Speaker 1: This is pod Popular Podcast for the People, the Great
Speaker 1: Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 2: The Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debase.
Speaker 3: Hi, get everyone, It's Brian Howie. Welcome to The Great
Speaker 3: Love Debate, the world's number one dating and relationship podcast
Speaker 3: since twenty fifteen. We are here in the lovely studios
Speaker 3: of Pod Popular Podcasts for the People. We're at the
Speaker 3: one in Scottsdale, which I haven't been here in a while.
Speaker 4: We are in the.
Speaker 3: Heart of the Scott's dazzle here in old town. And
Speaker 3: if you check the etymology of the word Scottsdale, do
Speaker 3: you know what it translates to bottomless mimosis.
Speaker 4: That's what scotts Stale means.
Speaker 3: Fun fact for you kids kicking off. Thanks heer great
Speaker 3: Love listeners. Somebody the other day, for like the millionth time,
Speaker 3: said you call yourself a dating expert, and I said, no,
Speaker 3: I never have, I never will, I most certainly do not.
Speaker 3: There is no such thing as a dating expert. I
Speaker 3: have been called a dating influencer. I have been called
Speaker 3: the dating influencer, and I like that, Moniker, because what
Speaker 3: we do around here is we try to push the
Speaker 3: conversation and raise the questions, sometimes in ways and places
Speaker 3: that we all don't really want to go. So we're
Speaker 3: definitely not offering you expertise. I'm not sure we're even
Speaker 3: really offering you advice. We are giving you opinion, and
Speaker 3: I'm not just giving you my opinion. We are giving
Speaker 3: you the collective opinion of most of the men and
Speaker 3: women around the world, because we have heard from a
Speaker 3: whole lot of them, more than probably anyone else ever has.
Speaker 3: And so we sprinkle a little paprika on it, and
Speaker 3: we stick in the oven for a bit, and then
Speaker 3: we serve it up hot and fresh and spicy to you.
Speaker 3: So do with this dish today, whatever you choose. I
Speaker 3: did an episode called Too Much and Never Enough, which
Speaker 3: touched on the give and take of a relationship and
Speaker 3: how we can properly balance and hopefully thread the needle
Speaker 3: on what you need and what you can give and
Speaker 3: hope to get.
Speaker 4: And want to have with your boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, whatever.
Speaker 3: And we did get a lot of feedback on that,
Speaker 3: and some was good and some was bad, and some
Speaker 3: was puzzled, and we got a whole lot of questions.
Speaker 3: And one of the questions that came up a lot.
Speaker 3: A bunch was around the concept of enough, which is
Speaker 3: a word, and which is something that I've dove into
Speaker 3: a few times in the past. So I did give
Speaker 3: the questions some thought and why it is important and
Speaker 3: how it manifests.
Speaker 4: Itself in a relationship.
Speaker 3: Which is why you get just me today, because I
Speaker 3: kind of want to go off on a little bit
Speaker 3: of a tangent about this. You can call it a
Speaker 3: rant if you want, but I want to talk about
Speaker 3: enough and some other things. So, as we said on
Speaker 3: the last episode, words are important, and feeling them and
Speaker 3: saying them and hearing them matters. And sometimes relationships can
Speaker 3: start off with one word Hi, Yes, maybe all those
Speaker 3: are good, those are all positive, and those are all hopeful.
Speaker 3: And sometimes a relationship can start or evolve off two
Speaker 3: words I do, I believe we can?
Speaker 4: Yes, please? Why not?
Speaker 3: And those are all good? And sometimes and dreams have
Speaker 3: been written about three words. I love you, I got you, me,
Speaker 3: and you. Let's do this three words. But today I
Speaker 3: want to focus on or at least get things started
Speaker 3: with four words, and four words that can determine the
Speaker 3: fate of the rest of your life, or at least
Speaker 3: your relationship and the outcome of it as much as
Speaker 3: any other. It can termine your future partnership, and it
Speaker 3: can determine the path of it all and which way
Speaker 3: you want to go with your partner and how long
Speaker 3: it will last. And I'm probably thinking you guys are
Speaker 3: probably thinking this is like wheel of fortune, And I'm
Speaker 3: asking you to guess the phrase I'm not, I'm not,
Speaker 3: and no. The four words are not will you marry me?
