037
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:04.400
<v Speaker 2>sensation is what what Tyler and the people who followed

1038
01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:09.000
<v Speaker 2>him felt, is what is what they felt when they

1039
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:15.880
<v Speaker 2>overthrew uh the dynasty of Chinshi Wandi in in China,

1040
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:18.039
<v Speaker 2>but before the birth of Christ. It's the same thing

1041
01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:23.440
<v Speaker 2>because they felt this outward oppression and they felt those

1042
01:04:23.559 --> 01:04:26.760
<v Speaker 2>tendencies that it had, and they did not like it.

1043
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:31.000
<v Speaker 2>And that basic thing is something that has existed as

1044
01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:36.000
<v Speaker 2>far as we can tell since civilization began, because lagash

1045
01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:40.559
<v Speaker 2>And and er And and the bigger cities in sumer

1046
01:04:40.719 --> 01:04:44.360
<v Speaker 2>weren't like the other city states, weren't just like, oh yeah, great,

1047
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:47.079
<v Speaker 2>you guys are the top dogs and we're just we're

1048
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:49.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, we're going to accept the lesser status and

1049
01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:52.519
<v Speaker 2>be treated like shit, Like no, somebody had to be

1050
01:04:52.599 --> 01:04:59.639
<v Speaker 2>subserviated into that and through through some degree, and they

1051
01:04:59.679 --> 01:05:04.199
<v Speaker 2>rebel and we rebel. We have different words for it.

1052
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Our understanding of it is much different. And that's okay,

1053
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:13.599
<v Speaker 2>because the understanding of the understanding of how to overturn

1054
01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:16.079
<v Speaker 2>the mandate of Heaven was much different for the Song

1055
01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:20.480
<v Speaker 2>dynasty and the Nine hundreds than it was for the

1056
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:24.519
<v Speaker 2>Han and and you know, and and when Mao and

1057
01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Shankaishek when when they were fighting it out, their understandings

1058
01:05:28.599 --> 01:05:33.480
<v Speaker 2>of that and their embrace or disdain for those past

1059
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:40.519
<v Speaker 2>tendencies were completely different because technology and politics and ideology

1060
01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:45.400
<v Speaker 2>have moved, you know, hundreds a thousand years in the future.

1061
01:05:45.440 --> 01:05:52.159
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I don't, I just don't. I don't even

1062
01:05:52.280 --> 01:05:55.960
<v Speaker 2>see how those two things are directly connected in this

1063
01:05:56.480 --> 01:06:03.840
<v Speaker 2>unless you are saying that revolution shouldn't changed in such

1064
01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:11.159
<v Speaker 2>a degree because of how obsessed uh, like Cromwell and

1065
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:13.840
<v Speaker 2>his guys were with like the end of the world.

1066
01:06:13.960 --> 01:06:17.159
<v Speaker 1>But but I mean, like that's not all revolution Like,

1067
01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:21.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like, let us let's not like say that

1068
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:25.000
<v Speaker 1>the Puritans are like the vanguard of you know, the

1069
01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:31.079
<v Speaker 1>theespree of the revolutionary Like I simply refuse to believe that.

1070
01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:35.760
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I think there is just it. It's just

1071
01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:38.519
<v Speaker 1>so much more complex than that, you know. And I

1072
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:42.400
<v Speaker 1>do think that, you know, ordinary people know when they're

1073
01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:44.280
<v Speaker 1>being fund I mean, we were talking about this on

1074
01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:48.400
<v Speaker 1>the ghost episode for Patrons for you know, the Sumerian

1075
01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:52.519
<v Speaker 1>ghosts the other day. I mean, like even within like

1076
01:06:52.679 --> 01:06:59.000
<v Speaker 1>their creation myths, they're talking about strikes amongst the gods,

1077
01:06:59.239 --> 01:07:00.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, and it's like if if the gods are

1078
01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:03.119
<v Speaker 1>going on strike, then it stands to reason that they

1079
01:07:03.159 --> 01:07:07.079
<v Speaker 1>have a concept of people going on strike. We know

1080
01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:11.320
<v Speaker 1>that that enslaved people go on strike in ancient Rome.

1081
01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:15.480
<v Speaker 1>The friend and colleague Sarah Bonn has written a really

1082
01:07:15.559 --> 01:07:19.519
<v Speaker 1>great book on this recently about a strikes in ancient Rome,

1083
01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:21.760
<v Speaker 1>which you should really go check out. It's really excellent.