Speaker 3: Although those are nice and they are important, and those
Speaker 3: are good four words, and hopefully when you say, you
Speaker 3: mean it and you want it, and hope it's a
Speaker 3: yes and a forever and happily ever after. But this
Speaker 3: show isn't about those four words. What I want to
Speaker 3: talk about is these four words. I have had enough.
Speaker 3: I have had enough enough of this, enough of you,
Speaker 3: enough of us. And when you say that and you
Speaker 3: believe it, it means you've drawn a line in the sand,
Speaker 3: and nothing about this situation will continue. I don't like
Speaker 3: the way this is going, I don't like the way
Speaker 3: this makes me feel. I don't like the way you
Speaker 3: make me feel. I want this to end or change
Speaker 3: or whatever. But I do not want this enough, which
Speaker 3: is the flip side of the enough we've talked about
Speaker 3: before on the last podcast. On the podcast I referenced previously,
Speaker 3: it is not a you know, satisfied sufficient enough? Would
Speaker 3: you like another piece of pie?
Speaker 4: God? No, I can barely walk. I've had enough. It's
Speaker 4: not that it's not good enough. It's not pie.
Speaker 3: It's not I'm getting enough of what I need and
Speaker 3: enough of what I want enough from this relationship. It
Speaker 3: is I have had enough of this. I don't want
Speaker 3: it anymore. I won't take it anymore, and I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna be with you anymore. And you say, well, Brian
Speaker 3: Christopher Howie, you are always talking about happiness and hope
Speaker 3: and possibilities and rainbows around here. What is this you
Speaker 3: are throwing in this kettle, tossing in the stew.
Speaker 4: I'm saying it's.
Speaker 3: Important because it's where you can begin again. And when
Speaker 3: you say that, or when you think it, it's really
Speaker 3: when you can start to turn the page and find
Speaker 3: what you want and who you want it with. You
Speaker 3: find the life you want, the love you want. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to put up with that anymore. Enough, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to live like this anymore. Enough, I don't
Speaker 3: want to feel this way again enough, But how do
Speaker 3: you know when that is? And how do you know
Speaker 3: what the last straw is? If you keep finding new straws,
Speaker 3: you know where you can't find new straws anymore.
Speaker 4: Starbucks. It's no more straws or straws at Starbucks.
Speaker 3: But anyway, you keep letting out a little more rope
Speaker 3: and a little longer leash and whatever metaphor you want
Speaker 3: to use to say I can take more, and I
Speaker 3: can keep going and this isn't going to break me. Well,
Speaker 3: you keep doing that, and you have not only I
Speaker 3: don't know, permanently stretched out the sweater, but you can
Speaker 3: never get it to fit the way you want it to.
Speaker 3: I just give you a shitload of mixed metaphors there,
Speaker 3: but I think you get it enough. No more of this,
Speaker 3: no more of us. The only way you're ever going
Speaker 3: to get into the right relationship is to get out
Speaker 3: of the wrong one, which is often even harder to do.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's sometimes harder to rid yourself of the
Speaker 3: wrong one than to find the right one, which is
Speaker 3: crazy because we always talk about how hard it is
Speaker 3: to find the right one, But you waste time and
Speaker 3: energy and effort and emotion until you're just broken, and
Speaker 3: even leaving doesn't always satisfy you because you're so glazed
Speaker 3: and buried under it all that you can't even fathom
Speaker 3: starting again with someone else. So the damage of that
Speaker 3: relationship tumbles forward into the new one in every.
Speaker 4: Aspect of your life.