1084
01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:25.559
<v Speaker 1>She's an absolute fucking feed on. Oh my gosh, she's

1085
01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:29.039
<v Speaker 1>so intelligent. But it's, yeah, like, this is something that

1086
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:34.480
<v Speaker 1>is that is simply extant in when you are dealing

1087
01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:37.000
<v Speaker 1>with humans, because we actually know that we deserve better

1088
01:07:37.039 --> 01:07:39.920
<v Speaker 1>than this. And I just don't think that you can tell,

1089
01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:44.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, like the slaves who rise up against their

1090
01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:48.280
<v Speaker 1>oppressors in Rome, that this is a Christian Millinerian. Yeah,

1091
01:07:48.679 --> 01:07:50.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't think it works like that.

1092
01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:56.079
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, the slaves that fought for their freedom and died,

1093
01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:59.920
<v Speaker 2>and the slaves who every once in a very great

1094
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:04.599
<v Speaker 2>while would occasionally be able to like purchase their own

1095
01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:09.559
<v Speaker 2>freedom with with blood, which was was rare but did

1096
01:08:09.639 --> 01:08:14.760
<v Speaker 2>happen on on very on minor occasions. And uh, you know,

1097
01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:17.840
<v Speaker 2>there were slaves who escaped during even though the Spartacus

1098
01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:21.520
<v Speaker 2>rebellions and the survivor servile revolts were put down. Some

1099
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:26.199
<v Speaker 2>of those slaves definitely did escape, but like the first

1100
01:08:26.239 --> 01:08:34.079
<v Speaker 2>work stoppage happened the third century bceves in the mid

1101
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:38.760
<v Speaker 2>two thousands or early or late two thousand, sorry in Egypt,

1102
01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:41.159
<v Speaker 2>the people were like, you're not paying us enough, we

1103
01:08:41.159 --> 01:08:44.960
<v Speaker 2>don't have enough grain, and and and the government had,

1104
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:46.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, they had to deal with that. And I

1105
01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:50.720
<v Speaker 2>mean that is it's the same thing. They're not gonna

1106
01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:54.199
<v Speaker 2>call it. They're not calling for a quote unquote union.

1107
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:57.960
<v Speaker 2>They're not calling for a guild or anything like that,

1108
01:08:58.199 --> 01:09:02.039
<v Speaker 2>but they are saying like, hey man, fuck you pay me,

1109
01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:05.840
<v Speaker 2>like hey you fuck you treat me right like you know,

1110
01:09:05.960 --> 01:09:09.039
<v Speaker 2>it's the same, treat me like I treat me like

1111
01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:12.600
<v Speaker 2>I like, like you know, like I want to be treated,

1112
01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:14.880
<v Speaker 2>you know. And I mean the thing about Christianity is

1113
01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:20.079
<v Speaker 2>like I don't even if like there was a revolutionary

1114
01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:23.640
<v Speaker 2>undercurrent of Christianity, but every time it comes to the surface,

1115
01:09:24.359 --> 01:09:30.000
<v Speaker 2>it gets beaten back down with force. Like the revolutionary

1116
01:09:30.079 --> 01:09:34.399
<v Speaker 2>undercurrent that it had of like changing the status of

1117
01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:40.560
<v Speaker 2>slaves and overthrowing things was under was devalued and underplayed

1118
01:09:40.600 --> 01:09:43.399
<v Speaker 2>heavily once it became the religion of the Roman Empire.

1119
01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:46.439
<v Speaker 2>And then of course in the fifteen hundreds, when the

1120
01:09:46.640 --> 01:09:49.920
<v Speaker 2>German peasants revolted because they thought it meant that they

1121
01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:51.600
<v Speaker 2>were going to get to be equal.

1122
01:09:51.319 --> 01:09:56.760
<v Speaker 1>To the uh, Luther put them in their place.

1123
01:09:58.000 --> 01:10:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Luther allied with the Catholic and the nobility again to

1124
01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:05.039
<v Speaker 2>put to have them put down, and I mean they

1125
01:10:05.039 --> 01:10:09.520
<v Speaker 2>were brutally put down. So like, I yeah, I don't

1126
01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:11.520
<v Speaker 2>see it, but thank you.

1127
01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:13.479
<v Speaker 1>Uh, interesting question.