Speaker 3: And then suddenly five years go by when you're sort
Speaker 3: of thinking about dating again or trying someone else, anyone else,
Speaker 3: but you have to and you have to try, and
Speaker 3: you need to breathe, and you just have to say
Speaker 3: this won't work for me. I have had enough. But again,
Speaker 3: it's hard to know when that is. So let me
Speaker 3: go back a bit into the time before enough and
Speaker 3: explain how to find I don't know the temporary from
Speaker 3: the permanent, if that makes sense. Sort of the temporarily
Speaker 3: I have enough and we can change and work through
Speaker 3: it versus the permanent. This complete thing is done, so
Speaker 3: I want to get into that. Hopefully you haven't had
Speaker 3: enough of me or this, and you will stick with
Speaker 3: me after the break, because we're going to dive back
Speaker 3: into that. It's a little complicated, we're gonna get back
Speaker 3: into it right after this, and we are back, So
Speaker 3: let's go back, not quite to the beginning, but maybe
Speaker 3: too a few months into the relationship.
Speaker 4: Don't want to say the midpoint because you probably skew.
Speaker 3: You know fairly soon that that three to six month
Speaker 3: make or break time in relationship where things are going
Speaker 3: okay but they aren't great and something's a little off
Speaker 3: and you want to write it out and see where
Speaker 3: it goes. But it's not quite one of those I'm
Speaker 3: feeling it in my gut things, especially that women say,
Speaker 3: don't always trust that you know or should do my
Speaker 3: gut is always right.
Speaker 4: No, it's not.
Speaker 3: If your gut was always right, you would never have
Speaker 3: gone out with any of these people. Sometimes as it's
Speaker 3: an indigestion or revisionist history or deja vu, so anyway,
Speaker 3: it's it's just you're in this point in relationship where
Speaker 3: you're like, I don't understand them or what we're doing
Speaker 3: and where we're going, and you're thinking, are we even
Speaker 3: remotely on the same page? And that's hard in any
Speaker 3: relationship because you have two people, and you have two histories,
Speaker 3: and you have two viewpoints and two sets of emotions
Speaker 3: and two life experiences, two very big sets of baggage
Speaker 3: that come along with that, and we're all bringing that
Speaker 3: together and try and merge that. You're trying to match
Speaker 3: your your baggage up, trying to match your luggage up,
Speaker 3: which is even hard to do when you go on
Speaker 3: a vacation. And a lot of times emotion, good or
Speaker 3: bad comes with secondary reactions. And anybody, any of you
Speaker 3: guys who've taken a college psychology course or googled around
Speaker 3: you've googled around the interwebs about college stuff, knows that
Speaker 3: there's primary emotions and there are secondary emotions, and the
Speaker 3: primary ones, which generally are accepted as fear, sadness, interest,
Speaker 3: Anger Joy discussed shame and surprise. Is that eight one two, fear, sadness,
Speaker 3: interest Anger Joy discussed shame and surprise.
Speaker 4: That's eight.
Speaker 3: So some can quibble with that, and they're like, no
Speaker 3: either six, No, there's nine.
Speaker 4: We're gonna go with eight.
Speaker 3: You heard me a couple episodes to talk about Pluto's
Speaker 3: not a planet anymore. Pluto's a fucking planet. I'll die
Speaker 3: on that hill. So there's eight primary emotions. Of those eight,
Speaker 3: if you break them down, five are generally processed by
Speaker 3: our brain as threats, as bad things, sadness, fear, anger, disgust.
Speaker 4: And shame.
Speaker 3: So five to the eight even a sixth surprise that
Speaker 3: can be a bad That could be a bad thing too.
Speaker 3: A bear jumps out surprise fucking threat sucks. So it's
Speaker 3: like five and a half of the eight are not
Speaker 3: necessarily good things of the way we're fundamentally wired.
Speaker 4: That's not good.
Speaker 3: So that leaves us with two and a half things
Speaker 3: that sort of have to overcome and bail out the
Speaker 3: five and a half that don't.
Speaker 4: Joy which is on that list. Joy is good.
Speaker 3: Interest is good because it piques your curiosity. Those are
Speaker 3: the possibilities. Joy and interest are the possibilities. That's where
Speaker 3: the hope lies. And surprise gets a half because sometimes
Speaker 3: it's a present, or a party or or a ring surprise.
Speaker 3: But mostly our emotions, all of our emotions are our
Speaker 3: default is wired at best on guard and at worst
Speaker 3: fucking basket cases.
Speaker 4: Okay, you know.
Speaker 3: We're all sort of wired in a weird way that
Speaker 3: is like riddled with angst. And you say, wait, now
Speaker 3: you're missing some What about jealousy, what about guilt? What
Speaker 3: about love? Well, those are secondary things. Jealousy comes usually
Speaker 3: from a deep rooted place of anger. Why do they
Speaker 3: have it.
Speaker 4: When I don't. Why is it always her? Why can't
Speaker 4: it be me?
Speaker 3: And that might start when you're four years old and
Speaker 3: your sister got the bigger room. You know, I don't know,
Speaker 3: but it comes from somewhere else. That leads to jealousy
Speaker 3: it's them, not me. And guilt it usually comes from shame.
Speaker 3: I didn't feel worthy, I don't deserve this, I'm not
Speaker 3: good enough.
Speaker 4: I wish I didn't do that. Why did that happen?
Speaker 4: Not good? None of those are good.
Speaker 3: So then you're like, well, let's talk about love. Love
Speaker 3: is a fundamental feeling or a primary one, and you're like,
Speaker 3: and it's really not. And love is the hardest defined
Speaker 3: because it's subjective and it's usually elusive unless you're, you know,
Speaker 3: throwing around like I love potato chips, you know, But
Speaker 3: if you're really getting to the essence of what love is,
Speaker 3: it's hard. So you feel safe when you love, feel
Speaker 3: safe in the situation and hopefully in the environment and
Speaker 3: preferbly with the person. And safe is what is absent
Speaker 3: about most of those five and a half bad things
Speaker 3: that I talked about. Love, if it's done right, it
Speaker 3: won't make you angry. And love has few prizes. It's
Speaker 3: steady and love doesn't mean jealousy, and love won't bring
Speaker 3: you disgust or shame or sadness again hopefully, And you're like, Jesus,
Speaker 3: we have to take two people and try to analyze
Speaker 3: sixteen emotions between us, and a total of eleven of
Speaker 3: those are bad, five and a half from each. He
Speaker 3: was eleven, o's are bad. No wonder we don't ever
Speaker 3: get together or it's rarely right. I don't understand how
Speaker 3: this can work, and you know, you can look at
Speaker 3: it as a good thing. We rarely get together or
Speaker 3: it's really right, because when you do then it means something.
Speaker 3: But you're like, I don't understand how any of this
Speaker 3: can work. But it does start there, and you're like,
Speaker 3: where did he go with all this? Because he talked
Speaker 3: about enough. This is before you get to enough, and
Speaker 3: this is how you avoid the downside of enough. You
Speaker 3: start with do I understand? And I bring up this
Speaker 3: psychology stuff and the knee jerk in reaction and relationship
Speaker 3: when it comes to our partner is to go down
Speaker 3: that road and try and analyze them. I'm gonna figure
Speaker 3: this out. I want to know what I'm dealing with here,
Speaker 3: and that's good and that's fine, and that's normal. But
Speaker 3: that's not your job, and that's not necessarily healthy. You're
Speaker 3: not a shrink and you shouldn't play shrink on your partner.
Speaker 3: It's just not who you are, nor should you be.
Speaker 3: What you are trying to do, or what you should
Speaker 3: be trying to do, is understand, understand them, learn them,
Speaker 3: know them so long before you go down that road
Speaker 3: and you get to enough, you need to know and
Speaker 3: learn and understand what they do and like and need
Speaker 3: and what are their triggers. We have enough trouble understanding
Speaker 3: our own triggers. It's important to try and figure out
Speaker 3: theirs too. Why do they raise their voice sometimes? Do
Speaker 3: they drink so much? Why do they fail to get
Speaker 3: out of bed on time? Why do they get so jealous?