1128
01:10:13.800 --> 01:10:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a great question. And I mean I don't

1129
01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:18.800
<v Speaker 2>I've never heard that idea, so it is thought provoking

1130
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:22.079
<v Speaker 2>to like think about, like how that would come up.

1131
01:10:22.119 --> 01:10:25.840
<v Speaker 2>But I just don't. I don't think either of us

1132
01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:31.399
<v Speaker 2>see it because in the material worldview, it doesn't. I don't.

1133
01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:33.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's born out by history, even if

1134
01:10:33.279 --> 01:10:35.239
<v Speaker 2>you take Marxism out of the equation. I don't think

1135
01:10:35.239 --> 01:10:37.239
<v Speaker 2>it's born out by history because I think the same

1136
01:10:37.279 --> 01:10:43.000
<v Speaker 2>ideas were still present in uh nascent or uh like uh,

1137
01:10:43.439 --> 01:10:47.560
<v Speaker 2>you know pro protein forms. Excuse me, there we go.

1138
01:10:48.199 --> 01:10:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I think it's it's it's a little bit global,

1139
01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:57.119
<v Speaker 1>northern and its sensibilities. Yeah that yeah, I think that

1140
01:10:57.119 --> 01:10:58.000
<v Speaker 1>that's fair to say.

1141
01:10:58.439 --> 01:11:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that doesn't mean that, uh, people who are Christian

1142
01:11:02.600 --> 01:11:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Millinerians who believe in Christianity cannot be revolutionaries. Far from it.

1143
01:11:08.239 --> 01:11:12.439
<v Speaker 2>But uh, there there are people. There are revolutionaries right

1144
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:15.560
<v Speaker 2>now who are who are fighting. There are Christians right

1145
01:11:15.560 --> 01:11:19.000
<v Speaker 2>now in Gaza who are who are being uh massacred

1146
01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:25.279
<v Speaker 2>alongside their Muslim and even uh Jewish comrades and uh

1147
01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:33.720
<v Speaker 2>and and you know, so yeah, it's folks. I don't think.

1148
01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:37.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't think revolution is that shallow, and I definitely

1149
01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:41.319
<v Speaker 2>don't think uh Christianity is the one that came up

1150
01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:43.960
<v Speaker 2>with it given all of the stuff that predates that.

1151
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:49.520
<v Speaker 2>And uh yeah, but at the same time, it's always

1152
01:11:49.520 --> 01:11:51.399
<v Speaker 2>cool to talk about this stuff so we can kind

1153
01:11:51.399 --> 01:11:54.880
<v Speaker 2>of bounce it around and and see what's going on.

1154
01:11:55.119 --> 01:11:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1155
01:11:55.319 --> 01:11:58.920
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, a weed presumer equals in ikebu. Thank you

1156
01:11:59.359 --> 01:12:03.560
<v Speaker 2>very much for or the thought provooking question that's going

1157
01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:08.920
<v Speaker 2>to do it for us today. Again, Please do subscribe

1158
01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:12.000
<v Speaker 2>to the Patreon it helps keep the show going. Patreon

1159
01:12:12.039 --> 01:12:16.880
<v Speaker 2>dot com, slash wnstpod eleanor what's going on with you?

1160
01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, mostly I'm just into Amsterdam, aren't I I think? Yeah,

1161
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:24.119
<v Speaker 1>if you haven't gone to check me out over on

1162
01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:28.479
<v Speaker 1>Canceling Daddy yet. Please do that because that'll be good

1163
01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:33.119
<v Speaker 1>as per usual. Really, mostly the book madness is upon me,

1164
01:12:33.319 --> 01:12:35.039
<v Speaker 1>and that's the later thing that's going on with me.

1165
01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:38.720
<v Speaker 1>When I do something else, I will absolutely let all

1166
01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:39.439
<v Speaker 1>you honeys know.

1167
01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Yep, you can find me on the usual places. Luca

1168
01:12:43.239 --> 01:12:46.520
<v Speaker 2>is amazing, You can find me people's history of the

1169
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:49.199
<v Speaker 2>Old Republic if you want to hear me up about

1170
01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:51.119
<v Speaker 2>Star Wars from Lake I don't know, six years ago

1171
01:12:51.199 --> 01:13:00.720
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, or even eight years ago. No, anyway, anyway, y'all,

1172
01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:02.319
<v Speaker 2>thank you all very much for listening. We'll see you

1173
01:13:02.399 --> 01:13:02.840
<v Speaker 2>next time.

1174
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Keep it so sloppy, yeah,