Speaker 3: So you have to try and again, not figure out,
Speaker 3: but understand what causes their fear. And it's not easy
Speaker 3: to get at this stuff because the person you're trying
Speaker 3: to get it from doesn't know most of the time either.
Speaker 3: Most people have never done the deep work or found
Speaker 3: the right outlet or mechanism.
Speaker 4: To dig all this shit up because it's scary shit.
Speaker 3: You know is the easy answer and the most likely answer.
Speaker 3: Does it all come from childhood? Sure, of course probably,
Speaker 3: But asking somebody where they grew up on a first
Speaker 3: date or what they did for fun, you know that
Speaker 3: rarely answers your questions about what went on in the
Speaker 3: you know, in their childhood that caused them to get
Speaker 3: to this point. But asking the questions that require you
Speaker 3: or them to go to the dark places that they're
Speaker 3: trying to probably escape, that's no job for amateurs. And
Speaker 3: we're all sort of amateurs trying to figure this stuff out.
Speaker 3: So you know, I know you're listening to this and
Speaker 3: you're like, so, wait, are you telling us to break
Speaker 3: up or stay together? And I'm like, I'm telling you
Speaker 3: you need to take a look to try and understand
Speaker 3: all of it, all three elements you, them and the
Speaker 3: relationship and know when to stay in it. And you
Speaker 3: got to know or at least try and figure out
Speaker 3: when it's worth working towards and most importantly no when
Speaker 3: to pull the choote and get out, know when you
Speaker 3: have had enough, Because you can't make someone feel a
Speaker 3: certain way or do a certain thing, but you can
Speaker 3: try to understand why they feel a certain way. Or
Speaker 3: do a certain thing. You're just trying to understand. So
Speaker 3: what's the answer? And again, no expert, I'm not sure
Speaker 3: I have the answer, but I think before it gets
Speaker 3: to enough, you have to ask the questions. So you,
Speaker 3: as their partner and as half of the relationship, you
Speaker 3: have to make them feel safe enough and judgment free
Speaker 3: enough and liberated enough with you to go down there
Speaker 3: to you know, take their hand and go down the
Speaker 3: rabbit hole to find out what it is they're lacking
Speaker 3: or needing that prevents them from giving you what you
Speaker 3: are wanting and needing. And you can say, well, if
Speaker 3: this relationship ever gets to the point where I've had enough,
Speaker 3: well you know enough is enough and there was never
Speaker 3: point in the first place. And that might be true too,
Speaker 3: but I'm trying to stop it from getting there. If
Speaker 3: it gets there, oh well say the words pack the bags,
Speaker 3: hit the road, onto the next But what can you
Speaker 3: do before enough? So don't ask them how I can
Speaker 3: help ask how stuff makes them feel, because usually the
Speaker 3: feeling will be one of those secondary emotions remorse, revenge, resentment,
Speaker 3: even relief. What is their outlet and why is that?
Speaker 3: Why do they do this or why do they say
Speaker 3: that or why do they feel this.
Speaker 4: When that happens.
Speaker 3: And that's about just curiosity and trying to understand what
Speaker 3: you're dealing with long before you get to the point
Speaker 3: where you're like, that's it. Check please, I'm out enough.
Speaker 3: So I produce a lot of podcasts for people besides
Speaker 3: this one.
Speaker 4: I don't even produce this one. I don't produce my own,
Speaker 4: but I produce others for people those who can't teach.
Speaker 3: And one thing I always tell the podcasters is that
Speaker 3: a great podcast comes from the intersection of passion and curiosity.
Speaker 3: It is It is rarely information that drives a good podcast.
Speaker 3: The information comes from those two things. The passion, the
Speaker 3: curiosity have a baby, and from that comes the information
Speaker 3: and the information that you want to get from your
Speaker 3: partner and out of the relationship is exactly the same.
Speaker 3: Do I want it to work? Do I care enough
Speaker 3: about them? Do I care enough about us?
Speaker 4: I do? I? Do I do?
Speaker 3: That's the passion the curiosity part. It's how can I
Speaker 3: learn them? How can we heal and be in a
Speaker 3: healthy place? How can I serve them? How can they
Speaker 3: serve me? And how can we best together serve this
Speaker 3: this thing we have the things we want. And we've
Speaker 3: done so many episodes about the importance of all of this,
Speaker 3: trying to find out the where why how? So you
Speaker 3: kind of have to start with asking all these things
Speaker 3: of yourself before you were in a relationship, while you're
Speaker 3: in it, and after you were in it, Why did
Speaker 3: I think that? How come I acted this way? What
Speaker 3: do I do in this situation?
Speaker 4: And that?
Speaker 3: So everything you want to know of your partner is
Speaker 3: also everything you want to know of yourself. So it
Speaker 3: takes a little bit of self scouting and analysis here,
Speaker 3: and you need to know these things. You have to
Speaker 3: understand you before you understand them. I understand myself way
Speaker 3: better than I did fifteen years ago. Part of that
Speaker 3: was the help of the process of asking a lot
Speaker 3: of questions of myself and others.
Speaker 4: Part of that was some therapy.
Speaker 3: But does that make me a complete product? No, but
Speaker 3: I understand there's work to do, and even that probably
Speaker 3: of yourself. When you ask these questions and you try
Speaker 3: to understand yourself, you're going to lead to I have
Speaker 3: had enough of my behavior of making these choices, of
Speaker 3: missing out on opportunities because of this and that and
Speaker 3: the other, and mostly I have had enough of being unhappy.
Speaker 3: I have had enough of being alone. What causes me
Speaker 3: to feel this way? Why is the same thinking happening?
Speaker 3: Why is my reaction always the same? On and on
Speaker 3: and on. So when you do that, and you go
Speaker 3: down that road and you ask the questions and you
Speaker 3: get help with that, and you do all the work,
Speaker 3: then you can bring it to your partner and to
Speaker 3: the relationship you are either in or want to be.
Speaker 3: So to take this circuitous route back to where we started,
Speaker 3: I have had enough. Those words are important, but those
Speaker 3: words start with you. So you have to make the
Speaker 3: changes for you, and you have to decide what is
Speaker 3: right and missing and desired for you by you, and
Speaker 3: then move it to them and then bring it into
Speaker 3: this relationship. Can I get the answers? Will they make
Speaker 3: the changes? Do they even want to? And then you
Speaker 3: kind of get to the point where you're like, where
Speaker 3: can we go? And do really really want to go there?
Speaker 3: And if not, then all the questions and the conversations
Speaker 3: and the answers you know that they're either fulfilling and
Speaker 3: they're healing, or you have your final solution. Four words,
Speaker 3: I have had enough. So are there some mixed messages
Speaker 3: in this and you're like, is that good or bad?
Speaker 3: Maybe I think we give up on the good relationships
Speaker 3: too quick and we stay too long in the bad ones.
Speaker 3: So you know, the answer is sort of in there somewhere.
Speaker 3: You got to fight through the ick sometimes to get
Speaker 3: where you want to go, and sometimes there's too much
Speaker 3: ick and you got to go somewhere else. And sometimes
Speaker 3: it's hard to tell which is which. And that's the
Speaker 3: point of this, all of this, what I'm talking about
Speaker 3: today and what I talk about all the time, is
Speaker 3: to try and understand yourself, them, me, this podcast, love
Speaker 3: the universe, and you know what we ultimately need enough of.
Speaker 3: So did I just end that on a preposition English major?
Speaker 4: Goddamn right? I did.
Speaker 3: Great Love Debate at gmail dot com. If you have questions, thoughts,
Speaker 3: or you just want to say, what the fuck did
Speaker 3: he just talk about? Send that along to me. Most importantly,
Speaker 3: as always, like, share, follow, and please review this podcast.
Speaker 3: Your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem because,
Speaker 3: as always at The Great Love Debate, we never stop
Speaker 3: making love.
Speaker 4: See you next time.
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